Ithas become almost impossible for me to meet friends for coffee and conversation because all the tables are filled with people on their computers. It’s really sad if you consider that coffee houses when first started we’re intended for conversation. Where I live that’s nearly an unrealistic goal. In addition, many remote workers often take up adjacent seats with their gear. Maybe it’s too much to expect to find a WiFi-free cafe and I hate to sound like a Luddite, but I think it’s a much less civil world when being digitally connected supercedes face to face, heart to heart talk.
It's unfortunate that restaurants have to implement such measures. Folks these days don't socialize as often as older generations and, contrary to what some believe, this young generation are workaholics and tend to choose their career over their social life. My dad is 50 and frequents local restaurants, socializing and having drinks with his friends. He's never working when he's not at the shop. I used to wonder how he had so much time on his hands. It's because he's too old to care about his job more than he should.
I went into a coffee shop in Madison WI talking to a friend. We got stared at but all the people hunched over their laptops. It's not a workplace! go to your office or work at home if you have to have silence.
A restaurant , café, coffee shop is a shared public place, not an extension of your bubble.
3
Here in Russia Anti-Cafe is very common and honestly it's perfect for working! The concept is that you pay per hour/minute and in return you get unlimited free wifi, tea, coffee, and snacks. It's not the most amazing coffee but it is great for working. More traditional cafes almost never have people working at them, but anti-cafes are always full of students and people having meetings.
3
Where I am in Brooklyn (South Brooklyn specifically) coffee shops do not exist. Fortunately there are great diners and bodegas that serve cheap, strong coffee that keeps locals happy, but these businesses don't survive off coffee profits. I have been wanting to start a cafe for the past two years, but I know it would not be able to compete with Starbucks or Dunkin Donuts franchises in the area. The reality is that today people are glued to their devices. Laptops are not as huge of an issue as cellphones - stand on the street anywhere in New York City and count the number of phones being used as people cross the street or walk down the block, unaware of their surroundings. The real issue is that everyone expects that wifi is included when going to a local cafe so that a customer can purchase a cookie or cup of coffee, and are allowed to stay connected for as long as they like. Cafes and coffee shops are no't just public places but commercial businesses owned and operated by individuals. With this in mind people should just think if a business doesn't want you online then you can walk out and go to another cafe that offers wifi. It's that simple.
So if they see a customer sitting there for a couple hours reading a book or writing in a notebook , do they politely ask them to put it away? Yeah right. This is about neo-ludditism.
3
Really, it boils down to their shop, their rules, but I don’t see this as a Luddite thing. When was the last time you saw someone scribbling away, sprawled across two tables? For hours? Free WiFi is nice, but it isn’t a substitute for anyone’s home or office.
2
As a barista, unless my boss wants me to do something about it, I don't particularly care. This is a relatively small theater in the war of cafe seats and spaces in NYC. I do take exception when people cause danger by charging phone and laptops in dangerous positions. Before we had a painting blocking it, People used to plug in to an outlet that was at chest level (5'8" is my height). If any of us weren't paying attention at the time we could've knocked down people's macbooks. People try to charge their phones in high traffic hallways or on our condiment bar which, if you know the general state of condiment bars, is not a very smart place to put it.
It's just a rule of public spaces, anything goes, even if it annoys other customers or us workers. Most places are loathe to establish firm boundaries because a customer must be made to feel that they are important, in control, etc. or they'll badmouth you on Yelp, which is now weaponized against businesses.
2
I have been a dedicated customer of my favorite cafe, Biggby's in East Lansing, Michigan. I have been a customer since the place began. Biggby's, like the cafe's described in the article, got the wi-fi bug and my cafe changed. Its not just the office remote workers, but East Lansing is a College town, home to Michigan State University, so we get bot the the office remote workers and the College students turning the cafe into a work space and a library. it is disgusting!!! If you want a quiet space to work or study, stay home or go to the library. The cafe is not your personal work space and not your private wi-fi provider. The cafe is under no obligation to cater to your personal or work needs. That is not the purpose of a cafe. cafe's are there to provide coffee, drinks and a social environment of personal interaction with other human beings. Any cafe owner who ditches the wi-fi and plugs is 5 star in my book. Thanks to this remote worker/student obsession with turning any environment into their personal work space is the reason I no longer go to my cafe, or any other. Sad but true. Why should I have to be quiet and not have a conversation with my friend, because my conversation disturbs the personal work environment of some laptop junkie?!? So yes there do need to be cafe rules and edicate. If you can't handle it stay home!!!
2
There are ways to deal with this problem. One is to allow free WiFi access only by password and only for a limited amount of time; the password comes only with a paid order. After the first 20 minutes either a 20 minute time-out after which you pay to use the WiFi at a substantial rate. The freeloaders will hate it, but they are bad for business anyway (and they are just the sort of entitled people who would give a bad Yelp review when told to pick up and move after taking a seat for three hours on a cup of coffee. )
1
There is a great free place to work that even has laptops and desktops to borrow, printers, books, publications, music, movies and training classes. It's called the PUBLIC LIBRARY.
4
If libraries served food, I think more people would go.
Enoch Pratt Library in Baltimore has a Starbucks
You can have your laptop out and still converse with people.
1
Maybe what needs to happen is that we need two more kinds of cafes, each catering to different clienteles. For example, a digital nomad / remote worker hub that isn't quite the stuffy or expensive "rented office space" and perhaps charges a small fee by the hour or where the fee is waived if you buy something. Another type would be your classic cafe where people go to actually speak with each other. Or, even better, maybe we could have a "third" type for only recreational internet usage, that's not quite an internet cafe or game lounge. There are lots of awesome ideas. It's just about finding a niche and doing the appropriate research and marketing.
1
I think people remotely working in these places just need a bit of common sense - order food, don't hog a four-person table when you're on your own, and chat to the staff every now and then. A cafe is first and foremost a business, then a community space for socialising. An office space it is not.
I have a great cafe nearby where the staff never complain about me taking up a seat to work but I also make a point to go at least once a week for one of their events or some other kind of social occasion.
3
Set up a meter system. Place a SIGN when Entering explaining Rules.
The first cup of coffee gets them 20 minutes. A larger order gets them more time.
Their receipt is time stamped when entering. After their time limit runs out, charge appropriately for the next 20 minutes and so on.
When they leave the establishment they have to pay at the register and the time can be calculated there. OR If a waiter/waitress collects the payment at the table, the time can be calculated.
Now somebody Pay me for my brilliant idea.
If you want to be alone with your technology..STAY HOME...
so ridiculous to get all suited up and sit in a business with your little computers and headphones.....Why go out?
1
This is what happens when people from the suburbs, who were weaned on Starbucks, come to the Big City and bring all their bad suburban habits with them and don’t understand when those of us who have lived in big cities all our lives try to teach you some coffeehouse etiquette; for instance:
Order before you claim a place to sit. If the café is crowded, don’t throw your jacket over the last available chair and then stand in line behind eight people.
Coffeehouses have traditionally been the collective living rooms of Bohemian neighborhoods and the people in the coffeehouse are what we City folk call “neighbors”. Now, I know that Mommy told you not to talk to strangers but really, it’s ok; just think outside your virtual life and realize that coffeehouses are the brick-and-mortar version of a chat room.
It’s one thing if you are working on your novel, we will respect your privacy. But if you want to hog a couch just so you can write code for four hours straight, then don’t be surprised if you we treat you as an anti-social jerk. If you are on speaker phone with your venture capital partner discussing your secret plan to gentrify the neighborhood, then don’t expect to be immune from our ire.
Sorry kids, but this is the way we do things in the Big City. YOU ARE ON OUR TURF and if you don’t like it, then go back to the suburban shopping malls where you belong.
One final thing: calling a coffeehouse a “coffee shop” identifies you as an unsophisticated rube.
1
Why is it OK to write a novel but not OK to write code?! (I'm a writer not a coder myself, and I don't see the difference.)
1
When someone is very loud in the cafe I pretend to make a phone call. Usually in a louder voice I graphically describe my bodily functions to the fictitious person on the line - never gets old and always shuts up the big mouths.
3
Former barista here: we used to charge hourly, weekly, or monthly for WiFi. This usually made people irate and they’d threaten to “go to Starbucks”.
I’d kinda just shrug. Cafes aren’t your living room or library. Good riddance.
8
Password should be time-limited, 20 minutes. Available only with a purchase. Once 20 minutes are up, either pay up (for real) or time-out, long enough to make it worth moving on. Order up for lunch? You get 60 minutes more.
There's gotta be an app for that.
1
With a Starbucks practically on every corner in so many cities, (there are 4 within three blocks of where I work) I have seen only two types of customers which frequent those establishments - those who run in for a coffee and pastry and those who set up shop, unload their backpack, and plant their butts for hours, taking up an entire table for themselves. I am always surprised management allows that kind of behavior or at the very least, does not have a cover charge if a customer stays longer than 30 minutes.
1
This article skirts around the real problem. The cost of NYC rent makes it unprofitable for any owner to allow lingering. Rising labor costs, real estate taxes, etc. means pay for your product, consume and leave. Europe has a completely different system, some with no tipping, and as many people have commented, those businesses are closing too. Whether it be millenials, bad etiquette or lack of social awareness, no business can stay in business with this type of behavior. Off peak time, sure. Read from your book, or handle a few emails. Using a cafe or a restaurant as a base to get work done, ridiculous.
5
It's time to install coin operated outlets. Say a quarter for 15 minutes.
5
These laptop people look ridiculous.
And they are stealing from the restaurants by ordering only one coffee in a three-hour period.
5
Laptop workers in cafes are completely irritating. Recently I went to a local place to meet some girlfriends for a bite to eat only to have laptop users at one and two tops give us dirty looks for having a conversation!
Agree, these people should go to the library to work and allow a steady stream of paying SOCIALIZING customers use the cafes.
8
What is going on with those of you who work in cafes - when you could work at home in your pajamas or less; eat exactly what you want; make coffee the way you like it; have the comfort (and irritation) of your companion animals? Are you afraid to be alone? Worse yet, do you think you look cool?
3
I go to Panera for lunch, and can't get a seat, because all the digital workers and students have taken them. So I have stopped going to Panera. I hope they think the revenue from these WiFi hogs makes up for losing customers.
