Again, CA is ahead of the curve. I praise their leadership. Everyone can help by using social media to warn neighbors and colleagues of ICE presence from HomeDepot, bus stops, and grocery stores. It takes a village. Information and compassion are the ultimate weapons.
1
Is there any other country where a person who has entered or remained illegally is allowed to stay?
5
We should all be very scared of the new ethos of apartheid that has crept into law enforcement with the rise of the right - and the deal made between corporations and law enforcement that minimizes the individual citizen.
When an law abiding doctor and a paying passengers can be brutalized on United airline flights and man handled off the flight by armed thugs - it is only a short distance to the tactics Nazis used on people they did not want around. Law enforcement needs better leaders and better training.
If Trump is keen on defending the innocent he should start with what is happening in The USA.
When an law abiding doctor and a paying passengers can be brutalized on United airline flights and man handled off the flight by armed thugs - it is only a short distance to the tactics Nazis used on people they did not want around. Law enforcement needs better leaders and better training.
If Trump is keen on defending the innocent he should start with what is happening in The USA.
1
Proponents of "sanctuary cities" and "sanctuary states" must at least acknowledge the only logical consequence of their position: completely open borders with absolutely no control over who enters. California is already choked with overpopulation. Notwithstanding this year's bountiful rainy season, the state still has a growing water shortage. Housing has become unaffordable. The infrastructure is not up to the task of accommodating people already here. Yet the "open borders" crowd wants even more immigration?
12
What does the word "ILLEGAL" mean to you ? Why do you want to shield someone who has performed an "ILLEGAL" act from lawful detention and, in the case of entering a country (US of A) illegally, the return of that person from whence they came ? I DO NOT believe in "Sanctuary" as a means to avoid lawful detention. The only sanctuary I believe in is that portion of my church that holds all of the necessary religious articles for services. You have to remember what happened to Kate Steinle in San Francisco after her killer had been deported several times, returned illegally and was offered "sanctuary" by that clown of a mayor Ed Lee.
10
OOPS I hit enter before finishing:
fortress America nyc Pending Approval
= =
"Yes, she replied, she was supposed to appear in front of an immigration judge in Texas nearly 15 years ago, but had no way of getting there."
=
I think I have a reading comprehension deficit.
I read this article to say that the would-be deportee, is driving a car, and then alleges that for fifteen years, she had no way of getting to where the order wanted her to go. She accepts that she is aware of the order, it seems.
This is ONE benefit of driver-less cars, Big Brother could re-direct your car, the uber GPS, and re-route you.
IN THE ALTERNATIVE, the deportee in question COULD have communicated to the deportation agency, of her transportation difficulties, pleaded some form of forum non convenians, and said - "deport me from CA, I can't get to TX"
oops
fortress America nyc Pending Approval
= =
"Yes, she replied, she was supposed to appear in front of an immigration judge in Texas nearly 15 years ago, but had no way of getting there."
=
I think I have a reading comprehension deficit.
I read this article to say that the would-be deportee, is driving a car, and then alleges that for fifteen years, she had no way of getting to where the order wanted her to go. She accepts that she is aware of the order, it seems.
This is ONE benefit of driver-less cars, Big Brother could re-direct your car, the uber GPS, and re-route you.
IN THE ALTERNATIVE, the deportee in question COULD have communicated to the deportation agency, of her transportation difficulties, pleaded some form of forum non convenians, and said - "deport me from CA, I can't get to TX"
oops
8
Readers are misconstruing the law in several ways.
First of all, under the Tenth Amendment, the Feds cannot commandeer state officers to require that they enforce federal laws. It is up to ICE, not the Highway Patrol to detect, investigate, arrest, prosecute, and deport people suspected of entering the country illegally or overstaying their visas. If there is a judicial warrant out on a person, they will still be arrested and handed over. All California is saying is that it will not be using its resources to help ICE do its job. The only thing that concerns me about SB54 is that local cops may think it prohibits them from giving information to ICE. That might violate 8 USC 1373 (a) or (b), however there is an open question whether that statute is Constitutional.
At least one commenter asserted that the woman mentioned in the piece had committed a felony. Not reporting to a hearing or responding to a deportation order is not a crime. Even ignoring a "bag and baggage" letter is not a crime, though it can result in a warrant for arrest and subject you to a civil penalty.
First of all, under the Tenth Amendment, the Feds cannot commandeer state officers to require that they enforce federal laws. It is up to ICE, not the Highway Patrol to detect, investigate, arrest, prosecute, and deport people suspected of entering the country illegally or overstaying their visas. If there is a judicial warrant out on a person, they will still be arrested and handed over. All California is saying is that it will not be using its resources to help ICE do its job. The only thing that concerns me about SB54 is that local cops may think it prohibits them from giving information to ICE. That might violate 8 USC 1373 (a) or (b), however there is an open question whether that statute is Constitutional.
At least one commenter asserted that the woman mentioned in the piece had committed a felony. Not reporting to a hearing or responding to a deportation order is not a crime. Even ignoring a "bag and baggage" letter is not a crime, though it can result in a warrant for arrest and subject you to a civil penalty.
1
How far should this go?
For example, if the California State Police have a warrant for the son of a popular/rich person in a rural county, should the county sheriff refuse to assist the State Police in finding or holding him? After all, he did not commit any crime in the county.
For example, if the California State Police have a warrant for the son of a popular/rich person in a rural county, should the county sheriff refuse to assist the State Police in finding or holding him? After all, he did not commit any crime in the county.
10
There are so many idiots out here that this may happen - until the federal government cuts off funds.
5
What you're witnessing is civil war.
Here's one of the issues:
Many people consider the administration illegitimate for any number of reasons ( the ~3 million voters for Ms Clinton being just one, and yes, I do understand the Electoral College. I'm just making an observation) and with that the issue of the consent of the governed is withdrawn. This then lead to the right of rebellion inherent in out State Documents (Bill of Rights, Constitution, Declaration of Independence).
The government is making moves that appear to be in conflict with the common good (Right or Left), two examples being EPA, Health Care alienation even more of the population.
Is the move in Syria a tail wagging the dog attempt to divert attention? I don't know, but I am never sure when someone who by all appearance doesn't have much of any moral fiber to come out and claim this was made for moral reasons,
makes me suspect of those moves. And yes Obama should have moved earlier on that same subject, see red line.
So back to the article. yes we have to make our borders secure. It's the nature of a State. Do we need to enforce them in this manner? All they are appear to be doing is picking the low hanging fruit, some of who appear to be tax paying individuals. But even more specifically at what point does the Federal trump the local states? This was an issue before the Civil War and here we are again.
Here's one of the issues:
Many people consider the administration illegitimate for any number of reasons ( the ~3 million voters for Ms Clinton being just one, and yes, I do understand the Electoral College. I'm just making an observation) and with that the issue of the consent of the governed is withdrawn. This then lead to the right of rebellion inherent in out State Documents (Bill of Rights, Constitution, Declaration of Independence).
The government is making moves that appear to be in conflict with the common good (Right or Left), two examples being EPA, Health Care alienation even more of the population.
Is the move in Syria a tail wagging the dog attempt to divert attention? I don't know, but I am never sure when someone who by all appearance doesn't have much of any moral fiber to come out and claim this was made for moral reasons,
makes me suspect of those moves. And yes Obama should have moved earlier on that same subject, see red line.
So back to the article. yes we have to make our borders secure. It's the nature of a State. Do we need to enforce them in this manner? All they are appear to be doing is picking the low hanging fruit, some of who appear to be tax paying individuals. But even more specifically at what point does the Federal trump the local states? This was an issue before the Civil War and here we are again.
What are we becoming?
2
We are in this mess because of greed. Our government doesn't go after the rich employers who lure people here with the promise of a job, only the poor people that are desperate enough to believe they have a shot at a better life. This is easily resolved, prosecute employers. But that will never happen, because America does not run on capitalism. It runs on greed.
3
California cannot survive without the work of immigrants, illegal or otherwise. Ask the thousands of growers across this state how their crops would get planted, cared for, and harvested. Many of these growers are Republicans, who spout the party line on most issues, but remain conspicuously silent on this one.
California also is a prime tourist destination, and wine country--where I live--relies on thousands of tourists who come to taste and purchase wine. How will the wine be produced without immigrants?
This move is not only morally right, it's good business.
9
kathleen cairns - "California cannot survive without the work of immigrants legal or otherwise"
I'm sure Democrats in the South over 150 years ago said exactly the same thing about slaves! They were wrong then, you are wrong now, at least about the "otherwise".
I'm sure Democrats in the South over 150 years ago said exactly the same thing about slaves! They were wrong then, you are wrong now, at least about the "otherwise".
11
State rebellion over federal actions is a trend started by the Republicans in response to Democratic initiatives they opposed but didn't have the power at the federal level to block, obstruct or thwart.
It's kinda poetic with the shoe now on the other foot...
It's kinda poetic with the shoe now on the other foot...
3
The nullification doctrine was put to rest in the Civil War, correct?
7
If I went to Mexico on a tourist visa and decided to stay, worked, paid taxes with a fake social security number, and committed no felonies, would I be allowed to remain there for 15 years? Would any of my children automatically become Mexican citizens by virtue of being born in that country? Could they enter school, speaking only English? Could I receive aid to dependent children from the Mexican government? If the Federal police found me, should I expect my city police to protect me?
We are either a nation of laws or we are not. It is long past time to define immigration law. We are in this current antagonistic situation because no one in our government has the courage to "fix" the broken system. They have kicked it into the future for too long in order to remain in office for the next few terms.
Providing sanctuary does not solve the problem. It merely prolongs the eventual outcome.
We are either a nation of laws or we are not. It is long past time to define immigration law. We are in this current antagonistic situation because no one in our government has the courage to "fix" the broken system. They have kicked it into the future for too long in order to remain in office for the next few terms.
Providing sanctuary does not solve the problem. It merely prolongs the eventual outcome.
18
It has been suggested that ICE ignore the sanctuary states and double down on arresting illegal aliens in the other states. This would cause as many illegal as possible to move to the sanctuary states along with all of the costs and problems that they entail.
13
"Yes, she replied, she was supposed to appear in front of an immigration judge in Texas nearly 15 years ago, but had no way of getting there."
=
I think I have a reading comprehension deficit.
I read this article to say that the would-be deportee, is driving a car, and then alleges that for fifteen years, she had no way of getting to where the order wanted her to go. She accepts that she is aware of the order, it seems.
This is ONE benefit of driver-less cars, Big Brother could re-direct your car, the uber GPS, and re-route you.
IN THE ALTERRNATIVE, the deportee in q
=
I think I have a reading comprehension deficit.
I read this article to say that the would-be deportee, is driving a car, and then alleges that for fifteen years, she had no way of getting to where the order wanted her to go. She accepts that she is aware of the order, it seems.
This is ONE benefit of driver-less cars, Big Brother could re-direct your car, the uber GPS, and re-route you.
IN THE ALTERRNATIVE, the deportee in q
4
What is the jurisprudence here? If enough people break the law you just ignore the law?
In 1861 Lincoln called for 75 thousand volunteers to march on Richmond in response to Southern states refusal to obey Federal law. Was that a mistake?
In 1861 Lincoln called for 75 thousand volunteers to march on Richmond in response to Southern states refusal to obey Federal law. Was that a mistake?
14
There should be a sponsorship program for all those who want to assist illegal aliens and are against deportation efforts. Please sponsor as many illegal aliens as you can afford as this will help relieve other American taxpayers who can no longer afford to pay for these entitlement programs. Illegal aliens and their children cost American taxpayers billions of dollars!
11
Is the Mexican Government attempting to influence elections in California?
I think a little investigation by the Times would show there is a lot more open tampering in American elections by the Mexicans than was ever dreamed of by the Russians and Trump.
Here is a challenge NY Times, see if you can find a illegal financial link between Mexico and California politicians?
I think a little investigation by the Times would show there is a lot more open tampering in American elections by the Mexicans than was ever dreamed of by the Russians and Trump.
Here is a challenge NY Times, see if you can find a illegal financial link between Mexico and California politicians?
This is wonderful. Such insane moves will only encourage migration out of this yahoo state. Plus, after President Trump cuts Federal Funding because of California's refusal to obey Federal immigration laws the savings can be used to build the Wall even higher.
Just wait when California's taxes go up 50% in order to pay for their commitment to supporting illegal aliens over their own citizens. We may need to build a Wall keeping Californians out of the rest of America.
Just wait when California's taxes go up 50% in order to pay for their commitment to supporting illegal aliens over their own citizens. We may need to build a Wall keeping Californians out of the rest of America.
14
The first two paragraphs and the actions of states including Californian make me sick. Here we have an individual who clearly knows she's in violation of the law and comes up with a ludicrous excuse as to why she could not comply. Even more irritating is the fact that her excuse was likely told while she was in a car that presumably could facilitate her movement back to Texas to face the music. There is no other country that panders to illegal immigrants in ways even remotely close to how the US is now pandering. In Singapore, illegal immigrants receive strokes from a cane. Perhaps this should be considered.
15
I fail to see why a city, state, or any governmental sub-division would choose to protect illegal immigrants accused of criminal violations, especially if those violations involve violent behavior and/or the use of deadly weapons. Do we not remember the Steinle family. Has anyone's heart not been ripped apart at the sight of Kate Steinle being shot by an illegal immigrant in San Francisco?
What am I missing here? Do we care about our tax paying citizens? Over any consideration for immigrants intent on causing the kind of pain the Steinle's and I experienced when Kate was murdered?
What motivates a city or state to ignore federal requests for police action to secure criminal illegal immigrants? Why nod approval to a criminal element on our streets in deference over a citizen, a decent person filled with love for the U.S.A.
We need a refresher in priority setting. We need a refresher in valuing each other. Over any illegal immigrants slithering along our streets and alleys. Hiding, waiting to strike our brother and sister citizens.
This issue is political. Liberal Democrats vs Republicans. It's an American issue.
Period. God Bless Kate Steinle.
What am I missing here? Do we care about our tax paying citizens? Over any consideration for immigrants intent on causing the kind of pain the Steinle's and I experienced when Kate was murdered?
What motivates a city or state to ignore federal requests for police action to secure criminal illegal immigrants? Why nod approval to a criminal element on our streets in deference over a citizen, a decent person filled with love for the U.S.A.
We need a refresher in priority setting. We need a refresher in valuing each other. Over any illegal immigrants slithering along our streets and alleys. Hiding, waiting to strike our brother and sister citizens.
This issue is political. Liberal Democrats vs Republicans. It's an American issue.
Period. God Bless Kate Steinle.
12
I am writing on my phone, on a boucey and brash subway train, so please excuse typos.
Point one: this may sound trite and passe to the pseudo sophisticates, but does any one remember 9/11. Not all illegal aliens are huggable mothers and children -- and some mothers and children harbor bombs.
Point 2: the supremacy clause in the US Constitution provides that federal law beats state law. The sanctuary enactments and their masochistic American lasters who support them should be resoundingly rejected.
Point one: this may sound trite and passe to the pseudo sophisticates, but does any one remember 9/11. Not all illegal aliens are huggable mothers and children -- and some mothers and children harbor bombs.
Point 2: the supremacy clause in the US Constitution provides that federal law beats state law. The sanctuary enactments and their masochistic American lasters who support them should be resoundingly rejected.
15
So, if a big earthquake occurs in CA, does that mean there will be no federal funding for disaster recovery?
8
The reason Vermont is refusing to help enforce immigration laws is because without illegals vital portions of Vermont's already anemic economy would collapse. Dairy farms and quarries rely on illegal immigrants to perform jobs that no Vermonters want to do. It's really that simple.
4
There is precedent for what the federal government can do to bring states into compliance with federal law. The use of troops to enforce civil rights laws in the 50's and 60's comes to mind. Perhaps its time to make an example of California and bring the governor and legislature back into compliance with federal law.
