Excuse me? Did you say you identify with Noah, Noah is me...did I read that correctly? The whole writers room feels that way?
Would you really want to be identified as Noah? Sounds like the writers' room needs serious therapy.
Would you really want to be identified as Noah? Sounds like the writers' room needs serious therapy.
I think it's safe to assume that the writers are not all having affairs and snorting coca in during their meetings. I think what Sarah is getting at is that the insecurities and drive that Noah feels and grapples with are what the writers identify with. The idea of what does it take to tap into your creativity and how examining the shadow side of life and the shadows in yourself may be the key to unlocking that creativity. I think that is why art is so important and interesting - it allows us to admit our darkness and imagine a reality where we can play out the consequences of where that darkness might lead us. We all have darkness in us and that's why there are so many people who can relate to this show - because it's honest and doesn't tip toe around the parts of ourselves that we are uncomfortable with. And a lot of the questions that are posed to Noah on his book I can imagine the writers may be asking themselves. Are they creating a classic story that will stand the test of time or just the next passing titillation. To me this story is gold and a beautiful mirror held up to society that is told with enough compassion, warmth and honesty that it allows you to accept the truths in it without getting defensive. And it's clearly thought-provoking. I think Sarah and the writers are incredibly brave and taleneed for showcasing these issues.
3
Ha! What a funny comment. Noah is human. As she points out in the interview, we don't like Noah and can't justify or forgive his transgressions because he hasn't, until this evening's episode, given us any insight into what his experiences are and what drives him from an emotional baggage standpoint. I agree that Noah is unsavory, but I also see him as human, and after tonight, I have more of an understanding of who he is and why he does what he does. He is flawed, like all of us. I can't come to any kind of agreement with him because I don't share much moral common ground with him. But I do know some people like him... And I like them despite their imperfections and flaws.
1
Ill sign on as another Treem /Levi sycophant. Their style of meticulous character definition and development, their mastery of engrossing story telling, and their ability to create intensely personal yet culturally totemic plot and dialogue has transformed dramatic television. I see it as a form of mass psychotherapy and societal reverie that transports the viewer out of their present state of mind and always promises a rich emotional viewing experience. Just the best there is.
9
This Season better get interesting, real fast. And I suggest they keep up Season 1 on Showtime or Showtime may lose subscribers. After all, the novelty of The Affair has worn off.
1
I like the show a lot. But my wife and I wonder whether the writers intended to make us laugh when we hear passages from Noah's novel. They are awful! Stilted, pretentious porn. No precise description. Lots of silly pronouncements. The biggest mystery in the show is how he got published.
4
I think it's intended this way and that The writers did not intend for us to believe that Descent was anything other than the 51st Shade of Gray.
PLESE bring back IN TREATMENT!
8
It's kind of absurd to suggest that because a character has obvious external forces at play in their life, their journey makes more sense to the viewer. Most people have a rich inner life, a continual mental dialogue that is preoccupied with the challanges they grapple with daily - not external forces but an ongoing inner life based around self worth, existential meaning and connection. So Noah's narrative is no less meaningful. He has a backstory. We know that he's viewed by his family as someone who always perceived himself as most deserving, and better than. As for the indictment of marital sex in the series, au contraire, married sex is only as limited as the couple involved . If anything, the intimate space of marriage allows one to be anyone, do anything, experiment in any way with one another, and still feel beautifully human. After all, animals have sex too, and humping against a tree isn't a great accomplishment! Noah was quite clearly bored in his marriage, frustrated by the demands of parenthood and his professional ambitions. He was long past appreciating his wife, and poised in just the right place for a little fantasy and excitement made possible by the very accommodating Alison. Despite all the conflict and intrigue, I'm expecting the writers to stay with the original theme, in the end rewarding 'true love's kiss', by giving them a happy ever after... Hopefully the wronged spouse get a little of that too.
