i think both stories are bias towards the young ladies' plight.
I think it is a birthright of the Mexican people to cross the border into the United States. We are however a nation of laws. The law makers must have been sleeping at their desks, to ensure the ladies' and their families' plight. BTW by my name you would think I speak Polish but I don't. As for the identity, I think the words Hispanic and Latino are politically correct and we certainly live in a politically correct nation, which I believe is a suppression of speech. John Stuart Mill in his book On Liberty describes it best. IMO
Now Who to vote for? I believe you vote for the candidate that will help you the most. Voting for him or her is depressing.IMO
I thank you for the opportunity to express my thoughts and good luck on your careers ladies.
I think it is a birthright of the Mexican people to cross the border into the United States. We are however a nation of laws. The law makers must have been sleeping at their desks, to ensure the ladies' and their families' plight. BTW by my name you would think I speak Polish but I don't. As for the identity, I think the words Hispanic and Latino are politically correct and we certainly live in a politically correct nation, which I believe is a suppression of speech. John Stuart Mill in his book On Liberty describes it best. IMO
Now Who to vote for? I believe you vote for the candidate that will help you the most. Voting for him or her is depressing.IMO
I thank you for the opportunity to express my thoughts and good luck on your careers ladies.
2
These two young women are bright, talented and would be a wonderful asset to any community. Why are we marginalizing them, wasting this human resource? Our country desperately needs young people like this. We must make a pathway to citizenship for them.
1
I am a legal immigrant. Why do they not show any appreciation for how our Nation has taken care of them and given them education and benefits they do not deserve as illegal immigrants. I am sick and tired of illegal immigrants coming to the USA, use our education system among other benefits. Then, whine that they do not have the same privileges and opportunities of legal residents and citizens, all the while they are illegal. The best solution is to send them home and hope they will have appreciation for what our Nation has given them.
10
It's a fantasy that we want a borderless country or one in which all cultures are equal.
This is a secular nation of laws. Our great heritage is this: that everyone, regardless of political power or perceived superiority of birth--by whatever metric used--is equal before the law. Of course in reality, the ideal often falls short.
But anyone who thinks laws can be ignored in service of some higher plane of justice hasn't lived in countries where the rule of law is a mockery.
Everyone who thinks it's great we seem to be moving towards a bilingual nation hasn't lived in places where bilingualism is the law.
People used to immigrate here and become American or at least their children did. To be American meant not being held hostage to traditions or customs that, in the old country, might have been enforced in sometimes deadly ways.
Now the ease of travel and the ubiquity of social media apps means that people really don't ever need to leave anything behind. Many come to America not to become part of this unique culture but to prosper economically and keep feet in two worlds. Many do not in the least value the concepts that make America unique, although we often fall short of those founding ideals. They just want to take, without adapting their own ways of thinking.
You don't like the law? Change it through lawful means. You don't want to bother? You're not what America needs.
This is a secular nation of laws. Our great heritage is this: that everyone, regardless of political power or perceived superiority of birth--by whatever metric used--is equal before the law. Of course in reality, the ideal often falls short.
But anyone who thinks laws can be ignored in service of some higher plane of justice hasn't lived in countries where the rule of law is a mockery.
Everyone who thinks it's great we seem to be moving towards a bilingual nation hasn't lived in places where bilingualism is the law.
People used to immigrate here and become American or at least their children did. To be American meant not being held hostage to traditions or customs that, in the old country, might have been enforced in sometimes deadly ways.
Now the ease of travel and the ubiquity of social media apps means that people really don't ever need to leave anything behind. Many come to America not to become part of this unique culture but to prosper economically and keep feet in two worlds. Many do not in the least value the concepts that make America unique, although we often fall short of those founding ideals. They just want to take, without adapting their own ways of thinking.
You don't like the law? Change it through lawful means. You don't want to bother? You're not what America needs.
7
As an immigrant myself I can definitely feel for the situations of both women. However I am an immigrant that arrived through the proper processes and I can't help but question the foresight of the girls parents in setting the girls up to be in this situation.
I understand that the parents moved here for a better life, however as a parent you need to think about how the illegal status will affect your children not born in the USA.
I am fortunate enough to be able to work, drive, pay taxes and own a home as a permanent resident. It would be very difficult for me as a parent to knowingly bring my children into a situation where they do not have the same opportunities.
As parents we need to ask ourselves: Is it really a better life if we bring our children to a country that does not give them the rights that we have in our country of origin? As a parent I have spent all my time and money educating myself and going about the immigration process the right way so my kids can enjoy the same freedoms as I do as a legal permanent resident and soon to be US citizen.
I understand that the parents moved here for a better life, however as a parent you need to think about how the illegal status will affect your children not born in the USA.
I am fortunate enough to be able to work, drive, pay taxes and own a home as a permanent resident. It would be very difficult for me as a parent to knowingly bring my children into a situation where they do not have the same opportunities.
As parents we need to ask ourselves: Is it really a better life if we bring our children to a country that does not give them the rights that we have in our country of origin? As a parent I have spent all my time and money educating myself and going about the immigration process the right way so my kids can enjoy the same freedoms as I do as a legal permanent resident and soon to be US citizen.
8
I would love to see people who have grown up here be granted full citizenship, for themselves and their parents; I would totally welcome you and your families. I'm surprised and saddened by the comments that go on about current laws; we know about these laws, however, there have been many laws in the past that defy common sense, and humans have often benefited greatly once these laws have been changed or abolished. We remember some of them with shame. I believe many laws are made from fear, rather than wisdom.
On a more personal note, Dalia and Aracely, I just wanted to tell you that when I visited Mexico, I was treated warmly and kindly, even though I was way off the tourist track. I was warned ahead of time never to leave the tourist areas with my white skin, red hair, and freckles, but the people I met in Mexico's interior were consistently kind and generous. I'm wishing America could be as welcoming to you, so that you could feel this is your forever home-- or for as long as you choose it.
As I contemplate current events, I can't help but think of Robert Frost's famous poem, "Mending Wall." The poem begins, "Something there is that doesn't love a wall," ...
On a more personal note, Dalia and Aracely, I just wanted to tell you that when I visited Mexico, I was treated warmly and kindly, even though I was way off the tourist track. I was warned ahead of time never to leave the tourist areas with my white skin, red hair, and freckles, but the people I met in Mexico's interior were consistently kind and generous. I'm wishing America could be as welcoming to you, so that you could feel this is your forever home-- or for as long as you choose it.
As I contemplate current events, I can't help but think of Robert Frost's famous poem, "Mending Wall." The poem begins, "Something there is that doesn't love a wall," ...
1
I don't need to read either one of their stories. They are part of America's long history of immigrants from all over the world. Thats what makes America such an "exceptional" country. The exceptionalism that the far right speaks of should also include with great pride the diversity that makes our country so "exceptional".
I'm an immigrant from Japan. Doesn't matter the particulars. Over the course of my life here, I've witnessed the gradual build up of anxiety and hate from the extremist as the demographics has slowly swung the minorities to the majority.
What I never understood was the fact that globally the minorities have always been the majority. Why hasn't the extremist ever see that?
Every group has arrived here with the intent to work hard with aspirations for their futures and for their children's future. Its a formula that can and has worked. Thats what makes America a most unique place to live. As I fly across the country and see the enormous amount of land between the two coasts, I can't stop to wonder that we have plenty of space, kind hearts and generosity for the Aracelys and the Dalias of the world. Yes! I've always been an idealist. America has taught me that.
I'm an immigrant from Japan. Doesn't matter the particulars. Over the course of my life here, I've witnessed the gradual build up of anxiety and hate from the extremist as the demographics has slowly swung the minorities to the majority.
What I never understood was the fact that globally the minorities have always been the majority. Why hasn't the extremist ever see that?
Every group has arrived here with the intent to work hard with aspirations for their futures and for their children's future. Its a formula that can and has worked. Thats what makes America a most unique place to live. As I fly across the country and see the enormous amount of land between the two coasts, I can't stop to wonder that we have plenty of space, kind hearts and generosity for the Aracelys and the Dalias of the world. Yes! I've always been an idealist. America has taught me that.
2
Pass the dream act and a real amnesty program. Let's distinguish between re-entry after deportation for the purpose of family reunification and the same act committed for the furtherance of criminal enterprise. What mother wouldn't re-cross the border reunite with her children?
Let's acknowledge that the U.S. has been the major culprit in setting up a system to encourage illegal immigration from the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo to NAFTA to increased border security after 9/11. These policies destroyed the livelihood of many Mexicans and raised the cost and danger level of crossing a border that runs through what used to be their own country.
We, as a nation, should be ashamed of ourselves.
Let's acknowledge that the U.S. has been the major culprit in setting up a system to encourage illegal immigration from the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo to NAFTA to increased border security after 9/11. These policies destroyed the livelihood of many Mexicans and raised the cost and danger level of crossing a border that runs through what used to be their own country.
We, as a nation, should be ashamed of ourselves.
4
As some others have noted, there's a decades-long backlog of legally-qualified applicants for permanent admission to this country. As families wait for their paperwork to be approved, minor children who would have qualified for sponsorship have aged out. Who wants to immigrate here and leave their children--even adult children--behind?
Those stories are as heartrending as the ones described here, and represent a more truthful injustice.
Those stories are as heartrending as the ones described here, and represent a more truthful injustice.
6
Why is the nytimes reporting that thes 2 women are worried about their and their parents future? There is no hint that these families are doing anything but leading exemplary lives. If they lived near me, I'd be interested in hiring anyone from these families in one of my companies! These families are living the American dream and they deserve to have permanent resident status. If the 2 the the 2 women are already citizens because they were born here their only concern must be for their parents. We have thousands of people from Mexico in line to become citizens in Austin. That is helping Austin be one of the most admired cities and grow faster than most cities their size in America.
I've been here since 1993 and personally see what good people can do. I do not believe honest Harvey wotking people will be kicked out of this country no matter who is president. I am in favor of permently deporting criminals and people who are not doing their part to creat a better America.
I've been here since 1993 and personally see what good people can do. I do not believe honest Harvey wotking people will be kicked out of this country no matter who is president. I am in favor of permently deporting criminals and people who are not doing their part to creat a better America.
Aracely should get a degree in Mexico and go back to the US with a scholarship to do an MA. There are scholarships in Universidad Autónoma del Estado de Morelos. Her parents could pay for that surely.
As for Dalia, sorry, but why do children have to solve their parents problems? Specially if that's legally impossible.
As for Dalia, sorry, but why do children have to solve their parents problems? Specially if that's legally impossible.
3
What most of us find hard to understand, is the value all of us have in our society. If we deport all eleven million illegal aliens, the damage to our economy would be great. For most citizens would demand fair honest wages for the work illegal aliens do now for very low pay.
There has to be a way for the child who were brought by their parents at a young age to this country, to become citizens of this country. for this is the only country they know!
There has to be a way for the child who were brought by their parents at a young age to this country, to become citizens of this country. for this is the only country they know!
Both of these young women are, in effect, American. We need to change the law to give them their rights as Americans. We also need to find a way to open a path for the parents of these girls and all the families in the same position. This dreadful election period has poisoned us all. We need to open our hearts and minds to immigration reform.
3
What continually gets lost in discussions of the terrible situation of the "Dreamers" is that fault lies in the hands of Obama & Co. Because these young people -- mostly now young adults -- had no moral agency in violating American law and most have lived here long enough to have been thoroughly Americanized (no, I don't find the term "racist") they should have -- and could have -- been legalized and given citizenship long ago with a stand-alone bi-partisan piece of legislation. But Obama has held them hostage to "comprehensive immigration reform," i.e. total amnesty for the illegal population and a doubling of legal immigration. The reason is obvious: they are the most attractive and sympathetic members of the "undocumented." The answer remains a stand-alone bill to free them from the false compassion of a duplicitous president. Such a bill should be accompanied not with an amnesty for their parents -- DAPA -- but a very liberal visa policy so they can visit their kids regularly. Those who consciously broke the law must not be rewarded, but compassion demands special treatment given the familial reality.
2
I must tell you that you are wrong. The DREAM Act is a stand-alone bill that died repeatedly in Congress. Congress failed to pass the DREAM Act. Obama was, and remains, ready and willing to sign the DREAM Act into law. The fault lies with Congress and principally the Republicans in Congress.
Still, the DREAM Act won't solve this country's immigration problems. Comprehensive immigration reform is sorely needed.
Still, the DREAM Act won't solve this country's immigration problems. Comprehensive immigration reform is sorely needed.
1
As a white woman in her late sixties, I would tell Aracely, not to be distracted by the insignificant--I have an Anglo name that was always misheard on the phone; it happens to everyone. Aracely needs to think deeply--and selfishly--about what she wants to accomplish and not what she wants for her sister or mother. No one types invoices anymore in offices or is/should be yelled at in an office environment. I may be reading too much into her negative comments on corporate life, but it seems to me that she is saying either it scares her that she might not have the right skills--undoubtedly she has--or that she would like to work in social services. In either case she must realize that eschewing the corporate work life for one in social services will have real earning consequences and she needs to recognize that and then make her life path head in the direction she wants it to take.
One, born here, will continue to thrive, work and contribute to our country. The other will live a marginal life in jobs which will probably underutilize her skills, never get a mortgage, a driver's license and consequently bind her to the locale where she is now. When she gets sick or injured she will get medical attention, which is required by law. She never contributed tax deductions over the years to help pay for this care because she couldn't. And finally the migration over the border will never be stopped. If you think about it what wouldn't you do to help your family? For me if a better life for my family was available on Mars I'd be gone.
Legislation that streamlines immigration for people with good academic credentials, could help the ladies in the article. That might help the US economy as well.
My Philippine wife and I lived in Tucson, Arizona for years. Several of the workers that we hired had lived in the US for years and had been deported more than once, so they will not qualify for legal documentation, even though some of them are good, honest, hard working family people.
My Philippine wife and I lived in Tucson, Arizona for years. Several of the workers that we hired had lived in the US for years and had been deported more than once, so they will not qualify for legal documentation, even though some of them are good, honest, hard working family people.
There is issue that I have not seen in these comments. If these families were white and entered this country from Canada would they be treated the same way? Would they be pulled over for looking suspicious?
Also, it takes courage, strength and perseverance to come to this country, legally or illegally. I think that given how difficult it is for those who come here illegally it takes a special kind or courage. They do not get the benefits that citizens do and they have to work much harder to make it in this country. These young women did not get any special breaks in school. They had to work harder than their peers. They have remarkable intelligence and drive and if given the opportunity to go to college without paying out of state fees, they can be assets to this country. It is such a waste to hold them back.
Also, it takes courage, strength and perseverance to come to this country, legally or illegally. I think that given how difficult it is for those who come here illegally it takes a special kind or courage. They do not get the benefits that citizens do and they have to work much harder to make it in this country. These young women did not get any special breaks in school. They had to work harder than their peers. They have remarkable intelligence and drive and if given the opportunity to go to college without paying out of state fees, they can be assets to this country. It is such a waste to hold them back.
2
Both of these women would be outstanding additions to the US.
The problem is that one of them is a citizen and one isn't, and their parents broke the law to bring them into the US. A previous comment said it best, give the woman brought into the US illegally by her parents a path to naturalization with no right to vote, ever. If we have immigration laws they need to be followed, otherwise we should just have open borders. But open borders aren't fair to the many people that have followed US laws and waited their turn. If you disagree with current immigration laws work to change them, don't ignore them.
The DREAM Act was just another amnesty program that rewards people for breaking the law. Every previous amnesty program has required another one 15 years later because it encourages even more lawbreaking.
The problem is that one of them is a citizen and one isn't, and their parents broke the law to bring them into the US. A previous comment said it best, give the woman brought into the US illegally by her parents a path to naturalization with no right to vote, ever. If we have immigration laws they need to be followed, otherwise we should just have open borders. But open borders aren't fair to the many people that have followed US laws and waited their turn. If you disagree with current immigration laws work to change them, don't ignore them.
The DREAM Act was just another amnesty program that rewards people for breaking the law. Every previous amnesty program has required another one 15 years later because it encourages even more lawbreaking.
3
Give these kids a chance. They are deserving and bring honor to our country.
2
"I was a baby when my parents moved in together. They had four more kids, all boys" and "Dalia, who voted for Bernie Sanders"... Besides, Williams is indeed a private school and can pretty much enroll anyone with a student visa. Most immigrants it can be safely assumed pay more taxes than Trump. Of course Trump can easily disprove me. I know the subtlety of this comparative essay is elusive but get this, ain't no laid off white guy in the rust belt waiting on Mama Lola 's job
1
Clearly Mexicans benefit from moving here. However, most Americans do not benefit from having Mexicans here. The majority of those here from Mexico illegally do not speak English, have little education and often have lots of children. They burden local school districts, overcrowd housing and create an underground economy that funnels money away from the tax base.
It is not up to Americans like me to put the wants of Mexicans above my own needs. Our government should certainly not do so. Let them pursue a better life in their own country not here.
It is not up to Americans like me to put the wants of Mexicans above my own needs. Our government should certainly not do so. Let them pursue a better life in their own country not here.
12
As much of a jingoistic talking point as it has been in our political discourse, we need to grant amnesty to people who are in this type of situation. That Aracely was unable to go onto college is part of a wider problem, and from a purely economic point of view, does the country no favors as her cumulative lifetime earnings have already been severely impacted by the years she has been frustrated. While it may sound like a progressive talking point, universal higher education would benefit both society and individuals, allowing both to contribute maximum value. Continuing this type of oppression and myopic economic policy serves no one.
6
As far as policy changes, I'd say change immigration law to make it easier for people to come to the U.S. I'm Jewish, the grandchild of immigrants from Eastern Europe who arrived in the early 1900s. If they hadn't been able to come to the U.S., they would have been murdered during the Holocaust. I never forget that. Nor do I forget how during the height of the extermination of European Jewry, the U.S. tightened its borders and stood by as thousands of people suffered and died.
This isn't just a matter of policy, though. I'd say what we really need is to be more humane and human. I learned a lot from reading about these two young women, but it was especially Dalia's comment that "Latino" is an identity that exists only in the U.S. struck me. Unfortunately, there is no way to legislate kindness or empathy.
This isn't just a matter of policy, though. I'd say what we really need is to be more humane and human. I learned a lot from reading about these two young women, but it was especially Dalia's comment that "Latino" is an identity that exists only in the U.S. struck me. Unfortunately, there is no way to legislate kindness or empathy.
2
I'm an immigrant and a US citizen for the past 65 years. I believe strongly that what makes the US the world's pre-eminent nation, unlike declining societies like Britain and Western Europe and Japan, is that we historically have welcomed immigrants with open arms. They infuse our national gene pool with new DNA that aspires to a better life and is willing to work hard to achieve it. And, yes, they often surpass us. Good for them and good for us. The current national hysteria about limiting immigration masquerades as a more polite way of saying that the Anglo culture that has dominated our nation and Western society and through it most of the world for a thousand years feels threatened by black, brown and yellow people. In fact, however, it is more pernicious than that--it is a violation of our founding principles and a destroyer of the true source of the American Exceptionalism that conservatives always attribute to raw competition. Bunk! Anyway, how does deporting and building a wall to keep out Latin American Roman Catholics help defuse the problem of Islamic terrorism? I think, by the way, that these two fine young Latinas are as Caucasian as I am, and that we should stop asking "are you white or Latina?" on all sorts of forms. We are them and they are us. Come to New York City, where the predominant skin color is coffee and no one looks twice at a mixed-race couple. It is our future. We should embrace it.
7
I agree with your letter except for the insult of Europe as a bunch of declining nations. Countries like Sweden and Germany accepts many more immigrants, most undocumented, than US has ever done. (Sweden last year 170,000, a proportion only found in the USA one year: 1913). And as to declining: both of these nations grow their economies faster than US and have a better average living standard in general. That is probably why you don't find many immigrants from there. And if they do come here for work, they return to a more secure aging in Europe.
1
Oh enough.
We've already turned Latinos into one in six people here -- most of them unskilled who impose burdens on many Americans. We don't really need more such people. It is not hysteria to tell unskilled Latinos to look elsewhere to get better lives.
I'm a liberal but I'm tired of being told to absorb Latin America's excess population or get accused of racism.
We've already turned Latinos into one in six people here -- most of them unskilled who impose burdens on many Americans. We don't really need more such people. It is not hysteria to tell unskilled Latinos to look elsewhere to get better lives.
I'm a liberal but I'm tired of being told to absorb Latin America's excess population or get accused of racism.
6
I think the NYT should put these young women's lives in context. Educate readers to dispel the economic arguments that are not true. For example, most undocumented workers pay taxes, of Aracely's $12.00 hr. wage she pays approx. $2.00 of taxes. Research by the Institute on Taxation & Economic Policy shows that undocumented immigrants paid $11.64 billion in state and local taxes in 2013. Employers hire these workers for many reasons - yes some exploit them as cheap labor, but most often it's because they are hard workers, who can be counted on to show up and do what's expected.
Upward mobility for a workforce of Immigrants - Irish, German, Polish, Chinese, etc. is what built the US economic engine. These young women and their families are here and contributing on the fringe of society. We need them to thrive and contribute, NYT please extrapolate what happens 15/25 yrs from now if we continue our downward spiral - under-educated 'Americans,' (60% need remedial education for community college level work) and marginalized 'others' who cannot aspire and achieve.
The only way to increase the working middle class is through investment in lives - schools, roads, new technologies, health care services, affordable housing and supportive services for parents, the disabled and seniors. This hunker-down mentality of scarcity and fear of others, is a bottomless pit that needs to be paved over with accurate information and a sound, inclusive economic and social plan.
Upward mobility for a workforce of Immigrants - Irish, German, Polish, Chinese, etc. is what built the US economic engine. These young women and their families are here and contributing on the fringe of society. We need them to thrive and contribute, NYT please extrapolate what happens 15/25 yrs from now if we continue our downward spiral - under-educated 'Americans,' (60% need remedial education for community college level work) and marginalized 'others' who cannot aspire and achieve.
The only way to increase the working middle class is through investment in lives - schools, roads, new technologies, health care services, affordable housing and supportive services for parents, the disabled and seniors. This hunker-down mentality of scarcity and fear of others, is a bottomless pit that needs to be paved over with accurate information and a sound, inclusive economic and social plan.
2
Most illegals work off the books and pay little in taxes. Furthermore more than half of all immigrants are getting welfare, making them a net loss fiscally. These families are contributing little at best and demanding, almost unbelievably, to have their wants put above the needs of the legal, law abiding American public.
2
"Undocumented immigrants' nationwide average effective tax rate is an estimated 8 percent," the report said. "To put this in perspective, the top 1 percent of taxpayers pay an average nationwide effective tax rate of just 5.4 percent." US News 3/11/16
The U.S. Social Security Administration estimated that in 2013 undocumented immigrants—and their employers—paid $13 billion in payroll taxes alone for benefits they will never get. They can receive schooling and emergency medical care, but not welfare or food stamps.
Undocumented people are not eligible for welfare. They are here to work and make a better life for themselves and their families.
You can be ANTI-immigrant, but don't say things that aren't true.
The U.S. Social Security Administration estimated that in 2013 undocumented immigrants—and their employers—paid $13 billion in payroll taxes alone for benefits they will never get. They can receive schooling and emergency medical care, but not welfare or food stamps.
Undocumented people are not eligible for welfare. They are here to work and make a better life for themselves and their families.
You can be ANTI-immigrant, but don't say things that aren't true.
Are we supposed to be applauding that Arizona will be majority Latino by 2030, and as a result should be more sympathetic to illegal aliens? Why would anyone wish to participate and celebrate in the marginalization of their own culture and language? What happens when Arizona is 83% Latino? Will be still be celebrating "diversity" at that moment? Say, how would y'all out there like to see Mexico, Egypt, Israel, India, and South Korea become over 50% Caucasian and mainly speaking English by 2030? Yeah, thought not.
7
Start the process to gain status for your family.
2
You know what, I'm a model citizen too. I would quite like to emigrate to the US. Except I can't, because of the strict immigration controls which are rightly in place to protect US jobs, security and so on.
What this article tells me is that if I have a sob story, I get to jump the queue. Doesn't sound like a great premise for an immigration system.
What this article tells me is that if I have a sob story, I get to jump the queue. Doesn't sound like a great premise for an immigration system.
7
Wait a minute. We're not talking about the parents. We're talking about two young women who have been here since age one. Who only know what it is to be an american. And you want to kick them out? To where? Sounds cruel to me. And you must consider that a big part of this problem is because our government has not addressed this issue constructively for over twenty years. How about a little mercy and understanding.
3
We have a rule of law that we are all expected to follow. I don't believe the American people should be made to feel badly if you've broken the law and are here illegally. You have no one to blame but yourselfs for the hardship you brought on yourself and your families.
4
Ok. So these two young women should blame themselves because their parents took them here when they were one year old? We , as a society do not have any responsibility to treat them fairly?
You don't think you are being a little hard hearted?
You don't think you are being a little hard hearted?
2
Thank you for telling the stories of these two beautiful and intelligent girls. How sad it is that their futures will be so different unless something can be done to change the system. They have each other to lean on and support and I hope they both find a way to a brighter future for not only themselves but for their mother and father who only wanted to give their family a better tomorrow
4
I'm amazed at the comments from people who seem not to understand that these two young women were brought here as infants. They had no choice in the life they had, and should they be held accountable for their parents actions? Not that I think their parents were wrong in coming here.
Dalia will make it (unless she gets kicked out, although she'll probably be saddled with huge student loan debt, I hope Williams is giving her a lot of aid), Aracely will have it so much harder.
Why should 'if you work hard, you can make it here' only apply to some people?
Dalia will make it (unless she gets kicked out, although she'll probably be saddled with huge student loan debt, I hope Williams is giving her a lot of aid), Aracely will have it so much harder.
Why should 'if you work hard, you can make it here' only apply to some people?
6
My son-in-law is from Pakistan. His family is still in Pakistan. He came to this country to go to college. He stayed after college with proper documentation to have a great job. Ultimately decided to be naturalized and is now a voting citizen. Worked for the State Department and now has a high level executive position in a major US firm. He accomplished all of this legally and before he turned 30.
The process exists for both of these girls to do the same. Not easy. Not guaranteed. But it's already there. Changing all the rules to accommodate the wave of illegals is unnecessary - even for these two girls. They have about 60 years of life expectancy, which is plenty of time to go through the process. Go back to Mexico. Apply to US colleges. Come legally to become educated. Then stay with good jobs, etc
Some risk - yes. But the process exists without needing to create a shortcut just for the wave of Latino illegal migration.
The process exists for both of these girls to do the same. Not easy. Not guaranteed. But it's already there. Changing all the rules to accommodate the wave of illegals is unnecessary - even for these two girls. They have about 60 years of life expectancy, which is plenty of time to go through the process. Go back to Mexico. Apply to US colleges. Come legally to become educated. Then stay with good jobs, etc
Some risk - yes. But the process exists without needing to create a shortcut just for the wave of Latino illegal migration.
7
Why did you choose to foreigners to profile? They both are breaking the law. Why not profile an actual immigrant from Mexico who has come here legally and faces the prejudice caused by a foreign trespassers. Not all Mexican immigrants are here illegally, nor do they all believed foreign trespassing is appropriate. The premise for your article is based on intended propaganda.
8
By the way when I legally petitioned for my relative to immigrate in 2004 and they are still waiting in line overseas for their visa interview (according to USCIS, they are working on dates in 2001 NOW), other people jump the line to enter illegally and claim victimhood and politicians want them to have a path to CITIZENSHIP, not just residency. If that logic holds then my relatives would have to be granted citizenship from here to overseas and they could become US congressman/congresswoman and so forth. The worst part is that I had to pay $200+ dollars to sponsor which is a non refundable fee; it is almost I am being robbed to pay paul. paul in this case would be processing paperwork for people here illegally so that they can share the dream. NYT should do a story of the millions of people in their respective countries whose petitions have been approved and waiting patiently to come here legally. again if I were to pay for one NYT paper on the stand and take 50 papers and give away them free to others behind me then NYT would file a lawsuit for my behavior that would be illegal under law. NYT, please demonstrate some journalistic integrity.
