It’s Plastic Foam Packaging, Not the Food, That’s to Go Under a New York Rule

Jan 08, 2015 · 106 comments
Cedarglen (USA)
Biodegradable/compost-suitable 'foam' containers have been available for years. Why not use them? Cost? In my experience, New Yorkers do not pay much attention to cost and will never know the difference.
Is the City prepared to offer foam users information and details about suitable substitutes? If not, the darn sure should be!!
b. lynch black (the bronx, ny)
my mother said when she was a child, her father used to have a can that he purchased specifically for bringing beer from the pub home. why can't we start using our own containers at food carts and take away store fronts? someone should manufacture reuseable containers that are made to a standard measure for taking food away -- something like stacking bento boxes, or even little lunch boxes and liquid contaienrs. the vendors can then sell their wares by volume -- 8 oz containers, so much, 16 oz containers so much, etc. or by the ounce or pound. it could start another whole line of businesses of environmentally friend carry out containers!
Charles (San Jose, Calif.)
When I wanted to take home my leftovers at a Santa Cruz restaurant, instead of a plastic or foam take-out container I was given a paper plate, with the food on it, with a tinfoil covering. It was impossible to drive home with it. The solution: order less food on subsequent visits, and tip less.
Erez Schnaittacher (New York)
This is so overdue, just like super-sized sodas. Except the super-sized sodas were a danger to the human body, the abundance of foam containers is harmful to our environment. Hopefully this does not negatively impact small-business owners, the city should offer a lending hand in the form of subsidies to shoulder this monetary burden. Fines on businesses that violate this mandate should be distributed to those who do as an incentive. Street meat will now get an elevated branding image with this! Oh the possibilities!
Hilary Cathcart (Bronx, NY)
Good. Now let's move on to plastic bags...
Nat (NYC)
Though there may be legitimate reasons to oppose landfills, according to the EPA and US Forest Service, landfill capacity in the U.S. is generally not a problem.
anastasi (NJ)
It's about time! I try to avoid the clamshells - they don't seal well, and my food leaks out. When I can get through a language barrier, some vendors are more than happy to let me use my reusable container, unfortunately, others don't understand my request...
mary (atl)
I hate all the plastics, styrofoam included, that pervade our society today. I'm stunned at the amount of plastic used in just about everything I buy. And, without a law, many are using alternatives already.

But it would seem that July 1 is a steep order. de Blasio doesn't get this as he doesn't run a business or understand all the costs involved with making even small changes. Delaying this out to July 1, 2016 even has it's challenges, but at least gives time. What I don't understand is the exemptions offered to non-profits (BTW non-profits are some of the wealthiest 'companies' in the country) and those making less than $500K a year. Where did that come from? If this is being done for the good of the city, then why the exemptions? And whose to say that a business making $700,000 won't face financial hardship in making the change?

No law should pick winners and losers. If the financial hardships are high, then the law needs a re-work.
Erez Schnaittacher (New York)
This is similar to any regulatory change in an industry. Those that transition, and for good reason, will and should be rewarded and given incentives. Those that violate will be penalized. Those faced with a capital burden should qualify and apply for government subsidy. Let's hope the city is proactively engaging with these folks and doesn't just react to the repercussions that will present obstacles.
Don (Rosslyn)
If banning plastic food containers is really "the most ambitious sustainability plan in the nation", we really need to solve gravity. #interstellar
B Dawson, the Furry Herbalist (Eastern Panhandle WV)
Here is my objection to these piecemeal bans. We ban t-shirt style grocery store bags while ignoring all the garbage can liners, bread wrappers and zip locks. We ban the styro clamshells while ignoring the meat trays, egg cartons, non-recylcable formed plastic inside cardboard cookie boxes and the tiny items that are over-packaged to deter theft. More and more recycling centers will only accept 1, 2 & 3 plastics because overseas markets no longer have the capacity to store the other numbered plastics; there is no market for them.

