Everyone but the staunchest Trump loyalists/Republicans know that the Republicans weren't transparent is developing their bill but this fact isn't relevant to them in their land of alternative facts. Nice to see the numbers but they don't believe in data so...
" While lawmakers often draft major legislation in private..."
...Yes for Republicans...as ALEC ( American Legislative Exchange Council )usually deliver the already drafted Legislation they want voted on and passed , to a lawmaker behind the close doors of his office or perhaps a courier document delivery service to their residences.
In most cases, calling these Politicians "Lawmakers" is being far too generous as the legislation is written for them and all they have to do is press a vote "Yes" button when it comes up for a vote in Congress!
That's all they do.
Oh...except receive money from the Donors behind whose best interests will be served by the legislation they will be passing.
"Money for Nothing ...Kicks (backs) for Free."
- (almost) Dire Straits
...Yes for Republicans...as ALEC ( American Legislative Exchange Council )usually deliver the already drafted Legislation they want voted on and passed , to a lawmaker behind the close doors of his office or perhaps a courier document delivery service to their residences.
In most cases, calling these Politicians "Lawmakers" is being far too generous as the legislation is written for them and all they have to do is press a vote "Yes" button when it comes up for a vote in Congress!
That's all they do.
Oh...except receive money from the Donors behind whose best interests will be served by the legislation they will be passing.
"Money for Nothing ...Kicks (backs) for Free."
- (almost) Dire Straits
GOP claims that Democrats tried to ram Obamacare down our throats were as preposterous seven years ago as they are today. The difference between then and now is how starkly the participation in their process contrasts with that of the Obama era.
While I hope that Republican supporters will remember the lies foisted on them by their party's leadership, I doubt this will happen. Republicans' explicit disdain for figures and graphs will mostly continue to insulate them from reality, just as usually does.
As some may recall, Obamacare was debated for about a year. Many complained about how long it took. Careful what you wish for: if McConnell had his way, the Senate would have passed a bill before anyone had a chance to see it. It's not hard to see why: once people started looking at it, they realized how much harm it would do.
The House did no better: they wanted to hold a vote before the CBO was able to analyze the effects of their bill. Again, it is not hard to guess the reason for their urgency: scrutiny would inevitably reveal their bill to be an assault against the literal health of the nation.
I can't decide which is more outrageous: that Republicans would seriously countenance bills that would result in more than 20 million fewer people with health insurance, or that they cannot pass a bill once in power after scores of repeal votes during the Obama years. How long must we wait for GOP supporters notice the putrid swamp in their own backyards and resolve to drain it?
While I hope that Republican supporters will remember the lies foisted on them by their party's leadership, I doubt this will happen. Republicans' explicit disdain for figures and graphs will mostly continue to insulate them from reality, just as usually does.
As some may recall, Obamacare was debated for about a year. Many complained about how long it took. Careful what you wish for: if McConnell had his way, the Senate would have passed a bill before anyone had a chance to see it. It's not hard to see why: once people started looking at it, they realized how much harm it would do.
The House did no better: they wanted to hold a vote before the CBO was able to analyze the effects of their bill. Again, it is not hard to guess the reason for their urgency: scrutiny would inevitably reveal their bill to be an assault against the literal health of the nation.
I can't decide which is more outrageous: that Republicans would seriously countenance bills that would result in more than 20 million fewer people with health insurance, or that they cannot pass a bill once in power after scores of repeal votes during the Obama years. How long must we wait for GOP supporters notice the putrid swamp in their own backyards and resolve to drain it?
Thank you for putting this information on the front page. None of this has been secret. But we live in times when REAL facts must be repeated, out loud and very clearly.
3
calling what the republicans call a health plan is an enormous stretch
4
I recently had double cataract surgery.
So, how much does it cost out of pocket to get double catract surgery and cure glaucoma in both eyes? Answer: $14.156, if you have no insurance.
I paid: $2661.97
This includes a couple pre-exams. So, effectively I paid for the equivalent cost of lens implants out of pocket, they are $1450 each.
$8400 was for 3 hours in the surgery center. The surgeries themselves were $2500 each or so, including the lens replacements.
This was under my employer provided Platinum health insurance.
For the same thing, in Canada? $0 cost to me and cut the above prices by about 40 - 60%.
So, with Trump, if I lose my employer provided health care, my eyes will not be covered until I reach 65, as they are a "pre-existing" condition. So, If I have a retinal detachment, or worse, I pay out of pocket or go blind.
I delayed my retirement, until I am 65, so I did not have to take a chance.
This is our health care system. This is what our politicians gave us, Republican and Democrat, working in secret and with the health care industrial complex. What if I could not afford the $2600, I ended up paying? Why do I have to wait for nearly 8 weeks to find out what I really owe?
Obama failed America, just like Trump will fail America. Oh yeah, I woldl get less insurance coverage under Obaamcare, but pay $800/month. Trump, even less coverage, for about $1200/month.
Single Payer is a no brainer, except in the greedy US of A.
So, how much does it cost out of pocket to get double catract surgery and cure glaucoma in both eyes? Answer: $14.156, if you have no insurance.
I paid: $2661.97
This includes a couple pre-exams. So, effectively I paid for the equivalent cost of lens implants out of pocket, they are $1450 each.
$8400 was for 3 hours in the surgery center. The surgeries themselves were $2500 each or so, including the lens replacements.
This was under my employer provided Platinum health insurance.
For the same thing, in Canada? $0 cost to me and cut the above prices by about 40 - 60%.
So, with Trump, if I lose my employer provided health care, my eyes will not be covered until I reach 65, as they are a "pre-existing" condition. So, If I have a retinal detachment, or worse, I pay out of pocket or go blind.
I delayed my retirement, until I am 65, so I did not have to take a chance.
This is our health care system. This is what our politicians gave us, Republican and Democrat, working in secret and with the health care industrial complex. What if I could not afford the $2600, I ended up paying? Why do I have to wait for nearly 8 weeks to find out what I really owe?
Obama failed America, just like Trump will fail America. Oh yeah, I woldl get less insurance coverage under Obaamcare, but pay $800/month. Trump, even less coverage, for about $1200/month.
Single Payer is a no brainer, except in the greedy US of A.
7
This is what happens when Americans trust 100 people in Washington to decide the life, liberty and happiness of 300 million. It is insane. And why people continue to put trust in this model of democracy is simply baffling.
3
Having read a large number of comments to this article, I cannot understand why so many who are opposed to this so-called health care bill are excoriating the New York Times for the headline, of all things!
The Republicans and the RIGHT are a non-stop chorus of "but Obama did the ACA in secret!" The Times is taking that ridiculous "argument" and using it to construct reality. The headline suggests, "Hey, we are going to contrast and compare and see who comes out ahead."
In my opinion, this headline may even draw in more moderate conservatives to actually read the article, look at the graphs and see the truth. If they had lead off with something aggressive to the Right, only Democrats/Liberals, and maybe a few Independents would read it.
I thank the Times for putting this idiotic claim by the right under the microscope.
The Republicans and the RIGHT are a non-stop chorus of "but Obama did the ACA in secret!" The Times is taking that ridiculous "argument" and using it to construct reality. The headline suggests, "Hey, we are going to contrast and compare and see who comes out ahead."
In my opinion, this headline may even draw in more moderate conservatives to actually read the article, look at the graphs and see the truth. If they had lead off with something aggressive to the Right, only Democrats/Liberals, and maybe a few Independents would read it.
I thank the Times for putting this idiotic claim by the right under the microscope.
9
The Republican Party is strictly "Dark Net" --- The GOP boys have kept racism, inequality, economic exploitation, destruction of unions, grifting the middle class, cheating at marbles, killing the elderly and poor, sexism, destruction of our planet, destruction of democracy with money, theft, cruel-distorted use of the Constitution and the judiciary, and forever destroying Little League in the white suburbs.
Once again a big, fat thanks to the GOP sneakers.
Once again a big, fat thanks to the GOP sneakers.
3
Why would you want to bring a healthcare law like this into the light of day so everyone can see your plan to throw seniors into the street when they can't pay their nursing home care after exhausting their savings, let people with disabilities die, let people in the middle of their cancer treatments die, let CHILDREN die (interesting for a party that claims to be pro-life...I guess they don't mean life when you are already living it! Best to hide what you are doing when you have no shame.
7
I guess I am picky......have you noticed that nearly everything you read about today about Donald Trump begins with these two words: "Trump Reversed......."
1
What what seems to be lost on many is that Max Baucus took Charles Grassley around the country where they held numerous public forums discussing how to structure the ACA. Baucus then accommodated every problem that Grassley had in the bill itself but Grassley STILL voted against it. Secretive? Hardly!
6
This debate is idiotic. What's more important is how the Obamacare funding mechanism rapes the successful. A honest bill would ask all Americans to support each other's healthcare, not slam only the few with a new obligation. Disgraceful.
Hmm, I'd say the disgraceful thing is that so many of our citizens are in debt, sickness and poverty so that the wealthy can get more wealthy.
And speaking of idiotic: "rapes the successful?"
And speaking of idiotic: "rapes the successful?"
12
Paying higher taxes because you make more money is "rape." Isn't that just what income tax is...based on your income?