9
Thank you for these stories which help educate us about the needs for immigration reform. A appreciate what I learned from the young women as well as from the posters.
3
Anyone who has lived here because they were brought here when they were little or they came illegally but looking for bread to eat and feed their families and have worked here for several years should have a chance to become at least legal and I think they should have a path to citizenship. These people work so hard, I have seen how hard they work, they pay taxes (more than Donald Trump), they come here to work and prosper which if they actually find work it means their skills are in fact needed and they are producing either in construction, or cleaning or other businesses. And if there was no immigration for these jobs then it is true that maybe some americans would get those jobs for more salary but it is also true that companies would not be able to hire that many workers because they would be more expensive, also restaurants, etc., so businesses would have higher costs, which means higher prices, less customers, etc. Some people think these workers would automatically be replaced by american citizens with higher wages and the rest would remain the same, which is impossible¡. I think we all benefit with immigration: immigrants get the money to feed their families and give them a better future but american citizens get more services at lower costs, less expensive houses, businesses benefit too from these workers.
6
They should work hard at making Mexico a better place. We have no need of their unskilled labor. All they have to offer is cheap labor (cheap for employers who don't have to pay for the actual costs they impose) and we don't need that. Our immigration laws should be made by the American public based on what is best for our needs.
They have no right to come here after we said no.
They have no right to come here after we said no.
1
Veronica, you live in Texas, try living in NY. Everything you said is not true here. Yet we have record homeless, most from out of state.......we are the highest taxed states more of our dollars go to states like yours where you can buy a McMansion for under a million, not true here or in the burbs of Nassau and Suffolk Counties. We do not have a better life due to illegals. Quite the contrary.
1
Amnesty and citizenship. Period. I don't see what there is to dispute about. I've lived in two states with burgeoning Hispanic populations--North Carolina and Colorado--and though I don't know what it's like along the border, it seems like a cut-and-dried civil rights and decency issue. My ancestors came from Ireland for a better life. What right do I have to deny anyone else the life I've had? The notion of a wall is ludicrous.
7
No amnesty and no citizenship.
What's decent about breaking our laws, pushing down our wages, using our resources and telling us to how to run our society? Everyone wants a better life. Why is it an American responsibility to provide it for all the world's Latinos?
What's decent about breaking our laws, pushing down our wages, using our resources and telling us to how to run our society? Everyone wants a better life. Why is it an American responsibility to provide it for all the world's Latinos?
1
Our country can only be helped by allowing intelligent, hard-working students like this go to college and contribute to society. We should allow these kids to become citizens.
3
This fetishization of the law in the comments is really nauseating. What ever happened to justice? Does anyone is the debate care about what would be truly just? As Martin Luther King wrote from a Birmingham Jail after breaking the law via political protest: "An unjust law is not law at all."
Aracely deserves justice. What she deserves is to be afforded the same opportunities as her sister.
The accident of where we are born should not determine the extent of our opportunities.
Aracely deserves justice. What she deserves is to be afforded the same opportunities as her sister.
The accident of where we are born should not determine the extent of our opportunities.
5
What's unjust about sending Mexican nationals back to Mexico? Are we not allowed to have any immigration laws? Aracely and her parents and sister should go back to Mexico. Her sister should be grateful we educated her and gave her citizenship because her parents broke the law.
2
This is terribly sad for both these young women. What a burden to bear. To know that at any moment your life could be so profoundly altered seems an especially cruel kind of torture. How they've both managed to to come to terms with all of this is remarkable.
2
It really is cruel that their parents did this to them. What a shame that some people put material possessions above the needs of their children to have stable families!
2
Mom and Dad broke the law to get here. They took tax dollars to educate these two without paying in. They took jobs that Americans did not get. And you wonder why Trump is doing so well.
18
ever child in america deserves opportunity, as well as security. Parents are part of that security. How can we be a country that breaks families up?
1
We're not breaking up their families. It's absolutely ridiculous for foreigners to argue that they get to break our laws and then get to say here merely for birthing a child. And then you wonder why we call them anchor babies?
3
Birthright citizenship is a Constitutional right. What you refer to as "anchor babies" are in fact our fellow American citizens. You apparently would rather send the parents back, leaving our fellow citizen to be raised without the support and guidance of their parents. Either that, or you would like to see the entire family sent back, including a fellow citizen.
The basic problem is the double bind of having laws on the books that say the Us controls its immigration, and there are rules to follow to immigrate legally, while not being abe to enforce those laws, and sending the message that the real rules are, "Just get yourselves and your children here, we don,t rally mean it, and while things may be tough for a while, it is worth it, because eventually everything will be ok."
Why not come right out with it and say you favour open borders, that would be more honest than accusing people of racism, marginalisation of brown people, etc.
Why not come right out with it and say you favour open borders, that would be more honest than accusing people of racism, marginalisation of brown people, etc.
16
Finally, those who reject Spanish-speakers' right to American identity also reject the basic facts of US history, and seek to impoverish the bilingual identity that all Americans share, whatever language(s) they speak.
Maybe I can't do much to bring the world in line with my convictions. But I believe it's useful to state them, without qualification, as essential to a moral polity and central to what it means to be - or rather, to aspire to be - genuinely American. If these views were commonly aired, I'd be no more than another member of the self-satisfied self-righteous. But they're not. So, I hope it does a little bit of good for anyone suffering from our unjust restrictions of the fundamental human right to mobility, and/or distorted, racist & xenophobic definitions of our shared identity as US residents and citizens, to know that someone, at least, sees what you've suffered as violating your basic human rights, and the essence of the American ideal.
I wish both interviewees all the best. And if ever I happen to ask if you might perhaps speak Spanish, it's because - being a native speaker of English who learned Spanish in secondary school - I try to speak Spanish every day, and rely on the patience and generosity of my Spanish-speaking fellow Americans to help me retain and improve my knowledge of the language. (In this context, I *really* wish you could say "estado-unidenses" in English.)
(alright, 1 more)
Maybe I can't do much to bring the world in line with my convictions. But I believe it's useful to state them, without qualification, as essential to a moral polity and central to what it means to be - or rather, to aspire to be - genuinely American. If these views were commonly aired, I'd be no more than another member of the self-satisfied self-righteous. But they're not. So, I hope it does a little bit of good for anyone suffering from our unjust restrictions of the fundamental human right to mobility, and/or distorted, racist & xenophobic definitions of our shared identity as US residents and citizens, to know that someone, at least, sees what you've suffered as violating your basic human rights, and the essence of the American ideal.
I wish both interviewees all the best. And if ever I happen to ask if you might perhaps speak Spanish, it's because - being a native speaker of English who learned Spanish in secondary school - I try to speak Spanish every day, and rely on the patience and generosity of my Spanish-speaking fellow Americans to help me retain and improve my knowledge of the language. (In this context, I *really* wish you could say "estado-unidenses" in English.)
(alright, 1 more)
5
I would prefer either of these two young ladies over a former a gold digger Czech or Slovenian communist atheist super model. Or a German draft dodger or Scottish gold digger like Trump's grandfather and mother. Certainly those countries have much better class to offer.
Legal immigration is too slow, costly, fickle, inconsistent and complicated to serve American interests and fullfill American values. We need and deserve the very best from the world. New York is not even sending us it's best with Donald nor Hilllary.
Legal immigration is too slow, costly, fickle, inconsistent and complicated to serve American interests and fullfill American values. We need and deserve the very best from the world. New York is not even sending us it's best with Donald nor Hilllary.
2
Those of us who used to live in Arizona can give you the reality of immigration and jobs. A friend (Caucasion) worked hard to earn the requisite Master's in Counseling in order to counsel at western community colleges (he has extreme extreme back pain and was forced to stand in every single class.) His 4.0 GPA did not gain him a single interview. After hyphenating his name to a "Lopez" he was flooded with invitations to interview. When he arrived he found he was the only non-Hispanic. None of the other potentials appeared to speak English nor to be old enough to have even a Bachelor's, much less a Master's. The interviewing committe refused to even interview him.
That and hundreds of thousands instances of this entrenched racism and hatred of scholarly expertise and experience is what is dooming the systems and schools along the entire southwest border States.
Those of us who who deserve to be judged on our merits, and not by racists, simply packed up and go out of Dodge.
That and hundreds of thousands instances of this entrenched racism and hatred of scholarly expertise and experience is what is dooming the systems and schools along the entire southwest border States.
Those of us who who deserve to be judged on our merits, and not by racists, simply packed up and go out of Dodge.
8
It really is mind boggling. Not just this article and the comments in the comments section here but just reading about it everywhere, hearing people on TV etc., it is numbing how little understanding everyone in general has about the topic. I am not trying to put people down or be condescending but I honestly don't even know where to begin to try to explain, and even if I did try I am not sure people would understand. Some have a very, very basic understanding of the situation. Others have a bit more knowledge but do not have the complete picture. There are large gaps in people's understanding of the situation. Given all of this how are we even going to have a conversation? Even in this article I see so many details left out. Reading this article I am sure leaves many feeling sad for the kids but you can't have a conversation just on those feelings alone. Everyone needs a good understanding of the topic in order to have a conversation. I mean all the details. Everyone needs to know the topic full well. That is missing.
3
The vast majority of comments here are angry but offer no real solution, under some twisted belief that "kick them all out" is a solution. It's a slogan, that's all.
Solution 1) Creating the Department of Homeland Security was a whopping, colossal, expensive, and regrettable mistake. It's an agency out of control, far too pleased with itself and its mission to be effective stewards of public resources and human beings. DHS needs to be dismantled into it's former component parts.
Solution 2) Fix '96. The combined effects of AEDPA and IIRIRA to cut off any path to legalization for large numbers of people, mostly Mexicans, basically out of spite, need to be rolled back. There needs to be a way for people to apply for waivers of inadmissibility. Scratch the surface and most people saying ,"they should go and do things legally" believe that waivers exist. In many cases, they don't.
Solution 3) Pass the DREAM Act. It is the right and decent thing to do.
Solution 1) Creating the Department of Homeland Security was a whopping, colossal, expensive, and regrettable mistake. It's an agency out of control, far too pleased with itself and its mission to be effective stewards of public resources and human beings. DHS needs to be dismantled into it's former component parts.
Solution 2) Fix '96. The combined effects of AEDPA and IIRIRA to cut off any path to legalization for large numbers of people, mostly Mexicans, basically out of spite, need to be rolled back. There needs to be a way for people to apply for waivers of inadmissibility. Scratch the surface and most people saying ,"they should go and do things legally" believe that waivers exist. In many cases, they don't.
Solution 3) Pass the DREAM Act. It is the right and decent thing to do.
1
Consider our views are based neither on anger or spite. Once you appreciate our viewpoint is from a sane, and loving position, though we disagree with you, we can have a rational discussion. Not everyone who disagrees with your view is angry and spiteful. We just seek to achieve a good result following our principles of mutual love and respect, viewed differently than yours.
1
I think their must be a path to citizenship for children brought here. It seems like such an obvious point! Just what are they supposed to do? How can they ever make a middle class living without citizen ship? I think it's shameful, and dangerous, to lock these young immigrants out of full participation in our country. They need to become citizens, and get the education and jobs they earn, and by so doing will enrich our culture and make our country stronger.
1
To correct your post, a path to naturalization is OK, citizenship not so much. Breaking the law should never be rewarded with giving the lawbreaker a voice in the future of the country.
1
To provide any path to citizenship for children creates an incentive for parents to break the law and risk lives to get their children here. We do not adequately appreciate the blessing of being born an American.
1
You could have returned to Mexico at any point up until adulthood and legally emigrated to the USA
Your dad/mom may or may not have had a license or any insurance - what would have happened if he struck someone in an accident and crippled them?
Most studies agree that the average illegal household takes in far more benefits than they pay out in taxes to the american people.
Your dad/mom may or may not have had a license or any insurance - what would have happened if he struck someone in an accident and crippled them?
Most studies agree that the average illegal household takes in far more benefits than they pay out in taxes to the american people.
13
I think you immediately missed the point, by saying "returned to Mexico." These two were brought to the U.S. by their parents when they were young children and were raised here, in the U.S. Where are they going to "return" to in Mexico? What are they going to do there with no ties to the country or the community they end up in?
It would be as if you SteveRR were suddenly told that your parents' or grandparents' documents were not in order when they immigrated to the U.S., so you are getting shipped back to the old country. It is blaming the children for the sins of the parents.
And any reputable study I have ever seen concludes that undocumented immigrants pay far more in taxes than they take out in benefits. In fact, most do not qualify for most benefits. How would they?
Finally, your example about the accident is a good reason in favor of allowing undocumented immigrants to get driver's licenses. This way they are trained in the rules of the road and can buy insurance. That protects everyone.
It would be as if you SteveRR were suddenly told that your parents' or grandparents' documents were not in order when they immigrated to the U.S., so you are getting shipped back to the old country. It is blaming the children for the sins of the parents.
And any reputable study I have ever seen concludes that undocumented immigrants pay far more in taxes than they take out in benefits. In fact, most do not qualify for most benefits. How would they?
Finally, your example about the accident is a good reason in favor of allowing undocumented immigrants to get driver's licenses. This way they are trained in the rules of the road and can buy insurance. That protects everyone.
For those who are talking about the rule of law, "jumping the line," etc., I wonder how many of our parents, or grandparents, or great-grandparents (etc.) passing through Ellis Island during the great waves of immigration, for example, made some sort of false or misleading claim, presented some sort of false or misleading document, or the like, that would not have withstood careful scrutiny by immigration officials. I'm guessing it is a lot, a significant percentage.
America has always been a place where you came to out of desperation, the lure of riches, whatever. Immigrants tried to get a toe-hold and move forward, often against crushing adversity. And the country as a whole and for the most part accepted that and welcomed the immigrant spirit.
America has always been a place where you came to out of desperation, the lure of riches, whatever. Immigrants tried to get a toe-hold and move forward, often against crushing adversity. And the country as a whole and for the most part accepted that and welcomed the immigrant spirit.
1
Both my parents came from nazi Germany after the war ,my father was saved by a kinder train to england(his parents unfortunately were not so lucky,they both perished in aufschwitz),my mom was Hidden in a small town,her mother survived the camps.
Despite being refuges they both required sponsorship by relatives in America.I still have my dads papers.The relative was a cousin he agreed to find my dad a job,a place to live and promised that he would not become a burden on society.He even had to provide proof of a bank acct with money in it.
Why have these rules changed.Now people come and receive all benefits,housing health food.
Despite being refuges they both required sponsorship by relatives in America.I still have my dads papers.The relative was a cousin he agreed to find my dad a job,a place to live and promised that he would not become a burden on society.He even had to provide proof of a bank acct with money in it.
Why have these rules changed.Now people come and receive all benefits,housing health food.
I have already read some eloquent comments. I believe in a spiritual destiny for America. This spiritual destiny includes the vision which is often quoted by our forefathers, and written on the Statue of Liberty, and goes beyond that. But we all have a ways to go before that happens. But ultimately it will happen. All countries are great and weak in their own ways. But the US has a chance to be a guide and mentor of unity of diversity for other countries. I and my family chose to move to Japan instead of remaining in LA, Ca. IF I stayed I would now be a retiring math teacher at Eagle Rock High School. But we decided to move. We make so many decisions based on what we think is best for our children. So many parents understand this way of thinking, doing it for the sake of their kids. The destiny I see for the US is part of what I wish for my children, and other peoples children. I am still an Americcan at heart, and I wouldn't want to change that. I am in my small way working for that destiny to occur, from outside of the US.
You moved to Japan? They have some of the strictest immigration laws of any country. How did you get the paperwork? It certainly wasn't by crossing the border and hoping for an amnesty to happen.
That's what drives me crazy. The US is supposed to ignore their immigration laws while every other country (Mexico comes to mind) enforces their laws. If I decided I wanted to live in Japan or Mexico without the right paperwork they would either jail me or ship me out as soon as they found out. Even after 20 years of living there illegally.
That's what drives me crazy. The US is supposed to ignore their immigration laws while every other country (Mexico comes to mind) enforces their laws. If I decided I wanted to live in Japan or Mexico without the right paperwork they would either jail me or ship me out as soon as they found out. Even after 20 years of living there illegally.
1
America's historical and near religious embrace of commerce and the monomaniacal pursuit of profit is at complete odds with immigration policy. Americans oversimplify the complexity of our current undocumented population. "Criminals should be punished," cultural inclination for retribution demands, as though our economic system so venerated has no part in this play. Exploitation of labor is what this economy seeks, wherever it can get away with it. The undocumented numbers swell because the country grows fatter from their exploitation. The fact is that we all benefit from this situation. Does anyone really believe there is not enough to go around in this richest nation in the world? These two women and any other person in this country who believes in their value as human beings and are truly treated as such will reward us all, whoever you are, wherever you came from and however long ago you and your antecedents came here.
The immigration policies addressing the situations of these two admirable young women must also address the impact of continuing high levels of immigration and ask what this immigration is mainly for. Because at least one of the things that all economists agree immigration is for is keeping wages low, deciding what immigration policy is good for the U.S. includes asking if it should be the nation's policy to keep its workers -- or at least some millions of them -- working as cheaply as possible. It includes a truly honest discussion of the claim that there are jobs Americans won't do, as well as of the impact of high levels of immigration on supplying countries such as Mexico. In regard to Cuba, the Times has editorialized that the special immigration slots for Cubans provide a safety valve for the Communist regime. Likewise, mass immigration from Mexico to the United States helps to keep a corrupt oligarchy in power in Mexico City. The billions of dollars in remittances that the immigrants send back home stabilize a Mexican economy whose oil and gas, agribusiness, and industrial assets are looted from the top down.
The question these stories do not address remains the critical one: how much immigration does the U.S. need?
The question these stories do not address remains the critical one: how much immigration does the U.S. need?
6
There is no reason why we shouldn't repatriate these two foreign nationals. They are here illegally and are utterly smug and contemptuous of our country's immigration laws. Their intellect and courage would be far more valuable and useful in their home countries.
13
I hope all 5 parts of my comment (too long I know) get approved. Someone needs to speak for the other side of these issues. The US used to allow unlimited immigration (at least in numerical terms). That changed because of wartime isolationism and xenophobia, not for economic reasons. Before WWII, passports were a rarity. Mobility is a basic part of human freedom. Etc.
2
I am surprised at the number of comments to "send them back." That may be an option for the parents, but is an unconstitutional punishment for the children who were either born here and are Americans, or were brought here at a young age and know no other country, may not even speak the language well and be at an extreme disadvantage in schools or jobs.
Is it the American way to deport the parents and leave the children without a family? To give an American citizen no choice but to live in another country?
The problem is not as simple as some make it out to be. It will take time to resolve this. When all the options and impacts are carefully considered, amnesty for non-violent offenders is the only humane option. Not citizenship, just permanent residence without the right to vote. So long as they remain law abiding.
Is it the American way to deport the parents and leave the children without a family? To give an American citizen no choice but to live in another country?
The problem is not as simple as some make it out to be. It will take time to resolve this. When all the options and impacts are carefully considered, amnesty for non-violent offenders is the only humane option. Not citizenship, just permanent residence without the right to vote. So long as they remain law abiding.
4
I just want to say to both women interviewed, but especially Aracely: your stories of isolation, fear, and missed opportunities are dreadful. No-one should have to live like this. The EU enshrined free movement of labor (people), along with capital (money), among its four central freedoms. NAFTA opened our countries' borders to goods and capital - but not to people. This has greatly worsened what had long been a horrifically unjust system.
Personally, I advocate a return to an open immigration policy, like that of the turn of the 20th century - except without racist provisions such as the Chinese Exclusion Act. I also support immediate amnesty for all undocumented people living in the US, and an accelerated, low-cost path to citizenship for anyone who wants to be my fellow American - including new immigrants and undocumented residents. Of course, there need to be provisions for dealing with individuals who have committed serious crimes either before coming to the US or in this country. Eliminating all criminal penalties for drug use, possession, and sales would help a lot to make this affordable - and big-time dealers generally also launder money, evade taxes, violate gun-control laws, and commit or conspire in violent crime, so there'd be no need to let those who are truly dangerous go free.
Finally, my American identity includes both English and Spanish as my country's native languages.
(There's more, hopefully I can post it in addl comments.)
Personally, I advocate a return to an open immigration policy, like that of the turn of the 20th century - except without racist provisions such as the Chinese Exclusion Act. I also support immediate amnesty for all undocumented people living in the US, and an accelerated, low-cost path to citizenship for anyone who wants to be my fellow American - including new immigrants and undocumented residents. Of course, there need to be provisions for dealing with individuals who have committed serious crimes either before coming to the US or in this country. Eliminating all criminal penalties for drug use, possession, and sales would help a lot to make this affordable - and big-time dealers generally also launder money, evade taxes, violate gun-control laws, and commit or conspire in violent crime, so there'd be no need to let those who are truly dangerous go free.
Finally, my American identity includes both English and Spanish as my country's native languages.
(There's more, hopefully I can post it in addl comments.)
2
It would be true to say every single human being on earth deserves to have every opportunity modern life can offer.
Unfortunately, we can't vouchsafe that to everyone.
I will repeat until this comments section closes--our nation is drowning in the needs of citizens. Black and Native American children are always last. Every wave of illegal immigrants needing a spectrum of services pushes those to whom we have the highest obligation back to the back of the line again.
When "sanctuary city" means a place where every American-born child has the highest opportunities to thrive, we can turn our attention to illegal immigrants and the problems they bring with them.
Unfortunately, we can't vouchsafe that to everyone.
I will repeat until this comments section closes--our nation is drowning in the needs of citizens. Black and Native American children are always last. Every wave of illegal immigrants needing a spectrum of services pushes those to whom we have the highest obligation back to the back of the line again.
When "sanctuary city" means a place where every American-born child has the highest opportunities to thrive, we can turn our attention to illegal immigrants and the problems they bring with them.
14
I feel so bad for these two young woman. To me they are as American as I am even though I am not Hispanic and was born In The USA as both of my parents were. They were brought here as children with really no solid understanding of legal or illegal. They identify with our country and it is morally indefensible to discriminate against them. I wish them the best of luck. I hope they NEVER stop trying to improve their lives and the lives of their loved ones. I wish there was something I could do for them besides voting.
2
Deport the illegal alien parents and the children that they dragged into their ill-considered scheme to trespass into our country, flout our laws, and steal services intended for American citizens and those lawfully present in our country. The parents will learn nothing from being deported -- especially when illegal alien advocates tell them that THEY are the victims -- but their children will learn a valuable life lesson: cheaters never prosper.
8
The vicious cycle of importing cheap labor must end. It is unfair in so many ways. Of course, these are not bad people. Of course, they are young with dreams and their families and they have known poverty, but so have so many of our own citizens. We do not have enough resources for Americans in need. What is really irritating is that I do feel sorry for these girls, but as smart as they are there is a tone of entitlement in both of their stories which is grating. It is not their parent's faults for having broken the law, it is the racism that holds them back. There is not the least bit of shame for having broken the law only ingratitude. Immigration laws must be followed. I am tired of hearing that illegal immigrants do the jobs that no one else wants to do. Of course they do because most of them send their money back home where it has way more purchasing power than it has here. Of course they do, because they can be hired so cheaply while American citizens would actually have to be paid a living wage. And of course they do because what else are they going to do with little knowledge of English and lack of skills? Let's help Mexico and other central American countries get their houses in order and let's offer fair wages for low skilled labor to our own citizens.
29
Reality check: Undocumented workers take jobs that employers legally couldn't offer to citizens. No benefits, low wages and poor working conditions. That is why produce is so cheap. So attack the employers, not the cheap labor.
What do you thing NAFTA was all about? Trying to bring employment opportunities to other countries.
Many undocumented workers speak English. They make the effort to learn another language. Which is more than can be said for many Americans.
What do you thing NAFTA was all about? Trying to bring employment opportunities to other countries.
Many undocumented workers speak English. They make the effort to learn another language. Which is more than can be said for many Americans.
6
@ Rita-Your argument only makes the case against illegal immigration. If these jobs are deplorable working conditions, they should not be offered to anyone, including illegal immigrants. We need to deport illegal immigrants and prosecute miscreant employers so we have fair, safe and strong working conditions for workers in the United States.
10
Reality check: Shouldn't we just nullify our borders and let anyone in who wants to come in without restriction? Undoubtedly there will be worthwhile ones and not so worthwhile ones, but that is true of citizens as well, so what's the difference? I understand that Rita is willing to give up her job, assuming she has one, or her husband's or partner's job (assuming they have one) to any illegal immigrant who wants it. Right, Rita?
8
First of all- your Mother and Father broke the law. It is wrong what they did and the rest of America should not have to accommodate their law breaking. Second- you seem to be a very lovely person with so much going for you. But i feel as if you act like a victim and feel you are persecuted when it appears as if you have gotten a lot of good breaks. Stop listening to all the crazy negative people and studying every wrong done to mankind. Rise above it all and contribute positivity to the world. The last thing the world needs is another "poor me" persona. I do hope your parents can get citizenship but I know a lot of people have been in like be for years and is it fair that your parents get to jump ahead???
25
I can't help but comment.
I am the son of an immigrant and the grandson of two WWI refugees one to Australia and one to the US. I now live in Tucson. Everyday I see the contributions made by immigrants and refugees to our community in both commerce and in civil society. (the Chobani story is firmly linked to this comment - as there is hysteria linked to both immigrants and refugees)
The opportunity to contribute and participate needs to be extended to these women - who are in this country through no fault of their own. It is our loss if they are denied.
The Dreamer Act is a simple fix and then maybe we can have an adult conversation about the rest, though I think the later is not possible as long as we focus on walls and dwell on nonsensical stereotypes and other lies.
I am the son of an immigrant and the grandson of two WWI refugees one to Australia and one to the US. I now live in Tucson. Everyday I see the contributions made by immigrants and refugees to our community in both commerce and in civil society. (the Chobani story is firmly linked to this comment - as there is hysteria linked to both immigrants and refugees)
The opportunity to contribute and participate needs to be extended to these women - who are in this country through no fault of their own. It is our loss if they are denied.
The Dreamer Act is a simple fix and then maybe we can have an adult conversation about the rest, though I think the later is not possible as long as we focus on walls and dwell on nonsensical stereotypes and other lies.
3
The argument that illegal immigrants only take the jobs Americans don't want is ridiculous and false because they aren't coming here to stay in those jobs permanently. They are coming for education, opportunity, and to move up in the ranks like American citizens. Maybe the first generation won't be able to take jobs Americans want and fight for, but their children certainly will (and already are). I do believe immigrants are the backbone of this country. But it has to be regulated.
26
American-born children of immigrants aren't immigrants. They're US citizens. Why shouldn't they move up the ladder?
7
You're confusing a whole lot of things. Immigrants can become citizens if they come here legally. American born children of illegal immigrants are also citizens, but many argue that they should not be because their parents have broken the law. This is why some Americans are so bitter about these laws- they seem to give an unfair advantage to people who have not played fairly by the rules.
7
"He thinks so badly of us. "
What one can say it that you are here illegally and your parents broke the law. A lot of people, including those who waited their turn to enter this country don't think too highly of you. Your actions, your consequences.
What one can say it that you are here illegally and your parents broke the law. A lot of people, including those who waited their turn to enter this country don't think too highly of you. Your actions, your consequences.
41
I came here legally and think extremely highly of her. Please don't put words in my mouth. I had this privilege because my parents had the resources to do so. It is profoundly unfair that this is what separates me from others who don't have the same access. Why am I any better than them? They worked just as hard as me, have the same hopes and aspirations, and love this country just as much. Why be so arbitrary with our laws and so uncompassionate in allowing those who are victims of their circumstances and American's greed? They're lured here by the prospect of a better life, exploited, and now chewed out? Have a heart.
I think the real point of these "sob stories," as other commenters are calling them, is that these people who are not legal citizens but have lived here their entire lives actually are Americans, too.
There is no country that they can go back to because this is their country, this is where they were raised, where they went to school, where they made friends and work and pay taxes just like the rest of us.
They are as American as anyone else in this country. Just because they are American in a way you might not recognize doesn't make you more American than an illegal immigrant who has spent their whole life here.
