Poor subway service is bad for business. I just dropped a class because it ended at rush hour and being on the Lexington line in midtown was not worth the grief.
That school just lost a grand. I'll study at home. My example is pale compared to those who arrive late at work each day due to delays.
We need MORE trains. I remember not so long ago when on the 1,2,3 line at rush hour, one train sat 100 feet behind the one leaving the station, and crawled in right after.
This way we weren't packed completely like cattle. Now, at rush hour you can wait 5-8 minutes for a train. by that time the platform is dangerously crowded, not to mention the train itself.
The subway are the lungs of the city and we're all short of breath.
That school just lost a grand. I'll study at home. My example is pale compared to those who arrive late at work each day due to delays.
We need MORE trains. I remember not so long ago when on the 1,2,3 line at rush hour, one train sat 100 feet behind the one leaving the station, and crawled in right after.
This way we weren't packed completely like cattle. Now, at rush hour you can wait 5-8 minutes for a train. by that time the platform is dangerously crowded, not to mention the train itself.
The subway are the lungs of the city and we're all short of breath.
6
Train breaks down in Harlem and NOT one single elected official in Harlem had anything to say about this. Could it be because the local Assembly Member Inez Dickens has no idea what train lines are in her district? Or, the fact she never takes public transportation?
5
So the line that has clearly performed the best over the most recent years is the one that's getting shut down entirely for an extended period soon? There must really be some bad stuff going on in that tunnel, which I don't doubt, but it gives a good frame of reference to how screwed the entire system really is.
1
You'd think having a President that is a lifelong inhabitant of New York City that one of his major priorities would be to send some money to redo the subway system of his home city, not likely, unless Trump can get piece of the action.........
1
The trains were as crowded in the sixties but there are a few significant differences today: (1) fewer trains in rush hour - operator safety restrictions that have been instituted in the last 20 years or so prevent them from running the 30 trains per hour that were run years ago; (2) disruptive passenger behavior is tolerated (and therefore encouraged): to wit, the constant re-opening of doors when someone jumps in their way as they are closing, knowing full well that the conductor will re-open them. There was a time when this wouldn't happen, and passengers knew not to try it because the doors would not be reopened and they'd have to extricate themselves to allow the doors to close. A modification in this passenger behavior would have a significant effect on dwell time and allow faster service. It's a vicious cycle - I remember years ago you would let the doors close because there was a train right behind.
2
All fascinating... BUT the trouble started when the second avenue line opened.
1
I have to say that this was entirely predictable: non-stop development of high density housing near transportation hubs during the last 20 years and a practice, of absolutely no long term city planning for transportation, schools or anything else that is necessary to accommodate so many people. Neighborhoods gentrify and there are no schools, day care, parking spaces, to support this growth. Go to a community board meeting and you'll see what I mean. Community boards vote against building that isn't planned for and the city (landmarks especially) overrides it. Citizen voices are powerless to promote the public good because they have only an advisory role! Real estate development is supported by ridiculous tax abatements to developers and new residents. This means that there is no money in the budget for badly needed transportation infrastructure. In this economy developers gotta' get their tax breaks as do luxury condo owners. Why isn't there any money for what is needed to improve the lives of ordinary people? I think it's time to take a critical look at the tax structure to see how politicians and developers benefit from this sorry state of affairs.
8
Ok, NYT, but do you understand WHY the trains are overcrowded??
Because
1) we don't know when the heck the next train is coming (could be 15 minutes) and we all want to get home. especially those of us in the outer boroughs (like me, in BX)
2) there are signal problems
3) workers are absent/not doing their jobs
4) old system means large space between trains.
And may I add on to the chorus of seeing huddles of MTA workers doing absolutely nothing on tracks during supposed periods of "track work" in which lines get shut down (so much for that 24/7/365 service MTA sputters about when asked about problems). When the A train crashed yesterday there were next to no MTA workers, only FDNY came to rescue us after two hours in a hot train. The transit workers union needs to be destroyed. It protects incompetence day in, day out.
Because
1) we don't know when the heck the next train is coming (could be 15 minutes) and we all want to get home. especially those of us in the outer boroughs (like me, in BX)
2) there are signal problems
3) workers are absent/not doing their jobs
4) old system means large space between trains.
And may I add on to the chorus of seeing huddles of MTA workers doing absolutely nothing on tracks during supposed periods of "track work" in which lines get shut down (so much for that 24/7/365 service MTA sputters about when asked about problems). When the A train crashed yesterday there were next to no MTA workers, only FDNY came to rescue us after two hours in a hot train. The transit workers union needs to be destroyed. It protects incompetence day in, day out.
1
I disagree with #4. The signals work the same as they did 50 years ago (except where they have been modernized, as on the L line) and 50 years ago there were better headways. Operating rules have changed and slow zones have been created to reduce the chances of operator error (started in the late 60's, I believe, with a collision outside Roosevelt Avenue where an empty local being operated from the second car ran into a train crossing over ahead of it). Then there was the J train on the Williamsburg Bridge that keyed by a red signal and couldn't stop in time ("legal" at the time). Then the southbound Lexington Avenue express whose motorman took a crossover north of 14th Street too fast (the signaling let him do that) and crashed. So rules and speeds have been tightened up. This is not about the age of the signal system, but the carelessness of a few train operators.
1
Don Delillo in a stunning passage in his novel Libra, wrote of the subway, 'the train smashed thru the dark', but he was talking about the 60's. Now we say the trains crawl thru the darkness and we just hope they make it to the next station so we're not stuck in the dark. Or derailed.
The Census Bureau says that the U.S. population will be 417 million by 2060. More than 80 million of these residents will be foreign-born and therefore the New York metro area would be a logical place for them to settle. So New York's population growth should be faster than the country's and therefore the demands on the subway system will be much larger than today.
Here's a modest proposal: Charge customers by volume (or at least width/circumference?). If the taller/heavier people are encouraged to walk instead (but maybe the sidewalks will also be totally clogged by then and we'll need to have congestion pricing for walking?), that will free up space on the subway for the short/slender.
[Source: https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2015/demo/p25-1143.html ]
Here's a modest proposal: Charge customers by volume (or at least width/circumference?). If the taller/heavier people are encouraged to walk instead (but maybe the sidewalks will also be totally clogged by then and we'll need to have congestion pricing for walking?), that will free up space on the subway for the short/slender.
[Source: https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2015/demo/p25-1143.html ]
This is only a part of the problem,but...the city has allowed so many speculative,high rise buildings to be built,all over the place,with no thought of the infrastructure that will have to serve these people....even if half of them are speculators who will rarely reside here. What kind of city do we want,or will function well,going into the future ? Working class people are the backbone of any city,and need to get to work on time,traveling from increasingly far flung parts of the city to get to their jobs. Put your thinkng caps on,leaders,and see the bigger picture....
8
Are you kidding? Overcrowding is the problem with our transit system? Not an outdated signal system that is always breaking down, not the old trains, not the infrastructure that needs repair. I was at a the Franklin subway stop in Brooklyn a month or so ago right after a huge chunk of cement fell out of the ceiling and landed on the roof of a 2 (or 3) train that had pulled into the station. There were pieces of cement scattered on the platform. Don't know if anyone got hurt but it put the 2,3 line out of service there for quite some time. This article sounds a little like propaganda from the MTA before they raise the rates again. What would be more informative would be an article/investigation on exactly how much money the MTA spends and how much they receive. I see the amount of money our company pays in MTA tax every year, it is no small amount, that and State and City funding plus the ridership fees and yet the system is falling apart.
6
No matter what the exchange rate, my London friends are astounded by how inexpensive a ride on a NYC subway is. Maybe if we saw the raise in fares go to major infrastructure upgrades and fixes, we wouldn't complain about an increase.
I'd trade in the NYC subway for the London subway any day. Yes, the London system is more expensive (fares charged by distance) but train service there is excellent in comparison. If the NYC system was as frequent as London's, we'd be willing to pay extra for it.
3
And don't forget to add 10 minutes to your ride to get in and out of every station.
1
Maybe if all the MTA money didn't go to a bloated workforce of overpaid and underworked employees there would be enough to pay for new signals, tracks, and subway cars. Seem this never gets mentioned.
9
Put Hillary Clinton in charge of subway. Seriously. We always hear from her supporters how brilliant and capable she is. Let's see some practical application
6
There are other ways of getting riders around NYC besides the subway. Why have we not developed high speed west side ferries running with the following stops: Inwood Marina, GWB, 125th, 79 st Boat basin, Shipping terminal, Chelsea piers, Greenwich village, Battery park? A high speed ferry can run at 20-30 mph. This would be a pleasant and efficient way of using our waterways to offload the heaviest north sound west side lines.
ross: "A high speed ferry can run at 20-30 mph."
Please cite a reliable source saying what speed is PRACTICAL on the Hudson. BTW, you also need to consider passenger capacity and the corresponding times to board and deboard.
Please cite a reliable source saying what speed is PRACTICAL on the Hudson. BTW, you also need to consider passenger capacity and the corresponding times to board and deboard.
2
Trains are a mess! Express bus is good alternative but MTA keeps cutting back the schedules claiming low ridership. Of course, if buses run too infrequently people won't use them. Solution: more frequent buses from the outer boros, lower fares on them, and passenger pick-ups instead of running empty buses. Smaller buses during non-rush hours would help save on gas and lower pollution.
2
Lets be real here and not just mimic the MTA's party line. There are plenty of "factors" that go into the series of daily delays, but the State's disinvestment in the system is the real culprit here. There is no plan to fund the Capital Budget or expand capacity. The Governor routinely raids Transit's coffers to pay for shiny things like cashless tolling at MTA bridges and tunnels. Or to pay for useless things like the train to LGA via Willets point.
On the issue of factors, your own Lisa Foderaro reported on another significant one, the steep decline in Mean Distance Between Failure (MDBF) for subway cars. That is, how far a car goes before it breaks down. From her article on May 22:
"..., subway cars are breaking down faster. The average distance traveled between breakdowns is about 112,000 miles, down from 200,000 in November 2010. The authority, in its defense, points out that the current rate remains a staggering improvement from 1981, when the mean distance between failures was 7,000 miles."
So in seven years, one basic measure of reliability has dropped a staggering 44%. Also, it is very hard to fudge MDBF figures. The MTA can throw lots into the catch all "overcrowding" category, but this number is real and measurable.
What's the plan, Governor Cuomo?
On the issue of factors, your own Lisa Foderaro reported on another significant one, the steep decline in Mean Distance Between Failure (MDBF) for subway cars. That is, how far a car goes before it breaks down. From her article on May 22:
"..., subway cars are breaking down faster. The average distance traveled between breakdowns is about 112,000 miles, down from 200,000 in November 2010. The authority, in its defense, points out that the current rate remains a staggering improvement from 1981, when the mean distance between failures was 7,000 miles."
So in seven years, one basic measure of reliability has dropped a staggering 44%. Also, it is very hard to fudge MDBF figures. The MTA can throw lots into the catch all "overcrowding" category, but this number is real and measurable.
What's the plan, Governor Cuomo?
2
The original IRT was built in something like three years, in a city that was much less wealthy than it is today. Since then, the City and State have taken 50 years to add only a handful of stations.
The problem is simple: the City and State have refused to make more than a token investment (sorry) in building new lines since the private subway companies -- which, believe it or not, were eager to build and would have remained profitable had the City allowed them to charge a reasonable fare -- were forced out of business.
There is no mystery in what it takes to add new lines and rolling stock, extend station and train length, and modernize signals. But we are told that it will take 50 years merely to modernize the signals, a figure that is absurd, as the whole system could be upgraded in four or five, and the Second Avenue subway remains for the most part a dream.
It all amounts to the same thing: The politicians don't want to spend the money, and so they make endless excuses and drag things out.
Sadly, transportation is central to the economic well-being of the City, which is the economic engine of the State. City and State are eating their seed corn.
The problem is simple: the City and State have refused to make more than a token investment (sorry) in building new lines since the private subway companies -- which, believe it or not, were eager to build and would have remained profitable had the City allowed them to charge a reasonable fare -- were forced out of business.
There is no mystery in what it takes to add new lines and rolling stock, extend station and train length, and modernize signals. But we are told that it will take 50 years merely to modernize the signals, a figure that is absurd, as the whole system could be upgraded in four or five, and the Second Avenue subway remains for the most part a dream.
It all amounts to the same thing: The politicians don't want to spend the money, and so they make endless excuses and drag things out.
Sadly, transportation is central to the economic well-being of the City, which is the economic engine of the State. City and State are eating their seed corn.
6
• For the period March 2013 through March 2014, Subways reported 498,889 total delays. We reviewed four categories of delays (Right of Way, Employee, Track Gangs, and Car Equipment) that resulted in 269,008 (or 53.9 percent) of the delays to determine the actions Subways took to address their causes and reduce their occurrence. In most cases, Subways took appropriate actions to address individual incidents as they occurred. However, Subways lacked a formal process to assess the underlying causes of the delays and develop comprehensive corrective action plans to help minimize them.
• According to Subways officials, there are multiple workgroups and committees (including a Delay Management Workgroup) dedicated to improving service and reducing delays. In addition, there are monthly reviews of operational performance performed by the Office of the Senior Vice President. Yet, there was no evidence that any workgroup, committee, or office developed formal plans or programs to communicate initiatives to address the root causes of delays and improve OTP.
(SOURCE: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=w... )
• According to Subways officials, there are multiple workgroups and committees (including a Delay Management Workgroup) dedicated to improving service and reducing delays. In addition, there are monthly reviews of operational performance performed by the Office of the Senior Vice President. Yet, there was no evidence that any workgroup, committee, or office developed formal plans or programs to communicate initiatives to address the root causes of delays and improve OTP.
(SOURCE: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=w... )
2
Too. Many. People.
3
It seems like the USA is stuck in the past and not taking into account all of the cheap international travel that causes an increase in visitor numbers to New York. You can't expect the homeowner - taxpayers of New York - to carry the burden of New York infrastructure maintenance and upgrades.
You need to introduce a G.S.T. tax ,(Goods and Services Tax), to pay for all the infrastructure wear and tear and maintenance, caused by the large volumes of people coming and going from New York. That's the only solution to pay for an ageing infrastructure crisis that no one wants to face the reality of. G.S.T. tax would probably pay for additional toilets, new subways, vehicle tunnels and flyovers, as well.
You need to introduce a G.S.T. tax ,(Goods and Services Tax), to pay for all the infrastructure wear and tear and maintenance, caused by the large volumes of people coming and going from New York. That's the only solution to pay for an ageing infrastructure crisis that no one wants to face the reality of. G.S.T. tax would probably pay for additional toilets, new subways, vehicle tunnels and flyovers, as well.
4
When they tried to implement a commuters' tax, you'd think they were trying to make murder legal. The commuters said they pumped money into the city economy during the workweek via purchases. and that more than made up for not wanting to pay a tax. Sure they pay the transit fare that gets them here, but we all know a ot of that money doesn't get put back in the infrastructure.
4
Let's not do the whole "could take decades to roll out" schtick; that gives Gov. Cuomo an article (in the Newspaper of Record, too) that he can point to when he continues not to deliver on proper capital spending for transit. Anyone who hasn't read Nick Paumgarten's 2nd Ave. subway piece in The New Yorker (and there's a shorter one by James Surowiecki, and they're both excellent) should do so; it's very enlightening. The fact that it costs so much per track mile to build subway lines in New York is not just down to density; a big portion of it is mismanagement and exorbitant spending on stations (and anyone who's been in one of those Q stations on the UES—which are never full to capacity, not even close—will know what I'm talking about: they're gigantic!).
In Paris they manage three-minute headways (headway being the time between trains at a given station), and there's no reason that New York can't do that if we get some proper 21st-century signaling technology in place. They're putting CBTC in on the 7 line this year, so it'll be interesting to see the results of that. God knows they need it on that line.
And people, move with some purpose when you're getting on and off; this is New York, for god's sake! Chop chop, folks! Reminds me of the way people shuffle on and off the always-late bus when I go and visit family and friends down in the South. Oh, and stop holding the doors for your friends (or yourself) when you're running late, would you please?
In Paris they manage three-minute headways (headway being the time between trains at a given station), and there's no reason that New York can't do that if we get some proper 21st-century signaling technology in place. They're putting CBTC in on the 7 line this year, so it'll be interesting to see the results of that. God knows they need it on that line.
And people, move with some purpose when you're getting on and off; this is New York, for god's sake! Chop chop, folks! Reminds me of the way people shuffle on and off the always-late bus when I go and visit family and friends down in the South. Oh, and stop holding the doors for your friends (or yourself) when you're running late, would you please?
3
Exiting and entering? Worse in Boston.
I find the Paris and London systems to be delights.
I find the Paris and London systems to be delights.
1
Forget 3-minute headways (which major lines currently have during part of the peak periods). Back in the 60's, every major trunk line ran with 2-minute headways (combined - for example, 4 minutes for the #4 and 4 minutes for the #5). On the #7, it was 33 trains per hour, and on the E/F it was 34 TPH for an hour in the AM. Back in the 20's, I believe, the IRT ran with 90 second headways, if you can believe that.
