Christopher Hitchens was right: religion poisons everything.
23
Bibi Netanyahu did a disservice to Jews everywhere by grandstanding his way into Paris and returning home with all the victims of the supermarket slaying. First, how much consideration was given to whether some of the victims might have thought of themselves as French Jews, not as Israelis? Yet given the world spotlight and Netanyahu's presence, would it have been realistic to expect that any of the families could make a calm decision about this matter? But worse, Netanyahu in a way validated the assassin's world view, that Jews and Israeli government supporters are the same thing. As an American-born Jew who supports the existence of Israel but is appalled by its current government's policies, I object deeply to having a politician steamroller the nuances in not only perhaps those Jewish victims' views but by extension in those of Jews everywhere.
The press coverage of this incident, though, is also troubling: almost every outlet I've seen, from the NY Times to the BBC and others, illustrates the story with a picture of a Hasid walking in Paris. We Jews are not all Hasidim. In fact, that's true of most of us. It's both ironic and deeply saddening that the upshot of the Charlie Hebdo and supermarket tragedies will be more stereotyping of the victims no less than of the perpetrators.
The press coverage of this incident, though, is also troubling: almost every outlet I've seen, from the NY Times to the BBC and others, illustrates the story with a picture of a Hasid walking in Paris. We Jews are not all Hasidim. In fact, that's true of most of us. It's both ironic and deeply saddening that the upshot of the Charlie Hebdo and supermarket tragedies will be more stereotyping of the victims no less than of the perpetrators.
37
It would be naive to deny that antisemitism exists in France, as I would be naive to deny that antisemitism exists anywhere in the world .
Contrary to what another poster wrote however, the Dreyfus Affair in no way represents"persecution of the Jews in France long before Hitler" . It was the persecution of one particular Jew by a cabal of senior military officers and politicians - an awful event in itself and one that did inflame antisemitism in the conservative, largely Catholic French upper class at the time, but not one that resulted in anything close to persecution of Jews as a whole. And, of course, Dreyfus was rehabilitated, reinstated and promoted in the military .
This is not to make light of the enormous suffering to which he and his family were subjected, simply to point out the dangerous hyperbole conflating this tragic event with Nazism and current day terrorism .
The call from Bibi Netanyahu for Jews to emigrate if they feel unsafe in France , on the other hand, does nothing but increase the risk of antisemitism . It provides fodder to those bigots who have always maintained that Jews owe more allegiance to their jewishness than to the nations of which they are citizens, and thereby attempt to "justify" their antisemitism . Saying to French Jews that Israel is their home is to say that France is not . Fortunately, most French Jews will see this as what it is : posturing by an accomplished demagogue shamelessly taking advantage of a crisis .
Contrary to what another poster wrote however, the Dreyfus Affair in no way represents"persecution of the Jews in France long before Hitler" . It was the persecution of one particular Jew by a cabal of senior military officers and politicians - an awful event in itself and one that did inflame antisemitism in the conservative, largely Catholic French upper class at the time, but not one that resulted in anything close to persecution of Jews as a whole. And, of course, Dreyfus was rehabilitated, reinstated and promoted in the military .
This is not to make light of the enormous suffering to which he and his family were subjected, simply to point out the dangerous hyperbole conflating this tragic event with Nazism and current day terrorism .
The call from Bibi Netanyahu for Jews to emigrate if they feel unsafe in France , on the other hand, does nothing but increase the risk of antisemitism . It provides fodder to those bigots who have always maintained that Jews owe more allegiance to their jewishness than to the nations of which they are citizens, and thereby attempt to "justify" their antisemitism . Saying to French Jews that Israel is their home is to say that France is not . Fortunately, most French Jews will see this as what it is : posturing by an accomplished demagogue shamelessly taking advantage of a crisis .
15
In response to Stephanie and Jacques I would like to point out that while there are only half a million Jews in France currently. There were less than 200,000 after WWII. 235,000 Jews came to France from North Africa between1956 and 1967. That is the source of the majority of French Jews today. My comment about "very few" takes in view the fact that the Jewish population in the United States in comparison to France has seen great growth in the twentieth century, although still a very small minority.
3
Netanyahu’s offer for Jews to come to Israel is intended to justify his plans for further isolating Palestinians. This doesn’t create a long term humane solution for anyone; it only exacerbates the current tensions in the Middle East. We need to continue to move towards more humane and inclusive solutions. Despite what some people say, it is possible and necessary to achieve peace in the Middle East.
10
What does the migration of large numbers of Jews from France to Israel mean for the Palestinians living in the West Bank and East Jerusalem? Or does anyone care?
10
I wonder if French Prime Minister Valls could find it within himself to also say, "France without Muslims is not France." Somehow, given the racism and xenophobia against Muslims displayed in France, and indeed throughout Europe, I have my doubts.
6
Like many Americans who have followed the recent events in France, I am very concerned that the Fifth Republic is incapable of responding to the nation's deepening economic, political, and social crises. In spite of Hollande's declaration that "our best weapon is unity", French politicians - and the French people - appear as divided as ever. Look at the growing number of unemployed young men who have failed to realize economic gains and who listen, instead, to the siren calls of jihadists. Look also at Mdm. Le Pen's growing class of "real French" republicans who are rallying to the FN with cries of anti-Muslim hate (they previously spewed anti-Jewish rhetoric). And then there is the loathsome Mr. Netanyahu who embarrasses himself (and angers his hosts) by urging French Jews to migrate to Israel where they will almost certainly live on occupied territory.
On a day that was intended to portray national unity, the ingredients for a new kind of French tragedy were on stark display. What a pity. My heart bleeds for France and for the ideals of its foundation (liberty, equality, and fraternity). Vive la France.
On a day that was intended to portray national unity, the ingredients for a new kind of French tragedy were on stark display. What a pity. My heart bleeds for France and for the ideals of its foundation (liberty, equality, and fraternity). Vive la France.
5
Personally, I'd like to thank all the Christians responders to this article for their comments. In the end we are all brothers and sisters under one G-d.
4
Do we still have the chance to try it out anyway?
I have a feeling that this Jew issue in France is misunderstood. I doubt that secular Jews, such as I am, would have any problems in France. This is different from other European countries in the former Soviet block, where secular Jews were (and perhaps still are) hated as much as the religious ones.
4
Let's remember that Lassana Bathily, a Muslim employee at the Hyper Cacher kosher supermarket in Vincennes, saved many Jewish customers from death...and let's also remember Ahmed Merabet, the 40-year-old Muslim police officer who died trying to stop the Charlie Hebdo killings.
So in their honor, let's also say that France without Muslims is not France.
So in their honor, let's also say that France without Muslims is not France.
20
Bibi said to the French Jews, 'Israel is better for you' and Holland said 'France needs you' . Looks to me that Holland is not really thinking of the Jews' welfare.
2
For thousands of years, Jews have observed the transition from non-violent antisemitism to violent antisemitism. Antisemitism normally if government or theocratically (religiously) sponsored progresses from words from the lay or clergy leaders to eventual citizen control and violence, pogroms, death and annihilation.
This was true with the Romans in the 1st century, the Catholic Spaniards in the second century, and the Russians, Polish and Arab nations of the 19th century and of course the Arab nations, Germans and their European Allies of the 20th century. It's no surprise that after several decades of soft or vocal antisemitism in the Muslim and Arab and Islamic world that the peoples of these nations and nation states have finally taken to arms against their local Jews. History teaches us this is the progresssion. Watch any TV show or read any elementary school textbook in any Islamic State and you'll discover antisemitism. Listen to the Prime Minister of Turkey and the Mayor of Ankara yesterday and you'll witness non violent antisemitism.
History teaches us this will and has progressed to violent antisemitism, death and annihilation of local Jewish populations. For French, British, Belgian and other Jewish communities their only choice is to emigrate to the Jewish State which thus far has fended off daily non violent and frequent violent antisemitic attacks by it's neighbors and others Islamists in the world.
This was true with the Romans in the 1st century, the Catholic Spaniards in the second century, and the Russians, Polish and Arab nations of the 19th century and of course the Arab nations, Germans and their European Allies of the 20th century. It's no surprise that after several decades of soft or vocal antisemitism in the Muslim and Arab and Islamic world that the peoples of these nations and nation states have finally taken to arms against their local Jews. History teaches us this is the progresssion. Watch any TV show or read any elementary school textbook in any Islamic State and you'll discover antisemitism. Listen to the Prime Minister of Turkey and the Mayor of Ankara yesterday and you'll witness non violent antisemitism.
History teaches us this will and has progressed to violent antisemitism, death and annihilation of local Jewish populations. For French, British, Belgian and other Jewish communities their only choice is to emigrate to the Jewish State which thus far has fended off daily non violent and frequent violent antisemitic attacks by it's neighbors and others Islamists in the world.
14
Only US news sources will claim that Jews are either not welcome in France or that they should leave. It's a shame that you are creating hysteria where none should be. Do you think that more Jews have died France because of Islamic terrorists than French non-Jews who have fought the same terrorists in Iraq, Afghanistan and Mali? Stop trying to make everything an anti Semitic issue.
4
Pretty strange, as pointed out in comments to the original article, that the talk has shifted to emigration of Jews from France. No evidence thus far that this is happening or is an important issue in the Hebdo attack. A more relevant question is if many non-extremist Muslims feel that Hebdo is not actually an equal opportunity provocateur. Do the cartoons and the recent massive demonstrations of support for press freedom (maybe even the head scarf battles) involve a substantial anti-immigrant component?
2
The choice of targets: A grocery store (because he was stopped by a cop on the way to his intended target and had to go with plan B). A newspaper office. ANY Fool can walk into a grocery store and shoot people. Al Qaeda cannot project power against anything but the softest of targets. The probability of a successful terrorist attack in Europe and the US has shrunk, but we still live like we want to live. The second part is by far the most important. They lost. But the "why did he do it?" stories give these folks 12 column inches of text-driven martyrdom video with an international audience. Maybe we could consider this strategy: make sure all the candidates for suicide attacks will know three things: 1) It won't work. 2) You will be dead. 3) We will not print your name and we won't even tell your own mother what happened. Good luck recruiting after that.
12
Are there public schools in France where Muslim, Jewish and Christian children are taught together and mix?
I went to public elementary school in Elizabeth, NJ from 1954 (kindergarten) through 1961 (sixth grade). We were a mix of Protestant, Catholic and Jewish children. We had morning prayers, typically Old Testament Psalms. We had Easter and Christmas pageants and Hanukah festivals celebrations. We all participated in all of these festivities. We all sang Christmas Carols, and Hanukah songs.
I don't remember any adult, any teacher, any parent, lecturing us specifically about why we did what we did in school. But simply by being with each other, by participating in each other's holidays, we learned we were more alike than different.
I don't think a single one of us who were children in that school ever converted from one religion to another. I'd like to think that none of us felt that we had to. We knew how to get along. We knew that it mattered. We liked it.
Many of us simultaneously attended religious schools at our Churches and Synagogues. But we learned The Golden Rule, how to practice it, how to live it, at our public school.
It was the most valuable religious lesson I've ever received.
I went to public elementary school in Elizabeth, NJ from 1954 (kindergarten) through 1961 (sixth grade). We were a mix of Protestant, Catholic and Jewish children. We had morning prayers, typically Old Testament Psalms. We had Easter and Christmas pageants and Hanukah festivals celebrations. We all participated in all of these festivities. We all sang Christmas Carols, and Hanukah songs.
I don't remember any adult, any teacher, any parent, lecturing us specifically about why we did what we did in school. But simply by being with each other, by participating in each other's holidays, we learned we were more alike than different.
I don't think a single one of us who were children in that school ever converted from one religion to another. I'd like to think that none of us felt that we had to. We knew how to get along. We knew that it mattered. We liked it.
Many of us simultaneously attended religious schools at our Churches and Synagogues. But we learned The Golden Rule, how to practice it, how to live it, at our public school.
It was the most valuable religious lesson I've ever received.
13
Given an absence of multiple, reliable third party investigation, the basis of this sentiment may rest on a false premise--and a false fear. Moreover, any prejudice (including that incited through the press) against one is usually the basis of a larger creeping prejudice against all (cf, Trinity College study on discrimination). Paris, led by US, UK, SA and IL intelligence, has turned the city into a garrison police state, under effective martial law. All French citizens, and visitors, are equally at risk; none enjoy a special claim to suffering; all are subject to the most insidious of discriminations: ideological. The Khazars and Ashkenazi, among others, appear most at risk by their own radicalized sect and cells, which is reportedly undermining their larger cultural heritage. That is perhaps the central cost of radical extremism: it will willingly take its own for a cause, for revenge, for reclamation, for grievance, for soil. The most prominent, immediate threat to this class and others is otherwise right in front of them, on the streets, as it was decades ago.
1
I think Claude Lanzmann says it best. "Let us not give Hitler this posthumous victory." The 7,000 Jews who left France recently, for many different reasons not all out of fear, represent a tiny percent of the 500,000 who remain. They, like the millions of Jews who live in the United States, Canada, England, Spain and dozens of other countries in the diaspora, are doing quite well. If they need special protection, and not all do, they should turn to their own governments and not flee to Israel.
9
The comparison that should be made is not the percentage of Jews that have left France vs. the total number of Jews, but the relative increase in the number of Jews leaving France each year. A since that number, in just the past two years alone has doubled to 7000 in 2014, yes France has a problem. But no one, outside Jewish circles, would be talking about it, let alone doing anything about it were it not for the fact that the murder of Jews at the Kosher supermarket occurred, in essence, at the same time as the Charlie Hedbo murders.
8
Oh, the French don't like anybody. So, of all the attributes of French culture for newer immigrants to emulate, that is first?
1
Ironic for the NYTimes, whose obsession with Israel is so demented that in the wake of the murder of the four French Jews it ran an op-ed piece by a young Israeli criticizing Israel, to rally against anti-Semtism. i would suggest the high minded editors of the Times look within themselves and see where anti-Zionist bias contributes to the growing anti-Semitism.
23
Netanyahu and Israel ultra right wing government do not understand that whatever Israel (IDF, IAF) do in West Bank and Gaza is reflecting to the Jews in other countries of the world and lately even in the USA. Time has past when picture and stories of IDF and IAF atrocities in the West Bank and the Gaza were seldom available. Israel censure of them is useless in present time of internet, satellite telephones, social network etc. Worlds TV, Radios and newspapers are flooded with them everywhere in the world and anti-Semitism is rapidly rising. Jews are now nowhere in the world welcome or save and very soon, only safe place for them will be Israel, some type of Jews Ghetto State, permanently surrounded by enemies and in no war no peace situation. So, that is a reason why Jews of France are reluctantly considering aliyah to Israel.
6
Xenophobia of all types is on the rise in the US and, I suspect, worldwide. I attribute this to a stagnating economy, rising segregation and similar developments. There have always been ethnic and religious slights. During «good» times (mostly, while things are getting better), they seldom amounted to much. It is when times are not so good or are getting worse that the jokes lose their humor, that things get ugly. And things have been getting worse for a good few years.
I went to college during the good years of the 1950’s. I remember Jewish guys telling me, at least a dozen times, when I was dressed up to go to church on Easter, “Hey, didn’t you know? Easter has been canceled. They found the body!” I laughed at first, then just rolled my eyes after the umpteenth time. (What the heck, these students were mostly New Yorkers.) I made my share of jokes, too. Good times.
My wife is Hispanic, of a swarthy persuasion. We’ve heard many jokes over the years. These days the jokes have lost their humor. People are self-segregating again.
No more do we mention that our son had won a full scholarship to get a PhD in a famous university in the East. A fellow parishioner in our famously liberal church commented, “I think maybe I should have married a minority, it would have saved a lot of money.”
America would not be American without Hispanics. Or without Jews, Asians, Slavs, Native Americans… or Anglo-Saxons. Pass the French Fries — the Freedom Fries are all gone.
I went to college during the good years of the 1950’s. I remember Jewish guys telling me, at least a dozen times, when I was dressed up to go to church on Easter, “Hey, didn’t you know? Easter has been canceled. They found the body!” I laughed at first, then just rolled my eyes after the umpteenth time. (What the heck, these students were mostly New Yorkers.) I made my share of jokes, too. Good times.
My wife is Hispanic, of a swarthy persuasion. We’ve heard many jokes over the years. These days the jokes have lost their humor. People are self-segregating again.
No more do we mention that our son had won a full scholarship to get a PhD in a famous university in the East. A fellow parishioner in our famously liberal church commented, “I think maybe I should have married a minority, it would have saved a lot of money.”
America would not be American without Hispanics. Or without Jews, Asians, Slavs, Native Americans… or Anglo-Saxons. Pass the French Fries — the Freedom Fries are all gone.
23
How is it possible that we are exhorted not to blame all Muslims for the behavior of a few radicalized fundamentalists — even told by some that they are "not real Muslims" — yet all Jews, including Jews in France, are to be held responsible for the behavior of Israel? The fact that this inconsistency persists and is repeatedly rationalized demonstrates the perversity of anti-Semitic thinking at its core. Either one believes in such prejudice or one does not, but to claim that one does not except in the case of Jews is so obviously anti-Semitic it boggles the mind. What happens in Israel is simply NEVER an adequate justification for attacks on Jews. Period. Just as what criminals do in the name of Islam is not a justification for attacks on Muslims. Period. The fact that Israel's actions are successfully used as a reason for violence and discrimination requires the soul searching on the part of those who warn the world of the dangers of anti-Islamic rhetoric. Radicalized fundamentalist Muslims have killed more of their own than Israel's military actions. Shouldn't that be an outrage? Whose responsibility it that? So let's be clear, while it's true that we should not take revenge on all of Islam for the actions of a few, pointing a finger at Jews is simply using terrorist activity as a pretext for the expression of anti-Semitism.
18
Is that a funny hat, and would a turban be any worse? Why would one wear such an unfashionable hat unless one were trying very hard to be different?
4
The Times has no right to tell anyone where or where not to live. How about if some folks from the editorial board move to France and then walk around wearing a Jewish skull cap in a Muslim community and then write a nice story telling us of their wonderful multi-cultural experience?
11
Per chance, this fresh wave of anti-Semitism in Europe is being fueled by votes in the British, French and European Parliaments in the last quarter of 2014 to recognize the state of Palestine? It’s quite likely that radical Muslims view this as a zero sum game, as they see the Palestinian cause gaining sympathy in Europe, it must mean to them that the Jewish state is simultaneously losing it?
So if French Prime Minister Manuel Valls really means, “France without Jews is not France,” he might want to back that up with a statement of support for Israel as well. In fact, Western European leaders must respond to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s clarion call, “Israel is your home,” asking French Jews to return, with a call of their own, “Europe is your home, too, please stay.”
So if French Prime Minister Manuel Valls really means, “France without Jews is not France,” he might want to back that up with a statement of support for Israel as well. In fact, Western European leaders must respond to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s clarion call, “Israel is your home,” asking French Jews to return, with a call of their own, “Europe is your home, too, please stay.”
9
I guess that everyone has forgotten what real wars are like. In past wars heavy cruisers and aircraft carriers went down with all hands, and tens of thousands of men died on the day of battle. Today we have some self styled warlord with an attitude take credit for killing a room full of cartoonists, and we all wet our pants and rail against Muslims for scaring us half to death. What is wrong with us?
Clearly we have no war on terror in progress, and the idea of such a conflict attaining the stage of a war is preposterous. We are being deceived by propagandists in the employ of governments which seek a license to steal other people resources, but first they need our approval. They tell us to be very afraid,and we comply.
Then invasion, drone attacks and years of occupation become all good in the plutocrats pursuit of treasure in the lands of oil. That it is unfortunate Muslims who inhabit the arch of conflict should be seen as besides the point if we could be rational for a moment.
I'll bet that most Muslims wish that American Indians had all of the oil, and that we could return to the bad old days days when the only good Indian would again be a dead Indian.
Clearly we have no war on terror in progress, and the idea of such a conflict attaining the stage of a war is preposterous. We are being deceived by propagandists in the employ of governments which seek a license to steal other people resources, but first they need our approval. They tell us to be very afraid,and we comply.
Then invasion, drone attacks and years of occupation become all good in the plutocrats pursuit of treasure in the lands of oil. That it is unfortunate Muslims who inhabit the arch of conflict should be seen as besides the point if we could be rational for a moment.
I'll bet that most Muslims wish that American Indians had all of the oil, and that we could return to the bad old days days when the only good Indian would again be a dead Indian.
2
I find the photo chosen to depict French Jews stereotypical of fascist propaganda. Ultra Orthodox Jews are a minority of Jews. Even in Israel, the nation state of the Jewish people ultra orthodox account for @ 10% of the population.
Perhaps you could have chosen Melanie Laurent who played Shoshana in "Inglorious Bastards" as representative of French Jews who is just a beautiful French woman who is also Jewish.
Perhaps you could have chosen Melanie Laurent who played Shoshana in "Inglorious Bastards" as representative of French Jews who is just a beautiful French woman who is also Jewish.
