Republicans who want to maintain Guantanamo despite the human-rights issues--and despite it serving as a factor that incites terrorists brings to mind Jimmy Carter's statement: "Republicans are people of narrow vision..." Does anyone else have an unsettling sinking feeling as if "children" are now in charge of Congress and the various committees and are more or less running the show? It's important and imperative to keep in mind come 2016 "Every election is determined by the people who show up and vote."--Pendulum Swing
4
Senator Lindsey Graham likes the idea of a perpetual war almost as much as the Pentagon brass. That our so-called 'war on terror' will go on indefinitely is music to the ears of all who want to keep the funding levels of our military forces on an even keel rather than to decreasing them drastically, as we should be doing.
Having said that, although this editorial's heart is in the right place, its focus on the recidivism rate of released Guantanamo prisoners is a political red herring. It is the complex thicket of legal issues surrounding non-state actors whose countries-of-origin no longer want them back, nor will accept them which is the major impediment to the closing of the Gitmo prison. If no countries are willing to take them, and our own Congress is unwilling to put them anywhere in prisons on the U.S. mainland, then we are stuck with them staying in Cuba.
The rise of a new type of soldier, one who doesn't represent a country, but a non-state movement, Muslim jihadism, combined with our own country's political gridlock, has produced a nightmare scenario of us indefinitely warehousing creepy fanatics next to innocent Muslims, and getting bad press around the world for doing so. There are no simple solutions here. The U.S. prison at Guantanamo Bay will be open for years into the future, possibly as long as a second term for Hillary Clinton's Presidency, if, God willing, her health maintains itself along with the goodwill of U.S. voters.
3
One of the big motivations for the Charlie Hebdo murderers was rage over those images from Abu Ghraib. The continuation of Gitmo, and the brutality exhibited there, act as a major recruiting tool for new jihadists. For the few recidivists who might go back to terrorist activities, thousands more are drawn to the cause. This is a no=brainer, but there seem to be too many politicians with no brains.
14
Senator Ayotte is absolutely clueless on the subject of Guantanamo. I (or, I suspect, any of the hundreds of other lawyers who have met repeatedly with them and actually know them personally) would be happy to engage her in a public debate any time, anywhere, in any forum. But she's unlikely to accept the challenge, because her assertions will not withstand close scrutiny.
I first spent time at Guantanamo as a young naval officer more than fifty years ago. I was proud of my country, and proud to serve it. But now whenever I visit the base, as I will again this week, I am deeply ashamed. Many of the detainees, including my clients, have done nothing legally or morally wrong and present no meaningful threat to this country. That is not only my opinion: it is also the considered, unanimous judgment of our national security agencies.
This country's continued imprisonment of innocent individuals makes a mockery of our professed respect for human rights and the rule of law. That so many of our political leaders insist on maintaining the status quo is a testament to either a profound and willful ignorance or a disingenuous and unprincipled pursuit of party politics.
I first spent time at Guantanamo as a young naval officer more than fifty years ago. I was proud of my country, and proud to serve it. But now whenever I visit the base, as I will again this week, I am deeply ashamed. Many of the detainees, including my clients, have done nothing legally or morally wrong and present no meaningful threat to this country. That is not only my opinion: it is also the considered, unanimous judgment of our national security agencies.
This country's continued imprisonment of innocent individuals makes a mockery of our professed respect for human rights and the rule of law. That so many of our political leaders insist on maintaining the status quo is a testament to either a profound and willful ignorance or a disingenuous and unprincipled pursuit of party politics.
22
"a prison that has deservedly brought America international scorn." That's puuting it a little light don't you think?
2
should be closed because it's an extra unnecessary financial burden on the US. The terrorists act Gitmo could be processed in our regular courts or our Marshall courts, if we are so concerned about having them on our land.
5
The American Left would rather that terrorists be tried in the United States, and that if found not guilty, for whatever reason, released into the public - with foreseeable consequences. I note the overwhelming hypocrisy of blaming Bush/Cheney while Obama still hasn't closed Guantanamo. HYPOCRITES!
4
This board is perpetuating a myth, that this is an icon for terrorist recruiting. Others here have already stated this but there is no evidence to the fact that this has increased recruitment nor I'd there ant evidence that if closed it will end recruitment. People are recruited due to economic and political reasons.
And who cares about the cost? This is a speck on our budget and cheaper than having to defend against these guys if allowed to go back. Send ethereal dies constitutionality come into play? This is war, these are war criminals, and don't deserve civil justice. Our judges gave no clue on military justice.
And who cares about the cost? This is a speck on our budget and cheaper than having to defend against these guys if allowed to go back. Send ethereal dies constitutionality come into play? This is war, these are war criminals, and don't deserve civil justice. Our judges gave no clue on military justice.
2
Would the very rational souls on the editorial board be so enthusiastic about releasing terrorists if they were place on the upper west side?
With regard to declining recitivism which in it's self is a very strange term to use. It can not be measured can it? It's not like they have probation officers. When they leave they their host countries as most due in about a year's time it's prudent to assume the worst. Some could go on to form groups more extreme than Al Qada and take over entire countries.......oh wait one of the recitivists already did that.
Gentlemen the world is a beautiful place, it is filled with many good people. Why throw in the towel so soon? Live a little, take a stand that means something and might dissapoint the "hug a puppy"-flat earth-islam is so peaceful crowd. Maybe you could print a naughty picture just to prove a point. Journalism like life occasionally takes courage to accompany convictions- why not try it, with each passing day you have less to lose.
With regard to declining recitivism which in it's self is a very strange term to use. It can not be measured can it? It's not like they have probation officers. When they leave they their host countries as most due in about a year's time it's prudent to assume the worst. Some could go on to form groups more extreme than Al Qada and take over entire countries.......oh wait one of the recitivists already did that.
Gentlemen the world is a beautiful place, it is filled with many good people. Why throw in the towel so soon? Live a little, take a stand that means something and might dissapoint the "hug a puppy"-flat earth-islam is so peaceful crowd. Maybe you could print a naughty picture just to prove a point. Journalism like life occasionally takes courage to accompany convictions- why not try it, with each passing day you have less to lose.
3
Where is this "international scorn" whereof you speak?
1
Ms Ayotte and her ilk are nothing more than sycophants for their right wing base who, like Ayotte, know nothing of the depravation of which they speak. Guantanamo has been nothing less than a tropical gulag where too many men have been used as scapegoats for a legitimate battle against terrorism.
It flys in the face of every principle this nation espouses that this disgusting facility and its proponents continue to warrant support.
Ms. Ayotte and Mr Graham simply have no shame. Mr. McCain has apparently forgotten.
It flys in the face of every principle this nation espouses that this disgusting facility and its proponents continue to warrant support.
Ms. Ayotte and Mr Graham simply have no shame. Mr. McCain has apparently forgotten.
6
Since most of the detainees cannot be tried for a crime, they should be released. There’s no legal basis to hold them for ten or fifteen years. Remember right to a TRIAL, in a TIMELY MANNER? These are really human rights affordable to every human being in the world. But if it’s a war, then they are being held, theoretically, as prisoners of war….but the war in Afghanistan is over, isn’t it? And if they are detained in the course of a war, don’t they have rights under the Geneva Conventions which we claim to adhere to? But I thought the theory was they were not held as prisoners of war? And weren’t some detained outside of Afghanistan? Does the amorphous, borderless, never-ending “War on Terror” permit detention for life with no trial and with no rights to due process? Weren’t some detained because greedy or revengeful associates labeled them as terrorists? The whole thing has been an abomination since the beginning and continues so. Tortured logic cannot justify what is happening there, nor can it repair the damage we’ve done to international law. Indefinite detention in a prison, without trial for more than 10 years, should choke the conscience of every American. Release or try them, now.
6
And when are we going to start prosecuting the abuses that we know happened there? The three "suicides" at Guantanamo were obviously deaths under torture, as the government's own autopsy report clearly revealed -- yes, even after being heavily redacted. There are eyewitnesses who saw those men removed from their barracks, and their bodies returned to the infirmary later that night. Holder's Justice Dept. claimed there was "insufficient evidence" for an investigation. I hope the new AG has more gumption, because there's no statue of limitations on murder.
3
Wow! I thought the editorial board a little more learned and educated than this. Sticking to a narrative without understanding what is the real issue isn't worthy of a publication like the NYTs. Much as candidate Obama, and Gen. Powell, didn't understand the issue in '08, but bludgeoned McCain and Republicans repeatedly, the issue isn't just a debate over what the Guantanamo prison represents symbolically. It is also about a new type of war, not envisioned in either our Constitution or in the documents and agreements which resulted in the Geneva Conventions. It is about the future as well as the past. Where is your stimulation of that conversation, rather than parading a decade old political add? I am an American Citizen and I don't think anyone captured in conflict with us deserves the Constitutional protections I have. I also don't want a federal judiciary, uniformed about military conflicts, less informed about foreign affairs and equally inexperienced in relaxing federal rules of evidence to accommodate the transient and inexact nature of warfare, making these decisions. So, then what do we do with these people and future captures? What is our collective agreement on how to process prisoners, who don't qualify for the Geneva Convention, which remains true to our American values? In the past, we executed these types of people. Now we don't. Closing a prison? That isn't the proper narrative. As the President found out when he took office. It's not that simple
5
Many in the East know substantially more about the West than those in the West even care to know about themselves. In that environment, fear created by generalities and lack of factual statements can drive public opinion. Luckily, we have Republicans, Democrats, and Independents willing to engage in serious discussions of our hard earned rights including but certainly not limited to:
Habeas Corpus - Boumediene v. Bush - Miranda Rights - Code of Conduct
It is in no way wrong to be overly concerned for our collective safety, ever. So, can we elevate the Gitmo discussion above fear to facts and our laws? We are all Americans and we are smart enough to handle that.
