So reading the comments in the article (not the comments in the comment section) the problems of division in the country becomes clear.
The Republican comments tended to show a lack of understanding of the charges or process and a push back that Democrats are simply "out to get the president".
The Democrats comments tended to show an emotionally response that lumped in everything they dislike about Trump beyond the impeachment charges.
Neither group of voters seems to be focusing on facts and both lack the ability to step back and be reasonable. The problem is that they are mirroring the extremes in both political parties.
The American people need to get back to the center and back to Libertarian ideals. A place where we can say - I don't agree with something (gay marriage, legal marijuana, guns, etc.) but I also believe in the freedom that gives Americans the right to choose.
Honestly I wish both Dems and Repubs would be a little more Libertarian and focus on freedoms rather than pushing the ideals of one party or the other on the people.
4
Do Americans really fail to comprehend that Trump did not cause the good economy? Employers hire, not Trump, and the economy was great when Trump entered office. And who was president before Trump?
11
What an epitaph for Democracy if it dies at the hands of the Senate.
6
What I want to know is why, in a nation that imprisons a larger share of its population than any other on the planet, this clown has for decades been stiffing contractors, laundering billions in mob money, using a charity as a tax-free piggy-bank, cheating thousands of "students" at his "university"....the list goes on.
There's documentary evidence for these crimes: the contractors' unpaid bills, the charity's checks for non-charitable expenses (including blackmail payoffs). Why does he get at most a slap on the wrist? If I stole one millionth of what he's stolen I'd be doing hard time--why isn't he?
14
I wish the Democrats had opted for censure. Removal of Trump as President will come after loss of an election. Some would like that to be sooner rather than later.
1
People who do not read, who have no curiosity, who are not interested in finding the truth are, to put it bluntly, ignorant.
Unfortunately, these are Trump supporters and to expect them to change is naive.
Adam Schiff has done a masterful job of highlighting the sheer corruption of this President and that's where the all the focus should be. Forget his 'politics', just list his crimes. There are enough Americans who still believe in truth and honour and want to get rid of this national disgrace called Trump.
9
Taking the long view appears to be very hard for people. Having perspective - on the economy, on the abusive way Trump treats women and people who are not like him, on the long term effects his dismantling of law is going to have, on what the national debt actually is and why it matters - escapes many people. Human beings have incredible difficulty caring about what happens to someone other than themselves - it's a shortcoming that costs us dearly. Economies are built over decades. Environmental rules are created one at a time, slowly. If anything this shows that having the same party in all three branches is a huge mistake.
2
While many democrats believe that the deep divisions in our country began with Trump, that is false. We need to understand that in the same way many democrats despise/vilify Trump, many republicans despised/vilified Obama. Yet the republicans need to understand that there are some key differences in the way democrats think and feel today about Trump and the way republicans thought and felt under Obama. A) Obama carried the popular as well as the electoral college. To carry an election by the electoral college without the popular vote places us squarely in the territory of being ruled by an oligarch, literally a leader put in place by a minority. B) While republicans might have disagreed with Obama and his policies in the extreme, he did not display tendencies of mental instability and psychological disorders. Republicans seem to think democrats hate Trump because he isn't nice or because they disagree with him. This isn't the problem. Most democrats I know literally believe that Donal trump is "not sane." While Reagan's 2nd administration was haunted with rumors of severe dementia, he did not act out in the ways that Donald Trump acts out--tweeting the world with petty rants, even promising to declare war by tweet when faced with impeachment. His meglomania seems to know no bounds. He has no humility or shame for any of his actions. He shrugs and says "so what" when faced with the most vile accusations. What democrats don't understand is HOW Republicans can support THAT.
8
That guy is right about Fiona Hill being a great name for an alt rock band.
Kudos for folks who can remember names. I know exactly what is going on and darned if I can remember names...
A country gets the government it deserves. When the electorate is lazy, doesn't read, believes every statement from FOX newscasters and talk radio hosts, and often doesn't bother to vote, it gets a Trump and a McConnell, Some of the responses indicate a serious lack of education and ignorance. I'm afraid this portends a future of Trumps. What does this thing have to do with peaches?
If the process is a hoax, we can only blame the Founders. If the Articles are a hoax we can only blame President Trump. He appointed, or hired and payed, almost every actor who set him up as the fall guy. If this is the case, President Trump should be removed for willful ignorance. And perhaps Rudy Giuliani should be in custody for plotting to remove a President.
1
Oh, come on! There are over a thousand replies to this lopsided piece. Trump must be removed from office. Period.
6
As a self-professed "impeachment junkie" I admit to having watched more coverage than my family deems necessary. Particularly as I am Canadian.
However, I believe that what happens in the politics of our neighbours to the south can "trickle down" (up?) to our own, and frankly, that concerns me.
If the Constitution of the United States can be so roundly disregarded, if its three "co-equal" branches of government so cavalierly dismissed by the executive, what chance does do other systems of democracy stand? Those would-be democracies the United States purports to stand for and support.
Additionally, one wonders how long the United States can continue to call itself a Superpower and its President the "leader of the Free World," as that leader cosies up to some of the biggest *dictators* in the world. All the while neglecting, rejecting and insulting allies.
I am sad for Americans. I am sad for democracy.
230
In speaking with his supporters, I learned they simply believe whatever he says. Hence, there is no capacity for a serious discussion based on facts. He has conned the naive. The naive who believe like him, they are victims. Neither is true. But here we are. It is essential that he be impeached, more than once I suggest, as his illegal acts are beyond measure.
3
It is not against the law to ask foreigners or foreign governments for help or for information incriminating or disparaging politics, as , any people think. It is just bad politics.
The Federal Election Campaign Act permits foreign nations to works as volunteers for U.S. political campaigns, as long as they dod not accept payments. It prohibits foreign nations and foreign government from making contribution rho political campaigns, but the Federal Election Commission and federal courts have ruled this prohibition does not apply to information.
For example, Australia did not violate campaign laws by telling the FBI that Trump campaign manager George Papadopoulos told an Aussie diplomat that the Russian had incriminating information about Hillary Clinton. The U.S. Justice Department issued a statement saying President Trump did not commit a campaign finance violation when he asked President Zelensky to look into allegations about the Bidens.
@William Case Unfortunately, the justice department which is run by Trump minion Barr will say anything that supports Trump. The independent GAO concluded that Trump did break the law.
6
@William Case That's not what the case for impeachment is about. The Abuse of Power allegation is not from just seeking information, it's about the illegal withholding of aid allotted to the Ukrainians by Congress, so the Campaign Finance laws do not apply here. Unless you're considering that hundreds of millions of dollars were essentially stolen from taxpayers by the President in order to get himself re-elected so that he can stay out of prison for all of the other crimes he committed that he "cannot be indicted for" while in office. Once he's removed, by impeachment or electoral defeat, Mueller has stated the crimes would be grounds for arrest (leave that up to Law Enforcement, just stating facts).
If it was simply the Quid, it may be legal if not simply wrong. Yet the pro Quo part is still very much illegal, even if there's been no precedent or set penalty, and certainly more wrong than lying about sex with an intern.
Precedent suggests this is far worse and impeachment was the correct course of action in a clear, legally sound matter.
5
@William Case Your examples support the need for the impeachment process. Australia helped the entire country by notifying the FBI, which is part of our national intelligence services. Australia did not tell just one candidate in an effort to aid them against another candidate. Their information benefited our entire country. As for the Justice Department statement, it was put out there in support of Trump and went against what the IG said was an urgent and credible complaint. The Justice Department statement, promulgated by Barr, flew in the face of the actual investigation conducted by the IG. Because it was so egregiously incorrect, it helped to precipitate the whistleblower taking the complaint to the next level of responsibility....Congress.
5
I continue to get guidance from my favorite author who I have read and reread over the years, Jane Austen, who by the way I might be distantly related to having a Willard relative marry an Austen back in Horsmonden back in the 1500s. But most of my political information comes from watching PBS and BBC News and reading the NYTimes and the CapTimes from Madison WI. Also I am informed by my relations with relatives and friends. My husband was a local union chairman for the Railroad Engineers. I know of people who like the many workers who were scammed by Trump when he went bankrupt 6 times so he didn't have to pay the workers and services who built his buildings they lost wages etc the the builder went bankrupt.. I do understand why some farmers still support Trump despite great loses here from the Tariff situation because I see much of the farming here is turning to industrial farming with huge farms owned in many cases actually by foreigners rather than family farms. My grandfather was a dairy farmer but also helped start a farm co-operative in Polaski Wi. So basically from where I am coming from and what I know I believe Trump should be in jail.
88
@Constance
How true! What is actually very difficult for me is to make sense of how, how, how... anyone could honestly feel differently after looking at the evidence.
9
@Constance
Jane Austen, huh? I've been told that I'm a few cousins removed from Moses, myself.
And don't worry, as long as Donald Trump doesn't get re-elected, he's going to jail.
4
@Constance If Jane Austen were alive, she'd be watching Rachel Maddow and Lawrence O'Donnell on MSNBC. Give them a try!
5
A two party system is bound to lead to division and unresolvable problems. Certainly Trump should never have been elected but that was due to a very weak candidate running against him. Now that things are so polarized it is hard to tell what his actual removal from office would do to the electorate. I always believed that a house vote of censure would have carried a lot more bi-partisan positive effect than the impeachment. I believe a lot of Republicans would have gone along with that. Pelosi was right in the first place. A partisan impeachment does not bring the country together.
144
@bellicose
Pelosi's hands were tied, in much the same way that a police officer needs to arrest a criminal, even if they know the judge will acquit them.
The impeachment is not partisan. It is detailed in the Constitution, and the evidence presented was irrefutable. That only one party seriously debated the evidence presented is a partisan issue. The impending acquittal, despite the overwhelming evidence, is what is a partisan issue.
124
@bellicose "Certainly Trump should never have been elected but that was due to a very weak candidate running against him."
This survey should demonstrate to you that what is "very weak" is the electorate at large.
93
@bellicose
He never should have been elected, because he did not actually win the popular vote, so...
88
Most Americans I know are supportive of the POTUS because the economy is strong, even though our national debt is higher than ever before and corporations were given tax cuts only to buy back their own stock instead of investing in their workforce. If I were a politician and asked my local Sheriff to investigate a competing political candidate or I would withhold part of this budget to fight crime, I would be abusing the powers of my of the office and would be punished (if I were caught that is).
95
@Mark1021 :
Economic expansion financed by debt is not "growth".
But, don't worry, the debt will fall to the kids, not you.
34
@Mark1021
We should note, buying back "their own stock" DOES drive the price higher, at the risk of tanking the whole stock market when the bubble bursts. As it INEVITABLY WILL.
All the the Trump Tax Dodge did was ballon the National Debt at the great risk of the next massive Great Depression long after Trump is out of office, except by that time, the federal government will already be denuded of competence and we will have had more years of Trump (and perhaps Pence) incompetence and hundreds of far Right Wing judges with lifetime appointments on the Federal bench which will shape our laws for hundreds of years to come.
The Republic has fallen, long live the Empire.
15
The impeachment is hypocrisy and the Democrats are playing this as if it is a game. I think sometimes the Democrats are at war with Trump's Twitter account, not Trump's actual actions. If the latter was true, all previous presidents would have been impeached.
Political correctness is poison, so is identity politics, which is fortunately being discarded more and more by journalists in the West as a bigoted, bad idea, partly supported by racism and sexism from the ones accusing others of so. However, Trump is terribly offensive at times, and while it can be a strength to be rash, a President must also carry some elegance in his actions.
Editor’s note: This comment has been anonymized in accordance with applicable law(s).
13
@John
Feel free to actually prove your point. You state what I consider nonsense and don’t even back it up.
Here is mine on Trump.
https://www.justice.gov/storage/report.pdf
He asked Russia to hack his opponent and did it openly. It is illegal to ask a foreign nation for a favor to assist your campaign.
Trump did this again after falsely exonerated by Barr and blocked on being indicted.
He then committed the same crimes again with Ukraine.
His pattern of abuse is obvious. I believe you are listening to propaganda. If we can’t agree on the basis of these facts we have a problem.
That is why we are where we are. You believe nonsense lies from where I am standing.
So now prove me wrong with references. Know I can get many more references.
54
@John
Identity politics as practiced by all the white males who are arming themselves and whining about being replaced ?
Or would that be political correctness to fall in line for a rash, offensive leader who your party previously repudiated and most members secretly don’t trust?
If we’re going to compare hypocrisy lengths here, which one is bigger?
30
40+ years of defunding education gets us to this.
Not a surprise. It couldl be our downfall.
4
So far, trump has been great for us democrats. Since he took office, democrats have won 40 seats in the house, 9 governorships, 400 state legislative seats, Virginia turned blue with a democrat governor, senate, and house, and we won a Senate seat in deep red Arkansas. Virginia is the first southern state to turn blue. 2018 was a blue wave election and 2020 will be a blue tidal wave election. 19 republican congressmen have quit and said they are not running for re-election including 5 in my state of Texas. Trump is destroying the republican party. McConnell has an approval rating in Kentucky of 37%.
4
If the response is, "The Democrats just want to remove the president because they can't stand the outcome of the 2016 election" ... that's Trump talking, playing the victim. We ARE over it; trying to prevent illegal influence in the 2020 election.
The real reason why this impeachment is happening is because of what our current president did: illegally impose a requirement for a foreign body (a weaker country, currently at war with our enemy) to announce an investigation in order to get the money that had already been approved by the government. (The added worry is that Trump's hold on the money benefited Putin, but that issue has never been raised.)
We are now onto the 2020 election. All people should focus on the next election and choose a president who believes in a completely fair outcome. Concern: Trump won 2016 due to Russian/Putin's help. Trump was trying to illegally influence the 2020 election.
3
It is always disturbing to read how few people have accurate knowledge or are able to understand either the objective facts or the context and implications of the matter at hand. I'm sure many other readers would agree with Winston Churchill's astute observation, that the best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter.
5
Before they so strongly advocated for STEM in secondary schools, they should have made sure history and civics classes were not deleted, judging from some of the responses. We could argue the specifics online for 14 hours a day, 7 days a week, for the next several weeks, and probably not move the needle on the debate-o-meter by very much, if at all. I think the term "betrayal of trust" was used during the Nixon impeachment. That should be the core foundation for impeachment. The Presidency used to be an office with prestige and a global reputation, now it's an office at a level below carnival side show barker. I think it will take years to recover.
3
The bottom line is: it is illegal to ask for help from a foreign government to win a U.S. election. Neither financial nor in-kind help is permissible.
The central question is: did Trump do this?
The case is aggravated by the fact that Trump tried to get his help from Ukraine by withholding military aid from an allied country which is FIGHTING A WAR with Russia.
This makes the charge much more serious in terms of the national security impact. But it doesn't change the essence of the issue.
The other issue is obstruction of justice. Trump has tried to prevent any of the evidence in possession of the executive branch to be made available to the fact-finders in the House or the Senate.
So the second big question here is: should President be able to prevent evidence relevant to his case from being known and considered?
This would completely unacceptable in any criminal or civil trial. Does that apply to an impeachment/removal case? One way to answer that question is to consider the impact if we set a precedent allowing presidents to cover up evidence of wrong-doing.
The implication for the future would be that any president could get away with doing ANYTHING he wanted, cover it up, and never be held to account. So much for checks and balances.
3
Consider this famous quote:
Throughout history, it has been
the inaction of those who could have acted; The indifference of those who should have known better; The
silence of the voice of justice when it mattered most; That has made it possible for evil to triumph.
This is where we find ourselves today. We let this happen.
4
We have a sitting President that, in his own words, said I can Do Anything citing the 2nd amendment. This frees him from any responsibility to any normal rules of governance cited under the Constitution.
His view of the world says, He has all the power, Congress has no power to stop him,no matter what he chooses to do.
If we are going to retain our use constitutional rules of engagement Congress needs to stand up to reset the guardrails of balanced power. Democracy can get messy, but rule of law is the only thing between us and Donald as dictator!
2
The lack of critical thinking evidenced by some of these comments from citizens in this piece is appalling. Just appalling.
FOX News is incredibly effective. It’s almost like if you divert the viewers at just one intersection, the first intersection of thought, the rest seems to take care of itself: ignorance. The fact that these viewers don’t fight back intellectually is disheartening.
5
I did find your interviews quite interesting. What seemed to be prevalent is the consistency of the responses being framed around each personal "view", obviously based on their own life experiences, versus any experience in life of being ON a jury, or how evidence for a trial is prepared and presented.
This seems to go to the bottom line regarding your fine piece here, is were all of the proper questions asked, in seeking intent of the framers of the constitution, and their limited ability to project into the future the type of society that the not so "United" States has become.
I would hope that someone would’ve said look I may not like him, but I feel he should be impeached because he’s guilty of what they say he did. I don’t like anything he’s done in the last three years, but that’s not why I want him impeached and removed. I want him impeached and removed because he’s guilty. He obstructed Congress and Committed High crimes and misdemeanors. Congress may lack evidence as far as records and testimony, but their “thin file” only proves their obstruction charge. Trump won’t let Bolton, Mulvaney, Giuliani, Perry or Pompeo testify. If You’re innocent you don’t prevent someone who can clear you from testifying. That’s common sense. When people say he doesn’t deserve to be removed, I wonder if they understand what he did and the implications of it? The bottom line is that even Alexander Hamilton stated that breach of public trust is a High Crime and Misdemeanor. Even if his base doesn’t want him removed for it, he has a responsibility to serve as President for the entire nation, not just the 63 million who voted for him. He most certainly attempted to undermine the 2020 election, so how did he not breach our trust? He held our money from an ally, for his benefit. I wish people would just look at it for what he did and put our country ahead of partisanship. Trump could’ve walked the straight and narrow but he chose otherwise. What would happen to us if we did the same?
3
Kennedy used the "space race" to unify the country. The scientific community loved the idea, because they would have job security. The politicians knew they could get pork for their districts. The military wanted an advantage over the Soviets. Average Johns and Janes hoped the days of The Jetsons were just around the corner. It was a productive, cooperative time in our history. Trump's Space Force will have the opposite effect, ramping up military responses from Russia, China, Iran and North Korea.
I believe that most liberals still have an optimistic view of our future, although they worry about climate change and endless wars, among other things.
But the "alt-neo-conservatives" seem to be the doomsday crowd, seeing the world falling apart, and hoping for the Rapture. Mitch McConnell is destroying the Senate, obstructing nearly 400 bills the House has passed, doing everything in his power to cover up Trump's corruption and incompetence and inviting foreign interference in our elections. Americans would do well to re-read the second paragraph of the Declaration of Independence, in which the Founders left us sound advice on what are our duties as citizens. If we don't use our votes to remove the partisan hacks of both Partys from Congress and the Executive Branch, we have no one to blame but ourselves. "If it is to be, it starts with me."
5
It’s painful to read comments that say people on the left are only out to get Trump ‘cause they’re mad about losing, or whatever. People who don’t understand civics 101 and couldn’t pass the citizenship test. The hypocrisy is staggering. If a Democrat did this the right would be screaming impeachment in five minutes. Guess what? If a Democrat did this, I would be for conviction because I stand with the Constitution and the Rule of Law. I am sick of both-sides-ism, this false equivalence. It’s not. 30 years of right wing propaganda has addled their brains. They don’t get the same “facts”. Regular people, good people, my neighbors and relatives, incapable of a rational conversation. Read Paul Savoy’s essay today in the Atlantic. Here’s the gist: It’s a contradiction to say the that only judicial remedy for a lawless president is impeachment, and at the same time claim that impeachment is a political process, not a judicial process. This places the president above the law. How many people could understand this argument? How many people on the right could suspend disbelief an accept that I, as a pretty far left of center liberal, have many things in common with them such as fiscal responsibility (balanced budget), control of borders (merit based and end to birthright), etc. and that my real concern is the preservation of our Constitutional Republic? I fear we are lost. The left + the center make 60%. Vote like our Republic depends on it. Because this time it really does.
4
If Trump is impeached for the allegations, then EVERY PRESIDENT could have been impeached for behaviors far worse, more clandestine, and more bordering on treason, regarding contact and relations with foreign governments. If Trump is guilty of political melding, one would have to be blind to all the mistreatment he has had from former Democratic opponents in high places, such as the FBI, DOJ, and CIA. Their behavior was criminal. While Trump is an easy man to hate in many ways, he doesn't deserve the political assassination attempts he has been hit with since taking his oath. He's off the charts from the norm, but look at what he's been able to accomplish, even with a ball & chain around his foot and the Sword of Damocles above his head. While what he did may not have been wise, it certainly does not deserve impeachment.
2
To be swayed by the Republican arguments is to believe the following:
1. The Democrats are trying to undo an election by betting big that 20 Republicans will switch sides, with no defections by vulnerable senators on the Democrat's side.
2. Trump cannot have done anything wrong because Democrats are going after him. Being persecuted means that it is impossible to have done anything wrong.
3. Investigators should only investigate possible crimes if the evidence they haven't unearthed yet proves there was a crime. Investigators must prove that there was a crime committed before they investigate whether there was a crime committed. Similarly, a trial before a jury of peers must only be undertaken when the jury of peers will decide to convict. There is no room for debate, you must be proven guilty before you're proven guilty.
4. You can't obstruct justice if there is no crime. So long as you did nothing wrong, feel free to destroy evidence, intimidate witnesses/jury, and do whatever you have to to avoid conviction. You did nothing wrong, so it doesn't matter.
I'd like to see more appreciation for the nuance of the case from the right. Do I personally think that Trump's actions constitute removal from office? No. But I believe they fall in a gray area that warrants a serious debate. Having an investigation and a trial is justice working as intended. Acquit if you want, but take this seriously at least.
108
@Ethan thank you for this insightful response about assumptions.
5
In broad terms, the electorate know that Trump’s “abuse of power” (as thoroughly investigated by Mueller and now by the House of Representatives) was both legally and morally wrong.
However, when partisan politics prevent his removal from office due to systemic failure in our governing institutions, it’s time for structural change throughout our government.
This can happen only through focused and uncompromising leadership throughout our corridors of power. Much is at stake.
I remain hopeful that our electorate will, step by reluctant step, recognize this inevitability.
1
Political tribalism.
2
Of course, at least one Trump supporter was quoted as saying "He's not a politician" -- the mandatory refrain of the truly clueless. I can name a lot of things he's not: He's not competent. He's not qualified. He's not trustworthy. He's not rational. In fact, just add any worthy trait after the word "not" and you've got an apt description. Let's just hope he's "not" reelected.
5
I think it is sad that so many believe the truth is like some kind of illusion. Until individuals along with media sources are held accountable for their false statements which are only mistakes for whatever reason we will have a hard time taking any information as factual. Fake news shouldn't become acceptable for any reason. It is obvious we weren't ready for a flood of lie's so deep we can't seem to get a short breath of truth. Perhaps we are afraid of the truth? Alternative truths are only lies.
3
Two recent and short conversations I've had where people said, "At least my president doesn't lie," and "I just like all the stuff he stirs up." Being that I was in my retail store and didn't think it was the forum for a more detailed conversation, I thought, "Really?" and felt sad.
3
I don' see where this article served any purpose at all. We have no sense of numbers---how many people were for impeachment or against---just selected quotes. "Numerically balanced." Shame on NYT. Either do a real focus group and report results, give real context for the volume of quotes in one direction or another, or invest a due an honest polling.
This was nothing but a fluff piece that does more to harden the status quo.
1
The Republicans quoted in this piece appear, for the most part, to have a 6th-grade education.
3
For those that doubt the reasons for impeachment, ask one question. Simply put, let witnesses and documents speak. Even children understand the importance of presenting documents.
We submit homework, work documents, copies of bills, and tax documents, . . . think about a world that allows us to submit our opinions in place of documents! The check ain’t in the mail!
3
To anyone who is confused or thinks the evidence amounts to a hill if beans, I beg you to watch Schiff’s opening argument. It’s two-three hours long, but he lays out the case for conviction clearly, with compelling evidence, including self-incriminating remarks by Trump. Watch it and then tell us that Trump did nothing wrong and that he and all future presidents should be allowed to “govern” in this way. Leaving him in office now, whether or not he loses the election in November, will send exactly that message: corruption is now a U.S. president’s privilege.
4
What's really sad is how inaccurate so many of these comments are, how shallow, how many merely echo other inaccurate and shallow soundbites from media pundits who themselves lack integrity.
Listen: The impeachment is not about whether we like Trump or not. It is not about being upset over the 2016 election.
Trump abused the power granted him by the Constitution, and he has obstructed justice. He deliberately withheld funds Congress had allocated to aid Ukraine, our ally, in their resistance to Russian strong-arming. He attempted to use that withheld funding to strong-arm Ukraine's President to investigate his political rival and thereby interfere with the upcoming election.
That's it. And there is already evidence of what he did. It's not fuzzy or confusing. The House acted fairly, in its process and in hearing and heeding what valid witnesses provided.
It is not a hoax at all. The hoax is in calling the charges against Trump and the proceedings in the House a hoax. It is not a sham. What McConnell and the GOP are doing is a sham of legal procedure, an abuse as threatening to established American beliefs and proceedings as anything Trump did. But it is certainly a weakness that so many of the people interviewed for this article have so slim a grasp of what is happening.
4
Hey Russia are you listening? Putin is kicking back and having a good laugh at all of us.
2
Recently, in Iran, people took to the streets when they thought the government there was trying to be deceitful about shooting down a passenger jet.
This was despite the danger to protest against the Iranian government.
In this country, not only aren't we taking to the streets about the lies, Over half of us can't even be bothered to care about the truth.
The truth that Potus has no issue shouting whenever given the opportunity. He wants his leading political rival investigated by foreign governments.
The idea that this disqualifies him from holding the office of President is not partisan, not idealistic, heck it barely even requires the defense of being common sense it is so obvious.
It is time for the Republicans in the Senate and elsewhere to stop the gaslighting and show some courage or at the very least acknowledge the truth.
4
Not surprised, but disappointed, nonetheless. Three quotes from our founders;
"I know no safe depository of the ultimate powers of the society but the people themselves, and if we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them, but to inform their discretion by education. This is the true corrective of abuses of constitutional power." - Thomas Jefferson
"Knowledge will forever govern ignorance, and a people who mean to be their own governors must arm themselves with the power which knowledge gives." - James Madison, the fourth American president
"The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them." - Patrick Henry, American colonial revolutionary.
3
As a career educator I read these comments with disappointment and fear. After months and months of stories about DJT's schemes have been in the news how is it that anyone still doesn't understand what has happened? I fear this is willful ignorance. How have we failed so miserably? Not only lacking in intellectual curiosity, where is the integrity and character in our people?
6
I want to know why those who ignored subpoenas were not jailed.
4
Impeachment is becoming a vote of no confidence in the President. In the future, if the President is Party A and the House is Party B, we will have "impeachments" like this one. And the irony is that the Democrats accuse Donald Trump of breaking important norms.
I'm an Independent and my biggest concern is that a corrupt president from either party will enlist the support of foreign governments to subvert our democratic republic voting process and results.
3
"As a former law enforcement officer, there is no case there. Absolutely no case. The president did not do anything wrong. It’s a shame that so many people hate the president to the point where they will try to make the case where there is none. Bill Marcy, 73, a Republican from Mississippi" Bill, seeking assistance from a foreign government to undermine a political opponent seems like treason to me. Especially since his own Justice Department was not investigating that opponent.
2
@John Locke
"There is no case there"? There is a very strong case. The arguments have been laid out very clearly:
1. Trump withheld funds already allocated by Congress after the State Department certified that Ukraine had addressed its corruption problems
2. At the same time, Trump had Juliani meeting with Ukrainian officials with Parnas' help & with the former Ukrainian prosecutor (Zelensky) to get the Bidens investigated.
3. This was a concerted effort not just by Juliani but also by Ambassador Sondland and others in the administration; Pence and chief of staff Mulvaney are involved
4. State Department Diplomats testified to much of this behavior, including Sondland himself
5. The House provided proof that the removal of Ambassador Voinovich in order to smooth the way for exerting pressure on the Ukrainians to announce an investigation into the Bidens was a calculated Juliani move
6. Hunter Biden's appointment to Burisma's board is a red herring, although I think that the appointment reeks of corruption
7. The administration refused to honor the House of Representatives' subpoenas to provide documents and allow admin witnesses to testify, which is Congress' right under the Constitution
8. The Government Accountability Office informed the OMB that Trump withholding the money was illegal
9. Trump has not denied the facts of the case as presented, but merely insists he did nothing wrong
I suspect you didn't do any reading on your own but just
listen to Fox News.
2
Getting Trump's supporters to understand why his actions are impeachable should be that hard. Simply ask them to close their eyes and imagine the following scenario:
President Hillary Clinton has been in office enacting her liberal agenda for a couple of years. Trump just announced he was running again in 2020. She calls up president Xi and says, "Hiya Xi! You know, I'd sure love to settle on this great big trade deal with you, but first I want you to do us a favor. That Trump is a real bad dude. I'd like you to make a public announcement of an investigation into all the bad things he's done. People are saying it's terrible. I know you can get to the bottom of it. I just need you to make that announcement on TV."
Now ask Trump's supporters how that scenario makes them feel.
3
The evidence was right before me, where Trump obstructed justice on national TV. Trump admitted bribery (extortion, quid pro quo) on national TV.
I saw it. I heard it. The House investigation only fleshed out the details, in consistent, detailed manner. But I do not need that to know I personally witnessed Trump commit crimes.
2
i watched a bunch of can and fox news today...fox news talks about what people are eating/wearing eating?? Very little about the substance of anyone is saying...fox seems directed at teenagers who make fun of each other??
5
You have a base 18% or so in all industrialized countries who will actively support a fascist strongman. You have another, different, 10% who will do whatever their religious leaders tell them to do. Add another 10-12% who actively believe the will financially gain in a scheme that political leaders feed them and, presto, change-o you have Trumpists.
5
Good Lord, people really can't be bothered to read, can they?
Shut off CNN, Fox, and every other shout-cycle "news" outlet that passes off opinion speech for reporting. Pick up a newspaper (maybe even more than one). Process the information presented to you without some loudmouth shouting in your ear. Think!
If the United States of America makes a final descent into a Russian-style oligarchy and dictatorship, it will be because her citizens were too intellectually lazy to demand better.
5
The ignorance of so many of the respondents of the basic facts of the two articles of impeachment is breathtaking. To be unsure of the name of the foreign country involved, at this point, is stunning.
Good work, Fox News and all the am radio bloviators! You have created an entrenched voting class of willful ignorance and prideful stupidity.
Well done as well to Vladimir Putin, who is smiling to himself thinking of what has happened to his most powerful rival.
8
You cannot ask what do the American people think when 50% of them do not. They don't read, they just watch FOX. Like the President they either can't understand, don't bother to find out or don't care. They do not comprehend the workings of a democracy, they do not think the proceedings have anything to do with them or anyone they know. They do not believe Trump is doing anything bad with anything he does because they do not understand the role of the POTUS in the free world. They cannot be convinced of any wrong-doing because they never see or hear it on FOX or SINCLAIR.
