These pictures and comments from China's border street stores really takes the story to a level where you can envision how businesses in China are effected by a lack of trade, and how they assess blame based on their own experience. Pictures of NK from the boarder seems to show a dismal and oppressed country. Nothing like the propaganda pictures. People there are truly born into imprisonment.
I blame Truman for this crises. Should've let MacArthur finish the job.
2
Thank you.
Great photos.
I wish I could have gone through China when I was in North Korea.
But as Americans, we are not allowed.
These pictures and quotations from Chinese tourists exposes hypocrisy of China.
We met Chinese tourists while we were in North Korea - and they take it like a shopping and holidaying paradise because everything is so cheap for them.
They are also smug that they got rid of Mao and see what could have been in China.
China and the Chinese are the protectors of this rocket man and his henchmen.
Chinese have long discarded communism and are in pursuit of riches.
Having tasted its fruits, the Chinese are doing everything to leave China should something go wrong. Come to London where I am currently living. You would think its Shanghai on Thames.
And China fears another Vietnam - now its sworn enemy - if North Korea falls. Surely, freed Koreans will think China is their enemey.
Its time to make China pay for its arrogance in supporting a regime that is a threat to humanity.
I wish this reporter had engaged in a deeper conversation about North Korea - but the Chinese probably will have towed the party line.
I hope the POTUS makes the Chinese understand that they are about to pay for their folly of supporting the rocket man.
Great photos.
I wish I could have gone through China when I was in North Korea.
But as Americans, we are not allowed.
These pictures and quotations from Chinese tourists exposes hypocrisy of China.
We met Chinese tourists while we were in North Korea - and they take it like a shopping and holidaying paradise because everything is so cheap for them.
They are also smug that they got rid of Mao and see what could have been in China.
China and the Chinese are the protectors of this rocket man and his henchmen.
Chinese have long discarded communism and are in pursuit of riches.
Having tasted its fruits, the Chinese are doing everything to leave China should something go wrong. Come to London where I am currently living. You would think its Shanghai on Thames.
And China fears another Vietnam - now its sworn enemy - if North Korea falls. Surely, freed Koreans will think China is their enemey.
Its time to make China pay for its arrogance in supporting a regime that is a threat to humanity.
I wish this reporter had engaged in a deeper conversation about North Korea - but the Chinese probably will have towed the party line.
I hope the POTUS makes the Chinese understand that they are about to pay for their folly of supporting the rocket man.
The article mentions Chinese who regularly swim to the Korean side of the river for exercise. Why is there no mention of North Koreans swimming over to the Chinese side -- and staying there? I'm guessing they would if they could. So what's stopping them?
It looks like even North Korean bridges are in better shape than ours here in the US. Infrastructure spending anyone?
If China is concerned about US allies on its border, then China should conquer N Korea, end its nuclear program and make it a buffer zone...problem solved. We could negotiate a settlement with China in charge...not with N Korea.
The last time that American troops rolled towards the Yalu River border between China and North Korea, Chairman Mao Zedong was unable to restrain a million Chinese "volunteers" from rising up in righteous fury to repel them. Harry Truman countered with a conventional military response leading to the current armistice.
1
Great article. I was curious just how familiar the citizens would be about current events, given the media restrictions in both countries. The article doesn't really explore the depths of their knowledge, though.
Boy, can you imagine if Mexican citizens were allowed to swim across the Rio Grande, as long as they stayed in the shallows and didn't come onshore? Definitely a different border culture!
Boy, can you imagine if Mexican citizens were allowed to swim across the Rio Grande, as long as they stayed in the shallows and didn't come onshore? Definitely a different border culture!
Mr. Kim has exceeded far above anyones expectations in his ability to garuantee neither South Korea, Japan or the US has the ability to stop his military adventures. He totally ignored President Moon of South Korea in his request for dialog and aid. Once he has the means to destroy an American city with a nuclear missile, he will move with impunity to threaten South Korea. He will have the leverage to remove all US military assets from the South. Once that happens, he reunifies the Korean pennsulia under his terms.