10
While we are at it why have property rights as well? It seems inhumane that hollywood and silicon valley elites live in mansions in gated and heavily guarded communities while millions live in realative hovels. Tear down those walls!
11
Why is it so hard implement an appropriate work visa program? Why are people so upset about deporting someone who has a deportation order? How will local/state agencies have the needed relationship with federal officials on things such as firearms and drug trafficking and counterterrorism when they won't assist on this? Is it wrong to actually have rules on who is and isn't in this country? Is it better to have illegal immigrants who straddle a world of semi-legality and the shadows without worker protections or appropriate pay or will we finally acknowledge it's better to pay more for the services they render and have them legalized or have Americans paid enough to do their work?
Do we really like laws whose compliance is based on "feelings"? Either we enforce them or completely change them. You can legalize, have amnesty with initial penalties, deport or some combination but we as a country must decide. But if we simply choose to ignore federal laws when it suites us, what do we do when those who disagree with us choose to ignore federal mandates that we cherish? What do we do if/when certain areas of the country decide they will not cooperate with the federal agencies regarding reporting of violations of for example, EPA or workplace laws because they think it's problematic or deleterious to them or their business community?
Are we really so polarized we can't even come up with a clearheaded, intelligent but humane approach to illegal immigration?
Do we really like laws whose compliance is based on "feelings"? Either we enforce them or completely change them. You can legalize, have amnesty with initial penalties, deport or some combination but we as a country must decide. But if we simply choose to ignore federal laws when it suites us, what do we do when those who disagree with us choose to ignore federal mandates that we cherish? What do we do if/when certain areas of the country decide they will not cooperate with the federal agencies regarding reporting of violations of for example, EPA or workplace laws because they think it's problematic or deleterious to them or their business community?
Are we really so polarized we can't even come up with a clearheaded, intelligent but humane approach to illegal immigration?
15
The perspective of these reporters, and the nytimes, equating illegal immigrants with legal immigrants can only be described as propaganda.
18
How much money is it costing American tax payers so that Republicans can look like tough guys by rounding up immigrants and shipping them out of the country, breaking up families and otherwise creating an atmosphere of hate and fear?
2
Jim Manis - How much money is it costing American taxpayers to support, educate, feed, clothe and medicate those who are living in the United States in violation of law?
Plus no families need to be "broken up" since there is no law that says the spouse or children of those living in the US in violation of law can't join the deportee. Many American children are "forced" to follow a parent to a foreign country when that parent's employment sends him or her out of the United States.
Plus no families need to be "broken up" since there is no law that says the spouse or children of those living in the US in violation of law can't join the deportee. Many American children are "forced" to follow a parent to a foreign country when that parent's employment sends him or her out of the United States.
13
Why have laws?
That's what I hear from California.
That's what I hear from California.
15
So far Trump has not deported many more people than Obama did. But arrests of those trying to enter illegally are down 70%.
Not only are there many fewer trying to enter illegally compared to a year ago, but also since the start of the new year.
We don't have a wall. But there is an understanding that its not fine and dandy to be here illegally, and that laws will be followed.
That kind of understanding 20 years ago might have kept us from having millions of people here illegally.
Not only are there many fewer trying to enter illegally compared to a year ago, but also since the start of the new year.
We don't have a wall. But there is an understanding that its not fine and dandy to be here illegally, and that laws will be followed.
That kind of understanding 20 years ago might have kept us from having millions of people here illegally.
12
Who cares what California or any other state does, as there will be millions of fish for ICE to catch with the "go-out-and-get-them" policy of the Trump administration. The Trump administration can turn off the tap of federal grants to police departments in big cities situated in "sanctuary" states and redistribute that money to law enforcement in states with a willingness to cooperate. ICE has the resources and methods to find and track illegal immigrants without the help of state and local police. I also wonder how the law will be enforced when individual local cops can obviously surreptitiously contact ICE. Will the federal courts approve a state's effort to discipline or prosecute a local cop for reporting an illegal immigrant to ICE in violation of the cop's claimed free-speech First Amendment rights? Will police unions approve punishment of their members under their collective bargaining contracts with local municipalities? And when an illegal immigrant wanted for deportation commits a heinous murder or rape because the local cops had to look the other way, who pays?
13
I'm all for beefing up immigration enforcement--going forward. We should have had mandatory E-Verify for all businesses all along, but hypocrites don't want that, no siree. What's going on now is a roundup of folks who were previously allowed to stay with a "look the other way" attitude.
I'm sick of Americans saying these people broke the law by being here and therefore must be removed. Where is your humanity, or for that matter, your vaunted Christianity? If people have made lives here, if their only crime is being here without benefit of citizenship, it's just heartless to toss them out.
Resist, California.
I'm sick of Americans saying these people broke the law by being here and therefore must be removed. Where is your humanity, or for that matter, your vaunted Christianity? If people have made lives here, if their only crime is being here without benefit of citizenship, it's just heartless to toss them out.
Resist, California.
9
Well which other laws can we just resist? There's a way to get laws changed and this isn't it. As for humanity and Christianity can others fight and obstruct abortion laws on the same basis?
12
Thank you California for doing all you can to disrupt these Gestopo tactics. States have no obligation to assist trump's deportation force whatsoever.
9
So you hold that states have no obligation to enforce Federal mandates? So Judge Moore from Alabama was correct in his order to the Count Clerks to not issue same-sex marriage licenses, then.
19
The California legislature is controlled by a Democratic supermajority which does not need a Republican vote to pass bills or law.
SB 54, the California sanctuary state bill, does not reflect the consensus of the California voters, but rather a few Democratic lawmakers in Sacramento. If put on a ballot and to a vote, SB 54 would NOT pass in California.
Proposition 187, which protected California taxpayer dollars from funding programs for illegal aliens, passed in 1994 with a 2/3 voter approval. It was erased by a bill (SB 396) introduced by Kevin de Leon, son of illegal aliens, through a supermajority Democratic legislature. Prop 187 represented the voice of the California voters, while SB 396 was politics at play.
SB 54, the California sanctuary state bill, does not reflect the consensus of the California voters, but rather a few Democratic lawmakers in Sacramento. If put on a ballot and to a vote, SB 54 would NOT pass in California.
Proposition 187, which protected California taxpayer dollars from funding programs for illegal aliens, passed in 1994 with a 2/3 voter approval. It was erased by a bill (SB 396) introduced by Kevin de Leon, son of illegal aliens, through a supermajority Democratic legislature. Prop 187 represented the voice of the California voters, while SB 396 was politics at play.
9
It is amazing and perhaps a leading indicator of where the US will be a few decades from now that the state of Prop 187 is now leading the way on sanctuary policies to protect immigrants.
5
As a long time British US resident this reporter says that anyone, officials not excluded, who refuses to uphold and obey US federal laws is guilty of aiding and abetting law breakers...be they rapists, robbers or immigration violators !
Sanctuary areas are a blatant rejection of direct policies and stipulaions of the US president and those conspiring and effecting them should be arrested and charged with federal crimes regardless to whether they are politicians or cops,etc !
Too many immigrants in Europe, America and other places are committing horrendous crimes like running over people with trucks and cars also shootings , knifings,etc The US MUST deport A L L illegals to protect Americans !
Sanctuary areas are a blatant rejection of direct policies and stipulaions of the US president and those conspiring and effecting them should be arrested and charged with federal crimes regardless to whether they are politicians or cops,etc !
Too many immigrants in Europe, America and other places are committing horrendous crimes like running over people with trucks and cars also shootings , knifings,etc The US MUST deport A L L illegals to protect Americans !
14
We are not Europe; we are not overrun by migrants from war zones, drought and abject poverty. We are the U.S. and we have not demonized any ethnic group since we rounded up and put loyal Japanese in concentration camps. We took their bank accounts and assets. FDR later apologized. The U.S. made an attempt to repay those whose families were decimated and whose assets were stolen. Many of those Japanese refused the money. Japanese fought for the U.S. in WWII. We do not need to round up all illegals to protect Americans from gardeners, nannies, field workers et al. Get over yourself and your Trump nonsense. If you want to see exploitation of workers, look to the unpaid Polish workers who built Trump's Tower, threatened with deportation if they sued. Or, look at his Florida estate which hires illegals from Romania to avoid paying American wages. Again, they are threatened with deportation if they complain. The U.S. does not need to be Germany in 1939 to satisfy your mistaken belief that we are at risk from poor working people. Why don't you check with your Beverly Hills neighbors to see if their nannies are legally sponsored?
7
Chris Miilu - Those illegally in the United States are NOT an ethnic group to be demonized! We are however demonizing those who disobey and disregard the laws of the United States and rightfully so.
The businesses and wealthy people must have their endless supply of cheap docile workers, the Democrats pander and pretend to care, and the oblivious among us go along to get along.
19
Coming from a family who legally immigrated from South Korea in 1990, I'm appalled that the press lumps us in with people who broke our laws sneaking into our country, and do not pay taxes (undocumented means not filing). It makes me wonder, why follow the laws. Apparently it does not make a difference to local governments.
22
The IRS laws require taxes to be paid, no matter one's immigration status. Studies have shown that at least 1/2 of the undocumented have taxes deducted from their paychecks, including amounts for Social Security, etc. Yet these UNDOC. Will Never Receive these benefits.
6
Not receiving benefits is a price paid for breaking the law. Most illegals are paid by employers in cash. I know this from my experience in the restaurant industry. A social security number is required to file a tax return. Undocumented means no social security number assigned.
7
pepperman33: "... and do not pay taxes ..."
California has a statewide sales tax, and many jurisdictions impose an additional local sales tax. There are also property taxes.
As for income taxes, which seem to be the only taxes you know about, see:
Here Illegally, Working Hard and Paying Taxes
By EDUARDO PORTER
JUNE 19, 2006
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/19/business/19illegals.html
California has a statewide sales tax, and many jurisdictions impose an additional local sales tax. There are also property taxes.
As for income taxes, which seem to be the only taxes you know about, see:
Here Illegally, Working Hard and Paying Taxes
By EDUARDO PORTER
JUNE 19, 2006
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/19/business/19illegals.html
How do you spell Democrat? M-O-N-E-Y. California's agriculture industries runs on illegal immigrant labor. Do you think whites and blacks want to do this sunup to sundown fast paced, back breaking, monotonous work sans minimum wage and benefits? Not hardly. Fortunately, thanks to the Democrat party, the exploitation of illegal immigrants will continue and we'll all have cheaper fruits, vegetables, nuts, and wine!
10
As a native Californian who grew up in the Central Valley, I can say that Mexicans did work in the fields for low pay. There were few, if any, non-Mexicans who wanted to do stoop labor in hot sun baked fields. Those who came in with Dust Bowl did not want to do field work. They headed for the ship yards. Mexicans continued to labor in the fields. They raised families who sent their children to college; I went to UC with a friend from one of those families. Mexicans are not a problem for California. Central Americans are a problem for the Northeastern U.S.
5
I did not realise that we had so much hate for the people who do our dirty work for us, the work many of us are not willing to do.
13
I don't hate anybody. I do believe in law and order.
Nobody does any dirty work for me and the company I work for does not employ illegal aliens to do custodial work and they are great people. And California produce is so overrated.
Nobody does any dirty work for me and the company I work for does not employ illegal aliens to do custodial work and they are great people. And California produce is so overrated.
16
The irony of the mess Trump has caused is that his constituents in the states where immigration could actually be a problem, like CA, TX, AZ are not nearly as concerned about the issue as those in the Midwest and other areas that have few illegal Hispanic immigrants. Everyone may talk the talk in Texas, but I also hear them taking advantage of cheap day labor to do yard work & housework along with the fact it is well established that these groups handle many other menial jobs from washing dishes to picking crops nobody else want to do (regardless of the unemployment rate).
It may be fashionable to talk about deporting all the illegal aliens, but surely we have a lot more important ways to spend our money and time than picking on the easiest ones: law-abiding, long-term illegal aliens who have legal citizen children. Obama's approach focusing on dangerous or criminal illegal aliens made much more sense, but it only addressed half the question.
It is clear we need to create a road to citizenship. If the GOP doesn't have the fortitude to do so, maybe we need to elect another group of legislators to do the people's work. This group seems less interested in our citizens anyway.
It may be fashionable to talk about deporting all the illegal aliens, but surely we have a lot more important ways to spend our money and time than picking on the easiest ones: law-abiding, long-term illegal aliens who have legal citizen children. Obama's approach focusing on dangerous or criminal illegal aliens made much more sense, but it only addressed half the question.
It is clear we need to create a road to citizenship. If the GOP doesn't have the fortitude to do so, maybe we need to elect another group of legislators to do the people's work. This group seems less interested in our citizens anyway.
9
If you pay illegals cash, you can save beaucoup dollars on home improvements. I had a nice driveway poured for $9,000 that would have been $13,000 using a gringo contractor.
4
Greg Abbott and his henchmen hide inside the cloak of their Christian values while everything they do would appall Jesus of Nazareth.
8
Leon and his supporters are obviously bias toward illegals and do not care much about the law of the land and our nation's interests (including legal immigrants).
We are moving toward chaos and anarchy.
We are moving toward chaos and anarchy.
16
" illegal immigration " could be stopped within weeks, by arresting the EMPLOYERS. Just ask yourself why that isn't done.
14
Because most employers aren't, in fact, breaking the law even though they are employing illegal workers. Huh? All an employer is obligated to do is look at a Social Security card (illegal "immigrants" have ones just as good as yours) and have them fill out an I-9 (which the illegal "immigrant" happily commits perjury to complete). You can audit most employers, find out half their workforces are illegal and the employer has broken no laws. They have to have knowingly hired illegal workers or failed to do the steps above.
10
I can't help but notice how few of the commenters are actually from California. I am against ICE enforcement. I don't like their tactics, will not be a party to it, and I do not want one penny of my local tax dollars going to assist them. My husband was questioned at an ICE checkpoint a few weeks ago. His family arrived on the Mayflower, but he is also of Mexican descent. California is indelibly linked to Mexico, like it or not. We used to be part of Mexico, and a piece of paper cannot override a border, or a culture. We have contacted our friends whose immigration status may put them at risk. We have offered to store their belongings, care for their children, and help with legal counsel should the nasties come knocking on their door. God does not recognise borders.
14
"... and a piece of paper cannot override a border..."???
Sorry, you as an individual do not get to decide what is legal and what is not when it comes to illegal immigration. When immigration law is broken by foreign nationals, they get a hearing before a judge and if they cannot prove extreme hardship or refugee status, they get deported. That's the law.
They are not citizens or legal immigrants, so deportation only sends them back to their home country. Anyone who does not respect this countries sovereignty and laws deserves to be deported.
Sorry, you as an individual do not get to decide what is legal and what is not when it comes to illegal immigration. When immigration law is broken by foreign nationals, they get a hearing before a judge and if they cannot prove extreme hardship or refugee status, they get deported. That's the law.
They are not citizens or legal immigrants, so deportation only sends them back to their home country. Anyone who does not respect this countries sovereignty and laws deserves to be deported.
6
It's okay if you don't agree with ICE, as an American that is your right. However, what I find it increasingly difficult to understand is why you believe it's okay to break the law. God may not recognize borders, but he does recognize liars.
Laws are put in place to to prevent chaos and help keep an orderly society. If you don't agree with a law, then work on changing it, but in the meantime, if you are part of the problem, then you should also be charged as an accessory.
Laws are put in place to to prevent chaos and help keep an orderly society. If you don't agree with a law, then work on changing it, but in the meantime, if you are part of the problem, then you should also be charged as an accessory.
16
Maybe not, but the constitution does and the borders need to be enforced.
9
At least those rich white Californians will still be able to use this group as second class citizens. They need people to abuse and not pay taxes on so that their lawns are mowed and their kids mothered by the nanny. And dont forget that California liberals definitely need a group of people with no worker protections that can be treated like dogs so that they get all their fruit picked and packed and shipped. Theyll pay 500% more if it has an organic label on it, but not 50% more so that the workers picking that organic produce have workers comp and unemployment insurance.
