This appears to be the NY Times editorial board strategy--when contesting concepts they don't like--eg, concern about Islamic fundamentalism--they "balance" their op-ed pages by publishing people from the extreme right, like Le Pen or Naftali Bennett in Israel. Of course we have many more op-eds from the Left. But those in the middle-of-the-road who are concerned about Islamic fundamentalism (and whose arguments are more reasonable) never see the light of day. This is their way of delegitimating mainstream opposition, another play on political correctness.
9
This is probably pretty much how the Reconquista began in Spain. Trouble brewin'.
3
This a pretty set of inexact interpretations. Spanish as wells as Turkish police had no information at all about Mrs Hayat Boumeddiene because she was never indicted or researched by the police. Illegal immigration is not a problem because these terrorists were born in France and they never attempted to use the rights that pertained to the foreign nationality their parents belonged. Furthermore, Mrs Le Pen tells more ore less that setting a frontier with police controls between New York state and Massachusetts would prevent people using illegal weapons in both states. That's obviously false.
It seems Le Pen has a reputation, may be the like of our Ted Cruz. But I did find one thing said that warrant some consideration. Why should someone who has provened to have joined a terrorist group continues to enjoy the citizenship of the country they now terrorize? The least, may be their passports should be revoked. I read in mulitple pieces mentioning the ease of these individuals travelling between the Middle East and the West because they have European (or American) passports.
3
Yeats asked, "How can we know the dancer from the dance?"
Many people commenting here are saying, "We can't. We just have to know the dancer & that's all we need to know. Le Pen= racist, ergo everything she says = racist."
While I am certainly not in favor of Le Pen in general, that argument is not valid.
A saint can say sinful things, & a sinner can say saintly things. We all know this. So why the rush to smear her name & refuse to even try to know the dancer from the dance? I found her argument lucid. Why not take it on its own merit?
I think b/c commentators don't like the dance. But they can't argue against the dance so they attack the dancer. They don't like hearing that radical Islamists are a dangerous threat to democracy, a rising fascist global threat. So they attack the author, or assert unsupported claims, like the root of radical terrorism is inequitable poverty, so terrorism is ultimately our fault. This isn't shown by data - many terrorists are from elite backgrounds, & it ignores the religious & fascist elements- yet it is asserted as a sort of counter-dance. It's like they are saying, Lalala I'm not listening, I'm singing another song.
It won't work. Despite denial, wishful thinking, the dance goes on. Radical Islam is a rising global threat, period. This is borne out by facts. To deny this is even to ignore the 100,000s of Muslim & African victims of this terror.
Just because this dancer here is Le Pen doesn't take away from the dance itself.
Many people commenting here are saying, "We can't. We just have to know the dancer & that's all we need to know. Le Pen= racist, ergo everything she says = racist."
While I am certainly not in favor of Le Pen in general, that argument is not valid.
A saint can say sinful things, & a sinner can say saintly things. We all know this. So why the rush to smear her name & refuse to even try to know the dancer from the dance? I found her argument lucid. Why not take it on its own merit?
I think b/c commentators don't like the dance. But they can't argue against the dance so they attack the dancer. They don't like hearing that radical Islamists are a dangerous threat to democracy, a rising fascist global threat. So they attack the author, or assert unsupported claims, like the root of radical terrorism is inequitable poverty, so terrorism is ultimately our fault. This isn't shown by data - many terrorists are from elite backgrounds, & it ignores the religious & fascist elements- yet it is asserted as a sort of counter-dance. It's like they are saying, Lalala I'm not listening, I'm singing another song.
It won't work. Despite denial, wishful thinking, the dance goes on. Radical Islam is a rising global threat, period. This is borne out by facts. To deny this is even to ignore the 100,000s of Muslim & African victims of this terror.
Just because this dancer here is Le Pen doesn't take away from the dance itself.
6
I fully agree that names are important and, in this case, vital. Must we not assume that the absence or paucitry of 'moderate' Muslim condemnation of events like Charlie Hebdo are proof enough that the problem is not radical Islam but Islam itself?
2
Before you start singing the praises of Marine Le Pen based upon one Op-Ed piece, please take a look at the record of those towns in France where the Front National controls city hall. There have been newspapers removed from libraries, charitable associations defunded, and children refused the right to participate in Christmas parties because their parents, even though legal residents of France, were not French citizens. Please take a look at the attendance and voting records of the FN in the European Parliament. Please note that their two representatives in France's National Assembly (Congress) were the only ones who refused to stand and applaud Manuel Valls after his national unity speech last week. If you liked Marechal Petain, you'll love Marine Le Pen.
4
The terminology 'Islamic Terrorism' is unfortunate. The Holy Quran does not dictate its followers to kill someone on being mocked as what we have recently noticed in France. "The Quran quotes: ‘We sent Apostles before you among the religious sects of old. But no Apostle ever came to them that was not mocked. Even so do We let it creep into the hearts of the sinners, that they should not believe in it; that has been the way of such people since ancient times.’ (15:10)
For mocking at prophets, the Lord does not ask to kill the scorners?
By taking another verse of the Quran into thought: ‘Likewise did We make for every messenger an enemy…evil ones among men and jinns, inspiring each other with flowery discourses by way of deception. If your Lord had so planned they would not have done it, so leave them and their inventions alone. Let the hearts of those who have no faith in the Hereafter incline to such deceits: let them delight in it, and let them earn from it what they may.’ (6:112-113)
The Holy Book of Islam, instead emphasizes to let them mock at the prophets in their wrong doings, against the popular perceived perception that it teaches to execute them. The wrong-doers are accountable to God and to human beings.
For mocking at prophets, the Lord does not ask to kill the scorners?
By taking another verse of the Quran into thought: ‘Likewise did We make for every messenger an enemy…evil ones among men and jinns, inspiring each other with flowery discourses by way of deception. If your Lord had so planned they would not have done it, so leave them and their inventions alone. Let the hearts of those who have no faith in the Hereafter incline to such deceits: let them delight in it, and let them earn from it what they may.’ (6:112-113)
The Holy Book of Islam, instead emphasizes to let them mock at the prophets in their wrong doings, against the popular perceived perception that it teaches to execute them. The wrong-doers are accountable to God and to human beings.
2
Today Ms Le Pen rails against Islamic Fundamentalism. Yesterday, she railed against the Jewish people. While much of what Ms Le Pen writes is true, the condemnations should go further. Where was Ms Le Pen's condemnation when a Muslim gunman attacked a Jewish school in Toulouse? Would Ms Le Pen be so angry if only four Jews had been killed instead of the Charlie Hebco cartoonists, I think not.
France has conveniently forgot the many years of terrorist activity committed against Jews and Europeans in the name of Palestine. There is no difference between these Islamic fundamentalists and the terrorists from Hamas, Fatah, PLO, Hezbollah, PFLP, Islamic Jihad etc.
France has conveniently forgot the many years of terrorist activity committed against Jews and Europeans in the name of Palestine. There is no difference between these Islamic fundamentalists and the terrorists from Hamas, Fatah, PLO, Hezbollah, PFLP, Islamic Jihad etc.
1
Beautifully written and translated.
And she's right that France must unitedly address Islamic terrorism (whether it be fueled directly by Islamic fundamentalism or uses Islamic fundamentalism as a cover).
And I especially applaud her phrase that "Muslims themselves must fight it at our side."
And she's right that France must unitedly address Islamic terrorism (whether it be fueled directly by Islamic fundamentalism or uses Islamic fundamentalism as a cover).
And I especially applaud her phrase that "Muslims themselves must fight it at our side."
5
Condemning the Times for publishing this piece is an utter repudiation of the feelings behind the millions who just marched. You either believe in freedom of expression or you don't. Fine, point out other speeches that were biased; fine, fear the rise of fascism and reactionary views. But to deny us her column makes no sense whatsoever. Our only hope is to listen to all voices, including the ones we rarely listen to or prefer to not hear. (Fearing that these rational words of le Pen might sway people to her side is to think far too little of your fellow citizens and THEIR right to decide.)
4
"Let us call things by their rightful names, since the French government seems reluctant to do so."
OK, Ms. Le Pen, let's call things by their real names. The French government, the French people, and a large percentage of other Europeans and you, seem reluctant to do so too when it suits your politics.
You criticize those who feel we can't call "Islamic Fundamentalism" by its real name, because we fear to conflate Islam and Islamism and that may be hurtful.
But you feel perfectly comfortable for Europeans to rename anti-Semitism, (which has always been endemic in Europe, coming in equal measure from the hard right and the hard left), as something more euphemistic: Anti-Israel or anti-Zionist. No - let's call it by its real name Ms. Le Pen: Anti-Semitism, Jew hatred. It has been around in Europe for centuries, was front and center when most European countries willingly delivered their Jewish citizens into the hands of the Nazis, and is alive and well today - in France and the rest of Europe.
One issue that in France the far left, the far right, the Islamist Fundamentalists are in agreement on: misnaming anti-Semitism. "The hypocrisy of so many hard-left, right wing and now "Islamist" western Europeans would be staggering if it were not so predictable based on the sordid history of Western Europe 's treatment of the Jews." (Dershowitz)
You should read your own article Ms. Le Pen. Tell it like it is.
OK, Ms. Le Pen, let's call things by their real names. The French government, the French people, and a large percentage of other Europeans and you, seem reluctant to do so too when it suits your politics.
You criticize those who feel we can't call "Islamic Fundamentalism" by its real name, because we fear to conflate Islam and Islamism and that may be hurtful.
But you feel perfectly comfortable for Europeans to rename anti-Semitism, (which has always been endemic in Europe, coming in equal measure from the hard right and the hard left), as something more euphemistic: Anti-Israel or anti-Zionist. No - let's call it by its real name Ms. Le Pen: Anti-Semitism, Jew hatred. It has been around in Europe for centuries, was front and center when most European countries willingly delivered their Jewish citizens into the hands of the Nazis, and is alive and well today - in France and the rest of Europe.
One issue that in France the far left, the far right, the Islamist Fundamentalists are in agreement on: misnaming anti-Semitism. "The hypocrisy of so many hard-left, right wing and now "Islamist" western Europeans would be staggering if it were not so predictable based on the sordid history of Western Europe 's treatment of the Jews." (Dershowitz)
You should read your own article Ms. Le Pen. Tell it like it is.
4
One may want to read this article together with today's murder of Alberto Nosman, the chief prosecutor in Argentina's 1994 Hezbola-Iran bombing of AMIA, then ADD AFOURTH 'MISTAKE':
Which is: making deals with known habitual terror-sponsoring states.
Which is: making deals with known habitual terror-sponsoring states.
2
I have read reams and reams of suggestions regarding governmental actions to combat the very real terrorist threat. Yet in precious few of the "great ideas" has anyone mentioned that the Islamic community as a whole must decry, in the strongest possible terms, the actions of those who claim to act in its behalf. Where is the general condemnation from the mosques? Where is the condemnation from the governments of countries having Muslim majorities?
These terrorists do not live in a vacuum. They are well supported. Where is the impetus to stem the flow of money, the willingness to go after the arms dealers?
Governments must take the lead in their answers. Et encore, vive la France.
These terrorists do not live in a vacuum. They are well supported. Where is the impetus to stem the flow of money, the willingness to go after the arms dealers?
Governments must take the lead in their answers. Et encore, vive la France.
1
Its astonishing that no one has seen the irony of what's occurring in Europe. Europeans have invaded and oppressed large swaths of South America, Australia Asia and Africa, now they're being terrorized. A famous American once said "the chickens have come home...."
3
First Putin. Now Marine Le Pen. What's next? Kim Jong-un?
2
Would'nt it be grand if name calling, exclusion and intimidation could solve all our problems. i think we can safely dismiss this argument and move on.
Marine le Pen is, above all, a politician. Therefore, what you see here is a watered-down version of some of her views, none of which fairly represent her radicalism. She advocates that France withdraw from virtually all international organizations (including NATO), forge a privileged partnership with Russia (she has said that she admires Vladimir Putin), and require that French citizenship be based on one's ability to assimilate to "republican principles." She advocates France pulling away from the US (aka forging a potentially more adversarial relationship).
Yes, she may be less radical than her father, Jean-Marie le Pen, founder of the Front National party, but she is hardly the relatively reasonable individual who appears in this article.
Yes, she may be less radical than her father, Jean-Marie le Pen, founder of the Front National party, but she is hardly the relatively reasonable individual who appears in this article.
4
Marine Le Pen thinks that French people like me should not exist. I am multicultural and a dual citizen. She views multiculturalism as a disease and wants to make dual citizenship illegal. For people like her, it is all about national purity. I cannot believe that the New York Times's editorial staff gave a platform to this hateful, xenophobic woman who espouses a form of ethnic cleansing that has people like me as its target. Of course she seems reasonable and clear-headed – that has been her strategy from the start. She wants nothing better than for people to stop thinking of her as an extremist while she continues to espouse the same ultra-nationalist policies. Shame on you New York Times for naïvely playing into her game and helping her continue this path to mainstream acceptance, which could one day have very real and terrible consequences for me and millions of others like me who do not fit into her definition of what it means to be French. I am cancelling my subscription over this incredibly ill-informed decision that shows an incredible ignorance of French politics.
1
Still don't understand, how Couldn't EU government predict what will happen with this immigrant policy? Srsly, they are much smarter than me, they are experienced politicians, but... I don't know what's been leading them all this time, but result isn't surprising for me at all. A lack of sense of proportion, that's the problem of their "mission tolerance".
Many Americans who read this article have probably never heard of Ms. Le Pen or her father Jean-Marie Le Pen, before the disastrous attacks in Paris last week. Her party the National Front, started by the elder Le Pen, is one of the vilest right wing anti-Semitic, anti European Union, parties in France. Ms Le Pen, now couches her vitriolic hate speech in moderate terms to win votes in both French and EU elections and also gain support among the French people and those outside of France who are naive to her true aims.
6
Radical Islam is certainly a cancer of the mind. It is a public health menace and should be dealt with like any other menace or infection. It is at our own peril that we do not study this threat without preconception or bias. To study any threat with the preconceived notion that we cannot examine its origin is folly.
1
It is high time for Europe to stop turning away from the problem and hide behind political correctness and tolerance. There are things that can not be understood, accepted and justified and terrorism is the first of them.
2
The great Chinese philosopher Confucius said 2,400 years ago when asked what would be his first action if he were placed in charge of the government of China:
"It would certainly be to correct language. If language is not correct then what is said is not what is meant. If what is said is not what is meant, then what ought to be done remains undone. If this remains undone, then morals and acts deteriorate. If morals and acts deteriorate, justice will go astray. If justice goes astray, the people will stand about in helpless confusion. Hence, there must be no arbitrariness in what is said. This matters above everything."
"It would certainly be to correct language. If language is not correct then what is said is not what is meant. If what is said is not what is meant, then what ought to be done remains undone. If this remains undone, then morals and acts deteriorate. If morals and acts deteriorate, justice will go astray. If justice goes astray, the people will stand about in helpless confusion. Hence, there must be no arbitrariness in what is said. This matters above everything."
If we are going to call a problem by it's name then we have to say it: Organized Religion. Granted, there is a spectrum, and at this period in time, fundamentalist Islam represents an extreme on that spectrum, but the root is religion. We need to move beyond this divisive tribalist vehicle for power and control of the human population and figure out how to embrace virtues in a secular way. We, and the planet, will last much longer that way.
4
Marine LePen: "With all due respect to to Gwen Stefani, I AM a Houellebecq girl."
France and the United States share the same ideals and both republics were founded on the same principles of freedom, though neither claims it practiced them perfectly. With different laws, France and the US practice freedom differently, but each could still see itself in the other, because the results are the same. Mme Le Pen is known for mainstreaming extremist ideas by cleaning up her party's image, and calling it 'dedemonization.' Her father, who started the party 40 years ago, still posts anti-Semitic jokes on its official website. Mme Le Pen appeals to fear and ignorance. Politicians who have no ideas to sell, or ideas too unappealing to mention, can still succeed by selling hatred and resentment. With enough hysteria, the public may not notice that her solutions do away with civil liberties and keep no one safe. She wants to name call, but sued her opposition for calling her what she is, and she lost the case. All the dedemonization she conjures up will never hide what she has in her heart. God Bless America and Vive La France!
Iraq was a war so criminally insane it empowered the darkest forces of evil, yet it was wholeheartedly supported by Christian fundamentalists. Like Islamic fundamentalists, their Christian counterparts are also standard bearers for violence, ignorance, oppression, intolerance and hypocrisy. Each movement feeds off the other like symbiotic parasites, growing at the expense of humanity and civilization as a whole, preaching their warped messages in clear violation of the spiritual teachings of Jesus and Muhammad. Christians and Muslims alike must condemn the extremists in their own communities.
1
I'm still more worried about the FN, and the NPD in Germany, the BNP & UKIP in the UK, and the "Golden Dawn" in Greece, and similar right-wing extremists in Sweden, etc.: the Breiviks and NSUs of Europe are more dangerous than isolated Islamic attacks.
Canadians and Australians managed to undergo attacks without overreacting.
LePen has polished her image, but we only need to look at Hungary to see where she wants to take France and Europe.
Canadians and Australians managed to undergo attacks without overreacting.
LePen has polished her image, but we only need to look at Hungary to see where she wants to take France and Europe.
1
Let's see how Gov. Mike Huckabee compares with Mme. Le Pen.
Here's Huckabee introducing David Barton, an anti-Semite:
"I don’t know anyone in America who is a more effective communicator than David Barton. I just wish that every single young person in America would be able to be under his tutelage and understand something about who we really are as a nation. I almost wish that there would be something like a simultaneous telecast and all Americans would be forced, forced — at gun point no less — to listen to every David Barton message. And I think our country would be better for it. I wish it’d happen."
http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2011/03/31/154984/mike-huckabee-david-...
Here's Huckabee introducing David Barton, an anti-Semite:
"I don’t know anyone in America who is a more effective communicator than David Barton. I just wish that every single young person in America would be able to be under his tutelage and understand something about who we really are as a nation. I almost wish that there would be something like a simultaneous telecast and all Americans would be forced, forced — at gun point no less — to listen to every David Barton message. And I think our country would be better for it. I wish it’d happen."
http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2011/03/31/154984/mike-huckabee-david-...
3
My family, including my parents, has directly suffered in its flesh from crimes committed during the Secong World War by the same people this woman has always represented and based her antisemitic and anti immigration ideology. They were first to strip my family of birth rights aand basic liberties. She and the Front National party have tried to hide a wolf in sheep's clothing, exploiting populist ideas fueled by economic hardship. Change will not come from these dangerous thugs, biut more violence and a fast come back to times Europe hope they never come back. From an ethical point of view, the denial from NYT editorial board to publish Charlie Hebdo's caricatures while letting this kind of rethoric take place and hold seesm to be a complete and dangerous double standard.
Yes, call its name. Shocking offer by the NYT. A free platform WITH NO context, to speak to American readers who may or may not be able to see the darkness behind seemingly reasonable language. Paris, city of light, AND dark, France, land of liberties, & police with sub machine guns in the streets, a war-time mentality that has zilch to do with people's fantasies of Midnight in Paris la-la land. & yet we hope for the best in a world of double speak & double think. So, one must bless the air with care, & with some version of say it ain't so! The French have a common saying: un chat est un chat, meme dans le noir A cat is a cat even in the dark. And a racist is a racist, even dressed up as a "reasonable' op ed author.
5
I want to believe this sense that what happened does not reflect true and honest Islamic thought. I really do. I desire to not blame an entire religion. I would be, oh so, comforting to think that those who did this horrible thing in Paris, were outliers
To come to such conclusions as Ms. Le Pen, we would have to accept, that there was a general sense of most of the Islamic faith, that what happened was not simply tragic, but horribly wrong in every sense. But this is not the case.
What we hear from so many Islamic wise men and women of this faith, as reported via all reports, is that the killings were sad and tragic, but really, what do you expect will happen if you print such things? And so, no, it is not a cancer. It is barely an overreach. It is for many, am embarrassment, to be explained away.
And so no, this is not a cancer, on the religion.
Yes there are millions of those who follow Islam who did not and do not do these things. But far to many accept these, things that are done, as right and necessary. As much as we want to say all religions are to be treated with equity, such an argument is on its face, without a scintilla of sanity. By simple definition there must be some faith traditions that are anathema to the general populace. To suggest there could not be such a thing, makes no sense.
There is, and must be, an existential question of whether those who seriously follow the Islamic faith came be accommodated in a pluralist society.
To come to such conclusions as Ms. Le Pen, we would have to accept, that there was a general sense of most of the Islamic faith, that what happened was not simply tragic, but horribly wrong in every sense. But this is not the case.
What we hear from so many Islamic wise men and women of this faith, as reported via all reports, is that the killings were sad and tragic, but really, what do you expect will happen if you print such things? And so, no, it is not a cancer. It is barely an overreach. It is for many, am embarrassment, to be explained away.
And so no, this is not a cancer, on the religion.
Yes there are millions of those who follow Islam who did not and do not do these things. But far to many accept these, things that are done, as right and necessary. As much as we want to say all religions are to be treated with equity, such an argument is on its face, without a scintilla of sanity. By simple definition there must be some faith traditions that are anathema to the general populace. To suggest there could not be such a thing, makes no sense.
There is, and must be, an existential question of whether those who seriously follow the Islamic faith came be accommodated in a pluralist society.
2
KUDOS to Madam Le Pen! Yes, the world needs to call a "spade a spade" as she so rightfully stated. One issue that she missed and others fail to address, except Pegida, is that any immigrant absolutely must adhere to the norms and mores of her new host country. The old ways must be forfeited. Why move somewhere if you do not intend to assimilate completely? I did.
It is not racist or bigoted to advocate such a position. If you want to maintain your foreign culture than stay in your former country or move to a similar one. We do not choose to live under your Islamic norms or mores and nor should we be forced to tolerate or accommodate them. It is simply rude, illogical, ignoble and dishonorable to demand or even expect the host country to do so.
If anyone disagrees, then please be the first to move to Saudi Arabia or Pakistan and demand a church to be built, to distribute Bibles or to even express atheist views. Let's see who is accommodated and tolerated.
It is not racist or bigoted to advocate such a position. If you want to maintain your foreign culture than stay in your former country or move to a similar one. We do not choose to live under your Islamic norms or mores and nor should we be forced to tolerate or accommodate them. It is simply rude, illogical, ignoble and dishonorable to demand or even expect the host country to do so.
If anyone disagrees, then please be the first to move to Saudi Arabia or Pakistan and demand a church to be built, to distribute Bibles or to even express atheist views. Let's see who is accommodated and tolerated.
2
Mme Le Pen seems in this article to be a really moderate, reasonable politician. In fact she isn't. She's a real dangerous far-right politician. Last December she defended the use of torture (almost) unreservedly. You can find the proof here (in french) :
http://www.bfmtv.com/mediaplayer/video/marine-le-pen-sur-la-torture-des-...
http://www.bfmtv.com/mediaplayer/video/marine-le-pen-sur-la-torture-des-...
2
Ms le Pen as usual warps facts and reality.
It is not true that M.Fabius, the French Minister of Foreign Affairs chose to name the Islamist State Daesh instead of ISIS, for fear of "conflating Islam with Islamism". He chose it because he didn't want to give a sort of recognition as a"state" what was to him a bunch of terrorists. M.Fabius explained that very clearly. Ms. Le Pen could not ignore it.
But even so, M. Fabius would be right in being wary to underscore the difference between Islamism and Islam. As per to day, when Ms Le Pen speaks of the French government "reluctance to call things by their rightful names" she passes over the Prime Minister's speech (addressing the Parliament on Jan.13th) whose strong and clear position on the the recent events were applauded by both the majority and the opposition.
As for immigration Ms Le Pen speaks of the necessity to curb a legal immigration. On this point, France is far from accepting the number of immigrants as Germany or Sweden do.
As for President Hollande's support of fundamentalists, on which base is it she pretend ? It's out of the blue.
Ms Le Pen speaks of the "days of January" as days when the French people "rose up to defend their rights". I believe that she alludes to the March of the 11th which she refused to take part of.
Ms Le Pen likes democracy ? She is an ardent partisan of Poutine 's politics in Ukraine and Crimea.
It is not true that M.Fabius, the French Minister of Foreign Affairs chose to name the Islamist State Daesh instead of ISIS, for fear of "conflating Islam with Islamism". He chose it because he didn't want to give a sort of recognition as a"state" what was to him a bunch of terrorists. M.Fabius explained that very clearly. Ms. Le Pen could not ignore it.
But even so, M. Fabius would be right in being wary to underscore the difference between Islamism and Islam. As per to day, when Ms Le Pen speaks of the French government "reluctance to call things by their rightful names" she passes over the Prime Minister's speech (addressing the Parliament on Jan.13th) whose strong and clear position on the the recent events were applauded by both the majority and the opposition.
As for immigration Ms Le Pen speaks of the necessity to curb a legal immigration. On this point, France is far from accepting the number of immigrants as Germany or Sweden do.
As for President Hollande's support of fundamentalists, on which base is it she pretend ? It's out of the blue.
Ms Le Pen speaks of the "days of January" as days when the French people "rose up to defend their rights". I believe that she alludes to the March of the 11th which she refused to take part of.
Ms Le Pen likes democracy ? She is an ardent partisan of Poutine 's politics in Ukraine and Crimea.
4
Mr. Le Pen,
In a collection of his essays, Resistance, Rebellion, and Death, Albert Camus (who would not look kindly on your ideas, as he found common cause with the Muslim Algerians he lived among in Africa) wrote that we do not need to rely on lies and violence to create a just world. The world knows you are a farcical leader who plays on people's fears of immigrants and the differences between us. Not all of the world, but a good portion of it, knows the truth behind these attacks. That you would seek to capitalize on them––and that the New York Times would publish your words on the day this country honors Martin Luther King Jr.––is shameful. I opened this comment with the thoughts of one of my heroes, Camus. In the book The Fall, one of Camus' characters talks about his relationship with a person like you: "And this kept up till the day when, in the violent disorder of painful and constrained pleasure, she paid a tribute aloud to what was enslaving her. That very day I began to move away from her. I have forgotten her since." I can only hope that the people of France realize today, while you must be overjoyed that the American public is exposed to your ideas, that it is hate that is enslaving you. I hope they soon move away from you and forget your very name.
In a collection of his essays, Resistance, Rebellion, and Death, Albert Camus (who would not look kindly on your ideas, as he found common cause with the Muslim Algerians he lived among in Africa) wrote that we do not need to rely on lies and violence to create a just world. The world knows you are a farcical leader who plays on people's fears of immigrants and the differences between us. Not all of the world, but a good portion of it, knows the truth behind these attacks. That you would seek to capitalize on them––and that the New York Times would publish your words on the day this country honors Martin Luther King Jr.––is shameful. I opened this comment with the thoughts of one of my heroes, Camus. In the book The Fall, one of Camus' characters talks about his relationship with a person like you: "And this kept up till the day when, in the violent disorder of painful and constrained pleasure, she paid a tribute aloud to what was enslaving her. That very day I began to move away from her. I have forgotten her since." I can only hope that the people of France realize today, while you must be overjoyed that the American public is exposed to your ideas, that it is hate that is enslaving you. I hope they soon move away from you and forget your very name.
1
"Muslims themselves need to hear this message. They need the distinction between Islamist terrorism and their faith to be made clearly.
“This is petty rich of the author when it is Muslims who are attacked and killed more than anyone else by these terrorist thugs using the name of “Islam” in vain. They have fought beside France as they have with America. They have felt the pain of France many times over. Anyone with common sense knows these terrorists do not represent Muslims, so they are well aware of the need for distinction.
It's obvious Marine Le Pen have not heard the multitude of Muslims proclaims of distinction and seems more interested in her need to call these terrorists "Radical Islamic Terrorist" to further her political agenda of running for president of France.
She is playing on the fears that already exist in France. And her radical racist skin heads that are included in her followers would love to start a war with the French Muslim communities.
There is a lot of strife going on in these communities mostly because of economic reasons and not being fully assimilated into the French culture unlike here in America where they have become Muslim Americans. This is a major problem for France.
“This is petty rich of the author when it is Muslims who are attacked and killed more than anyone else by these terrorist thugs using the name of “Islam” in vain. They have fought beside France as they have with America. They have felt the pain of France many times over. Anyone with common sense knows these terrorists do not represent Muslims, so they are well aware of the need for distinction.
It's obvious Marine Le Pen have not heard the multitude of Muslims proclaims of distinction and seems more interested in her need to call these terrorists "Radical Islamic Terrorist" to further her political agenda of running for president of France.
She is playing on the fears that already exist in France. And her radical racist skin heads that are included in her followers would love to start a war with the French Muslim communities.
There is a lot of strife going on in these communities mostly because of economic reasons and not being fully assimilated into the French culture unlike here in America where they have become Muslim Americans. This is a major problem for France.
3
Recent events in France have been truly horrific, and to say so is hardly controversial; that's the easy part. Any politician is on fairly solid ground when they condemn a mass murder, so congratulations to Ms Le Pen for having the courage to do so.
Getting into a semantic argument about what to call it is just a distraction, however. You can call them "Islamic Fundamentalists", you can call them "Criminals" or you can call them the "Fluffy Bunny League". It won't make any difference to the dead - they will still be dead. Meanwhile, the hatred - on all sides - will continue to spread while everyone is busy scrambling for a dictionary, looking for their label of choice.
