“It’s something you get used to,” Mr. Poynter said.
Well , living in the Red state Rebel South has always been hazardous to one`s health if they are dark skinned. In Jim Crow times they would be returned to slavery by convicting them and putting them on a chain gang.
America , your civil war continues and Trump is pouring gasoline on the fire.
9
Interesting opinion piece. Certainly wasn’t an objective news story,
57
The narrative of Ferguson has been "an unarmed black teenager was killed by a white police officer". Has everyone forgotten that this all started when Michael Brown robbed a convenience store? Does anyone remember the video of his roughing up the Korean store owner? Unless one thinks the police officer's testimony was a complete fabrication, he was attacked by Brown while sitting in his police car.
I have read the reports that too many small municipalities in the St. Louis area derive too much of their income from court fines, and I agree this manner of funding cause inequities for the poor. It does look like this problem has been addressed, although maybe more need to be done. There probably needs to be consolidation of the smaller towns.
I'm in agreement with all the comments that point out that driving too fast, expired plates, expired registration, etc., will get you pulled over. There's only racial profiling when there is a difference in outcome between blacks and whites after the car has been pulled over and the officer then knows the race of the driver.
76
Pulling people over is an inherently dangerous task for police officers so it’s doubtful they do it on a whim or because they want to hassle minorities.
Maintain your car, have insurance, and don’t do stupid things while driving. You’ll do just fine.
62
@EGD
If I were driving without insurance or with a suspended license or with traffic tickets that I hadn’t gotten around to paying, I’d be especially careful not to do anything that would cause a cop to pull me over.
But maybe the cops have noticed that, in some places, drivers who seem far more careful than the other drivers around there tend to have something seriously illegal in the car, so that the cops look for a pretense to stop the car.
11
I am sympathetic to the problem of DWB. That said, I am puzzled by people failing to appear in court, which leads to more problems and fines, not to mention continuing to drive with a suspended license. Many people are compounding their problems.
70
“The overwhelming majority of the pull-overs that I’ve made in my career, I didn’t know who the person was that was driving the car,” said Chief Armstrong. Chief Armstrong is Black.
Many of the cases cited involved seem to include speeding and driving without a license. Those are choices, not due to racism.
Many cases involve vehicle defects. If you're poor, your car is more likely to be old and have a bad headlight or tail light. So you're getting ticketed for defective safety equipment, directly related to poverty.
It's easy to say, "Black people are poor because of racism." But poverty directly correlates with education. African-Americans are not generally successful in getting an education.
Looking at the results for New York City, African-Americans are failing to get an education. The mayor is not racist, the chancellor is not racist, the vast, vast, majority of teachers are not racist. Funding is equal between all public schools in the city. Lack of education brings about terrible consequences for people.
Please NY Times, focus some attention at home. Have a detailed look at why Black kids are failing in NY schools, when other 'minorities' find such amazing success in the very same schools.
79
Check out the crime and murder rates in St. Louis and see who most of the perpetrators are and that might explain the numbers.
51
No surprise here. America has a long way to remove historical toxicity of racism against African-Americans.
11
I am a long time reader who spent my first 50 plus years in New England before moving to North Carolina seven years ago.
I can’t help but notice the absence of your reporting on racial profiling in the overwhelmingly white suburbs of Boston, Hartford, New York or Philadelphia. I don’t believe that you’re reporting fake news, but I do wonder why issues pertaining to race in these highly segregated areas of the country command little attention from your newspaper.
While Ferguson and other southern cities need to be examined and held accountable for fairness in policing and all things related to racial equity, I’m just hoping you’re holding other areas of the country to the same standards.
21
As a retired police officer who stopped vehicles for traffic violations as part of my job, here is a simple question. How can the police know that they are stopping a black driver when they see De'Shaun Bunch's 2000 Lexus LS 400 on the road? The article makes clear that Mr. Bunch's vehicle has tinted windows. Have you tried identifying the driver of a vehicle with tinted windows lately? It's hard to see the driver, much less determine her/his race. At night it is virtually impossible for the police to know the race of the driver of a vehicle prior to contacting the driver after pulling the vehicle over. Of course racism exists among police officers, just as it exists in the general population. But the idea that racial profiling is the main reason black drivers are stopped by police is a fallacy. The profiling that I observed by fellow officers was of the vehicle, not the driver. For example, if you drive a vehicle that has a headlight or brake light out, or a cracked windshield, or has expired plates, etc., you are more likely to be stopped.
