I own guns, shoot guns and believe gun deaths are out of control in this country (compare us the rest of the developed world and we act like a third world country at civil war). Owning a gun does not keep me safe from mass shootings, road rage or other random crime or gun related accidents.
I believe we can fix the problem if we only had leaders with courage to make the right decisions. How the hell did the ATF allow the manufacture and sale of bump stocks, high capacity magazines or any other device that turns a gun into an all out rapid fire killing machine. Our leaders are now supporting "Common Sense Gun Regulation to limit rapid fire gun modifications." Obviously, it's not common sense for the congress. If you want to shoot a machine gun, there are plenty of gun ranges where you can rent one.
The other item in this article is the "religious church attendees" backing Trump. Did they miss the message that Jesus spelled out in the bible? Obviously, they went for the candidate with the lowest moral character and least qualified to represent the country. I believe this is why religion is on the decline -- too much hypocrisy.
I believe we can fix the problem if we only had leaders with courage to make the right decisions. How the hell did the ATF allow the manufacture and sale of bump stocks, high capacity magazines or any other device that turns a gun into an all out rapid fire killing machine. Our leaders are now supporting "Common Sense Gun Regulation to limit rapid fire gun modifications." Obviously, it's not common sense for the congress. If you want to shoot a machine gun, there are plenty of gun ranges where you can rent one.
The other item in this article is the "religious church attendees" backing Trump. Did they miss the message that Jesus spelled out in the bible? Obviously, they went for the candidate with the lowest moral character and least qualified to represent the country. I believe this is why religion is on the decline -- too much hypocrisy.
This is ok info. but divides us into pots again! Would the NYT's look into this article (by a very conservative newsletter) and verify the data? This is a powerful article about why we should unite around comprehensive Gun Safety Regulation irregardless of black, white, blue, or red: https://www.deseretnews.com/top/3427/0/The-10-states-with-the-most-restr... Contact the leaders that the NYTs highlighted that have received the biggest NRA $$$ donations today. Pray this Sunday, that they will take action to outlaw military weapons in the hands of civilians that can be used as the newest weapons of mass destruction. End our fascination with national Russian Roulette.
You have to wonder what they're all so afraid of. Liberals aren't afraid of their gun toting neighbors but those same people seem petrified of their disarmed countrymen. Here's when you know your ideology is bankrupt. When you have to weaponize every encounter you have in your everyday life in order to feel secure. The right comes at you armed to the teeth while the left is content to conquer you with ideas.
Allowing anybody and everybody to purchase semi-automatic rifles sounds like a very "pro-life" position. NOT!!!!
Vote all hypocrites out of the office!
Vote all hypocrites out of the office!
It is "genetic" and no argumentare going to change peoples minds about owning or not owning a gun. The ONLY way is to force elected officials to "do the right thing" and make laws that both they and their constituents hate--not unlike the many laws we have already.
We have heard all the arguments on both sides but is life , liberty and the pursuit of happiness truly means something, then the government must act for the good of the nation. Pressure must be brought to bear on EACH GOP congressmember to get in line by whatever means necessary. Each day a voting record,an extramarital affair, a broken law, these" JOHNS" need to be made to see the light.
The nation MUST be more than the individual congressional voices. The president is irrelavant. If that is not the case, than let us just have 50 states separate and be done with it so those who wants laws can have them.
We have heard all the arguments on both sides but is life , liberty and the pursuit of happiness truly means something, then the government must act for the good of the nation. Pressure must be brought to bear on EACH GOP congressmember to get in line by whatever means necessary. Each day a voting record,an extramarital affair, a broken law, these" JOHNS" need to be made to see the light.
The nation MUST be more than the individual congressional voices. The president is irrelavant. If that is not the case, than let us just have 50 states separate and be done with it so those who wants laws can have them.
Interesting that atheism is the strongest predictor of an anti-Trump vote. Not really surprising, as atheists are atheists because they aren't fooled by BS.
If Liberals had a wish , what would it be about guns?
I had a discussion today with my barber about the massacre in Las Vegas. She is a middle-aged lady, formerly of New Hampshire and a self-admitted conservative republican gun owner. I asked her if there was anything that could make her give up her guns. She said no- that she needed them for protection against burglaries and also to ensure that what Hitler did in Germany could never happen here. I asked her if the rule of law that we have here wouldn't be protection enough against government oppression. She didn't know what that meant but in her opinion, there's a worldwide democratic shadow government who's mission it is to convert us to socialism, and she needs to defend herself against "them". I asked if it might not be a bad trade to give up ones' guns in exchange for saving the lives of 33,000 Americans that are killed annually. She said she's keeping her guns. I have never, in my life felt so depressed and disheartened. I realize I live in Florida. But we are doomed.
What part of "well-regulated" and "militia" don't the gun fetishists of the right get?
As well, banning 'bump stocks' is a big pile of *nothing* and another attempt by complicit (largely) Republican NRA servants to grandstand and act as if they're doing something about all these gun deaths that stain them.
We know better.
Ultimately, to own a gun is to harbor a desire to use one.
As well, banning 'bump stocks' is a big pile of *nothing* and another attempt by complicit (largely) Republican NRA servants to grandstand and act as if they're doing something about all these gun deaths that stain them.
We know better.
Ultimately, to own a gun is to harbor a desire to use one.
Anyone who can't interact with society on a day-to-day basis without carrying a gun needs to do us all a favor and stay home.
As an Australian who moved to NYC some 14yrs ago I can confidentially say we, meaning the 14 million adult Australians, don't get it. What is it with America and gun ownership. None of us in Australia (or maybe a few farmers who get special permission for rodent control) own guns. We don't have anxiety attacks. We don't think we need them to ensure a Government (who by the way has far more sophisticated weapons than guns) isn't going to remove our rights (though the irony is Trump is coming close and he is pro NRA). We don't need them to repel the zombie invasion that will inevitably come. We don't need them to repel home invaders. We just don't need them. Nor do we miss them. Jim Jeffries summed it up best https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n71CSp8NJlc
We have guns. We voted for Clinton. This is a ridiculous post. For one thing, no one knows we have guns, because we got them before they had to be registered.
What part of "well-regulated" and "militia" don't the gun fetishists of the right get?
As well, banning 'bump stocks' is a big pile of *nothing* and another attempt by complicit (largely) Republican NRA servants to grandstand and act as if they're doing something about all these gun deaths that stain them.
