I'm always amazed at the leftist ire over settlements when it comes to the Israeli Palestinian peace process. They use the process of omission in telling an incomplete narrative. Why is it rarely, if ever, mentioned that more Jews were displaced from, and persecuted in, Arab countries than any so-called Palestinians displaced from Israel, including the disputed territories? Why does the world not care about essentially the same issue in reverse? Why do we look at only a narrow view of history instead of exploring the entire Arab Israeli conflict, as it relates to the role of Arabs in the SS during WW2? It's also quite notable that those who seek to blame Israel for a lack of movement in the peace process routinely overlook who Israel finds as negotiating partners. Hamas is essentially the same ilk as Al Qaeda and ISIS. While Obama and those who push pacifism and appeasement may not want to acknowledge the real, significant, and growing threat of radical Islam, Israel doesn't have the luxury with so many hostile neighbors. Finally, there are over 2 million Arab Muslims living in greater Israel today. Even if some disputed territories became part of a future Palestinian state, the notion that such a state should be completely Jew/Israeli free is preposterous and racist. The very same people who have played a role in cleansing the entire Middle East, besides Israel, of virtually all religious minorities should not get to dictate all the terms of a final, just deal.
5
Achievements of Bibi
Look at this Netanyahu government's achievement. Bad relations with the US. Bad relations with Turkey. Bad relations with Europe. Rise of anti-Semitism after Gaza. Bad relations with the Palestinians. And finally, what peace process?
Look at this Netanyahu government's achievement. Bad relations with the US. Bad relations with Turkey. Bad relations with Europe. Rise of anti-Semitism after Gaza. Bad relations with the Palestinians. And finally, what peace process?
4
I am appalled by the irresponsibility of the authors who wrote this article! Fancy graphics of settlement growth with the failure to speak with Palestinians or mention how this illegal Israeli expansion impacts Palestinian daily life is outright negligent. I am currently residing just outside of Bethlehem, and I often wonder what the hillside which is now comprised of Har Homa's sprawl, seen massive and clear from my kitchen window, once looked like. In my three months living here, I have heard countless accounts of the major problems caused by settlers: Palestinian children harassed on their way to school, olive trees uprooted almost daily, homes destroyed to build settler-only roads or for "wall" expansion, building of new checkpoints infringe even more upon Palestinian ability to travel, toxic and solid waste disposal by settlements causing increased health concerns, etc.
A university professor last week told me, "It's like they want to erase our memories." She now rarely leaves Bethlehem (which is surrounded by settlements) because she is too saddened by the changing landscape.
An ex-Israeli soldier who led a tour of the south Hebron hills stated clearly to the group that the goal here is to drive Palestinians off of their land, into the cities or preferably abroad.
As US tax payers, each and every one of us is in some way supporting Israel's illegal activity, so it is our responsibility to take action and stand up against what is clearly an apartheid state.
A university professor last week told me, "It's like they want to erase our memories." She now rarely leaves Bethlehem (which is surrounded by settlements) because she is too saddened by the changing landscape.
An ex-Israeli soldier who led a tour of the south Hebron hills stated clearly to the group that the goal here is to drive Palestinians off of their land, into the cities or preferably abroad.
As US tax payers, each and every one of us is in some way supporting Israel's illegal activity, so it is our responsibility to take action and stand up against what is clearly an apartheid state.
7
On May 23, 1991, in testimony before House Foreign Affairs subcommittee on foreign operations, Secretary of State James Baker, III said this of Israeli "settlements":
"I don't think that there is any bigger obstacle to peace than the settlement activity that continues not only unabated but at an enhanced pace."
That seems topical. You know, the kind of comment you would want to approve for on an article about Israeli settlements.
"I don't think that there is any bigger obstacle to peace than the settlement activity that continues not only unabated but at an enhanced pace."
That seems topical. You know, the kind of comment you would want to approve for on an article about Israeli settlements.
5
I have been to Modi'in- It mimicks all the bad characteristics of a bourgeoise American community (including American street names). However, what is really is one monumental wall between Israel and the West Bank.
We visited Jordan in year 2000. At the conclusion of this visit, there was the opportunity to cross into the Occupied Territories near the old Allenby Bridge, and to enter Jerusalem. Our guide was a Palestinian, a resident of East Jerusalem. He told us his whole family had recently been evicted from their house, and the house taken over by settlers. As we walked about Jerusalem, even on the Via Dolorosa, armed settlers were visible everywhere, Uzis and assault rifles slung over their shoulders. They are allowed to openly carry weapons most anywhere in the country, it seems.
Maybe not in Israeli government centers.
Our Palestinian guide was sad but beyond rage at the settlers' eviction of his family from their decades old East Jerusalem home. It is something that one has to accept in Jerusalem, like the weather. He cheerfully led us up to see the Dome of the Rock and the al-Aqsa Mosque on the Haram al-Sharif. The Muslim authorities had no difficulties in allowing us Christian visitors to touch the Rock of Mohammed inside the Dome of the Rock, where Muslim tradition states the Prophet ascended to heaven on his white charger.
Now, as alluded to by this NYT story, we have the Israelis selling nice flats for $650,000 with a nice view of Bethlehem, down to the south but definitely beneath the hilltop fastnesses of the Israelis, surrounded and masked by the massive Israeli Occupation Separation Wall.
Such is the fate of the city of Christ's Passion.
Maybe not in Israeli government centers.
Our Palestinian guide was sad but beyond rage at the settlers' eviction of his family from their decades old East Jerusalem home. It is something that one has to accept in Jerusalem, like the weather. He cheerfully led us up to see the Dome of the Rock and the al-Aqsa Mosque on the Haram al-Sharif. The Muslim authorities had no difficulties in allowing us Christian visitors to touch the Rock of Mohammed inside the Dome of the Rock, where Muslim tradition states the Prophet ascended to heaven on his white charger.
Now, as alluded to by this NYT story, we have the Israelis selling nice flats for $650,000 with a nice view of Bethlehem, down to the south but definitely beneath the hilltop fastnesses of the Israelis, surrounded and masked by the massive Israeli Occupation Separation Wall.
Such is the fate of the city of Christ's Passion.
3
It is as though the U.S. has built every settlement brick by brick for the Israelis.
We have lost our moral compass. WE are the real villains in this story.
We have lost our moral compass. WE are the real villains in this story.
8
Greed makes Israel go blind!
The Americans are the biggest losers, protecting Israelis crimes and misdeeds, forking over billions in tax payers’ dollars and this is how the Israelis continue to demand more and continue to embarrassed them. Palestinians resistance fighters are called terrorists, Israeli extremists are called settlers, which are known also as terrorists
The Americans are the biggest losers, protecting Israelis crimes and misdeeds, forking over billions in tax payers’ dollars and this is how the Israelis continue to demand more and continue to embarrassed them. Palestinians resistance fighters are called terrorists, Israeli extremists are called settlers, which are known also as terrorists
7
What the Israelis are doing today is what was done in our racist past to Native Americans, Aborigines, and Black Africans. As citizens of the worlds most diverse country which has ostensibly turned its back on such a shameful past, we must all reflect that our political and economic establishment has used our tax dollars to avidly support such crimes by Zionists against the native Palestinians till this very day. How much have we really changed as a country? How much of this is possible because we failed to collect reparations for past crimes?
6
The basic idea of the article was that the settlements are growing, that where it once was only 3 hilltops is now 6 hilltops. Although the article didn't explain what the big difference is, the implication and probably the idea behind the whole artilce was, that that the growth of the settlements is eating up land the Palestinians need for their state.
However if this was the point of the article, then the most important map in regard to this issue was missing. That is it should have shown a scale map of the west bank and then shown how much of that land is being taken up by the additional growth of the settlements.
Because if this map was included, it would have clearly shown that the additional land taken up by settlement growth is not more than 1 or 2 percent of the total land in the west bank that is there for the Palestinians.
The west bank is not a land given to sprawl, it is made of of old cities, towns and villages and any growth at all is on the immediate outskirts. The rest of the land is completely empty.
So in reality taking an additional 1- 2% of the empty land, will make no difference in the land that the Palestinians will use or need for their future state. Its nothing more than land that would have remained empty that is being used for building on.
So the idea, ingrained on the minds of half the world, that this relatively tiny amount of land makes any difference in the land the Palestinians will need or use in their future state is based on sheer ignorance.
However if this was the point of the article, then the most important map in regard to this issue was missing. That is it should have shown a scale map of the west bank and then shown how much of that land is being taken up by the additional growth of the settlements.
Because if this map was included, it would have clearly shown that the additional land taken up by settlement growth is not more than 1 or 2 percent of the total land in the west bank that is there for the Palestinians.
The west bank is not a land given to sprawl, it is made of of old cities, towns and villages and any growth at all is on the immediate outskirts. The rest of the land is completely empty.
So in reality taking an additional 1- 2% of the empty land, will make no difference in the land that the Palestinians will use or need for their future state. Its nothing more than land that would have remained empty that is being used for building on.
So the idea, ingrained on the minds of half the world, that this relatively tiny amount of land makes any difference in the land the Palestinians will need or use in their future state is based on sheer ignorance.
5
Now Michael, since you have your hands on all the facts, please enlighten us on:
a) the "sharing" of scarce water
b) the acreage of olive trees destroyed
c) the milage of the new road networks and how much is accessible to locals
d) the acreage enclosed by the "security" wall
e) and any other statistics that relate to the lives of the local Palestinians
a) the "sharing" of scarce water
b) the acreage of olive trees destroyed
c) the milage of the new road networks and how much is accessible to locals
d) the acreage enclosed by the "security" wall
e) and any other statistics that relate to the lives of the local Palestinians
5
Excellent reader-friendly package that offers deeper understanding and visual clarity to a volatile and maddeningly complex set of circumstances. Highest compliments to everyone involved at The Times. The digital presentation, in particular, is not only outstanding, but better than what can be found anywhere else in the mainstream media.
4
"Settlements"? We are all grown-ups here - no need for euphemisms. The grown-up word is "colonization". Colonization as official state policy. And what makes colonization possible is the ethnic cleansing of the indigenous population that precedes it (through land confiscation, home demolitions, chopping down of olive trees, poisoning of cattle, settler violence and intimidation, etc etc). And this is what the "civilized" West, lead by the US (with its professed values of human rights, freedom, democracy, justice and equality) has been supporting for the past 50 years. Boggles the mind.
10
It sure does boggle the mind, but slowly but surely the scam is being exposed. The American public has been deprived of factual information and bombarded with misinformation/propaganda. The American government has been highjacked by Israeli extremist groups.
6
I just wish we could all admit the obvious here: The intention of Israel is to eventually take over the entire West Bank and turn it into 2 new states. They have already named them: Judea and Samara. This will at some point require expelling the 2 million Palestinians who have lived there for 1000s of years, if Israel is to remain a Jewish State.
And of course, the Palestinians still refuse to acknowledge Israels right to exist, and harbor their own desire to expel the Jews from what is now Israel.
And I do not care what some say about the bible saying that all that land belongs to the Jews, or whoever. Since when did God become a real estate agent?
Frankly, I am sick of both sides.
And of course, the Palestinians still refuse to acknowledge Israels right to exist, and harbor their own desire to expel the Jews from what is now Israel.
And I do not care what some say about the bible saying that all that land belongs to the Jews, or whoever. Since when did God become a real estate agent?
Frankly, I am sick of both sides.
1
Netanyahu's government has taken the worst page out of the late Cardinal Spellman's handbook. Grow the population. Grow the base.
3
The big question may become whether or not the government of Israel will accept a ruling by the World Court. Since I have never heard any official statement from the Israeli government regarding international law or the World Court, it seems this is going to be Israel's acid test in front of the world community.
4
In 1980, Prof. Ian Lustick was on leave from his university at the State Department.
His responsibility was analyzing Israeli settlement and land expropriation policies in the West Bank.
In 2013, he wrote in the NYT that right away it was clear to him that "Prime Minister Menachem Begin’s government was systematically using tangled talks over how to conduct negotiations as camouflage for de facto annexation of the West Bank..."
He says that "to protect the peace process, the United States strictly limited its public criticism of Israeli government policies, making Washington an enabler for the very processes of de facto annexation that were destroying prospects for the full autonomy and realization of the legitimate rights of the Palestinian people that were the official purpose of the negotiations."
"One day I was summoned to the office of a high-ranking diplomat, who was then one of the State Department’s most powerful advocates for the negotiations. He was a man I had always respected and admired. 'Are you,' he asked me, 'personally so sure of your analysis that you are willing to destroy the only available chance for peace between Israelis and Palestinians?' His question gave me pause, but only briefly. 'Yes, sir,' I answered, 'I am.'"
In 2013, he wrote "I still am."
Bravo, Ian Lustick. But shame on the State Dept. for their fecklessness in letting things reach this point.
His responsibility was analyzing Israeli settlement and land expropriation policies in the West Bank.
In 2013, he wrote in the NYT that right away it was clear to him that "Prime Minister Menachem Begin’s government was systematically using tangled talks over how to conduct negotiations as camouflage for de facto annexation of the West Bank..."
He says that "to protect the peace process, the United States strictly limited its public criticism of Israeli government policies, making Washington an enabler for the very processes of de facto annexation that were destroying prospects for the full autonomy and realization of the legitimate rights of the Palestinian people that were the official purpose of the negotiations."
"One day I was summoned to the office of a high-ranking diplomat, who was then one of the State Department’s most powerful advocates for the negotiations. He was a man I had always respected and admired. 'Are you,' he asked me, 'personally so sure of your analysis that you are willing to destroy the only available chance for peace between Israelis and Palestinians?' His question gave me pause, but only briefly. 'Yes, sir,' I answered, 'I am.'"
In 2013, he wrote "I still am."
Bravo, Ian Lustick. But shame on the State Dept. for their fecklessness in letting things reach this point.
5
Americans are letting Israel/AIPAC drag their country thru the mud.
11
The West Bank (as you can see from the image) is beautiful and it's entirely understandable that Israelis love the land and want to live there. But without equality, freedom and democracy, even the most beautiful and holy landscape in the world is nothing but a prison. The Galut was a lesson for the Jewish people -- the same lesson we were supposed to learn from Mitzrayim, from Egypt -- remember that you were a stranger. Be kind to the powerless. Why were we given this lesson? Do we need it here in America, where the government protects everyone? Did we need it in Czarist Russia where we had no power? We were given this lesson for the future. So that when the day came that we *did* have power, we would remember that we were slaves in Egypt, we were dhimmis in Muslim lands, we victims of the Crusades, cursed by the Orthodox and Catholic churches, condemned by the Fascists and the Communists alike. Why were we given this lesson? So that we could return and behave exactly like those who once oppressed us? We cannot buy our own freedom at the expense of another. The land is not Israeli or Palestinian. This land is G-ds, according to most of the people (Jewish, Christian, Muslim, and Druze) who live there. We need to commit to peace and show that while an army is good, it is not an end in itself.
2
Growing a new crop of voters for Likud. It's one shameful way to expand a political party & build a constituency.
5
This is a very helpful article (w/ media) but it left out at least one important detail. These settlements are not for Israelis, which is a country of many faith traditions, these settlements are only for Jews. Only Jews can take advantage of these beautiful modern homes and schools and playgrounds. Non-Jews need not apply.
13
Among foreign leaders, nobody has been invited to address Congress more often than Netanyahu. He now stands equal at the top of the table along with Winston Churchill. Behind Netanyahu trail Nelson Mandela and Yitzhak Rabin. That’s a pretty devastating commentary on the state of contemporary American political culture and the very notion of leadership.
8
The settlements are a transparent land grab that fools no one. Netanyahu will stall on peace talks until there is no land left for a Palestinian state, at which point the issue will become moot. It's outrageous, and the world is letting him get away with it. All US foreign aid to Israel should cease until Israel stops building illegal settlements and gets out of the West Bank. They can thumb their noses at us all they want, but we shouldn't be paying them to do it.
12
Giving legal cover doesn't change the fact that West bank is occupied land and annexation as well as settlement activity is illegal under all international law. US is effectively bankrolling this. China and Russia look at US's tacit backing of Israeli behavior and are also aggressively grabbing land and building in Ukraine and in South China sea. US national interest is not the same as Israel's.
9
Netanyahu speaks of Iran's "voracious appetite for aggression." Can his persistence in building more and more settlements on Palestinian land be described as passive aggression? As he provokes the Arab world, he does so by keeping his fingers crossed that the US will back him up.
Netanyahu and his extreme right wing Likud party ignore resolutions concerning his illegal land grab policies in West Bank settlements and the veritable strangulation, siege, and starvation of Gaza, shirking world opinion. He doggedly persists in the execution of these policies, emboldened by intractable US support, even though he is clearly stoking the fires of bitter entrenched hatred amongst the palestinians and arabs at large spanning generations. Israel is effectively a hegemonistic colonizer and a brutal occupation force having no right to exist, yet incredibly insisting on being formerly recognized as such. This dogged treachery and arrogance is the driving force behind the Hamas missile attacks and Iran´s push for nuclear weapons, no question.
Netanyahu and his extreme right wing Likud party ignore resolutions concerning his illegal land grab policies in West Bank settlements and the veritable strangulation, siege, and starvation of Gaza, shirking world opinion. He doggedly persists in the execution of these policies, emboldened by intractable US support, even though he is clearly stoking the fires of bitter entrenched hatred amongst the palestinians and arabs at large spanning generations. Israel is effectively a hegemonistic colonizer and a brutal occupation force having no right to exist, yet incredibly insisting on being formerly recognized as such. This dogged treachery and arrogance is the driving force behind the Hamas missile attacks and Iran´s push for nuclear weapons, no question.
10
@John Townsend --
If Israel is "effectively a hegemonistic colonizer and a brutal occupation force," then how would you describe the United States and its more recent adventures in the Middle East? If that shoe fits, then does the US, also, have "no right to exist"?
(I'm deliberately omitting here a recitation of the entire history of our republic from its beginnings, when, as you must surely know, it was known as "the American colonies", and its inhabitants as "the colonists")
Once you announce that Israel has no right to exist, you are quoting the charters of Hamas and other terror organizations, not to mention the leadership of many Middle Eastern Muslim majority states.
Whatever Netanyahu and other Israeli leaders may say and do, and however we in this country should respond, criticize, or otherwise react to those words and deeds, how does someone like you come to the conclusion that Israel or any other sovereign nation has no right to exist?
If Israel is "effectively a hegemonistic colonizer and a brutal occupation force," then how would you describe the United States and its more recent adventures in the Middle East? If that shoe fits, then does the US, also, have "no right to exist"?
(I'm deliberately omitting here a recitation of the entire history of our republic from its beginnings, when, as you must surely know, it was known as "the American colonies", and its inhabitants as "the colonists")
Once you announce that Israel has no right to exist, you are quoting the charters of Hamas and other terror organizations, not to mention the leadership of many Middle Eastern Muslim majority states.
Whatever Netanyahu and other Israeli leaders may say and do, and however we in this country should respond, criticize, or otherwise react to those words and deeds, how does someone like you come to the conclusion that Israel or any other sovereign nation has no right to exist?
5
The pictures remind me of medieval times; villages of refuge on hilltops walled off from the realities below. They were susceptible to siege, as without water and food supplies they could not survive. Today they are picturesque tourist sites, but largely non-functional communities.
Is this Israel's medieval phase?
Is this Israel's medieval phase?
3
In time they will take their dusty place along the abandoned Crusader castles scattered through the Levant.
Israel is beginning to appear to be a warmongering country. Look at the large areas of land Israel claimed as "spoils of war" in Lebanon. Now, it is desperate for a war in Iran for the same purpose...to expand Israel's territory to accommodate its uncontrolled population growth.
Whose fault is that? Any other country of the world that experiences such population growth doesn't instigate war as a way to attached land as Israel has been doing for nearly 2 decades now. Look at the map of Israel today and the land mass back in 1947. Quite larger.
Now, imagine if the US's population growth was growing like Israel's. Should the US start a war with Canada and Mexico to annex land that doesn't belong to us?
The way to objectively view any of the issues US taxpayers fund in Israel is simple. Replace Israel and its enemy neighbors with the US and Canada.
Israel is its own worst enemy. It HAS to instigate war or it won't grow in land size. Meanwhile, US taxpayers are on the hook to support a warmongering 51st US state called Israel so that our newest Congressman Netanyahu can help the worst right wing element in US society today push its agenda.
Whose fault is that? Any other country of the world that experiences such population growth doesn't instigate war as a way to attached land as Israel has been doing for nearly 2 decades now. Look at the map of Israel today and the land mass back in 1947. Quite larger.
Now, imagine if the US's population growth was growing like Israel's. Should the US start a war with Canada and Mexico to annex land that doesn't belong to us?
The way to objectively view any of the issues US taxpayers fund in Israel is simple. Replace Israel and its enemy neighbors with the US and Canada.
Israel is its own worst enemy. It HAS to instigate war or it won't grow in land size. Meanwhile, US taxpayers are on the hook to support a warmongering 51st US state called Israel so that our newest Congressman Netanyahu can help the worst right wing element in US society today push its agenda.
8
Beautiful pictures of wonderful communities. These lands belong to the Jewish people. The straw-man argument that "settlements" are an obstacle to peace is absurd. Israel destroyed and fully evacuated "settlements" in Gaza and this led to what? War and death courtesy of the Arabs. The towns, villages and cities in Judea and Samaria are proof that the "nation of Israel lives" and builds for life. Anyone with eyes and half a brain who looks at a map of the Middle East can see that Arabs have plenty of lebensraum. Tiny Israel is the rightful owner of these disputed lands.
5
It may appear beautiful to you, but to the majority of people on this planet it appears disgusting. It is a vivid representation of injustice and an affront to human values we hold dear.
9
@Greg Lyon France
I don't know about the majority of people on this planet, but I doubt they find this scene "disgusting". What I find disgusting is the squalor of so-called "refugee camps" for Palestinian Arabs whom no Muslim country would repatriate, while every Jew who was expatriated or who fled from a Muslim country in 1948 found a home in Israel.
As the descendant of French Jews who were gleefully sent to Drancy, and thence to Auschwitz by their "authentically French" neighbors (the survivors found homes in the United States and Israel), I don't have much patience with your disgust or your skewed sense of "injustice" or your being "affronted" by "human values we hold dear" from your perch in Lyon.
I suggest you clean your own house of racism and anti-semitism before you move on to repair injustices elsewhere.
I don't know about the majority of people on this planet, but I doubt they find this scene "disgusting". What I find disgusting is the squalor of so-called "refugee camps" for Palestinian Arabs whom no Muslim country would repatriate, while every Jew who was expatriated or who fled from a Muslim country in 1948 found a home in Israel.
As the descendant of French Jews who were gleefully sent to Drancy, and thence to Auschwitz by their "authentically French" neighbors (the survivors found homes in the United States and Israel), I don't have much patience with your disgust or your skewed sense of "injustice" or your being "affronted" by "human values we hold dear" from your perch in Lyon.
I suggest you clean your own house of racism and anti-semitism before you move on to repair injustices elsewhere.
6
At a time when it seems the rest of the Middle East is torn apart by Islamic extremists, it's good to see Israel holding its ground!
4
It is time for Obama and Kerry to begin a serious discussion of a bi-national state, equal rights for all.
4
@Greig Olivier --
I might be inclined at least to discuss your idea dissolving the sovereign state of Israel for a bi-national state, equal rights for all, if there was a chance that any of the nearly 50 Muslim majority countries on the planet, many of which are governed by sharia law and do not tolerate religious minorities or grant them equal rights of citizenship (not to mention their barbaric treatment of women) were included in the serious discussion of "equal rights for all".
I might be inclined to listen to this little rant if it were not for the fact that anti-semitism is alive and well and once again rising to the surface all over Europe. I don't think we'll have another Holocaust, but if it were to come to that, then you'd only have to create Israel all over again, non?
I might be inclined at least to discuss your idea dissolving the sovereign state of Israel for a bi-national state, equal rights for all, if there was a chance that any of the nearly 50 Muslim majority countries on the planet, many of which are governed by sharia law and do not tolerate religious minorities or grant them equal rights of citizenship (not to mention their barbaric treatment of women) were included in the serious discussion of "equal rights for all".
I might be inclined to listen to this little rant if it were not for the fact that anti-semitism is alive and well and once again rising to the surface all over Europe. I don't think we'll have another Holocaust, but if it were to come to that, then you'd only have to create Israel all over again, non?
6
Clairette Rose:
What you see as anti-semitism is actually a reaction to Israel's brutal actions, and you should be smart enough to recognize that. Why are you bringing in other Arab states' disregard for human rights? That's the typical Israeli and Jewish response, THEY are worse than we are. Since when do you use Arab behavior as a yardstick to judge Israel's behavior? I thought Israel was a reflection of American values - or that's what she claims to be. America doesn't compare its values to that of tyrannical, human rights deniers countries, so why should Israel?
What you see as anti-semitism is actually a reaction to Israel's brutal actions, and you should be smart enough to recognize that. Why are you bringing in other Arab states' disregard for human rights? That's the typical Israeli and Jewish response, THEY are worse than we are. Since when do you use Arab behavior as a yardstick to judge Israel's behavior? I thought Israel was a reflection of American values - or that's what she claims to be. America doesn't compare its values to that of tyrannical, human rights deniers countries, so why should Israel?
5
What beautiful pictures of flourishing Jewish villages and towns and cities in the heart of the land of Israel. Especially enjoyed the time-lapse views of the growth of these wonderful communities. Thanks NY Times.
4
Netanyahu leads Israel with a steady hand into kaos.When will ordinary Israelis understand that Netanyahu not tries to solve problems but creates new ones whenever he opens his mouth.The man has a destructiv nature.
3
Mr. Netanyahu has always suffered the classic flaw of the arrogant man... he's always right. he is not now, nor has he ever been, the Isreali leader who will bring peace to his country. The history of his tenure has proven this contention.
3
What a terrible and sad commentary for peace and the peace process. Settlements built on deception and dishonesty. But for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction and the cycle of violence will continue. The complicity of the US in this charade angers the world. Israel is our ally but it is not our friend. And all of this will have a very bad end.
4
Yes, unless we can shake free of Israel, it will materially and spiritually bring about the end of the American Empire, both external and internal. Maybe not such a bad ending after all.
1
Netanyahu would be worth a more flexible policy, he could at least try to resolve the conflict with the Arab countries in a peaceful way, but instead of this Netanyahu has directed his policy so, that Israel has continued to take an aggressive actions against its neighbors and try to expose itself as a victim.
2
From David Harris-Gershon in Tikkun Daily today:
Israel’s Prime Minister, Binyamin Netanyahu, released a statement this week via Likud, his political party, making official what has been implied many times over: that he rejects the idea of two, self-determining states as the path toward peace between Israelis and Palestinians.
The statement made clear that Netanyahu now disavows a speech he delivered at Bar Ilan University in 2009 as “no longer relevant.” The speech’s topic? The path towards creating a Palestinian state alongside Israel. To hammer home Netanyahu’s rejection of Palestinian statehood, the statement threw in the following, just in case its intention wasn’t clear:
“Netanyahu’s entire political biography is a fight against the creation of a Palestinian state.”
Truer words have never been spoken.
Netanyahu’s camp and Likud quickly backtracked on the statement before circling back to confirm its original intention, making official what Netanyahu has implied many times: that he intends for the occupation to continue forever.
Israel’s Prime Minister, Binyamin Netanyahu, released a statement this week via Likud, his political party, making official what has been implied many times over: that he rejects the idea of two, self-determining states as the path toward peace between Israelis and Palestinians.
The statement made clear that Netanyahu now disavows a speech he delivered at Bar Ilan University in 2009 as “no longer relevant.” The speech’s topic? The path towards creating a Palestinian state alongside Israel. To hammer home Netanyahu’s rejection of Palestinian statehood, the statement threw in the following, just in case its intention wasn’t clear:
“Netanyahu’s entire political biography is a fight against the creation of a Palestinian state.”
Truer words have never been spoken.
Netanyahu’s camp and Likud quickly backtracked on the statement before circling back to confirm its original intention, making official what Netanyahu has implied many times: that he intends for the occupation to continue forever.
3
I, for one, was never fooled by that speech by Netanyanu. It was obviously made to appease the US, who seemed satisfied with this performance, for that's what is was. To any keen observer it was clear Netanyahu was speaking out of one side of his mouth, and meant not one word of what he said.
At long last, the truth has come out: he never had any intention to allow a Palestinian state to emerge, this should have been obvious to anyone, and I hold the US responsible for allowing him to carry on this charade for so long.
At long last, the truth has come out: he never had any intention to allow a Palestinian state to emerge, this should have been obvious to anyone, and I hold the US responsible for allowing him to carry on this charade for so long.
2
Israel has retreated from lands it was in possession of and were thriving, three times in its 70 year history. Not because the land was lost in conflict, but rather in the hope it would lead to peace with its neighbors. This brought about only greater conflict and now, world condemnation. What other nation has given up land voluntarily? If a true peace would be forthcoming, there is no doubt that further land concessions would be made by Isreal, but is peace with an Arab entity even a possibility as long as their manifesto is the destruction of Israel?
6
Israel can do whatever it wants. I am a US tax payer and I don't see any reason why it is in American national interest to provide financial aid, military aid and security guarantee and tolerate an insignificant and instrangient "ally" (?) thumb its nose at its greatest benefactor. Let Israel stand on its own, face the heat from the world. When US doesn't have its back, US stops using its veto in UN for Israel, it will have to make some hard choices and make peace. Either way, it will have to spend more on military and it will dry up funds for settlements. Israelis are free to choose the terms of peace - but on on our nickel.