7
Isn't there something sinister about this claim by the Editorial Board: An exodus of Jews would suit last week’s attackers just fine. Can they believe that the Jihadists want Jews to emigrate to Israel and reinforce Israel's strength? I think not
2
I was Jewish before there was a state of Israel, and, although I wish Israel well as a strong democracy in the middle east, it is not--contrary to Mr. Netanyahu's unnecessarily provocative statement--my home. My home is here in the US. America without Jews would not be America. And as this Editorial wisely affirms, France without Jews would not be France.
18
The New York Times has covered anti-Semitism in France well. This illness must be cured by the France, cured immediately in any overt form and cured gradually in the attitudes of those who are prejudiced.
1
In an excess of even-handedness, the Times misses some important distinctions. Jews in France are abused not only by Muslim anti-semites, but also by neo-Nazi anti-semites, unregenerate Christian anti-semites, and Israel-hating leftist anti-semites. Per capita, French Jews are victimized by anti-Semites twenty times more often than French Muslims are by Islamaphobes. Hatred of Jews, often thinly disguised as obsessive hatred of Israel, is routinely tolerated by the French. It is not heroism, but foolishness, for Jews to entrust their lives to such an untrustworthy society - again!
67
I absolutely agree with you. I'm mystified how your salient truth is blithely ignored by such a huge proportion of organizational or individual philosophers, for want of a better term, whose widely exhorted opinions inform the thoughts of countless people who may, or may not, think at all.
5
This is not the Third Reich's occupation of France under the Nazis. Jews in France should know that.
It is rather lone wolf fanatics who threatens their lives and ours and not state sponsored terrorism that threatens it.
It is rather lone wolf fanatics who threatens their lives and ours and not state sponsored terrorism that threatens it.
5
in response to Hendrik E. Sadi
Should one remain in a place on doesn't feel safe even if it is not the state that is attacking them? Would you?
Should one remain in a place on doesn't feel safe even if it is not the state that is attacking them? Would you?
4
Holland made a strategic blunder by inviting Abbas to this rally. Abbas is a terrorist.
17
The great European cities that lost their Jews in the Holocaust also lost the dynamism that made them great.
Berlin, Vienna, Prague, Krakow are now soulless shells of prosperity, mere tourist attractions rather than centers of creativity.
Let us hope that Paris does not lose the Jews!
Berlin, Vienna, Prague, Krakow are now soulless shells of prosperity, mere tourist attractions rather than centers of creativity.
Let us hope that Paris does not lose the Jews!
17
In addition to (or in conjunction with) the vile and murderous attack at Charlie Hebdo, which targeted the Western value of free speech/press, these terrorists specifically targeted a kosher supermarket on the eve of the Jewish sabbath. The purpose of the supermarket attack was to kill Jews. Period. Many comments here that try to pretend this is not the case, or twist the facts to further their own political bias. So it bears repeating. A man walked into a kosher supermarket on the eve of the Jewish sabbath and began firing his gun. His purpose was to kill Jews. There is no way to pretend that this did not happen, or that it is not relevant.
23
In actuality, no country in the world is the same without some diverse population, which introduces an alternative view of life and causes people living there to understand that they are just part of a larger universe. Without exposure to other customs and ways of life, individuals have too narrow a view of issues and fear and mistrust follows. It is not healthy for the Jewish population, or for that matter any like minded group, to isolate themselves from the rest of society, where they cannot observe or be observed carrying out their lives. This is true not only in whole countries which are non-diverse, but in communities where like minded individuals cluster themselves and choose to keep their children "safe" from outside influences. The only way for us to truly get along is to learn from our differences and discover our similarities and if our beliefs are truly worth keeping, know that these other factors out there won't change our minds. If they do, perhaps they should have been challenged.
6
The United States should open its doors to any European Jews who would like to come here. Why should Israel have first dibs on highly educated, skilled immigrants. We need them just as badly.
24
One might in fact argue that no ostensibly Christian or Muslim nation without Jews is truly either Christian or Muslim. The expulsion by decree or terror of Jews wherever it has taken place has left the home country diminished and may even be seen to have thrown out of balance the entire community of nations. Where it has inevitably occurred is in nations undergoing a crisis of confidence whether in fifteenth century Spain or twentieth century Germany or the post-colonial Muslim world stretching from North Africa to Asia. Our cultures are deeply intertwined; severing those ties inevitably leads to tragedy.
11
Why has this latest episode in the chapter of global terrorism suddenly turned into a story of Jewish persecution?
8
Because Jews were specifically targeted and 4 were murdered.
6
world leaders of nations and local Islamic leadership must work together to confront the challenges of radicalism - without that unified front - no one will be safe
this is a war - as yet undeclared from the victims' side- that we must pursue wight her vigor, planning, and determination of anyo= other world threat
until then - we will all continue to lose
this is a war - as yet undeclared from the victims' side- that we must pursue wight her vigor, planning, and determination of anyo= other world threat
until then - we will all continue to lose
2
Evident by the struggle humans have with their fellow man, it’s obvious that the quality of life matters greatly to the individual whose life it is and to a lesser extent to others. Ignorance, with all of its byproducts creates division (religion) and blinds our vision. Once we open our eyes to the truth we will see that there is no separation between any of us. Our purpose for living on Planet Ignoramus is to awaken to this reality. Hate and warfare can only end when we acknowledge that we are but one life and one love. Unfortunately, there will be no end to our suffering until we realize this one truth.
3
Amazing.
In 2015 why are we (humanity) still dealing with this nonsense (the inability of people to be tolerant of each other and accepting of freedom of- and from- religion)?
Why are the politics of the Middle East convulsing one of the oldest First World Democracies? Why have refugees and migrants or their progeny not learned and adapted to the concepts essential to a peaceful multi-cultural secular democracy?
In 2015 why are we (humanity) still dealing with this nonsense (the inability of people to be tolerant of each other and accepting of freedom of- and from- religion)?
Why are the politics of the Middle East convulsing one of the oldest First World Democracies? Why have refugees and migrants or their progeny not learned and adapted to the concepts essential to a peaceful multi-cultural secular democracy?
4
In spite of their meager 1-2 % of the French population, Jewish contribution to culture, art, music, science, medicine, literature, Nobel Prizes, politics, outweigh their numbers.
15
It would have been more appropriate to have written your editorial on Jodi Rudoren's article on page 4, "Newspaper In Israel Scrubs Women From A Photo Of Paris Unity Rally", where all females were electronically deleted so that the Orthodox men in Israel would not have to look at their hideous faces and realize that in the rest of the world that women actually dare to exist without their permission and live lives outside of the Israeli men's dictates.
You've missed the point of "Charlie". "Charlie" would have had great fun with the scrubbing, naming it Israel's version of the burqa, or dumping Eve from Eden, scrubbing Lady Liberty from leading the military hordes behind her. The Statue of Liberty would would be a torch hanging miraculously in the air, supported by nothing.
"Charlie" despised religious misogyny. It was no friend of either the Taliban or the Uber-Orthodox. And you are no friend of "Charlie" to ignore such creepy acts. Speak out against such acts. Photo scrubbing was a hallmark of the Third Reich. It has never had a place in this world. Ever.
You've missed the point of "Charlie". "Charlie" would have had great fun with the scrubbing, naming it Israel's version of the burqa, or dumping Eve from Eden, scrubbing Lady Liberty from leading the military hordes behind her. The Statue of Liberty would would be a torch hanging miraculously in the air, supported by nothing.
"Charlie" despised religious misogyny. It was no friend of either the Taliban or the Uber-Orthodox. And you are no friend of "Charlie" to ignore such creepy acts. Speak out against such acts. Photo scrubbing was a hallmark of the Third Reich. It has never had a place in this world. Ever.
9
In response to Rosa
Newspaper, singular, may be a newspaper that is explicitly for the Uber-Orthodox Jewish population and has a right to follow its policies in this matter, just as Orthodox Muslim, Religious Catholic and Extreme Evangelical newspapers follow their beliefs when they publish. In fact, just as Charlie Hebdo has a right to publish its satirical drawings of Jesus, Mohammed, etc. because that is its policy and it isn't breaking the law. To point out one such newspaper as representative of all is cherry-picking.
Newspaper, singular, may be a newspaper that is explicitly for the Uber-Orthodox Jewish population and has a right to follow its policies in this matter, just as Orthodox Muslim, Religious Catholic and Extreme Evangelical newspapers follow their beliefs when they publish. In fact, just as Charlie Hebdo has a right to publish its satirical drawings of Jesus, Mohammed, etc. because that is its policy and it isn't breaking the law. To point out one such newspaper as representative of all is cherry-picking.
6
What is never mentioned in recent editorials following the massacres at Charlie Hebdo and Hyper Cacher is the economic malaise gripping European countries since the Great Recession which has divided Eurpoean and Immigrant citizens into a widening gap of haves and have-nots. These attacks were out of the old and classic tactic used by Stalisnists "to sharpen the contradictions" about what was once termed the "Jewish question," a ghost beginning in the 1930s that still haunts the collective consciousness in Europe since the Holocaust, which grew during the economic malaise of the Great Depression. European leaders, especially the financial elites particularly in Germany, must now also address and reform their draconian policy of austerity which has contributed a great deal of fear along with the issue of growing anti-Semitism. Anti-Semitism is symptomic of an economic crisis in Europe. If there were a more robust economy in the EU, this issue of anti-Semitism would be drastically reduced. It is mote than just a consequences that in recent opinion polls, the highest rate of anti-Semitism registers one in Greece which is going through such what can only be called a Great Depression. So while I applaud how citizens and leaders have demonstrated their solidarity and resolve for Jewish citizens in France, they will have to get down to the hard job of providing economic growth for all citizens across Europe. Austerity has breed a climate of fear.
5
This editorial is sober and totally factually accurate. But when I read the commentaries I must say I find some of them unfair, offensive or racist. The New York Times accused of being anti-Semitic or anti-Israel: it boggles the mind. Then some virulent anti-Muslim remarks (not against the murderers or their vision of Islam but against a whole group of people). There is even a genocidal comment as if the Holocaust were not relevant for all groups.
Let me just say that the guy who rescued 15 customers in the kosher supermarket in Paris was a Muslim from Mali. Good decent people in every community and bastards or evil ones in all groups too.
Check this Haaretz link:
http://www.haaretz.com/news/world/1.636361?utm_source=Facebook&utm_c...
Let me just say that the guy who rescued 15 customers in the kosher supermarket in Paris was a Muslim from Mali. Good decent people in every community and bastards or evil ones in all groups too.
Check this Haaretz link:
http://www.haaretz.com/news/world/1.636361?utm_source=Facebook&utm_c...
14
It is very simple: Have Jews invaded and destroyed a church, a mosque, any business because they are not Jewish? What would the coverage be if there was only the attack at the kosher supermarket? Same as the other coverage of antisemitism acts across France and Europe. We do go a long way to rationalizate antisemitism.
32
The dirty little secret in Europe is that anti-Semitism there has been growing unchecked for decades, at least since Germany imported tens of thousands of Turks to work in its automobile plants in the 1960s and 1970s when German cars were in big demand. Other countries, including France and the Scandinavian countries followed suit. The U.K. was tied to South Asia and its Muslims by its colonial empire and so it, too, saw a flood of immigrants. The growing imbalance of Muslims to non-Muslims in these western countries became a petri dish for anti-Semitism. How to undo decades of shortsighted policies is the big question today. The opportunity for someone to step forward to lead a "reformation" of Islam, the perversion of which fuels the mayhem, is present. As in all other traditional religious reformations, the impetus for this must come from within and be driven by a leader that others will follow.
18
There is no physical place where one can be safely sheltered from hatred. The world has become highly sensitized to the persecution of Jews since seeing what can happen when persecution is the stated goal of a madman. "Never again" has been globally absorbed, if you accept that it means on a grand scale with political approval. This should not be conflated with the intent to destroy Israel, the hostile engagement around which produces Jewish casualties in considerable numbers. In France, there is an effort to protect, now; apparently they too absorbed the lesson of "never again". So, to run to Israel would strengthen identity, perhaps, and give Bibi the fear he needs to propel his career, and his message to adopt a bunker mentality, but that doesn't gurantee saved lives, and indeed would plunge the new immigrants into what looks to be a life of perpetual warfare. I saw where thoughtful American Jews have posted on this newspapers' blogs, that Israel's behavior has an affect on all world Jewry, and I think this is true; so to assume that it is categorically a safe place to live might very well be wrong. Be strong, accept that we are all unsafe in different ways, and realize that the rest of us have our own demons to guard against too.
19
Jews are, and absolutely should be, grateful that Israel exists as a haven for them. Perhaps French Jews would be better off there than in France. That's a choice individual French Jews will obviously have to make for themselves. However, like all countries, including most certainly the US, Israel gets some things wrong. Yet reading some of the comments here, one has the impression that to criticize any aspect of Israeli policy makes one ipso facto an "extreme leftist, intellectual elitist", either anti-Semite or self-hater.
What a triumph for the settlers, to know that much of the readership of the NY Times thinks that their actions of dispossessing Palestinian farmers, are beyond criticism, because any such criticism puts the critic in league with Coulibahy or Dieudonne.
What a triumph for the settlers, to know that much of the readership of the NY Times thinks that their actions of dispossessing Palestinian farmers, are beyond criticism, because any such criticism puts the critic in league with Coulibahy or Dieudonne.
7
And so where can the French gentiles go?
5
Hatred and prejudism starts with the Jews but it never ends there.
"They came to take away the jews, intellectuals, gays, etc. but I was not one of them so I did not protest/object. Then they came to take me away and there was no one left to object."
Not the proper quote exactly, but you get what I mean.
"They came to take away the jews, intellectuals, gays, etc. but I was not one of them so I did not protest/object. Then they came to take me away and there was no one left to object."
Not the proper quote exactly, but you get what I mean.
10
There is no terrorist threat. President Obama has explained the al Qaeda is decimated and the war on terror is over. Someone just has to tell the terrorists.
9
No non-Muslim person in a France supports Muslim attacks on Jews. Sadly, these attacks go some of the way in explaining the nervousness that French Jews now feel.
The biggest factor underlying anti-Semitism, however, is Government action. The op-ed article shows this by citing past Governments' support of Kristallnacht and the deportation of French Jews during WW2.
Segue to 2014 and, although far less distasteful than the examples quoted, the French National Assembly defies Israel and votes to support statehood for Palestine, home to the terrorist group, Hamas.
You cannot have it both ways.
The biggest factor underlying anti-Semitism, however, is Government action. The op-ed article shows this by citing past Governments' support of Kristallnacht and the deportation of French Jews during WW2.
Segue to 2014 and, although far less distasteful than the examples quoted, the French National Assembly defies Israel and votes to support statehood for Palestine, home to the terrorist group, Hamas.
You cannot have it both ways.
13
The French government has come a very long way since the Dreyfus affair. Good for them.
The Dreyfus affair is when a Jewish officer was convicted of espionage and the conviction stood even after massive evidence was presented that he wasn't guilty. It was one of the events that influenced the Zionist movement early on.
The Dreyfus affair is when a Jewish officer was convicted of espionage and the conviction stood even after massive evidence was presented that he wasn't guilty. It was one of the events that influenced the Zionist movement early on.
9
Those who thought they could catch a late train out often found themselves on an early train to the camps.
Many who have traveled and taken a wrong turn lived to talk about it by withdrawing quickly.
Many who have traveled and taken a wrong turn lived to talk about it by withdrawing quickly.
8
Why don't you get your facts straight and start by using the right words? What I learned is that the Jews and other minorities were deported to German, French, Belgium, Polish, etc. labor/concentration camps; not Nazi camps. You might find the word Nazi more shocking but the historic facts are that the Germans and other European nations committed those atrocities.
You might want to look at the Swedish case too.
And Germany; I decided to move to Malta last year because the situation was getting very difficult.
The whole things happened on a personal basis, you're being singled out and verbally abused, reducing your living space to the point you reach the conclusion that it is safer and better to move out. Who wants to live like a fugitive if one has still other options? European countries made their choice by encouraging Muslim mass immigration I have to live with that, I'm not a violent person so my only choice is to find a place were I can feel safe and protected.
You might want to look at the Swedish case too.
And Germany; I decided to move to Malta last year because the situation was getting very difficult.
The whole things happened on a personal basis, you're being singled out and verbally abused, reducing your living space to the point you reach the conclusion that it is safer and better to move out. Who wants to live like a fugitive if one has still other options? European countries made their choice by encouraging Muslim mass immigration I have to live with that, I'm not a violent person so my only choice is to find a place were I can feel safe and protected.
11
What is France with Muslims as 2nd class citizens discriminated against in every phase of civil secular live that places them at the bottom of the socioeconomic political educational heap as a despised minority?
There are 5.2 million Muslim Frenchmen or about 8% of the population. Most of them originated in former French colonies. Forbidden to freely practice every aspect of their faith. Unable to invoke French hate speech laws in their favor they are in a dire situation. France had Dreyfus and Vichy. France has Le Pen.
What is the world without the 76,000 Syrians, 10,000 Nigerians, 10,000 Iraqis, 3100 Afghans, 2400 Palestinian and 100's Kenyan dead?
Where is the outrage over their deaths? Where are their faces, names, ages, histories and mourners?
If the Charlie Hebdo and grocery store attacks were acts of terrorism what are American, British, French, German and Israeli military actions involving Muslims? What about Boko Haram and Al Shabbab?
There are 5.2 million Muslim Frenchmen or about 8% of the population. Most of them originated in former French colonies. Forbidden to freely practice every aspect of their faith. Unable to invoke French hate speech laws in their favor they are in a dire situation. France had Dreyfus and Vichy. France has Le Pen.
What is the world without the 76,000 Syrians, 10,000 Nigerians, 10,000 Iraqis, 3100 Afghans, 2400 Palestinian and 100's Kenyan dead?
Where is the outrage over their deaths? Where are their faces, names, ages, histories and mourners?
If the Charlie Hebdo and grocery store attacks were acts of terrorism what are American, British, French, German and Israeli military actions involving Muslims? What about Boko Haram and Al Shabbab?
8
Nice try at deflection. This editorial was not about the state of Muslims in France or about all the atrocities occurring in the world, but about the on-going violence against Jews, primarily by Muslims, in France. The next time you or one of your fellow travelers (yes, I know you don't support Israel, to put it nicely) complains when an Israel supporter points to all the horrific events in this world that the discussion revolves around Israel not other places, I take a minute to remind you that you did the same. What's not good for the goose is not good for the gander.
4
To try and compare the situation in modern day Europe to the Greater German Reich in the 1930s is truly ridiculous. Yes, some people assume that all Jews are fervent supporters of Israel and so accost random Jews whenever Netanyahu does something they don't like. There is also the fact that Europeans are far more critical of Israel expanding its borders by "right of conquest" and controlling a kind of subject population in the West Bank and Gaza, than Americans. So Jews in Europe will hear a lot of very harsh criticism of Israeli government behaviour and of anyone who supports that behaviour.
Saying all that, the idea of pogroms, dispossession and death camps is truly beyond the realm of the ridiculous. Who is meant to put this kind of oppression in place? How would France get from 50 acts of vandalism, abuse and violence in a year, to generalised subjugation and violence?
I can't understand how the people making these ridiculous comparisons aren't laughed out of the room. instead we have articles in the NYT no less, pondering their risible maundering.
Saying all that, the idea of pogroms, dispossession and death camps is truly beyond the realm of the ridiculous. Who is meant to put this kind of oppression in place? How would France get from 50 acts of vandalism, abuse and violence in a year, to generalised subjugation and violence?
I can't understand how the people making these ridiculous comparisons aren't laughed out of the room. instead we have articles in the NYT no less, pondering their risible maundering.
32
Violence toward jews in Europe from muslem radicals can easily be read as antisemitism. But I would like to remind that the history and integration of jews in muslem cultures has been far more succesful than in christian cultures .
One of the elephants in the room that is not being discussed is the futureless struggle for muslems in Palestine. It would be more honest and politically fruitfull if the existence and the behaviour of the Jewish State could be discussed. In most European countries and certainly France the jewish organisations support Israel, and in that sense european jews make themselves a part of the Palestine saga. This means that when jews in Europe when attacked by muslems are not attacked as jews in the religeous or racial sense but as a party in the Palestine conflicts. This is not productive and will lead to nothing. But looking away from the Palestine conflict in discussing what is called antisemtism in France is not productive either.
One of the elephants in the room that is not being discussed is the futureless struggle for muslems in Palestine. It would be more honest and politically fruitfull if the existence and the behaviour of the Jewish State could be discussed. In most European countries and certainly France the jewish organisations support Israel, and in that sense european jews make themselves a part of the Palestine saga. This means that when jews in Europe when attacked by muslems are not attacked as jews in the religeous or racial sense but as a party in the Palestine conflicts. This is not productive and will lead to nothing. But looking away from the Palestine conflict in discussing what is called antisemtism in France is not productive either.
18
"It would be more honest and politically fruitfull if the existence and the behaviour of the Jewish State could be discussed."
Are you suggesting the problem is Israel's existence?
Are you suggesting the problem is Israel's existence?
2
Nor is downplaying the continual attempt by Palestinian Arabs to destroy a full sovereign member of the United Nations.
