The slur supporters are quick to point out how the word embodies some dopey mythos they've pinned on a team or school they favor. Of course this is not equal to the real history of real people who are now asking for a small measure of grace. Holstering the r word is literally the least users can do.
3
In the last picture--how embarrassing that they're using the slogan "NOH8" which promotes marriage, gender and human equality to defend their racism. So wrong. I hope LHS makes the right decision and sets an example for other teams.
2
The Vikings, Fighting Irish, Cowboys, and others indeed portray caricatures and stereotypes, which some people do find offensive. In that sense, they share a basic commonality with Native mascots and team names.Those with primarily Viking or Irish descent, after all, can still benefit from the privilege of having light skin. And there are no masses of Irish Americans living on reservations, no hordes of people with Viking descent fighting to retain their languages and ways of life.
Furthermore, even though team names and mascots like the Fighting Irish, Vikings, Cowboys, and others may indeed be hurtful and offensive, a very real problem that needs to be taken seriously, their use does not activate or maintain the same historical legacy of genocide against the Native American Indian.Trying to compare them is not a valid argument.
Furthermore, even though team names and mascots like the Fighting Irish, Vikings, Cowboys, and others may indeed be hurtful and offensive, a very real problem that needs to be taken seriously, their use does not activate or maintain the same historical legacy of genocide against the Native American Indian.Trying to compare them is not a valid argument.
5
There's an easy part to this: if significant numbers of Native Americans feel slandered or wounded by a the existence of a mascot ornamental to the recreational leisure of the descendants of those who drove them off the land, we should just change the mascot. To insist on maintaining it is to compound injury with insult.
But what about the (many) cases where the name in question is less ugly-sounding than "Redskins?" And what if there's no actual wounded party stepping forward to express an actual hurt? The next town over to where I live has a neighborhood whose streets are named for various tribes -- Mohawk St, Iroquois Ave, and so on. Must all of those names be changed, merely because non-Native Americans have no right to use them? Is the use, by Americans of European descent, of ANY Indian name in any context prima facie illegitimate? That question is not so simple.
But what about the (many) cases where the name in question is less ugly-sounding than "Redskins?" And what if there's no actual wounded party stepping forward to express an actual hurt? The next town over to where I live has a neighborhood whose streets are named for various tribes -- Mohawk St, Iroquois Ave, and so on. Must all of those names be changed, merely because non-Native Americans have no right to use them? Is the use, by Americans of European descent, of ANY Indian name in any context prima facie illegitimate? That question is not so simple.
1
A white man and an elderly Native man white guy decided to ask him: “What do you think about Indian mascots?” The Native elder responded, “Here’s what you’ve got to understand. When you look at black you see ghosts of all the slavery and the hangings and chains. When you look at Jews, you see ghosts of all those bodies piled up in death camps.“But when you look at us you don’t see the ghosts of the little babies with their heads smashed in by rifle butts at the Big Hole, or the old folks dying by the side of the trail on the way to Oklahoma while their families cried and tried to make them comfortable, or the dead mothers at Wounded Knee or the little kids at Sand Creek who were shot for target practice. You don’t see any ghosts at all. “Instead you see casinos and drunks and junk cars and shacks. “Well, we see those ghosts. And they make our hearts sad and they hurt our little children. And when we try to say something, you tell us, ‘Get over it. This is America. Look at the American dream.’ But as long as you’re calling us Redskins and doing tomahawk chops, we can’t look at the American dream, because those things remind us that we are not real human beings to you. And when people aren’t humans, you can turn them into slaves or kill six million of them or shoot them down with Hotchkiss guns and throw them into mass graves at Wounded Knee. “No, we’re not looking at the American dream. And why should we? We still haven’t woken up from the American nightmare. -Kent Newburn
8
As a Native American Indian with Cherokee Descent. the Name Redskin is tied to a legacy of genocide to the Native American Race. for years many groups including the National Education Association is against using the term redskin because it stereotypes and dehumanize the Native American Indian in which, The name Redskin name does. There are now fewer than 800 uses of Native American names, images, and mascots at all levels of sports, down from more than 3,000 in the early 1970s. So while it’s easy to find schools like Lancaster Central High School that want to keep the name, it’s just as easy to find those like Capitol Hill High School in Oklahoma in December 2014 to quit using it. So be on the right side of history Lancaster, for all the Native American Indians who feel otherwise.
8
It's a shame there aren't more native Americans to speak out about this issue. I wonder what happened to all of them? Oh yeah, that racist genocide thing we started not long after we got here....
2
Good point.
We were almost nearly wiped out by the turn of the century.
North American Indian population from an estimated 12 million in 1500 to barely 237,000 in 1900 represents a "vast genocide" . . The most sustained on record." By the end of the 19th century, writes David E. Stannard, a historian at the University of Hawaii, native Americans had undergone the"worst human holocaust the world had ever witnessed, roaring across two continents non-stop for four centuries and consuming the lives of countless tens of millions of people.The genocidal actions of Columbus and other Europeans who followed in his footsteps (e.g. Cortes, DeSoto, Pizarro, et al) can be classified into two general categories:
We were almost nearly wiped out by the turn of the century.