4
"She was sex, the very definition of it. She was the reason the word was invented." Really? Is it just me or does it seem as though Alison is never actually enjoying herself during sex? I guess this would be another indication of Noah being wrapped up in his own delusional fantasy of Alison, the temptress; Alison, the siren (when all the viewer sees is Alison, the clinically depressed). If I were her, I'd run a mile! Oh and I hope she's pregnant with Cole's baby.
5
I don't get what the writers identify with about Noah. And I do not see what keeps Noah and Alison together as they are constantly in conflict. The actors are terrific but I can't stand Noah's selfishness and Alison's dreary, depressed attitude. I loved Helen's scene drinking , going to the hair salon and then getting arrested! Helen has grown on me more and more as has Cole. LOVE THE SHOW!
5
I can understand Noal/Alison staying together - it might feel that it has cheapened the damage done to their other relationships if they just give up on the new one.
If I'm not mistaken, we haven't been told much of anything about Noah's parents or siblings (if any). The only hint we have of his past is that his mother had MS...but we have no idea how this affected him, if at all. In contrast, we have a great deal of information about Helen's, Alison's and Cole's family dynamics. We can see these three in the context of their earliest influences. Noah seems to me to exist in a kind of human development vacuum. Perhaps this is why I find it difficult to generate any empathy or understanding for him. The other three are made more human by our knowing where they came from. Noah, in contrast, seems to be sui generis, which automatically renders him cold, remote and unknowable.
4
emiriamd, did you see episode 4? We meet Noah's sister and family, and Noah's father in that episode. I agree that Noah is mostly unreadable and unsympathetic though.
I seriously doubt that Noah likes women. Noah needs a vulnerable woman to control and dominate, thereby making Noah feel masculine. Noah probably likes the newest of the relationship, when he is seen as prince charming. Once Noah's warts are exposed and the truth of who he really is becomes apparent, Noah becomes distant, thoughtless and cruel to the woman he professes to love. First Helen and now Alison. Noah is a user. That is why Noah could live off Helen's trust fund, his in-laws handouts and now it appears, Alison's house money.
Helen is by far the most fascinating character. Her mother is my mother, so I understand their relationship perfectly. The stories that center around Helen and Cole's point of views are the most interesting to watch. I hope the writers will focus more on their story lines.
I enjoy watching The Affair, but I really loved In Treatment. Quality writing for adults longing for something worthy to watch on TV. The writers do not disappoint. Thank you.
Helen is by far the most fascinating character. Her mother is my mother, so I understand their relationship perfectly. The stories that center around Helen and Cole's point of views are the most interesting to watch. I hope the writers will focus more on their story lines.
I enjoy watching The Affair, but I really loved In Treatment. Quality writing for adults longing for something worthy to watch on TV. The writers do not disappoint. Thank you.
20
Helen is somewhat to blame for Noah's decision to leave the marriage. Helen treated him less than masculine. She defended him to her parents in season one. However, every chance she had to demonstrate her authority over Noah, she did; even in front of the children. Insofar as Cole being blameless, it would be hard for any mother to say to the alleged father of their child, and husband, "Watch him. I am going to get a blanket," and come back three minutes later to find her son drowned. So, in essence, Helen and Cole both contributed to the demise of their relationships with Noah and Alison, their respective spouses. It's not all about sex.
A mother can't ask a father to watch their own child? Really?
1
PrairieFlax, I think IPR meant that it would be difficult for any parent to *bear* having left their child in the coparent's care for just three minutes... only to find them drowned.
If Cole and Helen are indeed considered to be blamed, at least in part, for the demise of their marriages, why did Noah and Alison not leave them sooner, before they found "replacement" spouses? Why did they stay with their spouses ONLY until something "better" --at least for the moment--came along. How bad could things have been? People have affairs all the time and what's really sad is that we aren't taught that if things aren't working out, it's OK, and HEALTHY to be alone. Don't stay with your spouse if things are bad just because you don't want to be alone.
i think the reason why most viewers loathe Noah is that there is so little about him to make anyone like him, and I was surprised here to read that your team of writers identify most strongly with him over the other 3 characters. Here is the 25-cent assessment of this guy - handsome college student gets the girl whom others want, who is also lovely and a trust-fund baby to boot. So, he's hit the jackpot. Both intelligent, they have a lush-life in the high-end part of Brooklyn, he has a job, 4 healthy (at least from the start) kids.
