Ross, here's a lesson in mathematics. Give me an example of a null set. The answer is "principled Republican Senators." The only way they will vote for impeachment is (1) an attempt to hold on to their own seat, or (2) that Pence or Haley or some other very conservative person can keep the gerrymandered Senate intact and the Electoral College minority of voters delivering the White House to the Kleptocracy. Here's another lesson in mathematics. Another example of the null set is the regular conservative op-ed writers of the NYT who are willing to honestly face the travesty they have promoted. Yes, you're one of the people who could be in that set but are not.
Make no mistake, Trump, and those who do his bidding, are deserving of intense scrutiny, and trial, and conviction, if warranted. The GOP congress is not entitled to a reset button as suggested by this author. They need to get their “heinies” handed to them in the next, and subsequent election cycles. I have never seen a more undeserving bunch in my life! It will be a pleasure that they become mariginalized.
He who dreams the GOP will oppose DJT is floating in Lotus Land.
What has DJT done that has not advanced Republican agendas as efficaciously as any other partisan President - puppet or not? Though he speaks not so suavely as the authors of the Federalist Papers, he's getting the job done. Better just relax in the mud wallow for the next few years, Ross. Even if proclaimed President-for-Life, he's still mortal. After DJT, take a shower, clean up, gaze out upon an America completely dominated by Republican aspirations toward the Fourth Reich and the New Inquisition. You've worked for it, you've earned it, you deserve it. You'll be writing essays of endorsement for J. Kushner or I. Trump for President. A Brave New World awaits you, Ross, all thanks to DJT.
If you didn’t already realize that Douthat has zero understanding of what it means to be principled, this column should drive that realization home. Only in the mind of a True Republican such as Ross would Republican Senators making the decision to vote for Trump’s conviction and removal, based solely on cold calculations of what is best for their political futures and pocketbooks, count as principled. Combine that with such alternate reality scenarios the one in which the Biden-Ukraine conspiracy theory is real and Clinton was a corrupt leader equal to Trump, and you have proof that Ross is either clinically detached from reality, or just another morals-free right-winger.
1
That exit was 3 years ago. Perhaps even 30 years ago. Anyone still drinking the koolaid might want to realize the taste of it before they reach the bottom of the punch bowl.
What distinguishes a Trumpist from a Republican to a younger voter like myself?
Nothing.
6
The Republican party has been deteriorating for a long time. They have had social policies which are restrictive and economic policies which were libertarian. Go figure? But now they even ejected their economic policies in favor of a money grab by the 1% , trillion dolla deficits, and trade wars. Iused to prefer Republican economic policy and Democratic social policy. They both favored a move towards freedom. Now the Republican party resembles something more resembling totalitarian Fascism. The Republican party has to be burned down and then reconstructed from the ground up by strong conservative thinkers like George Will.
2
So, for you one of the good things about impeaching Trump is preventing a Warren presidency?
1
Please, drop the terms "GOP" and "conservative" when referring to the sad remnants of the former Republican party. The Trump Party, or "TP" would be a more more appropriate label.
Trump followers in the House and Senate have no policies, plans or a party platform, other than to deal with whatever the Trump has on his mind on a particular day, and keep their mouths shut.
2
I've been saying this for more than a month. The Democrats should be holding meetings with key Republicans with this message: let's avoid the whole impeachment process. Republicans tell the president that he must resign for the good of the country. In return, the Republicans still have time to nominate a new candidate for 2020.
2
Unless more evidence of "high crimes" is unearthed, I do not think the President will be impeached based on what we know now. I do not think that moderate Democrats will vote to impeach unless more substantial evidence is found. That's 20 votes, more or less, and they are necessary to form a majority. I doubt that there will many Republicans who will crass over.
2
I don't know what happened to Republicans in the political world, but regular folks who are either liberal or conservative and either happy or sad when we have a Republican or a Democratic president in office; these people on the Trump side don't fit into one of those camps anymore. I can honestly say since Trump has been in office, I have rarely heard one coherent thought or explanation of why they support Trump. Even the politicians can't articulate the reasons. It all ends up dissolving into a hateful diatribe about Hillary or Obama or liberals, etc. I dont expect to agree with these people, but I would like to hear one non-abusive non-rant about why they stick with this guy. Some of the red states voting against their own interests without understanding of how government impacts their own lives - regurgitating the right wing talking points about no big government in their lives, etc...when they so often benefit from just that is a disturbing phenomenon (which didnt start with Trump) but it's difficult to accept this sad reality, lest some liberals get tagged as elitist know it alls. But it is like this with Trump too. So they liked the idea of a straight talking dude who isn't a career politician - ok, that appeals to me too on some level. But they got a rich, elitist, slippery narcissist with a level of entitlement I have rarely seen in my life. He uses the presidency for himself alone, even if illegal. Come on you guys - this can't be what you had in mind.
8
Sorry, Ross; it won't happen. First, and yes--the establishment GOP (or what's left of it) hates Trump. He hijacked a soft, solid way of life for pols who actually rule for the benefit of the donor-class--the folks who run the government and, in their view, the rest of the world. That's the only thing worth considering as the play unfolds. Will Trump be a worse prez, in their view, than Bernie or Liz? You know the answer.
But, Ross, if you want to talk Rome, take a good, hard look at the demise of the Republic. After 2,000 years it finally ran up on the shoals of money (too much in the wrong hands) and a Senate that went too easily for the kill against a man who had the support of the miserable masses. The issue that brought Caesar to power was "impeachment." The deal proposed to Julius was: come home, leave your troops behind, and we'll have a little trial and you'll be tossed off the Tarpian rock. Didn't work out so well, did it?
1
Sorry, Ross, but it'll take more than a finger bowl and some arch sneering to wash you clean of what the GOP is and might be, with or without Trump. He isn't a colossus that can be knocked down. He's a disease, and he goes deep into the marrow of Republican/Conservative thinking. But let's be clear: he isn't new. He isn't even unexpected.
Trump is what happens at the end of decades of intellectual rot, when you and your colleagues who made your living articulating the Right's thinking focused on lying about it to yourselves and rationalizing to the nation. You were one of the cognoscenti making excuses when the party of fiscal responsibility and balanced budgets blew up the deficit repeatedly. You were on the sopabox when the party of individual liberty and personal responsibility wanted to pass Constitutional amendments telling some people that the state should tell them who and how to love. When the party of prudent foreign policy...well, you know where this all goes, I suspect. You were there.
One reason for the sickness that guts the Right today is that you and your fellow pundits failed to protect it from its own lies and hubris. You were supposed to be the conscience, the rigor; and you became the toady, Orwell's Squealer on the GOP's Animal Farm, bending your talents to telling Conservatives that conservation of anything, including principle and mission, was really not necessary. You helped this to happen. You can't distance yourself from it now.
7
First of all, the abomination that is called the Republican Party of today has nothing to do with conservativism. Second the R party started to lose its way under Reagan, he of massive deficits and Iran/Contra. The party was going far right crazy well before Trump. Moscow Mitch ND crew were doing their best to destroy the government well before Trump showed up. I am not interested in what the R party will look like if Trump departs. I am only interested in their destruction and replacement. There is nothing to salvage there.
5
Yes! Maybe there will be 20 brave Republican Senators who realize that an impeachment trial and conviction would allow the country to move on from our current dysfunctional administration, if only to be let us breathe normally again and release us from the tyranny of the Tweeter in Chief. Sweet, blessed relief. At least we can dream
2
The Republican Party: tax cuts for the rich, jingoism, corruption, fear-mongering, racism and white privilege.
These “values” got you Trump, Ross, and are the future of a dying Republican Party. Try something else.
5
The “modern” GOO is a rotting carcass of greed, desperation, cowardice, bigotry and inhumanity. Burn it down.
5
The demolition of the GOP to which you refer ... is essential one way or another for our nation's survival. The party has devolved to a sad, twisted parody of its former self, barely resembling anything other than a destructive cult of rapacious zealots.
Conscionable Americans are praying that it happens sooner, much sooner ... than later.
1
I'm a flaming liberal but I always read Ross. This is your best column. There is an exit plan for the common good. There is a way for Republicans to salvage a modicum of dignity. If we all agree that we want this nightmare in the rear view, let's find a solution that works. The bellwether is Mitt Romney. He's shrewd, experienced, and he's positioning for this possibility. Can we, as a people, whatever stripe, survive a 2nd term of this abuse?
4
Ross, please look up 20th-century European history, specifically what happened to the French collaborators who fled to the Reich with the Germans in 1944. This is what today's GOP is...but there is nowhere to flee (unless the Trumps are apartment shopping in Moscow at this moment).
Mitt Romney (Mr. 47% "takers") protests too much, as his daughter Ronna McDaniel is the head of the RNC and is promising a scorched earth of TV and radio ads to prevent impeachment.
McConnell will not allow an impeachment vote in the Senate, so he's just as big a collaborator in treason as Quisling and Pierre Laval.
1
Given that all of us have been unsuccessful, and maybe a little too positive, in predicting the future with Trump, let's go dark.
He has said that those providing information to the whistle-blower committed treason and should be executed. He has suggested that he be given more time in office since the Democrats ruined his first several years. He has suggested that if he is not re-elected, then the election was rigged and he's not leaving.
I find it hard to believe that he goes peacefully. I think he'll try even harder to start a race war and to incite his followers, among whom are the NRA gun nuts, to "do something". I don't think they are any match for what I still believe is our professional law enforcement but I think it will be ugly. And I think he'll go into exile - Russia, Saudi Arabia, ? rather than face jail.
1
POPULIST BUGS, ACTIONS AND FATE:
Normal for populist bugs like Trump, they live on cracks they create by division (e.g.: racist chant "send her back"), holes in governance regulations (withdrawal from Paris climate agreement), law bypasses (the border wall, election interference), and loopholes in the governing system (stonewalling Congress, disclosing classified information, ....etc). The aim is clear, destruction of the democratic system, the main threat underlying the war between Liberal Democracy and Populism. While they are practicing this crook defiant tracks, they dig their ditch in a genius cunning way.
Impeach the populist bug through election times. ِAfter applying the insecticide diet, you need to practice the hard job, disinfection.
I can't read the individual articles in this "interactive" -- they just keep loading but never get there.
1
Why is Ukraine so important to Trump and Putin? It's at the heart of Trump-Russia, as I note here https://realcontextnews.com/how-cohens-and-manaforts-ukraine-ties-tell-the-deeper-story-of-trump-russia-and-the-mueller-probe/ Also, as Giuliani embarrasses himself over Ukraine and Biden, a look at Rudy's own shady ties to Ukraine and the Russian mafia https://realcontextnews.com/rudy-giulianis-kislin-connection-raises-issues-for-his-role-as-trumps-russia-lawyer-exclusive-analysis/ And with Trump using his official power as POTUS in conducting foreign policy to target Joe Biden, we may have his most explicit attempt to make govt into his own personal political tool for hurting his political enemies, part of a trend with him/GOP I note here https://realcontextnews.com/trump-gop-destroying-the-pillars-of-democracy/ On impeachment, I believe that Trump should have been impeached some time ago, but practical considerations make this issue much more complicated, as I noted before here https://realcontextnews.com/the-impeachment-of-donald-trump-russias-victory/ And let's not forget the main opening chapter in this whole saga, what I call the Russo-American Cyberwar of 2016. See the big-picture you haven't read about in my take here: https://realcontextnews.com/the-first-russo-american-cyberwar-how-obama-lost-putin-won-ensuring-a-trump-victory/ Trump telling the Russians in 2017 he wasn't concerned about election interference is grossly unacceptable after what happened.
The Republicans in the senate have only one purpose in life, and that is to remain a U.S. Senator. While I may not respect their impotence and cowardice, I do understand them. No matter what evidence is uncovered about Trump's treachery and malfeasance, they will not vote to impeach him. Even millionaires have mortagages, healthcare needs, and kids in graduate school. I get it. So, maybe they won't need to vote. Once the secret transcripts of Trump's phone conversations with Putin and MBS are revealed, and his tax returns are made public, the Republicans in the senate should quietly go to Pence or Pompeo and tell them to initiate proceedings to remove Trump from office via the 25th Amendment, or THEY will incur the wrath of the entire republican establishment. Mitch McConnell has to make one or two republicans that don't have to run for re-election throw themselves on the grenade for the entire party. The rest of the republicans in the senate can go home and run as Trump supporters having dodged the responsibility of having to either vote to support an obviously traitorous president, or vote to remove him. The republicans know that Trump cannot be allowed to beat an impeachment trial and serve a second term. This might give them a new start with Nikki Haley, or Marco Rubio in 2020. This is the only way they can preserve what is left of the Republican party, and undo some of the shame and embarrassment their kids must obviously feel toward them.
3
A forward thinking Republican Senator that is praying for the end of the Trump era and fearful of his name calling and demeaning tweets, should start talking it over with like minded colleagues. If they stick together and vote to remove him, it will all be over and they can actually start to get things done for the country, rather than tiptoeing around this volatile president. Wouldn’t that be a relief? Not just for them, but for the collective US. Now finding twenty brave ones is another story....
2
We've been waiting for somebody else to take care of our collective problem. Now Pelosi has decided that this is the best way forward given that the corruption is only getting worse. And there's a lot more going on than we seem to find out. This just has to be the tip of the iceberg of foreign influence in not only our elections but in our we are governed. And if you ever contact anyone in any other country, they will tell you in no uncertain terms that we must be nuts to take this kind of risk. They don't watch Fox. The world watches us. They're telling us that we had better fix this soon or the rest of the world will be speaking Russian or Chinese, while we hide behind our wall.
3
Or perhaps we can view this in another, simpler light.
Trump is about to be indicted for a selection of felonies and misdemeanors. He will face trial like any other accused criminal and if found guilty, he would face the consequences.
It looks like there will be a great deal of evidence to convict the man.
2
Keep in mind the Republicans in both the House and Senate stood with Nixon until the Tapes were revealed. Without the Tapes he would have survived and finished his term. It will take even greater evidence now for Republicans to repudiate Trump now given the extremes of today’s partisanship.
Just how bad is the situation in which we find ourselves today? Even you have had enough. Your opinion says it all.
The chickens may be coming home to roost.
What scares me the most is not Trump but the millions of Americans who idolize him.
6
The word Progressive has all but eclipsed Liberal. I wonder what will replace Conservative, a word now void of meaning.
6
Perhaps I'm tilting at windmills, but is it possible that a few GOP senators standing up for what is right could start an avalanche? A number of Republican pundits have said that as many as 30 or 35 GOP senators would vote to convict if it were a secret ballot. So, they are either cowards or sycophants. I wonder if it is really the wrath of the base that scares them so much or is it worse. Are they scared for the safety of their families and themselves from some irate white supremacist who might come after them. Perhaps this is the case. It would be an extraordinary profile in courage for a couple of them to really stand up and say that enough is enough. There have been and continue to be a vast plethora of abuses of power committed by this president. They have been in plain sight since his inauguration. I don't think that whatever is left of this social democratic republic will withstand another four years of this incompetent, inconsistent, ineffective and corrupt president. So, I urge GOP senators to stand up at this inflection point in history. Earn your profile in courage and start the avalanche of defections from this wannabe mobster president now. He can whine and brag all he wants, but if you show some courage, the vast majority of Americans will support you.
5
There is an epilogue to Mr Douhat's musings. Demographics and voter turnout. The end......
1
The voters turned out. They voted for Clinton. The Electoral College put Trump in office.
They didn’t turn out in the right places: Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania. They can’t make that mistake again next year
All the so-called rising stars are spineless opportunists. If they fail to speak up before it is convenient, they are all mere pretenders.
3
Yes, Ross, that would be an easy salvation for your party. I would gladly suffer 8 years of Bill Weld. Keep dreaming. Keep working on them.
3
The opening words "an intelligent Republican staffer" really made me want to read more! Is there such a person who unites intelligence and Republican affiliation?
5
Trump is not nearly as big a problem as the "Trumpism" that he has inspired and cultivated. He is providing the blueprints and playbook for Republican politicians and has conditioned Republican voters to want and expect his brand of immoral, disrespectful, ignorant bleatings and deceptions.
If the Democrats let him off on this incident, where he could not have been caught more red-handed, they will validate everything Trump did and said as president and will nurture Trumpism far into the future.
3
Republican Intelligence in political and social matters is moribund. That said, Republican style conservatism simply means slash and eliminate entitlements. That's all that's left after they've spent the money on tax cuts and crony bailouts. Going back to the 1930's when has a Republican majority lead in creating an entitlement? Oops, forgot. Republicans were a sponsor for Medicare Part D and curiously, the price of drugs has shot through the roof. The only thing Republicans excel at; lack of ethical and social conscience.
Anyone depending on the so-called "entitlement" voting for a Republican is a fool with a death wish.
1
What have republicans done that demonstrates an ideology other than personal gain? Denying climate change to the point of no return, cutting taxes on corporations that already pay NO taxes!! (unlike me, a wage earner, taxed to the last penny) trying to gut a genuine effort at health care for all, with the Romney compromise with insurance agencies, opening up our precious natural resources to exploitation, imprisoning children, waging unjust wars for oil -is that what republicans stand for?/Good god, lets get rid of republicans until the sun melts the earth.. What is YOUR fantasy of 'republican values' Douthat?? I really would like to know, and no evasiveness or harkening back to Reagan or Nixon - they were a l ONG time ago..
5
Douthat has the virtue of not trying to make up what actually was said during Trump's infamous call to Zelensky. Or try to make N. Pelosi's harried acquiescence to the Democrats stampede to get into a losing effort to remove Trump from office as act of courage. The argument seems to be that Trump is going to get killed in 2020 because of the abandonment of Trump by independents. But the Democrats don't want victory, they want total and absolute humiliation. McConnell's efforts to defeat Obama were sinister and racism certainly was a factor. With the Dems its the devastation of seeing an uber privileged lazy clown come in and win the electoral college. A monumental embarrassment that cannot be underestimated.
1
Keep punching Ross. Repeated body blows may yet bring some sanity and fight to the spineless republicans that inhabit this government.
2
When the CIA becomes the watchdog for democracy, we must admit that we live in an altered landscape. And so the obvious becomes the unavoidable: the Trump presidency is a test of the GOP, and perhaps it is THE test. As I went to bed on the election eve of 2016 I said to my wife and sons, "we will now see what the GOP is really made of." The mark left will cast a long shadow.
2
The consistent commentary in the press that the Senate would never vote for impeachment has been disturbing. We don't know. Thank you, Ross, for describing one scenario in which Republicans do the right thing.
2
If the Republicans do not vote for impeachment their party will go the way of the Whigs.
1
I am all for the impeachment of Trump. But the Republicans simply can't vote, barring some remarkable new evidence, to kick him out. They correctly fear retribution from the base, they have bent over so far in defense of the griffter in chief that their spines are no longer capable of returning to a upright position. In Watergate it took the tapes of Nixon admitting the crimes before the Republicans caved. You and I know he deserves the boot but it will take something stunning,his taxes or unedited tapes of his Putin talks to make the Republicans abandon their cowardice.
Bravo, Mr Douthat. Impeachment just might save conservatism. Hope the Republican senators follow Romney and my Nevada congressman.
1
I would encourage all Republican Senators to remember Ed Emmitt., they all know him.
For many years, Republican Ed was the Judge of Harris County, TX; while called a Judge, he was in actuality the Chief Administrator who ran the Harris County government, a bigger enterprise than the City of Houston.
He was great, but beaten in 2016, by a 28 year old neophyte Dem.
This happened for one reason...an anti-Trump vote. An over whelming number of voters voted a straight Dem ticket and cleaned out all the Republicans.
So, I say to all Republican Senators, remember Ed Emmitt.
2
If you want to know what the Republican Party stands for, you can study their responses to the problem of income and wealth disparity. They begin by using the value of welfare benefits to say: "see, if we add these as income, the disparity is much less," then they pivot and say that of course income disparity exists - it is what motivates excellence.
Starting with Reagan and the notion of tax cuts that stimulate growth, the Republican Party has demonstrated no interest at all in the nation's problems.
4
However this plays out, this is a refreshing counter point to all those naysayers who argue that impeachment is a pipedream because the Senate will never convict. Ross asks the pertinent question - impeachment would be worse than what?
This stands opposed by Bret Stephens' column of 9/26 on which HE asks "But what if the facts don’t vindicate that belief" (that the whistleblower report and 7/25 call transcript are finally strong enough reasons to act)?
I'd say to Bret (actually I said to Bret) that that's what delayed things so far. How will we ever know? What incontrovertible truth must be uncovered to offer one assurance that this is the correct action? Isn't this exactly what impeachment hearings are supposed to disclose?
Serious columnists can't be the Jeff Flake or Susan Collins of the media. Have never-Trumpers been taking a contrarian stance because they're hedging their bets or just to play devil's advocate? Were all of their concerns about Trump up to now just faux posturing?
C'mon everyone, it's time to get off the pot.
4
I'm 71, my mother is 91. We are very concerned about Trump. We both studied fascism and I gave lectures. Under Trump we are heading toward a fascist state. He has to be stopped. We don't like Pence who insists this is a Christian nation and no other religions need apply but we will take him hoping he will not win reelection. We have to save our country. And not elect a so called businessman again.
1
I love the decline of the Roman empire and Adam Sandler analogies (although not all Adam Sandler movies are terrible). For me it's Lord of the Rings, because the worst Republicans like snarling Lindsey Graham (Saroman) do not want to let go of the ring of power. The Ring has even swayed moderates like Susan Collins to confirm the lying Kavanaugh. The impeachment inquiry will be a heroic effort, but someone has to find that ring and throw it in the fire.
2
I am amused by Dothan's inclusion of Carlson in a hypothetical political scenario. Seriously? If that does not signify the total bankruptcy of the Republican Party, I don't know what does. A smart-alecky individual who started as a kind of "enfant terrible" of conservativism and who is now pretending to be a pundit while emitting opinions bereft of logic or foundation is hardly the person that Republicanism needs. What is true is that the majority of Republicans politicians are spiraling toward the blackhole of Trumpism.
5
Ross, you begin your essay by referring to "an intelligent Republican staffer." You have a habit of using oxymorons, one that needs to stop. (The last time I had to remind you of this was when you wrote of "conservative intellectuals." Obviously, that's an oxymoron, because being "intellectual" requires that you use an open mind to evaluate all available facts and evidence and only then draw conclusions. When you describe yourself as a "conservative," though, you are by starting from a particular position--that the old ways were the best--before you even begin to review facts and evidence. That's not what it means to be an intellectual, so "conservative intellectual is an oxymoron.) Anybody who could have imagined even for one second that Trump was fit to be president, or that working for him as a staffer was likely to do anything other than help him damage the country and damage yourself as a staffer must have been of very low intelligence. Indeed, there quite literally is not one single Republican stance on any issue at all that is anything other than destructive and stupid. (I'm referring, of course, to the Republican party and stances of the past couple of decades; once upon a time, before the civil rights era made it lose its mind, the R party still had some actual ideas, believed in democracy, and had some integrity. That R party has been dead for a long time.)
There are no intelligent Republican staffers, Ross, just as there are nowadays no intelligent Republicans.
4
How about getting rid of BOTH Trump and Pence making Nancy Pelosi President?
6
One must imagine political parties as mediators between elites who want freedom from taxation and regulation, and a populace, that wants a decent life with opportunities to work, educate their kids, and see a doctor when sick.
The job of the political parties is to lie to the populace about "policies" that will "help them" - so that it can organize an electoral majority to deliver the things the elites want.
The reason that politicians are scored so low is because a majority is n to this scam. They sense that pols are lying con men - and that is exactly their role in the system.
The GOP is the perfect example. They exist to transfer every last cent of wealth to their pay masters - economic elites. They gain an electoral majority by voicing the discontents of those who have already been taken for everything they are worth.
While many decent people have left the GOP, three groups remain: the economic elites who are succeeding in getting every last cent - not just from the wallets of ordinary people but everything that can be borrowed as well; the GOP party apparatciks and office holders who are getting paid for their service, and the stupidest, most poorly educaton and most resentful losers - too dumb to see that whatever they had left, which was not too much, has been taken from them in the last three years.
4
It's a little late for the remaining bought and paid for Republicans to grow a spine. Hate speech and false accusations are easier.
3
I'm trying to imagine how the "rising stars" of the Republican party, thoughtful keepers of the true conservative flame, make anything more of a Trump departure than a craven grab for their own "lite" version of what is now on such garish display. Face it, the tax bill, the Supreme Court, the erosion of regulatory oversight, environmental policy, immigration policy and the elevation of immediate economic concerns above all else are only slight exaggerations of ideas championed by conservatives since Nixon left us. Sorry, those ideas and policies define what conservatism, in it's gross political essence, looks like to this "radical leftist".
38
Why the Republicans chose to have Trump, a charlatan and huckster, represent their party is a question that will bear some study. The only thing worse than supporting him initially is continuing to support him, or trying to ignore what he as done as President.
The problem is that the goals of the Republicans are so misguided and so antiquated, so backward-looking, that only the foolishly misguided remain behind Trump, like sheep or some other mindless livestock.
But if he goals of the Republicans are to take the country back to the way they want to imagine they were? Make America Great Again??? Back to some time that the Republicans think was a happier time? Happier before there were any Blacks in the country? Before Blacks could actually vote? A happy time before women had equal rights? Back to when White men (and no others) were real men?
The answer is that Donald Trump, an evil liar and fraud, IS the leader you would want and need if you want IF you aim for delusional goals, and if you propose to take fools back to a past that never existed. He is the perfect leader and representative for delusional and evil goals and results. The Republican support for him is rooted in the delusions of the Republican party. This sad result is no accident, and not a sad quirk of fate.
3
Ukraine=Paula Jones
??=Monica Lewinsky
It is awful early to predict that in a few months, only Ukraine will concern us. Don’t forget how we first learned about Monica.
1
Ross,
Your worst nightmare and mine are that Trump survives impeachment. And for completely different reasons.
1
I believe the GOP has sold it's soul for a few votes. I could never again believe a word spoken by a republican, What a craven bunch of self serving, spinless cowards!
6
An interesting slant but what’s about the tens of millions in the Trump base? They rejected just about the full range of alternatives in 16. They would vote out every single. GOP “....traitor....” and, in fract, they might just vote to renominates him in 2020.
3
Am I alone in gasping, Tucker Carlson -- whuh???
Possible presidential candidate?
Can the world contain that much pain?
2
1) DEMOCRATS more radicalized?
2) Josh Hawley and Marco Rubio?
You lost me Ross.
2
Ross, you've never made more sense.
What could be more elite than a silver-spoon baby who never had to pay the piper for any misdeed? You act as if Trump were an aberration rather than a GOP double-down on the same arrogance that thought a Yale legacy admission could be trusted to run our foreign policy.
The Republican Party has become Dorian Gray. When you look at yourselves in the mirror, you see Ike and Dirksen and Ed Brooke. When the rest of us watch you walk unclothed down Fifth Avenue waving your constitutionally protected weapon of choice, all of you look just like Donald J. Trump.
I imagine that the lot of you are in the same position as the Roman Senate who placed the laurel on Commodus's head. You should all be deeply ashamed of yourselves rather than trying to see how far you can distance yourself from the miasma while still packing the court with antediluvian judges.
He is yours, Republicans.
5
"Ask an intelligent Republican staffer ... "
You lost me right there....
4
This is certainly a Republican fantasy. These are the folks who beat the drum for a cocked-up war in Iraq. The same folks who cheered when the Supreme Court made corporate donorship the speech of a person. The same folks who didn't denounce the "Swift Boat" tactics and sought to calm the far-right with Sarah Palin. The same folks who said nothing, absolutely nothing, when Mitch McConnell and John Boehner allowed our country to go into default for the first time. The same folks who sold their soul to Donald Trump. Ross, nuanced disingenuous hopes (?). Your father's GOP is dead.
