Oct 06, 2019 · 75 comments
Gregor (BC Canada)
Follow up on all these personal stories, and continue with the concept. This sentence was written Aug 29 2021.
Alice Lodge (Australia)
A few times I tried to stop reading finding it too distressing and heartbreaking to contemplate as I sit comfortably at home imagining their ongoing suffering but I just had to find out how they manage to survive under these extremely horrifying situations. Through it all with loss of family, dire situations, many incapacitated and despite the inhumanity of it all, it was their indomitable spirit that came through to me as they daily struggle to survive. There must be some solutions somehow, anyhow, to bring some semblance of hope for these beleagered people.
OEF & Freedom’s Sentinel Veteran (NY)
I served a total of three years in Afghanistan. I saw their faces every day but I never heard stories like these during my deployments. This paints a different, deeper picture than anything else I’ve read about the Afghan people. I’m thankful for it and the reporters who put this together. I wish I had words that would bring the Afghans some hope, but all I can offer is my service. I believe I made a positive impact, albeit small. I hope I can go back and continue to make a positive impact for the future of Afghanistan.
Mark Nuckols (Moscow)
Sad and tragic. But the Taliban have the will to prevail, we do not, and neither do the majority of Afghans, who do not wish to live under the Taliban, but who are not willing to fight for a non-Taliban future. We need to leave Afghanistan to its fate.
Afghan American (Virginia)
@Mark Nuckols not willing to fight for a non-Taliban future? Please say that to the 13,000 Afghan men who died while fighting the Taliban. Or the women, referred to in this article, who continue to get up everyday and remain working or going to school despite the dangers they face.
A (Denver)
@Mark Nuckols Afghanis are fighting and dying right now for a better future. The main problem is that so many Afghanis have taken a fatalistic attitude over hope for a better future. Hard not to blame them but the Taliban win when there is no hope left because their message is simple- God is the answer and we represent that answer on Earth, live or die it is the same thing but while you live there is a certain order of existence. Hope for change can offer only uncertainty and more things can go wrong in the future compared to giving up and accepting fate. Those with some critical thinking understand the Taliban leaders aren't anymore content to accept fate than those they fight against and will do anything to achieve power even sacrifice their fellow Afghanis in the name of Islam which is only a robe covering greed and lust to control other people. Women are just the easy targets under the Taliban but they will come and kill or worse any who doesn't agree with them even when they are wrong because their only goal is being in charge.
Farqel (London)
Despite this excellent reporting, I can't understand why there are (reportedly) more than 130000 Afghan MEN making asylum claims in Europe, hanging around telling little more than lies for years while the Taliban has (supposedly) less than 30000 fighters. These sound like brave, resourceful people. So why do so many of these men assume they have the right to live wherever they choose in Europe? And where this huge number of men home in Afghanistan, would things be different? Will have to get answers elsewhere, most of these "men" in Europe can't be trusted.
Donald Luke (Tampa)
@Farqel Would you want to live there?
Tony G (Denver)
@Farqel Seems like their problems stem from outside forces, why should they be forced to die for others? Doesn't seem like the region even has the resources to feed its population. I mean would you let your kids starve to death?
Huda (New York)
Just heartbreaking. The biggest unanswered question here was, Why couldn't America beat the Taliban?
Bill (Upstate NY)
Tragic and powerful. The Afghan people trying to live their lives while being only pawns caught between various malicious factions caring not a fig for their welfare. Revealing and informative journalism. Thanks for this piece.
Chaudri the peacenik (Everywhere)
The Afghans who welcome the invasion were those already sold their souls to America or were those deluded by American propaganda. It was the American propaganda that had planted such ideas as: 'They will buy us cars and houses'.