The US was built by immigrants long before anyone was called "illegal," - it is part of the integral structure and attitude of our society, and immigration of all kinds is what has shaped us and made us one of the most powerful countries in the world. The America that certain citizens don't want to share is nothing that they have built by themselves. Would you call the Chinese railroad workers who were shipped here or the Africans who were enslaved to pick our cotton and tobacco “illegal immigrants”? We practically had to drag people here for hundreds of years and now that desperate people are coming by themselves it is suddenly an issue.
I would argue it is un-American to say that a group of people does not deserve to be here because ultimately that kind of opinion comes from greed and fear, and a deep lack of understanding about our history.
There is no country that they can go back to because this is their country, this is where they were raised, where they went to school, where they made friends and work and pay taxes just like the rest of us.
They are as American as anyone else in this country. Just because they are American in a way you might not recognize doesn't make you more American than an illegal immigrant who has spent their whole life here.
The US was built by immigrants long before anyone was called "illegal," - it is part of the integral structure and attitude of our society, and immigration of all kinds is what has shaped us and made us one of the most powerful countries in the world. The America that certain citizens don't want to share is nothing that they have built by themselves. Would you call the Chinese railroad workers who were shipped here or the Africans who were enslaved to pick our cotton and tobacco “illegal immigrants”? We practically had to drag people here for hundreds of years and now that desperate people are coming by themselves it is suddenly an issue.
I would argue it is un-American to say that a group of people does not deserve to be here because ultimately that kind of opinion comes from greed and fear, and a deep lack of understanding about our history.
29
Living in America does not make you American. Becoming a citizen is What makes you an American. Period. I would argue, coming from a deep understanding of our history, that there are immigration laws for a reason. Period. If you don't understand why perhaps more research. Maybe a civics class. What is happening in California, Arizona and New Mexico is that they are just more and more extensions of Mexico, not America. Americans integrate. Illegal aliens don't. Its a serious problem.
1
This debate has gone on long enough. I get it I get it I get it. There are people who have broken our rules and entered our country without documentation, without papers. All of this is true. Demand that we all say they "entered illegally" if you need to, but I won't marginalize and dehumanize these people. They come from poverty in Mexico and poverty and violence in Central America, and so much of that violence was sewn by our country's policies and actions. What we mustn't do -- what we cannot do, what it is simply inhumane to do -- is hold children accountable for their parents' decisions. Any child or minor brought into the United States by her/his parents without documents should receive automatic and immediate amnesty and a reasonable path toward official residency and, if desired, citizenship. These children, many of whom are now adults with families of their own, are not responsible for the actions of their parents and to treat them as criminals is an injustice. My heart aches for both Aracely and Dalia and their family, but I'm especially sad for Aracely who, by virtue of the geographic birthplace lottery, is denied the opportunities and life her sister has. There are hundreds of thousands of Aracelys out there, and we must not continue punishing them for a "crime" their parents committed.
23
To fail to enforce our laws can only propagate the problem to current generations who will send out inaction as an invitation to risk all to bring their children here.
1
As the grandson of Italian immigrants, I am very proud of these two young women who are struggling so honorably for their slice of the American pie. They are hardworking, contributing members of society, faced with roadblocks put in place by misguided politicians. My city, Scranton, is home to an ever rising population of Hispanic residents. They are overwhelmingly hardworking and family/community-oriented people. As a nation, our communities are strengthened by diversity. The recent arrivals come with an energy and sense of urgency to succeed. Too many Americans have become complacent and negative in their outlook. But, the new arrivals still believe in the American dream that can lift up themselves and future generations of their family! Why would we want to bar their way to college? Why not harness their idealism and energy to create a better tomorrow for all of us? We need to provide amnesty to the immigrants already here while formulating a rational policy moving forward. We cannot provide for the entire world. But, we do have a solemn duty as Americans to make room for those fleeing tyranny and oppression. In fact, emigration from Mexico has decreased over the last few years (as deportations have steadily risen). Hispanics are paying taxes, serving in the military and enriching us with their culture and food. They, and other immigrants from different parts of the world, are helping to write the next great chapter in American history. And how wonderful is that?!
23
Really? You think all Hispanic immigrants are illegal? That emphasizes the problem with not enforcing our laws. Legal immigrants bear the burden of being suspect with the foreign trespassing, i.e., criminals.
1
We have a big problem with illegal immigrants on Long Island. Brentwood has been destroyed by gangs, dominated by Latinos - does that mean all people of Latino extraction are murderers, drug dealers, and thieves? No. It does mean that one ethnic group dominates the gangs that are killing kids in Brentwood, and terrorizing other areas. A couple moved to our block from Brentwood - and we all found gang graffiti on their house and fence recently, they were followed and "marked." Threats are everywhere. I was assaulted by a suspected female gang affiliate at a local donut shop, because she did not like the way I knocked on the restroom door. The responding cop after the assault did nothing - the cops' homes are also being marked by the gangs, more threats. Many of the gang members are illegal immigrants, drawn to Long Island by those who pretend that illegal immigration is just good people looking for ways out of poverty. Not always - some are criminals looking for new territory. If you want to see the truly negative sides of illegal immigration, look at what is going on on Long Island. We have high rates of attacks, threats, and road accidents caused by those with no license. The New York Times ignores the threats and killings by illegal immigrants just 50 miles away from Eighth Avenue - no need to look at Arizona. Just come talk to us on Long Island. There's lots to report.
40
Is this Paul Krugman's or Nicholas Kristof's neighborhood? There's the answer as to why it's ignored.
31
Lucky I have seen and read the headlines, I think at last count 6 kids were murdered in Brentwood and I believe police think they are all gang related. Bad news.
To Jp - No I don't think Kristof and his ilk even know where Brentwood or Wyandanch is. Shocking.
To Jp - No I don't think Kristof and his ilk even know where Brentwood or Wyandanch is. Shocking.
1
Kind of amazing the lack of empathy and general myopia here. I teach at the high school mentioned in the article here in Phoenix. Our immigration laws are an abysmal failure of epic proportions. To say "enter legally" lacks a basic humanity and completely subjugates Latinos as if they are another species. Somehow everyone forgets that people were allowed to come here just wanting a better life. I'm not saying we should not have open borders, but the labrythine insanity we have now is ridiculous. Some of my undocumented students are the best people I have ever encountered in my entire life. They escaped unimaginable horrors. They have a right to fight for their life. NAFTA, in case everyone's forgotten, destroyed Mexican farmers in the 90s. WE caused the mass influx of people here. Stop with the righteous indignation. We can have a sensible worker VISA plan. To say, "you broke the law" as if trying to save your life is a criminal act represents a deep schism with history and American values. When did we give up on ourselves so much that we have no room for people who need our help? When did our egos become so territorial and fragile? Boundaries are good, but there are reasonable ways to integrate people. For the record, these people are incredible human beings. If you were in their shoes, you would have done the same thing. Being born in a different country shouldn't be a death sentence.
97
Diana, in case you've forgotten, NAFTA destroyed AMERICAN factory workers when good-paying factory jobs were moved to Mexico. That's why Flint, Detroit, and other Rust Belt cities hit the skids.
I've lived and worked overseas in the Middle East. My students there were every bit as bright as yours. What makes YOURS so "special" that they get to break the laws of this country and be rewarded for it because they can cross a land border? My students have to learn English, get accepted into school here, then pay not only immigration fees but foreign student tuition.
By the way, Mexico is one of the richest countries in the world, #15 in GDP, and well able to look after its own. Its problems are not that it lacks wealth, but that, due to corruption, that wealth is distributed highly unevenly. That's up to Mexicans to fix, not us.
I've lived and worked overseas in the Middle East. My students there were every bit as bright as yours. What makes YOURS so "special" that they get to break the laws of this country and be rewarded for it because they can cross a land border? My students have to learn English, get accepted into school here, then pay not only immigration fees but foreign student tuition.
By the way, Mexico is one of the richest countries in the world, #15 in GDP, and well able to look after its own. Its problems are not that it lacks wealth, but that, due to corruption, that wealth is distributed highly unevenly. That's up to Mexicans to fix, not us.
28
Honestly, I'm tired of the apologetic theme people like yourself give off to the people who try to cheat the system. Yes, we get it. The second generation is not to blame, not at all I would do all in my power to help them. But the parents I have my sympathy for. Mexico has an even stricter immigration law but their own politicians and news outlets don't focus on that because they worry about America much more. We try to abide by the law and enforce? Nooooo all of Mexico and everywhere else in Central America gets on the train to blame us for not having hearts. It get's to the point of not being able to feel empathy or sympathy for them anymore and all of it is replaced by annoyance and bitterness disgust.
14
"Our immigration laws are an abysmal failure of epic proportions. "
No, it's that they are not being enforced.
"To say "enter legally" lacks a basic humanity and completely subjugates Latinos as if they are another species. "
No, it means many immigrants followed the rules. Unless you're saying there's something intrinsically mutually exclusive between "Latinos" and "legally".
"NAFTA, in case everyone's forgotten, destroyed Mexican farmers in the 90s. WE caused the mass influx of people here. "
Then Mexico should abrogate the treaty. If you want to talk about NAFTA talk to Bill, he signed it into law in 1993. He even sent Al Gore to debate Ross Perot in favor of it on national television, Larry King Live.
"When did our egos become so territorial and fragile?"
Maybe your ego, but we are talking about following the rules like many other immigrants have.
No, it's that they are not being enforced.
"To say "enter legally" lacks a basic humanity and completely subjugates Latinos as if they are another species. "
No, it means many immigrants followed the rules. Unless you're saying there's something intrinsically mutually exclusive between "Latinos" and "legally".
"NAFTA, in case everyone's forgotten, destroyed Mexican farmers in the 90s. WE caused the mass influx of people here. "
Then Mexico should abrogate the treaty. If you want to talk about NAFTA talk to Bill, he signed it into law in 1993. He even sent Al Gore to debate Ross Perot in favor of it on national television, Larry King Live.
"When did our egos become so territorial and fragile?"
Maybe your ego, but we are talking about following the rules like many other immigrants have.
19
I feel for both girls, but the fact is their parents made the choice to come here illegally. Just because these girls are "gifted" does not mean the laws should not be applied to them.
48
Exactly. How do we reward them with amnesty and not reward the parents who, as adults, chose to break our laws AND who brought their kids here illegally as well? If we had citizen parents who forced their kids to break the law, we'd have them in jail for child neglect. As it is, amnesty for the kids would mean they could sponsor their parents for legal status, and that would encourage even more to parents to break the law. It would also create de facto "birthright citizenship" for any child anywhere in the world if they could only get here before, say, age 16.
20
The whole world needs gifted people, the whole world needs everybody to be the best they can. We all benefit when ever someone is able to realize their full potential. When a law prevents someone living in this country from realizing their full potential, the law damages both them and us.
10
I think this is such a sad story. I wish we could change the way immigration is
dealt with. and fast! It is tragic for a talented young person to be held back because of money issues, no matter their background! Everyone should have a chance.
dealt with. and fast! It is tragic for a talented young person to be held back because of money issues, no matter their background! Everyone should have a chance.
2
Americans have such an antiquated and politicized notion of immigration. It's not about how you got in here - there will always be loopholes and if we are to punish people than we should begin by punishing our grandparents for overstaying and never becoming truly naturalized citizens. It's about what you do here and what you do for your [adopted] country.
7
These are smart thoughtful young women who are a credit to their families and who deserve the chance to become legal immigrants in the US. I can't help but contrast them with the dim witted woman who was interviewed on NPR last night. She was 69 years old, born in the US, had never voted once in her lifetime and was going to vote for Trump because she thought he was somehow "like her." She also believed that all men talked like Trump. Contrast this woman who has thrown away her vote throughout her lifetime and wallowed in her ignorance throughout her interview with these young women.
10
Until age 18 1/2, each of these young women could have returned to Mexico without facing a bar to re-entry and applied for student visas to come here LEGALLY.
Also, please don't think these young women are "typical" of illegal aliens. Gang bangers and high school drop outs are just as "typical" (Hispanics have the highest rates of dropping out of both high school and college.)
Also, please don't think these young women are "typical" of illegal aliens. Gang bangers and high school drop outs are just as "typical" (Hispanics have the highest rates of dropping out of both high school and college.)
36
I really admire this young woman. She is the kind of American we can be so proud of!
5
When I was a kid there was a weekly cartoon wherein a villain would steal all of some common thing like water, sugar, the color yellow or ... whatever, and hoard it away for some nefarious reason. Our noble hero would find the villain and thwart him, after first explaining what would happen it that one thing truly disappeared from the earth.
If there wasn't such an awful human price to pay, it'd be comic to see undocumented immigrants disappear from America, via Trump's Deportation Force.
I don't know about where you live, but here in California, the crops that feed 70 % of you would die unharvested, never to be planted again. There'd be no one to cook or wash dishes in our restaurants, so that industry would fold. The middle class and wealthy would have to clean their own houses, and there'd be no one to nanny their children. Our hospitals would be filthy and no bed sheets would ever get changed. Our nursing homes and long term care facilities would suffer the same fate, and residents' butts would remain unwiped. Half the construction labor would disappear overnight. Gardens would grow wild, trees would become quite dangerous due to lack of pruning. Streets wouldn't get paved and garbage would pile up by the curb.
There isn't enough time or room to go further. The current immigration situation serves a capitalist system quite well. Be careful what you wish for, folks.
If there wasn't such an awful human price to pay, it'd be comic to see undocumented immigrants disappear from America, via Trump's Deportation Force.
I don't know about where you live, but here in California, the crops that feed 70 % of you would die unharvested, never to be planted again. There'd be no one to cook or wash dishes in our restaurants, so that industry would fold. The middle class and wealthy would have to clean their own houses, and there'd be no one to nanny their children. Our hospitals would be filthy and no bed sheets would ever get changed. Our nursing homes and long term care facilities would suffer the same fate, and residents' butts would remain unwiped. Half the construction labor would disappear overnight. Gardens would grow wild, trees would become quite dangerous due to lack of pruning. Streets wouldn't get paved and garbage would pile up by the curb.
There isn't enough time or room to go further. The current immigration situation serves a capitalist system quite well. Be careful what you wish for, folks.
12
What do you think would happen if those illegal aliens you mention doing all those "dirty jobs" you claim Americans won't do AT THE (LOW) WAGES offered were legalized? Do you really think that they would STAY doing those low wage jobs, anymore than these young women want to?
14
There's a movie, about ten years old, that describes the situation. It's called "A Day Without a Mexican," and it quite hilariously deals with the cost of having no illegal immigrants to do the things you discuss.
6
So before we had an influx of illegals who did all of the jobs you mentioned?
23
This country is full of young people--American citizens--in the most dreadful circumstances because of the failures of their parents, and among whom there are undoubtedly many rough diamonds who, with the caring investment of a compassionate society, could escape generations of poverty, abuse, teenage childbearing and substance abuse and contribute to the general welfare.
How many of them might have had their lives transformed by a place at Williams?
In this lovely area where I live, I see teenage parents everywhere, pushing strollers with babies who deserve to be rescued from what likely awaits them.
But they just aren't an important constituency to anyone.
I came from an abusive, alcoholic home in NY; made some bad choices very early in my life, and only because a colleague at a job I was barely qualified for saw something in me, and cultivated it, I was put on a better road.
All this handwringing over some young people who, regardless of their intrinsic merits as human beings, are taking the places of others more deserving of our society's bounty. Hypocrisy much?
How many of them might have had their lives transformed by a place at Williams?
In this lovely area where I live, I see teenage parents everywhere, pushing strollers with babies who deserve to be rescued from what likely awaits them.
But they just aren't an important constituency to anyone.
I came from an abusive, alcoholic home in NY; made some bad choices very early in my life, and only because a colleague at a job I was barely qualified for saw something in me, and cultivated it, I was put on a better road.
All this handwringing over some young people who, regardless of their intrinsic merits as human beings, are taking the places of others more deserving of our society's bounty. Hypocrisy much?
21
It is fantasy, and shameful, to believe that these young women take the place of more deserving Americans. Our country's opportunities are not finite and our human capital is what makes this country the ingenuity locus of the world. Nurture, as opposed to blame, the potential these young ladies could bring to our Great Society. ¡Viva, América!
11
Of course they take someone else's place. Every admission means someone else was denied that chance. Every apt. lived in means someone else can't live there.
Of course resources are finite. The child of illegal immigrants, who needs a variety of special services to succeed in school, drains the budget of the school district meaning many other children will suffer.
This is reality, which is often not a pretty place to live in.
Of course resources are finite. The child of illegal immigrants, who needs a variety of special services to succeed in school, drains the budget of the school district meaning many other children will suffer.
This is reality, which is often not a pretty place to live in.
35
The fallacy of your reply is that you focus on resources. I argued that opportunities are not finite. Success begets success. When our economy grows as a result of opportunities explored and realized, more resources may become available. When we spend stop spending massively on military power yet stop skimping on investing in our children, maybe you can talk to us about how children of illegal immigrants need special services which "drain the budget of the school district." You argue a false association.
1
My great grandparents immigrated from Germany and Eastern Europe with little or no education. My grandparents and parents never finished high school so that they could earn money to support the family. I was the first generation of my family to go to college. These women should have the opportunities I had or wish I had. 1) Clear immigration status. My great grandparents came through Ellis Island and you’re nuts if you think they were vetted. Then we needed young people to do the work and demographers say that with an aging white population we still do. We need young people paying into social security to keep the system solvent. Etc. 2) Cheap state university tuition supported by state taxes. I could not have gone to college or graduate school without government support. Our country cannot succeed economically without an educated population. It’s like investment in infrastructure. Get it? 3) Acceptance as Americans and not being seen as an inferior Latino minority. I come from a hated minority group. My family just wanted to be American. My grandparent’s generation fought in WWI. My parent’s generation in WWII. We all worked hard. We are honest and law abiding. Being an American is not defined ethnically or racially. You become an American by coming here and embracing the American way of life. That goes for everyone, not just people who came here a century or two ago. That goes for these two women.
11
If your grandparents came through Ellis Island they were indeed "vetted". They showed they were healthy (there's a large clinic there where health checks were performed) and self-supporting (had to have money, I believe, $30). And for the record, some 30% of the immigrants who came during the Great Wave of immigration WENT HOME because they couldn't make it here. You see, we didn't have welfare and other taxpayer-provided services that even illegal aliens such as these young women get.
25
Welfare was available in the 30's but you had to pay it back. Unlike today where homegrown citizens have been on it for generations with no consequence.
People come to this country legally are well off in their own country. People entering into this country illegally from southern borders are poor in their own country. So, they cannot enter on student visas or work visas or any other visas that are out there. But, We cannot formulate national policies based on heart breaking stories, because there are plenty of such stories from all over the world. Just think about the children in Aleppo, Syria. First and foremost, we need to seal the borders. Then, we can think about how we can transition these folks into citizenship. Otherwise, it make no sense to discuss the issue of illegal immigrants, unless we legalize the illegals automatically as reward for making the long and tough journey to reach the land of promise as our ancestors did.
9
These are two very sympathetic cases, but to consider them "Arizona's Scarred Generation" or victims of this country's policies is misplaced. Their parents made a decision to enter the U.S. illegally, a decision with obvious consequences, and these two young women are saddled with the consequences of that decision. While it's certainly not convenient for either family, would it be too much to ask that they return to Mexico and then apply for legal entry and residency like we do everyone else?
77
Did your ancestors enter the USA with "documentation?" Mine were stolen from West African and then forced into slavery until, 100s of years later, we were supposedly recognized as citizens. So I never got here to the US "legally." White settlers arrived to the USA with no "documentation" for citizenship and this country was built on this legacy of extermination of Native Americans as well as the enslaved labor of my ancestors. I am certain her family made this "decision" because they would never have any opportunities in Mexico to ensure a future and much of the economic displacement of Mexicans has to do with NAFTA which economically displaced thousands of Mexicans. So the US has a responsibility to much of Latin America for its instability since at least the 1980s. Why have we become such a heartless nation especially to young people who are hard working and hold the future of this country and the world?
4
Would it be too much too ask? Yes! These kids didn't ask to come here and it's the only country they've ever known! How can you miss that?
My own grandparents might not have come here legally but do you want me to go to Ireland and wait until America invites me back? I don't know anybody there. Where would I go? How would I support myself?
It's a ridiculous question, really, made sillier by the double standard. Do you want to ask generations of Chinese Americans whose forebears came here to build the railroads to go to China? Do you want to ask generations of Eastern Europeans whose forebears were brought over to work as miners? For God's sake, most of the African American population are descended from slaves. Do you consider that "legal entry?"
What makes a citizen? If you were brought here by your parents when you were an infant and now, as an adult, are a hard-working, law-abiding person, how does anyone have the right to kick you out? This "national identity" cr*p has gone too far. We're all the same, despite the artificially drawn borders.
My own grandparents might not have come here legally but do you want me to go to Ireland and wait until America invites me back? I don't know anybody there. Where would I go? How would I support myself?
It's a ridiculous question, really, made sillier by the double standard. Do you want to ask generations of Chinese Americans whose forebears came here to build the railroads to go to China? Do you want to ask generations of Eastern Europeans whose forebears were brought over to work as miners? For God's sake, most of the African American population are descended from slaves. Do you consider that "legal entry?"
What makes a citizen? If you were brought here by your parents when you were an infant and now, as an adult, are a hard-working, law-abiding person, how does anyone have the right to kick you out? This "national identity" cr*p has gone too far. We're all the same, despite the artificially drawn borders.
8
"White settlers arrived to the USA with no "documentation" for citizenship and this country was built on this legacy of extermination of Native Americans as well as the enslaved labor of my ancestors."
If you want to prosecute all of those responsible for the genocide you will have to include Mexico City, as well as Spain, Portugal, England, France and Holland. But the Spanish and Portuguese would be first in line.
If you want to prosecute all of those responsible for the genocide you will have to include Mexico City, as well as Spain, Portugal, England, France and Holland. But the Spanish and Portuguese would be first in line.
10
Many, if not most, of the critical commenters almost assuredly have ancestors who entered this country illegally, occupied territory illegally, or settled in different regions illegally-- living on land seized illegally from Spaniards and Native Americans, violating federal treaties with Native Americans by living in land they had no right to, or breaking immigration laws -- which, incidentally, were often steeped in racism with arbitrary quotas favoring certain ethnicities and races-- one could be a perfectly legal immigrant one year and not the next.
But the point is, go back far enough, and many people will find someone or many in their family tree who are just as "illegal" or even more so than these undocumented children are! After all, the illegal settling on land that wasn't European white was done by adults-- these children were brought here by parents.
Compassion and equitable treatment -- the same as should be given to those born in the U.S. should be the hallmark of policies going forward.
But the point is, go back far enough, and many people will find someone or many in their family tree who are just as "illegal" or even more so than these undocumented children are! After all, the illegal settling on land that wasn't European white was done by adults-- these children were brought here by parents.
Compassion and equitable treatment -- the same as should be given to those born in the U.S. should be the hallmark of policies going forward.
11
"Equitable treatment"? So, how is rewarding these young women for their parents' law breaking "equitable treatment" for the literal millions of would-be immigrants waiting to come legally?
16
It would be better if the educational support went to a Native American young woman or man instead. There are many deserving students here who don't have the choice of walking into another country and asking for free stuff. Enough.
50
It is totally unfair that these two young ladies cannot live and work without fear of arrest and deportation. Good luck to both of them.
6
If someone is in this country illegally, they *should* be in fear of arrest and deportation. No country on Earth allows uncontrolled immigration from whomever shows up at the border.
The unfairness here is to American citizens, permanent residents, and those who go through the legal immigration process.
The unfairness here is to American citizens, permanent residents, and those who go through the legal immigration process.
23
It's totally unfair that they should be able to work here at all, when there are literally millions of would-be immigrants applying to come legally who have wait in line in their home countries. Who don't get to work here or go to school here at our expense, or get other benefits.
21
The US owes a lot to most illegal immigrants. They come here and work very hard. They do work mostly that we don't want to do, like farm work, cleaning, taking care of our kids. Their contribution to the CA economy is huge! We've had amnesties before and why not again? Especially for folks who have lived here for a long time being productive people. The US is mostly a very rich country and Mexico is still quite poor. We need to help the less fortunate. The US has caused many problems in Mexico, from the demand for drugs to pretty-much-stealing half of its country in 1850s. I believe we have a special relationship with Mexico and need to help its people both in the US and in Mexico. It's very sad and shameful that these two talented, young women have to live in the shadows for so long.
5
The 1986 amnesty was promised to us as the ONLY ONE because our laws were going to be enforced.
Moreover, Mexico is one of the RICHEST countries in the world, #15 in GDP. It has lots of poor people because its gov't is corrupt. It's up to MEXICANS to fix that, not us.
Moreover, Mexico is one of the RICHEST countries in the world, #15 in GDP. It has lots of poor people because its gov't is corrupt. It's up to MEXICANS to fix that, not us.
24
Illegal immigration has put us in a situation where you have to make decisions that are not perfect. And the decisions we make tell us what kind of country we want to be.
With 11 million illegal immigrants you can go the police state route and try to deport them all, and in the process likely violate the civil rights of millions of others who happen to look like the stereotypical illegal immigrant or live near them.
A better, but imperfect alternative is to legalize all those who have been here for many years after they pay back taxes and penalties and learn English. Do this while implementing a mandatory system for employers to check for legal status when hiring, which should remove most incentives for additional immigration.
Keep in mind that many of these immigrants came from very difficult situations in their countries, and in most cases had no legal path to immigrate to the US. While their arrival may not have been legal, it's hard to call it unethical. Comparing their situation to that of immigrants 100 years ago when the path was open and there was no line (average immigrants waited 2 to 5 hours to be processed at Ellis Island), or to that of skilled workers who have good jobs in their home countries and want to migrate to even better jobs here is unfair.
BTW, rumor is one of my ancestors arrived in America as a stowaway. Should I be heading back to Europe?
With 11 million illegal immigrants you can go the police state route and try to deport them all, and in the process likely violate the civil rights of millions of others who happen to look like the stereotypical illegal immigrant or live near them.
A better, but imperfect alternative is to legalize all those who have been here for many years after they pay back taxes and penalties and learn English. Do this while implementing a mandatory system for employers to check for legal status when hiring, which should remove most incentives for additional immigration.
Keep in mind that many of these immigrants came from very difficult situations in their countries, and in most cases had no legal path to immigrate to the US. While their arrival may not have been legal, it's hard to call it unethical. Comparing their situation to that of immigrants 100 years ago when the path was open and there was no line (average immigrants waited 2 to 5 hours to be processed at Ellis Island), or to that of skilled workers who have good jobs in their home countries and want to migrate to even better jobs here is unfair.
BTW, rumor is one of my ancestors arrived in America as a stowaway. Should I be heading back to Europe?
6
Different time, different circumstances.
14
"With 11 million illegal immigrants you can go the police state route and try to deport them all"
Or you can make things miserable enough for them that they will "self deport".
Cut off all welfare for illegal aliens and refuse to hire anyone who can not prove their American citizenship or green card status.
Or you can make things miserable enough for them that they will "self deport".
Cut off all welfare for illegal aliens and refuse to hire anyone who can not prove their American citizenship or green card status.
17
Pay back taxes and learn English? Won't happen. It didn't happen after the 1986 amnesty, either. In fact, Senator Schumer saw to it that illegal aliens didn't have to pay back taxes by adding a line to another bill prohibiting the INS from sharing information about legalizing illegal aliens with the IRS.
Fact is, we do NOT need unskilled, uneducated workers. Automation is rapidly doing away with the need for those.
Fact is, we do NOT need unskilled, uneducated workers. Automation is rapidly doing away with the need for those.
21
I find it ironic -- though the writer apparently didn't -- that illegal immigrant Aracely's goal in coming to the US is to "help people." Are there no people worthy of helping where she is a legal citizen? If not, I'm surprised people aren't flocking there to live.
There are plenty of legal helpers in the United States. We're not only helping those legally here, but providing free health care, education and subsidies like food stamps to 13 million illegals.
