Who was ever under the the impression that all rail lines are supposed to help all people?? Not many people from Long Island use LIRR to go to JFK either. The vast majority drive even though every line aside from P. Washington goes through there. This is about midtown. Port Washington goes to Penn and will go to Grand Central in a few years.
1
I guess interviewing that "lifelong resident of Queens" was supposed to suffice for actual input from Queens residents on this. Queens residents are, by and large, not a globetrotting bunch. Most in Queens despise your airport too, but not because of delays, inconveniences, poor amenities or traffic.
Some clarity here on what "redesigning the runways" means, which was alluded to in the same Cuomo speech yesterday: it means extending the runways to allow for A380's into LaGuardia. What that also means is the end of eastern Queens as place to live. NextGen, Airspace Redesign and this aggressive expansion of the aviation industry will effectively cede large swaths of land to the airports. It will end areas that were livable and desirable places to live for decades.
Additionally, the FAA and airlines want to reduce the wake turbulence separation of planes on the same route. They would reduce wake turbulence separations from 5 miles down to 2.5 miles (that's about 2 seconds for a pilot to make a decision, ya know, if something goes wrong).
All this could have been avoided with some long term planning. Now the airports want to expand, they don't have the land to do it, so they'll just take it. And they are hellbent on cramming every open patch of air with a plane.
So what happens during the next aviation industry expansion twenty years from now? We just run the planes in 1,000 foot layers all the way out to Suffolk?
Some clarity here on what "redesigning the runways" means, which was alluded to in the same Cuomo speech yesterday: it means extending the runways to allow for A380's into LaGuardia. What that also means is the end of eastern Queens as place to live. NextGen, Airspace Redesign and this aggressive expansion of the aviation industry will effectively cede large swaths of land to the airports. It will end areas that were livable and desirable places to live for decades.
Additionally, the FAA and airlines want to reduce the wake turbulence separation of planes on the same route. They would reduce wake turbulence separations from 5 miles down to 2.5 miles (that's about 2 seconds for a pilot to make a decision, ya know, if something goes wrong).
All this could have been avoided with some long term planning. Now the airports want to expand, they don't have the land to do it, so they'll just take it. And they are hellbent on cramming every open patch of air with a plane.
So what happens during the next aviation industry expansion twenty years from now? We just run the planes in 1,000 foot layers all the way out to Suffolk?
It is ironic that the reporter refers to this idea as "an ambitious, Robert Moses-style proposal". Readers of The Power Broker by Robert Caro will know that it was Robert Moses who steadfastly refused to link either LaGuardia or JFK (then Idlewild) to mass transit.
1
Also Robert Moses bulldozed through the heart of the Bronx and didn't care what anyone thought. That would be akin to doing the same to Astoria and Jackson Heights - which Cuomo is sensibly NOT doing.
Just a thought, why not have the Air-Train leave from Astoria Blvd (N,Q Train) and go along the Grand Central Parkway. Seems odd to me that I would need to take a 45 minute train ride to Flushing and then back to LGA.
A lot of people must have played Sim City who are writing these comments. East Side Access is a perfect example of a project that seemed perfect - only to be many years late and many billions over budget. In reality these projects are never easy - so the "pie in the sky" ideas don't help.
A better link would be to branch off the underutilized Amtrak route where it curves at Northern Boulevard and have a straight run along the BQE through Bulova. Then when the East Side Access is finished, riders could get to LGA on one train from either Penn Station or Grand Central.
6
Lots of engineers and planners here. Good for Gov. Cuomo for starting the process. This plan minimizes disruption to the neighborhoods around the so-called airport, the worst designed and managed major airport I've ever used. If you want to see the disruption caused by subway extensions, walk or drive along Second Avenue in Manhattan. Horrible. Using the existing right of way of the Grand Central Parkway for an air-train is the way to go. For those concerned about hauling your bags through several transfers, that's what travelers do. Suck it up, folks.
1
A few years ago "they"--the powers that be--shut down a little-used water taxi from the East River in the lower 30s to the Marine Terminal at LaGuardia. This could be revived, upgraded at both ends, and sold as yet another alternative to avoid the expected crowding on the "7" train if the elevated rail link comes to fruition. The water taxi was a relaxing way to get to the airport (no gridlock), although first getting that far east in Manhattan probably required a cab ride, and from the Marine Terminal, a shuttle bus then made stops to the various airlines. The point is simply this: we are not using our waterways wisely. A water taxi to LaGuardia is not a new idea, just one that the powers that be abandoned and now must revive with fresh imagination.
3
This plan was discussed decades ago when I was in college (studying urban planning). It didn't work then, and I still don't think it would. The direct Q70 bus from Woodside and Jackson Heights that started about 6 moths ago was a brilliant move and didn't cost much to implement.
2
This is a train to run fans from LGA to CitiField, not travelers to the city. It's short-sighted and will not be utilized effectively.
Infrastructure planning in New York is a hodgepodge of individual fiefdoms without any clear concept. What follows is an incomplete listing of short-sightedness over the last 20 years.
Newark Airport:
The PATH train should have been extended all the way to the airport, to run underground the terminals. Since the Port Authority actually owns the darn thing, that shouldn't have been such a big problem.
JFK Airport and the WTC Path:
A vision for Ground Zero would have been to have the PATH link up with the A/C tunnels and run trains from downtown to both JFK and EWR. Instead, a $4 billion dollar terminal for a commuter train that is run by an agency founded to run the region's ports.
Rail:
Three regional train services run in and out of New York City. Why can't we have LIRR trains run through to Trenton, to Morristown, etc. NJ transit run to Stamford. I'm sure there are technical challenges to overcome (power supply, etc) but the three separate areas at Penn Station are an absolute joke.
Infrastructure planning in New York is a hodgepodge of individual fiefdoms without any clear concept. What follows is an incomplete listing of short-sightedness over the last 20 years.
Newark Airport:
The PATH train should have been extended all the way to the airport, to run underground the terminals. Since the Port Authority actually owns the darn thing, that shouldn't have been such a big problem.
JFK Airport and the WTC Path:
A vision for Ground Zero would have been to have the PATH link up with the A/C tunnels and run trains from downtown to both JFK and EWR. Instead, a $4 billion dollar terminal for a commuter train that is run by an agency founded to run the region's ports.
Rail:
Three regional train services run in and out of New York City. Why can't we have LIRR trains run through to Trenton, to Morristown, etc. NJ transit run to Stamford. I'm sure there are technical challenges to overcome (power supply, etc) but the three separate areas at Penn Station are an absolute joke.
3
Of course there should be a train to LaGuardia, but I think that it would be much better if they run a train from the center of the city directly into the airport, like any normal, modern city would. In that case it would be used by just about everybody. It is the difference between being an afterthought and using the default way to get to the airport. This should be done right or not done at all.
4
Do you not realize how much more that would cost? Do you think it's not done because they just want to be "mean"?
It was attempted from Lower Manhattan to JFK but the costs killed the idea.
It was attempted from Lower Manhattan to JFK but the costs killed the idea.
1
The concept is a no-brainer.....the key factor is the political will and muscle to make it happen.
2
And the Wilpon family may come out ahead on this deal, due to the fact they and others control land use (formerly public parks) around the proposed Air Train terminal at Willets Point - Mets? The family twice involved in Ponzi schemes? The family that has ruined New York (N.L.) baseball for a generation? Please.
1
The larger issue, which no one is addressing, is that LaGuardia should be phased out for long trips, certainly those over 800 miles. There are currently too many take-offs and landings over very densely populated areas. The noise and pollution are making formerly attractive areas of the City and nearby suburbs hard to bear. The availability of new transportation to LaGuardia will make a bad situation even worse. Best to think about a new airport further from the City center but with state of the art ground transportation.