One word: Cars. (Eliminate them.) I remember the bad old days and then in the 1990's and 2000's everyone was saying the subways were so good andd never broke down. Ho did this happen again? (Yes, ui know the story is about overcrowding.) To me the solution is diversification. Troilley cars. But job one is getting all the cars out of the city. GET THE CARS OUT OF THE CITY. The whole City. Then start planning.
2
The reason the "L" line was chosen for ATC (Automatic Train Control / CBTC, Communications Based Train Control) was that it is operationally simple. Very simple. A two-track railroad. At "91%" it is just barely missing its goal of 91.9% OTP (On Time Performance).
Why would management take the position that it is abjectly failing to meet a KEY goal by blaming customers (whose conduct is beyond their direct control): By blaming the victim they are off the hook internally; in this biz this is known as "impossible to control".
The NYT video time-lapse shows the EFFECT of mismanagement not a CAUSE of delays.
For more on OTP here is an excerpt from a report from the NYS Comptroller:
Key Findings
• For calendar years 2013 and 2014, Subways’ reports show actual OTP was well below the goal of 91.9 percent. For 2013, weekday OTP averaged 80.5 percent and weekend OTP averaged 85.4 percent. For 2014, weekday OTP averaged 74.0 percent and weekend OTP averaged 81.2 percent. On balance, there has been a persistent decline in OTP during the period.
(Continued)
Why would management take the position that it is abjectly failing to meet a KEY goal by blaming customers (whose conduct is beyond their direct control): By blaming the victim they are off the hook internally; in this biz this is known as "impossible to control".
The NYT video time-lapse shows the EFFECT of mismanagement not a CAUSE of delays.
For more on OTP here is an excerpt from a report from the NYS Comptroller:
Key Findings
• For calendar years 2013 and 2014, Subways’ reports show actual OTP was well below the goal of 91.9 percent. For 2013, weekday OTP averaged 80.5 percent and weekend OTP averaged 85.4 percent. For 2014, weekday OTP averaged 74.0 percent and weekend OTP averaged 81.2 percent. On balance, there has been a persistent decline in OTP during the period.
(Continued)
This is an insane article. Have some critical thought. The problems are labor and signal related. Run more trains more frequently. Crowding is an insane excuse - see Tokyo. Or London. The Subway ran with more riders in the 50s and 30s. Its 60+ years later. Insane insane article giving the MTA, its leadership and our governor an unreasonable out.
9
To say the fault lies with overcrowding and not the ancient signalling system utterly misses the point IMO. Yes, there are more riders. But the reason trains are more overcrowded is that absolutely nothing has been done for decades to increase capacity. Signals are too old to enable trains to run closer together. Between-station trains speeds have not increased because signals, track and many trains are too decrepit. Shorter platforms have not been lengthened to enable longer trains to run on some lines. This is not rocket science. Cities the world over have responded to increased train ridership by modernizing infrastructure to run more frequent, faster, and longer trains. And, heck, more riders means more fare revenue. In NYC evidently it's better to just complain that there are too many people rather than blame the underlying reasons that overcrowding has been allowed to occur int eh first place. I really hope "overcrowding" doesn't become the excuse the MTA keeps parroting for its abominable service.
27
The signals in the 30's thru the 70's allowed trains to operate at 2 minute intervals. The reason they don't anymore is that a series of operator-caused accidents resulted in (1) the elimination of "keying by" by operators, which was common practice, and allowed trains to move closer together; (2) many instances of resetting of timers to create slow zones to prevent operator error; (3) conductors apparently being instructed to open and reopen doors whenever a passenger blocks them, dramatically increasing dwell time. If this was stopped, passengers would know they had to release the doors without forcing their way on. Probably has to do with hysterical complaints about people potentially being dragged, caught in doors. Was never a problem in the early days.
1
On top of the sheer number of riders, it is easy to overlook that people today are physically larger, and generally carry larger bags onto public transportation.
12
Kennedy challenged America to go to the moon. The next leader will challenge America to build high speed trains, 100 mpg cars, and self-driving cars. Fast transportation makes the world smaller.
My questions -- if ridership is equal to what it was back in the 1940s, what did this all look like in the then? How do they compare, in terms of resources available and passenger miles and things like that? Weren't there many fewer people living in New York City at that time? Curious minds want to know!
2
One of the major differences between today and the 40's is that back then the rush hour ridership was far greater, and off hour ridership far less, especially weekends (except Saturday morning, when people were still working.) So you had a system that was geared to provide maximum rush hour service, which meant a greater number of passenger cars than they need today, where rush hour ridership is not as great but midday and (especially) weekend ridership is higher. Fewer people were commuting from the suburbs and more from the outer boroughs than today.
2
Overcrowding at the Fulton Street station is exaccerbated by the (re)design of the station. When the A/C platform was renovated they added too many staircases between the platform and the mezzanine level. There is literally almost no place to stand, even when the platform is nearly empty. they could greatly improve crowding and passenger flow by removing two of the staircases.
2
Attack the problem at both ends. One, invest in modernization of our city's infrastructure. Our city is a global economic powerhouse. That it runs on outdated transportation infrastructure is embarrassing and wasteful. Two, conduct a full and complete audit of the MTA's finances. It makes no sense to throw money into an agency that might be, shall we say, "leaking" in interesting ways.
Ultimately, this is what happens to a nation where a large segment of voters view "government" as a problem, and care more about "tax cuts" than investing in the stability and progress of their own nation.
Ultimately, this is what happens to a nation where a large segment of voters view "government" as a problem, and care more about "tax cuts" than investing in the stability and progress of their own nation.
1
Why can't they run more trains? Because the control system is so antiquated. Better technology would allow more trains to be run closer together. So I disagree with the author's argument that the problem is more riders. The problem is not updating the system to be able to handle more riders. America has become a "can't do" country.
3
The growth in high rise development has been astronomical the last 10 years. It is a given that with more working and living spaces comes more people using the mass transportation. We all need to pitch in to modernize the system. Some of us dislike paying taxes, but sure know how to cry wolf when the system breaks down!
2
When our politicians imitate CEOs and use helicopters to avoid bad traffic, what incentive do they have to invest in mass transportation or roads ?
Also one has to wonder at what point people will opt to live out of New York, if there is so much overcrowding, and infrastructure shows no sign of being upgraded to 21st century standards.
Also one has to wonder at what point people will opt to live out of New York, if there is so much overcrowding, and infrastructure shows no sign of being upgraded to 21st century standards.
3
So the data, provided by the MTA, completely absolves the MTA of any blame for the problem they are so clearly causing with their gross neglect of the system. That's very convenient for them.
I was recently taking the Q downtown and got to witness the wonderous speed with which track repairs get done. Wonderous, that is, because quite literally NOTHING was being done. There were 20-30 workers either sleeping in trucks, eating in trucks, or standing in circles talking. Whether or not this was because they did not have anything to do or because they were not doing what they were being paid to do, these all too common situations waste both man hours and immense amounts of money.
The truth of the matter is that the people are completely and utterly powerless in this situation. We rely on the MTA to get us to work, school, home, etc. You won't know there's a delay until you've already swiped in, so they already have your money. All we can do is post angry comments online.
I was recently taking the Q downtown and got to witness the wonderous speed with which track repairs get done. Wonderous, that is, because quite literally NOTHING was being done. There were 20-30 workers either sleeping in trucks, eating in trucks, or standing in circles talking. Whether or not this was because they did not have anything to do or because they were not doing what they were being paid to do, these all too common situations waste both man hours and immense amounts of money.
The truth of the matter is that the people are completely and utterly powerless in this situation. We rely on the MTA to get us to work, school, home, etc. You won't know there's a delay until you've already swiped in, so they already have your money. All we can do is post angry comments online.
13
AB: "There were 20-30 workers either sleeping in trucks, eating in trucks, or standing in circles talking."
It sounds like they were on their lunch or rest breaks. Did you happen to note the TIME?
It sounds like they were on their lunch or rest breaks. Did you happen to note the TIME?
I just returned from Moscow, and I can tell you that Governor Cuomo could take a trip to see how subways should be run. The stations are spacious and clean, and trains run every few minutes, each trip costs less than a dollar, and there are over 2.5 billion rides taken annually on their metro relative to about 1.8 taken on the NYC subway. Obviously they have no problems with overcrowding.
9
And yet the mayor continues to encourage higher and higher density and ignore the very real over crowding on the subways. The Natural History Museum is now going through an EIS (Environmental Impact Statement) WHERE IN IT is CLAIMED THAT THE ADDITON OF 750,000 visitors will have no significant impact on the quality of life in the surrounding area. With the subways already at peak or over peak capacity how are these people supposed to get to the museum...car or bus? According to the EIS that won't cause any significant negative impact either! City agencies no longer deal with realities. They accept the fantasies cooked up by applicants whether it's the Natural History Musum or other well connected developers and the public be damned. The taxpayers and residents of this City are being ill served by the very officials whose legislative mandate is to protect their interests.
5
Why aren't there employees on the platform in stations that are bottlenecks helping to get people on and off the train as quickly as possible?
How would they do this? By yelling and using electric cattle prods?
1
Jay Walder ruined the system by loading certain corridors with the new M line which now has right of way over every line and the E train which is constantly delayed by signals that fail before the stations. The solution according to past MTA & and subway bosses is to play that snarky message that alludes to train traffic ahead of us which is a bold faced prevarication. I have never voted for Cuomo and never will based on his cavalier attitude about the MTA and his hubris in tolerating the last two MTA chiefs while Rome burned. I believe that the signal problem is system wide and will result ultimately in a catastrophe if this isn't addressed soon. And further they may need MTSB intervention; either that or bring back Spitzer & his ladies of the evening(he was a better governor).
3
The solution is for the City to invest the money needed to modernize the trains and scheduling equipment. Taking the LIRR into the city from my bay house in Brookhaven has become a nightmare.
1
What I cannot understand is that if there are 6 million riders a day where does all the money go? If every rider paid only $1 per ride the MTA would bring in $2,190,000,000 per year (two billion, one hundred ninety million). Even that amount seems like it would be enough to make the needed updates to the system.
5
JM: "... where does all the money go?"
Good question. The Times never uses the word "revenue" in this article or a previous one, so I was forced to do my own research.
For the MTA 2017 Adopted Budget, revenue is $15,565 million and expenses are $15,754 million. Payroll accounts for 32% of expenses. See the pie charts on page II-1 for the details.
MTA budgets are here:
http://web.mta.info/mta/budget/
For the record, this is the previous article:
Key to Improving Subway Service in New York? Modern Signals
By EMMA G. FITZSIMMONS
MAY 1, 2017
Good question. The Times never uses the word "revenue" in this article or a previous one, so I was forced to do my own research.
For the MTA 2017 Adopted Budget, revenue is $15,565 million and expenses are $15,754 million. Payroll accounts for 32% of expenses. See the pie charts on page II-1 for the details.
MTA budgets are here:
http://web.mta.info/mta/budget/
For the record, this is the previous article:
Key to Improving Subway Service in New York? Modern Signals
By EMMA G. FITZSIMMONS
MAY 1, 2017
1
It would be interesting to compare numbers between cities like London Paris Tokyo, relative to budget for subways, capacity, users, incidents and performance.
The under investment in collective transportation by politics has to be examined.
Also, NYC subway is for me the most noisy piece of public heavy machinery anywhere in the world really.
The under investment in collective transportation by politics has to be examined.
Also, NYC subway is for me the most noisy piece of public heavy machinery anywhere in the world really.
3
Notice that performance remained best on the L line (91%), despite record growth of ridership on that line. Why? That's where the most service has been added, as have new cars and signals. If the MTA did the same on all the lines, "overcrowding" wouldn't be a problem!
2
The L line has the luxury of no merging with other lines, and a limited number of transfer stations which generate higher passenger traffic.
1
Yes, the solutions of running more trains, building more lines and modernizing controls will take years to implement. But they will only take longer if Cuomo continues to wait.
5
I remember when I was a kid in 1965 during the Great Blackout. Johnny Carson was still in NY and my brother and I were allowed to stay up late on Friday nights to watch him - just like adults. In order to explain the blackout, he had a fast-talking official on from Con Ed, who blamed it on the banks. It was the banks' fault because every time someone opened an account, they would be given a new toaster, electric can opener or other appliance, until the grid could no longer stand the strain. I was so proud of myself that, at my young age, I was able to appreciate that this guy was a phony. Unfortunately, the MTA is using the same argument, blaming the consumer and these guys are for real.
4
I just cancelled my yoga membership in the city because many times I've woken up at 4.45 AM to make the 6.30 AM class at 23rd Street from my home in Brooklyn, and the C train at my station never arrived/ had signal problems. And I can't handle the overcrowded (another by-product of an exponentially larger city population?) evening classes. I'm looking into options like the ferry and ridesharing, because the delay situation has gotten so acute: there's some form of delay, 5-25 mins, each and every day. And our Slack channel at work is full of live-messaged complaints from staff about commutes. I don't see a happy end to any of this in my lifetime.
2
"... at 23rd Street from my home in Brooklyn ..."
Can't you find any yoga classes in Brooklyn?
"... I can't handle the overcrowded (another by-product of an exponentially larger city population?) evening classes."
Presumably, people who work during the day have to attend "evening classes".
Can't you find any yoga classes in Brooklyn?
"... I can't handle the overcrowded (another by-product of an exponentially larger city population?) evening classes."
Presumably, people who work during the day have to attend "evening classes".
2
"... our Slack channel at work ..."
Where do you work and how do you get there?
Where do you work and how do you get there?
Maybe if the Major and Governor can stop bickering and agree that our train/subway infrastructure is literally the lifeblood of NYC we can get actual change.
People-movers like subway systems facilitate commerce, reduce deaths (car,bus,bike traffic), and help keep our streets clean.
Why "the greatest city in the world" has one of the single most embarrassing transportation systems is beyond me.
People-movers like subway systems facilitate commerce, reduce deaths (car,bus,bike traffic), and help keep our streets clean.
Why "the greatest city in the world" has one of the single most embarrassing transportation systems is beyond me.
2
As an ex-New Yorker and long time resident of California cities I can assure you that we suffer the same frustrations and indignities except it's in our cars on dangerously jammed polluting freeways. Poor planning, bizarre pricing (freeways are more often not free) limited alternatives and toxic air quality issues. You have my sympathies.
1
the simple solution is to rise the fare by another 25 to 50 cents, which will discourage the riders especially the ones who only travel a couple of stations(not the monthly card), and at the same time generate more revenue for maintenance.
JT, my guess is that the people who buy single ride tickets to go a couple of stops are actually generating revenue for the system. It's the heavy usage by monthly card holders that probably causes more stress to the system.
3
you r right. The best would be to charge according to the miles, which has been the case in many other cities, but it requires a fairly big upgrade of the infrastructure. For now a price hike would always be helpful, and the monthly card guys should pay even more because of their heavy usage as well as inelastic demand.
What is the cost of new trains vs. the labor to operate the trains? My guess is that the latter dwarfs the former. Maybe we could double the number of trains on the tracks by automating the driver's job and making drivers into the door operator/conductor role. An autonomous train has to be easier to program than an autonomous car, and those are already navigating roads around the US.
1
"Overcrowding now accounts for more than one-third of the nearly 75,000 subway delays across the system each month." What about the other reasons for the delays? Where is the other two thirds of this article?
5
I commute from Union Square to Grand Central on the 4, 5, 6. I think the 2nd Ave line has relieved the crowding at Grand Central station. That said, the subway is still in dire need of an upgrade. It's crazy that for all the taxes people in NYC pay, we can't get money to improve subway system.
Maybe we can eventually tackle climate control in the stations. The platforms in the summer are just brutal.
Maybe we can eventually tackle climate control in the stations. The platforms in the summer are just brutal.
3
I rarely take mass transit, but I did a couple of weeks ago to take a walk across the Williamsburg Bridge for lunch at Peter Luger's in Brooklyn. Our MetroNorth railroad was 40 mintues late into Grand Central due to "an incident on the tracks that required police response". But the incident was 10 miles north of North White Plains where most MetroNorth trains originate. Then the subway was running sporadically due to "water on the tracks". Where? Who knows. The public address announcer thought it wasn't necessary to provide that information. So we took the jammed packed local to our stop. We were able to walk over the Williamburg Bridge faster than the subway ride from Grand Central. The subway tracks were filthy, and the air conditioning was not functioning on the train. How do people do this every day? I feel sorry for New Yorkers who are forced to use mass transit.
3
the premise of this article is that overcrowding is causing the delays. Yet, the graphic shows that of all the lines, the L is by far the most reliable. It's certainly as crowded if not more so, than some of those other lines, so why is it so much more reliable?
Is it just a coincidence that the L was the first line to receive a modern ATC signalling system? I think not.
Is it just a coincidence that the L was the first line to receive a modern ATC signalling system? I think not.
60
The L line does not share tracks with any other line. That accounts for a large percentage of its reliability.
2
It's definitely not a coincidence, the L (and the 7) are receiving the new signalling because they were the only two lines that do not share tracks with any other lines at any point. The L doesn't even have any express-local switching to contend with. I suppose it's this very simple back and forth, end to end operation that contributed to its on time performance, although a broken down train can still ruin one's commute!
