A couple of comments on the article:
1) It isn't some Zionist- Israeli myth that this strip of land was not lived on 100 years ago. Aerial photographs from 1917 taken by the British Army show no housing there. After WWII, Jews bought land there and lived there until they were forced out in the 1930's by Arab rioters.
2) The Israel Prize Mr. Be'eri received is not the Israel equivalent of the Medal of Honor. The US Medal of Honor is a military decoration. The Israel Prize is a civilian honor sort of equivalent to the Presidential Medal of Freedom-but it is awarded by a civilian committee, and not the head of State.
27
"Well, here's another fine mess you've gotten us into?" It's a shame that archaeological finds (such as this one) do not create excitement and even (do I dare say) cooperation with the Palestinians and Jews involved in that region. I mean it's just downright cool that, hey, we just dug up another version of ourselves, our heritage--a "face" of the past, a piece of history for what life was like a millennia ago. But hmm... seems like they'd rather turn it into a political fireball instead of adding to the peace process-- losing all these "pieces" (and good will) in the process. Nobody wins here. What ever happened to the thrill of discovery... to boldy go (discovering ourselves as the Star Trek saga goes). What's the point of history if we can't learn from it?
8
Israel had the opportunity to take over the Temple Mount and destroy the mosques after the '67 war to lay claim to the holiest Jewish place, after a long conflict in which the occupants of the mount attacked Jews. Israel resisted temptation and not only did not destroy the mosques, they left them in Muslim hands. While Israel allowed the Muslims to control and pray there, Jews have been banned from payer. The Muslim Waqf has banned archaeology there- the most rich site in the world- and has also recklessly excavated with the intention of destroying history in order to deny that Jews ever occupied the mount.
Who has behaved properly, and who has been wrong? The Palestinians have acted terribly in this regard. They have no right to stop an excavation until they behave themselves.
12
How many Americans are aware of the great mound cultures that existed across North America? One of the great myths (lies) about this continent was that prior to the arrival of white Europeans it was a lightly occupied land bereft of any culture. The future occupants of the land have had to work very hard to keep the truth from coming to light. To this day, Americans drive by large Indian mounds adjacent to highways and think they are just hills, natural feature of the land. We behave as if we still feared that descendants of original cultures would make claims on the land if the full story were told. Jew share with many peoples a history of having been displaced from an ancient homeland. To unravel thousands of years of history and restore the land rights of every tribe and ethnic group on the planet would be impossible.
1
In the late 19th and early 20th centuries Silwan was the home of Yemenite Jewish silversmiths. For whatever they're worth here are a few of my own memories from later on. Unbeknownst to most Americans, on Friday nites
there was a popular sitcom on Israeli tv about a restaurant in the Old City that
inadvertently scheduled wedding celebrations by two families, Arab and Jewish,
at the same time. After bickering they made peace, and each Friday nite in
the largely Sephardic Jerusalem neighborhood in which I lived - and they were
all religious too - you could hear the laughter from all the open windows. But
the TA dinner theatre it was being turned into had to be scrapped when the intifada broke out but the replays went on. 2. On Erev Rosh Hashana 1964 I
went with some friends to Mandelbaum Gate. "If only there'd be peace," one
said, almost in tears. In 1967 he was commended for driving the bullion of
a major bank thru fire to safety. Baruch Hashem while we could go to the Wall it had been taken over by the dosim whilst a huge number of secular Jews, many of Israel's cultural elite, fled to Tel Aviv. And on the first nite of Chanukah 1987
Sharon evicted the Arab residents of a house he owned in the Old City. Next day returning from the East Jerusalem hospital where we'd gone to photograph the
wounded we asked the Arab cabby how he saw things."I have a recurrent dream," he said," that I'll wake up and find all the Jews gone." To both sides,
looks like we've done it again!
4
Excavations, authentic artifacts, biblical names-won't change Jerusalem's future. The Palestinians are trained to reject all Jewish claims, and its supporters will enhance the lie that today's Jews have no connection to Jews of old. 74 years after the Holocaust there are plenty of deniers, and that is recent history. Distortion, canards have no expiration date.
The digs are ongoing, have been long before the Jewish state was founded. And the Palestinians have their own digs, done illegally (yes, I know, they "own" this land) under the Temple Mount. Going on for years, with untold treasures destroyed forever. At one point Israel was worried they were undermining the supports of the plateau, too. But, some of the dumped dirt still yielded important findings.
Damage to above structures is their responsibility. Palestinian families who own properties in the city of David have a right to remain/not sell.
Peace will come when both sides negotiate in seriousness with respect that the other side isn't leaving. In the meantime, Jews, and others, will continue to use the Kotel Plaza, the associated tunnels which also aroused Palestinian anger, and Israel will complete its archeological digs. And commenters will largely deny Jews the "right" of their history. Shameful.
11
“Israel’s Absentee Property Law, which was passed in 1950 as a way of allowing the state to acquire Palestinian homes that were abandoned after 1948.” Except that the Palestinian properties were not abandoned. Their owners were forced out by military might. The law is not an unfortunate necessity, it is a reprehensible excuse for misappropriation.
I don’t doubt the truth of the archeological finds being unearthed in the City of David but does ancient presence justify contemporary injustice? Because a Jewish civilization existed on this site 2000 years ago does that excuse using transparently corrupt “legal” means to displace contemporary legitimate occupants? I don’t think so. If you do, would you also support returning all property in the U.S. to its indigenous inhabitants? After all, it’s only been a few hundred years since they were evicted.
The Palestinian/Israeli dilemma will not be resolved peacefully unless and until reasonable steps are taken to correct the wrongs done to the Palestinians in the name of doing right by the Jews. This would include ceasing to build settlements in territory recognized by the international community as Palestinian. Dominant both politically and economically, Israel would seem to be best positioned to extend an olive branch.
5
Always find it amusing to read well meaning journalists striving for balance while their “Palestinian” subjects refuse to cooperate. The reality is that handing authority to one side, and only one side, would result in total destruction of antiquities contrary to their political aims. Handing them political power would result in expulsion, not access to the courts and the voting booth. Handing them military power would result in genocide.
8
‘Jerusalem’ would never have been heard of were it not for the Jewish people. Now, after centuries of forced exile, inquisitions, pogroms, dhimmitude, and genocide, Jews have returned to reclaim what is rightfully theirs.
No more weeping by the waters of Babylon for thee, Zion. Jerusalem belongs to the Jewish nation. How generous of them to share it with people of ALL faiths...unlike the former occupiers.
10
We each are entitled to our own opinions. However, when the implementation of our opinions adversely affects others, we should not be allowed to so implement unless the implementation is clearly to the physical benefit of the majority of those affected. Thus, the concept that Israel can simply shove the Palestinians out of the way because - 3,000 years ago - someone remotely Jewish defeated someone remotely Palestinian to acquire the land (even though the fortunes had been the opposite earlier and later) seems outrageously false. It seems no different than the KKK being put in charge of deciding the rights and locations of African Americans in the early 20th century. The KKK were doctors and lawyers and other less educated people. They were friendly and supportive - of their own. I agree completely with Greig Olivier: if the land was once Israeli but now Palestinian, the Jews should not be allowed to take the land. Hang a plaque!
3
Maybe Bari Weiss, and the NYT, would care to do a survey/research on the connection between Holocaust denial and the denial that modern Jews have a historical connection to ancient Israel, with its more recent archaeological findings.
It would be telling. Maybe even more telling than what is dug out from layers of civilizations in eastern Jerusalem.
It might also help explain why Palestinians are still pathetically standing with their errant leaders who fail to represent them and the alleged quest for independence (but living alongside Israel).
11
But it isn't really about the history of Jewish civilization in ancient Israel, it's about how that ancient civilization relates to modern political claims. If we look at the stories in the Bible, there is a good case that descendants of the ancient Canaanites have a prior claim to that of the Israelites. And, last I heard, it turns out that those Bible stories are inaccurate, and the Israelites actually were simply one of the original Canaanite tribes. Who knows what that would mean in terms of international law. Modern Israel is making its claim in the old way, by military force.
That said, its true that ignorant anti-Semitism on the Palestinian side is terrible. Between the corrupt and toxic Palestinian leadership, and the fanatical Israeli settler movement, it's hard to see any hope in the region. We can only hope that there are some people simply trying to live decent lives, who don't get into the news and who aren't represented by the leadership on either side.
