I wish someone had thought to do a reworking of the piece with the current Russian national anthem in the place of La Marseillaise and the Ukrainian national anthem in place of "God Save the Tsar."
This is spectacularly stupid. First of all, the piece is about Russia's response to an invader, Napoleon; it doesn't celebrate Russian aggression against anybody. Secondly, refusing to play Russian music isn't going to do a thing to defend the Ukrainian people. It's symbolism for the sake of symbolism, which is usually worthless. And this is coming from someone who's always thought the 1812 was one of the few truly bad things Tchaikovsky ever wrote. If people like hearing it, though, and these orchestras have traditionally played it, they should keep playing it. This piece is irrelevant to Putin's aggression against Ukraine. In fact, not playing it amounts to a kind of anti-Russian xenophobia, not solidarity with Ukraine.
4
Let's play music form Americans of Ukrainian ancestry if we're going to cancel Tsiolkovsky:
Lenny Bernstein (both parents were Ukrainian)
Michael Bolton
Bob Dylan
Bill Evans
Stan Getz
Vladimir Horowitz
Peter Ostroushko
Steven Tyler
Also no more of The Nutcracker either (hear the ballet companies howl at that!)
2
It's kind of ironic that the 1812 Overture gets dropped when it was commissioned to celebrate the defeat of Napoleon and his attempt to squash Russian sovereignty. Celebrating defeats to imperialist military actions is actually a pretty appropriate freedom call at this time.
2
This piece was intended as a one-off for the Moscow celebration at the time, a common practice in the 19th century. Beethoven’s “Wellington’s Victory” is an example (not worth listening to if you’ve never heard of it). I loved 1812 as a kid but then grew up. Apparently Tchaikovsky dashed it off and thought it would be forgotten, and was horrified that it became popular; he apparently tried to suppress it but failed. I’m amazed by the comments here that it’s a great piece of music. It’s a pastiche of Russian folk tunes and La Marseilles and it’s well-put-together, but not, I repeat not, a work of genius. The bells and cannons make it perfect for an open-air concert. But frankly it’s not worth the time this debate is taking.
1
@Alex Kent With all due respect, Beethoven's, Wellington's Victory, is a great listen to these ears! If you are sleeping it will wake you up, and it contains some tuneful democratic melodies!
2
I wonder why fireworks are accompanied by the 1812 Overture instead of by Handel’s Music for the Royal Fireworks. I wonder that every year, regardless of the geopolitical situation.
4
It never makes sense to me why people would include non American music in 4th of July celebrations. It seems more appropriate if it is an all American program.
9
@Earthling :" It seems more appropriate if it is an all American program."
That's a good way to back into a justification of censorship. All things Russian are to be suspect.
“Other ensembles, including the Boston Pops and the National Symphony Orchestra in Washington, which typically perform the overture before large audiences on live television spectacles, are planning to proceed with the piece this year.”
Darn. I’ve never liked this overly long and noisy piece… even when I thought it was about the war of 1812 in the US.
1
A lot of people in the comments are equating not playing one particular piece with very explicit military connotations to “canceling” Russian orchestral music altogether. In reality, I think you’d be hard pressed to find any major American orchestra that isn’t planning to perform Russian rep regularly in the 22-23 season. There is plenty of great American music than can be performed to celebrate an American holiday, and we can save Russian pieces for literally any other occasion. (Not that many of us really feel like celebrating this time around!)
8
@Erin Norton, I would love to just hear a mix of folk music, contemporary music, and the obligatory Sousa marches.
1
Just about the dumbest thing one could do. As Leonard Bernstein once said, “music is about notes.”
5
Just play the ponderous piece of music and stop with the meaningless virtue signaling.
4
@MJN, do you actually like the 1812 Overture? What do you like about it?
Orchestras must always understand what music stands for.
A message of supporting Russian military is not right now.
We can all have a great July 4 without the 1812 Overture.
Play Stars and Stripes twice.
Play the Radetzky March.
Play the Choral Movement Beethoven 9th. Ode to Joy.
We can handle it.
And F Putin. F Russia. Have a Happy 4th.
8
@Dark Sunglasses :"Orchestras must always understand what music stands for.
A message of supporting Russian military is not right now."
Who's supporting Russian military?
1
@Jp
The entire piece is a celebration of a Russian military victory.
No one wants to ban the piece forever, but this just doesn't seem like the right year to play it.
1
I don’t really care one way or another about this, but I’d get behind banning the Nutcracker this Christmas.
5
@profljm
Nutcracker doesn't celebrate a Russian military victory.
1
Let's hope enough of the general populace remains educated enough throughout future generations to understand that the freedoms we enjoy were fought for and that freedom is not free. America was not discovered as-is, it was born of blood, death, and great ideas of how humans should live together and be governed, and of patriotism.
3
The 1812 Overture is not the composer's best work. The use of cannon is tasteless, and the orchestras have to wear hearing protection. Because of its preening triumphant nationalism, celebrating military culture, violence and death, it resonates deeply with the Star Spangled Banner. Same kind of music. 19th century nationalistic war hymns.
Instead, play music by American composers on July 4. Barber, Copland, Ives, Bernstein, Glass, Adams, and Carter.
Peace.
13
We've been attending the Cleveland Orchestra's 4th of July concerts since the late 80's. Their tradition has been to end the evening of patriotic music with a dramatic performance (yes, with "canons") of Tchaikovsky's '1812 Overture.'
Last night the conductor announced they would only be playing music written by American composers. No 1812 as a finale??? True, but Victory at Sea by Richard Rodgers and Robert Russell Bennett was a beautiful, if mellow replacement.
