"hoping that, in the end, it’s not that big of a deal."
Too late. It very much is.
Read this newspaper and read a few from abroad.
2
OMG! I don't care about the stupid virus but this quarantine stuff is scary. You fools do you want me to get HUNGRT?!
1
No one in NYC should be stockpiling water. Just buy filters or filtered jugs for drinking and cooking.
1
'Are we worrying too much or not enough?' Yes.
1
Why stockpile water? Is there any reasonable indication that a quarantined person wouldn’t have their normal access to water?
1
Another note to fellow New Yorkers. Much like the common cold, the CoVid-19 virus is spread primarily by droplets and aerosol carried in the air & concentrated in crowded/confined spaces. As you can see, in Asia & Europe, the predominant means of limiting the spread of viruses is the distribution and disciplined wearing of N-95 masks. The promotion of hand-washing as an effective means of controlling the spread of an aerosol virus is simultaneously laughable & tragic. The strenuous effort made to misinform the American public about proper masks being ineffective when used by the general public is a transparent deception intended to minimize the public outrage that should result from the inadequate supply of this basic public health resource. Plain & simple! If masks were ineffective, they would not have disappeared from hospital inventories when accounts of the epidemic first appeared in medical journals in January. Our dependence on Chinese manufacturers of critical public health assets is deeply embarrassing. It is a strategic vulnerability. Our best answer is to mislead the public about the efficacy of masks and distract them with 3rd best control efforts involving hand sanitizer & hand washing techniques. Few (no!) public health professionals have the courage to challenge the deception. Let me be the first to speak the truth. If you have masks, use them! If you have extra, share them judiciously. Now is the time! Waiting until you see masks in common use will be too late
2
I'm 78 and moved from Santa Monica to the high desert in the Joshua Tree area. I stocked up, but it wasn't out of panic. It was to cut back on my trips to Walmart and exposure to crowds.
3
Preparing for the outbreak won't help a lot unless all the people living on the streets, earning a minimum wage without health insurance and without working permits also get a change to do the tests if feeling ill and without need to pay for the services.
The inefficiency of the private priority healthcare systems is becoming visible by the day. Comparing to other countries with better public and free for all healthcare systems (it is not really free as people pay for it through taxes) it seems that the reported number of cases in US is too low or somehow the number of deaths do not match with the over all death rate in other countries, which is under 1% of confirmed cases.
If low income people do not get support for the mandatory 14 day period of self-quarantine, how do you expect them to do that. They still need to pay for rent, food and other costs of living.
It will be interesting to see how many months this will go on in US, before someone actually decides an action that really tackles the problem.
Twitter president from the European perspective at least is not helping in the problem and his response seem similar to US response to Spanish flu in start of 20th century.
3
You might want to do something more useful with your voice and urge people to keep their distance from other people, sanitize after contact, avoid large group gatherings, etc. Lets promote common sense tactics so everyone knows them. Be useful and spread helpful tips to avoid getting a virus. Don't touch your face for one.
4
Most of the Comments section in articles on Coronavirus are closed off, I don't know why. The public cannot ask questions even. I have one unsettling question that maybe someone can catch and address. Why are numbers being reported as they are in the US? 1,000 confirmed cases as of tonight. This is a minimum minimum. We have not been practically testing so how can we have an even semi accurate account of confirmed cases? This "fact" is completely inaccurate and creates too much complacency.
11
Of course we want to avoid being infected, but importantly, all these steps also SLOW DOWN the overall spread. Why is that important? Because overwhelming the healthcare system's capacity leads to mortality. In China, nationwide case fatality rate is 3+%, but huge difference between in Hubei province (>4%) and rest of China (0.7%). Why? The prevailing thinking is the virus spread so quickly in Hubei (where Wuhan is) that the hospitals were completely overwhelmed and didn't have nearly enough capacity to treat all the cases. And many times, patients went from mild symptoms to life-threatening in a very short period of time. Docs and nurses were overworked and also got sick. Not enough hospital beds, ventilators (critical need), meds, etc. The Chinese quarantines slowed down the spread enough for the rest of the country's hospitals to get their act together and have adequate resources for the flow of patients. With proper care, this can be handled. But if 1000 people show up at NYU downtown hospital needing respirators on the same day, we have a problem.