Only chink in the armour for him is his cloying-horrible in-laws, with whom he acts like a spoiled-petulant child, much like his own kids act toward him. He resents them, but not enough to stop taking their hand-outs. Wonder how this family would have turned out if they lived on his teacher's salary in a different place. But Noah cannot resist the lush life.
So now, he feels unfulfilled - he takes a lover and throws all of us misplaced resentment for not devoting himself to his writing and his family and his teaching onto this new love. Without taking into regard any of the back-story of his new lover (at least not until he has the hospital episode w/ Trevor), he thrusts himself and his dreams and his anger into this new relationship, without thinking farther ahead than the next meal. Defies all of the supposed-intelligence and vision that might have drawn Helen to him back in their youth.
Only chink in the armour for him is his cloying-horrible in-laws, with whom he acts like a spoiled-petulant child, much like his own kids act toward him. He resents them, but not enough to stop taking their hand-outs. Wonder how this family would have turned out if they lived on his teacher's salary in a different place. But Noah cannot resist the lush life.
So now, he feels unfulfilled - he takes a lover and throws all of us misplaced resentment for not devoting himself to his writing and his family and his teaching onto this new love. Without taking into regard any of the back-story of his new lover (at least not until he has the hospital episode w/ Trevor), he thrusts himself and his dreams and his anger into this new relationship, without thinking farther ahead than the next meal. Defies all of the supposed-intelligence and vision that might have drawn Helen to him back in their youth.
13
Wanted to shout out to Sarah Treem how much I loved "In Treatment"!
Helen's a great character. I'd watch her doing the laundry, flossing her teeth.
Re: who killed Scotty. My bet is on Luisa because Scotty was blackmailing her into sex so that he wouldn't report her illegal status. Now there's a motive.
Helen's a great character. I'd watch her doing the laundry, flossing her teeth.
Re: who killed Scotty. My bet is on Luisa because Scotty was blackmailing her into sex so that he wouldn't report her illegal status. Now there's a motive.
4
The "fly in the ointment" in this theory is that Scotty gets killed AFTER Cole marries Luisa, which would eliminate any possibility of blackmail over immigration status.
The "fly in the ointment" in the theory is that Scotty is killed AFTER the wedding of Cole and Luisa, which would render impossible any blackmail issues over immigration status. She may well have done it for another reason, maybe because Scotty was going to tell Cole that Joanie is his baby..... Which might shake the foundation of their relationship and send him back to Alison. This is plausible especially since she announced that she is unable to have children herself.
1
It's interesting that the writers see Alison as having unleashed the creative in Noah. Notwithstanding the implication of the limits of his imagination; it always seemed like Noah had to break out of the narrow confines of domesticity in order to reconnect with his creative voice. Alison appeared to be a catalyst, a blank canvas onto which Noah was able to impose himself so that in a sense he unleashed himself, because Alison as a character doesn't have the energy, intelligence or personality to inspire. Helen understands Noah and was able to temper his shadow; all of his hubris and insecurity but it meant that his creativity was also stifled. Here's the thing, we take ourselves into the world of loss. Everything you ever were is in hyperbole: the best and the worst. Alison wasn't made unstable, weak and deceitful by grief, that is who she already was. My interest lies in The Affair's commentary on marriage in an increasingly shallow, self serving society that operates on planned obsolescence. Everything and everyone is replaceable. The characters that most seem to be 'living' a buldingsroman are the spurned spouses who exhibit more strength of character and self awareness than the tepid lovebirds. Increasingly, even Noah and Alison's lovemaking is a soulless, desperate physical activity with no hint of the undying, unbridled love they destroyed their families for. Mazaltov Ms Treem for creating a cast of characters over which we can all obsess!