We know better.
Ultimately, to own a gun is to harbor a desire to use one.
As well, banning 'bump stocks' is a big pile of *nothing* and another attempt by complicit (largely) Republican NRA servants to grandstand and act as if they're doing something about all these gun deaths that stain them.
We know better.
Ultimately, to own a gun is to harbor a desire to use one.
1100 people shot dead in mass shootings in 1000 days; Almost 3 out of every 4 days there is a mass shooting (4+ people shot) in the US. The shooters are almost always men. Men won't vote for a women President, not in the great USA.
I hope everyone watches the PM of Australian talk about the shootings in Las Vegas. The people in Australia just turned in 55,000 more guns since Vegas.
Australia , tough Aussie have changed the laws to make Australia safe. WTH is wrong with Americans!
I hope everyone watches the PM of Australian talk about the shootings in Las Vegas. The people in Australia just turned in 55,000 more guns since Vegas.
Australia , tough Aussie have changed the laws to make Australia safe. WTH is wrong with Americans!
I am a democrat, I have a hand gun and a shot gun which I use mainly for protection when I go fishing. What I don't understand is why anyone would need a military style weapon, there only purpose is to kill other people. At a minimum every buyer shoudl pass somekind of uptitude test then again so should the police
Well, based on the popular vote, there are more non-owners than owners. Since we're the majority, it's only gerrymandering and the electoral college (brought to you by old white male slaveholders) that keep the USA from having appropriate gun control.
The "good" news is that a rabid gun owner is more like to kill himself or a friend or family member than to kill some other kind of person.
I don't specifically ask people what they think about guns.
However, if I know someone is a rabid gun owner, I avoid that person like the plague.
I consider rabid gun ownership to be a mental defect.
I don't specifically ask people what they think about guns.
However, if I know someone is a rabid gun owner, I avoid that person like the plague.
I consider rabid gun ownership to be a mental defect.
You've provided lot of impressive statistics. Yo've sliced and diced the election results in ways that only a computer can do. Thank You.
However, after cutting thru all the subtleties; this is the bottom line:
Barely ONE THIRD of the country voted for Donald Trump.
I do not support this minority president and hope he does not damage our country too much before his departure. As far as his supporters; Many of you have been duped, and I hope you can recover.
However, after cutting thru all the subtleties; this is the bottom line:
Barely ONE THIRD of the country voted for Donald Trump.
I do not support this minority president and hope he does not damage our country too much before his departure. As far as his supporters; Many of you have been duped, and I hope you can recover.
All of my family members are gun owners in gun owning house holds. Quite a few guns. We all voted for HRC gladly.
Gun rights were enshrined in our constitution because our founders knew that governments are responsible for the OVERWHELMING majority of citizen murder than any other cause. This isn't up for debate, this is simply FACT.
As we increase our population year over year we will continue to see an increase in the number of people who for what ever reason are mentally disturbed. This unfortunate reality is part of having this many humans on the planet.
So what can we do about it? Well as a society must must realize that targets of opportunity for mass causality exists and we must take steps to be more proactive in securing those areas. If the president of the US was in that crowd you better believe that nothing like what happened in Las Vegas could of happened. I am not saying we need that level of protection but what I am saying is that we must do more take seriously the threat that these targets of opportunity pose to the average citizen.
For the longest time we treated the security in our schools as if the contents within the school had the value of scrap metal. Our banks and politicians enjoyed MUCH greater security and by extension value than the most precious of our citizens, our children! This kind of violence isn't new. Take the Bath School disaster in 1927 where Andrew Kehoe killed 38 children and 6 adults with explosives.
Let's have adult conversations about securing our society and not knee jerk reactions that at the end of the day solve nothing.
As we increase our population year over year we will continue to see an increase in the number of people who for what ever reason are mentally disturbed. This unfortunate reality is part of having this many humans on the planet.
So what can we do about it? Well as a society must must realize that targets of opportunity for mass causality exists and we must take steps to be more proactive in securing those areas. If the president of the US was in that crowd you better believe that nothing like what happened in Las Vegas could of happened. I am not saying we need that level of protection but what I am saying is that we must do more take seriously the threat that these targets of opportunity pose to the average citizen.
For the longest time we treated the security in our schools as if the contents within the school had the value of scrap metal. Our banks and politicians enjoyed MUCH greater security and by extension value than the most precious of our citizens, our children! This kind of violence isn't new. Take the Bath School disaster in 1927 where Andrew Kehoe killed 38 children and 6 adults with explosives.
Let's have adult conversations about securing our society and not knee jerk reactions that at the end of the day solve nothing.
GUNS, you want to talk guns.
How about your children playing video games where they kill by the thousands, for entertainment, let us start there. Who bought them those expensive toys and programs ?
We already know, you did.
To entertain your child you brought Super Mario into your home, and he was armed.
Each and every parent that allows their child, under 16 years of age, to play these vicious games, is responsible for this culture of death and destruction.
So if you want to reduce gun violence - start there.
But the money is there and you will not see this happening.
So let us look at the root cause of the gun violence. As we saw in Europe and elsewhere you don't need a gun to kill, just a warped sense of right. Parents need to be aware of what their children are playing with, associating with etc...It starts at home, as it always did.
How about your children playing video games where they kill by the thousands, for entertainment, let us start there. Who bought them those expensive toys and programs ?
We already know, you did.
To entertain your child you brought Super Mario into your home, and he was armed.
Each and every parent that allows their child, under 16 years of age, to play these vicious games, is responsible for this culture of death and destruction.
So if you want to reduce gun violence - start there.
But the money is there and you will not see this happening.
So let us look at the root cause of the gun violence. As we saw in Europe and elsewhere you don't need a gun to kill, just a warped sense of right. Parents need to be aware of what their children are playing with, associating with etc...It starts at home, as it always did.
Please don't forget the primary reason for guns in a modern culture: male fear of sexual inadequacy. To exert force at a distance; to hold a hard cylindrical weapon in your hand; to believe that you can compel others to do your will -- these are desires in our genes that civilized persons have learned to sublimate but not all of us. There are many paths to the remedy but they all require the recognition and examination of this fear and the courage to reject it.
An amazing graphic.
However, I don't think you meant to say it shows a "consistent geographic split". It shows the opposite: that, across the USA, the political leanings of people living next door to each other, anywhere and everywhere, can be predicted with much better than random results based on this one household characteristic.
