If I were a major corporation looking for a city to locate in, I would consider the political progressiveness of the city/state and the safety of our employees and their families. For me, that would eliminate places and states that have too loose gun laws, perverse ones, like stand your ground, out of control police forces (most places) and right wing discriminatory politics, like the south and south west. Denver would be in the middle, Boston would be the best of all places mentioned. However, if you are a predatory capitalist company like Amazon, Washington D.C. would be the natural choice. And the boss already lives in true oligarch splendor there already, among the most corrupt politicians in the country.
8
Anyone ever try flying in and out of Denver in the winter? I have, and I would choose Anchorage, AK over Denver any day. Three snowflakes, and Denver is closed. I lived in and flew in and out of Anchorage for at least 20 years, and the only time I ever saw the airport closed was for a nearby volcano eruption. As a California resident (native, in fact), I'd have chosen Riverside. It's close enough to the high-tech areas of both LA and San Francisco for people to get to entertainment, which would also grow up around Amazon, and the cost of living is among the lowest in the state. It has great transportation and a good, if hot, climate, without earthquakes or bad winter weather - yet.
6
With the way Amazon runs through its white collar employees every two years burning them out and using them up for all they're worth, the metro area ought to be a boon for other companies looking to hire decent, hardworking people who would like to earn an honest living without being treated like a slave.
11
North America is the location requirement, so it is disappointing yet not altogether surprising that Canada was excluded. This is especially so, considering its principal cities exceed the quality of life in American cities according many different studies. Toronto is an obvious choice: eastern time zone to complement the Seattle headquarters, in the center of major populations on both sides of the border, an incredibly diverse and well-educated population, and located within a country that is looking to the future--welcoming of immigrants who help drive innovation--not to the past.
11
How would that help the US economy, exactly? I don't much care how it helps Amazon, but Canada's not our problem.
7
@Seagazer
Mega-corporations in modern society are quite like countries within themselves. They do not have loyalties, only interests. The Dow would have it no other way.
Mega-corporations in modern society are quite like countries within themselves. They do not have loyalties, only interests. The Dow would have it no other way.
1
You really think that Amazon would put the US economy ahead of its profits? Wow.
12
Although I did not go by the exact criteria Amazon I had -- basing it on where I and my friends/ relatives would like to live (many in tech) -- Amazon picked the city I picked: Denver. My other pick was Pittsburgh.
4
Away from quake zones - Seattle and Silicon Valley reside on active faults which are relatively active (think Loma Prieta and Nisqually quakes as examples). Other natural disaster zones are coastlines which can become inundated or blown away. Great lifestyles in areas of gorgeous scenery may be important attractions for sports-minded techies but corporate responsibility also includes being mindful of what Mother Nature may have in store.
4
I have to admit that Denver makes tons of sense. But as a proud Houstonian, I'd say don't write us off. First, the oil downturn has resulted in tons of available Class A office space downtown -- it wouldn't be hard to assemble essentially a turnkey campus, with room to expand. (And all in areas that didn't flood during Harvey). Second, Texas gives away tons of incentives in the form of property-tax relief. Third, there's no personal income tax here, so the already hefty dollars go farther. We've got a ways to go on amenities, but we're working hard on it, and we do have the beach less than an hour away. It's true that in the global sense, our traffic can be horrendous, but that's people trying to get to the distant suburbs -- close-in traffic is almost a non-issue. Houston may be a stronger contender than people suppose.
Sorry, Eve. In this case Amazon can pick any place, and some of their decision will include their perception of where employees want to live (and play). And for all the opportunities in Houston, nobody really wants to live there.
8
I agree, no one would want to go there with all the conservative politicians. But it would be great for Amazon to bring in enough progressives to make Texas a purple state.
9
You got some serious weather and flooding problems, though, I mean, like, right now?
3
Tampa has access to population, highways, a top-notch airport, affordable housing, and proximity to 3 major universities (USF, UCF, and UF). There is a multi-billion dollar massive development project currently underway looking for a large corporate HQ. There are also 2 large Amazon distribution centers close by. in Ruskin and Lakeland. Not to mention 8-9 months of beautiful weather, pristine beaches, and crystal springs. Assuming it all survives Hurricane Irma, that is.
Bad timing!
9
And at least one hurricane a year, plus sinkholes everywhere.
4
John Waters, "Baltimore is the last city in the United States affordable enough to have a Bohemian arts community."
- Case closed!
- Case closed!
4
I think it's going to be D.C. Jeff already owns a house there, AND the Washington Post, not to mention the intangible benefits of being close to the center of power. Clearly of interest to him.
6
I think this contest will boil down to two factors: (1) where present and future Amazon employees want to live (or think they want to live) and (2) tax breaks and other giveaways.
Never underestimate the "cool" factor or the willingness of local and state governments to give away the store -- in this case, too big to tax.
Never underestimate the "cool" factor or the willingness of local and state governments to give away the store -- in this case, too big to tax.
8
Whoever wrote this obviously hasn't been to the twin cities (Minneapolis/St.Paul). We have a total metro population of over 3.5 million, a highly education population, and highly ranked quality of living. The Minneapolis area should have easily avoided being cut on many levels.
22
Funny - your winner was my guess immediately when I looked at your map, without even knowing the fine details. Agree with it, though I would say that NYC metro area also wouldn't be a bad choice. Lots of affordable housing outside Manhattan, great quality of life in neighboring areas. Salt Lake I could also see being a decent fit.
4
of all the places I would think NYC is the worst. Who wants to have to drive or commute 1.5 hours every day each direction. You can't get out of NYC easily, and on a good day it just is crowded, smelly, noisy, congested and unfriendly.
3
Raleigh has a congestion rating of 432 to Denver's 107, you could argue that it while its transit is in it's early stages (and planned and funded), it doesn't need mass transit immediately.
1
But the right wing politics of NC would keep any sane person away.
13
Denver is way too cold.
2
You have probably not spent much time here in the winter. Winter weather is Denver's secret. It would be wonderful if everyone thought it was too cold here!
5
The type of people Amazon wants to attract are likely outdoorsy-types who would take advantage of Colorado's mountains, sun, and skiing. I am from Seattle and live in Silicon Valley so around a lot of tech folks.
6
PITSBURGH! First of all not having robust job growth may be a plus. There will be a larger pool of people needing work and Bezos will have more flexibility on wages. Pittsburgh has good education at all levels and with CMU, Pitt and UPMC it has lots of tech expertise. It is relatively immune from natural disasters. There is space to build and an airport that was just rated the best in the world for 2017. The cost of living is reasonably low and taxes are not bad either. The life style is not bad here either for people who like football, ballet or even microbreweries.
11
I'm happy its not Austin. The city and environs are crowded and overextended already and I loathe the idea that taxpayers have to subsidize companies to locate anywhere. Stadiums, concert venues, companies all get a tax free buffet courtesy of elected officials who want a piece of the action. Meanwhile its the taxpayer who is stuck is overburdened roads, schools and natural resources.
If its Denver, it will strangle the startup environment as entrepreneurs won't be able to find the right talent. I wonder does Amazon get naming rights as part of their deal?
If its Denver, it will strangle the startup environment as entrepreneurs won't be able to find the right talent. I wonder does Amazon get naming rights as part of their deal?
4
I continue to wonder whether Amazon CEO, Jeff Bezos, understands what building a brand new urban campus actually entails for the residents of a city. Few cities, if any, could realistically handle a massive influx of highly paid tech workers because of the strain that new workers and families place on transportation and public school systems, as well as worsening major housing shortages across the country.
One simply needs to look at the city of San Francisco to see how major technology companies destroy urban communities. The mass migration of highly skilled, high paid tech workers to San Francisco and the Bay Area as a whole, has pushed an already bad housing crisis to become the worst in the country while also increasing the pace of gentrification. The people were what made the Bay Area so attractive to move towards, but what happens when those residents can’t even afford to live in their own city anymore?
I fail to understand why Jeff Bezos refuses to build multiple, smaller campuses in many major cities to help revitalize economies and create jobs. Many cities, especially in the Midwest such as Cleveland, Detroit, and Minneapolis, could greatly benefit from the economic investment, and they would also be capable of handling a small increase of new, high paid tech workers. Bezos’ vision of a new 50,000 person hub in a major urban center isn’t only illogical, but it threatens the cultural soul of nearly every city.
One simply needs to look at the city of San Francisco to see how major technology companies destroy urban communities. The mass migration of highly skilled, high paid tech workers to San Francisco and the Bay Area as a whole, has pushed an already bad housing crisis to become the worst in the country while also increasing the pace of gentrification. The people were what made the Bay Area so attractive to move towards, but what happens when those residents can’t even afford to live in their own city anymore?
I fail to understand why Jeff Bezos refuses to build multiple, smaller campuses in many major cities to help revitalize economies and create jobs. Many cities, especially in the Midwest such as Cleveland, Detroit, and Minneapolis, could greatly benefit from the economic investment, and they would also be capable of handling a small increase of new, high paid tech workers. Bezos’ vision of a new 50,000 person hub in a major urban center isn’t only illogical, but it threatens the cultural soul of nearly every city.
18
"I fail to understand why Jeff Bezos refuses to build multiple, smaller campuses in many major cities to help revitalize economies and create jobs."
Maybe because Amazona is not a charity and their employees are not missionaries?
Maybe because Amazona is not a charity and their employees are not missionaries?
7
I for one, will NEVER buy anything from Amazon/Whole Foods.
Trump may think he's pulled off a coup. But Bezos is way out in front. Anyone that supports either is a fool and gets what they deserve, except, of course, it will drag us all down.
Trump may think he's pulled off a coup. But Bezos is way out in front. Anyone that supports either is a fool and gets what they deserve, except, of course, it will drag us all down.
4
"gets what they deserve"
Wide selection of goods and merchandise, great prices.
Wide selection of goods and merchandise, great prices.
11
Nashville plans to reel them in through the power of prayer.
13
Amazon and sprawling Denver would be perfect partners, and I applaud Boston for admitting that they have no intentions getting into a bidding war to adopt the monster. As for "quality of life", please don't insult my NYC, which happens to have a far larger and more vibrant system of colleges and universities than Denver.
8
Boston and Massachusetts provided $145 million to attractive GE and its 800 jobs to Boston.
They'll be more than happy to bid on 50,000 jobs.
They'll be more than happy to bid on 50,000 jobs.
5
For 145M you won't get a handshake from Jeff Bezo. And GE headquarters are much smaller than what Amazon plans. But there is less of a space constraint than one might think without having to go to Waltham. There is good RE around Suffolk Down towards Revere with decent public transport. An often overlooked area in Boston.
2
Why did Atlanta get eliminated based on transportation? They've got a pretty good metro system and are a major airline hub. Alaska Airlines alone has two nonstops per day to Seattle
4
Atlanta traffic isn't even all that bad these days (except on Fridays).
1
Denver is the right place; there you can smoke pot by the gallon, all legal, tthus avoiding anxiety when not getting that pay raise.
13
Would alleviate the stress of working for Amazon, right?
1
Would it be possible to present this information through composite scoring for each site? It might be the case that Denver fulfills all of Amazon's publicized criteria, but it would be interesting to see how metro areas eliminated earlier your team's process (cough, Providence, cough) would do.
3
Toronto – a far less hostile national govt, much more accommodating. A rich flow of immigrants from all over the world, including US refugees from the Trumpist regime. Excellent public mass transit. Fine universities. What more could one ask for?
6
...but bad traffic. Bad...
1
Every major city has bad traffic. I've lived in Toronto (recently) and it's no worse than any other.
1
High cost of living, relatively low living standard comparing to US and tax, most importantly need a passport to get to.
2
It mist be an anti-union and anti-worker state as Amazon is notorious for treating it's lower level employees badly.
7
I am thinking Amazon makes enough money off of us and hurricane survivors. Time for some real reporting.
