1. Why is Israel receiving $4bn per year in US aid? Are they poor?
2. Why do we support Israel unconditionally? Is their behavior making America safer or endangering us? India's interests and values are arguably more aligned with ours than Israel's (Israel is not a secular state), yet we do not treat them the same way. Being surrounded by crazy neighbors does not automatically mean you are a good friend.
3. Is Bibi the most provocative, unhinged leader in power today? Kim Jong Un comes to mind. But Bibi actually has bite to his bark
2. Why do we support Israel unconditionally? Is their behavior making America safer or endangering us? India's interests and values are arguably more aligned with ours than Israel's (Israel is not a secular state), yet we do not treat them the same way. Being surrounded by crazy neighbors does not automatically mean you are a good friend.
3. Is Bibi the most provocative, unhinged leader in power today? Kim Jong Un comes to mind. But Bibi actually has bite to his bark
4
The USA has assisted and abetted the illegal Israeli land theft and apartheid policies and will be allowed free reign when Hillary or Donald are President.
The only progress here is that he Israeli government has gone from pretending to be interested in a two-state solution while grabbing up Palestinian land and insuring no path to separation, to proudly proclaiming the actions, policies and racism that underpins it's core beliefs.
This Jew is tired of watching my heritage being used to justify inhumane treatment of others, and tired of the US protecting Israeli human rights and war crimes.
The only progress here is that he Israeli government has gone from pretending to be interested in a two-state solution while grabbing up Palestinian land and insuring no path to separation, to proudly proclaiming the actions, policies and racism that underpins it's core beliefs.
This Jew is tired of watching my heritage being used to justify inhumane treatment of others, and tired of the US protecting Israeli human rights and war crimes.
56
If you think Netanyahu is an unappealing political leader, you have only to glance at the openly racist Liberman to find a more disgusting character than anyone we have in the US. Please understand that just because Israel holds elections that does not make it an equality-loving democracy, any more than Turkey or Lebanon are now. As for Netanyahu, as others have pointed out he is only concerned about keeping his power. When it comes to anti-Semitism, if by that you mean hatred of Semitic people, it is alive and well in Israel as well as abroad. Criticism of Israel isn't anti-Semitic, just as criticism of Putin isn't anti-Russian. The US should be critical of politicians who manipulate ethnic 'loyalties' to their own ends.
62
Just imagine if there is actually PEACE in the Middle East what is in it for ISrael- The golden spigot from the US tax payers would be cut off and they would lose $10 billion a year subsidy.
39
It is time that partisans of both sides start telling the truth. Israel can't long survive holding onto the West Bank and there will be weapons for which no amount of territory will protect Israel. The settlements have always been a phony issue, and as long as Hamas tries to murder Jews, Hamas will keep the Palestinians from their state and will probably be destroyed before Israel.
5
Isn't it time we stopped pretending that Israel is interested in peace? The only thing baffling about this is that anyone is baffled by it.
35
Why oh why is it Israels duty to appoint people approved of by Obama?
17
In the absence of any significant recent flair-ups in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, the NYT needs to dig deep to fulfill its monthly quota of anti-Israel editorials. Gasp! The Prime Minister of Israel offered the defense ministry (gasp!) to a former defense minister (gasp!) who (gasp!) doesn't very much like the Palestinians (gasp!).
I know, I know -- Netanyahu should've picked a defense minister from the 15% of Israelis who are NOT sick and tired of being blown up, stabbed, and generally reviled by the Palestinians for the past 100 years.
Oh, and by the way, that "wounded Palestinian" who was executed was wounded trying to stab Israelis (gasp!).
I know, I know -- Netanyahu should've picked a defense minister from the 15% of Israelis who are NOT sick and tired of being blown up, stabbed, and generally reviled by the Palestinians for the past 100 years.
Oh, and by the way, that "wounded Palestinian" who was executed was wounded trying to stab Israelis (gasp!).
26
Baffling?
There is nothing baffling about this move.
Yes, this is a hard-line move, but in reality it does not radically alter the picture in the Middle East, nobody there believes in the viability of a peace agreement.
Why should they?
Israeli politics is dominated by a right wing settler movement, while the Palestinian politics are dictated in the ground by whatever Hamas does.
There is no point in talking.
There is nothing baffling about this move.
Yes, this is a hard-line move, but in reality it does not radically alter the picture in the Middle East, nobody there believes in the viability of a peace agreement.
Why should they?
Israeli politics is dominated by a right wing settler movement, while the Palestinian politics are dictated in the ground by whatever Hamas does.
There is no point in talking.
9
"...the Israelis are assuring that Goliath backs David."
Whatever the merits of this comment may be, I question whether Israel really is a "David" any more. It's a well-to-do country, not some basket case that requires US aid to survive. Why neglect spending in the US to support Israel? It can afford to take care of itself. Let it.
Whatever the merits of this comment may be, I question whether Israel really is a "David" any more. It's a well-to-do country, not some basket case that requires US aid to survive. Why neglect spending in the US to support Israel? It can afford to take care of itself. Let it.
36
Lieberman is an ugly man with ugly politics. But the NYT and its sanctimonious readership seem incapable of distinguishing between "ultranationalism" (or "fascism" in the comments), and a hard-line response to incessant terrorism well within the spectrum of ordinary western liberal-democratic norms. Is it really 'ultranationalist' to support the death penalty for convicted terrorists? I'm pretty sure that has strong bipartisan support. Removing Arabic as a national language? I don't even see Democracts pushing for Spanish to be a national language, and the Spanish-speaking community is not even, of course, knifing civilians in broad daylight. Shouldn't we all want Hamas, the fascist Islamist dictators of Gaza, to be destroyed? Why, when Israel is mentioned, do the NYT Editors and their well-trained sheeplike readers suddenly become unable to perform even basic critical comparisons? Why do you start to pander to moral absolutes as though they have real valency beyond your soy-milk single-estate cappuccinos?
In case you haven't noticed, the right has been gaining strength across the West despite FAR less exposure to real daily terrorism. Why do you applaud the NYC police for shooting a knife-wielding drunk nine times in midtown Manhattan - but you don't even bother reporting the daily knives in the throats of Israelis? When you blow your dog-whistle, why does "Israel" always come out the end? Why is this your scarlet letter? When will you grow up?
In case you haven't noticed, the right has been gaining strength across the West despite FAR less exposure to real daily terrorism. Why do you applaud the NYC police for shooting a knife-wielding drunk nine times in midtown Manhattan - but you don't even bother reporting the daily knives in the throats of Israelis? When you blow your dog-whistle, why does "Israel" always come out the end? Why is this your scarlet letter? When will you grow up?
29
Regrettably, despite NYT assurance that the next president is "not likely to abandon support for a two-state solution," our next president is almost certain to do exactly that, in deeds if not in words. But that's then, and this is now. By all means, let's cancel discussions on that 10-year defense agreement in protest to this offensive appointment.
45
It seems obvious that Israel no longer needs the United States' friendship or support. That means it is time for the U.S. to cut off military aid to Israel. If they insist on being a fortress nation wishing to do anything they feel they can get away with to satisfy their right wing, they must do so alone.
If the people of Israel do not share Netanyahoo's fascist tendencies they should show him the door. Otherwise, they are on their own.
If the people of Israel do not share Netanyahoo's fascist tendencies they should show him the door. Otherwise, they are on their own.
107
Could it be that the prospect of a Hillary presidency emboldens the hardline elements in Israel? She will go along with them in a way Obama won't. She will even supply the weapons and cover. Lucky Israel.
Bernie is what we need.
Bernie is what we need.
25
Lieberman and ISIS in Middle East is a deadly combination. Add this to the next US President. Israel is already getting involved by targeting Hezbolla leaders fighting against ISIS, they do not care if the areas around them burn so long as they do well.
9
In the coming months many more Western governments are going to formally recognize the State of Palestine based on the 1967 borders. So what happens then. These governments vote to ban imports of all Israeli goods made in the West Bank. The Netanyahu-Lieberman government reacts by authorizing huge increases in settlement building. The Western governments react to that by imposing economic sanctions on the entire State of Israel. Israel reacts by .......
The downward spiral is the result of one man's actions; Benjamin Netanyahu.
The downward spiral is the result of one man's actions; Benjamin Netanyahu.
19
Lieberman and similar religious/nationalist extremists will destroy Israel without help from Hamas. Remember: the ancient Jewish state fell because of similar extremists who took on the Roman Empire. As a Jewish-Polish poet said: "Those who speak in the name of God, should show their credentials".
19
If there is another reason to not vote for Hillary this should top the list: her unwavering support of Israel no matter how abusive their behavior, her backing by A.I.P.A.C.and her disastrous decision to support the war in the Middle East all should qualify her as the last person in the world you want as commander in chief, this all but guarantees our continued involvement in funding and sending our youth to die for Netanyahu and his right wing expansionary vision for Israel. That there will never be a two state solution has been obvious since the days of President Carter when he was crushed politically for such overtures. The addition of Avigdor Lieberman to the toxic brew attempting to influence A erican foreign policy is truly frightening: for the uniformed, and that would include everyone who doesn't read the excellent Israeli daily opposition paper Harretz (there seems to be a media blackout in the U.S. of factual events in the Ukraine). Mr. Lieberman was the guy in a secret meeting with Poroschenko before his annointment as "president" after the U.S. backed coup in Ukraine allowing Kolomoisky and the other Jewish oligarchs to wrest control from the democratically elected President, this power grab understandably angering Putin. To contemplate being sucked into a war with Russia by Clinton and this crew is not beyond the realm of possibility. I suggest you read Harretz and Reuters regarding Lieberman, Poroschenko, Kolomoisky/U.S.A./Ukraine, before you cast your vote!
17
Only a fool believes that the Israeli power structure wants peace talks and a two state solution. They are happy with what they have!
21
I've been reading this this stuff, or something similar, for half a century. Why can't we understand that Israel will never reach an agreement with the Palestinians? At least not in my lifetime, perhaps not in my grandchildrens'.
Israel does not deserve our dearly earned tax dollars. Is it possible our political and elective processes will one day move us away from the huge costs we inflict upon ourselves - in funds,casualties and damaged relations - through our over involvement in foreign conflicts?
Israel does not deserve our dearly earned tax dollars. Is it possible our political and elective processes will one day move us away from the huge costs we inflict upon ourselves - in funds,casualties and damaged relations - through our over involvement in foreign conflicts?
27
During the Vietnam War Americans could refuse to participate and claimed they were "conscientious objectors" to government policy. American taxpayers should become today's conscientious objectors, by refusing to have their tax dollars used to support a fascist state committing human rights abuse and crimes against the Palestinian people..
19
Not baffling, not at all - Israel has drifted to the right, and its governing parties remind me of the extremism that came out of the Ultra-Loyalists in Northern Ireland in the early 1970s - genocidal, nakedly racist, completely unable to see its own violence as aggression, and fond of burning down the homes of the natives.
http://www.alternet.org/world/how-israel-covers-its-ugly-racial-holy-war
https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/how-israel-protects-it...
Of course the Catholic side contributed to the violence - that is beyond dispute, but the Catholic side's violence was generally a result, in the early 70s, of Loyalist mob violence and a British military that turned from a welcome peace-keeping force to an anti-Catholic occupation force.
I wish the best for the good people of Israel, but Israel's government (and no small number of Ultra Orthodox Jews and Ultra-Zionists) quite obviously, does not want peace - it wants all of Palestine.
If the left and moderates on both sides can push back and push back hard, some sort of loose 2 state confederation could become fantastically wealthy through tourist dollars and new investment.
But for now, as was the case for so long in Ulster, the reasonable middle ground, and peace, is perpetually excluded by the tacit collusion of the two extremes.
http://www.alternet.org/world/how-israel-covers-its-ugly-racial-holy-war
https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/how-israel-protects-it...
Of course the Catholic side contributed to the violence - that is beyond dispute, but the Catholic side's violence was generally a result, in the early 70s, of Loyalist mob violence and a British military that turned from a welcome peace-keeping force to an anti-Catholic occupation force.
I wish the best for the good people of Israel, but Israel's government (and no small number of Ultra Orthodox Jews and Ultra-Zionists) quite obviously, does not want peace - it wants all of Palestine.
If the left and moderates on both sides can push back and push back hard, some sort of loose 2 state confederation could become fantastically wealthy through tourist dollars and new investment.
But for now, as was the case for so long in Ulster, the reasonable middle ground, and peace, is perpetually excluded by the tacit collusion of the two extremes.
15
I have a different take on why Bibi made the Lieberman appointment. I believe it was an outright snub to Barrack Hussein Obama. As everyone knows, it is Bibi who runs Israeli Foreign Policy; who he appoints as his Foreign Minister is simply a matter of what kind of window dressing he wants to show the world at any particular time.
Come January 2017 when President Trump is inaugurated Bibi will appoint just that Foreign Minister who he feels can best work with the new President, who has already indicated that he desires to work with him.
Come January 2017 when President Trump is inaugurated Bibi will appoint just that Foreign Minister who he feels can best work with the new President, who has already indicated that he desires to work with him.
5
Benjamin Netanyahu is not an extreme right wing politician as are many European politicians currently posing a serious problem to democracy, civil and human rights and peace in that part of the world. He is actively working for peace with the Palestinians. Yet anti-semites are constantly attacking him. They need to stop.
It's way past time that we ceased aiding Israel with $3 billion a year. It's an advanced country that is more than able to pay for it's own defence - and Israel has the sort of social support policies that conservatives refuse to pay for in the US. While we're at it we should keep the money we pay to Egypt's authoritarian government. There's plenty of need right here in America.
31
Evidence of the respect Israel has for the US. None. Let's give them the 2nd nation status they deserve.
14
Why is it baffling that humans do what they think is best for them? The Obama administration is basically over for this issue so not getting along with them means almost nothing. Perhaps this is another example of how to negotiate which most progressives don't understand. A famous quote is "ask for the moon, and the stars you might get it". I bet these folks just buy a car for whatever the dealer wants to charge, I sure don't.
4
This is an "in your face".."bite the hand that feeds you" ...arrogant, but not surprising, act by Benjamin Netanyahu. There is a peaceful and fair resolution to the Israeli/Palestinian problem available with the more moderate thinkers in the government in Israel, but unfortunately the radical thugs do not play by the same rules. They cover up any unfair aggressive behavior by the old "they pushed me first" excuse....some of which we wonder "did they possibly program that incident...to, once again, appear to be the victim"? Would they sink to that ? When ethics and fair play is not an issue, anything is possible.
10
What Palestinian leader offers to recognise Israel's right to exist?
13
" Israel's right to exist?"
That one statement used over and over to justify the atrocities of the extreme radical actions of the Zionist right wing of Israeli politics against the Palestinians is becoming lame.
Posing that question toward a group who came into a territory and confiscated it for themselves...displacing others who were living there...kind of justifies the question to a degree actually. If you take something from me without my permission, does it REALLY belong to you ?????
That one statement used over and over to justify the atrocities of the extreme radical actions of the Zionist right wing of Israeli politics against the Palestinians is becoming lame.
Posing that question toward a group who came into a territory and confiscated it for themselves...displacing others who were living there...kind of justifies the question to a degree actually. If you take something from me without my permission, does it REALLY belong to you ?????
1
Netanyahu is single-handedly destroying the State of Israel. The moderate liberal Jewish community is letting it happen. Stand up against extremism now or be prepared for the consequences later.
19
The Arab leadership does not want a two-state solution based on 1967 borders. They rejected every peace agreement put to them and used every concession as a platform for attack (Gaza anyone?). They want a one-state solution with no Jews, and any other version they put forward is simply a tactic toward this greater goal. That's the cold reality that people outside the conflict don't want to admit.
Jews have a longer history on this land - and more recently they remade the empty deserts & swamps into productive land that drew nearby Arabs to leave their homelands (not "Palestine") for employment and a chance at a better life - in Israel. The whole idea of "occupation" is one made up by adversaries of the Jews who want to spread Muslim hegemony at the cost of their own people's misery.
I strongly support improving the welfare of Arab people who want peace. More needs to be done - and can be if Arab leaders will allow cooperation. However, creating another Muslim nation would hardly seem to be a solution.
Israel does so much for the welfare of Palestinian people, largely ignored or unreported, knowing it will get no credit. A strong Israel, warts and all (who's perfect?), remains the best hope not just for Jews - but for the all peoples residing in or near the state. That's why we should continue to support Israel. Lieberman may not be the gentlest hand, but his appointment may send a message to the Arab peoples that Israel will not be buckling under any time soon.
Jews have a longer history on this land - and more recently they remade the empty deserts & swamps into productive land that drew nearby Arabs to leave their homelands (not "Palestine") for employment and a chance at a better life - in Israel. The whole idea of "occupation" is one made up by adversaries of the Jews who want to spread Muslim hegemony at the cost of their own people's misery.
I strongly support improving the welfare of Arab people who want peace. More needs to be done - and can be if Arab leaders will allow cooperation. However, creating another Muslim nation would hardly seem to be a solution.
Israel does so much for the welfare of Palestinian people, largely ignored or unreported, knowing it will get no credit. A strong Israel, warts and all (who's perfect?), remains the best hope not just for Jews - but for the all peoples residing in or near the state. That's why we should continue to support Israel. Lieberman may not be the gentlest hand, but his appointment may send a message to the Arab peoples that Israel will not be buckling under any time soon.
23
The wild card here is what will President Trump do?
In mentally preparing for a Trump presidency, I've thinking that he just might be the man to deal with Israel. I know he's said that he is a firm supporter of Israel but he says a lot of things then does exactly what he wants to, even if it is the opposite of what he said.
I remember a time during Bush Jr's administration when Israeli forces pushed into Hebron in a violent sweep after a terrorist attack. This was too much even for Pres. Bush and he sent a message that this must stop immediately! Prime Minister Sharon ignored him. There were no consequences.
Let them try that with Trump.
If there is a silver lining to the electing a bully with a temper and tunnel vision, it's in situations like this.
In mentally preparing for a Trump presidency, I've thinking that he just might be the man to deal with Israel. I know he's said that he is a firm supporter of Israel but he says a lot of things then does exactly what he wants to, even if it is the opposite of what he said.
I remember a time during Bush Jr's administration when Israeli forces pushed into Hebron in a violent sweep after a terrorist attack. This was too much even for Pres. Bush and he sent a message that this must stop immediately! Prime Minister Sharon ignored him. There were no consequences.
Let them try that with Trump.
If there is a silver lining to the electing a bully with a temper and tunnel vision, it's in situations like this.
7
So US taxpayers can now see themselves as supporters of outlaws and fascists.
17
The possible appointment of this genocidal maniac shows how Israel is now a failed state. Time to cut them loose and let them face up to the responsibility for their own actions. How can we consider giving them billions when Americans are dying because we don't have health care (through our aid we pay for health care for all Israelis). The Israeli policies cost the US lives in the mideast and trillions in defense.
17
Yes it is only Arabs who speak openly about genocide.
9
Once again, we continue to dole out billions to Israel despite the fact that Netanyahu's favorite sport is thumbing his nose at our president. When will we stop opening our wallets every time Israel comes around with its hand out? If they want our dollars, they need to acquiesce to some of our wishes, which is to bring peace to the Middle East.
19
Netanyahu is no worse than Ariel Sharon, both are drenched in Palestinian blood. Netanyahu is more arrogantly in-your-face about the ethnic cleansing goals of Israel and his dismissive contempt for the U.S. president. He is emboldened by the AIPAC feed support of the U.S. Senate and Congress, which the rest of the world sees as Israel's enabler. As Shimon Peres once said, "The United States has never said no to Israel." What does this unwavering support of Israel earn the U.S? Shame and hatred of the enabler. And Hillary or Donald will make sure this continues big time.
16
The times editorial board seems to be obsessed with Prime Minister Netanyahu and likes to make gross assumptions about the Israeli government and Israel's commitment to peace. Why? It is truly baffling to this reader why the Times is so quick to condemn actions not yet taken.
14
If you had read the piece you'd know why.
9
By placing this man in this position proves beyond a doubt that Bibi has no interest in peace with the Palestinians.
15
This move by Netanyahu is just another chapter in his war criminal record of pandering to the extreme right at the expense of the Palestinians who suffer between the Israeli's who want to kill them and the Hamas who control their miserable lives.
I fear this ugly move by Netanyahu will create the scenario that the Nazis used in WWII occupied territories. If one of their soldiers were killed, 10 villagers were lined up and shot.
I fear this ugly move by Netanyahu will create the scenario that the Nazis used in WWII occupied territories. If one of their soldiers were killed, 10 villagers were lined up and shot.
12
Who should the Israeli's make peace with?
Peace in the middle east is impossible, as war/genocide rages across Syria, and Iraq. Shia/Sunni conflagration continues to spread.
Peace in the middle east is impossible, as war/genocide rages across Syria, and Iraq. Shia/Sunni conflagration continues to spread.
10
israeli politics is like Game of Thrones, BiBi is King and makes alliances to strengthen his position as King. Israelis repeatedly elect BiBi as King. There are 7 major competing parties all of whom wish to become king. The 8th is the Arab/communist party whose goal is not only to eliminate our King but to destroy our country from within.
Nomination of ministers is the prerogative of the King, much like that of POTUS . Whether AL is best suited for the job is not of great consequence as long as it strengthens our King which reflects the will of our people. The Arabs functions under two death cults, an Islamist terror group in Gaza and a dysfunctional autocracy in the West Bank educating their children to'martyrdom' and hatred seeking the murder of our citizens and the elimination of our country.
Defense of our people and destruction of our enemies wherever they are is our prime directive and something which we are capable of inflicting should the need arise regardless of who holds the ministry of defense. Until then the Arabs must accept the reality of Israel as the Jewish state and Jerusalem as our undivided capital. As longs as the Arabs issue demands and fail to accept the humiliation of their defeat there will never be peace, just a pause in their conflict.
Apparently the democratic functioning of a freely elected government is deeply disturbing to the NYT board and most of its readers.
Nomination of ministers is the prerogative of the King, much like that of POTUS . Whether AL is best suited for the job is not of great consequence as long as it strengthens our King which reflects the will of our people. The Arabs functions under two death cults, an Islamist terror group in Gaza and a dysfunctional autocracy in the West Bank educating their children to'martyrdom' and hatred seeking the murder of our citizens and the elimination of our country.
Defense of our people and destruction of our enemies wherever they are is our prime directive and something which we are capable of inflicting should the need arise regardless of who holds the ministry of defense. Until then the Arabs must accept the reality of Israel as the Jewish state and Jerusalem as our undivided capital. As longs as the Arabs issue demands and fail to accept the humiliation of their defeat there will never be peace, just a pause in their conflict.
Apparently the democratic functioning of a freely elected government is deeply disturbing to the NYT board and most of its readers.
13
Lieberman enters Netanyahu’s coalition government, Lieberman leaves Netanyahu’s coalition government, Lieberman enters Netanyahu’s coalition government: straightening out deck chairs while the Titanic goes down.
5
With whom shall Israel make peace? Hamas, which teaches it's children that jews are subhuman and drink arab blood?
Or perhaps the completely illegitimate Abbas, who is in the 12th year of a 4 year presidential term and in no way posesses the credibility with his own people necessary to make any deal stick?
It is also fairly ludicrous for the editorial board to suggest that only now is it difficult to imagine how peace talks mover forward. This has been the case since at least Bill Clinton's term, because Arabs don't want peace. They want dead Jews and the end of Israel.
Or perhaps the completely illegitimate Abbas, who is in the 12th year of a 4 year presidential term and in no way posesses the credibility with his own people necessary to make any deal stick?
It is also fairly ludicrous for the editorial board to suggest that only now is it difficult to imagine how peace talks mover forward. This has been the case since at least Bill Clinton's term, because Arabs don't want peace. They want dead Jews and the end of Israel.
21
If they wanted to make peace they could. The "nobody to make peace with" is just another in a long list of flimsy excuses.
10
Where ever there are first and second class citizens in the world there will be war. Bennie's default position is that anything that isn't Israeli is second class.
Thinking such as this in a modern world can get a lot of people killed. Then again, this is what folks like Bennie want: Dead people...
Thinking such as this in a modern world can get a lot of people killed. Then again, this is what folks like Bennie want: Dead people...
4
Lieberman is a skunk. Netanyahu is a chameleon.
On the other hand, liberals in the US and Europe will hate Israel no matter what it does to accommodate the "Palestinians."
So why not declare them to be the real occupiers of Judea and Samaria, rightly - legally and morally - part of the land of Israel and let the lefties wring their hands?
On the other hand, liberals in the US and Europe will hate Israel no matter what it does to accommodate the "Palestinians."
So why not declare them to be the real occupiers of Judea and Samaria, rightly - legally and morally - part of the land of Israel and let the lefties wring their hands?
6
I notice you put Palestinians in quotes.
You may have heard the term 'the map is not the territory' - similarly, the name of a group of people is not the same as the people themselves.
In the case of "Israel" - Jews from Europe, whose ancestors had lived in Europe for 1000 years or more, claimed, based on spurious notions of ethnicity, to have more of a "right" to live somewhere than the people who had lived there for the same time period - or longer.
Israel is hated because of what it does, and because its apologists never, ever consider that the Palestinians have a right to 'defend themselves' too.
You may have heard the term 'the map is not the territory' - similarly, the name of a group of people is not the same as the people themselves.
In the case of "Israel" - Jews from Europe, whose ancestors had lived in Europe for 1000 years or more, claimed, based on spurious notions of ethnicity, to have more of a "right" to live somewhere than the people who had lived there for the same time period - or longer.
Israel is hated because of what it does, and because its apologists never, ever consider that the Palestinians have a right to 'defend themselves' too.
12
There are many many American Jews who love Israel but are nonetheless appalled by the current right wing government and its approach to the Palestinians. This government is responsible for the resurgence of anti Semitism.
11
FYI, at least half of the Jews who emigrated to" Israel" came from Iraq, Iran, Syria, Yemen, Egypt, Libya, Turkey & Morroco where they lived for generations in Muslim societies as third rate residents. The other half were refugees from Europe, holocaust survivors denied entry into the British Mandate of Palestine. Naturally there are differences amongst these groups as befits a pluralistic society. When the Israelites were freed from Egypt, they settled in what became known as Israel where Jews have lived for thousands of years and which the UN recognized as a sovereign nation in 1948, the State of Israel.
"Palestine" on the other hand refers to an area much like Mesopotamia, or the Levant or the Mid-East as the area the Arabs call" Palestine" was never a soveerign nation state, just occupied territory by Jordan, Britain or the Ottomans under whom they served as indentured servants or serfs to the Caliph.