More sinister is the idea of stripping people of their citizenship because they have ideas you don't like, or allowing immigration only for those who think the way you do.
Criminals should be brought to justice, and murder is a crime pretty much everywhere in the world. But in a country that guarantees Free Speech, it is not a crime to have an intolerant ideology.
The individuals involved in the recent attacks were criminals because they killed lots of people, not because they were fundamentalists. The alternative is to withdraw the right of Free Speech, then punish those who don't think the way you do.
This is exactly what the shooters were doing. Ms Le Pen should reflect on the fact that her goals and theirs (not their methods) are fairly similar.
Let's not make this any worse than it already is.
Getting into a semantic argument about what to call it is just a distraction, however. You can call them "Islamic Fundamentalists", you can call them "Criminals" or you can call them the "Fluffy Bunny League". It won't make any difference to the dead - they will still be dead. Meanwhile, the hatred - on all sides - will continue to spread while everyone is busy scrambling for a dictionary, looking for their label of choice.
More sinister is the idea of stripping people of their citizenship because they have ideas you don't like, or allowing immigration only for those who think the way you do.
Criminals should be brought to justice, and murder is a crime pretty much everywhere in the world. But in a country that guarantees Free Speech, it is not a crime to have an intolerant ideology.
The individuals involved in the recent attacks were criminals because they killed lots of people, not because they were fundamentalists. The alternative is to withdraw the right of Free Speech, then punish those who don't think the way you do.
This is exactly what the shooters were doing. Ms Le Pen should reflect on the fact that her goals and theirs (not their methods) are fairly similar.
Let's not make this any worse than it already is.
1
People who judge Marine Le Pen by this oh so "reasonable" sounding editorial are completely deluded about the true sinister nature of the FN and should do more research into her party and its "illustrious" founder, and her father, Jean Marie. She has only relatively recently tried to distance herself slightly from him, but even her most avid supporters believe she's a "a chip off the old block" and they like it that way. Of course recent events have given her an opportunity to present herself as a voice crying in the wilderness, but in the end it is just "tel père, tel fille".
3
Who would ever guess that I would agree with Marine Le Pen? In fact BEFORE I read this article (so I was not seduced by her use of words) I had concluded that it was grotesque to call these people religious fundamentalists because they call themselves religious.
Labels do matter. Calling them religious fanatics is ludicrous because there is nothing religious about their actions. They are heretics, apostates and their actions are so intensely anti-Islamic (raping and murdering) that they can be fairly called blasphemous.
The problem arises when our "friends" in the Golf States including Saudi Arabia do not come out to call a spade a spade and they see some kind of perverse religious piety when there is none. While the so called religious fundamentalists, the terrorists, do brutalize women, which some perversely equate with religious law one can fairly argue this is NOT what the great religion of Islam is about. Saudi Arabia has been doing some efforts to inch away from their repressive present by establishing a new university for both men and women to teach and study together. It is time for the Saudi to make a a clear break and join the world in condemning the wanton murder from Boko Haram, to the "Islamic" state, to the Kosher supermarket in Paris.
Why was Abdullah Saudi Arabia's head of state and absolute monarch NOT there in the streets of Paris holding hands with the other world leaders condemning this assault on the fundamental tenets of his religion?
Labels do matter. Calling them religious fanatics is ludicrous because there is nothing religious about their actions. They are heretics, apostates and their actions are so intensely anti-Islamic (raping and murdering) that they can be fairly called blasphemous.
The problem arises when our "friends" in the Golf States including Saudi Arabia do not come out to call a spade a spade and they see some kind of perverse religious piety when there is none. While the so called religious fundamentalists, the terrorists, do brutalize women, which some perversely equate with religious law one can fairly argue this is NOT what the great religion of Islam is about. Saudi Arabia has been doing some efforts to inch away from their repressive present by establishing a new university for both men and women to teach and study together. It is time for the Saudi to make a a clear break and join the world in condemning the wanton murder from Boko Haram, to the "Islamic" state, to the Kosher supermarket in Paris.
Why was Abdullah Saudi Arabia's head of state and absolute monarch NOT there in the streets of Paris holding hands with the other world leaders condemning this assault on the fundamental tenets of his religion?
4
Whatever you call it, the problem is the hatred of the other for being other. And none of Mme Le Pen's proposed solutions address *this* problem. Indeed, through her focus on closing France to those she sees as non-French others, she is simply the mirror of the threat she wants to name.
Sometimes I wonder where you get your information from. The media and all the French have no problem naming the problem as Muslim Fundamentalism. It is all over shouted everywhere . People marched in the street in defiance with fake targets on them saying they are not afraid and all the politicians were extremely angry at Muslin Fundamentalism. They can do what they want in their homeland but not here. We are the 5th world power have a strong army navy and air force and nuclear force. Our freedom was born on the barricades of the French revolution and no one will tell us what to say or draw in our own country. 4 m people walked in the street on january 11 to say this. It is the foreign press that applies censorchip to what it says or shows not us.
Indeed there are states like Saudi Arabia from where the ideas, finance and sometimes manpower comes for the Islamic Terrorism. The ideology of the terrorists is the radical form of Islam and that is the enforced state religion in Saudi Arabia. Let us face the hard facts.
1
Islamic Terrorism is a propaganda construct for alternative reality enthusiasts who have successfully defamed 1.6 Million Muslims in order to conquer the Shia Crescent, and impose the extractive Order of the American Empire, contrary to all of the laws among nations.
La Pen is a typical right wing hack who wishes to consolidate the misery of the unemployed in France into rejecting Muslims as if they were responsible for the disaster that is the European Union which was formulated without political union by an elite which is also extractive from its own people as is Empire from "the other."
The message is don't blame the bankers, blame Muslims. The truth is that Muslims are everyones perfect target for two reasons. The, 50 million out of 1.5 billion Muslims, who have no hope of exercising control of their oil resources or benefiting from them have what the Empire wants, and all of Islam cannot project a scintilla of power to defend the sovereign rights of Muslims.
Islam is so diverse that the baselessness of the common narrative of the La Pens, or the Bushes for that matter, regarding Islam should be obvious on its face.
The world today resembles nothing if not the period just prior to the descent into the dark valley of the 1930's, and the forces driving the descent are being unleashed by the same class of men who gave us the Nazi Party and Fascism.
La Pen is a typical right wing hack who wishes to consolidate the misery of the unemployed in France into rejecting Muslims as if they were responsible for the disaster that is the European Union which was formulated without political union by an elite which is also extractive from its own people as is Empire from "the other."
The message is don't blame the bankers, blame Muslims. The truth is that Muslims are everyones perfect target for two reasons. The, 50 million out of 1.5 billion Muslims, who have no hope of exercising control of their oil resources or benefiting from them have what the Empire wants, and all of Islam cannot project a scintilla of power to defend the sovereign rights of Muslims.
Islam is so diverse that the baselessness of the common narrative of the La Pens, or the Bushes for that matter, regarding Islam should be obvious on its face.
The world today resembles nothing if not the period just prior to the descent into the dark valley of the 1930's, and the forces driving the descent are being unleashed by the same class of men who gave us the Nazi Party and Fascism.
I don't get what she says. DAESH is a derogatory name that Fabius' is calling ISIS, so why is she complaining?
I wonder why it takes an attack on their own soil for the French to think about calling something like this a terrorist attack, or to think of calling fundamentalist Islamists a threat. The United States has been trying to open a discourse on this subject ever since 9/11 and France has tried to paint the united states as bullies, colonialists, or just plain after the oil money. Maybe now we can start to talk but it is a shame it had to take this long.
This bilge needs to take its own advice and stop misnaming things.
Radical Islam is not Islam. Islamic terrorists are not defending, nor are they representative of a community. They are outsiders in their communities. What we are witnessing, US right-wing theorising notwithstanding, is NOT a Clash of Civilizations.
This kind of talk - Le Pen's bile and the Clash of Civilizations - is a huge part of the problem and is fanning the flames of community and sectarian attacks in Europe. The people who become Islamic terrorists share one thing above all, a mindset. Only then does the ideology become operative. It is that mindset that needs to be addressed. And even then, we are talking about less than a thousandth of one percent of Muslim youth. How is that a problem in Islam.
Let's call it what it really is, racism. Would we expect Jews in America to apologise for Israeli excesses? Did the Catholic Church in Ireland excommunicate IRA terrorists or even once fail to give them "Christian" burials, even when they died in the process of planting bombs? So why is everyone leaning on Muslims when it's just as bewildering to them as it is to us?
France goes on about its attachment to Liberté. Its real focus today needs to greater egalité and fraternité - something Le Pen is actively agitating against.
Radical Islam is not Islam. Islamic terrorists are not defending, nor are they representative of a community. They are outsiders in their communities. What we are witnessing, US right-wing theorising notwithstanding, is NOT a Clash of Civilizations.
This kind of talk - Le Pen's bile and the Clash of Civilizations - is a huge part of the problem and is fanning the flames of community and sectarian attacks in Europe. The people who become Islamic terrorists share one thing above all, a mindset. Only then does the ideology become operative. It is that mindset that needs to be addressed. And even then, we are talking about less than a thousandth of one percent of Muslim youth. How is that a problem in Islam.
Let's call it what it really is, racism. Would we expect Jews in America to apologise for Israeli excesses? Did the Catholic Church in Ireland excommunicate IRA terrorists or even once fail to give them "Christian" burials, even when they died in the process of planting bombs? So why is everyone leaning on Muslims when it's just as bewildering to them as it is to us?
France goes on about its attachment to Liberté. Its real focus today needs to greater egalité and fraternité - something Le Pen is actively agitating against.
2
I imagine that NYT's rationale for publishing Marie Le Pen's article is this: In a democracy, and especially in time of crisis, every voice should count and given the opportunity to express itself. This is essentially the leitmotif of multiculturalism (or postmodernism if you will), which Le Pen ironically criticizes. Where is the problem with every voice counts? It is this: If we are to listen to everyone and give everyone equal consideration, how are we to determine what's morally and ethically right?
It is disturbing to see how Le Pen appropriates left-wing rhetoric. And even more disturbing is to read self-proclaimed leftist commentators here puzzled as to how they could possibly agree with her! The ideological divide between left and right has become even more blurred since the end of the Cold War, thus I am not really surprised to see all the kind of weird alliances coming into being (such as Russian/Putin banks sponsoring the FN with large loans).
Gramsci said it right: The old world is dying away, and the new world struggles to come forth: now is the time of monsters." Very disappointed in the NYT for giving Le Pen a voice.
It is disturbing to see how Le Pen appropriates left-wing rhetoric. And even more disturbing is to read self-proclaimed leftist commentators here puzzled as to how they could possibly agree with her! The ideological divide between left and right has become even more blurred since the end of the Cold War, thus I am not really surprised to see all the kind of weird alliances coming into being (such as Russian/Putin banks sponsoring the FN with large loans).
Gramsci said it right: The old world is dying away, and the new world struggles to come forth: now is the time of monsters." Very disappointed in the NYT for giving Le Pen a voice.
Ms Le Pen has good advisors who probably told her how to send a message to Americans through the New York Times. Le Pen quoting Camus is the equivalent of Cheney quoting Emerson or Bush declaring his love for Chomsky. Bad faith. Jean Marie Le Pen said there was a conspiracy behind the attacks. We are still waiting for Ms Le Pen's rejection of this conspiracy theory. The killers were not immigrants but had French nationality so the problem is also a domestic one. Anti-Semitism used to be a hallmark of the Front National (remember the terrible jokes about M. Durafour by Le Pen père?) now Ms Le Pen sounds like the Israeli PM.
As Mark Thomson points out in this edited version of the FN leader's views some points are valid. French foreign policy is, like the US one, often problematic. Libya is a case in point. But overall Le Pen pushes her anti-immigrant agenda and nationalistic narrow-mindedness. The far right and the Islamist terrorists are playing a complementary dance. Just look at Germany: Pegida is anti-immigrants and conflates Islam with terrorism and Islamist terrorists announce they want to kill its leader therefore fueling the flames of the fire Pegida is stoking. Ms Le Pen is talking softly but she is carrying a deadly stick. Not everything Bush-Cheney said was wrong yet they contributed to the chaos we all live in now. In French there is a very telling expression "pyromaniacal firefighters". Ms Le Pen stokes the fire she claims to be fighting.
As Mark Thomson points out in this edited version of the FN leader's views some points are valid. French foreign policy is, like the US one, often problematic. Libya is a case in point. But overall Le Pen pushes her anti-immigrant agenda and nationalistic narrow-mindedness. The far right and the Islamist terrorists are playing a complementary dance. Just look at Germany: Pegida is anti-immigrants and conflates Islam with terrorism and Islamist terrorists announce they want to kill its leader therefore fueling the flames of the fire Pegida is stoking. Ms Le Pen is talking softly but she is carrying a deadly stick. Not everything Bush-Cheney said was wrong yet they contributed to the chaos we all live in now. In French there is a very telling expression "pyromaniacal firefighters". Ms Le Pen stokes the fire she claims to be fighting.
I'm disappointed that the New York Times has chosen to publish this Op-Ed from Marine Le Pen without an opposing article exposing the Front National for who they really are.
Call a threat by its real name: the Front National - whose platform is based on ridding France of ALL immigrants and their children - is gaining ground in France at an alarming pace. This editorial masks the anti-Muslim comments that she is known for, such as likening Muslims praying in the streets - for lack of space in the mosque - to the Nazi Occupation of France.
To allow this op-ed to go unanswered at this time of crisis in France, when innocent Muslims are fighting attacks, spurred on by the Front National's years of deliberate conflations (immigrant=problems=Muslims=terrorism) would be irresponsible and morally wrong.
Call a threat by its real name: the Front National - whose platform is based on ridding France of ALL immigrants and their children - is gaining ground in France at an alarming pace. This editorial masks the anti-Muslim comments that she is known for, such as likening Muslims praying in the streets - for lack of space in the mosque - to the Nazi Occupation of France.
To allow this op-ed to go unanswered at this time of crisis in France, when innocent Muslims are fighting attacks, spurred on by the Front National's years of deliberate conflations (immigrant=problems=Muslims=terrorism) would be irresponsible and morally wrong.
1
Just re-read this.
Naming a Jihadist is pretty simplistic stuff.
Not much brain needed there.
Besides some anti immigration and more secure border comments, what has LePen really added to the conversation?
Had she taken any serious look at factors which engender Jihad or conditions that entice the young and impressionable to join in that radicalism? I didn't see a word of that.
She just wants to fight "it" which she has graciously named for us. Thank you!
Like conservatives everywhere, including commentors who are lapping up her no-solution drivel, there is no thought beyond the sophomoric surface.
If this were an audition for helpful suggestions, we'd be hearing a loud "NEXT!"
Naming a Jihadist is pretty simplistic stuff.
Not much brain needed there.
Besides some anti immigration and more secure border comments, what has LePen really added to the conversation?
Had she taken any serious look at factors which engender Jihad or conditions that entice the young and impressionable to join in that radicalism? I didn't see a word of that.
She just wants to fight "it" which she has graciously named for us. Thank you!
Like conservatives everywhere, including commentors who are lapping up her no-solution drivel, there is no thought beyond the sophomoric surface.
If this were an audition for helpful suggestions, we'd be hearing a loud "NEXT!"
The idea that the NYT would give space to Le Pen is beyond ignorance. Living in France, we see the rise of her party and many view it fundementalist in itself. This piece is meant to incite, not to move a discussion forward as anyone who has followed Le Pen (supporter or detractor) would easily see.
1
Seal the borders, anti-immigration, isolationism. No wonder so many commenters here find Marine Le Pen so reasonable and clear thinking. She sounds just like a Republican. 66 million people in France and when the New York Times wants French Op-Ed on the Paris attacks, this is who it comes up with? What could your rationale have possible been?
Again, as you see by the comments here, most Americans have no idea what's behind the boiler plate slogans and rhetoric of Marine LePen and the National Front. There isn't enough room in these spaces, not that it would make much difference, but for my fellow Americans who like to condemn our own politicians with inappropriate references to Nazis and Fascists, you wouldn't be wrong here.
For the New York Times to give an American voice to this hate-filled, xenophobe is disappointing, to say the least, and beyond belief.
Again, as you see by the comments here, most Americans have no idea what's behind the boiler plate slogans and rhetoric of Marine LePen and the National Front. There isn't enough room in these spaces, not that it would make much difference, but for my fellow Americans who like to condemn our own politicians with inappropriate references to Nazis and Fascists, you wouldn't be wrong here.
For the New York Times to give an American voice to this hate-filled, xenophobe is disappointing, to say the least, and beyond belief.
3
Christopher Hitchens was right: Religion poisons everything.
3
Do your own research on Le Pen. One carefully constructed article for a very specific audience should not convince anyone of anything regarding her party or her intentions.
4
"Un chat est un chat, meme dan le noir": a cat is a cat, even in the dark, as the French often say it. And in this case, the "chat" is merely the elephant in the rooM, yes,a beast: and its name is still, always has been, still is. "Racism." Keep the "other" out, and all will be well? Think again, madame, of a wiser French philosopher that the one you quote, namely, Rimbaud, philosopher and poet and truth teller who reminds us, even today that "JE EST UN AUTRE." Namely, "I" is another. I is =the= other. We are not one, not self only, we are ourselves only if we include the other. And all the toning down, in this seemingly reasonable article, of the far Rightist propaganda of exclusion-- in France (or elsewhere, by extension) will not hide the dark beat of racism. The air needs no passport to traverse the world. Nor does hatred, cloaked in a pretense of reason. We are a world with many beliefs and colors and religions and tastes. France , if it will defend liberty, must defend all of these, not only the ones that are presently comfortable. Or...as the American philosopher had it; "The truth will make you free; but first it will make you uncomfortable" Mark Twain.
7
The shallowness of the American intellect is demonstrated in all the comments about how "reasonable" Ms Le Pen is in this articles. Sure she can write a few thousand words that don't mention her hateful stance on immigration, poverty, and social justice. Her party is a party of bigots. That is not revealed in this article; instead, we have the usual tropes trotted out when people refuse to acknowledge the real source of evil. Our president Bush used the same tropes to justify the pointless attack on Iraq "They hate our freedom." Yes, the Islamic Fundamentalists are full of hate and nothing, no religion, no dogma, to code of justice or morals, can justify their acts. But this sort of hate is nurtured and encouraged by the same sort of despicable intolerance that is the usual rhetoric of Ms Le Pen and her party.
Want the terrorism and hate to stop, then start supporting an agenda of genuine inclusiveness and tolerance. The usual rhetoric of Ms Le Pen and many political leaders in the US too is nothing more than fear mongering and can be used as a recruitment tool but the extremists they supposedly want to stop. In reality Ms Le Pen and her ilk need the extremists in order to justify their own programs of hate.
Want the terrorism and hate to stop, then start supporting an agenda of genuine inclusiveness and tolerance. The usual rhetoric of Ms Le Pen and many political leaders in the US too is nothing more than fear mongering and can be used as a recruitment tool but the extremists they supposedly want to stop. In reality Ms Le Pen and her ilk need the extremists in order to justify their own programs of hate.
Now what was that about interference in the affairs of France by foreigners who don't share the same values?
Considering that local elections in France are scheduled for March and that the FN is desperately trying to turn the recent attacks to its own advantage, I wonder why the New York Times feels entitled, legally or morally, to offer Ms. Le Pen a free platform for electioneering.
Hysterix le Gaulois
Considering that local elections in France are scheduled for March and that the FN is desperately trying to turn the recent attacks to its own advantage, I wonder why the New York Times feels entitled, legally or morally, to offer Ms. Le Pen a free platform for electioneering.
Hysterix le Gaulois
Whether you agree with Ms. Le Pen or not, she does raise one question everyone should ask: Why is Saudi Arabia -- a land of legal barbarism and terror finance -- why is Saudi Arabian considered to be our ally?
2
Sitting by quietly without turning out perpetrators of crime is an act of agreement. This is what the Moslem community is doing. Until they start to act to root out the evil in their community they are partners to it. alas, too many of them do not feel that these crimes are evil.
1
I am very surprised the NYT would give a forum to such a person. This itself is a sign how low the paper has fallen editorially, IMO. It is vital that the center hold, not yield the ground to people of this ilk. The fact that some ideas she adumbrates may be reasonable (e.g. reinstate border controls to prevent flow of illegal weapons) does not mean her party should have a monopoly on such discourse. Unfortunately, if the parties with mass support fail to offer reasonable solutions to protect security, only the fringes will be left to argue for it with far darker implications than if the centrist parties carry the flag.
1
The NYT made a decision not to publish the cartoons of Charlie Hebdo, presumably because they found them in bad taste - thus presenting us with the example of just because you can doesn't mean you should. By the same token I would say just because you can publish an article by a vicious extreme right French politician doesn't mean you should. You give her an ounce of credibility she doesn't deserve.
"France Was Attacked by Islamic Fundamentalism"
France is a country of 66 million people. 3 French citizens killed 17 French citizens. But France was attacked?
On September 11, 2001, 19 non-Americans killed 2,996 Americans. Yet somehow, the French were wise enough to resist the siren calls of George W. Bush and Dick Cheney, the Marine le Pens of the U.S., to join the Americans in their invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq. In fact, the French tried to discourage the Americans, for which the French were vilified in the U.S. Congress and the U.S. press.
Are the French now going to forget their own wisdom? Are they going to listen to the likes of the American Marine le Pens they so wisely ignored in the last decade, much less their own Marine le Pen?
Are the French going to invade themselves, occupy themselves, submit themselves to their own "Patriot" Act?
Millions of French people marched a week ago Sunday against giving in to fear. They marched for unity. Marine le Pen is selling fear and disunity. Let's see if the French are still smarter than the Americans. From the tenor of the many enraptured comments here, many Americans are still no smarter than they have been since 9/11/2001. Despite an incredibly expensive education.
France is a country of 66 million people. 3 French citizens killed 17 French citizens. But France was attacked?
On September 11, 2001, 19 non-Americans killed 2,996 Americans. Yet somehow, the French were wise enough to resist the siren calls of George W. Bush and Dick Cheney, the Marine le Pens of the U.S., to join the Americans in their invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq. In fact, the French tried to discourage the Americans, for which the French were vilified in the U.S. Congress and the U.S. press.
Are the French now going to forget their own wisdom? Are they going to listen to the likes of the American Marine le Pens they so wisely ignored in the last decade, much less their own Marine le Pen?
Are the French going to invade themselves, occupy themselves, submit themselves to their own "Patriot" Act?
Millions of French people marched a week ago Sunday against giving in to fear. They marched for unity. Marine le Pen is selling fear and disunity. Let's see if the French are still smarter than the Americans. From the tenor of the many enraptured comments here, many Americans are still no smarter than they have been since 9/11/2001. Despite an incredibly expensive education.
It’s a sad day when the NYT publishes an op-ed by the leader of France’s infamous Front National (FN) and 500 readers recommend comments reacting favourably to her article.
As other posters have already tried to make clear, Mme. LePen is the slick “modernizing” face of a party renowned for its racism, xenophobia and anti-Semitism — until its recent renovation and electoral “respectability,” the FN was regarded as the western world’s largest and most dangerous neo-fascist mass movement. After all, its founder, M. Le Pen Sr., is an outspoken admirer of Hitler, a Holocaust-denier, and an advocate of mass deportation and ethnic cleansing.
While his daughter has moderated the tone publicly to broaden the message, the FN’s policies are still so extreme and reactionary they have no equivalent in mainstream American politics. The closest thing would be a shined-up David Duke with a large national following getting up-votes on a Sunday for his firm, but necessary views.
As other posters have already tried to make clear, Mme. LePen is the slick “modernizing” face of a party renowned for its racism, xenophobia and anti-Semitism — until its recent renovation and electoral “respectability,” the FN was regarded as the western world’s largest and most dangerous neo-fascist mass movement. After all, its founder, M. Le Pen Sr., is an outspoken admirer of Hitler, a Holocaust-denier, and an advocate of mass deportation and ethnic cleansing.
While his daughter has moderated the tone publicly to broaden the message, the FN’s policies are still so extreme and reactionary they have no equivalent in mainstream American politics. The closest thing would be a shined-up David Duke with a large national following getting up-votes on a Sunday for his firm, but necessary views.
This woman could stand up for motherhood and Apple Pie; she still doesn't deserve a place on this page. The Times should not offer her any attempt to seem respectable or reasonable.
How come a far-right wing French politician's op-ed piece is appearing in a left-leaning American newspaper? We should follow the money, as the old movie quote says to do. In this case, Marine Le Pen may be seeking donations from our right-wing ideologues in order to support her National Front party.
Ms. Le Pen's solution of arresting French Muslim jihadists and taking away their citizenship is absurd on its face as well as unworkable. Who is a French jihadist? How can she know who they are and which ones to arrest? Would it be anyone who is a Muslim? Anyone who owns a copy of the Koran? Anyone wearing Middle Eastern attire?
And proposing to stop immigration at French borders is another solution easier to suggest than to carry out. Borders are like parachutes: they work best when they are open. Who should be restricted from entering France? Anyone who isn't already a French citizen? Or anyone who isn't a specific type of French citizen, one like Ms Le Pen? Or perhaps it would be anyone the National Front party deems unworthy?
This entire essay reeks of French nationalist xenophobia, fear mongering, and racist discrimination. Its supposed appeal to protecting liberty is a thin disguise for its desires to arrest, charge, and eject from France anyone it deems not "French enough" for its fascist values. This is as frightening a political movement as those who espouse fundamentalist Muslim jihad. Here, intolerance meets intolerance, and everyone loses their humanity.
1
if we are going to be calling things by their real name, given its historical rhetoric, it would be a disservice to Ms. LePen and her Front National political party to call them anything other than xenophobic and racist.
Shall we dismiss an elegant solution to a math puzzle because the person presenting it is a xenophobe, radical environmentalist, or a wolf at Wall Street? I am aghast at the frequency of writers who seem to judging Le Pen's suggestions not on their merit but what her political agenda is. It's called in Logic rejecting an argument Ad Hominem.
2
Could it be that like the French, there are other peoples in the world too who are fiercely independent and who do not appreciate the French (in collusion with British, Americans, and others) deciding who should rule them, or what laws they should have, or what values they should subscribe to? To be independent yourself, allow others to be independent as well. The days of 'one-way street' are gone Ms Le Pen.
2
"Now the French people, as if a single person, must put pressure on their leaders so that these days in January will not have been in vain. [...] The petty logic of political parties cannot be allowed to stifle the French people’s legitimate aspirations to safety and liberty."
Yes, let us call the above by it's proper name: barely disguised totalitarian rhetoric.
Yes, let us call the above by it's proper name: barely disguised totalitarian rhetoric.
I’m appalled about the deep denial in which most of Europe is floundering. Islamic fundamentalism is an ideology that, as someone else commented, is seeking to transform the secular liberal democracies into Islamic theocracies. This happens not only through extremist violence (not just “two orphans”, but hundred of thousands of militants across the world) but through manifestations of the non-terrorist Muslim religious who never cease to seek control: it is everywhere. Muslims now are going collectively against anything that is of Christian origin: they petitioned that the cross be removed from the Swiss flag, demand crosses be banned in classrooms in Italy, and in cemeteries, ask to call to prayers from the Christian Chapel in Duke University, demand mosques be built in public places that hold special meaning for a country (as the ground zero mosque in NY), silence all criticism (any one read about the Canadians Muslims suing the national magazine McLean’s); receive any criticism with fury and violence and claims of "discrimination" (remember Theo van Gogh? ), have eradicated most Christians and Jewish from their own countries (in Niger they just burned 7 Christian churches to complain the Charlie Hebdo thing), etc. The Europe that we knew, that one of freedom and democracy, is on its way to oblivion as more and more control is so casually given away. Tolerance only works when it goes both ways, otherwise it just guarantees the dismissal of the “tolerant” party.
2
This was a surprisingly well-written and thoughtful essay by Mme. LePen. Up to a point. The big problem here is that nearly all of the "jihadists" are the disenfranchised young who have been born and raised in France, mostly by law-abiding parents who are horrified by the acts of their young. We read stories almost every day here about the heartbreak of these parents. It's a huge problem and hopefully will be addressed at the root - education and assimilation - as well as escalated vigilance. BUT France cannot, by international law, take away their passports, if they have no other passport or nationality, and render them "countryless". It's the law and it's a huge problem. There's no quick fix here, but working together with the other EU members who are dealing with the same issues, hopefully some answers will arise.
To those who think that Marine Le Pen is reasonable, don't be fooled by her rhetoric. Over the last 3-4 years, she has attempted, with great success, to "clean up" her party's image. And that's what she's doing here in this column, but her party has not really changed--it is still racist and xenphobic. One of her moves has been to forcefully espouse secularism (laïcité). So, instead of saying "foreigners out," she now says that those who don't adapt to French values should leave the country or be stripped of theiir French nationality. That may look reasonable to many, but it is pure and simple instrumentalization of laïcité. Now, this was facilitated by the fact that too many people on the Left vacillated on the notion of secularism in the name of political correctness. The Left has to reclaim allegiance to a clear secularism. As Charlie Hebdo's new editor wrote this week in his letter to the readers: "We are going to hope that ... a firm defense of secularism will go without saying for everyone, that people will finally stop—whether because of posturing or electoral calculus or cowardice—legitimizing or even tolerating communalism and cultural relativism, which only open the door to one thing: religious totalitarianism ... Fortunately, there are several tools that can be used to try to resolve [France's] serious problem, but they’re all useless without secularism. Not positive secularism, not inclusive secularism, not whatever-secularism, secularism period."