117
We all would like equal justice when it comes to racial issues. We all agree that we need to have an open discussion about these things but the one item that is not allowed to be discussed is the high rate of Black crime. Equal justice requires equal behavior. When I watch my local news each night, almost every crime seems to have a Black face behind it. One cannot be called a racist for noticing this fact. I firmly believe that if the crime statistics were more in line with the proportional percentages of Blacks in a community, driving while Black in Ferguson or anywhere else, would not be an issue. At the very least, it must be part of any dialogue on racial equality.
34
When I first moved to France 16 years ago I spent some time in Paris before moving to Provence.
The first thing I noticed on the streets of Paris was the police profiling young Arab looking men for stop and search checks.
After talking to some of the young looking Islamic men it was clear that this profiling was constant any time they ventured out into the street.
It reminded me of New York police profiling young black men for stop and search or the London police also profiling young black men for the same reason.
These human rights violations are fruitless as statistics show that the profiling reveals very few law breakers and serves more as a form of harassment.
Since I’m white and old almost no one pays attention to me on any street in any city!
18
The conclusion may well be true — it wouldn't surprise me. And it's outrageous if true. But the comparison in the article does not show that black drivers are pulled over more inappropriately than anyone else.
The criterion for a statistician would be this: How do police stops of one group compare to stops of another group *having a similar rate of traffic violations*.
It's possible to prove almost anything if you're not familiar with the field of statistics.
27
"Equality may be a right, but no power on earth can turn it into fact." --Balzac
2
The Socratic irony is palpable throughout this piece - multiple black drivers stopped while actually - you know - breaking the law.
Not a shred of an argument is presented to suggest any of the stops are or were racially motivated - countervailing evidence that a racially balanced police force is acting according to the law is downplayed or dismissed outright.
Maybe a modest modification of the headline to something like "The Pitfalls of Driving with a License, Insurance, Registration or While Committing a Traffic Offense"
While it doesn't roll off the tongue quite so nicely - it is certainly a great deal more intellectually honest.
67
Suspended license, broken taillight, tinted windows, unpaid tickets, ignored court dates...wow, what a pattern of discrimination!
70
“As a black man driving a 2000 Lexus LS 400 with tinted windows, De’Shaun Bunch said he was a prime target. He said he had been pulled over about eight times in different municipalities in St. Louis County over the course of two years and was in court in Ferguson recently for tickets he had received for speeding and driving without insurance.”
With the tinted windows, it’s pretty hard to see what the driver looks like.
Perhaps he could have gotten a cheaper car so that he’d have enough money to buy insurance?
And as a black man driving a 2000 Lexus LS 400 with tinted windows, he could try not speeding.
52
@Thomas Martin As a nw yorker who recently got a 27mph speed camera ticket, for SPEEDING on the entrance to a highway ramp below grade level with fencing and a 12' high wall which is adjacent to a school which has a overpass road, I find it disingenuous of you to say, try not speeding...
3
@Thomas Martin As a New Yorker who recently got a 27mph speed camera ticket, for SPEEDING on the entrance to a highway ramp below grade level with 8' high fencing and a 15' high wall which is adjacent to a school which has a overpass road, I find it disingenuous of you to say, try not speeding... and buddy, any 19 year old car is available for $500. Or free. living large, not in any state... Ticket magnet? +++
3
@Rob Cooke
Mr. Bunch describes his car as “a nice car”, and it looks pretty nice in the picture. I’ll bet he paid more than $500.
I’ve gotten 2 speeding tickets in almost 40 years of driving. One was totally legit, and the other was driving by a school at 30 mph on a highway with a marked speed of 30 mph. The cop said that since there was a school I should have known to drive 15 mph. Your ticket sounds like very similar baloney, and yeah, there are things like speed traps.