The '1812 Overture' has always seemed a little out of place for the 4th, but it is always a thrill to hear it.
I'm glad they didn't play it last night. I'll miss it.
The fireworks were great!
8
I enjoy listening to the 1812 Overture, but I have wondered over the years, long before the Ukraine invasion, how it became such a staple of our Independence Day celebrations. After all, the purpose of our July 4th is not to celebrate Russian victories. We have plenty of great American music to play on July 4th. The 1812 Overture can be and is played as part of other, non-holiday concerts.
7
@CH
1812 got its American premiere with the opening of Carnegie Hall on May 5, 1891, with Tchaikovsky himself waving the baton. But there were no cannons inside the concert hall. It was Arthur Fiedler, the inveterate showman and conductor of the Boston Pops, who programmed the 1812, with cannons, in 1975, and he suggested that the booming guns created the perfect segue into the Fourth of July fireworks extravaganza. And thus, the odd association of a Russian piece celebrating a victory in a war that America had nothing to do with became cemented into the wholly American celebration of the Fourth of July.
1
God save the Tsar was composed in the 1830's as the winning entry in a contest sponsored by reactionary Nicholas I. It became a step in the road to hyper-nationalism that met it's fate in 1914. Do we need this? FDR liked other tunes.
3
Rule if thumb:
If the person is no longer composing, but is now de-composing, the music stands.
9
A favorite Bach joke…”archeologists digging up Bach’s grave heard a scritch-scratching from inside…they opened up his casket and there he was decomposing!”
6
First get rid of this pestilential Russian Olive growing everywhere. Music is music. You can turn it off.
4
Freedom fries! I still will never forgive the French for not aiding and abetting our war of aggression based on lies in Iraq which was about enriching the evilest people in America. How dare any question our supreme power - I mean “the liberal order”. Clowns and villains - truly evil. The New York Times is an organ of a vile empire.
9
This is so stupid.
14
When will the Ukrainians take down the statues and monuments to Bohdan Zynoviy Mykhailovych Khmelnytsky, Hetman of the Zaporozhian Host, who in the 17th century sought to eradicate the Jews from Ukraine. Tens of thousands of Jews were slaughtered in the Khmelnytsky Uprising.
Just today I read a doctorate, or a synopsis of such, from the The Bohdan Khmelnytsky National University of Cherkasy.
Tchaikovsky is out because he celebrated the defeat of Napoleon by the Russians, but the Ukrainians for centuries celebrate a mass murderer of Jews and nobody (but Jews) bat an eyelash.
12
Yes let's cancel everything that's Russian. You mean we have been playing a Russian piece in celebration of the American Independence Day for years? Oops? /s
4
Well, I suppose this is inevitable. Still, Tchaikovsky's work renders la Marseillaise just as stirringly as God Save the Czar. If you know the words of the Marseillaise, you'll know it's 10 times as bloodthirsty as any God Save the Czar.
Still Napoleon was initially viewed as the bringer of Enlightenment to the Dark Empire of Czarism.
The point today is that the music is both classical and MARTIAL, which is the only reason it's performed, and 'martial' describes a lot of holiday fare. And football kick-offs. It's about time we purged civilian entertainments of all that nonsense.
2
Bah! Forget cancel culture! I hadn't been thinking about Tschaikowsky's "1812 Overture". But now I'm certain to play a recording of it! I refuse to let the scolds trash good music!
7
People. Get a grip on yourselves. Nobody is “cancelling Tchaikovsky.” Tchaikovsky will be absolutely fine.
People are attempting to be tasteful and appropriate in concert programming, that is literally all. I promise you, you will hear the stupid 1812 overture (that Tchaikovsky himself hated) some other time.
Also did no one else ever find it absolutely weird and absurd to hear “God Save the Tsar” blasting at top volume during the fireworks on previous Fourths? It’s been driving me nuts for decades for sheer incongruity.
9
A song celebrating an oligarchical despot defeating an oligarchical despot sounds ready made for America version 2022.
3
If he was alive in 1940, I'd bet Ronald Keller would have been right at home in the American First movement saying that we shouldn't get involved in the fight between the British and Germany.
As to Putin using the non-playing as a excuse to claim that people were trying to eliminate Russia's cultural history, let us remember that he has claimed the whole war was for the purpose to fight a Nazi controlled Ukraine. He doesn't need any excuses to make up his fiction.
4
And let’s not forget that Putin, as one of the reasons for this horrific, unjustified war, is intent on eradicating Ukraine’s cultural history.
Sometimes it’s nice to just enjoy a song and a spectacle on a holiday and not always think about “the deeper meaning” of everything. Bombarded daily with Ukraine news, it’s nice (until I read this piece) to spend American Independence Day in good spirits thinking about the great things this nation and its people have brought about for the world.
It’s a shame that you folks couldn’t take a one day pause from the daily scroll of “this is how everything relates to Ukraine and why you should feel bad about it.”
6
We need a new 4th of July composition that celebrates losers--because the Srpreme Court has turned us all in the direction of losing the most important thing we all have--democracy itself.
4
The 1812 Overture was a celebration of victory over a would-be conqueror. Like Putin, who clearly suffers from a Napoleonic complex. Written by a gay composer.
It absolutely should be played at 4th of July celebrations.
9
It is well documented that the Overture is a Russian nationalist piece which Tchaikovsky was commissioned to write and hated. It has been the fanfare tune to give festivals a bit of zip to the back drop of sex scenes in comedies. Sort of “wow ‘em” garbage that Tchaikovsky loathed, along with most knowledgeable musicians.