5
Multiculturalism is a bad idea, whereas multi-ethnicity is a reason for celebration. Multiculturalism vs. multi-ethnicity: The sooner political leaders and citizens recognize the difference the better off we'll all be.
1
Islam is not one single thing; it is diverse, just like Judaism and Christianity are diverse. Unfortunately, the West only sees Islam through the lens of terrorism, and so terms like "Islamism" are coined to solidify that association. Yes, Madame Le Pen, words are powerful things, and you are advocating for words that stigmatize an entire religion.
What if we flipped it around? Would we describe the views of far-right Israeli Jews who drop bombs on hospitals and UN shelters in Gaza as "Jewism?" Should we say that Christian terrorists subscribe to "Christianism?" Of course not. Those words would unfairly tar all Christians and Jews, the overwhelming majority of whom are completely innocent of terrorism.
Le Pen is an opportunist, trying to cash in on the global revulsion against the attacks in France to further her own racist goals. You cannot solve the problem of terrorism by blaming it on a religion. That is utter nonsense. Terms like "Islamism" confuse the issue. Their only effect is to fuel hatred and make things worse.
What can we actually do to reduce terrorism globally? First, stop supporting oppressive client states in the Middle East. Stop invading other countries - ISIS was created by people we imprisoned at Camp Bucca during Dubya's Iraq War Episode 2. Stop creating economic instability worldwide. Stop selling weapons to war-torn areas. Protect against all forms of terrorism, regardless of religion ... the list goes on.
What if we flipped it around? Would we describe the views of far-right Israeli Jews who drop bombs on hospitals and UN shelters in Gaza as "Jewism?" Should we say that Christian terrorists subscribe to "Christianism?" Of course not. Those words would unfairly tar all Christians and Jews, the overwhelming majority of whom are completely innocent of terrorism.
Le Pen is an opportunist, trying to cash in on the global revulsion against the attacks in France to further her own racist goals. You cannot solve the problem of terrorism by blaming it on a religion. That is utter nonsense. Terms like "Islamism" confuse the issue. Their only effect is to fuel hatred and make things worse.
What can we actually do to reduce terrorism globally? First, stop supporting oppressive client states in the Middle East. Stop invading other countries - ISIS was created by people we imprisoned at Camp Bucca during Dubya's Iraq War Episode 2. Stop creating economic instability worldwide. Stop selling weapons to war-torn areas. Protect against all forms of terrorism, regardless of religion ... the list goes on.
2
Nice translation, but "laïcité" is far from a common English word (unlike its French meaning and usage). I would translate it as "secular values", or "separation of Church and State, or simply "secularism."
1
"Everything must be reviewed, from the intelligence services to the police force, from the prison system to the surveillance of jihadist networks."
Yes, let us review everything. Everything, that is, except for how we shunt aside French Muslims to the margins of their society. For we ourselves have absolutely no responsibility in helping to create the conditions that breed despair that leads to the attraction of fundamentalism.
Yes, let us review everything. Everything, that is, except our own fears, and how they lead us to the attractions of right-wing fundamentalism.
Yes, let us review everything. Everything, that is, except how we breed extremism in ourselves as well as in others, and flatter ourselves that somehow, how our extremism is justified and noble, while at the same time sanctimoniously proclaiming our incredulity that they feel the same way about their extremism.
Yes, let us review everything. Everything, that is, except that all extremists are cut from the same cloth, and all are a threat.
Yes, let us review everything. Everything, that is, except for how we shunt aside French Muslims to the margins of their society. For we ourselves have absolutely no responsibility in helping to create the conditions that breed despair that leads to the attraction of fundamentalism.
Yes, let us review everything. Everything, that is, except our own fears, and how they lead us to the attractions of right-wing fundamentalism.
Yes, let us review everything. Everything, that is, except how we breed extremism in ourselves as well as in others, and flatter ourselves that somehow, how our extremism is justified and noble, while at the same time sanctimoniously proclaiming our incredulity that they feel the same way about their extremism.
Yes, let us review everything. Everything, that is, except that all extremists are cut from the same cloth, and all are a threat.
" Former President Nicolas Sarkozy’s intervention in Libya, President François Hollande’s support for some Syrian fundamentalists, alliances formed with rentier states that finance jihadist fighters, like Qatar and Saudi Arabia — all are mistakes that have plunged France into serious geopolitical incoherence from which it is struggling to extricate itself."
Ms. Marine Le Pen wants France to fight the war on terror using different strategy and tactics employed by Washington. The Obama administration has been training Syrian jihadists and also support the governments of Qatar and Saudi Arabia.
Ms. Marine Le Pen wants France to fight the war on terror using different strategy and tactics employed by Washington. The Obama administration has been training Syrian jihadists and also support the governments of Qatar and Saudi Arabia.
1
What Marine Le Pen says is reasonable, correct, and long overdue. Unfortunately, she lingers under the cloud of indecency left by her father, Jean-Marie Le Pen, founder of Le Front National, who is a good friend of the notorious French anti-Semite and pro-Islamist raconteur, Dieudonné M'bala M'bala, who expressed his solidarity with Amedy Coulibaly, the murderer of a police officer and four French Jews in the kosher supermarket Ms. Le Pen refers to. Evidently, for some high-placed members of the FN, the cold-blooded murder of five human beings in the City of Light is a laughing matter. While Marine has gone to great lengths to divest the FN of its uglier past, the callous, cynical, and revolting actions of its founder--her father--demonstrate that old-style hatred of Jews still resonates more loudly for some of its most influential members than revulsion at Islamist violence. If so, the FN will be consumed by those it seeks to defeat.
2
It is surprising to see an Op-Ed by Mme Le Pen. Bravo to the Times for giving its readers the opportunity to read her response to the recent massacres in France. "Toute vérité n'est pas bonne à dire" is an old French adage (The truth is often better left unsaid). She is stating truths that have been evident for quite some time, truths that have been systematically suppressed by successive governments and by the mainstream media. Some positions of the National Front are questionable, indeed alarming, but what she states here is inarguable.
3
Marine Le Pen is right. Terrorists should be named and should be called correctly i.e Terrorists. Terrorists do not really have a religion. They are just Assassins. Islam has been made a scapegoat in all this. And naming them Islamic is drinking the Terrorists' Kool-Aid. The French and the German Leadership has rightfully shown the difference. They are not misnaming anything. Bundling the secular muslim and the sham Islamic Fanatics together and giving them the same banner would be the wrong name. These normal Muslims require as much protection as the Jews because they are both under attack from these subhumans. Those Muslims who fled their countries were not terrorists. As a matter of fact they were running away in fear because the Fundamentalists would kill them for their ideas of secularism and freedom of expression and most important they wanted to live in modern, civilized society and leave their countries still living in the medieval times. Shunning and name calling will achieve nothing except a more disenfranchised section of society. Do not whistle the same tune as these murderers. Don't give them that satisfaction.
After seeing sights of millions of Muslims around the world burning Christian Churches, rioting, carrying signs of death to the blasphemers, etc. I want to applaud the NYT for publishing Ms Le Pens, oped. Bravo! It is time to look this problem square in the face. No more "Islam is a peaceful religion". We have eyes and ears. Until Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and all "Peaceful" Islamic nations come on CNN and unconditionally condemn this barbaric act along with all the others that are being committed in the name of Islam then I for one will not believe that Islam is a peaceful religion or way of life that is capable of coexisting among the Nations of the Western World. This is time for us all to stand back, be quiet, and wait to see if we hear that voice. If not then we have our answer. Silence is acceptance. I want to see the Heads of State denounce these people and what they stand for. No excuses. None. We have to call this what it is. Barbarism. I also want to see a "sweep" by Saudi Government and every other Islamic state seeking to be part of the free world to rid their borders of these criminals, and jail them. I'll be waiting.
3
Former colonial powers such as France have never been able to reconcile what it means to be French; is France a nation, or a distinct tribe or people? It is this dilemma that now plagues France and other European states, the crisis of blood identity and the modern nation state. I would suggest that in the future, big powers should refrain from imperialist behaviors, such as colonization. France, and their colonialist brethren only have themselves to blame.
"Homo sapiens is the species that invents symbols in which to invest passion and authority, then forgets that symbols are inventions." - Joyce Carol Oates
~~
Excellent essay. Bravo. I'm startled that there are no border checks in place currently or that jihadis retain their citizenship without challenge, at least a psych exam.
It is interesting what we call things and how name gain lives of their own. Religion, the strange illusion called faith, and belief in superstitions, in what are supposed to be secular civil societies, have held too high a place in the social order for centuries too long. Habits are hard to change but when change is needed violence is a pretty strong persuader.
The religious moderate tills the soil from which sprouts the violent radical of the form. The moderate also provides the forest into which the radical runs to hide when his dirty deeds are done. The religious is responsible for the religious fanatic, and it is time they came to grips with what they can do to stop religious violence.
laïcité
~~
Excellent essay. Bravo. I'm startled that there are no border checks in place currently or that jihadis retain their citizenship without challenge, at least a psych exam.
It is interesting what we call things and how name gain lives of their own. Religion, the strange illusion called faith, and belief in superstitions, in what are supposed to be secular civil societies, have held too high a place in the social order for centuries too long. Habits are hard to change but when change is needed violence is a pretty strong persuader.
The religious moderate tills the soil from which sprouts the violent radical of the form. The moderate also provides the forest into which the radical runs to hide when his dirty deeds are done. The religious is responsible for the religious fanatic, and it is time they came to grips with what they can do to stop religious violence.
laïcité
3
Although more articulate than our Tea Partiers, Ms LePen is so far right-wing she's seeking to capitalize on her country's recent tragedy to gin up her fear-and-loathing based party. Not unexpected, but surprising to see here.
Many of us, Ms LePen, are well aware of you & your father's views for many years. Now instead of Jews and Holocaust denial it's Muslims. NF: always divisive, always finding an audience by hawking fear & distrust.
In the US you'd be at home with the White Supremacists.
In the end you're just like our crummiest politicians, trying to score politically off a time when the country needs to come together.
Many of us, Ms LePen, are well aware of you & your father's views for many years. Now instead of Jews and Holocaust denial it's Muslims. NF: always divisive, always finding an audience by hawking fear & distrust.
In the US you'd be at home with the White Supremacists.
In the end you're just like our crummiest politicians, trying to score politically off a time when the country needs to come together.
3
Well, bravo for name-calling, I guess.
One fears however that by the time Foreign Minister Fabius and his boss, President Hollande, start calling terrorists by their rightful names, ISIS will be goose-stepping through the Arc de Triomphe de l'Étoile -- c'est la gare.
One fears however that by the time Foreign Minister Fabius and his boss, President Hollande, start calling terrorists by their rightful names, ISIS will be goose-stepping through the Arc de Triomphe de l'Étoile -- c'est la gare.
3
We have the mistaken impression in this country that to consider any aspect of limitation on immigration is to join the forces of bigotry and ignorance, to align with the "nativist" views that caused protest on immigration in the 19th and early 20th century. The fashionable view is that we should all be marching to multi-culturalism, embracing all cultures as equal or better than our own, without any judgment
There is a point at which immigration could begin to overpower the desires of the current majority of Americans and threaten social and political institutions and practices. To recognize that such a point exists is not to embrace ignorance, but to acknowledge fact and history
Too much, too fast is a path toward that time. If people live in close quarters not speaking the same languages, not sharing any common outlook on life and harboring treasured, generational resentments, trouble will follow and, in all likelihood, big trouble. This explains some of what is happening in France.
We need immigrants to contribute to the vitality of America, just like we need young people untarnished by the cynicism of the mature. We don't need people who detest America and its culture, who might come here only for the money and resent every moment in westernized culture. We don't need people to come here to study how to hate us. Care in immigration is not bigotry, just wise.
My comments are not in anyway intended to align with Ms. Le Pen, except in general subject matter.
Doug Terry
There is a point at which immigration could begin to overpower the desires of the current majority of Americans and threaten social and political institutions and practices. To recognize that such a point exists is not to embrace ignorance, but to acknowledge fact and history
Too much, too fast is a path toward that time. If people live in close quarters not speaking the same languages, not sharing any common outlook on life and harboring treasured, generational resentments, trouble will follow and, in all likelihood, big trouble. This explains some of what is happening in France.
We need immigrants to contribute to the vitality of America, just like we need young people untarnished by the cynicism of the mature. We don't need people who detest America and its culture, who might come here only for the money and resent every moment in westernized culture. We don't need people to come here to study how to hate us. Care in immigration is not bigotry, just wise.
My comments are not in anyway intended to align with Ms. Le Pen, except in general subject matter.
Doug Terry
3
Congratulations, New York Times, for your courageous continuing series, "Fawning Over Fascists."
And for allowing so many of your readers to come out of their closet. The closet under the manhole cover, that is.
And for allowing so many of your readers to come out of their closet. The closet under the manhole cover, that is.
4
2 misbegotten men caused mass bloodshed in France and Western Civilization becomes Charlie, the NY Times makes Marine Le Pen mainstream, and Islam is on trial.
What is clear is that the modern world, it's leaders (both Muslim and otherwise) and all its technological advances are rendered useless in the face of this low-tech yet rabidly forceful adversary. Furthermore, what ever progress was made in the last 60 years has been eroded by Guantanamos, the rise of the LePens and treacherous wars that have killed thousands of Muslim civilians.
All the while, we recorded the hottest year in recorded history. This is what progress looks like? We will never become Islamic scholars so we should stop trying - figure out what incentives will change behavior and implelement. Sadly, we are too addicted to oil to have the courage to do what's right - stand up against despotism. "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible make violent revolution inevitable." Yup - you could say that JFK predicted the rise ISIS.
What is clear is that the modern world, it's leaders (both Muslim and otherwise) and all its technological advances are rendered useless in the face of this low-tech yet rabidly forceful adversary. Furthermore, what ever progress was made in the last 60 years has been eroded by Guantanamos, the rise of the LePens and treacherous wars that have killed thousands of Muslim civilians.
All the while, we recorded the hottest year in recorded history. This is what progress looks like? We will never become Islamic scholars so we should stop trying - figure out what incentives will change behavior and implelement. Sadly, we are too addicted to oil to have the courage to do what's right - stand up against despotism. "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible make violent revolution inevitable." Yup - you could say that JFK predicted the rise ISIS.
Why are nations with a minority Muslim population fighting the extremists? If these extreme views are indeed a pollution of the Islamic faith, where are the billion true followers of Allah in all of this? Where are the leaders?
Why are we assuming they will be offended by a cartoon, but we never consider that they would be outraged, offended and driven to action by cold-blooded murder and torture in the name of their faith?
If the extremists are not representative of this religion, will the real Muslims please stand up and be heard? This is not Marine LePen's fight.
Why are we assuming they will be offended by a cartoon, but we never consider that they would be outraged, offended and driven to action by cold-blooded murder and torture in the name of their faith?
If the extremists are not representative of this religion, will the real Muslims please stand up and be heard? This is not Marine LePen's fight.
5
"Emergency measures" are the root of many modern mistakes including the excesses of the Patriot Act and NSA actions. While the actions of these Islamic terrorists are despicable, the magnitude of the concern does not rise to the level of national emergency. In fact, with many more victims, I do not think that the 9-11 attack represented a national emergency. On the governmental level, while security needs to be improved, let reasonable deliberation rule the day. On the societal level, the response of the cartoonists of Charlie Hebdo is exactly right. Keep doing what they have been doing without fear and hate. Indeed, stroking fear and xenophobia has always been the wedge for ultra-right wing politicians to rise to power. Remember Hitler.
1
Le Pen is absolutely spot on about one thing: strip the Jihadists of their citizenship. Britian is doing it. So should all other western European countries and the U.S. The fact that any person can fight for ISIS and then return home to enjoy the benefits of American or Western European citizenship is absolutely absurd. What are the intelligence services supposed to do? Sit there and watch them and hope they don't attack western targets?If someone is willing to self-identify as an islamic extremist and to renounce the values that created civilised and free societies, then let him or her stay permanently in Yemen or Syria and enjoy the fruits of those great and free societies. After living for a few decades in total economic privation under totalitarian control, let's see what they think of Europe.
Over the last week I have read in this paper that Jews from France are emigrating to Israel. Let me repeat that: Jews from FRANCE are emigrating. Something has gone SERIOUSLY wrong when Jews no longer feel safe in the heart of Western Europe, in a country that gave birth to a tolerant, open and egalitarian society. Something is serious wrong. It is completely unacceptable to Jews to be under threat in western Europe. Anything that threatens freedom and security in western societies must be deal with swiftly and ruthlessly.
Over the last week I have read in this paper that Jews from France are emigrating to Israel. Let me repeat that: Jews from FRANCE are emigrating. Something has gone SERIOUSLY wrong when Jews no longer feel safe in the heart of Western Europe, in a country that gave birth to a tolerant, open and egalitarian society. Something is serious wrong. It is completely unacceptable to Jews to be under threat in western Europe. Anything that threatens freedom and security in western societies must be deal with swiftly and ruthlessly.
6
It's high time our leaders in west call spade for spade. There is big conflict in our values with Radical Islamist. We stand for a free society with Liberty and justice for all irrespective of color, race and religion. Those who migrate to west should accept our ways and should not ask to mend our values to accept theirs. If they don't like our values and they can go where ever they find their values and denounce their rights of being a citizen of our society. It seems these terrorist likes our economy ,science, technology but don't like our values .They like to kill those who do not think like them in our society- where freedom of speech is enshrined as our fundamental rights. I wish our leaders have courage to call such acts as a terrorist act on our society and put pressure on countries who support such ideology . This should be wake up call for all of us in USA and
Our leaders should seriously think of revoking their citizenship and send them back to country who support them- Qatar or Saudi Arab, Pakistan. These people are trying to hijack their religion . Also I would once like to see all moderate people- Buddhists, Christians, Hindus , Muslims- to come out in droves everywhere in the world to protest against such acts what Parisians did after the terrorist attack in Paris.
Our leaders should seriously think of revoking their citizenship and send them back to country who support them- Qatar or Saudi Arab, Pakistan. These people are trying to hijack their religion . Also I would once like to see all moderate people- Buddhists, Christians, Hindus , Muslims- to come out in droves everywhere in the world to protest against such acts what Parisians did after the terrorist attack in Paris.
3
I am surprised that the NYT printed this op-ed. Surprised because I was of the mistaken belief that opinions from someone like Ms. Le Pen would never see the light of day in most US papers. I am not sure where I actually stand on her beliefs but I do see her as a concerned citizen.
1
As a long-time admirer of the French Revolution (sans the extremism of Robespierre, et al.) and the French laïcité, I can sympathize with France's reaction to Islamic fundamentalism and the extremists and jihadists who claim to be Islam's defenders. However I certainly would understand the reluctance and/or unwillingness of French Muslims to join ranks with Le Pen. She, her father and the Front National party she leads are simply freighted with too much xenophobia and racism for any rational Muslim to ignore.
If one is serious about recruiting mainstream French Muslims to the side of people like Ms. Le Pen in the "war" against Islamic extremists, it's not enough to invoke the "sacred values of liberté, égalité, fraternité". Nor is it sufficient to accuse and condemn those who murder, plunder, rape and enslave in the name of Islam as "evildoers" debasing their god and "prophet" and bringing shame upon their religion.
If Le Pen expects mainstream Muslims to join her on the ramparts of France to fight against those who purport to be "defenders of Islam", she will need to convince Muslims that she is not the xenophobic, racist apple of her daddy's eye that she seems to be. If she can reach out to French Muslims in an authentic act of repudiation of everything derogatory she, her father and the NF have said or promulgated about Muslims (and while she's at it, African-French), her call to join arms might be succeed. Until then, most Muslims will continue to sit on their hands.
If one is serious about recruiting mainstream French Muslims to the side of people like Ms. Le Pen in the "war" against Islamic extremists, it's not enough to invoke the "sacred values of liberté, égalité, fraternité". Nor is it sufficient to accuse and condemn those who murder, plunder, rape and enslave in the name of Islam as "evildoers" debasing their god and "prophet" and bringing shame upon their religion.
If Le Pen expects mainstream Muslims to join her on the ramparts of France to fight against those who purport to be "defenders of Islam", she will need to convince Muslims that she is not the xenophobic, racist apple of her daddy's eye that she seems to be. If she can reach out to French Muslims in an authentic act of repudiation of everything derogatory she, her father and the NF have said or promulgated about Muslims (and while she's at it, African-French), her call to join arms might be succeed. Until then, most Muslims will continue to sit on their hands.
4
how about we stop identifying people by their religion altogether? how would you feel, M. Le Pen, if you were called upon to defend every slight, every sin, every crime committed by any french person, any christian, any white person? people just want to live their lives.
“When you call yourself an Indian or a Muslim or a Christian or a European, or anything else, you are being violent. Do you see why it is violent? Because you are separating yourself from the rest of mankind. When you separate yourself by belief, by nationality, by tradition, it breeds violence. So a man who is seeking to understand violence does not belong to any country, to any religion, to any political party or partial system; he is concerned with the total understanding of mankind.” – jiddu krishnamurti
“When you call yourself an Indian or a Muslim or a Christian or a European, or anything else, you are being violent. Do you see why it is violent? Because you are separating yourself from the rest of mankind. When you separate yourself by belief, by nationality, by tradition, it breeds violence. So a man who is seeking to understand violence does not belong to any country, to any religion, to any political party or partial system; he is concerned with the total understanding of mankind.” – jiddu krishnamurti
15
Yes, she has been portrayed as a dangerous right winger. I can't judge whether that was a just description, because I don't know enough about French politics.
Not calling criminals by their names, though, is a truly annoying development you can run into all over Europe, not just France. It was time to say so, and loud.
Not calling criminals by their names, though, is a truly annoying development you can run into all over Europe, not just France. It was time to say so, and loud.
11
There is is a common tactic in these editorial pages to give voice to the "alternative" i.e. none liberal viewpoint, by means of either extreme right wing spokespersons or unqualified writers. This way they can make a show of presenting a balanced argument but at the same time insidiously frame the argument as the voice of reason vs the voice of extremism
10
One hopes that opposition to Ms. Le Pen's prior positions and statements does not automatically blind or deafen others to what she is saying now. It is impossible to deal with any problem in this world if we cannot acknowledge what it is. The murders at Charlie Hebdo and Hyper Kacher were the product of Islamist supremacism, and until such time as people are comfortable admitting that there is no hope that it can be dealt with.
23
Not to be cynical, but Marine Le Pen has been an unabashed racist, like her father. Either she has seen the light and has modified her views in this essay after the horrible attacks in Paris, or she is being utterly opportunist in stating palatable views that capitalize on the Charlie Hebdo tragedy. Her views in the past have been unambiguously hostile to all Muslims in France, whatever their political persuasion.
If she is now willing to have France become a tolerant and multi-cultural nation, so much the better. Brava for her. Of course France always saw itself as multi-cultural and secular until Jacques Le Pen and his daughter gained traction on the French political scene.
Still I remain skeptical about her conversion based on a single essay.
If she is now willing to have France become a tolerant and multi-cultural nation, so much the better. Brava for her. Of course France always saw itself as multi-cultural and secular until Jacques Le Pen and his daughter gained traction on the French political scene.
Still I remain skeptical about her conversion based on a single essay.
20
Cancer is the perfect analogy for this next war a free world fights against terrorism. It requires tighter immigration, tighter watch over social media and religious groups that seek to hurt their state of residence or seek to fight external battles and must impose loss of citizenship for such folks and their support structures. Free society needs a better immune system or pay a hefty price! We in the US have come a long way from our earlier days of innocence!
6
I guess I should be shocked that this tin-pot fascist is getting so many comments of approval from the mostly liberal readers of the NYT.
But alas, I am not. First of all, we liberals are often our own worst enemies in our "tolerance" for things we don't like, even in this case an intolerant right-wing nut masquerading as a reasonable person.
Second, unless you know about how fascism works on an insidious level of combining middle-class socialism and xenophobia, you can easily fall prey to some good sounding" ideas from a fascist like Le Pen.
Third, the natural liberal compulsion to reject Islamist savagery and nod in approval to what she is saying here.
I wil remind everyone that fascists usually get themselves elected with a plurality whenever they rear their ugly heads.
Do NOT fall for this.
But alas, I am not. First of all, we liberals are often our own worst enemies in our "tolerance" for things we don't like, even in this case an intolerant right-wing nut masquerading as a reasonable person.
Second, unless you know about how fascism works on an insidious level of combining middle-class socialism and xenophobia, you can easily fall prey to some good sounding" ideas from a fascist like Le Pen.
Third, the natural liberal compulsion to reject Islamist savagery and nod in approval to what she is saying here.
I wil remind everyone that fascists usually get themselves elected with a plurality whenever they rear their ugly heads.
Do NOT fall for this.
22
Freedom.....to jail comedians for off putting comments?
Upon analysis, I think all the talk of "freedom" in France is highly exaggerated. There's no First Amendment in France and nothing like it. Let's not fool ourselves either, Le Pen wants to defend old, white French culture. That's not a judgement but rather a fact. The courier today in the New York Times of the "freedom" message in France is the National Front. This further supports my claim that talk of freedom in France is highly exaggerated.
If you listen carefully and avoid the political slogans, it's not a cry to freedom you hear, but a cry to defend and conserve old French culture.
Upon analysis, I think all the talk of "freedom" in France is highly exaggerated. There's no First Amendment in France and nothing like it. Let's not fool ourselves either, Le Pen wants to defend old, white French culture. That's not a judgement but rather a fact. The courier today in the New York Times of the "freedom" message in France is the National Front. This further supports my claim that talk of freedom in France is highly exaggerated.
If you listen carefully and avoid the political slogans, it's not a cry to freedom you hear, but a cry to defend and conserve old French culture.
14
There is a principal disconnect that leads to the divergent views espoused here - an idea that the rest of the world should be like the USA. A melting pot where ingredients from all corners of the world must mingle to create a heady stew. We are a nation of immigrants. France is not. There is but one small country in the world that is steeped in French language and culture. That insight, those traditions are valuable.
The French have an idealistic liberal view where they feel that it is only right to help any asylum seeker, and that any former colonized man or woman has a right to live in the land of their masters. They have a concurrent pride in all things French. This has led to segregation and contradictions. The riots of Paris a few years ago were not the work of Islamic fundamentalists - they were the cries of a disenchanted and marginalized minority for help...
The French need to decide what they want their country to be - if they want to dilute their identity, they need to have real mechanisms in place for assimilation. If they want to preserve uniqueness, they need to shut the borders. I for one, would rather live in a world full of distinctions and diversity.
An old joke came to mind as I read Ms Le Pen:
For Sale: WWII French Rifle. Never Fired, Dropped once.
The French Bureau-politic needs to awaken and realize that things have gone too far... If terrorists march down the Champs Elysses, there won't be any Yankees arriving to save the French way of life.
The French have an idealistic liberal view where they feel that it is only right to help any asylum seeker, and that any former colonized man or woman has a right to live in the land of their masters. They have a concurrent pride in all things French. This has led to segregation and contradictions. The riots of Paris a few years ago were not the work of Islamic fundamentalists - they were the cries of a disenchanted and marginalized minority for help...
The French need to decide what they want their country to be - if they want to dilute their identity, they need to have real mechanisms in place for assimilation. If they want to preserve uniqueness, they need to shut the borders. I for one, would rather live in a world full of distinctions and diversity.
An old joke came to mind as I read Ms Le Pen:
For Sale: WWII French Rifle. Never Fired, Dropped once.
The French Bureau-politic needs to awaken and realize that things have gone too far... If terrorists march down the Champs Elysses, there won't be any Yankees arriving to save the French way of life.
6
Western ideals of liberty are worth defending. It's been disheartening to see certain countries (eg, France) pretending otherwise by celebrating certain intellectual trends which undermined the difference between the West and the rest (eg, relativism and multiculturalism), not to mention the defense of Western values. (BTW, I am neither white nor from the West.) It's good to see France throwing off it's juvenile pretensions of higher more inclusive Enlightenment. I hope we will see the same in the rest of Europe and the US.
8
Le Pen should share her message with the U.S. President as well.
It was embarrassing to watch Mr. Obama stand alongside UK Prime Minister David Cameron, who called the threat what it is: a "very serious Islamist extremist terrorist threat."
Obama did not use the word "Islamist" - despite more Muslim leaders than ever speaking out against "radical Islam" and its serious threats.
The problem is rooted in violent Islamic interpretations of the Quran and the hadith. Let's call it what it is, Mr. President.
It was embarrassing to watch Mr. Obama stand alongside UK Prime Minister David Cameron, who called the threat what it is: a "very serious Islamist extremist terrorist threat."
Obama did not use the word "Islamist" - despite more Muslim leaders than ever speaking out against "radical Islam" and its serious threats.
The problem is rooted in violent Islamic interpretations of the Quran and the hadith. Let's call it what it is, Mr. President.