So why are these narrow bans popular? Politicians like visible targets that are easy to turn into campaign issues. Environmental groups can more easily sell a ban that affects only a limited number of targets. If you ban the highly visible "plastic jellyfish" that are seen on the side of the road & point the finger at big box stores like evil Walmart, then it's far easier to get that ban than if you point the finger at our throwaway society who values convenience over anything else.

Make no mistake, I don't shop at Walmart and will never defend them. I take my reusable bags to every small business I shop at whether the grocery or hardware store.

When you get around to banning non-recylcable plastic as a whole or requiring the switch to plant based plastics, let me know. I'll campaign for it! Until then, I'll do my part to NOT use the stuff.
Andre (New York)
Your goals are nice but not realistic. A step by step approach is more manageable. Even wih recyclers - if there is no money to be made - there is no business.
CMR (Northport, NY)
"We ban t-shirt style grocery store bags while ignoring all the garbage can liners, bread wrappers and zip locks." Are you old enough to have lived without these? If you haven't experienced the joy of washing stinking garbage cans out in the summer and wondering what to do with the rinse filth, you're in for a very unpleasant surprise if your wish ever comes true.
ejzim (21620)
Good deal. I prefer to buy products in packaging that can be recycles. Any company that uses plastic: TAKE NOTE! It makes a difference to me when I make my buying decisions.
MOL (New York)
Hail, Hail the wicked Styrofoam container is dead. Good bye and good riddance. All you naysayers, have you heard of a microwave?
Jonathan (NYC)
Who is going to enforce this law? The police aren't doing anything right now. If they're not giving tickets to turnstile jumpers and double parkers, they're certain not going to raid fast-food establishments.
Marcus (Charleston, SC)
Plastic water bottles next please!
Gil Harris (Manhattan)
More moronic politically correct nonsense---everyone get ready for cold food.
Yeti (NYC)
Does that mean more trees will be cut?
Sandy (Boston)
Trees are our renewable resource. More trees can be planted. Morre plastic means more unrecycled/unrecyclable trash.
Jonathan (NYC)
Paper is now made from bushes grown on farms. They grow in a year or two.

The only paper that requires trees is toilet paper, which needs long fibers to be soft.
ejzim (21620)
And they are beginning to use recycled paper.
C in NY (NY)
This is such great news. Plastic foam is a scourge in many neighborhoods. It flows out of garbage cans and accumulates on the streets, contributing to the enormous amount of litter that can be seen everywhere but where there are doorman buildings. Bravo to both mayors.
seeing with open eyes (usa)
Does this ban include use in grocery stores/supermarkets? These businesses use lots of styrofoam to package meat products; eggs are in sytrofoam cartons now too.
ajax (W. Orange New Jersey)
My store has cardboard egg cartons.
Mike (NYC)
We put people on the moon. We can figure out how to keep our coffee and hotdogs warm without messing up the planet.
Dennis (NYC)
We only put a man on the moon when we were trying to beat the USSR. We couldn't do it now.
FTW (Brooklyn, NY)
Hopefully this will apply to the mountains of styrofoam plates our city school children eat off of in NYC public schools every day.
hawk (New England)
EPS is a great source of fuel for a waste to energy plant, especially when it only has to be transported a short distance. This Mayor as well the last are not strategic thinkers. Many municipalities in Europe have invested in waste to energy facilities. In this country there are very few as government officials would rather bury EPS in the ground versus face an angry public when trying to site a plant. One of the most successful plants over the past 30 years is SEMASS in West Wareham MA. It produces more Kilowatts than Cape Wind will ever produce. The only negative is the 5-8 tons of daily trash it consumes is trucked in from the region. Whereas a plant sited in Mahattan would be a short haul.
David (Morristown, NJ)
There is a waste to energy facility in Newark, a short trip from Manhattan. The facility is operated by Covanta.
Mary (New York City)
A good move by the mayor
Casual Observer (Croatia)
This ban is great news.

As an aside, it's surprising how many plastics aren't recycled by cities. Not just the obvious things (plastic utensils, straws, shrink wrap, ketchup wrappers etc.), but a fair number of items with the recycling symbol are tossed. Even if your curbside bin lists numbers 1 - 7 as recyclables, #6 (polystyrene) usually goes to the landfill. And recently I'm seeing a lot more food items such as cups being made out of polystyrene.