3
Nicole Gelinas makes a valid point. It would be nice to know how and who pays for this. Diverting the cab and bus traffic from La Guardia Airport will add convenience, but the most powerful argument is folding in this initiative with the long overdue renovation and expansion of that facility. That funding should encompass the train line and enhancements to the Jackson Station including possible 'redcap' type service for handling bags, and higher anti-terrorist security. Considering the increase in Queens' population of international travelers, particularly from Asia and Africa, the additional revenue generated should support more hotels and taxes generated. But, it would seem prudent to have these projections available and also have a commitment from the Port Authority to support the cost of this new line, and pay to upgrade track and cars on the G and 7 lines.
1
Why not link a real commuter rail train through sunnyside yards and east side access? There's no reason to build a dinky elevated train...let's have a real commuter air connection like Schipol
The problem with the Air Trains at Newark and JFK is that - more so at Newark - you are beholden to the train schedules. If there is not one coming when your Air Train arrives at Jamaica or the Newark NJT station, you are stuck waiting. And Amtrak won't cross-honor tickets. At least the Jamaica option has the subway.
Building a new Air Train that connects to the busiest, most crowded, and oversubscribed (I saw that below and it's a perfect adjective) subway line is short-sighted. I thought at first the route might have been from Woodside or 74th Ave, which would connect with LIRR or several subway lines. But the reality is that the best and most convenient option would have been the extension of the N train. It would have taken 40 minutes to Times Square if running express.
Also - can someone please explain why it only costs $450 million to build an Air Train yet $1 billion plus to extend the subway?
Building a new Air Train that connects to the busiest, most crowded, and oversubscribed (I saw that below and it's a perfect adjective) subway line is short-sighted. I thought at first the route might have been from Woodside or 74th Ave, which would connect with LIRR or several subway lines. But the reality is that the best and most convenient option would have been the extension of the N train. It would have taken 40 minutes to Times Square if running express.
Also - can someone please explain why it only costs $450 million to build an Air Train yet $1 billion plus to extend the subway?
Underground development costs are far more expensive. Drilling the actual tunnel, for instance, requires renting a specialized (and therefore, expensive) piece of equipment. And those things don't drill very quickly either...
1
Finally. I was shocked that NYC didn't already have this. Cleveland has the Rapid that goes right into the basement of their airport. You get off it, ride the escalator to ticketing, and board your plane. We use to save hundreds of dollars in parking fees every year, and avoid the hassle of driving and traffic. It's great. With NYC traffic, having a subway into the airport is a wonderful idea. Plus, no more expensive taxis, or parking fees.
Atlanta and both Chicago airports have train lines that go straight to the airport from downtown, for the cost of a regular subway ride. Philadelphia's SEPTA Regional Rail and San Francisco's BART are zone-priced and more expensive but still a direct route into the city.
The Newark airport experience is interesting - the train to Newark Penn Station is the same one that runs between the terminals, so when you leave the airport and start rolling across a field you feel like the train got tired of going back and forth all day and ran away.
My concern about any new transit option to LaGuardia, which may already be evident with the AirTrain at JFK - when evaluating the length of the trip, the convenience, and the comfort, do people still think a $65 cab ride from Midtown is better than a $7.50 train ticket?
The Newark airport experience is interesting - the train to Newark Penn Station is the same one that runs between the terminals, so when you leave the airport and start rolling across a field you feel like the train got tired of going back and forth all day and ran away.
My concern about any new transit option to LaGuardia, which may already be evident with the AirTrain at JFK - when evaluating the length of the trip, the convenience, and the comfort, do people still think a $65 cab ride from Midtown is better than a $7.50 train ticket?
3
Mr. Coumo. Get this straight. The best connection is a straight connection. Going east, to go west back to the city is going in circles. Connect NYC to airports direct. JFK link is not great. Why waste money again?
7
Millions of people use the Airtrain JFK (growing each year) - so it seems they don't need perfection to make it worthwhile.
1
Or maybe, they just don't have another option. If you want to take the subway or LIRR, what other choice do you have?
There is a market for riders to and from LGA and the proposed starting point outside of Citifield would also benefit those travelers from LI. Light rail is a great solution and it will find an instantaneous ridership especially those who work at LGA. The previous plan under the Guiliani administration was a terrific plan that proposed extending the Q or V in Astoria direct to LGA but was shot down by the community boards - that would have been the shortest, seamless and practical way to get to LGA from Manhattan in under 30 minutes. I say build it but make sure you keep the dirty crooked WIlpon Family out of the planning.
3
The proposed starting point does not help people coming from LI, as it doesn't connect to the LIRR.
1
Imagine getting on a train in Manhattan at Penn on the West Side or Grand Central on the East Side and getting whisked to LaGuardia in about 20 minutes. This is what you do:
Build a spur off the LIRR Port Washington branch near Citifield to LaGuardia. No special train like the under-utilized Air Train which requires commutational contortions to access, just the regular old one-seat, one-fare LIRR. (Grand Central LIRR access is still under construction so for now service from Penn will do.)
Does it get simpler than this, Guv'nor?
Build a spur off the LIRR Port Washington branch near Citifield to LaGuardia. No special train like the under-utilized Air Train which requires commutational contortions to access, just the regular old one-seat, one-fare LIRR. (Grand Central LIRR access is still under construction so for now service from Penn will do.)
Does it get simpler than this, Guv'nor?
5
I have given this some further thought. We can do the same thing for Kennedy. The LIRR already runs lines that practically skirt JFK east of Jamaica station. Run a spur off off the track that serves those lines to Kennedy like from Laurelton or Rosedale or St. Albans. They already have spurs north and south off that track to serve Far Rockaway, Long Beach, West Hempstead and other places. Do this and you can be at JFK from Manhattan in about 30 minutes, even with stops at Woodside and Jamaica.
As far as that under-utilized Air Train goes, dump it.
As far as that under-utilized Air Train goes, dump it.
1
The real need is for a one-seat ride to Manhattan. Extending the (already elevated) Astoria N/Q train along the Grand Central Parkway would provide what people actually need.
Politicians who take limos everywhere might not grasp the difficulties a Willets Point connection poses. The 7 train is over capacity now. The travel time from Grand Central to Willets Point, then transferring to a mini-train might not beat a cab from midtown.
Extending the subway avoids introducing unique new technology, all MTA workers will be able to run and repair the infrastructure. The larger IND cars are far more suited to be fitted with a baggage rack or two, and are less crowded too. Great start, Governor but please let the planners take over now.
Politicians who take limos everywhere might not grasp the difficulties a Willets Point connection poses. The 7 train is over capacity now. The travel time from Grand Central to Willets Point, then transferring to a mini-train might not beat a cab from midtown.
Extending the subway avoids introducing unique new technology, all MTA workers will be able to run and repair the infrastructure. The larger IND cars are far more suited to be fitted with a baggage rack or two, and are less crowded too. Great start, Governor but please let the planners take over now.
8
Where were you when that proposal what killed by te neighborhoods???? That was proposed back when Guiliani was in power
1
After you get over your pleased surprise that a politician is actually willing to address this question again, you realize what a short-sighted, second-rate idea this is. It would be advantageous to such a small percentage of potential riders that it really isn't worth the money. It just repeats the mistake made with the AirTrain via Jamaica to and from JFK. As a Queens resident, I enjoy using it, but I'm the first to admit it doesn't do much for the other boroughs.