“Canceling it plays exactly into the narrative that Putin wants us all to believe: That the world wants to do away with the Russian culture,” We care what Putin thinks about cancel culture? When Russia has decimated life in Afganistan,Syria, and Ukraine? Yes, consider your autocratic dictatorship cancelled on all levels.
What do you think the sanctions are?
4
There is a wonderful piece by Ferde Grofe (who wrote the Grand Canyon Suite that would more more appropriate that 1812.
It is based on the War of 1812 and the defense of Fort McHenry which led to the writing of the Star-Spangled Banner.
You can hear it here:
https://youtu.be/_VRg7-uVuCk?t=1
and read about it here
https://www.tapsbugler.com/ode-to-the-star-spangled-banner/
This is a sign of a deeply unwell culture. The Napoleonic Wars are over. And when wars are over you make peace or you are destined to go to war again.
During the Cold War the arts were always used to being understanding between two cultures (US and Russia) who are very, very different. Bolshoi Ballet in the US and Van Cliburn played in the USSR.
Now people of Russian citizenship are not allowed to compete at Wimbledon.
This is insanity. We need to realize that both sides have the ability to kill almost everyone in the other nation. Our cultural institutions are baying for blood. How did our culture get so broken?
5
@Mick F
Orchestras declining to play one piece of music in one particular year does not constitute "our cultural institutions baying for blood."
How about Sibelius, Finlandia?! I can also see cannon fire easily being added to its ending! On a sidenote, back in the early 90's when I started teaching, I encountered a spring concert where my Junior High School's orchestra was scheduled to play Haydn's 3rd String Quartet! The melody is mostly known as The German National anthem, which was embraced by the Nazis! I mentioned to my principal, with many of the audience being recently arrived Russian emigres, there might be a rowdy protest! The selection was removed from the program and deleted from the nine hundred already printed programs! My budding in did not enable me to achieve tenure! Happy American Independence Day!!!
1
So now we are going to cancel out great works because we are at war with the country they were born in? Really?
2
This is Orwellian. One of the greatest pieces of art is to "disappear".
In any other conflict, VP Harris would be shuttling between Moscow and Kiev trying to get a cease fire (and a Noble Peace Prize in the process). Instead the Biden Admin has sent $55B it doesn't have and is screaming about Putin price hike on their way to a historic midterm loss.
After Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya - why is the media playing along.
2
@Tom
Shuttling by VP Harris or anyone else would do no good, and she and they know it. Moscow does not want a ceasefire. It wants to conquer and annex Ukraine.
It's good to see that someone is finally standing up to those Russians. Let's storm the public libraries and make bonfires on the 4th of July by burning copies of War and Peace and other works by authors born in the country that brought us Vladimir Putin and show them once and for all who's the strongest and the cleverest.
1
Can’t it just be enjoyed as a piece of great music? Why does it’s history have to enter the discussion?
John Lennon admitted he hit women when he was a young man. So does that mean we shouldn’t listen to any early recordings of his?
1
More politicization and overthinking about everything. Have some fun, a beer, and a hot dog and forget being woke for an important American holiday.
We forget we have what we do have because of the ideals and efforts of armed violent revolutionaries. They overthrew the over reach of government and taxation. And what we have is better than any other country. And why we must go back to the ideas of less government. The cult of the collective is crushing the spirit of the nation.
1
How silly to criticize music according to the prejudices of the day instead of the quality of the composition!
Tunes have always been adapted to the context of the performance rather than the time of composition.
Consider the multiple adaptations of the anthem "God Save the King/Queen"! It originated in central Europe, was adopted as the anthem of the British Empire, is instantly adjusted to fit the gender of the Monarch, and was flipped to create the American patriotic song, "My Country 'tis of Thee".
The 1812 Overture is a noisy, rousing work readily adapted to accompaniment by artillery and fireworks. The theme is the repulsion of invasion and the triumph of defenders. It was composed to celebrate the outcome of a Napoleonic invasion, but is really transferrable to the expulsion of the British by American colonists.
The artillery and fireworks are especially suitable for Americans who loves guns and all things that go off with a bang, and destroy stuff!
1
The article fails to mention that during the Vietnam War, as an anti war alternative to the National Symphony Orchestra’s performance of the 1812 Overture on the National Mall, Leonard Bernstein conducted an orchestra playing Hayden’s Mass in Time of War.
3
Perhaps they should consider replacing Tchaikovsky’s 1812 Overture with the work it shamelessly copies—namely, PDQ Bach’s 1712 Overture. Audiences deserve to finally hear the original masterpiece.
7
The local symphony where I lived cancelled its yearly traditional “Russian Spectacular”. Not only was I disappointed but I was disappointed that I was the only one who seemed to care.
Putin is doing something terrible. We all know that. But that doesn’t make all of Russia bad. And it certainly doesn’t make all of Russian history bad. These are composers that died decades ago which adds to the absurdity but living Russian artists shouldn’t be judged for the actions of a monster they have no control over either. And for Americans to make these kinds of judgments is laughable. Look in the mirror, people.
What this phenomenon tells me is that we still haven’t learned that it’s ignorant and dangerous to discriminate against an entire group of people even when their culture has gone off the rails. And as an American, I’m saying that as a person whose culture is completely off the rails even if we are on the right side of this one issue.
1
One of the best-known pieces ever composed, the Year 1812 Solemn Overture, op 49, was written in 1880 by the amazing Pyotr I. Tchaikovsky. It was meant to commemorate the successful Russian defense (not attack).