The best way is to cut your consumption of plastics where you can, although it's getting pretty hard to do.
ejzim (21620)
Yes, in California, you can recycle virtually all types of plastic. On the Eastern Shore of Maryland, 2 kinds only. Completely unsatisfactory. Get with the 21st century!
Larry Hoffman (Middle Village)
I don't know what the problem has been regarding ridding us of foam containers. The Chinese Restaurants have been using plastic lined take out containers for generations. I am very sure that the paper packaging industry can come up with sufficient products for use. Because I am fairly sure that they already make them.
DLT (New York)
It's worth noting that nonprofits and business earning less than $500K don't automatically get a free pass--they have to apply for the exemption, and presumably prove not using foam products would be a financial hardship. That could be a tough standard to meet, given all the other equally good substitutes for plastic foam.

And though Mayor De Blasio will see it implemented, its really former Mayor Bloomberg who should get the credit for making this happen. I wonder if the current Mayor will him the credit.
NYHuguenot (Charlotte, NC)
Restaurants here seem to prefer plastic containers with lids that are recyclable though many use them to pack lunches and leftovers. I don't know how much they add to the cost of a takeout but they seem to be very practical. The bowls are microwavable though the lids aren't.
Andre (New York)
Of course he won't credit him... That's been a pattern.

As to the "financial hardship"... I think it's a ridiculous standard. If something is not good - money is not an excuse. It's not like it will turn a $5 plate of food into a $10 one.
Will (New York, NY)
Can we next ban plastic bags? It is disgraceful to have all that trash blowing around, hanging in trees and ultimately floating in the oceans.
NYHuguenot (Charlotte, NC)
The plastic bags here are biodegradable. I had some stored in an unprotected place and they deteriorated and fell apart after a few months.
ejzim (21620)
I actually buy biodegradable bags. No reason why businesses can't use them. They're not more expensive.
Nat (NYC)
That doesn't mean they "biodegraded."
Jay (New York)
BUT -- "biodegradable" containers DO NOT BIODEGRADE since almost all of them end up packed in a nearly airtight landfill. And biodegradables take up MUCH more landfill space than foam, which crushes to a fraction of the size.

Also - consider the significant incremental cost (gasoline) required to ship and haul away much heavier biodegradables.
Vikram (Brookline)
Simply not true. Biodegradable means biodegradable. Also, consider that foam containers take up more space and would for require more trucks, ships and/or airplanes to move the same number of biodegradeable containers. Jay, being anti-environment is the wrong direction.
Dennis B (Frankfort, Ky)
To biodegrade the material would need heat and air and most landfills are in fact sealed systems as Jay suggested. I also suggest you try putting a product you get that says that it is biodegradable outside or try burying it and see how long it takes. This would be without even a closed system. This one issue is all I can agree with in Jay's implications.
Danny Fernandez (Brooklyn)
I'm afraid Mr. Vikram's comment is all too typical of the way people think about issues like this--emotively, rather than with any kind of intellectual curiosity. Commenter above him urged analysis of the "big picture" environmental footprint, and curiosity about whether biodegradables actually do biodegrade under landfill conditions. Anybody who has been paying attention to environmental issues knows that mainstream environmental groups have been raising these very concerns since "recycling" and "biodegradability" became household words a quarter-century ago.

The reply to these objections apparently consists of name-calling ("anti-environment") and insightful comments like "biodegradable means biodegradable." Again, it wouldn't be worth picking on if it weren't so sadly typical of debate quality these days.
ronsnyc (NY)
About time we started making a dent in the grotesque amount of synthetic packaging that comes with everything we consume. I hope this is just the start.
Kate (CA)
When I travel I refuse my food and drinks to be in foam containers. They leach chemicals into your food. Do Not put foam containers and cups in the microwave! Carcinogen chemicals leach. Banning them is a win win- for the environment and for your health. Substitute containers work just as well.
Frank Language (New York, NY)
Actually, I carry a stainless-steel tin with me to carry leftovers with me from restaurants and to get takeout. It's leakproof and spillproof, and restauranteurs love me.