There are plenty of legal helpers in the United States. We're not only helping those legally here, but providing free health care, education and subsidies like food stamps to 13 million illegals.
47
These two are part of a massive inversion in the concept of "Manifest Destiny". In the mid 19th century America felt it was almost a divine right to take over about a third of Mexico which now Texas, Arizona, most of California etc. make up.
4
Many commenters refer to the 19th century and the "loss" of Mexican land to the US as justification for rewarding illegal immigration from Mexico. Although I am unfamiliar with the Mexican American War, boundaries did change and the states Texas, Arizona and California became part of the Union although not in that order. Texas fought a war of independence from Mexico and later became part of the US. Before all of this happened, the Spanish did their level best to persecute poor Mexicans and enslave them. What I am trying to say is that the United States is a sovereign nation with a national border that became porous because business interests wanted cheaper labor than they thought they could get in the US, and apparently Mexico didn't care to tax its elites so that employment opportunities and a decent standard of living was open to all citizens. I might also add that many Americans did work that they were not supposed to do. I was one of those who cleaned and worked behind a counter. Only well-to-do Americans now can afford domestic labor and do not have to do service work. But if a lot of Latin workers are taking lower paying jobs in the service sector and elsewhere that does limit the opportunities for lower income Americans.
10
Tony, that third of Mexico was taken from NATIVE AMERICANS by the Spanish and Mexico got it when it got independence. No moral high ground there.
16
Mexico (or more precisely New Spain) had their own version of Manifest Destiny. They were responsible for the murder of more indigenous groups of people than Andrew Jackson could ever dream of.
Has Mexico abrogated the Treaty of Guadalupe?
Has Mexico abrogated the Treaty of Guadalupe?
10
Young people like this are exactly the people making our country better. Proud to have young women like this want to be Americans.
7
How about they make their own countries better?
39
I'd say it's their country as much as it is your country. Have you ever done anything to make this country better?
3
Apparently you did not read the article.One of them was born here and certainly is making her country better.
2
These bright young women should go back to Mexico, enroll in colleges these, go to dental school, law school, whatever. Many USA students who can't quite make it into USA graduate programs go to Mexico for their advanced degrees, so why not Dalia and Aracela. They might find that they can "help the community" right in Mexico, their native land.
45
One of the bright young women is a US Citizen. Why should she go back to Mexico? It appears she is a citizen just like you.
The other one is caught is limbo. Raised in the US with no knowledge of Mexico? Besides, how do you know she can read and write in Spanish just because she speaks it? Can she handle UNDERGRADUATE programs in a language that she may or may not speak? Your comment is disturbing.
The other one is caught is limbo. Raised in the US with no knowledge of Mexico? Besides, how do you know she can read and write in Spanish just because she speaks it? Can she handle UNDERGRADUATE programs in a language that she may or may not speak? Your comment is disturbing.
5
That bright young woman is also a citizen of Mexico, according to Mexico.
As for not being able to go back to Mexico because she doesn't speak Spanish, pull the other one. How did her parents manage to come here illegally and live here without knowing English? For that matter, my American niece learned Spanish, is fluent in it, and lives in Spain.
As for not being able to go back to Mexico because she doesn't speak Spanish, pull the other one. How did her parents manage to come here illegally and live here without knowing English? For that matter, my American niece learned Spanish, is fluent in it, and lives in Spain.
10
The two sides on the illegal immigration issue should compromise. Americans are reluctant to support another amnesty for illegal immigrants because they know open border advocates will work to thwart efforts to curtail future illegal immigration. In 1986, we granted amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants based on promises that the federal government would stop future illegal immigration. But a tsunami of illegal immigrants quickly pushed the number of people in the country illegally to more than 11 million. The argument that there are too many illegal immigrants to deport is an admission that the federal government cannot stop illegal immigration on its own. Before granting another amnesty, we should take measures to stop future illegal immigration. We should enact Congressional legislation that empowers states, counties and cities to make it unlawful for unauthorized immigrants to reside within their jurisdictions. We should make E-Verify mandatory nationwide. We should amend or reinterpret the citizenship clause to grant birthright citizenship only to children born to U.S. parents. We should automatically deny asylum to migrants who enter the country unlawfully. (Asylum-seekers should apply for asylum at U.S. embassies in their home countries or at legal ports of entry.) Once these measures are in place, we should grant legal resident status to illegal immigrants who have grown up in the United State or who have established families in the United States.
12
THe US needs a comprehensive immigration plan with a path to citizenship. PRes. Bush and Pres. OBama have pushed for one. MAybe only a Congress less partisan or with a greater number f Democrats can make that happen. Or changes in states like Arizona, where there are so many undocumented children growing up. Some states allow any student with the grades to succeed in college to apply to state schools. That is good, since only a third of the population has a college degree. We need a more educated citizenry. Allowing grads to become citizens and servicemen and women to become citizens would help. Then there are court appointments by a new president, judges at all levels who are sympathetic to immigrants. Why penalize eager, smart young people who have broken no law. Why not help them to succeed here. We need their youth and desire to succeed especially if they will graduate and better the society.
5
K, amnesty didn't pass even when DEMOCRATS controlled Congress during Bush's last 2 years and had his support for it, nor during Obama's first two when they passed Obamacare on a one-party vote. Fact is, it's not only Republicans who oppose amnesty (in fact, many cheap labor Republicans WANT amnesty and more immigration).
8
Very few comments acknowledge that these young women had nothing to do with the fact that they were brought here illegally. They played no part in that decision; they were too young. They should be penalized for a difficult decision (and a journey beyond what most Americans could imagine) their parents made to attempt a better life for them.
Reading some of these comments makes me ashamed to be an American. Where is compassion and kindness?
Reading some of these comments makes me ashamed to be an American. Where is compassion and kindness?
10
Bright. Hardworking. Educated. Personable. Both of these young people have a great deal to offer the nation where they are citizens and where they hold voting rights: Mexico. If that country is ever to improve, it needs more folks like these.
36
As of yet there has been little if any mention of the reasons illegal immigration has been such a challenge for the American voter. Does she recall that the hunched-over Mexicans in the strawberry fields of the Oxnard plain of California allow her to feed her coddled child fresh fruit all year round at low prices? Does the NASCAR dad forget that his favorite beer joint serves him tasty burgers and Freedom Fries at affordable prices because back-room service jobs like the cook and dish-washer pay substandard wages because there are "others" willing to do the work that so-called poor or undereducated American workers don't want? C'mon folks! Look at the bigger picture! Our small business owners, probably Republican, want it both ways. Pay living wages and Americans will do the work illegal immigrants have been imported (wink-wink) to do! That is America's dirty little secret.
17
It sounds like deporting illegals (forget about counting the numbers turned back at the borders) and tightening up the borders would be a favor to the Mexican people. So let's go for it.
9
Courses like "Latino Studies" will increase Daila's illegitimate sense of entitlement while leaving her berift of the skills to support herself.
Doubtless her place at Williams could have gone to an equally deserving and poor US citizen.
Is it any wonder that citizens feel lost and ignored in favor of interlopers. Stories like this fuel their langer open the door for an opportunistic sociopath like Trump.
Doubtless her place at Williams could have gone to an equally deserving and poor US citizen.
Is it any wonder that citizens feel lost and ignored in favor of interlopers. Stories like this fuel their langer open the door for an opportunistic sociopath like Trump.
38
Dalia is a U.S. Citizen. Creating your own set of "facts" is what opens the door for the politics of hate. Read the article before you comment!
8
Quite the contrary. Courses such as "Latino Studies" help students understand that there is institutional racism and structural inequality.
They help students -- white, brown, black, of different social strata--recognize that their situation is not simply a matter of individual actions, but societal forces. It helps them realize that they are not alone -- and, to understand that many widely-promulgated theories (myths) of poverty and inequality focus on the individual and from part of a social system that blames its victims.
Your prejudice comes through loud and clear-- you jump from a single Latino Studies course to her having a "sense of entitlement" and being "bereft of skills"! Wow! Then, to top it off, you want to give her place in college to someone else, a deserving U.S. citizen -- yet, she's as American as you are!
They help students -- white, brown, black, of different social strata--recognize that their situation is not simply a matter of individual actions, but societal forces. It helps them realize that they are not alone -- and, to understand that many widely-promulgated theories (myths) of poverty and inequality focus on the individual and from part of a social system that blames its victims.
Your prejudice comes through loud and clear-- you jump from a single Latino Studies course to her having a "sense of entitlement" and being "bereft of skills"! Wow! Then, to top it off, you want to give her place in college to someone else, a deserving U.S. citizen -- yet, she's as American as you are!
8
And let's enjoy and welcome (as an example) the educated and often highly trained Asians who come here and who bring expertise and high standards to our professions. And who speak English.
The racial divide in the US deeply entrenched not only in society, but in the US laws themselves. Mexico is racially mixed, and practices its own brand of racism, but there is no legal classification by race. I suspect that is the case of most countries. It most be hard to live with a stigma that should not have legal gronds in the frst place.
3
Most illegal immigrants and most Hispanic Americans are white. According to the U.S. Census Bureau, the United States was 77.4 percent white in 2014, up three percentage points from 74.4 percent in 2012, due primarily to immigration from Latin America. The Census Bureau projects the United States will continue to grow whiter as long as current immigration trends continue.
https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/table/PST045215/00
https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/table/PST045215/00
6
A large number of comments suggest that contrasting these two young women is part of the NYT's ongoing propaganda in favor of illegal immigrants. Several comments direct the NYT's attention toward the millions of people in other countries who are waiting in line for legal permission to become American immigrants. Well, to satisfy the commenters, why not do a story that contrasts the lives of our illegal immigrants against the lives of those waiting in line. Then ask us what should be done.
25
Follow the law. Easy enough.
23
How many citizens from countries outside United States who filed the proper paperwork are waiting to obtain permanent residency status in the US? These potential immigrants who will be screened by Homeland Security should be given priority for legal immigration status over undocumented immigrants who either never bothered to immigrate through legal channels or those who gave up waiting for the legal process. Every country has limited resources; citizens and legal residents should have priority to receive such resources over people who are here illegally. As a naturalized US citizen who immigrated with the full blessings of USA, I can't expect to illegally settle to another country like Canada and expect Canadian immigration officials to allow me to stay because I follow their laws, pay their taxes, and love their country. Every country has a right to screen who is and who is not allowed to live within their borders. To the women profiled in this story, the best opportunities for them is to move to California. Aracely can pay in state tuition fees at public colleges, qualify for the state college grants, and obtain a driver's license. California has one of the most generous government policies for illegal immigrants.
15
The people primarily responsible for this sorry situation are the ones illegally employing their parents for cheap labor. I am a legal immigrant, no company I have worked for will ever hire an illegal immigrant. This is because these are large companies and will not take the risk.
Greedy employers are the core issue. The focus on border security or illegals is misplaced. The illegals are desperate people and border security is pretty tight. The only rational way of solving this problem is to go after illegal employers.
In the meantime, stop harassing the immigrants who are already here, and there children. It will not solve the problem.
Greedy employers are the core issue. The focus on border security or illegals is misplaced. The illegals are desperate people and border security is pretty tight. The only rational way of solving this problem is to go after illegal employers.
In the meantime, stop harassing the immigrants who are already here, and there children. It will not solve the problem.
30
The article gave a choice of which story to read first; I read Aracely's story first. I'm not clear the reading order had an impact on my thoughts. I thought both young ladies made many valid points, however those valid points do not negate the fact that Aracely is not a citizen. I wondered how she was working-a quick Google says that under DACA, you may be eligible for a SS card which would allow a person to work legally. So many argue that illegal immigrants do jobs that citizens wouldn't do. She started at $9.50 an hour, which will increase to $12/hour after three months. While this is not a fortune, can the argument be made that there was no American citizen or legal resident qualified and willing to take that job?
Ms. Luque is a student at Williams College and I am happy for her. Hopefully she will graduate and have a career of her choosing. She is a citizen, but her mother is not, and since DAPA did not pass, her mother is still here illegally. From a pure humanitarian perspective, it is unfortunate that her father was deported and their family must live apart. However, from a legal perspective (and we all must obey the law, even the ones we don't like) both her parents broke the law. The mom could have elected to return to Mexico to be with the father and the children, but elected not to do so. They thought they could wait long enough and amnesty would be granted. They gambled and lost.
Ms. Luque is a student at Williams College and I am happy for her. Hopefully she will graduate and have a career of her choosing. She is a citizen, but her mother is not, and since DAPA did not pass, her mother is still here illegally. From a pure humanitarian perspective, it is unfortunate that her father was deported and their family must live apart. However, from a legal perspective (and we all must obey the law, even the ones we don't like) both her parents broke the law. The mom could have elected to return to Mexico to be with the father and the children, but elected not to do so. They thought they could wait long enough and amnesty would be granted. They gambled and lost.
43
Her father was deported and the family CHOSE to live apart. They were free to join him in his country where they're also citizens (the Mexican gov't recognizes them as such) and where they ALL have a legal right to be.
2
Immediate legal residency should be available for both and their family members, followed by application for citizenship as each may choose.
6
Right after they leave and apply legally for citizenship.
23
I believe in amnesty for all immigrants immediately. Then have a public congressional debate and vote on future quotas of allowed immigration.
4
Right, then you can dust off your post 15 years down the road and submit it again.
6
Aracely: You noted that your deepest wish is to help people. You are doing that: you are helping your family. And with time you may find ways to help others. Not everyone gets to go to college, no matter how smart or gifted. Keep learning even if it's on your own. Maybe some day you will own a business and be in a position to help people by giving them good jobs. Even if you "only" type invoices for the rest of your life, you could rise to be a manager with a good income and knowledge of the workplace that you can share with young people in need of guidance. Hang in there.
2
Comprehensive immigration reform including amnesty for Mexicans who have been living here and contributing for generations. We have got to stop treating our southern neighbors as cheap labor that we call on when we need them and deport when we don't. If you don't know what I'm talking about read up the history of Mexican/American migrations.
6
"Comprehensive immigration reform including amnesty for Mexicans who have been living here and contributing for generations."
One of the biggest problems is that their "contributions" don't extend to paying a dime in social security or income tax for "generations". And you want to grant amnesty to them in return for being tax dodgers? No thanks.
One of the biggest problems is that their "contributions" don't extend to paying a dime in social security or income tax for "generations". And you want to grant amnesty to them in return for being tax dodgers? No thanks.
8
I think our immigration laws are akin to the laws once used to enforce slavery. It is a moral wrong to separate families based on "laws" made by people who feel superior because they came earlier in the history of this country, just as slavery was a moral wrong.
Immigrants mostly come to this country because their labor is needed. Every immigrant has an employer who profits from him or her doing work. Nevertheless immigrants do not enjoy the broad legal protections citizens do. Again the analogy of slavery applies. The difference between legal and illegal is an artifice used by those wanting to exploit the labor of the disadvantaged.
Will we ever look at ourselves and acknowledge that what we are doing is totally un American?
Immigrants mostly come to this country because their labor is needed. Every immigrant has an employer who profits from him or her doing work. Nevertheless immigrants do not enjoy the broad legal protections citizens do. Again the analogy of slavery applies. The difference between legal and illegal is an artifice used by those wanting to exploit the labor of the disadvantaged.
Will we ever look at ourselves and acknowledge that what we are doing is totally un American?
6
I choose acceptance and a path to citizenship. I want illegal immigration to stop, and I think we pretty much have accomplished that. Border security should be one of our highest priorities. But, I want undocumented people, who crossed the southern border, and have been here a long time, to be able to come out of the shadows and become some of our finest citizens. They will if we change our tune, and welcome, and assist them.
6
You believe that nobody is currently crossing our southern border? Please visit the border for a few days and then comment. I live down here and the Dems are lying to you.
16
Why should we offer any "assistance" to anyone who wants to come here? Since when are we supposed to subsidize anyone's immigration decision?
8
Daughter of a legal, Italian immigrant mother who was able to study, earn her citizenship when I was in 10th grade. How proud and relieved she was , to be "permanently" an American. I feel a bit of a kinship with the two girls featured in your article.
I find it unconscionable that the U. S. Senate has blocked the appointment of the 9th Supreme Court Justice nominated by our great President Barack Obama. This will continue to produce a stalemate on legislation such as DAPA. Our government is in chains.
Comprehensive Reform of immigration policy must happen to provide a legitimate pathway to citizenship for millions of illegals whom we knowingly , clearly take advantage of. Our country uses and needs them.
I find it unconscionable that the U. S. Senate has blocked the appointment of the 9th Supreme Court Justice nominated by our great President Barack Obama. This will continue to produce a stalemate on legislation such as DAPA. Our government is in chains.
Comprehensive Reform of immigration policy must happen to provide a legitimate pathway to citizenship for millions of illegals whom we knowingly , clearly take advantage of. Our country uses and needs them.
8
Both stories seem to offer the same point of view. I don't see why we are supposed to pick between the two.
5
It's never been the American way to punish innocent kids for the sins of their parents. In fact, it's not even Christian, since Ezekiel 18:20 avers: "The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son." To come down hard on these two little girls, Americans culturally, as so many in the comments have done is SHAMEFUL. As a society, if we enact obstacles for them to achieve their full potential the cost will not only be theirs, but ours as well. E Pluribus Unum. We, as a nation of immigrants, lose much if we decide to keep a large and growing segment of our population without access to drivers' licenses, solid educations, stable home environments. Ours is not a zero-sum economy or nation; their gain is not our loss, but rather their gain is all of our gain and, I for one, find it comforting that leaders from both parties (Trump and his minions of xenophobes aside), from Reagan to Clinton (i.e. Hillary) find the need to pass immigration reform with a path to citizenship.
5
Australia has the right idea. People who try to break into that country illegally will never be allowed to settle there. It's working.
46
Please walk back across the border you crossed illegally and apply for citizenship according to our laws. I will have zero concern for you until you do.
33
"Paying for me would mean paying out-of-state tuition at a community college, and that’s enough to pay for five people who are citizens."
Perfect. The system is working at least somewhat. America is here to serve Americans, not illegal foreigners.
"I want to be an immigration lawyer."
Great. Hopefully, you abide by your oath to uphold the law. And deport the illegal aliens that butted the line in front of hundreds of millions who are patiently waiting their turn.
Perfect. The system is working at least somewhat. America is here to serve Americans, not illegal foreigners.
"I want to be an immigration lawyer."
Great. Hopefully, you abide by your oath to uphold the law. And deport the illegal aliens that butted the line in front of hundreds of millions who are patiently waiting their turn.
43
It has been so long since we meaningfully enforced immigration law that the sense of entitlement, of righteousness, fairly drips from the lips of illegal "immigrants" and their kids. One of the really great tragedies of this whole mess is that Hispanics, as a group, have a pall over them when the real issue is illegal "immigrants", the majority of which are Hispanic. But as long as the Hispanic community is solidly on the side of those who have broken the law, this pall will persist.
35
Tough tough situation ... but the US is not the Golden Opportunity ti's made out to be . . . and getting in legally is still a daunting process!
3
Both sets of my grandparents immigrated from Eastern and Southern Europe had to wait years to be allowed to legally immigrate to the United States. They didn't arrive to the United States uninvited. I have no sympathy for the 12 million people who have overstayed there welcome and are living here illegally. I recent read an article in magazine that Texas has 1.68 million undocumented immigrants living here, including over 200,000 people from India. People who come to our country and start right off the bat doing something wrong by migrating to the United States illegally is no way to stir up our sympathies. I also want a proposition to revoke citizenship to babies who are born here by tourists and illegal immigrants. Enough is enough.
By the way, I am a liberal.
By the way, I am a liberal.
49
While people are crying tears for these young ladies let's also remember that their lives here in the USA even as illegals are considerably better than where they and their parents came from. There must be laws put into place and administered or there is no country. I sense a certain amount of entitled in their attitude that somehow it's 'not fair' or they are entitled to stay. Sadly for them it is not the case but I think there is some common sense way to approach this but only if the Republicans win the Presidency and retain the House.
13
How do you know their lives are better than where they came from?
1
The issue is not whether (illegal) immigrants such as these are good people, or have potential to contribute to US society and economy.
They could equally well contribute to Mexican society and economy.
The issue is that their parents violated US national immigration law and entered the US illegally from Mexico, or where ever.
These facts do not make them more deserving to become citizens than other desirous immigrants, who have respected our laws and applied through proper procedures. Recently, a South Korean man in CA was ordered deported 40 years AFTER he was adopted as a child by American citizens. What makes illegal immigrants of any origin more deserving than him, to stay?
One policy revision we could try, is to acknowledge that our LAX enforcement created some of these problems. Recognize that children brought into the US -illegally- before the age of 5, who have resided here more than 5 consecutive years and continuously attended school, are perhaps (culturally) more American than anything else. These children (only) might be offered a path to remain simply because they are here not of their own volition. Their parents, however, should enjoy no such relief.
They could equally well contribute to Mexican society and economy.
The issue is that their parents violated US national immigration law and entered the US illegally from Mexico, or where ever.
These facts do not make them more deserving to become citizens than other desirous immigrants, who have respected our laws and applied through proper procedures. Recently, a South Korean man in CA was ordered deported 40 years AFTER he was adopted as a child by American citizens. What makes illegal immigrants of any origin more deserving than him, to stay?
One policy revision we could try, is to acknowledge that our LAX enforcement created some of these problems. Recognize that children brought into the US -illegally- before the age of 5, who have resided here more than 5 consecutive years and continuously attended school, are perhaps (culturally) more American than anything else. These children (only) might be offered a path to remain simply because they are here not of their own volition. Their parents, however, should enjoy no such relief.
19
Verifiable fact: There are more than a million Americans living in Mexico illegally. Should Mexico round them up?
3
yes
6
Mexico has every right to round up and deport anyone, Americans included, who is in the country illegally. Mexico's national sovereignty and laws should be respected. Just as should US laws and sovereignty.
21
>> Verifiable fact:
Where would I verify that fact? I don't believe it. Mexico strictly enforces immigration law. Pony up the source please. (And if you're correct, then yes, Mexico should enforce it's laws on Americans as well as all other violators.)
Where would I verify that fact? I don't believe it. Mexico strictly enforces immigration law. Pony up the source please. (And if you're correct, then yes, Mexico should enforce it's laws on Americans as well as all other violators.)
11
We have laws for a reason. Illegals immigrants are selfish; they are not fair to the people who wait to come here legally and do what is right and follow our laws. I am not impressed nor sympathetic to your articles. In the meantime, (before they become attorneys or whatever) we are paying for them and their public schools and hospitalizations and other social programs. Why doesn't the left understand this?
34
Undocumented immigrants actually do pay for their own public schools, hospitalizations and social programs -- they pay taxes. They pay property taxes through rent, they pay sales tax on everything they buy, millions pay income taxes using ITINs or by using made up social security numbers.
They pay into a system they don't benefit from actually -they are helping subsidize YOUR social security checks once you turn 65.
Why wouldn't you want these kinds of girls to go on and become "attorneys or something" - why wouldn't you want smart, hardworking people to succeed and be productive members of society? That's what I don't get.
They pay into a system they don't benefit from actually -they are helping subsidize YOUR social security checks once you turn 65.
Why wouldn't you want these kinds of girls to go on and become "attorneys or something" - why wouldn't you want smart, hardworking people to succeed and be productive members of society? That's what I don't get.
6
When I taught high school in the wine country, I had many students who needed jobs but refused to work in the vineyards ( or at McDonald's, for that matter) because it was "beneath them." Guess who took those jobs? And guess who paid taxes on the income?
American business ( NOT generally associated with the liberal left) is quite eager to use workers from other countries because they are generally reliable and hungry. I would think that the right would adore Hispanic immigrants, especially -- hard-working, law-abiding, pro-family, full of initiative...
There's an unwieldy immigration process to deal with, one that is WAY too clumsy to supply the labor force quickly. Why do you think undocumented people come here? People don't leave their families, homes and culture unless there is a pressing need.
If you want even more money in the coffers to pay for social services, why not eliminate the shadow economy by enfranchising the people that are already here working? It makes no sense.
American business ( NOT generally associated with the liberal left) is quite eager to use workers from other countries because they are generally reliable and hungry. I would think that the right would adore Hispanic immigrants, especially -- hard-working, law-abiding, pro-family, full of initiative...
There's an unwieldy immigration process to deal with, one that is WAY too clumsy to supply the labor force quickly. Why do you think undocumented people come here? People don't leave their families, homes and culture unless there is a pressing need.
If you want even more money in the coffers to pay for social services, why not eliminate the shadow economy by enfranchising the people that are already here working? It makes no sense.
4
Difficult to reason with an individual who assumes that those are sympathetic to the individuals in this story are automatically "left". A few words of advise Janis...the political and military actions of the U.S. in Central America stretching back decades has fueled the journey north. I suggest that you educate yourself before calling folks fleeing civil unrest, drug violence, economic instability selfish!
2
The control we can exert most readily is over ourselves. Each story of making it, or failing to do so, is a story of character. Paul Tough is an author who has written for the Times and also written books on inner city schools. He writes that character differentiates those who are able to overcome adversity from those who succumb.
From the dawn of civilization to today -- especially through religion -- mankind has tried to convey the idea that your fate is not in your own hands. It is God, or your parents, or your neighborhood, anything but yourself, that bears responsibility for your fate.
It might be helpful to reverse the order of things. Tell our kids to figure it out for themselves. Be a guide, a friend, a supporter, but make it clear that in the end, they are on theirr own.
From the dawn of civilization to today -- especially through religion -- mankind has tried to convey the idea that your fate is not in your own hands. It is God, or your parents, or your neighborhood, anything but yourself, that bears responsibility for your fate.
It might be helpful to reverse the order of things. Tell our kids to figure it out for themselves. Be a guide, a friend, a supporter, but make it clear that in the end, they are on theirr own.
3
Really? The NYT is now featuring illegals in sob-story mode? Have you no concern for American citizens whose jobs are at risk, for legal immigrants who spent long times and went through the process to get here, for taxpayers who pay for heir health care while citizens go uninsured, for taxpayers forced to subsidize their education in many states, while our many of our own children have sub-standard education? Obviously, the answer is none, given your open borders stance. Disgusting.
45
I am astonished by the cruel tone of so many readers' comments. I know that breaking the law is a huge problem but at least have a little sympathy for these
two innocent individuals who are in the US because of their parents actions.
I can not believe how nonchalantly some are saying send them back to "their" country. They don't have another country. They are Americans.
I don't have a solution to the illegal immigration problem. We need to have a national dialogue. But I know very well that we need to have sympathy and humanity and try to understand these kids' dilemma and help them if we can.
two innocent individuals who are in the US because of their parents actions.
I can not believe how nonchalantly some are saying send them back to "their" country. They don't have another country. They are Americans.
I don't have a solution to the illegal immigration problem. We need to have a national dialogue. But I know very well that we need to have sympathy and humanity and try to understand these kids' dilemma and help them if we can.
6
I doubt we'll see much progress in the short term. I think DAPA proposal is a modest step in the right direction. For a longer term reform, I would grant undocumented people who can prove they entered the country before age 16 a "parole-to-permanent resident" status if they have no serious crimes. If their record is still "clean" after 5 years they should be Permanent Residents and can start the clock on citizenship. Older undocumented should be eligible for "parole-to-permanent" status on a point system: English language, high school, higher education, honorable military service and crime-free records should allow most of them to become "legal." Undocumented with criminal (felony or misdemeanor) convictions should be deported.
Overall, our immigration system should resemble Canada's with "points" for valuable (educated) immigrants or those with close relations in the USA. The total number should be gradually reduced. Obviously allowances for spouses and minor children should remain. Some refugees should continue to be accepted.
Overall, our immigration system should resemble Canada's with "points" for valuable (educated) immigrants or those with close relations in the USA. The total number should be gradually reduced. Obviously allowances for spouses and minor children should remain. Some refugees should continue to be accepted.