Lady Bracknell would say that the occasional speeding ticket may be regarded as misfortune, but that being pulled over 8 times in 2 years looks like carelessness.
16
It seems that except for the broken tail light all other reasons like driving without insurance or without a valid license are significant offenses.
The man driving the "nice car" could afford to buy it but not afford insurance on it?
The woman who keeps on getting tickets now rides as a passenger with a black driver who it appears has not been ticketed so far. Is it possible that she is just a bad driver? All of us know people who are genuinely good, law abiding citizens but are just terrible drivers. Could she not be mandated to take a driving test to see what she keeps doing wrong?
I am convinced that "driving while black" still happens but the instances cited here suggest that black drivers who are less mindful of rules are adding to this statistic.
35
In an ideal world the Police would interrogate people, but not according to race. In the real world, most street crimes are committed by black people and therefore, they become the focus of law enforcement agencies.
Attempts in London to eliminate racial profiling have seen an explosion in street crime, muggings, stabbings are at an all time high. So, racial profiling is coming back and we will see a drop in crime, not for the first time. These are facts, inconvenient but facts nonetheless.
The prisons are not filled with South Koreans, Japanese, they are mostly filled with Black people. If the police are racist that wouldn't explain those numbers.
Blaming the police for doing their job is not the answer. The black community needs to take a hard look at what the causes are.
35
Stop playing the victim. Own up or it will never change.
37
I've been pulled over 20 times. I've received one speeding ticket and two fix-it tickets. All the other times, I was pulled over because of profiling. I've been stopped while jogging in my own neighborhood. 15 of the times the cops either had guns drawn or had a hand on their gun while talking to me. My wife, who is white, has been pulled over once.
It makes me angry to have my life put in danger. I also know that no cop will ever be held accountable for killing me. My life means nothing in this country.
19
There are two types of discriminatory law enforcement.
The first, which is now rare, is to charge minorities with offenses they did not commit. With respect to traffic offenses, because of the adoption of dashboard cameras and body cameras, this is becoming less and less likely.
The second, which appears to be prevalent, is to favor white persons who commit offenses with either disregarding the violation or letting the person off with a warning. This appears to be where the problem lies.
And, it is self-perpetuating to a large extent. When the officer runs the driver's license and finds a prior history of offenses, the odds that a charge will be brought increase.
Historically, the New Jersey state police used to follow cars being driven by Blacks on the Turnpike until they could document a traffic violation. They would then stop the car and search for drugs. And if they found drugs, everyone in the car would get charged. The whites with drugs in their cars usually had no involvement with law enforcement.
17
Are they being stopped more frequently for the same indications? Or are legitimate indications for being stopped distributed unevenly?
Without answers to those questions, that are difficult to obtain, we won't know if this is prejudice or not. For example, is a car stopped for not closely tracking the
center of a lane, which might indicate intoxication, more frequently with a driver of one race than of another?
21
I think the reason cited make it clear most people are getting pulled over for bogus reasons just because theyre black. Cops routinely make up speeding charges and their isn't relly any centralized database where ppl can see if their license is suspended so how would you know. Just classic institutionalized racism tied to ticket quotas. Seems the law helped, but municipalities are still trying to raise as much revenue as they can by targeting minorities.
6
I was pulled over for the 1st time in my life, & told it was because I “might have a stolen my registration sticker”. When I questioned their illegal search of my purse they said “what if you have a gun?” They also said they recognized my passenger and they believed my license plates were stolen.
This all sounded like grounds for suspicion but unusual to stop a gray haired Asian woman in a 15 year old Corolla wagon... until I realized my passenger was a dark skinned Puerto Rican - on his 1st visit to SF. He kept his answers short, eyes front, while they harassed him & I was not allowed to ask questions while they rummaged thru my bag. After they called in my car, they hurriedly returned my purse & literally sped off before I could get their badge numbers.
I was shaken after this threatening ordeal, but my friend told me it was common to be stopped as a suspect because he looked black. He advised me on how to behave, etc. - in other words, at the age of 60, I got “the talk” that all black boys get.