Sad.
4
Everything Trump touches dies. I hope there are a few senators who consider this before embracing the defense of this terribly corrupt little man.
2
The Roman analogies are very apt, in that they describe a coup against the President for political expediency, very Roman indeed. But before you sharpen the knife you have hidden in your toga consider this, Trump was elected. The senators do not get to decide the president, the electorate do, and removing him for any reason beyond what the constitution has provided is itself an assault on our republic and its values and far more dangerous than Trump is or ever will be. Consider that as you swirl your wine and play with your finger bowl.
1
The Electoral College elected Trump, not the people. The people voted for Clinton. We would not be in this mess if not for the EC. It is outdated and must end.
1
Sharon,
You will never find a person more opposed to the EC than I. It is simply an unfair and unjust system in the modern world, which allows the tyranny of the minority to rule. We need a constitutional convention in addition to changing the EC.
But it will not happen. The country is too divided. So the Dems need to get their message out and if needed adjust it to bring more people in to the tent.
That is the only way they are going to make the EC irrelevant, by paying attention to the entire map and all the states.
Tough row to hoe for sure, but there will not be a change to the EC in any foreseeable future we can imagine.
3
Your reading of the constitution is troubling.
High crimes and misdemeanors, prosecuted by the house, convicted by the senate.
Which is what impeachment is, and it is stated as such in the Constitution, so I fail to see the coup.
1
Republicans are all in line behind Trump, Mr. Douthat. Even the ones who express reservations about the unhinged behaviour and chaotic administration will never, ever, get rid of him because they need that obnoxious, braying, racist white, Trumpian base. End of discussion.
2
Tucker Carlson? Really???? Out of the pan and into the fire with this one, another white nationalist racist cannot be even be a choice if you expect the Republicans to make any headway into the Democratic field.
1
We are truly through the looking glass. The only thing Trump is guilty of here is seeking vindication for the cocked up Russiagate charade and looking into it origins. Personally I'd rather have an elected President, even Trump, making the calls rather that a cabal of anonymous spooks. But hey, anything that is bad for Trump must be good right? That seems to be the thinking here. The gist of the whistle blower document is Trump and his loyalist are making an end run around us and our loyalist. He's digging in the wrong places with the wrong people and it's putting us in panic mode. And, yes, I think Trump is jealous that insiders like Clinton and Biden are able to play the game and make out like bandits while "breaking no laws" and getting a pass from the press and pat on the back from the public while he can't quite get it right, or even come close.
Can you please go a search online for this president's inaugural address, read it, and then tell us how you believe that he is even 1% of what he promised you he would be?
And if that proves difficult - finding something in the results of his tenure that even comes close to his promises - then could please ask yourself honestly why you still support him?
I am in most senses a liberal when it comes to policy and politics. But what I believe we are missing is not a liberal, but a genuine conservative to influence our body politic. These conservatives held in principle, although not always or maybe regularly not in action, that character matters, there are such things as facts and truth, and perception is not reality. The last of these is a philosophical point, normally not needed. But these are not normal times. Most of the work in epistemology, mind, physics, and knowledge, has been to debunk the idea that perception is reality. Post Kant we understood that
Isn't it utterly gobsmacking that pro-Trumpers ballyhoo Donald Trump as the most Pro-American president in our history? Isn't it odd that the red-capped MAGA hordes who voted for Trump in 2016 are flying high as trumpballoons over London?
The Democratic Left in America -- scorned and reviled by Donald Trump as "savages" -- are impeaching our worst president in American history. America and our allies (also scorned and reviled by Mr. Trump) hope that he and the maleficient destrouers of the G.O.P. will soon be gone. Won't we all rejoice?
6
Oh, but Ross, what you propose would involve reason, facts, etc., and who wants to go down that rabbit hole? For our friends at Faux News, no amount of debunking gets through the bunker.
2
This past 3 years, and the specter of Trump and his administration being elected , yet again, has to leave most moderate Republicans feeling rather ill. The narcissistic , at times delusional behavior that has been on display seems unprecedented for any elected official....much less a President. His initial appeal to the frustrated masses , as an “outie the usual political system” thinker was only half of the problem. His thoughts and actions are outside of any reasonable expectations for his position , and frankly outside reality. He doesn’t understand it and likely never will . The real threat is for the Republicans and a balance of ideas in this country politically. It is decision time...for Republicans . Continued support of Trump and his administration risks losing all all credibility for the Republicans. The result will be a lack of confidence and support for a moderate sensible agenda. Perhaps a rapid and overreaching swing to the left. Trump and his antics, will cost the moderate right all respectability as a side effect of this last 3 years. Republicans, not Democrat’s need to get real fast and take back control of the situation, or risk losing their voice as part of the balance of governance . Neglecting , or rationalizing the damage being done to their voice politically, and their agenda as a political entity , by this individual is no longer acceptable.
3
Many in the GOP would love to jump off the USS Trumptanic but are too afraid to take the leap. If he sinks he takes them down with him.
3
We can all thrill at remembering that the Titanic didn't have enough lifejackets and lifeboats for the number of people on board. Interesting parallel.
3
True, but we can all be assured in winning a few bucks if we bet on the following after-collision responses from the GOP. First, no male in the Republican Party will gallantly say, "women and children first." Rather, as their actions over the past several decades have shown, they will be pushing the women and children out of the lifeboats. Second, more than likely, once their male-filled lifeboats are safely in the water and far enough away from the rapidly sinking ship, they will start insisting in unison that the ship didn't hit an iceberg at all but that the sinking was somehow caused by the nefarious actions of the immigrants locked below deck in steerage. Third, the GOP inquiry into the disaster will blame the evil forces of the Democratic party, which so clearly--to all surviving members of the GOP--is a party of America haters that must be kept in check by a new GOP-led ICE Patrol.
1
"Well, maybe we can pretend he just isn't there." That's pretty much what the GOP has done since trump first reared out of his sewer manhole onto the public stage. Pretend he isn't dumber than snail slime. Pretend he isn't snail slime.
Pretend he's not nuts. Pretend he is an actual, authentic person and not a big, fat fake con.
Douthat's nonsense would be funny if it wasn't so stale. He writes as if trump took over the kicking, screaming GOP and all those angry, left-behind, largely older, white, males, the base. As if all those trump fans weren't groomed for years by GOP lies and ripe for the taking by a hate-filled zealot like trump.
The GOP has tried to explain trump before: trump was an aberration; different from more recognizable white, male, business-besotted republicans; could never be president; even if president, the GOP would shrug him off and do the right thing. Pretend he isn't there. And do nothing.
Trump's no different from any other hard-hearted, stingy, cruel republican on the wrong side of history. Even dumber, crazier and uglier, but GOP through and through.
The GOP can pretend all it wants. The world will one day have its revenge for the ruination of the office by trump.
4
Trump is not just a problem for the sad, weak-willed Republicans who put him in office but for all of us. This selfish group needs to think deeply and LONG about what they did and have been doing. Their ship has sunk and hopefully will rest on the bottom along with the evil stupid man they’ve supported. They are hardly the victims you’ve portrayed. I just pray it’s over soon but so the Repu
1
If Dems just lay out their program concretely on how it will benefit citizens' lives, they can let congress do impeachment hearings. This will actually increase optimism in the electorate.
Impeachment is not over-throw, coup, or revolution. It's a non- violent, lawful step by step procedure, debated and deliberated, with protections and rules.
A dilemma for some? Shakespeare's Hamlet has a famous soliloquy— “To Be Or Not To Be”--- his internal debate----apt for politicians of either party in 2019:
To Impeach or not to Impeach? That is the question.
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune (outrageous politics)
Or to take arms against our sea of troubles, and by opposing (impeaching) -- end them.
Or ...rather bear those ills we have than fly to others that we know not of? Aye, there's the rub! (it may get worse!)
Thus---Conscience makes cowards of us all.
Now caution, calculation and maybe fears of election backlash (exaggerated) make cowards of some. If Dems don’t go for impeachment of this guy-- who is a dangerous impostor president-- then even if a Dem is elected for 2020, the NEXT GOP swamp creature will be ready to swim up from the depths and try for power in the next campaign.
If the House lays out a convincing case, it will set a standard for our future. It may get us toward a better class of Republicans.
And it will impress the younger generation.
1
That $400 million in military aid was to help Ukraine defend itself from Putin aggression — 13,000 lives lost so far, 3000 civilians.
Withholding that aid to extort the new Ukrainian President to start working with Giuliani and Barr to dig fake dirt and then spew it through FaceBook in 2020 — for no other purpose than to advance Trump politically — that is worse than impeachable. In colluding, again, with Russia, to weaken Ukraine and get Trump campaign dirt for the effort — Trump is aiding Russia.
It is not merely illegal, it is lethal. It is treason.
Trump is lucky that all he will get is impeachment.
Barr and Giuliani could get a lot worse.
Most Trump voters did not really like Trump very much — they just dislike him less than they did Hillary.
Trump is not popular enough to survive this revelation of his true character.
3
So Trump throws Pence under the bus, and anyone and everyone else that isn't him. I just rewatched the GOD FATHER to see the portrayal of the indirect but totally unmistakable language used when a murder was ordered or the symbols and cultural understanding that left no doubt about what was wanted. Nobody is ever safe.
Trump doesn't have this level of sophistication. He is clumsy in his language and repeats himself over and over is slightly different ways. Which is exactly his undoing in this case. And most likely in these shielded Putin conversations or more likely where Trump is getting his marching orders.
Republican senators have an easy out by voting FOR impeachment. They get Trump unseated.... they get Pence in the seat (one of the most spineless and maleable of vice presidents ever, and they get to pick Pences replacement.. all while opening up a primary to actual really capable conservaitve candidates.
It they are too stuck on the ideology of supporting Trump no matter what.. then they deserve what they get over the coming years as all of Trumps crimes unfold in public disclosure and his political supporters are required to eat the rotten crow that he has forced down the republican throats.
1
Technically no to picking a replacement...
Seating a new VP requires a vote in BOTH the House and the Senate. The House can simply pull a Mitch McConnell and refuse to bring the matter up for a vote.
1
My message to Republican Senators
“Dark times lie ahead of us and there will be a time when we must choose between what is easy and what is right.”
—Dumbledore (aka Jk Rowling)
1
Republicans haven’t begun to pay for their cowardly support of trump.
If Moses and the Jews had to wander for 40 years, then republicans should get at least that much.
Remember if not for John McCain, they would have thrown 30 million Americans off their health insurance with no replacement while giving a budget busting tax cut to the 1%.
3
The artist formerly known as the "Republican Party," in its current incarnation, is an unholy congeries of debauched plutocrats, Evangelical hypocrites, science-denying fantasists, unalloyed racists, and to quote a phrase of their dear leader, "and some are good people."
Abandoning the sinking garbage scow that is the Trump Administration is necessary, but not sufficient, to bring about a Republican reformation.
3
Ross - What makes you think that if Trump is impeached and convicted that he won't still run in 2020 and be re-elected? There's nothing in the constitution that says an impeached president can't serve two terms. If he's removed from office his reactionary base will be even more energized and will very likely support their dear leader with even more fervor. Given the polarized state of American politics, it seems to me that the chaos of a second-term Trump administration is just as likely regardless of the outcome of any impeachment.
2
I don't think there is enough of them. I also think their numbers are dwindling. They can scream as loud as they want, but they can't vote twice.
If impeachment doesn't succeed this time, then let's fire up another round after the primary deadlines for Republicans. Restrict it to obstruction of Congress and other threats to our constitutional form of government. Let the Republicans in the Senate chew on that one. Then, maybe one more round, focusing on personal moneymaking and general venality from Trump and his family. Trump has provided a lot of material. Let's use it to educate the American public, at a minimum.
If Republicans can vote 53 times against Obamacare, Democrats can vote three or four times against Trump. If they present their case well and are disciplined, it will benefit them politically. In any case, Congress needs to develop more methods and tools to resist the imperial Presidency, even if it doesn't result in impeachment and conviction.
2
The US president shakedown of the president of a foreign country:
Who is OK with this?
This is an extremely obvious and clear violation of the Constitution.
The US simply can NOT let this stand. It is now purely a matter of principle, not political calculation. Every ruling class in every country on the planet knows what went down. Every GOP politician in the House and Senate knows what went down. AG Barr knows what went down. How is it possible that #45 is still in office?
3
Trump is NOT a conservative, fighting or otherwise. And no, Republicans are not going to lay on their swords or just because they’re too afraid of losing re-election and fear Trump’s wrath — without seeing that will happen to them in 2020 and afterward, anyway — but because the GOP is deeply split already. And they know to acknowledge that split by voting for Trump’s impeachment while others don’t will make them look very weak.
Republicans have continued to get away with putting party before country for 20 years now. Why would they stop now?
3
I've been drumming my fingers waiting for somebody to figure this out. In fact the silence has been so deafening that I figured that the fix has been in since Mitch spoke approvingly of the whistle blower. It's so simple really, like watching an infield shift in anticipation of a double play. It's a win-win-win situation. The Republicans get their party back, the Democrats take a truly amazing scalp, and Trump gets what he really always wanted, a network/marketing machine with himself at its center, sort of a cross between FOX and the Mickey Mouse Club.
1
Though he could be running his empire from jail, if New York has any say in it.
If the GOP has or had any principled Senators, where where they when Moscow Mitch refused to hold hearings on Judge Garland? Where were they when the Trump tax transferred wealth from the middle class to the already-rich, blowing up the deficit? Where are they now, that climate change is bearing down on us with considerable fury, and the Fossil Fuel Protection Agency is rolling back Obama's meager climate change mitigation policies? Why have they tried to eliminate the ACA without anything viable to replace it?
Why any decent person would support the GOP at this point is beyond me. Trump is just the most visible and disturbing symptom of a morally bankrupt party.
3
You really don't get it, Ross.
Donald J. Trump is not destroying either the Republican Party or whatever you think Conservatism is. Trump, in fact, is the last thing left holding together whatever the Republican Party and Conservatism are now, and can ever be. Why? Because what truly defines Republicans and Conservatives is party and ideology over country. Virtually no Republicans and no Conservatives have any loyalty to the United States of the current Constitution. In this, Trump is not unique in his disloyalty at all. And further, just like Trump, Republicans and Conservatives, much as they pay lip service to capitalism and competition, have no stomach for or intention to compete fairly, not for ideas, not for policy, not for power. Republicans and Conservatives, and the Evangelicals you're lashed to, love Trump for his ruthless devotion to power and winning at all costs.
You need to stop playing mind games about the bullpen of prospects for next GOP president. You haven't been paying attention to what's going on out at the rallies. And you should know better, Ross, being into that Father and Son thing as you are. The only person Republicans are going to nominate after Donald J. Trump goes is Donald J. Trump, Junior. Because, again, that's all that's left of what's holding together what's left of Republicans, Conservatives, and Evangelicals.
1
Thank you Ross,
You give me too much hope that the Republicans Senators will finally do their job and the Democrats will be sensible and moderate their most extreme impulses. ... that we could finally say, "that was crazy". I could almost start singing Loius Armstrong's "what a wonderful world".
It would be so comforting just to know that we would not have four more years of this madness. Watching from this side of the pond, it is like a bad dream where I'm watching a terrible train wreck in progress and shouting "Stop!", "Stop!" but knowing that fate is already sown.
1
Trump, or at least someone in his circle, will read this column and realize it’s not a completely irrational argument. A Mike Pence presidency is probably a heck of a better outcome than on unhinged 2nd term Trump.
That leaves Trump one single option for survival: Throw Pence under the Ukrainian bus, thus assuring no GOP senator will ever vote to impeach him if it means a Pelosi presidency.
Trump this week already suggested Pence should be asked about his own conversations with the Ukrainian president. If Pence is involved, Trump survives. Evil plan, but smart.
2
Agreed. I’m one of those waiting for the “O” in GOP to show up. The numerous internet feeds, podcasts, etc., the MAGA red cap crowd are being fed a steady diet of permission to vent their anger, by a man they still believe is a populist President, but in reality is only interested in himself, and financially advancing into the 1%, if the 1% of the world’s wealthiest club.
1
Ross I sympathize with your problem. You are trying to imagine a way out of the Trump trap. Even if the Democrats remove Trump by Impeaching him, it won't happen, the Republicans in the Senate will not give the dems the two thirds needed, you don't solve the problem. If the Dems win in 2020 you will still have a problem. Trump and his minions will promote a stabbed in the back program that will still manage to keep the control of your party firmly in hands of the Trump clan. Your only hope is that the Democrats wipe out your party in 2020 so totally that Trumps "winning" myth is wiped out. This probably isn't going to happen. The race will be tight, the republicans may hold the Senate even if they lose the presidency, and the Trump Party will still be running things. Face it, for at least the next decade, the Trump clan will control the Republican party and it will continue it's path towards a xenophobic kleptocracy. Win or lose in 2020, Trump will continue to purge all the never -trumpers out of the party. It's similar to what the Union movement had to deal with once the mob got their nose under the tent. Once they get control they don't let go.
1
After eight years of Bush/Cheney and their destructive administration, and now the Republicans enabling the gangster Trump, I'm done with their party. Won't be voting for them any more. Ever. Happily I live in California, where the Republican Party is well on the way to extinction.
5
President Zelensky created himself on Ukrainian tv. After centuries under the control of Russia and its nobility, then its commissars and then its oligarchs Zelensky created the schoolteacher turned politician that championed integrity and commitment to Western values that the Ukrainians voted for in 2019.
America in 2016 betrayed 240 years of democracy and evolution and elected a man of low degree to finally destroy the first attempt of Enlightenment democracy.
Zelensky was elected to give Ukraine a chance at a nation of real justice and where no one was above the law but the USA found a way to make Ukraine's new friends as amoral, ruthless and untrustworthy as its old masters.
My ancestors fled the Pale of Settlement a century and a half ago bringing with the tales of a savage and barbaric people in a barbaric and savage land.
I read Zelensky's Wikipedia story, he is not Ronald Reagan , he is no rat for hire, he is no script reader his character is one he created honest, loyal of unquestionable bravery and integrity. As much as I was disgusted with the USA for bringing Ronald Reagan to the White House and in 2016 a man without even a hint of the milk of human kindness I saw hope in the Ukraine's election of a man of genius and unquestioned integrity.
I sat shiva this week for a country I loved as everything it touches rots and decays. I shutter every time I hear Beyond the Pale because America is the new Pale where nobody can be trusted as the Cossacks ride again.
2
They say you can catch a monkey by placing a large, heavy jar in the jungle where monkeys live. The jar has a narrow neck and some tasty fruit monkeys like to eat, at the bottom inside the jar. A monkey comes along, sees the goodies in the jar, reaches in and grabs a handful, but the neck is too small for the monkey to get his hand out of the jar unless he lets go of the treats he’s holding. The jar is too heavy to lift, so the monkey is stuck and gets caught because he won’t let go of what he grabbed. Trump is like the monkey jar: the Republicans are realizing Trump is destroying their reputation and they don’t want to be caught in his corruption, but they can’t bring themselves to let go of the goodies.
3
My dear Cicero, you are far too optimistic about the fate that will await both you and the Republic, if the would-be emperor gains another term.
2
Mr Douthat ... you are behind the curve on all this. The NYT has already assumed the actuality of your scenario, i.e. 20 Republican votes for impeachment in the Senate, and has launched it's " hit job " on VP Mike Pence. I refer to a book review in this weekend's book section.
1
Ha! Ha! Ha! "Lordy," as James Comey would say, you can't make this stuff up.
If the RINOs and #Never/Trumpers somehow manage to convict Pres. Trump in the Senate, that would be the end of the GOP, at least as far as their grassroot-base is concerned.
1
Argentina, is what happens. Do not kid yourself.
Perhaps, like penguins clustered at the water's edge, one, then two then five and finally the entire 'CROOKERY' will jump
Doubt it, tho.
1
Anyone who remains on the train---whether that train runs four more years---must know that 1) at some point they will be thrown under the train or 2) looking at the only future job opening as a short gig on Dancing with the Stars---oh, forgot ---3) doing time in a federal prison.
1
The Republican Party has no future, post-Trump. What on earth do these charlatans stand for? Fiscal responsibility? Limited government? Balanced budgets? Free trade? International alliances? The vigilant protection of democratic principles, here and abroad? Civility? Truth? This party under their Fake President has, at last, been completely unmasked as a venal institution of white supremacy, ethnic hatred, misogyny, corporate/oligarchic ownership, environmental degradation, extremist jurisprudence, and habitual unpatriotic tendencies. It richly deserves an ignominious death, being led by a totally corrupt and criminal leader.
3
You broke it, you own it, Ross.
You knew what Trump was in 2016 -- a narcissistic, thrice-married dealmaker (ha!) who didn't like to have any record of his "deals" till they were concluded.
Now the detestable (not deplorable!) Donald will be convicted by his own words on those electronic records he hates so much. What irony!
And decent Republicans are left pleading to let the Donald twist slowly, slowly in the wind till a Dem wins the presidency and you can go back to attacking the other party, and not your own drunk-with-power leader and his colleagues.
You got what you wanted in 2016, Ross. Not sure why you think your latest wish should come true . . .
1
Tax cuts - check
Lower Immigration - ongoing
Deregulate the economy- check
Lower clean air and water protections - check
Kill climate change industries and initiatives - check
Pack courts with ultra conservatives - check
Sell off public lands - check
Privatize k-12 schools - ongoing
What's not for a republican to love, Ross? There's not a conservative alive today who still calls himself a republican that isn't thrilled with what their president has accomplished and is looking forward to finally killing Obamacare, repealing "entitlement" programs including SocialcSecurity, SNAP programs, Medicare, etc., during his second term. The Moscow Mitch Senate wil not vote to convict trump and, in fact, may not be allowed to vote on impeachment at all.
It may be tempting for some GOP Senators to pull the trigger and usher in the post-Trump era and I believe it would tak only one leader (not Romney) to start the ball rolling downhill if the two conditions precedent come into play:
(1) seeing the 2020 elections as winnable by another GOP nominee, i.e. Nikki Haley or Jon Huntsman, so that a broad GOP disaster will not likely occur; and
(2) better grounds for impeachment than what we now know from the Ukraine matter.
A look at 52 USC 30121 raises many legal questions:
1. Was there intent to solicit a thing "of value" or was the President just carrying out his constitutional duties and duties under the treaty with Ukraine?
2. Is a request, for a Head of State to "look into" allegations, a solicitation for something "of value" when such a request obviously contemplates a possible exoneration just as much as an indictment? Would an "exoneration result" have been something "of value" in an election?
3. What does "in connection with" an election mean? If the phone call occurred one day before Biden announced his candidacy, or one week before, would the request have been "in connection" with an election?
4. What does "election" mean? Does the statute only come into play upon Biden's nomination? And upon Trump's nomination? If not ,are all 15 Dems would be covered, their foreign dealings protected from investigation?
The republican party has been decimated by Trump. Power is addictive and Trump has offered his domestic and foreign allies the power to do whatever they want solely in exchange for their unwavering loyalty to him as the "chosen one", unwavering loyalty that Trump has purchased with the power of the presidency, his powers to endorse or condemn, sanction or not sanction, direct the resources of the US to you or away from you, and pardon or not pardon you. Clearly the most abusive use of the power of the presidency in the history of America - a tyranny which can be overthrown if we unite like 13 colonies once did with fearlessness and the principals that made America great.
3
Douthat is always concerned about morals and ethics and yet here he double talks. What are we to make of Lindsay Graham whose friendship with John McCain was perhaps understandable, McCain being a true patriot even when you disagreed with him.
What can a voter possibly conclude about Graham from Graham’s emotional support of Kavanaugh, a less than temperamentally appropriate Supreme Court candidate and now his just as fervent support and justification for a President who has violated the spirit of our laws, if not actually ignored them, for nearly three years. Beyond partisanship? Support of behavior characteristic of authoritarians is not democratic.
3
"I think these conservatives underestimate, as liberals did with Bill Clinton long ago, the advantages in jettisoning a corrupt leader."
The problem with this statement is that while he did indeed commit perjury over a non-issue, that only makes him stupid, not corrupt.
Please stop trying to sell us a Clinton comparison, when Nixon is the far better one. And even he pales in comparison to The Donald. The major difference between now and 1968 is the absence (so far) of Republicans with principles.
4
I have never read a better argument for re-electing Trump. Granted lots of people will suffer. As a gay Jew I will be one of them even though I’m thousands of miles away. But I have had enough of each and every one of these spineless, hateful, greedy GOPers.
Mr. Douthat, your party has been on this path since Eisenhower embraced Billy Graham and Goldwater took in the Dixiecrats. Your party has been the centre for hate in America since before I was born and has been on a steady trajectory towards Trump my entire life. I’ve read enough of the columns you’ve written over the years. You are part of it. Oh, you hide it under sentiments of “moderate conservatism", but you are a collaborator. You enable the evil policies and actions of your party.
So, I say, let’s all vote for Trump's re-election and bring Ross’ predictions home.
Trump is the GOPs monster. You made him, you own him. Now and forever. He is the essence of what Republicans stand for and he can never be disavowed. Conservatives are accessories to the worst that Trump and the GOP have done, and all for petty hollow political gains. We're the tax chiefs and judges worth the price? Trump is the anchor around the neck of American conservatives and They deserve to sink with him.
3
“. . . and then you’re just a few Republicans of principle away from 20.”
What wishful thinking based on everything we have witnessed over the last five years.
2
Oh, Ross, when will you ever understand that the degeneracy of the Republican Party led to Trump? It is not Trump who degenerated the GOP--The economic policies that benefit the donor elite alone; the racist dog whistles that rally the white supremacists behind conservative economic policy; the chickenhawk hootenannies with their tax-cut-in-a-time-of war deficits; the warmongering sissydom of stop loss gap; tax cut and borrow....The moral degeneracy of your politico-moral universe produced Trump. How can you possibly claim that more of you will produce less of Trump? The Republican Party needs to get back to its Whig roots if it wants to survive.
3
When will you and Libs/Dems ever understand that what led to Trump was their policies, as well as the GOP complicity in some cases, and the Lib/Dem culture wars. The Country is in a civil war that was not started by Trump but by Dem/Libs thinking "its their way or the highway" and refusing to accept that conservative policies and GOP governance are just as legitimate as their own, even when they disagree on substance. It is the lack of respect from Libs/Dems, and the gross negligence of the establishment to address the important issues facing the country that led to Trump: e.g.
-stupid, craven Iran, deal sending $trillons without Congress debate and vote;
-stupid, foolish, Paris Climate Treaty, committing $trillions without public or Congress debate and vote;
-failing to blunt China's dangerous rise in power and influence, done with our $$ and stolen IP;
-failing to force EU countries to pay more for their own defense.
-failing to enforce the borders and protect the Country against unchecked migration, thereby risking, inter alia, too-quick cultural changes that have already roiled all Europe.
(partial list).
The major dilemma facing conservatism is how they can win elections without the support of white nationalists. If they would jettison that part of their base they will lose and they know it. A morte RNC.
1
Two things strike me:
1- You can tell Trump’s guilt by his claim that it’s the Republican Party under attack, not his own corruption. His strategy it seems is to conflate himself as much as possible with the party and the country too!! He’s truly corrupt!
2- just reading the new article about Trump’s parallel private foreign policy with Guliani alongside the official government policy, it lays bare the sheer corruption, criminality, and selfishness of the man. It’s so striking his poor character.
This man is truly truly awful!!!
1
May I put this in another way? The only way Republicans save themselves from shame and their party from destruction is to get rid of Trump now. Surely, McConnell knows that, too. But we'll see if any of these weak, corrupt Republican fools is brave enough to stand up and say so. Right now, they're happy to watch a president commit treason.