1
Cheesequake, New Jersey. But just because i love saying, Cheesequake, New Jersey.
3
We also like Hohokus!
7
Please stay away from Denver! People are already having a hard time affording housing, we don't want the situation to get worse by yet another influx of well-paid tech workers.
6
Great analysis but as the authors note, Canada was excluded. As soon as I saw this my mind went ... click ... diversify HQ outside of the US.
I'm a software executive, and risk mitigation (particularly in these times of political turmoil, and the potential loss of H1B visas) is paramount. Given the political climate Amazon could not say "we're putting a second HQ in Canada". That is exactly what Amazon want, and they want bidding in place to keep it competitive.
I'll be surprised if this ends up in any US city - who wants all their eggs in one basket?
I'm a software executive, and risk mitigation (particularly in these times of political turmoil, and the potential loss of H1B visas) is paramount. Given the political climate Amazon could not say "we're putting a second HQ in Canada". That is exactly what Amazon want, and they want bidding in place to keep it competitive.
I'll be surprised if this ends up in any US city - who wants all their eggs in one basket?
3
America has always been great.
1
North America is much bigger than the United States. Canada has a huge pool of highly-skilled tech workers. Canada offers stable, relatively functional governance, and it makes sure its citizens have basic necessities like heathcare and education. Unlike the United States, its immigration policies are rational and friendly towards people who come to work and make Canada a better place for all. Climate change is making the southern United States less livable, generally, and will put economic pressure on northern states to once again bail them out. By having HQ2 in Canada, Amazon would have its eggs in separate baskets, in case parts of the United States collapse.
26
Raleigh was cut in a final round for the category "get around/out of town." Look closer: direct flights to London, Paris, Seattle; hourly connex to CLT/ATL for dozens more. Hop Amtrak to DC right from downtown; bike the greenway network; hike mountains-to-sea trails. If you must be on the roads: Uber/Lyft everywhere; beach/mountains 3 hour drive; I-40 & I-95 access for distribution. Add tasty cost of living; thriving magnet schools; and three top universities. (All that, and microbreweries.)
2
Lets not forget sitting in traffic
I wouldn't discount Portland because it's so close to Seattle. That could possibly be seen by Jeff as a net positive given company culture and progressive mindset. I personally would be ambivalent about having it in Portland as I live here but the influx we've had in the past 10 years has brought a real, fresh vibrancy to the city. We think our housing prices have gotten insane but compared to the other major cities on the left coast it's still a bargain to buy here.
2
With all due respect - it would make almost zero business sense to have 2 headquarters so close. They might as well keep expanding in Seattle in that case.
10
It depends Andre - on what your version of 'business sense' is. Proximity is to Silicon Valley is exactly why we have the other campus of Intel located here.
1
Vancouver BC would make way more sense that Portland, respectfully.
2
The authors use economist David Albouy's method to rank cities based on his quality of life index, with which they remove Charlotte, NC and Indianapolis, IN from consideration.
Not only is quality of life a very difficult thing to quantify, but the data set that Dr. Albouy used for the analysis that the authors cited is from almost 20 years ago. A city can change a great deal in twenty years. For example, Carmel, IN, a suburb of Indianapolis, is now consistently rated in the top handful of cities on lists of best places to live in the US, and downtown Indianapolis is mushrooming with new luxury apartment buildings, an electric car and bike sharing services, and thriving arts and entertainment districts that were in the doldrums in 2000.
While I appreciate the authors efforts to rank and quantify cities by quality of life, I recommend some caution in interpreting their conclusions without a few more recent data sets to combine.
Not only is quality of life a very difficult thing to quantify, but the data set that Dr. Albouy used for the analysis that the authors cited is from almost 20 years ago. A city can change a great deal in twenty years. For example, Carmel, IN, a suburb of Indianapolis, is now consistently rated in the top handful of cities on lists of best places to live in the US, and downtown Indianapolis is mushrooming with new luxury apartment buildings, an electric car and bike sharing services, and thriving arts and entertainment districts that were in the doldrums in 2000.
While I appreciate the authors efforts to rank and quantify cities by quality of life, I recommend some caution in interpreting their conclusions without a few more recent data sets to combine.
Funny, quality of life is nothing I would think of during the long and cold winters in Indy.
1
The type of "quality of life" that many magazines use to rank cities and suburbs is not often the same "quality of life" that tech people and their families use to decide ratings. I find a lot of those magazines use things like the affordability of a large house with a sprawling yard as a factor or a low crime rate or convenience to malls/ chain stores whereas tech folks may be more inclined to use walkability to hip/independent shops, diversity in the population, good schools, access to outdoor facilities, etc. as factors more. Not to mention access to mountains and oceans for outdoor rec and the state politics/ culture of Indiana.
Nothing against Indiana but it would be far from my first choice as a state to live in and none of my friends/ families have ever considered moving there.
Nothing against Indiana but it would be far from my first choice as a state to live in and none of my friends/ families have ever considered moving there.
4
CLIMATE. The criteria missed "climate change refuge." If we are going to put a bunch of people somewhere, anywhere, it needs to be a place that is relatively climate-hardy. Many of the places in this article are bad candidates for that. Our taxes cannot support infinite rebuilds after annual disasters. Somebody had better start modeling where we should all go. Amazon could start it off.
13
My metro area may get a few feet of snow in January, but we will NEVER get hurricanes, earthquakes or devastating tornadoes and forest fires.
Oh, we have a large freshwater lake and sit 2 hours from Toronto, the 4th biggest city in North America, and 6 hours from New York.
Oh, we have a large freshwater lake and sit 2 hours from Toronto, the 4th biggest city in North America, and 6 hours from New York.
3
Areas where you can visit Elvis Presley's grave - one.
1
No contest. It's going to be Atlanta!
1
You know an evaluation is hogwash when it lists microbreweries as a factor.
For the record it should be stated that Amazon is a "New Slavery" company, famous for browbeating workers and putting onerous demands on them. It's corporate ethic is at odds with progressive values in life, and bound to create a political disturbance wherever it goes by osmotically separating the workforce into well paid brown-nose lackies and jobless with minds of their own. Finally the idea that you need the latest and greatest technical minds to run a giant retailer reseller is a laugh. Unless they submit to collective bargaining, what this company needs is slaves, so I suggest they move to either India or China, pay nothing, and pass the savings on to consumers.
For the record it should be stated that Amazon is a "New Slavery" company, famous for browbeating workers and putting onerous demands on them. It's corporate ethic is at odds with progressive values in life, and bound to create a political disturbance wherever it goes by osmotically separating the workforce into well paid brown-nose lackies and jobless with minds of their own. Finally the idea that you need the latest and greatest technical minds to run a giant retailer reseller is a laugh. Unless they submit to collective bargaining, what this company needs is slaves, so I suggest they move to either India or China, pay nothing, and pass the savings on to consumers.
10
CK - all the manual work will be done by computers and robots soon. Most of the jobs in these "fulfillment centers" will be automated in a decade or so. That is Amazon's endgame (like Uber).... They just pretend for the politics and publicity sake. Most of the jobs at this 2nd headquarters will be for the engineers and designers who will make it possible.
2
The corporate jobs make over 100k in salary...that's hardly a bad thing, unless the work they are doing is way more than 8 hours a day.
The warehouses, well I am familiar with them since I work at one. Working at them will be a thing of the past in 10 years.
The warehouses, well I am familiar with them since I work at one. Working at them will be a thing of the past in 10 years.
3
It snows too much in Denver. And what they smoke and drink in Denver is not very healthy while making you higher in the thin air.
1
This falls into the "any job is a good job" category, except it ain't so.
Not by a long shot.
Not by a long shot.
5
I think Toronto wins over any place in the U.S. However, I do not think Canadians are as fond of corporate extortion to get taxpayer assistance, which is really corporate welfare. I could be wrong because Canada gives away everything to the oil and gas industry.
9
I think Canada in general has a higher probability. Why create a second HQ other than to mitigate risk, and what better way to mitigate risk than to select a separate country (not to mention US companies have been putting larger operations in Canada for US Tax reasons).
That said, I think there may be better locales than Toronto that like every major city has higher costs. Halifax with its port, or Edmonton/Calgary or Winnipeg with central locations come to mind.
That said, I think there may be better locales than Toronto that like every major city has higher costs. Halifax with its port, or Edmonton/Calgary or Winnipeg with central locations come to mind.
1
Respectfully, this Canadian and many others have no interest in living in Halifax, Edmonton/Calgary, or heaven forbid Winnipeg. Vancouver/Lower Mainland and Toronto are the only cities that can attract the kind of talent on the scale that Amazon requires.
1
Depends what they are doing. If it is logistics focused, as centralized location like Winnipeg or Edmonton (and I suspect best of all, Halifax for shipping) may make sense.
Well educated work forces, are there, and in the meantime I have difficulty hiring top talent in Toronto, and how do you keep them when a house costs a million?
Toronto is definitely on the list though - we agree.
Well educated work forces, are there, and in the meantime I have difficulty hiring top talent in Toronto, and how do you keep them when a house costs a million?
Toronto is definitely on the list though - we agree.
And why was Memphis not one of the remaining cities listed?? Memphis got the FedEx World Headquarters, International Paper headquarters, a strong and educated job markets, great universities, and easy access to major highways.
1
But finally Jeff will go where he gets the maximum tax breaks...it's very simple folks!
9
Bezos should grab the site in northern Virginia near the Springfield metro that has been considered for the new F.B.I. headquarters for years - with nothing happening.
Fairfax County Virginia has the most educated work force in the country with half the residents holding a bachelor's degree and 25% of women and 32% of men holding a graduate degree. At the same time, Fairfax County attracts lots of immigrants, the majority of residents in Fairfax County are non-white and 37% speak a language other than English at home. Plus over 30% of the residents are under 18 - soon ready to move into the labor force plus the good lifestyle in Fairfax County would attract more people to the area to work for Amazon. Fairfax County public schools have been ranked among the best in the country for the last 40 years. Lastly, Fairfax County still has plenty of undeveloped land.
Lastly, Bezos just purchased one of the nicest homes in Washington D.C., the old Textile Museum, 15 minutes from Fairfax Country, connected with D.C. by bus and subway service.
Fairfax County Virginia has the most educated work force in the country with half the residents holding a bachelor's degree and 25% of women and 32% of men holding a graduate degree. At the same time, Fairfax County attracts lots of immigrants, the majority of residents in Fairfax County are non-white and 37% speak a language other than English at home. Plus over 30% of the residents are under 18 - soon ready to move into the labor force plus the good lifestyle in Fairfax County would attract more people to the area to work for Amazon. Fairfax County public schools have been ranked among the best in the country for the last 40 years. Lastly, Fairfax County still has plenty of undeveloped land.
Lastly, Bezos just purchased one of the nicest homes in Washington D.C., the old Textile Museum, 15 minutes from Fairfax Country, connected with D.C. by bus and subway service.
3
Well said.
In addition, Arlington and Alexandria, two suburbs outside of D.C., were recently named by niche.com (https://www.niche.com/places-to-live/search/best-cities-for-young-profes... as among the top 5 places to live for young professionals. So, if you're looking for a metro with lots of highly educated professionals, good public transportation, and a cool vibe, the D.C. area could be the place to be.
Amazon won't pick anything too close to the west coast, which is where they are already. Also, Denver is a "first strike" target, so Amazon HQ2 won't survive to provision, just in case, Denver has no port/it's inland.
It's got to be a place which is geographically different from the west coast. A port city. I'm betting Baltimore, or near there, or Boston, or near there.
It's got to be a place which is geographically different from the west coast. A port city. I'm betting Baltimore, or near there, or Boston, or near there.
3
Yes. I'm sure Baltimore's sky high crime rate will be a big sell attracting people to join Amazon.