Matt Polsky (White, New Jersey)
Despite the quality, rare, very sad look at the perspectives of everyday Afghans, there so much I don't understand, at the personal, social, economic, religious, policy levels. I couldn't imagine coping with, and moving on from, the loss of one family member, how is it possible to lose multiple members and still function? Has the U.S. learned anything useful from the decades of futility in case we're faced with this kind of thing again? Is there anyone in Afghanistan with a better idea of how to save their country? Others are: how does the Taliban continue to fund its efforts? Where do they get their guns? I assume from some of the comments from elements within Pakistan, but the latter is not a rich country. How can an economy work at all, where does food and other goods come from when people traveling from place to place can be beaten or killed at any time? How do some advocates of a religion continue to violate the humanistic themes within it and get away with it? And, finally, if peace negotiations between the Taliban and Americans does start up again, and it is necessary to sell out Afghan women again for the greater good, how can measures be built into an Agreement to phase this out as soon as possible? Trying also to find anything positive here, although maybe this article isn't the place. We're reminded that people are basically similar everywhere. Somehow they can find resilience. Their clothing is very attractive. And what we usually complain about is so trivial.
Chaudri the peacenik (Everywhere)
Mr Reyaz should be informed that America has after the Russian left, America withdrew TOTALLY, and imposed restrictions on Afghanistan. The under-construction buildings could not be finished.
SC (Midwest)
Thank you for this very powerful, sobering, wrenching and thought-provoking article. The photographs are amazing and speak volumes. And the oral histories are riveting and many of them tragic, recording as they do the loss of fathers, sons, brothers, sisters -- all casualties of long and costly wars in the region. Behind the stark facts, one senses that each interviewee could share a hundred stories that would tug at the heart strings and make one both despair and marvel at human beings' resilience and capacity for endurance. And the stories, very likely, would subtly and forever change the way one saw the world.
Humanist (San Francisco)
War and fighting to Afghans is like air and water for the rest. Practically all Muslim invasions in India were from Afghanistan. Only a few thousand Afghans ruled the entire Indian subcontinent for hundreds of years just because of their brutality. In those days swords could kill only in thousands then the West armed them with guns. Unfortunately for Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iran are their immediate neighbors.
Northstar5 (Los Angeles)
@Humanist Sorry, but you have no idea what you are talking about. Not sure what history books you've read, but what you are saying is false. And: the Afghans I know are accountants and pediatricians and journalists and professors and retail workers and bank tellers and engineers and college students. They do in fact need air and water, just like you do. And they don't want any fighting anywhere.
Douglas (Texas)
@Northstar5 Check out the Ghaznavid campaigns on the Indian Subcontinent, Mahmud of Ghazni. Sorry history doesn't jive with your feelings. They've been at war for 3000 years. Clearly not everyone there wants to fight and die in a war.
R. Anderson (South Carolina)
We are damned if we do, and damned if we don't. Having our troops in Afghanistan brings some stability to a turbulent region including radical, nuclear armed Pakistan which has been a haven for terrorists. But 18 years trying to secure a country riven by factions and costing us a trillion dollars in blood and treasure is too high a price if Afghanistan refuses to step up to defend itself and govern itself.
cynicalskeptic (Greater NY)
Afghanistan has been hell for 40 years. The Soviets invaded in 1979. US involvement in the region has hardly improved things. We overthrew the democratically elected government of Iran in 1953 and put in the Shah. When the Shah was overthrown by religious extremists (the only opposition left in Iran) we paid Iraq in a decade long war with Iran that killed millions. When the Soviets invaded Afghanistan to prop up a Communist government the US supported religious extremists in a decade long war to oust them. We did nothing to help rebuild the country when the Soviets left. Iraq invaded Kuwait to recover part of the costs of their war with Iran (fought at the behest of the US and Saudis) thinking they had US approval ('It's an Arab matter not a concern of the US ' we said when Hussein called Kuwait his 13th province). 'NO we didn't mean THAT' the US said while mustering troops in Saudi Arabia. The US invades Kuwait (because Kuwait doesn't have a real Army). We get Kuwait back in somewhat damaged condition and occupy part of Iraq (but not for long). We encourage a revolt in Iraq but do nothing. More people die. Bin Laden is mad at US infidels having been in Saudi Arabia. All the people we paid to fight the Soviets get mad at the US. It's not just Afghanistan.... add invading all of Iraq, trying to oust the Syrian government, Libya and more.
Annie (Northern California)
To be a pawn in someone else's chess game -- what a terrible fate.
Third.Coast (Earth)
Too much scrolling.
Shiva (AZ)
@Third.Coast Hilarious, if not so sad, that one could read this beautifully crafted and photographed tale of brave, tenacious people struggling each day to survive the deprivations visited upon them, and conclude that to do so required “too much scrolling”.
