For an article about proper spelling/use of accent marks, shouldn't it spell the word in Spanish for soccer as "fútbol"?
Editor here:).
[See "What’s more, “futbol” is one of the most important sports in Mexico: the one with the most followers and the one that’s most widely seen."]
Very interesting! I love learning new things about grammar, and I appreciate your attention to these details.
Question: In one of your responses, you said, “Those mistakes were representative of the lack of care put into education over all.”
I thought “over all” should be “overall” in this instance. Which is correct here: one word, or two?
Speaking of accents, how about Mexico? I can't make this keyboard put the accent over the "e." Same thing with Panama.
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'I can't make this keyboard put the accent over the "e."'
If you don't need to type a lot of Spanish, the simplest way to get special characters into a document with an English keyboard is to use copy and paste.
The Spanish Wikipedia is an especially convenient source of characters: https://es.wikipedia.org/
You can search for "mexico" to get the article on "México", and "panama" to get "Panamá".
I have that trouble with German on my English keyboard. I have memorized the 'alt' code for the four letters with umlauts. That i find easier than cutting a pasting. My phone I just swipe the space bar and get a German keyboard.
The only trouble with that is I get German auto correct when I type in english....
French, German, Turkish and others have accents and other diacritical marks to guide pronunciation.
The nyt needs more help apparently.
I am an Ecuadorian, a student and teacher of language by training, and a stickler for grammar in both English and Spanish. I commend Ms. Chavira on her effort, but I am puzzled by her acceptance of an “optional” accent on “solo”. Solo and sólo are two different words. The first means “alone” and it is an adjective. The latter is an adverb meaning “only” and “just”. Monosyllables, like “si” and “sí” are accented depending on their meaning, as she states. Here is another set: “aun” means “yet”, “aún” means “even”. I hope the discussion will not become arbitrary in any way.
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The FMF, or Federación Mexicana de Fútbol, is the governing body for Mexican football. On it's website it uses an accent on the u in Fútbol. I did notice that its Facebook page does not include the accent on the u in Futbol. So the accent controversy continues. Is it an accidental accent, an incidental accent, or a fundamental accent?
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In accordance with Spanish orthographic rules, a word stressed in the penultimate syllable or paroxitone that ends in anything other then a vowel, s or n, must mark the written accent. Hence "fútbol".
Hi Ben! The FMF uses the accent mark following FIFA's guidelines. However, almost every Mexican says «futbol», not «fútbol». ¡Saludos!
Fútbol has an accent; sólo with the accent is a shortcut for the adverb solamente. I'm surprised at these lapses. By the way, when did fútbol stop being balompié, the real Spanish name of that game? I guess the grammarian doesn't know everything. I don't claim to know everything either.
"... when did fútbol stop being balompié, the real Spanish name of that game?"
Tell us where you learned Spanish, because that will tell us what you mean by "real". :-)
BTW, sometimes *both* are used together, as in this book title:
"Fútbol y cine: el balompié en la gran pantalla" by Carlos Marañón, Ocho y Medio, Libros de Cine, 2005.
Hi! You can still use «balompié», however, «futbol» (in Mexico, Guatemala, Nicaragua, «fútbol» in Argentina, Spain, Uruguay) is more used. Since 2010, you can write the adverb «solo» without accent mark (at the «Ortografía de la lengua española»). Saludos.
Paulina Chavira in a reply:
"In Mexico, ..."
"It is a different case in Argentina or Spain, .."
Expanding on the "futbol" vs "fútbol" comments -- in general there are numerous Spanish dialects, with different pronunciations and vocabularies.
See, for example, the 2333 page "Diccionario de americanismos", which appears to be on the shelf to the right of the big "Ñ" in the first photo.
