If you want equality then you can't be a hypocrite about it. I understand your animosity but it is all of our responsibility to teach those who don't understand equality what is most important about equality. It is up to you to learn tolerance too and to teach that to those who don't yet understand. You must be willing to give up your own prejudices then accept the equality of everyone else.
166
Pride about what? Why that word? Why not freedom? Pride is the opposite of shame. Pride and shame are in regard to individuals and the communities which accept or reject them. The Pride celebrations are about being accepted and no longer being made to feel shame over their sexual orientation. The author can rationalize her resentments but her attitude is not about pride but holding grudges.
104
Gay man here, and I too have encountered police abuse.
Nonetheless, I believe that the best way to change a (once-)hostile culture is to get our own inside it. So it seems foolish, counter-productive to deny proudly gay uniformed policee officers a place in Gay Pride events.
213
The rest way of establishing cops s the enemy is to declare them as such.
46
The NY Times Editorial Board disagrees with you, and makes a great case for why cops should be allowed to participate, in their article "A Misstep by the Organizers of Pride," dated May 18, 2021.
77
I'd much rather see them ban so-called GAY CHRISTIANS. Or any gay so-called religious groups. Seriously? What group has done more historically to harm gay people than people of this ilk.
48
I think the world of Roxane Gay, but this piece, I hope, is a terrible misfire. The world -- not just the LGBTQ community -- is well aware of the past (and present) injustices of the Police. However, the response can never be they "do not belong." It's gratuitous cruelty and exclusive, in fact: "You have our permission to be gay, but just not in uniform." This is America. Who goes around justifying that kind of divisiveness? That is a "Heritage" no one should be proud of.
111
The first gay parade I attended there was a huge contingent of men and women in uniform shouting 2-4-6-8, what makes you think your doctor's straight.
At the time there may have been people in the medical profession that either would not serve gay men and women or gays that were afraid to admit to their doctors that they were gay. This was at the time of massive HIV infections.
I'm sure there are still doctors that do not want to treat members of the gay community.
23
Excluding the police from the Pride Parade is a bad idea, a bad choice and a harmful policy. I was at the very first parade and we were afraid of the police (and many others). We didn't know from where or from whom the violence against us would come. And we didn't trust the police to protect us either. Thankfully, what we, as a community, accomplished over the years has improved the lives of countless people. There is no denying the struggle must continue, our fight for true equality is not even in sight.
However, to get there, we need everyone: parents, police, butchers, bakers and even candle stick makers. Having uniformed police at Pride confirms our celebration, our progress, the success of our efforts and certainly doesn't intrude on it. Every supporter is welcome and each should be celebrated. Not out of thanks or appreciation but out of respect for our community's accomplishments.
I'm guessing those people who want to administer some litmus test for each participant, can't remember when we had to march alone. I don't remember those days as being better, more pure or more meaningful.
91
Then don't complain when the St. Patrick's Day and the Columbus Day parades say they don't want GLBT representation (positions I oppose). And don't complain when various church groups and church-affiliated institutions (like schools and hospitals) try to exclude or limit services to GLBT people.
We either have inclusion and nondiscrimination, or we don't,
124
I would like to thank all the letter writers who responded to this column, stating that such exclusionary thoughts as those spoken by MS Gay have no place in the gay community or any community. It must be least 90 per cent of the responders who disagreed with her, in eloquent powerful language. These comments have restored my faith in humanity on this day, May 30, 2021. Thank you all, profoundly.
139
No cops at PRIDE. As a queer woman, it’s exhausting to hear people push for allowing police to intrude on our celebration of queer life without acknowledging the harm they have inflicted on our community. PRIDE is trying to go back to its roots because its commercialization has made it almost unrecognizable from a St. Patty’s Parade. Cops can attend the celebrations as civilians like the rest of us so this is not an issue of equity or discrimination. Such a great piece and as a younger millennial I am so happy that we as a community have come together to uphold the true meaning of PRIDE as the mainstream tries to sanitize and commodify it.
185
@LA BABY
Exhausting is one word for it. The trauma from my youth still haunts me...
You are so correct in the commercialization of Pride; the original intent of Pride remains but has been hidden from view by the echelons of booths and the capitalism that is present not to support our community but simply to make a buck. Sponsorship is great, but 99% of the booths I encounter at Pride are not sponsoring the festival or parade, they are simply "hawking their wares."
34
@LA BABY
What Roxane is effectively saying is that LGBTQ men and women serving in uniform as police officers can never be part of our community as police officers and more troubling to me is that the police can never be here to serve our community but only as a threat to our community.
The inclusion of men and women in uniform at gay pride marches demonstrates how we can change the police force from within to serve us instead of fight us.
Roxane Gay's narrow minded argument that you can't be openly gay and openly serving as a police officer at gay pride at the same time is a huge step backward in my mind. And is contrary to everything that the LGBTQ movement is about.
251
@LA BABY not every “queer” person agrees with you though. Also if there’s a joy in pride, why lump everyone together as queer? Many don’t identify as that but rather gay or lesbian or trans. I know it’s very much a younger millennial/gen-z thing to do. We will never resolve these issues if everyone in the community is forced to think the same way.
86
These comments are highly disturbing. Last year at New York’s queer liberation march the NYPD brutalized and maced people for exercising their first amendment rights. My Black and Latinx LGBTQ community does not feel safe around the police and throughout this last year we have all endured extreme trauma while protesting for our right to live free from police brutality. Being a cop is not an inherent identity like being queer. Police choose to be complicit in a system of racism and oppression and by extension our community can choose to exclude them. In the spirit of Marsha and Sylvia, our mothers who gave us rights, we will never accept police at Pride. Pride is a protest, and it’s our joy. Further, police have never prevented a mass shooting and when we say we keep us safe, we mean it. No cops at Pride. Open your minds to abolition.
36
Who is YOUR “Black and Latinx LGBTQ community” and what gives it the right to call the shots over the entire community? You all didn’t feel so scared going toe to toe last year with the NYPD, a fight you went looking for. Another article by John Leland in this paper described your experience as being “bruised but exhilarated”. If you would be revolutionaries are such shrinking violets, I am sure the rest of us can provide you with an armored float so you can sit high above it all with your ideal and judgement intact while the rest of us celebrate.
70
@Nic
Cops were arresting people for graffiti, others stopped in to stop them. Graffiti is not not your 1st amendment right. Stopping cops from arresting people who are breaking the law is not your 1st amendment right. People don't want to have their communities trashed.
94
@Nic You are not telling the truth about what happened last year. A man was arrested for vandalizing property. Some people from the queer liberation march surrounded the police vehicle carrying the arrestee and refused to let it move, i.e. they were obstructing justice.
93
Roxane Gay wrote:
"We are not turning on anyone. Law enforcement is not an innate identity. The police are not marginalized. They aren’t disowned by their families for carrying a gun and badge. They haven’t been brutalized or arrested because of how they make a living."
She keeps saying "the police" are marching, and ignoring that it is LGBTQ police. I'm fairly confident that LGBTQ police have in the past been disowned by their family and colleagues, harassed and discriminated against on the job, and even beaten off duty... precisely because of who they are in combination with how they make their living.
Has Ms. Gay ever spoken to one of these LGBTQ officers, and asked them what they have gone through?
94
I don’t think holding a pride parade would be possible without police support. What privilege to be able to exclude them. Like it or not we give the government a near monopoly on violence as part of our social contract. Getting rid of the police will replace organized power structures with disorganized ones. Anarchy will cause more harm than these fools can imagine.
38
Since some police have mistreated LGBTQ persons, all police should be banned from the march. Talk about stereotyping.
66
As a gay man, I would not take part in a Pride event that excluded any group of sincere allies. This “once my enemy, forever my enemy” thinking only creates more ill will. People can change, groups can change. If cops used to bash us but now think and behave differently, the proper response is, “Glad to have you on our side, and welcome!”
118
"officers are more than welcome to join Pride celebrations — unarmed and in civilian clothing"
Seems to me she wants to "tone down,""temper," and "neuter" lgbtq police officers. And to say you don't need police "marching alongside us" is dehumanizing. They're not matching "alongside" lgbtq community members, they *are* lgbtq community members!
61
When a right-wing extremist hears there won’t be cops at Pride, people will wish the police had been respectfully invited.
19
So Stonewall was a riot against bad cops. It was righteous at the time and is important history for me as a gay person. My guncle was there. That was then. Now, we can perpetuate this animosity or work to heal it. Gay cops have taken the first step. And Pride organizers want to shove them aside because they identify as both LGBT AND police? How does that lead to healing, exactly?
45
Being homosexual, gay, lesbian, bisexual, pansexual, asexual, queer, questioning, transgender, gender non-conforming, androgynous, intersex, et al should be as unremarkable as being straight, heterosexual, cis-gender, etc. In other words, who really cares since we’re all human (unfortunately) and supposed to be equal, right?
17
Dripping with hypocrisy.
51
What a horrible country we have become. Cancel culture has destroyed America.
51
I think all of this merits an experiment. Let the next parade or march or rally go police free. No matter who shows up or how many calls come into the station, let the police back off and see what happens. There is no point to this debate unless we have data.
25
Time to look forward, not backwards. There is no question police have (and some still do) behave horribly towards LGBTQ persons. Plenty of books, articles, and films to remind us of that. But LGBTQ police marching in a gay pride parade is a display of remarkable progress that would have been unimaginable 30 years ago--and highly unlikely even 10 or 20 years ago. Younger people don't realize that. This is a time for recognition and celebration of that progress and for greater diversity and inclusion.
44
Wow.
What surprises me here isn’t the point of view that Ms. Gay decided to share with everyone, but how quickly NYT readers are ready to throw down the gauntlet on her OPINION.
I have to say, before I read Ms. Gay’s essay, I had already formed my opinion: I thought it was absolutely ridiculous that PRIDE would/could exclude anyone. However, after I read Ms. Gay’s piece, I realized that the point that she was/is trying to make (I think?) was that PRIDE isn’t about excluding anyone- it’s just about trying to refocus everyone’s attention on what should be the ONLY subject: LGBQT PRIDE, and not police pride (or disapproval!). What someone DOES for a living isn’t (or at least, shouldn’t be) WHO you are— it’s just a piece. Who you are is shaped by A LOT of things: race, religion, gender identity, sexual orientation and, often, profession- and I think that what PRIDE should be about is how ALL of those things fit when your sexual orientation and/or gender identification differs from the mainstream. (Also: Why is THAT?)
12
Really? Let’s strip away all of the group affiliations and group centered views of others and just focus upon the individuals who affiliate with others who share their same sexual orientation?
11
Police are oppressors.
L.G.B.T.Q. people, Black and brown people, female people, and minority people are abused, murdered, and disrespected by the police.
L.G.B.T.Q. people, Black and brown people, female people, and minority people are members of the police.
“They are being asked to confront their complicity with an institution that does more harm than good to vulnerable communities.”
“What we need, what we’ve always wanted and deserved, is what Debbie and I found when we first marched at Pride: a welcoming space where we can be safe and free.”
10
Let’s make perfectly clear a fact which the cops, sticking to their usual press m.o. of half-truths and obfuscations, seem to have successfully obscured:
Queer cops are welcome to march… just not in uniform!!
Of course people can represent themselves.
But this insistence on bringing their regalia of state oppression to a march representing freedom from oppression is just a P.R. stunt, which could only have been cooked up by a U.S. police department. “Hey guys! We know you’ve got this Pride thing to attend… well, top brass wants you to attend in uniform, badges and guns and all, to co-opt this celebration into instead making us seem ‘woke…’ and the best part is, we don’t have to change one single policy! We’ll retain qualified immunity, a ‘union’ in name only demonstrating zero solidarity with real unions, the use of unchecked state-sanctioned violence against marginalized communities, our blue collar royalty status, our reactionary politics, our ability to violently assault in counter-protest, under the guise of policing, anyone protesting police violence… and all you gotta do is wear our uniform where no one wants you to, and represent us rather than yourself!”
What would be next? A “Tanks for Peace” parade? Or perhaps I shouldn’t be suggesting such a thing, in our post-parodic, post-shame era… it may wind up on the books for 2022!
23
Ironically, the police might have the greatest pride—and courage—of all marchers!
Not the moment to sideline them.
37
what about gay cops?
6
Maybe clergy should be barred from marching as well, given the long history of abuse within many religious organizations. Maybe postal workers and the USPS should be barred for its history of censoring what could be mailed through its services.
The flip side to this is what about the visibility of officers to young children who might learn from seeing officers there? Should firemen be excluded as well?
Where do you draw the line? Inclusion is inclusion, and facing your history is a responsibility Gay seems to want to do only selectively.
45
Irrespective of the issue of the participation of gay cops, I for one have accepted the appropriation from the English lexicon the word "gay", but I do not accept the appropriation of the word "pride" by the LGBTQ community. Use an adjective. Don't permit the appropriation of the word "pride" from the lexicon for use other than to mean "LGBTQ 'pride'".
5
Okay, but Texas has to give, “patriot,” back too.
19
Well said!
5
This is the kind of thinking that stops progress in its tracks. Gay cops must have an awful time, and for them to come out in a gay parade sends a message that times are changing.
Are white people no longer welcome to support BLM? Men should not come out in support of women? Good grief!
Don't be jerks. Be the change!!!
52
I think of the officers who first came out. Came out not just as a civilian but as an officer. How brave they were. How proud they are to see the changes, not just made by society but *from within*. To know they and their allies made it happen. Then I think how those brave men and women are being made to feel bad again- by a gatekeeper from the very community they risked so much for.
35
Police in uniform are not ALLOWED by the NYPD brass to march for causes--not even for their own union causes. The fact that the "Heritage of Pride" parade (originally the Christopher St. Gay Liberation Day March commemorating the Stonewall Rebellion) became a parade dedicated to anodyne themes such a "pride" and "unity" instead our unfinished agenda (federal LGBTQ rights, integration of LGBTQ issues in schools, an end to police abuse particularly of transgender people, and so much more) uniformed police were allowed to march. They are not allowed by brass to march in uniform in the Dyke March, the Trans March, or the Drag March because those marches are demonstrations. As Ms. Gay notes now we have the Times and Washington Post telling the community who should be in our march. As a 67-year old gay activist I was part of the campaign to get the Times to use the word "gay" instead of calling us "homosexuals" and that took until 1986. Jonathan Capehart of the Post is a "liberal" commentator on MSNBC and PBS now but has a history as a gay adviser to Mike Bloomberg when the mayor was vetoing LGBT legislation passed by the City Council and going to court to appeal a court order for same-sex marriages in 2005--delaying marriage equality for six years in New York. Finally, HOP is evolving but there is an LGBTQ march free of corporations and cops this June 27th--Reclaim Pride's 3rd Queer Liberation Match kicking off from Bryant Park at 2:30 PM. All welcome. Leave your guns at home.
9
@Andy Humm All very impressive, Andy. But you never actually explain why it's ok to exclude an entire group of people in a Pride march.
I appreciate what you've done. I'm almost your age and was very active in ACT UP.
Maybe it's time for a movement called GROW UP.
23
@UWS - I use my name in my posts--not pseudonyms when I disagree with people. No people are excluded from the Reclaim Pride march--just corporate floats and guns.
6
@Andy Humm My name is Adam Dale.
You still manage to avoid making an actual argument.
15
Lovers of and apologists for police brutality, i.e. those of you who are eager to include police in every nook and cranny of Pride, have an easy alternative - form your own Pride march where you can have police galore. Reclaim Pride and Dyke March have their own Pride parades that don't include police (in response to the suffocating presence of police at mainstream Pride parades). So, re-imagine the Stonewall uprising in this break away Pride event: re-cast police as the everyday heroes of black and brown LGBT people. And to show just how inclusive you are, have trump be the grand Marshall and have him kiss the gay flag. Don't forget to ask the Proud Boys to march, too. For all their toxic macho, I am sure there are some ashamed gay boys in there somewhere. I promise you, I fully support this alternative version of Pride. We all get the Pride parades that we want. We all win.
10
Is this the first year that LGBTQ officers have asked to march in the parade in uniform? If not, and it has been allowed in the past, what has changed?
I ask these questions as a straight white male who understands that the brutalization of the LGBTQ community by the police and others didn't just start suddenly. And, as this has been going on for decades, why ban them now?
9
Everyone belongs at Pride. It’s a celebration of self-respect and diversity. Banning queers because of their chosen profession is wrong.
That’s the tea, doll.
32
In 2017, some Jewish lesbians said they weren’t allowed to march as Jews in the Dyke March in Chicago. In 2019 in D.C., the Israeli flag was banned in a Pride march. Obviously, some LGBTI groups don’t believe in inclusivity when it comes to Jews — and, now, LGBTI cops. This disgusts but doesn’t surprise me.
33
This debate is exhausting. Let's break Pride into two: a mainstream parade that is pro-police and commercialized (basically St. Patrick's parade, but with a rainbow theme, not a green theme), and a more grassroots parade where cops aren't welcome (think Dyke March or Reclaim Pride). Then each to their own preferred version of Pride. Ms. Gay, myself, and other like minded individuals can go the grassroots route. The NYT editorial and like minded individuals can go the mainstream route. We all win. We are all happy.
6
Born in 1949, I've seen and experienced bullying by other school students, beaten badly for being me, experienced seedy village clubs and, yes, having to stand in police lineups. If we want to be accepted, we have to open our minds and realize, without forgetting, the future for our community is now and evolving. My opinion from just another old "fag," remove our blinders, stand Proud and let's celebrate Pride together.
17
This is an excellent piece.
I can't help but notice that many of the commenters here aren't part of the LGBTQ+ community (lots of 'they' being banded about). To those people, I'd say please look at it from our perspective. I can't imagine feeling comfortable with seeing a police officer in uniform just generally - I've been intimidated by police officers and border guards often, in countries that usually aren't accepting of queer people like me. This isn't anything new - the cop uniform is a symbol of repression to us. I think police officers need to understand what that means to us.
14
I couldn't agree more with Ms. Gay.
The vast majority of cops are hostile homophobes who'd rain violence down on the LGBTQ community if the law would let them. And no amount of outreach or "inclusiveness" is going to change that.
Let them march around at the stupid St. Patrick's Day parade or the equally stupid Columbus Day parade. Those events glorify the NYPD.
Most cops are worse than a zero sum game. For every good deed they do there are three or four that aren't.
13
@History Guy Show us the evidence that "the vast majority of cops are hostile homophobes".
23
Are we really doing this again? How many times do we have to "debate" (see: argue about) this issue? Sigh, once more, with feeling:
-No one is born a police officer. Its a job people choose to have. Treating police differently is not discrimination, its something people do everyday. We all know there are certain things you don't say to the police, certain things you don't do around police. Since its inception, Pride is one of those things that isn't done around police. If it is, there's a riot. There is precedent for these sorts of decisions. There's a reason why the organizers of pride made this call.
-If LGBTQIA+ Officers want to attend pride, leave the uniform at home. It's that simple.
-Its quite rich to see straight cis people in the comments taking issue with an article written by a queer Black woman.
-"I know an LGBTQIA+ Officer and they are wonderful and-"
I'm sure they are. They sound like good people.
That. Doesn't. Matter.
It doesn't matter that individual officers have good intentions. If you are part of an oppressive system, you are tasked with doing horrific things to maintain the status quo. You can try to act in a more humane way, but the net result is that you are still making people suffer. If you aren't willing to do those horrible things, you are replaced with someone who will. When the consequences are the broad daylight murders of unarmed Black Americans, no one cares what you intended. People will do unspeakable things if an authority tells them to.
13
@Alexander Roberts it's quite rich when someone with little sense of gay history (read the comments for some of it, many if not most by non-straight people) tries to school us on why roxane's essay has a valid argument. Not buying it. "Pride isn't done around police" is just laughable. Note all the comments of our brave officers who came out and walked with their gay and lesbian allies. We lived through don't ask don't tell. no thanks. Heed your own words Alexander, "People will do unspeakable things if an authority tells them to."
22
@Alexander Roberts nobody is born to dress certain ways, speak certain ways, have certain cultures, religions etc.
Should we bar Catholics from marching because of the church's stances, past and present, on homosexuality?
Why parse things this way? It only undermines the claims of tolerance and inclusion. You really don't have a logical or ethical leg to stand on here.
15
@Alexander Roberts Alexander, you don't get to decide how I celebrate Pride. I celebrate all LGBTQ lives. I celebrate inclusiveness.
You want to be petty and bigoted? Do it on your own time.
20
It’s really irritating that a NYT story today is headlined that “Pride” said cops aren’t welcome l that is so misleading: they are welcome out of uniform and unarmed.
8
I was reading about Stonewall this week and began wondering why -- of all the odd places in the world to stage a revolution -- this one discovered its beginning in a bar.
But then the answer came to me in a flash that bars were one of the few places in the world that in 1969 permitted gays the freedom to stage their revolution. With very few exceptions, churches, synagogues and mosques did not.
Times have changed. Gays in America are now in places where few of us could have imagined they would be 50 years later.
What next for them?
As an outsider to gay culture who has long been sympathetic to their desire to live as normal people in the world, I hope it will be the moderation of their drinking, particularly drinking in bars, which I don’t think of as good places for anybody to build a good life in and hope they will be using less of as time moves on.
https://www.advocate.com/commentary/2015/12/02/gay-men-we-have-drinking-problem
3
Wokeness will do us in.
In a recent conversation with a neice and nephew, for whom I am the favorite Uncle, I challenged them on a bit of exclusionary language regarding a politician who 30 years ago had taken the wrong position.
I pointed out to them that as a gay guy if I held a grudge against every politician or employer who had not been 100% Pro Gay 25 years ago, but had in recent years become one our strongest allies...if i held a grudge against that person I would be shooting myself in the foot.
There was a time, and yes, the Stonewall riot and first years of Parades, were about combating Police brutality.
As a result of Parades and community organizing and involvement in political campaigns we gradually gained more civil rights (protections), and I remember the elation when the Mayor, Chief of Police and U.S. Senator carried the Banner at the front of the Parade.
I remember the satisfaction when Gay, Lesbian, and Bi Police Officers and Firefighters could march in the parade. (even using a firetruck) This was a signal employees could be out without fear of repercussion.
I remember when Dallas County, TX, elected a Lesbian as sheriff.
The last year we have been reminded time and time again of a Police culture that is violent and prejudiced. A law enforcement culture greatly in need of reform.
But, there are many GLBTQ police officers, who like the rest of us, seek acceptance and welcome in their own community.
To exclude them is punishing our own.
32
So it OK to discriminate against a group of your own? I don’t get it and I must say it has turned me off of this Organization.
Indicting 32,000 individuals and the Gay members of the NYPD as Brutal is so ridiculous, disgraceful and discriminatory!
OH and they will provide their own Security, less see the result of that fiasco.
15
I have a question since there is no more gay neighborhood or gay oppression in broader scale .... Do we even still need pride when we have social media?
Just wondering
2
@dog girl
I lived in both the DC and Philly Gayborhoods . The war was won ... it's the peace we need to work on. Bring those final parts of the community into the mainstream of acceptance. It's natural as people gain acceptance the reason for living in one place or socializing separately goes away.
We marched to be included equally .... what's the current march about?
2
LGBTQ cops belong at Pride.
16
The conservative black economist Thomas Sowell was once asked by Charlie Rose why he goes ‘against the grain of fellow African-Americans.’ he replied: “You mean fellow African-American intellectuals. But I don’t think African-American intellectuals are any more typical of African-Americans than white intellectuals are of whites.”
This is the first thing I thought of after reading this NYT editorial.
10
So sad.
3
I'm black and queer like Roxanne Gay. She must thus know as I do, that there bullies and bigots in every group. If the metric is membership in a group that had brutalized people like us, no one should be allowed to march in pride.
Homophobia is still rampant among blacks personally, and among whites politically, given that a majority of whites still vote Republican, a party that still has opposition to gay marriage in its platform and that wants to allow Jim Crow business discrimination against gay customers and employees. In addition, white supremacy and segregation are rampant in the gay community.
Should we now ban black folk and white folk from Pride in response? I thought Pride was for all queer people and their allies, silly me.
26
Simply wrong!