3
Ssupporting a country is not the same thing as supporting all of its policies.
I am a proud Jewish American and political zionist, though I find many aspects of the so called war of terror, and the policies of Likud to be utterly abhorent.
To say that Jewish organizations are part of the Israel-Palestinian conflict is fallacious reasoning at best.
I highly doubt that the average would-be terrorist is really cares about the differences between right wing and left wing Israeli politics.
I am a proud Jewish American and political zionist, though I find many aspects of the so called war of terror, and the policies of Likud to be utterly abhorent.
To say that Jewish organizations are part of the Israel-Palestinian conflict is fallacious reasoning at best.
I highly doubt that the average would-be terrorist is really cares about the differences between right wing and left wing Israeli politics.
2
Thank you for this editorial. With examples like "l'affaire Dreyfus," persecution of Jews in France was significant long before Hitler, and now, Islamic Extremists.
But is the answer to terrorism to force the departure of an entire people? French Jews are Jews, yes, but their contributions to French history and the fabric and culture of France that this would be a huge, huge loss.
An anticipated mass immigration of Jews, as reported in yesterday's NYT, would send the strongest signal yet that the terrorists have won, and that they can actually force diaspora from evil terrorist attacks.
Of course, I'm not a Jew, and don't live in France to face the fear of Islamist terrorism--so my views don'[t matter. But for the world's sake and for France's sake, I hope French Jews stay put, because it's abhorrent for a bunch of religious zealots to have this much power.
But is the answer to terrorism to force the departure of an entire people? French Jews are Jews, yes, but their contributions to French history and the fabric and culture of France that this would be a huge, huge loss.
An anticipated mass immigration of Jews, as reported in yesterday's NYT, would send the strongest signal yet that the terrorists have won, and that they can actually force diaspora from evil terrorist attacks.
Of course, I'm not a Jew, and don't live in France to face the fear of Islamist terrorism--so my views don'[t matter. But for the world's sake and for France's sake, I hope French Jews stay put, because it's abhorrent for a bunch of religious zealots to have this much power.
9
Even if I am agree with your conclusion, allow me not to share your confusion beetwen l Affaire Dreyfus and the actual anti semitism in France.
The Dreyfus case was the result of two factors. First the jewish origin, but that was a problem for only some conservative sectors of the then french society. Remember that Mr Dreyfus was an officer not a single private.
The second point and in my view, the most important for a big majority of the then french population, the man was Alsacian what means more o less German from those German who had annexed the regions of Alsace Lorraine in the Franco Prussian war. At that time, the french were preparing their new generations to retake those regions. What led eventually to the big massacre of WWI and the retake of Alsace Lorraine at a huge price. ( a million and half french soldiers dead )
That antisemitism vanished in the aftermath of WWII and the discovery of Nazi crimes.
The new anti semitism i France is now the fact of muslims frustrated by the power of Israel, its non stop victories against arabic agressions and the fact that the french jews are a totally integrated part of the french society.
BTW I am not jew.
Cheers from Paris.
The Dreyfus case was the result of two factors. First the jewish origin, but that was a problem for only some conservative sectors of the then french society. Remember that Mr Dreyfus was an officer not a single private.
The second point and in my view, the most important for a big majority of the then french population, the man was Alsacian what means more o less German from those German who had annexed the regions of Alsace Lorraine in the Franco Prussian war. At that time, the french were preparing their new generations to retake those regions. What led eventually to the big massacre of WWI and the retake of Alsace Lorraine at a huge price. ( a million and half french soldiers dead )
That antisemitism vanished in the aftermath of WWII and the discovery of Nazi crimes.
The new anti semitism i France is now the fact of muslims frustrated by the power of Israel, its non stop victories against arabic agressions and the fact that the french jews are a totally integrated part of the french society.
BTW I am not jew.
Cheers from Paris.
They were zealots. I doubt if they were religious.
The religious/cultural jingoism demonstrated by all sides of this conflict is nauseating. Its time to put on some John Lennon and give up our dysfunctional, separatist religions until all that's left to define us is the merit we do.
5
Israel is equally the home of Jews, Muslims, Christians, Druze and others.
France is the home of the French, whatever their religion may be.
Ukraine is the home of Ukrainians no matter what language they speak.
And the USA is the home of all religions, races (if there is such a thing as race), languages, and of all those American citizens descended from whatever nation they or their ancestors originated from, as well as all non-citizens who live here.
French Jews should try to stay in France and work things out, but if they feel they have to move live elsewhere, and wish to avoid living in a theocracy whose leader is bent on his nation's self-destruction, then the USA or Canada would be excellent, safe, better places to live, where Jews, Muslims, Christians and people of all religions live together in peace.
France is the home of the French, whatever their religion may be.
Ukraine is the home of Ukrainians no matter what language they speak.
And the USA is the home of all religions, races (if there is such a thing as race), languages, and of all those American citizens descended from whatever nation they or their ancestors originated from, as well as all non-citizens who live here.
French Jews should try to stay in France and work things out, but if they feel they have to move live elsewhere, and wish to avoid living in a theocracy whose leader is bent on his nation's self-destruction, then the USA or Canada would be excellent, safe, better places to live, where Jews, Muslims, Christians and people of all religions live together in peace.
10
We may all live together in peace, but I cannot see where we the various religions actually mix in any way.
The world without religions or ethnicity is not the world, but we have to somehow ease into versions of these attributes that are more accommodating of others.
1
This article mentioned that one quarter of the Jewish population of France was deported to concentration camps during the second world war. That occurred before Muslims were 20 per cent of the French population. And satire aside, France's larger problem is its xenophobia which is completely at odds with the French self-image of "egalitarianism." The history of Jews in Europe has been one characterized by continual persecution; the same enmity still persists, and anyone who thinks the pattern won't repeat is suffering from the same delusions as those in Germany who thought the rise of Nazism was a temporary aberration. It is hard to get up and move, we all understand that. And we can thank God, that at least there is a place for Jews to emigrate to, which in the 1930's there was not. Today, the Prime Minister of Israel opened his arms wide to welcome Jews escaping persecution. My advice is to take him up on the invitation.
13
"Incursion"? Nice; painless; truth obliterating; harmful; decidedly false; choice of words NYT.
RAGE finds its course. Denial does not.
No human community is served by such intentionally exploitive deceit.
Seek journalistic credibility here and stop writing such offensive nonsense.
RAGE finds its course. Denial does not.
No human community is served by such intentionally exploitive deceit.
Seek journalistic credibility here and stop writing such offensive nonsense.
2
I think this is less about the insecurity of the Jewish population in France and more a statement against the immigration of Muslim populations into France.
Let me assure you, France will not be experiencing a Jewish genocide. Nor are there active extremists, and/or political factions that call for the extermination of the Jewish populations. As some commentators have pointed out, France is a modern and liberal state. Serious threats to the Jewish population in France are imagined and heightened, and are unfortunately given validation during these times of tragedy.
The NYTimes is avoiding the white elephant in the room, but instead, as is apparent in this editorial, was misguidedly swayed into the conversation about the insecurity of the Jewish population in France. From conversations such as this one, to the increased security and demonstrations happening in France, the true issue at the core is anti-immigration sentiment. I think France's reaction to the targeted killings reveals deep-rooted and unresolved issues around the changing demographic of France.
I wish the NYTimes would takes us, the readers, down a deeper road toward understanding the cultural divide that is now so clear with the French citizens.
Let me assure you, France will not be experiencing a Jewish genocide. Nor are there active extremists, and/or political factions that call for the extermination of the Jewish populations. As some commentators have pointed out, France is a modern and liberal state. Serious threats to the Jewish population in France are imagined and heightened, and are unfortunately given validation during these times of tragedy.
The NYTimes is avoiding the white elephant in the room, but instead, as is apparent in this editorial, was misguidedly swayed into the conversation about the insecurity of the Jewish population in France. From conversations such as this one, to the increased security and demonstrations happening in France, the true issue at the core is anti-immigration sentiment. I think France's reaction to the targeted killings reveals deep-rooted and unresolved issues around the changing demographic of France.
I wish the NYTimes would takes us, the readers, down a deeper road toward understanding the cultural divide that is now so clear with the French citizens.
53
No, France will not be experiencing genocide, and your point that France urgently needs to deal with its anti-immigrant, factions is well made.
But I strongly object to your implication that a discussion anti-semitism is somehow a veiled anti-Muslim statement.
People complain, justly, when a legitimate critic of Israel is accused of being a Trojan horse for anti-semitism. Wouldn't it be ironic if any article on anti-Jewish hatred-- which, like it or not, clearly exists in France, if not on the scale of previous times--was immediately misconstrued as an attack on Muslims?
But I strongly object to your implication that a discussion anti-semitism is somehow a veiled anti-Muslim statement.
People complain, justly, when a legitimate critic of Israel is accused of being a Trojan horse for anti-semitism. Wouldn't it be ironic if any article on anti-Jewish hatred-- which, like it or not, clearly exists in France, if not on the scale of previous times--was immediately misconstrued as an attack on Muslims?
1
Let's not exaggerate or indulge in hysteria, folks. I have lived in France for many years and have many Jewish friends, some of whom are activists. None of them is considering leaving France due to fears of antisemitism or their own security, indeed their identity as French citizens is rock solid.
The figure bandied about - 7,000 emigrants to Israel, the "most", etc. - is left unexamined, even by the NYT. My impression is that this choice is overwhelmingly made for economic reasons or as a question of personal or religious identity. It represents barely 1% of France's Jewish population.
This is not to assert that antisemitism isn't a problem or isn't worsening, but hysteria is not going to help us cope with the issue. This is not 1939. My kids were raised in France and education about the Holocaust is a priority in history classes. In nearly 20 years here, I have met only a few people I would consider genuine antisemites and they are not socially acceptable in most social circles.
The figure bandied about - 7,000 emigrants to Israel, the "most", etc. - is left unexamined, even by the NYT. My impression is that this choice is overwhelmingly made for economic reasons or as a question of personal or religious identity. It represents barely 1% of France's Jewish population.
This is not to assert that antisemitism isn't a problem or isn't worsening, but hysteria is not going to help us cope with the issue. This is not 1939. My kids were raised in France and education about the Holocaust is a priority in history classes. In nearly 20 years here, I have met only a few people I would consider genuine antisemites and they are not socially acceptable in most social circles.
75
There are nuts everywhere. All kinds who hate all kinds of people. I can't see how you can stop them. Hate speech is already outlawed. Hate acts are outlawed. So what's left?
1
When I graduated from the U of A in the very early 80's with a Bachelor of Education degree, I was forced to do some supply teaching in my city. There had been a severe economic downturn and I was fortunate to have been called out five days a week to fill in for teachers at different public schools. One of the most fulfilling times was when I was called out to the Jewish (sp?) school....what a delight these kids were....ages 5 to around 12 or 13 if my memory doesn't fail me. Each one of these Jewish kids warmed their way into my heart. Security was high even then, as I had to buzz into the school before being admitted.
Jump ahead a few years, I did get a permanent contract with the public system... one day, a favorite Jewish grade 9 male student came to me saying that a Palestinian boy was harassing him..... I took Tarek aside and made it clear to him that there was no room for his behaviour at our school and should he wish, I would be pleased to assist him in finding a new school. Needless to say, the taunts stopped.
I find it horrific what has happened in Paris and the uncertainty of Jewish families living in France. I try to keep informed of developments in Israel and feel for their security there as well.
I might add that I felt alarmed and dismayed that these terrorists had such a string of offences and yet were still allowed to stay in France.
Jump ahead a few years, I did get a permanent contract with the public system... one day, a favorite Jewish grade 9 male student came to me saying that a Palestinian boy was harassing him..... I took Tarek aside and made it clear to him that there was no room for his behaviour at our school and should he wish, I would be pleased to assist him in finding a new school. Needless to say, the taunts stopped.
I find it horrific what has happened in Paris and the uncertainty of Jewish families living in France. I try to keep informed of developments in Israel and feel for their security there as well.
I might add that I felt alarmed and dismayed that these terrorists had such a string of offences and yet were still allowed to stay in France.
13
Anti-semitism has been increasing all over Europe. Nobody seemed to care because anti-semitism is "normal" for most parts of the world, even in areas where there are no Jews and of course here in the US where I see anti-semitism spewing forth in letters to this newspaper. Now added to that is the pretense of being anti-Israel but not actually anti-semitic. At the same time everyone is bending over backwards not to offend Muslims. Politicians caution against being anti-Muslim after a terrorist attack. There is never as much concern about day to day anti-semitism. Nobody cares that some young Muslims, aided and abetted by certain Imams, are the source of the large increase in anti-semitic rhetoric and actions.
Now that France has experienced a terrorist attack they are only putting a bandaid on the problem of anti-semitism not dealing with its root cause. How long can they protect every synagogue, Jewish school and Jewish business? As soon as they tire of protecting the Jews there will be more attacks. At the same time people are going to resent the extra expense of this protection and it will just increase anti-semitism. French Jews have felt unsafe for a long time and now those feelings have increased. They want to live where they feel it is safe to be Jewish which is in Israel.
Now that France has experienced a terrorist attack they are only putting a bandaid on the problem of anti-semitism not dealing with its root cause. How long can they protect every synagogue, Jewish school and Jewish business? As soon as they tire of protecting the Jews there will be more attacks. At the same time people are going to resent the extra expense of this protection and it will just increase anti-semitism. French Jews have felt unsafe for a long time and now those feelings have increased. They want to live where they feel it is safe to be Jewish which is in Israel.
19
How about no more US financial support for Muslim nations that harbor any trace of terrorism or do not speak up - loudly, clearly and internationally - against these jihadist deliverers of death destruction, darkness and more?
17
As I write this comment, it is still January 13th. It was on January 13, 1898 that another French newspaper, L'Auruore, published "J'Accuse", Emil Zola's front-page exposé of the Dreyfus Affair, a conspiracy of anti-Semitism in the French Army and Government.
History does repeat itself.
http://michelinewalker.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/d08_aurore_janv_981.jpg
History does repeat itself.
http://michelinewalker.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/d08_aurore_janv_981.jpg
16
Very noble and lofty sentiments. But in the Muslim areas and suburbs of Paris there are many who blame the Jews (!) for Charlie Hebdo. This will not go away and no amount of speech making or marches will solve these problems.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/01/13/jihad-fanboys-in-the-pa...
Has France reached a tipping point in terms of relations to its Jewish and Muslim citizens? Perhaps. But perhaps it is also too late?
Words can kill and words can calm but they cannot always solve problems. Eventually the soldiers and police will be withdrawn. Then what?
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/01/13/jihad-fanboys-in-the-pa...
Has France reached a tipping point in terms of relations to its Jewish and Muslim citizens? Perhaps. But perhaps it is also too late?
Words can kill and words can calm but they cannot always solve problems. Eventually the soldiers and police will be withdrawn. Then what?
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It's absolute madness to allow any large scale Islamic immigration into a non-Islamic nation. Nothing but heartache lies ahead. The irony here, is that In France, as in the rest of Europe and America, the Jewish population are strong supporters of open borders and third world immigration.
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Supporting Palestinian request for calling Israel wrongly war criminal instead of stating clearly that Hamas is the real war criminal will continue to send a message of support to the antisemitic crimes in France. Personally I have left France 10 years ago because of that.
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In the aftermath of terror attacks in France or a few instances of anti-semitism if the French Jews feel insecure and plan to move to Israel or elsewhere, what would be the reaction of other ethno-national groups? Should they too flee from the host country that kept them safe and prosperous till now? Isn't terrorism a common global threat to be met through united action?
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Professor, you might want to look at the far and very recent history of Jews living in France. Start with the Dreyfus affair and continue through the murder of schoolchildren in Toulouse 2 years ago, the torture and murder of Ilan Halimi, and the recent robbing and rape of a young couple because they were Jews. If you are under the impression that there have been no incidents of daily anti-Semitism in France over the past 20 years, you are ill-informed.
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clearly you know little about attacks against jews in france.
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Jews must be accepted in every Country with full rights of citizenship, free from hatred, discrimination and violence. That is a universal human right that cannot be denied. It applies to every Jewish person in every country. No exceptions.
Does the same hold true for Arab citizens in Israel, Germany and France?
Does the same hold true for Arab citizens in Israel, Germany and France?
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And of course, I'm sure you also meant to ask does it hold true for Arab citizens of Arab countries? You know, the women who are not permitted to drive, the Copts whose churches have been burned, the Kurds who have been slaughtered. I hope your genuine concern for Arabs extends to the majority of Arabs and isn't just veiled criticism of Israel and Western nations that too often don't live up to their own ideals.
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Arab citizens of Israel are free to vote, free to run for office, free to serve in the military but are not obligated as are Jewish citizens (many do anyway). Certainly the Druze does. One of the Israeli Supreme Court justices is an Arab for example. Is the reverse true in any Arab country?
There is prejudice and hostility towards Arabs in Israeli society. Unfortunate, but you can't expect sainthood from a people whose country has been repeatedly attacked by Arab countries and whose people have been subject to the same type of terror we saw in France only on a much greater scale and for far longer. Consider that the US dispossessed and forced 300,000 American citizens into detention camps during WWII for the crime of being of Japanese ancestry while America was at war with a country that was not trying to annihilate it. Despite all the hatred from the Arab world and the desire to destroy Israel by its neighbors and even among a segment of Israel's Arabs, the prejudice seen in Israeli society towards Arabs is quite mild in comparison.
And just as Israel's Arab citizens should expect equal rights and equal opportunity, so should Israel's Jews expect the right not to be blown up, machine-gunned, stabbed or kidnapped for ransom by Arab terrorists.
There is prejudice and hostility towards Arabs in Israeli society. Unfortunate, but you can't expect sainthood from a people whose country has been repeatedly attacked by Arab countries and whose people have been subject to the same type of terror we saw in France only on a much greater scale and for far longer. Consider that the US dispossessed and forced 300,000 American citizens into detention camps during WWII for the crime of being of Japanese ancestry while America was at war with a country that was not trying to annihilate it. Despite all the hatred from the Arab world and the desire to destroy Israel by its neighbors and even among a segment of Israel's Arabs, the prejudice seen in Israeli society towards Arabs is quite mild in comparison.
And just as Israel's Arab citizens should expect equal rights and equal opportunity, so should Israel's Jews expect the right not to be blown up, machine-gunned, stabbed or kidnapped for ransom by Arab terrorists.
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There is no human right that any particular group "must" be accepted in "every" country. Countries (and peoples) do, however, have the very real right of self-determination and preservation, and should not be expected to reshape their societies to fit the American mold.
"Je suis Juif" does NOT translate as "I am Jewish" it more accurately translates as "I am a Jew".
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"Juif" is both an adjective and a noun. So, "I am Jewish" is a valid translation. You may prefer "I am a Jew" in this context, but that doesn't invalidate the alternative.
Sorry, I'm wrong. The fact that the "J" is capitalized does indicate a noun!
For me, it means both. in French, we don't have an exact translation
The potential emigration of many French Jews to Israel is really more of a statement of the state of mind of Jews as it is in the UK where, today's Independent reports, half of the Jews in the UK are also thinking of going to Israel. America too has a steady emigration of Jews to Israel. Anti-Semitism plays a role in all this but economic factors are also at play. This is particularly true in France where the economy is flat. Also, Jews emigrating to Israel are doing so largely under a dual-citizenship basis which not only allows return but maintaining a life in two countries.
In spite of the provocations, though, I think that France will continue to have the largest Jewish population after that of the US and Israel because it is France, after all, where three million will peaceably march in Paris, in the face of terrorists threats, to reaffirm the 1789 Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen.
In spite of the provocations, though, I think that France will continue to have the largest Jewish population after that of the US and Israel because it is France, after all, where three million will peaceably march in Paris, in the face of terrorists threats, to reaffirm the 1789 Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen.
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If France marched after the murders of the schoolchildren in Toulouse 2 years ago, or after the torture and murder of Ilan Halimi, I might agree with you.
6
From the comments here, @ NYT, this statement "France without..." does not have the same support, as simple statement, that it seems to have in Paris. Today.