Asking the average person "do you think slavery is OK" back in the 1860s might have garnered the same answers. If it didn't impact you personally (you were too poor to "own" slaves) or you didn't much see them on a daily basis, maybe you just didn't care. If you "had" slaves, maybe you thought that you were entitled to them (for all kinds of reasons) and you were going to consider anything else. How would the country survive, after all, if there were no slaves to do the work for free???
Lack of good public education, starvation of the educational institutions over decades, has produced a profoundly uninformed and irresponsible citizenry. Money and greed had lots of room to take over.
Trump will not be removed from office. He might just stay for 4 more years and then make himself POTUS for life. His base will cheer. OMG.
3
The quotes in this article are from NY Times readers. That says a lot more about the Times and its editors, if these are the most representative quotes it can pull from 81 interviews, than it does about the people who they interviewed.
1
I am guessing that those people who think Trump's conduct is no big deal also believed that Hillary should have been given the death penalty.
3
Well, it's not like he lied about receiving personal favors in the Oval Office... I mean, that kind of stuff gets you impeached.
1
Herr Trump has done exactly what he wanted, created a massive schism in the American people and created unwavering cult following and pretty much a sworn allegiance from the elected officials of the Trump Party, much like a certain person in 1930's Europe did.
4
Bring Current Events back to elementary thru high school. Overall,citizens have devolved in their level of knowledge and awareness of the world we live in.
In my view, Trump's base are addicted to being entertained via the internet and reality TV.
5
"The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the everage voter"
Depressing...
4
I’m very thankful for the NYT. Right now, the freedom of the press is what we cling to to preserve our democracy.
You simply can’t read this article and not feel that the NYT is committed to something greater than one of the two parties. You would never see the things you see in this article on Fox news. This is clear and balanced journalism.
3
One response in particular caught my eye. 'They're just making stuff up....' Let me ask, how does one 'make up' testimony of others? How does one 'make up' documentary evidence? It's obvious the 'make up' response is 'made up' by a see know evil, hear no evil trumper - one that manufactures a world in mind to coincide with their beliefs.
3
from the very start my disgust with Trump grows, and my anxiety over the indifference being shown by the public feeds the alarm. Here we witness almost daily the insane actions of a single man who is ignoring everything about America we hold dear. In three short years he has done more damage than any catastrophe ever experienced in the history of democracy and is getting away with it.
8
I particularly liked this one:
“As a former law enforcement officer, there is no case there. Absolutely no case. The president did not do anything wrong. It’s a shame that so many people hate the president to the point where they will try to make the case where there is none.”
— Bill Marcy, 73, a Republican from Mississippi
To which I have this reply:
One can make plenty of general statements about the quality of law enforcement in Mississippi, especially when it comes to blacks suspected of crimes against whites, but Mr Marcy’s statement makes me want to closely examine his record in “law enforcement” to determine his feelings about, and whether he engaged in, little things like planting, withholding and/or destroying evidence, and giving false testimony at trial to help convict likely innocent parties if he was a police officer, or prosecutorial misconduct if he was with a district attorney’s office.
So, are you game for that, Mr Marcy?
6
After reading the thoughts of my fellow Americans I think it is quite clear that the dumbing down of Americans is almost complete.
7
We get the leadership we deserve. Ill-informed voters and Trump cultists are the reason Trump is in office.
They are willing to overlook his many many crimes as long as they get tax cuts, the end of regulations they do not like, and judges they think will overturn Roe v. Wade.
Trump with his obstruction of justice and his disregard for Congress is a threat to our Constitution and to our democratic republic. HE OUGHT TO BE REMOVED FROM OFFICE.
At the very least, We the People of the United States ought to see documents and hear from witnesses. Please call your senators and demand a fair trial that includes documents and witnesses.
Congress: 202-224-3121
2
“Even before the opening statements at the trial had begun, most had already made up their minds on their preferred verdict.”
How terrifying.
2
This is no "farce", impeachment is not irrelevant to American's lives and the DEMs are not attempting a "coup".
The only "coup" that is in the works is coming from Trump and too many GOPers. If Trump is not held directly accountable for his incompetent leadership, attempted extortion/bribery, past tax evasion, past sexual harassment, presently profiting from the Presidency, inciting racism, illegally detaining immigrants and children, and the never ending active and deliberate spreading of lies for personal gain, then he will rule the government outright.
He and his lawyers are saying to Americans that the Presidency is above the law. He is arguing that he can do anything he wants. He has already said this, in his famous quote about shooting someone in the street and maintaining support etc... He literally believes this and he is betting that most of America is so uninformed and mislead that he will win. Trump is fundamentally changing the constitution right in front of "we the people" as our stupidity and apathy has nearly thrown our democracy away.
Mark my words, if Trump wins the next election, his next move will be to change the term limits for the Presidency. He will do it. He has already said as much. He is doing what Putin has done. He is stealing power from "we the people". Those are the facts. Our democracy is in real peril, the real "coup" is being attempted by Trump and the GOPers right in front of cameras and our own eyes.
5
Few of these respondents have been paying attention to the whole process. When I speak of process, I mean the whole three years. Trump is a sick puppy, when he took office, he had no idea what the job was. He has tried to run it like a Mafia boss. What is more interesting than Trump is the fact that the Senators, and right wing members of the House have abrogated their duty, they will disavow their oaths, bot of their office and the oath they took that was administered by Roberts. They are afraid of the man.
6
I am impressed with Adam Schiff's logical presentation and interpretation of the evidence in this specific case of attempted election cheating and obstruction. Yes, there are many other exhausting examples of Trump's bad judgement and cruelty that inspire disdain and despair in the American people. However, the Impeachment hearing is about a specific crime that could lead to removal from office. If the Republicans wanted to avoid Impeachment of their president, they should have either stopped the illegal behavior before it gathered momentum or censured the president and released the aid before he got caught. They did neither. Hence, the Democrats must impeach, even if Republicans have promised to acquit regardless of evidence. No one will ever suspect Republicans have a shred of integrity.
2
I am exasperated with the apathy and ignorance of the public. I have watched hours of the proceedings and it is blatantly obvious this president deserves to be removed from office. Any rational adult having witnessed the full extent of the the testimony would agree. But too many Americans are oblivious or uninterested. And then there are the Republican senators, our only hope for justice, acting petulantly that the trial is an affront to their myopic brotherhood. Finally, there is Fox News, opting not to telecast the Democrats' arguments. I can't stand it.
6
@ron glaser
The return of the Fairness Doctrine would help.
2
Adam Schiff and the other managers laid out the story behind the charges perfectly. The road map was made clear in terms that anyone could understand. And yet the GOP will not be moved and that leaves me stunned and angry. What is wrong with McConnell and his party?? Is their job more important than our system of government? Our country? I'm in my 60s and I've never witnessed anything like this.....A functionally illiterate blowhard has completely taken over a political party and they are content to let it happen and the American people are not even a blip on their radar. I used to say that at least I have a voice...I have my vote. But I'm not even sure of that anymore. If the Russians help Trump cheat again, then I fear we're ruined, and that should terrify everyone.
5
Surveys conducted only online are automatically biased.
1
It's probably time to start stating the obvious: Americans are ill-informed, overly partisan, and lack the intellectual curiosity necessary for self governance.
Trumpism is the beginning of the end of the American experiment. And we really have no one to blame but ourselves.
7
POTUS 45: "Whining Wendy." Can't bear him. Didn't vote 4 him. Believe he ran for POTUS to market his brand to further his goal: Own a broadcast network. However, if he had ever tried to execute the duties of his office, I could respect that. Rather, he has used his office for his personal financial advancement gain. That is corrupt! It is also unconscionable!
His "win-at-all-cost" for 2016 election shows a clear pattern of ethical, and moral unfitness to continue in office.
45's admitted conduct, therefore in the context set forth herein above, rises to the level of "high crimes and misdemeanors." Consequently, I am absolutely in favor of impeachment!
Further, Senators who remain blind to evidence, fail to vote for impeachment & removal from office, are not faithful executors of their own oaths of office. They have not put country first before political party. And, I pray the public will vote them out of office.
However, I do not believe this will occur for a variety of reasons including that the incompetency and bungling 45 substitutes for leadership/governance is what his supporters want from him. Actually, these supporters and the Republican party need him to be exactly as he is. 45 is the "cover" to their own insufficiencies, such as they are. In this area they act like 45: Incapable of honest admissions of errors and assumption of personal responsibility: Immature and cowardly.
Being a "grown up" seems beyond the grasp of this group!
3
We do not turn people free to drive on the freeway without the ability to pass a driver's test....same standard should apply to voters.
3
Two Party Preferred Polls have been suspended in Australia, after the left wing opposition was supposed to win government last year, in a landslide, and in fact lost a few seats. They remain in opposition. Which makes quite a difference. Ten years ago, Australia was a world leader in climate change action, now we are at the bottom of a heap. As in the USA, the right wing are unabashed about jettisoning morals, so people know how they are supposed to answer polling questions without the shame of discovery; but do the opposite in a polling booth.
For example, people are aware their racism would be viewed dimly, and so act as outlined above. The irony is that these tropes are promoted by Rupert Murdoch, who reacted angrily in private to Trump's attempts at Muslim immigration bans in 2017. You are supposed to huff and puff about it in the campaign, but you don't actually cut off a cheap source of skilled labour. Exactly the same story in Australia, except after all the campaign dog whistling, the conservative government has doubled immigration, to prolong the Australian miracle. 30 years without recession - including the GFC, under a Labor government, subsequently criticised for going into deficit to save 200,000 jobs. Now, after 6 years of right wing government, the debt has more than doubled, but they still claim and are afforded the mantle of superior economic managers.
In short, rational argument and debate no longer counts for a hill of beans.
2
@Paul Smallwood
This world will be a better place when Rupert Murdoch finally expires.
3
Reading through these comments I can only think that Democracy is collectively beyond us, too good for us. it is terrifying for the rest of the world that citizens of the most highly militarised nation on earth have such limited knowledge of the issues. We stand on the brink of mass extinction, temperatures are rising, oceans are warming, we are at a continual state of war, our industries have been shipped off shore, gun massacres are becoming more and more common and few seem to even care or worse, not even be aware of it. It would appear much of the American population is at the baseball, watching the Kardashians. We are over armed, under educated and under informed. Scary.
4
It would be more meaningful to hear what citizens think if they understood the basics about our government, the separation of powers, and the president's oath of office.
The rule of law continues to be valued less and less. Soon, democracy will be completely gone. We're getting perilously close to that moment, but things will get much uglier than they are now.
3
It's frightening to read some of the answers. It shows how easily, in this day and age, people can be manipulated by misinformation, if they dont make a conscious effort to educate themselves and instead blindly trust their favourite news orgs to inform them fairly and truthfully.
Trump is using the laziness and/or naivete of his followers to his advantage day after day, bashing every news org that publishes or airs unfavourable pieces, and most people who dont follow the action closely just assume that there has to be some truth to it.
Some of them might not have the time to educate themselves and read different opinions in order to get a better picture, but the result remains the same.
If we havent understood by now how impprtant it is to differentiate freedom of speech and sinister manipulation attempts (and act accordingly), it is time to wake up NOW if we dont want to live in parallel universes in the near future.
2
Do you believe Presidents should be allowed to approach the heads of foreign countries with both government ambassadors and personal representatives (who present themselves as acting on behalf of the president) and ask them to start investigations into their political rivals in exchange for receiving military aid that has already been appropriated by Congress?
This is how I understand the issue, and I think the answer is clearly that we should not allow a president to behave this way.
This is not about one phone call, the call was just part of a much bigger series of actions, including the removal of an ambassador, the use of a personal attorney, quid pro quo, holding up the delivery of foreign aid, using a foreign government to try to influence an election.
It is obvious that if the tables were turned the Republicans would be impeaching a Democratic president over this had they done the same thing.
What I take from reading this article is how the Republicans seem clearly influenced by their news sources.
And I see Democrats, unable to focus on the issues at hand in the impeachment. There is lot to dislike, but this case is specific.
And simply because Democrats loathe this president does not mean that this is a "witch hunt" or a "hoax". It only could have happened if the president did what he did. Maybe it is true that Democrats would try to look for something else if this didn't work, but ultimately, they can only find things that were DONE by the president.
2
Excellent summary that captures the multiple sides of the argument.
Should a President be removed from office for putting pressure on a foreign Government to investigate wrong doing? No (it has happened repeatedly in the past from the Twin Towers to the Lockerbie terrorist plane bomb and I'm sure many less well known examples).
Is the answer still no if the alleged wrong doing was carried out by his political opponent? And there consensus disappears.
It seems to me that politicians in the Houses tried to use their positions of power to initiate investigations of their political opponent, the President. On balance I think that good for transparency. Does the same apply to the President using his position to initiate investigations of Mr Biden. Clearly most Democrats think it not only wrong, but grounds to annul the electorate's decision to make Mr Trump President.
We will all disagree where the line in the sand should be drawn, but those arguing this is black and white ignore the absolute lack of consensus.
2
@Richard Of course the White House can work in an official capacity to pressure foreign governments to investigate things as a precondition to receiving aid AS LONG AS Congress is in the loop and it is carried out by official channels.
This is not at all related to the President using a personal lawyer to pressure a foreign government to simply announce that there would be an investigation of a political opponent in exchange for receiving military aid already approved by Congress.
3
By truncating the trial and refusing to admit evidence, documents and witnesses, Senate Republicans are keeping Americans in the dark about the case against Trump. Unless everything comes to light, McConnel's ploy will likely succeed.
2
I'me not shocked or even surprised at the Republican response to this hearing. I'me also not some genius who out thinks others so it's not that complicated.
Our two party, unlimited term system doesn't work. It has taken us too long to finally understand this.
Our friend, Winston Churchill tried to warn us by saying
"Americans will always do the right thing--after they have tried everything else"
After trying everything else, we might try "One term only' to promote honesty and finally dump all democrats and all republicans as they have a tendency to dislike each other
just because of the party names
A better political party-- The "Perspective Party" it sounds worthy of us all.
PERSPECTIVE --" The capacity to view things in their true relations or relative importance" (Merriam Webster)
Winston is still watching and waiting for us to do the right thing. Simply watching CNN or FOX won't fix our continuing problem.
2
Just watched Lindsey Graham's press conference. I respect the man for his service to the country, but good God--he is a one of a kind hypocrite. Like other Republicans, he complained Mueller's investigation was taking too long, but tonight he happily references Ken Starr's five year investigation of President Clinton as a shining example of investigatory efficiency. Then, Graham says incorrectly that Mueller's final conclusion was that Trump did nothing wrong, but he neglects the fact that Mueller mentioned very clearly that Trump could be prosecuted for obstruction of justice when he leaves office. The senator goes on to complain that the House's investigation of Trump was too short--only 48 days--but he conveniently ignores the fact that several Trump administration officials defied subpoenas, stonewalling the investigation and significantly shortening its duration by deciding to not participate. Finally, Graham complains that the president was not allowed to call witnesses during the intel' committee's impeachment inquiry, but he votes against having witnesses in the Senate trial. None of his hypocrisy is surprising to me though. After all, Senator Graham is the guy who believes Trump's unpresidential behavior is inexplicably immune from Congressional oversight. I'm hoping that along with Trump, Graham will be voted out of office in November too.
3
No one's asked me, no one will. I will vote, of course, as a Green, because Climate Change presents a far more serious concern than the current circus in the Senate. As Rosa Luxemburg described so many years ago, "... as a mighty battle between frogs and mice". To that extend, I blame the Democratic Party machine for the election of Donald Trump, as I did in 1968 for the defeat of H. Humphrey. Republicans are between a rock and a hard place, having to sell what's left of their dignity - never mind honor - in support of one of the most disgraceful figures in American politics. Not that we've really had that many really good presidents.
2
@Don Polly I blame ANYONE who did not want Trump and chose to vote for a third party or not vote at all with his election. The vote tallies prove this was the case. A vote for a third party candidate is a vote for Trump.
1
When I was in grade school I can clearly recall standing respectfully by my desk, putting my hand on my heart and reciting the pledge of allegiance "to the flag of the United States of America."
LIttle did I know that decades from this time of my childhood that there is little allegiance and a very non-united states of America.
Mr. Trump has been and remains a part of the problem. I am not sure what will happen after this impeachment trial ends, as there seems no good ending no matter what.
What is to be done? So much has been accomplished by talented Americans working in science, technology, medicine, --now it's time to heal the ailing spirits of so many, that spirit that seems to act out in anger and disgust most of the time these days.
2
@ChristineZC
I don’t think there’s a cure in sight.....
1
We're in America's twilight, in large measure because so many of us are content to remain ignorant of how our government works and current events. We can't be bothered with such matters.
1
@Gary Kinslow
With all the streaming shows to keep up on and great deals to be had at Walmart, and football & NASCAR, who has time??
2
I had hopes Hillary Clinton would win the election in 2016. Maybe even confident.
Then my husband and I and our little dog took a little trip out West in early fall that year. I sat with our dog on a bench at a gas station while my husband was in the little convenience store. I won’t name the state, but will say way more conservative than what I was used to, and red neck it might be called. I listened to the local conversations coming and going as I waited on that bench. It was a long wait that day as he ordered some food, too, and it took forever it seemed.
We got in our vehicle after waiting and the first thing I said to my husband was that for the first time I thought Hillary Clinton was about to lose the election. Certainly if enough people were on the same track as the gas station customers, and they voted, the Clinton campaign was doomed.
And for once I am so sorry to say, I was right. She lost and I can’t help but think how dense I was to not realize the power of those voters. In my mind they just didn’t “get it” and in their minds I just didn’t get how Donald Trump was going to make their dreams come true....
Not much has changed since then, has it?
2
@MIMA
When I was in the act of voting for Hillary, a little boy accompanying his father in the next carrel said “Clinton doesn’t stand a chance!” His dad smugly agreed.
I smugly thought “What a delusional idiot.”
The joke was on me. On all of us. The trajectory of our lives & this planet will never recover.
2
Trump and McConnell's and the rest of the GOP's Fox 'News' obfuscations are working on a large portion of America.
Some 40% are experiencing so much cognitive dissonance they do not know what they think they know.
Even with a Blue Tsunami in November, I do not think this country can come back together.
3
If democracy relies on an informed citizenry, ours is in some jeopardy. The facts of the case have been laid out clearly and consistently, the evidence is significant, and would be even more substantial were it not for the president's obstruction. Saying that you are confused or unaware suggest that you really haven't been paying attention or that you don't want to pay attention. There appears to be a substantial portion of our citizenry who are not up for the duties of citizenship. People make uniformed decisions every two years in the voting booth (or don't vote at all), then look the other way. This is in part why we are at this constitutional crisis brought on by an ill disposed, ill equipped, and fundamentally incompetent president.
2
Somehow many of this small survey of respondents' views does not surprise me. It's clear that a significant number of these people don't care about the threat to our democracy that Trump's actions demonstrate. It's also obvious that the source of "news" about the impeachment for a number of those surveyed comes from Fox News.
Out of curiosity, I watched several hours of the Fox broadcast of the hearings over the past two days and was horrified. The major difference between Fox and the other three major sources (CNN, MSNBC, and PBS) was that Fox allowed their broadcast to be interrupted by simultaneous split-screen commentary WHILE the Managers were speaking (unsurprisingly much more frequently during the House presentation). The other three channels just kept the broadcast from the Senate floor going, and no commentary occurred until breaks were taken for lunch/dinner or other purposes. That alone speaks volumes about how Fox is propagandizing this trial.
Anyone who tunes into Fox will not be given an opportunity to think for themselves about the essential issues involved in the two Articles of Impeachment. As such, it makes an enormous difference in the level of understanding (and/or confusion) on the part of those surveyed for this article, and reflects the choice of news sources that people make in this critically important point in history.
These choices may portend a truly dire outcome for our democratic principles in the long term. Heaven help us!
2
We are in this mess because of the Electoral College. America can no longer afford a flawed system in which one candidate receives 2.7 million votes more than the other candidate, but the other candidate "wins" and is elected. It is time for the "will of the people" to become law.
Those in power now reflect their fears through abject desperation. They felt the need to solicit foreign assistance by any means necessary because they can count. The right wing fully realizes they are in a permanent minority status that can only be mitigated by dividing the nation. What we should learn from Trump's strategy is that a rabidly committed 30% of the electorate will control the levers of power until the remaining 70% decide enough is enough.
But even then the Electoral College could subvert the will of the people again. In 2016 there were approximately 128 million votes cast. Trump is president because 77,000 votes in four states (Wisc, OH, PA, MI) carried the day according to the EC. We are in this impeachment crisis because of the Electoral College. Until we eliminate this source of national division, it can, and will, happen again.
9
I put off reading this until I could take the anxiety spike that comes from hearing republicans say things like "They don't like him because he's a not a politician" and "there isn't any evidence."
Glad I waited, but more glad that it's over now.
3
Just one question for those who oppose impeachment and removal: if Trump has done nothing wrong, why has he blocked witnesses from testifying at every stage in this process?
Is this the way an innocent person acts? If he has nothing to hide, he would only benefit from witness testimony.
This isn't rocket science, just common sense.
6
It's very upsetting to hear people parrot Fox News talking points that Democrats are impeaching Trump because they just don't like him and they want to redo the 2016 election.
We really need to re-institute the equal time media law.
It is the only way to prevent such "state-sponsored" lying propaganda channels from proliferating.
5
@G
Reagan did away with the Fairness Doctrine
Which has allowed Faux News to flourish.
It is essential for the survival of the USA to get a new stronger version of the Fairness Doctrine at the Federal level.
1
It is utterly amazing how people can have strong opinions about something they no nothing about. It seems to me the Trump supporters were less aware of the facts than the ones who think he should be removed. Hopefully Schiff has enlightened them by now.
4
@Philip Greider Fox is not telecasting Schiff. They show him without audio in a tiny corner of the screen while pundits deliver egregiously false character assassination of him. If only Fox would allow its viewers to hear the arguments of the Democrats, there might be a scintilla of hope for enlightenment.
1
@ron glaser
Or if Fox-watching citizens had the decency and integrity to take responsibility for informing themselves, and turn to a channel that isn’t obfuscating the evidence.
2
The seeming lack of awareness or concern about Trump’s behavior displayed by so many is hard to understand. If his actions are not impeachable than what would be?
5
Flatly, I am shocked at how little people know and understand about the law that was broken, why what was done is wrong, and how our government operates.
Many of the answers sound like things I would have expected to hear in a sixth grade civics class. If such a thing even exists anymore.
The ultimate control of a country rests upon the quality of education provided to all of its citizens, the quality of its citizens' ethics, and their empathy for their fellow human being.
411
@ms More shocking is your belief a law was broken. Which law exactly? There is no law that defines actions of abuse of power and makes it illegal to take those actions. And obstruction of Congress? Not even the House Democrats thought they could win that in the courtroom. Maybe you need to go back to class.
7
@ms That's why we are where we are, and why we have the president we have. In November, there can't be any disaffected Dem or independent voter. All votes are needed.America is in danger.
29
@ms Well said. The ultimate measure of a country also rests on the quality of health care afforded to the least of its citizens.
20
Adam Schiff presented a seminar on the reasons for impeaching this president that was greater than any lecture that I have ever intended. Anyone who complains that the reasons of impeachment are too complicated and regardless of their educational back ground will be more than competent to understand the principles at stake if they listen to even the last forty minutes of Representative Schiff's masterful presentation.
9
Do the reports of a good economy include the billions of dollars in damages lost to natural disasters? In 2018, we lost $160 billion and in 2017, $307 billion to storms, fires, floods, etc., many of which were of unprecedented intensity due in part to climate change. Trump's removal of environmental protections is going to make such natural disasters more and more costly. Are such costs factored into these glowing economic reports?
3
These people are almost as scary as the people the Jimmy Kimmel team surveyed yesterday and asked them if they "voted today in the impeachment trial," and how did they vote!!!! Several actually said they went to the polls to vote! It was scary funny as they described why they voted to impeach or not impeach!
OMG it is so scary. These people are so, so scary.
5
And here we have the latest evidence of what happens to critical thinking when we are glued to the television, and/or social media. Reputable sources of fact aren't even being consumed by many.
6
If it isn't bi-partisan, it isn't impeachment - it's just party warfare.
The Republicans got exactly what they voted for, which is why they are supporting Trump so strongly.
What we experienced in 2016, wasn't a Putin plot, it was the imperfect system we call "Democracy" at work. Given time, the "heavy keel" of our Democratic system, will right things - unless we blow ourselves up in partisan warfare.
History will record both the election of Trump, and the current impeachment attempt, as tremendous blunders.
Let's just hope, that somehow, the tatters of the Democratic Party, can be stitched together in time, to defeat Trump on November 3rd.
2
The Republicans hounded Bill Clinton into a sham impeachment. It was embarrassing -- and I'm not talking about the blue dress. The Republican party was and is is the embarrassment. I'm talking about their oh-so-pious horror that the President would engage in a sex act in the oval office. Who cares ?
The current impeachment doesn't involve sex. It involves the national security of the United States of America, and our position in the world. From Mitch McConnell on down, they don't see the difference. They just don't get it.
What they have foisted on us is a "president" who knows NOTHING and obviously isn't capable of learning anything. He is a pathological liar, who is the laughing stock of the world and who doesn't seem to be capable of understanding that we are a country with a constitution and laws that derive from that document. He is a psychiatric basket case. A loose canon. A catastrophe waiting to happen. Every minute that donald is allowed to remain in office is a threat to our republic and to our very lives.
5
I read the comments. We are simply doomed
5
I, for one, don’t need -- in fact, cannot stand -- to read more snippets of idiocy (excuse me) from the American people. Who are these people? What is the explanation? I am afraid that this article did nothing other than drive me closer to believing that democracy can’t work.
4
He's a liar and when he gets caught lying, he lies even more. And apparently some people want the Presidency to be even more powerful than it is now, and will go along with the lies to get it. I am the opposite. I want the Presidency to be less powerful and have for decades through both D and R presidents.
1
Yes, impeach the President. He is so unfit to be president, in so many ways. He lies constantly and denies everything; he is a master con artist. Ask the Sunday Schools around America whether Trump should be president. Would you allow your children to behave as Trump does?
3
A question for the authors: What percentage of respondents seemed to understand the facts and the issues? You give us samples of comments, but try to quantify what you found please.
8
The folks who can’t name Ukraine as the country in question should have their passports taken away. Oh wait, never mind - those are exactly the people who don’t have passports in the first place.
3
This trial is a coup perpetrated by Mitch McConnell and the rest of the Republicans. They are seizing power they do not rightfully possess by not following the Constitution in refusing to admit evidence and witnesses. The republicans are forcing a partisan, predetermined outcome for the trial.
This is a terrible, horrible time for our country.
1
The comprehensive ignorance of so many of my fellow Americans is absolutely staggering. It may well lead to the end of democracy and/or make earth uninhabitable. Even the Times editorial board is incoherent, recommending support for TWO blue candidates with major policy differences, and showing some of their deliberations in a TV show reminiscent of Top Chef or Inside the NBA (which I love) or Survivor. I believe we are doomed as a country and perhaps as a species.
3
If you don't do this for me, I'll do this to you. That's extortion. That's what Trump did. To a US ally. And he did it for personal gain. Tell how that's NOT an abuse of power.
6
I have had trouble caring about the impeachment hearings because I am already absolutely convinced that our president a corrupt, incompetent, cruel human being who should never have been let anywhere near the presidential ballot by a major party. He’s lied about having a charitable organization, fleeced desperate college students, stiffed construction contractors, “accused” a former president of being Muslim, courted awful despots, insulted democratic leaders around the world... I am trying to marshall myself to follow the impeachment and hope the Senate impeaches him but I do not require this process to tell me what I already know. Our president is unfit to serve and does not deserve power over anybody’s lives. I hope our country can come together and move forward with some higher standards for ourselves and each other.
2
The articles of impeachment are a gift to the Republican party: they can impeach Trump, move on to Pence, and save the Republican party from imploding.
1
@Cynthia
True, but Pence has been implicated too.
1
On another survey 50% of Americans did not know that 6MM Jews had been murdered in the holocaust. So let’s keep these responses in perspective. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jan/22/holocaust-survey-americans-pew-research-center
2
NYT, please repeat this survey every week for the duration.
1
Imagine Bill Clinton was impeached for lying. LYING! Trump is 12,000 + lies and counting.
2
@gideon belete One itty bitty minor point: Bill Clinton did so under oath, to a Federal grand jury - that's a felony.
1
"He’s just made so much news that I just have to live my life. I can’t even pay attention to it anymore. "
I would say that's the general idea.
And it's working.
Your survey of 81 voters documents how uninformed many americans are. Many have simply have failed to educate themselves, to keep up with the relevant issues. And yet, they feel they are 'entitled' to state their views.
In school, understudied students get low marks, may be failed (though I understand, that is going out of fashion).
In political life, lack of knowledge seems not to matter. We all have the right to vote, no?
Hence, the importance of education, critical thinking -- something some states within the Union are vehemently opposed to.
Let the people believe what they are told by Fox?
Excuse me; this is not China ... yet.
3
One thing is certain and irrefutable - the country is more divided than ever in it's history. Trump has fostered this division for his own political gain. Is the temporary good economy really good enough for supporters? Is the ballooning deficit and debt our kids and grandkids will inherit no longer of concern? Checks and balances are officially deceased. The President owns the Senate, Department of Justice, the Fed, and the State Department - what a terrible precedent for the future. Are people really ok with this because they have a few more bucks in their pockets?
3
@Larry
The Vietnam era was more divided, and the civil war era was obviously much more divided.
1
@Larry
You nailed it with your first sentance Larry. We need to be looking at what brings us together, rather than tearing us apart.
It’s not surprising that most Americans have an incomplete or inaccurate understanding of the case against Trump. To many, following the news, especially political news, is like going to the dentist or doing taxes. Overworked, over stressed, overstretched, they want to be entertained in their free time, they want someone to take the news and prepare it for them for them like a Hello Fresh meal. YouTube, Facebook, Twitter all make politics easy and fun, and don’t force you out of your pre-existing belief system. In many of the interviews, there were repeated talking points, especially on the Republican side; ‘Democrats simply hate Trump, there is no crime, the stealing of the lost election, just out to get the outsider’. Few had a clear understanding of the charges, the evidence or what constitutes “high crimes or misdemeanors”. I used to teach government and I am proud to say none of these people are my former students.
5
It is colossally disappointing that most of the folks cannot recite the basic facts of the case --- Mr. Trump in his capacity as president attempted to extort an ally through withholding military aid during a hot war and preventing a White House meeting (signalling strength to appointments) to create dirt on a political appointment.
It is astounding that some folks said that there was nothing wrong with this or that this is the sort of thing that happens all of the time on both sides.