1
"Residents and tourists seemed divided over whether to blame North Korea OR the US"
How about substituting AND for OR?
How about substituting AND for OR?
I remember when the Chinese poured across this river and changed the course of the Korean War forever. Now they will have their own lives altered forever by the radioactive clouds that drift over millions in their cities, all because they supported a North Korean leader determined to go nuclear.
I cannot read or view the photos with my iMac. All I get is a short clip of a single building. No text or sound.
Try using Firefox and/or make sure you're using the most recent browser. Or it could be a Flash issue.
1
I can read and view the photos with my MacPro.
I had to turn off my ad blocker to view the gifs. (I hadn't realized it was turned on for this domain. Oops. Fixed that.)
“I hate America,” one trader in Dandong said. “Why don’t they let me do any business?” This resentment against the US is widespread. Many Chinese blame the US for the root cause of North Korea's insecurity, forcing it to go nuclear. But Trump argues that China does not do enough to rein in Pyongyang, saying all Beijing needs to do to is to turn off the energy tap. But the leadership in China doesn't share his views.
There is a sense of complacency here in China and South Korea that North Korea simply acts in accordance with its long proclaimed strategy - the nuclear programme guarantees the regime survival. And few in China and South Korea believe that Kim is suicidal, despite his blusters.
There is a sense of complacency here in China and South Korea that North Korea simply acts in accordance with its long proclaimed strategy - the nuclear programme guarantees the regime survival. And few in China and South Korea believe that Kim is suicidal, despite his blusters.
13
Saying stuff does not make it so.
South Korea, Japan, are secure because of American presence.
China has aided the North Korean nuke and missile programs and tried to bully South Korea for having a missile defense. Xi, not China, but the dictator of the Chinese communist party, Xi, wants to use North Korea to get America out. Result: nuke destabilization. Nuke war risk ...skyrockets. Get your own nukes is the new rule these commenters demand for pity's sake.
And while it is wonderful to be so dutiful in reciting as scripture Xi's strategic choices as Chna's, in the Times the few mentions I have seen of the risk of this strategy when Kim is destabilitng an otherwise stable situation, are from Chinese insiders pointing out this strategy of Xi's is mistaken, lost in a past long gone, does not help China and risks and may even be likely to enrage the Americans. Being under threat of annhilation from a Chinese protectorate sociopath gangster China gives cover can do that to rational people. Gangster being a precise term with the slave rackets, the counterfeit rackets, the kidnapping and whoring and assassaination rackets, and the drug rackets and the computer theft rackets.
How is it that all these mind readers--whose position cannot be found in Kim's many own words about his position--know less about America's national interest than do Chinese communist analyst insiders see who it as obvious and who are allowed to PUBLISH?
South Korea, Japan, are secure because of American presence.
China has aided the North Korean nuke and missile programs and tried to bully South Korea for having a missile defense. Xi, not China, but the dictator of the Chinese communist party, Xi, wants to use North Korea to get America out. Result: nuke destabilization. Nuke war risk ...skyrockets. Get your own nukes is the new rule these commenters demand for pity's sake.
And while it is wonderful to be so dutiful in reciting as scripture Xi's strategic choices as Chna's, in the Times the few mentions I have seen of the risk of this strategy when Kim is destabilitng an otherwise stable situation, are from Chinese insiders pointing out this strategy of Xi's is mistaken, lost in a past long gone, does not help China and risks and may even be likely to enrage the Americans. Being under threat of annhilation from a Chinese protectorate sociopath gangster China gives cover can do that to rational people. Gangster being a precise term with the slave rackets, the counterfeit rackets, the kidnapping and whoring and assassaination rackets, and the drug rackets and the computer theft rackets.
How is it that all these mind readers--whose position cannot be found in Kim's many own words about his position--know less about America's national interest than do Chinese communist analyst insiders see who it as obvious and who are allowed to PUBLISH?
Huh? You lost me after the first sentence.
China and Russia want a buffer zone between US forces in South Korea and mainland Asia. They won't be happy with a destabilized North Korea.