The accent mark in Spanish has 2 distinct purposes. One is, as noted, to distinguish words like si (accent) and si (no accent), the first meaning "yes" and the second meaning "if". But the wider usage is to indicate where the stress falls on words that do not conform to the Spanish rules of pronunciation. For example, the rule is that in words that end in a vowel, the letter 'n' or the letter 's' the stress falls on the penultimate syllable. In all other cases it falls on the last syllable. That's why words like "nacion" need an accent on the last syllable to indicate the stress on 'ion'. Otherwise, the normal stress, according to the rule, would be on the first syllable.
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It's really quite simple in most cases: 1) if a Spanish word ends in a consonant except for "n" or "s," the accent normally falls on the LAST syllable, unless there is a written accent, e.g., "futbol" without the accent would be pronounced "fut-BOL," which is incorrect. Instead, "fútbol" (FUT-bol) as it should be pronounced.
If the word does end in an "n" or an "s," (or a vowel) the accent falls on the next-to-last syllable, unless of course there is already a written accent mark on the word; e.g. I live in "México" (accent mark already there and pronounced "MAY-hee-ko." If the accent mark were not already there, the rule would cause the country's name to be pronounced "May-HEE-ko."
2) As pointed out in the excellent article, and thanks to Ms. Chavira, some Spanish words use an accent to distinguish two words with the exact same spelling but different meanings; e.g."si" (if) and sí (yes), or "tu" (your) and "tú" (you).
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Doesn't futbol have an accent too?
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According to the RAE (Real Academia Española), both are correct. However it is m humble opinion that fútbol is the more common form. So The Times gets a pass on that one!
Why, oh why, do announcers insist on calling athletes named Pérez Pe-REZ?
Nobody says Go-MEZ for Gómez or Lo-PEZ for López.
Not that hard to get the pronunciation right.
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I agree! Or Sanchez.
On another note, "Quiñones" rendered as Qwee-no-nes.
I learned Mexican Spanish and was taught to emphasize the second to last syllable. When a word followed that rule, no accent was needed. Only if it differed, or made a new word (si vs si -- sorry keyboard has no accent mark) would the accent be needed. Therefore "futbol" is correct since the second to last syllable is what is emphasized. Should I be using accents on every word?
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Words ending in l don't get the stress on the second-to-last syllable (hence "animal" and "árbol").
There's another step to the rule. Words ending in consonants other than n or s will be accented on the last syllable unless there's a written accent. Think pincel, cuartel, etc.
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As a wild guess, "fútbol" has an accent because (1) it comes from "football" and as a foreign word needs the accent; or (2) it was originally written "futebol" with 3 syllables, as in Portuguese, because in Spanish you can't end a syllable with the "t" consonant.
But someone authoritative ought to answer the question asked by most commentators.
M
Great article. Good for you Paulina Chavira! I love it when grammar, Spanish and sports intersect.
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In languages that use them (e.g., French and Spanish) it has been common practice for centuries to omit diacritics on capital letters. If you look at all the pictures included in this article, and indeed all the jerseys in this case, the letters are in all caps.
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Correct, GT. The eager young editor has merely steamrolled over classic useful rules of typography.
It is common typographic usage NOT to use accent marks in uppercase. The reason is pragmatic: the letter already occupies the space; a diacritical mark could touch the line above or below. (The same rule applies to a large initial capital letter, called an art cap or drop cap.) Granted, the back of a jersey has only one line, but the name should be lowered.
Headline from Le Monde (Die is a town):
A Die, trente ans de lutte pour l’hôpital et sa petite maternité
("In Die, a 30-year fight for the hospital and its maternity ward")
"A Die" means "in Die." The first word in lowercase would have been "à." Lowercase "a" without an accent means "has." But there is no confusion.
Another one:
Eviter les pièges à touristes à Paris, le carnet d’adresses du « Monde »
("To avoid tourist traps in Paris, an address book from Le Monde")
In lowercase, the first word would be "éviter."
Many rules have been forgotten now that everybody can type into a computer. You do see more accents over uppercase letters, but it's a mistake. When someone insists, it's best to increase the space between the lines (called leading) there's an ad like this on the same page of Le Monde as the first item above.