Habeas Corpus - Boumediene v. Bush - Miranda Rights - Code of Conduct
It is in no way wrong to be overly concerned for our collective safety, ever. So, can we elevate the Gitmo discussion above fear to facts and our laws? We are all Americans and we are smart enough to handle that.
Many countries in the world have Guantanamo-style facilities. The U.S. is not exceptional.
1
Why are people making it sound as though the terrorists are reacting to Gitmo being open when the reality is that these terrorists groups were killing innocent people long before Gitmo was used to retain / refrain terrorists....
Does anyone really believe that the terrorist will become peaceful and retire if Gitmo was closed?
Those 3,700 or 37,000 recruits will join a terrorist cell not because of Gitmo being open and detaining prisoners, but because they are against "western" ideology....
So 37 less terrorists out are 37 less to track that can kill hundreds or even thousands of innocent people...
People should really questions others' motives since it sounds like they are against "imprisoning" terrorists altogether since Gitmo is just a structure......
Does anyone really believe that the terrorist will become peaceful and retire if Gitmo was closed?
Those 3,700 or 37,000 recruits will join a terrorist cell not because of Gitmo being open and detaining prisoners, but because they are against "western" ideology....
So 37 less terrorists out are 37 less to track that can kill hundreds or even thousands of innocent people...
People should really questions others' motives since it sounds like they are against "imprisoning" terrorists altogether since Gitmo is just a structure......
3
I think that opening Guantanamo was one of the stupidest things ever done by the United States. It is so, so sad, that Gitmo is still open. I dunno, what is wrong with us? How can the majority of Americans justufy torture of Bush/Cheney era? I hope that one day I will be able to proudly say: "Finally, no more Gitmo. No more torture! Feels great!"
17
Why do you assume torture is going on at Gitmo? Why do you think the prisoners get fat? From what I hear, the prisoners at great expense get better medical care than most Americans.
2
I'm embarrassed that Kelly Ayotte represents our state . . . a voice from within Guantanamo . . . http://gu.com/p/45vk9/sbl
7
The Republicans are against closing Guantanamo for one reason. President Obama made its closing one of his objectives when he first took office. Therefore, Republicans are against its closing because they want Obama to fail in all of his objectives.
47
Some of your sentiment may be right, because that is the Democratic narrative which is blindly followed. NOTHING the opposition could be saying can ever have merit and, therefore, it must be just opposing Obama. As the President found out when he took office, the closing of that prison wasn't simply about closing the prison but more about 'what do we do with the prisoners?' Neither he, nor the Democrats or for that matter Gen Powell, has a solution for that which can be supported. That is, has been, and will continue to be the more serious conversation. This is a new conflict with deadly implications for innocent people which wasn't foreseen by the Geneva Accords or the Constitution. In the past, such prisoners were executed, frankly, because they were not considered legitimate combatants under the Geneva Conventions. Are you suggesting we give them the same Constitutional rights as American Citizens or execute them? I, and most learned Americans, oppose that right on principle and legal grounds. So, what is the way forward? The Pres hasn't addressed that, because he sticks to a simplistic argument. But it doesn't serve the country well.
4
"You don’t release prisoners until the war is over."
Senator Graham forgets the party line (and that of their pocket judges): these are not prisoners of war, but "enemy non-combatants", an Orwellian concept if I ever heard one. Prisoners of war actually have rights under the Geneva Convention and he forgets that we would not be able to torture these guys or hold them in the medieval conditions forever if they were prisoners.
Indeed, if one judge ever rules there are any rights or standards afforded to enemy non-combatants, the administration would have been in court the next day saying, we misspoke, these are not non-combatants, but sugar plum bumpkins and not subject to any laws, and then the 14 year legal cycle would begin all over again.
Senator Graham forgets the party line (and that of their pocket judges): these are not prisoners of war, but "enemy non-combatants", an Orwellian concept if I ever heard one. Prisoners of war actually have rights under the Geneva Convention and he forgets that we would not be able to torture these guys or hold them in the medieval conditions forever if they were prisoners.
Indeed, if one judge ever rules there are any rights or standards afforded to enemy non-combatants, the administration would have been in court the next day saying, we misspoke, these are not non-combatants, but sugar plum bumpkins and not subject to any laws, and then the 14 year legal cycle would begin all over again.
14
Non state combatant actors do not have rights under the Geneva Convention. Get your facts straight, read the Convention, it excludes such people.
2
This is surely the dumbest issue that has ever captured the attention of America.
America is at war with al Qaeda et al. As such it needs to have a place where it can hold captured enemy combatants until the end of the war. It has the right to do that under our laws and international law. Indeed it has the duty to create such a place because otherwise it would be compelled to take no prisoners which is the most barbaric of all war policies. And Guantanamo is such a place. It was created there because the Bush Administration thought that if they brought the prisoners to our soil, they would gain all the rights of ordinary criminal suspects. As it turned out, SCOTUS determined that Gitmo was essentially ours and it gave the prisoners some rights but not much, a hearing to determine whether the government has a reasonable basis for believing they are enemy combatants. But if the government has that basis, it can hold them until the war is over. And it would seem that the government could transfer them all to a federal prison on our soil without giving them any more rights. They could still be held without charges until the war is over.
And the notion that Gitmo is a recruitment tool is ridiculous. How does that work? What is the pitch? Al Qaeda beheads its prisoners. How does holding ours at Gitmo persuade young men that we are worse. It makes no sense unless they are all demented.
And how is killing all suspects with drones not much worse?
America is at war with al Qaeda et al. As such it needs to have a place where it can hold captured enemy combatants until the end of the war. It has the right to do that under our laws and international law. Indeed it has the duty to create such a place because otherwise it would be compelled to take no prisoners which is the most barbaric of all war policies. And Guantanamo is such a place. It was created there because the Bush Administration thought that if they brought the prisoners to our soil, they would gain all the rights of ordinary criminal suspects. As it turned out, SCOTUS determined that Gitmo was essentially ours and it gave the prisoners some rights but not much, a hearing to determine whether the government has a reasonable basis for believing they are enemy combatants. But if the government has that basis, it can hold them until the war is over. And it would seem that the government could transfer them all to a federal prison on our soil without giving them any more rights. They could still be held without charges until the war is over.
And the notion that Gitmo is a recruitment tool is ridiculous. How does that work? What is the pitch? Al Qaeda beheads its prisoners. How does holding ours at Gitmo persuade young men that we are worse. It makes no sense unless they are all demented.
And how is killing all suspects with drones not much worse?
5
Did I miss a congressional declaration of war? War without end, that's your plan, from the safety of the keyboard.
13
You're just not listening to President Obama, who makes precisely the claim that Congressional authorization for war is still valid.
Bob, you might want to brush up on your knowledge of the US Constitution and Geneva Convention. They are both very revealing.
2
Of course. Guantanamo is an example of zombie foreign policy, a sensible short term measure (to hold terrorists, not torture them) which should have gotten a silver bullet years ago. after crafting a secure system for handling and trying them, which we certainly have now.
Guantanamo helps terrorist recruiting, puts our soldiers even more into harm's way; it's morally wrong and harmful to vital national interests, among them working with Muslim nations and communities to contain ISIL/Al Qaeda. et al. And Guantanamo's continuance makes us look incompetent and fearful of shadows, not a good thing in a time of war.
Guantanamo helps terrorist recruiting, puts our soldiers even more into harm's way; it's morally wrong and harmful to vital national interests, among them working with Muslim nations and communities to contain ISIL/Al Qaeda. et al. And Guantanamo's continuance makes us look incompetent and fearful of shadows, not a good thing in a time of war.
9
If only they had used Guantanamo to rehabilitate the younger prisoners instead of torturing them, it would be a lot safer to release them.
3
Guantanamo is our national shame. I agree with the generals that "the prison is a symbol of torture and justice delayed". I guess politics has gotten to McCain's view on the subject - shame on him!
7
"...Mr. Graham, is a travesty…", no comma necessary. So is Guantanamo. We even hold some innocent men there just to keep them from talking about how we treated them. Top Secret! Guantanamo belongs to Cuba. Give it back. Save millions, as well as that little thing called national honor.
6
The intractability of the racist Republicans to further demean the conduct of the nation for political gains demonstrates the inability of those hateful creatures who are as sinister as the terrorist for perpetuating the recruiting symbol for future jihadis.
2
Where is? Who are, the sources of scorn for America whom we so often hear about?
Among these places are there no people in the world in favor of America? Or is "American scorn" just a figment of some editor's imagination of a virtual population out there somewhere whom the editor feels must exist in agreement with him.
Show us. Tell us.
The NYT is not the world, nor are your people.
Among these places are there no people in the world in favor of America? Or is "American scorn" just a figment of some editor's imagination of a virtual population out there somewhere whom the editor feels must exist in agreement with him.
Show us. Tell us.
The NYT is not the world, nor are your people.
2
Every single one of these detainees were picked off of some kind of battlefield that involved THEM TRYING TO KILL US...did you hear me??? KILL US. Even if the 6% recidivism number is more accurate than the 30% number, does it really matter should it be that one of these people were to harm your son or daughter after their release?? Think about that...YOU get the call one day next year that it's YOUR son or daughter who has just been killed. and you're told it's one of these released detainees that is responsible...tell me, you still gonna feel good about his release??
4
Not true. Many were kidnapped by local enemies and sold to the Americans with some story.
13
It's just an inanimate piece of real estate. Obama is trying to blame Gitmo for his own failings. He could have closed it at any time. Do the words "commander-in-chief" ring a bell? Yoo-hoo!