Wow!
However, I don't think you meant to say it shows a "consistent geographic split". It shows the opposite: that, across the USA, the political leanings of people living next door to each other, anywhere and everywhere, can be predicted with much better than random results based on this one household characteristic.
Wow!
Another interesting poll would have been how those who committed crimes using firearms voted or would have voted.
We are now dealing with a very different animal. This is no longer about gun owners' rights to own a gun to protect our homes and family. We are talking about a growing number of unpredictable crazed individuals with an arsenal of weapons of mass destruction that should never have been allowed to get into their hands.
When I have to worry about sending my 2nd grader to school, my mother to her prayer group or my teenager to an outdoor concert, it is time to do something.
When I have to worry about sending my 2nd grader to school, my mother to her prayer group or my teenager to an outdoor concert, it is time to do something.
I think putting the focus on 'guns' will kill the debate. There is an opening to ban devices that enable semi-automatic weapons to fire more like automatic ones, let's start there. As pointed out by Richard Parker in the Times today, banning bump stocks won't solve much as long as legal military-style weapons are sold already 95% ready for full auto. We need to make sure 3D printing companies like Shapeways, Materialize etc. don't deliver metal precisely printed parts that convert semi into full-auto (either by voluntary agreement or outlawed), ban books and tutorials etc. It's not much, but a start.
These charts are fake news. i like many other people who own guns voted for Clinton.
1
Please tell me you didn't say "fake news." What you mean is that you don't believe the representation is accurate in correlating gun ownership and voting. Data can be wrong because of flaws in the methodology by which it was gathered. "Fake news" means deliberately making stuff up. By calling this "fake news," you're saying that the people who put together this particular "Upshot" column just made up the numbers; that the numbers didn't come from actual polling; that the reporters and editors and statisticians are deliberately lying or fabricating information. But surely you mean that you dispute the accuracy of the information; surely you aren't really saying that these people are publishing fraudulent information on purpose. "Fake" doesn't mean the same thing as "wrong," "erroneous," or "incorrect." It's possible to have made a good-faith effort to gather the facts but then to draw an incorrect conclusion. This is not the same thing as deliberately perpetrating a falsehood in disregard of the truth.
You're perfectly entitled to say "I don't trust that information. I think that's wrong," especially if you add "and here's why." You are not entitled to accuse these journalists of making stuff up and using data they know to be false.
That term "fake news" does nothing but undermine good faith discussion of issues. If you have different data or draw other conclusions, say so and explain why, as you did in your second sentence.
You're perfectly entitled to say "I don't trust that information. I think that's wrong," especially if you add "and here's why." You are not entitled to accuse these journalists of making stuff up and using data they know to be false.
That term "fake news" does nothing but undermine good faith discussion of issues. If you have different data or draw other conclusions, say so and explain why, as you did in your second sentence.
2
No, not fake news, I think that the charts are just showing the majority by state. A county level map would be more reveling as it would show the urban - rural divide, something that state level charts don't.
It looks like West Virginia and Vermont are the bellwethers... huh.
Isn't this great . . . It's like N Korea doesn't even exist. And yet we fret so much, it's the least of our worries.
Those who own guns can use them against us. Keeping us non gun owners in fear of them. Don't anger or upset the crazy gun toting neighbor or family down the street. You never know what they may do. Retaliation is very real in our society. It ultimately empowers many unstable and violent individuals to have control. Ask those who live in gang infested areas.
4
Fear is a strong marketing tool. The NRA uses it to make the uneducated and the uninformed believe the government is coming to take all of their guns away. Donald Trump used fear during the election to make Americans believe illegal immigrants and basically anybody who is non-white are going to take away America from white people.
Fear works in absence of knowledge.
Fear works in absence of knowledge.
2
I live in Alaska and own a gun. Lifelong Democrat. I swear Alaskans would be Democrats except that the average Alaskan owns seven guns and has been brainwashed by the NRA that the Democrats are coming to take them away. Nothing can convince them otherwise. Nothing.
5
I was a Democrat up until the election, am an independent now, and I too am a gun owner. About 40% of male Democrats, over 60% of Democrats in rural areas, and over 60% of Democrats who are veterans own firearms per a similar article from 538 a few years back. I'm male and am a veteran.
I quietly snickered at some of the stories during the run on guns and ammo when Obama was elected, as he said he wasn't coming for anyone's guns. Stores in northern CA were sending ammo to Alaska to be sold because of the shortage. But, he did support the assault weapons ban, just reinforcing people's beliefs on the stereotype about Democrats.
I quietly snickered at some of the stories during the run on guns and ammo when Obama was elected, as he said he wasn't coming for anyone's guns. Stores in northern CA were sending ammo to Alaska to be sold because of the shortage. But, he did support the assault weapons ban, just reinforcing people's beliefs on the stereotype about Democrats.
No surprise here at all. I don't a gun, never owned a gun and never will own a gun. I did not vote for Trump and won't vote for any current Republican for President with the possible exception of John Kasich.
Too many gun owners see a threat behind every bush. It's called paranoia.
Too many gun owners see a threat behind every bush. It's called paranoia.
3
What possible reason anybody can have to own an assault rifle, or semi-automatic weapon other then to kill? While a hand gun can possibly be used for self-defense, all other weapons have no purpose in anybody's home.
There is no well-regulated militia, and any kind of revolt can be put down by our military pretty easily.
Let's stop the madness and outlaw these weapons of mass distraction. Next time you are in the election booth remember the ones that allow 30,000 death from guns every year to continue. You and your family could save your lives.
There is no well-regulated militia, and any kind of revolt can be put down by our military pretty easily.
Let's stop the madness and outlaw these weapons of mass distraction. Next time you are in the election booth remember the ones that allow 30,000 death from guns every year to continue. You and your family could save your lives.
2
During the LA riots the police just fled, leaving everyone to fend for themselves. The Koreans called friends and family with family for help and they managed to protect their families, stores and homes. It required gun battles with looters and worse in some cases.
Any sort of authority took awhile to show after Andrew, and people had signs up stating 'you loot we shoot'.
I shot 'high power rifle' for awhile, where one uses military surplus, civilian equivalents or bolt action match rifles. Civilian versions of the M14 were most common when I use to do it, I understand AR-15s are very popular now. Some of the Marine rifle teams use to shoot with us, using their M16s.