2
The West Bank area in dispute is smaller than lands that change hands regularly in Iraq and Syria. The number of people involved in the dispute are far fewer than Syrian refugees. The strategic value of the land is not great from a military standpoint. The violence that the conflict has engendered falls far shy of what is happening in nearby countries. The folks obsessed by the settlements are like neighbors endlessly fighting over property lines. They trace title back a century or more but, in the end, their fight is much less important than they seem to think. That's what you settlement fanatics seem like to most of the rest of us. You must enjoy the battle because whoever wins today, in the unstable Middle East, could lose tomorrow.
4
re " That's what you settlement fanatics seem like to most of the rest of us."
Speak for yourself. I for one am no settlement fanatic, but I know an illegal land grab when I see it.
Speak for yourself. I for one am no settlement fanatic, but I know an illegal land grab when I see it.
3
@John Townsend --
"I know an illegal land grab when I see it"
And so, would you have been there to protect Israel if, in 1948 or 1967 or 1973 Arab forces had succeeded in their goal of "driving Israel into the sea"? Had those crushing military defeats for Israel's hostile neighbors been, rather, victories, would you have recognized "an illegal land grab"?
"I know an illegal land grab when I see it"
And so, would you have been there to protect Israel if, in 1948 or 1967 or 1973 Arab forces had succeeded in their goal of "driving Israel into the sea"? Had those crushing military defeats for Israel's hostile neighbors been, rather, victories, would you have recognized "an illegal land grab"?
5
If Mr. Netanyahu wants make sure that no peace process has even a remote chance for success, that's his prerogative & the choice of the Israeli people. Of course if he really wanted to promote peace in the Middle East he might freeze the settlements & offer to bring Israel’s formidable nuclear arsenal out of the closet, join the IAEA, sign the NPT & invite international inspectors to monitor its nuclear establishments in exactly the same way that he is advocating that we insist upon for Iran.
But no, as if brilliantly shown in this article, Mr. Netanyahu is building on other peoples' land to stay.
If he wished to pursue this ultimately suicidal policy, that's his business & it's up to the Israeli people to approve or not. However I do NOT want my tax dollars supporting this illegal activity. The $3.5 billion that we give Israel every year – about $500 for every man, woman & child living there – could much better be used to rebuild our own weakened infrastructure. Let Sheldon Adelman & his pals send their money directly to Israel is they wish, but no more funding of AIPAC to buy our politicians to keep approving the dole to this seemingly un-thankful country.
But no, as if brilliantly shown in this article, Mr. Netanyahu is building on other peoples' land to stay.
If he wished to pursue this ultimately suicidal policy, that's his business & it's up to the Israeli people to approve or not. However I do NOT want my tax dollars supporting this illegal activity. The $3.5 billion that we give Israel every year – about $500 for every man, woman & child living there – could much better be used to rebuild our own weakened infrastructure. Let Sheldon Adelman & his pals send their money directly to Israel is they wish, but no more funding of AIPAC to buy our politicians to keep approving the dole to this seemingly un-thankful country.
8
Simply, America can´t feed its poor, but it can fund Israeli wars by giving 6B$$ a year. And I ask why this very special treatment?
As long as billions of US $ flow and the UN veto card is automatically up in the air, nothing will change!
U.S. military aid to Israel exceeds $100 billion
The United States of America is Israel’s big brother and really loves us. Israel does not have and apparently will not have another friend like it. According to a recent Congress report, Israel is the country that has received more cumulative American aid than any other country since the end of World War II.
As long as billions of US $ flow and the UN veto card is automatically up in the air, nothing will change!
U.S. military aid to Israel exceeds $100 billion
The United States of America is Israel’s big brother and really loves us. Israel does not have and apparently will not have another friend like it. According to a recent Congress report, Israel is the country that has received more cumulative American aid than any other country since the end of World War II.
5
How duplicitous it is for Israel’s Prime Minister to attack an agreement with Iran to restrict its atomic energy program to peaceful objectives when Israel itself has a covert arsenal of at least 200 nuclear weapons, won’t sign the NPT and refuses to join the IAEA.
7
Jeez, with all the "critical" coverage about Israeli settlements and Israeli settlement policy contained in this piece you would think that the New York Times could at least include the perspective of the indigenous Palestinian people who actually live in the occupied region- sadly, a lack of the Palestinian perspective explains why a version of this article hasn't appeared beneath the Times banner in the last 20, 30 or 40 years.
6
Netanyahu is a hostage of the situation. He is in a big trouble in Israel. I am speaking about elections. Obama and his 'v15 group' are busy. Obama wants to sign the necessary documents and agreements that approve their relationship with Iran. Netanyahu is undesirable element in policy between our government and Israel. 'V15 group' is engaged in political discrediting of Netanyahu, as well as trying to strengthen the position of its direct competitors. Yitzhak Herzog, for example.
1
netanyahu is the problem
Netanyahu has failed to integrate Israel in the region with the 20 Arab countries. Let us be like the nations and elect a new Prime Minister who will seek peace and pursue it until Israel can fully trade with all Arab and Muslim States. (Arab League proposal in 2002).
Netanyahu has failed to integrate Israel in the region with the 20 Arab countries. Let us be like the nations and elect a new Prime Minister who will seek peace and pursue it until Israel can fully trade with all Arab and Muslim States. (Arab League proposal in 2002).
4
@tony silver
I am no fan of Netanyahu.
But really, can anyone actually say with a straight fact or an eye to the historic or current facts of life in the Middle East that "Netanyahu has failed to integrate Israel in the region with the 20 Arab countries"?
This is tantamount to saying to an African American family that bought a house in an all-white neighborhood, only to find a cross burning on their lawn, "You have failed to integrate in this neighborhood."
Surely you jest, or surely you have not seen the Hamas charter, or the maps of the area that exist almost everywhere in the Muslim ME, where Israel doesn't even appear? Please.
I am no fan of Netanyahu.
But really, can anyone actually say with a straight fact or an eye to the historic or current facts of life in the Middle East that "Netanyahu has failed to integrate Israel in the region with the 20 Arab countries"?
This is tantamount to saying to an African American family that bought a house in an all-white neighborhood, only to find a cross burning on their lawn, "You have failed to integrate in this neighborhood."
Surely you jest, or surely you have not seen the Hamas charter, or the maps of the area that exist almost everywhere in the Muslim ME, where Israel doesn't even appear? Please.
3
@Clairette Rose
And surely you jest (and have no grasp of the law) if you are suggesting that the African-American family in your analogy has the right (for whatever reason) to steal the neighbors' houses, expel the owners and plant other African-Americans in them, That's your (and Israel's) "solution"?
And surely you jest (and have no grasp of the law) if you are suggesting that the African-American family in your analogy has the right (for whatever reason) to steal the neighbors' houses, expel the owners and plant other African-Americans in them, That's your (and Israel's) "solution"?
1
The settlements are illegal. They defy UN resolutions and international law. But because Israel has nukes and the unqualified backing of the US, it can do whatever it wants without fear of international sanction.
So it builds settlements, which helps radicalize the Palestinians, who strike back, which provides the cover of "defence" to build more settlements ...
So it builds settlements, which helps radicalize the Palestinians, who strike back, which provides the cover of "defence" to build more settlements ...
10
The United States is complicit in the Netanyahu problem, since we permit it through our military aid. It is not enough to refuse to finance West Bank construction, since that has no effect at all. The United State should do something on the order of reducing military aid to Israel by $1,000,000 per square meter of any settler construction on the West Bank Only so would the Israeli government begin to see its settlement construction as a security problem. Unfortunately, Congress is unlikely to approve such a move. On the other hand, if polls are right, on Wednesday morning things might look different. How different, though, remains to be seen.
5
There is a constructive policy proposal. Terrific.
"Settlement policy"? New word for territorial occupation.
8
I've read over many of these comments and I am struck by the lack of perspective particularly among writers most critical of Jewish settlements in the West Bank (a majority). Israel is a tiny place. Nine miles from Qalqilya in the West Bank to the Mediterranean Sea. Should Jews only be permitted to live in Israel and nowhere else in the Middle East? There were more Jews living in Arab countries in 1948 than Muslim Arabs in Israel Today there are 1.5 million Muslim Arabs citizens of Israel (not the west Bank or Gaza) and close to zero Jews living in Arab countries. That says something about the different degree of tolerance in Israeli society compared to its neighbors. Something that these writers don't see or acknowledge. Remember, this is the Middle East, not Norway or Bhutan or New Zealand. I hope for a just reasonable two state solution because I respect all people. I hope Jews are allowed to remain in their cities and towns in the West Bank, territory central to our ancient thriving religious ethnic heritage. As citizens of Palestine? I don't know. Certainly not the Palestine of racist Hamas or the corrupt and incompetent PA. There are plenty of nasty intolerant Jews in the West Bank . . . and plenty of nasty intolerant Arabs and Muslims too, in the West Bank and beyond. When one group gets a pass and the other, the world's opprobrium, well it's hard not to question the critics motive. Even if the criticism is valid.
9
For those who are interested in facts rather than justification by statistics, the famous "generous" offer that was made to the Palestinian, which says that Israel offered them 96% of the territory, had this interesting kicker: the 96% did not include the territory already occupied, that is Israel would have kept what it had already occupied and would then release 96% of the rest. Which meant that they would retain another 4%. Without mentioning the control of the eastern frontier and other Israel provisions. It would have created a non-continuous territory, interrupted by Israeli controlled areas. For those who hold on to the fiction of this being "disputed" territory, there is no such dispute since the very act that created Israel is the same that created the Palestinian state. It is Palestinian territory occupied by Israel. In retrospect, do I wish that the Palestinian had accepted the UN division, the answer is an emphatic yes, but I understand the Arabs' anger when a bunch of colonial powers, yet again, resolved their problem at their expense.
13
The U.N. division in 1947 did not create Israel -it did not operate unilaterally. Therefore, it could not and did not create a Palestinian state on the West Bank. That land is disputed, as is the status of Jerusalem, until a final settlement is reached.
Israel's existence derives from its assertion of independence and ability to defend the territory which emerged from the fighting in 1947-48.
Israel's existence derives from its assertion of independence and ability to defend the territory which emerged from the fighting in 1947-48.
5
If the offer was so onerous, please explain why the palestinian leadership didn't counter-offer? That's an on-going problem: the palestinian leadership (and for the most part, the Arab leadership before them) has always been very good at saying "no" and walking away, but seemingly has never attempted a counter-offer that involves both sides to compromise.
4
There is no moral justification for Israel's actions. But history, particularly concerning the foundation of states, is a story of power, not ethics.
The US, Canada, Australia, Argentina, New Zealand, Brazil - all began in a similar fashion less than 500 years ago, which is not a great span of time in the whole of human existence.
Most commenters (including myself) would not be here had our forefathers not gradually taken control of territory and ethnically cleansed it.
One would like to believe these events would not occur in the 21st Century, with our advanced communications technology graphically and instantly relaying every injustice, but it is arrogant to assume we are anything more than tribalistic primates who are willing unleash violence on others for our own preservation and prosperity.
In short, my advice to the Palestinians: ADAPT to your new situation, and focus on building political and economic strength. The Israelis will not respond to anything but power.
The US, Canada, Australia, Argentina, New Zealand, Brazil - all began in a similar fashion less than 500 years ago, which is not a great span of time in the whole of human existence.
Most commenters (including myself) would not be here had our forefathers not gradually taken control of territory and ethnically cleansed it.
One would like to believe these events would not occur in the 21st Century, with our advanced communications technology graphically and instantly relaying every injustice, but it is arrogant to assume we are anything more than tribalistic primates who are willing unleash violence on others for our own preservation and prosperity.
In short, my advice to the Palestinians: ADAPT to your new situation, and focus on building political and economic strength. The Israelis will not respond to anything but power.
13
A singe State is the solution for all.
the creation of a single state stretching from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean sea in which Jews and Arabs would all be citizens with Equal civil rights and responsibilities regardless of race, religion, or national origin. Let it be free from religious and ethnic prejudice
the creation of a single state stretching from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean sea in which Jews and Arabs would all be citizens with Equal civil rights and responsibilities regardless of race, religion, or national origin. Let it be free from religious and ethnic prejudice
2
That would not ensure the security of the Jews and their property there based on the history of violence against the civilian population which well-preceded Israel's existence. Also, a single state is inconsistent with the history of the expulsion of 800,000 Jews from Arab countries in the 1950's and 60's. There is too much under the bridge to blithely sail into such an arrangement at the present time, it isn't practical and it isn't fair. A fair solution is a two-state one but despite reasonable settlement offers by Israel in recent years have been rejected.
6
Israeli voters have the opportunity next Tuesday to oust Netanyahu and shake this equation up. I hope our Israeli friends realize that the patience of the American people is waning.
20
Unfortunately, Palestinians do not have that same option to change their leadership. Mahmoud Abbas of Fatah, is now in the 10th year of the four year term to which he was elected in 2005; Ismael Haniyeh of Hamas, is now in the 8th year of the five year term to which he was elected in 2007.
If Palestinians had the same opportunity to change their leadership, as the Israelis currently do, they would have an opportunity to elect candidates more committed to negotiating a two state solution, than those currently in power.
If Palestinians had the same opportunity to change their leadership, as the Israelis currently do, they would have an opportunity to elect candidates more committed to negotiating a two state solution, than those currently in power.
6
A disgraceful and sickening story of Israel's methodical disenfranchisement and oppression of the Palestinian people and of course, theft of their lands. Israel is the new South Africa and it truly has been an apartheid country for many years. The worst part is that the United States has been complicit in all of this. It's way past time for the United States to cut off all economic, military, and political support to Israel; that country may want their "settlements", their "Greater Israel", and of course, their war with Iran, but let 'em do it on their own; not one more U.S. dollar should be spent on this country.
27
If yo actually knew anything about Israel or South Africa you wouldn't call the situation in Israel by the word "apartheid". The situation is nothing like the situation once was in South Africa, and you are insulting South Africans who endured it and struggled for freedom by drawing an equivelance.
6
@DH
Nelson Mandela and Desmond Tutu were far from "insulted" by the comparison: in fact they both said the situation for the Palestinians is WORSE than anything they had to endure in apartheid South Africa. Look it up.
Nelson Mandela and Desmond Tutu were far from "insulted" by the comparison: in fact they both said the situation for the Palestinians is WORSE than anything they had to endure in apartheid South Africa. Look it up.
1
Peace won't come until Israelis value the lives of their children more than they covet the land of their neighbors.
Mr. Netanyahu, tear down those settlements!
Mr. Netanyahu, tear down those settlements!
21
An interesting turn about of Golda Meir:
"Peace will come when the Arabs love their children more than they hate us."
And an interesting twist on Ronald Reagan:
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall."
These are the cheap theatrics of the propagandist devoid of any intellectual ammunition. Ian, you do not have any of Joseph Goebbels' talent!
The Palestinians are driven by an arrogant, greedy, self-centered sense of entitlement to "all the land between the river (Jordan) and the sea (Mediterranean);" they reject the concept of compromise to obtain peace and an independent state of their own, per the Covenants of the P.L.O. and Hamas.
Palestinians still hate the Israelis, to the extent that they refuse to negotiate with them, or make necessary compromises to obtain statehood.
The "wall (separation barrier)" was built by Yasser Arafat during the "Second Intifada," through suicide bombings of buses and restaurants, causing Palestinians who previously worked in Israel to become isolated and lose their jobs. The same idiocy, recently forced the SodaStream plant in the West Bank to move to Israel causing more Palestinians to lose their jobs. One does not win adherents to their cause by throwing people out of work!
"Peace will come when the Arabs love their children more than they hate us."
And an interesting twist on Ronald Reagan:
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall."
These are the cheap theatrics of the propagandist devoid of any intellectual ammunition. Ian, you do not have any of Joseph Goebbels' talent!
The Palestinians are driven by an arrogant, greedy, self-centered sense of entitlement to "all the land between the river (Jordan) and the sea (Mediterranean);" they reject the concept of compromise to obtain peace and an independent state of their own, per the Covenants of the P.L.O. and Hamas.
Palestinians still hate the Israelis, to the extent that they refuse to negotiate with them, or make necessary compromises to obtain statehood.
The "wall (separation barrier)" was built by Yasser Arafat during the "Second Intifada," through suicide bombings of buses and restaurants, causing Palestinians who previously worked in Israel to become isolated and lose their jobs. The same idiocy, recently forced the SodaStream plant in the West Bank to move to Israel causing more Palestinians to lose their jobs. One does not win adherents to their cause by throwing people out of work!
8
The Middle East dilemma was caused by the Germans and inadvertently by the UN.
Let us recall that the UN imperfectly created Israel in 1948, mostly at Palestinian expense, to solve a Jewish refugee problem and to make recompense for what the Germans did. However, it's now time to let the Palestinians establish their own state in what's left of their land.
We must also acknowledge that Jews are victims here too. You think they've liked living under siege for 67 years?
If the parties, given a fair chance, cannot themselves resolve this problem then the UN should impose a solution and police it until the parties get used to their facts on the ground.
Draw borders based upon where people actually live today, not in 1948, 1967 or 2,000 years ago and immediately confer international recognition upon those borders whether the parties like it or not. Invoke a policy akin to the Doctrine of Eminent Domain and award Just Compensation to everyone, Jews included, who lost property as a result of the UN's creation of Israel. The UN should establish a Middle East Compensation Commission where people come, present claims and walk out with a check in exchange for a Release of Claims. That's fair.
The settlers? Let them stay where they are. If they land on the Palestinian side of the border they'd be Jewish Palestinians who will enjoy all of the rights and privileges accorded to all citizens of the State of Palestine. Israel has Arabs, Palestine can have Jews. It's the same thing.
Let us recall that the UN imperfectly created Israel in 1948, mostly at Palestinian expense, to solve a Jewish refugee problem and to make recompense for what the Germans did. However, it's now time to let the Palestinians establish their own state in what's left of their land.
We must also acknowledge that Jews are victims here too. You think they've liked living under siege for 67 years?
If the parties, given a fair chance, cannot themselves resolve this problem then the UN should impose a solution and police it until the parties get used to their facts on the ground.
Draw borders based upon where people actually live today, not in 1948, 1967 or 2,000 years ago and immediately confer international recognition upon those borders whether the parties like it or not. Invoke a policy akin to the Doctrine of Eminent Domain and award Just Compensation to everyone, Jews included, who lost property as a result of the UN's creation of Israel. The UN should establish a Middle East Compensation Commission where people come, present claims and walk out with a check in exchange for a Release of Claims. That's fair.
The settlers? Let them stay where they are. If they land on the Palestinian side of the border they'd be Jewish Palestinians who will enjoy all of the rights and privileges accorded to all citizens of the State of Palestine. Israel has Arabs, Palestine can have Jews. It's the same thing.
17
Trans Jordan was part of the 1948 UN mandate that the arabs rejected. Jordan *IS* the Palestinian State.
7
@Mike
The UN did not create Israel.
Do your homework before repeating propaganda.
The UN did not create Israel.
Do your homework before repeating propaganda.
Maybe some eyes were opened by this. Some prefer war, esp if they profit from it, like the US defense establishment.
Mr Dayan said "Netanyahu is a master manipulator". Glad he was the one to say it, we've been ambushed by those manipulations lately.
Hoping Herzog wins this week so there can be a new start internationally and at home for Israel and some fresh takes on some old, old problems that aren't responding to Might Makes Right .
Mr Dayan said "Netanyahu is a master manipulator". Glad he was the one to say it, we've been ambushed by those manipulations lately.
Hoping Herzog wins this week so there can be a new start internationally and at home for Israel and some fresh takes on some old, old problems that aren't responding to Might Makes Right .
26
Due to this aggressive expansionism in Occupied Palestine the 2-state solution is simply no longer viable and a single state inevitable.
The real issue is will this single state be a democratic state for all its citizens or an apartheid state? If it will be a democratic state for all its citizens then Israel will no longer be a Jewish State. If it will be an apartheid Jewish State than Israel will be a pariah amongs nations, increasingly subject to BDS and will eventually go the way of South Africa.
By its endless greedy stealing of land in Occupied Palestine Israel has sown the seed of its demise as a Jewish State.
The real issue is will this single state be a democratic state for all its citizens or an apartheid state? If it will be a democratic state for all its citizens then Israel will no longer be a Jewish State. If it will be an apartheid Jewish State than Israel will be a pariah amongs nations, increasingly subject to BDS and will eventually go the way of South Africa.
By its endless greedy stealing of land in Occupied Palestine Israel has sown the seed of its demise as a Jewish State.
43
The tired, old, outdated "Apartheid" canard is a tool of bigots to delegitimize Israel. It is also hypocritical in the Mahmoud Abbas has publicly stated that no Jewish minority will be allowed to live in the putative Palestinian state. Isn't that also "Apartheid," Mr. Abbas?
Given the long standing enmity between Israelis and Palestinians, a "single state" would rapidly devolve into chaos. One need only look to other "single state" solutions, such as Syria, Iraq and Lebanon, all in a state of civil war, to see the obvious!
Given the long standing enmity between Israelis and Palestinians, a "single state" would rapidly devolve into chaos. One need only look to other "single state" solutions, such as Syria, Iraq and Lebanon, all in a state of civil war, to see the obvious!
7
Looking at the map of settlements and reading this article made it beyond convincingly clear to me that Israel has no intention of giving anything meaningful of the West Bank to the Palestinians as part of a two-state solution, otherwise you'd expect see settlements geographically located other than where they are. It's shameful the world is doing nothing to protect Palestinians from the outright theft of their lands and their nationality. Israel will always find an excuse for not reaching an agreement.
15
Before someone deletes my comment, please note that I am an American Jew. Read my autobiography if you do not believe me.
My comment: Eastern European Jewish immigrants to Israel should be familiar with the term lebensraum. By what right do you steal and colonize Palestinians' land?
My comment: Eastern European Jewish immigrants to Israel should be familiar with the term lebensraum. By what right do you steal and colonize Palestinians' land?
22
And how do you know it its "theirs"? How did they come to control it? If you actually knew who lived where and when you'd understand your simplistic point of view makes no sense.
2
Precisely my point, DH.
@DH
"How do you know it's theirs?" They hokd deeds of ownership, that's how. Land does not belong to an ethnicity, it belong to individuals.
"How do you know it's theirs?" They hokd deeds of ownership, that's how. Land does not belong to an ethnicity, it belong to individuals.
"East Jerusalem"—Jerusalem and its surroundings were envisioned as an international area under United Nations administration in the 1947 partition plan, which was accepted by Israel but rejected by all Arab nations. In 1948, Jordan captured and annexed the eastern half of Jerusalem, while Israel captured and annexed the west. Following the Six-Day War in 1967, Israel annexed the eastern part, together with several villages around it. In 1980 the Israeli Knesset passed the Jerusalem Law stating that "Jerusalem, complete and united, is the capital of Israel".
The Gaza Strip and West Bank form part of the areas offered by the UN to a prospective Arab state of Palestine in the Partition Plan, which was rejected by the Arabs. From 1948 until 1967, The Gaza Strip was occupied by Egypt and the West Bank was annexed by Jordan. Together with the annexation of East Jerusalem mentioned above, Jordan's annexation of the West Bank was not recognized internationally. Since 1967, the West Bank has been under military occupation. Gaza was also occupied in 1967, but after Israel's unilateral disengagement in 2005 the status has become disputed, with conflicting opinions on whether or not the occupation has ended.
What does the history of the land show? Every single offer was rejected by Arab nations and while Israel accepted the terms. War ensued started by the Arab nations and land was captured as a result. Sore losers do not make the land illegal!
The Gaza Strip and West Bank form part of the areas offered by the UN to a prospective Arab state of Palestine in the Partition Plan, which was rejected by the Arabs. From 1948 until 1967, The Gaza Strip was occupied by Egypt and the West Bank was annexed by Jordan. Together with the annexation of East Jerusalem mentioned above, Jordan's annexation of the West Bank was not recognized internationally. Since 1967, the West Bank has been under military occupation. Gaza was also occupied in 1967, but after Israel's unilateral disengagement in 2005 the status has become disputed, with conflicting opinions on whether or not the occupation has ended.
What does the history of the land show? Every single offer was rejected by Arab nations and while Israel accepted the terms. War ensued started by the Arab nations and land was captured as a result. Sore losers do not make the land illegal!
11
mrestler:
"Every single offer was rejected by Arab nations and while Israel accepted the terms."
If someone moved into your home, and if a mediator offered you half of your home back again on condition you accept the squatter's right to the other half, what would you have done?
The land grab in the West Bank is illegal and inexcusable.
"Every single offer was rejected by Arab nations and while Israel accepted the terms."
If someone moved into your home, and if a mediator offered you half of your home back again on condition you accept the squatter's right to the other half, what would you have done?
The land grab in the West Bank is illegal and inexcusable.
16
The "land grab" is not the reason the 1948 peace plan was rejected by the ruling Arab nations. If they had acted on behalf of the Palestinian people, as no Palestinian nation existed, the ruling Arab nations decline would have been admirable and maybe a compromise around those issues could have been found. Unfortunately, nobody went to the table because the only reason it was rejected was yet once again the issue of declaring Israel any right to exist at all.
6
The land grab also began with the secret negotiations between Egypt and England and was officially accepted in 1919 with the Balfour declaration. The fight about control of Palestine and who owns the land began well before Israel ever entered the picture. Enough already with Israel stealing anything. At this point bring a legitimate government that will deal with the realty of the situation and move forward from there. Israel is not leaving the land and the Palestinians need a legitimate government who uses funds provided internationally and by Israel to go beyond just meeting the Palestinians needs but building them a true home. Something the settlements have shown can be done in the territories.
4
The solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is well-known, is acceptable to the West, is acceptable to the rest of the world, is consistent with official US foreign policy, is consistent with UN Resolutions and international law, is consistent with the principles laid out by the Quartet, and is consistent with the proposal put forward by the Arab League.
It is what the world demands and what Israel refuses to accept:
2 viable states; 1967 boundaries with mutually agreed land swaps, right of return negotiated using both (limited) property and (fair) compensation.
It is what the world demands and what Israel refuses to accept:
2 viable states; 1967 boundaries with mutually agreed land swaps, right of return negotiated using both (limited) property and (fair) compensation.
8
Israel has offered this solution and it hasn't been accepted by the Palestinians. They haven't been willing to accept any compromise regarding Jerusalem, or any pullback from the so-called "right of return".
3
DH, I do not recall Israel agreeing to this. Perhaps it was given a slight nod at the same time Netanyahu was moving the goal posts, demanding recognition of the "Jewish State of Israel"?
1
4th Geneva Convention
Article 49
......
The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies.
Article 53.
Any destruction by the Occupying Power of real or personal property belonging individually or collectively to private persons, or to the State, or to other public authorities, or to social or cooperative organizations, is prohibited,
Article 49
......
The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies.
Article 53.
Any destruction by the Occupying Power of real or personal property belonging individually or collectively to private persons, or to the State, or to other public authorities, or to social or cooperative organizations, is prohibited,
13
It's disputed in international law if Israel is in fact an occupying power. It's not disputed in International politics. That article was written in the context of populations in occupied areas being moved out of their homes. This hasn't happened in the West Bank. The Palestinians haven't been made to leave.
3
DH
Not so, Article 49 involves the installation of your people into the occupied territory whether or not the occupied people are displaced and for Article 53 there are endless records of Israel-authorized destruction of homes and olive groves.
Not so, Article 49 involves the installation of your people into the occupied territory whether or not the occupied people are displaced and for Article 53 there are endless records of Israel-authorized destruction of homes and olive groves.
2
You do know that the same Geneva Convention is also against any organization be it the military or terrorists that happen to place their own people into harm's way of attacks when using densely, populated areas for either military bases or weapons storage, not to mention using them as human shields.
1
One of the abiding impressions I have, reading many of the comments here, is the massive hypocrisy of people living in North America intoning that Jews have no right to their own state or must stay within 1967 border lines even though those were the result of a mere armistice.
Europeans came to North, Central and South America, places in which they had no previous roots, swept aside where necessary the indigenous populations, and simply took the land for a pittance or nothing. In contrast, Jews had a state in Israel 2000 years ago, have always lived there, bought the land they later colonized, and did it where there was no country called Palestine but rather a distant province of an Empire which ceased to exist after WW 1.
That's called chutzpa.
Europeans came to North, Central and South America, places in which they had no previous roots, swept aside where necessary the indigenous populations, and simply took the land for a pittance or nothing. In contrast, Jews had a state in Israel 2000 years ago, have always lived there, bought the land they later colonized, and did it where there was no country called Palestine but rather a distant province of an Empire which ceased to exist after WW 1.
That's called chutzpa.
12
By your analogy, it should also be acceptable if Israel reintroduced slavery. Because it once existed in the West. This is the 21 century and some things that were done and accepted hundreds of years ago are no longer acceptable in civilized enlightened nations. And Israel purports to be such a nation.
1
It's a sad reality Iran and Israel are heading in opposite directions. Yes, Rouhani has shown to be a man of reason, able to negotiate and offer hope. But Israel has turned a blind eye to plight of Palestinian refugees. I'm outraged at our support of Israel's human rights abuses.