1
Plus it only has six stations with connections to other lines. Transfer stations generate more passenger traffic, with lots of people exiting to change trains.
Americans might give consideration to why it is that St Petersburg and Moscow, Oslo and Stockholm, Beijing & Singapore, indeed most places in advanced countries outside the US have clean, modern, efficient transport leaving on time from beautiful stations, safe and well maintained, just as they have lovely, modern airports with excellent amenities and flights that depart on schedule. Just like healthcare and gun crime, America's transportation situation is unique, and not in a good way.
2
Just on the Beijing/Singapore bit: uh, maybe their infrastructure looks so gleaming and new because those places built their infrastructure so recently. Oh, and the tiny little issue that in neither of those places do laborers exactly get paid their due. Those comparisons are facile and drive me nuts.
As to the Russian and Scandinavian systems, that's a better comparison, and there are indeed reasons—a whole complex web of them—why those places do so much better. Your comment didn't actually make clear what it is you're talking about, but sure, the fact that the public sector is larger and public transit more widely used is certainly one of many reasons they do so much better than we do.
As to the Russian and Scandinavian systems, that's a better comparison, and there are indeed reasons—a whole complex web of them—why those places do so much better. Your comment didn't actually make clear what it is you're talking about, but sure, the fact that the public sector is larger and public transit more widely used is certainly one of many reasons they do so much better than we do.
Think of the squandered trillions we spent on the two recent wars, and how our infrastructure would be now if we had spent that money more wisely.
6
Not you too New York!? To me it's really unfair to treat millions of workers and tax payers this way. Our entire economy is dependent on people getting to their jobs. How are we going to grow and improve our economy when decision makers squabble over how to invest in said economy. Research has shown conclusively that mass transit IS an economic booster.
4
I think it's time we consider congestion pricing. Perhaps MTA can sell metrocards at a 25% discount for use between 10am and 4pm, 10pm and 6 am. During weekdays there are people who perhaps can travel later - tourists being one example. Many may adjust their schedules to enjoy lower fares, which would be quite enticing in a city where the only price which ever decreases is maybe a pizza slice.
5
What the timing of this chart also coincides with is the sharp rise in Manhattan rents. In the 90s, for example, I lived on the UWS. I rarely got on a subway as the bulk of my work and activities were concentrated in that area. Then the rents began to double in the span of a couple of years and I was priced out of my home. Today, living in Astoria, I cannot go anywhere without getting on a subway. I would imagine others are in a similar situation. The subway needs serious work, but if people could afford to live in the neighborhoods where they work again, perhaps it would not be as burdened as it is now.
6
Is running more trains during rush hours not an option? (I realize adding employees adds a lot of cost) Another solution is modern trains where the connecting points is a standing area. Like those extra long buses, you can stand in that area. The MTA is already on this one but the earliest we would see these new trains is 2020.
That is the exact problem. We have a signaling system that is sorely out-dated, and we are running the maximum number of trains we can at rush hour.
That's not the fault of the signal system. It's the operating rules and institution of slow zones, along with longer dwell times, that have reduced the number of trains per hour. There are countless stretches of track where signals have been modified to reduce operating speed. In addition, operators typically don't enter stations until the prior train has completely cleared the station, even though stations have enough signals to allow trains to enter sooner.
City politicians have allowed unfettered new building development to go on in various neighborhoods throughout NYC, with nary a thought for the other city planning that needs to be considered. You can't simply allow multiple, new luxury apartment buildings to spring up in small neighborhoods in Queens, Brooklyn etc., and turn a blind eye to transportation, local services, etc.
All these nice explanations aside for the delays, that doesn't change the fact that overall, the MTA is managed and run in a very unprofessional manner. Whenever there are problems within the MTA system, most times they are addressed in a lackadaisical, disorganized manner, with no one taking charge of the situation, no one keeping passengers informed with clear, accurate, meaningful information, etc. In Japan, subway employees consider their jobs to be a huge responsibility and a privilege to be able to serve you. With regards to the MTA and its employees, it's quite the opposite.
Most MTA employees are utterly clueless as to what is occurring within their own subway system, at any given point in time. How is this possible in the year 2017? How can a station booth attendant not realize that there have been no trains coming through their station for the past half hour? How can a bus driver let passengers off at a major subway station, and not realize that that very station was closed 20 minutes prior due to a 'police investigation'? P/A systems are outdated and often don't work.
All these nice explanations aside for the delays, that doesn't change the fact that overall, the MTA is managed and run in a very unprofessional manner. Whenever there are problems within the MTA system, most times they are addressed in a lackadaisical, disorganized manner, with no one taking charge of the situation, no one keeping passengers informed with clear, accurate, meaningful information, etc. In Japan, subway employees consider their jobs to be a huge responsibility and a privilege to be able to serve you. With regards to the MTA and its employees, it's quite the opposite.
Most MTA employees are utterly clueless as to what is occurring within their own subway system, at any given point in time. How is this possible in the year 2017? How can a station booth attendant not realize that there have been no trains coming through their station for the past half hour? How can a bus driver let passengers off at a major subway station, and not realize that that very station was closed 20 minutes prior due to a 'police investigation'? P/A systems are outdated and often don't work.
13
Personally I believe that whatever protocol is used by dispatchers to move or hold trains is probably outdated and perhaps not followed correctly to begin with. It all seems random to me.
The system should lose the arrogance of operating 24/7 and shut down for maintenance between 1 and 5 am. Think of all the work that could be done then.
Costs must be controlled. That means corralling the unions. Ugly perhaps, but necessary.
The system should lose the arrogance of operating 24/7 and shut down for maintenance between 1 and 5 am. Think of all the work that could be done then.
Costs must be controlled. That means corralling the unions. Ugly perhaps, but necessary.
15
no thank you. many working people rely on the trains in the wee hours to get to jobs very far away. there are other ways to maintain tracks, starting with an appropriate budget.
also, unions rule.
also, unions rule.
The system needs to serve the public, which means it needs to operate 24/7. There are thousands of riders during those hours. For decades, the system operated without these constant weekend and overnight diversions. Of course, let's control costs and the unions. Simple enough.
You know another major problem that leads to track crowding? PERPETUALLY BROKEN escalators and elevators. The escalators at the 53rd/Lex E/M station seem to break at least twice a year. This leads to very dangerous crowding on the platforms, as the broken escalator is shut down and people are funneled up the one working escalator and very narrow staircase. Instead of working around the clock (or even an 8-hour day) to fix this vital infrastructure, it sometimes takes up to THREE WEEKS to fix a single escalator. It's completely unacceptable and frankly an embarrassment.
37
meanwhile, the DC Metro has successfully gone 5 days without a fire.
4
The age of the equipment isn't nearly so important if it's properly maintained.
3
Seriously, I have no doubt that 15-20% of this problem would go away if people would not plant themselves in from of the doors either in the cars or on the platforms when people are exiting and THEN entering!. It seems to get worse and worse all the time! Stepping aside slightly does not cut it. Don't even think of standing there!
4
Bangkok has queues in its BTS even at peak hours.
Then again for this to happen, the trains are modern and stop at a precise location each time.
Then again for this to happen, the trains are modern and stop at a precise location each time.
how did they manage in the 40s?
1
Work etchic, manners, new equipment
2
And no monthly passes. You bought a token for every ride you took. You probably could buy discounted tokens, but my guess is that the inflation adjusted price per ride was higher then than it is now, if you factor in how many people use discounted MetroCards.
1
The trains would get very close to each other. As a train was dwelling in the station the following train would inch up to it. They don't do this anymore for safety reasons and to make operations idiot proof.
1
The dingy scene a cage-like warren of ancient, paint-flaking bars above the subway platform in the lead photo (at the Union Square station?) sums up the whole sorry, mess.
That scene looks like something out of an antiquated prison, like Rikers Island or Sing Sing, not a transport system in what claims to be the richest city in the world.
The whole mess clearly results from an utter and complete failure of public administration, planning, and upgrading the system, which the Times has chronicled for years now, especially in recent weeks.
A 112-year-old system with a WW2 era communications and control system, outdated, debilitated cars (often with doors and/or air-conditioning malfunctioning) and often-filthy, utterly overcrowded stations, and planning so obtuse that they're apparently taken by surprise by the large surge in ridership that the media (and even the MTA itself) has been reporting on for years?
All this would be risible if the results weren't so injurious to the life of the City and its citizens.
London builds new Underground lines, adds stations, and keeps trains and generally stations exceptionally clean, Beijing's system features new cars and engines utterly unlike any we'll see in NYC for 50 years, Istanbul announces plans to open 5 new Metro lines in the next 2 years... Meanwhile the NYC subway system announces service cut-backs, more disruptions of service, and plays political duck-and-cover.
Accountability, anyone? Who's in charge here?
That scene looks like something out of an antiquated prison, like Rikers Island or Sing Sing, not a transport system in what claims to be the richest city in the world.
The whole mess clearly results from an utter and complete failure of public administration, planning, and upgrading the system, which the Times has chronicled for years now, especially in recent weeks.
A 112-year-old system with a WW2 era communications and control system, outdated, debilitated cars (often with doors and/or air-conditioning malfunctioning) and often-filthy, utterly overcrowded stations, and planning so obtuse that they're apparently taken by surprise by the large surge in ridership that the media (and even the MTA itself) has been reporting on for years?
All this would be risible if the results weren't so injurious to the life of the City and its citizens.
London builds new Underground lines, adds stations, and keeps trains and generally stations exceptionally clean, Beijing's system features new cars and engines utterly unlike any we'll see in NYC for 50 years, Istanbul announces plans to open 5 new Metro lines in the next 2 years... Meanwhile the NYC subway system announces service cut-backs, more disruptions of service, and plays political duck-and-cover.
Accountability, anyone? Who's in charge here?
14
Another highly acute issue: Device Absorption. Too many passengers are in their own little smartphone world to the detriment of their spatial awareness. This is a chief reason why doorways are always clogged while space is available deeper within the trains. Nobody heeds the conductor's admonishment to "move all the way in," and dwell time increases.
The struggle is real!
The struggle is real!
31
The fact that the doorways are always clogged while space is available deeper within the trains has been there forever, long before the invention of cellphones. It is just ugly human nature of selfishness, so that they can get off the train easily plus they do not want to move for other ppl once they got a spot
2
Self driving, share ride electric taxis; vastly reduced private automobile traffic (a private car tax for commuters and city residents should be imposed to fund improvements to public transportation); greatly expanded and safer bike lanes and bike share programs; updated electric buses and expanded bus lanes. All of these could and should be used in coming years to reduce congestion on city streets and enable commuters to emerge from the subway depths to the surface.
1
I'm frustrated that this article says we're at 6 million riders.. the highest since the 1940s.. but doesn't explain why delays attributable to overcrowding are an issue now but wasn't back then. Or was it? How do you write an article like this and not address the obvious question?
3
Good question Mario - I had the same thought. I can only surmise back in the 1940s the trains, tracks and signals were newer, leading to fewer delays owing to infrastructure. Based upon the signs recently featured in the NYC Transit Museum at Grand Central, the same etiquette issues we bemoan today were prevalent back then.
There were actually more lines back then. The elevated lines, including one along Second Avenue, were torn down.
3
Trains went faster then. The Lex express from 86th to Grand Central would reach 50mph-no stop at 59 til the early 1960s. They would also get very close to their leader during dwell time. They don't do this now to make a collision absolutely impossible rather than highly unlikely.
1
It is not true that all solutions take decades. UK London subway (the Tube) has increased the capacity significantly by upgrading to fully automatic controls and faster trains. Faster trains mean more capacity, which means shorter dwell times, which increase punctuality. The key for for such upgrade is automation - London Tube trains are merely supervised by the drivers and automatically follow signals and take care of minimum safe inter-train distance. All this through the tunnels that have been built 120 years ago. At those speeds and train frequencies humans cannot operate the trains safely, so automation is critical.
So, no, it is not true that nothing can be done for decades. It can be done, perhaps in 5 years, max 10, starting with the routes that have the largest passenger numbers. Instead of dreaming about self-driving cars, which are still a pie in the sky, we should invest in automation of the existing public transport, which is possible NOW.
So, no, it is not true that nothing can be done for decades. It can be done, perhaps in 5 years, max 10, starting with the routes that have the largest passenger numbers. Instead of dreaming about self-driving cars, which are still a pie in the sky, we should invest in automation of the existing public transport, which is possible NOW.
2
The tube in London shuts down from midnight to 5am daily and runs a reduced schedule on Sundays. This allows for more regular and frequent maintenance.
1
We need upgraded signals with ATC yesterday. That would allow more frequent trains. Combine that with platform doors, allowing driverless trains to save on labor costs, and we'd be much better off. Paris and London have had it for a while. We only have it on the L.
We also need to get construction costs under control so we can build more. Building the 2nd Ave Subway cost more per mile than any other subway project in the world. NYC can't be the most difficult city to build in compared to ancient cities like Paris and Rome or other megacities like Tokyo. Where is all that money going??
We also need to get construction costs under control so we can build more. Building the 2nd Ave Subway cost more per mile than any other subway project in the world. NYC can't be the most difficult city to build in compared to ancient cities like Paris and Rome or other megacities like Tokyo. Where is all that money going??
5
I think the best thing to do is build a new subway system, below the current one... far enough down so it doesn't interfere with current structures, using the latest digging technology. That way, it could be exactly whatever the designers want it to be.
2
So basically The City declared war on people driving into The City demanding more people use PT, but then never fixed up PT to handle them
5
Over the years, I know that certain stops/routes were discontinued. The same can be said for the roads and commuter railroads. Overall, very little infrastructure has been upgraded or expanded over the last 50-60 years. Little has been done, while the US population has almost doubled since 1960. Infrastructure has never been "sexy" spending by the government. It's not like cutting a ribbon at a playground. Whenever there had to be budget cuts, infrastructure or maintenance budgets were always among the first to be cut
3
I think the only discontinued route that had any serious impact was the 3rd Avenue El in 1955, because the 2nd Avenue Subway, which was expected to replace it, took decades to be (partially) complete. The el's in Manhattan were designed to be taken down and replaced by the IND subway. If you look at the stations that have been closed, in virtually all cases the closings made for more efficient operating (e.g., 91st on the west side IRT, 18th Street on the Lexington Avenue subway, Myrtle Avenue on the BMT - many closings were tied into lengthening of platforms on adjacent stations. On the commuter railroads, station closings typically were based on very low ridership. A bigger issue is the discontinuation of commuter lines in NJ back in the 50's and 60's, which would be beneficial to have today. Also keep in mind that NY area commuter trains are at historical service frequency highs - virtually every line today has more rush hour and off-hour service than at any other time.
With all due respect to "The Market," it is worth noting that the subways were originally constructed and operated by private interests. While the city is certainly better off with a subway system than without it, I imagine at least some of the troubles we face today stem from the fact that these competitive private companies felt no particular burden to construct subway lines in a cooperative manner. Cars from one company often could not even fit in the tunnels/tracks of another. This is similar to the competitions that used to happen amongst phone companies, who jealously guarded the use of their wires against competitors. Even though the operation of the subways is no longer in the hands of any private company, the subway network's physical layout, dimensions, etc. illustrates where cooperation might have been preferable to competition.
The city's growth and increased ridership make it difficult to retroactively make changes to this system. The competitive legacy of the subways is literally written in stone. Deferred maintenance and political bickering are part of the government's contribution to the problem, but a more cooperative mindset might have avoided some of the inefficiencies plaguing the system today. Perhaps a more cooperative mindset (as opposed to always bowing to the wisdom of private entities) might be in order in other public matters as well. Private entities, competition and market forces are not the solution to every problem.
The city's growth and increased ridership make it difficult to retroactively make changes to this system. The competitive legacy of the subways is literally written in stone. Deferred maintenance and political bickering are part of the government's contribution to the problem, but a more cooperative mindset might have avoided some of the inefficiencies plaguing the system today. Perhaps a more cooperative mindset (as opposed to always bowing to the wisdom of private entities) might be in order in other public matters as well. Private entities, competition and market forces are not the solution to every problem.
4
Governor Cuomo champions infrastructure for cars while raiding the MTA funds to fill gaps in the state budget. He proudly owns good news about the MTA, while blaming Mayor de Blasio for transit failures. The silence of our Mayor on this issue is acquiescence to Albany.
New Yorkers are helpless to watch our transit system crumble as our elected representatives refuse to do anything.
NYTimes, please bring more news like this to light. In New York State, as well as federal government, the free press feels like the only voice citizens have.
New Yorkers are helpless to watch our transit system crumble as our elected representatives refuse to do anything.
NYTimes, please bring more news like this to light. In New York State, as well as federal government, the free press feels like the only voice citizens have.
4
The immediate solution is simple: Add more trains. There is no reason why one should have to wait more than 2 minutes for the next train, especially when the demand for transportation is clearly there.
The long term solution is to expand the subway routes so that one line is relieving some of the pressure of the second. Its a costly solution, of course. But i'm more than certain that New Yorkers would be willing to pay, say, 15 cents additional per ride for the next X years to be finance the constructions of additional lines.