AE-15s are very popular for informal target shooting, and some prefer them for home defense instead of a shotgun as recoil is much lower. Ruger has a very popular 'Mini-14', a magazine fed semi-auto, which was popular in the bush in Alaska as ammo was cheap, recoil low, and damage to meat minimal.
Any sort of authority took awhile to show after Andrew, and people had signs up stating 'you loot we shoot'.
I shot 'high power rifle' for awhile, where one uses military surplus, civilian equivalents or bolt action match rifles. Civilian versions of the M14 were most common when I use to do it, I understand AR-15s are very popular now. Some of the Marine rifle teams use to shoot with us, using their M16s.
AE-15s are very popular for informal target shooting, and some prefer them for home defense instead of a shotgun as recoil is much lower. Ruger has a very popular 'Mini-14', a magazine fed semi-auto, which was popular in the bush in Alaska as ammo was cheap, recoil low, and damage to meat minimal.
I'm a gun owner and I voted for Hillary Clinton. I do not place anxiety about gun control regulations above many other serious issues facing the country, and I would certainly not vote for a nincompoop and a person with narcissistic personality disorder (Trump) just because I have a gun.
I am often frustrated though by the deep divide between gun owners and those without, often urban liberals who have prejudicial views about guns and gun owners. Their anti-gun narrowness and prejudice is actually a lot like the narrow, prejudicial views about gays that these very same urban liberals criticize in southern conservatives.
I am often frustrated though by the deep divide between gun owners and those without, often urban liberals who have prejudicial views about guns and gun owners. Their anti-gun narrowness and prejudice is actually a lot like the narrow, prejudicial views about gays that these very same urban liberals criticize in southern conservatives.
1
Gun owners are also more likely to have a child die by firearm, more likely to commit suicide, more likely to have a friend, self, or family member shot. So it is no surprise that their vote would be destructive as well.
4
I suspect these figures might be skewed by the correlation between gun ownership and income, which determines in which kind of neighbourhood one is likely to live etc.
I've been a crime victim and I would never have a gun in my house. It's because I've been a crime victim that I realize that criminals can just as well take that gun and use it against you.
But if I lived in in an isolated rural area where the police were not going to show up ten seconds after I call, that math might add up differently in my mind.
I still cannot fathom how evangelists can stand behind a man with two ugly tabloid divorces involving public adultery scandals, who has five children by three different woman, who claims never to have apologized to God for anything, who even acts like he thinks God should be apologizing to HIM.
That makes no sense to me at all, but perhaps his racism and misogyny make up for his failings in faith and basic moral behavior in their eyes.
But if I lived in in an isolated rural area where the police were not going to show up ten seconds after I call, that math might add up differently in my mind.
I still cannot fathom how evangelists can stand behind a man with two ugly tabloid divorces involving public adultery scandals, who has five children by three different woman, who claims never to have apologized to God for anything, who even acts like he thinks God should be apologizing to HIM.
That makes no sense to me at all, but perhaps his racism and misogyny make up for his failings in faith and basic moral behavior in their eyes.
4
Sex and Guns in America sell by the sound of it. Let me go back to New York to the Age of Reason at seven and remember my Family and Other Strangers. There is a hole in the wall where my brother used a toy gun that comes to mind, a photo of a cousin walking the length of a river in Wyoming with a rifle over his shoulder. He is nine at the time when the cousins would go off in the Wilderness in the 50s.
No, there are divorces galore, but no guns in this Family of mine from New York all the way to London and Tuscany. True, my brother now a grey beard is slightly disappointed when French Customs ban some hunting rifles from the 19th century into the Country.
Next, can I think of anyone that I know, friends and families that would vote for Trump? Alaska, California, Connecticut, and the answer is No! Acquaintances in the rural region, the males all have a gun. The hunting accident that took place when Dick Cheney was on vacation comes to mind.
If a man asked me out on a date when I was nearly young, and he was in possession of a gun, I would have politely declined. Never Let Go of Our Country, and when We go to the Voting Polls, let there be a box in bold red giving The People the right to choose 'Gun Control'.
Congress may be out to lunch debating this issue over a serving of pheasant, let them get their act together and send a messenger to remind them that this intermission is over.
No, there are divorces galore, but no guns in this Family of mine from New York all the way to London and Tuscany. True, my brother now a grey beard is slightly disappointed when French Customs ban some hunting rifles from the 19th century into the Country.
Next, can I think of anyone that I know, friends and families that would vote for Trump? Alaska, California, Connecticut, and the answer is No! Acquaintances in the rural region, the males all have a gun. The hunting accident that took place when Dick Cheney was on vacation comes to mind.
If a man asked me out on a date when I was nearly young, and he was in possession of a gun, I would have politely declined. Never Let Go of Our Country, and when We go to the Voting Polls, let there be a box in bold red giving The People the right to choose 'Gun Control'.
Congress may be out to lunch debating this issue over a serving of pheasant, let them get their act together and send a messenger to remind them that this intermission is over.
1
When it is harder to vote, than it is to buy a gun, then something is wrong.
~ Even more so when you can use a gun license, instead of student ID TO vote
~ Even more so when you can use a gun license, instead of student ID TO vote
8
Surely this surprises no one. Just spend some time reading Face Book; those who cling fiercely to the 2nd amendment, who reject even debate on gun ownership, who sound hysterical at the mere notion of having their guns restricted -- they're the very same people who continue to back Trump.
They panic at the idea of life without their guns. They cannot allow that countries like Australia have found a solution.
They hate Hillary Clinton, and they hate liberals. And they seem to genuinely believe that Donald Trump is a "great" leader.
I despair.
They panic at the idea of life without their guns. They cannot allow that countries like Australia have found a solution.
They hate Hillary Clinton, and they hate liberals. And they seem to genuinely believe that Donald Trump is a "great" leader.
I despair.
3
I own guns. I was a union worker for 40 years. I voted for Hilary. The guns I own are a .22 caliber pump action rifle that was given to me when I was 8 years old. The other is my late fathers deer hunting rifle. I would gladly throw them on the fire if it would stop this insanity.
In my dreams there is no 2nd amendment or trump. The former will never happen because we are weak.
In my dreams there is no 2nd amendment or trump. The former will never happen because we are weak.
2
What about our right to life, public safety, pursuit of happiness, etc?