Perhaps the upcoming Israeli election can offer the same optimism for suffering Palestinians? I'll go further and say Iran accepts Israel's right to exist if Israel does the same for Palestine.
Perhaps the upcoming Israeli election can offer the same optimism for suffering Palestinians? I'll go further and say Iran accepts Israel's right to exist if Israel does the same for Palestine.
9
President Rouhani is a reasonable man, but the ultimate decision in the nuclear program negotiations will not be made by him, but rather the "Supreme Leader."
The Palestinian refugees, like President Rouhani, are pawns to be moved on the chessboard for purposes, other than the real interests of either the Iranians, or Palestinians. War will benefit none of the parties to these regional conflicts, but a negotiated "modus-vivendi" will!
The Palestinian refugees, like President Rouhani, are pawns to be moved on the chessboard for purposes, other than the real interests of either the Iranians, or Palestinians. War will benefit none of the parties to these regional conflicts, but a negotiated "modus-vivendi" will!
3
There are no accountability from the Israeli Government.
The Israeli and US relations are synonymous to that of a dysfunctional codependent family. The United States is manipulated to the hilt, while the israeli government continue to violate peace agreements with the Palestinians and are not held accountable. President Obama is the only President who showed some resolve but still has to tread lightly as he already been accused of not being a friend to Israel. The Palestinians are rightfully filing a case with the ICC against the Israeli government for war crimes.
The Israeli and US relations are synonymous to that of a dysfunctional codependent family. The United States is manipulated to the hilt, while the israeli government continue to violate peace agreements with the Palestinians and are not held accountable. President Obama is the only President who showed some resolve but still has to tread lightly as he already been accused of not being a friend to Israel. The Palestinians are rightfully filing a case with the ICC against the Israeli government for war crimes.
9
Israel will reap what it sows. The message this sends to the Palestinians and Arab world is that Israel will do what it damn pleases. Of course only under the watch of the U.S. I can tell you as an American, I am sick and tired of Israel's shenanigans and their support among the rank and file in the country is waning. Israel's short term gains will mean continued long term torment for them. Horrible decision making on Israel's part.
30
Likewise, the Arabs/Palestinians will reap what they sow!
In 1948, Israel accepted the U.N. Partition under UNGAR 181, which the Arabs/Palestinians rejected by initiating the first of many "wars of aggression" against Israel, which they consistently lost. The length of the term of Israel's gains, in the wars in which Israel prevailed, will be determined by the willingness of the Palestinians to negotiate for the return of most captured land, in exchange for peace.
The sooner they engage in negotiations and reach agreement on a viable two state solution, the shorter the term of Israel war gains, will be. The longer they refuse to negotiate with Israel and make the necessary compromises for the creation of their state, the longer the term of Israel's gains will remain!
In 1948, Israel accepted the U.N. Partition under UNGAR 181, which the Arabs/Palestinians rejected by initiating the first of many "wars of aggression" against Israel, which they consistently lost. The length of the term of Israel's gains, in the wars in which Israel prevailed, will be determined by the willingness of the Palestinians to negotiate for the return of most captured land, in exchange for peace.
The sooner they engage in negotiations and reach agreement on a viable two state solution, the shorter the term of Israel war gains, will be. The longer they refuse to negotiate with Israel and make the necessary compromises for the creation of their state, the longer the term of Israel's gains will remain!
4
In reality, Israel under Netanyahu does not stand still. It moves backwards, as the world changes around it. A Netanyahu-led Israel will find itself occupying a Palestine full of ISIS recruits. Yes, there are risks in trying for a settlement in the occupied territories. But Netanyahu's path is certain to fail. His path only leads to darkness.
19
Unspoken assumption (1): the US is completely impotent to rein in Israel's settlement building on Palestinian land. Unspoken assumption (2): Herzog/Livni's position on settlements is NOT worth critical examination. Readers are here being to treated to some very pretty pictures and decidedly superficial analysis. Netanyahu is not alone on this "march toward permanence" - he joins every Israeli government and every US Congress since the occupation began.
14
Unspoken assumption (3): if the Palestinians wait long enough, they will be able to conquer Israel and obtain a state of their own. Unspoken assumption (4): there is no need to negotiate for return of land captured by Israel, as Palestinians are entitled to everything, without negotiating for it.
After losing several "wars of aggression" against Israel and refusing to negotiate and make necessary compromises to create a Palestinian state, nothing is likely to change until they do so. If a negotiated peace for Israel is not an option, irrespective of what concessions Israel may be willing to make at the negotiating table, there is no disincentive to Israel expanding settlements up to the banks of the Jordan River.
After losing several "wars of aggression" against Israel and refusing to negotiate and make necessary compromises to create a Palestinian state, nothing is likely to change until they do so. If a negotiated peace for Israel is not an option, irrespective of what concessions Israel may be willing to make at the negotiating table, there is no disincentive to Israel expanding settlements up to the banks of the Jordan River.
4
These 'facts on the ground' are a result of the US winking at these violations of international law and the Europeans yielding the field to the Americans. The Geneva Conventions say that an occupying power cannot move settlers into occupied territory. It's really that simple! Israel is hoping to make life so miserable for the Palestinians that they'll up and leave, but that won't happen. Time is not on the side of the Israelis. Just like apartheid ended in South Africa, likewise it'll end on the West Bank and Gaza.
27
It really isn't that simple, and that's why successive American administrations haven't called the settlements illegal - b/c their legal scholarship tells them that they aren't.
Their is no apartheid in the West Bank and Gaza - except in areas where Palestinians refuse to allow Jews at all - such as in all of Gaza and in the areas of the West Bank controlled by the PA.
Their is no apartheid in the West Bank and Gaza - except in areas where Palestinians refuse to allow Jews at all - such as in all of Gaza and in the areas of the West Bank controlled by the PA.
3
"According to official data from Israel’s Central Bureau of Statistics, housing construction in West Bank settlements fell by a whopping 52 percent last year–far greater than the 8 percent decline in construction nationwide. Moreover, the bureau said, settlement construction throughout Benjamin Netanyahu’s six years as prime minister has been significantly lower than it was under his predecessors: Overall, the number of housing starts in the settlements was 19 percent lower in 2009-2014 than it was in 2003-2008, under prime ministers Ariel Sharon and Ehud Olmert, while the number of housing completions was 15 percent lower."
Commentary Magazine, today.
Doesn't exactly match-up to the repeated portrayal of him in the Times as the worst person in the world, does it?
Commentary Magazine, today.
Doesn't exactly match-up to the repeated portrayal of him in the Times as the worst person in the world, does it?
12
These settlements will make it impossible for a separate Palestinian state to exist. In time, the entire West Bank will become part of Israel and Arabs and Jews (and others) will live as citizens of the same state. This state will not be a Jewish State. Certainly, not in the long run, as the non-Jewish population will equal and eventually out-number the Jewish one. And will insist on equal rights. This may take decades, but it will happen and may, in the end, be a very good thing for all involved.
13
Given the long term enmity between Palestinians and Israelis, a "single state" solution would soon devolve into civil war. One need only look at other "single states," where there are no Jews, such as Syria, Ira and Lebanon, all of which are engaged in civil war between Sunni, Shia and IS/Daesh, to see how successful that would be. Israel's founders decided to form a Jewish state to avoid those problems and provide stability.
3
America moved all the Indians to reservations! No doubt, Netanyahu would do the same with the Palestinians if he could. Breaking them up with settlements is his next best option!
But all of Israel should remember Dr. Kings words - “The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends towards justice.”
But all of Israel should remember Dr. Kings words - “The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends towards justice.”
25
Thanks, Vexray. Them are some powerful words!
1
I hate to say it, but who cars about the rate of increase or decrease in the number of house built in the West Bank. The idea is simply this. According to international law, not one house is to be built in Occupied Territory.
1
Israel, just as any other nation, has a right to define its foreign policy in light of the threats it faces. If that means encroachment on the West Bank justified by whatever theory Israeli scholars can muster, that is what they must do to insure the safety of their nation. No one who is not an Israeli is free to challenge the Israeli definition of its precarious situation, because only they have the moral or political authority to live with the consequences of their choices. What the rest of us may do is to divorce ourselves from what some of us may consider to be dangerous to our national interests. For example, American taxpayers funnel funds to the Israelis. However, money is fungible thus the funds we send them release other funds to build settlements, etc. In short, through this policy Americans are complicit in the encroachment of the settlements in the West Bank. No doubt some Americans, Adelson and the evangelicals for example, welcome that situation, but others don't. We need a national debate on the degree to which we should continue to support, even by proxy, Israeli policies with our foreign aid. The issue is stark: Is the continued Israeli encroachment in the West Bank in the American interest? Let the debate begin.
7
You talk as if it's all up to an American ethical debate. Well that may be an intellectually interesting discussion, but the rest of the world is focused on the enforcement international laws.
13
And if you studied international law, you'd see the West Bank is disputed territory -- not occupied territory, since it hasn't had a recognized sovereign since the fall of the Ottoman Empire. And most of its land was public land at the time of the Ottoman collapse with no title to anyone since. Under international law, the existing sovereign assumes the title. And where in international law does it require a country who was repeatedly attacked with the intent to annihilate it, have to return any land captured in a war of self-defense?
10
And I question if "the rest of the world" has not adopted a politicized view of it. International law is not like the kind of law under which we pay our taxes, say, or which regulates the safety of the roads. It has no central enforcement body, for one thing.
Then too, when Israel and the Jewish people would have benefited from the application of international law in their history, it wasn't there, frequently. It can't just work one way.
The Arab-Israeli issue is political in its essence, not legal.
Then too, when Israel and the Jewish people would have benefited from the application of international law in their history, it wasn't there, frequently. It can't just work one way.
The Arab-Israeli issue is political in its essence, not legal.
6
Lose a war and refuse to make peace for 48 years, don't expect to escape consequences.
Win a war whose alternative was extinction and be challenged every day for your very existence, what motivation do you have to withhold taking advantage of what you won through striving for your life?
"You can avoid reality but you can't ignore the consequences of avoiding reality" - Ayn Rand
Win a war whose alternative was extinction and be challenged every day for your very existence, what motivation do you have to withhold taking advantage of what you won through striving for your life?
"You can avoid reality but you can't ignore the consequences of avoiding reality" - Ayn Rand
13
The only way there will be peace in the Middle East is when America stops sending 3 billion dollars to Israel every year. Bring back our diplomats from Israel and show the Arab nations that America will stop at nothing to achieve peace.
28
Will the Arab nations stop at nothing to achieve peace? So far, the Arab League drafted and offered a two state solution, under which it offered diplomatic relations to Israel, it Israelis and Palestinians negotiated a two state solution. Israel is willing to negotiate, but Palestinians are not yet ready!
3
The Palestinians and the Arab nations can have peace tomorrow that would include a substantial retreat of Israelis from the West Bank. All they need to say is that we welcome the Jewish State of Israel to the neighborhood and want to live in peace. It worked for Sadat, and it would work for them. The problem is that they still want to drive the Jews of Israel into the sea, but expect Israel to make it easier for them to do by unilaterally surrendering land. Israel should keep building on whatever territory they control until the day the Arab nations wake up and realize that love is better than hate.
13
Here in the US we can't afford repair for roads and bridges, can't afford food support, can't afford housing for homeless veterans and others, can't afford health care for a huge portion of the population, but we can afford to support building nice suburbs after the previous occupants have been kicked out of their houses. Whatever sympathy or interest I had for Israel, which has been waning over time, disappeared completely last summer with the Gaza debacle Israel has had over half a century to figure this out, with our tax dollars, and they have failed.
30
The US is directly responsible for permitting this to go on. Without our continued unconditional support the Israelis would have to change their ways.
US goals are undermined by the interference of AIPAC and its cohorts in our political process. This nefarious lobby has corrupted Congress, and puts the interests of Israel above those of the US.
US goals are undermined by the interference of AIPAC and its cohorts in our political process. This nefarious lobby has corrupted Congress, and puts the interests of Israel above those of the US.
40
In good conscience, can the United States continue to support Israel with unwavering loyalty? As a non Jewish American, I had unquestioning support for Israel for more than forty years. I can no longer. The reasons for the Israeli government not moving forward with a two state solution sound less and less convincing. They have kept Palestinians in a state of second class citizenship. I have heard the arguments justifying the settlements; they no longer ring true. Despite the strong pro Israel stance of so many of our politicians, the American public is becoming disillusioned. Over time the loss of our support will mark the end of this friendship.
30
Question: What gave birth to, and nurtures, Islamic terrorism?
Answer: Western imperialism, intrusion, and pillage in several Middle East countries, compounded greatly by Israeli injustices against the Palestinians.
Want to help ISIL, ..... just keep building settlements in the West Bank and take over Islamic holy sites in Jerusalem.
Answer: Western imperialism, intrusion, and pillage in several Middle East countries, compounded greatly by Israeli injustices against the Palestinians.
Want to help ISIL, ..... just keep building settlements in the West Bank and take over Islamic holy sites in Jerusalem.
30
ISIL started in Syria against the Syrian led Assad regime. You paint quite a utopian image of Arab relations. Take Israel and America out of the equation and you still have fighting amongst themselves! Saddam was quick to use chemical warfare on the Kurds, the Iranians kill anyone in protest of the regime readily, the Saudis support and then alternatively fight Al Qaeda - it is naive to believe that the removal of the two best PR cries for terrorists will bring peace. If anything, it would bring more power grabs within their own countries and between them.
7
Greg, I find your statement to be nothing but looking for a scapegoat. Islamic terrorism would have existed whether or not Israel came around. As for your mention of holy sites in Jerusalem, the Jews were there almost a millennium before Islam even exists. As a matter of fact, the Dome of the Rock was built on the Temple Mount, where Abraham was said to sacrifice his son Issac. Nearby is the Western (or Wailing) Wall, which is a remnant of the Second Temple, and was built two thousand years ago. BTW, Muslims still get to pray at the Muslim Quarter in Jerusalem as do Palestinian Muslims as well. One other thing, nowhere in the Koran does it even say that Jerusalem is a holy city for Muslims considering the fact that they face Mecca when praying when it's the Jews who are facing Jerusalem. More importantly, there is absolutely no historical evidence that Mohammed even reached Jerusalem in his journeys as even the Starry Night Passage is pretty vague on that. Meanwhile, what's going on in the rest of the region has nothing to do with Israel's existence, but rather their own internal conflict, though some of those Muslim leaders will scapegoat Israel every now and then. I highly doubt that if Israel didn't exist, none of that would ever happen, and many of these Muslim extremists just happen to be anti-West. In reality, Israel alone cannot stop Arab Unity, and Israel had nothing to do with the Arab Spring either nor does any of it happen to benefit them in that matter.
7
I view these settlements as having been built with great assistance from my tax dollars, and I am not happy. We give Israel billions each year for defense. This allows them to re-purpose their internal tax revenues for their own purposes. Money is fungible. It wouldn't stop their spread across the disputed lands, but it would certainly slow them down if they had to fund their own defense. I want my money back!
36
The settlements speak for themselves. Nationalist and religiously motivated Israeli politicians and settlers have no intention of ever allowing a Palestinian state. They are determined to steal every inch of Palestinian land and, apparently, keep the Palestinians in permanent subjugation. The "negotiations" are just a delaying tactic while they carry out this very obvious plan.
The United States has enabled Israel in its relentless land-grab. Everything that happens to the Palestinians, every act of violence that results from these settlements and Israel's policies of land-theft, are the responsibility of the US. How many thousands of Palestinians will Israel kill the next time it "mows the grass" in Gaza, a punishment to the people in Gaza who see what is being done to their people and refuse to surrender what little dignity they can find in resistance. How many thousands will die when the next Palestinian intifada comes in the Occupied West Bank? How long will the excuses about terrorism and Jewish victimization be trotted out to justify land theft and the brutal oppression of a captive, devastated people?
It is long, long past time that Israel was subjected to punishing sanctions for its illegal and provocative actions. The BDS movement is a good start. But more needs to be done. Israel's greatest threat is the threat it poses to itself.
The United States has enabled Israel in its relentless land-grab. Everything that happens to the Palestinians, every act of violence that results from these settlements and Israel's policies of land-theft, are the responsibility of the US. How many thousands of Palestinians will Israel kill the next time it "mows the grass" in Gaza, a punishment to the people in Gaza who see what is being done to their people and refuse to surrender what little dignity they can find in resistance. How many thousands will die when the next Palestinian intifada comes in the Occupied West Bank? How long will the excuses about terrorism and Jewish victimization be trotted out to justify land theft and the brutal oppression of a captive, devastated people?
It is long, long past time that Israel was subjected to punishing sanctions for its illegal and provocative actions. The BDS movement is a good start. But more needs to be done. Israel's greatest threat is the threat it poses to itself.
31
How does a gated community keep Palestinians in subjugation? Hamas funneling billions of international money into war mongering keeps the Palestinians down. All around the gates are Palestinians living in poor conditions. If anything, the settlements do stand as an example of the kind of neighborhoods and infrastructure Palestinians could enjoy if their elected governments cared about their welfare more than hatred. And is it assumed legal that Jews will not be allowed to live in the new state? Israel is expected to open a fence an allow free flow of Palestinians across her borders and to work within the nation but reciprocity is not assumed? What a double standard indeed!
5
While not reported in American press - the settlers routinely commit acts of violence against the Arab population & their personal properties - with impunity.
2
Where is the Palestinian sentiment for a two state solution? The founding documents of both Hamas and the P.L.O. unequivocally reject ti. Both seek to destroy Israel and replace it with their own state. If as Palestinians define it, the conflict is strictly a "one to the exclusion of the other" proposition, and no compromise with Israel providing for two states is acceptable, then nothing precludes Israel from being the the one dominant state, as the sole means of national self-preservation!
The Arabs/Palestinians rejected the original U.N. partition to create two states, "one Arab and one Jewish," in the language of UNGAR 181, by initiating the first of several "wars of aggression," all of which they lost.
By reason of conquest, that land is in the possession of Israel as the victorious belligerent, under International Law, may retain it until possession is modified by treaty. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uti_possidetis
When, and if, Palestinians are prepared to negotiate and make the necessary compromises to obtain a state of their own as part of a two state agreement, nothing precludes Israel as the victorious belligerent from retaining and even expanding settlement across the West Bank (Samaria and Judea)!
The Arabs/Palestinians rejected the original U.N. partition to create two states, "one Arab and one Jewish," in the language of UNGAR 181, by initiating the first of several "wars of aggression," all of which they lost.
By reason of conquest, that land is in the possession of Israel as the victorious belligerent, under International Law, may retain it until possession is modified by treaty. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uti_possidetis
When, and if, Palestinians are prepared to negotiate and make the necessary compromises to obtain a state of their own as part of a two state agreement, nothing precludes Israel as the victorious belligerent from retaining and even expanding settlement across the West Bank (Samaria and Judea)!
3
I think that President Obama should travel to Israel to give a stern lecture to the Knesset and Netanyahu on how to conduct peace talks and come to an agreement on a two state solution within our lifetimes. Ha! Wouldn't that be hilarious. But of course the mendacious Bibi and the right wing (and so many enabling otherwise socially progressive Israelis) have no intention of ever agreeing to a fair arrangement with the Palestinians. But let's all go on pretending that Netanyahu is just waiting for the "right" partner to make peace with while he kicks into overdrive the settlement construction and makes his pleas for the entire jewish diaspora to relocate to Israel, cheered on by the wacky Christian fundamentalists who yearn for rapture. Oy vey ist mir!
21
How many times have offers been made to the Palestinians and over how many administrations to be rejected in favor of war? And name one negotiation Obama has been successful at! If anything, Israel could give a lecture on how to deal with Arabs who want to annihilate a people and still manage to survive. I would love Obama to get a nice talk on how to deal with beheadings and terrorism since this all seems to very new for him! Fortunately, America has an ally that has been dealing with this since 1947.
4
What if President Obama went over to Gaza and the West Bank and gave a stern lecture to the Palestinians focusing on these points:
1)If you want your own country, you need to recognize Israel's right to exist and it will exist as your next door neighbor
2)If you don't accept Israel's right to exist, they will continue to build settlements on what you consider your land, maintain "humiliating" checkpoints, retaliate in a deadly way whenever your "freedom" fighters start launching rockets or kidnap Israeli soldiers.
3)And if you don't, the US will stop all payments of aid to your people.
1)If you want your own country, you need to recognize Israel's right to exist and it will exist as your next door neighbor
2)If you don't accept Israel's right to exist, they will continue to build settlements on what you consider your land, maintain "humiliating" checkpoints, retaliate in a deadly way whenever your "freedom" fighters start launching rockets or kidnap Israeli soldiers.
3)And if you don't, the US will stop all payments of aid to your people.
6
Name one single FAIR offer made to the Palestinians? Name one single offer that includes Palestinian statehood. Name one offer in which the Palestinians are allowed to control all of their land without having it carved up into bantustans by Israeli military controlled roadways. Name one contentious situation in which there are not those on BOTH sides calling for the annihilation of the other. It is so convenient to regurgitate the hackneyed storyline that the peace-seeking and just Israelis are unable to find a peace partner, unable to sift through all those "Arabs who want to annihilate a people" to find a single leader with whom they can negotiate with meaningfully. I reject this emphatically. Stop already. There are extremists on both sides. It does not mean they have to win. Or, continue on with the status quo which will, of course, give Netanyahu and Israel more time to settle more land, as they have been doing for decades. And all the supporters of this policy can continue to delude themselves that they are doing the best with a difficult situation.
2
It would seems that all the planners, architects, engineers, developers, promoters/agents, and investors behind the settlement building have exposed themselves to huge liabilities in the event the World Court deems the settlements to be in violation of the 4th Geneva Convention.
23
The focus has to switch away from Netanyahu towards the State of Israel's obligations to the UN and to international law. The world is simply not going to abandon all the work since the end of WWII to maintain order and protect human rights on this planet. World leaders must stand up for the enforcement of our laws and be resolute to condemn and punish human rights abuse. If not, chaos.
41
What about Palestinian obligations, particularly accepting the reality of two states, as originally provided under UNGAR 181, and the consequences of initiating "wars of aggression" against Israel, which they always lost. When Palestinians choose to accept their obligations, they will find the road to peace and statehood significantly easier and more productive.
4
A two-state solution is dead, kaput! We should now start thinking how to transform, what the International Crisis Group said was a "one state reality" into a one state solution. For those who still hope that a two-state solution is possible, I have to quote Downton Abbey. Granny (Maggie Smith) said this season something like "Hope is a tease. It is designed to keep you from facing reality." Sad that is is the case, because it condemns Israel to never have a permanent internationally recognized border; it condemns Israel to always be an occupier; it condemns Israel to be forever in violation of international law; it will forever undermine the view that Israel shares civilized rules of international conduct. Israel is blessed by the enemies it has but if the Palestinians and their supporters ever get their act together (end corruption, institute a rule of law, hold elections, end its deep divisions), it will not be just the fringe left that embraces Palestinian solidarity, it will also be all people who value justice.
7
If the two state solution is dead, it is because Palestinians never accepted it, thus forfeiting their statehood aspirations. Israel, founded in 1948, had accepted the original U.N. two state partition, but Arabs/Palestinians, who rejected it, initiated several "wars of aggression," all of which they lost. The Palestinians have thus abandoned hope and must face the reality that Israel, as the victorious belligerent due to military superiority, will dominate the region and continue to occupy land, which would have been returned under a two state solution, as a war prize.
The Palestinians will become an isolated, subjugated people under Israel occupation. One need only look at Gaza, which has suffered significantly as a consequence of three Hamas initiated wars, to see the eventual outcome of Palestinian intransigence. In a decade, or two, all Palestinian infrastructure in Gaza will be devastated and its people reduced to dependence on U.N. handouts. Israel relying on Article 51 of the U.N. Charter, recognizing an "inherent right to individual, or collective self-defense," will dominate Judea and Samaria, thus becoming the "one-state" solution!
The Palestinians will become an isolated, subjugated people under Israel occupation. One need only look at Gaza, which has suffered significantly as a consequence of three Hamas initiated wars, to see the eventual outcome of Palestinian intransigence. In a decade, or two, all Palestinian infrastructure in Gaza will be devastated and its people reduced to dependence on U.N. handouts. Israel relying on Article 51 of the U.N. Charter, recognizing an "inherent right to individual, or collective self-defense," will dominate Judea and Samaria, thus becoming the "one-state" solution!
3
We should all find it strange that this article doesn't include any Palestinian voices. Will there be a forthcoming feature documenting the daily life of Palestinian residents of the West Bank, written by Palestinians, without any Israeli-Jewish representation?
Also conspicuously absent: an explanation of the fact that the Israeli government deliberately allocates more resources to West Bank settlements and withholds them from neighboring Palestinian communities that are also under its control. I learned about this from the Israeli independent journalists at +972: http://972mag.com/visualizing-occupation-distribution-of-water/49925/
I support a peace agreement that calls for equal rights for all the people living in all territories controlled by Israel, regardless of religious or ethnic identity.
Also conspicuously absent: an explanation of the fact that the Israeli government deliberately allocates more resources to West Bank settlements and withholds them from neighboring Palestinian communities that are also under its control. I learned about this from the Israeli independent journalists at +972: http://972mag.com/visualizing-occupation-distribution-of-water/49925/
I support a peace agreement that calls for equal rights for all the people living in all territories controlled by Israel, regardless of religious or ethnic identity.
24
So you feel the same standard would be held for land held by Palestinians? Equal rights for all people living in the territories regardless of religious or ethnic identity?
4
Hajo Meyer, Holocaust survivor says it well.
'I can write up an endless list of similarities between Nazi Germany and Israel. The capturing of land and property, denying people access to educational opportunities and restricting access to earn a living to destroy their hope, all with the aim to chase people away from their land. And what I personally find more appalling then dirtying one’s hands by killing people, is creating circumstances where people start to kill each other. Then the distinction between victims and perpetrators becomes faint. By sowing discord in a situation where there is no unity, by enlarging the gap between people — like Israel is doing in Gaza.'
'I can write up an endless list of similarities between Nazi Germany and Israel. The capturing of land and property, denying people access to educational opportunities and restricting access to earn a living to destroy their hope, all with the aim to chase people away from their land. And what I personally find more appalling then dirtying one’s hands by killing people, is creating circumstances where people start to kill each other. Then the distinction between victims and perpetrators becomes faint. By sowing discord in a situation where there is no unity, by enlarging the gap between people — like Israel is doing in Gaza.'
37
Not only does most of the world consider the colonies to be illegal, so did the highest international law experts at the Israeli Foreign Ministry in 1967. Theodor Meron, then chief legal advisor to the Foreign Ministry, issued a legal opinion to the Israeli government concluding that colonizing the West Bank would violate the Geneva Conventions.
See http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/10/opinion/10gorenberg.html.
They are illegal. Period.
See http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/10/opinion/10gorenberg.html.
They are illegal. Period.
23
Settlement by settlement, Israel is building an apartheid state. It builds on Palestinian land, it exerts military and political control over the Palestinians, and then gives them no voice in the government, no rights under its laws and treats them like animals. Israel fools no one.
25
Settlement activities will continue to be the third rail which prevents peace. The United states should stop kicking the can down the road give Israeli government an ultimatum to halt settlements or there will be no military assistance. Netanyahu and the Likud Party are the main detractors of peace. I will presume that President Obama is disgusted with Netanyahu's hawkishness and his lack of commitment to peace, who wouldn't be? This has been an excruciating journey, "spanning the terms of eight U.S and. presidents since 1967". Only the torchbearers of war will embrace the likes Netanyahu and allow him continue to steer the Israeli people down the wrong path.
19
How about telling the Palestinians that they have to stop paying salaries to terrorists that are in jail or the families of suicide bombers? Or to actually want to sign a treaty and keep it? They have been offered 99% of what they say they have wanted at least 4 times in the past 15 years and rejected it. Or to admit that all those people that they have kept in refugee camps since 1948 are never going back to Israel. Let them be like the Hindu and Muslim refugees the partisan of India/Pakistan and settle where they are. No other refugee gets any of the privileges the Palestinians get. What makes them so special?
11
Apart from other unsubstantiated comments, where may we verify that the Palestinians have been offered 99% of what they wanted? And, as I noted earlier, can we see definitive statements and maps and not vague outlines, made by the Israeli government, unqualified and without subsequent contradiction by other Israeli politicians (ref the furore over Netanyahu's recent backtracking on his 2009 statements)?
1
How could we allow ourselves to be bullied by someone like Netanyahu? You have to visit the area of the West Bank to see what he has done in removing people from residences many have had for centuries. It is completely inhuman, totally without any regard for human dignity. No one will ever "win" the argument over whose land this was. It was occupied for centuries by both Jews and Arabs. One must examine the present context. Some division of land was agreed to through difficult negotiations, each of which have been violated by Israel, all in the name of an historical claim. That our Congress has leveraged itself to a Prime Minister who has broken every agreement is a crime against humanity.
29
Actually the Arabs haven't been there too long. When Mark Twain visited the Jerusalem and what is the west bank he found it all but deserted except for the Jews.