1
No changes to U.S. immigration laws, except that they be more actively enforced and respected by the rest of the world. We have the right and responsibility to say who becomes a citizen and when. Period. There are many, many people worldwide who want to live here, they've put their name on the federal list and are waiting until it is their turn to come here and remain, if ever. Those who choose to come to the U.S. illegally are jumping the line, ignoring our laws, then they cry foul when authorities remind them of the line they've crossed. It's outrageous that because the United States even mildly tries to keep illegal immigration under control, its citizens are labeled racist, selfish and uncaring. If we're so bad, then illegal immigrants should return to their country of origin and make the best of it there.
26
It is not just the editorial page of the New York Times that pushes a leftist world view; the so-called "unbiased" news pages do so as well. That is why we as conservatives put little to no stock in this paper, and read it only to see what the left is trying to push. Simple solution, deport all illegals. Our nation has a right to control our borders, regardless of what the Times says.
23
Labor Democrats, rather than Corporatist Democrats also recognize this as propaganda that is fundamentally anti-labor.
14
Really from Boston, MA, although I imagine that you and I represent opposite ends of the political spectrum, I wholeheartedly agree with your comment. The influx of low skilled illegals has done tremendous harm to citizens of our country, predominantly those on the lower end of the educational scale. The Democrat party establishment is more concerned with the votes of the children of illegals than with the economic well being of our own citizens. They know but just don't care that an increased supply of low skilled labor cannot help but depress wages.
1
@Ron Wilson -although, I am a Democrat and I believe that we are probably closer in our views than you may think.
I have been waiting for years - I am 41 years old - for the Democrats to turn their attention to what I view as their natural constituency - working class and middle class U.S. citizens, but it seems that the present day establishment Democratic Party is beholden to the elites and they placate the non-elites party members with social issues that obscure the economic issues that are much more significant to those who work for a living.
I have been waiting for years - I am 41 years old - for the Democrats to turn their attention to what I view as their natural constituency - working class and middle class U.S. citizens, but it seems that the present day establishment Democratic Party is beholden to the elites and they placate the non-elites party members with social issues that obscure the economic issues that are much more significant to those who work for a living.
We see many, many stories in the media about truly lovely people, who have an immigration problem of some sort or another.
But strangely, when we read a story a story about someone committing a heinous crime, if they happen to be an illegal immigrant, every possible effort is made by media to hide that fact.
There are wonderful immigrants, and horrible immigrants. The whole trick is to get all of the wonderful ones that we need, pass up on the wonderful ones we don't need (since our resources are not unlimited), and absolutely exclude the horrible ones.
There is no way to do that without an effective border policy, and rational immigration laws. We have neither now, because immigration has been turned into a political foil by both of the two dominant parties.
Maybe, when we get our act together, and create a viable third party, where the major players aren't into stealin' and dealin' the problem will be solved.
But strangely, when we read a story a story about someone committing a heinous crime, if they happen to be an illegal immigrant, every possible effort is made by media to hide that fact.
There are wonderful immigrants, and horrible immigrants. The whole trick is to get all of the wonderful ones that we need, pass up on the wonderful ones we don't need (since our resources are not unlimited), and absolutely exclude the horrible ones.
There is no way to do that without an effective border policy, and rational immigration laws. We have neither now, because immigration has been turned into a political foil by both of the two dominant parties.
Maybe, when we get our act together, and create a viable third party, where the major players aren't into stealin' and dealin' the problem will be solved.
17
I too lived in Phoenix, AZ for awhile. My grandparents, and Dad immigrated to U.S. legally waiting to come over. Can't children apply for citizenship after being here a certain amount of time. Closing borders, no. But changing immigration policies yes. Why do people feel the need to come here illegally we should be asking? We all work so hard in US - most of us are paycheck to paycheck, homeless, minorities of one kind of another, etc. Lets stop looking at differences and realize we are all family. Let's start helping each other again. Praying we let people from other places know it is not easy in US either as my Dad so shockingly found out and worked so hard for his family. Bless you and keep working hard. I worked full time and went to college part time while raising a family.
1
no they can't apply unless they leave before they are 18 and a half and have the money for a student visa with the money to pay for college. Even if you are here your whole life there is currently no path towards legality. We must have a rational national discussion and immigration reform. I would like to end birth right citizenship but that will take constitutional changes
2
I don't know where to begin. I find the stories of these immigrants heartbreaking but them I think about all the other people who so desperately want to come here and are waiting patiently for their turn. Why is it okay for people (no matter how nice they are) get a free pass when so many can't. It is just not okay to cross the border illegally or to come here on a visa and overstay.
I believe we need to reform our immigration system. I'm not sure what may work but e-Verify would be a good start as would a national I.D. system. I think the future hold for us a biometric identifier for all citizens. Probably not in my lifetime though.
The bottom line is we just can't take everyone no matter how individually deserving they may be.
I believe we need to reform our immigration system. I'm not sure what may work but e-Verify would be a good start as would a national I.D. system. I think the future hold for us a biometric identifier for all citizens. Probably not in my lifetime though.
The bottom line is we just can't take everyone no matter how individually deserving they may be.
72
"I believe we need to reform our immigration system. I'm not sure what may work but e-Verify would be a good start as would a national I.D. system. I think the future hold for us a biometric identifier for all citizens. Probably not in my lifetime though."
Why should it be necessary for LEGAL US citizens to acquire and lug around a "biometric identifier" or a "national I.D" card (both of which are just one more way for the government to track its own citizens) simply because our neighbors from south of the border show utter contempt for this nation and its laws. The family in this story has been living here for decades, and has no intention of ever changing its status. They are the problem here. Period.
It is Illegal immigrants who need to change their ways, not US citizens and taxpayers.
Why should it be necessary for LEGAL US citizens to acquire and lug around a "biometric identifier" or a "national I.D" card (both of which are just one more way for the government to track its own citizens) simply because our neighbors from south of the border show utter contempt for this nation and its laws. The family in this story has been living here for decades, and has no intention of ever changing its status. They are the problem here. Period.
It is Illegal immigrants who need to change their ways, not US citizens and taxpayers.
6
mpound maybe because illegals do not have a scarlet letter on their forehead. Half of our illegals are from visa overstays mostly from Asian nations but the two people I knew personally who were illegal were from England and Scotland
1
I sometimes address someone in Spanish because I want to practice my Spanish, not because I think the person can't speak English. But I understand how Araceli feels and because of that I've started asking people if it's OK to speak Spanish to practice. That gets a 100% positive response.
2
If I overstay my visa by 48 hours I get deported out of the US by plane. If you cross the border illegally from Mexico, you get featured in the NYT.
37
NO you don't. Don't be melodramatic. Do you have any idea how many Asians and Europeans overstay their visas stretching over months and years. They are less likely to be scrutinized or stereotyped by immigration services in comparisons to folks from Mexico and Central America. If you are going to keep it real then let's keep it real.
6
That is what the law stipulates and what we are told at my immigration office, where I'm obviously including the grace period. I'm further required to check-in at the beginning of every school/work term lest my visa be revoked and I be barred from returning to the US. Perhaps you should deliver that pitch to the myriad of immigrants overstaying their visa you seem to be well acquainted with.
4
There seems to be an agenda for the people from Mexico and Central America. Could it be more votes?
4
I wonder if any of the respondents to this article getting angry that these girls broke the law have ever driven over the speed limit or smoked an illicit drug. Some law violations are more serious than others. Denouncing illegal immigration a priori because it's illegal is ridiculous.
2
You can't equate driving over the speed limit to illegal immigrants. Apples and oranges. The sob stories come out every so often with the Times, I just love how they condone the breaking of our laws. It's a slap in the face to those who are patiently waiting their turn to come here LEGALLY. Send them home.
I'll not shed a tear and neither will quite a few. Ask those who are waiting in line legally how they feel. The leftist bias from this rag is typical.
I'll not shed a tear and neither will quite a few. Ask those who are waiting in line legally how they feel. The leftist bias from this rag is typical.
15
Administrative selection of successfully integrating immigrants requires lots of rules and queue formation to get through them. De facto selection of successfully integrating immigrants requires endurance and durability on the part of the immigrant and reasonable tolerance, whatever that is, on the part of the receiving entity. It seems to me that individuals who have successfully carved out a successful living experience over a time to be defined, perhaps 7 to 15 years, or approximately the spam of a generation, should have some path to legal acceptance that is relatively free of sled destruction (eg, leaving the country for an extended period of time measured in years, as in 1 to 15 years, enough to cripple someone of other than generous wealth. I would not accept in such a category anyone transgressing societal safety or norms (eg violent criminals, financial criminals, drunk our intoxicated endangerment of others, etc.), but I view it as a tragedy and waste of societal capital expenditure to sacrifice on the altar of solely statutory transgression the humanity and virtue displayed in individuals such as these (as well as individuals who may have made more humble accomplishments our success) effectively living and contributing to a society not of their origin. We should have a sustained pathway to permanent residence and citizenship for "undocumented non citizens."
Unfortunately, any program that rewards lawbreakers just encourages more to come over. We tried this once and the Dems failed to live up to their part. We're not going to get fooled again.
6
It truly makes me sad to see how angry and hateful the comments on these articles have become. Why are we so fixated on drawing lines of "us" versus "them"? Shouldn't every human being get a chance to excel and become the best they can be? If we, as a nation, are alright with forcing people to live in fear based on nothing other than their nation of origin I think we will have betrayed ourselves. We can't hold up the Statue of Liberty as a symbol if we are not going to remember the poem inscribed on its base.
3
Yes every person should get a chance but not by breaking the law to do it.
Let's put it this way. My car is 10+ years old still runs and looks like new but I really want a new car. Think I'll go to Toyota and pick out a nice one but not pay for it. I deserve it. I pay my taxes go to work vote etc. I think I'll take it.
But wait I can't that's stealing and breaking the law....now I get it.
You want a chance in life? You want to live in the USA, fine get in line and apply.
Let's put it this way. My car is 10+ years old still runs and looks like new but I really want a new car. Think I'll go to Toyota and pick out a nice one but not pay for it. I deserve it. I pay my taxes go to work vote etc. I think I'll take it.
But wait I can't that's stealing and breaking the law....now I get it.
You want a chance in life? You want to live in the USA, fine get in line and apply.
15
Lets start by talking about legal immigration first. The whole situation with illegal immigration has made life hell for those of us who came here on merit.
14
Dalia: I can't imagine why you supported Sanders over Hillary. Read her book 'Living History' - especially about her history of service to disadvantaged people of all colors starting when she was in high school - you might be surprised to see someone very much like you; smart, determined. And then look at all the good she's done. She is flawed, to be sure, but she has done much good. Sanders is like the UN - all theory and shouting, and not much to show for it after all his years of "service." You're a remarkable young woman - hang in there, because you are a survivor, and you can and will make it. Good luck!
Every single illegal immigrant has a story. And I am reasonably confident that most of them would tug at ones heart. They certainly tug at mine anyway. As a family law lawyer of 20 years experience I shake my head at suggestions of strict black and white enforcement of such a massive problem/issue. It flies in the face of both legal theory and legal reality to believe that blanket deportation will work or address the problem. To put it another way, if one chooses to view this as simply an issue of immigration rights, then be prepared to collide head on with issues of human rights. Both of these rights are trains on the same track. You can't effectively set policy in either of them without being mindful of the other. And this is not an opinion. It is a fact. But we all know how far actual facts have been dealt with in the current US election cycle.
1
Those law-abiding illegal immigrants came here a long while ago should be given a path to citizenship, because we don't have sufficient resource to deport them all. On the other hand, US should have a proper southern boarder to minimize any new incoming immigrants. This are the most pragmatic solutions.
Remember NYT, whenever you are bringing sympathy to illegals immigrants, you are insulting all US citizens and millions of aliens who came into US legally. Also, being emotional will not solve any problems.
Remember NYT, whenever you are bringing sympathy to illegals immigrants, you are insulting all US citizens and millions of aliens who came into US legally. Also, being emotional will not solve any problems.
5
"Law-abiding illegal immigrants"???
6
Serendipity!
How is it that two very talented young female Arizona students end up in differing situations, except to accept that chance plays a role. Why is one at Williams and the other denied the chance at a higher education at a state-funded system? Look at ourselves, American-born citizens of privilege! We vote in representatives who harm the opportunities of young women like Aracely. I was born in the U.S. of legal immigrants from México and went to Harvard College and UCKA School of Medicine, but so what! Serendipity, my fellow Americans! This country should be about ability, not serendipity.
How is it that two very talented young female Arizona students end up in differing situations, except to accept that chance plays a role. Why is one at Williams and the other denied the chance at a higher education at a state-funded system? Look at ourselves, American-born citizens of privilege! We vote in representatives who harm the opportunities of young women like Aracely. I was born in the U.S. of legal immigrants from México and went to Harvard College and UCKA School of Medicine, but so what! Serendipity, my fellow Americans! This country should be about ability, not serendipity.
1
A man born in Korea, and adopted by an American family that abused him, dumped him back into the system only to be adopted and abused again, has just been deported because none of the adults responsible for him ensured he was naturalized.
After a horrific childhood, it's not surprising he managed to get into trouble. He is leaving behind his wife and children. He does not speak Korean.
Who is advocating for him? Where is the crowdfunding page to ensure he doesn't rot on the streets of South Korea; that his family can visit him; that he gets a high-powered lawyer who can appeal this and get it reversed?
If you don't come from the right special interest group, nobody knows your name.
After a horrific childhood, it's not surprising he managed to get into trouble. He is leaving behind his wife and children. He does not speak Korean.
Who is advocating for him? Where is the crowdfunding page to ensure he doesn't rot on the streets of South Korea; that his family can visit him; that he gets a high-powered lawyer who can appeal this and get it reversed?
If you don't come from the right special interest group, nobody knows your name.
24
A common thread among many comments is that these young women "broke the law", that doing so makes them illegal, and they have no beef if we act to enforce the law. Yet as young children they merely accompanied their parents, they had no independent participation. If a child is in the car when a parent is caught speeding or driving under the influence we do not charge the child. If a parent robs a bank or defrauds a church we do not charge the child. It is a clear miscarriage of justice to fault the child for a parent's act. Second, I suspect µmost of the people writing comments here have exceeded the speed limit at some point. That they were not caught does not mean they did not perform an illegal act. If you have exceeded the speed limit but were not ticketed you are an unprosecuted illegal driver. Feel a little less self-righteous while you add up how many times you have been guilty of this offense. And, as a few comments note, we are enthusiastic about deporting people for entering without papers but prosecution for hiring people without papers is rare. We need aggressive prosecution of those hiring people without papers, whether the employers are small-time construction crews or comfortable lawyers and doctors in Orange County with undocumented yard workers and housekeepers. The quickest way to get immigration reform is to round up a few thousand Republican employers and send them off for a year in federal prison. Nothing like felony possession of a maid to alter minds.
1
I agree wholeheartedly with you about the need for aggressive prosecution of employers who hire undocumented workers, but your analogies are way off base. As young children they merely accompanied their parents, yes, but as young adults they have chosen to remain in the US knowing full well that they are here illegally. The immigration system may be in need of reform, but that doesn't mean these young women aren't breaking the law.
11
Does the NYT not believe there are millions of U.S. citizens who have difficulty finding opportunities to match their potential in this country, from education to jobs? Do writers for the NYT live such a rarefied existence that they never meet such citizens?
86
@N
It's no longer the NYT- It's Huffington Post 2.0.
You either either swimming with us in a liberal Utopia or you are the ones fighting us- poisoning the liberal pond with loaded common sense questions such as: "How is this fair? or "How do we expect to pay for this?" Those are racist questions, and quite possibly anti-semitic.. I'm mean anti-immigrant or anti-refugee or ... Oh what's the difference.. Just shut up and drink your Hillary-aid, she's wonderful and will fix everything anyway.
It's no longer the NYT- It's Huffington Post 2.0.
You either either swimming with us in a liberal Utopia or you are the ones fighting us- poisoning the liberal pond with loaded common sense questions such as: "How is this fair? or "How do we expect to pay for this?" Those are racist questions, and quite possibly anti-semitic.. I'm mean anti-immigrant or anti-refugee or ... Oh what's the difference.. Just shut up and drink your Hillary-aid, she's wonderful and will fix everything anyway.
16
This girl couldn't continue studying due to her legal status. Did you read a different article then I did? How are you comparing USA citizens who can't find a job to a top student denied the right to keep studying.
So, you're saying that of the "millions of U.S. citizens who have difficulty finding opportunities to match their potential in this country", one is ready to accept a front office job at a tortilla company in Phoenix and the other would be an immigration lawyer, except that these two young women are standing in their way?
3
Aracely seems to follow the path of self-dependence as admonished by her mother, "Don't trust anyone." Dahlia's path has been one of reaching out and finding avenues with others that can relate to her circumstances. That they are both smart but one seems set to remain oppressed while the other excels is heartbreaking. Their stories point to a desperate need for true national reform so that immigrants are not subject to the biases and vagaries of individual states' laws on immigration. Clearly, children of illegal immigrants should not be punished an pulled from their families or denied opportunities for education for the actions of their parents. These stories of immigrants here to find a better life are not so far removed from so many of our own ancestors who crossed the ocean in similar pursuits.
3
Here is a better question: How is it that these two were tracked down, their names revealed, and yet they are still living in the country?
Compassion -- humanity's first disease.
Compassion -- humanity's first disease.
25
Because if you bothered to read and comprehend the article you would know that one of them is a natural born citizen.
1
Really? Compassion is a disease now too. And the reason why immigration and illegal immigrants are an issue is that there are so many of them and compassionate people refuse to deport them and enforce the harshness of the law. Those disease-riddled compassionate lawful US citizens are to blame!!! How dare they show compassion!!!
2
There are holes in both stories. Nowhere is there any mentioning of how Latinos (Hispanics) continue to push for bilingual education in their schools. Bilingual education is the reason why second and third generation Latinos (Hispanics) speak horrible English. Dalia wasted her money when she took 'Latino Studies.' Why not take pre-law, instead? And the whole story about her dad getting pulled over while not driving and asked to produce a driver's license, I don't buy it. But, it is easier to blame everything on Donald Trump.
33
I have many Hispanic students in my college classes, and they all speak English quite well They also speak Spanish quite well. Being bilingual gives them an advantage in our global economy. There is nothing wrong with Latino studies, and that does not preclude going to law school. USA is diverse. Get used to it.
5
"Nowhere is there any mentioning of how Latinos (Hispanics) continue to push for bilingual education in their schools."
Irrelevant. Trump and the anti-immigrant movement he represents would call for the wall and deportation even if Latinos spoke nothing but English.
"Bilingual education is the reason why second and third generation Latinos (Hispanics) speak horrible English."
Really? Every second and third generation Latino speaks what you call "horrible English"? Have you personally checked each and every one of these people's language skills? Clearly, these two first generation Latinas, Ms. Nuñez and Ms. Luque, speak excellent English.
"Dalia wasted her money when she took 'Latino Studies.' Why not take pre-law, instead?"
It's apparent that you've never attended college yourself. Ms. Luque indicated that she was a political science major--- a major often taken by undergraduates seeking to enter law school after they graduate. Conventional 4-year colleges like
Williams typically require their undergraduate students to take courses in a variety of subjects, not only in their major subjects. Contrary to what you wrote, it's apparent that Ms. Luque benefited greatly from the Latino Studies course.
"But, it is easier to blame everything on Donald Trump."
Not only easier, but truer.
Irrelevant. Trump and the anti-immigrant movement he represents would call for the wall and deportation even if Latinos spoke nothing but English.
"Bilingual education is the reason why second and third generation Latinos (Hispanics) speak horrible English."
Really? Every second and third generation Latino speaks what you call "horrible English"? Have you personally checked each and every one of these people's language skills? Clearly, these two first generation Latinas, Ms. Nuñez and Ms. Luque, speak excellent English.
"Dalia wasted her money when she took 'Latino Studies.' Why not take pre-law, instead?"
It's apparent that you've never attended college yourself. Ms. Luque indicated that she was a political science major--- a major often taken by undergraduates seeking to enter law school after they graduate. Conventional 4-year colleges like
Williams typically require their undergraduate students to take courses in a variety of subjects, not only in their major subjects. Contrary to what you wrote, it's apparent that Ms. Luque benefited greatly from the Latino Studies course.
"But, it is easier to blame everything on Donald Trump."
Not only easier, but truer.
4
Dalia took Latino Studies because she wanted to get a broader picture of her mother culture, which she would not have gotten from living in our euro-centric culture. If the point of education is to broaden one's perspective, isn't this a great place to start? Have you ever been to Arizona? It is one of the most racist places I have ever been, and I've traveled to almost every state and many, many countries.
As for bilingual ed, why would you NOT teach at least some of the curriculum in a person's native language if the goal is to teach them skills? Have you ever learned another language? Have you ever lived in another country? It's incredibly difficult. Both of these women live here because of their parents' choices -- hard choices, no doubt, because no one leaves culture and family and country behind unless there is a pressing need.
I wish the commenter (and all those who have such a negative view of Hispanic immigrants) would do visit Texas, Arizona, New Mexico and Southern California and look at the terrain and talk to the people. Then study a little history, enough to learn that all this territory used to be Mexico. We draw these ridiculous, abstract borders and think they will stop the movement of a people. We offer jobs to the poor and are more than willing to pay substandard wages, but when it comes to sharing the wealth through citizenship and education and a better standard of living, we rebel. If America is about equal opportunity for all, how is that fair?
As for bilingual ed, why would you NOT teach at least some of the curriculum in a person's native language if the goal is to teach them skills? Have you ever learned another language? Have you ever lived in another country? It's incredibly difficult. Both of these women live here because of their parents' choices -- hard choices, no doubt, because no one leaves culture and family and country behind unless there is a pressing need.
I wish the commenter (and all those who have such a negative view of Hispanic immigrants) would do visit Texas, Arizona, New Mexico and Southern California and look at the terrain and talk to the people. Then study a little history, enough to learn that all this territory used to be Mexico. We draw these ridiculous, abstract borders and think they will stop the movement of a people. We offer jobs to the poor and are more than willing to pay substandard wages, but when it comes to sharing the wealth through citizenship and education and a better standard of living, we rebel. If America is about equal opportunity for all, how is that fair?
5
The US immigration system is broken not because they are 11MM undocumented immigrants - it is broken because it creates haves and have nots based on arbitrary rules and quotas. Lacking simplicity, the system churns Kafkaesque hopelessness and stories such as these young women's.
Entry into the country should of course be controlled - build a wall or tighter security or tough scrutiny of visa applications - most of which already is in place. But after someone enters this country, whether it be for work or reuniting family or fleeing persecution, a simple set of rules, irrespective of the country they come from or born in, should apply. I suggest 2 rules.
#1 - Deportation for illegal behavior (being undocumented or a criminal) should only be allowed in the first 3 years of someone residing in the country. After someone lives in your neighborhood for 5, 10 or 20 years, throwing the Kafkaesque immigration rulebook at them is unfair and unAmerican. These people are part of this nation's fabric. Ripping them should not be an option. If the US government cannot identify or find undocumented people in 3 years, it needs a better system.
#2 - If someone is in the country for 5 years and pays taxes, irrespective of their visa or documented or undocumented status, they should have the right to get green cards and become a citizen in another 5 years. Taxation and representation should go hand in hand.
Aracely and Dalia's mom would both qualify to stay under these simple rules.
Entry into the country should of course be controlled - build a wall or tighter security or tough scrutiny of visa applications - most of which already is in place. But after someone enters this country, whether it be for work or reuniting family or fleeing persecution, a simple set of rules, irrespective of the country they come from or born in, should apply. I suggest 2 rules.
#1 - Deportation for illegal behavior (being undocumented or a criminal) should only be allowed in the first 3 years of someone residing in the country. After someone lives in your neighborhood for 5, 10 or 20 years, throwing the Kafkaesque immigration rulebook at them is unfair and unAmerican. These people are part of this nation's fabric. Ripping them should not be an option. If the US government cannot identify or find undocumented people in 3 years, it needs a better system.
#2 - If someone is in the country for 5 years and pays taxes, irrespective of their visa or documented or undocumented status, they should have the right to get green cards and become a citizen in another 5 years. Taxation and representation should go hand in hand.
Aracely and Dalia's mom would both qualify to stay under these simple rules.
12
Why should people who entered the country illegally be equally, or in your suggestion, better treated than those who went through massive amounts of paperwork, thousands of dollars in attorney's fees, and an excruciatingly painful process to do it the right and legal way?
13
So, according to you, if someone in the country illegally manages to go unnoticed for three years, we should reward that behavior with 'the right to get green cards' and citizenship. Notwithstanding the fact that this person has shown contempt for US law during that time.
Paying taxes in itself does not confer the right to representation. Everyone present in the US has the responsibility to obey its laws, whether they agree with those laws or not. Someone who has spent years defying US law does not deserve special consideration after '5, 10, or 20 years'. What seems unfair and unAmerican is allowing a large group of people to essentially ignore laws we require others to respect.
Paying taxes in itself does not confer the right to representation. Everyone present in the US has the responsibility to obey its laws, whether they agree with those laws or not. Someone who has spent years defying US law does not deserve special consideration after '5, 10, or 20 years'. What seems unfair and unAmerican is allowing a large group of people to essentially ignore laws we require others to respect.
11
My mother (a white woman) went to live with my step father in Mexico (who came to America illegally from Mexico). The day after her visa expired for her to be in Mexico, the Mexican government was at her door, threatening to deport her back to America. She had just had my little sister, who was less than a month old at the the authorities came knocking at my mom's door. If Mexico treats Americans this way, why should America to make accommodations for Mexican citizens who come to our country illegally? Mexico does not extend this same arm to America. And, for good reason in my opinion. There is no point in having laws if people are allowed to break them and then be accommodated for doing so.
14
I mean its a very sad story, and i am very sorry for this people. But why would you wanna make babies here if you know that you can get kicked out at any time, and you will live in poverty as a second class society here for the rest of your life? Not quite a rational choice.
But again, i am very sorry for them. They are very hard working, honest and nice people, and maybe they deserve to be here more than some lazy, fat, ignorant natives. I hope they will get their situations resolved one day.
But again, i am very sorry for them. They are very hard working, honest and nice people, and maybe they deserve to be here more than some lazy, fat, ignorant natives. I hope they will get their situations resolved one day.
11
Why? Because as long as we continue to have the lunacy of Birthright Citizenship, children born here, all children, are US citizens and they are eligible for all manner of entitlements from birth. In fact, the US taxpayer pays for the birth. And the US citizen kids, if not "anchors", are impediments to deporting the illegal parents. Heard all the bleating about "separating families"?
16
One the comments mentioned about citizens sponsoring and waiting for a very, very long time. same situation here. sponsored a close relative legally in 2004 paying close to $200 in petition fees. approved but no date for immigrant visa. was advised USCIS is working on 2001 petitions NOW. NYT supports path to citizenship to people who broke the law by jumping the line; by that arguement, then my relatives should have long become citizens, and heck congressman/congresswoman. I say people waiting in line for a very long time should be first given citizenship and voting rights from here and then we can talk about others. Would NYT appreciate if someone goes to a newstand and pays for one NYT paper and removes all the rest of the papers for others to read for free outside the news stand. NYT will file police complaint saying that person broke the law. Either you enforce laws or you don't.
49
The other day the NYT ran an article on Donald Trump's "legally dubious" tax returns. It basically implied that Trump bend the law so far that he broke it, and should be punished in the court of public opinion.
Now today the NYT runs an article on two girls, who are here illegal, actually breaking the law and seeking in the court of public opinion that they should be allowed to stay.
Do we have laws in this country anymore? Do they matter? Or is everything just an editorial and people emotionally making decisions on the fly?
Now today the NYT runs an article on two girls, who are here illegal, actually breaking the law and seeking in the court of public opinion that they should be allowed to stay.
Do we have laws in this country anymore? Do they matter? Or is everything just an editorial and people emotionally making decisions on the fly?
65
Any minor undocumented immigrant who has not been convicted of a crime and who graduates from high school should be allowed to enroll in college as an in-state student and also be allowed to apply for U. S. citizenship, including Aracely and Dalia.
11
How are things at the Stalingrad Station in Paris?
17
Absolutely not. No amnesty for the brats of illegals!