North American Indian population from an estimated 12 million in 1500 to barely 237,000 in 1900 represents a "vast genocide" . . The most sustained on record." By the end of the 19th century, writes David E. Stannard, a historian at the University of Hawaii, native Americans had undergone the"worst human holocaust the world had ever witnessed, roaring across two continents non-stop for four centuries and consuming the lives of countless tens of millions of people.The genocidal actions of Columbus and other Europeans who followed in his footsteps (e.g. Cortes, DeSoto, Pizarro, et al) can be classified into two general categories:
Custer had Indian Scouts too... Don't think about it too hard
1
And the Nazis had capos in the extermination camps. You'll always find members of a minority who collaborate with their oppressors. I'm not sure what your point is.
1
Image what the world be like if hundreds of U S citizens came out in the freezing rain for things that really mattered. We likely wouldn't have the level of problems of racism, homophobia, climate disasters, war, racial and sexual violence... We'd have the wonderful world Louie Armstrong sang about.
1
Mark 'One Wolf' Yancey is not American Indian. His legal name is Mark E. Yancey. People in the Native community have been aware of this individual for awhile and his fraudulent claims to being Native. According to his genealogical records, he is Asian, European, and African-American. His paternal grandparents are Japanese (grandmother) and African-American and European (grandfather) His paternal grandparents are and admixture of European and African-American. There is no indication of Native lineage in his ancestry.
1
The "litmus test" here is very simple: Are Native Americans your neighbors? When your neighbors are upset or uncomfortable about something, even if it's something you don't think is a big deal, don't you try to make your neighbors feel better? Do you stand there in your back yard arguing your head off with them about whether or not they "should" be upset, or do you try to remain on good terms with them and just... try to do what they ask of you?
Most Americans would say, yeah, they try to be good neighbors -- particularly when their neighbors rarely speak up about anything they do.
There are always boorish, selfish idiots who prefer to argue their neighbors down in cases like this, but most Americans don't act like this, at least not in a knee-jerk way.
Most Americans would say, yeah, they try to be good neighbors -- particularly when their neighbors rarely speak up about anything they do.
There are always boorish, selfish idiots who prefer to argue their neighbors down in cases like this, but most Americans don't act like this, at least not in a knee-jerk way.
5
A lot of these people obviously peaked in high school. All I will say is that I have a life long friend who is a Mohawk, he is very well educated in his own history. Though he is a nurse and very polite and respectful, if you were to call him a Redskin, he would most likely break your nose or at least loosen a few teeth. For him the term is derogatory.
Incidentally, my Alma Maters team name was the Violets. When your football team is named after a flower, you gotta be tough.
Incidentally, my Alma Maters team name was the Violets. When your football team is named after a flower, you gotta be tough.
6
When this guy says "changing the name would be changing the whole tradition of the school" -- what tradition is he talking about? Not teaching, not education... just sports, with costumed mascots and colorful banners
Does anyone still think that schools need good teachers and books -- not football coaches and mascots?
Does anyone still think that schools need good teachers and books -- not football coaches and mascots?
1
The Times should just stop using 'the name of that team in DC' or pick one of their own. Only without publicity, and the money that follows, will change be enacted by the NFL.
Multiple investigations into Mark One Wolf Yancy suggest that he has no valid membership in a Native American tribe, but rather is sponsored by Dan Snyder's astroturf groups. I know this is a minor aspect of a well-written article, but please be more cautious in your fact checking!
5
But it's a tradition that stretches all the way back to 60 years, practically to the beginning of civilization! How can we just change such age-old and important traditions?!
What's that? We can just choose another name and then get used to it? Oh. Kk. Nvm.
What's that? We can just choose another name and then get used to it? Oh. Kk. Nvm.
3
This debate has gone on forever.
Not a Native American myself, perhaps my opinion doesn't count.
I say make up your mind already, but if you deep six the name Redskins, I don't think their should be any expectation that any reference to Native American be made in the new name.
The Washington Bullets basketball team was pressured into changing its name to Washington Wizards.
So silly at this point.
Not a Native American myself, perhaps my opinion doesn't count.
I say make up your mind already, but if you deep six the name Redskins, I don't think their should be any expectation that any reference to Native American be made in the new name.
The Washington Bullets basketball team was pressured into changing its name to Washington Wizards.
So silly at this point.
2
My college mascot is an anthropomorphic sphere in a baseball cap named Otto - He's not quite an orange, not quite a basketball and not much of anything symbolic of Syracuse. The Snowmen, Mr. Slushy, The Freeze, The Severe Overcast or the Heavy Drinking Frat Boy would all be much more apt mascots of SU.
Otto replaced the original SU Saltine Warrior way before my time and has stood as an early testament to the fact that you can eliminate any hint of bigotry from your mascot.
Even better yet, why not eliminate mascots (with the exception of Mr. & Mrs. Met, and the Philly Fanatic because they are awesome)?
Could a school not just have their school name printed on their jerseys?
Otto replaced the original SU Saltine Warrior way before my time and has stood as an early testament to the fact that you can eliminate any hint of bigotry from your mascot.
Even better yet, why not eliminate mascots (with the exception of Mr. & Mrs. Met, and the Philly Fanatic because they are awesome)?
Could a school not just have their school name printed on their jerseys?