Yes, let's have a train to LGA, but make it one that connects directly to Manhattan, even if it costs much more. It's time to think long term. As many commenters note, a connection to the BMT line, whether via subway somewhere along the R, or elevated from the end of N, makes a lot more sense. If we settle for this inferior, retrograde route, we're essentially letting the NIMBY crowd plan our transit system.
Yes, let's have a train to LGA, but make it one that connects directly to Manhattan, even if it costs much more. It's time to think long term. As many commenters note, a connection to the BMT line, whether via subway somewhere along the R, or elevated from the end of N, makes a lot more sense. If we settle for this inferior, retrograde route, we're essentially letting the NIMBY crowd plan our transit system.
22
Gee - That's wonderful. Tell me - will it be the safe crack 'team' that's working on the Van Wyck Expressway & the Second Avenue Subway ?!?
I'm guessing it's ready by 2050.
I'm guessing it's ready by 2050.
I am disappointed that the Governor does not understand how fundamentally flawed his plan is, especially since he grew up in Queens. Creating another underutilized and overpriced version of the Air Train from Willets Point to LGA is exactly the wrong plan. Several other readers have proposed a number of excellent less costly and more useful alternatives, ranging from increasing utilization of the buses from the Jackson Heights transit hub to extending the N/Q line from Astoria. Even the language that the Governor used during his press conference indicates that he has little experience actually using the subway. In nearly 60 years I have never heard a native New Yorker refer to any of the subway lines as a "route".
2
When will a major consider the need to refurbish LaGuardia itself?
It's one of the worst airports in the USA.
It's one of the worst airports in the USA.
We know the U.S. is in trouble when construction of a single rail line in NYC is considered "bold" and "ambitious." We have been left in the dust in the realm of public transit. The subway system in Shanghai was started in 1993 and already is the largest in the world.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_Metro
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_Metro
6
Hello Andrew,
Please disregard what your large donors want. If you can't figure out how to get a direct, dedicated train with a one seat ride from Grand Central or Penn Station on the LIRR with a spur into LGA, or simply extend a subway line all the way there, then forget it. The Disneyland-style monorail at EWR and even the Airtrain to JFK do not have ridership that significantly changes the ground transport equation in relation to their cost. What will truly give you a legacy is if you can bend the will of the Port Authority and make them cooperate with the MTA at La Guardia. What the Port Authority wants and was able to maintain with the Airtrain is complete control of access to all airports.
Please disregard what your large donors want. If you can't figure out how to get a direct, dedicated train with a one seat ride from Grand Central or Penn Station on the LIRR with a spur into LGA, or simply extend a subway line all the way there, then forget it. The Disneyland-style monorail at EWR and even the Airtrain to JFK do not have ridership that significantly changes the ground transport equation in relation to their cost. What will truly give you a legacy is if you can bend the will of the Port Authority and make them cooperate with the MTA at La Guardia. What the Port Authority wants and was able to maintain with the Airtrain is complete control of access to all airports.
3
For a city that gets mad when your bagels get cold, you guys sure enjoy owning the moniker of having one of the worst airports in the world, and possibly the worst in the US.
So excuse me if I offer this piece of advice to your governor: Nice idea, but scrap it. Punt LGA away from the Port Authority and its do-nothing, never ending proposals. Add a second parallel runway to complement 13/31. Get rid of the old Terminal A. Redevelop Terminal B and split into two terminals (New Terminal A and B). Combine Terminals C and D and connect with a large concourse that would span Terminals A, B, C & D. Redevelop traffic plans, create space-saving double-decker parking garages (combining several parking lots into just a couple or so) and cab waiting lots to create a less-nebulous flow. Create a new express bus route that only stops between Astoria Blvd of the N & Q and the airport.
So excuse me if I offer this piece of advice to your governor: Nice idea, but scrap it. Punt LGA away from the Port Authority and its do-nothing, never ending proposals. Add a second parallel runway to complement 13/31. Get rid of the old Terminal A. Redevelop Terminal B and split into two terminals (New Terminal A and B). Combine Terminals C and D and connect with a large concourse that would span Terminals A, B, C & D. Redevelop traffic plans, create space-saving double-decker parking garages (combining several parking lots into just a couple or so) and cab waiting lots to create a less-nebulous flow. Create a new express bus route that only stops between Astoria Blvd of the N & Q and the airport.
I love New York! My mother and brother were natives. I would visit much more often and leave behind tourist dollars if only it were less disheartening to get there. I am a huge fan of public transportation. My guess is that there is a huge unmet demand for ala Guardia, if only there were an easy way to get downtown. I'm 65. Build it so I can use it before indie if old age. Create the jobs. Boost the LI economy. Trust me: If you build it, we will come!
3
Luggage on the 7 train during peak hours? I don't think so, especially since it's SRO anyway.
4
Congestion road pricing eliminates the traffic problem. Then VIP (big leather seats) shuttle buses to Manhattan provide comfortable cheap ride. This costs 4 million not $450 million. New York has fantastic existing road infrastructure but because it's cheap or free it's way overused. Great tragedy Bloomberg didn't get road pricing through. Solution to high cost NYC real estate? Eliminate the traffic jams with road pricing and all of a sudden you have an extra 5 million homes within 30 minutes of midtown. It helps the poor because public transit is cheaper when one bus can do more loops in a shift. This train is not going to be a very pleasant. Few people are going to take it.
3
Fantastic existing road infrastructure -- to LGA!!!??? You have got to be kidding me. I live on Long Island. The ride to LGA is appalling. I have used the LIRR, change at Jamaica to Woodside, then get on the bus to LGA a couple of times -- not very practical either (I missed a plane last year, and haven't attempted to use it since -- did all the Thanksgiving and Xmas trips to pick up and drop off various relatives by car -- every single one a miserable drive.) I don't know why everyone is complaining about the airtrain to JFK -- works pretty well for me -- hugely preferable to driving, at any event.
Forgive the bluntness, Governor
I think you're doing an outstanding job of trying to revitalize the state.I see the activity and impact of your task forces in many state geos - and understand you're trying to turn around decades of "overtax and overspend", but...
> The new Tappan Zee Bridge doesn't meaningfully improve transit across the Hudson River.It doesn't add a new crossing location or include systemic integration of mass transit. An integrated set of bus lanes, a la at the 42nd st bus terminal would've been welcome. It seems like preserving the number of toll-paying cars was an objective, and positioning to hike tolls substantially on non-local users of the bridge
Similar thoughts about the current disjointed rail system out of JFK. Good intentions and technology - but completely mis-routed. Others have commented in more detail on this one
So here's the opportunity to fix:
> First, think of the technology not as an elevated eyesore, but as a "High Line" with trains still running
> With that, run the line over to the Upper East Side, cutting over the north end of Roosevelt Island
> Here're the punch lines:
1. Put in a bike lane
2. Treat the land next to the 2-3 possible stations as prime hotel development areas. Don't finish off the stations, until a certain number of rooms have been built
3. Use it as a learning experience for select crosstown routes, where the traditional approach would be to resist above-ground rail
Overall - kudos.Keep going
I think you're doing an outstanding job of trying to revitalize the state.I see the activity and impact of your task forces in many state geos - and understand you're trying to turn around decades of "overtax and overspend", but...