Consider: - Since there is considerable street-level harassment of Jews wearing symbol of Judaism France has a ways to go to establish safety, I suggest undercover stings, plai clothes officers pretending to be help[less Jews, drawing attacks and then arresting attackers
Examples made; then there is public debate, French Jews and Israeli Jews, Muslim French shooters and Gazan Muslim shooters
then publish demographics of those doing the attacking
I have my predictions
We could move to preventive neighborhood-based intensive patrolling
We might even end up with 'thought crimes,' and thought police, but hopefully not that far
WHAT IS NEEDED is a lower threshold of when discussion becomes conspiracy and be aware, as always, ne man's freedom is another woman's incitement
one jihadi's heroism is another cartoonist's terrorist
we have to decide, we CANNOT intercept the shooter in transit, guns primed, but must intercept the shooter at age 12 entering education and the school s/he enters
and so forth
better intel? - no intel will show when the planner goes active, so THAT is nonsense; these shooters were surveilled and then not surveiiled
they were all known, all shooters are knownafter the fact
prevention is not so easy
Consider: - Since there is considerable street-level harassment of Jews wearing symbol of Judaism France has a ways to go to establish safety, I suggest undercover stings, plai clothes officers pretending to be help[less Jews, drawing attacks and then arresting attackers
Examples made; then there is public debate, French Jews and Israeli Jews, Muslim French shooters and Gazan Muslim shooters
then publish demographics of those doing the attacking
I have my predictions
We could move to preventive neighborhood-based intensive patrolling
We might even end up with 'thought crimes,' and thought police, but hopefully not that far
WHAT IS NEEDED is a lower threshold of when discussion becomes conspiracy and be aware, as always, ne man's freedom is another woman's incitement
one jihadi's heroism is another cartoonist's terrorist
we have to decide, we CANNOT intercept the shooter in transit, guns primed, but must intercept the shooter at age 12 entering education and the school s/he enters
and so forth
better intel? - no intel will show when the planner goes active, so THAT is nonsense; these shooters were surveilled and then not surveiiled
they were all known, all shooters are knownafter the fact
prevention is not so easy
10
Why has a criminal gang slaying in France become exclusively about Jews? Four Jews were murdered and 16 Gentiles, but all of the sudden this issue is all about the the ones who refer to themselves as "chosen", ignoring that the slaying effected many more non Jews than Jews, as is always true in the world that is compose of 1 to 2% of Jewish faith. Of course France is France without Jews, or any religion; it is a secular state.
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The non-Jews were killed because in the mind of the killers they had done something to offend them; or were police who wer trying to apprehend them. The Jews were killed because they were Jews.
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"Why has a criminal gang slaying in France become exclusively about Jews?"
It hasn't. There were no less than a dozen articles yesterday about the cartoonists and Charlie Hebdo. But, if you think it has, it might be because the "gentiles" were murdered for practicing free speech the Jews for being Jews. Or it might be because the only female journalist killed (the other women were separated out) was a Jewess. Or maybe because the world is actually .2% Jewish NOT even close to 2%, so Jews were way overrepresented among the slain, as they are overrepresented in the contributions they make to the societies in which they live. That's what the "France without Jews" statement referred to.
It hasn't. There were no less than a dozen articles yesterday about the cartoonists and Charlie Hebdo. But, if you think it has, it might be because the "gentiles" were murdered for practicing free speech the Jews for being Jews. Or it might be because the only female journalist killed (the other women were separated out) was a Jewess. Or maybe because the world is actually .2% Jewish NOT even close to 2%, so Jews were way overrepresented among the slain, as they are overrepresented in the contributions they make to the societies in which they live. That's what the "France without Jews" statement referred to.
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Indeed, Jews comprise only 1-2% of the French population, but as in most countries, their contributions in medicine, science, politics, music, art, literature, culture, Nobel Prizes outweigh their meager numbers.
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Israel is not a Jewish state. It is a nation-state of the Jews, seen not as a religion but as a people who happen to have a religion (not an uncommon case). The percentage of people who are Orthodox in Israel is about 25 %: not much higher than that of Arabs and non-Jewish immigrants from the former USSR together. Pointed questions about the victims' burial in Jerusalem or their identity are the same tired antisemitic canard of "double loyalty" recast in new terms. French Jews are French citizens, though not necessarily ethnically French. If they immigrate to Israel, they either become Israeli citizens or have a double citizenship: a very common occurrence in today's world. How is this different from Algerian Arabs being French citizens or from ethnic Turks being German citizens? Many countries in Europe, including Germany, have an equivalent of the Israeli Law of Return, which gives preference to people of a specific ethnic origin in immigrating, while not excluding others. But of course, trying to explain to antisemites that Israel is just a country and not a source of all the evil in the world is a waste of time.
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So 'it' is a race when it suits it, and a religion when it suits it, as in America. OMG. How so very clever and terribly convenient. Wasn't that what the Germans were confused about too?
Try not calling people who you disagree with "anti-semites," and maybe you'll get a hearing. That is if you actually want one. But it's so much easier to slander and slur, isn't it?
There is no difference between you spewing "anti-semite," Mor, and those who lob the k-word. Your intent and their's is the same.
There is no difference between you spewing "anti-semite," Mor, and those who lob the k-word. Your intent and their's is the same.
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A related article says "French leaders, fearing the consequences of an exodus of Jews from France, have issued robust expressions of support."
Wake up and smell the hummus. Very few Jews remain in France. That is a direct result of French anti-Semitism over many years, especially during WWII under the Vichy government. If “France without Jews is not France.” it is a little late in the game to cry.
Wake up and smell the hummus. Very few Jews remain in France. That is a direct result of French anti-Semitism over many years, especially during WWII under the Vichy government. If “France without Jews is not France.” it is a little late in the game to cry.
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Very few Jews remain in France? How do you explain that it is the second largest Jewish diaspora in the world, then?
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You're wrong. France has the third highest Jewish population in the World. The Jewish population in France has been growing for decades.
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Let's allow the French to repent and prevent another moral collapse. Today's France is not Vichy. Thank God.
Jews of France must help France overcome intolerance of all types. Who else better understands discrimination and hate. As was said France without Jews is not France.
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France without Jews is not France, and France without Arabs is not France. Nor is Palestine without Palestinians Palestine. And an Israel that is only for Jews cannot be a democracy when large numbers of non-Jews are living there. Ethnic cleansing of France or of Israel cannot be acceptable. Let us not forget, the Jewish and Arab peoples have been living in these lands for a long time and respect is due for all, not just for those whom we chose to favor.
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Ethnic cleansing in Israel or in the Palestinian territories simply does not and will not exist, no matter how much the leaders of the Palestinians lie about it to provoke increased hatred toward the Jews. However, if the Palestinians have their way, there will be ethnic cleansing--ALL jews would be killed or forced out, of whatever region they control.
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Prime Minister Manuel Valls’ statement that “France Without Jews is Not France” shouldn’t not taken just literarily. He is broadly speaking to the fact that if France cannot protect its own minorities, the foundations of the Republic “Liberty, equality, fraternity” will be lost. When it comes to Jews, history may argue that this has already happened a while ago but it may not be too late to change course for the Jewish, Muslim and other minorities. It is about France’s soul and the current situation in France is just a mirror in their face.
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Prime Minister Manuel Valls’ statement that “France Without Jews is Not France” shouldn’t not taken just literarily. He is broadly speaking to the fact that if France cannot protect its own minorities, the foundations of the Republic “Liberty, equality, fraternity” will be lost. When it comes to Jews, history may argue that this has already happened a while ago but it may not be too late to change course for the Jewish, Muslim and other minorities. It is about France’s soul and the current situation in France is just a mirror in their face.
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The cartoons that sparked the outrageous attack COULD NOT BE PUBLISHED in Israel. Israel's position on free speech precludes speech that "insults or offends" any religious point of view. With Salman Rushdie, one must ask "So what would a respectful political cartoon look like?"
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Fraid not, a cartoon depicting Mohammad would first have to be judged as insulting or offensive.
I'd also bet that if they did, you would be accusing them of being deliberately provocative and offensive and ask why they permit such action which might cause an unnecessary war.
I'd also bet that if they did, you would be accusing them of being deliberately provocative and offensive and ask why they permit such action which might cause an unnecessary war.
That's true - Israel would not allow cartoons insulting Muslims to be published.
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You are mistaken. The latest Charlie Hebdo cartoon was published on some online Israeli news sites. In addition, there have been articles and editorials that have been critical of Bibi Netanyahu in the Israeli press. This would not happen in any other Muslim country. Not a single one. Israel does not publicly flog bloggers that are crtitical of the govt like our ally Saudi Arabia. Salman Rushdie is correct, however, Jewish anti-semitism has manifested itself in propaganda cartoons throughout Europe and the Muslim world. This has only helped to fuel further anti-semitism. There is a very fine line between satire and the promotion of disinformation and hatred. Too many people in the world are ignorant or not intelligent enough to see the difference.
Indeed, "France without Jews is not France"! If we take a lot at French history and culture, Jewish politicians, scientists, thinkers, writers, artists and entertainers had helped develop France.
In 2003 an EU poll showed that many believed Israel was the greatest threat to world peace. There was outrage among Israelis, who saw it as anti-Semitism. Jacques Chirac and his Government denied any anti-Semitism in the French republic.
Critics said the mounting hostility towards Israel in Europe was particularly strong among Arab immigrants who felt solidarity with the Palestinians. Criticism of the Israeli government's policies is fully legitimate. But it doesn't mean at all to refuse the Jews the right to exist and to have their state.
Henri Wajnblum, former president of the Union of Progressive Jews in Belgium said Jewish communities in Europe allied themselves closely with Israel's policies. He held Ariel Sharon partly responsible, saying "he wants more Jews in Israel, he wants to gain the demographic advantage. He is, in part at least, exploiting fears of anti-Semitism to persuade Europe's Jews to emigrate".
In recent years more and more European Jews break their long-time allegiance to the left and support neo-conservative parties, like the Front National, because of their anti-Muslim agenda and their support of Israel.
In 2003 an EU poll showed that many believed Israel was the greatest threat to world peace. There was outrage among Israelis, who saw it as anti-Semitism. Jacques Chirac and his Government denied any anti-Semitism in the French republic.
Critics said the mounting hostility towards Israel in Europe was particularly strong among Arab immigrants who felt solidarity with the Palestinians. Criticism of the Israeli government's policies is fully legitimate. But it doesn't mean at all to refuse the Jews the right to exist and to have their state.
Henri Wajnblum, former president of the Union of Progressive Jews in Belgium said Jewish communities in Europe allied themselves closely with Israel's policies. He held Ariel Sharon partly responsible, saying "he wants more Jews in Israel, he wants to gain the demographic advantage. He is, in part at least, exploiting fears of anti-Semitism to persuade Europe's Jews to emigrate".
In recent years more and more European Jews break their long-time allegiance to the left and support neo-conservative parties, like the Front National, because of their anti-Muslim agenda and their support of Israel.
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Europe without Jews is not in the best interest of Israel.
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"... doesn't mean to refuse the Jews the right to exist and have their state."
Actually, it does. If Israel gave the Palestinians all the concessions that both the Palestinians asked for( does 'drive the Jews into the sea' ring a bell?), and the Europeans asked for on behalf of the Palestinians (and the Europeans would always echo whatever the Palestinians asked for, just to end the 'bickering'), the State of Israel would cease to exist. And the Europeans would jump for joy. And then the roundup of Jews outside of Israel would begin again (or at least in Europe).
Actually, it does. If Israel gave the Palestinians all the concessions that both the Palestinians asked for( does 'drive the Jews into the sea' ring a bell?), and the Europeans asked for on behalf of the Palestinians (and the Europeans would always echo whatever the Palestinians asked for, just to end the 'bickering'), the State of Israel would cease to exist. And the Europeans would jump for joy. And then the roundup of Jews outside of Israel would begin again (or at least in Europe).
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The same is true in the U.S., where the Republican Jewish Headquarters (RJHQ.ORG) reports that the ranks of Jewish Republicans is steadily growing and currently stands at 29% of the Jewish electorate.
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"The destruction of Jewish businesses recalled painful images of past suffering endured by Europe’s Jews, including the violent attacks on Jewish merchants on Kristallnacht, the infamous night of Nov. 9, 1938, which was the beginning of the Nazi pogrom against Austrian and German Jews." This is an outrageous comparison. The NYT's Editorial Board should be ashamed of itself and apologize immediately.
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It's so ridiculously overblown.
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Can't you read? The events are not being compared. One is used to remind us of the other. I can see an elephant and be reminded of a whale.
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France without Jews would be a travesty.
France without a Right Wing dominated Israel would be a blessing.
The link between the re-birth of anti-Semitism in Europe and the hegemony of the right wing governments in Israel is continuously ignored.
Are Jews in France paying for the crimes of the IDF and the right wing Israeli government? Ask the perpetrators of the crimes and the would no doubt say 'yes'.
When will Jews worldwide stand up and decry the right wing nightmare in Israel while they celebrate the existence of the nation?
Then would come an Israel that I could feel proud of once again.
France without a Right Wing dominated Israel would be a blessing.
The link between the re-birth of anti-Semitism in Europe and the hegemony of the right wing governments in Israel is continuously ignored.
Are Jews in France paying for the crimes of the IDF and the right wing Israeli government? Ask the perpetrators of the crimes and the would no doubt say 'yes'.
When will Jews worldwide stand up and decry the right wing nightmare in Israel while they celebrate the existence of the nation?
Then would come an Israel that I could feel proud of once again.
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You are entitled to your opinion, but I strongly disagree.
IDF is probably the most moral military national force on this planet. Why are you not ranting about Hamas, ISIS, Boko Haram, Al Queda, the Sunnis, the Shia, the Buddhists in Mynamar and India, ad nauseam.
Israel has the right and duty to defend itself from attack and extinction with its military forces.
IDF is probably the most moral military national force on this planet. Why are you not ranting about Hamas, ISIS, Boko Haram, Al Queda, the Sunnis, the Shia, the Buddhists in Mynamar and India, ad nauseam.
Israel has the right and duty to defend itself from attack and extinction with its military forces.
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It's the Jews fault again for European hatred. It's always their own fault.
Thanks for clearing that up
Thanks for clearing that up
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So what is your excuse for the European anti-Semitism of the 1970's and 1980's when Labor governments were in power in Israel?
Anti-Semites rationalize their hatred of Jews, yours is nothing new.
Anti-Semites rationalize their hatred of Jews, yours is nothing new.
6
And to think.....religion is what causes all this.
Go figure.
Go figure.
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Religion is an excuse. This is a battle for land and power. Make that Religion is a means to an end.
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No, hatred is what causes this.
1
Great Editorial.
You forgot to ask the Christians in Iraq and Syria to stay there as well.
The anti Semitism in France is felt on a daily basis. Jews don't dare to wear yarmulkes in public. If Hebrew is heard you're most likely to get beaten.
So you expect the French Jews to be brave and send their kids to schools with soldiers protecting them.
How about if you show some courage as well, and show us some of Charlie's cartoons?
You forgot to ask the Christians in Iraq and Syria to stay there as well.
The anti Semitism in France is felt on a daily basis. Jews don't dare to wear yarmulkes in public. If Hebrew is heard you're most likely to get beaten.
So you expect the French Jews to be brave and send their kids to schools with soldiers protecting them.
How about if you show some courage as well, and show us some of Charlie's cartoons?
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What a brilliant comment, especially the last sentence!
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Other people's feelings cannot be challenged or even discussed. If there are persons in France who feel menaced and would feel more secure in Israel, it is their decision to make. Every country has that irreducible number of bigots whose anger and violence
focuses on a given minority group. These people cannot be discounted because they create discomfort often and violence occasionally. All of this is true, as it is true that there exists in France, and elsewhere, a secular anti-semitism which, despite the occasional defacing of Jewish sites, is fortunately on the wane. The Arab-Israel conflict which often, and unfairly, affects Jews in other areas should not be confused with episodes of local anti-Semitism that we witness from time to time. Having said all this, I do not see France as a country in which Jews cannot live in tranquillity and while a number of French Jews would feel more at home in Israel, I doubt very much that the great majority would give up what is their home and culture for what would at best be a painful relocation.
focuses on a given minority group. These people cannot be discounted because they create discomfort often and violence occasionally. All of this is true, as it is true that there exists in France, and elsewhere, a secular anti-semitism which, despite the occasional defacing of Jewish sites, is fortunately on the wane. The Arab-Israel conflict which often, and unfairly, affects Jews in other areas should not be confused with episodes of local anti-Semitism that we witness from time to time. Having said all this, I do not see France as a country in which Jews cannot live in tranquillity and while a number of French Jews would feel more at home in Israel, I doubt very much that the great majority would give up what is their home and culture for what would at best be a painful relocation.
22
The insecurity of the Jews of France is well-founded, and residence in Israel offers an attractive alternative. Nonetheless, I am heartened by the muscular response of the French government to protect synagogues and other sensitive Jewis sites in the wake of last week's attack on a kosher synagogue. Bravo to French authorities for protecting France's Jewish community, and to the people of France for their support.
Je suis juif.
Je suis juif.
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I am thrilled you are heartened. Were you also heartened when the synagogue was targeted last year and nothing was done? Were you also heartened when the police did nothing to protect Jewish children from marauding Arab gangs around Paris?
2
The anti-Jewish, anti-Israel extremists make the best case of all for the existence of the state of Israel!
However some may argue that Yasser Arafat, who died a Billionaire while his brethren went hungry; who lounged in luxury while he sent young Muslims to blow themselves up, might be reason no. one!
However some may argue that Yasser Arafat, who died a Billionaire while his brethren went hungry; who lounged in luxury while he sent young Muslims to blow themselves up, might be reason no. one!
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Muslims. You can't live with them. You can live without them.
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At best, the message of this editorial is tone deaf and at worst, insensitive and biased towards Jews, their history of persecution, and the current resurgence of anti-semitism (disguised as anti-Zionism) in Europe today. No one, at least not the Times, should be disappointed or surprised that French Jews wish to leave France, caught as they are between the old anti-semitism of the French far right, and the new anti-semitism of the French intellectual left, and where both resurgent in relation to the current turmoil in the Arab world and the lack of reformation of the extreme Islam practiced by countries and terrorist organization sworn to kill Jews in the name of fighting Israel. Virtually all the comments in this section make this point, which makes one wonder why NYTimes did not think twice before publishing this editorial, so off the mark.
Even in the absence of overt, violent anti-semitism, the non-JEwish world should recognize that at least a proportion of French Jews who strongly identify as being Jewish, religious and secular both, may want to emigrate to Israel to live a more fulfilling life -- as Jews is their own country! When will papers like the NYTimes finally recognize that JEwish self-expression as a people is as important as their safety from anti-semitism when it comes to making aliyah (emigration to Israel)?
Even in the absence of overt, violent anti-semitism, the non-JEwish world should recognize that at least a proportion of French Jews who strongly identify as being Jewish, religious and secular both, may want to emigrate to Israel to live a more fulfilling life -- as Jews is their own country! When will papers like the NYTimes finally recognize that JEwish self-expression as a people is as important as their safety from anti-semitism when it comes to making aliyah (emigration to Israel)?
54
I think that the United States would not be the United States without Hispanics, but a lot of people would disagree with that, including a lot of Jews. And the United States has cities and states named Santa Fe, Nevada, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Amarillo, Palo Alto, Arizona, and yet many Americans feel that Hispanics are a foreign army. Go figure. How many French cities have Hebrew names?
34
It is challenging to juxtapose different cultures across different environments. Both are important to their countries in their own way.
While History is definitely not my strong point, I'm pretty sure Jews were oppressed and forced to live in ghettos for many years in France's history. In that type of environment I would say it is pretty hard to name a city with a Hebrew name.
Culture can emerge in many facets; I'm sure each culture thrives in a different way.
While History is definitely not my strong point, I'm pretty sure Jews were oppressed and forced to live in ghettos for many years in France's history. In that type of environment I would say it is pretty hard to name a city with a Hebrew name.
Culture can emerge in many facets; I'm sure each culture thrives in a different way.
15
A lot of cities have Indian names, but that doesn't mean Indians own them, just the casinos.
18
I know for a fact that anti-semitism goes as far back in France to WWI era. Look up the Dreyfus affair.
1
If France truly appreciates its Jewish citizens, as is now being claimed, why have the government and people of France been so quiet in the face of rising animosity towards them? Whatever one may believe of the Arab-Israeli conflict, one fact is perfectly clear, that the Jewish citizens of France, and all of Europe, do not deserve to be punished for the perceived sins of Israel. Nonetheless the presence of signs calling for "Death to Jews", the harassment of Jewish owned businesses and the desecration of Jewish houses of worship have seemingly been seen as justified because of Gaza. While Jewish people are 1% of the overall population of France, they are 40% of the hate crimes victims. Clearly something has been happening but no one has been attending to it. Sadly, after lifetimes of loyalty, the Jewish citizens of France have to wonder if their nation will keep them safe, but if they dare to consider leaving they are accused of disloyalty, as if that is the only issue at play.
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It would be helpful if Netanyahu, as leader of Israel, stopped claiming to represent the Jewish people. I have no doubt that this summer's war in the West Bank and against Gaza. the destruction of 96.000 Palestinian homes in Gaza, the photos of it spread, the callous admission that this was "mowing the lawn" once again, the decades this occupation has been going on, contributes to keeping an otherwise unreasonable and maybe mending, if not subdued anti-Semitism fresh. It's ironic and insulting then that Netanyahu appears at this sensitive moment for France, despite being asked not to, inviting French Jews to emigrate. What is he offering in terms of a future of safety and security?
2
And I have no doubt that if Hamas hadn't started that war, nor used its citizens as human shields for its rocket launchers and command centers, nor diverted the tons of cement it whined were needed for the good of Gaza into construction of tunnels into Israel for the purpose of kidnapping Israeli civilians or massacring them, there wouldn't have been any destruction in Gaza.
So considering the Allies of WWII killed a million German and Japanese civilians while flattening their cities in a war that had to be fought, can we assume you would have been just as horrified if someone had flashed a photo of Winston Churchill or Franklin Roosevelt during the marches?