Israel is hated by haters of Israel and loved by lovers of Israel.
"Palestine" on the other hand refers to an area much like Mesopotamia, or the Levant or the Mid-East as the area the Arabs call" Palestine" was never a soveerign nation state, just occupied territory by Jordan, Britain or the Ottomans under whom they served as indentured servants or serfs to the Caliph.
Israel is hated by haters of Israel and loved by lovers of Israel.
5
Another chicken hawk, ashamed of never serving in uniform, looking to compensate by directing those that do.
Well, the Cheney Presidency went well....
Well, the Cheney Presidency went well....
7
I don't remember the NY TImes running editorials against the regime in Iran that seeks to kill 8 million Jews.I don't remember seeing the NY Times editorial condemning the Palestinians. I don't remember seeing the NY TImes editorial condeming the cabinet appointments in Turkey.
While Israel gets US aid in return for intelligence and billions of dollars of technology, it is obnoxious for The NY TImes or the US to dictate who Israel can or cannot have in its cabinet.
Of course, I expect nothing less from a newspaper that in 1896 ran an editorial against allowing Eastern European Jews in America because they were "uneducatable" and which ran an editorial in 1947 opposing a Jewish State.
While Israel gets US aid in return for intelligence and billions of dollars of technology, it is obnoxious for The NY TImes or the US to dictate who Israel can or cannot have in its cabinet.
Of course, I expect nothing less from a newspaper that in 1896 ran an editorial against allowing Eastern European Jews in America because they were "uneducatable" and which ran an editorial in 1947 opposing a Jewish State.
17
they don't seek to kill 8 million jews. While a couple officials may have said something outrageous, the same has been said by Israeli politicians.
But your notion that the times is anti-Israel is absolutely bonkers, to think so you must be absolutely blind to any and all legitimate criticism of the state of Israel. My goodness, it's only biased against "Israel" if you conflate Israel with the racist xenophobia of Likud.
But your notion that the times is anti-Israel is absolutely bonkers, to think so you must be absolutely blind to any and all legitimate criticism of the state of Israel. My goodness, it's only biased against "Israel" if you conflate Israel with the racist xenophobia of Likud.
9
Not baffling at all. Bibi's a right wing politician. The U.S. should decline to negotiate a defense or arms treaty with Israel until it has a government truly willing to seek peace with the Palestinians. Netanyahu can't be trusted.
13
Lieberman is to the "right" of any "far right" politician in Europe.
And if Hillary Clinton is elected, perhaps even more than Trump {hence some of the criticism he gets from neocons like Bill "Israel First" Kristol} we can expect that nothing Israel does to its Palestinian helots will warrant more than perhaps a mild, equivocating word about "peace."
Likud doesn't want peace.
Hillary's neocon advisors don't want peace:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-05-22/dreadful-kagan-clan-hillarys-wa...
And who suffers? Little kids on both sides of the imaginary lines adults draw.
What good is religion, if they can not stop the violence in the "Holy Land?"
And if Hillary Clinton is elected, perhaps even more than Trump {hence some of the criticism he gets from neocons like Bill "Israel First" Kristol} we can expect that nothing Israel does to its Palestinian helots will warrant more than perhaps a mild, equivocating word about "peace."
Likud doesn't want peace.
Hillary's neocon advisors don't want peace:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-05-22/dreadful-kagan-clan-hillarys-wa...
And who suffers? Little kids on both sides of the imaginary lines adults draw.
What good is religion, if they can not stop the violence in the "Holy Land?"
11
What fantasyland is the NYT editorial board living in? In gaza and the west bank, they glorify killers of people traveling on buses and praying in synagogues and celebrate them as holy martyrs. They have established a day of mourning to commemorate the founding of the state of Israel. It doesn't matter who is running Israel. It could be SpongeBob and Patrick; there is nothing happening in terms of any "peace process."
The entire history of the "peace process" can be summarized as Israel making offers to which the other side responds with terror and violence.
The entire history of the "peace process" can be summarized as Israel making offers to which the other side responds with terror and violence.
13
I have to acknowledge that I'd probably do the same things if I were Netanyahu. Why not? The US supports him no matter what.
Ironically, while several commenters compare Netanyahu to Trump, I suspect he wants Hillary to win. If she's ever expressed any resistance to Israeli demands, it's slipping my mind. Maybe Trump would cave in too -- who knows? But Hillary almost certainly would.
Ironically, while several commenters compare Netanyahu to Trump, I suspect he wants Hillary to win. If she's ever expressed any resistance to Israeli demands, it's slipping my mind. Maybe Trump would cave in too -- who knows? But Hillary almost certainly would.
5
What Palestinian leaders are prepared to recognize Israel as a nation? (Would appreciate that this printed as a question not typically raised.)
12
Media 2
The Palestinians have, several times, formally recognized the State of Israel. When the unity government was formed and recognized by many Western governments, including the US, it adopted these earlier recognition statements.
The entire Arab League, including the Palestinians, proposed full recognition of the State of Israel and the normalization of relations.
Israel refuses to recognize the State of Palestine.
The Palestinians have, several times, formally recognized the State of Israel. When the unity government was formed and recognized by many Western governments, including the US, it adopted these earlier recognition statements.
The entire Arab League, including the Palestinians, proposed full recognition of the State of Israel and the normalization of relations.
Israel refuses to recognize the State of Palestine.
12
The internal war between the Israel defense forces and Bibi Netanyahu is reaching its boiling point, after Bibi's appointment of Lieberman to the office of Defense Minster.
Lieberman was a nightclub bouncer with ties to the Russian mafia in his native country and never served in the IDF, contrary to all former defense ministers and other high ranking ministers.
The Deputy of the IDF, Golan, has even compared the actions of Netanyahu and Lieberman defending the soldier who executed a wounded Palestinian and their policies in general resembling the one of Europe in the 1930s.
The outgoing defense minister, Ya'alon of the Likud party was most certainly no dove. Yet he declared when he left the Knesset the last time after resigning his seat in protest, that he would not stand for the arch-right extremism of his party's leader anymore.
Bibi has finally gone over the top by battling the most revered entity of his country, the IDF, and even the center right press in Israel is up in arms about his country destroying policies, policies only enacted by him to stay in power of the an extremely shake government coalition.
The leaders of Israel's internal security force, Shin Bet, are also in uproar over his decisions.
All polls already show that Israelis prefer Ya'alon over Lieberman by 51% over 27%. As a Jewish American I can only hope that Israelis will finally decide to send Bibi into retirement.
Lieberman was a nightclub bouncer with ties to the Russian mafia in his native country and never served in the IDF, contrary to all former defense ministers and other high ranking ministers.
The Deputy of the IDF, Golan, has even compared the actions of Netanyahu and Lieberman defending the soldier who executed a wounded Palestinian and their policies in general resembling the one of Europe in the 1930s.
The outgoing defense minister, Ya'alon of the Likud party was most certainly no dove. Yet he declared when he left the Knesset the last time after resigning his seat in protest, that he would not stand for the arch-right extremism of his party's leader anymore.
Bibi has finally gone over the top by battling the most revered entity of his country, the IDF, and even the center right press in Israel is up in arms about his country destroying policies, policies only enacted by him to stay in power of the an extremely shake government coalition.
The leaders of Israel's internal security force, Shin Bet, are also in uproar over his decisions.
All polls already show that Israelis prefer Ya'alon over Lieberman by 51% over 27%. As a Jewish American I can only hope that Israelis will finally decide to send Bibi into retirement.
9
Yesterday Netanyahu asked the visiting French ambassador to set up a sit down with Abbas to talk peace. Abbas said no. Last month, VP Biden, while visiting, asked Abbas and Netanyahu to sign on to a peace process, Netanyahu said yes while Abbas said no. I could go on for awhile. None of this, of course, was reported in the NYTimes.
Since winning the presidency of the Palestinian Authority 11 years ago (6 years past the end of his term) Abbas has said no to every peace proposal comfortable in the fact that the NYTimes will continue to blame Netanyahu for the lack of progress. While Netanyahu's latest move, putting an unqualified political hack in charge of the IDF, won't advance the peace process, Mr. Abbas has made sure that their isn't a peace process. Despite 7 years of the most pro-Palestinian President in US history, the Palestinians are no closer to a state because they choose not to be.
Since winning the presidency of the Palestinian Authority 11 years ago (6 years past the end of his term) Abbas has said no to every peace proposal comfortable in the fact that the NYTimes will continue to blame Netanyahu for the lack of progress. While Netanyahu's latest move, putting an unqualified political hack in charge of the IDF, won't advance the peace process, Mr. Abbas has made sure that their isn't a peace process. Despite 7 years of the most pro-Palestinian President in US history, the Palestinians are no closer to a state because they choose not to be.
17
The French government recently asked Netanyahu and Abbas to sit down for talks. Abbas agreed, Bibi did not.
You got it backwards from what was reported in the Israeli press.
You got it backwards from what was reported in the Israeli press.
6
This choice is clear and consistent.
Zionist Jewish Israel is a colonial apartheid Jim Crow state sponsor of terrorism with nukes. The 6 million Palestinians under Israeli dominion by occupation, blockade/siege, exile and 2nd class citizenship are denied their divine natural equal certain unalienable rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness by malice aforethought.
Israel is no more a democracy than were slave and Jim Crow era and apartheid South Africa. Israeli claims to be both Jewish and democratic are inane and immoral. By partially defining itself by faith and ethnicity, the 6.1 million Jewish Israelis are more equal, better and privileged than any Christian or Muslim. Israel can be Jewish or democratic. It can not be both. There is no right of return to their Holy Land for Christians or Muslims.
The two-state "solution" is a chimera delusional deception. Neither a Zionist Jewish state of Israel nor an Islamist Muslim state of Palestine would be a civil secular plural egalitarian democracy. While the Jewish state would be normal and natural the Palestinian "entity" would be a neutered lobotomized monstrosity with no military, physically divided and incapable of independent foreign national defense security policy.
Avigdor Lieberman was born and raised in the Soviet Union. He is a criminal colonial terrorist occupying the West Bank. There are no Israeli "settlers" nor Palestinian "terrorists". There is only the one-state moral just secular solution.
Zionist Jewish Israel is a colonial apartheid Jim Crow state sponsor of terrorism with nukes. The 6 million Palestinians under Israeli dominion by occupation, blockade/siege, exile and 2nd class citizenship are denied their divine natural equal certain unalienable rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness by malice aforethought.
Israel is no more a democracy than were slave and Jim Crow era and apartheid South Africa. Israeli claims to be both Jewish and democratic are inane and immoral. By partially defining itself by faith and ethnicity, the 6.1 million Jewish Israelis are more equal, better and privileged than any Christian or Muslim. Israel can be Jewish or democratic. It can not be both. There is no right of return to their Holy Land for Christians or Muslims.
The two-state "solution" is a chimera delusional deception. Neither a Zionist Jewish state of Israel nor an Islamist Muslim state of Palestine would be a civil secular plural egalitarian democracy. While the Jewish state would be normal and natural the Palestinian "entity" would be a neutered lobotomized monstrosity with no military, physically divided and incapable of independent foreign national defense security policy.
Avigdor Lieberman was born and raised in the Soviet Union. He is a criminal colonial terrorist occupying the West Bank. There are no Israeli "settlers" nor Palestinian "terrorists". There is only the one-state moral just secular solution.
17
Lies. The Arabs that live within Israel have full civil rights and more rights than any Arab in any state in the middle east.
15
Baffling? Not at all - Likud doesn't want peace, it wants the rest of Palestine, and it wants to frame Israel as the poor victim as it continues to bulldoze Arab homes and periodically bomb hospitals and schools under the excuse they all had rockets.
http://www.juancole.com/2014/08/charter-destruction-palestinian.html
The naked racism of Netanyahu's cabinet would make David Duke blush:
http://www.mintpressnews.com/netanyahus-genocidal-cabinet-promises-more-...
But here's what - it's Israel, its Jews - so they get a pass. Criticism is "anti-Semitism" no matter how legitimate. Israeli state terror adds to the extant, genuine anti-Semitism all of which combines to insulate Israel from criticism at the level of governments.
Candidates for President now generally feel they must fly to Israel, a tiny foreign state of 8 million, to get a photo op at the Western Wall. The Times and other major papers cover Israel all the time, but scarecely ever cover the occupation or settler violence.
Baffling?
Not to those of us who have been following the occupation, and the strategies of its apologists.
http://www.juancole.com/2014/08/charter-destruction-palestinian.html
The naked racism of Netanyahu's cabinet would make David Duke blush:
http://www.mintpressnews.com/netanyahus-genocidal-cabinet-promises-more-...
But here's what - it's Israel, its Jews - so they get a pass. Criticism is "anti-Semitism" no matter how legitimate. Israeli state terror adds to the extant, genuine anti-Semitism all of which combines to insulate Israel from criticism at the level of governments.
Candidates for President now generally feel they must fly to Israel, a tiny foreign state of 8 million, to get a photo op at the Western Wall. The Times and other major papers cover Israel all the time, but scarecely ever cover the occupation or settler violence.
Baffling?
Not to those of us who have been following the occupation, and the strategies of its apologists.
12
Nothing at all "baffling" about Bibi's extremism.
He knows he can do whatever he wants,
say whatever he wants, and
we'll still give him whatever he wants!
It's like Pakistan and Saudi Arabia.
Regardless of the multitude and long-standing actions they take that directly undercut US interests (and the interests of the world),
that directly cause the deaths of some of America's bravest men and women,
we sit quietly,
like the bullied kid in school,
swallow our pride (do we have any?),
and then "repay" them with billions of dollars in aid that our country needs
(in the case of Saudi Arabia, we just sit on our haunches while Saudi Arabia single-handedly perverts Islam across the globe, and individual Saudis fund terrorism everywhere you can think of).
Israel, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, these are the countries we've been calling "friends" for decades?
What does that say about us?
Where is our judgment, intelligence and common sense?
He knows he can do whatever he wants,
say whatever he wants, and
we'll still give him whatever he wants!
It's like Pakistan and Saudi Arabia.
Regardless of the multitude and long-standing actions they take that directly undercut US interests (and the interests of the world),
that directly cause the deaths of some of America's bravest men and women,
we sit quietly,
like the bullied kid in school,
swallow our pride (do we have any?),
and then "repay" them with billions of dollars in aid that our country needs
(in the case of Saudi Arabia, we just sit on our haunches while Saudi Arabia single-handedly perverts Islam across the globe, and individual Saudis fund terrorism everywhere you can think of).
Israel, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, these are the countries we've been calling "friends" for decades?
What does that say about us?
Where is our judgment, intelligence and common sense?
12
Mr. Netanyahu,
A big THANK YOU. You have promoted our cause enormously.
The BDS Movement.
A big THANK YOU. You have promoted our cause enormously.
The BDS Movement.
12
why don't we send a Muslim (e.g. GOP Congressman Darrel Issa) as US Ambassador to Israel and see how that like that?
3
Darrel [sic] Issa is quite right wing. A Muslim he is not. According to you everyone of Lebanese descent must be Muslim, despite the fact that Lebanon had and still has a large percentage of Christians.
6
Perfect timing to withdraw our unwavering support for Israel. Israel doesn't want peace they just want our money. Support of Israel has gotten us nothing for our tax dollars except the promise of more wasted dollars and more problems in the Middle East. Time to turn off that hose and use it here to fix our own infrastructure.
14
And who on the Palestinian side wants peace?
12
We don't support the Palestinians with defense dollars or other military support. Israel is no longer a victim. They continue to encroach on disputed lands, etc. The direction it has taken in recent years should give us pause in our unwavering support.
7
For Netanyahu to retain power there must be perceived enemies against which he can portray himself as Israel's great protector. In 2014 when the Palestinians formed an internationally recognized unity government and peace threatened, he destroyed the threat by intentionally provoking Hamas and starting the "severe punishment" of the people of Gaza. Now that the US has neutralized his "existential threat" of a nuclear armed Iran and world leaders are about to condemn the occupation and formally recognize the State of Palestine Netanyahu needs to create even more enemies both inside and outside Israel in order to hang onto power.
The result will not be good for the State of Israel.
The result will not be good for the State of Israel.
13
Peace with the war mongering terrorist supporting Palestinians is not the most important thing on the Israeli agenda. Maintaining a defensible Jewish State is the top priority. Just yesterday the NY Times ran a piece about the Palestinian plan to use tunnels to slaughter Israeli children.
The bottom line is that the U.S. will continue to support Israel because Israel is the only country engaged in an all out war with Islamic extremism. When the Palestinians want peace, all they have to do is seal up their tunnels, throw down their weapons, tell their own children to stop attacking Jewish civilians, and come to the table.
Gee-- why haven't they done that.
The bottom line is that the U.S. will continue to support Israel because Israel is the only country engaged in an all out war with Islamic extremism. When the Palestinians want peace, all they have to do is seal up their tunnels, throw down their weapons, tell their own children to stop attacking Jewish civilians, and come to the table.
Gee-- why haven't they done that.
14
Not baffling at all, Netanyahu has no fear of losing the support of the United States.
9
Nor should he.
4
One more step closer to End Times, folks! That is, if you believe in that stuff, which I do not. But you never know......
This is the perverse dynamic between Netanyahu and the GOP: they give him carte blanche, encourage him to alienate Palestinians and other Muslims even more recklessly because they want a world-destroying war to start up in the Middle East. That is the precondition for the return of the Messiah, according to Revelations.
But here is the perverse part: when the Second Coming happens, Jews will either die in a pit of fire or convert to become followers of Jesus. So Netanyahu is their hero! For the time being, any way.
Dear American Jews and Israelis: it is completely self destructive for you to call these people your allies in any rational way. They are your "give them enough rope" betrayers.
This is the perverse dynamic between Netanyahu and the GOP: they give him carte blanche, encourage him to alienate Palestinians and other Muslims even more recklessly because they want a world-destroying war to start up in the Middle East. That is the precondition for the return of the Messiah, according to Revelations.
But here is the perverse part: when the Second Coming happens, Jews will either die in a pit of fire or convert to become followers of Jesus. So Netanyahu is their hero! For the time being, any way.
Dear American Jews and Israelis: it is completely self destructive for you to call these people your allies in any rational way. They are your "give them enough rope" betrayers.
4
So ridiculous... you act as though the Palestinians are standing at border checkpoints with olive branches in their hands, waiting to release white doves.
9
Avigdor is a self appointed Israeli patriot, his main focus is the survival of the Jewish State,even If it means alienation from the world & the United States, so be it.He is also a hypocrite.He derides Obama, & at the same time is acceptable to billions in aid from the United States.His appointment is a slap in the face to the American tax payer, who foot the bill for the aid that Israel receives from us.
Let me state, I am not a Palestinian sympathizer, & I am a avid supporter of Israel, but most of all, I am realist.There must be a Palestinian State, & a sincere effort for peace in the area. Israel must leave the West Bank, & allow a Palestinian presence in Jerusalem & control over their holy sites, but most important with or without the agreement from the Palestinians declare a independent Palestine State.This will enable Israel to rejoin the rest of the World.
Let me state, I am not a Palestinian sympathizer, & I am a avid supporter of Israel, but most of all, I am realist.There must be a Palestinian State, & a sincere effort for peace in the area. Israel must leave the West Bank, & allow a Palestinian presence in Jerusalem & control over their holy sites, but most important with or without the agreement from the Palestinians declare a independent Palestine State.This will enable Israel to rejoin the rest of the World.
7
What Palestinian leaders are prepared to recognize Israel as a nation?
13
Americans, outside of Israel Firsters, increasingly realize that Israel is not a true ally, but a "frenemy"
http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2014/11/23/israel-americas-biggest-fr...
one that spies on the US relentllessly..
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-accuses-israel-of-al...
While perpetually using a 5th column comprised of aipac, jinsa, the adl, and others to meddle in US politics.
I think Americans are broadly pro-Israel, but tired of the blank check.
Stop the military aid to Israel, and stop using color of law to try to stop the BDS movement, which, at least at time of writing, is still protected 1st Amendment activity.
http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2014/11/23/israel-americas-biggest-fr...
one that spies on the US relentllessly..
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-accuses-israel-of-al...
While perpetually using a 5th column comprised of aipac, jinsa, the adl, and others to meddle in US politics.
I think Americans are broadly pro-Israel, but tired of the blank check.
Stop the military aid to Israel, and stop using color of law to try to stop the BDS movement, which, at least at time of writing, is still protected 1st Amendment activity.
12
Allies spy on each other all the time. For example the US bugged Merkel's phone. Grow up.
9
I'm surprised that anyone would find the selection of an Israeli hardliner as foreign minister baffling. Anyone with eyes to see with and ears to hear with knows that Israel has no intention of pursuing a two state solution or giving up any of its territory on the West Bank of the Jordan River. That ship sailed a long time ago. Mr. Lieberman's selection as foreign minister is totally understandable in light of those facts.
Israel and Netanyahu are in the process of turning Israel into a state run by and for orthodox Jewry where Arabs are treated as second class citizens with limited, if any, rights. Why we continue to support this budding theocracy is beyond me.
Israel and Netanyahu are in the process of turning Israel into a state run by and for orthodox Jewry where Arabs are treated as second class citizens with limited, if any, rights. Why we continue to support this budding theocracy is beyond me.
10
The one thing that makes this move possible is the fact that our own members of Congress, of both parties, are of a like mind with Netanyahu when it comes to keeping their jobs. Many members of Congress are deathly afraid that any lack of unquestioning support for Israel will result in a severe blow to their election chances courtesy AIPAC and certain big money donors, thus Netanyahu can act with impunity. The 'Israel right or wrong' crowd has a majority of the US Congress wrapped around its finger. The American people, on the other hand, are getting increasingly annoyed with having the tail wag the dog.
9
I just returned from a humanitarian mission to Israel.
Visiting hospitals, orphanages, medical centers, first responders and more.
In every case Arabs, Palestinians, Christians and jews were treated equally.
First responders don't look for children wearing skull caps or ignore those with scarfs symbolizing intifada. Doctors treat every patient as if it was their own child.
Can anyone show me a single ARAB country that would do the same?
This is just one reason why america stands United with Israel.
A country living amongst constant threat of complete destruction treats every life as valuable. Even its enemies.
When Israel has a true partner for peace, peace will come.
Visiting hospitals, orphanages, medical centers, first responders and more.
In every case Arabs, Palestinians, Christians and jews were treated equally.
First responders don't look for children wearing skull caps or ignore those with scarfs symbolizing intifada. Doctors treat every patient as if it was their own child.
Can anyone show me a single ARAB country that would do the same?
This is just one reason why america stands United with Israel.
A country living amongst constant threat of complete destruction treats every life as valuable. Even its enemies.
When Israel has a true partner for peace, peace will come.
57
Quite correct and that will only happen when one side understands that the deal will be worse the longer they continue to be terrorists.
5
Can you show me an 'Arab' country that has the resources and infrastructure and sheer monetary support that Israel has? Other than S.A. and the UAE, which are dictatorships the US helps prop us, and which Israel is quite happy to sustain, as long as there's no trouble on the border.
5
My goodness, a government official proposing the death penalty for convicted terrorists! What civilized nation would ever dream of such a thing? Has Israel gone mad?
The United States should be looked upon as a shining example on how it deals with convicted terrorists. Timothy McVeigh and the Boston Bomber just to name two.
Those in glass houses.....?
The United States should be looked upon as a shining example on how it deals with convicted terrorists. Timothy McVeigh and the Boston Bomber just to name two.
Those in glass houses.....?
7
You know, nobody denies Israel's right to defend itself.
The thing is, the media and the online hasbara army perpetually describe Israel's aggressive acts
http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2014/07/08/who-started-the-cycle-of-v...
as defense, and deny to the Palestinians the same rights they loudly demand for the much stronger side.
Likud and Shas are far right, racist parties.
If only the Times finally said so.
The thing is, the media and the online hasbara army perpetually describe Israel's aggressive acts
http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2014/07/08/who-started-the-cycle-of-v...
as defense, and deny to the Palestinians the same rights they loudly demand for the much stronger side.
Likud and Shas are far right, racist parties.
If only the Times finally said so.
9
When we stop AIPAC and Adelson from controlling our congress we will make better decisions for America. Israel is not part of our country; just an ungrateful dependent; not an ally. Jews don't seem to understand that. There is a crazy unquestioning support for war mongering soon to be fascist government ( just ask the Israeli military)that clouds the discussion. We need to be in the world and move towards peace; not more war for a tiny self serving entity.
10
"But the administration had at least established a working relationship with Moshe Yaalon, the tough but pragmatic defense minister who resigned once the offer to Mr. Lieberman became known. "
I would like to know what this "working relationship" was. Yaalon bitterly complained that Secretary Kerry is "obsessed about peace", so once the Administration abandoned that pursuit the relationship was "working". But in that case, what is wrong about Lieberman?
Additionally, there are two "Jewish + Home" or "Israel + Home" parties in Israel, both ultra nationalistic, so nothing much changed in the make up of the government (now the coalition has both of them rather than one).
From the inception, the Netanyahu government was steadfast against any "overtures to the Palestinians", so if this is a priority, a very different policy toward Israel is needed.
I would like to know what this "working relationship" was. Yaalon bitterly complained that Secretary Kerry is "obsessed about peace", so once the Administration abandoned that pursuit the relationship was "working". But in that case, what is wrong about Lieberman?
Additionally, there are two "Jewish + Home" or "Israel + Home" parties in Israel, both ultra nationalistic, so nothing much changed in the make up of the government (now the coalition has both of them rather than one).
From the inception, the Netanyahu government was steadfast against any "overtures to the Palestinians", so if this is a priority, a very different policy toward Israel is needed.
8
Baffling to whom?
With due respect - it could only be baffling to those who rely on perpetually slanted MSM coverage.
The truth is while Israel is cast as perpetual, innocent victim, it is the side with the massive military and paramilitary machine, and it occupies and controls the airspace and sea-space of an indigenous people, as it also builds Jewish only colonies in their midst, all while claiming to only want "peace".
But Israel's right and much of the middle don't want peace - they want all of Palestine and all that remains is to find or create a pretext for a second massive ethnic cleansing.
Baffling? No - not at all, the rise of racial supremacism and extremism in Israel has been long noted
http://www.alternet.org/world/how-israel-covers-its-ugly-racial-holy-war
But some rabbis, in the best traditions of Judaism, are pushing back:
http://www.alternet.org/grayzone-project/shocked-rise-jewish-extremism-i...
Why won't Israel stop building settlements?