Im sure Califonian liberals see no issue with protecting illegals from deportation so they can use them as second class work slaves.
Im sure Califonian liberals see no issue with protecting illegals from deportation so they can use them as second class work slaves.
16
Jacqueline: "... California liberals definitely need a group of people with no worker protections ..."
You don't know what you are talking about. In California, ALL workers are protected, regardless of their immigration status. See this booklet published by the California Department of Industrial Relations:
All Workers in California Have Rights
Department of Industrial Relations, Labor Enforcement
June 2016
https://www.dir.ca.gov/letf/What_are_your_rights_as_a_worker.pdf
You don't know what you are talking about. In California, ALL workers are protected, regardless of their immigration status. See this booklet published by the California Department of Industrial Relations:
All Workers in California Have Rights
Department of Industrial Relations, Labor Enforcement
June 2016
https://www.dir.ca.gov/letf/What_are_your_rights_as_a_worker.pdf
6
75% of California 's agriculture labor is illegal labor. It doesn't pay minimum wage, doesn't have a retirement plan, nor medical coverage. Wealthy owners of California's wineries grow rich on the back of illegal labor.
3
I remember when the Delta farmers had to be threatened with lawsuits before they provided water to their field workers. Field workers are the most vulnerable, the poorest without any benefits or respect from those of us who love that fresh lettuce and asparagus.
2
Cut off all federal funding to California. If Californians want illegal immigrants in their State that they can pay for them and everything else.
Good riddance.
Good riddance.
16
California is supposedly trying to pass a bill in which they secede from the Union. I wish them the best of luck.
9
since California gives far more $$ to the Federal government than it gets back, it will be the moocher red states that complain if California doesn't get $$ but keeps the $$ it sends to the Feds
1
Wait until the next mega-flood (like the one in 1862) comes and wipes out a great deal of California's agricultural economy by putting most of the Central Valley underwater. At that point, CA is going to need federal aid. There's also the small matter of the San Andreas fault...
2
Is entering the United States illegally a crime? Yes. But how bad a crime is it? I put it somewhere between shoplifting and littering the street. Why doesn't Congress get its act together and pass a comprehensive immigration law? It's a REAL crime that they don't do so.
Let's face it. Trump supporters don't like Spanish-speaking people from south of the border, legal or not. That's the real issue.
Let's face it. Trump supporters don't like Spanish-speaking people from south of the border, legal or not. That's the real issue.
11
I like the broad brush that you use to paint a group of people that you know nothing about.
13
Yet, if they voted Republican it would be a different story. It has less to do with color or race and more to do with votes! Likewise, the Democrats are more concerned with voters preservation than immigration reform.
2
So we deport all of those we are racially profiling (ie Hispanics from Mexico, El Salvador and other countries south of the border). Who are you going to have to do your housework, gardening and farming for cheap. Interesting that Trump is targeting the 6.2 undocumented immigrants from Mexico, yet there are another 6 million from many other countries in the world that over stay their visas or visit to the U.S. They are not coming across the border so why the border wall. There are 50,000 undocumented immigrants from Ireland. Is ICE out to get them. Some, like from China, cannot be deported because their country of origin refuses to take them back.
6
Immigration is immigration, doesn't matter what country you are from, so to say Mexico is only being singled out is wrong. The wall is being proposed because a lot of drugs and sex-trafficking are coming in through our southern border. Nice try though!
8
Perhaps you weren't aware, but Oregon is already a sanctuary state. Your face-checking seems to be a bit lax.
5
Below this article the Times promotes its' products by saying "Discover the truth with us. Select the package that works for you." How are readers supposed to discover the truth when the Times constantly refers to illegal aliens as immigrants? Why conflate the two and confuse readers? Is there an agenda? One has to really wonder. It damages their credibility while transferring it to those who refer to their publication as fake news.
In regards to California and other states foolish enough to follow its' example send in more ICE agents, make public arrests, and take away federal funding. Sheriff Youngblood was quoted in the article saying “All we are doing is providing information to the federal government so that they can do their job. To restrict that doesn’t make sense.” Of course it makes sense. One has to only look at who controls the government. Today's Democratic Party puts illegal aliens before actual citizens and the politics of appeasing a constituency (Hispanics) they depend on to be competitive in elections above the enforcement of our immigration laws. They have every political incentive imaginable to continue encouraging, protecting, and rewarding illegal immigration. The rest of the country better wake up, demand a secure border, and the enforcement of our laws or what has happened politically in California the past few decades will eventually arrive in their state governments. Once that happens there is no turning back. The threat is real. Take it serious.
In regards to California and other states foolish enough to follow its' example send in more ICE agents, make public arrests, and take away federal funding. Sheriff Youngblood was quoted in the article saying “All we are doing is providing information to the federal government so that they can do their job. To restrict that doesn’t make sense.” Of course it makes sense. One has to only look at who controls the government. Today's Democratic Party puts illegal aliens before actual citizens and the politics of appeasing a constituency (Hispanics) they depend on to be competitive in elections above the enforcement of our immigration laws. They have every political incentive imaginable to continue encouraging, protecting, and rewarding illegal immigration. The rest of the country better wake up, demand a secure border, and the enforcement of our laws or what has happened politically in California the past few decades will eventually arrive in their state governments. Once that happens there is no turning back. The threat is real. Take it serious.
21
The truth is that the definition of Alien has changed whether we like it or not. American English is a living language, words change meanings all the time. Us old folks sometimes get caught in the middle.
Alien now means little green men from Mars, or E.T. Or Aliens vs Zombies. Not people from somewhere else on this planet. So, you better get with the program. Or soon people will be asking you where you were born, do you belong here? Just because the language has passed you buy. Oh, doing what France does (forbidding words to to used that are not "French") won't work here. Too late. The language is too alive, & we steal words from all languages.
Alien now means little green men from Mars, or E.T. Or Aliens vs Zombies. Not people from somewhere else on this planet. So, you better get with the program. Or soon people will be asking you where you were born, do you belong here? Just because the language has passed you buy. Oh, doing what France does (forbidding words to to used that are not "French") won't work here. Too late. The language is too alive, & we steal words from all languages.
2
Wolfie, whether popular usage has changed or not, the laws on the books still uses "alien" which it defines as, "any person not a citizen or national of the United States." [8USC1101]. Like it or not it's still a proper usage.
8
The term in the law is "alien". It has not changed and won't. What has changed are the people who don't like words because they don't know what they mean. I, personally, have always enjoyed making people flinch when I say "niggardly".
9
Everyone knows the US is a racist, sexist, homophobic, gender challenged, violent, xenophobic, anti-secular, capitalism-addicted war-mongering country. The nation has a horrible history that exists only because of systemic, ingrained abuse and exploitation of people of color to benefit the 1% wealthy aristocratic Illuminati.
Let’s not forget the country is manipulated by corporate media propaganda run by corrupt politicians who sold their souls to special interest groups, spying on citizens in the name of national security who don’t even care about its government’s illegal acts because they are too busy playing Candy Crush and hopelessly addicted to mindless Hollywood entertainment, the latest technology, and celebrity gossip.
So any “illegal” alien will be far better off in any country but this. After deportation, they will get down on their knees and thank god President Trump saved them from America. /s
Let’s not forget the country is manipulated by corporate media propaganda run by corrupt politicians who sold their souls to special interest groups, spying on citizens in the name of national security who don’t even care about its government’s illegal acts because they are too busy playing Candy Crush and hopelessly addicted to mindless Hollywood entertainment, the latest technology, and celebrity gossip.
So any “illegal” alien will be far better off in any country but this. After deportation, they will get down on their knees and thank god President Trump saved them from America. /s
4
I know it is simplistic, but why do we go after the "undocumented worker" but not the employer? Why not shut down the employers? Here's where it gets complex and tangled. How many citizens are willing to pick crops in the blazing sun? How many are willing to be day laborers in construction? How many are willing to care for our sick and elderly for less than a living wage?
8
Here's why. All an employer is required to do under current law is look at a Social Security card or other work authorizing document and have the prospective employee fill out an I-9 form under oath. Social Security cards as good as yours are available on the streets of America very inexpensively. And illegal workers happily commit perjury to fill out an I-9. Employers hire illegal workers every day without breaking any lawss.
We need better laws. We need mandatory eVerify with workplace audits of its use.
We need better laws. We need mandatory eVerify with workplace audits of its use.
15
I grew up in the Central Valley where Mexicans worked in the fields. The answer to your question is, none. Many will work for less pay in construction; and many are the kind and caring people who take care of our old people in homes and institutions. The Mexican families I grew up with were much kinder to their old relatives than the dust bowl migrants who streamed into CA. My grandfather hired Mexican boys to work on his ranch, because they worked hard and were honest.
And who benefits? The consumer!
Message to those illegally passing through the southern border PLEASE stop trashing this country along the way. Illegal aliens crossing into the US not only cause damage to natural and cultural resources; they impact Federal land visitors, public services, Federal employees working in the area, and residents and businesses located on Federal and reservation lands. See attached link for just one example report on problems on federal lands in SE Arizona.
https://www.blm.gov/style/medialib/blm/az/pdfs/undoc_aliens.Par.44238.Fi...
https://www.blm.gov/style/medialib/blm/az/pdfs/undoc_aliens.Par.44238.Fi...
17
Original link to BLM report not working today, here is another similar one:
https://www.blm.gov/sites/blm.gov/files/documents/files/Southern_Arizona...
https://www.blm.gov/sites/blm.gov/files/documents/files/Southern_Arizona...
2
Adam. U are right. People also ignore the fact that many of these people lose their lives when crossing the border. That doesn't mean we should make it easier, quite the opposite. We should make it clear that they will be deterred and if they get thru the border sent back swiftly. This will not only reduce the environmental destruction but save lives.
11
Why are we failing to admit that we need these people economically and making them legal?
It would seem simple to deport those convicted of violent crimes if that were all we were doing.
It would seem simple to deport those convicted of violent crimes if that were all we were doing.
3
Here's the problem: the last time we did that on a large scale, with Reagan's misbegotten amnesty of 1986, a reported half of the newly legalized workers left their jobs and went into the jobs Americans absolutely will do. You see, the reason ag work is being done by illegal Hispanic workers is because they are illegal, not because they are Hispanic.
13
OK, pay $50 bucks per pint for strawberries. Probably bruised as the pickers won't be well trained. Most will be from the local minimum security prison. See, these people who want all immigrants deported (most don't care about legal, illegal, just get rid of the brown people who talk funny). Those who used to do the work, won't touch it now. For under $100 an hour, even if they are the 3rd generation since Gramps picked on a strawberry farm, & they & Dad have never worked. They are too 'good' for the work, so will ask for high enough wages so they won't get hired. They LIKE being unemployed. Unless of course if the unemployed are brown or black, then it is terrible, deport, them ALL.
Being an illegal is not so different from being a runaway slave, the south made northerners give back if found. It was slave owners beliefs that all white people should want all Black people to be slaves. It made them of higher quality, to have all 'them' below. So, to keep the peace, laws were passed,that made being Black off the plantation (in the north or south) a severely punishable offense. Even if you were a freeman & had proof. They would take you & make you a slave, because all slaves lie. Same today with brown people. If these uppity whites (most so low on the decency scale as to not register at all) say brown people must go, they must. I say these uppity low class whites should go first. There is a large group who left the US after the Civil War & established a town in Mexico. Go there
Being an illegal is not so different from being a runaway slave, the south made northerners give back if found. It was slave owners beliefs that all white people should want all Black people to be slaves. It made them of higher quality, to have all 'them' below. So, to keep the peace, laws were passed,that made being Black off the plantation (in the north or south) a severely punishable offense. Even if you were a freeman & had proof. They would take you & make you a slave, because all slaves lie. Same today with brown people. If these uppity whites (most so low on the decency scale as to not register at all) say brown people must go, they must. I say these uppity low class whites should go first. There is a large group who left the US after the Civil War & established a town in Mexico. Go there
1
Then how come the 50,000 illegal Irish aren't picking vegetables (number found elsewhere here), only Hispanic illegals?
1
Best answer for all is for the California elites to move forward on their threats to leave the Union.
11
Here's a Massachusetts non elite, who says until they start deporting all the Irish & other white illegal immigrants, I don't think any state or local police should help the Feds. Now if you're white your safe, even if you steal or murder, or marry, have kids then abandon them, your country of origin will protect you. You don't owe anything. You don't even have to 'go home' for them to protect you. Just move to another state, marry another woman, start another family (cause YOU don't believe in contraception). You consider all the money your wife earns yours. So, let it build up some, take it and skeedaddle. Go 'home', get an easy annulment (That is why you wouldn't marry in the church, right?), marry your high school sweetheart & buy her a house with your, still married to you,wife's money, in the states. Your governments loves the money you bring in. The church erases your marriage, there, as if written in pencil. Here your wife can't get divorced from you because Ireland won't admit you are there. So, we should look hard, find all you 'I just overstayed my visa', for 20 years' illegals, deport you with just the clothes on your back & a signature on her quicky divorce. With you saying everything is her's & the kids. See if your sweetheart still wants you.
6
William, Californians, most of whom have immigrated here from states all over the country that offered no economic opportunities, are really fed up with people like you making knee jerk comments like "California elites" etc. etc. Hey, 99% of us are people just like you who work for a living. I bet you've had a latte too.
In any case, whatever name calling you indulge in, we have a right to our political, social, and cultural views -- again, just like you -- without being told to "leave the Union." The connotations of that word, "Union," says a lot about your probable political views. If California did "leave the Union," Colorado might miss it more than it would miss Colorado.
In any case, whatever name calling you indulge in, we have a right to our political, social, and cultural views -- again, just like you -- without being told to "leave the Union." The connotations of that word, "Union," says a lot about your probable political views. If California did "leave the Union," Colorado might miss it more than it would miss Colorado.
9
the idea behind sanctuary is so that people who while here without proper papers but are in no other way violating laws, do not need to live in fear, be pushed into underground illegal activities for survival etc. It is both compassionate and a mature way to govern.
11
Let's apply this to every other law as well. After all, being selective about enforcement should always be an option. Ex: if I steal 100$ bucks from you, whats the harm, you have plenty.
12
The myth of the otherwise law-abiding illegal alien is powerful, but it is not grounded in truth. Even if you ignore illegal entry and reentry or stays beyond visa expiration, how many “law abiding” aliens have registered and been fingerprinted as REQUIRED by Federal law (8 U.S.C. § 1302). This applies to EVERY alien including children that remains in the United States for 30 days or longer.
Since its generally illegal for undocumented foreign nationals (exception for DACA) to work in the US, how many break serious laws by utilizing/purchasing fraudulent documents such as counterfeit Social Security cards, fake “green cards,” and phony birth certificates to illegally obtain employment.
What other laws against harboring, identity theft, false statements to law enforcement or on school or government paperwork have been committed? In addition, how many aliens are working under the table and fail to file a Fed/State tax return or drive without a license, insurance or registration (prohibited in 40 states)? That leaves how many otherwise “law abiding” aliens?
Since its generally illegal for undocumented foreign nationals (exception for DACA) to work in the US, how many break serious laws by utilizing/purchasing fraudulent documents such as counterfeit Social Security cards, fake “green cards,” and phony birth certificates to illegally obtain employment.
What other laws against harboring, identity theft, false statements to law enforcement or on school or government paperwork have been committed? In addition, how many aliens are working under the table and fail to file a Fed/State tax return or drive without a license, insurance or registration (prohibited in 40 states)? That leaves how many otherwise “law abiding” aliens?