Third.Coast (Earth)
@Shiva Calm down. It’s probably better experienced in print rather than online where there is, indeed, too much scrolling required, especially on a phone. Now, go away.
Dave (Yucca Valley, California)
In the 1880s Rudyard Kipling wrote: "When you’re wounded and left on Afghanistan’s plains, and the women come out to cut up what remains, jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains and go to your gawd like a soldier." Grotesque and brutal yes; and not wishing to cast aspersions on the fine women of Afghanistan; but that's 139 years. Has a military historian ever determined a rough estimate for the total number of deaths in Afghanistan in say, 139 years?
Andersen (Denmark)
Fantastic article
RH (San Diego)
Having served in Afghanistan 2003-2004 with the First Provincial Reconstruction Team (PRT) initiative...the concept of providing security in the nearby urban areas and at the same time providing hearts and minds projects to sway the locals to western style democracy. I spent 44 months in the Balkans post Dayton Peace Accords in civil military type projects by many agencies to include the UN and ECHO..the European version of USAID. That said..at the tribal level and thru many shura meetings, it was so obvious to all..they only wanted substance..but, nothing in long term "occupation" or mutual integration of east meets west in terms of democracy. The thought of elections was abhorrent to most of the tribal leaders since power and position was the strength..and elections were "western" and not Islamic. Most of our small group traveled into Khost and Ghazni Provinces..I was responsible for tribal assessment(s) into whether the PRT initiative would succeed. My summation at the end of the tour was that more US/NATO involvement at local level would not be positive, but to provide "passive" support by retaining tribal power and influence, but a look towards the West. In the end, the locals wanted nothing from us..and with the continuing influence for Pakistan..the opportunity quickly was lost. Like Laos during the Vietnam War, Pakistan was the live line for supplies, weapons and money to fight ISAF. It looks like we lost!
Konyagi (Atlanta)
There is one country that has to take the primary responsibility of the suffering of the Afghan people. This is the Pakistani government. The military/ISI complex that has been ruling Pakistan for most of its existence gave birth to the Taliban and with US and Saudi funding has maintained it as its proxy in Afghanistan. Make no mistake about it, Pakistan will never allow a peaceful, democratic Afghanistan as its neighbor. For the simple reason that it would undermine the existence of the military/ISI complex. The billions that the US government has spent of its taxpayer money on Pakistan, has largely gone into the pockets of the Pakistani military generals and the ISI leadership. They live in palatial bungalows in Rawalpindi and elsewhere.
M Martínez (Miami)
This article should be read by all persons in the United Nations building in New York City. Afghans deserve peace. Nobody smiles in the splendid photographs. Why a little girl has to suffer the consequences of an endless war?
Hothouse Flower (USA)
Back in 2001 we swallowed the Kool Aid that we were fighting in Afghanistan because the Taliban was not cooperating in giving up Osama Bin Laden. Since Bin Laden has been sleeping with the fishes for several years now and we continue to be told one story and another by three administrations now. I am not at all sure why the United States is still there. Please explain the real reason we continue to occupy this country. I and I'm sure many other Americans would love to know.
Ramesh (Texas)
Many thanks to Fahim Abed, Fatima Faizi, Jim Huylebroek and everyone else who contributed to the publication of this article. I hope all of us see the basic humanity of Afganis. I pray peace and wisdom dawns on this region and its people.
LegalEagle (MA)
The Taliban by themselves could have been easily vanquished. It is the duplicitous Pakistan that have propped up the remnants of Taliban in their quest to regain influence over Afghanistan that is causing this unremitting mayhem. Their guerrilla jihadi tactics (encouraged by US when applied against the Soviets) may help Pakistan force US to also retreat hastily from Afghanistan but the culture of jihadi violence that Pakistan has espoused is already eating their civil society. Sadly the common Afghans are also going to pay the price when the Talibans return with their barbaric mindset.
Malek Towghi (Michigan, USA)
We, the Americans, conveniently and hypocritically forget that this tragic and destructive process was started by us (Carter Administration) in 1978 by and arming and supporting the Islamic fanatics, the so-called Mujahedeen. The Taliban were simply the younger generation of the Mujahedeen.
Helen Wheels (Portland Oregon)
Thank you for allowing us to hear the views of those who live there.