It would be a shame to cancel a beautiful classical piece such as this. For those who have only enjoyed it at the fireworks, please listen to the full overture or opus. Have you heard those bells?
I condemn the invasion to Ukraine. My dad was born and grew up there, and many like me, with Ukranian and Russian (first generation) blood in our veins are heartbroken, appalled, and worried.
Yet, lets not cancel culture and history, and the beauty that is left on the planet, which is severely threatened right now. Not all that is Russian is Putin, nor communist, in the same way that not all Germans are nazis, and not all Americans are unreasonable extremists.-
3
This is really going to hurt the people, the government of Russia and Putin. American really know how to get even. Freedom fries any one.
I say go with Woody Guthrie’s This Land Is Your Land, instead of Star Spangled Banner…maybe a bunch of Gershwin too, Rhapsody In Blue is a no-brainer…Appalachian Spring? Lotsa brilliant melodic big American music.
Hey - seriously - while we’re at it - how about getting rid of all those explosive fireworks displays (and local fireworks with the accompanying news of lost fingers and eyes…) or any celebration of war…let’s celebrate the other more difficult things: peace, and smarts, and our place on earth and in the universe…isn’t that what all the great uplifting music is really about anyway? What my father fought for in WW2?
Just a thought…
A few months ago, I was given tickets to a symphony's performance of an all-Russian program, something I was not aware of when I accepted the generous gesture of a friend. When I read the program, I was prepared to walk out at the first note played. I have a very strong belief that Russian artists should not be exempt from suffering from not publicly rebuking the outrages Vladimir Putin has visited on the Ukraine and the world. [Not too long ago, I listened to an interview with the general manager of the Metropolitan Opera attempting to justify permitting Russians to perform in starring roles at the Met. It was dispiriting to listen to his weak excuses.]
Before this local performance began, however, the orchestra's accomplished conductor from Barcelona, made a public statement about the Russian atrocities in Ukraine and apologized to the audience, noting that the program and guest artist had been arranged over a year in advance and there were serious limitations preventing changes. The orchestra then played the Ukrainian National Anthem during which most of the audience stood as a sign of respect.
That was the solution that worked for me, too. I think Keith Lockhardt has it right, but I still believe Russian artists should not get a pass simply because they are well known. Putin's war, much like Hitler's, is undertaken because people stand behind them and do not react to atrocities. I wouldn't be surprised if I learned that Putin plays the 1812 before he sleeps.
1
Must we analyze every last thing for any possible offenses or objectionable history?
While the overture may have been written to commemorate a Russian victory, the music’s message has broadened over time as a piece that evokes victory over those who would impose themselves on others. The inclusion of Russian folk music celebrates the common citizens who rose up to defend their country, can we embrace that? Sounds a lot like our Revolution when farmers stood against a trained British military.
As with all invasions the music starts quietly, stealthily, continually rising to the crescendo of the oppressed triumphantly vanquishing the would-be oppressors with the ringing of church bells. Was anyone thinking of Russia at the end of the movie “V for Vendetta” when Parliament was destroyed? Or were they cheering the spirit of Guy Fawkes finally winning, if only in a movie?
When I lived in NH, I was on the Charles riverbank just by the fireworks barges every 4th. The 1812 Overture with the howitzers firing precisely with the music was always the highlight of the evening. I was never thinking of Russia, even though I know the history of the music. I was thinking about strength in the face of adversity - something that would be good to celebrate right now.
2
How about we appreciate music for its intrinsic value. More than 200 years later, Tchaikovsky is already part of the human cultural heritage, and has no association whatsoever with the current war.
9
The war fever has gotten ugly. What's next? Taking Tolstoy from the bookshelves? Ban Chekhov's plays? Burn Eisenstein's films?
4
Here's what should be played on this day -
"A Symphony: New England Holidays"
Charles Ives
3rd Movement - "The Fourth of July"
"The Fourth of July was completely scored for full orchestra in the summer of 1912. The piece is scored for two flutes, one or two piccolos, an optional two or three fifes, two oboes, two or three clarinets, two bassoons and contrabassoon, four horns, three trumpets and a cornet, three trombones and tuba, timpani, snare drum, bass drum and cymbals, xylophone, 2 players on different pitches of bells, piano, and strings, including three solo "extra" violins.
Ives wrote The Fourth of July intending it to exemplify the excitement a boy feels during the Fourth of July celebrations and the freedom felt on that special day. He begins the piece with strings entering quietly; the sound and rhythmic intensity amplify steadily. This segues into the parade-like material of "Columbia, the Gem of the Ocean", followed by fireworks, simulated by Ives's sketch of "The General Slocum". The movement ends peacefully with the imagery of falling sparks, signaling the end of the Fourth of July.
It was thought to be one of Ives's most challenging pieces; the overlapping of an abundance of quotations creates heightened dissonance. More quotations that can be found within The Fourth of July are "Yankee Doodle", "Dixie", "Battle Cry of Freedom", "Marching Through Georgia", and "Battle Hymn of the Republic"."
It replicates the live experience of attending a parade...
5
@Howard G thecproblem is rhat it is an ugly piece of music
2
@Howard G I was thinking of Ives, too. Being from Boston, I would also like to see the program include his tribute to the 54th Regiment, from "Three Places in New England."
And why not have William Grant Still's 1st Symphony ("African American")? It's very engaging, not too much of a stretch for people used to Gershwin and Bernstein.