At Hebrew U studying archaeology, In 1966 the digging was in its infancy, and there was still a shared sense between Israeli's and Palestinians of their intimate relationships. The Palestinians are our brothers, you cannot dispute this. even biblical scholars must admit the entanglement of blood and guts, that Hebrews and Palestinians have 99% match of their genes. The propaganda that seeps like water through rocks, or the visible cracks in the Palestinian houses from the dig place physical, political and emotional stalemates to any cooperation. This has been for decades and for just as long small gestures of longer arms have reached to hold hands with one another. When a Palestinian scholar can state there was no temple, we have no grounds for conversation. This is propaganda. Look what it has done in the US in so short a time. There is no fairy dust to sprinkle, just unrelieved partisanship of your side, my side. The truth, stripped of propaganda is that we are both Semites, of the same tribe. United there will be peace. Until a majority of the people living on this land can recognize they are a mirror to one another there will be strife. In my lifetime more than fifty years has passed since living in Jerusalem and the West Bank/ The peace attempts, the proxy wars, the enforced terror is too raw and painful to sustain. From my distance the only solution has always been the potential of an equality of life. perhaps impossible
3
Much of the world can say whatever it wants.
Israel is the ancestral home of the Jewish people. Read the Bible. It is pretty specific and was not written yesterday.
Jews lived in Israel until they were kicked out by the Romans in 70CE.
For 2,000 years we have been praying three times a day to return.
We have returned.
During that time in exile we discovered that many others were not fond of us.
We were without any power, a marginalized people.
Now we are back where we belong.
We are not leaving.
No one can kick us out now.
And no one will tell us how to live in our own land.
39
Ok, read the Bible. The Hebrews were given the land of Israel by the god of the Hebrews, who ordered them to kick out the Caananites who were the ancient residents of the land.
Modern disputes over territory are what happens when people use religious texts to justify political positions.
3
Apparently the part about kicking out the Canaanites was a later legend: the Israelites were Canaanites who at some point developed an origin myth of Exodus from Egypt and conquest of Canaan. The legitimate archeologists working on the East Jerusalem site must be aware of this. I wonder if they feel it necessary to point it out to tourists. It might not make much difference to those who are mostly concerned with the story of King David, and Solomon's Temple and so on.
1
Obviously, this is a very emotional subject, and regardless of how much evidence is obtained to prove or verify the ancient City of King David, or King Solomon’s Temple, there will be people who will claim otherwise. I suppose one day we will find the site of the tree from which all of our ancestors climbed down from to wander the earth and evolve into Homo erectus and Homo sapiens. This site and others like it should be treated by everyone as historically important and shared by all human beings. One day, this planet we call earth, will be vaporized by the death throes of our Sun. None of this will matter one bit. The thing that matters is today. Hope is the unthinkable compromises humans must make in order to survive and thrive. It’s a possibility! However, the probability of success depends on discarding tribal traditions and imbracing the idea that we are all humans trying to survive on this ball of dirt surrounded by a fragile evolving biosphere.
41
Agreed. Jerusalem should be a World Heritage site belonging to all humanity.
2
If the Palestinians uncovered this they would immediately destroy it. On the other hand the Jews would preserve it. I lived in Jerusalem for one year as an exchange student. Probably the best year of my life by far. The idea that it would ever be split was an anathema, and anyone living there would understand why.
13
The foundation of this conflict is religious. If every Israeli and every Palestinian became secular overnight they could just share a single country.
To Palestinians denying the historic connection to Israel for the Jews, I say look to your own Holy Book. Jews and Israelites are mentioned repeatedly in the Quran, often as the "Children of Israel."
To Israelis who claim that this historical connection gives them the right to run roughshod over the lives of the Palestinians I say this: You are conquerors. The religious connection that you claim to that land was the meat of the covenant that you believe God made with your people. He required Moses to wander the desert for 40 years so an entire generation could die before seeing the promised land, which was promised in exchange for keeping the covenant. Military conquest against the British can hardly be seen as sufficient for that. If historical connection to a land were sufficient to retake it, then Macedonia would belong to Greece and native americans would be the only citizen of the United States.
Here are the facts: Israel exists. It's not going away. It controls the lives of the Palestinians within its borders. Many of them are descended from villages that were destroyed in what is now greater Israel. We may deplore their methods, and even their reasoning for fighting against Israel, but they have a claim. They also deserve citizenship somewhere. They spend Shekels and Israel controls their borders. They are Israelis.
3
Since when has Israel cared who's land it is? Certainly not in my lifetime.
1
In the 1948 Arab-Israeli war, Jordan seized the eastern parts of Jerusalem and the Old City (and also unsuccessfully shelled, besieged and attacked western Jerusalem). The Jordanians evicted very single Jew living in the Old City, demolished the Jewish Quarter (including some 50 synagogues), and for the next 19 years prohibited Jews from visiting or worshiping at the holiest sites in Judaism, the Temple Mount and Western Wall.
What did "the world" do in the face of these outrages? The short answer is "NOTHING".
And yet the NY Times is telling us that "much of the world" seems to be outraged at an archeological dig in Jerusalem, the most important city in Judaism for the past some 3000 years.
23
No, "much of the world" isn't outraged by the archaeology (although digging under people's houses is a pretty crazy way to do archaeology). The world disagrees with Israel's seizure of East Jerusalem as Israeli territory, contrary to international law. It's true that the behavior of Jordan, and other countries in the region, has been outrageous. But to claim to be no worse than Jordan is to set the bar about as low as it will go.
1
Yeah and the Israelites ruined stuff for the Canaanites and so on. Guess the blame game isn't really doing things better when you pass a certain age.
Zionism is the only nationalism that aimed to reconstitute an ancient Jewish nation on land that they had in ancient times shared with other peoples who continued to inhabit that land. The Zionist leaders were very clear eyed about what it would take to achieve their goal -- the near complete ethnic cleansing of the inhabitants of Palestine. This is what they achieved by harnessing the imperialism, racism, Christian Zionism, and anti-Semitism, of the Christian Whites. It was a game of power: pure and simple. There is no need to bring the Holocaust into this story.
At the time Zionism was establishing itself as a movement in the late 19th century, anyone could have seen that the creation of a Jewish state in Palestine would create the conditions for a global wars between the West and Islam. But the West was at the height of its power at this time and Muslims were prostrate. Once created, the Jewish state would dedicate itself to undermining, fragmenting and weakening the Islamic world and especially the Islamic population in the Middle East; and this could not be done without the economic and military power of the Western world, principally the USA.
This the logic that is being played out before our very eyes. But now we have the rise of Asian powers, declining US power, and global warming. How will this play out?
The next century offers some interesting, yet unknowable possibilities. Enjoy the ride!
2
Native Americans were forced off of the very land that the New York Times' offices sit on. This was accomplished by lies, worthless treaties and brute force. Are you ready to hand the land back to the rightful owners?
7
Two wrongs don't make a right.
2
Yes Europeans ethnically cleansed the New World including the Americas , Australia , NZ , etc but this did not happen in 1948 or later. It was mostly between 1500-1850. In the 2nd half of the 20th century it is only in Palestine that a group of foreigners , who shared no common borders with the target area , descended on it and ethnically cleansed it.
If the New World had not been discovered until 1948 I doubt that Europeans would have done what they did to the indigenous population. Palestine was partitioned in 1922 into Trans-Jordan and Palestine (Cis-Jordan). The population density:
1/ In 1922 it was 94 people/square mile ,11% Jewish .
2/ In 1933 it was 130 people/sq mi , 17% Jewish .
3/ In 1942 it was 200 people /sq mi.
A 2017 DNA study by the Welcome Trust found that current Lebanese “derive 93% of their ancestry from the Canaanites.”, The DNA was extracted from bones 3,750 years old & compared to modern Lebanese DNA. . “Based on this study it turns out that people who lived in Lebanon almost 4,000 years ago were quite similar to people who live there today.” The same must be true of the Palestinians. (former Judaists).
Yet via rigged UN Resol. #181, 56% of Palestine was given to European Jews who have only 8% Near East DNA (ie are not Semites). FYI only 14 US states had a higher population density in 2013 than Palestine in 1942. Palestine ,a land without a people is Zionist propaganda. It belongs to its indigenous people not the 20th century foreigner colonists.
1
What to make of the 7 nations that possessed the land before they were driven out by the Israelites? If first in time is dispositive,that is?