4
One hundred and twenty two men would fit very comfortably in a commercial jet. The jet would then take these gentle souls to Afghanistan. After the US government pays a significant bribe to the Afghan government to allow their entry. Once there they can be transported close to the nearest ISIL or Taliban area of control, their choice, and released.
When we meet them again on the battlefield hopefully we would have learned to kill them and not take prisoners. Unless it's not really a war?
When we meet them again on the battlefield hopefully we would have learned to kill them and not take prisoners. Unless it's not really a war?
1
I do not see the point of releasing jihadists, and I suspect the jihadists see this as a sign of weakness. Showing weakness to the enemy is to encourage the enemy, i.e., to inspire more jihadism. If Gitmo demonstrates to the world's Muslims that America is bad, why do they all want to come here?
3
There are only 122 detainees left. The recidivism rate is 30%. That means if we turned them all loose, 37 fighters will re emerge.
Now consider the recruiting value Guantanamo provides terrorists organizations. Does it cause 37 people to embrace Jihad each year? Or is it more like 3700, or 37,000?
There is much Islam can do from within to prevent acts of Jihad. But we should not throw fuel on the fire and grow terrorists by maintaining this incarceration without end.
Have the trials now. Stop stalling over silly arguments about how the trials should be carried out. Just make a decision regarding format and have the trials.
If we can't find the political will to do that, they have already served a long prison sentence. They have already been punished, guilty or not, and without a trial. We cut deals with murderers all the time. This wont be the first time we released killers for the supposed good of the state. We demand justice but justice cannot be served without due process. That is our responsibility.
We have not lived up to our principles. We have failed. Close it down.
Now consider the recruiting value Guantanamo provides terrorists organizations. Does it cause 37 people to embrace Jihad each year? Or is it more like 3700, or 37,000?
There is much Islam can do from within to prevent acts of Jihad. But we should not throw fuel on the fire and grow terrorists by maintaining this incarceration without end.
Have the trials now. Stop stalling over silly arguments about how the trials should be carried out. Just make a decision regarding format and have the trials.
If we can't find the political will to do that, they have already served a long prison sentence. They have already been punished, guilty or not, and without a trial. We cut deals with murderers all the time. This wont be the first time we released killers for the supposed good of the state. We demand justice but justice cannot be served without due process. That is our responsibility.
We have not lived up to our principles. We have failed. Close it down.
28
Bruce,
If as you say, "we have not lived up to our principals", we did it during FDRs detention of over 100,000 Americans of Japanese descent in concentration camps right here at home in America. How will this latest hand full in Cuba make things worse?
If as you say, "we have not lived up to our principals", we did it during FDRs detention of over 100,000 Americans of Japanese descent in concentration camps right here at home in America. How will this latest hand full in Cuba make things worse?
Bruce Rozenblit's comment is the ultimate bottom-line to Guantanamo: the number of inmates who go back to fight is far less than the number of fighters recruited by Guantanamo remaining open.
In effect, we choose to shoot ourselves in the foot, year after year. Why not give foreign aid to Al Queda? Close Gitmo and give the money directly to them. That would be cheaper than what we are doing now.
In effect, we choose to shoot ourselves in the foot, year after year. Why not give foreign aid to Al Queda? Close Gitmo and give the money directly to them. That would be cheaper than what we are doing now.
International scorn - yes indeed! Based out of where, Iraq, Yemen, Iran, Pakistan, Syria, France surely you jest. The terrorist's sitting in Cuba earned the right and deserved the punishment, turning the other cheek now will only release them so that they can try once more. Shear folly!
1
Not proven. Not tried.
5
It's hard to shake the impression that guys like Graham just love their wars.
11
Maybe the NYT editorial board could enlighten us as to what to do with enemy combatents captured on the battlefield. Where should we house them? I don't remember Guantanomo being the reason for the 9/11 attack!
3
But POW's are not taken to Gitmo...........
4
The US would get the same adverse propaganda regardless of where the detainees were kept. Guantanamo makes more sense than any other location. Remember this propaganda against Guantanamo was started by the American left as a hit at the Bush administration. It has since been picked up by others. If the detainees were kept in Singing it would be the same.
2
Of course NYT is against imprisoning terrorists whether or not they return to their former murderous ways. The West needs to realize that there is a full-fledged war going on... a war in which the opponent's goal is not merely victory but the absolute eradication of civilization itself. Our very lives - not just the lives of our soldiers... our very existence as a society... depends on winning this war. And you don't win wars in newspapers or courtrooms or prisons.
3
Let's try them in military courts and make terrorism a capital crime. Problem solved.
1
Terrorism is a capital crime.
So is torture.
So is torture.
4
Guantanamo is now becoming slowly part of our cherished American values!
5
" In November 2013, Mr. McCain, backing a failed initiative that would have authorized transferring some Guantánamo detainees to the United States, read out loud on the Senate floor a letter from 38 retired generals and flag officers who supported shutting the facility."
So McCain , the guy who chose Sarah Palin to be the VP, if he won the 2008 election, changed his mind on Gitmo. Not so surprising given the Palin example of his critical thinking skills.
So McCain , the guy who chose Sarah Palin to be the VP, if he won the 2008 election, changed his mind on Gitmo. Not so surprising given the Palin example of his critical thinking skills.
3
Ms Ayotte is from NH, Mr McCain is from Arizona and Lindsey Graham is from, well we all know where this delusional war-monger is from!
These three hawks would commit the U.S. and our troops to perpetual war to help their campaign contributers from the military/industrial complex!
They are without honor and they have no shame
These three hawks would commit the U.S. and our troops to perpetual war to help their campaign contributers from the military/industrial complex!
They are without honor and they have no shame
8
How is America losing the "war on terror" Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Pakistan, Yemen, Libya, Nigeria, Kenya and Somalia? By engaging in activity that helps recruit more enemy hearts and minds than America can ever possibly kill, wound, displace, deter or win over.
Kidnapping, torturing and indefinite detention at Guantanamo is contrary to American interests and values. Along with establishing the moral legal justice basis for any other nation or group doing likewise including to Americans.
Coupled with American support for Sunni Muslim Arab secular military theocratic royal autocrat dictator tyrant "allies", the Israeli "ally" occupation, blockade/siege, exile and 2nd class citizenship for Christian Muslim Arab Palestinian Israelis and having 2.3 million Americans in prison (25% of the world history leading total with only 5% of the population) America is stained as a cynical hypocritical master of perfidy. The fact that China, Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia and North Korea execute more people than America does not help.
Senators Ayotte, McCain and Graham have staunch bipartisan allies in keeping Guantanamo open among the New York, New Jersey and Connecticut congressional delegations led by that insufferably hollow cynical corrupt crony capitalist plutocrat mouthpiece draft dodger Charles Schumer.
Kidnapping, torturing and indefinite detention at Guantanamo is contrary to American interests and values. Along with establishing the moral legal justice basis for any other nation or group doing likewise including to Americans.
Coupled with American support for Sunni Muslim Arab secular military theocratic royal autocrat dictator tyrant "allies", the Israeli "ally" occupation, blockade/siege, exile and 2nd class citizenship for Christian Muslim Arab Palestinian Israelis and having 2.3 million Americans in prison (25% of the world history leading total with only 5% of the population) America is stained as a cynical hypocritical master of perfidy. The fact that China, Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia and North Korea execute more people than America does not help.
Senators Ayotte, McCain and Graham have staunch bipartisan allies in keeping Guantanamo open among the New York, New Jersey and Connecticut congressional delegations led by that insufferably hollow cynical corrupt crony capitalist plutocrat mouthpiece draft dodger Charles Schumer.
6
Gitmo is an inspiration to the desperate, disenfranchised, the ignored populace of Saudi Wahhabi Madrasas around the world. It would appear that we keep it open to provide evidence that America is as bad as portrayed by the imams, mullahs, and muftis who subscribe to Sharia law and refer to all non-believers as Kafir. Gitmo confirms our status as false.
12
Actually, although I am greatly in favor of closure, I fear it has come too late. America will never be able to remove the stains of torture and water boarding, and our future American POWs will endure great retaliatory harm. Calling it a "travesty" is being much too lenient - it is closer to being our worst mistake in the entire 20th century. We are closing the barn doors much too long after the animals have escaped..........
12
The animals did not escpe, they are walking the street with impunity: Bush, Cheny, the NEOCONS, the CIA officials, the TORTURERS. wlking free, defending torture, picking new candidates for tomorrow.
10
Gitmo is, but should not be, a partisan issue. By and large, Republicans like it, and Democrats do not.
The National Anthem sings us as "the home of the brave." But support of Gitmos shows us fearful, insecure, weak. A handful of terrorists discharged to foreign countries or, if fairly tried and released, cannot make a significant difference to national security.
The Pledge of Allegiance declares "liberty and justice for all," not just some, not just Americans, not just friends, not just whites or Christians (or maybe Jews).
The Declaration of Independence declares, "all men are created equal" under the law. The Constitution provides for a government under laws and guarantees individual rights, including, among others, due process.
So Gitmo is a denial of all that is quintessentially American and what Americans have traditionally professed. Taking a stand in support of it is a repudiation of fundamental American beliefs and values.
Do only Democrats believe in America? If not, why are Republicans supporting Gitmo?
The National Anthem sings us as "the home of the brave." But support of Gitmos shows us fearful, insecure, weak. A handful of terrorists discharged to foreign countries or, if fairly tried and released, cannot make a significant difference to national security.
The Pledge of Allegiance declares "liberty and justice for all," not just some, not just Americans, not just friends, not just whites or Christians (or maybe Jews).
The Declaration of Independence declares, "all men are created equal" under the law. The Constitution provides for a government under laws and guarantees individual rights, including, among others, due process.
So Gitmo is a denial of all that is quintessentially American and what Americans have traditionally professed. Taking a stand in support of it is a repudiation of fundamental American beliefs and values.
