I can't understand your comments in this article about attacks against Muslims in France. 50? Do you know how many attacks happen a year in France against Jews? In your article you never even bothered to mention the hundreds of attacks against Jews,Jewish Schools or Jewish businesses throughout France over the last few years! How many Jews in France need to die before the Times recognizes that Antisemitism is now rampant in France,Belgium and other European countries? This isn't just terrorism, its also out and out antisemitism and the Times needs to call this by its name and be at least intellectually honest!!
5
Over reaction as this can only make it worse. Time after time when over reaction is in place the ones looking for the perpetrators are looking in the wrong place and those committing the acts of violence go into frenzy looking to attack because it is a challenge.
I am not suggesting nothing be done but that we use our intelligence to combat it with actions of changing the climate that makes that violence necessary. From times beginning we ignore the repression inflicted upon others and forget to end that same repression.
I am not suggesting nothing be done but that we use our intelligence to combat it with actions of changing the climate that makes that violence necessary. From times beginning we ignore the repression inflicted upon others and forget to end that same repression.
1
I sincerely hope that some of the "sensitive sites" being protected include those in the Muslim community. More than 50 attacks on Muslims since the horror of Charlie Hebdo and the Kosher supermarket. The way to defuse radicalism is to strengthen equality in/for the Muslim community. Millions of Muslims in France had nothing to do with the misguided views of a radical few. These people and true Islam are victims too. Inclusion. Education, understanding and hope are the keys to destroying radicalism.
7
The rise of the right is Europe has also brought with it the rise of the antisemite, its just too easy to blame Muslims and ignore that Jews are fearful of the very real rise of the neofascists (who by the way offer lots of solutions to well everything, just like here) and have acted on it.
3
Radically is not rationally?
Stop coddling with terrorism. They never behave this way with us.
Terrorism must be stopped. Why our government is so idle?
Playing games with terrorism and radical Muslims (practically synonyms) means troubles!
France today. Who is tomorrow? America?
Stop coddling with terrorism. They never behave this way with us.
Terrorism must be stopped. Why our government is so idle?
Playing games with terrorism and radical Muslims (practically synonyms) means troubles!
France today. Who is tomorrow? America?
4
Evidently the French pick and choose their "sensitive" sites and the others are left to be targets for the French right wing nuts, no doubt on purpose, as a form of collective punishment. The muslims who have been attacked, their mosques have been attacked with nary a peep.
Isn't it interesting to see that the "Religion of Peace" has prompted the deployment of troops inside their own country for protection against terrorism by locals.
This is quite a sign that there is a war going on and that the politicians still do not acknowledge it as such.
I wonder how many additional attacks and killing will the Western society have to endure before it will also stand up to the fact that a policy of appeasement that already has failed with Chamberlain in 1938 will again fail in 2015?
Time to face facts, if integration cannot be reached then separation is your choice to avoid further bloodshed.
And Saudi Arabia or the IS is a land of choice for true believers of Islam.
As for the rest, convert to Christianity or the Jewish faith - same God but less terrorism and bloodshed.
This is quite a sign that there is a war going on and that the politicians still do not acknowledge it as such.
I wonder how many additional attacks and killing will the Western society have to endure before it will also stand up to the fact that a policy of appeasement that already has failed with Chamberlain in 1938 will again fail in 2015?
Time to face facts, if integration cannot be reached then separation is your choice to avoid further bloodshed.
And Saudi Arabia or the IS is a land of choice for true believers of Islam.
As for the rest, convert to Christianity or the Jewish faith - same God but less terrorism and bloodshed.
1
Osama bin Ladin is winning even from his grave.
His declared aim was to bankrupt the Corporate Capitalist System, first turning it into a carbon copy of the inefficient and oppressive Soviet Union, and then beat it with experience of trouncing the USSR.
Already the DHS is the largest department here, and France will likely follow the example of Canada, UK, et al, increasing internal costs.
The winner in this entire game of Sunni terrorism vs the West is ..... China, Shia Iran, Orthodox Russia.
His declared aim was to bankrupt the Corporate Capitalist System, first turning it into a carbon copy of the inefficient and oppressive Soviet Union, and then beat it with experience of trouncing the USSR.
Already the DHS is the largest department here, and France will likely follow the example of Canada, UK, et al, increasing internal costs.
The winner in this entire game of Sunni terrorism vs the West is ..... China, Shia Iran, Orthodox Russia.
2
As a practical matter, visit Paris this winter and support the small restaurants, hotels ad shops. It has a (relatively!) mild climate and is beautiful always. The timid will be at home cowering under their beds. All the better for a great time in the fantastic City of Light!
Enjoy!
Enjoy!
5
Pope Francis' message quoted at the end of this article is very succinct yet powerful. More people should take note.
5
Send some French Legionnaires there, they will get the job done if anybody comes and starts shooting.
While I am outraged at this despicable attack by moslem extremists, I am even more disturbed that a massacre of around 2000 innocent civilians in Nigeria by other moslem extremists (the so-called Boko Haram) merits not a mention on the frontispiece of the current on-line version of the NYT.
Clearly some lives are more valuable than others! Each of these unwarranted outrageous attacks should receive similar attention and condemnation.
Clearly some lives are more valuable than others! Each of these unwarranted outrageous attacks should receive similar attention and condemnation.
10
In 2004 385 children were killed in a terrorist attack by Chechen Islamist rebels in an attack on a Russian high school. But if course, Islam is not to blame - it was Ruusia's fault. In 2009 and 20014 Uigur Islamists carried out attacks in China killing 29 people last year alone. But everybody knows it's China's disrespect for Islam that prompted it. Boko Haram (whose name means Western education is forbidden) slaughters people in Nigeria - but it's in response to Christian attacks. French Islamists kill Jews: of course, it's Israel's fault. Radical antisemitic and anti-modernity ideologies are nothing new. Nor is a justification and appeasement of them by left-wing intelligentsia. I count myself among them but at this point we part ways. If forceful intervention is necessary, once again, to cut out this ideological cancer, so be it.
17
The French backbone seems to finally be stiffening up. I just hope it is not too late.
11
The French have been around for quite a few more centuries than we Americans and we'd do well to understand why that's important and how much we can and should learn from them. If anything does us in as a nation, it will be our own hubris. Hubris of a young, arrogant nation.
1
The Jewish community of France has been under attack for some time now. The question must be asked why it took so long to react. Seems the attack on Charlie Hebdo changed the mood. The French would be wise to heed Martin Niemöller who penned his famous, "First they came for the Socialists..." speech
23
Ultimate irony.
In an almost impossibly unlikely alignment of the stars Kerry's one and only qualification as secretary of state- he speaks French, actually had a useful application. What does he do at this once in a universe opportunity? Blows it, and doesn't show up at the rally.
You can't make this stuff up.
In an almost impossibly unlikely alignment of the stars Kerry's one and only qualification as secretary of state- he speaks French, actually had a useful application. What does he do at this once in a universe opportunity? Blows it, and doesn't show up at the rally.
You can't make this stuff up.
9
Yes, because let's make this tragedy about Obama and, if not Obama, then Kerry. Let's not let an opportunity to engage in petty partisanship be wasted.
Regain some perspective.
Regain some perspective.
2
Exactly the wrong thing to do, now the terrorists can watch France reacting like someone kicked an anthill, and say "we did that".
3
No need to deploy troops. No need to increase police surveillance. If the government cracks down the terrorists win.
In the interest of political correctness do nothing extraordinary to increase safety and let's see how many more French men, women and children will die! Such is the thinking of a modern progressive society.
In the interest of political correctness do nothing extraordinary to increase safety and let's see how many more French men, women and children will die! Such is the thinking of a modern progressive society.
3
Well, let's see. Last year the right was all in a tizzy about the amount of surveillance the NSA was doing on American citizens. Pin the tail on Obama. Now it is the progressives' fault that the tragedy in France happened. 13 years ago, we had the embarrassing Freedom Fries thanks to conservatives who were royally PO'd that the French would not join us in the Iraq folly, now they are all Je Suis Charlie. Same with the feeling about LE in this country. It was okay with the right for the Montana Militia to point guns at LE at the Bundy ranch last spring. Fast forward to Missouri and New York -- different story about how they feel about cop overreach. Political correctness, political opportunism -- two sides of the same coin.
9
These kinds of attacks are actually more common in nations that are the polar opposite of modern progressive societies. This is the norm in a lot of places.
Ah, but politics and ideology, right?
Ah, but politics and ideology, right?
Until the desperate conditions of the more sensitive areas of France (i.e. suburban housing projects) are addressed this violence will only get worse. The government needs to eliminating criminal elements in the "zones" through better policing, access to education and employment opportunities. That is the heart of the problem and where the investment needs to be made.
4
Better schools is the problem? They are killing children in Pakistan who are attending schools. The Muslim have serious problems with women,with education,with freedom of speech,with everything civilized.
Two countries were formed in Indian continent,India and Paquistan.One with more than 1.5 billion people progresses at a pace of 5% an year.The other with 200 million doesn't progress at all. Better example of something really bad in their cultural soup does not exist.
Two countries were formed in Indian continent,India and Paquistan.One with more than 1.5 billion people progresses at a pace of 5% an year.The other with 200 million doesn't progress at all. Better example of something really bad in their cultural soup does not exist.
3
mjb, can you say "radical Islam" and "extremist interpretation of the Koran"? Pope Francis hit the nail on the head. Your comments, on the other hard, are right from the talking points of the PC left.
1
I thought it was just me thinking that racial and religious distinctions are made --and advocated for-- among groups that need law enforcement protection. But I can see many good comments renouncing such distinction.
Remember that in the height of fear, and the heat of the moment a lot of people tend to forget that all citizens, by birth or naturalization, and all legal residents in any country are entitled to protection - not only from terrorist actions, but from state tyranny as well.
Remember that in the height of fear, and the heat of the moment a lot of people tend to forget that all citizens, by birth or naturalization, and all legal residents in any country are entitled to protection - not only from terrorist actions, but from state tyranny as well.
6
Please tell us more about Helric Fredou, 45, the deputy director of the regional judicial police in Limoges. How has his suicide or presumed suicide been left unmentioned?
5
Do you mind if I ask you why you're bringing his death up on this thread? Should I assume that you believe it directly related to the recent tragedy?
1
Thank you. I hadn't heard.
1
Since 9/11, every time terrorists strike, we double down on intelligence, security and law enforcement measures, even though these measures alone have failed miserably. The things are getting worse, not better. We have to understand the underlying causes of violent behavior and prevent it taking root in the minds of young Muslims. Blaming religion for all problems is an easy way out. In France, the Muslim population, especially the Muslim youth, are openly discriminated at every level. They are economically deprived and jobs are scarce for them. It is just not the Muslim population who has not done enough to integrate, but French society also has done everything in its power to isolate the Muslim population. Many Muslims feel foreign in their own country. These conditions have turned Muslim communities into ghettos with many disillusioned, alienated and angry youths with no hope of future.
This situation is a fertile ground for any extreme ideology to take hold.
The France and rest of Europe has to eliminate these socioeconomic discrimination if they want to achieve any successful outcome. Just show of muscle may make you feel better, but it is not the answer to the problem.
This situation is a fertile ground for any extreme ideology to take hold.
The France and rest of Europe has to eliminate these socioeconomic discrimination if they want to achieve any successful outcome. Just show of muscle may make you feel better, but it is not the answer to the problem.
7
"Blaming religion for all problems is an easy way out." It can't be that easy, as we can't even bring ourselves to blame religion for the problems it actually causes, because we want to be "politically correct".
The French reaction reminds me of my childhood, we didn't shoot the bottle rockets at the house where they just laughed and cracked another beer, we shot them at the house where some fool would circle the block in his car for half an hour.
The French reaction reminds me of my childhood, we didn't shoot the bottle rockets at the house where they just laughed and cracked another beer, we shot them at the house where some fool would circle the block in his car for half an hour.
1
And "young Muslims" are being discriminated against because...? Could their behavior be the reason?
2
So was this soldier French-Jewish & how many of the 10,000 deployed Are Jewish?
1
There is much in this sensitive piece to commend. But for me, the passages about Pope Francis' beautiful and healing comments bear special emphasis:
"At the Vatican on Monday, Pope Francis condemned the extremism behind the attacks, saying that religious fundamentalism 'eliminates God himself, turning him into a mere ideological pretext.'
"In his annual speech to diplomats accredited to the Holy See, the pope spoke of a 'culture of rejection, which severs the deepest and most authentic human bonds, leading to the breakdown of society and spawning violence and death.'”
Thank you, Alan Cowell, for weaving these poignant and universal words into your piece. I think they matter the most.
@ricfouad
"At the Vatican on Monday, Pope Francis condemned the extremism behind the attacks, saying that religious fundamentalism 'eliminates God himself, turning him into a mere ideological pretext.'
"In his annual speech to diplomats accredited to the Holy See, the pope spoke of a 'culture of rejection, which severs the deepest and most authentic human bonds, leading to the breakdown of society and spawning violence and death.'”
Thank you, Alan Cowell, for weaving these poignant and universal words into your piece. I think they matter the most.
@ricfouad
6
Quite a comparison with the estimated 83,000 Jews France sent to the ovens in the 1940s. Lest we forget....
15
France will pay the price.
It was, of course, the french police who enthusiastically rounded them up and put them on the death trains. We've come a long way since then.
