Obama’s Community-College Plan: A Reading List

One interesting point which none of the other writers have addressed is the impact on 4-colleges and universities.
In conversations with some folks, who teach at a community college, many individuals in 4-year colleges take courses at the community college to save money.
I suspect that individuals who might enrolled as freshman in 4-college, might instead choose to take their freshman and sophomore years at a community college (or much of as possible).
If the enough individual choose the community college route, what happen to financial position of 4-year colleges?

Education is not "free." While I applaud President Obama's effort to attract more students to college who might not otherwise enroll, the details of this plan might have the unintended effect of devaluing higher learning by emphasizing the first two years, and, at the same time, creating a low level track for low income students who could thrive in baccalaureate education. Federal financial aid should help students in need, not discriminate against students based on the kind of school they choose. The best thing the federal government can do to help more students attend college is to keep the Pell Grant levels moving up with inflation, and restore year-round Pell with no artificial limits.

I am currently a Community College student, I work for the City and would probably be considered middle class. I find it difficult to pay for college and books and maintain the cost of major necessities. As a middle class citizen you are just that.... in the middle. You make too much for subsidized or too little for education, housing etc....but yet we are taxed high and receive less than the rich. It was mentioned about the unbalance between high income students and low income students in regards to education but this has been the reality for many years and it is prevalent in so many facets of our everyday life. In 2014 I paid a total of $6000 in tuition and books, exhausted 3 pension loans and still maintain household expenses that totaled $30,000. Oh and I failed to mention the $1688.78 monthly tax deduction from check. There are many who sacrifice, a sacrifice that landed me in housing court twice last year. I hope this proposal will pass, it would be extremely beneficial.

Community Colleges have dismal success rates. There are many reasons for this, the economic insecurity of many of their students is an importsnt one, but not the only one. The others include academic unpreparedness and low motivation of many young students who might prove to be serious about their education at 23, but aren't at 18. Another reason for low success rates, quite frankly, is that many CCs follow the Wal-Mart labor model, so students are taught by an always changing army of underpaid, exploited adjuncts, and are therefore less likely to be connected with the kind of consistent mentoring that increases their chances of success. The kinds of institutions that would be most damaged by this plan are teaching-focused, affordable but not free, non-elite public and private institutions, many of which would end up closing their doors if this plan were universally implemented. As it is, the plan would incentivize an average student to choose an institution where only 12 percent ever go on to complete a 4-year degree, over a nearby teaching focused four year institution which relies primarily on full time faculty, has stronger and more consistent mentoring support, and has a student success rate in the 55-75 percent range. In what world is that progress?

"The rising cost of college may be the single greatest barrier to prosperity, upward mobility and global competitiveness in the United States today. Nothing less than the American Dream is at stake. To facilitate access to higher education, we propose the following: a scholarship fund that provides a completely free public higher education to the top 2 percent of graduates at every public high school in America."

From: http://www.tampabay.com/opinion/columns/advancing-educational-opportunit...

2 years of CC for thee; trad'l 4 years of HE for me? A beautiful, uplifting proposal if its consequence were to shift the cost of job training and periodic up-skilling away from working adults, even if more of that cost might properly belong to employers. But that, apparently, is not the idea. Only full-time students can benefit and only for 2 years. How many (young) people will be advantaged and how many will be disadvantaged - by being compelled to start w/a lower-quality CC experience - will depend on the extent to which this program displaces/replaces other forms of aid and access. Although it's hard not to see that displacement as a next step, one that could leave the academy and the education of the populace too responsive to market forces, it's too soon to tell. Looking forward to the details.

Given the choice between having education basically "stop" for 70% of high school graduates whose families either cannot afford standard four year college tuition, or due that the HS grads are not adequately prepared for the regular route, it appears that the CC funding effort is worth the investment. Maybe it's not the best solution in terms of an investment for a host of CC student wannabe's who don't understand the level of discipline and commitment necessary to learn at a rate conducive to completing their degrees in rigorous four year colleges. But for those students who have the intelligence and stamina, but not the funds, to attempt to improve themselves and seek a better, more challenging life as adults, the presence of such a program will keep the flame burning, and afford the rest of us of the talents that these students will bring to the table over the long haul.