Do only Democrats believe in America? If not, why are Republicans supporting Gitmo?
29
Bush was given an immense challenge after 9/11/01:
Protect the nation from further attacks on our homeland.
He succeeded.
Protect the nation from further attacks on our homeland.
He succeeded.
5
And yet so many Americans continued to die under his watch.
3
Bush/Cheney were caught with their pants down on 9/11, no amount of spin about "he kept us safe" will ever change that fact. Other than the underwear bomber, maybe al Quaeda was savoring its coup and just simply laid low. Or it simply takes time to plot these attacks so Bush lucked out.
5
He destroyed the honor, justice, and hope that America had always stood for. He swore to protect and defend the CONSTITUTION and because of his lack of undersanding he failed to do that.
6
If Senator McCain once pronounced that “Guantánamo is a betrayal of American values,” his position today can be nothing but a betrayal of his own values. This is nothing new. The good legislator needs to retire before he tears his own legacy to shreds.
As for Senator Lindsey Graham, he has long since shown himself to be the tool of fools or the fool of tools, spouting nonsense so transparent that one can only laugh, albeit ruefully.
And Kelley Ayotte? Who's she? Another minor-league Obama-basher.
www.endthemadnessnow.org
As for Senator Lindsey Graham, he has long since shown himself to be the tool of fools or the fool of tools, spouting nonsense so transparent that one can only laugh, albeit ruefully.
And Kelley Ayotte? Who's she? Another minor-league Obama-basher.
www.endthemadnessnow.org
15
How does holding an innocent person for ten or twelve years without trial make us safe?
32
• “This is a war without end,” [Senator Lindsay Graham] told reporters. “You don’t release prisoners until the war is over. I would argue the war is in many ways just starting.”
"It does not matter whether the war is actually happening, and, since no decisive victory is possible, it does not matter whether the war is going badly. All that is needed is that a state of war should exist."
"Oceania was at war with Eurasia; therefore Oceania had always been at war with Eurasia." ~ GEORGE ORWELL in "1984" written in 1949.
Graham was predicted. Orwell was way ahead of his time.
Even more so was H.L. MENCKEN, who saw through the fog: “The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”
"It does not matter whether the war is actually happening, and, since no decisive victory is possible, it does not matter whether the war is going badly. All that is needed is that a state of war should exist."
"Oceania was at war with Eurasia; therefore Oceania had always been at war with Eurasia." ~ GEORGE ORWELL in "1984" written in 1949.
Graham was predicted. Orwell was way ahead of his time.
Even more so was H.L. MENCKEN, who saw through the fog: “The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”
14
Senator Ayotte has no shame. But many of us back in New Hampshire have more than enough to make up for that.
6
Just divvy up the one hundred or so 'prisoners', among one hundred or so largest city and county judicial entities across the United States. Do all one hundred or so trials in the same six month span and convict or release.
Within the large cities are men and women who know, practice, are astoundingly good at, LAW and the US Constitution. Prosecution and defense, each side makes their best case.
Gitmo can be closed in a week.
Within the large cities are men and women who know, practice, are astoundingly good at, LAW and the US Constitution. Prosecution and defense, each side makes their best case.
Gitmo can be closed in a week.
6
Build facilities adjacent to the Bush Library to house them. That would complete it.
5
I like that idea. Perhaps were should have an annex in Chicago because of promises broken?
Many views are to do away with Guantánamo so to improve the international image of the US. Obviously that would be a good idea but the problem is that Guantánamo has become the reality of what is America: jailing many Muslims whose real crimes are unknown, in fact in may cases may not even exist. To close that place now certainly should be expedited but in terms of benefitting the image of the US just refer to the old saying " a minute late and a penny short." It will take many more years for the US to be fully respected ones more.
7
These Senators are simply aiding and abetting the enemy. The only others who want to keep Guantanimo open is Al Quieda. It is in humane, condemned by the rest of the world and incredibly expensive to tax payers. I guess these Senators are happy to spend the money of others to eliminate the freedoms of others who pose no real risk. If released prisoners actually did ever return to the battle, the U.S. has proven itself quite capable of killing terrorists. If they do not, then what right do we have to torture them with indefinite captivity? This obvious torture rightly just recruits sympathy for apparent innocents.
3
"We need a time out", said Ms. Ayotte, referring to the prisoners in Guantanamo, even when so many are innocents. This is indeed a travesty of justice; if Ms. Ayotte were the one inside, she would't be so 'cavalier'about condemning others to rot in that 'hell'. And Mr. McCain's attitude in that regard is, quite frankly, an abomination, given his own 'rotting' in jail long ago. Is this a political slide into oblivion from morals, where courage and decency have gone AWOL?
12
Many of the people held at Guantanamo were not guilty of anything. Twelve years of incarceration with no trial, and YOU want a time out?? What kind of balderdash is that? People were robbed of their freedom. One minute of wrongful incarceration is too much. Either try them or set them free. Guantanamo was set up to circumvent our constitution and our values and as long as it is kept open it is a stain on America. Empty and demolish that prison forthwith and return Guantanamo Bay to Cuba. Close this sad chapter in our history once and for all.
34
Again, I echo your words. No justice in this country of laws, because of deviousness of a corrupt government (Bush/Cheney, and current members of Congress).
3
So your editorial board, having known about this nasty chapter in our history for more than ten years has decided that it must close. It took me ten seconds to reach the same conclusion the minute read about it many years ago. What a pathetic stand you have taken ten years too late after much of the suffering has been abated, but not all. Leadership on moral issues of the day, you sadly lack.
12
I do not really understand this idea of prosecuting terrorists who have been captured on the battlefield. They are not criminals they are the enemy. That doesn't make keeping Guantanamo open moral or sensible.
5
The US is learning a great deal from Gitmo … no, not actionable intell, it's been pretty worthless in that respect. But as a model for future camps, including those for imprisoning domestic critics.
8
Nobody will take the prisoners anywhere else and the Presidents grand plan to release them little by little and claim they are innocent and harmless has proven wrong. They keep showing up killing Americans and others in war zones and terrorists attacks after we let them out. What we have is a case of a liberal do gooder who had no clue what he promised in an effort to get elected.
4
Our prison can't hold them? Physically yes. Legally maybe not.
1
The easiest way for Obama to close Guantanamo would be to issue an executive order making it permanent,& make some speeches about its necessity, perhaps as a modest federal job program. The Republican congress would then reverse their positions, and send him a bill to shut it down.
5
Ah, how soon we forget that our enemies hate us and want nothing more than to murder us. It's a prison and I would argue that the lower recidivism rate during the Obama presidency is because by the time they are released, they are too old or worn out to do much harm- or they have learned their lesson. How can this be that all that time in a humane facility- yes humane and safe- is acting as a deterrent and thus providing some assurance of our safety.
2
We know that a very high number of those released from conventional prisons return to a life of crime. That has never deterred us from releasing them, perhaps because courts would not stand for it.
That they do become criminals again is in part the result of the sort of treatment they receive in prison and afterwards. Is it then surprising that non-charged inmates of Guantanamo, who have received much more inhumane treatment, return to attacking the US when they are released?
Guantanamo itself has all the requirements to be a factory for creating terrorists.
That they do become criminals again is in part the result of the sort of treatment they receive in prison and afterwards. Is it then surprising that non-charged inmates of Guantanamo, who have received much more inhumane treatment, return to attacking the US when they are released?
Guantanamo itself has all the requirements to be a factory for creating terrorists.
9
Guantanamo symbolizes against all those what America has been teaching the world for...JUSTICE and DISCRIMINATION. In 21st century, a prision depriving its inmates of any judicial access is not only inhuman but also unimaginable.
7
Article refers to Ayotte as a "defense hawk". Isn't that a contradictory term?
3
No, not a contradictory term. A redundancy.
2
Is this about McCain or about Ayotte, Ernst et al, and positioning Repub women out front to try to get women voters in 2016?
7
Mr. McCain is still bitter over losing to President Obama!! Anything President Obama wants to implement Mr. Mccarl is against...sound reasoning doesn't come into play in his book anymore. Very unfortunate!
8
As if the rest of the world doesn't have plenty to be ashamed of ..... not to mention prosecution issues. The Hague comes to mind for the finger pointers.
1
So as long as someone is dying of cancer, we can ignore the disease in our body politic?
There must be rational, decent Republicans somewhere in America. Will they ever take the opportunity, and find the guts, to stand up for American values rather than silently supporting unrestrained greed?
18
If wishes came true, beggars would be kings.
It was hard to sit through the movie "Unbroken" knowing we have done worse, and for longer.
7
Judy the detainees are not beaten or starved. Nor are they worked at dangerous jobs. There well being and health are monitored. There is no comparison between Guantanamo and the Japanese POW camps of WWII. Their condition is monitored by various human rights organizations.
1
Ask yourself one question: Is this America the same one that you were taught was fair, honest, and supportive of it's legal system?
11
Sen. Kelly Ayote sounds like a fine choice for VP. She gets it. The Times , as usual does not. These folks are out to kill us. Keeping at least a few of them locked up is just plain common sense.
3
Perhaps the main reason Obama has been attempting to expedite the closing process of Gitmo is because it is prime real estate for a casino/ resort especially since he has lifted the travel ban and wants to re-establish relations with the Cuban government....
Timing is everything even if it is being masked ,,,,
Timing is everything even if it is being masked ,,,,
1
Senator Lindsey says: "I would argue the war is in many ways just starting.”
Senator Lindsey never met a war he didn't like. And you can just take a good guess at which sector of American industry he gets support from, and you would probably be right.
Think boom-boom.
Senator Lindsey never met a war he didn't like. And you can just take a good guess at which sector of American industry he gets support from, and you would probably be right.