2
One big problem with Denver, from Amazon's point of view: no strong presence of top level software engineers. Even the article that is linked to here, supposedly demonstrating the strong technology presence in Denver, really concedes the opposite. The software engineers quoted talk about how much better it is to be big fish in a little pond -- the little pond being Denver/Boulder.
And the best university in the area is UColorado Boulder -- which is maybe ranked around 30th in the nation. And the trip between Denver and Boulder is substantial.
Maybe Amazon mostly cares about being the dominant tech employer in its region, and will bring all of its workers from the outside, expecting that they won't be able to change jobs without moving far away. In that case, Denver would work out great.
But that isn't how most other tech companies have flourished. In almost all cases, they go where the talent and innovators already are, or they tend to languish on the vine.
And the best university in the area is UColorado Boulder -- which is maybe ranked around 30th in the nation. And the trip between Denver and Boulder is substantial.
Maybe Amazon mostly cares about being the dominant tech employer in its region, and will bring all of its workers from the outside, expecting that they won't be able to change jobs without moving far away. In that case, Denver would work out great.
But that isn't how most other tech companies have flourished. In almost all cases, they go where the talent and innovators already are, or they tend to languish on the vine.
5
Well if it is not well known it should be. As long as you bring money you can get anything you want in Oregon. The contortions people will enthusiastically engage in to dissociate and make literally anything seem friendly and right and within the rules is beyond any other place I have ever seen.
You can get anything you want there.
I still think the two ports Florence and Coos Bay are the best places especially if you want a long term home where you can get the infrastructure built to suit plans and needs. The people will come, there is no reason for a large population center and Portland will be only a couple to 4 hours away by road if they ever get around to building proper highways so the economy can do well. In most of those areas cited that is a normal commute time for a lot of people.
You can get anything you want there.
I still think the two ports Florence and Coos Bay are the best places especially if you want a long term home where you can get the infrastructure built to suit plans and needs. The people will come, there is no reason for a large population center and Portland will be only a couple to 4 hours away by road if they ever get around to building proper highways so the economy can do well. In most of those areas cited that is a normal commute time for a lot of people.
1
I think being close to a port will be significant long run for environmental and monetary efficiency.
1
Cost of housing in Denver is over the top crazy high. That is a negative as far as I can tell.
The mayor of Albuquerque in his always astute manner, suggested that it would be the perfect place for HQ2. Not really, but nice try Mayor Berry.
This will be interesting to follow.
The mayor of Albuquerque in his always astute manner, suggested that it would be the perfect place for HQ2. Not really, but nice try Mayor Berry.
This will be interesting to follow.
3
I am rooting for Indianapolis which doesn't have a world class airport but does have a better universities than Denver...just saying.
2
Why exactly was Salt Lake City not on the short list? Seems like a great place for business and lots of educated people and room for growth.
The SLC area is a more livable and viable area. More than say, Boston.
The SLC area is a more livable and viable area. More than say, Boston.
3
SMOG.
The SLC valley is already choked with SMOG from what it has now. More people isn't going to improve that and soon it will be a major detraction to living there. The issue is the geography. Oh yea what about water? It is a desert.
The SLC valley is already choked with SMOG from what it has now. More people isn't going to improve that and soon it will be a major detraction to living there. The issue is the geography. Oh yea what about water? It is a desert.
7
If Bezos goes with his gut I would expect Austin to be his choice. He has Texas in his blood (childhood rearing and a BIG Ranch) and guts (Blue Origin) and business investments (Whole Foods). It's the natural landing site for his next big move.
In addition, the perfect parcel of land is sitting awaiting him on the south shore of Lady Bird Lake: The Statesman Tract (the Cox newspaper family owners' land they are looking to develop); or somewhere along the new Waller Creek development district. So he can do another big downtown HDQ like in Seattle.
Adding more infrastructure would be an issue in any likely chosen city. Austin doesn't need a wake up call but rather an incentive to make decisions and follow through on multiple plans that are nearly shovel ready. Adding more gates and international flights at the airport would be easy. Already happening.
Is Austin big corporate capable? Just ask Michael Dell and Apple's Tim Cook and IBM CEO Ginni Rometty. The area is Dell HDQ and both Apple's and IBM's #2 location. And nearly every other big tech company has a fast growing presence here - from Alphabet (Google) to Facebook and Intel to recently announced Merck - and almost countless others.
So what's to stop him? Not his heart and gut. Not his current investments. I say if/when Austin makes the top five list, it will be the chosen one.
In addition, the perfect parcel of land is sitting awaiting him on the south shore of Lady Bird Lake: The Statesman Tract (the Cox newspaper family owners' land they are looking to develop); or somewhere along the new Waller Creek development district. So he can do another big downtown HDQ like in Seattle.
Adding more infrastructure would be an issue in any likely chosen city. Austin doesn't need a wake up call but rather an incentive to make decisions and follow through on multiple plans that are nearly shovel ready. Adding more gates and international flights at the airport would be easy. Already happening.
Is Austin big corporate capable? Just ask Michael Dell and Apple's Tim Cook and IBM CEO Ginni Rometty. The area is Dell HDQ and both Apple's and IBM's #2 location. And nearly every other big tech company has a fast growing presence here - from Alphabet (Google) to Facebook and Intel to recently announced Merck - and almost countless others.
So what's to stop him? Not his heart and gut. Not his current investments. I say if/when Austin makes the top five list, it will be the chosen one.
10
Fascinating analysis and fun to read.
But everyone knows the perfect place for Amazon's HQ2 is Vancouver, BC because they also require an openness to skilled immigrants and Canada is an open, welcoming country to the high-tech, highly educated workers Amazon most needs. Sorry Denver, you're a lovely place too. But.
But everyone knows the perfect place for Amazon's HQ2 is Vancouver, BC because they also require an openness to skilled immigrants and Canada is an open, welcoming country to the high-tech, highly educated workers Amazon most needs. Sorry Denver, you're a lovely place too. But.
2
hahaha no. vancouver competes for many of the same workers as seattle does, has an insane cost of living, doesn't generate enough developers from its universities to be a viable option and the local government is not the friendliest to business. Amazon already has a sizable office there - it doesn't really make sense to expand so greatly.
5
This seemed like it'd be a very interesting article but really, it was over before it got started- in the 2nd paragraph you removed the likeliest candidate of all, Toronto. Making it a US-centric contest might be more fun for your readers, but it's not what Amazon specified and not what they'll focus on. I agree Denver would be the best American choice- I lived there for a decade- but it can't match Toronto in the diversity, brain power, transport, infrastructure, and most of the other criteria laid out by Amazon (not to mention how much easier it'll be to attract and bring in global talent to Canada vs Trump's America).
18
They did explain why they didn't analyze Canadian cities. But Toronto also has a major housing-affordability issue that could work against it.
6
It won't truly be a second HQ. The wealth of the HQ will remain in Seattle. The corporate officers will remain their as well as the civic engagement that corporate HQs bring.
This will be a large facility. But it will be the first to experience cutbacks in middle management and development when Amazon like any company faces some hard times.
The cities that Amazon wants already have fairly strong growth, they already have paid to build a quality of life that Amazon now wants discount access to. There is no reason for these cities to bargain bin themselves for this.
I remember when Denver was oil and gas. When the economy went bad in the 80's. It has been decades of largely diversifying the economy to get to the city that Denver is today. An all eggs in one basket approach is the last thing this city needs. If Amazon wants to locate in Denver and pay all the costs to do so, fine.
I bet the same can be said for the other cities on its list.
This will be a large facility. But it will be the first to experience cutbacks in middle management and development when Amazon like any company faces some hard times.
The cities that Amazon wants already have fairly strong growth, they already have paid to build a quality of life that Amazon now wants discount access to. There is no reason for these cities to bargain bin themselves for this.
I remember when Denver was oil and gas. When the economy went bad in the 80's. It has been decades of largely diversifying the economy to get to the city that Denver is today. An all eggs in one basket approach is the last thing this city needs. If Amazon wants to locate in Denver and pay all the costs to do so, fine.
I bet the same can be said for the other cities on its list.
5
Detroit. There are a lot of techies in the metro area, plus plenty of hard-working people who are looking for jobs, real jobs. Some currently patch together two jobs just to support their family.
What’s more, the COL is also right in metro Detroit. Additionally, there is a major airport. There are also plenty of major universities in and around Detroit.
What’s more, the COL is also right in metro Detroit. Additionally, there is a major airport. There are also plenty of major universities in and around Detroit.
12
Just one more thing which would make Detroit ideal, unlike some here on the West Coast, Detroiters are not accustomed to being cuddled. So, Amazon would get a tough and reliable workforce.
7
Detroit would be ideal if urban revitalization were any kind of factor. And they're practically giving away the land, making government handouts to a half-trillion-dollar company a bit less urgent.
But "hardy Detroiters" is probably not relevant; it's not like Amazon will be hiring displaced autoworkers, they'll be bringing in IT folks from top universities, just like in Seattle.
But "hardy Detroiters" is probably not relevant; it's not like Amazon will be hiring displaced autoworkers, they'll be bringing in IT folks from top universities, just like in Seattle.
3
I would definitely prefer Chicago for the second one. And, ruling out cities such as Chicago and Philadelphia, only for not meeting a standard, would be very straight forward with this problem. An optimal is needed to decide where it should be built.
Somewhere between Hartford, Springfield, Worcester, Providence, and Boston would do it. That's an arc of cities with all the resources Amazon needs. And with close proximity to the ocean and mountains for their many employees who would want that. However the cost of doing business with Amazon is likely to be high.
2
Hartford is essentially bankrupt, as is the state. CT has lost GE and Aetna HQs -- there is not a change Amazon will look at it.
1
I have lived in or visited most of the cities in the Midwest and South on the list. Few have the cultural cache that Amazon may be looking for. Sorry, Nashville and Pittsburgh, even if Bon Appetit or CN Traveller has anointed you the next hot things, your "it" factor can't compete with the cities on the coasts. Miami has a lot going for it, but techies and tans usually don't mix. DC could be a contender, but it is still a company town.
This is a fun exercise, but in the end, I am pretty sure one of the usual suspects will be selected (Chicago, Boston or NYC). It's just a matter of pretending this is a real race in order to extract the biggest incentives from competing cities. I'll throw my choice in the hat. When most people think of NYC, they think of Manhattan. But Queens has room to spare for development, hosts two major airports, has excellent mass transit options, is the most diverse area on the planet and is still more affordable than Manhattan. The workers could surf at Rockaway Beach in the morning, have awesome Tibetan, Thai, Greek, etc., etc. for dinner and be at JFK or LGA in minutes!
This is a fun exercise, but in the end, I am pretty sure one of the usual suspects will be selected (Chicago, Boston or NYC). It's just a matter of pretending this is a real race in order to extract the biggest incentives from competing cities. I'll throw my choice in the hat. When most people think of NYC, they think of Manhattan. But Queens has room to spare for development, hosts two major airports, has excellent mass transit options, is the most diverse area on the planet and is still more affordable than Manhattan. The workers could surf at Rockaway Beach in the morning, have awesome Tibetan, Thai, Greek, etc., etc. for dinner and be at JFK or LGA in minutes!
3
Denver is too expensive (and transport stinks).
13
I 'd hate to recommend the Koch brothers over weed but take another look at Kansas City's (weather, airport, quality of life).
2
Pretty East Coast to remove all the midwestern cities at the quality of life decision point. Maybe Amazon won't be so foolish.
7
Please, not Denver. Enough growth here for years already. But really, Omaha? Gross. The middle of nothing. Too conservative. Too Bible Belt. Too dull.
But, it isn't Denver, so, hurray for Omaha!
But, it isn't Denver, so, hurray for Omaha!
11
Lots of great things about Omaha/Lincoln. Please, Amazon, stay out of Denver. We are already overwhelmed by wealthy hipsters. "The cost of living is still low enough to make it affordable" is true only relative to S.F. or N.Y., not to those of us who have lived here for years and made it what it is and are being priced out. Stay away, Amazon.