7
Join WeWork. Much better environment. More comfortable seating. Networking with other entrepreneurs. Coffee, tea, goodies, and end-of-the-week beer.
Good grief. These people have made up jobs that they invented so they could work remotely. They should STAY HOME and not annoy the rest of us. Go out to "be around other people" when you are done "working". Like the rest of us do. Or pony up the cash to be your own hot spot. And work in the park. There are "other people" in the park. People whose own social outings upon which you will not be infringing. Here's another idea: to the public library. A place actually perfectly suited for your your laptop-ing. Yes, you will probably have to go to all the trouble of getting something called a library card, but you will helping the library boost its usage statistics, which may translate into a boost into their budgets. So, you'd actually be contributing to society instead of annoying it.
3
There’s no difference between spending 3 hours working or spending 3 hours reading or talking to your friend. I know it changes the character of the shop, but it costs the same.
5
It's not the cafes, it's not the laptop workers IT'S THE REAL ESTATE PRICES.
1
Though there are 5 cafes within two blocks in my neighborhood, I prefer to go to the one with no wi-fi. Why? I can actually get to know my neighbors, have a chat, solve the world's problems, etc.
I don't like the trend of blurred boundaries between work and social life. Even on the bus, people are barking orders into their mobile phones. I call it "second-hand stress" and I don't want it on my commute or in my cafe.
I understand the allure of parallel play (I often just read in a cafe), but making it into a workplace is just wrong.
5
I recommend the local library if you want a place to sip on a beverage (just bring your own or get water from the water fountain) and work on your computer with your headphones in your ears. Our libraries allow covered beverages and as long as you are well behaved, no one will bother you there. Plus there are washrooms if you need them.
Leave the cafes to those who wish to interact and not park themselves for more than 10 minutes past their eating/drinking times.
6
A related but different problem: online workers are often working on clients' sensitive materials on their laptops, and their clients would be less than thrilled to know these documents were being accessed on shared, public Wifi connections and thus quite vulnerable. Of course, clients never know, and those who work at cafes don't give it a second thought and don't care.
If you're going to work from home, take yourself seriously and invest in setting up a home office, however basic, or rent a co-working space. It's sloppy and amateur to schlep your office with you wherever you go. It may feel more professional to work outside of your miserable, messy house simply because it forces you to put clothes on, you're surrounded by people, and you can be seen as a productive and important person who's working, but it's really not.
8
What if they are using a VPN? I don't work remotely, but the idea of connecting my phone to a hotspot even for trivial matters like social media without some kind of protection is rather curious to me.
2
How many times have you really wanted one of the outdoor tables at your favorite local small coffee shop so you can spend a half hour enjoying your cup of coffee and pastry, only to find all of them taken by someone who is obviously camped for hours with their computer? If you are walking your dog and can only sit at the outdoor tables, it is doubly frustrating. It has always amazed me that so many people are completely oblivious to the fact that they are in effect stealing the cafe’s services. I really do think establishments will be forced to implement rules to deal with the people who will always be there to take advantage of anything they perceive as “free”.
7
Leave the dog at home. Not everyone loves dogs. In fact, many people are deathly afraid of dogs. The trend towards taking Fido out to bars and coffee shops is disgusting. Now dogs are even on airplanes! Emotional support dogs! What sensitive plants we Americans have become.
2
Thank God I am not the only one that feels this way. So tired of seeing dogs not only inside stores but at food places. Sorry but I don't want your dog jumping all over me or smelling at my table while I am eating.
I was in Cape Town October 2016 and passed a cafe with an absolutely brilliant sign: "No Wi-Fi - act like it is 1997 and talk to one another!" The cafe was packed.
6
There is a bagel shop near my house with a big sign that hangs from the ceiling that says "NO CELL PHONES WHILE ORDERING". Restaurants should have signs that if you want to have a conversation, take it outside or take your order to go!
4
Mobile worker who needs to poach wifi for free so they can do their job...... ok, does anyone see anything wrong with that picture. If it's your job then spring for your own wifi at home or hey, here's a thought - whoever is employing you might actually supply you with the wifi to do their work. I think having a convenient place to hang for a while is fine but your business is not their business. Their business is coffee, sandwiches and pastries. I think the Wifi should have a 15 minute password change - you must go to the counter to get the updated password.
5
According to this article many self employed people sit and do their work in cafes. It goes on to say that "While some still embrace the home-and-pajama model, a large contingent hits the corner cafe".
The fact is however that no person sits with their computer in a cafe for 8 hours a day, which is what one can assume are the hours that self employed people work on a daily basis. Therefore one can only conclude that the self employed do spend time working at home and one can also assume that they get dressed, as sitting in ones pajamas is not very conducive to productivity.
The more probable reason that the self employed like to sit in a cafe for a few hours is because if one works at home, where he also lives, he is in a state of complete solitude. Its as if the rest of the world is outside his apartment and he is stuck inside his apartment cut off from the rest of the world.
People will go out just for the sake of sitting among people. The shame is that even a half hours worth of conversation is of greater value and benefit than sitting alone with a computer as far as providing an escape from solitude.
1
The irony of all these comments is that I just googled why France is having so many of their traditional cafes going out of business. One of the answers, provided by a French government agency that oversees small businesses and advises them on “best practices” is that their customer base is changing. The tradtional french cafe customer is aging and young people are not going to cafes. The government official suggested the cafes start offering wifi and internet access to lure young people to come to the tradtional cafe instead of...Starbucks(!)
3
Business owners have the right to manage their businesses but prospective customers can walk away from businesses they don't like.
People think they're in their own home at cafes and places like Starbucks. They sit there for hours (food and drink are gone) and they're on their laptops or phones taking up space at the tables. There should be a limit as to how long somebody can sit there. Places that have communal tables were started so that people can sit and talk to each other and be sociable. Ever since cell phones and other devices, they've become unsociable (to me social media is unsociable).
8
it's not the silence that bothers me; I frequently go to a coffee shop on my own with a book. It's that people claim a table and stay there all day. I will sometimes ask if I can share a table (when none are open), and have been told "no" more than once.
8
Anne
If they are sitting at a table that seats 3 or 4 people, I would just smile and sit down. One person does not need to take up an entire table and if they have a problem, tell the manager, especially if the place is crowded.
4
Just respond "nerd!"
Clearly, we should all just stop asking and pull up a chair. What you've described is just rude. That table is not his personal property, and shouldn't be treated as such.
The obvious answer is that a specific purchase also buys the patron the usage of a wifi password for a limited period of time, or perhaps a prepaid card buys the bearer x amounts of coffee and y amounts of wifi time. There's no need to give wifi away gratis - let the McDonalds and airport terminals of the world do that.
5
Reminds me of the many hours I spent at Pete's when I lived in a valley where my air card could not connect to ATT. Made me a loyal fan of the brand. At that time, a decade ago, 90% of the people who came and went were not on their devices, so it was not so deadly quiet, and I simply got used to concentrating on my work.
The latest consumer outrage in Atlanta (at least on my NextDoor Neighbor website) is the number of folks who have had their Apple laptops stolen right from under their fingers as they are typing away, plugged in and wearing headphones. (And this appears to be an Apple thing -- you never hear of someone having their Chromebook snatched from their hands . . .) Starbucks is being blamed for keeping this "under wraps." I have no idea about whether it is "under wraps," but I slightly chuckled as the folks dominating all the seating drives me crazy. I quit going to my local Starbucks because I would love to sit with my husband/friend/daughter and just have a cup of coffee but there is never any place to sit! There may be instances where I need to take advantage of free Wi-Fi but I try to keep my time to minimum and not take up too much space. (And I always purchase both coffee and food items).
2
We should be taking a closer look at the economics of remote work. While this article is focused on NY, look at any big city to see the trend. My town of Evanston Il. has five Starbucks and numerous independent cafes, all full during the day. Many are obviously students in a college town, but the majority seem to be 'professionals'. This is true of Chicago and suburbs. And it's not just the urban cafes, it's the strip mall coffee and sandwich places as well. The laptop people are even starting to bleed into bars that are open during the day. On top of that, the library is full, and the coop work spaces are also doing well.
What are these people really doing and who is employing them? How precarious are their jobs? How much are employers benefiting from not having to create comfortable spaces to work? Should we be troubled that America's workforce is overloaded with aspiring screenwriters and social media management consultants who can't afford wifi at home?
8
I'm a mobile worker in CA and since libraries cut back on the hours they're open, there's really no other choice but a cafe. I'm grateful for that and try not to overstay my welcome.
There's no choice but a cafe? I'm sorry that you're homeless. Perhaps you should find a line of work that pays the rent.
4
The problem now is those of us who want to meet for coffee and conversation often cannot find a table. While it is true that novels and PhD dissertations have been written in cafes, the numbers were much smaller.
7
Alma, those who want to meet for coffee and conversation have no greater right than those who do not...
1
Duffy, I'd argue that in this scenario, they do. They're likely to be there a shorter time and order more (and will surely use less power). Also, they're not earning anything while they are there, where mobile workers are.
3
When I was in Kanazawa, Japan, a few years ago, I went into a Starbucks one evening. Every table was filled with people talking, laughing, having a great time. It was noisy. Unlike any Starbucks I’ve ever been to in New York.
8
As a long time frequenter of good espresso shops from Seattle to Venice Beach to New York and Boston, I typically spend about 15 minutes at a shop. Rarely more than 30 minutes. I often see a very few (the same few every day) that monopolize the good seating for their "home" office. They spread out taking a 4-seat table and spend a paltry few dollars. I see this as self-centered, as they make it more difficult for other customers and strain shop owners. I'd be happy if the shop owner turned off Wi-Fi after 15 minutes use or altogether (unless their goal is to be an internet cafe).
15
I'd like ot share an article i just recently read, it's an interview by a former Star Trek original series actor who portrayed Kt. Kevin Riley(Bruce Hyde). He died a few years ago but after his acting career became a professor of communications at St. Cloud Stae University, St. Cloud Minnesota. The last 2 paragraphs of his interview is of note. http://www.startrek.com/article/catching-up-with-treks-lt-kevin-riley-br...