I thought that when this process started that people would tune in. That they would learn that every high level appointee has refused to testify and that the administration has withheld all documents to Congress, including personal notes and emails of those who did testify.
Rather, I am dismayed.
The only vote that will matter in the end is not the ones that the Senate casts - they are bought already - rather the votes of the public in the half dozen battle ground states. I'd like to see a sampling of those folks specifically. Trump is a hard guy to like. That may be enough in November.
3
This article framed the responses as trumpers claiming liberal vindictiveness vs. anti-trumpers wanting to throw the book at him.
As a Democrat who has listened to the case, I can say the abuse of power and obstruction of documents is enough to know that a democracy can't survive this president or anyone of either party like him. We need to call him to account as any one of us would be.
2
So sad how many of your respondents are clueless and yet confident of their opinions. Most know only a fraction of the facts. On Jeopardy within the last week or so, a photo of Adam Schiff was presented as one of the answers. None of the three contestants got it. This country is hopeless.
5
Watching the impeachment trial start yesterday, I kept wondering to myself - is this how democracy unravels? are we seeing the end of this U.S. democracy?
3
All my reviews that fit:
"The evidence doesn’t amount to a hill of black-eyed peas."
Wow, it takes some industrial-strength blinders to say this.
"Absolutely no case. The president did not do anything wrong."
Strong-arming a foreign leader to help, not even your own
country, but your own re-election bid, is not wrong?
"I don’t lean any direction. It’s too easy to fall over when
leaning. I prefer standing upright."
In other words, "thinking for myself is too hard, so I would
rather substitute a pseudo-clever witticism?"
"There was no quid pro quo."
How can withholding vital aid to force a foreign leader to interfere on your side in the US election not be quid pro quo?
"I don’t think what he did was improper. Quid pro quo tactics
are normal presidential duties."
Agreed, if it's for the benefit of the country. If it's for
the benefit of himself personally (i.e., his re-election),
then no.
"It’s hatred. They don’t like Donald Trump."
So, just because people hate him there's no way he could have broken the law?
"There is no evidence that matters. All that matters is how
much Trump is working to help our country."
Wake up. Trump is working to help Trump, and maybe some of
the 1%. No one else.
"It’s a farce. From what I’ve seen, I don’t see where he’s
done anything wrong."
You haven't been paying attention, then. Turn off Fox
and think for yourself.
5
@Wspd Excellent compilation of typical ignorant answers and rebuttal. Personally I think our democracy is in mortal danger. This due to the power mad Republican ideological cult. Facts don't matter. Only holding on to power so they can impose their bigoted opinions on the rest of the populace.
1
One of the most striking things about these comments is how many of them talk about how divided we've become and how can we bring Americans together again? "Make America United Again" would be the winning phrase for the next President
History has shown us that the only time things really change in our government is when the people decide a change is needed and we do something about it. Turn off the divisive media and really start talking to each other and working together. Start by putting the Impeachment on ignore and let's worry about healthcare, the homeless, the opioid crisis, improving education and encouraging growth and opportunity again.
3
@Kathy M
YES!!
The Senate and the Supreme Court (the trial is presided by the chief justice) are doing an abysmal job of conducting a trial. They forgot the fundamental role played by evidence. If they manage to conclude the trial without going through all the available evidence, don't expect the citizens of the country to have respect for courts and the law. We cannot have one set of rules for a powerful politician and another set of rules for the proles.
4
It’s surprisingly evident that the people who are voicing support for trump’s innocence are largely the under informed and less familiar with the Constitution and federal laws in agencies like the FEC.
5
It's interesting to hear some arguments made by Republicans that are the opposite argument made by the same folks during Clinton's impeachment. Situational ethics--making your position fit your desire at any given time. The Constitution is structured to avoid situational ethics when elected officials truly execute their oaths of office. McConnell should be excluded from any involvement for his comments pledging his loyalty to 45, before the trial even began and charged with perjury, having signed the oath of impartiality. His behavior is an example of high crimes and misdemeanors.
4
@Susanne holds the same for Dems too. supported a criminal in 1990s but preach ethics to others now.
1
@Sri Unfortunately, politicians are always going to be politicians. Repbulicans, however, especially McConnell, are egregious with the blind allegiance. The White House has ignored the Constitutional mandate of the three branches of government. Trying to dismiss these charges without a robust discussion of all the facts, hiding behind Executive Privilege et. al., is a slap in the face to Democracy. And Trump's consistent lies, misstatements and fantastical, hateful and bullying tweets (really, he tweets, creating Official Documents) do nothing to indicate that Trump has any notion that he is doing anything wrong. So, your "but they did it first" does not justify the actions of the Senate. Sorry.
It's remarkable the number of Americans who don't give two figs about fair elections. If Trump is acquitted, there will NEVER be another fair election for president again, because a president has enormous power through the office to bribe, coerce, and cajole others into doing their bidding.
Our very democracy is at sake.
3
Tonight I was watching the impeachment hearings on CNN.
I turned to Fox news to see what they were doing. They were NOT showing the hearings. They had many long commercials and then their pro-Trump pundits speaking negatively about the Democrats (like Tucker!) . In a small square at the top of the screen they showed the hearings, but they were SILENT. I kept tabs on this for about 2 hours.
If this is what was happening yesterday and today, it means that Fox viewers are not seeing the hearings.
Will they turn to CNN or MSNBC? I don't think so.
This is one of the big reasons we have such a split in the country. Fox News.
4
@EW In his writings, Thomas Jefferson emphasized the importance of having an intelligent and educated electorate. Without it, a democratic republic cannot survive. He knew this when the country was being founded in the late 1700's. The Republicans still don't know it. Or maybe they just don't care.
I agree with you about FOX "news". The sewage they spew is going to take this country down. But then, Rupert Murdoch is an Australian who only took up American citizenship so the FCC would allow him to broadcast misinformation to our less intellectually endowed countrymen. FOX should lose its broadcasting license.
The bigger question is about the rule of law - does it matter anymore? At this point, there is no objective standard of right or wrong. At some point, laws and morality were assumed to have some correlating relationship, they seemed closely related and moved in the same direction, more or less. On top of that, most religions held a relationship between faith and morality. Ethics was a common ground shared with these pillars.
Nowadays, morality, faith, ethics, legality are all shot. Patriotism is a joke for sale. I just cannot for the life of me believe, how thin our understanding of law, national interest, moral values and ethics is.
Now, I wish everyone could personalize his behavior like "if I had a boss like that", or "if I did something like that". This is not just a case of making someone else do your homework.
Words fail. I feel like a gaping hole has swallowed us and we will never find our way back.
Why oh why oh why are you only interviewing “voters.” You so do not get it. And this is why you were so off in your predictions last election. Where is the inclusion in this “research”?
1
Clinton was impeached for lying about a sexual encounter, but it's OK for Trump to commit crimes every day of his presidency?
5
Near the headline was this quote from one of the interviewees: "I feel like I’m being lied to on both sides at all times."
THIS is Trump's biggest success. He's worn down the public so much with his lies (with the GOP's support) that people just assume both sides lie that that. No matter what Dems do, they're lumped in the same basket with the deplorables.
3
In my opinion Trump should never been sworn in! Paul Ryan could have filled in until the country knew what the "heck" was going on with the Leon Podesta's analytics.Russia pulled a fast one. This impeachment is the final stress test on a once great democracy. Republicans who hear no evil, see no evidence ,and allow no witness are contributing to the demise of the Nation. Divine intervention is required. Senators that allow this grave mistake to continue are essentially driving the get away car for Putin.If they had any common sense ,Republicans would shake this monkey off their back's.
This is not surprising. Survey a few hundred or a few thousand Americans and ask them to name three cabinet officers.
Why are the inhabitants of the world's richest and most powerful nation so willfully ignorant?
4
@DMC I suggest that asking about cabinet officers in the Dumpf Administration might be like asking people what the flavors of the month are at Baskin-Robbins. The inability to answer is not an indication of ignorance.
This.
This is our problem.
We aren't worthy of this fine democracy that our founding fathers crafted for us because we can't be burdened to care enough about what is going on or to learn about issues that we face.
We deserve this mess.
1
this whole partisan filled debate is almost immaterial when if you vote to align with this republican agenda you are voting to self fund for serious illness(ie have a net worth > $ 50M ) . For 50+ years now the republican agenda is to promote bankruptcy (for escalating medical bills) and non treatment for serious conditions and lack of access to new insurance policies (pre-existing condition) . If that is how 60M+ voters think then unfortunately all this other stuff is a small distraction from a disintegration of rational thought filled people.
3
The law is crystal clear: simply ASKING for foreign support in an election is illegal. He didn't even have to withhold or threaten to withhold the aid (which he did anyway) to have committed a crime.
The fact that 53 senators and their constituents are so willfully blind to this simple fact shows that we are through the looking glass here. I frankly don't see how the voting public finds its way back.
8
@ A President can abuse his power by having a traffic ticket fixed, or he can abuse his power by using an alleged attack on a U.S. Navy destroyer by two North Vietnamese torpedo boats in the Gulf of Tonkin, an alleged attack that never happened by ships that were not present that night, to secure from Congress a free hand in the Vietnam War. Using that free hand from Congress, Lyndon Johnson sent a half million American troops to Vietnam, and over 58,000 of them returned home in body bags.
Trump and Clinton both abused the power of their office and committed illegal acts. But in both cases no member of the President’s party voted for the Articles of Impeachment. The impeachment was strictly partisan.
In both cases the Senate fulfilled its job as the Court trying the President on the charges presented and in both cases the Presidential abuse of power was found to be closer to fixing a traffic ticket than having the blood of 58,000 Americans and many thousands of North Vietnamese civilians on their hands.
The Senate, like any court, first had to decide if the abuse of power was serious enough to make a case for unseating a President. In both cases the Senate was acting within its power as the Court trying the case and its decisions that the alleged abuses of power were insufficient to justify unseating the President were sound and without an appeal.
1
Trump may be too tight to use his own money to buy those republican senators. Is he giving promissory notes of some kind or what is he using to dope them up?
3
@hiker Good question.
@hiker
How about? RNC/Trump backing their Republican challengers in their primaries and Super PAC's funding attack ads against them. Plus the immediate problem that their constituency are "All In" with the Trump cult. In a word, selfish. Their selfish ambition drives their cowardice.
1
How many of your "American Voters" polled get their information from Fox News?
Does anyone realize from 5pm PST every Fox News show pots the audio down and shrinks the video when House Managers present their case so they can have their talking heads (liars) spew on-air.
Yesterday when the defense council were before the Senate, THEY PLAYED FULL AUDIO AND VIDEO.
No we hear that Senators were often not in the room during the House Managers presentations.
This is a farce perpetrated on the public by the GOP and The White House.
It is disgraceful.
8
Trump's actions in the Ukraine affair left Ms. Pelosi no choice but to send a resounding voice proclaiming Trump's dastardly actions - he violated his oath of office, sullied the Constitution by using federal funds for personal gain, and for icing on the cake, he has obstructed a congressional investigation by dictating that subpoenaed documents and witnesses will not be forthcoming. Moreover he has repeatedly violated the emoluments clause. Americans should heed warning that if he remains in office his actions will become even more reckless, brazen and autocratic, despotic as he and Barr seek to cripple the law of the land by systematically attacking the foundation of our democracy, the Constitution. No secret that Barr unabashedly denigrates the tenets and principles of this document and would be only to glad to enhance and expand the powers of the Executive Office, and if Trump retains the presidency, then Barr's mission will unleash a more deranged, omnipotent and version of Trump as he believes himself to be invincible and above the law of the land.
8
It would be a lot more interesting to know how the opinions from this group were formed. The constant lies of Trump and his defenders have found a fertile home in the minds of many Americans.
Sad.
8
It's interesting that the people who think it's all a witch hunt can't explain what it's all about. Yet the people who think he should be impeached list all sorts of other awful things Trump has done thereby proving to the people who support him that the left is just out to get him.
This is what it has come to. It seems nobody is sophisticated enough to just listen to the facts of the case at hand and make up their own minds.
It's really all pretty simple. How did it get this way?
6
What ranks highest on the endangered species list? The truth. The fact that so many people who are equipped with political and/or media megaphones take such liberties with the truth is the biggest threat to the undeniable foundation of a democracy - an educated, thoughtful electorate.
It's on those grounds that I favor the removal of every elected official who seeks an advantage through the propagation of lies. These are not just "differences of opinion". That's a lie.
The claims that large numbers of immigrants are committing crimes is a provable lie. The claims that the US has been winning a 19-year war in Afghanistan is a provable lie. The claims that the climate change threatening the lives and livelihoods of millions is not really happening is a provable lie. The claims that withholding funds authorized by Congress for the military defense of the Ukraine based on the effort to extract personal political favors on behalf of Donald Trump is not an impeachable abuse of power by a sitting president is a provable lie. The claim that all those who endorse the above falsehoods are "patriots" acting on behalf of the American people is a provable lie.
It is time for the American people to free themselves from the fog of political fantasies promoted by self-serving (and dangerous) opportunists and base their actions and the actions of this country on the truth. Trump and Trump's cowardly enablers must be stopped before they do any more harm. And that's an undeniable fact.
8
What is the law or laws then did he break the law or laws.
If there is definable laws and he broke those laws what are the stated penalty's.
I find it very difficult to clearly understand what the rules are. I'm of the opinion our keepers like it that way.
Congress seems to be a den of miscreants that are bound to the idea of self preservation and reelection without a bit of concern of accomplishing the peoples business. One lead person walks the halls lackeys in tow,always the same faces.
What have we done to ourselves?
1
@B Mc I can't believe that at this point you seem to be asking what law Trump broke. Simply read a number of the posts in this very comment section. For example, read - about 8 posts above yours - that of Dan from Incheon, Korea. He put it concisely: "simply ASKING for foreign support in an election is illegal."
@B Mc
The General Accounting Office recently issued a finding that 45’s withholding of aid from Ukraine was a violation of the Separation of Powers in the Constitution, and thus a violation of the “law” as an abuse of Executive Branch power.
Not every violation of the law is in the US Code (or state Penal Codes).
@Julie M if this is so clear, how then are we stuck with this all being lost in translation. Not to be too naive here, but are we making this upas we go or are we electing representatives that aren’t capable of applying a clear violation. This should be done in a court not in Congress, to my point, are not getting anything done other than re-election.
in 1789, a good number of French people rose to the gates of le Château de Versailles, started a revolution and the rest is history.... How about the good American people rising to the gates of 1600 Pennsylvania avenue and let history takes its course since it is taking Congress and the Senate so long to get us rid of this corrupt, inept and guilty of high crimes and misdemeanors president. It is time for America to make a choice between becoming an autocratic banana republic or remaining a democracy. What a choice!
5
@SDW agree! Our silence enables this strange twist to our core ideals shaping our future. Please, someone, organize a public event demanding the full truth, a fair and open trial, and public access to the activities and testimony of federal employees in the Executive Branch, including White House staff up to Cabinet Secretaries. I feel my country being eviscerated. This is agony.
You must have had to look far and wide to find 81 American that are aware that there is an impeachment trial underway.
3
@Daphne
Bet you believe Epstein took his own life, or at least make yourself believe it's true. Correct?
To all of the people frustrated with how ignorant some of these comments seem, try a steady diet of only Fox News, served once or twice a week, and see how confused or inaccurate your grasp of the issues ends up.
I would love to see the free press start to report more on the role that Fox has taken up. It is the de facto propaganda arm, if not a member of, the Trump administration. The facts should be reported -- regularly -- as such. Fox News spent decades lying on air to sow distrust in the supposed "liberal media" and it worked. The free press, never punched back. Now they have no one but the choir to preach truth to. Jon Stewart retired, members of the media. Time to start calling Fox out, the way he did nightly, putting them on the defensive, just like they did to you. You don't have to have an agenda. Just report what you see: no line between that propaganda channel and the administration it is supposed to be objectively covering on behalf of the American people. Make THEM answer to withering criticism and bring them down in the public's esteem. They are not your peers!
5
@X
TRUTH!! I miss Jon Stewart terribly.
@X What good would that do? Fox entertainment viewers wouldn't see any of that.
This isn't that hard. President Trump's ask of the Ukrainian president was corrupt. There is no way it can be portrayed as not corrupt. There is no way that Trump's interaction with Yelensky can be described as a legitimate function of the office of the presidency. Trump was not ethically and disinterestedly holding up military aid to Ukraine for the purpose of furthering a legitimate US national interest. He was doing it only for his own political interest (to try to embarrass Biden). That is corrupt and an abuse of the power of the office.
5
Can the Republicans who think the president did nothing wrong reverse the situation and ask themselves if it would have been okay for President Obama to bribe a foreign leader to get up in front of the world and tell the lie that his opponent was being investigated? Why is that ok? I'm sorry - Hillary was right. They are deplorable.
4
The fact that a President can be removed from office for high crimes, and misdemeanors, I mean, the misdemeanors have been going on his entire life. Where does one begin, his dangerous rhetoric, would be enough, in my opinion. My husband said last week, that DT is one of the most ignorant people around, and that all of those who voted for him are even more ignorant. The electoral college is the sticking point of the popular vote. Hopefully, this time around, those in the plains, Midwest, and the rustbelt, will all of had enough of bloviating policy failures with both agriculture, and manufacturing, as both of those have seen a serious slump in profits, and the long range outlook. The Ukraine fiasco is like a sink hole, the only ones sinking in the middle of it, however are the Democrats, because they know the Republicans don't care about the integrity of our past election, or the upcoming one. They should, but they don't!
5
As always, a stark difference in perception between people who get their news from a variety of sources and those who get their "news" from Fox and Right-wing propaganda.
Hard to see a solution to that one.
6
@Satter the non Fox media are basically all different shades of the resistance a la CNN - totally biased against Trump as they will (and have) find fault with everything he does.
1
Impeachment of a president misbehaving in carrying out the duties of the country's chief executive cannot take place if the president is permitted to prohibit the executive branch from providing testimony and/or other evidence of the misdeeds.
Since constitutionally defined impeachment is lawful, a president thwarting the gathering of government information providing evidence against him/her is the highest of high crimes.
6
Rome's Republic lasted for over 300 years before its Senate allowed Oligarchs of the day to take more power, ultimately ending with the absolutist rule of the Emperors.
Watching events from Canada, today I see American Senators sworn to defend Constitutional balance of powers simply shrug and maintain there is nothing wrong with a president overriding Congress to use the power of his office for partisan ends. Just as sadly, many of your citizens seem to feel the same way.
With Senatorial acquittal for the president an almost certainty, how confidently can Americans look at the lessons of history and say it can't possible happen here?
8
I appreciated the individual who “got CNN right next to Fox News.” I try to see the news from many sides and sources, while discarding those factually devoid.
I respect thoughtful opinion reaching any conclusion. But I believe that those speaking only what they have been told are diminishing their obligation as a citizen.
Here’s what I am concluding.
1. The outcome of the impeachment process appears a given.
2. Divided public support appears a given.
But I step back and look at the bigger picture. Being risk-sensitive, I appreciated Schiff’s opening comments that take a longer view (“facts will come out in the end”), and that emphasize threats leading to America’s decline. I can see how the Trump administration exacerbates these threats.
• Dismantling of a constitutional government through election meddling, voter suppression, census tampering, and gerrymandering
• Harsh divisiveness in the population that weakens a potential for American unity. Politicians still reflect the will of the people.
• Economic effects. Many favoring Trump cite the strong economy. But there is a price for everything. Trump’s Davos comments again reveal the game plan: continue lowering taxes on the wealthy and increase the deficit, and then blame the deficit on entitlements and move to cut them.
8
I am sorry to say this, but the quotes cited by the NYT indicate that Americans are, for the most part, utterly confused about what the charges against Trump are, what evidence there is to support the charges, and what the constitutional role of impeachment is.
The media, including social media, certainly deserve some of the blame for the uninformed, and in many cases misinformed, American public. But the problem - widespread ignorance - really reaches much deeper. It is rooted in our dismal education system and is exacerbated by our longstanding anti-intellectualism. Basically, Americans are not only ignorant, they are proud of it.
14
My two cents are that the House has a weak case. I don’t like Trump and am actively supporting my favorite Democratic candidates, one of whom I hope will win the Presidency.
As far as Schiff and Nadler are concerned, they turn me off as much as Trump.
3
@Landy
Because there is no reality here. There is only political motivation to destroy the campaign and possible reelection of trump. That is the only issue here for dems. Stop trump in 2020.
2
@Landy
How about we just look at the facts and never mind being turned on or turned off, and you will need a lot more than two cents to get there. Though it is concerning that some are not capable of making that distinction.
1
@bored critic
Not according to the GAO.
One just has to look at the weird guilty and unacceptable behavior and the hyperbolic partisanship of Republicans' behavior; how they're fixing the rules to know they are all working under a hierarchy of cash that effectively controls their behavior like being at gunpoint - if Republicans want to keep their offices they must fall in line as unthinking robots with no ethics.
7
None of those responses come close to adequate comprehension of the charges. Its not good enough to know what happened, the people must follow the evidence that has been unfolding. The evidence is indisputable. Is that a problem? Yes. Foreign governments announcing charges against Trump's political opponents is impeachable. If you deny that, you are accepting that for the rest of America's future, it is okay for whomever is president, to reach out and collude with foreign powers for their own gain, not the good of the US. This is a disgraceful point in history for our President, but the Republican's bi-partisan support despite this behavior will change America profoundly. It will be a tragic precedent should they accomplish their goal. I pray that enough Republican Senators see the bigger picture and the historical, irrevocable damage they will do to America should they shirk their duty to remain a separate power from the Executive branch.
5
Ehat stands out most is the level of ignorance on the part of so many of those interviewed. Everyone is entitled to an opionion, but that does not imply that every opinion is worth listening to.
2
If this level of ignorance is prevalent throughout the land, you have to conclude there is little hope for the future of America as a super power.
4
@Lazza May
Ummm, Brexit. NI border issue and the Good Friday Agreement. NI wants to remain EU with the Republic of Ireland. Ireland reunification? How's the level of ignorance in your own backyard? Mayne you should focus your attention there?
The question, I think, is whether the House managers can show enough EVIDENCE that Trump committed "high crimes and misdemeanors". The answer, unfortunately for America, is NO, because Trump shut off the evidence faucet.
The only thing these proceedings can possibly achieve is to mark the Republican senators up for re-election who care more about their party than about the country.
4
@Think_different
Don't be so sure, many have been sent to prison on much thinner evidence. The answer is, the evidence is overwhelming which is why the result was Impeachment.
1
Yes, Dems have been gunning for him from the beginning - but that does not, should not, cannot have a bearing on the here-and-now-facts of the case. The fact that they have been opposed to him from the start does give him a blanket pass. The Dems past opposition and his present crimes are mutually exclusive. It is lazy and cowardly to reason otherwise. Previous opposition does not give a pass for all future crimes.
7
@Michael
Yep. Just rewind McConnell’s comment re: Pres Obama on 1/20/2009.
Most of these people don't seem to understand how serious it is for a President to start making personal negotiations with a foreign power, using taxpayer money as leverage. Military aid was bought and paid for by us, and our Congress had voted, both Republicans and Democrats, to send it to support Ukraine, our ally, in their fight against Russia. Then Trump decides he is going withhold the aid to get the President of Ukraine to "do him a favor."
It wasn't Trump's money, it was ours, which makes it even worse that he was finagling favors for his own personal gain.
The Bidens had already been investigated about Hunter Biden's being on the board of a Ukrainian company and there was nothing there—no meddling or interference or favors—so to ask for another investigation, to try again to make Joe Biden look bad (which was what the favor Trump was asking for was) was pretty dumb anyway.
Not to make light of it, but you might say it was going to be another waste of taxpayer money.
4
I'm going to take a shot at the guy who said Czechoslovakia, and I mean this not to apply only to him, but to many Americans, my own family included.
Czechoslovakia broke up over 15 years ago as a model of a democratic transition of power. Both countries have a storied history, and an important role in the future of the EU and NATO, and are thereby inextricably linked to the US. At this point, it does not count as not keeping up with the news. It becomes self centered and ignorant. Do you need to be able to name all ~200 countries of the world and explain why I have to say about 200? No. Do you need to understand some of the key issues the world has grappled with over the past several decades? Yes. Knowing about the breakup of Czechoslovakia is part of knowing about democratic transitions in Eastern Europe and the other post-Soviet states. It's about understanding the differences between a state and a nation. It's about understanding EU and NATO expansion and the effect of that upon the Russians. Ignorance is no excuse when you have the power of the knowledge of the history of humanity in your pocket. Show some curiousity and broaden your horizons.
8
Despite living here in DC I am not political. But I find the process of the House managers presenting evidence on live television reassuring. Historians and students in the future will know that many, many of us could see the truth. I am glad the Democrats chose impeachment and focused on a particularly dangerous and egregious violation of the democratic process and the law.
5
Outstanding article. Gives a great cross-section of American views on this highly charged subject.
Turns out your average person is probably more fair - and less prone to drama/hyperbole - than the op-ed writers in the NYT.
It gives me faith in humanity.
3
The President attempted to coerce Ukraine into investigating the Biden's. That's not nice. Whether or not it is a violation of law is still a matter of opinion. The President refused to cooperate with the impeachment inquiry. That's not nice, but the House chose to make that a second article of impeachment rather than litigate it; litigation would have slowed things down.
So now we have a trial in the Senate where odds of conviction are slim and none, and slim has left town. Clearly the Democrats believe that the political theater of a show trial is to their advantage, even absent any possibility of conviction. I do hope lots of witnesses are called on both sides and extensive testimony is taken for months and months on end. It won't change any votes, but it might make the body politic think twice before going down this route again.
1
@Roger T "The President attempted to coerce Ukraine into investigating the Biden's. "
Is this a nice way of trying to say The PRESIDENT of the United States of America actively engaged in a scheme to extort a foreign country using funds appropriated by Congress in an attempt to have their President say that they were going to investigate things surrounding his political opponent? Let's not forget Rudy Giuliani's misadventures in "the Ukraine" with Lev Parnas where he engaged in a conspiracy to track an American diplomat and appear to want to harm her health? This is all backed up by publicly available information in ongoing court cases.
6
@Alexander I am afraid I failed to make clear the point of my post: there's not a ghost of a chance that the Senate removes Trump so why bother with impeachment? Though the outcome is preordained, the Democrats clearly believe that there are gains to be made through the political theater of a show trial. Good luck with that.
Senate process is somewhat fair as compared to the house impeachment.
Trump was wrong in what he did but remove him from the office is extreme.
4
@UKyankee
Extreme corrupt illegal behavior is not what we bring to the electorate to deal with, this is why the founders of our Country recognized the need for the means to deal with a President who violates his oath of office. This is why Trump was impeached and his offenses detailed in two Articles of Impeachment delivered to the Senate for trial. Trump is a threat to our Democracy and cannot be allowed to cheat in our elections or to obstruct justice. We need to rid the Country of Trump's violations of the law, then we can move on to the next election.
If Democrat's think a politician trying to dig up dirt on an opponent in an upcoming election...legal or not... is going to sway votes..they are going to be disappointed. Many voting, tax paying Americans see this economy as ??? the best it's been in decades. Trade deals that seem to work. Employment and new job opportunities doing great etc..
It's going to be tough come November..unless they remove Trump. Don't see any of the nominees that are going to improve what we have now..as bad as some things might seem, other things are humming along better than recent memory.
2
No one on Trump's team is saying he didn't hold up congressional aid They agree he did it. Their position is that as president he can commit,or break any law without consequences. He is not a king or dictator,but only a citizen. He can be replaced by the vice president or speaker of the house. If he thought their was a problem with Biden and Ukraine the correct move would be to order the F.B.I. to investigate. No one is above the law
7
What trump’s supporters don’t understand is that the reason so many of us despise the man is that he has continually abused his power since his inauguration. All Democrats had to do was wait long enough, and he gave them plenty of rope to hang him. He wouldn’t be in this spot now if he had put US interests above his own. We always knew he would. That doesn’t make it wrong to impeach him for the predictions coming true.
7
Mitch McConnell and his band of thieves need to be charged with crimes against America, along with the charlatan crook that is Trump. Who can legitimately justify this behavior??? This is a nightmare and it needs to end. Trump's entire term has been about HIM. A continuation of his ridiculous reality show, this time at the American people's and the USA's expense. Shameful! Get him out!
13
Do you hear that? That's the sound of the national IQ hitting the ground.
6
Never seen a time where Republicans are hated so much. They are openly lying and not searching for the truth. It is almost like they want a dictatorship.
7
John Bolton, come forward and tell your story NOW.
6
Sadly, I am not surprised by the partisan assessment of the impeachment trial. We are largely an ostrich nation that refuses to acknowledge the constitutional crisis before us. We would rather spend hours tweeting or watching mind numbing cat videos. Before you berate me for being a member of the coastal elite, let me assure you nothing could be further from the truth. I flip houses for a living and just got home from a 14 hour day digging in a root cellar and knocking down rotted wood. I would love to watch mindless YouTube content, but I have chosen to stay informed and read as much as I can about the facts in this case. Time for us to grow up and act like citizens not mindless droids. As Orwell so artfully noted,
“And if all others accepted the lie which the Party imposed—if all records told the same tale—then the lie passed into history and became truth. 'Who controls the past' ran the Party slogan, 'controls the future: who controls the present controls the past.” This cancerous presidency must come to an end.
12
@luluchill
Sorry lulu, but you live in a state with a coastline, work for a living, stay informed, and know who Orwell was-- all the hallmarks of a Coastal Elite. Embrace it!
I am waiting to see what happens. Will Homo sapiens survive? Do we deserve to survive? Let me know what happens before I expire..
1
How can anyone still view Donald Trump as a victim?
6
America is a nation were nearly 7 out 10 people don't have college degrees and perhaps 8 out of 10 Americans lack critical thinking skills. These are same Americans who may believe 9-11 was an inside job by the CIA and Mossad and that the moon landings were faked by NASA and that all Presidents are cheats and liars just like Trump. America like the Arab world has a "Street" - an unseemly racist, xenophobic mobocracy of poorly educated and and unthinking easily-manipulated masses who will believe any big lie oft repeated. Worse, the educated elite in the Republican Party has totally abdicated its role in protectin the Republic from the masses who would welcome a ceasar or caudillo. When the truth is lies, the Republic dies. We are witnessing the end of the American Republic. Blame Facebook, blame stupid ignorant corrupt people - blame Trump - but do not act surprised. This is how America remained a segregated racist society for 150 years - this is the norm - justice and truth and decency are aberrations. So much for American exceptionalism - we are no different than every other corrupt nation.
8
Definition of propaganda: fake news that confirms your prejudices so you don't have to question them. The Republican propaganda machine, including Fox News and Breitbart, have a grip on America. How Murdock got the right to become an American citizen staggers the imagination.
2
Speaking for an extended family of six voters, we all say impeach and remove this stain on our country.
8
This country started going downhill years ago; most likely around the Vietnam war. The imbalance of power and wealth, the blatant lies and corruption and the total lack of compassion and respect for our fellow Americans, let alone non-US citizens, is nothing short of, shall I say, deplorable.