I'm not tuning out Russian music altogether, at least for my own listening. I do like a fair amount of Tchaikovsky, but I could do without the "1812," and the Americanized wording for the original hymn reminds me of a Kremlinized rewrite. There's a lot of other noisy and rousing music that can be used to ignite the fireworks. One example: the last movement of Symphony No. 3 (original version) by the Ukrainian composer Boris Lyatoshynsky. The one big problem is that playing an unfamiliar piece for the first time will disappoint people craving their once-a-year Tchaikovsky fix.
1
@Rita
"Ugly" is in the ears of the listener -
As someone who has worked in the music and entertainment business for decades - and has experienced Tchaikovsky's "1812 Overture" numerous times - as a performer onstage, as well as from behind the scenes, and as an audience member - I can tell you that most professional musicians view the playing of the the "1812 Overture" as a perfunctory necessity of their jobs for these Fourth of July concerts -
If you've ever stood on the sidewalk as a parade passed by - with one band playing "From the Halls of Montezuma" as it passes by - while hearing another band playing "The National Emblem March" as it approaches - with their cacophonous sounds overlapping in a musical hodgepodge - that is exactly the effect Charles Ives was trying to replicate in "Fourth of July" -
I am grateful that my high-school music teacher exposed us to Ives' music - which gave us the opportunity to expand our ears past the standard repertoire -
In my opinion - the "1812 Overture" is predictable, noisy and boring - and has nothing to do with the celebration of American Independence - while Ives' "A Symphony: New England Holidays" is a wonderful musical painting of American life from the colonial period -
And - I think it's actually very beautiful...
1
This is one part (maybe the only part) of "cancel culture" I would endorse. I've always thought it odd at celebrations of American independence and democracy, and now particularly so. Tchaikovsky was, more or less, the court composer to the Russian monarchy, perhaps the most autocratic Europe. And now that we have a new expansionist tsar who invokes all the trappings of that monarchy (except the Romanoffs themselves, who have been welcomed back, albeit in an unofficial capacity), this is one piece on which I will take a pass.
3
@Wiltontraveler , Let’s also not forget that UK which is a monarchy in name and democracy in practice continued its brutal colonial rule until the middle of the 20th century.
1
Did American orchestras perform Beethoven's 9th (and all the rest of his great works) between 1933 and 1945?
Of course, they did.
16
@Carl Zeitz I respectfully dissent. I think it is far more nuanced than simply playing the well-recognized pieces of reknown artists. Giving recognition to such artists and their works gives recognition to the nation, which leaders who engage in unjust international actions know. While the leaders commit the atrocities, they revel in how their culture benefits from recognition given to the artists.
@John McDonald
“ While the leaders commit the atrocities, they revel in how their culture benefits from recognition given to the artists.”
Then we better get rid of every pop hit/group from the Vietnam era.
1
@Mike
Addendum:
With the exception of ‘Fixin to die Rag’ and ‘Fortunate Son.’
1
Proof the US proxy war in Ukraine is a crusade against the very existence of Russia.
Also, a means of social and economic control here.
4
Are we on the side of Napolean then? He was the Putin of Europe on his day. I suppose I can see that most performing companies realize that Americans sadly know very little history; is that it? They feel if they play a Russian composer that it automatically lends support to an autocrat far removed from that period of history? Still a bit bizarre, in my opinion. Funny to see the normal "I won't fly an American flag" commenters here suddenly become all for American composers during the celebration!
9
Napoleon has a lot more in common with the EU/NATO/US than he does with Putin.
2
@Camille Please don't equate Napoleon with Putin.
To many, Napolean was bringing freedom from despots of his time. There is a reason why he had very wide support in Italy and Poland.
Putin, not so much.
3
Rhapsody in Blue! And how about every year they find a new American composer and play their work.
12
It’s puzzling why 1812 Overture is played on July 4th at all. It has no relationship to the holiday. I am often puzzled by music selected by events and politicians to promote their cause that often have lyrics and meanings exactly opposite. Just this week a local band played The Who’s “We Won’t be Fooled Again” - -“to support of our troops and emts”. What?
Favorite Son. Born in the USA. Is would be comical if it weren’t so sad.
9
I find it odd that a orchestral piece written 210 years ago, in 1812, during the reign of Emperor Alexander the First, somehow has become conflated with a 2022 Soviet war against Ukraine, led by Vladimir Putin. It's a great piece of music. Play it for the love of music.
32
No kidding! And defeating napoleon is somehow bad now??? Bending ourselves into backward pretzels.
@MnOrch
I agree that the piece should be played. After all, it was written to celebrate a victory over a man who caused the deaths of more Europeans than anyone else in the 19th century.
But, my God, the piece was NOT written 210 years ago; the WAR took place 210 years ago. It was written in the late 19th century by a man who wasn't even born until 1840.
6
Very strange objections. The Ukrainian roots of and influence on Tchaikovsky are both well documented.
25
Orchestras should replace "1812 Overture" with "Finlandia". It was written as a resistance piece to Russian aggression. Other than the hymn part that most are familiar with cannon fire could be stuck in in several places.
20
@Alan Yungclas I agree that Finlandia would be a good substitute. However, let's leave out the cannons. The world needs more hymns and less cannons.
6
@Alan Yungclas If you want cannons, I would suggest a classical version of AC/DC "...To those about to rock. We salute you..."
As much as I love the 1812 overture, I’ve always been baffled when I hear it played at 4th of July celebrations. A Russian song, written by a Russian composer, about a Russian victory on Russian soil. Not to mention written about a victory over The French, our principle ally in the fight for independence. Weird.