3
I'd love to see a follow on report of the economics of this for the Cafe owner. A lot of folks have voiced their opinions that it can't be a money maker, but still..... so many cafes have the free wifi.
What's the pros/cons of losing the social customer vs. whatever revenue they DO get from the poachers?
3
It is imposing on the cafe and other patrons for anyone with a laptop to be working away without purchasing food and drink continually -- there needs to be time limits and specific sections for individuals with laptops. A nearby THINK coffee house on 8th Avenue has people parked there for hours, working, without eating and drinking or even looking up to see how they have spread out their laptop, coat to occupy more than one single space. Cafes are losing money on these individuals. And regular paying customers are losing patience. The Laptop Crowd often looks dazed and zombie-fied as well.
15
As a first try, why not have a) café employees periodically circulate and ask each customer if they would like to order, and b) signs on the walls that read: "We love our customers! But if there are people waiting to consume their purchases, please make room for them." Those measures should at least make a dent.
9
I carefully watch the overall situation at the cafe and if the tables start to fill up, I leave. Otherwise, I make sure that I buy a cup (or some food) regularly while I am there.
Gaming the system is so much the problem. That's why we can't have nice things.
9
I work in an academic library that added a cafe, but we are saved by the need of students & faculty to go to classes and cut their own time short. It's a popular spot though.
I was just in Paris and noticed that people aren't on their devices all the time there, and still talk to one another. But I also noticed that there are spots in public where people can use their devices (and charge them). The RATP station near the Musee d'Orsay had tall tables, outlets and I think, wifi. Can you imagine putting something like that in the NYC subway? Cafes in Paris are famous for allowing you to linger over one espresso but then there are zillions of them, at least one a block.
I like to go to a cafe near my campus with a friend and chat. I get dirty looks from the laptop crowd. Maybe you should get some of your friends to occupy and talk throughout the day. Or have book talks, live music or baking/coffee demonstrations. I suspect people don't take their laptops to wine tastings? Popups from your router reminding people to buy more or you'll have to go out of business might do the trick.
I think most Americans just don't want to talk to each other any more. Sad!
9
....bad manners seem to be endemic of the younger generation - no?!
7
How ironic tht those who work remotely, by choice, and who would much prefer not to be in an office - have created de facto offices, often to the detriment of the cafes they have taken over.
Solution? Charge table rent sufficient to stay inbusiness, or set minimum orders. Obviously good manners, consideration for others and respect/support of small business has eluded these freeloaders.
56
Elise - isn't that what We Work spaces are - for people who don't want to work in an office environment?
3
Cafes are where writers work, no? JK Rowling, TS Elliot, Hemingway....
Are cafes now being redefined as fast food or coffee shops, with quick turnover? Eat, drink, and get out in 30 minutes?
18
Let’s see, I have measured out, hmm, measured out my life, my life, I have measured out my life with laptop hours at The Bean, no Starbucks....
They are also where people gather to exchange ideas. This is often done the old-fashioned way-verbally and face-to-face. I see this being pushed out at expense of silent laptop users who are communicating to someone who is not there. Go home and do it. Stop making me feel unwelcome or inferior in some way because I am not "connected".
2
Except these eople don't eat drink and socuialize, they poach free wifi, take over seats that actual paying customers can use. Thats the difference A Lazlo, real writers don'r spend hours every day typing away on their smith coronas in a starbucks.
2
Great, guys. While you're focused on your notebook, rendered oblivious to the outside world by your earphones, someone's probably making a pass at your girlfriend.
1
Just have them stand next to the WiFi kiosks that De Blasio installed on the street. Lol
3
So, if I were to go to one of these coffee shops and just want to read my book while I ate a pastry and drank coffee, would it really bug them that I wasn’t talking to anyone, and more importantly, did not want to talk to anyone? I have a local cafe I go to about 3 times a week, and I do eat lunch there, but I always am either reading a hard copy book or reading on my ipad. I am not working. I don’t want to talk to anyone. I like my solitude, but in the company and ambiance of a cafe. What’s wrong with that?
I spend a lot of time in France, and you would never have this attitude towards what US owners seem to view as “lingerers”. My favorite family run place in Nice has an unwritten rule. Each table gets only 1 reservation per night. If you reserve a table for, say, 7pm, for dinner, then that’s it. It’s your table for the night. A couple can eat dinner and sit and talk, or a single can read with an after dinner drink, until 10 pm when they close. In a Paris cafe, I sat outside next to an elderly woman who nursed a single glass of wine for over an hour while she watched the world go by. Nobody pressured her to leave or buy more.
Maybe the French have figured out a way to make money without seeing “turnover” as more important than their customer’s comfort. The idea of removing the comfortable chairs on purpose to get you to leave quickly is so mean. It can’t possibly be a good business model. What if all the conversation people stay for hours? Will they be chased out too??
28
In France and other European countries that have long-established cafe cultures, it is standard and accepted practice that when you buy a coffee in any cafe, you pay one price to drink it while standing at the bar or another, quite higher price if you instead want to sit at a table.
So it’s easy: you’re charged extra for the use of the table. C’est simple et ca marche.
11
It's a tough balance to strike. You have to pay the rent and salaries, so you have to sell something. Maybe a table charge makes sense for people who want to linger, but that would probably not help the woman who wanted to sit with her wine. You should also serve the community and provide a place for people to gather or be alone in public.
I would not say the French have figured it out because so many cafes close every year. Some can't or don't adapt to new realities. Some might try but still can't make enough money to justify staying in business. It's especially sad if a small town loses it's only cafe.
1
Kate, you’re right that the French charge a lower price for drinks at the bar and a higher price for drinks while sitting at a table. I’d forgotten about that. And Joe, you are right that France has lost a lot of its cafes, especially in the rural areas.
In googling why France is losing its cafes, I discovered many reasons. Ironically, not offering wifi and internet access is one of them. One article said that young people no longer went to traditional cafes because they were spoiled by Starbucks and McDonalds having wifi and fast food, plus the coffee was cheaper.
Another reason cited was that France now bans smoking in cafes, restaurants and bars. People order a drink, stay for awhile, them go outside to smoke and don’t come back. There are very strict rules now in France to fight alcoholism and drunk driving. People still want to drink, so they do it at home. Young people are leaving the small towns to get jobs elsewhere, so the whole town is dying, not just the cafe.
Nevertheless, the attitude that you have “bought” the table for the night persists. Even at lunchtime, the expectation is that you will spend at least 2 hours at the table. If you are a tourist pressed for time, it is really hard to get them to bring you the check so you can pay and leave. And they seem to take offense that you just want to eat and go. In the French mind, table turnover is what McDo is for.
BTW the French cafes doing badly were empty; the problem is no customers, not staying too long.
6
To Mr. Nieto: I read your responses to customer complaints on Yelp. I just wanted to say thank you for taking a stand and not backing down. If I'm ever in the area, I will frequent your establishment (and leave my laptop at home).
13
It makes me nostalgic for those Sunday afternoons spent at a cafe with the Sunday New York Times. I'm pretty sure I occupied the seat for at least 3 hours while nursing a cup of coffee and a bagel.
6
Ironic that right in the middle of this article, twice, ads pops up for laptops on sale.
2
I would not want to be the business owner that is forced to turn away customers in order to support a customer who buys 1 cup of coffee, gets free WiFi, and a place to hangout for a few hours.
At one of my local Starbucks, a guy is there ALL DAY, he buys maybe 2 cups of coffee throughout the day AND goes next door to Whole Foods to buy his lunch to eat in Starbucks! Then he complains when the price of coffee goes up!
10
How do you know he’s there l day? You either work there or you’re there all day?
You think this is bad? You should do an article called "When Laptops and Silence Take Over Your Classroom." Or maybe, "When Cellphones and Headphones Take Over Your Train Car". After, you might consider "When Laptops and Video Screens Take Over Your Airplane Trip". If I had kids I might suggest you cover, "When Laptops and Silence Take Over Family Dinner/A Trip in The Car...
I get my coffee to go by the way...I can't stand being surrounded by preoccupied laptop typing, headphone wearing customers. Reminds me something out of The Stepford Wives or Invasion of The Body Snatchers!
10
"........people were in the cafes at night, revolution in the air".
Back in the early 60s they knew what a cafe was good for.
5
now they are plotting a revolution in new emojis
Funny that cafe owners are having to act like parents. Well, I guess that is society's job anymore since parents are as plugged in, tuned, out, and clueless as their children.
3
Has anyone surveyed the wifi users to find out why they prefer working in a cafe rather than at home? Do they live with their parents? Have annoying roommates? A horrible apartment? If the answer is no to all of the above, it's a bit of a mystery to me why they would chose to work at a cafe. They are obviously not there for social interaction. If I owned a cafe, I would start by trying to understand what drives them in order to decide whether I can design a profit model around it. The bottom line is businesses have to make money and if the laptop users are hogging tables and not buying much - something has to change or the business will go under.
13
As someone who works in a cafe on occasion, the answer is atmosphere and a lack of people bothering me. It is pleasant to be surrounded by people as you work, however at work these people are coming to your desk to distract you with other tasks that need to be done and at home it is impossible to focus as you still need to do laundry, and maybe you should also vacuum....
2
How about no WiFi, so customers can't stay for hours and hours, hog all the seats... A local coffee cafe in SoCall does just that... And, they have a varied clientele, boomers, millennials, moms w/young children, WWII generation et al.. On the other hand is the new Philz Coffee near a college campus, all seats taken by these students, no one else can sit, relax, enjoy a brief downtime...
7
In the mid 2000's, once cool cafe places in Williamsburg,, where future bands and artists met, or you could meet someone in conversation to potentially date, turned noticeably quiet. Zombieland quiet with everyone staring at their screens.
That's when dating offline became next to impossible. Now with smartphones it's all over.
*Note to women (or anybody) who can't figure out why they haven't met "the one" - look up from your screens occasionally. They're probably trying to get your attention.
8
I belong to an Italian conversation group. We meet at local cafes. During the summer, we sit outside but in the colder months we have to go inside. It's like a mausoleum, with everyone totally silent on their laptops. We feel like we are in a library and have to be quiet. We get dirty looks ...for talking in a café!!! What is the world coming to! I wish we lived near the café mentioned in the article that just ripped out the free wifi. Great idea. For now, we just keep talking as loud as we want to and ignore the stares.