8
The thing that slays me is the number of witnesses heard: 200 vs. 18. As if these 13 men know more than physician's groups, hospital associations, mental health providers, etc. who are, in the main, totally opposed to the Republican proposal. Many right-leaning pundits rationalized that we needed to operate government more like a business. In any business, leaders seek out expert opinions before making decisions on any significant project. Even those that don't affect the welfare of millions of citizens.
8
Secrecy or no, the Democrats tried to get healthcare to as many people as possible while compromising with Republicans, to the point of absorbing the conservative template touted by The Heritage Foundation for two decades and put into practice by the Republican Governor of Mass., one Mitt Romney. In contrast the Republicans have worked tirelessly to take healthcare away from millions of their own constituents without even allowing their own moderate, or female, comrades into the rooms, never mind the hated Democrats. Secrecy is just a minor infraction in this process. The "original sin" remains greed.
4
As usual, you are comparing apples to oranges to fit your narrative. The ACA was an entirely new bill that was massive in scope. The Republican revision was a modification to that massive bill. So, of course, there would be fewer public sessions.
It makes massive changes to a massive bill. Same diff.
6
LOL, as if that's the reason for the lack of hearings. Keep telling yourself that, Brian.
8
*facepalm*
The Republicans are more secretive because they must satisfy contributors who resent paying taxes to support other people's medical care but most of the people who vote Republican actually could not afford health care if they had to pay for it on their own in a free market. But Democrats have gone about writing health care legislation with little Republican input until the very end stages of the process. It needs to be a bi-partisan process because it's complex and it affects everyone.
Democrats working on the Affordable Care Act incorporated more than 150 Republican amendments into the final bill signed by Obama. I don't seem to recall Republicans even deigning to talk with some of their members in the Senate about the current bill, let alone Democratic senators. Bipartisanship goes both ways, friend.
I happened to be home from work - sick - on the day that an equal number of Republicans and Democrats spent the entire day on TV, invited by Obama, discussing and debating, in very courteous, professional terms, the pros and cons of various aspects of government provided healthcare.
It was no surprise that the points raised by one side were concerned with MONEY, while the other side talked only about NEED.
Now, we have progressed to more straightforward and less congenial times, and there is no discourse.
Same stuff, different day.
It was no surprise that the points raised by one side were concerned with MONEY, while the other side talked only about NEED.
Now, we have progressed to more straightforward and less congenial times, and there is no discourse.
Same stuff, different day.
4
The Democrat's relative openness was what helped to destroy public faith in the ACA and limit the ability of Obama to accomplish its goals. This is not ancient history. In March of 2009, the first of the tea party inspired demonstrations occurred in the Mall in Washington,DC. The energy behind that mass gathering was opposition to Obama and opposition to what would become known as Obamacare. Guess what? The legislation had not even been proposed at that point. The roaring debate in Washington at the time was around the debate about changes in America's health care plans.
President Obama also conducted an open, live televised session with members of Congress, including Republicans. Instead of active participation in proposing any improvements in the system or the legislation, he was met by a verbal replay of campaign commercials, Republican talking points. The meeting wound up being a grand opportunity for them to find added points of attack on the new president.
The coup de grace in all of this was the announced willingness of Republicans in the Senate to meet with Democrats to see if they could "make a deal" on health care. No surprise, after a couple of months or so, the Republicans announced: No deal. Time and public patience wasted.
Obama and the Democrats were played. Trying to cooperate, they walked into a huge trap that helped Republicans win the House in 2010 and the Senate in 2014. Seeing their "accomplishment", the Republicans moved to secrecy this time.
President Obama also conducted an open, live televised session with members of Congress, including Republicans. Instead of active participation in proposing any improvements in the system or the legislation, he was met by a verbal replay of campaign commercials, Republican talking points. The meeting wound up being a grand opportunity for them to find added points of attack on the new president.
The coup de grace in all of this was the announced willingness of Republicans in the Senate to meet with Democrats to see if they could "make a deal" on health care. No surprise, after a couple of months or so, the Republicans announced: No deal. Time and public patience wasted.
Obama and the Democrats were played. Trying to cooperate, they walked into a huge trap that helped Republicans win the House in 2010 and the Senate in 2014. Seeing their "accomplishment", the Republicans moved to secrecy this time.
4
I am not sure who has suggested that the Democrats in Congress were as secretive as the current Republican bunch in enacting their "repeal and replace" plans. It was clear to me at the time the ACA was being created that both the President and Congressional leaders were being quite open, and attempted all along the way to involve Republicans in their plans.
That they had to enact the law without Republican support of any kind is a shame, but not the shame of the Democrats. They faced a solid, unbendable wall with the minority Republicans, and could not engage even the most liberal of that party to work with the process. It was silly and mean spirited of the Republicans to draw such a line against their own constituents, but that is what happened.
Their actions now should be no surprise to any American. They will gut the ACA behind closed doors, in order to give tax cuts to the wealthy. It is why we voted for them. Is it not?
That they had to enact the law without Republican support of any kind is a shame, but not the shame of the Democrats. They faced a solid, unbendable wall with the minority Republicans, and could not engage even the most liberal of that party to work with the process. It was silly and mean spirited of the Republicans to draw such a line against their own constituents, but that is what happened.
Their actions now should be no surprise to any American. They will gut the ACA behind closed doors, in order to give tax cuts to the wealthy. It is why we voted for them. Is it not?
17
Oh, here we go with the false equivalency again.
President Obama spent an immense ( if not all ) amount of political capital over the span of 14 months. There were innumerable public and committee hearings that tried to go into every detail. ( under constant screaming from astroturf groups whose sole purpose was to disrupt )
This latest version of republican ''reform '' ( a tax cut for the rich disguised as health care reform ) has been hatched behind closed doors, with several attempts to enact it quickly ( with no one reading it, knowing what is in it or EVEN having a CBO score to know how much it will cost or who it will affect )
Try again.
President Obama spent an immense ( if not all ) amount of political capital over the span of 14 months. There were innumerable public and committee hearings that tried to go into every detail. ( under constant screaming from astroturf groups whose sole purpose was to disrupt )
This latest version of republican ''reform '' ( a tax cut for the rich disguised as health care reform ) has been hatched behind closed doors, with several attempts to enact it quickly ( with no one reading it, knowing what is in it or EVEN having a CBO score to know how much it will cost or who it will affect )
Try again.
5
It isn't just the secrecy that chaps my hide. It's their underhandedness and the outright lies they are using to assault the sick and the aged. Let's not parse words. Assault fits what congress is trying to do just fine. Their bill will not just kick millions of citizens out of our healthcare system. It will bankrupt anyone who has gone ahead and built their business future on our expanding healthcare needs. When did the Republican Party start targeting business? With 7 ex-Goldman Sachs heavies in Trump's administration you'd think they'd support the growth of this subsidized business sector. When they don't, it's because they are shorting that sector. These guys are setting us up, so they can kill it in the market. Hmm. Killing it . . .
8
This is all part of the alternative fact world. Nine days is a longer period than forty-five days. Putin looked me in the eye and said nyet!. Kellyanne Conway is the sharpest tool in the shed. Our "health plan" will be the best. Don't worry about "pre-existing conditions", we'll cover you. Lies and obfuscation become facts and loyalty oaths. SAD! And very trumpish.
10
Thank you, New York Times, for putting this together. It feels rather lonely out here in the fact-based world.
(The fact-free Republican diet: dishonest, secretive, invasive, greedy, malicious, and above all else deeply hypocritical. It is unhealthy for all of us.)
(The fact-free Republican diet: dishonest, secretive, invasive, greedy, malicious, and above all else deeply hypocritical. It is unhealthy for all of us.)
10
Thanks for this extremely useful comparison. It's very important to circulate this information. The Times does a real public service by doing so.
Nonetheless, bear in mind that the Republican messaging strategy here and on many other issues is rather Trumpian: appeal to the base, confuse those uninformed in the middle and ignore the opponents.
Now, do Democrats do that also? To some extent. But with respect to health care, the Republican tactic is to mask the horrible reality of what its legislation will do, by deflecting attention to a side-issue.
Nonetheless, bear in mind that the Republican messaging strategy here and on many other issues is rather Trumpian: appeal to the base, confuse those uninformed in the middle and ignore the opponents.
Now, do Democrats do that also? To some extent. But with respect to health care, the Republican tactic is to mask the horrible reality of what its legislation will do, by deflecting attention to a side-issue.
4
The divided loyalties of the people's representatives are between those who know that whatever that they do their campaign donations will get them re-elected and those who feel responsible for the welfare of the people that they are supposed to represent. The Republicans more than Democrats rely upon the wealth contributors to keep them in office but both have divided loyalties.
1
As I think back over the last decade or so it kind of makes me laugh about which party has been more “secretive” in their deliberations. Remember the Republicans working on the “Prescription Drug Plan” for Medicare under “W”? The Democrats couldn’t get within 10 miles of those negotiations but the Drug Companies and AARP had ringside seats and proposed much of what’s in it. Most of which dictates that prescription drug prices are non-negotiable with the drug manufacturers! America stiffed again.