All these school closings and office closings are meant to stop 8 million people in NYC from getting sick all at once. This is what Iran and Italy are going through, and certain counties in Washington state. This is why shortage of testing in US for last few weeks has been the real failure.
11
Millennial self-absorption on display here. Yes, your risk of serious illness if you contract COVID 19 but you can infect those at high risk - the elderly and people with chronic illnesses. A less flippant tome would be appropriate. And maybe less angst about the size of your living space.
40
Must read: "The Patron Saint of Plagues" by Barth Anderson. Wickedly timely and a terrifically written yarn.
1
Somebody once said (I paraphrase) "Youth is wasted on the young." Lets hope not for the sake of the world. To the young people, the whole world is yours now. The new corona virus kills the elderly, not the young. Thinking back one hundred years ago and imagining the horror of young life then, after a terrible world war that killed forty million people, followed quickly by a terrible influenza pandemic that killed between 50-100 million, mainly young people. So many young lives were taken then. But hopefully not this time. Yes, if the projections come to fruition our collective life expectancy will decline. For example, if two hundred million people in the US are infected with the virus, the projections are that two percent will die from it. Two percent of two hundred million is four million. That is a lot of people who are projected to perish. Can this really be happening?
Perhaps only 10% of the US population will be infected? That would be 33 million people. If 2% of 33 million people die, that is 660,000 people. That is too many people.
So our approach to this virus should be that the young people should live their life to the fullest, but please take measures to protect the elderly from the virus. Call them on the phone, talk to them via social media and facetime. Bring them food and supplies, leave them at their door.
Give them space when they are in public. Unless a cure is found, one day today's young people will join their ranks and become isolated too.
21
60,000 Americans died in the most recent “bad flu year” flu — why wasn’t that too many for anybody? How about the 22,000 flu deaths this year so far, including the highest pediatric death count in modern times. To few? Your apocalyptic visions aren’t worth much if you don’t walk the talk
I read this, and even as a Boomer, never mind a Millennial, I wondered how any of us could have survived as a Londoner living through the Blitz.
13
Quit complaining. Italians are used to living in smaller quarters than Americans. They are dealing with this because it’s the only choice to beat the virus. It is as if we are at war- which we are, with a disease, and extreme measures need to take place to beat it. As in WWII people took measures to conserve materials, volunteer and grow victory gardens, not knowing the outcome or how disastrous the situation would get, we too need to unite to fight this disease. Quit complaining and whining about overreaction and the media hype. Let’s join together to save lives.
19
Interesting. The local Whole Foods in Lower Manhattan has lots of empty shelves, which it normally never does come to think of it, particularly store brand Granola three days running, I didn’t make this connection until seeing this article. I wonder if the local wine and spirit stores will start having shortages as well. Sounds like a quarantine would be a good time to brush up on one’s mixologist skills.
7
Haha! Normalized alcoholism!
It's always great to have a millennial and member of the editorial staff of arguably the most important paper in the country make light of a virus that could kill millions. Even if it continues to kill only .2% of 20 somethings, it would mean 1 out of 500 millennials infected would die and they may infect and ultimately kill many others. #snarkymillennials
12
Actually it is barely hitting children and young people at all.
Where’d you get the Purcell, darn it!
3
This virus is a wake up call to Americans. And it’s not going to be pretty. Most have had it cushy for what seems like forever, unless you are homeless, hungry, working for minimum wage at three jobs, have hungry children, have inadequate crowded slum housing, have an apartment with four roommates of which two rent the closets as their “bedroom”, who eat Ramen noodles to get buy, who don’t eat so they can pay the bills, etc, etc. But most Americans have been living on easy street for some time compared to the many US poor as well as the destitute in many areas of the world. This horribly mismanaged epidemic has Americans twisting in circles. The lack of leadership is appalling. The elite, (Trump et al.) cannot conceive of the hardship this virus will have on the masses. Once these masses get plenty fed up I hope they will see that Trump has not cared, and does not care one whit about them, as he just brushes off the sick with the equivalent of, let ‘em stay on the ship (and die). As we know from history, angry, hungry, sick masses are powerful indeed.