With the election of this man, the single worst POTUS in history, and the inevitable pass he will get on his unabashed destruction of laws and our Constitution, will be one of the last nails in the coffin of democracy.
What is happening before our very eyes, in real-time, is the defeat of the United States of America.
This time.
This day
This moment.
These days will go down in history, alongside slavery, Post-Pearl Harbor concentration camps, Vietnam and the murders of JFK, MLK and RFK, as the worst in our history.
If this man is re-elected, our time as a nation is short lived, Like Rome and all other mighty empires, we will fall. It is not a matter of if, but when. The Republican party is doing what no foreign power, nuclear weapon or disease could do. And they are doing it in plain sight, without any guilt whatsoever.
I feel sad, truly sad for my kids and those who will come after us, long after we are dead and gone.
#TakeAmericaBack #VoteDemocrat
7
@Ben M
If this country has been going downhill since Vietnam then you need to look not at trump, but at the longstanding career politicians for our demise. People like biden, warren and Sanders who have been I'm the senate for years and years.
Fortunately for many of those interviewed and quoted there is no requirement that you be intelligent and informed in order to vote.
4
I cannot believe how many of the responders don't know or care about this process that should be affecting their lives greatly. I didn't see anyone asking why Congress is not doing the will of the people in the particulars of this case. Why is no one is asking the question, "If the President is indeed innocent why are the Republican senators stonewalling the process of including witnesses and documentation that could prove Trump did nothing wrong?" Does the truth frighten them that much?
5
I'm surprised not to hear more mention of two alternatives: censure, and more stringent oversight of the president's diplomatic dealings. These at least would have some chance of bipartisan support and would deal with the substance of Trump's behavior. Since impeachment has no chance of removing Trump from office, and since it's clear what he and his confederates did, the entire proceeding consists of little but posturing on both sides, an effort to inflict maximum political damage and yield minimum ground. Meanwhile real legislative priorities are being ignored, and they're approached with the same zero-sum mentality.
1
I don't know how any intelligent person can listen to the testimony offered by witnesses who came forth to testify in the House and NOT find this president guilty of abuse of power. And the fact that he and his cabinet and others ignored subpoenas proves obstruction. Since the Congress is tasked with Executive oversight, yes - it's a crime not to cooperate with the investigation.
I cannot understand the GOP's position of protecting him, except that they must believe that they would be hurting themselves politically if they did not. The whole thing is disgraceful and embarrassing to us as a nation. Trump is, in my opinion, the worst "president" in our country's history, bar none.
8
What is striking is how few people have bothered to pay attention and learn what is going on. They repeat a view they’ve heard before without trying to ascertain what facts are actually out there.
1
Bill Marcy in this article should have the most concerning viewpoint of all. A guy who uses an appeal to authority fallacy and then ignorantly proclaims he knows the law because he's a former police officer?
Last time I checked, the FBI has to investigate police departments because they don't in fact know the law.
This is the kind of thing that should scare Americans a cop who is ignorant of the law doesn't think the President did anything wrong. It's a shame that so many conservatives have their head so far submerged in the propaganda that Democrats are apparently trying to make a case the President has admitted to.
6
Lock him up. Forever. Then go after the rest of the clan.
6
It's frightening to live in a country in which over half of Americans did not know when the Holocaust happened or how many were murdered. How people can get out of high school without knowing these facts leads to support for fascist dictators who can escape consequences for their corrupt actions. This impeachment Republican farce is a good example. Without a sense of right and wrong we are lost.
6
Judging by the comments of some of these people, the ignorance displayed is so overwhelming that intelligent discussion is impossible with these people. No wonder American democracy is in jeopardy.
14
I’d venture to say that 99 percent of the people against, get all of their news from the Fox propaganda network. These people are living in a bubble of misinformation. You have to admit that Fox is very successful at getting out their lies of omission and obfuscations.
11
@Scott Kurant
Yup, that's Rupert Murdoch the Kingmaker for you...
This is beyond depressing but altogether not the least bit surprising to see this level of ignorance. And these are people that wanted to be interviewed
9
Trump is irrelevant and the Republican party has made itself irrelevant by clinging to him. They are a dead past, a sinking ship of dead ideas. It's a new world now and Republican knowledge is dead knowledge. They are trying to maintain the instruments of power and the only thing keeping it alive now is aging brains to carry on their falsifying framework - clinging to a dead past in this new era.
4
@Thomas their stranglehold on and shaping of our Judiciary for generations to come doesn't seem dead to me.
4
" a Republic, if you can keep it."
Say bye bye to the Republic and hello to King Donald and his lick-spittle courtiers.
As to the American voter, the overwhelming evidence by their own words is that the vast majority should not only NOT have the right to vote but also marry, procreate, drive, or won weapons.
4
@jbc I guess you think only the right kind of people - i.e. liberals should have those rights? Then you do not believe in democracy
1
I read the quotes on the header of this article and it depresses me that most people don't seem to realize the stakes involved.
I think Adam Schiff spelled it out brilliantly in his opening remarks today. I wish everyone could just listen to the first 20 minutes of that two hour speech.
A sham trial means there is no accountability for a president who can not be indicted according to the DOJ, and who can not be impeached, even though dozens of constitutional scholars say that if this is not impeachable behavior then nothing is. He can't even be investigated if you listen to his own lawyers making arguments to the courts.
That means there is no meaningful check on presidential power, if the Senate abrogates their responsibility here, which increasingly looks like the writing is on the wall.. There are no checks and balances, and the republic is deep deep trouble.
If Trump wins here, he will believe he is invincible, and who is to say he isn't? Woe be to all of us... of all political stripes if he escapes justice now.
12
If the Democratic presentation isn't answered by the Trump defense, should the Democrats move Roberts for a directed verdict? Or, after the Trump team moves for dismissal, and that fails, should the Democrats move for a directed verdict? Would Roberts entertain either move?
2
Contrary to assertions by conservatives, Trump's impeachment was not inevitable after Democrats won the House. Though some elements of the caucus agitated for it, Democratic leadership - namely, Nancy Pelosi - did not allow it to proceed.
It probably never would have if not for the whistleblower report exposing that Trump used military aid to extort personal political favors from Ukraine.
Democrats did not orchestrate this scandal. It arose on its own because witnesses within the government were so disturbed by Trump's conduct that they raised the alarm. His own National Security Advisor characterized the Ukraine scheme as a "drug deal." Democrats didn't 'pick' Ukraine as the thing to impeach Trump on. Events thrust the issue upon them.
7
Unfortunately Trump has shown us how fall we have fallen and the sorry state of our political system. Leadership is really nowhere to be found and you have one political party that consistently demonstrates winning is the not everything, it is the only thing. But in reality, will the oligarchy's stranglehold on us weaken even if we removed Trump? I think not. It is just another diversion to keep us at each other's throats. Well, it looks like climate change is right around the corner so it is going to be a moot point anyway. Thank goodness. I am getting tired of hearing people's opinions and seeing articles like this.
1
Never underestimate the knowledge of the American people!
2
@pat
Better yet, never overestimate it.
3
When Trump does something even more outrageous will there be a second Impeachment? When he is not removed then will there be a third Impeachment?
Trump is the least qualified person to be president and is a crook. But the Democrats are not going to remove him by impeachment and then what? We have a trial every 8 months?
Why not work on finding a candidate to who can defeat him? Or is that simply beyond the keen of the Democratic Party? With the current candidate crop they will never defeat him.
1
@Glenn How about the impeachment of this 'president'* sending the clear message that the American people do not condone and vehemently reject foreign interference in our elections?
4
@Glenn We are a sorry citizenry if we don't like any of the extremely qualified, brilliant candidates more than Trump. Whom should we nominate? A snake oil salesperson? An ex-con? A player? This is on us. We get the president we deserve.
5
The American public's lack of information, cynicism and apathy terrifies me. For the past 3 years, we've had a criminal in the White House; he has violated the Constitution from Day 1, and his general conduct is becoming of the office--yet millions still support him. It makes me very worried for the future of this country. I so wish the citizenry paid attention to what is going on and realize that Mafia-Don's actions affect us all! An imperial Presidency is NOT what our Founders wanted, and impeachment is the recourse against that occurring!
4
It's just one phone call! (Not really but let's accept the argument. )
It's just one brick through a window!
It's just one head on collision!
It's just one fatal overdose !
It's just one bullet through the heart.
4
I am sympathetic with the person who said "They should have listed about 50 things." I would start with:
1. Emoluments, though the operative word here is 'corruption'. Trump's businesses are barely-veiled venues for bribing him. That's why people with interests before the government pay $200K for Mar-a-Lago memberships or spend lavishly at Trump International Hotel D.C. It's why the Chinese granted Ivanka valuable trademarks and why the Qataris bailed out one of Jared's failing real estate investments.
Meanwhile, Trump has shoveled millions in taxpayer dollars into his pocket by dragging his whole White House and Secret Service entourage to Trump properties where they have to pay for hotel rooms and golf cart rental. That's as much pathetic as it is corrupt.
2. Obstruction of justice. The Mueller Report documented 10 instances of obstruction and clearly implied Trump could be indicted for these if he were anyone in the world except POTUS. Every single instance Mueller documented was as bad as or worse than what Republicans impeached Bill Clinton for.
Alas, we simply don't have time to impeach Trump for all of these things. He got caught soliciting foreigners to sabotage our elections again and Democrats had to try to stop him.
7
It's not about Trump the man. It's a crime to solicit foreign interference in the 2020 election, even when you're president. the President subsequently refused to cooperate with House committees by withholding evidence and defying witness subpoenas. He has defiled the Constitution and betrayed an ally . What's not to impeach; convict and remove from office? .
5
It's sad that so many people have no idea why Trump has been impeached, no clue what the charges are against him. They think the Democrats simply cooked up a scheme to "invalidate the election" when the truth is so different. Many of Trump's supporters believe he can do no wrong and deny his involvement in corrupt activities.
I'm certain that many voters don't even realize that impeachment is forever and believe that, if the president is acquitted, the impeachment will be invalidated. The comments from many of his supporters are naive and show that most of them lack even a rudimentary understanding of how impeachment works.
It should be obvious, from the president's own words and actions, that he knows he is guilty and is depending on his fellow Republicans to bail him out of the situation. And "Moscow Mitch" is a large part of the problem. He is doing everything he can to make sure the Senate never hears from witnesses who will provide evidence of Trump's guilt. He has also basically commanded the GOP to acquit Trump, rather than be fair and impartial.
What has happened to our country? In only 3 short years, we have become divided, heartless and selfish. But I believe there is hope. The sooner we get the Republicans out of office, the better off we will be. November is rapidly approaching and we have a chance to get this nation back on track. Vote blue!
7
I wasn’t a Republican nor voted for a Trump. I will admit now after seeing what he has accomplished that his record says it all. If one understands NAFTA and trade, plus Sovereignty, they would see a significant change to our policies and how this has impacted America. I do not care about his morals for a Bill a Clinton was no better. The American people will let their voice be known in Nov of 2020. That’s what is important. If one truly understands the past and history of a Ukraine with other presidents and officials, they would see this smokescreen.
1
@Steve!
Great economy, lousy Constitution.
Oh well .... you apparently prefer a market based authoritarian form of government. The Grifter in Chief knows how to sell his snake oil.
The outline Adam Schiff, Crow, and others have given the last two days spells out exactly what the president did, his obstruction, and the reasons for his impeachment.
For those who don't read newspapers, don't watch reliable news programs, and can't tell the difference between fact and fiction would be very enlightened if they actually listened and followed the timelines.
I can only hope that these Americans are now better able to use their critical thinking. Witnesses and documents were obstructed by Trump and his White House. Why - is clear - as they most probably incriminate him on all levels. If the Dems have it wrong let the witnesses testify and release the documents. Let the testimony begin.
3
Mitch says that the Democrats want to impeach him because they don’t like him.
Duh!
Perhaps there are a million reasons for not liking him, not the least of which are abuse of power
and obstruction of Congress.
I don’t think you need a specific reason beyond the undefined high crimes and misdemeanors.
For any or no reason at all, if the Senate by two thirds says he’s out, he’s out.
That would be enough reason.
We don’t want you!
It won’t happen, of course. More’s the pity.
1
I was raised in Ohio, in a family strongly Democratic. I agree with the first comment from the fellow in Ohio who said -
As one independent voter from Ohio put it, “maybe they should ask the people what they should do. It should be our vote.”
Yep, that's what's going to happen. It's going to a vote....to all Americans, in about 8 months or so.
Y'all can watch the Senate, but just as everyone knows 'he did it', 67 votes are nowhere to be found.
It makes the media all excited, but it's a big yawn for me.
I'll be sitting on the moon before Republican Senators will ever vote their President out of office.
I'll wait to put my check in Joe Biden's box....that's my vote.
2
The blissful ignorance of the facts displayed by many of these people is appalling. But it sure explains a lot.
4
Amazing how many Trump supporters I talked to don't understand the charges in the first place and think what Trump did is not breaking the law. What is worse is their thinking that Trump engaged in ethical behavior which makes us question their ethical standards
2
Having digested much of the information on this topic here and in other news outlets makes me feel comfortable that my suspicion of the US actually being a plutocracy is less ephemeral than the medium of suspicion would otherwise posit.
I guess a good metaphor would be: how many cabdrivers have been thankful for that partition while thanks to their rear view mirror discretion only the invisible deities can say for sure what's happening ruckus-wise in the backseat. Arriving at the destination with the cab not-overturned the cabbie can forget what may have been heard and seeks the next fare.
Commerce proceeds apace!
1
It is disappointing to see how the side which sees "impeachment as a ploy in a wider partisan war against Mr. Trump" fails to address in any way the evidence against him. How do you respond to the fact that in a transcript released by the White House itself we see him asking the leader of a foreign nation to open investigations into a political rival? And withholding aid which was approved by Congress until this investigation is launched? Using the office for personal gain. If that is not corruption of power, I don't know what is.
I don't know if this lack of addressing the evidence is ignorance on their part (because they only watch Fox News which never mentions this), or it is because they have no defense for this crime, or it is because they don't even consider it a crime? I don't know which of these realities is the most depressing.
1
@Abd Raheem They're stuffing their pockets full of foreign money while t* plays distraction. They're getting filthy rich on graft and backdoor deals selling out America. America and the WH are for sale and so is the senate and much of the GOP in congress.
2
Most of the comments make me glad I didn’t have children so they won’t have to suffer through the consequences that will be brought by the vast know-nothingness of what seems to be the majority of Americans.
6
Never forget, folks, that the choice was between The Donald and Hillary.
I say we’ve done better with him at the helm than her despite the three-year assault on Trump.
4
@EGD Aaaaand there we have the ultimate Republican argument. Trump breaks the law, subverts democracy, defies the Constitution, destroys lives, blows up the deficit, takes numerous steps to wreck the economy ( trade war, tax cuts), brings us to the verge of war, trashes our allies, praises dictators, undermines the free press, but hey, at least he’s not Hilary Clinton, so we’re good with that. And Repubs accuse Dems of having a vendetta?
6
I worked in a federal lending program. Trump's actions are be no different than if I had approved and obligated a loan, and then at the last minute told the applicant the funds would only be released when he "did me a favor" - the favor could have been money or anything else. I would have been charged with a crime. It's really not that complicated. The Applicant met the requirements, Congress had appropriated the funds, but I decided to hold them up because I wanted something for myself personally. This is what happened. It's illegal.
13
Many of the people you interviewed seem to have missed the point. Whether you think the Democrats are trying to overturn the election, or you think we should wait until the next election, that is all not relevant to the actual inquiry. The real question, regardless of all else, is whether or not the president did all that he is accused of. And the facts resulting in Trump’s impeachment are incontrovertible, unchallenged by any contrary physical or testimonial evidence. Now, some folks may not think that what Trump did is impeachable (they would be wrong), but the facts are the facts. And rejecting impeachment on the basis of Democrats’ motivations or availability of a near-term election is an egregious rejection of the seriousness of the misconduct.
12
In summary, if the respondent is aware of the actual allegations, facts and testimony....they tend to believe Trump is guilty. If they're not really aware of the specific issues or charges, then they see it as a hoax.
I think most of us who are paying attention to this impeachment already knew that.
5
I can't understand this.
Trump is legally required to disburse the funds that Congress appropriates. If he really didn't want money to go to Ukraine he should have told Mitch McConnell-- and McConnell could have taken it out of the budget. Trump did not do so, but neither did he disburse the funds in a timely manner, and without demanding, basically, a bribe. That is a clear violation of the law.
Trump is also, as I understand it, legally barred from accepting foreign help in an election campaign. Not just accepting foreign help but demanding it from an allied nation goes way, way beyond what should be tolerated from any politician in America.
Those two points are much more evidence of "high crimes and misdemeanors" than Nixon or Clinton ever faced. Yet so many respondents could not see that Trump had done anything wrong! I can only assume that the effect of right wing news outlets is even more damaging to America than I previously believed.
Maybe "nobody likes Bernie." I certainly don't. But if Bernie Sanders is the Democratic candidate for president I will vote for him and I will work for him to be elected. Our only hope now is a huge blue wave.
5
I am so disillusioned. Why can’t our elected officials just do the right thing for the people instead of posturing for their political re election ? Very disheartened.
4
Why would anyone on trial NOT want evidence shown unless that evidence clearly shows guilt.
Why would lawyers, senators etc. want to suppress evidence that show their client has done nothing wrong.
Why would the president of the United States order everyone in the white house, state department, anyone with knowledge of Ukraine issue, to refuse subpoena or testimony at the impeachment trial ?
Unless, that evidence or testimony shows guilt.
Why would that happen?
5
I hate to say it, but it seems as if a lot of people just don't understand the gravity of the situation. It's really quite sad because this is probably the most serious case a president has made for himself to be impeached.
Mr. Conway actually explained it quite well in his commentary on CNN.
6
Bafflegab: communicating with the explicit purpose of confusing your audience.
Hard to know for sure, but it seems from the quotes as though conservatives who likely got their news through conservative media were much more unclear on the charges.
Fox Bafflegab
1
My country used to be a beacon of honesty, fair play, generosity and friendliness. Now it carries a banner of hatred, cruelty, retribution and revenge. How can we set adrift the Kurds and the Ukrainians, who have been steadfast allies?
5
The Oxford Dictionary defines the U.S. meaning of "impeach" as "charge a holder of public office with misconduct." It's from the Latin for "to impede."
Many people seem to think it means "dismiss."
1
You asked the wrong people.
Most Americans are not following this.
And they also are not following the election process.
Last election, over 40% of our fellow citizens didn't bother voting. They couldn't be bothered.
Nor do they read the NYT.
Sorry to bust your bubble.
2
The only thing that startles me in this article is how uneducated people are about this. I think it reflects the general population, both Democratic and Republican.
How unfortunate and terrifying that not only is the political process problematic, but the citizens of the US are as much a part of the problem.
Nothing new here, nothing I have never heard but it finally hit me.
I am being governed by uneducated (a polite word) and people I wouldn't even let in to my home.
4
Once 45 attempted to bribe Zelenksy into helping Trump's campaign to damage his main rival, Biden (at the time) Pelosi had to respond. Attempting to illegally affect the presidential election is a red line that must never be crossed. Trump must go and/or the enablers such as McConnell who protect this illegal behavior. If Americans shrug over this, our country is no longer an democracy ruled by law. We Americans will have to take to the streets and shut down our country until this cheating and illegal behavior is dealt with.
5
Interesting but utterly useless as a measure of anything. The general opinion of 81 people is not a decent sample even for a serous piece of focus group research on the topic.
Let's impeach him all over again when the MBS-National Enquirer-Bezos hacking scandal now being investigated by the UN reveals a quid pro quo between Trump and the Saudis.
I hope we resoundingly vote this thug out in November, but if he is somehow returned to office he'll certainly go down in history as the only president to be impeached twice.
And some people will still choose to be too uninformed to know why.
3
Many of us need to be better informed.
4
Trump accuses Biden of an emolument, from a term gone by...water under the bridge, passed and gone. Trump had pledged to divest his business interests;his golf courses, hotels, trademarks, vineyards and wines...etc...but he did not. Any foreign entity can now solicit his ear and favor, simply by booking blocks of rooms at his hotels, golf course memberships, buying up wines, investing in his companies.etc,,.right now in real time! This is an emolument! It is an obvious conflict of interest, and it is what Trump should really be impeached for. Unfortunately our mired legal system can not crack open his banking records in time for this to be aired so the democrats have to go for low hanging fruit, and believe me, with Trumps mafia-style behavior, there is plenty to be had.
2
Can we impeach voters who don't care and can't bother to learn the basic facts about one of the most important events in our nation's, and perhaps the world's, history?
6
I'm hardly encouraged. If you've ever been the brunt of US jokes abroad, this survey clearly shows why. We do not come across as a thoughtful and consistent people when viewed from afar. We generally represent ourselves even more poorly when viewed up close.
Of course, the researcher in me knows this survey is less than meaningless. 81 people in 30 states? I could easily contact 100 people working a single night as a community organizer. That's in one neighborhood. 81 people in 30 states is statistically irrelevant. Especially when selection methodology is withheld. A guy on a golf course? What was the interviewer doing on a golf course?
This isn't the sort of rigorous study one would expect to represent anything. This is "Brett Hutchins" style journalism. See Apollo 13.
Scariest of all in reading other reader comments is how seriously our education system has failed to educate. So many seem to have their facts wrong that their opinions are worthless. Surprising since so many appear to be readers of this paper of record which has been straining to remain fair in its coverage. Also they seem to blithely ignore the president's growing rap sheet which includes two adjudicated instances of fraud for which he had to make restitution. What is on record and with his own words show a pattern of criminal enterprise that laces through his resume as a so-called mogul of real estate development. Practically every person he has worked with in the past few years including a campaign manager and personal lawyer are in prison. Pardon paraphrasing of a cliche, but crooks of a feather flock together. He is systematically corrupting our democracy and needs to be called on it.
4
If it's not a scientific sampling, why publish it? It creates a false narrative.
1
I watched the November House Intelligence Committee hearings and I’m watching the Senate impeachment trial proceedings. They are not difficult to comprehend. As a retired Foreign Service officer, I have every respect for Amb. Marie Yovanovitch and Amb. Bill Taylor. They gave clear, precise testimony in the November hearings. If people understand spoken English, they should understand the importance of their statements.
I am familiar with the way our diplomats operate overseas. As Senate-confirmed, sworn officers of our government they defend our national security. Rudy Giuliani and Lev Parnas did not swear any oath to defend and uphold our Constitution. The president enlisted them to subvert the U.S. diplomatic mission and ambassador in Ukraine. Why?
If he had suspected the Bidens of committing illegal acts in Ukraine, he should have ordered the Justice Department to open an investigation. Instead, he pressured the new administration of Ukrainian President Zelensky to open investigations into their activities or else no White House meeting and no release of U.S. military funds. This is extortion.
If he was not satisfied with Amb. Yovanovitch’s performance in Kyiv, he could have recalled her with out telling a foreign head of state that she would experience “some things” when she returned to the U.S. It appears the president wanted Yovanovitch out of the way so that he could continue pressuring the Ukrainian government to go along with his attacks against Joe Biden.
7
What I am reading from the responses of conservatives supporting Trump, is only one thing.....How can I destroy the Haves to Have nots. Their reasoning is win-win ‘ I have nothing, you have everything, so let me drag you down a few notches so you will know what it is to have nothing.’ The end result being they have nothing and so do we. It’s a zero-sum game. This is why the republican senators are betting on Trump. Democratic candidates need to wade through America, speak to everyone off the streets who is blue collar, democrat or republican and offer them an alternative incentive more attractive than this. Till then all the lofty ideals and eloquent rationalizing will be lost in the wind of ignorant resentment.
1
They should have added another article of impeachment: "The President is not a decent human being." If you look at how he behaves towards people I would be surprised if you would invite him into your home. And of course, he lies a little bit. He thinks calling people names is normal for an adult. He apparently never grew up. He should be the leader of a Neverland gone wrong. Where's the crocodile when you need him?
2
After reading these quotes, it is truly amazing the dichotomy between Democrats and Republicans. Does anyone ever read anything? Or do they try to reason through anything? They just want to believe what Faux New and our liar in chief tells them. Iguess the Republicans no longer care about the constitution, laws, or facts. All they care about is the Republican party in power. So much for our country. I am disgusted and depressed.
1
@bluegirlredstate
Self-validating?
Many of us find the behavior of Democrats and ‘progressives’ over the past three years even more appalling than DJT.
1
@EGD Well, many of us believe that Russia elected DJT. DJT asked, "Russia if you are listening..." and they were!
1
There isn’t a single quote that suggests this particular sample of American people has any idea of what is at stake. If the President is allowed to use his power and taxpayers’ money to create misinformation (with the help of a foreign power) against his political opponent, the 2020 election will be a fraud. In fact, every election in the future will be a fraud because when this President gets away with this, every president going forward will be free to do the same. No on interviewed for this article seems to understand that giving him a pass will make it impossible to have free and fair elections in America.
Actually, the situation is even worse than these interviews indicate. Jimmy Kimmel sent his crew onto Hollywood Blvd to ask people how they voted on impeachment. Every one of them believed there had been an election on the question of impeachment and every one of them pretended to have voted in it. They were even asked specific questions, like did you vote with an absentee ballot? Not only are people abysmally ignorant, they are also willing to lie about their ignorance.
4
We live in an idiocracy in America where folks don't see anything wrong with a president believing nonsense conspiracies and soliciting help from a foreign government to dig up dirt on his opponent to try and win an election. The impeachment isn't about not liking Trump, and it's not about the 2016 election--which Trump lost by 3 million votes. It's about holding him accountable for doing things that are amoral, unpresidential, and flat out illegal, yet people continue to say, what he did was wrong, but not impeachable. People in Trump's corner are willing to justify any and all of his behavior--it's as shameful as the GOP is spineless. In the real world, people admit when they are wrong and are held accountable for misdeeds, but in the political world, admitting wrong is seen as a weakness to be exploited for gain. There is no doubt that if Trump murdered a liberal, his supporters would cheer it on, and find a way to justify such actions or just blame Obama for the bloodshed. It's not hyperbolic at all to say so at all. Trump is a con artist who knows his supporters will believe anything he says, and blame the Democratic party for daring to hold him accountable. When you vote for a man who runs a business like a dictator, it's not surprising you get a president who runs the country like a dictatorship.
2
Why is there confusion on this impeachment?
Because the path here has been totally meandering, circuitous, fraught with dead ends, and too long, way too long. It was a movement in search of a reason.
Here is a timeline of calls for impeachment from NPR.
https://www.npr.org/2019/12/17/788397365/impeachment-timeline-from-early-calls-to-a-full-house-vote
It goes pack to 2017. It omits much, specifically one would-be Dem POTUS who based his whole campaign on a self-funded impeachment campaign, Tom Steyer on 10/21/17 was calling for impeachment. Here is another timeline from NeedToImpeach.com and it's genesis is with Tom Steyer:
https://www.needtoimpeach.com/movement-timeline/
“The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.”
Winston Churchill
6
If you can think of some way to bring America back together, I would pat you on the back and give you an award.
Keep the award, the answer's the very same as too many presidents (especially in recent history of the Republican kind) have already figured out. Go to war! It doesn't even have to be declared. Trump was looking for just that with his assassination of an Iranian general. Never mind. There'll be no end of opportunities especially with the other two branches of government either compromised by their hypocritical buy ins, or beaten down like House Democrats by Trump&Co's big lie of the day reliably amplified by Facebook, Twitter, and Rupert Murdoch's rugged outback American style, Fox and Friends.
What sort of government do we have? A dictatorship or Monarchy if we let it happen in plain sight. This reads like an organized crime drama; not entertaining for anyone, though.
1
Well here's what I've got to say! Anyone who isn't outraged isn't paying attention. This is anything but partisan rage. It's rage that Trump is exceptional in American history. He gets away with everything no one else would. So far he is well above the law. This has to end and soon. Otherwise we are a ruin - nothing but a white nationalist ethno-state.
2
The GOP has no choice but to defend Trump and limit the evidence allowed because their leadership is as deeply involved in this chaotic mess as the president himself. AG Barr? Complicit. VP Pence? Ditto. Secretary of State Pompeo? There’s a pattern here. How about the ranking member of the House Intelligence Committee Devin Nunes? He was doing precisely what he adamantly denied was happening! Republicans’ disgraceful creation of a completely false narrative is based on their believing - or more likely, pretending they believe - that Trump was a corruption fighter is absurd. You’d have to have spent the last 30 years on Pluto to believe such nonsense. Or have a degree from Trump University.
4
My lord. A stirring restoration of faith in my fellow citizens this was not.
If this is the level of intelligence Americans are bringing to bear on the issue, we're cooked.
"I don’t lean any direction. It’s too easy to fall over when leaning. I prefer standing upright."
Pure inanity disguising a colossal lack of discernment or curiosity.
3
Apparently, based on the people in this article, Donald Trump really could shoot someone in the middle of Fifth Avenue and not lose a single supporter.
God help us all.
3
Honestly, the problem with this impeachment is the allegations are not sufficiently salacious. Bill Clinton's impeachment had all the stuff tabloid readers love -- sex, adultery, mendacity, etc. etc. Trump's impeachment has a pushy phone call to a foreign president whose name most Americans can't remember who leads a country most American couldn't find on a map that needs aid to fight Russia in a war most Americans have never heard of. Yes, he deserved to be impeached for obstruction of Congress, but "obstruction of Congress" sounds to like he stood in a doorway and taunted Adam Schiff.
Frankly, it would have been much easier had the Democrats impeached Trump for his deliberate failure to "preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution." At least there's video of him standing out in public with his hand on a Bible swearing to that. TV-weaned Trump and his acolytes are at least savvy enough to know that if you can't see it, or can't visualize it (like Clinton with his pants down in the Oval Office -- sorry for raising that image), there's no there there. Even if there is.
When I think of all the really terrible things Trump has done in 3 years, like turning the clock back on environmental protection and locking children in cages, this particular crime is petty. To expect the Republican party to say or do anything when they are complicit in so many larger crimes is laughable. Voters need to turn out and turn these people out.
1
I'm a registered democrat but it's hard to see how this particular impeachment process/trial helps dems in November. Essentially, the Republicans will not vote to fire Trump so he stays and the various pols hash it all out on the hustings leading up to November. Republicans will say "he didn't break any law", dems could have asked for courts to compel witnesses to appear before the house investigation so there's no obstruction of congress. If Trump was not going to push an investigation of a suspicious character abroad then who? Our political system's adversarial process protects us via the impeachment investigation so why not also when it comes to corruption abroad ? Dems refused to agree to Bidens' as witnesses. Suspicious?
I think Dems win on the accumulation of wrong doing by the Trump administration, not on the basis of whatever discussion flows from impeachment process.