8
They take the jobs you wouldn't do even if your kids where starving. Get real. Take a job cleaning public toilets 14 hours a day, not with any machine, but with your own hands, scrub the floors too. Work harvest in farmers' fields 14-18 hours a day including in rain, storms, lightning, even sleet & snow. Must get them in before they are ruined. Don't care about you, just do the job, hurry hurry, Do the work of landscaping for a high school dropout who starts a business, & pays you next to nothing, to undercut the competition, & makes you do all the hard work. While he nuzzles the man's wife. Better be perfect. Don't say anything or he will 'suddenly' realize you are an illegal & turn you in. Would they like better work. Of course they would. But, do they want your job? Nope. Cause it would put them in too much danger of being deported.
So, since these jobs need to be done. You won't do any of them. Lets start doing this right. Deport the illegals. Take every kid who drops out, give them one of these jobs for life. No quitting, no days off, no vacations, no health insurance, below minimum wage for very long hours. No GED courses. Tell the people these kids will be working for to treat them just the same as they did the illegals. Except they can't fire them. They can dock their pay hours for shirking minutes. Don't have to follow any laws about breaks, lunch, etc. Pay em under the table. So, no SS & Medicare, no income taxes taken out either. They have to pay those. Seems FAIR
So, since these jobs need to be done. You won't do any of them. Lets start doing this right. Deport the illegals. Take every kid who drops out, give them one of these jobs for life. No quitting, no days off, no vacations, no health insurance, below minimum wage for very long hours. No GED courses. Tell the people these kids will be working for to treat them just the same as they did the illegals. Except they can't fire them. They can dock their pay hours for shirking minutes. Don't have to follow any laws about breaks, lunch, etc. Pay em under the table. So, no SS & Medicare, no income taxes taken out either. They have to pay those. Seems FAIR
4
It boggles my mind that my tax money is going to pay for two ICE staff people and a car (what DOES that cost) to go out and apprehend someone who is probably working and paying taxes themselves. In what world does that make sense?
13
A world in an Orwell novel.
Probability of illegals paying income taxes is not just low, it is 0.
You need a social security number to pay the taxes.
You need a social security number to pay the taxes.
2
@PJM
It boggles my mind that my tax money is going to pay for two cops and a car (what DOES that cost) to go out and apprehend a criminal who is probably working and paying taxes themselves. In what world does that make sense?
See how easy it is to turn your logic around.
It boggles my mind that my tax money is going to pay for two cops and a car (what DOES that cost) to go out and apprehend a criminal who is probably working and paying taxes themselves. In what world does that make sense?
See how easy it is to turn your logic around.
1
utterly ridiculous. Here come all the illegals and illegal criminals pouring over our CA borders to use our taxpayer dollars to plead their case in court, be housed and fed in prison while detained, and get free or cheap housing to keep them off the streets while American citizens and veterans who are already sleeping on the street in tents get nothing from city, state, or federal monies. Then we have to pay to either give health insurance to illegals or just birth their babies on "charity care" that gets written off as a cost that then gets passed thru to the CA taxpayers. Them use our tax dollars to fund Head Start programs to babysit the kids (unless they also smuggle over abuelita and abuelita y mas familia for a free ride in exchange for babysitting). Then we pony up for WIC and food stamps. Then we pay to educate them - in their own language, of course - plus provide free school lunches. Then, it's off to high school, gangs, drug dealing, more teen births, more obesity, more diabetes and heart disease - all on the CA taxpayer dime. When they get to the border, they should be shuffled right on down to Tijuana and keep heading south. As for myself, I will continue to clean my own home without their kind underpaid assistance. Considering how politically and financially-savvy Jerry Brown is, this one is a total fail. Just say NO
28
Undocumented immigrants can't get any of the benefits you claim. Their children who are born here are citizens, and are eligible for a f
4
So, better idea. Any kid (no matter immigration status or color) gets involved in a gang or drugs. The whole family is incarcerated. From new borns through grampa. In your family that includes YOU. Even if you pull down a salary of 10 million dollars. Kid gets 50 years for murder, so does whole family. It's only FAIR. Oh, all assets of family: property, investments, stocks, bank accounts, college funds; all goes for keeping you & yours in prison. That newborn? Stays in prison for life. Everyone for life.
5
Resharpen:
Yes, the baby born here is an American citizen, but who eats the food purchased with food stamp funds, who lives in the housing provided by Section 8, and who spends the welfare checks in the baby's name? Classic case of "using the baby" as an excuse argument. However, the irony is that should this illegal mother give birth to a baby in her native country, the government would feel no obligation whatsoever to provide for her child!
Yes, the baby born here is an American citizen, but who eats the food purchased with food stamp funds, who lives in the housing provided by Section 8, and who spends the welfare checks in the baby's name? Classic case of "using the baby" as an excuse argument. However, the irony is that should this illegal mother give birth to a baby in her native country, the government would feel no obligation whatsoever to provide for her child!
5
California will let in all of these mostly Hispanic immigrants and cram them into poor neighborhoods. Some will find jobs, which as many others have mentioned will lead to lower wages. Many will have a difficult time finding work because of the shrinking amount of jobs, so some will turn to crime. Crime rates go up, which will include drug abuse. Now you have an increased presence of drugs, which will harm the Hispanic communities and especially the black communities. Their children will struggle with school because of the language gap, and the schools will struggle to handle them. Many children will feel helpless and fail, and when they become teenagers and young adults, they will turn to crime. Now you have gangs. And because most of them are Hispanic, they will not be blamed for any of this. Americans will be held responsible because we were too racist or xenophobic, and so the only solution is to let more of them in and throw more money at them.
Why do Democrats do this? They always shoot themselves in the foot. They rail against poverty, crime, drugs, gangs, low wages, inequality etc. but then enact polices that directly lead to many of those things. And for what? To pat themselves on the back and congratulate themselves for being so open-minded and "diverse"? Please, let's have reasonable solutions for illegal immigration...not things like this.
Why do Democrats do this? They always shoot themselves in the foot. They rail against poverty, crime, drugs, gangs, low wages, inequality etc. but then enact polices that directly lead to many of those things. And for what? To pat themselves on the back and congratulate themselves for being so open-minded and "diverse"? Please, let's have reasonable solutions for illegal immigration...not things like this.
28
Banana republic time. California's moving toward Latin American-style oligarchy with:
- an extraordinary concentration of wealth at the top,
- a majority underclass imported from the poorest regions of Mexico and C. America, and
- a shrinking, harried middle class that's leaving as fast as it can.
Where you have the above, you also have weak rule of law and poor governance. In countries like Brazil, Mexico, Colombia etc. the government neglects, steals from, and brutalizes the governed.
California long ago passed the first stage of decay: a governing elite so inattentive, foolish and inept that it fails to perform basic functions of government.
While our leaders preen and posture about identity politics and enviro-vanity measures, they fail to:
- maintain our dams. Result: thousands of CA residents now homeless because of an overflowing creek (!) in San Jose and a dam near Sacramento.
- maintain our roads. Result: worst highways in the nation, third-world caliber, racked with potholes that make driving to SF or Oakland the equivalent of an obstacle course.
- enforce immigration laws. Result: schools that are now 49th in the US due to a majority demographic (52% latino, er, I mean "latinx") that cares little about educational achievement.
- manage rapacious public sector unions. Result: insolvent pension funds, exorbitant taxation, unfunded universities.
Mexifornia, here we come.
- an extraordinary concentration of wealth at the top,
- a majority underclass imported from the poorest regions of Mexico and C. America, and
- a shrinking, harried middle class that's leaving as fast as it can.
Where you have the above, you also have weak rule of law and poor governance. In countries like Brazil, Mexico, Colombia etc. the government neglects, steals from, and brutalizes the governed.
California long ago passed the first stage of decay: a governing elite so inattentive, foolish and inept that it fails to perform basic functions of government.
While our leaders preen and posture about identity politics and enviro-vanity measures, they fail to:
- maintain our dams. Result: thousands of CA residents now homeless because of an overflowing creek (!) in San Jose and a dam near Sacramento.
- maintain our roads. Result: worst highways in the nation, third-world caliber, racked with potholes that make driving to SF or Oakland the equivalent of an obstacle course.
- enforce immigration laws. Result: schools that are now 49th in the US due to a majority demographic (52% latino, er, I mean "latinx") that cares little about educational achievement.
- manage rapacious public sector unions. Result: insolvent pension funds, exorbitant taxation, unfunded universities.
Mexifornia, here we come.
26
T-Bone
The flood victims in San Jose, some of whom are still homeless, and those affected by the Oroville Dam disaster are unfortunately not the Californians who Sacramento lawmakers care about or consider a priority!
The flood victims in San Jose, some of whom are still homeless, and those affected by the Oroville Dam disaster are unfortunately not the Californians who Sacramento lawmakers care about or consider a priority!
3
California government is not run for the benefit of its citizens.
And yet we continue to elect those that routinely betray us.
This will not end well.
And yet we continue to elect those that routinely betray us.
This will not end well.
21
Now that California has become a sanctuary state, get ready for all the illegal immigrants to descend upon this state. The residents will be inundated with all kinds of people pouring into their communities and there is no telling who is coming. Are they decent people, gang members or other criminals that will terrorize the locals? They must be concerned for their safety and I feel awfully sorry for these people. In addition, their property taxes which are sky high now will even be higher. If they have children, the schools will become even more crowded and certain programs may be elimimated and replaced with foreign-language classes. This is a terrible injustice thrust upon these decent people
40
Wow. Fear monger much?
Here in California, we aren't afraid of people who speak differently, look different, worship differently, or want a better life for themselves and their families. We also recognize and are abundantly grateful for the immigrants who are the backbone of our agricultural industry, our hospitality industry, and our tech industry; not to mention all those immigrants who teach and take care of our children, and look after our elderly.
Nobody will be "flooding across the border" to rape and murder us all in our beds, or gun us down in the streets. Nor will anyone who attempts to do so be protected from prosecution (or eventual deportation). Criminal laws are not being changed or even ignored. Only the Nazi SS-style roundup of harmless, entirely innocent civilians whose only crime is wanting a better life.
Here in California, we aren't afraid of people who speak differently, look different, worship differently, or want a better life for themselves and their families. We also recognize and are abundantly grateful for the immigrants who are the backbone of our agricultural industry, our hospitality industry, and our tech industry; not to mention all those immigrants who teach and take care of our children, and look after our elderly.
Nobody will be "flooding across the border" to rape and murder us all in our beds, or gun us down in the streets. Nor will anyone who attempts to do so be protected from prosecution (or eventual deportation). Criminal laws are not being changed or even ignored. Only the Nazi SS-style roundup of harmless, entirely innocent civilians whose only crime is wanting a better life.
8
Wow. Pretty much every tired, dishonest left wing cliche' ever trotted out to justify the mess that is California.
8
Kim: I appreciate the heart behind your comment. I do not want to see undocumenteds deported. But I suspect people will move to sanctuary states if they need sanctuary. No, it will not be murderers and rapists. But people will go to safety. So not sure where this will all lead. We need appropriate federal laws, applied everywhere. That is where this SHOULD lead.
Immigration reform that is humanitarian should be the goal.
Immigration reform that is humanitarian should be the goal.
2
Wow! To actually invite the invasion of your state, and our country by foreign peoples illegally crossing our border - and it is our border, not California's. This senator who introduced this should be impeached. This is our country. Not California's country. Should the federal government order troops in to occupy this state for their treason, at least now we'll know why.
21
Treason? There is no Federal law which requires a state to assist in the enforcement of Federal immigration law ... nor does the Constitution require it.
It is you who is recommending an unconstitutional act ... sending the military into a state to require that state to do what the Constitution does not require it to do.
It is you who is recommending an unconstitutional act ... sending the military into a state to require that state to do what the Constitution does not require it to do.
7
Treason, huh? You mean like colluding with Russia to get elected? T
7
Well, Ken and Kim, the border of California is not "their" border. It is the border of the United States, and California is not a sovereign country. They don't make laws for the rest of us, and by violating our laws on immigration - in our country - they are betraying the rest if us. That's treason. California is a state of the United States, and if they refuse to obey the superior law of our land and the people of this country, the federal government would have every right - and duty - to protect the interests of the people of this country and federalize the police there, and occupy it should they continue in their rebellion against our laws and our government. "California" exists by the consent of the people of the United States. The last time states tried to defy the Federal govenment is 1860, things didn't turn out well for them, and it won't turn out well for California, either. They deserve nothing more than our contempt for this, and if our government wants to deport all the illegals in that state, they have every right and authority, by the power of the American people, to just go in there and do that, if Californians won't do it themselves. California would be wise not to keep this up, because if they do, they will find out who is really in charge of their state.
11
This legislation is an illustration of the problems that occur where one political party dominates the state government. Jerry Brown is of course a quintessential liberal Democrat and and the legislature is controlled by a super-majority of his party. The situation is so tilted that our liberal governor has frequent vetoed or refused to sign some particularly extreme legislation. Hopefully he will follow suit to veto this unprincipled and unconstitutional act. What is ironic is that California and undocumented advocates have successfully urged courts that previous state efforts such as Proposition 187, which attempted to deny benefits to undocumented aliens, violate the Constitution's express declaration that immigration is a federal concern. This latest effort turns that argument on its head,but is unconstitutional for the same reason. California has decided that all federal immigration acts will be suspended in this state and that most persons who reach the state, regardless of whether they are legally entitled to be in the United States, will be sheltered against deportation. Effectively California is making immigration policy, a matter that is expressly reserved to the federal government. The Constitution expressly states that such state regulation is preempted.
26
Actually, to be fair, Brown has served to restrain many of his fellow Democrats. The next governor, lacking Brown's judgment and experience, is likely to be California's death knell.
3
Oh, so much more room in Kansas.
5
NYTimes, please read the complaint filed by Santa Clara County against the Federal Government, asking for clarification of the Federal Government's right to withhold federal funds unrelated to law enforcement based on its refusal to commit to holding undocumented immigrants for the period necessary for ICE to take custody. One reason for non-compliance is the cost - it costs roughly $160 per night to hold someone. The feds have not agreed to pay these costs. Another is potential liability. Holding someone in jail without a warrant sets the county up for litigation and liability. As to withholding federal funding in general, there is a Supreme Court decision ruling that the feds cannot coerce compliance with federal laws by withholding federal funds for initiatives unrelated to the enforcement issue. Santa Clara has specifically declined federal funds related to law enforcement in order to avoid this risk. California is 46th in ranking of states for funds it receives from the feds, so it contributes much more in tax revenues than it receives in federal support. The feds do not have the authority to compel state law enforcement to act as agents of the feds for law enforcement purposes, there is nothing unlawful in making this position clear. Given that the "law enforcement" issues raised by the Trump administration are largely an invented problem (most immigrants are law abiding), there is no reason to create police states for immigrants.
6
Thank you for your input regarding a little thought of negative impact the federal government is having on municipalities.
This split between states and the federal government is an old one in American history--from the states rights ideology of the southern slave states to the opponents of integrated schools in the wake of Brown v. Board of Education to movements in Texas to defy abortion rights and separation of church and state.
What is interesting about the sanctuary city and state movement is that comes from liberals and the left--those who oppose the federal government's efforts to stop immigration of the wrong sorts of people and to deport many who are already here.
The quarrel will shape political and constitutional questions in the next few years
What is interesting about the sanctuary city and state movement is that comes from liberals and the left--those who oppose the federal government's efforts to stop immigration of the wrong sorts of people and to deport many who are already here.
The quarrel will shape political and constitutional questions in the next few years
4
California should just get rid of all laws so we can see what a lawless society degrades to. Combine that with free college, free housing and free food so noone has to work. Reminds me of Lord of the Flies.
12
If California does this, it is no different from the various nullification movements that have cropped up periodically in our history--the most serious being those that built up to the Civil War. As painful as it will be, California has no choice but to submit to the primacy clause and recognize that federal law must always take precedence over state law. The civil rights movement and environmental laws are two shining examples of why this must be so. Sadly, the Dred Scott decision was the evil flip side of our constitutional system. The rights of illegal immigrants are not the equivalent of chattel slavery and definitely not worth provoking a legal crisis that could have tragic consequences. Voting Trump and his minions from office will be the sweetest and most effective way to deal with this problem.