This is the United States, not Afghanistan. I don't want to live in a war zone.
This is the United States, not Afghanistan. I don't want to live in a war zone.
1
First of all I'm a Democrat as is every member of our family. I also loathe Donald Trump and did not vote for him. I am also a gun owner. I'm not a gun nut or gun enthusiast, or collector or another label. In high school I was a member of the rifle team and in the Army in 1966 I used high-powered semi-auto and full auto weapons. I have no problem with gun ownership but I deplore the so-called gun enthusiasts, shooters and peppers who seriously believe that they have the absolute right to own any type of weapon including full auto weapons and excessively long range high power sniper rifles. There is no legitimate reason to own any such weapon. I don't care if its your hobby. Normal people don't need sniper rifles, full auto weapons, night vision scopes and specially calibrated high power rifles that offer deadly accuracy at ranges beyond that of normal hunting. Its called being "nuts". Exactly what are you hunting at those distances? And what lurks in the dark?
As a competitor in small caliber pistol events I would like to have a suppressor (not a silencer) so I don't damage my hearing any further. But, Hillary and Company think having a suppressor will give rise to more shootings and no one will know where the shooter is located. Never mind the snap of a bullet going past your head, impacting near you or muzzle flash.
Let's come to our senses. Its time for prohibition of the sale or ownership of full auto weapons and kits and devices for conversion of weapons.
As a competitor in small caliber pistol events I would like to have a suppressor (not a silencer) so I don't damage my hearing any further. But, Hillary and Company think having a suppressor will give rise to more shootings and no one will know where the shooter is located. Never mind the snap of a bullet going past your head, impacting near you or muzzle flash.
Let's come to our senses. Its time for prohibition of the sale or ownership of full auto weapons and kits and devices for conversion of weapons.
4
How about cutting access to bullets? That should not interfere with 2nd amendment.
2
They voted for Trump because they were convinced (by NRA) that since Obama didn't take their guns away (as they said he would), Hillary would do it.
2
Gun ownership also reflects the fake superiority through fear and enables the choices like DJT.
It's ok for some people in certain locations to own a gun for defense purpose, most people need ZERO guns. Look at our cops, they're more armed then armies of may countries. Why to be afraid? unless you don't trust cops.
It's ok for some people in certain locations to own a gun for defense purpose, most people need ZERO guns. Look at our cops, they're more armed then armies of may countries. Why to be afraid? unless you don't trust cops.
This isn't helpful. It doesn't show the number of Americans who keep a gun for self-defense and hope to God they never have to use it. Nor does it show people who hunt or enjoy target practice. The millons of Americans in this group pose no threat to anyone.
The problem is that we have guys who sell bump stocks while talking about Thomas Jefferson. Even people who sell drugs to kids don't claim George Washington would approve of what they are doing.
The problem is that we have guys who sell bump stocks while talking about Thomas Jefferson. Even people who sell drugs to kids don't claim George Washington would approve of what they are doing.
1
Most people do not own guns. Most people support gun safety legislation. But with this issue, like most others, we're being ruled by a bunch of old white guys. The two Senators representing 700,000 people in Alaska have as much influence as the two senators representing 29,000,000 Californians. The government no longer represents us.
3
??? The Senate was designed to provide a chamber where each state has the same number of votes as any other state. The US is a federal republic, and our Constitution is designed to prevent a few large states from running the country. This normally isn't a problem when both parties try to appeal to everyone in the country, but clearly Democrats have chosen the losing side of geography and political appeal.
I think this 'gun owner vs non-gun owner' is a false dichotomy. I own guns and enjoy shooting them responsibly (including assault rifles). Growing up in red-state ruralia, it was just part of the background. Despite this, I supported Bernie, voted for Hillary, and am horrified by Donald. I dropped my NRA membership long ago due to their inflexible insanity. I know many gun owners with progressive ideals all of whom support sensible gun control: background checks at all points of sale, exclusion of possession by mentally unfit and misdemeanor violent, prohibition of 'bump stocks' and similar devices. There is a lot of room for compromise and meaningful legislation. We need a Statesman to walk across the aisle and lead the discussion. I'm hoping this tragedy (and 'bump stocks' in particular) will finally open the dialogue.
1
Good to hear, pretty much the same here.
I think the biggest factor driving those who buy a gun vs. those who don't isn't partisan politics but geographical location. Look no further than Vermont. Maybe the most left-leaning state yet there is a large percentage of gun owners. Why? Because of it's mountainous and rural landscape. You may be more inclined to buy a rifle when faced with the possibility that a bear or lion might show up in your yard. Same with people living in the rural areas of the great plains. You might be more inclined to keep a handgun in your house when the average time for the police to reach your property is 30mins+
3
I am full blown liberal, who loves to hunt. I own five guns. The NRA contacts me regularly, because I fit their profile as a great candidate for membership; due to the fact that I buy a sportsperson hunting license (full hunting rights) every year. I would never support their organization.
The issue of gun control has become very polarized, with both sides dug in. It has become more a litmus test of identity, instead of a debate over prudent public policy. I believe we need greater gun control laws, but I don't believe they would accomplish a significant reduction of gun deaths. Half of gun deaths are due to suicide, very few deaths result form the use of a semi-automatic weapon. Handguns cause the vast majority of gun deaths.
The issue of gun control has become very polarized, with both sides dug in. It has become more a litmus test of identity, instead of a debate over prudent public policy. I believe we need greater gun control laws, but I don't believe they would accomplish a significant reduction of gun deaths. Half of gun deaths are due to suicide, very few deaths result form the use of a semi-automatic weapon. Handguns cause the vast majority of gun deaths.
2
Please so another, serious, in-person study about who exactly buys guns, ammunition and accessories right after a mass shooting. It seems that after every incidence the media reports that gun sales go up.
I contend it is the same crazies - many of them nra operatives - buying even more "arsenal" material. Perhaps they are paid by the nra to get sales up or perhaps it's a lie. One way or another I'd like to find out because I think it's "fake" news.
I contend it is the same crazies - many of them nra operatives - buying even more "arsenal" material. Perhaps they are paid by the nra to get sales up or perhaps it's a lie. One way or another I'd like to find out because I think it's "fake" news.