Thinking back to my days in high school (we were Marauders) I can understand how a student with barely a decade of historical perspective might think a name change would being about the end of the world, but for adults to cling to a name that is only 62 years old is pathetic.
4
This is the world we live in. People are very sensitive, even when they are not being insulted, just at any reference to them. What team would have a name that they thought was not inspirational? On the other hand, if someone suggested the NY Jews or the Washington Blackskins, most people would go absolutely nuts. Why, because there would be no tradition of the name used to convey positive attributes, just a feeling of mockery.
Maybe I and others, including some Indians, who do not see the name as offensive and meant to be positive - like, say, "the Gladiators." But, at the end of the day, were there enough American Indians to weigh in, most everyone would demand that the name be changed. Certainly the NFL would end the name Redskins. If we recognize that and consider that it upsets enough people, why not change it? Aren't there another team - then falls team names the Braves, the Chiefs, the Black Hawks, etc. Things change.
It's up to the community, but they have to expect fall out if they retain it.
Maybe I and others, including some Indians, who do not see the name as offensive and meant to be positive - like, say, "the Gladiators." But, at the end of the day, were there enough American Indians to weigh in, most everyone would demand that the name be changed. Certainly the NFL would end the name Redskins. If we recognize that and consider that it upsets enough people, why not change it? Aren't there another team - then falls team names the Braves, the Chiefs, the Black Hawks, etc. Things change.
It's up to the community, but they have to expect fall out if they retain it.
3
If you really think the name Redsk*n is not insulting, go to any establishment with Native American Indians and Yell out the name, Redsk*n . I can assure you, you will not walk out alive.
3
I wouldn't, of course, Tomahawk, but, I wouldn't go to a synagogue and yell out - "Jews" either even though that is the actual name for their people because they could take it for a slur, nor go to a bar with blacks or whites and scream blackskins or whiteskins out, to mosque, etc., because of course people would see it as aggressive. But, I like the saying even a dog knows he difference between being kicked and being stumbled over.
My point is these things are not rational; they are emotional. These teams aren't mocking themselves. They are celebrating a tradition of martial prowess, like with Vikings. We also still use black and white without -skin, but no longer use - yellow. At one time it was not considered a slur. Now it is. Some people, of course, don't think that black is appropriate and prefer African-American, which many other people, including myself, do not because it implies classes of Americans. Why should any person whose family has been here 3 or 4 times longer than most people's families, hyphenate their name when we are a country mostly made up of the descendants of immigrants? And, as I can tell from the article, some Native-Americans also don't mind the term Redskins. I haven't read studies in a long time, so I don't know if it is even a majority who do mind.
Besides all that, I hope you read my whole comment (though, I see some cut and paste errors on rereading - sorry) rather than just be insulted.
My point is these things are not rational; they are emotional. These teams aren't mocking themselves. They are celebrating a tradition of martial prowess, like with Vikings. We also still use black and white without -skin, but no longer use - yellow. At one time it was not considered a slur. Now it is. Some people, of course, don't think that black is appropriate and prefer African-American, which many other people, including myself, do not because it implies classes of Americans. Why should any person whose family has been here 3 or 4 times longer than most people's families, hyphenate their name when we are a country mostly made up of the descendants of immigrants? And, as I can tell from the article, some Native-Americans also don't mind the term Redskins. I haven't read studies in a long time, so I don't know if it is even a majority who do mind.
Besides all that, I hope you read my whole comment (though, I see some cut and paste errors on rereading - sorry) rather than just be insulted.
If only more people were aware of Native American history.
Our baseball team, the Braves, has a very loyal fan base and it is even getting a new stadium-- from downtown to the suburbs.
I don't bet on sports, but I would be willing to bet that the majority of the Brave's fans no nothing about Georgia and its surrounding states history involving the Cherokee, Chickasaw, Choctaw, Muscogee, Seminole and Creek Nations forced removal from the Southeast to Oklahoma (Indian Territory). It is known as the "Trail of Tears". Look it up, Brave's fans.
Our baseball team, the Braves, has a very loyal fan base and it is even getting a new stadium-- from downtown to the suburbs.
I don't bet on sports, but I would be willing to bet that the majority of the Brave's fans no nothing about Georgia and its surrounding states history involving the Cherokee, Chickasaw, Choctaw, Muscogee, Seminole and Creek Nations forced removal from the Southeast to Oklahoma (Indian Territory). It is known as the "Trail of Tears". Look it up, Brave's fans.
2
Derogatory names and symbols are wider than just "redskins." One of the most prominent is Notre Dame's "Fighting Irish" ... with the logo of the funny little irishman with his fists up.
I haven't heard any swelling outrage from the Irish over that stereotype.
I haven't heard any swelling outrage from the Irish over that stereotype.
2
If the Irish are offended, let THEM argue their case. Native Americans ARE offended. Don't step on their feet and tell them whether it should hurt..
4
As the fighting Irish might offend the Irish people. It does not carry the legacy of genocide like the Redsk*n name does to the Native American Indian. trying to compare it to the Redsk*n is not a valid argument.
Keep the name, but change the image to that of the less-controversial potato of the same name.
16
That's brilliant!
