It is a funny world, some of the comments are between Americans and Canadians, arguing about whose country is hosting more of the world's refugees / migrants, in relative terms. I do not know the stats, but I definitely know that both of our countries and the entire West for that matter are total chumps - we are hosting the output of a failed and dysfunctional region, in the age of ever increasing Islamic terrorism, while the rich Gulf states, which have much more in common with these migrants, are not hosting any of their linguistic, cultural and religious brethren. Something is terribly wrong with this equation. Collectively, it will unfortunately cause a decline in the entire West.
8
My pregnant grandma was smuggled across the Canadian-US border so she could give birth to my mother in her aunt's Brooklyn apt., not surrounded by strangers. Later my grandparents took advantage of an amnesty to become citizens.
She began trying to support herself before she and my grandpa made it to North America. She applied at a dressmaker's shop in Belgium though she didn't know anything about sewing, and when the owner realized it, she kindly showed my grandma how to put the cut pieces together.
My grandma worked all her life, until she died of heart disease at 66. She certainly did break the law, coming in to the US as she did. But she was never a burden to anyone else, not even to her own children. Her children entered kindergarten not speaking English but quickly learned it, and she learned it from them, as quickly as she could.
Many of us have these stories; we are grateful for the compassion shown to ancestors and perhaps we still feel the sting of the cruelty shown them too.
But at the same time, almost 100 years after my grandma came here, times are now different. She struggled to support two children with a feckless husband she ended up divorcing, and though she came from a larger family, none of the descendants had more than two each. Her father was very religious but he knew he'd have to work on the Sabbath in his new country; he did and she did too. They had to adapt and they did, because America owed them nothing; they owed it everything.
She began trying to support herself before she and my grandpa made it to North America. She applied at a dressmaker's shop in Belgium though she didn't know anything about sewing, and when the owner realized it, she kindly showed my grandma how to put the cut pieces together.
My grandma worked all her life, until she died of heart disease at 66. She certainly did break the law, coming in to the US as she did. But she was never a burden to anyone else, not even to her own children. Her children entered kindergarten not speaking English but quickly learned it, and she learned it from them, as quickly as she could.
Many of us have these stories; we are grateful for the compassion shown to ancestors and perhaps we still feel the sting of the cruelty shown them too.
But at the same time, almost 100 years after my grandma came here, times are now different. She struggled to support two children with a feckless husband she ended up divorcing, and though she came from a larger family, none of the descendants had more than two each. Her father was very religious but he knew he'd have to work on the Sabbath in his new country; he did and she did too. They had to adapt and they did, because America owed them nothing; they owed it everything.
9
The sponsoring family needs to enlist the help of other Canadian families to sponsor the refugees relatives. The relatives--even in Lebanon--are not safe because Hezbollah with ties to Syrian President Assad can capture them and send them back to Syria. Waiting years until the refugee family in Canada is in a position to sponsor the relatives forces the family members in Lebanon to be in danger.
Also, fear that refugees immigrating to Canada are terrorists in disguise ignores the careful vetting process that immigrants to Canada undergo. Denying refugees safe haven punishes the victims of torture and war.
Also, fear that refugees immigrating to Canada are terrorists in disguise ignores the careful vetting process that immigrants to Canada undergo. Denying refugees safe haven punishes the victims of torture and war.
3
I would not be too confident about the careful vetting. Because of the scope of this conflict, anyone can hide or change their identity easily. Also there is no guarantee that the arrival or the arrival's children will not become radicalized in Canada.
10
I notice that many of the comments against admitting refugees advocate directing the resources being spent on resettling the families to improving the conditions at the camps in Lebanon, Jordan, etc.
Fine, but how many of the comment writers will back their words with action? If you hold that belief firmly and care about the suffering the door is wide open for you to help. The UN's World Food Programme, Doctors Without Borders and the International Red Cross take private donations. $25 a year to each if those organizations by every working American and Canadian would work greatly toward that goal and is an affordable donation even if you make minimum wage.
Or is it somebody else's problem to do even that little?
Fine, but how many of the comment writers will back their words with action? If you hold that belief firmly and care about the suffering the door is wide open for you to help. The UN's World Food Programme, Doctors Without Borders and the International Red Cross take private donations. $25 a year to each if those organizations by every working American and Canadian would work greatly toward that goal and is an affordable donation even if you make minimum wage.
Or is it somebody else's problem to do even that little?
2
I am Canadian, and I am also a member of a sponsorship group that brought a family of 5 (2 very young, illiterate parents and three young children) to Canada last January. Like these wonderful ladies in the article, the group members put a lot of hours and efforts into helping the family to become independent. Like the family from the article, "our" Syrian family does not progress the way we all hoped for. True, it must be extremely challenging to start learning to read and write for the first time when you are an adult. But there is no excuse for not putting any or little effort into learning. Like, in my opinion, there is no excuse for keeping the mother at home and not supporting her learning English or French and not letting her seek employment. We all know that often in immigrant and refugee families it is the mother who adapts faster, finds some employment faster, and then the family prospers. Prospering is not just a financial gain: it is settling, acquiring friends who are not your own countrymen and women, being able to communicate with your children friends' parents, coaches and teachers. We also decided against sponsoring the extended family of our Syrian family, for all these reasons. Not to be all gloom and doom, we met other Syrian families new to Canada who found some employment, dared to step out and resume their businesses they had in Syria. Those will be truly fine, and we are so happy to hear about those success stories.
14
Everything comes down to a way of thinking. The culture of Minnesota is different from the culture of Kansas because particular immigrant groups, with particular cultural values and religious traditions settled in each of those places and left a strong imprint.
Here in the US, the authorities have mostly chosen a hands-off attitude when faced with insular religious communities. So the fundamentalist Mormon sects can abuse women and children with impunity; Ultra-Orthodox Jewish sects can strong-arm themselves into dominating communities whose larger wellbeing they have no interest in; the Amish can run puppy mills (and they have their own ultra-fundamentalist sects much less nice than what we think of as "Amish") without being bothered; Muslims in Dearborn can live in what is basically a parallel society with its own norms that are not those of a secular nation.
We've got people urging us to be culturally sensitive when African immigrants continue mutilating their girls.
Sorry. When I married out of my ethnic and faith group, some relatives stopped talking to me, and when I did that a second time, more relatives stopped talking to me, but no one dreamed of killing me.
Former in-laws--a lovely young couple settled in Canada, English-speaking, the husband with advanced degrees--returned to Pakistan when their daughters were in late adolescence, because they will never accept out-marriage. By the way the parents married by choice. They won't let their kids, though.
Here in the US, the authorities have mostly chosen a hands-off attitude when faced with insular religious communities. So the fundamentalist Mormon sects can abuse women and children with impunity; Ultra-Orthodox Jewish sects can strong-arm themselves into dominating communities whose larger wellbeing they have no interest in; the Amish can run puppy mills (and they have their own ultra-fundamentalist sects much less nice than what we think of as "Amish") without being bothered; Muslims in Dearborn can live in what is basically a parallel society with its own norms that are not those of a secular nation.
We've got people urging us to be culturally sensitive when African immigrants continue mutilating their girls.
Sorry. When I married out of my ethnic and faith group, some relatives stopped talking to me, and when I did that a second time, more relatives stopped talking to me, but no one dreamed of killing me.
Former in-laws--a lovely young couple settled in Canada, English-speaking, the husband with advanced degrees--returned to Pakistan when their daughters were in late adolescence, because they will never accept out-marriage. By the way the parents married by choice. They won't let their kids, though.
9
The entanglement of religion and government is what got the Middle East to this point. It's going to take a big shift in thinking to stabilize the Middle East, and it has to start with teh population there getting rid of this notion of a theocracy. That is the common feature of every country these people want to flee TO---the presence of a stable, secular government.
6
I have been waiting for this to happen in Europe. You just don't accept one refugee. A refugee's thoughts, money and efforts will be focused on those left behind and how to rescue them. Yes, Germany accepted one million but there are several million relatives poised to follow.
11
Parts of the world which lack access to birth control thanks to conservative religions create unsustainably large families, as many good-hearted Canadians are finding out.
14
th west cannot absorb an unlimited number of uneducated unskilled people and still maintain th standard of living that makes th west so desirable for people to immigrate to
14
Putin is undermining Europe by flooding it with refugees. Destroying cities and nations unleashes a wave of humanity into Europe. It will destroy Russia in ten years. Russia's population is aging, Europe now has its demographics if it has the wisdom to turn asylum seekers into a generation of workers for its factories and taxpayers for its coffers.
1
Keep dreaming; Russia's population won't age for at least a generation. Overpopulation's after-effects are always worse than those of an aging population.
8
Finally. The NY Times backs down from its earlier stance on Syrian refugees.
Armchair liberals should heed the host's assessment that her helps end here, only one family and that's it.
Armchair liberals should heed the host's assessment that her helps end here, only one family and that's it.
17
Such a powerful way of telling the story, thank you! The problem is so overwhelming, it is helpful to bring it back to individuals.
So many have contributed their own stories or spoken of their feelings and concerns, I have little to add, but will try one thing, because it has been puzzling to watch the growing heartlessness across my land. I have some sympathy for those struggling who don't want to take on more. But this story brings one clear point forward:
People don't want to help one person, because if they do, it will open their hearts and minds to how much more needs doing, and how little they are sharing.
But closing our hearts and minds diminishes us.
So many have contributed their own stories or spoken of their feelings and concerns, I have little to add, but will try one thing, because it has been puzzling to watch the growing heartlessness across my land. I have some sympathy for those struggling who don't want to take on more. But this story brings one clear point forward:
People don't want to help one person, because if they do, it will open their hearts and minds to how much more needs doing, and how little they are sharing.
But closing our hearts and minds diminishes us.
10
My father, older and with more direct experience of history and immigration, reminded me of another thing. In the times when we were all immigrants, there weren't the problems of legal constraints that prevented newcomers from finding jobs and integrating over decades. We also have had incredible population growth just in this century. It is no longer an open country with plenty for all (if you ignore the depradations we inflicted on the natives, which have only come to light in the last half century or so. When I went to school it was all manifest destiny and our rights and exclusion/racism were the norm. Those were not the good old days, not by a long shot.
2
Heartless is having four kids in an over populated world.
15
Since when is common sense and realism "hartlessness"? The surging populations in the ME are unsustainable. Allowing millions to flood into Europe, the US and Canada is unrealistic, and may eventually lead to serious civil unrest.
10
I am curious as to why the NYT would publish this article. Was it to show Canadians as childish do-gooders who will surely fail and reek havoc on the Western Hemisphere? 90% of the comments are condescendingly negative. Why bother? Most Americans know absolutely nothing about Canada. So again, what was the point?
2
I admit I am a terrible person, but I can't help the phone thing stayed with me for most of the article. I am sure her phone is smarter than mine.
9
I'm surprised at the lack of empathy displayed in many of the comments. Yes there are problems and no we can't take care of everyone. But the amount of blaming of people who are victims of war is inexcusable. Not everyone adjusts quickly or easily to new circumstances.
4
Lack of empathy? Let their fellow Muslims take them in. There's your lack of empathy.
19
Thank you for this informative insight into the deeper aspects of the refugee situation. I wish the U.S. would do more, but the billionaires in charge have told their Congress not to.
4
I thought that perhaps, this article also appeared in the Toronto paper. I wanted to see the comments. My experience is that, despite claims to the contrary, Canadians are very much like Americans on certain issues. For example, when the Niagara schools wanted to cancel Halloween a couple of years ago because not all immigrants wanted to participate, and it was deemed an event that excluded them. The comments on assimilation were identical to those seen in the US concerning similar issues.
However, I couldn't find any mention of it. How very odd.
However, I couldn't find any mention of it. How very odd.
13
No, we are not all immigrants.
That's pollyanna-ish nonsense.
Yes, our ancestors were "immigrants", and some were conquerors and treasure-seekers and buccaneers.
But ancestors were then.
This is now.
Obsession with ancestors -- and revanchism for wrongs allegedly suffered by ancestors -- is a never ending path soaked in blood and tears.
We can learn from studying what ancestors did -- and did not do -- and whether or not they did it well -- so long as the study is either clinically scientific and morally neutral or measures morality by the standards of the times then.
Measuring the morality of actions ancestors hundreds of years in the past by the standards of today is historical chauvinism, and justifying actions today by actions of ancestors hundreds of years ago is false moral equivalence.
That's pollyanna-ish nonsense.
Yes, our ancestors were "immigrants", and some were conquerors and treasure-seekers and buccaneers.
But ancestors were then.
This is now.
Obsession with ancestors -- and revanchism for wrongs allegedly suffered by ancestors -- is a never ending path soaked in blood and tears.
We can learn from studying what ancestors did -- and did not do -- and whether or not they did it well -- so long as the study is either clinically scientific and morally neutral or measures morality by the standards of the times then.
Measuring the morality of actions ancestors hundreds of years in the past by the standards of today is historical chauvinism, and justifying actions today by actions of ancestors hundreds of years ago is false moral equivalence.
29
When all is done and if ever Syria returns to some form of its former self, will any of the refugees spread around Europe, North America, Lebanon and Jordan ever return? Don't count on it. There has been a mass exodus of the educated class. Who will manage with the future brain drain, over there?
Then we'll have a new swarm of people. It's endless war, famine and lack of natural resources forever. Permanent immigration.
The question I have is, ''Why Syrians?". Were not the Sudanese or Congolese or the half dozen other areas of the world, flooded with refugees, count any less? Why not Ukrainians? Or Chechnyians? There will be refugees from Yemen coming down the pike, followed by many millions more. Oh and don't forget those climate change refugees from South Pacific island atolls. And....
Then we'll have a new swarm of people. It's endless war, famine and lack of natural resources forever. Permanent immigration.
The question I have is, ''Why Syrians?". Were not the Sudanese or Congolese or the half dozen other areas of the world, flooded with refugees, count any less? Why not Ukrainians? Or Chechnyians? There will be refugees from Yemen coming down the pike, followed by many millions more. Oh and don't forget those climate change refugees from South Pacific island atolls. And....
25
And they all deserve our tax dollars and our compassion, and our homes, and our jobs, and our social services....more than WE deserve them.
20
You're not kidding: locals in Europe are denied benefits (paid for with our own taxes!) that are then allocated to migrants. It's unbelievable.
12
Some of these "refugees" have actually started leaving their European host countries because they're not happy with how cold or quiet or [enter shallow complaint by people who aren't real refugees here]. They say they prefer their home country, which we're all sitting here thinking is at war but what do we know.
As for the rest, they're sitting here on an all-expenses paid ticket so no, they're not going anywhere. Oh, wait, they do go to their supposed war-torn countries on vacation (also paid for by the European tax payer).
As for the rest, they're sitting here on an all-expenses paid ticket so no, they're not going anywhere. Oh, wait, they do go to their supposed war-torn countries on vacation (also paid for by the European tax payer).
6
I notice the most popular posts are the ones that say we should send money to Syrian families in Syria so that they can educate their children there, rather than accept refugees here. Such an argument seems to betray no understanding of why people become refugees. If the armed forces of your own government are dropping cluster bombs on your neighbourhood because you are unlucky enough to live in a rebel-held area, what do you do? You take your children and you run. Your former home is a war zone. You are a refugee. There are currently millions of people around the world in that situation. Any discussion of what we should or should not do needs to begin with an acknowledgement of that reality.
18
The "reality" is that "we" here in the USA cannot absorb "millions of people from around the world" regardless how dire their "situation". If you, "over the rainbow" ,believe otherwise, then take them into your OZ. As for Canada, Canadians can make their own decision.
As for the USA, how many refugees can "we" take?
I myself would not object to taking in 50,000 in a single year -- but only if that number is subtracted from the total inflow of all other immigrants.
And, if the 50,000 are all Syrians, then no other refugees from anywhere else.
Yes, it does come down to numbers -- just like almost everything else.
There is no coherent way around that.
So, I say, one million total immigrants per year-- counting everyone, in all categories, including all "refugees", from everywhere.
Then sub-divide the one million into various categories of immigrants --
refugees, immigrants with various special skills, immigrants with various family connections, etc. Just so the total dos not go over one million.
Whatever the legal or moral justification for admitting "refugees", or for giving them a separate sub-category, they are immigrants, and the sub-limit for their category needs to be fit within the overall total limit on all immigrants.
Why one million total?
That's one million per year, total.
So, in ten years, ten million, total.
That's a ten per cent increase in population over ten years. That's plenty.
As for the USA, how many refugees can "we" take?
I myself would not object to taking in 50,000 in a single year -- but only if that number is subtracted from the total inflow of all other immigrants.
And, if the 50,000 are all Syrians, then no other refugees from anywhere else.
Yes, it does come down to numbers -- just like almost everything else.
There is no coherent way around that.
So, I say, one million total immigrants per year-- counting everyone, in all categories, including all "refugees", from everywhere.
Then sub-divide the one million into various categories of immigrants --
refugees, immigrants with various special skills, immigrants with various family connections, etc. Just so the total dos not go over one million.
Whatever the legal or moral justification for admitting "refugees", or for giving them a separate sub-category, they are immigrants, and the sub-limit for their category needs to be fit within the overall total limit on all immigrants.
Why one million total?
That's one million per year, total.
So, in ten years, ten million, total.
That's a ten per cent increase in population over ten years. That's plenty.
16
And there is 60,000 homeless people in New York City, a record that has not garnered even one headline on the front page of the NY Times. Many are families. There is no program for New York families to take them in that I know of. And this is happening all around the country.
33
@Rob: it must be worse than THAT, because a recent article on homeless CHILDREN in NYC, in this very publication, stated there are 83,000 homeless children. Just in this one metropolitan area!
That is, of course, directly due to the very high cost of housing here.
But it is OK to leave AMERICAN CHILDREN living on the street in abject poverty -- because the money should be spent on SYRIAN children, and ensuring they have enough fancy toys and dolls and computers, while their parents don't work or even try to learn English!
That is, of course, directly due to the very high cost of housing here.
But it is OK to leave AMERICAN CHILDREN living on the street in abject poverty -- because the money should be spent on SYRIAN children, and ensuring they have enough fancy toys and dolls and computers, while their parents don't work or even try to learn English!
24
Although i am a teacher with some graduate degrees under my belt, i did not quality to become a citizen of Canada. It made sense that Canada's resources cannot cover older people for future medical care....I wonder how Canada's health service will pay for all these people who do not pay taxes.
43
Answer: Canada's Health Services will be unable to care for these immigrants without raising taxes. Probably by a significant amount.
18
So, raise taxes. I notice that Sweden, Norway etc have given wonderful lifelong care for its people, by having high taxes. The MANY people in the USA who evade taxes ( can you think of any???) should be tarred and feathered. On TV. At least, print all their names. I am ashamed of the USA allowing them to hide.
4
Wrong.
2
I am wondering about efforts by the UN or the Peace Corps or similar organizations to teach English in the refugee camps themselves. Is this a possibility? That would help the family in the camp where the father can't afford to send the 5 year old to school. It would give a head start to the refugees when they are lucky enough to be relocated. In addition, I would think it would give them hope, and on days where they could not secure work, they could still feel productive learning a language.
10
The liberals have adopted race, religion and culture mixing as one of their prime ideological goals. Any criticism of this, is banned and attacked with shrill name calling, labeling and banning from the discussion table, if at all possible.. All negative effects and problems are ignored or dismissed, and simplistic babble like we are "a nation of immigrants" repeated as it means anything. The problems will come in the future.
40
What a strain this must be on the generous Canadians who have given so much of themselves. I wonder if the Canadian government or the UN High Commission on Refugees have any insight on the dilemma(s) now faced regarding family still in the old country or refugee camps.
Personally, off the top of my head and being an amateur on this subject, I think it would be good to have as a goal that the refugees currently in Canada be responsible for bringing any relatives over, once they are settled and employed. I think it's really asking too much for the individuals already helping to help more families. In the interim, however, if there are ways other Canadians (and maybe other North Americans) could help through money contributions for specific authorized projects (like money for school fees for kids in refugee camps), then perhaps that would be a worthwhile undertaking.
Personally, off the top of my head and being an amateur on this subject, I think it would be good to have as a goal that the refugees currently in Canada be responsible for bringing any relatives over, once they are settled and employed. I think it's really asking too much for the individuals already helping to help more families. In the interim, however, if there are ways other Canadians (and maybe other North Americans) could help through money contributions for specific authorized projects (like money for school fees for kids in refugee camps), then perhaps that would be a worthwhile undertaking.
4
Someone, perhaps their sponsor or the church, should sit the Hajj family down and speak to them IN SYRIAN, in simple terms they would understand -- that they won a kind of "lotto" and it only extended to the immediate family. And there is NO help out there for other relatives -- none. Not at taxpayer or even donor expense.
That if the Hajj's wish to bring their siblings and cousins to the US....Mr. Hajj will have to get off his duff, learn ENGLISH and get a JOB.
That is the only way, period. That is what my OWN immigrant family did in the 1920s. They worked, scrimped and saved to bring over other relatives -- including sponsoring my maternal grandfather's siblings and their spouses & kids, which meant PLEDGING to pay their bills if they could not! (The ungrateful relatives took this support -- got jobs and never repaid my grandfather. It broke his heart.)
If you allow chain migration...it NEVER ends. Eventually the whole village or region will end up on your doorstep -- with their palms outstretched.
That if the Hajj's wish to bring their siblings and cousins to the US....Mr. Hajj will have to get off his duff, learn ENGLISH and get a JOB.
That is the only way, period. That is what my OWN immigrant family did in the 1920s. They worked, scrimped and saved to bring over other relatives -- including sponsoring my maternal grandfather's siblings and their spouses & kids, which meant PLEDGING to pay their bills if they could not! (The ungrateful relatives took this support -- got jobs and never repaid my grandfather. It broke his heart.)
If you allow chain migration...it NEVER ends. Eventually the whole village or region will end up on your doorstep -- with their palms outstretched.
20
Canada will reap the brainpower of men, women and children who will develop and contribute to the culture and economy of a thriving Canada. For this, Canada isn't lucky; it is smart.
Will some of these tales turn bad? Of course they will. We're dealing with human beings after all. But these outliers will be minuscule in proportion to the lives nurtured along with the country and the people with the wisdom to welcome them.
www.endthemadnessnow.org
Will some of these tales turn bad? Of course they will. We're dealing with human beings after all. But these outliers will be minuscule in proportion to the lives nurtured along with the country and the people with the wisdom to welcome them.
www.endthemadnessnow.org
6
brain power? If they are all like the mother in this story who was only interested in her phone and having kids, I'm not so sure
20
Yeah, it's working out really well here in Europe. #sarcasm
8
The difference between the many of the most highly recommended comments from the U.S. verses Canada speaks volumes on the people and society of each country. I never appreciated Canada and Canadian values more.
8
So, no doubt all your fellow Canadians agree with you?
No doubt that's why so many Canadians do not migrate to the USA?
And why those born in neither the USA nor Canada prefer Canada?
Oh no, wait, hold on, that's not right, not quite: here it is,
straight from Statistics Canada:
http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/11-008-x/2010002/t/11287/tbl001-eng.htm
"Annual migratory exchanges between Canada and the United States",
counting not only Canadian-born coming here from Canada,
biut also Canadian-born returning to Canada from the USA,
and USA-born going to Canada from the USA
and also USA-born returning to the USA from Canada,
and also, in good earnest Canadian detail,
third-country-born (i.e. born in neither the USA nor Canada)
both those migrating from Canada onward to the USA,
and those migrating from the USA onward to Canada.
Advance notice:
In all categories, the flow out from Canada into the USA
exceeds, by significant margins, the flow out from the USA into Canada,
including the particularly relevant (apropos the NYT story) category for persons born in a country other than either the USA or Canada.
So, looks like USA might see significant numbers of those Syrian refugees after all,
by way of Canada.
No doubt that's why so many Canadians do not migrate to the USA?
And why those born in neither the USA nor Canada prefer Canada?
Oh no, wait, hold on, that's not right, not quite: here it is,
straight from Statistics Canada:
http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/11-008-x/2010002/t/11287/tbl001-eng.htm
"Annual migratory exchanges between Canada and the United States",
counting not only Canadian-born coming here from Canada,
biut also Canadian-born returning to Canada from the USA,
and USA-born going to Canada from the USA
and also USA-born returning to the USA from Canada,
and also, in good earnest Canadian detail,
third-country-born (i.e. born in neither the USA nor Canada)
both those migrating from Canada onward to the USA,
and those migrating from the USA onward to Canada.
Advance notice:
In all categories, the flow out from Canada into the USA
exceeds, by significant margins, the flow out from the USA into Canada,
including the particularly relevant (apropos the NYT story) category for persons born in a country other than either the USA or Canada.
So, looks like USA might see significant numbers of those Syrian refugees after all,
by way of Canada.
20
Refugees have always looked to their children as their best hope in a new land. The mother who is keeping in constant contact with her distant family is only making it more difficult for herself, her husband, and children. She needs to embrace her new country and and new opportunities. Asian immigrant women work in nail salons in order to provide for their families. This woman must do something similar and not spend all day pining for the past. Her focus should be providing for her children's success.
34
Lots of scolding here. Don't see that as justified, and certainly at most is counter-productive. The idea that if you live in a historically refugee welcoming nation you must therefore continue to accept refugees is not sensical if it's supposed to be argument. The USA was a slavery nation for much of its existence.
11
How are the refugees screened? Why do they admit people who are illiterate? The adult members of this family seem to have no job skills. From articles I have read in the New York Times and other publications many Syrians seeking to immigrate are literate and speak English.
Are contraceptives available in refugee camps. I wonder why the refugees aren't using them. It is not a good idea to produce children when you have no possibility of supporting them. I am pessimistic that children subjected to such poor circumstances are going to become doctors and engineers.
Are contraceptives available in refugee camps. I wonder why the refugees aren't using them. It is not a good idea to produce children when you have no possibility of supporting them. I am pessimistic that children subjected to such poor circumstances are going to become doctors and engineers.
42
You might be interested to know that these are not the only illiterate refugees to come to North America. Some of my own ancestors -- from places like England, Scotland and Ireland -- were illiterate. Not only that, but some of them had huge families, and most of the women never worked.
3
My husbands grand parents were illiterate. In those days (about 1900) there were plenty of jobs for illiterate people. Welfare was not available. My husband's grandmother did work and she raised two children on her own. She had a factory job sewing decorations on women's hats. She was also capable of finding her way around New York on her own. She didn't have a kind lady guiding her. These people had to sink or swim, and those that survived swam.
13
"How are the refugees screened?"
Very rigorously. Most of the Syrian refugees coming to Canada have been in Jordan, Lebanon and Turkey for several years, so quite a bit is known about them. Once they are identified for possible resettlement in Canada they are subjected to scrutiny through various Canadian and international databases. Then they are interviewed at length, often several times.
"Why do they admit people who are illiterate?"
Because people who have been too poor to have had even rudimentary schooling are often the most vulnerable, and Canada has chosen to make the most vulnerable our priority. These are people who had precious little to begin with; now, they have nothing, and nothing to go back to. And their host countries aren't exactly wealthy themselves, so prioritizing the neediest refugees helps them, too.
"It is not a good idea to produce children when you have no possibility of supporting them."
Paradoxically, having lots of kids is a rational choice if you are poor and the government does not provide a safety net for the disabled and elderly.
"I am pessimistic that children subjected to such poor circumstances are going to become doctors and engineers."
Our experience, and we have a lot of it, has been that the kids, especially the youngest, will do well, and that their kids will do even better.
Very rigorously. Most of the Syrian refugees coming to Canada have been in Jordan, Lebanon and Turkey for several years, so quite a bit is known about them. Once they are identified for possible resettlement in Canada they are subjected to scrutiny through various Canadian and international databases. Then they are interviewed at length, often several times.
"Why do they admit people who are illiterate?"
Because people who have been too poor to have had even rudimentary schooling are often the most vulnerable, and Canada has chosen to make the most vulnerable our priority. These are people who had precious little to begin with; now, they have nothing, and nothing to go back to. And their host countries aren't exactly wealthy themselves, so prioritizing the neediest refugees helps them, too.
"It is not a good idea to produce children when you have no possibility of supporting them."
Paradoxically, having lots of kids is a rational choice if you are poor and the government does not provide a safety net for the disabled and elderly.
"I am pessimistic that children subjected to such poor circumstances are going to become doctors and engineers."
Our experience, and we have a lot of it, has been that the kids, especially the youngest, will do well, and that their kids will do even better.
7
This is a very nice story but coming from a majority Muslim country, I have my doubts. There is no way non-Muslims can live in the same house as Muslims unless one of these happens, the non-Muslims accommodate the Muslim values (and there are tons of them) or the Muslims park their Muslim values temporarily. This is allowed in Islam and can be compensated later by earning points. Jihad earn tremendous points. Now you see the light?
44
"I'm going to get my own job and pay for my own phone." This is a threat she made to her husband? And he takes it as one?
The fact that both she and her husband agree that her getting a job is not a good idea is a big red flag. Given their skills and education, number of children, plus sponsorship of extended family, both must work.
Where does a shepherd, who cannot read or write in any language, find work in urban Toronto? Did no one think this through? Sponsors are not social welfare agencies or the World Bank.
It's interesting to see other nations dip their toes in the massive immigration tidal wave and then try and lecture the US about how things should be done.
The US has the longest history of taking in immigrants of all races, ages, and circumstances in the largest numbers, than any other western nation on the planet. Currently we have 42.1 million foreign born people living here as of 2015. That's more than the entire population of Canada (about 35 million).
We know how long it takes, how expensive it is and that children of the first generation often lack family support to succeed. It's hard to move late in life to a new country, new culture, new language, new occupation. A certain percentage do not succeed. It is not a character flaw, it's just difficult to immigrate, to not acknowledge this is unfair to immigrants and their hosts.
Good luck to the immigrants and their sponsors. They're all going to need it.
The fact that both she and her husband agree that her getting a job is not a good idea is a big red flag. Given their skills and education, number of children, plus sponsorship of extended family, both must work.
Where does a shepherd, who cannot read or write in any language, find work in urban Toronto? Did no one think this through? Sponsors are not social welfare agencies or the World Bank.
It's interesting to see other nations dip their toes in the massive immigration tidal wave and then try and lecture the US about how things should be done.
The US has the longest history of taking in immigrants of all races, ages, and circumstances in the largest numbers, than any other western nation on the planet. Currently we have 42.1 million foreign born people living here as of 2015. That's more than the entire population of Canada (about 35 million).
We know how long it takes, how expensive it is and that children of the first generation often lack family support to succeed. It's hard to move late in life to a new country, new culture, new language, new occupation. A certain percentage do not succeed. It is not a character flaw, it's just difficult to immigrate, to not acknowledge this is unfair to immigrants and their hosts.
Good luck to the immigrants and their sponsors. They're all going to need it.
45
maryann, the population of the United States is roughly ten times that of Canada. Just as it is misleading to compare, say, GDP of the U.S. to a country one-tenth it's size without correcting for population, so is it misleading to compare total immigrants. If you check the Wikipedia article "List of countries by foreign-born population" you will see that the percent foreign-born population in Canada (20%) is one and one-half times that of the U.S. (13.1%). And that is immigrants, not refugees. According to the most recent World Bank report I could find (mid-2015, before the recent wave of Syrian refugees discussed in this article), the number of refugees accepted per 1000 inhabitants was 4.15 for Canada versus 0.83 for the U.S. In other words, a given city or town in Canada is hosting five times as many refugees as a city or town of the same size in the U.S.
3
We have a lot of migrants from South and Central America; they do not apply for legal status; they walk across borders and streams, and disappear in communities with relatives, or people who speak their language. We also have migrants from Canada who walk across the border in Vermont and the mid-West; we have migrants from the Caribbean who enter via Florida and the Gulf States. They also disappear into the larger population. We have 330,000,000 people +/-. We can't keep track of all who enter the country, so they do not appear in any statistical studies you might have read. Somehow, we manage.
6
ojalaquellueva,
Your argument is misleading because it presumes that the population of immigrants is evenly distributed. 59% of undocumented immigrants in the US reside in just 5 states. So no, its factually incorrect to say that any given Canadian town is hosting 5 times as many refugees as any US city of the same size.
Syrians refugee? Maybe.
Total refugees or total immigrants? Or even percentage of the total? No chance.
The other disappointing part of your post is you do not mention the crisis in Mexico and how little Canada does to take in Mexican refugees. You take in 25,000 Syrians.and effective Dec 1 of this year you've agreed to take 3500 Mexicans, but reserve the right to restrict immigration if requests for Asylum exceed that number.
You have restricted immigration from Mexico for years.
Like I said, I appreciate this is new to many Western Countries, but it's been a way of life here in the US for a very long time.
Your argument is misleading because it presumes that the population of immigrants is evenly distributed. 59% of undocumented immigrants in the US reside in just 5 states. So no, its factually incorrect to say that any given Canadian town is hosting 5 times as many refugees as any US city of the same size.
Syrians refugee? Maybe.
Total refugees or total immigrants? Or even percentage of the total? No chance.
The other disappointing part of your post is you do not mention the crisis in Mexico and how little Canada does to take in Mexican refugees. You take in 25,000 Syrians.and effective Dec 1 of this year you've agreed to take 3500 Mexicans, but reserve the right to restrict immigration if requests for Asylum exceed that number.
You have restricted immigration from Mexico for years.
Like I said, I appreciate this is new to many Western Countries, but it's been a way of life here in the US for a very long time.
11
My understanding is that contraception is generally deemed permissible by the Islamic faith. Is there no access to birth control, even in the form of condoms, by most people in Syria and Lebanon? I am not being snarky nor disdainful; I am genuinely hoping to find out from someone who knows, because I find it very hard to understand why people in such desperate circumstances continue to have additional children. Thank you.
45
There's proverb "Children are a poor man's treasure."
When you are poor, children are an economic resource, they are not a burden.
Children can work, and in poor nations and agrarian cultures, they can do so early. 6, 7, 8 years old, they start helping their parents. Begging, cooking, sewing, collecting garbage, helping grow food, tend animals, even watch younger children. Even when formal education is an option, families forego it, because they cannot take the hit to their bottom line.
The more children, the more resources, Even in the West, social benefits are granted on a per child, rather than per family basis. In poor countries, there without social benefits programs, children become your retirement system/IRA.
Birth control isn't popular due to a lack of education. It's unpopular due to the net economic impact on the family.
When you are poor, children are an economic resource, they are not a burden.
Children can work, and in poor nations and agrarian cultures, they can do so early. 6, 7, 8 years old, they start helping their parents. Begging, cooking, sewing, collecting garbage, helping grow food, tend animals, even watch younger children. Even when formal education is an option, families forego it, because they cannot take the hit to their bottom line.