4
In the past, I have been asked by two good friends to be their reference on their concealed carry permit applications. I agreed since both are law abiding and stable people. I was never contacted by the county authorities as to the fitness of either friend to concealed carry. Why have the laws if they are ignored? Do they neglect to contact every reference?
6
Attention gun owners: WE do not want your guns. WE want your guns to stop killing us and our loved ones.
It is time OUR lawmakers stop tip-toeing around the nra and take action. WE THE PEOPLE must demand that EVERY gun in The United States of America be registered on a national database, state licensed and fully insured for liability.
Let the insurance companies take the loss from these mass shootings and make "bad guys with guns" easier to find and the carnage will soon end.
It is time OUR lawmakers stop tip-toeing around the nra and take action. WE THE PEOPLE must demand that EVERY gun in The United States of America be registered on a national database, state licensed and fully insured for liability.
Let the insurance companies take the loss from these mass shootings and make "bad guys with guns" easier to find and the carnage will soon end.
13
Database, insurance, licenses, but there are still over 40,000 traffic deaths a year compared to the 11,000 firearm homicides.
I am betting that a number of gun owners simply choose not to believe this, or any statistic actually applies to themselves. It won't be their gun that will accidentally discharge in a toddler's hand, or find its way into a domestic argument. It won't be their gun that accidentally shoots a household member who came in late, or made a strange noise wandering through the house late at night. They don't believe it will be their gun that ends up in the hands of a teenage criminal after it is stolen from their home. They don't believe they need locks, or gun vaults to keep guns out of the hands of others. They simply don't believe, but they should. Statistically, gun owners are at greater risk than those who don't keep a gun, but they don't believe it applies to themselves. I don't think they will see how they were misled by the NRA over and over again, that Democrats want to come and take their guns. They no longer respond to logic or reason, so these statistics will mean nothing to them.
10
Hollywood has also played a big part in 'normalizing' violence and portraying it as 'entertaining'.
Pay close attention the next time you see billboards or ads throughout the subway system, for the latest Hollywood 'blockbuster' films. As we all know, when billboards/signs are first designed, the idea is to try and 'encapsulate' the overall theme of the film, and 'entice' you to see the film.
9 times out of 10, these ads include some type of weapon Prominently Featured in the ad. What can we takeaway from this? Well, first, that the film contains violence, and secondly, that this very fact (that the film contains violence) is supposed to 'entice' you to want to go see the film.
That fact in and of itself is very telling. Which came first, the chicken or the egg? Is Hollywood simply 'giving the viewers what they want', or has Hollywood helped to normalize violence and/or make it seem 'cool' or 'entertaining'?
Pay close attention the next time you see billboards or ads throughout the subway system, for the latest Hollywood 'blockbuster' films. As we all know, when billboards/signs are first designed, the idea is to try and 'encapsulate' the overall theme of the film, and 'entice' you to see the film.
9 times out of 10, these ads include some type of weapon Prominently Featured in the ad. What can we takeaway from this? Well, first, that the film contains violence, and secondly, that this very fact (that the film contains violence) is supposed to 'entice' you to want to go see the film.
That fact in and of itself is very telling. Which came first, the chicken or the egg? Is Hollywood simply 'giving the viewers what they want', or has Hollywood helped to normalize violence and/or make it seem 'cool' or 'entertaining'?
4
Interesting sociological data on gun ownership and gun attitudes. I can fully understand the urban vs. rural divide on this issue.
Survival of the human being trumps all other objectives. Gun attitudes play into that survival. As a young working adult in Manhattan from 1974 to 1979, that last thing you wanted was armed citizens. To many crowed spaces and to many nut cases.
I now have a farm in rural Missouri. The none-day-shift sheriff staffing level is two deputies. If something is going down at my place the deputies could be 5 minutes away or 45 minutes away, depending on what end of the county they are currently located. For me, self policing (of my property) is the only option, and that involves guns. Calling 911 and locking yourself in a safe room, with killers on the verge of breaking down the door, is not an option for me.
Survival of the human being trumps all other objectives. Gun attitudes play into that survival. As a young working adult in Manhattan from 1974 to 1979, that last thing you wanted was armed citizens. To many crowed spaces and to many nut cases.
I now have a farm in rural Missouri. The none-day-shift sheriff staffing level is two deputies. If something is going down at my place the deputies could be 5 minutes away or 45 minutes away, depending on what end of the county they are currently located. For me, self policing (of my property) is the only option, and that involves guns. Calling 911 and locking yourself in a safe room, with killers on the verge of breaking down the door, is not an option for me.
9
So, Alpha Dog, when was the last time that "killers [were] on the verge of breaking down the door" of a home in your area of rural Missouri? How often has this happened in the last ten years? Some hard numbers, please.
So statistically, a farm in rural Missouri is a high crime area? With killers on the verge of breaking down the door? Maybe you should move?
This does a lot to explain why I will never understand how anyone could have voted for Trump. I don't understand why anyone would own a gun either.
5
While I can certainly understand why someone would a gun (or maybe two) for hunting purposes, I still don't understand why any thinking person would vote for Don the Con. I grew up with guns but don't own one now because there is less chance to go hunting. And, if I did own one, I would find it hard to use against another human, which seems to be much of the GOP reason (fear) for owning a gun.
1
I am a gun owner and an enthusiastic Clinton supporter. I have regular interactions with people of different politic persuasions. Time and again I have heard from Trump supporters that Hillary Clinton would have taken “our” guns away. Nothing could be further from the truth, but l believe this particular disinformation had a powerful influence on the electorate.
20
Us too, Nancy. Wellstone Democrats - who happen to hunt and target shoot. Strong supporters of background checks, assault weapon bans and the freedom of government to ban or strictly regulate hand guns. We may be outliers but we do know plenty of other hunters who no way no how voted for Trump.
1
Hillary's weak stance on gun control, coupled her well established enthusiasm for foreign wars and Wall Street are among the reasons she was considered the second Republican candidate in the general election.
This makes perfect sense, esp. with regards to the most recent elections, because what gun-owners and Trump rhetoric all have in common is the element of paranoia...this sense that we are all 'under attack' and that we need to protect ourselves from 'outside elements'. So I'm not surprised that gun-owners would side with the Trump messaging more than anything.
8
I am against guns, but I do not assume that all gun owners are paranoid. I appreciate your attempt to analyze the data provided, but it is flawed and does make me concerned about how little nuance the chart presentation provides.