Because it intends to keep playing games, keep bulldozing Palestinian homes, and keep using US tax dollars to build settlements and periodically bomb Syrian forces as they battle Al Qaeda and ISIS.
With due respect - it could only be baffling to those who rely on perpetually slanted MSM coverage.
The truth is while Israel is cast as perpetual, innocent victim, it is the side with the massive military and paramilitary machine, and it occupies and controls the airspace and sea-space of an indigenous people, as it also builds Jewish only colonies in their midst, all while claiming to only want "peace".
But Israel's right and much of the middle don't want peace - they want all of Palestine and all that remains is to find or create a pretext for a second massive ethnic cleansing.
Baffling? No - not at all, the rise of racial supremacism and extremism in Israel has been long noted
http://www.alternet.org/world/how-israel-covers-its-ugly-racial-holy-war
But some rabbis, in the best traditions of Judaism, are pushing back:
http://www.alternet.org/grayzone-project/shocked-rise-jewish-extremism-i...
Why won't Israel stop building settlements?
Because it intends to keep playing games, keep bulldozing Palestinian homes, and keep using US tax dollars to build settlements and periodically bomb Syrian forces as they battle Al Qaeda and ISIS.
11
an excellent, under-reported point. the Catholic and Orthodox leaders in Israel finally protested to the Israeli government because of the amount of Christian churches and monasteries being burned and vandalized by Jewish "settlers."
http://www.mintpressnews.com/jewish-extremists-burn-historic-church-in-i...
The difference between Palestinian and Jewish extremists is that the latter tend not to make the news.
http://www.mintpressnews.com/jewish-extremists-burn-historic-church-in-i...
The difference between Palestinian and Jewish extremists is that the latter tend not to make the news.
7
Netanyahu puts himself first and Israel second. He protects his position of power by putting the future of the country at risk. With the slide into extremism he divides Israelis and alienates the world.
8
I never thought I would say this . .
but . .
I am ashamed to call Israel my home.
but . .
I am ashamed to call Israel my home.
7
Bibi, Trump, and Putin belong together in a threesome and should leave the rest of the world alone.
7
No surprise here. Netanyahu has been sticking it in President Obama's ear since he was elected going so far as to tacitly support his friend Romney. And then he has the gall to complain about the size of our defense support for Israel.
7
"Mr. Netanyahu may think his political needs are more important than relations with the soon-to-end Obama administration".
You cant have it both ways.
Mr. Netanyahu was vilified for meddling in American Politics during negotiations with Iran. Now we have the right to demand he pick specific leaders of Israel that are approved by Obama?
BTW, its now pretty obvious that Mr. Netanyahu smelled something sour about those negotiations. Looks like he was right.
You cant have it both ways.
Mr. Netanyahu was vilified for meddling in American Politics during negotiations with Iran. Now we have the right to demand he pick specific leaders of Israel that are approved by Obama?
BTW, its now pretty obvious that Mr. Netanyahu smelled something sour about those negotiations. Looks like he was right.
6
And let us not forget Obama's attempt to meddle in the most recent Israeli election.
7
Realistically, would a left wing politician keep Israel safe from enemies at this point? If I were an Israeli citizen I would trust Liberman to keep me safe from Iran. The death penalty for convicted terrorists sounds good to me.
5
The biggest impediment today to Middle East peace is our support of Israel. Netanyahu is morally bankrupt. I have no respect for him and his supporters. Israel is long long overdue in its moral obligation to the Palestinian statehood.
Israel has become the edifice to moral hypocrisy.
Time for us in America to let them go.
Israel has become the edifice to moral hypocrisy.
Time for us in America to let them go.
8
Everyone of our leaders has a "bad side" and Israeli supporters know all the "dirt".
1
Not baffling if Israel is once again priming its defense arms to attack Iran once and for all and destroy its nuclear capability.
And what would the US do if its ally did such a thing?
I so wish the Israeli left were able to gain power, but war adds so much fear to the mix peace is ignored.
I am convinced there will never be peace in the Middle East for the US until we leave as we left Southeast Asia. Just leave. Let Israel and its neighbors figure things out, or not.
Hugh Massengill, Eugene
And what would the US do if its ally did such a thing?
I so wish the Israeli left were able to gain power, but war adds so much fear to the mix peace is ignored.
I am convinced there will never be peace in the Middle East for the US until we leave as we left Southeast Asia. Just leave. Let Israel and its neighbors figure things out, or not.
Hugh Massengill, Eugene
1
Yes, of course the Times would find the choice of Lieberman, Israel's Donald Trump, 'baffling.' No less 'baffling' than the meteoric rise of Trump in his quest to be POTUS. The Liberal MSM finds anyone not in lockstep with its agenda to be 'baffling.'
4
The U.S. response will be to give Israel more money and continue to be their lone protective veto in the United Nations. Netanyahu knows this. He doesn't care what we think of Lieberman.
The United States has enabled Israel's bad behavior for years, which in turn has harmed the national security and strategic interests of the United States.
Obama has been powerless before the Israeli Lobby.
The United States has enabled Israel's bad behavior for years, which in turn has harmed the national security and strategic interests of the United States.
Obama has been powerless before the Israeli Lobby.
8
Sometimes you have to wonder if Israel believes that the US is unconditionally committed to Israel regardless of whether it is right or wrong. It certainly acts that way on many occasions. Israel is one of the few countries whose leaders will come directly to the American people when it does not like our government's policies towards Israel.
In this case, even Mr. Netanyahu seems to think the appointment of Mr. Lieberman is the wrong move, but he did it anyway. Mr. Netanyahu must think he does not have to deal with any consequences from the US, because he has other ways of taking care of them.
Until we get tired of being treated this way by a "friend," we are going to have to grin and bear it. Usually, usually for friendship to survive, it has to be a two way street. Some day, however, things may go too far, and there will be consequences.
In this case, even Mr. Netanyahu seems to think the appointment of Mr. Lieberman is the wrong move, but he did it anyway. Mr. Netanyahu must think he does not have to deal with any consequences from the US, because he has other ways of taking care of them.
Until we get tired of being treated this way by a "friend," we are going to have to grin and bear it. Usually, usually for friendship to survive, it has to be a two way street. Some day, however, things may go too far, and there will be consequences.
6
Mr. Netanyahu is right to be highly skeptical of the Palestinians ability to strike an effective peace deal. They do not seem to have the will and desire to do so.
But what is Mr. Netanyahu’s end game? Why the animosity towards the leaders of the West? He has shown contempt for President Obama, John Kerry, President Hollande and British Foreign Secretary, Philip Hammond. He and his Likud allies blame liberal Jews for Israel’s woes and then cozy up to Saudi Arabia.
The defense and protection of Israel relies on that country’s solid and unbreakable alliances with the US, the UK, Germany and France; countries who will proudly come to Israel’s aid with no questions asked. Countries who give aid to Israel and whose leaders speak out against anti-Semitism, as shown recently by Britain’s David Cameron openly blasting the opposing Labour Party, following anti-Israeli remarks made by one of its members. The same cannot be said of Saudi Arabia, where they would die rather than open an Israeli embassy.
OK, so Mr. Netanyahu was politically savvy enough to run against President Obama in the March 2015 elections and it worked, giving his Likud Party 30 of the 120 seats up for contest. But was that in Israel’s best long-term interest? Such a move secured his position but I think the position of his fellow countrymen is best safeguarded by a lasting and harmonious relationship with the Western allies.
Let’s all do our part to make sure this happens.
But what is Mr. Netanyahu’s end game? Why the animosity towards the leaders of the West? He has shown contempt for President Obama, John Kerry, President Hollande and British Foreign Secretary, Philip Hammond. He and his Likud allies blame liberal Jews for Israel’s woes and then cozy up to Saudi Arabia.
The defense and protection of Israel relies on that country’s solid and unbreakable alliances with the US, the UK, Germany and France; countries who will proudly come to Israel’s aid with no questions asked. Countries who give aid to Israel and whose leaders speak out against anti-Semitism, as shown recently by Britain’s David Cameron openly blasting the opposing Labour Party, following anti-Israeli remarks made by one of its members. The same cannot be said of Saudi Arabia, where they would die rather than open an Israeli embassy.
OK, so Mr. Netanyahu was politically savvy enough to run against President Obama in the March 2015 elections and it worked, giving his Likud Party 30 of the 120 seats up for contest. But was that in Israel’s best long-term interest? Such a move secured his position but I think the position of his fellow countrymen is best safeguarded by a lasting and harmonious relationship with the Western allies.
Let’s all do our part to make sure this happens.
2
This is the government that the Israelis have chosen.
1
"The timing of this changing of the guard is particularly sensitive because a critical 10-year defense agreement establishing new levels of American military aid for Israel is in the final stages of negotiations."
On Netanyahu's part it's called not giving a rat's patoot about the future of the Middle East and just caring about his own political career. Easy solution for the US -- stop giving military aid to Israel -- let them finance their brand of hate and stupidity and let the Sheldon Adelson's of the world provide their bankroll -- not the American taxpayer.
On Netanyahu's part it's called not giving a rat's patoot about the future of the Middle East and just caring about his own political career. Easy solution for the US -- stop giving military aid to Israel -- let them finance their brand of hate and stupidity and let the Sheldon Adelson's of the world provide their bankroll -- not the American taxpayer.
4
"Baffling," really? Netanyahu is not an honest broker and never has been. Trust him least when he softens his language to appease an American government that has given in to him too much and too often.
4
Sanders for Israeli prime minister!
2
The military in Israel should resist the imposition of this warmonger and obey only the generals, until Lieberman is OUT.
3
I don't like the current Israeli government, I believe that it is past time for new ideas.
However,
Why does an Israeli government appointment, even one as important as the Defense Minister, need to be made to the approval of the Obama administration? I don't recall our Secretary of State needing to be approved by Canada, England, Russia or Israel?
This type of editorial is self serving and playing to your extremely liberal base.
However,
Why does an Israeli government appointment, even one as important as the Defense Minister, need to be made to the approval of the Obama administration? I don't recall our Secretary of State needing to be approved by Canada, England, Russia or Israel?
This type of editorial is self serving and playing to your extremely liberal base.
8
I'm getting tired of this game. Israel does what ever it wants and we give them $5 billion plus a year to make it happen. This is like a bribe to a bad actor. Time to scrap the 10 year plan and restrict it to $2 billion a year for 5 years. There has to be a penalty for this.
7
You know, if only this government were not ruling Israel, if only they weren't Jews - the Times would describe this government as what it is - far right, racist, and not at all interested in peace.
Stop sending them our money.
http://www.wrmea.org/2015-october/a-conservative-estimate-of-total-u.s.-...$138-billion.html
Enough.
Stop sending them our money.
http://www.wrmea.org/2015-october/a-conservative-estimate-of-total-u.s.-...$138-billion.html
Enough.
10
By making any reference to "the next American president" you are abandoning any seriousness to this article. You'll have to wait until November to predict support for or the direction of any relationship with Israel. If Trump is involved it will become a crap shoot.
1
There is no media 'voice' which is more disrespected for its blatant anti-Israel bias and intentional misreporting of factual events in the country than the NY Times.
5
The pending appointment of Avigdor Lieberman as defense minster comes as no surprise to those of us who have followed Israel and the career of Benjamin Netanyahu. They are both ultranationalists and likely both psychopaths. This is yet another signal that it's time to cut ties with this fatally flawed state.
6
Netanyahu believes the 2 state solution is dead because he and his party never intended to do anything but Judaize the West Bank, subsidized by US taxpayer dollars, as the US sent Jewish men to act as Israel's lawyer in bad faith negotiations, as the US used its veto power to protect Israel from substantive diplomatic and economic sanctions that state under its racist, right wing government richly deserves.
9
Simple enough. Cut off the billions we annually give Israel until they resolve their atrocious human rights situation.
8
indeed, at a minimum, we should not have to pay for it:
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stat/usaid.html
If Israel doesn't want our comments on the issue, they can start refusing our money and weapons.
If only our politicians weren't bought and paid for on the issue by the Israel First lobby...
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stat/usaid.html
If Israel doesn't want our comments on the issue, they can start refusing our money and weapons.
If only our politicians weren't bought and paid for on the issue by the Israel First lobby...
5
Not at all baffling from a politician who saved his last election with the racist warning that: 'Arab voters are heading to the polling stations in droves'. Netanyahu cares only about himself and his political status.
5
"Israeli soldier arrested for executing a wounded Palestinian."
He wasn't charged yet, yet the NYT is the judge and executor.
He wasn't charged yet, yet the NYT is the judge and executor.
5
Let's see if I have the current hypocritical Israel bashing talking points straight. Barack Obama and his administration will be gone this time next year and yet they still feel they have every right to meddle in Israel's internal affairs. Yet whenever I read the comments everyone moans and groans that our persistent meddling in Middle Eastern affairs has led to nothing but trouble for us. Naturally, Israel is the only exception to the rule. Then the same commenters who want us to back away from the Middle East feel it's perfectly OK for America (especially when there's a left of center president in the White House) to interfere in Israeli internal affairs. I vividly remember that the Times Editorial Board threw a three week hissy fit on the OP Ed pages when--surprise, surprise--Benjamin Netanyahu was re-elected as Israel's prime minister. Barack Obama and the Times' attempt to engineer "regime change" in Israel was an epic fail which they could never live down.
7
THIS IS BIBI. He's paid lip service to the "two state peace process" while building as many settlements as the can buy concrete for. This is no more baffling than his anti-Arab rants he used to secure his last election.
4
"But the administration had at least established a working relationship with Moshe Yaalon, the tough but pragmatic defense minister who resigned once the offer to Mr. Lieberman became known."
Why is it I think the "tough but pragmatic" leader the times would have for Israel is Neville Chamberlain?
Why is it I think the "tough but pragmatic" leader the times would have for Israel is Neville Chamberlain?
5
The comment censors of the NY times are very careful about what comments they allow vis a vis israel, netanyahu or AIPAC!
8
Thank you Prime Minister Netanyahu for choosing the appropriate representative of the Israeli people. The once hopeful Israelis have given up on a two state solution as they continue to get stabbed weekly in and around Jerusalem which goes unreported by this newspaper. They have learned that their generosity of giving up Gaza resulted only in its' desecration and a place to further Hamas terrorism. Where the Israelis built that desert area into farmland & businesses, the Palestinians continue to only build underground tunnels that aim rockets into Israel. The Israelis get hit from both sides not to mention the concern now with the tenuous Iran deal with America.
The Palestinians have made it clear that a two state solution will only be an opportunity for them to destroy what remaining land there will be of Israel. No one in the world cares about Israel so they must protect themselves. Hasn't that always been the history of the Jewish people?
The Palestinians have made it clear that a two state solution will only be an opportunity for them to destroy what remaining land there will be of Israel. No one in the world cares about Israel so they must protect themselves. Hasn't that always been the history of the Jewish people?
14
Jane
"No one in the world cares about Israel so they must protect themselves. Hasn't that always been the history of the Jewish people?"
We care about a liberal democratic Israel. We reject a theocratic fascist Israel.
We welcomed Israel into the world community, and we now see Netanyahu thumbing his nose at us. If most Israelis support the extremism of their government, then we can no longer support Israel. It didn't have to be this way.
"No one in the world cares about Israel so they must protect themselves. Hasn't that always been the history of the Jewish people?"
We care about a liberal democratic Israel. We reject a theocratic fascist Israel.
We welcomed Israel into the world community, and we now see Netanyahu thumbing his nose at us. If most Israelis support the extremism of their government, then we can no longer support Israel. It didn't have to be this way.
5
The relationship between PM Netanyahu and the Obama administration did not become severely strained by virtue of the nuclear deal with Iran.
It was strained by virtue of such things as Netanyahu's public berating of the President soon after the latter assumed office, his virtually open endorsement of Mitt Romney in 2012, and his ill-conceived address to Congress at the behest of the President's political opponents.
The deal with Iran was inevitable - the other nations involved would have lifted sanctions no matter what. It became the convenient excuse for an already strained relationship.
It was strained by virtue of such things as Netanyahu's public berating of the President soon after the latter assumed office, his virtually open endorsement of Mitt Romney in 2012, and his ill-conceived address to Congress at the behest of the President's political opponents.
The deal with Iran was inevitable - the other nations involved would have lifted sanctions no matter what. It became the convenient excuse for an already strained relationship.
7
BIBI'S BOO BOO Bibi has shown such a tin ear for the tenor of the times internationally as well as domestically that he is moving toward the snide observation that was made of the late Yasser Arafat by Kissinger and others: He never misses an opportunity to miss an opportunity. It's not funny, and nobody's laughing. Bibi is placing at risk the funding of military aid by the US, a dangerous game of chicken, showing that even a chicken can bite the hand that feeds it. As a Jewish American, I have grave concern for the wellbeing of Israel, the nation of the Torah, commanded by what is written in the Five Books of Moses, to pursue justice, a pursuit that extends to all peoples. Lieberman has a record of abusing his power and going out of his way to insult and provoke the Palestinians as well as the international community. He erodes Israel's security with his destructive statements and actions. That Bibi would appoint a man, saying, He hates me, slanders me is a dangerous man who stops at nothing, shows the political desperation, if not depravity of the Netanyahu. Lieberman, who is at odds with the Israeli military establishment, will take actions that will be like pouring gasoline on a fire. The last thing Israel needs is to be dragged into the Mideast conflagration. Lieberman will help the worst enemies of Israel to advance their cause among the community of nations, the last thing any nation needs right now, with Israel the first among them to need a lasting peace.
56
A lasting peace....with whom exactly?? Hamas? ISIS?
1
Time to cut the cord, just as Netanyahu would have done a long time ago had be been investing billions in an ungrateful country.
6
It seems that Israel and the United States have very different policies for the middle east, in fact I would not call israel a ally at this point. Say what you want, however the people of Israel have spoken with their vote and actions. Now we have this 10-year defense agreement establishing new levels of American military aid for Israel. Since times have changed and Israel is not an ally I believe this agreement should not be renewed, give the money to the American people by using it to rebuild our crumbling infrastructure thus creating jobs.
103
We have a history of giving tax breaks to the rich rather than rebuilding our infrastructure.
3
Bibi is anything but stupid. The NYT editorial board sits a long way from the realities on the ground in Israel and th Middle East. Let 's see ho it plays out. After all, it was Nixon who opened China, not a nice guy liberal.
10
Americans need to start looking very closely at how certain pro-Israeli lobby groups - by no means all Jewish organisations - buy US legislative and presidential votes. And make those legislators explain why supporting the Isreali government no matter what it does is good for US policy in the Middle East.
2
"Benjamin Netanyahu selected a defense minister badly suited to the Obama administration and to forging peace in the Middle East."
This NYT Editorial Board column sounds incredibly naive - along the lines of Neville Chamberlain's "Peace for our time" and we all know how that turned out. The last thing Netanyahu wants is peace with the Palestinians. What he wants is a greater Israel or lebensraum for those who prefer the irony. And little by little that's what he has been successfully achieving for years. It's time for the United States to take a stand against this Netanyahu madness and save Israel from itself in the process.
This NYT Editorial Board column sounds incredibly naive - along the lines of Neville Chamberlain's "Peace for our time" and we all know how that turned out. The last thing Netanyahu wants is peace with the Palestinians. What he wants is a greater Israel or lebensraum for those who prefer the irony. And little by little that's what he has been successfully achieving for years. It's time for the United States to take a stand against this Netanyahu madness and save Israel from itself in the process.
The only thing that is truly baffling is why we keep defending and supporting this troublesome, aggressive apartheid state. Why is it that any criticism of Israel is banned from the US media? Our country economically underwrites Israel yet is loathe to criticize its human rights abuses instead, enabling its rightward drift. One has to wonder what is in it for us?
144
Did you read this editorial? Criticism of Israel is hardly banned.
1
Apartheid? Where are the separate water fountains & bathrooms?
Why are there Arabs in the Israeli parliament & on the Israeli Supreme Court?
Why are there Arabs in the Israeli parliament & on the Israeli Supreme Court?
6
"Money" is in it for us. The military-industrial complex is in a war drought, and facing falling profits since Mr. Obama took office and reversed the insane Endless War policies of his predecessor. If (when?) war breaks out again between 'mid-east factions,' perhaps Israel will find out who else in the neighborhood has nuclear weapons.
Israel owns the Political establishment in the U.S. They can do no wrong.
5
Baffling? How about treacherous? How about war mongering? How about I am sickened by my American tax dollars being sent to support Israel's military?
6
If Trump is elected President, we will see a reversal of Obama's much-needed attempt to put a leash on Bibi. Why? Adelson, a casino magnate whose sole issue is "protecting" Israel. Adelson will give millions to Trump.
2
It's only baffling if you have not paid any attention for the last 6 years.
6
When was Mr. Netanyahu ever interested in a lasting peace with the Palestinians? This appointment of a hardliner is of no surprise to me. There will never be any hope for a lasting peace in that region for as long as Netanyahu is in power.
4
Perhaps the NYTs expose on how the media and people were manipulated by President Obama to favor the Iranian deal with the concomitant bashing of Netanyahu, who, it turns out was indeed correct on the issue, explains what led to this appointment.
8
He was indeed correct?!?!? The Iranian's have nukes?
Moderators -- Can we please, at very least, ensure that comments are actually grounded in reality and FACTS? Thanks.
Moderators -- Can we please, at very least, ensure that comments are actually grounded in reality and FACTS? Thanks.
2
Is anybody really surprised that Netanyahu would select someone he knows will cause the Obama administration problems? He has done nothing but disrespect our president his whole time in office. Bibi is a hateful warmonger. We need to stop financing his adventures until he comes to the table for negotiations and is willing to compromise. Let them war on their own dime, not mine. It is time for Americans to stop being put on a guilt trip because of our actions in the 1930's.
1
No new defense deal.
We should spend taxpayer money on the myriad of needs we have at home, not in support of an ally who acts to our national detriment.
Cut them off. Now.
We should spend taxpayer money on the myriad of needs we have at home, not in support of an ally who acts to our national detriment.
Cut them off. Now.
3
We would never have the amount of terror as the Israelis have, and for so long. We, like any other normal country, would have wiped such an enemy off the face of the earth long ago.
3
Lieberman is the perfect man for the job. In all of Israel history only the right wing and brave leader brought in long lasting peace. And Lieberman is the only one left with such a profile.
He is the only leader who suggest a viable practical solution with exchange of territories.
And who wouldn't want a dead sentence to convicted terrorists? Isn't what America is doing? Didn't we just killed the Taliban leader a few days ago?
He is the only one with real common sense.
He is the only leader who suggest a viable practical solution with exchange of territories.
And who wouldn't want a dead sentence to convicted terrorists? Isn't what America is doing? Didn't we just killed the Taliban leader a few days ago?
He is the only one with real common sense.
7
Cut them off without a cent. Israel is rich enough to defend itself without anymore handouts from the U.S. I for one am tired of their disrespect and meddling in U.S. politics.
2
Netanyahu is leading Israel off a cliff and onto the rocks of certain disaster. Installing Lieberman as defense minister is only the latest blunder. Among Lieberman's many faults are his enthusiastic support of Putin (the head of a kleptocracy and thugocracy) and his methods of governing, his statements that "disloyal" arabs should be beheaded, the list of crazy statement goes on and on. There are widespread suspicions regarding what happens to his political opponents (just like Putin's). Netanyahu and Lieberman now walk hand in hand down the road towards rejection by the civilized world and into the arms of ultra-right wing crazies and the forces trying to recreate the soviet empire.
4
"Baffling?"
Only to those that do not know the stated purpose of Bibi and his fellow conservatives long has been to (paraphrasing) "slowly, like a boa constrictor, slowly strangle the Palestinians."
The incremental, now sizable, settlements in "disputed" territories proves this.
Bibi long not only has thumbed his nose at his closest ally, this country, he has gravely and publicly insulted its president--- multiple times.
It is time to allow Israel the independence it has so obviously craved and immediately shut off all funding. I'm sure Mr. Adelson and AIPAC will be happy to make up for it.
Only to those that do not know the stated purpose of Bibi and his fellow conservatives long has been to (paraphrasing) "slowly, like a boa constrictor, slowly strangle the Palestinians."
The incremental, now sizable, settlements in "disputed" territories proves this.
Bibi long not only has thumbed his nose at his closest ally, this country, he has gravely and publicly insulted its president--- multiple times.
It is time to allow Israel the independence it has so obviously craved and immediately shut off all funding. I'm sure Mr. Adelson and AIPAC will be happy to make up for it.
4
Why are we not asking our three presidential candidates about this? Where are the debates?
2
@AS: The issues surrounding Lieberman, Ukraine, Poroschenko, Kolomoisky, Bibi and our part in the coup in the Ukraine are not allowed to be discussed, these hot button topics which could have huge implications for America, in particular if we were dragged into a shooting war with Russia(China and Iran) over Israels expansionary policies are always cloaked in the veil of anti Semitic in nature. If you want facts go to the excellent opposition paper in Israel "Harretz", (not the throw away right wing rag owned by Adelson to promote Bibis Likud party). The Ukraine issue and the thought that A.I.P.A.C. shill Hillary could have her finger on the button is frightening and should be our biggest foreign policy concern. We must disengage from this mess, hasn't setting the Middle East aflame, creating the worst refugee problem since W.W.II, leading too a pivot to the right and a wave of anti semitism in Europe, the likely implosion of the E.U., thousands of American lives, trillions of American taxpayer dollars and hundreds of thousands dead been enough? Bernie is the only one who acknowledges how dire the situation is and this has earned him the enimminity of A.I.P.A.C., Adelson and the rest of the right wing neo con crowd in America and abroad. We must stop pandering to these interests, its destroying our nation, we need to cut Israel loose, forcing them to behave like global citizens not occupiers. Let's solve our own problems before we attempt to police the world.
3
Two thoughts.
First, thanks for this editorial. This recent appointment needs to be condemned widely and loudly and your piece here is a start.
Second, the appointment is hardly surprising. It confirms that Netanyahu is an unprincipled political actor that does not deal with the world, including us, in good faith. His Israel has never had any interest in accommodation with the Palestinians and it does what it does, everyone else be damned.
One would like to hope that the next president would do what he or she could to distance us from them. But with one candidate backed by Sheldon Adelson and the other a longstanding recipient of magisterial AIPAC donations, that prospect does not look good.
First, thanks for this editorial. This recent appointment needs to be condemned widely and loudly and your piece here is a start.
Second, the appointment is hardly surprising. It confirms that Netanyahu is an unprincipled political actor that does not deal with the world, including us, in good faith. His Israel has never had any interest in accommodation with the Palestinians and it does what it does, everyone else be damned.