3
I'm not sure what the connection is.
But since you raised it:
Like other European countries under Nazi occupation, France had lots of collaborators who were quite happy to arrest Jews and deport them to Nazi concentration camps and gas ovens.
Also, like other European countries, France had lots of resistance fighters who did absolutely everything to protect Jews, even sacrificing their own lives.
I have relatives who survived the war because a member of the Jeunesse Communiste, the French Communist Party youth league, died on the torture table rather than reveal their whereabouts. They were not friends of his, they weren't members of his organization, they weren't even close periphery of his organization -- although they understandably became enthusiastic members later on. They were just two human beings, two foreign Jews as it happened, from Romania. We know he didn't reveal anything about them because the local police or the Gestapo didn't come by to kick in the door.
And my cousins' experience was not at all unique.
But since you raised it:
Like other European countries under Nazi occupation, France had lots of collaborators who were quite happy to arrest Jews and deport them to Nazi concentration camps and gas ovens.
Also, like other European countries, France had lots of resistance fighters who did absolutely everything to protect Jews, even sacrificing their own lives.
I have relatives who survived the war because a member of the Jeunesse Communiste, the French Communist Party youth league, died on the torture table rather than reveal their whereabouts. They were not friends of his, they weren't members of his organization, they weren't even close periphery of his organization -- although they understandably became enthusiastic members later on. They were just two human beings, two foreign Jews as it happened, from Romania. We know he didn't reveal anything about them because the local police or the Gestapo didn't come by to kick in the door.
And my cousins' experience was not at all unique.
4
Several poplar or even Times-select comments here suggest the larger problem:
it's not enough to enact preemptory interdiction teams for Islamist terrorists already on a murder mission and dragnets for those who've already shed blood, and such approaches will never be effective enough, anyway. The West must get more at the source of Islamist terror -- the individual and institutional inculcation of mostly young, mostly male neophytes by terror veterans into the practice of terrorism, whether by field trip to some Syria-based training camp or via Internet, social media, media, etc., prompting and "juicing."
Islamist terrorists make full and productive use of Western freedoms -- travel, privacy, and, particularly, freedom of speech -- to try to advance their agenda that among other things demands the curtailment of those very freedoms in furtherance of Islamification, which is their goal.
So, the West, which values very highly those freedoms, is hard-pressed on how to deny the Islamist terrorists the advantages, and the very real ability to degrade and erode those freedoms, that those very freedoms confer.
What is really needed in the War on Terror -- among other elements -- are focused Constiutional conventions or their equivalent in all nations with Western-style democratic and human and civil rights freedoms and protections, intended to effect updating of the written-in-stone rules that enshrine those freedoms to deny Islamists these advantages.
it's not enough to enact preemptory interdiction teams for Islamist terrorists already on a murder mission and dragnets for those who've already shed blood, and such approaches will never be effective enough, anyway. The West must get more at the source of Islamist terror -- the individual and institutional inculcation of mostly young, mostly male neophytes by terror veterans into the practice of terrorism, whether by field trip to some Syria-based training camp or via Internet, social media, media, etc., prompting and "juicing."
Islamist terrorists make full and productive use of Western freedoms -- travel, privacy, and, particularly, freedom of speech -- to try to advance their agenda that among other things demands the curtailment of those very freedoms in furtherance of Islamification, which is their goal.
So, the West, which values very highly those freedoms, is hard-pressed on how to deny the Islamist terrorists the advantages, and the very real ability to degrade and erode those freedoms, that those very freedoms confer.
What is really needed in the War on Terror -- among other elements -- are focused Constiutional conventions or their equivalent in all nations with Western-style democratic and human and civil rights freedoms and protections, intended to effect updating of the written-in-stone rules that enshrine those freedoms to deny Islamists these advantages.
6
Brilliant, and I bet the trains will run on time, too. You are parroting the rightwing nuts of Europe.
French and other European Jews should not be comforted by a temporary display of military protection in their cities. The population numbers are against them and will not only continue to be against them, but increase over the next generation. France has 6 million Muslims and 500,000 Jews. The UK has 3 million Muslims and 300,000 Jews. The UK is still giving out the lion's share of new citizenships to emigrating Muslims, mostly from Pakistan and Nigeria. Anti-Semitism is rising all over Europe, including in places where it was miniscule, like Denmark, Norway, and Sweden - the latter, in particular, is having a problem-Malmo is completely unsafe for Jews. The situation in the Middle East is not likely to improve; Muslim hatred of Jews will continue to drive anti-Semitism across Europe, as whatever platitudes those governments mouth, they are not changing their immigration policies at all. Be sensible: get out while you can.
28
Agree entirely. They didn't in 1930's . Hopefully they learned. They have a reputation of education and street smarts.
4
Citizens in France are traumatized. They feel under siege. Jews in particular are vulnerable in merely going about their daily routines. A tipping point is reached in people's psyche. Thousands of troops will reassure. Yet a longer range plan with terror cells just below the surface is an enormous challenge. America needs to support, without equivocation, both publicly and behind the scenes, our oldest ally.
15
Can we expect radical Islamists to burrow underground to infiltrate Jewish neighborhoods as was done in Israel?
This may be a little off-topic - but it seems relevant to me:
What, exactly, are "Jewish schools"? I keep hearing how the Muslims in France (and the rest of Europe) have failed to integrate into the society that has allowed them to move in. What about the Jews? Are they integrated?Why are there "Jewish schools"? Don't children of Jewish religion attend regular, secular schools, along with all other French children? Or do they receive a different kind of education? For that matter, why are there Jewish neighborhoods in Europe? Could it be like in New York City, where whole areas of the city are populated exclusively by ultra-Orthodox Jews, the Haredim, who do not even recognize the US government's laws but do not object to receiving federal welfare benefits?
When you talk about integration, please do not focus only on the Muslims.
What, exactly, are "Jewish schools"? I keep hearing how the Muslims in France (and the rest of Europe) have failed to integrate into the society that has allowed them to move in. What about the Jews? Are they integrated?Why are there "Jewish schools"? Don't children of Jewish religion attend regular, secular schools, along with all other French children? Or do they receive a different kind of education? For that matter, why are there Jewish neighborhoods in Europe? Could it be like in New York City, where whole areas of the city are populated exclusively by ultra-Orthodox Jews, the Haredim, who do not even recognize the US government's laws but do not object to receiving federal welfare benefits?
When you talk about integration, please do not focus only on the Muslims.
15
Why are there Catholic schools? Why are there Lutheran schools? Is it so perplexing to you?
18
Jewish people may assimilate "less" because their values are already closer to those mainstream in the West - they are westerners. Contrast this with the very different legal, political, and moral system of Islam - which is decidedly non-Western (even anti-Western in more radical parts).
11
Why, for that matter, are there private schools? And regardless of whether people are sending their kids to Jewish, Catholic, Chinese language or public schools, there is only one group of schools, aka madrasas, that inculcates hatred of Western, non-Islamic values.
People have a right to be different, but shouldn't try to impose those differences on their host country.
People have a right to be different, but shouldn't try to impose those differences on their host country.
10
People who become terrorists are frequently criminals first. But for those who heed the call of jihadism because something is missing in their lives, being part of a cause greater then themselves, then it is up to Muslim religious leaders to turn them on to something else--another cause that they can join that contributes positively to the world. There are certainly enough problems in the world that need fixing.
8
What they are in almost all cases, first and foremost, is extremely poor and desperate.
Evidently, these "good Muslims" don't really bother with the mosque, so I worry that religious leaders may not be able to shed much light on red flag behavior of risky young people.
2
Well, gosh, when you put it that way, I guess it's OK to commit acts of terror and kill innocent people. I suppose that's why all poor people resort to terror and murder to improve their plight.
Oh, wait; that isn't true at all...
Oh, wait; that isn't true at all...
6
France courageously tried to allow multiculturalism until they were attacked by the very culture they extended their arms to. Now they literally have a mini foreign fighting force on their soil on their streets. Sounds like Muslims have not assimilated well at all and have semi autonomous colonies on French soil.
31
Your comment is an exaggeration and given that France has millions of Muslim citizens, the rate of "terrorism" compared to those millions is ridiculously small and largely irrelevant. To suggest that Muslims haven't assimilated well without offering any empirical evidence to support such a claim is pointless. The majority of Muslims living in France are now native-born, not the imported variety.
Yes, a problem exists but to suggest that all 5 million+ French Muslims are a part of the problem is unfounded and an irresponsible claim to make.
Yes, a problem exists but to suggest that all 5 million+ French Muslims are a part of the problem is unfounded and an irresponsible claim to make.
4
The same is true in other places in Europe: e.g., in the UK (Tower Hamlets, Bradford, Birmingham, East London) and Sweden (Malmo). It's too late for those countries. But countries like Denmark are digging and trying to hold the line on the multiculturalism that is, essentially, a euphemism for "we take over your cultures and write over them" and you lose what made your country great in the first place: your deeply shared values, history, language, etc.
18
Katie, my empirical evidence is the 756 "sensitive urban zones" which as far as I understand are for the most part exclusively Muslim communities segregated from society which police purportedly refer to as the "no-go zones". I've read reports these zones incorporate sharia law in certain instances. A recent poll in France shows 17% support for ISIS with a roughly 10% Muslim population. There are pew polls which show disturbing trends across the Middle East. Your logical argument seems to be "well it was literally 4 people who fired the shots" without taking into consideration the vast and unknown network which supports this.
9
Guarding many different sensitive locations is not going to be a long term solution due to its enormous costs. What we need to do is to stop the internet proliferation of "Islam" preaching and teaching of "martyrdom" of taking innocent lives. Rather than killing young men who who were poisoned by the adults who do not have the courage to fight themselves, let's target the source- all these preachers who hide behind free speech. Those who preach death and destruction will get a missile from us rather than the kids who don't know any better.
12
All the preachers and the money origin.
Wow. France is starting to descend into national marshal law; something not seen in decades. Considering the recent events, and legitimizing the far right Nationalists, this may not have a good outcome to it.
Imagine France adopting the Patriot Act Prime, that is the Patriot Act that also limits free speech and freedom of assembly. This is how dictatorships get born. Somehow, the US managed not to fall into that trap, though they pretty much spy on the citizenry. France, with two world wars under its belt, being in the middle of it all, and having a populace already xenophobic may push them over the edge.
Yes, it is 10,000 troops today, but it could be 20,000, 30,000 or more tomorrow. In a way, terrorism wins, if one's nation becomes an armed camp.
Imagine France adopting the Patriot Act Prime, that is the Patriot Act that also limits free speech and freedom of assembly. This is how dictatorships get born. Somehow, the US managed not to fall into that trap, though they pretty much spy on the citizenry. France, with two world wars under its belt, being in the middle of it all, and having a populace already xenophobic may push them over the edge.
Yes, it is 10,000 troops today, but it could be 20,000, 30,000 or more tomorrow. In a way, terrorism wins, if one's nation becomes an armed camp.
6
Most of my non-Jewish friends do not realize that in these very United States there are security checkpoints to enter several high-profile synagogues for major Jewish holidays.
Yes, the threat of violence against Jews, once thought a relic of the past, is very real and current. Not just in France but around the world.
Yes, the threat of violence against Jews, once thought a relic of the past, is very real and current. Not just in France but around the world.
38
And armed guards at every Jewish school, synagogue and museum, from Rome and Venice to Budapest and Vienna to Auckland and Sydney: these are only the cities I have seen-this has been the situation for years outside the USA.
3
An old point should be re-emphasized: terrorism in western nations directly harms relatively few people and in the hierarchy of risks it is frankly trivial. It does not deserve the attention it seems to always receive.
The events in Paris could also be viewed as simple murder instead of terror. And if they were collectively labelled thus would likely have received far less attention and aroused far less fear.
The meme of Islamic terrorism has become a dangerous collective delusion that creates unwarranted fear and restrictions upon liberty. I'll spare readers the numbers but close by adding that if we are serious about reducing risks to human life we would be far better off investing more money and effort in healthcare and traffic safety and less in our behemoth national security infrastructure.
The events in Paris could also be viewed as simple murder instead of terror. And if they were collectively labelled thus would likely have received far less attention and aroused far less fear.
The meme of Islamic terrorism has become a dangerous collective delusion that creates unwarranted fear and restrictions upon liberty. I'll spare readers the numbers but close by adding that if we are serious about reducing risks to human life we would be far better off investing more money and effort in healthcare and traffic safety and less in our behemoth national security infrastructure.
38
Mark-
Your comment makes a lot of sense,....BUT- the paltry current weekly damage assessment from Islam-inspired murder is not really the issue. The issue is the greater aim of the ideology behind the terror attacks, i.e., occupation of Western Europe and imposition of Sharia law, world domination of Islam, etc. Remember, it would have been better to confront Adolf Hitler when the Rhineland was first invaded- not waiting until 1941.
Maybe there is a better way to confront Islamic terrorism and its retro ideology without having to sacrifice our ease in boarding airplanes; if so, I'd like to hear it.
Your comment makes a lot of sense,....BUT- the paltry current weekly damage assessment from Islam-inspired murder is not really the issue. The issue is the greater aim of the ideology behind the terror attacks, i.e., occupation of Western Europe and imposition of Sharia law, world domination of Islam, etc. Remember, it would have been better to confront Adolf Hitler when the Rhineland was first invaded- not waiting until 1941.