I wonder if the parents in this community might feel differently if they thought about how this might be perceived during the college admissions process. In today's competitive admissions environment, I would be extremely hesitant to put something like "Captain of the Lancaster Central High Redskins Volleyball Team" on my college application. No matter how much I valued my school's pride and traditions, I cannot imagine any student feeling confident in an application that included a blatant and explicit racist slur.
4
Captain of the Volleyball Team - BOOM problem solved.
As if anyone spends more than 10 seconds looking at college applications
As if anyone spends more than 10 seconds looking at college applications
The real issue is during the early days in this country the British paid a bounty on Indian scalps which were called Redskins.
I believe the scalping tradition started with the French.
The term Redskin thus does not mean a strong fighting person but a scalp of a dead person used to collect bounty.
I believe the scalping tradition started with the French.
The term Redskin thus does not mean a strong fighting person but a scalp of a dead person used to collect bounty.
9
If what you say is the "real issue" I wonder how many people even know what you have stated?
I'd say virtually no one (myself included), perhaps making it just the real issue for you.
I'd say virtually no one (myself included), perhaps making it just the real issue for you.
1
Rodger is correct.
It is a issue with the Native American Indian and history shows it tied to the scalps of Native American Indians:
Spencer Phips, a British politician and then Lieutenant Governor of the Massachusetts Bay Province, issued the call, ordering on behalf of British King George II for, “His Majesty’s subjects to Embrace all opportunities of pursuing, captivating, killing and Destroying all and every of the aforesaid Indians.” They paid well – 50 pounds for adult male scalps; 25 for adult female scalps; and 20 for scalps of boys and girls under age 12.
These bloody scalps were known as “redskins.”
It is a issue with the Native American Indian and history shows it tied to the scalps of Native American Indians:
Spencer Phips, a British politician and then Lieutenant Governor of the Massachusetts Bay Province, issued the call, ordering on behalf of British King George II for, “His Majesty’s subjects to Embrace all opportunities of pursuing, captivating, killing and Destroying all and every of the aforesaid Indians.” They paid well – 50 pounds for adult male scalps; 25 for adult female scalps; and 20 for scalps of boys and girls under age 12.
These bloody scalps were known as “redskins.”
In following similar stories about team names over the years, the disconnect regarding "Redskins" is that the name, when chosen, represented prowness, power, ability over opponents; not as a derogatory reference to a group. Doubtful that racism played a part in the naming of a children's sports team. There are a lot of Bears, Tigers, Warriors, Ironmen, Hawks, etc. out there, but few Kittens, Snails, Milquetoasts, Losers, etc.
It is a good thing that teams are addressing this issue. When the original intent/meaning has changed, it is time for something new. Those that rattle off a list of intentionally offensive names as "simliar" examples in this discussion miss that point, intentionally or not.
It is a good thing that teams are addressing this issue. When the original intent/meaning has changed, it is time for something new. Those that rattle off a list of intentionally offensive names as "simliar" examples in this discussion miss that point, intentionally or not.
2
We are not your Mascot. If you feel the name gives you some type of power for your team, you are mistaken. All the name does is stereotype and dehumanize the Native American race. There is no honor in it. time to get rid of it.
Maybe some find the user name Tomahawk offensive?
Are we really supposed to take your grips seriously?
Are we really supposed to take your grips seriously?
"...the meaning here in Lancaster is nothing to do with how they feel about it,” aptly describes the short sightedness of the traditionalists view. That argument has already failed previous litmus tests regarding ethnic offenses. Don't these folks read or watch the news?
5
We have this issue in north central Wisconsin. The older generation are holding the younger generation hostage to their values. The media here no longer use the nickname "Indians" so it's just plain vanilla "Mosinee High School" and the current students have lost any unique identity of their school because of the bone-headedness of the older generation.
2
"He added: “We take it as we are fighting as warriors, and not calling other people Redskins. I just hope we keep the name. That’s all I care for.”
Thus spake a future leader of our great land.
Thus spake a future leader of our great land.
Then change the name to "Warriors." It's not rocket science.
The truth is, it's the sports fans who are primitive tribal societies... their difference from actual Native Americans could not be more clear.
The truth is, it's the sports fans who are primitive tribal societies... their difference from actual Native Americans could not be more clear.
In your personal life, if someone you care about says: "I know you didn't realize, but please don't call me that name. I find it deeply offensive," don't you respect their wishes? Just as one human being to another? Isn't that simple decency? Isn't that what humans do when they don't want to be rude?
So why is it so important to you to hold their wishes in contempt as soon as it becomes college football, or politics? What value do you hold that is truly more important to you than simple person-to-person civility?
So why is it so important to you to hold their wishes in contempt as soon as it becomes college football, or politics? What value do you hold that is truly more important to you than simple person-to-person civility?
48
I'm a Lancaster High School alumni. Among my graduating class, opinions are split by geography. By-in-large, graduates who stayed in Lancaster are unaware or even proud of their ignorance. In contrast, graduates who moved away are generally ashamed and embarrassed by the mascot.
29
Now that's a bit one sided. You might want to stick to expressing your personal experience.
1
I find myself in the same situation. And when sharing the name of my high school mascots with others who are not from the area, they are shocked!