10
I have been told many times that Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East. (My Lebanese, Tunisian, Iranian, and Iraqi friends really get angry with me when I repeat what I've been told! And boy, my Palestinian colleagues in Greater Israel give me an earful on the matter!) This democracy, this shining light on a hill, for the sake of its security and ancient history, must forever control Judea and Samaria (and forever incarcerate those pesky Gazans inexplicably enraged ever since their ethnic cleansing in 1948), and maintain the status quo of ensuring that there can never be a just and lasting peace with its Palestinian neighbors/terror threats/separate-and-certainly-not-equal-subjects.
I was raised as a Christian Zionist as a youth, and have no greater shame than when I recall my open embrace of the racism that attended the lessons I received, including complete support for driving each and every Palestinian from their home and land.
I was raised as a Christian Zionist as a youth, and have no greater shame than when I recall my open embrace of the racism that attended the lessons I received, including complete support for driving each and every Palestinian from their home and land.
102
Yes, the territories are disputed. Trans-Jordan won the west bank in 1948. Israel won it in 1967. No talks, recognition, no peace. The world can argue with Israel all it wants, but until such time as there are at least two sides talking to one another, and rhetoric aside there is no one talking, nothing will happen but the status-quo. Maybe that's the way it will be for the foreseeable future, unless of course there is another war. I should add that while this is a popular dispute, there are a bunch of others around the world. How about covering those as well.
8
The NYT regularly covers many conflicts around the world. Why distract from the subject at hand? The US awards Israel about 3 billion dollars a year; US readers have a great deal of interest in learning more about what our tax dollars are being used for there. Just look at the spectacle of our Congress fawning over Netanyahu the other week; our political leaders have decided that we should bankroll whatever the Israeli government wants, no questions asked. I think that merits some special attention.
15
Granted a few are covered, but very few. I'm not trying to distract from anything. Merely pointing out a fact. Ratings have something to do with it. I'm sure we've both been reading this and other papers for years in part for its coverage. Your 2nd argument. Sure. $3B a year, most of it going to U.S. defense contractors. Much like other allies, Israel's alliance with the US is also strategic. I wonder what it would cost to place another base in the Middle East. Check the numbers over the last 13 years. I agree, Netanyahu should not have addressed Congress. No questions asked? Are we reading the same papers?
3
I certainly read this paper and others. Do you read any more widely than just US papers? Whilst the NYTimes may seem to be inherently biased, to many it delivers excuses in spades for some (not all) Israeli actions. The fact that it, along with other US news outlets, cover so little of other issues worldwide (according to your analysis) might lead you to conclude the need to read other papers. There are plenty of them and they're written in English!!
The laws of physics say that for every action there is a re-action. Israel believes it can ignore not only international law, but also this basic science law. Another clash of religion and science. I'll bet on science.
10
Always appeared that the Bibi government never wanted to give back 1 inch of the occupied territories. Actually US politicians get ruined if they refer to those areas as occupied. Its a shame but very obvious to see.
13
How can there be peace in the Holy Land when the Israeli settlement expansion and stranglehold on Palestinians continues? There can't be. Israel has no intention of honoring UN Resolutions 181 and 194 or the Oslo Peace Accords, which is what's caused the endless cycle of violence. The assassination of Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin by an Israeli hard-liner appears to have been Israel's last chance for peace. Rabbi Judah Magnes had predicted "endless bloodshed" from what he called "the Israeli war machine." The late historian Tony Judt saw Israel taking us all down "a path to ruin." And yet, they are considered to be anti-Semitic, like the Judaic prophet Jesus who wept for Jerusalem. His prophecy came true and could easily come true again when Israel has built their own embankment walls this time. It's historical and biblical, no Goliath or tyranny lasts long. Maybe if Israel signed the Non-Proliferation Treaty on reducing their nuclear arms they might be able to make peace with Iran to avoid a nuclear holocaust.
17
After looking at the pictures I think we should stop calling them "settlements" and instead call them "fortified suburbs." They're apparently not economies unto themselves. They look like, mainly, bedroom communities with heavy security. Where the people make a living I have no idea.
I'm sure there's bad faith on both sides; but that does not excuse or justify bad faith on either side. If Israel is truly God's Holy Land for his chosen people, you'd expect that the current "solution" wouldn't be good enough for anyone, even the Israelis.
I cannot see good in the future of Israel.
I'm sure there's bad faith on both sides; but that does not excuse or justify bad faith on either side. If Israel is truly God's Holy Land for his chosen people, you'd expect that the current "solution" wouldn't be good enough for anyone, even the Israelis.
I cannot see good in the future of Israel.
20
Let's call the settlements by their name which is "colonies" that are intended to serve as a springboard for Israeli annexation of the rest of the West Bank.
That annexation will surely mean, as in 1948, another tide of humanity forcibly expelled from their homes and fields and driven into neighboring countries. Or, possibly worse, a huge sullen population herded into Bantustans or Gazas and living permanently under the guns an searchlights of their Israeli jailers.
In the same endless cycle, Israel's brutal policies will breed more despair and more terrorists. Then Israel will point at the terrorists they have nurtured and say "We told you so. The Palestinans are unfit for statehood."
That annexation will surely mean, as in 1948, another tide of humanity forcibly expelled from their homes and fields and driven into neighboring countries. Or, possibly worse, a huge sullen population herded into Bantustans or Gazas and living permanently under the guns an searchlights of their Israeli jailers.
In the same endless cycle, Israel's brutal policies will breed more despair and more terrorists. Then Israel will point at the terrorists they have nurtured and say "We told you so. The Palestinans are unfit for statehood."
2
Winners write the history. Not - fair? or insert whatever word you wish - but the truth.
Israel won Arabs lost.
Russia annexed Polish land after ww2, Poland annexed German lands after ww2, Czechoslovakia was created out of Austrian-Hungarian empire, Northern Cyprus, etc etc.
Where is outrage or restitution on all of this?
Israel won Arabs lost.
Russia annexed Polish land after ww2, Poland annexed German lands after ww2, Czechoslovakia was created out of Austrian-Hungarian empire, Northern Cyprus, etc etc.
Where is outrage or restitution on all of this?
9
There's no history involved; nothing has ended yet. Israel does not behave like a state which thinks it won a lasting victory. Neither do the Palestinians.
1
Quite simply because after WWII the world establish laws to no longer allow the acquisition of land by force.
8
"Force" means going out to get it - Israel was attacked and occupied the land to secure her borders. Want the land? Stop initiating the wars, establish a government that recognizes her right to exist. The Arabs have been trying to grab Israel by force since her inception in 1947 and no one cries foul or illegal!
4
The world must certainly be "shaking it's head" in wonderment - not at the actions of Israel but the actions of the United States. We condemn and sanction Russia for their actions in the Ukraine and at the same time contribute money and protect Israel for their actions in the West Bank. I guess if you are going to be a hypocrite it is best to be the 800 pound gorilla in the room!
54
Time for US to cutoff all aid to Israel. US should not support criminals. That includes all sides in Palestine/Israel. They are all criminals -- we should leave them ALL to their own devices. Israel is of ZERO importance (except sentimental) to the US and its interests. I've gone from support of Israel to complete ambivalence, which pretty much sums up the views of many other friends of mine, and that trend is continuing. Netanyahu thinks he knows America/Americans -- he's dead wrong. He knows the prevailing views, circa 20 years ago. He's sabotaged that good will and is Israel's biggest mistake in its short history. Tune in again in 20 years... I'm right.
20
Palestinians fighting for their freedom are not criminals. That's just ridiculous.
24
Maybe this is why Netanyahu want to speak on the subject of Iran and to make them the potential bogey man that could rock the boat. Then no-one would address the issue of Palestine. All to simple but you cant help thinking maybe....
24
Exactly right. The Iran issue is a decoy.
10
So sad to see the squalor amid which the Palestinians live compared to the prosperity of the Israelis, and to realize that had the Palestinians not spent the past 70 years bent on the destruction of the Jews rather than the development of their own society they too could be living a fruitful life.
6
This is the beginning of the end of the Jewish state. Looking at the pictures, there is no way that there can be a two-state solution.
There can only be one state with one vote per person. Netanyahu and his predecessors are the best allies that the Palestinians could have asked for.
There can only be one state with one vote per person. Netanyahu and his predecessors are the best allies that the Palestinians could have asked for.
12
Everyone wants land. Real estate is scarce, waterfront is valuable, and the Israelis and Palestinians are both reproducing like rabbits. That sums up the conflict.
3
It wouldn't bother me so much if U.S. taxpayers weren't financing it, $4 billion p.a.
24
Plain and simple this is his Mr. :Netanyahu's plan:
http://www.bible-history.com/geography/maps/map_canaan_tribal_portions.html
That is all lands of Ancient Canaan will be part of Israel, to reform the "Promised Land". And he is willing to use military force, and other means (speech to Congress to affect US foreign policy) to do so.
Notice how much of Lebanon, Jordan, Syria and Egypt this encompasses. In other words, this is Israel's version of Manifest Destiny. Instead of native Americans being in the way, it is Arabs, Muslims and Christians that need to be assimilated or removed fro the greater good of Israel.
Small wonder, why some in the US, doe snot see a problem with this, because some of their ancestors did effectively the same thing, including broken treaties, in the 19th century.
Unfortunately, fro whatever reason, the UN, Europe and the US look the other way; if it involves Israel. However, if any other Middle Eastern nation had the same desires of territorial expansion, there would be an international crisis.
By the way, I hope Mr. Netanyahu is ready to defend Israel against ISIS/ISIL, because his ambitions will eventually bring direct conflict between them. Oh yeah, the US will have to bail Israel out, which is what Mr. Netanyahu expects.
http://www.bible-history.com/geography/maps/map_canaan_tribal_portions.html
That is all lands of Ancient Canaan will be part of Israel, to reform the "Promised Land". And he is willing to use military force, and other means (speech to Congress to affect US foreign policy) to do so.
Notice how much of Lebanon, Jordan, Syria and Egypt this encompasses. In other words, this is Israel's version of Manifest Destiny. Instead of native Americans being in the way, it is Arabs, Muslims and Christians that need to be assimilated or removed fro the greater good of Israel.
Small wonder, why some in the US, doe snot see a problem with this, because some of their ancestors did effectively the same thing, including broken treaties, in the 19th century.
Unfortunately, fro whatever reason, the UN, Europe and the US look the other way; if it involves Israel. However, if any other Middle Eastern nation had the same desires of territorial expansion, there would be an international crisis.
By the way, I hope Mr. Netanyahu is ready to defend Israel against ISIS/ISIL, because his ambitions will eventually bring direct conflict between them. Oh yeah, the US will have to bail Israel out, which is what Mr. Netanyahu expects.
13
Prior to the 1967 war an armored column could push through the West Bank and slice Israel in two parts in ten minutes. Note that each of the settlements has been designed as a small fortress. This entire project is a large defensive work designed to prevent a quick military collapse of the nation.
10
If you stand on the 1948 armistice line of the west bank you can see Tel Aviv and the Mediterranean from it. The runway at Ben Gurian airport ends at that boundary line. How can you expect the Israelis under the gun or rocket launcher like that?
3
You know what the Russians are doing in the Ukraine and the Iranians are doing with their nuclear program? The lies and deceit?
That's what Israel is doing in the West Bank.
The refusal to state things honestly is the first reason why negotiation doesn't work.
That's what Israel is doing in the West Bank.
The refusal to state things honestly is the first reason why negotiation doesn't work.
13
Israel sends yearly reports to the US stating exactly what it is doing.
2
mrestler
Reporting to the US just shares the lies and deceit. You DO realize that there is more to this world beyond the USA?
Reporting to the US just shares the lies and deceit. You DO realize that there is more to this world beyond the USA?
3
Netanyahu answers to the large number of Russian immigrants who are so prominent in far right parties including Likud. These Russians proclaim him for the building of settlements in the West Bank and East Jerusalem. Since the WH denounces these settlements it pleases the Russians that Netanyahu thumbs his nose at the WH, regardless of what that does for Israel.
6
Why two tiny Micronesian states? Let it be One State with equal rights. One secular state with equal civil rights for all in Ariel, Har Homa, Nablus, Hebron, Jerusalem
Equal civil rights and responsibilities regardless of race, religion, or national origin, desegregated public schools for all, one person one vote, equal access to opportunities, equal mobility. Enough is enough!
Equal civil rights and responsibilities regardless of race, religion, or national origin, desegregated public schools for all, one person one vote, equal access to opportunities, equal mobility. Enough is enough!
11
Tony, when does your country plan on letting Greenland become independent from Danish rule or is that something different because it's not Israel?
1
Come on people, it is time we gave the people of Israel a break. After all that was done to them over the past two thousand years, do you not think that they are justified in doing the same things that was done to them. Some call it pay back, even though the wrong people are at he receiving end.
I always lose a little more faith in humanity with ridiculous, insulting articles such as these. But then my faith in humanity is restored when I read the top comments and realize no one is buying the propaganda and lies any longer. I wish justice and reparations for the Palestinians. I wish for an end to the brutalities they have been suffering at the hands of Israel for so long.
46
Jordan lost the West Bank to Israel after invading Israel in the 1967 war. Jordan renounced its claim to the West Bank in 1988. It is not "occupied territory." Why should Jewish settlers be unwelcomed there?
6
Not so fast William:
AMMAN, Jordan, July 31 (1988)— King Hussein of Jordan tonight abandoned to the Palestine Liberation Organization any claim to the Israeli-occupied West Bank his Hashemite family ruled between 1948 and 1967. ''We respect the wish of the P.L.O., the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people, to secede from us in an independent Palestinian state,'' the King said
AMMAN, Jordan, July 31 (1988)— King Hussein of Jordan tonight abandoned to the Palestine Liberation Organization any claim to the Israeli-occupied West Bank his Hashemite family ruled between 1948 and 1967. ''We respect the wish of the P.L.O., the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people, to secede from us in an independent Palestinian state,'' the King said
8
William:
Where did you find this canard that the West Bank is not "occupied territory"?
Security Council Resolution 242 called for the withdrawal of Israeli armed forces "from territories occupied" in the Six-Day War. Israel endorsed Resolution 242. Look it up.
Where did you find this canard that the West Bank is not "occupied territory"?
Security Council Resolution 242 called for the withdrawal of Israeli armed forces "from territories occupied" in the Six-Day War. Israel endorsed Resolution 242. Look it up.
2
Unfortunately, the anti-Israel crowd continues to push the same myths when it comes to the settlements. First of all, Jews were always living there except for the time Jordan had the West Bank. Also, the cease-fire line of 1967 isn't an international boundary, it's just where the fighting from the Six Day War stopped. More importantly, there are dedicated green zones that do permit where the Israelis do have the right to live not to mention it wasn't even touched by the Palestinians even when the Israelis didn't build there. What so many also seem to forget is that UN Resolution 242 doesn't say how much land they must give nor does it ever imply a deadline. Seriously, claiming that the settlements prevent peace talks are just another excuse. Let's say that Bibi did agree to a unilateral withdraw of the West Bank just like how Sharon did for the Gaza Strip back in 2005. Would this really end everything or will Hamas just continue to make constant attacks as they always do? My feeling is that the PA will just look for another excuse not to make peace. After seeing what happened after leaving the Gaza Strip, nobody would want a repeat of that event and Hamas continues to launch attacks even years after Israel kept their end of the bargain, which shows how little they can be trusted. When the PA is finally ready to talk peace and put an end to terrorism, then a withdraw of the land can be made, and this shouldn't be some pre-condition, but rather a post-condition.
6
Isn't it amazing then that the US, the EU, and the UN (read the whole world) all use the term "Occupied Territories". When an "occupier" builds in an "occupied territory" it is a direct violation of the 4th Geneva Convention.
9
The major cause of tension and extremism, not only in the Middle East region but in the whole world, is Israeli Palestinian conflict.
Solving the Israeli-Palestinian conflict would take away much of the motivation for terrorism and the radicalization of Muslims in the World. Everyone's been saying that for years. We should start sending security bills to Tel-Aviv.
The mother of all terrorism in the World is the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.
There was no ISIS, Al Qaeda, Taliban, Hezbollah, Boko Haram,Muslim Brotherhood or even Hamas before the invention of Israel. Israel was created by Irgun and Gangstern Zionist terrorists, led by Manahem Begin who later became Israel’s P.M.
Solving the Israeli-Palestinian conflict would take away much of the motivation for terrorism and the radicalization of Muslims in the World. Everyone's been saying that for years. We should start sending security bills to Tel-Aviv.
The mother of all terrorism in the World is the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.
There was no ISIS, Al Qaeda, Taliban, Hezbollah, Boko Haram,Muslim Brotherhood or even Hamas before the invention of Israel. Israel was created by Irgun and Gangstern Zionist terrorists, led by Manahem Begin who later became Israel’s P.M.
20
You need to read your history books. Zionism started in mid 19th century due to growing European anti Semitism. Begin was one guy with a small paramilitary that threw some weight around in the war for independence but Stern, overall was a small player. As for modern muslim extremism, we know what would happen if we cut Israel off...they will be coming for Europe and the West next.... they already are.
5
I try to be open-minded, but every time I read about settlements where the men do nothing but 'full-time Torah studies' - and the women apparently do everything else - something has gone WAY amiss..
Men doing nothing productive at all, while also conveniently avoiding National Service - is it any wonder that this stokes prejudice?
Why not 'full time Navel Button Studies'? Hard to see the difference, or difference from Madrassas
Men doing nothing productive at all, while also conveniently avoiding National Service - is it any wonder that this stokes prejudice?
Why not 'full time Navel Button Studies'? Hard to see the difference, or difference from Madrassas
25
The idea that the creator of the Universe within which there are multi billions of galaxies would designate certain lands on planet Earth to a tribe of human primates is so unbelievable and incredibly arrogant that there exist no proper words to even begin to attempt to discredit such utter nonsense.
24
The Geneva Convention and international law explicitly prohibits transfer and settlement of civilians on lands captured during war time. It also prohibits the collective punishment of civilians populations. The Israeli government has systematically and routinely violated these provisions over several decades. The Israelis have gotten away with this, because regardless of their actions, the U.S. government regularly supports Israel financially and diplomatically in international forums ; therefore, Israel has absolutely no incentive to stop its outrageous actions against the Palestinian people. The U.S. needs to stop giving Israel a blank check and we must stop turning a blind eye toward Israeli human rights abuses against the Palestinians. We need to stop the hypocritical U.S. government double standard on upholding human rights. When will Israel be held accountable?
44
The US will not stop funding israel because of the wealthy lobby, AIPAC! Every member of Congress receives campaign funds from this group so they are all beholden and cannot challenge their wishes!
I do think that Americans may finally be waking up to the tragedy that has unfolded in the occupied territories and may demand some changes.
Hopefully, the absurd funding by US taxpayers of this travesty will end soon!
I do think that Americans may finally be waking up to the tragedy that has unfolded in the occupied territories and may demand some changes.
Hopefully, the absurd funding by US taxpayers of this travesty will end soon!
13
The official data from Israel’s Central Bureau of Statistics, shows housing construction in West Bank settlements fell by 52% last year. Moreover, throughout Netanyahu’s six years 2009-2014 housing starts in the settlements was 19 percent lower than it was in 2003-2008, under prime ministers Ariel Sharon and Ehud Olmert.
This violates the popular perception of Netanyahu as egregiously backing massive settlement expansion. Obama declared that “we have seen more aggressive settlement construction over the last couple years than we’ve seen in a very long time.” That belied the facts. And Rudoren and Ashkenas who can read the truth in the official Israeli statistics, stick with that lie.
Too many journalists and diplomats stick to a preconceived narrative that ignores contradictory facts. Netanyahu is a“right-winger,” so he must be building massively in the settlements. Netanyahu is “hardline,” so he must be to blame for the failure of peace talks, even if in reality–as was evident from American officials’ own testimony at the time and confirmed by a leaked document just last week–Netanyahu was prepared to make dramatic concessions, while Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas refused to budge.
I took the above information from: https://www.commentarymagazine.com/2015/03/11/settlement-data-once-again...
This violates the popular perception of Netanyahu as egregiously backing massive settlement expansion. Obama declared that “we have seen more aggressive settlement construction over the last couple years than we’ve seen in a very long time.” That belied the facts. And Rudoren and Ashkenas who can read the truth in the official Israeli statistics, stick with that lie.
Too many journalists and diplomats stick to a preconceived narrative that ignores contradictory facts. Netanyahu is a“right-winger,” so he must be building massively in the settlements. Netanyahu is “hardline,” so he must be to blame for the failure of peace talks, even if in reality–as was evident from American officials’ own testimony at the time and confirmed by a leaked document just last week–Netanyahu was prepared to make dramatic concessions, while Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas refused to budge.
I took the above information from: https://www.commentarymagazine.com/2015/03/11/settlement-data-once-again...
6
Boehner's Bibi boo-boo. I pray that Israel ousts Netanyahu and returns to decency and honor. And I am every bit as Jewish as Bibi.
19
Israel behaved honorably WHEN???? In 1948, when they terrorized 700,000 people from their homes? When Golda Meir said "there's no such thing as "Palestinians--they don't exist?" When they massacred 20,000 people (virtually all civilian) in Lebanon in 1982? When they subsequently blanketed all of South Lebanon in millions of cluster bombs in the last 24 hours of the war before the ceasefire, an act of almost unthinkable depravity, even by Israeli standards?
22
Voiceofamerica, Israel only did those acts when fighting in a war and they only hit civilians only by accident, while Hamas is hitting civilians on purpose, which shows who are really the terrorists here.
3
Tal Barzilai tells us "Israel ..... only hit civilians only by accident,."
In 2008 the government of Israel adopted a doctrine called the “Dahiyya Doctrine” as reported by Haaretz in October 2008. The doctrine is the comprehensive destruction of areas in their entirety and the use of disproportionate force as punitive actions whenever there is violent resistance. According to the former chief of the Israeli army’s general staff the idea of maximum civilian death and destruction is to brand in the Palestinian consciousness the fearsome might of the Israeli Army.
This doctrine of deliberate attack on civilians and civilian property was first applied in Lebanon, then again 3 times in Gaza.
In 2008 the government of Israel adopted a doctrine called the “Dahiyya Doctrine” as reported by Haaretz in October 2008. The doctrine is the comprehensive destruction of areas in their entirety and the use of disproportionate force as punitive actions whenever there is violent resistance. According to the former chief of the Israeli army’s general staff the idea of maximum civilian death and destruction is to brand in the Palestinian consciousness the fearsome might of the Israeli Army.
This doctrine of deliberate attack on civilians and civilian property was first applied in Lebanon, then again 3 times in Gaza.
4
I find it incredibly sad to see these beautiful places and contrast them in my mind's eye with the decimation that is current Gaza. It is very hard to understand the thinking that makes such inequity acceptable.
20
A theme is consistent throughout a lot of these comments, Israel needs to give back the Palestinian land.. in order to give back to someone its has to have belonged to somebody else , in the case of these land used to build the "settlements " there was no country that it belonged too. As part of a negotiation you may agree to give away but give back is factually inaccurate . unfortunately this is repeated over and over which at best leads me to believe there is a massive need for education and at worst it smells of out right hatred by the writers .
4
TADE,
ah, this land belonged to nobody else, it is OK for Israel to steal it and oppress it's occupants? One more thing, I for one don't hate Israel, it is a beautiful land with wonderful people, but I have disdain for their oppressive occupation. That now makes me an anti Semite, right?
ah, this land belonged to nobody else, it is OK for Israel to steal it and oppress it's occupants? One more thing, I for one don't hate Israel, it is a beautiful land with wonderful people, but I have disdain for their oppressive occupation. That now makes me an anti Semite, right?
3
Well Mr. Netanyahu, what's your next move now? You have isolated Israel and America enough! During your tenure, the word diplomacy has not existed, haranguing everyone, trying to appear as a “macho” before the whole world but mainly in Israel where you need to have a bright popularity and acceptance. Basically you are bankrupt of ideas and bankrupt of scruples. Israel needs someone else right now and you are not the one!
12
What part of illegal don't they understand?
13
Isn't it schocking that Putin uses Bibis behavior as a justification for Russia's annexation in the Ukraine.
7
The West heavily sanctions Russia for the annexation of Crimea (Crimea's choice) while the West turns a blind eye to Israel's annexations in the West Bank and Syria (no Palestinian/Syrian choice).
10
How many Russians live in the United States and vote?
What makes me sad is that conservative Christians in my own family and I have talked about this and their answer is that all the Palestinians should just move to Jordan and just get up and leave. I think there is a lot of people who look at the Palestinians, like they should just get up and leave......
6
"The Israeli leader’s settlement policy resembles his predecessors’, but it is a march toward permanence at a time when prospects for peace are few."
I defy anyone who is not in on it to explain this sentence to the other six billion humans. "but"?
Excuses for being persistently wrong grow harder over time when the truth is, as all outsiders see, it is just wrong. But but but but but but. Yeah yeah.
I defy anyone who is not in on it to explain this sentence to the other six billion humans. "but"?
Excuses for being persistently wrong grow harder over time when the truth is, as all outsiders see, it is just wrong. But but but but but but. Yeah yeah.
5
Those who believed Netanyahu’s hyperboles about nuclear Iran should note his hyperboles in trying to get elected:
"If the gap between the Likud and Labour continues to grow, a week from now Herzog and Livni will become the prime ministers of Israel in rotation, with the backing of the Arab parties."
“[If we don’t win, it will] cause such a monumental shift in policy that it is a danger, and anyone who wants to stop it has to vote Likud to narrow the gap."
We’re on to you Bibi.
"If the gap between the Likud and Labour continues to grow, a week from now Herzog and Livni will become the prime ministers of Israel in rotation, with the backing of the Arab parties."
“[If we don’t win, it will] cause such a monumental shift in policy that it is a danger, and anyone who wants to stop it has to vote Likud to narrow the gap."
We’re on to you Bibi.
9
By any definition Israel is grabbing larger parcels of fertile land in the West Bank leaving the Palestinians without their homes and livelihoods. Settlers are continually attacking Palestinians; stoning children on their way to school, setting dogs on them with no redress from the police. The article omitted the numerous occasions when squatters have walked into a Palestinian home and thrown the residents into the street. The police are not interested.
Netanyahu is encouraging the extremists move into ever growing settlements. When he calls on Danish and French Jews “to return home” it's normally to the West Bank. At the same time Israel has a chronic housing shortage, soaring cost of living yet they manage to spend most of their budget into settlement expansion and the military. Is this why 9,300 Israeli's have moved to Berlin and the Russians are leaving for a better life in Canada.
Israel, and America by its funding of Israel are responsible for the moral outrages taking place. Both countries have no moral capital left in the eyes of the world when America can impose sanctions on one country but continually veto the actions of another.
http://www.wrmea.org/2001-january-february/extremism-in-israel-is-fueled...
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/feb/25/binyamin-netanyahu-criticis...
Netanyahu is encouraging the extremists move into ever growing settlements. When he calls on Danish and French Jews “to return home” it's normally to the West Bank. At the same time Israel has a chronic housing shortage, soaring cost of living yet they manage to spend most of their budget into settlement expansion and the military. Is this why 9,300 Israeli's have moved to Berlin and the Russians are leaving for a better life in Canada.
Israel, and America by its funding of Israel are responsible for the moral outrages taking place. Both countries have no moral capital left in the eyes of the world when America can impose sanctions on one country but continually veto the actions of another.
http://www.wrmea.org/2001-january-february/extremism-in-israel-is-fueled...
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/feb/25/binyamin-netanyahu-criticis...
22
This man is a warmonger. He seeks confrontation instead of conflict resolution. No wonder the sentiments of the world community are more and more anti Israel. Interesting how he called all Israelis back home after the incidents in France and Denmark- maybe that is an option that should be explored.
15
He wasn't forcing Jews to come to Israel, he was just giving them the option as the choice will be up to them, not him.
3
Bibi is now the GOP 'think-tank' for Foreign Policy. Before he leaves the Capital chamber they let him lick a stamp on an 'open letter' to Iran! Bibi, who garnered about 30% of the popular vote in Israel. Bibi, who made the same fear-mongering speech in the mid-90's at the UN. Bibi, who tells European Jews to pack there bags and flee Paris and Berlin and move to Israel. He can't plant re-bar and pour concrete fast enough. An unemployed man in a valley looks up to a ridge-line that his family has farmed for generations, and sees a gated community of new homes that he is forbidden from, and teaches his children to hate. An employed man on a ridge-line looks down on that valley and teaches his children God meant for them to be on this hill forever. How will this bring any peace in the Middle East?
13
Netanyahu has made it clear that the occupation will never end. While continually building settlements he has made it clear that there will never be a viable Palestinian state.
America should hang its head in shame with its $8 million a day aid package and its impotency to stop the continual land grabs.
http://972mag.com/netanyahu-clarifies-the-occupation-will-last-forever/9...
America should hang its head in shame with its $8 million a day aid package and its impotency to stop the continual land grabs.
http://972mag.com/netanyahu-clarifies-the-occupation-will-last-forever/9...
23
Perhaps Jewish settlers and Palestinians could eventually co-exist. Wonderful story and photos .
5
God did not give jews the land they live on
But the UN did. What kind of delusional israel is? The UN divided the land in 1949.
But the UN did. What kind of delusional israel is? The UN divided the land in 1949.
8
And one side accepted that division. The other side went to war...are there do-overs routinely allowed in wars?
2
netanyahu is the problem
Netanyahu has failed to integrate Israel in the region with the 20 Arab countries. Let us be like the nations and elect a new Prime Minister who will seek peace and pursue it until Israel can fully trade with all Arab and Muslim States. (Arab League proposal in 2002).