One would like to hope that the next president would do what he or she could to distance us from them. But with one candidate backed by Sheldon Adelson and the other a longstanding recipient of magisterial AIPAC donations, that prospect does not look good.
4
Israel has Netanyahu, Russia has Putin (Netanyahu and Putin are allies with Israel selling Russia drone technology that was developed with US tax dollars that Russia has used in Ukraine and in Syria - that's the same Russia that is principal sponsor for Iran and for Assad - stunning), Turkey has Erdogan. The formula is the same: address very real issues, problems and enemies with hate and fear mongering, ultranationalism, paranoia, us vs. the world, attack neighbors, hatred and intimidation for own citizens that disagree or resist, internal political purges, maneuvers and spoils, and above all a cult of personality strongman who is the only one who can save the tribe. And if we are not careful, the U.S. will have the same formula in Trump.
2
Occupations always end badly.
5
Why is it "baffling"? It's as if the NYTs lives in its own bubble. The blind support for Israel in the US press and even among supposedly progressive American Jews is what has been baffling. This is a country that believes it has a god-given right to land they suspect their ancestors inhabited thousands of years ago, while people whose families have lived there for generations have no rights. More and more this strikes most 21st century people as racism and nationalism run amok. The baffling concept of "Israel right or wrong" has brought us to this point. Perhaps it is too late to turn back, and we are stuck funding and arming an increasingly extreme right-wing government. Not that we don't share much of the blame for creating it.
5
Netanyahu's past and present policies are not only inflexibly nationalistic, but they strengthen the Parchment Curtain drawn by the political theocracy across the littoral of the Eastern Mediterranean.
This is only baffling if one fails to notice that Israel has become an ultra nationalist security state, which is walled off from the Arabs who surround her by 700 kilometers of concrete walls and fencing. Gaza is fenced in as well by a deadly IDF maintained no man's land, and the people of Gaza are blockaded from the sea by the Israeli Navy.
The Likud has embraced the logic of Jabotinsky's Iron Wall Strategy, and the central premise of the Likud is land acquisition, with the transference of the other unwanted Semites called Arabs, who are considered inferior. No one wants to admit that the US has allowed Israel to become a thermonuclear weaponized actor in an area, which is of vital importance to US Interests. We have probably enabled a Frankenstein, which would have given Mary Shelley nightmares, since they have new German subs with pneumatic nuclear missile launch capabilities.
The two State solution has been dead for years, since nothing inhabited by Arabs is any longer contiguous, there can be no possibility of an Arab State. The villages are waterless bantustans, and Gaza is formally being starved by siege, and the failure to return services on taxes collected.
Israel has now no reason to care what the US thinks about these doings. The worst we can do is stop paying for their offense, and if they can get rid of Assad, the path will be clear to complete her own gas pipeline grid. Thus proving Jews know how to run an anschluss fur lebensraum a lot better than Germans.
The Likud has embraced the logic of Jabotinsky's Iron Wall Strategy, and the central premise of the Likud is land acquisition, with the transference of the other unwanted Semites called Arabs, who are considered inferior. No one wants to admit that the US has allowed Israel to become a thermonuclear weaponized actor in an area, which is of vital importance to US Interests. We have probably enabled a Frankenstein, which would have given Mary Shelley nightmares, since they have new German subs with pneumatic nuclear missile launch capabilities.
The two State solution has been dead for years, since nothing inhabited by Arabs is any longer contiguous, there can be no possibility of an Arab State. The villages are waterless bantustans, and Gaza is formally being starved by siege, and the failure to return services on taxes collected.
Israel has now no reason to care what the US thinks about these doings. The worst we can do is stop paying for their offense, and if they can get rid of Assad, the path will be clear to complete her own gas pipeline grid. Thus proving Jews know how to run an anschluss fur lebensraum a lot better than Germans.
3
It's time for the U.S. to stop the charade of a "two-state solution" through a peace process, and announce the recognition of a demilitarized State of Palestine. I'm an American of Jewish background who remembers when President Truman took the courageous, but unpopular, step in recognizing the State of Israel in 1948. As with Cuba, after over 50 years of failed policy, it's time for President Obama to take the equally courageous and controversial step a follow other European nations by recognizing a Palestinian state.
104
Well Gee a demilitarized state is the two state solution. It is terrorists that prevent this, they want more and think they can get it. Only convincing them that a worse deal will occur the longer you delay will work.
4
Paul, you advocate as if the Palestinians are a passive, pacifist group of people with no voice of their own. Until our Administration, and the EU, start expecting the Palestinian leadership to behave like grown ups, there cannot be a 2 state solution, or any solution. The burden of peace making is on both sides, including compromise. The Palestinians had 3 ample opportunities to make peace and compromises (not severe, either) in 2000, 2001, 2008 but refused to do so. Why? They believe they are entitled to the entire land on which the State of Israel exists. Recognizing a bogus Palestinian state will merely serve to extend the impasse, and make it bloodier.
7
Either both Israel and Palestine are demilitarized or they are not.
And America can not and should not act alone.
There are now 193 UN member states. When the UN created Israel there were 56 member nations who voted 33-for, 13-against and 10-abstentions. That was the era of European empires, the Soviet Union, Apartheid South Africa and Jim Crow America
America should propose, declare and recognize a one-state civil secular plural egalitarian democratic militarized of Israel Palestine in the United Nations General Assembly and the Security Council.
And America can not and should not act alone.
There are now 193 UN member states. When the UN created Israel there were 56 member nations who voted 33-for, 13-against and 10-abstentions. That was the era of European empires, the Soviet Union, Apartheid South Africa and Jim Crow America
America should propose, declare and recognize a one-state civil secular plural egalitarian democratic militarized of Israel Palestine in the United Nations General Assembly and the Security Council.
2
I is time to send a message to this fascist government. One less veto in the UN and a diversion of some of the aid we provide to the helping of our own downtrodden.
4
Mr. Netanyahu is under no obligation to please the US if he thinks his country's interests are better served otherwise. Whether that is the case is another story. I find the the phrase "badly suited to the Obama administration" paternalistic and that it detracts from the real issue addressed at the end "to forging peace in the Middle East" which is the real issue here.
Benjamin Netanyahu selected a defense minister badly suited to the Obama administration and to forging peace in the Middle East.
Benjamin Netanyahu selected a defense minister badly suited to the Obama administration and to forging peace in the Middle East.
2
Its seems that the issue of Israel is contentious for several major reasons, but one is Americans do not receive balanced coverage, and are ignorant of historical facts.
http://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2010/06/17/top-ten-myths-about-the-i...
While Palestinians have contributed significantly to the lack of peace, it remains the case that one side has the powerful military, originated in living memory from settlers from Europe [mostly], and it is this side which occupied the other and builds racial colonies on lands it wishes to have as a future state.
Netanyahu and Likud are ultra-nationalists, and party officials as racist as anything produced by Europe's xenophobic right.
The BDS movement is eminently reasonable, but bought and paid for US politicians fight this act of free expression, buying into the nonsense that it is 'anti-Semitic.'
Another major reason that Likud is able to get away with murder is the US press, probably mostly not deliberately, perpetually frames the conflict as one of Palestinian aggression and Israeli "defense."
but the reverse is more often true:
http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2014/07/08/who-started-the-cycle-of-v...
That is, the side that ethnically cleansed (see Ilan Pappe's work) and occupies the other is often the aggressor.
AIPAC and like groups have far, far too much power, Evangelicals too much influence.
In a saner world, Israel would be subjected to sanctions.
http://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2010/06/17/top-ten-myths-about-the-i...
While Palestinians have contributed significantly to the lack of peace, it remains the case that one side has the powerful military, originated in living memory from settlers from Europe [mostly], and it is this side which occupied the other and builds racial colonies on lands it wishes to have as a future state.
Netanyahu and Likud are ultra-nationalists, and party officials as racist as anything produced by Europe's xenophobic right.
The BDS movement is eminently reasonable, but bought and paid for US politicians fight this act of free expression, buying into the nonsense that it is 'anti-Semitic.'
Another major reason that Likud is able to get away with murder is the US press, probably mostly not deliberately, perpetually frames the conflict as one of Palestinian aggression and Israeli "defense."
but the reverse is more often true:
http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2014/07/08/who-started-the-cycle-of-v...
That is, the side that ethnically cleansed (see Ilan Pappe's work) and occupies the other is often the aggressor.
AIPAC and like groups have far, far too much power, Evangelicals too much influence.
In a saner world, Israel would be subjected to sanctions.
5
Support for the two state solution here has to be more than just words here if that is possible anymore. Given the pandering by both Clinton and Trump forget about any change in our relationship with Israel that will have any effect. But the lip-flapping of "two state solution" will keep many pacified and others shrugging their shoulders.
It really is up to Israeli's themselves. They have kept this government and suffered very little from the consequences. The US needs to hold off on that money package that pays for supporting the occupation and the settlements, contrary to what we are saying.
I don’t see either Hillary nor Donald (God help us) changing the situation either. Nor will the BDS movement be lacking support, nor will the violence end.
5-24-16 7:38 AM
It really is up to Israeli's themselves. They have kept this government and suffered very little from the consequences. The US needs to hold off on that money package that pays for supporting the occupation and the settlements, contrary to what we are saying.
I don’t see either Hillary nor Donald (God help us) changing the situation either. Nor will the BDS movement be lacking support, nor will the violence end.
5-24-16 7:38 AM
7
To state that the Two State solution is effective dead for now is generous. The concept of two States died long ago, it is now officially buried no matter who the next U.S. President is. The Israeli right will not relinquish one parcel of land that they deem to be their God given right to have and own. Netanyahu's appointment of Lieberman is merely stating the obvious. This is our land and we have no intentions of sharing it with those who we took it from."
2
"....final stages of negotiations." I don't get it. We are giving them free aid. We have given billions of dollars over the years and we have to negotiate the giving of aid. I would think the receiving country would be appreciative of the aid. Of course, there could be secret strings attacked to the aid. Now we wouldn't do that now would we?
5
Yet more of Israel's overall retreat from a once secular, democratic state, and gradual evolution to an unapologetically ideological and theocratic state. Their Right Wing isn't interested in good relations, just ideologically driven ones. Besides, they know they can always bully, demean, and demand special considerations and entitlements from the US, and we will always roll over and deliver for them, no matter who they put in leadership positions.
Yet more tail wagging dog: nothing new to see here.
Yet more tail wagging dog: nothing new to see here.
5
The population race for political control of the Levant is almost certain to end badly.
1
Lieberman and Trump have much in common. They are both loose cannons and both have no experience. Maybe we should elect Lieberman as President of the United States.
Continuing to lavish American taxpayer dollars on Israel, a frenemy at best to the US, is like sticking a pin in your eye daily. This taxpayer wants those dollars to work for us at home, repairing infrastructure, funding education, universal healthcare, research into green technologies, tackling climate change, etc. We need to pull back from intervention in the middle east.
6
I will vote for the person or party that promises to cut off military aid to all countries in the Middle East. I guess that means I'll be voting for a fringe peace party.
4
With nearly 7 billion people on the planet this tiny country
of 8 million does not merit or deserve the attention we
continue to give it. Think of how those resources could
be diverted to other nations or our own cities with more
open arms. Hatred is the way of the Mideast for centuries
and nothing we do will change it. Lets move on.
of 8 million does not merit or deserve the attention we
continue to give it. Think of how those resources could
be diverted to other nations or our own cities with more
open arms. Hatred is the way of the Mideast for centuries
and nothing we do will change it. Lets move on.
6
I cannot recall reading an editorial by the Times (or indeed, most other newspapers) decrying anything about the PA/PLO. It's almost as if they don't exist. Whatever Israel does is put under an electron microscope. As for the PA/PLO, it broadcasts TV shows showing maps of the area without Israel at all, and also in their schoolbooks, and names streets and plazas after murderers of Jews. It's "state" funded imams preach daily about how the Jews are trying to destroy Al Asqa. It's money is used to pay terrorists and their families, many $1000 per month, the more Jews they kill the more money they get. Oddly (ok, not really so odd), I read none of this in the pages of the Times. And yet, these facts are easily available. Even in today's story about Israel lifting the blockade of cement carrying trucks into Gaza, there was not mention #1 about Egypt which has totally blocked anything going into Gaza. It's really almost as if the Palestinians (and more broadly) Muslims are not even treated as humans by the western media, more like children or animals, entities not capable of moral choices. (Except when their stories make Israel look bad, of course.) So all the news rests on Israel and Israel alone.
14
Many Americans like to be entertained (see Trump) and to them long term is over the weekend. Unfortunately Israel does not have that luxury. They live in a world where 'existential threat' is a daily occurrence----not some abstraction.
Kissinger pointed out in his tome World Order, that the worlds power structure is being reworked. Nowhere is this more evident that in the Middle East where we have basically anointed Iran to be chief of police. Yes, it will take time, but they are the new cop on the beat and probably rightly so as historically that was their job. In response to this reality, Israel is taking a very hard line---as well they should. They can count on US aid and US support, but they alone must project power.
We can never forget that weakness invites aggression and while we may not like the form of Israeli strength, the rest of the Middle East gets it.
Kissinger pointed out in his tome World Order, that the worlds power structure is being reworked. Nowhere is this more evident that in the Middle East where we have basically anointed Iran to be chief of police. Yes, it will take time, but they are the new cop on the beat and probably rightly so as historically that was their job. In response to this reality, Israel is taking a very hard line---as well they should. They can count on US aid and US support, but they alone must project power.
We can never forget that weakness invites aggression and while we may not like the form of Israeli strength, the rest of the Middle East gets it.
6
It's well to talk about a two-state solution but pointless since the only supporters of the solution live outside the area in question. The sooner the US steps away from this mess and stops throwing money down a block hole, the better. Let's use the money at home.
1
Dennis Rose had said in AIPAC that Obama does not understand the Middle East. While the question one could ask is what took Dennis seven years, it appears that this Editorial is as detouched from reality as Obama's policies which have resulted in scorched earth, crumbling Middle East, hundreds of thousands dead, millions of refugees, and a shaking Europe. Indeed, the Green Prince - son of one of Hamas founders - said that Obama's refusal to admit that Islam (not Muslims) is the problem has created the ground on which terror grows. Notwithstanding Liberman's fit to serve as a defense minister in Israel - not my ideal choice - this Editorial is another example of the anti Israel policies of this paper, which has for years accused Israel for the failed peace process when facts, and President Clinton show the opposit. The rhetoric of hate, incitement, and Antisemitism spread by Immams and politicians in Ramallah, Gaza, and the entire Arab world, which can be found on thousands of videos in YouTube, the accusation of an Egyptian commentator the other day of Egyptian TV that Israel had used a missile to bring down Egyptair Airbus, and his call to murder every Israeli and mutilate the body, have never been the subject of an Editorial in this paper. The liberal left and this paper, by taking a very biased and anti Israeli approach, literally provide support to the continuous rejection of the only Jewish State, and in fact to terror.
8
Bennie has no intention of ever giving the Palestinians a home. He wants all of the occupied territories to be absorbed by Israel. If you had no noticed, that is exactly what is happening. Anticipate an accelerating pace as this strategy can no longer be denied and the USA is preoccupied with elections.
27
Thanks for speaking on Bernie's behalf, but when has he ever hinted at what your alleging?
1
The two state solution has always been a dead-end, for logistical purposes. Israel would never allow a foreign country to control its border with Jordan. The Palestinians spend Shekels. Almost all the water resources are from the Jordan River. Israel relies heavily on inexpensive Palestinian labor. Etc etc etc.
The fastest and most effective way for the Palestinians to get statehood would be to form a non-violent movement asking for Israeli citizenship. They could point to the 20% of Israeli citizens who are Arabs. It would be ethically extremely hard to argue against this. The Palestinians are indigenous, and they've not been absorbed as Israeli citizens long since past when they should have been,
Israel made the decision to hold and then colonize the West Bank and Gaza. They need to live with the consequences of that and make those territories formal parts of Israel, and give citizenship to the people who live in them.
The fastest and most effective way for the Palestinians to get statehood would be to form a non-violent movement asking for Israeli citizenship. They could point to the 20% of Israeli citizens who are Arabs. It would be ethically extremely hard to argue against this. The Palestinians are indigenous, and they've not been absorbed as Israeli citizens long since past when they should have been,
Israel made the decision to hold and then colonize the West Bank and Gaza. They need to live with the consequences of that and make those territories formal parts of Israel, and give citizenship to the people who live in them.
1
The simple fact is that the Palestinians could have had a state in peace, but chose war on MANY occasions- INSTEAD:
1937 with the Peel Plan, but they violently rejected it.
1939 with the MacDonald White Paper, but they violently rejected it (and Jews would have even been restricted from BUYING land from Arabs).
1948 with UN 181, but they violently rejected it (and actually claimed that the UN had no such mandate!).
From 1948-1967 without any Jews- because the Arabs had ethnically cleansed every last one; but they violently rejected it. In fact, that's exactly when they established Fatah (1959) and the PLO (1964).
After 1967, but instead, the entire Arab world issued the Khartoum Resolutions:
A. No peace with Israel
B. No recognition of Israel
C. No negotiations with Israel
In 2000 with the Oslo Accords, but they violently rejected it- as always.
And as soon as Israel pulled every single Israeli out of Gaza, what did they do? They shot thousands of missiles into Israeli population centers, they elected Hamas to rule them, and they have dug tunnels crossing into the Negev to kill and kidnap Israelis.
And even afterwards, Ehud Olmert made his subsequent generous offer that went far beyond even that of Barak. They rejected that too.
They had many chances.
They threw them all away because destroying Israel was higher on their priority list. It still is.
Oh well. That’s their choice.
1937 with the Peel Plan, but they violently rejected it.
1939 with the MacDonald White Paper, but they violently rejected it (and Jews would have even been restricted from BUYING land from Arabs).
1948 with UN 181, but they violently rejected it (and actually claimed that the UN had no such mandate!).
From 1948-1967 without any Jews- because the Arabs had ethnically cleansed every last one; but they violently rejected it. In fact, that's exactly when they established Fatah (1959) and the PLO (1964).
After 1967, but instead, the entire Arab world issued the Khartoum Resolutions:
A. No peace with Israel
B. No recognition of Israel
C. No negotiations with Israel
In 2000 with the Oslo Accords, but they violently rejected it- as always.
And as soon as Israel pulled every single Israeli out of Gaza, what did they do? They shot thousands of missiles into Israeli population centers, they elected Hamas to rule them, and they have dug tunnels crossing into the Negev to kill and kidnap Israelis.
And even afterwards, Ehud Olmert made his subsequent generous offer that went far beyond even that of Barak. They rejected that too.
They had many chances.
They threw them all away because destroying Israel was higher on their priority list. It still is.
Oh well. That’s their choice.
5
There is nothing baffling about this situation. Hard right Likud ideologue Netanyahu has stuck his thumb in our eye............again.
I'm not at all sure that the IDF will go along with this general thrust and may arrange to have the current government toppled. Not by coup but just by removing their support.
Regardless. This whole series of actions demands a complete rethinking of our relationship with Israel. Likud and fellow travelers have overtly turned expansionist and raciest. These are actions that Americans can never support or pay for.
I'm not at all sure that the IDF will go along with this general thrust and may arrange to have the current government toppled. Not by coup but just by removing their support.
Regardless. This whole series of actions demands a complete rethinking of our relationship with Israel. Likud and fellow travelers have overtly turned expansionist and raciest. These are actions that Americans can never support or pay for.
73
Except Republicans have been allowed to get away with this crap here in the United States...
You blleding hearts make me sick. Obama goes to Britain and interferes in their vote on Brexit. Bibi comes over and says the Iran deal stinks , which by the way it does.
If you ever get what you seem to want you're going to find the Arabs a lot harder to live with than the Israelis.
If you ever get what you seem to want you're going to find the Arabs a lot harder to live with than the Israelis.
6
Israel is quite able to determine which course it wishes to follow, even 'tho I may believe that it is a suicidal one. Moves such as Mr. Netanyahu's decision to offer the Minister of Defense post to Mr. Lieberman is of course self-centered in desperately trying to maintain his job as Prime Minister. But if the Israeli people condone it, so be it.
However I am very tied of having my tax dollars so lavishly spent to support this increasingly apartheid country! Israel has been by far the largest recipient of US foreign aid since the end of WW II. We send it approximately $500 for every man, woman & child living there EVERY YEAR! And now there is talk in Washington to increasing this dole to $40 billion over the next 10 years.
Enough! Let's use these hard earned dollars to prop up our own crumbling infrastructure. Let's repair those bridges, fix those highways & yes, let's see if we might build a few high speed trains.
However I am very tied of having my tax dollars so lavishly spent to support this increasingly apartheid country! Israel has been by far the largest recipient of US foreign aid since the end of WW II. We send it approximately $500 for every man, woman & child living there EVERY YEAR! And now there is talk in Washington to increasing this dole to $40 billion over the next 10 years.
Enough! Let's use these hard earned dollars to prop up our own crumbling infrastructure. Let's repair those bridges, fix those highways & yes, let's see if we might build a few high speed trains.
130
20% of the population are of the same ethnicity/religious belief and have full citizenship/voting rights while those on the other side of the armistice line in disputed territory do not and you call it apartheid? Red herring.
As for the aid Israel gets, most of it is earmarked to be spent in the US on defense, propping up that industry plus the free R & D the US gets from battle tested equipment and new technologies that keep up safe here. We are getting value for our dollar. Contrast that with what we give Egypt that goes into a black hole to a populace that has no love for us and produces zilch of value.
I always enjoy allegedly well though out arguments. You may have issues with Israel's administration of the lands in dispute, which is fine, but the rest of what you wrote is inaccurate at best and and worst, disingenuous.
As for the aid Israel gets, most of it is earmarked to be spent in the US on defense, propping up that industry plus the free R & D the US gets from battle tested equipment and new technologies that keep up safe here. We are getting value for our dollar. Contrast that with what we give Egypt that goes into a black hole to a populace that has no love for us and produces zilch of value.
I always enjoy allegedly well though out arguments. You may have issues with Israel's administration of the lands in dispute, which is fine, but the rest of what you wrote is inaccurate at best and and worst, disingenuous.
6
Thank you - that money can be spent to help improve our own country and citizens' lives.
2
The whole world benefits from Israel’s advances in science, medicine & technology, but we Americans also benefit from our access to intelligence from MOSAD which is considered one of the world’s best intelligence agencies & from being able to pre-position military supplies in Israel in case we want to intervene in the Middle East & from Israeli expertise in developing weapons systems. Also, Israel is a laboratory & the Israelis are guinea pigs in learning how a democratic society can deal with terrorism. Israel is on the front line battling terrorism. The terrorists say “First the Saturday people (Jews) then the Sunday people (Christians.) Israel is the barrier island protecting the West.
2
This is why I no longer support Israel. To be clear, I don't think the PA is any better, but we are not their allies and we do not give weapons to them. We should treat the Israelis in the same manner.
Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind.
Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind.
56
I'm proud of my country, the USA, for helping countries like Israel that are the victim of aggression.
4
Well, Hillary Clinton has already pledged unwavering support to Israel in all matters, whatever the circumstances, so this shouldn't be a problem right?
21
Israel is right to choose cabinet members that reflect their internal needs and regional problems and ignore Obama who certainly is no friend. Americans are not the only ones who will be glad to see the end of Obama!
12
A few years from now you'll wish you hadn't written this comment, Bill (NC).
2
Israel is a sovereign country and certainly may do as it wishes, with regards to selecting cabinet members, etc. They are also free to stop taking the billions of dollars in military aid that we keep sending them. If Bibi insists on thumbing his nose at the US (or at least at anyone who isn't willing to fall to their knees in obeisance, as the entire GOP does) then perhaps he feels that his country no longer needs our support.
The Times editorial board says this choice of a foreign minister is an obstacle to Israel's making peace with the Palestinians. Please the name the Palestinian entities that want to make peace with Israel.
28
It simply doesn’t matter what name the Palestinian entity might have as Israel is not and never has been interested in making peace with the Palestinians. As Netanyahu said recently they can live by the sword forever.
One of the problems with that of course is that we all have to suffer the consequences.
One of the problems with that of course is that we all have to suffer the consequences.
2
The PA.
1
The Palestinian Authority.
However it is a favorite Israeli trick to offer terrible terms then claim the other side doesn't want peace when they reject it.
And Israel can count on a biased media and an army of online trolls to make every aggressive action...
http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2014/07/08/who-started-the-cycle-of-v...
"defense."
However it is a favorite Israeli trick to offer terrible terms then claim the other side doesn't want peace when they reject it.
And Israel can count on a biased media and an army of online trolls to make every aggressive action...
http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2014/07/08/who-started-the-cycle-of-v...
"defense."
Perhaps in a future edition the Times can publish an analysis on how negotiating a new defense agreement will serve the interest of the United States. In an era of constrained Federal spending it is important for Americans to understand exactly the benefit to be derived from spending billions for military assistance to Israel and for that matter Egypt et. al.
43
umm, it supports the defense industry?
1
Billions of what is 'given' to Israel MUST be spent on defense in the United States so the money, while available to Israel, basically goes to Raytheon, Boeing, McDonnell Douglass and the like, keeping people working, earning livelihood and propping up the industry and a whole. Its basically a big ol subsidy for the US defense industry. In return, the US also has tech share agreements that bring new discoveries back here to be integrated in the the various US military's, keeping our boys and girls safe(r)
Im always amazed at how ill informed much of the' lets cut off aid to Israel' crowd are. If you dont agree with the structure of the aid, fine, but we get a LOT back for it. Contrast that with the rest the US doles out that goes into a hole and returned nothing.
Im always amazed at how ill informed much of the' lets cut off aid to Israel' crowd are. If you dont agree with the structure of the aid, fine, but we get a LOT back for it. Contrast that with the rest the US doles out that goes into a hole and returned nothing.
3
Well ask the banks and the corporations what their plans are for Israel, it looks like that's who will be our next president, their minion.
7
Why should we give any money to the Israelis????????
59
Because the Israelis are monitoring the Middle East for America.
3
We have career politicians in the U.S. who make decisions all the time that are in their own best interests to retain their office but are not in the best interests of our nation.
16
'Badly suited ? Like empowering a new nuclear Persian empire I guess...
Ayatollahs need a spanking ,big time
Ayatollahs need a spanking ,big time
11
there is still ZERO evidence Iran is working on a nuke, despite 20 years of Netanyahu crying wolf re same - all while building more of his own and refusing inspections.
But hey - dem muslims are all irrational and eeevil, not like the Jews, right?
But hey - dem muslims are all irrational and eeevil, not like the Jews, right?