As far as the Democrats go, their difficulty in the “secretive” area is they don’t really like secrets particularly if it involves the health and welfare of its citizens. Their just built that way, the more the merrier!
As far as the Democrats go, their difficulty in the “secretive” area is they don’t really like secrets particularly if it involves the health and welfare of its citizens. Their just built that way, the more the merrier!
5
Ahh, the fabulous Medicare Part D, wherein the folks who insist that government be run "like a business" require said government -- the largest volume purchaser on the planet -- to pay retail.
1
Yes, but compare the attention paid by the press to the details of Affordable Care Act vs. the present Republican bill. There is no comparison. The press is all over the latter like a cheap suit;with AFC, lots of things were sotto voce, or not reported at all. I don't support much of the current Republican bill, yet fairness is a casualty of the current climate. Where was the concern over doubled premiums and higher deductibles for those who paid for others who did not? Late and to this day begrudgingly, if barely, there. The same is happenibg withthe millions nowbenefiting from expanded Medicaid, rather than paying at least some of their own way with affordable policies as per the Swiss system. Yet these people turn up at meetings yelling for the rest of us to "keep our hands off their health care." They like and clearly feel entitled to the free policies; the country can't afford it. Still, the Democrats want universal public care vs the Swiss,private, universal approach. That insistence is ideological. Half the population paying for the other half is not sustainable. We won't see reporting on that, either.
1
Susan, May I please see your scientific data supporting "clearly feel entitled to the free policies"?
"Clearly" according to whom?
How do you want 'them' to "pay at least some of their own way"?
And where are you planning to dump "the other half" so that "these people" who "turn up at meetings yelling for the rest of" no longer get in your way?
Oh Susan, I am so sorry for your misunderstandings.
"Clearly" according to whom?
How do you want 'them' to "pay at least some of their own way"?
And where are you planning to dump "the other half" so that "these people" who "turn up at meetings yelling for the rest of" no longer get in your way?
Oh Susan, I am so sorry for your misunderstandings.
4
You give absolutely no proof of your claims. Just because you were oblivious doesn't mean the rest of us were.
6
Susan, even under the Swiss system those who cannot pay premiums, such as children, the disabled, the elderly and those temporarily without income, are insured. Everybody else pays taxes and/or premiums they can afford. The Swiss system is also highly regulated to reign in costs. Everybody in a developed society is entitled to adequate health coverage. This is a right, not a product you can afford or not.
11
This is not important- what is important is that the Dems and Pres Obama were making health care more affordable and available to Americans who could not otherwise afford it. The insurance companies are to blame for raising rates. The GOP ( grouch old people as one of my ten year old friends calls them) just wants to kick people off and give the money to the wealthy few. They care nothing for people only for money. They care nothing for sick children or seniors, but just the tax break. They are evil and anti American. They will fail!
6
What were the GOP's "floor actions"? Pulling bills when they didn't have the votes?
4
While the DEMs might have held more hearings, they also had their agenda fixed in stone. Single payer activists were excluded and even arrested trying to get a seat at the table
Here we are 9 years later going at it again because we didn't get it straight.
One BIG obstacle that both parties are chained to: the Profiteers of health care, CEOs, shareholders and many public and private pension funds.
It's time to have a frank discussion about profiting off health care delivery.
Start here and give us the history of the Health sector on the Market.
http://markets.on.nytimes.com/research/markets/usmarkets/sectors.asp?sec...
Here we are 9 years later going at it again because we didn't get it straight.
One BIG obstacle that both parties are chained to: the Profiteers of health care, CEOs, shareholders and many public and private pension funds.
It's time to have a frank discussion about profiting off health care delivery.
Start here and give us the history of the Health sector on the Market.
http://markets.on.nytimes.com/research/markets/usmarkets/sectors.asp?sec...
4
Has anyone pointed out the whoppers that were told in support of Obamacare...if you like your plan you can keep your plan/doctor, and costs will go down?
1
Obamacare might have removed 'pre-existing' conditions, but we all knew the actuaries would figure out how to preserve and improve their Profit margin on the backs of the poor and Government (taxpayers.)
For the Insurance industry, health is all about Profit, not Care!
For the Insurance industry, health is all about Profit, not Care!
4
The first was true for most people, and the second was never promised -- the hope was that the rise in costs would b slowed and that DID happen.
3
The big reveal from this article is that it makes clear how absurd it is that it had to be written. The disinformation from one side is so bad and so pervasive that even obvious facts must now be litigated to death... and not just on this particular issue.
7
Thank you for qualifying and quantifying this data. Given the Republican's ever increasing lies and bluster about almost everything (maybe everything), it's super important to illustrate their persistent lies. Please keep it up!!
6
"if you like your doctor you can keep your doctor"
"If you like your plan you can keep your plan"
"families will save 2500 per year on premiums"
Takes one to know one.
"If you like your plan you can keep your plan"
"families will save 2500 per year on premiums"
Takes one to know one.
Oh, please. False equivalence alert. At least the ACA provided access to coverage to millions, some for the first time in their adult lives. The Republican plan would do the opposite. I'd much rather find a new doctor than not be able to see one at all.
Which party was more secretive?? Interesting premise.
But the only real thing that matters most, is which health plan ended up doing more, for the most people?
Another point. Which plan was drafted in secret by a party in control of ALL three branches of government -- without even so much as a hearing?
Face it. There's no way to equivocate what the Republicans have done in secret with this health care bill, and anything that might have occured while Democrats were forging together the Affordable Care Act -- especially when it comes to the number of Americans who will be put at risk, while the upper-income bracket reaps all the rewards.
Nice try, though.
But the only real thing that matters most, is which health plan ended up doing more, for the most people?
Another point. Which plan was drafted in secret by a party in control of ALL three branches of government -- without even so much as a hearing?
Face it. There's no way to equivocate what the Republicans have done in secret with this health care bill, and anything that might have occured while Democrats were forging together the Affordable Care Act -- especially when it comes to the number of Americans who will be put at risk, while the upper-income bracket reaps all the rewards.
Nice try, though.
7
Is there also a statistic to measure how many lobbyists were involved for the Democrats versus the Republicans?
Let's not forget that Obama and his surrogates took more time to allow all the fat-cat executives in the various industries to get their say as well. You need less time with fewer chefs in the kitchen.
Let's not forget that Obama and his surrogates took more time to allow all the fat-cat executives in the various industries to get their say as well. You need less time with fewer chefs in the kitchen.
1
And you need no chefs if your intended purpose is to reduce super rich folks taxes.
1
So, the Republicans lied. Are we really surprised?
5
So, the Democrats lied. Are we really surprised?
@Baker
Let me guess. It's ALL Obama's fault, right?
Let me guess. It's ALL Obama's fault, right?
2
Geez. Think back, kids, to who single-handedly blocked single-payer because the only constituents he cared about were the CEOs of the insurance industry.
Venality and hypocrisy are equal-opportunity afflictions in Washington.
Venality and hypocrisy are equal-opportunity afflictions in Washington.
1
Obama "single-handedly blocked single-payer" in a useless attempt to get Republican support for the ACA. Great real.
like we didn't know the GOP is a champion of cynical mendacity...
3
All white men, many of them aged, representing about 44% of the country to start with, then remove 51% of that because there are no women on their drafting committee... Why would we expect less than a narrowing of thought that leads to their own disastrous and tone deaf health care plan.
The title reads more like a rhetorical question. Perhaps it should have been, instead: What do you get when you cross a Republican with a Health Care Plan?
23 million less paying patients...
The title reads more like a rhetorical question. Perhaps it should have been, instead: What do you get when you cross a Republican with a Health Care Plan?
23 million less paying patients...
8
This is a sad, sad commentary on the status of open government in America. Sadder still is that the people's right to open government was not taken away; they gave it away of their own free will.
7
Nicely done but too late. The Rs (fake) talking point is already in stone.
4
There are two reasons not to hold hearings. One, you don't want anybody to know what you are doing cause it is grossly unpopular. Keep it quiet till you are ready to spring it on them and hope for the best. Second, you are working out details where additional input only muddies the waters. Hold a hearing when you are sure this is what you want and can defend it.
2
It is evident that the main objective of the Republicans is to repeal Obamacare. Replacing it is an after thought that is only meant to appease opposition to the repeal. Whereas the Democrats objective was to create a law that gives all Americans access to health care insurance. It's a night and day difference.
12
The Republicans swore a blood oath to block every action of our first African American President Obama, even before he took office. This obstructionism and racist Obama-hatred formed the basis of the Republican strategy before during and after any action on the ACA. It fostered the Trumpian rise to power. Without describing political background surrounding the passage of the ACA, this article has no value other than to create a false equivalence. Sad.
6
If the GOP had any brains at all it would sneak in with a modified medicare-for-all before the Democrats do it. It is absolutely inevitable -- and the cherry goes to the party that initiates it. Don't worry about the private companies -- they will be part of any single-payer system .. just like they are now .. with real Medicare.
There is absolutely zero benefit in beating around the bush on this.
There is absolutely zero benefit in beating around the bush on this.