4
Independently what the digs will find, Jerusalem is the capital of Israel, and the world should accept this
8
And you really believe that those who do not believe will change their mind because of some facts? How naive can you be? Don't you know that king David was Palestinian and that Jerusalem was Palestine's capital? Facts are no longer count in telling the truth
4
I take the subtext of this to be grounds for taking more land away from Palestinians. After all as I've heard it so often said, there many Muslims countries but only one israel. I think you should just be honest about saying it here. And the rest of us will then be asked to balance the here alleged lies of Arafat against the declared affection for the perfume of fascism of Netanayu.
2
Jerusalem belongs to all peoples on this planet. Not to the Jews. Not to the Muslims. Not to the Catholics. Not to any religion. It is part of OUR collective history.
2
The front-page sub-headline--"That much of the world does not believe
belongs to Israel" is rather oddly worded for a news story and has an unmistakable antagonistic bias. This is not objective journalism.
As the NY Times editorial board surely knows, "much of the United States
populace" believes that JFK was killed by a conspiracy and "much of the
United States population" believes in astrology and ghosts, according to consistent polls. It seems that the point of this sub-heading is to denigrate Israel.
4
Another unbiased article by the NYT.
"Jerusalem was a divided city after Israel’s 1948 war for independence. The West was Israeli. The East was a Jordanian-ruled Palestinian city"
Neither true nor accurate.
The East was a *Jordanian* city. It was not a Palestinian city and not a Jordanian-ruled Palestinian city.
At the time there were NO people who called themselves Palestinian.
At the time, the entire Arab world mockingly called the Jews "Palestinians".
At the time, all Arabs living in the West Bank had Jordianian citizenship. The few who disagreed with the fact of King Hussain's rule of the area, for any reason was jailed by him.
At the time - Bank Leumi of today was the "Anglo Palestine Bank"; the Jerusalem Post of today was then "The Palestine Bulletin" and later "The Palestine Post", etc.
When Arabs rule over an area the area is Jordanian or Syrian; when Jews govern the same area, it magically becomes "Palestinian".
8
Thank you!!
3
WHEN Mexico won independence from Spain in 1821, it claimed vast territories in the American West. When Mexican soldiers attacked US convoys, America went to war with Mexico in 1846. The US won, and negotiated the Treaty of Guadalupe-Hidalgo in 1848. As the price of defeat, Mexico surrendered all or parts of Texas, California, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, Utah, Wyoming and Colorado.
When Egypt, Jordan and the other Arab League states attacked Israel in 1967, Israel defeated them in 6 days. Israel took control of the West Bank and later annexed East Jerusalem, that is, the half of Jerusalem it did not own before the war. When a country loses an offensive war it started pledging to “Drive the enemy into the sea,”(Egyptian president Nasser) the victor occupies the defeated country's captured territory. Jerusalm has been a Jewish capitol city since 1000BC, more than 1500 years before Islam ever existed.
When the United States returns to Mexico: Texas, California, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, Utah, Wyoming and Colorado, then let's discuss East Jerusalem.
AntiSemites haul out their bogus International Law claims only to oppress Jews.
16
Sooooooo three wrongs make a right ?
Historians including Jewish historians & now DNA studies show that the 20th century colonists of Palestine (the Ashkenazi) are not descended from Semites but from Europeans who converted to Judaism in the Roman Empire era + the Khazars who converted from paganism c750 CE. eg.
1/ “Historian & Israeli former minister of Education Ben-Zion Denur called Khazaria the mother of one of the greatest Diasporas-of Israel in Russia, Lithuania & Poland”
2/ Abraham Polak, founder of Univ of Tel Aviv`s Dept`t of Mid East History wrote that it was an unlikely thesis that the Jews in the Khazarian kingdom originated in Palestine ie.no Abrahamic descent.
3. Ben Gurion wrote that there was no exile after the Romans put down the revolts of the 1st & 2nd centuries & that most of the Jews converted to Islam in the 7th century to avoid paying the tax on all non-Muslims.
4/ A 2017 DNA study by the Welcome Trust found that current Lebanese “derive 93% of their ancestry from the Canaanites.”, The DNA was extracted from bones 3800 years old & compared to modern Lebanese DNA. The same must be true of the Palestinians. (former Judaists).
5/ Jewish historian Josephus wrote that prior to the revolt of 66-70 CE, 6 million Jews lived in the Roman Empire outside Israel & only 500K lived inside. He lived thru the revolt= No Diaspora.
Palestine belongs to the Pal`s not the 20th century invaders who are NOT Semites.
1
King David is a myth, just like Zeus - What a joke! Here's all you need to know about human nature: You get what you give.
Wow, what a shock. Another piece from Bari Weiss claiming that Jewish history doesn't belong to the Jews. I would advise the Times that just for believability's sake, they ought to change the characters sometimes.
3
So Jews of Russian or Polish descent like Liberman and Netanyahu can come to the Holy Land as if it belongs exclusively to them because of a 3000 year old religious connection but native Palestinian refugees who were ethnically cleansed cannot return to land where their ancestors lived on continuously for thousands of years?
Muslims had a glorious civilization in Spain until only 500 years ago when they were expelled in the Inquisition. However, if the Rohingya Muslim victims of genocide from Burma claimed that this entitled them to ethnically cleanse the present day Catholic Spaniards of Andalusia they would be met with ridicule and derision- how is it that modern day Zionists in turn are not in much of the American establishment?
1
Muslims are free to visit Israel -- if they behave. Just like people can come to visit your house. Ownership rights -- you have the right to control access to your house, your body, your country.
3
In your huge, centred, multi-titled, map of the divisions of Jerusalem, you infer rather strongly that the City of David has been Palestinian for the majority of its modern existence and that Jews only resettled it after 1967 in modern times. Nothing can be farther from the truth. A small Bedouin tribe moved into the tombs in Silwan (The City of David) in the 18th century and slowly built a village of mud huts with thatched roofs. Yemenite Jews began moving into Silwan in the 1830's just as the Bedouin bagan building more permanent housing. Silwan was a mixed village of Jews and Muslims. In the 1930's, when anti-semitism swept through the Middle East and the Nazi powers stroked these hateful veiws for political gain, the Arabs of Silwan (as well as other Arab towns, villages and cities in the "West Bank") chased the Jews out of town, raping and pillaging their way through the Jewish homes. Those homes stand to this day, stolen by the "Palestinians".
If you are only reporting half of the story you aren't being a very good journalist and maps like that are mere propaganda pieces to help back the myth established by the Left and the Palestinians. It isn't true.
16
There is no God who parcels out land to his chosen people by the square foot.
4
Tell that to the Muslims. They worship the same God as Jews and Christians, and in their view, land that was once a mosque is a mosque forever. Non-Muslims are forbidden to enter Mecca.
3
The Palestinians could do the world a big favor and gain a lot of sympathy if they did this kind of research on their own - with an eye for unearthing the truth, instead of destroying any trace of the Jewish past.
5
The land belongs to those who live on it. The dead don't count and cannot vote. One of Israel's greatest qualities is its archeological program. But, if the land being studied belongs to Palestinians, ownership must be respected. Hang a plaque.
12
if ownership is respected, their right to vote is also inviolate.
1
Next time a bulldozer runs over some the Native American graves, tell this to the Native Americans who feel violated.
1
Bari Weiss fails to mention the destructive excavations of the Waqf on the temple mount itself. Where they have bulldozed out layers of historical artifacts in order to erase the connection of the site to the history of Israel.
18
There is no doubt that Jews can accurately claim a historical presence in the land they call Israel, as this archeological dig clearly establishes.
But so can numerous other prior inhabitants of exactly the same place before Jews existed as an identifiable ethno/religious group - the Natufians, the Egyptians, the Hiksos, the Hittites, the Greeks, the Assyrians, and the Phoenecians (ancestors of modern Palestinians) as well as people from other ethnic groups who have settled there over millenia.
This article misleadingly focuses only on Jewish historical roots to this land, which is the Zionist justification for an exclusively Jewish state - a claim of exclusive right to the land based on a completely false and distorted reading of history.
3
Do you believe in the concept of private property? Muslims own all of Saudi Arabia, and they insist Mecca is exclusively for Muslims, though Jews and Christians lived there before Muhammad.
3
How does the discovery of ancient artifacts in Israel that might impact the right-of-ownership of the land there compare to similar discoveries of even older Native American artifacts in the USA?
2
IF AT FIRST ...
Anyone capable of being objective would conclude that a 3000-year-old bulla is insignificant next to the Ottoman census of 1878, in which Jewish residents constituted between 4½ and 5 percent of the population of the territory of ancient Israel, while 86% were Moslem?