2
'I don't want you to be hopeful. I want you to panic.' Greta Thunberg
5
99.9% of republicans have no interest in a 'new' republican party post-Trump that has to compete with democrats on a level playing field. They will ride or die with the current bunch of criminal republicans.
4
As you say, dream on. GOP Congressmen and Senators are strapped to Trump like Ahab to Moby Dick and will go down with him. As you say, they could untangle themselves but appear afraid of the electoral water while they stare into the abyss they're about to be taken deeply into.
Those of us on still on the ship should think hard about throwing them a rope when they try to come back up.
1
Trump is the archetypal Republican that Douthat his entire career to get to the presidency. Trump represents everything Republicans value: greed, immortality, racism, abject cruelty for the sake of cruelty, anti-intellectualism, fascism, and narcissism. Douthat should be cheering with every more egregious action of the ultimate Republican.
3
O.k., Ross, calm down. Stop hyperventilating. Sit, put your head down between your legs and breath deeply. Your shock at being so right, so Cassandra-like, may be overwhelming, but it is, for the hoi polloi, oddly soothing. You'll be o.k., Trump will not serve a second term.
1
How can you possibly, in your wildest dreams EVER equate what Bill Clinton did with Donald Trump's actions?
The mere idea is insane.
4
One would think Baylor, Kavanaugh and Jeffrey Epstein would make the columnist a little less judgemental when it comes to how people handle accusations of sexual misconduct but i guess politics will always come first.
1
When the senate trial comes, Mitch and his boys would sure seem to be in a very painful no win situation. Unless some miracle somehow reverses the course of this rapidly accelerating downward spiral for the party from this story, Bill Barr has a better chance of landing a job as a male stripper than Trump has of getting reelected.
Acquitting or convicting in the senate trial will both have extremely scary and unpredictable results for the party. I don't know if there's even a 5% chance of this happening, but If I was Mitch I'd be thinking about dangling a resignation offer with a Pence pardon soon. They still have a year to try and rebuild, senators in Trump districts won't have to risk political suicide by voting to throw him out, and Trump can go back hookers and golf for the rest of his crazy life.
1
"If I was Mitch I'd be thinking about dangling a resignation offer with a Pence pardon soon. "
If I were a Trump voter from the middle or lower economic classes I would feel that I were made a fool if that happened. I am sick of the wealthy escaping punishment for their crimes. Whether it be Jeffrey Epstein, Nixon, Trump, or the various less well known convicted people we hear about that use their wealth and power to escape the punishments usually reserved for the rest of us.
They won't. Just now, Jim Jordan is on CNN screaming at Jake Tapper about Hunter Biden getting paid and just plain gaslighting and lying about Trump's interactions with the Ukrainian PM. This is the party of Trump now. Get used to it.
Lovely sentiments here, but why no reference to Nero golfing while the world burns?
1
The GOP lacks the smarts to do the right thing and to toss this usurper aside. It's going to lead to a mess.
Brilliant! Love the imagery of the author swirling his wine, and adjusting his NeverTrump toga while considering what Republicans with any back bone (Republicans of old?) should do.
Way too early to project anything
I think the title of this "opinion" column says it all. It has nothing to do with the constitution. To Mr. Douthat and the NYT it's about getting rid of a president that the country elected that they just don't like.
1
Douthat thinks only in terms of politics and not what is right or wrong, just or immoral. Let Ken Starr win? The American people saw the Republican power grab in their ridiculous impeachment of Bill Clinton for lying about sex, not for high crimes and misdemeanors.
If today’s Republican Senators can’t put country before party to save our country from a brain addled con man that is colluding with foreign countries bent on our destruction then the Republican Party deserves the destruction it’s barreling towards.
2
If only, Ross. Someone please bring this nightmare to an end.
1
Well, thank heavens for Conservatives who stand on principle, huh?
Miscreants, beware!
1
The time for dipping fingers and adjusting togas is long past. Just ask Ece Temelkuran, author of “How to lose a Country in 7 Steps”.
1
Has anybody approached John Kelly to shed light on the stashed presidential phone conversations? He knows where they are, he knows what they say, and he could courageously become the John Dean surgeon who removes the cancer in the White House. He was represented to us as a great patriot. Now's his time.
1
I'll bet on the pig too.
1
It’s telling that Douthat is concerned only with “American conservatism.” It’s no longer hyperbolic to say that the American experiment in democracy and the rule of law is at stake. If Trump is permitted by the cowardice of Republican legislators, fearing the wrath of “the base,” to leverage American national security policy to game the election results, and manages to squeak out another electoral college victory, there in s no telling what four -or more- years of Trump misrule will bring. Further emboldened by an increasingly conservative activist majority Supreme Court; one that believes extreme partisan gerrymandering and ginned-up voter disenfranchisement falls within the definition of democracy, there may very well be no America left his wake.
My admonition to The Right, stop thinking about your electoral futures, stop thinking about what Trump means for American Conservatism, and start thinking about the America we leave behind for our children.
3
Ross is wrong about two things: If trump is re-elected it won't be a rotting hulk we have to wait four more years to end. No, the march to tyranny will accelerate,. Which leads to the 2nd thing: There won't be a 2024 election, at least one that even pretends to be fair and the 22nd Amendment will have been repealed, or, in true Trumpian fashion, simply ignored.
Fascism is upon us, Ross, spearheaded by Donald Trump, and only Impeachment can stop it, whether he survives it or not, because it will damage him SO much his only alternative to 2020 defeat will be drastic, like suspending the Constitution and declaring Martial Law on some "Reichstag Fire" pretext. And he WILL do that, as long as he knows the Senate won't convict him of ANY crime--which Acquittal will demonstrate.
Those 20 Senators need, somehow, to be shown, hopefully by their voters, that convicting Trump is IN their best interest. Sadly, I believe the last GOP Senator to put the nation before personal interest is under a gravestone labeled "John Sidney McCain III".
5
The girl begged to be allowed to marry that guy - so strong, so American - and finally got her way. But he turned out to be sooo embarrassing ... After all the fuss she had made, how could she then implore her elders to let her leave him?
3
This is going to fall on deaf ears. But maybe the real problem is with Mr. Douthat and others like him that think saying "conservative" three times and clicking their heels together always summons virtue.
Is Mr. Douthat's hyper-partisanship fundamentally different from Mr. Trump's? They are obviously different in tone. Mr. Trump's is more recently acquired. But in Mr. Douthat's writing I see the same presumption of partisan superiority that we saw when Brett Kavanaugh spent his Supreme Court nomination sniveling conspiracy theories as a defense against credible rape allegations. Are the Senators who voted to confirm Kavanaugh any better than Trump?
This "Conservatism" that Mr. Douthat and others wants to re-establish is just less crass than Mr. Trump's and not fundamentally better.
2
Why not push trump aside NOW and let Mitt Romney start building the Republican Party now? It would only take a few good men.
2
Overturning the 2016 election by impeaching and/or removing the US President on the flimsiest of grounds is no way forward for the GOP or this country. What the call transcript reflects is similar to what 3 Democrat US Senators recently did and much less troubling than what Hillary Clinton’s campaign did in paying for the Dossier created by a foreign national and much less troubling than what Joe Biden did. The good news for the GOP is that an impeachment inquiry will put these Dem actions front and center before the American people.
This is a sitting president doing these things. Not someone campaigning to become one. Also, please read the actual story of Joe Biden and Ukraine, instead of just making stuff up. We are all so tired of "alternative facts."
Their own terms? Surely you jest, Mr. Douthat. Everything about our current morass was caused by Republicans on their terms. They have a stranglehold over our democracy. It's all 'their' terms.
2
Bravo Ross! Your second paragraph should be engraved in Bronze for posterity. If only 20 gop Senators would take heed.!
1
Trump should never have been president - and that is the Democrat leadership fault.
That this investigation will take down Biden before it takes down Trump is a staggering strategy by the Democratic Leadership.
The problem with taking down Biden is that this will correlate to the Obama-Biden administration, which was the best selling point for any 2020 election strategy. Obama was the most capable Democratic politicians in generations. The "progressive" wing attack is mind boggling.
Obama was a charismatic and capable politician - while Warren, the beneficiary of Biden's downfall - is Hilary II. "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.". Ergo Trump 2020 (UGGHH)
People should focus on almost everybody but Republicans, the non-majority but through money enough to propagandize and get them into power. The majority who are non-corporate Democrats and Independents have a lot more to say about how to preserve this democratic republic, and we can have the power to save it if we VOTE all across the country (and not just the coasts). Let's go for it and leave the selfishly greedy oligarchs contained to play with themselves, with Trump having been simply contained through behavioral quarantine.
1
This is a very good idea but the GOP is simply too afraid of Trump TV to impeach him. The minute he is out of WH he will start his media business and will settle the score with everyone who crossed him.
1
“Radicalized Democrats” don’t want the same policies set forth by someone who is simply less vulgar. We don’t see Douthat’s hypothetical replacements as any better than Trump. Those “replacements” have cowered in the corner when they could have spoken up, opposed Trump and prevented the worst of his abuses.
Douthat and other “principled conservatives” are letting Democrats do their dirty work for them. Fortunately, we are up to the task. We’ve been fighting Trump a lot harder than they have. Don’t expect us to rid our country of this despicable person and then step aside so that someone who has values no better than his can take over.
2
Ross, the first shoe dropped when lord Reagan kicked off his presidential campaign and he went to Philadelphia, Mississippi.
From that time forward the Republican political, financial and pundit class covered their eyes, ears and mouth. From then you never had a policy you dared openly articulate once the wall came down so you became the party of "no" and made Trump the invetiable outcome. You have already passed too many offramps to wring your hands now and say "O my."
3
I assume Douthat wrote this flippant essay to goad “principled Republicans” into voting to impeach/convict Trump.
If he gets what he wants, a “principled conservative” to replace Trump, will that person care any more than Trump does about health care for old, sick, or disabled people? Kids? He didn’t introduce those bills to repeal the ACA and gut Medicaid; they did. Desperate people caged at our border and separated from their kids? Climate change? Gun violence? White supremacy? Do “principled Republicans” care about those things? If so, where have they been?
3
Yes, Mr. Douthat, to support impeachment on the Ukraine call is the best way for Republicans to pull the ripcord and pretend that, after all the previous shenanigans, they do still value lawfulness.
If they adhere to the old witch hunt mantra they’ll abandon all hope of being taken seriously by the rest of the world.
2
No doubt Mr. Douthat hasn't been to a solidly red state recently. Well, I've lived in one for nearly 50 years. And I can assure Mr. Douthat that the tens of millions who voted for Trump, who are still in lockstep with him, and who would do literally anything for him - are the only thing standing in the way of 23 Republican Senators doing the right thing and voting for his removal from office.
Pundits have claimed that the Republican Senate is terrified of Trump. Not true. They are, however, terrified of his base. They need every Trump vote to remain in office. And this is why none of them have come forward with even a shred of decency to support the impeachment hearings.
Republican Senators know that, as these impeachment proceedings continue, Trump will once again hold his mega-rallies. But this time, they'll be a bit different. Instead of asking his adoring hordes to tell him how great he is, he will be asking them to take up arms against the rest of us. He will tell them that those awful "libruls" want to try to take "their president" away from them. And he'll tell them it's time for them to begin exercising their "2nd Amendment solutions". And this is precisely why Republican Senators remain silent.
An extremely large, virulently racist minority in this country would have no qualms about targeting the rest of us, should "their president" urge them on. And this is why it will be decades before we will be rid of Trump's ugly influence.
5
Ross, casting yourself as a day dreaming Roman is apt, but you & your fellow Romans (the "true" conservatives, I assume?) live in parallel to the last days of Republic, not the decadence of fading Empire.
Because that's what's at stake here. The future of our Republic. Gone are the Howard Bakers & Lowell Weikers of Watergate; the Warren Rudmans of Iran-Contra, Republicans who put the country's good above politics.
The conservative carcass already rots astride the Trump colossus. The rot set in long ago & grew as Republicans vilified government in order to get elected. Conservative? Racking up trillions in debt? Unfunded unnecessary wars? Savaging the environment? That's conservative?
There are neither conservatives nor patriots left in the GOP. It must die.
Trump is the result of the rot, a monster of the GOP's creation, as is his base. Both result from 40 years of antigovernment rhetoric coupled with swindling of the middle class. Fueled by non-stop right-wing propaganda (courtesy Reagan's eliminating the Fairness Doctrine), the GOP has devolved into self-parody. Hilarious, were the stakes not so high and consequences so dire.
We can't depend on GOP senators finding courage - they won't. Our future depends on Democrats uncovering enough truth. When they think they're safe, GOP senators will turn on Trump like a pack of rabid dogs.
Long term, our only hope is Democrats winning across the board and re-empowering the middle class.
2
With all this tactical moves, political analyses of “what would work for whom” better, and strategic aligning, I suppose it may well be a waste of time and providing the American public the reason to resent the political elites even more.
How about taking a strong moral stand and fight for it? No one doubts that Trump is an immoral individual and there is an overwhelming evidence that he is politically and materially deeply corrupt.
Make the case Democrats, that is the right thing to do. Stop tip-toeing around, get united around the impeachment proceeding and the stronger you stand together the more Americans will support you.
1
Once Trump is gone, on what principles would a restored Republican Party be built? And who would make up its membership?
With the camouflage of family values and fiscal responsibility stripped away, what’s left is a party that supports racism, sexism, and religious bigotry, that strips nature of its few protections, actively promotes the climate crisis, and follows a leader who uses the US government to promote his own economic interests.
Are those the core values of its supporters? if Trump is gone, who will take his place? I hope it’s someone who is no worse and no smarter.
2
If Trump loses in 2020 or is removed from office the GOP, if they behave constitutionally instead of sycophantly, have a chance for redemption. The Dem nominee seekers are so unappealing that a Republican could have a chance to become president in 2020 or beyond with a good candidate. Conservatism is not dead, only Trumpism.
1
eye of the beholder and all that. I, an independent, think the democrats have a great field.
1
I can't believe the fate of this country is in the hands of a bunch of Rep Senators, who are mostly out for themselves.
2
There may come a day when conservative pundits finally give up the fantasy that the Republican Party will locate its backbone and moral compass, but that day apparently has not yet arrived. Switch teams, Ross. Stop waiting for the Easter Bunny to arrive.
2
I wonder how history will judge Mitch McConnell, Lindsey Graham, Jim Jordan, Kevin McCarthy and Devon Nunes, to name some of the worst GOP toadies. Not kindly, I think. McCain's ghost will judge Graham particularly harshly, as well he should.
3
well, if trump wins in 2020, as well he might, the history books might say these men were loyal to our supreme dear leader and so national heroes.
Most Americans believe that they can do whatever they wish because the constitution gives them permission....no matter if what they do is moral or immoral, decent or indecent, or right or wrong. With this kind of total freedom the future will have no need of prisons, law enforcement agencies, nor law books. Why? Because if the law allows you to do what you want, then there is no wrong you can do.
Blessed are those who do not see yet believe. To those who believe in His name: who are born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
A more accurate image is that of rats gnawing at each other on a sinking Ship of State. The moral compass is shattered. There is no collective conscience - i.e. "knowing with" some higher principle or faith. Where secular idolatry of a political party trumps civil governance.
2
Donald Trump has been a revelation, a white hot spotlight exposing the character of Republican politicians and voters alike. The party has long billed itself as the caretaker of morality. Evangelical Christians and Republicans in Congress and the Senate defending the least moral person to ever hold high office is hypocrisy of the highest order. The Republican Party, voters and politicians alike, has been outed. The only principle they hold dear is forcing their minority views onto America and the world. All the rhetoric about character was a lie.
2
Impeachment is a risky thing.
We may lose the elections.
If we do, we’ll get a king
who will make no exceptions.
If we don’t try to impeach,
we don’t know what’s at stake.
Constitutions you don’t breach.
You don’t, for Goodness’ sake!
If we look the other way,
we blessed Trump’s lawlessness.
Further from the truth he’ll stray.
He will squash the free press.
Go on record. Take a stand.
Love country. Do what’s right.
“Impeach now!” is a command.
It is a worthy fight.
1
Will Republican senators abandon blind tribalism for reasoned self - interest? Will McConnell give up four more years of federal generosity from his cabinet level spouse? No, they won't, ever. But I sure am glad you wrote this great piece.
Republicans have a choice here. However, the emperor and all his minions have no clothes. Their arrogance and hatred will do them in. It could be sooner (yay!) or later (oh well). If they do make the right choice, I will buy you a beer.
1
After splurging five minutes on Douthat's fantastical Roman holiday, I recalled the head-shaking words last night of SNL's Kenan Thompson: “Ain’t nothing going to happen."
Dream on, Mr. Douthat. Truth is, the GOP has been rotting for a long time - since at least Ronald Reagan - and has now reached the putrid form of Donald Trump. Ideas don't fuel the party, racism does. And during the 2016 campaign the GOP exposed its decayed backside to the world by nominating someone they knew was a complete lout. A three-card-monty grifter with a gold toilet. This guy insults them and their families and they nominate him anyway. He barks his ignorance to the world and the party nominates him anyway. What you dream GOPers of doing requires courage on their part, Mr. Douthat; and you search for days and days and find not one spine among them. To paraphrase conservative columnist Jennifer Rubin, the GOP needs to be burned down and rebuilt from the ground up.
1
And what exactly would this new Republican party stand for? I don't even know what the never-Trumpers stand for since all they seem to do is repeat the deceptive mantra that the Democratic party is run by extreme leftists who hate democracy and criticize any Democrat who isn't a centrist.
What policies regarding our most wretched income inequality would the Republicans support? How would they wean us fast enough from fossil fuels to avert the very worst consequences of our rampant exploitation of this earth? How will they address the student loan crisis or the failure of this government to ensure all Americans have access to decent health care and aren't made bankrupt by a health crisis? Do Republicans even care about corporate and big bank malfeasance? Let's have some answers here.
95
Good question. You won't be getting any answers. Whatever the Right used to call non-negotiable positions can't even be expressed in words now. Conservatism just is a raw emotion. They can't explain what they want because they themselves have betrayed all their own positions. Now they duck specifics at all, as a policy, demanding to be heard and accommodated but refusing ever to risk saying what they want, what they're for, what they'll concede, what they have in common with their adversaries. etc. Now the only platform is feelings: shamelessness, invulnerability to questions, no tests, no measurements or metrics, no deadlines, no expectations; just dread and vindictiveness looking for targets to attack, attack, attack.
1
Answers:
None.
They won't try.
They don't care: their kids aren't in hock.
They don't care: they have gold-plated health care.
No.
The Republicans have had ample opportunities to do what is right by the country, but have chosen to support the corruption of their “president” every time. It is nearly impossible to imagine 20 Senate Republicans gaining a moral compass and attempting to right the ship now. They will go down with him, as they must.
2
Trump is not some alien foisted on an unsuspecting Republican party by cruel fate or a lumpen proletariat: He is the inevitable product of a political philosophy that defines itself by negation, whose only creative impulse is to stymie the liberation of the disenfranchised to prop up a corrupt meritless elite. The dissolution and decay you see in Trump mirrors the cauldron of selfishness and rank hypocrisy - not to say fecklessness - that motivated Burke and his project, now clear for all to see.
This is the fall of the Berlin Wall for conservatism - there will be no going back.
84
I’m 70. An idealist child of the 60s with a work ethic from my “greatest generation” father. I’ve voted for republicans and mostly democrats all my
Life but never imagined that women, people of color, teachers, government service, or the middle class in general to be defiled in words and deeds by a complete Party as has happened for years and them elected the worst of those elements. A man who cheated his electricians, carpenters, painters, plumbers,... the very people who vote for him because he plays to the very fears his Party has been stirring up for decades.
It’s almost lonely beings an older white Democrat male but there are millions of us. Thank God my family lives past 90 because this flower child business executive with a successful wife and daughter who fare better than most of their male peers has to live long enough to see the pendulum swing back. For the first time I see a glimmer of Hope.
On principal I will NEVER pull the switch or fill in the blank of a Republican candidate. In my red Coloradan county I used to vote for the republican sheriff who runs unopposed. I didn’t even do that in 2018.
5
As long as we're imagining far-fetched options, what about the Nixon option: Trump resigns. He's not going to do it for the good of the country, and he's not going to do it to avoid being the third President impeached. But he might do it to avoid being the only President ever removed through impeachment.
1
I don’t believe Trump would ever resign. He is perhaps the most narcissistic person I have ever observed.
1
Actually, far from being "political suicide", it seems like a great opportunity for the Republican party to do a full reset. Four more years of Trump will be lousy for everyone. Among many other benefits, contrary to Trump's asserions, the stock market would very likely rally if Trump is no longer able to cause daily disruptions. Republican Senatirs who voted for impeachment would be seen as heroes by a large segment of the voting public.
3
Republican loyalty trumps all, including national Independence from foreign interference, following laws and guidance presented in the constitution. And why is this? Voting to impeach in the House or convict in Senate would mean the Republicans themselves admitting that all the pro White Christian Conservative rhetoric and actions are wrong or fail, such as stuffing the courts, restricting immigration, denying residency and citizenship, breaking treaties, raising tariffs, accepting gun violence, discouraging access to education, promoting denial to human involvement to climate change, advancing the rich to be richer while the rest of the country is financially stagnant at best, and more. I am a strong believer that truth ultimately wins. But sometimes the damage is too great to recover from lies and dis-information. If Trump survives politically, then we all will suffer long term even more, and the nation is truly at risk of survival as the founding fathers had designed. And unfortunately the brilliant Benjamin Franklin's fear of keeping the nation Independence will come to pass.
3
Remember: some people can be fooled "all of the time." Unfortunately, we appear to have a few too many of these people in our electorate right now and they're supported by Fox commentators as well as a formidable social media echo chamber that will always see Trump as a great leader victimized by the liberal media and the deep state. If Nixon had such allies, he might not have needed to resign. Recall Leonard Skynard's song "Alabama": "Watergate does not bother me." Now amplify the equivalent today and you'll get the idea.
2
What’s sad in Douthat’s column and in all the comments here is that no one considers that the facts uncovered in the impeachment inquiry could alter the math of voting. Sad, but true nevertheless. The GOP members of Congress are willing to close their eyes and ears to any factual evidence. We can be sure of this because the Trump administration has already blundered into releasing a transcript that shows any objective person that Trump has extorted the Ukrainian President.
Would Trump use the power of his position to force someone to do something to hurt an opponent? Isn’t this exactly what anyone would expect? Doesn’t this exemplify his transactional approach to every problem? Isn’t this exactly what Trump would have done in business, and bragged about?
2
Finally a Republican who cares about conservatism and his own Party. One willing to stop writing about Democrats and actually trying to save Republicans from themselves. Trump has to go and now, if Republicans are to save anything for which they once stood. Maybe Ross can get Mr. Brooks to do the same. The reckoning must come from within. We need a valid two party system based on facts and true democracy. Trumpism has been America’s temptation to abandon all our principles in favor of a few people getting it their own way at the expense of the majority.
1
Hey Ross, here's my indulgence in political fantasy. The Reagan era is finally coming to an end. See Skowronek, Stephen - political scientist with a plausible presidential cycle theory. According to his theory, Trump could be Carter and Hoover combined. Warren is the new manifestation of FDR and Reagan.
We should all be so lucky.
3
Like the commander of HMS Titanic and George Armstrong Custer, Republicans will never change course until and not until Trump is impeached or voted out of office and the voters sweep Congress clean of their stubborn ilk. I will take a seismic tectonic shift, a realignment in the political landscape for these Republicans to realize they were out of step with the American people and what this country stands for. And there will be some stragglers. Some red-state Republicans in the wheat belt will never change course even if all of the above happens. States like Oklahoma, Kansas, Nebraska, the Dakotas and the states which made of the Old Confederacy, will never change. It will take a political cataclysm to change their minds and even then they will deny what is true.
1
Yes, clearly the Republican party will be much better off if the vote to remove Trump from office. Republican party professionals and Republican elected officials clearly did not want Trump as their nominee in 2016. At this point, voting to remove Trump will require two things from Republicans. They have to be willing to show disloyalty to their party leader. They have to show courage.
There is no way this is going to happen, even though it would be better for the party.
2
It was probably inevitable that the confusions and disorder of the trump phenomenon would manifest to thrust us into this state of national tenterhooks.
Amid the growing severity of the toll that imposes upon our cultural and political functionality, speculations as to its resolution studiously avoid its potential impact upon its agent provocateur who is also its primary victim.
That agent is exhibiting clinical signs of narcissistic decompensation that involve unbalanced responses to disagreeable realities. That can include the persecutory delusions and unsubstantiated accusations against perceived adversaries which we have seen aplenty. That sort of deterioration can compound the stressors that aggravate the physiological infirmities and dysfunctions of aging.
Though decent, rational minds would prefer that our problem be resolved by an orderly and dutiful restoration of Congressional integrity, time's hazards could preempt such good behavior. I pray that not be the case lest it leave us with another "incomplete" on our national learning curve.
Mr. Douthat talks of "principled" Republicans who no longer hold office. The problem is, principle only matters when they do hold office and are willing to put the idea, and ideal, of country over party on the line. To speak up upon or after leaving is simply expediency.
2
In the end, Trump supporters will still flock to his corner. Even if the evidence is rendered indisputable and materializes as concrete proof, they will still reject it out-of-hand and say...
“Look at the Bidens. How come no one is going after them? What’s the big deal, anyway? All Trump did was try to find out more about the Bidens’ corruption. There’s nothing wrong with that. That’s politics.”
The only thing that MIGHT change is whether there really IS a 10-20 percent independent swing vote that will, in fact vote for the Democratic nominee. But since 2016, I’m not sure I can believe there’s a there there.
Neither can we count on 20 Republicans in the Senate to join Democrats on anything. Look what happened with Jeff Flake. He flaked out even though he was on his way out. He didn’t even have the guts to deliver a parting shot.
2
Douthat imagines the future and it's more of the same. He doesn't seem to see that the Republican experiment is all over. Republicans need to rethink their lives and change their ways. They need a leader with integrity to explain to them what they've become. And they've got to accept that their whole reason for being has been a big, greedy, self-indulgent, narcissistic, juvenile, venal tantrum. Nobody seems even close to understanding the problem with the basic party platform. The rot is in the fabric of conservatism--racism, xenophobia, anti-intellectualism, hypocrisy. Even Never Trumpers are still Republicans. There's a big mea culpa necessary here. Stop pretending you don't know.
2
The US President has told over 12k verifiable lies.
Not just white lies.
Whoppers.
In an party of honour in any other developed nation, the party of such a man would have parted ways with him a long time ago.
But the Republicans have no honour.
4
The funny thing about the Trump presidency: it was the natural culmination of the modern day Republican Party. The corruption, the greed, the racism, the slavophilia fetish. It was all there in the Bush 2 presidency. The next logical step was gameshow host and charlatan, Donald Trump, at the helm.
5
It's too late. The G.O.P. is irredeemable. Republicans have hitched their wagon to an anvil that is plummeting into the depths of the rising seas.
1
This NeverTrump, NeverSocialists Small Government Republican must be convinced that Trump has committed an "impeachable offense." So far, I don't see it.
But I do fear a Socialist president. It seems that unless Trump resigns or decides to not run for re-election, an impeached mob boss, Trump, could easily lose to Elizabeth Warren, Chuck Schumer and Pelosi.
Horrors! They are even more repugnant personalities and big invasive government demonizers than even the juvenile Adam Schiff, nasty Joe Biden or Real Donald Trump.
Talk about the politically greediest politicians in Washington. They're it.
No greed is worst than the greed for political power and the wealth that comes with that power.
Anything but socialism, right? The only viable way forward is to increase inequality, move even more capital from the middle and lower classes to the stratospheric class, literally destroy the planet favor of corporate profit, turn our nation into a desperate, Medievial system of serfs and billionaires?