The long term solution is to expand the subway routes so that one line is relieving some of the pressure of the second. Its a costly solution, of course. But i'm more than certain that New Yorkers would be willing to pay, say, 15 cents additional per ride for the next X years to be finance the constructions of additional lines.
1
The explanation doesn't make sense. Overcrowding may be the largest single problem but it's not the majority of the problem. The article attributes something like one-third of delays to overcrowding. Where are the other two-thirds?
Also, adding more trains to a line doesn't solve overcrowding because one train can slow down the entire line. The slowest train sets the pace for everyone. You either need to add more lines, allow trains to move faster between stops, or enable passengers to board more quickly. You'd think the third one necessitates some combination of the first two.
The argument sounds like the MTA blaming the customer for their problem.
Also, adding more trains to a line doesn't solve overcrowding because one train can slow down the entire line. The slowest train sets the pace for everyone. You either need to add more lines, allow trains to move faster between stops, or enable passengers to board more quickly. You'd think the third one necessitates some combination of the first two.
The argument sounds like the MTA blaming the customer for their problem.
6
Allow NYC to govern it's own transporation and infrastructure.
Impeach Cuomo
Stop sending 1/3rd of NYC taxes upstate
Completely overhaul the MTA structure and the strangle hold Unions have on it - let the Japanese run it.
Then MTA will be fixed in 1-3 years.
Impeach Cuomo
Stop sending 1/3rd of NYC taxes upstate
Completely overhaul the MTA structure and the strangle hold Unions have on it - let the Japanese run it.
Then MTA will be fixed in 1-3 years.
1
"What the system needs is more capacity... But these fixes would cost billions of dollars and could take decades to roll out."
Yeah well we've got a generational job to do. Three F-35 fighter jet prototypes cost us one trillion dollars, and what do we the taxpayers get for it?- a train system built around 1905! We need more capacity, we need speed, we need new and more trains. Designed and built by Americans- high speed bullet rail, monorail, light rail and mag lev. A New Deal providing jobs for Americans to overhaul the subways in New York, San Francisco and Chicago which are all limping along and overcrowded. A New Deal to fix the water pipes. High speed Monorail should be out of the theme parks and down the center strip of our highways.
Yeah well we've got a generational job to do. Three F-35 fighter jet prototypes cost us one trillion dollars, and what do we the taxpayers get for it?- a train system built around 1905! We need more capacity, we need speed, we need new and more trains. Designed and built by Americans- high speed bullet rail, monorail, light rail and mag lev. A New Deal providing jobs for Americans to overhaul the subways in New York, San Francisco and Chicago which are all limping along and overcrowded. A New Deal to fix the water pipes. High speed Monorail should be out of the theme parks and down the center strip of our highways.
3
Very little of the subway system dates back to 1904, basically the portion of the IRT from the Brooklyn Bridge loop through Grand Central, then via the shuttle and up the west side to 96th Street. The BMT subway was around 1920, the IND 1932 and 1940.
1
I've been riding since 1954. Ah, the good old days! The old steel cars on the Lexington line. The fan overhead, the wickers benches, the guy standing next to you who had a pint of muscatel for breakfast, somebody sneaking a smoke between cars or using it to urinate and best of all, during winter, the men in thick wool overcoats and women in furs.The huddled masses!
1
"What the system needs is more capacity: trains that run more frequently and new lines to carry the growing population. But these fixes would cost billions of dollars...."
Really? I'll give you a very plain solution.
Increase the ludicrously low tax rates for New York millionaires, phase out the absurd tax privileges granted to hedge funds and issuers of structured financial products and alike, and your "billions" will magically appear.
Really? I'll give you a very plain solution.
Increase the ludicrously low tax rates for New York millionaires, phase out the absurd tax privileges granted to hedge funds and issuers of structured financial products and alike, and your "billions" will magically appear.
4
Can we just start with good manners?
Dear Riders,
Please do not block the doorway. Please step all the way into the middle of the train. And, if you are blocking the entrance, please step out of the doorway to let people on and off. Following these simple rules sill not solve all the problems but it will help--on every single ride!
Dear Riders,
Please do not block the doorway. Please step all the way into the middle of the train. And, if you are blocking the entrance, please step out of the doorway to let people on and off. Following these simple rules sill not solve all the problems but it will help--on every single ride!
23
And, above all, please take off your backpacks. Courtesy is contagious.
37
And save the man-spread for the couch at home:)
This country's infrastructure decay will rise to the top of the other problems we are facing like healthcare, cyber terrorism and climate change. This will happen when another major bridge collapses or a subway train catches fire in a poorly ventilated tunnel, killing scores of Americans. Meanwhile, the woes of the NYC strap-hanger is looked upon by the federal government as nothing more serious than a discomfort.
2
Mexico's metro at rush hour is like hell. Invest in the subway before it gets much worse.
The motion of the train moving in the picture did nothing but create a painful distraction that I had to scroll to avoid. Motion sickness here we come. And what on earth could be the purpose for a video versus a photo in this case? I know trains move. Stop with the silly antics.
3
How about adding a button at the end of this article which will let us readers and riders communicate our chagrin to the people in charge and who can actually fix this mess? Gov Cuomo cannot be the only single person responsible. Is he?
2
If ridership has increased from 1.0bn a year to 1.8bn with almost no increase in cars or tracks, that's 800mn more rides a year, or $2.2bn more in revenue. That should help to solve some of the problems, no?
4
While reading this article got a call from my daughter in NYC sitting in the 2 or 3 train at station, doors open, not moving. Having already invested 20 minutes sitting, she asked, what to do? Last time this happened two weeks ago, she continued waiting and train was eventually taken out of service. Next train was too crowded to even enter. I went to twitter and google to try to get a sense of what to expect. Found out nothing other than reported delays. So she got out and walked. Arrived late, but she arrived.
1
As a retired NYC subway conductor, I've experienced many changes in ridership over 24 1/2 yrs.. One of the biggest mistakes ever made in the past was to eliminate the elevated lines in Manhattan without REAL visionary considerations of what the future mass transportation needs of NYC would be. Whereas there were 3 elevated lines in 1940 (2nd, 3rd, and 9th av), in 2017 there are none. The Q line extension (3 stops) acts like a funnel onto Lexington avenue, without relieving the transportation needs of the residents of those 3 stops that still need to continue traveling down Manhattan's East Side. They still have to jam into a Lexington Ave train, sooner or later. Even if the signal system was perfect, there's a MAXIMUM number of trains/per track/per hour possible; for ANY headway/duel time combination. You can do the math. As experience has shown, building underground subway tunnels is a costly, inconvenient, multiyear(if not decades) endeavor. Time to change strategies and do what is only logical and necessary: Build high capacity ELEVATED mass rail systems on the East Side and the West Side. They could even become tourist attractions for views of the river on one side and the city on the other. It may not be "pretty", but it would help to relieve the problem.
13
And these modern elevateds can be much less expensive to build than a subway, quieter, and a slimmer design than the old ones. Think of the narrow concrete single-pillar design of the Airtrain running down the Van Wyck median...
5
As long as we refuse to invest in infrastructure by modernizing it and building more where necessary, these problems will only get worse. The US population is about 310 million today and is forecast to reach about 400+ million by 2050. How are we going to feed, clothe, educate, shelter, entertain, transport .... even more millions of people when we can't begin to do so today?
4
You missed the real issue, which was covered in a previous article in the NY Times! It is the antiquated signal which are causing the overcrowding. If the signal system is update then more trains can run closer together which alleviates much of the overcrowding. Of course there still need to be additional train lines added, newer trains with more open designs (some trains in Europe/Asia have rush hour trains with no seats), better entrance and egress at stations (they may need to additional entrances/exits at the ends of platforms up to the street level). Until some or all of these are addressed overcrowding will continue to be a symptom and not direct cause of the system's inability to help move the city forward.
It still baffles me how the state (and to an extent, federal) government can allow a private corporation to solely control an operation as massive and critical as the MTA. In a mid-sized city like Omaha, Cleveland, sure -- there's not as much volume and the risk is significantly lower.
But the largest city in the US? No way. The state and MTA should share responsibility of the subway operations. MTA can contract the mechanics, drivers, workers, and such; the state makes sure infrastructure work is funded, upgraded, and completed.
But the largest city in the US? No way. The state and MTA should share responsibility of the subway operations. MTA can contract the mechanics, drivers, workers, and such; the state makes sure infrastructure work is funded, upgraded, and completed.
2
The city is permitting large apartment complexes to be built in places like western Queens with limited subway capacity. We are never going to be able to afford the billions upon billions of dollars needed to construct new subway lines. Maybe it's time to downzone most of the outer boroughs, limiting new apartment buildings to 8 stories maximum. It's kind of obvious that the city has reached it's practical maximum population. 8.5 million people is enough.
6
Eastern Queens is also getting apartment buildings (albeit smaller ones) in place of single family homes and duplexes. The transit options there are even more limited than western Queens. I’m not sure how people are expected to get around.
1
Why are there so many more riders, one has to ask? Hotels keep going up, one after the other. Tourism is double what it was twenty years ago. Meanwhile, most working New Yorkers have been priced out of Manhattan, forcing them to commute in every day.
We all know how much rich people love paying taxes, especially to support public transportation they don't use. But one day they're going to need a driver, a nurse, a delivery man, or a florist, and be annoyed that they're all so far away in Queens and the train is down again...
We all know how much rich people love paying taxes, especially to support public transportation they don't use. But one day they're going to need a driver, a nurse, a delivery man, or a florist, and be annoyed that they're all so far away in Queens and the train is down again...
5
I was certain that after 9/11 the city would see a net exodus. Plus, the internet was supposed to make location irrelevant. Think again!
Being in the building trades now, I can just imagine how mind boggling it must be to modify that train system in any substantial way. A century of electrical, water supply, sewage, communication, steam, signal lines, and maybe multiple versions of such, and which ones are live and which are defunct?, not to mention structural considerations: To change even a little stretch must be akin to brain surgery. And obviously this is a "live" patient --much different from starting new. Good luck with that NYC. No wonder people yearn for the simple life.
Being in the building trades now, I can just imagine how mind boggling it must be to modify that train system in any substantial way. A century of electrical, water supply, sewage, communication, steam, signal lines, and maybe multiple versions of such, and which ones are live and which are defunct?, not to mention structural considerations: To change even a little stretch must be akin to brain surgery. And obviously this is a "live" patient --much different from starting new. Good luck with that NYC. No wonder people yearn for the simple life.
2
The Subway system will have a catastrophic failure in my lifetime. That's all I can say with confidence.
2
Yeah, it's called the L line shutdown, due to start in 2019.
1
The Lexington ave. line entrance from Grand Central Station, which I use frequently, is a nightmare. The small area between the escalators going up to the main station and the turnstyles is sometimes in complete gridlock, exacerbated by long lines of tourists at the ticket machines (couldn't they just move the machines upstairs???). I can't imagine what it will be like when that 65 story office tower next door is occupied, and the LIRR is using GCS.
3
I wonder if the LIRR will have separate access to the subway, as its terminal will be stories below the existing GCT concourses.
One really dumbfounding thing that slows down dwell time is that idiotic New Yorkers try to get on the train before letting departing passengers off first.
The waiting passengers huddle around the doors leaving single-file wiggle room to let people off or they shove their way on as soon as the doors open and block the people trying to exit.
I've ever seen some people try this on an elevator and it blew my mind. Only in New York.
The waiting passengers huddle around the doors leaving single-file wiggle room to let people off or they shove their way on as soon as the doors open and block the people trying to exit.
I've ever seen some people try this on an elevator and it blew my mind. Only in New York.
10
My lines are the J/Z and sometimes E/F. This concept of people racing to get into the train before others get off has a lot to do with people vying for seats. On the J/Z, many people seem to be riding from almost one end to the next (about a 60-70 minute ride on a good day), and seat turnover is relatively low. As the train becomes more crowded and the seats more elusive, people get more aggressive about shoving on and not letting people off. Some people will always be pigs, but I think that if the rides were a little shorter or a little less crowded on each train, people might be a little less aggressive. I’ve seen too many fights break out on the J/Z because someone got pushed or someone didn’t step in fast enough, etc. There is a point at which no more sardines should go in the can.
2
This is a recent (15 years) phenomenon. Before then NYC could be quite polite in some ways. People were on the same page etiquette wise.
We need an education program for people to learn how to ride on crowded trains. Here's a starter:
1. HOLD BACKPACKS AND LARGE HANDBAGS in your hands, not slung over your shoulder - where they are out of YOUR way, but in everyone elses way.
2. DO NOT STAND IN THE DOORWAYS WHILE THE TRAIN IS IN THE STATION. Step off if necessary and let passengers out. Waiting passengers on the platform should step back to let you do so.
3. MOVE SWIFTLY ALL THE WAY INTO THE CENTER OF THE CAR AS FAR AS YOU CAN GO. If everyone follows rule number 2, exiting the train will not be a problem.
1. HOLD BACKPACKS AND LARGE HANDBAGS in your hands, not slung over your shoulder - where they are out of YOUR way, but in everyone elses way.
2. DO NOT STAND IN THE DOORWAYS WHILE THE TRAIN IS IN THE STATION. Step off if necessary and let passengers out. Waiting passengers on the platform should step back to let you do so.
3. MOVE SWIFTLY ALL THE WAY INTO THE CENTER OF THE CAR AS FAR AS YOU CAN GO. If everyone follows rule number 2, exiting the train will not be a problem.
5
This is not a rocket science problem: 10 pounds of fat will not fit into a five pound bag.
Rather, the MTA is an issue similar to airlines: Crowding too many people into too little space. At least thus far, the MTA has not dragged off the "extra" minorities and beaten them.
So, either limit the number of riders or provide more space for them.
Rather, the MTA is an issue similar to airlines: Crowding too many people into too little space. At least thus far, the MTA has not dragged off the "extra" minorities and beaten them.
So, either limit the number of riders or provide more space for them.
2
This is a fascinating transportation and technology problem. It is rather simple to fix from an engineering perspective. Like other infrastructure, however, it languishes behind other priorities in the US; especially, defense spending. In that regard, however, an argument could be made that replacing the entire subway system--cars, power sources, track (silent magneto-levitation?), stations and boarding design--is an effective security investment, especially in civil defense and related uses. As usual, a good role model is helpful. London, Hong Kong, Singapore, Stockholm, Paris and Tokyo are good places to start. Culturally, however, the US just isn't very good at, or terribly motivated to provide, leadership is mass transportation. We don't do trains, subways, buses and airlines very well at all. We do luxury cars, limos, private jets and RVs, though, better than anyone. The unfortunate reality is that in ten years, the NYC subway will look just like it does today, if not worse The mass public will suffer; the 2% however, will be above ground in Escalades, Range Rovers, Lincoln limos, jet helicopters, and flying privately out of Teterboro and White Plains. This includes of course, senior government leadership, in taxpayer-provided up-armored SUVs with security detail, private jets and special-use road lanes; perhaps the most elitist and out of touch of all. And the most uninterested in your problems.
8
The long and the short of it is simply this: cities require infrastructure to function. Infrastructure is expensive; it's expensive to build and expensive to maintain, and expensive to rejuvenate. Yesterday's infrastructure barely serves today's economy, so continual renewal and rejuvenation is required. The main consideration is always money. Americans have been being conned by demagogic leaders for far too long that they're being overtaxed. But public infrastructure is always based on tax dollars. Continual tax cuts mean fewer dollars for infrastructure maintenance and renewal.
Subways are no different. They're railways, and railways are incredibly maintenance intensive. Fares alone won't cover the necessary cash flow to maintain a 21st century subway system, it also takes a generous investment of tax dollars. Someone has to pay. Until there's political will to levy the necessary taxes and make the necessary investments in system upgrades and improvements, this crown jewel of New York City will continue to deteriorate. Yesterday's subway system will NOT serve tomorrow's needs.
But there is one nice feature about NYC -- you can always walk where you want to go.
Subways are no different. They're railways, and railways are incredibly maintenance intensive. Fares alone won't cover the necessary cash flow to maintain a 21st century subway system, it also takes a generous investment of tax dollars. Someone has to pay. Until there's political will to levy the necessary taxes and make the necessary investments in system upgrades and improvements, this crown jewel of New York City will continue to deteriorate. Yesterday's subway system will NOT serve tomorrow's needs.
But there is one nice feature about NYC -- you can always walk where you want to go.
9
If you could find a private consortium to put up 80% of the cost ... in anticipation of a nice ROI ...
A lot of comments say we should leave this darn city and move to the suburbs. Sure, we could do that, but we would be putting ourselves and our families at risk by driving our cars every single day, to go to work, to go to school, to buy a carton of milk. We would also be hurting the planet, of course. Bigly.
We should all keep in mind that nothing is more dangerous as a daily activity than driving. Nothing even compares. 100 people die each day in the US in car accidents. If 100 people died each day in our subway systems we would have stopped riding the subway decades ago. Oh, it's in a car, you say? That's ok, drive on.
I wasn't a big fan of Bloomberg, but he did put out a comprehensive document about the health of the city. Turns out, chillingly, that child mortality in NYC is 30% lower than in the rest of the country. Why? Because kids don't hop in a car as part of their daily routine. Think about it. Just by living in this wonderful city, with its overcrowded trains, your kid has a 30% bigger chance of making it to adulthood. Isn't it worth the crowding trains? This is not to say the situation is terrible and we should vote Cuomo out if he doesn't start addressing the problem yesterday. But to move out because of it? Only if you think putting your kids at risk is worth the "convenience" of driving.