Barbara Byron (Fort Lauderdale)
@Helen Wheels I am also grateful that the comments expressed in the article were uncensored and honest. Many conflicting views were expressed reflecting the quandary of life in Afghanistan. In addition, the scrolling design of this article as the years, photos and comments rolled by was magnificent!
John (Tennessee)
as usual, politicians and religious zealots start wars, and the average person who just wants to be left alone ultimately pay for them.
Steve (Maryland)
"Despite all these fears, we keep going." Does this statement not accurately sum up the fate of all Afghani's? 18 years of continuing death and destruction and no real advancement of peace or understanding. The hopelessness that permeates this article is beyond depressing and the TALIBAN forces are at the root of it. This article simply emphasize the futility. Trump is not the right person to be negotiating and it appears no one else is either. The fate of Afghanistan is not America's alone to decide: it is the whole worlds.
Ali (Houston, TX)
Great article that shows the plight of Afghan people and all the contradictions inherent in it. As a side note, to all those who claim "we should have never been there" or that "we should just leave" and let Afghans sort this out are missing the point. Americans soldiers may not be there, but American policies will continue to impact people's lives. For example, as an American your 401K is probably invested in an energy/technology firm that has a vested interest in the political geography of that region. So also consider that dimension when you drive your SUV, check your investment portfolio or crank down your AC.
frank (Denmark)
The mayhem in Afghanistan started with the Soviet invasion in 1979 which overturned a stable backwards feudal society, typical for the region. USA did not create the huge mess in Afghanistan, a notoriously unruly country, the Soviet Union did.
Srini (Texas)
@frank But America armed the Mujahadeen during the Soviet occupation and those same people turned into Taliban and Al-Qaeda after the Soviets left and fought the Americans. There's plenty of blame to go around and plenty of graves of white invaders (beginning with the British) to teach us all a lesson. Will we learn it?
seattle expat (seattle)
@frank But the US supported the Taliban and gave them anti-aircraft missiles.
JustMe (USA)
@frank With respect, the US has always needed an enemy to fuel our need for power, control, and the world's reserve of oil.
HistoryRhymes (NJ)
It's more like 40 years, at the minimum, to the Russian invasion. Afghanistan has been mired in war against outside powers and war with itself for a long, long time, with no end in sight.
tim kimball (corrales, nm [albuquerque])
i served a full tour in rvn 1967-68 and the accounts seem the same as the people there would have written then... i don't want the usa doing this. end this war. leave these people alone.
Richard (Albany, New York)
@tim kimball Good advice prior to the conflict, but don’t we have some responsibility now?
dre (NYC)
Great reporting. Some added perspective: Afghanistan had been in a state of almost constant war for 20 yrs even before the US invaded. In 1979, a year after a coup, the Soviet army invaded to support their communist gov. It fought a resistance movement - known as the mujahideen - that was supported by the US, Pakistan & Saudi Arabia. In 1989, Soviet troops withdrew but the civil war continued. In the chaos that followed, the Taliban sprang up. They first rose to prominence in the border area of N Pakistan and SW Afghanistan in 1994. They promised to fight corruption & improve security and, at that time, many Afghans were tired of the excesses of the mujahideen. It's thought the Taliban first appeared in religious schools, funded by Saudi Arabia, which preached a hardline form of Islam. They enforced their version of Sharia, & introduced brutal punishments & executions. Women had to wear the full burka. No TV, music...or girls' education. And because the Taliban gave shelter to militants from the al-Qaeda group, it made them an immediate target for an attack by US and allied forces in the wake of 9/11. Why has the war lasted so long. Many reasons: US arrogance, fierce Taliban resistance, the limitations of Afghan forces and governance. As US forces withdrew, Afghan forces left were easily overwhelmed by the Taliban & tribal divisions. And the Taliban have repeatedly been able to regroup by living in Pakistan. It's heartbreaking. How will unity and peace ever come.
Rob (AZ)
Moving. Although the Pakistani militry is perhaps singularly responsible for all this strife, I am surprised not a single mention of them!