The accents will now offend the eye of anyone who is scrupulous about typography while reinforcing inaccurate usage to the rest. The shirts should be discarded and new ones printed as before.
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Not for centuries, only since the invention of the typewriter, where every additional letter increased the cost. On the manual typewriter I first used, there was no digit 1; you had to use the letter I instead. Before typewriters, accents on capital letters were standard in both Spanish and French, as they now are once again.
#117errores
fútbol not futbol
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Now if only Andres Cantor would stop yelling GOOOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLL. Famous, but annoying.
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Fútbol, for goodness sakes, fútbol.
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Cabe preguntarse si la redactora de la versión castellana de la Dama Gris ha contemplado restaurar los dígrafos "ch" y "ll" al abecdario.
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Estamos in acuerdo. How many people know that "k" and "w" are only used in foreign words and are not really part of the normal Spanish alphabet? But ch ll, and ñ are for a total of 27 letters.
If we are going to emphasize being correct about accents, then the word "futbol" should have an accent over the 'u' ! It is a Spanish word.
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Apreciada Beatriz: Lamento decirte que estás equivocada. Fútbol es un extranjerismo, o sea, una palabra "prestada" de otro idioma, en este caso el inglés--"Football." E igualmente es un nombre apocopado, derivado de la denominación oficial de la Federación Internacional de Fútbol Asociación--International Association Football Federation en inglés. Hasta que yo sé, el nombre Fútbol Asociación tiene su origen en los diversos ciudades, pueblos y aldeas ingleses, cuyos habitantes empezaron a formar "asociaciones--es decir, "clubes"--de fútbol hace por lo menos un par de siglos atrás.
A propósito, siendo bostoniana, ¿serías tú hincha de las "Medias Rojas?"
Excellent article. It should be noted that Spanish has a regular orthography that require accents for its integrity. In Spanish you don't have to guess how a word is to be pronounced if accents are properly used according to the rules for their use. But I'm afraid, by the way, that there is an accent missing in the article: "fútbol" requires an accent! And I still distinguish between the adverb "sólo" and the adjective "solo".
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Proper names in Spanish don't have to follow spelling rules. It's ok to spell Hernández or Hernandez or Hernandes.
Dr. Willy Azarcoya
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Actually no. Hernandes is the portuguese version of this last name, and "Hernandez" without the accent in the a would indicate that the word should be pronounced HernandEz. since is actually pronounced HernAndez, according to -the very simple and logical- Spanish ortographic rules it must be written with an accent on the "a".
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I've never heard anything like this.
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Times: "... the Association of Academies of the Spanish Language ..."
Let's see how well the Times's commenting system handles Spanish orthography:
«Nueva gramática básica de la lengua española» is published by the Asociación de Academias de la Lengua Española.
The characters used in Spanish include á, é, í,ó, ú, ñ, Ñ, ü, Ü, ¿, and ¡.
(That list is from the English Wikipedia article on "Spanish orthography".)
Curious. I thought it was fútbol, not futbol.
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Tenía la misma pregunta. And how about Twitter's "Who to follow?"
Until I learned Spanish, I didn't realize that the late Chicago White Sox baseball player Orestes (Minnie) Minoso was actually named Miñoso. Minnie, Cuban-born and one of the great ones, spent his entire long career in America with an inaccurate last name -- because English-language newspapers in the 1950s couldn't be bothered to add the proper fonts.
Thanks to Paulina Chavira. This is not trivial.
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With this accomplishment behind her, Paulina Chavira should take on the crossword puzzle makers who continue to use the clue "a year in Mexico", then expect the answer "ano" which is, of course, very different from "año".
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Countless English-language crossword puzzle answers ignore diacritical marks just as they do not distinguish between uppercase and lowercase, although the clues do. It's part of the deal.
I would love that to happen. Long live the "ñ"!
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Enjoyed the article. Shouldn't "futbol" as it appears in the story have an accent on the first syllable? Or is that a wider discussion about the use of accents in an English-language version? Thanks.
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