Read some of the comments from gun owners--the person who lived in New York and then moved to a rural area, in particular. No 9-1-1- call will bring police fast enough in an emergency. There will be no locking oneself in a room if something terrible is happening, in a rural area.
There are practical issues that make people decide to own guns. Some people also hunt (again, I am not in favor of this, but I do understand that some people like to hunt and that does not make them paranoid.).
This is an interesting article, but showing the data with this type of mapping is actually divisive and oversimplified, putting us all into one camp or another without regard to our inherent individuality and diversity of thought and deed.
Read some of the comments from gun owners--the person who lived in New York and then moved to a rural area, in particular. No 9-1-1- call will bring police fast enough in an emergency. There will be no locking oneself in a room if something terrible is happening, in a rural area.
There are practical issues that make people decide to own guns. Some people also hunt (again, I am not in favor of this, but I do understand that some people like to hunt and that does not make them paranoid.).
This is an interesting article, but showing the data with this type of mapping is actually divisive and oversimplified, putting us all into one camp or another without regard to our inherent individuality and diversity of thought and deed.
4
Ouch. Please don't put this gun owning liberal into the same box as gun owning Trumpsters. All Far Right Paranoiacs may be gun owners, but not all gun owners are right leaning or paranoid...
This highlights the enormous success of the NRA as the supreme lobbying effort of all time. The NRA has moved way past guns and now defines conservatism.
18
Bingo. They've defined the issue as Patriots vs. Tyranny. Unfortunately, there are a lot of Far Right Extremists who buy into this and are actually prepping for a dystopian future. They should not be conflated with 'gun owner', many of whom, like myself, reject the NRA's false narrative.
A gun for hunting or sport or a gun for protection or something else? What type of gun is a variable that makes a difference. Does it make a difference in voting? Not sure that question has been asked. Did they have a Glock, an AR-15-style rifle or a shotgun? A loaded gun in your bedroom nightstand or a shotgun in the closet and ammunition in a different part of the house? I don't think it is all the same.
5
I suspect that many/most of those who approve of private ownership of guns tend also to be fully supportive of local law enforcement (police). And local law enforcement continues to issue the directive that private citizens do not take law enforcement action into their own hands. So why do these proponents of private gun ownership need their guns?
8
Many of us live in rural areas. I do not have police service. Instead, a county sheriff and deputies serve a very large area. Response times can potentially be very long. Furthermore, we have other uses for firearms besides home protection, such as deterring predators and humanely putting down livestock.
Thank you for your reply, much appreciated.
However, I have a couple of responses/questions. I am astonished that you state that the level of official law enforcement in your area requires you to take the law into our own hands to the point of potentially shooting someone without having had proper training in how to handle such a situation. And this suggests that crime in your apparently very rural area is such that you need a weapon. I am born and raised in NYC and I've never felt the need to have a firearm for personal protection -- mace yes, a gun no.
Last, i suppose while being out in parts of rural Idaho, you might need to deter an animal 'predator' (mountain lion? bear?) yeah? But, as regards the last case, surely if you know in advance that livestock need to be put down a vet can be scheduled to give a lethal injection? Or surely there is some sort of police/park ranger who is licensed and trained to carry who could do it.
I still do not see a rational argument for private gun ownership. As a culture, I feel we Americans really need to step back an examine our thinking on this.
However, I have a couple of responses/questions. I am astonished that you state that the level of official law enforcement in your area requires you to take the law into our own hands to the point of potentially shooting someone without having had proper training in how to handle such a situation. And this suggests that crime in your apparently very rural area is such that you need a weapon. I am born and raised in NYC and I've never felt the need to have a firearm for personal protection -- mace yes, a gun no.
Last, i suppose while being out in parts of rural Idaho, you might need to deter an animal 'predator' (mountain lion? bear?) yeah? But, as regards the last case, surely if you know in advance that livestock need to be put down a vet can be scheduled to give a lethal injection? Or surely there is some sort of police/park ranger who is licensed and trained to carry who could do it.
I still do not see a rational argument for private gun ownership. As a culture, I feel we Americans really need to step back an examine our thinking on this.
One of the favorite slogans of gun-rights advocates is "When seconds count, the police are only minutes away!" Don't underestimate the appeal behind that sentiment.
Often wondered what our Founding Fathers would say today if the "right to bear arms shall not be infringed" given all they knew about were single shot muzzleloaders. They might have been concerned if they knew about bolt action rifles and double barrel (over-under) shotguns.
Today, with semi-automatic weapons of all types; high capacity magazines; the ability to add after market products to replicate fully-automatic weapon performance, I suspect those Founding Fathers would stare in disbelief at this Nation.
Today, with semi-automatic weapons of all types; high capacity magazines; the ability to add after market products to replicate fully-automatic weapon performance, I suspect those Founding Fathers would stare in disbelief at this Nation.
19
Often wondered what our Founding Fathers would say today about "the right to freedom of speech" given all they knew about were quill pens and single-sheet printing. They might have been concerned if they knew about mass production of books and newspapers, the internet, radio, television and movies.
6
Nice try. Apples to oranges. High-capacity weaponry is analogous to high-capacity forms of media and communication?
1
Gosh, you are so right! After all, those dang heavy books kill people all the time when they trip on them or when they fall off shelves. Those darn electrons and radio and tv waves are super lethal too. That is why I'm wearing tin foil on my head right now.
"Over all, gun-owning households (roughly a third in America) backed Mr. Trump by 63 percent to 31 percent, while households without guns backed Mrs. Clinton, 65 percent to 30 percent..."
I am somewhat comforted by the knowledge that, historically, the armed-left has ultimately defeated the armed-right, even though they were initially outgunned.
I am somewhat comforted by the knowledge that, historically, the armed-left has ultimately defeated the armed-right, even though they were initially outgunned.
2
Our urban areas are very well armed, though the guns may not be "owned."
3
It is not an issue of prohibiting gun ownership versus freedom to own a gun.
It is an issue of responsible gun ownership versus, which necessitates rules and regulations because it is OBVIOUS that human beings cannot be responsible on their own.
Capiche?
It is an issue of responsible gun ownership versus, which necessitates rules and regulations because it is OBVIOUS that human beings cannot be responsible on their own.
Capiche?