Tom ,Retired Florida Junkman (Florida)
James Michener wrote of the Afghani's that if they preceive you have dishonored them, or their family, that they would fight you to the death. There was no truce, no withdrawing the battle was to the death. Nothing has changed since the 1960's in Afghanistan, actually very little has changed in the last thousand years in Afghanistan. Women are still considered chattel and under the ownership of a male. Homosexuality is treated brutally, as are any social deviations in a society strictly structured towards men, and more specifically men with guns, big guns. The landscape of Afghanistan is littered with the bones of the invading armies of the past millennia . There is nothing there for US except death, and more death, time to come home.
Paul Ruszczyk (Cheshire, CT)
"Bloody Battle In Afghanistan." This was a comment written by Herman Melville in "Moby Dick" in 1850. There has been nothing but constant war in that country for hundreds of years.
David Trotman (San Francisco)
What will be Afghanistan's the equivalent picture for Vietnam's photo of the helicopter atop the building? You know, the one with the people making their way up the ladder. At least the little Vienamese girl running down the road with her clothiing burnt away made it to Canada. Do you think any of the people quoted in the article will make the last flight out of Kabul?
Michael (Virginia)
Lawlessness. Cruelty. Suffering. This is what my nation, the United States of America, has wrought upon Afghanistan, utterly without justification. I hang my head in shame.
Erskine (Muscoy)
@Michael The USA has not fought a legally-declared Constitutional war since WWII.
Ella (NY)
This is the extraordinary coverage that makes the Times a great paper.
Hannah C (NJ)
Beautiful article, but what it doesn't touch on is American involvement in Afghanistan long before the 1980s. The Americans were involved in creating the Taliban - we armed them against the Soviets. Not addressing this history allows people to argue, as they are doing in this comment section that, "we never should have gotten involved there, fighting has been going on for centuries," almost as if there is something different and violent about the Afghan people that no enlightened American could fix. We (Americans) helped create instability in the region in the 1970s with our proxy wars with the Soviet Union and we continue to not learn from our mistakes.
Gita (Tacoma)
@Hannah C : Thought we armed the mujahideen to kick out the Russians, with Stinger missiles and all. The Taliban, mostly Pashtun and tyrannically religious, emerged before we sent troops into AFG in 2001. Don't have an easy answer as to how to deal with the acute bloodshed and our current involvement there, but we did spend billions of US taxpayer funds trying to bring that country out of poverty and feudalism. However, it takes more than 18 years to overcome millennia of infighting, fiefdoms, and illiteracy for the masses.
LINDA (California)
Politics aside, I wish we had never gotten involved in the Middle East. War, based on religious differences, has been going on for centuries there and it was a false hope to install a “democracy” in a country whose institutions and basic culture are based on religion. My heart breaks for the Afghani people who so want peace, but sadly whether we (the US) stay or go, it looks like they will never achieve it.
Lauren Harris (Jackson, WY)
This is an incredible piece of journalism. I can only imagine how many stories and photos were collected that didn't make it into the final piece. I think an overwhelming number of U.S. citizens have written off the Afghan war because of how long it's been going on, it has become the white noise of the middle east. We fail to recognize the intricacies and consequences of almost two decades of involvement that have spanned across three presidencies. Thank you for working so hard to tell the stories that matter and to make it harder to look away.
Taylor (South Carolina)
Thank you for always bringing exceptional journalism. Several family members spent time in Afghanistan and this sheds light on the experience they speak of. Such a sad story of a beautiful country and people.
Len (Pennsylvania)
Thank you for an excellent article. While it was depressing to read it, I forced myself. After 18 years of our involvement, it is so easy to just not think about the war there unless you have a son or a daughter in the military. But with less than 1% of the families affected by loved ones serving, the war in Afghanistan has taken a back seat. We should never have set foot there. We will never be able to resolve conflicts in that part of the world that have been going on for centuries.
Mimi (Baltimore and Manhattan)
@Len What are you talking about? Conflicts that have been going on for centuries? Nonsense. Afghanistan was a target of British wars and colonialism from 1830s to 1919 when it won independence. The Kingdom of Afghanistan fought the Soviets for ten years from 1979-1989 and since then civil war has plagued the country until 2001 when Osama bin Laden attacked us on 9/11. Since then, we are as much at fault as the British and the Soviet Union for the state of this nation. After 18 years, it's worse off than when we invaded.