But on a humanitarian level, we can't continue harsh sanctions on the starving people of the North in order to change the mind of their corpulent leader. They can't vote him out of office.
But on a humanitarian level, we can't continue harsh sanctions on the starving people of the North in order to change the mind of their corpulent leader. They can't vote him out of office.
10
We can let China and Russia feed them. America's interest lies in our adversaries hands.
1
Thank you for this. It truly helps to meet some of the people on the other side whose lives are, like ours, at the mercy of politics and politicians. It's critical we not demonize the innocents or feel apathetic about their well-being. It's this apathy that warring politicians are able to capitalize on, and graphical snapshots like this are, in that sense, a tremendous weapon against war itself.
11
very good and helpful but mostly superficial. wish it were longer and more insightful. You show a panorama of the Chinese side of the river - why not the Korean side?
Coming from the TY Times: a disappointment
Coming from the TY Times: a disappointment
3
This presentation does not display correctly in all browsers, so it's rather blank, hence the lack of comments. That said images from inside N.K. are not so hard to find, I've seen an analysis of a typical NK department store, was surprised to see how normal it looked at the checkout aisle. See the archive here:
http://www.38north.org/ calls itself, "Informed analysis of events in and around North Korea" and is part of the Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies. More there than here.
http://www.38north.org/ calls itself, "Informed analysis of events in and around North Korea" and is part of the Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies. More there than here.
2
Trump especially him, needs to clam up. He's a real danger to escalating this to the point the DPRK will attempt something truly crazy such as an open ocean detonation with risk to life and poisoning the environment. The logic of the North Korean will be something like, well the USA did open air nuclear tests for twenty years, so we can too. That's how they will think. But they could accidentally hit civilians directly or through fallout. Then what will our Crazy in Chief do?? I wished our Crazy leader would be less Crazy then theirs and clam up.
5
Make no mistake about it. China sent over a million combat troops and sustained 180,000 deaths to save North Korea during the Korean War. Only a fool would risk a world war by assuming that China would isolate or turn against North Korea. If North Korea collapses under the weight of South Korean and United States military intervention, the Communist Party of China would have no choice but to defend North Korea lest it loses all ideological legitimacy in the eyes of party cadres that still run the country. As we learn over and over political leaders go to war, even losing ones, to preserve their position in their immediate circle of political competition. The Taliban went to war against the U.S. in 1992 and Saddam Hussein against the U.S. in 1994: in their immediate calculation, the full might of the U.S. military was less a threat than the Pashtun warlords and Shiite militia. After doubling and tripling down on one-party rule even as Chinese economy liberalized, the CCP leaders find themselves between a rock and a hard place. The fact that they are willing to risk trade relationships with their top three trading partners (U.S., Japan, and South Korea) to shield North Korea is a clear demonstration that CCP sees politics more important than economics when it comes to this issue. What is required at this point is patience: at the end of the day, it may be more likely that CCP loses power in China than the madman in Pyongyang gives up on nuclear weapons.
10
This love and embrace of a Chinese strategic mistake is interesting.
If China wants to have a war to protect the ability of North Korea to destroy America, the repeatedly announced goal of Kim, then
let
us
have
the
war. Better now than later. And consumers won't get the new iPhone just yet.
And, give Japan and South Korea and Taiwan and India and Vietnam more missile defenses than they can handle aand at least as many nuked missiles as North Korea.
Fair for one, fair for all. Simple. But of course, no one really believes the missiles are for deterrence and all should have them. just something they say. Objective allies of fascist buffoons everywhere including Trump.m
But to get to the key fact many refuse to grasp: North Korea is destabilizing not securing. It is taking its threat of destruction from none, zero, nada, no one cares and there a re infinite other solutions that a third grader could come up with that make more sense, and make the risk high then likely then certain. China has done more than any other nation to allow this to happen. Sow. reap.
If China wants to have a war to protect the ability of North Korea to destroy America, the repeatedly announced goal of Kim, then
let
us
have
the
war. Better now than later. And consumers won't get the new iPhone just yet.