Gotta love Dan Snyder and others who argue that the name of the Washington football team honors native Americans and is a part of football tradition. They conveniently ignore the fact that the founder of same football team, George Preston Marshall, was the epitome of a racist. He openly resisted desegregation of professional football. His team was the last to add African Americans. It's highly unlikely that Marshall cared one wit about native Americans or desired to honor them in any way. Most probably, he thought no more highly of native Americans than he did African Americans.
So, all of you who want to point to the Washington football team as justification for keeping your racist high school mascot, keep in mind that you're in the company of old Mr. Marshall, who'll be giving you a big racist thumbs up from his grave.
So, all of you who want to point to the Washington football team as justification for keeping your racist high school mascot, keep in mind that you're in the company of old Mr. Marshall, who'll be giving you a big racist thumbs up from his grave.
32
There is nothing to debate here. My alma mater, Miami University in Oxford, Ohio, chose to drop the Redskins mascot name in 1997 and become the Miami Redhawks. I was then and still am incredibly proud of their decision to do so, especially because they did it out of respect for the Miami Indian tribe after whom the college is named. Love and honor to Miami.
There should be no debate. If a group of people expresses offense at the name, respect for the them should take precedence over anything else. It's about them, not YOU.
There should be no debate. If a group of people expresses offense at the name, respect for the them should take precedence over anything else. It's about them, not YOU.
12
The superintendent of Houston public schools just got rid of these team names for our high schools. Yeah, there was upset and debate but we all survived. Lancaster will, too.
12
About fifteen years ago, the high school I went to changed its teams' names from the Indians to the Falcons. With the possible exception of the football team, which during a halcyon period in the 1960s went undefeated for several seasons (with the aid of Calvin Hill), the Falcons have done just fine. New jerseys had to be bought, a new jingle had to be invented, and new mugs, sweatshirts, and stuffed animals had to be marketed. The putative fighting spirit of Indians had to be reattributed to falcons. Then time moved on.
10
Why can't they use some symbolic name from the proud traditions of White people... like The Puritans, or The Stormtroopers, or how about The Klansmen?
Then maybe they'd see how it feels.
Then maybe they'd see how it feels.
12
Not sure the Puritans deserve to be on that list
1
I understand that tradition is important for people.
However, racism is a tradition that Americans must work hard to destroy not keep.
However, racism is a tradition that Americans must work hard to destroy not keep.
18
Change it to the Rednecks. Mascot is a rough looking guy with a shotgun in one hand and a jug in the other.
Or how about the Klansmen? Team wears all white uniforms streaked with red and pointy helmets.
Think anyone would be offended?
Or how about the Klansmen? Team wears all white uniforms streaked with red and pointy helmets.
Think anyone would be offended?
25
In Lancaster a more fitting term would be a loaf of white bread.
Keep the name. People who do not like the name "Redskin" need to develop a thicker skin.
If the mascot was clutching an AK-47 assault rifle, I bet a whole bunch of gun enthusiasts would leap to its defense. A shame people don't show any enthusiasm when it's a 1st amendment rights issue like this.
Keep Redskins and get on with your lives.
If the mascot was clutching an AK-47 assault rifle, I bet a whole bunch of gun enthusiasts would leap to its defense. A shame people don't show any enthusiasm when it's a 1st amendment rights issue like this.
Keep Redskins and get on with your lives.
1
How about if the name were "Crackers", with a mascot that was a caracature of a white guy? Would you still be saying "develop a thicker skin"?
The First Amendment gives the KKK the right to exist, but that doesn't make the KKK a good thing to be a part of. There's a difference between what is legal, and what is right.
The First Amendment gives the KKK the right to exist, but that doesn't make the KKK a good thing to be a part of. There's a difference between what is legal, and what is right.
11
Or better yet, Pooja, how would you feel if we had a team called the "Gunga Dins" or the "Black-faces"?
What kind of parent would want to keep the name? Don't you want to teach your children to be considerate of others?
18
While there is compelling etymological research suggesting that the term did not begin as a racial epithet, what matters is how it is used today. The use of skin color to stereotype an entire group of people is an anachronistic stain that has been washed from the fabric of our culture except in this instance. While its supporters may have positive intentions, they must realize that not all native Americans go "on the warpath", live in "tee-pees" or carry "tomahawks". Native Americans are many things: doctors, bankers, teachers, actors, Congressman, Governors, husbands and wives, each descended from thousands of different tribes all over North and Central America. Reducing all of these diverse people to one word– Redskins– is stunningly demeaning. Change the name.
18
High school mascot names are of no consequesnce. It is a healthy discussion by a community to consider changing these names and those of us who watch should allow them to have the debate without our own offensive comments. Perhaps we should consider doing away with Indain reservations and making Native Americans fully part of our society which would include paying taxes.
3
Perhaps we should consider honoring the broken treaties which illegally dispossessed Native Americans of their lands, forcing them onto reservations. Yeah, let's start with that.
2
We had slavery a long time too; didn't make it right. Jim Crow went on and on after the Civil War--wrongful practices die hard. A lot of us grew up with the colorful (to us) nicknames for Native Americans in the NFL and elsewhere. Tradition says they've done it this way a long time and community emotions get in the way of moral ethics. Any small amount of empathy or sense of history should dawn the truth on pathetic short term traditions. Where are Americans today?