13
I cannot tell you how many times I and a friend have stopped at a cafe and walked on because there is no place to sit as it is taken over by people on laptops. Cafe owners don’t seem to understand that they lose other customers & money because of this problem. It telegraphs to people like myself “you are not wanted”. There are many places that I now completely avoid altogether (don’t even go in to get something to go.)
10
It's weird to me that most commenters here are acting like customers invented this. This is a result of what people need to do to live in this world. The woman who ripped the wallpaper, while extreme, is a product of her needs. Assuming she needed her laptop to do work, the relevant question is not: how could she be so disrespectful (and yes, she was disrespectful--not even a question)? It is how did we get to the point where companies are allowed to shunt their costs off on the rest of society by refusing to provide basic work accommodations (in this case, offices) to their employees? Oh, but they aren't "employees," they're contractors who have so much awesome freedom. So, it's fine.
That is to say: this is yet another negative externality of "efficient" capitalism.
9
Perhaps this is territory where libraries can reinvent themselves.
8
I would much rather work in the Rose Room of the New York Public Library. True, I can’t drink coffee.
2
WiFi skimmers who are too cheap to rent a workspace are by definition bad customers. I say shut off the WiFi and toss the frugalistas. Your real customers will appreciate the faster service and more pleasant atmosphere. And they’ll tell their like-minded friends.
10
To go to the larger point, who when why where how was the digital world imposed upon us in the first place. I don't recall a survey asking would I enjoy being hooked to taps and screens all-ways-all-the-time and having every single aspect of my life screened and algebraically vetted and digitized. How I've grown to loathe the word 'algorithm'! How I laugh at the notion of 'interconnectedness'! None of this is going away -- way way way too late for that -- and with bots and artificial intelligence (there's a term for you) the disengagement will only get worse. It will one day be that it's actually inappropriate (and potentially illegal) to address a stranger, much less attempt to engage in some casual polite random conversation.
Good luck to the cafes, where all that 'work' is being tap-tap-tapped away. Thank god I remember a time when it wasn't so.
2
So if I go to the cafe and sit with a book and nurse a large coffee for three hours that will be OK?
2
If I try to start a conversation with you by asking what you're reading will that be ok? Can't do that with a laptop zombie. that's the difference.
Starbucks has forced me to bring my baseball stadium padded seat with me after they replaced many of their faux leather chairs with wooded stools.
I also have a Starbucks list for restroom stops for business trips.
2
It is the right of a cafe to regulate the type of customer they want and how much they want them to spend. Yet it feels a bit unfair to be pegged as a "bad" customer simply for using my laptop. I have spent far more money in such cafes than most of the complainers have. Are they going to ban the annoying job interviews as well? Reading a book? Any lengthy interaction that might cut sales? That ethic seems no more "enlightened" than the one that is being criticized. At least be honest that it is about money, not the "value" of community.
3
People are complaining about people who spread out occupying a table for four and staying for hours so that others can’t sit and getting annoyed when others talk disturbing their silence.
5
“Working” = social media.
6
Americans get coffee culture all wrong. Whether it's drinking coffee
(in non biodegradable cups) on the go or nursing one cup whilst
sitting in silence, tapping away on the laptop. If you go to Europe, you see the cafes with people standing at the bars, drinking coffee, engaging in small talk.
Very rarely do you find Europeans walking around with the ubiquitous,
earth-killing travel cups. Let's do better, folks!
46
I wouldn't say that just because Americans don't enjoy coffee shops in the same way Europeans enjoy them that we have it all wrong. It's just different cultures. While the article paints this broad stroke that all of our coffee shops are overrun with the sound of silence, that's not the whole picture. There are plenty of shops I've been in where there were plenty of people enjoying quality time with each other. Coffee is still a very social drink. Let's be careful not to throw the proverbial baby out with the bath water. That said, I can agree that we can always do better. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
2
Dunkin Donuts has been working hard on figuring out how to stop ordering non biodegradable cups, and tells us they expect to have it figured out in a couple more years.
1
It sounds like a very lonely life.
27
We have become, at the same time, the most connected yet disconnected society. I see the same thing on campus when I come into my classrooms to find students seated around group tables but no one talking face to face - it’s all screens. At times like that I wish I had a jammer.
7
I recall not that long ago that the pure allure of a cafe was the excellent coffee, delicious Danish, and the exchange of ideas, humor and innocent gossip between friends NOT via email, Facebook, Twitter or any other social media device. And if I wasn't meeting up with a friend, I would simply enjoy the ambiance while soaking up the latest in the NYT. Somehow, that same inviting ambiance has changed . . . much to my disappointment.
5
@ Marge Keller Midwest
To your wonderful recollections I dare to add that the allure of a pleasant cafe was smoking. I like a noble cigar accompanied by strong coffee (not to be confused with coffee accompanied by a cigar). :-))
It's a complicated problem. I am one of those "zombies" who "don't interact with other people" at cafes most of the time. I work from home when I'm not on the road, and sometimes I really need to be around other people (not to talk with them -- which, by the way, I do professionally) but just to exist in the world.) And, I have deadlines! So, I schlep my stuff to a local cafe for a few hours to work. I try to be a good customer, am friendly to staff, always purchase food with my coffee, don't let my stuff spread out, etc. On the other hand, I can get annoyed by what might be typical cafe behavior (which I know won't earn me any points here - but hey, I'm going to be honest anyway). Yesterday, working against a deadline at a cafe that was close to my next appointment (and an hour from my home office), I became frustrated when, at 8:00am, a guy picked up a guitar (provided by the cafe) and decided to practice his jamming. I probably had unreasonable expectations for a quiet place to get my work done while also being out in the world. Obviously, I need to work on that. But the good news, I guess is, cafes will continue because so many of us need them ... we just need to figure out how they can work for everyone.
6
Rent office space. The cafe is under no obligation to provide you with free office space.
83
Why are New Yorkers so combative? I'm not asking for anything for free. I'm happily engaging in free enterprise (by buying their wares) and expressing my opinion (and, by the way, being fully accountable for my shortcomings). Jeesh.
2
I hate that this is a NYT pick, and I can't understand why it is, since it's based on the fallacy that I am looking for "free office space." For one, I have office space. For two, I spend money in every cafe I frequent. Mark, PLEASE READ. NYT, don't reward people like this.
1
Repeated studies have shown that an active digital device -phone, tablet or laptop-causes anxiety in those around. These studies have been primarily
concerned about children, but the findings hold also for adults. I can't think
of a more disagreeable environment than the one described in the article.
We have all done our work and I for one do not want to be subjected to others
working around me (or doing social networking for that matter) when I've gone out to a cafe, spent money and just want to enjoy a normal old-fashioned ambience.
7
Suggest cafes tie wifi access to spending.
Something like: First purchase gets one hour. After that, credit 1/2 hour for each $4 spent.
Or maybe just set an absolute one hour limit.
But the problem is not just laptop users. I remember not being able to find a seat at a Penn Station Starbucks after making a purchase. Seats were taken by a group sitting down with a meal from a deli and a young lady talking loudly on her phone, neither of which bought anything there.
Disclosure. About 12 year ago, I wrote an app for my own use in a cafe. Spent six hours there & only bought two cups of coffee. Still runs after two hardware migrations.
2
I tend to not patronize these places myself. I like my own coffee and desktop. But if they provided a bed, I'd be down for that. I'd just need it for eight to ten hours a night. And I'd definitely buy a pastry or two so as not to take undue advantage. But that would save me thousands a month. And isn't that what it's all about?
12
My gripe is when all the booths at Panera are taken up with laptops and study groups during Sunday post church lunch times. We’ve spent $20-30 and need a place to sit. It’s one thing if the place isn’t full, another during the lunch rush.
7
They "need" a place to sit as well. Let the restaurant require a minimum purchase for a table. Whatever. I find it odd that people are offended by individuals with laptops or phones for not "talking," but completely unconcerned that their every interaction in public has become monetized.
This is a byproduct of the gig/remote-working economy. Employers want work done that requires access to the internet but the companies don't provide the workspace and wireless network for these employees. In addition, unemployed people need to apply to jobs via either emails or via portals. If there aren't public libraries nearby these people are going to use cafes for wifi. This is employers externalizing costs at the expense of cafe owners.
22
How about individual, timed wi-fi passwords? When you make a purchase, you get a receipt with a personal wifi password on it. The password expires after, say, one hour. Want more wifi? Buy more stuff.
76
Just go home or go to the library!!!!!!
I love people and I love cafes, but I don't go to cafes to interact with people (unless some pretty girl wants to chat me up - a rare event indeed), I go there to chill, have a great cup of coffee, and maybe a bite to eat. Mostly, however, I go there to unwind and dive into whatever book I am reading or to write the next best seller (soon to by on the NYT list). But, here's the thing, I like being around people even if I am not interacting with anyone; I like their company even though we may not even exchange 'hellos', I like the energy and vibe that great cafes generate - and I recognize that comes with costs: i.e. through my patronage such places thrive, so I spend freely (coffee, muffin and/or lunch) and don't dither for hours. I have been frequenting the same café for years, so the owners know me (we are on a first name basis) . . .
19
Agreed. I go to Cafes to work. That’s the only time I set foot in them. Because I’m required to commute all around town, I don’t have the option of having a set office has a workspace and I cannot go home between clients. Any café that doesn’t accommodate such habits is not one that I have any interest in visiting, ever. Maybe they don’t care about losing my business, but if they do, they should accommodate people and that was like me.
I wonder how this generation is going to reproduce by phone, because they certainly don't have the social skills any longer to court, woo, flirt, or otherwise "appeal" to another human being. I agree with all the owners who unplugged the Wi-Fi. Good call.
and, Good Luck!
74
The rules imposed by the coffee shops have nothing whatsoever to do with promoting "social skills." They are to make money. It's their right, but tying all of this to a "social agenda" is a bit absurd. After all I can listen to music, read a book, or just sit in silence in a cafe. I am not going to have conversation because someone else thinks it is good for me.