And, give Japan and South Korea and Taiwan and India and Vietnam more missile defenses than they can handle aand at least as many nuked missiles as North Korea.
Fair for one, fair for all. Simple. But of course, no one really believes the missiles are for deterrence and all should have them. just something they say. Objective allies of fascist buffoons everywhere including Trump.m
But to get to the key fact many refuse to grasp: North Korea is destabilizing not securing. It is taking its threat of destruction from none, zero, nada, no one cares and there a re infinite other solutions that a third grader could come up with that make more sense, and make the risk high then likely then certain. China has done more than any other nation to allow this to happen. Sow. reap.
2
Right on.
Moreover the most maligned odd nation out in this region is Japan. Korea was once a colony of the Japanese Empire. Imperial Japan killed 30 million Chinese during the Chinese People's War Against Japanese Aggression aka World War II. The Japanese defeated Russia in a war at the turn of the last century. Pearl Harbor led to Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
Moreover the most maligned odd nation out in this region is Japan. Korea was once a colony of the Japanese Empire. Imperial Japan killed 30 million Chinese during the Chinese People's War Against Japanese Aggression aka World War II. The Japanese defeated Russia in a war at the turn of the last century. Pearl Harbor led to Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
1
I really enjoy these multimedia pieces produced by the NYT. Especially when they focus upon complex issues such as North Korea. Rarely are issues black & white, as such the ability to "experience" the context etc. via these pieces is helpful. Thank you Mr. Goldman & Mr. Rossback.
3
appreciate the visuals as well the well written coverage.
3
My wife's family is from this area of China and both sides of the river are strikingly beautiful, if they put each other in stark relief. From her home town on the border you can see small farming villages, occasional guard towers, and not much else on the North Korean side. While on the Chinese side there are flourishing modern cities alongside traditional farmers. You can meet many people came from North Korea and probably still have family there. They are good people and of coarse we have our shared humanity. It is such a shame that the leaders of our two countries cannot get together and work out a solution that it best for the people instead of simply stoking there egos and trying to play to an audience. Real dialogue would work and the world would be a much happier, productive, and richer place for it.
15
I was struck by how the comments about nuclear war were mostly about self interest. I wouldn't draw the conclusion that there is no empathy, but even voicing concerns like that would raise eyebrows in the US. Nobody is like 'I hope it doesn't come to war because they might nuke DC because I need my maryland crab cakes and the waters might get contaminated...'
Aside from that, I love the media included and the subject of the story. It really humanizes a border that I imagine as sanitized, militarized, and stigmatized. Those Dubai-like skyscrapers, if I were looking across at them, would feel intimidating, provocative, and invoke melancholy.
Aside from that, I love the media included and the subject of the story. It really humanizes a border that I imagine as sanitized, militarized, and stigmatized. Those Dubai-like skyscrapers, if I were looking across at them, would feel intimidating, provocative, and invoke melancholy.
1
It strikes me the interview subjects are just being honest and unassuming. In the US, we tend to relay a broader conscience outwardly while we quietly fear for our own health and safety and for our families'. The difference is, they speak forthrightly about their personal fear.
2
There is a very fine line between self-preservation and self-interest.
And do you really believe that some people, particularly those who have enough money to move about pretty freely, are not as self-interested? Some folks worry about the stock market and if the laundry irons their shirts right, and little else.
And do you really believe that some people, particularly those who have enough money to move about pretty freely, are not as self-interested? Some folks worry about the stock market and if the laundry irons their shirts right, and little else.
I'm 77 years old, and I do greatly fear having the rest of my life interrupted by nuclear war, as well as that of my children and grandchildren.
well presented article with video clips, but I was hoping to see more quotes and video for such a long journey....360 view would be nice to compare the part of the article that contrasted both sides of the river.
1
Interesting observation slices, Mr. Buckley. I hope that the Times keeps these insights coming. Thank you.
5
Few in China actually like North Korea.
3
Ethnic Han Chinese supremacists along with ethnic Japanese supremacists look down on ethnic Koreans along with all other Asian ethnicities.
1