So considering the Allies of WWII killed a million German and Japanese civilians while flattening their cities in a war that had to be fought, can we assume you would have been just as horrified if someone had flashed a photo of Winston Churchill or Franklin Roosevelt during the marches?
4
It is absolutely true that "France without Jews is not France." Prominent Jewish Frenchmen include two 20th Century Prime Ministers--Leon Blum and Pierre Mendes France, the founding namesake of one of France's most famous and daring automakers--Andre Citroen, leading inter-war race driver Rene Dreyfus, quintessential French philosopher Jacques Derrida, Swinging 60s singer/songwriter Serge Gainsbourg, modern symphonic composer Darius Milhaud and even Marcel Proust was half-Jewish. If one were to suddenly sweep away all the Jews from France, the brilliant country we know of would indeed be gone.
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Well, the French majority may wishes to be less brilliant, perhaps, but solidly Jew-free. This is an unspoken, but compelling reason, isn't it?
3
Yes incredible if one looks at the love-hate relationship France (and other European countries) have istorically had with the jewish people
You forgot to mention Marcel Marceau (né "Mangel").
Or perhaps, that was intentional, considering that M. Marceau was a mime who, himself, never uttered his own name.
Or perhaps, that was intentional, considering that M. Marceau was a mime who, himself, never uttered his own name.
1
Does it not seem odd that these poor four souls were transferred from their beloved France, and interred in a foreign land? Does anyone know if it was in their stated wishes to be buried in Israel. Were the families promised coveted burial plots, such as on the hills of Jerusalem?
Its clear that the present right-wing government of Israel wishes every person of Jewish persuasion worldwide emigrate to Israel. One consequence would be a forestalling of the impending demographic calculus that favours the Arabs. It would also mean a loss for communities worldwide who would be minus a valuable and necessary constituent of society. Thankfully it will never happen.
Its clear that the present right-wing government of Israel wishes every person of Jewish persuasion worldwide emigrate to Israel. One consequence would be a forestalling of the impending demographic calculus that favours the Arabs. It would also mean a loss for communities worldwide who would be minus a valuable and necessary constituent of society. Thankfully it will never happen.
28
Foreign land? You don't get it, do you?
No Jew is a foreigner in Israel. Dead or alive.
No Jew is a foreigner in Israel. Dead or alive.
114
Tom, they were buried in Israel because of very real concerns - based on numerous acts of anti-Semitic violence in France over the last few years, including vandalism of Jewish cemeteries - that their graves would be desecrated if they were buried in France.
That is sad on many fronts.
That is sad on many fronts.
143
It isn't odd. For centuries we returned in old age, to be buried there. My paternal great great grandfather was buried on the Mount of Olives until the Arabs exhumed him.
Being buried in Israel guarantees you will rise up when the Messiah comes. The burial means they were righteous.
The offer, & its acceptance by the families, has immense significance.
Being buried in Israel guarantees you will rise up when the Messiah comes. The burial means they were righteous.
The offer, & its acceptance by the families, has immense significance.
42
"[A]fter Israel's Incursion into Gaza." That, right there, is the critical point. If Israel had not killed thousands of Muslims civilians in Palestine, there would be no antisemitic backlash. It seems that society willfully, intentionally, just does not want to get this fact.
Invoking the Holocaust in this situation is preposterous. The state of France will not, I am happy to predict, begin murdering and disenfranchising the Jewish community. Other readers have pointed out the historical persecution of Jewry. It is right that that happened, but it will not happen in a modern liberal democratic state.
I must say, Arabs and Jews are both Semitic peoples, and they are both more the same than different. There are lots of religions, but those two are the only two engaging in illegal acts or war against people of other religions.
Invoking the Holocaust in this situation is preposterous. The state of France will not, I am happy to predict, begin murdering and disenfranchising the Jewish community. Other readers have pointed out the historical persecution of Jewry. It is right that that happened, but it will not happen in a modern liberal democratic state.
I must say, Arabs and Jews are both Semitic peoples, and they are both more the same than different. There are lots of religions, but those two are the only two engaging in illegal acts or war against people of other religions.
36
"If Israel had not killed thousands of Muslims civilians in Palestine, there would be no antisemitic backlash."
Sorry Andrew, but neither history nor antisemitism started last summer.
Sorry Andrew, but neither history nor antisemitism started last summer.
219
As a Holocaust survivor I need to ask this question - why do people look for a rationalization for anti-Semitism? Today, "If Israel had not..." is a typical way of beginning such a rationalization. As a teen living in Brooklyn in the 50s and 60s, when I was accosted and beaten by a group of non-Jews in my own neighborhood my late father would say that had I not been walking on the streets, I would not have been beaten. Long before there was an Israel, anti-Semites the world over would find ways of blaming the Jews for bringing anti-Semitism upon themselves. Comments such as those expressed in the previous posting prove that this attitude still exists. As the writer said "It seems that society willfully, intentionally, just does not want to get this fact."
223
And if there were no problems with Gaza, I guess the Dreyfus affair never would have happened and the Vichy government would have never deported Jews to the concentration camps.
As to it not happening in a modern democratic state, it happened in Germany and in France, which before World
War II had something the U.S. has never had: a Jewish head of state.
As to it not happening in a modern democratic state, it happened in Germany and in France, which before World
War II had something the U.S. has never had: a Jewish head of state.
11
The Jews are a smart group of people that make lots of contributions to society (science, business, arts, medicine, entertainment, etc...) despite their small size. If the Jews of any country were to leave, that country would experience a brain drain as well as face economic hardships.
Therefore it is in France's best interests to protect its Jewish population, who in general have a lot more to offer than the Muslims.
When was the last time a bunch of Jews blew themselves up or held people hostage over a cartoon?
Therefore it is in France's best interests to protect its Jewish population, who in general have a lot more to offer than the Muslims.
When was the last time a bunch of Jews blew themselves up or held people hostage over a cartoon?
181
When was the last time a bunch of Jews kidnapped a Palestinian child, made him drink gasoline, and burned him alive? All people, including Jews, have sickos in their midst. No one, unfortunately, is exempt. But, fortunately, most people are decent, no matter what their race or religious affiliation.
3
Great, M.Gessbergwitz. Let's hear the details of your formula for determining, based on their religion's contribution to society, exactly who is deemed worthy of protection.
Sorry, but this type of thinking a huge part of the problem.
Sorry, but this type of thinking a huge part of the problem.
3
When I think of Jews in Europe today, Paris, London, and Antwerp come to mind, with large, thriving communities and a resultant vibrant cultural scene, accessible for all. That is sadly lacking in the German cities of Berlin and Hamburg where I lived for many years in the 1980s and 1990s. Those cities, while hip and interesting, are oddly sterile.
My bet is the Europeans who participated in the First Crusade would have violently disagreed with your banner headline. Their odious beliefs and feelings have persisted in Europe for almost a thousand years and in many of its countries.
No wonder the Jews feel so anxious and terrified. I would also.
No wonder the Jews feel so anxious and terrified. I would also.
64
The French are so busy being Charlie or Ahmed, that they "forgot" about Yoav and the other Jewish lives in the current and recent massacres. It seems that Jewish lives don't matter in France and "Je suis Juif" has not caught on as a slogan. France without Jews will still be France, but there is no Israel without Jews which is always every Jew's home.
96
Sorry? You obviously weren't there at the rally last sunday and forgot to look at the placard that were held then... about half of them read "Je suis Charlie, Je suis policier, je suis juif" (I am Charlie, I am a police officer, I am a jew). Quite a few also sported "I am a muslim", BTW...
There _is_ some antisemitism in France, particularly amongst the young, disfranchised muslims who feel that not only are they considered second-rate citizen (which is unfortunately too right for quite a sizable percentage of the French population, racism is very much alive here thank you), but also nurse a "oppressed muslems together" mentality and confuse jews with Israel. But to state that people were incensed at the death of cartoonists and indifferent to the death of jews is a gross deformation and, frankly, defamation
There _is_ some antisemitism in France, particularly amongst the young, disfranchised muslims who feel that not only are they considered second-rate citizen (which is unfortunately too right for quite a sizable percentage of the French population, racism is very much alive here thank you), but also nurse a "oppressed muslems together" mentality and confuse jews with Israel. But to state that people were incensed at the death of cartoonists and indifferent to the death of jews is a gross deformation and, frankly, defamation
7
It also says something that all the coverage of the Golden Globe awards noted the number of presenters and honorees who mentioned Charlie and free speech but not one who said anything about the attack on Jews. And this in an industry that has a large number of Jews in it. It seems like the period before World War II when Hollywood was afraid of doing anything that might insult Hitler.
2
It's just that we Jews elsewhere seemingly have been more alarmed and outraged than you about the murders of France's Jews before last week. If the great country of France had marched after the murders of schoolchildren in Toulouse, you and we would probably feel less "defamed".
1
Several years ago, a black Jewish man showed up in our synagogue. He was originally from Africa, then moved to France with his wife. He was visiting family here in the States before moving to Israel.
He experienced several racist attacks from Muslims in France--not for being black, but for being Jewish. The chief response was not to protect the Jews, but to blame the victims, or minimize the attacks, or ignore them.
The breaking point was one day he walked to synagogue wearing his prayer shawl (as an observant man must do) & he was attacked by three Muslim thugs shouting anti-semitic epithets, & beaten up. The French police not only didn't bother to pursue the attackers, they blamed HIM--for 'provoking' the attack. By wearing the prayer shawls. That same week, his ten year old son was beaten up while playing soccer by a couple of Muslim boys. The kids beat him up because the child was wearing a kippa.
The man blamed not the Muslim thugs, but France. He noted that in America it was (so far) perfectly safe to walk to synagogue with your prayer shawls. He believed that France was simply letting the Muslims do their dirty work.
This is why Jews are leaving & this is why they are terrified.If France truly believes that "France without Jews is not France," it will require a whole lot more than these noble sounding words. Words are cheap. Temporary policing is a dog & pony show. What France needs is to recognize it has a serious racist problem against Jews & to want to change.
He experienced several racist attacks from Muslims in France--not for being black, but for being Jewish. The chief response was not to protect the Jews, but to blame the victims, or minimize the attacks, or ignore them.
The breaking point was one day he walked to synagogue wearing his prayer shawl (as an observant man must do) & he was attacked by three Muslim thugs shouting anti-semitic epithets, & beaten up. The French police not only didn't bother to pursue the attackers, they blamed HIM--for 'provoking' the attack. By wearing the prayer shawls. That same week, his ten year old son was beaten up while playing soccer by a couple of Muslim boys. The kids beat him up because the child was wearing a kippa.
The man blamed not the Muslim thugs, but France. He noted that in America it was (so far) perfectly safe to walk to synagogue with your prayer shawls. He believed that France was simply letting the Muslims do their dirty work.
This is why Jews are leaving & this is why they are terrified.If France truly believes that "France without Jews is not France," it will require a whole lot more than these noble sounding words. Words are cheap. Temporary policing is a dog & pony show. What France needs is to recognize it has a serious racist problem against Jews & to want to change.
246
So the French Jews should trust the French government to protect them. That will last as long as people are excited about this and then it will go right back to the way it was.
And yet if the Jews band together to try to defend themselves against the hoards of anti-semites who burned their stores and tried to lynch their synagogues this summer they are branded as militants and extremists.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/07/world/europe/militant-jewish-group-con...
And yet if the Jews band together to try to defend themselves against the hoards of anti-semites who burned their stores and tried to lynch their synagogues this summer they are branded as militants and extremists.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/07/world/europe/militant-jewish-group-con...
77
Jews did band together to protect themselves. In 1948. And the world has never forgiven them.
4
The fact that the Jewish victims had to be buried in Israel speaks volumes. Even their corpses' safety could not be guaranteed in France. How utterly sad.
133
The issue of Jewry in France has a long and troubled history from the Dreyfus Affair to Vichy and now to the rise of ultra-right radicalism in the Jean Marie Pen's nationalist, antisemitic party as well as the attacks by radical Islamic terrorists as we've just witnessed in Paris. As the son of European Jewish refugees, I can appreciate the sense of cultural rejection and insecurity by French Jews. However, like you, I hope they will stay and not flee. France and Europe clearly have a problem with angry, alienated, and radicalized Muslim youth. This is the group that must be dealt with through increased opportunity and the elimination of radical religious leaders. They are the ones who either must assimilate or be asked to emigrate, and not the the Jews of France.
76
Maybe it's time for the remnants French's colonial occupation of Algeria (their descendants and their religion) to leave France.
41
That's like asking African-Americans to leave the United States. None of these people had wanted anything to do with white Europeans. Yet, we enslaved them (in the US) and colonized them (in Africa). They have has much right to be in France as anyone. It is up to France to provide them with better opportunities than they have done so far.
15
Welfare benefits abroad would amount to a cup of sand to eat each day.
Maybe a UN tent and no cable.
That is why it's a bad idea to feed alligators.
Maybe a UN tent and no cable.
That is why it's a bad idea to feed alligators.
But those in Algeria were considered citizens of France.
I applaud the French government for their quick dispatch of soldiers to protect Jewish schools and institutions. But my gut tells me that this is but a temporary break in the insanity. What happens when Le Pen starts asking why the "French people" have to pay to protect the Jewish minority? Or when she suggests that French Jews might be better off moving to Israel? Or, as one CNN commentator said, "moving back to Israel."
60
Well, at least she recognized Jews have the right to go to the Jewish state of Israel. That's more than I can say for a large segment of the political Left these days.
9
Why would Le Pen bring up the Jewish minority? Primarily, it's the issue with Muslims that gets her supporters and makes her popular. Her voters probably don't care about Jews, French young and angry Muslims do. But she's not interested in getting their support, so there's no reason to be against the Jewish minority. It's a misunderstanding that all right-wing parties are anti-Jewish, perhaps typical for a person who only heard about right-wing politics in the context of nazi Germany. In Eastern Europe for example, the ultra right-wing parties are mostly anti-gypsy, because that's the trouble-making minority.
What a great irony it would be if it took a National Front government to make France safe for its Jews. All liberal shibboleths about frightened Jews and Muslims aside, it is the attitudes of the European left that have helped to make that continent unsafe for Jews in recent decades, not the old fascist bêtes noires. One wonders how far behind the US is, with the NYT lecturing Jews not to go to Israel.
41
It would not be ironic at all. Quite the contrary.
Thank you for publishing this thoughtful, sensitive and timely article.
10
This is what happens when you let thousands of people into your country who hate Jews and want to establish Sharia Law in France.
Not all immigrants are created equal.
Not all immigrants are created equal.
125
Oy! Take a look at France's past as a colonial power in such places as Algeria. Any connection between their role historically and the people who have emigrated to their country. Time to connect the dots, folks!
3
Thousands? Try millions.
As a very reformed Jew who lived in western Europe many years I was very relieved to return to the US with my young children. French Jews are right to worry. While liberals are bending over backwards to implore people not to blame all Muslims for the acts of a few these same people have no problem blaming any (French) jew for the political situation in the middle east. Terrible hypocrisy that on a daily basis leads to feeling uncomfortable and threatened in their own country. I am very grateful to live here instead.
220
Is Israel safer for Jews? That is the question.
11
Yesterday I attended the Jerusalem funeral of the terror victims and asked some French immigrants to Israel this very question. They said Israel isn't necessarily safer when you factor in terrorism, but that in Israel they can live as Jews, unafraid to wear a yarmulke or prayer shawl. They feel that by living in Israel they are helping to develop the Jewish homeland. They gave up "the good" life to move to Israel, where things are so expensive and there is terrorism, but they are much happier, they said.
73
Many European Jews asked the same question ... in 1939. A lot guessed wrong.
18
And many more would have chosen to go to Palestine if the British hadn't had tight restrictions on immigration to there. It was one of the major reasons for the establishment of Israel: a place where Jews would never be turned away from.
7
Not surprising. It was only last year during Hamas' terror war on Israel that French liberals and Muslims marched in the streets of Paris chanting "death to Jews."
108
All French were the same until the Germans marched in and then suddenly Jews were different.
If you like racism, but don't like being the oppressed minority, by all means move to Israel. But if you're not part of the solution, then you are part of the problem.
10
I don't understand this obsession in the western media (mainly US and UK) with only Jews/Christians and their well-being.
What about the lives of thousands of Hindus, Buddhists and people of all other non-Abrahamic faiths who are massacred on a daily basis by Islamic terrorists all over the world? Be it in China (Xinjiang), Russia (Chechnya), India and Africa. Don't they matter at all and deserve some column inches?
One Jewish or Christian life is under threat the western media jumps up and down in an outcry. Somehow when people of other faiths are threatened and harmed, it is somehow always their fault and the western press goes into preaching mode of tolerance and understanding of violent Islamists.
This double-standards employed by the western press over decades is simply nauseating to say the least.
What about the lives of thousands of Hindus, Buddhists and people of all other non-Abrahamic faiths who are massacred on a daily basis by Islamic terrorists all over the world? Be it in China (Xinjiang), Russia (Chechnya), India and Africa. Don't they matter at all and deserve some column inches?
One Jewish or Christian life is under threat the western media jumps up and down in an outcry. Somehow when people of other faiths are threatened and harmed, it is somehow always their fault and the western press goes into preaching mode of tolerance and understanding of violent Islamists.
This double-standards employed by the western press over decades is simply nauseating to say the least.
26
That's true everywhere.
If a plane crashes somewhere, Chinese and Indian media report on the Chinese or Indian passengers who might have been on that plane, and not so much the German or Nigerian or Bosnian passengers.
Media report whats most relevant to their primary consumers.
If a plane crashes somewhere, Chinese and Indian media report on the Chinese or Indian passengers who might have been on that plane, and not so much the German or Nigerian or Bosnian passengers.
Media report whats most relevant to their primary consumers.
22
But that is true about American casualties on planes, also! The first or second mention is how many Americans were on board!
1
And the Buddhist-Muslim conflicts in China (Xinjiang), Burma, Thailand and Sri Lanka should also not be left out of the discussion.
Anyone who brings up Israel in this conversation is blatantly guilty of the same horrible logic that leads many in the west to call Muslims to "account for Al Qaeda." Many secular and religious jews disagree with the policies of Israel, and their lives are at risk from terrorism.
35
And even more Jewish lives have been saved from terrorism by the "policies of Israel."
37
As someone who grew up as a Jew in a country with a predominantly Muslim population, I understand what it's like to live under constant fear. I didn't understood then why at the age of 6, I was once surrounded by angry men and beaten. I do now. I, a Jew, accidentally crossed into the Muslim sect of our neighborhood. They didn't want me there. They didn't want my family there. They didn't want the Jewish people there. Under tremendous threat and persecution, hundreds of thousands of Jews have since fled this country (almost 100% of us).
To say "Let us not give Hitler this posthumous victory" in reference to Jews emigrating from France is easy. To live in fear, to be beaten, to be afraid, to have lost your friends - for being Jewish - that's the hard part.
We eventually fled. We did NOT give Hitler a victory. We fled because my parents believed that their children deserve the fundamental right to live in freedom. And at the time, our only option was Israel - because Israel was designed for people like us, Jews who are persecuted and have nowhere else to go. Though we eventually ended up in the United States, at least I understand why having access to a Jewish homeland for the Jewish people is important.
To say "Let us not give Hitler this posthumous victory" in reference to Jews emigrating from France is easy. To live in fear, to be beaten, to be afraid, to have lost your friends - for being Jewish - that's the hard part.
We eventually fled. We did NOT give Hitler a victory. We fled because my parents believed that their children deserve the fundamental right to live in freedom. And at the time, our only option was Israel - because Israel was designed for people like us, Jews who are persecuted and have nowhere else to go. Though we eventually ended up in the United States, at least I understand why having access to a Jewish homeland for the Jewish people is important.
215
But if just one Israeli airstrike should unfortunately kill civilians who lived too close to where Hamas deliberately planted a rocket launcher with which to willfully kill Israeli civilians, the cries of "genocide" and "crimes against humanity" will thunder forth ad nauseum from the usual suspects in Europe and in these "progressive" NY Times blogs.
80
And it's odd how little coverage there is of Egypt's harsh policy toward Gaza and how Hamas hasn't called for Egypt being wiped off the earth.
3
Yes, and if Egypt went in to destroy Hamas once and for all, flattening the place in the process, there'd be a few speeches and denunciations ...maybe, and that would be the end of it. It would be chalked up as one of those Third World things.
2
"If one is attacked as a Jew, one must defend oneself as a Jew." Hannah Arendt, "What Remains? The Language Remains", An interview with Gunter Gaus October 1964.
10
So, should the French government reconsider its immigration policy, or would that be Islamophobic and thus unthinkable?
23
How sad not to feel safe in your own country. I forget how lucky we are to be Americans.
23
You also forget the constant onslaught of gun deaths in the United States. France is far safer.
28
The Islamists also face the threat of armed Americans, those terrorists would have been shot to pieces in suburban America, they wouldn't make it halfway down my block.