I seriously never order delivery because of all the wasteful disposable packaging.
kw, nurse (rochester ny)
We do the same things --take our own container to restaurants,don't order in. One tiny step for the world, one big step for the city!
JARIII (NYC)
Thank everyone who has worked to this end in New York. Your children and grandchildren thank you.
I am dizzy happy that the foam will no longer perform the static electricity game.
atozdbf (Bronx)
"Nonprofits and businesses with less than $500,000 in annual revenue can apply for exemptions".
Well at least the food carts and other street vendors, chinese and burrito take outs, and the local deli are safe from this environmentally friendly upgrade.
Andre (New York)
Exactly. Makes no sense. Though some of those vendors gross more than that
Danny (Brooklyn)
You may want to reread the conditions for those exemptions, and ask yourself if an administration that has already used its executive discretion to decide to apply this rule will be inclined to use its discretion to make it look visibly toothless to every New Yorker passing a halal cart. Also, it is 500K in revenue, not profit. That is not that much these days. It is a low-margin business.
isabella jacob (piermont NY)
California has banned selling single use water bottles. We should too.
marie (san francisco)
where?
AG (new york)
Sorry, I disagree with that. If I'm travelling, and want to pick up a drink at my next gas stop, I don't want to be forced to drink soda instead of water. Much better to add a deposit to all drink containers, so the majority will be returned.
Joshua (Boulder)
The city of Boulder, including organizations like the University of Colorado-Boulder do have a strong zero-tolerance policy for foam food containers, and I have to say that such a policy does have a measurable effect on the environment. It's nice to see a much bigger city like NY following the People's Republic!
Dave (Albuquerque, NM)
"I have to say that such a policy does have a measurable effect on the environment"

Really. What is that effect and how did you measure it.
nyer (NY)
butter or margarine. we changed to plastic and foam to save paper and trees. now we are going back to cardboard and the cycle is complete
Vikram (Brookline)
The difference now vs then is that we are able to recycle the cardboard now. We don't simply throw it into a landfill the way we used to do once upon a time.
Andre (New York)
Not exactly... They can use plastic that can be recycled. Also paper containers sold to food places are most often made from recycled goods
some guy (Brooklyn)
Erm, I'm pretty sure we use plastic and foam because it is cheaper. It has long been known that given the choice of "paper or plastic" the better choice was paper.
isabella jacob (piermont NY)
Next up: Ban plastic shopping bags. Bring your own bags.
MS (CA)
It's already done here in the San Francisco Bay area along with non-foam containers. It took a bit of getting used to but now we have a collection of cloth bags in a variety of places and it's not that much more of a burden to bring along your own bag. Do it, NY!

What I'd like to see someone address is the amount of packaging that is used for all sorts of supermarket products. There's still non-easily-recyclable plastic bags (e.g. for chips, frozen food, etc.) and manufacturers that put their products in paper covered by clear non-recyclable plastic. As a consumer, I've been recycling since the early 1990s but it would be good to hit the source.
CMD (Germany)
Great idea! Over here you can always buy cloth bags. I have a whole supply and put everything in them. If they become dirty, I stick them into the washing machine with my other washables. Of course, for meat or other goods I have small plastic containers; the salespeople here accept the way many others like me do things. I guess Europe is more open to these changes than is the USA, where I got very offended looks from cashiers when I said that I did not need a plastic bag for my purchases as I had a cloth bag.
Jonathan (NYC)
Plastic shopping bags are widely used in NYC as trash can liners. If they were banned, people would just have to buy them in order to have something to put their trash in.
alan (staten island, ny)
Excellent. Thank you Mr. Mayor.
Joel (New York, NY)
If this ban makes sense -- and I think it does -- why include potential exemptions for nonprofits and businesses with less than $500,000 in annual revenue.
Alocksley (New York)
A bit more research would've helped this article. How many take out restaurants will financially qualify for the ban?
Mark (Hartford)
Econ 101 - The limited ban will create a near-term market advantage for alternatives. As the market grows those alternatives will become cheaper and supplant foam anyway.
nick (chicago)
This is great news but since there are a significant number of food businesses that bring in less than $500K the law may not apply to many.