Maybe there is a better way to confront Islamic terrorism and its retro ideology without having to sacrifice our ease in boarding airplanes; if so, I'd like to hear it.
18
Please do share the numbers. If they are so convincing, let's hear them.
1
There aren't any armies from Muslim countries with military bases in Europe and North America. Their armies do not invade Europe or North America for "regime change."
I could go on, but I think it's obvious. The fantasy from Crusader Rabbit, above, is such a classic case of the psychological disorder known as "projection" that it would not even interest a young clinical therapist, just starting out and wanting to build a career.
As for the reference to Hitler, we heard that constantly from Prime Minister Anthony Eden when Nasser nationalized the Suez Canal. And so many others down through the years. The idea that a squalid collection of sheikhdoms and shahdoms, most of them puppet regimes installed by "the West," are about to conquer "the West" or can be compared to Nazi Germany in 1936 is laughable.
I remember in 1967 when then-Secretary of State Dean Rusk compared Ho Chi Minh to Adolf Hitler. That, too, was widely believed: the Yellow Peril and all that.
I could go on, but I think it's obvious. The fantasy from Crusader Rabbit, above, is such a classic case of the psychological disorder known as "projection" that it would not even interest a young clinical therapist, just starting out and wanting to build a career.
As for the reference to Hitler, we heard that constantly from Prime Minister Anthony Eden when Nasser nationalized the Suez Canal. And so many others down through the years. The idea that a squalid collection of sheikhdoms and shahdoms, most of them puppet regimes installed by "the West," are about to conquer "the West" or can be compared to Nazi Germany in 1936 is laughable.
I remember in 1967 when then-Secretary of State Dean Rusk compared Ho Chi Minh to Adolf Hitler. That, too, was widely believed: the Yellow Peril and all that.
((“The very idea of a war on terrorism is worrisome,” the journalists Jacques Follorou and Franck Johannès wrote in Le Monde. “For the law, there is nothing worse than these moments of intense unanimity, this wave of emotion that submerges rationality.” Once laws are enacted, it is difficult to reverse them, they wrote))
Well said. This looks like a response completely disproportionate to the threat. At least some French intellectuals are stepping back from this tragedy to provide a counter point. They must learn something from the American 'War on Terror'.
Surely this is helping Holland's approval rating in ways unimagined just a week or so ago!
Well said. This looks like a response completely disproportionate to the threat. At least some French intellectuals are stepping back from this tragedy to provide a counter point. They must learn something from the American 'War on Terror'.
Surely this is helping Holland's approval rating in ways unimagined just a week or so ago!
5
As ludicrous as the US "war on terror "may have been (or may be), there have been relatively few effective attacks on American soil since 9/11 and nothing on the order of that attack. So what exactly have the French learned? How to imagine themselves culturally superior to the fascistic Americans? Let's all hope their moments of intense unanimity don't lead to anything like effective anti-terrorism laws, or they'll all be , to use an old Yiddish expression, "verklempt."
January 12, 2015
Europe knows what it has to do - and France is just having to response with the security that meets consequences of the horrific killing - and let's not go to full military authoritarianism - unless....
jja Manhattan, N. Y.
Europe knows what it has to do - and France is just having to response with the security that meets consequences of the horrific killing - and let's not go to full military authoritarianism - unless....
jja Manhattan, N. Y.
2
The French will soon learn that these extra security expenses are unsustainable, especially when you don't have the world's reserve currency.
6
Wouldn't a good solution be to bar reentry into a country if someone who is known to train at a terroist camp? I think their passports should be revoked. What's the reason to allow them back in? Way to great a risk in IMHO.
23
The obvious question would be "how do you know they really trained at a terrorist camp"? Wouldn't a citizen be entitled to, at least, a hearing on the matter before they were barred reentry? Will journalists and political opponents be falsely accused and what's to prevent that?
3
I would revoke any and all citizenship and passports for anyone known to attend a terrorist camp or participate in any terrorist related activity. If they want to go to these places, they should rot there.
28
As things are set up now and have been since the Schengen Agreement was put into effect in 1995, it would be nearly impossible to track the movements of citizens of the EU because there are no border checks between member nations of the EU. What the EU has focused on, instead, is increasing their security and external border controls...the perimeter of the EU, if you will. From what I've read so far from various international news outlets, much more immediate focus will be put on implementing or better honing cross-checks with non-EU nations like Turkey, in an attempt to identify and then track the movements of some citizens using Turkey as a gateway for entry into Syria and other parts of the Middle East and north Africa.
1
Some measures should be taken.If the citizen goes to Siria or Iraque to fight for ISIS France should strip him from citizenship and keep them out of the country.The western world should engage in locating the Imans that preach war against infidels and send them back to the Arab world.You cannot allow radical preachers supported by the monarchies in the gulf to keep preaching to kill who doesn't agree with their fundamentalist vision.Saudis need to be under more scrutinity.Enough with the free hand for the preaching against the western world,Israel and everything that doesn't much their believes.
10
Saudi Arabia is the font of this nonsense. The rulers would have been lethally sanctioned years ago if not for the treasonous US businesses " trading with the enemy." Don't expect change from either party who long ago sold out their country and its people for lucre.
15
After the attack of 9-11 there was a nonfly rule put in place to protect the skies in the U.S., I was booked to fly to Hong Kong to work on a film on September 12th but I had to wait until the 15th. No one was allowed to take off during that time, well, no one except a plane full of Saudi citizens who were rushed out of the country without even a cursory examination by government authorities, this at the urging of Bush administration members. In retrospect, perhaps it would have been helpful to know what if any connections those who fled had with the 17 of the 19 hijackers who were, by the way, Saudi nationals.
15
This is a very narrow minded idea. It is so easy to blame someone without having any facts. As long as the mentality of people such as this writer continue to exist, we can only expect more of the same idiocy in this world.
Deploying troops - an interesting move - as compared to what happened after 9/11, when the warlord Bloomberg asked for funding for his private army (NYPD), rather than take the obvious step, of using Federal Troops to protect NYC.
Remember, there are no serious air, naval or army bases in NYC. That's why there were no aircraft available to intercept the attacking planes on 9/11. How can it be that the most important and powerful capital city is the world is ignored by our armed forces? Obviously, in NYC, Tammany Hall Pork trumps Defense Pork.
It is very curious that NYPD has officers assigned to both Paris and Tel Aviv; studies of the 9/11 disaster made it clear that centralization and sharing of information had not been done, and was essential to achieving security - and isn't dealing with foreign nations a Federal Issue? If it really true, that the Department of Homeland Security is so defective that NYPD really needs to have their own liaisons, we have a serious problem. And who do they pass the information on to?
What is even more frightening, is the inability of the current Mayor to command the private army. Dispirited troops, are bad troops. In light of recent events, we need to get our act together; this will require much better leadership than what we have seen so far.
Remember, there are no serious air, naval or army bases in NYC. That's why there were no aircraft available to intercept the attacking planes on 9/11. How can it be that the most important and powerful capital city is the world is ignored by our armed forces? Obviously, in NYC, Tammany Hall Pork trumps Defense Pork.
It is very curious that NYPD has officers assigned to both Paris and Tel Aviv; studies of the 9/11 disaster made it clear that centralization and sharing of information had not been done, and was essential to achieving security - and isn't dealing with foreign nations a Federal Issue? If it really true, that the Department of Homeland Security is so defective that NYPD really needs to have their own liaisons, we have a serious problem. And who do they pass the information on to?
What is even more frightening, is the inability of the current Mayor to command the private army. Dispirited troops, are bad troops. In light of recent events, we need to get our act together; this will require much better leadership than what we have seen so far.
2
So now the mayor of NY city needs to do and say whatever the NYPD wants so New Yorkers can be protected against terrorism? These Paris attacks have really brought the neocons back out of average Americans.
2
Dear Peter Zenger,
Interesting points, but I think army troops are not effective against individuals or small groups who will, logically, hide from them with ease. The way to prevent individuals from making attacks is by detective work, and the people who do that are law enforcement, whether local or FBI. Troops with assault rifles and tanks on the street will never see an attack because cowardly terrorists would never directly attack them. But bearing this in mind, I think you're quite right that interdepartmental cooperation and communication is vital and needs to be improved.
Also as to why NYC doesn't have major army bases and such, we actually do have a National Guard armory in the middle of Manhattan, and there are air bases within ten minutes flight time or so. Generally the U.S. doesn't have military bases in major cities because real estate is at a premium, and it makes the cities a military target. And the concept has been, if any nation were fool enough to attack NYC or L.A., we would come down on them like a ton of bricks, from everywhere. Right now we have a couple dozen subs with 24 nuclear missiles on board, all over the world, quite enough deterrent for rational nations.
And with these lone jihadists, who can we hit back? Seems unwise to nuke Mecca.
Interesting points, but I think army troops are not effective against individuals or small groups who will, logically, hide from them with ease. The way to prevent individuals from making attacks is by detective work, and the people who do that are law enforcement, whether local or FBI. Troops with assault rifles and tanks on the street will never see an attack because cowardly terrorists would never directly attack them. But bearing this in mind, I think you're quite right that interdepartmental cooperation and communication is vital and needs to be improved.
Also as to why NYC doesn't have major army bases and such, we actually do have a National Guard armory in the middle of Manhattan, and there are air bases within ten minutes flight time or so. Generally the U.S. doesn't have military bases in major cities because real estate is at a premium, and it makes the cities a military target. And the concept has been, if any nation were fool enough to attack NYC or L.A., we would come down on them like a ton of bricks, from everywhere. Right now we have a couple dozen subs with 24 nuclear missiles on board, all over the world, quite enough deterrent for rational nations.
And with these lone jihadists, who can we hit back? Seems unwise to nuke Mecca.
3
A national guard armory is not a military base, it is a place for antique shows.
"army troops are not effective against individuals or small groups who will, logically, hide from them with ease" - Yes! Exactly what happened in Iraq and Afghanistan; but it doesn't stop us from doing it again and again - we need a new and clever solution - an "outside of the box" solution.
Basically, we are dealing with a self-abuse cult - when they attack the general public, they are externalizing their anger at themselves; a suicide attack is the ultimate act of self-abuse. Anything that causes the terrorists to lighten up, will destroy the cult.
The best bet would probably be to use armored bulldozers to constantly push massive quantities of beer, which is "haram" to them", across their borders. Everyone, including the guys who are supposed to be destroying it, will start to drink it (it's hot there), and over time, the terrorism problem will go away.
Yes, I know that they have a lot of drugs available, but the beer will do its magic in time - works like a charm here in the USA; disables a big chunk of our population!
"army troops are not effective against individuals or small groups who will, logically, hide from them with ease" - Yes! Exactly what happened in Iraq and Afghanistan; but it doesn't stop us from doing it again and again - we need a new and clever solution - an "outside of the box" solution.
Basically, we are dealing with a self-abuse cult - when they attack the general public, they are externalizing their anger at themselves; a suicide attack is the ultimate act of self-abuse. Anything that causes the terrorists to lighten up, will destroy the cult.
The best bet would probably be to use armored bulldozers to constantly push massive quantities of beer, which is "haram" to them", across their borders. Everyone, including the guys who are supposed to be destroying it, will start to drink it (it's hot there), and over time, the terrorism problem will go away.
Yes, I know that they have a lot of drugs available, but the beer will do its magic in time - works like a charm here in the USA; disables a big chunk of our population!
1
So you're supposed to feel safer because thousands of troops are deployed to keep your neighbors from killing you?
7
Apart from protecting the Jewish population in France, the authorities may have to take a new approach in dealing with their minorities, if they want to prevent similar attacks in the future.
There are still many in France's suburbs with high concentration of immigrants who feel more attached to Islam than to the Enlightenment values, that France embraces.
The "Je ne suis pas Charlie" Facebook page had received more than 21,000 likes. There was also a "Je suis Kouachi" hashtag, trending on Twitter.
They showed no sympathy towards the victims at the Charlie Hébdo, who mocked their prophet Muhammad, asking: why is it all right for Charlie Hebdo to insult Islam when the controversial comedian Dieudonne M'bala M'bala was prosecuted for mocking Jews?
There are still many in France's suburbs with high concentration of immigrants who feel more attached to Islam than to the Enlightenment values, that France embraces.
The "Je ne suis pas Charlie" Facebook page had received more than 21,000 likes. There was also a "Je suis Kouachi" hashtag, trending on Twitter.
They showed no sympathy towards the victims at the Charlie Hébdo, who mocked their prophet Muhammad, asking: why is it all right for Charlie Hebdo to insult Islam when the controversial comedian Dieudonne M'bala M'bala was prosecuted for mocking Jews?
8
Because no one stalked him and shot him dead. That's the difference.
5
One of the 'benefits' of jumping onto the Global War on Terror bandwagon. The world would be a better place if the U.S. stopped its mindless support of Israel and never-ending involvement in the Middle East. Even better if we all did a better job of conserving oil, Cheney's idiotic comment on the topic notwithstanding.
19
What does that have to do with this? They killed because they felt their 'religion' was mocked and also because killing Jews is the default whenever things don't go their way.
24
A classic case of the unintended consequences that result from segregated communities, that do not integrate into the mainstream of the society where they have been invited to be part of.
This untenable system is the fault of both the host government and the immigrant community.
This untenable system is the fault of both the host government and the immigrant community.
3
tell me the wastern ex-pat compounds in Saudi Arabia and the rest of Gulf arab countries, how are they integrated?.