We should all keep in mind that nothing is more dangerous as a daily activity than driving. Nothing even compares. 100 people die each day in the US in car accidents. If 100 people died each day in our subway systems we would have stopped riding the subway decades ago. Oh, it's in a car, you say? That's ok, drive on.
I wasn't a big fan of Bloomberg, but he did put out a comprehensive document about the health of the city. Turns out, chillingly, that child mortality in NYC is 30% lower than in the rest of the country. Why? Because kids don't hop in a car as part of their daily routine. Think about it. Just by living in this wonderful city, with its overcrowded trains, your kid has a 30% bigger chance of making it to adulthood. Isn't it worth the crowding trains? This is not to say the situation is terrible and we should vote Cuomo out if he doesn't start addressing the problem yesterday. But to move out because of it? Only if you think putting your kids at risk is worth the "convenience" of driving.
12
How cool is it that these problems should manifest themselves exactly when the dysfunctional mayor and governor find themselves running for re-election?
3
Move to North Carolina where you can join us on clogged roadways but first you have to get through LaGuardia.
2
The obvious answers are express trains and to lay on more surface buses and entice those travelling short distances to take them instead.
1
I said this earlier in another article on the MTA. We are a country awash in money and it's going to all the wrong places; our priorities are askew.
Straphangers, citizens, stop indulging fatcats and suffer third rate service as you trudge to work to earn a salary, FROM WHICH TAXES ARE TAKEN OUT, and demand your rights. It's time you became greedy too.
Straphangers, citizens, stop indulging fatcats and suffer third rate service as you trudge to work to earn a salary, FROM WHICH TAXES ARE TAKEN OUT, and demand your rights. It's time you became greedy too.
5
MTA management should try to perform as well as their predecessors did in 1940, which would enable them to accommodate the fewer riders they serve today.
1
What is consistently omitted from so many of the recent NYT's articles regarding the MTA and NYC's transit woes are the explicit safety concerns for passengers on these overcrowded platforms. I grew up in the NYC area, have lived and worked within NYC limits and I've never felt more unsafe and uncomfortable riding the subways as I do now.
Each morning, I maneuver hundreds of individuals walking from GCT to the Times Square Shuttle and it's terrifying (only slightly less so than when I was pregnant). Half of an entire stairwell has been closed for nearly a year and a half. Track 4 has now been shut down for construction. That construction? Not on the track, but for real estate development in the vicinity- it's appalling to subject thousands of riders a day to dangerous conditions for the sake of some others' corporate gain. But, I'm not surprised.
Where are the exits? What's the quickest route to get to fresh air? What would happen if there was an incident on the crowded platforms or stairwells that would send people in a panic? Some platforms only have one exit and it's on a tail end. What happens if something happens between the exit and where I'm standing? I'm curious to know if there are any regulations imposed on the MTA to provide clear emergency exit instructions for riders, as well as impose capacity limits on platforms (a la capacity limits in restaurants or theaters).
Each morning, I maneuver hundreds of individuals walking from GCT to the Times Square Shuttle and it's terrifying (only slightly less so than when I was pregnant). Half of an entire stairwell has been closed for nearly a year and a half. Track 4 has now been shut down for construction. That construction? Not on the track, but for real estate development in the vicinity- it's appalling to subject thousands of riders a day to dangerous conditions for the sake of some others' corporate gain. But, I'm not surprised.
Where are the exits? What's the quickest route to get to fresh air? What would happen if there was an incident on the crowded platforms or stairwells that would send people in a panic? Some platforms only have one exit and it's on a tail end. What happens if something happens between the exit and where I'm standing? I'm curious to know if there are any regulations imposed on the MTA to provide clear emergency exit instructions for riders, as well as impose capacity limits on platforms (a la capacity limits in restaurants or theaters).
29
I agree. Many of these platforms can be very narrow and as I walk down and see some of them with waiting passengers standing 6 thick, and all the way up to the very edge of the platform, all I can think is 'there's no way in hell I'd be standing in a crowd like that, and so close to the train pit!'
2
In an age when public transportation ridership should be encouraged, and is encouraged, you would think that the "powers that be" would have been investing more in the infrastructure and technology, and number of trains to carry the load. I would love to see the dollars spent on capital improvements related to increased ridership numbers. I doubt they are equitable. Always a catch 22. Spend the revenue dollars on infrastructure - or on the labor operating costs of the system. In the long run, without a more balanced approach to dollars spent - you get a system that cannot handle the load - and everyone loses.
1
This article about overcrowding on the subways, which are a core element of the infrastructure of the City of New York, illustrates the problems posed by underinvestment. The MTA has known for years that it needed to upgrade the signals system to accommodate more trains, but the money has only been available for piecemeal improvements, and the signals upgrades must compete with track improvements for scare maintenance dollars. Similarly, the MTA has the data on ridership; it knows that overcrowding contributes to system delays. But until it can fix the signals issue, it has limited ability to add trains. Despite the deteriorating service, the increased subway ridership is unlikely to decline sharply in the next few years, which makes solving the subways' ills a pressing need, which will require tens of millions of additional dollars to be raised by the MTA, which likely means still more fare and toll increases. That may be politically unpopular, but the alternatives are worse. New York is far too dependent on the subways to allow the system to continue to degrade.
2
I visited the city last year. (I grew up there long ago) I rented one of the citibike bicycles to get around and it was scary fun but way more efficient and less expensive than the subway. Granted it's not for everyone and all seasons but it served me well.
1
If ridership is the highest it has been since the 40's, why is there no discussion of how that level of ridership was handled then?
2
In the 1940s, there were actually more train lines since there were still Elevated train lines in Manhattan and on Myrtle Ave in Brooklyn. Over times, the redundant train lines were taken down in favor of bus transportation and to reduce cost. It didn't help that Robert Moses decided to invest into highways instead of public transportation.
24
You and John R below have raised an excellent point. First, I would point out that in the 1940's the US had made a transition from the Great Depression to a wartime economy. I suspect that the people of that time were more willing to accept conditions that New Yorkers of 2017 would not tolerate.
On a more positive note, I have spent considerable time on public transport in other countries and I suspect strongly that you both are right about the possible application of technological advances, if we chose to invest in them. I spent several months in total a few years back in Vienna, Austria. I travelled extensively throughout the metropolitan area, which contains about the same number of people as Boston. The subway system is very fast, highly reliable, and very tightly integrated with secondary transportation. It is clearly computer controlled; a train starts to decelerate about 20 seconds before a station. The deceleration is strong but does not vary until the train is almost stopped. After a smooth stop the doors open very rapidly. After a warning, the doors close equally rapidly (like on the Starship Enterprise but without the swoosh sound) and the train starts accelerating smoothly but strongly. All of this computer-controlled acceleration and deceleration allows rapid and efficient movement, without jerking motions that throw passengers to the floor. There are many other efficiencies, like the honors system (enforced by random checks and big fines).
On a more positive note, I have spent considerable time on public transport in other countries and I suspect strongly that you both are right about the possible application of technological advances, if we chose to invest in them. I spent several months in total a few years back in Vienna, Austria. I travelled extensively throughout the metropolitan area, which contains about the same number of people as Boston. The subway system is very fast, highly reliable, and very tightly integrated with secondary transportation. It is clearly computer controlled; a train starts to decelerate about 20 seconds before a station. The deceleration is strong but does not vary until the train is almost stopped. After a smooth stop the doors open very rapidly. After a warning, the doors close equally rapidly (like on the Starship Enterprise but without the swoosh sound) and the train starts accelerating smoothly but strongly. All of this computer-controlled acceleration and deceleration allows rapid and efficient movement, without jerking motions that throw passengers to the floor. There are many other efficiencies, like the honors system (enforced by random checks and big fines).
1
The most interesting fact to me was that ridership was in fact higher in the 1940s than it is now, when presumably the system is larger and we have better technology to manage trains. It would be interesting to see a comparison of how this issue was managed then, and why with 60+ years of technological progress and experience since, we seem to be managing it so poorly today.
4
It is impossible to upgrade our subways and the rest of our crumbling, century-old infrastructure without low-interest, long-term financing by a national credit institution such as FDR's Reconstruction Finance Corporation or Hamilton's Bank of the United States. This is how the Chinese have done it. Private financing, or private-public partnerships cannot possibly work to finance national infrastructure projects. This is what Wall Street and private financiers don't want the people to know.
4
John Raskin, executive director of the Riders Alliance, has made an extremely dangerous proposal.
The subway system is clearly not designed in a way that allows more trains to be run. So it's not just one PART of it, like the archaic signal equipment; but rather, every single part of the entire system is designed such that there is a maximum amount of traffic it can handle.
So when people talk about upgrading some part of the system to allow for more traffic, they are missing the big picture. A fix for something that does not work, still does not work. Using the subway for something it is not mean to sustain is what causes all of the recent problems, including the jumped track incident this past Tuesday.
The authentic solution is to stop using the subway system in a way it is not designed to be used.
The current number of people going through exceeds the design maximum; so a cap must be put in place on the number of riders.
I realize there would be an impact because a lot of people would have to rethink their daily commute. Or at least, a lot of people who actually already need to rethink their daily commute would be forced to do so.
For the government to continue facilitating our use the subway system in a way it is not designed to be used is extremely dangerous to the public welfare and well-being and will never work.
The subway system is clearly not designed in a way that allows more trains to be run. So it's not just one PART of it, like the archaic signal equipment; but rather, every single part of the entire system is designed such that there is a maximum amount of traffic it can handle.
So when people talk about upgrading some part of the system to allow for more traffic, they are missing the big picture. A fix for something that does not work, still does not work. Using the subway for something it is not mean to sustain is what causes all of the recent problems, including the jumped track incident this past Tuesday.
The authentic solution is to stop using the subway system in a way it is not designed to be used.
The current number of people going through exceeds the design maximum; so a cap must be put in place on the number of riders.
I realize there would be an impact because a lot of people would have to rethink their daily commute. Or at least, a lot of people who actually already need to rethink their daily commute would be forced to do so.
For the government to continue facilitating our use the subway system in a way it is not designed to be used is extremely dangerous to the public welfare and well-being and will never work.
3
"Subway ridership has risen dramatically since the 1990s."
Another thing that's happened since the 1990s is 20 years. An extra 2 million riders didn't all arrive last month. Our only hope is to find a way Billionaire shell companies can avoid taxes by investing in the MTA. Those 'low density' skyscrapers go up in 6 months and we're riding in subway cars built in the 1950s.
Another thing that's happened since the 1990s is 20 years. An extra 2 million riders didn't all arrive last month. Our only hope is to find a way Billionaire shell companies can avoid taxes by investing in the MTA. Those 'low density' skyscrapers go up in 6 months and we're riding in subway cars built in the 1950s.
3
Actually the oldest subways cars currently in use, the R-32 cars, were built around 1964. Second oldest are the R40/42 cars, built around 1968.
http://www.nycsubway.org/wiki/Current_Fleet
http://www.nycsubway.org/wiki/Current_Fleet
It should come as no surprise to anyone living in NYC that I'm writing this comment on the F train while being held in the station at 2nd Ave.
I'm curious about the on time graphic. Why is the L train on time 91% of the time? What's the differentiating factor between that line and the others?
I'm curious about the on time graphic. Why is the L train on time 91% of the time? What's the differentiating factor between that line and the others?
13
Two track railroad (less complexity of operations).
Newer equipment.
Selecting the right excuses for a "late train". There are some reasons for a delay that are not held against On Time Performance (OTP) which is depicted in the graphic. Rapid Transpiration Operations (RTO) managers expertly putting the blame on other departments.
Newer equipment.
Selecting the right excuses for a "late train". There are some reasons for a delay that are not held against On Time Performance (OTP) which is depicted in the graphic. Rapid Transpiration Operations (RTO) managers expertly putting the blame on other departments.
4
Wow. Who knew that some operations folks in the MTA were gaming the system?
3
The L-train is already updated with the newest signal system (CBTC). The MTA hopes to update all lines the same way.
Tax the rich.
3
Overcrowding? Tell us something we don't already know. I've been riding the subway since 1972 and never before have I seen so many riders trying to crowd onto the trains. Thankfully, I can still get a seat (sometimes) and riders are respectful and polite (most times). But if the MTA could hire more personnel to direct riders on and off the trains, update the signal system (can we get donations from folks like Bloomberg and other billionaires instead of raising the fare) and CLEAN the tracks and stations so human riders don't have to contend with the four-legged ones (rats - ugh!!!), then the system would be much, much better. See? An easy fix to the crowded trains. Pay me what the state is paying MTA President Lhota. for coming up with these brilliant ideas!!
6
Blaming the riders for using the system to give cover to a mismanaged governmental agency?
This is fake news.
This is fake news.
4
I had no idea that the numbers had increased by that much! Stunning. I was recently taking the metro in Paris and took two of the lines that have the endless cars (the trains are articulated so that you don't lose the space at the ends of each car--kind of like the articulated buses--and the effect is of one giant bendable car from end to end of the train). When the train is going straight in the tunnel you can look forward and back through the entire train, it's just one giant car with periodic rubbery accordian-looking sides. I tried to imagine them in Chicago because you can fit more people on, and more quickly. t was a very creative way to get probably 10% or 15% more people onto the same space. What I didn't like is that sometimes I get on a different car than someone who is exceptionally loud, angry or smelly. Obviously on this train you are all on one giant car so that doesn't work.
1
Why is the NYC subway a set function rather than city function? And why doesn't Andrew Cuomo visit London and Paris to learn how to run a subway system efficiently, cleanly, and on time?
Paris is not a 24 hour system (would not work in NYC or even in Chicago) so it's not really the same. I do like the metro. I haven't been to London in nearly a decade, but I think they are not 24 hour though maybe moving toward that. When you run a system all night it's harder to do upkeep, etc. It adds a wrinkle.
Frustrated NY subway riders: Move to Cleveland. Our rail system was designed for a population twice its current size. We'd love to have you.
3
I've ridden on the Rapid. Slow system. Trains plod along at a slow pace. Its one redeeming quality? You can catch the Rapid at the airport and get into town easily.
1
Yet other countries who are faced with similar issues upgrade infrastructure deal with it.
Furthermore, this problem is spilling into traffic. What used to be a 10 minute ride on the Grand Central Parkway is turning into 45 minutes. Even parking going to your neighborhood stores is difficult between construction taking up spots, road and street work, and more people moving into the outer boroughs.
There is no continuity between those that rip up streets to work on water pipes, wires and cable, and then the city re-rips that same street to fill in potholes left behind or repave a street that is then destroyed by the others.
Traffic/meter workers do not have to report broken meters......Sanitation workers do not have to report potholes they run into weekly. The people who break up the streets don't coordinate with other agencies or utilities. This makes no sense whatsoever!!!!
Furthermore, this problem is spilling into traffic. What used to be a 10 minute ride on the Grand Central Parkway is turning into 45 minutes. Even parking going to your neighborhood stores is difficult between construction taking up spots, road and street work, and more people moving into the outer boroughs.
There is no continuity between those that rip up streets to work on water pipes, wires and cable, and then the city re-rips that same street to fill in potholes left behind or repave a street that is then destroyed by the others.
Traffic/meter workers do not have to report broken meters......Sanitation workers do not have to report potholes they run into weekly. The people who break up the streets don't coordinate with other agencies or utilities. This makes no sense whatsoever!!!!
2
Maybe if it were a ticketable offense to stand in the doorway instead of stepping in to the center of the car, it would be easier to get on and off the train. This standing-in-the-doorway behavior has not changed for many years. This behavior slows down the trains and contributes to the delays of the whole system. It is readily observable in almost every subway car, crowded or uncrowded. People stand in the doorway and think if you can get around them, then they are not in the way. WRONG. If I have to go around you, then you are in the way and delaying everyone by making it harder for everyone to get on and off the train. The doorway area should be clearly and emphatically marked "Do not stand in this area when passengers are exiting and entering." Then people can point to the sign and tell people they are breaking the rules and slowing down the trains.
47
I agree completely! Although riders cannot be blamed fully, they can certainly help the problem. Often times there is a lot of room in the center of the car.
1
Worse still, with everyone's face buried in a smart phone and ears plugged with cranked music, even a smile or a polite "excuse me" doesn't get anyone to move out of the way. If everyone moved into the cars, took off their bags (purses included), and stepped out to let people off, a lot of overcrowding issues would be less dire.
1
We stand in the doorway so we can Lean On The Doors.
Otherwise, we have to hang on a rod or pole, and it is harder to read a book/phone with only one hand.
Otherwise, we have to hang on a rod or pole, and it is harder to read a book/phone with only one hand.
Aren't we glad we paid billions for a single PATH station designed by a prima donna architect? Their excuses about costs ring hollow when so much public money is simply wasted. This crisis stems from a failure of leadership, full stop.
6
PATH (and the Oculus) would be under the purview of the Port Authority, not the MTA.
Overcrowding causing bad service is victim-blaming, isn't it?