Netanyahu has failed to integrate Israel in the region with the 20 Arab countries. Let us be like the nations and elect a new Prime Minister who will seek peace and pursue it until Israel can fully trade with all Arab and Muslim States. (Arab League proposal in 2002).
15
The reason there haven't been negotiations is because there is no one to negotiate with on the Palestinian side. Hamas is against any negotiations, any peace with Israel as a founding principle - it's in their charter. Their approach is jihad including thousands of rockets aimed at Israeli cities. So, the settlement building has gone on, as the article shows - the difference is there is no chance right now for peace negotiations. I don't blame Israel for that. When Arafat was in control, at least they had someone who would talk - even at the risk of his own life.
The West Bank is a disputed territory in my opinion, not withstanding what some biased international court says or what anti-Israel "world leaders" have to say. It hasn't been US policy to call those settlements illegal. The fact is that the last time there was legal status attached to that land it was by the League of Nations, and that status is that the land was TBD. Because the UN Partition plan of 1947 was rejected by the Arabs, the West Bank and Gaza was never assigned to a sovereign country. And because of the 1922 League of Nations mandate, both Jews and Arabs are allowed to settle there. So to say Jews can't live there is not on solid legal ground.
Even if the land were assigned to a future Palestine, why wouldn't Jews be allowed to live in that new country? There are Arabs in Israel, but Jews can't live in Palestine? Isn't that a little, I dunno, Anti-Semitic? Palestine shall be Judenfrei?
The West Bank is a disputed territory in my opinion, not withstanding what some biased international court says or what anti-Israel "world leaders" have to say. It hasn't been US policy to call those settlements illegal. The fact is that the last time there was legal status attached to that land it was by the League of Nations, and that status is that the land was TBD. Because the UN Partition plan of 1947 was rejected by the Arabs, the West Bank and Gaza was never assigned to a sovereign country. And because of the 1922 League of Nations mandate, both Jews and Arabs are allowed to settle there. So to say Jews can't live there is not on solid legal ground.
Even if the land were assigned to a future Palestine, why wouldn't Jews be allowed to live in that new country? There are Arabs in Israel, but Jews can't live in Palestine? Isn't that a little, I dunno, Anti-Semitic? Palestine shall be Judenfrei?
51
Hold the Antisemitic line please, it's becoming meaningless when you use it to justify gross abuse of people who are actually, themselves, Semitic.
5
Nonsense from top to bottom. Hamas has agreed to 2 states on the 67 borders and has gone so far as to say they will not oppose ANY deal with Israel negotiated by any party, so long as it is approved by a majority of Palestinians in a referendum. Can't get any fairer than that.
The entire world (including Hamas), backed by international law, stands on one side; Israel and the US on the other.
The entire world (including Hamas), backed by international law, stands on one side; Israel and the US on the other.
4
>
One, you negotiate with your enemies not your friends.
Two, Netanyahu does not want peace. Peace would require set borders and no more expansion.
One, you negotiate with your enemies not your friends.
Two, Netanyahu does not want peace. Peace would require set borders and no more expansion.
4
People need to update. Israel was once the focus of our Middle Eastern strategy and the fate of the Palestinians was at the heart of Arab policies. That time is long gone. Terrorism has changed the area. ISIS, Iraq, Syria, Iran, and Yemen are now front and center to our Mideast policy. Civilian deaths throughout the area are a regular occurrence. Such deaths in Palestine and Israel are no more important. You can get all worked up about Israel's settlement policy, But most of us understand that it's not that important to America's interests anymore, and that what happens in Tikrit is more important..
2
michjas says; Terrorism has changed the area. ISIS, Iraq, Syria, Iran, and Yemen are now front and center to our Mideast policy.
The mother of all terrorism in the World is the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.
There was no ISIS, Al Qaeda, Taliban, Hezbollah, Boko Haram,Muslim Brotherhood or even Hamas before the invention of Israel. Israel was created by Irgun and Gangstern Zionist terrorists, led by Manahem Begin who later became Israel’s P.M.
The mother of all terrorism in the World is the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.
There was no ISIS, Al Qaeda, Taliban, Hezbollah, Boko Haram,Muslim Brotherhood or even Hamas before the invention of Israel. Israel was created by Irgun and Gangstern Zionist terrorists, led by Manahem Begin who later became Israel’s P.M.
7
Vote for Herzog
11
To expect a peace process to be taken seriously by two sides with little to gain from it and entrenched in conflict is less than logical. Peace cannot be bought by money or land. When peace, real peace, is achieved, 'settlements' will be able to safely stay right where there are - no matter what flag the administering government flies.
Three options
We have, IMHO three options. 1) The illegal settlers return to where they came from. 2) They become Palestinian citizens, renouncing Israeli citizenship. Or 3) they remain but have ID cards and are subject to stops at checkpoints like the Palestinians have endured in the last 65 years.
We have, IMHO three options. 1) The illegal settlers return to where they came from. 2) They become Palestinian citizens, renouncing Israeli citizenship. Or 3) they remain but have ID cards and are subject to stops at checkpoints like the Palestinians have endured in the last 65 years.
8
On the one hand, there must be genuine work towards a positive solution that enables Israeli and Palestinian people to harmoniously coexist. This is essential to social justice, promoting positive human relationships, pluralism, good will, and the soul of what makes us all human. On the other hand, it is an awful lot to ask one group of people to give land to another group of people who wants to kill them. So long as the sole Palestinian voices are Hamas and the P.A., who are not interested in a peace that enables Israel to continue to exist, Israel as a state is obligated to do what is in its own best interests, and those of its citizens.
36
"So long as the sole Palestinian voices are Hamas and the P.A., who are not interested in a peace that enables Israel to continue to exist,"
The Palestinians have officially recognized the State of Israel in several past agreements. In addition, in the spring of 2014 when Hamas officially joined the unity government with Fatah, it accepted all previous agreements and adopted all the principles set out by the US and the Quartet for peace negotiations with, you guessed it, "the State of Israel”.
The Palestinians have officially recognized the State of Israel in several past agreements. In addition, in the spring of 2014 when Hamas officially joined the unity government with Fatah, it accepted all previous agreements and adopted all the principles set out by the US and the Quartet for peace negotiations with, you guessed it, "the State of Israel”.
3
The Israelis aren't being asked to "give" land to the Palestinians. They're being asked not to "take" it.
4
With hindsight it will be proved centuries from now that the biggest mistake of the 20th century was allowing statehood for Israel out of the guilt and ashes of WWII.
We will pay for that error in blood and lives for centuries to come or until Israel becomes something other than a Jewish state.
We will pay for that error in blood and lives for centuries to come or until Israel becomes something other than a Jewish state.
18
Considering the human costs of the conflict have been so terrible, why would Israel allow a radical minority of its population to exacerbate tensions by stealing land and squatting on it? It's illegal. This speaks to the low quality of Bibi Netanyahu's character and government. If Hamas sent "settlers" into Israeli territory, they'd be blown to bits. The level of irrationality in the Arab-Israeli dispute often obscures that some issues are simple. The squatter colonies are illegal. There is no gray area here to beat around, just like Hamas use of crude rockets to indiscriminately hit residential areas is illegal. Come on, man.
9
The Jewish settlements will mark the borders of the two states solutions.
More and larger Jewish settlements - this border will be more clear to everyone.
Notice that there are Palestinian settlements, including illegal ones funded by the EU. Israel should let the Palestinians to build new settlements only on their side of the west bank. Illegal Palestinian settlements on the Israeli side should be demolished.
More and larger Jewish settlements - this border will be more clear to everyone.
Notice that there are Palestinian settlements, including illegal ones funded by the EU. Israel should let the Palestinians to build new settlements only on their side of the west bank. Illegal Palestinian settlements on the Israeli side should be demolished.
5
Q says; Israel should let the Palestinians to build new settlements only on their side of the west bank. Illegal Palestinian settlements on the Israeli side should be demolished.
I have a better solution. Every one returns to where he came from.
I have a better solution. Every one returns to where he came from.
6
After the 1967 boundary is confirmed the Palestinians will decide what land swaps will occur. It will be their option.
1
Tony wrote: "Every one returns to where he came from".
Are you asking the Jews to return to Judea and the Arabs to return to Arabia Tony? Unfortunately this is not a practical solution.
We, Jews and Arabs, should stop fighting over lands. Human lives are more important than land. The borders I support for the two state solutions match the current demography and are the minimun required for Israel for its long term security. They include all the bigger Jewish towns within Israel, and all the big Palestinian towns within the future Palestine.
Are you asking the Jews to return to Judea and the Arabs to return to Arabia Tony? Unfortunately this is not a practical solution.
We, Jews and Arabs, should stop fighting over lands. Human lives are more important than land. The borders I support for the two state solutions match the current demography and are the minimun required for Israel for its long term security. They include all the bigger Jewish towns within Israel, and all the big Palestinian towns within the future Palestine.
2
There is no case to be made that the settlements contribute to Israeli security, quite the contrary. Netanyahu favors settlements not because he wants a secure nation, but because he wants to remain prime minister.
One has to look to the structure of the Israeli parliamentary system, which gives disproportionate power to small, sometimes extremist religious parties to understand the history of these pernicious settlements. The many Israelis who oppose the settlements are pretty much stuck with them. What's harder to understand is U.S. implicit support for, or at least tolerance of, the settlements, but I suppose that comes down to our own political system, specifically how elections are funded.
One has to look to the structure of the Israeli parliamentary system, which gives disproportionate power to small, sometimes extremist religious parties to understand the history of these pernicious settlements. The many Israelis who oppose the settlements are pretty much stuck with them. What's harder to understand is U.S. implicit support for, or at least tolerance of, the settlements, but I suppose that comes down to our own political system, specifically how elections are funded.
14
Where are the voices of the Palestinians? Where is the story of how the colonies, and their concomitant infrastructure (i.e., roads), cut the Palestinian communities into isolated bantustans? A very disappointing article.
17
The Palestinians are a kidnapped society
We are incapable of understanding the suffering of a society, its cry, and the future of an entire nation that has been kidnapped by us. Where is Obama's sympathy for Palestinian mothers & fathers who have lost children to the violent Israeli occupation? Or indeed, who have sons and daughters and husbands in Israeli Jails whose only crime often has been protesting the violent and illegal Israeli occupation....Don't just reach out to Israelis ...call the illegal occupation and settlements out in the Palestinian Territories....People are united around the world today....this is the root cause and it must go.
We are incapable of understanding the suffering of a society, its cry, and the future of an entire nation that has been kidnapped by us. Where is Obama's sympathy for Palestinian mothers & fathers who have lost children to the violent Israeli occupation? Or indeed, who have sons and daughters and husbands in Israeli Jails whose only crime often has been protesting the violent and illegal Israeli occupation....Don't just reach out to Israelis ...call the illegal occupation and settlements out in the Palestinian Territories....People are united around the world today....this is the root cause and it must go.
12
This article outlines the egregious land grabs that are still being conducted on a daily basis. These settlements are all entirely illegal according to the United Nations. Are we supposed to lament the difficulty with which the Israeli's steal land? (I am referring to the quote in the article about how upset they were with the 10 month freeze on settlement building)
This is illegal activity. The 10 month freeze simply did not go far enough! These are people protected by one of the most powerful armies in the world, living on land annexed illegally. This article also shows you that the settlers' claim to this land is fundamentally religious . These settlers view themselves as manifesting the will of God, that to steal this land is religiously important work. This kind of extremism is often hard to detect, but just as insidious.
This is illegal activity. The 10 month freeze simply did not go far enough! These are people protected by one of the most powerful armies in the world, living on land annexed illegally. This article also shows you that the settlers' claim to this land is fundamentally religious . These settlers view themselves as manifesting the will of God, that to steal this land is religiously important work. This kind of extremism is often hard to detect, but just as insidious.
201
When the 10 month "settlement freeze" went into effect, it provided Mr. Abbas a prime opportunity to negotiate a solution to the conflict. Had Mr. Abbas not squandered nearly 9 months of that "freeze," and made significant progress in negotiations, he would have had a solid argument for extending the "freeze." To the detriment of the Palestinians, he squandered that opportunity and when he began negotiations very late in that period, he had accomplished nothing substantive on which to base an argument for an extension. He who hesitates is lost!
2
We can all rest easy knowing we will uproot Jews and place them in a tent community.There is something called natural growth which all healthy countries experience.The disputed land you refer to according to the laws of the international community,can be annexed by Israel,at any time,now that the 2 state solution is dead.So,Israel can build all it wants to fill it's need for it's population.By the way,there is an all palestinian city being built as well,to house 40,000 people,what shall we do about that?
What this article and most people unfortunately miss, is that this land is actually Jewish land - that has been occupied by the Palestinians, British, Turks, Romans, etc. This is not my opinion -- it's historical fact that can be looked up in any high school history book. (The Assyrians and Romans invaded the two Jewish kingdoms on that land ...)
Therefore, the whole premise of this article and those that sympathise with it is based on a mistaken notion that the Israelis are somehow 'taking up' land that does not belong to them. Rather, they are essentially 'giving up' land in all areas that they have already agreed to or will agree to cede to the Palestinians.
Therefore, the whole premise of this article and those that sympathise with it is based on a mistaken notion that the Israelis are somehow 'taking up' land that does not belong to them. Rather, they are essentially 'giving up' land in all areas that they have already agreed to or will agree to cede to the Palestinians.
6
Much of California belongs to Native Americans.
2
Netanyahu is bowing to the pressure from the extreme religious fanatics. This is not the way to resolve the conflict. It is wrong headed. He is jeopardizing the security of the entire country.
10
The great people of Israel, many of whom survived the horrors of the Holocaust, now have a warmonger for a leader. Peace will continue to elude Israel as long as they are led by someone whose soul is dead.
The financial loss to US because of this jingoist is two-fold: Our hard-earned tax dollars are used to support
--the building of settlements and the bigoted policies of Netanyahu and
--wars such as the Iraq War (4000 US and 10000 Iraqi civilian lives and $4 trillion in war expense), war against ISIS (which thanks Netanyahu for its new recruits) and the GOP- and Netanyahu-sponsored imminent war with Iran (how many more lives, how many trillions of dollars more expense)?
Netanyahu, I can't speak for Israel but you are the worst thing that happened to the US.
The financial loss to US because of this jingoist is two-fold: Our hard-earned tax dollars are used to support
--the building of settlements and the bigoted policies of Netanyahu and
--wars such as the Iraq War (4000 US and 10000 Iraqi civilian lives and $4 trillion in war expense), war against ISIS (which thanks Netanyahu for its new recruits) and the GOP- and Netanyahu-sponsored imminent war with Iran (how many more lives, how many trillions of dollars more expense)?
Netanyahu, I can't speak for Israel but you are the worst thing that happened to the US.
30
Achievements of Bibi
Look at this Netanyahu government's achievement. Bad relations with the US. Bad relations with Turkey. Bad relations with Europe. Rise of anti-Semitism after Gaza. Bad relations with the Palestinians. And finally, what peace process?
Look at this Netanyahu government's achievement. Bad relations with the US. Bad relations with Turkey. Bad relations with Europe. Rise of anti-Semitism after Gaza. Bad relations with the Palestinians. And finally, what peace process?
103
Israel is responsible for the Iraq war? I thought it was Bush and his buddies.
3
Really? Turkey? The Turks have a Islamist pro Hamas Government. There would not be good relations with Israel in any case. Rise of anti-Semitism? Oh, so the Jews are responsible for anti-Semitism? I don't think so.
Relations with the Palestinians - peace process? I guess in your world the Palestinians have nothing to do with the situation?
Relations with the Palestinians - peace process? I guess in your world the Palestinians have nothing to do with the situation?
2
American Tax dollars paying for new homes and swimming pools for setllers in an occupied land. Remind me of when the United States used to be the "beacon of justice and peace" in the world?
27
Simply, America can´t feed its poor, but it can fund Israeli wars by giving 6B$$ a year. And I ask why this very special treatment?
13
Those settlers are pawns, nothing more. Nobody's pretending that they even participate in or enrich the country. Conveniently, they are willing to imagine that their marginal society has magical rights to be there.
The entire necessity for the settlements comes from concepts in the more secular society, concepts that seem to be rapidly shifting.
Israel - as a country - not as the God-given home for the Jews - is in much danger from political interests elsewhere, and there's no good way to predict if that means economic isolation or worse, and when. They are stuck in an unstable equilibrium mostly of their own making. Democracy may be their very worst challenge, since we are unlikely to send troops to overturn results of a free election. But those settlers are not concerned, I'll bet.
The entire necessity for the settlements comes from concepts in the more secular society, concepts that seem to be rapidly shifting.
Israel - as a country - not as the God-given home for the Jews - is in much danger from political interests elsewhere, and there's no good way to predict if that means economic isolation or worse, and when. They are stuck in an unstable equilibrium mostly of their own making. Democracy may be their very worst challenge, since we are unlikely to send troops to overturn results of a free election. But those settlers are not concerned, I'll bet.
2
American excessive backing to Israel against the Arab and Muslim World is the cause of 9/11 and other attacks :
Americans to a large extent have been insulated from the terror and misery resulting from the war "responding" to 9/11 (and the lies of Bush and zionist Cheney, et al).
After reviewing the events at the Boston Marathon in my mind's eye at bedtime last night I prayed for the victims, their families, bystanders, the responders, police & fire personnel and medical professionals caring for the dead, wounded, and traumatized.
After a while I thought about countries like Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan and Palestine specially Gaza, where hundreds of thousands are dead or have experienced this, sometimes on a daily basis, and are still experiencing it, but on much larger scale. They have lost their family members, their health and wholeness, homes, livelihoods, and their whole way of life.
Americans to a large extent have been insulated from the terror and misery resulting from the war "responding" to 9/11 (and the lies of Bush and zionist Cheney, et al).
After reviewing the events at the Boston Marathon in my mind's eye at bedtime last night I prayed for the victims, their families, bystanders, the responders, police & fire personnel and medical professionals caring for the dead, wounded, and traumatized.
After a while I thought about countries like Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan and Palestine specially Gaza, where hundreds of thousands are dead or have experienced this, sometimes on a daily basis, and are still experiencing it, but on much larger scale. They have lost their family members, their health and wholeness, homes, livelihoods, and their whole way of life.
9
The no. 1 myth is the labeling of “settlements” as the primary obstacle to peace. The true barrier is the same one it has always been : the so-called “right of return” – and the Palestinian’s refusal to recognize Israel’s right to exist as the nation-state of the Jewish people. The Arabs waged war on Israel DECADES BEFORE there was a single “settlement”.
For almost all of Israel's existence before 2001, the left dominated the government. Why did it change? The leftist government offered Arafat virtually EVERYTHING the Palestinian Authority demanded. Arafat's response was to launch the worst wave of terrorism in Israel's history. That destroyed the left. Olmert went even further in 2008. Abbas simply walked away.
Until the "moderate" Palestinians stop glorifying "martyrs" of terror and mass murder, and stop their media, schools, and mosques from educating their people to hate, the people of Israel will continue to believe there is no true partner for peace.
The “moderate” PA does not even include the state of Israel on their maps, for heaven's sake!
We hear little about this in the NY Times.
Why is the NY Times OBSESSED with "settlements"?
For almost all of Israel's existence before 2001, the left dominated the government. Why did it change? The leftist government offered Arafat virtually EVERYTHING the Palestinian Authority demanded. Arafat's response was to launch the worst wave of terrorism in Israel's history. That destroyed the left. Olmert went even further in 2008. Abbas simply walked away.
Until the "moderate" Palestinians stop glorifying "martyrs" of terror and mass murder, and stop their media, schools, and mosques from educating their people to hate, the people of Israel will continue to believe there is no true partner for peace.
The “moderate” PA does not even include the state of Israel on their maps, for heaven's sake!
We hear little about this in the NY Times.
Why is the NY Times OBSESSED with "settlements"?
6
Encouraging that you support the right of Palestinians to return to the homes they were terrorized out of. Anything less would be hypocrisy raised to the nth level.
7
Again, they are not settlements, they are colonies; Israel colonized "Israel proper" before 1948 and it is now colonizing the West Bank. Israel has always been about colonizing the land and expelling or forcing out the native inhabitants.
Israel has never had any intent of giving back any portion of the West Bank to the Palestinians. That is more than obvious by Israel's massive colonization project.
What this article should have gone into more is Israel's economic strangulation of the Palestinians.
Israel has never had any intent of giving back any portion of the West Bank to the Palestinians. That is more than obvious by Israel's massive colonization project.
What this article should have gone into more is Israel's economic strangulation of the Palestinians.
37
I can almost say the same thing about any other country known for doing this. Why do you just single out Israel when so many others have done the same? The US has a long history of expelling the Native Americans when they were moving further west, but you don't seem to condemn that a lot. Maybe if the US give back Mexico the land they took from them in the Mexican War back in 1848, they won't have to worry about them sneaking in there anymore, which is probably because they feel that they still have connections of living there before that said war since it originally did belong to Mexico. Unlike the entire southwestern corner of the US, the West Bank was never made part of Israel officially, just a disputed territory. Another irony is that you don't say anything about Jordan colonizing the West Bank, which is what they did, and showed little or no respect to the Palestinians. Then again, they aren't the so Jews, so maybe that's why let alone not condemning them when they had to respond to Palestinian extremists back in 1970, while you will do that a lot on Israel for doing something similar.
2
One of the writers here makes an emphatic statement that this is land that belongs to the Jewish people - period. What is the evidence that this is, indeed, the case? By history? When the Israeli returned to Palestine after their time in Egypt there were other tribes in the very same land they claim is theirs. These other tribes could make the same claim as the Israelis. A number of students in my Middle East class ask me who gave the Jews this land? Did the Bible give them that land? Did God? Can God give people land? Needless to say, after discussions can't seem to satisfactorily answer the question.
I'm not sure that a two state solution is the solution anymore. A one state solution is impossible, so what is the answer? I don't know. I do know that building more settlements in this disputed land is not part of the answer. I also don't understand why the Palestinians can't seem to put aside their differences and work towards the same goal which is a permanent home for the Palestinian people. The Palestinian people should be livid that they are being used as pawns by the powers that be.
I'm not sure that a two state solution is the solution anymore. A one state solution is impossible, so what is the answer? I don't know. I do know that building more settlements in this disputed land is not part of the answer. I also don't understand why the Palestinians can't seem to put aside their differences and work towards the same goal which is a permanent home for the Palestinian people. The Palestinian people should be livid that they are being used as pawns by the powers that be.
101
A one-state solution looks more likely, everyday, as the two-state solution looks less likely. Apartheid is what's "impossible" in the long term.
5
I have a theory that genetic testing would show that many of the Islamic Palestinians would prove to have been from families that were Jewish when the Romans sacked Jerusalem. I figure many of them converted when Islam took over as usually happens so they could be more able to rise up in society.
I also expect that many of the modern Jewish Israeli's would prove to be of mostly if not exclusively European ancestry with minimal if any middle Eastern genes.
I also expect that many of the modern Jewish Israeli's would prove to be of mostly if not exclusively European ancestry with minimal if any middle Eastern genes.
7
Israel has no right to decide the destiny of anything that doesn´t belong to it. The only right decision is to leave Palestine to its People
5
Israel has always been the problem. Crying ,worried and stealing land at the same time
37
Israel had settlements in Sinai and gave them up when it received a bona fide peace offer from Egypt. Israel gave up its settlements in Gaza. Given this history, it is hard to understand how settlements in Judea and Samaria are somehow an obstacle to peace. The real obstacle to peace is that the Palestinians don't want to live in peace next to a Jewish state. Very recently the Palestinian President Abbas dismissed the possibility of a peace that involves recognition of Israel as Jewish state. How strange when, as far back as 1947 the UN passed a resolution to create separate Jewish and Arab states in mandatory Palestine. The settlements are not blocking peace.
11
It is official, although unspoken, Israeli policy that there will be no Arab state west of the Jordan river. In this regard, the colonies in the West Bank have been placed purposely to (1) prevent the establishment of an Arab state, and (2) create isolated bantustans for the Arabs in the West Bank. Comparing the colonies in the West Bank to those in Gaza and Sinai is totally disingenuous.
Why should Israel be a Jewish state? Over 1/4 of its citizens are not even Jewish, and many Jews are secular. Israel should be a state for all of its people, where you can be as Jewish as you want to be.
Why should Israel be a Jewish state? Over 1/4 of its citizens are not even Jewish, and many Jews are secular. Israel should be a state for all of its people, where you can be as Jewish as you want to be.
12
Drew, a Jewish state doesn't have to be a theocracy, just having a Jewish majority living there, and minorities are allowed to live there if they wish.
2
1) You can call it whatever you want based on whatever books you read, but 99.9% of the world calls it the "Occupied West Bank".
2) No country on this planet is going to recognize the "Jewish State of Israel" because it threatens the rights of all existing and future non-Jewsih citizens of Israel. This ploy was just Netanyahu moving the goal posts so that peace talks could not advance and threaten his colonization program.
When the United States of America recognized Israel in 1948, President Truman explicitly declined to use the terms "the new jewish state" and instead crossed out those words and replaced them with "the State of Israel".
2) No country on this planet is going to recognize the "Jewish State of Israel" because it threatens the rights of all existing and future non-Jewsih citizens of Israel. This ploy was just Netanyahu moving the goal posts so that peace talks could not advance and threaten his colonization program.
When the United States of America recognized Israel in 1948, President Truman explicitly declined to use the terms "the new jewish state" and instead crossed out those words and replaced them with "the State of Israel".
2
We know how this ends. If you follow the trends of the past few decades, Israel will continue down the path of more right wing extremism, more religious fundamentalism, more militarism, and more racism (or simply atavistic hatred) towards all Arabs. Israel will never agree to a two-state solution and the can being forever kicked down the road will result in a nation in which anyone not Jewish will have second-class status (de jure and not merely de facto). The walls that separate Jews and Arabs will be extended along with the irony that Israel will wall itself into a ghetto of its own making. At some point in the next century, the oil wells in the Middle East will begin to dry up and the rest of the world will lose interest in that region.
22
Boy, Jason, you are really sure of yourself. Are you a seer or a philosopher of history? You've got it all figured out -- of course with Israel as the monster -- and leaving no room for the 1,000 variables that actually make history happen as opposed to simplistic moralistic narratives based on prejudice.
5
Jason, Israel has never done such thing like that to it's non-Jewish population and has no intentions of doing such in the near or late future. They are welcomed to live wherever they want and without issues. Compared to the rest of the region, Israel's minority population makes up 20%, and they don't find it much of an issue. Jews weren't the only groups that fled to Israel in large numbers especially when a number of Bedouins, Christians, Bahaians, and so many others came there especially when they are being persecuted elsewhere in the region. In reality, a non-Jew living in Israel has a lot more freedom compared to a non-Muslim living in the rest of the region. Also, Israel besides have a lot of synagogues has a number of churches, mosques, Bahai temples, monasteries, and so many other places of worship that are almost rare throughout the region. Overall, I can't understand where you are making such a claim. Keep in mind that Israel welcomes numerous groups to live in their country, while the Palestinians want absolutely no Jews in their land. Who is really being prejudice and supporting apartheid here?
2
If you listen to some statements from extremists like Avigdor Lieberman, I'd say Jason has it pretty well spot on.
2
U.S. aid to Israel pays living stipends to the right wing "settler" crowd. The settlers, basically, get a government check to break the law and prevent peace deals. Most settlers are living on the dole.
Many settlers are not even "Jewish" according to the race laws of Israel, and have, therefore, in order to leave their poor conditions in Eastern Europe and Russia, have concocted and forged a new identity. Why? They do it for the money and opportunity.
Israel's government stipends are very cynical and their loose standards in the occupied territory makes claims of "Jewish homeland" risible.
Many settlers are not even "Jewish" according to the race laws of Israel, and have, therefore, in order to leave their poor conditions in Eastern Europe and Russia, have concocted and forged a new identity. Why? They do it for the money and opportunity.
Israel's government stipends are very cynical and their loose standards in the occupied territory makes claims of "Jewish homeland" risible.
15
Long, long overdue but NY Times deserves praise for this illuminating piece. Let's hope it's the beginning of much more coverage and attention to the issue of settlements.
18
If Netanyahu and Israelis feel that they are entitled to that land, with the U.S. supporting them. Then the U.S. govt. should also allow the native Americans there land that was taken from them. The U.S. as Israel broke treaties and did pretty much what they wanted to do under the guise of "manifest destiny", in essence "white supremacy".
The jews have become the oppressor knowing full well what oppression is. Any oppression on any side is plain wrong.
Americans that feel that Netanyahu and the Israeli people have a right to those lands should also support giving the natives of north America back their land.
Of course not, this world is built on hypocrisy and white supremacy. The idea is absurd....
The jews have become the oppressor knowing full well what oppression is. Any oppression on any side is plain wrong.
Americans that feel that Netanyahu and the Israeli people have a right to those lands should also support giving the natives of north America back their land.
Of course not, this world is built on hypocrisy and white supremacy. The idea is absurd....
15
Yes indeed and would the American Jews for that matter - particularly those who support Israel, give up their property in the us back to the American Indians?
5
In all honesty where would Israel be without the continued support both financially and militarily without the billion heaped upon them by the United States?
41
Well, let's see where Israel would be:
US annual aid to Israel: $ 3.1 billion
Israeli GDP 2014: $286.840 billion
Why don't we ask, where would the US be without the brain power of the Jews?