The more children, the more resources, Even in the West, social benefits are granted on a per child, rather than per family basis. In poor countries, there without social benefits programs, children become your retirement system/IRA.
Birth control isn't popular due to a lack of education. It's unpopular due to the net economic impact on the family.
24
Thanks, Maryann. This is helpful, though I am still having some trouble applying it to situations where families find themselves in the midst of a horrendous, years-long civil war, or when they are fleeing or living in refugee camps.
17
Here's a dose of reality....the number of people living in NYC has reached a record 60,000, many are families. If anyone has ridden the subway in the past six months, there has been an incredible increase of people living on the trains and in the stations. The subway in the early morning are rolling homeless shelters. For the first time I'm seeing people camped out on park benches where there have never been before. Are these not refugees, too?
35
Rob, these are 'The Homeless' we are seeing, often victims of the Great Recession. They are seeking refuge in the subway and train stations, considered safer than housing shelters, in need of alms and basic living essentials more than ever because Winter is approaching. They are not fleeing from a war-zone country under fire. This is where spare change may come in handy when venturing out.
1
You are completely missing the point.
Meanwhile, the IOC does nothing for their fellow muslims.
Meanwhile, the IOC does nothing for their fellow muslims.
6
@Miss Ley: please remind me why we must take care of refugees, when OUR OWN CITIZENS are reduced to living in the subways, homeless and hungry?
7
When faced with danger, all creatures make one of two choices: Fight or flight. The Israelis chose fight. Too many choose flight. Don't flee the Taliban, fight back. The opportunity does exist to resist. The US offered weapons, training, air power, etc. Almost all preferred to flee and make babies. Too bad.
15
The Afghan refugees are fleeing the Taliban. These are Syrian refugees.
2
They are supposed to stop at the first safe place; in this case, Turkey. They continue on, hoping to reach what they believe to be richer countries with better benefits. They will eventually overwhelm the safety nets which were not created to service millions of people. We have paid Turkey to keep and care for these refugees/migrants; what has happened to the money? Turkey is shoving them forward to someplace else via illegal smugglers routes.
22
the solution to war zones and failed states is not for everyone within them to leave.
"family unity" is the least of the humanitarian problems for those who manage to flee these areas and for those who remain behind.
most of these areas have a legacy of corruption, flimsy or lacking rule of law, impoverished infrastructure, lack of foreign investment, and a culture entirely out of harmony with the norms of the developed world -- east or west.
whose "fault" is all that? and whose "responsibility" is it to fix, and by what means? we are all happy to evade clear answers to these questions. instead we cluck sympathetically, send insufficient amounts of foreign aid, and pride ourselves on how well our immigrants are doing.
the premise of this article is that the developed world has "won" and the rest have "lost", but in the long view, in the evolutionary view, it's the marginal populations that survive when the dominant populations perish of their own excesses.
the fact is that life remains cruel and difficult no matter how we try to hedge or gloss that fact. there is no perfect world, so long as human hands are necessary to make it.
"family unity" is the least of the humanitarian problems for those who manage to flee these areas and for those who remain behind.
most of these areas have a legacy of corruption, flimsy or lacking rule of law, impoverished infrastructure, lack of foreign investment, and a culture entirely out of harmony with the norms of the developed world -- east or west.
whose "fault" is all that? and whose "responsibility" is it to fix, and by what means? we are all happy to evade clear answers to these questions. instead we cluck sympathetically, send insufficient amounts of foreign aid, and pride ourselves on how well our immigrants are doing.
the premise of this article is that the developed world has "won" and the rest have "lost", but in the long view, in the evolutionary view, it's the marginal populations that survive when the dominant populations perish of their own excesses.
the fact is that life remains cruel and difficult no matter how we try to hedge or gloss that fact. there is no perfect world, so long as human hands are necessary to make it.
10
Remember the Tsarnaevs -- supposedly model immigrants till they bombed the Boston Marathon; remember San Bernardino; remember Nice and Munich and Wuerzburg and Orlando and Normandy and Chelsea -- the truth is that no one knows who will turn to violence, but it will happen.
48
I love Canada for this. If you want to take them all, go ahead and do it. You are a vast country and are unlikely to ever fill it up. If Syrians want to go to Canada I hope they are able to. If you need more than go to Germany and get them out of there as well. Most of the world do not see them as refugees but invaders. Take a look at Britain, Germany and Sweden. See how well it worked out for them. Long live Canada. Now do more.
15
No Muslims should be allowed to immigrate anywhere unless they agree to confine themselves to no more than two kids and agree to discard the Islamic dress for the women. That would really, finally allow them to make a better life for themselves and for the hosts who generously let them move there.
55
I am truly disgusted by this comment and disheartened that 36 readers "recommended" it. It comes from a place of hate. Would you also suggest that Hasidic Jews and the Amish living among the rest of us do the same? After all, both sects generally have large families and wear funny clothes.
This is the United States. We welcome all with any open hand and hopefully, an open heart.
These people are fleeing a war zone. They witnessed horrors that I hope none of us commenting hear will ever experience.
Perhaps, if you can't say something nice, or useful, you say nothing at all.
This is the United States. We welcome all with any open hand and hopefully, an open heart.
These people are fleeing a war zone. They witnessed horrors that I hope none of us commenting hear will ever experience.
Perhaps, if you can't say something nice, or useful, you say nothing at all.
4
"Would you also suggest that Hasidic Jews and the Amish living among the rest of us do the same?"
Yes, I would.
Yes, I would.
8
I used to be one of those "Oh, let's help everyone and not generalize" type of person till I came to Europe. Now I say: no Muslims at all in Europe.
10
When my Slovenian grandmother emigrated to America in 1909, she was one of five siblings who, one after the other, was sent money for steamship ticket by one of her older sibs. who had immigrated, The new-comer would leave their homeland forever to live in America with the sib's family for 2-3- years and work off the debt by helping around the house, taking care of children, cooking, outdoor labor, etc; None of them spoke any English but they learned. Ms al-Hajj needs to put down her phone and get serious about immersing herself in her new land.
59
Mr. al-Hajj needs to get over himself and his disdain for available work to help his family, and relieve some of the debt incurred by his sponsors. He looks arrogant for a man who is functionally illiterate with no job skills, other than sheep herding.
31
Welcome to that Muslim problem Europeans have been trying to tell you all about.
6
This is an exhausting article to read on a light Sunday morning....it's not as if the election hasn't drained us already.
13
Over at the Times of London there's a tour de force about the Yahzidi women and children airlifted into Germany. The Germans isolate them in the woods because 1) they're in danger from other refugees in Germany, and 2) their trauma is so extreme. We could offer better. Only 700k and most in the camps - although interestingly, the men who escaped are fighting with the Peshmerga. If we're going to bring people here, we should focus on the groups who have no chance regardless of regime because they are Christian, secular, or of a sect out of favor.
28
My husband and I helped a refugee family from Afghanistan for many years until they were finally assimilated. They are hard working, proud citizens of the US who are always ready and willing to help others in need. They fled Afghanistan during the Taliban years because they wanted their children to be educated in something other than hatred.
Both parents, though educated, worked in low skill jobs to give their children what they needed to attend school.
Three of their 4 children have now graduated from college, and the 4th is doing very well in high school.
It has been our pleasure to be a small part of their success in the US.
Kudos to the Canadians for helping this family.
Both parents, though educated, worked in low skill jobs to give their children what they needed to attend school.
Three of their 4 children have now graduated from college, and the 4th is doing very well in high school.
It has been our pleasure to be a small part of their success in the US.
Kudos to the Canadians for helping this family.
26
The Afghans have a proud warrior and tribal culture. The Syrians do not. There is a very big difference between the two. I had a neighbor who fought in Afghanistan; he admired them and would have brought at least one of them to the U.S. They refused to leave their families and friends; they were not opportunists looking for an easy life. They were used to a hard life. They had border problems with the Pakistanis, and with drug lords. That said, my neighbor the Marine, thought they were an incredible people.
13
Yet again, Ms. Kantor writes as the conscience of the privileged--and it takes impossibly little to be more privileged than the desperate families waiting for respite from the conditions of war in the Syria. Kantor's illumination of this parallel reality, unfolding as we go about our seemingly oblivious days--and Canada's willingness to wrestle with it--should shame our own leaders, whose political shenanigans look absurdist by comparison.
11
What a wonderful article as it reveals the complexities of these immigration issues with specific human dilemmas. Like most complicated issues, there are no easy answers, nor is there a single correct approach to the refugee crisis as many commenters suggest. Even within the family profiled, the conflict between helping oneself or over extending one's reach is heartbreaking. Expanded to all the refugees the scope of the suffering does seem insurmountable. Yet, helping one family at a time combined with a global approach to root problems can stem some misery. In the end all any of us can ever do is to try and make the world better a little bit at a time. I admire these women for doing their part.
7
Re: teaching Ms. al-Hajj English. Treat her like an adult. Forget "dog, banana." Use the words in the school bus schedule or the electric bill or the subway map--words that she has an interest in knowing. And please don't talk to her in "foreigner English." Why not say "Wissam, this isn't garbage" instead of "Wissam, no garbage"?
23
duchien: I disagree, having tutored functionally illiterate teens years ago. I started with old Dick and Jane books; they went through those fast. We moved on until I found a book about the West and Indians. Then they really started to read. Once you have some basics, rely on their age. Get the basic vocabulary and sentence structure down; then, find a subject of interest. How many of us ever finish a really boring book?
7
First of all, these refugees should be specified as economic refugees not fleeing-for-their-lives refugees. This alone would balance the west's discussion of the refugees' plight.
There are just so many examples of outright irresponsibility throughout this article. A child conceived in a refugee camp. The selfish crab-barreling of the relatives back home. The lack of gratitude of the al-Hajjs toward their host family in their even considering asking them to sponsor more of their relatives; give an inch...
Parenting skills? Not quite: "Sometimes she woke her 10-year-old son, Majed, in the middle of the night for technical help." Really?
Illiterate? In a country like Syria, which has enjoyed more relative prosperity than many other countries in the region?
There are just so many examples of outright irresponsibility throughout this article. A child conceived in a refugee camp. The selfish crab-barreling of the relatives back home. The lack of gratitude of the al-Hajjs toward their host family in their even considering asking them to sponsor more of their relatives; give an inch...
Parenting skills? Not quite: "Sometimes she woke her 10-year-old son, Majed, in the middle of the night for technical help." Really?
Illiterate? In a country like Syria, which has enjoyed more relative prosperity than many other countries in the region?
61
Read the first article, where he refused a job in a Syrian grocery store, because he thought that perhaps he might like to be a mechanic, even though he is illiterate, meaning he isn't computer literate. He was annoyed with one sponsor for pushing the part-time job.
I was taught that there is no shame in hard work, and any job is better than none. I would think working would increase his interactions, and, frankly, perhaps a similar job would work for his wife. Interacting with people, and in a setting which would help with English, and Arabic, literacy.
A mechanic is a nice goal, but requires literacy. They should have short term goals and long term goals, like college students working as restaurant servers.
I was taught that there is no shame in hard work, and any job is better than none. I would think working would increase his interactions, and, frankly, perhaps a similar job would work for his wife. Interacting with people, and in a setting which would help with English, and Arabic, literacy.
A mechanic is a nice goal, but requires literacy. They should have short term goals and long term goals, like college students working as restaurant servers.
32
Thank you NYT for a follow up story on this family. Kudos to these ladies who have taken them under their wings. How can I help? I am here in Chicago.
7
This article focuses on the Canadian experience / challenge of hosting Muslim refugees, but there must be plenty of stories in the US, of Americans supporting large Somalia communities, etc. There must be success stories but there are also an unbelievable number of Somalia refugees who are ISL supporters / fighters. This challenge will only increase in the US, Hillary has promised as much, to increase the allotment of Syrians by 550%, and Wikileaks revealed that she told the banks in a closed speech that she supports open borders.
Who benefits from this mass Muslim migration to Western host countries? Certainly not the ordinary Western citizens. As many commenters have stated, it would be a far wiser policy to help the people in their home region, in safe haven countries, where the aid money goes much further, and lobby for the rich gulf countries to host their cultural, linguistic and religious brethren. That would be real leadership, for Hillary, Trudeau, Merkel, etc. to reach an agreement with these gulf countries to do the hosting, and leave it to the West to host the persecuted religious minorities, i.e., Christians and Yazidis. But this real leadership is sorely lacking, and the ordinary Western citizen will continue to pay the price for this failed leadership.
Who benefits from this mass Muslim migration to Western host countries? Certainly not the ordinary Western citizens. As many commenters have stated, it would be a far wiser policy to help the people in their home region, in safe haven countries, where the aid money goes much further, and lobby for the rich gulf countries to host their cultural, linguistic and religious brethren. That would be real leadership, for Hillary, Trudeau, Merkel, etc. to reach an agreement with these gulf countries to do the hosting, and leave it to the West to host the persecuted religious minorities, i.e., Christians and Yazidis. But this real leadership is sorely lacking, and the ordinary Western citizen will continue to pay the price for this failed leadership.
46
Remember these illegals and refugees all get visas to the USA from Canada. Canada is just a stop over.
25
Canada does not issue American visas, last I checked.
17
But the American embassy in Canada does.
8
Exceptional piece of journalism. Kudos to the sponsors and I wish the family who has settled in Toronto nothing but the best. I'm sad that the mom is not taking full advantage of the opportunity and is spending so much time on her phone instead of working to build an independent life in Canada. Someone needs to explain to her that bringing her dear friends and family over to Canada is linked to her own family's success at settling and becoming independent. The father seems to get that. I think she needs some additional support and may in fact be suffering from some form of PTSD.
21
This is right on. These well-meaning sponsors are on the hook for only a year, and then the Canadian taxpayer is up to the plate. There have been reports in the media that some of the refugees are already going to food banks. The best thing the sponsors can do is not treat these people like children, but help them get on their feet as fast as quickly as possible. Being on welfare will not make their lives or the lives of their children better. That means telling the mother to knock off the yawning at English class. The sooner she learns English, stops having more children, and helps her own children succeed, the sooner she can help her family here and maybe someday abroad. On top of that she has moved to one of Canada's most expensive cities. Literally, there is no time to waste!
25
The mother tore up and threw away her reading material; the father thinks he would like to be a mechanic. They are both illiterate, so learning anything will take some study which neither one of them are doing. Somebody told them stories about what they were entitled to once they arrived in Canada or the U.S. They are not entitled to anything other than basic services for refugees. They both need to take learning to read seriously.
24
In the late 1970s, my friends and I sponsored a Laotian hill tribe family in Connecticut. The father had served with American troops and when Laos fell to the Pathet Lao, he and his family escaped to Thailand, where they spent three years in dismal conditions waiting for someone to rescue them. They arrived with virtually nothing, wearing pieces of rope tied around their wrists to ward off evil. They were illiterate. The father initially resisted learning English because he just wanted to work. Today they and their many children and grandchildren are thriving. I see them and the rope-wearing mother on Facebook, using Snapchat and going to the mall. The kids and now grandkids are doing well, employed, going to school and living the American dream. Anyone who thinks immigration, including refugees, aren't good for the country needs to go meet a few people and see how truly American they and their stories are.
24
It is no longer the 1970s -- many jobs that were held by unskilled workers have been moved offshore. The remaining jobs have been turned into "gig" type situations with no benefits and low wages. The amount of public funding for social services is also being eroded by a diminished tax base. What was possible for an immigrant in the 1970s is not at all achievable today. Continuing automation, IA and use of robots will mean even less opportunity for unskilled laborers.
32
I felt compassion for this refugee family. My feeling is that they need to work very hard to get themselves on their feet and then they can sponsor family to come. Their hardest task to master the language and learning to read and write, once they can do that, everything else will be easier. It is a lot of hard work. But they need to leave off the communicating with family overseas to once a week so they can focus. Many immigrants come here to the US and scrape a small gift together once a month to send to their family at home. Maybe they can get some advice from refugees who have succeeded?
18
There wouldn't even be a war in Syria if Syrians like Ms. al Hajj didn't have "16 siblings and half siblings," not to mention a new child of her own every single year.
71
Nice. Like she has a choice in the matter. And those women Trump assaulted were just asking for it, right?
2
Please explain so the rest of us can understand.
4
J - it isn't Mrs Hajj's fault, and I'm sorry if it seemed like I was saying it was. It's the fault of the patriarchal, clan-based, non-education-valuing society she's part of (and into which she has become thoroughly indoctrinated), a society (like most developing world societies) that creates population pressures that make exploitation and conflict inevitable.
And RB surely you can understand that societies that bring more kids into the world than they have any hope of providing a decent, much less a comfortable, life for are going to suffer from all kinds of disfunctionalities, up to and including civil war.
The Canadian refugee sponsors that now find themselves faced with requests to sponsor 16 more families for just one side of the family they've already sponsored, are beginning to get an inkling of the magnitude of the problem. The developing world needs education for its girls and birth control for its women. Nothing else is going to be enough.
And RB surely you can understand that societies that bring more kids into the world than they have any hope of providing a decent, much less a comfortable, life for are going to suffer from all kinds of disfunctionalities, up to and including civil war.
The Canadian refugee sponsors that now find themselves faced with requests to sponsor 16 more families for just one side of the family they've already sponsored, are beginning to get an inkling of the magnitude of the problem. The developing world needs education for its girls and birth control for its women. Nothing else is going to be enough.
21
I never hear it questioned regarding Syrian refugees how many were, in fact, well off supporters of the Assad Regime who just decided to get out of Damascus while the going was good. Many of them seem very amply resourced. But as long as they fit the profile for our self ennobling compassion, what's the difference. Sort of like the Germans who showed up in Argentina in '46, and decades later played an active role in the military juntas and dirty wars against its own citizens. Any vetting?
26
Patrick,
Does this include the toddlers and young children in this grim scenario who find themselves in a country named 'WAR'? Some of us have had the privilege of working for journalists who have been on site, helping the rescue of civilians trying to flee a massive fire of destruction.
Thinking of a friend who did not stand in the light of the day until Berlin was liberated during WWII and his testimony. He was only six at the time. Later, he was to take on the cause of children everywhere. A great host and diplomat, he could be incorrigible at times but those of us who know him to this day, remember that he invited some of us to come along with him.
A Belgium journalist in Vietnam who wrote 'The Sparrows of Saigon', a great wit and hard working, he was to bring the best out of us and was kind. Recently, I asked an American-Iraqi friend, once responsible for recruiting professionals of all nationalities to go out on dangerous assignments.
When asking her about 'The Children of Gaza', she replied that they would not want to leave their families because they might never come back.
Could the NY Times, as suggested by some others, keep the Public momentum alive to help these refugees, with reminders and posting reliable sites on their page, that will accept funds for those of us who are able to make a valid contribution of some kind?
Does this include the toddlers and young children in this grim scenario who find themselves in a country named 'WAR'? Some of us have had the privilege of working for journalists who have been on site, helping the rescue of civilians trying to flee a massive fire of destruction.
Thinking of a friend who did not stand in the light of the day until Berlin was liberated during WWII and his testimony. He was only six at the time. Later, he was to take on the cause of children everywhere. A great host and diplomat, he could be incorrigible at times but those of us who know him to this day, remember that he invited some of us to come along with him.
A Belgium journalist in Vietnam who wrote 'The Sparrows of Saigon', a great wit and hard working, he was to bring the best out of us and was kind. Recently, I asked an American-Iraqi friend, once responsible for recruiting professionals of all nationalities to go out on dangerous assignments.
When asking her about 'The Children of Gaza', she replied that they would not want to leave their families because they might never come back.
Could the NY Times, as suggested by some others, keep the Public momentum alive to help these refugees, with reminders and posting reliable sites on their page, that will accept funds for those of us who are able to make a valid contribution of some kind?
5
We in the US should follow Canada's example in being more generous to Syrian refugees. However, everyone should be more realistic -- to expect refugees to assimilate to the point of functionality in one year is impossible. "Sponsorship" or support should be a 3-5 year time commitment, depending on the size of the family unit.
And it should be stipulated that if refugees wish to bring other family members over eventually, they will have to achieve certain benchmarks first -- competence in English (or the language of whatever host nation), employment, and to be self-supporting after that 3-5 yr period of sponsorship.
And it should be stipulated that if refugees wish to bring other family members over eventually, they will have to achieve certain benchmarks first -- competence in English (or the language of whatever host nation), employment, and to be self-supporting after that 3-5 yr period of sponsorship.
23
I like your idea. I will add one more thing here... that the refugees will assimilate better in the US than in Canada and I explain.
The big problem in Canada, and Australia is that we have this welfare safety net that keeps on giving people monies. In the US they have to work and get jobs or they do not eat. So, faced with that situation the refugees will look for things to do and starting earning revenues. Look at all the illegal Mexicans they do all sorts of work. So, legal unskilled refugees, can start to fill those positions - and I am so well aware of the "educated" jobs but someone does have to clean the tables at a restaurant or be the warehouse guy and that does not require a bachelor of arts or science! Furthermore, the government must mandate language courses that make the person really functional and not where the refugees knows that my name is Abdul, and I have a green pencil and I want water... they need to be able to speak and write proper English - we are bad at that here, our immigrant English courses are not very well designed and we pay a lot for them to schools that go around teaching it.
The big problem in Canada, and Australia is that we have this welfare safety net that keeps on giving people monies. In the US they have to work and get jobs or they do not eat. So, faced with that situation the refugees will look for things to do and starting earning revenues. Look at all the illegal Mexicans they do all sorts of work. So, legal unskilled refugees, can start to fill those positions - and I am so well aware of the "educated" jobs but someone does have to clean the tables at a restaurant or be the warehouse guy and that does not require a bachelor of arts or science! Furthermore, the government must mandate language courses that make the person really functional and not where the refugees knows that my name is Abdul, and I have a green pencil and I want water... they need to be able to speak and write proper English - we are bad at that here, our immigrant English courses are not very well designed and we pay a lot for them to schools that go around teaching it.
10
We should support foreign refugees for 3-5 years? When our domestic welfare programs allow for only 2?
36
Perhaps they would assimilate better in your country?
9
To those who say don't bring refugees here but instead help them there, we have an immediate humanitarian crisis resulting from the war in Syria, and the refugees from that war are in danger of dying NOW. To address the immediate crisis, the United States and Canada are far better able to absorb refugees than Western Europe, for a couple of reasons:
First, population density. The U.S. has an average population density of 84 people per square mile; Canada has 3. Europe is far more crowded: The UK has 650 people per square mile, Germany 235, the Netherlands 491. Try finding a place to park in any European city. With that level of crowding, tolerance for accepting refugees is far more limited in Europe than it is here.
Second, ethnicity. The U.S. and Canada are multiethnic and multicultural. It's one of our great strengths. Refugees arriving here are far more culturally welcome, and can generally assimilate and become hyphenated Americans, or just Americans, within a generation. In Europe, by contrast, each country has its own dominant ethnicity, language, and entrenched cultural sensitivities. Algerians in France or Turks in Germany (for example) have found find it almost impossible to assimilate even if they want to.
So bravo to the good-hearted Canadians described in this report!
First, population density. The U.S. has an average population density of 84 people per square mile; Canada has 3. Europe is far more crowded: The UK has 650 people per square mile, Germany 235, the Netherlands 491. Try finding a place to park in any European city. With that level of crowding, tolerance for accepting refugees is far more limited in Europe than it is here.
Second, ethnicity. The U.S. and Canada are multiethnic and multicultural. It's one of our great strengths. Refugees arriving here are far more culturally welcome, and can generally assimilate and become hyphenated Americans, or just Americans, within a generation. In Europe, by contrast, each country has its own dominant ethnicity, language, and entrenched cultural sensitivities. Algerians in France or Turks in Germany (for example) have found find it almost impossible to assimilate even if they want to.
So bravo to the good-hearted Canadians described in this report!
7
At any given time there are twenty other ongoing wars, in Africa, South America, and Asia. We are supposed to bring them all here? No.
I suspect that most of these pro immigrant comments here aren't really from New York or Ohio but coming from Europe and the Middle East.
I suspect that most of these pro immigrant comments here aren't really from New York or Ohio but coming from Europe and the Middle East.
27
You make 2 points I don't agree with.
1. You claim that Europe is more crowded than the US or Canada, and that, therefore, The US and Canada are better suited to accept more migrants. But you conveniently forget that our low pop. density hides the contrast between uninhabited areas like the deserts, mountains, and farming areas, and our overcrowded cities. Do you think that the refugees are going to build their own cities in the desert, or come and pile up in our already overcrowded cities? In the same vein, do you really want to reach the same population density as the European countries mentioned?
2. You claim that European countries have a dominant ethnicity, language, and entrenched cultural sensitivities, and that that situation is in contrast with the US. Where have you been living? The US has a dominant ethnicity, language, and culture, even though the Left seems determined to replace them with anything from the third world. Those who have most successfully immigrated here and assimilated are the same who have done so in France and Germany: Europeans and Asians, for the most part. France has successfully assimilated Poles, Italians, Spaniards, Germans, Vietnamese, etc.., to the point the only way to tell one of them has foreign roots (except for the Asians) is by the surname. Contrast that with those from the Muslim world who've been living there in great numbers since the sixties, and their lack of assimilation. Common denominator with Syrian refugees: Islamic culture
1. You claim that Europe is more crowded than the US or Canada, and that, therefore, The US and Canada are better suited to accept more migrants. But you conveniently forget that our low pop. density hides the contrast between uninhabited areas like the deserts, mountains, and farming areas, and our overcrowded cities. Do you think that the refugees are going to build their own cities in the desert, or come and pile up in our already overcrowded cities? In the same vein, do you really want to reach the same population density as the European countries mentioned?
2. You claim that European countries have a dominant ethnicity, language, and entrenched cultural sensitivities, and that that situation is in contrast with the US. Where have you been living? The US has a dominant ethnicity, language, and culture, even though the Left seems determined to replace them with anything from the third world. Those who have most successfully immigrated here and assimilated are the same who have done so in France and Germany: Europeans and Asians, for the most part. France has successfully assimilated Poles, Italians, Spaniards, Germans, Vietnamese, etc.., to the point the only way to tell one of them has foreign roots (except for the Asians) is by the surname. Contrast that with those from the Muslim world who've been living there in great numbers since the sixties, and their lack of assimilation. Common denominator with Syrian refugees: Islamic culture
30
I'm a pro-immigrant commenter from NY, a child of immigrants and married to an immigrant.
We cannot obviously help everyone in the world, and it can be discouraging to read about the many people in desperate need, but as descendants of immigrants and to live up to our ideal of ourselves as good people, we should try to help those we can. And history has shown that our centuries of immigration have only strengthened our country and made it the most resilient in the world.
We cannot obviously help everyone in the world, and it can be discouraging to read about the many people in desperate need, but as descendants of immigrants and to live up to our ideal of ourselves as good people, we should try to help those we can. And history has shown that our centuries of immigration have only strengthened our country and made it the most resilient in the world.
4
We, in Canada, are not responsible for each and every person that has become a "refugee." We have a lot of our own Canadian citizens whom I see as beggars on the metro and on the streets. Perhaps all the folks who are interested in assisting the people 10,000 miles away can find solutions for the people who are "local" refugees, i.e. are homeless for one reason or another. We have people here who cannot pay their heating bills, their food bills, ad infinitum.
I understand the problems of people in Lebanon or Syria but I am more concerned about ensuring that we do not become like them there as the English say "a stitch in time saves nine" we need to fix our issues.
In re the refugees who are being pulled back then if they prefer the life in Syria, or Lebanon, be my guest and please return to that way of life.
Like one of the other commentators mentioned we are all immigrants, and I am one of those immigrants. However, I have worked very very very hard to make my life here, I have worked at nights and gone to universities (yes I have been to more than one) during the day and earned my degrees so I can be comfortable. There was a time in my life when I worked 21 hours a day over one summer so I can save for my university semester and I did it for 3 months - I was VERY TIRED after that. I never look back or worry about what happens back THERE. Yes, I do send money now, but that is because my mother is 84 years old and my father has passed away.
Welcome to Canada and WORK HARD
I understand the problems of people in Lebanon or Syria but I am more concerned about ensuring that we do not become like them there as the English say "a stitch in time saves nine" we need to fix our issues.
In re the refugees who are being pulled back then if they prefer the life in Syria, or Lebanon, be my guest and please return to that way of life.
Like one of the other commentators mentioned we are all immigrants, and I am one of those immigrants. However, I have worked very very very hard to make my life here, I have worked at nights and gone to universities (yes I have been to more than one) during the day and earned my degrees so I can be comfortable. There was a time in my life when I worked 21 hours a day over one summer so I can save for my university semester and I did it for 3 months - I was VERY TIRED after that. I never look back or worry about what happens back THERE. Yes, I do send money now, but that is because my mother is 84 years old and my father has passed away.
Welcome to Canada and WORK HARD
33
Very interesting comment from NA in Montreal:
First,
Every comment from Canadians is interesting (at least for me) because, of course, Canada is Canada and not the USA. (Many commentators here (including me) are American, which primarily reflects that the NYT is an American publication.) I enjoy participating. But I think we all become a little bit repetitive among ourselves.
Second,
Its the first comment from PQ that I have observed in this thread. (Did I miss one?)
Third,
NH's comment is (I think) quite lucid and comprehensive.
Fourth,
NH's comment differs substantially from those of many other Canadian comments.
Always good to have a robust debate -- and to observe a robust debate among others.
First,
Every comment from Canadians is interesting (at least for me) because, of course, Canada is Canada and not the USA. (Many commentators here (including me) are American, which primarily reflects that the NYT is an American publication.) I enjoy participating. But I think we all become a little bit repetitive among ourselves.
Second,
Its the first comment from PQ that I have observed in this thread. (Did I miss one?)
Third,
NH's comment is (I think) quite lucid and comprehensive.
Fourth,
NH's comment differs substantially from those of many other Canadian comments.
Always good to have a robust debate -- and to observe a robust debate among others.
6
This is one of the best New York Times pieces I've read about the refugee crisis, since it delves into the long-term challenges of integrating refugees into a new culture instead of simply haranguing host societies for failing to take more refugees, now, now, now!
(Can't speak for Canada, but in Europe and the US most refugees are parked far away from the homes and schools of the elites. In Germany, they are quartered in impoverished parts of East Germany, and the largest community of U.S. Syrian refugees is in Boise, Idaho.)
While some Syrians are very highly educated, a large number of refugees from the area - like the family in the article - are illiterate even in their own languages and are unlikely to ever find long-term work in a knowledge-based society.
Unlike in times of previous waves of immigration to North America, from the English to the Germans to the Irish to the Slavs to the Hungarians in 1956, there is currently not a substantial demand for unskilled labor in the host countries; I doubt the parents in the article will ever be self-supporting.
The children described in the article may get a solid education and thrive in Canada, and I hope they do.
But I also hope that Canada does not import so many people unable to work or integrate that it creates the permanent underclass that already exists in Belgium, France, and the Scandinavian countries.
(Can't speak for Canada, but in Europe and the US most refugees are parked far away from the homes and schools of the elites. In Germany, they are quartered in impoverished parts of East Germany, and the largest community of U.S. Syrian refugees is in Boise, Idaho.)
While some Syrians are very highly educated, a large number of refugees from the area - like the family in the article - are illiterate even in their own languages and are unlikely to ever find long-term work in a knowledge-based society.
Unlike in times of previous waves of immigration to North America, from the English to the Germans to the Irish to the Slavs to the Hungarians in 1956, there is currently not a substantial demand for unskilled labor in the host countries; I doubt the parents in the article will ever be self-supporting.
The children described in the article may get a solid education and thrive in Canada, and I hope they do.
But I also hope that Canada does not import so many people unable to work or integrate that it creates the permanent underclass that already exists in Belgium, France, and the Scandinavian countries.
49
Canada is NOT importing these people. They are coming of their own accord, happily and greedily. They want to get away from the wars and say they want better lives for themselves but they don't seem to want to work for these privileges.
Universally illiterate sheepherder refuses job in warehouse because he'd like to be a mechanic?
Equally illiterate housewife who tears up English grammar book and spends hours every night on the phone with family she left behind? (BTW who is paying for her cell phone bills?)
Yea, they sure break my heart. Both my grandfathers died of black lung from 16 hr days in American coal mines in the early 20th century. No social services for my grandmothers and their kids. But those women learned English, worked as maid scrubbing floors cleaning toilets at the local gin mill and made sure their kids went to school every day before the KIDS went to jobs. That's why my parents got 8-hr a day jobs, owned their own home and sent me and my brother to 4 year universities.
Universally illiterate sheepherder refuses job in warehouse because he'd like to be a mechanic?
Equally illiterate housewife who tears up English grammar book and spends hours every night on the phone with family she left behind? (BTW who is paying for her cell phone bills?)
Yea, they sure break my heart. Both my grandfathers died of black lung from 16 hr days in American coal mines in the early 20th century. No social services for my grandmothers and their kids. But those women learned English, worked as maid scrubbing floors cleaning toilets at the local gin mill and made sure their kids went to school every day before the KIDS went to jobs. That's why my parents got 8-hr a day jobs, owned their own home and sent me and my brother to 4 year universities.
42
Just isn't true. In Germany the refugees and migrants are distributed all over the country. Every city and every town has to offer apartments or hotel rooms to house. They offer classes to learn German and to learn to know how the country functions. Government institutions and businesses work together to create special apprenticeship programs for those who didn't learn a profession and on and on...
3
(Not Mark) That's not true about Germany. I've lived there often in the past and recognize the many places the refugees are living. They are all over the country, many in old American military kasernes and housing areas.
3
I live in Israel, an immigrant from the US (expat) (where my grandparents were immigrants), who willingly moved here, and arrived already speaking, reading, and writing Hebrew well enough to function fairly well, especially in a country where so many people speak English. And yet, "absorption" is not easy - after 26 years, I wouldn't say I'm totally "absorbed". There are cultural differences that exist forever. This article strengthens my appreciation of how, in spite of all sorts of mistakes and ways that the State of Israel could have done better to absorb its immigrants, what they accomplished - doubling its population with immigrants, pretty much all refugees either from DP camps or from Arab countries within a few years after its founding, they did an amazing job. There were many waves of immigrants that followed, and always a trickle, and, yes, depending upon where people come from and their level of education, it takes some more and some less time to become independent and productive. Absorbing immigrants (refugees or not) requires huge investment (financial and human resources) on the part of the host countries, but the rewards do come. Like we say here, kol ha-kavod (all the respect, or "hats off") to the Canadians.
10
Glad America was able to be of service to, as well as invest in, your immigrant relatives, and to you as well.
Just wondering, did you keep your American citizenship when you migrated to Israel?
Do your family member keep citizenship paper handy so they can traverse this country with free benefits even thought you are now an Israeli?