Community colleges are bad public investment. Thirty-five percent of CC students drop out within one semester. Only 15% receive bachelors' degrees. Community colleges are over-managed with huge percentages of classroom instruction delivered by occasional adjunct instructors. This is not speculation. I taught at CCs for thirteen years. In my state, taxpayers spend $1.7B annually on CC instruction for benefits to students and society that are marginal. There are fifty-eight colleges in North Carolina and many have multiple campuses. The $1.7B excludes the capital expenses and real estate investment. The building of CCs boomed after 2008 when online education should have reduced expenses.

The great associates' degree giveaway (long promised at 6 million more degrees) sounds like a plan, but it is merely pandering to that potion of the electorate who are not ready for college. Twenty-five percent of CC expenditures are remedial programs. These expenses need to be redirected to K12 institutions. Only thirty percent are spent of certification programs. This is the original purpose of the CC and the only role that it fills effectively. University Transfer programs consume the remaining budget. Here the vast majority of students fail to receive degrees.

If you have wondered why the information received on CC success is anecdotal or raw numbers out of context there is a reason. Be cautious before you give your support to this rash give-away.

www.adjunctularnoodling.com

WA State passed the College Bound Scholarship program in 2008 with a bipartisan legislature vote of 46-0. Students who qualify for free or reduced lunch, sign up by 8th grade and maintain a grade point in high school can receive 4 years of free tuition and books at any public university in the state. The program has reduced the college grad income gap in the state.

Our state needs more college grads because today, many come from out of state to fill good jobs.

Fantastic, and about time! The government gave us NAFTA, and now it can give people the tools to compete in a global economy. We're competing with workers in countries Where higher education is free.

Education should be free, and this is a good start.

it's all about investment in human capitol

I've become concerned about so much government involvement in our lives. Obama Care has extracted our medical chart, which use to be held privately in the hands of our doctors, and moved it to gigantic databases overseen by the federal government. Our health care will become more and more something defined by the government. We know that NSA monitors every phone call and internet usage of all America.The GAO reported that "Our survey of 128 federal departments and agencies on their use of data mining," That data mining includes credit cards, telephone and internet to just name a few. Now education will come under federal oversight as they can dictate what is learned because they are paying for it. Community colleges are just that, community, not national. There are ways to help students get an education. But I worry when the Feds have their hands on all our communication, all of our health care, and all of what we learn. Beware of the Greeks and the government when they come bearing gifts.

The perceived need for more than thirteen years of universal education is the result of the fact that often so little of values in those first thirteen years. That, in turn, is often the result of the wide-spread impression that nothing done until after those first thirteen, that is in "college", is of any significant economic, or even educational, worth.

The solution to our education problems lies more in making the thirteen years of compulsory education of greatly more significance than in adding to the number of years in the classroom.

Dumb. About half of four-year graduates end up in jobs that don't require college, and most community-college enrollees require remedial learning.

We already hollowed out America pursuing the dream of high-paying white-collar jobs for everyone - and look at the mess we've made. An anemic economy, weakened ability to take care of ourselves, and deficits from sea to sea. This would only make things worse.

Some community college students were high school dropouts who enter community college programs which promise a GED along with college credits, for satisfactory academic performance. These are some of the students who enter community college completely unprepared academically, with little to no family support; and can become easily overwhelmed. Obama's plan may provide additional support for these students, and also more vocational type certificate programs for this population. Some other economically disadvantaged students who might have a GED or a high school diploma do not have parents or other family members who have attended college and have limited information. These students sometimes take on large student loans to enroll in highly advertised very expensive for-profit colleges. Obama's plan will hopefully reduce the waste of federally secured educational loans to these predatory for-profit schools, as more of these students will hopefully opt for community college knowing it will be completely free.

Why does this article ignore the experience in California. Until the 90's California community colleges were free. It was possible to obtain an education or to take courses with minimal cost. What happened and why?

Of course it is useful politically to offer *free* anything to people you want to enlist as supporters of your political party.