18
While I respect your opinion I couldn't disagree with you more regarding.g Alison. Whereas you find her "weak, deceitful and unstable" I find her strong, honest and grounded. Strong...because losing a child and carrying around guilt is about as devastating as it can get. Yet she managed to carry on, hold her waitress job, care enough about others whether it was Noahs child choking in the diner or taking archiving care of her grandmother...from loving.g visits to overseeing every bit of her medical care. Though emotionAlly bereft...she carried on. Deceitful? No more so than Noah, Helen's father and probably more than half the people who've ever existed. Unstable? Perhaps you're confusingly her with Helen whose meltdown had her run.Bing thru the streets with peroxide foil in her hair and almost hurting her child while freaking out in her car.
Alison uninspiring? She's full of angst...despair...wrapped in a delicate, sensual exterior. Able to evoke compassion, a womanly yet sometimes childlike beauty..a generous nature. I can see why Noah unlocked his writers block in her aura...surrounded by beaches and freedom...released from the rantings and confinement of urban prison...made so by a wife still controlled by her rich parents who then crushed Noah 's soul and spirit. And then there's Cole...I love Cole....
Alison uninspiring? She's full of angst...despair...wrapped in a delicate, sensual exterior. Able to evoke compassion, a womanly yet sometimes childlike beauty..a generous nature. I can see why Noah unlocked his writers block in her aura...surrounded by beaches and freedom...released from the rantings and confinement of urban prison...made so by a wife still controlled by her rich parents who then crushed Noah 's soul and spirit. And then there's Cole...I love Cole....
7
What Alison did was survive. I do not see her as particularly strong, I see her as a deceitful and manipulative woman. She uses her wounded little girl act to seduce most every male character on the show. She is an opportunistic Jezebel.
2
Great show, but you should have had Sebastian Junger during his cameo, beat the hell out of Noah.
12
Noah's a self-centered, self-indulgent jerk and a snob. His fancy tastes and expensive lifestyle came to him through the wife he resents. This is not a criticism of the writing--he's a strikingly authentic character. In fact, he closely resembles several men I know who occupy the same social, educational and cultural position. I hate their guts, too.
19
What I find so fascinating about Noah is that he is 100% sure that his choices are the "righteous" choices. He really believes he is of better character than Helen's, her parents, the Lockharts. He never seems to second guess his choices at all.
I think many heterosexual men are that way in real life. In fact I work for one right now, but I digress.
It is a great show, and this past week's episode was stellar to me.
I think many heterosexual men are that way in real life. In fact I work for one right now, but I digress.
It is a great show, and this past week's episode was stellar to me.
9
I agree with your assessment and I find the show gets better with each episode. Also, while we are on the subject, the NYT reviewer runs an excellent and engaging discussion each week which has greatly enhanced my experience of viewing this show. Kudos to Mike Hale!
1
It's currently the finest drama on television. A smart brave writing team batted away the critics after Season One and have gone from strength to strength.
6
Ms. Chaney - Why no comments section in your The Leftovers recap this week?
It was an oversight. We <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/15/arts/television/the-leftovers-season-2...">turned them on</a>, thanks.
1
Thank you.
Astrid
Astrid
I, too, have been struggling to sympathize with Noah, and mainly have failed. Perhaps our difficulty with liking him is another aspect of its being a very adult series. I do sympathize with his situation while married to Helen. His in-laws were constantly putting him down, to his face and to Helen, using their money to exert control. Helen allowed this, and neither stood up for Noah nor told him that she was prepared to give up their dependent life in order to have a fully balanced marriage with him. They all conspired to emasculate him. The atmosphere in that house on Montauk was suffocating; I'm not surprised by the escape route he took. My favorite moment - at which I cheered out loud - was when Helen finally stood up to her mother and threw her out. (And yes, I speak from the experience of enduring parents who were both controlling and manipulating even without massive amounts of money.)
Alison is clearly, still, very fragile. It's painful to see how slowly she is recovering from the loss of her child, for which she blames herself. We're unreasonable to expect that this wound will ever fully heal.
I'm grateful that you've allowed Helen and Cole to develop into more complex characters and grateful that you force us to confront the fact that lives and choices are not as black and white as we might wish them to be.