7
@Marvinsky
You have an excellent point. As much as it pains me to say it, if the Republicans would wise up and provide a single payer/Medicaid for all plan, they would become the heroes of the healthcare wars. But, I think that their stubbornness, hubris, and inexplicable need to erase every vestige of the Obama presidency will keep them from doing the wise thing.
You have an excellent point. As much as it pains me to say it, if the Republicans would wise up and provide a single payer/Medicaid for all plan, they would become the heroes of the healthcare wars. But, I think that their stubbornness, hubris, and inexplicable need to erase every vestige of the Obama presidency will keep them from doing the wise thing.
I have heard many GOP "leaders" -- e.g., Mitch McConnell and others -- tell us the fable that Obamacare was drafted in secret. No one in the press has pushed back. In fact, because the news media has allowed these kinds of fables to be put out over and over again, the public believes them and votes for the perpetrators. Global climate change is a hoax; tax cuts for the rich produce more jobs; Iraq has weapons of mass destruction. The truth has always been around, but the mainstream media has itself ignored the truth in favor of pandering to FOX or some other excuse.
Thanks for at least starting to tell us the truth. You owe it to us, after Judith Miller and aluminum tubes.
Thanks for at least starting to tell us the truth. You owe it to us, after Judith Miller and aluminum tubes.
11
Regarding your headline: does it really matter? Our Congress, and our Presidents, have done many things in secrecy for a very long time. Perhaps it is time for the kettle to stop calling the pan black, admit to past similarities and move on. Instead of talking and complaining, get to work, stop recessing and get something done.....even if it is wrong.......DO SOMETHING!
1
The difference is shocking. But the world of constant shocks can lead to numbness.
Like a deer in the headlights, most Americans can't begin to register the monumental changes being planned by Republicans. That's GOP strategy.
There's an order of magnitude between the ACA process and today's. Most realities are shades of grey. Increasingly, the GOP and Trump produce one that's black & white. The contrast between the Democrat's process and theirs is stark.
Spin-doctors chip at the edges. Spin is short-term: sow doubt, to undermine evidence. They hope doubt will reduce impact.
In this case, it's spin like "the ACA was new, replacement is just modification." As if changes that effect tens of millions aren't important. Or "the ACA's big pieces weren't public." If you listened in, you know that everything, including public options and drug purchases, had hearings.
We face the Republican's out-of-control drive. Don't blink, stand firm, and make the GOP swerve.
Like a deer in the headlights, most Americans can't begin to register the monumental changes being planned by Republicans. That's GOP strategy.
There's an order of magnitude between the ACA process and today's. Most realities are shades of grey. Increasingly, the GOP and Trump produce one that's black & white. The contrast between the Democrat's process and theirs is stark.
Spin-doctors chip at the edges. Spin is short-term: sow doubt, to undermine evidence. They hope doubt will reduce impact.
In this case, it's spin like "the ACA was new, replacement is just modification." As if changes that effect tens of millions aren't important. Or "the ACA's big pieces weren't public." If you listened in, you know that everything, including public options and drug purchases, had hearings.
We face the Republican's out-of-control drive. Don't blink, stand firm, and make the GOP swerve.
3
Secrecy? It's no secret: All sane, decent people want single payer health care. Now.
7
Why did they need hearings anyway? Didn't during the campaign Trump say he had a plan to cover everybody and provide them better care at a lower cost? I'm amazed the Republicans don't simply ask Trump for his plan (although perhaps he was talking about a single payer system that for a number of years he said was the only real fix for problems with ObamaCare)
8
Trump has no plan, he has no brains, he has nothing for the American people. Hes just a rich old mean dude who is selfish and crazy
2
It appears after having 8 years to come up with a health plan, the Republicans are trying to do it in a matter of days. Besides lack of foresight, they are now considering throwing millions of their own Party into the gutter to suffer and die without health care. What kind of people are these Republicans? Many years ago, I voted for Eisenhower. I can imagine his comments in graphic terms on how he would view this current crop of self serving Republicans.
6
Republicans are so hypocritical that it boggles the mind anyone could vote for them. Denouncing deficits while out of power and then running enormous deficits while in power; claiming to represent "hardworking Americans" while presiding over a massive transfer of wealth from the middle class and poor to the rich; decrying Big Brother government while trying their hardest to get Big Brother into women's bodies; campaigning against "activist" judges except when they're Republican activist judges - I mean, the list is endless.
Thus when it comes to denouncing Democratic "secrecy" in writing health care legislation and then writing their own version in almost total secrecy... well, what else is new?
That Republicans can still win elections is just another wretched example of how cognitive dissonance has infected Republican voters to the point where it's become a full-fledged delusion - i.e., severe mental illness.
Thus when it comes to denouncing Democratic "secrecy" in writing health care legislation and then writing their own version in almost total secrecy... well, what else is new?
That Republicans can still win elections is just another wretched example of how cognitive dissonance has infected Republican voters to the point where it's become a full-fledged delusion - i.e., severe mental illness.
41
While the ACA may have had more hearings, it came as a major surprise to those who voted fro Obama. A person who said he was doing health care reform, compared with John McCain, which was pushing for what became the ACA. What the GOP stood for, for years, buy insurance or pay a fine, tort reform and the like. Then after taking office, health care reform became health insurance reform. The various lobbyists got together and created the ACA that kept the profits in our health care system. And, to make sure it would not happen, Joe Lieberman refused to vote for a bill which had a public option, to make the insurance companies in Hartford happy. Not Republican voted for the ACA, and what people voted on, was read by a few.
The GOP, effectively took the fast track used by the ACA. THeir bill is the ant-ACA, even though the ACA was their idea and in their platform, until Obama got the ACA passed. Even though they one time supported, buy insurance or pay a fine. Now, they want to gut the bill, again with the help of some lobbyists, which helped to get the ACA passed.
Both parties did a lot of this behind closed doors and out of the public view. And both parties lied to the public. They also did a lot of deals in secret.
So, to say the Democrats were more "open" is a fabrication.
And neither part addressed cost containment and obtaining true universal health care. The US is is as expensive as ever, with even worse outcomes.
The GOP, effectively took the fast track used by the ACA. THeir bill is the ant-ACA, even though the ACA was their idea and in their platform, until Obama got the ACA passed. Even though they one time supported, buy insurance or pay a fine. Now, they want to gut the bill, again with the help of some lobbyists, which helped to get the ACA passed.
Both parties did a lot of this behind closed doors and out of the public view. And both parties lied to the public. They also did a lot of deals in secret.
So, to say the Democrats were more "open" is a fabrication.
And neither part addressed cost containment and obtaining true universal health care. The US is is as expensive as ever, with even worse outcomes.
4
You seem to forget- the original plan was single payer. The Republicans were so opposed that they shut everything down and refused to cooperate. The ACA was actually the GOP "compromise" position, when in fact, it was Mitt Romney's plan.
4
Clearly the facts laid out in this article did not convince you that there is no equality between how the Democrats went about it versus the Republicans. However, I agree with your last statement, ACA did not obtain universal coverage and it is as expensive as ever.
Why are we required to accept healthcare systems that are profit driven? To ask a very old question, "how much is a man's life worth?"
Why are we required to accept healthcare systems that are profit driven? To ask a very old question, "how much is a man's life worth?"
3
adb,
You seem to forget.
The opposition came from Joe Lieberman, who scuttled the pubic option, for insurance companies based in Connecticut. If a public option was retained, the ACA would not have passes. And, opposition from the lobbyists who help write the bill. Obama backed down from health care reform to health insurance reform. The GOP was MIA, just like the Democrats are now.
You seem to forget.
The opposition came from Joe Lieberman, who scuttled the pubic option, for insurance companies based in Connecticut. If a public option was retained, the ACA would not have passes. And, opposition from the lobbyists who help write the bill. Obama backed down from health care reform to health insurance reform. The GOP was MIA, just like the Democrats are now.
4
Subtract out all the hypocrisy and the GOP would just vanish without a trace.
7
Two different reasons secrecy was used. Democrats because Republicans didn't even want to do a thing for the people of this country and cut the coverage as much as possible. Now, Republicans hiding in secret- this is destroying a program already active because really it is a tax bill for the well endowed. Just employing a bit of humor, tired of always having to say "rich" , well off, friends, you know the people who are charging exorbitantly on insurance,drugs, any and all things medical.
2
What a sad state of affairs when OUR government - organized by WE THE PEOPLE - to protect us from the very crooks who have gotten control has to have "secret" talks on health care for all Americans.
Sad, as the Con Don would say.
Sad and NOT acceptable. Get profit OUT of health care. Get "markets" OUT of health care. Put them back in their place supporting good business - not destroying OUR lives for their insatiable greed.
Sad, as the Con Don would say.
Sad and NOT acceptable. Get profit OUT of health care. Get "markets" OUT of health care. Put them back in their place supporting good business - not destroying OUR lives for their insatiable greed.
9
Let's take a moment to remember that it was Senator Lieberman who stopped us from having the public option as well as Medicare at 55. He voted for his real constituents, the health insurance companies. There is something now gratifying about seeing Aetna leave Connecticut for New York.
Maybe, once the Republicans and Trump are finished making a mess of Obamacare, our elected leaders will figure out how to come together and bring us closer to single payer.