Haven't you noticed in the last 25+ years that this small-government, big-business, trickle-down concept hasn't worked out very well?
I'm pretty sure that people are done with, it's just that 38% of them don't quite know it yet. They desperately want change, but right now they only see it through the narrow lens of fascism. At some future point, if it doesn't end in revolution and fire, there is a future waiting for them where people can actually make a living without working two jobs, their kids can go to college, and they can get health care that they can afford. All in the name of a political system that does not dare speak its name.
Your fear of socialism is unfounded- will you be refusing your government retirement benefits? Your claim that Elizabeth Warren is in any way “more repugnant” than trump is absurd. It’s stupidity or a lie- take your pick. I don’t recall her promoting racism, paying off the silence of porn stars, mimicking the physically disabled for laughs, and much worse ad. Infinitum. Trump has suggested (on multiple occasions) he might induce a civil war, should he lose the 2020 election. How does this not reflect a “greed for political power and the wealth that comes with it”. By the way, It’s clear he is adding to his personal wealth through his presidency. Trump is nothing, if not repulsively proud of his money- he will certainly go down as the single worst president in the country’s history. The people who blindly followed him will be reviled as well.
All these worthless appeals to Republicans to wake up and see the corrupt man they are supporting. Accept for a small few who make mild rebukes to the man you can hear a pin drop in the room when it comes to objection to Trump's actions. After two and a half years of unrelenting sleaze this Republican Party is attached to the hip of this man.
They are now the Party of the "Unforgiven".
Sad article. I see that asking Republicans to get a spine and do the right thing is still off the table. Now even the smoky illusion of that is just a lonely daydream of a NYTimes columnist walking around his apartment in a toga.
It has come to this.
3
I can’t see 20+ of those cowards stepping up to take one for the team, not the GOP and certainly not the country.
That would require a sacrifice and selflessness not in evidence among this bunch.
The frogs jumped in the pot with Trump and it started boiling long ago. I doubt they have the wherewithal anymore to plot an escape.
That said, I would be glad to be wrong about this.
From your lips to God's ears.
There are no Republicans of principle in the congress!
I would be very interested in knowing what the Republican Party stands for without Trump. Right now it seems it is a party whose policies favor the greedy, the racist, the corrupt, the even more corrupt, and the cruel.
That was not always the case, but it certainly is now.
Republicans should consider this an opportunity to reclaim what republicanism once stood for. Fiscal conservative. Family values. A thousand rays of lights.....
Geez, for once I agree with this guy.
Trump was simply a mistake. A product of shallow repetitiveness, formulated by past dictators. A product of our time. An embarrassment to the US and it’s allies. A boon for a false narrative, corrupt behaviour and trite symbolism. His legacy will be one of mendacity, hatred and spitefulness. All the while deflecting from what damage is being done behind the scenes by cherry picked, self interested leaders of administrations, trying to destroy the very things they are supposed to protect. The only conclusion can be to make America great, drain the swamp and banish Trump and his sycophants to some of the darkest pages in US history!
"The power of "Magical Thinking" Mr. Douthat...
"Magical thinking happens when you have firmly held beliefs based on scanty or even non-existent evidence or when you make plans in which ends and means are radically out of synch...
Magical thinking is everywhere. It infects politics, religion, the media, even the economy."
Sep 17, 2016
I would suggest not to indulge yourself in self-deception, but I can't blame you, after all who wants to face reality...
I guess it's the only way to survive what's coming at the speed of a comet, or a mass of gigantic iceberg, but no one has created life jackets to withstand this much water explosion...
20 republicans...let's stop daydreaming.
20 clones...that's more like it!
1
The GOP is dead and buried. They have lost their way. They went after Bill Clinton for a consensual affair but ignore all of Trump's. Conservatism is dead. Praise the Lord.
Finally a column from you that I not only can follow, syntactically, but with which I agree.
I'd like to be informed when the Republican fever breaks.
American ‘conservatism’ and the Republican Party are intellectually and morally bankrupt. Donald Trump is the toxic detritus they have left behind; and like all active polluters, they have left us to bear the cost of cleaning up the mess.
This columnist’s complicity with the Fox propaganda machine belies his stance. Calling radical a former working class Republican from Oklahoma - who came away a Democrat following her deep dig into bankruptcy land - is a bit much. Elizabeth Warren has a brain and knows how, why and where to focus it. She bases her views on facts and reason, unlike the current occupant, whose every move is in service of his ego-driven insecurity.
I always enjoy reading your columns Ross, I love how you own your own elitism and hey, I almost always learn a new word, in this case Petronius. But please do me a favor and spell out exactly what your brand of conservatism is in 100 words or less. Because 99.9% of Republican voters have no clue who Edmund Burke is. These days, conservatism means only 1 thing: anti-liberal. For too long now Republicans have tied their fortunes to the gun lobby, anti-abortion zealotry, religious hypocrisy, homophobia, xenophobia and racism. None of these things represent true conservatism, Trump is a symptom of a much larger cancer. Tucker Carlson awaits.
2
Ahhh, complete Republican destruction is ahead? A guy can dream. More like complete American destruction with 4 more.
I really need for someone to explain to me the psychology behind why Republicans are so afraid of a man who exhibits exaggerated displays of thuggery, then proves himself utterly stupid on social media. Are grown men really that scared of being on the receiving end of a nasty gram on Twitter? Are they afraid of what Trump might have on them?
I have repeatedly called the offices of my two Republican senators and asked this specific question, and I get no clear answers. The Republican Party will have a lot to answer for when Trump is gone, this I believe. The Republican Senate has not served their constituents well, in any capacity.
Ross, the problem is, Republicans don't have any credibility any more. The GOP has shown that it doesn't care about fiscal discipline, doesn't care about our allies, doesn't care about our air and water, doesn't care about families (if they are refugees or are living here (even for years) illegally), doesn't care about having Congressional leaders receive information to which they are entitled. Frankly, the GOP doesn't stand for rule of law, but only for "It's ok if you are a Republican."
The first ship of state metaphor made it sound like only the conservatives were aboard. No, Mr. Douthat, the rest of us are aboard, too. I've long since stopped listening to the Republicans. I am watching their actual votes.
The icebergs out there? They are what's melting off the Arctic and Antarctic, accelerated by Mr. Hoax himself and his Senate enablers. Will Romney go along? The others all have, regardless of their words.
1
One can see a scenario in which the President is turned out of office, and the Republicans put together a moderate and photogenic ticket such as Mitt Romney and Nikki Haley. Such a package would look mighty good if the Democrats put forth a ticket of far left ravers whose goals would compromise the basic freedoms of American life. If the Democrats come to their senses however, and nominate more centrist candidates, then there's probably nothing the Republicans could do to win. It would be 1974 and 1976 all over again, and deservedly so, many will think. Although I never thought Donald Trump was qualified for the Presidency, and events have proven that out, I also think the biggest mistake the more informed of his critics have made is not trying to understand why he won in the first place. The candidate that can channel those same populist instinct along with a record of basic decency and competence could go far in a post-Trump political world.
Words matter. Few people today can make any sensible distinction between Republican and Conservative, or agree on political principles which govern them. Consider Conservative dogma:
Fiscal prudence? It's been out the window since the 2007-8 meltdown. Obama saved the economy with bank and auto bailouts and stimulus borrowing which were paid back.
Deficit control? Clinton, a Democrat, was effective in reducing deficits which Reagan ran up with pie in the sky nuclear defense. George W. ran us into the red again with two wars--one based on fake intelligence-- which we're still mired in.
Small local government and free corporate markets are supposedly self-regulating and better than federal standards. Then why are blue states and municipalities defying MAGA policies to reduce carbon emissions? Coal and non-renewable oil and gas for energy are OK good for jobs and the economy, but they're devastating for the planet. Even corporate giants are diversifying markets and developing renewable energy sources like wind and solar.
GOP wars on labor unions and collective bargaining have adversely affected wages and retirement programs; anti-abortion and birth control measures discriminate against women and families; tax cuts favor the few already wealthy; the list goes on. Conservativism is killing the Republican party.
All ideas that even a few (20!) Republican senators will develop a sense of patriotic, Constitutional duty to protect our republic and/or will make the political sacrifice of their Senate seats in order to do so is absolute fantasy. It's not just individual seats to be protected; it's the entire Republican aristocratic ethos. I believe they have determined that they and their party are so far down the Trump rabbithole that the ONLY path is to continue abetting Trump and seek to protect and promote themselves as loyalists in his not-so-distant future dictatorship regime.
I give Ross Douthat credit for detailing such an exit strategy for the GOP from the Trump fiasco (at least as many see it, though apparently few Republicans). That's because he and the Times's other resident conservative editorialist, among others of the right who claim to reject the president, tend to oppose impeachment. This fuels my suspicion that they covertly support a lot of what Trump and his cronies are doing, and would likely vote for him in 2020 against most any Democrat save Joe Biden.
Personally, I came to the conclusion long ago that impeachment, while politically risky, was a better option for the Democrats than dithering and letting a nutty (to be kind), lawless leader get away with one transgression after another. I'm not convinced that Bill Clinton's resurgence after impeachment is analogous because, to anyone other than hardcore Trump and Republican loyalists, lying about the Monica Lewinsky affair is trivial next to what our current POTUS has been doing. Support for Richard Nixon's impeachment grew over time, forcing him to resign rather than face certain removal from office.
Douthat's scenarios here are plausible, but so is the outcome where Trump is reelected in 2020 and the Republicans happily remain a pseudo-conservative movement based on white dominance and girded by the religious right, the gun lobby, amoral corporate interests, and so on. As Maduro followed Chavez in Venezuela, someone can surely succeed Trump on our road to self-destruction.
1
Twenty Republican Senators or a flying pig. Which will it be? Bet the pig.
45
Let’s take the Al Gore “alternate history” a bit further. As a sitting president and without as much Clinton baggage, Gore probably would have won Florida and the 2000 election. Where would this country be now with climate change, Wall Street regulation, tax cuts for the rich, the Great Recessives, etc. And consider this. VP Gore chaired the commission on air transportation safety - with one recommendation that cockpit doors be secured against unauthorized access. If he received the CIA briefing in Aug 2001 that Al Quida was planning to use planes as bombs, do you think he would have said “OK, you’ve covered your butts, what’s next” like W? We would be living in a very different world today.
Dear Lucilius, "Every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end", but there is no Cicero in the GOP.
I have been thinking that if we Democrats had said okay and let Bill Clinton be impeached, the alternative of Gore was not a terrible option and could have forestalled the Bush W years, empowered whoever came next, and never led to the disaster Trump.
Notice how as Douthat counts off the categories of GOP Senators who might break with Trump, he accounts for each in terms of their political self interest. Not one GOP Senator can he count just to do what’s right and what their oath of office demands. Sorry, Ross, but you inadvertently signaled the GOP is irredeemable no matter what happens to Trump.
5
If the GOP starts to move in this direction, please don’t tell them it was your idea. I would hate to derail the process.
Ross is actually much like Trump.
Both are masters of distraction and fantastical false equivalency, and a 'look over there at what they are doing' mentality.
The GOP is lost as a party whether Trump wins or not. If Trump wins they will simply do more damage and desecration to our society, constitution, and institutions.
The people see who is doing the damage – I exclude the Trump base/personality cult/fear cult, nothing changes their thinking – and facts are very stubborn things when they come out in this fashion, with the POTUS actually admitting what he has done.
The majority of voters respect truth, honor, ethics, morality, and accountability, of which Trump has none. And they hold this position even when it hurts their own party, as they understand the greater good.
His supporters and enablers are about to find out the price for propping up this monstrosity. There are records, and there are more people than the whistleblower ready to speak. They see there is safety in numbers, and they understand the peril our country is in. For those who doubt, see Nixon, R M.
Trump is genuinely in trouble, and all the doublespeak and false equivalency in the world will not change that. Nor will the rantings of a maniacal former mayor or endless talking heads.
1
Mr. Douthat: I read your columns and I listen to you on "The Argument." I hear from you all the things you are against, or what you think Republicans should be against. I am curious: What are you FOR? What, actually, is your argument FOR something?
1
Ross the kind of devastation Trump years have caused this country, will be encrypted in the history books for record keeping. Just in the couple years we have personally felt it. My daughter’s friend a white Christian girl from the Midwest was shocked in disbelief when her own brother refused to accept her dating a young man of Asian origin. Is he even a citizen! Was he born here! Not even worth mentioning the family is hard core Trump followers. Doesn’t matter the boy came here from China as a little child and is grew up right here in the south, becoming a naturalized citizens. Comes from an intellectual family of academicians. My daughter’s friend has accepted that no one from her family will show up for her wedding. Her outpouring from friends and his family is heart warming.
We are all still reeling with the news of a shooting of a Sikh police deputy who wore a turban (Sikhs are not Muslims, Sikhism is an Indic faith born out of reformed Hinduism). This too after Trump paraded with his buddy the Indian Prime Minister Modi.
3
@ petey tonei Ma - You are back! The story reminds me of the way things were in my extended family - in Rumford RI and Seekonk MA - once they were one town we went to Congregational Church. About a quarter of a mile away was the Catholic Church. I think our minister warned us about Catholics. And then a cousin married a Catholic. I was just a kid then so I did not know anything but I am pretty sure that some members of my family broke off, what happened on the other side I do not know.
Here in Sweden where everybody - not me - has been to Thailand, a lot of Swedish men bring back a girl-woman from Thailand and marry. I know nothing about family discord in those cases. And since we have such a large population of people who came as asylum seekers the possibilities for new mixes are limitless.
Your sad tale and the story of the shooting of the Sikh police deputy tell all too much about my America in the 21st century.
And yes it is bizarre that Trump says my best friend is x or y or z when those letters stand for people with backgrounds he wants to keep out of America.
Crazy.
Planning to revive blog today by filing a post about Thomas Chatterton Williams recent Magazine story and in this post I will use a comment by my Times friend Blackmamba - who he really is I do not know but his comment on TCW bears upon the culture you refer to.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
You nail the problem early on in this piece: there are not 20 principled Republicans.
1
I love this piece, thank you!
What Ross does not admit is that djt is a true republican of the modern era. republicans are far from conservative. they are authoritarians and troglodytes convinced that life is a zero sum game. We can only hope that they go the way of the Whigs.
1
Douthat's best column ever. Yes, Republicans in COngress could dump Trump and save the country from the ill effects of him running again, while at the same time saving their own consciences after being such irresponsible toadies for the past 4 years. It's a good idea--now if you could just make them think they thought of it themselves.
1
Rather than an article about whether ditching Donnie is better for the Rs politically perhaps you think about the evidence already given by dumb Donnie on a silver platter and write a thoughtful appeal to the radical right on the simple notion that country comes first and why it must.
1
The coolest column ever from RD! [with whom I seldom agree]
Never looked at it that way. My focus has been on what's good for the Country.
Any thought of another trump/Republican person is so revolting I've never even let it cross my mind.
Actually the closest comparison I had in mind for Republicans was the "flushing" of the toilet the morning after you'd shared a fifth of Scotch with a buddy that really didn't drink.
I have always WISHED the Clinton had the dignity and honor to resign....Gore would have been president. That would have been a very different alternate history at this point in time.......
"You can’t say that you didn’t have an early exit from the Trump era. You can’t say you didn’t have a choice." Exactly, and this Warren suppoter is cheering like anything.
Ross, your party has been leading to this catastrophe since Nixon. In 2016, you wrote many columns about "understanding" the issues of the Trump supporter.
Well, we now know that the Trump supporter is, indeed, pretty deplorable. This man was easy to read, obvious in his amorality, transparent in his bigotry and ignorance. And, yet, you asked us to "understand" why people would vote for him.
You will need to make amends for a very long time because this buffoon is coming close to dismantling the American constitution.
4
Thanks for trying, but these GOP Senators are too cowardly to ever stand up to tRump. The GOP will ALWAYS put Party before Country, even if it means working with foreign governments to undermine our legitimate elections. This country is in big trouble.
1
Ross, there is always a cadre willing to back the next Dictator. They don’t arrive and hold power alone. No facts, no smoking gun will deter them.
The Republicans don't get to have it both ways. Either they finally live up to their oaths to defend the Constitution, or brand themselves and their party forever and indelibly with the stink and corruption of Trump and his neofascist cabal. This is their last chance to redeem themselves, and even then, it's unlikely that anyone who played any part in installing, rationalizing, normalizing and maintaining this monster in power will ever be forgiven by the voters, or by history.
2
As much as I relish the thought that the GOP should lay in rot for the next 50 years, I agree this is their moment to be clean of this scourge.
I, too, fantasize that maybe one last glimer of enlightened conservatism (or helpful cynicism) will break its way into ranks of these mindless fanatics and cowering sheep, but but I'm afraid Republicans are by nature authoritarian. Most of them seek a leader to follow into battle, or off a cliff.
Trump is our Chernobyl.
It's have always had a choice. My hope is that they are wiped out in the next election. They have been forced to do what they have been doing covertly it in the open and on steroids with the Trump takeover catching them by suprise. They were already corrupt and willing to grab power with no concern for the Constitution. They have taken full advantage of the Trump era and abandoned the people of this country and it's Constitution with no sign of letting up. A sudden show of "conscience" will not wipe that record clean. As long as they see a way to keep power, they will do it. There will be no recognizable Republican party after this. Hopefully I what is left will be gutted. I see no heroes in the current group, only opportunists who will do anything to stay in government for the opportunities it presents. The People are just suckers who are easily manipulated to vote against there own best interests with lies and emotional triggers that are used to keep them in power.
1
Heck, Ross; if McConnell and GOP want to take your advise seriously; I will even vote Mitt Romney against Warren. Remember I am a Dem guy, but even I will opt for GOP if we get a Republican who wants to stand to Trump.
No one seems to pay attention to Mr. Cohen, Trump’s long-time lawyer, since he went to the Big House. “Gone. Sent up the river” is the answer to “Where is Mike when we need him?”
America needs Michael Cohen or, at least, America needs to heed his words: If Trump loses 2020 election, there won't be a “peaceful transition of power”.
Today there are today, roughly speaking, twice as many guns in America as in 1970, the year of the Kent State mass murders. There are now, again roughly, 3 million AR-15/M16 style rifles in America - that can be accounted for.
America faces an historic tragedy, unrivaled for internal strife, since the slavers went to war to keep humans in chains.
Tell us out here in the rest of the world, how all this will play out for you in America if there is an attempt to actually remove Trump?
They say you can catch a monkey by placing a large, heavy jar in the jungle where monkeys live. The jar has a narrow neck and some tasty fruit monkeys like to eat, at the bottom inside the jar. A monkey comes along, sees the goodies in the jar, reaches in and grabs a handful, but the neck is too small for the monkey to get his hand out of the jar unless he lets go of the treats he’s holding. The jar is too heavy to lift, so the monkey is stuck and gets caught because he won’t let go of what he grabbed. Trump is like the monkey jar: the Republicans are realizing Trump is destroying their reputation and they don’t want to be caught in his corruption, but they can’t bring themselves to let go of the goodies.
3
This all sounded so hopeful until the line "...and then you’re just a few Republicans of principle away from 20."
Oh well. More likely to find a unicorn hiding in the Senate than a Republican Senator with principle.
1
I liked the article, however I cringe when I hear the Tea-man described as a conservative, or Republican, or hear about his"policies" or "positions" or "strategy" or anything else that requires consistency. He's a member of the Anarchist Party, who number in the millions but whose "views" are a scattergram of random sociopathic utterances.
1
Nah. Ross Douthat is no Seneca and Trump is no Nero. The battle for America is not being fought by the patricians. It is being fought by American voters. They (or at least enough of them) picked Trump, against the wishes and advice of the entire ruling class. What happens next depends on how many regular Americans are willing to give Trump a pass on this Ukraine business. So far, it looks like he is going to get away with it. Despite all of the handwringing from on high, a very large number of voters see this sordid affair as the sort of things that politicians do regularly. Digging up dirt (or, if you prefer, uncovering misconduct) on your opponent is standard operating procedure, even if foreigners are involved. Unless something much more sinister is revealed, the whole impeachment movement will fizzle, and make Trump stronger. This worthless scoundrel will be the ugly face of an ugly America for another four years.
Maybe some of us who are down on the GOP are naive about the vagaries of political life, but what happened to love of country... of our democracy? Can’t they remember the oath they took... to uphold the laws of the United States?
Trump isn’t conservatism. He’s fascism. Why can’t they see that we tried it, and it’s just not working... not for Americans... not for anybody?
C,mon people! This is the party of Lincoln! I was a Republican my whole life because I did believe in many of the policies and viewpoints. But this party is nothing that I can relate to at all... Trump and company are carpetbaggers who are selling a bill of goods to weak- minded people:
1
As a beginning-to-end Trump supporter I regard the Trump Impeachment Gimmick as a desperate last ditch political maneuver guaranteed to give us four more years of Trumpian utopia.
I have no idea what possessed the Democrats to gift President Trump in this way. Perhaps it is because Trumpian hate has driven them crazy and they now have a death wish.
You are living in a dream world along with the NYT readership.
Impeachment will only give Trump more power. This is a colossal mistake by the Democrats. You don’t impeach at this point, you take your case to the voters along with a good candidate and s platform. But, the Democratic platform is so out of touch with 50% of the population that an election will not work for the Democrats and they know it.
Republicans face a high stakes moral calculation, while the world watches, and historians take note. This one will not blow over, go away, and be forgotten. Even if you are loyal to Trump to the bitter end, he will not reciprocate for you. Choose wisely.
Douthat refers to "Republicans of principle". There are none.
While I agree with Douthat that Clinton was personally corrupt, there are two significant differences between Trump and (Bill) Clinton. One is that while Trump is at least as personally corrupt as Clinton, Trump is also systemically corrupt. Trump’s corruption runs through his businesses, tax fraud schemes, loan defaults, money-laundering and emoluments. It extends through the crony foxes he has installed in henhouse cabinet posts. Everything Trump touches is soiled. Two, Trump, unlike Clinton, is an incompetent president, just a terrible politician. Trump’s governing philosophy is to thrash and bluster, in a pathetic attempt to overcome his ignorance. There’s a bit of overlap between the two, but Douthat should be careful to avoid equating Trump and Clinton.
1
The tactical issue is how to get to the "Donald Who?" era without getting caught in transit. But if you can't evolve on a dime, you shouldn't be a politician.
The strategic issue --- far more intractable --- is how to maintain the infrastructure that permits the continued existence of the Republican party, while miming some kind of renewal. Without massive voter suppression and constant appeal to irrational resentments, the electoral grasp slips. Without faithful subservience to predatory business interests, there is no donor base. Without a broad spectrum-rejection of scientific analysis, there is no policy.
If 'radicalization' means nothing more than acknowledging the real-world problems we face and imagining ways to address them, then it's going to be hard to block it with a tissue of fantasy and dissimulation. The shadow of an external world draws near.
1
Republicans have revelled in the excessive theft of the public interest and public trust over the last three years. Should their unwanted uncle finally leave the house - there is no recovery for the GOP from these egregious misdeeds. We will not forget their greed and we will never forget their lack of ethics and responsibility. The only decent legacy Trump will leave behind will be that he destroyed the Republican party.
91
.....and then you will have the rule of one party, much like Chicago or LA [or China or Russia?] Be careful what you wish for. The USA benefits from reform and change from the liberal side and restraint and patience from conservative side. Long live the two-party system.
"Republicans have reveled in the excessive theft of the public interest and public trust over the last three years." ??? How about since 1981?
For the world to get better and it had to get much worse and in some ways we owe Trump a debt of gratitude. It’s sort of like we are George Bailey in real time who gets a chance to see what the world would have been like had he not survived falling in the icy lake and Pottersville takes over Iconic Bedford Falls in the great It’s a Wonderful Life.
With Trump at the helm and his “acting” cronies in various WH positions we get to witness firsthand how pure concentrated evil actually works and corrupts everything in its path. I thought the most telling story of this was during Nicole Wallace’s MSNBC program is Friday when Sam Stein interrupted her to pass pass on a first hand account of witnessing Lindsey Graham crying after Joe Biden’s son had died of cancer and how dear the Biden family was to him and how much it hurt to see that family suffer yet another tragedy. Where is that Lindsey Graham now?
In closing and to reference another movie to this point when the Wicked Witch of the West is doused with water and her evil wretchedness melts away her guards who the viewer thought were her loyal minions but in fact are grateful that she is finally gone and hand Dorothy the broom to get her back to Kansas. Hopefully with an impeachment looming in the near future those 20 or possibly more senators will step from out of the shadow that they have been living in and vote to right a terrible injustice that Trump has cast in this once great nation.
1
"I think these conservatives underestimate, as liberals did with Bill Clinton long ago, the advantages in jettisoning a corrupt leader. (An Al Gore presidency was a better timeline for Democrats, even though it would have required the horror of letting Ken Starr win)" (Douthat).
Can't I just wiggle my nose and zap myself into that alternate universe in which there was an Al Gore presidency because Clinton was impeached?
Oh. Wait. Al Gore did win the popular vote in this universe, as did Hillary.
Probably the only thing that could get Trump out of office is cardiac arrest, and that will seemingly only happen if he gets hypnotized into giving up his strolls on the golf course--if then.
2
Some right wing columnists have criticized Trump; some have rejected him as a menace.
My concern is that this is presented as a kind of profile in courage. Trump is now a "bridge too far." I see hypocrisy here.
The only thing that distinguishes Trump from his GOP predecessors is obnoxious style and temperament, for GOP policies since Reagan have remained almost identical.
Trump is only Reagan/Bush family without the salesman's phony smile.
1
Yay, Ross! Very good observations, all the way around!
The Republican party has always been thus. They,since at least Reagan,have played on racism,tribalism,etc. and the result is what you see now. Getting rid of Trump won’t fix the corruption that exists in the party. That Trump came from the republican party is no accident. People,like the author,delude themselves if they think the republican party can be salvaged!
1
Is anyone really buying this? It couldn’t be any more clear that the petulant democrats can’t stand the fact that their incredibly flawed, out of touch candidate lost in 2016 and they’ll do anything to overturn that election. Funny thing is, this will ensure that Mr. Trump wins in 2020. Keep it up!
1
I still think you are misreading the Republican base, Ross. Trump can be impeached, but they can't. Trump can be voted out of office, but they can't.
The problem, dearest Ross, lies not in our politicians, but in ourselves, and, to switch and paraphrase to another famous saying, there is a cancer, not on the presidency, but among ourselves. Nativism, racism, the notion that immigration "steals" from "us" rather than enriches us, and the eternal power lust of the Evangelicals to take over our legal system, is that cancer.
Who can defend genuine and robust American democracy and society against these unAmerican impulses? A politician is one thing, but what can we do about 30 percent of the population who *want* this?
What statesman can come forward now? What conservative leader can in outrage shatter the Golden Calf the Right has decided to dance around in an intoxicated frenzy?
The problem lies in us. And democracy has a hard time dealing with things, when things come to that. And they are coming to that, more than pundits, or any of us sane people not consumed with cruelty and xenophobia and dreams of theocracy, may want to realize.
2
How can the elected Republicans who gave us Trumpism be the same people to restore American conservatism. Out with all of them.
We don't even need the whistle blowers testimony. The phone record says it all. If Republics question it's authenticity all the Dems have to say is allow us to look at the original hidden in Trump's secret sock.
As a Republican, I won't be voting for Republicans until the last Trump appointed judge retires
Yes, this is that bad of a transgression
1
The mistake many Republicans make is in thinking that Trump is a "fighting conservative leader". Trump likes to fight, of course, but he has never been for anyone or anything other than himself. His relationship with the Republican party is one of expediency, not ideology. Presumably many Republicans thought they could use him while disdaining him. They were willing to look the other way at his incompetence and nastiness for the sake of power. Unfortunately, the one thing Trump is good at is verbal brawling and dragging people down to his level. It's a lesson in being careful what you wish for.