11
Westerners obey the laws of the country they are in. They do not have their own churches, they cannot openly worship, cannot drink alcoholic beverages in public, their women cannot drive...Whereas the Muslims in the West have their own mosques, many worship publically, their women cover their heads, some areas follow their Sha'ria courts....,
1
They are explicitly segregated and guarded to prevent the Western 'infidels' living therein, from being slaughtered. No one prevents Muslim enclaves in France, England etc. from integrating with the rest of those societies, and no one in the rest of those societies would kill them for trying. That's the difference.
4
Just where was President Obama yesterday? Why wasn't anyone from this Administration present for this massive rally in Paris? How come the other Leaders from around the world were able to be there...security issues notwithstanding.
What kind of message does this send to our Allies?
More importantly..what was the intended message that was sent to our enemies?
What kind of message does this send to our Allies?
More importantly..what was the intended message that was sent to our enemies?
17
Hey..."France-Gate"! This month's non-scandal scandal.
7
And let's be honest here...had the President flown to Paris to attend, just as many (and likely the same) people would be screaming about how the President "took a vacation to Paris" using taxpayers' money.
I would have liked to have seen our President in attendance but I won't take a bite out of the "Let's make a scandal" apple, thanks.
I would have liked to have seen our President in attendance but I won't take a bite out of the "Let's make a scandal" apple, thanks.
16
Because he's an idiot, and as usual, tends to shy away from the fact that radical extremism is one of the greatest risks to our society today.
6
As long as there's no justice or freedom for the Palestinians, subjected to the Jewish State's siege of their lands and livelihoods in Israeli occupied Palestinian territories, why should there be any for someone, just because they happen to be living in France?
I thought Israel justified its hard-line stance on limiting the rights and movements of Palestinians in Israel as a means of insuring a safe refuge for Jews, when the fact of the matter is all that hard-line is doing is putting even more Jews living outside of Israel at greater risk. Or are the only Jews that matter to Israel, the ones that have elected to forsake the rest of the world for the piece of the ancient covenant. It's as if the Jews are still out wandering the Sinai desert, never being able to finally call any place home; because the private exclusive place they consider to be worthy of their home just can't exist apart from a world inhabited by all peoples, not just a few who consider themselves sacrosanct and unique from the rest.
I thought Israel justified its hard-line stance on limiting the rights and movements of Palestinians in Israel as a means of insuring a safe refuge for Jews, when the fact of the matter is all that hard-line is doing is putting even more Jews living outside of Israel at greater risk. Or are the only Jews that matter to Israel, the ones that have elected to forsake the rest of the world for the piece of the ancient covenant. It's as if the Jews are still out wandering the Sinai desert, never being able to finally call any place home; because the private exclusive place they consider to be worthy of their home just can't exist apart from a world inhabited by all peoples, not just a few who consider themselves sacrosanct and unique from the rest.
6
@Iver Thompson: apparently you fell for the jihad propoganda about "occupied" territories. Your comment reads as if came from ISIS. But you will a few in the radical left crowd who will believe you.
9
There is far, far more justice for every Arab living in Israel than for any Arab living in an Islamic country. The Palestinians have been offered the chance of having their own state on numerous occasions and they have rejected these offers. (Can you even imagine the Arabs making such an offer to the Jews?) The Palestinian leadership is obsessed with hating the Jews- they should get on with their lives and create something of value in the places they are fortunate to live in, courtesy of Israel.
23
Iver: so all Jews even babies and small children living elsewhere in the world are a fair target because of the injustices you feel the Israeli government is doing towards the Palestinians. So when there was no Israel what was the justification then?
25
I heard one "expert" on the news this morning state that the attack on the Kosher grocery store was retaliation for the ongoing Jewish illegal settlements in Israel. Perhaps Netanyahu should take this under advisement and think about it.
5
perhaps this "expert" is not an expert. saying this attack on French Jews who have nothing to do with Israel is justifiable due to what other Jews are doing is anti-Semitic. Should all Jews must bear collective responsibility for Israel’s crimes real and imagined? In that case, all Christians are justifiable targets for what they did to Muslims during the Crusades.
16
Well then, probably Netanyahu should respond to this attack on a deli by driving all the Palestinians out of Gaza and ending that nuisance permanently. It would make a little more sense than attacking a deli because of Israeli settlements.
17
1) There's a difference between a reason and an excuse
2) So I can kill you because some people in another country who to some extent share some component of identity or belief system happen to do something with which I disagree? By that logic, people could punish innocent Muslims in the name of retaliation for Islamic extremism, and isn't that what we are going at lengths to argue against?
2) So I can kill you because some people in another country who to some extent share some component of identity or belief system happen to do something with which I disagree? By that logic, people could punish innocent Muslims in the name of retaliation for Islamic extremism, and isn't that what we are going at lengths to argue against?
15
“Violence is always the product of a falsification of religion, its use as a pretext for ideological schemes whose only goal is power over others.”
Behind the Islamic world’s veneer of modernity - with the world’s tallest buildings and endless luxury shopping malls - lies a primitive view of violence and retribution perpetuated by leaders desperate to maintain the societal status quo. Concepts of honor, dignity, authority and superiority are unnaturally intertwined, where alleged transgressions often justify a violent response - and legal systems across the Islamic world support this. This isn’t about religion; it’s about control, desperation and a distorted view of justice. Liberals and moderates of the Islamic world must speak out and recognize that the tragedies in Paris and elsewhere are a toxic byproduct of an outdated cultural system that has nothing to do with religious faith.
Behind the Islamic world’s veneer of modernity - with the world’s tallest buildings and endless luxury shopping malls - lies a primitive view of violence and retribution perpetuated by leaders desperate to maintain the societal status quo. Concepts of honor, dignity, authority and superiority are unnaturally intertwined, where alleged transgressions often justify a violent response - and legal systems across the Islamic world support this. This isn’t about religion; it’s about control, desperation and a distorted view of justice. Liberals and moderates of the Islamic world must speak out and recognize that the tragedies in Paris and elsewhere are a toxic byproduct of an outdated cultural system that has nothing to do with religious faith.
16
Well said; there's a reckoning coming for all progressive Muslim nations (and moderate individuals to whom Islam is a meaningful religion); they must purge the extremist threat from amongst them or suffer the inevitable dislocation, violence, instability and economic ruin that lie waiting for them at the end of their fall into bigotry and extremist violence. We're all waiting to see them deal with this before the rest of the world loses patience and isolates them further.
5
There is something very wrong with the idea that schools need to be protected by armed troops while they teach the children within that free speech is a great thing. Free speech YES, but yelling "fire" in a crowded theater (fundamentalist rhetoric) NO! And while I would love to believe that the pen is indeed mightier than the sword, I don't think that idea holds water when you are dealing with an enemy that does not read with an open mind if they read at all. Free speech is a wonderful thing but a society needs to educated and tolerant in order to handle it.
Perhaps the time has come for the leaders of the Western World to read the "Prince" by Niccolò Machiavelli. Sometimes violent, brute force is the only real remedy that people understand and I believe it is justified when used in self defense. We will not rid the world of Islamic Fundamentalists by trying to reason with them.
Perhaps the time has come for the leaders of the Western World to read the "Prince" by Niccolò Machiavelli. Sometimes violent, brute force is the only real remedy that people understand and I believe it is justified when used in self defense. We will not rid the world of Islamic Fundamentalists by trying to reason with them.
18
@jj: "We will not rid the world of Islamic Fundamentalists by trying to reason with them". But isn't that exactly what Obama has been trying to do ever since he took office?
You don't need Machiavelli's help; seems most of our nation agrees with your assessment.
You don't need Machiavelli's help; seems most of our nation agrees with your assessment.
@rimantas. Pres. Obama didn't seeming to reasoning with Bin Laden or Alwaki. But that won't stop your tactless meme, will it?
6
They may agree but no one except the United States has really gotten into the fight. The Obama administration killed Osama Bin Laden and Anwar al-Awlaki. We need more help and support from the rest of the Western World if we are going to get rid of the Islamic Fundamentalists. Less talk more getting their hands bloody.
6
Israel's most recent attack on Gaza in a string of many continues to cause pain and suffering around the world. Lets hope France and the EU see through to getting a solution satisfactory to the Palestinians in place. The US has done nothing but failed at it as Israel's proxy in the matter.
4
are you saying Jews all over the world should be attacked by Muslims and others? And that it is justifiable? That Jews must bear collective responsibility for Israel’s crimes real and imagined?
35
Ed, murder is not an appropriate response to political or religious conflicts (especially when those conflicts take place quite far away).
10
Gaza? Were the dead Jews in the grocery IDF?
And frankly the 1600 dead in Gaza are dwarfed by the 200,000+ killed in Syria. I notice how many college students and activists are motivated to protest the slaugher there. (Kidding, of course.)
My point is that there'll always be tidy ways of justifying the murder of Jews regardless of geopolitics.
And frankly the 1600 dead in Gaza are dwarfed by the 200,000+ killed in Syria. I notice how many college students and activists are motivated to protest the slaugher there. (Kidding, of course.)
My point is that there'll always be tidy ways of justifying the murder of Jews regardless of geopolitics.
25
And the terrorist sit back smiling and congratulating themselves. They've gotten another overreaction making them more "relevant" than they are and magnifying any fear that might have been conjured up in the populous minds.
These outward shows do nothing to bring about real safety and security but everything to keep the "dilemma" right there in your face 24/7.
These outward shows do nothing to bring about real safety and security but everything to keep the "dilemma" right there in your face 24/7.
4
By supporting intolerance through democratic principles, France (and the US for that matter) has allowed extreme intolerance to fester and grow. We westerners consider doing so a basic component of liberty. But in doing so, westerners have lost their own freedoms to state militarization of society in defense of the intolerant. It's almost like not treating a local infection because infections have been given the right to thrive at the expense of the infection making the entire body sick.
Is Islam an infection? Comparing Islam to freedom and democracy, it certainly is. It is not just a religion, a belief, or a faith. It's a way of life. It's a way to order and run society which is in complete conflict with our long established western principles. Not even considering how Islam has been used to justify violence, the way it subjugates women and denies children a liberal arts education is barbaric to say the least.
We consider religion to be a personal matter, something done in private. Islam is a public matter.
Is Islam inherently violent? In Iraq and Syria the Sunni and Shia consider each other to be heretics, each deserving of death. If they are intolerant of each other because of a technicality, how can they be tolerant of the western infidel?
Until Islam is treated by its practitioners as a private belief, it will never be compatible with western societies. Until Islam tolerates members of its own faith, it will never tolerate the west.
Is Islam an infection? Comparing Islam to freedom and democracy, it certainly is. It is not just a religion, a belief, or a faith. It's a way of life. It's a way to order and run society which is in complete conflict with our long established western principles. Not even considering how Islam has been used to justify violence, the way it subjugates women and denies children a liberal arts education is barbaric to say the least.
We consider religion to be a personal matter, something done in private. Islam is a public matter.
Is Islam inherently violent? In Iraq and Syria the Sunni and Shia consider each other to be heretics, each deserving of death. If they are intolerant of each other because of a technicality, how can they be tolerant of the western infidel?
Until Islam is treated by its practitioners as a private belief, it will never be compatible with western societies. Until Islam tolerates members of its own faith, it will never tolerate the west.
160
Have you forgotten the wars fought by Protestants and Catholics in Ireland, England, and Europe? And lest you think that to be ancient history, think about the recent conflict between thecSerbs and the Croats.
Religion has been used (and abused) by amoral autocrats for centuries to justify all types of atrocities and to keep the people in line.
Islam is no exception.
Religion has been used (and abused) by amoral autocrats for centuries to justify all types of atrocities and to keep the people in line.
Islam is no exception.
Read my comment posted in this mornings editorial:
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/12/opinion/after-the-charlie-hebdo-attack...
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/12/opinion/after-the-charlie-hebdo-attack...
A little stress -- a far away crime (unless the above was in Paris) -- exposes a lot. Politest way to put it. There are literally an infinite number of ways to respond to this event. The choices have been telling.
Sorta like an ex-friend of mine who witnessed 9/11 and somehow, out of the infinity of possible responses, somehow came up with: "It's all world Jewry's fault."
Again, telling.
Sorta like an ex-friend of mine who witnessed 9/11 and somehow, out of the infinity of possible responses, somehow came up with: "It's all world Jewry's fault."
Again, telling.
5
If a toxic weed threatens plants in a garden yet the weed is removed leaving the root, the weed will return again and again, spread, and produce new weeds. Thus in addition to protecting "Sensitive Sites" and people, we must globally join forces and declare war on the root causes of terrorism; the underlying societal/familial/cultural and other conditions that are creating rageful wayward youth worldwide causing them to turn in droves to toxic revenge-based gangs like ISIS and Al Quida for belonging, identity, and a way to express their rage against humanity. Fundamentally, there seems no other way to stem this ever growing ruthless, rule-less terrifying tide of death, destruction, and mayhem than removing the roots.
37
@bkay: "the underlying societal/familial/cultural and other conditions" have nothing to do with the root cause you are searching for. Rather, it's the Islam religion itself in whose name these killings take place. What to do? One obvious answer is in the speech by Egypt's president on the need to reform their religion.
9
Just like the Democrat Party
1
I condemn violence, extremism & terrorism everywhere: whether in Paris, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Afghnistan, Palestine or in the United States.