Maybe, once the Republicans and Trump are finished making a mess of Obamacare, our elected leaders will figure out how to come together and bring us closer to single payer.
21
A healthcare plan is only half the equation for the GOP. If they actually manage to push their plan through Congress, the GOP will also need to develop some supernatural political spin to convince sick and dying people that they are better off with their awful legislation.
3
The end result counts. It doesn't matter what was the process to use. In the end, both parties failed to reach a single payer system to lower the costs for everyone. Stop pretending we are a two-party system. In the end, they both work for money and power.
3
They're shameless.
4
I remember those days well when the Democrats were attempting to pass the ACA. I, in fact, was deeply involved in my desire to see it become the law of the land. We finally had a president who was stepping up to the task, and responsibility, of bringing our nation close to what many developed countries already had and what was, in all cases, successful.
There was no secret amongst the Democrats in Congress. Yes, of course, it was bipartisan. However, it was grueling and hard work and what seemed to have taken so very long. We had the single payers on one side, and the Blue Dogs on the other. But thanks to the likes of Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid, not to mention President Obama's complete immersion in it, a compromise was achieved.
And now seven years later we are faced with millions of people losing their only chance to have a healthy life because of the underhanded maneuvers of the Mitch's and Paul's in our Congress. They and their supporters along with their president are fools to think we possibly put in the same category what Democrats did in 2010.
There was no secret amongst the Democrats in Congress. Yes, of course, it was bipartisan. However, it was grueling and hard work and what seemed to have taken so very long. We had the single payers on one side, and the Blue Dogs on the other. But thanks to the likes of Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid, not to mention President Obama's complete immersion in it, a compromise was achieved.
And now seven years later we are faced with millions of people losing their only chance to have a healthy life because of the underhanded maneuvers of the Mitch's and Paul's in our Congress. They and their supporters along with their president are fools to think we possibly put in the same category what Democrats did in 2010.
9
Thank you for this article, I will bookmark it for further reference when I am told the DEMS constructed the ACA behind closed doors and shoved the bill into law, and the poor Republicans knew nothing of it. We hear that excuse a lot from the GOP lately.
Regardless, the GOP meets in secret because discussing the huge windfall and dollar profits they will make from the health Insurance Companies, big pharms, dividends, rise in stock prices, prospect of lobbyist jobs when they are not re-elected 2018, in exchange for people's lives, even they know is heartless and mean. But their greed supercede any moral compass they might have had.
They only look after themselves and their rich benefactors.
Regardless, the GOP meets in secret because discussing the huge windfall and dollar profits they will make from the health Insurance Companies, big pharms, dividends, rise in stock prices, prospect of lobbyist jobs when they are not re-elected 2018, in exchange for people's lives, even they know is heartless and mean. But their greed supercede any moral compass they might have had.
They only look after themselves and their rich benefactors.
6
In a word- Republicans. It is not even close. A number of Republican Senators claimed they did not get to see the bill before it was publicly released. I guess so they could claim plausible deniability of what was in the bill when their constituents raised hell with them.
4
If this is a contest to see which party is the most secretive, it isn't even close. Republicans pervert the history of how Obamacare was passed to justify their very dishonest, secretive, hypocritical and unprecedented approach. Making stuff up is not a substitute for quality policy making which Republicans seem incapable of producing. We the people should not allow ourselves to be fooled by such falsehoods and propaganda.
8
Sorry. Both parties--in their leadership--are wretched; are self-aggrandizing and self-enriching; vie endlessly for the Hypocrisy of the Century Award.
Arrogant secrecy around health care reform began with Her. She lost a lot of allies during that debacle, and set back the goal of universal coverage and single payer by, like, decades.
How*s Obama*s gift to the private insurance industry working out for those neither rich nor poor?
I was paying for COBRA coverage received through a divorce settlement, and it was astronomical, and was a couple of years away from Medicare eligibility, and an insurance broker looked into what might be available to me through the ACA, and there was nothing that would have saved me any money. I thank God for having advanced far enough now into my mature years to qualify for the government insurance program for old people. I needed it last year and it was, no exaggeration, a Godsend.
The Democrats, as usual, didn't have the guts of their supposed convictions when they had a majority. Even California is afraid of fighting for single-payer healthcare coverage.
It*s all of the Swamp Things. Not just the red ones.
Arrogant secrecy around health care reform began with Her. She lost a lot of allies during that debacle, and set back the goal of universal coverage and single payer by, like, decades.
How*s Obama*s gift to the private insurance industry working out for those neither rich nor poor?
I was paying for COBRA coverage received through a divorce settlement, and it was astronomical, and was a couple of years away from Medicare eligibility, and an insurance broker looked into what might be available to me through the ACA, and there was nothing that would have saved me any money. I thank God for having advanced far enough now into my mature years to qualify for the government insurance program for old people. I needed it last year and it was, no exaggeration, a Godsend.
The Democrats, as usual, didn't have the guts of their supposed convictions when they had a majority. Even California is afraid of fighting for single-payer healthcare coverage.
It*s all of the Swamp Things. Not just the red ones.
3
I blame the people who say both sides are just as bad for Trump. There are almost certainly enough voters who were influenced by this way of thinking to make the difference last November.
And only someone who hasn't bothered to read or think could believe such tripe.
And only someone who hasn't bothered to read or think could believe such tripe.
11
If there was ever any doubt about the American public's ability to cut off its nose to spite its face, the responses. so far, to this article have erased it.
For the nay sayers to make the claim that this present goat rope is just a modification of the ACA and therefor doesn't require any hearings is ludicrous at best and blasphemous at worst. Gutting the present law to create a death bill is not a "modification," no matter how the republicans try to spin it.
For the nay sayers to make the claim that this present goat rope is just a modification of the ACA and therefor doesn't require any hearings is ludicrous at best and blasphemous at worst. Gutting the present law to create a death bill is not a "modification," no matter how the republicans try to spin it.
8
Didn't FDR propose health care as a human right? Then Harry Truman tried to implement a plan, but the Republicans and the American Medical Association stopped it cold. Since then, Kennedy, Johnson, Carter, Clinton and Obama have tried, with more or less success, but Republicans have consistently blocked progress.
Imagine if your family still had all the money they've spent on health care over the generations since FDR. Instead, the Republicans have assured that middle class wealth went to the rich.
That is the secret GOP plan.
Imagine if your family still had all the money they've spent on health care over the generations since FDR. Instead, the Republicans have assured that middle class wealth went to the rich.
That is the secret GOP plan.
8
There was one Republican who could be added to the list, and his plan was Much better than what the Republicans of today are trying to do. Even though there was so much wrong with Nixon, he did think it was his job to help the People. I am saying this, and I am not a Republican.
www.nixonfoundation.org/2015/11/the-nixon-comprehensive-health-insurance...
www.nixonfoundation.org/2015/11/the-nixon-comprehensive-health-insurance...
Neither party one has addressed the reality that the medical industry is not a free market and thus, prices have exceeded the overall inflation rate since at least the 1970's (and drug industry profits have led the corporate world since then as well).
When we provide funds to pay hospitals, doctors and drug companies but fail to control prices (as a free market would), the 10% a year increases result. Obamacare did not address this problem, and no Republican solution comes close.
A single payer system is the only solution, that is, if we wish to live in a constructive society as opposed to a budding oligarchy. By the way, Republicans' programs, like tax cuts for the already rich, have never helped to create prosperity. These programs of low taxes and little regulation did, however, lead to the Great Depression and the 2008 Great Recession. Speaker Ryan may look smart, but he does not have the answer to prosperity.
When we provide funds to pay hospitals, doctors and drug companies but fail to control prices (as a free market would), the 10% a year increases result. Obamacare did not address this problem, and no Republican solution comes close.
A single payer system is the only solution, that is, if we wish to live in a constructive society as opposed to a budding oligarchy. By the way, Republicans' programs, like tax cuts for the already rich, have never helped to create prosperity. These programs of low taxes and little regulation did, however, lead to the Great Depression and the 2008 Great Recession. Speaker Ryan may look smart, but he does not have the answer to prosperity.
2
How about the party who wanted to give the corporate drug industry an over 50-time show of repealing the Affordable Care Act's 50% discount on brand-named drugs purchased through the Medicare Part D prescription plan? All this years GOP plans include repealing that discount for our Medicare fund, too.
1
The goal of a health care bill should be health care. The goal of this bill is tax cuts for the wealthy. BCRA really stands for Big (tax)Cuts for Rich Americans.
8
It should be obvious that Republicans are math-challenged.
They count $2 trillion TWICE. And when the error is pointed out, they stand by it anyway.
They cannot count days marked on a calendar to figure out that the ACA was much more debated and discussed than anything they have done.
That explains a great deal about how the Republicans "think" (and the quotation marks are deliberate).
They count $2 trillion TWICE. And when the error is pointed out, they stand by it anyway.
They cannot count days marked on a calendar to figure out that the ACA was much more debated and discussed than anything they have done.
That explains a great deal about how the Republicans "think" (and the quotation marks are deliberate).
6
If you have been on this and/or prior comment boards criticizing the Republican/Trump “healthcare” bill, but have not contacted your senators and representative in Congress to voice your opposition, it is now time to step up and call them.