And we are to believe that a bulla more relevant than the international law that established modern Israel? (To fanatics maybe, to whom it is “everything,” but not to fair-minded people. Does Ms. Weiss expect us to believe that “if only” the science was there in the 1940s the Jewish settlers that owned 8% of the territory and constituted some 33% of the population would have been awarded more than 57% of the land they were given?)
Three wars and one intifada later, the PLO amended its charter to recognize Israel’s right to 73% of the British Mandate (which constituted the original Israel-Palestine). Since then, in violation Article 49 of the Fourth Geneva Convention, Israel has been establishing “facts on the ground” to occupy more and more of the other 27% of the land.
And the irony is that neither Israel’s leader nor Ms. Weiss are doing any favors for the land they claim to love – absent a two-state solution Israel will have to choose between remaining a democracy or a Jewish state because she cannot remain both. If the idealistic and brave women and men who founded the modern state could see what is being done in their name they would never stop throwing up.
2
In America, the indigenous people have no rights, and their ancient history is controlled by the colonizers. In Israel, the indigenous people have seized control of their history and their destiny, which obviously has all the imperialists and colonizers in the neighborhood upset. This is our history, this is our culture, and this is our land. Resist oppression, respect indigenous rights.
6
" In Israel, the indigenous people have seized control of their history and their destiny"
No, they have not. The indigenous people are the ones who've been there for 2,000 years and are now being driven out. If you want to take that definition of indigenous back, then the indigenous people might just as well be the ones driven out by the original Jews 3,000 years ago, who in turn were ancestors of the present population now being driven out.
Only by a narrow window of definition, defined by the religion of one group, can this be said.
2
Where in the canon of international law does it say the eastern half of one's capital city belongs to someone else? Stating "international law" says something, since there is no court to adjudicate it, really means, "In my opinion..." After all, in the absence of an international constitution or a court ruling, that's all it is.
Let's remember that nowhere in the UN partition of Palestine in 1948 was Jordan given sovereignty over any part of Jerusalem. Therefore in 1948 Jordan violated international law. No one called Jordan's conquer of Jerusalem a "violation of international law", oh yeah...double standards..if it weren't for double standards critics of Israel would have no standards at all.
Remember Jordan attacked Israel in 1967. Israel liberated the eastern half of Jerusalem in a DEFENSIVE war. Thus, Israel is not in violation of international law. The US agrees. This opinion is just as valid as anyone else's.
I don't mind opinions Israel violates some principle, I object to expressing it as a fact. As if everyone excepts this nonsense. How can a country that provides democracy to everyone in Jerusalem (yes, Arabs in Jerusalem vote in Israeli elections), protects rights of women and homosexuals, be violating international law when the regime that preceded it provided none of these rights and neither does the Palestinian Authority?
Jerusalem is Israel's capital. That is simple reality. Dig away! I want to know what's there. These objections are nonsense.
9
"Where in the canon of international law does it say the eastern half of one's capital city belongs to someone else?"
That would be the one that says none of the city is ours, not your capital at all, and is subject to future agreement.
There are numerous ancient Jewish sites in the West Bank and even in Gaza there are remains of ancient synagogues.
And just how do Palestinian Antiquities archaeologists deal with and relate to these sites? What of their state of conservation?
What of the magnificent remains of Hasmonean and Herodian palaces in Tulul Abu al- Alyaik in Jericho? The ancient synagogue in Naaran and in Eshtemoa?
And the list goes on.
When it is Jewish, then the Palestinians are in a state of archaeological denial.
Compare this with Israeli academia and the study inter alia of Arab-periods archaeology in Israel?
Compare this with the destruction of Jewish remains on the Temple Mount itself by the Waqf?
Yes, archaeology is political. But when the remains are Jewish, the Palestinians do not hesitate to look the other way or bring in tractors.
This is perhaps the most important archaeological site of all in relation to ancient Israel. It will remain Israeli; if not, it will not remain.
10
Many of the opponents of the dig aren’t just arguing that it is unjust and an abuse of the law. They are saying that the archaeological discoveries have been faked and that there is no evidence of a Jewish civilization here.
Palestinians only betray their worthy cause by the use of insulting and nonsensical assertions such as these. Someday a leader must arise out of these bedevilled people who understands relief from injustice will not come through stoking hatred, but by pointing out with all due passion what good will rather than acrimony between first cousins could achieve to the maximum benefit and happiness of every blessed man woman and child who calls the land of milk and honey their home.
6
American Tax dollars are paying for this dig. Why? Isn't it about time we stopped with the foreign aid to countries that have no debt while we are mired in 20 + trillion dollar debt?
The whole biblical history of this area is mythology and what ever "evidence" they find will be used to bolster the Jewish claim that it is their "promised land" and the Palestinian people should be driven out of the "Holy" land that is anything but holy.
2
I once visited the museum in Toronto and had the opportunity to see ancient columns and artifacts on loan from the State of Israel. How do I know they were from Israel and not faked to prove ownership? Were they from some made-up place? Because I could clearly read the Hebrew inscriptions and translate them. Can Palestinians go to museums today and see remnants of their own history on display? No, because there is no such thing as a Palestinian museum because there is no such people with an ancient history in Judea. The people known as "Palestinians" are originally Arabs from Arabia. Jews are from Judea. The Arabs who live in East Jerusalem today refuse to pay "arnona" or municipal taxes. They build illegally everywhere and what they build is often substandard and will be the first things to collapse in an earthquake (25 years overdue) because the city has never given them building permits. They receive benefits from the State but do not contribute to its continued existence. For generations, Arabs have tried to erase the Jewish presence in Jerusalem and elsewhere. Every time they excavate or "renovate" inside the al Aqsa mosque compound, they destroy any archaeological proof by throwing Jewish, Roman and even Hittite artifacts down the cliffs into heaps of stone. They cannot be trusted with the sanctity of the city and Jews and Christians know this well.
10
This is a sad reality. Israel is gradually turning into an extremist, cruel occupying country - the continues occupation has a terrible impact on the Israeli public. The lack of any criticism or leadership from the US is encouraging this process. Sad.
2
Just wait until American Indians, the descendants of Attila and those of the Vikings adopt their own versions of this logic.
I must object STRONGLY to the dating used in this story about the history of Jews and Israel.
Jesus may or may not have lived, or be a fictional character. It MAY be reasonable to express dates as being before his supposed birth (BC). It is entirely unacceptable to express dates about the Jewish people, who originated the modern concept of a single, ineffable god, melania prior to Jesus supposed birth, as being "after God" (AD).
In that sense, the article is insufferable.
7
Naomi Janowitz, Professor of Religious Studies at the University of California, Davis, agrees that Judaism was originally monolatrous. When I told her I thought the transition to monotheism took place during the Babylonian captivity, she contradicted me, and said that transition was much later, in the early Christian era.
"Melania" looks good for her age.
1
"It is entirely unacceptable to express dates about the Jewish people, who originated the modern concept of a single, ineffable god, melania prior to Jesus supposed birth,"
The Old Testament/Hebrew bible makes it abundantly clear many times that there was No Monotheism in Palestine even up to Josiah c625 BC. The bible says that Josiah was pious because he was striving to squelch the multi-deism that existed forever. He was not successful as the Assyrians withered & the Egyptians retook control of Palestine only to fall to the Babylonians
1
Well, the "United States," the source of much of Israel's funding, is only a few hundred years old, much younger than the recorded history of the Levant. And we've taken it all from the aboriginal peoples of North America. Should we give it back to them in a thousand years or so? Or now?
The entire history of the world is just one big land grab, one big encroachment, of a people upon another. Who rightfully owns Texas? The various tribes who fought it out over millennia? The Spanish? The Mexicans? The original white settlers? The U.S. government? In the abstract, the concept of rightful ownership of land is a sort of "musical chairs" played in the theatre of the absurd. Please though, leave me out of it. I'm tired.
2
Ms. Weiss: Thank you again for an insightful article from Israel. Two points:
However, to people such as myself (i.e., atheists and agnostics), we view the entire situation in the Middle East especially in Jerusalem, as a pox upon the world. If indeed there is a god (and a devil), it cannot be disputed that the disharmony in the Middle East, which has brought so much misery to the world for centuries, is the work of the devil, preying upon the minds of Christians, Jews, and Muslims alike. So here's what I'd like to do with the entirety of Jerusalem: Detonate some sort of neutron bomb that would make the area radioactive for 1000 years and there no longer would be anything to fight about.