1
It's worse than we think. Because even a "never Trumper" like Douthat simply cannot see that it's not just Trump. He must defend "conservatism" and allegedly moderate Republicans and their toxic philosophy and lack of principle to the bitter end.
A compass provides direction, however a moral compass requires reflection. One can only muse about 20 Republican Senators making an informed choice to uphold their oath to the U.S. Constitution, as opposed to a pathetic fealty to Donald J. Trump, "Authoritarian-in-Chief." The world is watching......
1
Ross Douthat is missing the value that Republicans see in Trump; the reason they quickly made amends and supported him in 2016, and have stood by him through mistake after mistake. They want him to be a diversion. They thought they would ram through a hard-right agenda in the dark, while all the lights were on the latest outrageous comment from the White House. They had dreams of all the pundits going on and on about the image of the Presidency while they, behind closed doors, repealed the ACA, gutted Medicaid and did a hack job on Medicare and Social Security. They got giddy when they saw themselves gutting HUD and the EPA, and repealing Dodd Frank. They saw more tax cuts for the rich, more social programs eliminated, and more money for the military. They wanted to put kids in cages to send a message to immigrants. They thought they could stack the Supreme Court with young, hard Right wing justices who would finally overturn Roe V Wade.
.
But the American people are smarter than the Republicans thought. We wouldn’t let them kill the ACA. We didn’t turn a blind eye to the kids in cages. The Trump Diversion isn’t working. Alas I don’t think they realize this. If they did they would be happy for the Impeachment proceed. Instead many of them are fuming mad.
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My observations of morally bankrupt people who hold power--is that sooner or later everyone pays a price, even those who may feel elevated being in that person's circle. The old adage: it only takes one rotten apple to spoil a barrel of apples holds true. No matter how noble Republican supporters believe Trump's ends are, his "anything goes" means and reckless attacks against others who disagree with him--does not bode well. Those who allow Trump to threaten, to disrespect, and to denigrate others--and lie in the service of agenda, are part of the degeneracy. Don't be surprised when what you hold dear also suffers.
all it will take for senators to abandon Trump is one poll showing Ted Cruz, or Romney etc can beat Warren.
Trump is their albatross.
1
May as well imagine that the Senate IS allowed to vote in secret, whereupon impeachment would be a done deal.
At the end of the day, there are two forms of "conservatism": the incredibly boring, impractical form Douthat prefers and the incredibly absurd, impractical approach Trumers prefer. Either way, it stinks, but I suppose we need it, seeing as we're stuck with both yin and yang.
An impeached and ousted Trump will leave a lot of Trumpsters looking for a new Trump. No establishment Republican can match his style, his audacity, or his willingness and ability to trash establishment Republicans. Establishment Republicans will want a candidate with Trump's charismatic outsiderness, who will use Trump's fake populism to win votes but not do anything to keep his populist promises.
Republicans will have to run as either the one who can make other Republicans kiss his behind the way they all kissed Trump's, or as the one who will restore reasoned disagreement and debate to a party dominated for decades by cheap slogans, dishonesty, and pretense -- the pretense of worrying about the deficit and promoting racial harmony. Watching candidates get blown up by the political landmines they have carefully planted for decades will be great fun. They will probably try to adopt the same course of action they took with dubya, sentencing him to nonexistence and competing to be the candidate best able to run against Obama and Hillary in a campaign where the Donald is not mentioned. Trump and the Democrats will both make this exceedingly painful and difficult, and Trump, with his lack of any ideology or interest in it, might decide to seek revenge by going back to side with the party he used to support.
… and then you’re just a few Republicans of principle away from 20.
This brings to mind the story in Genesis 18 where Abraham negotiates with God over how many righteous would need to be found in a wicked city if the city is not to be destroyed. Abraham manages to negotiate God down to just 10. Alas, 10 could not be found, let alone 20.
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Why, in the extensive 'Shadow Foreign Policy article, is there no mention of Biden Sr. boasting on video that he had caused the firing of the prosecutor who was investigating the oligarch owner of the company that was paying Biden Jr. $50,000 per month?
Let's not forget that the Trump organization now owns the RNC.
I’ve been waiting for a pundit to make this argument. As the Democrats drift further to the left, the Republicans can save this country from an incompetent narcissist. The Democratic field is weak and vulnerable, and the electorate is not aligned with their politically impossible goals. Further, a courageous stance could save the GOP from being forever associated with racism, hypocrisy, and incompetence. If conservatives don’t embrace inclusivity, they are done (based on the projected demographics in this country). Same thing, with waking up to climate change. And, that would be a sad state of affairs. True freedom cannot exist in a socialist state ... ask anyone from Cuba, Venezuela, and China. We need a vibrant debate about the appropriate role of government. Such tension serves all Americans. Turn off Fox and do your job.
There was a time in this country when senators and congressmen knew how to exert their power. It’s time for Mitch to step up to the plate and seize this opportunity to shape the future of the GOP. I can’t imagine any Senate Republican leader who enjoys their relationship with Trump.
To imagine that Republicans could grow spines and start actually thinking rationally is difficult. To think that it will actually happen is absurd.
Did this this guy really just toss out Bill Clinton’s name in terms of corruption as an equivalent to Donald Trump who should have been removed from office? And we’re supposed to take his commentary seriously? OK.
"Conservatives"?
Please define.
There is nothing 'conservative' about what calls itself the Republican Party.
That horse left the barn a long, long, time ago.
The Republican Party of today is a group of power-hungry-for-the-sake-of- power sycophants who lick the boots of a has-been reality TV show host who could not borrow a dime from an American bank before the election because his sense of fiscal responsibility was completely absent, in order to preserve their jobs.
In the process American Democracy and the rule of law are obliterated.
Conservatives.
Ha!
1
Trump's hold on the GOP is a mystery, given he is completely disloyal and lacking in charm. But he has shown us that all the supposed GOP principles of patriotism, morality, Constitutionality, fiscal responsibility, etc., are fake. In other words, they are with Trump all the way to whatever catastrophe awaits us -- and I still fear Trump is capable of blundering into nuclear war in his ignorance and surrounded by layers of yes-men.
3
Given that half the population is under average intelligence, it makes sense that they are easily swayed with demagoguery. (Their problems are all the fault of Mexicans, Muslims, or the mysterious “Coastal Elites”, etc.) Since Day One, Trump has been courting them. He’s not aiming high, because he doesn’t have the equipment to do that. The lower than average intelligence crowd makes for easy pickings for him. If you can fit your “policies” on a baseball cap (Make America Great Again), then that is good enough for them. It works for the rest of the GOP, as well.
@ Svante Aarhenius - Great name and great to see new Swede number 2 today in comment land. Welcome. We Americans, some of us, have to believe that even Trump is not so stupid that he will start a nuclear war.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Citizen US SE
Wasted photons reading this, Ross.
The Republican electorate, educated by party strategists to be angry, fearful, "Liberal hating", amygdala activated, fact denying, conspiracy loving, science disputing, gun loving, zygote obsessed, dogwhistled maniacs -- all in service of corporate and financial elites -- will NEVER support those who don't support Trump.
Face the Age of Trump. Bad faith and bad character just could be America's true destiny. It certainly is the GOP's.
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"On the day that you were born the angels got together
And decided to create a dream come true
So they sprinkled moon dust in your hair of gold and starlight in your eyes of blue"
Or should I copy and paste 'Dream Weaver' lyrics.
Ain't gonna happen.
I think the Republican party must complete its downward spiral into total immolation before it can rise from the ashes. 50 GOP senators standing behind an incompetent President during impeachment may do the trick. Or 4 more years of Trump should do it, though the 'collateral' damage to the USA will be a heavy price.
That would be great if it was even remotely possible.
Unfortunately, unless there is a clear short term gain for 20 republican senators they will not go on a limb supporting an impeachment.
First of all, even if they were to impeach, they could not distanced themselves from Trump that much after enabling him for 2+ years, not speaking out against the racism, the incompetence, the graft...
Second, they know there would be back splash by Trump fanatics in their states … Quite a few lunatics amongst them, provoking those guys takes serious courage.
Third, if they were to discover some kind of moral compass they would have to leave this party that did not hesitate to steal a supreme court slot and supported stonewalling of Russian interference (more in the house than the senate still a disgrace).
Hypocrisy with Democrats forcing regime change in one country without thinking of the consequences. And there WILL be consequences.
Sir - what we see is that there ARE no "principled" Republicans. Short of a few tepid remarks that this situation doesn't look good, the entire Party is solidly behind Mr. Trump. People that stated he was incompetent when he ran are now suddenly his biggest backer (ie. Lindsay Graham). What this demonstrates is a completely lack of ethics, morality and care for the good of the Nation. Our reputation internationally is in tatters, but this doesn't matter to these sycophants. The only thing they value is hanging onto power. The dirty truth is that the GOP doesn't care a bit about the Nation and our Constitution. While Bill Clinton was sleazy I agree, he was not incompetent, he was not corrupt and he didn't invite foreign powers to interfere in our elections so he could hold onto power. Every single member of the Republican Party is culpable in the election of Donald Trump and the wreckage he will leave behind. That includes you.
When a source of invention or service reveals themselves or affiliates in facetime as "honest" or "intelligent" I have to look at them in the eye, and then move my attention to the other eye in order to have a good look at what is behind there deep inside that would require a need for that distinction.
If you are wearing a toga and sipping wine in the way I believe you are it isn't because of Jimmy Carter's economic and environmental initiatives. It isn't because Bill Clinton asked for a definition of what "is" is. The cause of your toga wearing is the Reagan administration's reaction to the Ford White House. If you don't know what i mean, observe William Barr's efforts to secure the Executive Branch through the Supreme Court to run it all through the courts and sidestep congress or senate forums. Elliot Abrams's attempts at running guns in private planes to Central America and beyond again. Erik Prince bidding on new ground wars and John Bolton (rip) with desires to begin what you'd think we would have learned in Iraq in Iran. As Rumsfeld would say, Imagine.
Your toga was not built by the party of MLK or JFK or Bobby. It was built in the Watergate Hotel. It was constructed by J.Edgar Hoover, Roy Cohen and Senator Joe McCarthy. It was built on the Heritage Foundation, The John Birch Society and Jim Crow.
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In a strange way we Democrats can thank the GOP for giving us trump-the-terrible as he has finally awoken the sleepy spineless Democrats. Unfortunately for Republicans Ross I think that he has already demolished your party. The Republicans are no the party of trump. Republicans have hit the "mute"button. This impeachment process will seal their coffin.
Does double jeopardy apply to impreachment? If Trump and Fox manage to spin the current problem as a vicious attack over a perfect phone call by a very honest person, will it be possible to re-impeach Trump in the future for new crimes as they are uncovered?
Nice to have walked with you down the Yellow Brick Road for the length of your Op-Ed piece Mr. Douthat. But, we're not residing in Fantasy-Land anymore than Dorothy is still in Kansas. For even entertaining the notion that you in the slightest disapprove of Trump or, to insinuate that you don't support his reelection, his rabid supporters would tar and feather you and run you out of town on a rail. He is the last president of the Confederacy. The final gasp of their last Great White Hope for Old Dixie and the Lost Cause of the Confederacy. The bedrock of Trump Supporters is racism. If Trump would come out in support of Black Lives Matter 95% of his base would abandon him tomorrow morning.
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Oh Ross, the Republicans have squandered the last 2.5 years, and for what?
We have folks like Mitt Romney and former Senator Jeff Flake living in another world that champions decorum over results. Trump represents a future more conservative (and optimistic) than either of these two, but who among remaining Republicans is willing to join Trump's high ground? Too few. They're a weak-kneed bunch.
Trump is the most pro-USA president we've had in modern times. He boasts about the USA. He champions the USA. He defends the USA. He sees a bright future for the USA. Where are the Republicans backing him up? There are some, but they are either too few or too reticent.
Meanwhile, the "Conservative" Never-Trumpers continue to wax indignant over Trump and his tweets. It's sad to witness.
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He wants clean air, water, healthcare, education for the US...oh, wait, no he doesn’t.
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Trump talks a pro-USA game but that’s it. By his actions he’s accomplishing everything the Soviets tried to achieve during the Cold War. Our standing in the world is diminished. He picks pointless fights with our allies. NATO is on its last legs. He’s got South Korea and Japan at each other’s throats. He’s threatening a war with Iran — to what end?
If Trump is re-elected and serves out a second term, I predict that when he leaves office, the US dollar will no longer be the world’s reserve currency. Because the world no longer trusts the USA. At that point, our troubles will only cascade.
Optimistic? Trump? Whenever it seems things are going well, Trump reverses course, tweets, announces arbitrary tariffs on goods from China, threatens economic friction with another country, and sows more chaos.
Trump is horrible for business, investors and consumers. Anyone who thinks he isn’t is not seeing things clearly.
Well put. We shall see soon whether Republicans in Congress can stand for something besides hypocritical and shameful self-aggrandizement, whether they can finally at least try to differentiate themselves from by far the most disgraceful president ever, and whether they can actually focus on credible visions for the future instead of just reacting with worn-out talking points (necessarily because of their fusion at hip with that most-distrastrous-ever president) laden with deceit and lies. How that turns out will also depend on whether the Democrats in Congress can do their jobs finally, articulate something real, learn how to use their long unused backbones, and hold the Republicans feet to the fire.
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Republicans really could find some logic and honor and guts and then help to remove Trump. And that might just save their sad party and lead to a rebirth of reasoned and reasonable conservatism, which probably does still exist somewhere.
But they are not going to do it. They've become dependent on the voting power of a fading demographic, a demographic that likes stupidity, that appreciates lies, and that celebrates mindless anger.
It is a demographic that can be counted on to vote for whatever foolishness the Republicans dangle before them, as long as it tickles their fancy. Those dependable votes -- like the dependable rush from some drug -- will keep Republicans in line. And it will, like most drugs, ultimately destroy the party.
As a moderate conservative, I miss a rational conservative party. But I won't miss the Republicans.
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ONE MAIN REASON that Mr Douthat's fantasy will remain just that: beneath and beyond the contributions of super-PACs, there is no there there in the Republican Party. In exchange for bribes mislabeled campaign contributions, the GOP has become nothing beyond the tool of short-sighted business executives intent on skimming the last possible dollar for their next bonus. Long term thinking? None. Climate change? Won't happen on my watch, so I don't care. When was the last time you heard an intellectual debate among conservatives about collective private interests versus the interests of the collective as paving stones to Nirvana? I can't remember either. Trump isn't some sort of low point for the Republican Party; he is the logical end-point.
The real question at the heart of impeachment is whether the republic of the United States of America can survive and revive. Seems that the Founders forgot to add in a guarantee for either.
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Douthat refuses to see the key fact: Americans didn't like those other Republicans then, and don't like them any better now.
They lost to Trump, because voters liked them less.
Fresh start without Trump? With who? With what policy?
Same old same old? Douthat might like that, but he's very near alone in thinking so.
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There is no reason that the United States of America should last forever. It is, as Justice Holmes said, "an experiment, as all life is an experiment." It may be that government of the people, by the people, and for the people shall and ought to perish from the earth--for the straightforward reason that the people are no better than their base, and that it is the base in a democracy that holds the cards, rather than the so-called elites they profess to scorn.
Politicians are supposed to also be leaders and patriots. But they can't get by the politics part. Their brains are programmed to do what they think it takes to get reelected. Nothing else matters. It wasn't always this way. But now, you can't expect any politician to take a position that he thinks would hurt himself politically. (Look at the transformation of Lindsay Graham.)
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I don't understand Douthat's need for the false equivalence caused by bringing Bill Clinton into the picture. I guess it's just a habit now as natural as breathing for any conservative to search for a Democrat whose sins could be deemed as bad as what we witness from the members of this compromised party.
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"My days of writing high-dudgeon columns demanding that Republicans act in concert against Trump are behind me; cynicism and bemusement define my attitude toward G.O.P. decadence these days."
I feel you hard on that one, my man. Lately, I can't decide whether I want to weep or laugh at the tragic farce we call American Politics. The longer I live, the more I begin to believe that there's no good thing that human beings are capable of ruining, including the institution of Democracy.
"He that troubleth his own house shall inherit the wind."
It's Category 5, and Republicans are determined to use that Trump nuke on it, though it's already made landfall. Because stealing elections is all you are left with when actually winning them fair and square eludes you.
Even bad life under Trump might have been less toxic if "decent" Republicans had exhibited a shred of spine for decency, much less patriotism.
I think Warren has a plan for that. Even if I disagree with her ideas, I trust her integrity.
1
It would be to the GOP's advantage to remove Trump as soon as possible. Standing by Trump under the present circumstances will stain the GOP for years to come. Those appalled at Trump, a large majority, will never forgive it.
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The fantasy that Ross indulges in is that there is a "legitimate" Republican party sans Trump and that it has ideas that a majority of voters might like. What exactly is conservatism? In my 50 years, it has been lowering taxes for the wealthy, taking abortion rights from women, increasing deregulation, purging black and brown voters, starting conspiracy stories, obstructing a legitimate president in caring out his duties, starting unnecessary wars, increasing the size of government, increasing deficits, etc.... Nothing more.
And, those halcyon days of pre-Trump that Ross imagines the Republicans were just as corrupt as the current administration - they just knew to maintain a veneer of respectability. In considering administrations from 1961 - 2016, please consider these statistics:
Democrats: 7 indictments, 3 convictions, 1 prison time.
Republicans: 126 indictments, 133 convictions, 39 prison times.
Where are the well reasoned policy prescriptions that can be honestly sold to the American people without conjuring up images of black and brown people benefiting from white people's tax dollars? Where are statesman who care about the country?
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"Last exit from Trumpland" to what? A Republican return to the Globalists and the Neocons, a la the Bushes and Reagan? Not happening. That's the mistake you're making: You think Trump is the phenomenon, but in reality it's the times we're in (mostly driven by demographic shifts). These political changes aren't tied to any one person.
There are probably many Republicans thinking that they can hang in there with the President, and I think to myself, which seat do you want on the Titanic...
I see a problem with Mr. Douthat's analysis: He appears to believe that the Republican party, and conservatism in general, can just move on and pretend that the Trump debacle never happened.
It's not going to be so easy. The Republican party is the party that inflicted the madness of president Trump upon America and the planet--in spite of all the pre-election indications of his unfitness for office. The Republican party going forward is the party of Trump; the party of madness--not to be taken seriously intellectually.
Yes, impeaching and convicting Trump would give the GOP a chance at renewing itself with a less corrupt leadership, and would be smart for the GOP. But it will not work. The GOP doesn't really exist without those who blame the poor for poverty and worship the rich, those who are bigots and racists, those who are convinced that the world's greatest problem is abortion and laws against abortion save lives (in spite of facts to the contrary), those who manipulate the system to stay in power as a minority, and those whose lack of critical thinking skills prevent them from recognizing that they are being fooled into voting against their best interests.
What Douthat labels as "extreme" for the Democrats is a form of democratic socialism that is mainstream in most of the rest of the developed world, where people have longer, safer, and healthier lives. We might have to wait another generation or two, but over the long-term the Democratic Socialists will win the hearts and minds of Americans. Meanwhile, the long-term survival of the US will be in question, and talk of splintering the country into "blue" and "red" countries will become mainstream within a decade.
1
… and then you’re just a few Republicans of principle away from 20.
This brings to mind the story in Genesis 18 where Abraham negotiates with God, and gets God to pledge to not destroy a wicked city if there are 10 righteous found within the city. Alas, there were not 10, much less 20.
2
Normally, Mr Douthat keeps the bar for liberal leaders (Pope Francis. President Obama) so high that none can pass. He keeps the bar for conservative leaders so low that none can fail.
This time it's different. President Trump's phone call with President Zelensky is the equivalent of shooting a man in broad daylight on 5th Avenue. It was too egregious for Mr Douthat to hold his nose and look the other way!
Now its just the fair and balanced journalists who (with a few honourable exceptions) approve of this blatant attempt to skew the next election.
Nicely done Ross. Thanks for your great writing and perspective.
The Trump coalition consists of 3 elements;
1 People that watch wrestling and reality tv (they used to be apolitical now they support Trump because he entertains them.
2 The white pride movement. Includes most middle income whites and vast majorities of poor whites. They know that they get nothing other than Trump mirroring their rage back at them. This includes the evangelicals. They are 100% with Trump.
3 Country Club Republicans. These want money and Trump gives it to them. Presently this is an unbeatable voting coalition. Trump will be impeached, not removed, and then re-elected.
I do think this is a moment when Republicans had better come to their senses and recognize the truth about the man they are defending. Why ruin your reputation permanently defending this creepy man? Failure to do so now, as far as I am concerned, means you are not fit for public office.
Where I disagree with Ross is his fantasy scenario about moderate Republicans taking the helm and winning the next Presidential election. Republicans need to take a whipping such as they have never seen, all but banishing them from governance. Only then might they learn the lessons that they have been so resistant to learning, most important among them honesty and humility.
And someone among them, or perhaps all of them, need to apologize to the nation for the role they have played in allowing this nightmare to continue. Based on what we've seen from the party leadership, I'm not holding my breath.
Do not ignore that impeachment hearings could surface information that takes Pence down with Trump.
Buskirk says not one word about the deeds of Trump, only that impeachment may not be politically expedient. Only that Trump has more teflon that Bill Clinton ever had. He said not one word about Trump's deeds because we all know what Trump's intentions were.
I for see great difficulty for the Republican Party and the Christian Right, in the post Trump Era. They have violated their fundamental principles for political expediency, no just once or twice, but on an almost continuous basis. While at the same time Trump is playing them for fools. I fail to see how they can have any credibility for their views going forward. The Republicans, cannot talk about debt restraint, about respect for the rule of law, about decency. The Christian Right likewise cannot talk about moral values, respect for women, truthfulness, about how sacred the institution of marriage is. Both of these groups have betrayed these values and everything else they claim to hold dear, by supporting someone who violates those values and shows absolutely no remorse in doing so. Trump has single handily destroyed to of the pillars of the Right.
Last chance. Maybe, but they won’t.
Can anyone explain the support for Trump? - not the cynical fearful backing of the Republicans in Congress but the 91% of Republicans out there in the country whose apparently unalloyed enthusiasm is sincere and heartfelt? As an AOC lefty, but with, I like to think, clear eyes about the body politic in America, I simply continue to not understand how anyone with half a conscience and half a percipience about real ethics and patriotism can ignore the detestable personal characteristics, but also the bald treason simply for the sake of his businesses and his clamorous ego? What drives the Republican support? What do they see about Trump that I cannot?
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If impeachment occurs, who is to say that McConnell will convene the senate for a trial?
That "thousand yard stare" is the Republican who used to have a conscience watching from the void now left inside.
The Faustian bargain of defending such a morally vacuous man who slithered into power and has done untold harm has its consequences.
The Grand Old Party needs to do penance, not just hope to get by after the Dems do the hard work.
1
Trump and his Senate supporters are not conservatives - they are, in fact and deed, extreme reactionaries.
1
This is the last off-ramp for Republicans. Trump has maneuvered/coopted most of the GOP to where their only option to impeachment and conviction is a scorched-earth election possibly not to their liking.
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What a strange and depressing column. It blatantly says that the constitution, truth, and consequences do not figure into the current state of politics in this country. Raw power is all that matters. It is not directed to the citizenry, who are mere pawns, or even to most politicians, but to those whom Douthat considers to be the the Cardinal Richelieus of the Republican party. I hadn't seen such Machiavellian calculation in previous Douthat columns, and it makes me wonder how often I'd been duped.
1
Rudderless? Isn’t that a bit charitable?
Trump MAY BE at best asleep at the wheel while the even more malevolent actors of the GOP like McConnell, Mulvaney and Barr are steering us straight over the cliff of autocracy.
Rudderless definitely isn’t the right analogy.
1
1. Mr. Douthat writes as if anyone in the current Republican field is not irrevocably trained by their association with and acquiescence to Mr. Trump. His corruption and unfitness was there for all to see, and they still signed on. They are disqualified from the "grownup table" forever more.
2. I was competent unable to access this opinion from any of my PC browsers. I had to read it on my phone. Please, NYT, do not experiment with funky layouts until you first adequately test them.
To my many liberal friends, image that the Democratic Party has been shanghaied by a hate mongering demagogue. With backing from Congress, he is advancing environmental protection, securing unrestricted women's health care, packing the federal courts with like-minded justices and even get some gun legislation passed. It's Shangri-la. But his management skills are chaotic, his leadership questionable and his siblings are clearly engaged in corrupt profiteering around the Globe. And these rumors of foreign interference in our elections just won't go away.
Image also that the opposition looks so detestable, Mitch McConnell and Ted Cruz and Sean Hannity, Fox News and Info Wars.
The choice however is either your man doing all the things you like or the opposition intent on trampling all your recent gains.
Wouldn't you be reluctant to cross over? Inclined to excuse some of your leader's excesses? And having once done so, find it difficult - perhaps impossible - to reverse course.
Trump is a monster to be sure. And the Republicans have embraced him without condition. For them the choice is either continue with the monster or face the void.
As a registered Republican I'm glad I abandoned my party long ago. Truly, I feel sorry for my many conservative friends.
But I feel a much greater sorry for our Country.
My plea all along to my GOP friends: yes you can vote him out, (in 2020) and still maintain your conservative values, your principles, and your integrity. Impeachment is a big, beautiful gift to Republicans because now they can do so without voting for Warren or any other Dem.
The altitude of moral anguish limned here is positively Buckleyian in its estrangement from living embodiment.
Eschew obfuscation.
If I was Republican strategist and was really most interested in ruling over the long term, getting rid of Trump now is a no-brainer.
Elect a Dem as next President -- they have no chance of fixing the mess in four years. Blame them, wash your hands clean, and reset the vision. GOP is great at that, praying on voters' short memories.
Republicans then have the next 8 years starting from 2024.
Would be better if there was no political calculus and they would for once call out Trump and his cronies for the criminals they are. Especially since the GOP claims to own patriotism.
My gut, however, is that they just hunker down and go along with it... and miss the big picture. Nothing to think otherwise.
The best outcome for GOP.
More concrete evidence shows up through the impeachment process.
The pressure builds up. Trump will resign and get a pardon from Pence and an agreement from Democrats that no more law suits against him.
Lots of Trump hater Democrats will be satisfied and not bothered to vote in 2020.
The old decent “original GOP” will be back and win 2020.
By losing 2020, the progressive wing of Democrat will rise up.
We will see!
One sad truth is that four more years of Trump is better than boring or destructive four years by any candidate of Democratic Party. Destroy the party, this news paper, the other paper, and cnn. Then, make a new party with Jeff Bezos, Eric Schmit, or Bill Gates to take a fresh new start. Only useful and credible elites are tech and entrepreneurial ones. Discard all others. They are all zombies erected from thought graves of toxic carcasses dead for more than two centuries.
The phrase “Careful what you wish for” comes to mind. When you consider how President Trump has motivated “the resistance”, it is important to consider the 2020 election impact if the Republican nominee was Mike Pence, or Mark Sanford? While I fundamentally disagree with the majority of the policy positions of both men, the arguments about incompetence, a lack of integrity, and the “isms”; race and sex, dissipate. It would be instructive to see polling of other potential Republican nominees against the top tier of Democratic contenders. Unfortunately, the time to consider that outcome has passed. If President Pence, or Sanford, or “Republican TBD” is inaugurated in January 2021, the Democrats will have no one to blame but themselves.
Delayed reading the column, like avoiding hyped hit shows until hype-free reruns. Now that I've read Mr. Douthat's imaginative column, I fear some of his speculations may be realistic. I am nauseated, seasick aboard his ship of state.