22
A single senior care facility had 19 dead and still all their staff had not been tested. Now several other facilities are infected. Are contract care givers, asymptomatic, passing the virus from one facility to another? Without testing we will never know. And testing sufficient just for senior care facilities isn't coming in a week let alone today.
What we have already learned is that we are bad at this. Our urban centers are completely unable to isolate in place because they don't have the necessary supplies.
The next pandemic may not spare those under fifty or the healthy. We have actually dodged a bullet here, though the families of the dead won't think so.
Bet you the lessons will be quickly forgotten and we will by this time next year have moved on without fixing a thing.
16
The real problem here is that we’ve created a culture where the survivor of an outbreak (with no discernible literary talent) might conceivably have his book published. Enough with this genre of novels (and humans)
10
It is simply amazing that every public statement regarding the lack of Coronavrus testing avoids confronting the obvious failure to expedite any effort to identify the scope of the pandemic in the U.S. The White House, CDC, the NIH and the Surgeon General (along with every Trump supporter with access to a microphone and/or a video camera has promised that over a million tests would be available by the end of the week. That was last week. Didn't happen! Now those tests are supposed to be available by the end of this week. Maybe. But bottom line is that less than 5000 test results have been announced since this started in January. Clearly, the predominant intent is to slow walk every phase of this effort to fight the pandemic. Have the limitations on processing tests been loosened from the initial rigid series of approvals mandated by the CDC in early February been changed? If so, that has not been announced. Local public health officials are clearly operating under some kind of gag order. Only a few test results announced daily, usually as "presumptive" positive diagnosis. These seem to be uncritically folded into attempts to cover the spread of the pandemic and to drive decisions made at any level below the Federal Executive Branch. The priority awarded to the President's political & personal preferences are still the controlling consideration. National & local media are clearly intimidated, judging by the muted criticism of official spokes-models. (The Surgeon General!)
11
@mike4vfr "It is simply amazing that every public statement regarding the lack of Coronavirus testing avoids confronting the obvious failure to expedite any effort to identify the scope of the pandemic in the U.S."
That is not amazing. Setting up testing for a virus is science, not an Amazon order. Things like this take time. It is amazing that we were promised it would take a week when everyone knew that wasn't going to happen. Or with what was happening in China, Italy, etc they weren't on already.
"Clearly, the predominant intent is to slow walk every phase of this effort to fight the pandemic."
Yea, agreed. That, and to not clearly communicate with the public. It sounds like they are taking their time developing a plan (which is not unreasonable). And they are trying to avoid a panic by not communicating, which just creates more panic.
I don't think Trump is the issue. I think the Powers That Be are scared and panicking themselves. This is a possible PR and leadership disaster, if they give the wrong information, or even if they do everything right and the virus nationwide.
3
I’m hoping the hoarders will do the right thing when this is over and donate your supplies to those in need, like soup kitchens, the homeless, etc.
You know, that’ll free up some space in your tiny apartments and you’ll be doing a good thing for our communities.
24
or eat them....
1
I find it incredible that me and my wife ,both of us elderly cannot replenish our vastly vanishing bottle of hand sanitizers,
Gov. Coumo has put in the Naional Guard here and yet we can't find hand sanitizers in our local Chelsea & midtown NYC stores...what's with this? Why is this in America's most populated city?
11
@Carlyle T.
Hand sanitizer just kills bacteria. I don’t know how effective it would be against a virus.
6
@Patrick
I agree ,yet every website on Covid 19 prevention states to use Alcohol based wipes if soap and water are not available,perhaps as liquid Chrorine stinks they ask us to use the common handiwipes?
@Patrick, haven’t you been reading the news? If it is 60% alcohol or higher, it kills viruses.