The other environmental issue Americans need to get serious about, particularly as it relates to the degradation of the oceans and marine life, is the excess of plastics in everyday life. Many studies have demonstrated that plastics are not nearly as recyclable as once thought, and essentially do not biodegrade.
stevenjv (San Francisco, Calif)
San Francisco phased out these types of containers some years ago in favor of compostable ones. Polystyrene clearly is not necessary for take out foods or anything else.
Alocksley (New York)
...and where does the composting take place?? Where is all this trash dumped so it has the oxygen to compost?
PogoWasRight (Melbourne Florida)
Speaking as a non-New Yorker, could it be that a leader of New York is displaying common sense? A notable event.............
SocNYC (New York)
Rejoice! Please make sure to enforce that on the different college and school campuses as well. And while we are at it, let's do something about the coffee cups and the plastic lids. My heart bleeds every time I see these heaps of one-time use conveniences all over the city. Bringing your own mug, it is not that difficult!
Nancy Cadet (Fort Greene Brooklyn)
Good job, Mayor deBlasio. That styrofoam stuff stays around for years, pollutes our waterways, and litters our public spaces . There are compostable and reusable containers on the market. So, have I missed the news about a plastic bag ban?
sfdphd (San Francisco)
Here in SF, I eat a lot of take-out food and the containers are all lightweight and either compostable or recyclable plastic. We haven't had foam containers for quite a few years. There really are alternatives to foam if you look for them...
Gail (Boston)
Finally! This is something other cities should follow. Get rid of the stuff!
Susan (Eastern WA)
Yes, kudos to NYC for following the example of cities on the Left Coast!
leftcoast (San Francisco)
let me be the example, thanks!
Save the Farms (Illinois)
You do know it is fairly common practice to cover over sections of landfills with foam - often about 6 inches - to keep the detritus from blowing around as the fill is occurring.

The most valuable thing in a landfill is space, so the use of foam makes sense, because it packs down well under the pressure of the tractors moving and grading the trash. In most landfills, paper products at 25% are about twice the volume of plastic (around 10%) - neither will degrade even if they are biodegradable because once filled, the landfills are capped and sealed against water and air infiltration.

In 400 years or so, the country will be dealing with our current landfills as either "toxic dump sites" in need of remediation, or "valuable sources of raw metals, paper, and plastic."
Ann Gansley (Idaho)
It's about time. WHen it comes to protecting the environment America is light-years behind Europe. Time to realize this is the only planet we have; we better take care of it.
Adam Johnson (Seattle)
Polystyrene food containers have been banned for years in Seattle. The available biodegradable packages are just as good, you'd never know the difference.
third.coast (earth)
if you're ordering delivery and the food arrives luke warm, run it through the microwave for a few seconds. Or learn how to cook.
Gil Harris (Manhattan)
Until the microwave is banned because of more junk science. Enjoy your cold food.
JSH (Louisiana)
Sometimes the easy of modernity needs to take a back seat to long term thinking in regards to maintaining a healthy environment.
Dabblerwilliamb (ct)
Why don't they look into how MRE's the forces use to see if they use something different?
Danny (Brooklyn)
Probably because they used the "I'm feeling lucky" button to find out what MREs actually are.
banzai (USA)
About time. Why do we have to fight over common sense measures? There are no individual rights being trampled here. Plastic based products need to be curtailed for the simple reason that they cannot be recycled or degenerated back to nature in a reasonable amount of time. Period.
Steve F (Seattle WA)
There was an article about a year ago about an upstate company - Ecovative - making a home-compostable foam replacement from corn stalks and fungus, growing it right inside the moulds that will be its final shape.

It seems like a brilliant idea. I for one would LOVE to receive packages that generate zero trash, and would happily bear the slight extra cost. And I would thoroughly enjoy composting it.
Susan (Eastern WA)
There already exist biodegradable packing peanuts. My young students used to enjoy building with them, simply using their tongues to make them stick together. That cornstarch-based foam would not be suitable for food, though.
Steve F (Seattle WA)
But it is! In 2008, Microsoft switched to cornstarch-based dinnerware, including the cutlery.