21
I probably wouldn't agree with Marine Le Pen about many things, but she is absolutely correct about the importance of using the word "Islamic" to describe the murderous and insane activities of most terrorists of the 21st century. Our collective failure to indict the ideology (i.e., Islam) which inspires ISIS, Al Qaeda and the like is really crazy. President Obama may be the chief culprit of this dangerous myopia. Constantly hearing that Islam is a peaceful religion is starting to sound rather hollow.
25
What hypocrisy in the name of political correctness does is pushes right-thinking and progressive people further into what is disingenuously called Islamophobia. No one need fear Islam. Just stop meting out special treatment to this religion and its followers, and all will be fine.
6
It saddens me to see a representative of La Front National given a platform and the aura of legitimacy by the New York Times. Most Americans have no reason to be familiar with the politics of Marine or Jean-Marie Le Pen. They deserve better. Will we soon read the contributions of political figures such as David Duke?
22
"For now, one emergency measure can readily be put into action: Stripping jihadists of their French citizenship is an absolute necessity." Because the jihadists carry identity cards marked "jihadist," so this would be a completely clear and straightforward process, with no cases of mistaken identity.
16
Marine Le Pen is a driver of racism in Europe and here would spread racism to the United States. A column dripping of prejudice, of no redeeming value. Yuck.
47
It all sounds quite reasonable, but I was shocked that the New York Times would publish what is essentially an electioneering promotion from one of the new European collaborators of racism.
In England, the UKIP party is in ascendancy, but recently they have discovered another much more sensible and forward-looking "fringe" party, the Greens, who by being publicly marginalized captured the public's attention and have grown enormously in one week!
There is a problem with marginalized communities and desperation, which is so easily guided into adolescent fervor, but the solution is not to go all tribal and blame others for our inability to share.
I can't deny the appeal of this seemingly straightforward argument, but knowing the history of the Le Pens, I cannot think we would be well served to not look below the surface and find out the real agenda, the agenda of dividing and excluding, that drives the argument.
In England, the UKIP party is in ascendancy, but recently they have discovered another much more sensible and forward-looking "fringe" party, the Greens, who by being publicly marginalized captured the public's attention and have grown enormously in one week!
There is a problem with marginalized communities and desperation, which is so easily guided into adolescent fervor, but the solution is not to go all tribal and blame others for our inability to share.
I can't deny the appeal of this seemingly straightforward argument, but knowing the history of the Le Pens, I cannot think we would be well served to not look below the surface and find out the real agenda, the agenda of dividing and excluding, that drives the argument.
39
Wasn't UKIP's Nigel Farage one of the chief purveyors of #FoxNewsFacts about "no-go zones" last week?
Without endorsing all of Dr. Bill Warner's views, here is a classification of his that may help in clarity. Note that in the orthodox reading of Islamic texts - the Quran, Sira, Hadith - the Golden Rule applies only to believers, not to kafirs. The Golden Rule Muslim is one who applies the golden rule to all, these are our friends, neighbors, colleagues. There is the Meccan Muslim, who is primarily a religious person without the jihadic politics. We might compare these to the Ultraorthodox Jews in our midst.
Then there is the Medinian Muslim, who is a political Muslim. Imam Rauf of the 9/11 mosque notoriety is one such. Many are peaceful, and as such, have to be afforded the freedom of political expression that is an ideal in our societies. They shouldn't be allowed to hide behind the fig leaf of religious freedom however. They are opposed to some of our most cherished principles, and are our political opponents. But our conception of liberty allows for that.
Among the Medinian Muslims, there is the faction that thinks violent jihad is permissible, even mandatory. These are our enemies. The Medinian Muslim also targets the Golden Rule Muslim.
Complicating life is of course the fact that no one is simply a pure one of these types.
Then there is the Medinian Muslim, who is a political Muslim. Imam Rauf of the 9/11 mosque notoriety is one such. Many are peaceful, and as such, have to be afforded the freedom of political expression that is an ideal in our societies. They shouldn't be allowed to hide behind the fig leaf of religious freedom however. They are opposed to some of our most cherished principles, and are our political opponents. But our conception of liberty allows for that.
Among the Medinian Muslims, there is the faction that thinks violent jihad is permissible, even mandatory. These are our enemies. The Medinian Muslim also targets the Golden Rule Muslim.
Complicating life is of course the fact that no one is simply a pure one of these types.
20
I'm not sure you can pick and choose between the Medina Quran and the Mecca Quran. I wish you could, though, and we could hope for the rise of Meccan Islam.
But isn't there a universal principal of abrogation in Islam that repeals any Meccan verse that contradicts a Medinian verse?
The existence of a majority of peaceful Muslims in our midst is a reality; but Islam as such carries little hope for reform.
But isn't there a universal principal of abrogation in Islam that repeals any Meccan verse that contradicts a Medinian verse?
The existence of a majority of peaceful Muslims in our midst is a reality; but Islam as such carries little hope for reform.
I mostly agree with Madame Le Pen; my only questions are how come French people were silent when France invaded Libya to topple Qaddafi (I have my reservation for what happened in Libya); secondly why the French and the West were sending/facilitating fighters to go to Syria to topple Assad? These were the two major events that may be resulting in the chicken coming home to roost. As far as these columns are concerned you would find plenty of comments mentioning and highlighting the impending problem of returning well trained and armed Jihadis from both battle zones. Major pieces have appeared in this paper as well as times such as the one by Fareed Zakaria http://ti.me/1oLey0p .
You being French have singled out France for their approach towards the Jihadi’s hornet’s nest Saudi Arabia and Qatar. There is plenty of blame to go around and the US even right after 9-11 during President Bush, Cheney era were awfully quiet and helpful to the Saudis and Bin Laden’s family by evacuating them right away to safety.
Expecting the US to act against the interest of the Saudis, (although we hold most if not all their money in our banks) has been for some reason a no-go area. Maybe there is another secret agreement we did with Abdul Aziz Ibn Saud on SS Quincy that is still a secret.
Good luck stopping the flow of funds from the Saudis and Qataris to the Jihadis worldwide. We here in this country have not yet been able to do that or maybe we just do not want to.
You being French have singled out France for their approach towards the Jihadi’s hornet’s nest Saudi Arabia and Qatar. There is plenty of blame to go around and the US even right after 9-11 during President Bush, Cheney era were awfully quiet and helpful to the Saudis and Bin Laden’s family by evacuating them right away to safety.
Expecting the US to act against the interest of the Saudis, (although we hold most if not all their money in our banks) has been for some reason a no-go area. Maybe there is another secret agreement we did with Abdul Aziz Ibn Saud on SS Quincy that is still a secret.
Good luck stopping the flow of funds from the Saudis and Qataris to the Jihadis worldwide. We here in this country have not yet been able to do that or maybe we just do not want to.
6
I am a liberal by inclination, but Ms Le Pen's commentary is precise, clear and logically argued. If this is the quality of her normal discourse and analysis, I am not surprised at all that her party has been surging in the polls.
For all countries, border control and immigration are policies of choice. If they need to be fixed to solve a particular problem, the lenses of ideology should be discarded and the due merits of the proposed solutions debated. Ms Le Pen is correct to criticize an attitude that dismisses such arguments out of hand.
I commend the NYTimes for translating and publishing her commentary; I had long been under the mistaken impression that she was just another right wing racist. Clearly i must now re-assess.
For all countries, border control and immigration are policies of choice. If they need to be fixed to solve a particular problem, the lenses of ideology should be discarded and the due merits of the proposed solutions debated. Ms Le Pen is correct to criticize an attitude that dismisses such arguments out of hand.
I commend the NYTimes for translating and publishing her commentary; I had long been under the mistaken impression that she was just another right wing racist. Clearly i must now re-assess.
74
A cynic could very easily disparage the Old Europe’s efforts (with fresh post-WWII mentality) to permanently solve the Jewish problem in 1948 (that has been just revived by this literally work of Marine Le Pen). Just send them into the middle of the Muslim world…
If one side wins, great! If another side wins, even better! If both sides lost, that would be the best!
When you push two groups into the endless conflict (sixty six years and counting), of course that both sides will be radicalized, militarized, antagonistic and extremist…
The best part is you even get a chance to blame the victims for being like this…
Marine Le Pen has indicated that the Old Europe hasn’t changed the mind since. How to solve the Muslim problem in 2015? Just send them back to the Middle East!
If one side wins, great! If another side wins, even better! If both sides lost, that would be the best!
When you push two groups into the endless conflict (sixty six years and counting), of course that both sides will be radicalized, militarized, antagonistic and extremist…
The best part is you even get a chance to blame the victims for being like this…
Marine Le Pen has indicated that the Old Europe hasn’t changed the mind since. How to solve the Muslim problem in 2015? Just send them back to the Middle East!
2
Ms.Pen about Islamic terrorism is not well thought out.Terrorism is something
that humankind should hate and do whatever needed to stop it.Any religion now days is being used by these terrorist.Everybody knows that there are terrorist in every religion and they use religion as they wish but every religion in reality
preaches that killing some body is a sin.State supported terrorist and non state
terrorists are all same.As a Muslim I am also afraid of these terrorist as they do not differentiate even between Sunni Muslims and Shia Muslim.As such their target is/will be some body who do not support or view their way.In middle East
we have Dictators/States that kill people just because innocent people do not agree with them.So what I am supposed to do?.Best option for me is stay away
from these people who believe that their Religion make them to do these kind
of worst things.Unfortunately Big powers do create these kind of people in first
place by occupying their land,countries and when kind of people turn around
then what is use of blame game of playing with these religious fanatics.Do not blame Religions and always mention terrorists as terrorists of which country or
place of origin (like middle east ).By putting pressure on billions of Muslims/or any faith do hurt people who have nothing common with terrorism
that humankind should hate and do whatever needed to stop it.Any religion now days is being used by these terrorist.Everybody knows that there are terrorist in every religion and they use religion as they wish but every religion in reality
preaches that killing some body is a sin.State supported terrorist and non state
terrorists are all same.As a Muslim I am also afraid of these terrorist as they do not differentiate even between Sunni Muslims and Shia Muslim.As such their target is/will be some body who do not support or view their way.In middle East
we have Dictators/States that kill people just because innocent people do not agree with them.So what I am supposed to do?.Best option for me is stay away
from these people who believe that their Religion make them to do these kind
of worst things.Unfortunately Big powers do create these kind of people in first
place by occupying their land,countries and when kind of people turn around
then what is use of blame game of playing with these religious fanatics.Do not blame Religions and always mention terrorists as terrorists of which country or
place of origin (like middle east ).By putting pressure on billions of Muslims/or any faith do hurt people who have nothing common with terrorism
8
Ms. Le Pen is winning many accolades; I think she's earned them. I have no doubt her father's wacky statements must embarrass her. Calling Ms Le Pen "right wing" just doesn't have the sting any more considering the persons she's been warning us about want to chop our heads off.
I think the French people are going to be more receptive to her message of common sense than to the deniers who want to pretend if we just make nice with these killers and give them more taxpayers monies, they might just stop killing us.
As Ms. Pen suggested, take their passports and revoke their citizenship. Let them live in their desired Caliphate.
And for the love of Pete, leave the rest of us alone.
I think the French people are going to be more receptive to her message of common sense than to the deniers who want to pretend if we just make nice with these killers and give them more taxpayers monies, they might just stop killing us.
As Ms. Pen suggested, take their passports and revoke their citizenship. Let them live in their desired Caliphate.
And for the love of Pete, leave the rest of us alone.
65
Honesty & truth. How refreshing. No wonder she's labeled as a right wing extremist in France.
59
This was a powerful essay. It is not productive to paint the author with any kind of political brush in an attempt to diminish the force and passion of her words. In fact doing so is counterproductive.
She is arguing that France is a fiercely secular society. Their policies appear to be the opposite of racial profiling. They want no restrictions placed upon travel and immigration.
These are lofty and idealistic goals worthy of applause. Unfortunately, the conditions of the world do not allow for such openness anymore. Pragmatism must be injected into ideology.
A core component of Islam is that it is in contradiction with a secular society. Islam is a way to live and be governed. It is not just a way to worship. This conflict may be causing tremendous friction and tension with French culture.
Secondly, Islam has always rejected the ways of the infidel, the West. This attitude creates a barrier to assimilation causing further tension. She is stating that her nation refuses to recognize these to issues by papering them over with word games and does nothing. Her essay argues that France has built a nest for radical Islam to grow with its policies. She may very well be correct. Even if many do not like what she is saying for political reasons, she should still be listened to.
The world has changed. We cannot ignore those changes by playing word games and clinging to the idealistic ways of the past. Word games do not solve problems. They only hide them.
She is arguing that France is a fiercely secular society. Their policies appear to be the opposite of racial profiling. They want no restrictions placed upon travel and immigration.
These are lofty and idealistic goals worthy of applause. Unfortunately, the conditions of the world do not allow for such openness anymore. Pragmatism must be injected into ideology.
A core component of Islam is that it is in contradiction with a secular society. Islam is a way to live and be governed. It is not just a way to worship. This conflict may be causing tremendous friction and tension with French culture.
Secondly, Islam has always rejected the ways of the infidel, the West. This attitude creates a barrier to assimilation causing further tension. She is stating that her nation refuses to recognize these to issues by papering them over with word games and does nothing. Her essay argues that France has built a nest for radical Islam to grow with its policies. She may very well be correct. Even if many do not like what she is saying for political reasons, she should still be listened to.
The world has changed. We cannot ignore those changes by playing word games and clinging to the idealistic ways of the past. Word games do not solve problems. They only hide them.
74
Excellent analysis. Now explain the Puritans.
[[Third, French foreign policy has wandered between Scylla and Charybdis in the last few years. Former President Nicolas Sarkozy’s intervention in Libya, President François Hollande’s support for some Syrian fundamentalists, alliances formed with rentier states that finance jihadist fighters, like Qatar and Saudi Arabia — all are mistakes that have plunged France into serious geopolitical incoherence from which it is struggling to extricate itself. ]]
I'm amusing myself by trying to imagine George W. Bush understanding that paragraph, much less him being able to formulate it.
I'm amusing myself by trying to imagine George W. Bush understanding that paragraph, much less him being able to formulate it.
17
Marine Le Pen is a right winger with cruel simplistic answers to complicated immigration problems however she is far superior, capable and articulate than any of our republican or even maybe democrat elected official leaders and this is because France has a complex portional representation system as opposed to the U.S. where first past the cowboy post is still in effect and prisoners inside or outside cannot vote - mainly.
3
If Marine Le Pen were a mirror, it would tell us the French culture has failed the world for creating the extremists like she is.
Her state of mind consisting of the following mantra: “We are perfect and the problems were created by somebody else” has been proved wrong by history over the last few millenniums. There are no perfect people, perfect cultures and perfect individuals...
France as a permanent member of the UN Security Council has been no better than Nazi Germany in principle. Hitler wanted to ethnically cleanse all the Jews from Europe and France wanted to expel all the Palestinians from their homeland.
It’s outrageous that one group of people has been deprived of their fundamental human rights like freedom of self-determination, freedom of movement, freedom to live, freedom to private property, and freedom of returning home for 66 years and that France has had no problem with those tragic conditions.
Luckily, the Muslim world didn’t blame the Christian extremism for such inhuman treatment of millions of people.
The Muslim world has just blamed the catastrophically bad leaders in London and Paris for undermining the universal system of fundamental human rights and values in 1948 by trying to divide the first neighbors based on their religious and ethnic traits instead of encouraging and teaching them to live in democratic and secular society with the equal rights for everybody…
Her state of mind consisting of the following mantra: “We are perfect and the problems were created by somebody else” has been proved wrong by history over the last few millenniums. There are no perfect people, perfect cultures and perfect individuals...
France as a permanent member of the UN Security Council has been no better than Nazi Germany in principle. Hitler wanted to ethnically cleanse all the Jews from Europe and France wanted to expel all the Palestinians from their homeland.
It’s outrageous that one group of people has been deprived of their fundamental human rights like freedom of self-determination, freedom of movement, freedom to live, freedom to private property, and freedom of returning home for 66 years and that France has had no problem with those tragic conditions.
Luckily, the Muslim world didn’t blame the Christian extremism for such inhuman treatment of millions of people.
The Muslim world has just blamed the catastrophically bad leaders in London and Paris for undermining the universal system of fundamental human rights and values in 1948 by trying to divide the first neighbors based on their religious and ethnic traits instead of encouraging and teaching them to live in democratic and secular society with the equal rights for everybody…
1
It is shocking to read the head of the National Front writing on the Op-Ed pages of the New York Times. Jean-Marie Le Pen. She has, in the past few years, managed what her father never did: to give it the party a veneer of respectability. Yet the message remains strikingly similar in its substance and its refusal to acknowledge any of the complexities of France's relationship to immigrants, to Islam, and to its own colonial past. What Marine Le Pen really calls for is not a celebration of "liberté, fraternité, égalité," but an attempt to excuse a series of authoritarian steps that will dramatically undermine the freedom and dignity of all French people.
Marine Le Pen seeks to align her party with the critique of Islamic extremism in the pages of Charlie Hebdo. Yet the journalists and satirists of Charlie Hebdo have long recognized and savagely mocked the intolerance of the Front National. There is something indecent about Marine Le Pen's attempt to burnish her party's images with the tragedy that befell people whose iconoclastic and libertarian values clash so fundamentally with her party's authoritarianism.
Marine Le Pen seeks to align her party with the critique of Islamic extremism in the pages of Charlie Hebdo. Yet the journalists and satirists of Charlie Hebdo have long recognized and savagely mocked the intolerance of the Front National. There is something indecent about Marine Le Pen's attempt to burnish her party's images with the tragedy that befell people whose iconoclastic and libertarian values clash so fundamentally with her party's authoritarianism.
30
Marie Le Pen in the NYT.
I consider all this to be what should be a wake up call for the left, which if unable to reclaim confidence in the universal application of its values, will lose to people like Le Pen (who is now arguing robustly in terms that used to be considered the signature left values).
It is true that neoliberalism can be and is used a pretext for war and invasion but, for example, you will never. ever find a Glenn Greenwald type of liberal acknowledge that his beliefs on universal rights and specific attachment to feminism, gay rights etc... comes from a particular intellectual, cultural and moral tradition., and that that tradition is worth upholding.
I consider all this to be what should be a wake up call for the left, which if unable to reclaim confidence in the universal application of its values, will lose to people like Le Pen (who is now arguing robustly in terms that used to be considered the signature left values).
It is true that neoliberalism can be and is used a pretext for war and invasion but, for example, you will never. ever find a Glenn Greenwald type of liberal acknowledge that his beliefs on universal rights and specific attachment to feminism, gay rights etc... comes from a particular intellectual, cultural and moral tradition., and that that tradition is worth upholding.
11
Agreement takes hold here in the comments section, by majority it seems, which should frighten the dickens out of most of us living here in the USofA...how does the America of tolerance, of big hearted optimism become the frightened child convinced that strict border agents, demanding papers and examining luggage, will save the day? Do WWII films of train interdictions by steely eyed intelligence agents really provide such a motif? For that's what she's raising as a first order of action.
And isn't that always so with such things, haven't we learned anything from our last century of wars?
Apparently not.
For many comments applaud her remarks. They don't seem to know she's a fanatical fascist organization taking hold in France, and growing...evocative of nothing if not trainloads of immigrants, heading away, heading anywhere, as long as it's 'out' of 'our' country.
It alarms to see the bon vivant assents by the posters here from our country, charmed by her reflexive affinity for border actions, reflected perhaps in the comment section of these ny times, commenters who rush to these kind of stories and do not necessarily reflect times readership in general, still, all things considered... those knotty ropes gripped with fists determined to pull strongly with France? They are laboring for a fascism they have no historical knowledge of, at least not enough to serve as a deterrent.
And isn't that always so with such things, haven't we learned anything from our last century of wars?
Apparently not.
For many comments applaud her remarks. They don't seem to know she's a fanatical fascist organization taking hold in France, and growing...evocative of nothing if not trainloads of immigrants, heading away, heading anywhere, as long as it's 'out' of 'our' country.
It alarms to see the bon vivant assents by the posters here from our country, charmed by her reflexive affinity for border actions, reflected perhaps in the comment section of these ny times, commenters who rush to these kind of stories and do not necessarily reflect times readership in general, still, all things considered... those knotty ropes gripped with fists determined to pull strongly with France? They are laboring for a fascism they have no historical knowledge of, at least not enough to serve as a deterrent.
13
Mr. Scott, you make a decent point. Now, what is your alternative plan because it is unacceptable to remain passive when others come for you with guns and murder and destruction in mind.
Richard,
The question seems to be, is all opposition to high immigration rates illegitimate and a cover for racism? Or are there legitimate reasons in a civil society to adjust the inflow of immigration to insure assimilation is taking place? While you obviously don't consider mass immigration a problem, there are many people in both France, USA, and elsewhere who have serious economic or cultural concerns. By smearing all opposition as fascist and racist, you have delegitimized the debate. And only those voices who don't care about mainstream opinion will be willing to engage the issue that is affecting the lives of many people. So the radical extremes, whether fascists on the right or national socialists on the left, are given larger podium, because everyone in the middle is afraid to address the issue. That is what has happened with the National Front in France, and increasingly the tea party figures in the USA.
If you want to keep the radicals out, you need to treat the concerns of others as legitimate - even those tasteless white people without liberal arts degrees in the flyover states.
cheers,
Jack
The question seems to be, is all opposition to high immigration rates illegitimate and a cover for racism? Or are there legitimate reasons in a civil society to adjust the inflow of immigration to insure assimilation is taking place? While you obviously don't consider mass immigration a problem, there are many people in both France, USA, and elsewhere who have serious economic or cultural concerns. By smearing all opposition as fascist and racist, you have delegitimized the debate. And only those voices who don't care about mainstream opinion will be willing to engage the issue that is affecting the lives of many people. So the radical extremes, whether fascists on the right or national socialists on the left, are given larger podium, because everyone in the middle is afraid to address the issue. That is what has happened with the National Front in France, and increasingly the tea party figures in the USA.
If you want to keep the radicals out, you need to treat the concerns of others as legitimate - even those tasteless white people without liberal arts degrees in the flyover states.
cheers,
Jack
This is the head of a political party who represents the extreme right of French society. I lived in France From 1978 to 1995. I have known members of the Front National. Xenophobia is their raison d'etre. It's fervent are little different than our White Supremacists here in River City. Towns run by them, up until Marine's taking charge from her father insisted that soup for homeless always included pork.
The rise of this group came at the end of France's post WWII economic expansion when good jobs started becoming scarce for the working class.
Too bad that the Times editor granted her legitimacy, this event shall be marked as a low point of the paper's integrity.
The Times would serve justice better by publishing Nobel Prize winner,
J.M.G. Le Clézio's open letter to his daughter, published in Le Monde on January 16th. It's certainly a truthful counter vision of this crisis.
Though, it seems like the Anglo/American press decided to censor it.
(except for one excerpt in The Irish Times)
The rise of this group came at the end of France's post WWII economic expansion when good jobs started becoming scarce for the working class.
Too bad that the Times editor granted her legitimacy, this event shall be marked as a low point of the paper's integrity.
The Times would serve justice better by publishing Nobel Prize winner,
J.M.G. Le Clézio's open letter to his daughter, published in Le Monde on January 16th. It's certainly a truthful counter vision of this crisis.
Though, it seems like the Anglo/American press decided to censor it.
(except for one excerpt in The Irish Times)
20
Clark;
As far as Le Pen demonizes Islam it falls into the category of free speech.
"Hats off" to NYT for such an insightful article by French intellectual about a particular religion and its followers. Interestingly enough; there is nothing provocative or inflammatory about religious beliefs of Muslims or Islam!!!
As far as Le Pen demonizes Islam it falls into the category of free speech.
"Hats off" to NYT for such an insightful article by French intellectual about a particular religion and its followers. Interestingly enough; there is nothing provocative or inflammatory about religious beliefs of Muslims or Islam!!!
Should Americans know what Le Pen thinks? Yes. Should you offer her an op-ed platform? No. You can quote her at length; she is certainly newsworthy (hélas). Legitimizing her and her party by offering her this kind of imprimatur is a serious error of judgment.
19
Even more so as, to judge from the previous comments, she is seen as sweet reasonableness and intelligence itself. I too begin to question the NYTimes for allowing her a platform.
Nice talk . But where was France in 1940?
2
Fighting for their lives while the USA stood on the sidelines for two years.
may i remind you that in 1940 as in 1914 the war took place on the very French ground ? and sure we lost it in 1940 (already exhausted by ww1 ?). Thanks again for the help.
It is a contradiction, freedom and assimilation. It's unreasonable also to expect things to stay the same after accepting immigrants. The conservatives in the West are equally afraid of that which they criticize the Islamic states of refusing -- pluralism. A pluralistic French will not stay static; it necessarily changes, including that which is considered 'French.'
Fighting a war also necessitates some degrees of restrictions and non-openness, which runs counter to the very spirit of a free society. As much as we may not want to, we need to better watch our border, be cautious whom we call friends. For example, won't revoking the passports of jihadist who are citizens one way to restrict their easy movements between the West and the terrorist training grounds in the Middle East?
Fighting a war also necessitates some degrees of restrictions and non-openness, which runs counter to the very spirit of a free society. As much as we may not want to, we need to better watch our border, be cautious whom we call friends. For example, won't revoking the passports of jihadist who are citizens one way to restrict their easy movements between the West and the terrorist training grounds in the Middle East?
1
She makes some good points.
17
“To misname things is to add to the world’s unhappiness.” New York Times now printing arguments of French neofascists for your perusal, shaping tomorrow's photo copier discussion. Identical myopic hate argument appeared a few days ago on Fox News, courtesy of Judge Jeanine (albeit with less flair). These are strange times. The collective pursuit of truth must become a sort of secular, sacred religion if we are to make our way through this gathering storm, the rise of this dark authoritarianism, consciously and unconsciously leading us to terrible ruin. Perhaps this is a fundamental rule of human consciousness: truth is the path to happiness, truth shall set you free.
9
The New York Times should not be a forum for racist demagogues. Allowing xenophobia to masquerade as common sense by special pleading aimed to those ignorant of the actual causes and sources of terrorism (see, for instance the fact that Muslims were responsible for 2% of terrorist attacks in Europe over the past 5 years: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/01/14/are-all-terrorists-musl... is unconscionable. Shame.
13
2%? That needs to be investigated. Who are the others? Obviously the European media hides these stories. What does someone from a small town in upstate NY know about terrorism and lack of Muslim assimilation in Europe? Walk a mile in our shoes.
She does, on first impression, seem more reasonable than she is often given credit for. However, I must know: Will she repudiate her Father's statement that the holocaust was a mere detail of history.
15
This essay reminds me of The Rage and The Pride, Italian journalist Oriana Fallaci's critique of European political correctness that appeared in the wake of 9/11. Fallaci was reviled and dismissed as a crank by the bien-pensant Left, but recent events in France (where there were efforts to ban her book) have borne out her argument.
20
Ms. Pen's outrage is understandable, as most people find political correctness at least somewhat distasteful -- particularly when it appears to be motivated by fear.
But her solutions aren't actionable, unless she can muster enough French support to take Parliament, the presidency and the prime ministership. Europe would need to fundamentally change to reinstitute border checks, and western countries simply don't strip people born there of their citizenship -- as many among the Islamic in France are.
Yet, the notion of greater control over immigration, which would suggest border checks that also would facilitate better control of the illicit arms trade, is compelling -- so compelling that it calls into question the strategic viability of some assumptions underpinning the European Union itself.
France has the resources to protect itself within its own borders, just as the U.S. does. Regardless of what they say publically, they will need to expend some of those resources to keep better tabs on likely jihadists within their borders.
But Ms. Le Pen's voice clearly and stridently claims a French exceptionalism. Many are beginning to equate the troubles western countries are encountering generally, and not just with Islamist jihadism, with a notion of social égalité among cultures that is the antithesis of exceptionalism. To the extent that this trend accelerates, Ms. Le Pen may capture the necessary French constituency she needs to transform France, and with it Europe.
But her solutions aren't actionable, unless she can muster enough French support to take Parliament, the presidency and the prime ministership. Europe would need to fundamentally change to reinstitute border checks, and western countries simply don't strip people born there of their citizenship -- as many among the Islamic in France are.
Yet, the notion of greater control over immigration, which would suggest border checks that also would facilitate better control of the illicit arms trade, is compelling -- so compelling that it calls into question the strategic viability of some assumptions underpinning the European Union itself.
France has the resources to protect itself within its own borders, just as the U.S. does. Regardless of what they say publically, they will need to expend some of those resources to keep better tabs on likely jihadists within their borders.
But Ms. Le Pen's voice clearly and stridently claims a French exceptionalism. Many are beginning to equate the troubles western countries are encountering generally, and not just with Islamist jihadism, with a notion of social égalité among cultures that is the antithesis of exceptionalism. To the extent that this trend accelerates, Ms. Le Pen may capture the necessary French constituency she needs to transform France, and with it Europe.