> The new Tappan Zee Bridge doesn't meaningfully improve transit across the Hudson River.It doesn't add a new crossing location or include systemic integration of mass transit. An integrated set of bus lanes, a la at the 42nd st bus terminal would've been welcome. It seems like preserving the number of toll-paying cars was an objective, and positioning to hike tolls substantially on non-local users of the bridge
Similar thoughts about the current disjointed rail system out of JFK. Good intentions and technology - but completely mis-routed. Others have commented in more detail on this one
So here's the opportunity to fix:
> First, think of the technology not as an elevated eyesore, but as a "High Line" with trains still running
> With that, run the line over to the Upper East Side, cutting over the north end of Roosevelt Island
> Here're the punch lines:
1. Put in a bike lane
2. Treat the land next to the 2-3 possible stations as prime hotel development areas. Don't finish off the stations, until a certain number of rooms have been built
3. Use it as a learning experience for select crosstown routes, where the traditional approach would be to resist above-ground rail
Overall - kudos.Keep going
1
New Yorkers can already reach Newark Airport by rail. We also have an underused rail option to Kennedy. Let's not burden the MTA with more expenses while they extend the #7 subway and build a new East Side Subway line. Dreaming up projects without a clear plan on how to pay for it is not leadership.
3
If I have to fly, I go out of Newark. It's easily accessible from everywhere and intelligently laid out. Not interested in fight, then flight!
I love the idea of better public transportation options to LaGuadia Airport (LGA). However I doubt Cuomo's plan is the best option. There are cheaper options, like simply upgrading the existing bus service to the #7. There are more subway rider friendly plans, like extending the subway system to LGA, from either the N\Q lines, the #7 line, or even from Sutphin Blvd\Archer Avenune (which would effectively link LGA to JFK and to the 7,E and the F lines). I think that a plan this huge should be debated in public.
4
It is absurd that this wasn't done decades ago. You won't find an airport with train links in any other advanced nation.
1
P3 is long term parking. Do not drive to P1 or P2. There are no signs telling you this, it is through hard earned experience I share this with you. Also, make sure you have $7.50 left in your pocket for the bridge toll back North, and they renamed the bridge the RFK bridge. It used to be the Throggs Neck or the Triborough but, that's not as important as the seven fifty. And when you are faced with the choice of 'east' or 'west', going north, don't choose east. You can not get to New York City or Connecticut from 'east'. That's Long Island, and in the rain, it looks like Kansas.
1
I spend a good fraction of my life in New York City, and fly frequently from LaGuardia.
The major advantages of this plan as proposed are that it gets something in place (not to be despised!), is relatively cheap, and faces little opposition from residents who might be impacted by the alternative construction.
But then all of the negatives that other commenters who got here before me make clear: it's awkward and slow and involves two transfers for most potential users.
And the Jackson-Hts transfer, to the 7 line, is one of the least convenient and crowded transfers in the MTA system -- now it will be taken by lots of people carrying bags -- really?
If this idea is to work for the public who might ride it, the 7 line needs a major upgrade in its stations and usability, particularly the transfer at Jackson Heights. That transfer involves a large change in grade -- how is that going to be managed for people dealing with bags?
Its going to take more than some expensive restaurants to rescue LaGuardia from third-world status. Why not think just a bit larger?
Why not at least branch / extend the 7 line from 111 st to LaGuardia, over the same ROW as proposed, to eliminate one transfer?
With other upgrades to the 7 line, it would become much less difficult to use.
And then of course the big one -- Brooklyn <-> Queens -- the G line.
Mr Cuomo, you don't like being called third world? Fix the G-line. It even gets dissed by the Wikipedia article.
The major advantages of this plan as proposed are that it gets something in place (not to be despised!), is relatively cheap, and faces little opposition from residents who might be impacted by the alternative construction.
But then all of the negatives that other commenters who got here before me make clear: it's awkward and slow and involves two transfers for most potential users.
And the Jackson-Hts transfer, to the 7 line, is one of the least convenient and crowded transfers in the MTA system -- now it will be taken by lots of people carrying bags -- really?
If this idea is to work for the public who might ride it, the 7 line needs a major upgrade in its stations and usability, particularly the transfer at Jackson Heights. That transfer involves a large change in grade -- how is that going to be managed for people dealing with bags?
Its going to take more than some expensive restaurants to rescue LaGuardia from third-world status. Why not think just a bit larger?
Why not at least branch / extend the 7 line from 111 st to LaGuardia, over the same ROW as proposed, to eliminate one transfer?
With other upgrades to the 7 line, it would become much less difficult to use.
And then of course the big one -- Brooklyn <-> Queens -- the G line.
Mr Cuomo, you don't like being called third world? Fix the G-line. It even gets dissed by the Wikipedia article.
4
I think if you're coming from Albany, you and the entire upstate region would benefit from a purpose built high-speed rail link between Montreal, Albany, Newburgh Airport and the city.
So much of this region's infrastructure is not being planned in a coordinated fashion. It's very, very annoying.
So much of this region's infrastructure is not being planned in a coordinated fashion. It's very, very annoying.
My GF lives and works in Queens -- we're a two-career back-n-forth couple. I only fly from LGA when I'm departing from her place. Smallbany's airport is a good little airport
High-speed rail is another NY-state going-nowhere boondoggle. The root of the problem is that the rail ROW along the Hudson is both an environmental idiocy, and too curvy for high-speed rail. Every few years the state gives a contract to buddies of the governor for an "updated" high-speed rail study -- they just rip the cover off the last one, inflate the costs, glue on a new cover, and pocket a few million. It's a bad joke.
The only rational solution is a new ROW, perhaps aligned with the Thruway.
I'm from the west coast -- not a New York boy. The city is getting better, but it sure has a long way to go. Maybe it is a taboo issue, but ahem … toilettes?
New York City and its subways stink for a very basic reason. It's disgusting, and it ought to be embarrassing.
High-speed rail is another NY-state going-nowhere boondoggle. The root of the problem is that the rail ROW along the Hudson is both an environmental idiocy, and too curvy for high-speed rail. Every few years the state gives a contract to buddies of the governor for an "updated" high-speed rail study -- they just rip the cover off the last one, inflate the costs, glue on a new cover, and pocket a few million. It's a bad joke.
The only rational solution is a new ROW, perhaps aligned with the Thruway.
I'm from the west coast -- not a New York boy. The city is getting better, but it sure has a long way to go. Maybe it is a taboo issue, but ahem … toilettes?
New York City and its subways stink for a very basic reason. It's disgusting, and it ought to be embarrassing.
So, if you come in on the LIRR, you have to lug your luggage to the subway, then to this new train...and since the cost is not guaranteed via the bank fines, how much more would the MTA raise my LIRR and subway fares to ride there?
Perhaps, at best, it is just 1/2 an idea. At least Mario would have had a whole idea.
Perhaps, at best, it is just 1/2 an idea. At least Mario would have had a whole idea.
3
If Mario would have had a "whole idea", why didn't he get this done during his terms?
What percentage of the NYC population travels to LaGuardia? How often? Has anyone asked the questions? Is this a project for the 10%, or the 50%? It would be nice to have the answers before building.
3
Irrelevant questions. 100% of the people who fly into LaGuardia have to get somewhere else. 100% of the people who fly out of LaGuardia have to get there. Not all will take a rail link but for those who do why should it matter if they're residents of NYC or not?
2
While your numbers are irrefutable, that is not the point of the original statement by MAS. In an era of limited funds, the MTA (and other transportation agencies) need to prioritize their expenditures in an honest effort to give the biggest bang for the buck. The system in Manhattan, especially, is in great need of updating and expansion (2nd Ave, anyone?). The expenditure of more than $450 mil (and likely to grow) for a limited number of travelers that have other options is not a wise investment.