And this is precisely why the UN agreed upon the moral, humanitarian and political necessity to establish Israel. Destructive intolerance toward Jews is not only part of the the extremist mainstream, but also has roots in the rhetoric and actions in the history of many cultures, Middle Eastern and otherwise.
38
These people refuse to assimilate and when you disagree or offend them they kill you without hesitation and without regret. As long as France continues to accept radical Muslims no French Jew is safe. They are dedicated to wiping every single Jew off the face of the earth and when all the Jews are gone they will come and kill all the rest of us.The modern western countries must discontinue allowing these people to immigrate because they believe they have some sort of holy mandate to impose their religion on everyone else.The safe and civilized world we all enjoy ends where Islamic extremism begins.
82
Someone should read your post to Obama. For some reason he has a blind spot.
In the 19th century, there were hundreds of thousands if not a million Jews living side by side with Muslims in Lybia, Egypt, Morroco, Tunisia, Jordan, Syria, Turkey, Iran and Iraq. With the rise of modern Islam, and frank violent antisemitism practiced in these nations, there are no longer any Jews living in these Arab nations. This loss of Jews also happened in Spain during the inquisition and most of Europe during the mid 20th century. Jews left Jerusalem in the 1st century due to Roman antisemitism.
In a similar fashion, with the rise of violent antisemitism practiced by the Islamic communit in France, there will be no more Jews living in France.
In a similar fashion, with the rise of violent antisemitism practiced by the Islamic communit in France, there will be no more Jews living in France.
56
Historical sensationalist,recall the murderous madness of Klaus Barbie and Adolf Eichmann,the Nazi henchmen who coordinated the slaughter of countless frenchmen and women.Some were Jews.They had all given offense to the executioners...by existing.Has the world returned to such an era?Does the same 'solution...apply?
10
What the Third Reich and Vichy could not accomplish, ridding France (and the rest of Europe for that matter) of its remaining Jewish citizens seems to be well within the grasp of both the Islamists and xenophobic right wingers.
19
The incoherence of this editorial, whose subtitle contradicts its title, follows from the incoherence of the modern Zionist narrative to which the editors are clearly sympathetic.
The citizens of France who are of Jewish religion or ethnicity -- are they French Jews, or Jewish Frenchmen?
For a Zionist, giving a straight answer is awkward insofar as the essence of original Zionism is that there should be no such thing as Jewish Frenchmen. And such is the message which Netanyahu brought to Paris. Jews belong in Israel, the only place they can be safe. If that's problematic and offensive to Hollande and patriotic Frenchmen, so be it.
Yet at the same time the mere existence of Israel is held to be a spiritual and culturally unifying force for Jews the world over, no matter where they reside. Anti-assimilation-land, as it were. No actual need to move there. In fact Israel's very survival may require its Jewish Frenchmen, its Jewish Americans, its Jewish Englishmen. For example I doubt the Times editors are looking to leave their homes in America. Their work is cut out for them here.
The citizens of France who are of Jewish religion or ethnicity -- are they French Jews, or Jewish Frenchmen?
For a Zionist, giving a straight answer is awkward insofar as the essence of original Zionism is that there should be no such thing as Jewish Frenchmen. And such is the message which Netanyahu brought to Paris. Jews belong in Israel, the only place they can be safe. If that's problematic and offensive to Hollande and patriotic Frenchmen, so be it.
Yet at the same time the mere existence of Israel is held to be a spiritual and culturally unifying force for Jews the world over, no matter where they reside. Anti-assimilation-land, as it were. No actual need to move there. In fact Israel's very survival may require its Jewish Frenchmen, its Jewish Americans, its Jewish Englishmen. For example I doubt the Times editors are looking to leave their homes in America. Their work is cut out for them here.
7
I see the subtitle has now been edited to remove the contradiction.
3
American taxpayers, 98% of which are not Jews, have been paying for the State of Israel for decades. Jews should make use of the taxpayers' money.
8
We will, rest assured
5
Israel does. By buying American-made military equipment and producing American jobs ... oh, and by refusing to sell billions of dollars in technology to the Chinese in deference to American interests. Meanwhile, you can enjoy all that money you spend every week filling up with gasoline made from Arab oil pumped by technology given them by Western companies, and produced in countries that flog you if you have an open mind, force their women to live in head-to-toe body coverings, and within which more than a few who grew wealthy on that oil you buy donate a great deal of that money to the very jihadi forces who are attacking the West now.
53
According to an IRS study put out last year, financial support for Israel amounts to only $10.00 per taxpayer per year.
7
Thousands of years of Jewish history demonstrates to us that Jews when confronted with theocratic or State endorsed antisemitism tend to leave that locale in large numbers or suffer the consequences. This established the Jewish diaspora and has been proven again and again. Obvious examples of Jewish population flight include the Roman times of Temple destruction in Ancient Jerusalem, the Catholics in Spain during the inquisition and the Germans and their allies in Europe in the 20th century to name but a few organized pogroms against the Jews.
Therefore, we can conclude, that in France the Jews will flee because at least 10% of the France population includes multi-generational Muslims have been taught by their community family and clergy that Jews are lower on the evolutionary ladder than dogs and pond scum and must die or convert to Islam.
Therefore, we can conclude, that in France the Jews will flee because at least 10% of the France population includes multi-generational Muslims have been taught by their community family and clergy that Jews are lower on the evolutionary ladder than dogs and pond scum and must die or convert to Islam.
31
Being pragmatic (and having several Jewish friends) I ask myself where would our society be today without these folks (in the arts, sciences, music, medicine and so forth)?. I have a hard time understanding how such a small group of people, having contributed so much, can be discriminated against. And I'm not talking about Israel and some of her policies, with which I disagree. I agree, I could not imagine France (or the US) without Jews. I can, however, imagine these countries without Muslims. Am I in trouble now for speaking my mind?
74
Re: "I have a hard time understanding how such a small group of people, having contributed so much, can be discriminated against."
I'm quite sure these contributions themselves account to a great extent for the resentment. Most individuals, of any race or religion or culture, who are truly creative or extraordinarily intelligent are made by society to suffer for their gifts. Why wouldn't an entire people?
I'm quite sure these contributions themselves account to a great extent for the resentment. Most individuals, of any race or religion or culture, who are truly creative or extraordinarily intelligent are made by society to suffer for their gifts. Why wouldn't an entire people?
19
You're certainly not in trouble with me.
18
You are talking about one group of people being disposable and another group being irreplaceable. What could possibly be offensive about that?
2
If the four innocent Jews had been slaughtered by an Islamic fanatic only, without the mass murder of the Charlie Hebdo cartoonists hours before, we would have heard the same platitudes of concern and shock for a day or two as we've heard every time these fanatics murdered innocent Jews in the last few years -- in Toulouse, in Ghent, in Marseilles and other places -- and life in Europe would continue on as before. We'd get European athletes doing the quenelle (the inverted Hitler salute), French comics slurring Jews to packed houses, and hyperventilating politicians accusing Israel of genocide and willful murder of civilians -- even suggesting the IDF kills Arabs to harvest their organs as the most popular magazine in Sweden did in an article two years ago. We'd have heard the same twisted garbage from closet antisemites questioning whether these murdered French Jews somehow brought this murder on themselves because of harsh Israeli policy towards Palestinians (a BBC reporter did just that yesterday while interviewing a family member of one of the slain and had to apologize -- cover up his slick Jew-hate, that is), notwithstanding the waves of terror and death inflicted on innocent Israelis whenever Israel has loosed up checkpoints and surveillance of Palestinian population centers.
In fact, the murders would have made as much of a splash as the scores of people murdered by the Boko Haram Islamic terror group just last week. In other words, tsk, tsk, yawn.
In fact, the murders would have made as much of a splash as the scores of people murdered by the Boko Haram Islamic terror group just last week. In other words, tsk, tsk, yawn.
163
The Jewish people in France are being tarnished by two factors--the actions of the Hasidim, and the unconditional support by the U.S. of Israel. Until those issues are resolved, and they will not be resolved easily, there will be a continuing distrust of Jewish motives and ongoing resentment of Jewish advancement in French society.
17
What exactly are you accusing the Hasidim of?
If there is "Jewish advancement" in France, or for that matter anywhere, it is due to their commitment to education, curiosity, and the Jewish concept and value of "tikkun olam" - the "repairing of the world" - a world which, as we can all see, is very much broken.
If there is "Jewish advancement" in France, or for that matter anywhere, it is due to their commitment to education, curiosity, and the Jewish concept and value of "tikkun olam" - the "repairing of the world" - a world which, as we can all see, is very much broken.
29
Jews must make their homes wherever they feel they can live and thrive without fear. Those places in the world may be dwindling, but it's a sorrowful feeling to think that Western Europe is no longer a place of safety for Jews. The reflexive scapegoating will probably never end, and those demonstrations against Jewish businesses in France to protest the war with Gaza seemed almost like a convenient excuse, and would have happened, anyway, over something else. But it's not a time to get hysterical, and it's never a good time to think that, as Jews, isolation is our only recourse. We have survived far worse.
28
no doubt antisemitism is alive and well. However, the actions of Israel provides fuel through association much as the actions of radical Islamists fuel hatred of Muslims
11
Well then all their loving brethren in neighboring countries might want to finally assimilate them, give them full citizenship etc. Notice anyone screaming eptihets at Egypt as it fully demolishes Rafah? No, didn't think so.
There is a difference between being a cause and a scape goat. Israel undoubtedly has some responsibility in the situation, but I'd give primary responsibility to all the Arab countries who do not want the Palestinians either, in any way, shape or form.
There is a difference between being a cause and a scape goat. Israel undoubtedly has some responsibility in the situation, but I'd give primary responsibility to all the Arab countries who do not want the Palestinians either, in any way, shape or form.
5
There is no moral equivalence here. Not even close.
1
When you allow "no-go" zones to fester and grow within your midst it doesn't take long for some people to believe that they can not only make up their own laws but that they can impose their laws and beliefs on others.
Unfortunately, for the Jews of France they are merely the 1st targets of these vicious extremists ...........
Once again, the Jews of France (as well as the rest of Europe) are the proverbial "canaries in the coal mine". And once the extremists achieve their initial goal then they will move on to their next targets of opportunity.
Four million marchers is a good start but the heavy lifting has just begun.
Unfortunately, for the Jews of France they are merely the 1st targets of these vicious extremists ...........
Once again, the Jews of France (as well as the rest of Europe) are the proverbial "canaries in the coal mine". And once the extremists achieve their initial goal then they will move on to their next targets of opportunity.
Four million marchers is a good start but the heavy lifting has just begun.
25
It’s clear to me that not France, but France without Jews-I am not Jewish-and civilization wouldn’t deserve that title if we took Jews out of the human equation.
Our Western Christian civilization is a continuous metamorphosis of Judaism, and we couldn’t be who we are if we didn’t accept our forefathers, our Jewish fathers. We are Jews, the sequel, and should be proud of it. Their suffering through the years, whether as so-called “marrano converts” in Spain and Portugal, or as victims of the Nazi holocaust, is a shameful chapter in our lives. As far as I am concerned, I am not only “Jois Charlie”, I am also “Jois Jewish.” Otherwise my humanity would cease to exist.
It wasn’t only Abraham who climbed Mount Moriah to sacrifice his son, we must climb the mount of understanding to sacrifice our prejudice and I hope we do really sacrifice it.
Our Western Christian civilization is a continuous metamorphosis of Judaism, and we couldn’t be who we are if we didn’t accept our forefathers, our Jewish fathers. We are Jews, the sequel, and should be proud of it. Their suffering through the years, whether as so-called “marrano converts” in Spain and Portugal, or as victims of the Nazi holocaust, is a shameful chapter in our lives. As far as I am concerned, I am not only “Jois Charlie”, I am also “Jois Jewish.” Otherwise my humanity would cease to exist.
It wasn’t only Abraham who climbed Mount Moriah to sacrifice his son, we must climb the mount of understanding to sacrifice our prejudice and I hope we do really sacrifice it.
25
Given the choice between sending their children to school Little Rock-style circa 1954 for the next several years, or sending them to an excellent school in the USA or Israel, many French Jews will chose Israel or the United States. Who would blame them? If French Muslims would form a volunteer squad to provide protection to Jewish institutions in France, that might help turn the tide. But somehow I don't see that happening.
If it does happen, I hope French people remember this: The Jews are the world's canary in the coal mine. The destruction of free societies begins with the Jews, but it never ends with the Jews.
If it does happen, I hope French people remember this: The Jews are the world's canary in the coal mine. The destruction of free societies begins with the Jews, but it never ends with the Jews.
65
This is not entirely about Muslims.
Just a few weeks ago, the French government grudgingly accepted a small measure of responsibility for the transport of Jews to Auschwitz and other Nazi death camps on windowless freight and cattle cars without food or water; where the luckiest of them, including many women, children and elderly people, were gassed upon arrival. And this was only after years of political pressure on them to do so. France has still not made anything approaching a full accounting of the collaboration between themselves and the Nazis. They have a great deal of catching up to do.
Just a few weeks ago, the French government grudgingly accepted a small measure of responsibility for the transport of Jews to Auschwitz and other Nazi death camps on windowless freight and cattle cars without food or water; where the luckiest of them, including many women, children and elderly people, were gassed upon arrival. And this was only after years of political pressure on them to do so. France has still not made anything approaching a full accounting of the collaboration between themselves and the Nazis. They have a great deal of catching up to do.
62
A solemn article desecrated by the unsubstantiated claim that Muslims are fearful. Publish the cartoons nyt show you are not fearful .
29
The new Charlie Hebdo cover page was in the NYT.
Mr. Valls made a very important speech in parlement today. He received four standing ovations by a unanimous assembly. They also sang their national anthem for the first time since 1918.
France is at war.
The army as moved in to protect jewish institutions.What else can a gouvernment do?
France is at war.
The army as moved in to protect jewish institutions.What else can a gouvernment do?
6
There are profound reasons why disaffected youth in France and elsewhere are picking up arms and are ready to propagate heinous crimes on Jews specifically, as well as fellow Muslims and anyone else they see as profound enemies to their newly acquired belief system.
But the results seem to be the same. A violent strain of Anti-Semitism is on the rise under the guise of excuses and justifications such as "Jews are Zionists, so look what they do to Gaza's children" or "Zionists = Jews, they control America which invades and kills thousands of Muslims in the Caliphate".
I do not profess to have a profound solution to this age old conundrum dressed up in its newest form: radical Islam.
But this is far from being a French problem.
I humbly suggest that moderate Muslims around the world - especially those living in western countries - should consider waving the "Je Suis Juif" slogan and all that it implies. This is not an admission of collective guilt, but a measure of self-reflection. Inevitably many Jews will (and should) feel compelled to wave a "Je Suis Muslim" placard to express solidarity and protect the rights and safety of Muslims in our midst.
But the results seem to be the same. A violent strain of Anti-Semitism is on the rise under the guise of excuses and justifications such as "Jews are Zionists, so look what they do to Gaza's children" or "Zionists = Jews, they control America which invades and kills thousands of Muslims in the Caliphate".
I do not profess to have a profound solution to this age old conundrum dressed up in its newest form: radical Islam.
But this is far from being a French problem.
I humbly suggest that moderate Muslims around the world - especially those living in western countries - should consider waving the "Je Suis Juif" slogan and all that it implies. This is not an admission of collective guilt, but a measure of self-reflection. Inevitably many Jews will (and should) feel compelled to wave a "Je Suis Muslim" placard to express solidarity and protect the rights and safety of Muslims in our midst.
22
One can not let fear drive one's life but still living in a hostile culture makes immigration to greener pastures appealing. France has a serious problem. You have Islamic fundamentalists living in a pluralistic society. Extreme Islam has no tolerance for diversity or "infidels". Religious intolerance goes back thousands of years. There are no signs of religious persecution and violence ever abating as most men never learn from history. An effort can be made to teach pluralism and tolerance. From the bottom of my heart I've never understood antisemitism. But again I see religion and culture as a personal matter worthy of respect.
6
What do you call this editorial, setting the stage for future plausible deniability?
When, for example, Hamas, or some other extremists, do to Israel something along the lines of what happened in France, and the Times subsequently lambasts the Israelis for not conceding, not coddling, not surrendering to, well, uh, a different, hmm, group.
The fact is, what happened in France is no different than the hate crimes perpetrated against Israelis in Israel.
Because, for one very important reason, all muslim extremists claim to get their marching orders from the same exact guiding light, the Holy Quran.
And failure to connect the dots on the basis of some oblique secular point of view is far from grounds for plausible deniability. And speaking of connected dots,
Not only is Israel not Israel without jews, but Palestine is not Palestine without free, proud, and fully enfranchised jews.
When, for example, Hamas, or some other extremists, do to Israel something along the lines of what happened in France, and the Times subsequently lambasts the Israelis for not conceding, not coddling, not surrendering to, well, uh, a different, hmm, group.
The fact is, what happened in France is no different than the hate crimes perpetrated against Israelis in Israel.
Because, for one very important reason, all muslim extremists claim to get their marching orders from the same exact guiding light, the Holy Quran.
And failure to connect the dots on the basis of some oblique secular point of view is far from grounds for plausible deniability. And speaking of connected dots,
Not only is Israel not Israel without jews, but Palestine is not Palestine without free, proud, and fully enfranchised jews.
26
The march in Paris was meaningless theater. Jews are not leaving because of the recent murders; they are leaving because every day they are afraid to walk French streets. Any outward sign of being Jewish not only makes a Jew a target, but the police will tell the Jew he is guilty of incitement.
More indicative of French attitudes is designation of Marwan Barghouti, a convicted murderer serving 5 consecutive life terms for killing Israelis, as an honorary citizen of Aubervilliers. There is no doubt about his guilt. Judges, not jurors, convicted Barghouti, not a conviction based on hype as you might find in the US, but on the evidence. For some Frenchmen a Jew killer is still as it was in the Holocaust, a hero! Only days ago the French supported a UN resolution calling for the creation of a Palestinian state, which like Gaza could easily be run by Hamas and dedicated to the destruction of the State of Israel. In both these cases the French support those who have or are interested in killing JEWS! As during the Holocaust and the murders last week the French prefer the murder of Jews take place elsewhere, but harassment and attacks on Jews go on daily.
The French can march every day against terrorism, but what they are really saying is the French are against terrorism on French soil. Only Jews are targeted; the others could be anyone. Three years ago Jews were also targeted. Neither Catholics nor Muslims were targeted. In France when murder is the intent kill the Jew.
More indicative of French attitudes is designation of Marwan Barghouti, a convicted murderer serving 5 consecutive life terms for killing Israelis, as an honorary citizen of Aubervilliers. There is no doubt about his guilt. Judges, not jurors, convicted Barghouti, not a conviction based on hype as you might find in the US, but on the evidence. For some Frenchmen a Jew killer is still as it was in the Holocaust, a hero! Only days ago the French supported a UN resolution calling for the creation of a Palestinian state, which like Gaza could easily be run by Hamas and dedicated to the destruction of the State of Israel. In both these cases the French support those who have or are interested in killing JEWS! As during the Holocaust and the murders last week the French prefer the murder of Jews take place elsewhere, but harassment and attacks on Jews go on daily.
The French can march every day against terrorism, but what they are really saying is the French are against terrorism on French soil. Only Jews are targeted; the others could be anyone. Three years ago Jews were also targeted. Neither Catholics nor Muslims were targeted. In France when murder is the intent kill the Jew.
44
The dilemma for many French Jews is that their children are targets. What would you do?
24
Wait, am I getting this right? The Times is lecturing Jews on going to Israel? The same newspaper who is too afraid to publish Charlie Hebdo's muhammad cartoon? The same newspaper who takes such a "principled" stand on free speech? The same newspaper that is nauseatingly obsequious to the multi-culture pieties that have created this situation for the Jews in the first place?
145
A nice, if not belated sentiment for France, which voted only a short while ago to give shrift to the progenitors of the modern terror movement, the Palestinians. It is no wonder Jews France are beyond paranoid. You can't coddle terrorists and then attempt to mollify their victims. "They sow the wind and reap the whirlwind. The stalk has no head; it will produce no flour. Were it to yield grain, foreigners would swallow it up. "
19
Margaret Thatcher did not negotiate with terrorists. Later, people addressed the terrorists legitimate grievances, and peace broke out.
3
Lies, lies and more lies. The Irgun and Stern gang were responses to the Arab gangs terrorizing Jews in Israel. Only a fool like you and the editorial board of the NYT would say sticks and stones ... Others believe in protecting themselves and making it so expensive to kill Jews that others think twice about it.
3
I wonder if France has ever come to terms with its own antisemitism? You don't have to go back to Dreyfus or even Vichy--though they should be revisited to understand how deeply the disease goes. Of course, our own racism goes even deeper. The only thing I can say to our mini-credit is that many of know that and say it out loud frequently. I'm not sure the French ever look at themselves and think: we need to change.
15
Interesting and denigrating choice of language by Andrew Brooke: "cower, betrayal, abandon". I believe my parents did all that when they left Germany in 1934. Fortunately.
25
Amazingly a France without Jews is exactly what the French tried to achieve during the Holocaust.