7
TV Cynic mentions "Jim Crow". It might be interesting to point out that "Jim Crow" was originally a character that people would dress up as. In what may be the first description in fiction of Mardi Gras in New Orleans, the early Harlem Renaissance writer Alice Dunbar-Nelson observed that "The streets are a crush of jesters and maskers, Jim Crows and clowns, ballet girls and Mephistos, Indians and monkeys" ("A Carnival Jangle," in her 1895 collection "Violets and Other Tales"). She seems to regard "Jim Crow" as neutrally as the other figures.
But it's unthinkable that we'd use the tradition of the Jim Crow character as justification for a sports teams mascot by that name. While I suppose "Braves" might be argued for as an accolade of fighting spirit, or "Mohawks" on analogy with "Fighting Irish" (though the Notre Dame Leprechaun is pretty ghastly), "Redskins" is just plain pejorative.
But it's unthinkable that we'd use the tradition of the Jim Crow character as justification for a sports teams mascot by that name. While I suppose "Braves" might be argued for as an accolade of fighting spirit, or "Mohawks" on analogy with "Fighting Irish" (though the Notre Dame Leprechaun is pretty ghastly), "Redskins" is just plain pejorative.
2
I don't see how just because we stole their land and decimated their people with our diseases and guns we need to be considerate of their feelings.
Seriously, if the majority of aboriginal Americans find the term Redskin offensive, how could anything trump that? Who are these people who'd push another insult down their throats along with all the broken treaties and the rest of the sad history we've imposed on them. How do their puny traditions stand up to that history. Completely pathetic!
They make me ashamed of being a Whiteskin.
Seriously, if the majority of aboriginal Americans find the term Redskin offensive, how could anything trump that? Who are these people who'd push another insult down their throats along with all the broken treaties and the rest of the sad history we've imposed on them. How do their puny traditions stand up to that history. Completely pathetic!
They make me ashamed of being a Whiteskin.
7
I wish we could get this issue resolved so the Native Americans could use their energy to address more important problems
3
“We take it as we are fighting as warriors, and not calling other people Redskins. I just hope we keep the name. That’s all I care for.”
Why not change the name to Warriors? It would capture what this person thinks the essence of Redskins is about, and be way less offensive.
Plus, it would have the benefit of connecting football, hockey and war, just to help those young people understand what they're doing in this bread-and-circus of sport.
Why not change the name to Warriors? It would capture what this person thinks the essence of Redskins is about, and be way less offensive.
Plus, it would have the benefit of connecting football, hockey and war, just to help those young people understand what they're doing in this bread-and-circus of sport.
7
With so many pressing issues around the world I'm glad folks have the time to fixate on nicknames. We in America are quite fortunate to be in this position.
2
Yes, by all means, since there are problems in other countries, let's ignore the problems here. "Fixate on nicknames" is a snide and inaccurate (but ketchy!) characterization of a municipal-level punch in the face to the expressed desire of an entire ethnic group not to be institutionally insulted on a continuous basis.
But then, we all know how these things have historically been dealt with in MS.
But then, we all know how these things have historically been dealt with in MS.
How about the tightie whities? It is time to change.
2
Ironically, Red Mesa High School on the Navajo Reservation still calls themselves the Redskins.
2
How about a slight name change to Reskins or Russkins. Keep the colors, eliminate any Native American imagery. Keep referring to the team by voice as you always have. Now it is spelled differently. Done. People need to learn how to compromise.
1
I think that the word Redskin should be referred to as the "R" word and Native Americans should only be allowed to use the word. If someone is offended then the NYT should honor their feelings. This is the standard with certain words that can never be spoken by persons not within that group. Rap musicians have built an industry using offensive words instead of their delegated letters with no consequences. Also, as a person of Irish ancestry, I am extremely offended by the words “Fighting Irish” which has negative connotations. I request that those words in the future be referred to in this newspaper as "FI's". (yes, sarcasm intended)
The subtext here of course is that these White people do not feel they have a defining warrior tradition in their own history. Naming their football team after another race of people says a lot about their own feelings of inadequacy.
4
Not only should the name "Redskins" be banished, but so called "sports" competitons in general should be outlawed as well. The entire notion of competition is by definition exclusive of those differently abled, gendered, sexually oriented as well as in ethnic and racial background. In promoting "sports" we leave our disadvantaged behind, thus creating social barriers and deep psychological harm to the weakest links in our chain of humanity.
The human spirit should be about fundamental fairness and not winning and cheering on the chosen few, especially so with such veiled racism.
The human spirit should be about fundamental fairness and not winning and cheering on the chosen few, especially so with such veiled racism.
4
Warriors, Commodores, Cowboys, Giants, Vikings, Fighting Irish, and Redskins all evoke tough characters or people who will fight hard toward victory. I do not believe that the name Redskins was ever meant to be anything detrimental to a proud and cherished part of our heritage. Heck, my school, here in New York was the Peglegs! Imagine what those with disabilities were feeling!
3
but all those names don't conjure a racial slur as redskins does
you need to take into account the history of our country and the past offenses we are trying to right
its gonna go its inevitable
you need to take into account the history of our country and the past offenses we are trying to right
its gonna go its inevitable
2
So there are plenty of tough names to choose from, according to your list.
3
While the Warriors, Commodores, Cowboys, Giants, Vikings, Fighting Irish might evoke tough characters, We are real live human beings. We are not your Mascot for any sports team or was never intended to be your Mascot. Its time to get rid of it.