Just wondering, did you keep your American citizenship when you migrated to Israel?
Do your family member keep citizenship paper handy so they can traverse this country with free benefits even thought you are now an Israeli?
The biggest problem here is that the sponsors are doing everything for the family. The father should be able to find his own way to a subway station. The mom should get rid of the nun's outfit, learn English, and get a job. As long as they keep the old customs, they will be completely dependent on their sponsors. It was far different when my grandparents came over. There were thousands of factory jobs for illiterate, poor, uneducated people. They didn't need to learn English. You can't compare the 1860s or even the 1920s to today. It was a far different world. What will happen in 20 years when robots are doing most of the jobs?
61
We'll have to let the robots from war-torn countries come here. They'll already know machine language, so it won't be quite the challenge it is now.
5
I see many people disparaging refugees who are illiterate. Yes, they will have more challenges than a literate, skilled, or well-educate refugee. But some of these comments state outright that the refugees will never become literate as though it were fated or a cognitive defect. By far, I would bet the reasons they are illiterate is because of lack of opportunity to go to school not some inborn issue. If they are given a chance to learn, I have no doubt many will become literate. There are folks born here in the US who look "American" that cannot read despite having a free public education yet we do not write them off at 20,30, 40, 50 or beyond as never being able to read.
5
Illiterate, non-English speaking people will be on state and federal aid programs until they die. Can we make that any clearer?
54
The point you're missing, although you acknowledge the factors leading to it, is that we have our own under-employed, uncared-for underclass. Taking in refugees from any country is tantamount to throwing our own underclass under the bus. No sane society can do that and claim to be civilized at the same time.
27
And how do you know that? A lot of times, the kids grow up and support the parents starting from their teens and 20s. And the parents do go on to learn English. How many refugees do you know?
Whether it is a desperate refugee, or a relative who is an alcoholic, or a friend who is going through financial difficulties, I have learned two basic principles: First, I'll gladly provide support, money, and time, and do what I can do help, as long as the other person's problems do not drag me down and become my problems. Second, if my support, money, time, and effort won't make a difference, there are always other deserving causes instead.
42
Beach tourism continues along much of the Syrian coast. Aleppo is another story.
The Russian Federation and Iran are supporting the Assads and the Alawite minority who still control most of Damascus by bombing the rebels in Aleppo. Hence, it would be fair were Moscow and Tehran to take in the Alawite refugees who cannot find shelter elsewhere in Alawite controlled Syria.
Saudi Arabia, the Gulf States and Turkey are supporting the Sunni Arab-speaking majority who oppose the Assads and the Alawite hegemony, so they should take in Syrian Sunni Arab refugees.
Turkmen Syrian refugees can find a home in Turkey. Syrian Armenians should look to Armenia.
The Syrian refugeees that have no nationstate, one that reflects their own ethnicity, to take them in, are the Sunni Syrian Kurds and the Christian Syrian Assyrians.
The Russian Federation and Iran are supporting the Assads and the Alawite minority who still control most of Damascus by bombing the rebels in Aleppo. Hence, it would be fair were Moscow and Tehran to take in the Alawite refugees who cannot find shelter elsewhere in Alawite controlled Syria.
Saudi Arabia, the Gulf States and Turkey are supporting the Sunni Arab-speaking majority who oppose the Assads and the Alawite hegemony, so they should take in Syrian Sunni Arab refugees.
Turkmen Syrian refugees can find a home in Turkey. Syrian Armenians should look to Armenia.
The Syrian refugeees that have no nationstate, one that reflects their own ethnicity, to take them in, are the Sunni Syrian Kurds and the Christian Syrian Assyrians.
18
After reading this wonderful article, I am shocked by all of the negative, cynical and critical comments. These people who hosted refugees have done a wonderful thing by opening their home to a family in need, something that most of us haven't done, and as with anything there are difficult issues to face. Sometimes it just isn't possible to invest more in a region. This region is being devastated by a war whose players include groups that emerged following the Iraq war, something that our country has full responsibility for. It seems like people have forgotten that detail, these refugees are also our responsibility.
9
Syria was not devastated by the Iraq War.
The Iraq War may have been wrong.
But it did not devastate Syria.
BTW, Spain is much closer to Syria than either the USA or Canada.
Turkey and Egypt and the Persian (Arabian) Gulf states still closer -- very close -- and all are Muslim, as are the refugee/immigrants in the story -- and each with populations in the upper eight figures -- more than enough to absorb several thousands of Muslim refugee/immigrants. Whatever the variations within the Muslim world, those variations are far less than between that world and the Western world. Assimilation there ought to be much easier there.
Host countries have every right to insist on assimilation.
The Iraq War may have been wrong.
But it did not devastate Syria.
BTW, Spain is much closer to Syria than either the USA or Canada.
Turkey and Egypt and the Persian (Arabian) Gulf states still closer -- very close -- and all are Muslim, as are the refugee/immigrants in the story -- and each with populations in the upper eight figures -- more than enough to absorb several thousands of Muslim refugee/immigrants. Whatever the variations within the Muslim world, those variations are far less than between that world and the Western world. Assimilation there ought to be much easier there.
Host countries have every right to insist on assimilation.
53
I am an American citizen living in Spain.
So how many is Canada supposed to save? History tells us that Muslims don't assimilate. Their culture is too different. Let's hope that what is happening in Germany and Sweden with their refugees doesn't happen to Canada. I think countries in the Middle East should take them. Hear that Saudi Arabia? Israel? Any takers? . . . I didn't think so. Maybe we can set up a new country for them in Africa? But no . . . they have to be flown to the other side of the world. This will be a huge mistake.
44
Lisa, I think you live in some cave or under a rock. "Muslims do not integrate." It may surprise you to know that your doctor is probably a Muslim, the nurse in that hospital is a Muslim, the guy behind the counter at the convenience store is a Muslim, your father's cardiologist is a Muslim, that taxi you took the other day - the driver is more than likely a Muslim, and yes, your landlord may even be a Muslim - if you are renting.
Muslims are EVERYWHERE in NORTHERN CALIFORNIA, I used to live in SF for some time, and they are everywhere in Sydney Australia and all across Australia.
The problem is not being Muslim. The problem is that these folks lack education which, at their ripe old age, they are not likely to get. So, hopefully, their children will better integrate. The issue of low paying, not living wages, is huge issue in North America. Here, we have living wages, the guy working at Woolworths (your equivalent Kroger, HEB etc.) at night is getting 17, 18 dollars an hour. Yes, our groceries are bit more expensive but we pay our people better. The waiters in restaurants are not getting $2.10 per hour plus tips here- they are getting 15 dollars or more per hour.
Muslims will integrate everywhere without any issues. It is the lack of education that is the issue here, and for that reason our government does not want refugees for we KNOW that we will be responsible for their entire lives, we do have welfare - a bad word in USA.
Muslims are EVERYWHERE in NORTHERN CALIFORNIA, I used to live in SF for some time, and they are everywhere in Sydney Australia and all across Australia.
The problem is not being Muslim. The problem is that these folks lack education which, at their ripe old age, they are not likely to get. So, hopefully, their children will better integrate. The issue of low paying, not living wages, is huge issue in North America. Here, we have living wages, the guy working at Woolworths (your equivalent Kroger, HEB etc.) at night is getting 17, 18 dollars an hour. Yes, our groceries are bit more expensive but we pay our people better. The waiters in restaurants are not getting $2.10 per hour plus tips here- they are getting 15 dollars or more per hour.
Muslims will integrate everywhere without any issues. It is the lack of education that is the issue here, and for that reason our government does not want refugees for we KNOW that we will be responsible for their entire lives, we do have welfare - a bad word in USA.
3
Which Muslims? Not the illiterate. Not those waiting to establish the new caliphate. Screening is both vital and impossible. Now what?
21
There is no such thing as "Muslim culture". Not any more than there is, or ever was, such a thing as a single "Christian culture" stretching out from Russia to Argentina, from the US Bible Belt to the UK. Just as there are considerable cultural differences between Christians around the world, there are also cultural differences between Muslims around the world. If you want to talk about whether Muslims can assimilate, any discussion will have to begin with an accurate understanding of who they are. And Canada already has many Muslim immigrants, from many different cultures around the world, who have integrated just fine.
1
Steven Jobs was Syrian . . . quite possibly there is another Mr. or Mrs. Job stuck in a refugee camp and caught in a crossfire somewhere in Syria or elsewhere in this world. Just think of all those engineers, cooks, doctors, janitors, teachers, mothers, fathers, children, future Nobel prize winners stuck in some hellhole. Fellow humans all with the same dreams and aspirations. One world, one race - the human race.
6
Steve Jobs was born in the USA.
His biological father was born in Syria.
HIs biological mother was born in the USA, as were her two parents, and her four grandparents.
His adoptive father (the one named Jobs) was born in the USA, as were his two parents and his four grandparents.
His adoptive mother was born in the USA.
His adoptive parents adopted him at a very early age.
HIs education was entirely within the USA.
So, a long ways from immigrant to great innovator.
Further, even if Steve Jobs himself were an immigrant, millions of immigrants are not the great innovators that he was.
One of a million, or even 1,000 out of a million, are not good odds for opening up borders to all comers.
Numerical limits are needed.
The numerical limits need to be enforced.
Standards need to be set for who gets into the "numerus clausus" for immigration.
And the standards need to be enforced.
The concept of numerus clausus might be bad if the standards are racial or ethnic.
The concept of numerus clauses is perfectly acceptable if the standards are not racial -- for example, skill based, such as language and literacy.
When it comes to English, there is no need to worry about a shortage across racial lines. The pool of Anglophones around the world is wide and deep.
If the standards allow French, as an alternative to English, fine -- for Canada -- although the pool of Francophones is smaller. Tant pis pour le Quebec.
His biological father was born in Syria.
HIs biological mother was born in the USA, as were her two parents, and her four grandparents.
His adoptive father (the one named Jobs) was born in the USA, as were his two parents and his four grandparents.
His adoptive mother was born in the USA.
His adoptive parents adopted him at a very early age.
HIs education was entirely within the USA.
So, a long ways from immigrant to great innovator.
Further, even if Steve Jobs himself were an immigrant, millions of immigrants are not the great innovators that he was.
One of a million, or even 1,000 out of a million, are not good odds for opening up borders to all comers.
Numerical limits are needed.
The numerical limits need to be enforced.
Standards need to be set for who gets into the "numerus clausus" for immigration.
And the standards need to be enforced.
The concept of numerus clausus might be bad if the standards are racial or ethnic.
The concept of numerus clauses is perfectly acceptable if the standards are not racial -- for example, skill based, such as language and literacy.
When it comes to English, there is no need to worry about a shortage across racial lines. The pool of Anglophones around the world is wide and deep.
If the standards allow French, as an alternative to English, fine -- for Canada -- although the pool of Francophones is smaller. Tant pis pour le Quebec.
22
American science, medicine, art, and business benefited greatly from Jewish and other refugees who came to the US during and after WW2. Many US Nobel prize winners were refugees. A lot of famous people now immigrated here as children or are the children of refugees.
2
Yes, many (thousands) of great immigrant scientists and engineers.
But many thousands more American born, with American parents.
And millions of immigrants who are not great scientists or engineers.
So the fact that many, even thousands, of immigrants are/were great scientists is not a reason to open up our borders to all comers.
Limits need to be set.
There can be sub-limits for various categories.
Various categories -- and sub-limits --can be reserved for scientists, etc.
But each category needs to have standards.
The limits and the standards need to be enforced.
BTW,
Andy Grove, an immigrant, has been lionized -- particularly here in California -- with justification -- for his role in Intel, one of the great Silicon Valley companies of all time (so far, anyway).
But, contrary to the popular lionization, Grove was not a founder of Intel.
The founders of Intel were two great engineers, Gordon Moore and Robert Noyce, both born in America, to American parents.
But many thousands more American born, with American parents.
And millions of immigrants who are not great scientists or engineers.
So the fact that many, even thousands, of immigrants are/were great scientists is not a reason to open up our borders to all comers.
Limits need to be set.
There can be sub-limits for various categories.
Various categories -- and sub-limits --can be reserved for scientists, etc.
But each category needs to have standards.
The limits and the standards need to be enforced.
BTW,
Andy Grove, an immigrant, has been lionized -- particularly here in California -- with justification -- for his role in Intel, one of the great Silicon Valley companies of all time (so far, anyway).
But, contrary to the popular lionization, Grove was not a founder of Intel.
The founders of Intel were two great engineers, Gordon Moore and Robert Noyce, both born in America, to American parents.
15
Although I understand the impulse to say something like "what really needs to happen is to fund education, infrastructure, clean water projects, etc in Syria and not to bring more refugees over to North America", I unfortunately have little confidence in those models. For decades, rich, Western countries have tried this stuff (not always for the purest of reasons), and more often than not, they have made these problems worse. This is typically due to the incredible complexity of these problems and the economic, social, historical, and political contexts that they rest in. It's easy to suggest that we just build more schools and provide more food for these countries going through such terrible strife, but these problems go so much deeper than that.
It makes me think of the eternal development dilemma - do you spend lots of money now to try to stop the worst of the bleeding (which is really just a stop gap), or instead look to the much bigger, long term picture and try to address that instead? International aid groups and national governments have never quite struck that balance. And, honestly, achieving success in addressing that long term picture is so incredibly rare (as far as I can tell).
For now, I wish the refugees a warm welcome to Canada. We're happy to have you.
It makes me think of the eternal development dilemma - do you spend lots of money now to try to stop the worst of the bleeding (which is really just a stop gap), or instead look to the much bigger, long term picture and try to address that instead? International aid groups and national governments have never quite struck that balance. And, honestly, achieving success in addressing that long term picture is so incredibly rare (as far as I can tell).
For now, I wish the refugees a warm welcome to Canada. We're happy to have you.
4
Some cultures are better than others, and I do not issue a warm welcome to the incorrigible ones. These societies are in flames for a reason.
29
As well intentioned as the host families seem to be, their expectations seem completely unrealistic, and they even sound a bit patronizing. This seems to me to be the basic problem. It is impossible to get an completely foreign family on their feet, expecting illiterate rural people to learn English fluently and become literate in that new language in a year, enough to find a non manual job and become independent in a year!! The kids may be able, but not the adults. They may learn to get by orally and it will take much more longer, if at all, to become literate. Why can't they work in a fast food job or some other kind of work that does not require language skills? They will definitely not be able to maintain the style of life and the level that the sponsors are giving them. It does seem like a bit of a fun project for the sponsors more than an actual plausible one. Why don't they simply provide the infrastructure and some income and let the migrant families make their own decisions? All of these visits and supervisions seem a bit invasive and patronizing, however well intentioned. If they want to share their income with a less fortunate relative back home, why can't they? Migrants, by personal experience, will more often than not try to help relatives left in distress back home. They cannot just close the door, forget them and bask in their own good fortune. And that is noble, beautiful and human, families help each other.
5
You use the word "patronizing" repeatedly to describe thse Canadians who have tried to help newcomers settle into a new society, which I find both näive and deeply offensive. Europe has gone the route you suggested with refugees - simply giving them money and leaving them to their own devices - and the newcomers have ended up isolated in ghettos, unable to speak the local language or find employment, stuck on government transfer payments for a lifetime and becoming angrier by the generation. By contrast, a set-up in which locals in the host country get involved personally to make sure a refugee family feels comfortable in its new home and within its new surrounding cultures has proven repeatedly to be the most successful method for both the refugees themselves and the communities around them.
12
Jobs is the best aid they can give them and a good school for children. I applaud the help these private sponsors are giving but the expectations are absurd. They won't be able to make it in one year. Impossible. They can be available to them in so many ways,to help them navigate the place, give advise, find schools give allowances but they need to make decisions and find their own community too, as immigrants have always done.
2
And why can the sponsors not let the migrant families make some decisions? They can help sponsor the brother or the uncle or whatever. They do not need to pool in more money than what they have committed to. If the migrant family wants to lodge them in their apartment, share their food, the allowance they receive, that is fine. Eventually he may find manual work and bring in resources. Forget about the absurd dream of settling them as a middle class family in a year. The only ones who with time will be able to integrate fully are the children. The adults will NOT, especially if they are not educated. Help them find lapwing or manual jobs, whatever they can do ASAP. Put the kids in school and they will teach their parents English or help them navigate the new Canadian world. And stop all the gifts and toys. They may appreciate more an allowance that they have the autonomy to allocate.
10
This kindness can be afforded from individuals and communities, but when it becomes a national event it becomes a huge imposition by the elites sitting around the small table of Power forcing their views on the taxpayers.
Keep it small and personal, and hopefully the following generation won't become radicalized like the Tsarnayevs and so many Somalis and other Muslims in Minnesota, for one scary example. But they HAVE to adapt.
Adapting requires ongoing personal contact, and it can't just be some social worker from thirty miles away once a month.
Keep it small and personal, and hopefully the following generation won't become radicalized like the Tsarnayevs and so many Somalis and other Muslims in Minnesota, for one scary example. But they HAVE to adapt.
Adapting requires ongoing personal contact, and it can't just be some social worker from thirty miles away once a month.
17
One more and I hope the last comment on this article. There is something of great importance that is completely missing from this article by Jodi Cantor and colleagues, and that is information on Canadian policy concerning family members.
Here in Sweden where 180,000 asylum seekers came in during 2015 to a country with 10,000,000 people policy concerning family is a subject of intense discussion among all of the many political parties. Migrationsverket makes decisions on which family members might be allowed to come. So yes, as we read here, every newly arrived individual or family in Sweden must constantly deal with the situations described here for one family in Canada. Therefore it is essential to know what Canadian policy is and how "new Canadians" can tell family members "back home" if there is any chance of coming or not.
I do not understand why the authors do not see this information as being as important as the stories told them by family members who have been taken in by the Canadian government.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Dual citizen US SE
Here in Sweden where 180,000 asylum seekers came in during 2015 to a country with 10,000,000 people policy concerning family is a subject of intense discussion among all of the many political parties. Migrationsverket makes decisions on which family members might be allowed to come. So yes, as we read here, every newly arrived individual or family in Sweden must constantly deal with the situations described here for one family in Canada. Therefore it is essential to know what Canadian policy is and how "new Canadians" can tell family members "back home" if there is any chance of coming or not.
I do not understand why the authors do not see this information as being as important as the stories told them by family members who have been taken in by the Canadian government.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Dual citizen US SE
6
I've always been grateful to immigrants for the rich diversity they've added to American culture, and admired their courage in settling in a new land. But times are changing. Realities include jobs lost to China and Southeast Asia. Jobs lost to automation. The middle class losing ground. Climate change and global over-population putting a premium on land and resources. As such, it is foolish to keep bringing in more and more people and imagining quality of life won't go downhill for all.
39
Many of these comments reveal a misplaced fear of a Syrian Muslim refugee exodus into Western countries. Syrians first of all, in spite of circumstances, are tending not to leave their country. Instead, they are internally displaced, moving from danger to relative safety but within their own country. They number about 13.5 million, far more than the actual refugees - those who have crossed national borders - from Syria to other nations, most often to neighboring Jordan, Lebanon and Turkey.
An infinitely smaller number make their way to the West. The total number of Syrians who have fled Syria is about 5 million. 4.25 million of them are are in Jordan, Lebanon and Turkey. Of the remaining refugees, Canada has received about 21,000 with remarkable modesty and grace, Sweden about 30,000 and Germany about 250,000. The US has taken in a few thousand.
The fallacy of sociocentrism - manifest in these readers' comments or in the posturing of media or governments - is that the world revolves around the self and one's country or larger region, in this instance, the West, inflating national presumptions, when the facts are otherwise.
The central facts are that three countries not in the West have absorbed by far the largest number of Syrian refugees -- Turkey, Lebanon, and Jordan (2.7 million, 1.1 million and about 750,000 respectively). They get no credit but they should and yes, that means, Mr. Erdogan as well.
An infinitely smaller number make their way to the West. The total number of Syrians who have fled Syria is about 5 million. 4.25 million of them are are in Jordan, Lebanon and Turkey. Of the remaining refugees, Canada has received about 21,000 with remarkable modesty and grace, Sweden about 30,000 and Germany about 250,000. The US has taken in a few thousand.
The fallacy of sociocentrism - manifest in these readers' comments or in the posturing of media or governments - is that the world revolves around the self and one's country or larger region, in this instance, the West, inflating national presumptions, when the facts are otherwise.
The central facts are that three countries not in the West have absorbed by far the largest number of Syrian refugees -- Turkey, Lebanon, and Jordan (2.7 million, 1.1 million and about 750,000 respectively). They get no credit but they should and yes, that means, Mr. Erdogan as well.
5
They are receiving money to help with the care of the refugees. Lebanon and Jordan are overwhelmed, and Turkey will soon be overwhelmed. It is not possible for neighboring countries to absorb as many refugees who want to leave Syria completely. A protected, or safe zone is possible, rather than refugees wandering across various borders. Syria does not keep records, so vetting the refugees is difficult. Unemployment is a problem in Europe, especially in Italy and Spain. So, the answer is to import more unemployed people? Finally, I don't recall any other recent refugee group, e.g. Vietnamese or Chinese, acting as if they are entitled to social services, support systems, special educational facilities, and various other subsidies. This group appears to believe they have a right to cross any borders, settle where they please, and then demand the host country support them and their extended families. This is either a culture gap, or a fantasy concerning the wealth and supporting infrastructure of many small European countries who are struggling with their economies and scarce job opportunities.
20
What a clear and moving and nuanced article. The author and researchers made me understand the family and donor connections, the complications and isolation and heartbreak and striving and hope of the Syrian immigrants - and the thoughtful kind-heartedness of the Canadian hosts. Oh, Canada - I hope we can learn from you.
5
Given the present state of our economy, and the fact that the Middle-Class in America has all but disappeared, it's nice to know that out neighbours to the North are still in the position to be so generous with their hospitality.
But the U.S. is not Canada. And while we may be a generous people, a great many are living just above the Federal poverty line.
No doubt, there are countless Americans with their hearts in the right place, who would like financially support those who are less fortunate -- but often they are unable to do even that.
That doesn't make us a bad people.
But the U.S. is not Canada. And while we may be a generous people, a great many are living just above the Federal poverty line.
No doubt, there are countless Americans with their hearts in the right place, who would like financially support those who are less fortunate -- but often they are unable to do even that.
That doesn't make us a bad people.
29
Are we a generous people? Reading this article made me feel a bit ashamed to be an American. Hearing how supportive and willing to help the Canadians are makes me wonder why so many Americans have such a mean streak.
4
America has allowed more legal immigrants than any other country for years and years, not even counting the hundreds of thousands invited and allowed to stay by politicians ignoring the law of the land.
23
But Sally, you can indeed personally get involved in helping Syrian refugees, or in fact any refugees. There's no reason to wait until the United States government does it for you. In the meantime, those "Americans who have a mean streak" may be helping others in need. Just because someone doesn't choose to support your particular cause doesn't mean they have a "mean streak."
25
None of this will end well.
40
Oh, come on -- some of it could!
3
An important factor that North American generally find hard to grasp is that Syrians' inlaws are frequently blood relatives as well. A 2008 study found that the percentage of married couples who are also first or second cousins varied from 15% in urban Lattakia to 63% in rural Al Raqa. These multiple ties of blood and marriage increase clannishness among Syrians, which makes it harder for them to think of themselves as a nuclear family rather than as a sprawling extended family.
http://consang.net/images/c/cb/Asia.pdf
http://consang.net/images/c/cb/Asia.pdf
21
At some point, the issue of family planning needs to be brought up. This family has a five month old daughter. How is that responsible? Especially given that the war has been going on for over Three years and they were living in a refugee camp when the child was conceived. Meanwhile, Mrs. Hajj has over 16 full and half siblings. SIXTEEN! I don't know if family planning education is offered for families that migrate to Canada or the United States....but it probably should be.
65
That many full and half-siblings is likely indication that her father had more than one wife
9
Oh, please. Do you know of a better way to eventually wreck the planet, other than consuming all it's resources? I mean, besides polluting it to death, or irradiating it?
7
The US, Canada and other western countries should not be compelled to destroy themselves because other nations refuse to embrace family planning.
20
The question raised by this article seems to be: support a refugee family until by your unprofessional reckoning they should be able to support themselves, then drop them and assume that all is well? Ridiculous. The stress of being a refugee, far from what the family will always consider "home" does not go away - it remains for life. Particularly if the refugees are made dependent on strangers for food, gifts, clothing and even job training. Where are social workers to stop this "adoption" program, which is not helpful but abusive? Who is stopping these misguided Canadians from treating foreigners like playthings, to be patronized and then dropped at will? Frankly, the refugees need to refuse the gifts, the food and the intrusive housecalls, and stand on their own two feet - reality needs to set in, and the truth about living in Canada must dawn. Its not a utopia where every need will be catered to - it's a place to find a job and work to support yourself. Impairing them by getting rid of their personal incentive to work is cruel, not helpful - and professional social workers need to stop this abuse. These people are not from stray cats, they are human beings. Frankly, the only humane thing to do is to work on our leadership to end the war in Syria, and get these people home. Crying on the phone from thousands of miles away is not helping anyone settle in to a foreign land - get them home, where they are essential to rebuilding a nation that will never recover without them.
21
This isn't an informal "adoption" program. It's Canada's refugee sponsorship program. In Canada, private individuals and groups can sponsor refugees to come to the country. Instead of the government paying for their rent, food, and clothing, these are provided by the sponsors, who are financially responsible for them for one year (e.g., they can't apply for welfare). In some cases, there is a mixed model, with the government providing some funds and the sponsors providing the rest.
3
I'm not Canadian.
Canadians can decide for Canada.
In the USA, I could accept this idea -- private sponsorship --
but only with the following changes and clarifications:
Private sponsor be legally responsible for five years,
not merely one year,
for all living expenses, including health care and education,
and housing.
Responsibility must cover all children born here,
along with all children brought here.
Full calculated cost of full five-year financial guarantee
to be 100% secured by collateral posted by sponsor,
in advance, in cash, with the U.S. Treasury.
BTW: Same concept ought to be imposed on would-be employers
wanting to import labor.
Canadians can decide for Canada.
In the USA, I could accept this idea -- private sponsorship --
but only with the following changes and clarifications:
Private sponsor be legally responsible for five years,
not merely one year,
for all living expenses, including health care and education,
and housing.
Responsibility must cover all children born here,
along with all children brought here.
Full calculated cost of full five-year financial guarantee
to be 100% secured by collateral posted by sponsor,
in advance, in cash, with the U.S. Treasury.
BTW: Same concept ought to be imposed on would-be employers
wanting to import labor.
1
After violence broke out in her neighborhood, I offered my former host mom from when I was an exchange student in Africa a ticket to stay with me in the US to wait it out, and she accepted. The day after she arrived all she could talk about was her adult children and grandchildren back in Africa, and how they also needed help. I knew they had their own needs, but I had already stretched considerably. They were able-bodied adults or young children who I thought should be with their parents. She was older and semi-retired, and I wanted her to be safe and do what I could. She had no clue about the US and had so much to learn. She was granted amnesty and then coped admirably in this foreign environment, but it took quite a while for her to internalize that money does not come as easily here as the media in Africa suggest. After working here herself, she knew I could only do so much, but naturally her family continued to pressure her. Living in America gave her a new perspective on her African family. They act collectively, and we are far more independent. After a while here, she wanted her own kids to be independent and to stop relying on her so much. But they weren't here, and had no way to know why she suddenly that. She had a changed view. Theirs was unchanged. She returned home after a few years when it was safe. I'd like to say it all ended happily, but it was bittersweet. Some problems are too big for us to solve as individuals and require big efforts and societal changes.
41
The trouble with this oft-repeated notion about America being a nation of immigrants is that nobody wants to have an honest conversation about the fact that "immigrants" and "refugees" are not monolithic groups. The early immigrants to America had more in common than not; they were predominately Europeans from stable/wealthy democracies. Sure, their cultures differed in terms of food, language, religious denomination, etc. but they worshiped the same God. The Jewish refugees who came here were far more educated than the rest of the population at the time and demonstrated a high degree of upward mobility.
The idea that we could maintain historically unprecedented levels of immigration while also bringing in ONLY people from the 3rd world with no experience living in a democracy, with religious/cultural factors making assimilation nearly impossible (never mind that the Left has deemed it a hate crime) is simply not reasonable.
The idea that we could maintain historically unprecedented levels of immigration while also bringing in ONLY people from the 3rd world with no experience living in a democracy, with religious/cultural factors making assimilation nearly impossible (never mind that the Left has deemed it a hate crime) is simply not reasonable.
41
Our forebears were put to work opening up the frontier, logging, building railroads, mining, constructing and laboring in great factory works, fighting the civil war, etc. What is it we have to offer now to anyone with less than a college education? Given the number of Canadians we get in the U.S., what is it they have to offer? Perpetual state dependence? Well-meaning but ultimately cruel.
10
JD, I'm not sure where you learned your history. Most of the immigrants who came here in the 18th-20th centuries were not wealthy or well-educated. Wealth was much more concentrated back then (it was more like the top .1%). Also, 18th century England was not a democracy.
6
Sally, none of those immigrants who came here from the 1600's through the 1920's ever expected that we'd feed and house them. They knew they'd have to work.
Now our progressive politicians actually advertise throughout Latin America to come to America and apply for food stamps (as prescribed in Rules for Radicals.)
Now our progressive politicians actually advertise throughout Latin America to come to America and apply for food stamps (as prescribed in Rules for Radicals.)
21
Let the Clintons, Bushes and Obamas personally take care of these refugees. They have the resources, after all.
25
Birth control is the answer. Help the homeless in our country first. Create jobs for the unemployed in the U.S. Control our borders in the interest of protecting our needed social services for Americans. You can't have both open
borders as well as protect social services without collapsing our economic welfare.
borders as well as protect social services without collapsing our economic welfare.
54
I don't know who to feel more sorry for...these well-meaning Canadians or the Syrian family soon to enter a low wage trap. This is not an especially good time to land in North America illiterate, skilled in sheep herding, yet determined to reproduce. I think we must deal with the Russians and accept that Assad is going nowhere. Or are we prepared to fund another Marshall Plan, establish permanent military bases in Syria, build up a secular culture and stay for a century to make it stick. Anyone up for that?
26
Absolutely the emphasis should be on helping these people integrate in an environment much closer to their own culture, rather than try to undertake the very expensive, difficult, and uncertain process of trying to bring them here. Not only could we help many, many more families, but we are also contributing to a massive brain-drain in this part of the world. (Anybody remember Afghanistan, and what happened?)
I´ve been to refugee camps and I know how difficult life in the camps is, but there are already a number of international programs designed to provide jobs, education, and health care to the refugees in Lebanon and Jordan. Our efforts should be focused on expanding these programs, rather than what we are doing now. I´m tired of the sanctimonious comments comparing Syrians with Irish or Germans -- this is a completely different situation, and we need to open our eyes and make better decisions.
I´ve been to refugee camps and I know how difficult life in the camps is, but there are already a number of international programs designed to provide jobs, education, and health care to the refugees in Lebanon and Jordan. Our efforts should be focused on expanding these programs, rather than what we are doing now. I´m tired of the sanctimonious comments comparing Syrians with Irish or Germans -- this is a completely different situation, and we need to open our eyes and make better decisions.
33
Here lies an issue.How many? In Australia it became apparent after he rule of a reckless socialist Govt that we'd lost control of our borders and taken in 50,000 in the space of a couple of years.Refugee advocates campaigned to 'keep the borders open'.But again,how many? When is our 'compassion' exhausted? 500,000? One million? 10 million? The over-simplified mantra of liberals to simply be open armed and 'compassionate' was quickly tempered here in Australia by the realisation that the systems as such were being gamed.Economic migrants swamped the genuinely needy.Australia became the hot ticket for simply relocating from your less affluent country of origin.Just tell the guy at the refugee triage centre that you were 'being persecuted' in your home country and....voila
41
These folks are desperate and we here in North America either can't understand or don't want to understand.
The brother in Lebanon stands waiting days for the possibility if work. He wants to send his children to school. He owes 400.00 to a grocer, buying a bit of candy he cant afford for his kids and lives in a shack with his family. They have nothing and no prospects for themselves or their children in Lebanon. My heart aches.
How hard is it to understand people...really. This man wants a better life for his children. Isn't this why our European ancestors got on ships and came to North America...I live their dreams and thank them for their sacrifice.
If the US starts a sponsorship program, I will gladly get involved.
I also think it's unrealistic to take in illerate adults, expecting them to be self sufficient in 1 year. I lived in Montreal at age 20 for 2 years and never became proficient in French. 1 year is unrealistic and a set up for failure...my opinion.
Be kind, don't point fingers at what other countries are or are not doing. Just ask yourself what you could do...even if it is just to pray for these people, then pray.
The brother in Lebanon stands waiting days for the possibility if work. He wants to send his children to school. He owes 400.00 to a grocer, buying a bit of candy he cant afford for his kids and lives in a shack with his family. They have nothing and no prospects for themselves or their children in Lebanon. My heart aches.
How hard is it to understand people...really. This man wants a better life for his children. Isn't this why our European ancestors got on ships and came to North America...I live their dreams and thank them for their sacrifice.
If the US starts a sponsorship program, I will gladly get involved.
I also think it's unrealistic to take in illerate adults, expecting them to be self sufficient in 1 year. I lived in Montreal at age 20 for 2 years and never became proficient in French. 1 year is unrealistic and a set up for failure...my opinion.
Be kind, don't point fingers at what other countries are or are not doing. Just ask yourself what you could do...even if it is just to pray for these people, then pray.
10
How many?
8
We are all immigrants who have to make tough decisions to balance bringing in new people and taking care of those already here. If you don't take care of those already here, there will be a strong reaction (lack of awareness of the effect on the many who are losing jobs and status/pride). If you don't bring in immigrants there will be another problems (rarely mentioned since it involves the long term consequences of the aging of the population not to mention stifling of a healthy culture).
Why is this so hard a balance to achieve? Because some people make a lot of money and gain a lot of power by keeping things bad.
Why is this so hard a balance to achieve? Because some people make a lot of money and gain a lot of power by keeping things bad.
3
We aren't all immigrants.
Some were here already.
Others were slaves.
There's a difference.
Some were here already.
Others were slaves.
There's a difference.
9
My family left Ireland in 1850 and 1852; I do not consider myself an immigrant. Immigrants are defined as a bit more recent than our forebears; as are refugees who are even more recent. No doubt there are a few Boston Brahmins who would reject being described as "immigrants".
8
No, we are not all immigrants.
That's pollyannish nonsense.
Yes, our ancestors were "immigrants", and explorers and treasure-seekers and buccaneers.
But ancestors were then.
This is now.
Obsession with ancestors -- and revanchism for wrongs allegedly suffered by ancestors -- is a never ending path soaked in blood and tears.