Think boom-boom.
10
Why are we always such slow learners????
1
The larger issue is the US and the West's attention to the Islamic Jihadis and their declared war against us.
Will we get serious? Or is this a criminal matter?
Will Obama ever permit the government to use the term Islamic terror?
Gitmo avoids the criminal justice system, which is not adequate for these terrorists.
God forbid, we have another attack. Then more bleeding heart liberals will be afraid and silenced.
Will we get serious? Or is this a criminal matter?
Will Obama ever permit the government to use the term Islamic terror?
Gitmo avoids the criminal justice system, which is not adequate for these terrorists.
God forbid, we have another attack. Then more bleeding heart liberals will be afraid and silenced.
11
How will calling it "Islamic terror" help? How does avoiding our criminal justice system advance America's image around the world? We're supposed to be a nation of laws. These prisoners have never been charged with anything, never been tried in a court of law. They were "arrested" by--whom? We liberals seem to be the only people who believe in the Constitution.
12
Obama the Silencer? Lord bless you, I hope your efforts are well rewarded.
Gitmo is flatly un-Constitutional. The specious argument that the 'detainees' are not on US soil and so devoid of human rights smacks of the Articles of Confederation and you had to be a landowner and slaveholder to vote.
Gitmo is our biggest moral shame it has no place in International law, it has no place in US law. Its only real use is to train those who hate us. We are our own worst enemy makers.
Two wrongs don't make a right.
Gitmo is our biggest moral shame it has no place in International law, it has no place in US law. Its only real use is to train those who hate us. We are our own worst enemy makers.
Two wrongs don't make a right.
7
I believe even former President Bush said he'd like to close down Gitmo. That's not the issue. The issue is what do you do with the prisoners there. Those charged with war crimes are a very small fraction. Many of the rest have been authorized for release, but there's no where to send them. (Most of these folks are Yemeni.) As President Obama has discovered, few countries want these individuals and who knows what bribes were required to get a few countries to take a few former combatants.
Does the NYT advocate releasing these folks in the US? If so, the editors should say so. But without a viable proposal for what to do with the non-criminal former combatants, this editorial is just so much hot air.
Does the NYT advocate releasing these folks in the US? If so, the editors should say so. But without a viable proposal for what to do with the non-criminal former combatants, this editorial is just so much hot air.
7
Buy them a new suit, give them a few bucks and take them right back where they were picked up in the first place. Then, close the whole Guantanamo base down for good.
1
The war without end, that is "in many ways" just starting, is the war to restore American values betrayed when we participated in torture and justice delayed.
33
All we have to do is bring the prisoners to the US, or grant them the same rights to trial, etc. that US nationals have. Then we will rid ourselves of this obscenity which provokes Mideastern terrorists and the Muslim world. We will also have made a step toward joining the civilized world.
52
"Civilized"? Where exactly would that be?
Cynthia,
Are you, as an American Woman, willing to cover yourself in the Moslem style in order to remove the number on obscenity that provokes Moslem terrorists? Because if you are not nothing else is going to help one bit.
Are you, as an American Woman, willing to cover yourself in the Moslem style in order to remove the number on obscenity that provokes Moslem terrorists? Because if you are not nothing else is going to help one bit.
1
Many of the prisoners at Guantanamo seem to have been pawns caught in the wrong place but guilty of nothing an in some cases were turned in by knowingly false accusations designed to get rid of some personal rival. So here we are six years into the Obama residency and still 122 remain many of whom are still just political pawns. And now crusading John McCain jumps o board after a mid air spin around and joins with Graham in claiming all of those still held can never be released, but without any factual basis to support such a heinous aberration of our American system of justice. And luckily for John McCain, we ended the war in Vietnam otherwise he still might be locked in the Hanoi Hilton.
46
Many were also turned over to the U.S. to obtain a quick bounty with little investigation of actual ties to terrorism.
3
“"Guantánamo remains a recruiting poster for terrorists, which makes us all less safe.” This statement, reflecting the views of 38 retired generals and flag officers, is a main reason for closing Gitmo.
We are helping our enemy to recruit and radicalize more militants to fight against us and the world.
We have shown these suspected terrorists can be held safely and secure in our existing prisons while saving millions of tax payers’ money.
This should dispel any fear surrounding the closure of Gitmo. We, after all, are the home of the brave.
We are helping our enemy to recruit and radicalize more militants to fight against us and the world.
We have shown these suspected terrorists can be held safely and secure in our existing prisons while saving millions of tax payers’ money.
This should dispel any fear surrounding the closure of Gitmo. We, after all, are the home of the brave.
35
The home of the gibbering fearful!
2
An American prison: what a cozy place to be.
1
"Duty, Honor, Torture", the new West Point CIA mnemonic. "No person shall be ... compelled to testify against himself nor deprived of life, liberty or property without due process of law." To paraphrase Hugo Black I assert that "No person" means no person and not not no persons except the ones we choose to torture. "...nor cruel and unusual punishment inflicted." Torture is no longer to be considered cruel, and for the rest of our history it certainly won't be unusual. Attorney General Holder was kept from indicting the previous administration members who authorized and paid for the torture chambers and torturers, along with the doctors who stopped the torture sessions when life was in jeopardy, nursed the prisoners back to health, so they could be tortured again. Fine Doctors sworn to "..first, do no harm" just aid and abet torture.
The NEOCONS were also sworn into their appointed office and swore to protect and defend the Constitution. So were Holder and Obama. They havde turned their back on their oath and on the constitution. Here's a point the Republicans won't present to impeach them. But the people and history have long memory. When we get over this "aberration" of our government, called that by Tony Blair, who had to be complicit in the rendition and torture to say it was an aberration, the fact of Obama and Holder failing us and the Constitution will be writ in LARGE LETTERS for all time. "My country, right or wrong" has been wrong for a long time.
The NEOCONS were also sworn into their appointed office and swore to protect and defend the Constitution. So were Holder and Obama. They havde turned their back on their oath and on the constitution. Here's a point the Republicans won't present to impeach them. But the people and history have long memory. When we get over this "aberration" of our government, called that by Tony Blair, who had to be complicit in the rendition and torture to say it was an aberration, the fact of Obama and Holder failing us and the Constitution will be writ in LARGE LETTERS for all time. "My country, right or wrong" has been wrong for a long time.
26
The flip-flop dynamic duo, also known as the McCain-Graham due, have flipped once too many. The logical reason is political opportunity, possibly in the form of horse trading.
13
You can fool some of the people all the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on.
-George W. Bush
They are concentrating on those that can give them political support in other ways by showing how 'strong' they are in this instance. 'We have heard your concerns (fears), and we will protect you.'
-George W. Bush
They are concentrating on those that can give them political support in other ways by showing how 'strong' they are in this instance. 'We have heard your concerns (fears), and we will protect you.'
12
If Obama says the sky is blue, Senator Ayotte will say he's lying and demand a Congressional investigation as a prelude to impeachment.
49
Fortunately for us, foreign leaders know the difference between Obama and the GOP. I dread to think how those leaders might interact with the US if we get a GOP president. But then, the GOP might, once again, show its true colors and allow Mitjebb to close GTMO.
As an ex-New Hampshire and military man, I am appalled at Senator Ayotte’s position. I fully supported her when she ran for the Senate but her embrace of the National Rifle Association post-Sandy Hook and her wildly inane opposition to the closing of Guantanamo have made me reconsider. I think most of us had expected so much more from her.
Opening Guantanamo was one of the stupidest things ever done by the United States. Closing it is a no-brainer. And Kelly Ayotte and John McCain know it.
Opening Guantanamo was one of the stupidest things ever done by the United States. Closing it is a no-brainer. And Kelly Ayotte and John McCain know it.
127
OK do you want these people housed in your town? I don't and Gitmo was a great idea which is secure for those who need to be in prison.
2
“Guantánamo is a betrayal of American values,”
Ms Ayotte is especially tone deaf when it comes to American values. The people of New Hampshire should send her back to the hole she crawled out of.
Ms Ayotte is especially tone deaf when it comes to American values. The people of New Hampshire should send her back to the hole she crawled out of.
11
"stupidest"
and ugliest!
and ugliest!
1
It's telling that the GOP would opt for snippets like "we need a time-out", and "...argue that the war (on terror) is in many ways just starting" as ways of flexing their new muscles, and giving the woman senator from New Hampshire a spot in the national limelight. These vacuous words, after we've spent 13 years and trillions of dollars fighting terrorism, in all its forms. There is no question that Gitmo was, and is, a rallying cry and recruiting tool for terrorists, so any rate of recidivism of the remainder of detainees is dwarfed mightily by the thousands of eager recruits that are swayed by this horrific stain on our nation's values, let alone how the rest of the world views it. The French response to a "Patriot Act" of their own in the wake of the Charlie Hebdo massacre shows the world the difference between their courage and this GOP cowardice in the face of terrorism.
It is sad that McCain joined this lot given his courageous prior stance, and the use of the Charlie Hebdo massacre as a reason for the "time out" almost seems tragi-comic, at best. Like we need another defense zealot like Ayotte to remind us that the GOP will waste billions of dollars in coming years to prove that they know what's best when it comes to fighting terrorism, while the nation's infrastructure, education systems, and health care systems collapse.
It is sad that McCain joined this lot given his courageous prior stance, and the use of the Charlie Hebdo massacre as a reason for the "time out" almost seems tragi-comic, at best. Like we need another defense zealot like Ayotte to remind us that the GOP will waste billions of dollars in coming years to prove that they know what's best when it comes to fighting terrorism, while the nation's infrastructure, education systems, and health care systems collapse.
21
John McCain is the Senator who is most opposed to torture, having experienced it himself. Is he not aware that we are force feeding detainees in this facility, something that has been condemned as torture by the United Nations.