Second, the fallacy of the argument in favor of the Israelis claiming it as their own is the statement about, "Jewish indigenous claim to the land of Israel." If that's your position, then we may as well turn over all of the US and the rest of the Americas to native Americans. None of us can change the past, we can only live in the present and lan from the mistakes of the past to make for a better future. When the Israelis talk about their claim to this area because of some people who lived there thousands of years ago, they sound like a bunch of fanatics and the US should look long and hard at whether the nation of Israel is deserving of our support.
1
The "much of the world" doesn't know or care about an arcane dispute about this tiny piece of land. It only knows that if it doesn't toe the Palestinian line, it may be the victim of terrorist attacks.
2
Anyone capable of being objective would conclude that a 3000-year-old bulla is insignificant next to the Ottoman census of 1878, in which Jewish residents constituted between 4½ and 5 percent of the population of the territory of ancient Israel, while 86% were Moslem?
And we are to believe that a bulla more relevant than the international law that established modern Israel? (To fanatics maybe, to whom it is “everything,” but not to fair-minded people. Does Ms. Weiss expect us to believe that “if only” the science was there in the 1940s the Jewish settlers that owned 8% of the territory and constituted some 33% of the population would have been awarded more than 57% of the land they were given?)
Three wars and one intifada later, the PLO amended its charter to recognize Israel’s right to 73% of the British Mandate (which constituted the original Israel-Palestine). Since then, in violation Article 49 of the Fourth Geneva Convention, Israel has been establishing “facts on the ground” to occupy more and more of the other 27% of the land.
And the irony is that neither Israel’s leader nor Ms. Weiss are doing any favors for the land they claim to love – absent a two-state solution Israel will have to choose between remaining a democracy or a Jewish state because she cannot remain both. If the idealistic and brave women and men who founded the modern state could see what is being done in their name they would never stop throwing up.
2
mkc you absolutely right! In addition, the problem with middle east over the last millennium is all the three religions have a fundamental issue to compromise; The premise on which all three are based is my "God" is the "God".
mkc, Your “facts” are rather mixed up:
1. Jews were a plurality in Jerusalem since the mid-1800s, and a majority from around 1870.
2. The PLO never amended its charter. It held the meeting in which such amendment was to be made—but it was never voted upon, never adopted.
3. (Trans)Jordan got 78% of the Mandate for Palestine territory—in 1922.
4. Article 49 does not apply. Read the Article. It was written after World War 2 to prevent the *forcible* transfer of populations. Also, given that Transjordan illegally invaded and occupied Judea and Samaria, which Israel rightfully regained in a *defensive* war in 1967, the Article doubly does not apply.
2
Leaving aside for a moment the question of what belongs to who in Jerusalem, could someone here please tell me the name -- and if possible the email address -- of a single Palestinian leader who has ever clearly, unequivocally and publicly indicated a desire and willingness to make a permanent peace with a Jewish State of Israel with defensible borders in exchange for an independent, demilitarized State of Palestine?
I have been waiting around for one to appear since 1948 and would like to send him a $100. contribution for his next political campaign.
8
"a desire and willingness to make a permanent peace with a Jewish State of Israel"
Many accepted the State of Israel, and then Israel changed the requirement to "Jewish state" while refusing to define that in a way that does not amount to ethnic exclusion of non-Jews. So of course, nobody else there accepted that, which was of course the point for Israeli leaders who moved the goal posts.
2
No matter how you couch this....ie Israel is more civilized, democratic, fairer than the Palestinians some of which is true and some of which is false what is being done here is wrong
It will come back to haunt Israel in some way, shape or form.
They used to have the support of most of the world (save the arab world) but it has eroded over time especially recently with moves like this.
2
"the needs of people... are far more important than ....." is the same argument always used to justify the destruction of natural areas such as wetlands, forest or prairie to make way for development of cities, suburbs, industry and agriculture. The needs of today's people always trump other more ancient values, no more clearly visible than the global holocaust of extinctions in the face of nearly eight billion people. We are sacrificing the world for the fleeting temporal needs of an ocean of humanity.
1
Bari Weiss writes, "The difference is that when a Jew buys an apartment in the 18th arrondissement, her presence does nothing to hurt her neighbor’s national aspirations." She is obviously too young to remember when many neighborhoods in the USA had the rule "No Jews Allowed".
6
How about living in the now, instead of the past?
By this logic all of North America and more "belongs" to native americans. Sounds reductionist. And who lived in the land of the city of a david land before it was the city of david. These arguments are ridiculous.
2
Bari - I wonder who (if anyone) could have told you that "For Western liberals who like to imagine that this conflict is exclusively about borders, this denialism is a wake-up call. Some people I spoke to compared it to the denial of the Holocaust".
Whoever said it (hopefully the "some" is single and not more than that) should be ashamed and you as Jewish a reporter should know much better than that.
As a child of a Holocaust survivor who lived in Jerusalem, I take personal offense in this nonsense.
1
Arabs living in Jerusalem have the right to vote in municipal elections and to sit on the city council . What's more, they once had, but rejected, the right to enjoy full Israeli citizenship. That they 'boycott' elections and eschew citizenship is because they are legitimately afraid by Palestinian terrorists and fear for their lives should they actually act and vote in their own self interests. This is the tragedy of Israel, that it cannot properly help its Arab residents who know their lives are in danger if they accept such help.
5
Quoting "After all, one man, David, is both the king of Israel, a prophet of the Muslims and the progenitor of the line that gave the world Jesus." The problem with all monotheistic practices.
1
"“All of it is Islamic. There are no Jewish antiquities."
(Islam was founded about 1600 years after the time of David, and about 600 years after the time of Jesus)
It is impossible to make peace with someone who will not acknowledge your right to breath.
As soon as an Arab leader emerges who is willing to tell his own people that the Jews must be allowed half a loaf, and that the Arabs must be willing to accept half, and only half, a peace deal with be made in about ten minutes.
19
"Temple-denial" on the part of some Palestinians and Muslims is indeed a grave intellectual error, which all who cherish history and archaeology as true sources of knowledge fundamental to our civilization must denounce.
But a no less grave offense against history is committed by those Zionists who deny that the land historically called Palestine, including Jerusalem and modern Israel, has been for centuries the true homeland of many people, Christians and Muslims. That Palestinians are not allowed to enjoy the rights that are theirs, and instead have to deal with displacement, impoverishment, constant indignities, and the oppressive dreadful climate of impending violence, is one of the most horrendous offenses against history of our age.
I am not religious. In fact, I am anti-religious. So, I don't have a religious bias.
Has the politically correct world reached such absurdity that it denies the jews' claim to Jerusalem? That it denies that the jews have the first, deepest, and best claim to Jerusalem? Only religion can produce so much hate and fanaticism and blind people to basic historical facts. I support the archeological digs - the more science, the better. But, just to further my point, do we need more archeological digs to convince people of the jews' superior claim to Jerusalem? People, read some history and think for yourselves.
And stop the hating and the fascism.
3
To me, this whole thing repudiates any claims that Jews might have to any particular place based on historical claims of occupation. It's all turning out to be the mythology that any sane person would expect. Does it really matter where the original city of david might be? It's no more interesting than a reliquary that contains the putative big toe of jesus.
1
I will take seriously the thought that the ancient roots of the Jewish people in that land entitle them to claim that land today, when all the adherents of that position give all the property they own to the native American tribes who formerly lived where they live. (And, elsewhere in the world, to whatever people inhabited their land two thousand years ago.) Ms Weiss should offer proof that she has given all she owns to Native Americans, and then I will try to be moved by her account of how real is the ancient Jewish presence underneath Palestinian houses.
1
An Arab puts his Jerusalem property on the market. A Jew buys it. The author indicates this is a crime. (When Jordan held half of Jerusalem it was a capital offense.)
A Jew puts his property somewhere in Israel on the market. An Arab buys it (this happens quite often in mixed towns like Haifa). No one blinks an eyelash.
There is something wrong in one of these paragraphs. Tell me which one.
6
"Finder's Keepers"
that appears to be the logic here. huh.
On the one hand, Jerusalem was a Jebusite hill village that David less conquered than incorporated into his personal holdings, as he had no stake in Hebron where the Kenizzite clan held sway. He named several of sons after the Jebusite god Shalim, had dealings with Jebusite notables to secure cultic properties. His son Solomon abused the northern Israelite tribes with high taxes and levies which caused their revolt and the split of the kingdom.