5
Paint it any way you like ---- the results are still the same. We are supposed to be a nation of laws. When you supersede the laws to allow people to come just because they want to without any respect for these laws it's taking a country into lawlessness. The problem starts at the top with Obama deciding which laws to enforce and then making new laws to situations he wants to change. Go home and get in line like everyone else or there won't be a decent country to call home.
41
I feel sorry for these girls, they are innocent. They were brought to the US by parents and didn't do anything illegal. What their parents did was illegal. Because they are not illegal I assume they do not pay taxes or pay into social security. If they can't get a drivers license I assume they don't have car insurance (If wrong, I apologize, but if correct, the girls are not adding to our overburdened system. I am very much middle class. I pay taxes, I pay for car insurance and health insurance. My taxes paid to educate my kids. Did my taxes pay to educate these two girls? That is not fair. I feel sorry for them, but it is not fair. As hard as everyone in my family works we get no help, not a dime, not even a low interest student loan for my kids college. We pay full price. Period. My 93 year old aunt qualified for no help what so ever as she got older. She was not a rich women. We in the middle class do not qualify for anything. We pay. We pay for people like Donald Trump, who has lawyers and accountants helping him wheedle out of taxes and use bankruptcy to make money, and we pay for illegal immigrants. As a middle class American, I cannot afford to help the girls...nor can I afford to keep financing the shenanigans of Donald "I'll take advantage any way I can" Trump. Frankly, if I had a choice between keeping the girls and ditching the Donald, I'd give his citizenship to the two girls, who seem honest, hard-working and decent (the polar opposite of the Donald.)
16
They are not model citizens because they are not citizens.
Signed:
Proud Legal Naturalized Citizen of the United States
(tired of the NYT blindness on this issue)
PS: Hillary's support for amnesty will be her undoing.
Signed:
Proud Legal Naturalized Citizen of the United States
(tired of the NYT blindness on this issue)
PS: Hillary's support for amnesty will be her undoing.
79
Did you even read the article? One of them is a citizen.
1
"We talked about the marginalization of the Latino community, the creation of the Latino identity, how it’s very America-centric. People in Latin America don’t consider themselves Latinos. They just say they’re from wherever country they’re from."
Mix Tejanos, Argentinians and Peruvians in the same pot. Create a fake identity called "Latino". Get Latinos to define themselves as "Brown" instead of "Honduran", even if both parents are German. Create dumb monolithic "Latino voter block" along Latino race lines. Let Latinos watch telenovelas after voting.
Mix Tejanos, Argentinians and Peruvians in the same pot. Create a fake identity called "Latino". Get Latinos to define themselves as "Brown" instead of "Honduran", even if both parents are German. Create dumb monolithic "Latino voter block" along Latino race lines. Let Latinos watch telenovelas after voting.
16
Huh?
2
Truly. And the third story untold here is of formerly culturally cohesive white communities like those up in Minnesota where so many descendants of Norwegian and Swedish settler carved out communities with strong ethnic ties and then sneer at them as "white bread" Americans and shove immigrants in until those communities are nicely replaced by the left's favored color, brown.
26
"Create dumb monolithic "Latino voter block" along Latino race lines."
Given our draconian immigration policies (e.g., dividing up families) and the demonization of all Spanish-speaking immigrants from the Americas, it doesn't seem dumb at all. Banding together for self-defense actually seems pretty smart and pretty natural. And it's happened throughout our history.
Given our draconian immigration policies (e.g., dividing up families) and the demonization of all Spanish-speaking immigrants from the Americas, it doesn't seem dumb at all. Banding together for self-defense actually seems pretty smart and pretty natural. And it's happened throughout our history.
1
I feel sad for both girls as they had no control over their immigration status. It's these individuals you would expect some flexibility from the government regarding rules and regulations of legal status. When we think of immigrants and migrants, we don't picture these two bright young individuals. While I would like to see our immigration rules followed (they're not currently being adhered to), I would hope we can find a way to allow young immigrants like Aracely and Dalia to fulfill their dreams of succeeding in America.
4
You would think from the nyts articles, that every illegal was a potential phd, charitable volunteer, Nobel candidate whale saving humanitarian and everybody in the u.s. was selfishly hoarding all our resources for our own greedy racist purposes. Perhaps a few articles about: crime, social costs, economic costs, environmental costs, unemployed citizens and why if illegal immigration is the best thing that ever happened to the u.s. there doesn't seem to be a bit of evidence to support it. Your distorted, PC views only harden people's positions instead of informing them.
58
Every illegal isn't a phd, but neither is every one a rapist. Plenty of legals are phds, and plenty of legals are rapists. They're all human beings, some are better tham others.
My point is, that we could be informed on this issue by fact driven articles. Not one offs about potential lawyers or 5 time deported murders. Like it or not, the issue of immigration has to be based on numbers, facts and studies. Most of which are lacking in this debate.
7
I am not sympathetic to the women's plights. At 21 they have known they were violating immigration laws for years and did nothing (except hope for amnesty/forgiveness.) I did not see where Dalia was born or clarity of her immigration status but if she's concerned, ... It suggests not a legal resident. And Williams College "a private liberal arts college located in Williamstown, Massachusetts" with tuition of $50,000. Whew. I don't know what the answer is but it's certainly not 'legalizing' however many lawbreakers are here illegally. The numbers were reported as high as 30 million 3 years ago and now is reported around 10 million. I just don't know how many illegals the American taxpayer can support. And the proposed 'paths to citizenship', ... Absolutely ridiculous; simply a stalling tactic. Legal employees couldn't meet the documentary hurdles no less when many are (day) laborers without US bank accounts. I guess the answer is to enforce American laws and change them when indicated for the benefit of Americans (not foreign born lawbreakers.)
33
How many US citizens can go to WIlliams or would like to go but do have the money. They are hard working and great young people. What about them?
6
I feel sympathy for both these young women and I appreciate how difficult it must have been for them, especially as they had no choice in their situation.
However, it is important to note that the root of their situation doesn't lie with the US or with any kind of racism, it lies with their parent's decision to enter the country illegally.
They might have though it was for the best (and they may very well be right) but it doesn't change the fact that they were the one who put their children in this difficult situation of being torn between two countries and having tenuous legal footing to stand on in the country they inhabit.
However, it is important to note that the root of their situation doesn't lie with the US or with any kind of racism, it lies with their parent's decision to enter the country illegally.
They might have though it was for the best (and they may very well be right) but it doesn't change the fact that they were the one who put their children in this difficult situation of being torn between two countries and having tenuous legal footing to stand on in the country they inhabit.
26
I do feel a lot of sympathy for these young women. The difficult core of the issue is many children were brought here illegally, they do not know any other home, and yet they cannot obtain legal status without some kind of legislation. While I don't like rewarding illegal activity, we have to be realistic - we simply are not going to be able to deport 11 million people, and a reasonable solution needs to be found. Conservatives also do not want to focus on this truth: if people were unable to find employment, the level of illegal immigration would probably decrease significantly. However, the focus continues to be on the illegal behavior of the immigrant and NOT on the ILLEGAL behavior of the EMPLOYER. Commenters generally focus on the immigrant's illegal act - but not on the fact that they are able to readily find work. We also benefit from illegal labor - especially in service, construction and agriculture. While conservatives and others decry the jobs they take, they don't seem too interested in discussing the fact that businesses often can pay lower wages and offer fewer benefits, thus increasing profits. The consumer also benefits from this. While there are costs to illegal immigration, most economic studies show they do not out way the economic benefits. Conservatives are really disingenuous because they know that business benefits, but they don't want to admit it to their constituents.
6
We don't realize how good we have it here in America - we're spoiled. I'm sure if some of us - all of us - lived in a country not as free as our own, we would want to get out, too. Many of us believe that we only have one life to live, so we should have the opportunity to make the best out of it, get ourselves out of dire conditions and make the best out of our one opportunity we have to live a meaningful life.
I watch people everyday at my own job take advantage of workplace policies, treat each other terribly, and lose their jobs over meaningless issues. I watch other people work our own unemployment and disability systems so they don't have to go to work and can collect "free" money from the government. Both of these ladies aren't looking to do that, from the interviews here. They're actually looking to make a place for themselves in this world and contribute something meaningful to society - that's a lot more than what some Americans bring to the table.
For that, I applaud these women and I don't resent the fact that they came here undocumented. Instead, I celebrate the fact that they're working the best that they can right now to support themselves, make a place for themselves in this world, and enjoy what they're doing in life. And who cares if they just so happen to be on American soil - this is where they want to be, and we shouldn't discriminate against them because of where they were born or whether or not they are a US citizen.
I watch people everyday at my own job take advantage of workplace policies, treat each other terribly, and lose their jobs over meaningless issues. I watch other people work our own unemployment and disability systems so they don't have to go to work and can collect "free" money from the government. Both of these ladies aren't looking to do that, from the interviews here. They're actually looking to make a place for themselves in this world and contribute something meaningful to society - that's a lot more than what some Americans bring to the table.
For that, I applaud these women and I don't resent the fact that they came here undocumented. Instead, I celebrate the fact that they're working the best that they can right now to support themselves, make a place for themselves in this world, and enjoy what they're doing in life. And who cares if they just so happen to be on American soil - this is where they want to be, and we shouldn't discriminate against them because of where they were born or whether or not they are a US citizen.
4
We need to be compassionate and mindful of our history. So, a path to citizenship for those who came as minors and a path to legal residency for others is warranted. We also need to have a full review of our legal immigration policies to speed up the process to a maximum of one year, say, from the date an application is filed. Let's keep America the greatest!
1
Both of their situations are touching- and they can go achieve their dreams in their own country. THEIR PARENTS are at fault...not the United States And not Donald trump- America cannot afford to take care of the world. We need to get a hold of illegal immigration and work on restoring pride to America- 'not letting in hundreds of thousands of people who treat our country as a hotel - not caring at all to assimilate or god forbid adopt our culture And values.
37
did you read both stories? one of them is in fact a citizen who has voted.
1
There is value to citizenship that must be respected.
Illegally crossing our borders devalues those privileges and rights.
And those who choose to break our laws don't deserve the benefits.
Illegally crossing our borders devalues those privileges and rights.
And those who choose to break our laws don't deserve the benefits.
52
What you have to understand is that for the people pushing these stories, almost all of whom are closeted "Open Borders" enthusiasts, it is precisely the idea of "citizenship" that has to be destroyed. That is the first step to dismantling the nation-state. Do not kid yourself for a moment that that is not their ultimate goal.
21
I sympathize deeply with these young women and their families. I recommend that they both consult with immigration attorneys. Aracely does have some options that are available to her which can lead to lawful permanent residence. And Dalia's mom might also qualify for relief based upon her domestic violence history.
I support reform of the immigration laws. Where people without status have been living peacefully, working, providing for their families and paying taxes in this country, they should be able to qualify for lawful status in this country. Let's continue this discussion by stating our beliefs without criticizing our fellow readers.
I support reform of the immigration laws. Where people without status have been living peacefully, working, providing for their families and paying taxes in this country, they should be able to qualify for lawful status in this country. Let's continue this discussion by stating our beliefs without criticizing our fellow readers.
6
Jessica, these people do have a status: Illegal.
14
Why should people who break our laws have any rights here at all? FYI, most illegals work off the books. Making them legal would only allow them to completely avoid paying any taxes as they would qualify for the EITC.
4
I'm waiting for the true picture of Mexico in all its fullness, not the constant stories about people south of the border fleeing. Even the Times itself reported recently that fewer Mexicans are trying to enter the U.S. than leave the U.S. and return to Mexico. Unemployment in Mexico is around 4%. It's a country that's often glamorous with a rising middle class. Lots of new SUV's and often luxury cars. There's a familycentric optimism to everyday life there that hasn't existed in the U.S. since the 1970's. Even Mexicans who may prefer to work for dollars in the U.S. as opposed to pesos in Mexico know that lots of apps are no substitute for the intimate and relaxed lifestyle people enjoy in places like Mexico City, Guadalajara, San Miguel de Allende -- none of which are resort towns, are actually quite urbane places where you'll find more bookstores and better coffee shops than in New York.
16
So here you go, why do they leave Mexico.
2
Dalia attends Williams College, a private college. She refers to "gifted" as "whatever that means." We all know what it means, it means she's smart. And she is attending Williams, and will do very well in life, unlike some of us who aren't gifted or wealthy, but just average. She is doing well - and that is what I glean from the interview. Her parents should be very proud - and happy.
3
what if the law were like this: Either you get straight A's and into a top college like Williams or you get deported. I'm quite serious. It would be merit-based citizenship.
I think it's problematic when you introduce a Williams student as an example. I understand why it's done, but does it have to be the highest ranked small college in the USA?
Would everybody feel the same way if the young lady were heading to Arizona State University or Cal State Long Beach?
What about merit-based citizenship? That's the basic idea behind increasing the estate tax. But who decides what constitutes sufficient merit?
I think it's problematic when you introduce a Williams student as an example. I understand why it's done, but does it have to be the highest ranked small college in the USA?
Would everybody feel the same way if the young lady were heading to Arizona State University or Cal State Long Beach?
What about merit-based citizenship? That's the basic idea behind increasing the estate tax. But who decides what constitutes sufficient merit?
Her parents are happy that their violation of US immigration laws seems to working just as planned. Williams College should be ashamed that they rather admit someone who broke the law than a better, more qualified American student. Perhaps if US Research grants are taken away from Williams they will stop being a "sanctuary College".
7
These two women are our future! As an Arizona resident with three young daughters, these two stories touch me deeply. I would believe that anyone with compassion would feel the same way - regardless of your financial station or political affiliation. AZ conservative politics has been so protectionist and backward thinking - Sherrif Arpio and ex Goverrner Brewer are two prominent examples of impeding the inevitable future.
6
If violators of US laws are our future we are definitely in trouble.
31
Umm come next Tuesday, a violator of US laws will be the incumbent president, so, no question but we are in trouble.
3
^^ I'm waiting to hear at what point these ladies violated laws. Pick an age.
Arizona is not the best state
to welcome those who immigrate.
The color of skin
determines the spin
of what is to be your own fate.
to welcome those who immigrate.
The color of skin
determines the spin
of what is to be your own fate.
4
Like some, I ask would illegal immigrants serve in the military if given the chance? If so, they can earn citizenship. What about nurses caring for the "greatest generation" now firmly ensconced in nursing homes all around? What about food servers and harvesters working to put steak and fish and chicken (and vegetables) on our respective plates?
If you contribute to the organization (USA, USA!) you get to be a member in good standing until and unless criminal behavior is proven (not civil walking across imaginary lines).
My ancestors came here both legally and illegally, all in poverty and equipped mainly with hope and ambition. We all contribute - we all share the destiny. Citizenship is what you do, not a piece of paper.
If you contribute to the organization (USA, USA!) you get to be a member in good standing until and unless criminal behavior is proven (not civil walking across imaginary lines).
My ancestors came here both legally and illegally, all in poverty and equipped mainly with hope and ambition. We all contribute - we all share the destiny. Citizenship is what you do, not a piece of paper.
13
See Hal, thats the problem with your logic. Citizenship IS a piece of paper, its a process that someone goes through to become a legal citizen of the U.S. Just because you decided to walk across a border and harvest vegetables should not give you access to all the benefits the other citizens in this country have.
23
[[hal florida
Like some, I ask would illegal immigrants serve in the military if given the chance? If so, they can earn citizenship.]]
Soooooo…you'd put the defense of the nation in the hands of people who were not born here?
Interesting
Like some, I ask would illegal immigrants serve in the military if given the chance? If so, they can earn citizenship.]]
Soooooo…you'd put the defense of the nation in the hands of people who were not born here?
Interesting
5
"Citizenship is what you do, not a piece of paper."
Exactly
Exactly
Unfortunately, even though you are a bright, intelligent young woman, you are not a legal citizen of this country. That means you do not pay taxes, or pay in to social security. Therefore, you don't exist in the system.
It is not this girl's fault, the blame is on her parents. You can't immigrate here illegally, and expect to have everything legal citizens have. Your parents knew that, and they came here anyway. Unfortunately, this girl is paying for her parents' mistake. That's what happens when you jump the line and don't file proper paperwork.
Your parents set you up for failure, whatever their reasons may have been. That's the chance they took in bringing you here and not following through with everything legally. I am a Democrat, through and through, but you can't just show up here in this country and expect to have the same courtesies afforded to you that are afforded to legal immigrants and citizens. Your story is awful, and you don't deserve what is happening in your life, but that's what happens when you are illegal. Tell your parents to fix their mistake, if they even can at this point.
It is not this girl's fault, the blame is on her parents. You can't immigrate here illegally, and expect to have everything legal citizens have. Your parents knew that, and they came here anyway. Unfortunately, this girl is paying for her parents' mistake. That's what happens when you jump the line and don't file proper paperwork.
Your parents set you up for failure, whatever their reasons may have been. That's the chance they took in bringing you here and not following through with everything legally. I am a Democrat, through and through, but you can't just show up here in this country and expect to have the same courtesies afforded to you that are afforded to legal immigrants and citizens. Your story is awful, and you don't deserve what is happening in your life, but that's what happens when you are illegal. Tell your parents to fix their mistake, if they even can at this point.
79
You do realize that most 'illegal' immigrants _do_ pay taxes and social security, they just can't collect it. That is more than Trump has done, does that mean he shouldn't be a citizen?
3
I do pay taxes, I do contribute to Social Security. I might never see a penny of that back but I have work authorization in this country. My parents might not have done things the right way, but in the end they gave me a better life than I would have had had they stayed in my native country. This country is my country and that doesn't change, no matter how it came to be.
6
"That means you do not pay taxes, or pay in to social security."
This is a patently false statement for most undocumented workers. In fact, taxes and social security are taken out of their paychecks, but they will never see the benefit. The SSA chief affirmed that undocumented workers paid $12 Billion into the system. (Lower estimates are at about $7B). And they obviously pay sales and property taxes as well.
This is a patently false statement for most undocumented workers. In fact, taxes and social security are taken out of their paychecks, but they will never see the benefit. The SSA chief affirmed that undocumented workers paid $12 Billion into the system. (Lower estimates are at about $7B). And they obviously pay sales and property taxes as well.
6
For many of the illegal immigrants crossing the border daily from Mexico and Central America, Spanish is a second language and they are illiterate in every language they speak. Some come from indigenous communities without a history of written language, and their children require far more than "bilingual education" in order to be prepared for today's competitive world.
I was horrified, this summer, living in a place with no shortage of citizens used to manual labor jobs, that my building's carpeting was replaced by people speaking Spanish, including one kid who looked under the age of legal employment. I said nothing. Who wants to set off the inquiry that perhaps leads to unforeseen tragedy for someone? Such matters must be handled on the governmental level.
Every employer will use the cheapest labor he can get his hands on, if he can get his hands on a steady supply. Believe me, up here white people do work in hotel housekeeping and crop picking and dishwashing. I see them. They need those jobs and don't want to lose them to some underage kid who'll accept whatever you feel like paying.
I was horrified, this summer, living in a place with no shortage of citizens used to manual labor jobs, that my building's carpeting was replaced by people speaking Spanish, including one kid who looked under the age of legal employment. I said nothing. Who wants to set off the inquiry that perhaps leads to unforeseen tragedy for someone? Such matters must be handled on the governmental level.
Every employer will use the cheapest labor he can get his hands on, if he can get his hands on a steady supply. Believe me, up here white people do work in hotel housekeeping and crop picking and dishwashing. I see them. They need those jobs and don't want to lose them to some underage kid who'll accept whatever you feel like paying.
38
Seems you are easily horrified.
Just because they were speaking Spanish does not mean they were illegal.
Just because people are "white" doesn't mean they are legal.
Just because they were speaking Spanish does not mean they were illegal.
Just because people are "white" doesn't mean they are legal.
4
People willing to move to progress are a gift to any society. They are crucial to grow. They are usually risk takers, and hard working. I am now reading a book about early Roman history. Rome was, from the very beginning, open to foreigners. It outlasted, conquered, and bested all its contemporary city states (i.e.Athens, Carthage) and existing monarchies to become an empire that lasted for one and a half millennia). The states conquered and bested were very protective of their national mores and set in privileges. They were obliterated.
7
Aracely's story put me in tears. How sad to see the aspirations and dreams of a young girl fade away regardless of her hard work and great grades in High school. What had she done wrong to deserve such consequences? Aracely please hang in there and don't loose hope. God will bring you justice, God's willing.
4
You should be crying for American citizens and not economic opportunists who skirt our laws.
17
I am very glad to hear of the decency and intelligence of these young women. But that they should be in the United States when there are tens of millions of young women named Oksana, Hanan, Francoise, Fanta, Phuong, Sarah, and Abeba who are waiting in line in their own countries around the world, praying that they hit the .003% chance of winning the Green Card lottery... Well, that's just not the American way. It's unfair. We need to fix it. Don't send Arecely and Dalia home, but shut down all future immigration from their country (and others that are prime sites of illegal immigration) for 15 or 20 years, and give the rest of the world a chance.
56
or change the draconian and broken quota system that neither works for human beings or american employers thirsty for labor.
1
1) Shutting down immigration from certain countries wouldn't be the solution either. People and their children would continue to cross the border and live in the shadows. 2) Why be so shocked that these women are decent and intelligent?
1
No, send them home.
4
I fell terrible for these young ladies. They both sound like people with a lot of potential. But countries have laws and they have borders. Where does it stop? Why not just say everyone who wants to come to the US can come? We would have an influx of 2 billion people overnight!!
People who want citizenship for their children and themselves should follow the laws of our country. What about all the people who apply and go through the system LEGALLY to come here and be citizens? They are doing things the right way, but then there are others who don't think they need to bother.
We cannot continue to reward unfettered, lawless immigration. ENOUGH. Enforce the laws that we have.
People who want citizenship for their children and themselves should follow the laws of our country. What about all the people who apply and go through the system LEGALLY to come here and be citizens? They are doing things the right way, but then there are others who don't think they need to bother.
We cannot continue to reward unfettered, lawless immigration. ENOUGH. Enforce the laws that we have.
40
No child should be relegated to a hopeless life surrounded by poverty, crime or even war, just because they were born on a certain point on the globe. Likewise, no child should be elevated to King or Queen status due to some hereditary bloodline established by conquering a group of people long ago.
We are all born equal human beings no matter where we are.
That being said, there has to be some system of advancement once a person crosses one of these imaginary lines devised on a piece of paper. They have every right like all of us to seek happiness or just basically to survive. If they can prove themselves to follow the laws and work hard and honorably, then papers should be granted after a set amount of time. ( maybe a decade )
I am sure all sorts of vitriol will be flung after this comment, because frankly so many have the mentality of ; '' what's mine is mine and I am going to guard it against you '' . FIne , but consider one last thing.
What if the world needed to come together to save humanity and that were only possible if we all worked together ? Nationality did not factor in .
Would you worry about an imaginary line on a map then ?
Would you worry about the color of their skin then ?
Would you worry about papers then ?
Don't be so sure it isn't coming. Think water.
We are all born equal human beings no matter where we are.
That being said, there has to be some system of advancement once a person crosses one of these imaginary lines devised on a piece of paper. They have every right like all of us to seek happiness or just basically to survive. If they can prove themselves to follow the laws and work hard and honorably, then papers should be granted after a set amount of time. ( maybe a decade )
I am sure all sorts of vitriol will be flung after this comment, because frankly so many have the mentality of ; '' what's mine is mine and I am going to guard it against you '' . FIne , but consider one last thing.
What if the world needed to come together to save humanity and that were only possible if we all worked together ? Nationality did not factor in .
Would you worry about an imaginary line on a map then ?
Would you worry about the color of their skin then ?
Would you worry about papers then ?
Don't be so sure it isn't coming. Think water.
9
I lived in the Northeast of the U.S. for virtually all of my life including over 40 years in Western New York, but for the past three and a half years my home is in Arizona (Marana is just northwest of Tucson).
In Southern Arizona, the border is both real and exceptionally artificial. Our area is sometimes referred to as Baja Arizona, the part of Arizona that became part of the U.S. with the Gasden Purchase. Another way of saying that is that our area, all of it, was once part of Mexico and the culture of our area, going back thousands of years is heavily influenced by Native American/Hispanic culture.
We do incalculable harm when we fail to recognize how artificial that border actually is and when we try to punish people who have come to our state to work hard and to provide for a better life for themselves and for their children.
We must not be breaking up families and we must provide immediate and fair paths to citizenship for those who wish it. We must be healing, not continuing to punish.
In Southern Arizona, the border is both real and exceptionally artificial. Our area is sometimes referred to as Baja Arizona, the part of Arizona that became part of the U.S. with the Gasden Purchase. Another way of saying that is that our area, all of it, was once part of Mexico and the culture of our area, going back thousands of years is heavily influenced by Native American/Hispanic culture.
We do incalculable harm when we fail to recognize how artificial that border actually is and when we try to punish people who have come to our state to work hard and to provide for a better life for themselves and for their children.
We must not be breaking up families and we must provide immediate and fair paths to citizenship for those who wish it. We must be healing, not continuing to punish.
8
There is a legal way to enter the United States. Laws are in effect for a reason & should not be broken. I work with several immigrants, who have all come to the US legally. One has to return to his homeland each year, to renew his work visa. He is currently in the process of becoming a US citizen. The Dream Act made me upset, because I don't feel that the children of illegal immigrants should be given taxpayer money to attend college. My daughter is thousands of dollars in debt, due to student loans. My husband & I will be working well past our retirement age, to ensure that credit card debt (incurred to help our daughter, as well) is paid off & our pensions/retirement funds are not siphoned from by private banks to pay back her loans. We work long hours & make enough money to pay our bills, living in NY. To some, we may seem wealthy, but, there is no room for extras & my American Dream has been deferred. I applaud these two young women for applying their intellects & getting good grades. But, being on scholarship to attend college, while not being here legally... I don't think so.
91
I don't understand your thinking. My husband and I are mired in college debt. We are not young and are still paying off the debts. I also lost my good-paying job years ago to an H-1B worker and have not found permanent employment since. Soon we will have to put three kids through college too. I have no idea how we will pull it off.
But this does not mean that I want Aracely, Dalia and other young people like them to suffer. I hope all qualified, hard-working students can get an education without forfeiting their future earnings. I can't understand the race to the bottom mentality. If this next generation gets ahead, it will benefit us all.
But this does not mean that I want Aracely, Dalia and other young people like them to suffer. I hope all qualified, hard-working students can get an education without forfeiting their future earnings. I can't understand the race to the bottom mentality. If this next generation gets ahead, it will benefit us all.
4
Shouldn't college be more affordable for everyone? The problem of rising college costs and decreasing job opportunities can not be laid at the feet of illegal immigrants( and there is no functional legal way the immigrant labor our country desperately needs can come into the country, until there is any talk of illegal immigration is a poor cover for racism/discrimination) The one scholarship for her education would not have applied to your daughter in most cases.. Open your view.. don't fall into the age old politics of division, and scarcity
2
"An unjust law is not law at all."
-Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
-Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
Why would anyone want to deport these two young women?
They have hopes and dreams that are essentially American, that embrace the values our nation of immigrants holds dear.
Don't forget, we conquered and incorporated part of Mexico into the United States. Millions of people didn't move across this border, the border moved on them. Do we as Americans expect that people simply drop all these human ties? What does that say about the values of some Americans, other than that they compete for human rights low points with places like North Korea? We're better than that.
If the border were truly open, then there would be no need to worry about papers, they would simply be accepted here as anyone else is. Taking US workers' jobs? That is so rare it's almost unheard of. People who come here like this do the jobs most Americans are unwilling to do even if they need a job.
So what's the beef? They have the wrong color skin? Basically, as racism is at the root of the hatred that drives the regretful legislation such as that passed in Arizona in recent years. If it wasn't for the lame and regrettable Supreme Court, such laws would stand legal scrutiny no better than a referendum to mark water fountains as "white" and "colored."
We should be more tolerant of people and less tolerant of racism if we really want the American Dream to flourish.
They have hopes and dreams that are essentially American, that embrace the values our nation of immigrants holds dear.
Don't forget, we conquered and incorporated part of Mexico into the United States. Millions of people didn't move across this border, the border moved on them. Do we as Americans expect that people simply drop all these human ties? What does that say about the values of some Americans, other than that they compete for human rights low points with places like North Korea? We're better than that.