Of course there should be a train (and a ferry) to LaGuardia, but this is the kind of mass transit plan you'd expect out of someone who never uses mass transit and doesn't know or care much about it (hello, Andrew Cuomo!). For people coming from Long Island, or the far reaches of Queens, an Airtrain from Willets Point might make sense. For the vast majority of people in New York City, it would mean a subway ride (or two, or three) out of the way to get on an Airtrain headed back in the direction they came from. I live less than 7 miles from LaGuardia, in an area very well served by public transit, yet it takes me an hour to get to the airport (two subways and a bus). Cuomo's plan will spend untold billions to make it possible for me to get to the airport in...about an hour (two subways and a train). By car it's between 10 and 15 minutes. Your reporter was right to call this "a Robert Moses-style proposal," bearing in mind that Robert Moses's saw New York City as little more than a glorified expressway interchange. Run a train from the center of the city directly into the airport, like any normal, modern city would.
40
Reading the comments even before finishing the article, and Larry's astute analysis stands out. The difference between Robert Moses and Cuomo is that Moses could actually have gotten this done, even if it's not a good idea.
Looking at the Jamaica - JFK Airtrain.... NOOOO. Why build a special low capacity train that charges twice the fare of subway to an airport? Every forward looking cities around the world built regular subway to the airport.
14
Not exactly true. The Hong Kong Airport Express is a premium ticket, as are the Shanghai Airport maglev many other of these new subway airport links.
The hong kong MTR train costs more money, but it runs on the regular mtr link and is extremely fast and well integrated. This is just a dinky train that's not going to help anyone!
This would be a game-changer. The 3870km flight from Seattle to New York costs $350, while the 14km taxi from Laguardia to Grand Central costs $50. That's 9 cents per km versus $3.57 per per (traffic-clogged) km.
3
Virtually every other large city airport in the U.S. has convenient and inexpensive public transportation to the downtown area. It's a disgrace that there is none for LaGuardia.
6
Talk about a disgrace, just look at the three Port Authority airports.
1
Follow the money:
"In the audience were representatives of the Wilpon family, which owns Citi Field and the Mets, and the Related Companies, one of Mr. Cuomo’s largest donors; Related Companies is redeveloping land around the proposed AirTrain terminal."
"In the audience were representatives of the Wilpon family, which owns Citi Field and the Mets, and the Related Companies, one of Mr. Cuomo’s largest donors; Related Companies is redeveloping land around the proposed AirTrain terminal."
14
It should have been done sixty years ago.
7
As someone who traveled through LaGuardia frequently for work for the better part of two years, I think a mass transit link is a no-brainer: Reduced car traffic, easier access to the city, tremendous time savings for travelers and employees, and all the economic benefits that come with easier access to airports. The initiative will also create jobs and help the environment over time. If it can be done for less than $450M, even better. But even at that price, it's a worthwhile investment to bring LaGuardia into the 21st Century.
9
It is a step in the right direction, but a half step. Why not have a DIRECT rail link from both La Guardia and JFK to Penn or Grand Central Stations (add a stop for our neighbors in Queens)? Modeled after the Heathrow Express which covers the 16 mile distance from Heathrow Airport to Paddington Station in 15 minutes. Having ridden the AirTrain to both JFK and EWR, it is a time consuming, unimpressive experience - for both the residents of New York City and for any visiting tourists.
20
Every year NYC sends 12 billion more in taxes to Albany than it gets back in spending and services. I suggest looking for the new air train money in Albany, where New York City's taxes go to disappear.
8
So let me see if I understand this correctly. I live in Downtown Brooklyn. If I want use the proposed service, I need to carry my luggage to the AirTrain which drops me off at the 7 line. I then have to carry my luggage to the subway and take the 7 train into Manhattan where I have to carry my luggage once again as I transfer to another subway line which takes me into Brooklyn. Then I have to carry my bags from the subway stop to my home. At the very best, that's over an hour of travel on the subway alone compared to a twenty minute cab or Uber ride. No thanks.
5
So, of course, nobody should have the option.
2
You carry your luggage? Everyone I know has luggage with wheels. You should get luggage with wheels. Then you wouldn't have to carry your luggage.
1
Yes, my luggage has wheels, But I usually need to bring two pieces for the work I do -- as do many business travelers -- and negotiating subway steps, rush-hour crowds, and turnstiles with these items after a long flight is something that I do not want to do. I believe that most travelers would feel this way except, perhaps, for the really young who travel light and don't mind the hassle of making several transfers. On the other hand, Uber offers group rides and the younger crowd may prefer that option. I might as well.
Many good comments. I have taken the Airtrain to JFK. Once. Took far too long--with changes it took 90 minutes. Once I got on the Airtrain car, I was its only passenger. I live in Vienna and work all over Europe; from Paris to Amsterdam, from Copenhagen to Stockholm, from Madrid to London, there are trains that whisk you into city centers. As some have pointed out, it's true the Heathrow Express gets you only to Paddington, but considering the black cab alternative, well worth it. I see no serious attempt in NY to provide direct transportation from both airports to Manhattan. Newark, however, works better.
9
I've use the Airtrain a number of times and even late at night it's had a fair number of passengers on it. And if you feel it takes too long on the subway, you can pay a bit more and take the LIRR which goes more quickly.
3
A more prudent plan over the long-term might be a direct rail link between LGA with the LIRR to take advantage of the East Side Access Tunnel to Grand Central Terminal (now under construction). Essentially, the Airport would be served by the existing LIRR fleet rather than a proprietary, standalone system requiring a confusing and potentially long transfer at Citi Field.
9
It's enough to make one weep. At a time when the MTA is struggling to maintain the current transit system as it carries a record-breaking ridership, Cuomo has diverted tens of millions of dollars earmarked for transit into the state's general fund. But now that he's entering super-campaign mode he comes up with this boondoggle, which bears the same relationship to our transit needs as do charter schools to our education needs.
8
One day he's taking on the teachers' union and the next the cabbies. Is he planning to run for president as a republican?
3
Terrible idea. The 7 is at capacity already (imagine making this trip during Rush Hour, a Mets game, or the US Open), and this plan makes most passengers backtrack. Also the 7 only serves 42nd Street in Manhattan.
A much better idea is a spur off the N/Q between the Astoria and Ditmars stations following the Grand Central Parkway to LGA. That would allow for One Seat service to LGA for Midtown, Gramercy/Union Square, FiDi, even parts of Brooklyn, and single-transfer from the Bronx via 4/5/6 at Lex/59, 1/2 at Times or D at Herald.
A much better idea is a spur off the N/Q between the Astoria and Ditmars stations following the Grand Central Parkway to LGA. That would allow for One Seat service to LGA for Midtown, Gramercy/Union Square, FiDi, even parts of Brooklyn, and single-transfer from the Bronx via 4/5/6 at Lex/59, 1/2 at Times or D at Herald.
24
Yes, this is a bit of a no-brainer to me. Running along the northernmost streets of Astoria up to LGA. Or even make it a street car of some sort. Though they might actually, finally need to put elevators into Astoria N/Q stations if they do that.
2
Extend the N, or just paint more exclusive bus lanes for the M60 Select Bus and the bus from 74th & Roosevelt station.
It's great that someone is finally trying to connect LGA to the rail system, but the route is not well thought out. It only connects to one branch of the LIRR that is not reachable by most users of the LIRR coming from Long Island, and coming from the city it's just not that important to connect to the LIRR since the subway connection can be used, but that requires back tracking geographically. This proposal exalts short-term expediency over long term benefits. There are far better methods of connecting to both the subway and the LIRR. Yes, they might cost more money, and require tunneling, but we need a 100 year perspective here, not a 10 year perspective, and in the end we will have a connection that many more people will actually use. Also, the aesthetics of more concrete pillars in the sky is not appealing. All that said, at least a rail link to the airport is finally on the table.