What is inherently good about tradition that it should supersede common decency? If a mascot was whitey or cracker it would also be inappropriate regardless of how long it had maintained the title. Can anyone articulate what exactly is being lost and why that outweighs the duty to change a name that is blatantly offensive?
7
So shameful that there's even a debate about changing the name. Really? The fetishistic treatment of "tradition" among Americans may not be unique but it certainly seems to get in the way of meaningful and thoughtful social progress and policy.
3
The term Redskin comes from the skinning of The People by soldiers and claimed as a trophy. How anyone can be proud of a word with such a history is beyond me. If they want to be seen as warriors, then they should have warrior as a nickname, not a trophy of a massacred person.
4
I don't think anyone would find the use of the term whiteskins, brownskins, or blackskins appropriate as a high school mascot, so why do people find redskins appropriate? Associating the academic excellence of a high school to its nickname is ridiculous and petty - demonstrate your character by choosing an inclusive and inoffensive mascot instead of defending a culturally insensitive one.
9
The people of Lancaster N.Y. can do better than Dan Snyder, of that I am sure.
Those who grew up around Cowboy movies recall that Redskin was used always in a disparaging manner.
The noble Red Man or that filthy thieving lying lowdown snake in the grass scalping, Redskin?
Past time for a change.
Those who grew up around Cowboy movies recall that Redskin was used always in a disparaging manner.
The noble Red Man or that filthy thieving lying lowdown snake in the grass scalping, Redskin?
Past time for a change.
4
Call 'em the Allskins.
Again?
The controversy that won't go away. Who's being tone death here? Some people feeling hurt but that's OK? How important is it? It amazes me how hard change is for some people. Since it won't go away, we need a different response then we have made so far. We get the same lesson again and again until we choose differently.
The controversy that won't go away. Who's being tone death here? Some people feeling hurt but that's OK? How important is it? It amazes me how hard change is for some people. Since it won't go away, we need a different response then we have made so far. We get the same lesson again and again until we choose differently.
1
Feelings hurt?
Do you know what its like to go to a game as a Native American Indian and see and feel the negative energy that surrounds you when people are doing the tomahawk chops? the Drum beats? No one knows until it is your race is being dehumanized in that manner so while its ok in your terms for `some` feelings to be hurt but its not ok for others. just remember that next time you go to one of your redskins game that dehumanize a American Native Indian.
Do you know what its like to go to a game as a Native American Indian and see and feel the negative energy that surrounds you when people are doing the tomahawk chops? the Drum beats? No one knows until it is your race is being dehumanized in that manner so while its ok in your terms for `some` feelings to be hurt but its not ok for others. just remember that next time you go to one of your redskins game that dehumanize a American Native Indian.
Gigi Ground's sign explained that it's a matter of "Dignity Above Tradition.” How does placing a name in high esteem detract from its dignity?
Ms. Ground also said “I don’t think people know how it’s offensive to us.” And we still don't know because she did not offer any explanation as to how it is offensive.
Ms. Ground also said “I don’t think people know how it’s offensive to us.” And we still don't know because she did not offer any explanation as to how it is offensive.
2
"What's in a name? that which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet"
- William Shakespeare
Although I appreciate the connection to the past as well as the symbolism and possible motivation mascots and mottos provide, the greater good should outweigh a school's desire to continue the use of a hurtful term.
All teams should seize the moment and change their use of derogatory terms for the sake of all Americans: European, Native or other.
By any other name would smell as sweet"
- William Shakespeare
Although I appreciate the connection to the past as well as the symbolism and possible motivation mascots and mottos provide, the greater good should outweigh a school's desire to continue the use of a hurtful term.
All teams should seize the moment and change their use of derogatory terms for the sake of all Americans: European, Native or other.
3
Exactly: Once a Redskin, always a Redskin. Go Indians.
1
I'm from Buffalo, and I find it reprehensible that this pejorative term is used any longer -- for anything. We would not ever refer to any other minority with this kind of terminology. We refer to Hispanic Americans and Black Americans -- not any of the former racist terminology used for them. It's high time we showed the same respect for Native Americans. I'm not impressed with Jim Everett who graduated in 1973 and had children and grandchildren attend the school and therefore wants to keep the name. It's now 2015 -- high time to give our Native Americans some respect. I pray Lancaster and Washington DC do the right thing here and show some respect to this long oppressed minority.
14
As a high school teacher and coach I am all too familiar with community and student traditions. A strong alumni presence indicates a love and appreciation for tradition and continuity. However, the name or the mascot is not what creates this sense of community, it just happens to be the face attached to phenomenon. Would the town's enthusiasm for its athletics waiver if they had to suddenly support "Warriors"? I think not.
There is no doubt that the people of this town care about their children and town identity, but they seem to be insulated from the fact that their mascot is indeed offensive and is rightly interpreted as having a racist edge.
Would townsfolk be so supportive of a "Blackskin" or "Yellowskin" mascot or the potentially offensive image associated with them? I only saw a few photos posted to this article, but white faces dominated the crowd. I think this says more about the "controversy" over this mascot than anything else. This does not imply that those who defend the Redskin name are racist, only that they have no idea what it means to be subjected to racism (and racist names).