2
Curious to know how many who were asked, actually know what is in the Constitution? Do they understand the Articles, and the role of Congress being a check on the Executive? Because our President doesn't know - nor cares. As voters we should care and that should be a basic question asked of ANY official willing to run for public office.
1
Our Founding Fathers pledged their lives, their fortunes, and their sacred honor to give birth to this nation and the idea that people are wise enough and responsible enough to rule themselves. I love America, but I am no longer sure that Americans are capable of self-government. For democracy to work, people must be educated and informed. Thomas Jefferson once wrote that, "if a nation expects to be ignorant & free . . . it expects what never was & never will be." Too many Americans want to be entertained, not informed. They would rather watch mud wrestling than take the time to educate themselves. I can't help but think of one of Trump's campaign rallies in 2016 where he informed the crowd that he loved low information voters, and they all enthusiastically cheered for him. A second vital component is that people must be willing to compromise. In a nation as diverse as ours, no one group can expect to get 100 percent of what it wants-everyone must be willing to compromise to get anything done. Closely connected to this is that people must be willing to accept the will of the majority, but the basic rights of minority groups must be respected. No group should fear for its rights simply because it can be outvoted. In an age of obstructionist politics very little if any of this is happening. People should be mindful that democracies are fragile and their failure is usually preceded by lawlessness followed by tyranny, a situation where no one's rights are secure.
Five of Donald Trump's advisors so far have been charged with crimes and some are already in prison. This speaks for itself about this president and his criminal activities.
3
Did you see the ages? Very few under 30 years old.
3
It is rich to read comments like "It's made-up stuff," as if anyone could make this up, as if these aren't the same "lock her up" people who actually made things up, as if we the people should all put our fingers in our ears.
4
This country will go down in shame if so many Americans think that Trump’s misdeeds is no big deal. Conservatives say they are against corruption and support the most corrupt President in US history. We never get rid of corruption if Republicans are in charge.
If Trump is innocent why is he blocking any testimony? Why not let his people talk and humiliate Democrats? Wouldn’t he love to do just that? Isn’t it what he has been doing last 3 years? Ridicule and humiliate other people?
However, if he is guilty he would do exactly what he is doing right now.
2
Totally partisan. Dangerously partisan.
The Dems have opened the door to impeachment whenever you dislike or disagree with a President. The Dems are doing far more damage to the country than in their minds Trump has ever done. Think about it. The Repubs will now continue it in later years with a vengeance.
The whole system is at risk-and for what?
Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind-lots of foolish people in this country.
Get a good candidate and defeat him in the election-but they're clearly afraid that he will win again-it shows. The irony is that "progressives" really don't like elections-they're too unpredictable.
3
“Abuse of Power” is subjective. It might be backed up if Trump actually committed a crime.
“Would you have guessed that the 21-year-old we mentioned was a Republican, and the 82-year-old a Democrat?”
Why, yes! I once voted as a Republican.
This 60+ -year-old voter can’t imagine doing that now.
With age comes wisdom.
3
The Senate Republicans have made a bold statement that 'Trump is above the law and foreign countries are welcome to interfere our elections.' They need to be voted out of office. Get rid of these weak people, it's a disgrace they are holding office in our Congress. Trump didn't even try to conceal this shakedown and he absolutely and unlawfully withheld military aid to an ally at war with Russia. He's a crook and always has been.
3
"Would you have guessed that the 21-year-old we mentioned was a Republican, and the 82-year-old a Democrat?"
In a heartbeat.
1
I can only watch the impeachment process for a minute or two as the degree to which lying and corruption have degenerated governing (and democracy) in my lifetime makes me ill. I now rely on closed captioning as even the voices of DJT and his minions (McConnell, Graham, Pence, and more) seriously sicken me. I always vote but fear for America as capitalism has morphed and infected any balance of democracy here. Thanks to all the brave civil servants and fact-checkers who speak up. I'm listening to you.
5
Why bother?
To be fair, I only skimmed a few of the Republicans' comments.
That said, it's not unreasonable to conclude that Democrats and Republicans are living in different countries and see the US and the world very differently.
The Republicans will stand by their Dear Leader at any cost.
North Koreans stand by Kim Jong-un largely because to do otherwise risks their lives.
American Republicans have no such fear, and yet they stand by a deranged con man without any regard for the truth, reality, or the future of American democracy.
It could be argued (passive voice deliberate) that America is in a worse position than North Korea.
2
I think there are some people who do not understand that there was an actual statute involved, and it was violated. I also think all those with a cynical bent of mind think all presidents conduct foreign policy with an eye to their own personal benefit a la Trump. I hear that cynicism and it makes me cringe.
3
An un-informed and un-interested citizenry is the most dangerous power that can be had by a corrupt leader. A number of the responses featured in this nyt questionnaire answers the question, how did Trump become president.
4
The House had to impeach Trump to prevent him from redefining the presidency. Every one of his actions that is different from past presidents is setting a precedent that future presidents can and will follow. The Emoluments Clause in the Constitution was not enforced and is now meaningless. Not having a full-fledged investigation of Brett Kavanaugh is now precedent and future congressmen do not have to investigate. Trump's quid pro quo with the Ukraine, if not investigated, would have also become the norm. He had to be investigated in an attempt to save the presidency as we have come to know it. What will happen with the Senators who vowed to be impartial?
4
Super-depressing how little people seem to understand or care. Like our lovely planet, we won't appreciate what we have until it is gone, and it will be much too late. We have a far distance to fall people, and the landing will be rough. But it is because the system, which relies on a well informed populace and political leaders with dignity and honor, is failing.
4
@Jsw
My Dad allows said it was the dumbing down of the citizens and then they could do whatever want and no one would notice.
I'm afraid he was right.
1
This just shows that the Dems are horrible at controlling the message. And what is the message? It's Trump's blatant corruption.
And now I'm reminded of a bedrock principle in creative writing: show, don't tell.
What I wish the House Managers will do more of is connect how Trump's corruption in Ukraine impacts the average American. I thought Congressman Crow was going there when he mentioned that he was in the military and what it means to get "military aid/supplies".
Military aid to Ukraine is an abstract concept to most Americans. The Dems must show how truly awful it is for the Ukrainians fighting on the front lines.
The Dems also need to connect how Trump's bribery/extortion of Ukraine impacts the average American. Most immediately, it could impact military families because there could be deployments. If Ukraine falls, then the balance in Europe could be strained and trade with Europe could suffer. Things like that.
As William Carlos Williams wrote, "no ideas, but in things"
So of these 81 people, let me guess:
23 think Bernie is all that.
20 think Buttegig is cool.
15 are concerned about Warren.
23 think Biden is slurring words.
Then there are the 18 who like both Bernie and Biden.
And 82 will be dissatisfied if Klobuchar wins the primary, say that she makes them uncomfortable, either vote for a Kremlin appointed third party candidate, or not vote at all, or worse yet, vote for Trump to show us up for not supporting their favored dem candidate.
1
To quote Thomas L Friedman of the Times, “Why would an innocent man not want all the evidence out and all the witnesses to testify? Wouldn’t you if you were innocent?”
We are in collective shock with the cynical, brazen lock-step tactics used by Republicans and their "base" to divide and attempt to destroy this country. The impeachment is but one example. As the Washington Post reporters, Rucker and Leonnig who just published "A Very Stable Genius" pointed out in their Rachel Maddow interview recently, numerous credible administration and government civil servants confided in the reporters/authors that Mr. Trump is unstable and dangerous for the country. The facts are well-known.
Evidently there is a great deal of fear that is massaged to motivate elected officials to turn a blind eye to what had happened and is happening. The situation is dangerous: a dangerous precedent. It has never worked out for governments to abdicate their responsibility and lash themselves to a mad man.
Perhaps a silent, anonymous ballot is called for.
1
Why is the case for impeachment described as complicated? That phrasing gives the electorate an excuse to tune it out. Trump used the authority of the presidency (to withhold foreign aid) for personal gain (help with his re-election). That is corruption. And he commanded his underlings to defy congressional orders. That is obstruction.
And so far, the pro-impeachment crowd is winning by default. Trump's defense thus far has completely lacked substance.
2
Americans deserve to have a more rapid voice in their government. When I see the political grand-standing by both parties, I feel they no longer serve the citizens. Surely, someone can invent a method whereby citizens can register their approval or disapproval of issues with more immediacy. If elected representatives (including our President) will not "do the right thing" (for example, implement and/or follow our laws), they need to find another line of work.
In 2016, the FBI was concerned about potential links between the Trump campaign and Russia. They, and the rest of the Obama administration, said nothing about it until after the election was over.
When Trump asked Ukraine for an investigation he explicitly required for it to be publicly announced. If he was looking to prevent corruption or otherwise act in the interests of the United States rather than his own, why did he not ask that the Bidens be given the same rights he himself had?
2
It is really hard not to be physically ill at the mockery the Senate leader and his cronies are making of their sworn oath. Vote them all out beginning with one of the MOST evil men ever to have served. Moscow Mitch is who I am referring to, but there could be confusion as to whether or not I meant Trump. Well, that works too.
5
I shudder to realize that people in other countries are watching these goings-on. Foreigners who admire the values America has long stood for must be shocked and dismayed that more than half of our senators (along with a good many ordinary citizens) tolerate — indeed, support! — a president who has done the sorts of things Donald Trump has done.
When, oh when will we in this country come to our senses?!
6
Reading this was demoralizing on so many levels. How can
citizens be this ignorant of the facts?
America is an exceptional country. We have a Constitution and institutional framework to be very proud of. We owe that to our country's founders and to all who fought to keep our country free and strong.
America's citizens are in danger of losing it all because of willful ignorance. No one can claim that Donald Trump is a moral and just man in good conscience. There is far too much evidence right in front of us that makes it clear what he is. And with every passing day, it becomes more clear that too many Americans take our country for granted.
Voting in our elections is treated as something optional, if you feel like it. This is how you lose your democracy.
Every eligible voter needs to vote in every election even when there are only a couple of local issues to be decided.
The President needs to be removed from office. The House did their job, the Republican Senate is apparently too corrupt to do theirs.
8
@Barbara Schneider well said.
Our lack of civic engagement and common sense are both on display here. Sad that many think this man has done nothing wrong and he’s fit to run this country.
7
At this late date so near to the next election, I'm for censure. The list of allegations against him should have been as long as his arm, and that would have justified removal. It's too late now; let the voters decide whether to keep him in office.
2
Americans should be paying attention to Trump's plans to cut Social Security and Medicare according to his speech today.
9
I believe the crux of why he's being impeached is easy to follow. It's sad how many people are uniformed.
5
Wow. I watch both Fox News and MSNBC, listen to both right-wing talk radio and NPR. It is like visiting two very different worlds, and it is striking to me how much the people you interviewed use the phrasing of the talking points from the side with which they self-identify. No wonder the polls re: impeachment have hardly budged during this whole process. And no wonder that I get the sensation, watching the Senate, that no one is really listening to what is being said.
5
Thomas Jefferson stated: ""An educated citizenry is a vital requisite for our survival as a free people". Yet surveyed information such as this show how little good information has penetrated the minds of the populace. Perhaps it is because we are deluged with distraction, misinformation, and propaganda. It is so sad that this impeachment process is being interpreted as left versus right, blue versus red, when in fact it is all about right versus wrong, democracy versus autocracy.
12
JLC,
You confuse me. Your comment suggests that all evidence including witnesses be presented so that each Senator will have all the information necessary to make a decision. I’m sure you will agree that Republican Senators should not make up their minds until all the evidence is presented. Don’t you think all Senators, even Democrats should wait until hearing all the evidence before making a decision
But, honestly do you think that any Republican or any Democrat is open to getting their minds changed? Do you think that any of them would change their minds after hearing evidence.
Is there any evidence that could change your mind, or have you pretty much decided, even though you, like our Senators, haven’t seen all the evidence? Just asking. If we can’t be honest with ourselves, how can we ask that of others?
1
"People we spoke with who said they did not want Mr. Trump to be removed from office tended to view impeachment as an intensely personal attack on the president..."
OK, I can see how those with that POV or just a certain studied ignorance about the matter might feel this way.
They should consider how they would feel about Trump's antics (and the prez's rather Alfred E. Neuman "what me worry?" reaction to being found out) if this was Obama doing even 10% of what Trump's defenders say the rest of us should just get over.
We all know they would have an intensely different reaction. Impeachment wouldn't be good enough. They would be demanding capital-crime-level charges.
When this history gets written, fair-minded observers will conclude that the only hoax perpetrated here was by the president.
8
@Mike
retired federal attorney F/71
If historians stay with the obvious, they will report Malign Mitch's complete capture of this mentally and physically unwell man in The White House. Classic PuppetMaster and literally unhinged puppet.
Mitch's goal may be accomplished: capture the third branch of government with ABA-rated "unfit to serve" youngsters across all layers of our federal judiciary who have lifetime appointments. Judges and courts that will not let the capital controlled by our 1% be diminished should the Senate and House go back to D control?
2
Ask yourself what if the perfect call had been made to Vladimir Putin or Kim Jong Un? Had that happened Donald Trump would have opened himself and this country to blackmail, the country who did us a "favor" providing Trump with a laundry list of demands. They would make it clear if the president did not comply, they would take their information to the media broadcasting it on the 24-hour cable news cycle. Trump would be at their mercy unable to say no. Think of it that way.
2
Civics education in the U.S. is obviously in crisis, based on the level of knowledge shown by many in this article. An uninformed electorate cannot make informed choices.
14
@Jackie
"An uninformed electorate cannot make informed choices."
That may be the point, it's not a new technique. It has been used for centuries as a means of control.
After the 1960s civics offerings in high schools were slashed as the curriculum narrowed...
Only 25 percent of U.S. students reach the “proficient” standard on the NAEP Civics Assessment.
Students in wealthier public school districts are far more likely to receive high-quality civics education than students in low-income and majority-minority schools.
http://neatoday.org/2017/03/16/civics-education-public-schools/
ignorance is bliss . most are happier Not knowing. Just like how food is produced and how things work in general . Pride in ownership is what is needed . We own our democracy and many are not doing their part . proper discourse and compromise is what will protect us and move the nation forward . don't hate ! participate !
5
I believe it was James Roosevelt (FDR’s son) that said the great thing is when you are the President’s son, everyone wants to give you a job.
4
retired federal attorney F/71
Always all ways listen to those who have walked-the-walk in these matters. Lawrence O'Donnell on MSNBC reminded all with a big smile on his face last night about the portrait of our "founders." From his days working as a senior Senate staffer:
White + male + educated + affluent.
He also reminded us that the founders intended for the House to be the rabble, elected by the people, while the Senate was by appointment only. Too important in our first-version of checks-and-balances among Congress + Judiciary + Executive branches of government to be left to being messed up by voters choosing Senators.
I repeat my mantra from 2016: Mitch is this country's Puppet Master while the man in The White House is his genuinely mentally ill--unhinged-in-every-way--puppet. Who can say that our "founding fathers" would disagree with this power arrangement?
No small irony that Harvey Weinstein's trial proceeds toward his life sentence arriving soon in a Manhattan courtroom.
Likely images and outcomes that will be repeated with the Trump Clan in the same or a nearby state courtroom after the man is out of his hiding place at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue and in the hands of NY State's very capable Attorney General.
Surely everybody knows that our states have definitions of crimes that often match verbatim those in federal statutes? Likely financial crimes prosecuted under state, not federal, law. No pardons for any in Blue NY State.
4
"The jury had each formed a different view
Long before the indictment was read,
And they all spoke at once, so that none of them knew
One word which the others had said."
--Lewis Carroll, THE HUNTING OF THE SNARK
9
Democracy seems to already be lost. One only needs to look into the UNITED republican senate majority. These, unlike those interviewed in this article, are not ignorant Americans with questionable IQs. They are well aware of the facts and have consciously made the choice to not "do the right thing". This is the most disturbing realization from these hearings. Anything goes now. In the unlikely case that we can have fair elections with no outside interference, Trump will loose. He will however not accept this loss and will rely on the republican senate majority.
2
Like most if not all Times political surveys they chose a pool of amazingly ignorant subjects. Add to this that the survey pool is composed of volunteers badly in need of education if not a life.
Productive people do not volunteer to undergo surveys.
Nearly every Republican, here, and around the world when engaged will invariably begin to spout nonsense. As to a single person they are not only ignorant but the contours of their information exactly match disreputable vendors, Limbaugh, Tucker and the usual suspects.
3
This is what has happened since FoxNews ENTERTAINMENT channel began spreading false information, so that a good chunk of our population are woefully ignorant of facts. (That's right; FoxNews is an entertainment network, not a news channel). Last night, I noticed that they muted the Senate when a Democrat was speaking, so that their host could control the flow of information. When a Republican Senator spoke, it was loud and clear. There are not 2 sides to every issue. There are not 2 sets of facts. Reputable sources need to keep pounding indisputable facts, and if they are wrong, allow to be sued in court. That would effectively end FoxNews.
2
The biggest issue with Trump and today's Republican party is the dumbing down of political discourse in this country, with so many people just repeating nonsense as if they thought of it themselves and therefore it must be true, facts notwithstanding. Trump is just a symptom of what so many millions of not the best of us think and feel on a daily basis. We are become the ostrich with our head in the sand as the best way to solve problems.
What's going on today used to be known as "faction" which is groups vying for power without regard to ethics or any good sense for the country. I do not fault both sides equally; one side started it because it works, and the other side got caught flat-footed.
2
Either we're a nation of laws or we're not. Simple as that. A President whose business modus operandi is to make self-serving deals via any means including extortion, who won't (can't!) testify, and who orders underlings to ignore subpoenas, is a menace to this nation. Shame on any Senator who fails to bring Trump to account.
3
It is apparent, at least to me, that those against Trump's impeachment are far less knowledgeable about the facts vs those interviewed who are in favor of his impeachment. I am not sure if Trump supporters are simply less educated about not only this case but also politics, history and the law or if these were the people selected on purpose. I believe the articles of impeachment are just the tip of the proverbial iceberg but I have to agree with the comment suggesting the result of an 8th grade history test would be valuable. Your poll and interview suggests something far more serious and that is our long forgotten public school system is failing our children when the adults they become (particularly those anti-impeachment) not only have don't understand this process but also can't formulate an argument to defend their position except with emotional, subjective remarks. And last, if we educated children to think critically and placed a higher value on that over test scores and multiple choice then maybe more people would question the source of their news and those who publish it and we wouldn't be in this mess. So to everyone who doesn't have children or grandchildren of school age, myself included, consider the value in educated the children of this country when you vote in November. They one day become adults.
3
@Anonymouse no one should be permitted to vote in US elections until they obtain a score of 90 or better on the citizen/civics test required of all 'naturalized' Americans
1
It is apparent, at least to me, that those against Trump's impeachment are far less knowledgeable about the facts vs those interviewed who are in favor of his impeachment. I am not sure if Trump supporters are simply less educated about not only this case but also politics, history and the law or if these were the people selected on purpose. I believe the articles of impeachment are just the tip of the proverbial iceberg but I have to agree with the comment suggesting the result of an 8th grade history test would be valuable. Your poll and interview suggests something far more serious and that is our long forgotten public school system is failing our children when the adults they become (particularly those anti-impeachment) not only have don't understand this process but also can't formulate an argument to defend their position except with emotional, subjective remarks. And last, if we educated children to think critically and placed a higher value on that over test scores and multiple choice then maybe more people would question the source of their news and those who publish it and we wouldn't be in this mess. So to everyone who doesn't have children or grandchildren of school age, myself included, consider the value in educated the children of this country when you vote in November. They one day become adults.
The evidence is real and convincing. The public confusion is sad and dangerous at the same time. Democracy is based on majority rule. This is good and bad depending on whether or not you are in the majority. The 53 Republican Senators have the power to save or ruin our democracy at this critical juncture but they do not see it that way. The Republicans are following their simple strategy which Is Deny, Discredit , Distract.
It is astonishing how millions of people can take the same information and process it so differently. But the Republican Senators know better. What a lack of moral courage and basic integrity.
3
I'm an out of work, via hospital employee cuts, 65 yr. old male, who is probably only going to find an entry level job to continue in this great jobs renaissance.
Thankfully, my time at home allows me to follow these proceedings.
It's unfortunate so many people in this great economy have to work 2 or more jobs to sustain their families, as they have no time to listen to, or contemplate, the nuances of these impeachment proceedings.
It seems to me, the low information status of so many respondents is firmly based on their lack of time to follow the proceedings.
Of course, for many this low interest in politics dates back years, to the time they jumped on the low wage treadmill that keeps their minds away from intellectual engagement.
5
I agree that the evidence of Trump's wrongdoing in Ukraine is very strong, but it is incomplete due to facts prevented from being revealed as well as the perversion of power exercised by Moscow Mitch and his fellow Republican senators. This situation is a travesty of honor and justice.
6
We have seen such a decline in the state of our country--from the National Parks opened for corporations to pillage all the way to the erosion of the very "melting pot" ideals we were so proud of for so long.
But all of that aside, regardless of how you feel or what you believe, the Law is what matters. Subpoenas were ignored and he refused-REFUSED-to give documents to Congress. He withheld money that he has no jurisdiction or control over, money Congress voted to give to a foreign country. These are facts, facts that he and his attorneys do not refute--instead they are trying to refute the law, which we all know is not how this works.
Any Senator that votes to acquit breaks their oath to uphold the constitution absolutely and should never again be trusted or allowed to stand guard on our democracy.
11
A few years ago Former Justices Souter and O'Connor (when she was in better health) gave a presentation at our local theater discussing the role of civics in our democracy. They called out what is obvious but largely unspoken: we are failing miserably at teaching civics. Souter once said that our Constitution represents “a value system about how to use power and distribute it and limit it, and a value system that reflects a shared conception of human worth. That value system is the counterpoise to the divisive tendencies that are so strong. Civic ignorance is the defeat of that value system.”
3
I’m reminded of “Jaywalking,” Jay Leno’s Tonight Show routine asking people on the street extremely no brainer questions such as “What does Congress do?” or “Who is Vice President?” and the respondents indeed proved to have no brains.
Those were, of course, extreme cases, but this so called survey is discouraging, although no huge surprise. This is NOT COMPLICATED. Anyone with a reasonable education and a modicum of desire to follow the news can grasp what Trump did.
Perhaps what is worse is that some who may even understand the issue don’t bother to care.
6
We have social media to thank for our divisiveness. Have an opinion? Here are 50 links to accounts and pages to reinforce it -- whether it be through anecdotal "evidence" or selective (or, in the case of Donald, "alternative") facts. Confirmation bias has replaced critical thought -- on both sides of the aisle. That, above all else, is terrifying.
4
From this article it seems apparent that those who readily admit to not really knowing the facts are more than willing to give Trump the benefit of the doubt. How can you have a valid opinion on something if you don't even know the name of the country involved? That is why it's so important to hear ALL the evidence , something the Senate is determined not to do. And that makes this proceeding a farce.
5
The impeachment is a necessary exercise in the workings of our republic. I believe that the President is guilty, if guilty he must be removed from office. I know that is not going to happen. Unfortunately our country is so partisan that a fair trial will only occur on November 3rd when the American people will decide who our next president will be and even that verdict might be skewed by the electoral college.
Unfortunately, too many Americans got used to Trump’s juvenile antics. Furthermore, they are told by right wing media that there is no case against Trump without even trying to understand the issue. What many of the 81 here are saying are just repeated right wing talking points, word for word.
2
I was watching a multi-part documentary about New York city. It originally aired on PBS about 23 years ago. In the 3rd installment of the documentary, they interviewed a fairly young real-estate developer named Donald Trump about building on island of Manhattan. He spoke about how Manhattan was great to build on because of the granite bedrock of the island, that once you poured the foundations, the building was solid. The interviewee sounded interesting and knowledgeable concerning his topic. The segment lasted a little over a minute.
The funny thing is, this young real-estate developer sounded totally coherent and normal.
Juxtapose that to now, and trump sounds like he is insane. I really think he has Alzheimer's or some other form of dementia and that is being kept from the voters.
Which would really explain the mess that trump is in now.
3
Congress reflects the people. Everyone has long since made up their minds. Either you want the president removed or you don’t. The facts, the law, the Constitution, are merely distractions and are irrelevant. Everyone’s mind was made up in 2016 and
nothing is ever going to change it. When you acknowledge this reality, the entire impeachment procedure is actually hilarious. Public officials acting so pompous and serious, as if anything they had to say mattered.
We are frozen in our partisan divides. We don’t think critically or with objectivity. Our cable news networks of choice tell us what to think, and we gleefully follow their instructions, which keeps their corporate profits high.
Yet each side is blind to this and professes to follow the higher ground.
We deserve exactly what we get.
2
"As one independent voter from Ohio put it, “maybe they should ask the people what they should do. It should be our vote.”"
Really? As the entire impeachment is over Trump's attempt to sway the electorate to distort the people's perception about an opponent. I guess the participant is too young to remember The Plumbers or the Canuck Letter. Consent of the governed? Why bother when deception works just as well.
Trump ought to be removed from office for what he attempted - any Democratic president would already be gone for the same fact pattern. An 'unelectable on his own' President Pence should finish out the term. The GOP will never let that happen and will find a way to voting to 'acquit' Donald Trump.
I sure hope that many of the 94 million who cast no ballot in the 2016 election are noting the price for their indifference and pledging to never let it occur again.
3
Mr. Trump will not be convicted, whether he's guilty or not, because impeachment is political, not legal, and the Republicans control the Senate. Similarly, when the tables were turned, Bill Clinton was not convicted, even though he was guilty as, pardon the expression, sin.
Given that the verdict is foreordained, the question is, I suppose, should the Democratic House have passed articles of impeachment. The answer is clearly no. President Trump will face the voters soon enough, and the current circus is preventing Congress from doing its day job: addressing the issues of the day, including immigration, military action in places like the middle east and Afghanistan, and trade policy.
1
@Alex (1) you might at least distinguish Clinton's crime--lying under oath re a personal matter with no consequence to the country --versus Trump's crimes --illegally withholding congressionally approved funds to extort behavior from a foreign government for his personal political advantage. (2) as to Congressional inaction on other matters, remind me of what "Red" McConnell brings to the Senate floor save approval of conservative nominees to pack the Federal judiciary.
It is both heartbreaking and terrifying to hear the opinions of those who believe there isn't sufficient evidence against trump. To begin with, it must have taken immense courage for the whistle blower to come forward and reveal the situation. We're talking here about a career political aides who was willing to put his or her career on the line for their concerns. And from there it goes.Republicans and trump in particular project their misdeeds and crimes onto others as a way of tricking their consciences into believing their lies. When trump rants about a conspiracy, the real conspiracy revolves around him and the bullying threats, as well the morally bankrupt lust for power at any cost by those of the republican party. republicans know if they convict trump it puts them out of power and trump will go out of his way to come after them for revenge. It's just how he is. So why would they do that? The only thing is, united we stand, divided we fall, but they are of weak morals and have chosen to take the easy way. We're sunk, I'm afraid.
1
I hope everyone who can is watching the presentations being made today. There's no hysteria, no hatred, no partisanship. The retired policeman would recognise the format, anyone who had ever had jury duty would recognise facts, not opinions. But it's not an easy, sound-bite sort of attention that our fellow citizens are being asked to provide. This is not a 30 second ad between two more 30 second ads. This is the most serious thing that's going to happen to them outside their own families and their own ambitions. Attention must be paid.
2
The more interviews I read, the greater anxiety I have. May God help us; our system of secondary education is failing us. Sent from Cameroon.
1
Congress reflects the people. Everyone has long since made up their minds. Either you want the president removed or you don’t. The facts, the law, the Constitution, are merely distractions and are irrelevant. Everyone’s mind was made up in 2016 and
nothing is ever going to change it. When you acknowledge this reality, the entire impeachment procedure is actually hilarious. Public officials acting so pompous and serious, as if anything they had to say mattered.
We are frozen in our partisan divides. We don’t think critically or with objectivity. Our cable news networks of choice tell us what to think, and we gleefully follow their instructions, which keeps their corporate profits high.
Yet each side is blind to this and professes to follow the higher ground.
We deserve exactly what we get.
Trump's crimes were not against "democracy" as Senator Schumer said today, but instead were a case of extortion of a foreign ally whom we courted under previous administrations. But it was also a favor to a former enemy against whom we fought a cold war for many decades. The ally was the Ukraine, a former part of the USSR, and the enemy was Putin's Russia. The ally would be denied defensive weapons paid for by the US unless it cooperated in two fraudulent scams, both baseless, but with the side effect of helping Trump's 2020 presidential hopes. One was to investigate Biden's son who worked in the Ukraine for several years for phony claims of misconduct. The other was to pretend that the Ukraine, not Putin's Russia, was behind the disinformation on Facebook and talk radio during the 2016 presidential election.
In my view, Biden's appointed to the board of Burisma Holdings Ltd was a case of nepotism, pure and simple. Apparently, this was not against any laws and Biden broke no laws during the time he collected a salary of $50K per month. However, Trump's crimes were more sinister, involving the US in dirty politics abroad and clearly did not involve the best interests of the US at all.
I fail utterly to see how anyone cannot understand that Trump is a clear and present danger to the well being of the country. He could have been impeached for so many other reasons. Why the Dems did not pursue some of his other abuses or impeach his Atty General, Barr, boggles the mind.
1
What many Americans are missing is that Trump’s defense doesn’t at all dispute any of the 17 witness testimonies. None is being questioned. They just ignore the evidence, minimize its significance and concentrate on process, how unfair it was, and cry fault that Trump is a victim.
If those witnesses all told the truth under oath, this case is as clear as it can get. Want to dispute it? Call Mulvaney, Pompeo, Bolden and Duffy to testify. It is clear to everyone that they would support any and all of previous testimonies. Thats where the obstruction and cover up comes.
1
Impeachment is a process of both Houses on the Hill. It is the business of elected representatives UNIQUELY.
The line between political objectivity and the threat to the democratic process, is a fine one. At least in the USA it will be decided by the elected members of House and Senate - it cannot be frustrated by the President.
In the UK, recently, our Parliament and democratic process was was obstructed (ie prorogued) by the will of the Prime Minister alone - even the Queen was powerless to stop this dictatorial act by Johnson. Only our Supreme Court was able, after very able prosecution, to restore Parliament. The case rested on whether or not the prorogation was a 'purely political act' or, the democratic process itself (ie an Act of Parliament, and thus 'justiciable by the Court). The Court found for the latter. [see Lady Hale's judgement].
I think this judgement could well inform your lay people, in the matter of this Impeachment.
The House has a fine lady Speaker - Pelosi, as was our former Speaker Bercow, much to be admired.
I lean left of center on most issues and I'm no fan of the reality TV star 'president.' I do feel strongly that the most powerful message to send is to vote him out in November rather than removing him via the impeachment trial.
The problem with that logic however, is this administration and their Republican Congressional lap dogs have done nothing to protect our election from foreign tampering. The Russians have had four more years now to further perfect their election interference tactics and strategy. My fear is that the interference tactics we will see this election will make 2016 look like child's play.