47
This isn’t to say it should be canceled. A lot traditions aren’t based on reason (during the winter solstice let’s cut down a sap-filled pine tree, put it in our living room, and then put some lights on it). I was just saying it’s always been weird. But, maybe that speaks to the power of music and the genius of the composition. So beautiful is the song that it can be enjoyed by all regardless if two peoples are at war with each other.
9
"I’ve always been baffled when I hear it played at 4th of July celebrations."
Now this is just a guess on my part but it might have something to do with loud "booms" - sort of like fireworks. But hey, that's just a guess.
1
Wow. I never even knew where it was from. It’s a staple for the fireworks segment at the Boston Pops 4th of July. Have to see what happens this year.
5
Personally I can’t think of anything more appropriate to play in the current circumstances. If anything, it’s a reminder to all Russians that at one time they were the ones fighting off (and winning) a war of aggression launched by a foreign despot intent on conquering them. Now they’re the aggressors being repelled.
22
An introduction about victory over a militaristic invader is appropriate. I for one of millions had no idea the song included the czarist national anthem. Always thought it was the Quaker Cereal anthem. And be sure to end the concerts with an American patriotic song.
14
Come on, it's not woke/cancel culture! Dropping the piece will return the 4th of July to American composers. People who miss the excitement of booming howitzers can ask for them to be used during "Starts and Stripes Forever" (as long as they don't boom over the piccolo soli). According to the article, this "tradition" has been in place for forty-eight years. Supreme Court precedents older than that have been overturned. Drop the piece and save Americans from thinking Tchaikovsky wrote a piece about the burning of Washington and Andrew Jackson.
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@Little Gidding What is going to save Americans who think Canada is part of the US or the state of New Mexico is in Mexico?
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@Little Gidding
If any American truly thinks that, then it is an indictment of current music and world history education. It seems that at least 19 recommenders missed that class, but it's something my grandmother, with a 4th or 5th grade education knew, and so did everybody else I grew up with who ever heard the piece in a music appreciation class.
2
Freedom fries anyone?
This is virtue signaling, and as absurd and annoying as most such examples.
I've spent a couple of July 4s at the Blossom Music Center hearing the Cleveland Orchestra perform the 1812 Overture with fireworks.
It was spectacular. Nobody ever thought about who beat whom as inspiration for the piece, which is a work of genius and should be treated as such.
54
The problem arises in part because there are only two pieces in the repertoire to pick from if you want cannons (and the Beethoven piece wouldn’t work).
Perhaps the 1812 could be performed during Juneteenth celebrations?
The 1812 is relevant and honors summers celebrations in many of our cities.
1
For Pete's sake, give me a break. all this bunk about changing this and changing that because of some obscure historical association is ridiculous. To begin with, Russia's victory over Napoleon was a major milestone is defeating a despot. That was a different Russia. And the 1812 overture has been absorbed into our July 4th culture. I doubt if one person in a thousand even knows who wrote, when, and what it celebrates. I personally tired of being told that words and phrases and acts are politically unacceptable. Phooey on this kind of trivial story.
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@Kent Kraus
"I personally tired of being told that words and phrases and acts are politically unacceptable."
Hear, hear!
Of course, this being the case, you'll have no objection to inclusion of "Critical Race Theory" and discussions about GLBTQ history (replete with graphic depictions of their proclivities) in your kids' and grandkids' grade-school classrooms, even in Alabama, right?
Or is there some reason that THOSE particular words and phrases and acts might be "unacceptable" to you?
1
@Kent Kraus How little history we know. The end of Napoleanic wars didn't bring end to despots in Europe. It actually brought despotism back. The Bourbon were put back on French throne, but many liberal initiative started by Napoleon survived.
And it wasn't different Russia. Russia has always been the same. Aggressive, expansionist, cruel. A few decades later, Russians would perpetuate circassian genocide.
As for Tchaikovsky, play his music as he doesn't belong solely to Russia. His family roots are in Ukraine
1
You must know thousands of culturally ignorant folk.
So an overture that celebrates the defeat of an invading army is politically incorrect today? Wow.
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I liked it better when Americans were stupid enough to think the 1812 overture was about the American war of 1812, rather than being dumb enough to believe a centuries-dead composer should be punished for the idiocies of the 21st century.
84
A million times this! I always thought it was weird that it was written by a Russian composer haha.(we’re the Russians in New Orleans too? Hahaha)
2
@Andrew
Indeed. And I am pretty sure that the majority of Americans either don't know the name of the composer of the 1812 overture, nor spell it.
7
Andrew…Americans are are least as stupid as in the time you pine for. Not only am I sure that Americans still believe it’s about the War of 1812, most Americans wouldn’t even recognize the piece as the 1812 Overture. Most Americans don’t even know anything about the War of 1812.
6
Sigh. For my entire youth we were at war with Russia and this queation never even came up. Then along comes cancel culture and people now have to engage in witchunts to prove their right-mindedness.
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@Sourgum The only 'war' we were involved in with Russia (actually, USSR) was the 'cold war'. There was little actual fighting. We had many agreements with the USSR over many military subjects. We never fired a shot in the dissolution of the USSR; that was virtually all internal and the result of pressure from the rest of the world. Now that Russia has initiated the fighting, the nature of the connection to Russia has changed. Maybe our reaction should reflect that change.
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@BigFootMN
Let me correct: for my entire youth the russians were our mortal enemies and we stood on the brink of armageddon with them for decades, and their militarism and abuse of human rights we legion, and we fought proxy wars with them around the world.
Hey, but at least they never invaded anyone!
...except Hungary, except Afganistan, except more recently various countries in the Caucases.
except their empire holding populations of unwilling people in thrall for decades, except except except....
Or does your historical consciousness only stretch back so far?