It’s not you we are worried about! Healthy young people will be able to get through the virus relatively easily. It’s people with compromised immune systems and the elderly that the virus seems to quickly kill.
My daughter lives in a building on the upper west side with lots of elderly residents. She can get out and about easily and is concerned about not bringing the virus in to her neighbors. She doesn’t ride the subway, go to large gatherings and washes her hands frequently. She got in some basic supplies in case she has to quarantine and that’s it.
Stop whining and start winning!
6
Sad to say, Howard Ruff was right.
Invite you to sing -
"People. People who need people. Are the luckiest people in the world!"
Except when-
Diphtheria, Typhoid, Tuberculosis, Coronavirus
Refrain-
"People. People infect people. The unluckiest people in the world!"
What do you think happens in a city of 10.6 million people?
So, you huddle in shoe box, write a piece for the NYT and hope it passes you by?
Magic.
1
Correction: 8.6 million
1
can someone please tell me what the rush on bottled water is...? has the water department closed down already...! OMG!
12
I would have thought Hurricane Sandy taught new skills, illustrated the need to be prepared. Disaster preparedness should be a regular part of our lives.
Yes, it's expensive to buy lots of stuff now when there's a crisis in progress, but stocking up a few extra cans of beans, some rice and soup over months and months should be doable for just about everyone.
8
and staggers expiration dates
There is no need to fear Coronavirus if you take one thing seriously, and that is that we need to follow control measures on the spread of the virus so that our health systems can cope with serious cases of infection.
The virus has an 'epidemic curve'. When it peaks infection rates are at their highest and demand on health systems are at their highest. Control measures help 'flatten the curve' and thus make it easier for the health system to treat everyone who needs treatment. Without controls the simple math is more people with serious conditions can't be treated and die. Thus we all need to acknowledge and prepare as best we can for some temporary social control measures. A sense of collaboration and support among everyone, politicians, health workers and citizens would be more useful than fear or just a 'what's going to happen to me' attitude.
It's not the flu, there is no vaccine yet and so its effecting our global populations very differently.
https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/coronavirus-us-entering-new-rapid-acceleration-phase/news-story/a36d206651eb7e17e760a5bd43fee4bf
12
did an editor stick millenials on the headline because of click metrics? that said the profound unseriousness my generation is approaching this crisis is a new level of irony poisoning I had not thought possible. instead of wondering what level of worry you should have approaching it seriously like an actual adult would be sufficient. heres hoping austin texas wont be the elite of a major outbreak because of a reactionary response to the cancellation of the official portion of what amounts to be a huge spring break party. it seems despite the woke posturing millenials would rather endanger themselves and others in the interest of self indulgence
13
Is this supposed to be educational?
5
I suggest that, if you can, just go back home. I will never understand people living in closets just to say they "live" in New York City. Ridiculous.
4
I'm unlucky - I'm in the wrong age bracket and have underlying conditions that make me fear Covid-19.
I'm lucky - I'm retired and able to stay home alone for days on end.
I'm unlucky - as price gouging takes place and supplies disappear, the things I want to stockpile are not available or affordable.
I'm lucky - I have a good support system and plans for how to handle worst-case scenarios.
It's a dizzying see-saw ride, but there's no getting off.
24
Frozen veggies under the dining room table? ;)
2
Sorry, but for such a serious topic (which could easily lend itself to humor) this writing leaves much to be desired.
There's no there there . . .
9
What experts are telling you to stock a 30 day supply of drinking water? Seriously... these article so more harm than good.
10
You should be very afraid. Tony Fauci who was independent said on Friday nobody should take a cruise. Saturday Pence meet with Executives from the Cruise lines and today Fauci said it was fine to go on a cruise.
You can't trust anything coming out of the White House.
Today NPR reported we have conducted 9,000 tests since January. South Korea which has 1/7th of our population has conducted 10,000 tests a day since the beginning of the year.
We now can't trust anyone working for Trump. Trump is the deep state.
20
The U.K. has conducted 25,000, according to the BBC.