Even as we oppose holding these detainees who have never been charged, much less convicted; force feeding those individuals who deem their existence worse than death is an abomination that should not be tolerated.
AlRodbell.com
Even as we oppose holding these detainees who have never been charged, much less convicted; force feeding those individuals who deem their existence worse than death is an abomination that should not be tolerated.
AlRodbell.com
11
To write of a 'recidivism rate' for persons never convicted of any crime is an Orwellian piece of nonsense.
What do Republicans seek in perpetuating the disgrace that is the Gitmo prison? Even if the US suddenly released all those still held there, what is there about these individuals that could uniquely harm us 'on the battlefield' of Iraq or Syria or Afghanistan? They certainly don't have any military intelligence to deliver to Al Qaeda or other jihadists. Would they be more zealous in seeking to do us harm? There seems to be little shortage of such combatants in the Middle East already.
Surely any plausible contribution they could make is more than offset by the harm done by their continued imprisonment without charges under US auspices.
This is an appalling legacy of the intentional war the US sponsored in Iraq. The quicker we admit that there is no good to be achieved in holding these men, the closer we will be to redressing our standing among the larger community of nations. And, not least, the stain on our commitment to the rule of law in the conduct of our country's affairs.
What do Republicans seek in perpetuating the disgrace that is the Gitmo prison? Even if the US suddenly released all those still held there, what is there about these individuals that could uniquely harm us 'on the battlefield' of Iraq or Syria or Afghanistan? They certainly don't have any military intelligence to deliver to Al Qaeda or other jihadists. Would they be more zealous in seeking to do us harm? There seems to be little shortage of such combatants in the Middle East already.
Surely any plausible contribution they could make is more than offset by the harm done by their continued imprisonment without charges under US auspices.
This is an appalling legacy of the intentional war the US sponsored in Iraq. The quicker we admit that there is no good to be achieved in holding these men, the closer we will be to redressing our standing among the larger community of nations. And, not least, the stain on our commitment to the rule of law in the conduct of our country's affairs.
16
When I look at Gitmo, I see bad policy repeating itself, but under the American flag. Since most Americans are totally ignorant of European history, they don't know that many important Europeans were kept in prison camps during the Second World War to serve as bargaining chips with the Allies, or as security for family fortunes. These prisoners included Léon Blum, the socialist French premier of the Popular Front, who was kept in Schloss Sigmaringen, not to mention others kept as hostages in their own homes.
Gitmo's keeping us safer is a fiction created by the "smartest people in the room" who cooked up the endless "war on terror" to control Americans in their own country. These people, who include Cheney and Rumsfeld, were part of a "think tank" called the Project for the New American Century. (It also included Jeb Bush.) They deliberately ignored eight months of warnings of an attack on the "homeland" to ensure that 9/11 happened so that it could be the casus belli for another invasion of Iraq, this one to seize its oil.
There was no Al Quaeda in Iraq prior to our 2003 invasion. Our policies of "rendition" and torture fed prisoners to Gitmo, where due process became a travesty.
We copied our World War II enemies in many ways, and it is coming back to haunt us.
To our senators who think Gitmo is quite all right, they are short-sighted in the extreme, and are taking this pose in their prostitution of office for funding and playing to the ignorant, "low-information" base.
Gitmo's keeping us safer is a fiction created by the "smartest people in the room" who cooked up the endless "war on terror" to control Americans in their own country. These people, who include Cheney and Rumsfeld, were part of a "think tank" called the Project for the New American Century. (It also included Jeb Bush.) They deliberately ignored eight months of warnings of an attack on the "homeland" to ensure that 9/11 happened so that it could be the casus belli for another invasion of Iraq, this one to seize its oil.
There was no Al Quaeda in Iraq prior to our 2003 invasion. Our policies of "rendition" and torture fed prisoners to Gitmo, where due process became a travesty.
We copied our World War II enemies in many ways, and it is coming back to haunt us.
To our senators who think Gitmo is quite all right, they are short-sighted in the extreme, and are taking this pose in their prostitution of office for funding and playing to the ignorant, "low-information" base.
13
Guantánamo was not a "travesty". It was a rational response to the recognition that a deadly enemy walked among us and sought to kill innocents; and a response to a new kind of warfare where our enemies didn't wear uniforms and didn't represent states. Its failing, in the end, is that we couldn't find a clever way to get rid of it and it's lasted altogether too long.
Kelly Ayotte may understand that an unacceptable recidivism rate is still pretty dangerous even though it's improved over the years -- and this is from inmates cleared to be released by "risk" analyses. We haven't yet seen a Boston or Sydney or Paris outrage committed by a former Guantánamo inmate, but who would want to explain the improved recidivism rate to surviving family members if it DID happen?
But, in the end, we're going to have to find a solution to this problem, and the solution will need to be closing the facility and releasing the remaining inmates to SOMEONE'S care. But note that this will affect how we conduct war.
Expect when that happens, and the likelihood is very slight that a prisoner of war thought by captors to be highly dangerous will be put away safely, that the number of captured prisoners in this category will drop precipitately, quite regardless of what the Geneva Conventions or official rules of engagement might be.
Kelly Ayotte may understand that an unacceptable recidivism rate is still pretty dangerous even though it's improved over the years -- and this is from inmates cleared to be released by "risk" analyses. We haven't yet seen a Boston or Sydney or Paris outrage committed by a former Guantánamo inmate, but who would want to explain the improved recidivism rate to surviving family members if it DID happen?
But, in the end, we're going to have to find a solution to this problem, and the solution will need to be closing the facility and releasing the remaining inmates to SOMEONE'S care. But note that this will affect how we conduct war.
Expect when that happens, and the likelihood is very slight that a prisoner of war thought by captors to be highly dangerous will be put away safely, that the number of captured prisoners in this category will drop precipitately, quite regardless of what the Geneva Conventions or official rules of engagement might be.
1
I wish that President Obama would explain to the American people why he feels the need to close Guantanamo. Why it is of apparent little risk to do so and why he feels that it is in our best interest as a Nation to do so.
The upcoming State of the Union would be a perfect forum in which to tell the American people why he believes that the base should be closed as opposed to this dribbling out of prisoners every so often.
The American people are confused about this and many other things concerning this war on terror. Instead of spending an hour describing the benefits of more pork barrel spending to the raucous applause of the gallery, perhaps the time could be better spent in spelling out our overall strategy with regard to this "War Without End".
The upcoming State of the Union would be a perfect forum in which to tell the American people why he believes that the base should be closed as opposed to this dribbling out of prisoners every so often.
The American people are confused about this and many other things concerning this war on terror. Instead of spending an hour describing the benefits of more pork barrel spending to the raucous applause of the gallery, perhaps the time could be better spent in spelling out our overall strategy with regard to this "War Without End".
4
Guantanamo symbolizes the dark underside of what we trumpet as American exceptionalism. Elsewhere in the world, it's seen for what it is: hypocrisy.
Preaching justice to others is so much easier than practicing it ourselves. Gitmo remains open for the simple reason that we don't have the political will -- or the moral fiber -- to close it.
This is what happens when people allow themselves to be governed by fear rather than conscience. We may not like to admit it, but what we've collectively become in practice, rather than theory, is Dick Cheney.
Preaching justice to others is so much easier than practicing it ourselves. Gitmo remains open for the simple reason that we don't have the political will -- or the moral fiber -- to close it.
This is what happens when people allow themselves to be governed by fear rather than conscience. We may not like to admit it, but what we've collectively become in practice, rather than theory, is Dick Cheney.
53
I discovered some years ago to my disappointment that Senator Kelly Ayotte is just another Republican demagogue, opportunistic in times of crisis and selective in her reading of the constitution. President Obama had done all he can to close Guantanamo. Republicans have done all they can to institutionalize torture.
36
"President Obama had done all he can to close Guantanamo."
I very much doubt it.
I very much doubt it.
1
None of these problems were ever necessary. Isolation in Cuba was an idea to keep the prisoners beyond reporters & courts. Also, that the CIA and army would have time, space and freedom from oversight to act as they pleased. After years of such isolation, it was found that prisoners were not so dangerous. But our secret police had found their metier in "pounding, slamming, drowning and ramming things" into the alimentary canals of prisoners. So clearly immoral and illegal was their behavior, that agents destroyed all visual evidence:a felony, risking prison rather than allow anyone to see what agents with names and faces, had been doing, when away from our shores: on ethical & moral holiday from the Constitution.
Much as the USA was unable to finally clear the scars of imprisoning US citizens of Japanese families during the early part of World War Two, (actions that never approached the ugliness and cruelty of the Patriot Act arrests, black prisons and our "Fortress d'if cum Devils Island"; and we will never wash away the bloodstains and smears until we make similar admissions of guilt and hold those responsible for it , taking some form of legal "corrective" action. Rather than send Muslim soldier/terrorists to foreign lands, we can send them to our already severely unpleasant maximum security prisons, there they can't complain they're denied constitutional rights. But If we do nothing; America will always walk with "legal limp" as a consequence and cruel reminder.
Much as the USA was unable to finally clear the scars of imprisoning US citizens of Japanese families during the early part of World War Two, (actions that never approached the ugliness and cruelty of the Patriot Act arrests, black prisons and our "Fortress d'if cum Devils Island"; and we will never wash away the bloodstains and smears until we make similar admissions of guilt and hold those responsible for it , taking some form of legal "corrective" action. Rather than send Muslim soldier/terrorists to foreign lands, we can send them to our already severely unpleasant maximum security prisons, there they can't complain they're denied constitutional rights. But If we do nothing; America will always walk with "legal limp" as a consequence and cruel reminder.
7
What sort of "Legal Limp" do we now walk with from FDR's unjust wartime detention of over 100,000 Japanese Americans? How will the few in Cuba make this worse?