10
NO! Cops do not belong in that parade. I never thought I would hear myself speak out against cops. But they came out of the racist, brutal closet with vigor. I see them now as violent, angry thugs. Not all, of course, but many.
9
Thank you for writing this. The Editorial Board’s article in support of the NYPD was insane. And that article is not open for comment. Thank you so much for your rebuttle!
9
Just to put a fine point on it: you’re saying that they can attend, but they have to check part of their identity at the door?
I assume clergy should just leave their clerical collars at home? Physicians have done some reprehensible things, so we wouldn’t want them to be represented either. What about lawyers? Are any professional groups welcome, or do we want LGBTQ youth to think gay people belong only in fashion, food, and sex work?
Oh, and journalists have a spotty record with the queers, let’s leave them out too.
21
Roxane Gay is laying down the law, folks, and you best listen up quick!
LOL. Not so fast, Ms. Gay. Most of us in the gay world have quite a different opinion on this matter.
18
What a misguided piece of nonsense by Miss Gay. This gay man will stay far away from "Pride" as long as people like here are dictating things. Shameful.
26
I agree with Ms Gay. Let them leave their guns at home &march in civilian clothing like everyone else...
6
This cop bashing has got to stop.
Why do people paint with such a broad brush? Most cops are wonderful servants and oh so necessary, doing the jobs most of us could never do.
Like helping in the worst of situations.
I’m so disappointed in The NYT for publishing such nasty baiting opinion pieces.
If it hits the fan who do people call....ghostbusters?
18
Of what, precisely, are you “proud”? Of something over which you have essentially no control and into which you had no input? “Proud” of gathering with other people whose sole connection to you is quirky sexuality? What’s the difference between being “proud” of being gay and “proud” of being (say) white? Female? Left handed? 5'3"?
So, now, the same folks who demanded to “proudly” march in the SPD parade as gay, despite the fact that what they do in bed has precisely zip to do with their Irish heritage revile cops today as bearing the mark of Cain in consequence of actions taken long before the individual cops in question were born. It certainly is an Irish trait: never forget – or forgive – a grudge.
So, lots of Black “trans” have been murdered, but the same folks who don’t want to go to the police now complain that these killings are unsolved ... by the police? Blacks in general are hugely more likely to be murdered – almost always by other Blacks. 7500 Blacks were murdered in 2019, and you name 27 through half of 2021 who were “gender nonconforming”. According to my math, that’s about .7% of total Black murder victims. In short, such GNC people are just about perfectly statistically represented.
As we saw just this last week at the Floyd apotheosis, violence and leftist causes are intimately related. Let some member of this “unruly community” act like leftists often do, and, then, the author will whine that the cops she reviles didn’t show up fast enough.
6
I am a straight man that had the pleasure of marching in the 50th anniversary parade in NYC in 2019. My close friend is a lesbian and police officer. She invited me. It was an amazing day and experience i will never forget. I marched with the police in uniform. THEY WERE APPLAUDED!! All of us (those marching and watching) were happy and supporting each other. THATS WHAT THIS IS ABOUT! Love is love - remember?! What a terrible opinion article. Stop demonizing police!! How dare you be the judge of who can wear what to an event. Should i ask a gay person to leave a straight bar because of what they are wearing?!? Insanity. In one breathe you are defending those who have been asked to tone it down and in the other breath, insisting those you don’t support not wear specific clothes (police uniform). What a hypocrite. Pride weekend is always one of the best weekends in NYC. This article sours it and is full of hate. The opposite of what pride is all about. Terrible job NYT and Roxane Gay.
27
This is so wrong.
18
Ironically, the gay cops to be so biasedly excluded from marching in uniform in Gay Pride are precisely those that have done the most to combat systemic homophobia in the NYPD.
https://nypost.com/2018/12/17/how-a-small-group-of-lgbtq-cops-changed-the-nypd-forever/
20
So, should LGBTI people never become cops? What a stupid position to take: that because there are racist, anti/LGBTI cops, ALL LGBTI cops are banned from marching as cops? These police weren’t the ones who hurt gay people in 1969. BTW, there were MANY, MANY whites at the Stonewall uprising.
21
The divisiveness wrought by the progressive side of this country is deplorable; not the people who did the forging rather the terrible consequence of their thoughts and actions.
11
Thank you for so eloquently stating the thoughts that have been rambling through my brain lately. I am a trans woman and the police do not protect me. The state does not protect me. My community protects me - the other queerdos, the sex workers, the phalanx of trans and non-binary people that shelter me from the winds of abuse. To the commenters stating that pride without police is untenable: stay home.
I, like many other trans people, have horror stories about dealing with police and state. It is not designed for us. We are always seen as outliers; as friction in a cruel machine to be bent or rejected. The history of queer acceptance is one of a pendulum. There is no comfort when society swings in our favor because it will assuredly swing back. After sticking my wet thumb in the air, I think we’re on a major downswing these days.
8
@Colleen No we are not .... it's better and will get better.
It's called understanding
5
How are you going to change minds and evolve if you can’t forgive? Excluding police just further alienates the remaining police that want to harass you. Allowing them will cause the harassers to pause and think . . . “Some of us are in this parade . . .” Hopefully, instead of seeing the LGBT community as “other” they will begin to see them as a part of “us”.
11
Cancel culture lives because we give it oxygen. There has never been a perfect American, we are all individuals and we need to love ourselves and realize we are all on this journey of life, every last color of us who are on this journey ,
No one has the right to step on us and if you are a member of a group that hates, then you don't buy a ticket to be on our train of life.
Simple but factual, life is to shor to spend it fighting for acknowledging that you exist.
We all exist and if you don't like it to bad.
5
In 2019 (most recent year I can find stats for) 16,425 people were murdered, or were victims of non-negligent homicide. A 2016 UCLA study found 0.6% of people identify as transgender, meaning that all else being equal, there would have been 98 murdered transgender people in 2019. In contrast, the HRC states that "at least 25 transgender or gender non-conforming people were fatally shot or killed by other violent means" in 2019.
As a parent of a gender non-conforming child, I don't make this point to belittle violence by any means, but to point out sloppy journalism. The math was obvious. Find a better way to illustrate the violence, and daily threat of violence, that transgender people face.
10
The problem with this piece is that it lumps all police together when police are citizens with changing attitudes, with multiple religions and sexual orientations
15
No, because there's no such thing as an LGBT cop. Seriously, isn't it all about INCLUSION?
6
This is incredibly unfortunate. I had a lot of respect for the author until I read this opinion. I am a member of the LGBT community. I have friends who are LGBT and wear a badge. How ignorant and disgusting that you feel that excluding someone is ok. Next time you need help, why don't you call your neighbor instead of 911. I am so grateful for the members of my community who wear this badge, clearly, you aren't.
22
Inclusiveness is just that, accepting anyone gay or gay friendly.
10
I am surprised NYT allows such an unpretentiously discriminating article to be published. To exclude a group of people based on their occupation regardless of their individual characters is discriminating and is forbidden by our constitutions. There might be some bad cops, but there are many more good cops! As an Asian American, I am grateful to the untiring effort of police to fight the recent surge of hate crimes against Asians. It hurts to see our police being defunded, demonized and demoralized, while crimes in big cities across the country are skyrocketing. Stop painting a broad stroke of hatred against our police. The left’s bashing against the police is getting really ugly
14
Are we saying that police uniforms belong in the closet?
Ironic, isn't it............
21
Roxanne Gay and her ilk are no different than the FoxNews crowd, and no less destructive. They all want to hear only what they believe to be true, and exclude anyone who does not think what they say is gospel. Rather than try to be an example that others might emulate, they only want to sit, march, or whatever in an echo chamber with no notes discordant to their sensitive ears. A pox on the FoxNews and the Roxane Gay type crowds.
By the way, Roxamne, how are your purity tests working for you getting a "progressive" elected mayor in NYC?
21
@Stuart Wilder - Both are extremes. Both are dangerous.
13
The title of this article is needlessly provocative. Ms. Gay's thesis is that armed and uniformed security is unwarranted for Pride, not that serving police members aren't welcome to join in the celebration as participants.
In fact, she lays out the EXACT OPPOSITE argument of her title towards the end of her article. She says that cops are welcome, provided they are unarmed and not in uniform.
So why write such a title? And why did the Times decide to publish it? Can it be that needlessly fanning culture war flames is too attention grabbing and profitable to resist?
For an organization that rails against fake and distorted news constantly, it's sad to see the New York Times participate in it when it's to their advantage.
2
The NYPD certainly has many faults, but they do not actively "torment the gay community". Excluding gay officers in uniform is childish and short-sighted.
And why the NYT would print this ridiculous piece is beyond me.
16
No one is excluding LGBTQ cops from any pride parade. They can march like the rest of the marchers, in whatever clothing they'd like - just not a cop's uniform. Gay bakers won't be marching in toques and gay welders won't be marching in face shields.
The last thing the community needs is to be identified by an individual's profession.
3
Teachers, politicians, psychologists, doctors, pastors, belong to professions with a history of damaging hostility to LGBTQ people, and in many communities in America these people still do a lot of damage. Ban them too! Oh, and don't forget parents. Parents are the worst.
10
Thank you, Roxane Gay, for cleansing my palate of the NYT’s awful pro-cop op-ed about Pride! Police do not make the most vulnerable in our communities safer. For years, they preyed on us. I am not about to shed tears for a cop who’s sad about not being able to wear their uniform at Pride- the LGBTQ community has suffered far worse.
8
If a group of thugs decide to bust up your parade, you’ll wish the cops were there
You can’t demand inclusiveness if you insist on being exclusive.
13
They’re here.
At times they have riot gear.
Get used to it.
8
Wow! This is total nonsense. Our core problem in this country today: "One side" screaming at the "other side": We don't need you, you are banned by me, the Righteous One who Knows All. The message here clearly being: Peace and love to ALL... who agree with me. Please stop.
14
Every bigot I’ve ever encountered has justified their prejudice in similar terms: most [insert group] seem nice but if you had been [mugged/harassed/abused/harmed] like me you’d also be suspicious.’ The woke lipstick doesn’t make this pig any prettier.
18
Maybe bigots who hate all people of a particular profession shouldn't be at the Pride parade.
How can we screen them out?
14
In 1982, I was brutalized as a gay man. Six cops picked me out of a crowd of dancing gay men and used their batons and boots to break my eye-socket and cover me in deep bruises. I was arrested and convicted of "resisting arrest" and "assaulting an officer", even though the lead cop had over 160 citizen complaints against him.
As a result, I had terrible PTSD every time that I even saw a police officer.
What caused me to heal and move beyond, after several decades? Attending a Pride Festival and meeting cops actively recruiting LGBTQ folks to join up. That told me that the old regime was over and gone.
Every year afterward, I rejoiced at seeing large numbers of uniformed cops and first-responders in the parade.
I have been proudly, loudly, openly gay since 1975. In 2021, you can STILL find queer folks wanting to even evict all HETEROSEXUAL folks from Pride.
I know, now that I am old, that chasing away allies is idiotic. We need all of us like-minded, supportive folks, together.
572
I disagree. Everyone belongs, with a peaceful heart, at a Pride Parade. Have them leave their guns behind, yes. But welcome them, to give us all hope, to remind us of what we already know, that we are everywhere, that we belong everywhere, and we always have. To remind us not to judge, and not to pre-judge. "The holiest place on earth is where an ancient hatred has become a present love." (ACIM). So let us love.
8
Wow! Exclusion as a community harmony tool. “Deny who you are and you can join us” was vicious when used to crush gays and it’s vicious when used to crush police. Writers like this make me wonder if we’re any progress or switching tyrants.
17
What do you call someone who lumps together everyone in another group?
A bigot.
Most of the NYPD serving today weren’t even born during the Stonewall era.
The cops who want to march are part of the solution, not the problem.
27
Should we not allow priests to march in their cassocks? What about Imams? Rabbis? Organized religion has done far more to oppress LGBTQ people than the police ever have. This is a complex issue, so I don't mean to sound flippant. But it's unsettling to me that an organization founded on the principles of "pride" has chosen to shame a subgroup for their occupation, regardless of how damning their history might be. I don't envy those responsible for making/correcting this decision. It is not so easy to turn the other cheek.
14
How else can we characterize this essay except that Roxane Gay has just gone cancel culture on police at the Pride parade?
21
Change the name of the march from pride to petty.
19
Is it easy being a gay police officer and coming out about it?
Is it strange to be shut out by those you identify with AND by those whose possible ridicule may make you a target?
Wouldn't an open gay element on the force benefit L.T.B.T.Q. people, and ease the destructive Us/Them division?
12
"Our history is young, and we have not forgotten it. For decades, the police have tormented our communities. They enforced laws about how we dressed, where we congregated and whom we had sex with. They beat us, blackmailed us and put us in jail."
------
Roxane Gay hails from a small sect of gays and lesbians who do not represent the whole entire gay population, but who dominate gay politics.
They are, generally speaking, more gender non-conforming and less masculine, if they are men. And, as for the lesbians among them, I don't think they include the most mannish ones.
There is a gender segregation among the gay movement that involves exclusion of those gays and lesbians who are the most masculine or mannish -- the very same gays and lesbians who are most likely to JOIN the police force themselves. As the truth is, one's occupation is heavily tied to how one performs gender.
I'm gay but masculine and can blend in and have known lots of the more masculine gay men and bisexuals. They are excluded from LGBTQ politics, and erased so badly, we don't know they are erased because the mainstream media pretends that gays of more masculine bent just don't exist.
Gay construction workers, gay cops, gay auto-mechanics, etc.
They're not publicly pilloried in the New York Times or the American Psychological Association's missives about "toxic masculinity" but they are privately treated with the same contempt you see displayed towards cops here. "Know your place" is the attitude.
14
Hmmm, I'm going to play the "intersectionalism" liberal card now. Isn't it important to understand what it's like to live in the intersection between being a police officer and being queer? But in that spirit, I agree, the uniforms have to go.
2
Maybe when you get done with your ever tedious whining, you can explain how gay women keep heterosexual women from being counted as victims of sex or gender bias hate. You can explain how lesbians took over women’s’ groups and pushed the straight women into submissive roles. You can explain why some lesbians don’t think heterosexual women — or their history — should be permitted to teach and be taught in women’ studies classes. And you can try to explain how it is that we are supposed to honor your pronouns by forcing a pejorative one -cissexual- on us without our permission. Get over yourself. People will treat you with respect if and when you stop abusing them.
15
@Tina Trent - Thank you for your comment on “cis”! I think it’s not pejorative, but I, too, resent being labeled by anyone not of our group — a group consisting of the majority of humanity.
6
"We don’t need them at Pride providing security."
Wow. So what happens when a homophobic psychopath attempts to drive a truck through a crowd of parade watchers?
As for participating in the parade, in uniform, my sense is that the type of cops who are inclined to march in a Pride parade are not the type inclined to brutalize Black people.
15
@Todd nyc - Haven’t you heard the Left’s solution to police brutality: defund the police and replace armed cops with social workers? I’m a liberal Democrat who deplores the Right AND the Left.
5
What a narrow focus. Some cop somewhere else was anti-gay and so all queer cops need to not wear their uniform to “conform with Pride”. It’s why I’ve nearly given up. As a gay man in his late 50s who’s been out over 30 years, it sickens me that we’ve all marched around for all sorts of things — inclusion being number one — and now find ourselves picking and choosing who to include.
There’s a subset angry that Chase bank or Google or Coca-Cola “prides their way” into parades as nothing more than a “marketing ploy”. Well, seriously, what isn’t?
To deny NYC police the right to march, in uniform if they wish, puts the gay community on par with the Catholic Diocese of New York that denies gays the right to openly march on St Patrick’s Day.
14
Saying all police are “XYZ” is no different than saying all LGBTQ are “XYZ” or all Asians are “fill in the blank”. Asking LGBQT police officers not to participate in gay community events is every bit as repulsive as what bad police officers have done over the decades. If you want people to accept factual truths about the gay community, it’s people and history, you cannot run around pedaling your own biases and misinformation about an entire group due to their righteously chosen occupation.
16
the "right" haircut? just asking-
6
How for years the gay community relentlessly pursued representation in NYC Saint Patrick's Day Parade, dreaming bloody murder because they were denied. How is this any different? Gay police officers who have marched in Pride, for decades never were at Stonewall or were part of the violence that spurred the movement. You are all hypocrites foaming at the mouth to show an anti-police stance and bring yourselves relevance with the turmoil in this country, SHAME SHAME on you weak people.
10
First they came for the police...
10
The virtually unanimous rejection of this author's views by close to 600 comments is heart warming.
18
Marginalizing and excluding the decent hard-working folks who make up most of the police departments around the country. Sure policing, a difficult social function has needed reform, but excluding and marginalizing? Stupid.
What a very un-woke argument.
12
Segregation is the answer to but I hurt!
Why forgive when you can divide and continue the animosity?
Gay pride should only include alphabet/? People.
Black Lives Matter is only for Black people.
The rest of US should be ashamed for thinking of supporting anything that we may not have twenty years ago.
Nothing to see here; move along now.
6
L.G.B.T.Q. cops are your people. Perhaps your discomfort comes from the thought that one of your people would choose to be a cop. Have you talked to some L.G.B.T.Q. cops? I heard you could easily find them at NYC Pride... Oh, wait...
12
What an annoying, small-mined, and bitter column.
1. Why is the author intent on discriminating against the LGBTQ police officers throughout the country? Are they the police officers now "oppressing" gays, blacks and other minorities? Somehow, I don't think so. BTW, Ms. Gay should take a few minutes to listen on line to the heartfelt lament of a gay Sergeant in the Seattle Police Department on being denied the right to march in the Gay Pride parade -- perhaps it would lead her to re-think her prejudices.
2. What is particularly obnoxious is that Ms. Gay and those who are opposed to the gay police officers participating are the same people who selfishly and hypocritically demand that police officers protect the gay marchers. Why in the world should the gay or straight cops do so and why in the world would people like Ms. Gay trust those terribly bigoted gay officers to protect her and her kind?
13
Saying cops should not be allowed to march in Pride Parades because so many cops are anti-gay and oppressed gay folk is like saying white people should be banned from Black Lives Matters Protest marches because many whites are racists and oppressed black people in the past Such an idea blames all, guilt and innocent; and prevents the witness of gay police and their bi and straight colleagues who may want to participate. If Pride NYC bans cops for the sins of others why not all clergy, teachers, psychologists...? Lumping together people as all the same in opinion and behavior within a profession is not better than doing it by race or religion or ethnicity, as in the Jew, or the Black, or the homosexual. or the Catholic or women or the German....
10
Have people forgotten that cops had to fight NYPD discrimination in order to march at Pride in their uniforms?
Those of us who lived through the 80's and 90's remember how straight police officers used to turn their backs once the GOAL marched by.
From a NBC News article:
"But even in the mid-’90s, Rodriguez said the NYPD had a long way to go in terms of LGBTQ acceptance. That’s why in 1996, the year he took the helm at GOAL, the group sued the NYPD for discrimination. As part of the suit, GOAL wanted to march in the annual NYC Pride March in uniform and with the official police marching band — a request that had been rejected in previous years. By June of that year, GOAL had won concessions from the NYPD and was permitted to march in uniform, to use the marching band and to host an event at NYPD headquarters. The lawsuit worked. Rodriguez said even though GOAL had been participating in the NYC Pride March for years before the lawsuit, it was different afterwards. The roar from the community was 10 times louder than it was when I first marched outside of uniform,” Rodriguez said."
13
As with the George Floyd memorial zone, they ought then to be free to shoot each other, or be victimized, with nobody around to help?
No EMT service either?
Remember the accidental crush that killed 47 celebrating Israelis a few weeks ago, for lack of professional crowd control?
No police. Right. Good plan.
12
If Pride is first and first and foremost a celebration of community, then exclusion of any group is plain wrong. Let the kinksters walk without shame, and let police officers do the same. We have fought for decades for LGTBQ groups to march in other parades ( e.g the Saint Patricks Day Parade) and we rightfully did not accept the idea that any one could simply join as an individual, just not as an identifiable group. Now we are supposed to be the ones excluding others? No less shameful really
9
When you become an elitist like Ms Gay, write articles about sharing her favorite recipes and then exclude a group who stuck their necks out to express their identity .Its wrong!
13
@Freelance Illustrator It IS wrong. I would suggest that Ms Gay consider the issue carefully before writing something.
2
How quickly the oppressed become the oppressor.
20
Some animals are more equal than others.
6
Who is in charge of this Gay Pride Parade, Bibi Netanyahu, Religious zealots or political partisans? All have been part of oppressed communities that, when the tables were turned, began oppressing others. I will have a hard time expressing solidarity with the movement if I have to accept every L.G.B.T.Q. person but they can discriminate against the P.olice.
8
Sorry Ms. Gay I'm not with you on this one. As someone who worked the phones in Dade Co. Florida fighting against Anita Bryant's campaign of hatred I firmly believe ours is a movement of inclusion NOT exclusion. We need to build bridges not barriers, and we also need to teach by example. We should welcome the police officers who want to join us and at the same time react with all our might whenever the rights of our ever expanding "family" are violated. In my opinion your method is counterproductive and goes against the very nature of our movement. There are many good cops. They don't deserve our rejection.
16
The arguments for and against allowing cops in the Pride parade certainly don't need my opinion either away as a cis baby boomer
male.
Allow me instead to rant again at the linguistic imperialism of the PC word " Latinx".
How dare native English speakers invent a word that is completely
unpronouncable in Spanish.
Spanish , unlike English, is gendered. The woke left privileged academics deign to ignore the rules of a centuries old, phonetic language.
Hay que lastima!!
The everyday Spanish speaker from Madrid to Ponce to Manila to Santiago
would laugh at this imposition by Yankee phonies.
12
@David L - I’m a straight white Boomer woman. I’m an ally of LGBTIQ people (in fact, I marched in the first Gay Pride march). However, I will never accept the ugly-sounding word “cis” as a label for the majority of human beings — a label placed on us not by us but by others. Why should we not label ourselves?
8
@Feral Kitty I guess my heteronormativity is showing..ps if u ever run in to me in Brooklyn and you hear me say made up pronouns(mir, zir, thir) feel free to give me a Three Stooges smack
4
The NY Times insists on repeating “gay cops not welcome” but the truth is, they are welcome and can still march, as individuals. It’s the organizations, NYPD and GOAL that are banned.
3
@Tom G. The headline is completely accurate.
Pride's position is no better than "don't ask, don't tell." You can attend, but you'll need to hide who you are.
It's outrageous and exclusionary.
14
Gay's desperate need to always be a victim is on full display here.
Sorry for the bad experiences. But not everyone has those experiences.
Deal with it.
Grow.
Or stay a whiny victim who feels better by becoming an oppressor yourself.
16
Cops haven’t been banned from marching in pride parades. LGBTQ cops are being banned from marching in pride parades. These are queer people who have often taken on the work of trying to change hostile and dysfunctional systems from within. We should be supporting them and celebrating their bravery not excluding them from being part of their community.
The hypocrisy of Mx Gay and other queer leaders is stunning. Why are gay cops being excluded from Pride Parades while the politicians who are responsible for creating changes in police departments are allowed to March and promote themselves. If pride parade committees really really wanted to support police change they would not allow a political official to march in the parade until real
changes are in place. But those politicians vote to fund pride committees celebrations. All I see are hypocrites like Roxanne Gay and Pride boards excluding hard working LGBTQ cops from being a part of their community while the hypocrites avoid holding the people with responsibility accountable.
16
Gay police officers are a vital part of the gay community--they should be allowed to march with the rest of us!
14
I remember when “T” was excluded from anything HRC and gay Black men were given no quarter by their churches, even while dying from AIDS.
I happened to be driven to O’Hare by a cop who was the first to come out in uniform to his knowledge. He wasn’t lonely for very long.
10
So far I haven’t seen one response out of 1.2K that supports Ms. Gay’s position.
Most of these people are, I reckon, folks just as committed to social justice as she is.
Doesn’t this avalanche of rejection say something about the wisdom of Gay’s essay?
13
"L.G.B.T.Q. officers are more than welcome to join Pride celebrations — unarmed and in civilian clothing."