1
@ Euphemia Thompson Westchester County, NY
Without a slightest attempt to make fun of religious beliefs, an answer to your question about reproduction by phone might lie in "immaculate conception" or telepathic impregnation. Who knows, these may be feasible? :-))
This seems like a big opportunity for specifically working spaces, with comfortable seating, some food and drinks, and a per-hour fee or admission fee. Then the vagabond workers would not have to keep moving from cafe to cafe, and the regular, social customers at other cafes wouldn't have to put up with them.
26
It's already happening. I just saw a place like that in downtown San Francisco.
1
Set rules and limit time spent laptopping or charge for time after say, 30 minutes for that cup of coffee (consumer use data will figure that one out). Changes along these lines are coming. It's not just pay-to-play. It's also going to be play-to-work.
11
Some of us can recall a time when a cafe - such as the ones featured in this article - were places where one could engage in thoughtful, intellectual and scintillating conversations over politics, art, economics, music, literature - and a myriad of other important social topics --
Students often mingled with professors to engage in spirited debates - occasionally joined by the waitstaff, who were also PhD candidates waiting tables to fund their education -
The famous Hungarian Pastry Shop, in the shadow of Columbia University in New York City, comes to mind - where they still play jazz and classical music quietly in the background -
https://www.facebook.com/hungarianpastryshopnyc/
One can only imagine the reaction a noisy debate about Marxist ideology, Marcel Proust, or the late quartets of Beethoven might receive in one of these sterile so-called "work spaces" ...
42
New Yorkers used to be interesting. At museums, people would look at the exhibits and talk about what they saw. Now, they're concerned with getting a selfie and then staring at their phone.
At theater intermissions, people would talk to strangers around them and discuss the set, the acting, the script, and the direction. Now, everyone whips out their phone to check their texts and social media.
People used to make random connections on the sidewalk and exchange a few words. Now, everyone is staring at their phones.
8
I remember those days; late 1970's till my departure from NYC 1992. Hanging out in Greenwich Italian cafes for hours upon hours late at night. Great times, great people, lots of REAL face to face communicating, exchanging ideas, without the meanness, and wimpy insults, hide-behind the curtain of the internet we have today. "Give me that old time religion".
4
Howard-
you old romantic beatnik you!
You may agree with me that the laptop zombies are part of the gentrification process and that it's not just bohemian cafes that are being gentrified, but Bohemia itself is being gentrified.
1
I am a frequent customer at my local Barnes and Noble cafe. I always buy breakfast when I am there in the morning and lunch if I stay for the afternoon. I never take up more than one table (many customers will take two tables even when the cafe is busy and there are not enough seats). I hate that the bookstore is doing away with its comfortable chairs (as is Starbucks) because I used to enjoy going to both for a cup of tea and to read a book. I also spend money on books and magazines while I am at Barnes and Noble. Customers who abuse the free wifi are making it more difficult for those of us who are considerate. I see many students who have the audacity to bring in food and drink from McDonald's or another fast food outlet and who sit there for hours just using wifi. We should all have good manners but too many people today no longer care.
87
Wow, an actual human! I agree completely and applaud your conscience
1
So you stay there for 6 hours and buy 2 items, taking up space that would typically be used by 2 couples staying 30 minutes who would purchase 24 items.
3
Can no one afford wifi? Get a job.
I need WiFi. Don't try to mess with my WiFi.
If you have a lot of people with laptops then do you know what you have there? A coworking space. React to what your customers are telling you and set up a cheap-but-paid-for room.
It sounds like this whole squabble is over the price of a coffee-per-hour. Set up a coworking room where you either buy something or pay for the wifi / seat each hour.
11
When did coffee houses turn into mini offices? These are not co-working spaces, no matter what some people want to believe.
I'm on the business owner's side(the coffee house owners, that is). Why should anyone be able to set up a cheap-o office space (literally for the price of a cup of coffee)? How is that fair?
38
But they clearly don't want to be co-working spaces. Re-read the article.
2
Once in a Starbucks, I was asked to move so a group could hold a meeting!
3
It sounds to me that the problem is not so much "laptops and silence" as it is the amount of time a customer spends in the establishment. That would be the more logical issue for the policy to address.
People who want to sit down in a comfortable environment and work for 3 or 4 hours should go to a co-working space. Those places generally will charge more than $5 for that 3 or 4 hours.
29
I mostly agree with your comment...but it is both: laptops & slience and the resulting lack of revenue.
2
A team and I did a dive into this problem and came up with a solution: link the amount of wifi time given to the amount spent by the customer. More spend = more wifi. We had customes type the code on their receipt (from Square register) into the web page that the wifi router showed. Then the customer would get between 30 mins -3 hrs of wifi time.
33
The Steep Brew Cafe at Whole Foods Potrero Hill here in San Francisco (i.e., grand central for tech workers before everything moved downtown) used to give out a code that was good for two hours of wi-fi time if you bought something. I went there regularly for about a year and a half (2011-2012) and got used to asking for my wi-fi code.
Then went back in 2014, bought food, and asked for a code... and the cashier looked at me like I was Rip Van Winkle. "We don't give out codes. The wi-fi is free." I don't know if this type of decision is why WF ended up being bought by Amazon, but they definitely decided to stop charging for wi-fi...!
4
This troubles me. All around me I see people only engaged with their tech devices. There isn't much conversation happening anywhere. In a waiting room, where people used to talk to each other and get to know one and other, now everyone has their face buried in their phone, or computer.
We wonder why we are experiencing a societal breakdown. This is part of the problem. It is a complete lack of interaction between people. When this happens, it is easer to become uncaring and much, much less civilized.
To know we have a problem, think about what cafes were like in the recent past. There was a noise problem from constant conversation. It was hard to understand each other at peak times. Now, it is one person to a table, computer at the ready, coffee cup half full, or empty, and the incessant ringing of cell phones.
This isn't how we envisioned our future: uninvolved with others and obsessed with ourselves and our latest tech. Sadly, no one seems to care.
59
Did you read the article? While I appreciate the sentiment, this article is specifically about WORKERS, not just people "hanging out" on electron ic devices
A side effect: when you check out at the grocery store, you stare at the card-swipe unit thingy, waiting for your approval, signature, etc. No more chatting with the checker.
Many of us care. It's just that we are in the minority.
3
Not mentioned in the article is the effect that the laptop crowd has on other customers. It's like being in a library and I'm afraid to talk to my friend because it seems everyone is listening (which I know they can't through the headphones). These laptop zombies actually discourage conversation.
54
Agreed!
2
Good Grief.
Why would you not converse in a coffee shop?
If the laptop zombies don't like it, you can remind them they are not in a library or office space, but a cafe, a place for coffee and conversation.
I wouldn't hesitate to tell someone who shushed me to rent an office space, like an actual business person.
Who cares if they don't like it?
Having recently visited upstate Buffalo, I stopped at two different Starbucks and saw the same thing: radically redesigned cafes that clearly sent a message to laptop malingerers. Not welcome here! The comfortable chairs and tables have been replaced by bar stools at narrow counters, or freestanding, SRO high tables. Upon sharing my observation with employees, they agreed that the idea was faster turnover. Sign of things to come? Howard Schulz has spoken.
17
I was in a few city Starbucks that were like this in the mid-2000s. Some of their locations have probably always been small and bare.
1
I wonder if cafe squatting is a greater problem for cafe owners in college towns or cities with thousands of students. At a favorite cafe--couldn't get a seat because the place was stuffed with students cramming, one to a fourtop table, doing homework, and ignoring the cafe's delicious food. And tables beside an outlet? Golden!
The scene is different at a local indie bookstore--the regulars arrive, grab a cafe table with their drink and pastry or sandwich, and hang there for hours, on laptops or not, reading books in print or onscreen, with lots of friendly chatter among the bunch. It's a lively community of mostly older people, a community that helps keep the store afloat. Cafe patrons also shop the store. Seldom see students there.
15
I remember the days when I could go to a cafe or ride the train home and see familiar faces and eventually they turned into new friends.
The only thing worse than seeing a man and woman sit next to each other at cafes swiping through Tinder looking for someone is actually having to sit next to two people on a Tinder date at a cafe.
13
I met my boyfriend on Tinder. Our first date was at a cafe. Here we are a year later...we go to the cafe together and read and chat.
4
Makes me long for the old Hayes Bickfords in Harvard Square circa 1963. Not even a glimmer in anyone's eye of what would befall just musing and observing others in their natural habitats. Throw in refillable coffee at 15 cents a cup and it was practically nirvana.
13
What Abby means is they both stare at their respective phones together while having coffee and have to repeat everything twice to each other cause neither is paying attention. Ain't love grand.
2
Even when I work out of an office I still occasionally enjoy working from a cafe once or twice a month - for some reason the background noise helps me focus and puts me in a startup hustle mindset.
Here's the thing - I'm sympathetic to the cafe owners. Can we make this work for both of us? How about offering an upgraded faster internet for $5 for two hours? Or having a server swing by every 45 minutes to ask if I'd like another cup of coffee? Or a just a notification on my screen? How about a bar with power outlets so I'm not taking up a whole tables worth of space? Or?
15
$5 for 2 hours? Does that sound like a good business to you?
4
How about you leave your laptop home, go to the café to relax and recharge then go home and work?
6
Some are homeless. Some can't afford WiFi at home. Some are between jobs and or school. Some are lonely. Some left the library due to closure. Some can't work where they live due to some reason or another. Some are travelling. Some are actually enjoying coffee or a snack/meal. Whatever the reason people are using these places for their computers are many. I don't think it is going to change anytime soon.
9
Shut off the wifi. It’ll change quickly.
2
I'm not sure what one can do about all these zombies who go through life plugged into a machine.
During the day, I have my cell phone on, but it's set to vibrate. I only answer a phone call it if I think it's might be something of great importance and only if it's from a number I know. Otherwise, my friends know to text me, and I'll get back to them later.
When I walk outdoor across the university, I plug into to the sounds of the birds and cars and the wind shaking the trees. When I jog inside on the gym track, I never listen to music. Instead, I use the time to think about problems I need to solve. If we are having a coffee or a beer together, I came to be with you, not to play with a machine. Of course, I suffer from a severe disability known as AED, or Attention Excess Disorder.