We can learn from studying what ancestors did -- and did not do -- and whether or not they did it well -- so long as the measure of goodness or badness is the standards of the times then.
Measuring actions hundreds of years in the past by the standards of today is historical chauvinism.
That's pollyannish nonsense.
Yes, our ancestors were "immigrants", and explorers and treasure-seekers and buccaneers.
But ancestors were then.
This is now.
Obsession with ancestors -- and revanchism for wrongs allegedly suffered by ancestors -- is a never ending path soaked in blood and tears.
We can learn from studying what ancestors did -- and did not do -- and whether or not they did it well -- so long as the measure of goodness or badness is the standards of the times then.
Measuring actions hundreds of years in the past by the standards of today is historical chauvinism.
22
If we believe god created human beings we must also agree the fact that even if he could not make all happy how Canada Can?
If few refugees who landed on Canada got better life and became happy that's it.
There are many rich countries on Middle east Like Saudi, UAE, Kuwait etc If they also followed the examples of Canada and took refugees I think the refugee problem will be solved.
If few refugees who landed on Canada got better life and became happy that's it.
There are many rich countries on Middle east Like Saudi, UAE, Kuwait etc If they also followed the examples of Canada and took refugees I think the refugee problem will be solved.
12
As a first generation Canadian and son of refugees escaping the ravages of World War II, I have nothing but admiration for the sponsors and empathy for the Syrian refugees they are helping adapt to their new homeland. However, there is only so much the Canadian citizen can do as witnessed in this story. Where are the elected officials of our welcoming countries? They stood up in the 1940's to do what was necessary to stop that horrific war. And now? "Well let's wait and see". At times it takes the will to do the right thing and the fortitude to deal with the consequences. Is it time now?
The Canadians are welcoming Syrian families with open hearts. And the Saudi Arabians are doing... what?
See the problem?
Why is Canada taking in refugees when Saudi Arabia refuses to do so?
See the problem?
Why is Canada taking in refugees when Saudi Arabia refuses to do so?
58
It would have been much easier and safer had the families immigrated to other Middle Eastern countries as Jordan or Oman. The climate, foods, customs are similar and the refuges would have had less life stress in general. It would have been easier to acclimate.
44
Jordan has taken in many refugees, approximately 25% of people living in all of Jordan are refugees.
6
Agreed as to Jordan, and also Lebanon.
But there are plenty of other Middle Eastern countries that can and ought to step up and take in the refugees.
But there are plenty of other Middle Eastern countries that can and ought to step up and take in the refugees.
13
I am so proud of the Canadians. And, naturally, women are leading the way.
8
Yes, right down the road to hell. Paved with good intentions, of course.
29
I am part of a sponsoring group, waiting for "our family" to arrive. Things have slowed a lot since Canada reached its 25,000 initial quota. We are lucky to have lots of knowledgeable help from local groups like our Inter-cultural association, and from groups that have been sponsoring refugees from all over the world for many years. But the need outstrips the ability to provide by many times and those stranded in Turkey, Jordan, Lebanon and elsewhere are suffering horribly. They have no country to go back to and they will find it hard to settle in Canada. Stop the war!
9
I don't see why Americans who want to adopt--or foster--a orphan child (those who can care for more is great as well) are restricted from doing so. I'm a twenty year Naval veteran and from what I've seen of the world, we are all the same--and as Dr. Neil deGrasse Tyson points out: "All of us our genetically related." So, really the world is our family. I don't have a husband, I don't have any kids, but I certainly could care for at least one child even temporarily. They would enjoy all that Los Angeles and the West Coast has to offer. I'd rather do that than give to some charity (I haven't forgotten the debacle of the Red Cross after 9/11, what a waste) where it never makes it to anyone. The United States should follow Canada's lead. Trump supporters need not apply.
5
There are plenty of older kids right here in the USA who need your help and you do not have to go so far.
My own daughter adopted three older children into our family.
She is a special education teacher, and she sees so many kids in her school who long to have a family; they think of having a family as other kids think of Christmas: dreaming of having a loving mom or dad.
If I were younger, I too would adopt a few more American kids, any color, does not matter.
My own daughter adopted three older children into our family.
She is a special education teacher, and she sees so many kids in her school who long to have a family; they think of having a family as other kids think of Christmas: dreaming of having a loving mom or dad.
If I were younger, I too would adopt a few more American kids, any color, does not matter.
24
Daniel, check out adoptuskids.org and you will see hundreds of American children, mostly teenagers, eagerly awaiting adoption. Go for it!
6
Previous generations of immigrants were able, by hard work, to make a better life for themselves and their families. With so many low skilled jobs being exported away from western countries along with increasing automation, the immediate prospects for unskilled immigrants are becoming less attractive. From what I am reading in this story, these people will be on welfare for a long time. At this point the family is fortunate that they have generous sponsors. What will happen when the sponsors are unable to be as helpful or generous?
53
Such a lovely story, but the enormous task of resettling all of the world's refugees, who I believe number over 63 million, must be undertaken along with preventing the creation of more refugees.
The entrenchment of human rights to foster equal treatment for all, and the development of democratic institutions, seem to be crucial to accomplish this but countries stuck in conflict now tend to lack human rights, women's rights, democratic institutions and remain trapped in their respective ethinic and religious communities with little dialogue.
I hope they can soon see the need to change.
The entrenchment of human rights to foster equal treatment for all, and the development of democratic institutions, seem to be crucial to accomplish this but countries stuck in conflict now tend to lack human rights, women's rights, democratic institutions and remain trapped in their respective ethinic and religious communities with little dialogue.
I hope they can soon see the need to change.
6
Helping one family, at enormous cost, does nothing to solve the refugee crisis. It's not even clear if the family will be better off or happier as a result, especially if another 5 babies come along. Is it easier to do something futile than to admit that there is so little we can do? And please note, the Syrians are not interested in solving the refugee crisis either, only in helping their own closest relatives. Perhaps we should take note and focus on those closer to home.
58
I had a paraprofessional in my class who was Muslim, who wore the hijab. She was extremely wealthy - e.g., she'd bought a house in Egypt purely for investment, a mansion in a gated community - & was doing the para work to just get out of the house.
She was a good para & seemed nice. But when one of the African American students - troubled, special needs - got upset with her & told her she was "stinky", she loudly accused the student of racism, & insisted on sending the child immediately to in school suspension. When I tried to diffuse the situation, & told her this student was just trying to push her buttons, the para just grew more belligerent.
It was disturbing to see a very wealthy adult shouting into an African American child's face - an impoverished special needs student - & accusing the child of racism (without cause). The para went on to report this to her superiors. Their solution was to transfer her to another school, where I'm sure another disturbed student will call her whatever. What then?
It struck me how different her response was from literally any other para I've worked with, of any other race or ethnicity (African American, Latino, Indian). Hers was a fragile sense of self that brooked no challenge & had no interest in complex factors (nor the fact btw that Egypt enslaved black Africans). All she saw was that she was a victim.
You need much more than love & good intentions to incorporate cultures with very different assumptions from ours.
She was a good para & seemed nice. But when one of the African American students - troubled, special needs - got upset with her & told her she was "stinky", she loudly accused the student of racism, & insisted on sending the child immediately to in school suspension. When I tried to diffuse the situation, & told her this student was just trying to push her buttons, the para just grew more belligerent.
It was disturbing to see a very wealthy adult shouting into an African American child's face - an impoverished special needs student - & accusing the child of racism (without cause). The para went on to report this to her superiors. Their solution was to transfer her to another school, where I'm sure another disturbed student will call her whatever. What then?
It struck me how different her response was from literally any other para I've worked with, of any other race or ethnicity (African American, Latino, Indian). Hers was a fragile sense of self that brooked no challenge & had no interest in complex factors (nor the fact btw that Egypt enslaved black Africans). All she saw was that she was a victim.
You need much more than love & good intentions to incorporate cultures with very different assumptions from ours.
44
Good point. You can't generalize about an entire culture that, BTW spans not just various nations but continents, and its attitudes, sense of self, economic status and what not on the basis of a single anecdote about a single individual.
4
A small design criticism for the simulated text messages in blue bubbles. The only people who see messages in blue text bubbles are iPhone users talking through iMessage with other iPhone users. That's a small and privileged percentage of the world. This article specifically stated that these families are using WhatsApp to communicate - why not be more visually accurate in the representation of these messages? I would consider it more accurate journalism.
12
Not mentioned in this article, nor the first article, is how involved local mosques are in the integration process, something other people have questioned in the comments. These people are illiterate in Arabic. Do they offer Arabic courses?
My Midwestern upbringing didn't include many Middle Eastern people, but my father had a VERY dim view of them. He had been a POW for almost 3 years in Germany, at Milag, where there were many Muslim POWs, from British colonies, mostly Egypt and India. Their clerics refused to allow them to partake of care packages. Packages from the US, Canada, and England contained cans of pork products, and tobacco. The POWs argued that all items were packaged, and the pork and tobacco didn't come into physical contact with the jam, biscuits, chocolate, or other products. The religious clerics in India, who seemed to issue the decisions, took years to respond to their request for mercy. The response they received was that Muslims must always bee good Muslims, even in war. He couldn't figure out why a religion would order their members to starve, and deny them food. As the war progressed, the Red Cross packages became a major point of nutrition, not a supplement. And, not one Muslim country or group provided Muslim packages. The POW cemetery contains many Muslim graves.
How many mosques and Middle Eastern Canadians are helping these people?
My Midwestern upbringing didn't include many Middle Eastern people, but my father had a VERY dim view of them. He had been a POW for almost 3 years in Germany, at Milag, where there were many Muslim POWs, from British colonies, mostly Egypt and India. Their clerics refused to allow them to partake of care packages. Packages from the US, Canada, and England contained cans of pork products, and tobacco. The POWs argued that all items were packaged, and the pork and tobacco didn't come into physical contact with the jam, biscuits, chocolate, or other products. The religious clerics in India, who seemed to issue the decisions, took years to respond to their request for mercy. The response they received was that Muslims must always bee good Muslims, even in war. He couldn't figure out why a religion would order their members to starve, and deny them food. As the war progressed, the Red Cross packages became a major point of nutrition, not a supplement. And, not one Muslim country or group provided Muslim packages. The POW cemetery contains many Muslim graves.
How many mosques and Middle Eastern Canadians are helping these people?
39
Lots of mosques and people of Middle Eastern descent are helping, just as are people of many different backgrounds and religious affiliations or lack of religious affiliation). For example, the sponsorship group I belong to has been greatly supported by the Arab Community Centre of Toronto, in many aspects of the settlement process.
8
'The Siege of Krishnapur', a well researched novel by J.G. Farrell with an introduction by Pankai Mishra, may offer an explanation.
4
The Syrian refugees are extremely appreciative and are working hard to integrate and respect their own culture too. The doom and gloom comments by many here clearly do not understand. I think if they could rub shoulders with these people as we do, they would come to realise that these people will be incredible additions to our culture and our economy. I am proud that Canada has welcomed the refugees, and I am shocked at Britain, whose Brexit vote is little more than a method to close their borders. In twenty year's time, when their economy is troubled and their population is aged, Britain will be looking for a scapegoat.
8
A number of comments here, actually, most of them, help explain what has been inexplicable to me - the rise of Donald Trump. The world is a dark and ugly place. We all have to grab our own, strangers are dangerous and imperil our safety and properity. 'They' have a degraded culture and aren't smart enough to learn new things.
Good going NYT's commenters!
Good going NYT's commenters!
9
I encountered a more optimistic Syrian refugee story this summer in the small university town of Antigonish, Nova Scotia--a booth selling luscious chocolates at a local arts fair. I learned that Assam Hadhad had been a successful chocolatier employing 30 people before fleeing Syria with his family. Now they were proudly producing confections again as Peace by Chocolate, housed in a tiny shed. Far from Damascus, speaking hardly any English, they were starting again and seemed already to have a loyal local following. Refugees range from illiterate to PhDs, and many will have easier times than the family in the article. Both kinds of stories are important.
121
I see the Hadhads now have a website: peacebychocolate.ca
It tells more of their story:
"Like much of our homeland, the Hadhad chocolate factory was destroyed in a bombing that forced our family to leave everything behind and flee to Lebanon.
"For three years we found our home in a refugee camp with little opportunity or hope. Our lives had been forever altered and we dreamed of returning to the lives we love. When our family was invited into Canada and became full Canadian citizens our dreams came true. With the support of our new community Antigonish and the people of Nova Scotia we have rebuilt our chocolate company and are once again doing the work we love."
It tells more of their story:
"Like much of our homeland, the Hadhad chocolate factory was destroyed in a bombing that forced our family to leave everything behind and flee to Lebanon.
"For three years we found our home in a refugee camp with little opportunity or hope. Our lives had been forever altered and we dreamed of returning to the lives we love. When our family was invited into Canada and became full Canadian citizens our dreams came true. With the support of our new community Antigonish and the people of Nova Scotia we have rebuilt our chocolate company and are once again doing the work we love."
16
Trump makes a great point when he asks, "Why aren't the Saudi's and other Gulf States helping out?" Seriously- They have tons of cash and could convert vast tracts of unoccupied land in Saudi Arabia to create new cities in the desert. There is a large Korean company doing those exact projects in Africa right now- it can be done.
I may also mention with the $6 trillion dollars we have spent dropping bombs and killing thousands of people in the Middle East- we could have completely rebuilt and restored the entire city of Detroit. There are enough vacant homes and buildings to shelter millions of homeless Americans and Syrian refugees. Why can't we spend tax payer money wisely for a change? Why is it always wasted?
I may also mention with the $6 trillion dollars we have spent dropping bombs and killing thousands of people in the Middle East- we could have completely rebuilt and restored the entire city of Detroit. There are enough vacant homes and buildings to shelter millions of homeless Americans and Syrian refugees. Why can't we spend tax payer money wisely for a change? Why is it always wasted?
48
It's a fools errand to believe that we can help all who need help when the world population is growing exponentially. The fastest and most compassionate solution is to immediately enforce negative population growth. There is simply not enough essential resources to support 7 billion people and counting. In the face of ever scarcer basic resources and dehumanizing automation, we must bring supply into balance with demand. It is only common sense that we neutralize cultural (and racial and religious) differences by eliminating economic disparity. That can only happen if we get control of population growth, starting yesterday.
63
Christ incarnated on earth to teach us that loving one another, and caring for one another, is paramount in this life and key to the next. How sad that you call it a fools errand to believe we cannot use this planet's bounty, which belongs to all humans, to help those in need.
5
What is the greatest concern facing our Planet, asked our geography teacher, at school in France in 1963, addressing a class of over forty young students. OVERPOPULATION, she underlined on the blackboard vigorously. However, she added that great wars, famines, the plague and other ills had managed to keep population growth contained, but that this might well change. She was right and this is what we are facing today, as longevity plays an important factor in developed countries as well.
21
I sincerely hope that no one else but you has so badly misconstrued what I wrote. The point Daffodowndilly is that arguably, population growth has already surpassed "this planet's bounty." The dilemma is not so much with ownership rights but the methodology of equitable distribution of goods and services.
3
Yak, yak,yak and more yak. Every commentor has an argument or a useless solution. Instead of all that yak, yak, let's find out how we can make a contribution to a fund for all those wonderful, Canadian ladies to help them continue with their humanitarian efforts. Would the NY Times find out where readers can send a check to help out? Thanks.
Sean Abu Khalil
Sean Abu Khalil
20
Thank you, Sean Abu Khalil, this does sound helpful and feeling rather feeble, both listening and commenting here.
2
@abu
And you??? -- Do YOU have a solution???
It's easy to write "Yak Yak Yak" from your comfortable home in San Diego.
But what are you actually doing, instead of blaming others???
And you??? -- Do YOU have a solution???
It's easy to write "Yak Yak Yak" from your comfortable home in San Diego.
But what are you actually doing, instead of blaming others???
12
I admire all those who take the opportunities to make a better life for their families. Sadness is an inescapable emotion no matter who the direct players are. We as observers have lots of opinions, but those who are connected and are stuck there deserve our compassion as do those they know who will never leave and those that fought to maintain a life there who are the faceless unknowns obliterated by politics, greed, religion and just plain happenstance. I welcome into my life and community all those who first allegiance is the stability and growth of their families and the belief others deserve the same. This is our finest civilized moment in the current sea of our collective troubles.
33
If money were the only concern, then crowdfunding to bring the families from overseas to North America would be part of the answer. I know it is not simply about money. The people left behind are suffering more than we can know. Over here we are so very lucky.
3
I am glad to see the generosity of these Canadians. It is beautiful. It is understandable that the families are reaching out for help. Who wouldn't? They are living in hell. If Irish immigrants and Chinese immigrants and Russian immigrants etc. of the 19th century (and later) had cell phones, this would have been a similar issue--the tug of the less fortunate back home. I want to believe that the Hajjes will succeed, despite the illiteracy. I am saddened by the negative and cynical attitudes of the comments for this article.
8
This makes me nauseous. You want to help every single person in the world, but we can't. Who do we say no to, who performs the triage. Overpopulation will lead to our demise.
63
Really Folks... At some point we have to care for our own. Why is it OK for us to tell new mothers they need to take care of themselves first otherwise if they don't then the "mother" is no good to anyone if she falls apart.
Yet we are willing to help all these foreigners, illegal immigrants, refugees while your own citizens are dying sooner and faster due to the lack of help from their own country. It makes me sick to hear about all this "do good" and yet see so much poverty, death, tragedy and lost dreams in our country for our citizens whose ancestors fought with their life to live here. It makes no sense to me at all how this country can allocate so much money to care for people not an american citizen yet provide nothing for our own. And some here cannot understand the rise of Trump? Take a drive and look around for all those entitled in this country and willing to give away what little is left to help everyone else but our own.
Yet we are willing to help all these foreigners, illegal immigrants, refugees while your own citizens are dying sooner and faster due to the lack of help from their own country. It makes me sick to hear about all this "do good" and yet see so much poverty, death, tragedy and lost dreams in our country for our citizens whose ancestors fought with their life to live here. It makes no sense to me at all how this country can allocate so much money to care for people not an american citizen yet provide nothing for our own. And some here cannot understand the rise of Trump? Take a drive and look around for all those entitled in this country and willing to give away what little is left to help everyone else but our own.
50
Do you understand what it means to be a refugee??
8
From what I gather a refugee gets much more help than my disabled mother gets in her own country of America. Do you know what it is like to give up having children, family, marriage your whole life because of the lack of help in American and then watch all these people get free rides here? I did everything right by America's norm and yet I have nothing. I would gladly swap to be a refugee in Germany. Their future is much brighter than my future here in the USA according to the statistics of increasing suicide rate of middle aged women. My ancestors came over on the mayflower and sacrificed many generations. People don't understand what sacrifices Americans have to make to survive here. How much we hurt our own families to just put food on the table yet you want us to sacrifice more to keep "their" families together regardless of what is happening here. This is not like Denmark or a Scandinavian Country, this is a dog eat dog country we have to fight to survive. Refugees receive cash cards in the surrounding countries with free cash. I could only dream of something like that in America. Maybe Gates Foundation could offer grants to "families" here in America to stick together and support ALL generations instead of promoting the opposite here.
33
how many refugee families do you support???
3
Beautiful articles on the Syrian refugees and their wonderful Canadian sponsors. The size of the immigrant families with four and five children to feed, clothe and educate make it more difficult or impossible to bring in even more large deserving families. Every additional child spreads the opportunities for a better, fulfilling life a little bit thinner..
Realizing the difficulties of suggesting huge cultural change, nonetheless, why is this not part of the lesson for everyone? Reality and history tell us resources are limited in the world. Too many people in the world today is the biggest impediment to overcoming even immediate problems of resettling deserving human beings. Smaller families hosted by generous Canadians would better serve the hope of their relatives abroad if they produced fewer children.
Realizing the difficulties of suggesting huge cultural change, nonetheless, why is this not part of the lesson for everyone? Reality and history tell us resources are limited in the world. Too many people in the world today is the biggest impediment to overcoming even immediate problems of resettling deserving human beings. Smaller families hosted by generous Canadians would better serve the hope of their relatives abroad if they produced fewer children.
24
On the contrary, having many children is good for this first generation of refugees. The adults, particularly those who have little education, few transferable skills, and speak neither official language will need their kids' support when they are no longer able to work. They won't make enough at their low-paying jobs (and almost all will work) to save adequately for retirement. Their kids will do fine and will support their elderly parents, and have far fewer kids themselves than their parents did. We know this because we've done this before.
1
Cdns have been welcoming refugees since WW2. It has become part of the fabric of our society. It has also been the topic of continual national debate. Most Cdns now acknowledge that the costs and challenges are far outweighed by the benefits.
Canada is the most multi-national country on earth. Here in the land of the free and home of the brave, we've demonstrated that humans can co-habit and succeed with diverse cultures, languages and yes, values - all within a baseline of law and order and civility.
Some call it Canadian "politeness" - whatever it is , it works.
Yes, there are resource limits; refugee settlement can take 2 generations, it does stress our social safety nets. Individuals examined in this story are going above and beyond to help make it work. If we do it right, the children and grandchildren of these immigrants will likely be some of the greatest achievers on earth; and they will call themselves Canadians.
Canada is the most multi-national country on earth. Here in the land of the free and home of the brave, we've demonstrated that humans can co-habit and succeed with diverse cultures, languages and yes, values - all within a baseline of law and order and civility.
Some call it Canadian "politeness" - whatever it is , it works.
Yes, there are resource limits; refugee settlement can take 2 generations, it does stress our social safety nets. Individuals examined in this story are going above and beyond to help make it work. If we do it right, the children and grandchildren of these immigrants will likely be some of the greatest achievers on earth; and they will call themselves Canadians.
4
Canada is definitely NOT "the land of the free and the home of the brave" as in the American national anthem. We are "The True North strong and free", as stated in the Canadian national anthem, and so we shall remain, untainted by American right-wing evangelical rhetoric, rampant racism, ignorance and misogyny.
These poor illiterate women from Syria deserve (as do all women born into patriarchal cultures) to realize that they live in a land where they do not have to produce a child on an annual basis and are able to take control of their own fertility.
The idea that the Canadian government is going to abandon these refugees after only one year is a testimony to the lack of government preparedness and ignorance of their daily situations. How on earth does the government expect an illiterate non-English speaker to support a family of 5 or more, if he is even lucky enough to gain employment at minimum wage levels?
These poor illiterate women from Syria deserve (as do all women born into patriarchal cultures) to realize that they live in a land where they do not have to produce a child on an annual basis and are able to take control of their own fertility.
The idea that the Canadian government is going to abandon these refugees after only one year is a testimony to the lack of government preparedness and ignorance of their daily situations. How on earth does the government expect an illiterate non-English speaker to support a family of 5 or more, if he is even lucky enough to gain employment at minimum wage levels?
9
Oh Canada!
Is this how you stereotype 350 million people immediately South of you? In my small Upstate NY town, I am part of Literacy Volunteers teaching ESL to people from all over the world. I don't know if any are Syrian refugees, but a friend's teacher daughter in the Albany area has Syrian refugees in her school. We are gathering winter clothing to send her.
Save some of your rhetoric for your own government you also criticized.
Is this how you stereotype 350 million people immediately South of you? In my small Upstate NY town, I am part of Literacy Volunteers teaching ESL to people from all over the world. I don't know if any are Syrian refugees, but a friend's teacher daughter in the Albany area has Syrian refugees in her school. We are gathering winter clothing to send her.
Save some of your rhetoric for your own government you also criticized.
13
Dear Torontoborn, I think you are a poser! Land of the free. Home of the brave. Really??
4
To all who say America should take in more, do more, etc., etc.: Over the course of the past 150 years, we have taken in more than the entire world, combined, many, many times over. Welcome to the club, Canada.
32
I have read articles suggesting that it is easier to teach non-literate adults to read and write in their own language first before attempting to teach them English. Perhaps there is a mosque in Toronto that offers these services. Or maybe a volunteer could be found to teach Mrs. Hajj to read and write Arabic at home. It sounds like she needs psychological help as well. There is a great deal of hand-wringing in this article about the family's future ability to make a living. But most immigrants are resourceful. If Mr. Hajj learns to speak a modicum of English, he can find work in the underground economy, enough to get by while the family also collects government benefits. The children will do much better in the future but the mother's psychological problems are affecting the little girl if the photographs are any indication. Zahiya looks so sad.
10
I'm not sure the kids are in such great shape either, although I agree they have better odds than the parents (esp. the mom). The comments about none of the kids being able to read a word of English and the child going into 6th grade who could not do 1st grade exercises are not reassuring. My understanding of the rules of thumb for elementary education is that kids who are not reading at grade level by about 4th grade tend to fall further and further behind because they simply can't keep up with their lessons if they can't read adequately.
25
American churches should be helping with this situation, given their tax-exempt status.
But why bother to apply Christ's teachings when you can just sneer and scorn and scare yourself silly into believing that the "other" is right around the corner waiting to steal everything from you?
But why bother to apply Christ's teachings when you can just sneer and scorn and scare yourself silly into believing that the "other" is right around the corner waiting to steal everything from you?
4
They are helping, get educted.
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865665122/Excitement-over-budding-Mor...
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865665122/Excitement-over-budding-Mor...
6
Conservative Mennonite churches have done this for years. The Hmong community in Lancaster, PA had its start through local churches. The church would sponsor a family. When it was learned that the women had exceptional needlework skills, they became part of the local quilting community. But, the entire church sponsored the family, including providing an employment opportunity immediately.
I cannot speak of other churches, but I know most other churches struggle to pay their own pastors, and the upkeep of the church. If a church has a cemetery, its condition tells you a good deal about the church.
I cannot speak of other churches, but I know most other churches struggle to pay their own pastors, and the upkeep of the church. If a church has a cemetery, its condition tells you a good deal about the church.
7
(Not Mark) Our temple has been helping overseas for years, look at the Sudan. Maybe you should try Google next time since you obviously have no knowledge of the subject.
2
The needs are unending and unfortunately, the refugees should be concerned about becoming a burden.
26
One solution: take away her phone until she grieves her loss and deals with her PTSD. Her first responsibility is to her family in Canada and to helping her children adjust. Perhaps other refugee women can start a support group. Once her own family is stabilized, she can focus on helping her extended family. The blood dimmed tide of pain threatens to engulf the entire world.
23
Depressing article about a Muslim family that will never be financially independent due to their illiteracy, lack of employable skills and religious edicts that does not women to be free to pursue their own dreams or an education. (And why is the Muslim wife ripping her English books?!). They also seem ungrateful to the families that are helping them out in Canada, and only seem to be demanding more of their time and money, with no foreseeable end to their dependence on their kind and naive hosts.
By the way, both sets of my grandparents were poor immigrants from Turkey (ethnic Greeks), Croatia and Poland who immigrated to the U.S. in the 1920s. The U.S. govt did not give them any type of aid, including English lessons, free housing, or food, they had to make their own way. They were also Christian so my grandmothers were encouraged to work, and all four of them were all blue collar workers. My parents went to college and my two brother's and I have at least a Master's degree. I very much doubt the many Middle Easter families that have flooded into Europe, Canada and the United States will ever be independent and instead continue to sponge of their respective countries and fail to assimilate (like the Muslim Algerians in France). Thankfully I'll be be dead in 20 to 30 years so I won't have to see the long term ramifications of taking in people who don't believe in secularism or women's equality.
By the way, both sets of my grandparents were poor immigrants from Turkey (ethnic Greeks), Croatia and Poland who immigrated to the U.S. in the 1920s. The U.S. govt did not give them any type of aid, including English lessons, free housing, or food, they had to make their own way. They were also Christian so my grandmothers were encouraged to work, and all four of them were all blue collar workers. My parents went to college and my two brother's and I have at least a Master's degree. I very much doubt the many Middle Easter families that have flooded into Europe, Canada and the United States will ever be independent and instead continue to sponge of their respective countries and fail to assimilate (like the Muslim Algerians in France). Thankfully I'll be be dead in 20 to 30 years so I won't have to see the long term ramifications of taking in people who don't believe in secularism or women's equality.
73
Americans need to know that all these incoming refugees go through a gruelling two-year vetting process - "extreme vetting" as if Trump invented it. This is conducted by the UN and it is thorough. Your main concern is internal terrorism conducted by the native born, not these refugees.
3
I agree with the commentator who said that it might be better to have people be sponsored by an organization or church, rather than individuals. It's not only less burdensome on any one person, but the refugees may feel more autonomous and free if not under the observing eye of individual "mothers," kind as they may be.
Another thought is that refugees should be resettled in locations where other immigrants from their home country live so they can commiserate and bond in their own language. And, as much as possible, more ensconced immigrants should be the ones helping recent immigrants, not people from the host country.
My heart goes out to this lonely mother. Her sense of despair in the midst of all this "support" must be horrible, and worse, she cannot really show it as she is supposed to be grateful.
I wish all of these people only the best.
Finally,
Another thought is that refugees should be resettled in locations where other immigrants from their home country live so they can commiserate and bond in their own language. And, as much as possible, more ensconced immigrants should be the ones helping recent immigrants, not people from the host country.
My heart goes out to this lonely mother. Her sense of despair in the midst of all this "support" must be horrible, and worse, she cannot really show it as she is supposed to be grateful.
I wish all of these people only the best.
Finally,
5
As a Canadian citizen, I'm proud of what the sponsors and our governments are doing for Syrian refugees.
As a taxpayer, I wonder how people who are minimally educated or even illiterate will find jobs to support themselves and their families.
In addition to other forms of support (e.g., welfare), there is Canada's new Child Tax Benefit, where families get $6,400 for each child under 6 and $5,400 for each child between 6 and 17, so this could really add up in some cases.
We need to do our share of taking in refugees - but looking at costs and trying to help the most people possible, we should be focusing more on supporting people in countries next door to Syria. All of these countries (except Israel) are Sunni Muslim, so Sunnis have no religious barriers in those countries. The real priority for settlement elsewhere should be the non-Sunni minorities, such as the Ismailis and the Christians, who are in danger from various Sunni groups, notably ISIS.
To date, Canada has had an excellent consensus on immigration generally, taking in a total of about 250,000 annually, with selectivity on the basis of a points system (e.g. for language, skills, and education). There are proposals to push this up over 300,000, even as high as 450,000 (equivalent to 4 million in the USA). This would break the consensus. We also have to be careful that the refugee component is handled carefully, based on the facts (which need research).
As a taxpayer, I wonder how people who are minimally educated or even illiterate will find jobs to support themselves and their families.
In addition to other forms of support (e.g., welfare), there is Canada's new Child Tax Benefit, where families get $6,400 for each child under 6 and $5,400 for each child between 6 and 17, so this could really add up in some cases.
We need to do our share of taking in refugees - but looking at costs and trying to help the most people possible, we should be focusing more on supporting people in countries next door to Syria. All of these countries (except Israel) are Sunni Muslim, so Sunnis have no religious barriers in those countries. The real priority for settlement elsewhere should be the non-Sunni minorities, such as the Ismailis and the Christians, who are in danger from various Sunni groups, notably ISIS.
To date, Canada has had an excellent consensus on immigration generally, taking in a total of about 250,000 annually, with selectivity on the basis of a points system (e.g. for language, skills, and education). There are proposals to push this up over 300,000, even as high as 450,000 (equivalent to 4 million in the USA). This would break the consensus. We also have to be careful that the refugee component is handled carefully, based on the facts (which need research).
13
As a Canadian and a child of immigrants I am also proud of the Canadian record so far.
However, there is an area that needs improvement: preparation for employment of the refugee candidate.
The sponsoring groups have to have specific employment plans in their proposals. Perhaps they would have to survey employers in their area and receive letters of intent from at least 3 employers stating that the employer will hire the refugee.
I say this because I recall how challenging it was for my immigrant parents to obtain enough employment to support our family. They did it, but it sometimes required working 2 jobs. And the jobs were in fields where language proficiency and literacy were not really important. A lot of manual work, for example.
In the story, the family is veering toward tough times. The father and mother will soon have to earn a living; enough to support 4 children. And probably live in Toronto, an expensive city.
Leaving the question of employment to the future is not sensible. Preparations should be made prior to the refugee arriving, especially since the UN can give the Canadian government information about the arriving family.
There are many Canadian employers looking for employees. In fact, they hire foreigners specifically through a temporary foreign worker program.
These employers should have to sign up for refugee employees before they can apply for temporary workers through other programs.
However, there is an area that needs improvement: preparation for employment of the refugee candidate.
The sponsoring groups have to have specific employment plans in their proposals. Perhaps they would have to survey employers in their area and receive letters of intent from at least 3 employers stating that the employer will hire the refugee.
I say this because I recall how challenging it was for my immigrant parents to obtain enough employment to support our family. They did it, but it sometimes required working 2 jobs. And the jobs were in fields where language proficiency and literacy were not really important. A lot of manual work, for example.
In the story, the family is veering toward tough times. The father and mother will soon have to earn a living; enough to support 4 children. And probably live in Toronto, an expensive city.
Leaving the question of employment to the future is not sensible. Preparations should be made prior to the refugee arriving, especially since the UN can give the Canadian government information about the arriving family.
There are many Canadian employers looking for employees. In fact, they hire foreigners specifically through a temporary foreign worker program.
These employers should have to sign up for refugee employees before they can apply for temporary workers through other programs.
5
Good points! As for possible employment, Mouhamad, as profiled in the article, does have skills as a farmer and a shepherd. Sheep producers in Ontario and Alberta are looking for people to work for them, and farmers are happiest when they are out on the land, so it would make sense to build an employment plan on that basis. Also, literacy develops best when linked to something practical such as the knowledge and skills required in farming, so that's a nice combination as well.
In general, it's also important to settle newcomers in smaller communities, as Toronto is developing too rapidly – the population of the GTA is now 6 million. Housing prices in Toronto are ridiculous. Whatever income they have can be stretched much further elsewhere.
In general, it's also important to settle newcomers in smaller communities, as Toronto is developing too rapidly – the population of the GTA is now 6 million. Housing prices in Toronto are ridiculous. Whatever income they have can be stretched much further elsewhere.
7
I'll just add that Mouhamad also said that he wanted to develop skills as a mechanic – something that would fit in very well with farming. Of course, all this requires literacy, so that should be the immediate priority.
3
This 40ish Syrian couple never learned to read at all. They never developed the neural circuitry for reading any language. It is very unlikely they will be able to learn to read English or French at this late date. It would be a herculean task and would require an exceptional amount of focus, time, and willingness to endure extreme frustration. This on top of the challenges of taking care of a young family and adapting to new surroundings.....