3
I think we play this work for the booms, the fireworks. Now we are starting to think about the deeper meaning of all this in the light (or darkness) of Putin's criminal war on Ukraine. It's about time!!
16
I’m sure there must be some ambitious composer out there willing to weave in the Ukrainian national anthem and replace the tune of God Save the Czar. Just this once. After all, the Star Spangled Banner is written on top of a drinking song…
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@Jeffrey Schantz
"the Star Spangled Banner is written on top of a drinking song"
And what better, more appropriate way to celebrate the very essence of American culture (especially our present political phenomena) and exceptionalism?
3
@Jeffrey Schantz Actually, the Star Spangled Banner wasn't a drinking tune. See this week's NY Times Book Review for a review of a book about the history of that anthem.
What!? You read Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky?1
13
Yes, we read Tolstoy and Dostoevsky, and Chekhov too. But playing 1812 Overture and singing in Russian “God Save the Tzar” on July 4th - common. It’s about time we stop it. On July 4th we are celebrating separation from monarchy not promoting it. Save 1812 Overture for another day.
1
Shouldn't we maybe give "Russia" a few points for the minor role the USSR played in winning WWII? Or maybe we should go all out in our effort to be "sensitive" and collect and burn all copies of "War and Peace"? And what about reviving those old detention camps we built for Japanese-Americans and put everybody with obvious Russian names and ties in them? We've got to have a current demon to banish, now that we have mostly cleansed the country of all things Confederate!
20
So let me get this straight. Tchaikovsky was a supporter of Putin?
48
We're going to cancel Tchaikovsky?
44
Instead of removing the piece from Fourth of July concerts maybe we should ascribe new meaning to it. Victory and glory to Ukraine over Russia! If not that, then maybe Star Wars by John Williams.
5
Which Williams stole from “Lawrence of Arabia” yet another Numbskull.
@Jean
Lawrence may have been a numbskull. I wouldn't know. Or care. But Williams did not steal anything from Maurice Jarre, and despite Jarre's marvelous main theme for LAWRENCE OF ARABIA, Williams's STAR WARS score is infinitely superior in its totality, witness the fact that it is the most popular, and accepted, film score to make it into the concert repertoires of major symphony orchestras since the one Prokofiev provided for ALEXANDER NEVSKY in the 1930s.
It seems like today everything is tied to something else and if God forbid it ruffles someones feathers, well we'll just have to stop doing that. What ever happened to liking and enjoying something which we enjoy and makes us feel good, especially music? People are getting sick and tired of this over sensitivity of practically everything in our world today.
10
Let's see, we rename schools and streets because the founders of our country had slaves. We have people who want to do away with he and she and use they. Now folks want to do away with the 1812 Overture. I'm considered quite liberal and I see how our history is being wiped away.
37
Platitudes, musical or otherwise, about freedom, independence and overcoming oppression are going to be a hard sell in America this Fourth of July for half of our population considering women just lost control of their own bodies through a ruling by an ideologically-driven, hard-right Supreme Court.
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@RJ Steele
And many babies, who were not aborted, will be born today. Welcome to them all!
@Linda Sam Yes, born as virtual state property through an authoritarian ruling without the slightest thought for the lives of the women forced to birth them or even the health and condition of the baby itself or the circumstances of conception or the conditions into which they will be born or any other considerations that a truly free society should weigh when making laws for such personal decisions as reproductive choice.
1
@RJ Steele
I'm glad you believe all of that, and that Linda Sam believes all that she (they?) wrote. But in discussing appropriate music for the Fourth of July, one might give some thought to the music itself and, almost revoltingly, to the fact that an exceedingly small percentage of our citizens will ever hear any of the Fourth of July concerts given by our major (or minor) orchestras, and that a large percentage of them will not even have heard of the 1812 Overture. Perhaps they would show more awareness if Lady Gaga traveled the country and fired the canons at each proposed performance.
This is and always has been some great music. This is the sole classical music record I owned and played in the 70's alongside all my rock'n'roll of the day. To think it's somehow not fit to play at any fireworks finale is ludicrous. This cancel stuff is getting out of hand.
It would be especially appropriate to play world-wide at the moment we drop the big one on Putin's head!
art
14
I love my country with all my heart, but we Americans -- insulated from harsh global realities by two vast oceans and friendly neighbors north and south -- cannot really be bothered with complicated phenomena like the interplay of politics and history, so we end up doing silly things like not performing the 1812 Overture because it reduces a very complex and multidimensional geopolitical problem to something simple and easy to understand and demonstrates -- we imagine -- that we are on the right side of history by showing solidarity with Ukraine.
To show real solidarity with Ukraine, I would urge the Cleveland Orchestra and the ensembles in Connecticut, Indiana, New York, Ohio, Wisconsin and Wyoming mentioned herein to donate a portion of their proceeds to humanitarian aid that is being sent to the Ukrainian people.
That -- and working for a diplomatic / political solution to this horrific conflict -- is what the US government should also be doing, instead of using able-bodied Ukrainian men as cannon fodder in an effort to perpetuate a stalemate against a gargantuan military industrial power.
PS: for those who think that Russia needs to be "stopped" in Ukraine lest it proceed to roll its dilapidated tank force across and conquer Europe, please keep in mind that it has spent months attempting to capture some small towns in the Donbas region.
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@David H
"PS: for those who think that Russia needs to be "stopped" in Ukraine lest it proceed to roll its dilapidated tank force across and conquer Europe, please keep in mind that it has spent months attempting to capture some small towns in the Donbas region."