Police officers who join Pride celebrations in uniform may be making a political statement. (It's a matter of interpretation, but they may be saying that the purposes and ideals of police and Pride are not incompatible.)
NFL players who kneel during the national anthem are also making a political statement. For Ms. Gay to say that the police are welcome to participate out of uniform is like the NFL saying that Colin Kaepernick is welcome to make political statements on his own time.
12
Actually, the parade should be the welcoming venue for “everyone” who wants. The “authority” of the parade should not have the same concerns or values as the NFL. One “could” argue that Kapernick doesn’t have the right to hijack a large commercial venue for his cause. But the parade has no such conflicts.
4
@Alberto Abrizzi: Yes, I meant to address my comment to those who already think that it's deplorable that the NFL should try to do that. Arguably, the organizers of a parade do not have as much of a right to tell the participants what opinions they may or may not express at the parade as a business that is putting on an entertainment event has to tell the participants what they may say to the audience.
Sorry I am Gay but I also value our police and in this day and age they have a place in the March should they wish to March and a place in securing it. I feel that pride has been taken over by a dark left wing element that is destroying the inclusivity of the event and seeking to promote division and hate in our community
Sorry but If this ban of police goes ahead in the name of pride I will not be attending the March, virtual or otherwise and I will disavow this organization from this point on.
13
72 year old lesbian/bisexual women who came out on 1986. Disagree with Ms Gay! Exclusion is never a good idea. Expand our community, rather than limiting it.
14
Not sure I could disagree with Ms Gay more.
I'm 65, have been out, about and at parades since late 80s, fighting for every LGBTQ+ person's right to be proud, including those who choose to be cops.
I'm so tired of those who have been oppressed becoming oppressors all dressed up as enlightened.
Thank you LGBTQ+ cops. Not my calling but I'm grateful it's yours and celebrate you.
16
I’m a gay man—I’m done with pride. Also, don’t ever think you’re better or different from those bigots on the political right. You’re exactly the same.
16
"Oh, be nice!", from the John Waters Simpson's episode.
2
It just seems to me that if the real point of Pride is a cheerful public demonstration in favor of inclusivity and unity and the real churn of human sexuality and doing away with the fear of being who you are (not to mention goosing the mean-spirited and the homophobic), well, then about the last thing you want to do is to exclude, erase, get all sober-minded and attack each other and drone on about being afraid.
9
"Cops Don't Belong at Pride," writes Ms. Gay.
No, Ms. Gay, the only thing that doesn't belong at Pride is the kind of exclusionary mindset you're advocating for.
16
Roxanne gay doesn’t speak for me. The NY pride parade committee are making a huge mistake here. Excluding members or our own community who are working for equality but allowing the politicians who have failed to reform police departments to march in the parade and promote themselves?
Someone please explain to me how that makes any sense?
Facebook gets to march but cops working from within for equality are excluded? Queer Facebook employees are complaining about their treatment by the company. Amazon just killed unionization efforts among their workers. So why do politicians and corporate flunkies get to march? There is only one answer possible- it is because people like Roxanne Gay are more interested in political theater than holding people with real power to account. They ain’t got the courage to bite the hand that feeds them so instead they have found a new scapegoat. Rank and file cops. It’s an old ga,e blame the little guy and hide from the people who should be held accountable. I thought queer people were smarter than this type of betrayal.
13
So much for inclusion.
9
Nothing more hypocritical than a "nonconformist" who is conforming.
Policing is not what is was 50 years ago and to make blanket assumptions is doing zero good and further fueling hatred to the officers who ensure everyones rights and safety.
Shame on you.
11
What a ridiculous column. It’s not police that are being excluded from the parades, it’s LGBTQ officers who are. How hard must it be for any police person to come out and then to get slapped in the face like this? The author of this column needs to get over herself and instead of coming from a place of anger, she needs to show generosity of spirit. Her low point comes when she says the police can still march as civilians with no uniforms. Sounds just like the St. Pats parade organizers who said gays could join as along as they were not identified as such.
9
I came out in the late 80's after college ... spent time and owned property in Philly, DC and eventually NYC and I can't remember any negative interaction with the police. And trust me -- the cities were dicey back then.
Especially in Philly and DC -- the cops were stationed near the bars and we would thank them for being there. I remember Ed Rendell going to a gay bar in 87 when he ran and lost for mayor -- Philly (first time). He was district attorney
I get that stonewall is a big thing now and yes the parade started there ..but frankly, no one ever mentioned it back then in the 80's We had bigger fish to fry than attack the police who were now protecting us. When the police finally marched in the parade .... it was a proud moment. I remember marching for Act-up in Philly ... crying and thinking of the people at the time with no hope ... The cops were lined up protecting us from the nuts. You don't forget that.
Sorry ..... count me out
11
It's ridiculous and mean to exclude a group. ALL policeman are NOT BAD. It is small minded to paint them all with a broad brush. Stop acting like this! It's an embarrassment to humanity.
10
Cops DON'T belong at Pride –– remember, Stonewall was a riot. But remember also that the New York Times' original coverage of this riot did not include a single interview with the rioters –– choosing instead to focus solely on the perspective of the police. So here's another take: the New York Times doesn't belong at Pride, and has no moral authority to police Pride. The alternative is almost farcical hypocrisy.
To whomever is policing these comments: I hope you feel good about defending a corporation which did not care about LGBT or black or any other marginalized lives until it was profitable to do so.
9
Gay cops should conceal themselves because they are perceived to be enemies of gay people? It would seem to be a victory to include police in uniform who are gay to show that even police accept gay people, now.
10
Which other professions march in uniform during Pride? Do gay teachers wear a cap and gown? Lesbian doctors wear their lab coat?
1
Clergy wear collars. Jewish marchers often wear kippot.
3
I’m a trans woman. I’m absolutely tired of cis, white gays telling the community what’s good for us. No cops at Pride, not ever. Some of these modern pride parades go out of their way to make old straight men feel more welcome and included than me.
I’m sorry, Pride isn’t for everyone. It’s not for the police. It’s not for the repressed. It’s for queer people. Not “gay” as in happy, but “queer” as in “stonewall was a riot.”
7
@Jerome S.
The old white guys were the ones out there fighting and protesting -- and watched friends die by the handful.
I'm glad they did as the world is a better place .. you need to leave your hate behind and move forward.
Make the best of the new world and be glad you were not born 50 years ago. They police would have been the least of your problem
5
@Jerome S. Jerome, Pride doesn't belong to just you.
You can hate the input of cis, white gays all you want. But they have a voice too because they are also part of the community.
Sounds like Pride isn't for you.
2
@Jerome S. - I’m a woman who is happy with the genitals and chromosomes I was born with — as is the vast majority of humanity. I embrace all trans people for being who they are. However, I will never accept the label - cis - they have put on us. No one but those in any group should label members of that group.
4
This column makes me so angry. I was not just marching. I was out as a gay man teaching in Oakland public schools in 1991. Do you know how rare that was, and how hard? A few of us did that to help change the world. If you think the job is done, you are clueless. Across the whole country we still need a clear message: GLBTQ people are everywhere, we are your neighbors, your teachers, your children, your firefighters, your police. This idea of telling gay cops they can't be proud with the rest of is morally offensive and tactically stupid. That is even more true given how we need to reform policing, not less. Please Ms. Gay, reconsider!
14
Maybe if I were gay, I'd see it your way but, frankly, I think any time society -- everyone -- can see the LBGTQ community represented by people they "know" and admire, it's a positive thing. I like being in Target or Michael's and seeing tee-shirts and hats and flags celebrating PRIDE. It's putting it out there for everyone to see -- not just the straight people but also the young gay person including the very young child who sees it and relates to it and asks about it -- it reinforces with people that there is nothing to hide but instead something to celebrate just as we are proud to celebrate our university, our team etc. I think a gay cop in uniform sends a message, in fact, it would be good if LGBTQ members of the armed forces joined in the parade and wore their uniforms along with doctors, nurses, teachers, firemen, clergy, construction workers etc. Let people know that we are all human beings, we are all brothers and sisters, we are all in this together and and we come in every shape, color, nationality and do all kind of jobs every day.
15
I respectfully disagree. I always believed that Gay Pride was about celebrating who you are, not what one’s occupation happens to be. This seems discriminatory- something that goes against the fight for inclusion.
7
This is just SO wrong. What better message could you send to non-gay cops than that gays are cops, too, just like gays are doctors, firemen, cooks, and writers.
And as for their not having been "disowned by their families for carrying a gun and badge," YOU really need to gain a little self-awareness.
14
The NY Times Editorial Board disagrees with you, as evidenced in their May 18th Editorial, which can be found below this article. And they made some really good points!
5
I love the hypocrisy here. In one sentence you mention police have a history of harassing L.G.B.T.Q. people for how they dress. In another sentence you say L.G.B.T.Q. police can March in the parade but they can’t ware their uniforms. Wow! Now that’s interesting. I know how this is going to be taken but I’m going to say this anyway. I spent my early years in the arts. Besides my father the two most important men and role models in my early life happens to be gay. They were my teachers and my mentors. They were loving and they were tough. I have lost good friends to aids in the 80’s and 90’s. I understand that past behavior by police toward the gay community at times was abhorrent. I also understand that when some intolerant idiot beats a person who Is gay the first phone call is to 911. If we as a society continue this pattern of exclusion we will never come together. You are not invited because someone in your profession did something that you had nothing to do with is not going to solve any problems. L.G.B.T.Q. police are real people. Let society and the community know they are there. What a short sighted narcissistic view.
15
This is so wrong on so many levels. I wouldn’t even have printed such an opinion. Those that have been excluded seek to exclude? Where is the logic and morality in that. Wrong wrong wrong.
7
Can’t Ms gay find anything of greater importance to get inflamed about? So much hurt and injustice in the world this tirade seems so trivial. Let people who have pride - in themselves and their uniforms - march. And let the NYT I use it’s power of the printed word on more pressing issues.
8
Back in the day, police terrorized us and now they serve and protect. Because we changed the narrative and joined their ranks. Having been excluded from the Boston St Patrick's Day parade because we are gay, you would think that we would have learned. Why is this any differant? I expect so much better from our pride celebrations. I realize this is a greater kidney punch to the women's community, but it hurts all of us. Shame on you. You can count me out.
9
The police aren't, or shouldn't be, an occupying force. They are a part of every community and to say they must be an invisible part of the gay community seems very hypocritical. And I'm tired of all the hypocrisy pervading our society.
12
If good cops want to be a Pride or BLM, tell them to change their departments. I don’t want to hear any more, “We aren’t all like that,” or “It’s only a few bad apples.”
If they want to participate in civic space, they need to change the way they do business. The Red army didn’t have time to distinguish between good and bad Germans, they just killed them all and let God handle the sorting.
So if you are a good cop, get speak your mind. Get loud. Get in the face of the criminal cops and tell them you will burn them the first chance you get.
And after a generation of that work, we MIGHT let you March at Pride.
8
That work has been going on for more than a generation. Google Charlie Cochrane.
Learn your history—all of it, including the all allies and all the members of our tribe who have been shunned and attacked on every side.
2
So only Roxane Gay gets to determine who participates in Pride?
Sorry, Roxane, as you note, "We are a sprawling, unruly community."
Yes, we are, and I think there is room for gay cops (in uniform) to participate in the parade. You certainly don't speak for me.
15
Inclusion, understanding, tolerance, compassion, empathy...I wish NYT op-eds had more of that stuff. But then again, wouldn't be an NYT op-ed if it did. ;)
4
Oh I’m saddened by this and remember watching with pride the first time as the police marched with us. The left has a remarkable ability to invariably shoot itself in the foot.
15
@Norman Katz - I hope they keep shooting themselves in the foot, as long as they don’t keep shooting liberal, effective Democrats in the foot.
1
The police have always treated me, a gay, with respect. I don’t understand why, after years of allowing the police to appear in uniform in gay pride parades, they should now be restricted from appearing in uniform.
13
Not allowing someone to march in your parade
because they carry out a public duty is beyond
inane, it is self-defeating.
Let us remove the Police from the Parade all -together and if some anti-Gay thugs show up, let us see how it all goes down.
11
Is Pride about "me" or "us"? It seems that for some of these organizers it's all about them. And they seem content to ruin the very thing this is supposed to be about out of hubris and pique. When you start saying "you don't belong here" then you are engaging in the very thing this event is supposed to end.
I detest it when much needed social movements get co-opted by self-centered egoists who try to use that movement and the power that goes with it in order to grind their own personal axes.
"This (fill in the blank) makes ME uncomfortable!"
Well, I've got news for you. Pride is not about you. It's about us. All of us. So you can check your attitude, your ideas of inclusion that exclude others, and your self-righteousness at the door - as they have no place at this event.
Inclusion is not a buffet, where you can pick who is and isn't included, because if you do, then you never really believed in it in the first place. You're just another poseur.
15
Let us substitute terms, like "Saint Patrick's Day Parade", "Roman Catholic", "Gay", "Irish" and "Ancient Order Of Hibernians", in the appropriate places in these identity and origins arguments, and then LBGTQIA should have remained excluded from visible participating in the Saint Patrick's Day Parade.
2
I have generally been an admirer of Roxane Gay's writing, and I understand her argument that cops shouldn't be allowed to march in uniform at Gay Pride rallies, given the history of the police harassing and arresting gay people, which was what led to the Stonewall riots, generally seen as the birth of the modern gay rights movement. Nonetheless, I think she's wrong. Gay cops marching in uniform at Gay Pride rallies (as they've been allowed to do since 1996) sends a message, an entirely heartening one, and a message America needs to hear: gay people are everywhere. They can even be found in considerable numbers in traditionally macho institutions like law enforcement. To the extent that Americans can understand that homosexuality is no big deal, that gay people can be found in all regions and in all walks of life, that homosexuals aren't terribly different from straight people with the one exception that they have a different sexual orientation, gay people in America will flourish, feel free to come out of the closet no matter where they live, be spared the discrimination and persecution that has historically plagued our community. On the other hand, if gay leaders insist on narrowing inclusion unless gays adhere to some PC agenda, the community will become marginalized and oppression will continue.
Henry Gonshak
6
So you're saying that cops are welcome at Pride if they leave their uniforms "in the closet"? How ironically retrograde of you.
10
Sorry…. I don’t have the slightest problem with cops marching in Gay parades in uniform. It’s called being inclusive, tolerant and open and shows that their are Gay Americans in every occupation. We should be happy they want to contribute to the celebration.
11
So you don't want to be hated or discriminated against, Yet you want to discriminate. Good move.
8
Just another example of the Progressives destroying their own. Al Franken, Scott Stringer, Diane Morales and now this
8
What a myopic and foolish position to take. As “family,” I categorically reject your exclusion proposal.
7
Another problem that didn’t exist, solved.
Gay cops marched under their banners peacefully and happily for decades.
Let the purification rites begin!
10
You write "And they aren’t actually being rejected" and yet you write an entire article doing exactly that. You are so wrong headed with this I don't even now where to start.
10
If other professionals are marching in their professional uniforms, then LGBTQ police should be able to also. Certainly they must - in their personal and professional lives - have earned the right through their own agonies.
This reminds me of the Womens March debacle when LGBTQ Jewish women were not allowed to carry a rainbow Star of David flag because organizers with ties to avowed anti semite Louis Farrakhan and with anti Israel groups objected.
Seriously. We are better off as allies. If there is the chance that in marching together as women or as LGBTQ persons we can take a step to bridging our antipathies - so much the better.
12
That was horrible and reported fairly by the NYT.
1
"We don’t need them at Pride providing security." Really, Ms. Gay? Ok. Let's hold two Prides. One with cops protecting our community and one with no security. Let me know how yours goes...
6
Caught in your own self righteous labyrinth. I know that it might be hard to believe, but Police are people too. The underlying ugly truth of woke culture is that inclusion only counts if all participants agree and the narrative remains intact. Dissent is not only discouraged, but punished. If you want further evidence, look how Jews are being treated by the left. Orwell remains prescient.
10
There’s an excellent companion piece in the Times today: these folks have a lot more problems than just banning cops. I wish I were surprised to see the same internal squabblng, yelling, backroom dealing, attacks and rising corporatism that charmingly distinguishes pretty much every political org there is.
I honestly hadn’t begun to understand the hassles. But I continue to think that it’s a ton better to invite everybody possible in the big stripey tent, and that it’s completely crazy to demand that your public events get run so that they can’t possibly upset anybody.
I mean, wasn’t kicking over some applecarts and having a good time pretty much the point in the first place?
3
Wrong.
The NYC Police Department has successfully protected the Pride March from skinheads, religious fanatics, Nazis, fascists, and terrorists for decades. Maybe they should not concern themselves anymore.
Good luck!
The parade hasn’t been relevant for 25 years. It should just be cancelled. It’s now just a waste of resources and an inconvenience.
5
Police routinely act as judge, jury, and executioner for black and brown people all over this country.
Pride hasn’t been relevant for 25 years? You realize gay marriage only became legal a few years ago, gay second parent adoption is still a fight, there are fourteen countries where simply being gay can get you the death penalty or life in prison, up until last year employers could legally fire you in many states for being gay or trans, federal protections do not exist for trans people, and a whole host of other problems for our community still exist?
If you’re LGBTQIA learn your history, and if you’re straight, sit down and listen instead of flouting opinions about something that doesn’t affect you.
4
@Tom K No, Tom. Our straight brothers and sisters have a voice and their opinions are welcome.
Open your mind.
2
What a stunning self-own. I cannot imagine anything more damaging to LGBT rights than this intolerant, exclusionary view advocated by Roxane Gay.
11
It gets harder to be a liberal, by the day.
The following categories seem unwelcome in the liberal coalition:
Cops (now gay cops in particular?), Jews, working-class whites, and straight white men.
It seems liberals aren’t interested in winning elections anymore.
Only virtue signaling.
14
Don’t forget Women who base their feminism in their shared biological reality with half of the people of the Earth- we are also not welcome.
7
How about a variation on your views, Roxanne? Follow my mother's motto.
Forgive and remember.
4
This essay makes me so sad. Like I don’t recognize the country we are becoming. Retreating further and further into our tighter and smaller and smaller circles. Until inevitably we are all our small pathetic and angry islands
12
So if you are a gay police officer, it's ok to publicly express your pride in your sexual orientation in a parade, but not your pride in your profession or its uniform in the same parade? There is some irony in an the managers of an event celebrating people not having to be in the closet insisting on keeping people in another closet.
7
Being a cop is not an innate part of someone’s identity, and if they want to celebrate their uniform they can do it somewhere else. Pride isn’t a celebration of anyone’s profession- it’s a reminder that exist, a call for equal rights and respect, and a time where everyone in our community can feel proud, loved, and SAFE. For many members of our community, police presence makes them feel the opposite of safe. Officers are welcome, simply leave your weapons and uniforms at home. Instead of being a cop- for one day you can choose to leave your excessive authority on the kitchen table and just be LGBTQIA.
3
Police aren't born that way.
1
How are you gonna police the no cops in uniform? Call the cops on them?
3
This woman is the single most effetive member of the 'Re elect Donald Trump' team. Literally! What we need are new laws and trainng NOT defunding and the exclusion of the police. Who made Trump POTUS in the first place?? The very same MSM who now censor those of us interested in the truth whether of the creation of Covid, the lies that Putin and Russia are responsible for evrything wrong today while stating China is less bad even as it commits genocide vs three ethnicities. The failure of 'journalists to defend Julian Assange. Earlier I was silenced for stating France was responsible for the genocide in Rwanda, now suddenlty my repressed view points are front page revelations. See UK Guardian's front page. The silence on our and Hillary Clinton's guilt over destroying not just Iraq, Yemen and Syria but Libya. My point is NOT that US police are perfect but that going too far is going too far. Most cops are NOT Derek Chauvin, nor should we make them feel like they are. Police are NOT decision makers, laws or judges but state servants. If and when innocents are judged guilty by bigoted courts and juries, blame those responsible and make the changes there. We ALL Know about the 1969 riots but that was back in 1969. Since then we have had MANY parades with friendly cops PROTECTING those in the parade. Why NOW?This is the 'woke' mental sickness of bigotry rearing it's anti democratic head again. We need a return to conversation and tolerance for others not hate filled sectarianism
7
So you don't want to make progress and move forward----you just want to revisit the past and keep your anger alive--against people whom today bear you no ill will, and are your supporters. good luck with that
5
Not sure the NYT would publish an opinion piece by a right wing fascist who calls for the exclusion of LGBTQ folks from any political or civic event so why is this kind of extremist, exclusionary rhetoric acceptable when it comes from the left? While we are in the midst of an epic fight for the soul of our very democracy, this kind of self-righteous, judgemental attitude is helpful to no one.
I am proud to march beside any uniform officer who has taken the time to show support for my community.
10
As a long-time subscriber and retired gay law enforcement professional, I can no longer justify maintaining my subscription, so I've just canceled it.
It's been a solid year of the NYTimes beating the drum about how terrible cops are, every day. I've had enough.
9
What hypocrisy. For years the organizers of the St. Patrick’s Day Parade denied a group of LGBT-identifying Irish-Americans to March in the parade under an Irish LGBT banner. They could participate provided that they didn’t display any indicia of their LGBT organization. Now the Pride parade organizers turn around and tell LGBT cops you can march, but must hide your affiliation with the NYPD Gay Officers Action League.
8
All are equal, but some are more equal than others. Animal Farm, anyone? I was foolish enough to think the rainbow flag stood for inclusivity...how foolish and 20th century of me.
8
I remember attending Pride in San Francisco in the 80s and 90s. I remember that when a group of 10-20 SFPD officers in uniform marched by, at first I wondered, "Are they policing the parade or IN it." When I realized that they were IN it, apparently so did everyone around me because we all burst into surprised, estatic applause! It seemed gloriously transgressive! Then breathtakingly courageous! I wondered how it was for these cops, openly showing their sexual orientation, at a time when it didn't seem like most other cops would approve.
Though they're less of a rarity now, I still think it's wonderful for LGBTQ police officers to proudly display BOTH of their affiliations.
17
This column is a good example of a serious problem on the political far left. I believe that police in uniform should be celebrated in these parades as an example of what they all should aspire to. There is nothing inherently wrong with being a police officer. Indeed, the good ones should be respected for doing a dangerous and difficult job.
17
Officers who believe in equal rights, protections, and freedoms need to be at Pride events and in uniform if they so choose.
The LBGTQ community wants and deserves equality and compassion, but if they are going to exclude and discriminate, it is going to be a tough row to hoe for overall acceptance and inclusion.
And I do get the anger and frustration with the police. My cousin was killed by a hit and run driver as he came out of a gay club. The police were not interested in investigating even though there were eyewitnesses, security video and a good description of the vehicle and driver. My family is still angry and heart broken that the police would not investigate because my cousin was Black and Gay.
5
In the 1970s I played basketball with some cops and some other people. Someone suggested we formalize these games as cops vs. the rest of us. Of course that would change everything. The suggestion was made in good faith. Still it felt as a an attempt at a certain type of pacification. I said no.
This is much more important than a pick up game. it is very clear to me why cops marching in uniform could be feel violating to a large number of people.
But I can also see why large number of people feel upset with this decision.
The tension between liberation and civil rights is a real one. The tensions play themsleves out all the time.
Obviously people march, demonstrate, celebrate, for many different reasons. A huge event like this with big ludicrous corporate presence and mainstream celebrities and politicians and columnists is next to impossible to pretend that it is something that it is not.
When I hear about lgbtq people in the military or in the police force struggling against multiple forms of bigotry that they confront daily, their stories and efforts are profound and powerful. Simultaneously when you think about an efficient US military you think of a murderous force trying to impose its brutal will around the world. And a major function of the police is to be the internal army of the state.
How to honor and support the struggle of those in the military and the police force while working against almost everything they are attempting to do is not easy.
3
Tell that to the Village People because I, for one, thinks it fun to stay at the YMCA.
5
I'm generally opposed to the argument in this article, but Ms. Gay makes some salient points. I'm astounded at the level of apathy people now show towards the struggle for full LGBT equality in this country. There is still so much work to be done, and full equality is far off. The rights we do have now are fragile, and increasingly so. and many LGBT people feel, quite rationally, that the police have historically been a hostile element in gay people's lives. The suffering inflicted on our community by police, historically, is enormous. Would it be really so difficult for them to march in civilian clothes like everyone else, with a flag proudly proclaiming their profession? I don't know the answer, yet, but it is not an offensive question to ask.