I used to work in an ESL program for Somali immigrants and watched as grown Somali women who were also illiterate in their native tongue struggled to sort numerals from upper and lower case letters in a mixed pile. One woman in the class was successful but she didn't have kids. The other five or six women consistently failed with these basic tasks and learned an extremely limited spoken vocabulary.
For the group that struggled, attendance became increasingly sporadic and eventually most of them stopped coming. I don't really blame them--learning to read is a difficult skill for people of all ages but it's much easier when you're young and have the advantage of natural neural plasticity.
I used to work in an ESL program for Somali immigrants and watched as grown Somali women who were also illiterate in their native tongue struggled to sort numerals from upper and lower case letters in a mixed pile. One woman in the class was successful but she didn't have kids. The other five or six women consistently failed with these basic tasks and learned an extremely limited spoken vocabulary.
For the group that struggled, attendance became increasingly sporadic and eventually most of them stopped coming. I don't really blame them--learning to read is a difficult skill for people of all ages but it's much easier when you're young and have the advantage of natural neural plasticity.
45
It is crushingly dissappointing to read the comments of so many Americans, opposing the idea of bringing in some refugees in favour of helping them in their homelands, as if rich, compassionate nations cannot do both. I have never been prouder of Canada as when so many good people stepped forward to help some of these families, whom the vast majority of Canadians have welcomed with open arms, including our Prime Minister. Like the Muslims that came befor ethem they have contributed to our cultural mosaic. My message to Americans? You want to make America great again? Follow our lead on the refugee issue. Unless you are descended from indigenous Americans you are all immigrants. Imagine if your ancestors had been rejected for the same reasons you are giving on this thread.
6
Yesterday I was walking the dog near our national historic site, Fort York. There were school buses parked, and I heard voices and lots of laughter coming towards me. It was a group of school-age children and all - mainly girls - were obviously, with their heads covered, were muslims.. I don't know if they were newcomers but as it seemed it exclusively muslim, I guessed so. Like any children, there was laughter. It was good to see and hear. I don't know how much they learned about Canadian history, but I do know they were on a day when the leaves were falling and walking was crisp, one step closer to discovering what a fabulous and beautiful country Canada is.
3
Even poor illiterate people are not a monolithic group.
When I worked with very poor, often illiterate women and girls in a very conservative city in a poor Muslim country, it wasn't hard to see which ones were likely to succeed, even against daunting odds, and which ones were not.
Illiterate doesn't necessarily mean stupid. Literate doesn't always mean smart. The essential qualities are common sense and an ability to imagine and strive towards a future, even if the present is dreadful.
Birth control is available in the Muslim world. Birth control pills are marketed as menstrual regulation pills so as to circumvent religious proscriptions against them. Everyone there knows this.
It's amazing to me, that in all these heartfelt cries to take in the suffering, from Americans and Canadians, there is little concern for the already suffering marginalized communities always remaining on the bottom as newcomers leap over them. How about making First Nations and inner city communities healthy so our own citizens can achieve their supposed birthrights first?
When I worked with very poor, often illiterate women and girls in a very conservative city in a poor Muslim country, it wasn't hard to see which ones were likely to succeed, even against daunting odds, and which ones were not.
Illiterate doesn't necessarily mean stupid. Literate doesn't always mean smart. The essential qualities are common sense and an ability to imagine and strive towards a future, even if the present is dreadful.
Birth control is available in the Muslim world. Birth control pills are marketed as menstrual regulation pills so as to circumvent religious proscriptions against them. Everyone there knows this.
It's amazing to me, that in all these heartfelt cries to take in the suffering, from Americans and Canadians, there is little concern for the already suffering marginalized communities always remaining on the bottom as newcomers leap over them. How about making First Nations and inner city communities healthy so our own citizens can achieve their supposed birthrights first?
35
My ancestors were poor Irish folk. They were treated very badly in Boston, especially while job seeking...."No Irish Need Apply" was a common sign.
After a couple of generations, they were running the City of Boston.
Turning these refugees into Canadians may take a new generation, but I am sure they will become fine citizens.
After a couple of generations, they were running the City of Boston.
Turning these refugees into Canadians may take a new generation, but I am sure they will become fine citizens.
2
Sure these people need help, but so do a lot of AMERICANS. An estimated 500,000 homeless here, and yet we roll out the red carpet for Syrians?
39
13 Muslims sit on the government benches and one, a woman, is a cabinet member a minister of the crown where she serves with 4 Sikhs and some e war turbans like the minister of national defence. But then it is not unusual to see the same mix in provincial and civic legislatures and all walks of life. Calgary a most conservative town elected then re-elect a Muslim as mayor. PM Trudeau was mocked/questioned by the Conservatives over the fact 50% of cabinet are women and his reason was simple "because it's 2015". For some reason assimilation has been easier in the great white north and it may lay in the fact that after 850 yrs. at war French and English speaking peoples lay down beside each other to create Canada. And that took a lot of compromise and acceptance for it wasn't easy, but it has worked.
4
I neglected to mention the most Canadian tradition of all, "Hockey Night in Canada" is broadcast in English, French and now Punjabi. his goes to my point on assimilation.
4
OK, let's be honest about refugees, no matter where they come from.
I used to work for a refugee resettlement agency in NY during the heyday of Soviet Jewish immigration to this country. They were the favored group, getting expedited visas, and waivers even if some had serious illness, etc. The Soviet authorities made them take their aged parents with them. Once they got here, those families insisted they couldn't live with grandma and grandpa, who were shunted into their own apts., and who were often frail, ill, and never to acquire English.
Former Soviet refugees settled in NYC are now the largest single bloc on welfare. And none of them were illiterate.
What do you think the success rate of illiterate pastoral Muslim refugees is likely to be?
I used to work for a refugee resettlement agency in NY during the heyday of Soviet Jewish immigration to this country. They were the favored group, getting expedited visas, and waivers even if some had serious illness, etc. The Soviet authorities made them take their aged parents with them. Once they got here, those families insisted they couldn't live with grandma and grandpa, who were shunted into their own apts., and who were often frail, ill, and never to acquire English.
Former Soviet refugees settled in NYC are now the largest single bloc on welfare. And none of them were illiterate.
What do you think the success rate of illiterate pastoral Muslim refugees is likely to be?
60
(Not Mark) The soviets wanted to get rid of their Jewish citizens and made them take the older folks with them. However, once able to get a separate apartment, what person would want to live with their children? These people were highly literate and very hard working. Much different from the populations we are talking about today.
4
Thanks for tackling this issue. It's still a treat for Canadians to read about ourselves in the New York Times!
Immigration has always been a polarizing topic. As a child of immigrants in Canada, I can attest to the challenges. My parents are not from the middle east, but like the father in the story, my father was essentially illiterate, even in his own language. He worked every kind of manual job in the early years to afford a modest home for us. He plucked chicken feathers, he worked for the sewer department, he paved roads, he worked in a laundry. Several times in his life, he had two jobs. There were no days off for months at a time. Was he always content and resigned to his fate? No, not every day; he was sometimes frustrated with the sacrifices he was required to make. My mother worked part time as well. She had a harder time with language because she was home with the children. Adjustment was difficult for her because she had no relations in our new town. Adjusting to a new country was not painless. It was hard work every day for both my parents.
Is this any different from the millions of other immigrants who have come onto the shores of Canada or America over the past two hundred years?
The fuel that kept these people going was that the future was for their children. Generations of children that are now the established citizens of their countries.
Immigration has always been a polarizing topic. As a child of immigrants in Canada, I can attest to the challenges. My parents are not from the middle east, but like the father in the story, my father was essentially illiterate, even in his own language. He worked every kind of manual job in the early years to afford a modest home for us. He plucked chicken feathers, he worked for the sewer department, he paved roads, he worked in a laundry. Several times in his life, he had two jobs. There were no days off for months at a time. Was he always content and resigned to his fate? No, not every day; he was sometimes frustrated with the sacrifices he was required to make. My mother worked part time as well. She had a harder time with language because she was home with the children. Adjustment was difficult for her because she had no relations in our new town. Adjusting to a new country was not painless. It was hard work every day for both my parents.
Is this any different from the millions of other immigrants who have come onto the shores of Canada or America over the past two hundred years?
The fuel that kept these people going was that the future was for their children. Generations of children that are now the established citizens of their countries.
6
As with other immigrant families, of all nationalities, in the US and Canada and elsewhere, it is all about the kids. They will learn the language, take on the new life and culture, get an education and thrive. Their parents will manage as they can, never becoming fluent in the new language and earning a living through low-wage jobs or perhaps by starting businesses that serve their fellow immigrant groups. It is too much to expect illiterate adults to learn to read and write English before they have learned to read and write their own language. Soon the children will be translating for their parents.
14
You are right. Many years ago, growing up in the Central Valley of CA, I went to school with kids whose parents were farmers who came from Mexico, Portugal, Italy, Greece, Sicily et al. Their parents did not speak English, or barely, and the kids were their translators and guides. The oldest helped the younger ones; they all completed grammar school, and many went on to college. My best friends had parents from Portugal and Mexico; both went on to college. My Mexican friend married an engineer who was part of the research group who developed Intel. She has sent her children, nieces and nephews to college; she has taken them on trips around the world. There is a family bond and support system in many immigrant families, far beyond what we grow up with. I expect the Syrian immigrants will eventually do the same. That said, we cannot accept all the Syrians who want to come here; they have a safe place in Turkey, and we are paying for it. If our schools and health care services are overwhelmed, no one will be helped. The question is why don't we create a safe zone in Syria? We helped create the mess there. Northern and Western Europeans are closing their doors. It is very likely the U.S. will do the same. We are no longer an unsettled continent with jobs and opportunities for all.
3
My admiration for these Canadians is enormous; they are better people than I could be. But I do fear their problems are only beginning. Do you really want your daughters growing up around women who must be covered from head to toe, obey their husbands, and have no right to control their reproduction? The clash of values is immense, no matter how laudable the intentions—as the French and Germans have been finding out for some time now.
In addition, the psychological pressure to help additional family members will be persistent. If there's one thing you can be sure of with any refugee family, it's that there are always more of them back home.
In addition, the psychological pressure to help additional family members will be persistent. If there's one thing you can be sure of with any refugee family, it's that there are always more of them back home.
42
What you fail to understand is that the daughters and sons of these immigrants take on western values, and customs. From celebrating Thanksgiving to exchanging gifts at Christmas, not because of religion, but because of all the other kids are doing it. I've seen Canadian kids with Muslim friends be curious about the Muslim celebration Eid, and the fast of Ramadan that precedes it. It is the innocence of children that unite people, not the ignorance of their elders.
3
sam ohio: It's at that point that their parents send them to the old country to be married, or bring in a cousin to marry them here, and if they should by any chance choose a life partner for themselves from outside the family or community, they will be ostracized.
25
Not in any significant numbers. Most of these children grow up to be Canadians, who just happen to practise a different religion than I do, or Hindus or Jews, you name the religion. In any country you will get people who want to hang on to the old ways that are long gone, you guys are fighting a bitter election over making America great again, of holding on to a Rockwellian version of America, it's no different.
The NYT might do well to examine the workings of the Idaho (USA) refugee settlement program, which has taken in more Syrian refugees than New York State or California. This program, in a very conservative and libertarian state, uses state, county, and city governmental as well as private structures to work with refugees over a period of years to ensure their integration into their respective communities. Idaho, like Canada, needs more people. Also, Idaho, with a incredibly low unemployment rate, needs workers. This labor shortage may be in part be driving Idaho's resettlement program--but I admire and appreciate the grit and spirit of dedicated US citizens of Idaho for their humane and successful efforts.
11
I think you are over simplifying here Bill. There is no Oz like place in America where jobs are waiting to be filled. In the case of Idaho, the rural proximity is not conducive to mass employment and the types of jobs available are low end, low skilled and most likely already taken by undocumented immigrants.
25
Actually, Aaron, your assessments parallels my earlier stereotypes of Idaho. On my first visit to Idaho over the summer, I discovered that the largest part of Idaho's economy, by far, is information technology, centered mostly in Boise, but spreading to all of the state. Boise is growing in population but the growth seems organized and not disjointed. Boise State University has smartly integrated itself throughout the Boise area--no town/gown problem here--and is assisting with the economic turnaround in both technology and services. I agree that rural Idaho, like other American rural areas, poses a real challenge for our country. However the vibrant small towns I visited in Idaho welcomed me, an outsider liberal, as a tourist and enthusiastically shared their beautiful scenery. Wi-fi/cellphone connections as well as highways and state roads were excellent throughout the state--I can't say the same about California. Idaho shares a 40 mile border with Canada, which seems to have a successful program with its refugees--maybe it is something to do with shared northern geography. I do not know the situation with undocumented residents in Idaho, but I sense that they would be targeted for gaining documentation rather than deportation--unless they were criminals. Take a trip, Aaron, and see for yourself a spectacularly beautiful state that is constructively, albeit quietly, transforming itself to meet today's economic challenges.
1
Who is it that pays for the phones which this woman and her friends 1/2 way across the world use for hours every night?? If indeed extended family is important above all, then they should stay together until they can all afford to move, not just waste their money paying for endless cell phone usage.
25
As I understand the story, the mother uses and internet application that allows for brief voice messages. The app works over the internet. As you surely know, functions like email work over the internet as well. You are generally not charged by your internet or wireless provider every time you send an email or similar internet messaging.
It would seem that the family has access to the internet or a wireless provider. Perhaps their hosts pay for this or the refugees pay for it from the allowance they initially received from the Canadian government.
Or perhaps they use free internet wifi hot spots, if they are lucky enough to live in high density neighbourhoods that have this service.
Certainly they are lucky to have access to the web, but it is not a case of them racking up "long distance" fees as you suggest.
It would seem that the family has access to the internet or a wireless provider. Perhaps their hosts pay for this or the refugees pay for it from the allowance they initially received from the Canadian government.
Or perhaps they use free internet wifi hot spots, if they are lucky enough to live in high density neighbourhoods that have this service.
Certainly they are lucky to have access to the web, but it is not a case of them racking up "long distance" fees as you suggest.
9
There is already an ongoing discussion in Europe what the definition of refugee is and who can be entitled to stay as refugee in the EU. Is it enough to try to escape from poverty to be a refugee? Or are famine or barrel bombs (in Syria) necessary to be accepted as a refugee by authorities and welcoming society? And what if a refugee is choosing to settle in a rich country and not one in the first safe country when he/she is passing on a long travel to either northern Europe or America? And will be an integration into our societies possible? Some may say "sure, other immigrants became citizens. Why not now?" Others may reply "we have already problems with integration. Especially with certain groups of migrants."
We have to look into things, think it through and help then.
We have to look into things, think it through and help then.
13
No, we really don't have to help them. Let their Muslim brothers do something to help them.
46
Their Muslim "brothers", e.g. Saudi Arabia and Kuwait are giving money to build mosques in Europe; they are not taking in refugees. Saudi Arabia is Sunni Muslim; these people appear to be the same. However, the Western countries in Europe and the U.S. are expected to take in the refugees, many of whom are economic migrants. At least Saudi Arabia and Kuwait can give financial support; we don't really need more mosques.
34
The United States treats refugees very differently from other immigrants. If this happens here it will be very costly for the American taxpayer. Here's why: Unlike other immigrants those with the status of "Refugee" are entitled under federal law to a bevy of financial and social service benefits. Those benefits include but are not limited to food stamps, certain kinds of housing assistance,energy assistance,Medicaid,Welfare payments, SSI, WIC,etc....It has usually been the policy of our government to encourage Refugees to settle in States that have the most generous public benefits and the fewest limits on how long those benefits can be received. For example the State of Maine had no limits on how long a family could receive public aid and so the Clinton Administration settled a large number of Somali Refugees there. Governor LePage ended that policy and many of those refugees moved to other areas. In general new arrivals are now discouraged by our government from settling in Maine. It is ironic that while the government was kicking people that were born here off welfare (Welfare Reform) it was also inviting in refugees and sending them to states where they could collect welfare for life. The narrative of families volunteering to help sounds nice but the reality is these people will for the most part go on the dole and be a burden for the American taxpayer for many decades to come.
39
In some states refugees get college scholarships as well. Reduces the amount American kids can get.
24
"these people will for the most part go on the dole and be a burden for the American taxpayer for many decades to come."
Not true. My family were refugees who fled from Vietnam in the 1970s. I have friends in similar circumstances although they not only came from Asia but also Russia, El Salvador, Colombia, Lebanon, Iran, etc. You know how long my family received governmental support? 5 years. With it, my mom received a community college education, my dad got an engineering position and they were able to buy a house within 8 years of moving here. As for my brother and I, we started working at age 10 and went onto successful professional careers. Similar with my friends -- most not only have a college degree, they have graduate/ professional degrees and started supporting their family in their teens and early 20s. Most of us make 6 figures a year in income. I would not be at all surprised if the young kids in this article succeeded similarly. If you look at businesses in the US, a significant percent were started or run by refugees.
https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/276559
http://money.cnn.com/2015/09/10/news/migrant-crisis-refugees-business/
If anything, refugees are a good investment for the US. My citations are recent but you could go back throughout US history and find the same thing. Refugees often risk everything to come to the US and have extensive experience adapting to all sorts of situations. Failure is not an option.
Not true. My family were refugees who fled from Vietnam in the 1970s. I have friends in similar circumstances although they not only came from Asia but also Russia, El Salvador, Colombia, Lebanon, Iran, etc. You know how long my family received governmental support? 5 years. With it, my mom received a community college education, my dad got an engineering position and they were able to buy a house within 8 years of moving here. As for my brother and I, we started working at age 10 and went onto successful professional careers. Similar with my friends -- most not only have a college degree, they have graduate/ professional degrees and started supporting their family in their teens and early 20s. Most of us make 6 figures a year in income. I would not be at all surprised if the young kids in this article succeeded similarly. If you look at businesses in the US, a significant percent were started or run by refugees.
https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/276559
http://money.cnn.com/2015/09/10/news/migrant-crisis-refugees-business/
If anything, refugees are a good investment for the US. My citations are recent but you could go back throughout US history and find the same thing. Refugees often risk everything to come to the US and have extensive experience adapting to all sorts of situations. Failure is not an option.
2
I can't help thinking this article makes a heroic effort to present the immigrants in a positive light, so much so that the reality of the situation is obscured. So, the mother stays up all night listening to her friends and relatives in her native language, yawning through her English lessons. Worse, she wakes up her school age kids in the middle of the night to help her make calls- sabotaging their next day at school. I don't see how this will end well.
107
wow. They have not been a year away from home yet, things are bad back home, how can the woman so insensitive to cut contact with her loved ones back home? She yawns in English class perhaps because she has not slept well and because, like many adults, especially illiterate adults, it may be excruciatingly difficult to learn another language--and not even the smart ones will do so in one year!! Perhaps the expectations are unrealistic and frankly absurd. The hope here is on the children. They may be able to catch up. The parents will g one speaking their language and missing home. It is the usual immigrant story, not just this one. It will end well--but not in a year!
2
If anything this article shows the extent of the problems facing the Syrians, and other refugees, and all those who choose to help them.
While the need for assistance is huge, so are the size of their families, which tend to be extended -- which in the end ultimately means, to accept one is to accept all.
Given the limitations of logistics, this is not always possible, even as much as one would wish it.
My relatives in Germany have been struggling with this very conundrum for months now, where the once welcoming culture has become anything but.
At the same time, t's not easy to watch the daily bombardments of Aleppo, knowing that humanitarian aid is being restricted to only a few days of a cease-fire.
The Syrians, and yes, all of us deserve a better world.
But first, this we must put an end to this war.
While the need for assistance is huge, so are the size of their families, which tend to be extended -- which in the end ultimately means, to accept one is to accept all.
Given the limitations of logistics, this is not always possible, even as much as one would wish it.
My relatives in Germany have been struggling with this very conundrum for months now, where the once welcoming culture has become anything but.
At the same time, t's not easy to watch the daily bombardments of Aleppo, knowing that humanitarian aid is being restricted to only a few days of a cease-fire.
The Syrians, and yes, all of us deserve a better world.
But first, this we must put an end to this war.
20
A beautiful article. Can anybody tell us if we can do that in America. Is there a organization here that does it in U.S.
4
These canadian people have done more than is required. I have often wondered why other countries closer to Syria have done nothing so far. This might be an answer.
9
Jordan has been overwhelmed with refugees; Saudi Arabia and Kuwait refuse to take any refugees; Iran is closed; Turkey receives money to support refugees and funnels them on towards Northern and Western Europe; Greece takes EU money to "save" boatloads of refugees from drowning, but is too poor to offer them jobs. The can gets kicked down the road. Britain has closed the Channel crossings; Austria is closed; Denmark is closed; Norway is closing; Sweden is dealing with the politics of accepting any more refugees; Germany will close due to political problems with refugees. Due to droughts, famines, wars etc. the world will see mass migrations out of the Middle East and West Africa. Can Europe and the U.S. take care of masses of migrants? That question has to asked, honestly.
11
Taking families thousands of miles away from where they live is not a good idea. We need to spend more time resolving the fundamental reasons these people are homeless, and a lot less time on feel-good but dead-end stuff like "saving" particular individuals.
The very best thing we could do for these people is adopt a severe carbon tax. This would price oil and natural gas at their ACTUAL COST in blood and pollution, cut the legs out from Iran, Saudi Arabia, and Russia, and allow renewable technologies to compete in an actual fair market, where fossil fuels aren't subsidized because the cost of using them is hidden.
We could use the taxed dollars to help Jordan and other "neutral" countries to house the displaced people until the war is resolved. Make sure the children are educated, etc.
The very best thing we could do for these people is adopt a severe carbon tax. This would price oil and natural gas at their ACTUAL COST in blood and pollution, cut the legs out from Iran, Saudi Arabia, and Russia, and allow renewable technologies to compete in an actual fair market, where fossil fuels aren't subsidized because the cost of using them is hidden.
We could use the taxed dollars to help Jordan and other "neutral" countries to house the displaced people until the war is resolved. Make sure the children are educated, etc.
42
When I read the comments from Americans and the ones from Canadians here, I must say with all the love and true respect for my American neighbours, that I am so happy and proud to be Canadian!
12
Pride goeth before a fall
21
Luke 10:25-37
No matter what religion you are. Behave and treat others as children of god
No matter what religion you are. Behave and treat others as children of god
4
Here are some eye-opening numbers (source Statistics Canada)
that you might ponder in your pride:
Migration between the United States and Canada:
2001 2006
From Canada to USA:
Born in Canada: 44,300 34,200
Born in USA (returning to USA): 24,200 20,500
Born in third country (onward migration): 24,100 18,300
TOTAL: 92,500 73,000
From USA to Canada:
Born in USA: 19,700 19,300
Born in Canada (returning to Canada): 9,900 11,100
Born in third country (onward migration): 11,900 12,500
TOTAL: 41,600 42,900
http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/11-008-x/2010002/t/11287/tbl001-eng.htm
In short, an outflow from supposedly generous Canada
to the supposedly miserly USA,
in every category, including those born in third countries.
On a net basis, for those born in third countries,
Canada is a way station on the way to the USA.
that you might ponder in your pride:
Migration between the United States and Canada:
2001 2006
From Canada to USA:
Born in Canada: 44,300 34,200
Born in USA (returning to USA): 24,200 20,500
Born in third country (onward migration): 24,100 18,300
TOTAL: 92,500 73,000
From USA to Canada:
Born in USA: 19,700 19,300
Born in Canada (returning to Canada): 9,900 11,100
Born in third country (onward migration): 11,900 12,500
TOTAL: 41,600 42,900
http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/11-008-x/2010002/t/11287/tbl001-eng.htm
In short, an outflow from supposedly generous Canada
to the supposedly miserly USA,
in every category, including those born in third countries.
On a net basis, for those born in third countries,
Canada is a way station on the way to the USA.
6
This is a truly excellent follow-up to what was already a superlative piece of reporting. Thank you to the New York Times for investing in superior journalism like this, and kudos to Jodi Kantor, Catrin Einhorn, Rebecca Collard, Gary Beltran and the photographers. I hope they do read the comments and realize that the work they do actually makes positive change in the world
As to the issue itself, what I find important here is to realize that doing true, worthwhile good is rarely a simple, straightforward thing. As the narrator says in "The Horse and His Boy": "He had not yet learned that if you do one good deed your reward usually is to be set to do another and harder and better on." I'm so impressed with these refugee sponsors, and as a member of another group that's about to take on a refugee family, it is hard to hear about the possible complications.
But I don't believe this is reason not to do good. We identify the challenges and do our best to address them. We can't fix everything, but we must try to do what we can.
As to the issue itself, what I find important here is to realize that doing true, worthwhile good is rarely a simple, straightforward thing. As the narrator says in "The Horse and His Boy": "He had not yet learned that if you do one good deed your reward usually is to be set to do another and harder and better on." I'm so impressed with these refugee sponsors, and as a member of another group that's about to take on a refugee family, it is hard to hear about the possible complications.
But I don't believe this is reason not to do good. We identify the challenges and do our best to address them. We can't fix everything, but we must try to do what we can.
146
Thank you - So great to hear someone compliment journalists and journalistic photographers! This piece was wonderfully conceptualized, and executed. The images of the Canadian refugee family with their sponsors, and the Syrian families side by side really drove the points in the article home for me.
1
We took in a young Russian mother and her baby about 15 years ago. She was college educated and her English was good. We helped her get into classes, paid for them, then took her to them, then helped her learn to drive. We lent her a car to get to a job. She crashed our car. We found her another, donated by friends. We had two high school age kids and they babysat, cooked, watched the baby and learned both how lucky they were and what enormous effort it takes to navigate a new life. Six months later, her husband received permission to enter the US. We helped with costs, but we decided we just couldn't devote the resources needed to add another refugee to the household. Another family took them in and he worked in their business. He's now back in Russia, but she and the son are thriving. He is an honor student and she works in city government. We are so proud of them. She recently became a U.S. Citizen. We wish we could do it again, but would need a group to help us. The illiteracy described woukd have been an enormous hurdle. I'd say it is most important to understand your limitations.
2
I do not know where my father's ancestral home in India lies. My paternal grandfather immigrated to Singapore some time in the 1930s or 1940s but remained poor. He was so inundated with requests for financial assistance from home that he cut off all ties to his relatives, overwhelmed by the bottomless financial want he could never satisfy. The lack of a connection to my grandfather's homeland generations later is still felt. My maternal grandfather brought numerous friends and relatives to Singapore after he immigrated there in the 1940s. I have been to his ancestral village in India many times and have been enriched by knowing where I come from. We all now live in Canada where we immigrated in the 1990s. My father feels an ache for his homeland and returns frequently to Singapore. As a child, I felt the culture shock that comes with moving to such a different place. But Canada is an accepting country. At medical school, my classmates are from all over the world and I feel at home. One of my proudest moments as a Canadian occurred when my classmate told us that her parents had both come to Canada as Vietnamese boat people. I was so proud of everything she had achieved for herself and her family from such humble beginnings. Though it may seem desperate now, I am certain that if these new immigrants are not immediately successful, their children will be and Canada will be greater for it.
156
Canadian here. There are many doom and gloom comments here about these newcomers not intending to integrate, and being some sort of cultural time bomb just waiting to go off. You all realize that this is far from the first large waves of refugees that Canada has integrated? Including Hungarians who came in 1956, and Vietnamese boat people in the '70s. In both cases, some say them as threats, with possible communist infiltrators. But in both cases, the communities were assets and they integrated successfully.
160
Just to keep Canada vs. the USA in perspective, on "migration" matters:
Historically, more people "migrate" from Canada to the USA than vice versa
-- that's counting Canadian-born and USA-born in both directions
and also third-country-born who "migrate" first to Canada then to the USA and vice versa.
Historically, more people "migrate" from Canada to the USA than vice versa
-- that's counting Canadian-born and USA-born in both directions
and also third-country-born who "migrate" first to Canada then to the USA and vice versa.
15
Sam Finn: a higher percentage of Canadians are immigrants than Americans. This is the number that counts, given that the American population is so much larger, so absolute numbers are not an accurate way to compare things.
I'm also not seeing the point of your comment, anyways. So, there are some Canadians who go to the US. What does that have to do with how well Canada is integrating refugees?
I'm also not seeing the point of your comment, anyways. So, there are some Canadians who go to the US. What does that have to do with how well Canada is integrating refugees?
4
It is much, much harder to immigrate to Canada than vice versa too.
9
After WWII my small surviving European Jewish family settled in 4 countries, USA, Canada, Brazil, and Argentina. None in Israel nor Europe. There was a Catholic family in France living in a country cottage which helped my sick parents and my siblings regain their health during the summer in 1949 and became their friends. Kudos to Canada for the people's compassion and quick action in this long term crisis. Lives are at stake.But a Hollywood ending is not always possible. Many German and Austrian Jewish talent that settled in Hollwood in the 1940s and 1950s could not make it due to language barriers and assimilation. Nothing is guaranteed at least in 1 generation.
13
I've a third anecdote to add to the two I've already told.
After a few years in this country, my nice refugee friend to whom I was like a sister and a mother was diagnosed with a benign tumor near her spine. The night before her surgery I slept in the hospital with her, because her husband was at home with their two young daughters. My family and hers had been eating in each others' homes for quite a while by then; she and I had shared many intimacies, the way women do.
There was a little confusion between me and the hospital social worker, because I kept calling my friend's husband her husband, and the social worker was under the impression that he was just a friend, because they'd filled out the paperwork that way so she could qualify for Medicaid for her surgery.
And my friend-to-whom-I-was-a-sister told me that she'd clarified everything by telling the social worker that I was just an acquaintance who didn't know them very well.
Yeah--I came to know them very well indeed.
After a few years in this country, my nice refugee friend to whom I was like a sister and a mother was diagnosed with a benign tumor near her spine. The night before her surgery I slept in the hospital with her, because her husband was at home with their two young daughters. My family and hers had been eating in each others' homes for quite a while by then; she and I had shared many intimacies, the way women do.
There was a little confusion between me and the hospital social worker, because I kept calling my friend's husband her husband, and the social worker was under the impression that he was just a friend, because they'd filled out the paperwork that way so she could qualify for Medicaid for her surgery.
And my friend-to-whom-I-was-a-sister told me that she'd clarified everything by telling the social worker that I was just an acquaintance who didn't know them very well.
Yeah--I came to know them very well indeed.
43
Live a decade where the state is corrupt and you will learn a thing or two about survival.
query: I have indeed lived in a place--the neighboring country to where my "friend" originated--for a considerable amount of time, during various corrupt governments (though the ethos always remained the same), and even under such circumstances, some people choose integrity, and some don't.
The first article in the series indicated that Mr. Hajj was offered part-time employment in a Syrain grocery store stocking shelves. He refused it, deciding that in Canada, he had choices, and he would, perhaps, like to be a mechanic.
Perhaps I am a terrible person, but I think my sponsorship would have ended at that point. He crossed the line from being grateful to entitled. He has to know that people are personally paying his bills and supporting his family. He wants them to sponsor family, indicating that, perhaps, he feels they have unlimited funds. To him, they must seem rich. He used to stand outside waiting for work with his brother, and now, he feels he has the right to refuse it. Never mind that he would be earning his own money, decreasing reliance on sponsors, allowing them, perhaps, to sponsor someone else. Or that he could bank a paycheck, so sponsors would not be totally responsible for an unexpected emergency. Or that there is a value to interacting with other people, which would jump start literacy in his own language as well as English. Being a mechanic takes training, and these days, computer fluency, which means literacy. Perhaps these things were not transmitted to him, but it seems unlikely from the article, where he was annoyed at one of the sponsors for her work to help him achieve employment.
He should have learned by now, life seldom happens on one's own terms. Accept any opportunity, and be happy while working toward the next goal.
Perhaps I am a terrible person, but I think my sponsorship would have ended at that point. He crossed the line from being grateful to entitled. He has to know that people are personally paying his bills and supporting his family. He wants them to sponsor family, indicating that, perhaps, he feels they have unlimited funds. To him, they must seem rich. He used to stand outside waiting for work with his brother, and now, he feels he has the right to refuse it. Never mind that he would be earning his own money, decreasing reliance on sponsors, allowing them, perhaps, to sponsor someone else. Or that he could bank a paycheck, so sponsors would not be totally responsible for an unexpected emergency. Or that there is a value to interacting with other people, which would jump start literacy in his own language as well as English. Being a mechanic takes training, and these days, computer fluency, which means literacy. Perhaps these things were not transmitted to him, but it seems unlikely from the article, where he was annoyed at one of the sponsors for her work to help him achieve employment.
He should have learned by now, life seldom happens on one's own terms. Accept any opportunity, and be happy while working toward the next goal.
103
many years ago, my father, an engineer, upon our arrival in the new country was told by well meaning relatives that he should become a plumber, because what good is he, not speaking the language? He refused. Got master's degree and has been working as a software developer for many years.
Mr. Hajj is absolutely correct in his choice. If the family wants a stable good quality life, you don't take the low road.
Mr. Hajj is absolutely correct in his choice. If the family wants a stable good quality life, you don't take the low road.
4
I fully understand what you are saying, though I wonder if he truly understands the skills that modern mechanic must have, after all we have dealer certified repairs, factory warranties, diagnostic computers etc. It's not enough to braze a patch on a radiator and say "fixed!".
What bothers me more is that the bigger picture here there seems to be a mentality shared by middle easterners themselves that the Mideast cannot be fixed, and at some point one has to wonder; if everyone in the Mideast wants a better life, and is all are willing to work assiduously and cooperatively toward that goal, then what is holding these countries back? It sounds bitter and selfish to say, but not everyone in the third world can be taken in abroad, and the question is really how can we help them within their own country?
I am no fan of Ann Coulter, but she had a point in noting that when a land is dysfunctional, is that not a reflection of the residents as much as if a country is peaceful and prosperous? At a minimum refugees must develop enough self confidence to start to think, how can we fix our country?
What bothers me more is that the bigger picture here there seems to be a mentality shared by middle easterners themselves that the Mideast cannot be fixed, and at some point one has to wonder; if everyone in the Mideast wants a better life, and is all are willing to work assiduously and cooperatively toward that goal, then what is holding these countries back? It sounds bitter and selfish to say, but not everyone in the third world can be taken in abroad, and the question is really how can we help them within their own country?
I am no fan of Ann Coulter, but she had a point in noting that when a land is dysfunctional, is that not a reflection of the residents as much as if a country is peaceful and prosperous? At a minimum refugees must develop enough self confidence to start to think, how can we fix our country?
25
(Not Mark) You most certainly do take the first thing that comes along if someone else (esp. not family) is paying the bills. What an attitude!
17
When my ancestors were trying to escape the Famine in Ireland, some Americans welcomed them, but many said they weren't our problem and they would change the country drastically over time. They and other immigrants did indeed change the country. Thank God for that, and shame on their descendants who would now close the door on others.