My belief in the police as being in service to people has completely changed since being at the receiving end of unwarranted suspicion. I was pulled over for driving a black passenger. I don’t think this happens to blank limo drivers because that would play to stereotype.
19
“The overwhelming majority of the pull-overs that I’ve made in my career, I didn’t know who the person was that was driving the car,” said Chief Armstrong.
----------------------
Perhaps, Chief Armstrong. But, for whatever reason, I have been stopped without probable cause (or followed for miles waiting for me to give probable cause and, then, often stopped before the end of the jurisdiction, either way).
I don't consider myself served or protected.
13
@vendorz Yes, I've witnessed this. It's was extremely frustrating for the 'black' female driver of the vehicle I was in. I noticed all of the other vehicles around us were driven by 'white' drivers and the San Antonio, TX Police vehicle dodged and moved through a lot of traffic just to sit behind her for a while - it was remarkable! I really wanted to have the driver and the officer pull over so I could find out why, but I thought better of it. Yes, boys and girls, this does happen, and I imagine this could turn quite ugly quite fast.
16
We incarcerate minorities at a greater rate than whites, and then use this as justification. I can’t count how many times I’ve heard my Conservative friends claim, “If they aren’t more violent then why are they most of the prison populations?”
13
@Victor, Because they commit more crimes.
21
OK. I think that poor people cannot afford to have their cars fixed or buy insurance more often than rich people. Since Missouri has more black poverty than white poverty you are going to have a disproportionate number of black motorists getting tickets if you just look at the raw percentages.
At the same time, the police often have the discretion of giving a warning for things like broken tail lights, etc. It would be a much more interesting if someone could parse out the real offenses - no insurance or speeding 15 over - from the trivial ones which deserve a warning. I drive between 8 and 9 miles per hour over the speed limit. I have never ever been stopped for doing that here in California. I wonder what the racial makeup would be of people ticketed in Missouri (or here) for speeding between 5 and 10 MPH.
Rgrds-Ross
9
@Ross Salinger [[OK. I think that poor people cannot afford to have their cars fixed or buy insurance more often than rich people.]]
If you can't afford to maintain or insure your car, then you can't afford to drive. It is a privilege, not a right.
17
The reason for the disparities is probably the same as the reason why blacks are disproportionately killed in police shootings. SEE https://www.researchgate.net/publication/334633566_Officer_characteristics_and_racial_disparities_in_fatal_officer-involved_shootings?mod=article_inline
Researchers from the University of Maryland and Michigan State University concluded that racial disparities in police shootings stem from racial disparities in criminal behavior and not from police bias. “We did not find evidence for anti-Black or anti-Hispanic disparity in the police use of force across all shootings, and, if anything, found anti-White disparities when controlling for race-specific crime.”
“One of our clearest results is that violent crime rates strongly predict the race of the person fatally shot,” write the authors. Moreover, “reducing race-specific violent crime should be an effective way to reduce fatal shootings of Black and Hispanic adults.” More minority cops might help law enforcement build trust in certain communities, but the “data suggest that increasing racial diversity would not meaningfully reduce racial disparity in fatal shootings.” Minority officers are no less likely to draw their weapons on minority suspects.
39
I have found if one is polite, not carrying a weapon, using lights and or blinkers, obeying the speed limits, radio on, but heard within the confines of the car. No drugs or other controlled ; substances in the care..The police will allow you to proceed..BUT if one of the aforementioned is not followed..oh boy..just obey & act within the LAW and The colors of black or white will not matter..Not every stop is based on race.
25
I was stopped while all you that listed was followed - except my radio was off. Interestingly, they accused me of “possible” theft (of my registration, my sticker, then my license plate) but they zeroed in on my “black” passenger (he was actually Puerto Rican) saying he “looked familiar”. At the time I was showing him the sights - my friend had just flown in from NYC. It was all pretense and harassment.