Riders are victims of the system.
Consider just one failed initiative that riders' fares and tax dollars have paid (through the nose) for: Communications Based train Control (CBTC). CBTC was a major imitative the NYCTA undertook over twenty years ago. CBTC will allow for additional Trains Per Hour (TPH) which will increase capacity within existing infrastructure; running trains will be more efficient. The ENTIRE SYSTEM was to be fitted with the CBTC technology by the end of this year, 2017. Now it is projected to be 2045 (how can you be off on a project completion by 30 years and keep your job?).
What have we gotten so far? Hundreds of millions in sunk costs, cost overruns, missed deadlines, shoddy work, now-obsolete technology, etc.
The culprits?
Mismanagement: cronyism, sycophantism, nepotism, and corruption.
There is always the political connection between big-money contractors and politicians. Political appointees then award and administer contracts to companies that contribute to campaigns. Where does transit management go when they leave with six figure pensions? Consulting to the big money contractors, it is a revolving door.
Do not blame the rider for using a shoddy public utility.
The NYT might want to do a series on fraud. waste and abuse in the management of the NYCTA.
Riders are victims of the system.
Consider just one failed initiative that riders' fares and tax dollars have paid (through the nose) for: Communications Based train Control (CBTC). CBTC was a major imitative the NYCTA undertook over twenty years ago. CBTC will allow for additional Trains Per Hour (TPH) which will increase capacity within existing infrastructure; running trains will be more efficient. The ENTIRE SYSTEM was to be fitted with the CBTC technology by the end of this year, 2017. Now it is projected to be 2045 (how can you be off on a project completion by 30 years and keep your job?).
What have we gotten so far? Hundreds of millions in sunk costs, cost overruns, missed deadlines, shoddy work, now-obsolete technology, etc.
The culprits?
Mismanagement: cronyism, sycophantism, nepotism, and corruption.
There is always the political connection between big-money contractors and politicians. Political appointees then award and administer contracts to companies that contribute to campaigns. Where does transit management go when they leave with six figure pensions? Consulting to the big money contractors, it is a revolving door.
Do not blame the rider for using a shoddy public utility.
The NYT might want to do a series on fraud. waste and abuse in the management of the NYCTA.
6
A possible solution to subway delays could be to establish a more orderly passenger entry/exit system to replace the ad hoc pushing and shoving that takes place at every stop on the crowded lines at crowded times. The MTA should encourage people to modify their behavior to promote and facilitate exit from and entry to the subway cars.
The NYC subway system is a national treasure and a model I wish other cities would follow. I much prefer the subway to driving (I recently moved to a Boston suburb after 30 years in NYC). Compare moving millions of people using electricity (!) night and day to each individual driving their own SUV to work every day, sitting in traffic with the engine idling and spewing toxins into the air we breathe (of course, there is also plenty of that in NYC-see the BQE or any other major NYC thoroughfare). Mass transit and alternative transportation (bikes) is what we need a whole lot more of to improve efficiency and fight global warming.
The NYC subway system is a national treasure and a model I wish other cities would follow. I much prefer the subway to driving (I recently moved to a Boston suburb after 30 years in NYC). Compare moving millions of people using electricity (!) night and day to each individual driving their own SUV to work every day, sitting in traffic with the engine idling and spewing toxins into the air we breathe (of course, there is also plenty of that in NYC-see the BQE or any other major NYC thoroughfare). Mass transit and alternative transportation (bikes) is what we need a whole lot more of to improve efficiency and fight global warming.
1
DeBlasio has increased the City's *annual* operating budget by more than $10BB over the years of his mayoralty. The 4 year MTA capital budget is roughly $32 BB. Given the importance of the subways to the economic well-being of the City and the pro-egalitarian distribution of the benefits of good subway service, DeBlasio's failure to focus on the subways with attention and resources marks a failure of leadership. Fingerpointing with the Governor is not leadership.
2
The MTA isn't DeBlasio's responsibility. The Governor oversees the State's transportation system, including our subway. Blame Cuomo, not DeBlasio.
4
Excellent article, folks! I was just on the C up from Penn Station for the NYT event last night. I wedged in with everyone else. Once in, the train zipped us up to 96th street, so you are right, the crowding is the problem.
I seem to remember trains running more frequently, and, according to your plot, that was with fewer riders back then. It was a golden age. When I was in high school going to the old NYU engineering campus off of Burnside Ave., one kid who lived in Flushing remarked that he had three ways to get home using the subway. I think the cost of subway rides then was 15 cents.
Today the cost has gone up over 15X and we get *less* service, although one could argue that there is more service because of the volume (passenger miles).
If ridership has increased this much, then the economy is fairly successful. So cost becomes a battle between business and government that supplies the infrastructure for business. It's very much like health care. Were health care only available at cost, then few could come up with the $15K or so a year for healthcare. For the subway, if we had a better system, we'd have to pay for it.
On top of this, people in this nation really lack a true civic spirit, although we *do* support our environment and people to some degree.
That C train that I took was waiting just as soon as I got off the New Jersey Transit train. That was good. No, that was bad. It was waiting because of all of the crowding, so it was actually delayed.
I seem to remember trains running more frequently, and, according to your plot, that was with fewer riders back then. It was a golden age. When I was in high school going to the old NYU engineering campus off of Burnside Ave., one kid who lived in Flushing remarked that he had three ways to get home using the subway. I think the cost of subway rides then was 15 cents.
Today the cost has gone up over 15X and we get *less* service, although one could argue that there is more service because of the volume (passenger miles).
If ridership has increased this much, then the economy is fairly successful. So cost becomes a battle between business and government that supplies the infrastructure for business. It's very much like health care. Were health care only available at cost, then few could come up with the $15K or so a year for healthcare. For the subway, if we had a better system, we'd have to pay for it.
On top of this, people in this nation really lack a true civic spirit, although we *do* support our environment and people to some degree.
That C train that I took was waiting just as soon as I got off the New Jersey Transit train. That was good. No, that was bad. It was waiting because of all of the crowding, so it was actually delayed.
Overcrowding: the use of that word is very unfortunate. It throughs the blame to the passengers.
The real root of the problem is failure to upgrade the subway system to the needs of a city of that size. The signaling system needs to be upgraded, to allow for more trains to run at a given time. They did that in in London and Tokyo with the use of CBTC signaling system. In New York only line 7 uses that system. In London they upgraded the signaling system easily with work being conducted during the night (since the trains didn't use to run 24/7). I wonder if they could do something like that here. Will and resources are needed to upgrade the subway system.
The real root of the problem is failure to upgrade the subway system to the needs of a city of that size. The signaling system needs to be upgraded, to allow for more trains to run at a given time. They did that in in London and Tokyo with the use of CBTC signaling system. In New York only line 7 uses that system. In London they upgraded the signaling system easily with work being conducted during the night (since the trains didn't use to run 24/7). I wonder if they could do something like that here. Will and resources are needed to upgrade the subway system.
8
Exactly. "Overcrowding" is victim-blaming, passing the buck. CBTC, along with open gangway cars would allow more cars with shorter headways. This would absorb the larger volume. The MTA is obsessed with overly cautious "limited testing" of worldwide proven systems (CBTC, open gangway, platform screens, contactless fare, etc), and thus, nothing every gets done.
2
The NY City subway is a microcosm of the entire national infrastructure. I ride the subway almost every day, and also drive the NJ Turnpike and other roads in the Garden State. Just as the subway is crumbling, roads are potholed and patched so as to provide at times an almost “off-road” like condition. This damages vehicles and is unsafe. Often while sitting in non-moving traffic on a bridge or roadway, I get a close up look at the rusting, crusting, cracking and peeling condition of these structures. And don’t even get me started about the traffic backups. This and the condition of the subway is all part of the same story. It is unforgivable that our country’s “leaders” have allowed things in “the greatest country in the world” to devolve to this degree. The US is many decades behind ever bringing these systems and structures up to snuff and the way things are going it is pretty certain we will never catch up to the nations that are so far ahead of us already.
36
I am seriously afraid of driving over several bridges in my vicinity. They are structurally being held together layers of paint over crumbling, rusted steel.
I always say a little prayer each and every time I cross over one.
I always say a little prayer each and every time I cross over one.
This needs to be hung around Cuomo's neck like an albatross. Remind him constantly that if he's even sniffing anywhere near 2020, he had better fix the MTA, which is flush and should be an exemplar of efficiency, or be prepared to get pilloried in the public square for his ineptitude while trying to style himself as presidential.
12
and debalsio who throws his hands up in the air on a regular basis
1
I don't understand why "more trains" need take so long. We're not adding new tunnels, we just need to buy more trains. That can probably be done within two years not ten years. If there are more trains, riders can believe it when they hear "There's another train right behind this one" and won't feel as compelled to squeeze on the train currently in the station, which extends dwell times.
5
You can't just purchase more trains and run them every 30 seconds with the current signaling system. The current fixed-block system, which is essentially the traffic lights, is typically broken up into 1,000 foot segments.
This MTA video explains the situation:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1Bgmugve5M
This MTA video explains the situation:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1Bgmugve5M
3
No, you can't run them every 30 seconds. But you can certainly run them more frequently than they run now. I waited nearly 30 minutes for a Brooklyn-bound A at the West Fourth Street station yesterday afternoon just after 4 PM. I squeezed on. The surprising thing to me is how patient riders were with each other as we were packed in like so many sardines. Train frequency can be improved even with the fixed block system.
1
"What the system needs is more capacity ... But [this] would cost billions of dollars". The US defence budget is $600 billion. It was just increased by $50 billion. There is money for weapons. But none for public transit ?
7
Let's try to put things in perspective: the budget of New York City is 85.6 billion dollars - and it increased by 3 billion from the prior year. The budget of New York State is another 163 billion.
If you slice up the 60 billion military spending increase by population, New York would get some 4 billion - an amount the budgets grew from the last year in the first place. Problem is, it still will probably get nowhere.
If you slice up the 60 billion military spending increase by population, New York would get some 4 billion - an amount the budgets grew from the last year in the first place. Problem is, it still will probably get nowhere.
2
It is clearly a case of the Blues, liberal politics. The subways in 4 of America's 11 largest cities, all in Texas, run on time and are not crowed: Houston, Dallas, San Antonio, and Austin.
1
First, each of those cities have Democratic (or liberal/progressive in the case of San Antonio) mayors. Second, I don't believe Houston nor San Antonio have subways per se. Perhaps light rail. Third, the ridership is miniscule by comparison for Dallas and Houston's Metrorail and DART. We're talking perhaps 30k-200k people per day versus 6 million in NYC. The issues aren't necessarily liberal v. conservative nor even partisan. That is not to say they are apolitical, just not in the oversimplistic sense you suggest.
21
Ha there's no comparison but thank you for trying.
Austin: As of 2014, MetroRail has an average weekday ridership of approximately 2,900 passengers per day. Total population of Austin is under 1 million.
Subway system looks like it was created in 1985.
Houston: 2015 METRORail has an average weekday ridership of 60,600
started mid 1980s
NYC: WEEKDAY RIDERSHIP 5.7 Million Yearly 1.757 BILLION. Started in 1904.
Epic Facepalm. Texas ridership stats are ranked in the lower 50's out of every system in the US. The closest comparision would probably be San Fran/ Oakland which isn't even a 24 hour system
Austin: As of 2014, MetroRail has an average weekday ridership of approximately 2,900 passengers per day. Total population of Austin is under 1 million.
Subway system looks like it was created in 1985.
Houston: 2015 METRORail has an average weekday ridership of 60,600
started mid 1980s
NYC: WEEKDAY RIDERSHIP 5.7 Million Yearly 1.757 BILLION. Started in 1904.
Epic Facepalm. Texas ridership stats are ranked in the lower 50's out of every system in the US. The closest comparision would probably be San Fran/ Oakland which isn't even a 24 hour system
30
You are comparing the size of TX subways to NYCs? That's not apples and oranges. That's blueberries and watermelons. The physical size, ridership, age, and reach are completely different.
13
No, there's actually a very easy solution to this :
Considering the crushing density of Manhattan, it should cost no less than $50 to take a 4,000lb metal box into the most crowded, most expensive real estate in the country.
If we managed traffic by properly pricing our streets, we could immediately run express buses, with separate lanes and signal priority, on all the major avenues of Manhattan. This would instantly alleviate crowding on the subways and our streets, and help initiate a virtuous cycle that would make alternative transportation choices more tolerable all throughout the city.
This should've been done yesterday.
Considering the crushing density of Manhattan, it should cost no less than $50 to take a 4,000lb metal box into the most crowded, most expensive real estate in the country.
If we managed traffic by properly pricing our streets, we could immediately run express buses, with separate lanes and signal priority, on all the major avenues of Manhattan. This would instantly alleviate crowding on the subways and our streets, and help initiate a virtuous cycle that would make alternative transportation choices more tolerable all throughout the city.
This should've been done yesterday.
1
Congestion pricing has been proposed as an idea many times and always gets shot down for a variety of political reasons but I agree, it's something that needs to happen. With these new cashless tolling technologies and soon, self-driving cars, it should be easier to implement congestion pricing on private vehicles on Manhattan streets and open up more room for better public transit for everyone.
1
The F train from Queens stops at Roosevelt Island before hitting the island of Manhattan, and people can almost never get on in rush hour. At best, maybe five from a group of 25 manage to SHOVE their way onto the train at each door. Cornell Tech has opened there, and the amount of people will only grow as infrastructure grows on RI. There's no way this is sustainable.
5
I'm glad I live elsewhere and don't have to rely on the NYC subway. But who's surprised, really? Since I arrived in the US in 1975, Americans everywhere appear to have not demanded the kind of investment and planning that goes into the maintenance and renewal of key infrastructure like public roads and transportation. It's staggering in places as wealthy as NYC and San Francisco that roads and railways are in such dismal shape. Why would we let that happen? I know: government is the problem.
62
Right, Gerald. Those in government "serve" us to get rich. Is there a larger population of "suckers" than in the US? We indulge our "leaders" to get rich on our backs. Sad.
2
Two solutions may be possible apart from more trains.
1) An attitude that embraces more flexible work hours to further spread out rush hour, creating more flexibility for workers to show up to work at 10:00 or 10:30.
2) Designating certain cars for certain stops so that embarkation and debarkation are smoother.
1) An attitude that embraces more flexible work hours to further spread out rush hour, creating more flexibility for workers to show up to work at 10:00 or 10:30.
2) Designating certain cars for certain stops so that embarkation and debarkation are smoother.
1
As a long-time city dweller here is one solution that I have never seen tried, in any city: removing more of the seats in the cars. If half the cars had no seats, you would dramatically increase the capacity of the system, at a tiny fraction of the cost of buying more trains or building more lines.
2
They've done that in Chicago. Not all the seats, but some of the trains now have open sections at the ends to allow for more standing. Our cars are much smaller than NYC cars. Reaction has been...mixed. Loud, too.
Open gangway cars provide for this in a passive fashion. Some are coming, but too few and not soon enough.
Recently, at the end of the train where there are no seats, I've seen people sitting on the floor......with their pit bull.
I think this article lets Cuomo off the hook. Looking at a subway map from a few years ago shows off peak frequency at about 8 to 10 minutes between trains. Current maps show it at about 20 minutes. Waiting in a station for 20 minutes is not unusual for off peak times. After 20 minutes, or longer sometimes, the station is packed. I believe money for the 2nd avenue subway was found by taking it from the operating budget of the MTA, hence the decline in maintenance resulting in so many recurring problems.
3
This article is letting the MTA and the politicians completely off the hook. Blame all the problems on overcrowding and then say it's too expensive to fix? Perhaps the money spent on the motorcade that drives the mayor around should be reallocated to the MTA? Don't blame the people of NY.
132
I'm sorry but Debalsio may not control the subway issues, but we hired him to represent and fight for the people of NYC. He's done a terrible job so far and is horrible with money. His solution to the homeless problem: paying for hotels for the hundreds of thousands per day which gives the city ZERO equity and makes the hotel owners flush with cash. He is NOT a creative thinker or manager. Half the time he's late for everything. While Deblasio takes his black cars an hour south to park slope the people of park slope are late to work waiting on trains. If Cuomo says we need more money Mr Debalsio then you need to find a solution. This two are being extremely childish and is costing us jobs. The MTA is also terribly corrupt and needs a full audit for accountability. Sit at the table and FIX this problem and it's not solved by "bike" lanes. If he expands bike lanes this is going to make it worse as more busses will need to be added while this issue is resolved. It's sad that I can drive somewhere faster in Brooklyn than getting there by train.
4
Dwell time is also affected by people who DO NOT STEP ALL THE WAY IN TO THE CAR but instead get in and stop, blocking others from boarding. Similarly, people crowd at the doors so they can quickly exit at their stop, even when their stop is not the next stop. Routinely people are IN THE WAY and they prevent. efficient exiting and entering. You would think people would wise up after years of riding the subway, but they do not. It is truyl infuriating because it causes problems and is just unthinking and inconsiderate. People just stand in the doorway and they are IN THE WAY. That's NYC for you-only I matter. I rode the subway from 1986 to 2016, and it just did not change. The MTA has to STIGMATIZE this behavior in order to get improvement.