5
When will we stop fighting over our stupid superstitions and "divine" books?
10
When we don't believe in them anymore. It's slowly happening, people aren't being burned as witches so much, and nearly nobody throws salt over their left shoulder when they spill some (to get the Salt Demon right in the eye or some silly thing).
However, I'm sure humanity will still fight over other things, as we do today. We like fighting, let's face it.
However, I'm sure humanity will still fight over other things, as we do today. We like fighting, let's face it.
I was thinking the world would have been better off carved up into territories for the religious and territories for the non-religious rather than by nations. Let all the religious have it out or find a way to peacefully coexist. I don't want to have to deal with their problems because I don't believe in any of it.
5
When people stop using them as a means of control. Nothing like a good dose of fire and brimstone or the threat of divine retribution to make the uneducated toe the proverbial mark.
2
The Muslim population of France is close to 10 million and growing at an aggressively disproportionate rate throughout Europe, while the Jewish population of France is closer to 500 thousand...a consequence of a former anti-semitic pogrom we're all too familiar with. While Israel's actions against the Palestinians seem to be judged as belligerent by many in France, they remain an enlightened people who respect freedom of religion...and providing protection for those most likely to suffer injury, which is to be applauded. It will be interesting to watch if this perspective is maintained as France evolves to become a majority Muslim country. I'm not a Marine Le Pen advocate, but look at the birth tables and do the math...if the current trend continues that time is fast approaching. Bully for the Muslims if they maintain France's overall commitment to tolerance; however, having traveled that road once with disastrous consequences I suspect by that time many Jews in France will have taken Netanyahu up on his invitation.
47
Your comment regarding "aggressively disproportionate rate throughout Europe" could just as well be used to describe Israel. Why is it then, that when Jews use the line, it is met with accusations of bigotry , but when used in reference to Europe or the U.S. it is deemed as a defense of western ideals?
2
Look at the birth rates all you want but unless you are ready to put a cap on the number of children people are allowed to have it doesn't mean a thing. I for one, am for controlling population growth but I am in a minority that does not believe that procreation is a "divine" right.
4
As a realist, if I were looking to migrate to Israel then adhering to Israeli mores is a requirement I would anticipate as a condition of acceptance. I don’t see this as an example of “bigotry”…Israel’s government is, after all, essentially a theocratic democracy, and Israel, as clearly demonstrated by Netanyahu’s recent remarks associated with his visit to participate in the Unification Parade, continues to recruit those of Jewish heritage to emigrate to and assimilate in Israel…a nation essentially created for Jews. Neither would I take exception to the expectation that I would abide by Muslim mores were I to relocate to Iran. So, why should we expect less from peoples moving to countries like France who have a history of tolerance? We’re all bigoted in one way or another, but self imposed segregation in “no-go zones”, substituting the rule of French Law for religious, e.g. Sharia Law, etc., seem to me great ways to significantly foster a level of intolerance even in those who were similarly predisposed to reject it. We reap what we sow, so perhaps it’s time for tolerant Muslims to change the tone and demonstrate that they are the majority (not sure if this is true)…while there are exceptions, overall the silence is deafening.
1
They also need to drain those terrorist swamps, otherwise known as "no go" zones, around Paris. These are areas where Sharia is the law and police dare not enter, kinda like the Taliban controlled areas of northwest Pakistan.
62
Start putting prisoners in supermax cells- it is worse than death. I recall reading that the chiefs of that batch of clowns prancing around as Isis got together in prison. Seperate and forget.
If the west understood the nature of modern war Isis and all suppirters could be erased. I'm furious at Cheneys and MIC for getting the US into this mess but it is time for extreme measures. Either the leadership are cowards or profit from these brushfires.
Does anyone read/ understand history? The USSR lost 25 million killed in WW2 plus proportionate wounded and missing. Get some perspective & let's take this war to the enemy,. Dsgraceful, the craven and/or corrupt leadership f both parties, who have sold out the people for money.
If the west understood the nature of modern war Isis and all suppirters could be erased. I'm furious at Cheneys and MIC for getting the US into this mess but it is time for extreme measures. Either the leadership are cowards or profit from these brushfires.
Does anyone read/ understand history? The USSR lost 25 million killed in WW2 plus proportionate wounded and missing. Get some perspective & let's take this war to the enemy,. Dsgraceful, the craven and/or corrupt leadership f both parties, who have sold out the people for money.
The "no go" zones are yet more right-wing propaganda. They do not exist.
2
There exists no such things as "no-go" zones. This is nonsense drummed up and spread only on fringe websites. Actually, Fox News had an "expert", Steve Emerson, on air this past Sunday and he made a very strong assertion about Birmingham, England being a "no-go" Muslim city where non-Muslim UK citizens simply do not enter and that London has a "no-go" zone that is patrolled by Muslim policemen who beat non-Muslims that enter the area. Of course, nothing he asserted as fact was factual and the world, including the UK's Prime Minister, has mocked Mr. Emerson and rightfully so for his ludicrous comments. He has since issued a public apology for asserting false information and "relying on bad sources". If you're touted on air by a major "news" network as an expert on all things related to Muslims and Islam, you don't get a mulligan. You don't get to blame "bad sources" for what you should have known to be unfactual claims in the first place.
To each and every person now running with this bad information spewed forth by Fox News' "experts" or other news sites of questionable origin, know that you are now willingly and intentionally spreading a lie. Stop.
To each and every person now running with this bad information spewed forth by Fox News' "experts" or other news sites of questionable origin, know that you are now willingly and intentionally spreading a lie. Stop.
3
So many people marching, but for what, and what will it do? What does it mean "We are all Charlie"?
Sorry, but the whole thing seems completely meaningless. It will accomplish nothing. It may even encourage the terrorists further, as they got SUCH a big response.
But ... this march might become meaningful IF it is followed immediately and long-term with tangible, top-priority action - which means military attacks and propaganda efforts on a broad and deep basis until the fanatics are driven back into caves, and the rest of the Islamic world feels at least fear of (if not respect for) the West. And big bucks to back it up.
How likely is that, with so many pusillanimous leaders in the West?
In the meantime, I wish we would suspend all Islamic immigration (excepting only proven allies, such as our Iraqi translators) UNTIL our existing Islamic citizens and residents visibly lead this charge personally - and drop their veils.
Not politically correct - but the right way to go - oui?
Sorry, but the whole thing seems completely meaningless. It will accomplish nothing. It may even encourage the terrorists further, as they got SUCH a big response.
But ... this march might become meaningful IF it is followed immediately and long-term with tangible, top-priority action - which means military attacks and propaganda efforts on a broad and deep basis until the fanatics are driven back into caves, and the rest of the Islamic world feels at least fear of (if not respect for) the West. And big bucks to back it up.
How likely is that, with so many pusillanimous leaders in the West?
In the meantime, I wish we would suspend all Islamic immigration (excepting only proven allies, such as our Iraqi translators) UNTIL our existing Islamic citizens and residents visibly lead this charge personally - and drop their veils.
Not politically correct - but the right way to go - oui?
26
Public spaces are too numerous to guard and were not designed as fortresses or bunkers. Who really wants to live in a police state and see automatic weapons on display at every turn? Without a visible foe, the weapons are useless.
Primary responsibility for censorship of militant radicals lies with the family, community and lastly with the government. When a community simpathizes, rationalizes, or simply ignores the hate and violence without actively stopping it in its tracks, then it is complicit.
When we see thousands of Muslims walk the streets of Paris protesting the violence of self proclaimed jihadis, only that will be proof of popular consensus that violence will not be tolerated. Until then, everything else is just futile jesture and political posturing.
Primary responsibility for censorship of militant radicals lies with the family, community and lastly with the government. When a community simpathizes, rationalizes, or simply ignores the hate and violence without actively stopping it in its tracks, then it is complicit.
When we see thousands of Muslims walk the streets of Paris protesting the violence of self proclaimed jihadis, only that will be proof of popular consensus that violence will not be tolerated. Until then, everything else is just futile jesture and political posturing.
6
about 750 "No Go" zones in France - non-muslims don't dare enter...great multi-culturalism
54
No such thing. This is bad, factually incorrect information.
2
It seems that the old saying, "The pen is mightier than the sword." Is being thrown about a lot this week. It is very hard to fight an idea. While the Chinese Government is critized a lot because they do not allow free speech, they know their history quite well and they have had great disruptions over the centuries over ideas taking hold in their country that was destructive to the harmony they desire. The Boxer Rebellion is one of the more famous destructive ideas.
Islam extremism is an idea that is not going away particularly when it gets plenty of fuel from amongst the wealthy in some of the Arab countries that I do not need to identify. Armies are not going to stop this Idea. Definitely, we need a new interpretation for what we mean by the term, "Freedom of Speech". We cannot permit Speech that is destructive to the principals that our societies hold dear. Even if we could stop such Speech in our homeland institutions, it would be almost impossible to prevent the same Speech on the Internet coming from the Middle East and other points. However, we must know that it is this Speech that is mightier than the sword.
Islam extremism is an idea that is not going away particularly when it gets plenty of fuel from amongst the wealthy in some of the Arab countries that I do not need to identify. Armies are not going to stop this Idea. Definitely, we need a new interpretation for what we mean by the term, "Freedom of Speech". We cannot permit Speech that is destructive to the principals that our societies hold dear. Even if we could stop such Speech in our homeland institutions, it would be almost impossible to prevent the same Speech on the Internet coming from the Middle East and other points. However, we must know that it is this Speech that is mightier than the sword.
Free Speech is Democracy?
Why Mockery of Islam is acceptable in the West, but mocking Christianity or Judaism is not permitted?.
Islam is considered especially sensitive, partly because of strict prohibitions on the rendering of images of the Prophet Muhammad and other religious depictions.
Why Mockery of Islam is acceptable in the West, but mocking Christianity or Judaism is not permitted?.
Islam is considered especially sensitive, partly because of strict prohibitions on the rendering of images of the Prophet Muhammad and other religious depictions.
2
Tony, you seem to have missed a recent episode of "Family Guy" on Rupert Murdoch's Fox.
A character says , in questioning the vercity of historiacl records, that Jesus didn't die on the cross.
The next scene is a morgue. A fugure representing God asks the coroner:
"So what was the cause of death?"
"Cocaine overdoes and severe trauma to the colon."
"Yeah, I'm gonna need to see those forms."
A character says , in questioning the vercity of historiacl records, that Jesus didn't die on the cross.
The next scene is a morgue. A fugure representing God asks the coroner:
"So what was the cause of death?"
"Cocaine overdoes and severe trauma to the colon."
"Yeah, I'm gonna need to see those forms."
3
Why aren’t they protecting Muslim places of worship, given the record number of attacks against Muslims across Europe in the past week.
7
"France to Deploy Thousands of Troops to Protect Jewish Schools and ‘Sensitive Sites"
Clearly the French Government is at fault for not protecting its citizens, ignoring the fact that there would certainly be some unexpected reactions of their illegal military activities in Mali, Libya, Iraq and Syria. None of these people killed in these countries by French arms was a threat to the Republic of France. Why this great country still meddles in the internal affairs of old European colonies is beyond comprehension.
Clearly the French Government is at fault for not protecting its citizens, ignoring the fact that there would certainly be some unexpected reactions of their illegal military activities in Mali, Libya, Iraq and Syria. None of these people killed in these countries by French arms was a threat to the Republic of France. Why this great country still meddles in the internal affairs of old European colonies is beyond comprehension.
1
There is no way to prepare adequately enough to counter the lone gunman or even pair of gunmen. If you don't believe me, look at the daily news for the U.S. The element of surprise wins all day, every day.
Counter-terrorism efforts are most effective when they focus on trying to intercept and/or prevent bombings, hijackings, etc...
Counter-terrorism efforts are most effective when they focus on trying to intercept and/or prevent bombings, hijackings, etc...
2
Do you have a source that indicates the murders have anything to do with French intervemtion in Mali, Libya, Iraq or Syria?
2
"Counter-terrorism efforts are most effective when they focus on..."
not unnecessarily provoking terrorism by attacking and killing people which pose no threat in the first place.
not unnecessarily provoking terrorism by attacking and killing people which pose no threat in the first place.
“Islam has never been compatible with the values of Western Civilization” Actually, it was Islam that pulled Europe out of the Dark ages and allowed women to inherit property way before Europe even considered them citizens. Read any history book and it’s there, so I don’t know whose values are incompatible with the other.
7
The dark ages? How long ago was that and what does it have to do with any of the abominations taking place across the globe in the name of Islam? The mere suggestion that Islam plays some leadership role with respect to women's equality defies logic.
24
That would be Islamic/Arabic culture in its most enlightened stage. Basically after it translated the works of Greeks and Romans and then gave them back to Medieval Europe. Islam as a religion remains at its core incompatible with Western principles of democratic rule. The best example would be the most venerated: the person of Mohammed. A murderer, a pillager, and a strong political leader who forced massive swaths of the middle east to convert, pay Jizya, or perish. Not exactly the poster body for tolerance and "universal principles".
21
"Almost as a footnote, news reports over the weekend said that Mourad Hamyd, an 18-year-old who had been depicted as a third suspect in the shootings at Charlie Hebdo, had been released without charge Friday night after schoolmates insisted on Twitter that he had been in class that day. He turned himself in on Wednesday at a police station in Charleville-Mézières, about 145 miles northeast of Paris, after seeing reports on social media that he was being sought by the police in connection with the shootings."