14
There's no data displayed in the article to articulate the motive or reason for the racial disparity. And that's extremely important because racial profiling is unlawful and there would need to be better officer training and/or HR actions if that relationship could be linked. It may also simply be that more 'white' people are pulled over in predominantly 'white' neighborhoods and 'black' people are pulled over in predominately 'black' neighborhoods, which leads you to the conclusion that it's not an 'evil intent' at work, just simply the composition of that particular community that the local police are policing.
BTW, I've personally witnessed driving while black while being a passenger in the car. A practice that should be halted post haste.
3
As is crime in general, where African Americans top all other racial groups in criminal activity, could it be that they are driving in an unsafe manner, driving with lights off, not stopping at a stop sign or some other infraction? Could it be in Ferguson where African Americans outnumber all other racial groups significantly that it is logical based on this fact?
42
I live in a minority majority neighborhood and often drive on a road that can be downright frightening. Cars in bad repair, speeding, changing lanes at high speed without signaling, windows deeply tinted beyond the legal limits, broken tail lights, and other cop bait. I often ask “Where are the police when you need them?” Usually tending to the frequent accidents.
Hard to feel sympathy for most of the examples you cite. The people have more actual violation - speeding, driving on a suspended license, no insurance, etc - than I have gotten in a lifetime. And then they fail to pay the fines or show up in court.
They really have themselves to blame. There is a level of irresponsibility that should not be blamed on discrimination but on their own actions.
115
@Parkbench - agree ..just follow the laws
19
Maybe their socioeconomic status has some influence on car repairs, broken taillights, no insurance, etc...
12
@Parkbench
[[There is a level of irresponsibility that should not be blamed on discrimination but on their own actions.]]
When trying to figure out your station in life, it's better to first internalize rather than externalize.
What could you have done better or differently?
Recently, a motorist behind me was driving with her brights on. When she pulled up next to me at a light, I mentioned it to her.
She said, "Yeah, I know. But one of my headlights is burned out."
We were stopped in front of an auto supply shop.
14
"African Americans accounted for 52.5% of all homicide offenders from 1980 to 2008"
- US Department of Justice
Since African Americans murder at a rate that is WAY WAY disproportionate to their demographics, perhaps they also do things that warrant being pulled over (broken tail light, speeding, etc) at a rate that is also disproportionate to their numbers?
Racism isn't always the explanation
78
"In Ferguson, the disparity in traffic stops of black drivers has increased by five percentage points since 2013, while it has dropped by 11 percentage points for white drivers."
I'm so tired of these statistics given without context. I lived in Ferguson for 15 years and still do a lot of work there. If more black people are being ticketed, it's because the entire North County area (where Ferguson is located) has seen a dramatic increase in black residents and a steady outflow of white residents, especially since 2014. More black residents = more black people getting tickets.
Also, I would invite this Kansas City columnist to actually drive in North County and see how safe he feels. Not because he's "driving while black" but because speeding is rampant, stop signs are routinely ignored, and many drivers are unlicensed, uninsured and simply uninterested in following the law.
89
@shstl
[[Not because he's "driving while black" but because speeding is rampant, stop signs are routinely ignored, and many drivers are unlicensed, uninsured and simply uninterested in following the law.]]
Can we have the author respond to this comment?
17
@shstl I used to live in Ferguson, I was pulled over all the time for no reason other than I have a nice car. I live in Hazelwood now.
It never happens. I don't get pulled over needlessly any more. Ferguson was caught letting white drivers go, but ticketing black drivers.
15
@shstl
It's the same thing here in the city of St. Louis in terms of the speeding/running red lights & stop signs/ unlicensed & uninsured. Last year a woman was killed by one of these drivers.
I wonder what Mr. Bunch thinks should happen to a person who fails to appear in court and continues to drive without insurance. Driving is a privilege, not a right, and his behavior suggests he thinks otherwise.
23
Note that a study of New Jersey Highway Patrol, intentended to prove racial profiling, actually found that it was impossible for the officers to see what race the driver was. Instead, the study found that black drivers really were committing more traffic violations.
Not every racial disparity is an artifact of racism.