5
A question: why is a march centered on grievance and anger and fear one teeny bit better than a Trump rally?
9
The basic premise behind discriminating against other members of the community is appalling and blatantly false: "They are being asked to confront their complicity with an institution that does more harm than good to vulnerable communities." My decades-long experience of living on minority neighborhoods and a wealth of academic studies and recent evidence discussed in this paper contradicts this assertion. When police retreats, murder, robberies, and rapes increase. Policing needs reform, but distorting the truth and excluding members of the community based on a career choice are not the solution. Do you prefer that all LGBT police officers quit the force? How is that better?
16
I find the writer's attitude as galling as that of Chicago Mayor Lori Lightfoot, who said she'd only permit non-white people to interview her. I read "no whites allowed" as "no white allies allowed." It is self-defeating and hypocritical.
And now people who feel entitled to speak for all gay people by reflecting poorly on all gay people are saying "no police allies allowed" or even "no gay police in uniform" allowed.
Pardon my choice of words, but that is an abomination.
14
Lightfoot did that for ONE DAY, and said why: there were ZERO people of color in the press corps that covered her and Chicago government.
2
@Robert NYC's Pride parade is but one day too. It doesn't matter. We won't ever improve race relations this way. We won't ever improve attitudes about gay people this way. And we won't improve police this way either.
3
@Robert which day of the year should politicians exclude people of color from press interviews? Not a good look.
4
As terribly painful as history has proven to be for the LGBTQ community, both physically and psychologically, excluding gay cops from these parades is just a quick fix that further widens the gap between the two groups.
While I’ve no doubt that it feels good to have the power to exclude gay cops and put them in their place, it’s merely putting a bandaid over a gapping wound. Both sides must [somehow] find, if possible, a common ground tempered by a balance of emotions and rationality.
That said, considering the power cops have, whether gay or not, the ultimate responsibility lies on their shoulders to make the greater effort to bridge the ever widening gap between themselves and the LGBTQ community.
2
"What we need, what we’ve always wanted and deserved…a welcoming space where we can be safe and free." Do you not see the contradiction in wanting "a welcoming space" and deliberately excluding a group of people?
The gatekeeping that is happening with Pride celebrations is really disheartening.
12
LGBTQIA officers, as she said, are more than welcome to attend. Just simply leave your gun at home, and take off your uniform. We want to feel safe at pride, and most of our community does not feel safe around police- particularly after the Geroge Floyd protests. Nearly a year ago I stood in front of a police line on a bridge with thousands of other non violent protesters in my home city New Orleans who were unarmed and asking that officers disband their line and walk with us over the bridge. They responded by throwing tear gas canisters into the crowd, and shooting at us with rubber bullets.
Until police brutality is a thing of the past, and all the “good cops” stop standing by silently while their fellow officers kill and maim the innocent decide to speak up; just like the first pride, they will only be seen as an antagonistic force that breaks the peace.
2
Just read John Lelands piece concerning the infighting at Heritage Pride in NYC over the inclusion of police officers marching in the parade.
There seems to be a real disconnect between the board at Heritage Pride and the will of it's members. I won't go through all the machinations that have taken place, but several people have quit, some have quit and returned, several contentious meetings and lots of hard feelings.
The upshot is that a large percentage of their members want the police to be able to march. The board, which they describe as more diverse, has concerns they are trying to address concerning their experience with the police.
I've read all of the NYT Picks and many, many of the other comments on this opinion piece. The comments are amazingly supportive of the police. I didn't expect that. After the protests last summer I thought that there would be a continuation of putting minority concerns first. It seems that has been fine in many instances, but concerning Pride, at least in this newspaper, it's clear that people of all stripes don't necessarily want to dismiss the concerns the minority groups have about the police in general, but see LGBTQi cops as a special breed, a group that faces discrimination in their own ranks and also use their position to advance the concerns our people have.
The whole "confront their complicity" argument is nothing but a demand that they be shamed for the job they do. They are us. Let's stop shunning anyone...
17
You are doing the very thing your community has been subject to - marginalization, stereotyping, and just plain meanness.
Police officers have identity beyond the blue, but when advocates like you tell them the are not welcome when they want to express another identity, you marginalize them, in the exact same ways you say you were marginalized.
15
The author of this article explicitly said that LGBTQIA officers are welcome, they just need to leave their weapons and uniforms at home.
2
@ Joshua Marquis
Does Roxanne Gay have amnesia?
She carelessly fails to remember the exclusion of LGBTQ uniformed police officers who were shamefully barred for years from marching behind their own banner in New York’s annual St. Patrick’s Day Parade by the organizers, the Ancient Order of Hibernians.
Their reason: Openly gay cops at the Irish Day Parade may trigger pain and discomfort that offend Catholic religious sensibilities of the spectators.
Seems like ‘snowflake’ parade organizers - from bigoted conservatives to woke progressives - relish in advancing fragile victimhood instead of fighting for courage and inclusion.
8
Just as I’m glad that the racists and bigots don’t represent all police or get to define what is an overwhelmingly good thing, I’m glad that Roxane Gay doesn’t get to define the overwhelmingly inclusive spirit of Pride.
This “us vs them” mentality is toxic no matter who it comes from.
13
I agree with Jonathan Capeheart. When did marginalized peoples start demanding purity tests for inclusion in their causes? if someone supports your cause, who cares what they do for a living?
9
There is an element of "cancel culture" here, and just like "deplorables" (HRC's characterization of what turned out to be 40-48% of voters supporting Trump), it really DOES have the potential to put him or someone like him back in the White House.
Of course, Weinstein, Rose, Louis CK, etc. did unconscionable things. Individuals who they wronged may very well choose NEVER to forgive them.
But we as a society have mostly - AND PROPERLY - decided that blaming children for their parents' sins is a bridge too far.
For Ms. Gay to say, "SHUN THEM. 20-50 years ago, people wearing the same uniform hassled us, wished us dead, even" is precisely that. The "best part of BLM" - and the one that might make it something MORE than an echo of MLK's March on Washington was OVERWHELMING support from people Ms. Gay - by her logic - would exclude.
"You ... Caucasians, you whose 'privilege' depends on keeping us marginalized, YOU are NOT welcome to march at our side."
Think about it! The Pride march is not celebrating victimhood - it's about having gotten past that point. What better "visual" proof of same could there be than some police persons IN UNIFORM" marching with them?!
414
@Pluribus
'Pride' in Charlotte is itself racist- did most readers here know that Charlotte has TWO Prides- one for "caucasians" and another one called Charlotte Black Pride or that the prominent gay club in town recently held events in blackface?
There has been a large string of murders of Trans people in Charlotte and just days ago, the sexual assault (at the hands of a corrections officer) of a Trans person who was denied bail and held with male inmates.
Charlotte has refused to pass even a simple non-discrimination ordinance- while at the same time crowing about the hundreds of thousands of dollars that 'Pride" brings in. This despite the hateful HB2 being partially repealed and in the face of other NC towns passing NDO's.
More sadly, these Charlotte Pride events are accompanied by disturbed preachers screaming hateful religious rhetoric through *bullhorns* at the participants and local gay folks acquiescing to it as "part of the event" that they can do nothing about. Disdain for what the local LGBTs call "militant gays from somewhere else causing trouble" is rampant. It amounts to self-loathing and assimilationism with a vengeance.
"Cancel culture"? Like protest against Ellen Degeneres' sitcom? Like the Dixie Chicks? Like banning and then refusing to pass NDOs?
Your hypocrisy is showing. Just saying.
9
@Pluribus
Ms Gay is a separatist. And not being forthright about it.
But it is no one's parade. It is our parade. My parade, your parade. It belongs to you and me. Totally classic Americana imo. I refuse to think our model has bad outcomes. We are capable of surmounting civil rights issues some nations dread even ever having to face.
So I say, let's have a parade. I'll bring my step, you bring yours. And then a BBQ. That's crucial, I feel.
25
@Pluribus You seem unable to understand something that is quite simple. For many LGBT people who have been harassed or worse by uniformed cops, seeing uniformed cops makes them feel intensely uncomfortable. So they do not want to see such people at what is supposed to be a celebration of their identity. As far as I know there is nothing to stop LGBT people who are cops from joining the parade in civilian attire. The idea is that they should not show up attired in a manner that for many recalls a long and undeniable history of hatred and oppression. Seems simple enough to me.
20
Don't ask, don't tell?
8
"The first gay pride parade was held the following year in New York City."
We called the marches the Christopher Street Liberation Day Parade for many years---not "pride parade."
When I marched in NYC in 1976, we still called it that.
5
It’s weird to hear someone talking about acceptance not accepting others
11
Can you imagine the courage it takes for a gay police officer to march in uniform in front of his/her straight colleagues?
You should remember + honor your own courage.
If you vilify a whole group you do the same that was done to you.
We WANT the police to have gay role models among them!
18
This is the type of thing that elected Trump.
17
The simmering resentment expressed in this article is a disappointing demonstration of fairness rejected.
6
As a late-middle-aged/young senior straight White male, I'm not sure if I have a valid perspective. I grew up in the time when it was "OK" to demean and discriminate against LGBTQ people, for which I am deeply ashamed. I didn't hate or fear Gay people, but I admit to being disparaging. For which I humbly apologize.
I had to come to terms with the truth that I have ZERO right to judge. even in my heart and private thoughts, what happily consenting adults agree to. And with it comes an obligation to support full equal rights and treatment under the law. (as a note queer teens should have the same treatment, rights, and support as straight teens)
So I am dismayed that Pride groups don't want "kinky queers" to march, because unless "kink" violates the rule of happy consent, it violates the whole idea of equality.
As for police joining in, in uniform, as either openly LGBTQ, or in support, I am disturbed, too, by resentment of that. Yet I am forced to consider the theoretical extreme:
Suppose someone, not a cop, is marching in support yet openly displaying White supremacy signs--the runes, slogans (like "14", "18", "88") the hand signs, or even swastikas. Frankly, I would think that the Pride movement would be justified in excluding them. I know it sounds hypocritical, but I believe there are lines that should not be crossed.
All in all, I wish you well, a HUGE turnout, safe social distancing and the hope for continual progress toward full equality.
2
"This false equivalence defies credulity. We are not turning on anyone. Law enforcement is not an innate identity. The police are not marginalized."
-------
I've dealt with lots of police and yes law enforcement IS an identity. They hail from the same contingent of blue collar athletic men who also go into the military, and who do not go to college and pursue expensive degrees. Many are gay but "st8 acting" masculine.
The scapegoating of police by a contingent of effete liberals who all DID go to college and were intellectual and not athletic is ironic. And it IS because of their identities in an indirect way. (Yeah I know you can't prove it. Liberals are slippery, that way.)
The problem in my mind is, I know police do bad things. I also know that hordes of other professionals who deal with minority communities also do terrible things too. And liberals turn a blind eye to them, because they ARE the liberals. They ARE the Democratic Base. They do even worse things than police do because they are given more license from liberals, and can get away with more, under the cover of darkness.
Identity is very much intertwined with this political issue re: police misconduct. Not that it isn't a problem, the corruption, but liberals are scapegoating them and singling them out solely because of who they are far more than what they do.
You're never going to end racial injustice if you do that.
Never ever ever.
You're only trying to perpetuate it when you get divisive like that.
6
Shame on you. Just as the AOH prohibited gay Irish from marching, the unelected insiders who run the corporate parade that used to be a gay pride march have decided -- for the entire gay community -- that LGTB police officers and GOAL, people who fought for equality along side us, are prohibited from demonstrating their pride and support. I urge the LEO to ignore this autocratic regressive DISCRIMINATION against LGTB people and bring back the original spirit of protest that was the gay pride march. There is NO rationalization that can support this odious policy taken with absolutely no input from the wide LGBT community. Now the finger-pointers at St. Pat's cathedral must be turned toward the excluders. Shame! Shame! Shame!
7
LBGTQ people stereotyping and excluding an entire group of people.
Great idea
10
I think it is more accurate to say "Pride has changed", rather than "Pride has evolved".
In the last 40 or so years many have been welcomed in.... but even more have been excluded.
I'm not sure, today, where Pride is heading nor who it wants along. It seems that anatomical women and the old, the un-hip and the uncool.... like cops, who were once hardcore supporters when human rights was the focus, those are not needed so much anymore.
"Evolved"? or merely "Changed"?
Don't follow the RepubliQANONs into oblivion......
3
Dear Ms. Gay:
We agree, ban the police!
Keep up the good work.
Yours truly,
The Republican Party.
12
Heritage of Pride's (HOP) decision to exclude members of GOAL (LGBTQ) officers from participating in the parade is a huge mistake. While I get the move in theory, on the ground it is exclusionary and mean spirited. Keep in mind too, that HOP membership voted as recently as last week to allow GOAL to participate, yet, they were over-ruled by the HOP executive board. So, the ban remains. It's especially sad when one remembers how in 1996, GOAL sued the NYPD for discrimination. GOAL had wanted to march in the annual NYC Pride March in uniform and with the official police marching band — a request that had been rejected by NYPD in previous years. Just in time for the parade, GOAL won concessions from the NYPD and was allowed to march in uniform, and use the marching band.
7
She gets it all wrong.
9
When you exclude others you become no better than those who want to exclude you. A very shameful day for Pride.
8
as a gay guy I do not support Roxanne Gays' stance at all. as with every group there is good cops and bad cops, good gay cops and bad gay cops. Gay Pride is a celebration of an identity, and identities go beyond the borders of institutions. Making a blanket statement about one particular institution (with whom we do have bad history) and banning it entirely is against MY concept of pride. It sends the horrible message that we identify people with institutions, and it amounts to say that a gay cop cannot be proud to be a cop and gay at the same time. so what is next? What are we telling Jewish people who chose to live in Germany? they can't be proud to be german and Jewish at the same time?
3
I hope the author and others pushing for the exclusion of police from pride parades also aggressively exclude all pastors, reverends, ministers, priests, and any and all organized groups affiliated with organized Abrahamic religions.
The church/mosque/synagogue have suppressed the LGTB community throughout history far more than police have. And continue to do so.
Likewise, most US politicians prior to public opinion turning after 2010 or so did not support marriage equality. Like the police they should be made unwelcome in pride events. This would include both Clintons, all the Bushes, and Obama.
Or does not welcoming police have nothing at all to do with Stonewall or other sins against the LGTB community past, present, or future?
While the queer community may be "sprawling" or "unruly", welcoming and supporting good police officers and good police organizations is clearly stepping too far outside the current liberal groupthink for some.
But hey, when Al Sharpton, Hilary Clinton, and Michael Bloomberg want to march - Welcome friends!
6
The inevitable outcome of identity politics: eating your own.
12
I thought the police were present to protect us from Republicans?
1
Trans former district attorney here. I probably have more personal experience, both good and bad, with law enforcement than most folks. I also contribute time and money to the LGBTQIA+ community.
"The Police" does not exist, except in 80's rock playlists. Departments are comprised of many individuals, with almost as much variety as society itself. Please don't make this about "The Queers" vs. "The Police."
This piece, while perhaps well intentioned, embarrasses me. We all know the past; obviously some of it is shameful. Still, I prefer to work toward a future without divisive generalizations.
18
"They aren’t actually being rejected; they are being asked to respect boundaries"? By that logic, maybe Roxane should have immigrants wait in Mexico while she instructs them that they must henceforth identify themselves as "Latinx"!
As a lifelong activist, I've struggled to advance the proposition that there's nothing "queer" about same-sex attraction. Perhaps I'm in need of some indoctrination, too?
3
I read this thinking there must be something I don't get about police participation in Pride, and why it is wrong to allow them to participate in uniform. but, nope. The logic of this article is completely missing.
Queer is queer. cop is cop and ne'er the twain shall meet. And that is a good thing. If being one impacts being the other then that's the first step to an elite exclusivity in which one must reject the other in order to be fulfilled. To follow this logic is to meet QAnon where it lives--in bias and rejection.
It's a terrible idea to tell young queer people that certain jobs will forever be a stain on you if you take them. It is even worse to set up a world where queer people can, in the future, never hope to find one of their own in the ranks of those sworn to protect and serve them.
Pride is and should be a messy, frolicky time where fulfilled and complete expression of your outward self is expressed on your own terms. There is no group-think possible. Cops, bikers, gymnasts, singers, clerks, you name it, and you be it-- while being who you are. Anyone who wants to take that away because of their personal view of what makes them comfortable when thinking about the oppressive past, has lost track of how we got here and where we could be going.
7
Inclusion is the only way forward. How can you not see your own hypocrisy? You expect institutional change without actually wanting institutions to publicly show it? SMH.
6
Teachers in the past used to teach that homosexuality was immoral (and sadly, some probably still do today). They should not be allowed to march, even if they never taught any such material themselves, or are themselves gay.
Many politicians signed homophobic legislation. No politicians should march, even if they never signed any laws like that, or are themselves gay.
California and Colorado voters passed homophobic resolutions in the nineties and the aughts. Nobody from those two states should be allowed to march....
The mainstreaming of gay culture is a triumph. Sexual minorities could face criminal punishment not so long ago. Now it’s so widely accepted Chase Bank wants in on the action. An openly gay man credibly ran for president. This is a good thing, not a bad thing.
There’s something ironic about fighting change at a Pride parade, when it was born out of a demand for change. This battle has been won. Onward!
3
Let's talk about the cops.
1. We absolutely need police reform. Like most Americans, I am sick and tired of cops killing unarmed people. Mostly Black people. And targettng some people with harrassment and violence as well.
- And yes, some cops do this to other communities. Such as the LGBTQ+ community and the Latino community.
2. We need the police as an institution, to protect and serve. All of us need them. The majority of cops have chosen a difficult and thankless job in order to do this. And these good cops are part of our community, and they contribute to its success.
3. We should welcome the cops at Pride -- and in every other event and organization that represents our communities.
4. We could absolutely use social workers and psychologists to help some citizens who are causing problems in society. The cops can't do it alone, and many cops would welcome this support, especially for people with mental illnesses or drug adictions.
- But "defund the police" was the stupidest phrase ever uttered by any politician. And whoever came up with that should be fired for political malpractice, and never work in public policy again.
10
All these people who hate the police couldn't last a day without them.
5
I'm 72. I slept through Stonewall. Gawd, I was closeted in Maine and didn't know what New York City was. I moved there in 1975. I am not a cop fan. I believe they have lots of problems in their midst which are too frequently ignored. I applaud any officer, LGBTQ or Straight who is willing to join Gay Pride events. To the author Roxane Gay I paraphrase the homophobe Ronald Reagan, "Roxy, tear down that wall!!"
10
They walk among us...cops with a secret...the profession that dare not speak its name...hiding in plain sight...
3
I was left heartbroken by Roxanne Gay’s opinion that “Cops Don’t Belong at Pride.” Queer law enforcement professionals undoubtedly deserve representation at the table. We work tirelessly in a thankless profession where we are underrepresented and often ostracized by our peers. We are hated by the communities we serve based on a uniform alone and now the one community and opportunity to feel welcomed during what has become a celebratory month, we are denied yet again. Gay stated “The police are not marginalized. They aren’t disowned by their families for carrying a gun and a badge. They haven’t been brutalized or arrested because of how they make a living.” It is clear that Gay has never had an earnest conversation with a cop. Gay cops experience all of these things, at home, at work, and now from the one community that used to make us feel welcomed and safe. The LGBTQ community is about not making flash judgements, about hearing the voices of the oppressed, and welcoming everyone. Last time I checked my rainbow flag that I hang with pride included a slender blue line.
502
um... Pride Parades began as a public demonstration for equal rights. They have morphed into a celebration of big bucks corporate floats and politicians' perches on the backs of convertibles.
Until we figure out what the parade stands for, the Pride Parade -- or the Reclaim Pride Coalition -- can't frame the issue fairly.
Pride is essentially a civil rights demonstration. Uniformed police are not permitted to join demonstrations. It's as simple as that.
1
What is most shocking to me about blocking LGBTQ officers from marching in uniform is that it is saying to the rest of the LGBTQ community that you can't be openly gay while serving as an officer in uniform and that the police will never be a positive force for the LGBTQ community.
This is contrary to everything we should be doing to bring the police to our side.
15
This is "separate but equal" discrimination. Have uniformed cops stand proudly with Pride sends an indelible highly visible message of hope and good will. I am not gay, but I march in gay parades with my son (who also isn't gay) and my daughter who is a lesbian. Some minds never get changed, but some minds are changed when they see a good example of reality in action.
7
“And they aren’t actually being rejected; they are being asked to respect boundaries. L.G.B.T.Q. officers are more than welcome to join Pride celebrations — unarmed and in civilian clothing. They are being asked to confront their complicity with an institution that does more harm than good to vulnerable communities.”
4
And given the carbon output of America, and the way we’ve been so stingy with vaccine, and the Iraq disaster, and our spillages of pil and methane, are all participants being asked to, “confront their complicity,” with any of that?
2
Seems to me that these cops are being very brave to be participating and to be living examples of pride and determination to transform and improve policing for all... perhaps they should be lauded for showing up in uniform.
13
Let us have a broader perspective here. What did the wide LGBTQ+ community think of the police presence during Pride events in the days and weeks after the horrific events at the Pulse nightclub in Orlando FL? Also, have the police only been tasked with providing auto & pedestrian traffic-control during Pride parades? (I suspect the police in the past have provided a wide swath of protections during Pride parades, including physically protecting parade participants from those that want to cause violent harm to them).
6
I only have one cause: that the world be a safe space for all of us. Pride used to be beautifully aligned with that cause. I loved cheering on the courageous and open-hearted marchers, while standing shoulder-to-shoulder with the ever-growing population of allies they inspired. That’s in the past for a while, along with the dream of inclusive social solidarity that the police, our democracy’s servants, be obligated to espouse and protect. It will be Roxane and Debbie’s Pride now, partisan and exclusive, but it won’t be safe.
7
This seems so wrong in so many ways. Please stop. Be better than you are. Look in the mirror each day and say, "what can I do to make my world a better place today?" You are a human being, as are we all, we imperfect ones, who fail each day, but also who may succeed at doing something positive. I feel your pain. I respect you. I would greatly miss seeing the cops (all genders), fire fighters (all genders), first responders (all genders) and other groups in their uniforms representing our city's belated, slow, imperfect and incomplete recognition of our diversity. Devolving into more tribalism and rejection is not the path to a future that includes all of us.
16
When I went on the police department in 1982. I had to take a polygraph. The department was concerned about drug use and undiscovered felonies but they were absolutely paranoid about gays and gay sex. I was/ am a straight, sober male so none of it made a difference to me. Over the years I came to know really good cops and agents who were gay but lived in constant fear of discovery. And for what? So everyone else can feel superior? What a waste. Now that they can come out and work without such fear and discrimination the PRIDE people don’t want them. Seems like more self superiority. Another opportunity missed.
20
On the one hand, I couldn't disagree more. As a gay man who is old enough to actually remember many of the event the author touches upon, the inclusion of uniformed LGBT police officers is powerful symbol of change, of progress, of evolution. I think it is extremely wrongheaded and small minded to exclude them from our celebration. As part of our family.
On the other, I agree Pride has long been far too attached to corporate sponsorship. The earliest parades and celebrations I can remember were organic events that sprung from the community. Now, far too often, they feel like one long commercial for big business. Perhaps if this author and others like her focused so vehemently on Absolut or Coors
I could take their moral outrage a little more seriously.
Deeply disappointed by the decision to exclude LGBT police organizations from Pride.
21
Nothing like watching a group that has been screaming to be accepted as they are start excluding people for not conforming.
I wonder if the geniuses running this little shindig thought through how hypocritical and downright biased this move would look.
"We accept you as you are unless we don't accept who you are" isn't a very attractive marketing message.
18
Is the message then for gay cops to head back to the closet?
I feel like this whole episode is a case of life imitating a Titania McGrath tweet about the Village People booting the cop over the optics.
11
Roxane Gay's blatantly discriminatory attitude against LGBTQ police does not belong at Pride.