There is no doubt that the people of this town care about their children and town identity, but they seem to be insulated from the fact that their mascot is indeed offensive and is rightly interpreted as having a racist edge.
Would townsfolk be so supportive of a "Blackskin" or "Yellowskin" mascot or the potentially offensive image associated with them? I only saw a few photos posted to this article, but white faces dominated the crowd. I think this says more about the "controversy" over this mascot than anything else. This does not imply that those who defend the Redskin name are racist, only that they have no idea what it means to be subjected to racism (and racist names).
19
Since you say that white faces dominated the crowd, why not change the name to Whities?
You imply that there is a problem with having blackskin or yellowskin....why is that?People are beautiful, no matter what color there skin is!
What is there to debate? Your mascot is offensive. Choose something else and move on.
50
A bunch of white people still trying to justify racism.
These folks need to pull themselves out of 1953, take a deep look internally and externally, and hopefully realize how offensive they are and what fools they are making of themselves. Change and creativity go a long way.
These folks need to pull themselves out of 1953, take a deep look internally and externally, and hopefully realize how offensive they are and what fools they are making of themselves. Change and creativity go a long way.
49
Imitating any aspect of another groups physical or cultural values is simply wrong. When many names like redskins were chosen for football or other team activities this nation had a large majority of white citizens.
I don't recall any school or group with the name paleskins or whiteskins.
I don't recall any school or group with the name paleskins or whiteskins.
15
If you don't think the word's offensive, next time you see a Native American, go up to them and say 'hey redskin, how's your day going?' A newspaper advert from Minnesota, dating from 1863: "The state reward for dead Indians has been increased to $200 for every redskin sent to purgatory." That was from the Dakota Conflict in which 38 Dakota were hung in a mass execution in Mankato, Minnesota. Maybe they could change the name to Proud Whiteys....
42
Since most of the people who support the current name seem to be of the white persuasion, why not rename the teams the Lancaster Palefaces?
Would white people take offense at that?
Would white people take offense at that?
32
"Lancaster Crackers." Also, the team from Lancaster should change their name to something else.
4
Either that, or how bout...Lancaster White Privileges?
My high school had this debate (mascot: Indians) 20+ years ago when I was a student. At the time, I thought the debate was frivolous, but also felt the name shouldn't be changed. What's the big deal? (It wasn't changed then and is still Indians now.)
Then I left my hometown (99% white) and was exposed to all kinds of different people and pretty quickly changed my mind. Wow, that's pretty crass, using a group of people for a mascot?! Moreover, a group of people nearly decimated by war and disease unleashed by colonialists?! Disgraceful.
Would you approve of "Native Americans", "Blacks", or "Asians" as a school mascot? Of course not. But "Redskins" is even worse. It's like having "Negroes" (or the even more offensive N-word) or "Gooks" or "Chinks" as your school mascot.
There's really no debate. "Redskins" as a mascot or otherwise is an offensive anachronism and really needs to go.
Then I left my hometown (99% white) and was exposed to all kinds of different people and pretty quickly changed my mind. Wow, that's pretty crass, using a group of people for a mascot?! Moreover, a group of people nearly decimated by war and disease unleashed by colonialists?! Disgraceful.
Would you approve of "Native Americans", "Blacks", or "Asians" as a school mascot? Of course not. But "Redskins" is even worse. It's like having "Negroes" (or the even more offensive N-word) or "Gooks" or "Chinks" as your school mascot.
There's really no debate. "Redskins" as a mascot or otherwise is an offensive anachronism and really needs to go.
61
Grow up people. Arguing (not debating) over a high school football name is, if not the height of ignorance and parochialism, a close competitor.
9
It's time to get rid of this offensive slur. There is no other meaning for this term than a racist one.
As Americans we should be ashamed to have a professional sports team thus labelled in our nation's capital....or anywhere in our country.
The native culture, through the Iroquois Confederacy, gave the US the model for its federal government. Indian ideas and values permeate our natonal DNA.
It's time we honor them....or, at very least, stop dishonoring them.
Daniel Snyder should hold a contest for the best name for that football team, then let's have a public vote on it. Chief Wahoo also needs to join the scrap heap of history.
It's clear where this is heading. It's only a matter of time. The only question is how much longer we allow this insult to linger.
As Americans we should be ashamed to have a professional sports team thus labelled in our nation's capital....or anywhere in our country.
The native culture, through the Iroquois Confederacy, gave the US the model for its federal government. Indian ideas and values permeate our natonal DNA.
It's time we honor them....or, at very least, stop dishonoring them.
Daniel Snyder should hold a contest for the best name for that football team, then let's have a public vote on it. Chief Wahoo also needs to join the scrap heap of history.
It's clear where this is heading. It's only a matter of time. The only question is how much longer we allow this insult to linger.
22
Slight correct: I believe it is the Bobcats, not the Wildcats.
2
I graduated from Quinnipiac College in 1967. Their team was called "the Braves" with picture of an Indian Brave. They have since changed it to the Wildcats, in 2001. It's still the same great school, even better.
18
Why don't they change the name to Braves, or Warriors? End of problem.
5
How would that change the physical mascot, Howard? See the problem; grown men dressing up like Indians (warriors)?
1