4
You are fundamentally confused. It is not a case of Federal law versus state law. No law is being nullified. There is no Federal law which requires a state to assist the Federal government in the execution if immigration laws.
7
Actually, one can argue that several laws related to criminal facilitation and being complicit in a crime are being broken here.
It would be worth while to charge these legislators as accomplices in any crime committed by an illegal if he was under police custody and police failed to report his status to federal authorities.
It would be worth while to charge these legislators as accomplices in any crime committed by an illegal if he was under police custody and police failed to report his status to federal authorities.
5
Good.
The general police power should be returned to the states, all of the states, and not just about the things that Californians care most about.
Join us and we'll join you.
The general police power should be returned to the states, all of the states, and not just about the things that Californians care most about.
Join us and we'll join you.
1
Why must any state declare itself a "sanctuary state"? If the aim is to be uncooperative with the federal government when it concerns illegal aliens, why not just be uncooperative? Why the showy display of chest thumping pride and the unsubtle hints that these states consider themselves morally superior? The obvious answer lies in politics. These "sanctuary state" initiatives are driven almost entirely by Democrat politicians looking to curry favor with Latino voters. The self-righteous thunder of being on the right side of history, being more attuned to civil rights ("no human being is illegal"), etc, is transparently phony, which makes these political ploys all the more disgustingly cynical. Even worse, you're automatically a suspected racist if you oppose such initiatives.
25
Sadly you are correct.
For too long too many have been too silent and cynicism has become a birthright.
We are too far down that lonesome road and the country that was the USA is lost forever.
For too long too many have been too silent and cynicism has become a birthright.
We are too far down that lonesome road and the country that was the USA is lost forever.
3
Um, isn't it pretty obvious? It's so that it can be assured on a state-level that all areas are safe, not just on a jurisdictional basis.
The example is right in the article. While California does not comply with ICE requests as a practice, Mendota still communicates with ICE on a jurisdiction level. Creating sanctuary status on a state level through legislation would remove any inconsistencies in policy application, including Mendota's communication with ICE.
The example is right in the article. While California does not comply with ICE requests as a practice, Mendota still communicates with ICE on a jurisdiction level. Creating sanctuary status on a state level through legislation would remove any inconsistencies in policy application, including Mendota's communication with ICE.
1
Perhaps when the families of victims of violent crimes committed by illegal immigrants sue such states like California are awarded hundreds of millions of dollars for failing to protect citizens from illegal immigrants with criminals records, maybe state legislators will change their tune.
32
Maybe we should start arresting the employers who hire these desperate people.
1
Or maybe we should allow Border Patrol officers to be extradited to Mexico when they shoot young Mexicans just on the other side of the border (kids that have no weapons nor are a threat to the BP officer). These rarely make the news and when they do, not many Americans care about the lives of the kids there. Our government does nothing about even disciplining these Border Patrol officers.
2
California's policy applies to non-violent crime.
1
Cut off Federal funds. California will quickly change it tune and begin enforcing laws.
31
The feds cannot compel local law enforcement to enforce federal laws. The Supreme Court has ruled that attempts to do so are a violation of the Tenth Amendment. Federal agencies are obviously at liberty to enforce federal laws but local agencies cannot be compelled (or state or local governments extorted) to do the feds work.
1
States are coequals with the Federal Government.
It's Californias decision to take .
Incidentally California is in absolute terms the largest net contributor of any State to the Federal income, compare that to Wisconsin which is subsidized by California and others as Wisconsin receives around$1.80 for every $1 contributed.
It's time other States paid their way and as Mr Trump insists rightly that every member of NATO should pay its fair share so should every State.
I don't think California should secede from the USA but we and our politicians including my Congressman Issa must insist we are treated fairly
It's Californias decision to take .
Incidentally California is in absolute terms the largest net contributor of any State to the Federal income, compare that to Wisconsin which is subsidized by California and others as Wisconsin receives around$1.80 for every $1 contributed.
It's time other States paid their way and as Mr Trump insists rightly that every member of NATO should pay its fair share so should every State.
I don't think California should secede from the USA but we and our politicians including my Congressman Issa must insist we are treated fairly
2
This is not about enforcing federal laws. It is about reporting violation of federal laws.
As a private citizen I cannot enforce laws, but I can be charges for criminal facilitation if I fail to report violation of a law by someone else.
As a private citizen I cannot enforce laws, but I can be charges for criminal facilitation if I fail to report violation of a law by someone else.
2
Our immigration system is NOT broken. The only thing wrong with it is that we have not been enforcing laws which are already on the books. Why is this so hard to understand?
I would also like to know which laws the rest of us may routinely ignore. If I stop paying my taxes, can I move to California and be safe? How about traffic laws? Why should I have to obey them? They violate my right to do whatever I like.
This insistence that lawbreakers should be rewarded is mind-boggling.
I would also like to know which laws the rest of us may routinely ignore. If I stop paying my taxes, can I move to California and be safe? How about traffic laws? Why should I have to obey them? They violate my right to do whatever I like.
This insistence that lawbreakers should be rewarded is mind-boggling.
55
Clearly you have never been hungry long term, experienced the continual torment of gangs, or had to protect your children in a country where rape of young women is prevalent, the beating and killing of young men who don't join gangs is "normal," and the police officers expect bribes in order to even come take a report--that is promptly discarded.
Please, people, just for a moment forget that you are a privileged American and consider that so many other parts of the world have people longing to just see their child survive her or his teen years.
Please, people, just for a moment forget that you are a privileged American and consider that so many other parts of the world have people longing to just see their child survive her or his teen years.
2
@kathleen880 in Ohio,
Clearly you've had no meaningful interactions with immigrants, legal or illegal. Our immigration is so broken it is not enforceable in a meaningful way--the law can be so contradictory that you think you're obeying it when you are not.
I've known a number of people who did it "by the book"; it took many years, boatloads of money and lawyers, truckloads of paper and a truly insane level of bureaucratic hassle. In the meantime, these people spent years of having to skip work to show up for meetings with immigration officials--and if they failed to show up, their entire application was at risk. One family was deported (all of them, kids too) because their lawyer had made a mistake on a form. This system needs to be completely overhauled and until it is we will have a mess on our hands.
I don't favor "open borders"'; I think we should know who is here and when they got here. But the system we have is worse than useless and we spend a fortune in taxpayer's $$$ trying to enforce an unenforceable mess.
Clearly you've had no meaningful interactions with immigrants, legal or illegal. Our immigration is so broken it is not enforceable in a meaningful way--the law can be so contradictory that you think you're obeying it when you are not.
I've known a number of people who did it "by the book"; it took many years, boatloads of money and lawyers, truckloads of paper and a truly insane level of bureaucratic hassle. In the meantime, these people spent years of having to skip work to show up for meetings with immigration officials--and if they failed to show up, their entire application was at risk. One family was deported (all of them, kids too) because their lawyer had made a mistake on a form. This system needs to be completely overhauled and until it is we will have a mess on our hands.
I don't favor "open borders"'; I think we should know who is here and when they got here. But the system we have is worse than useless and we spend a fortune in taxpayer's $$$ trying to enforce an unenforceable mess.
2
Strange logic. By this logic more that half of the world should be allowed to move to U.S.
4
If scientists at the Humboldt telescope seek to truly study extraterrestrial life, they need only aim it at San Francisco--and Sacramento.
17
"Humboldt telescope" - I love it. Isn't that right next to the Arcata Space Station?
4
I think you know what she was referring to. No need to mock her in order to self-validate. My iPad autocorrects and suggests inaccurate words and phrases all the time, etc.
1
"California State Senate approved a bill last week that increased protections for immigrants..." ???
Stop pandering with politically correct but deceptive labels. "Illegal" aliens are NO MORE immigrants than squatters of vacant apartment buildings are "unleased" tenants or shoplifters just "unreceipted" customers.
The term "undocumented immigrant" does not appear anywhere in The Immigration Reform and Control Act (IRCA) of 1986 or President Trump’s Executive Order 13768. To be accurate "illegal" aliens ARE NOT immigrants, they are foreign nationals who intentionally broke US immigration laws and are secretly hiding in a country have no legal right to be in.
The immigration laws ONLY define two types of people in the United States: citizens of the United States and aliens. Aliens may be lawful permanent residents (immigrants) or nonimmigrant aliens admitted to the United States for a temporary visit. Aliens who are not residents or nonimmigrant visitors are in the United States illegally.
Truth matters.
Stop pandering with politically correct but deceptive labels. "Illegal" aliens are NO MORE immigrants than squatters of vacant apartment buildings are "unleased" tenants or shoplifters just "unreceipted" customers.
The term "undocumented immigrant" does not appear anywhere in The Immigration Reform and Control Act (IRCA) of 1986 or President Trump’s Executive Order 13768. To be accurate "illegal" aliens ARE NOT immigrants, they are foreign nationals who intentionally broke US immigration laws and are secretly hiding in a country have no legal right to be in.
The immigration laws ONLY define two types of people in the United States: citizens of the United States and aliens. Aliens may be lawful permanent residents (immigrants) or nonimmigrant aliens admitted to the United States for a temporary visit. Aliens who are not residents or nonimmigrant visitors are in the United States illegally.
Truth matters.
45
And words matter. In English, someone who enters a country -- whether legally or illegally -- with the intent of permanently establishing residence there is an immigrant. Period. It's what the word means.
1
If someone "intends" to withdraw money from a bank "illegally" (say a bank robber), the act of intent does not change them from a criminal to a bank customer.
Immigration implies LEGAL entry. Just examine the DHS definition. The legal definition of "Alien - Any person not a citizen or national of the United States." In the "permanent resident alien" definition the following appears. "An illegal alien who entered the United States without inspection... is not a permanent resident alien."
https://www.dhs.gov/immigration-statistics/data-standards-and-definition...
Nowhere in the comprehensive Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 is the word undocumented used. Foreign nationals are referred to as aliens. While the word immigrant is used it is not used the same way as a dictionary definition.
So technically, the law refers to "illegal" aliens as foreign nationals AND NOT IMMIGRANTS.
Immigration implies LEGAL entry. Just examine the DHS definition. The legal definition of "Alien - Any person not a citizen or national of the United States." In the "permanent resident alien" definition the following appears. "An illegal alien who entered the United States without inspection... is not a permanent resident alien."
https://www.dhs.gov/immigration-statistics/data-standards-and-definition...
Nowhere in the comprehensive Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 is the word undocumented used. Foreign nationals are referred to as aliens. While the word immigrant is used it is not used the same way as a dictionary definition.
So technically, the law refers to "illegal" aliens as foreign nationals AND NOT IMMIGRANTS.
6
The astounding natural beauty and salubrious climate have kept us in California but my wife and I have essentially reached our limit.
Mediocre administration, rampant gang activity, high levels of taxation, and now government-enabled lawlessness.
California used to be what dreams were made of. If you do what's right and play by the rules, not so much anymore.
Mediocre administration, rampant gang activity, high levels of taxation, and now government-enabled lawlessness.
California used to be what dreams were made of. If you do what's right and play by the rules, not so much anymore.
39
The California Dream is now officially the California Nightmare--thanks to Jerry Brown, Gavin Newsome, Kamala Harris, DeLeon and the entire wacko legislature.
26
A bit off subject but isn't Wells Fargo a California based bank, located in Nancy Pelosi's district.
Haven't heard much from her on this subject....
Haven't heard much from her on this subject....
2
trust me, if hispanics were more likely to vote republican,
the democrats would be showing them back to the border.
yesterday.
this has nothing to do with empathy or equality.
when it comes to politics, with either of the two
major parties, in the words of long time
californian al davis "just win baby!"
the democrats would be showing them back to the border.
yesterday.
this has nothing to do with empathy or equality.
when it comes to politics, with either of the two
major parties, in the words of long time
californian al davis "just win baby!"
37
Totally true!
7
Agriculture, construction, home care, all rely heavily on both documented and undocumented workers. Immigrants of both sorts contribute far more to our economy than you are perhaps willing to recognize, and both groups have a lower rate of violent crime than native born citizens. When undocumented workers fear for their families and don't show up to work, crops rot in the fields, things go unbuilt, and people and animals go uncared for. When employers try hiring legal immigrants or citizens, most of the jobs go unfilled. We've turned a blind eye as a nation to the way our economy is supported at the bottom level by undocumented workers, so is it really fair, just, or humanitarian to suddenly deport people who have been working here for a decade (the average time an undocumented person has been living in the U.S.), to break up their families, to send young adults who have only ever known life in the U.S. to a country they do not remember and have no ties to?
Also, net migration across the Mexican border has for some years been at zero or actually INTO Mexico. Undocumented immigration that is on the rise is mainly from Central America, sub-saharan Africa, and some Asian countries.
Also, net migration across the Mexican border has for some years been at zero or actually INTO Mexico. Undocumented immigration that is on the rise is mainly from Central America, sub-saharan Africa, and some Asian countries.
46
Enough with this "we need their labor" canard.
Agricultural laborers make up a tiny % of the illegals - not more than 4% at most. Those jobs can easily be filled by a resumption of the _bracero_ guest-worker program.
Construction jobs could easily be filled by native-born workers. Even in the boomtowns of the Bay Area we have tens of thousands of young unemployed African-American males who could be getting their lives in order if they could have a shot at jobs with decent working conditions and decent wages.
Illegal immigration destroys such hopes. It hurts wages and enables unscrupulous employers to prey upon workers. It is a scourge that no civilized nation tolerates.
There is nothing progressive about illegal immigration or protecting illegal immigrants.
It boggles the mind to see progressives in this country defending what no other country's working man's / left-liberal party would ever support.
Agricultural laborers make up a tiny % of the illegals - not more than 4% at most. Those jobs can easily be filled by a resumption of the _bracero_ guest-worker program.
Construction jobs could easily be filled by native-born workers. Even in the boomtowns of the Bay Area we have tens of thousands of young unemployed African-American males who could be getting their lives in order if they could have a shot at jobs with decent working conditions and decent wages.
Illegal immigration destroys such hopes. It hurts wages and enables unscrupulous employers to prey upon workers. It is a scourge that no civilized nation tolerates.
There is nothing progressive about illegal immigration or protecting illegal immigrants.
It boggles the mind to see progressives in this country defending what no other country's working man's / left-liberal party would ever support.
11
The enforcement of the nation's immigration laws is necessarily of the purview of the Federal government, as the Constitution grants the federal government the power to establish "uniform Rule of Naturalization".
Imagine the chaos if each state could admit its own immigrants from foreign countries and manage its own international borders. I think this debate was settled centuries ago.
California's proposed action would fly in the face of our federal system of government.
And if state officials in California take affirmative steps to thwart the enforcement of the federal immigration laws in concert with illegal immigrants (as opposed to simply refusing to take action, which is their right of course), I'd support federal indictments against these officials for criminal conspiracy.
Imagine the chaos if each state could admit its own immigrants from foreign countries and manage its own international borders. I think this debate was settled centuries ago.
California's proposed action would fly in the face of our federal system of government.
And if state officials in California take affirmative steps to thwart the enforcement of the federal immigration laws in concert with illegal immigrants (as opposed to simply refusing to take action, which is their right of course), I'd support federal indictments against these officials for criminal conspiracy.
46
You are confused. States are not constitutionally required to assist the Federal government in enforcing immigration laws.
3
Conspiracy to what, exactly? Not allow California to become part of the Fourth Reich?
3
States are not but individuals are required not to facilitate a criminal activity and to report a criminal activity. Charging these legislators as accomplices for any crime committed bu an illegal would be a good first step.
And every illegal is a criminal. He has committed at least one federal crime.
And every illegal is a criminal. He has committed at least one federal crime.