31
And ironically if it wasn't for the Dreyfus Affair in the 1894-1906 in which a loyal Jewish officer in the French army was wrongly convicted of treason and sentenced to life to rot away on Devil's Island, the modern Zionist movement would not have been sparked. That was the last straw for many assimilated Jews of the Enlightenment who had thought Progressivism would put an end to Jew-hate -- years before a nation considered the most advanced and educated on Earth murdered 6 million Jews. Just perusing the comments in these blogs from many NY Times readers presumably progressives spouting AIPAC conspiracies to control the US government, or accusing Israel of willful genocide or suggesting everything would be fine if Israel just picked up and left no questions asked from the West Bank as it did from Gaza with little right to defend itself, makes you wonder if the world has really learned anything.
18
Three years ago, my son spent his junior year of college in Paris. He is an observant Jew and was advised by his French compatriots not to wear his kippah (yamulka) out in public. To do so was dangerous. It's a sad day when, once again, European Jews have to hide who they are in public.
Here in the western suburbs of Boston, I often wear necklaces with Jewish symbols as I go about my daily business. I have never been made to feel uncomfortable by any of the local people (presumably Christians) whom I encounter.
I love France in many ways, but my Jewish soul much prefers the USA. (Nor do I prefer Israel, but that's another discussion.)
Here in the western suburbs of Boston, I often wear necklaces with Jewish symbols as I go about my daily business. I have never been made to feel uncomfortable by any of the local people (presumably Christians) whom I encounter.
I love France in many ways, but my Jewish soul much prefers the USA. (Nor do I prefer Israel, but that's another discussion.)
27
You feel safe here !
2
These are wonderful sentiments Editorial Board, but channeling my inner Bill Maher, I'd love to respond with his famous [unprintable] expletive. In fact the French tried to have a France without Jews and those who question this assertion really need to read Ronald Rosbottom's book, "When Paris Went Dark - The City of Light Under German Occupation 1940-1944." Rosbottom demonstrates with innumerable examples that while there were a number of people who tried to help French Jews, there were many more quite happy to say "Bye bye Jews," and then help themselves to Jewish art and property. The singular largest roundup of French Jews, the Grand Rafle of 1942 in which more than 13,000 Jews in Paris were arrested and sent to camps, was conducted ENTIRELY by French policemen - there was not a German uniform in sight. Given a choice between sanctimony and history, I'll take my chances relying on history every time.
64
The sub-head for this story, "After Paris Attack, Many Jews Question Their Future in France," serves no purpose other than to make non-Jewish French people question the loyalty of the French Jewish community, thereby exacerbating the isolation of those Jews who do contemplate emigrating to anywhere.
Worse, it is of very dubious accuracy. Similar to another Times story today, "Fear on Rise, Jews in France Weigh an Exit," it is not supported by any demonstrable facts. If even Natan Sharansky's optimistic and self-serving estimate is correct, only 10% of the French Jewish population is seriously considering emigration to Israel in coming years. That merits a title saying, at most, "After Paris Attack, Some Jews Question Their Future in France."
Just what is the basis for the editorial's reference to "many Jews?" Do they base their conclusion on reliable data, on reputable surveys, or are they merely relying on the word of (largely self-appointed) spokespeople and the likely minority of French Jews who live in "Jewish neighborhoods?"
Would the Times say "Many Mexicans question their future in Mexico" because millions came here? Did they say many Americans question their future in the U.S., when some left during the Viet Nam War and a few during the Bush years?
And, if the editorial is about Jews, why is the accompanying photo of a French Jew who, by way of dress, is distinguished from other French citizens, rather than the majority of Jews, who look like anybody else?
Worse, it is of very dubious accuracy. Similar to another Times story today, "Fear on Rise, Jews in France Weigh an Exit," it is not supported by any demonstrable facts. If even Natan Sharansky's optimistic and self-serving estimate is correct, only 10% of the French Jewish population is seriously considering emigration to Israel in coming years. That merits a title saying, at most, "After Paris Attack, Some Jews Question Their Future in France."
Just what is the basis for the editorial's reference to "many Jews?" Do they base their conclusion on reliable data, on reputable surveys, or are they merely relying on the word of (largely self-appointed) spokespeople and the likely minority of French Jews who live in "Jewish neighborhoods?"
Would the Times say "Many Mexicans question their future in Mexico" because millions came here? Did they say many Americans question their future in the U.S., when some left during the Viet Nam War and a few during the Bush years?
And, if the editorial is about Jews, why is the accompanying photo of a French Jew who, by way of dress, is distinguished from other French citizens, rather than the majority of Jews, who look like anybody else?
16
The jews of france have plenty to fear from the french. The saying in europe after the war was, "if it hadnt been the germans it would have been the french" the french (along with most of Europe) have a long and cherished history of kicking jews around.
When you have a victim that wont fight back you keep kicking him.
Jews everywhere should be armed to the teeth. If theyre ever going to be left alone it will be because of force of arms.
When you have a victim that wont fight back you keep kicking him.
Jews everywhere should be armed to the teeth. If theyre ever going to be left alone it will be because of force of arms.
23
That would be a keen observation, were it supported by observable facts. See the French soldiers in the picture accompanying the article? They are there protecting the Jewish population. As well they should.
3
He is talking about the past, not the present so the soldiers today are not relevant to his point. As for observable facts, what do you want, footnotes?
4
In the "flat earth" reality that is the new normal, the entire world has a responsibility to make sure that all who are oppresed have champions that will ensure that bigotry will no longer be acceptable. That is easier said than done. It appears that France is their champion when the US only offfers platitudes of " we stand with you."
2
But wouldn't the French Jews, and those who cherish free expression and freedom of thought and religion, also have plenty to fear in the United States?
From the American newspaper of record unwilling to publish caricatures lest Muslim extremists be offended, to the imposition of Christian religion precepts in the Red States, there is much to fear right here in the United States as well.
From the American newspaper of record unwilling to publish caricatures lest Muslim extremists be offended, to the imposition of Christian religion precepts in the Red States, there is much to fear right here in the United States as well.
11
Anti-Semitism among the Muslim populations in France and Germany may be reaching epidemic proportions. Until this is openly addressed by political leaders nothing will change. Just think about it ... some 5,000 police and/or soldiers to protect Jewish schools and businesses. This should be shocking to the average person. For years, there has always been a police presence at almost all of the synagogues in Germany on the Sabbath and Jewish holidays. So far as I know, there is still a notable exception to this which I shall leave unnamed. I certainly have not noticed the same police presence in front of Catholic and Protestant churches, or in front of every mosque. Bottom line ... anti-Semitism is thriving.
58
I am Jewish and live in France. While 7000 Jews have left France recently, there are still 500,000+ of us living in a vibrant and marvelously free culture. I've never felt apart. For better or for worse, we've been an integral part of France for centuries. Remember, Dreyfus was at first condemned and then redeemed with honors. Remember that while France deported 75,000 to German camps, 300,000 were protected, more than any other European country occupied by the Nazis. Remember, France had 2 Jewish PMs, Leon Blum and Pierre Mendez-France. When has the US had a Jewish president?
I work with many Muslim colleages in the arts. After 9/11, I performed with Arabs, Israelis, Muslims, Jews, Christians and athiests in an Orchestra for Peace all over France. I feel supported by them when acts of nihilistic violence are commited against us. Just as I support them when racist fools attack mosques, or when all muslims are equated with terrorists. Yes, this is my France, the solidarity of 4,000,000 marching for slain journalists, policemen and Jews.
Like Claude Lanzmann, I stand side by side with my fellow citizens in defense of our rights of expression and the strong separation of church and state that represents the best of French democracy. Sure there is tremendous work to do. I know there will be more tradegies, nobody is naive. This is home, this is my country and history. And, yes, like most of my Jewish compatriots, I'm staying put. Why doesn't the Times write about that?!
I work with many Muslim colleages in the arts. After 9/11, I performed with Arabs, Israelis, Muslims, Jews, Christians and athiests in an Orchestra for Peace all over France. I feel supported by them when acts of nihilistic violence are commited against us. Just as I support them when racist fools attack mosques, or when all muslims are equated with terrorists. Yes, this is my France, the solidarity of 4,000,000 marching for slain journalists, policemen and Jews.
Like Claude Lanzmann, I stand side by side with my fellow citizens in defense of our rights of expression and the strong separation of church and state that represents the best of French democracy. Sure there is tremendous work to do. I know there will be more tradegies, nobody is naive. This is home, this is my country and history. And, yes, like most of my Jewish compatriots, I'm staying put. Why doesn't the Times write about that?!
469
Mr Feldman,
Like you I am Jewish and have lived for extended periods in various French cities: Rennes, Grenoble, Paris. Rennes is a marvelous city and the "old city", particularly rue de Chapitre, where I lived for four months in 1976 is wonderful.
Bonne chance!!
Like you I am Jewish and have lived for extended periods in various French cities: Rennes, Grenoble, Paris. Rennes is a marvelous city and the "old city", particularly rue de Chapitre, where I lived for four months in 1976 is wonderful.
Bonne chance!!
10
Substitute "Germany" for "France" in your Polyanna-ish post, and you will be saying the same kinds of things that German Jews said before the Holocaust. Good luck; you'll need it.
19
Great, Marc. Take a few days to walk around Paris or Marseilles or Toulouse wearing a visible Jewish star or kippah. Then please report back on how things are going.
19
Please-an exodus of Jews would suit the attackers just fine? How about if that maxim had been urged on Jews considering leaving Germany in the early 1930s while they still could - what? You want the Nazis to win? The fact is that not only in France but throughout Europe, huge influxes of Muslims are driving anti-Semitism. Jews are massively outnumbered in these countries: UK: 3 million Muslims, 300,000 Jews. Anti-Semitism is rising even across Scandinavia, especially Sweden, where Malmo is now considered totally unsafe for Jews. These ratios aren't going to change: they are going to get worse. The situation in the Middle East isn't going to change much, thus, neither are Muslim attitudes. Should Jews remain in Europe just to satisfy a pious intellectual meme from the editorial Board of the New York TIMES, safe in their ivory towers in New York City? No. Europe's Jews are foolish if they fall for this again. It is not going to "blow over". The Muslim populations of Europe will continue to grow. Europe's Jews this time should read the handwriting on the wall much earlier: get out while you can. Go to America or Israel. Europe has had long enough to get it right with its Jews. Its record is poor; it's failing again. Pack up and go for your grandchildren's sakes.
105
France losing Jews to Israel, may be a loss to France but it would certainly be a gain for Israel. Just like the 800,000 Jewish refugees it took in fleeing persecution from Arab countries suffering retribution for Israel's victory in 1948.
Just think, if the Arab countries had any sense, they would have affirmed their respect and love for their Jewish citizens, families who had been living there for centuries. Instead, they were too stupid. They drove out almost a million Jews, and Israel's population almost doubled overnight.
Just think, if the Arab countries had any sense, they would have affirmed their respect and love for their Jewish citizens, families who had been living there for centuries. Instead, they were too stupid. They drove out almost a million Jews, and Israel's population almost doubled overnight.
20
The billions of Islamist s understand that if Israel disarms and declares peace with the surrounding Arab nations as they did in 1948, Israel and all the Jews living in Israel will suffer larger wars of annihilation as were attempted by all the neighboring Arab States and their Israeli Arab allies in 1948, 1950's, 1967, 1973 and smaller actions from Gaza and Lebanon thereafter along with guerrilla warfare during the Infetadas.
If the Arabs and Islamists in the middle east declared peace and put down their arms, there would be for the first time, Peace in and around Israel.
If the Arabs and Islamists in the middle east declared peace and put down their arms, there would be for the first time, Peace in and around Israel.
18
Make no mistake, French jews do feel they are under siege for the first time in a long time. Jewish people have been in France for some 1000 years. That's as French as it gets.
The French minister's comments are welcome and the govt. seems to be doing all it can to make them feel safe. Netanyahu's hijacking of this event to make it about Israel is not in the least helpful to France's integrity as a secular, liberal nation, and they should shun him.
French jews should stand their ground and stake their claim to their motherland, France to not to Israel.
The French minister's comments are welcome and the govt. seems to be doing all it can to make them feel safe. Netanyahu's hijacking of this event to make it about Israel is not in the least helpful to France's integrity as a secular, liberal nation, and they should shun him.
French jews should stand their ground and stake their claim to their motherland, France to not to Israel.
15
Times and circumstances shift like sand, one year is safe here, the next year not. Maimonides and contemporaries felt very at home in southern Spain, but the fanatical Almohads drove Jews out of that region, and parts of North Africa. His life, residences, and written masterpieces reflected the necessary relocations in order to survive. Later, of course, the Inquisition drove Jews permanently out of Spain entirely. Families who lived there for generations and felt integral to that country. If France is unable, even with great effort, to reclaim their country from the siege of fanatical haters -it's not the govt. driving out the Jews, and others -then it would be insane, and thus unFrench, to remain. Motherland is ultimately defined by security, not geography.
19
The French government promised the same thing after the Toulouse murders with the results we all saw over the summer and last week. Perhaps now that the French realize that the targets have expanded from Jews to non-Jews who offend the jihadists' sensibilities, something more will be done going forward.
Recent events have, sadly, again proven the truth of what seems to be an iron rule of History: what starts with the Jews doesn't end with the Jews.
Recent events have, sadly, again proven the truth of what seems to be an iron rule of History: what starts with the Jews doesn't end with the Jews.
45
So there are folks in France who hate Jews.... so what? There are folks in France who hate Muslims.... so what? There are folks in every nation who hate people because of their religion, because of their race, because of their ethnicity, because of.... One could go on and on. So what? No matter who you are someone hates you for some stupid reason. So what? Are people the world over going to run because they might -- possibly -- maybe -- someday -- be attacked by someone who hates them? Is King Fear now our ruler, dictating where we may live and who we can be? Sorry. Anyone who runs because a few nuts kill some innocents is destined to live alone. And to die alone. The world has always had haters and just because 12 people were killed last week is a really dumb reason to run.
5
Your letter is mystifying. Do you really think last week's murders stand alone, unrelated to any pathology?
If so, you may be the only person in the world who thinks so. People are scared and angry and revolted and despairing because of the aggregate of violent acts perpetrated by terrorists in the last decade, nearly all of whom espouse the same blind and heinous "motivation".
If so, you may be the only person in the world who thinks so. People are scared and angry and revolted and despairing because of the aggregate of violent acts perpetrated by terrorists in the last decade, nearly all of whom espouse the same blind and heinous "motivation".
13
I agree with Bill. But I also think that the French Jews who leave France for Israel will be back in France inside of a year, if not a week. I hope the media covers their mass return as avidly as it covers their mass exodus.
6
I'm very surprised at the NYT Editorial Board. What a loaded statement and title that is sure to get a rise! Without a doubt, what happened recently in Paris is totally horrific, but this is not the time to appear even more divisive. Most certainly Jews have as much reason to fear living in France as does everyone else! -- and that includes Moderate Muslims who are mistaken for being part of this madness, just because they happen to be part of the same community -- Don't forget WHO hid several Jewish customers in that Kosher store that came under attack!! -- He was a Muslim and he was Black.
Another thing, Anti-Semitism is nothing new in France, or in the rest of Europe for that matter, it has been around for centuries, just like the hateful prejudices that have befallen other groups throughout human history. And if Jews decide to stay or leave, France will be France -- and there will always be France!
Another thing, Anti-Semitism is nothing new in France, or in the rest of Europe for that matter, it has been around for centuries, just like the hateful prejudices that have befallen other groups throughout human history. And if Jews decide to stay or leave, France will be France -- and there will always be France!
11
The Jews of France and the rest of Europe should be fearful indeed. Anti-Semitism, made respectable under the guise of anti-Zionism, is evident all over the continent and in Britain as well. At present the only sanctuaries are Israel and the U.S. European Jewry would be well-advised to re-read the history of the run-up to the Holocaust and be proactive when considering its long-term safety.
48
I would say Canada and Australia are still good places, too.
1
French Jews died in large number during WWII. What did the NYTimes know and when did it know it? Furthermore, how did the NYTimes plan to solve the displaced persons (DP) problem after WWII and the ousting of the Jews from the Arab nations (which the Times *did* report). Editorial Board, speak from secure knowledge that your paper has not always done the right thing for Jews.
39
They still won't acknowledge the worst hate crime against Jews in US history, Crown Heights although they have no problem referring to any and all white on black violence as such. The refusal to acknowledge these crimes may be less anti Jewish than pro-left/Muslim/black sympathies. If these crimes were committed by right wing white hate groups there would be very different reporting and no articles bemoaning the sad plight of the hapless perps.
10
A robust criticism of Benjamin Netanyahu's divisive statements about the citizenship and loyalties of French Jews would have made this editorial more meaningful. No wonder French leaders didn't want him in France. Israeli politicians seeking more immigration, terrorists, and French anti-semities are all spewing the same rhetoric, as if they're on the same page.
"Leave France"
"Yes, come to Israel, you are one of us, not them"
We need to hear from moderate Jewish diaspora leaders willing to condemn Netanyahu's dangerous rhetoric. This rhetoric undermines diaspora Jews around the world, not just in France.
"Leave France"
"Yes, come to Israel, you are one of us, not them"
We need to hear from moderate Jewish diaspora leaders willing to condemn Netanyahu's dangerous rhetoric. This rhetoric undermines diaspora Jews around the world, not just in France.
23
oh come on now,,,,put the blame where the blame belongs....on those who murder and condemn, not those who offer a new home. this is really a stretch!
30
Jews were again murdered in France for being Jews and the anti-Semites want more criticism of a Jewish leader who stands up for them.
3
European history is littered with anti-Semitic violence, murder, pillage and scapegoating. Blaming Muslims solely is problematic, as many French non Muslims see a level of justification in this collective punishment by blaming Israel for how Jews in France are treated. This is obviously a front for deep seated hatred that has nothing to do with Israel. All it takes is a quick glance at a rally for Gaza, as French nationals proudly wear Nazi memorabilia, display blatantly racist caricatures of Jews and threaten to destroy their property.
40
So, the goal of the terrorists is to scare French Jews into leaving France, and the result is they immigrate to Israel, to which a record 7,000 re-settled last year alone. The the Muslim world, and anti-Zionists worldwide, including President Jimmy Carter and that silly BBC reporter, blame Israel's stubborn insistence on daring to exist and resist, for fomenting extremism in the Muslim world. The Jews simply cannot win, can they. As Amos Oz famously and sardonically observed, "my father left Poland in reaction to the calls, Zyd do Palestina" and now the Palestinians insist we go back to Poland.
62
A very disappointing editorial. Far worse than Americas snub of the march in France, your opinion negates that which it was really about. This is not a Jewish story. Unless you are prepared to discuss cartoonists, Muslim cops and most importantly regular citizens, please refrain from writing about that which you don't seem to understand.
11
It is in part very much a Jewish story. And the Board understands it is alienating some (I think spiteful) people. Too bad.
20
"There's not a black America and white America and Latino America and Asian America; there's the United States of America." — Barack Obama, 2004
Sadly this dream is falling apart all around the world.
Sadly this dream is falling apart all around the world.
8
Today's NY Times editorial has noble well written sentiments.
But, expressions of solidarity will only go so far.
It will take concerted action to make France (and the rest of Europe) a place where freedom of expression and religion are truly present. and where Jews are comfortable.
The first step is not an expression of solidarity but acknowledgement of the root cause of the current danger- a small minority of Moslems who are radical murderers. The murders in France were the result of Radical Islamic Terrorism. There is no rationale of excuse for their murder of civilians. The problem must be acknowledged for what it is and dealt with aggressively. The Times has been reluctant to even acknowledge the problem and ascribe it to a strain within Islam. It has resisted supporting measures to deal with terror and excused murder by ascribing it to "legitimate" complaints. European Jews and civilization do not need expressions of support - they need the Times to stop denying reality.
But, expressions of solidarity will only go so far.
It will take concerted action to make France (and the rest of Europe) a place where freedom of expression and religion are truly present. and where Jews are comfortable.
The first step is not an expression of solidarity but acknowledgement of the root cause of the current danger- a small minority of Moslems who are radical murderers. The murders in France were the result of Radical Islamic Terrorism. There is no rationale of excuse for their murder of civilians. The problem must be acknowledged for what it is and dealt with aggressively. The Times has been reluctant to even acknowledge the problem and ascribe it to a strain within Islam. It has resisted supporting measures to deal with terror and excused murder by ascribing it to "legitimate" complaints. European Jews and civilization do not need expressions of support - they need the Times to stop denying reality.
11
They still haven't acknowledged the Crown Heights pogrom in this country and it was over 20 years ago. I wouldn't hold my breath!
11
"Hateful", while true, does not go far enough. The attacks were despicable and cowardly.