The quality isn't great, and it has a very short working lifetime (Uri Geller impersonators no doubt love it), but Microsoft immediately went from being a major landfill-filler to being the recipient of an award for being green, and also made a lot of us feel better about eating there. There are very few things I admire about the company, but that is one.
Ally (Minneapolis)
Of course it can't be recycled. What a surprise Dart was lying. Who cares where it ends up when one can make a buck on the production side? Remember, nothing says freedom like our oceans' massive floating gyres of garbage.
Air Marshal of Bloviana (Over the Fruited Plain)
How are the police and other emergency crews going to feed themselves on a busy shift. Many are patrons of small food outlets that offer a fresh hot meal to go on short order. NYC should consider a ban on leftist politicians, de Blasio must go.
Nobody is banning takeout food, just certain types of foam containers. I can assure you that everybody, including emergency workers, manages to eat in San Francisco, Seattle, and Portland. Restaurants just use cardboard, recyclable plastic, or biodegradable containers.
Steve (NYC)
What a ridiculous objection! The food isn't being banned, only this particular type of container. There are many other types of containers that can be used - rigid plastic or coated paper for example - which can be recycled are much more environmentally friendly. This has nothing to do with "leftist politicians" - would you really call Bloomberg leftist? - and everything to do with doing what is right for the planet.
third.coast (earth)
[[How are the police and other emergency crews going to feed themselves on a busy shift. Many are patrons of small food outlets that offer a fresh hot meal.]]

Busy shifts? Cops aren't writing tickets or making arrests, so how is this a problem for them? Based on recent behavior, they can all schedule sit down meals at Zagat rated establishments.
SHJ (Providence RI)
Strong work de Blasio! Controlling pollution on the supply side is the most effective strategy. Now if we could just convince the rest of the country (and all the companies that pack and distribute via Amazon) to follow your example all of our children would benefit. Even iIf you do nothing else in office you have already made a significant difference.
Neal (Westmont)
In 62 shipments from amazon in the last year and 7 days, not a single one has contained foam or foam packing material. I know this from the steadily rising pile of airbags at the foot of my basement stairs where I throw them after opening the boxes. It's a safe bet if I tried to kill myself by falling down the stairs I'd probably just bounce back up.

Perhaps you have a misconception. Or I am an anomaly.
NM (NY)
With municipalities increasingly banning or restricting plastic bags, this is a positive and logical next step. I also hope that publicity around this step will raise awareness nationally that this is another action we can all take.
bb (berkeley, ca)
Foam containers have been banned in Berkeley and maybe all of California for years. Suitable, biodegradable alternatives have been in use as have bio degradable disposable utensils. I think some of the packaging is recyclable. Wake up N.Y. and other states that are still using foam.
Socrates (Verona, N.J.)
If Dart Container Corporation and the American Chemistry Council oppose environmentally harmful foam, doesn't that tell you everything you need to know about foam ?

Great job, Mayor de Blasio - keep up the good work.
Andre (New York)
He's only following the previous administration. Meanwhile e wants to ba horses for no good reason... Now he's added a full range of distraction by allowing cellphones in schools under the guise of "emergency". This guy is all over the place.
Danny Ferndandez (Brooklyn)
"If Dart Container Corporation and the American Chemistry Council oppose environmentally harmful foam, doesn't that tell you everything you need to know about foam ?"

No, it doesn't. Not any more than knowing the John Birch Society opposes our wars in the Middle East. I find this kind of reasoning--and its popularity (it's one of the most liked comments on this page by far!)--rather depressing.
Smotri (New York, New York)
Yes, it is depressing. For me, it's depressing to know that industry, and its various trade groups, predictably will want me, as a consumer and a citizen, to bear all costs - health, environmental and still others - that industry knows and tries its best to shirk.
Mick777 (New York)
This is long overdue! Currently, I refuse to purchase anything packaged in these heinous containers. Thank you Mr. Mayor!