92
It's unclear that there is any story here. The African American police chief doesn't seem to think so. Black drivers might be pulled over at a greater rate for any number of reasonable reasons. They may drive older cars that are more likely to experience a non -functioning tail light. They may drive more in high crime areas where police are more likely to be looking for suspects. They might commit more infractions. Etc. It's also a little weird that this piece features a guy who drives a car with tinted windows. Do the cops even see him when they pull the car over?
To be sure, this may be happening because the cops are more likely to target black drivers but there's really no evidence of that here. The idea that the mere disparity of stops shows anything is just silly. At a minimum, this piece badly needed a hard nosed editor who might have asked questions like those above, or even more basic ones like, how do the cops know the race of the driver? For example, are black drivers more likely to be pulled over when they are driving toward the cop (when presumably the officer has chance to see the driver) than when the driver is pulled over from behind when presumably the cop can't see the driver. It would not surprise me if black drivers are being targeted more by the cops. There's just nothing in this piece that makes that case.
57
In order to prove discrimination, you would have to prove that black people were being stopped for infractions that white drivers were getting away with. Absent that proof, I will simply believe that black people are stopped more often than white people for the same reason that black people are jailed more than white people: because they commit more crimes.
53
@KM
The article doesn't prove discrimination, it cites a statistic that might suggest that. Yet, you provide 0 evidence for your conclusion, that there is no discrimination at all. Neither of your points are supported, in fact.
6
@KM That would require police to collect more statistics, and to do so honestly, such as how many people were given warnings instead of tickets, for what offense, and what was their perception of the driver's race. Then you could analyze the stats.
4
Police contacts should reflect the demographics of their service area. Younger drivers get more tickets than older drivers. In Ferguson, almost 70% of the population is African American. The pupil population in the Ferguson School district is 90% African American, so the African American population is considerably younger than the white population in Ferguson.
It is also important to remember that most white people object to using the criminal justice as a revenue source.
13
Talking about discrimination only makes sense if it's known that white and black drivers commit traffic infractions at the same rate, have the same amount of vehicle defects, have the same percentage of positives on record checks, and spend the same amount of time on the road. These variables are pretty obviously not equal and the article provides no evidence at all that they would be.
36
Nothing will change for a long time because while there is a nationwide call to stop these discriminatory patterns, the day to day life of police officers are still consequence-free for being discriminatory towards black people and black people still have little or no effective ways to legally retaliate or defend themselves against it.
6
THIS SAYS A LOT MORE THAN WHAT THE AUTHOR IS IMPLYING:
"As a black man driving a 2000 Lexus LS 400 with tinted windows, De’Shaun Bunch said he was a prime target. He said he had been pulled over about eight times in different municipalities in St. Louis County over the course of two years and was in court in Ferguson recently for tickets he had received for speeding and driving without insurance.
“I’m a black man and I’m driving a nice car,” he said. “It’s the same. They were doing it before, they’re still doing it now. It ain’t changed since Mike Brown died.”
"Mr. Bunch, who works in a shipping and receiving warehouse, said he had skipped previous court dates. He finally decided to show up after getting stopped about a month earlier. There had been a warrant for his arrest because of the delinquent tickets."
So Mr Bunch breaks the law numerous times, gets busted, fails to show up for court dates...and blames it on racism.
75
This would be evidence if we knew how often this person complies with traffic laws.
But we don't.
2
An unusual article that does not meet NYTimes standards.
Speeding, driving without insurance, driving on a suspended license, delinquent tickets....you should certainly expect to be pulled over.
This article alleges but does not provide support for its underlying suggestion that the high rates of being stopped are unrelated to anything other than skin color.
49
@AWENSHOK
[[Speeding, driving without insurance, driving on a suspended license, delinquent tickets....you should certainly expect to be pulled over.]]
Especially with the use of automated license plate readers.
It's the same technology that cities use to find people who are eligible for being booted for unpaid parking tickets.
11
“I’m a black man and I’m driving a nice car,” he said. “It’s the same. They were doing it before, they’re still doing it now. It ain’t changed since Mike Brown died.”
Having a nice car and you know, speeding and not carrying insurance.
55
It’s the red state of Missouri folks; that’s all you need to know.