33
The DC Metro (WMATA) has the same exact issues, and more. The whole system has *CBTC* from the get go but it has been disabled since that major crash on the red line ~7 years ago.
1
Simple solution but it requires total redesign of the system:
1) have a boarding area accessible only via turnstiles that let in only a set number of people just before approaching train stops.
2) have exiting passengers exit first, preferably on the opposite side from boarding passengers, or it the station layout doesn't permit that, from different doors not accessed by boarding passengers.
3) once exiting passengers are out, open doors accessible to the boarding passengers, limiting the time that the doors are open.
4) only after train doors are closed do you let the next set of boarding passengers enter the boarding area.
5) it is possible the numbers that you let into the boarding area can be calculated by knowing how many passengers are exiting at a given stop. This could be accomplished by having exiting passengers declare their intent to exit via a smartphone app, or by having them push a button on their seat. Such an information gathering system could make the whole process more efficient, although whether the passengers would use it properly is another question.
1) have a boarding area accessible only via turnstiles that let in only a set number of people just before approaching train stops.
2) have exiting passengers exit first, preferably on the opposite side from boarding passengers, or it the station layout doesn't permit that, from different doors not accessed by boarding passengers.
3) once exiting passengers are out, open doors accessible to the boarding passengers, limiting the time that the doors are open.
4) only after train doors are closed do you let the next set of boarding passengers enter the boarding area.
5) it is possible the numbers that you let into the boarding area can be calculated by knowing how many passengers are exiting at a given stop. This could be accomplished by having exiting passengers declare their intent to exit via a smartphone app, or by having them push a button on their seat. Such an information gathering system could make the whole process more efficient, although whether the passengers would use it properly is another question.
1
Interesting perspective here: blame the train delays on the people who ride them, not the mismanagement of funds by a public authority (one that spends billions annually just to service its own debt of ~30 billion).
Cities like Denver and Minneapolis have plans to complete hub and spoke light rail systems within the next several decades.
Go Timberwolves!
Cities like Denver and Minneapolis have plans to complete hub and spoke light rail systems within the next several decades.
Go Timberwolves!
36
Why don't you start by finishing what you have started with bicycling advocacy. Dedicated bike lanes on every single avenue including Fifth avenue. Dedicated plows for bridges and bike lanes every snow storm. End the regime of ticketing and blaming cyclists by the NYPD. Let the bikes take over the city as in Amsterdam. Allow for "Idaho Stop" laws where cyclists are permitted to treat a stop sign as a yield and a red light as a stop sign. Biking in the city can and should be much, much safer for everyone including pedestrians. Focus on the 25mph speed limit for drivers and catching cars that run red lights and turn into bike lanes without yielding and double park in the dedicated bike lane. Roll out mandatory indoor bicycle parking for the employees of every company employing over 30 employees, including movie theaters, hotels and large corporations. And for those of you who believe cyclists should be treated as an automobile under the law ask yourself this Question: If bicycles are as dangerous to pedestrians as cars why is it hat children under 12 are required to ride their bikes only on the sidewalk? The answer: Because Cyclists are by nature more akin to pedestrians are are actually in the category of pedestrians more so than automobiles. This is because the vulnerability of the cyclist far outweighs the damage they are likely to cause. If you make bikes a true alternative you could actually ease train strain. Electric bikes are perhaps the one area in need of restriction.
7
Yes!!
We've been doing that and it's not working the way we hoped. We're going to need more cars and busses until this issue is fixed so putting MORE bike lanes into NYC streets is the wrong way to do it. One he solves this problem THEN you add more. Executives are cabbing it to meetings. It's a real problem. Currently businesses that need cars are having a heck of a time making deliveries. Taxis will be utilized as not everyone in a suit can bike to work in heels from brooklyn and queens into the city. Also the speed limit issue is a non issue because traffic is so bad you can't go over 25 mph even if you wanted to.
1
A, you're funny. Nothing will change until we become less greedy and selfish and act more civilized, acknowledge that there are other people besides you occupying the city. Bicycles? Don't be silly, they're for kids. Who wants a bike when you can have a big new shiny car that lets people know how important you are.
People ask "Where is the money?" Ridership has doubled, tourism has swollen & the population has increased, yet little to no maintenance or building new lines has occurred while fares have sky rocketed. It is easy to blame mayors, legislators & unions, lazily chasing money via development, which is part of the problem, but the other problem is the structure of MTA itself.
From the original Metropolitan Transit Authority, MTA has sprawled past city subways, buses & ferries into commuter rail & buses, turning it into a statewide agency with the Governor as overlord & Nassau & Suffolk counties with seats on the board. The result is too many cooks, too broad a mission & money for urban transportation parceled out to commuter systems. MTA needs to get back to Metropolitan Transit, with Albany & outlying counties out of the mix. Commuter rail & buses need their own authority.
Restructuring MTA would require a period of stopping all development until transportation is brought into the present, & force city planning to have future development tied to transit of the future. Maintenance, new lines, etc., should be funded by municipal bonds & steep developer fees, not by East River bridge tolls...transit must unify the boroughs, not further divide them.
Transit is essential to the city's quality life, its future & its economic engine. If we want to keep our citizens, stay the premier city, grow our economy, we must bring transportation into the 21st century.
From the original Metropolitan Transit Authority, MTA has sprawled past city subways, buses & ferries into commuter rail & buses, turning it into a statewide agency with the Governor as overlord & Nassau & Suffolk counties with seats on the board. The result is too many cooks, too broad a mission & money for urban transportation parceled out to commuter systems. MTA needs to get back to Metropolitan Transit, with Albany & outlying counties out of the mix. Commuter rail & buses need their own authority.
Restructuring MTA would require a period of stopping all development until transportation is brought into the present, & force city planning to have future development tied to transit of the future. Maintenance, new lines, etc., should be funded by municipal bonds & steep developer fees, not by East River bridge tolls...transit must unify the boroughs, not further divide them.
Transit is essential to the city's quality life, its future & its economic engine. If we want to keep our citizens, stay the premier city, grow our economy, we must bring transportation into the 21st century.
5
The article simultaneously suggests that more trains are a partial solution while acknowledging that this won't help. This is because people crowd onto the first train that arrives, and that will make that specific train run slower because it will prolong passenger exit and entry. That will have the ripple effect that the article mentions. There has to be a way to regulate how many people get on the next arriving train to avert this overcrowding.
1
As we clawed our way off the farms, we established cities and granted them the authority to fulfill certain obligations we once provided individually. Among them are fire and police protection, road construction and maintenance, water and sewer treatment, solid waste removal, and many other things we consider basic city services. In the case of New York City (and other major metropolitan areas) we ceded that personal obligation with respect to mass transit systems.
But when the elected officials of those cities discovered that they can exchange money for almost any wish and receive votes, they start neglecting basic city services for high profile projects that accomplish those goals in the voting booth.
The citizens, over time, begin to see that the money spent on basic services, those items that are supposed to be a benefit to everyone, are being spent on items that benefit specific individuals or groups. And once you put those individual expenses on the books, it is impossible to get rid of them politically. So either taxes go up, or basic city services suffer.
Both conditions result in flight from the city by people and companies who provide the tax base thereby lowering revenue collections. And the downward spiral continues. Eventually even the money individually doled out dries up and you are left with a gigantic ghetto.
Just remember that as you watch your city devolve; you elected your own leaders who, in turn, gave away the store.
But when the elected officials of those cities discovered that they can exchange money for almost any wish and receive votes, they start neglecting basic city services for high profile projects that accomplish those goals in the voting booth.
The citizens, over time, begin to see that the money spent on basic services, those items that are supposed to be a benefit to everyone, are being spent on items that benefit specific individuals or groups. And once you put those individual expenses on the books, it is impossible to get rid of them politically. So either taxes go up, or basic city services suffer.
Both conditions result in flight from the city by people and companies who provide the tax base thereby lowering revenue collections. And the downward spiral continues. Eventually even the money individually doled out dries up and you are left with a gigantic ghetto.
Just remember that as you watch your city devolve; you elected your own leaders who, in turn, gave away the store.
1
Steve - the MTA is funded by the state, not the city.
2
Are you implying that the state of New York does not elect its governing officials? The same holds true at any level of government.
I'm not, but you had referred to "the elected officials of those cities."
Actually, the main culprit isn't overcrowding, it's the fact that the people who control the MTA refuse to undertake any long-term solutions. They delay the inevitable to -- I don't know -- improve their own political standing, or save money in the short-term, or whatever. But one day the inevitable will come and it will be that much worse for delaying it for decades. But the people in charge now will be long gone by then, so what do they care?
6
If only there was some head of a state government out there that could contribute funds to the Agency he runs and dedicate those funds to infrastructure upgrades only. If only there was something out there that could do that... Too bad we don't have something like that...
6
Mta is making millions $ every month but we are still in stinky dirty subway stations, every day they have signal problem or incident, this is the cause of delays not overcrowding. Old, not renovated infrastructure, no regular maintenance- these are cause of delays and signal problems. Every day im late cause of their signal problem, not because of overcrowding. Who controls how mta spends their earnings? Why do we pay highest price for the worse service in the world?
5
I find it amazing, that the NY Times has now started to buy the spin put out by the MTA. MTA is the only business in the world that blames its customers for their own incompetence. The trains are overcrowded and slowed in stations because (a) the customers have NO FAITH that another train will come quickly because of some other "track condition" and (b) because in the spirit of trying to keep moving the operators of the doors close the doors on people, that are STILL disembarking or trying to get on because it took too long for folks to get off. Infrastructure has been neglected for profit. Sad. Pathetic. Stop blaming us who have to deal with consistent fare increases, and turn that mirror around.
56
Agree George. Completely unacceptable. If the Government wants growth, they need to keep up the infrastructure to accommodate growth instead of blaming every day New Yorkers who rely on the MTA. We pay their salaries-they should be accommodating us-not the other way around.
Shame on you NY Times.
Shame on you NY Times.
2
Andrew Coumo is to blame for the problems primarily.
He diverted funds needed for basic operations of the transit system to build a shiny new bridge across the Hudson River, that he wants to name after his father.
He also had some real political hacks doing jobs they had no skill for when it comes to running the subway, but that's gonna change now apparently.
But if you want to stick with the 'overcrowding theme' just look at how many state troopers are driving around Manhattan and the Bronx now, as per Cuomo's orders. I think the NYPD is large enough to take care of the boroughs.
.
He diverted funds needed for basic operations of the transit system to build a shiny new bridge across the Hudson River, that he wants to name after his father.
He also had some real political hacks doing jobs they had no skill for when it comes to running the subway, but that's gonna change now apparently.
But if you want to stick with the 'overcrowding theme' just look at how many state troopers are driving around Manhattan and the Bronx now, as per Cuomo's orders. I think the NYPD is large enough to take care of the boroughs.
.
5
Cuomo and Albany are at least 50% of the problem. They pass the buck, add riders, siphon off money, and generally F over the population of NYC for political gain all while showing up for ribbon cuttings and patting themselves on the back. Too bad people don't care or know enough to vote.
This article favors the MTA. Shame!!
We need MORE trains and frequent trains = less people waiting on the platform and that will bring dwell time down for each train.
MTA brings in 1.7 TRILLION $$ annually. It's a public service - get more trains and that will bring NYC to the level of most european metro lines which have frequent service instead of overcrowded platforms!
We need MORE trains and frequent trains = less people waiting on the platform and that will bring dwell time down for each train.
MTA brings in 1.7 TRILLION $$ annually. It's a public service - get more trains and that will bring NYC to the level of most european metro lines which have frequent service instead of overcrowded platforms!
1
The solution is very simple ,add hundreds of new express buses,not the coach seats.The transit should charge the regular fare of $2.75.This is a disaster waiting to happen.My solution makes perfect sense.The added expense would offset major lawsuits against the transit if a horrendous accident happens.Please give my idea to the city.Regular buses should be available everywhere to transport people into the city.This will encourage less people to use the trains.
1
There are 5 boroughs that make up the city of New York. Rather than rezoning to build more condos in Manhattan for global oligarchs to hide their wealth, perhaps we should be rezoning to encourage more business/medical/office centers in Brooklyn, Queens and the Bronx so that people could work in the boroughs they live and then bike/bus/walk to work.
4
There also needs to be an incentive for corporate employers to allow employees to work remotely, at least part of the time. I work in tech and media, and I've only worked one place where the division head let people work remotely, and they had to be over a certain level. Other places are very suspicious of it, and it's just dumb.
If the subway usage has jumped from 4million riders to 6million riders a day, then revenues have increased 50%. That should be direct jump in cashflows given the system is a fixed costs, fixed infrastructure system. That extra money should fund the debt service on bonds for capital expenditures. Somehow this concept seems to have gotten un-discussed in the media. Where is the extra money going?
2
Increased usage is not a direct 1 to 1 increase in fare revenue, let alone the increased operational costs of running and maintaining more service. For one thing, the advent of the unlimited ride Metrocard has led to a reduction in the average fare paid since the 90s, and it's also led to an increase in ridership overall.
1
It is misleading to say that the ridership is highest since the 1940's only because the system has undergone a net shrinkage since then. Chiefly this has been because of the dismantlement of the elevated lines in Manhattan that were on Ninth, Sixth, and Second Avenues. At that time second avenue meant all the way to Chatham Square. To say nothing of the demolished lines in the Bronx and Brooklyn (the former still visible in the 1970's film "The
French Connection.") And let's not forget the Rockaway line in Queens. While it prettified the streets, the financial bonanza that befell real estate failed to trickle back to maintain the system and grow it underground. What we are coping with now is arguably a diminished version of what existed in the Forties for the benefit of landlords.
French Connection.") And let's not forget the Rockaway line in Queens. While it prettified the streets, the financial bonanza that befell real estate failed to trickle back to maintain the system and grow it underground. What we are coping with now is arguably a diminished version of what existed in the Forties for the benefit of landlords.
3
Hmmm. If the "main culprit" is overcrowding, and this is more significant than aging infrastructure, but still only accounts for 30 percent of delays, what bundle of monkeys makes up the other 70 percent? My experience with the NY subway is limited to Brooklyn and Manhattan, but I think it's pretty good, and far better than the bus system. Subway systems that work well in major cities are always crowded, particularly at peak times. I'd take the increased ridership as an indication of success. If it takes longer to load and unload a train at peak times, the problem is how the stats guys are measuring things.
1
Agree. They should take a page out of the airlines playbook who increased their on time performance by including in their flight schedule the expected delays to taxi to runways.
Can't spend money to upgrade trains, but at least there's plenty of money to pay weapons manufacturers for military hardware. We have become such a backwards country compared to others who have leaders that think ahead instead of filling their pockets and those of friends.
82
The military is a Constitutional mandated function of the federal government. New York City's transit system is not. They have nothing to do with each other.
3
It's the mindset that matters here. I'm making a point about our government in general.
The defense industry could easily adapt to building trains. Offer them a contract and see what happens.
Actually, adding train cars seems like a solution that is fairly quick, simple, and, given the added ridership revenues, affordable.
2
Funny, but I remember crowded trains back in the early 1950s when I was kid. We traveled from the Bronx to Manhattan and then onward to Brooklyn. Weekends as well as weekdays were loaded with travelers. I remember the "Big people" hanging on straps and the dearth of seats for some elderly. The old black trains often had riders walking or riding between cars because of the crowding. And trains often skipped a stop. Sometimes we'd wait for what seemed an endless time as we stood on deserted platforms on the Jerome Avenue "L"or the platform near Prospect Park, only to have to take the next train because it was too crowded. This isn't something new. Overcrowding has been going on for ages. Find another excuse.
72
Jay, you're correct in your recollection of overcrowding being an issue back then—as the article says, the MTA today has its highest ridership since the 1940s. However, you're solution of "finding another excuse" is misguided: just because it was overcrowded seventy years ago doesn't mean it wasn't a problem then too, as your comment attests. We should demand more of our government and public services—back then and today—for vital lifelines like the subway (one of the world's busiest).
8
you are correct. i've been here for 19 years and it's always been packed. what HAS changed is the fact that they never run on time anymore.
3
I read that the average number of daily riders in 1955 was 1.3 million vs. 5.6 million today. So there are actually many more people using the subways.
1
Part of the problem is the massive amount of rezoning done to neighborhoods by Michael Bloomberg without any consideration for the strain on local transportation. "we'll put in ferry service" If neighborhoods were unable to support their population TRIPLING (see Williamsburg and the L train) they should not have been allowed to build the ridiculous amount of apartments that are being built. Why aren't they building 6 or 7 high rises on Bloomberg's block on the upper east side? He would never permit it. The rezoning should have been done on a much smaller scale and at a much slower pace.
5
I was at Javits a few weeks ago, and on my way home, I hopped on the 7 train at the Hudson Yards stop. Before I went down into the station, I took a look around at the massive new buildings going up like weeds in that area, soon to be occupied by thousands of people, and I wondered to myself: the real estate developers build the buildings, lease or sell the space, and walk away with the cash, but who will provide all of the necessary infrastructure and services for the people coming and going from those buildings, and who will be blamed when those systems are deemed inadequate?
That subway stop suddenly seemed very small and isolated.
That subway stop suddenly seemed very small and isolated.