However, no matter what the historical relevance, the Jewish people will no more surrender Jerusalem then their right hand. Who represents the Palestinians? Magazine writers? Hamas? Stone-throwers? Three junior Congress-women? Israel is represented by the state, the IDF and (at the moment) Trump. The Palestinians and the world courts can go back two millenniums and adjudicate the Roman empire, none of which will make any difference. Whoever can see an end to thousands of years of turmoil in the Middle-East or elsewhere, should explain how such a thing could happen. The "right" thing to do, whatever that could be, has had little effect on human conduct since time began.
A minor point: I'm not sure what the "Israel Prize" is but Israel's "equivalent of the Medal of Honor" is the Medal of Valor (since 1970) before which it was the Hero of Israel medal.
3
I am no Zionist, but when the Muslims/Palestinians allow excavation on the temple mount, obviously respecting the mosques that are there, and allow Jews to pray alongside them at the sites holy to both, I will have some feelings towards their rights.
3
By historical criteria, just about all of the United States belongs to the Native American tribes.
1
Jerusalem is central to the Jewish identity. One of our most sacred prayers begins "If I forget thee O Jerusalem let my right hand lose its cunning." When Passover begins on April 19 Jews will assertively declare that they will celebrate the next Seder in Jerusalem by reciting from the Hagaddah: Next year in Jerusalem.
There is no mention of Jerusalem in the Koran.
4
Flawed journalism #2 in this article:
Ms. Weiss makes it seem that the Palestinians of the eastern neighbourhoods are not citizens of Israel due to Israeli cruelty. The FACT of the matter is that all residents of the eastern neighbourhoods of Jerusalem, neighbourhoods which were ethnically cleansed of Jews by Jordanian & Palestinian forces in 1948, neighborhoods that were only separated from Jerusalem for 18.5 years during the 5,500 years of the cities existence, these Palestinian residents of Jerusalem were in fact given the chance to become citizens. 20% of them did including the family of noted Palestinian-Muslim journalist Khaled Abu Tomech. Those who rejected Israeli citizenship can still apply to this very day. In fact since the collapse of the peace process, applications amongst Palestinian residents of jerusalem have gone up by 300%.
2
The archaeological project is beyond criticism. Political conclusion from it are beyond consideration. Any suggestion archeology has political relevance to what we should do today is repulsive. Some guys lived in a place 3,000 years ago. What relevance for today? Absolutely none. Human history is a story of migration and displacement. You know who lived there before the David and the ancient Hebrews? Some other guys. They had a palace and a temple, too. Does the fact that they were there 'first' have any relevance? No.
Further, if we don't believe the biblical narrative, the past is irrelevant to current political decision. If we do, we have to take all of it. Not only were the ancient Hebrews a long-suffering group of tribes who survived persecution, they were also genocidal invaders in Canaan and elsewhere (see Exodus, Deuteronomy, Numbers). Viewed through today's moral lens, these atrocities vitiate any claim to Jerusalem based on ancient history. Indeed, the Jews owe the Canaanites a profuse apology.
Israelis do have an iron-clad, legitimate claim to Israel: they've lived there continuously for long enough to call it home, three generations at least. No one should be evicted from their home. The same goes for the Palestinians. That anyone would tolerate for a moment an argument that some archaeological find means families should be thrown out of their homes is a sign that we're all still barbarians, each of us capable of the worst atrocities known to man.
18
To study archeology is one thing. To use is to justify taking control of the land away from the people who have been living there is something else.
Think how much credibility we would give to Native Americans who claim that they want Manhattan back, after all this was their native home and sacred site not just thousand of years ago, but less than 400 years ago?
All I can do as an ordinary human being, one who shares the same basic genome with my fellow members of the only race, the human, is write that at this stage in life there is nothing more fascinating than reading how new scientific findings call out for re-examining much of what we think we know about human history.
I am particularly drawn to stories about this part of the world, stories that inevitably will conflict with one another, because I have had the good fortune first in Brighton and Rochester, New York to know very well large families in which one or more older member could trace back one or more Jewish Lines of Descent.
Then I came to Sweden where the counterpart families include Assyrians from the historic Nineveh region and Palestinians who grew up in Nablus and Jerusalem.
All these families may have forebears far back in time who lived in what is now Israel.
Imagine my surprise and fascination when I learned that the Kaddish is written and spoken in Aramaic, the language for which the Assyrian my friends speak is perhaps to be seen as a dialect. The Assyrians were conquerors too!
I know that satisfactory political solutions will most likely never be found for this region, maybe even for my USA, bu reading about this region, even in Nicole Krauss' "Forest Dark" drawing on the infinite interplay of all who once lived "there" is an endless pleasure.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Citizen US SE
What happens when the digs go even deeper and the world of people conquered before then are discovered? What claims will they have on the land?
1
It is an indisuptable fact that the original inhabitants of this land were polytheists. Given the long history of religious violence involving monotheists, we have to wonder if monotheism truly represents an advance.
Tribalism is getting is nowhere.
We need more leaders who unite us rather than divide us.
2
Well, maybe we can return to indigenous people in Mexico and Peru the territory that was the Inca and Aztec capital of empire. They can establish a new country there. Same principle. There's always DNA tests to prove who can claim descent.
Did Bari follow recent actions by Donald Trump and the response by Netanyahu? Does she expect archeology to "trump" nationalist expansion by Israel? Sadly, for the religious right in Israel, she is building the case for further annexations, not for cooperation.
1
If any nation has a claim, it would be Jordan, and as far as I know, they are not asking for it back. Clearly the historic significance would be enough for eminent domain, which seems to be legal everywhere in the world except for Israel (in the view of some) Could tourists safely visit the City of David (which was in a militarized no-man's-land prior to 1967) before Israeli juridiction? No, neither could they visit the Western Wall without fear of potshots. Unless and until the local Arabs seek peace, it does not make sense to create another Gaza in East Jerusalem.
1
Do you know who else used archeology as a political means to assert rights and privileges over others?
Bari Weiss should be ashamed of herself. Presumably she didn't root for Harrison Ford in "Raiders of the Lost Ark," a fictional story based loosely on the actions of the bad guys.
I'm sure the Micmaq' of eastern Maine and Atlantic Canada had shared spiritual beliefs.
Does that mean that some party claiming to espouse those beliefs 400 years later gets eastern Maine?
The dispute between Jews and Palestinians has little to do with facts. It is about religious and about claims to land that has changed hands hundreds of times over thousands of years. There are too many on all sides who actually do not acknowledge the rights of others as human beings, let along legal claims to territory. This won't change any time soon.
This tiny slice of the earth that is Jerusalem is tragically obsessed with the distant past. Both sides need to stop and let go and awaken to the present, this day. Let go. Think of the children and find a workable solution. Unshackle yourselves from ancient history or there will never be peace.
If a Jewish historical presence in the entirety of Jerusalem is indicative of a right of possession, is the absence of a such a presence in coastal regions like Tel Aviv (Jaffa) and Haifa indicative of a Palestinian right of possession?
Historically (c 980 BCE) The Kingdom of David was inland, and the Phoenicians inhabited the northern coast, but with conquests pushing the borders this way and that.
And when constructing a right of possession from the historical or archaeological record, does one take into account the minimal extent of Israel (or Phoenicia), or the maximal? Does one weigh by the number of years a particular city inhabited by a given group?
And what of the poor Canaanites, slaughtered by the Israelites (Deut. 7.1-2; 20.16-18). Perhaps some DNA analysis of old bones will finally give their remaining descendants a fair share of the Holy Land.
Jerusalem belongs to Israel because it has military superiority over the territory and its rivals, plain and simple. Thus, spending millions on digging giant holes to find evidence that fits a particular folk narrative in order to justify Israel's claim over it seems very unnecessary.
Sooner or later demographics predominates areas and it seems the settlers are few in numbers and the Palestinian presence abundant. When in Israel conversations mention facts that bobs and weaves timelessly and one is never sure if the chat was about today or 5000 years ago. The dribble of artifacts will always be disputed in Jerusalem because something will always be below (and therefore not first or original) as shrine built on shrine.
The problem is that the ancient Temple was believed built on the site what we see now as Al-Aqsa Mosque the third most important mosque for Islam. The underground construction will endanger the mosque itself.
@Vega, the City of David excavations are not under the Al-Aqsa Mosque, so don't worry.
1
"Jerusalem was a divided city after Israel’s 1948 war for independence. The West was Israeli. The East was a Jordanian-ruled Palestinian city."
This characterization is misleading.
I walked the land extensively immediately after the 67 war. The inhabitants of East Jerusalem presented themselves as Arabs.
Never ever as 'Palestinians'.
That has changed. They now consider themselves as Palestinians.