_____________________
You have to wonder how that happened.
_____________________
You have to wonder how that happened.
6
You also have to wonder how they tried to implicate Coulibably's wife, with reports that she'd escaped the supermarket, even though she left the country before it happened.
I think, though, it indicates that they had all these people under surveillance and had connected them. When the balloon went up and they identified some individuals, they just put those names out their out of "an abundance of caution" because they were connected to the known actors. They weren't going to let one of them sneak up behind them.
I think, though, it indicates that they had all these people under surveillance and had connected them. When the balloon went up and they identified some individuals, they just put those names out their out of "an abundance of caution" because they were connected to the known actors. They weren't going to let one of them sneak up behind them.
6
"The world is less violent than it has ever been."Barry Obama, 2014
Al Qaeda is “on the run,” Barry Obama
AL Qaeda is “decimated” Barry Obama
ISIL is the "JV" team. Barry Obama
Somebody better inform Mr. Obama of the the facts. He did not even show up in Paris on Sunday with all the world leaders. Sleeping late on a Sunday is no excuse.
Al Qaeda is “on the run,” Barry Obama
AL Qaeda is “decimated” Barry Obama
ISIL is the "JV" team. Barry Obama
Somebody better inform Mr. Obama of the the facts. He did not even show up in Paris on Sunday with all the world leaders. Sleeping late on a Sunday is no excuse.
18
"mission accomplished" - G.W. Bush, 2003
13
Actually Un, the world is less violent than it has ever been. Take a brief glance back at WWII, WWI, the war of 1812, the American Revolution, and the further back you go, the bloodier things get. This attack killed 16 people, which technically is an incredibly small number of people. That many people die of natural or accidental causes in America about every 5 seconds.
Al qaeda is also on the run. They have nowhere near the organizational network they had in 2000, they can't muster major attacks (this one was just local lone wackos), they have never again pulled off an attack on the scale of 9/11. And we've killed thousands of them, which has been progress.
Al qaeda is also decimated. They're fragmented, they've got different jihadist groups vying for power, and they no longer control huge swaths of nations as they did in the 90's.
ISIL is the JV team too. They have no major hardware, have not been an international threat, and are mainly just wreaking a little more mayhem in the hellhole that is Syria and Iraq.
So those are the facts, and Pres. Obama did not sleep late for the Parisian march. I wonder why you think you know better than the president, when you actually don't mention any countering facts.
Al qaeda is also on the run. They have nowhere near the organizational network they had in 2000, they can't muster major attacks (this one was just local lone wackos), they have never again pulled off an attack on the scale of 9/11. And we've killed thousands of them, which has been progress.
Al qaeda is also decimated. They're fragmented, they've got different jihadist groups vying for power, and they no longer control huge swaths of nations as they did in the 90's.
ISIL is the JV team too. They have no major hardware, have not been an international threat, and are mainly just wreaking a little more mayhem in the hellhole that is Syria and Iraq.
So those are the facts, and Pres. Obama did not sleep late for the Parisian march. I wonder why you think you know better than the president, when you actually don't mention any countering facts.
13
These were individual gunmen. In the U.S. we have to deal with these types of crimes in a daily basis and they are rarely, if ever, considered national tragedies anymore. That you cannot or will not understand the President's comments in proper context is your issue, not his.
5
The attack on Charlie Hebdo was a stated goal. All the deployed troops in the world can't stop these terrorists from deciding who they want to target and avoiding surveillance to do so. And the military industrial complex grows richer.
15
Right. Why bother trying? I'm sure the French people probably have a different take on what constitutes waste.
1
Ispieler - I'm not talking about waste. I'm talking about largess. I don't like seeing anyone profit off violence and fear, and people are.
Correction, and apologies, I misused largess (which means the exact opposite of what I thought) and should have said personal enrichment.
"that pits civil liberties campaigners against the demands of security officials who cite the attacks as evidence of an urgent need to introduce stronger powers to monitor suspects" I was a little suspicious when some of the information from the French Intelligence turned out to be incorrect. I will be a LOT more suspicious if the French Parliament introduces an act or law, like the Patriot Act, that reduces the freedoms of the French people.
5
Interesting isn't it? Everyone is so concerned about anti-Muslim sentiment, but it is the Jewish sites that need protecting.
115
When the media cares more about the people who share the religion of the terrorists than the people whose religious group is being systematically targeted, there is a big problem.
Liberals’ angst about violent anti-Muslim uprisings always proves to be empty. So after the 7/7 Tube and bus attacks in London, there were wide and wild warnings of a violent backlash against the Muslims of Britain. Journalists predicted bloodshed. National Health Service workers were encouraged to keep their eyes peeled — ie. spy — for any signs of anti-Muslim agitation among their patients.
But there was no spike in anti-Muslim crimes.
“The fears of a [post-7/7] rise in offences appears to be unfounded,” the Director of Public Prosecutions later admitted.
After the Boston Marathon bombings there were loads of media panic about the “ignorance and prejudice [that arise] in the aftermath of a terrorist attack” and concern that Muslims in America would get it in the neck. But Muslims have not been assaulted en masse by stupid Americans in recent years, including in the wake of 9/11. According to federal crime stats, in 2009 there were 107 anti-Muslim hate crimes; in 2010, there were 160. In a country of 330 million people, this is exceptionally low.
I imagine it isn't fun to worry about pigs heads in mosques or about "potential" backlashes to your community. But Muslims in France are not being murdered because they are Muslim..
Jews are being murdered because they are Jews.
Liberals’ angst about violent anti-Muslim uprisings always proves to be empty. So after the 7/7 Tube and bus attacks in London, there were wide and wild warnings of a violent backlash against the Muslims of Britain. Journalists predicted bloodshed. National Health Service workers were encouraged to keep their eyes peeled — ie. spy — for any signs of anti-Muslim agitation among their patients.
But there was no spike in anti-Muslim crimes.
“The fears of a [post-7/7] rise in offences appears to be unfounded,” the Director of Public Prosecutions later admitted.
After the Boston Marathon bombings there were loads of media panic about the “ignorance and prejudice [that arise] in the aftermath of a terrorist attack” and concern that Muslims in America would get it in the neck. But Muslims have not been assaulted en masse by stupid Americans in recent years, including in the wake of 9/11. According to federal crime stats, in 2009 there were 107 anti-Muslim hate crimes; in 2010, there were 160. In a country of 330 million people, this is exceptionally low.
I imagine it isn't fun to worry about pigs heads in mosques or about "potential" backlashes to your community. But Muslims in France are not being murdered because they are Muslim..
Jews are being murdered because they are Jews.
45
Because these terrorists specifically targeted Jews, that is why. And others are ready to do the same. There have been many more attacks on Jews throughout Europe recently, and they are almost always perpetrated by extremist Islamists.
19
"Interesting isn't it? Everyone is so concerned about anti-Muslim sentiment, but it is the Jewish sites that need protecting."
Yes, and you should be grateful taxpayers are picking up the cost.
Yes, and you should be grateful taxpayers are picking up the cost.
this sounds like a deja vu of the crusades.
it also sounds like a civil war. a religious civil war.
it also sounds like ferdinand and isabelle's "reconquista".
these are prolly the "end times".
it also sounds like a civil war. a religious civil war.
it also sounds like ferdinand and isabelle's "reconquista".
these are prolly the "end times".
1
Fear not, they're not the end times. A batch of primitive jihadists with no air force, no navy, no real army, and no plan for the future, is not going to be able to end humanity. It's doubtful that even a nuclear war would end humanity, since it would be only in the Northern hemisphere and self-restricting (lots of the missiles would target missile launch sites); and for sure, jihadists are not able to start a nuclear war.
1
The use of all these troops is a bad sign. The militarization of the society can bode nothing good. Terrorism has been used as a reason to increase the authoritarian power of the state here, and now it's happening in France and elsewhere. Think about how the government dealt with terrorism in the 1970s and compare. For example, planes were being hijacked all the time. In Germany, there was the Baader Meinhof group, in the US, the Weathermen. The authorities used the police, they didn't surveil the population on a massive scale, didn't attack other countries with drones. they operated within the law.
23
The threat of terrorism, and the inhumane acts of terrorists, are exponentially greater than they were in the 70s. The French must do what they deem necessary to protect the French people. If they believe the mobilzation of troops is necessary to do so in the face of such threats, then we are arrogant to even suggest that we know better. This time, their blood has been spilled.
12
"The use of all these troops is a bad sign."
What are their options, sans a 2nd amendment?
When you criminalize gun ownership, only criminals and terrorists will have guns.
What are their options, sans a 2nd amendment?
When you criminalize gun ownership, only criminals and terrorists will have guns.
3
A frightening scenario is a ramp up in militarization in France with LePen at the nation's helm.
Slippery slope, France.
Slippery slope, France.
1
I understand the reaction created by fear, exactly what the terrorists aspired to produce, but it's useless for preventing terrorism and nudges the country strongly towards fascism.
Take any small nation like France, add 10,000 troops roving around with no set directive, and things look a lot more fascist. Just seeing our Natn'l Guard in NYC, wearing gas masks with half-tracks behind them, freaked me out considerably back in '01.
So the troops will be useless because they're not detectives, just a wall of defense. The terrorists will see troops in the area and go somewhere else, or wait a week, because their targets are anywhere, and all they want is to kill anyone. There's no way to defend everywhere and everyone.
I believe such measures are useless, and what needs to be done is proactive measures. Get Muslims in France to come together, denounce this jihadism (which most of them do), and inform on those Muslims that approve of jihad. Plenty of people tweeted about how the attacks were so great; find them and jail them, on any pretext, or deport them, to anywhere. Write new laws specifically targeting jihadists: approving jihad is grounds for deportation or jail, anyone who kills for jihad will have their family bankrupted by fees, any terrorist caught will be cremated and used as fertilizer in farms that produce pig food (that oughta terrify 'em).
Sorry I'm still really furious about this, but I don't like the thought of all those worrisome troops either.
Take any small nation like France, add 10,000 troops roving around with no set directive, and things look a lot more fascist. Just seeing our Natn'l Guard in NYC, wearing gas masks with half-tracks behind them, freaked me out considerably back in '01.
So the troops will be useless because they're not detectives, just a wall of defense. The terrorists will see troops in the area and go somewhere else, or wait a week, because their targets are anywhere, and all they want is to kill anyone. There's no way to defend everywhere and everyone.
I believe such measures are useless, and what needs to be done is proactive measures. Get Muslims in France to come together, denounce this jihadism (which most of them do), and inform on those Muslims that approve of jihad. Plenty of people tweeted about how the attacks were so great; find them and jail them, on any pretext, or deport them, to anywhere. Write new laws specifically targeting jihadists: approving jihad is grounds for deportation or jail, anyone who kills for jihad will have their family bankrupted by fees, any terrorist caught will be cremated and used as fertilizer in farms that produce pig food (that oughta terrify 'em).
Sorry I'm still really furious about this, but I don't like the thought of all those worrisome troops either.
50
It always amazes me about the lack of knowledge and naive of U.S. citizens concerning events around the world.
Maybe if you took the time to follow events in France and Europe you might realize there is a significant increase in terrorist activity from Muslim extremist - thus the stopgap need for French troops protecting potential targets.
And your kumbaya notion that most Muslims "denounce" this type of jihadiosm is very wrong.
There have been numerous polls conducted around the world that show a tacit approval for the types of terrorist acts we saw against Charlie Hedbo, along with a significant minority that approves of these types of jihadist acts.
All of the above is also bolstered by a deafening silence from most Islamic leaders or when such a leader does decide to speak out against these acts they still employ divisively charged words like "enemies of Islam" or "infidel," neither of which bodes well for a rational and open dialogue between Muslims and non-Muslims.
So, excuse me if I don't take the concerns of the use of troops from someone who lives in the isolation and relative safety of the U.S. soil, which has not seen any significant terrorist attack on its home soil in nearly 14 years.
Maybe if you took the time to follow events in France and Europe you might realize there is a significant increase in terrorist activity from Muslim extremist - thus the stopgap need for French troops protecting potential targets.
And your kumbaya notion that most Muslims "denounce" this type of jihadiosm is very wrong.
There have been numerous polls conducted around the world that show a tacit approval for the types of terrorist acts we saw against Charlie Hedbo, along with a significant minority that approves of these types of jihadist acts.
All of the above is also bolstered by a deafening silence from most Islamic leaders or when such a leader does decide to speak out against these acts they still employ divisively charged words like "enemies of Islam" or "infidel," neither of which bodes well for a rational and open dialogue between Muslims and non-Muslims.
So, excuse me if I don't take the concerns of the use of troops from someone who lives in the isolation and relative safety of the U.S. soil, which has not seen any significant terrorist attack on its home soil in nearly 14 years.
16
Dear MikeNH,
Oh don't worry, I've got considerable knowledge and I'm rather cynical. My point was not about terrorist activity, but that troops will not prevent it, and they won't, it's naïve to think they would. Terrorists are cowards and don't attack armed troops, except in warzones; even then they prefer to attack the troops in the mess hall or by hidden bombs. The troops will, as I say, prevent nothing; if they're at one synagogue, the jihadists will go three blocks away and attack a McDonald's.