9
Nooo! Denver, this would be the nail in your coffin. Don't do it!
8
Lots of tech-savviness in Detroit, Amazon. Don't let anyone fool you there.
8
I can see that. Its still a blank slate with the bones already there to handle a big industry.
3
I have an advanced degree from Stanford and worked at a successful Tech company in Denver. We left for NY after repeatedly hearing "why don't you go back to Mexico." I have never set foot in Mexico. Mr. Bezos, please don't move to a racist city.
16
New York City has the most segregated schools in the nation.
3
When you consider quality of life issues, and we are talking about millennials, possession of marijuana, under an ounce, in Virginia will draw a two year felony charge, while it is accepted and open in Colorado and California. Just saying...
2
For some reason you left Toronto out of your analysis. Many consider the city the frontrunner as it easily passes each requirement with flying colours.
6
Try York St. during rush hour - sorry, I meant rush 3 hours.
Too many taxes -- DOA.
1
"...and workers can easily get around-and out of town..."
Clearly, the writer(s) of this article have not been in Boston lately.
Including Boston on this short list is ridiculous.
And as if housing costs, (and shortages), aren't already high enough in the Boston metro region.
Take a ride on the T, during winter time or when it's blazingly hot and humid.
It's not a viable transportation system in 2017. Nobody in their right mind would want to relocate to Boston today.
Clearly, the writer(s) of this article have not been in Boston lately.
Including Boston on this short list is ridiculous.
And as if housing costs, (and shortages), aren't already high enough in the Boston metro region.
Take a ride on the T, during winter time or when it's blazingly hot and humid.
It's not a viable transportation system in 2017. Nobody in their right mind would want to relocate to Boston today.
7
I know where you can go Amazon -- nowhere near me! Bad enough that you eviscerate local businesses, now you want a local community to pay for your presence? Whoever "wins" you will regret it.
9
Sooooo wrong. Living in/near Seattle I can tell you Amazon realizes the short-comings of its western location. It's learned a thing or two from watching FedEx create a hub. Bet on Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, Lousiville, Charlotte.
Watched Bezos and remember the guessing around what would be the second TAB on the Amazon home page when all they sold were books.
I'm betting on Pittsburgh.
Hope you have the guts to model all OUR guesses. And go read 'The Undoing Project.'
Watched Bezos and remember the guessing around what would be the second TAB on the Amazon home page when all they sold were books.
I'm betting on Pittsburgh.
Hope you have the guts to model all OUR guesses. And go read 'The Undoing Project.'
6
Michael Hancock will, no doubt, do whatever he has to do to get even more development in Denver, however irresponsible or unwise. He's in the pocket of developers and is willing to throw our taxpayer dollars at Bezos or anybody else who will take his money. However, most of us who live here, and love our quality of life, don't want Amazon, Bezos or anymore of Hancock's crony developers here. We love our city, are suffering because of the irresponsible development and skyrocketing housing prices, and the last thing we want is Amazon's 2nd headquarters here!
It would also be a refreshing, responsible, and smart-marketing thing to do for Bezos to choose someplace like Detroit, where a giant Amazon headquarters would bring people to an area desperately in need of the economic development. Amazon needs to be a better example of good corporate citizenship. This is their chance!
It would also be a refreshing, responsible, and smart-marketing thing to do for Bezos to choose someplace like Detroit, where a giant Amazon headquarters would bring people to an area desperately in need of the economic development. Amazon needs to be a better example of good corporate citizenship. This is their chance!
14
completely agree, well said.
2
A dark horse candidate: WEST VIRGINIA. If Amazon is truly progressive they should build their 2nd headquarters in the heart of Appalachia where land is cheap, potential labor pool plenty, and abundant natural outdoor recreation. Not to mention it's proximity to world class universities surrounding it to attract young talent.
PICK WEST VIRGINIA.
PICK WEST VIRGINIA.
4
Denver is probably the least diverse of any of the presented options. Not a bad choice if your intent was an all white office, but I'd hope amazon would choose a better path.
8
Marty Walsh also said on Thursday that Boston is “not going to get into a bidding war with another city over something like this.”
Something like this? You mean an opportunity of a lifetime to transform not only your city but your state? If "something like this" is not the time to roll out the red carpet Marty, what is?
Something like this? You mean an opportunity of a lifetime to transform not only your city but your state? If "something like this" is not the time to roll out the red carpet Marty, what is?
2
Well you might have a point as long as you can continue to dissociate that it is Business that should be appealing to cities and not the reverse in a right minded universe. The "bidding war" scumbaggery that has been unleashed by GOP de-regulation is a large part of how our nations infrastructure and manufacturing base was destroyed.
5
Oh, yeah! When I think about cities that are easy to get around in, DC comes right to mind. The Washington area is a day-long slog of clogged freeways, no parking and under-performing public transit. Get a clue!
3
Since Amazon moves products, not people, wouldn't centrally located Memphis -- the HQ of FedEx -- make sense?
1
Just don't do what Trump, Ryan and Co. did with FoxxCom in Wisc., ie put the company on corporate welfare funded by the citizens of Wisc.
Offer Amazon a fair, competitive deal but don't put them on corporate welfare.
Offer Amazon a fair, competitive deal but don't put them on corporate welfare.
7
Toronto-Waterloo-Hamilton triangle.
5
St Catherines!
So the solution is to find the most amenable place possible and have Amazon turn it into another San Fransisco, forcing it's current residents to flee for more affordable pastures. Enticing Amazon into your city with tax incentives is like paying the aliens from "Independence Day" to strip-mine your planet.
8
Minneapolis is much more compatible with Seattle in cultural values than Denver. Minnesota is a much more progressive state than Colorado so there is not the rural/urban split in Minnesota that so polarizes Colorado politics.
12
The winner is wherever Jeff Bezos gets the biggest tax breaks, corporate and personal. If Monaco was somehow on the list, he'd be there.
4
We are talking a transportation hub for the 21st century and genius comes up with Denver Colorado. No wonder the USA is in trouble. I love Denver but since we are talking Amazon lets talk utility not aesthetics. Let us talk shipping and receiving. Let us talk ships going to Asia and rail and highways across North America. Let us talk climate change and the one city benefiting dramatically from climate change.
Let us talk about Winnipeg Manitoba where after centuries of search finds itself with easy access to the Northwest Passage, Let us talk about a flat open prairie that has a well educated workforce, a diverse and educated population and a city that exists because it is a transportation hub for rail, water and highway and is right in the center of North America.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/amazon-headquarters-winnipeg-1.42...
Let us talk about Winnipeg Manitoba where after centuries of search finds itself with easy access to the Northwest Passage, Let us talk about a flat open prairie that has a well educated workforce, a diverse and educated population and a city that exists because it is a transportation hub for rail, water and highway and is right in the center of North America.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/amazon-headquarters-winnipeg-1.42...
2
Too snowy and too many taxes. Pass .. FAST.
1
Bing,
Less snow than Toronto.
Lets talk about taxes. When you don't have to buy health insurance and send your children to private school and your cost of living is rather low why do you want to compare apples and oranges. Winnipeg is not Toronto or Vancouver and Winnipeg has always had an extraordinary cultural scene and low cost housing making it a haven for artists and those not raking in the big bucks..
Less snow than Toronto.
Lets talk about taxes. When you don't have to buy health insurance and send your children to private school and your cost of living is rather low why do you want to compare apples and oranges. Winnipeg is not Toronto or Vancouver and Winnipeg has always had an extraordinary cultural scene and low cost housing making it a haven for artists and those not raking in the big bucks..
1
Big Congrats!, BIg Kudos!, Big Ups!, Denver. In today's topsy-turvy world this appears to be one choice that has been exceptionally vetted and approved and made. Denver has a tremendous number of things going for it and after decades of striving to grow into being a Big and Big-Time City, it now has surpassed San Francisco in that respect.
About the only thing that Denver lacks is an ocean, and with the West Coast collapsing, it may yet have an ocean coastline or be within a state's drive of one.
It took a long time for the vision and dreams and hopes of the Lamms, Schroeders, Harts, Wirths, Penas and all those young progressives of the early 70's to come true, but as they say Rome was not built in a day. It takes 30 to 40 years to build a great city. Federico Pena told us to "Imagine a great city." We no longer have to imagine.
In the meantime, Seattle is trying to be a great city, but it is only at the stage of where Denver was 20 to 30 years ago. It will take those 20 to 30 years for Seattle to mature, become smooth and mellow, and flow smoothly. In the meantime, Seattle has to hope that it somehow survives the collapse of most of the West Coast into the Pacific Ocean via earthquake and tsunami. At some point Amazon and others are going to have to pick up stakes put down in Seattle and go somewhere else like Denver anyway.
About the only thing that Denver lacks is an ocean, and with the West Coast collapsing, it may yet have an ocean coastline or be within a state's drive of one.
It took a long time for the vision and dreams and hopes of the Lamms, Schroeders, Harts, Wirths, Penas and all those young progressives of the early 70's to come true, but as they say Rome was not built in a day. It takes 30 to 40 years to build a great city. Federico Pena told us to "Imagine a great city." We no longer have to imagine.
In the meantime, Seattle is trying to be a great city, but it is only at the stage of where Denver was 20 to 30 years ago. It will take those 20 to 30 years for Seattle to mature, become smooth and mellow, and flow smoothly. In the meantime, Seattle has to hope that it somehow survives the collapse of most of the West Coast into the Pacific Ocean via earthquake and tsunami. At some point Amazon and others are going to have to pick up stakes put down in Seattle and go somewhere else like Denver anyway.
1
Wouldn't it be better if they picked a place where job growth is currently weak? How would that hurt them? That would do the most good for the country.
6
Rochester has a lot of underemployed techies. It would move up that list if tech-worker availability were the criterion instead of job growth.
Amazon's obligation is to do the most good for itself. It has no obligation to "do the most good for the county."
1
Not Denver- no water, housing is not affordable, and I-25 is a mess--traffic is way over capacity. Plus I don't want my taxes to pay for corporate welfare that's not likely to pay for itself.
2
Another criteria: where do twenty-somethings go for vacation, especially repeat trips? If part of Amazon's strategy includes recruiting a younger and adventurous workforce with quality of life, then living in or near a desirable play place fits.
A quick review of various internet sites for recommended Millennial vacation and travel shows these cities (from the Upshot candidate list):
Nashville
Portland
Denver
Austin
SFC
NYC
San Diego
Las Vegas
Miami
A quick review of various internet sites for recommended Millennial vacation and travel shows these cities (from the Upshot candidate list):
Nashville
Portland
Denver
Austin
SFC
NYC
San Diego
Las Vegas
Miami
1
Forget everything but the tax breaks. All this other stuff like QOL will be used as as added incentives but those will take a back seat on the last row to tax breaks.
Texas you look good.
Texas you look good.
1
Agree Atlanta has all the criteria, as you said...except the transportation infrastructure: No lights on the streets, interstate are below standard and public transportation is lacking. The people who manage the transportation in Atlanta should be replaced...they have no insights.
2
Interesting and fun article. Just as with the Olympics, Boston doesn't want this much growth and change, in addition to the fact that it probably can't find enough space. But I think Amazon would prefer a city farther east than Denver. I wouldn't be surprised if the metro DC area wins in the end.
2
Although the NYT failed to include Canadian cities in the analysis, I believe that there are a couple (at least) that merit serious consideration. Not the least of their advantages is an avoidance of most, if not all of the social drama that US society seems prone to, an excellent quality of life and a solid base of a well-educated, diverse, outward-looking workforce coupled with a world class educational system.
8
Denver has two issues: 1) Denver has a problem with having sufficient water supply, and it will only get worse. Adding 40,000-50,000 workers and their families to the population already there will create a great strain on water supply. 2) The Denver area is becoming increasingly expensive. In fact, a lot of people are moving from the eastern slope over to the western slope. A large new facility with attendant work force will add pressure to housing and living costs.