20
This is New York.
10 years will mean 20 to 25 years and end up being an even worse solution than this mess of a proposal.
Or it will never happen.
Somehow there needs to be 21st Century level direct service from Manhattan to all three area airports, not the cobbled together mess it is now.
Curse Robert Moses!
10 years will mean 20 to 25 years and end up being an even worse solution than this mess of a proposal.
Or it will never happen.
Somehow there needs to be 21st Century level direct service from Manhattan to all three area airports, not the cobbled together mess it is now.
Curse Robert Moses!
2
The issue is not getting to the airport. The subway connection is too inconvenient for most frequent travelers. The issue is that all three NY area airports are embarrassingly retrograde. The rest of the world (Bangkok, Hong Kong, Amsterdam, even Denver) rewards the weary traveler. NYC welcomes the world to a slum (paraphrasing Joe Biden); then it makes everyone go through customs, even if they are just passing through to another country. Wake up, New York. Everywhere else has passed you by.
22
It's curious that Governor Cuomo didn't mention what plan, if any, he has to fund the MTA, which needs another $15 billion for its capital program. Whatever the merits of the La Guardia proposal, it'd be a huge mistake to underfund the region's subways, buses and railroads.
7
Logan Airport in Boston is another case of absolutely no improvement of public transit access in my lifetime.
2
You know what they need? A train that goes directly to the airports from Manhattan. Everything else is cutting corners and wasteful and is likely to be under-utilized except maybe by the back-pack set. Ever check out the train that connects Jamaica, Queens with JFK? It mostly empty. With regard to the proposed train and the connection at Willets Point, do you know what the travel time to Willets Point from Manhattan on the 7 is? Long!
If you're going to do it, do it right.
If you're going to do it, do it right.
12
People hate taking buses. I think most transplants don't know how to use the bus. I live and Harlem and never taken the bus to LGA. Due to time constrants, not bus riding fear. I do enjoy taking the bus when i can. There neeends to be a quicker option for people that aren't living in UES, UWS, and Harlem in terms of transpertation to LGA.
OK. You hate taking buses. So do I, but really, for me, coming down from Inwood on the A train and getting the M60 right around the corner from the train exit makes just too much sense to dismiss it. Not to mention it only costs $2.50 (for now, at least) or essentially free if you have an unlimited card on you. I do this several times a year and it works. It has gotten noticeably more efficient, too, since the introduction of select service and some tweaks in where the stops are located. I would imagine that even tourists staying in midtown would not have too much trouble using this mode (or taking one of the other subway/bus options connecting LGA with the E or 7 train).
Ultimately, an all-rail route that does not require transferring out of the subway system or one that is wholly on the LIRR would be the most satisfactory, but building an inconvenient rail link in the wrong location that will undoubtedly charge an additional fare has no logic to it.
Ultimately, an all-rail route that does not require transferring out of the subway system or one that is wholly on the LIRR would be the most satisfactory, but building an inconvenient rail link in the wrong location that will undoubtedly charge an additional fare has no logic to it.
As one who lives in the mid-west in the suburbs and is "married" to my car, I take the bus every time we fly into LGA. The introduction of the Q70 LTD was a great improvement. Total time from getting off the plane to our hotel in midtown is about 45 minutes. And, with the unlimited MetroCard, We are set up for the whole week. Even cheaper than the AirTrain from JFK.
The eleven-year-old in the house heard this story and was appalled. "$450 million for a mile and a half? That's more than $50,000 a foot!"
I was proud of her math, but winced at the spending. Really. We can't condemn a clear two-way right of way, pave it, and run 40 shuttle busses 24/7 for less than that? Seriously?
I was proud of her math, but winced at the spending. Really. We can't condemn a clear two-way right of way, pave it, and run 40 shuttle busses 24/7 for less than that? Seriously?
10
Ask your eleven-year-old how much it will cost to build in five years, ten years, fifteen years. New transportation systems will have to be built eventually. This should have been done 25 years ago.
2
Even now, I find the stated proposed cost to be low. I wouldn't be surprised if it wound up double the $450 mil.
A different approach: Use high-speed ferries specifically designed for roll-aboards and luggage with stops at various points along the East River (and maybe a stop in the South Bronx with excellent long-term parking facilities for residents of the Bronx, Westchester and Connecticut).
The ferry stops at the Marine Air Terminal with a short, enclosed walk to buses (or a tram) that takes passengers to the various terminals.
Wayyyyy cheaper than a train that will rarely be used (subway stairs+luggage= non-starter)
The ferry stops at the Marine Air Terminal with a short, enclosed walk to buses (or a tram) that takes passengers to the various terminals.
Wayyyyy cheaper than a train that will rarely be used (subway stairs+luggage= non-starter)
6
No sensible person would consider taking the 7 with heavy, awkward luggage including a carry-on anything but torture. I have to do it every so often from Amtrak at Penn Station to Fulton Street on the 2/3 line - same small narrow cars as the 7 - and it can be nightmarish. The platform elevator on the 2/3 at Fulton is down near John St - then you have to walk back the length of the train via the mezzanine to get to the one that goes from there to street level, never mind the turnstiles that can't accommodate anything larger than a carry-on being rolled through them. This is maybe doable for day travelers toting nothing more than laptop bags but that's about it - never mind having to ride almost to the end of the 7 just to backtrack to LGA on the proposed new link.
6
We had that 25-30 years ago. When Pan Am ran the shuttle operating out of the Marine Air Terminal, they started a ferry service that ran from a couple of stops along the East River in Manhattan and ended up at the Marine Air Terminal. Delta may even have run it for a while after they took over that route from Pan Am. Trouble was, hardly anybody took it. I took it 3 or 4 times and there were never more than 4 or 5 people on it.
1
Why not a panacea, the Governor's proposal is encouraging. While it will not undo the folly of letting the Queens borough president veto the extension of the Airtrain to LaGuardia at the time it was built and thereby limit its impact and efficiency for travelers, it is a positive start to bringing LaGuardia into the 21st Century.
4
I can't imagine any other modern western country starting the JFK light rail and ending the line half way to the major destination where most airplane passengers are going - Manhattan.
23
HUUUUMMM? So he was vague on how to pay for this? Well 50 bucks of my vehicle registration went to the MTA. Makes sense right? I drive a car and pay for your subways so please don't ever tell me I have no business commenting on NYC issues.
Trains are good!
Trains are good!
Let's get real. It took NYC and the MTA 50 years (yes, I was counting) to put an express bus between Jamaica Station and LGA. So, really folks, there is a way to get to LGA and it costs $2.50 (oops 2.75). Couldn't we just add more, new and bigger busses for a 15 minute express ride? NAH! Not NYC. We're the only city in the world that has a 4 billion dollar train station...even the rats had to move out.
14
The express bus connects with all Queens major subway lines except the Astoria line and with all the LIRR lines in Queens not just 1 line. This route is much more useful & time efficient than changing to an Airtrain at Willets point and backtracking to airport. The Express Bus is faster for people coming from Manhattan, Brooklyn & most of Queens. Added capital cost for more buses, maybe 2% of Gov. Cuomo's wasteful scheme with modest operating subsidies, assuming a forceful push for Airport users.
Note: Boston has a similar bus connection to their Blue Line subway.
Note: Boston has a similar bus connection to their Blue Line subway.
Why not extend this proposed this AirTrain with the existing route that runs from Jamaica to JFK? Why not extend this AirTrain over the BQE and then over the East River into Manhattan?