Most Muslims do denounce jihadism too. It's tempting to let anger cloud our sight and claim that none do, but the majority of them do. The ones that openly support terrorism are those in the impoverished areas of less advanced nations, those whose lives have been savage. Prominent Muslims around the world, like Mr. Abbas, vehemently stated this attack was unjustifiable.
So like, naivety is bad, but don't let all your outlook be colored by fury and revenge either. This is a failing I'm prone to myself when it comes to terrorism, so I know how ya feel, and I wish you well.
Oh don't worry, I've got considerable knowledge and I'm rather cynical. My point was not about terrorist activity, but that troops will not prevent it, and they won't, it's naïve to think they would. Terrorists are cowards and don't attack armed troops, except in warzones; even then they prefer to attack the troops in the mess hall or by hidden bombs. The troops will, as I say, prevent nothing; if they're at one synagogue, the jihadists will go three blocks away and attack a McDonald's.
Most Muslims do denounce jihadism too. It's tempting to let anger cloud our sight and claim that none do, but the majority of them do. The ones that openly support terrorism are those in the impoverished areas of less advanced nations, those whose lives have been savage. Prominent Muslims around the world, like Mr. Abbas, vehemently stated this attack was unjustifiable.
So like, naivety is bad, but don't let all your outlook be colored by fury and revenge either. This is a failing I'm prone to myself when it comes to terrorism, so I know how ya feel, and I wish you well.
2
re: Dan Stackhouse
There is nothing "furious" in my comments about the problems in Muslims in their dealings with terrorism.
Try looking at what Pew Research said about this, then also take a look at the countries most prone to suppressing freedom of speech, the right of women and other non-Islamic minorities and you will find Islamic theocracies leading the way.
Also, look at the countless news reports on Muslim radicalization in nations like Great Britain, France and Germany and you tell me, where is the outcry from Islamic leaders on terrorism in the West - it is not there.
You might also want to try tuning into international newscasts, such as France24, BBC, Deutsche Welle and get a real idea of what is really happening in that part of the world and not the sanitized version you see from American media, especially this newspaper.
There is nothing "furious" in my comments about the problems in Muslims in their dealings with terrorism.
Try looking at what Pew Research said about this, then also take a look at the countries most prone to suppressing freedom of speech, the right of women and other non-Islamic minorities and you will find Islamic theocracies leading the way.
Also, look at the countless news reports on Muslim radicalization in nations like Great Britain, France and Germany and you tell me, where is the outcry from Islamic leaders on terrorism in the West - it is not there.
You might also want to try tuning into international newscasts, such as France24, BBC, Deutsche Welle and get a real idea of what is really happening in that part of the world and not the sanitized version you see from American media, especially this newspaper.
3
I agree with the earlier comment that until we stop ignoring violence in Africa and North Korea we are hypocrites. I am an Obama supported too and I am glad they did not go. The world needs to stand behind ALL people around the world suffering from extremists and dictators. Not just pick and choose the ones that we benefit from.
3
One of the brothers was further radicalised by a preacher while in prison for promoting terrorism and subsequently travelled to Yemen. 2things come to mind. Firstly, those imprisoned on terror charges should be kept isolated from each other: surely not a difficult thing to do. And second the men of poisoned words must be taken out of circulation as soon as they come on the radar. In Britain we have incitement laws yet there are several men who continue to purvey their malice. Authorities both here and in France seem hesitant to take on these men, who hide behind free speech but obviously do not believe in it. Now is the time to act, before movements such as Pegida in Germany, Marie Le Penn's NF in France of Nigel Farage's UKIP take hold and cause even more problems.
32
So much needs to be done behind the scenes. Use financial resources to snuff out terrorists to be, with good police investigations. Monitor the bad guys on line, in the mosques and on the street and at the borders. If they go to Syria or Iraq, don't let them back into the country. They want to fight war? Let them stay in the Mid East and see how they like it.
All 3 of the terrorists this week could've been stopped with preventative measures. Unfortunately, it was too late once their plan was on the ground.
RIP to all the victims. What an awful way to go.
All 3 of the terrorists this week could've been stopped with preventative measures. Unfortunately, it was too late once their plan was on the ground.
RIP to all the victims. What an awful way to go.
12
Not sure I understand why they are guarding jewish Schools. Where the offices at Charlie Hebdo attacked because they were jewish or because they mocked The Prophet?
I do realize a jewish supermarket was attacked but based on what I have read about these determined kooks, they are anti-western and less anti-semitic.
The French shouldn't let the Israeli Prime Minister manipulate this act of terrorism to suit his misguided purposes
I do realize a jewish supermarket was attacked but based on what I have read about these determined kooks, they are anti-western and less anti-semitic.
The French shouldn't let the Israeli Prime Minister manipulate this act of terrorism to suit his misguided purposes
19
I think you have forgotten that Israel and the Jews represent the west to these murderous people.
37
Despite that a Jewish school was attacked in Toulouse, you're not sure why "they" are guarding Jewish [sic] Schools. But with no supporting evidence, you are certain that Netanyahu is trying to manipulate the French [sic; people]. Interesting.
92
The attack at the magazine was for insulting Islam. The people killed in the supermarket were killed because they were Jewish. Jews make up less than 1% of the population in France and are the victims in more than 50% of hate crimes. If these "kooks" were anti-Western you would expect that hate crimes would be more evenly distributed across the population.
Here's the record for 1 month in 2014
Six days later, violent anti-Semitic riots broke out in Sarcelles, a Paris suburb known as “Little Jerusalem.” Cars were set on fire, stores were looted and two synagogues were attacked. Protesters chanted anti-Semitic slogans including “Death to Jews” and “Slaughter the Jews.” A week later, a man in Toulouse threw firebombs at a Jewish community center.
Here's the record for 1 month in 2014
Six days later, violent anti-Semitic riots broke out in Sarcelles, a Paris suburb known as “Little Jerusalem.” Cars were set on fire, stores were looted and two synagogues were attacked. Protesters chanted anti-Semitic slogans including “Death to Jews” and “Slaughter the Jews.” A week later, a man in Toulouse threw firebombs at a Jewish community center.
146
Let us keep in mind sane balance here: the cartoonists so brutally and senselessly murdered were very critical of the French military and their reputation for racism and brutality. In the wake of their deaths, let us keep in mind that they carried with them the spirit of Voltaire himself (who is buried along with Rousseau just a kilometer away from the site of the vicious massacre, under the Pantheon). He famously wrote that he would defend to the death any person who espoused an idea with which he disagreed -- because the freedom of ideas was more important than whether the idea was right or wrong.
This is not to say that we should not track these criminals down and aggressively bring them to justice. But we should never allow ourselves to become that which we are battling: brutal and amoral animals. To hold them to justice is a very different thing than to get revenge.
This is not to say that we should not track these criminals down and aggressively bring them to justice. But we should never allow ourselves to become that which we are battling: brutal and amoral animals. To hold them to justice is a very different thing than to get revenge.
45
I am a fan of anyone that is a fan and student of history!
2
"But we should never allow ourselves to become that which we are battling: brutal and amoral animals."
You mean like Abu Ghraib?
You mean like Abu Ghraib?
The anti-Semitic motivations of Coulibaly's actions are left out. Why? Of course French Jews are dismayed, since they were "promised" after the 2012 murders in Toulouse that more would be done to protect them. Not to dismiss the threat to all ordinary Frenchmen (including Muslims) from extremists/terrorists, and this is far truer in Nigeria or the Middle East where most of the victims of these "religious" terrorists are locals, many in fact Muslim. But, for the western media to downplay the vicious anti-Semitic aspects of radical Islam isn't coming from an "oops I forgot" moment, but from lack of honesty and integrity.
147
Time to accept this:
1) Islam is a value system
2) Not all value systems are compatible (for instance, free market and communism)
3) Islam has never been compatible with the values of Western Civilization (valuing the individual over the group, freedom of expression, freedom of press, voting, property rights, rights for women, separation of church and state, etc). Islam simply goes in a different direction. There's a reason why the countries that integrate Islam most tightly to their society are run by ruling families or strongmen, have strong controls over expression, laughable voting records, very little private enterprise, etc.
4) Europe is importing a vast number of Muslims, and then seems surprised when so many of those Muslims appear to be alienated, isolated, resentful of their host society, and eventually violent. Large number of Europeans then ask where they went wrong, as if this is their fault. And also label as "racist" anyone who begins to wonder if the problem is a fundamental incompatibility between Western values and Islam.
5) Europe needs to wake up and start accepting that square pegs do not fit in round holes. Curtail Islamic immigration. Show the angry ones the door.
1) Islam is a value system
2) Not all value systems are compatible (for instance, free market and communism)
3) Islam has never been compatible with the values of Western Civilization (valuing the individual over the group, freedom of expression, freedom of press, voting, property rights, rights for women, separation of church and state, etc). Islam simply goes in a different direction. There's a reason why the countries that integrate Islam most tightly to their society are run by ruling families or strongmen, have strong controls over expression, laughable voting records, very little private enterprise, etc.
4) Europe is importing a vast number of Muslims, and then seems surprised when so many of those Muslims appear to be alienated, isolated, resentful of their host society, and eventually violent. Large number of Europeans then ask where they went wrong, as if this is their fault. And also label as "racist" anyone who begins to wonder if the problem is a fundamental incompatibility between Western values and Islam.
5) Europe needs to wake up and start accepting that square pegs do not fit in round holes. Curtail Islamic immigration. Show the angry ones the door.
222
This. Instead of debating endlessly whether Islam is or isn't violent, we should be discussing how compatible it is with our fundamental values, and what that means to us.
People want to pretend multiculturalism is all about insignificant things like what holidays people celebrate or what they eat or how they dress. The real issue is how a free democratic society can absorb people who reject its bedrock principles. If I lived in France, I would feel very threatened.
People want to pretend multiculturalism is all about insignificant things like what holidays people celebrate or what they eat or how they dress. The real issue is how a free democratic society can absorb people who reject its bedrock principles. If I lived in France, I would feel very threatened.
65
...Except that your argument falls apart when one considers that all three of the attackers were born and raised in France. The brothers grew up in foster care, after their immigrant parents died (it's not clear how) when the brothers were boys. These guys were French: they grew up here (Paris, where I am), went through the French school system. Their radicalization has everything to do with growing up with the politics and economics of racism in a society that has been divisively racist, as well as classicist in a way that would shock Americans, long before they were born. Like centuries. Believe me, societally in terms of opportunity and hierarchy amongst classes and races, not much has changed here, it's just a little more covert.
9
Wow! I am very surprised that Aristotle's comment is the most highly recommended comment. I am an American (New Yorker) who has been working and living in Paris for the last 15 years. I do not agree with Aristotle's point 4) above. My friends in France (including my close Jewish friends) feel that the article that most accurately depicts the situation is one written by Juan Cole. I do not know if the NYT allows me to post links to other articles but here is an except - "Many Muslim immigrants in the post-war period to France came as laborers and were not literate people, and their grandchildren are rather distant from Middle Eastern fundamentalism, pursuing urban cosmopolitan culture such as rap and rai. In Paris, where Muslims tend to be better educated and more religious, the vast majority reject violence and say they are loyal to France.
Al-Qaeda wants to mentally colonize French Muslims, but faces a wall of disinterest. But if it can get non-Muslim French to be beastly to ethnic Muslims on the grounds that they are Muslims, it can start creating a common political identity around grievance against discrimination." Google "Sharpening Contradictions - why al-Quaeda attacked Satirists in Paris".
The terrorists who murdered last week did not have an Islamic education. They had a French education. They are fanatics that were corrupted at a relatively late age.
Al-Qaeda wants to mentally colonize French Muslims, but faces a wall of disinterest. But if it can get non-Muslim French to be beastly to ethnic Muslims on the grounds that they are Muslims, it can start creating a common political identity around grievance against discrimination." Google "Sharpening Contradictions - why al-Quaeda attacked Satirists in Paris".
The terrorists who murdered last week did not have an Islamic education. They had a French education. They are fanatics that were corrupted at a relatively late age.
10
I hope that the French will also be guarding the mosques of those Moslem sects (like the Al-Mahdi branch of Islam) that are also considered by such groups as ISIS to be symbols of apostasy. The real question must be, "how long will these troops be deployed for and what happens when the deployment ends?"
19
I hope that the security measures put in place will also protect the Muslim residents of France just going about their peaceful business. Since these events, there have been a number of attacks on individual Muslims and on Muslim sites.
I think that it is sad that such terrible things must happen before actions are taken but i do hope that this will at least help with the situation.
2
France and the rest of the world should deploy troops to ferret out the radicals and remove them from civilized society. They could do it now or they may be forced to do it later when they are outnumberd. This problem is going to get worse and everyone knows it.
14
What is getting worse is right wing rhetoric which sees this as the start of a new "decadal long war". Examine the motives of those who trump the fear card and you'll find that your rights might be on the chopping block next.
This is especially so in Europe which as a whole has been incompetently managed for the past 7 years. Note the policies of Europe's version of austerity that has now threatening a deflationary spiral threating to ruin what is left European middle class because of exploding debt. Lot of threats in Europe with none of them having squat to do with "terrorism".
This is especially so in Europe which as a whole has been incompetently managed for the past 7 years. Note the policies of Europe's version of austerity that has now threatening a deflationary spiral threating to ruin what is left European middle class because of exploding debt. Lot of threats in Europe with none of them having squat to do with "terrorism".