It looks genuine and should be respected.
I wonder why the author found it necessary to revise the past.
7
So what does this article teach us? Namely that Western religion (Judaism, Islam, and Christianity) when mixed with nationalism and statehood leads to tribalism and violence in the name of G-D, Allah, and Jesus. Who benefits from these ridiculous religious land claims and honestly why do they matter in 2019? Truly distressing to see people spending their limited time on Earth fighting over religious real estate and for what purpose? To show that one religion is better than the other and to feel connected to a place where David, Jesus or Mohammed ascended into the sky? The solution is separation of religion and state, an acceptance of all, and the removal of artificial borders based on religious dogma. Israel needs to return to the secular principles of its foundation and everyone needs to let go of their religious mandates driving shameful fanaticism.
1
Faith means not needing evidence, and believing anyway.
No amount of archaeological discovery will ever change any minds regarding the nature of disparate, cultural origins.
Jews have no more a right to this land than their Abrahamic kin, and any argument to the contrary requires an historical burden of proof which cannot conceivably be met.
I suppose finding a connection would make a difference - to blood and soil nationalists who believes people born in a land where their ancestors have lived for hundreds can be expelled because they are the wrong race.
Whatever makes this author think that something the ended ~2,000 years ago gives Israel the right to move in and take away the place others have lived for those last ~2,000 years?
Ancients took it from someone else ~3,000 years ago, and lost it again ~2,000 years ago. That does not give someone else some right to take it today.
Interesting that Ms. Weiss delves into this story, as she recently wrote about her upsetting experience by the Western Wall/Kotel with the Women of the Wall liberal group. The wall and the mount above it are precisely places most Palestinians (and other Muslims, even some Palestinian Christians, too) deny have any Jewish connection. Like she quotes from interviewees, Palestinians prefer to say and believe the Jews are lying in order to cement their sole claim to eastern Jerusalem. It won't work and cannot be respected.
Archaeological digs thruout Israel, and Jerusalem, have been ongoing for 70+ years, and at least 30-40 years around the holy city. It won't stop now, though damage caused should be repaired and paid by the foundation. If a Palestinian refuses to sell, that is their privilege, as a legal resident of this united city. What Bari Weiss doesn't mention is the digging, and destruction and disposal of findings, under the Temple Mount/mosques by the Waqf, which is done illegally, and which allegedly contains the remains of both Temples. By sifting through the dump sites, which is only a portion of what is dug up by the Waqf, archaeologists have found priceless objects attesting to Jewish life, again all of which is considered fake by the Palestinians. Regardless of their own ancestors admitting that their holy mosques were built there, precisely, because the ancient Jews had built their Temples on this sacred plateau.
The digs won't change any politics.
3
This article presents a very complex situation quite well.
1
Why wasn’t Palestine made into a state in 1948 like Israel was? Because they didn’t want to be one. The Arab armies decided on war. Jordan invaded Jerusalem, removed all the Jews from the Jewish Quarter, and desecrated Jewish holy sites. Since the West Bank was under Arab control from 1948 to 1967, why wasn’t it made into the State of Palestine? Because they didn’t want it to be.
In 1967, the Arab armies attacked again, and lost. Israel’s military gains from a defensive war are hers to decide what to do with. The only reason there is no ‘international’ acceptance of Israel’s right to posess land achieved in a defensive war is Arab oil.
If Palestinian Arabs want any form of self determination, they need to stop warring on Israel and make peace, a real peace. For one thing, warring on Israel for over 70 years has been a total failure. For another, it has only brought Palestinians grief. It is time for everyday Palestinians to throw off their corrupt leadership and seek a realistic path forward.
8
What lies under the ground belongs to the owners of the surface. The State of Palestine has legal rights to its water, gas, oil, and mineral resources. The Palestinians have the right to decide when and how those resources are used. In the case of archeological discoveries, we must rely on the Palestinians to work with the international community. But explorations are still 100% under their control.
17
Greg-What State of Palestine?
Never was or is such an entity.
And cooperation? First and Second Temple findings[year 900 BC-70 CE] on the Temple Mount, for example, have been systematically demolished by the Waqf.
7
Palestine is not a state, and under the Oslo Accords between israel and the Palestinian Authority, cosigned by president Clinton, all of those "legal rights" you discuss are clearly and concisely explained and agreed upon. But you, like the Palestinians, are throwing this agreement and others to into the wind when they do not suit you or them. Therein lies the problem with the "peace Process". Israel is still waiting for the Palestinians to uphold the first three principles of the Oslo Accords: 1. Recognise israel as a legitimate State, 2. use the press, schools and programming to promote peaceful coexistence, and 3. Disarm all terror groups including Hamas and disavowing armed resistance. Although these principles may be expounded in English, in Arabic its a whole other story.
8
Palestinians (i.e., Arabs who live in the West Ban areas), don't want it explored. Too much Jewish history. You'd never get any archeological finds if they were in charge.
Additionally, according to your logic - The Jordanians occupied the land. Was it OK then to ethnically cleanse it of the Jews who lived there? Destroy 53 synagogues. Destroy the Jewish Quarter of the Old City because that's what Jordan wanted? Now, Israel has won it back. Should it be now Israel's to decide? And if not, why not? And if the "Palestinians" want a voice and a decision, they should vote! They can, you know.
6
Whether or not the site is excavated in the future (conspiracy theories on the Palestinian side are certainly a worry too), excavations should not be underway now. Not only does it make a mockery of any debates about sovereignty, as an archaeologist, I can also attest that tunneling and excavating UNDER houses is immensely bad practice-- irresponsible and unlikely to give complete information, not to mention destructive and cruel.
I read all the reports about these excavations and can also attest that interpretation is often shaped by religious bias and over-eagerness to link material to specific biblical figures. The archaeologists who work there are often not neutral-- take Eilat Mazar, whose family has long times to Christian fundamentalists in the US, who have poured money into excavations (the Armstrong International Cultural Foundation in Edmond, Okalahoma, part of the Philadelphia Worldwide Church of God).
19
Good piece. Frankly, I think Israel ought to continue to excavate the site in the interests of history and archeology. Both Jews and Arabs hold David in esteem so both peoples ought to want to see this 3,000 year-old site come back to life. I'm sure that the usual partisans will weigh in with pinched and bitter objections why this constitutes a death knell to the peace process. But it doesn't. And sometimes, society has a bigger claim on a piece of land than an individual. Not always but in some cases - this is one of them.
36
If the site could be excavated as an archeological site of interest to all of us -- with as many people as possible encouraged to leave, and no new residents permitted to move in. As if it were an archeological site of interest to all of us...
But sadly, while there is apparently some real archeological work going on, there is also the idea that if it was David's city, it should be re-occupied by Jews as a meaningful place for them in particular to live. It's too bad the site couldn't have been claimed by the archeologists long ago: they could have kept everyone out, except for carefully guided tours, and the site could have been excavated properly and maybe carefully reconstructed for public viewing. A fair solution. But that doesn't seem to be in the cards at this point.
13
I think almost everyone would agree that a scientific excavation of the site would be a good thing and interesting to all the people who care about the history of Jerusalem .
But the fact that Jews may have lived here over 2000 years ago doesn't give modern day Jews the right to claim the land now. If you believe it does then would the ancestors of the people who lived here and conquered by the Jews have an even stronger claim?
2
And how about Palestinian society? Ready to champion its claims?
I remember once many years ago standing at a very busy street corner in Philadelphia in the company of a very learned Rabbi and posing him some question about Jerusalem.
To which he replied: “That’s an excellent question Stanton, but before answering it, I would like to get safely across this street.”
His answer today would definitely be the same.
2
... some arcane question ....
2
This article is fascinating, but it wallows in a number of nationalist fantasies that are obviously, unequivocally fantasies. There is simply no credible argument that modern Jews, distantly descended from an ancient people, have any claim to the land in which their religion originated. If that were the case, why aren't all of the world's two billion Christians claiming that they have a right to the Middle East as their own "ancestral home"? The point that Ms. Weiss refuses to engage is that the modern Jews who revere this piece of land as their "ancestral homeland" have been taught to think this way by religious and nationalist indoctrination. The Judaism of today, as the article points out, has virtually no relationship to the Judaism of ancient Israel. The European Jews of today are the product of 2000 years of ethnic mixing, migration, cultural and religious evolution - which is exactly what you would expect after 2000 years. It may be absolutely true that this temple was the origin point of Judaism, but does that fact trump the lives of the people who have lived on that land for centuries? Even if there was a direct line between modern Jews and ancient Jews, why would it matter? 2000 years is just too long; it extinguishes any reasonable claim. Simply because one group of people desperately wants another group of people's land doesn't mean that they have a "right" to it. If they did, where would it end?