Those LGBTQ officers who proudly march in uniform -- in spite of the obvious risk that it poses to themselves from peers -- are doing far more to reform police culture and promote acceptance than she is.
I suggest that Ms Gay PERSONALLY talk to every LGBTQ officer that she is attempting to exclude, and see how they feel about being told that they should yet again hide a major part of their identity so that she can feel "comfortable".
22
Glad to finally have a perspective in a mainstream media outlet that doesn't blindly trust and puff up the police (including that terrible NYT editorial board piece), but sad to see how much ignorant copaganda there is in the comments. It's like they didn't read the article. I don't know how many police murders, how many decades of violence and abuse, how many statistics showing apathy and outright aggression need to be cited before the law-and-order crowd actually internalize the message: The police do not protect marginalized communities. Yes, there are queer cops. Yes, there are black cops. Whatever you do for your day job, you can show up to pride. But just because anyone is welcome at pride doesn't mean the gay community has to positively endorse the police by allowing them to march in the parade. It doesn't do us any good to rainbow-wash an overfunded, racist, highly armed military force (which, let's not forget, endorsed Donald Trump in 2020, in direct opposition to the will of people they supposedly protect).
8
Police are no more immutable than any other institution. To treat it as such and demonize a group through exclusion only reinforces a distance that needs to be closed. It’s not about “forgiving”. It’s about judging people and institutions for what they are at this moment. I find today’s angry tribalism which allows groups to openly overgeneralize (White people believe XYZ, Asians are ABC, Black males are DEF) results in increasing division
10
It's been the case in Toronto for some years, effect has been to narrow the formerly huge public support at the Parades and events, as well as send the organizers into escalating competitions in what the youngsters are calling "woke". On the logic of historical grievance, who knows how many badly treated identity groups really oughtn't show at your Independence Day celebrations?
4
The hypocrisy here is stunning.
21
"This kind of respectability politics is nothing new. There have always been calls for the L.G.B.T.Q. community to neuter the sex from our sexuality, to temper our flamboyance, to bend to heterosexual norms. Let’s be clear: We should not have to contort ourselves to make straight people more comfortable with our lives. Assimilation cannot be the price we must pay for freedom."
------
Yes, the corporatizing of Pride does mean the exclusion of the VERY flamboyant of gay men. Well, no it doesn't. They display the very flamboyant types in the parades and publicly. But as followers. Important figureheads in the gay movement and media, if they are men, normally sound "a little bit gay" but not overly flamboyantly gay.
However, the straight world views femininity as non-threatening while masculinity is now hyped as "the problem" among left wing elite circles. Thus, the very masculine gay men are completely excluded from Pride and from the whole entire gay movement.
Even though they actually exist and quite possibly in larger numbers than gender non-conforming gays.
Here is where the bankrolling of the gay movement and control by Big Pharma plays a huge role in the matter. I don't think the mainstream gay movement is really representative of gays that much. I think they are excessively controlled or influenced by the healthcare lobby and by Big Pharma, and these special interests choose which gays they want to fund and advance the careers of, as "Key Opinion Leaders."
2
If Roxane had her way, one of the Village People would not be able to march in the parade. Think about that. I guess it's no longer fun to stay at the YMCA.
16
Yeah, real shame they’re not an open-minded, welcoming event with room for all, like CPAC or a Trump rally.
2
“What we need, what we’ve always wanted and deserved, is what Debbie and I found when we first marched at Pride: a welcoming space where we can be safe and free.”
I am a 66 year old gay man who marched in his first NYC gay pride parade in 1978. i too decry the commercialization of the parade. But for the life of me i do not understand how the presence of GAY officers in their uniforms makes the parade as you say above any less “welcoming ... safe and free”. Prejudice is not fought with prejudice. None of the gay cops who want to march in uniform murdered George Floyd, may he rest in peace. Taking away the rights of gay officers to wear their uniforms — a right they have had for many years— is ill-considered. Do i think there is terrible systemic racism and homophobia in police forces throughout the country. I MOST CERTAINLY DO. But demonizing a uniform and disempowering other gay people from expressing pride in what they have chosen to do with their lives is cancel culture once again run amok.
Shame.
19
This columnist is 100% ABSOLUTELY WRONG. As a gay man in his 50s who's from New York, I remember the days when cops were forbidden to march at PRIDE. AND THEN, I remember the first year that gay cops WERE allowed to march in their uniforms and everyone cheered with joy at the "breakthrough", which was real. NOW we have a select group of crazy "woke" gays trying to EXCLUDE another group of gays from marching as they want. It's 100% the same as denying gays the right to march for St. Patrick's Day. EXACTLY THE SAME. You and your ill-advised ilk are attempting to deny to other gays the right to march in their uniforms as members of the GAY COMMUNITY which should have NO exclusions whatsoever. That includes the Log Cabin Gay Republicans, whom I personally abhor. They are, NEVERTHELESS, ALL GAY. How dare anyone exclude another group of gay people from marching in this UNIVERSAL event, it makes my blood boil with indignation. NO GAY PERSON should 1) be told how to dress! and 2) ever be excluded from an event celebrating GAY PRIDE. The fact that other gays are presuming to decide which other gays can and cannot take part in a GAY PRIDE event, totally repulses me.
23
You got this backwards: Its not cops infiltrating gay organization, its gay people infiltrating the police. That should be seen as a good thing, no? Why do you expect insulting all police is a solid strategy to get treated better by the few bad ones? You even lose the casual observers to your cause.
14
Actually Roxane Gay is completely wrong on this. It is important that present day institutions of "The State" declare that they NOW stand for protecting ALL the people who were victimized and brutalized by state in the past. The visual impact of NYC police uniforms at PRIDE parades sends a powerful message to the ignorant, intolerant, and hateful in our society, that the institutions of government serve us all.
7
Well-stated and perfectly correct! Thank you, Roxane Gay!
8
Exactly how many years does it take to go from pariah to acceptance? In St. Pete, the cops are welcome. Is it just Southern hospitality or knowledge that it's time to move on?
7
We're not discriminating against our queer sisters, brothers, and others who have chosen to wear a uniform be it police or military. They are more than welcome to march with and join the festivities as these are their festivities and we're their community. But please, join only if you're off-duty and not in uniform (unless, of course, you're connected to the Village People).
5
@PHornbein, PhD Gays are welcome to march in the St. Patrick's parade.
Just not under a banner identifying them as gay.
Brilliant.
The oppressed become the oppressors.
3
Most of the dissenting opinions sound like they just don't understand that police aren't being excluded. Just the rotten to the core, hate-filled, violence-loving uniform.
7
Oh. It’s the UNIFORM that does the bad stuff, like that one Spiderman movie.
5
Just like how white skin makes you automatically complicit in Racism! Inc.
It’s pretty simple- reductive racialized gerrymandering of our citizenry.
1
So much for the party of tolerance.
10
This would be a terrific argument ... if it were 1970.
We absolutely DO need protection at Pride - protection from those in our fold that get out of control from drugs and alcohol, and protection from the good "Christians" that arrive each year to remind us that they hate us more than Satan. It is moronic to refuse to acknowledge that we live in a time of domestic terrorism. To wish away that threat is to invite it. Worst of all is that we are rejecting those in our own community, which is unforgivable. It is just as unforgivable to reject a gay police officer as it is a black trans woman? We are either a rainbow of acceptance or we are not. This argument is based upon the assumption that all cops are bad and there has been no change since 1969. The West Hollywood PD has been a model of dignity and acceptance at LA Pride and I have never once seen or heard of a single inappropriate incident by them in my decades of LA Pride. I have always made it a point to thank them during Pride and I will do so again this year.
Get off your soapbox. The world is changing. Either we learn to forgive and learn the lessons of the past, or we will simply be mired in the misery of applying the same tactics of discrimination that have been applied to us for so long.
11
So what about all he gay police men and women.They have no place in the parade? How sad. So it is not bad enough that they have potentially been discriminated in their professional and personal lives now their very own communities is doing it as well. Simply because they choose to devote their lives protecting others. How shocking!
6
It is doubtful that many, if any, NY or other gay cops would have the courage to march in your Gay Pride event. However, you are ever so foolish to keep any with that courage from displaying it on your and their behalf. Such denial is both dysfunctional to the integration of gays into main stream society and to the equal treatment of them by main stream, uniformed police.
6
I agree the cops should not be marching.
5
As of this writing. literally every single "Reader Picks" comment I have read takes exception to the columnist's viewpoint. I hope Ms. Gay reads these comments with an open mind and takes them to heart.
5
So they can participate if they “neuter” their identity and remove their uniforms, assimilating to make you more comfortable? In other words, officers can come but must stay in the closet. Disturbing and disheartening. Police are more than the flaws of their system and the failures of their peers. Shame on you, Ms. Gay.
12
The only Parade I celebrate and attend to is the Halloween one Period
4
I’m personally not a fan of the police and trust most cops as far as I can throw them. But the author’s ridiculous take is ammo for the far right.
6
I love this idea. I'm sure it will work out great just like how BLM kicked out the police at the "autonomous zone" in Seattle.
BTW, how's that zone doing now?
6
How wonderful to read that nearly universally the commenters disagree with Gay.
9
Let’s not include gay doctors, bus drivers, lawyers and all other professions that may have discriminated against LGBTQ in the past. Surely that will solve the problems of our movement for inclusiveness.
10
Roxanne is right. No hiding behind the badge at Pride.
5
@Nancy Keefe Rhodes Someone who proudly displays their badge isn't hiding.
Is this the kind of logic that is ruling this decision?
3
Why would you deny yourself the opportunity to have police officers marching at your side, demonstrating not only their support but also the fact that LGBTQ individuals are to be found in all walks of life? Excluding them seems a great opportunity to exhibit the kind of stereotyping and prejudice you’re trying to fight.
Extremely short sighted and reactionary.
11
On September 11, 2001, police offices and fire fighters entered the Twin Towers in an attempt to save lives. They were among the many casualties that occurred when the buildings collapsed.
Roxanne Gay refers to the Stonewall riots of 1969 in her argument against allowing uniformed police officers to march in the Gay Pride Parade. There were no casualties at that time. The police did not use their guns.
6
You are naive to think you will ever be safer without police presence.
If you don't want to follow the permitting/security laws put in place for EVERY parade, don't have it.
I fully believe in holding cops accountable for misconduct and I fully believe in respecting the outrageously difficult and dangerous job they perform.
5
It’s a shame the Pride Month celebration has been high-jacked by an angry group looking to maximize their political statement. Create your own group.
7
@Terry: Angry LGBTQ people sparked the Stonewall Rebellion and started commemorating that with the Christopher St. Gay Liberation March a year later. Those of us angry at Heritage of Pride for its corporate domination and inclusion of armed cops started Reclaim Pride and our own march free of that in 2019, continuing this June 27 with the third Queer Liberation March. If HOP maintains its policy of no cops in uniform next year, it would be up to all the "angry" commentators on this thread to organize one that includes them. As a veteran of the Christopher St. Liberation Day Committee in the mid-1970s and Reclaim Pride now, let me just advise you that organizing is a lot harder work that criticizing. But you are free to do so.
2
How about LGBTQ police officers?
3
The better question might seem: How does/might the gay community help gay cops stand against bigotry within the police force.
3
@BostonNeil
Times have changed. Look at the command staff of Chicago police. Black, brown, Asian, female, LGB, (maybe some trans, I’m not sure). People who assume that all police are white cis male are so uninformed. Where do they get such outdated information? Or maybe they just want to keep believing what they believe, regardless of reality.
1
Oh my.
This is the sort of tone-deaf, exclusionary, dripping with hypocrisy sort of rhetoric that actively costs democrats voters - which I find quite frustrating.
"This false equivalence defies credulity. We are not turning on anyone. Law enforcement is not an innate identity. The police are not marginalized. They aren’t disowned by their families..."
Claiming an equivalency is false doesn't make it so. What you're proposing is exclusionary. It's not complicated!
This obsession with what identity is "innate" or "authentic" actively divides people. Respectfully, along your own lines of thought - you have no right to claim what the experience of a cop is, or isn't. The idea that you can make statements that automatically assume police officers suffer no negative consequences is patently absurd. The idea that somehow Pride is special enough not to warrant police like any other raucous parade is absurd.
I thought assimilation WAS the goal. That isn't a limit on freedom - at least not anymore than what everyone else has. That is equality. If you want something beyond that, which is actually special treatment, then call it that. But if we are to be an equal society, special treatment shouldn't have a place. I don't neglect the horrible history you rightfully point out, but at the same time, I think the vision of what achieving the ideals of equality looks like must be more mundane - otherwise, I fear (more than usual) it won't happen.
8
Look at all these cis yt men explaining why cops indeed belong at Pride, confidently demonstrating that they did not, in fact, read the essay.
8
Tribal Identity is eroding civility.
5
It is telling that NY PRIDE organizers must deal with forces seeking to exclude both kink and uniformed cops from the annual parade. Enforcing rules and boundaries has perhaps become the fetish that we all share, queer and straight, in this current political moment. I hope PRIDE fully embraces its kink but excludes no one. The politics of exclusion belong to the right—let’s not model the new left after that way of thinking. If anyone wants to queer the police presence, I’m sure the kink folks can come up with some outfits that will make the point much better, and more ethically, than outright exclusion.
3
"The way you look makes ME uncomfortable, so YOU can't join" is pretty much he definition of prejudice. I've known gay cops. Anyone can do any job and be gay or straight as they chose.
8
I am less bothered by the presence of GOAL members in the pride parade than by the many corporate floats, which interestingly feature cute young dancers. When did a bank or an airline or a phone company ever face discrimination or hostility for being gay?
3
The author's premise is absurd. It is like saying that no white people are allowed to march in civil rights parade.
8
Kicking the LGBT cops out of the parade but welcoming Wells Fargo and the other major banks is a reflection of something gone seriously wrong with the movement. Why stop with the cops? Our medical system has abused LGBT people from the beginning. Let's kick out the doctors too! And don't even get me STARTED on the churches we allow in the parade. Out they go!
5
Gay police women and men in their uniforms will create an unwelcoming space where gay people cannot be safe and free?
How about a compromise of letting them wear their uniforms wearing LGTBQ armbands while mixing in?
Are you being representative of the Cancel Culture that is highlighted in American media? Snowflake over sensitivities?
Not that this is wholly equivalent, but my uncle, in 1949, wore his WWII Army uniform along with many other WWII veterans marching during the “Peekskill Riots”. Nor is it wholly equivalent for uniformed Black police to be marching in Black Pride parades?
Gay marriage became acceptable and legal when people realized that gay people were everywhere including in their families.
When will gay people in police uniforms become acceptable to both gay and straight people?
Is it progress to have it publicly acknowledged that there are gay police?
What will you do to gay police in uniforms when they appear in Gay Pride marches? Boo? Throw paint? Pepper spray? Carry signs denouncing their appearance? Look askance?
2
Lesbian lawyer, here. The oppressed have become the oppressors. I’ve marched in Pride parades since the early 80’s. I’m offended.
8
The article noted that some NYPD cops have been marching in the parade, in uniform, for twenty-five years.
Suddenly, they’re not welcome?
9
Our LGBTQ+ siblings and niblings who are police officers want to be included in our Pride Day parades while wearing their uniforms.
Good for them.
It shows the world that indeed, we are everywhere and that police departments are not some sort of monolith seething with hatred for us.
To effect change, embrace and persuade. Don't exclude and vilify.
Some of us queer folks seem determined to cut off our noses to spite our faces.
Would you stop?
5
"Some people, for example, want to exclude the kink community."
"kink community "?
1
Wow, that was convincing. Nice job.
2
All occupations are filled with flawed humans. All humans are flawed.
We need to strive for compassion.
Any anxious thinking beyond this is another example of our flaws as humans.
2
Well, now, then, there ... it appears the argument is that only those who are still oppressed should be allowed to march. In that case, anybody who’s actually successful should step off. That is, if you’re a gay white male from Wall Street step off. Famous Black Lesbian making millions, step off. Happy lesbian parents in a supportive community, step off. Indeed, let’s have two Prides. Happy Pride and Angry Pride. I think it’s a fantastic idea to have Angry Pride be only for the revolutionary who hasn’t yet succeeded. No allies need apply either.
3
The author is wrong. The world is not a welcoming space, neither safe, nor free.
3
I don’t agree with you on everything but to this point I say Amen !
1
I take issue with so many of your assumptions.
Police aren’t marginalized? What else do you call it when you explicitly disinvite them from an event they’ve been welcome to for years?
Kinky folks aren’t welcome because they make straight people uncomfortable? How about because families of all backgrounds don’t want their six-year-olds exposed to a lude and graphic lifestyle?
I wish the writers in this paper were more concerned with easing the friction in our society rather than adding to it. There’s no past sin that can’t be equipped to fracture our country into more and more outgroups.
Let the cops back in and try and talk to one another, rather than slamming the door in their faces and calling it “progress”
3
When, where, who and why were you appointed the God Queen of the American LGTBQ Pride Parade Community Movement?
Coming out or not as LGBTQ is a privileged and powerful choice that is not shared by those who are born Black African American or brown Indigenous American.
LGBTQ cops are one ultimate representative diverse choice.
4
This is your opinion and you are entitled to it. And I respect it. But really, who are you to represent the voice of the LGBT community on this issue and claim that the police doesn’t belong to pride parades? I’m gay. I have gay friends who served in the military or work in the police and are better human beings than food companies’ CEOs that are killing people with their food products. Check YouTube: “love parade, Berlin, 1990.” Police officers, people from
the east and the west, all dancing together. You want to heal the country? You want to unite people? Invite them to dance together. Your position reminds me of those who didn’t want to invite me and my boyfriend to their events because we were gay. Cruel and arrogant. America’s ideals are better than this.
7
Any unarmed person is welcome in MY pride parade.
5
I am seriously gobsmacked by the degree of pushback on this article. Police still have a very recent history of intimidating and harming people in the LGBTQ community. Many queer people don’t feel safe or comfortable around them.
Why is it such a stretch to ask them to take off their uniforms and march as civilians? What other profession insists on invading a space to prioritize their problematic profession above the identity that unites them with other people?
Going in civilian clothing would show a degree of respect and maybe an acknowledgement for the harm they have caused in the past — and continue to propagate especially against people in the trans community. I think you’re spot on, Roxane.
169
@Kristin H I'm gobsmacked that so called progressives who decry discrimination against people based on their past group, rather than their current individual actions.
In the past, there were plenty of politicians who wrote the laws that discriminated against gay men and women. Why are modern politicians given a pass if modern police are not?
Politics? Certainly not principle.
73
@Kristin H
I've been attending gay pride parades for over 40 years and one of the most thrilling aspects for me at every stage of my life is to see men and women proudly marching in their police uniforms demonstrating that we can fix the police force from within by inclusion of our own community.
What Roxane Gay is effectively saying is that the police should always be treated as the enemy and not here to serve us but to fight us. That is delusional on so many levels I dont even know where to begin to pointing out how wrong it is
101
@Kristin H
"I am seriously gobsmacked by the degree of pushback on this article."
Not everyone agrees with you and Ms Gay. or me or anyone else. And the people who don't agree with you on this topic are not conservative or even centrist by any reasonable convention.
Welcome to the wider world of human beings.
None of this would surprise anyone who's been involved in activism in the LGB communities over the past few decades: there is NO orthodoxy of belief uniting us into a single community, nor has there ever been. Activism of all types has always tended to be fissiparous. Because humans. The desire to go that Nth Degree More will produce more of that dynamic.
37
“ They (LGBTQ police officers) are being asked to confront their complicity with an institution that does more harm than good to vulnerable communities. ”
I’m not aware that urban policing agencies in any North American jurisdiction are currently doing harm to vulnerable communities.
It’s obviously true of the past, though, for sure. I’m not a member of the LGBTQ community, but I’m old enough to have witnessed it myself, though I wasn’t the target of police harassment.
2
Why should we turn our backs on LGBT2Q allied Police officers? We should be welcoming them at parades. A cop today is not the same as 1969, nor should they be compared to the fanatics during the Salem witch trials. Move forward, don’t be stuck forever in the past.
In Canada we are making the same mistakes. Is it not wrong to exclude, especially when so many have been extending olive branches for years?
7
I haven't participated in the pride parade for 20 years. Corporate sponsorship and an outsized spectator mob looking for a party drove me away. Last year's Reclaim Pride March had the spirit meaning of what the pride march is all about.
4
It’s not my parade but to an outsider this looks foolish and short sided. Even in 2021 coming out as gay when employed as a NYC policeman or policewoman can’t be easy. These folks need the support of gay leadership, not scorn and shunning.
8
Unite don't divide. Include don't expel Ms. Gay.
You have not learned from history.
Period.
8
LGBTQ people don't want police security at their parades? How naive........surely they know the extent of hatred toward them over the past millennia!
Or have Americans become so civilized and loving toward peoples of every culture, color, creed, and gender identity that we humans no longer need protection from our neighbors?
Additionally, why not have everyone in the parade wear some type of "uniform" to identify occupations: police, physician, painter/carpenter, nurse, grocery clerk, bank teller, priest, bus driver, etc..........all wearing their work uniforms.......
1
Totally disagree. You cannot lump people into categories and it is doing exactly that to say you LGBTQI brothers and sisters who are cops are like “all cops” or somehow symbolize one thing, just as you know that every person is unique. Stereo typing is bigoting, there is absolutely no way around that fact.
8
The sentence, "They are being asked to confront their complicity with an institution that does more harm than good to vulnerable communities" more or less exposes the lack of rigor in the arguments put forth in this Opinion.
Who is asking for this mea culpa? Some seem to be, but this declarative sentence seems to imply that some grand majority has come to the conclusion that these police should be judged by any bad thing that has happened for, ...how many years, decades, etc,? Yes, the police have victimized us with the permission and in most cases demands that states and cities and towns have placed on them. I remember the days in NYC when the police were not so friendly and we cheered the handful of queer cops that dared to march with us in the gay pride parade. The cops who want to march this year are also taking a risk. There is still homophobia in the ranks of many police departments.
Please stop the double speak of "confront their complicity...". That smacks of "must sign this confession...". They are men and women and other genders that want to keep their communities safe and also support the cause of Gay rights.
Leave them be and let them be in the parade. Enough of the PC drag...
9
Lately I've been watching videos and reading stories about police in other countries referring to themselves as "Peace Officers" and being shocked at how American citizens, especially American citizens of color, are being treated.
These officers have been trained to protect and serve.
They work in major cities, in stressful places.
They say their jobs are very difficult but they are trained to find solutions without using violence.
Too many police forces across America rely on violence instead of mediation.
Why handcuff and torture a man to death for a traffic violation? Why not take him into custody if the situation warrants it or just issue the guy a ticket?
No, do allow PEACE officers to be at the Gay Pride parade but no bullies or racist jerks who get their jollies by roughing up people.
No riot gear. I'll repeat that.
NO RIOT GEAR.
4
This essay should really be studied in argumentative writing classes as a remarkable exercise in contradiction. Exclusion in the name of inclusion! Prejudgements to combat prejudice! The only thing of which I am unclear of is if the writer herself is aware of her contortions.
9
I've been really irked by the false equivalence Gay points out. Now the police are being rejected by pride for what they choose to do. Choice being an operative word. It's archaic to equate the choice of being a police officer and the fact of being queer. I also commend the author for including "gay hustlers" when describing who started the first push back to the NYPD during the stonewall resistance. There is no need to further marginalize—yet every reason to bring to light—the sex workers, survival or otherwise, as we move forward in decriminalizing prostitution like many other reasonable countries across the globe. And, to stay more on topic, the cops are totally welcome to put their guns and uniforms away and march in the parade with everything else. The fact that they are resisting on the basis of uniform is—itself—an abuse of power and a form of domestic terror.
1
.... so for gay and lesbian police to feel as ‘safe and free’ as the author, they need take off their uniforms? Hardly sounds inclusive to me.
6
Another ridiculous argument that will only help further alienate moderates and independents next year and give the far right more power. Please stop!!
8
What an awful piece. The author repeatedly refers to
"police" as if they were a single entity, responsible for every crime a person in uniform ever committed. And she appoints herself as the judge of who belongs and who doesn't. Chilling.