Elizabeth Warren, please come true. I am blue.
The mere thought of four more years of Trump sends waves of nausea throughout my system and ruins the greater part of my day. If, by the grace of the archaic Electoral Collage and a bunch of giddy voters, Trump does prevail, then the universal suffrage system of elections has failed miserably.
When a large group of people champion a disaster like Trump, it is time to adjust our thinking about the worth of our citizenry and the society it produced.
I have never before given campaign contributions for a candidate outside of my state, but I have made several contributions to Amy McGraff's campaign, and will make several more. McConnell's immoral deeds affect all of the country, not just Kentucky, and we need him gone.
2
Time for all of us to realize that we need sane conservatives as much as we need sane progressives. I admit the sanity looks a little tipped to one side at present, but without this petty wanna be dictator, perhaps we still have a chance. Give Ross a break here.
Alternatively, if Trump can convince America that the Ukraine and Democrats, not Russia, were behind the foreign interference in the 2016 election, imagine the “quid pro quo” he will have achieved for 2020. In one stroke, he will have destroyed the credibility of the Mueller report, Biden and his son, and congressional Democrats; Trump will then become a virtual shoe in for 2020.
Mr. Douthat, from here it looks as though the only thing that distinguishes Trump from your current day garden variety Republican is his lack of subtlety. Otherwise, his agenda is pure GOP, and pure poison for democracy. I do find myself in agreement with you on one thing, though - if re-elected Trump will spell the end of the GOP. So, you know, you're tempting us. If it weren't all so utterly existential, I'd almost go for it for that reason alone.
From your pen to God's ear. I'd be stunned if it really happened.
1
I have always believed eventually Trump will not just be impeached, but removed, that is until I saw this on cable news: “I think you should ask for Vice President Pence’s conversation, because he had a couple of conversations also,” Trump said at a news conference during the United Nations General Assembly meeting in New York on Wednesday. Throwing Pence under the bus is his insurance against removal. Many senators might indeed remove him, but not if it means Nancy Pelosi becomes the 46th president of the United States.
32
Senator Jeff Flake, said it best. There are 35 Republicans Senators that would secretly vote for Trump's impeachment. The party is at a tipping point, while Trump speaks of spies and traitors, and his wish that they be dealt with harshly. The final authoritarian's lament. Trump doesn't recognize the impulse to survive, the survival instinct of others, he is so immersed in his own hubris and perfection. Simply put, republicans need to save themselves and the party they belong to. They can do so through impeachment.
40
This would be an elegant move by the Republicans.
But they'll let this train leave the last station without getting on board.
3
If Trump wins a second term (a very real possibility in my view). Justice Ginsburg will not be able to hold on. I assume she would retire almost immediately. If the Senate doesn't flip, then the country will have a 6/3 strongly conservative court - not for 4 more years - but maybe 20 or more. If the senate does flip then maybe, just maybe, Ginsburg's replacement would be a right-centrist and we would have a few 5/4 decisions that don't pervert of the Constitution.
At some point the number of Justices will just be increased to overcome this...if the US still has fair elections.
"Outside the ranks of the truest Trump believers, most Republicans anticipate very bad things in 2022 and 2024 if the Trump Show continues uninterrupted." A close to perfect depiction of Conservative myopia, Douthat-style: If Trump is re-elected, what will happen in 2022 and 2024. Specifically, I infer, on election day. Because all that will matter is the outcome of elections, right, Ross? Nothing that happens to actual human beings in between elections. Nothing that matters: Just mass shootings, kis in cages, a middle class sinking to oblivion, 40 percent of the population at or below the poverty level, ongoing trade war, maybe another middle east war. But I get it, none of that matters, does it, Ross. Fetuses will be safe. So the only real problem facing you an your professional conservative pals is, Will there be a place for us? Of course there will be a place for you, Ross. There'll always be a place for you. Because there'll always be a market for glib young men and women who can craft psueo-intellectual copy that covers for the likes of the Koch brothers, et al. In fact, I see the market expanding for you: There's going to be big demand for conservative scribes to write odes to the joys of wealth and income inequality, climate crises and the subsequent forced mass migrations. You'll have a field day.
3
if Trump were to win (God Help Us) in 2020--it would lead to the G.O.P.'s "accelerative deterioration". Not only the Republicans would become effete. The U.S.A. itself would lose its world- power status, lose its moral stature as a beacon of decency and democracy. And the worsening physical climate would add to the aura of loss and increasing peril for the vast majority of people.
Prior to Trump, there was a long period of government doing little to help people face the problems of money, health, education, and debt. Trump won because he came as an iconoclast ready to tear down and demolish the icons of capitalism and clean out the swamp. Jobs would be protected "like never before" and money would be earned with pride and ease "like never before". To his base, Trump is still accepted as a modern Messiah--who only needs a little more time to fulfill his mission. He has shown himself ---but only to the educated and well-read--- as a charlatan who is incapable of doing much and would rather feather his own nest than help the poor and lower classes. But not so to his base.
And the politicians who support his are the same as before They seem to be in this business because its a nice well-paying prestigious position and as long as they don't cross the boss or the money men who finance campaigns, as long as they play ball and do what moneyed class wants, they can keep their job. Trump primary goal is staying in power. And nothing more.
4
I like your cool new attitude, it seems like those who support, nay, *love* Trump, see him, as you point out, as more of a battering ram or hammer to crush the ‘elites’. Theirs is a vision of vengeance, not infrastructure building, healthcare reform, or even a modicum of income reform, and for them it is important that ‘we’ hate Trump. And, I do.
4
There are Republican tickets, other than Trump and Pence, who
could make an election against Elizabeth Warren, Bernie or Joe Biden very close. Haley, Kasich and another governor, senator, congressman or retired general or two could do it.
1
I am amazed at how many people can't see the writing on the wall. The position of the national democratic party today is roughly analogous to that of the republicans from FDR to Reagan. Strong regionally and able to elect the occasional president, but definitely the minority. The dual obsession with Identity politics and climate hysteria have doomed them, outside of the coastal elites and Big Media, Academia, etc. Yeah, I know, the 2018 mid-terms belie this. Go ahead, give The Squad and Liz Warren more and more prominence, see what happens. The fact that a candidate as problematic as Trump could win should be all you need to know. Wait till 2024, when we can have Trump policies without the Trump baggage.
If the population of the US outside of the coastal areas are as limited intellectually as you describe, maybe the focus should be on education, starting now. For how can anyone look at the last three years and think that this is what is good for America. Could it be that smart people actually could be the driving force for a better country? This is how many people looking at the US from outside its borders see matters. Backwards thinking a la Trump and his cronies can not possibly advance any nation.
No, it’s a reflection of the total moral and ethical decay among a significant part of the electorate.
"Outside the ranks of the truest Trump believers, most Republicans anticipate very bad things in 2022 and 2024 if the Trump Show continues uninterrupted."
A close to perfect depiction of Conservative myopia, Douthat-style: If Trump is re-elected, what will happen in 2022 and 2024. Specifically, I infer, on election day. Because all that will matter is the outcome of elections, right, Ross? Nothing that happens to actual human beings in between elections. Nothing that matters: Just mass shootings, kis in cages, a middle class sinking to oblivion, 40 percent of the population at or below the poverty level, ongoing trade war, maybe another middle east war.
But I get it, none of that matters, does it, Ross. Fetuses will be safe. So the only real problem facing you an your professional conservative pals is, Will there be a place for us? Of course there will be a place for you, Ross. There'll always be a place for you. Because there'll always be a market for glib young men and women who can craft psueo-intellectual copy that covers for the likes of the Koch brothers, et al. In fact, I see the market expanding for you: There's going to be big demand for conservative scribes to write odes to the joys of wealth and income inequality, climate crises and the subsequent forced mass migrations. You'll have a field day.
3
I rarely agree with your brand of conservatism, Ross, but you have done your readers a service by suggesting one path to a conviction. As you suggest, the GOP has to be forward thinking and imagine a time post-Trump in order to rehabilitate itself and more deftly engage the changes in contemporary reality.
Unfortunately, it will not happen. The Republicans are locked into a mindset of preserving a fading past and winning at any cost. Forget bipartisanship. Democrats at this juncture understand that they have to act in order to preserve a fair election.
If McConnell gets wind of a rebellion in the works, he will no doubt change the rules or quash the impeachment when the proceeding arrives at the Senate.
The interesting question is what will be left of the GOP after Trump.
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I offered the same hypothesis just the other day. Impeaching and removing Trump will actually make Republicans more competitive in 2020.
Imagine either alternative scenario for a point of contrast.
The Republican Senate unanimously votes to acquit Trump in a Kangaroo Kourt devised with Mitch McConnell's greatest efforts at avoiding impartial deliberation and justice. You can easily see how all those not-quite-twenty Senators are in deep, deep trouble for any continued career. Even Romney is at risk if he votes to acquit. Utah doesn't like Trump. He'll get primaried in his next election if he doesn't retire out of shame first.
The other option: The not-quite-twenty Senators break rank with McConnell but Republicans still fall short of conviction. Trump is acquitted by a condemning margin and he becomes an intruder in his own home. Republicans have a year to sort out the disconnect before losing the Senate to Democrats while facing the possibility of a Warren presidency. All this with Trump's dead weight still on their backs.
Any conservative should seriously start considering conviction as a viable alternative. The explanation for Johnson's acquittal was that no president would ever be allowed to disagree with Congress again. Imagine what Trump's survival would mean for the office of the presidency and the Republican Party specifically. It's not a pretty picture.
3
Ross, one of the commenters here mentioned that Jessica Ocasio-Cortez turns 35 in 2024, just in time for that year’s presidential election. If she’s a Democratic front runner, or someone cut from the same cloth, you won’t have time to worry about the state of the Republican Party.
4
It its not likely that 20 Republican senators will vote to remove Trump, although the prospect is delicious. Trump's spin and big lies are very persuasive to those who support him, despite the fact that he has done absolutely nothing to benefit them. Apparently his supporters admire his break everything, thuggish approach to established values and black ink law. One has to lament how they regard themselves and how they influence their children. Mean spiritedness and denial of decency are their rallying call. We can hope that enough decent people will participate in the 2020 election and turn the Trump supporters out Trump and Republican members of Congress and the Senate. Then we will have a chance of fair healthcare law, desperately needed infrastructure improvement and beneficial immigration law.
1
It's hard to imagine anything other than more chaos coming out of a second Trump term but the resulting demise of the Republican Party in its present form would be a deserved result.
4
Here is one possible outcome . The Republicans have found that Trump so far has been a useful tool for them. They have been able to pack the Federal courts with conservative judges, enact a extreme tax bill that sticks it to the blue states, deregulate beyond their wildest dreams. & add 2 conservative associate SC judges. I wonder if Senator McConnell may just decide to pull the rug out from underneath Trump? I look at this way. McConnell sees that Trump's re-election is not in the bag. if Pence were to be sworn in there is a good chance that Republicans keep both the Senate & the WH. I am no fan of either of these two let alone McConnell. The senator may protest against Pelosi's decision but in the end he is a very calculating fellow. Trump is damaged goods and the situation is only going to become even crazier over the net few weeks. Pence will be as useful to him as Trump. who may think that with his two lackies, Rudy and Barr he can ride this out. He underestimates McConnell's political instincts. Eventually the tide will turn. Pelosi is smart and there is more than ample evidence to impeach. Give someone a rope to hang themselves...which Trump may have just done. All that is needed is to kick the box out from under him. If Trump can be elected why not Pence? I know that for myself & many others that is a disquieting thought. Never though underestimate how a politician can be packaged.
4
There are precious few differences between Trump and the Republican base. He is an expression of the id of the American Conservative movement, an id used by Nixon, Reagan (Lee Atwater), Bush I (remember the ad), and Bush II, who should have been impeached for the thousands of unnecessary US and hundreds of thousands of unnecessary Iraqi deaths he lied us into. Not to mention the 2008, which was a direct result of mainstream conservative economic policy.
The unitary executive has been a feature of Republican orthodoxy for decades ("If the president does it, it isn't a crime," is only slightly more extreme than it's more nuanced expression.)
You're not a Roman aristocrat, although I can see how that would be a right wing fantasy. (Why did you choose to be a slave owner? I suppose, "I was ignorant of what I was saying," is a possible response.)
You're one of the people who spent his adult life building the edifice that is American conservative. It's too bad you don't remember using Trump's and his ilk's worst impulses as part of the foundation.
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Thanks for putting it so eloquently. It behooves Americans to remember that Trump, being the empty narcissistic husk he is, merely reflects the society that feeds his pathological impulses. He is more symptom than cause.
My bleeding liberal heart thanks you, Ross, even though you failed to mention that senators like McConnell and Graham and congressmen like Nunes and Gohmer are as dangerous as the mad emperor who thinks he's a President.
My fervent hope is that this entire administration disappears and is never seen again-not even on Dancing With The Stars.
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Mr. Douthat,
I too contemplate a post-Trump world. But I also contemplate it in the context of what will also become of the Democratic Party. Both political parties face the burden of extremism. So while the extremists of both parties pitch a never-ending fight between each other, those of us who hope and pray for a return to sane and intelligent governing in Washington will have to settle for being in the state of limbo. And this could go on for a very, very long time.
1
What you call extremism of the Democratic party is a mild form of Social
Democracy. This ideology brought higher standard of living to most European countries than has ever been seen anywhere. Add to that
equality in every aspect of life in society. A free press, a just
and fair Judiciary, healthy and competitive economy and free education for most.
It is time to give up the notion that Social Democracy as promoted by many of the Democratic Party is some form of extremism. It is a true and tried ideology that has served people well where it is practised.
What you overlook, as do the Democrats, is Trump’s very high approval among Republican voters, who would see a successful impeachment as exactly the coup you hopefully described, and would rightly be both irate and alienated from the party. We are a democracy and an political scheme in which a few hundred privileged politicians overturn an election is
And Mr. Douthat did not even mention the ultimate horror possibly waiting for Republicans and conservatives (and some others) if Trump escapes impeachment and is re-elected—Alexandria Ocasio Cortez turns 35 in October 2024.
1
Is what you are saying that the Republican Party should take a pass on winning the presidency in 2020 so that all the headaches caused by the republicans can be placed at the foot of the next democratic president?
I thought so.
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Twenty Republicans don't even need to vote. Mitch can tell Trump that the votes aren't there and give him the chance to resign before he's found guilty a la Nixon.
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Mr Douthat, I am appreciating your evolution of thought on Trump and the GOP. I also loved your mention of Adam Sandler--I keep contending that today's conservatives (I live in Steve King's district) wouldn't know Adam Smith from Adam Sandler. Trump has hollowed out the Republican Party of the intellectual conservatives (though, I still consider that an oxymoron). Once a Republican at a time when a very decent man, Bob Ray, was Iowa's governor, I now have trouble imagining how any thoughtful, empathetic person could be a Republican.
What I wonder, is will there be a phoenix-like rational Republican Party emerge, or will there be a new name and party for thinking former Republicans who are only a bit right of center. Will those who are the true Trumpists simply have to die off in a steadily dying Republican Party.
5
Well said.
I think that if 2020 goes GOP - even if "just enough" - this Nation will be lost for MUCH longer than I'll live and even perhaps my grandkids will live. The Courts will be packed - real secular liberal democracy will have no firewall to protect it.
It wil be ugly - really ugly for so many - forget the FDR New Deal let alone modern progressive agenda.
And throw in that the environment will be cast against us without mitigation - even with help from the GOP!
Shades of 1930s Europe in my mind. That the electorate will - and yes they WILL - allow this is so so so sad. I am a war veteran - for what - this?!? Have we no soul - no REAL christianity/patriotism?
Fellow citizens please prove me wrong - please do the right thing 2020! Vanquishing GOP is our only hope.
All I can say is that this is HILLARIOUS! Ross, I didn't know you had such a sense of humor.
Seriously - what you are describing is a proposal that, rather than being "conservative," is decidedly risky and ambitious. So, naturally, there's no way enough members of the so-called "conservative" party would ever be willing to follow this path for the removal of Trump to occur.
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The way things are going the GOP could just stay the course and in the post Trump era just look for and get behind the next Trump, who will be even worse.
3
"But we’re fantasizing here, my dear Petronius . . ."
All your wishful thinking and unlikely outcomes just ain't gonna happen, Ross. Today's Republicans in congress constitute a mostly small-minded group of people, some even crazier than the president. What makes you think that twenty heros will step up to the line knowing their future of coddling-lobbyists and the high life will be over soon after? Dream on, Ross. It ain't gonna happen.
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I want to believe you. I wish we had more GOP Senators like those of yore, who finally told Nixon that his number was up.
Once either party started putting re-election again of the nation's good, we became a failed democracy, at the national level. Getting rid of this toxic man is only a start. Real reform is going to take amending the Constitution, to ensure that no one can become rich by serving in Congress, that we have term limits there and on the Supreme Court, that the People United decision is not only undone but can never happen again.
And so much more. I don't know that our leaders are willing. They are wealthy, can stay parked in office for life in many cases, and they have health care.
I've more optimism about the American people. Not a lot, but more.
3
At some point, some Republican senators will hit a conscience bottom, and say to themselves, “I can't do this anymore.” And when one or two come clean, others will follow. Let’s hope that this is that time and that enough of them are feeling the weight of their conscience.
4
Thanks Ross for providing a look to a future where the oil spill that is Donald Trump has been cleaned up as much as possible and the ship of state returns to a well charted course.
I believe, thanks to opinion columnists conservative, liberal, centrist alike, and the investigative reporters endlessly seeking the facts, the 4th Estate is the spear that will pierce the soft underbelly of Trump's internet trolling and the trolls who feed him. May they never lay down their pens.
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I’ll vote for any dem over trump. Would lean strongly toward Haley if she were running against Biden, warren or Bernie. Ross has a plan!
Ross - exceptional! You, as always, find and articulate a nuance. I’m just dumbfounded how an entire party supports this attack on our democracy. I simply don’t get how with anti- republican efforts they support him because he has their colors on. What I see is much worse for our democracy. If the elected republicans can’t support what’s be defined and maintained in our constitution now then we have progressed down the slippery slope to something dangerous and will never be able to return. There is still time and still hope they can do what’s right. But based on the incremental attacks and seemingly “it’s not that bad” mentality, it appears it will keep going.
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Putting this current drama aside, the main question is how did close to 100% of the Republicans in Congress become so corrupt? And how did they become so enabling of people like Trump and McConnell? Remember, the Republicans have walked in lockstep for a long time now to the point that i can't remember any of them being truly people of courage and people who fight to protect our democracy.
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Fantastic column Ross. I loved reading this. I have heard it said that if the impeachment vote were secret, we would have 35 Republican Senators on tap to vote for the president's removal today. The only thing required for the USA to exit Trumpland is for those Senators to have the courage of their convictions, stand up and be counted.
6
Ross, great piece. You mentioned a key name, Mitt Romney. I am a Democratic leaning independent who has a great deal of respect for Senator Romney. I have had conversations with colleagues who are members of the teacher’s union or related personnel like myself, who feel as I do, you can trust Mitt. We are not for Medicare for all and would support Romney over Warren. Senator Romney has to know that he can be elected in 2020. Trump’s dishonesty has made “honest Mitt” look.even better. And let us remember that in a debate against Barack (who i strongly supported), Mitt was quick to warn that the “ Russians are our greatest threat” while Barack scoffed. Romney- Kasich, a winner for America.
2
Support Mitt and goodbye teachers union and goodbye benefits. He’s not a friend.
1
Mitt sure sounds great when he voices "concern", but like his sista' Senator Susan Collins in Maine, he's all talk. You sure can trust him to talk the talk, but not walk the walk when it comes to this president.
Public officials are sworn to do their duty.
Country before party.
3
The problems with current Republicanism center around policy or lack thereof. They want and have stood by the anti-Obama approach to health care, which is passe, unpopular and ineffective. Letting the free markets run the show will never fly, after all we've been through.
They are a thoughtless and feckless party on climate change. They think that clinging to "it's not real" or "we can get by without talking about it" are their best defenses against it.
On foreign policy, after Trump's damage toward crafting a world order with allies to help keep it, they can't figure out whether they are isolationist, unilateralist or leaning multilateralist, and they will have to decisively turn the page and eradicate Trump's influence to set a new course (they will, of course, be saddled with the deep problem of reversing Trump's mocking of multilateralism as it is the only viable course for reestablishing American hegemony).
In terms of tax cuts, they have never seen one for the wealthy they didn't like, and that will also be a deeply unpopular stance if they try it again. In a changing world, they will always be several strides behind, and always using fear of progress as their sole mantra for fiscal policy. The party doesn't stand for fiscal responsibility and will have to do major rehabilitation to assure voters that this is their long-term commitment.
Problems, problems and more problems unless they renounce Trumpism and their misdirection in past decades.
3
I’m puzzled by Mr Douthat’s phrase “20 Republicans (senators) of principle.”
There are none. If there were, they would have stood up in public to be counted at some time over the past 3 years, regardless of their prospects of re-election.
On the contrary, they are all complicit. They cannot exculpate themselves by muttering behind closed doors, or “off the record”, or by taking the easy way out by not standing for re-election.
Political life everywhere and in every era has always been rife with self-dealing. But almost never a single voice raised against corruption amongst those who might curb it tells its own story about a political party.
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"...or by taking the easy way out by not standing for re-election."
Just as around 20 Republican House members have done.
1
My sentiments exactly. Does Ross Douthat seriously believe that the likes of Nikki Haley, Marco Rubio, or Ted Cruz form some sort of anti-Trumpist movement in the Republican Party? They are all slavish supporters of Trump. Nikki Haley spent two years as his faithful mouthpiece at the United Nations and left office with a ringing declaration that she wanted Trump to be re-elected. In fact, they all support his re-election, the litmus test of their obedience to Trump.
Oh, they privately express their dislike of him? Wow. What an explicit revelation of the fact that, in addition to having no worthwhile policies to offer us, they are sniveling cowards to boot. And these are the people that Douthat sees as the saviors of the Republican Party? What an admission that the GOP is morally and intellectually bankrupt, overdue to be placed in the dustbin of history.
Honestly, I don't see the scenario outlined here as that fantastical, for a few reasons: A) young, ambitious Republican Senators know the American public would be ready to rid the country of the party altogether after a disastrous second Trump term, B) Trump would set up Ivanka as his chosen successor, thereby denying Rubio and Haley et al any oxygen for a primary, C) Republicans, by all account, loathe the man personally, D) everyone knows there is a strong possibility he will encourage a civil war if he doesn't win next November.
I've thought this for a few days now: the House impeaches, the Senate works behind the scenes to gather the 20 votes necessary before any trial begins, a group of senior Republicans goes to 1600 and tells the President it's over. He can either resign on his own terms or suffer history's humiliation of being the first and only President forcibly removed from the White House. Given that chance, I think he might resign.
Maybe it's wishful thinking. But the facts -- facts he himself has admitted to already! -- are so against him that it may well prove both impossible to defend him and irresistible to start the post-Trump era sooner rather than later.
7
As long as Never-Trumpers have no idea how to go on GOP has no interest to oust Mr Trump. GOP was done after the G. W. days. There is no idea of working conservatism in the age of big social problems, a tremendous reform backlog, urgent needs to "repair the political system" as Mr Obama once has said and foreign relationships at present. Think tank drivel is a joke. Everybody knows.
Then came Trump with his MAGA phoney narrative, his way to enforce badly required central party discipline and the most Important Christmas present for a mono-issue tax-cut party: A giant tax-cut. If they ousted him they would fall back to their big hole empty of any common idea Mr. Douthat is trying to romantizing away all the time . His columns are often based in a long gone past lacking a suitable concept for the future. There's no way back. Maybe he will get it one day. He seems to be closer now. But in front of the conservative political business there is nobody else than Trump and that means his ways also.
So Cons stick to him to him just to keep power and not to fall in their hole empty of viable thoughts again. Moral outrage is not so important for them because in opposite to Democrats GOP knows that It doesn't help so much in practice and they really don't care sometimes in their own affairs.
2
Interesting column.
Yes, I wonder if some elected Republicans are starting to do the math: maybe impeachment isn't the worst thing that could happen to the party.
With the slate wiped clean, they could put a new face forward.
I have to imagine the serious-minded Republicans must be tiring of the endless Trump dramas.
6
Ross, you've outdone yourself, both in your self-deprecating self-portrayal of a Roman patrician and in your cogent description of the opportunity this presents for those Republicans who care about the fate of their party, if not their country. You rightly dim expectations that this number will come even close to 20 in the Senate. If the stakes weren't so high for our country, I would derive great pleasure and illumination watching all 52? of them work through their political and moral dilemma.
2
As a former Republican, I wish Mr. Douthat's dream would come to fruition. Alas, this seems impossible. The party has lost itself. In distilling the core beliefs of conservatism into a handful of largely non-sensical talking points, and relying on an 'alternative fact' media ecosystem to transmit those talking points, conservatism has become a perversion of itself. Conservatives didn't want to believe certain facts about the world, so the conservative elite created an alternative fact world where they had to see and hear no evil.
Unfortunately, that ecosystem has grown beyond its creators' control. Fox and the Murdoch empire now serve as safe spaces for conservatives to perpetuate falsehoods and conspiracy theories predicated on nothing more than the words used to create them in the first place. It's impossible to argue against a person who not only believes in falsehoods, but is prepared to create them from whole cloth whenever it suits them. It's the nature of paranoiacs. Anything you say that contradicts their previously held beliefs only serves as another reason why you're part of the conspiracy.
The Republican Party in conjunction with its media partners has so perverted conservatism at this point that the elites can no longer control the message even when the evidence supporting the message is incontrovertible. That's the problem with unleashing the mob--no matter how much control you think you may have, you'll eventually lose control.
9
Since he is detached enough to read the handwriting on the wall, Douthat and other intelligent, moral conservatives might use this catastrophe in their party to reforn their own personal philosophies that motivated them to oppose righteous progressive causes and give the benefit of the doubt to bad-faith actors with whom they once imagined they could do politics. Instead of a patrician cynic's banquet that ends in civilized suicide, how about a little humility and soul searching? How about a Damascene moment? What if the decent conservatives finally pulled the beams out of their own eyes? Maybe then they could see what has been missing from their sight all along. Their advice would be genuinely helpful to people instead of exquisitely ironic and useless.
4
It appears to me that my sinking USA needs its own Ali Smith to write the counterparts of her 4 part real-time series of novels that she says were originally to be just tales of life in the UK season after season. And then came Brexit and the novels became masterpieces with the final ending as yet unknown.
So too if there is a 2020 Trump succession to the end-of-democracy throne, for which we perhaps need a new name since with him everything must be different.
I end with this observation followed by a question. When I am in the USA I see infrastructure, transportation, electrical network, waste disposal and much more all reminiscent of the 1930s or further back in time. When I look in my Swedish newspaper I see a new effort to be able to take a train from here to Berlin, a picture of a new airport in China, stories about being fossil-fuel free in a reasonable time.
Question: Is there a single reader here today who has never been outside the continental USA and believes that the USA is a true world leader?
Hope to revive my blog today after getting an inquiry from a Times reader in a country with Universal Health Care - CDN.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Citizen US SE
7
What percentage of Americans are of below average intelligence? That's Trump's solid base, and they're highly motivated. We could easily see another four years of Donald Sr. followed by eight years of Don Jr.
6
“And most would happily fast-forward through that show if the magical remote control from that terrible Adam Sandler movie were suddenly available.”
The movie you’re referring to was Click, and it wasn’t terrible at all. It was a thoroughly entertaining comic fantasy in the vein of It’s a Wonderful Life. Adam Sandler has made some stinkers to be sure, but Click wasn’t one of them.
You would do well to avoid insulting readers whose tastes are not as ratified as your own.