Especially now that Ted Cruz – the junior senator from Texas and most ardent proponent of the Republican hard-right agenda – has taken over the role of “closer” for the Republican “healthcare” bill this week.
Find your two senators and their telephone numbers via the “Find your senators” menu on the senate.gov website.
Find your representative in the House by using your zip code in the “Find your representative” search engine on the house.gov website.
There is no reason not to put down what you are doing, right now, and spend a couple of minutes to make the calls.
Especially if your senator(s) and/or rep are Republican, tell them that you are opposed and why. (One good reason is that a trillion dollar tax cut for the rich 1% taken out of your healthcare and Medicaid is not something you voted for , and as not something you were promised.)
If Democrat senator(s)/rep, encourage them to oppose/resist the bill with any and all publicity and parliamentary means at their disposal.
Especially now that Ted Cruz – the junior senator from Texas and most ardent proponent of the Republican hard-right agenda – has taken over the role of “closer” for the Republican “healthcare” bill this week.
Find your two senators and their telephone numbers via the “Find your senators” menu on the senate.gov website.
Find your representative in the House by using your zip code in the “Find your representative” search engine on the house.gov website.
There is no reason not to put down what you are doing, right now, and spend a couple of minutes to make the calls.
Especially if your senator(s) and/or rep are Republican, tell them that you are opposed and why. (One good reason is that a trillion dollar tax cut for the rich 1% taken out of your healthcare and Medicaid is not something you voted for , and as not something you were promised.)
If Democrat senator(s)/rep, encourage them to oppose/resist the bill with any and all publicity and parliamentary means at their disposal.
2
"Which Party Was More Secretive in Working on Its Health Care Plan?"
Disingenuous question and yet another false equivalency suggested?
Disingenuous question and yet another false equivalency suggested?
5
The usual NY Times brand of shameless and insidious and corrosive false equivalency. "Which Party Was More Secretive Working On It's HealthCare Plan?; implying that BOTH parties worked in secret on their plans; when of course the Democrats were NOT AT ALL secretive: Obama proposed the plan to a joint session of Congress, everyone knew what approach he wanted to take (especially always disingenuous Republicans because it was basically THEIR plan, RomneyCare via the Heritage Foundation, so they already knew what was in it); everyone knew what he wanted to do and what the components of the plan were, the media reported on it with their usual Republican right wing bias, of course, and 40 some open hearings were frequently held as the Times states. To suggest that the Democrats were somehow as secretive as the Republicans are now being with their health care bill is basically a lie, a slander against Democrats, and another example of the blatant false equivalency the former newspaper of record has taken to creating lately, in what I suppose is an attempt to appease Republican efforts to intimidate the press. Yet another example of journalistic malpractice on the part of the Times, and another reason thinking people now take anything the Times says with a big grain of salt. Disgraceful.
8
During the ACA debate Obama was accused by Republicans of not letting them have any input and being very secretive. Obamas' response was to hold a televised meeting with only the Republican leaders so the American people and the world for that matter could see and hear their ideas on the topic. Most of the Republicans had a large stack of papers in front of them representing the 2600 page ACA. When asked for their ideas all but one said -and I paraphrase here- "Mr. President tear this bill up and start over." The one Republican that offered a constructive idea was Senator Tom Coburn of Oklahoma. He brought up that we need to try. to eliminate fraud in Medicare and Medicaid. Obama agreed. Why does no one ever mention this televised meeting?
7
Of course they are being secretive. Wouldn't you be if your were planning to cut the health care of millions to hand out a tax cut to a few individuals that really don't need anymore money? You hide what you are ashamed of, and they should be guilt ridden.
5
Trump to America: See The New York Times had an article just today. About which Party was more secretive about Health Care. It had pictures and a huge graph. The Democractic had more box many more boxes. You can always trust the trump.
1
Evidence means nothing to those who have every intent to cling to their beliefs; Obamacare is Evil. When we all get TrumpCareTM and Grandmas,Grandpas; siblings, children- spouses and partners can not get any type of coverage due to preexisting illnesses or simply beyond the pocketbook; there will still be those who will bray about * What Democrats Did *.
At my age, I am running out of empathy, sympathy and just darn caring about people who care nothing about themselves,me or anyone else. I say, let them froth at the lips and stew in their own misery. Fortunately, I live in a State where there will be a magnanimous effort to keep everyone insured on Medicaid and many proactive employers who will not scrape their health plans to the bare bone. Thank God.
I do worry about friends and relatives living on the other side of the Mason-Dixon line and other unenlightened places where States with GOP Representatives want their Rights to kill as many of its citizens as feasible without being accused of genocide.
At my age, I am running out of empathy, sympathy and just darn caring about people who care nothing about themselves,me or anyone else. I say, let them froth at the lips and stew in their own misery. Fortunately, I live in a State where there will be a magnanimous effort to keep everyone insured on Medicaid and many proactive employers who will not scrape their health plans to the bare bone. Thank God.
I do worry about friends and relatives living on the other side of the Mason-Dixon line and other unenlightened places where States with GOP Representatives want their Rights to kill as many of its citizens as feasible without being accused of genocide.
4
When a story is undeniably false giving it equal time in the press disrespects those trying to do the right thing and promotes further falsifications. In the title present the story as deserved and provide it the appropriate coverage. Question: How much fantasy fills your newspaper? It's not about being biased, it's about presenting an accurate picture that's not based upon equivalent story length.
4
huh? Are you complaining that the Times is providing a fact based comparison?
2
The GOP has been far more secretive. They know full well that what they are doing will hurt the citizens they claim to represent. The truth is that they represent health insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies, hospital chains, medical device companies, the fossil fuel industry, and every other industry that lines their pockets for their election campaigns while not representing our interests at all. Their "plan" for health care in America is this: be born rich so you can afford the care you'll need. Otherwise you can drop dead. In fact the entire message of the GOP can be boiled down to these words: Rich corporations and Americans are more equal than others.
15
thank you for providing this data. it's beyond infuriating to constantly hear the refrain about how democrats crafted the aca in secret and never to have any pushback by the reporters/stenographers.
6
Interesting but irrelevant article. Despite the number of hearings, etc. two major deals were cut by the Obama administration behind closed doors that were central to the failure of the ACA to achieve what is possible. The drug manufacturers were promised no negotiating by the government on pricing. The American Hospital Association was given a substantial increase in the site of service differential that costs the government hundreds of millions of dollars annually.
The sausage is made by both parties with basically the same methods.
The sausage is made by both parties with basically the same methods.
3
Not to defend Republicans, but to complain about the reporting: no one is mentioning that Democrats had a super-majority in Congress when they set about their "transparent" effort to pass the ACA. Imagine a history where Democrats had a vote margin of only two or three and then ask if they would have been so forthcoming with such a rare opportunity. Or if they would have even tried...
2
They had 60 votes in the senate.
They needed 60 votes to pass the bill.
They had zero margin, compared to 2 senators now.
I don't get the point you are making.
They needed 60 votes to pass the bill.
They had zero margin, compared to 2 senators now.
I don't get the point you are making.
4
@uld: What is your point? No one forbade Republicans from voting in the affirmative for ACA. Oh how I wish straw ponies were banished from the NYT Comment Threads.
5
Happy to explain: A super majority doesn't just give you a majority of the votes, it protects you from filibusters (in this case, in the Senate). As long as you can keep your party in line, you can be as open and transparent as you like with the process, no one from the other party can slow - much less stop - you from enacting your legislation.
Mind you, the Democrats earned this rare opportunity. Going into the 2008 election, the Senate was evenly split between Republicans and Democrats (49 - 49). But after the election, that shifted to 58 for the Democrats. With two independent votes on their side (Bernie Sanders and Joe Lieberman), there was nothing Republicans could do to stop them.
And that allowed Democrats to be as open and transparent as they wanted.
Mind you, the Democrats earned this rare opportunity. Going into the 2008 election, the Senate was evenly split between Republicans and Democrats (49 - 49). But after the election, that shifted to 58 for the Democrats. With two independent votes on their side (Bernie Sanders and Joe Lieberman), there was nothing Republicans could do to stop them.
And that allowed Democrats to be as open and transparent as they wanted.
1
The GOP knows that poor people don't vote. Reduce the middle-class to poverty and voila! The rich can run the country without all those pesky hoi polloi getting in the way all the time. Quite clever....unconscionable, and morally repellent - but effective.
6
"Which Party Was More Secretive...?" As the kids say, OMG. This is the problem with America. Pretending like that's even a question.
13
Gasp!
Surely you are not implying that GOP House and Senate members are hypocrites.
Or does this mean that the GOP has learned if you repeat an untruth often with all talking heads on the same page, that dutiful, unquestioning followers will, well, dutifully and unquestioningly follow?
Could FOX news and bloviating big mouths like Limbaugh, Beck, and Alex Jones (current of former chief sources of 'news' for many GOP base) have anything to do with this?
Surely you are not implying that GOP House and Senate members are hypocrites.
Or does this mean that the GOP has learned if you repeat an untruth often with all talking heads on the same page, that dutiful, unquestioning followers will, well, dutifully and unquestioningly follow?