1
Buoyed by the lightning victories in Iraq and Afghanistan, the right is aching for yet another war.
1
Nothing baffling here: The Arabs here have chosen eternal war. Our choice is now who will lead us against it. It's really quite simple.
24
That is an absurd, simplistic, and I think at heart, racist revisionism.
One side ethnically cleansed the other.
One side occupies and oppresses the other.
One side can initiate violence...
http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2014/07/08/who-started-the-cycle-of-v...
And count on a biased media to slant the bombing of hospitals and schools and ambulances and power stations and UN posts as"defending itself."
One side ethnically cleansed the other.
One side occupies and oppresses the other.
One side can initiate violence...
http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2014/07/08/who-started-the-cycle-of-v...
And count on a biased media to slant the bombing of hospitals and schools and ambulances and power stations and UN posts as"defending itself."
2
What's simple is Likud and Shas are racist parties that don't want peace, they want all of Palestine - free of the people who were living there back when Bibi's ancestors were in Poland.
2
However hard you try you cannot defend the indefensible. The Palestinians have to be offered a peace agreement which doesn't benefit Israel. After Oslo, the West Bank has become Bantustans.
1
Bibi has turned more people Anti-Israel, NOT Anti-Semitic, than any human alice. This is like any President appointing Carl Paladino as Sec. of Defense.
25
The United States is the worst enabler there is.
Stop giving Israel $3 billion a year in aid; it is a developed country and it does not need the money.
Stop giving Israel the money, and watch how quickly Netanyahu starts talking about Israel being China or India's "greatest ally."
Feh.
Stop giving Israel $3 billion a year in aid; it is a developed country and it does not need the money.
Stop giving Israel the money, and watch how quickly Netanyahu starts talking about Israel being China or India's "greatest ally."
Feh.
67
@scrim1 you should thank your Republican led House for this continued kissing game.
Mr. netanyahu has done everything he could to interfere in US politics and insult the President of the US and therefore the voters, so it's time to send the israeli people a message.
We need to cut every dime of funding to this ungrateful, arrogant crowd!
As long as the jewish lobby, AIPAC, can threaten every politician in the US with the power of their money, nothing is going to happen but it's long past time for US taxpayers to teach the israelis a lesson!
Stop funding israel now!
We need to cut every dime of funding to this ungrateful, arrogant crowd!
As long as the jewish lobby, AIPAC, can threaten every politician in the US with the power of their money, nothing is going to happen but it's long past time for US taxpayers to teach the israelis a lesson!
Stop funding israel now!
86
Combine this article with the one from the weekend in which the Israeli defense establishment is described as the calming presence compared to Netanhayu's recklessness.
As long as Americans see Netanyahu's positions as Israel's we will continue to support him and he will continue to do whatever he wants. That's not the case, though. The Israeli public appears split on Netanhayuism.
We need to reduce our support until he is gone or acts like an adult. I support Israel's right to exist and defend itself, but they are supported to a great extent by the US. Israel needs to understand that there is no entitlement to our support and we cannot be expected to sign a blank check for governments that refuse to stop settlements or make any real effort at peace.
As long as Americans see Netanyahu's positions as Israel's we will continue to support him and he will continue to do whatever he wants. That's not the case, though. The Israeli public appears split on Netanhayuism.
We need to reduce our support until he is gone or acts like an adult. I support Israel's right to exist and defend itself, but they are supported to a great extent by the US. Israel needs to understand that there is no entitlement to our support and we cannot be expected to sign a blank check for governments that refuse to stop settlements or make any real effort at peace.
196
Israel has the right to defend itself with it's blood and treasure. Not America's. And those who support Israel should put their blood and treasure at risk.
American blood and treasure should be spent defending and supporting America and Americans.
America does not need nor deserve an "ally" like Israel.
American blood and treasure should be spent defending and supporting America and Americans.
America does not need nor deserve an "ally" like Israel.
1
Avigdor Lieberman is and always has been a Russian mafia thug. Organized Crime is about to take over the IDF. It is kind of like Paul von Hindenburg appointing Adolf Hitler chancellor, though he detested him. The difference is that Hindenburg had no real choice, but Netanyahu does, and has chosen power over his nation's security and possible survival.
Like banks that keep making bad loans knowing the US government will guarantee them, so Israel, under Netanyahu, pushes harder and harder on its neighbors, driving toward a war it cannot win, counting on US dollars and troops' lives to bail them out.
What Netanyahu doesn't realize is that more and more Americans are unwilling to commit our nation and children to an overtly aggressive and increasingly fascist regime, but Bibi hasn't figured this out. I hope the Israeli people do soon.
Like banks that keep making bad loans knowing the US government will guarantee them, so Israel, under Netanyahu, pushes harder and harder on its neighbors, driving toward a war it cannot win, counting on US dollars and troops' lives to bail them out.
What Netanyahu doesn't realize is that more and more Americans are unwilling to commit our nation and children to an overtly aggressive and increasingly fascist regime, but Bibi hasn't figured this out. I hope the Israeli people do soon.
43
I agree with everything you say except for the part about them fighting "a war it cannot win." They can win any war against any and all Muslim states as they proved in 1967 and 1973. This fact, for the US, is actually a good thing. Good because we can abandon them without having to worry about
Putting Lieberman in charge of Israel's nuclear weapons makes as much sense as putting Trump in charge of America's nuclear weapons. And just as suicidal.
49
The Times did not print the statement made by Yaalom when he resigned recently as defense minister:
"Extremists and dangerous elements have taken over" Israel and the Likud party. "i found myself" Yaalom said "in strong disagreement on moral and professional issues" with Netanyahu.
That 'extremists have taken over' Israel seems to me such an important statement by a resigning cabinet member, would seem to be frontpage headline material.
"Extremists and dangerous elements have taken over" Israel and the Likud party. "i found myself" Yaalom said "in strong disagreement on moral and professional issues" with Netanyahu.
That 'extremists have taken over' Israel seems to me such an important statement by a resigning cabinet member, would seem to be frontpage headline material.
49
Because ultimately the times backs Israel and never wants to make Israel look bad. They might criticize individual Israelis, but they don't want any chance Americans will start to see the county as a whole for what it is- a racist state bent on driving out as many indigenous Palestinians as possible.
Not baffling at all once you recognize that Netanyahu does not see Israeli interests as aligned with US interests; when you recognize that for a long time now Israel policy has been a slow ethnic cleansing of the territories, through settlements, etc. This is disclosed over and over again, but somehow we pretend to be surprised each time something like this happens.
31
You're right. It's not complicated. Yizhak Shamir said it long time ago when he was Prime Minister that Israel would be building "facts on the ground". Israel has had this policy even during the terms of the "liberals" like Mr.s Olmert, Barak and Rabin. The liberals have been willing negotiate a two state solution that would give back some of the land but even THEY continued Israel's settlement policy.
Obama has only himself to blame for the appointment of Lieberman. His policy of of unconditional "love" for Israel means that Netanjahu's left side is covered and he can indulge in right extremist policies without risk.
Obama overestimates America's support for Israel. Faced with a conflict between the US government and the Israeli government Americans will choose en masse for their own government - even when they didn't vote for it. Previous presidents understood that and supported UN resolutions that Israel didn't like and even cut US financial and militay aid. That gave them space to choose policies. Obama, on the other hand, has, by never raising his criticism of Israel above polite academic discourse, de facto approved all of Netanjahu's policies. The consequence is that it has become almost impossible in the US to criticize Israel.
Obama overestimates America's support for Israel. Faced with a conflict between the US government and the Israeli government Americans will choose en masse for their own government - even when they didn't vote for it. Previous presidents understood that and supported UN resolutions that Israel didn't like and even cut US financial and militay aid. That gave them space to choose policies. Obama, on the other hand, has, by never raising his criticism of Israel above polite academic discourse, de facto approved all of Netanjahu's policies. The consequence is that it has become almost impossible in the US to criticize Israel.
16
Nothing baffling here. American pudding headed tendency to hem & haw and cajole is worthless vs a country that work us from inside our own Congress. They'll simply design and follow through on a Greater Israel under our noses knowing full well we'd never in a thousand years actually DO anything about it.
Put US Marines in the West Bank, under the very reasonable premise of security for Israel. Then usher the illegal settlers out and command a two state solution. Enforce the peace, take a lesson from Israel; stop begging.
Put US Marines in the West Bank, under the very reasonable premise of security for Israel. Then usher the illegal settlers out and command a two state solution. Enforce the peace, take a lesson from Israel; stop begging.
16
"usher the illegal settlers out"
is ethnic cleansing.
It's wrong & it's not necessary.
When the permanent boundaries are drawn, those settlements on the Palestinian side of the boundary will become part of Palestine.
is ethnic cleansing.
It's wrong & it's not necessary.
When the permanent boundaries are drawn, those settlements on the Palestinian side of the boundary will become part of Palestine.
3
Israel's Trump proving, once again, that NOTHING is more important than their own election/nomination/re-election. Crass politicians whose interests and policies are to serve themselves, their jobs, and their own self-interests and to-hell with anything else.
6
New York Times always details what Israel must do to obtain peace, never what Palestinians must do to the same goal. Palestinians are treated as an spoiled boy who cannot accept any solution. There are two logical things they can do: 1.-Ending Terrorism and 2.-Accept to talk with Israel
16
Israel is the military power that occupies and colonizes the other and routinely engages in state terrorism.
end the Occupation.
end the Occupation.
1
It's not often I see a comment that makes so much sense on the NYT editorial page. Bravo!
It's true that anyone like Liebeman, who wants to protect Israelis from Islamist terror, will be "effectively unwelcome in Washington" as the NYT put it. But that will be true only so long as "America is too strong" Obama is in office. Even Hillary will be better than Obama when it comes to protecting our allies and punishing our enemies. Ya'alon's problem not only that he was in the way of broadening the Netanyahu government, but he had recently made serious political errors: backing a general who had made political comments and pre-judging in the press a criminal case against a soldier. [Both the general and Ya'alon arguably may be right on the substance, but that is not the issue. Military men are not supposed to take political positions and politicians are not supposed to pre-judge cases. The fact that Obama likes to pre-judge criminal cases in the press is not a defense.]
And I would point out that this sudden affection for Ya'alon is in contrast to the venomous dislike of him that has permeated the Left for many years -- mainly because Ya'alon has been instrumental in defending Israel from terrorists and genocidaires. The Left suddenly likes Ya'alon only because he has gotten into a fight with Netanyahu. The Left is all about weakening Israel and weakening America.
And I would point out that this sudden affection for Ya'alon is in contrast to the venomous dislike of him that has permeated the Left for many years -- mainly because Ya'alon has been instrumental in defending Israel from terrorists and genocidaires. The Left suddenly likes Ya'alon only because he has gotten into a fight with Netanyahu. The Left is all about weakening Israel and weakening America.
6
To call the voice of Avigdor Lieberman baffling, when in fact the Times knows that it is exactly what this choice means, and it means that it is a disgraceful choice, shows that the Times is not able to call it like it is when it comes to Israel.
It is clear that Netanyahu places his own and Israel's strength and well being above justice, just as the Times has said here, and there is nothing baffling about it, it is just how and what Israel is at this point.
This is not what we need in any ally.
It is clear that Netanyahu places his own and Israel's strength and well being above justice, just as the Times has said here, and there is nothing baffling about it, it is just how and what Israel is at this point.
This is not what we need in any ally.
11
General Yaalon has been vilified by the NYT throughout his political career and now that he resigns, magic, he is a saint that will be missed. How hypocritical and typical of the NYT when it comes to anything regarding the Israeli political scene and especially the Netanyahu government.
Have you no shame?
Have you no shame?
15
The Jew would reflect and think about it, the Isreali can't and will not listen.
Against Arabic as a national language? My god! That's almost as far right as the thirty six US states mandating English as a national language, most in the last three decades! Outrage!
Supporting the death penalty for terrorists? Sacre bleu! That's almost as far right as thirty two US states and the Federal government! My god, that's almost as far right as seeking the death penalty for Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, and never mind the detention without trial! That's almost as far right as assassinating Osama Bin Laden! Where was his trial? Outrage! Sanctimony and outrage!
And TRUMP?
That's almost as far right as fully half of a nation of 300 million openly voting for the Republicans every four years! Israel is a nation of 8 million. The Arab Joint List is the third largest parliamentary entity and even Netanyahu, let alone Lieberman, can't even secure a majority on his own.
Ah, but not in NYC, you protest. But NYC is no more a self-governing country than is Tel Aviv. It's a single liberal cog in a larger political ecosystem. And all it took was one terrorist attack for Bush to be re-elected in a land-slide.
Lieberman a threat to world peace? Israel's a besieged democracy that has managed its liberalism at the vanguard of terrorism for forty years more humanely than any other western country in like circumstances. Of course, the NYT doesn't even bother reporting terrorist knifings unless an American's involved.
Shame on you. Shame on you. Shame on you. Disgusting. Shame. Shame.
Supporting the death penalty for terrorists? Sacre bleu! That's almost as far right as thirty two US states and the Federal government! My god, that's almost as far right as seeking the death penalty for Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, and never mind the detention without trial! That's almost as far right as assassinating Osama Bin Laden! Where was his trial? Outrage! Sanctimony and outrage!
And TRUMP?
That's almost as far right as fully half of a nation of 300 million openly voting for the Republicans every four years! Israel is a nation of 8 million. The Arab Joint List is the third largest parliamentary entity and even Netanyahu, let alone Lieberman, can't even secure a majority on his own.
Ah, but not in NYC, you protest. But NYC is no more a self-governing country than is Tel Aviv. It's a single liberal cog in a larger political ecosystem. And all it took was one terrorist attack for Bush to be re-elected in a land-slide.
Lieberman a threat to world peace? Israel's a besieged democracy that has managed its liberalism at the vanguard of terrorism for forty years more humanely than any other western country in like circumstances. Of course, the NYT doesn't even bother reporting terrorist knifings unless an American's involved.
Shame on you. Shame on you. Shame on you. Disgusting. Shame. Shame.
10
Bush was not re-elected in a landslide. His re-election margin was the closest in history for a two-term President.
1
We now know that Ben Rhodes, President Obama's Deputy National Security Advisor, told us a "story" to "actively mislead" the public into supporting the Iran nuclear deal. So that in the not too distant future the likelihood of Iran covertly following North Korea, who had a similar deal with the Clinton Administration, into the world of nuclear armed nations remains about as likely as it was before the deal was made.
Not to mention the fact that Iran, which has never renounced either support for terrorism, or development of ballistic missile technology, now has billions of dollars it didn't have last spring.
We also know the Obama Administration will be gone in eight months.
And that the likelihood is overwhelming that Hamas, whose major political leader, Khaled Mashal, has openly stated that Israel's continuing existence is unacceptable to the future of any Palestinian State, will remain in power in Gaza, and wielding influence in the West Bank, after January.
In the light of those facts, Israel's desire to remain a living member of the family of nations will require any number of hard-line choices. And if not now, when? And if not beginning with it's Defense Ministry, where?
And speaking of risky and cynical, what could be more baffling than the Times' editorial point of view in support of the exchange of strategic strength for empty promises, and pieces of paper?
Not to mention the fact that Iran, which has never renounced either support for terrorism, or development of ballistic missile technology, now has billions of dollars it didn't have last spring.
We also know the Obama Administration will be gone in eight months.
And that the likelihood is overwhelming that Hamas, whose major political leader, Khaled Mashal, has openly stated that Israel's continuing existence is unacceptable to the future of any Palestinian State, will remain in power in Gaza, and wielding influence in the West Bank, after January.
In the light of those facts, Israel's desire to remain a living member of the family of nations will require any number of hard-line choices. And if not now, when? And if not beginning with it's Defense Ministry, where?
And speaking of risky and cynical, what could be more baffling than the Times' editorial point of view in support of the exchange of strategic strength for empty promises, and pieces of paper?
16
Iran doesn't have nukes and allows inspections.
Israel has hundreds of nukes and refuses inspections.
Mr. Netanyahu has claimed Iran was 'months away' for over 20 years:
https://theintercept.com/2015/03/02/brief-history-netanyahu-crying-wolf-...
All while building more of his own, and bulldozing Palestinian homes and building Jewish-only settlements in defiance of UN resolutions and the Geneva Conventions.
But sure, Israel can do no wrong...it is always the victim, right?
Israel has hundreds of nukes and refuses inspections.
Mr. Netanyahu has claimed Iran was 'months away' for over 20 years:
https://theintercept.com/2015/03/02/brief-history-netanyahu-crying-wolf-...
All while building more of his own, and bulldozing Palestinian homes and building Jewish-only settlements in defiance of UN resolutions and the Geneva Conventions.
But sure, Israel can do no wrong...it is always the victim, right?
I don't see what's "baffling" about it.
Israel is betting Trump or Hillary will be the next President. And both fall all over themselves to show how much they support Israel.
This appointment would not have been made if it looked like Sanders was going to be the next president.
Though Jewish himself and supportive of a sane Israel, he is the only candidate who would be able to stand up to Israel and say enough is enough.
Israel is betting Trump or Hillary will be the next President. And both fall all over themselves to show how much they support Israel.
This appointment would not have been made if it looked like Sanders was going to be the next president.
Though Jewish himself and supportive of a sane Israel, he is the only candidate who would be able to stand up to Israel and say enough is enough.
23
I really don't think it's "baffling" at all: Bibi Netenyahu and his Likud Party have absolutely no interest whatsoever in peace with the Palestinians. Their goal is the complete Israeli takeover of the West Bank and possibly Gaza (which they refer to as "Judea and Samaria"), and Mr Lieberman in particular has been pushing the idea for a long time that the only good Palestinian is a dead Palestinian. And it's not like it's hidden: Mr Netenyahu and Mr Lieberman have both made public statements to this effect, the takeover of the West Bank and Gaza is in the Likud Party charter, and of course settlements in the West Bank have been going on (in violation of the Geneva Conventions, policies designed to end war for Lebensraum) for decades.
Why the New York Times persists in pushing the idea that Israel only wants peace, when they've made it abundantly clear that they don't want peace, they want more land?
Why the New York Times persists in pushing the idea that Israel only wants peace, when they've made it abundantly clear that they don't want peace, they want more land?
107
Doesn't seem baffling at all to me. It's of a piece with Netanyahu's ability to thumb his nose while sticking a finger in your eye simultaneously.
I find them both revolting. Birds of a feather...
I find them both revolting. Birds of a feather...
106
"The next American president is not likely to abandon support for a two-state solution". The Editorial Board cannot possibly know or even guess what Trump might support.
14
Even if Trump becomes president, no one will know what he might support because he will change his mind every other week, depending on what people want to hear.
1
You assume too much. And you know what happens when you assume?
The NYT Editorial Board disaproves of Mr. Lieberman? That's good enough for me. He's my man!
Seriously, what gives the NYT the right to attempt to dictate who Israel, a totally separate country, should appoint to cabinet level positions? The NYT goes nuts if it perceives Netanyahu or other Israeli officials as interfering in any fashion with US government or politics. It went nuts over Netanyahu coming to the US to plead with it to not support a bad deal with Iran, a deal which has been shown to have been promoted under false pretenses by the Obama administration.
Love how this editorial paints Liberman as a fanatical zealot; he lives in the West Bank! OMG! I give Mr Liberman credit for sticking up to Israel and not pandering to the leftists. If the NYT doesn't approve of that, so what.
Seriously, what gives the NYT the right to attempt to dictate who Israel, a totally separate country, should appoint to cabinet level positions? The NYT goes nuts if it perceives Netanyahu or other Israeli officials as interfering in any fashion with US government or politics. It went nuts over Netanyahu coming to the US to plead with it to not support a bad deal with Iran, a deal which has been shown to have been promoted under false pretenses by the Obama administration.
Love how this editorial paints Liberman as a fanatical zealot; he lives in the West Bank! OMG! I give Mr Liberman credit for sticking up to Israel and not pandering to the leftists. If the NYT doesn't approve of that, so what.
25
When the NYT moves its headquarters and all its staff to the Hamas rocket target zone in Israel, then perhaps its editorial board can weigh in on who the Israeli Defense Minister is.
8
@greenie, i agree, Israel is a sovereign nation. And we should not give them one penny. No 10 year agreement. No guarantee lump sums to pay down their debt and be the 7th largest weapons producer. how's that? No money. You are on your own. You give us nothing in return. Until then, we can have an opinion. I say we stop giving money and keep our opinions to ourselves. How's that?
8
Its not about where he lives, its about what he whats to do with what we would call neighbors.
Loud mouth tough, is really just being a loud coward.
fwa
Loud mouth tough, is really just being a loud coward.
fwa
Why is this a baffling choice? Israel's position has always been to have a pretend 'peace process' to keep the West off its' back as much as possible, while carrying on creating 'facts on the ground' in the West Bank etc.
Lieberman is the perfect surreal 'defence' minister for a process of evasion, denial and victim-blaming that has been going on for some decades now. Having said which, if I were a citizen of Gaza I would be getting really pretty worried right now...
Lieberman is the perfect surreal 'defence' minister for a process of evasion, denial and victim-blaming that has been going on for some decades now. Having said which, if I were a citizen of Gaza I would be getting really pretty worried right now...
100
From your (digital) front page "Benjamin Netanyahu selected a defense minister badly suited to the Obama administration..."
Well, I'm not aware of any officials the Obama administration has selected well-suited for Mr. Netanyahu's purposes, are you?
And I doubt Mr. Obama has lain awake at night anguishing over whether or not Mr. Netanyahu likes much of anything. He has, however, in his waking hours, enjoyed quite a bit of mirth & malice at his expense, hasn't he?
Well, I'm not aware of any officials the Obama administration has selected well-suited for Mr. Netanyahu's purposes, are you?
And I doubt Mr. Obama has lain awake at night anguishing over whether or not Mr. Netanyahu likes much of anything. He has, however, in his waking hours, enjoyed quite a bit of mirth & malice at his expense, hasn't he?
13
I guess the difference is that Netanhayu is taking our money and not the other way around.
5
Imagine a man who has watched, over decades, every attempt at rational dialogue founder, not at an unwillingness by Israel to dialogue meaningfully with Palestinians, but at the inability of Palestinians to get their act together sufficiently as a people to make such dialogue meaningful. Imagine a man who perceives the interests of his people to include a biblical sovereignty over all the land between the Med and the Jordan River, but must vie to protect those interests with suicide bombers, missile purveyors and tunellers who would send their children to murder in the dark, then apotheosize those children who inevitably die in the attempts. Imagine a man who may feel just a bit beset by a world grown all of a sudden politically correct and insistent on applying a double-standard that demonizes him but accepts the Opera buffa of Palestinian governance.
Imagine Benjamin Netanyahu, pretty tired of playing a game that seemingly can never be won but insistent on protecting what he sees as his nation’s and his people’s interests. I imagine that man and am not at all surprised at his selection of Avigdor Lieberman as Israeli minister of defense.
That selection may be as much a desire for a seismic corrective action, a game-changer, as the Republicans’ presumptive nomination of Donald Trump.
Imagine Benjamin Netanyahu, pretty tired of playing a game that seemingly can never be won but insistent on protecting what he sees as his nation’s and his people’s interests. I imagine that man and am not at all surprised at his selection of Avigdor Lieberman as Israeli minister of defense.
That selection may be as much a desire for a seismic corrective action, a game-changer, as the Republicans’ presumptive nomination of Donald Trump.
14
"watched...every attempt at rational dialogue 'flounder'"
I spent months in Middle East during the late 1970s, just after a peace accord was signed with Egypt. Peace was and still is possible, but the half-wit history revisionists seem to relish in nationalistic zealotry.
fwa
I spent months in Middle East during the late 1970s, just after a peace accord was signed with Egypt. Peace was and still is possible, but the half-wit history revisionists seem to relish in nationalistic zealotry.
fwa
"Rational?"
"Dialogue?"
Orwellian vocabulary for unrelenting militarism and indiscriminate collective punishment for resistance to illegal occupation and apartheid.
If I believed in such a thing, I'd hope you come back in the next life as a Palestinian.
"Dialogue?"
Orwellian vocabulary for unrelenting militarism and indiscriminate collective punishment for resistance to illegal occupation and apartheid.
If I believed in such a thing, I'd hope you come back in the next life as a Palestinian.
Much of what you say is true. However, I have also watched the false peace process for decades and in turn watched missed opportunity after missed opportunity by Netanyahu to restore peace in Israel. It saddens me to watch Israel employ Nazi tactics, collective punishment against the Palestinians, engage in acts of genocide by denying that Palestine ever existed and see the "promised land" morph into an apartheid State.
Netanyahu's stupidity to re-appoint Lieberman is apparently larger than his ego, and that is hard to beat. The sole purpose of his appointment is to maintain his power. However, neither is larger than his gall to attempt to run the United States. Just because he was educated here, doesn't override the citizens of the US, and many of us substantially disagree with his policies. It's time for him to go for the good of Israel and the rest of world. There must be a two state solution and his continued encroachment of Israelis into Palestinian territory must end and be hog-tied.
189
No "attempt to run "anything . Netanyahu came to US congress at Boehners invite to defend his country from a sure disaster labeled Iran nuclear deal.
Go to Center for strategic studies website and see the parade of generals etc saying the looming Armageddon is a direct result,as Iran (Persia) gets bolder,stronger etc
Go to Center for strategic studies website and see the parade of generals etc saying the looming Armageddon is a direct result,as Iran (Persia) gets bolder,stronger etc
5
What absolute nonsense. Israel has access to well over one hundred armed , nuclear warheads and several hydrogen bombs. Netanyahu could eradicate Iran with a phone call.
Iran has no nuclear warheads or hydrogen bombs. Tough talk is one thing. In Iran's case it is all bark and no bite. Netanyahu is a craven fraud. All he wants is concensus to after Iran.
On that score, it would seem that the entire planet is on board with the multi-national agreement between six major world powers and Iran.
The only significant dissent comes from Israel and the republican Congress people who have no use for either their President or their country. These folks ought pay attention to whose signature adorns their paychecks as well as their obligation to serve their country and do their jobs to the very best of their ability.
Instead , a republican led Congress has done nothing for six long years while this country has stagnated. Now , the GOP wishes to be rewarded with the White House in trade for this treachery.
Iran has no nuclear warheads or hydrogen bombs. Tough talk is one thing. In Iran's case it is all bark and no bite. Netanyahu is a craven fraud. All he wants is concensus to after Iran.
On that score, it would seem that the entire planet is on board with the multi-national agreement between six major world powers and Iran.