I think it is appropriate to let Finland, Latvia, Lithuania & Estonia answer that question. From your comfy spot in VA world politics probably look different.
17
@David H This combat veteran of the Viet Nam war respectfully disagrees. There is no such thing as a diplomatic/political solution when one country (Russia) brutally invades another (Ukraine) and destroys that country's civilian infrastructure. There's a time to stand proud, and the people of Ukraine are doing just that, at great personal cost. If I were fifty years younger I'd be there myself.
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@David H The motive is more a repudiation of wartime Russia, and what it stands for at this moment in time... a narcissist bully of a leader, not-so-coincidentally greatly admired by our narcissist bully of a former, disgraced leader. Being able to see past "tradition" to embrace positive change is a good thing.
9
US was allied with Napoleon in 1812, so the choice of music has always seemed strange to me.
13
@Jens Praestgaard
Details, details.
3
@David H
The Americans were fighting the British in 1812. So was Napoleon, but not for our benefit. But then little Napoleon, like little Adolf, decided to fight his war on two fronts. I think the death toll for France was something like 3 million. And populations were much smaller in those days.
2
Of course the historical fine points that the music commemorates the victory over the French who were invading Russia doesn’t impress the naysayers with its similarities to the Ukraine invasion. In our rush, always, to,do something, it seems that isn’t considered. No one said we were a smart people, but we are determined.
11
Napoleon was the invader of a sovereign country , Russia, and the 1812 overture celebrates its “struggle and military victory over the aggressor”. Adding this caveat, this Inspiring music can be seen as celebrating the courage and suffering of the Ukrainian people in their heartbreaking struggle against Russia invading their sovereign country.
22
@SMS Yes -- Keith Lockhart absolutely has it right. Perspective and context include historical perspective and context, not just our own blinkered views of today. A concern about being offensive is certainly a good trait for a civilized person (and society), but get a brain, America!
We show respect for Russian arts and the Russian people separately from the horrible aggression of their leaders. Playing the 1812 says we are a world looking for peace without the symbolism. It's good music written by a master. Let's not waste any more brain-matter on theories of what it can represent in 2022. Unity!
40
It's about time! I have always liked the 1812 Overture, but I never understood why, on July 4 of all days, we play a work that, at the very end, includes the tune of "God Save the Tsar" a hymn to Tsarist autocracy. Surely there is some rousing American work that would provide an appropriate and popular ending to a 4th of July concert.
31
@C. Ziegler
Well, that would be Sousa's Stars and Stripes March, but it is hardly of the magnitude to end any kind of a monster concert, at least not next to the Tchaikovsky piece.
2
Wait - what?? The War of 1812 was about Russia?
And here I thought it was about the war where Canada walloped the United States. But because we are nice people, we decided we would end things by going toe-to-toe with sticks and a hard, round piece of rubber rather than munitions.
And so hockey was born.
But more seriously, let's all take this day to reflect on how fortunate we are to have the freedoms we have, and to put Ukraine and all victims of unprovoked war in our thoughts and hearts - and in our actions. Let's reflect on how fortunate we are to be two countries who are good friends and neighbours. Let's reflect on how each and every one of us can be agents of peace - right now, and right where we are - by reflecting on what makes us similar rather than what makes us different; and even more than this, walking the walk rather than just talking the talk. Pass along a smile rather than just look away. Be kind. Offer a helping hand to those that need it. Be polite. Think in terms of community rather than self. The workings of governments need not overrule the power of all of us working together - we are not impotent as individual citizens. We have the power to make change - and it starts with changing the way we view our world and each other.
Happy Independence Day, neighbours.
41
For the Fourth of July John Philip Sousa would be nice. However, I could care less right now because with recent Supreme Court rulings I don’t feel very free. I am not in the celebration mood.
82
@Therese
I understand the Ukrainians are playing Chopin's funeral march from his piano sonata no. 2 in B flat minor to commemorate July 4.
1
@David H
In my city, Philadelphia, a funeral March is appropriate with all of the shootings/killings because anyone can carry a gun.
2
@Therese
Oh, just get on a plane and visit Ukraine. You'll feel ever so much freer when you return. Or simply run off to Cuba over a weekend or take a quick flight to Venezuela. It's truly amazing how exposure to these paradises almost invariably enhance your sense of freedom when back in this country.
Have we totally lost the thread as a society? Some overeducated orchestra head with no common sense apes fear of offending some imaginary person. I doubt most Ukrainians (who also fought against Napoleon, as if the geopolitics of 200 years ago has any real bearing on today) would actually care. I can say I certainly don't. I'd imagine most Ukrainians would care much more about what you are doing today to support their cause with money and materials, not empty virtue-signaling gestures. The addition of the Ukrainian national anthem is a nice and thoughtful gesture, but I really can't believe we're even here having this conversation.
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@Steve
Amen.
The Ukrainians are valiantly fighting for their existence.
What amount or arrogance and self importance does it take to think that performing the work of a long-dead master is a factor in their struggle?
Exactly how is Tchaikovsky relevant here?
Remember "Freedom Fries"?
But it does feed the non-stop narrative that everything is identity today. Tchaikovsky was once a Russian over a hundred years ago.
So there's that.
45
@Steve:
Agreed. These kinds of "decisions" and articles related to them are beyond tedious. They are dangerous.
Then they came for me...
14
@Steve
"I'd imagine ..."
Yes, that's the problem, you imagine that it makes no difference. Well, you can imagine all you want - that doesn't change reality.
If Germany had attacked its neighbor, would you really think it appropriate to play "Deutschland uber alles" at a 4th of July concert?
9