Denver is rather out of the way internationally (although digital work will mitigate this) and travel to Amazon's other facilities (like in Ireland) will be difficult.
Denver is rather out of the way internationally (although digital work will mitigate this) and travel to Amazon's other facilities (like in Ireland) will be difficult.
12
"Metro areas that have actually lost jobs (Tucson; Birmingham, Ala.) and those that have grown more sluggishly are out of the running."
I don't understand why the authors decided to cut cities according to these criteria. I agree with some of the commenters below that municipalities should be cautious and treat being the "winner" of this contest as a potentially mixed blessing. Bezos will demand freebies and concessions of all kinds, in a way not all that different from a sports franchise owner demanding concessions or else threatening to leave a city, and real estate prices will shoot through the roof in whichever place is chosen.
I don't understand why the authors decided to cut cities according to these criteria. I agree with some of the commenters below that municipalities should be cautious and treat being the "winner" of this contest as a potentially mixed blessing. Bezos will demand freebies and concessions of all kinds, in a way not all that different from a sports franchise owner demanding concessions or else threatening to leave a city, and real estate prices will shoot through the roof in whichever place is chosen.
4
Why would you locate any business, let alone a huge business, to a city that has demonstrated its inability to attract and retain people?
I vote for Detroit. The eastern geographical location is perfect and it's time to invest in its rebirth--which could be spectacular.
32
These decisions are fairly path dependent, contingent on the prioritization of the criteria. I think the first cull in this article was overbroad - eliminating Minneapolis, Pittsburgh, and Cleveland does not make much sense in terms of the incentives and affordable prime space these locations can offer, and taking into consideration the availability of STEM university grads. An Amazon HQ can induce a lot of workforce growth in and of itself, including necessary infrastructure like increased direct flights. Cost of living and quality of life canbe quite high in these second-tier non-coastal metropolises
7
Good local universities are helpful to produce workers--especially fresh college grads. But those workers are very portable--the most portable feature on this list. You can't move transportation or quality of life from one city to another (though the right investments can improve what's there). But you can attract workers from Seattle, San Francisco, New York, Boston and DC if you provide similar urban amenities, lots of outdoor life, good weather and cheaper housing. Denver housing prices seem inflated to those already here, but to people from the cities I just listed they are a bargain.
A primary factor for convincing thousands of highly paid and highly educated people to move is the quality of education for their kids. Boston and Northern Virginia top your short list.
The amount of freebies Amazon gets will be important but not the deciding factor. The project will be a failure if they can't get people to move to the new location.
The amount of freebies Amazon gets will be important but not the deciding factor. The project will be a failure if they can't get people to move to the new location.
2
Not only does Boston not have the space, their roads and subway/commuter rail are already straining. They'll probably tell Amazon what they remind us of on a near daily basis: everything in Boston is historic and world class.
7
Amazon has stretched Seattle's resources thin. People talk about traffic and housing, but the city's public schools are busting at the seams and property is so expensive that the school district can't quickly open new ones. The state legislature has been found in contempt of the state supreme court for not fully funding education. I would think that public school quality and funding would be a big issue for people relocating, but it hasn't stopped people from coming to Seattle.
The other priority which will be on Amazon's list but not stated is Where Will Amazon's Bosses Want to Relocate? They say the department heads will get to decide for themselves and you need make a very strong case to get thousands of people to relocate voluntarily. Boston would seem the logical first choice, but will they bid enough? Northern Virginia seems a close second, but will Seattle folks want to move to a state with southern social norms? Another option is Southern Maryland. Property prices are cheaper, you get pretty much the same talent pool as VA, and Bezos already has a home very near by in DC.
2
Virginia is a purple state. Northern Virginia is VERY diverse and a pretty blue area, and the school systems (especially Fairfax County) are world class. Do not confuse Southwest Virginia with Northern Virginia. They could be two different states altogether (I wish NOVA could be its own state. We are the economic powerhouse of Virginia). There are a lot of highly educated tech people in NOVA.
2
You missed the best spot in America. The Omaha - Council Bluffs metropolitan area. Combined population is over a million, 11 colleges and universities, intersection of Interstate highways (I29 & I80), great space to build on the Iowa side right off I29 and I680, no hurricanes or earthquakes, wonderful airport and who could be a better neighbor that Warren. They have good public schools, high quality healthcare, affordable housing and a favorable business environment. Sorry Denver.
10
Denver's quality of life really isn't that great. I'd argue they fail the "get out of town" requirement. Have you ever been to Denver? Colorado only has two seasons. Construction and traffic. It takes 3 hours to get anywhere. Maybe New York finds this normal but not me.
I'd also say the argument about labor pools is relatively myopic. The author knocks out a number of cities without much consideration. Denver's internal growth appears to have plateaued. If you're really arguing that Denver is appealing due to relative housing cost, you're already assuming you'll need to import the talent. In which case, the existing labor doesn't really matter anyway. You either need to grow your talent or attract them. The goal is finding a place that will draw future talent away from other locations.
So back to the first point: Quality of life relative to compensation is the determining factor for employees *if* they decide to apply for a job at Amazon at all. After that, the question is really about strategy for the business. What incentives will the state provide? Where are the advantages and disadvantages of a geographic location? Portland's proximity for example is both a blessing and a curse. Meanwhile, the right incentive package might land a business in Kansas City when they would have preferred Boston.
Essentially, I wouldn't bank money on Amazon landing in Denver just yet. Fun thought exercise but probably wrong.
I'd also say the argument about labor pools is relatively myopic. The author knocks out a number of cities without much consideration. Denver's internal growth appears to have plateaued. If you're really arguing that Denver is appealing due to relative housing cost, you're already assuming you'll need to import the talent. In which case, the existing labor doesn't really matter anyway. You either need to grow your talent or attract them. The goal is finding a place that will draw future talent away from other locations.
So back to the first point: Quality of life relative to compensation is the determining factor for employees *if* they decide to apply for a job at Amazon at all. After that, the question is really about strategy for the business. What incentives will the state provide? Where are the advantages and disadvantages of a geographic location? Portland's proximity for example is both a blessing and a curse. Meanwhile, the right incentive package might land a business in Kansas City when they would have preferred Boston.
Essentially, I wouldn't bank money on Amazon landing in Denver just yet. Fun thought exercise but probably wrong.
24
Hear, hear! Construction and traffic because of over population and insane housing prices. Also: Water usage is a big problem for Denver and the West and adding more people, traffic and houses to that equation is an automatic No.
5
Louisville--the only problem is infrastructure--traffic is a bad thing during certain times. However, it is a fixable solution if the right people start thinking.
2
Kentucky has some of the worst funded public pension/OPEB in the nation. Do you really think Amazon wants to be a taxpayer paying off that legacy debt?
The problem is you are using an exclusionary criteria (i.e., who meets the minimum of all required criteria). Is this what Amazon will do or will they use a compensatory criteria? E.g., your first statement excluding places like Pittsburgh implies that if you fail to miss on one criteria you do not get to compensate by doing much better (e.g., area university graduates on another). So what would happen with other decision making rules rather than the single one you have chosen? My guess is that places you excluded would come back into the fold. Also, since Amazon wants more bidders it will be deliberately vague as to what the structure of their decision making is and, indeed, may not actually decide on it until after the fact.
17
The easy answer is Vancouver. Quite easy.
First you have an exchange rate where presently there is an 18% difference. On billions of dollars of income, that adds up.
Secondly it is a metropolitan ( one million or more ) area that is spread out and has lots of space for a massive complex.
Thirdly it has a massive port ( with competitive rates ) as more and more products are imported from the orient and beyond.
Lastly it has a talented workforce ( cheaper as well ) that are dynamic and hardworking. There is also the draw of working in the area as that talent will want to live there with their families.
No brainer.
First you have an exchange rate where presently there is an 18% difference. On billions of dollars of income, that adds up.
Secondly it is a metropolitan ( one million or more ) area that is spread out and has lots of space for a massive complex.
Thirdly it has a massive port ( with competitive rates ) as more and more products are imported from the orient and beyond.
Lastly it has a talented workforce ( cheaper as well ) that are dynamic and hardworking. There is also the draw of working in the area as that talent will want to live there with their families.
No brainer.
6
It's a little pricey in Vancouver and has land constraints. Lovely place though and great for people who like Seattle.
1
Housing in Vancouver is way too expensive.
2
Seattle has no state income tax. Canada has too many taxes. Would never happen, in a trillion years.
1
Denver is a great choice. Space, central, good infrastructure, educated workforce but its already getting pricey from 20 yrs of growth and there are increasing restrictions on development.
I would have gone with Indianapolis. Major research universities, a wide range of affordable housing, lower cost of living, beautiful airport, great ease of getting around well developed infrastructure.
Denver is beautiful but it's closer to plateauing (no pun intended). Indianapolis has more upswing potential and more flexibility.
I would have gone with Indianapolis. Major research universities, a wide range of affordable housing, lower cost of living, beautiful airport, great ease of getting around well developed infrastructure.
Denver is beautiful but it's closer to plateauing (no pun intended). Indianapolis has more upswing potential and more flexibility.
4
I suspect that Indianapolis lost significant ground over "culture of inclusion," because of the Mike Pence party's anti-gay, pro-Christian, voter-suppressive legacy. However, that's the elected state government, and to the extent to which Hoosiers have succeeded in fighting back against regressive social policies, the fight has been led not just by activists but by business people in Indianapolis.
And Indy is very lacking in the area of public transportation. Rail of even moderate speed between Bloomington and Indy and between Columbus IN and Indy could create an interesting triangle.
And Indy is very lacking in the area of public transportation. Rail of even moderate speed between Bloomington and Indy and between Columbus IN and Indy could create an interesting triangle.
8
North of Indy has great quality of life and the commute is still pleasant and quick for people with cars, even though public transportation is lacking. Amazon already has a warehouse here, and having Amazon would be a great incentive to jump start public transportation, which is always on the verge of becoming real. Most of urban Indiana can't stand sharia Pence either.
2
The story almost gets it right - but not quite - the authors have lumped together DFW into just 'Dallas'. We think Ft. Worth will be where Amazon's HQ2 locates, due to all the advantages of North Texas, but not the hassles of Dallas or traffic log-jam of Austin.
Ft. Worth's Alliance corridor has plenty of land to offer to build a new campus environment, or Class A downtown space availability, whichever Amazon would want.
As well, Ft. Worth is centrally located to Amazon's space exploration subsidiary, Blue Origin, and to Amazon's new Whole Foods acquisition, based in Austin. And a little-known fact is that there are more tech workers in the DFW area than in Austin :)
Besides all this, Bezos's brother went to college at Ft. Worth's TCU, with Jeff Bezos himself going to school in Houston in his early years, working summers on his grandparents' Texas ranch.
The additional advantage to choosing Ft. Worth would be Bezos and Amazon would really get a chance to put their stamp on an area's development, with their every move influencing how things proceed, instead of choosing another Seattle situation, where Amazon followed behind other Titan tech companies who were in Seattle first.
There's something unique about Ft. Worth's corporate biz environment; after all, Warren Buffett has chosen to buy up 3 of Ft. Worth's corporations.
Oh, and when it came to the GOP'ers in Austin and their bathroom bill, Ft. Worth's school board told the GOP'ers to take a hike :)
Ft. Worth's Alliance corridor has plenty of land to offer to build a new campus environment, or Class A downtown space availability, whichever Amazon would want.
As well, Ft. Worth is centrally located to Amazon's space exploration subsidiary, Blue Origin, and to Amazon's new Whole Foods acquisition, based in Austin. And a little-known fact is that there are more tech workers in the DFW area than in Austin :)
Besides all this, Bezos's brother went to college at Ft. Worth's TCU, with Jeff Bezos himself going to school in Houston in his early years, working summers on his grandparents' Texas ranch.