3
Cal is a half trillion in debt. It is vastly over populated and a magnet for millions of people looking to get to the u.s. and bypass our obviously illegal, inhuman, anti open borders immigration laws. After all, why should we have any laws restricting the billions of people who want to come here? As they say, as California goes, so goes the nation. Or what we old timers used to think of as a sovereign nation.
41
You are apparently unaware that the top "cause" of illegal immigration is overstayed legal visas.
2
You are apparently unware that it doesn't matter from where or how someone got here. If they slip past the border by just walking past it or over stay a visa, they are still here illegally. They still need to go home. We still need to enforce our borders with fences and electronic and paper measures. That's what makes one country different than another.
9
How much does illegal immigration cost Americans?
1. There are so many undocumented workers that employers have not had to raise the wages of low-skilled or unskilled jobs to keep up with inflation. American workers have to turn to welfare to support their children. The undocumented also receive welfare for their children. If their children were born here, they get all kinds of government assistance. If they were not born here, their parents can still receive the Earned Income Tax Credit and the Child Tax Credit, both of which are paid in cash. Instead of having one American family who earns enough to support itself, with or without a small amount of government assistance, we now have 2 families on massive amounts of welfare - one legal and one illegal.
2. We do not have enough affordable housing. Illegal immigrants are renting our affordable homes, leaving many Americans out on the streets.
3. Our long-term debt keeps increasing as we pay the on-going the medical costs for illegal immigrants.
4. Our schools have to focus their resources on English language learners, many of whom come from families that speak little in any language. The children come to school with little verbal ability.
We need to encourage illegal immigrants to self-deport so we can focus our resources on helping American citizens get back on their feet.
1. There are so many undocumented workers that employers have not had to raise the wages of low-skilled or unskilled jobs to keep up with inflation. American workers have to turn to welfare to support their children. The undocumented also receive welfare for their children. If their children were born here, they get all kinds of government assistance. If they were not born here, their parents can still receive the Earned Income Tax Credit and the Child Tax Credit, both of which are paid in cash. Instead of having one American family who earns enough to support itself, with or without a small amount of government assistance, we now have 2 families on massive amounts of welfare - one legal and one illegal.
2. We do not have enough affordable housing. Illegal immigrants are renting our affordable homes, leaving many Americans out on the streets.
3. Our long-term debt keeps increasing as we pay the on-going the medical costs for illegal immigrants.
4. Our schools have to focus their resources on English language learners, many of whom come from families that speak little in any language. The children come to school with little verbal ability.
We need to encourage illegal immigrants to self-deport so we can focus our resources on helping American citizens get back on their feet.
47
Or as I put it: "Stop illegal immigration and keep our foreign aid FOREIGN".
7
You put this together very well! To my mind, the "root cause" is the American business owner (large and small) who hires an illegal over an American citizen - resulting in all the economic "spinoffs" you described so well. Nothing will change until the "boss of illegals" feels the heat legally and financially!
4
We all recognize that our current immigration system has been broken for a long time and needs to be reformed, but our representatives in Washington and the fringe voters of the left and the right don't have the wisdom and courage to do it.
In the meantime, they just just talk, talk, and talk ......
In the meantime, they just just talk, talk, and talk ......
6
The Immigration law and regulations are not broken. The United States has a very generous immigration system. Every year more than one million immigrants become Permanent Residents (Green Card Holders) via the legal route. What is missing is the political will to enforce the law and regulations on the books.
When people speak of a "broken immigration system," they generally mean that the U.S. has not accommodated the huge flow of illegal immigrants into the country. But that assumes that the U.S. is obligated to accommodate all the illegals who enter. WHY?
One of the primary attributes of national sovereignty is the determination of who may enter and who may remain. That the U.S. has been overwhelmed with illegals over the past 30 years (since the Simpson Mazzoli Act of 1986) does not mean that the "system" is broken. It simply demonstrates that insufficient resources have been allocated to enforcing the law and regulations already on the books.
When people speak of a "broken immigration system," they generally mean that the U.S. has not accommodated the huge flow of illegal immigrants into the country. But that assumes that the U.S. is obligated to accommodate all the illegals who enter. WHY?
One of the primary attributes of national sovereignty is the determination of who may enter and who may remain. That the U.S. has been overwhelmed with illegals over the past 30 years (since the Simpson Mazzoli Act of 1986) does not mean that the "system" is broken. It simply demonstrates that insufficient resources have been allocated to enforcing the law and regulations already on the books.
26
A "broken immigration system" is not about "generosity" or the numbers of who get to stay. It is about the fact that our system is such a crazy quilt of regulations and exceptions that you need to specialize in immigration law to begin to understand it. The regs can be contradictory. It takes tons of money, lawyers, and about 10 years to do it "by the book." You have to take time off work--suddenly--to show up at appointments and if you don't, you could be deported. I've known a number of people in the middle of this process (and it takes so long, that not one of them has completed it yet, in the years I have known them).
Even if you are trying to do the legal thing, it's too easy to become illegal if you fail to negotiate this incomprehensible system of rules perfectly. That's what we mean by a "broken system."
Even if you are trying to do the legal thing, it's too easy to become illegal if you fail to negotiate this incomprehensible system of rules perfectly. That's what we mean by a "broken system."
1
Good.
When the South decided to ignore Brown v Board of Education, it did so for the morally wrong reasons.
California easily can ignore Trump for all the morally right reasons.
When the South decided to ignore Brown v Board of Education, it did so for the morally wrong reasons.
California easily can ignore Trump for all the morally right reasons.
4
Since when did not following laws you don't agree with become mainstream thinking in our elected leaders? Laws are laws. Until they are changed they must be followed. Otherwise you have anarchy.
72
The federal government can use its agencies to enforce federal immigration law but it can't compel local law enforcement to act as its enforce arm. The Supreme Court has ruled attempts to do so to be unconstitutional - violations of the Tenth Amendment.
Reference: takecareblog.com/blog/embracing-federalism
Reference: takecareblog.com/blog/embracing-federalism
2
Clarification: SC rulings have been that federal attempts to compel local jurisdictions to enforce federal laws are unconstitutional. Their decisions have not been about immigration laws in particular.
1
Ever heard of civil disobedience? It has a long history in our country.
1
as the child of LEGAL immigrants, i do sympathize with people fleeing violence . BUT by avoiding the legal way to residency they just "cut in line" . One cartoon once likened it to sneaking into the movies and demanding free popcorn. We do need a system overhaul. I suggest all the worthless Americans who game the system and live off welfare and have no intention of ever working, strip them of their citizenship and deport them to Kyrgyzstan or who ever wants $50 a head and we can replace them with a hardworking immigrant.
14
Congressional apportionment should be based on the number of citizens, not population.
The same should be true for receipt of federal funds.
Folks in New York, New Jersey and Connecticut are paying for California to violate the law. We can't pick and choose which laws we want to enforce
Mexicans are coming to the US. receiving education and benefits and sending money back to Mexico. It is large part of their ecomony
The same should be true for receipt of federal funds.
Folks in New York, New Jersey and Connecticut are paying for California to violate the law. We can't pick and choose which laws we want to enforce
Mexicans are coming to the US. receiving education and benefits and sending money back to Mexico. It is large part of their ecomony
24
If the Trump Administration was serious about illegal immigration,
1. it would require all employers to use e-verify to make sure everyone of their employees was allowed to work in our country.
2. it would would stop all federal assistance to illegal immigrants that is not mandated by law. Right now, illegal immigrants can apply to the I.R.S. for Individual Taxpayer Identification Numbers with which to file federal tax forms. While virtually none of them earn enough to pay income taxes, they file forms to claim both the Earned Income Tax Credit and Child Tax Credits. The Earned Income Tax Credit is a cash subsidy for the working poor; it is the modern form of welfare.
The I.R.S. is letting illegal immigrants claim Child Tax Credits (paid in cash) for their children regardless of whether these children are citizens and regardless of whether these children are living here. The I.R.S. claims it does not have the authority to determine if the children are citizens or where they reside. One wonders how they even know if a child exists.
Most illegal immigrants would self-deport if they could not find work and receive government subsidies. We could use the aid money we typically give to their home countries to deport the rest.
1. it would require all employers to use e-verify to make sure everyone of their employees was allowed to work in our country.
2. it would would stop all federal assistance to illegal immigrants that is not mandated by law. Right now, illegal immigrants can apply to the I.R.S. for Individual Taxpayer Identification Numbers with which to file federal tax forms. While virtually none of them earn enough to pay income taxes, they file forms to claim both the Earned Income Tax Credit and Child Tax Credits. The Earned Income Tax Credit is a cash subsidy for the working poor; it is the modern form of welfare.
The I.R.S. is letting illegal immigrants claim Child Tax Credits (paid in cash) for their children regardless of whether these children are citizens and regardless of whether these children are living here. The I.R.S. claims it does not have the authority to determine if the children are citizens or where they reside. One wonders how they even know if a child exists.
Most illegal immigrants would self-deport if they could not find work and receive government subsidies. We could use the aid money we typically give to their home countries to deport the rest.
21
Exactly. Hurt the employers. If they can skirt the penalties for hiring illegals there will be no end to this.
10
For your general education on this subject:
Several municipalities in California passed ordinances requiring employers to use eVerify. When they did, the state jumped in and passed a law forbidding such ordinances. California has been on a path of actively defending illegal "immigrants" for some time (and employers in the process).
http://articles.latimes.com/2011/oct/16/local/la-me-e-verify-20111017
Several municipalities in California passed ordinances requiring employers to use eVerify. When they did, the state jumped in and passed a law forbidding such ordinances. California has been on a path of actively defending illegal "immigrants" for some time (and employers in the process).
http://articles.latimes.com/2011/oct/16/local/la-me-e-verify-20111017
16
Illegal immigrants are not eligible for the EITC.
We have educated a whole generation of illegal children who are now ready to enter the work force. We should allow these kids to use their education for the betterment of our country. There is no point in educating people and then telling them they can only work in the underground economy.
1
Only one problem. The kids of citizens who have also gotten an education here, can't get jobs. Like it or not, we have way too many people chasing too few jobs, no matter their education level. This is a recipe for low wages. Along with everify we need to end birthright citizenship as part of immigration reform. People in this country are in an economic fight for their lives.
12
Mexico and the Central American countries need to reform. We have educated many of their citizens. Now it is time them to return home and reform their countries.
Currently, American philanthropies are devoting huge amounts of money to organize illegal immigrants to make demands of our country. These philanthropies could instead use their tax-free money to help the illegal immigrants to return home and make demands for change in their own countries. Otherwise, these countries will continue their current ways and an ever-increasing number of their citizens will try to move here.
Currently, American philanthropies are devoting huge amounts of money to organize illegal immigrants to make demands of our country. These philanthropies could instead use their tax-free money to help the illegal immigrants to return home and make demands for change in their own countries. Otherwise, these countries will continue their current ways and an ever-increasing number of their citizens will try to move here.
12
"then telling them they can only work in the underground economy."
Many will. It's called drug dealing.
Seriously. Why should we reward someone who sneaked into out country and used our resources without charge and rewarding them? 2
Many will. It's called drug dealing.
Seriously. Why should we reward someone who sneaked into out country and used our resources without charge and rewarding them? 2
3
Deport people who have broken into this country or have entered legally and overstayed. The USA must enforce its borders and immigration laws while ensuring that people that follow the law are allowed to emigrate.
25
For California lawmakers, it is the clearest evidence yet of the need to strictly curb communication between local law enforcement and federal immigration officials.
Perhaps California lawmakers should try OBEYING some of the laws, as pointed out, lawmakers and others do not get to pick and choose which laws it is convenient for them to obey.
As for "immigrants" like the woman in Mendota, the article states that they have broken no laws when in fact they HAVE broken immigration laws. How can one be held as law abiding when one's very first action in coming to this country is to fail to follow the country's immigration statutes?
An analogy would to call the burglar who broke into your home an "uninvited family member" and allowing them to raid your refrigerator,shower in your bath and use your razor. Even IF they cleaned up after themselves, they still started out on an illegal act.
The woman in Mendota is, to be perfectly clear (and tossing PC obfuscation out the window) an Illegal Alien, in that she is NOT a citizen (Alien) and she is here illegally (Illegal) in having failed to follow immigration statutes, twice!
Regardless of her current actions and disposition, her early failures and continued flaunting of the law of the land should result in her immediate deportation and placing her at the back of the line to re-enter the country LEGALLY. Were there to be NO other violations aside from immigration issues then she should not be barred from re-entry in her turn.
Perhaps California lawmakers should try OBEYING some of the laws, as pointed out, lawmakers and others do not get to pick and choose which laws it is convenient for them to obey.
As for "immigrants" like the woman in Mendota, the article states that they have broken no laws when in fact they HAVE broken immigration laws. How can one be held as law abiding when one's very first action in coming to this country is to fail to follow the country's immigration statutes?
An analogy would to call the burglar who broke into your home an "uninvited family member" and allowing them to raid your refrigerator,shower in your bath and use your razor. Even IF they cleaned up after themselves, they still started out on an illegal act.
The woman in Mendota is, to be perfectly clear (and tossing PC obfuscation out the window) an Illegal Alien, in that she is NOT a citizen (Alien) and she is here illegally (Illegal) in having failed to follow immigration statutes, twice!
Regardless of her current actions and disposition, her early failures and continued flaunting of the law of the land should result in her immediate deportation and placing her at the back of the line to re-enter the country LEGALLY. Were there to be NO other violations aside from immigration issues then she should not be barred from re-entry in her turn.
24
> As for "immigrants" like the woman in Mendota, the article states that they have broken no laws when in fact they HAVE broken immigration laws.
Local law enforcement cannot be compelled to enforce federal immigration law. Attempts to compel violate the Tenth Amendment. Enforcement of federal laws is the purview of federal agencies.
Local law enforcement cannot be compelled to enforce federal immigration law. Attempts to compel violate the Tenth Amendment. Enforcement of federal laws is the purview of federal agencies.
That is all well, fine and good, so lets let the suspect in a crime who has left the immediate state and gone elsewhere just hang out where s/he is because we wouldn't want any Federal LEO to get an assist from the locals now.
SMH.
SMH.
4
If the individual didn't violate a local law then that's exactly how it's supposed to work. Local law enforcement cannot be compelled by the feds. Thank god for federalism.
In California, Sanctuary State Status doesnt hold up when recognizing the typically run-down condition of our federally funded bridges, dams, and freeways and i would urge politicians here to think long and hard before committing to something that further jeopardizes our safety and pushes the state even further into debt.
16
Saul Bellow famously said that if you tilted American on it's side "all the loose marbles would roll to California."
In light of this fiasco, he got that right.
And now you can include every illegal alien in the US.
In light of this fiasco, he got that right.
And now you can include every illegal alien in the US.
29
Anyone wishing to understand the increasing ethnic Balkanization of California politics should get familiar with all the ways the Voting Rights Act is leading to gerrymandering by ethnic group. One form is the movement from holding at large elections to voting by district, where the boundaries are drawn to guarantee that members of a particular race/ethnicity are always elected.
And never forget that all election districts are carved up on the basis of population, raw numbers. Legally here, illegally here, citizen and non citizen alike. So, it's possible, in fact it's happening, that in California, districts are formed that contain so many illegal "immigrants" who can't vote that voter turnout is very low and elections can be commandeered with a very small number of votes.
http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-pol-ca-voting-rights-minorities-calif...
And never forget that all election districts are carved up on the basis of population, raw numbers. Legally here, illegally here, citizen and non citizen alike. So, it's possible, in fact it's happening, that in California, districts are formed that contain so many illegal "immigrants" who can't vote that voter turnout is very low and elections can be commandeered with a very small number of votes.
http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-pol-ca-voting-rights-minorities-calif...
17
Kamala Devi Harris was elected statewide. Both her parents were immigrants.
The wierd thing is, I lived in CA for some years and never saw the things people claim went on, are going on, etc in terms of supposed noncitizens voting and so on. What I HAVE seen, is the concerted Jim Crow tactics of the Republicans on teh Supreme Court (the VRA gutting in 2013) and in Congress and in the states (2013 - 2016 and continuing now) to suppress any and all population groups likely to vote for a nonRepublican candidate.