The only significant dissent comes from Israel and the republican Congress people who have no use for either their President or their country. These folks ought pay attention to whose signature adorns their paychecks as well as their obligation to serve their country and do their jobs to the very best of their ability.
Instead , a republican led Congress has done nothing for six long years while this country has stagnated. Now , the GOP wishes to be rewarded with the White House in trade for this treachery.
103
There can only be a two-state solution iif the Palestinians give up on their demand for the "right of return," which would wipe Israel as we know it off the map.
When the U.S. was attacked on September 11, our reaction was to bomb the living hell out of Afghanistan. There was zero nuance from George Bush or his idiot neocons with respect to Middle East policy. Bombs away! And it's not as if the US (unlike Israel) was being attacked on all sides on a continuous basis by countries bent on the complete destruction of our nation. Yet it is Israel that is expected to defend itself with surgical precision whenever it is attacked.
The Palestinian "government" is an oxymoron. They're absolutely corrupt and do nothing with the billions of dollars in aid they've been given to rebuild. Instead, they use the money to build tunnels to carry out terrorist attacks against Israel, and/or line their own pockets. These are actual facts, in case you hadn't heard. The Palestinians are churning out terrorists on an assembly line, which is what happens when you preach hate and intolerance to your schoolchildren.
So please stop blaming Netanyahu. If the Palestinians see Lieberman as a strongman, perhaps that will help them find their way to the negotiating table, since the only thing they ever seem to understand is force.
When the U.S. was attacked on September 11, our reaction was to bomb the living hell out of Afghanistan. There was zero nuance from George Bush or his idiot neocons with respect to Middle East policy. Bombs away! And it's not as if the US (unlike Israel) was being attacked on all sides on a continuous basis by countries bent on the complete destruction of our nation. Yet it is Israel that is expected to defend itself with surgical precision whenever it is attacked.
The Palestinian "government" is an oxymoron. They're absolutely corrupt and do nothing with the billions of dollars in aid they've been given to rebuild. Instead, they use the money to build tunnels to carry out terrorist attacks against Israel, and/or line their own pockets. These are actual facts, in case you hadn't heard. The Palestinians are churning out terrorists on an assembly line, which is what happens when you preach hate and intolerance to your schoolchildren.
So please stop blaming Netanyahu. If the Palestinians see Lieberman as a strongman, perhaps that will help them find their way to the negotiating table, since the only thing they ever seem to understand is force.
37
Total American aid to Israel since 1949 exceeds $121 billion (in non-inflation-adjusted dollars).
In 2007, President George Bush and Israel entered into a 10-year Memoradum of Understanding that would give Israel $30 billion in Foreign Military Assitance.
At the completion of this 10-year-plan in 2018, the U.S. will have given Israel $30 billion in unconditional military aid. The United States awards this grant in one lump sum, unlike other foreign recipients, which receive their payments in installments. Israel uses the interest it earns on this amount to pay down its debt to the United States, valued at $455 million in January 2013. In his March 2013 visit to Israel, President Barack Obama pledged to continue multi-year aid packages to Israel through 2028.
Under the terms of the agreement, Israel will be able to spend 26 percent of these U.S. funds on Israeli-manufactured military equipment. (This is known as Off-Shore Procurement.) This agreement, which is unique only to Israel, has allowed Israel to grow to be the world’s 7th largest exporter of military weaponry and equipment.
Also loan guarantees, refugee resettlement assistance, and reduced cost or free military equipment.
And we can't fund maintaining our infrastructure that would employ millions at living wage jobs.
In 2007, President George Bush and Israel entered into a 10-year Memoradum of Understanding that would give Israel $30 billion in Foreign Military Assitance.
At the completion of this 10-year-plan in 2018, the U.S. will have given Israel $30 billion in unconditional military aid. The United States awards this grant in one lump sum, unlike other foreign recipients, which receive their payments in installments. Israel uses the interest it earns on this amount to pay down its debt to the United States, valued at $455 million in January 2013. In his March 2013 visit to Israel, President Barack Obama pledged to continue multi-year aid packages to Israel through 2028.
Under the terms of the agreement, Israel will be able to spend 26 percent of these U.S. funds on Israeli-manufactured military equipment. (This is known as Off-Shore Procurement.) This agreement, which is unique only to Israel, has allowed Israel to grow to be the world’s 7th largest exporter of military weaponry and equipment.
Also loan guarantees, refugee resettlement assistance, and reduced cost or free military equipment.
And we can't fund maintaining our infrastructure that would employ millions at living wage jobs.
474
Fairly myopic post, as them money is the least issue between the US & Israel.
2
Bernie's' choir. Cut aid to Israel. We do not need the Israeli advanced technologies installed in American weapon systems, we no not need the enormous intelligence support, we do not care that Israel is the only democracy and that since 1947 Palestinians have rejected every peace proposal, we do not care that Israel is at the forefront of the fight against terror. Cut the aid to Israel because we should live in the slime of political correctness and moral equivalency up to our nose.
4
Israel has accomplished in 68 years more then the rest of their adversaries combined. Read Churchill
4
"Baffling"?
7
Birds of a feather flock together. Lieberman and Netanyahu must have been twins in a former life. I'm not baffled at Netanyahu's dumb decision, and its timing in relation to the Egyptian President message of peace.
As for the former bar bouncer, it appears that his style is intended to intimidate his opponents, but the walk does not necessarily match the talk.
As for the former bar bouncer, it appears that his style is intended to intimidate his opponents, but the walk does not necessarily match the talk.
27
Our POTUS has done his level-headed best to erode our relationship with Israel, but it's particularly crazy to hear the NYT editors rail against Israel's PM's choice for Minister of Defense. The NYT does not run Israel, and neither does the US or POTUS. Israel is a sovereign nation, but apparently the NYT doesn't like that fact.
20
Israel is a sovereign nation, certainly, But is the U.S., now that is the real question.
8
The real issues are Israel's begging bowl being filled at the expense of the education and other needs of American citizens and AIPAC's interference in domestic US affairs at the behest of the foreign power that is Israel.
43
Karlostj: Wrong! The one who eroded our relationship with Israel was Netanyahu, and our idiot congress didn't help when they invited him here in disrespect to our
President. Israel doen't"run"us , although Netanyahu tried....
President. Israel doen't"run"us , although Netanyahu tried....
13
America has over 19 trillion dollars of debt, yet we borrow money from China to give to Israel, who will never be at peace, no matter how much we give them. Please note that Netanyahu is always unhappy and ungrateful, saying what we give to Israel is never enough.
What is wrong with this picture?
Enough already.
What is wrong with this picture?
Enough already.
424
What is wrong with this picture is that it is the mirror image you are looking at Melissa, Bebe has singlehandedly driven a wedge between Isreal and the US. actually that is good thing, becuase finally the time has come to ask what is the rteurn on our massive investment.
10
To say that Israel will never be at peace, while certainly reasonable considering recent and less-recent history and current prospects for the near future, is extremely defeatist and pessimistic. Israel might one day be at peace if the US and Europe made a concerted effort to force on both sides to sit at a table and talk, and threaten leaders on both sides who are resisting any efforts towards peace - and pandering to their own populace's scared and racist sides - with sanctions and other methods, such as cutting off aid.
So you're right in that the aid shouldn't be unconditional, it should be used as leverage for Israel's political leaders to start actively and seriously working again towards a solution, and the US needs to show that it's happy to cut it off should they continue with their current run of hateful, divisive and incendiary politics.
So you're right in that the aid shouldn't be unconditional, it should be used as leverage for Israel's political leaders to start actively and seriously working again towards a solution, and the US needs to show that it's happy to cut it off should they continue with their current run of hateful, divisive and incendiary politics.
1
If you think destabilizing Israel, the only stable, prosperous democracy in the Middle East, is a good idea, then by all means cut off aid to Israel.
2
Does anyone really think that Israel, or at least her politicians, have any interest in a peaceful two state solution with the Palestinians. I mean come on while they used to sort of say they did and then did things that proved that they didn't now they don't even bother with pretending. How many successive administrations have wasted their time attempting to solve this problem? Israel pays no price for it's action, rather it is rewarded by the USA doing it's dirty work in the UN and supplying it with endless amount of weapons that are more often than not used to kill civilians.
Why is anybody surprised that Netanyahu would care what America thinks. He insults our government, our institutions and does things that we would cause us to cut off diplomatic with any other country, if not bomb them and what do we do? We negotiate how much money and weapons we should give them over the next 10 years.
Pathetic, the whole situation just stinks.
Why is anybody surprised that Netanyahu would care what America thinks. He insults our government, our institutions and does things that we would cause us to cut off diplomatic with any other country, if not bomb them and what do we do? We negotiate how much money and weapons we should give them over the next 10 years.
Pathetic, the whole situation just stinks.
268
Netanyahu is just a standard fascist. No jackboots, but he has murderous intent very much like the Nazi's, and for the same reasons. Just switch the word Aryan with Jew, and the description fits. The Arabs are the useless feeders, and the Jews are the Master Race. As our own Indian wars have taught us, the useless feeders have precious little right to exist. The common denominator in all of this is that Ashkenazi Jews, American Anglo Saxons, and Germans are all Teutonic people, but we try hard not to notice.
What makes you think it's Israel fault that there isn't a peace? In all of its 66 years of existence, Israel has never started a war and only made peace with its real non-made up country neighbors.
2
You've got it precisely backwards. It is the Palestinians who have no interest in a peaceful two-state solution with Israel. They've rejected every peace deal that's ever been offered to them, and they preach the destruction of Israel and hatred of the Jews on a minute-by-minute basis.
Supporting Israel, the only stable democracy in the Middle East, is essential to our nation's security. Since the Palestinians only understand brute force, perhaps having Mr. Lieberman in the position of minister of defense may prompt the Palestinians to actually think about negotiating with Israel.
Supporting Israel, the only stable democracy in the Middle East, is essential to our nation's security. Since the Palestinians only understand brute force, perhaps having Mr. Lieberman in the position of minister of defense may prompt the Palestinians to actually think about negotiating with Israel.
2
Pre-1948, the Arabs rejected two partition proposals: the Peel commission (1937) and the UN Partition Plan (1947).
In 2000, President Clinton proposed for Palestine: 95% of the West Bank, Gaza, and the Arab neighborhoods in East Jerusalem. Clinton in his book "My Life" (p.944) stated "Arafat's rejection of my proposal after Barak (Israel's PM) accepted it was an error of historic proportions."
In 2008, Israeli PM Olmert offered 93.7% of the West Bank, 5.8% of Israeli territory, Gaza and joint control over religious sites in Jerusalem. Abbas rejected that offer.
A permanent, peaceful resolution will happen only when there are courageous leaders on both sides who are willing to compromise for peace. Netanyahu may not be such a leader; but the Palestinians have never had one.
In 2000, President Clinton proposed for Palestine: 95% of the West Bank, Gaza, and the Arab neighborhoods in East Jerusalem. Clinton in his book "My Life" (p.944) stated "Arafat's rejection of my proposal after Barak (Israel's PM) accepted it was an error of historic proportions."
In 2008, Israeli PM Olmert offered 93.7% of the West Bank, 5.8% of Israeli territory, Gaza and joint control over religious sites in Jerusalem. Abbas rejected that offer.
A permanent, peaceful resolution will happen only when there are courageous leaders on both sides who are willing to compromise for peace. Netanyahu may not be such a leader; but the Palestinians have never had one.
33
In 1947, Jews in Palestine owned 6% of the land. The U.N. partition granted the Jews more than half of the land.
Were you a Palestinian, would you have accepted such a "compromise?"
Were you a Palestinian, would you have accepted such a "compromise?"
Thank you Steven, finally some facts.
2
Those numbers are misleading.
You are inferring that all the rest were owned by Arabs.
That the Arabs owned 94 percent of the land.
That is not true.
Almost all of this land was owned by no one.
For all you know Jews could have owned more land then the Muslims did.
You also seem not to know that the Muslims who did own land there had taken it from people who were Jewish.
You are inferring that all the rest were owned by Arabs.
That the Arabs owned 94 percent of the land.
That is not true.
Almost all of this land was owned by no one.
For all you know Jews could have owned more land then the Muslims did.
You also seem not to know that the Muslims who did own land there had taken it from people who were Jewish.
2
A recent episode of HBO's VICE featured young people as disgusted with their own ineffective, corrupt leaders as they were with Israeli oppression. Who could even represent 'Palestine' at any peace talks? Gazans elected Hamas, which uses the densely populated patch as a place to launch pointless attacks on Israel; and in the West Bank, Abbas hasn't held an election since 2009, reappointing himself, year after year.
Netanyahu is awful, and still dreams of an American president he can coax into taking on Iran; as Bush did, Iraq. He's overplayed his hand, alienating American supporters of Israel by disrespecting Obama, and getting in bed with a GOP that may very well be going the Way of the Whigs.
But no matter's who's PM in Israel, it would be madness to pretend a peace treaty could bring order and security to Gaza and the West Bank. And so long as these areas remain ungoverned and ungovernable, the stronger side will take what they can, pushing the borders of chaos back, one settlement at a time.
Netanyahu is awful, and still dreams of an American president he can coax into taking on Iran; as Bush did, Iraq. He's overplayed his hand, alienating American supporters of Israel by disrespecting Obama, and getting in bed with a GOP that may very well be going the Way of the Whigs.
But no matter's who's PM in Israel, it would be madness to pretend a peace treaty could bring order and security to Gaza and the West Bank. And so long as these areas remain ungoverned and ungovernable, the stronger side will take what they can, pushing the borders of chaos back, one settlement at a time.
18
Israel gave back Gaza to the Palestinians ( indigenous Arabs ),and got Hamas.
To see/hear Obamas Mid East policies before they happened just listen to Obamas mentor Jeremiah Wrights speeches. It's astounding how pr3dictable Obama is. Americans are stupid to give Obama a pass.
To see/hear Obamas Mid East policies before they happened just listen to Obamas mentor Jeremiah Wrights speeches. It's astounding how pr3dictable Obama is. Americans are stupid to give Obama a pass.
4
Ehud Barak said this appointment "Sowed the seeds of fascism" and comes on the heels of Yair Golan's comparison of Israel to Nazi Germany. These comments paint a bleak future for all concerned when a two State solution has been abandoned.
22
Netanyahu anointed Lieberman Defense Minister even though they are caustic. It seems Netanyahu the nightmare is reinforcing alliances with the Pentagon to assure Goliath has his back in the future which leads me to believe Netanyahu is contemplating hostilities outside the immediate vicinity of Israel. It wouldn't be the first time we were drawn into conflict defending a friend.
As it is now, a passive President Obama would refrain from joining a fight Israel started but the future is unpredictable specifically and political turmoil here might isolate Israel.
So what's a Netanyahu to do? He is buddying up with the Pentagon to assure Israel's military security. He's a troublemaker we don't need but the Pentagon loves him and the Pentagon always has it's way with the political leaders.
Every dollar we send to Israel in foreign aid and military hardware just keeps the region from peace. I've heard all the cliches and excuses but the fact remains, America is financing hostilities there and preventing peace.
As it is now, a passive President Obama would refrain from joining a fight Israel started but the future is unpredictable specifically and political turmoil here might isolate Israel.
So what's a Netanyahu to do? He is buddying up with the Pentagon to assure Israel's military security. He's a troublemaker we don't need but the Pentagon loves him and the Pentagon always has it's way with the political leaders.
Every dollar we send to Israel in foreign aid and military hardware just keeps the region from peace. I've heard all the cliches and excuses but the fact remains, America is financing hostilities there and preventing peace.
48
Baffling? Bibi has never shown the slightest interest in changing Israel's rogue-nation behavior. International law does not apply to Israel under Likud. Adding a right-wing thug to his team is at least an honest expression of the Prime Minister's intentions, suicidal though they will surely prove to be.
39
If Israelcwas truly "rogue" why did they give Gaza back to murderers? Israel is 5he only country in history who has tempered their war response..Thts why it goes on and on. Arabs and Islam respect only power. Spank them
4
"Mr. Netanyahu may also believe that a two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, creating a Palestinian state alongside Israel, as Washington has long advocated, is effectively dead for now, and that he may get a better defense deal from the next president."
Mr. Netanyahu absolutely does not believe in a two state solution. The right-wing government and many Israelis claim the West Bank as their own, and they are slowly taking it over via the state-sponsored settlement process. Palestinians resist this, which is their right.
Mr. Netanyahu absolutely does not believe in a two state solution. The right-wing government and many Israelis claim the West Bank as their own, and they are slowly taking it over via the state-sponsored settlement process. Palestinians resist this, which is their right.
25
"who has threatened, among other things, to conquer Gaza or bomb the Aswan Dam in the event of a war with Egypt. "
++++++++++++++++++++++++
The last eight words being key "in the event of war with Egypt". Of course those things are fair game. If there is war with Egypt, you don't want Gaza like an arrow in your midsection, and bombing the dam (like we did on the Rhine in WWII) would probably scour the Nile Valley to the sea and win the war.
++++++++++++++++++++++++
The last eight words being key "in the event of war with Egypt". Of course those things are fair game. If there is war with Egypt, you don't want Gaza like an arrow in your midsection, and bombing the dam (like we did on the Rhine in WWII) would probably scour the Nile Valley to the sea and win the war.
10
Baffling? Only if you have had illusions about who Netanyahu is, and where Israeli politics are heading. Of course, the editorial page of the NY Times may very well be baffled, but many of us sadly are not.
19
Like other Israeli leaders in the past ( Ezer Wiezman, Moshe Dyan Arik Sharon) Bibi is convinced that he is indispensable to Israel'e future, and willing to sacrifice all principles in order to keep his hands on the reigns of power.
The truth of the matter is he may be right. There is no one else in the political spectra who couild possibly be a better choice.
The truth of the matter is he may be right. There is no one else in the political spectra who couild possibly be a better choice.
6
Wow. So that makes it ok? Ok to sacrifice all pronciples? If that is the common feeling in Isreal, then what future is that?
The Senate of this country weakened both our democracy and our foreign policy by inviting Benjamin Netanyahu to address the Senate while shunning the President that we citizens elected. This emboldened Netayahu to begin to act as if he were the President of the United States by telling us we why we need to get behind HIS foreign policy. That stunt alone is reason enough to begin ejecting EVERY senator who pulled this stunt, one by one as they come up for election.
128
Actually, it was Speaker of the House, Boehner who invited Netanyahu to speak before a joint session of Congress.
10
The list of 47 Traitors should be widely known and they should be reminded of their treachery.
1
The result of this stunt was even more aid being thrown at Israel. No consequences both for Netanyahu or the senators who invited him. No wonder Netanyahu can continue on his merry course.
1
Most large powerful nations have incorrigible clients. China has North Korea and we have Israel.
The funny part is that we keep expecting China to bring North Korea to heel.
The funny part is that we keep expecting China to bring North Korea to heel.
18
The American taxpayer must no longer support Netanyahu,s political, ambitions
with $3.5 billion or more in military aid with the appointment of this political extremist in such a critical role
Let's invest that $3.5 billion for the benefit of our infrastructure, it's not enough but it is a start
with $3.5 billion or more in military aid with the appointment of this political extremist in such a critical role
Let's invest that $3.5 billion for the benefit of our infrastructure, it's not enough but it is a start
91
I knew Netanyahu would be a disaster to the Palestinian/Israeli conflict from the moment he won re-election. But he is smart and politically shrewd. And he sees an opportunity if Clinton gets in. Bibi expects (rightly, IMO) that Clinton will be the pliant kowtower she always has been to Israeli. Why not shoot for the moon? I imagine the calculus would be the same for Trump. But if Sanders were the nominee? Then somebody more pragmatic - in the mold of Tzipi Livni - would be chosen instead.
9
Given that Sanders used one of his five picks for the Democratic platform committee on a supporter of the Palestinians, who killed more Jews in the 20th century than anyone else but Hitler. But they get a big toast in libnut bars, right after they cheer the death of Scalia some more..
4
The DNC conundrum: Trump beats Hillary, Sanders trumps Trump.
Former Prime Minister Ehud Barak warns of "the seeds of fascism"
"I'm alarmed by what's happening in Israel, he says, I think my children should leave."
Israel has been "infected by the seeds of fascism", he said, adding that it should be "a red light for all of us regarding what's going on in the government."
- Mon May 23, 2016
"I'm alarmed by what's happening in Israel, he says, I think my children should leave."
Israel has been "infected by the seeds of fascism", he said, adding that it should be "a red light for all of us regarding what's going on in the government."
- Mon May 23, 2016
53
What is baffling about it? The Israeli hard right is in a grab-all-the-land-God-promised-us mode. Always has been. Always will be. With their increasing numbers though immigration and high birth rates, nothing can stop them. Meanwhile the world sours on supporting a Jewish homeland, but the right doesn't care. That is how much they want that land. Israel is heading for some very tough times.
137
Benjamin Netanyahu is Israel's Donald Trump.
And electing Trump as U.S. President will only allow Netanyahu to act even more Trump-like.
And electing Trump as U.S. President will only allow Netanyahu to act even more Trump-like.
13
Mr. Lieberman's appointment as minister of defense is an insult to the United States, and a slap in the face to everybody, Jewish or Palestinian, who hopes and is fighting for peace.
Mr. Lieberman's appointment, in lieu of his dabbling in US politics and in undermining the White House (something that by the way, he did poorly) indicates --again-- that Netanyahu's government is no longer an ally, but an enemy of the United States.
Mr. Lieberman's appointment, in lieu of his dabbling in US politics and in undermining the White House (something that by the way, he did poorly) indicates --again-- that Netanyahu's government is no longer an ally, but an enemy of the United States.
67
But by all means let's send in Trump to negotiate with Netanyahu and Avigdor Lieberman. I'm sure his vast experience building casinos and thwarting unions is really going to come in handy.
21
The editorial neglects to mention another crucial point--the appointment of Lieberman as defense minister is broadly and deeply opposed in Israel. Lieberman is seen within Israel, including by the center-right, as grossly unfit for the job. His appointment is viewed as a cynical, and particularly shocking abdication of the national trust by Netanyahu, who apparently cares about literally nothing other than his day-to-day political survival.
342
This isn't accurate to say the least, you based your assumptions on what you hear on the street, this isn't a scientific nor politically correct. Lieberman is one of the only politicians that has common sense and one of the only ones who can bring real long lasting solution to the conflict.
2
He has a friend and fellow hawk in Hillary.
I wonder what Israel would do if we finally took off the training wheels off and stopped giving them billions. They are only able to behave this way because we are funding their behavior. Want a real 2 state solution? Turn the spigot off.
285
It's not a spigot, it's a fire hose if you look at the total population of Israel. Someone needs to start screaming about choices, when Baltimore is on fire we send the trucks to Tel Aviv.
Clinton will be more of the same.
Send money to Bernie, it ain't over till it's over.
Hopefully Trump will do the right thing.
Clinton will be more of the same.
Send money to Bernie, it ain't over till it's over.
Hopefully Trump will do the right thing.
6
Good comment, Garrett Clay! I'm with you on this one.
I'm sorry you don't like Mr. Lieberman, but the folks you relentlessly promoted lost the election, and you cannot expect the Prime Minister to select his cabinet from those whom the times would slobber over.
8
What, exactly, does the Israeli government of Benjamin Netanyahu have to do before the NYT gets the point that Israel has absolutely no interest in peace? Netanyahu and the people around him are accomplishing what the founders of Israel always wanted to do - settle the entirety of Mandate Palestine (and beyond) and hold the Palestinians in permanent subjugation. Well, that's not quite right - the original Zionist settlers wants to expel all the Palestinians and a sizable majority of Israelis today is in favor of the same goal, so it may only be a matter of time before some future Israeli government moves to implement this desire. It should be obvious by now that the two-state solution is all but dead. Jewish settlers on occupied land have increased by 25% since 2006. If that does not speak to Israeli intentions, then nothing does.
The US is responsible for this. It has enabled and coddled the worst elements of Israeli society and politics for far, far too long. For the rest of the world, it is time to start talking seriously about implementing tough economic and political sanctions against Israel. Israel will make peace and the concessions necessary for peace only if it understands that there is a price to pay for its actions. We all know what a final, sustainable peace looks like. It has been spelled out since 1967. It is time to force Israel to get out of Occupied Palestine. It is time for the US to admit it is hopelessly biased and compromised and get out of the way.
The US is responsible for this. It has enabled and coddled the worst elements of Israeli society and politics for far, far too long. For the rest of the world, it is time to start talking seriously about implementing tough economic and political sanctions against Israel. Israel will make peace and the concessions necessary for peace only if it understands that there is a price to pay for its actions. We all know what a final, sustainable peace looks like. It has been spelled out since 1967. It is time to force Israel to get out of Occupied Palestine. It is time for the US to admit it is hopelessly biased and compromised and get out of the way.
29
What amazing gall on the part of your editorial board. Imagine if the Israeli press wrote that an American cabinet appointment detrimental to Israel's interests. Your anti Israel / Anti Netanyahu bias is overwhelming.
14
Anti netanyahu with good reason
2
Give us back our money. You have gall.
Also in case you didn't know you put us at risk. So go fight on your own. The US will make peace with whomever rises.
Also in case you didn't know you put us at risk. So go fight on your own. The US will make peace with whomever rises.
We and the U.S. seem to be having a contest about whose politics can be the dirtiest, vilest, and least helpful to either country. The major difference, IMHO, is that we are surrounded by zillions of citizens of countries that would rather we not exist at all. (As far as I know, the U.S. doesn't face any imminent threat of annihilation by Canada or Mexico.) And while we used to ask (albeit tongue-in-cheek) "Is it good for the Jews?" and/or "Is it good for Israel?" it has, to my great sorrow and trepidation, become "Is it good for the WORLD?" Sadly, and realistically, the future of our planet ain't all that bright right now.
7
Why are we negotiating with Israel on how much money we are going to give them?
25
This is a parting gift to Obama who has given more assistance to Israel then to almost any other country. I wonder what will happen if a country like Pakistan who also receives a lot of aid appoint a Talaban as a Defence Minister. This is the type of propaganda that radical Islam uses, it will be interesting to see the reaction from Obama.
6
If Israel hates us so much, why give them money? We have better used for our money here - Infrastructure, education, jobs, health care.
40
I can't imagine why the Israeli's and the US are pouring so much money into the military. Israeli has no credible threat on the horizon. In 1967 Egypt, Jordan, Syria were credible threats. Syria and Jordan are out of the picture. Egypt and Israel have some type status quo agreement in order. The Saudi's are the most heavily armed group in the area. Maybe now is a good time to back off and make our commitment to Israel on a more day to day basis.
