Jan 22, 2020 · 46 comments
northlander (michigan)
What is the sound of one hand adjudicating?
Just Thinkin’ (Texas)
13 current Republican Senators out of the 15 who were Senators in the 1990s voted to convict Bill Clinton at his impeachment trial. So clearly these Republicans believe you can impeach and convict a president even for things that did not serve to undermine the security of our country. And they purportedly did this on the basis of evidence and witnesses that they knew about. They are now presented with an impeached president and again have to weigh the evidence and hear from witnesses. In the Clinton case all the witnesses had been heard before the Senate convened and they made a judgment largely on that basis. In the case today, the president withheld all the evidence and refused to allow witnesses that he could control. It seems reasonable for the Senate to say, even if they now think on the basis of the information they have that Trump is not guilty, that getting some of the most relevant evidence and hearing from the 3 or so most centrally connected witnesses, should be allowed. At worst they spend a few days learning of things that they find inconsequential. We American citizens would certainly feel that, even if we disagree with their judgment, they held a reasonably fair and expeditious trial. Any not guilty verdict would mean a lot more in that case. And we citizens could better judge whether we want those Senators to continue representing us. If Senators cannot do this, they only show how undemocratic they have become in their desire to get their way.
Tracy (Missouri)
This trial is going to go down in the history books as The Great Republican Coverup.
Pottree (Joshua Tree)
Bottom line: things President Trump said and did are considered wrong by Democrats but perfectly fine by Republicans. Democrats are the goody two shoes Boy Scouts and Republicans are a gang of street urchins out of Damon Runyon.
Bob (East Lansing)
If one is looking at this as if it were a criminal trial, (it isn't but just for arguments sake) the question becomes: Does Trump's defense, "I was not getting Dirt on Biden I was legitimately investigating Ukrainian corruption before sending 400 million tax dollars", meet the reasonable doubt standard?
Jake (Chicago)
I wish they had a column for what the Democrats argue given the “evidence for” the various accusations. This article is tilted in favor of GOP arguments. But I guess the NYT has other articles that interpret the evidence from the more Democratic point of view.
AKJersey (New Jersey)
The strongest reason to impeach and convict Trump is that he endangers our National Security by repeatedly and consistently aiding a foreign power, Russia. Secretary Clinton pointed out that Trump is Putin’s puppet. Speaker Pelosi told Trump that all roads lead to Putin with him. They are both entirely correct. Convicted felons Roger Stone and Paul Manafort know the details of this, but they will not talk because Trump promised to pardon them if they keep quiet. Trump’s tax returns would also show that he is in hock to Putin-connected Russian oligarchs, which is why Trump is so desperate to hide his financial records. Mueller was prevented from investigating Trump’s finances by Rod Rosenstein, and William Barr terminated the investigation prematurely. For further information on the Russian conspiracy, see The Moscow Project https://themoscowproject.org/ and The Asset Podcast https://theassetpodcast.org. Remarkably, virtually the entire Republican delegation in Congress is in complete denial of all of this. The GOP has become the Gang of Putin!
Blue in Green (Atlanta)
It's disappointing that McConnell hasn't run a better cover-up than he has so far. Anyone paying attention sees what a sham this trial is. There is no way Mitch will allow witnesses to be called. Trump's defence team of Pat Cipollone and Jay Sekulow have thus far been an embarrassment to the legal profession. Their defence so far has been no defence, but rather a act of bullying Adam Shiff. The Republicans may get their way and acquit Trump without allowing a real hearing of evidence, but they are losing with the public. A majority of the public is in favor of hearing from witnesses and rightly so.
Laura White (Seattle WA)
Thank you for this excellent summary of both sides of the arguments! I especially appreciate the yellow highlighting and suggest, perhaps in a different color, the Democrats position summary also included highlights.
Andrew Roberts (St. Louis, MO)
I like that it's "Evidence For" versus "Republicans Have Argued". It's good that the Times didn't fall into the both-sides trap this time. On one side, we have evidence, precedent, and jurisprudence; on the other, we have word salad.
Yvette74 (N.C.)
NY Times doesn't help by using language such as '...diverge on the facts...' Facts are facts, there's no diverging - there's facts and then there is fantasy. The republicans are spinning an alternate reality full of lies and obfuscation - why does the mainstream media (Times included) insist on 'bothsiderism' - there is no other side to a fact, no other side to the truth. The Dems are presenting a factual accounting of trump's outrageous criminal behavior. The republicans, having no other option, are withholding evidence and witnesses - those are the facts. There is NO other interpretation. For goodness' sake, NY Times, man up. At this point in time, we don't need wishy-washy. We're WAY past that point.