I see a growing number of university students failing even the most basic courses. When I was a lad, we didn't study all the time. In between classes, we had a bite to eat, or we went to the gym, or we took a nap, or we went for a cup of coffee. On the weekends, we went out for a beer, or went to a movie, or had friends over.
Today, I see students who seem to do nothing in between classes except play with their e-toys. Students walk into class on their cell phones. As soon as class is over and even before the student is out the door, he or she is on her cell phone again. Students get together to talk or study. But each person is always playing with her/his cell phone.
34
Hear, hear, Chris!I treat my smartphone as if it had a landline, meaning I leave it at home when I go out and about (unless, that is, I know I'm going to NEED it). I can't imagine being removed from the world around me — and moreover, denying myself the silent acknowledgment of unknown strangers who are going about their daily business.
1
Sorry, Jay! I accidentally called you by the name of the previous poster. :-(
What is really disturbing, and infuriating, about this trend is that those who are guilty of it have no idea that what they are doing is discourteous, obnoxious, and wrong. No idea at all.
65
It's the age of narcissism. I see it all the time, everywhere. Generation selfie.
3
What kind of person thinks that ripping off wallpaper in a cafe is okay?
78
I really wanted to find out what the follow-up on that was.
4
Why not welcome remote workers and their laptops during non-peak hours, say 9:30-11 a.m., and 2:30-5 p.m.?
9
Just get an old school "No Loitering" sign.
If the laptoppers are still in their seat after an hour, without buying anything, just walk up point to the sign and ask them politely if they would like anything...?
11
At a former job in NYC, our internet connection would occasionally go down and I would have to scramble to complete our daily cash management work to fund accounts, make EFT payments etc.
Fortunately, two blocks up Park Avenue was a Starbucks offering free WiFi. For the cost of a large dark roast, I could get all of our banking done in about 20 minutes. We used to refer to this as “moving to our remote hot site”. Since we were using Starbucks essentially for our own commercial purposes, I kept my time there to a minimum so that I didn’t become one of the laptop trolls highlighted in this article.
9
Yikes! Doing your banking on an unsecured WiFi is like asking to be hacked.
1
We (three adults) walked into a Starbucks on the upper West Side, ordered coffee and sat at a long wooden table to talk- only to receive continual dirty looks from a young woman sitting next to us who, lap top open, was studying for her MCATs. I was about to apologize, then thought,”Whoa, this is a restaurant.” So I smiled and, after a final exasperated huff and puff, she left -perhaps to study at home. Restaurants are okay for study or work when they are not crowded; but their chief purpose is socializing, not test prep.
119
In college I did my studying in private carrels (tiny rooms with doors) in the university’s graduate library. I do not understand how anyone can truly study and retain complex information in a crowded, semi-dark cafe setting.
12
Good for you for staying put! Studying in a loud, public place doesn't make sense. You actually used the cafe for its intended use.
2
Back in the Stone Age when people wanted to study in silence, they went to a library.
8
I guess there are a lot of shameless people out there, because I don't feel comfortable lingering much longer than my purchases last unless there's plenty of space; when I used to work out of coffee shops a lot in grad school I'd buy something at least every few hours even if seating wasn't an issue.
But there's an opportunity here: Co-working spaces. Pay a flat membership for less than it would take to get a fancy coffee every work day and never worry about table availability (or the ethics of occupying them) again. The one I'm with also has swung deals with some nearby businesses for modest discounts for members, most notably a coffee shop where seating is at a premium; the presence of the co-working space both sends more business their way and probably does at least a little bit to reduce the problem of people leeching their seats.
10
People under 30 dont talk or think anymore. They just watch and post.
24
Okay NY Times - how about a reality check...
Coffee shops install Wi-Fi to attract customers. How about a blind study that compares coffee shop revenues with and without the free Wi-Fi? How about the impact of seating - a ten-seat shop vs. a hundred-seat shop?
The article seems to single out laptop users. What about people who use the Wi-Fi from their smart phones?
Also, do people also think it's anti-social to Skype in the same setting?
4
I can never understand why people who go out to a cafe to work-- then put in headphones and do not engage with their surroundings. It doesnt make any senee to me. Why leave home or the office pod?
20
My question exactly.
It's because they know that coffeehouses are cool places to be, but since they aren't cool they don't know how to behave.
If I take my laptop to work at a cafe, the reason is because I want a change of scenery and something to sip on while I work, generally for a stretch of less than two hours before the cafe’s scenery is now what I want changed, I’ve had enough coffee, or both. I spend about as much per hour as someone coming through the cafe to meet a friend and chat, and I’d hope to be able to continue.
How about this? Ban people having someone watch their belongings while using the bathroom. If you are sitting in the cafe with your laptop and need to go, either you pack up your mobile office and take it with you, or staff will close the laptop and put it in a lost and found bin behind the counter while you’re gone. That doesn’t impede people working for short stretches, but people working a full day there would at least be forced to give someone else a chance to grab their seat, if it doesn’t inconvenience them entirely out of doing it.
8
Let's all complain about laptop drones taking over cafes! It's just not fun hanging out in someone else's office/library.
8
Sorry but if you have a business, you need to define a workspace at home or pay for it elsewhere. Hogging a seat in a cafe for hours at a time is not being a good citizen. A coffee and a pastry ought to be worth about 45 minutes max of seat time, not three hours. It's fine to check your email or to meet with clients in a cafe, but to use it as your daylong workspace is just behaving like an entitled brat.
67
Bag the cafe. Just go to a bar.
5
Best idea yet!
A dear friend and I have always discussed a stroll into our local coffee shop, to each plug in and set up an ironing board...
30
These people need to stay home or rent office space. I’d kick them out.
12
Excuse me: you can spend hours using the store's wifi, seated at the their table, enjoying their AC or heat and bathrooms and purchase just a single cup of coffee?
That's not a customer - that's a freeloader.
54
People who ignore everyone around them because they are staring at their phone or laptop are being incredibly rude and should stay home. Buy your own coffeemaker and let those of us who know how to be social enjoy the coffee shop and use a table for food instead of a laptop. Also, if you need to go to the coffee shop for the free internet, you probably can't afford the coffee either.
6
What I've noticed that's much worse IMO, is tutoring sessions at cafes. Super annoying to everyone around them and often they don't even buy a coffee.
19
Not being a "remote" worker other than in my home or hotel room, I find it extremely annoying to go to breakfast / lunch at any one of several bakery / cafe / deli stores only to find no place to sit to enjoy my meal because someone has commandeered a table to spread out laptop and business files to create a remote office for themselves for the price of a cup of coffee or other beverage, long since consumed. Do these moochers realize if they abuse the "free wifi" the business may close and no one wins?
28
I don't understand, and would be interested to learn, why so many people sit in public places to do whatever it is that they are doing on their computers. What's wrong with their homes? Noisy roommates or children? They can't afford decent internet? I really don't get it. At home they presumably have access to all their stuff, their own bathroom, kitchen with refrigerator, a chair of their own choice and maybe their own desk or table, freedom to walk around, take breaks at their pleasure -- what drives them to Starbucks????
38
Well, I’m not one to work for hours at coffee shops, but sometimes I have done some work at them bc if I stay home there are a million things I realize I could/should be doing (vacuum the rug, make phone calls I’ve put off, straighten the bookshelves, etc). At a coffee shop, all that disappears.
4
They want the social stimulation of being in a public space. Depending on your personality, working from home can be very isolating, and it really does make a difference being out in the world with people.
I've worked from home off and on for the past 18 years, and there were days when I would just go to Trader Joe's and sit in my car in the parking lot for awhile, or go in the store and wander around a bit (because the cashiers are always friendly and chat a bit when you're checking out, which makes a huge difference on a day when you've had no eye contact or interaction with anyone).
Sounds sad, maybe, but you have to find a balance, and some people aren't as thoughtful about it as others. I was at Starbucks once early in the morning, and the woman behind me was having a sales call with her team while she was seated right across from the espresso machines. The sound of the steam and the baristas slamming their filters against the counter to clear them was deafening, and yet she was on her headset blithely talking away about some pretty significant sales numbers! I couldn't believe her team was actually putting up with it (let alone was able to hear her over the sound).
To me, the more self-involved "laptop jockeys" are the same as the people who wear earbuds (runners, pedestrians) and run/walk straight out into the road without looking, and expect cars to stop for them. They want what they want and that's all that matters. :-/
5
Stay at home.
17
It is absolutely amazing to me that the owners of these cafes continue to put up with this. These laptop squatters spend little, take up quite a bit of space all around them and are generally unpleasant to be sitting near. They should delegate ONE TABLE directly in front of the toilet for their loitering and preserve the rest for actual customers.
25
At my local macdonald's, some of the seats are taken up with elderly 1.00 coffee drinkers, another quarter who use the wifi and buy nothing all, such is the big city. In the olde pre lap top days, many a customer sat there for hours having ketchup soup,
6
I'm sorry, but I think we should all give the elderly a sympathetic pass ALWAYS. Some are very lonely and, thanks to our sick society that votes for GOP tax cuts at the expense of medicare, social security, and other elder support services, that $1 cup of coffee may be all the social life they can get or afford.
40
I'd rather see a bunch of "elderly" people drinking coffee than a sea of narcissistic laptop "business" people who think a $5.00 cup of coffee is a fair price to pay to monopolize the place for hours on end.
4
Are there non elderly people clambering to hang out in a MacDonald's?
I am more than happy to take my lunch trade elsewhere when all or nearly all of the seating is taken by people working. there was a nice little lunch spot - until it became a workplace for remote workers. I actually want to spend money, not rent a table for a couple of hours for $5. These folks are killing the turnover. Unknown to the owner who enables this is the amount of money going elsewhere.
18
cafe aubergine sunnyside no wifi! thank you gods! yes i’m a wifi junkie but still wonderful to be tech free! at times i talk to the owner, another customer, read a book or a newspaper! a glorious throwback to another day..
14
Perhaps a new business venture is required. Something that exists between abusing cafe's space and the exorbitant prices of co-working spaces.