9
Could America's foreign policy for Israel be any less ridiculous in continuing billions of dollars in foreign aid and 100 % moral support despite Netanyahu openly insulting president Obama and making no effort to resolve the Palestinian question?
America's allies and enemies around the world must be dumbstruck at Obama's strange reluctance to draw the line with Bebe's obnoxious defiance to American attempts at middle east diplomacy.
Since my government won't do its job with Israel, I will make my own pronouncement as an American taxpayer:
I, Michael Kittle, American taxpayer, hereby refuse to allow any of my income taxes to be spent on foreign aid to Israel until the Israeli government demonstrates a sincere effort to work with president Obama toward middle eastern and Palestinian peace!
America's allies and enemies around the world must be dumbstruck at Obama's strange reluctance to draw the line with Bebe's obnoxious defiance to American attempts at middle east diplomacy.
Since my government won't do its job with Israel, I will make my own pronouncement as an American taxpayer:
I, Michael Kittle, American taxpayer, hereby refuse to allow any of my income taxes to be spent on foreign aid to Israel until the Israeli government demonstrates a sincere effort to work with president Obama toward middle eastern and Palestinian peace!
26
Israel is tilting right because America has tilted left. It's as simple as that. What should really worry the administration, is that Israel is no longer disguising contempt for US policymakers in its day-to-day matters, the president in particular. No signing any deals until Trump takes office. No symbolic visits, no forced smiles, no hesitant handshakes. Minimal token engagement seems to be the order of the day.
It's a remarkable deterioration in relations, but specific to Barack, John and co., a message that the Senate doubtless gets. Nevertheless, no real harm done, since this burnt bridge will be readily reconstructed starting next January. But it's still troublesome, the dignity of the presidential office taking a hit.
Who's to blame for that, Bibi or Barack? ...Correct.
It's a remarkable deterioration in relations, but specific to Barack, John and co., a message that the Senate doubtless gets. Nevertheless, no real harm done, since this burnt bridge will be readily reconstructed starting next January. But it's still troublesome, the dignity of the presidential office taking a hit.
Who's to blame for that, Bibi or Barack? ...Correct.
12
TMK, when did Netanyahu ever conceal contempt for anyone? His unearned arrogance arises from a fundamental misunderstanding of the relationship between Israel and America. His scorn for the symbolic gestures to which you refer does no harm to Mr. Obama or the U.S., because it is his government that depends on aid from this country, and not vice versa.
Netanyahu's belief that he can manipulate American policy over the long run rests on his confidence that the vast majority of people in this country support Israel and value it as an ally. While this remains true, the behavior of the Israeli government cannot help but undermine that relationship. Equally important, Netanyahu's hostility to US policy ignores the fact that the purpose of that policy is to shore up Israeli security. After all, if he provokes a full-scale Palestinian revolt, Israelis, not Americans, will pay the price.
Netanyahu, in short, has risked the welfare of his country on a very dangerous gambit, and it is he, not Mr. Obama, who should be losing sleep at night.
Netanyahu's belief that he can manipulate American policy over the long run rests on his confidence that the vast majority of people in this country support Israel and value it as an ally. While this remains true, the behavior of the Israeli government cannot help but undermine that relationship. Equally important, Netanyahu's hostility to US policy ignores the fact that the purpose of that policy is to shore up Israeli security. After all, if he provokes a full-scale Palestinian revolt, Israelis, not Americans, will pay the price.
Netanyahu, in short, has risked the welfare of his country on a very dangerous gambit, and it is he, not Mr. Obama, who should be losing sleep at night.
146
Since when has America tilted left? Our Republican Congress has marched as arch-right as Bibi and his happy warriors, so far right that it has already arrived at the abyss of fascism.
But then, no one in this country is openly saying it, while the Deputy Chief of the IDF, Golan, just compared his government actions with the ones of Europe in the 1930s.
But yeah, "the dignity of the presidential office" will most certainly be installed again by a misogynist, vulgar and no-nothing racist frat boy Il Trumpolini come Jan. 2017.
But then, no one in this country is openly saying it, while the Deputy Chief of the IDF, Golan, just compared his government actions with the ones of Europe in the 1930s.
But yeah, "the dignity of the presidential office" will most certainly be installed again by a misogynist, vulgar and no-nothing racist frat boy Il Trumpolini come Jan. 2017.
13
America is not tilting left, quite the contrary (witness the rise of far-right Trump with his biggest rival being one of the most centrist Democrats in decades) and Israel tilting right has nothing to do with America, but rather a result of a politics of fear propagated there by politicians very similar to Donald Trump. As an Israeli expat I lay not a single bit of blame at Obama's feet for the deterioration of the US-Israeli relations, and every bit of it at Netanyahu's, who has no vision or concern for the future of his country and has used his extremely long tenure solely for the purpose of keeping himself in power through the creation and continuous underlining of an us vs. them mentality in the populace (with 'us' being Israeli Jews and 'them' being particularly Arabs and Palestinians but also literally everyone else, including America).
109
Oh come on, how disingenuous can the Times Editorial Board be? This is not at all baffling to anyone who has paid attention to the actions of Netanyahu's government since he took office. Mass murder of civilians, thumbing his nose at Obama - how could anyone be surprised at this?
And I'm afraid your prediction "The next American president is not likely to abandon support for a two-state solution" is sadly naive as well. The likely choice is between a rabid Islamaphobe and a neocon hawk who declared her unswerving support of Israel at the last AIPAC conference no matter how heinous its government's actions. The only candidate who thinks the rights of the Palestinians are at all relevant is the Jewish guy your paper has been so dismissive of since Day One.
And I'm afraid your prediction "The next American president is not likely to abandon support for a two-state solution" is sadly naive as well. The likely choice is between a rabid Islamaphobe and a neocon hawk who declared her unswerving support of Israel at the last AIPAC conference no matter how heinous its government's actions. The only candidate who thinks the rights of the Palestinians are at all relevant is the Jewish guy your paper has been so dismissive of since Day One.
18
Excellent comment. Thank you
If history is any indicator, the peace treaties with Egypt and Jordan were signed by Rightist Israeli governments, as were previous agreements with the Palestinians. The anti-Netanyahu knee-jerk reactions by the New York Times and its Liberal readers notwithstanding, Israeli Governments are created for the benefit of the Israeli people and do not need the approval of any foreign leader, Barak Obama included. That's the nature of Democracy, which seemingly has been forgotten by this newspaper and the US leadership over the past nearly 8 years.
10
If Israeli governments don't need the approval of the US, yet continue to expect huge sums of money from us -- well, what does that say about them?
1
Let's face it; Netanyahu has nothing to fear from American politicians who will always back up Israel, no matter what the Israeli government does.
He knows it. We know it. The Europeans know it. The whole world knows it. American politicians are putty in the hands of the reactionary Likud leaders of Israel.
Oh, some American politicians may voice displeasure on rare occasions, but this amounts to nothing material. Israel can commit mass murder, literally, but they are always supported by the American government. What this means of course is that there is never any progress in negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians because Israel never has to negotiate seriously. They know America will always back them up.
If the US and the rest of the world decided to cut off all relations with Israel, there would be a fair and reasonable peace settlement between Israel and the Palestinians within a year. Little doubt about that.
Therefore one can assume that the US has always been the greatest obstacle to peace in the Middle East.
He knows it. We know it. The Europeans know it. The whole world knows it. American politicians are putty in the hands of the reactionary Likud leaders of Israel.
Oh, some American politicians may voice displeasure on rare occasions, but this amounts to nothing material. Israel can commit mass murder, literally, but they are always supported by the American government. What this means of course is that there is never any progress in negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians because Israel never has to negotiate seriously. They know America will always back them up.
If the US and the rest of the world decided to cut off all relations with Israel, there would be a fair and reasonable peace settlement between Israel and the Palestinians within a year. Little doubt about that.
Therefore one can assume that the US has always been the greatest obstacle to peace in the Middle East.
10
With the coming 10 year defense agreement with America, Netanyahu appears to have pandered to the Pentagon to win support showing us that a hard line offensive leaning minister will assure continued hostilities to satisfy the Pentagon. Generals are not peace makers and while the naive political leaders are flustered and hoping for a peace agreement, the Israelis are assuring that Goliath backs David. We are now entering the realm of political instability and no one knows what the future holds politically, so the military's are colluding to assure that any offensive moves by Netanyahu are backed up by the Pentagon which really has sway over our foreign policy.
While the naive Washington politicians work to make peace, the reality is Israeli aggression will be backed up by the Pentagon. That is the way of the world.
While the naive Washington politicians work to make peace, the reality is Israeli aggression will be backed up by the Pentagon. That is the way of the world.
72
Israel aggression? Israel is being attacked all the time.
What would America do if constantly being attacked?
What would America do if constantly being attacked?
7
I beg to differ. ISRAELI Generals and the hard right leaders have always been the first to make peace. Menachem Begin signed the peace accord with Egyptian President Sadat and was responsible for Israel exiting the Sinai. Removing settlements, air strips and a buffer zone for safety.
General SHARON dismantled the settlements in Gaza.
These were dynamic men.
Israel and Netanyahu need a Palestinian counterpart that is willing to make bold moves for peace.
General SHARON dismantled the settlements in Gaza.
These were dynamic men.
Israel and Netanyahu need a Palestinian counterpart that is willing to make bold moves for peace.
5
Netanyahu and the Israeli Right , with a USA submissive Congressare, are doing every thing and anything to preempt and close the possibility of an eventual Arab USA entente by playing the Pentagon against the White House and playing both against the Foreign office.
Their strategic outlook presumes, and ordains, endless Arab American vehement hostility and rabid open enmity as the ultimate safety gurantee of Israel
Their strategic outlook presumes, and ordains, endless Arab American vehement hostility and rabid open enmity as the ultimate safety gurantee of Israel
If the two-state solution is dead, "for now" or permanently, it is because Bibi killed. When will people realize, what will it take for them to realize that Netanyahu has no interest in peace. Peace will not keep him in office, only tension and war. Some politicians can only gain power and keep from the barrel of gun. Bibi took office soon after Rabin's assassination by a Jewish extremist and has kept power by sabotaging any peace effort.
14
The headline indicates it is a baffling choice. It is not. It is an expected choice which followes a consistent and logical progression in the direction Netanyahu has been taking his entire political career. He is the man who keeps Israel safe by using a brutal fist. It is now his distinct calling card. And most importantly it is his ticket for re-election and the furthering of his political career. The Israeli people have validated that ticket. From basically fire bombing the civilian population in densely populated Gaza, to bulldozing the homes of family members of terrorists, and to now giving the implicit OK to the cold blooded execution of a terrorist who lays on the ground defenseless and unthreatening, nothing Netanyahu does should in the least shock or surprise anybody. With him as Israel's apparent chosen leader for life, the oft repeated phrase in America; Israel the only democracy in the Mid-East, has lost all meaning except to those who back Israel regardless of the actions of it PM.
15
Netanyahu's choice of a "hard-line" defense minister - baffling? What a completely unconvincing headline to your editorial? As if most would expect anything but this? How about "As could be Predicted, Netanyahu placates the hard-liners in Israel by picking a hard-line defense minister." Oh it seems time is running out for the Israeli state. I fear the worst because of it.
6
Let's stop giving Israel money, arms and lectures.
11
The Ides of March prediction is, if Trump wins, American leadership may end up making Avigdor Lieberman look like a reasoned liberal by comparison. There are many in Israel who don't like Lieberman, for good reasons. Nor does he begin to understand military issues like the seasoned Yaalon. But before knocking Israelis down, ask yourselves this tougher question. How can so many so-called intelligent Americans be serious about voting for Trump? Running another election in Israel isn't the solution to the 1 vote majority in the Knesset. Neither is Lieberman. But worse, Trump as the leader of the free world will quickly overshadow any complaints about Netanyahu and the limits of Parliamentarian politics.
9
With Netanyahu the Israeli people have embraced fear.
As a Jew myself I say - "Let My People Go."
As a Jew myself I say - "Let My People Go."
9
There will never be a two-state solution. And that is no fault of Netanyahu's in particular or Israel's in general.
It is a fact that the Palestinians have walked away from every single deal they have been offered, including the incredible deal offered to them by Prime Minister Ehud Barak in 2000 at Camp David. That deal included ceding to the Palestinians up to 92% of the West Bank and 100% control of Gaza, as well as custodianship of East Jerusalem. Yasser Arafat, the terrorist Palestinian leader, blew that off.
The Palestinians will never agree to a two-state solution because it is anathema to their goal of wiping Israel off the face of the map. Any Palestinian leader who compromises with Israel knows he will be a marked man. That's what happens when you preach hatred of Jews to your school children, deny the Holocaust, and paint Israel as the cause of all of your problems from time immemorial.
And the Israelis will never agree to the Palestinian demand for the "right of return," which would mean giving four million Palestinians the right to return to their former homes inside Israel, with property restored as well as monetary compensation. The "right of return" itself would mean the death of the Jewish State.
So, yeah, Netanyahu is right about a two-state solution being dead. And no matter who is president, the U.S. isn’t going to abandon Israel, the only stable (and prospering) democracy in the Middle East. To do otherwise would be insane.
It is a fact that the Palestinians have walked away from every single deal they have been offered, including the incredible deal offered to them by Prime Minister Ehud Barak in 2000 at Camp David. That deal included ceding to the Palestinians up to 92% of the West Bank and 100% control of Gaza, as well as custodianship of East Jerusalem. Yasser Arafat, the terrorist Palestinian leader, blew that off.
The Palestinians will never agree to a two-state solution because it is anathema to their goal of wiping Israel off the face of the map. Any Palestinian leader who compromises with Israel knows he will be a marked man. That's what happens when you preach hatred of Jews to your school children, deny the Holocaust, and paint Israel as the cause of all of your problems from time immemorial.
And the Israelis will never agree to the Palestinian demand for the "right of return," which would mean giving four million Palestinians the right to return to their former homes inside Israel, with property restored as well as monetary compensation. The "right of return" itself would mean the death of the Jewish State.
So, yeah, Netanyahu is right about a two-state solution being dead. And no matter who is president, the U.S. isn’t going to abandon Israel, the only stable (and prospering) democracy in the Middle East. To do otherwise would be insane.
15
I see nothing surprising is this latest move. Netanyahu is the embodiment of what Israel has become: a militaristic state that has completely given up on diplomacy.
57
You can't negotiate with terrorists. It's actually an American invention..
2
This is not "baffling" at all. A hard-line choice from Prime MInister Netanyahu is an obvious choice for him.
Mr. Netanyahu repeatedly demonstrates that he is an ultranationalist and has no desire to consider, much less engage, those with an opposite perspectives. Peace is not his agenda.
I wonder if he sees the irony in his position?
Mr. Netanyahu repeatedly demonstrates that he is an ultranationalist and has no desire to consider, much less engage, those with an opposite perspectives. Peace is not his agenda.
I wonder if he sees the irony in his position?
9
The Times has no right to an opinion on this issue.
They have shown they have no love for Israel.
In fact they have proved by the column that they have in their paper they are against Israel.
Avigdor Liebeman is a nationalist.
You expect Benjamin Netanyahu to appoint someone who is against Israel.
Why should Benjamin Netanyahu take the advice of a paper that isn't interested in the country he governs.
Benjamin Netanyahu can not take their advice If he loves Israel and for the Times to give it is proof they have become irrelevant and so opinionated they can not see the truth.
The truth is that the PA is the one who are toxic.
Lieberman tells the truth.
Why shouldn't Israel attack the Aswan Dam if or when Egypt attacks Israel,
and the only reason he would want to conquer Gaza is because Hamas has not only declared war against Israel they have on more than one occasion
has built tunnels into Israel which is an act of war.
That executed Palestinian was trying to kill Israelis.
Should they give him a prize.
What happenned to him is not so unusual.
He got what he deserved.
I can go on.
The reason the Times doesn't see this is because they care more about their circulation then they do about the people of Israel.
They have shown they have no love for Israel.
In fact they have proved by the column that they have in their paper they are against Israel.
Avigdor Liebeman is a nationalist.
You expect Benjamin Netanyahu to appoint someone who is against Israel.
Why should Benjamin Netanyahu take the advice of a paper that isn't interested in the country he governs.
Benjamin Netanyahu can not take their advice If he loves Israel and for the Times to give it is proof they have become irrelevant and so opinionated they can not see the truth.
The truth is that the PA is the one who are toxic.
Lieberman tells the truth.
Why shouldn't Israel attack the Aswan Dam if or when Egypt attacks Israel,
and the only reason he would want to conquer Gaza is because Hamas has not only declared war against Israel they have on more than one occasion
has built tunnels into Israel which is an act of war.
That executed Palestinian was trying to kill Israelis.
Should they give him a prize.
What happenned to him is not so unusual.
He got what he deserved.
I can go on.
The reason the Times doesn't see this is because they care more about their circulation then they do about the people of Israel.
13
Excuse me STONE, the Times has every right to any opinion on anything whatsoever. And, by the way, why are you reading their editorial if you think this way?
Does the American president want to make Bibi rethink his moves, and have him start serious negotiations with the Palestinians?
The solution is very simply. Slash the military aid to Israel by 50% or more. You will see results very quickly since that aid is seen as crucial. Now is the time for President Obama to act. BTW, I am an Israeli and I think less military aid to Israel will be a good thing. Sometimes one needs to stop feeding a spoilt child.
The solution is very simply. Slash the military aid to Israel by 50% or more. You will see results very quickly since that aid is seen as crucial. Now is the time for President Obama to act. BTW, I am an Israeli and I think less military aid to Israel will be a good thing. Sometimes one needs to stop feeding a spoilt child.
24
For a political system to work in a parlimentary system deals are made. Our American political system works that way as well when it's working well. Netanyahu needed to strengthen his coalition and ultimately he will call all of the shots in spite of Liberman being part of the government. Nothing really to worry about. Lieberman comes off as a tough guy. With enemies like Hamas, Hezballah, and Iran not to mention Abbas Lieberman may just be the perfect guy for the job of defending Israel and making peace with her enemies. Remember it was Menachem Begin a hard liner that made peace with Israel's biggest enemy at that time Egypt.
4
Perhaps the United States needs to recalibrate it's relationship with Israel in light of this anouncement.
It appears that building settlements and dominating the Palestinians is the new peace plan.
It appears that building settlements and dominating the Palestinians is the new peace plan.
9
As long as Israel occupies Palestinians' land, it makes little difference who is in its' government.
7
Be honest. President Obama hates Netanyahu and Israel and will contrive any excuse to belittle, be condescending towards or blame Israel for Obama's ruinous middle east policy. The more Israel refuses to be Obama's whipping boy, the more Obama punishes Israel and sics his cadre of supporters, like the NYT editorial board, against the tiny nation-state. Sadly the NYT is all too eager to oblige and has lost all sense objectivity in the process.
10
Netanyahu comes to America , disrespects our president , and has his hand out for a few billion more. I do 't think so.
3
My hope is that President Obama really cares about his legacy, and would like to earn that Nobel Peace prize.
He is the only person in the world who could pass a UN Security Council resolution setting tentative borders (allowing for mutually agreed territorial swaps) that would rescue the two state solution.
My fingers are crossed.
He is the only person in the world who could pass a UN Security Council resolution setting tentative borders (allowing for mutually agreed territorial swaps) that would rescue the two state solution.
My fingers are crossed.
2
Sounds like a good match for President Trump
4
If the U.S. survived Donald "Waterboarding" Rumsfeld as Secretary of Defense, Israel most certainly will survive Lieberman's stint as Minister of Defense, abhorrent as both choices were.
As for the Editorial Board's mind-boggling dismay at Lieberman's proposal to institute the death penalty for convicted terrorists: Have you not learned that people in glass houses should not throw stones?
As for the Editorial Board's mind-boggling dismay at Lieberman's proposal to institute the death penalty for convicted terrorists: Have you not learned that people in glass houses should not throw stones?
6
In the sense that I think you mean "survived" Rumsfeld's waterboarding, I don't think we have.
Many of America's problems around the world stem from its support of Israel. The naming of this war hawk by Likud isn't helping matters. Cut off aid for the facist Israeli government and let them go it alone. Enough of putting America at risk for their selfishness, fear, and paranoia.
9
I wonder what will happen if a country like Pakistan was to make a Taliban their defense Minister. Mind you Americans yesterday killed Mullah Mansour a Taliban leader who they claimed was standing in way of peace talks.
3
The use of "baffling" in the headline is entirely disingenuous.
3
"Has proposed instituting the death penalty for convicted terrorists."
I don't think the death penalty is too extreme a punishment for those who willfully and deliberately inflict death and terrible injury on others.
I don't think the death penalty is too extreme a punishment for those who willfully and deliberately inflict death and terrible injury on others.
6
What baffles me is that the New York Times (or any seasoned observer of Netanyahu) would call this "baffling".
5
Let's see, Obama has followed the anti-Israeli European apologists like a puppy on a string, while the Islamists have gained power in every direction from Israel. The only thing baffling is that the editorial board still thinks Obama has a foreign policy.
8
Why is it considered hard-line to believe that Jews should be able to build a house on land that was originally designated by the Balfour declaration as land legally set aside for the Jewish state? The Jews ultimately settled for much less than that in the partition of 1947 but the arabs (not Palestinians) attacked in an attempted annihilation of the new state. They lost that land to Jordan and egypt but they were fine with that - arabs are arabs. But in 1967 when they tried again to annihilate the jews (ALL arabs did...not "Palesitinians") the Jews succeeded in taking those territories for defensive purposes. Those lands are Judea and Samaria...the original Jewish homeland. In the 1990s Jews ceded that area to the Palestinian authority in an act of good will but terror did not stop. Jews never gave up the right to build and live there. They chose not to exert that right, but now they have decided that without a peace partner there is nothing to gain by giving up that territory. These are facts and not hard-line philosophies. Netanyahu knows Israeli history better than most of they NYT readers who think history started in 1967 with "the occupation".
14
Do you think the events of 1967 would have had the same outcome had the US not been supporting Israel? What? Is this a joke?
We are huddled in a dark corner afraid. All that follows, good or bad, begins there.
1
This is not baffling at all. Netanyahu, who projects himself as a hard-headed statesman dealing with difficult issues which softies are squeamish about, is in fact a frightened, small man who will do whatever it takes to insure his political survival. We saw this when he lost his cool and race-baited in the last election, and we're seeing it now as he worries about the military.
While Israel's security forces have done many objectionable things (as well as laudable ones), the real responsibility for most of them lies with the political leadership. In fact, Israel security leaders -- not all of them, but a substantial number -- have been for decades criticizing Israeli politicians for ordering disproportionate use of force, for failing to police Jews and Palestinians equally, and for policies which aim to fragment Palestinian society to the degree where retaliation is only to be expected.
As Israel has gone further to the right, Israeli security leaders have been increasingly critical; they condemn the policies on legal, moral and practical grounds. Netanyahu presumably hopes that Lieberman will try to bring them to heel.
So it's another ploy to stifle criticism. That he'd ask a man with positions that can fairly be called racist, little military experience, and a history of dangerous statements to be Defense Minister tells us he cares far more about his political survival than anything else -- including, it seems to some of us, his own country's good.
While Israel's security forces have done many objectionable things (as well as laudable ones), the real responsibility for most of them lies with the political leadership. In fact, Israel security leaders -- not all of them, but a substantial number -- have been for decades criticizing Israeli politicians for ordering disproportionate use of force, for failing to police Jews and Palestinians equally, and for policies which aim to fragment Palestinian society to the degree where retaliation is only to be expected.
As Israel has gone further to the right, Israeli security leaders have been increasingly critical; they condemn the policies on legal, moral and practical grounds. Netanyahu presumably hopes that Lieberman will try to bring them to heel.
So it's another ploy to stifle criticism. That he'd ask a man with positions that can fairly be called racist, little military experience, and a history of dangerous statements to be Defense Minister tells us he cares far more about his political survival than anything else -- including, it seems to some of us, his own country's good.
6
It's misleading to say that the Obama/Netanyahu relationship was strayed because of the Iran deal. The outright animosities from Netanyahu include: Bibi coming to the White House and, with the cameras rolling, refuting Obama's peace plans; Bibi going on American TV in support of then-candidate Romney; Biden being greeted in Israel with settlement development; then, not just a disagreement over the Iran deal, but Netanyahu addressing the Congress, like they reported to him, to snub Obama.
And being a bully to Obama has worked wonders in Israel for Bibi. Pathetic.
And being a bully to Obama has worked wonders in Israel for Bibi. Pathetic.
8
Two can play this game. Time to recognize the Palestinians as a legitimate government of an occupied State and sign a mutual defense agreement with it. Return Israel to its 1948 boundaries.
7
"Baffling/Hardline" sounds like an oxymoron
Netanyahu's cynicism and power grab is doing much harm to Israel's democracy. and Lieberman's appointment just confirms the opportunism involved, given that these two individuals are undermining any chance for a two state solution, as agreed so many times before, so peace, security and prosperity touches both Israelis and Palestinians; this, in strict justice. Machiavelli's 'the end justifies the means' seems the modus operandi of this far-right rigid ideology. Both, Netanyahu and Lieberman, are on the wrong side of history.
8
I would add they are on the wrong side of what's coming.
Netanyahu the nightmare is buddying up to the Pentagon, as you might imagine he has no reservations about insulting American politicians.
I've waited fifty years for a peaceful resolution to the ongoing conflict between Israel and Palestine. I gave up in 2014 when the Israelis created a hundred years of hatred by destroying Gaza.
Grow up everyone. Israeli paranoia is pitted against Palestinian desperation.
There will never be peace there.
I've waited fifty years for a peaceful resolution to the ongoing conflict between Israel and Palestine. I gave up in 2014 when the Israelis created a hundred years of hatred by destroying Gaza.
Grow up everyone. Israeli paranoia is pitted against Palestinian desperation.
There will never be peace there.
46
Bibi is quickly going to alienate his foreign allies,starting with Europe & soon the US . Lieberman is the Isreali equivalent of Ahmadinajehad of Iran. Isreali's are painting a political picture of hatred. Is this the way to maintain your allies? What will Bibi do next? My sympathies to Isreal. Karma is a form of justice.
7
Funny, but all the talk last week was Austria's turn to the right, all the while news outlets all over ignored Israel's (re)turn to the right. Now its get's medicore coverage in the Times. I wonder why? Just like with The Times' darling Hillary Clinton, Israel always gets favoriable coverage from the Times. The word "negative" disapears from their dictionary when either person or country comes up.
5
Are you for real? The NYT is well known for its anti-Israel coverage and has repeatedly been criticized for it.