2
I hope they include mosques on their list of sensitive sites. This is exactly what the terrorists want btw. Is anyone else in the usa after 9/11 quoting yogi? 'Deja vu all over again'.
First time as tragedy second time as farce....
First time as tragedy second time as farce....
3
I wonder whether the "sensitive" sites include mosques, and other Islamic public venues from potential right-wing revenge attacks.
5
They should, because there have already been a lot of revenge attacks on mosques. Nobody killed yet, but shots fired and homemade bombs hurled, and it's only a matter of time before someone gets killed. And of course the revenge killing of some blameless Muslims at prayer will generate more terrorist attacks.
5
Guard the mosques to make sure the radicals inside aren't promoting radical Islam.
12
This is virtually unprecedented in peacetime. I only hope things can return to relatively normal soon and France can enjoy their freedoms in peace. To maintain a heavy security prescence for a long period of time might make some believe this a victory of sorts for terrorists. Then again the French government is damned if they do and damned if they don't.
22
"This is virtually unprecedented in peacetime."
Peacetime? Islam has declared war on the west, or haven't you noticed?
8 serious terror incidents in the last 3 weeks in France. If this is not a war, what is?
Peacetime? Islam has declared war on the west, or haven't you noticed?
8 serious terror incidents in the last 3 weeks in France. If this is not a war, what is?
7
Yes, on the long run any inactive armed person degrades in ability to provide any security at all, so it is more efficient to allow everybody to own guns instead.
I would like to see result of attack if something like that happens in TX.
I would like to see result of attack if something like that happens in TX.
I somewhat agree; soldiers can't maintain such a heavy security presence for a long period of time, but why can't a few soldiers, or better yet, policemen be posted at synogogues, schools, and other places where Jews congregate. Hopefully, this will lessen the fear factor among Jews, and perhaps the cretins who perpetrate crimes against Jews in France will actually be caught.
Anyway, where were the French police when all these marchers screeming "Jews out", "Jews to the gas chambers", etc. Where were they when individuals and couples were physically attacked for being Jewish? And where were they when Jews were being kidnapped, tortured and killed (primarily by Muslims) in the past few years? Get on the stick guys if you have any sense of decency!
Anyway, where were the French police when all these marchers screeming "Jews out", "Jews to the gas chambers", etc. Where were they when individuals and couples were physically attacked for being Jewish? And where were they when Jews were being kidnapped, tortured and killed (primarily by Muslims) in the past few years? Get on the stick guys if you have any sense of decency!
7
France and the millions of French people won the solidarity of the world leaders and put on a spectacular show of unity and commitment to French values of Liberty, Equality and Fraterrnity. In cold political terms, I would not read much into it. I could see Sarkozy inserting his head from in between the front line of the chain of world leaders walking hand in hand, which included the French president Hollande. the German chancellor, the British PM, King and Queen Rania of Jordan, Israeli PM, Palestinian leader Abbas and many more. The French will digest and undergo retrospection of the violent atrocity on the courageous cartoonists and the murder of freedom of expression, the quick and decisive resolution of the hostage situation, the unacceptable barbaric expression of antisemitism which is on the rise not just in France but in Europe, the employment situation and decide who will best represent France in the current circumstances in upcoming relations. There will be considerable debate and President Hollande will have to explain failure of intelligence and failure to avert the brutal massacre of Charlie and his colleagues. Give France space to mourn and beef up its security and then let the chips fall where they may with regard to the politics and speculation of who will gain politically. Antisemitism has to stop immediately and the new efforts by France are a step in the right direction. Jews cannot live in fear anywhere. Enough is enough.
17
Rather than deploying 10,000 troops deploy a few police officers to round up the most extreme religious preachers for inciting violence because according to news reports the terrorists did not radicalize themselves. They each had someone egging them on.
101
Sounds like something like censorship. We could only read and listen to items approved by the government. Sounds like countries(Egypt?) where they can lock you up for years for criticizing the government. France has a very aggressive foreign policy in Muslim parts of Africa. Maybe the best course of action is to stay out foreign Civil wars.
Restrict their freedom of speech you say?
So you round up the preachers who are inciting violence and hatred inside France, but what about the extremists on the internets? You can't shut the internets down, because the internets are on computers these days.
Among the French authorities broad array of measures to protect all of the good people of France, should be a team of intelligence offers, who not only monitor internet activity, but also officers who document and prosecute individuals who advocate the slaughter of police officers or innocent civilians.
University teachers and students who demand Shari Law might be provided a partial scholarship to study in Saudi Arabia with a one way ticket.
Clerics who advocate violence might also benefit from a sabbatical in Mecca and a one way boat ticket.
No nation can afford to provide thousands of military soldiers and police to monitor the hundreds of thousands of angry dangerous Islamic militants, who openly claim France to be their conquered territory, and fly the flag of Islam.
France must consider the legal expenses, police salaries, and the loss of individual loss of income, resulting from future terrorist activities, which shut down the entire nation. The monarchs of old also had lofty ideals of governance, but if memory serves us, the people of France grew weary of oppression and starvation and rose up against their leaders and made use of the guillotine.
Any individuals who travel abroad to train with military weapons need to depart from all of Europe and North America. More importantly, all individuals and organizations, and banks who fund these terror summer camp expeditions must also be expelled from all of Europe.
University teachers and students who demand Shari Law might be provided a partial scholarship to study in Saudi Arabia with a one way ticket.
Clerics who advocate violence might also benefit from a sabbatical in Mecca and a one way boat ticket.
No nation can afford to provide thousands of military soldiers and police to monitor the hundreds of thousands of angry dangerous Islamic militants, who openly claim France to be their conquered territory, and fly the flag of Islam.
France must consider the legal expenses, police salaries, and the loss of individual loss of income, resulting from future terrorist activities, which shut down the entire nation. The monarchs of old also had lofty ideals of governance, but if memory serves us, the people of France grew weary of oppression and starvation and rose up against their leaders and made use of the guillotine.
Any individuals who travel abroad to train with military weapons need to depart from all of Europe and North America. More importantly, all individuals and organizations, and banks who fund these terror summer camp expeditions must also be expelled from all of Europe.
90
Edgar Davidson: Israeli PM: "France has right to exist - but response is disproportionate" (satire)
In the light of the tit-for-tat war between Muslim freedom fighters and French police - which has claimed the lives of 3 Muslims in the last few days - The Prime Minister of Israel reaffirmed his strong commitment to the French State by asserting "I believe that France has a right to exist". He warned, however, that Israeli support for France's right to exist was no longer guaranteed if the French continued with their disproportionate response against Muslims.
PM Netanyahu said: We cannot sit idly by and witness the French launch these horrific bombings and shootings against outnumbered Muslim fighters as we witnessed in Paris and Northern France yesterday. The brutal killing of 3 Muslims in these attacks is inflaming Muslim feelings around the world, especially as only one French police officer was killed.
The French government has to understand that there is no military solution to this conflict. They should immediately abide by the UN resolution we proposed last week to evacuate all non-Muslim French from occupied Paris, handing it over to the elected representatives of the moderate wing of ISIS. After all, the Government of Israel officially removed ISIS from the list of designated terrorist organisations last month, so the French no longer have any legal basis for not negotiating their evacuation from Paris.
In the light of the tit-for-tat war between Muslim freedom fighters and French police - which has claimed the lives of 3 Muslims in the last few days - The Prime Minister of Israel reaffirmed his strong commitment to the French State by asserting "I believe that France has a right to exist". He warned, however, that Israeli support for France's right to exist was no longer guaranteed if the French continued with their disproportionate response against Muslims.
PM Netanyahu said: We cannot sit idly by and witness the French launch these horrific bombings and shootings against outnumbered Muslim fighters as we witnessed in Paris and Northern France yesterday. The brutal killing of 3 Muslims in these attacks is inflaming Muslim feelings around the world, especially as only one French police officer was killed.
The French government has to understand that there is no military solution to this conflict. They should immediately abide by the UN resolution we proposed last week to evacuate all non-Muslim French from occupied Paris, handing it over to the elected representatives of the moderate wing of ISIS. After all, the Government of Israel officially removed ISIS from the list of designated terrorist organisations last month, so the French no longer have any legal basis for not negotiating their evacuation from Paris.
10
Amusing AND apropos -- not so easy!
And as long as the powers-that-be are careful to only target those that have made it clear that they'd like to stay right where they are but would prefer to live in the 7th century instead of the 21st, it seems rather reasonable to me -- absent a time machine -- to help them get to where the calendar, restrictions on freedom, range of punishable offenses, and the Christo-like wrapping of women are more to their liking.
And as long as the powers-that-be are careful to only target those that have made it clear that they'd like to stay right where they are but would prefer to live in the 7th century instead of the 21st, it seems rather reasonable to me -- absent a time machine -- to help them get to where the calendar, restrictions on freedom, range of punishable offenses, and the Christo-like wrapping of women are more to their liking.
1
Jerry, Brilliant and biting satire. But then, I should expect nothing less from another Jerry in NY.
1
I'm an Obama supporter and I'm shocked that he was not at the rally on Sunday. How could he (and Kerry) have been so "deaf, dumb and blind"?
82
Me, too. It's inexplicable that he -- or at least Vice President Biden or Sec'y Kerry -- weren't there. Was this a considered decision or a lapse in judgment and priorities? This is certainly the most extreme and significant ramping-up of attacks against the West, our values and culture, since 9/11. Its targeting of specific groups of that society by native-born terrorists with international jihadist backing makes that clear. Where was the United States?
6
Biden was in the Senate doing the head of senate thing; Kerry was in India to prep for Obama's visit there.
1
He just apologized, but that's too little and too late.
10
It is a sad day for France and every Western nation. Our political correctness and our cowardice disguised as open mindedness will set the tone for our interaction with rabid minorities. 98% of the Times and NPR readers did not want to see the cartoons. But in the wake of the killings and Terrorists threatening to kill free speech-I want those cartoon published, not to provoke my Muslim friends, but to collectively thumb our noses at the fanatics in our midst. Mainstream liberal media could have found a way but our cowardice seeped through. I do not have a positive view of how things will turn out between Muslims and the west, in general (and I desperately hope, I'm wrong).
95
The Pope was probably most forthright in his words about Islamic fundamentalism. As a Jew I won't get my message out without heavy censoring, but the Pope is correct - these extremists have edited G-d out of their existence. I don't think they even worship the Prophet; they worship his warrior/bloodshed track record. That has become their god; the power of the sword. If this doesn't send shivers down the spines of honest, believing Muslim leaders, nothing else will. I think the Pope, too, was alluding to the history of how the Church murdered tens of thousands of Jews during the Middle Ages (not just during the Inquisition years) and later. It was definitely motivated by sheer power, not religious piety.
13
Jack, you can always post them on your own website or in your front yard to show solidarity.
4
They were published by the NYT, in a manner of speaking. Did you see this video? Many of the cartoons can be seen pasted on the wall. My favorite is the riff on Magritte's famous "Ceci n'est pas une pipe" ("This is not a pipe"), to a drawing of the head of The Prophet surmounted on a pipe with the caption "Ceci n'est pas le portrait du prophet" ("This is not a portrait of the prophet").
http://www.nytimes.com/video/opinion/100000003439513/charlie-hebdo-befor...
http://www.nytimes.com/video/opinion/100000003439513/charlie-hebdo-befor...
3
So they are militarizing their cities...looks like a bad idea since it can agitate the general population and make mistakes easier.
12
And recruit more youth to radical Islam...it's all so predictable!
4
For the first time, police and military were thanked by the people marching yesterday. They were cheered, applauded, with joy by some of the 4million people in the streets , to thank them for their courage and resolution of this horrible week
9
Should we let more Jews be slaughtered? Jews are less than 1% of the population of France and the victims of more than 50% of the hate crimes. It is not a coincidence.
25
Even though Canada has had 2 fatalities caused by mentally ill homeless drifters who have been falsely labelled as "terrorists by the harper government, Canada is planning on doing the same as France and much more. The harper government s threatening to pass legislation that will eviscerate the rights and freedoms of ordinary Canadians. He is trumping the fear card because there is a national election in 2015. Shameless fear mongering and corruption to the core.
13
Really it was a spectacular solidarity show of more than a million human beings condemning in one words TERRORISM against innocent human beings, but sadly when the civilized world is closing her eyes and souls of more than 10,000 innocents killed, more than 25,000 kidnapped and are being tortured in the jungles of Nigeria, by the BOKO HARAM goons, and it is almost continues on daily basis, it appears that the civilized world has double meaning of compassion, freedom, justice and humanity. Unless the world will stand up on one voice to all atrocities, innocent killings, war crmes, crimes against humanity and state sponsored Terrorism against helpless and powerless, new growth of terrorists will continue in the world.
To start with, the U. N. should seriously investigate the main factors of the growth of Jihadis and whether the declared and undeclared wars have contributed to this growth, and how to stop it.
To start with, the U. N. should seriously investigate the main factors of the growth of Jihadis and whether the declared and undeclared wars have contributed to this growth, and how to stop it.
37
"10,000 innocents killed, more than 25,000 kidnapped and are being tortured..."
Add another 100,000 and more innocents killed in Iraq and Syria.
Add another 100,000 and more innocents killed in Iraq and Syria.
2
Rosy, don't hold your breath. The UN is a joke.
3
The UN is far too busy condemning the human rights record of Israel to worry about any of the millions who are affected by Islamic extremism.
8