7
I'm pretty old - and an artist - and have watched the social contract change radically over the last 15 years. Sadly, that's not going to change. There's too many people making too much money for it to stop. Human interaction among strangers is now rare. As an artist, I go to coffee shops and watch people. (When I can get a seat at a coffee shop that is!) I don't ogle them or stare rudely; I just observe things (people, kids, cars, dogs) and sometimes I read. A few years ago I realized that people started looking at me like I was a freak. Why was I looking at things? Why wasn't I staring at the electric image on my phone or iPad like everyone else? What was wrong with me? Was I dangerous? I grew up in NYC and the diners were like one act plays, full of chatter and noise and wise-cracking waitresses. The music was the sizzle on the grill and the rustling of newspapers. I know. That's old and gone. But I miss it.
76
I also like to "people watch" As a writer and artist, it's valuable time spent. What I notice is that, no matter where I am, people are looking at their phones (or laptops). What in the world could there possibly be that is so interesting you have to stare at a screen all the time? I suspect many of them are playing some sort of game, checking social media, shopping online, etc. No wonder people don't read much anymore and their brains are always fried--and empty.
2
What cafes don't realize is that it is equally annoying for non-remotely-working patrons as it is for cafe owners. For every 1 person who is holed up for the long haul there are 3 annoyed customers who wish they had a place to sit and chat.
40
I was at a Texas Roadhouse last year, and asked the waitress if they had wi-fi. She looked at me like I had 2 heads. A high volume discount steakhouse, they want turnover, not stragglers.
Small cafes with big ov
I work on my files on the Cloud. This requires no wi-fi. I'm retired, in the midst of a major writing project. I find it more productive to mix writing at home with writing at a cafe. I always buy lunch and frequent four cafes during not busy times. I also go to two large college bookstores and cafeterias. At one point at one place I used to initiate conversations. That worked fairly well, but now I don't want to do that any more so I don't go there. I love solitude.
3
Three thoughts:
1) The people conducting business via mobile phone at their laptops in cafes are much more annoying than people merely working at their laptops.
2) Many of the people on laptops at the cafe don't seem to be working. Instead, they are on social media, shopping, watching Youtube, and playing games.
3) At my cafe, it is the Americans who are glued to their laptops. People from other countries tend to read books and magazines or come with friends and socialize.
20
What's a good Cafe if you can do some creative writing and thinking over a cup a joe? I wrote grant applications and drafted research papers at the Printers' Inc Cafe and Book Store on California Ave in Palo Alto in the 1980s and 90s. There was plenty of chatter around and an occasional Nobel Prize winner. No one seemed to mind. What a wonderful atmosphere for creativity!
8
I get that sometimes you need to be somewhere public to meet clients. And I suppose there are some homeless remote workers.
But what I don't get is why -- if you are sitting working at your laptop, wearing headphones and NOT INTERACTING WITH ANYONE -- you do not simply work at home?
31
I have a small kid at home. Some days I’m able to work remotely so that’s great - except toddlers don’t understand why Mommy can’t play with them. So after preschool ends I will duck out to a coffee shop in my neighborhood for tea/snack/change of scene - and WiFi. If I have to do a conference call, I relocate to my car.
4
It's because they know that coffeehouses are cool places to be, but since they aren't cool they don't know how to behave.
My word this needs to be enshrined in law, with London adopting this model. Looking for a seat in Foyles cafe to have a drink and rest my tired cardiac self that was feeling a bit light-headed, one was confronted by a sea of laptops, focused automatons - their faces lit by the glow of their screens - and each one with earplugs emitting tinny music. I carefully noted that none had bought recent drinks or food.
The cold bench in the atrium, the only place I could find in the shop, sufficed. Though it didn’t sell drinks.
17
I think we should all talk more to each other instead of starring at screens.
There should be device free cafes, that's for sure.
26
I think we need to be careful about forming adversarial relationships with customers. Perhaps dedicated spaces are the best option here.
8
It will sort itself out. The coffeehouses that want to cater to the laptop crowd will have no lack of customers. And for those coffeehouses that want to promote more human-human interaction, the remaining humanoids on the planet will seek them out.
7
No easy answer on this one. Connected world, the connection may bring them in, but keep them too long.
3
I wonder if a solution might be found in updating the way our local public libraries operate. Clearly there is a growing need for work space for those not tied to an office. And cafes are most definitely not non-profit organizations. A customer who spends $4 and stays for 5 hours is nonsensical fro ma business standpoint. But, who wants to spend the whole day in a totally silent library where no food and drinks are allowed? Maybe the libraries can designate a portion of the space as snack and sound friendly. I envision a library of the future, with coffee carts inside, where all proceeds go towards supporting the library!
48
When I was in college, the main campus library had a small cafe on the ground floor, with a separate entrance and walled off from the silent library for noise reasons. They sold coffee to go, as drinks with lids were allowed in the library, and food to eat in the cafe. They were always packed. It was a great place to meet study groups, and it absolutely prolonged my study sessions--not having to travel too far for meals was a huge plus.
I love my local library, and I'd be thrilled if a coffee shop opened up on the premises (obviously not taking away any book space, but I'm sure it could be done in some locations).
7
I am a manager at a small library in the North Bay (SF Bay) and yes, we DO provide coffee, tea, hot cocoa to our patrons for a donation and they can stay as long as they want. The wifi and electricity is provided by the tax-payers. The wifi reaches the picnic tables outside where patrons can also eat and be as loud as they wish! Many libraries are doing the same thing. Visit your neighborhood branch and check it out!
31
R Ryan, have you been to East Bay libraries lately? Most offer study/work areas and have cafes attached where you can go for a break and a snack.
7
We are in an era where there is considerable opportunity for cafés to gain substantial additional revenue. I often work from cafés and buy cappuccinos, sparkling water, lunch, etc. sometimes spending $30+ in a day at a few spots. If the place is packed solid I'll head out but that rarely happens. If you're not holding a seat for a potential customer, I don't see the problem. Generally, restaurants/cafes with many patrons attract more patrons than empty ones.
In some respects table hoarding is a temporary problem as we approach a time when eyeglass HUDs replace large laptop displays. However, people will continue to seek out drinks and food.
Our younger generations communicate and collaborate through different mediums than older generations. These people treat in-person interaction with about as much value as a remote connection.
Many locations that would have gone under due to lack of sales are kept afloat by these laptop toting digital nomads.
1
It’s not directly stated but is implied by the mere posting of this article that laptop workers at cafes do hog space. That’s the problem. If they see an outlet they feel entitled. They take away customers’ space and stay as long as they like. I think the business owners’ perspective is very important but also the customer that is just trying to grab lunch. I can’t stand them - any of them. Cafes are not workspaces. Try getting away with it at restaurants. No one wants to see people working while they’re enjoying a break. It’s the same for airplanes - I don’t want to see your screen!!
8
There have been countless times when I've wanted to take a co-worker, friend or myself out to a small cafe but don't because of the laptop zombies. Oh well, their loss.
30
I go to a non Starbucks place where students of college age do their homework. I can understand the desire to be around other bodies and away from home. Libraries would be an option and I see more libraries setting up study rooms. I believe Wi Fi connectivity will soon be everywhere. Conversation is a dying art. Not dead though. Just tweet level and internet based. Got to live with it. I seen it all, and survive. But no laptop in my life, yet there is the iPAD. So who am I to kvetch.
3
When I was in college, the library was exactly where we studied and did homework; how has that changed?
7
I love to meet friends in cafes, we chat catch up and have some food.
BUT I hate it when as a paying customer that will spend $20.OO for one hour of sitting I can not find anywhere to sit because all the seats are taken by the wifi users that take over tables and keep them all day.
There must be a balance. I really do not understand how some of these places make money
92
As a nomad worker, I struggle with this. I'm on a long-term creative project, and I travel. I've worked at libraries, campgrounds, roadside rest areas... and many, many cafes.
For myself, I'd be more than happy to engage in a payment model that worked. I love cafes! I look for the funky charming ones, with chalkboard menus. You know.
I try to order much and tip well, but it's still not quite fair. I'd definitely be amenable to a usage-fee of some kind.
In the broader context, I do think we're seeing a rise of "experience venues" beginning to replace "purchasing venues"... keep your eyes open and you'll find examples, too. These all have to be usage-fee based.
My partner and I have joked about opening our own cafe, based on (and possibly called) "Minutes Not Mugs."
17
Cafes were my only refuge when I was trying to raise a daughter with ASD and complete a PhD and full time work. If you’re courteous then the owner should have no hesitation in asking that the table is needed for other customers. I see the problem being that no one is courteous these days.
27
I enjoy the silence. People are too loud anyway. It's nice that so many cafes are as quiet as a library. Yeah, so everyone's plugged in to a computer, whatever. It means I can have a nice conversation with my friend without raising my voice. This is assuming, though, that people are quietly working and not spending too much time at a table. Owners should not hesitate to throw people out if they're making loud phone calls or hogging seats.
7
How about not spending money? that's the issue.
10
Walking into a cafe without a laptop, ready to buy some lunch, I have been dismayed to find a large portion of the seats occupied by people who have only a laptop in front of them. No coffee cup, no dishes, and no seat for me, the paying customer. In some cases these wifi squatters have actually brought in their own drinks in sports bottles and a couple of times I've seen them have Tupperware containers of food from home. All due respect to people who enjoy the free wifi, the hourly cost of that seat you're taking up is supposed to be balanced against revenues from whoever is in that seat. Spend money in proportion to how long you're there, and nobody will mind. Not even me.
152
I stopped going to Panera, when, with a heavy tray with my lunch and drink, could not locate a place to sit. There was a bible club meeting going on, 3 tables for 2 were pushed together, with old coffee cups pushed aside, another similar six top occupied by only two people, with bags and coats covering up half on the space; and the remainder were individual students, at 2 tops and 4 tops, hunkered down with laptops and earphones, and no food in sight. I wandered around for 15 min before someone left. When I complained I was offered a gift certificate for a free lunch, but even then, I didn't go back.
58
It's all part of our "all about me" lifestyles.
10
For sprawlers, simply ask, precisely in these words, "Is someone sitting at this table?" When I ask, the answer is always No, and they decamp their stuff back to their own table. I then move the table away from his/hers and sit. Maybe it's because I grew up in NYC in another era, when assertiveness could easily be combined with politeness, that I don't hesitate to dive in and solve the sprawler problem.