The additional advantage to choosing Ft. Worth would be Bezos and Amazon would really get a chance to put their stamp on an area's development, with their every move influencing how things proceed, instead of choosing another Seattle situation, where Amazon followed behind other Titan tech companies who were in Seattle first.
There's something unique about Ft. Worth's corporate biz environment; after all, Warren Buffett has chosen to buy up 3 of Ft. Worth's corporations.
Oh, and when it came to the GOP'ers in Austin and their bathroom bill, Ft. Worth's school board told the GOP'ers to take a hike :)
4
Bezos will ultimately pick a place that has some of the cultural appeal of the pacific north west, and aside from Austin, TX is about as far from that as possible. Austin of course lacks the infrastructure needed for a major corporation.
5
DFW certainly fails any test of inclusiveness/acceptance/diversity. And certainly not a destination most millennials would choose to relocate to.
5
Tim - If Bezos wanted a clone of the pacific northwest, he wouldn't be looking for new environs.
Chris - Texas is turning purple, led by the 'blue' major cities; again, there are more tech workers in DFW than in Austin.
Texas Progressives welcome Progressives from Cali, and Seattle as well :)
Chris - Texas is turning purple, led by the 'blue' major cities; again, there are more tech workers in DFW than in Austin.
Texas Progressives welcome Progressives from Cali, and Seattle as well :)
Detroit would be a wonderful pick, if Amazon is interested in helping to bring this great city into the post-industrial future. It has an excellent international airport, plenty of space (!), is affordable and full of the opportunity and culture for idealistic young people. This would require significant investment in its transportation, education, and public services infrastructure. Seems like a challenge Bezos would relish taking on.
40
I have enjoyed visiting Detroit. It also has Ann Arbor and Toledo with the university and Toledo's great art museum nearby. Cincinnati/Covington is another really enjoyable place, and Louisville is very enjoyable as is Pittsburgh. All of these are really nice locations if you're not an East Coast snob. I doubt Amazon, being West Coast, will buy into this Upstart nonsense.
2
Silicon Valley hates unions. Will never, ever happen.
1
When I first heard of Amazon's plans to build a second corporate headquarters Austin immediately came to mind. In recent years Austin has become a major technology hub and it meets many of Amazon's requirements.
However, as the author pointed out the lack of mass transit is Austin's major weakness. In addition the water supply will be a big problem in the future as the Edwards Aquifer is already having problems supplying water for Austin and San Antonio.
San Antonio would also make a great location for Amazon's headquarters. Of Texas' major cities it is probably best poised to handle the growth that Amazon's headquarters would bring. Sadly San Antonio also suffers from the same weaknesses as Austin, the lack of mass transit and problems with the water supply in the future.
Many Americans do not know that the corridor between Austin and San Antonio is projected to grow to the point where two cities are going to merge into one big urban megaplex:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/joelkotkin/2016/10/13/the-next-great-americ...
Too bad Texas is backwards when it comes to mass transit, if we had a viable rail link between these two cities I could live in San Antonio and commute to Austin for work.
Amazon could then pick a site midway between two great cities, creating a new city in the process. Amazon Texas has a nice ring to it, however, the lack of a rail link between Austin and San Antonio means that this will never happen.
However, as the author pointed out the lack of mass transit is Austin's major weakness. In addition the water supply will be a big problem in the future as the Edwards Aquifer is already having problems supplying water for Austin and San Antonio.
San Antonio would also make a great location for Amazon's headquarters. Of Texas' major cities it is probably best poised to handle the growth that Amazon's headquarters would bring. Sadly San Antonio also suffers from the same weaknesses as Austin, the lack of mass transit and problems with the water supply in the future.
Many Americans do not know that the corridor between Austin and San Antonio is projected to grow to the point where two cities are going to merge into one big urban megaplex:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/joelkotkin/2016/10/13/the-next-great-americ...
Too bad Texas is backwards when it comes to mass transit, if we had a viable rail link between these two cities I could live in San Antonio and commute to Austin for work.
Amazon could then pick a site midway between two great cities, creating a new city in the process. Amazon Texas has a nice ring to it, however, the lack of a rail link between Austin and San Antonio means that this will never happen.
1
Amtrak goes between Austin and San Antonio, but there is only one train per day in each direction.
6
I did mention viability, didn't I? If you do the math one train in each direction hardly makes it viable.
First you have get up at 6 AM so that you can fight your way to downtown San Antonio to catch the train, no other stops until you hit San Marcos, about 55 miles up the road.
The trip to Austin takes two and half hours, so even if I left SA at 7 AM I would not make it to Austin until 9:30 AM, most jobs want you there at 8 AM.
Then you have to get to the office from the train station, most of the big companies are out in the suburban areas not well served by the bus system.
Then you have to make it back to the train station by 6:30 PM to catch the return trip home. A trip that takes 3 and 1/2 hours so you finally get back to SA at 10 PM.
Then you have to make it home from downtown SA so you can get to sleep so that you can repeat the process the next day.
Time-wise that works out to 6 hours per day commuting, 30 hours per week, 120 hours per month. Money-wise it is quite a bargain at $28 per day, $140 per week, $560 per month.
Compare that to the northeastern US, where you can go between major urban centers (New York, Washington and Philadephia) more easily with multiple trips per day.
Just because a single trip exists between the two cities in question hardly invalidates my argument that Texas is bass-ackwards when it comes to mass transit.
Driving saves you time, with traffic it can take three to four hours per day but monthly gas costs are similar.
First you have get up at 6 AM so that you can fight your way to downtown San Antonio to catch the train, no other stops until you hit San Marcos, about 55 miles up the road.
The trip to Austin takes two and half hours, so even if I left SA at 7 AM I would not make it to Austin until 9:30 AM, most jobs want you there at 8 AM.
Then you have to get to the office from the train station, most of the big companies are out in the suburban areas not well served by the bus system.
Then you have to make it back to the train station by 6:30 PM to catch the return trip home. A trip that takes 3 and 1/2 hours so you finally get back to SA at 10 PM.
Then you have to make it home from downtown SA so you can get to sleep so that you can repeat the process the next day.
Time-wise that works out to 6 hours per day commuting, 30 hours per week, 120 hours per month. Money-wise it is quite a bargain at $28 per day, $140 per week, $560 per month.
Compare that to the northeastern US, where you can go between major urban centers (New York, Washington and Philadephia) more easily with multiple trips per day.
Just because a single trip exists between the two cities in question hardly invalidates my argument that Texas is bass-ackwards when it comes to mass transit.
Driving saves you time, with traffic it can take three to four hours per day but monthly gas costs are similar.
By ignoring Canadian cities, the writers render their list incomplete. The data needed for Canadian cities is all available online. Canada is not Mongolia, so please try again and this time include Canadian cities.
Amazon's tender document says it is looking for a city with an "overall high quality of life." Canada has 3 cities among the top five most liveable cities in the word, according to this year's ranking by The Economist. No US cities are close. So Canada is obviously worth serious consideration.
So far the American media has tended to ignore Canada in its rankings of Amazon contenders. Its not surprising, given that Canadians see themselves as generally ignored in the US media.
Or, some have written that Amazon would never choose a city outside the US. Why not? About a third of Amazon's revenue comes from outside the US and that will only grow.
Being outside the US hasn't hurt other companies. Apple makes its phones in China and keeps its profits offshore and yet it hums along. The Ford or Chevy bought in the US likely has parts made offshore and labour from Mexico and Canada, and that won't change. Its an interconnected world.
Amazon's tender document says it is looking for a city with an "overall high quality of life." Canada has 3 cities among the top five most liveable cities in the word, according to this year's ranking by The Economist. No US cities are close. So Canada is obviously worth serious consideration.
So far the American media has tended to ignore Canada in its rankings of Amazon contenders. Its not surprising, given that Canadians see themselves as generally ignored in the US media.
Or, some have written that Amazon would never choose a city outside the US. Why not? About a third of Amazon's revenue comes from outside the US and that will only grow.
Being outside the US hasn't hurt other companies. Apple makes its phones in China and keeps its profits offshore and yet it hums along. The Ford or Chevy bought in the US likely has parts made offshore and labour from Mexico and Canada, and that won't change. Its an interconnected world.
32
I actually believe that Bezos had canada in mind because
1) he specifically mentioned "North American" city, not American city and
2) What with the administration policy with immigrant tech workers, Amazon needs a plan B for Trump's madness...
1) he specifically mentioned "North American" city, not American city and
2) What with the administration policy with immigrant tech workers, Amazon needs a plan B for Trump's madness...
2
What about Monterrey. A big industrial North American city with easy access to rapidly-growing US states and abundant quality labor at a price Bezos likes. The local regulatory officials may be accommodating (not sure about the unofficials). Perhaps a few Bezos-inspired tweaks in the current NAFTA negotiations will put it over the line.
1
Winters only for polar bears. Taxes that could choke a horse.
NEXT!!
NEXT!!
1
Except Denver is squarely in the West. Plus they should locate where the labor market is soft. Northeast makes more sense. Baltimore, Trenton, Hartford, Bridgeport, Rhode Island, Scranton, Syracuse, Springfield, Worcester, Manchester NH. Any of these cities could use a lift. Amazon should not demand unreasonable concessions from cash strapped cities and states regardless of where they locate.
12
Syracuse isn't nearly big enough to support Amazon, and most of the cities on the list aren't as well, save for Baltimore and maybe Trenton because of its proximity to Philadelphia and NYC.
Setting my bias for Buffalo aside, I think Pittsburgh would be an interesting choice and I disagree with its elimination from this list. It seems to have a now relatively stable economy and is focused on robotics, something I am sure Amazon is interested in for warehouse automation.
Setting my bias for Buffalo aside, I think Pittsburgh would be an interesting choice and I disagree with its elimination from this list. It seems to have a now relatively stable economy and is focused on robotics, something I am sure Amazon is interested in for warehouse automation.
7
Pittsburgh has Google and some self driving car stuff, plus great food/fun, Carnegie Mellon and Pitt. Ann Arbor is going great guns on automation/ self driving buses as well, and so close to Detroit.
Rhode Island isn't a city, but sure, okay....
Why another '"HQ" in west? Does that make sense?
8
Whenever any person or corporation is considering NC it's necessary to advise them of the known and unknown discriminatory laws and common laws.
The "bathroom law" is the most well known.
The law that affected me I discuss on my change.org petition.
http://chn.ge/1fhM4si
If Amazon cares about it's employees, they'll choose a state that won't harm them.
The "bathroom law" is the most well known.
The law that affected me I discuss on my change.org petition.
http://chn.ge/1fhM4si
If Amazon cares about it's employees, they'll choose a state that won't harm them.
27
This decision boils down to one factor only - freebies.
Whoever gives Bezos the most free stuff wins. Some poor bunch of taxpayers are going to be handing over a few hundred million to close this deal. Hopefully your city will resist.
Whoever gives Bezos the most free stuff wins. Some poor bunch of taxpayers are going to be handing over a few hundred million to close this deal. Hopefully your city will resist.
105
Except you get 50,000 extremely highly paid residents paying taxes to support your local economy. But otherwise you had a point...
Donald gave Carrier $7 million to save 600 jobs. Surely 50,000 jobs are worth $100 million.
Seriously? Tens of thousands of employees paying three levels of taxes will more than off-set any "free stuff". Hundreds of spin-off supporting businesses with thousands of employees... well you get the general idea.
I would estimate over a hundred million starting year one of operation.
I would estimate over a hundred million starting year one of operation.
And don't forget that Denver has legal recreational cannabis sales, an obvious attraction for prospective employees from out of state.
7
Excluding Toronto may make this exercise useless. It has all that, plus Canada welcomes tech-worker immigrants with open arms.
57
Taxes too high. Buh-bye.