We certainly need to remedy our immigration problem, but deporting people, and using resources to do so, who have committed minor or no serious crime does not make sense. Trump has said that if a state does not comply with federal laws, he would limit tax revenue returns to that state or city. Here is my answer to states that are considering not to comply with extreme federal measures: for all state employees, all federal taxes should be held in escrow and not turned over to the federal government until they give all states their fair share of federal support.
5
The woman at the beginning of the story was pulled over because the tint on her car windows was too dark. In CA, any window tint is illegal, and car owners sign a waiver stating that they are aware of this law when they opt to have their windows tinted. The law's purpose is to enable law enforcement to see inside cars. I'm not defending the law, or the officer's actions, just informing the one or two NYT readers who don't live in CA that it was a legal stop.
41
Not so. Window tinting is allowed. See the following link. Since the degree of allowed tinting is difficult to discern, there is a judgment call involved. My son has been pulled over and I know many people with much more heavily tinted windows than his.
http://www.tintcenter.com/laws/CA/
http://www.tintcenter.com/laws/CA/
3
Your link is to a business that tints windows. What do you think they'll say? I had my windows lightly tinted last month because I take a medication that increases sun cancer risk. It's still illegal. I had to sign paperwork indicating that I understood that. My daughter has been pulled over multiple times for tinted windows.
7
Google it for yourself. You won't find a link to anything saying it is illegal. If you had to sign something, it must have been because you got them tinted more than the allowable amount, not that you got them tinted.
1
California pretends to value diversity, but illegal immigration is making the state less diverse every day. About 85 percent of unauthorized immigrants are Hispanics, and Hispanics are already California largest demographic group. Legal immigration produces a highly diverse stream of immigrants who come speaking a multitude of languages from a multitude of countries and cultures. Their tremendous diversity encourages them to assimilate and acculturate into American society rather than coalescing in racial and ethnic enclaves. They also tend to possess the skills and education required to flourish in U.S. society. Illegal immigration produces a non-diverse, low-skilled and poorly educated stream of migrants who lack the skills and education required to assimilate, acculturate and flourish in U.S. society.
78
And illegal "immigration" that is largely Hispanic is how California has ended up with Hispanic folks being 58% of the non elderly on Medicaid. The figure is 57% for Texas, by the way.
http://kff.org/medicaid/state-indicator/distribution-by-raceethnicity-4/...
http://kff.org/medicaid/state-indicator/distribution-by-raceethnicity-4/...
12
Clearly, you've never driven through the Central Valley of California. Who do you think picks the hundreds of thousands of acres of crops, vegetables, fruits and nuts that feed the rest of the U.S.? It's not the highly educated legal immigrants working in Silicon Valley, that's for sure. Until you actually know something about the state of CA, keep your outdated Texas opinions on immigration to yourself.
4
WC: "They [legal immigrants] also tend to possess the skills and education required to flourish in U.S. society."
How many are willing to work in agriculture or lawn maintenance?
How many are willing to work in agriculture or lawn maintenance?
1
Just as unauthorized crossing of the border is only a civil offense, let's make not showing our tax records a civil offense. Further, let's provide ID cards for those who do file tax returns and are willing to make their tax records public. Then we should include federal IRS records/officials along with federal ICE records/officials to be checked and notified by police with each traffic stop. If a driver and all occupants of the car do not carry the IRS cards, the police officer should report all of them to the IRS immediately. IRS officers should be expected to appear and take the offenders into custody. Hmmm...aren't the windows on the presidential fleet of cars tinted?
5
The difference between a civil offense and a criminal offense is defined by the nature of the offense and the punishment assessed. Any offense that can be punished by jail time is a criminal offense. Entering the country illegally is a criminal offense because first-time offenders can be can be fined (as a criminal penalty), or imprisoned for up to six months, or both. For a second offenses, illegal border crossers can be fined or imprisoned for up to two years, or both. (8 U.S.C. Section 1325, I.N.A. Section 275). Offenders normally avoid fines and jail time by accepting deportation.
14
I'm sorry--but you are wrong about first time offenders! There is no fine or jail time in our penal code for first time crossing. Check again.
Here is noted the section of the law you mention: NOTE that this is a CIVIL offense and punishment! It is NOT a CRIMINAL offense, as so many of us are stating.
(b) Improper time or place; civil penalties. Any alien who is apprehended while entering (or attempting to enter) the United States at a time or place other than as designated by immigration officers shall be subject to a civil penalty of—
(1) at least $50 and not more than $250 for each such entry (or attempted entry); or
(2) twice the amount specified in paragraph (1) in the case of an alien who has been previously subject to a civil penalty under this subsection.
Civil penalties under this subsection are in addition to, and not in lieu of, any criminal or other civil penalties that may be imposed.
(b) Improper time or place; civil penalties. Any alien who is apprehended while entering (or attempting to enter) the United States at a time or place other than as designated by immigration officers shall be subject to a civil penalty of—
(1) at least $50 and not more than $250 for each such entry (or attempted entry); or
(2) twice the amount specified in paragraph (1) in the case of an alien who has been previously subject to a civil penalty under this subsection.
Civil penalties under this subsection are in addition to, and not in lieu of, any criminal or other civil penalties that may be imposed.
The term "Sanctuary State" is being used very loosely. These laws are simply exercising the state prerogative not to assist the federal government in its enforcement activities, a prerogative that has been recognized for more than 150 years by the United States Supreme Court (think the Fugitive Slave Acts). The use of the "Sanctuary" moniker is confusing the debate and causing many to hyperventilate about withholding Federal funds and such. When a law permits undocumented immigrants to take shelter in the State Capitol and the state police stand in front and dare ICE to enter, we'll have a sanctuary state. Until then, we'll have 'uncooperative' states.
13
Not so. California and many of its jurisdictions are vowing not to cooperate in any way. This isn't about a state's right to refuse to provide uncompensated activity for the Feds. This is about actively thwarting the Federal government as it goes about its clear responsibility for all matters related to immigration.
8
G. James. Connecticut is a sanctuary state thanks to its incompetent governor. Look what is happening. The state is getting poorer. It's loosing jobs, with taxes increasing. A large part of the net loss of people in the state is due to the above mentioned reasons, and the protection of many illegals who congregate in poor cities, such as Hartford and Bridgeport. The consequences are many. Crime on the rise, increase in property taxes, to finance public services such as schools. To compound the problem, there is always talk of ordering richer towns to bear the burden of costs in terms of schools. Then have property taxes raised to subsidize teachers pensions that the state didn't have the courage to regulate. And I did not even mention Courts decisions to impose affordable housing (for many illegals) in well off enclaves.
So the order of the day is to dumb down, tax more and protect people who don't even respect the law. Great!
So the order of the day is to dumb down, tax more and protect people who don't even respect the law. Great!
13
And 37% of Connecticut's non elderly Medicaid enrollees are Hispanic.
6
Keep it up, California, and we'll run that big, beautiful wall along our southern border up the full length of your eastern border
21
Good. Then you won't get any more of our federal tax dollars either. CA has the fifth largest economy in the world and gives a much higher percentage of tax dollars to the U.S. Than most other states. So sick of my tax dollars going to red states who have low rates of education and employment, vote for Republican candidates against their best interests, but then still take the majority of money for federal services in their states. Time for these folks to contribute!
4
Your calculations don't include defense contractors and military bases
2
There is an active proposal that California should be returned to Mexico as it was illegally taken from Mexico during the Mexican American war. Part of that move of course would be the movement of all military bases and defense contractors out of CA. All other Federal facilities would also be closed and moved to other States. This will require a vote of course of all Americans and the polls show surprisingly a large majority of Americans willing to see CA go back to Mexico. Apparently, the sanctuary city issue is the big item that has most Americans upset.
6
The "civil" not "criminal" argument invites criminalizing illegal immigration, and bringing an unaccompanied illegal minor across an international border.
Is anyone going to step down from their soapbox and discuss possible solutions to illegal immigration?
Is anyone going to step down from their soapbox and discuss possible solutions to illegal immigration?
5
I, for one, would welcome strict penalties for companies that hire undocumented workers. When the jobs dry up, so will the illegal crossings. Many might end up going back home as well....all without much direct intervention by the federal government.
In the meantime, supporting undocumented workers 'rights' only serves to fatten entire industries that grow rich on the backs of workers paid meager wages, with no benefits and virtually no rights.
For the life of me, I can't figure out why progressives support this dynamic when the result is a sub-human designation for an entire population.
In the meantime, supporting undocumented workers 'rights' only serves to fatten entire industries that grow rich on the backs of workers paid meager wages, with no benefits and virtually no rights.
For the life of me, I can't figure out why progressives support this dynamic when the result is a sub-human designation for an entire population.
15
Steve, thank you. I agree with you.
1
Now that we dont have to obey Federal law in CA I suppose that means that all of the national forests and monuments in CA will be fully used by the undocumented pharmaceutical workers, and that their poisons, man-traps and machine guns can be employed at will. Hikers and bikers can always go to OR or NV for a bit of non-lethal exercise.
16
Sorry, Texas challenging the Obama rules on stays is not the same as California seeking to just ignore federal immigration law. With the Obama situation he chose to ignore the statutes on the books and expected the states to follow suit, something they had no obligation to do. In the California case, by contrast, they are seeking to actively ignore or thwart an actual law, not some administrative fiat of the administration.
18
Why is this form of nullification more "noble" than Georg Wallace's attempt to nullify Federal Law establishing civil rights?
Would Alabama becoming a "segregation state" have been supported by the same people who in this case, believe nullification of Federal Law is acceptable?
Doesn't obstruction of justice, aiding and abetting apply just as it did when Alabama attempted nullification?
The hypocrisy shown by the left is alarming.
Would Alabama becoming a "segregation state" have been supported by the same people who in this case, believe nullification of Federal Law is acceptable?
Doesn't obstruction of justice, aiding and abetting apply just as it did when Alabama attempted nullification?
The hypocrisy shown by the left is alarming.
44
We have an ocean of good and decent people here in California, some with proper papers, some not, who, like our forebears, came to our country seeking a better life, and are willing to work --and work hard--for it.
Good that these good people need not cower in the shadows. We can deal with bad hombres without throwing the baby out with the bathwater, without killing the American Dream.
Good that these good people need not cower in the shadows. We can deal with bad hombres without throwing the baby out with the bathwater, without killing the American Dream.
21
The "American Dream" has to include following and enforcing the laws of the nation.
9
Congress needs to enact an immigration law, update immigration quotas from countries and deal with the 11 million or so of illegal immigrants in the country. We cannot take in everyone, this is impossible. Deporting them is not an option, cost too much and they already are in communities that they support with taxes and with their children's future taxes. CA is trying to prevent friction between local Police and their communities. If CA loses, the loss will be felt in every community in the nation. We cannot have shadow people living among us, they are second class citizens without any rights other than human rights which ICE, Congress and King Trump cares very little about. This continued pressure of constant fear will bring this situation to a boil. CA is right to defend itself from inept and corrupt officials in Congress unwilling to pass immigration legislation. The bottom line is the cost of building a border wall, ICE deportations and human right violations will peck at the very values we hold dear. We must accept one fact, we have illegal immigrants. We need to abolish their second class citizen status and get these people to become functional citizens in our society.
6
Why can't we take in everyone? It's a huge country, and there's plenty of room.
Mike: "Why can't we take in everyone? It's a huge country, and there's plenty of room."
Not where there is a shortage of jobs, housing, or classrooms.
Not where there is a shortage of jobs, housing, or classrooms.
7
"We cannot take in everyone" - the entire human population of the planet could fit within the borders of Rhode Island.
2
The Bay Area long ago seceded from the Union. Morally, politically, conceptually they inhabit another time zone, another universe in the multiverse that comprises CA. It's like living in an inside out black hole which in its dense conformity repels everything from the outside while emitting a continuous wave of compliant moonbeams.
18
I think you say this with contempt. Apologies if I misinterpreted the sentiment.
But here in CA, we are vibrant, disagree on many things, but generally move in a positive direction socially and in the govt. Economically- the innovation, dynamism and progress here is the envy of the entire world.
I wish the 'black hole' had more influence on its neighbor - the white hole.
But here in CA, we are vibrant, disagree on many things, but generally move in a positive direction socially and in the govt. Economically- the innovation, dynamism and progress here is the envy of the entire world.
I wish the 'black hole' had more influence on its neighbor - the white hole.
9
Apology accepted. It's really an inverse black hole. The white hole ploy is a good example of deeply embedded CA conformity. Your warm espousal of all things CA is telling. Meanwhile, the Bay area has the most extreme ratio of economic disparity in the nation with an accompanying superbloom of homelessness of astounding dimension.
6
Seems like this article has struck a nerve with some who wish to deport all the illegal immigrants. Have these individuals ever taken notice that without the vast majority of these 11 million illegals our economy would come to a screeching halt. It isn’t necessary to list all the low wage jobs they perform from picking fruits and vegetables, grooming our yards, working in our meat and poultry factories, etc. But if that all stopped, then what?
I applaud California, Vermont, and other states for what they’re trying to do. 11 million immigrants are not going away, period. What needs to be done is for our Congress to take up comprehensive immigration reform. But that won’t happen anytime soon. So Attorney General Sessions and company will fight a losing battle with the more progressive and compassionate states like California and Vermont. And get nowhere except tied up in the federal courts for years with no results.
I applaud California, Vermont, and other states for what they’re trying to do. 11 million immigrants are not going away, period. What needs to be done is for our Congress to take up comprehensive immigration reform. But that won’t happen anytime soon. So Attorney General Sessions and company will fight a losing battle with the more progressive and compassionate states like California and Vermont. And get nowhere except tied up in the federal courts for years with no results.
9
The point I was trying to make is how ridiculous it is to think we can send back 11 million illegals. I'm an old man and low paid immigrants has been a way of life for generations. As they assimilated the next generation did better and so forth.
The woman in this story didn't go home. I wonder how many people she told about this story. I wonder how many people south of the border heard about this story. This is why attempted border crossings are so dramatically down!
Finally, FINALLY, we are changing the messaging, from "get in and you can stay" to "don't pay a coyote and enter because you may not be able to work and might get deported".
Fear is what makes laws work. Fear of getting caught, fear of consequences. The fact that there is now fear in the illegal "immigrant" community is the first step toward restoring a functioning immigration system.
Finally, FINALLY, we are changing the messaging, from "get in and you can stay" to "don't pay a coyote and enter because you may not be able to work and might get deported".
Fear is what makes laws work. Fear of getting caught, fear of consequences. The fact that there is now fear in the illegal "immigrant" community is the first step toward restoring a functioning immigration system.
33
It's already being reported that illegal crossings into the US have markedly decreased for the very reasons you quote, which I applaud.
Canada, who proudly stated that their borders are open to everyone, have seen an increase in illegal immigrants, and are now trying to stop the influx that are arriving at their borders since President Trump put his immigration policy in place.
I guess no one told the illegals that Canada was just joking!
Canada, who proudly stated that their borders are open to everyone, have seen an increase in illegal immigrants, and are now trying to stop the influx that are arriving at their borders since President Trump put his immigration policy in place.
I guess no one told the illegals that Canada was just joking!
1
Looks like the Californian government cares more about illegal aliens and foreigners than their own tax paying citizens. Sad.
62
I live in Seattle and our mayor, city council, and Governor also cares more about illegal immigrants than our own citizens.
4
Laws? We don't need no stinkin' laws. Good luck California. Or shall I say buenos suerte instead?
23
The California Voting Rights Act is leading to a Balkanization of the state into ethnic group politics. As a result, we now have legislators representing districts with large numbers of illegal "immigrants" whose views and objectives they push. These legislators should be made to file as lobbyists for foreign countries because that is most certainly their role.