US annual aid to Israel: $ 3.1 billion
Israeli GDP 2014: $286.840 billion
Why don't we ask, where would the US be without the brain power of the Jews?
7
Annual budget is not GDP! Israel's annual budget for 2011: $74 Billion. So, $3.1 Billion of that is US funded (which is over 4%). Quit comparing apples and oranges. Israel would be GONE without immensely generous US annual handouts!
8
Hard to tell, but not likely that they would be where they are today. Might still be business. Might also be at peace. We use them as a beachead, very much like the Israelis use the settlers. When the reason for either diminishes....
2
"Security" is being used by Israel as an excuse to steal Palestinian land; it's as simple as that. Which side has F-16's, nukes, and US support? This conflict has been and always will be about land. Israel is simply trying to cloud the issue.
48
Well said. I wonder what the status quo would be if the US provided military parity to the Palestinians (not including nuclear arms, of course, which Israel pretends not to have). Would the same stealing then continue? Israel just takes, and takes - a deterrent would help put a stop to it.
9
Security issue is real and not invented. Israel is threatened by hundreds of millions of Arabs surrounding it. The topography of Israel makes it crucial for Israel to keep large parts of Judea and Samaria.
The following short vid explains the issue of topography:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytWmPqY8TE0
The following short vid explains the issue of topography:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytWmPqY8TE0
6
I don't like the idea that Israel keeps taking land that was part of an international agreement and treaty, but we have Native Americans still living on land that was the chosen by our government because it was either the farthest away from the tribe's true home or because it was the least inhabitable or least wanted by settlers at the time. My dad used to say that possession was nine tenths of the law. Obviously both governments have figured that out. While I understand why Israel is strategically important for our interests, oil, in the Middle East, I don't understand why we can't make our financial aid to be limited by violations of policies that increase settlements in the West Bank.
23
More than apparent that there will be no peace. When news about Israel come on - I now change the channel - at least I do not have to watch my tax dollars at work overseas - just have them quietly extracted from my pocket.
18
Outside the U.S., the world holds it responsible for Israel´s continuing violation of international law. It may be a good idea for the U.S. to account for 50% of the world annual investment in military power as the once huge amount of soft power is disappearing at a rapid rate....Without military power, no power....that is the future.
9
Israel is the modern-day South Africa. The ethnic group with the greater technology treats a different ethnic group that is on its ancestral homeland as an inferior people.
I do not see the settlements going away, nor an independent Palestinian nation. Consequently, Israel must treat Palestinians as equal citizens, with the same rights to land, public services, votes, and transit as Jews. Until this happens, the USA should not lend any financial support.
Without equal citizenship, the Palestinians have no hope for dignified treatment. History has shown that an oppressed people can remain trodden upon only for so long.
I do not see the settlements going away, nor an independent Palestinian nation. Consequently, Israel must treat Palestinians as equal citizens, with the same rights to land, public services, votes, and transit as Jews. Until this happens, the USA should not lend any financial support.
Without equal citizenship, the Palestinians have no hope for dignified treatment. History has shown that an oppressed people can remain trodden upon only for so long.
50
Israel is not the modern-day South Africa. Arab-Israeli citizens in Israel have full legal rights, they vote, they sit in the Knesset, some are judges, doctors, some are in the police force and even the army. Compare that to the status of Jews in most Arab countries. As for Palestinians in Gaza and the West bank, Gaza has warred on Israel numerous times in recent years, hence the embargo, and the peace with the PA is a cold one at best.
As other comments have noted, a regularization of numerous practical injustices can readily be expected if and when there is a peace settlement. If and when.
As other comments have noted, a regularization of numerous practical injustices can readily be expected if and when there is a peace settlement. If and when.
6
Israel was established as a sanctuary for the Jewish people on the heels of the holocaust. With birthrates and religious ideology what they are, what you are suggesting would quickly turn Israel into another fundamentalist Islamic state in the midst of an area already overrun by this kind of religious fanaticism.
5
Israel was not established as a sanctuary for Jews on the heels of the Holocaust. The recognition of the Jewish national home by the international community well-preceded that and Jewish life in the area assumed a distinct and national character from the early 1900's, in fact.
The West Bank might well become part of Palestine under a negotiated settlement but that doesn't mean Jews shouldn't live there. Lots of Arabs live in Israel after all.
The real problem here is the failure of Palestinians to recognize Israel as a Jewish state.
The West Bank might well become part of Palestine under a negotiated settlement but that doesn't mean Jews shouldn't live there. Lots of Arabs live in Israel after all.
The real problem here is the failure of Palestinians to recognize Israel as a Jewish state.
5
I suggest the NY Times show a similar pictorial of the devlopments in neighboring countries of the Middle East. How tragic that growth and tranquility
can be portrayed as a obstacles to peace. The obstacle to peace is senseless war and hate - perhaps you should look to Syria, Libya, Egypt, Yemen, Iraq…...
can be portrayed as a obstacles to peace. The obstacle to peace is senseless war and hate - perhaps you should look to Syria, Libya, Egypt, Yemen, Iraq…...
17
Agree. Still, there is no justification for what Israel is doing.
9
Oh, we should trust Israel, not Iran.
6
Israel is a democracy compared to Iran being a theocracy, and I would rather have that as an ally rather than the other.
3
Israel is becoming more theocratic while Iran is becoming more democratic.
2
Greg, I feel that you are reading a reflection in the mirror, because it seems to be all backwards.
1
Israel has the world's fifth strongest military and hundreds of nuclear weapons, as well as the support of the US. But right now Gaza looks like an apartheid Bantustan only worse.
This would be a good time to unilaterally 'impose' an equitable solution to the Palestinian solution. The longer this is delayed, the worse the situation gets.
After the Western Allies defeated Nazi Germany in 1945, they re-organised the country on democratic lines and then gave the country back, even funding rebuilding via the Marshall plan. They didn't demonise and punish all Germans for the next fifty years, or take their territory.
Ben Gurion was right, Israel should return the lands it won in war; it should create a regime it can live with in Gaza and then move things forward in a civilised manner. It should strengthen the moderates and oppose the extremists.
This would be a good time to unilaterally 'impose' an equitable solution to the Palestinian solution. The longer this is delayed, the worse the situation gets.
After the Western Allies defeated Nazi Germany in 1945, they re-organised the country on democratic lines and then gave the country back, even funding rebuilding via the Marshall plan. They didn't demonise and punish all Germans for the next fifty years, or take their territory.
Ben Gurion was right, Israel should return the lands it won in war; it should create a regime it can live with in Gaza and then move things forward in a civilised manner. It should strengthen the moderates and oppose the extremists.
14
And who is going to impose it? Gaza looks the way it does because of Hamas.
Do you honestly think that after 2,000 years of dispersion in the vilely Jew-hating lands in which they were exiled that the Jews -- with all their nuclear weapons, the best air force in the world, and the 5th biggest army (not to mention the best) will just LET SOMEONE COME IN AND DETERMINE THEIR DESTINY? On what planet are you living?
Do you honestly think that after 2,000 years of dispersion in the vilely Jew-hating lands in which they were exiled that the Jews -- with all their nuclear weapons, the best air force in the world, and the 5th biggest army (not to mention the best) will just LET SOMEONE COME IN AND DETERMINE THEIR DESTINY? On what planet are you living?
9
Israel needs to choose to do this.... that is what Ben Gurion was saying.
Or they can periodically kill large numbers of civilians. 97 children under the age of five were killed in the bombardment of Gaza last summer per B'tselem.
Don't confuse strength with brutality; I was a soldier and I say that is not behaviour compatible with "the best" army.
Or they can periodically kill large numbers of civilians. 97 children under the age of five were killed in the bombardment of Gaza last summer per B'tselem.
Don't confuse strength with brutality; I was a soldier and I say that is not behaviour compatible with "the best" army.
5
The Geneva Initiative map is an idea, not necessarily even endorsed by the Palestinians. While many don't agree to more building in far flung communities, they do have to cope with growing families and some additions. There are numerous communities, even in the Eztion bloc, with no additional building within the borders of the settlement-across the street from Efrat. Ditto for many places in the Shomron, where married children of middle aged "settlers" cannot reside unless the rare empty nester sells. As to most of Jewish eastern Jerusalem and the 3 major blocs near the 67 line, everyone knows they will be kept, not only due to population size, but because nobody is going back to the 9 mile wide corridor of central Israel, often referred to as
Auschwitz borders.
A few reminders: 1. President Bush did approve of the large settlement blocs as part of a future permanent agreement 2. Mr. Miller thinks it's wrong to build outside of these major blocs, but he also stressed at AIPAC (heard him in person) that the Palestinians have no credible deal, or dealers/leadership anytime soon. With the Jordan River/border being a highly vulnerable spot, does anyone expect Israel to just walk away with pitiful promises? 3. Hebron in particular requires a special deal. It's not growing, yet the historical roots, very old Jewish cemetery, and holy places cannot be abandoned, anymore than Israel expecting Palestinians to give up Al Aqsa mosque. Complicated.
Auschwitz borders.
A few reminders: 1. President Bush did approve of the large settlement blocs as part of a future permanent agreement 2. Mr. Miller thinks it's wrong to build outside of these major blocs, but he also stressed at AIPAC (heard him in person) that the Palestinians have no credible deal, or dealers/leadership anytime soon. With the Jordan River/border being a highly vulnerable spot, does anyone expect Israel to just walk away with pitiful promises? 3. Hebron in particular requires a special deal. It's not growing, yet the historical roots, very old Jewish cemetery, and holy places cannot be abandoned, anymore than Israel expecting Palestinians to give up Al Aqsa mosque. Complicated.
12
Rosalie, let's not pretend to be the great adjudicator in the sky. Let the World court have a crack at it.
2
The land on the west bank is disputed. The previous ruler was the Kingdom of Jordan, before that the British Empire, previously, for nearly 900 years; the Ottoman Empire. Never the Palestinians. They made that up. If there was a Palestinian state there, someone please tell me who was on their currency. As for the Palestinians' contention that they have lived there for centuries, that too is fiction. Arafat was born in Cairo (look it up), Abbas' family is from Damascus, where they returned in 1948. The Palestinians' tie to the land is largely fictional.
The Israelis captured it in a defensive war, one they warned the Jordanians to stay out of. Jordan responded with an artillery on Tel Aviv. At that point the Jordanians lost title to the west bank. The Palestinians could have obtained title in 2000, 2008 and in 2014. However the cost of that title is peace and an end to their hostilities against Israel. The Palestinians weren't interested. They want the west bank to continue their war from. Just like Gaza. If they don't like the settlements, let them come to the negotiating table and start negotiating. The settlements aren't the problem, Palestinian violence is.
The Israelis captured it in a defensive war, one they warned the Jordanians to stay out of. Jordan responded with an artillery on Tel Aviv. At that point the Jordanians lost title to the west bank. The Palestinians could have obtained title in 2000, 2008 and in 2014. However the cost of that title is peace and an end to their hostilities against Israel. The Palestinians weren't interested. They want the west bank to continue their war from. Just like Gaza. If they don't like the settlements, let them come to the negotiating table and start negotiating. The settlements aren't the problem, Palestinian violence is.
22
"The land on the west bank is disputed."
In that case, every square inch of Israel is "disputed" land
The alternative is to uphold internatiponal law, which states unequivocally that 100% of the West Bank is "Occupied Palestinian Land." Israel has no claim whatsoever to a single sand grain of it.
In that case, every square inch of Israel is "disputed" land
The alternative is to uphold internatiponal law, which states unequivocally that 100% of the West Bank is "Occupied Palestinian Land." Israel has no claim whatsoever to a single sand grain of it.
9
The argument is not that they were a state it is that they lived on the land and actually owned it. Israel stole it literally terrorising & murdering to drive them off it.
9
OH yea they have done a lot of work destroying records and obscuring accurate history that can prove this.
5
Built pretty much with our money and assistance.
39
I too used to have sympathy for the stark contrasts. The PLO has received so many billions of aid, over decades, countless billions of dollars. They've squandered it, sadly through corruption and arms and missiles and propaganda and tunnels. Where are the schools, factories, electrical plants, water treatment centers, and the greenhouses those billions could have bought? Squandered. So sad. And what thanks did Israel get when they unilaterally left Gaza? Thousands of missiles randomly pointed at civilians. Greenhouse and factories left behind were looted and ruined. So sad.
18
You are misinformed. The Israeli's have prevented them from improving the conditions they live in. If they manage to do so in spite of the prohibitions and intentional road blocks Israel either bulldozes it or sends in missiles to kill the industrious fool.
20
HAMAS stole the BILLIONS sent to rehabilitate Gaza and used it for their network of tunnels and to buy military hardware to wage war.
Wake up and stop lying. It is also the case that the Palestinian Authority and HAMAS are among the most corrupt regimes in the world with millions being squirreled away in private accounts. Had the money that built the tunnels built homes and schools and shopping centers Gaza would begin to resemble some sizeable chunks of the West Bank.
Wake up and stop lying. It is also the case that the Palestinian Authority and HAMAS are among the most corrupt regimes in the world with millions being squirreled away in private accounts. Had the money that built the tunnels built homes and schools and shopping centers Gaza would begin to resemble some sizeable chunks of the West Bank.
9
Undoubtedly the Palestinians could much more highly prosper without conflict - as could Israel for that matter. But to pretend that Palestinians have no responsibility for it creates a hard-line situation that only beckons more war. No HAMAS missiles, no Israeli war. A sustained Palestinian campaign to end terror attacks against Israel, a relaxation of the borders and checkpoints. Israeli-Palestinian joint patrols (this has been tried by the way and when conditions improve it needs to begin again) and more lands administered by Palestinian authorities. It's a slow process that has no room for making big abrupt changes.
5
It sickens me to read this; any sane person can see that peace in that part of the Middle East is simply not possible without a 2 state solution, and at the rate the Israelis are going, there will be no land left for a Palestinian state. This will all come to tears 1 day.
39
All I see are beautiful towns being build out of desert. Like all of Israel. I wouldn't give it back either. Take a good long look at the first map. A "state" comprised of the entire West Bank would cleave Israel in two. Why would anyone hand that to a group that elects terrorists like Hamas as its leaders. Look what happened in Gaza after Israel withdrew. Greenhouses and industry waiting to be put to good use - destroyed out of anti-Israeli spite. Americans generally have no realistic idea of what it is like in the Middle East. Wishing it were one way does not make it so. Realpolitik is the only tolerable approach.
11
That's because you are not seeing the destroyed Palestinian homes.
10
Cleaved in two? Really? Are you sure? Where would the border sit for it to be so?
1
Ask yourself,what country would tolerate thousands of missiles from both Aza and S. Lebanon being fired at it's civilian population?If you
can somehow understand terrorism,then you have your answer.
can somehow understand terrorism,then you have your answer.
1
A truly frightening report on how bad the situation is. It's self-inflicted damage by Israel which can only inflame relations between Israelis and Palestinians and ultimately contribute to the collapse of Israel either as a democracy or, over time, as its own entity. Arab rights have been consistently abused for nearly 48 years. This can only inflame Palestinian and Arab popular opinion, fuel al-Qaeda, Hamas and al-Qaeda recruitment. In another 10 years, if this continues, will be unprecedented violence between both sides which will imperil Israel's existence. It could collapse. Remember King Hussein's speech to the U.N. General Assembly after the 1967 war? Recalled how the Crusaders occupied the Holy Land for only about 100 years. Israel would be wise to remember and make a deal with Palestine NOW.
9
While I personally would be comfortable living in Israel and NOT comfortable living in a Palestinian area or state is beside the point. The Oslo Agreement called for a two state solution, though I am unsure if boundaries were set. These settlements are a permanent barrier to peace, and must be abandoned, and a Palestinian state established, if Israel wishes to have peace and any friendly nations left in the world besides the Republicans in the US Congress, who are subject to being booted out.
I saw another post that I agree with entirely: abandon the settlements in their entirety in the West Bank and leave the buildings for the Palestinians to inhabit. I think a Palestinian state would be much friendlier than Israel believes if: (a) Israel would stop expanding settlements and abandon existing settlements in the West Bank - in other words stop looking like it intends to steal so much land in the West Bank that peace is impossible; and (b) start treating the Arabs under Israeli control like first class humans, instead of second class humans.
As an example of mistreatment of Arabs: the killers of the three Jewish boys came from homes in the occupied West Bank. Their homes, where members of their families lived in addition to the killers (I should say alleged killers because they have never been tried), were demolished. In constrast, the homes of the Israelis who burned the young Palestinian alive remain intact. Have those killers even been tried yet?
I saw another post that I agree with entirely: abandon the settlements in their entirety in the West Bank and leave the buildings for the Palestinians to inhabit. I think a Palestinian state would be much friendlier than Israel believes if: (a) Israel would stop expanding settlements and abandon existing settlements in the West Bank - in other words stop looking like it intends to steal so much land in the West Bank that peace is impossible; and (b) start treating the Arabs under Israeli control like first class humans, instead of second class humans.
As an example of mistreatment of Arabs: the killers of the three Jewish boys came from homes in the occupied West Bank. Their homes, where members of their families lived in addition to the killers (I should say alleged killers because they have never been tried), were demolished. In constrast, the homes of the Israelis who burned the young Palestinian alive remain intact. Have those killers even been tried yet?
12
Apples and Oranges,the land in the West Bank is disputed territory,the Geneva accords of the 4th amendment does not apply.To further define the Geneva accords of the 4th amendment,it refers to the invading army,Israel was attacked first and as the winner,they choose who gets what of the disputed territory.In essence,Israel should simply annex all the territory it won after being attacked.
1
There have been a lot of attempts to achieve the opposite goal -- take land from Israel. You can lose your own territory trying to take from someone else. Thankfully, Israel has been resilient. Thanks to the photographer for the beautiful pictures.
11
NYT " AS MR. NETANYAHU SEEKS a fourth term, his record on settlements is a central element of his troubled relationship with Washington, alongside the divergence on how to deal with Iran’s nuclear program."
The statement above is not correct. Not a single American administration has played hardball with Israel as Jewish settlements were expanded into Palestinian land.
Benyamin Netanyahu's 'troubled' relationship with the Obama administration goes beyond settlements. The Israeli prime minister had the guts to come to Washington DC and ask Congress to veto Obama's nuclear accord with Iran. He may succeed. If that happens, America has entered uncharted waters on foreign policy.
The statement above is not correct. Not a single American administration has played hardball with Israel as Jewish settlements were expanded into Palestinian land.
Benyamin Netanyahu's 'troubled' relationship with the Obama administration goes beyond settlements. The Israeli prime minister had the guts to come to Washington DC and ask Congress to veto Obama's nuclear accord with Iran. He may succeed. If that happens, America has entered uncharted waters on foreign policy.
7
What a struggle! You can have peace or justice, one or t'other. But you can't have or justice without peace, or vice-versa. I think Salman Fayyed solved the Gordian knot, (peace before justice, but justice to follow), but politically he was unable to lead the Arab Palestinians to statehood. The irony is that the West Bank was in Jordanian hands from 1948-1967, and Gaza was in Egyptian hands at the same time, and the PLO was formed in 1964 - - three years before the Six-Day War - - not to found a Palestinian state on the West Bank and Gaza, but to work toward Israel's destruction. This can't help but colour Israelis' perceptions about needing peace first - a demilitarized West Bank and Gaza, before negotiating a just compromise.
11
Israel is founded on stolen land, and the settlements are only the latest example of that. The Middle East will see peace only when this monumental injustice has been eradicated. Israel as such will never know peace.
46
On the contrary, the entire problem stems from the fact that Israel HAS peace. Their hospitals are not being blown to bits, their population is not being terrorized, their economy is prosperous, their land is not being confiscated, their olive trees are not being uprooted, their citizens are not being forced at gunpoint from their homes, their water resources are not being deliberately contaminated, their children are not being gunned down or blown apart by savage aerial bombardment and they are not victims of ethnic cleansing by foreign invaders from Brooklyn, Kansas City or Kiev.
3
stolen from whom....themselves? Your comments are false..........there are 22 Arab countries and there never was a "Palestine"..........so please read your history books a bit more carefully..........the land is disputed.........and the disputed land is between Jordan and Israel............is was taken in a defensive war............and apparently as your comments show......it still needs to be defended..........
6
Mr. Netanyahu is no doubt a great Prime Minister to his people, advancing Israel's causes and cementing (literally) it's place in the region. However, continued unilateral actions such as annexation and settlements are not without consequences among Israel's allies. The election is an interesting test about whether the broader Israeli population now sees the danger in continuing down that path. The Palestinians, for their part, are more than justified for seeking redress on the world stage, as they long ago saw through Netanyahu's false promises of negotiation.
10
"...but the prospects of peace are few"
So long as Israel ignores the relevant UN Security Council resolutions and world opinion, continues to import settlers into the occupied territories and elects hard-line leaders like Netenyahu, the prospects are indeed, few.
The continued illegal settlement construction will inevitably result in a situation in which a two-state solution is impossible, and that is the Israeli strategy in a nutshell. Until then, Israel will pretend that "the prospects of peace are few" and US media will dutifully report that erroneous notion as fact.
So long as Israel ignores the relevant UN Security Council resolutions and world opinion, continues to import settlers into the occupied territories and elects hard-line leaders like Netenyahu, the prospects are indeed, few.
The continued illegal settlement construction will inevitably result in a situation in which a two-state solution is impossible, and that is the Israeli strategy in a nutshell. Until then, Israel will pretend that "the prospects of peace are few" and US media will dutifully report that erroneous notion as fact.
19
When a country flagrantly ignores nearly a century of settled international law, a long list of Security Council resolutions beginning with Resolution 242 in December, 1967, Article 2 of the United Nations Charter, and the 4th Geneva conventions, you would think they would be facing the strictest sanctions possible and a choking international boycott. Instead they receive billions of dollars of aid, mostly military, from the United States, which uses its Security Council veto to block all attempts to reverse, stop or even criticize Israel over the settlements, and uses it's immense diplomatic power to block all attempt by the Palestinians to have this atrocity arbitrated by a neutral international body. The United Stares does this because the settlements are totally legally and morally indefensible and cannot stand up to scrutiny of any kind. The Israeli theft of Palestinian land is not materially different than the Bantustans constructed by the South African Apartheid government. This is every much America's shame as it is Israel's shame. It is like watching a 21st Century slow motion replay of the theft of all North America from its indigenous people and feeling helpless to stop it. Israel has a right to exist, but what it is doing, under America's protection, is scandalous and indefensible and the rest of the world knows it.
110
wrong.....nobody is "steaing" anybody's land....the land is DISPUTED......won in defensive wars of survival.........the borders will be drawn when the 2 parties agree...in the meantime Israel builds a modern country and the Palestinians worship violence.........
9
Trying to put a round peg in a square hole,your facts are askew,fabricated to a fault and totally inaccurate,read the history again.
1
It's now popular among your readers and editorial staff to publish nasty stories undermining Netanyahu and Israeli policy. This paper has carried the water for pro-Palestinian and anti-Israeli rhetoric for a few years.
When does this rhetoric bleed over into anti-semitic sentiment? Was it when the Obama administration allowed the Iranians to continue developing nukes?
It's simple, really. Israel is surrounded by neighbors (and some of its own citizens) who have it as a goal to destroy the Jewish homeland. Will you 'progressives' stand by and tacitly support this outcome?
When does this rhetoric bleed over into anti-semitic sentiment? Was it when the Obama administration allowed the Iranians to continue developing nukes?
It's simple, really. Israel is surrounded by neighbors (and some of its own citizens) who have it as a goal to destroy the Jewish homeland. Will you 'progressives' stand by and tacitly support this outcome?
20
Undoubtedly you are correct that some people and Nations want to destroy Israel. Thank goodness, they have not been successful.
This fear does not give Israel the right to take Palestinian land and create illegal settlements.
So, while Israel may worry others are intent on destroying the Jewish homeland, Israel is actually destroying the Palestinians' homeland.
If the shoe were on the other foot . . .
This fear does not give Israel the right to take Palestinian land and create illegal settlements.
So, while Israel may worry others are intent on destroying the Jewish homeland, Israel is actually destroying the Palestinians' homeland.
If the shoe were on the other foot . . .
11
This ancient shibboleth about imminent destruction is getting really tiresome.
Israel will be nipped at its heals till hell freezes over as it continues to steal the land it took from the Palestinians in 1967. Unless and until Israel gives that land back, it will be seen as a rogue state - the kind of state it so cavalierly labels its enemies. The world community of nations (except the official US) understands this.
Israel will be nipped at its heals till hell freezes over as it continues to steal the land it took from the Palestinians in 1967. Unless and until Israel gives that land back, it will be seen as a rogue state - the kind of state it so cavalierly labels its enemies. The world community of nations (except the official US) understands this.
9
Israel is not taking "Palestinian land". Some of the settlements were historically Jewish (pre-'47) and have been re-established after being lost in the war of independence in 1948. Others are being established on land which in any case is disputed: there has been no final assignment by international law or treaties of this land due to the non-resolution of the underlying issues. The West Bank formed part of Mandate Palestine which, under international law, was to be part of the Jewish Home. 80% of the Mandate became Jordan in which many Palestinians live today.
And this is apart from the genuine security issues that require a habited presence there.
And this is apart from the genuine security issues that require a habited presence there.
9
US sanctions? Declare a "national state of emergency" Israel's "grave security threat" a la Venezuela?
Nope. Send the colonial settler state more US tax dollars!
Nope. Send the colonial settler state more US tax dollars!
3
As an American Jew, I've had it.
Let Israel rise or fall on its own two feet.
I'm washing my hands of them, and I hope this country does too.
Let Israel rise or fall on its own two feet.
I'm washing my hands of them, and I hope this country does too.
77
Unfortunately, Ethan, it's not so simple. Lots of Jews have tried to wash their hands of their Jewish identity and were still schlepped off by the Germans, Spaniards, Romans, Greeks, etc. Non-Jews will always see you as a Jew. You won't ever be able to successfully hide from your Jewishness, also because it is part of your spiritual DNA. Better to embrace it and your people. Go find a Torah scholar and learn some Torah. Meanwhile, here's a Baal Shem Tov story: http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/3001/jewish/The-Wandering-...
6
I don't understand why so many people posting here have to preface their comments by stating "I am a Jew", I don't see anyone else here stating what nationality or religion they are. It happens all the time, perhaps I'll start all my comments by stating I'm an Italian/Spanish/English American......no I don't think so. Who cares what religion you are just post your comments and be done with it.
Negotiate peace may require reasons not to let things go on as they are and settlements may contribute to that end. But there will also be the temptation to build and stay.
Peace is much more valuable and the best time is now.
Peace is much more valuable and the best time is now.
3
I am curious why compensation is never discussed. These people are not moving, that is clear. So how about paying for this land?
6
That will happen when Israel pays back the United States for its untold billions we have already given them.
9
One often hears Netanyahu and other Israeli spokespersons and residents blame the fact that "We are surrounded by enemies who hate us and want Israel destroyed" for their decisions to increase the building of settlements and meet every real and imagined Palestinian attempt to retaliate by mounting devastating military attacks. But when one sees these remarkable photos of Jewish settlements and compares them to how the Palestinians are living next door to them in the West Bank, the question becomes why do the Palestinians not do more to express their outrage? And, more to the point for us, why does the United States do nothing substantive to stop this blatantly cruel Injustice? As Martin Luther King, Jr. said, "History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people."
18
Does anyone realistically think Iran wants to destroy Israel? It's not even a neighbor, for criminy sakes. Iran has plenty of other problems besides mounting a losing battle with Israel. Netenyahu is a frightmonger.
10
The question that should be asked is why the Palestinians can't build cities that are just as good as the ones the Israelis do.
Why can't the Arab world with all the billions they have give some money to the Palestinians to build.
Yes the Palestinians should complain.
They should complain that the billion the PLO got went into Arafat's back pocket and wasn't used to make their lives better.
Why can't the Arab world with all the billions they have give some money to the Palestinians to build.
Yes the Palestinians should complain.
They should complain that the billion the PLO got went into Arafat's back pocket and wasn't used to make their lives better.
1
Are you surrounded by enemies?Obviously your geography is a little rusty.
1
The more significant question for an American Jew who supports a Palestinian state is why every State Department condones U.S. passport holders living in settlements the existence of which violates international law? Unless and until these dual citizens are called to account for their criminal behavior, official criticism of these settlements is mere hypocrisy.
10
An even more significant question is where, in the world (literally), you come up with the premise that it is illegal for an individual to live in a settlement. Reasonable people can debate whether international law allows a COUNTRY (in this case, Israel) to settle conquered territory. But there is no basis in US or international law for holding individuals liable simply for living in an arguably illegal settlement.
11
The settlements in question are not arguably illegal. They are illegal to everyone but partisans who choose to ignore international law. If an American citizen carrying a US passport abroad violates international law, his government has an obligation to revoke his passport. These settlers are abetting the theft of occupied land, and by force of arms. They do not behead the people whose land they have stolen, but they have condemned them to misery.
3
This is land that belongs to the Jewish people -- period. It belongs to the Jews by right of history, by right of conquest (it was won fairly), and by right of reality. It was originally earmarked for the Jewish state because the West Bank is a natural part of the land of Israel.