Fauci should stop enabling this clown show in Washington... at some point he becomes complicit in the deceptions.
If you have the luxury of deciding how worried to be, please do yourself and everyone a favor and decide to be less worried.
Why exactly do you need bottled water?
9
@Matthew F. Daumen
Especially in NYC which has among the highest quality tap water in the nation.
4
All of our vulnerable grandparents thank you.
8
After reading the comments, I feel the need to introduce some experiential advice. Treat your home like a ship at sea. You can pack and store food for months without much effort. Sailors have been doing it for centuries. Millennia even. As a very, very basic guide see:
https://www.bwsailing.com/food-for-thought-provisioning-101/
I used this article as one source for sailing licence. Trust me. The galley was smaller than my New York kitchen. The entire boat was smaller than my apartment. It works though. You really can pack an immense variety of long lasting food into small, small places. You just need to shop wisely and cook creatively.
We didn't even have refrigeration for 10 days. Just an ice box. The food was delicious. People have made it work before you.
10
What seems to be missed in the discussion about urgency and panic is this is essentially a potentially deadly game of musical chairs with intensive care hospital beds and rooms with special respirators. When the 100th critically ill person tries to get a bed, and all 99 available ones are already taken, whose grandmother or grandfather is going to go without the best care? That is the urgency. That is why the spread needs to be slowed.
28
@lh
YES, thank you-- this is the most important aspect of slowing community spread, yet it has not been sufficiently emphasized or explained to the public. Availability of resources (ventilators, icu beds) is what will make the difference in survival.
14
With so many comments about comparison with the flu, there are drugs for the flu. Antivirals. Tamiflu. Others. There is no cure or medicine for this new bug. It's so much worse than flu.
15
I do not get the advice of authorities for everyone to stock up on supplies. It seems designed to induce panic and promote selfishness. It's as though we are in a financial crisis, and banking authorities are recommending a run on the bank to get your money out before anyone else does and the bank runs out of money. As in a bank run, not everyone can stock up because stores will run out of stuff long before everyone can get there. The result is that some stock up, in many cases with more than they need, and others encounter empty shelves and cannot even get what they need now, much less stock up for the weeks ahead. What kind of brain dead advice is that to give in a crisis?
13
@RunDog
I guess it depends on how far you go with it. For three in
my household (ages 80, 65, and 24) I bought 25 items of canned goods and a big bag of Asian rice. I don't see this
as excessive, and indeed I suspect it is within what many
people buy for one week. I calculate this to be enough for
three weeks, even ignoring the odds and ends we already
have on hand. If we were really locked in I suppose we
could manage for six weeks.
I have no face masks and no new hand sanitizer beyond what we already had.
The objective is to be in a position to avoid going out.
9
@Zetelmo That works assuming your town has enough canned goods for every person to buy 8. Otherwise... well, like RunDog pointed out, some people around you will now have to go without.
1
Why would the "real" question be a largely uncontrollable psychological state that won't change anything anyway?
2
"The delays in producing and distributing diagnostic tests mean that even experts don’t know how widespread the virus actually is, and what will change in the coming weeks."
That's sloppy and wrong. This is my field. Yes, there is uncertainty about the number infected given the horrible state of testing in the U.S., but there is no question we will have widespread illness and death in a few weeks. It's mathematically impossible for such transmission and mortality *not* to happen... assuming we don't immediately clean up our act and practice extreme social distancing like Hong Kong or South Korea in the meantime. This article gives me little hope people understand what is happening. Do what you can not to spread the disease by limiting your contacts.
28
@Scientist it may indeed be "sloppy and wrong," but frankly your assessment has not been widely reported. the news media have been trying to get accurate information, but the administration and other government agencies are either not telling the whole story or deliberately obfuscating the facts. neither situation is either optimal or helpful. as as result, the populace is told to "prepare to shelter in place; self-quarantine" and not what that actually looks like. social distancing is great, but what if you need more diapers? do we plan for loss of utilities, and what about people who actually own, run, and stock food markets - do *they* "shelter in place," or do they show up to make sure when people need diapers, or cans of soup, those items are available? the reason people don't understand what is happening is because we're not being accurately *told* what is happening.