And it's time for the Federal government to bring some felony charges for "Harboring", "Inducing illegal residency" and "Conspiracy/Aiding or Abetting".
https://www.justice.gov/usam/criminal-resource-manual-1907-title-8-usc-1...
California should be slapped back -- hard and quickly.
And it's time for the Federal government to bring some felony charges for "Harboring", "Inducing illegal residency" and "Conspiracy/Aiding or Abetting".
https://www.justice.gov/usam/criminal-resource-manual-1907-title-8-usc-1...
California should be slapped back -- hard and quickly.
26
One the [few] great things about the election of Donald Trump, it granted permission for all storm troopers to come out of the woodwork, illustrated by a few of the comments below. Californians are acting on their collective conscience and should be congratulated, whether one agrees or not.
9
Montreal Moe and David Keys are living in a fantasy world.
There are no storm troopers.
It has nothing to do with Jews. (Actually this one made me laugh)
It has to do with Mexicans coming to the US illegally. Period.
All we ask is that our laws be enforced, our services not stolen, and our jobs protected. Simple, fair and reasonable.
Never again
There are no storm troopers.
It has nothing to do with Jews. (Actually this one made me laugh)
It has to do with Mexicans coming to the US illegally. Period.
All we ask is that our laws be enforced, our services not stolen, and our jobs protected. Simple, fair and reasonable.
Never again
11
No way. Never. Nada. If this bill goes through, California should lose every penny of federal funding. The infrastructure, congestion, and homelessness of L.A. alone is already such a joke. There is nothing to brag about here, so spare me the self-righteous posturing.
Seems like people want to have it both ways. When Arizona passed its own law to combat illegal immigration, the courts struck it down, declaring that immigration is the exclusive jurisdiction of the federal government. Now a state wants pass its own law to obstruct the federal exercise of that power.
The court verdict should apply to both parties, or this becomes untenable.
Recently I had to pay a forgotten 20-year old parking ticket for $30 from New Jersey before I could renew my license in a different state. I've never been charged with a crime, but I still had to pay it. So forgive me if I think we have shown this church lady more lenience than she deserved in delaying her deportation by 15 years because she "had no way of getting there," despite the fact that she had the means to move from Texas to California.
I'm sorry that California hates the president. But as long as they remain one of the 50 states, they play by the rules. This is the system they signed up for.
Now some want to secede. See how long the CA economy lasts when they do without federal help in fighting Chinese movie piracy and chronic drought conditions, and when Silicon Valley has to pay tariffs to sell their gadgets.
Seems like people want to have it both ways. When Arizona passed its own law to combat illegal immigration, the courts struck it down, declaring that immigration is the exclusive jurisdiction of the federal government. Now a state wants pass its own law to obstruct the federal exercise of that power.
The court verdict should apply to both parties, or this becomes untenable.
Recently I had to pay a forgotten 20-year old parking ticket for $30 from New Jersey before I could renew my license in a different state. I've never been charged with a crime, but I still had to pay it. So forgive me if I think we have shown this church lady more lenience than she deserved in delaying her deportation by 15 years because she "had no way of getting there," despite the fact that she had the means to move from Texas to California.
I'm sorry that California hates the president. But as long as they remain one of the 50 states, they play by the rules. This is the system they signed up for.
Now some want to secede. See how long the CA economy lasts when they do without federal help in fighting Chinese movie piracy and chronic drought conditions, and when Silicon Valley has to pay tariffs to sell their gadgets.
78
California PAYS the Federal government more than it gets back. It would be a win for them.
DZ: "Now a state wants pass its own law to obstruct the federal exercise of that power. "
The article never uses the word "obstruct", so your reasoning is fallacious.
DZ: "... but I still had to pay it [a ticket]."
That's because you were caught evading it.
The article never uses the word "obstruct", so your reasoning is fallacious.
DZ: "... but I still had to pay it [a ticket]."
That's because you were caught evading it.
I'm not sure a system where the russian dictator decides an election is a system anybody here signed up for . . . although it would seem the republicans are momentarily happy with it. We'll see how it works for the other team.
1
California is leading the way on this one, and I'm glad. CA has a history of messing up important policy initiatives (equal marriage and marijuana, for example) that other states have had to clean up. But this issue belongs to CA more than any other state in the union, and they are stepping up.
I hope Charlie Baker, Governor of Massachusetts, is taking notes. He has been a political coward on immigration and refugee policy (refusing Syrians last year), but he is facing reelection.
I hope Charlie Baker, Governor of Massachusetts, is taking notes. He has been a political coward on immigration and refugee policy (refusing Syrians last year), but he is facing reelection.
7
move to chelsea or lawrence, both sanctuary cities here in mass....or do you only advocate for allowing sanctuary to a population you know can't afford to move into your city and consume it's financial resources
3
Ah yes. Just looked at Lawrence. School system was placed in receivership in 2011. Here are the district demographics:
http://www.lawrence.k12.ma.us/about-lps/key-facts
http://www.lawrence.k12.ma.us/about-lps/key-facts
2
Sounds like the federal government wants to pick and choose which areas are states' rights and which rights fall to federal oversight - politically motivated all the way.
6
It's always been that way. Federal laws have been the "supreme law of the land" since 1789. Call it politically motivated if you want - that's the way our country works.
11
California receives about $67 billion each year in federal grants. Until the state rescinds its sanctuary policy, this money should be diverted to enforcing the nation's immigration laws. Part of it could be used to crack down on California employers who hire unauthorized immigrants. Some of it could be used to hire more ICE agents and immigration judges. The same should apply to other sanctuary states and cities.
105
William -
Talk (quietly) to your local police about the ICE detainer issue and you'll likley hear very clear opposition.
The overwhelming majority of police chiefs consider this to be an unfunded mandate and a usurpation of local authority - they want their cops to be on the beat rather than doing the Feds bidding. And local police know full well that everyone is less safe when immigrants avoid reporting crime or participating in investigations out of fear that they will be deported.
Talk (quietly) to your local police about the ICE detainer issue and you'll likley hear very clear opposition.
The overwhelming majority of police chiefs consider this to be an unfunded mandate and a usurpation of local authority - they want their cops to be on the beat rather than doing the Feds bidding. And local police know full well that everyone is less safe when immigrants avoid reporting crime or participating in investigations out of fear that they will be deported.
12
Cousy - the cops are not out rounding up illegals thus there is no impact "on the beat". The main issue is when they do come into contact with an illegal alien or one is incarcerated then there is a federal law - which California cannot override despite whatever state law they pass - requiring that ICE be notified. That's really all the cops have to do.
8
California contributes $405 billion to the federal tax base, over 16% of total revenue.
If you'd like, California could decriminalize non-payment of federal income tax, and you folks can go it alone. Without California tech, defense, entertainment, and agriculture, it's unlikely any Mexicans or Syrians would want to immigrate to your new "sanctuary country".
Best of luck.
incaliforniawetrust.org
If you'd like, California could decriminalize non-payment of federal income tax, and you folks can go it alone. Without California tech, defense, entertainment, and agriculture, it's unlikely any Mexicans or Syrians would want to immigrate to your new "sanctuary country".
Best of luck.
incaliforniawetrust.org
6
The proponents of sanctuary cities want local law enforcement agencies to selectively some laws but not others. This is a recipe for disaster. A primary reason we have over 12mn illegal immigrants is precisely because law enforcement decided not prosecute immigration laws. The law is the law and it needs to enforced equally for everybody.
75
What most of you are continuing to misunderstand is that immigration law is not criminal penal code. Thus police officers do not have jurisdiction in this field. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) officers do. Police officers are not trained in immigration law. We don't want ICE officers taking us into custody because they think we may have committed a crime. And we certainly don't want to be held in jail (with NO charges filled) until a particular police officer comes to take us-- with the usual length of time it takes being over 48 hours!
Yet this is what is done when police officers try to "help" ICE. ICE needs no help. Let's let police officers concentrate on what they do well: stopping crime and identifying actual criminals rather than those who may or may not have a civil violation.
Yet this is what is done when police officers try to "help" ICE. ICE needs no help. Let's let police officers concentrate on what they do well: stopping crime and identifying actual criminals rather than those who may or may not have a civil violation.
I doubt the rich enclave of Newport Beach is overrun with illegal immigrants. However, there might be a few nannies who would qualify as illegal unless the rich homeowner has sponsored the nanny.
Nope. The primary problem is priority. The Obama administration had it right. Stop it at the border, deport criminals -that is REAL CRIMINALS, not "everyone who is undocumented for one pretext or the other pretending all of them are serious hardened evil bad hombre criminals"- and do it without separating families or creating fear or enabling either insane violence or "judge/jury/executioner" powers in law enforcement. ICE has no business whatsoever deporting people, that is up to judges to decide...and that is an exponentially more serious situation as it is the supposed POTUS ignoring rule of law. You understand that it is utterly foolish to expect anyone else to adhere to strict rules of law when Trump tramples all over the law to do whatever the heck he wants?
1
This story is incorrect. Oregon has a sanctuary law and an executive ordering strengthening the law. The authors need to revise the story. See this link as a source: http://www.oregonlive.com/politics/index.ssf/2017/02/kate_brown_executiv...
7
I had the same thought. My understanding is that Oregon has been a "sanctuary state" for 30 years. Here is another source:
http://katu.com/news/local/a-new-division-an-old-law-oregon-pioneered-st...
http://katu.com/news/local/a-new-division-an-old-law-oregon-pioneered-st...
4
MS: "Oregon has a sanctuary law ..."
The current version of the article doesn't mention Oregon. In the future, please post an exact quote from the article, so readers know what you are talking about.
The current version of the article doesn't mention Oregon. In the future, please post an exact quote from the article, so readers know what you are talking about.
1
The Hispanic lobby now runs California. If you're a pol, you'd have a tough time getting elected if this lobby opposed you. So, you do what they want - which is generally in the best interests of the illegal immigrant population, if nobody else.
Laws? Who cares about laws; they don't get you elected.
Laws? Who cares about laws; they don't get you elected.
60
My thoughts exactly. This guy is 2nd generation immigrant. Born here, father wasnt. Amazing how people so blantantly look out for own kind and ignore laws and force this down our throats. I want immigration laws enforced and illegal aliens treated like criminals they are and deported. They game system...get caught? Too bad. People need to come here on lawful path. Period.
18
Mr Moderate,
On the eve of the Passover you bring to mind our story of the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. It was the wise men of Sodom that defended their cities with the very same words.
On the eve of the Passover you bring to mind our story of the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. It was the wise men of Sodom that defended their cities with the very same words.
2
MM: "The Hispanic lobby now runs California."
Please cite a reliable source supporting that claim.
Please cite a reliable source supporting that claim.
1
Isn't being in the US without documentation a civil violation, not a criminal one. I think some clarity on this would be helpful. "Illegal Immigrants" implies criminality, I think, but they are not criminals. Language is important here.
11
And they are undocumented; conflating legal with illegal immigration is part of our problem. They are not the same thing. Yes, language is important, and it's become standard now to call undocumented workers and immigrants simply "immigrants;" thus, if a person is has a problem with illegal immigration, they're simply "anti-immigrant." Every country on earth has an immigration policy; the United States is not and should not be an exception to that.
13
No, illegal immigration is a crime, not a civil violation.
14
Yes, improper entry is a crime, see http://codes.findlaw.com/us/title-8-aliens-and-nationality/8-usc-sect-13... and should be described as such.
8
The woman in this story ignored a court order, a FELONY. How many Americans would get away with ignoring a court order?
The Obama Administration sued Arizona to prevent it from enforcing federal law, on the grounds that immigration policy is solely a FEDERAL task. It won. Well, states don't have the right to IGNORE federal law, either, or refuse to cooperate with federal authorities. Don't like it? Then expect federal funding to be withheld. The Obama Administration threatened to withhold funds from school districts that didn't comply with its advisory letter regarding transgender bathrooms, and that was a mere letter, NOT a law.
The Obama Administration sued Arizona to prevent it from enforcing federal law, on the grounds that immigration policy is solely a FEDERAL task. It won. Well, states don't have the right to IGNORE federal law, either, or refuse to cooperate with federal authorities. Don't like it? Then expect federal funding to be withheld. The Obama Administration threatened to withhold funds from school districts that didn't comply with its advisory letter regarding transgender bathrooms, and that was a mere letter, NOT a law.
101
Ali: "The woman in this story ignored a court order, a FELONY."
Please cite the relevant statute.
Please cite the relevant statute.
1
It shouldn't be a felony. Only violent crimes or hose which harm people should be felonies.
It seems that you believe that what is legal is moral and what is illegal is immoral. I encourage you to reconsider that belief.
So let me get this straight....
If I get stopped in California and after running my plate the officer finds that I have 10 unpaid parking tickets, I'll be taken in for processing.
But If I entered the country illegally, it's all good.
I don't necessarily approve of hard line tactics in these situations, but it's seemingly ridiculous double standards like this that leave people like me shaking their heads - and wondering what happened to common sense.
If I get stopped in California and after running my plate the officer finds that I have 10 unpaid parking tickets, I'll be taken in for processing.
But If I entered the country illegally, it's all good.
I don't necessarily approve of hard line tactics in these situations, but it's seemingly ridiculous double standards like this that leave people like me shaking their heads - and wondering what happened to common sense.
95
If you get caught smoking a joint in a state that does not condone it, very likely that law enforcement will not bother with you as it is a misdemeanor. Tax payer's funds during Obama's administration were going after the hard criminals (in this case the hard opiod dealers).
Same here. And, while many whites do not agree, undocumented citizens cannot receive social services, they know it, and do not even bother to attempt use of such services. Think of the millions (if not billions) of income tax refunds and social security funds that have not been claimed by these undocumented folk. Their entry into our country is a civil violation not a harden criminal violation (with intent to hurt). Save your tax funds for the harden criminals.
However, the motivation for Trump is to quietly let ICE pickup the easy numbers and paint them as hard criminals.
JOKE: My cousin, now 68 years old, in California is undocumented and doesn't even know it. She and her mom came over when she was 2 years old. Time for school in Texas, my mom told her mom to baptize her at the local Methodist spanish speaking church and bring the baptismal cert to her to register my cousin as a citizen. Later on in her teens the baptismal cert was change to a birth certificate at the courthouse. This was the way in the '50s.
THE IRONY: Her husband would divorce her if he ever found out. This fellow is your typical mean-spirited republican . . . I just leave and laugh!
Same here. And, while many whites do not agree, undocumented citizens cannot receive social services, they know it, and do not even bother to attempt use of such services. Think of the millions (if not billions) of income tax refunds and social security funds that have not been claimed by these undocumented folk. Their entry into our country is a civil violation not a harden criminal violation (with intent to hurt). Save your tax funds for the harden criminals.
However, the motivation for Trump is to quietly let ICE pickup the easy numbers and paint them as hard criminals.
JOKE: My cousin, now 68 years old, in California is undocumented and doesn't even know it. She and her mom came over when she was 2 years old. Time for school in Texas, my mom told her mom to baptize her at the local Methodist spanish speaking church and bring the baptismal cert to her to register my cousin as a citizen. Later on in her teens the baptismal cert was change to a birth certificate at the courthouse. This was the way in the '50s.
THE IRONY: Her husband would divorce her if he ever found out. This fellow is your typical mean-spirited republican . . . I just leave and laugh!
4
Illegal "immigrants" do get some social services, Medicaid, for instance, under some circumstances. And Medicaid often pays for them to have kids that are US citizens, thanks to the continuing lunacy of Birthright Citizenship. And the kids are on all manner of entitlements from birth.
And, in case you missed this story about illegal "immigrant" tax fraud:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Exptf9--5nA
And, in case you missed this story about illegal "immigrant" tax fraud:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Exptf9--5nA
21
Not true that illegal aliens cannot access taxpayer sponsored benefits. They can get welfare through anchor babies, social security fraud, emergency room treatment, etc. so that argument just doesnt fly.
16