At this point, with terrorist organizations growing like weeds in the Middle East, expecting Israel to retreat to artificial geopolitical borders is asking it to commit suicide. Control over the West Bank (and the Jordan valley and river) is essential to the future security of Israel.
At this point, with terrorist organizations growing like weeds in the Middle East, expecting Israel to retreat to artificial geopolitical borders is asking it to commit suicide. Control over the West Bank (and the Jordan valley and river) is essential to the future security of Israel.
17
Really? Why doesn't the land belong to Italy, the heirs of the Romans? What Jews do you think the land 'belongs' to, those who lived in Europe? Africa? India? Judaism is a religion, does the land belong to converts, too? Why not take over Jordan, too?
4
And Manhattan belongs to the Indians by right of history. Actually according to the Bible the Jews took Israel from the Canaanites by massacring them. So, if we can find any Canaanites we should give it back to them. Plus ca change.
7
america provides israel with $1,000,000,000 in aid yearly.
i personally feel ashamed of this action, for it only serves to embolden those whose religious self-righteousness is indecent, indeed is counter to the teachings of the Bible.
i personally feel ashamed of this action, for it only serves to embolden those whose religious self-righteousness is indecent, indeed is counter to the teachings of the Bible.
6
The settlements are by fact illegal under international law. But international law is by definition hard to enforce, especially in situations like this. The real question is how any Israeli (or Israel supporter) could be surprised that the vast majority of the civilized world sees such provocations as a bold statement that Israel does not actually want a lasting peace with its neighbors. I believe that any sovereign country should do what it needs to do to defend itself, and face the consequences of its actions. However, I also believe that supporting Israel is a horrible policy for any country, especially for the US. We need to stop the flow of hard earned taxpayer money (several $billions/yr), military assistance, and political capital to Israel now. Let's stop telling them what to do, and let them do what they want, but let them do it alone. The US has kowtowed to this insignificant country for much too long.
22
Bantering about the international law,has nothing to do with the circumstance of disputed territory,read the Levy report and as far as the billions you refer to,Israel has a reciprocal arrangement withe USA regarding payment,it is not all cash,as you would assume,but in goods and services,a two way street of Science,Security and other arrangements over the years.
1
Apart from my negative feeling about the settlements and Prime Minister Netanyahu, this is an outstanding piece in the NYT with the photographs, graphics and the report.Kudos for the work.
Now it is hoped that the Israelis will weigh their vote and future, judiciously.
Now it is hoped that the Israelis will weigh their vote and future, judiciously.
7
How can anyone forward the argument that the settlements are a buffer against future attacks? If that were so, you wouldn't deliberately and increasingly populate that buffer zone, would you? Or will Israel, as the population of the settlements expands, need another buffer zone beyond the West Bank? Israel, you are still surrounded by "them", only now "they" are even more impoverished, even more aggrieved, even more angry. This helps who?
31
Natural growth.
1
My questions for Israelis in the settlements are:
1: is it really about an historical and ethnic right to the land, or is it about what suburban sprawl is always about: more space for the money, better schools, and a back yard for your dog?
.
2: if it's the latter, then why? Why should living in Israel not include some downsizing and changing of your lifestyle? Why shouldn't Israelis live in high rises in Jerusalem or Tel Aviv? If you want to keep your suburban lifestyle, why not move to the US or Europe, where these things do not incite wars?
1: is it really about an historical and ethnic right to the land, or is it about what suburban sprawl is always about: more space for the money, better schools, and a back yard for your dog?
.
2: if it's the latter, then why? Why should living in Israel not include some downsizing and changing of your lifestyle? Why shouldn't Israelis live in high rises in Jerusalem or Tel Aviv? If you want to keep your suburban lifestyle, why not move to the US or Europe, where these things do not incite wars?
46
You mean to say why not move back to the US/ Brooklyn or Europe!!
1
I see no warrant to tell "settlers" to move back anywhere when, i) Jews have lived uninterruptedly in what is now Israel and the West Bank since antiquity; ii) they had a state there in antiquity; iii) there was no recognized polity of Palestine when they moved to the area en masse in the late 1800's and 1900's and especially since the end of WW I; and iv) international law approved the creation of a Jewish national home via the creation of the Palestine Mandate.
Nothing parallel to each circumstance existed when Europeans came to America and founded nations on this continent. If the settlers have to go home, I think all us North Americans except those with native American ancestry better start packing.
Nothing parallel to each circumstance existed when Europeans came to America and founded nations on this continent. If the settlers have to go home, I think all us North Americans except those with native American ancestry better start packing.
3
Gerald, I'll fly out and soon as you give me the nod, to help you pack.
The conservatives who run the Israeli government will do whatever they can to have the ultra-orthodox, many of whom don't even recognize the State of Israel, off in their restricted communities in the West Bank and not in Tel Aviv or its suburbs. Out of sight, and mostly out of mind.
But to you and me and the Arab world, these settlements shouldn't be where they've been placed, as virtual place-holders for expansion of Israel to encompass all of what's generally regarded as Palestine.
Ever look at an Israeli orthodox map of Israel? It doesn't end at East Jerusalem, it doesn't have a 9-mile-wide waist halfway up the coast to Haifa, and there's no green line. It's all Israel, including what the orthodox call Samaria and Judea. And they consider it to be authentic, historic, proven and God-given parts of the ancient and modern Jewish states.
Netanyahu and the conservatives are not interested in a 'two-state solution' and never have been. They want it all.
But to you and me and the Arab world, these settlements shouldn't be where they've been placed, as virtual place-holders for expansion of Israel to encompass all of what's generally regarded as Palestine.
Ever look at an Israeli orthodox map of Israel? It doesn't end at East Jerusalem, it doesn't have a 9-mile-wide waist halfway up the coast to Haifa, and there's no green line. It's all Israel, including what the orthodox call Samaria and Judea. And they consider it to be authentic, historic, proven and God-given parts of the ancient and modern Jewish states.
Netanyahu and the conservatives are not interested in a 'two-state solution' and never have been. They want it all.
47
Thomas Jefferson equated slavery to holding a wolf by the ears- "you don't like it, but you don't dare let go." As a young, liberal, American Conservative Jew (a dying breed, it seems) I must say I feel the same about the settlements. As much as they're an obstacle to peace, if they were to suddenly be gone Israel would be in dire straights. What guarantee does Israel have that dismantling settlements in the West Bank will bring peace? None. In 2005 after the settlements in Gaza were evacuated, Hamas responded by firing rockets at Sderot and Ashkelon, goading Israel into war and using the people they're supposed to represent as human shields and political pawns. Does anyone in their right mind really think that this scenario won't repeat itself if Israel withdraws from the West Bank? Will Hamas and the P.A. renounce violence and recognize my right, and every Jew's right, to live? Why is the onus on Israel, solely, to "make peace"? How can I support a Palestinian state that will treat women and homosexuals as second class citizens, where it has been said time and again that Jews will not be permitted?
Sorry, Israel won't unilaterally subject itself to the inevitability of terror. It would be refreshing to see a story in the Times on Hamas and the P.A.'s mistreatment of their own people for political ends, but that doesn't seem to toe the line.
Sorry, Israel won't unilaterally subject itself to the inevitability of terror. It would be refreshing to see a story in the Times on Hamas and the P.A.'s mistreatment of their own people for political ends, but that doesn't seem to toe the line.
75
A ridiculous misuse of Jefferson's analogy to justify land theft through vilification of a people. You ought to be ashamed, at least you identified yourself as a conservative.
Jefferson feared justice:
"Oh yes, he always expressed some horror that someday if they turned the slaves free, if they emancipated them, that they would turn on their former slaveholders. What I think he was doing was merely expressing a profound sense of guilt and fear, a prediction that did not necessarily need to come true in the late 18th century and that, indeed, did not come true in the middle of the 19th century when they finally were emancipated."
Jefferson feared justice:
"Oh yes, he always expressed some horror that someday if they turned the slaves free, if they emancipated them, that they would turn on their former slaveholders. What I think he was doing was merely expressing a profound sense of guilt and fear, a prediction that did not necessarily need to come true in the late 18th century and that, indeed, did not come true in the middle of the 19th century when they finally were emancipated."
6
Theft by any other name is still theft, and Israelis by almost any measure have stolen and continue to steal something of great value that does NOT belong to them.
14
But why can't Israel keep a military eye on Gaza, or the West Bank, without building settlements? I never really understood this argument. Settlements per se don't make Israel safer, quite the opposite. How is bringing civilians into the picture promoting safety for Israelis?
8
And we kicked the Indians off our land with little more than a few settlements and a couple casinos.
The bigger question is why the fascination with this tiny sliver of the Arab world, the Palestinians, who since this earliest days of their first revolutionary leader, Yasser Arafat, have gotten little by choosing to go to war regularly instead of making any attempt to coexist in peace.
There's only one Jewish homeland in the world and the world should applaud Israel and the settlers for taking a barren wasteland (which is what you'll still find in the Palestinian controlled areas), for creating a beautiful, livable, prosperous environment.
The bigger question is why the fascination with this tiny sliver of the Arab world, the Palestinians, who since this earliest days of their first revolutionary leader, Yasser Arafat, have gotten little by choosing to go to war regularly instead of making any attempt to coexist in peace.
There's only one Jewish homeland in the world and the world should applaud Israel and the settlers for taking a barren wasteland (which is what you'll still find in the Palestinian controlled areas), for creating a beautiful, livable, prosperous environment.
16
Yes lush and beautiful thanks to American Money to fund their wonderful lifestyles while we can't or properly school our own children living in the United States. It's always better when you use other people's money to fund your lifestyle, much like our elected officials.
17
We know the Palestinians are just evil and the Israelis are god's gift to man on earth. So the two state solution is dead. What are you going to do about the 2.7 million Arabs who live in the West Bank and the 1.7 million who live the Gaza strip; the largest open air prison in the world. When Israel combine theses territories into one greater Israel you will have a country with approximately 6 million Jews and 6 million Arabs. Are you going to give all the Arabs the right to vote or are you going to have an apartheid state?
8
" the world should applaud Israel and the settlers for taking a barren wasteland .. . for creating a beautiful, livable, prosperous environment."
That's the same excuse the Europeans used to displace the Indians and the Australian aborigines. They found the land beautiful and livable before the Europeans came; not so much afterward.
That's the same excuse the Europeans used to displace the Indians and the Australian aborigines. They found the land beautiful and livable before the Europeans came; not so much afterward.
6
The two-state solution is already dead. The continuous expansion of the settlements under every Israeli government for the past half century was intended to prevent the establishment of a viable separate Palestinians state. The policy has succeeded, but with implications that most liberal Zionists are unwilling to face.
But while the settlements have grown, so has the relative size of he Palestinian population between the River Jordan and the Sea who live under one or another forms of Israeli sovereignty. For most of Israel's existence that population was majority Jewish, even if that was accomplished by maintaining several million Palestinians as permanent international refugees. The balance has tipped recently and Palestinians now constitute a narrow majority of Israeli subjects.
As a minority herded onto territories that Israel had little use for the Palestinians were compelled to accept the vision of a state on the least desirable 22% of their historical homeland. As a majority confronted with the fact that partition has been rendered geographically and politically impossible the path forward is increasingly obvious: the struggle for one person, one vote and full democratic rights and equality for all Palestinians in the binational single state that already governs their lives.
When that happens, and it will be sooner than many expect, the apologists for Israel's ongoing racist and colonial dispossession of the Palestinians won't know what hit them.
But while the settlements have grown, so has the relative size of he Palestinian population between the River Jordan and the Sea who live under one or another forms of Israeli sovereignty. For most of Israel's existence that population was majority Jewish, even if that was accomplished by maintaining several million Palestinians as permanent international refugees. The balance has tipped recently and Palestinians now constitute a narrow majority of Israeli subjects.
As a minority herded onto territories that Israel had little use for the Palestinians were compelled to accept the vision of a state on the least desirable 22% of their historical homeland. As a majority confronted with the fact that partition has been rendered geographically and politically impossible the path forward is increasingly obvious: the struggle for one person, one vote and full democratic rights and equality for all Palestinians in the binational single state that already governs their lives.
When that happens, and it will be sooner than many expect, the apologists for Israel's ongoing racist and colonial dispossession of the Palestinians won't know what hit them.
40
These colonies of implantations are not only an eye sore on the gorgeous landscape of Palestine,they also remind us how Israel was built on the spoliation and deportation of Palestinian Natives. No good tree can grow on such a dirty soil !
28
Palestine was hardly growing, hence the Green line reference-beyond it was brown, largely untilled or planted. As to the Palestinian natives, can you come up with something more original? They are mostly, but not exclusively, Arabs from: Southern Syria, Transjordan, Arabia, Iraq, Egypt, and other parts of northern Africa. Yes, there are indeed Palestinians with some ancestry going way back, but guess what, plenty of "native Jews" in Israel who also fit that bill. Would have been more not for the deathly Crusades and some equally disasterous Muslim rulers, pogroms from the locals (a mixed bag of Turkic and Arab peoples).
6
As Mark Twain wrote in his Journal when visiting the holy land in the late 1800's,his observation was "the land is barren and neglected" So until the Jews came,there was nothing.
1
Permanent settlements by our allies mean permanent trouble for US.
82
The Palestinians have never for a moment stopped fighting their 1948 war and have no intention of ever stopping. And when you fight repeated wars, and keep losing them, and then announce by your actions that you plan to fight some more wars, you lose land and other things. That is the way this world works.
28
I think I can see two sides of this coin, having once lived in the region: at one time in a predominantly Arab town and at other times in both secular and religious Jewish neighborhoods. I've never quite understood why the Israeli West Bank settlements are such an anathema to the world without there ever being mention of the fact that 4.5 million Arabs have been given every right as citizens to live peaceably and prosperously in Israel. To me, it serves as proof that Arabs and Jews can live together and respect each other, so long as both want peace. But the Palestinian powers that be have NEVER wanted peace. Will they permit Jews be to live in the West Bank as citizens of a Palestinian state? This is a question I've never once heard raised. Because what Hamas and the PLO and all want is Israel's total destruction, whatever it cost their own people. This is what I find to be the heart of the tragedy. And let's remember that the West Bank was won in a bloody war against Jordon (and other surrounding Arab nations), a war. by the way, that Israel did not want at the time and fought only because the Arab nations had sworn to wipe her off the face of the earth. There will only be peace when they bury this hatred.
112
4.5 million Arabs is incorrect. 1.7 million Arabs live in Israel. The rest live under an occupation that limits their personal rights, political rights, and economic opportunities.
And your NEVER want peace point is also incorrect. The OSLO Accords, if seen out, could have gradually eased the West Bank into becoming a legitimate, self-regulated state. The PA was highly cooperative, it recognized Israel, it policed its own population, and violence dropped to all time lows; it was a legitimate peace partner. Settlement expansion was ramped up by Likud to deliberately stall the progression. Palestinians were also at fault for the fallout.
One thing that can't be denied is that Israel is undeniably in a position of power, and it must make concessions if it truly wants the two-state solution. Making negotiations contingent on the PA recognizing Israel as a Jewish state helps nothing; it's arbitrary semantics and bigoted. If Israel truly seeks peace, then it would not care what the PA thinks of its religious/national identity. The PA recognized that Israel has a right to exist long ago, and that's all that matters.
And your NEVER want peace point is also incorrect. The OSLO Accords, if seen out, could have gradually eased the West Bank into becoming a legitimate, self-regulated state. The PA was highly cooperative, it recognized Israel, it policed its own population, and violence dropped to all time lows; it was a legitimate peace partner. Settlement expansion was ramped up by Likud to deliberately stall the progression. Palestinians were also at fault for the fallout.
One thing that can't be denied is that Israel is undeniably in a position of power, and it must make concessions if it truly wants the two-state solution. Making negotiations contingent on the PA recognizing Israel as a Jewish state helps nothing; it's arbitrary semantics and bigoted. If Israel truly seeks peace, then it would not care what the PA thinks of its religious/national identity. The PA recognized that Israel has a right to exist long ago, and that's all that matters.
9
Mahmoud Abbas has publicly stated numerous times that no Jewish minority will be allowed to live in the future Palestinian state (Isn't that "Apartheid" Mr. Abbas?), yet Israel has a large Arab minority, comprising 20% of Israel's population. Both the Covenants of Hamas, http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp and the P.L.O., www.isis.org/plochart.htm still call for the eradication of the State of Israel. As long as the conflict remains strictly a "one to the exclusion of the other" doctrine as defined by the Palestinians, irrespective of what concessions Israel may make in the interest of peace, there is no incentive for Israel to abandon settlements and may extend them to the banks of the Jordan River.
Under International Law, the victorious belligerent may retain captured land, until possession is modified by treaty. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uti_possidetis
In 2000 and 2008, the Israeli government offered to return 95% of the land captured in the 1967 "Six Day War," which was rejected by Yasser Arafat, who initiated the "Second Intifada," including the bombings of buses and restaurants, and Mahmoud Abbas, respectively. As acceptance of these or similar offers would constitute "de-facto" recognition of Israel's right to exist within "secure and recognized boundaries," per UNSCR 242 and 338, Palestinians prefer the "occupation" continue.
Under International Law, the victorious belligerent may retain captured land, until possession is modified by treaty. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uti_possidetis
In 2000 and 2008, the Israeli government offered to return 95% of the land captured in the 1967 "Six Day War," which was rejected by Yasser Arafat, who initiated the "Second Intifada," including the bombings of buses and restaurants, and Mahmoud Abbas, respectively. As acceptance of these or similar offers would constitute "de-facto" recognition of Israel's right to exist within "secure and recognized boundaries," per UNSCR 242 and 338, Palestinians prefer the "occupation" continue.
7
"Will they permit Jews to live in the West Bank as citizens of a Palestinian state? This is a question I've never once heard raised."
This would be a valid question, if there were a Palestinian state. Since there isn't, and Israel has no intention of allowing one to be created, it's just hypothetical.
This would be a valid question, if there were a Palestinian state. Since there isn't, and Israel has no intention of allowing one to be created, it's just hypothetical.
1
What is the Palestinian peace plan.
1. Israel to go back to the 67 boarders.
2. Israel to go back to the 48 boarders.
I want to hear a Palestinian offer the Israeli government can't refuse. A great offer. Nothing.
1. Israel to go back to the 67 boarders.
2. Israel to go back to the 48 boarders.
I want to hear a Palestinian offer the Israeli government can't refuse. A great offer. Nothing.
14
I think the offer the Israeli government is waiting for is the Palestinians offer to just leave, or allow their total subjugation.
11
Eddie it looks like you've missed a lot.
The solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is well-known, is acceptable to the Palestinians, is acceptable to the West, is acceptable to rest of the world, is consistent with official US foreign policy, is consistent with UN Resolutions and international law, is consistent with the principles laid out by the Quartet, and is consistent with the proposal put forward by the Arab League.
It is what the world demands and what Israel refuses to accept:
2 viable states; 1967 boundaries with mutually agreed land swaps, right of return negotiated using both (limited) property and (fair) compensation.
The solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is well-known, is acceptable to the Palestinians, is acceptable to the West, is acceptable to rest of the world, is consistent with official US foreign policy, is consistent with UN Resolutions and international law, is consistent with the principles laid out by the Quartet, and is consistent with the proposal put forward by the Arab League.
It is what the world demands and what Israel refuses to accept:
2 viable states; 1967 boundaries with mutually agreed land swaps, right of return negotiated using both (limited) property and (fair) compensation.
1
We've been had supporting this settlement activity and the phony argument that the settlement activity does not matter. The "peace process" was really about delay, not sincere. At this point I would like the US to stop supporting this activity. The US has enabled this situation long enough and it's time to stop it.
395
What are you referring to by USA support of Jewish settlements in Israel?The USA does not support this program.
1
The sad thing is Netanyahu will be remembered as the one who destroyed the dream of a Jewish nation. Israeli's are dreaming if they think Palestinians and the rest of the world will sit by for another half century while they create an Apartheid state where literally half the population has no rights.
129
Israel's founders never intended to stop with what they'd been allocated by the UN.
Please, commenters who repeat endlessly the canard of Palestinian intransigence: why should any group be bound to accept agreements made by others that take away their land and property?
Please, commenters who repeat endlessly the mantra that one cannot negotiate with "terrorists"--who was Menachem Begin before he became Prime Minister of Israel? Who were the Stern Gang and Irgun?
Every Israeli government since Israel's founding has known full well that the perpetual threat of war keeps America firmly on Israel's side. Peace is more dangerous to Israel's interests than anything else.
I have blood relatives in Israel and wish them happiness and safety. But they live on land that was taken--by force or by resolutions made by those who had no right to--and to deny that is untruthful before God. Too many otherwise rational and progressive Jews still cling to the ingrained superstition that the Creator of the Universe would hand out little parcels to particular people with an unbreakable lease unto eternity.
Please, commenters who repeat endlessly the canard of Palestinian intransigence: why should any group be bound to accept agreements made by others that take away their land and property?
Please, commenters who repeat endlessly the mantra that one cannot negotiate with "terrorists"--who was Menachem Begin before he became Prime Minister of Israel? Who were the Stern Gang and Irgun?
Every Israeli government since Israel's founding has known full well that the perpetual threat of war keeps America firmly on Israel's side. Peace is more dangerous to Israel's interests than anything else.
I have blood relatives in Israel and wish them happiness and safety. But they live on land that was taken--by force or by resolutions made by those who had no right to--and to deny that is untruthful before God. Too many otherwise rational and progressive Jews still cling to the ingrained superstition that the Creator of the Universe would hand out little parcels to particular people with an unbreakable lease unto eternity.
164
"Peace is more dangerous to Israel's interests than anything else."
You've stated the bottom line quite clearly.
You've stated the bottom line quite clearly.
3
Well said. We have a double standard in North America. We support the Jews right to Israel while treating the original owners of the land we occupy as trash. Come to think of it that's what's happening to the Palestinians.
5
Um, perhaps you should read some history.
In the 1930's, the British proposed a division of the mandate into two states. The Arab side refused.
In the 1940's, the UN proposed a division of the mandate into two states. The Arabs refused, and attacked. And mostly lost territory.
In 1967, when asked to restrain themselves, the Jordanian army joined in the Arab war against Israel; and in the process, lost territory. Meeting in Khartoum, the Arab side refused to talk, refused recognition of any borders, and waited.
At Camp David, Arafat was offered almost all of the West Bank. And refused.
Because at the end of the day the Arabs wish not to negotiate the borders, but to erase them...and recover that which they couldn't get either by negotiation or force.
So what is the Palestinian offer? Has there ever been one?
In the 1930's, the British proposed a division of the mandate into two states. The Arab side refused.
In the 1940's, the UN proposed a division of the mandate into two states. The Arabs refused, and attacked. And mostly lost territory.
In 1967, when asked to restrain themselves, the Jordanian army joined in the Arab war against Israel; and in the process, lost territory. Meeting in Khartoum, the Arab side refused to talk, refused recognition of any borders, and waited.
At Camp David, Arafat was offered almost all of the West Bank. And refused.
Because at the end of the day the Arabs wish not to negotiate the borders, but to erase them...and recover that which they couldn't get either by negotiation or force.
So what is the Palestinian offer? Has there ever been one?
9
Nothing will stop Netanyahu (and his base of right-wing religious fanatics) so long as he is constantly told that "[the U.S.] has his back."
137
This article was very informative and contains info that strangely is absent from the US public in our news media.
I was struck by how modern the settlements look. How does their standard of living compare to that in the US? It appears comparable to what we have.
Why is it that the US provides billions of dollars in "aid" to Israel..?
...especially when many other countries are living in abject poverty, eg Haiti.
I was struck by how modern the settlements look. How does their standard of living compare to that in the US? It appears comparable to what we have.
Why is it that the US provides billions of dollars in "aid" to Israel..?
...especially when many other countries are living in abject poverty, eg Haiti.
83
Israel is the second biggest recipient of U.S. foreign aid. Go figure.
6
It would have been better to negotiate peace with Palestinians than building new settlements. One way decisions cannot work in the long run. Israel is democratic society and it should practice that virtue
3
USA should try to enforce UN mandated sanctions in these territories which only help provoke atrocities where only the common man dies .
I am not sure which Palestinian person in their right state of mind and free speech would love to live in Israel unless its his ancestral land taken by some British legal maneuver in the 1960's overnight.
I am not sure which Palestinian person in their right state of mind and free speech would love to live in Israel unless its his ancestral land taken by some British legal maneuver in the 1960's overnight.
4
Why do media always show men with black hats? The Haredi are not representative of typical Israelis. People on the streets of Israel look just like those on the streets of Chicago or Los Angeles. It's about time Israelis and Jews in general got a new world image.
13
Perhaps it is because the Israelis with the "black hats' have the largest families and are those most in need of land for homes. And since their males primarily study Torah all the time, the homes they have need not be convenient to the secular Israeli economy.
14
"“From 1920, when this conflict effectively began, until 1967, there wasn’t a single Israeli settlement or a single Israeli soldier in the territories, and yet this conflict raged. What was that conflict about? It was about the persistent refusal to recognize a Jewish state, before it was established and after it was established.” Netanyahu said
Wouldn't expect anything else from Bibi. The Israeli right finds it rhetorically convenient to brush the expulsion of Palestinians from the homes and the destruction of their towns in 1948 (in blatant violation of the UN partition agreement), the Suez crisis, the war of '82 and of course, the occupation which is about to be 60 years old. None of those could ever be ground for grievance he says.
Wouldn't expect anything else from Bibi. The Israeli right finds it rhetorically convenient to brush the expulsion of Palestinians from the homes and the destruction of their towns in 1948 (in blatant violation of the UN partition agreement), the Suez crisis, the war of '82 and of course, the occupation which is about to be 60 years old. None of those could ever be ground for grievance he says.
10
You're making Bibi's point for him. The Palestinians selectively, erratically, and prolifically cite various inconsistent and conflicting reasons for hating Israel. Bibi's statement relates to one of these "reasons" and the subject of this article -- i.e., the "settlements." His point, which you make so eloquently here, is that, even if the settlement "problem" were solved, the Palestinians would come right back with an earlier (or later) grievance to use as a justification for further terrorism and an argument for further Israeli concessions. This negotiation/debating tactic is one that parents of 10 year-olds are quite familiar with.
8
This entire article is based one primary--but completely unexplored--assumption: that the settlements impede the creation of a Palestinian state. But why is that so? Why doesn't Ms. Rudoren explain why the mere existence of Jews living within the West Bank constitutes a fatal wound to the dream of Palestinian statehood?
Sure, I've heard several explanations (none in this article). They relate to issues like contiguity of territory and access to resources (i.e., water). But those issues don't relate to the existence of Jewish settlements per se, but only to the continued existence of Israeli AUTHORITY over those settlements. What if the Palestinians were given sovereignty over the territory on which these settlements stand? Wouldn't that solve the settlement problem? Of course, it wouldn't. That's because the REAL reason the Palestinians don't like the settlements is the same reason why they don't like Israel proper -- they simply don't like Jews living on what they perceive to be their land. Contrast that with Israel's acceptance of 1.5 million Israeli arabs within Israel's recognized boundaries. Abbas himself has said (numerous times) that a prerequisite of a Palestinian state is the absence of "settlers" within it-- NOT "settlements," mind you, but "settlers."
When writing an expose on the big, bad settlements, it's worthwhile to explain why exactly they're problematic. Ignoring this important question does everyone a disservice.
Sure, I've heard several explanations (none in this article). They relate to issues like contiguity of territory and access to resources (i.e., water). But those issues don't relate to the existence of Jewish settlements per se, but only to the continued existence of Israeli AUTHORITY over those settlements. What if the Palestinians were given sovereignty over the territory on which these settlements stand? Wouldn't that solve the settlement problem? Of course, it wouldn't. That's because the REAL reason the Palestinians don't like the settlements is the same reason why they don't like Israel proper -- they simply don't like Jews living on what they perceive to be their land. Contrast that with Israel's acceptance of 1.5 million Israeli arabs within Israel's recognized boundaries. Abbas himself has said (numerous times) that a prerequisite of a Palestinian state is the absence of "settlers" within it-- NOT "settlements," mind you, but "settlers."
When writing an expose on the big, bad settlements, it's worthwhile to explain why exactly they're problematic. Ignoring this important question does everyone a disservice.
27
It has to do with sovereignty. If there were two states, the Jewish settlements would be under Palestinian rule. And if the Jewish settlers were unhappy with that rule, Israel would actively act on their behalf. We consider it unacceptable aggression when the Russians act on behalf of Russians living within the Ukraine. A Palestinain state without sovereignty is no state at all.
10
What makes you think that Israel would act on the settlers' behalf? Has anyone said so? Has anyone raised this with the Israelis? I imagine that, if the Palestinians made a commitment to securing the safety of the Jewish inhabitants of its state, there would be no need for Israel to act on their behalf. In any event, you have as much evidence for your unsupported theory as I do for the proposition that a newly created Palestinian state would "actively act on behalf" of Israeli arabs living in Israel. If that's the best you can come up with, it appears I've made my point.
5
You're being disingenuous if you think that the settlements don't come with Israeli authority behind. If, say as you propose, the settlements are allowed on Palestinian land, and there's even a whiff of conflict, wouldn't Israel come to the rescue invading? If you have followed the peace process, you know that the Israelis want clear guarantees on the safety of Jews. Do you think that the settlers would not want more land if they weren't under Israeli authority? (Think of pre-1949 times.) The conflict is all but guaranteed between Jews and Palestinians in an independent Palestinian state, given that the Palestinian authority hasn't even the pull to properly govern now.
