Why Some State Universities Are Seeing an Influx

An ancillary effect of keeping the best and brightest at home is that WV politics will become more liberal. This falls into the "be careful what you ask for' bucket.

“There’s always been a distrust in my family of higher education,” she said. Not sure what to do with a statement like that. Combine it with the recent video of the Daily Show interviewing attendees at a trump rally, and you begin to understand why we are in the sad shape we’re in, and the laughingstock of the developed world. I wish these young WV students all the luck in the world. Get an education, open up your minds, and try to keep an even perspective on “left” and “right” politics in this country. When you are exposed to more people who aren’t exactly like you, more often than not you’ll begin to understand them, value them, and yes, even like them.

This is what I see--it's just more of the same, race/class division, plain and simple. The principle seems to apply whether one looks at the liberal private colleges or the most conservative. People want to put their children in the most privileged environment possible for a chance to grab the "gold ring". They will worry about equality later, hopefully, comfortably ensconced on their estates.

With the glut of PhDs from quality programs that has been out there for years, state schools have for some time had faculties that I would put against those in the Ivies any day. They are well published, excellent instructors, and they actually teach. The Harvards, Yales, Dukes, etc are really just brand names now.

I received my under grad degree from my home state university. Nice to see seniors rethinking this option. Now if we could just convince corporations to hire these students after graduation, instead of cutting off college hire interview from only top universities. Too many HR departments employ HR software that chooses candidates from only the top Ivy League Colleges. These corporations are missing out on talented graduates with this discrimination. State Universities must create partnerships with corporations both in state and regional in order to confront these practices. Additional internship programs during summer breaks should be a priority to develop with these corporations. Only then may you create a level playing field for state graduates.

Native WVian here and first gen college student who picked an Ivy over WVU about 20 years ago. I wish the writer would have challenged some of the myths propagated in the article that tell talented rural kids that elite schools aren’t for them. The kid calling Gee from Logan to say he didn’t feel like he fit in at Harvard pained me. Rural kids can and do fit in just fine at elite schools. And my Ivy was even more affordable too than WVU for my family. WVU is a terrific school but my Ivy was a better fit for me, even straight out of the holler.

The quality of a top public state school is probably up to par to those of elite private schools, however, that shouldn't be the primary reason to stay in-state. Going out of state broadens ones perspective at an age when one is learning about becoming an adult, especially if home is a small-town or underprivileged area where values and lifestyles outside of college campuses are destructive. Going out of state might be the ticket many of this kids need. I'm upset that the financial aid at elite public schools wasn't mentioned. For lower middle class and low-income families, the sticker cost is a few thousands or nothing at all.

Readers might want to do a little research on E. Gordon Gee. Just Google his name.

West Virginia is not a state where smart, ambitious kids can find many of the kind of jobs -- or even professions -- where they can truly shine. People have been leaving West Virginia's borders since World War II. I'm old enough to remember in 1960, West Virginia had 6 members of the U.S. House. Now it has 3 House members -- with every forecast of 2020 census showing it will have only 2 House members starting with the 2022 election. The novel coronavirus can people home temporarily, but one day there will be an effective treatment or a vaccine and those students who've stayed home temporarily will transfer to better out-of-state schools.

Close, getting closer...Is there any trend of student interest in going to schools where they can live in parent's home and drive to class? Dorm life seems like the craziest part of "back to school." A big "re-sorting' in the fall could see students staying much closer to home, many more at publicly-funded state schools and community colleges, attending in-person or on-line classes, depending on what develops, virus-wise, over the summer. As a recent Times op-ed put it, to think kids will observe distancing rules in dorms is delusional. Parents who offer them up for such an experiment and administrators who open dorms are delusional at best.

Read THE UNSETTLING OF AMERICA by Wendell Berry. Going away for the sake of going away does not take into account the benefits of staying in your own community. While there is not one answer for everyone, our culture tells us that leaving is always better than staying. It's not. So many college kids are homesick and have a really rough time transitioning. There is nothing wrong with staying close to home if you like it there. And no, it does not make you 'insular.'