2
Wow! What happened to "its too soon!" and "it'll cost the Democrats the 2020 election!"?
Should this be some watershed? The fact that a conservative is REALLY behind this?
Or does Ross not really count as a conservative any more, and this will mean nothing to actual conservatives who hold power?
3
"But if Trump survives impeachment and somehow gets re-elected, there will be .... just a floating hulk drifting between the icebergs of recession and foreign crisis, with all American conservatism onboard."
-- Eloquent and graphic imagery. I'm one of the few on this planet who believe the Dems will win 2020 by a landslide, whether or not Trump is removed beforehand. I sense a mounting anger among Democrats and Independents, coupled with steadily rising disappointment among his supporters.
Elizabeth Warren, the anti-Trump, could indeed win by a landslide, especially if the financial press gets off her back and stops labelling her 'socialist' (a term viewed in most civilised nations as a compliment). After all, a huge dose of 'fairness' is needed to compensate for decades of financial 'barbarity'.
Come on: Make them Dizzy, Miss Lizzie!
35
The only thing I would add is she MUST back off her idea to take away private insurance. Unions sacrificed A LOT of time and money to get the so-called Cadillac policies they have and she will get killed if she doesn’t. Otherwise, she has many backers to get to the WH.
Simple enough....she has met pretty much every person in America so all she has to do is say, “I am truly a woman of the people and they have spoken. Whatever my thoughts were on taking away private health insurance must take a backseat to what the American people want. After, all, I am not a queen or dictator and therefore must represent all the people’s wishes.”
I wouldn’t hold it against her. She listened to voter, not polls about HERSELF, and changed her mind. Period. No flip flop.
Hamid, great final line, Make them Dizzy, Miss Lizzie.
And now Iranian Expat in Europe perhaps best to not reveal exactly where Ana lasto gesos - no not Farsi - but there are spies everywhere.
And what could be a better way for the USA to finally enter the 21st century 20 years late than with Elizabeth Warren as president by a landslide.
I think you are on to something there, perhaps I will use that landslide phrase. And yes the endless labeling as a socialist gets especially tiresome here in comment land.
Perhaps we need a new name for a political party, The Fairness Party. That is my deepest obsession, fairness, that I think I can thank my mother and father for, not often expressed in explicit words, they had Swedish parents and grandparents after all not then exactly given to verbal expressiveness.
The months from now to election day are going to be thrillers, perhaps.
Larry L.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Citizen US SE
Senator Jeff Flake has just said that "at least 35" Republican Senators would vote to convict Trump - if the vote was secret.
Of course, that number would only be 2 or 3 if the vote was public. But a lot has changed in just one week. New revelations of impeachable offenses are coming out almost daily. So a change could come about very quickly in Republicans' political calculations.
I predict that, six months from now, the Republican candidates for President will be saying, "Trump? I hardly knew him."
19
Now with these new revelations Trump will lose bigly.The Senate will likely go Democratic as well. In swing states the Republican senators who choose to defend Trump will pay a very heavy price. The tide has finally turned.
Things are looking up.Personally I am feeling a sense of relief. Dems need to fully get behind whoever the nominee is-fully. Now it is ours to lose.
11
The difficulty of finding votes from Republican senators who believe that impeachment, or even critical comments regarding the conduct of the President, are merited but avoid such actions seems at odds with the notion of home field advantage. These senators must feel--maybe correctly, maybe not--that their communication skills with, and their ability to relate to, their constituency--people with whom they should be much better connected than the President--are inferior to the President's and thus they lack the confidence to say and do what they believe for fear of losing votes. It must be a suffocating and lonely feeling to wake up every morning feeling that you have no voice with your home-state people except one that parrots the President.
4
I still don't understand what conservatism is. It sure isn't whatever Ross Douthat thinks he's defending here, and Trump isn't some kind of anomaly that came out of nowhere.
I say let the Republicans do what they do best: fail.
10
I doubt that Trump actually has a real friend in this world.
His circle will fold when it is expedient to do so. Just as they gathered around him when it was to their benefit.
10
I fear that a Trump victory in 2020 will solidify his authoritarian dictatorial regime. The Republican Party, if it exists, will be that in name only. The country will be a mere artifice of the democratic republic it once was.
4
Just as the Democrats would be if they didn't and at long last impeach Trump, any Republican Senator drinking from the same waters as Lindsey Graham and seek to put party loyalty over adherence to their oath of office to protect this country against all enemies, foreign and DOMESTIC, are complicit in all his impeachable actions and should be held equally accountable for empowering him. I hope Democrats don't make this solely about Trump, this is the best opportunity yet to convey how the Republican Party with their political hack-filled Justice Department serving nothing but the best interest of their select few. An unchecked Republican Party represents the most dire threat to the ongoing concern of the United States of America.
8
If the senate does not vote to convict Trump, then McConnell and the senate are voting in favor of foreign governments, including the governments of our enemies, in our elections, and that it is okay to have a president beholding to those governments - or so much for the oath of office.
7
A curiously detached an philosophical viewpoint on a looming catastrophe which is the logical endpoint of the last 30 plus years of conservative ideology and practice. Decadence indeed. But a rebirth from within the GOP? Not likely. Not even from a few designated survivors.
11
Please allow me to boil this down. Republicans, if you are reading this, you can restore intellectual integrity to the conservative movement if you act now to get behind the impeachment movement. Furthermore, if you get behind this movement soon, you can put forth conservative candidates for the 2020 election with a good possibility of winning the presidency. No matter how the 2020 election works out, both parties, the vast majority of the US citizenry, and the world as a whole will be better off without Trump in office.
19
Didn’t Jeff Flake say that 25 republican senators would vote to impeach if they could vote privately? So, let me get this straight, they would uphold the constitution if Trump is found guilty of high crimes and misdemeanours is they can do so behind closed doors. My question is who do these senators fear more, Trump or his base?
7
"My question is who do these senators fear more, Trump or his base?"
Answer: His base.
1
We know that the majority of Republican lawmakers secretly detest Trump. But for most of them it is impossible to denounce Trump publicly since their constituents support him. It is hard for NYT readers to sympathize with or even comprehend how those constituents remain devoted to our dangerous criminal in chief. The answer appears to be that they are insulated from the worst of the President's attributes and actions by the spin of conservative media. Were Fox, for example, to gradually switch sides or even just tell the truth, that would be the end of Trump. How to get to them? -- that is the question.
13
If Trump wins the 2020 election it will decimate the republican party (2022/2024) and accelerate the movement to the left that is inevitable given demographic changes, erosion of religion etc. Imagine a two-thirds democratic majority under AOC presidency in the aftermath.
Ergo, republicans who really care about their values and the continued existence of their party should cut their losses and support impeachment in order to avoid total obsolescence.
8
Mr. Douthat needn't worry. The conservative movement died in 1994. The liberal movement died 10 years earlier. What's left today is reaction, dead-end identity politics, and rank theocracy. Those who don't fall into those categories either worship at the altar of technology, or are fixated on yesterday's ideological conventions.
The modern way of life is unsustainable and it's destroying our habitat. The quickening pace of ecological change will fundamentally reshape our economic and social life and the political structure in ways we can scarcely imagine. It's already happening. We really are entering a post-modern world.
2
The 35% that forms the hard core of the Republican party had been waiting for Trump for a couple of decades.
After he is gone from the presidency in 2021 he will start a TV station featuring himself and will continue to hold rallies. He will endorse Republican candidates, threaten and crush those candidates that do not vow fealty to him.
He is not going away nor are his followers.
17
Actually a pretty brilliant theory---Republicans turning on Trump for their own personal gain. It's so crazy it may actually work.
5
If conservatives want to avoid the cataclysm of a second term for Trump and relieve the current untenable situation, they should go to Trump and tell him that more revelations will only hurt him further, so the smart thing to do is resign now before there is an impeachment vote. He can then return to New York and continue running his business. They could tell him it would be good for his health as he frankly does not look very good now.
If successful and Trump resigns the Republicans could have a wide open 2020 primary.
3
Surely, you jest? Mr. T. will fight all of this to the bitter end. It's about him afterall. It is not about the rule of law, sparing the country, or mutual support amongst party members.
Mr. Berk, I find it hard to believe that you have been observing Trump’s behavior. He is not just a schoolyard bully who can’t personally fire anyone, he lives in his own world which was formed when Ray Cohen tutored him and he had attended a church whose pastor wrote The Power of Positive Thinking. If he believes it and doesn’t back down, then it will come to pass.
Since 2016 he has run the Executive branch that way, evading unwritten rules and gathering sycophants. Why would he suddenly listen to any Republican who had such an attack of courage? I see no candidates to vying to replace John McCain.
Ross muses about the future of "conservatives." What is a conservative these days? To me it seems like a person of few principles and a thirst for minority rule standing astride the railroad tracks of history shouting, "Choose me, Donald!"
7
A conservative is a Democrat calling himself a moderate. They are well to the right of the older moderate Republicans like Nixon and George Romney and Nelson Rockefeller. They are totally sold out to what FDR called moneyed interests, now donor cash and corporate sponsors.
The Republicans in question are just completely nuts, so far out in the right wing they can't even see normal anymore. They followed Gingrich out that way, got lost, and kept wandering further and further into the wasteland.
19
But this reader would still ask - drinking tap water and comfortable in my convenience dollar housecoat - why Republican Senators would want this Trump era to continue.
Mr. Douthat continues his homework on the side, and on occasion reads a 'Republican' news publication. There is little mention of the big-cog-in-the-nation's wheel and it brings a sense of reassurance to the supporters of this embattled president.
The die has been cast for impeachment hearings but many of us do not understand what this means. Nobody-in-power seems to care that the president shows signs of not being right in the head, or remains in a state of denial.
The president appears to be used as a smokescreen, while his administration is limping along, endangering the country and its well-being. It has never been All about Trump for this American, but how We react in the face of the above, and to sum it up, we can do better for if this charade continues, we may be seeing our last president in office.
Trump is no Caligula, but leaves one wondering how the senators reacted when the roman emperor proclaimed his horse a god. Times have changed since then, and there is a sense that we might have far more to lose.
Ask your Republican neighbor for an opinion on The Ukraine 'miasma', and he will tell you staunchly that it is a big hoax. Surely our politicians, regardless of party affiliation, can find a way of removing this unprecedented president without histrionics and fanfare.
7
It has been my suspicion in recent months that a number of Republicans of significant political stature are going to realize the ultimate danger of being fellow-travelers with the Trump Circus as the next election grows closer. The revelations that are likely to come from an Impeachment Inquiry will stimulate that concern.
2
Bravo, Mr Douthat. Bravo. it is refreshing that at least one center-right columnist on the sacred pages of the NYT has taken a position based on principle and not feckless political calculation or prognostication about optics and elections. Principled stances matter and they work when those lacking any principle have nowhere to take cover.
6
Yes, Republican Senators should remove Trump for the good of the party. More importantly, though, they should remove him for the good of the country and the world. He has been degrading the office of the president and our national politics. He has done great damage, as well, to our international standing, friendships and alliances while casting aside our traditional leadership role in the world.
The damage he could inflict with five more years in office might not be something that we can recover from. The risks are far to great to leave to crossed fingers and wishful thinking.
10
I wonder whether Mitch McConnell and the other denizens of what used to be the Republican senatorial caucus (now forever vassals of King Trump) even read anything except the Wall Street Journal, but assuming they have stumbled across this column by accident, twenty of them might be persuaded by Ross Douthat's argument of enlightened self-interest to convict Trump of high crimes and misdemeanours if they only had a modicum of courage, self respect and, dare I say it, patriotism. However, they have been so cowed by Trump's hold on his supporters that they have already given up on their fiscally sound principles for the sugar high of the tax cut, why would they risk turning on the self-declared best U.S. President except for Lincoln? What if his supporters turned on them in the next election as a consequence? Doesn't bear thinking about.
4
Mr. Douthat, we Democrats have a strong history of rescuing our democracy from the failures of Republican experiments. We're doing it again now. The American experiment will continue, thanks to Democrats. You're welcome.
Join us.
21
The cohort of Republican senators who are up for reelection in 2020 are presently cowering in terror of offending Trump and his base, thereby inviting primary challengers from further right. But next spring the filing windows for potential primary candidates will begin to close and unchallenged incumbents should commence to feel safer. Looking forward to the general election, some may even start contemplating the traditional joys of sliding closer to the center in hopes of enticing uncommitted moderates.
If Trump's fortunes continue to slide, perhaps some of these Republicans might be enticed to burnish their centrist credentials with a vote in favor of removing a now clearly and grievously hobbled Trump. Perfect timing for the Senate vote would be required. But it could happen.
4
Great minds ... I was thinking the same thing today. Of course it's only a fantasy, but the GOP voting to impeach would strengthen their party. Eventually, they will need to moderate their stances on, well, everything to be relevant again. This could hasten that transition. Of course, they would lose an election or two, but ousting Trump would be a start.
10
Ross talks an awful lot about the party but not the voters who elected Trump in the first place. For millions of Americans, the "exit from Trumpland" in an impeachment over a phone call will prove once and for all that the game is rigged. This exit will also institutionalize permanent political war.
5
So we don't already have that?
Only Fox TV changing its stance re. Trump can prevent that Civil War.
On the brightside, a trump reelection in 2020 and the consequently inevitable disastrous trump megalomania would pretty much guarantee that by 2024, there will be a Democrat president and Democrat-controlled Senate and House.
Hopefully enough Republican senators will realize this year that it's not in their best long-term interest to keep trump in power.
13
Modern politicians are incapable of thinking past their next election. Remaining employed and having that great government sponsored health care insurance are too good to give up.
Trump's worst fear has to be a Democrat succeeding him because that means indictments and probably prison. His best outcome is either resignation, impeachment or the 25th Amendment. Either of those would bring Pence in as his successor and Pence would certainly pardon him.
1
Federal pardons don't help with state crimes.
New York State will be trying Trump for various crimes.
A well-earned prison sentence is in Donald's future.
183
That will only work for Federal offenses; opportunities at the state level remain.
1
Yeah, I guess Republicans and conservatives have to figure out a way to keep their hands in the money, I don't know what else they stand for.
They'll try to keep near the money and influence by producing a violently enraged propaganda that keeps their supporters by their side in an unending cultural war, and against the self interest of anyone else but themselves.
The rest of us will try to live our private lives without being told what to do by them and their increasingly government supported religion.
They'll desperately try to maintain ties with the guns, armaments, insurance, and old energy lobbyists and vote alongside the wishes of the wealthiest.
Apart from that, who are they? What is their function? What have they done for anyone?
21
So cut it out with the Warren critiques. Yes, she has adopted some overly radical positions. But on the whole, she is smart and understands the economy.
Meanwhile, the planet is just getting started letting us know we've gotten too big for our boots.
Enough already. Any Democrat would be an improvement on Trump. Pence is even worse. Burials for fetuses? Fetuses first, mothers and families, forget about it? really?
73
Warren is better and Pence is worse? In what alternative universe?
Pence is a Christian who believes this is a Christian country and that there is no separation of church. He is a dangerous man.
The difference with shady Bill Clinton, whose bad behavior was likely pivotal in getting Trump elected, and Trump is their relationship to their party.
Clinton was a career politician. Trump is barely a Republican and never did anything political except rant about politicians. He has no loyalty to the party or concern for its fate. Republican politicians know this and the feeling is almost certainly mutual.
Republicans do not want to irritate their voters so they posture like they do not want Trump removed. They do not want to appear disloyal and then have to deal with the wrath of an emboldened President Trump.
This is an entirely different calculation than what happens should Trump be standing on the metaphorical cliff of an impeachment trial. There is an excellent chance that most of then would be all too happy to hand him an anvil stamped guilty and be done with him for good.
4
Trump is a "Republican" only because Democrats were too smart to vote for him.
1
A. Durant: "A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself from within."
Republican Senators have a choice. They can be cowards as their party is destroyed from within by Donald Trump. Or, they can finally show some courage and preserve not only their party, but their country.
The eyes of a nation are watching what may be the greatest test ever of our Constitutional democracy.
51
There are no republicans any more. I would have thought the author
might have noticed by now. There are only trumpicans and
closeted terrified former republicans who are isolated, irrelevant, and completely marginalized in the contemporary disaster, which is their just reward for their unwillingness to form an active anti-trump front. The fact that they are unwilling to coalesce into such an active guerilla type insurgent movement speaks volumes of their inertia, weakness of backbone, lack of imagination, amorality, and generalized lethargy.
That is not what we need at present.
We need a group that can put effective pressure on those not yet irredeemable senators who are going to be put in a difficult position in a few months and who are privately terrified of that prospect. So they need as large and prominent support mechanism and alliance of like minded moral weaklings as possible to get them to confront in public, not private, the manifestly vicious anti American evil that is staring at them from the oval office and growling at them from within their constituencies.
Their only hope of moral redemption is to act together with courage of
conviction and firmness of purpose in uniform opposition to the trump
cabal. The fact that they are hesitant and don't seem to realize this would more than justify their being discarded en masse in history's dustbin of
pathetic but not terribly sympathetic losers.
19
The bid problem is not the craven GOP senators who fear Trump's wrath, but the voters who control the senators' political futures. If GOP senators act on their own personal better judgment and vote to remove Trump, and get thrown out of office, their constituents will vote for candidates who are even worse.
Until the forces of non-Trumpite-ism can overwhelm the Trumpite vote, we will continue to have chaos and gridlock in Washington.
3
Yes, but in the meantime power will have transferred away
from trump within the 2-4 year window of opportunity, provided
by trump's conviction (were it to come to that). Once he's out of power, he should have so many legal problems to deal with, he would be neutralized as a political force.
1
There are true Republicans but they all write for the Times-Brooks, Douthart, and Stevens.
1
I wouldn’t worry too much about those icebergs. If Trump is reelected, there won’t be any.
15
The whole fallout from this is Trump is going to be re-elected and Joe Biden is going to go to jail. Biden should have left well enough alone and sat it out. Even Obama told him he didn't have to do this.
Biden will only go to jail if he decides to visit Trump.
1
Why do republicans always think their political opponents should go to jail? This is America, not some third rate dictatorship. Oh, wait....
1
Is he going to jail before or after Hillary ?
Please
If not for phony allegations, 2016 would have never happened
Good luck trying that again
Ross: If you're going to indulge in fantasizing, you might as well fantasize that instead of the country having to go through an unpleasant and polarizing impeachment inquiry, the Republican leadership will convince Trump to either resign or a least announce that he is not going to seek re-election, because the evil Democrats have made it impossible for him to do the job for which he was elected.
5
President Trump's lack of concern for anything others than his own self interest will mark him as our era's version of Benedict Arnold, if not worse. As Mr. Douthat writes, it would take about 20 Republican Senators joining with their Democratic colleagues to save the nation from this villain.Why will it be so hard to find them?
Mr. Douthat's piece does not include these words: courage, patriotism, principle, constitution, or selflessness. Those qualities are as absent among the Republican Senators as they are in Mr. Douthat's comment. And "therein lies the rub".
17
Nice fantasy, I'm sure someone will write a novel about it in the future. There are no more moral conservatives, and certainly no more Republicans willing to take a stand against their demi-God, Trump. They know exactly what he is, and they're fine with it. Will he be impeached in the House? Yes. Will the Senate convict and remove him? Not on your life. Will it do lasting damage to his re-election? Hopefully yes. The only way to insure that Trump, and his toady Republicans, cannot harm America any longer is to vote them out of office by overwhelming margins.
17
Don’t worry, Ross, nothing will change.
The (imperialist US empire) show must go on!
The US presidents of just the past few decades have killed millions of people all over the planet and destroyed entire nations, but Trump attempts to use his Ukrainian puppet government to reopen an investigation of the corruption of a predecessor, and suddenly the Democrats are screaming for impeachment, even though they are the ones who created that puppet government in the first place.
Saying that this campaign could backfire and help Trump win re-election seems like an understatement to me. If I cared which of America's two capitalist parties of racism and war runs the country, I suppose I would now feel outraged, or else very happy, depending on which of the two parties I supported.
My prediction: the impeachment process will lead nowhere, Democrats will waste a lot of time and energy on it and at the end, still won't have a candidate or a set of policies capable of beating Trump at the next election (because the donor class would rather have four more years of Trump than allow a Sanders Presidency).
So Trump goes into the 2020 elections with the wind at his back, having beaten impeachment, and been acquitted of charges and with his foes demoralized.
The Trumpster winneth again.
The Trump agenda which is the agenda of Big Business, Wall St, the MIC and laissez-faire capitalism continues unabated. The elites on donors of both parties are happy. The peons got their bread and circus.
3
Extremely well done!
Not so far-fetched and could easily deflate Democrats. (Said as an old suburban liberal-to-progressive Democrat.) Republican can let the dastardly Democrats do the heavy lifting, take the blame, and cleanse us all of Trump, all in time to enter the 2020 election fresh as a newborn. A Republican could be as sad, or as angry, as they need to be, but, as Pres. Ford said in similar circumstances, "Our long national nightmare is over." Rally around the new Republicans of our better angels (and punish those impeaching Democrats). Mile Pence, anyone?
Democrats might not know who or what to shoot at.
"and to bar him, as an impeachment can, from simply running for president again immediately." Really? I will 100% settle for that.
4
Conservatism's modern version of the Raft of the Medusa will be much uglier than Douthat imagines in part because he refuses to recognize how thoroughly Trump has governed according to the standard Republican play book.
Tax cuts for the wealthy and the corporations, deregulation of polluters, misogyny, and white nationalism are clearly seen as Republican, not just Trumpian attributes. Like in the French maritime disaster, the pitiless stranding of conservatives may be caused by an incompetent captain, but only fools would want to replicate the 4-decade old Republican system that placed Trump at the helm.
Like the Medusa survivors, conservatives will get some sympathy for their plight but also shunning when they resort to cannibalism to keep their movement alive. It would be okay if there were only about 11% of conservatives remaining to sour our politics.
5
With McConnel being indebted to a Russian oligarch and clearly in the palm of Koch organization along with most of the other Republicans, don't count on any last-minute realization of moral awareness or a developing sense of duty to the Consitution.
Corruption in our government is everywhere. Frankly, the human race is showing itself to be unfit for membership in the community of the universe given it never learns from history and constantly engages in the most selfish, destructive behavior.
What else is possible.
5
As a progressive, I welcome your musings. Let the stalwart Republicans (who are in hiding) rise up and abandon Trump enough to force the GOP to walk away from his stranglehold on the party. Then we can have a 2020 election about the issues. I (we) are happy to have policy discussions that are not skewed by racism and sexism, not diverted by "elitism", and not perverted by denial of science and facts. I challenge you and your fellow conservatives to eject Trump and re-open rational, thoughtful, non-tribalistic discussions about how best to have a civilized society!
5
I am hoping that Trump does get impeached and convicted soon. BUT: if not, and if Trump wins the Republican nomination, AND if he again chooses Puritan Pence as running mate, AND, if (hopefully) Elizabeth Warren is the Democratic nominee, AND if (hopefully) she chooses Mayor Pete as her running mate, I salivate at the prospect of a debate between Mayor Pete & Pence, 'cause Pence will be sooo demolished!
6
For a Trump Apologist (nee Enabler) Mr. Douthat appears to wax-wise, superficial though it is. One would have hoped that this tongue-in-cheek op-ed,
addressed to an audience composed of approx 33% Trump voters, might have
inspired him to construct a serious article addressed to each and every Republican in the Senate urging them to put aside their petty power practices and vote to save this precious United States from the tyrant that is Trump.
2
Great article. Thank you, NYT. Mr. Trump is a civilian who has no business being president of the world’s most important empire. He fails to use obfuscatory discourse expected of national leaders. He meddles in the affairs of foreign countries that fail to investigate the corrupt actions of children of leading US politicians. Impeachment is the only option. If the legal means are not available, then a coup d’etat would do just as well. We must defend democracy at all cost.
6
Another point to consider: if Trump were to win the White House again, by whatever means, fair or most foul (the latter being likely) we would be in the same mess were are in now, quadrupled: an untrained, uneducated, still inexperienced (in actual government) and constantly bombastic, tweet crazed individual in the presidency.
If anyone thinks the last 2 1/2 years have been chaotic and slap dash messy, you ain't seen nuthin' yet like a Trump second term. First, he would feel vindicated and become even more unhinged. He would operate under the belief, "See there, I was right about everything all along", and would proceed on that basis.
If impeachment were not completed early in the second term and the 25th amendment were not successfully invoked, Trump might be "impeached", thrown out of office, by the people in the streets, Hong Kong style. We must always keep in mind that the people, the voter-citizens, are the ultimate authorities in our nation, elected officials and constitutional restraints notwithstanding. If the people, united, say go, he must go.
The protest segment of America has been muted. That, in part, is because it jumped the gun, shot its power, on Jan. 21, 2017, with a premature effort to dump Trump. If he gets back in, moderates, independents, Democrats would all unite to save the nation.
1
Ross as usual smarter than thou but remarkably wrong. Actually, he's usually wrong but, I digress. Trump will be impeached, he deserves no less and probably a lot more. Moscow mitch will hedge his bets and allow a trial to go forward in the senate because his re election has become imperiled as the popular polling for impeachment reaches 50%. The senate will still barely vote not to convict assuring us that motorcade mike doesn't become president and Elizabeth Warren will win handily and the Democrats will take back the senate. Prognostication is easy but who knows?
6
Love your prognostication. That is a future I can embrace. The only thing left out is the trial and conviction of private citizen Trump.
3
Nifty footwork, Ross, but you cannot spin the current Republican Party into some sort of democracy craving, principled conservative bastion.
It is run by very rich white men allied with profit- driven, right-wing interest groups who crave more money and more power. If Trump leaves office they'll find another front man and try to repeat.
Real change in today's Republican Party will never come from the top -- and it looks unlikely to come from the rank and file.
Republican office holders want only to stay in office, accumulate influence, live the good life, and quintuple their income when they become lobbyists. "Conservatism" to them is simply a good con that helps them line their pockets. Greed is ascendant in today's GOP to an extraordinary degree, even by U.S. standards.
Trump may be be a swamped and sinking ship, but his Republican enablers and political allies will cling to their positions in First Class right up until the the last minute when they'll grab their profits, steal the lifeboats, and live to prosper in the next Republican iteration -- unless they are indicted.
13
Prior to the Whistleblowers statement there was much speculation, gnashing of teeth, and anxiety about the trump presidency and how to defeat it through impeachment or not. Then the report surfaced bringing new life into the impeachment inquiry. This report in my humble opinion is but the tip of the proverbial iceberg So much exists underneath, that will eventually surface that enough of the reluctant GOP congress will shift toward the impeachment or face their removal from office. This appears to be a repeat of the Nixon presidency where at the very low point in the investigations the Oval Office tapes surfaced to reveal the corrupt , criminal acts of the Nixon administration. To the nations detriment trump will not leave as peacefully as Nixon waving the victory sign, but in the most disruptive manner the man can muster with his base
5
Does anybody really think that Trump would have won the GOP nomination if the party demanded all nominees release their taxes before they entered their primaries?
10
I remain perplexed as to what the Trump Republican Party is 'conserving.' It is not the treasury, environment, ethics, or taxpayer monies at a Trump property.
20
they call them tax breaks.
4
Peter—they are conserving their cash flow and their family fortunes. Period.
1
They're conserving the power of rich people.
1
Hard to see how the GOP would benefit much, at this point, if Trump does not run. There would be no honeymoon with congress, most are too tied to Trump and the election is too close.
2
For those still on the fence about impeachment, think about this: The Republicans have so far gotten a pass. Impeachment will end that. Once the House finishes their over-due diligence, the Senate will have one chance to do the right thing, or forever be the party which said, on the world's biggest stage, that overt criminal activity is OK with them. That vote, yea or nay will decide the fate of what Noam Chomsky has called, (referring to climate-denial) 'The most dangerous group on the face of the Earth'.