129
Neither your ancestors nor mine were much of a drain on public resources, of which there were not many. Our ethnic communities formed fraternal organizations, created credit unions when the larger society wouldn't lend them money; etc. etc. They ended up contributing more than they took, because there was no other option.
And they became Americans, because there was little hope of going back, even for a visit. If they did visit the old country, everyone there laughed at them because they were no longer what they had left behind. They began intermarrying, often to the despair of their parents, but we have the culture we do now precisely because their circles kept widening.
That is not happening among the people being profiled here. Insular communities are growing everywhere.
And they became Americans, because there was little hope of going back, even for a visit. If they did visit the old country, everyone there laughed at them because they were no longer what they had left behind. They began intermarrying, often to the despair of their parents, but we have the culture we do now precisely because their circles kept widening.
That is not happening among the people being profiled here. Insular communities are growing everywhere.
51
In addition, being a good follower of Islam may lead to conflict with the secular society around them. Terrorism is the ultimate expression, but most would not even contemplate that. However, there are plenty of aspects of a conservative practice of religion that I find incompatible with western society.
33
The absence of any appearance of birth control is one example of what is incompatible with western society. Extended families at home begging to be sponsored in a wealthy country, and children whose care will end up being the responsibility of sponsors and the sponsoring country will eventually overwhelm social services, as they have in Germany, Sweden et al. Other than cooking and cleaning, what do these women do other than producing more children to be cared for by sponsors? If you can't provide for yourself without help, how do you expect to care for a big family?
31
This story brings back so many memories and feelings from assisting Central American refugees over three decades ago. We volunteers start with enthusiasm and energy, propelled by true concern. Our lives gain a new focus, but sometimes we don't have time for the needy ones in our own families. Some of the families adapt well, but others don't and have endless needs. ALL of them have relatives they want to bring. I have watched families spend decades pouring all their extra money and time into a never-ending stream of siblings, parents, cousins, nieces and nephews. I spent an hour on the phone last month with a former refugee, a woman who herself is very independent but has spent a year with her home packed to the rafters with relatives who aren't making the progress they need to make. After a year, still no English, no progress toward finding housing, kids out of control, won't learn to drive (too scared), etc. etc.
People who volunteer for refugee resettlement need to have realistic expectations. It is NOT a substitute for having your own grandkids or loving family. You may become and stay close to the family, or most likely you will drift apart over time. The refugees are people with their complexities and imperfections and sides that sometimes aren't that lovable. We volunteers cannot remake them in our image.
People who volunteer for refugee resettlement need to have realistic expectations. It is NOT a substitute for having your own grandkids or loving family. You may become and stay close to the family, or most likely you will drift apart over time. The refugees are people with their complexities and imperfections and sides that sometimes aren't that lovable. We volunteers cannot remake them in our image.
55
In addition to what you point out is the tragic story that some of the Salvadoran refugee boys grew up in Los Angeles where they formed street gangs. They became so violent that they were thrown out of our country, and wound up back in El Salvador where they sell drugs and commit other crimes.
In fact, some of the thousands of Central Americans, who are currently seeking asylum here, are claiming to be running from these gangs. So by helping some of these refugees, we actually made matters worse!!
In fact, some of the thousands of Central Americans, who are currently seeking asylum here, are claiming to be running from these gangs. So by helping some of these refugees, we actually made matters worse!!
10
I recall reading in the Times that Syrians are actually educated, skilled people, like doctors, engineers, etc. This guy in the article is an illiterate farmer/sheep herder. He's not bringing any needed skills, just many mouths to feed, and the couple are probably not done having children yet.
I know that sounds harsh but I'm sick of the constant propaganda in favor of taking in the world's problems when we have our own needy people. Europe is going to pay a steep price for Merkel's soft-hearted/soft-headed generosity. We don't need to go down the same road!
I know that sounds harsh but I'm sick of the constant propaganda in favor of taking in the world's problems when we have our own needy people. Europe is going to pay a steep price for Merkel's soft-hearted/soft-headed generosity. We don't need to go down the same road!
157
I would like to see some of the money being spent on refugees and economic migrants spent on Detroit and Chicago. Money spent to improve schools and health services, transportation etc. There are "refugees" trapped in those inner cities who are also without hope. Now, we need to import masses of foreign needy people whose only hope is to arrive here, have more kids, and receive support and medical care? Maybe it is the reverse of "the devil you know". I prefer to help our own.
27
How very, very sad for you, and for the many people who gave you a thumbs up.
7
Rhena: Pretentious, look it up. I'm fine with what I had to say about helping Americans trapped in poverty, poor neighborhoods and schools, joblessness and living day to day without hope for anything better.
9
Ask the new immigrants if they can get along with other religious groups. In the middle-east there is hatred other's who are not like themselves. I wouldn't want them to bring there prejudice to this land. If nice people, then it might be ok to help out a little. I also think we have a lot of poor people here that need to be cared for first.
The Arab countries should also take in immigrants , some are very rich. Don't you think? Where are they?
The Arab countries should also take in immigrants , some are very rich. Don't you think? Where are they?
47
I am loathe to admit it, but there is something to your logic. Economic success is due in large part to citizenry being able to work together. Dysfunctional societies maintain sectarian, even tribal notions of winner take all government where it is normal to reward ones own clan to such an extent that every transfer of power is accompanied by jailing or killing members of the previous regime. No matter where someone is, either here or abroad, that mindset must be fixed.
As an aside I fear the Trumpification of the United States might herald some for of new feudalism.
As an aside I fear the Trumpification of the United States might herald some for of new feudalism.
7
I read 100s of comments every day at every article concerned with asylum seekers - today about half of the 92 here. Almost never in months and months have a read a comment in which the writer tells us what he or she has done to help, get to know, and/or learn from an asylum seeker.
All the Times gives us is one-family stories, here having to step across the border to do so. So Times comment section try something different, ask your 1000s of commenters about their own personal experience with one or many asylum seekers. Or give us the counterpart of Race/Race related where we can all report.
I understand you only have 10,000 Syrians in a US with 323,000,000 people so finding a Syrian to meet and maybe help might be difficult. Here we took in 180,000 asylum seekers last year, perhaps half from Syria so in a country of only 10,000,000 they are not hard to find.
Give us a meeting place NYT.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Dual citizen US SE
All the Times gives us is one-family stories, here having to step across the border to do so. So Times comment section try something different, ask your 1000s of commenters about their own personal experience with one or many asylum seekers. Or give us the counterpart of Race/Race related where we can all report.
I understand you only have 10,000 Syrians in a US with 323,000,000 people so finding a Syrian to meet and maybe help might be difficult. Here we took in 180,000 asylum seekers last year, perhaps half from Syria so in a country of only 10,000,000 they are not hard to find.
Give us a meeting place NYT.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Dual citizen US SE
You neglect to mention the political upheaval your "open door" policy has created. Your fellow Swedes are not as happy as you seem to be welcoming more and more needy migrants, not all of whom are skilled, educated, job ready, etc. Has it occurred to you that you are receiving economic migrants who also claim to be "refugees"?
16
@ Chris Miilu - Chico CA - Chris you are off topic, you do not reply to my comment but bring up another subject. You have 5 recommends that illustrate why I pose the question I do.
The article before is concerns how Canadian individuals, that is people whose families have Canadian roots going back in time decide to try to help and get to know new arrivals defined either in terms of religion or nationality.
I could answer all the questions you raise since I have lived here 21 years, have worked with "nyanlända" (new arrivals who come for many reasons) at the Red Cross for at least 16 of those 21. But your questions are not concerned with neither my comment or with the article.
You might want to re-visit my other comment where you also have a reply. Here is the URL to that comment: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/10/22/world/americas/canada-refu...
The replies there do address my comment there so I will shortly reply to some.
So why don't you tell us about the maternal and paternal lines of descent for your family. Who came first to the US, why, when and more.
My great grandparents came to America as economic and possibly even religious migrants. How about yours?
The article before is concerns how Canadian individuals, that is people whose families have Canadian roots going back in time decide to try to help and get to know new arrivals defined either in terms of religion or nationality.
I could answer all the questions you raise since I have lived here 21 years, have worked with "nyanlända" (new arrivals who come for many reasons) at the Red Cross for at least 16 of those 21. But your questions are not concerned with neither my comment or with the article.
You might want to re-visit my other comment where you also have a reply. Here is the URL to that comment: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/10/22/world/americas/canada-refu...
The replies there do address my comment there so I will shortly reply to some.
So why don't you tell us about the maternal and paternal lines of descent for your family. Who came first to the US, why, when and more.
My great grandparents came to America as economic and possibly even religious migrants. How about yours?
I don't know what you are talking about. In answer to your question: My mother's family came from Ireland to San Francisco via Boston, on a Clipper ship, in 1852; my father's family arrived from Ireland in 1850, and traveled to Oregon with a wagon train. Those are the immediate lines of descent in my family. My family were not religious migrants: one side was escaping the famine in Ireland; the other side sold land to British aristocrats because they saw they would lose their land either way; they used the money to sail from Wexford to Quebec to Boston and then via wagon train over the Oregon Trail to Oregon where they bought land on the Willamette River. The family still holds that land. I thought the topic was refugees and/or migrants looking for places of refuge. As far as I know from articles in the newspapers, Norway admitted many minor refugees coming through the Russian border, and it is now doing border checks to establish real age. Sweden has also admitted many refugees, and it has now become a politically charged topic of discussion. Germany has taken approx. 250,000 refugees and that has created a political problem; Austria kept its borders closed. Denmark never opened its doors to refugees. The Balkan countries have now begun to erect walls and fences. What this might mean is that small, homogeneous European countries cannot continue to absorb large migrations from the Middle East.
1
I have the letter that my great-grandfather Hokanson wrote to his bride to be in 1860s Sweden. "Sister, I am sending two tickets, one for you, one for my brother." Same on the Lundgren side of the family. First one, then family, then friends. And they kept speaking Swedish for a long time;my father's parents did so until he started first grade.
In America on one side 11 kids from Hanna Hokanson, on the other side 9 or 10 from the Lundgren side (not sure how many stillbirths).
The above is directed to all who write about fertility of Arabs, failure to learn English in a short time, and lack of education in the home country. Check your family history before writing your next comment.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Dual citizen US SE
In America on one side 11 kids from Hanna Hokanson, on the other side 9 or 10 from the Lundgren side (not sure how many stillbirths).
The above is directed to all who write about fertility of Arabs, failure to learn English in a short time, and lack of education in the home country. Check your family history before writing your next comment.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Dual citizen US SE
193
My Dutch ancestor's religion or personal beliefs, came over in the late 1890's, did not inspire terrorist actions.
43
Larry: How many children does the average Swede or Swedish-American or American of Swedish ancestry have these days?
One of the intractable problems (and in reference to another comment of yours, I had very close what-thought-were-friendships with a refugee family, as well as founding a women's center overseas) is that some parts of the world still live as though these are the 1860s.
One of the intractable problems (and in reference to another comment of yours, I had very close what-thought-were-friendships with a refugee family, as well as founding a women's center overseas) is that some parts of the world still live as though these are the 1860s.
45
(Not Mark) So, what happened over 100 years ago to your (or anyone else's) family is pertinent to today? Not.
13
There is a hidden message for those of you who want to bring the Syrians over here.
English is one of the hardest languages to learn. If someone has been a Syrian Farmer or goat herder, as the article points out, he and his family will likely be illiterate in their own language. They probably will never learn to really speak English and will require state support all their lives. They will be lucky to get some job in a warehouse or other menial labor which does not require much knowledge of English. Their children may learn English but that is not a given if they stay in a Syrian community.
They will have a hard time adjusting to the culture which is radically different from their own. Read the stories from Germany about adjustment problem and the trouble they are causing in come communities.
In terms of resettling refugees, the State Department should only be choosing those with higher levels of education and perhaps had professional training and worked in Professional business. These will adjust and be part of community in a reasonable short time. They were successful in the Past in Syria and are most apt to be successful here.
It is wrong to take the most vulnerable as they will be the least apt to adjust but will have to live off the taxpayer their entire life. There is a real lack of thought going on in this whole process. We are doing no one a favor by taking the most vulnerable. We should remind them that when the war ends they must return to help rebuild Syria.
English is one of the hardest languages to learn. If someone has been a Syrian Farmer or goat herder, as the article points out, he and his family will likely be illiterate in their own language. They probably will never learn to really speak English and will require state support all their lives. They will be lucky to get some job in a warehouse or other menial labor which does not require much knowledge of English. Their children may learn English but that is not a given if they stay in a Syrian community.
They will have a hard time adjusting to the culture which is radically different from their own. Read the stories from Germany about adjustment problem and the trouble they are causing in come communities.
In terms of resettling refugees, the State Department should only be choosing those with higher levels of education and perhaps had professional training and worked in Professional business. These will adjust and be part of community in a reasonable short time. They were successful in the Past in Syria and are most apt to be successful here.
It is wrong to take the most vulnerable as they will be the least apt to adjust but will have to live off the taxpayer their entire life. There is a real lack of thought going on in this whole process. We are doing no one a favor by taking the most vulnerable. We should remind them that when the war ends they must return to help rebuild Syria.
61
"It is wrong to take the most vulnerable..."
-----------------------
How unlike the Jesus conservatives are always peddling to the rest of us.
Really - could the irony be any thicker?
-----------------------
How unlike the Jesus conservatives are always peddling to the rest of us.
Really - could the irony be any thicker?
9
English the hardest language to learn? Maybe try Arabic. Or Chinese.
9
Mother`s tongue is easily picked up by nearly every child. Once we`re past our teens learning a foreign language gets increasingly difficult. Not impossible, but chances are one will always sound like a stranger.
3
This story well illustrates the illogic and ultimate unsustainability
of unlimited family "chain migration."
When people migrate, they need to make choices
-- including "leaving behind" their former life, including family members,
especially those who are not part of their immediate "nuclear family"
(parent couple and minor children).
Host or destination countries have absolutely no obligation to take in any immigrants of any kind
-- whether skill-based or family-based, whether refugees or otherwise.
Each host or destination country has the absolute right to make its own decisions in its own best interest.
Canada, of course, can make its own decisions about refugees and immigration.
BTW, historically, more people "migrate" from Canada to the USA than vice versa
-- that's counting Canadian-born and USA-born in both directions
and also third-country-born who "migrate" first to Canada then to the USA and vice versa.
The USA has nothing to be ashamed of when it comes to hosting or taking in "migrants" (whether "refugees" or otherwise).
of unlimited family "chain migration."
When people migrate, they need to make choices
-- including "leaving behind" their former life, including family members,
especially those who are not part of their immediate "nuclear family"
(parent couple and minor children).
Host or destination countries have absolutely no obligation to take in any immigrants of any kind
-- whether skill-based or family-based, whether refugees or otherwise.
Each host or destination country has the absolute right to make its own decisions in its own best interest.
Canada, of course, can make its own decisions about refugees and immigration.
BTW, historically, more people "migrate" from Canada to the USA than vice versa
-- that's counting Canadian-born and USA-born in both directions
and also third-country-born who "migrate" first to Canada then to the USA and vice versa.
The USA has nothing to be ashamed of when it comes to hosting or taking in "migrants" (whether "refugees" or otherwise).
36
This is all very well and good, but let's face the truth: the refugee problem is not going to subside; indeed, it's going to continue to get worse. Even if the war in Syria was stopped tomorrow and the country rebuilt and made whole again, the underlying problem remains: overpopulation. Wars will continue, not over ideology, but over dwindling amounts of food and potable water, and mass worldwide starvation will ensue. The best thing the countries taking in these refugees could do for all involved is start demanding these people go on birth control; if they won't then they shouldn't be allowed in. At what point does the good of the entire human race and of the planet take precedence over these people's supposed "right" to irresponsibly keep having more and more and still more children, none of whom they can properly care or provide for. Like global warming (itself caused by overpopulation), responsible governments need to start developing programs to reduce birth rates around the world, or face catastrophe.
101
The family in this picture requires constant help and services, and there is at least one very recent arrival. How about going on birth control, as well as learning English? If Americans struggle to survive on unemployment, food stamps and part time low pay jobs, what makes these people more deserving of jobs, rent subsidies, free medical care, free phones etc? The sense of entitlement is overwhelming; we don't indulge our own poor this way.
21
Not sure if taking these people halfway around the world will, in the end, be of real help to them.
Adults who are nearly 40 years old who
(1) can not read
(2) can not write
(3) have no skills (Sheepherding?)
(4) are UNEMPLOYABLE - at best will never be able to get anything better than a low wage job sweeping floors
(5) keep having more & more kids that they can not support. The kids will grow in poverty in a family dependent upon welfare programs.
It would take an income of $46,000+/- to (a) pay for that apartment &/or (b) get them off welfare. Think an illiterate nearly-40 year old sheepherder can make that kind of money - ever?
When the support ends, they will be on welfare & will have to move - Canadian welfare won't pay that much rent. Kids will be uprooted from their schools & new friends
Poverty -meaning they are excluded from the main stream society which easily ends in alienation & anger. Alienated young men do bad things
Now they have 16 siblings of the wife and probably just as many siblings of the husband clamoring to allowed in - just as illiterate, uneducated & producing just as many kids they can not support
It would have been better to have helped these people resettle in a country neighboring Syria - should have just bought them a farm, a herd of sheep & given them the money to stay there instead of moving these people to a place where they will be doomed to fail economically & who will become isolated socially from the mainstream society.
Adults who are nearly 40 years old who
(1) can not read
(2) can not write
(3) have no skills (Sheepherding?)
(4) are UNEMPLOYABLE - at best will never be able to get anything better than a low wage job sweeping floors
(5) keep having more & more kids that they can not support. The kids will grow in poverty in a family dependent upon welfare programs.
It would take an income of $46,000+/- to (a) pay for that apartment &/or (b) get them off welfare. Think an illiterate nearly-40 year old sheepherder can make that kind of money - ever?
When the support ends, they will be on welfare & will have to move - Canadian welfare won't pay that much rent. Kids will be uprooted from their schools & new friends
Poverty -meaning they are excluded from the main stream society which easily ends in alienation & anger. Alienated young men do bad things
Now they have 16 siblings of the wife and probably just as many siblings of the husband clamoring to allowed in - just as illiterate, uneducated & producing just as many kids they can not support
It would have been better to have helped these people resettle in a country neighboring Syria - should have just bought them a farm, a herd of sheep & given them the money to stay there instead of moving these people to a place where they will be doomed to fail economically & who will become isolated socially from the mainstream society.
236
Can Wyoming take in anybody? I noticed recently that there was nobody there.
In Toronto, most of these refugees must go to food banks to survive. I have heard that many Syrians in Canada are having trouble accessing any English or French language training at all. In Toronto, the English as a second language programs in schools are totally full. A lot of kids that really need the program can't get in and are just dumped in regular stream classes where they don't understand what is going on. Trudeau just rushed these refugees in for political reasons, to make himself look like a generous guy. Then he left the cities to deal with them. There was no long-term federal government commitment to them.
'rub-a dub dub, three men in a tub' That's already untenable.
'rub-a dub dub, endless people in a tub. That's just not workable AT ALL!
The 'world' cannot be 'saved'. Each country suffering dictatorship must rise up, forment revolution, fight, and yes, die, for a better life. Running away to 'the good life on others countries generosity is not a solution.
'rub-a dub dub, endless people in a tub. That's just not workable AT ALL!
The 'world' cannot be 'saved'. Each country suffering dictatorship must rise up, forment revolution, fight, and yes, die, for a better life. Running away to 'the good life on others countries generosity is not a solution.
54
Perhaps part of refugee vetting and resettlement programs should be developing basic English competence before the entry visa is finalized.
Refugees determined to succeed in their new country will make the effort to acquire that new language. Others will not.
A policy of accepting smaller families first may also send a valuable message.
Refugees determined to succeed in their new country will make the effort to acquire that new language. Others will not.
A policy of accepting smaller families first may also send a valuable message.
64
How is a refugee, trying to survive on a day-to-day basis, going to find the time and teacher to learn a new language? I'm not sure what "valuable message" accepting smaller families would send. This type of attitude is why the US has accepted so few refuges, in contrast to Canada's so many.
4
JesterLaw: Let that be part of the aid programs already on the ground now. And unfortunately, many of those refugee camp residents have no work and spend their days in hopelessness. Let them begin organizing classes. They are not the first peoples in the world to face the horrors of displacement camps.
13
That is an excellent idea. Literacy, and the proven ability to learn English, should be factors taken into consideration before allowing someone in. Not because we're hard-hearted--but someone who is willing to work to learn to read and write, and to learn the language, has demonstrated the right attitude to succeed as an immigrant.
4
For a lot of the smug "I'm all right Jack" responses I read below. Have you ever been to a war zone and seen the death and destruction wreaked out. When you go to bed do you worry a bomb will hit your house or your family will be shot tomorrow when they go to what constitutes a food market?
Think about that when you go to your churches or temples and think you are a nice person.
Think about that when you go to your churches or temples and think you are a nice person.
13
not th problem of western societies to sort out th Mideast
21
Yeah but that is an ignorant way to look at it. Yes its terrible but there are 7 billion people on the planet. Too many, in fact. We have people who need help here. Why take those who aren't American?
18
(Not Mark) Temple? You mean synagogue? Ours helps plenty of people, especially right here in town. How many of those refugees from the ME would be happy to kill anyone seen going into the temple? Why don't the ME countries nearest to Syria help with resettling these people? The culture is similar and they have lots of money.
8
Learning new things is harder when people are suffering from PTSD. I hope that part of the process includes mental health treatment. Further than that, they can be inspired to work hard at learning English and new skills by the promise of being able to bring their relatives when they accomplish certain milestones for themselves.
There is a thing called "learned helplessness" and it seems as if the wife is suffering from that. It is probably caused by a combination of experiences in her life where she was only effective or safe when she acted helpless.
There is a thing called "learned helplessness" and it seems as if the wife is suffering from that. It is probably caused by a combination of experiences in her life where she was only effective or safe when she acted helpless.
68
Wow. So much demeaning, in so few sentences.
Shame.
Shame.
1
This is not learned helplessness. I lived 4 years in Uganda, not a refugee country but one which is largely rural and with poor education, although improving. When you have never seen a traffic light, or any of the technology we do not even notice because it has become part of us you have no idea what is possible and what you are missing let alone being able to use it. If you do not have the sophisticated use of language that every native speaker has it completely undermines your self confidence and ability to interact with your community. And so it goes on.
I so fully understand the problems for the sponsors as we are still. ten years later, involved in helping orphan children who were10 - 15 years old to get their degrees and livelihoods on track. There is no answer as to when you stop, there will always be others, there will always be illness and accidents due to poverty which must be fixed or the person dies.
It is the hardest thing in the world to say no to someone who has nothing, really nothing, when we however poor we may feel have riches beyond their wildest dreams. Try living in a country with very limited and expensive health services, no social service support of any kind, free schools you can't go to because you have no shoes or uniform.
These women are truly saints, and that is a hard road to follow.
I so fully understand the problems for the sponsors as we are still. ten years later, involved in helping orphan children who were10 - 15 years old to get their degrees and livelihoods on track. There is no answer as to when you stop, there will always be others, there will always be illness and accidents due to poverty which must be fixed or the person dies.
It is the hardest thing in the world to say no to someone who has nothing, really nothing, when we however poor we may feel have riches beyond their wildest dreams. Try living in a country with very limited and expensive health services, no social service support of any kind, free schools you can't go to because you have no shoes or uniform.
These women are truly saints, and that is a hard road to follow.
1
Not sure if taking these people halfway around the world will, in the end, be of real help to them.
Adults who are nearly 40 years old who
(1) can not read
(2) can not write
(3) have no skills (Sheepherding????)
(4) are UNEMPLOYABLE - and, at best will never be able to get anything better than a low wage job sweeping floors
(5) keep having more and more kids that they can not support. The kids will grow in poverty in a family dependent upon welfare programs.
It would take an income of $46,000+/- to (a) pay for that apartment and/or (b) get them off welfare. Raise your hand if you have the fantasy that an illiterate nearly-40 year old sheepherder can make that kind of money - ever.
Poverty - which means they are excluded from the main stream society That so easily ends in alienation and anger...... Alienated young men do bad things
And now they have 16 siblings of the wife and probably just as many siblings of the husband clamoring to allowed in ... just as illiterate and uneducated and producing just as many kids they can not support
It would have been better to have helped these people resettle in a country neighboring Syria - should have just bought them a farm in Jordan, Lebanon etc, a herd of sheep and given them the money to stay there!
It is not kindness to move these people to a place where they will be doomed to fail economically and who will become isolated socially from the mainstream society.
Adults who are nearly 40 years old who
(1) can not read
(2) can not write
(3) have no skills (Sheepherding????)
(4) are UNEMPLOYABLE - and, at best will never be able to get anything better than a low wage job sweeping floors
(5) keep having more and more kids that they can not support. The kids will grow in poverty in a family dependent upon welfare programs.
It would take an income of $46,000+/- to (a) pay for that apartment and/or (b) get them off welfare. Raise your hand if you have the fantasy that an illiterate nearly-40 year old sheepherder can make that kind of money - ever.
Poverty - which means they are excluded from the main stream society That so easily ends in alienation and anger...... Alienated young men do bad things
And now they have 16 siblings of the wife and probably just as many siblings of the husband clamoring to allowed in ... just as illiterate and uneducated and producing just as many kids they can not support
It would have been better to have helped these people resettle in a country neighboring Syria - should have just bought them a farm in Jordan, Lebanon etc, a herd of sheep and given them the money to stay there!
It is not kindness to move these people to a place where they will be doomed to fail economically and who will become isolated socially from the mainstream society.
73
If so many Syrians are indeed educated and literate, even have college degrees and professions -- why ON EARTH would Canada deliberately select a family of uneducated, unskilled, illiterate people who have zero chance of learning English or French, or finding employment?
They are absolutely going to live on welfare forever. MAYBE if very lucky, the younger children will learn English and get jobs. The older children are already showing they can't or won't learn English or try to succeed.
How many of these refugees will get angry and bitter, because they don't fit in and why can't they bring every relative and cousin friend from their village to Canada? All to go on welfare? all to pump out 4 or 5 or 6 babies, all on Canadian welfare?
How long until they are ANGRY ENOUGH to strike back, by joining ISIS?
They are absolutely going to live on welfare forever. MAYBE if very lucky, the younger children will learn English and get jobs. The older children are already showing they can't or won't learn English or try to succeed.
How many of these refugees will get angry and bitter, because they don't fit in and why can't they bring every relative and cousin friend from their village to Canada? All to go on welfare? all to pump out 4 or 5 or 6 babies, all on Canadian welfare?
How long until they are ANGRY ENOUGH to strike back, by joining ISIS?
7
We are going to be facing this challenge ourselves a short time after those here illegally are granted legal status and a path to citizenship.
37
I agree.
We need to realize that under current laws and policies, the more newcomers we have, the more newcomers we will have in the US. By that I mean that we can start out with two immigrants have their own children, bring over their four parents and also bring over brothers and sisters with their families, and that once they're here, their brothers-in-laws and sisters-in-laws can in turn sponsor their own parents and brothers and sisters.
I do not see how we can maintain the current system of allowing so many people overseas to have a "right" to come here. While that right might take 20 years to exercise due to number restrictions on the maximum number of green cards issued for the various immigration categories each year, it is still exists, a semi-promise extended by the US to tens of millions, soon to be hundreds of millions if we don't watch out.
How can it be right that we give golden tickets to a few and nothing to the many? How can the golden tickets continue to be issued without us knowing their ultimate financial cost to ourselves and future generations?
So many big questions that get pushed aside. They need to be dealt with.
We need to realize that under current laws and policies, the more newcomers we have, the more newcomers we will have in the US. By that I mean that we can start out with two immigrants have their own children, bring over their four parents and also bring over brothers and sisters with their families, and that once they're here, their brothers-in-laws and sisters-in-laws can in turn sponsor their own parents and brothers and sisters.
I do not see how we can maintain the current system of allowing so many people overseas to have a "right" to come here. While that right might take 20 years to exercise due to number restrictions on the maximum number of green cards issued for the various immigration categories each year, it is still exists, a semi-promise extended by the US to tens of millions, soon to be hundreds of millions if we don't watch out.
How can it be right that we give golden tickets to a few and nothing to the many? How can the golden tickets continue to be issued without us knowing their ultimate financial cost to ourselves and future generations?
So many big questions that get pushed aside. They need to be dealt with.
28
I have a Chinese friend who spent 10 years preparing to apply for citizenship. She is educated, an engineer. She worked, took classes and applied. When she received her citizenship, I sent her a passport cover with her initials on the front. She still uses it; it reminds her of the proudest day of her life; she earned that citizenship. What have these migrants done to earn anything?
11
Heh Chris
Exactly how did you earn your lottery citizenship?
Surely you did something remarkable to get the chance.Perhaps emerged from the womb reciting The New Colossus?
Do tell.
Exactly how did you earn your lottery citizenship?
Surely you did something remarkable to get the chance.Perhaps emerged from the womb reciting The New Colossus?
Do tell.
2
Many comments are saying that we should invest in infrastructure where the refugees are now, rather than giving a more resource-intensive resettlement to fewer families. I don't know that those commenters have a good idea of what life is like in refugee camps, where they remain in a holding pattern. Even if refugee camps have schools, clinics, etc., they are usually inadequate. It's typical that refugees who are in camps are not welcomed to become citizens in that country, don't have the legal rights of citizens, and have few opportunities for employment or education. They live in a purgatory of not being able to make lives for themselves, or hope for better futures for their children. Some refugees live for decades in camps, and it's no way to live. They must have an opportunity for true resettlement, in a third country. Much of Syria is in ruins and it's impractical to think many people will be able to go back anytime soon.
According to a UN survey in Dec. 2015, of over 1,200 Syrian refugees entering Greece, 86% of them had a high school or college education. Perhaps the family profiled here is not typical, and most educated Syrians will make an easier adjustment, find good jobs, and be able to bring family members over themselves.
I volunteer with a refugee resettlement community here in GA, and the people working there say that Syrians are usually well-educated and have skills to bring to the US - the easiest type of refugee to resettle.
According to a UN survey in Dec. 2015, of over 1,200 Syrian refugees entering Greece, 86% of them had a high school or college education. Perhaps the family profiled here is not typical, and most educated Syrians will make an easier adjustment, find good jobs, and be able to bring family members over themselves.
I volunteer with a refugee resettlement community here in GA, and the people working there say that Syrians are usually well-educated and have skills to bring to the US - the easiest type of refugee to resettle.
85
Most people get their ideas of immigrants and refugees from reading buzzwords or headlines or viewing a few TV newscasts or articles. Back at university, I took a sociology class that was specifically about these issues. Contrary to what people think, these folks in fact are quite different from the average person in their original or any country. Because of the risks of moving, even from a violent situation, immigrants tend to be risk-takers, more adaptive, better educated/ more skilled, wealthier, and/or have better connections. If they did not possess such traits or resources, they would have stayed in their own country to be begin with. Take my parents -- people seeing them in the 1970s would no doubt assume they were uneducated, and unsophisticated -- but they would be wrong. My father owned a company with 300 employees and my mother worked as a bookkeeper in a major bank. They each spoke 3 languages, albeit not English. We were wealthy pre-war.
The comments here are rather disparaging. Yes, the US needs a better immigration policy but there is no need to "trash talk" about people. It's sad that even supposedly educated and liberal NY Times readers can so stereotype a group.
The comments here are rather disparaging. Yes, the US needs a better immigration policy but there is no need to "trash talk" about people. It's sad that even supposedly educated and liberal NY Times readers can so stereotype a group.
1
These Syrian refugees were heavily vetted for over 2 years before being allowed to come to Canada.
So if "almost all Syrians" are college educated, skilled professionals...why is THIS family...so carefully chosen and vetted....completely illiterate and unskilled? and having four babies?
The fact is, those UN surveys are extremely cherry-picked, to give you the results you WANT and not REALITY.
Canada only took in 25,000 Syrians, and they clearly did NOT vet people for stuff like skills, or even very basic education. This family has ZERO chance of success, and will live on welfare FOREVER.
So if "almost all Syrians" are college educated, skilled professionals...why is THIS family...so carefully chosen and vetted....completely illiterate and unskilled? and having four babies?
The fact is, those UN surveys are extremely cherry-picked, to give you the results you WANT and not REALITY.
Canada only took in 25,000 Syrians, and they clearly did NOT vet people for stuff like skills, or even very basic education. This family has ZERO chance of success, and will live on welfare FOREVER.
3
Yes -this is an important point. Not all are educated, but many are. The family we are in touch with, are a doctor, an accountant and their 1 year old child, They have travelled in better times. Know quite a bit of English--are working extraordinarily hard to learn more. They are eager to do anything to make the adjustment easier. But even they will have difficulty finding work and being independent within a year. This is a huge task and sponsors are in it for the long term.
2
Years ago, a friend I'd known since HS wanted me to marry her Iranian brother-in-law who'd made it as far as Mexico but hadn't been able to get any further. She and her husband assured me I wouldn't actually have to live with him, or anything, and they were quite annoyed when I declined.
I have had plenty of opportunity to know many, many immigrants and refugees to this country from Middle Eastern/Muslim countries, and many of them were charming people, and none of them thought laws were something one needed to respect or that there was, in fact, anything wrong at all with immigration fraud. It was what you did if you needed to.
And I wouldn't be optimistic about the continued existence of the concept of "becoming American." The nice refugee family I knew, that seemed very cosmopolitan and with a mom who looked mighty sexy when she dressed for a party, raised three daughters--two born here, and despite all that public education and those hiprider jeans etc. etc. etc., they made arranged marriages for their two eldest (youngest not yet ready), and the middle girl now wears a hijab when her mother never did. Just letting you know.
I have had plenty of opportunity to know many, many immigrants and refugees to this country from Middle Eastern/Muslim countries, and many of them were charming people, and none of them thought laws were something one needed to respect or that there was, in fact, anything wrong at all with immigration fraud. It was what you did if you needed to.
And I wouldn't be optimistic about the continued existence of the concept of "becoming American." The nice refugee family I knew, that seemed very cosmopolitan and with a mom who looked mighty sexy when she dressed for a party, raised three daughters--two born here, and despite all that public education and those hiprider jeans etc. etc. etc., they made arranged marriages for their two eldest (youngest not yet ready), and the middle girl now wears a hijab when her mother never did. Just letting you know.
155
A female relative who was once a 'dancer' in a men's club was CONSTANTLY being asked to marry men from the ME, very often for money.