Could FOX news and bloviating big mouths like Limbaugh, Beck, and Alex Jones (current of former chief sources of 'news' for many GOP base) have anything to do with this?
6
Missing from this analysis is the sheer number of Republican amendments that the Democrats added to the ACA so as to get bipartisan support, after which the Republicans unanimously voted against anyway.
27
Republicans want to frame things in such a way that their supporters actually believe that what they are doing is better than what we have now. However, there is a big problem: taking healthcare away from millions of people and increasing costs for older and sicker people does not work out well when you actually do the math. Rhetoric does not change reality.
8
Yes this article repeats Republican deception on Healthcare. However it uses a more simplistic approach to illustrate the problem. For some voters this is important. Not everyone reads. Some folks skim and look at pictures. That is in part why people watch the blurb news on the TV. Perhaps Trump will see this story and figure out that the bill is a dud. Could one of his aids please sneak this article into Trump's pile of magazines or coloring books or whatever he glances at?
5
There's a loud claim here that the Democratic "secrecy," stemmed from Hillary Clinton's secrecy in the Clinton Admin's healtth bill, back in 1993.
Nope. Not what happened.
http://www.nytimes.com/1994/08/29/us/health-care-debate-what-went-wrong-...
They obviously screwed it up--largely by overestimating their support--and many details were kept quiet, but concealment isn't how it went. Not even close.
Nope. Not what happened.
http://www.nytimes.com/1994/08/29/us/health-care-debate-what-went-wrong-...
They obviously screwed it up--largely by overestimating their support--and many details were kept quiet, but concealment isn't how it went. Not even close.
6
Thanks for this reminder Robert. Republican lies take on a life of their own.
1
Another article that obscures the real problem: Both parties are beholden to donors who will fight to prioritize the middle-men and their profits over the legitimate health care needs of working Americans. There are billions of dollars at stake---and those dollars will decide who gets health care, as well as who gets left behind. Every thinking American already knows that a well designed single payer plan will be more economical and more fair----but campaign finance dollars always trump logic and honest, humane policy.
15
In my state the Dem party is behind single payer. It is coming, but putting down people who work to get it in place, because their plans are not pure enough, will not help the progress.
7
It is important to note that not all universal health care programs are single payer. In fact, most countries that have universal health care are multi-payer. Germany for one has an excellent multi-payer system and universal health care.
There are secrets like "what will I get for Christmas?" and secrets like "who is the murderer?"
It isn't just that there are secrets in the republican planning process, but just how appalling those secrets actually are.
People's health will be far more endangered under this "plan." Many more poor people will die
Which is why these secrets are secrets in the first place.
It isn't just that there are secrets in the republican planning process, but just how appalling those secrets actually are.
People's health will be far more endangered under this "plan." Many more poor people will die
Which is why these secrets are secrets in the first place.
34
The Republicans' Affordable Strychnine Act wins the 2017 Under The Cover Of Darkness Award.
"Give me liberty and death !": GOP 2017
"Give me liberty and death !": GOP 2017
26
Regrettably this article, like most reporting on this subject, persists in following the Republican deception of referring to the proposed legislation as directed toward health care when in fact it is a tax cut for high-income taxpayers. In this case the cut is to be paid for by cutting health services to lower and middle-income populations. Note the Republicans are not paying for the cut by reducing agricultural subsidies or defense spending, they target the most vulnerable and least-organized segments of the electorate. Some Republicans express anguish or concern about possible impacts on the elderly or people with pre-existing conditions before they vote for the bill. Others, e.g., Senator Ted Cruz or Rep. Paul Ryan, seek to peddle policies with such high deductibles or limited coverage they are essentially worthless. No matter what the deception they unite around the intention of a huge tax benefit to a small segment of the population that will in turn re-invest a portion of that gain in campaign contributions. Some will flow into PACs or advocacy organizations pushing other issues dear to Republican hearts. I find it surprising and disheartening that the New York Times perpetuates the falsehood this legislation seeks to deal with health care when it is so difficult to identify positive health outcomes from its provisions. In contrast it is quite clear who receives the gain from cutting taxes. This bill will be followed by a "tax reform" further benefiting the wealthy.
37
Keep it up, Times!
This is a superbly put together and very easily digested piece of reporting.
If only it were possible to bring vpforth Universal Healthcare so easily.
This is a superbly put together and very easily digested piece of reporting.
If only it were possible to bring vpforth Universal Healthcare so easily.
6
Once again, we can see that the NYT is going about it's work in a completely irresponsible manner. All they give us here is facts, facts and more facts. People don't want facts--they want the truth.
Keep it up--keep publishing this kind of nonsense. The more you do it, the more you'll be accused of fake news.
Keep it up--keep publishing this kind of nonsense. The more you do it, the more you'll be accused of fake news.
24
"People don't want the facts - they want the truth"? Seriously? What are you saying, exactly? What "truth" is not being told?
3
Justin, I would like to think that bob is being facetious, but ti hard to tell these days.
4
Duh! Republicans = hypocrites 'Nuff said.
7
The truth the blame for this 'Secrecy about Health Care plans actually goes back to Pres. Clinton's and First Lady Hillary Clinton.
She was put in charge of the crafting of a plan and proceeded to attempt, with some success, to do it IN SECRET. The plan failed ,in part because the public (including myself) resented her attitude. Her contempt for the average person's judgement was palpable. From that point on I never supported her. I enjoyed voting for then Sen. Obama the 2008 primary. I held my nose very painfully and did vote for her in 2016.. I have a feeling if she had won that election that by now she would be just as annoying as theDumpster but in her own way.
She lost the election because she ran a terrible campaign. Period!!
My choice was Sen. Sherrod Brown (D-OH) but she managed to dissuade all other viable Dems from running for because'She was entitled to the nomination.
That worked out about as well as her 1993 health plan.
She was put in charge of the crafting of a plan and proceeded to attempt, with some success, to do it IN SECRET. The plan failed ,in part because the public (including myself) resented her attitude. Her contempt for the average person's judgement was palpable. From that point on I never supported her. I enjoyed voting for then Sen. Obama the 2008 primary. I held my nose very painfully and did vote for her in 2016.. I have a feeling if she had won that election that by now she would be just as annoying as theDumpster but in her own way.
She lost the election because she ran a terrible campaign. Period!!
My choice was Sen. Sherrod Brown (D-OH) but she managed to dissuade all other viable Dems from running for because'She was entitled to the nomination.
That worked out about as well as her 1993 health plan.
2
Wrong Adara, Repubican propaganda back then also, I refer you to Robert's post;
"Robert Out West 3 hours ago
There's a loud claim here that the Democratic "secrecy," stemmed from Hillary Clinton's secrecy in the Clinton Admin's healtth bill, back in 1993.
Nope. Not what happened.
http://www.nytimes.com/1994/08/29/us/health-care-debate-what-went-wrong-...
They obviously screwed it up--largely by overestimating their support--and many details were kept quiet, but concealment isn't how it went. Not even close."
"Robert Out West 3 hours ago
There's a loud claim here that the Democratic "secrecy," stemmed from Hillary Clinton's secrecy in the Clinton Admin's healtth bill, back in 1993.
Nope. Not what happened.
http://www.nytimes.com/1994/08/29/us/health-care-debate-what-went-wrong-...
They obviously screwed it up--largely by overestimating their support--and many details were kept quiet, but concealment isn't how it went. Not even close."
2
Why does the NYT have a headline and front page lead which imply there's any issue here? As the article itself makes clear, the GOP has been preparing this bill without any public hearings or input, precisely because they know how unpopular it will be.
10
Thank you New York Times.
It doesn't seem to matter what is being said these days either by the president or Republicans. Their supporters just buy it. This data should clarify at least this ACA vs. the GOP approach.
As a nurse, I have called upon public hearings in support of the ACA to include the ANA, the AHA, the AMA. Unfortunately we have a Secretary of Health and Human Services who opposes the ACA. Even though he is a doctor, who has taken an oath to do no harm, Tom Price is willing to let 20+ million people go without health insurance, is willing to let an estimated 43,000 people die in one year without their ACA coverage, and is willing to prohibit the public and legislature from hearing the medical truth and ramifications of the GOP proposals.
The ANA and AMA do not want to see people needlessly suffer and/or not be take care of medically because they do not have insurance. The AHA does not want to see hospitals, especially rural hospitals close their doors, preventing farmers and rural folk from having nearby healthcare facilities.
Remember some smaller, rural hospitals are critical access hospitals, immediate interceptors of patients that need to be transferred for more intensive care. Without critical access, some patients acutely stricken may not survive.
It is time Republicans realize they have failed. They failed to have a healthcare plan for seven years, when they could have planned.
Now is the time for Republicans to work for the people.
It doesn't seem to matter what is being said these days either by the president or Republicans. Their supporters just buy it. This data should clarify at least this ACA vs. the GOP approach.
As a nurse, I have called upon public hearings in support of the ACA to include the ANA, the AHA, the AMA. Unfortunately we have a Secretary of Health and Human Services who opposes the ACA. Even though he is a doctor, who has taken an oath to do no harm, Tom Price is willing to let 20+ million people go without health insurance, is willing to let an estimated 43,000 people die in one year without their ACA coverage, and is willing to prohibit the public and legislature from hearing the medical truth and ramifications of the GOP proposals.