Richard (Savannah Georgia)
In regard to the Obstruction Article, I do not understand why the Findings of the Robert Mueller Report are not introduced to show the President’s proclivity, pattern and practice of obstructing investigations against him.
Michael (Albuquerque)
@Richard The idea is the Mueller evidence is relatively indirect and abstract. It’s clear that the Republicans had convinced enough Americans of that. Rather, they choose a case that forces the Republicans to argue absurd ideas like “the call was perfect,” all the things on the right column, black is white and so forth. The degree to which they have succeeded is telling. The defense has nothing much to do with fact, morals, or decency. The prosecution has nothing to do with winning the case. For each, it has everything to do with shining a light on the other side in preparation for the 2020 elections.
Talbot (New York)
Real Clear Investigations has a fascinating article on the whistleblower and background on the impeachment hearings. Among other things, the whistleblower was Biden's advisor on Ukraine when he was VP. Worth a read
Kyle (NY)
@Talbot Fake news. The whistleblower hasn't been identified.
Talbot (New York)
@Talbot Also, the intelligence analyst who reviewed the original complaint said it was obvious the writer had been "coached" to frame it as grounds for impeachment
Peter (Chicago)
@Talbot Has the identity of the whistleblower been released? Sounds like speculation. Find the person most tied up in Joe Biden who could conceivably have heard about this and allege that’s the source.
Phillip J. Baker (Kensington, Maryland)
The fact that the Republicans were unwilling to agree to subpoena John Bolton -- an individual who truly has first-hand knowledge of the events in question-- clearly proves that they are not fair-minded and unwilling to search for and accept the truth. They have demonstrated themselves to be unfit to hold public office and to be Trump's obedient lackeys. I hope the voters will remember all of this next November.
Henry Crawford (Silver Spring, Md)
This piece shows exactly why Trump has achieved near absolute power. Conservative media (FOX, Sinclair, Clear Channel and a host of Trolls and sketchy internet sites) all take a single position. Mainstream media (NYT, etc.) splits the difference as we see here. This means liberals, democrats and the left get only 1/4 of the public opinion shaping media pie, while the right gets a full 3/4. This media imbalance is the same reason England went for Brexit. Murdoch and his FOX style media pushed and pushed until the United Kingdom was reduced to shambles. We need a return in this country to the fairness and equal time doctrines. As it turns out, the regulatory concerns of the FCC back in the 1930's were completely valid and should not have been removed in the 1990's.
Jared (Grand Rapids, MI)
@Henry Crawford That might take a while, but I hope that balance comes forth, eventually. My philosophy as a person is that social media functions as freedom of speech, but that can only go so far. I would shut down any hyperpartisan websites on either side of the ideological spectrum and leave those that aren't hyperpartisan alone.
Incredulous (Long Beach, California)
@Henry Crawford And in their efforts to be "balanced", the media returned time and time again, when reporting Trump's outrageousness, to Hillary's emails. This was one of the major reasons she was so distrustred by the public and defeated in 2016.
wilt (NJ)
Good piece of legal and political exposition on the impeachment. It will really help interested parties through the maze and diffusion of the president's defense. And as it turns out it will help clarify the reality that with the impeachment,Trump has successfully passed the baton and mantle of 'defendant' to the Republican party. Trump is no longer the sole defendant. He has irrevocably manacled his historical fate to the Republican party. If you think Trump will hold up well in the historical sense, then you likely see the GOP as entering a golden age. 2020's presidential election will be a powerful and sobering reveal for the GOP and Trump's true believers. For the rest of us, the nightmare may finally be over.
Jared (Grand Rapids, MI)
@wilt We can only hope the nightmare is almost over. The GOP's legal arguments and the arguments from the President's defense are full of so many holes that I would understand if you thought they could be Swiss Cheese!
Paul-A (St. Lawrence, NY)
Of course there was "no quid pro quo" in the reconstructed transcript, because the guilty parties were the ones who wrote it. Of course the prosecution has "no first'hand knowledge," because Trump and McConnell won't turn over documents or allow witness who do have first-hand knowledge to testify. Of course the aid was eventually released and the meeting occurred, but only after the corrupt behavior had been discovered and exposed. Of course it's OK for McConnell to not follow proper procedure with Merrick Garland, but then complain that the Dems did so. Meanwhile, many of the defense's statements of "fact" have been contradicted by witnesses during the House hearings; or they don't tell the entire story. But then again, we now live in a country where the Republicans accept "alternative facts" as legitimate, and where their own hypocrisy doesn't matter as long as they get to retain power. Relying on facts and logic now makes you seditious and "unpatriotic." Welcome to our Brave New World. It's pretty frightening.