2
Others more knowledgable have commented on Le Pen's stance on immigration in France and how it shades her view of Islam(ists). I'd just note that the article's premise about identifying the threat's "real name" seems wrongheaded in insisting on the name Islam at all. Out of respect for a presumed vast majority of Muslims who abhor terrorist actions "in their name", why not insist on refusing a connection to Islam in the media, politics, and every other pathway to public sensibility. We call the terrorists Islamic because they say they are? Even when Imams around the globe call their actions the worst of perversions? When David Koresh rose to power in the early 90s, media and public sensibility managed to cut his actions off from Christianity and protect the latter's integrity through specific language ("cult", "renegade offshoot", "breakaway sect", and the more formal "Branch Davidian") that kept his lunacy conceptually isolated. But we do the opposite here by calling terrorists "Islamic".
9
The most perplexing issue to me is that if these terrorists are not Islamic, why do we provide them Korans and prayer rugs in their custodial facilities? Waiting with bated breath for a reasonable answer.
Ms. Le Pen speaks with clarity, yet most of us know little enough about her to assess the credibility of this clarity. This is a start. Although the odds may be long, she is mentioned as a future President of France. That makes the decision by the Times to publish this piece a wise one. Those of us with enough interest will now want to learn more about her.
18
Right wing extremist recognize each other I suppose.
This problem we have what ever you call it isn't bound by national borders.
You can't make it go away by the action any one country takes withing its own borders.
The terrorist in France for example did not get their training in France .
You need to have some kind international effort to stop what is a fast becoming the number one threat to peace in the world.
I have an idea,
We get all the nations in the world to form an international body that can coordinate the action taken by all those nations.,
We build a building somewhere in some international city(maybe in NYC)
where the exchange of ideas can freely take place.
We give this body the means and the authority to demand action is taken to
make the world a better place.
What should we call it.
The international confederation of the nation of the world..
You know just like The United States of America was loosely unified under the articles of confederation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Articles_of_Confederation
Instead of states this organization will be made of individual independent nations.
How is this for a name
The United Nation of the World .
Who ever thinks this is a good idea do somethings to make this work.
We have to start acting like adults and that means we have to cooperate with each other to get things done because it will never get done if we try to do it separately.
The United Nations can work if we support it.
It's time we did.
You can't make it go away by the action any one country takes withing its own borders.
The terrorist in France for example did not get their training in France .
You need to have some kind international effort to stop what is a fast becoming the number one threat to peace in the world.
I have an idea,
We get all the nations in the world to form an international body that can coordinate the action taken by all those nations.,
We build a building somewhere in some international city(maybe in NYC)
where the exchange of ideas can freely take place.
We give this body the means and the authority to demand action is taken to
make the world a better place.
What should we call it.
The international confederation of the nation of the world..
You know just like The United States of America was loosely unified under the articles of confederation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Articles_of_Confederation
Instead of states this organization will be made of individual independent nations.
How is this for a name
The United Nation of the World .
Who ever thinks this is a good idea do somethings to make this work.
We have to start acting like adults and that means we have to cooperate with each other to get things done because it will never get done if we try to do it separately.
The United Nations can work if we support it.
It's time we did.
3
Thumbs up to the NYT for making the French version available as well! Please continue to allow readers to have access to the original-language sources.
13
Scary times indeed when the National Front in France makes morse sense than The U.S. President.
15
Although Ms. LePen is labeled as being far right, her comments make sense.
17
Well said Ms Le Pen. I fully support you. The situation is what is is and should be called by its name. People are dying and there is no time for political pandering. You have my absolute support.
14
It is unfortunate that so many are unable to read this article without overlaying it with their feelings about Marine Le Pen and her extreme right-wing Front National party. For example, many posts bring up the anti-semitism of the FN, despite the fact that Jews are never mentioned in this article. Within the confines of this specific article, I think that M. Le Pen makes a very valid point that political correctness, or the fear of alienating a particular voting bloc, prevents many from addressing "Islamic terrorists" or "Islamism" as the culprit. No less valid is her comment that unrestricted immigration across EU borders does make the movement of terrorists much easier than it would be if movement was subject to border controls. Dislike of the messenger doesn't invalidate the truth of the message.
27
10's of thousands protest in pakistan against France favoring the killers.
http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2015/01/19/pakistanis-protest-against...
happening worldwide as well:
http://www.france24.com/en/20150117-charlie-hebdo-protests-niger-pakista...
I shake my head at the most popular comment here. "At the root of home-grown radicalism, whether in France or any other country, are economic and social discrimination."
http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2015/01/19/pakistanis-protest-against...
happening worldwide as well:
http://www.france24.com/en/20150117-charlie-hebdo-protests-niger-pakista...
I shake my head at the most popular comment here. "At the root of home-grown radicalism, whether in France or any other country, are economic and social discrimination."
13
NYTimes what is up with you this week? Shying away from a cartoon because it's too dangerous? Printing a well know Fascist in the opinion column? Major fail!
19
The same people calling the author a fascist and Nazi are the same ones who openly and rather sanctimoniously express sympathy for the man who killed 4 people for being Jewish in Europe. Case in point is the fact that the most popular comment here, by a German man named Claus, expresses that point of view. Please don't tell me I am the only one who is aware of the irony and how sick it is.
17
Ms. Le Pen's column is 100% common sense. No wonder she's marginalized on a continent that seems bent on cultural suicide.
20
Did you like the part where she blamed Belgium for abetting terrorism?
It's always been my impression that citizenship is a duty, not a right. Those who fight for a foreign Islamist cause have forfeited their citizenship. Find out who they are and don't let them return.
20
We should have done the same with the Americans who volunteered to fight Spain's Franco-led fascists.
And right on about your take on citizenship, I'm sure our Captains of Industry could have used that idea many times in our troubled US past.
DUTY!
And right on about your take on citizenship, I'm sure our Captains of Industry could have used that idea many times in our troubled US past.
DUTY!
I've been told that Mme Le Pen is a fascist, a threat to French freedoms. Her column seems rather reasonable to me. I mean it's not euro-skeptics and open border skeptics that are killing people all over Europe.
16
One of the difficulties of modern Europe and France is that governance is often in the hands of an "elite" that endlessly meets and then adopts "solutions" that don't solve problems.
And much of the policy making elite is in Brussels and other European institutions beyond the reach of accountability by voters. In many countries, citizens have voted and voted for over a decade but nothing in their lives improves. Voting is supposed to change public behavior, create an impetus for new outcomes. But not in modern Europe.
So politicians like Marine Le Pen are able to respond to this frustration with clear and understandable calls to action. American readers might like to know that she gets substantial support from members of the Old Left in France in addition to the Right.
And much of the policy making elite is in Brussels and other European institutions beyond the reach of accountability by voters. In many countries, citizens have voted and voted for over a decade but nothing in their lives improves. Voting is supposed to change public behavior, create an impetus for new outcomes. But not in modern Europe.
So politicians like Marine Le Pen are able to respond to this frustration with clear and understandable calls to action. American readers might like to know that she gets substantial support from members of the Old Left in France in addition to the Right.
6
Perhaps supporting Israel, rather than Palestine would be a step in the right direction.
The truth is, the Jihadists are right to call themselves Muslims. They are the ones following in the Prophet's footsteps of spreading Islam through violence and bloodshed. The first step in winning a war is realizing that you are in one.
The truth is, the Jihadists are right to call themselves Muslims. They are the ones following in the Prophet's footsteps of spreading Islam through violence and bloodshed. The first step in winning a war is realizing that you are in one.
15
Totally in agreement with my copartidarian Le Pen. I think it´s the abuse of euphemisms and political correctness, overall in the mass media mostly owned by Liberal and Leftist plutocrats what has led the world to an unimaginable level of stupidity. Even POTUS cannot call these terrorists by their genuine name! Just look at American school textbooks and you find how they are so poor versus the French ones. Plus, in college and universities of America most professors are left leaning and clearly Liberal. I for one have been feeling like a "létranger" (A. Camus) in my country Colombia or in the USA when I visit it and always feel dumbed up and skeptical about what I read in the 7 national and intl. papers I normally read per diem.
8
POTUS referred to the 9/11 terrorists as "folks."
That was the POTUS you had in mind, yes?
That was the POTUS you had in mind, yes?
Quotes by Marine Le Pen:
For those who want to talk a lot about World War II, if it's about occupation, then we could also talk about it (Muslim prayers in the streets), because that is occupation of territory. It is an occupation of sections of the territory, of districts in which religious laws apply. It's an occupation. There are of course no tanks, there are no soldiers, but it is nevertheless an occupation and it weighs heavily on local residents
For those who want to talk a lot about World War II, if it's about occupation, then we could also talk about it (Muslim prayers in the streets), because that is occupation of territory. It is an occupation of sections of the territory, of districts in which religious laws apply. It's an occupation. There are of course no tanks, there are no soldiers, but it is nevertheless an occupation and it weighs heavily on local residents
9
Ms; Marine Le Pen ! The bigger threat to France is the bigotry expressed in this article.. The so called “ laïcité,’ is a joke and being used for discrimination. Every citizen of France, including Muslims, have equal rights. But Muslim population, especially Muslim youth, are openly discriminated at every level.. Many feel foreign in their own country. These conditions have turned Muslim communities into ghettos with many disillusioned, alienated and angry youths with no future. This is a fertile ground for any extreme ideology to take hold.
These angry youths have nothing going for them and on top their faith, the only fragile shred of dignity left for them, has been insulted by the likes of Charlie Hebod. This was the last straw that demanded revenge in their mind, and ended in tragedy that killed innocent civilians. This was more of a revenge of their own plight than the martyrdom in the name of religion. Denying this as part of the problem is the denial of reality.
These angry youths have nothing going for them and on top their faith, the only fragile shred of dignity left for them, has been insulted by the likes of Charlie Hebod. This was the last straw that demanded revenge in their mind, and ended in tragedy that killed innocent civilians. This was more of a revenge of their own plight than the martyrdom in the name of religion. Denying this as part of the problem is the denial of reality.
7
FS;
Excellent comment; truthful and spot on!!!
Excellent comment; truthful and spot on!!!
Where's the bigotry? Do you condemn the attacks on non-Muslims and poverty of Christians in Egypt or Pakistan?
Never mentions Jews or the kosher grocery store.
Must have been an oversight.
Must have been an oversight.
9
What is missing in Europe is a strong, strict and cohesive value system. That is our strength in the US melting pot. But equally important, our borders, with the exception of the one with Mexico, are much easier to protect. That said, I cannot help but wonder what the situation here in the US would be like if our "illegal" population were made up primarily of disaffected Muslims instead of hard-working Catholics.
10
Ms. Marine Le Pen is a clever politician. Having learned from the mistakes of her father Jean Marie Le Pen, whose racist views came to define the Front National, she carefully avoids making comments that are openly chauvinistic. This seemingly balanced column, in which she suddenly becomes a defender of France's secular values and quotes mainstream figures (Georges Clémenceau, Albert Camus), is a good example of her effort buttress the new-found respectability of her party. However, one thing that has not changed under her leadership is the fiercely anti-immigration platform of the Front National. And even in her attempt to appear objective and even-handed, it seems clear that her proposals would serve to further marginalize and victimize French Muslims. Really, how could "zero tolerance for any behavior that undermines laïcité" be enforced fairly? Ms. Le Pen knows an opportunity to promote the xenophobic agenda of the Front National when she sees one, and she now tries to make the most out the recent tragic events.
19
Dan, how are Muslims victimized in France? Do you live here? Is victimization expecting immigrants to learn the language, the history, adopt the traditions, norms and mores? If that is so, I am a huge victim. Other immigrants assimilate, we don't demand special treatment. As an immigrant I find all the comments by non-immigrants insulting and foolish. It is about as foolish to assume someone from Iowa doesn't possess a passport or even was able to read the piece in the original French. Once you all have lived side-by-side and experienced this situation, your cries of discrimination and victimization are all red-herrings.
France has bigger problems than stated by Ms. Le Penn. And it is a commentary on the state of the country, that its leaders apparently prefer to fight over semantics than address their real deep rooted problems.
Madame, your biggest problem is economic and social stagnation brought about by a failed economic model. The Islamists or Daeshists as any of you may prefer, and/or the problems of EU structure are distant also rans. But, it is often the case that societies that are failing in their primary tasks busy themselves with distractions.
Indeed a country that becomes sclerotic is incapable of assimilating anyone. It is economic vitality and forward progress that provides the motive force that blurs the differences of the new and the old, and creates a new people matched to the moment and superior for the future. Always has, always will be, ask the New Orleanians. It is not the backward looking fight over "what we are" that we will never change, blah, blah.
But Ms. Le Pen may well be right, given that France fails the economic case - its leaders by not recognizing their real problems have given up by default - allowing/bringing in immigrants just compounds the misery for all, and do not be surprised with a devolution into secular nationalism or "religious nationalism" (see Alkyol), whatever each holds as their dearest identity, without bread, or cake, people consume their identities.
Madame, your biggest problem is economic and social stagnation brought about by a failed economic model. The Islamists or Daeshists as any of you may prefer, and/or the problems of EU structure are distant also rans. But, it is often the case that societies that are failing in their primary tasks busy themselves with distractions.
Indeed a country that becomes sclerotic is incapable of assimilating anyone. It is economic vitality and forward progress that provides the motive force that blurs the differences of the new and the old, and creates a new people matched to the moment and superior for the future. Always has, always will be, ask the New Orleanians. It is not the backward looking fight over "what we are" that we will never change, blah, blah.
But Ms. Le Pen may well be right, given that France fails the economic case - its leaders by not recognizing their real problems have given up by default - allowing/bringing in immigrants just compounds the misery for all, and do not be surprised with a devolution into secular nationalism or "religious nationalism" (see Alkyol), whatever each holds as their dearest identity, without bread, or cake, people consume their identities.
2
Sadly, Marine Le Pen has delivered here a generous helping of crow for the French body politic to digest. She's scarcely what France needs, but there's nothing outrageous in what she's set forth here; in fact, it's mostly common sense. It would be wise of the incumbent French government to wake up and take measures to correct the mess created by years of neglect and denial in their public policies. Failing that, Mme Le Pen and her ilk are waiting in the wings, along with squads of menacing goons of all political persuasions.
4
Bravo, Ms Le Pen!
Be courageous and don't get bullied and silenced by leftists.
Be courageous and don't get bullied and silenced by leftists.
17
Well, if entire groups are going to be weighed down by a few within them, then Christians have a heavy cross to bare. Hitler was raised Catholic, Nathan Bedford Forest started KKK with burning crosses and all.
I would not want those creeps to be representative of my beliefs. And I do not want one in particular, that was involved killing more people in all of history than any faith.
I would not want those creeps to be representative of my beliefs. And I do not want one in particular, that was involved killing more people in all of history than any faith.
3
Others have said that Le Pen like her father is a racist and antidemocratic. I have not read her speeches or a professional account of her ideas and history, so I can not judge in this matter. However, her argument here seems practical and not demagoguery: muslims dissociate yourselves from the Islamic terrorists, france and EU do better at supervising people in transit to and from Europe who might be terrorists, and the French govt should make alliances with those opposed to terroism and condemn nations who support terrorists even when they are allies.
15
Assimilation is the process by which immigrants come to feel that the culture of their new home has become their own. It seems to me that studying why immigrant populations assimilate better in some countries than other is a more productive than demonizing them.
3
Who is demonizing them? Take off the rose-colored glasses. Yes, immigrants must assimilate as you state, but the effort and onus is on the immigrant, not the host.
Fantastic. All that's missing is a failed Austrian painter, and Le Pen would do Laval and Petain proud.
10
Secular slander of various religious figures and particularly of Prophet Mohammad ( peace be upon him ) in the ridiculous name of " Free Speech " is a cancer and Christians and Jews should fight it along with the muslim world. Only then will we have peace between the West and 1.7 Billion muslims.
2
Marine Le Pen is one of the most powerful far right leaders of Europe. Many of her proposals make sense but let's not be easily fooled by them. Beneath the illusory common sense lie the dark waters of a hidden agenda.
Le Pen encourages her "Muslim compatriots" to join in the noble defense of freedom and liberty. Left unstated is that, if she were President, all French Muslims will cease being "compatriots." History is replete with painful reminders of the plight of minorities governed by far right regimes. The very liberties and freedoms Le Pen extols will be crushed in an instant.
A preview of the hidden agenda is seen in her call to strip French jihadists of citizenship. But she refuses to specify who among France's Muslim community risk being classified as "jihadists." Certainly, a French national who joins ISIS in Syria deserves to have his citizenship revoked. But between him and a peaceful, hard-working French Muslim - who merely wishes to wear a piece of religious clothing to cover her hair - lies a vast Muslim community. Given the far right's record, it's safe to assume that all Muslims would be considered "jihadists."
No doubt, the onus is on French Muslims to accept French values. A brief moratorium on immigration may help. But if Le Pen wants all French Muslims to live under the threat of their citizenships being revoked, then it's only fair to extend that threat to present-day sympathizers of France's infamous Vichy government.
Le Pen encourages her "Muslim compatriots" to join in the noble defense of freedom and liberty. Left unstated is that, if she were President, all French Muslims will cease being "compatriots." History is replete with painful reminders of the plight of minorities governed by far right regimes. The very liberties and freedoms Le Pen extols will be crushed in an instant.
A preview of the hidden agenda is seen in her call to strip French jihadists of citizenship. But she refuses to specify who among France's Muslim community risk being classified as "jihadists." Certainly, a French national who joins ISIS in Syria deserves to have his citizenship revoked. But between him and a peaceful, hard-working French Muslim - who merely wishes to wear a piece of religious clothing to cover her hair - lies a vast Muslim community. Given the far right's record, it's safe to assume that all Muslims would be considered "jihadists."
No doubt, the onus is on French Muslims to accept French values. A brief moratorium on immigration may help. But if Le Pen wants all French Muslims to live under the threat of their citizenships being revoked, then it's only fair to extend that threat to present-day sympathizers of France's infamous Vichy government.
43
I agree that there is much hidden behind these nice words. And she has yet to prove she isn't an enemy of the Jewish community, either. But, French politicians as a rule won't acknowledge the beast of radical Islam. It takes a woman like Le Pen to prod them to do so.
As can be read in the commentaries and the US administration, we have the same problem and head in the sand or 3 monkey foreign policy .
13
In the days after the 9/11 attacks the headline in the French newspaper screamed "WE ARE ALL AMERICANS."
On September 17, 2001, President Bush said "Islam is peace."
Yet just a few short years later, upset by votes cast by France at the UN, Ms Le Pen's counterparts in this country decided that calling someone "French" would be the new epithet. They even refused to call the food in the Congressional commissary French fries, renaming them "Freedom fries" instead.
Today France stands with us in the war against ISIS and it seems Ms Le Pen, like our own Lindsay Graham and Jason Chaffetz, thinks the way to defeat an enemy is to call them names.
On September 17, 2001, President Bush said "Islam is peace."
Yet just a few short years later, upset by votes cast by France at the UN, Ms Le Pen's counterparts in this country decided that calling someone "French" would be the new epithet. They even refused to call the food in the Congressional commissary French fries, renaming them "Freedom fries" instead.
Today France stands with us in the war against ISIS and it seems Ms Le Pen, like our own Lindsay Graham and Jason Chaffetz, thinks the way to defeat an enemy is to call them names.
8
That isn't at all what she said.
Did she even admit that the thugs were born and educated in France and are as French as she is? Why does France cultivate violent brutes and call them islamists and not by their real name: French?
17
@Max duPont
You're right—the French should call them native-born Islamist terrorists.
You're right—the French should call them native-born Islamist terrorists.
When Le Pen talks of "laicité" she really means Catholic laicité with (perhaps) a dash of Huguenot.
Because Europe has cultures which are intimately interwoven with Christianity as well as various ethnicities, the arguments of a Jeorg Haider or Marine Le Pen concerning the threat of “Islamic immigration” to national identity are not as outrageous as they have been portrayed. It is difficult for many Americans to understand this because the United States, being a young and not-matured country, has no culture in the European sense.
Whether a national culture can be frozen in a certain state-in-time is another issue, the regret for "temps perdus" is understandable.
That said, Le Pen is barking up the wrong tree. “France” was not attacked; the magazine offices of Charlie Hebdo were. They were not attacked by “islamic fundamentalism.” They were attacked by two individual fanatics displacing subjective resentments and fantasies with bullets.
France has been here and survived before; or has Le Pen forgot David’s famous painting of Marat’s murder?
We ought not to be inventing Erlkonigs. Witches in the air always lead to witch-hunts on the ground.
The politicians (prime minister Vals et al.) call for measures against “domestic radicalization.” Can anyone tell me what that is exactly and who is or might not excluded?
Because Europe has cultures which are intimately interwoven with Christianity as well as various ethnicities, the arguments of a Jeorg Haider or Marine Le Pen concerning the threat of “Islamic immigration” to national identity are not as outrageous as they have been portrayed. It is difficult for many Americans to understand this because the United States, being a young and not-matured country, has no culture in the European sense.
Whether a national culture can be frozen in a certain state-in-time is another issue, the regret for "temps perdus" is understandable.
That said, Le Pen is barking up the wrong tree. “France” was not attacked; the magazine offices of Charlie Hebdo were. They were not attacked by “islamic fundamentalism.” They were attacked by two individual fanatics displacing subjective resentments and fantasies with bullets.
France has been here and survived before; or has Le Pen forgot David’s famous painting of Marat’s murder?
We ought not to be inventing Erlkonigs. Witches in the air always lead to witch-hunts on the ground.
The politicians (prime minister Vals et al.) call for measures against “domestic radicalization.” Can anyone tell me what that is exactly and who is or might not excluded?
4
Desperation and resentful immigrants are all byproducts of overpopulation.
Give women more power and breeding will no longer be used as a weapon.
Give women more power and breeding will no longer be used as a weapon.
8
Ms. Le Pen's article makes perfect sense. Her prescriptions seem indisputable not only for France, but also for us here at home. I say this as a liberal Democrat, former McGovern staffer, etc.
Elsewhere, Ms. Le Pen has taken positions that are batty enough to get her a membership in the Tea Party in the US. But this article, out of context and standing on its own, is good stuff. Well written, too.
Elsewhere, Ms. Le Pen has taken positions that are batty enough to get her a membership in the Tea Party in the US. But this article, out of context and standing on its own, is good stuff. Well written, too.
30
Careful what you wish for labeling groupes of people and religions... Though radical religionists have turned Islam on its head, though it is a violent intolerant religion, Le Pen gores down a slippery slope.. And when a country has power then you get the Nazis and Germany with a policy of Judenrein and a final solution cone again. I may totally agree with her sentiments, but there has to be a better way to cast the net without the obvious end result too common in Europe as evidence by 1000 years of christian chauvinism and intolerance.
The only "people" who profit from unlimited immigration are corporations that can use competition for jobs to drive down wages.
Eliminating border (or gun show) checks only makes things more convenient for arms dealers.
I agree: this is a sensible article. Would that the National Front's policies were limited to those expressed in it.
Eliminating border (or gun show) checks only makes things more convenient for arms dealers.
I agree: this is a sensible article. Would that the National Front's policies were limited to those expressed in it.
If this is written by a far right radical, it sure makes a lot of good sense. The open borders policy of the EU needs to be looked at. The concept that one could travel from one EU country to another much as Americans travel from one state to another is a wonderful idea, but not if it conveniences the movement of arms and terrorists.
22
Sign me up. I think Ms. Le Pen has been getting a very bad rap from critics of the "right wing" of France. She's making a lot more sense on this issue than just about anybody else I've read.
20
I am reluctant to admit it, but I watch Marine Le Pen regularly on French TV talk shows posted on You Tube.
Why? Because she enunciates clearly, and I have no trouble understanding her every word. Thus, she greatly helps me in keeping up my French language comprehension. She's often paired in debates with centrist and socialist politicians, so the debates can be very interesting.
Although I find some of her views reprehensible, I believe she speaks with passion and conviction. Whatever her views, unlike many politicians here in the U.S., in France, and elsewhere, she knows what she stands for and doesn't bend in the wind.
If only we Americans had politicians with good progressive politics who knew what they stood for. Oh, wait - - there's my own senator, Elizabeth Warren (smile). She's both progressive and principled. Elizabeth, please run for President of the United States.
P.S. - Interestingly, Elizabeth Warren was featured in a lecture broadcast by PBS in which she spoke with Thomas Piketty, the French author of the hot newish book "Capital in the Twenty-First Century." I would imagine that Piketty finds Marine Le Pen objectionable.
Why? Because she enunciates clearly, and I have no trouble understanding her every word. Thus, she greatly helps me in keeping up my French language comprehension. She's often paired in debates with centrist and socialist politicians, so the debates can be very interesting.
Although I find some of her views reprehensible, I believe she speaks with passion and conviction. Whatever her views, unlike many politicians here in the U.S., in France, and elsewhere, she knows what she stands for and doesn't bend in the wind.
If only we Americans had politicians with good progressive politics who knew what they stood for. Oh, wait - - there's my own senator, Elizabeth Warren (smile). She's both progressive and principled. Elizabeth, please run for President of the United States.
P.S. - Interestingly, Elizabeth Warren was featured in a lecture broadcast by PBS in which she spoke with Thomas Piketty, the French author of the hot newish book "Capital in the Twenty-First Century." I would imagine that Piketty finds Marine Le Pen objectionable.
5
Some NYT readers are voicing their dissatisfaction over Marine Le Pen's voicing her opinion on the current events leading to the tragic deaths of seventeen French people. They are upset that she is a conservative right-wing politician who is being given space in this paper. She has every right to speak and I am glad she is not being censored. I happen to agree with many of her viewpoints and she is quite popular in France. We still have freedom of speech in the US and France and no one should be silenced. You may not like the messenger because she is not left-leaning enough for you in her politics. I find her refreshing and hope she does not stop talking. I love her courage and tenacity.
30
You're confused about what "freedom of speech" and "censorship" mean. Not giving Marine Le Pen real estate in the most exclusive journalistic neighborhood on earth does not prevent her from speaking, just like removing an inappropriate submission from this (moderated) comments section is not a violation of some fundamental right. No one is denying Marine Le Pen her freedom of speech. When France arrests her for saying something (perhaps they can put her in the same jail as that terrible comedian who got arrested for making a vague Facebook comment that wasn't unequivocally supportive of Charlie Hebdo), then perhaps you'll have a point.
It's wonderful that you find her "refreshing." I assume, given your stated support in opening up the pages of the NYT to noxious figures (and in what I believe is an effort to soft-peddle and sanitize her own totalitarian ideology), that when the NYT airs an anti-Semitic column advocating for the immediate removal of Jews from some country or other due to their stubborn refusal to let go of their own historic cultures, or a column advocating that women must be denied what we understand as basic civil rights because it goes against hundreds of years of a nation's cultural values (and, no, I'm not just talking about the middle east), you'll be cheering just as loudly?
Terrorism is, by definition, terrifying. That's no excuse to pretend the bigots in our midst aren't bigots. Let's call them by their name.
It's wonderful that you find her "refreshing." I assume, given your stated support in opening up the pages of the NYT to noxious figures (and in what I believe is an effort to soft-peddle and sanitize her own totalitarian ideology), that when the NYT airs an anti-Semitic column advocating for the immediate removal of Jews from some country or other due to their stubborn refusal to let go of their own historic cultures, or a column advocating that women must be denied what we understand as basic civil rights because it goes against hundreds of years of a nation's cultural values (and, no, I'm not just talking about the middle east), you'll be cheering just as loudly?
Terrorism is, by definition, terrifying. That's no excuse to pretend the bigots in our midst aren't bigots. Let's call them by their name.
"The name of our country, France, still rings out like a call to freedom." In Algiers, Viet Nam, Haiti, not so much. France has its Ann Coulter.
11
Terrorism is a social and human problem. Every society and country does it's best, some more than others, to make sure that it's members and citizen have a good chance at succeeding in life and being a positive contributor to this social and human experience. But there are always people who fall through the cracks and hence almost every country has it's share of rapists, pedophiles, robbers, drug dealers and the like. Terrorists are not any different. And therefore solution to Terrorism should not be any different than solution to other type of crimes.
Here in USA there is history of declaring WARS on issues that were not even worthy of such names e.g. War on Drugs. So it is understandable that US finds itself in an unending "War" on Terrorism.
But I hope France's response to this tragedy is better because it is a social problem that can be solved by providing better education and equal access to being French for all it's citizen and members.
Here in USA there is history of declaring WARS on issues that were not even worthy of such names e.g. War on Drugs. So it is understandable that US finds itself in an unending "War" on Terrorism.
But I hope France's response to this tragedy is better because it is a social problem that can be solved by providing better education and equal access to being French for all it's citizen and members.
5
Terrorism is a crime. We have law enforcement to combat crime, including special task forces targeting organized crime. There is no need to assign any special status to terror and jihad. The best way to combat this organized crime is to stop giving them extra oxygen via the media and politicians playing the media.
9
Fortunately, politicians in France and Europe are probably paying absolutely no attention to the comments from this side of the Atlantic as they search for solutions to these problems. As I read American comments on these issues, from those of readers, published here, up to statements from respected journalists like David Brooks of NYT, I am absolutely flabbergasted by the lack of understanding of cultural and legal differences between our two countries.
If you have not lived in France, taught in the schools, you have no conception of the types of problems that she is addressing. Her primary accusation here is that the government has flopped around in some sort of multicultural fog, refusing to address real issues that have been simmering in France for a very long time. Are they paying for their colonial past? Probably, to some degree, but attacks of this type have also occurred in countries without such a past.