12
"We must not help the most vulnerable". "these people herd goats". "they have no education". And they will be a drag on government for years? Has Donald Trump come to Canada? Immigration is what made the U.S.A. and Canada great! And it was not predicated on keeping out specific religions, colours, creeds, or nationalities. It is our obligation to feed the poor, as it is our obligation to cool the planet, to care for animal species, and replenish our earth. For Gods sake, lets get on with it! [email protected]
5
A reason why many people from other countries appear to not respect the law is in many non-Western countries, they are not ruled by laws. Laws are arbitrarily made and applied and to get anything done, often requires a bribe, whether one thinks that is fair or not.
Furthermore, I would caution people to assume someone is old-fashioned, "not adapting to America", etc. based on a few superficial customs without really knowing the basis of their actions. I have two childhood friends who were born/ grew up with the US, are in "male-dominant" careers, participated in competitive sports at the college level and have husbands who cook and clean. But they both chose to have their parents help with arranging their marriage despite the parents being neutral about the situation. They just found it easier and more appropriate for their circumstances and it has worked out well for them. In contrast, a whole bunch of us struggle with dating and finding the right person.
Furthermore, I would caution people to assume someone is old-fashioned, "not adapting to America", etc. based on a few superficial customs without really knowing the basis of their actions. I have two childhood friends who were born/ grew up with the US, are in "male-dominant" careers, participated in competitive sports at the college level and have husbands who cook and clean. But they both chose to have their parents help with arranging their marriage despite the parents being neutral about the situation. They just found it easier and more appropriate for their circumstances and it has worked out well for them. In contrast, a whole bunch of us struggle with dating and finding the right person.
3
Almost everyone in the world has familly they would keep close if they could. Previous refugee situations saw the original person or family settling into the country and then bringing over their relatives. That was the past. Today people are apt to die. But remember, to save one life is as if you saved the whole world. We do what we can, and pray for those we cannot help.
8
I hope Justin Trudeau's government, and politicians here who think the grand gestures are really solving problems, will read this article and the readers' comments. As the article illustrates, it's a drop in a bucket, and as readers have pointed out, Western dollars go farther when they help these people where they are, assuming, of course, the aid gets to where it was intended, and not siphoned off.
60
They are practicing a kind of "compassion tourism" -- all fine and good, until they get sick of the "demands" from entitled Syrian refugees for more and more, while they refuse to learn English or get jobs. They will end up insulted and angry at their "small apartments" or having to do "menial labor for minimum wages" -- and of course, we see clearly here they want to bring dozens of relatives over too! All on welfare. None speaking English. None with ANY jobs skills. And of course, all of them pumping out a half dozen babies.
7
Just one comment...charity begins at home. When we've fully taken care of our own, then we can help others. That is the reality.
76
That will never happen, so I guess you're off the hook for caring about anyone else then. Good for you.
2
As usual with these kinds of stories, I have more questions. How does the UN refugee lottery work? Is it purely random, and if it is, wouldn't it make more sense, in both terms of host country security and refugee backgrounds, to prioritize referrals from well-integrating existing refugees? There's some risk of slowing integration by taking on a very large number of refugees at once, as well as placing too closely existing refugee social networks in their host countries (if you've ever been to a major US Chinatown you will be aware of the risk), but I think otherwise this kind of policy makes more sense, and mirrors much of existing policy vis a vis US immigration.
2
The pictures say so much: Old Westerners and Young Middle-Easterners.
No doubt chosen to arouse sympathy. But inadvertently they hit the heart of the matter which is high-fertility in parts of the world where it is not sustainable.
And what's so perplexing is that to bring that fertility down requires vast changes in the attitudes of what life is for, the place of religion, and the relationship between men and women.
And most of all the status of women. I fear that there are horrible times ahead as resources dwindle and the populations of Africa and the Middle East and South America. (Even as they dwindle in Europe.)
No doubt chosen to arouse sympathy. But inadvertently they hit the heart of the matter which is high-fertility in parts of the world where it is not sustainable.
And what's so perplexing is that to bring that fertility down requires vast changes in the attitudes of what life is for, the place of religion, and the relationship between men and women.
And most of all the status of women. I fear that there are horrible times ahead as resources dwindle and the populations of Africa and the Middle East and South America. (Even as they dwindle in Europe.)
75
The relatively under populated parts of the world are doomed to be over run by the masses of poor people seeking a better life from areas that are producing far more people than they can possibly sustain. Sure, wars etc play a part in this, but in the end, unless religion, tribalism, ignorance and the resultant unsustainable numbers that result from theses issues are reversed, everywhere on earth will be degraded to the same base level. At that point, immigration will cease because everywhere will be the same mess. Welcome to the future if our thinking doesn't progress beyond the ignorance, intolerance, and stupidity of the Koran, bible and all the other "holy" books. Reality is a hard thing, but in the end it's the only thing that will work.
32
For about ten years I sponsored a child in the Philippines through a Catholic charity. She graduated from high school and then the agency told me she had aged out of their system and they suggested I start over with a new child. But they didn't count on Facebook. She found me on facebook (we had exchanged letters so she knew my name) and I was thrilled. Even though we had never met, I felt attached to her. I started sending her small amounts of money via Western Union (equivalent to what the sponsorship used to cost me, which was about $30 a month). But then she started bringing requests to me to help her siblings. One could not afford her medicine. Another need something to fix his hand. The roof on their house was leaking and they needed money to buy tiles. I realized that the requests were never going to end, and that I could not support this entire family. It was all very troubling. I wanted to help, but I knew I could never do enough. So, I cut off contact with her. I concluded that the best approach to charity for me was to give to professional agencies that are on the ground in these countries and who can better assess the needs there. Person to person charity was not going to work for me. It was definitely a learning experience, and mostly one that just made me feel bad...
155
That's why groups like Save the Children abandoned the "sponsor one child" approach and began concentrating resources into improving the entire community of which the child was a part.
21
Heifer International is another charity which provides on site help. Chickens, one cow or goat, whatever the family can use and survive with. That makes sense. This movement of masses of people from one place to another does not make sense. So far, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait help no refugees and receive none. Iran receives none. Jordan is overwhelmed, as are Turkey and Greece. This is nonsense.
7
I'm sorry that your compassion and generosity were rewarded by your being "taken" by scamsters.
This is very sad, but often the case. I suspect as much with many Syrian refugees. Many have no intention of learning English or finding jobs -- why bother? Stupid Canadians will pay for everything! Free health care! Free food! Free apartment! Free clothes and toys for the kids! Free school!
Why work, when EVERYTHING IS FREE? So they won't. Now they are angling to bring every relative to Canada from Syria or Lebanon....even those who are perfectly safe from war. Obviously the good life in Canada is going to be better than in Lebanon!
And where does it end? It is very hard to prove (or disprove) someone's claim that "oh yes...this is my brother...his wife...and his six children" and of course, the wife has her own relatives.
Pretty soon, you have chain migration of hundreds of people. That is how we in the US got into the whole "illegal immigrant" mess.
This is very sad, but often the case. I suspect as much with many Syrian refugees. Many have no intention of learning English or finding jobs -- why bother? Stupid Canadians will pay for everything! Free health care! Free food! Free apartment! Free clothes and toys for the kids! Free school!
Why work, when EVERYTHING IS FREE? So they won't. Now they are angling to bring every relative to Canada from Syria or Lebanon....even those who are perfectly safe from war. Obviously the good life in Canada is going to be better than in Lebanon!
And where does it end? It is very hard to prove (or disprove) someone's claim that "oh yes...this is my brother...his wife...and his six children" and of course, the wife has her own relatives.
Pretty soon, you have chain migration of hundreds of people. That is how we in the US got into the whole "illegal immigrant" mess.
7
Well, at least now we know who the real pro-life Christians are among us.
11
(Not Mark) Just more virtue signalling. I bet you felt good just writing that comment. (Not a Christian by the way, just so you know)
11
If you aren't a Christian, then why the smug reaction to my comment?
The fact is that the Bible gets flung out the window like a cigarette butt the minute the conversation isn't about gay marriage or abortion. The hypocrisy is stunning, and to what my own comment refers.
I can't believe that needed to be pointed out.
The fact is that the Bible gets flung out the window like a cigarette butt the minute the conversation isn't about gay marriage or abortion. The hypocrisy is stunning, and to what my own comment refers.
I can't believe that needed to be pointed out.
2
More sympathy and charity towards the war refugees is needed.
Unfortunately, helping a few does not really address the problem.
The only possible solution is to resettle these people in their own countries or nearby.
We have been overly timid. The time for easy solutions has passed.
My solution is simple:
Carve out a large section of Syria close to the Turkish border and provide armed protection for anybody willing to resettle there. Deploy missiles and warn Syria and the Russians that they will be shot down if they get too close.
I am calling for a limited invasion to provide true humanitarian relief. Anything else is not a solution to a crisis that has been going for several years.
Remember Darfur? That crisis has now gone on unabated for decades
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/29/world/africa/sudan-amnesty-internation...®ion=stream&module=stream_unit&version=latest&contentPlacement=3&pgtype=collection
Who now cares about the Sudanese?
Unfortunately, helping a few does not really address the problem.
The only possible solution is to resettle these people in their own countries or nearby.
We have been overly timid. The time for easy solutions has passed.
My solution is simple:
Carve out a large section of Syria close to the Turkish border and provide armed protection for anybody willing to resettle there. Deploy missiles and warn Syria and the Russians that they will be shot down if they get too close.
I am calling for a limited invasion to provide true humanitarian relief. Anything else is not a solution to a crisis that has been going for several years.
Remember Darfur? That crisis has now gone on unabated for decades
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/29/world/africa/sudan-amnesty-internation...®ion=stream&module=stream_unit&version=latest&contentPlacement=3&pgtype=collection
Who now cares about the Sudanese?
13
This is precisely the solution required, the language and cultural differences between these most unfortunate people and western civilization norms are simply too difficult to overcome. This does not absolve us of the responsibility to act and extend mercy, we can and should establish and enforce a no-fly zone to protect innocent lives. I have wondered for years why Islamic countries wallowing in wealth seem to have no compassion for their cousins and co-religionists. Why not carve out a new nation to re-settle refugees from all over the Middle east and North Africa?
13
You are suggesting a refugee camp in Syria? If the Syrians fled Assaid, whose to say he wouldn't bomb your new camp?
5
He did mention a no fly zone.
2
Good luck to Canada. They're already paying for more than they know.
I was like a mother and like a sister to a refugee woman here. She was desperate to get one of her sisters into this country, but their forged papers were discovered before the visa was granted and her sister was permanently barred from the US. So they found a family in Canada willing to bring the sister in as their "mother," and I guess the Canadians weren't as diligent as Americans, and the sister was indeed admitted and then had a devastating stroke and is the permanent burden of Canadian social services.
Of course this is just one anecdote. But here's another. My "sister" wanted to bring her brother in for an operation, and found a nice American to marry him, and he came in and qualified for Medicaid and got his operation and went home and the nice American divorced him and went on with her life, and with some unreported income to boot.
It sickened me, but I figure karma will work itself out as it will. Not my place to interfere. But I'd advise every tenderhearted person to retain a little clear-eyed vision too.
I was like a mother and like a sister to a refugee woman here. She was desperate to get one of her sisters into this country, but their forged papers were discovered before the visa was granted and her sister was permanently barred from the US. So they found a family in Canada willing to bring the sister in as their "mother," and I guess the Canadians weren't as diligent as Americans, and the sister was indeed admitted and then had a devastating stroke and is the permanent burden of Canadian social services.
Of course this is just one anecdote. But here's another. My "sister" wanted to bring her brother in for an operation, and found a nice American to marry him, and he came in and qualified for Medicaid and got his operation and went home and the nice American divorced him and went on with her life, and with some unreported income to boot.
It sickened me, but I figure karma will work itself out as it will. Not my place to interfere. But I'd advise every tenderhearted person to retain a little clear-eyed vision too.
174
Yes, I see this clearly. One woman had a stroke, and is receiving healthcare. You don't specify the nature of the surgery the man needed, but if Medicare covered it, medical necessity is a fair assumption, so: a man received life-improving or life-preserving surgical care. I am not sickened. I do not mind that, at least in the case of the latter, my tax dollars supported it. You see a burden and a fraud. I see two human beings.
My tender heart is just fine.
My tender heart is just fine.
4
(Not Mark) I see people with no regard to our laws. That's right, laws are for the little people.
14
JW: Both of these people had a very large extended family across three continents that had no desire to contribute more than the absolute minimum to their care and maintenance. They were more than happy to let you contribute to it.
14
Another touching, story about refugees that tugs at the heart strings. Surely they should reunite every relative who wants to come to North America. While they're at it, bring all their friends, neighbors and anybody else they can round up. After all it is the Wests responsibility to make amends for ever real or perceived wrong of history by letting everyone in who is unhappy in their present situation from everywhere on earth. When North American has a billion or two people and we are at each other's throats over resources, religion, race, political power and all the usual reasons the tribal world is such a mess, we may finally realize that importing people for no other reason than we feel guilty, rather than helping them solve their problems at home (birth control, religion control etc) probably wasn't a great idea. Of course, it will be far too late by then.
168
Sorry this has nothing to do with philanthropy. ME is being ethnically cleansed of all non-Sunni 'riff-raffs'. Look at the dictatorships we are helping get rid off. Countries like Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Bahrain etc. are not being touched. No siree! they're all vibrant democracies with impeccable human rights records. After all what is more just or democratic than publicly beheading a poor nannie from impoverished Sri Lanka when her ward dies due to SIDS or chop off an Indian maid's arms because she tried to leave your employment or refuse to pay your Bangladeshi servant his dues because your prince has announced austerity measures? But Syria, Libya, Iraq should all be bombed back to stone age for not being a democracy
18
It seems far too many Americans have conveniently either forgotten or disregarded what created this gargantuan refugee mess to begin with and all one has to do is look at the American Military/Industrial Complex for many of those answers.
23
Overpopulation and sectarian strife in the Middle East is hardly the fault of the US.
90
Deus02** Amen ... While I'll admit not the total cause of this horrible mess, the destabilization of Iraq is a very big factor. Certainly the spark that started it all. And I am sure if one were to dig deep they would find the US confusing policy in Syria, hostility towards Iran, and now all this indiscriminate bombing is further fueling the refugee crisis.
4
there are no easy answers ppl. philanthropy cannot change the root of our problems. u save one, there are fifty thousand who die.
9
I am bemused by the many who write that it would be better to send the money to the Middle East so that these refugees can stay in their "own country" and get the education and help there.
Do they not understand the word "refugee"? Their country is a war zone. All of the education in the world is not going to change that. There are not going to be any economic prospects in Syria for decades.
Moreover, how many of these people are the descendants of earlier refugees to our country? Germany, Poland, parts of Russia, the Netherlands were laid waste by World War II. We accepted those refugees - in the millions - after that War. They faced the same prospects then as these Syrian refugees face now.
America was built on refugees - religious, economic, war ravaged, pick your cause or poison. Every single person in this country except for the descendants of the indigenous peoples is the descendant of an immigrant - all of them refugees of some sort or another. Anyone looking for a better life in America is a refugee from their own circumstances in their home country.
The REAL reason some people don't want these people here is because they are different. Well the Irish were different those many years ago. So were the Germans and the Italians and yet they now make a contribution to the country. These refugees will too, given the chance and the United States will be better for it as it has been with every other refugee admitted since the Mayflower arrived.
Do they not understand the word "refugee"? Their country is a war zone. All of the education in the world is not going to change that. There are not going to be any economic prospects in Syria for decades.
Moreover, how many of these people are the descendants of earlier refugees to our country? Germany, Poland, parts of Russia, the Netherlands were laid waste by World War II. We accepted those refugees - in the millions - after that War. They faced the same prospects then as these Syrian refugees face now.
America was built on refugees - religious, economic, war ravaged, pick your cause or poison. Every single person in this country except for the descendants of the indigenous peoples is the descendant of an immigrant - all of them refugees of some sort or another. Anyone looking for a better life in America is a refugee from their own circumstances in their home country.
The REAL reason some people don't want these people here is because they are different. Well the Irish were different those many years ago. So were the Germans and the Italians and yet they now make a contribution to the country. These refugees will too, given the chance and the United States will be better for it as it has been with every other refugee admitted since the Mayflower arrived.
202
The North America of endless open space, resources and a need for uneducated people with huge families ended decades ago. Sustainability and a knowledge that the earth and our society cannot take in everyone who wants to come here is the only practical way forward. If you want to look like Europe, throw the doors open.
76
Well said.
5
They ARE different. I do not care for religious conservatives, and present day Islam is the winner for the conservative title.
21
One son emigrates. He saves every penny in order to bring over his Mother and Father. They work and save every penny in order to bring over cousins. Soon enough, there's a city called New York, Boston, Philadelphia, Toronto, Winnipeg, Calgary, Phoenix, LA, Seattle, Vancouver. This is how it's done. This is how it works. From the Childrens Aid Societies of the 1880s shipping out Great Britain's orphans to live with families across the Canadian prairies and the US Midwest, to the schemes which settled refugees from the European countries broken by WWII in the new world, this is how the New World was built from the old. Are there 'more' now from Syria and the Lebanon than any where else? Ask the Tolstoy Society, ask Catholic Charities, ask all the agencies who have re-settled the victims running for their lives. Better, ask all those in the US who reached out to our own and helped the Katrina survivors settle, at least for a while, in such places as Phoenix, Duluth, Madison and White Plains. One way or another, this is how countries are built and grow and survive. It's good.
17
Not the same as before.
10
What a lot of depressingly narrow minded, mean comments by the spoiled and wilfully ignorant descendants of refugees who should be sent back to where ever their loser ancestors fled from so that America can be great again with people like the current crop of Syrians, since but for Syrians, no Steve Jobs, no Apple rather than whiners. No faith in humans or America.
16
"people like the current crop of Syrians, since but for Syrians, no Steve Jobs"-wrote query
This comment is totally off base. Steve Jobs was not a refugee. To justify the resettlement of illiterate, poorly educated refugees by comparing them to an educated man like Steve Jobs is not a good analogy. The refugees in this article could not put together a bicycle, much less a computer.
This comment is totally off base. Steve Jobs was not a refugee. To justify the resettlement of illiterate, poorly educated refugees by comparing them to an educated man like Steve Jobs is not a good analogy. The refugees in this article could not put together a bicycle, much less a computer.
18
James
You are wise to know the future of those children described is illiteracy and the inability to put a bike together.
Steve Jobs was born out of wedlock with an adoptive mother born of immigrants who thought the adoption was a mistake, adoptive parents his birth mother initially refused to consent to as they were uneducated.
Wikipedia baby.
But what care those who know the future possibilities of humans they don't even know?
You are wise to know the future of those children described is illiteracy and the inability to put a bike together.
Steve Jobs was born out of wedlock with an adoptive mother born of immigrants who thought the adoption was a mistake, adoptive parents his birth mother initially refused to consent to as they were uneducated.
Wikipedia baby.
But what care those who know the future possibilities of humans they don't even know?
4
Sorry if it's "depressingly narrowminded" to want immigrants to support themselves before bringing over their families--as MY immigrant grandparents did, and yours likely did as well.
It's one thing to work hard, save money, and bring over your family. It's another thing entirely to live on someone else's money and ask THEM to pay to bring your family over.
It's one thing to work hard, save money, and bring over your family. It's another thing entirely to live on someone else's money and ask THEM to pay to bring your family over.
3
Honestly, did these sponsors think they were living in a Lifetime Movie where benevolence triumphs and success ensues? These were illiterate people and you thought you could make them self-sustaining in a year? America's welfare program has failed on that front for generations.
158
It makes me want to move to Canada. Here, we read about the crisis but there is no personal involvement. Those sponsors in Canada are doing something about it themselves.
12
They're not doing anything about the real causes of the me and other areas problems. They are simply making them their problems. Not a good idea.
27
Based on history, it could be that there is no solution to the “real” causes of the problem. That still leaves the humanitarian crisis to be dealt with.
2
(Not Mark) Why not just move to MI or some other place where there are lots of refugees here? You could give room in your home to people coming from Mexico and central America if that would make you feel better. I'm sure there are lots of churches in your area that would be happy to have you. Just more virtue signalling, but whatever.
11
No doubt those who migrate on their own face similar heartrending choices. My grandparents came from Italy and Poland in the 1890s waves. I asked my Polish father once why we don't know any relatives in Poland—why his parents (I never knew them) did not stay in touch with family. He cleared his throat and said they all ask you for money, that's all. So after a while you have to stop answering. My father was a Depression child who grew up hungry, the youngest of a family of eleven.
We need to improve those societies, spend money where they are. We bear historical responsibilities. Stopping the wars has to be a priority.
Do you know what the worldwide third rail is here? Overpopulation. Birth control. In every country on the planet.
Worldwide demands of an ever-increasing population threaten the species. Meanwhile, according to Oxfam, sixty-two people have as much wealth as the bottom 3.5 billion.
What about these two facts.
What about them.
We need to improve those societies, spend money where they are. We bear historical responsibilities. Stopping the wars has to be a priority.
Do you know what the worldwide third rail is here? Overpopulation. Birth control. In every country on the planet.
Worldwide demands of an ever-increasing population threaten the species. Meanwhile, according to Oxfam, sixty-two people have as much wealth as the bottom 3.5 billion.
What about these two facts.
What about them.
114
I think you have hit the nail on the head.
21
There you go thinking about facts. Who cares how over populated the world is, let them all come to North America, it will all work out. Have faith, not facts.
28
I spoke with a woman with direct experience working in refugee camps in Jorda. Birth control is availbale but most of the women and men wouldn't use it preferring to have more children even though they face an uncertain amount of time in the refugee camp. That really gave me pause. To continue to have children that you have no way of feeding, clothing and educating is wrong, especially when you turn to others to pay for them. On many other points I am sympathetic but on refusal to use birth control in a war zone, this I cannot understand or support.
25
What struck me the most in the photos of the refugee children in Lebanon were their little bare feet. These are the same feet that we squeeze all the time of our children and grandchildren...I don't know what the solution is, but turning away just isn't right.
As I was reading this article Trump appeared onscreen for a clip of a live speech he was giving this morning, stating he would stop the inflow of any Syrian refugees ("We don't know these people!")...yes, we do - they are us.
As I was reading this article Trump appeared onscreen for a clip of a live speech he was giving this morning, stating he would stop the inflow of any Syrian refugees ("We don't know these people!")...yes, we do - they are us.
13
No, we don't. No, they are not "us". They are not the same as those Western Europeans, and Eastern Europeans who came to us with a shared Western culture, including religious belief systems. These migrants are truly foreign in their cultural beliefs and religious beliefs. I don't want to support them, or their extended families or their free phone lines. I want my tax dollars to go into our inner cities to improve schools, water and sewer systems, housing and job opportunities. I choose to start with fellow Americans. I don't know these people. Let Canada get to know them; that's fine with me.
19
1. Everyone who lives in the third and second world who would like to come to the first world should be allowed to do so.
2. We should put an immediate end all world conflict and create a Martial Plan for the third and second world to raise their living standards to that of the first world in an environmentally sustainable way. (This would most likely involve telling the monetarists where to go.)
2. We should put an immediate end all world conflict and create a Martial Plan for the third and second world to raise their living standards to that of the first world in an environmentally sustainable way. (This would most likely involve telling the monetarists where to go.)
4
We already have a "martial" plan; I think you mean a Marshall Plan. There are parts of Yemen and Syria which will no longer sustain life due to lack of water and arable land. Somehow, those lacks do not keep their citizens from having more and bigger families. Perhaps they believe the West will take care of all of them; that won't happen. There are small school systems on the upper borders with Canada which are now overwhelmed with migrant children, e.g. Vermont and Maine. Their tax base does not support more and bigger schools.
15
Outside of global political crimes against poor countries, there's a reason why some societies advance and some don't.
If you are an illiterate couple whose livelihood comes from agriculture, and you keep having children, your life is likely to be wretched no matter what brutal chess game is played around you by your own government and others.
If you are a refugee and you keep having children though you have neither a home nor any security nor the means of feeding them, you and they will have a wretched life.
Even in very poor countries with traditional cultural values, some poor people begin to succeed when they refuse to follow the patterns of the past. I've seen that for myself. Human beings fall into the same groups, all over, regardless of culture. Some are smart, and some are not. Some are smart but are victims of others' actions, and some are not smart and are victims both of their own choices and others' actions.
I have also been called "sister" and "like my mother" by a refugee woman settled in the US. I wasn't and it took me a long time to realize it. I hope these very kind Canadian ladies will understand that success does indeed often need a kickstart but its achievement will lie with the choices of this family.
If you are an illiterate couple whose livelihood comes from agriculture, and you keep having children, your life is likely to be wretched no matter what brutal chess game is played around you by your own government and others.
If you are a refugee and you keep having children though you have neither a home nor any security nor the means of feeding them, you and they will have a wretched life.
Even in very poor countries with traditional cultural values, some poor people begin to succeed when they refuse to follow the patterns of the past. I've seen that for myself. Human beings fall into the same groups, all over, regardless of culture. Some are smart, and some are not. Some are smart but are victims of others' actions, and some are not smart and are victims both of their own choices and others' actions.
I have also been called "sister" and "like my mother" by a refugee woman settled in the US. I wasn't and it took me a long time to realize it. I hope these very kind Canadian ladies will understand that success does indeed often need a kickstart but its achievement will lie with the choices of this family.
77
Immigration is a positive force for change in North America.
That said, it's important to note that all immigration is not beneficial and positive - just consider the Pakistani who immigrated to San Bernardino with her United States husband only to kill or critically injure dozens - and our governments are their sole gatekeepers. And given their very poor track records in gatekeeping, we have reason to be concerned.
Not only does the American USCIS do little to screen K-1s, etc., individuals, but the Feds actually encourage dangerous populations to come to the United States as students, such as Saudi Wahhabists - Read: the 9-11 hijackers.
In the meantime, the vast majority of the Syrian refugees are being relocated in the United States to Dearborn, Michigan, home of one the largest Muslim ghettos in the United States. And we all know how well the Muslim ghettos work around Paris and Brussels now don't we...
In an era where it is critical for Americans to show that we are a kind, generous and giving people, it is also impossible not to see that the American government is simply not able to manage the Syrian refugee problem with any degree of competence, placing the American people at risk.
In my humble opinion, this issue presents too many complex questions for our governments whether they be Federal, State or Local to be competently solved. Staying our hand with this Syrian refugee issue should be the policy of our governments, period.
That said, it's important to note that all immigration is not beneficial and positive - just consider the Pakistani who immigrated to San Bernardino with her United States husband only to kill or critically injure dozens - and our governments are their sole gatekeepers. And given their very poor track records in gatekeeping, we have reason to be concerned.
Not only does the American USCIS do little to screen K-1s, etc., individuals, but the Feds actually encourage dangerous populations to come to the United States as students, such as Saudi Wahhabists - Read: the 9-11 hijackers.
In the meantime, the vast majority of the Syrian refugees are being relocated in the United States to Dearborn, Michigan, home of one the largest Muslim ghettos in the United States. And we all know how well the Muslim ghettos work around Paris and Brussels now don't we...
In an era where it is critical for Americans to show that we are a kind, generous and giving people, it is also impossible not to see that the American government is simply not able to manage the Syrian refugee problem with any degree of competence, placing the American people at risk.
In my humble opinion, this issue presents too many complex questions for our governments whether they be Federal, State or Local to be competently solved. Staying our hand with this Syrian refugee issue should be the policy of our governments, period.
37
How can the immigration of more uneducated, illiterate, third world peasants be a force for good? These people will be a drain on society for many generations if not forever.
69
German leader Angela Merkel is betting that the Syrian Refugees are a force for good and positive change in her aging Germany. It's quite a gamble and we shall soon know the outcome.
In the meantime, my recommendation is to allow Germany to take the risks and we stand back and watch. If the benefits do ultimately outweigh the costs of taking into Germany the illiterate and under educated from Syria than we can recruit from that pool at a later time. But for now, the risks are just too great and our governments just not up to the task.
And by the way, a fresh pool of talent that offers no substantial risk to the American people has never been bad for America, even when we've had to pay for them from the very beginning.
Does Ellis Island come to mind?
In the meantime, my recommendation is to allow Germany to take the risks and we stand back and watch. If the benefits do ultimately outweigh the costs of taking into Germany the illiterate and under educated from Syria than we can recruit from that pool at a later time. But for now, the risks are just too great and our governments just not up to the task.
And by the way, a fresh pool of talent that offers no substantial risk to the American people has never been bad for America, even when we've had to pay for them from the very beginning.
Does Ellis Island come to mind?
2
Wrong. Many immigrants lift themselves out of poverty, as early as the half- first generation -- i.e. the kids who immigrated here as children or the kids first born here. They see how hard their parents work and they are compelled to succeed and help out. The type of generational poverty you talk about is more applicable to the folks that have lived in the US for generations.
2
Who in the world decided one year would be sufficient to be integrated into
Canadian Society ?
Arabic is not an Indo-European language.
Shouldn't Arabs attempting to learn English/French be given more time.
The world has failed the Mideast and the refugees.
Canadian Society ?
Arabic is not an Indo-European language.
Shouldn't Arabs attempting to learn English/French be given more time.
The world has failed the Mideast and the refugees.
9
And the Arabs have failed miserably at controlling their population, religion and intolerance. Until they do a better job, it's not our fault.
83
"the Arabs have failed miserably at controlling their population, religion and intolerance" - Al Trease
If this is true in their own region, it's unreasonable to think that there will be a seismic change in their beliefs and behavior if they migrate to another country. Effective humanitarian aid would be to help them solve their problems while staying in their own (or neighboring) countries.
If this is true in their own region, it's unreasonable to think that there will be a seismic change in their beliefs and behavior if they migrate to another country. Effective humanitarian aid would be to help them solve their problems while staying in their own (or neighboring) countries.
9
Al,
The average Arab has no say in the government.
Grew up in the Religion of their birth like most people.
The Refugees fled war just like anyone else would.
Count your blessings you live in America.
And yes, it is our fault because we could have done much
more to help our fellow humans.
The average Arab has no say in the government.
Grew up in the Religion of their birth like most people.
The Refugees fled war just like anyone else would.
Count your blessings you live in America.
And yes, it is our fault because we could have done much
more to help our fellow humans.
2
I have no proof, but I think the best success stories have come from conservative Mennonite sponsored families. The men are taught trades, which allow for income, even as they are developing language skills. In Lancaster, the Hmong women, who already possessed needlework skills, turned to quilting. Studies show that the Hmong refugees in Lancaster fared much better than Hmong refugees in other communities, in part due to quilt money.
Minneapolis, MN and Columbus, OH have extremely high Somalia populations due to refugees. Columbus had the highest population outside of Somalia until Minneapolis took over. One agency in Columbus simply brought families over, then abandoned them, Groups such as Interfaith Hospitality Network stepped in to help.
The bottom line is that not everyone can be helped, and it is a growing web. I do however, believe in two related families coming together, simply because of the social support, especially when the sponsor isn't of the same ethnicity.
I also suggest informing Mrs. Hajj that bringing anyone else depends on the success of her family. As her family needs fewer resources, and can contribute, those resources could be put toward a second family. It might motivate to learn English. And, are there any ethnic businesses where they could work for a few hours? Assess their skills, and try to find SOMETHING, even low paying. It is a start to independence.
Minneapolis, MN and Columbus, OH have extremely high Somalia populations due to refugees. Columbus had the highest population outside of Somalia until Minneapolis took over. One agency in Columbus simply brought families over, then abandoned them, Groups such as Interfaith Hospitality Network stepped in to help.
The bottom line is that not everyone can be helped, and it is a growing web. I do however, believe in two related families coming together, simply because of the social support, especially when the sponsor isn't of the same ethnicity.
I also suggest informing Mrs. Hajj that bringing anyone else depends on the success of her family. As her family needs fewer resources, and can contribute, those resources could be put toward a second family. It might motivate to learn English. And, are there any ethnic businesses where they could work for a few hours? Assess their skills, and try to find SOMETHING, even low paying. It is a start to independence.
27
Refugees have a host of problems that well meaning sponsors cannot be expected to handle. That is why resettlement agencies with professional staffs working with trained volunteers are probably the best way to handle refugees and their issues.
My husband and I volunteer teaching english at one of our resettlement agencies. My church is sponsoring or "welcoming" a refugee family. We have been trained by the resettlement organization. Some churches in my city have been doing this for decades. As in many cities, my city has a thriving network of refugee and immigrant communities.
The kind of independent sponsorship featured here is a burden so great that it threatens to burn out volunteers ,leaving the refugees abandoned.
My husband and I volunteer teaching english at one of our resettlement agencies. My church is sponsoring or "welcoming" a refugee family. We have been trained by the resettlement organization. Some churches in my city have been doing this for decades. As in many cities, my city has a thriving network of refugee and immigrant communities.
The kind of independent sponsorship featured here is a burden so great that it threatens to burn out volunteers ,leaving the refugees abandoned.
22
Syria is a failed state and I cannot imagine how it an be reconstituted in less than a generation, probably never. Syria is split apart by religion - Shia vs Sunni. It cannot be re-established until the two Muslim sects can reconcile but that is surely hopeless because the schism occurred 1200 years ago and has never been settled. So it is necessary to move millions of people out of the area. The camps now in place are going to be the breeding grounds for decades of jihadists. We have the Palestinian camps as living proof right now. I am discouraged but we should do what we can at the margins. As a Canadian I am pleased that we have tried to our part, small as it is when compared to the total need.
9
Why stop at just one family, bring all their extended families over to Canada. It's the moral duty of Canadians to do so. Americans are too selfish and hostile to foreigners particularly the republicans.
4
You understand that the extended family has extended family, yes? My sister's husband has three brothers. The brothers have wives. The wives have siblings. The siblings have spouses. And children. And parents.
It's not that I oppose helping refugees. I just wonder who thought that you could bring X people to North America and not realize that X to the Xth power would want to follow them? And then people would want to follow those people?
It's not that I oppose helping refugees. I just wonder who thought that you could bring X people to North America and not realize that X to the Xth power would want to follow them? And then people would want to follow those people?
47
Jersey Mom,
Your point is well-taken.
But I think you missed MODEERF's sarcasm.
I think he actually agrees with you.
Your point is well-taken.
But I think you missed MODEERF's sarcasm.
I think he actually agrees with you.
8
Just like immigrants throughout US history, this family will have to become established monetarily and then help sponsor relatives to come over.
16
It is not possible to transplant half the world to North America. I would be more agreeable to use my tax dollars to improve living conditions for refugees providing housing and education.
Those kind-hearted folks who don't know how to say no will be the pathway to terrorists. Any human who has great needs will never stop asking for more. It is up to the benefactor to draw the line. Bringing additional family members AFTER the charity already extended should be a quick and swift NO. This removes the burden from the refugee families having to tell their families it's out of my hands. When the refugees improve their lives - they may petition for their family to come.