As a fifty-something man who works with many recent college graduates, I have seen a change in 'bragging rights' since my youth in the 1980s. Back then, an inexpensive school or graduating in 5 years was a source of embarrassment. Now, when a young person announces they finished college without debt because of wise choices they have a different sort of prestige. I hear young people talking about taking the basic courses at community college, living a for a few semesters with the parents, and working while taking classes as a badge of honor. The fastest way to look old in a room of under early twenty-somethings is to not recognize the prestige of choosing to graduate with the smallest debt possible.

People thinking they're safer in red states might not last long. Both Kansas and West Virginia have increasing cases the past couple of weeks, per Monday morning's NYT US Map page. West Virginia is having the third exponential looking spike. Kansas has been noted for some of the worst behavior re things like ignoring closings and ignoring mask wearing in the early days. If we have a weather related case acceleration in the fall and/or winter, what seemed "safe" could easily turn rather ugly if bad behavior persists. Somehow, I don't see college as a place of patience and self control socially.

I retired in 2014 after a 43 year career as a librarian and library administrator, most recently as library director for 12 years at Slippery Rock University of Pennsylvania. Most of my career was spent at public universities, and over the years I marveled at the quality of the education you could get at a place like Slippery Rock, if you took full advantage of the opportunities provided. One of the things that make many public universities special is the institutional commitment to teaching, above all. Some places, so-called 'public ivies' want to compete with the top-tier institutions for the most accomplished students. In some cases, the schools develop a schizophrenic identity, where the professors, often recruited from Harvard, Princeton and Yale, try to find ways to get out of teaching so they can pursue their own research. You can have a culture where teaching, especially introductory courses, is for losers who can't attract grants to administer or other excuses to avoid classroom duty. It doesn't have to be this way, but it happens. Slippery Rock University naturally encourages its faculty to engage in research and to contribute to the development of knowledge in their fields. However: teaching is paramount, and you find many course offerings taught by great professors who enjoy teaching and are motivated by being in the classroom. Ask about the culture of teaching and learning at the local state university and you may be pleasantly surprised.

The reason not to stay in WV for college has nothing to do with the quality of WVU and everything to do with meeting peers and mentors who did NOT grow up un WV. If you can’t get out this year, do something else until you can. I spent a year of college in WV because of an incredible scholarship package and what promised to be a great books seminar program. I left after a year because it was clear the tiny honors program was the only bright spot on a campus full of mediocre minds under the tutelage of fellow mediocre minds. I learned a lot that year, but not what the curriculum intended. The scholarship wasn’t worth it.

This article sort of gives the lie to the welter of articles that have run in The New York Times in recent years about the unfairness of the college admissions process. Demographic shifts, economic trends, and a growing sense that traditional four-year colleges and universities are not equipped to educate students for the new economy have all combined to lower the number of students enrolling in recent years. That means that it is the colleges and universities who are competing to attract students, not the other way around. Yes, the Ivies and other "elite" schools can boast about their extremely small acceptance rates. But leaving aside a small handful of "competitive" institutions, students are in the driver's seat. Any high school student in the United States with passing grades and halfway decent standardized test scores can get into just about any college or university they choose.

Perhaps is Gee was paid a little less there could be funds to help support in state students. Gordon Gee has a long history of going from University to University to up his salary. He has no real vision of higher education. He knows how to work the levers of state government to mainly increase his own salary. He is the last think higher education needs. I watched him work the state government in Colorado without any real vision and in my view hurt the secondary campuses.

I think that it is a common failure to keep gifted students close to home...whether it is states trying to keep students for financial reasons or families for emotional reasons. The contacts and exposure top students get from going to the nation's most elite universities can only help their families and home states. It is nothing but selfish to insist on keeping talented students tied to familial or geographical apron strings. Let them fly and they will bring you up with them! They will expose elites to their perspective and world view. Do not be parochial. It hurt you as well as the student.