If you want to critique her piece, do it as a response to the problems she is raising and her proposed solutions, and not as some knee-jerk reaction that compares her to a despicable American figure. I am no fan of the FN, but Marine Le Pen is absolutely NOT the French equivalent of David Duke. Attacking the speaker rather than the speaker's ideas is not a tactic that is generally respected in philosophical discourse.
If you have not lived in France, taught in the schools, you have no conception of the types of problems that she is addressing. Her primary accusation here is that the government has flopped around in some sort of multicultural fog, refusing to address real issues that have been simmering in France for a very long time. Are they paying for their colonial past? Probably, to some degree, but attacks of this type have also occurred in countries without such a past.
If you want to critique her piece, do it as a response to the problems she is raising and her proposed solutions, and not as some knee-jerk reaction that compares her to a despicable American figure. I am no fan of the FN, but Marine Le Pen is absolutely NOT the French equivalent of David Duke. Attacking the speaker rather than the speaker's ideas is not a tactic that is generally respected in philosophical discourse.
106
She and her father are part and parcel of the problem, not the solution.
1
It should be clear enough by now that regardless of what they're called or call themselves, these are killers who want everybody, everywhere, to know what what happens when they don't play by their rules.
6
It pains me to see Mme. Le Pen and her Front National Party have the head start on finding solutions, however most of what she says is stained with the same fundamentalist ideals which she vows to fight. The perpetrators of the horrible incident in Paris were French, not immigrants, though the Front National cannot look beyond the color of peoples skins to determine nationality.
When Mme. Le Pen says that Muslims need to stand up and fight on the same side against radical islam it is a joke. What the French, and citizens of all countries, need to do is stand up to fundamentalism on all sides, this includes ISIS and the FN, who in my opinion have a lot in common.
When Mme. Le Pen says that Muslims need to stand up and fight on the same side against radical islam it is a joke. What the French, and citizens of all countries, need to do is stand up to fundamentalism on all sides, this includes ISIS and the FN, who in my opinion have a lot in common.
11
Charlie, you are right. You know why the FN supports Palestinian independence (which I am in favor of, but for different reasons that the FN)?
1
Adding to what Vivian suggests below. It is also incorrect to refer to these groups as "fundamentalists." Liberal groups do not see themselves as diverging from the letter of the Koran -- they consider themselves orthodox as much as the IS (though they have different and in my opinion, more correct readings of the Koran than the IS). Radical islamist would be a better term for these hateful groups that are using their religion as an alibi for their aspiration to power.
Mr. Gehner who has posted below is absolutely correct. What happened in France (I do not speak of other countries) is directly linked to colonialism, racist attitudes of which Maghrebi immigrants have been the prime victims, and situation in France where immigrants are wrongly made the scapegoats of economic decline.
As a tangential note to this, it may be worth remembering that Jean-Marie Le Pen, founder of the Front National, was a soldier directly linked to the torture of Algerian prisoners in the Algerian revolution. His daughter Marine Le Pen, face of the new Front National-light, has pursued a more moderate political agenda, ostensibly to draw the votes. The party still maintains links however, to radical right-wing factions. At the basis of the party's platform is the idea that France should actively stem immigration. Forgotten is the fact that France's population is in decline firstly, and second, that immigrants -- both documented and undocumented -- are an important part of the labor force for the country. It is a common misperception -- one that the FN is capitalizing on -- that the immigrants sponge off social services when in fact, the capacity to access France's generous social schemes is predicated on residency in the country for a set amount of time. My point here being that this editorial should be read for what it is -- a thin appeal to reason that is based on facts that are dead wrong, and that barely hides a virulent xenophobia
As a tangential note to this, it may be worth remembering that Jean-Marie Le Pen, founder of the Front National, was a soldier directly linked to the torture of Algerian prisoners in the Algerian revolution. His daughter Marine Le Pen, face of the new Front National-light, has pursued a more moderate political agenda, ostensibly to draw the votes. The party still maintains links however, to radical right-wing factions. At the basis of the party's platform is the idea that France should actively stem immigration. Forgotten is the fact that France's population is in decline firstly, and second, that immigrants -- both documented and undocumented -- are an important part of the labor force for the country. It is a common misperception -- one that the FN is capitalizing on -- that the immigrants sponge off social services when in fact, the capacity to access France's generous social schemes is predicated on residency in the country for a set amount of time. My point here being that this editorial should be read for what it is -- a thin appeal to reason that is based on facts that are dead wrong, and that barely hides a virulent xenophobia
9
France's population is not in decline.
Ms. Marine Le Pen, I applaud your candor. Islamic extremism is a serious problem. May I humbly suggest that your views are echoed by a Muslim woman - Ms. Asra Q. Nomani in the Washington Post.
In USA political correctness - as espoused by President Barack Hussein Obama - is an obstacle to calling radical Islamic ideologies by the same name. Instead it is very disturbing to see that the term 'workplace violence' has come to substitute what we would call Islamic terrorism. This is a sorry state of affairs and I wish we had someone like you here in the USA.
In USA political correctness - as espoused by President Barack Hussein Obama - is an obstacle to calling radical Islamic ideologies by the same name. Instead it is very disturbing to see that the term 'workplace violence' has come to substitute what we would call Islamic terrorism. This is a sorry state of affairs and I wish we had someone like you here in the USA.
15
Marine Le Pen is more interested in pinning this incident on outside forces than on looking within French society as a contributing factor. In her world, everything French is pure; everything foreign is suspect. On top of it, she is trying to claim that she herself is Charlie Hebdo, yet they could not be further appart. Charlie Hebdo is Left Leaning, uses humour to diffuse social tension whereas she promotes it with hate. Extremists hate Charlie Hebdo more than Marine Le Pen and the Front National because the latter resemble extremism too much. No Marine, the killing of Charlie Hebdo staff is not about you and your values - it has nothing to do with you.
6
The NYT is publishing editorials from the National Front? What's next, op-eds from the KKK? Ms. Le Pen is using the bloodshed to paint her anti-immigrant, anti-Muslim rhetoric as legitimate political discourse: which it is not.
14
The French Comments on this news article in Le Monde say it all "
" Plus personne ne l'écoute en France en ce moment, donc elle va parler dans un journal américain..logique" (no one in France listens to her anymore so now she is speaking in an American newspaper...logical?) rand another: (rough translation) "They (the New York Times) won't publish the cover of Charlue Hebdo, but they publish her take on things?"
I agree with the comment above, what's next, the KKK commenting on the race situation in The USA? The NY Times should privide some context for it's readers on whose "opinion" they are reading.
" Plus personne ne l'écoute en France en ce moment, donc elle va parler dans un journal américain..logique" (no one in France listens to her anymore so now she is speaking in an American newspaper...logical?) rand another: (rough translation) "They (the New York Times) won't publish the cover of Charlue Hebdo, but they publish her take on things?"
I agree with the comment above, what's next, the KKK commenting on the race situation in The USA? The NY Times should privide some context for it's readers on whose "opinion" they are reading.
It was reasoned and sensible and articulate. Censorship is never the answer, even if it upsets the politically correct among us.
Regardless in which country terrorists (whatever their label) show up France, Belgium, Canada, or the United States we must join forces and declare war on the underlying causes of this ominous wave of death and destruction overwhelming us. In other words, while protecting ourselves and taking appropriate precautions, we must also unite in doing everything humanly possible to somehow someway better understand and fix the toxic societal/familial/cultural/economic and other poisonous conditions involved in creating droves of at risk youth driving them into the arms of these dangerous well-organized well-funded gangs believing they will finally get their needs met. I fear until we deal with the core issues which have over time congealed into a formidable force (The Ultimate Revenge of Society's Outcasts), it will continue to grow and we will continue to be at its mercy.
26
It is puzzling that the Obama administration fails to recognize that refusing to call it "what it is" makes it infinitely clear to the American public that that is precisely what "it" is, and we wonder why it is so imperative that we be misled.
11
An astute analysis that i agree with. Leaves me wondering why Marine Le Pen is described as far right, as I view myself as left leaning politically. I appreciate the opportunity to read this . Thank you NYT.
20
She's described as far right by people who want to call things by their true names.
All this sounds so reasonable, and that's what is frightening me.
At some point i believe i should get accompanied the violent and visual terror of a very few than the gradual and covert decline of my civil freedom. The temptation of another "patriot act" is great after such a painful sting, but we all know by reminding our history, where this will lead to.
Rather i do praise the politicians, who will look like cowards now, who try to mend the fractions in the society in the first place. France, like any other free nation, will endure. The daesh will perish. The only real threat for france comes from within. We should look into our history and call the threat by its name.
At some point i believe i should get accompanied the violent and visual terror of a very few than the gradual and covert decline of my civil freedom. The temptation of another "patriot act" is great after such a painful sting, but we all know by reminding our history, where this will lead to.
Rather i do praise the politicians, who will look like cowards now, who try to mend the fractions in the society in the first place. France, like any other free nation, will endure. The daesh will perish. The only real threat for france comes from within. We should look into our history and call the threat by its name.
Mathias, I doubt Europe will see a Patriot Act, unless one of its countries sees an outrage of the magnitude of 9/11. It took that for us to enact it. And it wouldn't help unless it were enacted by Europe, not merely by one nation. But just imagine that happening -- a European police such as a re-chartered, vastly more empowered and far better financed Interpol. This is a vision that SHOULD frighten a German.
I think what frightens a lot of Europeans is the thought that Marine Le Pen and her National Front might have some influence over such power.
I think what frightens a lot of Europeans is the thought that Marine Le Pen and her National Front might have some influence over such power.
Marine Le Pen's interpretation of France's "laïcité" is basically "secular fundamentalism". When she became president of Front National, she wanted to show the French that she was the protector of the values of the Republic, which are meant to be about tolerance, liberty, fraternity and equality.
She called for a ban on headscarves, Jewish kippas, and even the djellaba - a traditional long, loose-fitting unisex outer robe with full sleeves - in public.
Later she courted Jewish groups in the runup to the 2012 presidential elections, in which she took one in five of the votes.
Are well dealing with a "Marianne" or an opportunist?
She called for a ban on headscarves, Jewish kippas, and even the djellaba - a traditional long, loose-fitting unisex outer robe with full sleeves - in public.
Later she courted Jewish groups in the runup to the 2012 presidential elections, in which she took one in five of the votes.
Are well dealing with a "Marianne" or an opportunist?
4
If we must call threats by their proper names, let's begin with Ms. Le Pen. She is a xenophobe, an Islamaphobe, and a racist.
8
No, let's call her PATRIOT.
Shortly before WW2, the American allies of the Germans published a heavily edited version of Hitler's speeches in a book titled My New Order.
I found a copy at a used book sale, bought it, and read it. It sounds remarkably reasonable. The Americans who edited it knew what to leave out. Many of the Americans who read it did not know what was left out from the rest of those speeches. The harmless half with its simplistic "truths" could sound reasonable standing alone, even if a bit simplistic.
That is what Le Pen is doing here. Many Americans don't really know in any detail what she has been saying and doing for the last 30 years.
The NYT ought to have been more aware of that.
I found a copy at a used book sale, bought it, and read it. It sounds remarkably reasonable. The Americans who edited it knew what to leave out. Many of the Americans who read it did not know what was left out from the rest of those speeches. The harmless half with its simplistic "truths" could sound reasonable standing alone, even if a bit simplistic.
That is what Le Pen is doing here. Many Americans don't really know in any detail what she has been saying and doing for the last 30 years.
The NYT ought to have been more aware of that.
237
Mark-
I don't think the issue here is whether the author is Marine Le Pen or Marie Antoinette. Whoever the messenger, there is a lot of truth in what she's saying about our being truthful about Islam.
I don't think the issue here is whether the author is Marine Le Pen or Marie Antoinette. Whoever the messenger, there is a lot of truth in what she's saying about our being truthful about Islam.
6
Namely?
Are you suggesting that we not hear her point of view? Please allow me to make up my own mind what is reasonable and prudent. I just love it when the progressives/liberals want to curtail our right to obtain other views on subjects.
Do not fear the truth. The Tea Party is a school kid compared to her.
Do not fear the truth. The Tea Party is a school kid compared to her.
When liberals dilly-dally in stating truths, they open space for the extremists. This is tragically demonstrated in the Islamic world, now in France, and even on the pages of the New York Times.
Liberals are probably scared that the truth will unleash lynch mobs on the Muslims, but isn't that exceedingly disrespectful of the civility of the rest of us?
Liberals are probably scared that the truth will unleash lynch mobs on the Muslims, but isn't that exceedingly disrespectful of the civility of the rest of us?
64
You mean you lynch mobs are civil? ["Please sir, may I disturb you to place this noose around your neck? Thank you."]
Not after some redneck fool, a few miles north of Houston, responded to 9/11 by murdering a Sikh store clerk.
1
Au Contraire, Marine -
France was not attacked by "Islamic Fundamentalism".
Two sites in Paris were attacked by some very unhappy human beings.
These young people were orphaned, fostered, motherless, fatherless & jobless.
This is a recipe for the kind of behavior all France has witnessed.
You talk about French culture & assimilation.
What are France's political parties (both left & right) doing to offer classes in language & culture ? What is France doing to say, "Bienvenue" ?
We in the U.S. (indeed all of us), can improve our own ability to welcome.
France was not attacked by "Islamic Fundamentalism".
Two sites in Paris were attacked by some very unhappy human beings.
These young people were orphaned, fostered, motherless, fatherless & jobless.
This is a recipe for the kind of behavior all France has witnessed.
You talk about French culture & assimilation.
What are France's political parties (both left & right) doing to offer classes in language & culture ? What is France doing to say, "Bienvenue" ?
We in the U.S. (indeed all of us), can improve our own ability to welcome.
30
World is not fair, that doesn't give you the right to kill other people.
Where should it end ? everyone, who is unhappy, is justified to wreak havoc ?
Where should it end ? everyone, who is unhappy, is justified to wreak havoc ?
1
Really? Is that why the people who run these Islamist terror groups are mostly from upper middle to wealthy classes, with the rank and file terrorists seduced and recruited by imams from comfortable backgrounds, and these groups get large amounts of money from wealthy donors in Saudi Arabia and the like? Is that why the exhaustive NYPD study of Islamist terror recruits shows in the US show that most come from middle class backgrounds?
6
They murdered people over cartoons and you think they needed some classes?
5
The people who need to call things by their right names are the many Muslims of good will. They should come forward with one voice to make clear that nothing in Islam supports the murder of non-Muslims, regardless of what they say about the Muslim faith or the Prophet Muhammad. In fact, Islam, like all religious, teaches the sanctity of life.
Islamic leaders should have made such statements long ago, especially since they are almost certainly what most Muslims think. If the concept of jihad has any legitimate meaning, it is the notion that one should struggle against the cowardice that have led these people to be silent up until now.
Islamic leaders should have made such statements long ago, especially since they are almost certainly what most Muslims think. If the concept of jihad has any legitimate meaning, it is the notion that one should struggle against the cowardice that have led these people to be silent up until now.
41
"nothing in Islam supports the murder of non-Muslims, regardless of what they say about the Muslim faith or the Prophet Muhammad. In fact, Islam, like all religious, teaches the sanctity of life."
That would be nice if it were true. It's not.
That would be nice if it were true. It's not.
8
Possibly past Muslim culture was inclusive, but the current one (since the 13th-14 century) is not. There is no support for rational thought or humanism in Islam today. Do not confuse the past with the present or the cultural clash between Iran and Saudi Arabia that has festered for thousands of years with any hope for inclusion. I rarely side with the ultra-right, but it takes fire to fight fire in this case. We are naive to think this can be handled in a 21st century manner. Sadly, the ancient punishment of banishment is well deserved here.
5
By now it should be understood that there is no absolute defense of free society against terrorist acts. Politicians who try to get support for themselves or their parties by blaming political competitors for security failures are merely raising false hopes to gain political advantage. Any fanatics or mental cases willing to die can take some of us with them just about any time they want. They have always been able and always will be able to do so.
For our part we resort to "Monday morning quarterbacking," blaming, scapegoating (Saddam Hussein?), restricting the freedoms of the entire populace (Patriot Act), all-out wars. increasing the budgets and powers of enforcement and intelligence agencies, nation-building, ally-buying (Egypt, Pakistan, et.al.), relief and aid projects, etc..; none of which has ever or will ever eliminate the powerful ability of terrorists to strike anywhere they want sooner or later.
We can either learn to take it in stride as we do with tornadoes and hurricanes or enjoy the spectacle a la George Carlin.
For our part we resort to "Monday morning quarterbacking," blaming, scapegoating (Saddam Hussein?), restricting the freedoms of the entire populace (Patriot Act), all-out wars. increasing the budgets and powers of enforcement and intelligence agencies, nation-building, ally-buying (Egypt, Pakistan, et.al.), relief and aid projects, etc..; none of which has ever or will ever eliminate the powerful ability of terrorists to strike anywhere they want sooner or later.
We can either learn to take it in stride as we do with tornadoes and hurricanes or enjoy the spectacle a la George Carlin.
14
Sounds like the "America Firsters" from the 1930's
Sounds good. So what do you propose specifically?
This op-ed makes way too much sense.
Kudos, Ms. Le Pen.
Kudos, Ms. Le Pen.
108
France will either defend itself, or not. Islamist fundamentalists will be brought under control or not. France survived many previous problems; the Roman Empire did not. Today's children will live to see the outcome of massive immigration and multiculturalism. Perhaps it will all work out well; but if these policies do not work out, if France becomes a European Lebanon or Yugoslavia, who will unscramble this broken egg?
31
The opposite of multiculturalism killed more than 20 million europeans seventy years ago.
1
perhaps it's not broken...just evolving ?
Just to correct your history: the Roman Empire survived from Augustus to the fall of Constantinople for about 1500 years. Not a bad wicket really, especially considering that for 700 years they were the bulwark that stopped Islam overrunning europe. They would have understood Frances better than anyone and tell you of the true nature of Islam.
2
A comparison of Muslim immigrants from Pakistan vs. Hindu immigrants from India, in Britain, tells the story that religious influences are at the heart of alienation and socioeconomic stagnation of Muslims.
About fifty years ago, most of these people started from the same socioeconomic status -- as blue color laborers. And yet their communities have evolved just like Pakistan and India. Other than religion, they shared language, history, culture, ethnicity, food habits and geography.
The conclusions are inevitable: regressive religious influences discouraged Muslim communities from embracing modernity and retarded socioeconomic development. This frustration, in part, set the stage for violent radicalization.
About fifty years ago, most of these people started from the same socioeconomic status -- as blue color laborers. And yet their communities have evolved just like Pakistan and India. Other than religion, they shared language, history, culture, ethnicity, food habits and geography.
The conclusions are inevitable: regressive religious influences discouraged Muslim communities from embracing modernity and retarded socioeconomic development. This frustration, in part, set the stage for violent radicalization.
145
Yes I hope that some sociologists spend some time over the different result when India and Paquistan were studied. The degree of development was the same 50 years ago.The hard socio conditions were the same as the people are the same.But and this but is important India has 1.5 billion people while Paquistan 200 million.And the difference in progress is staggering.Having the courage to name the things by the right name is fundamental.
1
A better example would have been comparing Muslim immigrants from India vs Muslim immigrants from Pakistan in Britain. The former is the most highly successful of all the immigrant groups in the UK. The latter is below the national average. Hindu Britons are closer to British Indian Muslims than British Pakistanis.
The reasons are quite simple. British Indian Muslims, and British Indian Sikhs, were minorities who had to make their way in the context of a dominant society that was unlike them in many ways, be it India or Britain. In the UK, they begin fresh and with a different type of baggage (colonial) than in the old country (communal).
For its faults, Britain has a better mechanism for integrating ethnic minorities (if they want it) than France, which expects conformation without any acceptance of the qualities that could bring benefits to the overall society. Religion is a substrate that can be positive, negative or, usually, irrelevant in the success of an ethnic group. Islam offers all of the above. In a more welcoming society (Britain vs. France), religion need not be a very large security blanket. When the society treats its ethnic groups as France does, expect religion to be writ large. This is not to say that bad apples won't come out of Britain. It is just to say that the fault is much more in the individual in Britain whereas in France, the fault is at least as much in the society, the vaunted lacite that Madame Le Pen speaks of. Don't drink her Kool-Aid.
The reasons are quite simple. British Indian Muslims, and British Indian Sikhs, were minorities who had to make their way in the context of a dominant society that was unlike them in many ways, be it India or Britain. In the UK, they begin fresh and with a different type of baggage (colonial) than in the old country (communal).
For its faults, Britain has a better mechanism for integrating ethnic minorities (if they want it) than France, which expects conformation without any acceptance of the qualities that could bring benefits to the overall society. Religion is a substrate that can be positive, negative or, usually, irrelevant in the success of an ethnic group. Islam offers all of the above. In a more welcoming society (Britain vs. France), religion need not be a very large security blanket. When the society treats its ethnic groups as France does, expect religion to be writ large. This is not to say that bad apples won't come out of Britain. It is just to say that the fault is much more in the individual in Britain whereas in France, the fault is at least as much in the society, the vaunted lacite that Madame Le Pen speaks of. Don't drink her Kool-Aid.
3
My wife and I have English Indian friends who live near Birmingham. We visit them fairly often. I have been stunned by the contrast of the Indian and Pakistani communities in England. You will find no rough or gang-ridden Indian neighborhoods. On the contrary: the many Indians we have met in England are prosperous and civically responsible, and often live in ordinary neighborhoods side-by-side with their English neighbors. Our Birmingham friends run a medical practice in a poor neighborhood, run-down and depressing—and their patients overwhelmingly are Pakistanis. Or consider East London, which heavily is Pakistani. Visit it, and you may feel as though you were in Lahore. All the signs are in Urdu. Also, there is disorder. Once, stopped at a traffic light in East London, we beheld a group of young Pakistani males as they crossed the street, not by going on the pedestrial crosswalk, but by climbing on the hoods or people’s cars and jumping from vehicle to vehicle.
That kind of thing will make an impression on you. Differences in behavior leap to the eye, and—I am sorry—they are not brought on by racism. Racially you cannot tell Indians and Pakistanis apart. However, the Indians accept British culture, and do very well indeed. The Pakistanis, or many of them, reject it for religious reasons, and too frequently are neither entrepreneurial nor respectful of education as the Indians are. There is a social problem, all right; but racism is not the cause of it.
That kind of thing will make an impression on you. Differences in behavior leap to the eye, and—I am sorry—they are not brought on by racism. Racially you cannot tell Indians and Pakistanis apart. However, the Indians accept British culture, and do very well indeed. The Pakistanis, or many of them, reject it for religious reasons, and too frequently are neither entrepreneurial nor respectful of education as the Indians are. There is a social problem, all right; but racism is not the cause of it.
3
Madame Le Pen accuses French President, Francois Hollande, of making mistakes but offers no mention of the war fought against Islamic militants in Northern Mali by a French led coalition.
Briefly, Operation Serval lasted 18 months and between 600 and 1,000 militants were killed including three of their five leaders. Nine French military personnel lost their lives as did many more from Mali and Chad.
Let's put aside Madame Le Pen's mean spiritedness for a moment and thank the soldiers from France, Mali, Chad and other countries for their service in taking the fight to the Islamic militants.
The name of our country is the United States and this is just the American way of doing things.
Briefly, Operation Serval lasted 18 months and between 600 and 1,000 militants were killed including three of their five leaders. Nine French military personnel lost their lives as did many more from Mali and Chad.
Let's put aside Madame Le Pen's mean spiritedness for a moment and thank the soldiers from France, Mali, Chad and other countries for their service in taking the fight to the Islamic militants.
The name of our country is the United States and this is just the American way of doing things.
17
Wrong diagnostic. Their parents who moved to France never wanted their children born in France to be French by giving them first name from their country of origin and forcing upon them and the French their culture. The first name is a much stronger identity markers than the family name which shows where you came from, and the first name where you are and where you are going. I was born in France from Yougoslave parents who named me Nicolas and not Nikola. Never had a problem in France. I live now in the United states . It never crossed my mind to impose on my fellow American that my first name Nicolas be pronounced the French way.
50
Marie Le Pen's party is the continuation of a right wing exclusionary party that was started by her father. In the current environment her three points all sound rationale and compelling. But there will be a day after and the sun will rise and life will return to the pre attack days. France is merely experiencing the closing chapter of a colonial legacy which right wing French supported. Now that it has come home to roost with Muslim citizens who came with French passports as colonial subjects legally they want to change the narrative. I have never understood why the French don't sit down with the Turks--their fellow NATO ally--and ask them to tell them which French citizens have left to Syria so they can pull their passports or revoke their citizenships assuming the French parliament changes the law. Turkey is the problem and until the Turks can be sat down and made to understood that as a fellow NATO member we are all in this together, Marie Le Pen's points seem rationale.
22
Since Turkey will never believe that "we are all in this together", Marine Le Pen's points ARE rational.
8
Oh, it's only a closing chapter... I thought there might be more to it. Thanks for explaining that so simply. Yes, the cooperative Turks. Our NATO allies. What a liberal leader they have. LOL.
1
Ms. Pen, I do not know enough about your politics but people have painted you as a right-wing reactionary (akin to being a Republican here) and perhaps you are. In this essay you seem very reasonable to me. I grew up as a military dependent in Germany in the 70s and was accustomed to extra security and pat downs at the airport when they were concerned about terrorism then.
The U.S. enjoys a certain amount of safety due to its geographic isolation, the events of 9/11 notwithstanding. The countries in Europe are very close together, the populations diverse and swelling, the borders porous. You are obviously closer to the Middle East than we are. Some things just make plain common sense to do.
I agree that you needn't be paralyzed by your colonial past, politically correct to the point of absurdity and unable to act, but the risk is tremendous on the other side - you must realize - that your treasured liberties will indeed be reigned in (certainly monitored) if you overreach.
The U.S. enjoys a certain amount of safety due to its geographic isolation, the events of 9/11 notwithstanding. The countries in Europe are very close together, the populations diverse and swelling, the borders porous. You are obviously closer to the Middle East than we are. Some things just make plain common sense to do.
I agree that you needn't be paralyzed by your colonial past, politically correct to the point of absurdity and unable to act, but the risk is tremendous on the other side - you must realize - that your treasured liberties will indeed be reigned in (certainly monitored) if you overreach.
46
First, a thumbs up to the NYT for translating these remarks for a mostly Anglophone readership. Second, as an American who is supposed to believe this party leader is some far-right radical (if I solely depended upon the NYT and/or the Guardian and various journals of the chattering class) I was pleasantly surprised. Compared to our Tea Party nativists, fundamentalists, and all around nutters, Madame Le Pen is rational, well-spoken and pragmatic if not necessarily right on all points. I certainly wouldn't drive her or her party into the outer darkness of unacceptability in France's electoral system. Most surprisingly to one accustomed to our right wing wrapping themselves in a literalistic reading of Holy Writ, Madame Le Pen is a firm supporter it seems of secularism (laicite'). Who knew?
147
I thought the same. What exactly do people not like about her platform. Having lived in France and Switzerland, I know how people use her father, and now her, as shorthand for lunatic racist right-winger, yet this speech gives no clue of that.
40
Your understanding of the French political Right, obtained from this single op-ed, far exceeds your understanding of your own country's political Right. Not surprising for a NYT reader.
1
She's not Churchill. Surprise ?
" ,....... and there should be zero tolerance for any behavior that undermines laïcité and French law."
Why are countries so adverse to enforcing their own laws .....be they secular laws in France or immigration laws in the USA? Why is sharia law tolerated when it is in direct conflict with democratic and/or secular law?
It seems to me that there will never begin to be a solution to extremism and/or immigration problems until countries decide to uphold the laws that they have enacted.
Why are countries so adverse to enforcing their own laws .....be they secular laws in France or immigration laws in the USA? Why is sharia law tolerated when it is in direct conflict with democratic and/or secular law?
It seems to me that there will never begin to be a solution to extremism and/or immigration problems until countries decide to uphold the laws that they have enacted.
72
Sounds like someone with a clear view of the problem. Unlike ourselves.
97
Never let a good crisis go to waste, eh Ms. Le Pen?
43
ad hominem
4
Could I really be agreeing with the head of the Front National Party? I know there will be comments about France's past mistakes of occupying countries and their inadequate attempts to assimilate immigrants. But I respect that France has it's specific cultural beliefs and anyone who wants to make France their home must respect and abide by those beliefs.
France, like every country, is not perfect in their treatment of "the other" and that should continuously be improved. But there can be no tolerance for radical, fundamentalist extremists. France has fought hard for their view of openness and freedom and has served as a model to others including the US. There is no place there for those who cannot accept this freedom and feel justified to commit mass murder because of a cartoon they don't like.
France, like every country, is not perfect in their treatment of "the other" and that should continuously be improved. But there can be no tolerance for radical, fundamentalist extremists. France has fought hard for their view of openness and freedom and has served as a model to others including the US. There is no place there for those who cannot accept this freedom and feel justified to commit mass murder because of a cartoon they don't like.
166
I don't think that would be a good idea (agreeing with the head of the Front National party). This is just one carefully written article, written to look reasonable in a mainstream paper in another country, where her party and history is not known.