15
I was terribly disappointed in this essay. All it does is continue to exacerbate the divide in this country. Why should the community not want to be police officers to change its demographics? Do you want community members not to take pride in being police officers and thus maintain those who do join as being antithetical to community rights?
Should Blacks and Jews, with histories of discrimination, not join and be proud?
This is a ridiculous essay. It is understandable but totally counterproductive. Think about your anger and if such displays will just increase hatred. I think it will.
6
This is sometimes incomprehensible: "mishandling intimate partner violence in our relationships..." Whaaat?
6
History, fortunately, will pay no heed your misgivings Ms Gay. There is no "occupation" question on one's application to be part of history.
A churlish suggestion, frankly.
4
Anarchist politics don’t belong at Pride.
7
The author states that she wants “a welcoming space where we can be safe and free”, yet spends the entire article stating why she would deny the same to LGBTQ police officers. Sad.
12
Wait until the pendulum swings back.The group who screamed about being stereotyped is now stereotypying the police.What a world of hypocrites we live among.
8
Ms Gay, you are badly confused. Do you want to change the way police interact with the Gay and Trans community, so that they fulfill the role of insuring public safety to everyone in society? Or do you want to freeze the police in their repressive, violent pose? Do you want to support the LBGTQ police officers who would march in the Pride parade despite villification and worse from their backward and bigoted colleagues? Or do you want to estrange those brave officers from both their colleagues in blue and their cohort in the culture of diversity in gender and sexual orientation? I grant you the very real scars of history do not disappear, but if you are trapped by that history, the wounds will be reinflicted, over and over again.
8
If gay police are participating in the march, they have as much right as any gay group. When I read the title I assumed that the complaint was against too many police using too much crowd control. That is unacceptable. Your deciding which groups meet your standard as being worthy to march is exactly what you are marching against.
4
Symbolism is for the symbol-minded.
4
My fellow Democratic friends often wonder how they'll know when the media has officially come untethered from any semblance of reality. Well friends, read this column closely, the day has arrived
10
In light of recent events, I’m waiting for a ruling from the woke and self righteous on weather or not the gay Jewish congregations can participate.
10
If we’re taking a stand against institutions that have done and continue to do wrong against the LGBT and BIPOC communities, I fully expect religious institutions to be banned. All of them. I don’t care what a particular member believes or how they rationalize it. They can March if they want, but without any banners or religious symbols. Ban it all!
Or perhaps there is room for more nuance to this debate? Perhaps we can see people as individuals and not judge them solely on the basis of problematic institutions with which they’re affiliated? Perhaps we could simultaneously have a large BLM pride contingent and allow queer cops to March in uniform? Perhaps there is a way to handle through inclusion rather than exclusion?
No? Oh.
(What a bunch of absolutist codswallop.)
6
The first Pride parade was a protest march. It took place in July 1969, exactly one month after Stonewall, and 400 people attended. I know, because I organized it.
Subsequent marches were community events. Later they became parades--like the Heritage of Pride celebration--and advertising opportunities for major corporations. I lost interest in participation. But if the Wells Fargo--which has a history of ripping off the Black community as well as any other customers--is allowed to insert a big float, why can't gay cops march?
Also, Ms. Gay, I would like to correct your statement that the movement was "largely ignited by Black trans women and young gay hustlers." Some of those who fought at Stonewall were young gay hustlers. Some were hustlers of varying ethnic backgrounds. None identified as trans. I was there.
8
There is a world of hurt and hatred embodied in police uniforms around the world. From dictatorships to Juntas to so called "socialist" republics the uniforms of police are there with their violence and rage, their weapons and tanks, the police daily reconfirm the right to rule of the few and the terrible. I grew up learning how vile gay men were nightly spied on in their bedrooms by police officers to apprehend perverts in their evil practices. That was the sixties, but it isn't long ago and a short distance away you can witness executions of young gay men to this day, courtesy of policing. I think there will be a time when we can accept police at gay marches, but that is yet far off.
1
When LGBTQ cops stand up against police brutality they should March In solidarity. But the so-called “good” apples do not intercede, they stand mute or cover up for the bad apples when they kill 3 Americans a day, everyday. LGBTQ cops need to earn the right to March when they stand up for all rights. If not, they are just a part of the thin blue line thugs that abuse citizens everyday. Honor your oath.
2
"We are a sprawling, unruly community." But tight and disciplined enough to exclude LGBT police officers from Pride parades if they wear their work clothing. This, when other participants wear an extraordinary range of clothing that signifies a remarkable diversity of life experiences. Oh, well.
5
I suppose what matters is why you march. I see marches as public expressions to the general public. They are not, therefore, private marches. As such, they make a statement to everyone seeing and hearing the march, and not just to the people marching. The author wants to exclude police, I suspect, because she thinks police will ambiguate and blunt the statement she believes the march makes. At least, that is what I gather here. Maybe that is fair, assuming she has the mandate to control the public message of those she purports to speak for. I can’t decide about that. I do think that LGBTQ police, clearly marching as members of this community and not as providers of “public safety,” create a powerful public expression that should be most felt by all members of police forces, especially any member misguided enough to believe they are somehow charged with repressing LGBTQ citizens from their pursuit of happiness and equality. But LGBTQ police must clearly identify their support for the march they want to join if reasonable concerns are to be mitigated.
"Her first Pride parade in New York City was also the first time, she told me early in our courtship, that she was able to understand what it feels like to be proud."
Why would anyone be proud of being gay? It's not something you achieve - you're born that way.
1
Roxane is missing the mark, in many ways. LGBTQ police officers marching in uniform do not merely affirm that police officers are gay and proud, but stands as a rebuke to those police officers who harbor anti-gay prejudice. It also tells those officers, “we, too, are your sisters and brothers.”
The message to the public is also strong: not to forget past transgressions, but to build a future that is inclusive.
Finally, these LBGTQ officers have a right to proclaim their full identity, “We are members of the LGBTQ community AND professional law enforcement officers.” They believe that there need not be a contradiction between the two, and have a right to say so, publicly, in the Pride parade.
19
So I ask Ms. Gay and the Pride Parade organizers, "Where does the healing begin"? In my opinion it does not begin with banning police officers who willing want to participate in the parade. And also refusing the security of the police on the route. So what if, God forbid, something happens and the police can't get there to stop it. Are you then going to condemn them for poor response time?
I have marched in many parades and alongside police officers in some. I have also had 2 instances where I was targeted by police because I was gay. I do not hold that against the officers that march or protect the Parade route.
And let's not forget, our community isn't without fault. I was appalled by the blatant disregard to the mandates last year when I saw members of our community in Hell's Kitchen on the streets maskless, partying in Mexico and Atlanta, maskless, for New Years and partying on Fire Island last year. No violence, but no respect for the mandates.
I have decided not to take part in Pride for the next 5 years, in NYC, unless this changes. Overall, as a black gay man, I and many others I know have had a good relationship with the police and gay police officers. To me, and some won't like this, it feels like the Pride organizers are jumping on a bandwagon. Targeting the few that will be at the parade does not help solve the problem. Go to the top and make them take action. JMO
12
So typical of the radical left. Rather than foster a spirit of inclusion, they seek out ad hoc litmus tests that are bigoted to the core. How ironic. Who will be excluded next year?
16
Around 1972 I went to one of my brothers classes at Loyola in New Orleans, that involved some type of criminal justice and psychology. This particular night the teacher had brought in some gay gentlemen who lived in the French Quarter and they described how they were abused by the police on a regular basis. We were outraged by that.
Coming to our present days, acceptance of alternate life styles has been fully accepted, as it should be. One little issue, now the gays are browbeating police.
Human nature gets "curioser and curioser" ever day.
2
Horrors! This opinion is ghastly and reeks of odorous score keeping. As an out senior member of the gay community for 40 years I’m appalled. Yes, I’m clutching my pearls!
Everyone putting on a uniform in service must be welcomed to a Pride celebration. We have spent many years building bridges with law enforcement and need more unity, certainly not less.
13
Pretty sure the author needs to back off a little. In many areas, the guts it takes for an officer to come out are pretty amazing.
10
I disagree with the author of this “ opinion piece.What a lousy excuse to exclude a group that should be welcomed. That risked putting themselves out in the open. Shame on the parade for doing this.
4
So, by the logic expressed here, gay cops should not be required to protect gay revelers from each other. Have at it.
4
I am a gay person who disagrees profoundly with this column, as do so many others. To my mind, this is a perfect example of what I find to be reductive and alienating about organized/politicized LGBTQ movements: a supposition that coming out or being gay is, in and of itself, ennobling. It’s not.
6
What a privileged, elitist, self-promoting and exclusionary columnist! A uniformed police officer marching in pride in front of his/her/their colleagues and the public is showing more courage and helping the pride community more in a single block than Ms. Gay will in her lifetime. The Times should print a rebuttal column by one of the officers marginalized by Ms. gay for self-promoting reasons.
12
I’m happy to see that the comments are overwhelmingly against this foolish policy of exclusion. Pride has shot itself in the foot. I am wondering how the sponsors will react. Usually they stay away from controversy.
By the way, the writer claims about Stonewall that “A movement, largely ignited by Black trans women and young gay hustlers, was born.” The photographs from that night do not support "largely".
6
I can't believe how wrong your thinking is here. You are part of a group that depends on tolerance, inclusion, and acceptance. To promote the blanket exclusion of an entire class of people without knowing who they are, what they believe, or what they contribute to humanity is the exact behavior you fight against.
6
Ms. Gay’s article is politically correct nonsense. It’s the same twisted logic that caused certain lesbian groups to exclude Jewish lesbians who wanted to March with the Israeli flag. They claimed to have felt threatened by this. These people are cut from the same cloth as the Uber right wingers they claim to abhor. Reactionary thought, be it on the left or the right, undermines us all.
14
A story that repeats itself throughout history. The oppressed become the oppressors.
8
What if a group of friends wants to show up to the parade dressed as the Village People? Not cool?
1
I'm definitely with Capehart on this – gay cops should proudly wear their uniforms on Pride. It took decades to get them their. Roxane Gay is much younger than me, and I have some issues with her recall of Stonewall and the Gay Rights Movement. (Mattachine Society. Daughters of Bilitis.) But as she said we are a large community. And I'm just gonna say it (and probably will get totally blasted for it) sometimes the political correctness that oozes from alphabet land (LGBTQ) – I can say that 'cause I am a member of Dorothy's club (but you can't if you aren't) is toooooo muuuuuch!!! And Roxane is correct, the Pride celebrations did absolutely get innundated with corporate sponsors. I know many people who just stopped going to the parade because of it. However even that reflected more breakthroughs in more tolerant attitudes in the work place which was a big deal. The last 4 years have been rough on America and her communities. Folks need to chill out a bit and enjoy our emergence from the collective nightmare we've all just been through. Happy Pride, Roxane.
3
The author seems content to discriminate and not allow for change in a particular group of people. How positively Republican.
8
How can you truly have a rainbow without blue in it?
6
Oh.....now I get it. Police are this years easy target.
Conjuring up bogies is not a valid point.
Next it will be Log Cabin republicans and straight people?
7
Wow. It seems like the author is everything she rages against - discriminating, superior, and worst of all, self- righteous. I fully understand the idea of not being forced to assimilate to make others feel more comfortable, and I’m wondering why she’s doing exactly this to LGBTQ officers in uniform. And since when is having an ordinary career an assimilation?
7
Surely you are doing to others what others have done to you! Here's an opportunity to work with the police who support you - and all you can do is marginalize them! What a lost opportunity. What a shame.
5
I disagree with Ms. Gay. Pushing away allies seems very Trumpian. I admire the gay cops that have come out to add breadth to the community. Exclusion always bears bitter fruit.
2
I wonder what kind of world of economic privilege the author and her wife inhabit. Do they live in an expensive home in a low-crime neighborhood?
I live in an area of NYC that is widely reviled as high crime, and there have been three shootings on our corner in two years. Bullets have flown into the homes of Black and Brown immigrant neighbors, who demand police presence and action. The neighborhood precinct council meetings are well attended, and there is not a peep in local social media about abolishing or defunding the NYPD. The residents want the police to do their job properly, and participate in public meetings to communicate needs and demands.
I want LGBTQ police to be acknowledged as members of our queer NYC community and welcomed.
Why doesn’t the author call for the shunning of Catholic LGBT groups, on the grounds that the Catholic Church harms LGBTQ people by child molesting and lobbying against our rights?
5
Since the Victorian Age newspapers, including the NYT, wrote homophobic Op eds that advocated for laws that discriminated against us in the name of "promoting families" or "decency". Perhaps Ms. Gaye and everyone else at the NYT should stay away from Pride and reflect on her "complicity with an institution that does more harm than good to vulnerable communities".
For centuries, nothing has demonstrated more violent hostility to gays that those who advocated for the institution of marriage. Another reason why Ms. Gaye and her wife could stay home.
Shall I go on with the religious analogy to suggest banning all gay Christians, Jews and Muslims from marching in the parade in clerical clothing? How about gay Republican marchers sporting G.O.P t-shirts? or shall we branch out from homophobia and exclude marchers connected in some way to slavery and Jim Crow (READ the Democratic Party). Who else can we ban who is connected in some absurd way to persecution against gays for the last few millennia?
If there is a good reason to #DumpPride, it is because of the influence of over-educated, indoctrinated and anti-intellectual activists and organizers who have become nothing more than enforcers of the Conformity, Intolerance and Exclusion Victims Brigade.
10
This is classic left that trades in grudges and injustices of the past. Here, we have an opposition to move forward!!! And they want to open up old wounds. Police marching in uniform as LGBT is a breakthrough!
3
As a card-carrying liberal, the top comments on this post give me some hope that people with Ms. Gay's attitude will not carry the day.
7
What nonsense. Police belong at all public events in a civil society. Police have been at Pride for many years. Police have a vital peacekeeping role, and Pride marchers, like all citizens, are entitled to their protection. One can recognize that bad policing has been done without rejecting the idea that good policing is a necessity.
7
This article was disappointing to me. Exclusion isn't the answer.
Two of my grandchildren (both past 30, a man and a woman) are gay and I love them dearly and am completely supportive of the gay community.
For those of us who are past a certain age (especially us octogenarians!) the designation use of "queer" is really uncomfortable. In my earlier years gay (another "new" term, but at least a happy sounding one) people were referred to as "queer" and it was a derogatory term. My grands don't refer to themselves as "queer" and I wouldn't dream of identifying them that way.
Terminology matters.
5
I think the grownups have permanently left the country by surveying the nonsense going on in this society.
The LGBTQ community and the law enforcement community are both solidly established in our communities and culture. Do what I would tell my toddlers. Play nice and get along because there is no other viable option.
7
I love the way you think, Roxane, AND you missed the mark on this. The “either/or” tenor of your argument is too simplistic and denies intersectionality. We have to be able to hold the tensions inherent in our differences and dialectically work toward inclusion and equity. I can think of no better place to do that than in our LGBTQ and BLM movements. We need to be able to envision a future none of us have experienced yet, and I’m convinced that will require “both/and” thinking and action.
211
Jamie-
Not an easy thing to do for me and others...but perhaps imagining a “both/and” future is what we need to do...thx.....
7
"I hate cops," I said often, and loudly, when I was younger. I also wore a button saying "Eat the rich."
I and members of my first-generation, poor family have had very dark experiences with police officers, experiences I don't need to detail here. Just imagine everything you've heard and seen, and apply it to low-income, Polish-Americans living in a small town.
Years ago I was hitchhiking in Virginia, working my way back to New Jersey. A bald cop with mirrored, aviator sun glasses and a Southern accent ordered me to enter his police car. I did.
"Vic" was a scary guy. He drove me dozens of miles out of his way. He used his radio to try to find me a bus. He offered me money for a ticket. throughout, he never stopped being what he was: a hard, scary guy.
There are all kinds of people out there. Cops, the same class of men who badly hurt members of my family when they were vulnerable, have a tough job. We call them when we are in trouble, no matter our history.
I no longer say, "I hate cops." And I've had other life experiences that educated me enough to discard, and feel some shame for, my "Eat the rich" button.
8
One would think that the writer would be welcoming the visible inclusion of a bedrock component of mainstream society, namely the police (with all the historical negative connotations thereof), into the 'unruly' gay pride parade. For how else to demonstrate how America is changing? How else to demonstrate that uniforms don't matter? And that it is the people wearing them who do? The writer is falling into the trap of retribution, which will, of course, engender a response of same. The police, and the military, for that matter, should be allowed to march in uniform if they want to. The writer is too narrow and shortsighted, in my opinion.
6
"The idea that we should now forgive the past and make peace with oppressive police forces is ludicrous. It is infuriating."
You may want to hold on to your past grievances and marginalize the police who risk their lives every day to keep you and your community safe, but I emphatically do not. I welcome the police--gay, straight, trans, whatever, in uniform or out of uniform--at Gay Pride.
Maybe we should also exclude legislators from Gay Pride, after all, they enthusiastically passed anti-gay and anti-trans legislation for decades, and some still do. How about journalists? 50 years ago they were writing all sorts of denigrating articles about the gays. Or maybe psychiatrists? They had classified homosexuality as a mental illness until the 1970's.
I don't care who you are, if you want to be at Gay Pride, then I say you are welcome. Come and join the celebration. Let's all unite together in love and peace and, if needed, reconciliation.
13
This monolithic thinking exposes the intolerance on the left which is every bit as toxic as the intolerance on the right. The virtue signaling is sophomoric.
15
I'm all too familiar with the myriad ways police mistreat our people. But excluding gay cops (in uniform) from Pride is not helpful. It only exacerbates tribalism. A lot of good is accomplished when straight cops (and cis-het people in general) see queer cops marching with their LGBTQ brothers and sisters. And as much as I hate commercialization, a lot is accomplished when Joe Six-pack sees Budweiser displaying a rainbow in June.
Pride marches are, among other things, demonstrations. They are a way of our demonstrating to society that we exist and that others support us.
323
@Ann Onymous
Your point is valid; however, it's my understanding that police can't be in uniform when off-duty. I have no objection to the presence of on-duty police, in uniform, carrying out their roles in "serving and protecting" and I whole-heartedly support our queer sisters, brothers, and others who are members of police and military joining, but I find it incongruous to have uniformed, off-duty police marching in Pride.
If they want to march, they should make banners and march as a group -- out of uniform -- to let the world know that they're police/military and that they're "here and queer."
7
@PHornbein, PhD Your claim that police officers can't be in uniform off-duty is incorrect.
In all cities with large pride parades, police departments have authorized officers to participate in uniform. That's absolutely true in NY, LA, SF, Chicago...
20
This seems to be another negative effect of Trump! It has become fashionable to draw lines and cheer exclusion and "us" vs. "them" mentality. It's easy to fall for simplified black and white world views. Resist.
4
I disagree. Pride, like the Democratic Party. must remain a big tent. I don't care to go point for point with Gay (i.e. kink vs. family friendly) as to inclusion.
Or perhaps this is just more left sectarianism in the form of LGBTQA politics? I think we all know where that gets us.
3
This is where all movements inevitably retreat—to the tiny capsules of us and them. Blacks don’t want Indigenous People’s Day because sometime far long ago and likely in a very small number, some Indigenous People owned Black slaves. LGBTQ groups are only ok with groups they like, as if allowing police at a parade gives the ok for police brutality against the LGBTQ community. The more exclusive a group grows, the more isolated and “different” they become. Want to be seen as something more than your color, ethnicity or sexuality? Stop drawing lines between yourselves and others. Open up to the possibility of change in others and yourselves. Most people don’t really give a darn about identity politics. Being gay, trans, black, white, Asian, Pacific Islander, or LatinX doesn’t make you special. Stop with the grievances and move on.
6
Having lived and gone to NYC pride for years, I have to say that excluding certain folks from participating in the event seems like a step backward.
At the very least it certainly causes negative publicity and fuels the conservative narrative that the LGBT community isn't as accepting as we'd like others to be.
Let's move forward with progress and put the tribalism behind us. I for one welcome all to join me in celebrating my gay family's visibility and our continued fight for equal protections in our country.
Thanks but no thanks Roxanne. You don't speak for me.
5
Two statements by Gay that opened and closed a paragraph:
"We are a sprawling, unruly community."
"Assimilation cannot be the price we must pay for freedom."
These are just banal words that Gay is throwing around that are then used to justify exclusion based on a profession.
Like Fannie Lou Hamer, me and so many others are plain sick and tired of others - straight, gay, Christian, atheist, the right, the left, etc. - not simply being satisfied with living their lives out, loud and proud, if they so choose.
No, more than that, myself and so many others are sick and tired of so many activated people pushing their life choices to the point they feel they have to shove them down everyone else's throats, even up to judging the profession they choose.
If you're going to exclude police from Pride, then why not firefighters? The military? Doctors? Accountants? Since, when it gets right down to it, what on earth does Pride even have to do with a person's choice of profession? The answer - nothing!
Exclusion, no matter what form, is just more identity politics and wokeness running amok. And it has no place in America - full stop.
7
Nope. Sorry. Your headline alone is nakedly prejudiced.
'Bad Cops Don't belong at Pride' is obvious. That sentiment rightly puts the LGBT community's considerable and hard fought political clout behind BLM and police reform.
But you lose me -- and the argument -- when you cross the line and assume all cops are bad. That's no different from 'all gays are child molesters'.
Are there bad cops? Yes, and we need to do something about it.
Are there people in our community who have been abused by cops and are understandably fearful of them? Yes. They should be supported to overcome those fears, even as the bad cops who abused them are removed from the system.
But two wrongs don't make a right.
The only defensible argument for defunding the police is that we've solved all of society's problems, crime rates have gone to zero and they just aren't needed anymore. Until that day actually arrives, we need a police force if we want to have a civil society. Our best bet then is to engage with the police and work towards reform.
Banning the police (from pride or anywhere else) is as naive as banning abortions. It doesn't solve the underlying social problems that make them a necessary evil.
6
I moved to the Twin Cities over 50 years ago. I was told by many that the hospital emergency room in downtown Minneapolis was filled every weekend with gay men the police had assaulted.
I have to ask why people believe that the police create a safe space. Perhaps they do, for a certain demographic...
4
"Cops Don’t Belong at Pride"
Of course they don't. But that's the problem, isn't it? You can be in any of the protected/victimized groups you want, but if you're not liberal/progressive/Democrat it doesn't matter.
2
This is all rather hypocritical. For someone who is a part of community that is constantly excluded from many parts of society, the author is actively pushing for exclusion of people with a certain profession.
5
Regardless of the LGBTQ status of NYPD officers, as a NYer who spent the vast majority of the Pandemic in NYC, seeing hostile, mask refusing officers standing everywhere to "protect" us didn't really instill trust in the NYPD...one of my "Covid Pod" members lives maybe a block and a half from City Hall and her dog route took her (and I) past lines of NYPD officers stationed on all sides of City Hall and near where much of the BLM Manhattan protests terminated...masks under chins, masks worn on wrists, mask nowhere to be found were the norm...and when asked why they weren't wearing masks, after a mask mandate of NYPD was announced, they would hold up a wrist or ignore us, altogether...whether any of them were or weren't LGBTQ didn't matter when their feelings on the efficacy and respectfulness of mask wearing showed in that display...also, the head of the PBA held a press conference and announced that they supported trump for President...so, sorry if a community marching in honor of it's existence, in spite of the NYPD's historic harassment, isn't rushing to give warm fuzzy hugs and march with officers in uniform...when actual reforms and accountability for past and still occurring offenses are taken, then marching with uniformed officers might be more of a "healing moment"... you can't expect a community that is used to dealing with police in negative terms to not be very upset...and the weird pretzel logic to equate LGBTQ to uniformed police inclusivity is just bonkers...
4
Having attended SF Pride for years as an ally, as the mother of a straight, black cop — I must agree with Jonathan Capeheart. We can honor Stonewall and fight against homophobia by some current police officers and still allow a contingent of officers marching as allies (or as LGBTQ themselves) at Pride. Official participation sets a tone for the department and for the community. Marginalizing law enforcement sets a quite different one that only reinforces homophobia.