5
@Judy Hill Agree, the lack of government leadership here is terrible. But this opinion comes from a member of the Editorial Board, who should know a thing or two about sources and basic quantitative reasoning. The epidemic dynamics and need for social distancing NOW are all we non-governmental scientists are talking about, and quite publicly--the analysis is being published live on medRxiv, Twitter, and on University websites. It's there, really.
If I were in charge of messaging, I would say something like: Skip large gatherings. Try to cut your in-person contacts in half. Consolidate grocery and other errands. Absolutely stay home if you're sick (even a bit), but understand people can transmit even if they feel well. If you are sick or have had close contact with someone who is, self-quarantine as much as possible. All this self-quarantine and social distancing doesn't have to be perfect to turn the epidemic around (precise estimates forthcoming!).
3
@Scientist (Correction: The authors is on the editorial staff)
Figure it out! Look at different lists and go through them with your abilities and preferences (food) in mind. You can do it!
Emergency preparedness is important for every household. And with a changing climate, it will continue to be critical in the future.
7
Millenials absent serious pre-existing vulnerabilities should just keep away from those who have them. Just heard some fairly considered expert questioning of closing colleges and universities, sending home healthy youth who are far more likely to carry the virus endangering the general community, than suffer from it themselves. The various official and DIY responses are too impuslive and eccentric for comfort of those seriously at risk.
7
@J111111 It's not just students who are in colleges. There are also professors, admin supporters, food hall staff, etc. They might be in the vulnerable older age groups.
17
Before people panic about not finding their Clorox and Lysol products, keep in mind that less toxic, concentrated detergent can kill virus and bacteria as well (Simple Green Pro, for instance). So can vapor steamers. I use a steamer on my floor because I have dogs in the house. I try not to use chlorine products, where possible, because I have a septic tank with a leach field, so I am careful about putting toxins down the drains. Those sani-wipes everyone uses are often used in ways that lessens their efficiency. You don’t always have to go for the most lethal,product. Hot water, detergent and elbow grease do wonders.
And here is where I put in a word for those who clean homes and businesses for a living. What is being done for them? All of you who hire undocumented house cleaners from the other side of town, are you providing any protection for them? Are you paying them when you are in quarantine and cannot come to your home?
101
@Passion for Peaches
Yes, exactly thank you and who is doing all these "deep cleanings" of places touched by the virus? Probably people with no medical insurance or sick leave.
Many people. have jobs where they can't "work from home" besides cleaning people...Retail employees, grocery store employees, health care workers, pharmacy employees etc.
23
@Passion for Peaches now this post and these ideas are what comment sections are for. Stop blaming, complaining, and despairing, let’s work together to eradicate this thing, and share what we know.
10
I'm over 65...I have a suppressed immune system due to chemotherapy and radiation treatments.
I have always kept a 6 month supply of toilet paper, and I am willing to share. What I cannot buy into is the panic caused by the lack of preparation and BASIC knowledge from the so-called leader of our nation.
Disgraceful and foolishly ignorant of all science, this President is more of a menace than the Covid-19 itself.
I am not giving in to the disdain...
I'm laying low and washing up...and praying for the Republic
44
I have 30 P95 masks that are now worth 5 times the price they were two weeks ago when I bought them.
Not price gouging. Supply and demand. Glad to have them.
Added advantages:
I can go to crowded places without worrying about having some spy camera, facial recognition tracking my every movement.
I dont have to do my hair or put on makeup because I wont be recognised by anyone I know.
7
Are you selling them or hoarding them?
4
@scientella
Flippant and offensive.
Oh, and only your eyes are needed for tracking.
7
My nephew has leukemia and recently underwent a bone marrow transplant. He must stay at home except for trips to and from the hospital for testing. He must wear a mask during those trips to the hospital. He is having trouble finding masks because people who don’t need them are hoarding them.