13
Bibi sows and so shall he reap.
9
Since the Republicans never seem to do anything that isn't a cynical calculation, just wait until they decide that Israeli support no longer pays off politically. Then Israel will be without a friend in the world, and sad to say, deservedly so.
19
Pfff.. Did you see/hear/read Clinton's AIPAC speech?
1
Which Clinton, which speech, when?
1
Netanyahu has never cared what President Obama thinks because he has our Congress wrapped around his fingers. The truth is that President Obama has dignified himself and spoken for political justice in the face of Bibi's manipulations and antagonisms, but nothing will change unless our legislators cease being a Likud arm.
222
Netanyahu knows that Obama has less than a year left. He must be counting on Hillary being elected president. Trump has already said that he wants to be neutral between Israel and the Palestinians, for which he was accused of being anti-Semitic and defended himself by pointing to his Jewish grandchildren.
But Hillary is YOUR candidate, right? (smile).
But Hillary is YOUR candidate, right? (smile).
4
Netanyahu is the Trump of Israel. Let's hope the former loses power and the latter never gains it.
11
I don't know, not really that "baffling"...Prime Minister Netanyahu doesn't like President Obama. At all. Personally or politically. He's essentially aligned Israel with the Republican Party, and his plan for future relations is helping Republicans win elections in America. We saw it in the 2012 election and in the way he outsourced his office to Republicans on the Iran deal to help them make political points domestically.
Forget the issue of good/bad and wise/unwise. This move is just another stick in the eye of President Obama and a demonstration that the Prime Minister's strategy for good relations between the U.S. and Israel does not include good relations with this particular President. Even on the defense deal, the Prime Minister is relying on political pressure from the right to force a better deal, not getting a better deal by making up with President Obama. So this move isn't really baffling at all.
Forget the issue of good/bad and wise/unwise. This move is just another stick in the eye of President Obama and a demonstration that the Prime Minister's strategy for good relations between the U.S. and Israel does not include good relations with this particular President. Even on the defense deal, the Prime Minister is relying on political pressure from the right to force a better deal, not getting a better deal by making up with President Obama. So this move isn't really baffling at all.
6
It's time the US stop pretending the nations of Israel and Saudi Arabia are our allies.
254
When exactly did the right wing Israelis want or work to help peace? What difference does it make if one bigot moves from one role to the other in the context of the bigger picture - the chosen people. Even if the Palestinians were united and all swayed back and forth to the songs of leftist, peaceful Israelis, the right would not allow it.
6
Netanyahu's choice is not baffling at all.
He has toyed with the centrists and liberals in the Knesset. He had paid lip service to the palestinians for decades. There is ZERO intention, on his part, of making peace with either group. (and one wonders which would be more difficult).
Right now, his big buddy Sisi in Egypt, an autocrat, and his silent buddies in Saudi Arabia (also autocrats), and Erdogan in Turkey (a revived autocrat) are the ones throwing their weight around in the Middle East. Whether acknowledged or not, you can be sure that the four of them speak regularly.
None of them like Iran, none of them like what's going on in Syria, but none of them think it's worth saving.
And the palestinians? They have dilly dallied their way to complete irrelevance (thanks to Hamas, Iran, horrible leadership from Arafat forward) - they could have been in such a different place in 2016 if they had lifted one finger 15 years ago.
So for Netanyahu and Likud and the middle-east autocrats, this makes perfect sense. If tightens the bonds between the four of them, keeps that part of the Middle East peaceful for a while, and lets them keep their power. What could possibly be wrong with that?
Of course, eventually these marriages of convenience come to an end. Then, there's tzuris.
He has toyed with the centrists and liberals in the Knesset. He had paid lip service to the palestinians for decades. There is ZERO intention, on his part, of making peace with either group. (and one wonders which would be more difficult).
Right now, his big buddy Sisi in Egypt, an autocrat, and his silent buddies in Saudi Arabia (also autocrats), and Erdogan in Turkey (a revived autocrat) are the ones throwing their weight around in the Middle East. Whether acknowledged or not, you can be sure that the four of them speak regularly.
None of them like Iran, none of them like what's going on in Syria, but none of them think it's worth saving.
And the palestinians? They have dilly dallied their way to complete irrelevance (thanks to Hamas, Iran, horrible leadership from Arafat forward) - they could have been in such a different place in 2016 if they had lifted one finger 15 years ago.
So for Netanyahu and Likud and the middle-east autocrats, this makes perfect sense. If tightens the bonds between the four of them, keeps that part of the Middle East peaceful for a while, and lets them keep their power. What could possibly be wrong with that?
Of course, eventually these marriages of convenience come to an end. Then, there's tzuris.
1
Mr. Netanyahu is a disaster for Israel and for peace.
14
I agree with your comment but also a real disaster is what's ahead when Obama leaves the world scene. In a year or two, the US people will realize how unfortunate was the passage of the 22d amendment.
Judge Mr. Netanyahu by his actions, not his words. What has he done to limit the number of settlements in the West Bank? Nothing. In fact, he's allowed more and more of them. What has he done to bring about a two-state solution? Nothing. What has he done to improve relations with the United States? Nothing. Why is anyone surprised he'd appoint Avigdor Lieberman? They are two peas in a pod. When are Israeli voter going to wake up and elect someone else?
27
We should hear from Hillary Clinton and from Donald Trump their perspectives on the appointment of Mr. Lieberman to head the Israeli defense ministry. Mr. Netanyahu does not care about straining relations with Washington because he banks on Washington to do his bidding regardless of who runs Congress or occupies the White House.
This may not be wise policy, but when one thinks of Mr. Netanyahu, the word "wisdom" rarely springs to one's lips. Unless Mr. Netanyahu know something that nobody stateside even claims to know, control of Congress and occupancy of the presidency remains anybody's guess. A new US Government might not take kindly to an Israeli turn toward fascism.
At some point under its current administration, Israeli policy may become so truculently intolerable that the cash tube from Washington will dry up. It's tough for a nation of 8+ million to survive with absolutely zero friends in the world.
www.endthemadnessnow.org
This may not be wise policy, but when one thinks of Mr. Netanyahu, the word "wisdom" rarely springs to one's lips. Unless Mr. Netanyahu know something that nobody stateside even claims to know, control of Congress and occupancy of the presidency remains anybody's guess. A new US Government might not take kindly to an Israeli turn toward fascism.
At some point under its current administration, Israeli policy may become so truculently intolerable that the cash tube from Washington will dry up. It's tough for a nation of 8+ million to survive with absolutely zero friends in the world.
www.endthemadnessnow.org
10
The United States should make further aid to Israel conditional on advancements in the peace process with the Palestinians.
32
The only thing that is "baffling" is how the US continues, administration after administration, to be baffled by power dynamics in the Middle East.
4
The NYT editorial board is entitled to its view about the appropriateness of lack of such in offering the Defense Ministry to Avigdor Lieberman, but it should avoid a myopic, one-issue centered presentation of the facts.
Mr. Netanyahu is desperately trying to widen his coalition which at present is based on 61, a majority of 1. This was the point of his talks with Mr. Herzog and those talks fell through. Mr. Netanyahu may have offered the Defense Ministry to Mr. Lieberman, but it is part of negotiations with his party, Yisrael Beteinu. As of the typing of this comment, those negotiations are stuck and not about Palestinians or matters of defense but about pension rights for elderly Russian olim. Mr. Lieberman actually has a social reform platform and is not just a one issue party.
Naftali Bennett and Mishe Kahalon have effectively so far killed the negotiations with Yisrael Beteinu. As of last night Mr. Netanyahu had once again suggested that Mr. Herzog continue negotiations.
One might argue whether Mr. Lieberman is a good choice or a bad choice for Defense Minister, but as of this morning if negotiations do not conclude, he will not become Defense Minister, at least now.
As for Mr. Yaalon, the NYT has done a good job of providing him with a halo, but this too is a rather myopic view of Mr. Yaalon's performance as viewed here and not just on the right.
Is this any way to run a government? At least none of these politicians have stints in reality TV in their CVs.
Mr. Netanyahu is desperately trying to widen his coalition which at present is based on 61, a majority of 1. This was the point of his talks with Mr. Herzog and those talks fell through. Mr. Netanyahu may have offered the Defense Ministry to Mr. Lieberman, but it is part of negotiations with his party, Yisrael Beteinu. As of the typing of this comment, those negotiations are stuck and not about Palestinians or matters of defense but about pension rights for elderly Russian olim. Mr. Lieberman actually has a social reform platform and is not just a one issue party.
Naftali Bennett and Mishe Kahalon have effectively so far killed the negotiations with Yisrael Beteinu. As of last night Mr. Netanyahu had once again suggested that Mr. Herzog continue negotiations.
One might argue whether Mr. Lieberman is a good choice or a bad choice for Defense Minister, but as of this morning if negotiations do not conclude, he will not become Defense Minister, at least now.
As for Mr. Yaalon, the NYT has done a good job of providing him with a halo, but this too is a rather myopic view of Mr. Yaalon's performance as viewed here and not just on the right.
Is this any way to run a government? At least none of these politicians have stints in reality TV in their CVs.
8
But the NYT and its liberal minions only see Israel and its government thru the narrow focus of "Palestinian issues". They don't get that Israel is a country, and has to concern itself with the economy, pensions, schools, health care, taxes and even garbage collection. That officials are appointed and coalitions are formed over domestic issues as well seems to be unclear to the NYT.
9
I sure hope Obama (and his successor) take advantage of this nose-thumbinging to cut the payments to Israel going forward.
27
What's so baffling? This is who they are. Netanyahu running out the clock on Obama. Waiting for Hillary or Trump, either of whom will lavish billions more on the Israelis even than Obama.
10
By making this bar bouncer head of their military Israel had to know that this was bound to tick us off. You cannot expect to keep tweaking the nose of your benefactor who insanely just GIVES you money without the benefactor withdrawing it's most generous hand as if bitten.
19
For the past seven years, Palestinians have had the sympathy and support of an American President fully in sync with their desire to obtain a state of their own. And willing to take unusual political risks to help them achieve it.
Yet in that time we have heard virtually no words of compromise or appreciation from Mr. Abbas and none-at-all from Hamas for his efforts on their behalf.
Nor have we seen any real change in the determination of ordinary Palestinians to ultimately expel the Jewish people from their homeland.
Or efforts made by them to confront and displace their own corrupt political and religious leaders.
What we have seen instead are massive buildups of arms, the building of tunnels, stabbing attacks in Jerusalem, rockets launched at Israel from Gaza, the naming of day care centers in honor of vicious murderers and an enormous quantity of foul anti-Jewish propaganda directly aimed at their young people.
The Palestinians have on their front doorstep a neighbor who withdrew from Gaza a long time ago and who is immensely tired of war.
Making a final settlement with Israel will be hard for them and will not be accomplished overnight, but in the end it will prove to be a great deal quicker and easier than establishing a Palestinian state on the moon.
But that is where the Palestinian people and the Times with its profound misunderstanding of Mr. Netanyahu currently are heading.
Yet in that time we have heard virtually no words of compromise or appreciation from Mr. Abbas and none-at-all from Hamas for his efforts on their behalf.
Nor have we seen any real change in the determination of ordinary Palestinians to ultimately expel the Jewish people from their homeland.
Or efforts made by them to confront and displace their own corrupt political and religious leaders.
What we have seen instead are massive buildups of arms, the building of tunnels, stabbing attacks in Jerusalem, rockets launched at Israel from Gaza, the naming of day care centers in honor of vicious murderers and an enormous quantity of foul anti-Jewish propaganda directly aimed at their young people.
The Palestinians have on their front doorstep a neighbor who withdrew from Gaza a long time ago and who is immensely tired of war.
Making a final settlement with Israel will be hard for them and will not be accomplished overnight, but in the end it will prove to be a great deal quicker and easier than establishing a Palestinian state on the moon.
But that is where the Palestinian people and the Times with its profound misunderstanding of Mr. Netanyahu currently are heading.
14
When will America stop supporting all things Israeli? In the UN Security Council? With out financial and other support we aid and abet their actions and policies. We are enablers. I wish I could understand how this helps us. We will have few, if any, friends in the Arab world until we change our policies.
22
Wake up NYT. Israel is not interested in peace. They want the entire West Bank and the Palestinians pushed across the border into Jordan. Or dead. They do not care about international law or human decency. They will take what they want and the United States government and the Times editorial board will tut tut and do nothing to stop them. Especially when Hillary Clinton is president. America has enabled this catastrophe and bears significant responsibility for it. I often ask myself what things we do today that the people who follow us will find incomprehensible and immoral. Looking the other way while arming and diplomatically protecting Israel as it steals the land of the indigenous people of Palestine will definitely be one of them. Shame on you for your timidity.
84
The only baffling thing about your editorial was your choice of the word "baffling" in the title. After all these years of territorial expansion into lands that were supposed to have settlement freezes coupled with Netanyahu's gross disrespect for Mr. Obama, and his repeated choices to bite the hand that keeps him in power....WHY would you be surprised by his choice of Lieberman? Netanyahu has never done anything more than pay lip service to the idea of peace and a two state solution. It doesn't matter what Washington wants. Until it can unshackle itself from AIPACs death grip, the US will never be anything more than Israel's disregarded lackey.
30
Why do we GIVE money to Israel? I am not anti-israel but it seems to me that Israel has a good economy with a strong currency, quite a few billionaires and many millionaires according to Forbes, and it is no longer the backwater, startup nation of Holocaust survivors that it was when we started to give them aid all those years ago. If Israel needs money they should get it from their billionaires and millionaires, not from US.
We don't give money to France do we?
We don't give money to France do we?
21
In a way we do give money to France.
We fight the wars they should be fighting.
Israel fights her own wars.
Because there is a Israel there we do not need a military base there.
That saves us money.
We get more than we give.
We fight the wars they should be fighting.
Israel fights her own wars.
Because there is a Israel there we do not need a military base there.
That saves us money.
We get more than we give.
5
power corrupts and it started with Bibi a long time ago.
10
Who is the Palestinian leader with the authority and legitimacy to sign and enforce any treaty with Israel? It isn't the kleptocratic dictator Abbas who is in the 11th year of his 4 year term and has no control whatsoever over Gaza. And it cannot be anyone from the genocidal religous fanatics of Hamas, whose own Charter rejects the concept of negotiations. Can the NY Times identify that leader? Until it can, it should stop pretending that achieving peace is only up to Israel and accept the current reality: the Palestinian Arabs leaders do not want a state side-by-side with Israel, they want a state in place of Israel - and are prepared to sacrifice their people to that goal (while they skim off billions of aid dollars and live quite well)..
As to the intricacies (or craziness) of isreali politics, have the Editors already forgotten that Netanyahu wanted the Zionist Union to join the government coalition but its leader Herzog was blocked by Livini (the would-be leader) and Yacimovich (the past leader of Labour). That strikes me as a better example of putting your personal ambition ahead of the nation's good than anything Netanyahu is doing. And the Times also seems to have forgotten that when Ya'alon was loudly insulting Kerry over his messianic complex and desire for a Nobel Peace prize, it was Lieberman who rose publicly to Kerry's defense.
In a word, it is the editorial that is "baffling."
As to the intricacies (or craziness) of isreali politics, have the Editors already forgotten that Netanyahu wanted the Zionist Union to join the government coalition but its leader Herzog was blocked by Livini (the would-be leader) and Yacimovich (the past leader of Labour). That strikes me as a better example of putting your personal ambition ahead of the nation's good than anything Netanyahu is doing. And the Times also seems to have forgotten that when Ya'alon was loudly insulting Kerry over his messianic complex and desire for a Nobel Peace prize, it was Lieberman who rose publicly to Kerry's defense.
In a word, it is the editorial that is "baffling."
11
The Middle East dilemma was created in 1948 by the UN when it imperfectly gave a state to Jews by recognizing Israel, mostly at Palestinian expense, to make recompense for what the Germans did. If the Germans had not done what they did there would probably be no State of Israel today even though tens of thousands of Jews did live in the region.
What the UN should do now is IMPOSE reasonable borders upon the parties based upon where people actually live today, (not in 1948, 1967 or 2,000 years ago), and recognize a Palestinian state on the West Bank whether the parties like it or not. Gaza should be its own state. The UN should enforce these borders with an armed UN force until the parties, who will probably be kicking and screaming, get used to the idea.
Jews, like the settlers, who find themselves on the Palestinian side of the line can move if they don't like it, or stay and become citizens of the State of Palestine and enjoy all of the rights and privileges accorded to all of the citizens of the State of Palestine, the Palestinian charter banning Jews aside. Israel has Arabs, Palestine can have Jews. It's the same thing.
All people, INCLUDING JEWS, who lost property as a result of the UN's creation of Israel should be compensated as under the legal Doctrine of Eminent Domain. That's fair.
BTW, victors in war do not get to keep the other guys' territories. If they did, Germany, Japan and Italy would be our 51st, 52nd and 53rd states.
What the UN should do now is IMPOSE reasonable borders upon the parties based upon where people actually live today, (not in 1948, 1967 or 2,000 years ago), and recognize a Palestinian state on the West Bank whether the parties like it or not. Gaza should be its own state. The UN should enforce these borders with an armed UN force until the parties, who will probably be kicking and screaming, get used to the idea.
Jews, like the settlers, who find themselves on the Palestinian side of the line can move if they don't like it, or stay and become citizens of the State of Palestine and enjoy all of the rights and privileges accorded to all of the citizens of the State of Palestine, the Palestinian charter banning Jews aside. Israel has Arabs, Palestine can have Jews. It's the same thing.
All people, INCLUDING JEWS, who lost property as a result of the UN's creation of Israel should be compensated as under the legal Doctrine of Eminent Domain. That's fair.
BTW, victors in war do not get to keep the other guys' territories. If they did, Germany, Japan and Italy would be our 51st, 52nd and 53rd states.
10
You mean when the victors have morals.
The IDF will not tolerate Mr. Lieberman. It will force a show-down with the PM. If he refuses to back down, the IDF will take temporary control of the government until a new election is held.
Doubtful and probably dangerous. But a lovely dream!
4
On rare occasions, the Army, the most important institution in the State of Israel, has to intervene to save a failing democracy.
Of course the next president will support the pretense of an eventual two-state solution. That is what our disfunctional politics requires. But in reality this pretense allows Israel time to settle more Palestinian land and push its inhabitants into ever smaller disjoint enclaves, exactly as the newly appointed defense minister certainly wishes. That injustice is what our politics sadly requires. Just stop.
11
Netanyahu has revealed key aspects of his governing philosophy.
He is a master maneuverer, but despite his occasional feints to the left, he is, at his core, a right-wing hardliner. He has no interest in ending the occupation or providing justice for the Palestinians.
He is a master maneuverer, but despite his occasional feints to the left, he is, at his core, a right-wing hardliner. He has no interest in ending the occupation or providing justice for the Palestinians.
11
The editorial board gives Mr. Netanyahu too much credit for not agreeing with some of Mr. Lieberman's positions. In particular, Netanyahu believes only in a one-state solution and no Palestinian state. He'll feign otherwise, but his actions are clear. The U.S. should view this appointment as simply reinforcing Netanyahu's views.
12
The appointment of Avigdor Lieberman as the minister of defense for Israel serves two primary purposes: the undermining of U.S. foreign policy and starting a war with the Palestinians to justify another land grab for new Israeli settlements.
Netanyahu realises the United States has forfeited control of its Middle East foreign policy to Israel.
Netanyahu realises the United States has forfeited control of its Middle East foreign policy to Israel.
88
The undermining of US foreign policy, which has been happening with the creation the Syrian civil war, is now being taken public.
"Assad must go
Op-ed: It's time for Israel to take a stand on the war in Syria: Moral and strategic concerns dictate that we must oppose Assad and work to push him out of power.
Published: 05.18.16, 23:44 / Israel Opinion
Second of all, we need to enter a dialogue with the US about the need to harm assets that are important to the Assad regime as part of President Obama's promise to go up against the regime for using chemical weapons, and to enforce their restriction as a non-negotiable international norm.
Maj. Gen. (res.) Amos Yadlin is a former head of the IDF Military Intelligence Directorate (MID) and the current head of the Institute for National Security Studies (INSS) in Tel Aviv.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4804899,00.html
"Assad must go
Op-ed: It's time for Israel to take a stand on the war in Syria: Moral and strategic concerns dictate that we must oppose Assad and work to push him out of power.
Published: 05.18.16, 23:44 / Israel Opinion
Second of all, we need to enter a dialogue with the US about the need to harm assets that are important to the Assad regime as part of President Obama's promise to go up against the regime for using chemical weapons, and to enforce their restriction as a non-negotiable international norm.
Maj. Gen. (res.) Amos Yadlin is a former head of the IDF Military Intelligence Directorate (MID) and the current head of the Institute for National Security Studies (INSS) in Tel Aviv.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4804899,00.html
1
Netanyahu is hopeless. But he correctly calculates that nothing he does will stop support from the US and is counting on even more support once Obama leaves the White House. There will be no peace negotiations worthy of that name as long as the US is unwilling to use its considerable leverage to either force him to be more forthcoming or getting him out of office.
220
I'm sorry, but what is baffling about this? Sure, if you are hoping for peace and the resolution of the conflict between Israel and Palestine, then Mr. Lieberman is a terrible choice. But Netanyahu has proven time and again that he is not interested in peace. Instead, reactionaries like Netanyahu thrive off of conflict and war, just as reactionaries on the Palestinian side do.
The only way to a peaceful resolution between Israel and Palestine is for both sides to acknowledge that neither side has been entirely right or wrong, that both sides are going to have to compromise, and that any resolution will have to be based on Palestinians getting a state based on the 1967 borders while giving up the right of return. Unfortunately, the appointment of Mr. Lieberman suggests yet again that Netanyahu has no interest in pursuing such compromise that are needed to achieve peace.
https://www.facebook.com/WinningProgressive
The only way to a peaceful resolution between Israel and Palestine is for both sides to acknowledge that neither side has been entirely right or wrong, that both sides are going to have to compromise, and that any resolution will have to be based on Palestinians getting a state based on the 1967 borders while giving up the right of return. Unfortunately, the appointment of Mr. Lieberman suggests yet again that Netanyahu has no interest in pursuing such compromise that are needed to achieve peace.
https://www.facebook.com/WinningProgressive
155
You are one sided, what about the Palestinians? Are they dying for the purpose of peace? Open your eyes. What walks like a duck and looks like a duck is a duck.
3
What is baffling? It is win-win for Netanyahu. The universal neo-con hysteria about Trump shows that they know he will change Mideast-Israel policy. Netanyahu will be gone if Trump wins. It doesn't matter who Netanyahu appoints Hillary is the leading neo-con at the top of the American system. She is happy with Lieberman, but prefers that he be appointed now so she isn't blamed. If she wins, Netanyahu was the right person in plck.
43
Fascinating that you know so much about what Hillary secretly thinks. Looking forward to your future revelations, they will surely be equally illuminating.
9
And yet, all Netanyahu is accomplishing is turning the entire world against Israel. In the long run, there are no politics, no maneuvering, no strategy. There is only hatred against the Jewish State, not because it is the Jewish State, but because it knows only recklessness and killing. If this right-wing bigot is allowed to conduct himself any way he wants and if continues to get all of the money out of the U.S. he demands, there is no stopping the eventual destruction of Israel. How can it be any other way?
14
Correction.
Israel is an Arab, Christian, Jewish state.
Israel is an Arab, Christian, Jewish state.
1
When VP Biden landed in Israel, he was greeted with the announcement of huge settlement expansion. For a time, each US official landing is Israel was greeted the same way, with another announcement.
This is more of that behavior. Netanyahu no doubt has several motives, but the message to the Americans is one of those motives.
It isn't "baffling." It is just a thumb in our eye. On purpose. Again.
This is more of that behavior. Netanyahu no doubt has several motives, but the message to the Americans is one of those motives.
It isn't "baffling." It is just a thumb in our eye. On purpose. Again.
477
"Announcement of huge settlement expansion".
Ironically, that is all it was, an "announcement", the same one over and over again. There is no limit to how often one can announce the same thing. As for "huge", everything is relative, even when it is just an announcement.
Ironically, that is all it was, an "announcement", the same one over and over again. There is no limit to how often one can announce the same thing. As for "huge", everything is relative, even when it is just an announcement.
7
It is only a thumb in the eye of Americans who hate Israel.
4
It’s one thing to malign Mr. Netanyahu as you repeatedly do in this space, but quite another to drag General Buford along with you.
Buford, of course, was a Civil War hero and eminent military strategist who was promoted to the rank of major general on his death-bed by none-other-than President Lincoln.
Reading your sorry, blatantly false comment here today about “huge” settlement expansions must surely have sent the poor man spinning in his grave. Settlement expansions in Israel these days take years to accomplish, are frequently abandoned shortly after being announced and typically involve minor amounts of land in areas already inhabited by Jews that everyone knows will be going to Israel in any conceivable peace settlement. Moreover, many of these are vertical apartment-house expansions, meaning that hardly any new land is being utilized at all.
Virtually all of this land, of course, would have been free for the taking by the Palestinians in 1948 when it was offered to them by the United Nations and for many years afterwards when it was repeatedly offered to them by Israel during peace discussions.
Vice-President Biden, of course, played a key role in selling the President’s hideous nuclear deal and naturally feels some resentment towards Mr. Netanyahu for presenting cogent arguments against it, more of which are now being revealed as accurate with each passing day.
http://www.timesofisrael.com/iranian-commander-we-can-destroy-israel-in-...
Buford, of course, was a Civil War hero and eminent military strategist who was promoted to the rank of major general on his death-bed by none-other-than President Lincoln.
Reading your sorry, blatantly false comment here today about “huge” settlement expansions must surely have sent the poor man spinning in his grave. Settlement expansions in Israel these days take years to accomplish, are frequently abandoned shortly after being announced and typically involve minor amounts of land in areas already inhabited by Jews that everyone knows will be going to Israel in any conceivable peace settlement. Moreover, many of these are vertical apartment-house expansions, meaning that hardly any new land is being utilized at all.
Virtually all of this land, of course, would have been free for the taking by the Palestinians in 1948 when it was offered to them by the United Nations and for many years afterwards when it was repeatedly offered to them by Israel during peace discussions.
Vice-President Biden, of course, played a key role in selling the President’s hideous nuclear deal and naturally feels some resentment towards Mr. Netanyahu for presenting cogent arguments against it, more of which are now being revealed as accurate with each passing day.
http://www.timesofisrael.com/iranian-commander-we-can-destroy-israel-in-...
14
Neither goal can be achieved while the region is at peace.