1
Canadian tax rates are often lower, and have been for a decade. Check Wikipedia, KPMG, PWC or many reports like this:
https://taxfoundation.org/how-much-lower-are-canadas-business-taxes/
https://taxfoundation.org/how-much-lower-are-canadas-business-taxes/
2
D'uh. Before I even looked down your article, I said Denver. the only drawback is it may be a bit too far West, when Amazon said it wanted somewhere more Eastern to counterbalance Seattle.
7
I had the same thought. When Hewlett-Packard was a thriving company, they chose locations that were within corporate jet travel in one hop from Palo Alto. So HP Fort Collins, CO came to be. It has been a great boon to that small city. There have been spinoffs into other local companies and corporate splits, and HP is still there.
If Amazon includes some regular workers from Seattle to tour the cities on a short list, Colorado's Front Range will have no problem competing. Two outstanding research universities. No doubt RTD will offer a light rail extension to the site chosen, along with the normal corporate bribes. The governor (could be Hickenlooper's crowning achievement), Denver mayor, other politicos, university presidents, et. al., need to be organized yesterday to make this happen.
50K jobs. 20 years to get there allows for rational growth and planning.
If Amazon includes some regular workers from Seattle to tour the cities on a short list, Colorado's Front Range will have no problem competing. Two outstanding research universities. No doubt RTD will offer a light rail extension to the site chosen, along with the normal corporate bribes. The governor (could be Hickenlooper's crowning achievement), Denver mayor, other politicos, university presidents, et. al., need to be organized yesterday to make this happen.
50K jobs. 20 years to get there allows for rational growth and planning.
7
You are silent about why you eliminated Philadelphia in the "quality of life" round. It has much lower median house price than any of the survivors other than Dallas, superior mass transit, and access to culture than any save Boston.
46
Why throw out Philadelphia?
Massively underfunded public pensions/OPEB with no plan. Why would Amazon sign up for to become a taxpayer for these legacy costs?
Crime. Commuter income tax. No legal cannabis. Political corruption. You ever try commuting on the Schuylkill?
Tasty cakes, pretzels and chees steaks can not make up for Philadelphia and Pennsylvania's numerous shortcomings.
Massively underfunded public pensions/OPEB with no plan. Why would Amazon sign up for to become a taxpayer for these legacy costs?
Crime. Commuter income tax. No legal cannabis. Political corruption. You ever try commuting on the Schuylkill?
Tasty cakes, pretzels and chees steaks can not make up for Philadelphia and Pennsylvania's numerous shortcomings.
1
+1 on Philadelphia, especially if they could find enough land near 30th Street Station / University to build. There's plenty of room at the navy yard, but the transportation isn't as good.
Very Good local public transportation
1 seat train ride center city to hub airport: PHL, 2 seat train ride to competing hub airport: EWR
Excellent and quick North East corridor connections via Amtrak
Proximity to capital: New York City 1.5 hrs and Wilmington, DE .5 hr
Proximity to capitol: Wash DC 2.5 hrs
High quality universities in city and vicinity
Low cost housing stock in city and in suburbs
Very walkable downtown
Lots of hip neighborhoods / Big foodie scene
Proximity to many of Amazon's northeast distribution centers.
Over 40 million people within 150 miles
Very Good local public transportation
1 seat train ride center city to hub airport: PHL, 2 seat train ride to competing hub airport: EWR
Excellent and quick North East corridor connections via Amtrak
Proximity to capital: New York City 1.5 hrs and Wilmington, DE .5 hr
Proximity to capitol: Wash DC 2.5 hrs
High quality universities in city and vicinity
Low cost housing stock in city and in suburbs
Very walkable downtown
Lots of hip neighborhoods / Big foodie scene
Proximity to many of Amazon's northeast distribution centers.
Over 40 million people within 150 miles
4
Philadelphia was eliminated at the outset of the article because of its weak job growth. The authors presumably intend no slight on the city's amenities -- it's a lovely place!
Eliminate Portland because it's so close to Seattle? That seems to be a selling point: very convenient.
2
The public transportation system doesn't service large sections of the city and suburbs, and I-5 can't support increased traffic.
2
Why is strong job growth a desirable thing for Amazon? Won't they get whoever they want where ever they are? What is "desirable" about Miami? It's awful.
8
Denver is a nice city although I have never been there. I still think Baltimore is a better choice. I don't think it would be difficult to put a parcel of property together that would meet the needs. Cost of living is probably close the being the lowest the east coast north of Richmond. Great transportation. Air, rail, sea and road. An hour from Washington, about 2 to Philly and another to NYC.
Years ago when I still had family in the Midwest, I would fly out of BWI to Chicago, about and hour and three quarters.
The reality is that Jeff Bezos isn't stupid and he's going to have the necessary land under contract in several places before and announcement is made. The prices of land nearby will increase dramatically once he tells us where he is going to build.
Years ago when I still had family in the Midwest, I would fly out of BWI to Chicago, about and hour and three quarters.
The reality is that Jeff Bezos isn't stupid and he's going to have the necessary land under contract in several places before and announcement is made. The prices of land nearby will increase dramatically once he tells us where he is going to build.
12
Decision processes like this are "path dependent." Juggle the order of various criteria, and you arrive at a different outcome.
10
Amazon's second headquarters will immediately transform any city for the better so it can open pretty much anywhere in the country. The city/state will offer tax breaks, create whatever infrastructure Amazon requires, and people will flock from near and far to get jobs. Cities are already rolling over like submissive dogs for the chance to land this deal and I don't blame them.
2
Or....why not take you wealth somewhere that could use it? A city in decline in need of an uplift. How about upstate NY? A Syracuse or a Buffalo?
Or a Detroit? Cincinnati? Flint, Michigan? Atlantic City? Allentown?
How about somewhere that could use a revival--not just in income equality and opportunity, but also in 21st century culture?
How about Jackson, Mississippi? Monroe, Louisiana? Imagine the cultural impact of a company like Amazon setting operation somewhere that could use a boost into our century?
Amazon is known as a company that has TOTALLY changed the way we live. It would warm my heart and then some if they would take a bit of social responsibility into account as they set up shop somewhere new. What they could do for a declining American city is invaluable--but also, what an example! What a leadership role to take into the new great American revival?
Folks--something has to change. Certainly our governmental leaders have absconded that responsibility, preferring instead to isolate the poor and uneducated. Imagine what it could do to bring the vibrancy of an Amazon somewhere where it;s needed.
......plus I am sure it's cheap. :-)
Or a Detroit? Cincinnati? Flint, Michigan? Atlantic City? Allentown?
How about somewhere that could use a revival--not just in income equality and opportunity, but also in 21st century culture?
How about Jackson, Mississippi? Monroe, Louisiana? Imagine the cultural impact of a company like Amazon setting operation somewhere that could use a boost into our century?
Amazon is known as a company that has TOTALLY changed the way we live. It would warm my heart and then some if they would take a bit of social responsibility into account as they set up shop somewhere new. What they could do for a declining American city is invaluable--but also, what an example! What a leadership role to take into the new great American revival?
Folks--something has to change. Certainly our governmental leaders have absconded that responsibility, preferring instead to isolate the poor and uneducated. Imagine what it could do to bring the vibrancy of an Amazon somewhere where it;s needed.
......plus I am sure it's cheap. :-)
93
Detroit, Atlantic City, Flint, Allentown... Cincinnati? I'm not a big fan of Cincinnati, but it's not in economic decline. Nine Fortune 500 companies are headquartered in Cincinnati, and the unemployment rate is 4%.
3
Read the story -- city population of one million is desired. No hick towns.
2
Buffalo isn't really a hick town. The extreme suburbs maybe, but Allentown, Elmwood Village, Kenmore, and more areas of the city and metro are becoming progressive as more people become educated and transplants and immigrants move in.
1
As a refugee from Seattle who moved to Philadelphia because I want to buy a house in the near future and prices are so ridiculous in the Seattle in large part due to Amazon, I hope you're right that my new home is off the list.
But your reasoning for dropping it doesn't make sense. Philadelphia may not currently have a huge tech sector as a percentage of the whole, but it is fairly significant. And more important it IS an education hub, home to UPenn, Temple, Penn St., Villanova and countless others. Right now most of those students head out to NYC or Boston after graduating but I'm sure the Philly Powers that Be would love to have them stay.
But your reasoning for dropping it doesn't make sense. Philadelphia may not currently have a huge tech sector as a percentage of the whole, but it is fairly significant. And more important it IS an education hub, home to UPenn, Temple, Penn St., Villanova and countless others. Right now most of those students head out to NYC or Boston after graduating but I'm sure the Philly Powers that Be would love to have them stay.
39
Penn State is 100 miles away from Philadelphia.
And I hate to tell you but as strong as Philadelphia's colleges are, they come in a distant second to Boston.
And I hate to tell you but as strong as Philadelphia's colleges are, they come in a distant second to Boston.
1
Don't forget that Amazon is a major entertainment company now, and Atlanta has major advantages in that department above all other "contenders" in the list. Probably the most diverse city choice too. Also, Atlanta's congestion isn't bad if you avoid suburban life and live closer in-town (where all younger techies live now anyway... see Ponce City Market) and public transit is good and affordable in-town... the Beltline completion is also making longer bike commutes a pleasant and safe reality for many others.
3
Don't be so quick to dismiss Chicago. We have a hub airport that can take you nonstop to almost anywhere. We are also a major port and railway hub. Our mass transit system allows workers to commute without depending on cars. And for those who prefer to live in one a suburban community our commuter trains even have free wifi.
We have world class universities, museums, parks, theater and restaurants. Did you know that Conde Nast Traveler just named Chicago best restaurant city in the US? Did you know that one of our public high schools was just named the best public high school in the country? Of course we have great private school options too.
Our city is beautiful and we have many lovely and fairly affordable neighborhoods. Lake Michigan is beautiful--driving down Lake Shore Drive today I saw plenty of sailboats and motorboats and the beaches were full of sunbathers and beach volleyball teams. The lakefront trail goes for miles for bikers and runners. I've heard that Mayor Emmanuel showed Mr. Bezos some large parcels of land that are right next to our glittering skyline. Techy millennials don't want long car commutes. They want to live and work right downtown. That's why companies like Allstate, Kraft Foods, MacDonalds, Motorola Solutions, Conagra, Suntory and others have abandoned suburbia and moved to Chicago.
In the early 20th century, Chicago was home to Sears, Montgomery Ward and Spiegel catalogs. What they did paved the way for what Amazon does today.
We have world class universities, museums, parks, theater and restaurants. Did you know that Conde Nast Traveler just named Chicago best restaurant city in the US? Did you know that one of our public high schools was just named the best public high school in the country? Of course we have great private school options too.
Our city is beautiful and we have many lovely and fairly affordable neighborhoods. Lake Michigan is beautiful--driving down Lake Shore Drive today I saw plenty of sailboats and motorboats and the beaches were full of sunbathers and beach volleyball teams. The lakefront trail goes for miles for bikers and runners. I've heard that Mayor Emmanuel showed Mr. Bezos some large parcels of land that are right next to our glittering skyline. Techy millennials don't want long car commutes. They want to live and work right downtown. That's why companies like Allstate, Kraft Foods, MacDonalds, Motorola Solutions, Conagra, Suntory and others have abandoned suburbia and moved to Chicago.
In the early 20th century, Chicago was home to Sears, Montgomery Ward and Spiegel catalogs. What they did paved the way for what Amazon does today.
27
.. and winters only polar bears would enjoy. Pass.
5
Seems odd to cut Dallas for congestion and not Boston. Have you taken the train from Logan downton? Have you taken the train from DFW downtown? Dallas wins that hands down, direct 45 minute ride versus a shuttle and a train switch in Boston.
It'll come down to Dallas, Austin, Denver, and Atlanta. Whoever offers the best package will take it. I think Austin is the frontrunner.