4
I don't see how an AirTrain light metro link requiring transfer to a 100-year old subway line in Queens (the 7) and an over-capacity commuter railroad (the LIRR) is considered a "Robert Moses style proposal".
18
I doubt Andrew Cuomo has ever ridden the #7 train.
5
Exactly. If he really wants to do something to improve conditions at the airports, why doesn't he do something about the Port Authority? I think it's ludicrous, after refusing to support proposals to clean up the Port Authority, that he is now grandstanding on this issue.
4
The only pols I trust to make good transportation planning decisions are the ones who actually use public transportation.
The new Q70 ofers on nonstop, 10 minute ride from the Jackslon Hghts station on the E, F and 7 Train. The proposal would require many riders to go out further east on the very crowed, very slow 7 Train. The LIRR line at WIllets Point is a branch line and does not connect with the Jamaica hub or Long Island. A bad idea all around. How about following the current Q70 line on the BQE and the GCP. THis proposal is just plain dumb and unworkable.
17
Not to mention the fact that travelers heading out to LGA from east midtown Manhattan, especially far east midtown, would have to backtrack to GCT or Penn Station to connect with the 7 or LIRR. It wouldn't make sense for people ike me who live in this area and it wouldn't make sense for the many people who stay at hotels in this area.
3
I see the moan and groan crowd are out in force on this (and any other infrastructure improvement proposal) as usual. I take the JFK Airtrain both to/from Jamaica and Howard beach and love it. Sure, a one-seat ride would be ideal, but this project would be a start, and perhaps could be connected later to a direct-to-Manhattan service. It also could be paid for by a modest add-on fee to each ticket sold for flights from the airport.
7
A direct connection via the LIRR to Penn Station and Grand Central Terminal (that link, the East Side Access Tunnel, is now under construction) would be more prudent. East Side Access may free up some space on LIRR trains for passengers with baggage in tow.
1
I'm far from opposed to infrastructure upgrade, and a frequent flyer for business and pleasure, and looking at a long life ahead in NYC. I think this plan is a good start for planning - I think it is a far cry for a good start for building. And you can't just wishful hope more connections will be built down the line - they must be considered and integrated into the plan from the start, even if they are built in later stages (like Second Avenue line).
1
A welcome idea, but why not have one dedicated train to take you from LGA right into the CITY CENTER?
That's what virtually every capital city in Europe has and as a result, it's a pleasure getting to/from airports, instead of the descent into the Third World that LGA now is or the clunky, multi-step (and confusing) subway-transfer-to-'Airtrain' at JFK. (People there are always confused and asking which train to take--half the time even NYers wind up going the wrong way round all thew terminals instead of directly towards the subway). Both are terrible 'advertisements' for NYC!
That's what virtually every capital city in Europe has and as a result, it's a pleasure getting to/from airports, instead of the descent into the Third World that LGA now is or the clunky, multi-step (and confusing) subway-transfer-to-'Airtrain' at JFK. (People there are always confused and asking which train to take--half the time even NYers wind up going the wrong way round all thew terminals instead of directly towards the subway). Both are terrible 'advertisements' for NYC!
28
Agree 100% with SJG. The JFK Airtrain makes the airport marginally more accessible. If Im a college student with more time than money I'll use it but otherwise its not really practical. I've been flying in and out of LGA frequently for the past 15 years and I can count on one hand the number of times it has taken me more than 30 minutes to get there from Midtown. If the link isn't seamless and direct its not worth it. Hong Kong and London can get it right, why can't we?
20
Because our airports are run by the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey.
7
Did London get it right? Both Heathrow Express and Gatwick Express get you most of the way but you still have long Underground or taxi rides to reach huge chunks of the city. The DLR serving City Airport may be the better model for NYC.
5
How about PDX, YVR, DCA, and SFO? All are large metro areas with good (sometimes excellent) direct service to downtown. They all extended an existing transit mode to the airport instead of creating a new service.
Heathrow Express is a HUGE improvement over car service because it gets you straight from the airport to a point in the city at which taxis (or Tube) become sensible. This proposal sounds more like SFO's Caltrain/BART connection, which requires a similar transfer in the middle of nowhere (Millbrae).
Busses? Huge PITA with any luggage more than a small overnight bag, unless there is an undercarriage storage. Also subject to traffic delays unless a dedicated right-of-way is used, and always subject to weather delays.
Heathrow Express is a HUGE improvement over car service because it gets you straight from the airport to a point in the city at which taxis (or Tube) become sensible. This proposal sounds more like SFO's Caltrain/BART connection, which requires a similar transfer in the middle of nowhere (Millbrae).
Busses? Huge PITA with any luggage more than a small overnight bag, unless there is an undercarriage storage. Also subject to traffic delays unless a dedicated right-of-way is used, and always subject to weather delays.
4
Really?
I just took the Maglev from central Shanghai to the airport - 8 minutes at 300 km/h.
The maglev concept was created by my colleagues at Brookhaven National Lab - who were stuck in traffic on the Long Island Expressway one day.
Never implemented in the US - the Maglev is now implemented in China.
Let's get real - this country is becoming irrelevant by the decade.
Where are the Robert Moses of America??
I just took the Maglev from central Shanghai to the airport - 8 minutes at 300 km/h.
The maglev concept was created by my colleagues at Brookhaven National Lab - who were stuck in traffic on the Long Island Expressway one day.
Never implemented in the US - the Maglev is now implemented in China.
Let's get real - this country is becoming irrelevant by the decade.
Where are the Robert Moses of America??
31
Some would say that the reason why the mass transit in America is so bad is precisely *because* of Robert Moses.
34
Not willing to think big and learn from previous errors. This train line absolutely needs to extend to a major transportation hub in Manhattan. Like the JFK train, terminating in Queens severely limits the value of the service. Sure, linking to Manhattan is a much greater undertaking but it is worth it. Look at the JFK train. It is used by few. If it came into Manhattan it would be used by just about everybody. It is the difference between being an afterthought and being the default way to get to the airport. This should be done right or not done at all.
55
Used by a few? Guess you've never been on the JFK AirTrain. It's full of travelers and airport workers at all hours of the day and night. (Not to say that a more direct connection into Manhattan wouldn't be useful. But let's get past the idea that NYC is completely Manhattan-centric these days.)
6
Ah, but the #7 line is far more efficient than the long route of the A train. It is a direct route, falling a mile short. The connection will be very effective.
1
Yes, its already built...it's called the 7 train, which connects to Grand Central and Times Square. It takes about 15-20 minutes on the 7 to Citifield, its a safe line at most hours, and presumably this will add another 5 minutes max. Way quicker than a cab from midtown.
The problem with the JFK train is it relies on the A train which takes over an hour, and then another 15 minutes on the Air Train. That's an hour and 15. At non-peak times, it only takes a cab about 35-45 minutes.
The problem with the JFK train is it relies on the A train which takes over an hour, and then another 15 minutes on the Air Train. That's an hour and 15. At non-peak times, it only takes a cab about 35-45 minutes.
1
"It is relatively simple, relatively inexpensive and has minimal impact on the surrounding community...”
Yes, but it's still not a great idea and here's why...
“The governor’s office gave no estimate for how long it would take passengers to ride from Manhattan to La Guardia via the proposed station, which is farther east of Manhattan than the airport.”
Exactly my point.
As an Upper West Sider who lives close to a subway station, it can take more than an hour to get from my apt. to Citi-field (and I'm not talking 5:00 a.m. when subways are running less frequently). Then I would have to backtrack and finish the journey on the elevated rail?!