Jay Orchard (Miami Beach)
The Republicans' claim that Democrats should have gone to the federal courts when witnesses defied the House subpoenas is simply false. In conducting its impeachment inquiry and issuing subpoenas, the House was not just one of two "parties" to a proceeding before a tribunal, it was the tribunal itself. When a trial court or other tribunal orders a witness to appear, the witness does not have the right to ignore the order and tell the tribunal that if it doesn't like it it should appeal to a higher court or tribunal. It is up to the witness to appeal the order and seek a stay of the order pending the appeal. If the witness fails to appeal and fails to obey the order, the witness is in contempt and the tribunal may draw adverse inferences about what the witness would testify to.
Bicycle Bob (Chicago IL)
So by a majority vote, 53-47 additional witnesses were denied. Yes, this will bring more damage and criticism but less than adding more witnesses and testimony. So by a majority vote, 53-47 additional witnesses were denied. Yes, this will bring more damage and criticism but less that adding more witnesses and testimony. So by a majority vote, 53-47 additional witnesses were denied. Yes, this will bring more damage and criticism but less than adding more witnesses and testimony.
bcw (Yorktown)
@Bicycle Bob So none of the supposed moderate Republicans have supported either witnesses or testimony.
Ed the Arithmatic (Outer NJ)
The GOP needs to think about the precedents they are setting presidential behavior. Because... President Warren will call for Ukraine to investigate the large contributions from Ukrainian and Russian oligarchs that were laundered through shell companies. President Biden will call for an investigation into allegations of kickbacks to McConnell for that aluminum mill, and refuse to release the documentary evidence. President Klobuchar will call for the House to sanction Nunes for leaking classified data and coordinating the Ukraine corruption, and claim that only Democrats are allowed to see the evidence in its raw form because of national security concerns. All the evidence being withheld by Trump and the compliant GOP will come out in the near future. And it will be used to bludgeon the GOP for corruption and crimes of election fraud, money laundering, and perjury. Better for them to let it out now while they can control the spin.
Henry Crawford (Silver Spring, Md)
@Ed the Arithmatic I would agree, except the Republicans believe there will never be another Democratic president. If allowed to escape consequences this time, Trump and the Republicans will most likely declare a national emergency in November, shut down the polls and set up Trump as president for life. Sound unreal? Well how about acquitting a president who publicly defiled his oath of office.
Jared (Grand Rapids, MI)
@Henry Crawford I remember when George W Bush said that he thought he would be the last Republican President. In a way, he is both right & wrong. He's wrong in the fact that Trump is TECHNICALLY a Republican President, but he's right in the fact that this Republican party isn't the Republican party that elected George W Bush. It's become more male-dominated, less diverse, and, under the Trump presidency, more hyperpartisan & partially detached from reality. I think that there are a few sparks of independence left in the new GOP, like Susan Collins, Lisa Murkowski, Justin Amash (who's now an independent), Mitt Romney, Francis Rooney, & Brian Fitzpatrick. I think Lamar Alexander has some level of independence from this new GOP, but he's retiring after his current term, and Rob Portman, John Katko, & Fred Upton need to show a little more independence before I consider them distinct from this new GOP (Rob Portman more so than the other two). Almost everyone else, however, has completely fallen in line.
LHW (Boston)
The evidence against Trump is convincing and damning. But the Republicans will continue to twist the facts and raise minor or completely irrelevant issues. Fox News and other right wing media will back up the Republicans, and Trump will get away with it. What will he do next? Republican enablement exists without any consideration of the future - either with Trump or other presidents.
dc (Earth)
Thanks for the short, concise guide. It's stuff like this that makes my subscription an even better value.
KV (Colorado)
Unfortunately, the House may need to look at the RICO statutes and case law to understand how to present a case to the American people regarding this president's activity. I also still don't understand what authority Giuliani works under, and how a public servant can send his private attorney out into the world to conduct "official" business that belongs exclusively in the hands of U.S. public servants, like the Attorney General. Giuliani it's not employed by the U.S. so why does he even have access to foreign leaders, or have any business in meetings with the State Dept. or the DOJ? He really shouldn't legally have access to any of this information, and it's Giuliani's efforts that are the factual and obvious personal benefit to the president. This whole matter is in its face an abuse of power, by a wannabe mobster - hence, RICO.