Len (Pennsylvania)
@Mimi I was speaking in a broader context about our involvement in the Middle East, not the narrow viewpoint of Afghanistan that you refer to in your pejorative post. From an archival article in the NY Times: "Some of the first steps the American occupation authority took in 2003 are blamed by critics for igniting the Sunni-led insurgency: disbanding the Iraqi Army and purging members of the former ruling Baath Party from government and public life. Yet, the conflict between the Sunni Arabs and the Shiites is at its heart a deeply existential one: rarely since the Sunni-Shiite sectarian split in the 7th century have Shiite Arabs ever held any significant power, and many Sunni Arabs today regard the rise of the Iraqi Shiites as an upheaval of the proper Islamic order. Eighty to 90 percent of the world's Muslims are estimated to be Sunnis; demography and history have always favored the Sunnis."
Mimi (Baltimore and Manhattan)
@Len Yes, there is a divide between the Sunnis and Shiites but there were no wars or battles between them. The reason this theological difference became grounds for aggression is the breakup of the Ottoman Empire by the British into the nations we now call the Middle East. Namely, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, Jordan, Syria, etc. (not Iran which was Persia for centuries) - based on distribution of oil wealth to the various western nations of WWI. I.e. Britain and the rest of the western nations drew lines with no regard to religious alignment and the puppet leaders chosen by the west were dictators. Saddam Hussein was a Sunni but millions of Iraqis were Shiite. Saudi Arabia is Sunni but a sizable number of laborers are Shiite. Then Britain had to add Israel to the table! The reason the Middle East is such a mess can be laid at the feet of oil grubbing greedy western nations including America. It's political power and an attempt at realigning what was a phony drawing of borders in 1918 and 1945 when the British Empire collapsed. The Shiite/Sunni divide is a red herring.
Mike G. (W. Des Moines, IA)
I served in Helmand in 2011 and again in 2012-2013. This oral history perfectly captures the tragic reality of everything I felt and observed during the 13 or so months I spent there. Recently, there has been a lot of bluster about "civil war" coming to the US. Well, this is what civil war looks like. I hope so much that in my lifetime the Afghan people find peace.
Scott (Italy)
Thank you so much for bringing this oral history to all of us, it is truly remarkable. It is terribly sad to contemplate that few in the USA understand at any level, let alone have a deep understanding of, what we wished to accomplish and what we have accomplished there, in this the longest war in our country's history. To think that the youngest US service members being sent there now were not even born on 9/11/01 is mind-boggling. I wonder if the equivalent amount of money spent on destruction, spent instead on peaceful operations such as schools and transportation and markets, would have accomplished much much more.
B Samuels (Washington, DC)
Fantastic coverage and diverse perspectives of a complicated and intractable war.
AWENSHOK (HOUSTON)
Well done! I am hopeful that the US will not abandon the Afghans. Maybe when we have a real president, things will improve.
Food Guy (Boston)
Thank you for this article! I wish there were a way to make this more visible to the general public, so there be an understanding of what the consequences are of U.S. foreign policy.
James (US)
@Food Guy Why blame the US for going after the folks that were harboring and protected Bin laden?
Maciej (Poland)
@James You might be astonished to learn that the USA actually helped create the Taliban power and for quite a while Bin Laden too. Try "Ghost Wars" by Steve Coll - recommended reading.
Donald Luke (Tampa)
@James Bin Laden had left the country.
Brian (Santo Domingo)
Excellent piece and photos. I lived 4 years in Kabul outside the "wire" in the local economy and fell in love with the Afghan people. As long as there are people willing to become suicide bombers and people willing to use them, peace and tranquility is a remote possibility. Ultimately Afghans need to renounce violence against each other.
Michael Marsh (Maine)
A sobering report. There seem to be no good options for the Afghan people. It seems difficult to believe that the Taliban is having so much success against the US forces and the Afghan military. Who is supporting them? Where do they get their weapons?
Bill (Belle Harbour, New York)
@Michael Marsh The CIA?
seattle expat (seattle)
@Michael Marsh Financial support is presumed to come from individuals in our ally, Saudi Arabia.
Peter (Valle de Angeles)
I would like to ask these two reporters, who risked their lives for this piece, what is even one thing they would ask of us, of our government. How else will we truly thank them, and those whose stories may yet cost them their lives. It should no longer be enough that we are just informed readers.