Since we are going to call things 'by their names', let's begin by calling Mme. Le Pen's National Front by what it is: a xenophobic, anti-immigrant, extreme right wing party whose founder, Jean-Marie Le Pen, is well known as a hate monger and Holocaust denier. Marine Le Pen does not represent the mainstream of French thought, thankfully. It is typical of her party to attempt to capitalize on a national tragedy by calling for extreme security measures, which may sound comforting to some, but can lead all too easily down a slippery slope towards a police state. The idea of a French “Patriot Act” has thus far been rejected in France, as recently described in these pages. Mme. Le Pen states that “from France’s tragedy must arise hope for real change”; perhaps, but those who remember the history of the FN (and are willing to call it by its true name, which is Xenophobia) would certainly not entrust the National Front with any important decisions concerning national security.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/17/world/europe/patriot-act-idea-rises-in...
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/17/world/europe/patriot-act-idea-rises-in...
235
Au contraire. A phobia is an irrational fear.
5
It's hard for Marine le Pen to capitalize on such a national tragedy when it has been she who has been predicting such a tragedy for years. As for the National Front simply being a fringe movement in France, the next elections will indicate if this is true or not. As far as turning France into a police state, Muslim jihadis murdering scores of civilians to the point where the army has to guard houses of worship and schools, while imams make little effort to cleanse Islam of this hate, will do far more to turn France into a police state than anything Marine le Pen would do.
10
Well, we Democrats are the party of Jim Crow, slavery, eugenics, etc. Should we condemn ourselves because our fathers were idiots?
5
It is jarring at first to read the prose of Marine Le Pen in the New York Times. On second thought, the Times is right to allow the voice of the Front National to be heard directly by Americans. To the extent that “France is the land of human rights and freedoms,” the xenophobic Front, who politics and policy consist in scapegoating rants against what Ms. Le Pen calls “massive waves of immigration,” is entirely alien to this ideal, and reminiscent instead of uglier (though no less French) strains of our national tradition. Immigration, for the Frontistes, is the root of all problems and evils, and thwarting it by all means necessary (starting with destroying free circulation within the European Union, another target of choice) the only way to restore what they think is the country's national identity – an identity steeped in fear and hatred. Muslim-bashing, in particular, and the premise that “Muslims” (in the old days, it was “Arabs,” whether Muslim or not) cannot be assimilated, have been the Front's stock and trade for decades, which makes Ms. Le Pen and her ilk unqualified to maintain crucial distinctions between Islam and Islamism. To claim that immigration as such is a cause of Islamist terrorism is to encourage guilt by association and the stigmatization, in the minds of the French, of millions of their compatriots; for Ms. Le Pen's real goal is not to fight terrorism: it is to ride the reflexive fear of Islam and distrust of all foreigners to an electoral victory.
150
You are spouting at the mouth. You may write an articulate response but lets be real the European Union is a failed policy, it should never have had happen. Take a look at the condition of Europe, financial failure, high unemployment, and on the brink of deflation. How is all that immigration working for Europe? You tell me?
4
Unqualified and unchecked immigration, especially when it heavily favors a certain culture can undo any existing society. We have immigration laws for a reason. Squeals of racism, bigotry, and hate against those campaigning for reasonable measures to ensure the survival of borders, language and culture of a country are ignorant pandering at best.
4
Have you ever been to any Islamic country? Do you know Arabic? Do you watch Arab TV? I think you would change your mind the same way I might change If I lived in France and knew French and watched French TV.
If you watch Arab TV, in Iraq or Egypt for instance, and then go to watch CNN and read the New York Times, you will certainly feel that there are two worlds that have little in common.
Immigrants belong to that world. Do not defend someone unless you know what you are talking about.
It is about how the immigrants think and not about the way you think.
If you watch Arab TV, in Iraq or Egypt for instance, and then go to watch CNN and read the New York Times, you will certainly feel that there are two worlds that have little in common.
Immigrants belong to that world. Do not defend someone unless you know what you are talking about.
It is about how the immigrants think and not about the way you think.
1
The French have a right to expect immigrants to assimilate, speak French and adapt to the ideals of French society. If they or their children don't like it, they should leave. The French have a right to their culture. Ms. laPen isn't suggesting using violence to answer violence. She is suggesting rational controls on the actions of humans who decide that Islamic fundamentalism and violence in support of that ideology or religion is appropriate. I agree that any human that travels to a foreign country to fight with a group of terrorists should be denied re-entry to France, the UK or the US.
People who believe that violence is an acceptable response to "offense" are wrong and that includes the Pope.
Free speech must be protected. To quote Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes’s observation in U.S. v. Schwimmer (1929): “If there is any principle of the Constitution that more imperatively calls for attachment than any other it is the principle of free thought—not free thought for those who agree with us but freedom for the thought that we hate.” Simple, straight forward and true. If we only protect the speech we agree with, it's not free speech!
People who believe that violence is an acceptable response to "offense" are wrong and that includes the Pope.
Free speech must be protected. To quote Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes’s observation in U.S. v. Schwimmer (1929): “If there is any principle of the Constitution that more imperatively calls for attachment than any other it is the principle of free thought—not free thought for those who agree with us but freedom for the thought that we hate.” Simple, straight forward and true. If we only protect the speech we agree with, it's not free speech!
84
In principle you are right. But in practice, assimilation is something of a myth.There is a reason that many third-generation French -- whose families immigrated to France from the Maghreb -- change their names to ones that are more French-sounding. No matter how assimilated one might be, there are deep pockets of racism in France, colonial residue that taints the assimilationist ideal.
To say that foreigners change their name is a lie. Do you know at least France? Many foreigners have more advantages than the french because we practice positive discrimination.
Albert Camus announced also in one of his novels that an Islamic veil would one day cover up Europe with its radicalism. Unlikely to what many believe, this has nothing to see with the former colonies of France or some other European countries as this phenomenon is under way in all Europe and even country like Sweden which didn't have colony are undergoing this.
It's a process that is brought by the European Union's institutions as more and more immigrants approving ISIS like a recent poll suggested (around 15%) are accepted thanks to their lax controls and as they only take care to spread them in all the European countries in order to scramble to do something for the refugees. They don't reflect, they just betray like Merkel that has spoken in nasty terms about her own population demonstrating against the islamization of Germany, as normally any Constitutional country allow to demonstrate. But no more it seems, as we must shut up and wait that the ideas of Islamists rattle even moderate Muslims like they scared some newspapers after the CH's attacks.
Current European politicians are downplaying troubles expressed by some customs settling in France as those who impose those ones are not impressed by the legitimate violence of the French state and as our politicians don't want to rock the boat and make heard about their management in their city at a national level... Sadly,it speaks volume about how democracy is perverted and drop its legacy of European civilizations...
It's a process that is brought by the European Union's institutions as more and more immigrants approving ISIS like a recent poll suggested (around 15%) are accepted thanks to their lax controls and as they only take care to spread them in all the European countries in order to scramble to do something for the refugees. They don't reflect, they just betray like Merkel that has spoken in nasty terms about her own population demonstrating against the islamization of Germany, as normally any Constitutional country allow to demonstrate. But no more it seems, as we must shut up and wait that the ideas of Islamists rattle even moderate Muslims like they scared some newspapers after the CH's attacks.
Current European politicians are downplaying troubles expressed by some customs settling in France as those who impose those ones are not impressed by the legitimate violence of the French state and as our politicians don't want to rock the boat and make heard about their management in their city at a national level... Sadly,it speaks volume about how democracy is perverted and drop its legacy of European civilizations...
25
Why would the New York Times offer its editorial page to be used as a platform by the detestable leader of the fascist Front National? This is very disappointing. One who peddles hate and exclusion as a national agenda does not deserve the cover of respectability this publication provides. She has been exploiting the recent tragedy to forward the pernicious racist and anti-immigrant agenda of the FN. President Hollande excluded her and her party members from solidarity march of last week. Yet here she is disgracing the pages of the Times. I understand wanting to provide a forum for diverse voices but there are limits to that.
55
What limits? If Charlie Hebdo is welcome in the discussion, as it should be, so is she. Nothing of what she says here sounds so unreasonable or extreme.
2
Why should Ms Le pen not have a voice in the NYT. Im sure people like you jenise would say the same about Black Americans fighting for equality here in the good old USA. Blacks were called names, trouble makers and beaten and killed fighting for their identity and the right to be acknowlege to be Americans. Its seems as though you dont like her politics and she should be silenced. Every point of view must be heard. Mr. Hollande will be voted out.
4
You should probably make that call about limits on behalf of us all. Would you do it for free?
1
Excellent Op-Ed - clear, incisive, eloquent and courageous. Le Pen is right on target. At this point, she represents the majority of the French people. Let's see if Hollande has the guts to do what it takes to defend the country.
115
Thank God, she DOES NOT represent the majority of the people. Where did you get that from?
5
She represents the majority of the French people? Really? What's your basis for saying that?
2
Sorry. Non, she does not represent the majority of French people. And most of the mainstream French political parties are trying to determine a more rational and humaine reponse to these acts than the Americans did in 2001. "Patriot Act" is a dirty word in France.
Compare this with conservative spokesman in this country - nitpicking, small-mindedness, personal attacks, incoherence, pandering to financial interests. Pretty impressive, I'd say, whether one likes her or not.
62
It is another "postcard" sent by the former colonies. The sins of the fathers are visited on the children and justice looks on amazed.
14
No. Immigrant communities exist in countries around the world, coming to the host countries for a variety of reasons, usually for economic improvement. No matter the difficulties to be surmounted, recourse to extreme criminal behaviour is not typical and where it occurs, it speaks to the individual circumstances which motivated it rather than supposed historical forces at work here. The original sin idea of colonialism is wrong on many counts but just one index is the close relations which France maintains with many of its former colonies, i.e., at their behest, and the help it gives some of them to fight terrorism on their own turf (e.g. in Mali, also Libya despite that the latter had been under Italian tutelage).
Justice doesn't look an "amazed", it just does its job as it must for any egregious behaviour which upsets social order.
There are no simple answers to these questions but the postcard theory is a non-starter, not to mention offensive, in my opinion, to all those trying to find a way out for disadvantaged communities.
Justice doesn't look an "amazed", it just does its job as it must for any egregious behaviour which upsets social order.
There are no simple answers to these questions but the postcard theory is a non-starter, not to mention offensive, in my opinion, to all those trying to find a way out for disadvantaged communities.
Yes, this is the usual excuse of "progressives" in denial over the real cause of Islamic fanaticism -- that Islam has a problem. But "progressives" can't do that because it would call into question the foundation of their entire cultural relativist multi-cultural ideology.
So please answer this. If Islamic fanaticism is simply the sins of Western colonialism come back to roost, and so I assume Westerners are only allowed to self-flagellate and suck it in or risk being called intolerant, well... Britain ruled India with a colonial fist for centuries. Where are the Hindu fundamentalists blowing up restaurants, machine-gunning journalists and cartoonists who drew a piece using the image of Shiva? The US and Spain ruled the Philippines with degrees of brutality. Where are the Philippine Roman Catholic suicide bombers murdering innocents? The French ruled Indochina with an iron fist. Where are the Buddhist jihadis blowing up university cafeterias or blowing up Christian shrines?
So please answer this. If Islamic fanaticism is simply the sins of Western colonialism come back to roost, and so I assume Westerners are only allowed to self-flagellate and suck it in or risk being called intolerant, well... Britain ruled India with a colonial fist for centuries. Where are the Hindu fundamentalists blowing up restaurants, machine-gunning journalists and cartoonists who drew a piece using the image of Shiva? The US and Spain ruled the Philippines with degrees of brutality. Where are the Philippine Roman Catholic suicide bombers murdering innocents? The French ruled Indochina with an iron fist. Where are the Buddhist jihadis blowing up university cafeterias or blowing up Christian shrines?
We have come far down the path toward extremism and totalitarian rule if Marine Le Pen now has enough legitimacy to be published in the New York Times. How many of your readers will know that Ms. Le Pen is, in fact, driven by the same impulses as the Jihadists: tribalism, hatred for "the other", divisiveness, and the unwavering belief that she is never wrong, that they are two sides of the same coin?
How many will know that her family has labored for decades so that neither Jews nor Muslims were made to feel that they could ever become part of French society (unless by renouncing their identity, their religion, their language, their dress, their food, and their non-French history)?
It also defies logic that Ms. Le Pen quotes Albert Camus as if they were cut from the same cloth. In the same work she cites (La Peste), Camus also warns us never to side with the plagues of the world: both the Jihadists and Le Front National are plagues, and we would all do well to take sides against them both.
How many will know that her family has labored for decades so that neither Jews nor Muslims were made to feel that they could ever become part of French society (unless by renouncing their identity, their religion, their language, their dress, their food, and their non-French history)?
It also defies logic that Ms. Le Pen quotes Albert Camus as if they were cut from the same cloth. In the same work she cites (La Peste), Camus also warns us never to side with the plagues of the world: both the Jihadists and Le Front National are plagues, and we would all do well to take sides against them both.
247
Marine Le Pen is racist and xenophobic, but testifying as a foreigner living in France for more than 25 years, she does express a reality that left-wing frenchmen do not recognise. France is an old country and to blend into its society a stranger has to learn and adhere to its many unspoken cultural codes: the importance of the "terroir", the hypocritical view of money ("dirty" yet pursued), the distinction between personal and public probity (it's OK for a politicien to cheat on his wife but on on his electorate), the selective nature of schooling (no second chance for those that have not make it into a "Grande Ecole" after the "Bac"), etc. All these subtleties make it much easier for an immigrant to become a full flegded american citizen than a french one.
4
Yes, Le Pen now sounds more like a liberal than many of those in the West for which no Islamist attack is not the fault of the West. It is shocking I agree.
Now, is this the fault of reactionary Le Pen or the NYT? or is it the fault of us liberals who have been cowardly about applying out values universally?
Now, is this the fault of reactionary Le Pen or the NYT? or is it the fault of us liberals who have been cowardly about applying out values universally?
7
[[anon
North Carolina
We have come far down the path toward extremism and totalitarian rule if Marine Le Pen now has enough legitimacy to be published in the New York Times.]]
Yes. By all means, let's censor speech with which we disagree. That should solve the problem.
North Carolina
We have come far down the path toward extremism and totalitarian rule if Marine Le Pen now has enough legitimacy to be published in the New York Times.]]
Yes. By all means, let's censor speech with which we disagree. That should solve the problem.
7
Liberal secular democracy is the engine that has driven worldwide progress for the last 2 centuries. In that time 3 counter-narratives have arisen. The firstwas Fascism, which was defeated through a bloody war. The second was Communism, which economically defeated. Both of these were fundamentally Western movements, and we had more of an immune system for them. The third is Islamic Fundamentalism, which in its less violent form seeks to transform the secular liberal democracies into Islamic theocracies, and its violent form seeks to create chaos as a condition for violent change. Both of these are threats to the liberal democracies of Europe and the world.
There is no an easy fix. We need to be prepared for the long haul, and the first step is to know who the adversary and his game plan.
There is no an easy fix. We need to be prepared for the long haul, and the first step is to know who the adversary and his game plan.
126
Merci pour votre courage!
54
Western civilization cannot tolerate suppression of freedom of speech and religion.
Individuals, off any religion or political belief, who oppose these freedoms should be denied access.
Individuals, off any religion or political belief, who oppose these freedoms should be denied access.
29
This column is a total fabrication, trying to exploit how ignorance of the Front National outside of France. Marine Le Pen inherited the anti-immigrant, racist party from her father, Jean Marie Le Pen, whose political goal was to make a successor to the Vichy (Nazi) regime of Pétain after Nazism was outlawed in France in 1945. They are Nazis in everything but name trying to purify France by removing all non-Whites. They receive funding from Petain to undermine the French state.
Le Pen is right that Islam is a difficult subject in France but not because politicians are afraid to speak openly. During the Second World War, they Vichy regime spoke very openly about how they felt about Jews, Muslims, and people of non-European origin. The Front National has spent the last 40 years pretending that it is not racist and Islamophobic.
Fortunately, not very many people believe them because of the long trail of racist comments and court cases. In one recent case, Marine Le Pen was fined for creating fake pamphlets for her political opponent, Jean-Luc Mélenchon. So much for speaking plainly!
Le Pen is right that Islam is a difficult subject in France but not because politicians are afraid to speak openly. During the Second World War, they Vichy regime spoke very openly about how they felt about Jews, Muslims, and people of non-European origin. The Front National has spent the last 40 years pretending that it is not racist and Islamophobic.
Fortunately, not very many people believe them because of the long trail of racist comments and court cases. In one recent case, Marine Le Pen was fined for creating fake pamphlets for her political opponent, Jean-Luc Mélenchon. So much for speaking plainly!
52
100% d'accord avec vous, but I think you meant to say "they received funding from Petain" ;-). Putain, alors !
1
You are absolutely right and American readers of this piece must understand that this is media manipulation. In France, le "Marinisme" or "la politique bleu marine" means exactly what she's doing here: pretend that her party has become reasonable and acceptable -- a clean-up job for media consumption and vote-getting from gullible people, when in reality the FN remains xenophobic, racist, hateful, and most of all incompetent in the exercise of power. If Le Pen became president, they wouldn't be able to find 10 people to fill her administration. Several of their prominent representatives who were locally elected in 2014 have already run in all kinds of trouble.
Understanding words is crucial. Laicite -- seems to mean separation of church and state.
Choosing between Scylla and Charybdys is choosing between two evils.
Absolute accuracy is essential. And the Saudis and Qataris must be taken to task for their role or lack there of in promoting or controlling the Islamic State. ENOUGH of all of it already.
Choosing between Scylla and Charybdys is choosing between two evils.
Absolute accuracy is essential. And the Saudis and Qataris must be taken to task for their role or lack there of in promoting or controlling the Islamic State. ENOUGH of all of it already.
16
Laicité means more than just "separation of church and state." It means a secular civil society in which religion is confined to the strictly private sphere. A couple of years ago, a Belgian senator, explaining the concept, stated that no one had a right to wear a crucifix visibly in public. In pursuit of laicité the French have banned burqas, turbans, yarmulkes and other "ostentatious" religous symbols from schools or public places.
As Pascal might say, Laicité ends up being a geometrie requiring a lot of finesse.
As Pascal might say, Laicité ends up being a geometrie requiring a lot of finesse.
34
But crosses can still be worn at school, as long as they are small. Each day of the French calendar is marked by saints' days, and the school vacations coincide with some major Catholic holidays, like Toussaint in the fall. Laicite
I have to say that credit should be given where it is due, and although I may be the sole surviving American socialist, this is an impressively well thought out essay by someone I would not have imagined I would ever praise.
53
It's not really well thought out, though. There's no connection between the rousing call to "call a thing by its name" (yeah, we get that the terrorists were Islamic fundamentalists) and the calls to do things like seal the borders. It's rhetoric; she doesn't address any of the pro's or con's.
In our country, even a Republican occasionally makes sense.
Catholics do not try to force non-Catholics to acknowledge the infallibility of the Pope. Observant Jews do not try to force non-Jews to eat kosher food. Buddhists do not try to force non-Buddhists to follow the four noble truths. Why do Muslims try to force non-Muslims to never show an image representing Muhammad?
The prohibition against representing Muhammad is for Muslims. Wise Muslim religious leaders from the entire world would do Islam a great favor if they preached and reiterated this view.
The prohibition against representing Muhammad is for Muslims. Wise Muslim religious leaders from the entire world would do Islam a great favor if they preached and reiterated this view.
181
And wise Catholics also do not try to force their views on abortion, gay marriage and birth control on others? Please.
7
You ever hear of the inquisition
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inquisition
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inquisition
2
I was raised Catholic, and I don't need EDF to tell me about Catholics. It is true that Catholics do not try to force non-Catholics to acknowledge the infallibility of the Pope. EDF has threaded the needle there. But Catholics do attempt to force people to follow Catholic practices regarding abortion, birth control and sexual orientation, by dint of an unstinting campaign to enlist the power of the state. Why is everyone running around with their skirts raised, squealing about Sharia Law, when Church law is a hair's breadth away from being on the books in dozens of states? I don't know EDF, but I do know a lot of people who have absolutely no problem with the encroachment of religious doctrine on US law - as long as it's their religion.
9
Ah, right wing nationalists with their 'easy' answers to all kind of problems: Close the borders! Throw out the foreigners! Kill the EU and run home to mama (i.e. fall back to exclusionary nationalism, it worked so well in the past)! Suspend the rule of law, in order to install a police/surveillance state to preserve our freedoms (hah)! Pursue a coherent foreign policy... Wait a minute; reasonable idea, actually, just really, really hard to do without sufficient cooperation between nations, something notoriously absent from hard right nationalist agendas.
Never mind, that all european nations lost their ability to enforce their interests unilaterally on a global scale over 70 years ago. Not to speak of today's pressing problems; None of them solvable on a narrow nationalist framework, even for superpowers, unlike France.
Perhaps, should Mme. Le Pen ever find herself at the helm of her nation, even she would find her actual options severely limited. And it's safe to predict, that by way of circular argumentation, the onus of her failure would fall on... foreigners, open borders and the EU. Ah, well...
Never mind, that all european nations lost their ability to enforce their interests unilaterally on a global scale over 70 years ago. Not to speak of today's pressing problems; None of them solvable on a narrow nationalist framework, even for superpowers, unlike France.
Perhaps, should Mme. Le Pen ever find herself at the helm of her nation, even she would find her actual options severely limited. And it's safe to predict, that by way of circular argumentation, the onus of her failure would fall on... foreigners, open borders and the EU. Ah, well...
26
Remember how Breivik slaughtered nearly 70 children in Sweden, in the name of anti-Islamism?
Remember how Jean-Marie Le Pen (her father, and founder of her party) blamed called this slaughter an 'accident' caused by multiculturalism? And how Marine Le Pen refused to repudiate her father's justification of Breivik?
And remember how there were voices in her own FN party supporting Breivik's actions?
Yes, call this threat by name.
Remember how Jean-Marie Le Pen (her father, and founder of her party) blamed called this slaughter an 'accident' caused by multiculturalism? And how Marine Le Pen refused to repudiate her father's justification of Breivik?
And remember how there were voices in her own FN party supporting Breivik's actions?
Yes, call this threat by name.
99
I checked on J-M Le Pen and Breivik, and you're right. He dismissed it as an oddity, the work of a madman in a naive country. The question now is whose party is the NF, his or hers. I see it as in transition, but her claims that it is not far right wing do not convince me. SHE may not be, but longtime party faithful certainly are.
5
When it's Muslims that are not speaking against Islamism, we don't hear people like you naming that as a threat, and I don' believe Marine Le Pen herself asked them to do so.
You're lumping Marine Le Pen and Breivik, it seems that you have the right, yet it's a double standard based opinion as like everyone else you acknowledge implicitly the right to many to not be amalgamated by others believers that are responsible of wrongdoings in the name of what they claim is their religion too.
You're lumping Marine Le Pen and Breivik, it seems that you have the right, yet it's a double standard based opinion as like everyone else you acknowledge implicitly the right to many to not be amalgamated by others believers that are responsible of wrongdoings in the name of what they claim is their religion too.
What will she say when right-wing, young Christian Frenchmen don pseudo-Nazi ideologies and start committing violent atrocities?
20
Probably "good". It is amazing how gullible people are, all you have to do is say a few words that cover up your real agenda and people don't even do any research and fall for it. It's how the right wins.
2
We should say the same thing, that they are trying to destroy liberal secular democracies.
1
"To Call This Threat by Its Name"
Gladly: the threat represented by the National Front is a return to the fascism of Vichy, with this time Muslims rather than Jews as the ostensible target. The founder of the National Front, Le Pen pere, referred to the gas chambers as a "detail" of WW 2. The NY Times must be hard up to find Op-Ed writers that they give space to such a Party. What an affront to non-racist French people.
Gladly: the threat represented by the National Front is a return to the fascism of Vichy, with this time Muslims rather than Jews as the ostensible target. The founder of the National Front, Le Pen pere, referred to the gas chambers as a "detail" of WW 2. The NY Times must be hard up to find Op-Ed writers that they give space to such a Party. What an affront to non-racist French people.
194
Eventually it would be the Jews too.
4
"The NY Times must be hard up to find Op-Ed writers that they give space to such a Party."
This is a common tactic of these editorial pages to give voice to the "alternative" i.e. none liberal viewpoint, by means of either extreme right wing spokespersons or unqualified writers. This way they can make a show of presenting a balanced argument but at the same time insidiously frame the argument as the voice of reason vs the voice of right wing extremism.
This is a common tactic of these editorial pages to give voice to the "alternative" i.e. none liberal viewpoint, by means of either extreme right wing spokespersons or unqualified writers. This way they can make a show of presenting a balanced argument but at the same time insidiously frame the argument as the voice of reason vs the voice of right wing extremism.
1
We have 34 000 people that tweeted #JeSuisKouachi or #JeSuisCoulibaly after the last attack that killed 17 persons, so please educate yourself on the risks of many Muslims in France becoming radicals and having a hatred of our country that yet brings them help for get a job, free education, social benefits if they're sick or get no wage. The problem is real and even we should avoid any scapegoating, we must decide to freely speak about too and stop having politicians that are shrugging off.
And as the famous Jewish author Simon Epstein has showed in his book called "A French paradox", Vichy was made possible due to people that were philosemitic and belonging to the both major parties like today, whereas the National Front wasn't existing at this time as Le Pen father was minor.
Le Pen father himself nowadays is seen as a traitor by his own supporters as he set several controversies that were just moot points that medias were having pleasure to flood in the news whereas this had no importance at all for the prospects of our country and for his constituents. The problem is rather that we're living in the same reality that Georges Orwell has written about in "Animal Farm" and people don't seem to understand how it's going on and how subversive our policies have become...
And as the famous Jewish author Simon Epstein has showed in his book called "A French paradox", Vichy was made possible due to people that were philosemitic and belonging to the both major parties like today, whereas the National Front wasn't existing at this time as Le Pen father was minor.
Le Pen father himself nowadays is seen as a traitor by his own supporters as he set several controversies that were just moot points that medias were having pleasure to flood in the news whereas this had no importance at all for the prospects of our country and for his constituents. The problem is rather that we're living in the same reality that Georges Orwell has written about in "Animal Farm" and people don't seem to understand how it's going on and how subversive our policies have become...
Very well written. Quite persuasive in passion and reason. What was it that I sensed was subtly troubling? So I researched Ms. Le Pen and gave myself a little education on her life's story. Wow.
This philosophical approach of anti-multiculturalism, is not the wave of the future. It can not be. This sense of pride and protection in and of individuality must evoke its own cautionary tale of separation, of us vs. them, of factions. Of war.
Like yourself. Love yourself. You and your kind. Be competitive. Enjoy your talents and skills. Enjoy winning. Protect your borders from those with evil intentions. Nurture your culture. Yes. But watch yourself. Understand that while you are totally amazing and unique; so is everybody else. The moment an individual or group thinks they are special, or for that matter, unworthy, they are travelling one of the two roads to hell. Of separation, not unity. And taking others with them.
Apart from the battles that must be fought, exclusion of others is not the way of the truly noble, but for the less evolved. Only on the day that we see all men as our brothers and all women as our sisters, that we recognize that the essence of every human being is identical, and deserving and demanding of respect and equal rights, unless they destroy their rights, will the day have begun for us.
This philosophical approach of anti-multiculturalism, is not the wave of the future. It can not be. This sense of pride and protection in and of individuality must evoke its own cautionary tale of separation, of us vs. them, of factions. Of war.
Like yourself. Love yourself. You and your kind. Be competitive. Enjoy your talents and skills. Enjoy winning. Protect your borders from those with evil intentions. Nurture your culture. Yes. But watch yourself. Understand that while you are totally amazing and unique; so is everybody else. The moment an individual or group thinks they are special, or for that matter, unworthy, they are travelling one of the two roads to hell. Of separation, not unity. And taking others with them.
Apart from the battles that must be fought, exclusion of others is not the way of the truly noble, but for the less evolved. Only on the day that we see all men as our brothers and all women as our sisters, that we recognize that the essence of every human being is identical, and deserving and demanding of respect and equal rights, unless they destroy their rights, will the day have begun for us.
14
Sounds good. Meanwhile, how would you deal with a reasonable percentage of people who wish to kill you if you don't follow their twisted interpretation of their religion and consider any of your values to be worthless?
5
Brilliant comment. Not sure I know enough about Ms. Le Pen to agree with all her thinking. But one thing is for sure, in countries around the world we seem unable to speak clearly and directly. Euphemisms are destroying all intelligent discourse, political and social. Bravo Ms. Le Pen.
59
It sounds like France has been pursuing the same kind of "geopolitical incoherence" that has driven US involvement in the Middle East.
10
Woody Allen once wrote, "The lion will lie down with the lamb, but the lamb won't get much sleep." French Jews need to be wary of' their new champion Ms. LePen, whose anti-Semitic father founded the ultra-nationalist party she now heads.
They have a new minority to scapegoat now, but hatred of Jews is never far from the hearts of a certain kind of Frenchmen. When they are done stereotyping the Muslims they will come for you.
They have a new minority to scapegoat now, but hatred of Jews is never far from the hearts of a certain kind of Frenchmen. When they are done stereotyping the Muslims they will come for you.