1
Many of the reasons to find him guilty do not rise above a reason to not vote from him and are not included in the charges for that reason. Mr Trump is a very frustrating man but we cannot let frustration of his name calling, bullying and other shortcomings that are leading many of the individuals to say he should be found guilty. To them I say vote him out, support your candidate, get others to help but don't use impeachment that will lead to future misuses of a very serious tactic.
2
@JM "Many of the reasons to find him guilty do not rise above a reason to not vote from him" It is depressing beyond belief that this is your assessment of the facts of the case.
1
Thanks for the thoroughly depressing glimpse at my fellow citizens.
It's not "complicated". Congress put close to $400 million into bills, which Trump signed into law, to help Ukraine fend off a continuing assault on its sovereignty by Russia. An existing statute forbids the Executive Branch from withholding such aid without explaining why to Congress. Without explaining it to Congress, Trump personally ordered aides in his administration to freeze the Ukraine aid, shortly after his "perfect call" to the new Ukrainian president, during which he repeatedly asked that president to start an investigation into former Vice-president Joe Biden's work implementing US foreign policy with regard to Ukrainian corruption, and into Biden's son's service on the board of directors of a Ukrainian natural-gas corporation. To date, there is no evidence that either Biden was guilty of any misconduct. The Trump administration only relented and released the Ukraine aid after a national-security official filed a formal whistleblower complaint and the scheme became public knowledge. Numerous administration officials corroborated the scheme and provided a great deal of detail, but the president personally ordered key aides not to testify in the House investigation and refused to provide requested documents.
Okay, that's a long paragraph, but it's hardly a complicated story.
Americans are disturbingly ignorant, distracted, and vulnerable to propaganda, conservatives overwhelmingly so.
2
The Ukraine is an an alliance at war with the Russians. We support the Ukraines, it is in our national security interests. trump broke the law and committed a crime asking for a favor while withholding funds appropriated by a bi-partisan support in Congress. The republicans in Congress think it is ok to break the law and have chosen trump and party over Country and Constitution.
Want to know the truth, call your republican Senators and tell them that America deserves to hear from witnesses and see documents related to what amounts to obstruction and a cover up in the Senate trial.
This is not only about trump, this is about 200 + years of our Constitution and the separation of powers, if the Senate does not do its' job, then this could be the end of our Republic as we have known it and the end of Congress and its' powers to legislate.
1
The way you bring America back together is you vote out people like Lindsey Graham and Mitch McConnell. Merrick Garland fiasco emboldened both men. Then Trump went to a foreign government and held up money in exchange for a personal favor. He solicited a bribe. And now Lindsey and Mitch want to bury that solicited bribe. It's really something to watch -- if only it were another place, not the country I love. To me, the only solution was impeachment and removal.
1
Arguments require facts; yet the statements from all of the people interviewed were essentially devoid of facts to back their opinions. Grasping the basics is not enough if our Republic is going to survive.
1
Excellent example of Americans not knowing or wanting to know the facts and coming to the conclusion Trump is innocent. Exactly what the GOP is counting on.
Never thought Bush/Cheney would get re-elected and this time I know as it stands Trump will get a 2nd term.
The Neanderthal Electoral College along with Russia's help will tip the scale even though Trump will lose the popular vote by even more than 3 million this time.
2
This article points out everything that is wrong which be summed up in two words: Ignorance and apathy. This trial has huge implications for our country and Democracy and people largely unaware of that. Just responding to emotion and partisan soundbites. That is how this man got elected in the first place and the reason we may fail to get rid of him now.
1
I am neither a republican nor a democrat. By looking at this particular case, you can tell there was an intention to use his office to hold the funds to get dirt on his political rival. However when the whistle blown out, the administration released the funds. 2 sides to this.
1. Can you impeach someone for intending to abuse his office? Don't know...seems a bit light weight.
2. If he has done this intentionally in this particular case and defending what he did and given all the other things that he has done, what else is he hiding or still doing to win 2020...Now that's the scary part...
Either way, he is going to use this to create sympathy in 2020...We as Americans are emotional and seems to have a liking for "Victims"
@Seetha go read Federalist 65
The best argument I've heard for impeachment was along the lines of, if we let this go, what precedent does it set? It would essentially give the President free reign to use Congressionally approved foreign aid as a leverage tool to get whatever that President personally wants. This not only includes political favors, like Trump's abuse of power, but anything that benefits the President and his friends and family. That would destroy democracy and lead to a corrupt dictatorship that nobody wants. Unfortunately, the Republicans can only see the benefits directly in front of them, and refuse to focus on the historical implications of their irresponsible behavior.
945
@JG
“The best argument I've heard for impeachment was along the lines of, if we let this go, what precedent does it set? ....That would destroy democracy and lead to a corrupt dictatorship that nobody wants”
If that’s the best argument I think we should fold. The majority of Americans don’t feel that democracy is at stake. The hysteria tactic isn’t working.
10
@JG Yes, it's called "taxation without representation." You nailed it.
19
@JG
That's what Joe Biden did as vice President. He's on video stating he threatened to withhold ~$1B in aid unless Ukraine fired its top prosecutor who was investigating Burisma Holdings among others. Biden's son, really not qualified, was already pulling down $50,000/month as a Burisma board member. President Obama said there was no conflict of interest. Perhaps there wasn't. Maybe there was.
5
A prime example of why I've always been fearful of being tried by a "jury of my peers." People are almost always swayed more by emotions than they are facts, and also tend to march in step with their tribe, or to follow what they perceive as their own interest.
The most profitable thing I ever learned in poker was that people tend to see what they want to see.
21
@Michael Adcox How brilliant. How much common sense. You just said all that I have felt all along, about the 'jury of peers' thing.
1
The reason the Republicans/conservatives whose observations are part and parcel of this piece express the views they express is because largely, their conduit to "news" is Fox News, which is utterly, irredeemably biased and serving corporate masters in order to trick its viewers into believing what those masters find convenient for the public (or their gullible segment of the public) to believe. In the service of that bias, Fox News promulgates distortions of fact and outright falsehoods as its stock-in-trade. The poor souls who suggest the view that Trump did nothing impeachable absorb the garbage spewed by Fox News and it forms the foundation of their view of reality, which, of course, is molded to conform to the wishes and agenda of the puppet masters of Fox News. Therein lies the threat to our democracy.
64
@JK
Yep. They are the greatest threat we face. They have divided this country where we can’t even agree on substance. They constantly lie for this administration, work in the administration which is a giant breech if public trust, and feed the administration talking points in circular fashion.
Take the house, take the senate. Take out Fox News.
2
@JK This doesn't apply to all. As a republican myself, I do not listen to Fox News. In fact I receive most of my news from NYTimes and the Washington Post.
@JK
What I don't understand is the commenters who comment on the NYTimes columns when it's obvious that they don't actually READ it!
Maybe they could be a little more informed if they actually READ this paper instead of just commenting here, regurgitating the FOX talking points.
1
What Americans THINK?
Americans' thoughts on politics are overwhelmingly a product of what media-trough(s) they feed at.
Where do we get our facts and the spin put on them?
26
The case against Trump: we don't like him so we're impeaching him. Abuse of power? Doesn't every President and politician do that - if they can? Why are we giving money to Ukraine in the first place? And how was Joe Biden's recently rehabbed son making so much money there? Family business?
6
@DeKay The Ukraine is an an alliance at war with the Russians. We support the Ukraines, it is in our national security interests. trump broke the law and committed a crime asking for a favor while withholding funds appropriated by a bi-partisan support in Congress. The republicans in Congress think it is ok to break the law and have chosen trump and party over Country and Constitution.
Want to know the truth, call your republican Senators and tell them that America deserves to hear from witnesses and see documents related to what amounts is obstruction and a cover up.
1
@DeKay - Fortunately, right this minute, you can have your questions answered, just by turning on C-Span. There are a great number of people who are going to a great deal of trouble to make sure you know what can be known. Why not check it out?
2
Here's a suggestion: could you please go back to all the people quoted here, administer an eighth-grade level US government test; and then publish the results next to their names? I think that would be very interesting.
156
@M Craig...not sure if we're of the same political philosophy, but it doesn't matter—I wholeheartedly agree, and for the same motives, I'm sure. Even further, it would be equally as telling to know what percentage of likely voters cannot even name the 3 branches of the federal government. Perhaps some light shed on the last 4 decades of decay...
13
@kstew Agreed. When I was a public school student in Southern California, many years ago, one was required to pass a US government/Constitution test to graduate from junior high and go on to high school. I’d love to see this requirement be mandated in all 50 states. I’d also be delighted if people understood that although quid pro quo’s are how business is done between nations, the « pro quo » better be in the national interest, and not just in the personal political interest of the President, or we have a serious abuse of power on our hands.
11
@M Craig...and I would say we have a serious abuse of power on our hands.
6
It baffles me to see so many people that apparently have no clue to what the allegations are, nor the evidence that's been submitted.
There are plenty of sources available to find this information.
I can understand having a preconceived opinion on the matter, but not this level ignorance.
Wake up people!
59
Interesting cross section of responses, but what grabbed me was the photograph: such a metaphor for what's going on. The capital is turned upside down. Thanks for trying to make sense of this situation.. I've faith in our constitution. I just keep concluding that Trump was absolutely correct when he said he could get away with anything.
12
@Ellen
Probably the only true statement that has ever come out of his mouth.
1
I dated a Canadian years ago. I should have married him. I could be in Canada now.
121
@JanTG . not a competition, but you definitely win.
2
@JanTG : I find myself often thinking back to a dear Canadian friend from college, and on the one hand hoping that his marriage is intact (he was a lovely guy, and I want him to be happy) and on the other wondering whether he is mid-life unattached ...
3
@JanTG
If you were you'd still be obsessed and beyond upset at what's going on in the US - to witness a people with such a proud history succumb to the whims of a spoiled boy is beyond depressing. And, on top of that, we have a real winter up here, too.
9
Looks like the media has a credibility problem and lacks the capacity to actually inform people of facts that we agree are actually facts or as near to it as possible.
10
@Mathias
When we have been told that our government, our schools, our media are the problem and not to be trusted for years now what can you expect.
Our public schools have done a terrible job educating the public about the way government runs, who is responsible and what effect specific policies have on their lives.
Trump has done a great job of playing the victim and it's reflected in the comments that Democrats hate Donald. It's not hate. It's protecting and defending the constitution.
For those Americans who choose not to engage, they should keep it up and not vote. But for those who are invested in the way the government treats people, they all should vote.
You can't remain ignorant and then proudly cast your vote for a fictional character.
36
@Occupy Government
Americans have never really believed in education. They will pay for a new athletic field but buy books, better lab equipment. How many kids have to take civics? The kids get what the community wants, nothing more. I remember arguing with my aunt who like Adlai Stevenson, that Americans would never elect an intellectual.
@Occupy Government As a substitute (and for one year music) teacher in the Oakland Public Schools, and product of a Connecticut public school system, I would argue that it's not so much (or only) the quality of education--at least here in the Bay Area--as the wider cultural atmosphere, including the soundbite-twitter mentality, that creates an electorate that spends more time on celebrity gossip stories than serious news stories. Plus the current conservative-American backlash and Fox News and ilk.
You can manage to pass all your classes and graduate but completely jettison that scholarly life once you reach voting age. And of course even high school dropouts must be allowed to vote.
The problem lies more with the structure of media, including the TV news, and not just Fox.
But, again, Fox needs to go, though I don't know how.
1
Making a phone call with half a dozen people listening in doesn't even begin to rise to the level of an impeachable offense. Bill Clinton did far worse and he wasn't removed from office.
4
@Henry Case: describing what Trump did as "making a phone call" is like describing punching somebody as "making a fist."
@Henry Case
If that what this looks like, a phone call with people listening in, then there is a lot of information to be absorbed. A phone call where the most powerful person in the world holds aid, money that legally belongs to that leader and country in the middle of a war, for his personal gain, is most definitely such an offense. It is illegal (law is clear here that Congress decides and administers) and certainly a breach of our trust as citizens.
@Henry Case - The $391 million dollars withheld was the extortion problem. The phone call was evidence that Trump explicitly told the Ukraine President he would NOT be getting the money unless he got on TV and pretended to investigate Hunter Biden and investigate his own country for hacking Hillary's emails and spreading lies about Hillary on Facebook, etc. in the 2016 election. No, the phone call was not the problem, it was the evidence of a much bigger extortion and abuse of presidential power according to the US Constitution.
Many people are getting opinions from friends, facebook and family and they substitute that for news. When did people start thinking having an opinion makes themselves knowledgable? Maybe when the press began feeding people colorful versions of a story for entertainment followed by a heavy helping of the newspapers' opinions. Read your favorite columnist to digest the news? Yep, hate to say it but the newspapers, and (most of all) T.V. reporting is all trash.
6
if our govie spent an equal amount of time and effort on good ideas and compromise,
(passing bills) as they do on fighting each other this country would be so far ahead, we wouldn't be doing this to each other/ourselves.
4
@e
Make sure you send this in emergency telegram form directly to Mitch McConnell and ask why he hasn't brought over 400 bills passed in the House with bipartisan support to the floor of the senate. The bills have been passed. The Republicans in the Senate under the direction of McConnell are the ineffective party.
1
@e - True, but who is printing/broadcasting the most lies and twisted facts with their own spin? What Senator said his mission was to make Obama a 1 term president and blocked every bill from Dem. side and blocked supreme court and lower appointments until his party got in power. Senate has approved more court appointments in 3 years for trump than they did in 8 years for Obama. Their are over 400 bills on Senate leaders desk that have never been even put up to a vote. Fair?
Wow. Really makes you appreciate the nice New York Times / Washington Post bubble we have here. Well, the NY Times, anyway. Please forgive me, for I always go right to the "reader's picks" because they almost always reflect my views. I generally ignore the ones that don't. It's fun, and it's easy!
Life is similarly fun and easy in the Breitbart/RushBo/FOX universe. Is it a cognitive dissonance to be able to admit both worlds have truths unto themselves, and to the denizens of each, their truth is the only valid one?
6
@Barbyr Yeah, I'm struck by that too. There is so much more nuance to the positions when they come out of the mouths of one's peers, whether you agree or (vehemently) disagree. "If you can think of some way to bring America back together, I would pat you on the back and give you an award." Past "cynical" and well into "resigned."
Mitch McConnell and his Republican cohorts have brought shame to themselves, the Senate, and most sadly, to the nation. As a Canadian, I am seeing conservatives employing the same kind of techniques...pitting one segment of society against the other...stoking fear and anger to deflect from their own inability to deal with issues and to hold power...and using - constantly - the Big Lie approach drawn from Goebbels playbook. As much as I feel bad for America, I feel afraid for my own province and country.
17
Wow.
Remarkable how easily people forget what the Cold War was, while they cower in terror every time the word 'socialism' is invoked.
Duck and cover!
9
@ubique
These people don't know what duck and cover is referencing. Courtesy of the purposeful dumbing-down of America.
There is no written document anywhere in the world that can prevent a country from slipping away from democracy if its citizenry has failed to keep itself informed well enough to make the right decisions. America is an exceptional country because it got it's framework the "most right" of all the nations. But being exceptional cannot make it an exception to the above rule that applies to all countries sooner or later. We are now at this point. The only remedy moving forward is to arm ourselves with uncorrupted knowledge of facts, unwavering commitment to reforming a just society and the personal sacrifices necessary to resurrect the nation. Nothing less will do.
24
Here is what I don't understand.
In holding up the aid, Trump arrogated power to himself that belongs exclusively to congress. One would think that EVERY senator would be outraged by this.
One would think that for Rubio, Cruz, Romney and Graham they would be quietly thinking to themselves that it was payback time baby.
But no. They've all made the calculation that Trump's removal will not improve their re-election chances.
28
@Mike Add to that list Mitt Romney, Susan Collins and Cory Gardner. Mitt Romney is especially saddening, considering he should be safe from worries about re-election... who knows, maybe he's worried about being primaried too.
@Mike
What power did he arrogate? Please explain...
1
In reading comments of people around the country regarding how they feel about the impeachment trial, it is painfully obvious that there is a deficit of what many Americans know and understand about the impeachment process and trial. It saddens me to realize the lack of awareness and sophistication is so stark.
30
@Marion Mack
They also believed :
-Mexico would pay for The Wall.
-Trump is a " businessman".
-Trump would " Drain The swamp".
-" Trade wars are easy ".
-P.T. Barnum comes to mind .
@Marion Mack I might add that these comments come from those who explicitly chose to be interviewed. Can you imagine if random folks on the street were asked about this trial? I am a public school history teacher who has also taught civics and can attest to the apathy too many teens have towards government and our ideas of democracy.
@Marion Mack
Keep in mind the quotes are from a mere 81 people who had responded to an online survey stating they would be willing to be interviewed. So this may not be representative of the general public's knowledge. I do think though that a fair number of people pretty much tuned out other than to headlines when the House began the ad hoc impeachment process w/o a vote and drug it out. Then, after the vote and declaring the national importance of their findings, they didn't send the articles of impeachment to the Senate for weeks. Agree or not, the process took on a strong partisan and ho hum cast.
It truly bears asking the question about this article, as our President's legal team did yesterday of the entire proceedings: "Why are we here?"
What on earth is the validity of the comments of 81 people, regardless how how demographically diverse they may be? It's like taking a picture of the Brooklyn Bridge, then showing it around as, "Look. Here's the Brooklyn Bridge.
9
It's pretty obvious that those who favor impeachment get it and those that don't just think it's about not liking Trump. I have yet to hear a cogent argument in favor of his actions. Instead they either don't understand the gravity of what he did or don't believe he did it, or just don't know the issues.
36
I am 57, so I remember Nixon, Clinton, and now this. I am also a controls / dynamical systems engineer. I don't have the space to explain things like limit cycles or asymptotic behavior, but, when seen through that lens (and having 45+ years of memories), it is easy to see and summarize Washington politics in the past 40 years during which we've had a steadily increasing partisanship which cycles like this:
1. The GOP policies can't survive long-term, so they have to be obstructionist or go negative to retain those policies and elected positions.
2. The Democrats complain, don't initially go negative, and lose elections.
3. When the GOP fumbles, the Democrats get elected... but then they fumble giving the ball back to the GOP.
4. The Democrats realize that their high road attitudes and abstract policy messages aren't working for elections, so they begin to realize that they need to use GOP methods...
5. ... so the GOP just goes more negative and obstructionist, which ....
6. ... leads to the Democrats to go more negative and obstructionist, which... (repeat Steps 5 and 6 ad infinitum).
This will not stop until 2 things happen:
1. Democrats need to learn to speak "fly-over country" and identify and empathize with the people living in red states.
2. The next Democratic President needs to be truly bipartisan including sacrificing, short term, progressive policies.
The onus is on the DEMs because most GOPers won't change what works for them: negativity and obstruction.
11
@VJR - I agree with your analysis, I don't hold much hope for Democrats national political primaries as they seem to be too much about debates and the moderators are asking 'Gotcha' questions that will produce a fight. They all seem to think this is a reality TV show intead of picking the best leader for our country. BTW I am an engineer with 50+ years experience so I appreciate your control systems analysis.
2
It has be stated ad nauseam that an impeachment trial is political and doesn’t have to abide the conventions of a criminal trial, but ignoring the rules of procedure and evidence will undermine the veracity of the process and outcome. Here, the Democrats have a big problem— they have no statutory crime to justify impeachment. Granted, they don’t need one because an impeachment doesn’t require it, but by pushing forward they are setting a precedent that significantly lowers the bar for impeachment and makes the whole process too arbitrarily political. It could be interpreted as a direct interference in the elections process and a marginalization on the power of the American people to elect a president. It seems that the Democrats have a big hill to climb and have too little time to do so.
3
I couldn't help but notice that the quotes from Trump supporters were uniformly short and absolutist in nature ("ridiculous", "no case", etc.).
By contrast, almost all the quotes from those who are supportive of (or conflicted about) impeachment are nuanced, thoughtful and ruminative - reflecting the complexity of this crucial crossroads in our representative government.
Which side of this stark contrast do we want to see prevail in our Body Politic?
14
@Dave
I observed the same. Many, or most, of the Republicans quoted were dismissive (without further justification) or said the matter was too complicated, too confusing, they couldn't remember the details, etc. This is a sample of only 81 people (and there is the possibility of selective editing, though I don't think that's the case here) but God help us if Republicans use this methodology to form their political views: I'll go with whatever burns the fewest brain cells.
2
Most of the players are sticking to the script, and that is a real shame since the consequences of the Senate's action are so important. One thing that this president doesn't need is another slogan -no quid pro quo, I was acquitted, no impeachment (it seems that he doesn't understand that yes, he has been impeached,) etc. - to carry into the next election. Is the Senate really going to give him a pass to encourage foreign involvement in the next election? If no one stands up to him on the Republican side he will consider it a win and feel more than ever that he can do whatever he wants. Where are Romney, Collins, Rubio, Murkowski, and how can they possibly believe Mr. Trump's behavior should go unchecked, without even a slap on the wrist by their party. And, how can the American public, and the people interviewed for your article, be expected to deeply understand what is going on in the Senate when an entire GOP is turning its back on the danger to our democracy and seems to be unwilling to stand up for a vote that will prevent further corruption of our elections. The Senate is made up of people who know better. If they appear to be willing to ignore the facts, how can anyone fault the general public for doing the same.
3
This is distressing but not surprising. Perhaps it is just the people in your sample, but the conservatives seem to not know what the accusations are, while the Democrats understand them perfectly. The people who are against the impeachment because "Trump didn't do anything" are the same ones who have no idea what the facts are. Whether it is willful ignorance or too much Fox News, the Republicans have successfully gotten their base to sign onto the idea that there's nothing to the charges, even though we had weeks of hearings with substantial evidence that Trump did exactly what he is charged with. I can respect people who think impeachment isn't warranted because it won't result in Trump's removal, or because it will divide the country or distract from other problems, but opposing impeachment because "Trump didn't do anything" shows a disconnect with reality.
16
In this new age of social media and Russia interference in our elections I feel this is precedent setting. If we do not find this president guilty for trying to 'hire' or extort a foreign government to influence our election then we set a precedent that this is okay behavior and our laws/constitution make this behavior illegal. I don't see that we have much choice but to go forward with a trial and be diligent in either finding him guilty or innocent then acting by the law. Otherwise change the law. If he's guilty convict to the fullest extent of the law.
2
The failure of the impeachment hearings can be attributed to it's lack of gravity. While polarization has predetermined the fact that the House would pass the an impeachment resolution, it has also determined the Senate will not convict. The end is known.
There is a sense of cognitive dissonance when watching the Senate hearings. For all the forced decorum, it lacks gravity. Why is that? I can't help but think of these same individuals and their behavior during the Kavanaugh hearing: yelling, screaming, accusing, attacking. A concerted effort to turn a Senate hearing into a sideshow if their wishes were not met. This destruction of decorum and gravitas has consequences, we're seeing the results now. As is stated in Proverbs "He who troubles his own house, shall inherit the wind"
2
Twitter voters of all political persuasions cannot accurately say what this is about. Twitter voters vote for 140-character candidates like Trump. Or like Sanders who has indecently downplayed the impeachment.
1
Considering that Trump almost won the vote, and that an even larger majority of Americans cannot name the three branches of government, I don't put a lot of weight or faith in the opinions of the American people at large. With the pudding between the ears of Donald Trump and his supporters, you could fill the Grand Canyon.
5
The Senate's procedures for this trial are designed to obstruct the release of facts, and therefore are in itself an obvious obstruction of justice.
Those behind this design, and those supporting it, care more about their reelection than defending the constitution, the very task they were elected to do. Everything is backwards, the objectives are flipped, tails wagging dogs. Where are the honest and brave Senators who should see this and do what is right?
5
"the uproar from his supporters would dislocate life in the U.S. for years"
Got news for you: there is widespread rage within this country - right here, right now. The serious misconduct; the abuse of power; the destruction of the very government agencies he's sworn by the constitution to protect; the merging of the executive and legislative branches at McConnell's direction; and at the bottom of it all - the efforts of a minority party to retain power over the rest of us using any means except democratic ones.
8
To the people who feel that Trump did nothing improper:
Perhaps the idea of a country like Ukraine being invited or coerced to interfere in our elections doesn't seem sufficiently frightening. It is a relatively powerless country without a strong apparatus to stir things up beyond its borders. But think of the precedent that would be set if the Senate determines this is not an impeachable offense?
Next time, maybe the country a President might engage in this way will be a country like China: a country with vast powers to spy on, to discredit, or to negatively impact the political opponents of a President in myriad ways. Can we truly say we have democracy or even sovereign rule if this kind of interference is considered acceptable?
11
Failing to provide the requested evidence in defense of their actions. Hiding, obfuscating, blaming the other side vs. proving their innocence means there is something to hide. Wake up everyone, vote McConnell and Trump out and end this national trauma before it's too late.
13
If there nothing to hide, why are Republicans in both houses of congress trying so hard to hide it? Why hasn't/won't Mr. Trump disclose his tax returns? When the president says "Read the transcripts", all I can think is duh, I did. That's why you are facing impeachment. The man is living proof that if you say the same thing long enough and loud enough some people will believe it. I used to think that history would be harsh on those who subvert democracy, but when Mr. Trump is in his 4th term history books will simply be re-written.
8
It amazes me that a complete 'blocking/obstruction' of Congressional access to witness'\es is just fine with half the country.
It could be behind closes doors but how is that allowed?
Democrats should have pursued that in the courts.
No doubt they will have more chances.
4
One of the under covered aspects of the scheme to withhold military aid is its immorality. Imagine, as Schiff said, if our country was dependent on foreign aid to fight off Russia. Imagine that aid was being withheld over a request for a political favor to the leader of the country we were dependent on. The act of withholding aid was reckless, irresponsible, damaging to the security of both nations involved, potentially illegal (see the GAO ruling), immoral, and an unequivocal abuse of a president's power.
9
The responses shown here are a direct byproduct of people who get their news from social media feeds, which is about 60% of the US population. Most will just read the headlines and the four lines of text, while some may even click through to the article, most do not. Almost all of them blindly trust the "news" that shows in their echo chamber feed. That is how you get these types of responses and how people believe they know the facts.
7
Regardless of how this impeachment trial ends, the country will be even further divided than it is today, if that's even imaginable.
I kept contemplating whether Speaker Pelosi should or should not have proceeded with the impeachment because not matter how it turns out, the results will continue to effect this country.
The bottom line for me is that any one who has sworn an oath to uphold and defend the US Constitution then abuses the power bestowed upon them for personal gain should be brought to task for such egregious actions and decisions.
If a person is allowed to continue abusing his or her power, then where could or would that lead to?
The Democrats’ only prudent and responsible choice was to make their case for the impeachment of the president. Hiding or ignoring the truth rather than facing it head on is always disastrous, especially in the long run. For the Democrats to do anything less than the course of action they felt compelled to take would have been irresponsible and reckless.
9
@Marge Keller...wholeheartedly agree, Marge. And by the exact same reasoning in your third paragraph is why the House didn't have a choice. Anyone who is sworn to uphold the Constitution, then treats it as a litany of suggestions doesn't understand their oath—or the Constitution. And it matters not WHAT branch of the government they've been elected to. The RP has had an acute case of selective memory re: this, and then assume, in their infinite "wisdom," the rest of us are too stupid to know better.
2
This makes me so sad...so many people uninformed and misinformed. It's not even complicated: 1) Trump withheld a White House meeting and $391 million in aid from Ukraine to pressure Zelensky to agree to announce an investigation on Joe Biden and Burisma. This is ostensibly to smear Trump's possible opponent ahead of the election.
2) To counter Trump's claim that he was interested in corruption, Trump went outside normal US diplomatic and judicial process and used his personal attorney, Rudy Giuliani, and other hired henchmen to convey Trump's demands.
3) To cover up his crime (the GAO has said withholding aid from Ukraine was illegal), Trump has refused to provide documents and testimony to House investigators, who have the right and the duty to oversee what was done with the money.
Oh, and the person who said that what's going on won't affect them better be multi-millionaires because if they're going to need social security funds or help to pay for their medical bills, then what happens in Washington most definitely will affect them.
8
I want to add that none of what I have written above have ever been factually contested by the White House. They have not presented any evidence to counter the impeachment articles.
In fact, the July call summary that they released directly implicates Trump! And Mick Mulvaney, the acting Chief of Staff, admitted at a press conference that they wanted a quid pro quo (aid & meeting for announcement of an investigation) and that we should all get over it!
Instead, what the White House claims is that none of this is impeachable because Abuse of Power is not impeachable. They also claim that the President cannot be indicted; cannot be investigated by Congress; that any investigation can only be done by the Department of Justice led by a man who works for the President!
The White House, and the Senate, if they acquit Trump, are therefore saying that the President is above the law, which, however distasteful Trump is, is the really alarming and depressing part.
@T.C
Add to that illegal surveillance of a diplomat by henchman who our right threatened her life in text messages to remove the problem.
It's clear that Trump doesn't think he did anything wrong, any more than the boy who stole his classmate's lunch money thinks he did anything wrong. We know his moral compass is sailing too close to the magnetic pole. What the Senate will actually decide is whether that warrants impeachment. The problem is, if the Senate puts party ahead of justice, 53 Republicans establish for all time that morality has no place in the Oval Office, that the White House should be for sale to the highest bidder.
I could live with a 66-34 vote to convict that would leave Trump in the White House with no authority and a reasonable certainty that he won't the occupant on Jan. 22, 2021. What I can't live with is a 53-47 vote not to convict and so establishing corruption as the normal operating procedure. It's too bad the Congressional Republicans have also lost their moral compass and are oblivious to the precedent they are hellbent on establishing.
9
@Tom Mitch McConnell and Attorney General Barr are so happy to continue this charade and let Trump and Republicans continue to break laws, bribe foreign countries, and kick American people in the teeth.
What is really disheartening is Justice Roberts sits complicit as well. We are now a Banana Republic for all purposes.
@Tom
I disagree. What they establish is the Republican Party has no moral or ethical framework beyond power and greed. They lose all moral authority and are the party of sycophants and corruption in the extreme.
Remove them at the ballot. Donate to their opposition vote them out at every level. Then wage war as needed. They chose division. Give it to them and fight these abusive gas-lighters.
This was not a scientific sampling of opinion, so what does it mean? Nothing much.
Of the people quoted, many don't have an understanding of what the impeachment is all about. We can credit reporting for some of that ignorance. With Fox News, it's quite purposeful, but we get a lot of false equivalences, even from the NY Times.
Every time the president is quoted or his allies are invited on news programs and lie, the truth is further distorted. Why don't more people realize this?
I am not anxious for Trump to be removed from office, but I would like other leaders to make clear statements that what he did in regard to Ukraine was wrong. It was also wrong to obstruct the investigation into that wrongdoing. I am a partisan Democrat, but that is not what drives my opinion in this case. Wrong is wrong and it's disturbing that a president seems unable to understand right from wrong.