1
If left untreated, this condition can lead to an outbreak of "escape from New York."
1
I notice that the city buses are all being replaced with new blue ones, which look like they may have windows that actually open. This is a welcome change, but if we can have new buses, why can't we have newer and more train cars? Also why doesn't the MTA consider light rail routes, on busy avenues like 1st Ave or busy crosstown routes, with dedicated lanes and green light priority and also a cheaper alternative to more subway lines. One more suggestion, since riders are increasingly stranded in sauna like stations, couldn't some sort of ventilation or cooling be provided? Come on Gov Cuomo. I know you hate Mayor DeBlasio and you enjoy having New York City residents blame him for the subway woes. But couldn't you do something, anything, to help the city anyway.
2
This clip shows a very dangerous hazard. Where is the partition between people and the tracks? Someone could fall or be pushed onto them and be chewed up by the wheels of a train or electrocuted.
For example, Thailand has partitions. Their sky train pulls up and the doors on the partition open. Denver airport subway, same thing. The train pulls up and partition doors open.
Who is responsible for this obvious NYC subway very, very dangerous condition?
For example, Thailand has partitions. Their sky train pulls up and the doors on the partition open. Denver airport subway, same thing. The train pulls up and partition doors open.
Who is responsible for this obvious NYC subway very, very dangerous condition?
The NYC subway is far larger and far older than either of those systems you mention. And yes, sometimes people do fall on the tracks, though its is rarer than you would think. Installing partitions would be prohibitively expensive. If you want to pay for partitions, feel free to send a check to Mr. Cuomo.
Most subways around the world don't have platform doors, the exceptions being very new systems and fully-automated ones like airport people movers. One of the problems in NYC, apart from cost, is that the doors don't line up on different models of rail cars. It's also pretty unlikely you'd be electrocuted if you fell into the track bed since the third rail is always on the far side.
London's Underground is older than NY. However it is much cleaner and has been regularly modernized.
Can weekend delays be examined separately?
Between delays and rerouting for repair work, weekend spins through
the turnstile seem like playing a slot machine, where the only jackpot
is decent ride.
Between delays and rerouting for repair work, weekend spins through
the turnstile seem like playing a slot machine, where the only jackpot
is decent ride.
2
Yes, and today's mass transit disruption notification--from the derailing, which happened yesterday--only went out today at 8:06 am. Many people are already on their way to work at that time.
1
We are victims of the success of the city as a magnet for population. When you go from 7 million to 8.6 million and more and more want to use the subways because traffic on the surface is so bad, you get crowding on the subways.
Going back to my Econ101 course, would not one solution be to raise the fare and induce people to think twice about getting on the subway. Maybe eliminate those rides with less than two stops. It never made sense to me how one ride for one station cost the same as one ride from Far Rockaway to NYC.
In general as NYC becomes this more crowded and unlivable should this not also cause people to move out to seek a better life-style?
In general as NYC becomes this more crowded and unlivable should this not also cause people to move out to seek a better life-style?
1
Hot, crowded, and delayed trains winding through steaming, smelly platforms were a big reason I moved out to seek a better lifestyle. A second big reason was the desire to own a patch of grass (still within an hour of the city to enjoy its many benefits) that I could survey in the evening and early morning. When I tripped and cut my chin coming out of a subway station, and several Wall Street types in suits laughed as I dabbed the blood off my chin (instead of offering me a tissue or asking if I was okay), I knew it was time to go.
31
Ah, yes, the old "soak the poor" principle from Econ 101. Increasing fares is only a deterrent if people have other options. The vast majority does not have a choice whether to take the train twice a day, five times a week or not. I don't, and I'm a professional. The only result of raising fares (which have been raised a number of times in recent years) is to make people who rely on the subway pay more. It's not a matter of paying more or getting a taxi. It's a matter of getting to work or not. There's no choice involved for most.
9
What utter nonsense. The MTA has been flogging this overcrowding excuse for several years.
Anyone who checks mta.info regularly knows that the now daily delays are NEVER attributed to overcrowding. Ever. They are attributed to equipment failures or some "earlier incident."
As for the MTA's measure of on time performance, who cares? The MTA has never shown that getting a subway train from point A to point B by its unpublished schedule is the same as getting riders from home to work and back again expeditiously and without unexplained delays. On the contrary, in some delays, the MTA will send local trains on an express track, and inconvenience thousands of riders, but declare those trains on time when they arrive at their terminus.
The solution is to fire much of the management at the MTA, including that board of political hacks, and replace them with managers who will solve problems in ways that minimize inconvenience to riders and implement widely available and years-old technologies, such as GPS or something similar, that will help MTA employees better operate the system.
Anyone who checks mta.info regularly knows that the now daily delays are NEVER attributed to overcrowding. Ever. They are attributed to equipment failures or some "earlier incident."
As for the MTA's measure of on time performance, who cares? The MTA has never shown that getting a subway train from point A to point B by its unpublished schedule is the same as getting riders from home to work and back again expeditiously and without unexplained delays. On the contrary, in some delays, the MTA will send local trains on an express track, and inconvenience thousands of riders, but declare those trains on time when they arrive at their terminus.
The solution is to fire much of the management at the MTA, including that board of political hacks, and replace them with managers who will solve problems in ways that minimize inconvenience to riders and implement widely available and years-old technologies, such as GPS or something similar, that will help MTA employees better operate the system.
4
Agreed. The MTA should be declared a monopoly and broken up by the state and/or federal governments.
Um, then why isn't this a problem in Tokyo?!?
110
Tokyo (and London/Network Rail for that matter) had extensive Enterprise Asset Management implementations. These programs establish standard processes and mold them into a single framework, make full use of their resources, and improve asset visibility and planning. According to NYC/Albany lobbyists, the MTA and the Governor Cuomo are consistently delaying the program despite being in procurement.
2
It is pretty staggering to see the scale of public transport in Tokyo metro area. Annual ridership of 13.5B (compared to 1.8B in NYC), 100+ lines of surface and subway rail connecting 2000+ stations among multiple public and private operators. All of this built from practically scratch after WW2. It's obvious that they've invested a lot of money and effort in their system.
5
Probably because this is not a political issue there, so they have continuously upgraded all of the components of the system.
2
Never once mentioned in the article is that with increased ridership is increased fares. Fares that are supposed to be applied to maintenance and upkeep. But the story mentions aging equipment that is "patched together." Every day there are new notices of outages for maintenance that never get fixed properly. Then why blame the passengers? Fix the trains and tracks and the lines can keep their schedules. Stop wasteful projects like the Penn station connection to GCT that few will use and drain billions and billions from the system. This, in my opinion, is the problem with the subways: show up late, and then blame the passengers. Doesn't wash.
10
Who is blaming the passengers?
"Stop wasteful projects like the Penn station connection to GCT that few will use and drain billions and billions from the system."
Based on what? At rush hour, those shuttle trains are filled to the brim, just like every other train in the system. Just because you don't use it doesn't mean that lots of other NYers do not.
Based on what? At rush hour, those shuttle trains are filled to the brim, just like every other train in the system. Just because you don't use it doesn't mean that lots of other NYers do not.
1
The central premise is that the system is overcrowded however the article states that ridership is at 1940 levels, not higher, and the system has been expanded since the 1940's. More likely deferred maintenance and lack of modernization are at the heart of the problem. In respect to the taxpayer, the city should spend more on it's transportation system and less on programs such as those to house the homeless in a city with a high cost of living.
3
No sir, in the 1940s you had elevated lines in Manhattan that have since been removed and not replaced.
6
It needn't be either/or. A wealthy city should indeed prioritize housing the homeless. It is a public health issue, even if you lack the modicum of empathy it takes to see why shelters are a worthwhile endeavor. We pay to use the MTA. It need not come at the expense of other important objectives. What we ought to do is make anyone who owns a residence in NYC pay NYC tax, irrespective of whether they live here. That would solve a number of issues fairly efficiently.
Go look at China. They are building new subway systems in all their major cities. In Beijing spotless new trains run every two or three minutes on fourteen lines, with new lines under construction. The subway connects directly with the airport and all the train stations. The intercity high-speed trains travel at 180 miles per hour or more, so that you can go from the equivalent of New York to Chicago in six hours in a spotless, comfortable train. If the train is late, you know that your watch is wrong. American visitors to China quickly learn to change the subject when asked how fast our high-speed trains are.
If we are not willing to invest in our infrastructure, we will have miserable infrastructure. Enjoy your crowded trains, choked airports, potholed highways. You get what you vote for.
If we are not willing to invest in our infrastructure, we will have miserable infrastructure. Enjoy your crowded trains, choked airports, potholed highways. You get what you vote for.
134
Right. But comparing Beijing to NYC is oranges to (the big) apple. NYC has massive infrastructure essentially locked in place since 1900 or 1930. All with a vested interest and lots of protections and regulations. It's almost impossible to imagine when you could put more train lines in terms of the feasibility of avoiding obstacles. The 2nd Ave subway was a monstrously complicated undertaking for these very reasons. And that was the in the newer easier straight shot part of Manhattan. Getting it down to lower Manhattan through the twists and turns is daunting to say the least. In China, if they want to, they've just bulldoze old neighborhoods and no one can say much about it. It's the same for Amtrak and the northeast corridor: easy to say we ought to have fast trains between Washington DC and Boston, but when you look at a map it's immediately apparent that carving a route that would allow for fast trains is essentially impossible given what you'd have to uproot. That's the legacy of dense growth from the nineteenth century on up.
4
The Chinese government has learned that if they build things like trains it will lead to a better economic situation for all. Pure Keynsean logic. Our country has these things called republicans who don't understand that. PB
@John Walbridge: You are comparing apples & oranges to compare long-distance high-speed trains with the NYC subway.
PS: While you're lauding those brilliant Chinese engineers, let's discuss air quality in those Chinese cities, shall we?
PS: While you're lauding those brilliant Chinese engineers, let's discuss air quality in those Chinese cities, shall we?
2
Just look at the videos in this article for an indication of the problem. There are huge gaps between trains due to the combination of antiquated signals and poor maintenance practices that reduce the max speed of the trains. If you could have a new train pull into the station at each track every minute the total capacity would dramatically increase.
14
When will we learn that when population increases, government funding should also increase if services are to be maintained at the same level? Unfortunately, taxation has become the bogeyman of the right and the call goes out for lower tax rates for profitable private businesses. Universities, schools, social services, and others in the public sector are told "to do more with less." Yet many Americans can afford houses that are bigger than they need and have more money than they could ever spend. With private wealth booming among the haves and a healthy economy, why shouldn't tax rates be increased for the well-off? If population growth provides more profits for big business, big business owners should not be allowed to "keep more of their own money" but rather should contribute more in taxes for much needed infrastructure and services that everybody (including them) uses.
3
The New York subway is in desperate need of a modern signaling system. It's not a surprise that the only subway line upgraded to 21st century standards, the (L), also happens to be the most on-time line in the city. Instead of the antiquated "block" signaling system—in which trains occupy long stretches of track called "blocks" and red/green signals forcibly prevent other trains from entering those blocks in order to prevent collisions—(L) trains automatically adjust their speed based on how far away the next train is using a system called CBTC. CBTC, and other signaling systems like it, allow trains to safely operate at higher speeds and much closer together. Modern signals, alongside improved switches and expanded terminals, allow far more frequent service to address overcrowding.
In London, for example, many lines run trains every 2 minutes or so during peak hours. The Tube, which has much smaller trains and stations, was forced to figure out how to operate a dramatically more frequent service in order to even think about accommodating the surging ridership.
The MTA doesn't have plans to complete a modern signaling system for DECADES on all the lines. This needs to be dramatically accelerated in order to fix the woes, and that will only be enabled by a massive infrastructure investment from New York State, which owns the system.
In London, for example, many lines run trains every 2 minutes or so during peak hours. The Tube, which has much smaller trains and stations, was forced to figure out how to operate a dramatically more frequent service in order to even think about accommodating the surging ridership.
The MTA doesn't have plans to complete a modern signaling system for DECADES on all the lines. This needs to be dramatically accelerated in order to fix the woes, and that will only be enabled by a massive infrastructure investment from New York State, which owns the system.
81
What confuses me is if there are 80% more riders where does all that extra fare money go? How can we be running the same number of cars as we did in 1990 when ridership has basically doubled in the last few years? Where's the money?
3
Maybe we should look at the obscene union contracts that are driving up the cost of labor.
2
Part of it is trying to catch up to decades of deferred capital maintenance. You can't under invest in a system for 50 years and not expect to pay the price eventually.
6
Construction costs are very high, but I don't think it can all be attributed to union wages. The bidding process, the construction time, etc. are all issues.
It might be time to consider the possibility that the city's population is at its practical maximum now given the current size and condition of its infrastructure. Until infrastructure development can catch up, It might be wise to change zoning regulations to discourage the construction of new housing and instead provide incentives to renew and replace old and inadequate housing.
49
One, it's already very hard to build new housing in New York which is why only luxury apartments seem to get built. If you make it even harder, rents will increase even faster. Plus, if you just push folks to the suburbs and those folks commute in to work, that puts even MORE of a burden on the infrastructure, not less.
3
It seems to me it would make sense to tax construction to build new subways to serve it.
1
@David: You're on to something, but sadly that ship has sailed - there have been so many new high-rises built in Manhattan, Brooklyn and Queens (LIC, esp.), but with no apparent concern for how all those people are going to get around.
We now have far too many people using an overburdened system. Thank you, Mayor Bloomberg, for letting all your developer friends go hog wild, while not considering the infrastructure needs that MUST accompany development.
Part of the problem is also the riders: those who need to stare at their phones EVERY MINUTE, rendering them oblivious to what's going on around them, and those who will not move into the subway cars, and those with huge backpacks that they don't see a reason to take off, and those who are accompanied by SUV-size strollers, bicycles, etc.
It all adds up to subway gridlock, and I don't see how it gets any better in the near future.
We now have far too many people using an overburdened system. Thank you, Mayor Bloomberg, for letting all your developer friends go hog wild, while not considering the infrastructure needs that MUST accompany development.
Part of the problem is also the riders: those who need to stare at their phones EVERY MINUTE, rendering them oblivious to what's going on around them, and those who will not move into the subway cars, and those with huge backpacks that they don't see a reason to take off, and those who are accompanied by SUV-size strollers, bicycles, etc.
It all adds up to subway gridlock, and I don't see how it gets any better in the near future.
1
This is a warning for all growing cities and towns. Politicians and business leaders push expansion (new office buildings, new malls, etc.) to generate growth and revenue. But such growth must be accompanied by a true assessment of whether existing infrastructure can handle it and investing in that infrastructure to absorb the growth. Kudos to Mayor Bloomberg for making NYC grow, but it appears transportation infrastructure was ignored.
16
There is a huge construction area on the west side of Midtown.....it's all going to be "luxsury" apartments soon. In a few years Manhattan will reach 2 million ppl....good luck with that! To me, obsolete transportation, trash left on the sidewalks, and greed beyond limits, are the main problems here.
4
@Mark K.: No kudos to Bloomberg - it's just bad management to encourage enormous growth of residential buildings while ignoring the infrastructure to support the new residents. NYC did not have to "grow" the way Bloomberg wanted - it was doing fine on its own. The main "benefit" of Bloomberg's policies went to real estate developers. But, as Bloomberg said, NYC is a luxury location, and not everyone gets to live here - and now those who live here don't get to have reliable public transportation. That only matters to the "little people" who need public transit; Bloomberg's friends are all in limousines.
1
As one who first rode the NYC subways in the late 1940s, I can tell you that there never was a time when levels of passengers comparable to those now existing led to the kind of mess we have now. One missing factor in this analysis is the change in distribution of populations due to development of large previously less populated or unpopulated areas in the outer boroughs and other factors which have increased the distances riders travel and thus the # of bodies per mile per hour.
27
Where did the extra 800,000,000 riders per year come from, since 1990? The City's population has nearly doubled since then? This does not make sense.
Not all riders are from the city. Some are suburban, some are tourists. Some of the ridership increase is also due to higher levels of employment than 1990 and the subway's increasing popularity vis-a-vis driving into Manhattan. And finally, in 1990 we used tokens and had to pay for every ride. Now you have unlimited ride cards with unlimited transfers.
2
I think a contributing factor is the cutbacks in bus service driving people who may have taken a surface transport into the subway instead. An unscientific and therefore possibly poor example is my experience on the UWS. Broadway is an absolute desert with the M104 appearing at such long intervals that I have given up on using it.
5
Possibly additional commuters from NJ and CT.
1
If the NYC transportation withers along as it has, it will die and NYC along with it - no money for Gov. Cuomo to toss at everything else. Tokyo, Paris, London all have "Clean", safe running subway systems as many other cities do too. Capital funds are required to elevate safety standards, insure maintenance and plan for new subway cars on an end-of-life equipment schedule. How about enforcing no eating or drinking in the system itself? How about hosing, cleaning and scrubbing interior cars, platforms and tracks once a week? How about increasing security via cameras to pinpoint problems and dispatch Police, ambulances and work crews where problems present themselves? Seems to me that Operational issues are questionable for our subway system. Gov Cuomo - give up your NYC oversight - you have done a poor job.