5
Beyond ratios of black and white, age needs to be taken into account. As a resident of Ferguson, it is a fact that the white population tends to be middle age and older, the AA population tends to be much younger - teens and 20's. This age group pays higher insurance because they speed more and are more reckless than older drivers. This is very relevant to the discussion. It should also be noted that none of the people interviewed said they didn't deserve the tickets. They just weren't happy they were caught.
There is no problem with "Driving While Black in Ferguson". If you break the traffic laws in Ferguson, or anywhere else in the area for that matter, you should expect to receive a ticket. Regardless of race.
57
I do believe that black drivers are probably stopped more often when they haven't really done anything to warrant the stop. News stories and investigations have shown this. But I am struck by how many of the drivers quoted had outstanding fines and histories of multiple violations. For these, there was a reason they were stopped.
17
No mention in the article of why the drivers were being pulled over. No mention of the violations resulting in tickets. The author doesn't even claim the violations are incorrect. This is completely one-sided. The icing on this slanted cake is the anecdotal story of the driver willing to cease driving in order to avoid tickets. I guess changing your behavior to not be in violation of the law wasn't an option.
49
I don't understand. If the drivers of color have tickets for traffic violations that are for valid reasons, are they just bewailing their circumstance because they got caught? If more drivers who are black are being caught, wouldn't the logical thing should be to become a law-abiding driver taking responsibility for your actions, or lack of action?
79
@Alexander Brooks-Major II
That’s what I don’t understand. The one driver they gave as an example admitted he’d been speeding and didn’t have auto insurance.
Articles like this need to be clear: Are Black drivers being pulled over for no reason and given tickets on trumped-up charges? That’s what the article headline seemed to imply. If so, that’s a travesty and needs to be stopped, immediately.
If it turns out that Black drivers, (or Croatian drivers, or Japanese drivers ) for whatever reason, are being stopped in greater numbers because they have a greater number of violations, then I’m not sure what the issue is.
42
@Alexander Brooks-Major II
You clearly DON'T understand, because your comment is classic victim-blaming. The evidence strongly suggests that police still single out drivers of color for aggressive enforcement. Anyone who drives a car in America knows that a police officer can always find something to ticket you for. Failure to keep right, failure to keep left. And on the highways where police tolerate speeds higher than the official speed limit (thereby conveniently giving themselves the choice of who to pull over) you become the anomaly if you choose not to speed, drawing attention.
No, the logical thing would be to ensure, through policy, training, and termination if necessary, that our law enforcement officers are not using their positions of trust to persecute segments of America based on skin color.
21
@Alexander Brooks-Major II
No, it's that white people who are breaking the law are less likely to be stopped.
I live in St. Louis and have observed that in areas of predominantly black residents people do not drive over the speed limit. In predominantly white areas driving over the speed limit is common. The first time I noticed (almost 20 years ago) it was perplexing why everyone drove so slow until I realized the areas where this occurred were dominated by black drivers. It was startling and disconcerting then...and still the norm now.
Another observation, if one has an older car and/or one in disrepair, they are also more suspect. This disproportionately targets those in poverty, who are more likely to be people of color.
30
"Higher rate is automatically discrimination."? That's just standard liberal propaganda. Maybe they need to be stopped? I see many black drivers on the road each day, who are speeding, following too close, changing lanes recklessly and nobody is stopping them..
52
@pkvls that is some excellent anecdotal evidence, but the data likely shows otherwise. If both white and black drivers are inclined to have active infractions on their licenses at even a comparable rate, the fact that the vast majority of those hauled in to court would indicate that there is still a disparity. Black people may not be more likely to have an open ticket than someone else, but they are far more likely to be pulled over and then be processed for whatever is outstanding.
It's a similar concept to marijuana, which is smoked by white and black people in close to the same numbers, but black people are the ones who are consistently arrested, charged and incarcerated as a result.
I honestly don't know if the data backs up the 'rate of white or black drivers driving with infractions', but the correct conversation here is not that these people are guiltless, but why does the system so consistently apply different standards to people of color?
12
@pkvls and I see many more white drivers who are doing the same. Please don’t try to say black people are worse drivers than white drivers, that is racist.
10