So much for the re-arrangement in the deck chairs on the Titanic. The problem being ignored is simple: Cost that translate into outrageous prices, student debt, and long term consequences for consumers. Nothing will matter unless we cut cost of education down dramatically. Outsource sports, libraries, IT, dining, living, recreation. Integrate highly scalable MOOCs, online teaching options. I really do not need students in a circle, talking about their feelings, paying at the rate of top rank psychotherapy, to learn about eigen vectors. An instructional video students can watch as many times as needed - does a far better job. There is a case to be made that opinions and feelings are meaningless unless anchored to a sound understanding of underlying theory; which must be learned painstakingly and often over long periods of time. I have never seen a job ad which said: 'wanted, applicants in touch with feelings and opinions without established merit.' So why celebrate it in college? I will turn to my republican friends who try to put me in my place by saying immigrants like me should stay home. Well then, kindly fix the causes of an outcome you don't like: the country's top talent (scientists, physicians, engineers) are overwhelmingly recruited from overseas. How about making STEM free? That should take care of the problem. An influx of MAGA hatted students packing heat - in advanced physics electives because their minds are terrific, might produce a better country.

New Jersey has traditionally sent so many highly qualified college students to prestigious out of state universities because the state has been stingy about funding higher education and limited the number of places available at it's own state universities. As a Rutgers alumnus, I find it strange to hear that our college administrators are suddenly trying to keep students in state. Why don't you put your money where your mouth is?

"Don't cross that border" isn't a ringing endorsement for staying in the state. The best thing college did was to show me another world: people who had traveled, or had been born elsewhere. Suddenly, Colombia wasn't just a place on a map.

The University of South Carolina seems to be very popular with students northward to New Jersey. With COVID-19 cases skyrocketing, especially among the younger age groups, and the governor adamantly against any strict controls, what message is being sent to prospective students?

When you're a post-doc looking for a faculty job, you apply everywhere, so the candidate pool (and faculty) at WVU, Georgia Tech, Oberlin, Illinois-Urbana, and Chicago is probably about the same. Similarly, they use the same textbooks at all of these schools. Why should you go to a more expensive school in the Northeast if the good you're receiving (education) is essentially the same?

The inconvenient truth is that these red states do not suddenly have a competitive edge. The best and brightest have long fled red states for blue for perfectly valid reasons. They flee because they can, in fact, get better educations and have brighter futures and higher-paying job prospects in states with less anti-intellectual, sexual and racial bigotry, and willful ignorance. If students stay in red states to go to college over the next year or two, it will only be because the country is in a deep recession and their families can’t afford out of state tuitions and other costs. When economic conditions improve, the red state brain drain will resume because nothing of the fundamental reasons for people fleeing has changed.

"But she has butted heads with her grandfather .... “There’s always been a distrust in my family of higher education,” she said." Ms. Beatty's grandfather is right; knowledge is a dangerous thing, if you fear change. Dr. Gee's effort to get more West Virginians to go to college in West Virginia may simply help get more West Virginians into college, period. That is a good thing, and a service to the state.

It’s quite unfortunate that the person charged with drawing a diverse group of students to WVU is named George Zimmerman. They should consider going by a nickname. The Times should also add a clarifying note that the person quoted in the article is not the infamous person by the same name.

Many flagships, including UW, now offer much need-based financial aid that covers tuition for instate students whose families earn less than the median state income. It's another way to keep top-performing students in state. But for too long, my state ignored that top students were leaving for out of state schools that offered generous merit and/or need-based aid. My daughter received zero contacts from UW when she was in high school a few years ago. I'll spare you the accomplishments and test scores, but let's just say it was slightly offensive to her (and more to me) that her own flagship could care less if she went someplace else. So she did. She received need-based aid from a top SLAC that brought our cost down to what UW-Madison costs.

As if the danger is any less if a student attends an in-state school. Our state university's plan is to send all the students home at Thanksgiving. I've already told our kids that until they test negative, they will have to quarantine in their rooms with masks after they come home. There will be absolutely no weekend trips home while they're living on campus. Even with all of the associated issues with remote learning, it would be better for them to continue through fall semester than for them to come home at Thanksgiving after three months of living on campus. I just don't understand how this is all supposed to work. My son has been assigned to an engineering dorm this fall with another student in his program, and four of his five classes will be taught on-line. His university meal plan with be take-out because the dining hall will be closed. So in essence we're spending a boatload of money on room & board just so he can be stay in his room all day and eat meals at his desk. Geez, he can do at home! My daughter lives in an on-campus apartment, sharing living spaces with three other students, all of whom are in different programs. How on earth are they supposed to limit their potential exposure? In-state? Out-of-state? Doesn't matter. None of this is a good idea.