3
The most harrowing development is the shift in religious makeup of settlers and settler advocates. The religious and ultra-Orthodox parties in the Knesset had always vehemently opposed settlements, but gov't subsidized housing in West Bank settlements attracted hordes of religious and ultra-Orthodox Israelis, who often boast large families but moderate incomes.
These economically motivated settlers have become more and more nationalist and right wing over the decades, and as a consequence the religious parties in the Knesset (around 20% of all seats) have become a stalwart ally of Likud and the far-right, whereas previously they would have just as likely joined a left-led coalition. The birthrate among the ultra-Orthodox settlers far outpaces that of the secular settlers, and they will inexorably become the majority population among settlers in the very near future.
Adding the toxicity of religious nationalism to the Israeli-West Bank equation will undoubtedly kill any hope of a final two-state agreement along 1967 borders. The only next step available, as uncomfortable as it may be, is recognizing that the peace process is dead, for which the PA and Israel are both at fault.
Israel will never annex the West Bank, because it would lose its Jewish majority. Thus West Bank Palestinians will continue to languish under occupation for decades, as second class citizens, with no prospect of a state of their own. Is that apartheid? It's close, and Israelis should recognize that.
These economically motivated settlers have become more and more nationalist and right wing over the decades, and as a consequence the religious parties in the Knesset (around 20% of all seats) have become a stalwart ally of Likud and the far-right, whereas previously they would have just as likely joined a left-led coalition. The birthrate among the ultra-Orthodox settlers far outpaces that of the secular settlers, and they will inexorably become the majority population among settlers in the very near future.
Adding the toxicity of religious nationalism to the Israeli-West Bank equation will undoubtedly kill any hope of a final two-state agreement along 1967 borders. The only next step available, as uncomfortable as it may be, is recognizing that the peace process is dead, for which the PA and Israel are both at fault.
Israel will never annex the West Bank, because it would lose its Jewish majority. Thus West Bank Palestinians will continue to languish under occupation for decades, as second class citizens, with no prospect of a state of their own. Is that apartheid? It's close, and Israelis should recognize that.
33
I was in the Palestinian territories in August 2003. It was very clear to me and objectively obvious that the "settlements" were permanent. Luxurious while the Palestinian roads through their land were purposefully destroyed. The "settlers" or should we not be PC and say occupiers traveled on their own roads that kept them from seeing and feeling the apartheid. It's a political problem more than bad people closing their eyes to bad things. Just like the racial issues we are now saying have ended and are celebrating. My grandmother used to call black people "little black clouds" although, since she said it in Polish, it sounded much more poetic.
21
Aside from the deep social complexities revealed in this piece, I must compliment The NYT on the amazing use of graphics, images and multimedia to tell this story. Compelling, beautiful and haunting.
9
Netanyahu will be an easy act to follow. The warmongering will stop.
6
That is a fantasy unfortunately. Whoever wins the election will still have PA/Hamas to deal with, neither of whom will accept any peace agreement with Israel. They haven't and wont even state under what terms they would make peace, ie accept Israel's existence.
6
Did Netanyahu ever start a war.
No.
He had to defend Israel after they were attacked.
Why do you call him a warmonger when Hamas has a charter stating they want to obliterate Israel.
What should he do.
Just take it like Jews did in Europe
I call him a patriot.
Never again.
No.
He had to defend Israel after they were attacked.
Why do you call him a warmonger when Hamas has a charter stating they want to obliterate Israel.
What should he do.
Just take it like Jews did in Europe
I call him a patriot.
Never again.
4
All this article and pictures prove is the Jewish people's amazing ability to build and prosper. Long live Israel!
26
and steal palestinian land
7
Go read up on some history - this was always Jewish land. Maybe all the Arab countries should have thought twice about attacking Israel in '48. Once again, look at the stark contrast - Israelis build beautiful, prosperous, law-abiding, family-oriented communities. Have you seen what happens when Israel gives land to Palestinians? See southern Lebanon (Hezbollah) and Gaza (Hamas) as perfect examples...
7
So your history starts at 1948? You have to go back much further than that. Accordign to the Jews that land belongs to them, is their word law?
1
The fact is that these "facts on the ground" hinder prospects for peace by taking more land from a potential Palestinian state and adding more humiliations to the daily lives of Palestinians. When Netanyahu recommends that European Jews move to Israel, an obvious question is raised about where new citizens would live, which shows what a tactic, rather than necessity, settlement building is.
258
Sort of us as we moved West taking land from the Indians. Since the Arab view of Israel has not changed since before there were settlements (anyone remember the original 5 wars/conflicts?) does it make any difference if the "West Bank" is given to the PLO/Hamas? Since we saw what happened when Gaza was returned is it wise to give the "West Bank" back?
1
@NM
Hmmmm . . . Does memory fail me, or did the state of Israel come into being because of a series of incidents in which it became apparent that for some reason there wasn't a lot of room for Jews in Europe?
There is plenty of room for all the Jews of Europe, should they so desire (and I'm guessing they don't) to settle in Israel.
And guess what -- there is plenty of room for the Palestinian Arabs who have since 1947-48 refused every legitimate peace and land offer to claim their rights to a sovereign state, or to resettle in Jordan, Lebanon, Egypt, or any other of the 20 Muslim states surrounding them.
Oh, I forgot. Jordan and Lebanon still don't accord full rights to their Palestinian residents. And Egypt isn't happy with its neighbors in Gaza either.
This "fix" will require more than getting rid of Bibi and/or the settlements.
Hmmmm . . . Does memory fail me, or did the state of Israel come into being because of a series of incidents in which it became apparent that for some reason there wasn't a lot of room for Jews in Europe?
There is plenty of room for all the Jews of Europe, should they so desire (and I'm guessing they don't) to settle in Israel.
And guess what -- there is plenty of room for the Palestinian Arabs who have since 1947-48 refused every legitimate peace and land offer to claim their rights to a sovereign state, or to resettle in Jordan, Lebanon, Egypt, or any other of the 20 Muslim states surrounding them.
Oh, I forgot. Jordan and Lebanon still don't accord full rights to their Palestinian residents. And Egypt isn't happy with its neighbors in Gaza either.
This "fix" will require more than getting rid of Bibi and/or the settlements.
2
Facts on the ground are a tool of the pa and hamas,know your history,the call for Jews to come home,referred to France and Europe in general ,due to the up tick of terrorism there against the Jews.So in a nut shell,your statement is askew.
1
Does anyone not believe Israel's settlements policies contribute to Muslim radicalization in the world?
220
What DOESN'T contribute to Muslim radicalization? For God's sake, a bunch of French guys drawing cartoons sparks massive unrest in Muslim countries. Should we get rid of cartoons? At the end of the day, the buck stops with the person wielding the knife, pulling the trigger, etc. A bunch of Jews living in their ancestral homeland isn't an excuse (even a reasonable motivation) for murder, terrorism, and radicalization.
ISIS could show up on Wall Street tomorrow and claim they own downtown Manhattan. That doesn't mean they do. And it certainly doesn't mean we're doing anything wrong by building there.
ISIS could show up on Wall Street tomorrow and claim they own downtown Manhattan. That doesn't mean they do. And it certainly doesn't mean we're doing anything wrong by building there.
14
I'm vehemently opposed to the settlements, but I don't think they have anything to do with Muslim radicalization. The Arabs fought two wars to wipe Israel off the map before there was even one settlement. Look at the mayhem around the Arab/Muslim world, the lack of basic human rights and human dignity in so many of those countries, the bombs and mayhem used by one Muslim against another. To blame the settlements for the cruelty and mass murder of innocents in Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Afganistan, Pakistan, etc. just has nothing to do with reality.
6
I believe Pres Obama is on the right track for peace in the middle east. He knows that a nuclear Iran will force Israel to cede land for a Palestinian State. These settlement will make no difference once a free Palestine is established. The creation of a Palestinian State will virtually bring peace to the middle east over night. A strong Iran will force all dissident groups to lay down their weapons.
Now we see why Pres Obama won the Nobel Peace Prize. He is letting Iran do the heavy lifting but in the end Pres Obama will get credit for the creation of a free and independent Palestinian State and peace in the middle east.
Now we see why Pres Obama won the Nobel Peace Prize. He is letting Iran do the heavy lifting but in the end Pres Obama will get credit for the creation of a free and independent Palestinian State and peace in the middle east.
4
I hope you're right.
1
Thank You eye@tool la,we were wondering when he would get the credit he deserves,not.
Nobody in these settlements contemplates a move back to the borders that existed in 1967 and no Israeli government will ever contemplate moving these Israelis back. The Palestinians may well have won the propaganda war but possession is nine points of the law and they don't possess the ability to dislodge the occupants.
10
Agreed. So what's next? Do settlements simply continue to sprawl for decades and West Bank Palestinians continue to live under occupation without political rights?
5
There is no doubt that no Israel leader has had any intention of reaching an agreement. The only agreement that they were willing to countenance was a Swiss cheese type of accord, with Palestinian villages hemmed in by roads and Israel settlements and Israel controlling the borders. This was the "generous" offer that supporters of Israel keep on mentioning. The toothless American policy has contributed immeasurably to the situation by accepting each illegal settlement without a whimper. Accepting each humiliation with its head down. Israel has always created "realities on the ground" and has no intention of abandoning them. And, by the way, they, the hardcore supporters, as Adelson has said, don't care if Israel ceases to be a democracy. The only preoccupation of the right-wing government is the possibility that Iran, with a bomb, will create a mutually destructive impasse that will reduce somewhat Israel's
dominance. Some supporters, like J Schwartz, fall back on the "they won and therefore the spoils are theirs" as a justification. Even accepting that, why is this inexorable building of illegal settlements going on when there is no war, unless of course, there is a war going on in which case both occupation and resistance are legitimate. Something that is not generally accepted. I see no possibility of a solution, unless there is a rethinking in both America and the rest of the world. Don't expect it.
dominance. Some supporters, like J Schwartz, fall back on the "they won and therefore the spoils are theirs" as a justification. Even accepting that, why is this inexorable building of illegal settlements going on when there is no war, unless of course, there is a war going on in which case both occupation and resistance are legitimate. Something that is not generally accepted. I see no possibility of a solution, unless there is a rethinking in both America and the rest of the world. Don't expect it.
83
Sounds like you missed -- or wanted to miss -- the two expansive proposals made by an Israeli Left/Labor prime minister with Bill Clinton sponsoring and a centrist prime minister offering 100% of Gaza, 95-97% of the West Bank with balancing land swaps with George Bush sponsoring (please explain how someone can have 97% of something but with Swiss cheese holes throughout), and a redivision of Jerusalem in return for an end once and for all to the conflict. The Palestinians rejected them both without counteroffer. You can look it up, Frank.
14
Israel should recognize a Palestinian republic, and vacate all the 'Settlements' intact, so that the Palestinians can move in. There would be some justice and decency involved in that. Israel can build new housing in Israel for the Jews who lave the unlawful West Bank settlements.
Of course, that's only if Israel actually wants peace in the Middle East.
Of course, that's only if Israel actually wants peace in the Middle East.
262
Why can't Jews live there like Muslims live in Israel.
14
An no security guarantees or a formal end of the conflict from the Palestinian side? Such as when Israel left Gaza unilaterally without precondition and dismantled every settlement there? What kind of peace did the Palestinians offer then, Brian? The peace of thousands of rockets fired on Israeli cities and terror attacks by Hamas?
14
nostone -
The Muslims in Israel are Israeli citizens, but the Jews in Palestine are not Israeli citizens. Furthermore the Jewish 'settlers' in Palestine have stolen the property from Palestinians, but the Palestinians have stolen property from no one.
If Israel granted citizenship to the Palestinians of the West Bank and Gaza, only then would it be ok for Israeli Jews to live in Palestine but only if the Palestinian landowners agreed to it.
Let me ask you, in the 21st century, is it ok for non-American Indians to move in and build 'Settlements' in American Indians reservations, while destroying American Indian properties?
For that matter, is it alright for me to knock down nostone's home and trees, and to build my own home on his/her property, without nostone's permission?
The Muslims in Israel are Israeli citizens, but the Jews in Palestine are not Israeli citizens. Furthermore the Jewish 'settlers' in Palestine have stolen the property from Palestinians, but the Palestinians have stolen property from no one.
If Israel granted citizenship to the Palestinians of the West Bank and Gaza, only then would it be ok for Israeli Jews to live in Palestine but only if the Palestinian landowners agreed to it.
Let me ask you, in the 21st century, is it ok for non-American Indians to move in and build 'Settlements' in American Indians reservations, while destroying American Indian properties?
For that matter, is it alright for me to knock down nostone's home and trees, and to build my own home on his/her property, without nostone's permission?
3
As always with Rudoren's articles, the distortions are legion. Where to begin? Jerusalem belongs to Israel. It always has and always will. The fact that Jews were forcibly removed in the past doesn't change that. Look at the pile of rubble and neglect it was when the Jews recaptured it and, like the rest of Israel, made it a beautiful, free and productive place. For EVERYONE. She alludes to the population growth, which is high among religious people. But the Arab birth rates are far higher--and why not, they get the same amazing health care in Israel as anyone else.
But above all, if only Times readers would look at the history: Arab massacres of Jews before Israel ever existed; refusal to accept a state in '48, even though it was far larger than what was granted the Jews; endless aggression and wars from the same surrounding nations that refused and still refuse to take in the Palestinian Arabs. They do not want peace; they have shown this over and over again. As Golda said: We will have peace when the Arabs love their children more than hate us.
But above all, if only Times readers would look at the history: Arab massacres of Jews before Israel ever existed; refusal to accept a state in '48, even though it was far larger than what was granted the Jews; endless aggression and wars from the same surrounding nations that refused and still refuse to take in the Palestinian Arabs. They do not want peace; they have shown this over and over again. As Golda said: We will have peace when the Arabs love their children more than hate us.
44
I don't understand why Jerusalem "always has and always will" belong to Israel.
Don't places belong to groups that can defend them from foreign incursions? There is no historical claim to any land on the planet. Whoever can defend it, gets it.
It is sad to see land wasted and beautiful architecture and natural features destroyed and neglected, but in holding land, might makes right and there are no other rules.
Don't places belong to groups that can defend them from foreign incursions? There is no historical claim to any land on the planet. Whoever can defend it, gets it.
It is sad to see land wasted and beautiful architecture and natural features destroyed and neglected, but in holding land, might makes right and there are no other rules.
3
Andrea: "David's City" was captured, not built by the Israelites. It had its own history before it became the center of Jewish mythmaking.
It's helpful to really read the Torah, and gain a little bit of understanding of the brutal conquest of land that was fully inhabited by other people, with cities and productive farmland and a variety of cultures. Jews as we are today--or millennia ago--were never indigenous to that little patch of ground.
It's helpful to really read the Torah, and gain a little bit of understanding of the brutal conquest of land that was fully inhabited by other people, with cities and productive farmland and a variety of cultures. Jews as we are today--or millennia ago--were never indigenous to that little patch of ground.
7
I've looked at the history of the region and there were Jewish massacres of Arabs as well (Balad al-shayk, Deir Yassin, King David Hotel bombing). There were also assassinations of Diplomatic delegates by Jewish terrorist groups (Lord Moyne, Bernadotte).
Arabs occupied that land for 2000 years before the Jews "returned". That is is a longer period of time than the existence of the second temple. I think that gives them some right to the land.
The argument that the Jews "deserve" the land because they made it beautiful is bogus and racist. It's an argument that has been used by European colonialists time and again to justify the subjugation of other peoples.
Arabs occupied that land for 2000 years before the Jews "returned". That is is a longer period of time than the existence of the second temple. I think that gives them some right to the land.
The argument that the Jews "deserve" the land because they made it beautiful is bogus and racist. It's an argument that has been used by European colonialists time and again to justify the subjugation of other peoples.
9
All my life I've heard of the tribulations of the Jews and Palestinians. I suspect it will be no different 1000 years from now (if humans still roam the Earth then).
7
You must be pretty young because the Palestinian "narrative" was only invented a few decades ago.
7
Of course the NY Times wouldn't be the NY Times if it had also mentioned in this article that Netanyahu at the urging of President Obama ordered a 10-month moratorium on settlements in a bid to get the Palestinians back to the negotiating table. Instead, Mahmoud Abbas rope-a-doped for nine months refusing to resume any talks (the same tactic he used in response to centrist prime minister Ehud Olmert's peace offer of 97% of the West Bank, balancing land swaps, 100% of Gaza + a redivision of Jerusalem in return for a end to the conflict once and for all). Then in the tenth month, instead of finally sitting down, demanded an extension. But the NY Times IS the NY Times, and so this is completely ignored. So once again, it's all big bad Israel with the poor wittle bitty Palestininans completely pure and blameless.
30
Abbas is apparently not such a fool as to think a short moratorium on settlements means anything.
17
Point was, the moratorium was a condition set by the Palestinians without which no discussions could be held. When his bluff was called, there turned out to be lots of other reasons....suggesting that there is nothing fundamental about the settlements.
7
Why does no-one mention the other side, that the territory was captured in the 1967 war (which was pre-1967 Jordanian territory but Jordan is not interested in the territory no more), and was captured after the Arabs began a war that almost destroyed Israel and the territory was captured in self-defense.
And, why no mention that the main obstacle to a 2 state solution is because the Palestinians and Arabs refuse to agree to acquiescence to the State of Israel or to the rights of Jews even in Israel proper. Its not the settlements that the issue in the Holy Land - its the Arabs hatred and wish to annihilate for the State of Israel and Jews and Israelis.
Many Palestinians want to be a part of Israel -- you know why ? Because they are treated by Israel better than any other state in the region or any other Arab government, with full liberties and rights. Try these liberties in Iran or Saudi Arabia or Turkey or anywhere else ...And look what independence from Israel got the Palistinians in Gaza (which it seems many commentators would like the Palestinians to have).
And, why no mention that the main obstacle to a 2 state solution is because the Palestinians and Arabs refuse to agree to acquiescence to the State of Israel or to the rights of Jews even in Israel proper. Its not the settlements that the issue in the Holy Land - its the Arabs hatred and wish to annihilate for the State of Israel and Jews and Israelis.
Many Palestinians want to be a part of Israel -- you know why ? Because they are treated by Israel better than any other state in the region or any other Arab government, with full liberties and rights. Try these liberties in Iran or Saudi Arabia or Turkey or anywhere else ...And look what independence from Israel got the Palistinians in Gaza (which it seems many commentators would like the Palestinians to have).
47
Are you asserting that Israel has had no role in what the Palestinians "got" in Gaza?
2
Jordan has absorbed millions of Palestinians; it's estimated that they make-up half of its population. 1967 was a long time ago, and Israel is not vulnerable, on the contrary, it is undeniably in a position of strength.
The obstacles to the 2-state solution are many. The most arbitrary one is the Israeli right's insistence that the Palestinians declare that Israel is a Jewish state. 20% of Israel is Muslim/Christian, just like 20% the United States is African American. But the US doesn't force anyone to declare that the United States is a white country. This is a semantic and bigoted hoop that the Palestinians refuse to jump through, and rightfully so.
Lastly, comparing Israel to its dysfunctional neighbors proves nothing, it just sets the bar lower and lower. Israel is a modern, rich, first-world country with strong historical ties to Western leaders and business. It should be holding itself to standards befitting its status, not to those of the religious zealots and the backward.
The obstacles to the 2-state solution are many. The most arbitrary one is the Israeli right's insistence that the Palestinians declare that Israel is a Jewish state. 20% of Israel is Muslim/Christian, just like 20% the United States is African American. But the US doesn't force anyone to declare that the United States is a white country. This is a semantic and bigoted hoop that the Palestinians refuse to jump through, and rightfully so.
Lastly, comparing Israel to its dysfunctional neighbors proves nothing, it just sets the bar lower and lower. Israel is a modern, rich, first-world country with strong historical ties to Western leaders and business. It should be holding itself to standards befitting its status, not to those of the religious zealots and the backward.
14
Recognize reality, annex the West Bank, give full rights of citizenship to all occupants of Israel/Palestine, tear down the security barriers and behave like a unified nation. That's where it's headed (the annexation part, at least), so they both might as well go all in.
1
The settlements speak louder than words.
170
Let's say that Mr. Herzog comes out on top and even manages to form a coalition. He is on record as stating that settlement blocs remain with land swaps. And what land swaps would they be? Haluza desert? Not acceptable to Palestinians. The solution would be the "Triangle", Arab towns that straddle the Green Line (e.g Kafr Qara, Arara, Baqa, Umm el-Fahm, Qalansawe, Tayibe etc.). These residents have expressed tremendous opposition to cease being Israel; they want to remain in Israel and not become part of Palestine.
So another option is total withdrawal? Unlikely from the Israeli side. So what is so different with Mr. Herzog? He will offer what Ehud Barak and Ehud Olmert offered and the Palestinians turned down.
The Palestinians live in a time warp, whether it is 1948 or 1967. They sought to destroy Israel and lost. There is a price to pay.
While Israel may also be partly in a time warp: historical Judaea and Samaria, they won.
If the Palestinians had accepted the offer of a state in 1948 or if the Arabs had not fought in 1967, they could have had a state. They could have had a state in 2000 and 2008.
Mr. Herzog's father, Chaim Herzog, former President of Israel had also served as head of military intelligence. Mr. Herzog, also served in military intelligence. He knows what "Auschwitz borders" are.
So Mr. Herzog is more polite, but he is boxed in by the Palestinian demand for "justice". They could have had a deal long ago and still can if they are pragmatic.
So another option is total withdrawal? Unlikely from the Israeli side. So what is so different with Mr. Herzog? He will offer what Ehud Barak and Ehud Olmert offered and the Palestinians turned down.
The Palestinians live in a time warp, whether it is 1948 or 1967. They sought to destroy Israel and lost. There is a price to pay.
While Israel may also be partly in a time warp: historical Judaea and Samaria, they won.
If the Palestinians had accepted the offer of a state in 1948 or if the Arabs had not fought in 1967, they could have had a state. They could have had a state in 2000 and 2008.
Mr. Herzog's father, Chaim Herzog, former President of Israel had also served as head of military intelligence. Mr. Herzog, also served in military intelligence. He knows what "Auschwitz borders" are.
So Mr. Herzog is more polite, but he is boxed in by the Palestinian demand for "justice". They could have had a deal long ago and still can if they are pragmatic.
22
"He will offer what Ehud Barak and Ehud Olmert offered and the Palestinians turned down."
Maybe they will, maybe they won't. But even if they do turn this offer down again, the moral onus to not make peace falls on the Palestinians. For diaspora Jews, what a pleasant change from the Netanyahu years.
Maybe they will, maybe they won't. But even if they do turn this offer down again, the moral onus to not make peace falls on the Palestinians. For diaspora Jews, what a pleasant change from the Netanyahu years.
1
It was publicized last week in Yediot Ahronot, no friend of Mr. Netanyahu, that Attorney Yitzchak Molcho, negotiating for Mr. Netanyahu in secret with the Palestinians, went further than Ehud Olmert and Ehud Barak and that the Palestinian response was to turn this down and use that proposal only as leverage for more demands. Needless to say those negotiations fell apart and Mr. Netanyahu's attitude changed.
Perhaps for Diaspora Jews Mr. Herzog might be a "pleasant change", but that is not enough and Mr. Herzog knows that. The Palestinians are never blamed for their refusals, moral onus not withstanding.
Perhaps for Diaspora Jews Mr. Herzog might be a "pleasant change", but that is not enough and Mr. Herzog knows that. The Palestinians are never blamed for their refusals, moral onus not withstanding.
11
The 'onus' was not on those who lived under apartheid in SA, but upon the oppressor. As it should be.
1
As an older American of Jewish background and faith, and as someone who has always been a strong supporter of Israel politically and with my wallet, in spite of ambivalence about the governments of Sharon and Netanyahu, reading this article gives me a deep sense of both shame and foreboding. Shame because of the blatant disregard for the rights of Palestinians who are human beings no less than us. And foreboding, because without a real two-state solution, the prospects for war and terrorism always remain high--and all these tens of thousands of settlements in the West Bank make a two-state solution almost impossible.
312
Its not the settlements that wont allow for peace, its the sheer hate of the Leaders of the Palestinians for Israel. You can be sure the Arabs will be better off under the Israelis than under any Palestinian Government with full liberties etc, whereas under Arab Governments all liberties are trampled on.
17
You're right, David, it's a one-way street. Sigh.
4
Yes, I agree that many Palestinians hate Israel, and irrationally at that. But wouldn't you hate a group that stole your land, that killed your children as if their lives were worthless, that treated you as manual servants, that responded to slingshots with massive bombs and that made you live as if every one of your fellows were a criminal, whether they had committed anti-Israeli acts or not.
7
Aren't these Israeli settlements being built on land that was captured by Israel after they were attacked from the same land in 1967? Israel did not initiate the attack. Jordan did, backed by Israel's other neighboring Islamic countries. Why give it back, and provide these same Arab countries a platform from which to launch similar attacks in the future. The settlements serve as a buffer against further Arab aggression, and they also serve as a reminder to these same countries that there is a price to be paid for their aggression.
42
The settlements are not a buffer against attacks, they provoke them.
232
And if these lands are supposedly so sacred to the "Palestinian nation", why weren't they resisting Jordan's occupation of these lands from 1948 through 1967 when Israel captured it during an existential war started by the five surrounding Arab countries? Why did the PLO charter even recognize Jordan's sovereignty over the West Bank and their supposedly sacred capitol of East Jerusalem until Jordan finally relinquished its claim in 1988? And of course that begs the question that if these lands were perfectly acceptable to the Palestinians when Jordan ruled them, then which land was it exactly they were demanding then?
15
A one-state solution is the only solution. Equal rights for all. Those who have had their property stolen from them get compensation. All are citizens following the same rule of law. This is the only way to live in the modern world.
16
Imagine is Russia started setting up homes in Alaska, staling peoples land--what would we do?
Imagine if Native Americans stated setting up homes in Manhattan--what would we do?
These "Settlements" are obviously illegal, yet we turn away and pretend not.
No wonder we are not trusted in the Middle East!
Especially now when the GOP brags that President Obama's Executive Agreements with Iran will not matter.
What are our Arab neighbors and Brothers to think?
Imagine if Native Americans stated setting up homes in Manhattan--what would we do?
These "Settlements" are obviously illegal, yet we turn away and pretend not.
No wonder we are not trusted in the Middle East!
Especially now when the GOP brags that President Obama's Executive Agreements with Iran will not matter.
What are our Arab neighbors and Brothers to think?
140
Don't forget that most if not all illegal settlements are built with US Taxpayer money.
185
Russia willingly sold Atlaska to the US; so it has no claim. The Native Americans signed peace treaties with the Anglo settlers who formed the US. So they ended their claims to all the land. The Jews never signed any deal with the Romans who brutally seized it from them relinquishing their historic homeland and thus ending any claims to it, nor with the powers that conquered it afterwards, whether the Byzantines, the Arabs, or the Turks. So your comparison doesn't wash.
8
No wonder we are hated in the Muslim world!
And BTW, American taxpayers support the universal healthcare that all israelis have that Americans do not have!
And BTW, American taxpayers support the universal healthcare that all israelis have that Americans do not have!
24
An immensely important Times story, helpfully aided by vivid photos of the actual living conditions in the settlements. I don't always give the Times coverage of the Palestinian/Israel conflict thumbs up. However in this case the imagery tells the tale, as well the charts documenting the pattern of settlement development over the course of various Israeli governments.
104
And we say Cark,natural growth,Israels population is close to 9million,they need housing,we agree.
The settlements by Israel on Palestinian land, as a matter of course, seems now a state policy, making a mockery of any pretense to solve the issue of a two state solution, side to side, and enjoy, finally, peace and security.
174
Always fascinating...how is this Palestinian land? There has been/is no de facto regime in the West Bank, and has not been since 1948...when there was no Palestinian anything (except the Palestine Post and the Palestine Symphony, both of which represented the Jewish residents of Palestine). A majority vote of all the countries with Islamic majorities? Property deeds? Success in eradicating the prior Jewish populations?
11
So I take it you will, in the cause of decency, campaign for those Palestinians who reside in the west bank to be afforded full Israeli citizenship with full political rights. Or is their ethnic background an inconvenience?
1
It's little wonder that Dante Aligheri situated Hell directly under Jerusalem. It is a land that will never see peace.
44
Perhaps the Iranians should demand that Israel abandon these settlements as a precondition to negotiation on their nuclear program. Netanyahu seems to be big on no negotiations unless an opposing party cease its aggressive behavior.
204
If Iran made that demand, our president would surely acquiesce. Complain all you want about Netanyahu's holding out for a better deal -- a tough negotiator is way better than the "how can I serve you?" negotiating tactics employed by Obama.
5
Iran doesn't give two hoots about the Palestinians.
13
How can your comment get 25 recommends when it makes no sense.
What does the negotiations with Iran have to do with Israel.
The negotiations is between the USA and Iran and the West Bank settlements
arer unrelated to that issue.
What does the negotiations with Iran have to do with Israel.
The negotiations is between the USA and Iran and the West Bank settlements
arer unrelated to that issue.
11
Ignoring this information misrepresents the actual impact of the settlements and denies the role of the P.A. in the failure of the peace talks. It does take two to tango.