30 minutes in a taxi or 80 minutes on several trains? Hmmm.
Yes, but it's still not a great idea and here's why...
“The governor’s office gave no estimate for how long it would take passengers to ride from Manhattan to La Guardia via the proposed station, which is farther east of Manhattan than the airport.”
Exactly my point.
As an Upper West Sider who lives close to a subway station, it can take more than an hour to get from my apt. to Citi-field (and I'm not talking 5:00 a.m. when subways are running less frequently). Then I would have to backtrack and finish the journey on the elevated rail?!
30 minutes in a taxi or 80 minutes on several trains? Hmmm.
25
But think of the poor cabbies who will no longer have their jobs polluting and littering. Seriously, though, is this a separate train, or will it extend the 7 line?
1
From where I live in Brooklyn thats a long train ride with a long walk (with luggage) at 42nd St. to get on the always crowded 7. Probably won't replace a cab for me but seems like a reasonable plan. But with no plans on how to pay for it, and related and the Wilsons in the audience the stench of greed and corruption. In other words a perfect government project!
3
The Governor's initiative to create an elevated train link to LaGuardia is very exciting--and needed. This environmentally friendly proposal will create construction jobs and ease traffic congestion once finished.
I am pleased that the Governor is promoting new infrastructure projects. But, I also feel that more attention should be given to existing infrastructure. Look at the potholes on roads throughout NYS--municipalities that are trying to comply with the tax cap are putting off road repaving, roof replacements, water and sewer projects to the future. It's going to be more costly later on. Big bridges like the TZ bridge are being replaced. But, the smaller infrastructure projects are not being addressed by local governments throughout the state. NYS should provide local governments with more financial assistance to address local infrastructure problems. Provide incentives so the work will be done now!
PAUL FEINER
Greenburgh Town Supervisor
I am pleased that the Governor is promoting new infrastructure projects. But, I also feel that more attention should be given to existing infrastructure. Look at the potholes on roads throughout NYS--municipalities that are trying to comply with the tax cap are putting off road repaving, roof replacements, water and sewer projects to the future. It's going to be more costly later on. Big bridges like the TZ bridge are being replaced. But, the smaller infrastructure projects are not being addressed by local governments throughout the state. NYS should provide local governments with more financial assistance to address local infrastructure problems. Provide incentives so the work will be done now!
PAUL FEINER
Greenburgh Town Supervisor
6
It's about time. The question is how to finance it.
2
The "rider representative" has it right. The 7 will be unusable for the airport when a Mets game is going on, or when the US Open is going on...also, can we get a guarantee that the 7 won't shut down between Manhattan and Queens over the weekend if this AirTrain goes live? I'm all for creating transportation options to LGA, but this is NOT the way to do it.
19
It is about time.
3
The train is a good idea, but you just know shifty Andrew has a corrupt scheme in place to fund it so that his wealthy supporters can make a lot of money off it.
6
This is an idea that is long, long overdue. Forbes and other business magazines rate the top 10 best airports in the world, none are in the USA. LaGuardia is archaic, even compared to other US airports that serve smaller urban areas. This is an 'infrastructure' project that can bring a NYC into the 21st century. Finally.
8
I doubt Cuomo will be a regular on the train; however, every time I visit LGA I am shocked I need to take a cab/car service to Manhattan.
4
You don't. There are many quick bus rides that connect you to subway lines. But a cab is definitely easiest.
1
A no-brainer. Long overdue.
2
I select JFK for domestic flights only because I can reach it from the LIRR, reducing my fare from $60 including tip to a car service to $7.50, subway fare plus Airlink train faire. If this new train service becomes available, that would let me choose flights out of LGA too - excellent! I would hope that the airlines would kick in some of their billions in revenue for this new train to LGA.
3
"billions in revenue"??
The airlines are barely solvent.
The airlines are barely solvent.
A two transfer two hour ride from most of manhattan that will probably take 15 years to finance and build. Reminds me of that time it took 14 years to build an uninspiring bunkerlike tower that nobody wants to occupy at the world trade center site.
17
Why not extend the astoria line..... Ditmars Blvd is 20 minutes from 34 street (I worked at macys in college and lived in astoria)... rather that taking the #7 train. which is one of the busiest lines... extend the Astoria line to the water and make a right turn and you are in LaGuardia....
33
Absolutely...the only logical solution.
3
Giuliani proposed extending the N train via a JFK Airtrain type elevated structure from Astoria to the airport - a simple and elegant idea. Of course the proposal went nowhere, as the residents of the areas where the train would have passed went ballistic and demanded the entire extension be buried in a tunnel, which would have quadrupled (at least) the cost.
6
Indeed the best and cheapest solution to extend the Astoria N line, as there is way less new track to built. You then have a truly one seat ride from Manhattan to LGA, and not having to make a detour on the crowded 7 train which also have smaller cars than the N train.
Such an extension by the way would have to be underground at least part of the way anyway so it can cross runway 4/22, so then it can also go underground in the neighborhood with the complainers.
Such an extension by the way would have to be underground at least part of the way anyway so it can cross runway 4/22, so then it can also go underground in the neighborhood with the complainers.
2
I can't imagine Cuomo wanting Laguardia to be renamed in his honor.
Let's hope this is built with greater foresight and less disappointment than Pataki's disastrous AirTrain, which was a complete boondoggle and continues to be the most inconvenient way to get to JFK.
The AirTrain cars are designed to not fit on MTA tracks, in order to protect funding from the Feds and the MTA for future maintenance. Wouldn't it have been great to actually get on a train in lower Manhattan and have it go all the way to JFK without changing trains and going up and down stairs? Wouldn't it have felt like the 21st century?
I really hope this is built, but I hope Cuomo and the architects think out the design well in advance, and not allow another boondoggle.
Then they can get going on redesigning Laguardia.
Let's hope this is built with greater foresight and less disappointment than Pataki's disastrous AirTrain, which was a complete boondoggle and continues to be the most inconvenient way to get to JFK.
The AirTrain cars are designed to not fit on MTA tracks, in order to protect funding from the Feds and the MTA for future maintenance. Wouldn't it have been great to actually get on a train in lower Manhattan and have it go all the way to JFK without changing trains and going up and down stairs? Wouldn't it have felt like the 21st century?
I really hope this is built, but I hope Cuomo and the architects think out the design well in advance, and not allow another boondoggle.
Then they can get going on redesigning Laguardia.
6
I can think of better uses of scarce MTA capital spend.
1
Good start! We are decades behind Europe. If we spent the money on war on modernizing our best cities instead, can you imagine what we would have?
37
Not very ambitious. Needs to link with the LIRR and subway lines at Woodside, Willets Point is too limited as it serves only the Port Washington line.
Should explore following the path of the BQE.
Should explore following the path of the BQE.
10
Great idea, but we need to get Senator Schumer to fight for the federal funding that LaGuardia deserves. Both JFK and LaGuardia, are on the top ten airports in the US that get the least funding per passenger, particularly bad since it needs more security than most other airports.
Chuck Shumer has fought long and hard to get tax breaks for hedge fund billionaires, he needs to help maintain NYC infrastructure, as we are losing out to London, which has six airports.
Chuck Shumer has fought long and hard to get tax breaks for hedge fund billionaires, he needs to help maintain NYC infrastructure, as we are losing out to London, which has six airports.
10
It would seem to involve taking at least three and perhaps more trains! Take the LIRR train towards Manhattan, perhaps changing at Jamaica for a train that stops at Woodside. At Woodside, the traveler must then take a train to Port Washington that stops at Flushing Meadow Park to change to the airport train. Driving seems MUCH easier.