5
Sadly there are many people in France who would love to give Hitler a victory. It is impossible to give a part of the populace constant police protection. And in any case, what kind of life is that? Life should be mostly normal. If you need constant police protection doing just normal daily stuff, your life is not normal and cannot be normal. The European elites have worked hard for decades to bring about this state of affairs. They hate Israel and Israelis and that hate easily morphs into anti-Semitism. It's not just in France. Here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISXgCRDIr1w#t=11
is a disgusting interview by a reporter for the BBC, telling the daughter of a Holocaust survivor that "Palestinians suffered hugely at Jewish hands" so shouldn't she have expected the killings? A reporter for the BBC! It's so bad in Europe that the BBC employs rank anti-Semites and broadcasts their drivel. It's not just France, but the U.K., Holland, where a high-ranking rabbi is leaving due to constant harassment; Sweden in Malmo where Jews are not welcome; Denmark where Jews have asked the government for protection. This is a situation welcomed by European elites who now, when it's way too late, shed crocodile tears for the victims. My prediction: Within 5 years most Jews will have left Europe. And then Europe as a whole can enjoy the fate of Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union when their Jews fled. Stagnation and collapse. I for one won't shed any tears.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISXgCRDIr1w#t=11
is a disgusting interview by a reporter for the BBC, telling the daughter of a Holocaust survivor that "Palestinians suffered hugely at Jewish hands" so shouldn't she have expected the killings? A reporter for the BBC! It's so bad in Europe that the BBC employs rank anti-Semites and broadcasts their drivel. It's not just France, but the U.K., Holland, where a high-ranking rabbi is leaving due to constant harassment; Sweden in Malmo where Jews are not welcome; Denmark where Jews have asked the government for protection. This is a situation welcomed by European elites who now, when it's way too late, shed crocodile tears for the victims. My prediction: Within 5 years most Jews will have left Europe. And then Europe as a whole can enjoy the fate of Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union when their Jews fled. Stagnation and collapse. I for one won't shed any tears.
49
Additionally, what the French government fears now is the massive transfer and exodus of wealth out of France in the embodiment of Jewish corporations and businesses, as well as other potential targeted people and businesses. They have reacted too late to this disaster, and sadly while it was just the Jews being subjected to jihadi actions, the government did not feel compelled to step in, but the Charlie Hebdo murders demonstrated otherwise and that defending France's very liberties is also on the line. If "I am Jewish" had been a sentiment carried by officials within the French government, the steps to jail or strip citizenship away from Kouachi brothers, and deport (or at least strongly monitor them) after such vile testimony as you quote here, may have been taken to avert the tragedies of last week. France has been awoken by the crow of the jihadi rooster….the challenge will be not to fall asleep again, or chicken out.
15
The Muslim extremists want to recreate the Caliphate of the Ottoman Empire before WWI. Different segments are working their way through Africa (Nigeria, Mali, etc.), Middle East (Syria, Yemen, Iraq, etc.) so why wouldn't Jews feel threatened? All infidels are to be killed, women and children returned to property status and worst. We should all be in fear. Most likely, most Jews feel that they are French and have been part of the French fabric. But the Jews of Germany felt the same way. Next the Catholics, etc. Let us deal with reality and not judge them by our Judeo-Christian beliefs. They are not looking for democracy but the very opposite.
21
It was not an attack on Jews that brought out thousands of people— it was an attack on a magazine followed by an attack on a kosher supermarket by someone who sympathized with those who attacked the magazine. There have been several attacks in Jews on account of their being jewish in France in the last thirty years, and though those attacks do not reflect the sentiments of the French, they did not bring out any great or sustained amount of sympathy or concern either. Jews like everyone else seek security, and that is what Israel gives them when they can find it nowhere else. If it takes the wake of an attack on a magazine for France to promise" that all French citizens can count on government protection of their places of worship" then anyone who reasonably fears such an attack is not cowardly, as the editorial implies, for leaving for safer shores.
37
The thought, barely two generations from the Holocaust, that Jews in a western European country would feel compelled to again leave their homes to avoid violence and anti-Semitism has not been commented upon enough.
How can this be?
How can this be?
128
G7 democracies will have to meld police state models, into their model of immigration . Not a simple task. Jews have to weigh how western democracies will tolerate their being singled ou,t against can these Democracies protect them. Currently only the US and Canada pose no risk for Jewish enclaves. Israel requires military service, and ever so often an attack by neighboring Muslims. Russia and China remain not interested with the issue. That leaves 5 eyes as the only option for Jews other than Israel and conflict on a scheduled basis.
5
West’s Anti-Israel Propaganda Encourages Terror...
The West’s progressive circles have been waging an incitement campaign against Israel and Zionism for several years now. Many of the West’s media outlets define what Israel is doing to the Palestinians in general, and in Gaza in particular, as genocide, crimes against humanity and an intentional murder of children and civilians.
Blatant statements against Zionism, Jews and Israel, which usually include blatant and intimidating lies, are considered part of the circle of enlightenment and progress. They are given a platform in newspapers which are considered to be serious. (Including this one)
In the Independent newspaper, Israel was labeled as “a community of child killers.” According to the Newsweek website, Jews endanger world peace.
The average Muslim viewer asks himself, rightfully, how are Western countries letting this crime go on. Why aren’t there much more sanctions against Israel? Why is the United States bombing the Islamic State rather than Israel? Why are economic ties between Israel and Western countries only growing stronger?
Considering the lies being presented in many of the leading media outlets
about these unstoppable crimes, these questions are correct.
http://honestreporting.com/recommended-reading-wests-anti-israel-propaga...
The West’s progressive circles have been waging an incitement campaign against Israel and Zionism for several years now. Many of the West’s media outlets define what Israel is doing to the Palestinians in general, and in Gaza in particular, as genocide, crimes against humanity and an intentional murder of children and civilians.
Blatant statements against Zionism, Jews and Israel, which usually include blatant and intimidating lies, are considered part of the circle of enlightenment and progress. They are given a platform in newspapers which are considered to be serious. (Including this one)
In the Independent newspaper, Israel was labeled as “a community of child killers.” According to the Newsweek website, Jews endanger world peace.
The average Muslim viewer asks himself, rightfully, how are Western countries letting this crime go on. Why aren’t there much more sanctions against Israel? Why is the United States bombing the Islamic State rather than Israel? Why are economic ties between Israel and Western countries only growing stronger?
Considering the lies being presented in many of the leading media outlets
about these unstoppable crimes, these questions are correct.
http://honestreporting.com/recommended-reading-wests-anti-israel-propaga...
34
Lanzmann's quote owes its inspiration to Emil Fackenheim who taught that the in the Holocaust was revealed Judaism's 614th commandment: that it is forbidden to grant Hitler posthumous victories. We should not grant extremists of any sort the victories they seek. Moderates must prevail. There are more of us.
9
Despite the implied snarky criticism that Netanyahu is feeding into the terrorists wishes he is right.
Israel is a Jewish homeland because there is a need for a Jewish homeland. The Holocaust taught us that lesson well and every once in a while we get a painful reminder of that hard won truth.
At the end of the day French Jews can look forward to sympathetic clucking, and emotionally fickle "shows" of popular support when they have deposited enough bloodshed to earn another round of temporary relief from the thinly veiled, well mannered hate, or they can vote with their feet and go home. For better or worse at least they will be home among their own as part of the collective destiny of our people.
What will happen to France once it is "Judinriene?" I suspect life will go on. Maybe they will also start selling the little wooden good-luck Jew dolls with the long noses and coins in their fists that I hear have become popular now in Jew free Poland as a bitter sweet nostalgic relic of all the rollicking anti-semitic fun of times gone by.
Israel is a Jewish homeland because there is a need for a Jewish homeland. The Holocaust taught us that lesson well and every once in a while we get a painful reminder of that hard won truth.
At the end of the day French Jews can look forward to sympathetic clucking, and emotionally fickle "shows" of popular support when they have deposited enough bloodshed to earn another round of temporary relief from the thinly veiled, well mannered hate, or they can vote with their feet and go home. For better or worse at least they will be home among their own as part of the collective destiny of our people.
What will happen to France once it is "Judinriene?" I suspect life will go on. Maybe they will also start selling the little wooden good-luck Jew dolls with the long noses and coins in their fists that I hear have become popular now in Jew free Poland as a bitter sweet nostalgic relic of all the rollicking anti-semitic fun of times gone by.
52
Mazel tov on the editorial. It does take some courage to "pen" these words, as I can attest to how many commenters to this site, over time, have vented some outrageous, deceitful and/or nasty comments not just on Israel, but at those of us who are Jewish. Both for the "crime" of supporting Israel, and the "sin" of feeling victimized, and thus feeling "special" or "privileged"; i.e., hated simply for who we are. An editorial that highlights why Jews, and not just in France, feel threatened and need extra protection goes a long way in assuring us we aren't forgotten by the press; this position didn't exist in Europe in the 30s, let alone the infamous 40s. If French Jews are ever targeted again, G-d forbid, it's time for the majority non-Jews to sport Je suis Juif buttons. Once the Jews leave, who are the next victims?
46
The Jews throughout the world are like the canaries in the mine: come for them, and be sure they will come for everyone. Israelis have known this for decades. We are only now catching up to the reality of a dangerous Muslim philosophy: If you are not one of us, you deserve to be killed.
80
As seems to be the case with most western media, this editorial focuses only on the 'big ticket' antisemitic news items from France. No mention is made of French Jews being the victims of home invasion with rape, kidnapping and torture, or any of the other 'lesser' crimes, all of which according to the testimony of the perpetrators was SPECIFICALLY directed towards Jews (a quick Google search should suffice anyone demanding that I provide a 'citation').
It is these 'less newsworthy' crimes, and their increasingly frequent occurrence, that underlies the fears of French Jews. And, I am afraid that they also underlie their motivation to emigrate.
It is these 'less newsworthy' crimes, and their increasingly frequent occurrence, that underlies the fears of French Jews. And, I am afraid that they also underlie their motivation to emigrate.
79
My father, grandmother and uncle fled France before they could be deported to concentration camps. But many of my father's family members were not so lucky. My cousin, whose grandparents were murdered by the Nazi's during the occupation of France, moved from Paris to Israel last year. The resurgence of antisemitism and violence against Jews in France is shocking. But it does not justify the anti-immigrant and intolerant backlash promulgated by Marie Le Pen. The French government must protect the security and safety of the Jewish community in France and make sure that tolerance and respect for all is a foundation of French society.
25
Anti-Semitism is real and strong especially in paris.
Not all muslims might not want to blow public places up and kill innocent people. But growing up in a muslim country and knowing a lot of muslims in NYC always tell me how much they hate the west and the Jews.
Now the reason for this being is i have a dark skin tone so they think im muslim myself so they quickly open up, and the hatred comes out.
Not all muslims might not want to blow public places up and kill innocent people. But growing up in a muslim country and knowing a lot of muslims in NYC always tell me how much they hate the west and the Jews.
Now the reason for this being is i have a dark skin tone so they think im muslim myself so they quickly open up, and the hatred comes out.
55
10000 soldiers cannot guard Jewish institutions forever. Perhaps the Times might reconsider its implacable opposition to the private ownership of firearms and the carry of such for self-defense. Perhaps it could be suggested for the French. Perhaps you might recall the Colorado church where a private citizen acting as security for the church stopped a rampage shooter. Or Dr. Lee Silverman who stopped a rampage with his personal fireman?
Now the Times editoral board (didn't one of the Times owning family have a hard to get NY concealed carry permit ) and some Jewish leaders will denounce this idea as crazy. But that is the mindset of those who refused to believe the Holocaust would happen.
In times such as this - one needs to take personal responsibility to be able to defend oneself, if capable. The state should not block the possession of the efficacious means of self-defense. Nor should the Times have an editorial board of nervous nellies who cannot conceive of acting in their own defense. I note they are happy to have police risk their lives for their high salaried life styles but they won't act to protect themselves or let others do so.
The majority of states allow carrying of firearms. The doyens of the Times seem to have missed that.
It makes sense for Jews to move to Israel or the USA (as suggested in other editorials elsewhere). Perhaps some of my family should have taken the advice to leave Austria when my parents suggested that. They died
Now the Times editoral board (didn't one of the Times owning family have a hard to get NY concealed carry permit ) and some Jewish leaders will denounce this idea as crazy. But that is the mindset of those who refused to believe the Holocaust would happen.
In times such as this - one needs to take personal responsibility to be able to defend oneself, if capable. The state should not block the possession of the efficacious means of self-defense. Nor should the Times have an editorial board of nervous nellies who cannot conceive of acting in their own defense. I note they are happy to have police risk their lives for their high salaried life styles but they won't act to protect themselves or let others do so.
The majority of states allow carrying of firearms. The doyens of the Times seem to have missed that.
It makes sense for Jews to move to Israel or the USA (as suggested in other editorials elsewhere). Perhaps some of my family should have taken the advice to leave Austria when my parents suggested that. They died
17
To gem; NO, NO, NO to your gun answer. A "personal fireman" (sic) is never the answer. However, "... a well regulated militia..."; now we can agree.
7
So the sensible jew on the street's supposed to be carrying a gun? in today's world, intolerance needs to be stamped out, and that intolerance is being fanned by a minority of hate mongering people who've hijacked a religion. The most tolerant societies are the most successful societies, and one day the world may take note of this. Until then tolerance should be the new religion and throw the rest on the curb for all I care. Nothing but a source of fear, narrow mindedness, and intolerance. Maybe Marx was right after all: the opiate of the masses
9
The idea of owning a gun didn't seem to work well. In this case, the editor-in-chief of Charlie Hebdo had what some would say is something better - trained police officers who are skilled in the use of firearms. Yet, it was impossible for even the police to protect themselves when confronted with two people with automatic rifles intent on killing. The idea that a firearm is the panacea to protecting oneself is misplaced when you are dealing with the irrational.
14
A good friend of mine wrote a book about how many Jews survived in Italy during World War II, thanks to the kindness and risk taking of many ordinary Italians. We have many discussions about the Holocaust and people's response to it around the map of Europe. France did not have an enviable record in this regard, and while I love Paris and its diverse denizens, history can't be forgotten. Jews have never been welcome in Europe, France included. That Prime Minister Netanyahu told French Jews that Israel provides a safe haven for them, and that Jewish victims in the market were buried there, points to the necessity of Israel. Without it, no Jew in the world is safe.
107
The Times editorial reflects a view that antisemitic harassment in France is a recent phenomenon. That view is, sadly, very wrong.
In the early 1990s my daughter, living with a French-Jewish family in a Paris suburb, brought her "brother" and "sisters" a tee shirt whose message was in Hebrew. The mother forbade them from wearing their tees out-of-doors lest they be assaulted.
French authorities have long tried to ignore antisemitic harassment, because it
Makes France look bad. Appearances are considered important, perhaps paramount.
Inevitably, turning a blind eye has had adverse consequences. Consequently, French authorities are making a big show of "protecting" Jewish citizens. Of course: massive Jewish emigration would sully France's self-image and its image abroad.
Let's wait and see whether, this time, France gets serious -- and stays serious -- about combating not only outright terrorism, but also everyday antisemitic harassment.
In the early 1990s my daughter, living with a French-Jewish family in a Paris suburb, brought her "brother" and "sisters" a tee shirt whose message was in Hebrew. The mother forbade them from wearing their tees out-of-doors lest they be assaulted.
French authorities have long tried to ignore antisemitic harassment, because it
Makes France look bad. Appearances are considered important, perhaps paramount.
Inevitably, turning a blind eye has had adverse consequences. Consequently, French authorities are making a big show of "protecting" Jewish citizens. Of course: massive Jewish emigration would sully France's self-image and its image abroad.
Let's wait and see whether, this time, France gets serious -- and stays serious -- about combating not only outright terrorism, but also everyday antisemitic harassment.
140
It would be interesting if the extremist version of anit-Semitism made the more socially integrated versions harder to hold onto, in France and elsewhere in Europe. Certainly European anti-Semitism over many centuries has been a contributing factor to difficulties in the Middle East. Maybe we need to look at the big picture, across time and geography.
4
Yes, "France without Jews is not France." But there are many French who say "France WITH Muslims is not France." I find it ironic that so few in the media refer to the context of anti-Muslim racism as an underlying reason for the Islamist radicalization of some Muslim youth. Perhaps if France could say, "France without Jews AND Muslims is not France" could there be a move toward healing of divisions and the crumbling of the foundation for terrorism.
17
There are always people who like to blame others for everything that goes wrong, referring to place the blame elsewhere. France is a highly socialised country with many government safety nets and support systems, good education, job opportunity, a liberal vacation policy and time off for pregnancy. So maybe it is fair to place the blame for becoming a bad guy on the bad guys instead of on everyone else. Life is never easy but the rest of us manage to get thru it without blowing anyone up.
14
Here's an interesting thought-question? How many attacks by Jews on Muslims, simply because they were Muslims can you cite? And let's exclude any attacks by JDL types defending other Jews/synagogues from attack. Perhaps that might answer your question.
32
As an agnostic and lover of science my question is when will the human species leave all primitive religious mythologies in the past? All they do is perpetuate nonsensical ideas about the universe and provide artificial borders between people.
41
Being Jewish and being religious is not the same thing.
16
In the 1930's the US closed its doors to the Jews of Europe who were trying to escape the Nazis. The US did this even after the Nuremberg Laws and Kristallnacht. It is no wonder that Jews may wish to leave France. Some of these Jews are descendants of Holocaust survivors. However, Israel should not be the only option for them. The United States should allow any European Jew who feels threatened to emigrate to the US. They should be given expedited status. I guarantee that they will not become a burden on our
society. We owe it to them.
society. We owe it to them.
181
Nobody is saying they are not! America, despite a couple of unfortuante examples, has always welcomed Jews. It couldn't be America, and everything it stands for, without the many Jews here! Indeed, for most of us, as much as we care about Israel, America is the promised land!!!
3
The doors weren't closed. All that was required was that someone sponsor them. But people here didn't volunteer to take on that responsibility.
1
It would be most pitiable to see French Jews cower before the acts of an extremist minority when the European people and their governments have by far and much moved away from the atmosphere of the forties. Today, the Jewish communities of Western Europe enjoy the full rights and privileges of citizens; enjoy prosperous lives; and have the support and sympathy of the state. It would be a betrayal to abandon their societies as such.
13
The question is not whether Jews enjoy the full rights and citizenship of French citizens ... they do. The question is whether they can be successfully protected from Islamic terrorists. Take a look at the scorecard to date ... doesn't look very encouraging.
14
Yes let's blame the victims by all means. As a Jew whose family was murdered in the holocaust I am sick when people fail to see how the lesson of that to me showed us that hatred prejudices and indifference mean we must protect ourselves
People somehow feel it is Only our fault for the mess of the palestineons Well we have made many errors. However we are the only democracy. The only ones who want peace. The only ones who want women to be equals. To have religious freedom.
When a Jew is murdered there is no je suis a Jew. French lives matter more than Jewish lives.
Betrayal if you leave. No. I think not sir
People somehow feel it is Only our fault for the mess of the palestineons Well we have made many errors. However we are the only democracy. The only ones who want peace. The only ones who want women to be equals. To have religious freedom.
When a Jew is murdered there is no je suis a Jew. French lives matter more than Jewish lives.
Betrayal if you leave. No. I think not sir
20
But have rights and privileges proven to be enough? Only thru autonomy has anyone--and as history would indicate, especially Jews--genuinely realized and attained such conditions.
1
The Jews of France have plenty to fear. Not from the French but from Muslim extremists. Wake up NYT Editorial Board. Jews across the world have much to fear from Islamic extremists. So does EVERYONE else!!!!!
276
Don't you just love the NYTimes question out there today: What's it like to be a Muslim in France? Such concerns! No interest in what it's like to be a Jew in France...
The Times tells us about Netanyahoo's "diatribe" in a Sunday opinion piece - word connotations do matter NYT! The NYT Editorial Board maintains that it fairly represents all sides - really!
The Times tells us about Netanyahoo's "diatribe" in a Sunday opinion piece - word connotations do matter NYT! The NYT Editorial Board maintains that it fairly represents all sides - really!
35
>
Bill try to hold it together. This frightened hysteria plays right into the hands of the extremists. ~90 people died in car crashes today just in the US. The world is a tough place. There no champagne room out there waiting for us to find it.
According to Netanyahu's rhetoric, Iran is going to obtain an atom bomb and drop it on Israel any day now. Just following that logic, Israel surely does not sound very safe, if he is to be believed. I'd stay in France.
The NYTimes makes reference to the Nazi pogrom, but that was state sanctioned. There is a world of difference between state sanctioned anti-semitism and hoodlum anti-semitism. The French Jews are well protected by the government.
Bill try to hold it together. This frightened hysteria plays right into the hands of the extremists. ~90 people died in car crashes today just in the US. The world is a tough place. There no champagne room out there waiting for us to find it.
According to Netanyahu's rhetoric, Iran is going to obtain an atom bomb and drop it on Israel any day now. Just following that logic, Israel surely does not sound very safe, if he is to be believed. I'd stay in France.
The NYTimes makes reference to the Nazi pogrom, but that was state sanctioned. There is a world of difference between state sanctioned anti-semitism and hoodlum anti-semitism. The French Jews are well protected by the government.
14
good point...state sanctioned vs hoodlum. But save the comparison to the daily car crash death tolls. That's the argument the gun lobby uses. Nauseating.
1