2
The recidivism rate in Guantanamo is less than in most--actually all--of the prison system in the mainland US! To keep prisoners locked up for years without charging them with a crime is utterly contrary to American laws and values. How we think we can occupy some mythic moral high-ground when this is going on is incomprehensible. For the truly dangerous prisoners, we need to try them and put them in jail if their crimes warrant it.
One thing is for certain, Guantanamo is a festering sore of anger and shame for the United States. It was seen as a clever solution to a problem of giving people the Bush administration thought didn't deserve the rule of U.S. law a berth in a black hole from which they could never escape. It was too clever by half. Ruinously expensive, ineffective and seemingly interminable, Guantanamo needs to be closed now. Give American citizens closure on this horrible chapter in our current history.
One thing is for certain, Guantanamo is a festering sore of anger and shame for the United States. It was seen as a clever solution to a problem of giving people the Bush administration thought didn't deserve the rule of U.S. law a berth in a black hole from which they could never escape. It was too clever by half. Ruinously expensive, ineffective and seemingly interminable, Guantanamo needs to be closed now. Give American citizens closure on this horrible chapter in our current history.
87
It's not just about Guantanamo. At the level of national politics it's all about posturing. Obama betrayed his promise to shut down the military prison because he and the Democrats don't want to be painted as soft on terrorism, even when there's no logic to it. For example, what sense did it make to assassinate Osama Bin Laden out of hand rather than trying to capture him, while keeping people locked up for years who had only a tiny fraction of the information that he must have had?
So now the Republicans are doing more of the posturing, getting ready for the next election and exploiting each new terrorist attack for partisan gain.
The root problem is that there is no end to the global ambitions and arrogance of America's economic and political elites, which is why Lindsay Graham's platitude about "a war without end" is taken seriously. Perhaps the best example of war without end was that of the Roman Empire of antiquity, which did indeed span centuries and ended when the empire went into economic, political and military decline, having piled up mountains of enemies and exhausted its own human and material resources, including the resources gained through that endless series of wars.
Here's another platitude that actually makes sense: Those who do not learn from history are fated to repeat it.
So now the Republicans are doing more of the posturing, getting ready for the next election and exploiting each new terrorist attack for partisan gain.
The root problem is that there is no end to the global ambitions and arrogance of America's economic and political elites, which is why Lindsay Graham's platitude about "a war without end" is taken seriously. Perhaps the best example of war without end was that of the Roman Empire of antiquity, which did indeed span centuries and ended when the empire went into economic, political and military decline, having piled up mountains of enemies and exhausted its own human and material resources, including the resources gained through that endless series of wars.
Here's another platitude that actually makes sense: Those who do not learn from history are fated to repeat it.
18
David, it is my understanding that Obama tried to close Guantanamo but Congress passed a law forbidding him from doing so. This was done by including the bar to closing Guantanamo in the 2011 Defense appropriations bill.
4
Let us not play fast and loose with the numbers. "Recidivism" is the repeated or habitual relapse, as into crime (dictionary.reference.com). Considering the low level of detainees charged, indicted, and convicted of the 750 plus originally imprisoned, it appears to be a mistake to paint subsequent involvement with terrorist or insurgent groups as "recidivist" behavior per se. Of the six of 88 released since January 2009, and the 33 percent of 532 freed prior to that time, I would suspect few, if any, had actionable evidence of terrorist activity held against them considering the prolonged detentions with the abrogation of habeas corpus.
I just wonder how many new terrorists our heavy-handed Gitmo justice system may have created. If our own actions create the very enemies we face in this endless struggle, our tax dollars may be going to aid, abet, and assist the other side. Even Joseph Heller's satire didn't reach this level of inanity in "Catch 22".
I just wonder how many new terrorists our heavy-handed Gitmo justice system may have created. If our own actions create the very enemies we face in this endless struggle, our tax dollars may be going to aid, abet, and assist the other side. Even Joseph Heller's satire didn't reach this level of inanity in "Catch 22".
36
Cuba has protested US presence on Cuban soil since 1959 and as late as 2013 at the UN has called the US base there "usurped territory". Cuba does not cash the "rent checks".
The best solution to Guantanimo would be simply to return it to Cuba, naval base, prison and everything else on sovereign Cuban territory.
The best solution to Guantanimo would be simply to return it to Cuba, naval base, prison and everything else on sovereign Cuban territory.
14
What a load of nonsense, Cuba started protesting the US presence in Guantanamo when the communist took over. Do you think a landlord should be able to evict you because he will not cash your checks? As an Israeli you should know that the UN grinds out junk resolutions everyday of the week.
2
"The best solution to Guantanimo would be simply to return it to Cuba, naval base, prison and everything else on sovereign Cuban territory."
And Cubans convert it to a Zoo.
And Cubans convert it to a Zoo.
Being that Guantanamo is a leased settlement in Cuba, and not actual American territory in the purest sense, it was probably chosen to house the detainees as "Prisoners of war" without being opposed successfully in court. If Gitmo was actual American territory, one could argue that this is illegal "Preventative Incarceration". But would they? The Gitmo inmates are obviously not clear cut cases of crime or they all would have been judged long ago.
Are you shocked by the idea of "Preventative incarceration" here in America? Do you wish to jail people before they commit a crime?
It happens all the time in the mental health field.
Are you shocked by the idea of "Preventative incarceration" here in America? Do you wish to jail people before they commit a crime?
It happens all the time in the mental health field.
7
I'm disappointed that McCain shows so little empathy for the prisoners at Guantanamo. By his standards, he would never have been released from the Vietnamese prison. Did he really think that he got fair treatment--no trial or a faked trial, torture and horrible living conditions? If not then he needs to rethink his position, in my opinion. I'm not surprised by Lindsay Graham who comes across as a blowhard who is very impressed with himself. Sometimes he makes some perceptive, kind statements, just to get carried away with his inflated sense of self-importance. The new Senator I think just wants some camera time with more senior members of chamber--but another hawk we don't need. What is needed in this case is disclosure of the risk assessment techniques and results of the evaluations so that there can be an informed debate. After all, we release many prisoners from US prisons who go on to perpetrate horrific crimes. Frankly, I think keeping prisoners at Guantamo at a cost to the taxpayers of $3 million per person per year is a very expensive form of entertainment--political drama--that we can ill afford. If you're looking to cut back on wasteful government spending, start right here! Close Guantanamo.
33
"I'm disappointed that McCain shows so little empathy for the prisoners at Guantanamo."
I am not. He has shown his very bad judgement by selecting Palin as a vice-Presidential candidate.
I am not. He has shown his very bad judgement by selecting Palin as a vice-Presidential candidate.
It is clear to anyone talking to the young in the Middle East that one of the continued irritants along with the illegal occupation of Palestine that enables recruitment is Guantanamo. Both these are issues that America is in a position to resolve. And yes what on earth can have altered McCain's position.
19
But the war must be without end or else defense hawks, and Republicans in general, will have to find another group to hate in order to distract from the paucity of creative ideas they present for the country both in foreign and domestic policy. It's not so easy to find groups big and powerful enough to make even a flimsy case that they actually threaten the safety of Americans more than, say American gun owners or motor vehicle drivers, about whom we do next to nothing. (People suspected, not convicted, of drunk driving are not held in jail for a decade to make sure they don't someday once again drive drunk and kill other Americans, last I heard. And we know what a good job we do in identifying those with guns who might someday kill twenty American citizens in Connecticut.)
16
Republicans are against providing money for community college but are for spending $3 million a year to house each of the detainees who have been cleared for release after what sounds like a thorough review. They are working just as hard to derail constructive talks with Iran. And let's keep banging our heads against a wall with our Cuba policy, right? The list goes on.
If Ayotte wants to cite the Paris massacre, someone ought to direct her attention to the thousands being recruited from marginalized communities in the so called "first world" to take up arms for Al-Quaeda and ISIS. Even if all the detainees left at Guantánamo joined up with terrorists upon their release, it's just a drop in the bucket compared to the propaganda value the prison represents for terrorist organizations.
Representative Barbara Lee, quoting a clergyman in her 9/14/01 statement on the floor of the House as the sole member of that body to vote no on authorizing military action after 9/11, said, "As we act, let us not become the evil that we deplore."
With out treatment of prisoners in this conflict, that is what we've become.
If Ayotte wants to cite the Paris massacre, someone ought to direct her attention to the thousands being recruited from marginalized communities in the so called "first world" to take up arms for Al-Quaeda and ISIS. Even if all the detainees left at Guantánamo joined up with terrorists upon their release, it's just a drop in the bucket compared to the propaganda value the prison represents for terrorist organizations.
Representative Barbara Lee, quoting a clergyman in her 9/14/01 statement on the floor of the House as the sole member of that body to vote no on authorizing military action after 9/11, said, "As we act, let us not become the evil that we deplore."
With out treatment of prisoners in this conflict, that is what we've become.
99
It just doesn't ring true that people who stone women to death for adultery, behead infidels and give a 1,000 lashes to blasphemers are really all that bothered by Guantanamo. The further notion that if we grant due process and put them in a supermax in Colorado that the islamists are going to view the situation any differently is nonsense.
15
By "people," do you mean ALL Muslims, MKM? Are all Christians, then, made in the image of Pastor Terry Jones?
www.endthemadnessnow.org
www.endthemadnessnow.org
4
@ MKM - Please don't try to bring logic into the very, very emotional argument of US wrong everyone else right.
1
If my brother punches me during a tussle, it is soon forgotten. If you were to punch my brother arguing the same thing, I would immediately jump to my brother's defense, not because I agree with him, but because you have attacked my family. This is the nascent stage of family feuds which can last generations. Such is human nature: some apparent hypocrisies arise due to a hierarchy of conflicting loyalties.