Pottree (Joshua Tree)
@KV I don’t agree with Trump’s take, but he appears to believe he can do anything he wants in office, even if it’s wrong, because his supporters are so totally hoodwinked they won’t object. So, he appoints Giuliani as a kind of plenipotentiary who doesn’t need Senate confirmation and, since the claim is Giuliani is the President’s personal lawmaker, anything between the two is covered by the omertà of Attorney-client privilege. It’s a kind of sleazy corporate veil concept.
Rose (Massachusetts)
There is no mention here of the extraordinary panic of several aides within the Whitehouse regarding Trump’s call with Zelensky. So much panic that it resulted in a Whistleblower taking great personal risk, finally going to the IG who also had to go through barriers to make what he deemed a credible complaint public. Bolton told Fiona Hill to report what she had heard of the matter “to the lawyers”. (John Eisenberg knows EVERYTHING.) We have a crime scene with a bloody corpse and first hand witnesses have either chosen to be complicit or been muzzled.
James (Concord)
Trump's defense team asserts that Hunter Biden should be investigated for corruption because he had "no related expertise and was paid large sums for his position on its board while his father was in office." I think Joseph Biden should drop out of the presidential race for his stupidity in allowing his son to sit on the board of Burisma (or at least not raise the ethical problems of doing so); if he becomes the nominee he'll be skewered for this, easing Trump into a second term. However, that being said, what hypocrisy on the part of Trump, his defenders & the Republicans. Whatever Hunter Biden did is being dwarfed by the corruption through profiting off the presidency by DJT, his children and Jared. And his children know no more about the operation of government (other than how to skirt its laws) than did Hunter Biden. Shameful!
Andrew Roberts (St. Louis, MO)
@James I've been surprised that Biden hasn't made the obvious arguments that make criticism of his son's position entirely pointless. First, his son was given the job because Burisma wanted an expert on American politics, not on the gas industry, so the argument that it was an outright gift is wrong. Second, $50,000 a month is chump change for members of corporate boards who usually earn their positions through name recognition rather than performance. On corporate boards across the US, people who made the right friends come to a one hour meeting once a month and take home double that. So the argument that he was paid unusually well is wrong. I know Republicans won't be convinced by it, but none of his defenders will even try. They just hope they can ignore it.
Roger Duronio (Bogota Nj)
What is Trump's plan when he gets cleared by the Republican Senators? How many foreign powers will he solicit to help him win the 2020 election? Will China and Saudi Arabia join Putin/Russia in buying adds, in flooding social media with lies and ads? How many nations will seek the kickbacks and trade deals from Trump and the Senate Republicans? Don't forget that Republican Senators got elected on Trumps Coat-tails, too. They have a vested interest in the destruction of our Democracy, as short term as it will be.
Robert Porter (New York City)
Trump tried to extort a personal political favor from a foreign government by withholding military aid already ordered by Congress. He claims to be innocent but refuses to allow people who directly witnessed his actions testify because he considers a constitutionally guided process a "hoax." Extortion Obstruction of Justice Contempt for the Constitution That's all you should need, unless you're a republican senator manacled to a rotting corpse.
Lewis (McClain Sr.)
@Robert Porter The guided process was and is a political power hoax...
Budley (Mcdonald)
The GOP is proceeding as if somehow they are sure that there will never be another a Democrat in the White House. Perhaps obviously rigged elections are now their only way forward.
Michael (Massachusetts)
@Budley Based upon their now clearly established MO, would anyone really be surprised if Republicans in the near future, having been complicit in allowing interference in elections by foreign Governments, voter suppression, and obstruction of investigations into these actions, then declare that elections are compromised and cancel them, or declare them to be rigged and throw out the results after the fact? Unless the people draw a line, Republicans will continue on this path to permanently holding power in the US. No more truth, fraud elections, elimination of any accountability; when we look at tin pot dictatorships, these are the signs.
Lewis (McClain Sr.)
@Budley Hillary and her ilk are the only ones rigging elections. Ever hear of Donna Brazil’s?..
Gdnrbob (LI, NY)
@Budley The GOP is proceeding as if somehow they are sure that there will never be another a Democrat in the White House. If the Republicans truly believe the President has unlimited powers, they wouldn't be able to mount a defense should a Democratic president and Congress assume office and ram through progressive legislation. But, given their past behaviour, I doubt they will show any consistency in their beliefs.
D Hamilton (15212)
They are not going to impeach Trump - several reasons, not the least of which is fear of social unrest by his supporters, but the biggest is that they don’t want to go to the next election under President Pence. And who would run for the GOP in such a short period of time? Is anyone else even campaigning?
Beignetwriter (Midwest)
@D Hamilton They cannot take away the fact that he has been impeached; they can only decide whether to remove him.