The ANA and AMA do not want to see people needlessly suffer and/or not be take care of medically because they do not have insurance. The AHA does not want to see hospitals, especially rural hospitals close their doors, preventing farmers and rural folk from having nearby healthcare facilities.
Remember some smaller, rural hospitals are critical access hospitals, immediate interceptors of patients that need to be transferred for more intensive care. Without critical access, some patients acutely stricken may not survive.
It is time Republicans realize they have failed. They failed to have a healthcare plan for seven years, when they could have planned.
Now is the time for Republicans to work for the people.
39
@MIMA
Wonderful! This is one of the best comments I have read. Well written, fact based and logical. If only supporters of the Tax-Cut as Health-Care bill would read it, and take it for what it is.
Wonderful! This is one of the best comments I have read. Well written, fact based and logical. If only supporters of the Tax-Cut as Health-Care bill would read it, and take it for what it is.
1
Since when is Republican hypocrisy newsworthy?
14
When McConnell said "without input from anyone" he meant that voters and representatives were ignoring his profound and mindless obstructionism. Remember his pledge to make Obama a one-term president, and his turning the Republicans into the party of NO.
11
there is no comparison between D and R bills, not even the intention. no matter the trouble with aspects of it, the ACA was always intended to improve the lives of others with access to care and compassion, whereas whatever the other side is calling it, it will always be mean-spirited and designed to benefit those who won the birth lottery.
19
As sharp as this distinction is, it is also very biased in favor of the Republicans. At this point in the ACA, the Democrats were still fairly early in the process and planned many more sessions. The Republicans have tried to finish everything by now.
6
Nancy Pelosi in 2009 on Obamacare: "Now we have to pass the bill so you can see what is in it". Obamacare passed with all 60 Democrat votes in the Senate. There was not one Republican amendment to the bill accepted. Those are the facts, no matter how The Times chooses to spin them.
Of course, what Pelosi said was actually: "we have to pass the Bill so a few months from now, we can see what's in it clear of the fog of politics," but one cannot really expect the Right to describe anything fully and honestly.
It seems oddish that your position cannot be defended honestly, given how strong and true it is.
It seems oddish that your position cannot be defended honestly, given how strong and true it is.
22
@Paul: When I read comments like yours- I am reminded of the Fact that those who wish to believe a certain way- will do so no matter what. You are living proof.
21
This is what conservatives are reduced to: taking Pelosi's comments out of context and flat out lying. ~160 GOP amendments were included in the final Senate bill.
Are you intentionally being dishonest or are you just another victim of the RW propaganda machine?
Are you intentionally being dishonest or are you just another victim of the RW propaganda machine?
19
Consider this what it REALLY is--genocide by malign neglect to between 22 and 70 million fellow Americans (the latter figure when the Medicaid cuts are fully implemented).
The planning of earlier genocide efforts were rightly kept secret from the general population--and the world. The Nazis held the Wannsee Conference on January 20, 1942, to set forth the detailed implementation of the Final Solution. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wannsee_Conference
The Wannsee Conference and its resultant protocol were top-secret, but the protocol saw the light of day as a tool for the Nuremberg prosecution.
Considering the numbers, it's little wonder that Mitch McConnell and his colleagues in the Senate and Congress wanted to keep this secret. It's an atrocity waiting to happen.
The results won't be pretty once the "base" feels the effect of these proposals, if enacted. The "base" will be justly infuriated, and even Fox "News" propaganda may not work to stanch the rage and its results.
The planning of earlier genocide efforts were rightly kept secret from the general population--and the world. The Nazis held the Wannsee Conference on January 20, 1942, to set forth the detailed implementation of the Final Solution. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wannsee_Conference
The Wannsee Conference and its resultant protocol were top-secret, but the protocol saw the light of day as a tool for the Nuremberg prosecution.
Considering the numbers, it's little wonder that Mitch McConnell and his colleagues in the Senate and Congress wanted to keep this secret. It's an atrocity waiting to happen.
The results won't be pretty once the "base" feels the effect of these proposals, if enacted. The "base" will be justly infuriated, and even Fox "News" propaganda may not work to stanch the rage and its results.
7
When the Democrats were in the process of offering the ACA legislation, they held numerous public hearings over a period of months, heard testimony from numerous witnesses, allowed more than 160 House Republican amendments on the legislation and many amendments in the Senate -- and then Republicans then voted against their own amendments.
In crafting the so-called AHCA out of view of the American public, Republicans held no hearings, heard no witnesses and told the Democrats -- who by the way represent millions of American -- told the Democrats that their participation was not wanted in the legislative process and the should essentially just go away.
Would you consider the Republican legislative process to be good governing for the American people?" Bet that question never gets asked.
BTW, do not trust Johnson, Collins , Heller or any of the other Republican Senators who are expressing doubt about their AHCA legislation. It's a cover...they will vote this legislation out of the Senate, it will go to the House where Ryan will accept it in toto meaning no need for a conference committee and the House will pass it on a voice vote...
Republicans create nothing that benefits the American public; Republicans only destroy and they mean to destroy Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, the VA, EPA, Transportation, Education, civil rights for women, LGBT, the tax structure that benefits lower income Americans, healthcare, and the list goes on.
In crafting the so-called AHCA out of view of the American public, Republicans held no hearings, heard no witnesses and told the Democrats -- who by the way represent millions of American -- told the Democrats that their participation was not wanted in the legislative process and the should essentially just go away.
Would you consider the Republican legislative process to be good governing for the American people?" Bet that question never gets asked.
BTW, do not trust Johnson, Collins , Heller or any of the other Republican Senators who are expressing doubt about their AHCA legislation. It's a cover...they will vote this legislation out of the Senate, it will go to the House where Ryan will accept it in toto meaning no need for a conference committee and the House will pass it on a voice vote...
Republicans create nothing that benefits the American public; Republicans only destroy and they mean to destroy Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, the VA, EPA, Transportation, Education, civil rights for women, LGBT, the tax structure that benefits lower income Americans, healthcare, and the list goes on.
84
Thank you to the writers (and the graphics) for finally putting to bed-- the Lie coming from the mouths of the Republican Party: The Democrats "rammed through" The Affordable Care Act- with 60 votes. The article and graphics clearly dispel that lie and everyone should pay attention- even those who repeat the lie. Seeing is believing- unless the myopia is so severe, nothing will get through.
89
It is unconscionable to put politics and money above health and access to quality care. The way the Republicans have handled healthcare is such an incredible insult.
They do not care at all about the unaffordability of health insurance and will never lift a finger to ensure Americans have the wages or access to support what they're asking for. With the resources we have, to get this so wrong is preposterous.
They do not care at all about the unaffordability of health insurance and will never lift a finger to ensure Americans have the wages or access to support what they're asking for. With the resources we have, to get this so wrong is preposterous.
45
The Republican Party's healthcare agenda is simple: they need to perform on their promise to the fifty or so, ultra-wealthy donors who want lower taxes no matter the consequences. Having received billions of direct and indirect support from these same wealthy folks (organized and led by the Kochs) the Republicans have shown themselves to be willing to threaten the lives of tens of millions, destroy the lives of hundreds of thousands of Americans who will die or go bankrupt for the lack of insurance coverage.
The Kochs and their friends are very bright people. They know that taking health insurance (and, thus, healthcare access) is not popular. So they have hired the best PR folks in the land to spin the issue. These PR folks have shown themselves to be fearless liars. They falsely claim that Republican behavior is the same as Democratic behavior (i.e. no consultation, deals done in the dark of night), they attack, attack, attack -- the CBO, the Democrats, the news media, etc. and they generally manage and control the national dialogue as best they can with one outrageous distraction after another. (The same team manages the climate change debate.)
This article shows the truth. It won't matter to most Americans because the spin doctors will assure that Fox and the other outlets are distracted by lies, constantly repeated and often shouted into the public domain. As the liar-in-chief so often tweets, "SAD."
The Kochs and their friends are very bright people. They know that taking health insurance (and, thus, healthcare access) is not popular. So they have hired the best PR folks in the land to spin the issue. These PR folks have shown themselves to be fearless liars. They falsely claim that Republican behavior is the same as Democratic behavior (i.e. no consultation, deals done in the dark of night), they attack, attack, attack -- the CBO, the Democrats, the news media, etc. and they generally manage and control the national dialogue as best they can with one outrageous distraction after another. (The same team manages the climate change debate.)
This article shows the truth. It won't matter to most Americans because the spin doctors will assure that Fox and the other outlets are distracted by lies, constantly repeated and often shouted into the public domain. As the liar-in-chief so often tweets, "SAD."
106
"Liar-in-chief"? No, head of the Trump Crime Family, which intends to install itself as our new monarchy.
6
People claim that the Republicans only serve the 1%, but it instructive that they don't even support all of that group. Merely the most miserly and, yes, 'mean' part of it.
2
Maybe a year ago I would have agreed with this in spirit but thought it cynical and an exaggeration. Not now, it is spot on.
1