Super smart kids should have full-rides to their in-state schools and it appears WVa is making in-roads to doing that. Example: My friend's son in Idaho was a 4.3 GPA student (4.00 plus extra college classes), and the in-state flagship school offered very little in scholarship money. Both his parents went there and the son was strongly considering it. An elite out-of-state private school came in with the big bucks and made it cheaper than the state flagship school, so he went there. Colleges often sit on their endowment/captial campaign money instead of using it for scholarships.

I am currently a Cal Poly San Luis Obispo senior and a former UC Berkeley freshman. UC Berkeley creates too many barriers for students to gain entry into Computer Science: - Many of the lower division classes I needed for computer science were either filled to capacity or closed. - GPA admission requirements were recently increased. Several years ago I transferred to Cal Poly and have not been disappointed: - Cal Poly's CS classes have less than 40 people, while at UC Berkeley the number tends to be well over 100. - Employers seem to like Cal Poly students a little more (than UC Berkeley students, for example), because Cal Poly students learn by doing. - Every person I talked with has had (seniors) or will have (juniors) an internship done/lined up for the summer after junior year. - All of the seniors I talk with have a full time offer or plan to make a startup after they graduate. CalPoly SLO has a very good reputation in engineering. It does not have the research chops of the grad school at UCB, but the reputation of the undergrad education is actually better. (UCB has a reputation for underserving the undergrads in engineering, because all the faculty time is taken up with the large number of grad students.)

It is positive to see some students passing on the enticing image of those brand name schools. Undergraduate study is not so different between the brand name schools and most public universities. What is helpful for those students is exposure to others coming from different cultures and views. With few exceptions, flagship universities in all states offer a wide worldview and excellent academics at a far lower price tag.

I hear the cost argument often when it comes to middle class and lower income students but the number they should be evaluating instead is the ROI of the degree and future earning potential. Elite universities have more affluent students and job and networking opportunities resulting in much better job placement and higher career earnings. If this is your goal, valedictorians in West Virginia high schools would be much better off going to highly ranked out if state Ivy League or similar universities which will almost certainly offer them very generous scholarships. Just looking at the lower sticker price of WVU is short sighted.

I graduated from a new and therefore small campus of the University of California and went on to get a master’s and doctorate from Harvard. I worked part-time all the way through college and graduate school to supplement the several scholarships and fellowships I received. I winced when I read about the young woman from Parkersburg who was class valedictorian but didn’t even apply to MIT or Carnegie Mellon or Harvard because she was scared off by the costs. Since forever the top colleges have gone to great lengths to provide scholarships and other support to promising students who otherwise would not be able to attend. Did this woman’s high school not have college counselors or anyone else who could provide even minimal guidance about such a basic issue? I quite understand that current and prospective college students are reviewing their options in light of the many negative impacts of coronavirus. However, talented students should definitely not be deterred from applying to top schools because of financial need.

This article is rather strange. Linking WVU to Harvard, Yale, Duke and Notre Dame is a bit of a stretch. And as public flagships go, it’s small. What about Tennessee? Many of its high schoolers flock to Ole Miss. Has that trend held? What about the large midwestern publics- Wisconsin, Illinois, Michigan? Students in those states travel between them quite a bit, especially because they extend in-state tuition deals to regional students. What about California? Has the decision of the Cal State system to go online only nudged those students to go out of state? I am interested in what happens in WV and I love the fact that the president has called admitted students. But as an examination of a trend, this story doesn’t work.

I spent my first ten years in West Virginia, the only Jewish kid in the elementary school until my brother started and one other family moved to the neighborhood. I moved to Cleveland and then went to Ohio U, only 40 miles from that childhood home. In a state like Ohio the public colleges are diverse and I met people with many different backgrounds. I worry about the schools in a place where a major reason to stay near home is to promote an insular world view. I applaud the young woman going away for grad school. If she eventually returns home she will have much to contribute.