4
The real problem is Fox News and Russian propaganda sites that reach American in their living room and on their phones and computer screens. They are lying and trying to stir up division in this country, and succeeding quite will. With that as background noise, Trump can get away with anything. He knows it and he will take full advantage.
2
I'm utterly mystified by the survey responses, though I might add, horrified. It seems the folks waiting for each report of the Lincoln/Douglas debates were more informed and cognizant of their importance than their present day counterparts. I understand you gotta live your life, but geez! Can we not make more of an effort to understand how our system works and why this is an event with grave consequences beyond the opinions read here that "people just don't like him"? Yes, I've had a loathing for Trump since he first opened his potty-mouth in the 70's. We've variously elected movie stars, professional wrestlers, comedians to high offices in the past but whether you appreciate the "shake-up" Trump has provided, we've all got to realize that his principles are destructive to our nation. He s the avatar of our worst selves. And he is accused of high crimes and misdemeanors - make no mistake.
8
Wed. at Davos Switzerland President Trump said the following at a news conference :
“I got to watch enough. I thought our team did a very good job,” he said. “But honestly, we have all the material. They don’t have the material."
DUH! what else do we need people, to convict him?
The only honest statement he has ever made said "honestly, we have all the material".
5
Every day. I am all the more embarrassed to be an American. This country has lost its moral compass and the will to better itself on any level. The degrees of complacency and ignorance on display in many of these quotes is beyond anything our forefathers could have imagined. I think we are in the midst of losing our democracy.
7
Using the powers of his office to get Ukraine to investigate his political rival, in order to discredit him and win political advantage, is just one example of his misuse of power. He seems to have no grasp of what it means to be president beyond the fact that it means he has power and leverage around the world. Then once he got caught and the investigation began, he hid information and made everyone around him do the same. So not only did he obstruct justice, but he made others lie to cover his wrongdoing. How many people are in prison now because they agreed to do his bidding and/or lie for him? This is just the tip of the iceberg and I expect that if we had all the truth, it would reveal a corrupt businessman who carried on his cheating and lying because he's never had to face consequences for his actions. Why are our elected officials not required to conduct the business of the people with integrity and decency? I'm disgusted and embarrassed that he is our President, and I think he puts us all at risk every day he's in office.
4
It would have been interesting to hear the responses from Republicans quoted here if they had been asked what they would think if it had been Hillary Clinton behaving like this.
4
I believe that the state of New York should provide Mr. Trump with free housing at Sing Sing or Dannemora for the way that he and his company, including his sister, a judge of the DC Circuit Court of Appeals, collected unlawful rents on their apartments in Queens.
But if Mr. Trump is removed from office, Mike Pence would become president and I believe that he is a far greater danger because he better understands how to operate the levers of power. So I would not wish to see Mr. Trump convicted until some time between December 21, 2020 and January 19, 2021.
3
Not scientific here, but it appeared that a lack of clear understanding of what transpired had a conservative bent.
Kind of like a certain favorite news channel was muddying the waters and trying to cause confusion, so a certain President's loyal base wouldn't actually understand what he did and what the charges are.
4
If the evidence is so overwhelming against President's Trump, why are democrats demanding additional witnesses? Let the congressional record stand on its own and conduct the Senate Trial. Congressional democratic leaders claim the evidence is overwhelming against the President, and yet, they are demanding the Senate subpoena more people to testify against the President.
They want more witnesses because this is a fishing expedition hoping something will be revealed unrelated to the Ukraine. Anything ...
Americans demand the President make certain tax payers' money will not be wasted in corrupt countries. American wealth has been wasted in trying to benefit other countries people.
Bring the money back to the States and spend it in Los Angeles. We have a third world country income inequalities, heck, we can't even afford to pay rent in the metropolitan area.
@F1Driver The phonecall shows that the President asked Ukraine to launch investigations into Burisma and the Crowdstrike server theory, and to bypass the official diplomatic channels to do so. It shows this request coming right after Zelenski asked about the delayed military aid, with the "I want you to do us a favor though" segue from Trump. Most people would interpret that as Trump conditioning the aid on the investigations, but Trump denies it. The sworn testimony of basically everyone who *did* testify backs up this interpretation. Take (for example), Sondland's phonecall about Trump only caring about "big stuff" - going after the Bidens. The documentary evidence we do have also back up this interpretation. The additional stuff that's recently surfaced (the Lev Parnas stuff) now also paints the same picture - though he hasn't been under oath.
There's a push to ignore all this as "hearsay", misinterpretation etc. Yes, we heard from some people on the call (Vindman), and people with some first hand knowledge, including Sondland, but somehow this is discounted by Republicans because they weren't key players.
So, let's hear from these key players directly - Mulvaney (in charge of the aid freeze), Guiuliani himself... and of course honor subpoenas for documents that might provide first hand evidence.
That's why, if we actually care about the truth, extra witnesses have value. Unfortunately Republans seem to view their job as defending Trump rather than getting the truth.
1
@Paul Notley your reply tracks the points made by the democrats managers yesterday afternoon. Exactly the same!
If the points you made in your reply are true and the facts are irrefutable, why are democrats demanding more people to testify?
I will tell you why... This exercise has nothing to do with National Security, even if the release of aid was conditional upon verification the aid was not going to be directed to corrupt people in Ukraine. Let's face it, Ukraine is a corrupt country and U.S. officials have been completely incompetent about the corruption, it begs the question, what have the ambassadors to Eurasian countries doing?
One of the President's defense attorneys said it, they don't want Trump to be in the 2020 presidential ballot, because he will win reelection. Foreign aid always comes with strings attached. The problem is that this time Biden and his son were part of the corruption endeavors. U.S. politicians have acted corruptly. An none more evident than the Clintons and the Bidens.
@F1Driver When have you ever seen a trial without witnesses? When someone is hiding the facts, why they are doing it seems obvious. Just admit it, you don't want to see the truth, F1.
2
Emotions, such as anger and hatred, block thinking.
A large part of the population is consumed with negatively characterizing those who uncover what's happening, so that they don't have to concern themselves with responding to what's happening.
1
I've only listed to about half the House hearings & the Senate trial so far. But the amount of utter ignorance & misinformation, especially among the President's apologists, about what has actually happened, is astounding.
3
@Martin Heck, there is ignorance (or lies) among Trump's own counsel! Sekulow claimed that House Republicans were not permitted in the closed hearings! That is an absolutely false statement. Was he lying? Misleading the Senate? Or plain ignorant of the facts?
1
Any person quoted in this article who does not think that Trump is guilty just wants the “free” traveling sideshows he calls rallies to continue.
Ps they are not funny and either is he.
4
Today Mr. Schiff in presenting the introduction to the impeachment was bot plaintiff and powerful. If Republicans can ignore the abuse of power article how can they ignore subpoenas from a duly authorized Congress? Right now you may shout partisan politics all you want, but no one is allowed to ignore the law or believe they are above the law.
During the McCarthy era many innocent people were compelled to appear before his tribunal even as unfair as it was and were jailed if they did not appear. You may argue all you want over his role in the Ukrainian affair, but not respecting the legal authority of the congress is a CRIME. Will you now give that right to all Presidents when they decide just to ignore the law? The Senate might think it is above the House, but it is the Congress and if you do not stand together against a tyrant president you and allof us are lost.
2
There is a big difference between people that think the evidence or legal system warrants an impeachment and whether someone *wants* to see the president impeached. Unfortunately we live in a society, and this article is written in general, that conflates that want for an opinion on the legitimacy of this process.
That we're even asking if people understand the charges show that the majority are just reflecting whether they want to see impeachment. Whether they are glad he was elected, agree with his policy choices, etc. None of that has anything to do with impeachment process, though the outcome might make some happy.
How about an article that looks into purely partisan politics, how the system is biased, and what we could do to fix that. What about the partisan decisions being made by our Congress (both sides) and how that doesn't help our country. Or worse, that the Supreme court is decidedly partisan and not an impartial high court.
It's just a big game to most. And the average person is cheering it on.
1
After reading the comments in the article , I surmise that we are hurting as a nation.
Thomas Jefferson wrote that a well-informed electorate is a prerequisite to democracy. Our founders declared that Americans needed more and better education to preserve their state and national republics from relapsing into tyranny.
Democracies rest on the ability of the general public to hold their elected officials accountable. But what happens when a large segment of voters knows very little about today’s policy debates or even the basic workings of American government?
23
@Wang An Shih Your comment says it all. Sad but true. Thank you.
So you managed to reach 81 people? Big whoop.
But, congrats.
7
The IGNORANCE OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE IS ASTOUNDING!
These are the core principles of this Democracy that are at stake; principles that are being run over roughshod by a narcissistic sociopath. The fact that so few American are in the least informed about the facts, their Constitution and the nature of a Democracy is shameful. THEY are being conned by a crook who takes advantage of their ignorance and lack of involvement - their little children know more than they do (assuming they live anywhere near a civilized community and school system that values decent education and the whole truth.
ALL LEGITIMATE news media are replete with thorough and accurate accounts of Trump's criminal empire, his incompetence, his moral depravity and his abysmal failure as a "businessman". Why don't ALL THESE people know it? How many can even name the countries of the Holocaust? How many know the name, let alone the location, of Ukraine?
The world is smaller than many think, and we cannot exist as an island, especially a tyrannical one led by a moron sociopath.
109
@RealTRUTH The anger level of these people doesn't seem nearly as high as the anger level among people who comment in the Times.
The closer we get to the election, the greater the percentage of people who will think that the election should decide. This would be an issue mainly if the federal courts got involved. When these courts say that they are expediting a case, it means that they hope to have a decision within a few months, as opposed to a few years.
@Bill Keating
There is a long-held DOJ directive that frowns upon intervention during an active election cycle, so it is not likely that the courts will do too much going forward until AFTER the election, when it's too late. This was the problem with Comey when he was torn about releasing concerns regarding Clinton's server BOTH times - bringing it up AND negating it.
Trump lives by accusation and loves anything he can lie about or spin such as a fake conspiracy. As you've seen, his ignorant zealots live in na na land when it comes to FACTS.
We comment in the Times to inform, reinforce the truth and to express our "pissedoffedness" at having to defend the Constitution that we cherish and THEY couldn't care less about. Many people do not deserve to be Americans and enjoy the freedoms that others died for and they take for granted.
6
To the republican respondents and commenters who say Trump did nothing wrong, there's no evidence: be honest. The evidence of crime is plain to see: "We want you to do us a favor though." The truth is, you don't care that he abused his office. It's win at all costs for republicans, the health of our democracy be damned.
48
@Bay Area Native - A President can abuse his office by having a traffic ticket fixed, or he can abuse his office by using an alleged attack on a U.S. Navy destroyer by two North Vietnamese torpedo boats in the Gulf of Tonkin, an alleged attack that never happened by ships that were not present that night, to secure from Congress a free hand in the Vietnam War. Using that free hand from Congress, Lyndon Johnson sent a half million American troops to Vietnam, and over 58,000 of them returned home in body bags.
Bravo Putin.
The USA has sold you the tools of our destruction and as long as some can get rich and famous, damn America, full steam ahead.
26
Trump is the Joe McCarthy of our time. I was amazed to find the McCarthy is considered a hero in hos home state...still! Truth and justice will never totally win. And America will; always have a 35% problem.
15
@mark Originally from Wisconsin and I don't remember McCarthy being considered a hero or hardly ever mentioned there. However, the right wing up there may be resurrecting his ugly ghost.
1
@mark
Fox News is the problem. We have to be willing to get dirty and deal with them. They are out right liars.
@mark McCarthy is a Hero in Wisconsin? Then just like Trump in New York, it would seem. Please check your biased assumptions at the door. Or river.
For so many people to say at this point that Trump did nothing seriously wrong, or to throw out that Dems are just obsessed with him and thus need to be rebuffed, used to make me angry. But after hearing this again and again, I now just find it deeply confusing.
At this point, these attitudes seem to reflect a truth about cognition and the role of narrative that I never suspected and still don’t understand.
The Republic may well be lost. If Trump wins in November it is done. I’m finally coming to terms with all of this. It is sad, but on the other hand it is interesting.
29
@NSK And I think that if Sanders or Warren win we are lost. Trump is crass and can be infantile, but he hasn't done anything to warrant impeachment. He may be unlikable in many ways, but to my mind Warren or Sanders threaten our way of life and our Constitution.
That I guess is the crux of the disconnect in this country.
@NSK “Obsessed”? Democrats have been scheming this Impeachment since election night 2016.
@Peter
Rather than just saying that you think Warren and Sanders threaten our way of life and the Constitution”,please back up your statement with facts so I can understand why you believe this to be so.
1
The real problem is that people in this country have no grasp of history, they have no real coursework in civics or the constitution or even understand what Trump is accused of. The cop who was quoted as saying "they would have no case against him in a court of law" is like many Americans, they don't understand that impeachment is not a criminal action, it is a political process to remove a politician who has violated (they believe) their oath of office. Too, the claim that a president is immune from prosecution while in office covers only criminal offenses, it has zero to do with impeachment (more importantly, that shield from criminal prosecution is NOT in the constitution, it is common law as held over the centuries, Scotus could overturn it).
I think those who claim Trump did not potentially violate his oath of office for the most part haven't looked at the facts, they are looking at what Fox News and Breitbart tell them. Do I think Trump should be removed from office? Given that the Senate is overwhelmingly Republican, it isn't going to happen, the important part (that the GOP does NOT want) is that the information gets in front of the public. If all the evidence we have seen is broadcast, if they hear the Parnas information, see the emails, the GOP knows it will make Trump and them look really, really bad, and that is what this is about, they want the truth buried in Fox News and Breitbart, not in the open for people to decide.
106
@music observer I agree that part of the problem is the lack of education in history and government in this country. The classes exist, and in many cases required, but the students don't pay attention, and don't care for the most part. They are looking at Rate My Prof for the easiest class to take with the "hottest" teacher and tend to read the five words around a "keyword" rather than understand a whole paragraph. This was my experience as a history teacher.......
14
@music observer
The very foundation of the impeachment as designed by the framers was, if the impeachment became necessary, that it NOT be a political process. It is you, music observer, who does not understand what's going on and very likely because you cannot see those you support as the political henchmen that they are.
1
@music observer
It sounds like you're the one who misunderstood what the cop quoted was saying.
In correctly saying that they would have no case against Trump in court of law, he is saying that the political process of impeachment is invalid in this case.
Impeachment IS a political process. But it's been presented as if it's not a political process, that Trump is a grave danger to the republic because he is abusing his office. Outside of the political realm, people who abuse their position are held to account in a real court, and accused of civil or criminal wrongdoing. Trump is accused of neither.
What most of his supporters gloss over is the fact he wanted a country to do his personal bidding to a political rival. That is wrong on so many levels especially holding up aide to get what he wants.
71
@Matt
Yes Matt - and OUR national security is at stake as we let Putin and Xi expand their spheres of influence while Trump cheats at golf AT OUR EXPENSE!
5
@Matt I believe that's also considered to be treason.
@Saints Fan
But he never once asked in the phone call for corruption in general to be investigated. Only Biden. Funny how that works.
2
Q-Why do so many of the quotes just seem lifted from the talking heads at Fox and MSNBC? A- (1) because Cliff's Notes are easier than reading the text; (2) because after a while it sounds like the same blather 24/7, only so much blather is tolerable; and (3) Trump is part right on one thing, the impeachment "trial" is rigged --by Mitch and co..
The easy way out is kick the can down the road for another 10 months. Then the voters will decide who the real obstructionists were. But unfortunately elections never seem fact driven. And if the current state of impeachment isn't enough, just think of all those voters in non-swing states who will be on the sidelines watching what all the advertising money buys by way of votes from the few undecideds in swing states.
Like the impeachment, the election will be gut-driven not fact-driven. A battle between what's best for me versus what's best for the country. Remember, altruism is never outdated.
11
@kenny The view that voters should decide on whether the president abused his office or committed crimes does not stand. It does not belong to democracy. It belongs to countries ruled by the mob. Let us remember that many fascist and communist dictatorships were brought on by the people themselves, sometimes through elections. In these systems, the mob and eventually powerful leaders decide arbitrarily who is punished for crimes and who walks away, and what constitutes a crime. The Republicans argue that this impeachment is illegitimate, designed to remove an elected president. They are trying to swindle people by arguing that in a democracy, the behavior of this president should be judged by voters. If, however, the president is guilty as charged, they are in fact trying to impose mob rule through disinformation to isolate a criminal from the consequences of his actions. Instead of defending democracy, that is a step towards authoritarian rule.
1
The article makes the claim that the majority seemed well acquainted with the allegations and the evidence that supports them. Reading the comments of the vast majority of those interviewees demonstrates that premise to be completely false. Your president asked a foreign government to help him politically by publicly accusing a domestic political rival. He attempted to extort that help by illegally withholding millions in aid that Congress had approved and that were vital to Ukraine’s ability to repel Russian aggression. When Congress tried to investigate to get all the relevant facts, the President went to extraordinary lengths to prevent that from happening. Not a single interviewee appeared to grasp the simplicity, or the gravity, of what is not, in the slightest, the complex case these writers suggest. That most Americans don’t seem to grasp this is just disheartening.
229
@John David James I agree. This is not a complex case, and the fact that so many people can't understand it goes a long way toward explaining why we're in this sad state of affairs to begin with.
23
@John David James
Yes. More than 60% of the country is held hostage by people who are either morally stunted or suffer from cognizant dissonance.
11
@John David James They didn't publish the majority of the responses. They cherry picked to make it look like both sides were equally responsive. Unless they produce all the responses or a summary of the variation it's just noise.
5
President Trump is the first person since Nixon to commit impeachable offenses before even taking the oath. They both violated the Logan Act which criminalizes "negotiation by unauthorized persons with foreign governments having a dispute with the United States". Nixon sent emissaries to Saigon to dissuade the government from negotiating a peace deal with North Vietnam and president Johnson, a deal that Nixon accepted six years later after the loss of millions of Vietnamese, Laotian, and Cambodian lives, not to mention another 25,000 U.S. soldiers killed and 100,000 or so wounded. Trump sent NSA nominee Gen. Michael Flynn to persuade Russian officials to ignore pres. Obama's new sanctions and to assure them that pres. elect Trump would ease those sanctions when in office. President Trump has demonstrated scorn for the rule of law from day one, has asserted in legal arguments that local law enforcement could not even investigate him if he "shot a person on 5th Ave", and apparently believes that the 2nd Article of the Constitution allows him "to do anything I want". He is a clear and present danger to the Nation and the Constitution which sustains it.
59
I meant Jarvis-Gann! (see?)
"using the power of the presidency to extract foreign help against a domestic rival."
What a lot of the commenters seem to be missing is the full context of the abuse of power.
- Congress approved aide to Ukraine.
- He signed it, thereby making it the LAW.
- He illegally withholds the aide, trying to extract a promise to announce an investigation into his likely presidential campaign rival.
- When it becomes known, he instructs the executive branch, responsible for enforcing the country's laws, not to cooperate with Congress in the investigation.
He wasn't just being a bully. He wasn't just being inappropriate. This wasn't an unseemly quid pro quo. He acted outside his Constitutionally appointed duties. He subverted a separate and co-equal branch of government (Congress). He ignored the subpoena power of that branch of Congress, to prevent it from investigating his behavior. He violated his oath of office, the only thing that keeps us a constitutional republic.
151
@LV well said!
6
The more evidence and witnesses, the better for the American people. Let both sides call whomever they want. Did Trump break the law for his own campaign's benefit? Let the truth come out!
15
I am a registered Democrat. I loathe Donald Trump. Impeachment is the wrong thing to do at the worst time. The Democrats should have been, and should still be, focused on finding a candidate who can challenge and beat Trump. BUT!! I do not want a disconnected, elitist, tax mongering, open border, free trading, middle class destroyer of jobs and industry! That is what the Democrats have offered up for the last 30 years and that is why Donald Trump will NOT be impeached and it is also why Trump will win in the fall.
The Democrats don't have a clue why they lost to Trump. They don't have a clue why many of us couldn't stand Hillary and don't understand why jobs, unions, health care, access to education, decent housing, fair trade rules and protection of intellectual property are important to all of us. Democrats are literally space cadets orbiting a different planet.
Trump offers the middle class protection of their jobs, restoration of industry, lower taxes, secure borders, fair trade agreements, and a stock market that is performing while inflation is in check and interest rates are lower, possibly going lower.
It was the disenfranchised middle class workers that put Trump into office. The tone deaf Democratic Party leadership can't hear them. Donald will win in the Senate and win in the fall election.
Democrats! Wake up!
If you want to beat Trump offer a better future to America and stop this impeachment nonsense.
12
@Jack Frost
Good luck to you and all of us trying to coexist in the Democratic party. We definitely have our differences. Hopefully, what we agree on will give us enough common ground to move forward together.
4
@Jack Frost So Jack:
If the President abuses his/her power for own personal benefit, against the law, you are willing to excuse it because it is "the worst time"?
Any time a President breaks the law is a good time to impeach him/her (hopeful there). Doesn't matter how close to an election. That argument you make is similar to the one McConnell made about why he subverted the job of the Senate in not giving Obama his constitutional right to name a justice to the SCOTUS. The law is the law is the law. If we can excuse people because of timing, gosh help us because that means every other year people can brazenly break the law without consequences.
2
@Jack Frost If jobs (what kind of jobs are we talking about?), unions, health care, access to education, decent housing, fair trade rules are important to you you haven't been paying attention to your guy and his appointees.
4
Excellent job. It shows how complicated and conflicted most people feel about impeachment in an election year. Can readers have access to all 81 comments?
2
@AK It isn't that complicated if folks bother to pay attention. People who say things like "It's made up stuff...." simply aren't paying attention to the facts at hand.
5
It's an old fight, really the only fight we've ever had as a nation, and we've never gone a day without it.
Some people feel that they are entitled to their own facts;
that said facts, if fervently believed, are real;
that the narrative they dwell in is equal to reality even when reality contradicts it;
and that whatever damage they do by believing their narrative and forcing it upon others is what they are owed, because their narrative begins and ends with their inherent superiority over others.
Trump is the supreme embodiment of this mindset. The Republicans are committed irreversibly to it because any one of them who calls it just a story, who said there's a single lie or fraud in it, punctures the entire illusion.
It's a fundamentally in-American position. We were founded as a nation on the certainty of self-evidence--the fact of fact--and now one party is fighting to destroy that.
It can't last. Reality prevails in the markets, science, law. It prevails in communities and consciences. It will catch up with this depravity and break its short brutal hold on power and leave the GOP in the same rank ashes where the Confederacy lies. The question is, have they so little self-awareness and character that this had to happen again, and if so, why?
7
Trump is from a different background than any politician. He has had to evade rules in order to get anything done in NYC. He is too old to learn new rules and is not interested. He tried to make a deal with the Ukrainian president to get information about the Biden family. That of itself is a criminal misuse of US funds. So, Trump needs to be removed from office either now or in Nov 2020. His election was a giant mistake and needs to be corrected.
11
What really bothers me in this article, is that the same conspiracy minded folks who would follow a theory based on the flimsiest of rumors , are ignoring the evidence in front of their faces everyday.
I missed when Americans were more critical thinkers.
24
@Michael
"I missed when Americans were more critical thinkers."
When was that? But then I'm only 88 and just haven't lived that long. On the other hand I'm something of a history buff.
Still don't know when that was.
5
@James F Traynor
When people read for themselves instead of letting state TV tell them what opinion you have .
I mean in your 88 years you may not have seen it , but I remember in half that time I have seen more critical thinkers and adherence to the laws and constitution than what we currently have in the senate.
@Michael When was that?
1
The President cannot be impeached for policy differences or being rude. He must be impeached for contradicting, threatening to violate, and violating the Constitution.
High Crimes Committed by Trump:
Calling for violence against citizens without due process, which is replacing debate and voting with political violence.
Calling his critics treasonous because he thinks criticizing Trump is attacking the Republic.
Taking payments from foreign countries while calling the Emoluments Clause "phony " No Clause of the Constitution is phony and saying so is a statement of intent to violate that clause.
Demanding personal loyalty (Fealty) from pubic servants who swore an oath to the Constitution, not Trump.
Saying, "the Press is the enemy of the people," while calling for violence against journalists and news organizations.
Refusing to coordinate a defense of our elections from attack by foreign governments.
Accusing the entire US Intelligence Community of being "treasonous" with no evidence for years, while praising our attackers.
Obstructing the investigations into attacks on our elections. This was clear even in TV when he repeatedly attacked Sessions for not protecting him from investigation, and Mueller for conducting one.
Saying he can take away birthright citizenship, contradicting the 14th Amendment.
Ignoring the 22nd Amendment to say he will be president for "4 terms, maybe 5."
Missappropriating funds to his pet projects.
Etc.
20
I'm now mostly concerned with people who lived in Mississippi during the time the 'retired law enforcement officer' was on duty.
16
The mentality in this country has shifted markedly toward "win at any cost." It's in sports, it's in schools, it's in politics. We have lost our way. We are no longer genteel, accepting, kind, cooperative beings. We yell as loud as we can, to the point that no one can hear any opposing viewpoints. I have no use for the President, but given that everyone flaunts the rules, are we just reacting to his ham-handed, obnoxious methods? If we don't stem this behavior, I fear for our society. It really SHOULD BE all about how you play the game.
2
"With the Senate trial of Mr. Trump now underway, we deployed a team of journalists to find out. They contacted hundreds of voters who had responded to an online survey saying they would be willing to be interviewed. We reached 80 people, from nearly 30 states."
There are 50 states and millions of voters and so, what does talking to 80 people in fewer than 50 states prove about diddly? Nothing.
In 1974, everyone knew what it was about. In 1999, most people knew what it was about. Now? That there's so much head scratching speaks volumes. Here woulda been an idea: Charge the president with violating campaign finance laws by paying hush money to Stormy Daniels--that's a slam-dunk felony that'll put you behind bars. Ask Cohen. That something so simple and so provable isn't in the articles of impeachment shows that the Democrats have nothing on the Keystone Kops when it comes to fighting high crimes and misdemeanors.
Get this over with, the sooner the better. It's not doing anyone any good.
3
Do most people really 'grasp the basics'? That is not the sense I got from the included quotes.
I see no value in publishing uninformed opinions, and perhaps harm, as this piece seems to perpetuate the media narrative that impeachment proceedings are a 'partisan war' (rather than a valid and necessary process to protect America's institutions).
Perhaps the NYT could return to informing the public rather than simply remarking on how uninformed and divided the public have become.
14
This grab-bag of opinions aside, I find the hypocrisy of people like Lindsay Graham and Kenneth Starr to be truly stunning, saying that Trump's conduct isn't impeachable after saying 20 years ago that Clinton's was. They seem to have no more sense of shame than Trump. Maybe Trump's flip-flopping defenders will all end up saying what Alan Dershowitz told Anderson Cooper and Jeffrey Toobin: he now has a more sophisticated understanding of what it takes to be impeached - truly the essence of a lame rationale. There is no doubt at all that the Founders, particularly as they expressed themselves in the ratification debates, would deem Clinton's lying under oath in a perjury trap NOT to be impeachable. And it's almost as nearly certain that they would find Trump's coercion of a foreign state for his personal political gain to be grounds for impeachment. The Republicans are now shining Trump's misdeeds on, making as much irrelevant noise as they can. They are sowing the wind. Of course, that won't keep them from simply denying it next time around.
9
The condescending tone of this piece is astonishing. The case is complex but most Americans get the basics... In other words, the vast majority of the Americans do not get the complexity. Only the Democratic Party gets it.. and some media.
2
People think every little thing he has done to aggravate them counts as an impeachable offense. It just doesn't. How narcissistic have we become that we no longer even consider facts of the case and instead bring in our own perceptions as evidence?
Congress is wasting our time. The election will determine the next president. We all know this.
3
Talking only to people who bothered to respond to an online survey is only representative of the kind of people who bother to respond to an online survey.
4
When I read comments like "Quid pro quo is normal", and "Kind of abusing his power", and most scary "It's very confusing, and I really can't understand", I get very concerned that people don't understand the role of the president, his limited powers, and his obligations to follow the Constitution.
"Quid pro quo is normal" when the items exchanged are in the national interest but not for a private gain. "Kind of abusing his power" doesn't hold Trump accountable. He withheld the aid (passed by Congress and signed by him) to extort Ukraine to do his bidding.
The statement, "It's very confusing, and I really can't understand", is disconcerting. Can't you read, research, and draw a conclusion? There are the facts in news outlets like the Times and NBC News or the propaganda mills like FOX. Can't you tell truth from fiction? While I appreciate your candor, please recognize your obligation to educate yourself. This comment reminds me of the 2% of the electorate who are undecided on Election Day. I'm a little tired of our fate being in the hands of the low info voter.
Trump is hated because he is deserving of hate. Prejudice, bigotry, misogyny, sexual harassment, lies upon lies, incompetence, ignorance, arrogance, cronyism, corruption, cheating, Russia, etc. All that led to the Ukraine scandal.
Simply: Trump wants to be a King above the law, but the president is not a King. Almost every Trump problem stems fro his fundamental misunderstanding of the presidency.
14
His obvious corruption and criminality notwithstanding, if Trump cared about the country at all he would resign to stop the damage he's doing. Clearly his priority remains his own self-aggrandizement.
4
Trump hid his "perfect phone call" in with our top military secrets.
His administration scrambled to cover that up, and had to turn over a version of it that Trump had redacted. Own it- he did it.
He lied about what Giuliani was doing at his behest. He hassled a US ambassador during a hearing. Own that too.
Look, I get it that the GOP likes their businessman president- and he is a corrupt businessman. And he indeed is THEIR president - he wants it that way and so do Republicans.
But the rest of us do not have to excuse the the criminal behavior, the ignorance or our laws and institutions. Ignorance is no excuse. And it is not what is required of American citizens.
5
How wrong this remark is: "Has [Trump] done inappropriate things? Yeah, I hate to tell you, every president has." I have to ask, would the writer say this to a parent of one of the 15,000 dead Ukrainian soldiers, or to the parents of one of those who died while the aid was being held up by Trump? Comments like this remind me of the Englishmen who, in 1938, chanted "Peace in our time" after Chamberlain sold out their ally Czechoslovakia.
4
Can Mitch be impeached? He has way tooooo much power!
5
The level of ignorance about what Trump did is depressing. I would like to ask the people who think he did nothing wrong why the White House tried to cover up the call.
If he did nothing wrong, he wouldn’t have anything to hide.
6
The damage is done. In fact the damage was done before Trump and the anti-America GOP captured the White house. The body politic has been fatally polluted by the infections of misinformation, bigotry and a wholesale failure of intellect and integrity.
2
The name of the play: “Character”
Play is based on Adam Schiffs impeachment
Speech on the floor of the Senate on January 22, 2020.
If you saw Hamilton on Broadway, this is for you.