Republicans can try to say, "We've got to stand by him, for the sake of the party".
Well, the party's over.
86
Ah, but if McConnell doesn't ever allow the trial to happen, then NONE of them will ever have to make that vote. Don't put it past him!
2
I can imagine the US sliding into civil war if Trump is impeached in the house, the Senate doesn’t convict, and trump wins re-election through the electoral college.....
1
The only Republicans sulking in the background are those who either ran before like Romney or those who thought they could run on being the adult in the room. The establishment Republicans like a winner no matter if that person is not Republican enough or war monger enough. Shaking the image of the Bushs after Obama won the presidency for the democrats was a big challenge and in comes Trump he wipes out 2 dynasties the Bush Dynasty and the Clinton dynasty. Trump is not a politically correct person nor does he have a cookie cutter approach to admin or politics and that does not bother Republicans. Next time around in 2020 if the Democrats fail to avoid the same debacle as Mueller was for them, they could lose the popular vote. as well as the electoral college. Dems will find in 2020 that their vote bank has dwindled because all those who have found better days during the Trump presidency shifting towards Trump. Wishful thinking to think that more than 5% of the Republicans will vote for a democratic nominee. The independents are less likely to vote for someone without a record and more likely to vote for a known devil than an unknown one. If Biden is the eventual nominee of the Dems and a thorough investigation is not completed on how his son Hunter poorly qualified to do any simple job is able to cash in on his father's influence in Ukraine and China managed to amass wealth not proportionate to what he accomplished. The dems will be better off dropping hot potato Joe.
2
When conservatives bowed to Donald Trump and sold out their principles for a little personal gain, conservatism as Mr. Douthat knew it died and can not be brought back to life no matter how he fantasizes about raising it from the dead. Conservatives had their chance for a do over when they denied the validity of the Mueller report, Trump's naked power grabs and use of the presidency for fun and profit. Sorry Mr. Douthat. When this is all said and done Trump's legacy will live on in our memories and conservatives will not be forgiven for their sin of enabling a blatant con man to be president.
25
Please.
Someone tell me something that Republicans have don for the country or average Americans . . . Ever !
Everything is about extracting money.
Giving tax cuts to rich people is their only policy.
99
Teddy Roosevelt---National Parks System (He later formed the "progressive party)
Abraham Lincoln--Navigated & sought healing after the Civil War
Richard Nixon---Started the Environmental Protection Agency
There's three thing Republicans have done for this country. I'm a registered Independent just for the record.
2
How about Eisenhower and the interstate highway system? While visiting Australia 20 years ago, I recall being told how incredible our highway system was from an Aussie's point of view. Nixon got us talking to the mainland Chinese.
Just in case the orthodoxy here is to never say anything good about a Repub, I'm sorry.
3
The 13th Amendment.
1
You say:
"(and to bar him, as an impeachment can, from simply running for president again immediately)"
Citation, please. I don't see that in my copy of the Constitution.
5
I think this is wishful thinking. Even if Trump somehow departed, it's still his party going forward. It's not going back to where it was before.
8
The "party" is really the voters and the candidates they'll support. The Trumpites will still be Trumpites, even without their original leader.
1
There sure are a lot of Republicans that have disqualified themselves from participating in the rebirth of the Republican Party. For example, members of the RNC, members of the House and Senate, unethical Trump appointees, and of course the Republicans at the state and county levels that take a strong interest in restricting voting rights.
5
What does the "conservative movement" even stand for anymore? To my mind, it means controlling women by taking away abortion rights, always reducing taxes which are much needed to build infrastructure and bolster social programs people rely on (while the rich stash their "dark money" in offshore tax shelters), trickle down economics which has resulted in today's disgusting wealth disparity and evisceration of the middle class, deregulation which destroys our already crippled ecosystem...
I mean really: what does the "modern conservative movement" stand for that makes the world a better place?
160
I always thought of Hillary, and now to some extent Biden, as the modern 'conservative movement'. If these candidates did not have the 'Democrat' moniker attached, they would be appealing to many GOP voters.
3
@Clarice
President Trump is more of a conservative than a GOP hack. Consider:
criminal justice reform
enforceable borders
support for Israel
hard line with trade
good judges
better and fewer regulations
pro-life
Twitter - informal communication
open government
1
The republicans have a chance to learn from Watergate. Instead of casting a vote in a Senate trial for all to see, (especially the trump base whom they need for their reelection) they can push him to resign.
The benefits are many: the senators can keep their feelings from the public, trump gets to say he wasn't kicked out of office, and republicans can claim they didn't want trump to go and not upset the base.
Then the republicans will be free of trump and to do what they do best:
Obstruct democrats and be the party of NO...
6
There's just one problem. Trump will never resign.
1
As a lifelong Dem I'm not pre-disposed to like anything RD writes. But I do appreciate his ongoing criticism of DT, and I feel his pain expressed here. And while things may get ugly for all of us in coming days and months, I must say I'm really enjoying this moment.
12
I can’t help but feel that Ross and his fellow Republicans are the reason that we now have Trump.
They mostly believe that their form of Republicanism is better.
They believe in exploitation of workers, tax cuts for the richest, corporations are people, money is speech, survival of the fittest, getting ethics out of government, gerrymandering, electronic voting, more money in politics.
At the same time they are troubled with Trump??
34
Oh please, how can anyone have any sympathy for the likes of Douthat, Brooks, Stephens, and the rest of the so-called "reasonable" Conservative talking heads?
The Republican Party didn't suddenly fall into moral rot when Trump became their candidate. Rather, Trump and Trumpism are the inevitable result of the trajectory that their party dating back to at least Newt Gingrich (or perhaps Lee Atwater).
Remember when McConnell stole a seat on the Supreme Court? Remember Birtherism? Swift-Boating? Hanging chads? the Starr Inquisition? Willie Horton? Gingrich's obstructionism? Atwater's "politics of personal destruction?"
Did Douthat, Brooks, or Stephens speak out against any of these Republican atrocities? No!
Did they ever speak out against the lies, divisiveness, and outright hatred that has been spewed by Fox News for the past 25 years? Did they ever speak out against Limbaugh, Beck, Drudge, Bannon-Brietbart, DiSouza, Coulter, Hannity, Levin, and all the other Conservativehate-mongers? No!
I'm sorry, but I can't feel any sympathy for people like Douthat/Brooks/Stephens who sat in silence while their party destroyed the primacy of truth, civility, and the rule of law in our country. They're complicit in what their party did to our country, which paved the way for Trumpism.
Their recently-discovered faux remorse is just their attempt to distance themselves from their own sins. What's Douthat pining for - a return to the "ethical" Conservatism of the Obama era?
2
He has completely changed his opinion of Trump. I think he sees the handwriting on the wall and does not want to sink with the rest of the Republican ship.
In the third-to-last paragraph, Douthat imagines a scenario where Trump gets a second term and Democrats are left “yet more radicalized.” I feel like that greasy Martin Short lawyer character who asks the camera, “Is it me or is it him?,” when faced with questions about his own unethical behavior. Why does Douthat think that a $15 minimum wage, universal health care, investments in green energy, and taxes on the wealthy who’ve feasted like gluttonous Roman emperors on tax cuts that past forty years, a radical agenda? I’ve never seen him characterize Trump’s evisceration of environmental laws, or trillions in tax cuts for the super wealthy, or his coddling of the NRA, as radical. After Trump, it’ll take years of leftist control of Congress and the presidency to not only repair the damage to our institutions, but to rid ourselves of neoliberal policies that have denuded government and favored unaccountable private power.
205
Smart, and an effective strategy for conservatives. But, really, does anyone think there are enough smart Republicans these days...?
11
If the Republicans don’t vote to remove Trump from office, there will NEVER be an after-Trump GOP. Ever.
The only reason there was an after-Nixon GOP is because Republicans did their duty. Precious few have shown such courage to date in regards to Trump.
115
But the current Republican Party is no longer capable to carry out their constitutional duty. They have been transformed by Trump into a corrupt, party over the nation organization that cry "deep state' while they themselves are 'no state," only to the highest bidder.
"bored-Roman-aristocrat" says it all. Y'all don't want to change anything except Trump himself. You fail to understand that what your principles created the means for Trump to succeed. "Trump" is the culmination of Conservatism.
Remember: the definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results...
112
I suspect that what Douthat muses about is what Senate Republicans discuss behind closed doors. I wonder how many exit strategies and off-ramps they actually discuss. These are probably heated conversations that they take great care to never leak out. Someday we may see them.
I like the Roman allusions Douthat makes in the piece. I immediately think of Gibbon, writing his masterpiece while the American Revolutionary War was in full swing. Gibbon was a Whig backbencher in the Commons that never defied the King or PM Lord North, even though he disagreed with the Tory policies he voted in favor of (sound familiar). At the same time, he was writing about hidden poisons at work in the Roman Empire: The system was sick and the occasional good emperor was the exception to the rule. In India, Robert Clive had extorted the subcontinent for the benefits of a private company whose tea had just found its way to Boston Harbor. We are not immune from revolutionary events engulfing us again, perhaps this may happen very soon. I agree that Trump should be removed from office, but he sure has a lot of loyalists. I can't say how this will all end. I hope that the Senate comes to their senses for the sake of our great republic.
-Publius
7
Marvelous comment and thanks for the Gibbon backstory - yet another instance of how much more i have to learn before i figure out The Answer. Stumbling across hints like you proffer give me hope that the clues are at least indeed out there.
Thanks again.
1
Ross: Although I usually disagree with you on just about everything, I do think your “cynicism and bemusement” about the republican establishment is something that thoughtful and concerned conservatives should be worried about. Fantasy or not, Trump’s re-election would possibly lead to the complete and utter destruction of our democracy as it has stood for the past 250 or so years. The tatters of your party along with the tatters of our people would be the result. It’s definitely better to abandon ship while you’re still alive and I do think that some republican senators get it.
18
ross is first and foremost a "conservative"..... he cares little about our democracy. he figures that as long as conservatism is ok? somwill everything else that is important. he is indeed the jaded Roman.
2
Unless it becomes clear over the next couple of months that Trump cannot win in 2020, very few Republican senators will vote to impeach. Meanwhile, Trump's base will be further energized by the impeachment proceeding in the House, making it even less clear that Trump will lose in 2020.
1
Oh, this is such a beautiful possibility. I hope more than anything it comes to pass but fear it's highly unlikely.
(NB. I'm an Independent, and to the left of Mr. Douthat. While I find Warren and Harris to be smart, driven, and talented candidates, their economic policy proposals are far too progressive for my liking.)
1
Gosh -- universal health care -- practised in most of the civilized world -- is too "progressive?"
And since when is "progressive" a dirty word? Isn't its root word "Progress?" And what pray tell, is wrong with that? Is it not better than stagnation, or retreat into a terrible past?
A nice fantasy to start the day with. The historical truth of it those is that despots who come to and hold power by not respecting the rule of law are never removed by those that do. Trump won't go easily, and even if he does, what of the 40% plus of the country who support him, what of them?
5
There seems to be a very strong view that if Trump were somehow to survive an impeachment trial in the Senate he would emerge victorious in the 2020 elections.
Seriously?
How many commercials and movies did O.J. go on to make after his acquittal?
49
If Douthat were seriously "never-Trump", he would postulate Biden/Klobuchar instead of Warren as the Democrat's 2020 ticket.
All this makes one appreciate even more the recently deceased patriot, Joe Wilson. And what of the younger generation, who never heard of Joe Wilson and his courageous, patriotic sacrifices? I doubt that any school textbook even mentions him in passing.
Fortunately, Wilson's partner in courage, patriotism, and victimization, his former wife Valerie Plame, is currently running for Congress in New Mexico. She is the unusually extremely qualified person who can go to Washington and not be cowed, manipulated, or bought off. She has taken the worst the political establishment could throw at her and tossed it back in their face. That is precisely what Washington, especially Congress, needs more of: people who will stand up for principles, when the going gets tough. It is extremely important to have someone in Congress who has demonstrated she can and will walk the walk, not just talk the talk.
A fitting tribute to Joe Wilson and true American patriotism would be to support Plame, not because she was his wife, but because like Joe, she is the rare individual who has demonstrated she can take the worst Washington politics will throw at you and come back swinging.
For those of you too young to remember Wilson, I would strongly suggest you read yesterday's Times article on Joe.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/27/us/joseph-wilson-dead.html#commentsContainer
27
The thoughtful Senate Republican response to Trump's impeachment would be throw Trump under the bus. They should make a pact now to start to agree that these allegations are serious and must be investigated. By the time they get to the trial in the Senate, they can all agree that Trump needs to be removed from office - quickly and unanimously. McConnell can do it.
41
I don't know. A lot of people who are against impeachment in Red States will have to change their minds before I can imagine Republican senators doing this...
1
"Thoughtful" and this current "Republican Senate" do not belong in the same sentence.
1
Moscow Mitch won't hold the trial. He'll say something like "a president can't be impeached in an election year." That way no republican senator goes on record either supporting Trump or against Trump. Then, if Trump does win re-election, McConnell will own him. Trump will be president in name only. He will be forced to do McConnell's bidding because McConnell can bring up the impeachment trial at any time.
61
Hard to argue with that, except that McConnell tabling the impeachment vote should utterly inflame voters to finish the job, whoever the Dem nominee is.
1
I've thought this very same thing. McConnell is completely shameless and will claim precedent for any self-serving act that in really has nothing to do with the history of our government or the Constitution.
2
McConnell will not own Trump. Trump does not take well to being owned or pressured, and will figure that he can get away with throwing the turtle under the bus. He figures, or rather assumes, that he can get away with anything.
Ross, if Trump is to fall, it will most likely come via resignation - not formal removal.
One assumes that McConnell would go to the White House to inform the President that there are 67 votes in the Senate to remove him, and he should resign in exchange for some kind of immunity from Federal prosecution (although not state, that should never be on the table) for he and his family's past and present misdeeds.
Given that Pence might also be implicated in this sordid Ukraine affair, a deal might also have to involve the selection of a new Vice President.
The Republicans will hold the cards in the Senate in any deal, given the impossibility of Trump's removal without their votes - so Democrats should not get greedy. But neither should McConnell expect to replace Trump with a potential 2020 Presidential challenger.
If Trump goes down, this is most likely the way it will happen.
I would strongly advise Republicans that this is the best political outcome that they could hope to achieve - and that resetting the 2020 GOP Presidential field gives them the best chance of retaining the White House.
From my POV, once Trump is history, Joe Biden's "El-Cid" (google the movie...) impersonation becomes superfluous and opens to the door to the younger (even slightly), more intellectually vigorous Democratic candidates.
I'd even go far as to argue that the only way to calm financial markets, especially those negatively impacted by Trump's China policy, is to throw Trump overboard.
55
it won't happen that way.
there will be some kind of attempted coup.
chances are, it will succeed
1
Immunity for that crook?
Never.
1
Mr. Douthat’s mention of what the Republican establishment wants the party to stand for in a post-Trump world is just the fantasizing of the old guard, hoping that their buggy-whip making skills will return to prominence once he’s gone. They’re delusional.
As an editorial in the NYT pointed out a few days ago, Mr. Trump is an iconoclast. He first destroyed the philosophical underpinnings of the Republican Party. And he’s now engaged in transforming the American political landscape.
Mr. Trump’s genius is in exposing his opponents’ true goals. So he highlighted the Republican old guard’s love for the status quo, which benefited the party’s elites while offering only sops to the rank and file. And now he’s exposed the left’s desire for equal outcomes and preferences for select groups. His supporters are deeply opposed to the left’s vision of America. No Republican candidate can ignore the lesson. The Republican Party is permanently changed. So is America.
Mr. Trump is not responsible for this change, he’s merely the first person to understand that it’s happened. Every politician for at least a generation will have to figure out how to deal with it.
9
Your party is owned lock, stock and barrel by the NRA, Trump, Russian oligarchs, corporate titans, Koch, Putin and old white angry men in Congress who fail day after day year after year to defend our Constitution and national security. The picture is sordid and you know it, but you will nonetheless keep rearranging the deck chairs on the sinking ship because it fits your need to produce endless what if's every week.
459
The party of oil, guns, white supremacy and fundamentalism.
That's their coalition and they are fine with it.
"And then you're only a few Republicans of principle away from twenty." Two things about this, the first being, when was the last time you could find even two Republicans of principle to rub together. The second thing is I'm surprised that you continue to limit the fallout from the Trump experience to a timeline that begins and ends with Trump's viability. Am I to imagine when Trump leaves (on his own or forcibly) you will go back to your party as if this were a flirtation and not a total capitulation. There is no Republican Party anymore. Never again, in your lifetime, will the memory of Trump and the Republican party's complete abandonment of ethics, past positions and constitutional order be forgotten. You can go back if you want but I'll never forget what conservatism, ultimately, leads to.
209
I hope and wish you are right, but...the memories of the Americans are about a long as my little finger. I remember when the most corrupt vice-president (Agnew) and the most crooked president in modern times (Nixon) caused a backlash that gave us Jimmy Carter and the certainty that the Republicans were finished as a party. Only four years later they were back, getting elected with their usual racist tropes. To paraphrase Mencken, no Republican ever got voted out by underestimating the intelligence of the American people.
Ross, your daydreams are so stark. You want save conservatism from Trump, but that ship sailed 3 years ago. You can't restore "greatness" that never was.
Trump came to define the GOP because of his itchy twitter fingers created a fear so immense among his subjects that the emporer has been riding nude ever since.
Trump is not a conservative--he's not anything but a bundle of nervous energy that spews hate, xenophobia, and self-centereness. Yes, his philosopy is pretty much pro-business but that's on paper. Just look at the tariffs.
You conclude by reminding your peers they have choices, We all do. Choices inflicted Trump on us. Let's hope our next choices succeed in throwing him out.
243
Great comment!!!
2
The problem is that Ross' fantasized good-guy Republican Senators care about their party, and their country, only to the extent that the party and the country supports them. And if we put in "Democrats" for "Republicans," it's just as true. Trump is a result, a symptom, of a disfunctional electoral system. AND EVERYBODY KNOWS IT. Get rid of the Electoral College, move to a ranked-choice popular vote Presidential election, and we can attain a country where, most of the time at least, a sane, adequately competent, at least somewhat moderate person can be President. Nobody but the parasites will mourn the death of the national parties.
70
The Kids are gorgeous.
5
'And if we put in "Democrats" for "Republicans," it's just as true.'
Your false equivalency shows exactly how Trump was elected in the first place and why so many continue to support him even now, in the face of his heinous crimes, blatant immorality and denigration of our country's reputation to the world.
Given that self-preservation is the first law of American politics, it never ceases to amaze me how true conservatives can stay aboard what will surely become “...a floating hulk drifting between the icebergs of recession and foreign crisis, with all American conservatism onboard.“ But, the base!! The base will support whoever takes over after the disaster. Best to take Ross’s advice and right the ship before it’s too late.
5
It was insane March to the right that led to the election of Trump. And I am not just talking about the Republicans, the Democrats also. The Republican party has been the party of racism and xenophobia since Nixon. Ross, you are as responsible for Trump as the rest at the Republican Party.
The nation clearly wants change. Unfortunately many were fooled into believing this crazed narcissist was going to give them what they want. Perhaps, Just maybe, Elizabeth Warren will be able to give the nation what we need; structural change
69
Ah, more specious reasoning from a closet "ever-trumper." Mr. Douthat, you really amaze me. You fiddle upon your throne while your party is going up in flames and all you can do is dip your fingers into the bowl, taste the wine and adjust your toga. You're not fooling anyone.
Your roster of hypotheticals, beginning with Mitt Romney and a new "gang of four": the retiring Senators. There aren't 20 votes in the upper chamber. They are solidly behind their president. Of course, there are those who may be taking fright (Joni Ernst, Iowa, e.g.), but the others are content to spin the Ukraine atrocity as they will. How do you think the evangelicals feel about this? I would say they're in Mitch McConnell's hip pocket. And do you really think that he will allow an impeachment trial--in *his* house? In an election year? Do you really think he's in danger of being unseated by Amy McGrath?
Today's Republican Party was born in 1948 when Democrat Strom Thurmond of South Carolina walked out of the Democratic National Convention to protest Harry Truman's integration of the armed forces. The racists stewed, knowing they couldn't challenge Ike. They found their guy in Barry Goldwater who passed the John Birch Society's baton to Richard Nixon. It's what you have today.
Face it, Mr. Douthat: Republicans represent the rich and the white. They may hold their noses when it comes to their president. But he represents all the things that they are, have been, and ever will be: corruption.
583
Fantastic true words.
Rich, white and corruption.
I could add a few more but I will not...
4
To Red Sox: Most Americans can't plan a reasonable trip to take out the garbage, much less develop a strategy for the future as Mr. Douthat has. He may be covering his own behind in hopes that isn't permanent RIP for the Republican Party, but he sees a realistic future scenario much more clearly than most of our "leaders".
Republicans with strategic insight can actually see a rise of the Democrats merely because of ethnic population changes. Unless they can create a Republican Dictatorship within about 10 years it is "RIP GOP".
Ross Douthat sees that and realizes that a preliminary collapse of the Republican Party in 2020 is too soon to achieve their Dictatorship. So he dreams of Republicans sharing his vision, getting rid of Trump and replacing him with a substitute Dictator before the whole party gets flushed.
The skepticism expressed by Red Sox towards Mr. Dohthat is justified, but for much more nefarious reasons than expressed here.
4
Re Amy McGrath and the cemented in place good-old-boy machine in Kentucky: I see a disconnect between polls saying she is nipping at Mitch's heals and those who reject any chance of change, who say Kentucky culture is so fossilized that folks who voted against their interests in the past will never stop. Is there never a tipping point despite access to a wealth of information about how McConnell has sold them out? If old rich white boys have it all sewed up until the end of time, then why are they so afraid of 1) Amy McGrath and 2) changing demographics? Regardless of the future outcome, I am proud of Amy McGrath for making McConnell have to think and work to preserve his standing. Without her, he would not consider the optics of his shenanigans for a mili-second. It's a lot of well-deserved stress for an old white guy who has ignored the needs of voters for decades. If I were Mitch, I would consider joining the Republican exodus from congress while he still has a chance of not looking like a crook or being a Trump co-conspirator. More time with the family might not sound quite right since he's married to Elaine Chow, but I'm sure he can think of something.
2
“The second thing is a political near impossibility.” Recent political impossibilities that came to pass: a black man becoming president; a woman winning the popular vote; and a casino owner with four bankruptcies, three wives, and a predilection for porn stars and various dictators becoming the poster child of evangelicals and then president.
427
Actually he has declared bankruptcy 6 times not 4. Not to mention the times his father bailed him out of financial problems and the amount of money he inherited from his parents.
See:
politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/jun/21/hillary-clinton/yep-donald-trumps-companies-have-declared-bankrupt/
nytimes.com/2018/10/02/us/politics/donald-trump-wealth-fred-trump.html
2
As good a column as you have ever written. You did leave out the considerable advantage of greatly reducing the risk that one of Trump's children becoming POTUS.
4
The Clinton administration wasn't perfect; Clinton had moral failings in his personal life; but his cabinet and officers were not corrupt, nor was he.
Douthat is still on that GOP/Trump train, or he'd be able to see that. False equivalancy got us into this ditch, Ross. Rid yourself of it.
539
I hate to inform ross but he is one who will put party over country.
If he could look into aa crystal ball and see that the Dem President had done everything right making us a stronger, smartet and more stable country and regained the respect of everyone in the world, he would still vote for Trump in 2020.
The question is why?
It's not because Trump embodies traditional conservative ideals becaue he doesn't.
So why?
1
I'd go further than you David and note that having a "fling" with a beautiful young intern is not a "moral failing" but understandable. Men and women in long marriages may stray from time to time, it makes them human. Let's not perpetuate the myth of monogamy. I could care less about Trump's numerous affairs, what disgusts me is his racism, his lies, his vindictiveness, and the way he treats people.
2
“But in a bored-Roman-aristocrat drawl...”
First question: how does one imagine what the ‘drawl’ of the nobility of the Latium river region may have sounded like?
“An Al Gore presidency was a better timeline for Democrats, even though it would have required the horror of letting Ken Starr win.”
Second question: where is the portal to this alternate universe?
13
Actually, I thought that at the time, and doubt I was alone--Clinton should resign and let Gore take over and be an incumbent. I'd voted for them twice but was tired of Clinton and didn't want him around during the 2000 election. It was a fantasy, of course, and I haven't changed--can't the GOP see that today, the advantage of ousting Trump in time for the primaries?
2
Ross, most GOPers couldn’t find an off ramp with a map and two floodlights. Why should they ? Their entire “ Job “ is predicated upon falling in line, following orders and parroting predigested talking points on FOX “ news “. If any of them ever had an original thought, it’s a Christmas miracle. They just might get a lesson in humility, and unemployment.
Seriously.
355
I wish it would be unemployment, but, there are too many prominent firms that would love to have them on their boards or lobbying team. When the likes of Rudy Giuliani can get five and six figure contracts to represent companies, the bottom feeders from the GOP will do quite nicely, whatever happens to Trump, or a failed reelection.
3
I’m hoping for more than unemployment. I’m hoping for extinction.
1
The GOP passed up the last exit from Trumpland 20 or 30 years ago, when they made their peace with being driven by Fox & the right wing media anger industry. No conspiracy theory has been too fantastical, no hoax too absurd, no slander too outrageous for either the base or the party leadership. There simply are not enough billionaires who actually believe in the party’s steal from the middle class / give to the rich philosophy to make a viable election strategy. Populist / fascist manipulation is its only viable politics, and the only certainty is that the next GOP leader will be more outrageous, more dishonest.
263
What is it that distinguishes a Never-Trump conservative from those who would never abandon him, even if he has mortgaged our country to Russia? Until we figure out the pathology of the latter, the GOP is not likely to appreciably change. Is it intractable Liberal hatred?
126
I believe what mainly characterizes Republicans today is their refusal acknowledge the legitimacy of any Democrat President and anything they do, no matter how good the idea or how much sense it makes. Remember, Obamacare was a Heritage Foundation idea that Romney first implemented - successfully.
Republicans conspired to defy almost everything Obama *attempted* to accomplish literally hours after he was elected, while one of Trump's main goals (aside from his highly successful one of appointing Federalist Society judges, in concert with Mitch) has been to roll back everything Obama *did* accomplish.
It's Faustian Bargain, but they've done pretty well so far.
16
The GOP thought that St. Ronnie won them a permanent majority by inspiring the silent majority with his vision of America. Slick Willie's victory was a violation of the natural order that they finally put back after FDR and the Dems had destroyed it by expanding government and pressuring Republicans such as Ike and Tricky Dicky to accept it, but do things more cheaply and efficiently. The New Deal was being limited and rolled back piece by piece until Clinton somehow won and started reversing the progress.
In a fight to preserve or reestablish the natural order, anything goes. Newt made the political fight into a political war. Discussing which government programs work and deliver value and which need to be abandoned or reformed, using research, statistics, and careful reasoning is something Republicans have not done for decades. Policy is made on the basis of campaign contributions or on ideological grounds -- private is good and public is bad -- and sold by anecdote -- welfare queens, Willie Horton -- with no attempt to find out how typical or representative the anecdotes are.
It is no accident that Republicans wound up with Trump. They share a belief that democracy is fine as facade, as in Russia, but must be stopped from becoming a real, sober, reasoned consideration of the issues. Such a consideration opens the door to socialism, so it must be torpedoed immediately.
3
Its Liberal hatred, along with the fear that any defeat in the White House will prevent them from their dream of recreating the Supreme Court of Roger Taney and a federal government with the scope and power of the Buchanan administration.
2