5
If you’re going to make a list of people who don’t belong at Pride, the first person you should put on the list is yourself.
7
A marcher since 1981, I well remember the many milestones the LGBTQ+ community has celebrated (and, sometimes, mourned) over four decades – including the celebratory moment the Gay Officers Action League first marched. And yet, now we have this.
Left out is the ongoing campaign by the Queer Liberation schism group to accomplish what Heritage of Pride announced – get police out of the march. Never mind that QL wants to take over the march from HOP itself and remove all corporate support. QL’s relentless complaints have led HOP to feel it has to address them. I doubt HOP expected quite this much backlash. Literally every post on HOP’s Facebook page is full of comments decrying this decision.
But we live in a post 9/11 world that unfortunately requires far more security along NYC parade routes than ever before. It’s naïve to think the Pride march wouldn’t be a target for someone like the terrorist who drove a truck down the West Side Highway, killing eight and injuring another 11 people. No QL supporter I’ve talked to who has had an answer for this. They just say “we have to get the cops out of Pride.” This isn’t helping.
There is time before a possible traditional march in 2022 to come to a truer community-based consensus than HOP has solicited through Covid-era Zoom meetings. HOP can start by getting input from the many groups that have marched for the last several decades and not just listening to the loudest voices at their monthly membership meetings.
1
You won! Get over it. Imagine any revolution spurning security services after taking control. You're needlessly antagonizing and stoking culture war nonsense out of some adolescent desire for retribution, or, more likely, desperate need to position yourself against the status quo to maintain your identity as a revolutionary.
There is no more total victory for a social movement than transforming the hearts and minds of your oppressors - it's the end goal of non-violent action.
The welfare of LGBT Americans depends on leaders such as yourself not snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
8
I can understand both sides of the argument, however I see a lot of comments here (including those highlighted by the NYTimes) that gloss over - or entirely ignore - a central point of this opinion:
“Let’s be clear: We should not have to contort ourselves to make straight people more comfortable with our lives. Assimilation cannot be the price we must pay for freedom.”
You can take issue with the choice to disallow queer officers from marching in uniform. However, if you do disagree with that choice then you also have to be willing to disagree with the quotation above.
Either way the fact still remains that damage has been inflicted on the queer community time and time again by officers in uniform, not the other way around. Demanding that the queer community, at large, overlook this fact, forgive this fact and forget this fact is an enormous and (I would say) unreasonable request. The trauma exists, and police uniforms are symbols which represent that trauma.
We should be mindful not to blame the victim.
62
Very well put, John of Chicago!
3
@John You are effectively saying that we should ban gay men and women from marching in uniform as police officers in pride because the police will always be our enemy and will never be turned into a resourrce rather than a threat. That is incredibly narrow minded and short sighted to me and contrary to everything that the LGBTQ movement is about. It is also forcing one gay person's perception of the path forward on many others.
22
@John
The quote uses "we" - the reporting clearly shows that this is not the beliefs of the majority of the LGBTQ community -it is the belief ethos of a few professional contrarians who want to impose their will on all marchers.
There is no "we" for banning cops
The real "we" want to continue the ethos of inclusivity that most Americans of all stripes hope to engender.
22
It is truly remarkable how some people can’t see their own hypocrisy and hatred.
9
I am heartened by the fact that the responders here are overwhelmingly rejecting Ms Gay’s position. One that she twisted herself into a pretzel trying to justify.
7
Well, I'm not gay, so I cannot pretend that I have experienced the kind of discrimination that LGBTQ folk have. I am so very sorry about how you've been treated. But it seems to me that if police officers could see their own as part of your community, that little by little their hearts would soften and their eyes would open. Plus, I think your LGBTQ brothers and sisters in the police department need you. Please reconsider.
4
agree and disagree.
Yes the police were(sometimes are) bad.
If and that is a big it, actual police reform is to take place, the gay community should have a seat at the table. The trans community seems to be the latest gop scapegoat. As they go after trans rights do not think for a moment the rest of your community is safe. Make friends where you can, when you can. You never know when you will need them
2
For a group that preaches nonstop about equality and inclusivity it seems it does not practice what it preaches.
9
I'm amazed at how so many people can miss such a simple point. I wonder how many people actually read the essay.
2
Ms. Gay writes: "There have always been calls for the L.G.B.T.Q. community to neuter the sex from our sexuality, to temper our flamboyance, to bend to heterosexual norms. Let’s be clear: We should not have to contort ourselves to make straight people more comfortable with our lives. Assimilation cannot be the price we must pay for freedom."
Perhaps what Roxanne Gay describes as "heterosexual norms" are actually authoritarian norms. Female sexuality and generativity have been marginalized and commodified throughout human history. We are have sexual reproductive apparatus and structure. We have all been indoctrinated to think in certain ways about those body/mind/identity connections.
I am a "cis" woman who happened to be in Manhattan for one Pride Parade. I watched the gay Police Officers march and found it to be gutsy and hopeful. I walked north on Fifth Ave. until I found an open place to stand on the sidewalk in front of the church across the street from St. Patrick's Cathedral. A police officer, female, approached me and told me I couldn't stand there. I had wondered why the space was open. It seems obvious to me now. The police officer was doing her job likely enforcing some parade permitting detail.
And, respectful, peaceful coexistence is not assimilation.
1
Excluding people including cops is not a good look for those whose basic premise is that gay people should be welcomed and accepted for who they are.
4
As the heterosexual father of a bisexual daughter, who was repeatedly discriminated against by “real” lesbians and gays for being “confused” or “going through a phase” after which she would finally figure out who she really was—I’m enormously frustrated, once again, to see another LGBTQ individual (a bisexual, no less) further discriminating against other LGBTQ individuals, who somehow cannot be trusted, just because they aren’t “just like me.” What this says to me, sadly, is that LGBTQ people are still just people. And narrow minds are not the exclusive domain of heterosexuals like me. By the way, my daughter took her own life, partly, as I understand it, because she could not find a real home even in the LGBTQ community. She died of loneliness. Suicide rates are abnormally high among this marginalized population—largely because of the intense pain of social exclusion. C’mon already, let’s stop ostracizing the ostracized! Diversity means even the LGBTQ cops should be welcome—just as, and who, they are. Should they be forced to conceal their true selves, by keeping their uniforms “in the closet”!? Seriously?
477
@Jay E. Valusek
I'm sorry to hear about what happened to your daughter--what she experienced was inexcusable. However, that doesn't make your comparison any less insulting. What your daughter experienced was very real and awful; that's not the same as telling gay cops not to wear their work clothes to the parade. If cops don't like the treatment they get, they can get different jobs (hopefully ones that don't involve harassing or killing the people they're supposed to serve). That's not a choice your daughter had.
5
@Jay E. Valusek - "And narrow minds are not the exclusive domain of heterosexuals like me."
You're comment totally nails it.
Please accept my sincerest sympathy for your loss.
71
Completely agree and I’m so sorry for the heart-breaking loss of your daughter.
47
Ah, there’s nothing like exclusion to promote inclusion.
9
In June of 2016, I went to Pridefest, our local Pride event on a Saturday afternoon. It was a very hot day and physically, rather uncomfortable for me. Still, I stayed for several hours as this was my one big Pride celebration of the year. I didn't plan on going to Pridefest on Sunday. But the Pulse Nightclub shooting happened Saturday night and I had to be with my community on Sunday. When I got to Pridefest on Sunday, there was a heavy police presence just outside the gates. Inside, several police officers walked around the grounds. I never saw that many cops at Pridefest, but I sure was happy to see them on that Sunday. When Pridefest returns, I'll be happy to see the police mingling with my queer community.
7
Sorry Roxane but painting everybody with the same brush as you have done with the police is a form of rank prejudice and exclusion at its worse. I thought the true path was one of finding harmony not division.
10
I sure wish this column had been around when my son asked me to define hypocrisy.
11
Presumably these gay cops have faced and still face to some extent discrimination within the police force.
To publicly identify as cops at the event achieves two things. First, it is a declaration to their fellow cops. Second, by allowing police to appear in uniform, the police force hierarchy declares that it is OK to be gay. I would think both are positives.
347
Hatred and distrust of others is partially based in our genes and frontal lobes. We had to recognize threats from those who are different to survive. As we have progressed socially as a species, we have learned about all the differences in our species. Isolate a group from others, and they will eventually look different, speak a different language, have different social norms and develop different religions.
There is a great tendency to distrust, dislike and dehumanize those that are different from us. The only way to change that is to interact with the and realize the commonalities that bind us. Some people can not be socialized and they should be avoided, but only after attempts at communication.
Unfortunately, the role of government can be good with laws and enforcement to assure equal treatment, but in many cases and with the rise of demagogues, it can have the opposite effect.
So everyone, including police, should be approached with initial tolerance. It may not work, but rejection as a fixed rule will just assure a bad outcome.
1
Has the next heterosexual parade been scheduled? Since all people, regardless of their affiliation, should be proud of their life choice, a parade on 5th Ave starting at the Met is called for.
1
I don't know if gay cops should be made to feel bad for being cops. I think gay cops add a voice to the caps and to gay pride. You want to control who can celebrate at pride? It doesn't make sense to me.
3
This opinion doesn't surprise me.
The 'alphabet soup' of the LGBTQ+ community has a long history of who is included and who is not.
The more letters that are added, the more restrictive it is.
So, I'll say it: Discrimination is the hallmark of the right wing conservatives.
It is in every law that conservatives offer or pass.
Right now there are 398 laws against voting being offered in 48 states.
All of them discriminate against someone, somehow.
In this dialogue the right has captured the agenda, shrilly shouting that 'cancel culture' belongs only to them. Only THEY can name who is this or that.
Sure, guns, uniforms, blah, blah. Got it.
But I don't get why the ending on this tale wound up discriminating against a group that has been there from the beginning.
Not a good sign.
This needed more discussion, not more discrimination.
3
Whatever. Keep throwing contempt at police. Police still want to keep caring, but at some point, it gets too ridiculous, too hurtful, too much. So they have to stop caring, and/or they leave.
You (everybody) lost a lot of good cops this year.
6
Ms. Gay has spared me the trouble of reading her books. Not just because I don't like what she wrote her but because she reveals what drives her opinion for passionately. I would never support a separatist of any kind, feminist or otherwise. It's completely counter-productive.
5
So once again Roxanne delights us with her magical thinking - her definition of "inclusion" naturally excludes certain arbitrary non-welcome demographics.
Maybe we need a new word: kinda-inclusive?
5
The perfect example of Woke hypocrisy.
12
If marchers can identify based on their profession, then it wholly should be allowed. Anything less is prejudiced.
2
Amazing how some people who have felt marginalized somehow see it as their obligation to now marginalize. Kink is fine, but to wear (with pride) your police uniform and announce to the world that you are both a cop and gay is not? - to me the inclusion of gay uniformed police officers sounds like we've evolved by light years since the 1960's. Shake off your rigidity Ms. Gay and enjoy the parade.
6
Who do u suggest should provide security at the parade?
Isn't stereotyping a whole group by the actions of a few a type of discrimination?
5
If you don’t welcome evolution you will remain stuck in the past. Stereotyping police officers as “oppressors” is the same mind set we are fighting against.
3
This is outrageous.
Denying any gay people the right to march in the Pride parade is antithetical to its own principles.
We who have gay children should be so happy that there are gay members of law enforcement ready to march.
Pride should be aimed at generating solidarity, not at dismissing constituencies.
349
I remember when I had to conceal my bisexuality if I wanted to work in law enforcement. I despair that those dark times have come again.
5
Another example of the American “progressive” left mistaking self-righteous hatred for a virtue. They are their own worst enemy and will continue to fuel Trumpism until they realize what diversity and inclusion actually mean.
11
Wanna talk about irony? In this instance, who's policing whom?
4
If cops don’t belong at Pride, would you agree that Gays don’t belong at St. Patrick’s Day?
To say a Gay cop can’t march in a Pride parade is no less exclusionary than to say A Gay Irish person can’t march in an Irish march.
Wow- Gays discriminating against other Gays based on employment. That’s upsetting.
6
If straight police see gay police in the parade, it might lead to less harassment of / discrimination against gays.
3
The fact of the matter is that cops don't deserve to be anywhere these days. All they do is promote violence and disrupt peaceful parades of Americans.
Don't believe me, "sadly, the trend of fatal police shootings in the United States seems to only be increasing, with a total 292 civilians having been shot, 62 of whom were Black, in the first four months of 2021. In 2020, there were 1,021 fatal police shootings, and in 2019 there were 999 fatal shootings. Additionally, the rate of fatal police shootings among Black Americans was much higher than that for any other ethnicity, standing at 36 fatal shootings per million of the population as of April 2021."
Police cause more violence just by being anywhere, simply because of the lack of proper education, and not having a Master’s Degree in their fields.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/investigations/police-shootings-database/
1
Pride should always be about inclusion, not about exclusion. That's why our symbol has been for decades the rainbow--to bring everyone in under the sun who feels like a sexual minority. It's as simple as that.
3
Use of the term "latinx" is racist and it has no place in legitimate media.
Applying an English language convention to a gendered language with the aim of liberating it is peak savior behavior.
8
From the article:
"As we continue to think about who belongs at Pride..."
Oh, the hypocrisy.
7
I full agree with Ms. Gay about not wanting to see cops at Pride in uniform and armed. The police to this day harass LGBT people for fun and/or out of hate.
Wasn't that many years ago I, a trans woman, was leaving an appointment in downtown Portland. It was Summer. I was dressed appropriately for a hot day, denim skirt covering my knees, sandals, tank top, just enjoying the feel of the sun on my shoulders walking down the street.
I was stopped by a pair of cops. Before I knew it there were four more. They pushed me back against a wall and claimed I was "walking with intent to solicit" which I was not. Just walking down the street living my life. It felt like it went on forever as they mocked me, told me they'd throw me in a cell packed with men, and finally grabbed my purse and dumped it out on the sidewalk telling me that if I had a single condom that would be evidence enough to take me in. I was terrified.
Thankfully I didn't have one. My purse was then thrown on the ground and they left laughing and joking with one another. I was left in tears and dealing with a panic attack.
Managed to get home and spent a long time too scared to go outside all because some of Portland's finest were bored and wanted to toy with me for their personal entertainment.
Oh, right, my city happens to be one of the best places to live if transgender.
And, no, I did not report it. To who? The same cops? Please.
7
I've been marching with my LGBT friends since the late 80's, protesting their exclusion from the community in many guises. Now I find out it was never about inclusion? A bit of success and out comes the pay back list?
The Board has lost its way in the swamp of identity politics. I hope this is overturned.
8
Completely disagree. They can be proud to be gay. Proud to be cops. Proud to be gay cops.
It is really important for people of all backgrounds and orientations that the police force reflects the community. Having gay people working as cops helps achieve this very important goal. And as such, should absolutely be part of a celebration of gay pride. There was a time when a gay person could not serve on the police force and be openly gay. The very fact that police can now be openly gay is an achievement! People shouldn’t confuse issues around police brutality, etc. (which are, of course, extremely important) with the separate issue of diversification of the police force.
9
Yes, police have been oppressive of minority groups. Yes, police culture must be redefined. To that end I see police attempts to reach out and to integrate with the LGBTQ community, with any minority community, as positive and worthy of embrace if relations are ever to improve.
Policing in some form or other will continue as part of community life. In a rainbow coalition with religious groups, parents organizations and of those from all walks of life, police shouldn’t be singled out for exclusion.
Acceptance is acceptance, and I see police participation as their effort to bridge the divide, certainly not as intimidation.
If we want to be counted with Pride as community members of all stripes then everyone – everyone including police, either off duty or in uniform – should be welcome without exception, come as they are.
5
Banning firefighters, military personnel, and police personnel does nothing to promote understanding. While it is true that there have been incidents past and present of abuse and oppression, we get nothing and go nowhere by burning bridges. If we truly are proud of who we are, we do not stoop to the tactics used by those who oppress us. We heal and become better by offering a hand of support and friendship to our brethren humans, regardless of gender identity.
10
Please provide a list of all persons not welcome at Pride. I'd hate to know that my ongoing support for the LBGTQ movement makes some people uncomfortable. I'll find people and places where my support is appreciated.
9
Police officers marching in uniform demonstrates to all people that there are lgbtq men and women willing to put their lives on the line to protect them. It also shows that the police department allows it officers to be openly lgbtq and support the Pride movement.
Rather than cancel the police, lgbtq officers should be encouraged to ask straight officers to march with them as a sign of solidarity.
13
But don't police officers, fire fighters, and all branches of military personnel show up in uniform at Pride to show their conservative co-workers that they exist?
I'm conflicted here. I understand the historical pain, but insisting that people put their uniforms away also feels like being told to go back in the closet...
17
My understanding, from reading another Home Page article in this paper this morning, is that the board of Heritage of Pride put the question to a vote of membership. The membership voted to include police officers. The board then, behind closed doors, threw out the vote and announced the ban anyway.
How different is that from a Republican state legislature that ignores the results of a state wide referendum and overturns the people's choice? Or would have overturned a presidential election of they could have gotten away with it?
I would think parade organizers should be pleased to say, "Look everyone. There are gay police officers too."
22
Agreed. The continued police brutality in NYC, including at LGBTQ protests, cannot be swept under the rug. When the NYPD cleans house and reforms, perhaps reconsider. For now, they need to stay out of the parade while in uniform. They are a hostile force and need to be treated as such.
5
I understand that black and brown people feel very threatened by the police, for good reason, and that the NYPD has not handled street protests well. That said, when good people want to join the force and reform it from within, that is our best opportunity for reform, and we should be encouraging it. When LGBTQ join NYPD and are out and eager to celebrate with pride, they should be applauded. It is terribly discouraging that people don’t see that. If you shame LGBTQ for being part of NYPD, fewer will actually want to join the force and then we move backwards and the police force becomes less inclusive.
13
Cops belong at Pride. Their presence speaks to the progress we have made as a community. In their uniforms they can speak to the central tenet of Pride: Out and Proud.
I hope every lgbtq police officer comes and marches along side of us.
36
@Janice Smith Clearly, you have never had a police interaction as an evidently queer person. Take off the uniform and be welcome, but the uniform is a symbol of oppression and violence.
What does a queer cop lose by wearing casual clothes to the parade?
If queer police officers truly want to be a part of the lgbtq community as they claim, it shouldn't be an issue to attend in a t-shirt. They could feel all the community love, collect Coors Lite swag, and get a sunburn like everybody else, and then go home knowing they made a small sacrifice to the comfort of people who might otherwise have felt threatened by their presence- in short, they served the community, rather than requiring it to serve them.
Police who insist on showing up armed at every event don't want to find belonging and welcome in communities, they want to control and intimidate them, and be celebrated for it.
13
I feel the same way about drag queens. They scare me and I’m pretty sure it’s getting them off. Drag queen attire can stay in the nightclub please.
4
@Justin What does a gay person lose by keeping their sexuality to themselves?
Freedom for me but not for thee.
"We don’t need them at Pride providing security."
We can defund them as well. No?
15
This is not hard to understand. Come as your civilian gay self- not as your police unit. Makes sense- the criminalisation of homosexuality-or any other non hetero identity- for much of the past has not been answered for . The police as a unit are always perceived as hostile to LBGTQ- cause they still are.
24
It’s hard to understand how eager you are to have discrimination makes sense.
Let there be peace on earth, and let it big in with me, means your organization, too. A group that has faced so many attacks that can’t see the win-win of investigating officers witnessing the scene of any crimes first hand committed at your events is epic cut-your-nose-to-spite-your-own-face thinking. Moving forward does NOT obligate you to forget the past.
19
Excluding cops from the Pride Parade because there's been a history of brutality and harassment? Yet Gay religious groups are welcomed in? If we excluded every group from marching who at one time treated gays and lesbians abominably, would PFLAGG be next?
78
So, who would be responsible for safety ?
20
Yes, there is still a strong reactionary contingent among the police__that's why it takes a certain amount of bravery for these gay officers to march in uniform. They should not only be welcomed, they should be celebrated.
128
You write.."L.G.B.T.Q. officers are more than welcome to join Pride celebrations — unarmed and in civilian clothing." This sounds amazingly like what the organizers of the Boston St. Patrick's Parade use to say when LGBTQ goups wanted to march in that parade. You're more than welcome but you just can't carry any banners or identify yourselves as gay. In other words, stay closeted. As I recall, we as a community did not accept that argument then, nor should we accept it from you now.
149
Banish the uniform; welcome those who wear it to come in civilian clothes.
7
This piece glances over the much more alienating aspect of pride marches for me, the floats and contingents, one after another, from banks and insurance companies, none of which did anything for us historically, most of which were discriminatory and harmful, when it mattered.
But where there is corporate money there is a way, and these places get prominence at a place where they don't belong. And those of us who are individualists, there still are some within the community, are left feeling adrift, while this or that portion of the parade is paid for in advertising prominence.
I for one liked the good old days when people showed up on our own, demanding rights. These cheer-fests also de-fang any real political or cultural criticism, as if, everything is peachy keen in a country where over 50% of homeless youth are queer identified, rejected by their families.
They paved paradise and put up a parking lot.
19
@Ed Smart I have been to the pride parade in Austin a few times. That one is huge -- I was shocked at the size. But the marchers tend to be organized around employers and local organizations, not marketing. A lot of do-it-yourself / not slick, fun floats. And not much swag either.
As for this: "These cheer-fests also de-fang any real political or cultural criticism, as if, everything is peachy keen in a country..." I hear you! But I suspect only 1/5th of any population is really political or issues-aware. Most folks just like a party.
Defining any individual and limiting their rights based upon generalizations about their group is biased. It sounds like hypocrisy to me.
69
@Harvey Marshak
It sounds right-wing to me.
3
Yup....makes no sense to me...why pride folks would turn around and not welcome their own, and who happen to be cops. I mean, first off, wouldn't including LGBTQ cops be a good first step in improving overall relations with police?
Also, Ms. Gay said:
"They enforced laws about how we dressed, where we congregated and whom we had sex with. They beat us, blackmailed us and put us in jail."
"They"? Who is they? No group likes to be lumped together and pigeon-holed and talked about as 'they do (or did) this or that'.
Sure, policing as a whole needs serious fixing in the US. But I don't think it helps matters to malign all those who happen to be cops, and certainly not the ones who want to participate in gay pride, with their brothers and sisters.
50
Pride is for ALL Gay people and those who support them!
36
This commentary plays right into the hands of the Trumpists.
52
Banning cops in uniform plays into the hands of Trumpists.
1
Gay has a history of demonizing entire classes of people (read her Twitter feed if you have any doubt), so I guess I'm not interested in her take on the presence of LGBT police at Pride marches.
51
A parade in NYC that draws hundreds of thousands of people... with no police officers providing security... what could go wrong? Apart from everything? But I digress...
Ms. Gay's got an interesting historical perspective, especially in the way she places actions by law enforcement which ceased by the early 1970s in the present tense by stating "the police have tormented our communities":
"For decades, the police have tormented our communities. They enforced laws about how we dressed, where we congregated and whom we had sex with. They beat us, blackmailed us and put us in jail."
Everything referenced in the above statement - enforcing dress codes, raiding bars, beating/blackmailing/jailing people for being gay - ceased as policy soon after Stonewall uprising. In 2019, the NYPD apologized for the raid on the Stonewall. Was it opportunistic PR in time for the event's 50th anniversary? Probably, but it happened. How often do you hear the NYPD apologizing for anything?
As for those "complicit" traitors of the NYPD's Gay Officer Actions League who should atone for their crimes against LGBTQ persons... I'd like to see those who accuse them walk in their shoes for a day, a week or a month. If the NYPD is so hostile to the community, imagine how much strength of character it takes to be an out gay officer.
What is the hoped for goal in banning GOAL? What is hoped to be achieved by banning the NYPD from providing security? HOP has yet to clearly make that statement.
47
I understand, there’s a lot of healing that needs to take place.
3
Columbus Ohio has gay and lesbian officers in the parade, and the retired Chief of Police was an excellent police officer for decades, and lesbian.
26
Is there some way to make an official binding position on this among participants?
I'm not sure there is any price to be paid for 'should' arguments.