But in general where I live I find the people to be polite and considerate. including the many college people.
By the way college cafeterias are large, plenty of seats, with free wifi for guests.
18
A similar situation happens in Brazil. I used to go for a cofee and cake everytime I would go to my favourite bookshop in town. Now the room is always filled with people working in their laptops. I can't remember the last time there was an avaialable table on weekdays. Most of the time, I couldn't see a single cup of coffe on their tables.
9
This article really resonates. A tea shop that I used to frequent to do my college readings and just pass the time with friends closed down a few years back due to this exact problem. Café owners should look to Sweetleaf as a roe model in how to still provide some wi-fi service without being taken advantage of by the roaming laptop crowd.
26
My favorite cafe used to have that problem, but now shuts off its wi-fi during peak hours (breakfast time, lunchtime) and asks patrons to be ready to share tables when it's busy. It's like a nice way of forcing people to understand that they need to respect the place they're in! It's helped a lot.
It's also a fairly small cafe (30 people seated inside) and is run in a very personable way, so anyone who straps on giant headphones and does the "laptop stare" doesn't last very long due to the social weirdness of it. I feel like that's the answer -- politely "making" customers aware of what's expected while they're on the premises, so to speak. Kind of like a No Shirt No Shoes No Service sign. :-D
5
The library is a better option. Used it when I was freelancing and for personal use when I don't have home internet. It's quiet, yet there are people around. Access to printers, copiers. Usually a café nearby and some food/drink is OK. No guilt over hogging a table or nursing a coffee.
113
In places like the DC and Boston suburbs, the libraries are filled with homeless, often mentally damaged, people who are just looking for a warm place to sit and sleep.
It's sad.
7
But it's not hip to go to a library!
4
Great idea as long as they have enough seats for everyone.
2
Two things now make it hard for me to meet a friend for coffee, a snack, and a chat these days. First, yes, tables are occupied for hours by folks working on laptops. But also--perhaps in an effort to discourage web confabs and cell phone use by the laptop folks-- cafe staff now play music so loud that my friends and I can barely hear each other, much less have an enjoyable, semi-private chat.
84
I have found the noise problem to be true for decades now. The last time I might have been able to have much of a conversation or read a magazine for a few minutes was in the early 1980s.
3
I have been teaching for over 40 years. I enjoyed the buzz of students engaged with each other when I walked into the classroom. Asking my classes to 'quiet down' was an enjoyable part of the routine. Now it's depressingly silent as most are engaged, not with each other, but with their devices. That being said, I prefer the quiet in restaurants, so that I can have a nice conversation with my dining companions, and not have to shout to be heard over the other diners' din!
14
You might be surprised at how many of those students ARE engaging with each other -- just thru texts instead of through conversation
3
Unfortunately, that does sometimes happen DURING class, even though they are required to put their devices away. Before class it's usually with others, or streaming.
3
Internet cafés from twenty years ago charged for the privilege of using the internet and sold coffee as a loss leader to make it more pleasant and because coffee and work go together.
A generation later, coffee shops are real places competing with virtual spaces. Wifi is now unlimited at a flat rate to the owner, so he offers it as a perk and loss leader in a place that is set up to offer food and coffee, first and foremost. Yet people populate the café to work, not recognizing that their presence prevents other paying customers from being seated. On one level, it seems rude to sit on the computer for hours while drinking coffee and the occasional danish, but we also need to realize that in this economy, not only are a lot of people homeless, but there is another group that are office-less, and this group needs a place to operate. A solution might be, rather, to encourage people to either order something once an hour or move to a different table after two hours, and to leave after three hours, max. One might also suggest that certain off-peak hours be available when people with laptops would be welcome.
The coffee shop owner must make his own decisions, but in the economy at large, the owner cannot solve the greater problem of people who really need a type of office space and simply cannot afford it. That is an economic problem of huge proportions, for which the ramifications are not yet known.
11
I think you're onto something...that cafes relegate certain hours only for WiFi access. Because if you think about it...most of these remote workers likely are not doing typical 9-5 jobs where they must complete/submit something during that timeframe. Most such workers work flex-hours, at all times of the night and day, and even over weekends.
Maybe cafes can figure out what are the days/hours where true eating/drinking customers are most likely to come in....and maybe they can even adjust the number of seats during any given timeframe, that are available to drinkers/eaters versus to laptoppers. There can be tasteful signs to designate which seats are for diners versus worker bees. And the cafe owners can adjust the % of such seats, based on their own observations of supply/demand.
2
Unless one is both homeless and office-less, there's no reason to squat at a café for free wifi.
You can't tell me that in this day and age, pretty much anyone can get internet service at home for less than the monthly total cost of a daily coffee at one of these coffee bars. You could probably set up a WiFi hotspot with your phone for less.
Don't tell me know there aren't options they could use if they chose to.
8
If people are office-less, why don't they work at home? That's what my friends do.
4
I regularly go to a very nice cafe in town which has a lot of outdoor seating and inside are two sections, one small one with no laptops allowed and the other larger area where anything goes. It all works ok but there is a big thing missing in the atmosphere which I think the younger people are not even aware of: that a public cafe is a place where you can spend time and feel the energies of others, have a chat, share a newspaper, check in with a friend or acquaintance, or even flirt with a stranger. You can develop rapport with the servers and the owner. Maybe your art will be hung on the walls. Or maybe you will just be bored and watch the passing flow.
But to be buried in the laptop in some world far away all of that is absent. The cafe life can't live. It's something I really miss.
75
The café is a SOCIAL space, not a work space. One goes there to get AWAY from work, email, telephone, and to meet friends or acquaintances. My preferred café in the neighbourhood does not even provide WIFI. Bravissimo!
136
There is a newish cafe in Carrol Gardens that had been taken over by laptop users. There was no room left for customers who wanted to have coffee and a chat with a friend. The place was quieter than a library . Any conversation if we got a table would be jarring so I went elsewhere. Now they have a designated laptop area ,like a smoking section and the other customers can have coffee and chat with a friend.
49
During a recent visit at a local NE Los Angeles coffee spot, my friend and I were the only people not working on laptops. (This was a Sunday, by the way.) We sat at the last available table, in a corner, and proceeded to have a conversation -- much to the consternation of the laptop workers near us. We received nonstop glares, despite the low volume of our chat. Eventually, the dude nearest us left in a huff.
A week ago, I tried to take my mother for brunch to a different cafe, but we had to go elsewhere because every single table was occupied by laptoppers and the ubiquitous single, empty, cup of coffee. I have been wondering ever since just how these places manage to stay in business clogged with nonpaying table hogs that force paying customers elsewhere!
80
A few years ago, a local cafe owner turned off his connection after a woman (sitting at a table with two laptops open and spreadsheets in view) asked him to turn down the music because she was about to begin a teleconference.
248
That cafe owner is the real MVP.
14
Chutzpah!
3
Wow, that's chutzpah. Good for the cafe owner.
1
The cafe near me charges for wifi. I think that it is about $5 an hour... about the price of a medium mocha or late. Seems fair to me, and I don't understand why more cafes don't do something similar.
136
Excellent. Or could order something through wi fi and that would "buy" more time.
5
And there should be charges for the 110v outlet use.
8
Owners of cafes: You do not have to cater to customers' behaviors that cost you revenue, or you are simply not comfortable with. If the customers using laptops in your cafe at 3 hour sessions does not fit your vision or your business model, then kindly kick them out!
More specifically, what I see the need to crack down on is the sense of entitlement that comes with the laptop people; They really do act like they own the seat/table they lord over while working.
Why do people who get to work at home, NOT work at home? Why the need to go to a cafe to work? I don't think most of these 'work at cafe' workers can argue that they come to a cafe for camaraderie, because they have headphones on and aren't engaging with anyone.
Unless they are OK with it, cafe owners must resist this trend of their cafes being converted into satellite offices.
I live close to The Chipped Cup, a small cafe in Hamilton Heights. I can hardly ever get a table there to have coffee, because of the laptop crowd. In my opinion, this trend is becoming a standard that keeps me away from cafes.
How much money does the average laptop customer spend while at your cafe? I would think not turning over a table has a cost to it, similar to that of a restaurant.
Owners: please set limits, both on wi-fi access, as well as how much a customer spends in order to use your cafe as their work space. Or charge them RENT, at a rate that either encourages, or discourages this behavior. Seems fair to me.
194
I can't tell you how many times I've left a cafe without ordering solely because there were no seats, all of them having been commandeered by those working away in their $5/day remote offices.
52
I've had the same problem at The Chipped Cup, as well as other cafes. I wonder if the owners realize that they're losing business because of their laptop zombies?
16
Technology had turned people into self absorbed, inconsiderate tools!
8
If someone spends a comparable amount of time reading a book, writing in a notebook, or other such comparable tasks in the analog, will they also be curtailed?
24
Why not? A cafe isn't a living room, it's a business. If you're not paying to use the space, you shouldn't be hogging it for people who would like to spend more money.
65
Somehow, throughout the long history of cafes, that was less of a problem. (Although there is one in our university town that had a "No Studying" sign up, ha ha.)
Perhaps there is something qualitatively, socially different between reading a book and connecting to the rest of the world through a screen and earphones in real time.
20
Yes. I assume we've all seen people who bring the entire Sunday Times into a cafe, clearly intending to hog a table for hours. Obviously, cutting wifi and hiding outlets won't work in that instance but there should still be a limit.
4
The customer who ripped away the wallpaper should have been literally thrown out of the cafe. Cell phones to be banned. In a choice between quiet and noise, laptop users in a cafe are generally a quiet crowd, much more preferable to logorheic chatters.
79
@Tuvw Xyz What's your feelings on logorrheic (two Rs) comment section contributors?
4
Or better yet, charged with property damage. Who knows, the wallpaper could have been quite expensive and would require either repapering the entire wall so that it all matches - or at a minimum, one full sheet. I would have pressed charges.
7
Except they take up seating for aor long periods, preventing other customers from sitting down,anll and lowering the businessess's takings.
Unfortunately, it is not laptops and silence at my local coffee shop. It's laptops and people on cell phones. I finally stopped going.
115