3
From Sen Ayotte's press release:
" the administration seems to be more interested in emptying and closing Guantanamo, rather than protecting the national security interests of the United States and the lives of Americans," said Senator Ayotte. "
Letting all the prisoners go and closing Guantanamo tomorrow would do more for national security than anything else proposed.
The US has lost its moral status in the world (and that includes a great many Americans). Closing Guantanamo would be a step back on the right path. The first step was probably the Senate report on CIA torture because it admits wrongdoing.
It will take a long time to regain respect. The "bad publicity" is ongoing. See this report in the Guardian as an example:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/16/-sp-guantanamo-diary-expose...
" the administration seems to be more interested in emptying and closing Guantanamo, rather than protecting the national security interests of the United States and the lives of Americans," said Senator Ayotte. "
Letting all the prisoners go and closing Guantanamo tomorrow would do more for national security than anything else proposed.
The US has lost its moral status in the world (and that includes a great many Americans). Closing Guantanamo would be a step back on the right path. The first step was probably the Senate report on CIA torture because it admits wrongdoing.
It will take a long time to regain respect. The "bad publicity" is ongoing. See this report in the Guardian as an example:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/16/-sp-guantanamo-diary-expose...
48
Everyone should read this Gaurdian article (above; thank you). It brought tears to my eyes and will further damage the global image of the US.
2
Almost exactly 6 years ago, just after the newly-inaugurated President Obama signed the "Close Gitmo" order, I posted on an NBC Newsvine: "Finally, no more Gitmo. No more torture! Feels great!" I even remember how liberated and exhilarated I felt...
It is so, so sad, that Gitmo is STILL open, and the majority of Americans feel that Bush/Cheney torture was justified :( What is wrong with Americans? It so pains me to see my new mother nation, the one that I ran to from my previous mother nation (USSR), which openly indulged in practices of torture, coercion and endless confinement/imprisonment, is almost like the "old country" now! I just cannot stand it, it is so, so wrong! It will not make America any safer, or happier, that much I know. It will only make this wonderful country, the once-thought-of cradle of Freedom and Justice, to become even more scared, even more consumed with nonsense, divided, dysfunctional, and deteriorating.
It is so, so sad, that Gitmo is STILL open, and the majority of Americans feel that Bush/Cheney torture was justified :( What is wrong with Americans? It so pains me to see my new mother nation, the one that I ran to from my previous mother nation (USSR), which openly indulged in practices of torture, coercion and endless confinement/imprisonment, is almost like the "old country" now! I just cannot stand it, it is so, so wrong! It will not make America any safer, or happier, that much I know. It will only make this wonderful country, the once-thought-of cradle of Freedom and Justice, to become even more scared, even more consumed with nonsense, divided, dysfunctional, and deteriorating.
108
"Bush/Cheney"
Please do not forget Rumsfeld who was the military component of the Triumvirate.
Please do not forget Rumsfeld who was the military component of the Triumvirate.
2
Get the terrorists out of Gitmo. Put the drug cartel leaders in.
They are killing more Americans than the terrorists.
They are killing more Americans than the terrorists.
6
Cops are killing more Americans than terrorists.
7
Guantánamo is a stain upon the American being. In the early days of the 'war on terror' it was justified to the American people as a necessity similar to the the Japanese internment camps. But it has never been a necessity and in fact has been a facet in the overwhelming strategic mistake we continue to make to this very day.
By unilaterally declaring to the world a 'war on terror' we do nothing more the glorify the brutal criminals that attack our homes and family. They are not warriors, they are brigands, they are berserkers, they are terrorists. They do not deserve the honor we extend to them by calling them 'prisoners of war.'
It may well seem expedient to bomb them, kill them without legal process, torture them and detain them without trial but it is not. Against a group of berserkers who consider suicide bombers a utilitarian tactic jailing men we cannot prove did anything wrong is just handing weapons to the enemy.
By unilaterally declaring to the world a 'war on terror' we do nothing more the glorify the brutal criminals that attack our homes and family. They are not warriors, they are brigands, they are berserkers, they are terrorists. They do not deserve the honor we extend to them by calling them 'prisoners of war.'
It may well seem expedient to bomb them, kill them without legal process, torture them and detain them without trial but it is not. Against a group of berserkers who consider suicide bombers a utilitarian tactic jailing men we cannot prove did anything wrong is just handing weapons to the enemy.
44
"it was justified to the American people as a necessity similar to the the Japanese internment camps"
That is a very good and exact comparison. I expect we will feel the same shame in time, the only question being how long a time before we come to our senses.
That is a very good and exact comparison. I expect we will feel the same shame in time, the only question being how long a time before we come to our senses.
3
McCain: against torture, for torture chambers. Sounds like the reasoning of the person he selected to be his running mate, after a keg party in the stretch hummer.
61
Why, for goodness' sake, could we ever assume that people, kidnapped & imprisoned for over a decade, would be our 'friends'? Let them go home, they will at least be able to live lives of their own. And, torture-derived statements should be inadmisable in court.
12
One thing Congress likes about Guantanamo is the frisson of visiting the prison holding very scary, to them, Islamofascists and gazing at the one, until recently, last frontiers of the Cold War.
Political junketeering, especially this time of year, allows the nabobs to bill the taxpayers for "layovers" in South Beach, Key West, Ocean Reef, Boca, whatever.
The MIami Herald reported the new school proposed for military dependents at Gitmo will cost, even before the mandatory defence cost overruns, a cool $65 MILLION, as the Herald points out $250K per student compared to $30-40K here in high cost SoFla.
Also DOD doesn't want to give up the best real estate deal in the Indies, $4,500. per year for 45 square miles of a tropical island, oceanfront included. Especially as the fiends Castro haven't cashed one check since 1961.
Political junketeering, especially this time of year, allows the nabobs to bill the taxpayers for "layovers" in South Beach, Key West, Ocean Reef, Boca, whatever.
The MIami Herald reported the new school proposed for military dependents at Gitmo will cost, even before the mandatory defence cost overruns, a cool $65 MILLION, as the Herald points out $250K per student compared to $30-40K here in high cost SoFla.
Also DOD doesn't want to give up the best real estate deal in the Indies, $4,500. per year for 45 square miles of a tropical island, oceanfront included. Especially as the fiends Castro haven't cashed one check since 1961.
27
I'd like much more detail on how McCain came to reverse his position. Did he trade that for something? Did he do it for donor money? Was it just polling?
Most of all, does he believe it?
McCain is the real story here. Dog bites man when a neocon hawk defends Gitmo, but man bites dog when McCain supports Gitmo. What is going on among the Republicans just now that McCain would do this?
Most of all, does he believe it?
McCain is the real story here. Dog bites man when a neocon hawk defends Gitmo, but man bites dog when McCain supports Gitmo. What is going on among the Republicans just now that McCain would do this?
121
McCain is and always has been a man without the least principle, a political trollop available to whatever political exigency comes along. Don't ever rely on him to have your back because sooner or later he'll put a knife in it.
10
The precedent for McCain's flip-flopping was set in 2000. Before the South Carolina primaries he was all Straight Talk Express. Then Bush Junior whipped the maverick out of him. Lapdogs are the loudest barkers.
7
I'm not trying to be mean but McCain's mind has been slipping for years. He left rational thought behind long ago.
11
It seems to me that the events that happened during a certain administration along with those "offshore" prisons that accompanied them, might look like old news to busy people, but we have not yet heard the last of them because of the nasty precedents they have set for future wartime decisions.
Thoughtful people have already noted the same thing everywhere in the world.
Thoughtful people have already noted the same thing everywhere in the world.
59
It isn't just about precedent when we keep on doing it year after year, defending it all the way, requiring it by law, and our courts going along with that, those who wrote the memos getting on the courts and teaching at law schools.
62
Let's give up the base altogether!
In our cap t'would be a great feather,
Taken by duress,
Needs yielding, no less,
For true friendship a real bellwether!
In our cap t'would be a great feather,
Taken by duress,
Needs yielding, no less,
For true friendship a real bellwether!
28
What!?!?! Give up all that possible luxury condominuium land? The golf courses and the boating and tennis courts( tennis if not law) all reserved for our tired yet tireless CIA and Intelligence agents, and as vacation spots for harried 'generals and spies who need a rest and to get away from all the hard work of defending America and making wars on entire cultures totally alien to them.
Hard work indeed! We already let our agents use the Carolinas as a base of operations and retirement--why not have an "offshore haven" for our politicians and secret agents whose histories are do discolored and questionable that no where in the USA is safe enough for them and none are safe enough to travel anywhere but to Saudi Arabia or Israel. Cuba seems to be ready to serve nicely. And now a local national government with no interest in washing our dirty laundry as they have so much of their own to hide. Highly trained MDs and other technical staff can fill in at US facilities for a pittance in comparison to costs at in even the cheapest of our "Right To Work" states.
This is every military man's dream come true-to retire to luxury they won't have to really pay for--the taxpayers of Cuba and America will keep picking up the tab , all in the name of protecting the "Homeland".
Hard work indeed! We already let our agents use the Carolinas as a base of operations and retirement--why not have an "offshore haven" for our politicians and secret agents whose histories are do discolored and questionable that no where in the USA is safe enough for them and none are safe enough to travel anywhere but to Saudi Arabia or Israel. Cuba seems to be ready to serve nicely. And now a local national government with no interest in washing our dirty laundry as they have so much of their own to hide. Highly trained MDs and other technical staff can fill in at US facilities for a pittance in comparison to costs at in even the cheapest of our "Right To Work" states.
This is every military man's dream come true-to retire to luxury they won't have to really pay for--the taxpayers of Cuba and America will keep picking up the tab , all in the name of protecting the "Homeland".
5