Those who feel more comfortable with police security should know it will be available; that is part of a lawful society.
Those who abjure it will likewise find a way to go.
In so going, I presume they realize their risk.
Jesus realized his risk as well, and planted a seed.
There’s a lot about this essay that reeks of resentment and resistance to an ongoing process of inclusion of the various alphabeti communities within mainstream society.
Words and phrases that argue for ongoing separation and exclusion, under the guise of exclusivity. An unwillingness to be generous with acceptance, participation, and belonging.
In other words, display of the kinds of attitudes that the parade organizers and participants originally protested.
I find that to be ironic, sad, and perhaps a little despicable.
73
I welcome the NYPD to the parade in all their colors and stripes. The parade is a celebration of people and acceptance, not exclusion as you Ms. Gay are advocating. The one thing that needs to be excluded is your negativity. Be a voice of love and acceptance, not a voice of grievances.
55
I have been attending pride parades since the early ‘80s, when no cop would be caught dead participating, so I’ve always viewed their increasing presence over the years as a positive sign that we are inching closer to equality, and so fully supported their inclusion. However, I am white and male, and so have never really felt the kind of discomfort or fear of the police that more marginalized communities do. This article helped me really understand the issue from a different perspective, and now I agree: uniformed, armed police should not be in the parade.
204
Discomfort is a reason to exclude people ?
251
@John How about allowing uniforms but not arms (guns)? Rethinking the meaning and role of police is better than hiding it from view. Unarmed police with rainbow flags are also less likely to trigger, so to speak.
42
@GC They aren’t being excluded. They’re beings asked not to wear uniforms.
31
Discrimination and exclusion is never the answer.
Those who are banning the police are no better then the people that suppressed members of the LGBTQ community in the first place.
192
This isn’t an argument, it’s a fallacy, and it’s also not true. Do better, thank you.
26
@C S What’s not true? The fallacy or the argument I’m not making?
Please do much better !
Maybe cite where excluding people has been good for relations in the long run.
Thank you.
44
@C S Actually, you should read the NY Times Editorial dated May 18th, which can be found below this article. The Editorial Board thinks uniformed police should be allowed to march in the parade. And they are right.
27
Why does anyone need a gun to March? Why do cops need their weapons and uniforms to affirm their identities? The answer is that they don’t. Being Queer is immutable, being a cop is a job.
Police are a civilian force, not military. Prior to the militarization of police forces 40 years ago, they knew this, now they believe they are apart from the public. So when you strip the gun and uniform, the cop loses their identity and lose their “privilege “ as above the law.
I am a cis white gay male in his late 50s who remembers the harassment and fear instilled by cops when going to the bars, walking the streets and just living my out gay life. Some may say that this has changed, but just look at the past year and how cops still abuse the public they are supposed to protect.
I also don’t buy the argument that it is only a few bad apples. There is no such thing as a good cop when they stand by and allow the abuses to continue. The “thin blue line” is a cancer. If you believe you are not a civilian, and that you are apart and above from society, you have no place at Pride.
If you want to march, then do so weaponless and out of uniform as part of the community. Do like everyone else and wear a rainbow t-shirt. We don’t need you as a militarized force that is apart from the community.
11
So, you think the police will protect you. I met an owner of his beloved pet once that said, "his dog was friendly," that is after 14 stitches at the local hospital.
My grandmother once said, if you need help, call the fire department, they won't arrest you for needing help.
7
The NYPD has been at the forefront of efforts to protect the Asian community and to bring to justice those who prey upon them.
Try calling the FDNY for that.
The progressive left makes a mockery of 'progress'. It stands for victimhood, division, tribalism, vindictiveness, and attention seeking. It is trumpism at its core.
38
So let me see if I understand this correctly: you would like to see the police force get better and act more humanely, including in the LGBTQ context, BUT gay members of the force should hide their belonging to such a group and certainly shouldn't feel proud of it. You don't even want to see the gay police officers who are perhaps trying to change the world for the better. Because what? They belong to a group that you yourself don't tolerate??
I would wish for more empathy and support shown towards such people, for whom it is certainly no easy matter to be part of a group that has had such a troubling history with their very identity.
Also, I find it deeply troubling that, by comparison, corporate sponsorship is acceptable to you. So people trying to make money off of your identity is okay but people who are fighting for that identity to be embraced in the police force are not.
The saddest part is that there is no hint of healing.
52
I think they’re looking for one day where they can feel truly safe. Police do not bring with them a feeling of safety. I’m a cis-het white guy and even I feel nervous when the police are around.
I can understand not wanting them at this parade.
It’s also possible to want that AND to want police to do better with their relationships with LGBTQIA.
It’s not like they have to be allowed in a parade in order to do better.
Also, they’re allowed to participate in the parade, just not with their uniforms and guns. How is this discrimination? Being a cop is not an identity.
(And she didn’t sound excited about corporate sponsorship btw)
64
Its important to recognize the experience of marginalized and oppressed people as it relates to the police. Not just historic but on-going. The police in, some communities, represent instruments of abuse and oppression. So, to the degree that a white middle age gay can ..I get it.
However these officers are our brothers and sisters. Their struggle is our struggle. To exclude them is to say their experience and work as queer officers doesn't count isn't part of our struggle or our community. Building relationships , recognizing each others unique experiences and celebrating the diversity of experience in the queer community is the foundation of pride.
I hope the pride committee reconsiders it decision.
21
‘Tis a pity we have become divisive within our own ranks. Sure there are problems with police today, but that doesn’t apply to ALL policeman across the board. In fact, many who march are gay themselves. Let those who honestly support the LGBTQ community demonstrate that support.
13
How many of the murdered trans folks were involved in the sex industry? If the institution of the police is deemed “unsafe,” then surely the institution of sex work should merit a similar condemnation? It’s got blood on it’s hands, after all.
10
My God! You cannot be more wrong!
Anyone who identifies as LGBTQ is welcome to participate and join the celebration.
If we excluded everyone who ever attacked or otherwise marginialized us it would be a small and meaningless parade.
Attitudes have changed for the better and we need to recognize and celebrate that!
24
We as a culture have moved backward, not forward, when a new LGBTQ generation shows such disrespect for the progress that has been made, partly DUE to the Gay Officer's Action League participating in the parade going back to the 80's. That was true bravery on their part, only to be slapped in the face by the very generation that benefitted from it and faces few consequences for showing up in 2021. Shame on them.
31
No cops please. No one wearing the uniform of military industrial cmplex.Recall Marsha P. Johnson and Sylvia Rivera who did LGBTQIA footwork. Recall their treatment by "law enforcement." Take a listen to Rise & Resist. Be creative in your responses to this issue. Dont bark political panacea. Write, Explore. Create. There are resources to help you with educated activists. No police.
5
@father lowell laurence How about understand ?
I say let's stop living through our past and our grievances Roxanne. It's a new world that can be inclusive of gay police and even straight police!
16
If you're going to exclude all people who, as a category, have historically oppressed the LGBTQ community, you should certainly exclude legislators and other politicians; certainly members of the legal system, like prosecutors and judges; certainly journalists, doctors, teachers, and athletes; certainly all manner of clergy, certainly anyone who works for a large corporation. Where is that absolutely pure LGBTQ person who actually DESERVES to march in the Pride parade? I had to wonder, reading this--because of its sanctimonious tone throughout--how many gay and lesbian cops Ms. Gay knows personally. I think you would have to be pretty brave to put on that uniform and be out...or a military uniform, or football or baseball uniform. I guess that if gay cops (and for that matter Black and Latinx cops) "confront their complicity with an institution that does more harm than good to vulnerable communities," they would quit their job. Then we could have an all-White, all-straight police force, and we could see how that would work for us.
27
I think it must be difficult for a cop, even today, to be openly gay. The officers who would march seem a lot more courageous than the author.
23
Seems like you should embrace the LGBT officers and pro LGBT officers as allies to help them effect change from the inside. When has progress ever come from exclusion?
15
Roxane hits the nail on the head again. Cops don't belong at pride. The first pride was a riot.
3
@Alexander Roberts . . . And the last "pride" will just be hysterical.
So it should be a riot every year?
“The police are not marginalized. They aren’t disowned by their families for carrying a gun and badge.”
Correct. They were disowned for being LGBTQ. Which is exactly why they should be allowed to participate.
Gay rights gained public acceptance so fast because its membership spanned all races, political persuasions, religions.
NYPD is an institution. Why not ban LGBTQ Baptists, Republicans, etc?
Exclusivity is against everything LGBTQ community stands for. Turning our back and judging our own community for choosing a profession where they can make change from within? The height of stupidity. No LGBTQ cop today had anything to do with Stonewall.
For the first time since I was 20, I am boycotting Pride.
23
This grudge helps no one and hurts the grudge holder in particular. Pretend to let it go for a minute, it that feels good, try another minute. Life is too short for anger.
9
I love The Washington Post's Jonathan Capehart -- all the more now that he has been brilliant as Mark Shields' successor, and David Brooks' foil (right word?), Friday evenings, on the PBS Newshour. But I love Roxane Gay too. And after some discernment in this difficult issue, and without loving Jonathan any the less, I see now that Roxane is right.
For the officers to march in the parade wearing their uniforms is to send the message, "The police department is your friend." But that is a lie. Whether because of the deplorable attitudes, demeanor and conduct of too many officers, or because of their unchallengeable superiority in legal authority and, usually, in real power, their presence for many of us will always be threatening and frightening. It's dangerous to be induced to think of such people as our "friends."
5
I am with Jonathan Capehart on this issue. I despise it when marginalized groups decide to marginalize other groups. Queer cops have every right to march. The Pride Parade has mostly evolved over the years into a giant corporate sponsorship event. Everyone is wearing a "uniform". A Chase Bank t-shirt. A Con Edison t-shirt. Every employer has their employees marching promoting their brand. So yes, queer police officers should march in their uniforms too. We see this throughout history. Marginalized groups go on to marginalize smaller groups. I am gay. Been married to my husband for 25 years. We both support the right of these officers to march and march proudly.
18
It's always worth asking who, exactly, benefits when people so carefully police the boundaries of their community, deciding who is in and who is out.
"You're not sufficiently black or gay or female or disabled or...."
And on what authority?
24
To err is human, to forgive is divine.
6
Reducing the public "kink" at Pride is simply a decency issue and has nothing to do w being anti- LGBT. One can have sex however one chooses in private. Being LGBT doesn't mean a free pass to be lewd in a public parade. As with the endless Kardashians, just put your clothes on in public already!
6
Sad, but wholly unsurprising, that Ms. Gay advocates for the exclusion of members of our community simply because of their chosen profession. It’s precisely this kind of thinking that the far right and alt-right members our of society foment in hopes of turning us against one another. While I support her right to her belief, I mourn her myopic view of what Gay Pride means. And I fear for her, for all of us, for playing into the very hand of those who oppress us all.
24
The history of the policing of LGBTQ people in this country is largely brutal and oppressive. Police in big cities and small towns have done terrible harm to LGBTQ individuals and communities, executing laws, and manifesting personal prejudice, often at the same stroke. Those state-sanctioned harms have disproportionately affected Black and brown, and poor, communities. Progress aside - and there have inarguably been significant liberal reforms since 1969 - police officers and departments, in their official roles, still stand, for many, as agents of oppression. I wish this call to exclude uniformed officers were being made in solidarity with BLM. That might be righteous - and more logical. But try as I might, I cannot find a principle by which uniformed police should be excluded while uniformed clergy are not.
The history of Christian churches with respect to LGBTQ people is one of organized violence - manifest in doctrine and in individual prejudice, even though there have always been LGBTQ people in the Christian professions. Some significant reforms have been made in Christian churches in recent decades, but there are still systemic and individual discrimination and stigma there, and oppressive actions against "homosexuality" and queer people still take place under an expressly Christian banner. Yet Christian churches with inclusive policy, and uniformed LGBTQ and allied clergy, are welcome, even celebrated at Pride.
I want to understand the difference - for Pride.
10
The presence of uniformed police participants in Pride is a sign of victory that pre-Stonewall era LBGT people probably would have had a hard time imagining. So we see that even in the gay community, there are people who stubbornly remain old-fashioned and resistant to change.
9
Roxanne Gay believes "We should not have to contort ourselves to make straight people more comfortable with our lives." Yet she wants members of her own community to do exactly that; to hide their identities as the price for acceptance.
18
When I attended my first NYC Pride March, the the display of bravery by the members of GOAL, who marched in defiance of the homophobia of their employer and colleagues, was for me the most moving moment of the day. Because the NYPD refused to recognize GOAL as an official affinity group on par with, among others, the Black, Hispanic, and Irish affinity groups, GOAL was denied the right to march in uniform. Many of their uniformed, on-duty NYPD colleagues felt free to flaunt their homophobia, even in the midst of tens of thousands of LGBTQ celebrants, by turning their backs as the GOAL contingent marched by. When the NYPD finally recognized GOAL as an official affinity group, not only could they march in uniform, but they were accompanied by the uniformed NYPD marching band. The appearance that first year of GOAL members in uniform - symbolically accepted and embraced by their uniformed colleagues - was for me a moment equal to the achievement of marriage equality and the end of Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell. Please don’t erase that moment of our history.
18
The police participate in Pride marches in Toronto and Montréal. They're part of the community. Their job is to protect us all. Some of them are gay and lesbian too. Even if they aren't L.G.B.T.Q., showing support for this segment of the community is important. Beyond labels - we're all human.
8
A disappointing essay that won't move any thinking person in the author's direction. It's just a series of assertions—and not a particularly convincing series. Gay police officers want to be known as gay police officers; they have no less right to be "known as" than anyone else at the event. "Law enforcement is not an innate identity," Gay writes. Is "kink" an innate identity? Is AFL-CIO membership an innate identity? Our military's record is no less open to criticism than the record of our police. Should service members be barred from joining in?
15
Inclusion, not exclusion. Working police who have outed themselves to their blue fraternity should be respected, even honored, as having made a first step towards demonstrating to their peers how diverse the world is and by extension how only a full embrace of inclusion can encompass that diversity.
20
The NYC Pride should include police officers, correction officers or any other people who identify as LBGTQ or who support them. The parade organizers should not become - “the oppressed become the oppressors.” As a community we’ve come too far to resort to ostracizing individuals or groups who identify with and support us. The parade should be a celebration of inclusiveness and a remembrance of Stone Wall.
19
How sadly misguided, short sighted self defeating this opinion is.
As much so as 'Defund The Police' since it ultimately does more harm than good. The sooner that lesson is learned, the sooner more lasting progress can be achieved.
21
Many years ago I, a white lesbian educator, was invited by an African American gay police officer to help with training new cadets at our major city's police academy. We, and an African Caribbean gay officer, helped the cadets acquire the skills and understanding to address with respect situations like same sex domestic violence, anti LGBT hate crimes, etc. The African Caribbean officer's same sex domestic partner had been a police officer who was killed by a perpetrator after pleading for backup from fellow officers and getting none because he was gay. The man who invited me to do this work had also been in life threatening situations without backup because he was gay. The police that NYPride is banning from marching in uniform may have similarly been victims of life threatening homophobia. They are of all races and genders. Their identity as out LGBT police requires courage, and having LGBT police is just as important as our need for women police and police of color. Do all police need to act competently and work to overcome racial bias? Yes, definitely. We also should remember LGBT police have dared and risked much, just as many of us have broken barriers in our professions, neighborhoods and families by being out as LGBT. There are attorneys who have hurt us, doctors who have hurt us. We do not ban them from marching under a banner for their profession. Why should we ban LGBT police in uniform from celebrating their pride? I disagree with Roxane Gay.
51
So, you’re saying ban the police oppressors from Pride. If that is a good and sensible and realistic idea, then all businesses, governments, etc would have only female leaders and employees because men are the oppressors. And we can’t have that.
5
Ms. Gay must be living in a perpetual State of Bliss. The L.G.B.T.Q. Community and the Police can and should support each other. Support breeds understanding. As a Strait man I, unlike too many people, understand that being Gay is NOT a choice. At a Trade Show many years ago I met a Gay couple with a child in the 12-18 Month old range. I engaged them in conversation and found out that they adopted the child. When I asked them if being Gay created a problem in the adoption they informed me that the adoption people were more concerned with the stability of their 10 year relationship and their income than their sexual preference. When I commented positively on this one of the men responded with "Do people actually think that we choose a lifestyle that guarantees we'll be hated by so many people"?
18
So you want to exclude the very people who are best positioned to advocate for the LGBT community within the NYPD? Brilliant.
Shouldn’t you also ban all groups that march under religious banners, since churches have historically oppressed homosexuals?
One of the primary reasons the same-sex marriage movement made such huge progress in a (relatively) short amount of time was its courtship of ALLIES, its expanding of the circle. Addition, not subtraction, changes hearts and minds.
I see nothing ‘ludicrous’ about making peace when significant change and progress, symbolized in part by the Gay Officers Action League, are made. One can acknowledge the painful history of Pride’s roots without continuing to live in the past. One can forgive but not forget. In fact, that’s the only way to build a future.
45
If you really want to know if a law enforcement agency is supportive of the LGBT community, check to see if it has a designated liaison at a high rank and if there are LGBT members in senior positions. All else is for show.
6
@Anthony Tenor What a weak argument. If that were to be true, every religion, creed ,color, "community", organization, industry, etc., should have a "designated liaison at a high rank and if there are .... members" (of that particular group or "community")" in senior positions. All else is for show."
And, just how is that supposed to work?
13
why should one have to show their personal identity at the workplace. being from a certain background or identity does not define you. it is an more or less important part to your identity. but we have fought all those years to not only be seen in reductionary terms such as sex or color or orientation. but to be seen as individuals with rights. now you want to force people to present or be out? none of this defines how you do your job and everyone should act to a certain standard. regardless of background.
1
@bsb
It won't work and is really just another form of discrimination.
You judge people on their merits - not their sexual orientation, religion, race or creed.
Guess the guy from Brooklyn missed that lesson.
Pride has evolved into a celebration where everyone can go and feel good about themselves.
Elected officials were first absent, then later scarce in the earlier years. Now it is almost mandatory for all candidates and electeds to be joining the march and sponsoring festivities leading up to pride. And they even weigh in on how NYC Pride is operating.
In the early years, no New York City or State government employees marched representing their agency. Now it seems that every city and many NY State and Federal agencies march festively regardless of whether they specifically serve or are involved with the LGBTQIA community.
This year NYC Pride has produced a historic controversy. LGBTQIA law enforcement and corrections officers have been asked to march sans guns and uniforms. They have been asked for this courtesy to protect their more marginalized brothers and sisters from feeling unsafe and alienated at Pride.
Asking someone to leave their work uniform and firearm a home when participating in a social event is just not that big of an ask. I am surprised that GOAL and the Mayor feel that it is.
This is not a choice between supporting law enforcement or our most marginalized. It is a choice of whether or not, law enforcement will choose to support their most marginalized brothers and sisters.
7
Uniform police participating is the best way to support the marginalized.
In fifty years of living in New York, I have never once had a positive experience with the NYPD. That said, excluding cops in uniform who wish to march with us seems very Donald Trumpish and bullying and further evidence of a cancel-culture state of mind. "Unite across our differences" is the slogan of the Democratic Socialists of America, and I support it strongly as a way to face fear and trauma. We must fight for the Common Good, and that means fighting with our own smallness at times.
21
As a gay man, I respectfully disagree. Welcoming our police allies does not mean we are "forgiving" past misdeeds. In addition, the mainstreaming of Pride is a sign of enormous progress of our acceptance in society. It's possible to recognize the shameful origins of Pride while celebrating the progress we have made at the same time.
38
There are always conditions being set. By...
Acceptable as well as unacceptable ones. Set by...
Negotiable, as well as not. Set by...
And WHO is IN, and WHO is OUT, will change our enabled,
seeded, nurtured, toxic WE-THEY daily violating culture?
1
The idea that because the "modern Pride celebrations began with a rebellion against the police" at Stonewall. And therefore "The idea that we should now forgive the past and make peace with oppressive police forces is ludicrous" is absurd.
And this is because the police's actions against gays in the days of Stonewall was not due to their personal views, but because they were enforcing the laws that were enacted by society as a whole. And it was society as a whole who at the time very strongly believed that gays were perverted people who must not be allowed to to congregate as openly gay people. The fact that the police also held the views of society at the time cannot be held against them anymore than it can be held against society in general
The other issue is about how some individual police officers act till this day. However when it comes to any other group of people we view people as individual actors and to judge everyone within a group based on the actions of some members of the group, that is to stereotype all members of a particular group, is considered not only logically wrong and an incredibly unfair way with which to assess individual people, it is reprehensible from a standpoint of treating people with equality.
So for a movement that is about equality to stereotype one group of people, simply because they are biased against them, goes against all they claim to stand for.
35
I respectfully disagree. The last pride parade I went to (5 years ago) in San Francisco had a few elements of pride in gay heritage, but mostly seemed like an excuse for underage drinking and hard-core drug use. I am much older than Roxane Gay (she wasn't even born in 1969), and I find it very difficult to believe that she was traumatized by events before she was born. 'And very puzzling that she wouldn't want to be inclusive of people who want to express solidarity with the gay community.
57
Really? I went to pride every year in Amsterdam and a lot of families would bring their kids to it. A little bit of drinking (not underage) but certainly no hardcore drug use. Mostly people on boats dancing and blasting music as they moved up and down the canals. Many of the people participating were allies rather than members. At night the action moved off of the streets and into the clubs.
4
I do think it is entirely possible that a pride experience in San Francisco and in *checks notes* Amsterdam can be somewhat different. how odd would it be if every pride parade experience all over the world and over all time would be the same.
5
Yours is a comparison between apples and oranges. American Pride is expressed differently than Pride abroad. And it's significant that you cite one of the most liberal cities in the E.U.
4
Gay uniformed police officers belong at Pride ...Because we ALL belong !
This deep truth is why the Pride parade exists ... We all belong
As the spouse of a retired NYC officer I remember walking with her in the pride parade years ago. It was an amazing gift of affirmation to be cheered by the crowd and to see the face of her former captain as we walked by holding hands.
At the time is was forbidden to for her to wear her uniform and walk in the gay-pride parade but she did it anyway (uniforms were only permitted in “approved” parades).
It was a courageous act
- out and brown, a difficult combination of attributes (then and now)
She loved begin a cop but was hard work, she was always an outsider to her colleagues which was risky. As a foot-officer in the Bronx she was proud of her ability to know her community and help people during the darkest days of the crack epidemic. She also worked downtown during 911 and struggled with PTSD and lung disease as a result.
She was part of the beautiful mosaic of our great city; in a small way bringing our city closer to its better self, helping the city and its uniformed service people evolve.
Gay Police officers should be embraced as part of what makes us better, part of what makes NYC the greatest of the great cities. Their fight for equality and validation is the same fight, gay police officers belong at Pride.
Pride is a wonderful powerful experience and an enduring Mecca because it welcomes All...
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@Elizabeth
Thank you for this personal story. Very insightful.
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YITZHAK RABIN, ASSASSINATED PRIME MINISTER OF ISRAEL Observed that you make peace with your enemies, not with your friends. The same principle need to be explored when people who are members of organizations should identify themselves at Gay Pride Parades. According to Rabin's observation, it seems that the LGBTQ and Law Enforcement see each other as enemies. The question then becomes, How do they make peace with each other. The writer suggests that the only way is for members of law enforcement to join as citizens as opposed to joining as members of a specific group. So what happens if law enforcement groups wish to show that they are supportive of LGBTQ members? If police departments wish to show support, can entire departments join in the parade? Other groups carry placards. Such as PFFLAG--Parents, Families and Friends of Lesbians and Gays. I think that LGBTQ groups and law enforcement groups need to meet and make peace with each other. Get to know each other as whole people, rather than as members of groups to which they belong. They need to learn how to heal the pain that they have experienced with each other. I think it's illogical to demand that law enforcement persons hide their identities when they're participating in a parade that is predicated upon the fact that people are proud of their identifies, both personal and professional.
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Well I was disappointed to see that my sarcastic response meant to provoke to see how messed up this response would be; but as I review other comments it’s plain that the vast majority of us see it this way.
Discrimination is never a prudent response to anything past or present.
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