62
First of all that piece of land was "occupied" legally by Jews until they were driven out in the 1948 war and then the land was truly occupied by Jordan. The "ancestral claims" are of historical interest only! The true claims are fully legal by decree of the UN in 1947 and forfeited by the Jordanian aggression in 1967. This land is no less "occupied" by Palestinians than Gush Etzion is by Jews. But that doesn't seem to bother you. The religious link gives Jews gasoline and passion but it has never been claimed to give legal rights. Those come from international law and morality - terms that have been warped in the Israel hater's lexicon.
2
The science is fascinating. This isn't the first example, nor will it be the last, of scientific findings being advanced, denied or suppressed in order to forward political views.
As to the whole fiasco of the Palestinian - Israeli conflict, it cannot be solved at the present time. We need to punt for another generation, maybe two. The two sides cannot satisfy the others' core needs. Neither side can give what the other side is seeking. Neither side can compromise past the point where their national, ethnic or religious existence becomes at risk.
7
I'm never sure whether Jews who insist that Jerusalem belongs exclusively to them believe it because they believe there is a religious basis of the belief that makes it true, or whether they believe it just because it was once a possession of ancient Jews, whether or not the belief has a religious basis. And although my Mother insisted that I am the great-grandson of a Jew, I just cannot comprehend how Jews believe that other religious believers with a religious history in Jerusalem can be expected to accept their exclusive claim to it without some conflict in views. That mere fact is always going to cause some political and cultural contention over the use and extent of the claim.
30
See my point above. Israel go the right to Jerusalem when the arabs tried to murder every Jew living there in 1947 and failed. They tried again in 1967 and once again lost. They had illegally "occupied" the west bank and east Jerusalem between those wars but were driven out during the 1967 war. That war had NEVER had the borders negotiated and settled since. That is why it is "disputed" terrtory - not "occupied" territory. There was no "country" there before 1947 to occupy. It was a region of the British mandate which carved out many middle eastern states between the world wars. The land over this archeology site is now "occupied" by arabs that have no LEGAL right to that territory yet. But nobody really cares about that when you can twist history to paint Jews as land grabbers.
3
No one is saying that Jerusalem belongs exclusively to Jews. They are saying that anyone should have the right to buy property on the market, at a price agreed between buyer and seller.
That's the way it works in open societies. Is this commenter saying that there should be covenants forbidding people of one race or religion buying in some areas? We used to have that in the U.S., and most liberals thought they were a bad idea. Such covenants are now forbidden by Supreme Court decision and the Open Housing Act.
1
The reason why East Jerusalem Arabs can't vote is because they refuse to become citizens. They can become citizens. But they do want to. Thus, they don't have a vote. Just like I can't vote in Canada, France, Jordan, Brazil, etc., etc., etc. I'm surprised Ms. Weiss doesn't clarify this. Additionally, I toured the City of David a few months go. No matter who is giving money towards the excavations of this site, the tour leader, who was hired by the City of David, only spoke of the work and archeological findings and history. No politics came into it.
45
In this part of the world, history is politics.
"they refuse to become citizens". That would mean citizens of Israel, presumably. But that's the whole point, isn't it? Israel says they are living in Israel, because it has taken possession of the territory. But the Palestinian residents (and most of the rest of the world) don't recognize it as legally part of Israel. If they agreed to become Israeli citizens, they would be agreeing to the seizure of their territory as part of Israel --a seizure not recognized as legal by most of the world, because of accepted principles of international law.
1
Replying to myself and others who read this. The third sentence should be "But they don't want to." So sorry for my typo.
1
The UN divided the land between Israel and Transjordan. As far as I know that would indicate that East Jerusalem is not in Israel. There are religious Jews making all kinds of claims just as there are Palestinian extremists making all kind of claims. The US view should be based on UN actions and any agreements between the Israelis and Palestinians. What may or may not have happened 2,600 years ago based on the interpretation of archeologists does not seem that relevant with regard to claims on land.
72
Transjordan was resolved as Arab land without UN intervention. By contrast the Palestine problem was transferred from Britain to the UN. The Balfour Declaration promised the Jews a national home in Palestine. This was widely understood as a Jewish state. During the Mandate period however the boundaries were pushed west, parts hacked off and added to Syria etc, and after the UN took over, what was left was divided between Arabs and Jews, with Jews generally being disadvantaged. This still wasn't enough for the Arabs however who immediately declared war on the Jews upon Israel formally achieving nationhood. Seems to me that history is really quite relevant to the question.
3
@ Bob, sorry but your statement that "the UN divided the land between Israel and Transjordan" is not correct. If you are referring to the UN Partition Plan of 1947, that divided the territory known at that time as the British Mandate for Palestine into a Jewish State and an Arab State. Jerusalem was not allocated to either state, it was supposed to be an "international city". Despite the fact that Jerusalem was THE holiest city in Judaism for 3000 years, and that 2/3's of its population was Jewish, the Jewish community of Palestine accepted the UN Partition Plan. The Arab community of Palestine, backed by the surrounding Arab states, rejected this plan, and launched a war to destroy the Jews and "drive them into the sea". While the Arabs eventually lost the war they started, Jordan did succeed in seizing the eastern parts of Jerusalem and the Old City, and expelled every Jew living there, demolished the Jewish quarter in the Old City, and prohibited Jews for worshiping at their holy sites in the Old City. Israel recaptured this territory in 1967, after counter-attacking in response to Jordanian attacks on west Jerusalem.
It is truly amazing to me that the NY Times can write a detailed article on Jerusalem without providing the historical background and context.
4
You are correct in asserting that the UN had made proposals regarding Jerusalem, however, you are way off base as to the details. In 1947, the UN promulgated a Partition Plan dividing the territories between two States, with the Holy City of Jerusalem under International auspices. That plan was accepted by the Jews but rejected in its entirety by the Arabs who thereafter attacked the fledgling State of Israel but lost. Jordanian troops overran and subsequently controlled the eastern portion of the city including the old city and the Holy basin and armistice lines were established but by its very language were not to be construed as a recognized international border. Jewish resident of the Jewish Quarter of the Old City were summarily expelled and Jewish Holy sites desecrated and destroyed. From 1948 until 1967, all Jews were denied access to the Western Wall, the holiest Jewish site. In 1967, the Arabs again attacked and once again lost and territories lost in 1948 and more were regained in 1967. The UN justly declared that Israel is entitled to secure and defensible borders and it repatriated the entire Sinai to Egypt and a cold but enduring peace has existed for the last 40 years. However, it also relinquished Gaza to the Palestinians and we now have a murderous terrorist entity controlling the territory with an avowed wish to exterminate its Jewish neighbors
4
I spent the summer of 1978 in at Hebrew University in Jerusalem studying, among other things, archeology. We had many field trips to various sites including the City of David. The City of David was purely an archeological site then, weeks before the Camp David accords took place. Menachem Begin had only just succeeded Yitzhak Rabin as Prime Minister. Things were tense, very tense but peace was, at least, a hope. Excavations were for advancement of knowledge, not for political advantages. Unfortunately in the intervening years the so-called leaders of Palestinians and Israelis have both engaged in endless 'got ya' warfare that endangers any hope. The Palestinians have suffered enormously, but the Israelis are in constant danger. As the saying goes: two wrongs don't make a right. Neither wants peace, despite the rhetoric. This is a tragedy of incalculable proportions.
22
There are many Roman ruins spread all over Europe, all the way from England to Turkey. I hope the modern Romans will not try to redraw international boundaries based on the logic of this article.
118
I fail to follow. Who are the modern Romans? Italians, Spaniards, French, Romanians? History forms the soul of nations. When that core is under attack, as it clearly is by the Temple deniers that include the "international community", as exemplified by UNESCO, there is no chance for peace. That can only begin to happen when people show mutual respect.
50
And besides, "What have the Romans ever done for us?"
Actually, Rome (Italy) has as much claim to Jerusalem as anyone else according to Bari Weiss's "logic."
Mutual respect! There you are, it goes both ways, not only the Jewish. Gentrification is a cunning way to take over a place, and by doing it, circumventing the resolutions on the matter.
As for Romans, evidently you are not good at sarcasm; Lutetia, Brittannia, Hispania and Romania were provinces, not the metropolis. The modern Romans should be the denizens of Rome, who else?