7
I didn’t vote for Trump, I’m not a fan of the NRA or all of the jibber jabber about 2nd Amendment Rights. I’m a democrat and I own gun(s). I am also a retired Army veteran and I don’t see any problem with owning guns responsibly. However, I don’t see any civilian application for automatic weapons for any reason nor do I have opposition to background checks. I purchased all of my weapons from military stores which require them before leaving the premises. If a background check stops one atrocity why for Pete’s sake would you oppose it?
50
If a national speed limit of 5mph would stop just one bad accident, why for Pete's sake would you oppose it?
Reg: First prove beyond a reasonable doubt that a restriction would prevent a massacre. It would not have, here.
Thank you for your service.
Thank you for your service.
I totally agree with you. As a 67 year old living on the family farm, I have a number of long guns, but view Trump, the NRA, and NRA followers as idiots (or should I say "morons") for their knee jerk response to any kind of reasonable gun control.
I see the NRA and some repubs are possibly supporting a ban on bump stocks. In reality, that stance is simply providing cover to prevent real gun control.
The NRA is nothing more than a marketing/lobbying tool of the gun manufacturers and retail outlets. They cloak themselves in the 2nd amendment but simply shill for those same manufacturers and retailers.
Even though I'm a life long gun owner, why in the hell do I need an AR-15, AK 47, et al? I've never, ever needed anything more than a .22 rifle and a 20 gauge single shot shotgun my entire life.
I see the NRA and some repubs are possibly supporting a ban on bump stocks. In reality, that stance is simply providing cover to prevent real gun control.
The NRA is nothing more than a marketing/lobbying tool of the gun manufacturers and retail outlets. They cloak themselves in the 2nd amendment but simply shill for those same manufacturers and retailers.
Even though I'm a life long gun owner, why in the hell do I need an AR-15, AK 47, et al? I've never, ever needed anything more than a .22 rifle and a 20 gauge single shot shotgun my entire life.
Stat. evidence of our national cultural gun abuse sickness.
Very much like the abusive husband and the co dependent enabling wife.
The "bad" guy, the gun owner initially is shocked by a violent event like Vegas and says he will reform but eventually does nothing about it.
The "victim", the non gun owner rails against the "bad" guy and says the gun is the problem not seeing that gun violence not the gun is the problem. The victim says nothing about violence in the inner city, nothing about left wing Hollywood being the de facto entertainment wing of the NRA spewing out grat. gun violent garbage aimed at our youth and obsesses only about more and more gun regs. as the miracle cure.
Until we realize it is a national cultural abuse gun sickness, suffered on both sides, the carnage will continue.
Only what history taught us, a policy of legality, regulation, responsibility and non promotion of the gun is the cure.
Very much like the abusive husband and the co dependent enabling wife.
The "bad" guy, the gun owner initially is shocked by a violent event like Vegas and says he will reform but eventually does nothing about it.
The "victim", the non gun owner rails against the "bad" guy and says the gun is the problem not seeing that gun violence not the gun is the problem. The victim says nothing about violence in the inner city, nothing about left wing Hollywood being the de facto entertainment wing of the NRA spewing out grat. gun violent garbage aimed at our youth and obsesses only about more and more gun regs. as the miracle cure.
Until we realize it is a national cultural abuse gun sickness, suffered on both sides, the carnage will continue.
Only what history taught us, a policy of legality, regulation, responsibility and non promotion of the gun is the cure.
7
What a metaphor! Abuse victims are "enabling?" By what, being so punchable? Not escaping sooner?
A stronger device might frame the gun culture or gun rights organizations as the "abuser" and gun owners as the "victim." See, they've done it. Instead of placing blame obviously, gun owners displace responsibility to outside actors such as Hollywood. It wasn't his fault! His dad hit him too!
A stronger device might frame the gun culture or gun rights organizations as the "abuser" and gun owners as the "victim." See, they've done it. Instead of placing blame obviously, gun owners displace responsibility to outside actors such as Hollywood. It wasn't his fault! His dad hit him too!
The "victim", the non gun owner rails against the "bad" guy and says the gun is the problem not seeing that gun violence not the gun is the problem. The victim says nothing about violence in the inner city, nothing about left wing Hollywood being the de facto entertainment wing of the NRA spewing out grat. gun violent garbage aimed at our youth and obsesses only about more and more gun regs. as the miracle cure.
***
The logic here is a bit tortured.
While nuclear weapons are not technically the problem, under this analysis, we still regulate access to fission and fusion weapons, as well as the precursors needed to make them. You don't have gun violence when guns are not readily available. This includes the largest category of gun violence, suicide by gun.
We do talk about violence in the inner cities, but other countries also have inner cities and they do not have the level of gun violence that the US has.
Finally, the claim that movies, video games, or Internet animation somehow cause only Americans to engage in gun violence misses the point that Hollywood, American music, violent video games, and the Internet present the same violent imagery without the same effect to populations worldwide. Why doesn't Australia have the same per capita rate of gun homicides as the US?
***
The logic here is a bit tortured.
While nuclear weapons are not technically the problem, under this analysis, we still regulate access to fission and fusion weapons, as well as the precursors needed to make them. You don't have gun violence when guns are not readily available. This includes the largest category of gun violence, suicide by gun.
We do talk about violence in the inner cities, but other countries also have inner cities and they do not have the level of gun violence that the US has.
Finally, the claim that movies, video games, or Internet animation somehow cause only Americans to engage in gun violence misses the point that Hollywood, American music, violent video games, and the Internet present the same violent imagery without the same effect to populations worldwide. Why doesn't Australia have the same per capita rate of gun homicides as the US?
Not surprising - gun ownership means "me first".
31
Most voters in this country are moderate, with some mixed views on various issues and common sense middle-of-the-road opinions. They are forced to choose between extreme candidates on both sides, reinforced by this kind of simplistic black-and-white reporting.
Most gun owners don't want assault rifles out in the population, many would agree with banning assault weapons and high-capacity clips and magazines. There are a lot of reasons a minority of people in this country voted for trump, but "gun-owning" was not the reason he was elected.
As an intelligent newspaper, you know that prejudice and bigotry are never helpful. Why encourage them by giving a forum to people to rant about "those awful gun owners?"
Oh, and please don't be fooled by the current b.s. about banning bump stocks. Sure, they absolutely need to be banned, but they are a red herring in this debate. Let's work to finally ban sale and possession of all assault rifles and high capacity clips and magazines and create universal and effective background checks and limits for gun purchases.