It'll come down to Dallas, Austin, Denver, and Atlanta. Whoever offers the best package will take it. I think Austin is the frontrunner.
7
I found myself rooting for Grand Rapids. What an impact it could have in Michigan rather than a place that is already saturated.
23
You must be kidding. The rents and housing prices have been skyrocketing in Denver for the last few years. Add Amazon to the mix and you'll have NYC housing prices in, well, a New York minute. The education problem is not a big issue: Charlotte is the best choice.
29
Denver is perfect! It is in the top 20 most educated cities in the country and flooded with young talent. It has fabulous festivals, professional sports teams ( Go Rockies!) great, and I do mean GREAT beer! The cost of living, while not dirt cheap, is not onerous. The public school system for young families is one of the best in the country. The mountains are calling, for those times when recreation takes the forefront. Colorado has the lowest obesity rate in the country AND the longest lifespan. Everything a young urban professional could ever want , all in one package.
11
Housing shortage. Denver isn't "perfect" at all. I don't know who's crowing about commute times either. Almost 70% of current Denver residents are looking to relocate to more affordable cities. According to local news sources. Take another look at Austin.
4
Interesting that state governments offering tax incentives to attract businesses is okay but countries doing the same deserve trade restrictions.
4
I would love to see Raleigh remain through the end. The airport is good and would improve to handle the area's growth. Great lifestyle (and I've lived in the Bay Area, Boston and NYC) and decent cost of living. The Triangle has no shortage of talent and more folks would stay upon graduation from NC State, UNC, and Duke if there were more jobs. And perhaps, with some encouragement, a modern public transportation system would be put back on the agenda of state and local government. Light rail please!!!
4
Denver could also offer Amazon with very competitively priced wind and solar energy - a priority in the RFP that wasn't highlighted in the maps.
9
Any state that doesn't offer legal recreational cannabis can save itself the cost of postage sending a proposal to Amazon. If you want to attract young professionals to your city you'd better have better things for your police to do than bust cannabis users.
Denver or Boston. Period.
Denver or Boston. Period.
1
Amazon wants to employ upwards of 50,000 people. That 50,000 more people on roads, in the mass transit system, and tens of thousands of new children needing classroom seats. I think there are few cities that can accommodate that strain on their infrastructure, and I'm not sure that this analysis adequately captured that fact.
67
Fairly flawed analysis as presumably the city of choice would hire from within its borders vs. relocating all 50,000 employees from far away, right??? Isn't that the point of locating HQ2 somewhere with existing tech talent in place already, etc.? I'm guessing very few relocations for new hires....
3
There are metro areas that have shrunk much more in the past 50 years and that could easily accommodate 50,000 more people. St. Louis is one of them. The city used to have 800,000 people and now has 300,000. We have plenty of room : ) And it's a great place to live. I hope Amazon comes here, even with the tax incentives we'll need to cough up to play ball.
2
It has lots of university talent as well, and is the #1 startup/incubator city.
I grew up in Boulder and Denver and have mixed feelings about this possible result of Amazon's search. On the one hand it's great to see my hometowns growing and attracting innovative companies like Amazon and Google. On the other hand I would hate to see Boulder and Denver turn into San Francisco. Boulder especially seems to be on a fast track to this kind of outcome given its stringent limits on property development and NIMBY-ism.
Boulder and Denver are gentrifying rapidly while housing prices and rents increase at an unsustainable rate thanks in large part to the influx of wealthy and highly educated workers/students combined with a lack of new housing. Amazon moving to the city will only worsen the problem until the housing issues have been addressed.
Boulder and Denver are gentrifying rapidly while housing prices and rents increase at an unsustainable rate thanks in large part to the influx of wealthy and highly educated workers/students combined with a lack of new housing. Amazon moving to the city will only worsen the problem until the housing issues have been addressed.
48
We lived on Colorado's Front Range from 1992-2013. In the 21 years we were there, we saw a population explosion. When we moved to Colorado, the state had a little over 3 million people, and it was said at the time, that there were more cows than people. When we left in 2013, there were over 5 million people. What was missed in your assessment was water, or the lack there of. Sure, it's a nice place to live, but is it really responsible to add more people to an area that is already stressed? And if the water situation is not bad enough, there are the wildfires to consider now. I do not have fond memories of breathing smoky air and seeing bits of ash floating through my backyard.
I hope Amazon considers climate change and sustainability when setting up their new headquarters.
I hope Amazon considers climate change and sustainability when setting up their new headquarters.
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Denver has an assured water supply that the rest of the Front Range cities envy. Water conservation is increasing, everywhere in the West, faster than population growth. I recommend that you read John Fleck's "Water is for Fighting Over: and Other Myths about Water in the West" for an up-to-date assessment.
For all the hoo-hah about Denver .. it is still, in the middle of nowhere. AMZN already has a lot of that, with SEA. It needs to be closer NYC/WashDC, IMHO. And NoVa still has fewer unions.
5
But where will those 50,00 people live? Won't they end up east of I-25? That's where the affordable housing is. Of course, that's where there's fracking too. When we closed on each of our two houses, we were told we did not own any of the mineral rights under our house. And, at the time, surface water could not be collected in rain barrels. It was made clear to us that the water that fell in our yard and ran off our driveway and down our gutters was already spoken for by states that are downstream.
We lived through a drought there, and could only water our lawn, garden and trees on odd numbered days. There were rent-a-cops who drove around neighborhoods, looking for people watering, ready to give out tickets.
The summer of 2012 was it for us. 62 days over 90 degrees with very limited rainfall. When we moved to Colorado, we did not need A/C. In 2002 we had to install central air.
Thanks for the reminder of the old saying: Whiskey's for drinking. Water's for fighting!
We lived through a drought there, and could only water our lawn, garden and trees on odd numbered days. There were rent-a-cops who drove around neighborhoods, looking for people watering, ready to give out tickets.
The summer of 2012 was it for us. 62 days over 90 degrees with very limited rainfall. When we moved to Colorado, we did not need A/C. In 2002 we had to install central air.
Thanks for the reminder of the old saying: Whiskey's for drinking. Water's for fighting!
1
Anybody who thinks getting around Boston is easy for those without cars should think again. Public transit is expensive and infrastructure needs work. This is a national problem.
As a person living within a few blocks of "the most desirable real estate in the world" I am appalled by the rate of new skyscraper growth on the ocean front in a time of rising seas and increasing extreme weather. Yes, GE is planning for a first floor that is entirely submersible.
And the income inequality is staggering. Ordinary folk can no longer afford decent housing. Some 450 square foot apartments went up for auction and the bids ran about $2100 a month, a couple of years back.
Denver, I agree, seems a better option. But Boston is certainly a lovely and lovable city with lots of clean air and a reasonable government.
As a person living within a few blocks of "the most desirable real estate in the world" I am appalled by the rate of new skyscraper growth on the ocean front in a time of rising seas and increasing extreme weather. Yes, GE is planning for a first floor that is entirely submersible.
And the income inequality is staggering. Ordinary folk can no longer afford decent housing. Some 450 square foot apartments went up for auction and the bids ran about $2100 a month, a couple of years back.
Denver, I agree, seems a better option. But Boston is certainly a lovely and lovable city with lots of clean air and a reasonable government.
6
But what about Providence
But what about Providence? Is housing more reasonable there?
I agree w/your comment on old transit infrastructure. We have similar problems in NYC. People fed up w/ it (and some want to get out, finding smaller cities very appealing -we have over 8 mil in NYC, 18 mil in metro area). But do Amazon people in WA take public transit? I had impresssion they drove. So the kind of people who would end up working there may not even care about public trans.
/
But what about Providence? Is housing more reasonable there?
I agree w/your comment on old transit infrastructure. We have similar problems in NYC. People fed up w/ it (and some want to get out, finding smaller cities very appealing -we have over 8 mil in NYC, 18 mil in metro area). But do Amazon people in WA take public transit? I had impresssion they drove. So the kind of people who would end up working there may not even care about public trans.
/
2
I think Dallas may beat out Denver. I was recently in Denver, and the air quality is truly horrendous. The traffic in the Denver metro area is at least as bad as Dallas'. Denver is also less aesthetically appealing than most of Dallas (notwithstanding the vague outline of the flatirons through the smog), though relatively close to attractive places. Denver's international airport is even more of a PITA than Dallas'. And Dallas has a more extensive and thriving arts scene, and a good range of housing choices affordable for young professionals.
6
What you saw was smoke from Pacific Northwest wildfires. Denver's air pollution is vastly better than a few decades ago.
1
Yes, yes, please go to Dallas, or anywhere else but Denver.
1
Jeff Bezos - with his shaved head - requires only one thing. Like any good Robber Baron he cares only who will pay him the most so he can pretend to "create a few jobs".
It's YOUR hard-earned taxpayer money he wants to steal, ladies and gentlemen. Tell him to use all the tax-evasion money he's hidden overseas to for his new "headquarters". Hold your local and state elected officials' feet to the fire and tell them to stop giving away YOUR money.
Make Jeffrey pay to be part of your community or you will become the next Detroit when his ventures are no longer profitable enough so he pulls out.
TELL JEFF BEZOS TO PAY FOR HIS OWN HEADQUARTERS AND TAX HIM ON THE REVENUE HE GENERATES.
It's YOUR hard-earned taxpayer money he wants to steal, ladies and gentlemen. Tell him to use all the tax-evasion money he's hidden overseas to for his new "headquarters". Hold your local and state elected officials' feet to the fire and tell them to stop giving away YOUR money.
Make Jeffrey pay to be part of your community or you will become the next Detroit when his ventures are no longer profitable enough so he pulls out.
TELL JEFF BEZOS TO PAY FOR HIS OWN HEADQUARTERS AND TAX HIM ON THE REVENUE HE GENERATES.
150
I agree. Could not believe how much NYC paid Goldman Sachs when it threatened to move to NJ (and who in their right mind would believe Goldman would ever move main ops to Jersey).
4
What does a shaved head have to do with ANYTHING? Instead of whining, why not compete with Amazon? Too much work or risk?
4
In the real world there are compromises, trade-offs, pros/cons, etc. It's not as simple as you would hope in your slight rant. Simply put, shareholders want profits, not just Bezos. And what does his shaved head have to do with anything you're talking about? Any smart City Administration would hopefully make a calculated offer to Amazon based projected tax revenue vs. tax concessions, and the market dictates the outcome. That's America. Competition is almost always a good thing when played on a level field.
Don't undersell Philly - it's the second fastest growing tech labor market in the US over the past 13 years. There's plenty of urban space, lower cost of living than many places listed here, and tons of amenities.
Personally, I also think the author cut Charlotte NC too easily. Charlotte seems to me just as attractive as Denver.
Personally, I also think the author cut Charlotte NC too easily. Charlotte seems to me just as attractive as Denver.
37
I was also wondering about Philly. Much lower cost of living than NYC (tho still easy to get to NYC or DC); big air transportation hub, etc.
10
You could say the same thing about Pittsburgh. Multitude of universities (including CMU), very affordable housing, Beautiful airport which was wasted when USAir (now part of American) moved it's hub out. Interstate access, rail access, lots of room for growth! Much better than Philadelphia--the airport is a hole (except the international terminal) and already overly congested and too expensive.
22
Shhhh. Quite, both of you.
I just moved to the Philadelphia from Seattle because of the ridiculous housing prices caused in good part by Amazon's growth. Don't ruin Philadelphia now, too.
I just moved to the Philadelphia from Seattle because of the ridiculous housing prices caused in good part by Amazon's growth. Don't ruin Philadelphia now, too.
11
There is one criteria you forgot about because of course it's not something Amazon is going to mention to the press but will most assuredly be a major factor in their decision: corporate tax regimes.
NYC and Boston would be scrapped from the list for that reason alone.
NYC and Boston would be scrapped from the list for that reason alone.
9