1
If Republicans continue to support Trump and Trumpism, and if (therefore) the 2020 presidential election goes to Trump because of Russian hacking and voter suppression, the U.S. will continue on its path to a Fascist state. It is no longer a dystopian fantasy to believe that in a few years, oppositional journalists and politicians will be murdered in 'accidents'. Putin knows how to do it, and before long the American state will, too. -- Just think of all the cruel, illegal policies the Republican senators support: the separation of families at the border, the deaths of children and adults in the internment camps at the border, the Nazi marches in American cities, the white supremacist politicians and journalists. If you had asked me even last year, I would have said such a belief as the one I've expressed here is extreme. Now I don't think so, and the votes of the Republican senators -- and of course the leadership of McConnell -- are the reasons.
7
If you asked a real, diverse, and truly representative sample of Americans, they would more than likely care t about impeachment much than the NYTimes does, and would rather see politicians addressing the everyday struggles of Americans instead of this goose chase.
3
If ever there was justification to impeach a President, Donald Trump has lied and cheated his way to the Presidency, while in office, he has revealed himself as the liar and con artist we have come to know, and what he always was as the dishonest real estate dealer in N.Y. He fits perfectly in the Republican Party because their mantra is, 'lie, cheat and steal to achieve and maintain power. There are only two Articles of Impeachment, but there could have been so many more. The elephant in the room is Trump's mental impairment that alone should preclude him from ever having been elected; and likely he would not have been if not helped by Russia, another reason to Impeach Trump.
5
The hands-down best quote in this article was from Jonathan Swenson of Utah.
1
Critical thinking skills seem to be in short supply.
2
The comments remind me of the comic “man on the street” interviews done by late night comics. Those interviews, much like this article’s extracted comments, are painful reminders of the general public’s ignorance.
They reveal how Trump was elected and why he still enjoys some support. A disturbing number of closed minds.......
3
I want to let Trump supporters in on a little secret. The smart people in America, nee the entire world, think of you as, down right stupid or fools. It's a pity but there you have it, as plain as I can make it. When I read statements that show a total lack of understanding of history, the law and our Constitution, I chalk that up to ignorance. I have been ignorant myself about a lot of things in my life but I've never, actively, turned away from remedying that situation. And that's where the fools rush in. The idea that you could better your understanding, your point or yourselves and you choose, instead, to ignore facts logic and reality, makes you look foolish, especially if all it takes is a change of channels. That shows that you have chosen willful ignorance over common sense. The fact that you, after three years, can not, will not or don't want to see this con perpetrated on the American public means you're the mark and you can be fooled again. I don't mean to be cruel but I thought you'd want to know, if you're wearing his propaganda, you're only advertising you're disability.
9
@Rick Gage Well said, Rick!
2
We are leaning towards a dictatorship by a bully, narcissist and miserable person. I applaud the pros and cons, but let them be based on facts and not propaganda. The Republicans have become masters of propoganda, they would make the Communists blush. Wake up America, before it's too late.
4
Unless you are an ignorant, the facts are there, Trump should be removed from office. Oh, and another comment! Judge Roberts "admonished" both GOP servants and the Managers. How is this possible when our--regrettably--president insults and belittles everybody on an everyday basis?!
4
Perjury? Not a problem.
Torture? Not a problem.
Drone lynching hundreds of civilians? Not a problem
Withholding foreign aid for political purposes? Now that's crossing the line!!
4
I agree with Terry Scott from Kent, Washington, completely!
They should have buried him!
2
It is interesting that the supporters of Trump can't actually articulate why he is being impeached and seem to have no idea what the articles of impeachment say, which whether or not you agree with them, they are publicly available. So anyone who claims they don't know what is going on is willfully ignorant.
6
Astonishing how willfully ignorant so many people are. It cannot be enjoyable to live each and every day in such a state of active denial and avoidance of reality.
2
These comments, many seemingly from the sort of people who delivered Trump to office in the first place, are depressing in their ignorance.
3
80 year old truckers?
Judging by who the times talks to I'd say 50% of the American populace is 80+ and lives either at a truck stop or a rural diner.
3
"Would you have guessed that the 21-year-old we mentioned was a Republican, and the 82-year-old a Democrat?"
Of course there are a wide range of views in this country. I can find you a 21-year-old Nazi sympathizer and an 82-year-old Nazi sympathizer, does that mean that Nazi sympathizers are even remotely common among those two age groups?
All I can really do is read the "thoughts" that those who don't see "evidence" and shake my head. How has the public education system failed so miserably in this country in instilling any media literacy?
3
Ask yourself if this whole matter will prove anything. For the amount of money we're spending, I guess you should enjoy the entertainment valuer of this. The weakness of all the governmental units is clearly on display. Schumer and Pelosi have had 3 years of someone they could have worked with, and chose a belligent opposition instead. What a waste. And, Adam Schiff is an ignoramus.
3
I live in Texas. Arkansas is very near. We heard a lot of neg-stuff about the clintons(-notice not capitals). Also Neg- stuff about O'boma. [ Very low opinon about both. ] But never so much made up neg.stuff about them as about Trump. If you can find one president that was without flows print his name. We Independents like the point of view and follow through that Trump has shown. Since it is obvious The New York Times is a Democrat Liberal paper, I for one will disregard what ever you say about Trump. When you can criticize The Democrats like you do Trump, I may read your paper and pay for it.
2
Re: "...But what do the American people think?"
Mr. Trump's (2) signature 'accomplishments' in office...withdrawals from the 'Paris_Climate', 'N, 'Iranian Multi_Party_N.-W.M.D._Prevention' agreements...are serious mass extinction threats to ALL earthly life.
Beyond the current impeachment-/-removal, caused by Mr. Trump's acceptance of foreign economic / electoral / other input to an American election...acts expressly, forbidden by the U.S. contusion...Mr. Trump's grossly, apparent mental illness is an extinction threat, in/of, itself.
I CAN'T remove Mr. Trump / end his maladministration, except as a U.S voter_citizen; I'll vote AGAINST Mr. Trump / ALL Republican candidates as always, X's 44+ years!
Republicans appear 101% amoral, thus I'm depending on the Democrats to remove this serial_fraudster, A.S.A.P., before he commits another assassination / bizarre act, which could plunge our country into further war_profiteering.
The late Iranian_General, Suleimani, is NO loss; however, it appears NO thought was given to even the next 5 minutes, post assassination resulting in a civilian airliner, destroyed!
Was this assassination a 'wag-the-dog' crime, to shift public attention FROM Trump's impeachment? It certainly looks, like it...
It should constitute a 3rd. article of impeachment, if facts demonstrate 'wag-the-dog' motivation!!
1
Americans come in two flavors, dumb and smart.
1
How did HL Mencken predict our situation so accurately?
HL Mencken (1880-1956):
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
8
Stupidity has a knack of getting its way; as we should see if we were not always so much wrapped up in ourselves.
Albert Camus
The Plague
2
Our nation is hopelessly stupid. Just look at the grammatical differences between his supporters and detractors in these interviews; it's night and day. Conservative "opinions" amount to "I just feel" and "I just know."
These same people who cry for the President being subject to scrutiny probably loved dropping the N-Word when discussing Obama.
2
compelling & interesting read BUT it is utterly, somewhat horrifyingly, mind-blowing how many people asked, specifically the Republicans, truly have zero logical grasp of not only federal laws and the framework of our Constitition, and what a POTUS is and is not allowed to do, but that Trump has actually admitted to / perjured himself of a few of the crimes he has committed on the written & televised record !!!?! as have multiple people who have been indicted, tried, convicted and even jailed (to note: Trump's crimes far exceed the impeachment charges)....how can an electorate be so blind to the actual facts & honest truth ?? easy: Fox (not)News ....after all is said & done with the GOP's sham of an impeachment trial, the real trial comes on Nov 3rd, and I feel confident Trump will get tossed, more than likely in a landslide turn-out (unless the Russians have figured out, or have been assisted by the GOP, how to get into our voting machines & computers, then we're toast)
1
Americans are very poorly educated. It shows.
5
You admit people yu interviewed weren't a random sample. So, why is your article worth reading? What useful information does it contain? I think the article count as a vanity piece by NYT journalists.
3
It's astounding how little information some people need to decide they comprehend an issue adequately to draw definitive and authoritative conclusions. Americans are idiots.
2
As if reality television didn't prove the point, this piece merely supports the contention that Americans are really, really stupid.
4
Trump has no interest in following the unwritten rules of his predecessors and I suppose that is what his flock finds so appealing. Yet none of the former 44 Presidents have abused the power of the office as Trump has, including Nixon. He's a rebel seeking applause and fancies himself an entertainer, not a leader. Again, his flock loves him for it.
Unfortunately, as a New Yorker, we've known of his shenanigans since the 1970s; no one in this fair burg ever took the guy seriously. Shows you the power of TV.
Regarding the charges, yes, he is guilty as sin. Question is, is he deserving of removal? Even I have a hard time reconciling conviction knowing what I know of history (which is possibly too much) and I detest Trump with every fiber of my being. Of course, the idea of President Pence wakes me in a cold sweat but that's neither here-nor-there.
No, he'll walk and then crow about how he was 'exonerated'. Senators in swing states who vote NAY will work hard to convince voters why they should remain in office. Some, if not all, will succeed.
As for the public, those who despise him will be unmoved by the outcome as will those who worship the pedestal he stands on. All those in-between will decide his fate come November; so I'll ask those tweeners, do you really want four more years of this? Can you in good conscience, give this guy a pass?
Balls in your court...
2
Dear Chief Justice Roberts,
You have described the duty of a Judge as one who calls balls and strikes but when it comes to your role in an impeachment trial the “strike zone” is largely undefined and calling balls and strikes becomes a metaphor without meaning.
As a voter I have very little responsibility for who sits in your office but I consider you deeply and personally responsible for the confidence I can have in the rule of law, my government and my vote. Rather than being “largely ceremonial” your duty of presiding over the impeachment trial of our president is both an obligation of your office and because the strike zone is undefined must involve personal choice as to what is your personal responsibility.
Chief Justice William H. Rehnquist was right to congratulate himself by saying, “I did nothing in particular, and I did it very well.” But that was a different case. In the present case, “doing nothing in particular,” avoids the moment. How to interpret, “shall preside,” is a responsibility left by the constitution up to the chief justice alone.
The senate writes the rules but still you shall preside. I write now to ask you to recognize that a full and fair trial is the beginning, middle and end of what the constitution asks you to preside over. There is no strike zone and the constitution allows for your opinion as well as your knowledge of the law. It is an awful responsibility but one you alone can accept.
Sincerely, a voter.
720
@IfIhadaplaneIdflyabanner We have yet to see if Justice Roberts will preside over a fair trial. A trial without witnesses and documents is a sham. What will he do?
73
@IfIhadaplaneIdflyabanner "“I did nothing in particular, and I did it very well.”
The original quote is from an opera. No. 16: SONG (Lord Mountararat & Chorus) "When Britain really ruled the waves." Lolanthe by W. S. Gilbert and Arthur Sullivan
When Wellington thrashed Bonaparte,
As every child can tell,
The House of Peers, throughout the war,
Did nothing in particular,
And did it very well:
Yet Britain set the world ablaze
In good King George’s glorious days!
Yet Britain set the world ablaze
In good King George’s glorious days!
In an impeachment Trial, the Senate Rules governs. Chief Roberts is not supposed to interfere at all. Like in any contest, Roberts is the referee and enforces the rules established. Rules established by the Senate, not his.
21
@IfIhadaplaneIdflyabanner
I've written and said the same thing. Unfortunately, asking Roberts for help is pointless because he's one of the people we need to be protected *from*.
49
We need specific crimes for impeachment not vague accusations. We need a constitutional amendment to list crimes and behaviors that are impeachable. We need specific educational/ knowledge requirements for a person to be president. We need it to be a law that presidential candidates disclose financial information. We need a law that states specific behavioral standards for out elected officials. We need federally funded campaigns and to put an end to unlimited fundraising. Citizen's United needs to be repealed. We need to allow everyone to vote in the primaries, and for candidates to be able to participate in debates even if they are self-funded - which in my opinion is more desirable than a candidate that is beholden to donors.
12
@Marie I agree with most everything you said except for the part about specific crimes listed in a Constitutional amendment. It would be nearly impossible to get enough states to ratify an amendment, but also similarly impossible to enumerate crimes that would, for all intents and purposes, have to survive and be applicable forever. We can’t today, nor could the Founders do it 240 years ago, imagine every situation or technology that will come about in the future. The telegraph didn’t come out until 50+ years after the Constitution was signed and they probably couldn’t even fathom having a pocket computer that could make calls and also has encrypted messaging. Who knows what technology will be around 50 years from now. Or 150 years.
“High crimes and misdemeanors” was never meant to be about specific crimes but rather was purposely left vague so as to cover actions that constitute egregious breaches of public trust. Trump’s legal team is arguing precisely the opposite.
3
@Marie Trump and Mulvaney confessed on TV, and no, impeachment does not at all require a 'crime'. It seems like you are barely trying to grasp that which is obvious. Donald Trump used congressionally approved aid to Ukraine for leverage to get political gain against Mr Biden by having Zelensky announce an investigation. There, that is it, grasp it. And yes, what he, and his cronies did is wrong and illegal.
1
@Ben don't be so condescending. It is unlikely that he will be removed from office, and very likely that he will be reelected. He is a travesty, and we need to see to it that we don't ever have another Trump in office. We need to ensure that another Trump never gets elected.
1
I was not the one of the 81 Americans, presumably registered to vote asked about impeachment 2019.
I am an independent and I support Democratic values and the equal power sharing by the 3 branches of government. I am also very much in favor of checks and balances but without draconian restriction on the president and accountability to the tax payers, by all in government whether elected or not. I consider impeachment as a power struggle between the 2 parties in Washington. I repeat it was wrong to impeach Bill Clinton and it was dead wrong to impeach president Trump and it will be disastrous to remove him from office. At the same time to place on record what the Dem. party sees as wrong doing for people to decide not reelecting Trump if the voters so choose should be left to the voters only months away to elections 2020. I just heard Rep. Schiff (D) as the manager open the case for impeachment. It was a rehash of the proceedings in the house. It seemed a repetition as though the senators (jurors) never followed what happened in the house impeachment inquiry which went on for several days. The presidents legal defense team did not get a chance in the house of Reps. and so they should not have been given equal time as the House managers but given 4 times the time allotted to the managers. But may be Sen. McConnell was being generously fair in compromising.
Hopefully, there are lessons learned after this ends. Restrict foreign aid to humanitarian or military aid in kind.
4
@Girish Kotwal The issue IS that the Senators didn't pay attention to what happened in the House nor did they read Mueller's report. If McConnell was going to be fair he'd allow witnesses and he wouldn't have coordinated with the White House on the planned aquittle
4
@Girish Kotwal Wow. You've not been keeping up with the news nor do you know what you are talking about. There are several inaccuracies in your statement, and apparently you just come here to post and do not read. I suggest you try harder to be a good citizen, and keep up with what is actually going on.
2
@Girish Kotwal
The impeachment proceedings in the House were the legal and established equivalent of a grand jury. A grand jury hears the evidence gathered by the prosecution, hears witnesses to bolster that evidence, and hands down an indictment if the evidence supports it.
Since it's not a trial, but a prelude to a trial if the defendant is indicted, it's not necessary nor rational to hear a defense argument.
The Senate is where this indictment (impeachment) goes to trial, and the defendant will have every opportunity to mount a defense against it.
I'm not sure why I have to keep explaining this to so many people.
4
I don't understand why one of the articles of impeachment was not conducting foreign policy through agents not confirmed to do so by the Senate. Rudy Giuliani and his cohorts were loose cannonballs in a very explosive area. We have a Cabinet with a confirmation process for the position of Secretary of State. This is to keep foreign policy under the purview of Congress.
17
The insistence that Trump did nothing wrong is surprising when a non-partisan commission has concluded that withholding aid was illegal. But in some ways it misses the point that abuse of power doesn't have to be illegal to be a reason for removal from office.
Partisan politics is scary to me because if we allow this president to use foreign powers to mess with our elections, what's to stop any subsequent ones from the other party to do the same thing?
Just as impeachment shouldn't be used as a partisan tool, precedence set in motion by not acknowledging what was done will also come back to haunt our nation.
29
@Karl worse, the entire Republican party are now cohorts in the coverup, and so far, the conservative voters are perfectly fine with it. It is as though half of the nation has surrendered the idea of having an honorable President at all. Our democracy is well on it's way to a failure, and the Republican party is pushing it down, hard.
I guess this will get filed under the "yeah, buts," but I find it interesting that the Democrats are trying to impeach the President because Trump asked the Ukraine to restart the investigation into Hunter Biden, and allegedly threatened to withhold aid to Ukraine if they didn't. They did not do it. Yet no one seems bothered by Biden threatening to stop aid to the Ukraine unless they fire the prosecutor investigating his son. Which they DID do. So Biden is the only one who actually did use their office to obtain a personal benefit, as far as we know. And we know because he is said so on camera.
6
@B. Thyssen - no, this will get filed under "another apologist for Trump who knows nothing about the Constitution."
1
@B. Thyssen This is actually the opposite of what Biden did. Biden threatened to stop aid to Ukraine unless they fired the prosecutor (Shokin) who was *refusing* to investigate Burisma (which included Biden's son). I'm not a Biden supporter either but this argument is a complete fiction.
3
@B. Thyssen Biden didn't push for removal of the prosecutor because he was investigating his son. The prosecutor was generally seen as corrupt and the effort was on behalf of the US, not Biden himself.
4
Unfortunately, nothing here folks move on. Polarized politics means this will have to be settled in November. What happens in the Senate was decided when Muller made his confusing decision that seems a long time ago. Trump will be Trump till the election. Vote
7
@Richard G
Mueller's report was clear enough to impeach Trump except for Barr hijacking and misrepresenting it.
@Richard G Yes, "move on," while your democracy is liquified. That's what Americans are best at.
A censure would have had the same effect with less drama.
The president's party has a veto on removal of a president; the process is only useful for removing a president who has lost the support of the people and his party; that has not happened.
This is a pointless waste of time. Weeks of political drama where we already know the ending just decreases our respect for Congress. Democrats aren't going to win with drama and self-righteousness. Democrats won in 2018 running on policy issues. If the only issue in the 2020 election is Trump, they will lose to Trump. This trial, which amounts to a political ad for each party, is a bad start to the Democrat's campaign. It will cement the support of Trump's base and sway few independents. Trump would like nothing better than spend the time leading up to the election talking about nothing but himself. He wins that game.
1
@Tom Meadowcroft So just let him get away with everything because he "loves it"? What about our respect for the office of the president, which Trump has decimated?
1
If GOP Senators prevent witnesses and evidence, then all Democratic Senators and the House team must immediately walk-out and boycott this GOP fraud.
6
@McG
That would serve to speed things up, but I'm not sure how else it would improve the situation. The Democrats acted to start the impeachment process knowing this was coming. They could have investigated and censured to their heart's content, but they chose this path. "It's my party and I'll cry if I want to" isn't going to fix things now. Pelosi knew this 6 months ago, but her caucus forced her to impeach. This is where earnest self-righteousness leads.
@Tom Meadowcroft
and where does censure lead? Would that change Trumps behavior? I for one doubt it.
Instead, I think that is where optimism leads. Optimism that the at least a few GOP senators would see that unless Trump is stopped he'll keep going until the US democracy is destroyed.
1
This article terrifies me. The fact that so many voters don't understand that what Trump has done is wrong, is an attack on our very democracy itself, and really don't care is mystifying to me. How can they deny facts?
200
@Rachel Robinson I feel the same way. And I'm trying to find a way to excuse these people in the article, but am having trouble justifying that and so this article is frightening. Must be the lack of education and awareness of our government and the country at large.
8
@Rachel Robinson watch kolo and see the segment 2cents worth. You’ll understand relatively quickly
1
@Rachel Robinson The Rupert Murdoch propaganda machine is strong.
6
Americans used to have an MTV attention span. Now they have a twitter attention span.
102
@TD
I really don't like condescending, prejudicial posts about other nations.
1
@TD
Twitter voters vote for 140-character candidates like Sanders and Trump.
4
@Nikolaus : I'm American, and despite my long-read NYT and Guardian attention span, I think it's spot-on.
There is something radically wrong with a nation that elects djt *and* can't even cite the charges of his impeachment. I don't have a problem with someone in another nation wryly nothing that there's a big problem here.
7
I would like to see a correlation made between news source and the opinions given. Fox news followers, I would suggest, say there was a quid pro quo, but that's normal. I would hope that those who are informed and do not watch Fox would say there certainly was a quid pro quo, but if you don't now what the quid pro quo was for, you basically know nothing. The rest of the story, as it were, is that you cannot do a quid pro quo for your personal gain. Something that never seems to occur to Fox to mention.
8
@Sam Whitsitt
Oh, it's occurred to them plenty of times.
They CHOOSE to not report and leave things out.
From election night when he beat Clinton, Democrats have been calling for impeachment.
This is nothing but politics and it sickens me.
Just beat him in November and get on with it. This sham of an impeachment will ensure that every President elected in the future gets impeached, as long as the opposition party has the majority in the House.
7
No surprise - most people have little or no grasp of the facts, and feel no need to learn. Their opinions are worthless, except that they - unfortunately - vote.
42
This is why Senators and the President ought not be elected by popular vote.
A better structure of a representative democracy is needed, where at least the ignorant and prejudiced can be removed from Senate elections.
How members of the electoral college are chosen must also be designed with certaun checks on ignorance and prejudice.
5
@baetoven
Presidents aren’t elected by the popular vote now.
And how will you determine who is ignorant or prejudiced?
As a side note, I was struck by the fact that many respondents commented negatively about Trump's treatment of immigrants, but none of the responses printed in the article mentioned his treatment of women. I wonder if this is a reflection of the entire set of 81 responses, or if it was an editorial choice. Either way, I am reminded that actions I naively believed were disqualifying for a seeker of the presidency were not in 2016.
15
@Kathleen Ryan Honestly, misogyny and ageism are the last two acceptable prejudices.
When Mike Lee famously undercut Senator Bennett, he did it in part by traveling the length and breadth of the State of Utah, speaking at firesides where he choked up and shed tears of rage and sorrow at the unspeakable destruction of the sacred Constitution of the United States. That same Constitution that he's using to buff the dirt off from a dirty politician.
10
Pro-impeachment people’s answers are longer. For what it’s worth.
9
Well, this article was kind of a waste. A handful of comments expressing the more predictable extreme ends of the opinion chart reduced to sound bytes. I'm not sure what, if anything, was to be learned from this.
Of more interest would be to see the relationship between a person's grasp of the issue and their opinion on it. There's likely a correlation between understanding and having a considered opinion. (though that conclusion, in itself, is hardly news).
12
Quid Pro Quo is normal?! Trump used my tax dollars to pressure the Ukranians to help him personally in his next campaign.
This is NOT normal. There are campaign finance laws to prohibit this.......no matter how many times Fox News or these Trumpsters claim that it is normal and ok.
119
@Bridget: Republican defenses of Trump have been bad faith arguments from start to finish. Are quid pro quos in foreign policy normal? Sure, when they are done through official channels to achieve the policy goals of the United States. And when a quid pro quo involves subversion of the government to benefit the President personally it’s not normal, i.e.: wrong.
That distinction is not difficult to see but Republicans are determined to obscure it. Why do they do that? I think it’s because there is no good faith argument in Trump’s defense.
7
Lack of justice leads to rage McConnell. It always has and always will.
8
The President of the United States should stand as a Role Model for humanity, but I wouldn't trust philanderer Trump alone in the same room with my daughter. For half my daughter's life he's been cruel, cynical and corrupt, and almost every day I have to explain to her that what he's doing is not a proper way to behave. Trump's most egregious crime is that he's reduced the Presidency to being the office of insults, outrage and dis-unity, and in my opinion, that's reason enough to impeach.
29
"We asked 81 Americans Impeachment. Here is what they had to say"
I've read all of the for and against comments. I found it hard to understand those who are against Impeachment and those who believe Trump has done nothing wrong or what he has done doesn't rise to the level of Impeachment.
But, in the end, I still trust the American people will get it right. As a people we have put up with a lot of stuff from the politicians, but at some point in time the people speak with a loud voice that enough is enough. I believe that this will happen with Trump and his republican supporters who have ignored their Oaths Of Office to set up their votes to acquit.
7
@RetiredGuy
How I wish I had your faith in the American public but I don't. Too much Fox news and his supporters only listen to Fox. Not much thinking going on. He will win because he backs the 2nd amendment. His supporters do not understand the constraints being discussed on certain folks owning guns and assault weapons are not voiding the 2nd amendment.
1
If the senate had an actual trial, all evidence had been released, and there was no partisan television, but all Americans saw the trial on a PBS-like news station, trump would be out the door in a New York minute. McConnell knows this which is why he is doing everything to make the trial fast, with no documents or witnesses, and trying to stop continuous news coverage. The only way opinions will change is to have witnesses and documents, as we had in every other impeachment trial.
28
It's clear what he did. It's clear why he did it. What's not clear is whether or not this single act is impeachable. I suspect a good deal of Democratic hostility is for "the body of his work" rather than solely on his behavior with Ukraine. With the outcome pre-ordained, I just would rather focus on the Democratic primary races. It's not getting us any closer to the goal line of getting rid of him.
4
Well, this was depressing. Imagine how different the responses would be if we had properly funded our educational system for the past decades, and if the Fairness Doctrine had not been repealed by Reagan, which gave rise to right-wing propaganda media, most notably Fox News. I'd like to think that not only would the vast majority of American people see Trump's criminality to be as blatant as it is, but that Trump himself would never have found himself in the White House to begin with. The general indifference some people have toward politics is dispiriting, to say the least.
70
@Dominic The fairness doctrine MUST be reinstated. It's crucial to our democracy.
5
@Dominic : Imagine if, on the 1st day of 8th-grade civics class, the teacher asked, "Do you care about how much money you'll earn, and what portion will go to taxes? If yes, then you care about politics.
"Do you care about whether you can get married to the person you love, whether you'll be able to buy a house, whether you'll end up homeless, whether you'll be shipped off to fight in a foreign war and maybe suffer lifelong injuries or even be killed? If yes, then you care about politics.
"Have you ever been bullied by someone, or hit, or bothered by loud music when you were trying to sleep? If you want to be able to live your life with the ability to address even those problems, then you care about politics."
I think the students would pay attention. And I'd like to see it built on every day, with a look at the day's headlines and a discussion about current events. And I'd like to see civics taught in every school year from at least 8th grade.
Well, I can dream.
3
@Dominic
We have to stop blaming the teachers for this. The abolishment of the Fairness Doctrine- yes, the teachers- no. The elderly and boomers support republicans more than any other generation. How far back do we go on blaming teachers?
I didn't have much Civics class in junior or senior high school other than a little bit on parliamentary procedure and how a bill becomes law. Still I'm far from ignorant and well read on current events. These people are not necessarily uneducated. They are willfully ignorant. No amount of schooling would change that. You can't force someone to learn if they refuse. You can't force someone to believe the truth if they refuse. You can't educate willful ignorance out of people.
2
Trump supporters can support the president all they want. What I truly find hilarious are the people who believe that, at this point, they're doing the right thing by staying in the undecided middle ground. The enablers who do nothing in a time when standing for something becomes critical. Not that the rest of the world is necessarily better, but Americans are absolutely terrible at applying historical context to current events. Our economy and culture are so terrible that too many Americans are this level of disconnected from what matters in a democracy.
12
The Republicans seem to have admitted that Trump did what was alleged he did. This type of behavior used to be frowned on.
Today is different Leaders of Russia, Saudi Arabia and the US are much more brazen in their use of illegal methods to try an get their way.
Covert operations have taken a back seat to lets just do it. Putin, Trump and the Prince just do do nasty things out in the open.
11
Sadly, I have to come to the realization that a great segment of Americans are not educated enough to discern right from wrong. The result is that we now have Trump as president and this impeachment where the Republican side cannot come to terms with the obvious: that this is a corrupt president who should be removed from office.
34
@Rafael Banda The Southeastern portion of the US would like a word. They'd argue that because they go to church they automatically have morals, and by extension anyone they like has morals too. This is what got us here.
@Rafael Banda: No, the reality is worse than that. The problem isn’t being uneducated; it’s being unprincipled. They know wrong from right and just don’t care about wrongdoing as long as it benefits their side.
3
We remain in perfect harmony. Democrats are still Democrats, and Republicans remain Republicans, and never the tween shall meet.
It's gonna be one heckuva election night in November.
2
True right now it is about politics with no principles. But anyway, I think the impeachment and the hole congress investigation mechanism is too partisan. It feels this country less democratic and more one party structure like the Chinese Communist Party. I feel we are living a western version of the Chinese politics culture.
2
For the historians reading this in the future, let it be known that I did not support this president, that good people lived at this time that also did not support his administration, and that his supporters and the Republican Party members are justly considered traitors in your future time for a good reason. Just wanted it known for the record.
22
@PJ
Many of us are with you.
4
@PJ
I second that.
1
@PJ
Agreed.
1
I have a question for the people who believe the impeachment is in some form an exercise of pure partisan hatred?
Where is the evidence of exoneration? Describe for me the information that makes is clear Trump commit the acts of which he is accused?
I despise Trump and the way he is dismantling our democracy to be sure. However my view of the legitimacy of the impeachment is based on facts, evidence, and testimony by people who WITNESSED Trump's actions.
8
I read this article thinking it might give me hope that this impeachment proceeding would produce clarity, understanding and more perspective on what our country is going through right now.
I don't feel better. I feel angry at people who are still confused. I'm angry that my fellow Americans have bought into the persecution complex of a corrupt and incompetent president.
He's making claims about himself that he can't back up with evidence, and then making sure no one has access to the evidence.
I am so angry at his enablers that I can no longer digest the news.
1563
@JLC
There is little confusion. There is willful ignorance and active avoidance of the truth.
314
@JLC - I agree. I am also angry with the Senators who at the first opportunity violated the oath they took last week to be impartial by not allowing evidence to be presented and witnesses to be called. (though I understand that witnesses may still be called, I have no confidence in republicans ability to do the moral and right thing.
I think the consequences of that violation should be removal from the "jury".
195
@Lucy Cooke
What kind of self-described American looks at the effort to hold Trump responsible for his actions and concludes its a coup because it's just "typical of what goes on in Washington"? The kind of person who is allowing this corrupt person to tell them what to think. Shame on you for not digging deeper. Millions of Americans are angry that their fellow citizens seem to pay no mind to corruption so long as the president is doing their personal bidding. Trump is the president for you, but for the rest of us we will stick to higher standards. The anger won't subside with the next election.
153
I wonder how many people who think there is no evidence against Trump have read the call transcript? In the transcript Trump asks the leader of Ukraine to investigate Biden that is against the law, it is both bribery and and a violation of election law.
But hey, listen to Rush and Sean and they will tell you Trump is a victim.
14