What perplexes me throughout this and the US plan - is that while providing a very nice start and life for refugees some Americans, perhaps Canadians only wish the same for their own families - a home, job and good education for their children. If it can be done for refugees - why not your own citizens?
Humanitarian Aid Begins at Home.
Those kind-hearted folks who don't know how to say no will be the pathway to terrorists. Any human who has great needs will never stop asking for more. It is up to the benefactor to draw the line. Bringing additional family members AFTER the charity already extended should be a quick and swift NO. This removes the burden from the refugee families having to tell their families it's out of my hands. When the refugees improve their lives - they may petition for their family to come.
What perplexes me throughout this and the US plan - is that while providing a very nice start and life for refugees some Americans, perhaps Canadians only wish the same for their own families - a home, job and good education for their children. If it can be done for refugees - why not your own citizens?
Humanitarian Aid Begins at Home.
124
That's what angers me in Europe. Our governments deny us help - our own tax money - then give our tax money to migrants (call them refugees if it makes you feel better).
The more you bring, the more they want to bring. Yet we have crises of our own here that desperately need tending to. This is like the proverbial deer herd expanding way beyond it's feeding capacity and eventually bringing the whole ecosystem down. Don't let too much empathy destroy our own culture. Our own way of life.
135
Interestingly, the argument you make is occurring in Canada. A couple of years ago, Niagara area schools were going to eliminate the traditional school Halloween party because immigrant parents objected to its premise. FB comments on the Toronto Sun page, and other FB pages was swift. I remember one writer stating that immigrants needed to study the cultures of Canada before agreeing to move there, and they needed to accept the host country's culture, not demand that the host country adapt to them. Another poster was livid that Canadians would be denied a Canadian tradition because of immigrants. For me, it demonstrated that Canadians have the same concerns as Americans, despite the subtle messages in the US that Canadians are socially and morally superior.
41
I appreciate your comment. One of the more bizarre occurences here in Norway was a muslim parent claiming that a picture of Piglet (Winnie-the Pooh) be removed from the wall in a children`s ward in a hospital.
The muslim population is relatively small in Norway, but their influence is far from small.
The muslim population is relatively small in Norway, but their influence is far from small.
23
Muslims currently are only 1% of our population. There is already too much noise in these regards.
7
I'm never really sure what to make of stories like these, they're very heartwarming but they also give this false impression that refugees all want to be here and therefore we have an unquestioned obligation to take them all in. They don't want to be Canadian, they don't want to be American, they don't want to be Europeans or Westerners, they just want to not get killed by bombs. If China was closer and easier to get to, they'd go there too.
Some will want to stay and they should, but most of them would rather just go home. Which is why it's important that we swallow our pride, stop antagonizing Russia, stop arming "moderate" rebels, and just END THE WAR. Let these poor people go home and live in peace.
Some will want to stay and they should, but most of them would rather just go home. Which is why it's important that we swallow our pride, stop antagonizing Russia, stop arming "moderate" rebels, and just END THE WAR. Let these poor people go home and live in peace.
30
What has not been covered in this series is the number of Canadian groups who have $50,000 in the bank, and have even been assigned Syrian families, but who have no idea when the Syrians will be allowed to come to Canada. This has been going on all across the country for more than a year. The money sits in the bank and the families sit in camps. It's a tragedy that needs to be exposed.
4
What I am wondering is why aren't the families of George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz, and, yes, Hillary Clinton, hosting every single refugee?
14
You forgot Barak and Michelle Obama.
16
Let's play which ones aren't like the others, shall we?
Are the sponsors also paying the cell phone charges for the refugees? Those calls from Canada to Syria and Lebanon are expensive.
As un PC as it may be; I agree with the sponsors to not bring over the other families until this one assimilates by learning the language, educating themselves, and finding jobs.
The sponsors have done a selfless thing, but let's not overburden their good intentions.
As un PC as it may be; I agree with the sponsors to not bring over the other families until this one assimilates by learning the language, educating themselves, and finding jobs.
The sponsors have done a selfless thing, but let's not overburden their good intentions.
102
Thousands of immigrants have come to Canada and the U.S. and had to make it on their own. Some help should come from other Muslim groups already in North America.
16
As I understand it from reading the article and commentary from some readers, Diud, 'other Muslim groups in North America', those already integrated to some degree in their new society, would tend to bring in their own extended family and not support with efforts and money some kind of general help lottery. I think it might take several generations before a broader humanitarian concept is learned and practiced.
2
RE the cost of communicating: the phones are using a simple wifi app -- "WhatsApp" -- for sending short audio recordings back and forth for free when connected to wifi. No extra cost is involved.
8
Sad that Canadians can welcome Syrian refugees, but here in America these same refugees are blocked from entering the country by craven politicians who have poisoned the whole idea of welcoming any Muslims.
Once again I admire these Canadians, who have opened their homes and lives to these refugees. They will be richer for the experience.
Once again I admire these Canadians, who have opened their homes and lives to these refugees. They will be richer for the experience.
10
Yes, the Canadian gesture appears admirable, but this article describes well that the reality is more complicated than high-sounding national gestures. The "craven politicians" are the ones we put in office and, in this case at least, they know that Americans are not behind open borders, with good reason.
34
Ask the Germans, French and the rest of Europe how " enriched" they have been over the last few years by the tidal wave from the me. If we can't see the folly of doing the same thing we deserve what we get.
50
Before anyone gets involved in helping others this should know study the culture and value system. In some cultures the husband is expected to help every member of his wife's family. As I have experienced in the past I tried to help a little girl only to have her extremely insecure mother accused me of horrible things I couldn't even imagine existed even when every child in the group jumped to my defense without any warning or discussion. I will think twice before I help anyone. My next question would be, would these same people do anything for a Westerner?
52
When I read this article I am brought back to our own immigrant experience. My father thankfully had a skill (as a radio technician) but my mother arrived in a brand new country with no English and 3 children under the age of 7. We didn't have internet, sponsor families, support. We went into a small northern Canadian town where everybody was white. Somehow we all learned to navigate society, English (a single English TV channel), and eventually became successful. I think it was because we had no alternative; the bridges were metaphorically burnt behind us. I hate to say this, but us and millions of immigrants over the last 200 years made it in America. I wish these folks all the success, but they need to pull up their socks and make it happen--they've got a heck of a lot more help than most us had.
119
There is a big difference between an immigrant and a refugee. Immigrants come to improve their life. Refugees come because their home has been destroyed, and they have nowhere else to go. Often they suffer the effects of malnutrition, illness and the psychological effects of war. Many people don't seem to understand the distinction, but having worked with both groups, it is a meaningful distinction.
5
Hard decisions, and kudos to the Canadians for their good work. Is there a Canadian organization that is taking in money to help the sponsors? I suspect many Americans would be willing to donate given that we are not taking in so many refugees (or is there a way to become sponsors here in the US?)
4
Stop the wars and you'll stop the flow of refugees.
What are "we" doing over there?
Seriously...
The peoples of the world need to peek behind the political curtain and figure out who the money powers are that controls their governments and their lives because the people themselves are obviously no longer in control.
The peoples of the world, including western so-called democracies, are no longer free. I say that because no intelligent observer can fail to see that governments no longer adhere to their own stated legal frameworks and constitutions. The leadership everywhere flouts the law at their convenience.
Free the people and they will rectify the situation. The extant path is untenable and will lead to chaos.
Who will free the people?
The people themselves or no one.
What are "we" doing over there?
Seriously...
The peoples of the world need to peek behind the political curtain and figure out who the money powers are that controls their governments and their lives because the people themselves are obviously no longer in control.
The peoples of the world, including western so-called democracies, are no longer free. I say that because no intelligent observer can fail to see that governments no longer adhere to their own stated legal frameworks and constitutions. The leadership everywhere flouts the law at their convenience.
Free the people and they will rectify the situation. The extant path is untenable and will lead to chaos.
Who will free the people?
The people themselves or no one.
13
An extremely well-written article. When I read the first article in the series, I did think of the many relatives left behind and figured this next step was not long in coming. (Recall the Syrian woman profiled in another NYT article; she had no use for resettlement in Canada without all of her 7 adult siblings and their families)
The future of the al-Hajj family is probably predictable. The parents will likely not become economically independent as the father will only be able to do odd-jobs. The wife will never work, both because she cannot function in English and her husband will likely not let her for cultural reasons.
The children will be the ones who will have to propel the family forward. At a young age, they will have to quickly take on the job of bridging the gap between their illiterate parents and Canadian life. Family roles may be strained as the children must take on translating and helping their parents in a myriade of ways. As the children get older, they may rebel, feeling ashamed of their poor, illiterate parents. And if any of the children face mental vulnerability/illness, they may lash out at society, feeling torn between the traditional ways of their parents and modern Canadian life. The daughters' futures will be interesting: will they be independent Canadian women - free to date and lead their own lives - or forced into traditional roles? It will take until the third generation for the family to finally be able to live as other Canadians live.
The future of the al-Hajj family is probably predictable. The parents will likely not become economically independent as the father will only be able to do odd-jobs. The wife will never work, both because she cannot function in English and her husband will likely not let her for cultural reasons.
The children will be the ones who will have to propel the family forward. At a young age, they will have to quickly take on the job of bridging the gap between their illiterate parents and Canadian life. Family roles may be strained as the children must take on translating and helping their parents in a myriade of ways. As the children get older, they may rebel, feeling ashamed of their poor, illiterate parents. And if any of the children face mental vulnerability/illness, they may lash out at society, feeling torn between the traditional ways of their parents and modern Canadian life. The daughters' futures will be interesting: will they be independent Canadian women - free to date and lead their own lives - or forced into traditional roles? It will take until the third generation for the family to finally be able to live as other Canadians live.
86
I'd say second generation has a chance of integration. The kids can make it, even into working class level. The parents will not, as you point out. It is a common story. In this scenario, parents sacrifice for their children.And by the way, the kids can integrate without having to give up their Middle Eastern traditions.They can become Syrian-Canadian as identities go in the US too, from all over the world. And that is the beauty of this country--and Canada perhaps. Those hyphenated identities of citizens.
1
Western societies are based on the concept of individual liberty and voluntary association even vis-a-vis nuclear families and their various limited extensions. Middle Eastern societies are based on tribe-clan-family, and individual identity is inextricably tied to this social order. It is a world of difference. Well-meaning Westerners would do better to put pressure on legislators, the UN, non-profit and non-governmental organizations, and the World Bank and global corporations to help refugees where they are and to aid pre-refugee populations, such as those remaining in places such as Mosul and Aleppo, in rebuilding their destroyed cities and towns. Avoiding global famine and water shortages and controlling population growth are our plant's biggest challenges. Stopping senseless wars, terrorism, and addressing ways to slow global warming are keys means to solving these problems. We need to make Russia, China, South Korea, Japan, Taiwan and other advanced political economies our partners in this, not our enemies.
42
So, under our current immigration policy, we can expect that for every 50K middle easterners that we would accept under a Clinton administration, each would have perhaps 30 "close" relatives who would receive priority to immigrate to the US to reunite those families. What might the expected outcome of this be in the short and long term?
83
Thirty? How optimistic of you.
This is why we can't let them in. Each of them will work tirelessly to drag 100 relatives or more with them.
This is why we can't let them in. Each of them will work tirelessly to drag 100 relatives or more with them.
37
This has been going on for a century and nothing new. When I became a citizen in the US (from Great Britain) some thirty years ago the immigration hall was flooded with extended Russian and South American family members sponsored by their relatives previously naturalized as American citizens.
5
Since 1965, U.S. immigration law has set aside a large share (not all, but a large share) of slots for "family re-unification", including parents and brothers and sisters. it can be debated whether or not that is a good policy.
But, in any case, for now, the slots are there, and have been since 1965.
However, there are at least some rules about how the allocations work and are awarded.
Americans rightly expect that those applying for the slots will follow the rules, and not violate them.
Fraud is a violation. Sham marriage is an example of fraud. Sham adoptions are another. So is document forgery. They ought not be tolerated.
Were the Russians and South Americans you mention prone to fraud?
Maybe. Maybe not. Tell us more, if possible.
But, in any case, for now, the slots are there, and have been since 1965.
However, there are at least some rules about how the allocations work and are awarded.
Americans rightly expect that those applying for the slots will follow the rules, and not violate them.
Fraud is a violation. Sham marriage is an example of fraud. Sham adoptions are another. So is document forgery. They ought not be tolerated.
Were the Russians and South Americans you mention prone to fraud?
Maybe. Maybe not. Tell us more, if possible.
Oh yeah. Once you take one, there's 300 cousins and relatives. It's fraud. Say no.
72
Yes, just like what Native Americans had to put up with from European colonists.
Except the Native Americans didn't say no.
Funny how's that's perfectly okay.
Except the Native Americans didn't say no.
Funny how's that's perfectly okay.
3
It's not a fraud. Unlike many Americans, people in most other countries feel a deep connection with and obligation to help their extended families. Americans are emotionally poorer for their selfish attitudes.
8
If you can think of no better comment it would have been wise to not have typed.
5
It would be preferable to find a way to support Syrian refugees while they remain in the Middle East. The issues described in this article exist with most of the impoverished Syrians: illiteracy, innumeracy, unemployment. Neither Canada nor the US can afford to offer aid indefinitely, and the idea of temporary support, as seen with this family, is impractical. Nor is it realistic to expect that, given the strong familial bonds typical of the culture, these families will not want to bring multiple relatives over, each of whom offers the same challenges. The immediate emotional reaction is "We must help," but as these generous Canadian women discovered, the need is overwhelming, as Western culture is for the refugees. It would be wiser to create an aid program that can be exported to those Arab countries who have accepted refugees; it is also time to confront the richer nations, such as the Emirates, about their lack of support for those fleeing families.
226
As a Canadian, unless you are aboriginal, all of us are immigrants from somewhere and being a refugee or immigrant has always been tough. My father arrived here at age 27 without being able to speak a word of English. He worked at whatever he could find and gradually, over several years, he learned the language and customs. His children and grand children, love Canada with all their hearts and bless him for making this sacrifice. In 25 years when these Syrian children are doctors and engineers, I'm sure they will do the same. Welcome to Canada! I'm glad you are here!
276
Ridiculous. Unless you're from Eastern Africa you're also an immigrant. So what? Sovereign countries not only have the right, but the obligation to protect and do right by their own citizens before taking in everybody on earth who's unhappy. The me problems will not be solved nor will Canada be improved by being flooded by people who share nothing with their culture. Europe just ran this experiment. It failed, miserably.
19
Absolutely. As a Canadian or an American; you are in fact born from the roots of immigrants. Unless you are First Nation (Canadian) or Native American (US); you came from somewhere else, my friends. Unless you sailed on a luxury ship from abroad; your family likely came from a world of war, famine, rape, or poverty. And the country you stand in now is the country that saved your family....and you. As Popeye says "We is what we is"; so do not try to be something else. We are not pure breds. How many countries are in your signature? I have 5. And we just carry on to pass the torch to save other families, that now, in our era, need our help.
3
"As a Canadian, unless you are aboriginal, all of us are immigrants from somewhere...."
As a Canadian, of course you can say whatever you want about immigration to Canada (and debate about it with your fellow Canadians).
However. as an American, I say, insofar as concerns the USA, that kind of mantra is insipidly tiresome and irrelevant.
We in the USA are not all "immigrants from somewhere".
Most of us here in the USA were born here -- even today, in the era of generous legal immigration (more than one million annually) and massive, uncontrolled illegal immigration.
The fact that our ancestors immigrated here from somewhere else was then.
This is now.
The mantra that "all us us are immigrants from somewhere" belies an obsession with ancestors and tribes. Such an obsession runs contrary to the very nature of American society today.
The ones who are alive today and here today legally -- whether as a result of being born here or coming here legally -- are the ones that "own" this country, and have every right to determine (under our laws) who comes here legally, and every right to try to prevent those who try to come here illegally from doing so.
BTW:
Historically, more Canadians have "migrated" to the USA than vice versa --
counting not only Canadian-born persons and USA-born persons,
migrating in both directions,
but also counting those born in third countries
who first migrate to Canada and then, from there, to the USA,
and vice versa.
As a Canadian, of course you can say whatever you want about immigration to Canada (and debate about it with your fellow Canadians).
However. as an American, I say, insofar as concerns the USA, that kind of mantra is insipidly tiresome and irrelevant.
We in the USA are not all "immigrants from somewhere".
Most of us here in the USA were born here -- even today, in the era of generous legal immigration (more than one million annually) and massive, uncontrolled illegal immigration.
The fact that our ancestors immigrated here from somewhere else was then.
This is now.
The mantra that "all us us are immigrants from somewhere" belies an obsession with ancestors and tribes. Such an obsession runs contrary to the very nature of American society today.
The ones who are alive today and here today legally -- whether as a result of being born here or coming here legally -- are the ones that "own" this country, and have every right to determine (under our laws) who comes here legally, and every right to try to prevent those who try to come here illegally from doing so.
BTW:
Historically, more Canadians have "migrated" to the USA than vice versa --
counting not only Canadian-born persons and USA-born persons,
migrating in both directions,
but also counting those born in third countries
who first migrate to Canada and then, from there, to the USA,
and vice versa.
8
As a Canadian supporting a Syrian family, some of the other heartbreaks occur when family members (including a 3-year-old girl) are killed from the Syrian government bombings. Seeing these photographs and the before-and-after pictures of the family's house bombed to rubble is heartbreaking. We should certainly do more to help the refugees in Jordan, Lebanon and Turkey. But supporting immigration to the US and Canada should also be part of our humanitarian aid.
40
Syria will be rebuilt. It will need a lot of help from all the nations who were afraid to get involved -- afraid because Putin is crazy and is backing Assad, afraid because nobody wants to get in a complicated ground war in the Middle East, afraid because removing Assad could lead to the whole region being taken over by ISIS. There were good, understandable reasons for nations to hesitate -- but what a horrible mess. (I blame Putin, largely, for backing such a nasty dictator.)
I think only when there's a plan to rebuild Syria will refugees have some hope and a sense that their choices are not impossible choices.
I think only when there's a plan to rebuild Syria will refugees have some hope and a sense that their choices are not impossible choices.
6
No good deed goes unpunished.
100
John, having reminded an international public expert of this famous saying recently, she laughed and found it amusing in a personal context, but the world is full of harsh realities and some of us in the humanitarian and humane area of Life would like to take a dream and make it into a goal.
1
I think ultimately it is smarter if we make refugees understand that eventually they must return to Syria to help rebuild that country.
The Germans are right when they say that most Muslims never real integrate into a community but prefer to be with others like themselves. That is why you see in this country communities or parts of cities labeled Little Mogadishu etc.
I think a more intelligent approach is to use the money to improve conditions in refugee camps - schools, lessons for parents, stores. -- make it seem like a community. I think that would make everyone happier. You read in the papers of refugees who want to leave the country that granted them asylum and return to Syria.
The war will end eventually and many refugees prefer to return to Syria than continue to live in a foreign land. Read some of the account in the German press to learn that refugee resettlement is a long and thankless project.
The Germans are right when they say that most Muslims never real integrate into a community but prefer to be with others like themselves. That is why you see in this country communities or parts of cities labeled Little Mogadishu etc.
I think a more intelligent approach is to use the money to improve conditions in refugee camps - schools, lessons for parents, stores. -- make it seem like a community. I think that would make everyone happier. You read in the papers of refugees who want to leave the country that granted them asylum and return to Syria.
The war will end eventually and many refugees prefer to return to Syria than continue to live in a foreign land. Read some of the account in the German press to learn that refugee resettlement is a long and thankless project.
164
Just like those Ukrainians who lived in Ukrainian Village in Chicago never integrated to their suburban houses in Arlington Heights or those Chinese (some of whom are de facto refugees) in Rockville, Maryland who never learn English (erf... I mean immediately learn English). Or what about my refugee grandparents who became doctors and professors in the US? Yes, send them all back. This is rich coming from a poster who is a kneejerk supporter of Russia, the country making life unlivable in Syria.
15
It is TOO simplistic a view to say that "...ultimately it is smarter if we make refugees understand that eventually they must return to Syria to help rebuild that country."
Remember Palestine? The Palestinian refugees who were driven out are still refugees. According to Wikipedia:
"During the 1948 Palestine War, around 85% (720,000 people) of the Palestinian Arab population of what became Israel fled or were expelled from their homes, to the West Bank, the Gaza Strip, and to the countries of Lebanon, Syria and Jordan." This was almost SEVEN decades AGO!!
MOST of them DIED as refugees with dreams of becoming free. "1948 refugees still alive (2012): 30,000 to 50,000 (estimated)".
Making comments about improving conditions in refugee camps may be commendable, but conditions there make them difficult to accomplish.
The statement "The war will end eventually and many refugees prefer to return to Syria than continue to live in a foreign land." is HIGHLY speculative. Once again, the Palestinian issue is STILL not resolved completely.
Of course there is enough blame to be shared by ALL parties. The refugees are simply pawns. Instead of making patronizing and speculative comments, one should do his/her own part and it does NOT have to be as much as what these Canadians have done!
Remember Palestine? The Palestinian refugees who were driven out are still refugees. According to Wikipedia:
"During the 1948 Palestine War, around 85% (720,000 people) of the Palestinian Arab population of what became Israel fled or were expelled from their homes, to the West Bank, the Gaza Strip, and to the countries of Lebanon, Syria and Jordan." This was almost SEVEN decades AGO!!
MOST of them DIED as refugees with dreams of becoming free. "1948 refugees still alive (2012): 30,000 to 50,000 (estimated)".
Making comments about improving conditions in refugee camps may be commendable, but conditions there make them difficult to accomplish.
The statement "The war will end eventually and many refugees prefer to return to Syria than continue to live in a foreign land." is HIGHLY speculative. Once again, the Palestinian issue is STILL not resolved completely.
Of course there is enough blame to be shared by ALL parties. The refugees are simply pawns. Instead of making patronizing and speculative comments, one should do his/her own part and it does NOT have to be as much as what these Canadians have done!
4
There is but one and only one way to "improve conditions in refugee camps." Take them down, end them. Have you seen what a refugee camp looks like? Take the worst slum you can imagine, multiply it by a 1000, add a lot of refuse and sewage, flies and mosquitoes, daily high temperatures, and sand storms.
There is no doubt many refugees, even the luckiest ones, like in this article moved to Canada, want to return home. Thats not a bad thing, nor is it uncommon. But the reality is its more often a fantasy, then a real full-bodied desire. To the day she died my grandmother wanted to return to Ireland, but when pressed on it, she knew being in the US had been for the best. It was a fantasy more then a deep desire, a wish to return to when all things were less complicated...or so she thought.
Longing for the old country is nothing these refugees should be ashamed of. And it shouldn't be used to push the argument that they don't want to be "true" Canadians, or Germans, or Americans. Many of them do, and their children will eventually be "true" natives to their new homelands.
Much of the problems lie in the minds of self-appointed "True" Americans, or Canadians, Germans - who think no one can truly assimilate without giving up every last vestige of their cultures. Americans wrongly believe that past immigrant groups wholly gave up their culture in favor of their new home. Every city had/has its enclaves of immigrant cultures, and from them grew what we now call "True Americans."
There is no doubt many refugees, even the luckiest ones, like in this article moved to Canada, want to return home. Thats not a bad thing, nor is it uncommon. But the reality is its more often a fantasy, then a real full-bodied desire. To the day she died my grandmother wanted to return to Ireland, but when pressed on it, she knew being in the US had been for the best. It was a fantasy more then a deep desire, a wish to return to when all things were less complicated...or so she thought.
Longing for the old country is nothing these refugees should be ashamed of. And it shouldn't be used to push the argument that they don't want to be "true" Canadians, or Germans, or Americans. Many of them do, and their children will eventually be "true" natives to their new homelands.
Much of the problems lie in the minds of self-appointed "True" Americans, or Canadians, Germans - who think no one can truly assimilate without giving up every last vestige of their cultures. Americans wrongly believe that past immigrant groups wholly gave up their culture in favor of their new home. Every city had/has its enclaves of immigrant cultures, and from them grew what we now call "True Americans."
5
Refugee/asylum laws are outdated and will eventually cripple countries that employ them. You see, wars will be over resources because of crowding. Within the next 20-30 years major wars will break out in Africa/Middle East for various reasons, though at their core, they are over increasingly dwindling resources. These wars will send wave upon wave of refugees to Europe and North America, until they are the new Africa or Middle East (Eastern Europe appears poised to be the new center of civilization, as they will be saved by their anti-immigrant sentiment).
Now, do you want to help refugees? Give them birth control. Do not bring them in and spend $50,000 in handouts, teaching and aid to support one family. Spend $50,000 to help 50 families over there.
Why are Westerners so naive?
Now, do you want to help refugees? Give them birth control. Do not bring them in and spend $50,000 in handouts, teaching and aid to support one family. Spend $50,000 to help 50 families over there.
Why are Westerners so naive?
313
A similar approach would be to allow resettlement in the West only for those immigrants who agree to sterilization. No, I'm not joking. The world has more than enough people, and the last thing we should do is create safe havens for failed cultures which have exhausted resources in their home countries and still haven't learned the necessity of birth control.
44
Because we spent a lot of time watching T.V. perhaps, either exhausted after a hard day's work, or in bed now retired?
A well-established emergency children's organization with long-term programs in New York has been in the process of moving to Budapest. It is not idle, but up and running, comprised not only of Westerners, but people around the Globe and hard-duty assignments in Red Zones are not handed out like hot cakes.
A well-established emergency children's organization with long-term programs in New York has been in the process of moving to Budapest. It is not idle, but up and running, comprised not only of Westerners, but people around the Globe and hard-duty assignments in Red Zones are not handed out like hot cakes.
1
One or two children per family, before sterilization, sounds a bit better? The way the planet`s population is heading, it may be the only solution, wether we`re longtime citizens or fresh immigrants. Or should we stick to the age-old formula war, survival of the fittest, as it also has been called?
9
Illiterate adults have a very difficult job, maybe an impossible job, learning to speak a new language, let alone become literate in a new language. Perhaps the refugee selection process needs to take a hard look at screening for literacy, if we desire successful cultural integration. The risk of failure in that task carries the obvious penalty of creating tomorrow's terrorists.
I also believe we should do more to support programs in existing refugee camps that already exist in the Middle East, especially with creating schools.
I have been wondering why the vast numbers living in refugee camps haven't started their own schools, but perhaps the high rate of illiteracy explains that. I can't help but compare this situation with stories from our own abysmal creation of the Japanese American internment camps, where the residents started their own schools, newspapers, sports teams, community gardens, and even Scout troops. But that was a highly literate and successful population, by comparison.
I also believe we should do more to support programs in existing refugee camps that already exist in the Middle East, especially with creating schools.
I have been wondering why the vast numbers living in refugee camps haven't started their own schools, but perhaps the high rate of illiteracy explains that. I can't help but compare this situation with stories from our own abysmal creation of the Japanese American internment camps, where the residents started their own schools, newspapers, sports teams, community gardens, and even Scout troops. But that was a highly literate and successful population, by comparison.
169
The greatest help West can render is to stop taking sides in Middle Eastern wars. It's hypocritical to first destroy their countries and then help 'rescue' a select few of their citizens.
81
Excellent point, Ms. Ramnarayan! I have thought about that myself. However sad this story was, you raise a valid point.
1
You are perhaps confusing Iraq with Syria. The Syrian war is one of their own making with a portion of the country fighting for more freedom from Assad, a dictatorial head of state not until Saddam Hussein. Add in ISIS on one hand and Russia acting to enhance its influence on the other and you have a problem not likely to be resolved for another 30 years. The refugees are simply those caught in the cross fire.
3
Canada is a very large country, full of such generous people.
They should consider taking in as many Syrians as possible.
Just like Germany did. What's another million in Canada? That's the amount the US takes in annually legally. We've accepted more immigrants into the US over the past 25-30 years than the entire population Canada.
They should consider taking in as many Syrians as possible.
Just like Germany did. What's another million in Canada? That's the amount the US takes in annually legally. We've accepted more immigrants into the US over the past 25-30 years than the entire population Canada.
26
"Canada is a very large country, full of such generous people.
They should consider taking in as many Syrians as possible."
US is an equally LARGE country and keep in mind that MOST of northern Canada is not quite as habitable as MOST of US. Also like to think that there are proportionately just as many generous people people in US as in Canada.
"We've accepted more immigrants into the US over the past 25-30 years than the entire population Canada."
Check again. Given the size of Canada - 35 Million against 320 million in US - will be accepting "more than 300,000 immigrants in 2016" according to Globe and Mail of Toronto.
That's like US accepting 2.75 MILLIONS of immigrants in 2016!!
According to Center for Immigration Studies (cis.org)
"Between 2000 and 2014, 18.7 million new immigrants (legal and illegal) settled in the United States."
That means that Canada is accepting about TWICE as many as immigrants, given its size. If ONLY legal immigrants are considered - and in Canada almost ALL are legal immigrants - the disparity will be FAR higher!!
This kind of anti-immigrant reaction is very typical. People jump to conclusions based on uninformed mindset and trash real data - done all too often in the recent election fever.
They should consider taking in as many Syrians as possible."
US is an equally LARGE country and keep in mind that MOST of northern Canada is not quite as habitable as MOST of US. Also like to think that there are proportionately just as many generous people people in US as in Canada.
"We've accepted more immigrants into the US over the past 25-30 years than the entire population Canada."
Check again. Given the size of Canada - 35 Million against 320 million in US - will be accepting "more than 300,000 immigrants in 2016" according to Globe and Mail of Toronto.
That's like US accepting 2.75 MILLIONS of immigrants in 2016!!
According to Center for Immigration Studies (cis.org)
"Between 2000 and 2014, 18.7 million new immigrants (legal and illegal) settled in the United States."
That means that Canada is accepting about TWICE as many as immigrants, given its size. If ONLY legal immigrants are considered - and in Canada almost ALL are legal immigrants - the disparity will be FAR higher!!
This kind of anti-immigrant reaction is very typical. People jump to conclusions based on uninformed mindset and trash real data - done all too often in the recent election fever.
4
Yes, we Americans have taken in a lot of immigrants. But that is not due to largesse on our part. We have sought out highly trained doctors, engineers, professors and such so that we don't have to make similar investments in our own population.
Canada has taken in refugees - often illiterate and with serious medical and psychological needs. Big difference.
Canada has taken in refugees - often illiterate and with serious medical and psychological needs. Big difference.
4
This is not accurate. The US admits the uneducated, those who do not speak english and those who are ill unlike most of the other english speaking countries.
Our refugee policies are humane. We really cannot be criticized for our refugee policies.
We should also take more highly educated immigrants but that is a different issue.
Our refugee policies are humane. We really cannot be criticized for our refugee policies.
We should also take more highly educated immigrants but that is a different issue.
6
Cellphones and Skype make it faster and more visual for relatives to contact emmigrants. But this is nothing new. My family used to get begging letters regularly from relatives, even distant ones, who were still in the old country. My grandfather, who was struggling to make a go of it on a farm with his 5 kids and a sick wife, complained that the relatives all thought that America really had streets paved with gold. At some point, every migrant has to jump the mental hurdle - are you still a part of your old country ways, or are you now joining the new world? It can be harder for the women who don't work outside the home, don't learn the new language, and don't have anything but memories to cherish.
93
This article touches on so much that is true about refugees and their struggles to make it in the Western World. We read and hear that many of these refugees are well educated and trained coming from their native lands, but what are the actual numbers? Are most refugees illiterate as the young parents in this family? If so, the best they will often be able to do is to get jobs that require very little education and those jobs are low paying. As a mentor to a refugee family myself and a tutor to elderly refugees who are illiterate in their native tongues, I know how difficult the road is for both refugees and mentors as illustrated in this article. Yet, I have seen the children of refugees prosper in school and in life. At least in our area, Burundian refugees begin to pool their resources and with the help of various agencies, such as Catholic Social Services, and private individuals they acquire jobs (janitorial, food service, etc) and some even purchase their own homes. Still, one wonders what would be better, given the high cost to these individuals themselves, to taxpayers, to mentors, helping them in a new country or helping them in their countries of origin?
48
Sara,
You may want to check the movie review in the Times 'A Stray', produced by an African director, it follows the footsteps and options of a young Somali in Minneapolis, his search for a job, for a home and a 'God' in the company of a small dog.
You may want to check the movie review in the Times 'A Stray', produced by an African director, it follows the footsteps and options of a young Somali in Minneapolis, his search for a job, for a home and a 'God' in the company of a small dog.
1
The power of familial duty in the Arab world is little understood in the West. The authors have captured the nature of this force in all its complexities.
151
It most certainly does not apply to certain Arab nations who take in not one person.
37
Power of familial duty is alive and well in most every society. Only in US, where we now have at least 3 generations of ultra-mobile people that these familial bonds seem quaint.
7
"Familial duty" is not confined to just the Middle East. It also occurs in other cultures. Being a refugee myself, albeit almost 4 decades ago, I can tell you that families fleeing the Vietnam War who settled in the US faced the same issues. And my friends who are Mexican, Cuban, Russian, etc. have also faced similar dilemmas. I would also bet this happened in the early 20th century among groups like the Italian or Irish but as the author states in the article, we did not have instant communication with mobile phones back then.
2
What we need is a Marshall Plan for the Middle East. It's not tenable to bring every Syrian refugee to Canada and Germany and the USA. The problem is not that they are physically unsafe living in refugee camps, it is that they have no hope and live in miserable conditions. What we can do is invest in schools, jobs, clean water, better housing, infrastructure, etc. in Lebanon and Jordan and Turkey. Let's focus on helping our allies with the millions they have taken in, and boost those countries too.
254
The Marshall Plan called for and required cooperation between the participating states. The individual nations wanted to get even and maybe a little ahead. that wasn't allowed. Western Europe also had peace and the Soviet alternative if they failed.
The Middle East has ethnic an religious conflicts reminiscent of the Middle Ages in Western Europe. The Middle East has surplus resources, oil money, to begin long term development. The increased Russian presence could provide incentive to work together; certainly now what Russia intends.
The Middle East has ethnic an religious conflicts reminiscent of the Middle Ages in Western Europe. The Middle East has surplus resources, oil money, to begin long term development. The increased Russian presence could provide incentive to work together; certainly now what Russia intends.
16
So you have no idea who destabilized this region, and what those people actually want from the area? Typical "exceptional" american.
7
Destabilized starting with the collapse of the Ottoman Empire following WW1. Followed by the British and French creating countries with the wrong borders. They've had 98 years to get over it. Send them humanitarian aid of course. But we don't need a torrent of potentially dangerous immigrants in the US. What will are Canadian neighbors due when a few of their refugees start setting off bombs in their nice clean cities? Knowing Canada probably nothing.
16