And then there is the experience of the City University of New York, once the home of the most alumni Nobel Prize winners, when they were forced into an open admission program and found that most freshmen required substantial remedial math and reading instruction. How does City rank now?

And, of course, it is essential when promoting this scheme to ignore the FACT that there are thousands, if not tens of thousands, of college educated graduates, often with STEM majors, who are unemployed or underemployed today.

Why is the administration ignoring reality for yet another pie in the sky political scheme?

Is there really a shortage currently of people wasting time in community colleges?

When it comes to education programs or programs to help other people be lifted, some middle-class folks start screaming about how money will be taken out of their pockets. And yet, when it comes to war and buying war toys, these same folks stand quietly by. An investment in education helps us all in the long run.

The GI Bill, they say, was an important factor in the economic boom of the 1950s and 1960s. Our problems are different now, and the context of the world economy is different too. Still, maybe this would be a shot in the arm for the US economy. We need something to jump-start it. A broader base of young adults with higher skills in reading, writing, communication, math and science could engender new ideas for new kinds of goods and services, and the means to implement them, that would employ more people and enrich everyone's life.

There are a few questions here that need to be addressed. One is today only about 25% of community college students graduate over a three year measurement period. We send over 40% of our undergraduate college students to communities colleges today and unfortunately many do not graduate.

Currently state and local taxpayers provide $75 billion to the public university system each year to fund their annual losses, that comes out to about $8,000 per year per student. So when you add that subsidy to the about $4,000 in annual community college tuition the actual cost is about$12,000 per year to attend a community college.

Studies by the Delta project find the cost of each community college degree granted in the country is $46,000 per degree.

So adding 9 million new student to the system would probably tack on another $40 billion from taxpayers to support our failing community college system.

Unfortunately the public nor the politicians want to deal with the issues. Maybe we should also start working to help students entering community college to be prepared and not requiring remedial areas of studies that they should have mastered in high school.

I support public education - but making it all free without fixing the problems and charging state and local taxpayers seems to be a folly that politicians just love to promote......

Free??? Nothing is FREE. The middle class will take it in the shorts once again. I see a 20 trillion dollar deficit before this guy is done.

With so many college graduates either unemployed or under-employed why is there a need to throw even more money this way?

Obviously, the labor force is suffering from other problems like a low minimum wage, off-shoring and an over-supply of illegal labor. These are the problems the government needs to focus on.

My reaction to President Obama's plan is colored by my experience at a local community college, Montgomery County Community College. I was fortunate to graduate from Barnard College. While taking a computer class, I wandered in the hallways and overheard instruction. All too often I heard information that I was taught in a public high school. Business Math turned out to be third or fourth grade arithmetic. I did not hear critical thinking skills being taught. Decent local four year colleges were granting academic credit for non college level material.

Perhaps these eager students will encounter profs who teach critical thinking skills and present material of some complexity at a four year college. I returned home and telephoned Congressional staffers. My education was only possible because of generous financial grants and much encouragement. I grew up in a working to poor neighborhood. When should students be taught true college level material? I have no answers. My inner city high school was bleak. The community college had an encouraging and attractive atmospehre. We live in a global economy. Americans must compete.

Mr. Leonardt is correct. Times have changed. The higher education system, including its funding mechanisms, has not. What the President is proposing and what Governor Haslam is implementing in TN is much more that making community college tuition free. It brings more accountability to the students. It brings more resources to students, especially the mentors they must meet with regularly. It brings more accountability to the community colleges. It establishes systems to separate out remediation from a college education, so that community colleges are not trying to do the impossible and teach college level material to students whose reading, writing, and math skills are well below those required to learn at that level. Finally, I would not totally discount the idea of a Republican Congress enacting legislation that would assist the proliferation of programs like that in TN. The two key Republican legislators, Senator Lamar Alexander and Congressman John Kline, are very smart, very familiar with both the good and not so good of higher education, understand the need to educate more people and train them better, and understand how the cost issues which a few decades ago primarily impacted lower income students now impact lower middle income and middle income students. Our parents ensured we got a college education and were prepared to succeed in the last half of the 20th Century. We need to promise succeeding generations that they will be prepared for the 21st Century.