If the border were truly open, then there would be no need to worry about papers, they would simply be accepted here as anyone else is. Taking US workers' jobs? That is so rare it's almost unheard of. People who come here like this do the jobs most Americans are unwilling to do even if they need a job.
So what's the beef? They have the wrong color skin? Basically, as racism is at the root of the hatred that drives the regretful legislation such as that passed in Arizona in recent years. If it wasn't for the lame and regrettable Supreme Court, such laws would stand legal scrutiny no better than a referendum to mark water fountains as "white" and "colored."
We should be more tolerant of people and less tolerant of racism if we really want the American Dream to flourish.
4
Because they are criminals.
16
I am black and white. My step father is an illegal immigrant. When he was deported, my mother sent me to live with him in Mexico for six months. My step father actually did beat my mother and sexually abuse me (I don't believe at all that this is how all Mexicans are. I loved living in Mexico so much as a child I cried and didn't want to come home. I am solely noting that is who my step father is.)
As a human, I have compassion on these two women. As someone who is in my early 20's, in graduate school, and trying to make a better life for myself, I feel frustrated alongside them for their difficulties. However, as a law abiding citizen, I can't help but to lack compassion due to the fact that laws were broken that put them in these situations. Had their parents not broken laws and then they were in this situation purely due to discrimination, that would be completely different to me. But that is not the case here. As an American, who pays almost $2,000 in taxes a month, if I break the law, there will be no leniency extended to me. I would have to bear the consequences of my actions. These unfortunately are the consequences when people enter this country illegally. My brother and sisters share the same American mother with me. We have different fathers (theirs being the illegal Mexican). My siblings are my life and my heart. I have no grievances with the country of Mexico or Mexicans. Again, I just feel strongly that when you break the law, any law, there are consequences.
As a human, I have compassion on these two women. As someone who is in my early 20's, in graduate school, and trying to make a better life for myself, I feel frustrated alongside them for their difficulties. However, as a law abiding citizen, I can't help but to lack compassion due to the fact that laws were broken that put them in these situations. Had their parents not broken laws and then they were in this situation purely due to discrimination, that would be completely different to me. But that is not the case here. As an American, who pays almost $2,000 in taxes a month, if I break the law, there will be no leniency extended to me. I would have to bear the consequences of my actions. These unfortunately are the consequences when people enter this country illegally. My brother and sisters share the same American mother with me. We have different fathers (theirs being the illegal Mexican). My siblings are my life and my heart. I have no grievances with the country of Mexico or Mexicans. Again, I just feel strongly that when you break the law, any law, there are consequences.
43
Are all laws equally just? History says no. Immigration laws are essential racist, and there for unjust. There is no feasible legal remedy, until there is one in place(common sense immigration reform including a guest worker program) then any talk of illegal immigration is just a poor cover for racism or discrimination (based on the source, as anyone without institutional power, can not be racist).
Actually, my ancestors from Scotland were totally illegal! I don't know how much land they took from the true americans, but definitely enough to get a good start. And later on, my grandmother "renamed" her hired help because she didn't have the patience ... decency?? to find out what their real names were. So we knew Menley as Menley but when Gone with theWind came out, they realized she was a "Melanie". Hispanics were not an issue back then. I see more the problem of Americans not making the most of their lives - high school diploma, doing night school, trade school ..whatever it takes to advance yourself instead of blaming your troubles on "the immigrants". The immigrants - legal and illegal - are just plain hungry for a new life and are willing to seriously work for it, whatever it takes. ..which is hard work. These ladies here ..wow!! I sure hope they make it; they seem smart, willing, want to be successful citizens. Can we say that about a lot of "real" Americans?
14
There are no "true" American. The natives crossed over from Asia.
6
This made me cry. Both sisters deserve an education.
5
Pass DAPA. This is the very least we can do. But consider this. The plight of undocumented youths is little different from that of youths trapped in our inner cities. They stop striving, dreaming when reality hits them in the face.
8
Two bright, hard-working, energetic young women. The kind of people that made America great. The kind of people that America needs to remain great.
If the nattering nabobs of negativity in Washington can't figure out how to keep young people like these, then America will start suffering a brain drain. Provide a supplemental path for those who have invested sweat equity in becoming a citizen.
For Aracely, I'd suggest that she cast her net far and wide and look for international scholarships to schools in South America or Europe. She speaks two languages which is one more than most Americans. Her talents will be appreciated.
If the nattering nabobs of negativity in Washington can't figure out how to keep young people like these, then America will start suffering a brain drain. Provide a supplemental path for those who have invested sweat equity in becoming a citizen.
For Aracely, I'd suggest that she cast her net far and wide and look for international scholarships to schools in South America or Europe. She speaks two languages which is one more than most Americans. Her talents will be appreciated.
8
Aah, yes, more tear-jerking stories of the Dreamers, of course. What else can one expect from NYT and its "activist journalism"?!
First, I am in support of putting illegals who came here as minors on a path to legalization to permanent residency -- but NOT citizenship. Thus, they will have all the benefits EXCEPT the right to vote or sponsor their parents and relatives for U.S. residency.
Second, the rest of the illegal residents with clean records would be put on path to permanent residency (NEVER citizenship) IF AND ONLY IF simultaneous legislation is passed to dismantle the power of the illegal-immigrant industrial complex (or which NYT is a part), consisting of the agriculture, hotel and construction industries which we subsidize through their dependence on illegal immigrant labor. This means extremely debilitating punishment for companies using illegal immigrant labor.
I write this as a legal immigrant and naturalized citizen. I sponsored my brother's family for immigration back in 2007. His application was scheduled to be considered in 2019, but has now been arbitrarily pushed back to 2021, probably because of political pressure to divert resources to other immigration priorities. By then, my nephew will be above 21 and cannot be sponsored. So my brother will probably abandon his application. So much for playing by rules in legal immigration. Of course NYT will never do a story on cases like these.
First, I am in support of putting illegals who came here as minors on a path to legalization to permanent residency -- but NOT citizenship. Thus, they will have all the benefits EXCEPT the right to vote or sponsor their parents and relatives for U.S. residency.
Second, the rest of the illegal residents with clean records would be put on path to permanent residency (NEVER citizenship) IF AND ONLY IF simultaneous legislation is passed to dismantle the power of the illegal-immigrant industrial complex (or which NYT is a part), consisting of the agriculture, hotel and construction industries which we subsidize through their dependence on illegal immigrant labor. This means extremely debilitating punishment for companies using illegal immigrant labor.
I write this as a legal immigrant and naturalized citizen. I sponsored my brother's family for immigration back in 2007. His application was scheduled to be considered in 2019, but has now been arbitrarily pushed back to 2021, probably because of political pressure to divert resources to other immigration priorities. By then, my nephew will be above 21 and cannot be sponsored. So my brother will probably abandon his application. So much for playing by rules in legal immigration. Of course NYT will never do a story on cases like these.
82
I never used to support a two tier system like guest worker programs, but if no one will enforce our laws or our borders, this is the only solution for illegals, assuming we won't put the time and money into summary deportations.
3
Priority dates on the State Department's Visa Bulletin shift all the time, because of the large number of people stuck in the pipeline and the formula used to determine per country quota. Having gone through the immigration process I know it all too well. If the goal is to selectively admitting immigrants with higher level of education or specific skills, I believe that F4 category (immigrant visa for siblings of US citizens) should be eliminated entirely, while other categories of family-based immigration should be curtailed. While your brother may well be highly educated/skilled, on average immigrants admitted on the basis of "family reunion" are not. I am saying this as an immigrant and a naturalized citizen.
4
I hate taking in families just because families. When my ancestors came over, the only ones who could come were the few, the young and the strong. There was no ability to bring over a gazillion more people just because. Your nephew might be fabulous; if so, he could come on his own merits. We might need a doctor; we do not need the doctor's deadbeat radical religious brother in law, his two wives and his 15 kids.
4
Aracely, PLEASE don't give up on your dreams. Ever. I, too, am a woman of color, and I have a daughter who is your age. Although I am a citizen, I can certainly understand many of the issues you face in terms of racial discrimination. You may not hear much about this in Arizona, but there are many of us in this country who feel that young people such as yourself deserve a path to citizenship. We will do what we can to keep people like Donald Trump as far away from the White House as possible. In the meantime, please be careful, stay strong, and whatever you do, don't get pregnant before you have the chance to get an education and resolve your immigration status. It's absolutely none of my business, but the mom in me wants to tell you that at your age, a boyfriend is nothing more than a distraction. And yes, this is what I tell my own daughter, too. It is VERY brave of you to speak to The New York Times. I will keep you in my thoughts.
54
... in terms of racial discrimination ...
Latino is not a race. Latino is not a race.Latino is not a race.Latino is not a race.Latino is not a race.Latino is not a race.Latino is not a race.Latino is not a race.Latino is not a race.Latino is not a race....
How many times must one repeat that?
Latino is not a race. Latino is not a race.Latino is not a race.Latino is not a race.Latino is not a race.Latino is not a race.Latino is not a race.Latino is not a race.Latino is not a race.Latino is not a race....
How many times must one repeat that?
9
Yes, dear Reader, but the boyfriend could be her path to legal residence. Marrying a US citizen is has always been the easiest way to do it. It may not be as sure a thing as it always was, but it still goes a long way.
Another sob story. America has an immigration process in place. Those who think they are above the law, decide they can ignore our laws and come here illegally, need to be detained and then deported. They are a slap in the face to all those persons who are coming here legally and have waited their turn. What needs to be done now is ICE needs to find these two girls and ship them back to mexico where they belong and not let them be allowed to apply to come back here for 10 years.
47
The problem now? 1000 illegals cross the border daily, and there are no jobs for them. Most of these aren't Mexicans. They get absorbed into the welfare state. We have to fix America, create real jobs tens of millions of Americans that can't find jobs. Then we can afford to allow more immigrants into this country without bankrupting our country. Then we can help them fix their own countries because they too, are facing the same problem that we face here. All the jobs have moved to China, Indonesia, etc... What America has become is a catch basin for all these countries with growing populations that don't have jobs for them.
46
Jobs? For deplorables? Deplorables who might expect a living wage? Clutching my pearls, dahling.
5
i robbed a bank but I really really REALLY needed the money and only robbed once
so give me amnesty
else I'll go to jail and sniffle my children will have to hink of me as being in jail sniffle sniffle
so give me amnesty
else I'll go to jail and sniffle my children will have to hink of me as being in jail sniffle sniffle
47
More propaganda from the New York Times. If they are such upright and promising persons, they need to understand that "upright and promising" begins with respecting the laws of the country and not taking them into your own hands. If the latter is the norm we want to function by, murderers should be set free.
84
"Latino immigrants are the backbone of the American economy. They do the hardest work for the lowest wages."
Being able to hire a house cleaner or landscaper for cheap should not be the yardstick by which we judge whether or not law-breaking immigrants deserve to stay in our country.
Being able to hire a house cleaner or landscaper for cheap should not be the yardstick by which we judge whether or not law-breaking immigrants deserve to stay in our country.
132
Hardly the backbone.
2
Yep, they do it because they can't find anything else with their 2 point IQ and illegal status. I love to have a maid, nanny, dishwasher, housekeeper and tomato pickers but then the moment they get legal status, they won't be maid anymore.
What do we do then?
What do we do then?
3
This fetishization of the law is nauseating.
Whatever happened to people caring about justice?
Wouldn't it be more just for Aracely to be afforded the same opportunities as her sister?
Whatever happened to people caring about justice?
Wouldn't it be more just for Aracely to be afforded the same opportunities as her sister?
Reading these stories makes me ask why this is happening after Reagan gave amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants. No one wants to talk about the root cause of this problem. There is a need for undocumented workers in this country so that rogue employers can undercut wages and preserve their profits or compete with those who undercut prices using such illegals. The problem is also exacerbated by global trade which also depresses wages for the middle class and choose cheaper illegal labor in construction, gardening, etc. This perpetual cycle makes sure that the demand for illegals will only grow more, not less, no matter who becomes the President and no matter what amnesty law is passed. If we truly believe that this can be solved, spot checks and HUGE employer fines should deter the employers hiring illegals even through sub-contracts. This would mean higher prices for everything and inflation and hence a phased policy of bringing legalized guest workers to smoothen the transition should ease the pain for both employer and customer.
32
" If we truly believe that this can be solved, spot checks and HUGE employer fines should deter the employers hiring illegals even through sub-contracts."
This spot checks would be called unconstitutional by many progressives in this country.
"The problem is also exacerbated by global trade..."
You're not going to get any relief from that during the next presidency.
This spot checks would be called unconstitutional by many progressives in this country.
"The problem is also exacerbated by global trade..."
You're not going to get any relief from that during the next presidency.
I*d like everyone to be safe, happy, well-educated and comfortably housed. I*d like to start with our own marginalized citizens, such as Native Americans on impoverished reservations, facing the genocide of generations of FAS/FAE.
I*d like to see all marginalized white and black children receiving the spectrum of services that will enable them to graduate HS and enter either college, or the currently non-existent sort of trade schools we used to have, and then have jobs waiting for them.
In my former home, Noo Yawk, my once-lovely neighborhood was destroyed by the turning of single-family homes into what are essentially warrens, cramming single adults or families into every possible space, safe or not. Schools built to handle the population predicated on single-family homes are overwhelmed by children requiring every special service.
Sure, I*ll admit it--my maternal grandparents were illegal immigrants later naturalized during an amnesty. There was plenty of housing available for them at very low rents, and they worked all their lives and took few if any benefits, dying too young, I believe, to get much from Social Security.
Where are jobs, now, for people like my grandparents, who were literate but had to learn English and never went to college? Today is not yesterday.
How about ensuring that every black and Hispanic citizen kid in foster care gets a college degree and an internship towards a decent job, before we wring our hands soulfully over illegal immigrants?
I*d like to see all marginalized white and black children receiving the spectrum of services that will enable them to graduate HS and enter either college, or the currently non-existent sort of trade schools we used to have, and then have jobs waiting for them.
In my former home, Noo Yawk, my once-lovely neighborhood was destroyed by the turning of single-family homes into what are essentially warrens, cramming single adults or families into every possible space, safe or not. Schools built to handle the population predicated on single-family homes are overwhelmed by children requiring every special service.
Sure, I*ll admit it--my maternal grandparents were illegal immigrants later naturalized during an amnesty. There was plenty of housing available for them at very low rents, and they worked all their lives and took few if any benefits, dying too young, I believe, to get much from Social Security.
Where are jobs, now, for people like my grandparents, who were literate but had to learn English and never went to college? Today is not yesterday.
How about ensuring that every black and Hispanic citizen kid in foster care gets a college degree and an internship towards a decent job, before we wring our hands soulfully over illegal immigrants?
36
What about the people who wait years to enter the country legally. They did the right thing yet the NYT seems to elevate the illegals through these sob stories. The moral is if you break the law you have a special place in the hearts of Americans.
107
It is irrelevant if they are model citizens. If I don't pay my taxes & owe, say, $100,000, I dont get to say to the IRS, "But I'm a model citizen." If I steal money from a bank, I don't get to tell the police, "Hey don't arrest me, I'm a model citizen."
They are here illegally. They broke the law.
If I went to any other country illegally without a visa, I would not be surprised if I were deported. That is what I would deserve (best case scenario.)
If you don't like the law, change the law.
What the NYT argues is incoherent logically. Basically it is saying, "It's illegal, but if I break the law and sneak in, then I should become legal." Those who try to become citizens the legal way-- we basically tell them they are suckers.
It's obvious they are no logical supports to the argument, because the NYT keeps trotting out emotional propaganda -- kind good children - to make their case. Or they resort to namecalling: we are 'racists,' or 'haters' or 'xenophobes.' That is their entire argument.
The reason the upper class wants the immigrants is a) they segregate themselves in private schools, elite neighborhoods,etc., so they don't personally feel the impact b) it's not their own jobs that are being impacted c) they can hire cheap maids, lawn people, aides, etc. d) their business gets a higher profit.
In other words, they got theirs. Then they have the audacity to call the middle & working class whose jobs are taken, racists.
They are here illegally. They broke the law.
If I went to any other country illegally without a visa, I would not be surprised if I were deported. That is what I would deserve (best case scenario.)
If you don't like the law, change the law.
What the NYT argues is incoherent logically. Basically it is saying, "It's illegal, but if I break the law and sneak in, then I should become legal." Those who try to become citizens the legal way-- we basically tell them they are suckers.
It's obvious they are no logical supports to the argument, because the NYT keeps trotting out emotional propaganda -- kind good children - to make their case. Or they resort to namecalling: we are 'racists,' or 'haters' or 'xenophobes.' That is their entire argument.
The reason the upper class wants the immigrants is a) they segregate themselves in private schools, elite neighborhoods,etc., so they don't personally feel the impact b) it's not their own jobs that are being impacted c) they can hire cheap maids, lawn people, aides, etc. d) their business gets a higher profit.
In other words, they got theirs. Then they have the audacity to call the middle & working class whose jobs are taken, racists.
193
"In other words, they got theirs. Then they have the audacity to call the middle & working class whose jobs are taken, racists."
I doubt you or any of your middle class working class friends are willing to go and pick potatoes, tomatoes, grapes, strawberries for hours on end. I doubt you are all willing to go cut treefern for 23 cents a bunch in the blistering cold after the sprinklers were on all night and the pesticides were just sprayed as my mother does. No immigrant is complaining like you all middle class people talking about stealing jobs you would never take
I doubt you or any of your middle class working class friends are willing to go and pick potatoes, tomatoes, grapes, strawberries for hours on end. I doubt you are all willing to go cut treefern for 23 cents a bunch in the blistering cold after the sprinklers were on all night and the pesticides were just sprayed as my mother does. No immigrant is complaining like you all middle class people talking about stealing jobs you would never take
1
No, wrong. I don't have a maid, undocumented or otherwise. I don't have a business that profits from illegal immigrants. I do not profit from immigrants. I support a path to citizenship because I believe it is the right thing to do.
You discuss two fallacies. The first--they are taking our jobs. Many of the jobs done by illegal immigrants were turned down by American citizens who want higher wages or don't want to do hard manual labor.
The second is more complicated. "They broke the law" and they should pay. Well, insofar as a three year old can break the immigration law, okay. But since a three year old can't understand laws, they cannot be held legally responsible for breaking them. How will deporting Aracely to a country she has never known serve justice?
Aracely is obviously a smart and accomplished young woman, with dreams, ambitions and the drive to get it done, and improve the world to boot. Maybe, if the "pull-yourself-up-by-your bootstraps" crowd spent less time complaining about everyone they think is taking their just rewards from them, they could focus more on how to update their skills, acquire the education needed to succeed in the modern world, and adapt to the world economy.
Countries with citizens who can do that will succeed, countries who wall themselves off and squander their human capital will not.
I consider Dalia and Aracely a credit to our nation. We can benefit from adding their future accomplishments to our society.
You discuss two fallacies. The first--they are taking our jobs. Many of the jobs done by illegal immigrants were turned down by American citizens who want higher wages or don't want to do hard manual labor.
The second is more complicated. "They broke the law" and they should pay. Well, insofar as a three year old can break the immigration law, okay. But since a three year old can't understand laws, they cannot be held legally responsible for breaking them. How will deporting Aracely to a country she has never known serve justice?
Aracely is obviously a smart and accomplished young woman, with dreams, ambitions and the drive to get it done, and improve the world to boot. Maybe, if the "pull-yourself-up-by-your bootstraps" crowd spent less time complaining about everyone they think is taking their just rewards from them, they could focus more on how to update their skills, acquire the education needed to succeed in the modern world, and adapt to the world economy.
Countries with citizens who can do that will succeed, countries who wall themselves off and squander their human capital will not.
I consider Dalia and Aracely a credit to our nation. We can benefit from adding their future accomplishments to our society.
3
@Jacqueline - you just made the case for substandard and hazardous working conditions!
Most illegal immigrant labor is concentrated outside of agriculture, and has decimated the wages of working class U.S. citizens.
Most illegal immigrant labor is concentrated outside of agriculture, and has decimated the wages of working class U.S. citizens.
5
Bleeding heart liberals argue that it is immoral to break up families and return the illegal aliens to their home country while their anchor babies are citizens. I say to those 'think with your heart' people, send the anchor babies along with their illegal parents to their home countries, and keep the families together in the countries where they came from.
Also, if the person was NOT admitted to this country with due inspection, then they are not subject to our laws and their anchor babies should not be citizens of this country.
Liberals like to keep our immigration system broken. They see these illegals as potential, future Dem voters. Shameful.
Also, if the person was NOT admitted to this country with due inspection, then they are not subject to our laws and their anchor babies should not be citizens of this country.
Liberals like to keep our immigration system broken. They see these illegals as potential, future Dem voters. Shameful.
83
Your "conservative" buddies who like to talk a good game but love the ultra cheap labor are the actual problem.
11
Have your cake and eat it, too. So which is it? Subject to our laws and therefore subject to deportation? Or not subject to our laws so you can denigrate native born United States citizens?
1
Never give up even when you believe you are going down the hill. I understand where you are coming from. United State is a great country but many have forgotten that their ancestors were illegal when they came here too. They have forgotten who they are and where they came from. The two of you are an inspiration to many young people. I'm an American Citizen but I had to pay my dues as a Latino too. I'm highly educated with a doctorate degree in psychology and two masters degrees. I remember when I began working for the NYS Education Department and even the secretary thought she was better prepared because she was white. One day she asked me "Where did you get your doctorate ?" "You are Puerto Rican." I laughed very loud and told her " I bought it at K-Mart, go and get yours, it is on sale now, then I said "Your ignorance surpass your stupidity." She went and told my supervisor that I called her stupid for no reason. For a full year I documented everything they did and said to make me leave. I did not leave until I decided to do so, when I wanted to leave and not when they wanted to punch me out. You, go on and keep going, it is never too late to become what you wish to become. Best of luck!
3
Really dumb arguments. Do you think the Indians may have tightened up the border if they knew what was ultimately going to happen to them? Which laws do I get to ignore because I don't agree with them?
5
Thank you both for sharing your experiences. Please continue to strive for the best life you can . Whether it is as the best employee or most helpful volunteer, you are making a difference. Your generation will be running this country, use your experiences to shape it in the image you dream of. God bless you both.
4
NYT, you are not listening to your readers - even the liberal ones. Illegal aliens need to be sent back to their countries of origin, period. Most Americans support the rule of law and want to take care of our needy own first. We have plenty already and importing poverty and unskilled labor is just bad public policy. These constant sob stories change nothing and just make your newspaper appear more out of touch with reality.
124
I'd like to know from all those negative respondents if they were to ask their 1st generation immigrant forefathers how they would have felt if they saw their descendants treating immigrants as they now do. Every wave of immigrants to the US have had their share of illegal immigration but is the country not better for it? Have some compassion and empathy...are those not core American values?
7
As I stated above,my grandfather legally immigrated. He had no respect for the illegal immigrants who came over. That answer your question?
8
I have great compassion for those that follow our laws.
5
This IS NOT part of the immigration debate.
This is part of the ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION (gasp!) debate.
The left (and the NYT) dont make a distinction between the two.
This is part of the ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION (gasp!) debate.
The left (and the NYT) dont make a distinction between the two.
93
Neither does NPR make the distinction. Shameful cynicism.
19
Just think how much better off Mexico, India, Haiti and Central American countries would be if their American trained citizens returned home and introduced democracy. Instead, they import third world values to the US that make compliance with laws and the social contract optional.
Fully 40% of the citizens of Guatemala, primarily working age men, are living in the US illegally. As a consequence, the cities are now under the control of gangs. And family farms have been sold to pay coyotes. After Obama unilaterally imposed DACA lite, Central Americans started shipping their children to join their fathers, coincidentally creating a humanitarian crisis.
Policy decisions are best made by representatives of all viewpoints, with citizen interests having the highest priority. Unilateral, illegal decisions by Obama for purely personal gain have disadvantaged both American citizens as well as the illegal immigrants who were offered hope along with quasi legal status unlikely to ever convert to permanence.
Obama cares nothing for anyone other than his wealthy cronies who want cheap labor.
Fully 40% of the citizens of Guatemala, primarily working age men, are living in the US illegally. As a consequence, the cities are now under the control of gangs. And family farms have been sold to pay coyotes. After Obama unilaterally imposed DACA lite, Central Americans started shipping their children to join their fathers, coincidentally creating a humanitarian crisis.
Policy decisions are best made by representatives of all viewpoints, with citizen interests having the highest priority. Unilateral, illegal decisions by Obama for purely personal gain have disadvantaged both American citizens as well as the illegal immigrants who were offered hope along with quasi legal status unlikely to ever convert to permanence.
Obama cares nothing for anyone other than his wealthy cronies who want cheap labor.
61
I scarcely know where to begin.
1) Mexico, India and Haiti are democracies, so no one need to "introduce democracy" in those countries. I'm curious what political system you think they follow in these countries, if you're under the impression they are not democracies.
2) 40% of the citizens of Guatemala are not living in the US illegally. But I'm curious where you got this stunningly false statistic. Did you just make it up out of whole cloth? Something you read on Stormfront?
1) Mexico, India and Haiti are democracies, so no one need to "introduce democracy" in those countries. I'm curious what political system you think they follow in these countries, if you're under the impression they are not democracies.
2) 40% of the citizens of Guatemala are not living in the US illegally. But I'm curious where you got this stunningly false statistic. Did you just make it up out of whole cloth? Something you read on Stormfront?
5
Well. since you now so much about Mexico, what happens to the billions and billions of dollars the US sent to Mexico, to shore up their country, so their citizens would not have to come to the US for work? The $$ went into the pockets of a few corrupt officials. And if, you do know anything about Mexican politics,you would know they are not a democracy.
6
Undocumented immigrants undermine the sovereignty of both the USA and their home country. The Bush administration tacitly encouraged undocumented immigration to hide the massive shift of income to the 1% here and abroad.
When a country's best and brightest flee, then no one is there to defend the resources or the rule of law. Does anyone think that the drug cartels would have achieved a stranglehold on the Mexican economy if millions of strong and determined citizens had stayed to fight?
While in the USA, we got an illusion of prosperity due to the availability of cheap labor. Complacent, Americans did nothing to defend the rule of law or our resources from the rapacity of multinational corporations. Now Americans are angry and fearful and fighting to bring back true democracy.
If I were in their shoes, I would take my excellent education back to my home country and FIGHT for the rule of law and the creation of real opportunity for my fellow citizens.
The oligarchy is worldwide so people must engage in a worldwide battle for all of humanity enjoy life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Know that Americans will support your battles, but each person is responsible for battling for inalienable rights in their corner of the world.
When a country's best and brightest flee, then no one is there to defend the resources or the rule of law. Does anyone think that the drug cartels would have achieved a stranglehold on the Mexican economy if millions of strong and determined citizens had stayed to fight?
While in the USA, we got an illusion of prosperity due to the availability of cheap labor. Complacent, Americans did nothing to defend the rule of law or our resources from the rapacity of multinational corporations. Now Americans are angry and fearful and fighting to bring back true democracy.
If I were in their shoes, I would take my excellent education back to my home country and FIGHT for the rule of law and the creation of real opportunity for my fellow citizens.
The oligarchy is worldwide so people must engage in a worldwide battle for all of humanity enjoy life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Know that Americans will support your battles, but each person is responsible for battling for inalienable rights in their corner of the world.
39
These stories are heart breaking. Our country is failing to protect its most vulnerable residents. They were brought here as children and have done nothing wrong. We should give them a patch way to citizenship.
3
Sure, Aracely is a decent, compassionate, intelligent woman who was brought here illegally as a child, through no fault of her own, and a reasonable argument can be made for giving her legal status in the US, if not citizenship.
But why does the NYT continually run sob stories about immigrants, yet totally ignore the problems of low/no-skilled and working class Americans that are created by TOO MUCH immigration? Too much immigration really does take jobs from American workers, and really does depress their wages. Meat packers used to make good union wages before the flood of immigrants depressed the wages to the minimum, under atrocious conditions.