107
That is certainly true. But at the moment, unfortunately, Jews are being murdered by Muslim extremists, and so-called liberals like you don't seem to care -- except insofar it has a negative effect on the lives of Muslims.
4
It is hardly 'scapegoating' to decry murder and a belief system that encourages violence against anyone who does not share it. If someone hates everything you stand for and is ready to kill you to make their point, do you invite them as permanent guests in your home? Europe has made an immense mistake by welcoming millions bent on the destruction of European liberal democracy. The millions are not yet attacking Europe, but they harbor and encourage the thousands who are. If the Muslim populations of Europe will not discourage their disaffected members from slaughtering their fellow citizens, who will?
5
There are 6 million Muslims in France.
Only 500,000 Jews left.
So that will take a long time.
Only 500,000 Jews left.
So that will take a long time.
I must say I was expecting something much stronger and far more offensive from France's far-right. Most of what she says is reasonable although debatable and it is hard to judge the sincerity of a woman who in other contexts had used her anti immigrant policy as a provocation for naked racism. But she admits no country can admit so many immigrants and yet lack a powerful and profound assimilation (that need not mean loss of culture. What it should mean is education and jobs) policy. She admits unemployment is key. She admits it is only Muslim fundamentalists, not Muslims in general, who are a problem.
And yet, with her history, i still have problems thinking this is all she'd do if her party won.
And yet, with her history, i still have problems thinking this is all she'd do if her party won.
71
Culture is too vast a phrase and therefore it's meaningless to state "... need not mean loss of culture." As commented by "Chip" above, an ostentatious symbol in public cannot be permitted in French values regardless one considers it part of one's culture or not. There are, similarly, many more elements of practices that may not align with the host country's laws and that's where assimilation through education/critical thinking needs to be encouraged. This "assimilation" is crucial as it forms the basis of examining different values on merits and principles that may be too alien to the newcomers.
1
And you are right to have your doubts. In the (rare) cites where the National Front has gained control of the municipalities, they have applied a policy of censorship of cultural activities, in libraries, etc. Oh, and in most cases their financial management was disastrous, too...they soon got voted out...
If a new label or name is to be used for Muslim extremist ideology, then it is a label or name that should be provided by and supported by Muslims. If Muslims want to distinguish themselves from extremist ideology, then a label/name for Muslim extremist ideology will develop on its own in the proper way by Muslims. If instead there is no widespread denunciation by Muslims of the extremist ideology, then there should be no label/name distinction.
8
Ms. Le Pen has bad reputation, but this is a good article. Muslims must speak out against Islamists (jihadists are simply people who follow the path), or we must conclude that Muslims support this terrorism. They must join us in fighting "the cancer on Islam."
37
A "bad reputation?" She is a fascist and her father who founded her party is an anti-Semite and Holocaust denier!
Amen.
17
Gee. La Pen doesn't sound as crazy as the media in this country make her out to be. She's certainly no Fox News analyst. To her comments, I say amen.
82
… and Hitler had some good ideas, right? This woman is a fascist and she merely cloaks her nihilistic ideology in some feel-good liberal ideas, and you buy it?
4
Al is not the only one who is buying this fascist junk. It's terrifying how many people on this thread seem to do so.
Someone should call the National Front by its name as well.
23
All right: an idea whose time has come.
I don't know enough of her entire philosophy to say whether Marine Le Pen is dangerous or not to France's political fabric. And quoting "good ideas" from bad people can have a negative effect (i.e., legitimizing part of their manifesto so the rest might seem sensible).
But I have to agree that stripping citizens of their passports when they fight in a foreign army alien to our interests makes a lot of sense. Why would we readmit anyone to US shores who had heeded the siren song of ISIS? Why spend tax money are trying to convince young Muslims in the US that going to fight with ISIS is a bad idea? If it's not self-evident to these ignorant mercenaries, let's just seize their passports and say, Good luck in your new home!
(To be consistent, I think this rule should apply to all US citizens and all foreign armies, from the French Foreign Legion to ISIS to Israel's IDF as well. Lord knows we have enough military options here in the US to satisfy the desires of any would-be soldier.)
But I have to agree that stripping citizens of their passports when they fight in a foreign army alien to our interests makes a lot of sense. Why would we readmit anyone to US shores who had heeded the siren song of ISIS? Why spend tax money are trying to convince young Muslims in the US that going to fight with ISIS is a bad idea? If it's not self-evident to these ignorant mercenaries, let's just seize their passports and say, Good luck in your new home!
(To be consistent, I think this rule should apply to all US citizens and all foreign armies, from the French Foreign Legion to ISIS to Israel's IDF as well. Lord knows we have enough military options here in the US to satisfy the desires of any would-be soldier.)
24
Uh huh. So you would have stripped citizenship from any American who joined the RAF during the early years of war against Hitler when the US insisted on remaining neutral? Or the Lafayette Escadrille in WWI against the Kaiser when America also insisted on remaining neutral? Or any American who had joined Claire Chennault's Fighting Tigers defending China against Japanese aggression while the US remained neutral? Or any Jewish American who had joined the IDF to fight for Israel in 1948 or 1967 when five Arab armies sworn to the annihilation of a nation of another six million Jews attacked her?
2
I am pleased to see that the Times has printed this editorial. Ms. Le Pen is constantly branded as an "extremist" or a "racist". By printing editorials such as this, readers have a chance to judge her policies themselves, rather than reacting to smear labels.
99
That's assuming Ms. Le Pen is telling everything about her views, not just those things that seem reasonable in isolation. For myself, I have lots of doubts about that.
Compounding the problems Marine Le Pen reports are policies of Western governments vis-a-vis the states that both fund and encourage Islamism. US/EU support of reactionary, repressive, theocratic and non-representative Middle Eastern regimes is a big and largely unstated element of the problem.
A major offender is Saudi Arabia. This "family with a flag" exports its favored form of Islamist fundamentalism, Wahhabism. Selling this revanchist, intolerant and absolutist ideology dogma is nearly as important to the regime as are oil exports. The Saudi government also channels weapons and personnel to Islamists internationally.
Of course other Gulf Arab nations succor Islamist movements. This expedient is simpler than integrating malcontents and reforming entrenched cultural and social constructs. Fortunately for them, the perennial Arab-Israeli conflict serves as a nice foil.
For pragmatic reasons of state, the US and EU ignore the roots of the problem and whack futilely at the branches. Yes, efforts to facilitate integration of Muslims in the EU are needed, So are border controls and immigration reform. However, use of euphemisms, multi-cultural platitudes and rhetorical hand-wringing are not only futile; they are counter-productive.
Solving this nasty mess will require skilled, pragmatic and insightful policy making, but, as Le Pen notes, that's the crucial, missing element of the solution.
A major offender is Saudi Arabia. This "family with a flag" exports its favored form of Islamist fundamentalism, Wahhabism. Selling this revanchist, intolerant and absolutist ideology dogma is nearly as important to the regime as are oil exports. The Saudi government also channels weapons and personnel to Islamists internationally.
Of course other Gulf Arab nations succor Islamist movements. This expedient is simpler than integrating malcontents and reforming entrenched cultural and social constructs. Fortunately for them, the perennial Arab-Israeli conflict serves as a nice foil.
For pragmatic reasons of state, the US and EU ignore the roots of the problem and whack futilely at the branches. Yes, efforts to facilitate integration of Muslims in the EU are needed, So are border controls and immigration reform. However, use of euphemisms, multi-cultural platitudes and rhetorical hand-wringing are not only futile; they are counter-productive.
Solving this nasty mess will require skilled, pragmatic and insightful policy making, but, as Le Pen notes, that's the crucial, missing element of the solution.
43
Oui! This makes perfect sense to me.
Would that the President of the United States is nudged out of his state of denial and makes clear to the American people who our adversaries are.
Would that the President of the United States is nudged out of his state of denial and makes clear to the American people who our adversaries are.
32
Excellent piece.
48
First, the correct word is Islamist. Islamic is an adjective referring to Islam as a whole. In contrast, Islamist connotes a political movement to establish theocratic government. Second, there is no such thing as fundamentalist Islam or Islamism because "fundamentalist" is a way of reading sacred texts (in a literal manner) that is not practiced among Muslims in relation to the Qur'an. The correct vocabulary describing Islamists who use or advocate use of force to bring about their political project is extremist, radical or militant Islamists. Why is this important? Because Le Pen asks that we call things by their names and, more importantly, because it is grossly bigoted to misrepresent Islamists as the totality of Islam, a religion that includes extremists such as terrorists as well as Sufis, who are completely pacifistic and worship through prayer, dance, and recitation of poetry.
23
Unfortunately, Sufis don't seem to have much influence on their coreligionists.
4
This left-wing daughter of left-wing Francophile intellectuals finds herself frighteningly in step with this woman whose beliefs my American "comrades" would have me dismiss out of hand.
Mais elle a raison. It is time for "political correctness" to give way to reality. Evil must be named, and the states of the Europe must protect themselves, their own citizens, and the rest of the world. It really matters not at this point who created the beast; it is at our doors, and we must stop it from coming any further in.
Mais elle a raison. It is time for "political correctness" to give way to reality. Evil must be named, and the states of the Europe must protect themselves, their own citizens, and the rest of the world. It really matters not at this point who created the beast; it is at our doors, and we must stop it from coming any further in.
324
Sure. "Far right leaning" often simply means "not my party." For example, Communist China is described as a repressive conservative country, not a liberal one. And yet, libertarians are described as conservative. Republicans too. The best description I have heard so far of Le Pen is, "a really smart version of Sarah Palin." Imagine that.
3
A huge mistake to jump on board with Marie Le Pen. To see these Jihadists as "evil" monsters of the biblical kind has nothing to do with rejecting political correctness. It is to mistake human beings for something they are not: not human. As dreadful as the threat we face from Jihadists is, it is within reason to try to understand what motivates them and respond appropriately. In seeing them as humans who are convinced of the authenticity of their world view we begin to know how to deal with them and neutralize their threat.
3
You give yourself away by choosing to use the right wing designated term "political correctness."
2
Ms. Le Pen: Cloaking your far-right agenda with liberal rhetoric cannot all of a sudden absolve you or your father from more than 30 years of vigorous anti-minority polemics. As you state, names speak for themselves, and in your case, bigoted speech and very close leanings to the far-right agenda and both right-wing Union for A Popular Movement and the National Front not only lend themselves directly and indirectly to more accurately defining your agendas but also calling you out for your sententious words and underlying racist message.
92
Recent events suggest that her fears about immigration were right on.
5
Regardless of political affinity, the second point in the article should not be controversial; assimilation policy, or more correctly, the lack thereof, in all European countries is a disaster. Asylum seekers are accepted, but then not allowed to work while being showered with pretty generous government welfare payments. Rightwing, anti-immigration parties all over Europe will have great success at the polls if the establishment parties fails to address this....
21
As an avid reader of history, I've always been struck by the Western propensity for self-destruction.
And, I'll admit, it may not be a purely Western thing. Perhaps, it's endemic to our species. A product of the desperate circumstances and ignorance into which human beings are born, compounded by the economic rapacity and relentless hunger for power of all ruling elites.
Nonetheless, having said all that, one has to wonder: What were the French thinking when they opened the flood gates of immigration to people whose world-view is so diametrically opposed to everything Western culture has laboriously achieved, or still aspires to achieve?
Is European Civilization destined to be drowned in a tidal wave Sharia Law, the disenfranchisement of women, freedom-crushing theocracy, and patriarchal despotism? For to call things by their right name, the latter are what modern Islam is all about.
And, I'll admit, it may not be a purely Western thing. Perhaps, it's endemic to our species. A product of the desperate circumstances and ignorance into which human beings are born, compounded by the economic rapacity and relentless hunger for power of all ruling elites.
Nonetheless, having said all that, one has to wonder: What were the French thinking when they opened the flood gates of immigration to people whose world-view is so diametrically opposed to everything Western culture has laboriously achieved, or still aspires to achieve?
Is European Civilization destined to be drowned in a tidal wave Sharia Law, the disenfranchisement of women, freedom-crushing theocracy, and patriarchal despotism? For to call things by their right name, the latter are what modern Islam is all about.
106
right on. lets not hide the facts out of fear. the only thing we have to fear is fear itself
12
Someone who will tell it like it is, and may be able to act on it.
15
If democracy is to truly survive, the limits imposed by 'political correctness' must be pushed aside. These acts must be viewed as an attack on the state and thus an attack on both freedom and democracy! It is and will continue to be a fight, make no mistake. Those of Islam faith must make up their minds as to which side their loyalty lies on, if it is on the side of freedom great, otherwise by default they also become the enemy! Sadly that is how the world works, especially the fundamentalist world. There is no grey / middle territory, only for or against.
31
That sort of black and white thinking is exactly what Ms LePen is laboring for.
If we were to adhere to it, here in France we would soon be living in Sarajevo.
Hopefully there are more of us who think that there are many nuances and that some of the problems need to be addressed long before we find ourselves with our backs against the wall
If we were to adhere to it, here in France we would soon be living in Sarajevo.
Hopefully there are more of us who think that there are many nuances and that some of the problems need to be addressed long before we find ourselves with our backs against the wall
As a French expatriate, it truly pains me that we've come to the point where I have to agree with Marine Le Pen. Yet, that time has come to pass.
Marine Le Pen has had one of the most cogent responses to this horrific crisis, and that is simply terrifying. What I fear is that, in a time of severe economic and political duress, the people of France will hear the good message of Le Pen here, and buy the entire basket of xenophobia and populist nationalism that the FN offers. If politicians from the UMP and PS (and, more generally, centrist parties across Europe) are to succeed, they need to truly get a grip. At the very least, the FN recognizes that there are structural problems in French society, something the mainstream UMP and PS patently refuse to recognize. However, if they wish to stop the FN steamroller from destroying France, they had better act soon with their own solutions.
Marine Le Pen has had one of the most cogent responses to this horrific crisis, and that is simply terrifying. What I fear is that, in a time of severe economic and political duress, the people of France will hear the good message of Le Pen here, and buy the entire basket of xenophobia and populist nationalism that the FN offers. If politicians from the UMP and PS (and, more generally, centrist parties across Europe) are to succeed, they need to truly get a grip. At the very least, the FN recognizes that there are structural problems in French society, something the mainstream UMP and PS patently refuse to recognize. However, if they wish to stop the FN steamroller from destroying France, they had better act soon with their own solutions.
58
Please, it is the most extreme kind of cynical opportunism!
Yes. As an American familiar with European history and the ideology of your parties, my reaction was very similar to yours.
The problem, though, is that center-left and center-rigth parties these days are so effete and scared of their own shadows that these fascist parties like the FN in France and some even worse ones farther east are going to be able to tap in to working class and middle class angst.
The near further in Europe is not a pretty one, i am afraid.
The problem, though, is that center-left and center-rigth parties these days are so effete and scared of their own shadows that these fascist parties like the FN in France and some even worse ones farther east are going to be able to tap in to working class and middle class angst.
The near further in Europe is not a pretty one, i am afraid.
2
Le Pen is exploiting the situation to promote her hate oriented party, but she is right to point out the confusion, hypocrisy and impotence of the French government, actually summed up in the last edition of Charlie-Hebdo, where the caption "Ten clowns were lost, ten new ones are found back" referring to the astonishing array of representatives of Islamists and terrorist-sponsoring states invited to participate to the January 11 march.
9
Beware. The most cunning propagandists don't lie, they tell partial truths, quote great minds & offer smooth platitudes. How are we to judge? Perhaps: "By there works shall you know them."
22
No culture or religion has been exempt from eras of violence committed by those who like to operate by coercing others for the sake of pride, power or wealth.
Yes, please, let's call them by the right name: extreme bullies and thugs. Take away rigid or strict or fundamentalist religious precepts, and the bullies will remain bullies, just without a formal excuse for their behavior.
Yes, please, let's call them by the right name: extreme bullies and thugs. Take away rigid or strict or fundamentalist religious precepts, and the bullies will remain bullies, just without a formal excuse for their behavior.
3
An honest student of history might add some qualifiers to the unequivocal characterization of "France is the land of human rights and freedom". Ms. Le Pen, though, is hardly the first European to conveniently suppress the darker chapters of their nations' histories -- colonization and its attendant attrocities, in France's case. The attacks in France were shocking and unacceptable, and all reasonable attempts should be made to avoid a recurrence of such violence. But that should not give people like Ms. Le Pen and her ilk the license to further their agendas. Aside from the problematic nature of her exceptionalism, the measures she proposes are unlikely to address the roots of violence and hatred of all hues in Europe. Would any of these measures have prevented Breivik's murderous onslaught in Norway some years ago? I hope the French response to this tragedy will be different from the American one over a decade ago.
72
Darker as opposed to what? Islam's brutal conquest of North Africa and the Mideast? The destruction and ethnic cleansing of the Jewish city of Medina in the 7th Century? The oppression of North Africa's indigenous Berbers or the Kurds? The frequent attempts of the last caliphate -- the Turkish Ottoman Empire -- to conquer Europe only to be finally stopped at the gates of Vienna on September 11, 1683 (think Osama bin Laden chose the date Sept 11 at random)? The British colonial rule over India was fairly brutal and exploitative? As was French rule over Indochina. Many of the Indian communities there came there to fill menial jobs and had to live in lower class neighborhoods. Where are all the Hindu and Buddhist suicide bombers and terrorists worldwide demanding the world conform to Hindu or Buddhist law?
11
The answer to your question of Breivik is yes, of course it would have been prevented. He fighting the same fight, although in a psychotic manner.
Very well said, thank you Ms. Le Pen - It is time to reinstate borders in Europe, Schengen makes absolutely no sense and has ruined Europe. I also applaud her willingness to strip of their French citizenship any person who does not buy into the values of their country. If you believe in religious fundamentalism, to the detriment of other citizens, then you should not be allowed to be a French citizen, because France is a secular country and believes in the separation of church and state. It is time to regain control of the country and to make sure that this type of horror is not repeated again.
50
The fact that you tacitly support a fascist ideology frightens me to the core, particularly since it seems so reasonable in this op-ed.
Marine le Pen is a brilliant propagandist, and I fear she may be the next President of France.
Marine le Pen is a brilliant propagandist, and I fear she may be the next President of France.
1
Scheningen has not ruined Europe; quite the contrary.
People like LePen, the UKIP and BNP, the NPD, the "Golden Dawn" and various other right-wing extremists are trying to ruin Europe, though, by fanning the flames of intolerance and xenophobia.
Just because she has been polishing her image of late doesn't mean she has changed her basic program.
People like LePen, the UKIP and BNP, the NPD, the "Golden Dawn" and various other right-wing extremists are trying to ruin Europe, though, by fanning the flames of intolerance and xenophobia.
Just because she has been polishing her image of late doesn't mean she has changed her basic program.
Immigrants should adapt to France, and France should also adapt to immigrants. For example, France has laws against anti-Semitism, but no laws against insulting other religions. Why the double standard? Either you treat everyone equally by having no laws against free expression; or you treat everyone equally by having laws against all forms of insulting speech. To do otherwise is hypocrisy, and I'm sure you can think of some French writer who has a good quote for that, too.
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I think if you try hard enough you might be able to think of a reason the situation of the Jews is slightly different.
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France has laws against anti-Semitism largely because of its sorry history: collaborators helping feed the Holocaust during WWII, and the whole Dreyfus Affair.
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Despite her best--and still transparent and largely failed--attempts at reinventing herself as just a traditional conservative politician, Marine Le Pen is a racist xenophobe in nice, french clothes. It's disgraceful and unfathomable that the New York Times would deign to publish anything with her byline, even boilerplate nonsense such as this. Would you print David Duke's editorializing on the events in Ferguson?
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The one allegation against her of racism that I found was when she said that the French are seeing ‘more and more veils’ and ‘more and more burkas’ and ‘after that came prayers in the streets’. Paul, is there more than that? This alone does not set off my racism alarms.
I'm with Al from NY (above). Sad to say, I've been believing the New York Times' line that she's a radical right wingnut. Her party, the Front National's agenda is (from Wikipedia):
"The FN vote is made up of the victims of globalisation. It is the small shopkeepers who are going under because of the economic crisis and competition from the out-of-town hypermarkets; it is low-paid workers from the private sector; the unemployed. The FN scores well among people living in poverty, who have a real fear about how to make ends meet."
She sounds pretty level-headed on the citizenship and immigration issues.
I'm with Al from NY (above). Sad to say, I've been believing the New York Times' line that she's a radical right wingnut. Her party, the Front National's agenda is (from Wikipedia):
"The FN vote is made up of the victims of globalisation. It is the small shopkeepers who are going under because of the economic crisis and competition from the out-of-town hypermarkets; it is low-paid workers from the private sector; the unemployed. The FN scores well among people living in poverty, who have a real fear about how to make ends meet."
She sounds pretty level-headed on the citizenship and immigration issues.
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Yes, let's call things by their proper name; as in when someone hates others because of their skin color or religion or culture, that person is called a 'Bigot'. No one was attacked by 'Islamic Fundamentalism' as ideas or dogma are intangibles unable to wield a weapon. The attacks were carried out by people and their motivation isn't at issue, the conditions that exist that allow fanatics to use Islam as their motivation are at issue. Treat the symptoms and eventually the disease will kill you; treat the disorder and you stand a much better chance of living.
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Conditions? Then how do you explain that most of the Islamic terrorists come from either middle class backgrounds or are actually from wealthy backgrounds? What tough conditions did Osama bin Laden face growing up? That his billionaire father wouldn't buy him a Porsche?
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Freedom from religion is an even more important right than freedom of religion.
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It's surprising that the New York Times hosts an article by someone who is quite openly racist. The american counterpart to the La Pens is David Duke.
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This comment board will be rife with this type of ad hominem attack on Le Pen; it is so much easier to peg her as a racist than dispute her intellectual arguments. Very sad, very nasty, very unnecessary. Mostly, very revealing.
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Sorry, but in USA there is still (that last time I checked) the concept of the First Amendment. Ms. Pen has all the rights to voice her concerns in the most direct manner, which maybe unpalatable to you. However she cannot be prevented from voicing her opinion and some (like me) would like to listen to her concerns.
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One can learn from everyone without adopting all their views.
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I appreciate Ms. Le Pen's thoughtful analysis of the current situation in France and other European nations which have a substantial number of Islamic immigrants. She is right to ask that there be an open discussion of what has happened, its causes and possible solutions.
Bill Maher speaks directly to terrorist threats and actions, noting that a disproportionate number of killing and attacks seem to emanate from those who purport to be of the Islam faith. Certainly there are many people who are Muslims who reject and are disgusted by what recently happened in Paris, yet in recent polls a fair percentage of Muslims though not condoning the actions of the those who held hostages and killed, understand the attackers rationale and tacitly accept these kinds of actions as permissible in defense of their faith.
What is unreasonable in asking that European countries which have long had open borders to implement border checks? Each time I travel to Canada from the Seattle area, there is a border check upon entering and leaving Canada. Though sometimes an annoyance because of the time waiting in a line of cars, I understand and appreciate the need for incoming visitors and those departing to be checked.
It is not unreasonable for any nation to protect itself from threats either from outside or those who live within its borders, to be vigilant in screening all immigrants of all faiths and nations who wish entry.
Bill Maher speaks directly to terrorist threats and actions, noting that a disproportionate number of killing and attacks seem to emanate from those who purport to be of the Islam faith. Certainly there are many people who are Muslims who reject and are disgusted by what recently happened in Paris, yet in recent polls a fair percentage of Muslims though not condoning the actions of the those who held hostages and killed, understand the attackers rationale and tacitly accept these kinds of actions as permissible in defense of their faith.
What is unreasonable in asking that European countries which have long had open borders to implement border checks? Each time I travel to Canada from the Seattle area, there is a border check upon entering and leaving Canada. Though sometimes an annoyance because of the time waiting in a line of cars, I understand and appreciate the need for incoming visitors and those departing to be checked.
It is not unreasonable for any nation to protect itself from threats either from outside or those who live within its borders, to be vigilant in screening all immigrants of all faiths and nations who wish entry.
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It is unreasonable because of the reality of the European Union and the plans for the future. Eliminating checks and barriers between the goods, people, and activities of EU countries is the whole point of the project. To get an idea of what Le Pen is proposing, suppose I suggested border checks between US States, so that Seattle residents had to go through them to go to Portland on business or Idaho for recreation?
Le Pen is transparent: Opposition to the EU project is fundamental to her party, so she is using the terrorist attacks cynically to advance a separate agenda. (She is also being untruthful. The French government has specifically said they are at war with fundamentalist Islam.) Objectively, it is hard to see what border checkpoint will do to help (the terrorists were Frenchmen and residents!). It all rather remains me of the Patriot Act, which mostly consisted of a raft of right wing "wish list" items promoted as "tough on crime" talking points for years on the campaign trail but having little to do with fighting terrorism. When 9/11 happened folks on the right, rather then stepping back and thinking hard about what is needed, just used the moment to push through their unrelated agenda. Le Pen appears to be doing exactly the same here.
Le Pen is transparent: Opposition to the EU project is fundamental to her party, so she is using the terrorist attacks cynically to advance a separate agenda. (She is also being untruthful. The French government has specifically said they are at war with fundamentalist Islam.) Objectively, it is hard to see what border checkpoint will do to help (the terrorists were Frenchmen and residents!). It all rather remains me of the Patriot Act, which mostly consisted of a raft of right wing "wish list" items promoted as "tough on crime" talking points for years on the campaign trail but having little to do with fighting terrorism. When 9/11 happened folks on the right, rather then stepping back and thinking hard about what is needed, just used the moment to push through their unrelated agenda. Le Pen appears to be doing exactly the same here.
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If you think you are being checked by Canada as you return to Seattle, you are mistaken. You are "questioned" by Canada as you enter, and by the USA when you return.
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At the root of home-grown radicalism, whether in France or any other country, are economic and social discrimination. France's problems with Muslim monitories is a direct consequence of its colonial era, in which a geographically, ethnically, religiously and socially "foreign" country was declared to be part of "France". The fact that today France has the largest Muslim population in Europe is NOT the result of Europe's open borders or the EU's liberal political asylum policies - it is a result of its own misguided policies, both in the past and the present (continued neglect in assimilating the Algerian-French into French society).
The Paris "terrorists" were only coincidentally jihadists, they were primarily disaffected French youth, who early on got into trouble with the law, and from there were willing recruits to something that gave their lives "meaning".
Yes, "western" societies must protect themselves against this kind of religious fanaticism-based murder and terror, and in the short run, unfortunately, this will have to rely on the police. But in the long run these problems can only be solved by making good on the rhetoric of multi-cultural societies based on economic equality and mutual respect.
In our own country, the US, idiotic proposals such as those by McCain, that these terror attacks can only be fought by additional military attacks in the Middle East, show a complete ignorance of the limits of military power and its negative side effects.
The Paris "terrorists" were only coincidentally jihadists, they were primarily disaffected French youth, who early on got into trouble with the law, and from there were willing recruits to something that gave their lives "meaning".
Yes, "western" societies must protect themselves against this kind of religious fanaticism-based murder and terror, and in the short run, unfortunately, this will have to rely on the police. But in the long run these problems can only be solved by making good on the rhetoric of multi-cultural societies based on economic equality and mutual respect.
In our own country, the US, idiotic proposals such as those by McCain, that these terror attacks can only be fought by additional military attacks in the Middle East, show a complete ignorance of the limits of military power and its negative side effects.
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Why then are not experiencing similar violence here in the States from the vast masses of disadvantaged Blacks, Latinos, and others?
The proposition that economic inequality is the cause of Islamist violence in Europe (a pet theory of the Left) is seriously wanting in generality and, therefore, not sufficient as an explanation.
The proposition that economic inequality is the cause of Islamist violence in Europe (a pet theory of the Left) is seriously wanting in generality and, therefore, not sufficient as an explanation.
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Ah, it's not Islam, it's those darned Republicans. Got it.
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The US has always been relatively immune from extreme politically motivated violence - despite the Great Depression, for example, the US did not turn to Fascism or Communism.
However, in terms of violence at lest partially motivated by economic and social alienation, just count the number of violent deaths which are perpetrated every day in the US -- this exceeds by several orders of magnitude the terrorism deaths in all other "western" countries combined.
However, in terms of violence at lest partially motivated by economic and social alienation, just count the number of violent deaths which are perpetrated every day in the US -- this exceeds by several orders of magnitude the terrorism deaths in all other "western" countries combined.
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Le Pen is correct that we should not hide-away from calling terrorists Islamic terrorists when that is clearly what they are. If a spade is a spade; call it so.
There is a rise in anti-Islamic feeling across Europe, most recently shown by the marches in Dresden, Germany. From my own experience I don't think the average person has a major problem with immigration, however when we see our own citizens attacking us we look for reasons and answers. And we get angry. Angry that Muslim communities do not assimilate, angry that we see Muslim women wearing costumes that are not compatible with our culture. It looks alien to us and if we are being attacked by aliens then we see problems with it. Some get annoyed that most meat is now Halal so that retailers can sell it to Muslims; when no one asked whether non-Muslims were happy to have their animals slaughtered this way. Angry that there has been a spate of Muslim men attacking vulnerable young white girls in Britain and that these men do not show any remorse, since they view such white girls as "fair game"
I honestly only see things getting a lot worse before they get better. Thank God our society doesn't have access to the guns you do in the US as I dread what could happen if we did...