The NYT's one-sided coverage of immigration does nothing to help gain permanent legal status for people like Aracely, because it's not going to happen until the Democratic leadership becomes willing to enforce immigration laws and reduce immigration numbers from the 10-20 million per decade of the last four decades to a level that does not give the country immigration indigestion.
But why does the NYT continually run sob stories about immigrants, yet totally ignore the problems of low/no-skilled and working class Americans that are created by TOO MUCH immigration? Too much immigration really does take jobs from American workers, and really does depress their wages. Meat packers used to make good union wages before the flood of immigrants depressed the wages to the minimum, under atrocious conditions.
The NYT's one-sided coverage of immigration does nothing to help gain permanent legal status for people like Aracely, because it's not going to happen until the Democratic leadership becomes willing to enforce immigration laws and reduce immigration numbers from the 10-20 million per decade of the last four decades to a level that does not give the country immigration indigestion.
117
When did it become TOO MUCH immigration? Right after your grandparents and mine arrived?
3
I seem to remember both an American president and Mexican government promising one time only amnesty in the 1980's. My grandparents legally came into the US from mexico, but he had to have a sponsor who put up a bond for him. He had to have a job, and in urn he had o save up to legally sponsor his brothers to come to the US. Petaltown, look at other countries;do they have rules? What happens if people break those rules?
10
It is too much immigration for a country with a mature economy where people can't simply go out on the frontier to grow a living. Since the millennium, there are an additional 9.3 million jobs, an additional 18 million immigrants, and an additional 16.5 million working age Americans. Job creation is unable to keep up with population increase.
It is also too much immigration for a country that is almost certainly environmentally unsustainable. (I used to have conversations about this with Pres Obama's Science Advisor, who was my long-ago professor at UC Berkeley.) It's not immigration per se, but we are overpopulated. Additionally, we are the major industrialized nation with the greatest greenhouse emissions. The average immigrant's GH emissions rise fourfold after arrival here.
It is also too much immigration for a country that is almost certainly environmentally unsustainable. (I used to have conversations about this with Pres Obama's Science Advisor, who was my long-ago professor at UC Berkeley.) It's not immigration per se, but we are overpopulated. Additionally, we are the major industrialized nation with the greatest greenhouse emissions. The average immigrant's GH emissions rise fourfold after arrival here.
6
Two very brave young ladies. Do not give up! Most Americans wish you every success. The haters? At least now we know who they are......
6
Gosh, how's the air up there on your high horse? I don't hate anybody; I resent lawbreakers asking forgiveness after-the-fact. If you or someone you know gets arrested, see how that works for you. (Bet it doesn't.) Should we grant amnesty to all petty thieves? How about minor vandalism? Traffic violations? Trespassing? (Now there's a good one!) One class of criminal gets treated differently than all the others, that's your solution?
19
Haters? Following law and advocating it makes 'haters'? Where are you getting that idea from?
19
@legal - >> "Where are you getting that idea from?"
Evanston, Il population 72,xxx. Northwestern University (Evanston, IL) enrollment 21,xxx. 30% of the population are students at 1 university. (C'mon. Gimme me a tough question.) $50,xxx tuition; has had a strong religious affiliation (Methodist) since founding, Not officially religious; very well respected research institution.
Evanston, Il population 72,xxx. Northwestern University (Evanston, IL) enrollment 21,xxx. 30% of the population are students at 1 university. (C'mon. Gimme me a tough question.) $50,xxx tuition; has had a strong religious affiliation (Methodist) since founding, Not officially religious; very well respected research institution.
Wow, the nativist rage in some of these NYTimes comments is astonishing. The fact is, immigrants -- whether documented or not -- are a net asset to American society. If you had the wealth/education to immigrate to this country legally or the endurance and resourcefulness to walk across a desert border, then you're a bigger asset to this country than some third- or fourth-generation American sitting on the laurels of the hard work of his/her ancestors. As the article correctly points out, immigrants commit fewer crimes per capita than citizens. They also subsidize your social security and other government benefits. So stop lambasting them and start thanking them!
19
I realize you believe what you say fervently. However, that does not make it true. The u.s. has all the poor, uneducated, unskilled people it will ever need. In fact, we are well beyond the carrying capacity of this nation or the planet to support this many humans long term. Being the worlds pressure relief valve for its booming population, may make us feel good, but, just like at your personal home, taking in everybody who needs a place to stay, will in the end, not help them or you.
14
No. Legal immigrants benefit a country. Illegal immigrants disparage respect for the law and are patsies for companies looking for cheap labor. The ones with few skills undercut the labor market, and we no longer need any unskilled labor imports. The ones with some skills still undermine native workers' salaries.
5
Of course there are model illegal aliens and their US-born children out there. They are not all "rapists", "drug dealers" or "criminals". But, that's not the point. If you want to immigrate the United States of America, you gotta do it legally - Apply for a visa in your home country, wait for your turn and settle in this country. Legal aliens have done all of that (over a lengthy period of time). Illegal aliens choose to break the US immigration law (for whatever reasons they may have had) and therefore they should take responsibilities of breaking the law and accept the consequences. The 14th amendment needs to be revisited as its original intent is being twisted now, which has become a single big loophole.
48
They're illegal aliens who entered the United States in violation of law. That's all they are. We don't need a wall. Their employers just need to go to jail.
111
Thank you for sharing your stories. I am a first generation American and lived in Arizona for many years growing up. No one has ever implied I should not be a citizen of this country because my parents weren't born hear. It's an extremely ignorant and frankly un-American idea. One main difference with me is I am not brown and my parents were middle class. I wonder about people comparing "legal" and European migration with the current situation in the US. It simply is not comparable. Race and class are driving the regressive laws white middle class people pass in Arizona (and across the entire Western world) to try to stop the inevitable: that humans move and sometimes they don't speak English or look like you. I also wonder about people who have struggled and can offer no compassion to undocumented people. Yes this is political. How else can we change draconian laws that discriminate? We need more compassion in politics. There is more that unites us than divides us. Soon Arizona will do what is right and reward people based on merit, not whether they have lived there longer and bluster louder. Keep the faith, and keep fighting!
6
Moving and entering a country illegally arent the same thing.
22
I am from Boston, MA, but I lived in Arizona for 3.5 years. I don't think people who haven't grown up on the border can understand it, and people who haven't visited the area really have no idea what they are talking about. The stories of Dalia and Aracely are heartbreaking and they are incredibly brave for sharing their lives with us. Latino immigrants are the backbone of the American economy. They do the hardest work for the lowest wages. Our unjust immigration policies that keep people living in the shadows ensures that they will never have the opportunity to fight for their human rights. Politicians use scapegoating rhetoric to distract from the fact that U.S. foreign policy, in particular NAFTA and the War on Drugs, is the reason that people leave Mexico and come to the U.S. Every person on earth deserves to be able to live in safety and feed their families. Every person in the U.S. deserves respect and access to education and a better life. I am grateful for all that immigrants contribute to our country (especially all the taxes they pay without receiving benefits) and I welcome the day when Dalia and Aracely's families will be able to live as full members of our society.
72
What about the hospitals in Arizona on the border who went broke and had to shut down due to the women who would arrive from over the border in labor, to get that birth certificate? And never pay the bill?
14
"especially all the taxes they pay without receiving benefits"
The roads they drive on, utilities, public education...etc.?
The roads they drive on, utilities, public education...etc.?
6
They do the hardest work for the lowest wages. Our unjust immigration policies that keep people living in the shadows ensures that they will never have the opportunity to fight for their human rights.
----------------For the lowest wages? Precisely, because wages are driven down by the NUMBER of people available willing to do the work at lower wages. Moreover, some 7 million illegal aliens, according to SS no matches, are using STOLEN SS numbers (a felony) to get jobs alongside Americans so they're hardly "living in the shadows". Instead, they're pretending to be Americans or at least legal workers to literally steal jobs from legal workers. As for human rights, let them fight for them IN THEIR OWN COUNTRIES. Mexico is a wealthy country, #15 in GDP, and well able to take care of its own citizens IF its elites (such as Carlos Slim, a major shareholder in this paper) were forced to.
----------------For the lowest wages? Precisely, because wages are driven down by the NUMBER of people available willing to do the work at lower wages. Moreover, some 7 million illegal aliens, according to SS no matches, are using STOLEN SS numbers (a felony) to get jobs alongside Americans so they're hardly "living in the shadows". Instead, they're pretending to be Americans or at least legal workers to literally steal jobs from legal workers. As for human rights, let them fight for them IN THEIR OWN COUNTRIES. Mexico is a wealthy country, #15 in GDP, and well able to take care of its own citizens IF its elites (such as Carlos Slim, a major shareholder in this paper) were forced to.
No amount of discourse can convince me that those who intentionally break the laws of this country should benefit from this country in any way. Citizenship for 11 million illegal aliens (not to be confused with "immigrants") is an invitation to another 11 million prospective law-breakers. Quite tired of the NYT's tender-than-thou treatment of this topic.
98
Following this reasoning (Cherry´s), Donald Trump should not benefit in any way, yet he is running for the highest office of the land. The jobs that these illegal immigrants fill are 99.999% of the time so poorly paid no American citizen would ever take them. The problem with our economy is not criminal and irresponsible immigrants who take benefits, jobs, the life out of this country and society, but the abysmal inequality produced by a dismal distribution of wealth. Immigrants, illegal and legal alike, are just an excuse, a scape goat that serves to preserve those ends perpetuated by wide spread ignorance. As for these two young women, keep working for what you believe and want out of life. Life is a series of greater and lesser hurtles, and those who keep the eye on the road and persevere in the end get what they deserve. Your parents might not see a better life, but you surely will. You are both amazing young women and the future is yours to define and eventually to enjoy--in this country if you so desire.
1
Sorry. The stories I cry over are those of the Iraqi and Afghani translators who risked their lives and the lives of their families to work with the US military, and who were promised the right to immigrate here, and who still haven't received their visas and whose lives are daily if not hourly in danger.
When our government has fulfilled its obligation to such people, and then to our own citizens, we can extend our help to others.
When our government has fulfilled its obligation to such people, and then to our own citizens, we can extend our help to others.
70
My son is a successful developer in Texas. He is a Republican. Several years ago I asked him if he was still working long hours. He said no. It was the rainey season in Mexico and muddy roads made it impossible for the Mexican construction workers to cross the border into the US. Wow, conservative anti- immigrationist, Republican business men and women depend on cheap Mexican labor for their success. Seems to me that the corporations win cheap labor. Tax payers end up having to pay for medical and educational needs of these workers, and the workers themselves are treated like less than human chattel. It amazes me that the descendents of European immigrants are so completely ignorant of the prejudicial attitudes and unlawful behaviors of ordinary Americans against their ancestors. We are the country that closed our borders to the Jews who were facing extermination and put American citizens of Japanese descent in internment camps. Let's not forget what this country did to Native Americans and African Americans. Paul and Activist Bill seem to be perpetuating the history of hate in this country. Let's not forget that this story is the story of a flesh and blood young woman who is nobly fighting to find a safe place for herself and her family in a country that is better than the small minority of Americans who ignorantly preach hatred.
31
Didn't native American tribes try to exterminate each other before the arrival of Europeans? I think we paint a rosy picture of Native Americans who, pre-conquest, if I am correct, were warring tribes killing each other over territory.
12
If the government enforced our borders and immigration laws, construction companies would not need to employ illegals to stay competitive with other companies doing the same.
7
Over 30 years ago, my spouse and her family came to the United States from Mexico legally. They learned English and became American citizens. None of them believe that people who came to this country illegally deserve amnesty.
121
Aracely- if you do decide you want to go to college someday (and I know that is not an easy thing to do when you need to work for your family), check out United We Dream, Golden Door, HSF, Questbridge, and Jack Kent Cooke. I know that this may not be an option, but out of state tuition at community colleges outside of your state may be cheaper- in TN, students from Memphis will enroll in community college in AR.
Dalia: Keep fighting the good fight- you are not alone. It is not easy to do what you've done, but if it helps at all, know that there are people who care. Thank you for sharing your story.
To the other commenters: my grandparents did not come here legally (unclear about my mother...they are all citizens now). I went to Harvard and Stanford. I have spent my working life helping students like Dalia and Aracely, and students from all backgrounds and walks of life, reach their full potential. Where do you want to draw the line? When do I stop belonging? What do immigrants have to do to prove they are worth keeping? And who gets to decide who is worthy?
Dalia: Keep fighting the good fight- you are not alone. It is not easy to do what you've done, but if it helps at all, know that there are people who care. Thank you for sharing your story.
To the other commenters: my grandparents did not come here legally (unclear about my mother...they are all citizens now). I went to Harvard and Stanford. I have spent my working life helping students like Dalia and Aracely, and students from all backgrounds and walks of life, reach their full potential. Where do you want to draw the line? When do I stop belonging? What do immigrants have to do to prove they are worth keeping? And who gets to decide who is worthy?
30
Who gets to decide who is worthy?
The citizens of this country.
The citizens of this country.
26
I'm undecided about the issue.
You imply that anybody with the grit, IQ, drive, and enterprising spirit should be able to gain citizenship. I don't disagree with that, but the underlying thought (in your implied argument) is VERY capitalist in nature, in that it sort of calls for a world without borders in which talent and skill can migrate to the zones of highest remuneration. Okay. Great. This idea is opposed to both Nationalism and Socialism. What you advocate in terms of leniency and support will eventually undermine any hope for more Socialist policies, because what you advocate rewards pluck, intelligence, and hardwork. You mention your pedigree (Harvard and Stanford) to illustrate that you are better than other people, and you obviously ARE, in terms of intelligence, aptitude, and application. Okay. Great. But in your vision ONLY other people who can succeed as you have done will belong in the borderless America. There will be a process of natural deportation in which people who were born in the USA yet who are not smart enough will be forced to move to Mexico.
This happens in NYC. People who can't make it financially in NYC are forced to move to Brooklyn. If they can't make it in Brooklyn, they are forced to move to Philly or Buffalo. The "gentrification" one sees in Manhattan is the blueprint for an America without borders (and that rewards IQ, grit, and enterprise).
You imply that anybody with the grit, IQ, drive, and enterprising spirit should be able to gain citizenship. I don't disagree with that, but the underlying thought (in your implied argument) is VERY capitalist in nature, in that it sort of calls for a world without borders in which talent and skill can migrate to the zones of highest remuneration. Okay. Great. This idea is opposed to both Nationalism and Socialism. What you advocate in terms of leniency and support will eventually undermine any hope for more Socialist policies, because what you advocate rewards pluck, intelligence, and hardwork. You mention your pedigree (Harvard and Stanford) to illustrate that you are better than other people, and you obviously ARE, in terms of intelligence, aptitude, and application. Okay. Great. But in your vision ONLY other people who can succeed as you have done will belong in the borderless America. There will be a process of natural deportation in which people who were born in the USA yet who are not smart enough will be forced to move to Mexico.
This happens in NYC. People who can't make it financially in NYC are forced to move to Brooklyn. If they can't make it in Brooklyn, they are forced to move to Philly or Buffalo. The "gentrification" one sees in Manhattan is the blueprint for an America without borders (and that rewards IQ, grit, and enterprise).
10
So which laws do I get to disregard because I don't believe what you do?
5
Both of these women impress me as the kind of citizens we should be looking for here in America. Hard working, intelligent, good people. I am uninformed as to what it takes exactly to become a citizen of this great country. A follow up story on the process, cost and timeline would be very helpful in an analysis of the immigration quandary.
Try not to let the "hater's" get you down ladies. I believe a logical, intelligent,empathic solution is within our ability as a nation of immigrants.
Try not to let the "hater's" get you down ladies. I believe a logical, intelligent,empathic solution is within our ability as a nation of immigrants.
72
Is "hater" a synonym for someone who wants to see Federal Immigration Law enforced?
44
You're right, we should be looking for these kind of citizens, but those who enter the country to the proper, legal channels.
If these girls want to go back to Mexico and reenter through the approved process, I will welcome them with open arms.
Until then, they are criminals living among us.
If these girls want to go back to Mexico and reenter through the approved process, I will welcome them with open arms.
Until then, they are criminals living among us.
32
That these young women impress you is the point of the article. By highlighting them and their families' plight you gain empathy for their situation. And by extension, empathy for the 11 million illegal immigrants. Which builds support for the amnesty Hillary is promising in her first 100 days as president.
Never mind that the families broke our laws to come here, work here and take advantage of our system. And never mind that the last amnesty failed and led to the 11 million demanding the same thing for themselves.
Emotional arguments (like this thinly veiled propaganda piece) are used when you can't argue the merits. And if you can't argue on the merits, your stance on the issue is untenable.
Never mind that the families broke our laws to come here, work here and take advantage of our system. And never mind that the last amnesty failed and led to the 11 million demanding the same thing for themselves.
Emotional arguments (like this thinly veiled propaganda piece) are used when you can't argue the merits. And if you can't argue on the merits, your stance on the issue is untenable.
7
You are not model anything if your parents broke our laws with impunity. If you do the crime, you must do the time outside the United States, legally apply to come here. Otherwise, you are not model citizens; you are ILLEGAL LAW-BREAKERS.
57
Their *parents* broke the law--they didn't. Why should they be punished for what their parents did wrong? By all means, deport the parents who came here illegally. But the girls grew up here, speak the language, are familiar with our customs, and are working people who pay taxes (payroll taxes are taken out of your paycheck whether you are here legally or not). These ladies and other foreign born people who were raised here are unlikely to have a negative affect on our country.
4
Here comes the anti-immigrant vitriol. (Yes, I know illegal immigrant.) Whatever.
My only peace of mind is knowing that no matter how many hateful, angry comments are written, these people will remain here and more will keep coming.
Good luck, ladies!
My only peace of mind is knowing that no matter how many hateful, angry comments are written, these people will remain here and more will keep coming.
Good luck, ladies!
18
Do you believe that there should be ANY sort of immigration law?
30
Seriously? These are two intellectually gifted young women who can make very meaningful contributions to society, and yet you think it is a good idea to deport them, especially when one of them is already a citizen?
Are you willing to get a bump up in your taxes to pay for the cost of deporting millions of undocumented residents?
It is ironic that Republicans/conservatives consider themselves the party of family values, yet have no problem with breaking up families that are comprised of both legal and documented residents. I guess what you all are talking about is white family values?
Are you willing to get a bump up in your taxes to pay for the cost of deporting millions of undocumented residents?
It is ironic that Republicans/conservatives consider themselves the party of family values, yet have no problem with breaking up families that are comprised of both legal and documented residents. I guess what you all are talking about is white family values?
55
Are you willing to get a bump up in your taxes to pay for the cost of deporting millions of undocumented residents?
As opposed to paying hundreds of billions for years of welfare and Medicaid that illegal aliens receive for their US-born children?
As opposed to paying hundreds of billions for years of welfare and Medicaid that illegal aliens receive for their US-born children?
26
"I guess what you all are talking about is white family values?"
Nice strawman you got going there at the end.
Nice strawman you got going there at the end.
5
Maybe you should do some research instead of letting your prejudices decide your reality. The Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy released a report in February 2016, stating that 11 million undocumented immigrants in the United States are paying annually an estimated amount of $11.64 billion in state and local taxes, "on average an estimated 8 percent of their incomes."
You cross the border you are breaking the law. You break one law, what other laws are you going to break? There are many across the world that would like a better life. If you want a better life, work on it where you live. The first European immigrants to this country suffered many deprivations to build this country the way it is. You want our way of life, work on it instead of wanting to reap the benefits the easy way by breaking the law.
39
"Work on it where you live"? The reason it is more difficult to build and secure a good life in countries in the Global South is that the U.S. and Western European countries forced these nations into global capitalism, disrupted their economies, extracted their high value resources, and in many cases funded horrific wars that shredded the social fabric of their societies. And of course, the first European immigrants to this country (my ancestors included) were a part of this; the perpetrated the genocide of indigenous Americans, participated in an economy based in African slavery, and (later) found all kinds of creative ways to reap the benefits of Mexican labor without giving Mexicans the opportunity to access the benefits and protections of American citizenship. Your apparent belief that hard work and sacrifice are all it takes to build a good life seems not to be informed by a good understanding of the history of the role the U.S. and Western Europe have played in the world and how those countries' institutions and policies have structured the opportunities that are and are not available to others.
3
"You cross the border you are breaking the law. You break one law, what other laws are you going to break?"
I have a lot to say, but I'll start with the most simplest of logic for you. Arnie-they had no choice when they crossed the border. They were tiny children. If you speed, which I'm sure you do- as well as many other illegal things you do and take for granted because you didn't get caught- and your children in the car, are they criminals? Seriously, if a 2 year old steals candy because he's hungry, he doesn't grow up to be a terrorist. And as the Europeans suffered these girls have too- did you not read the article- they are deprived-poor, without job prospects or education- because of where they were born. And working on it- They are working on it- at Lola's, Promise and so on. Read before you post. And if you did read, trying learning and empathy.
I have a lot to say, but I'll start with the most simplest of logic for you. Arnie-they had no choice when they crossed the border. They were tiny children. If you speed, which I'm sure you do- as well as many other illegal things you do and take for granted because you didn't get caught- and your children in the car, are they criminals? Seriously, if a 2 year old steals candy because he's hungry, he doesn't grow up to be a terrorist. And as the Europeans suffered these girls have too- did you not read the article- they are deprived-poor, without job prospects or education- because of where they were born. And working on it- They are working on it- at Lola's, Promise and so on. Read before you post. And if you did read, trying learning and empathy.
3
Me again- I didn't mention before- but I have to say that as a Mexican born American (I'm both) Mexico has never questioned me or my identity. They are the most welcoming country and people. They do not look at my white skin and question me. My family has been there since my great-grandfather was a young man and yes, we are treated differently, but well-and not better. Most people don't know, but Mexico has a Mennonite and large Jewish population because they welcomed the persecuted. I wonder if they would welcome us if a wall was built. Seriously, these poor girls are treated like criminals for being born somewhere else. It is so sad, and I suppose ironic when Mexico welcomed so many (and many did horrible things...but that's another topic).
3
Dalia: I understand it is hard to be friends with people who came from a more privileged background and fear being ridiculed with the taunts of "go back home", but I urge you to befriend people who are different than you.
You said, "No one knows anything about me, except for my friends, who are a lot like me. All my close friends come from relatively marginalized backgrounds." It is understandable you want to be people like yourself, but college is an amazing opportunity to befriend people from all different backgrounds. If you do not make connections with people different from yourself it will be harder for them to understand your struggle.
You said, "No one knows anything about me, except for my friends, who are a lot like me. All my close friends come from relatively marginalized backgrounds." It is understandable you want to be people like yourself, but college is an amazing opportunity to befriend people from all different backgrounds. If you do not make connections with people different from yourself it will be harder for them to understand your struggle.
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As someone who once attended Williams (and observed the staggering privilege so many of its students bring to the campus, and how wantonly they indulge it there), I would submit that it is the responsibility of Dalia's classmates to reach out to her and make their bastion of wealth and privilege a welcoming and safe place for her-- not the other way around. To have gotten this far (junior year), Dalia has already had to navigate a world that was created entirely for, and mostly populated by, people who are radically different from her. The college is also very small, and located in an extremely remote, rural part of New England, so it's quite hard to escape from its dominant social life and culture. It's probably a safe bet that, just by being there, she is learning a lot more about people who are different from her than most of her classmates (who are groomed for admission to schools like Williams from toddlerhood, and feel they belong there from the moment they arrive). While I agree that those students need to hear Dalia's story, it's really not Dalia's responsibility to crack their privileged worlds open and educate them. Her job is to use the smarts and work ethic that got her this far to make of her life exactly what she wants it to be. Her example will educate and inspire people from a variety of backgrounds, but it's not her job to be an inspiration or to carry the weight of representing the experience of being undocumented in America.
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It's. It her job because she shouldn't be there to begin with. She choice to break our laws and enter our world and our culture. We don't owe her anything but a ride back across the border.
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Sarah, I don't think it is her job to explicitly educate more privileged students who have no idea about her struggles. When she admits to having only friends like herself it is a major disappointment from my point of view.
Being a friend with somebody different than yourself isn't hard and doesn't require her to explicitly educate. Just being friends teaches through an indirect manner. She will have extraordinary difficulty obtaining a job after graduation and her whole family faces obsticales that are impossible to fathom. When people from priviledged backgrounds know friends who struggle their friends' issues become personal. For many people "illegal aliens" are just an intangible idea and not real people. Befriending somebody puts the humanity into political issues.
It's no surprise though. It seems as though all the frat boys and sorority girls from silver spoon backgrounds stick together and minorities stay together in their own student groups. They can make it through college and never cross paths.
Being a friend with somebody different than yourself isn't hard and doesn't require her to explicitly educate. Just being friends teaches through an indirect manner. She will have extraordinary difficulty obtaining a job after graduation and her whole family faces obsticales that are impossible to fathom. When people from priviledged backgrounds know friends who struggle their friends' issues become personal. For many people "illegal aliens" are just an intangible idea and not real people. Befriending somebody puts the humanity into political issues.
It's no surprise though. It seems as though all the frat boys and sorority girls from silver spoon backgrounds stick together and minorities stay together in their own student groups. They can make it through college and never cross paths.
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I came to this country as a legal immigrant and travelled from New York to California by Greyhound and back many times over. I slept in the bus to save money and time and finally had a job. I never worried about visa checks because I followed the law. I paid my dues and am now proudly holding a US passport and saying "Thank You" when officials at JFK say "Welcome Home Sir!" Do I feel that illegal immigrants should be forgiven for their crime! Never.
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Send them back. Let them be model citizens in their home country.
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Tell Aracely to pay no attention to the haters. Check out Jack Kent Cooke Foundation scholarships.
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No sympathy should be afforded to anyone whose family entered the United States illegally. These repetitive tear jerking stories are meant to engender compassion for the children of illegal aliens, and they are transparently political in nature. Parents who break the law need to pay the price for their actions, and that needs to include deportation for themselves and the children they produce. We welcome them to apply to re-enter the Untied States legally, just my grandparents did when they emigrated from Russia through Ellis Island in 1917.
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Paul, when your grandparents (and mine) walked off the boat in 1917, there was no such thing as illegal immigration. Barring illness, they would not have been prevented from stepping foot on U.S. soil and becoming a citizen after 7 years of residency. All were, literally, welcome. Immigration control, as we know it in the U.S., is less than 100 years old.
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The laws in 1917 were different than it is now. America is a country has evolved for the better. Now there are rules which should be followed.
Just because it was ok in 1917 does not mean it is ok now. There is a way to become legal citizen and I know it because I have followed it. It is in place and these people are not above it.
Just because it was ok in 1917 does not mean it is ok now. There is a way to become legal citizen and I know it because I have followed it. It is in place and these people are not above it.
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The US stole Mexico, and the US's policies in Central America are largely responsible for the unrest there, from which desperate people seek refuge.
I am SO sick and tired of those who want to use the Bible for justifying everything EXCEPT Christ's calls for service to others.
Really and truly sickening.
I am SO sick and tired of those who want to use the Bible for justifying everything EXCEPT Christ's calls for service to others.
Really and truly sickening.
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People who enter this country illegally should be deported immediately. And this country needs to eliminate birth-right citizenship. Children born here should be considered citizens of whichever country their mother is a citizen.
Why does the U.S. have to continue to take in criminals (terrorists?) who do ignore the simple rules of legal entry into this nation? Other countries imprison illegals at best, execute them at worst.
Why does the U.S. have to continue to take in criminals (terrorists?) who do ignore the simple rules of legal entry into this nation? Other countries imprison illegals at best, execute them at worst.
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Notice how all the open border proponents live more than a thousand miles from Mexico?
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BearBoy, yes, most of the illegals who enter the U.S. through the highly porous Mexican-U.S. border are from other South American countries
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So would you like to eliminate Bobby Jindal's citizenship?
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Arizona is also welcoming to refugees from all over the world. Those who settle refugees know that Arizona is a supportive place.
I think someone should take Arizonans by their word. Increase the quota for Mexican immigrants, which is incredibly small, issue them green cards and bring them here. Dollars to donuts Arizonans won't blink an eye.