5
Just a note to fellow New Yorkers, the ability of large utilities to operate seamlessly, when large numbers of employees are out sick, is not assured. Power outages, water & sanitation service interruptions are not likely, but far from impossible.
8
While people are stocking up on sanitizer and food supplies...has anyone checked to see about the sale of guns and weapons? Curious if there has been a surge of guns due to Coronavirus fear and uncertainty of outbreaks....
6
@R Ruiz
That’s taking it too the next level. Are we expecting a Mad Max scenario. Home invasions not for money and jewels, but oatmeal, rice and pasta.
4
We're also being told to be sure to have at least a month's worth of needed prescription drugs in case we have to self-quarantine, and those of us in risk categories have a lot of prescriptions But, even if we could afford the several hundred dollars in co-pays that that would entail, the insurance companies won't let us fill many of our prescriptions ahead of time.
54
I have multiple chronic conditions & this thought occurs to me daily. Every time I hear or see it as a to-do item for preparing. It’s like, have any of you actually been to a pharmacy in the last 10 years? Even if I could a) get approval b) afford it, there’s still c) good luck even finding it in stock. Sigh.
15
@Deadline, I don’t know whether this would work for you, of course, but just putting this out there for others. I have a prescription that comes 9 pills to a box. When I complained to my doctor about having to pay a co-pay for every nine pills, he doubled the prescription for me (same dosage, for an as-needed medication). My health insurance also encourages the use of a mail-order pharmacy, which fills a three-month supply at a time.
8
And insurance will give you only a 30 day supply at once anyway (on their own weird schedule, which leaves you practically a week short every year. Why don’t the drug manufacturers make up for this, day by adding a free week every year? Sure there is human error, but that can’t make anyone break even if ever. I try to get a few extra days so I don’t actually run out, but it’s an annoying game with the calendar and the pharmacies.
2
Get over it.
- Gen X
14
While i am not anxious about getting sick myself I do feel a lot of responsibility for not exposing my 80- year old (healthy) mother as we share a house. It is hard to figure out where to draw the line on optional activities like the gym that are important to my physical and mental health wellbeing.....
9
Something about the word “pandemic”, starting in the same place as several pasts diseases, and hearing about the rapid spread and penetration in China, made us stock up 2 weeks ago. I’m surprised that more people didn’t/don’t.
My concern with this piece is that, from what I understand, younger people will still get sick from covid-19, they are just less likely to die from it. But does the prospect of a case of “only the flu” really make one so caviler? Getting the flu always sucked no matter what age I was. Is being a carrier that could impact those who are not young or have underlining conditions not matter? I don’t feel that in a full-throated way from this author, but it’s there on some level. And while I’m barely into the “concerning age” and very healthy, I still don’t want to get sick at all, whether or not that I expect to beat it.
Are younger people not taking this pandemic seriously, or not seriously enough?
67
@Sonny Beach
In my county, a 20 year old was severely sick and had to be hospitalized, and remains hospitalized.
one third of patients 60 years old and younger in my county have required hospitalization. Three quarters of those older than 65 in my county have required hospitalization. These levels of hospitalization are simply not sustainable.... and the healthcare system will be crushed by this in the coming weeks.
33
@Sonny Beach My husband and I are 33 and have two young kids. My parents see us all the time and are in a high risk group.
We stocked up on everything around mid February, and I was the only person in line with tons of TP, with people asking me if I was getting ready for Armageddon. Many had not heard about the coming pandemic at all.
Even now, I see people acting like it's nothing. Some really do believe it's a hoax, apparently. And they're old, just conservative.
We're taking precautions to protect ourselves and my parents. My husband wore goggles and a mask in jury duty today (a super crowded space). People probably thought he was nuts. When questioned about it, he said it was to protect his mother in law.
23
@Sonny Beach Feel free to send us money for supplies if that’s how you feel, maybe older generations will finally see that it is in fact dangerous to have many of the young generation in poverty. Good luck
5
The essential prerequisite for successfully slowing & ultimately minimizing fatal infections with CoVID-19, is the ability to anticipate and than act on that anticipation. There exists a small minority within the 5 boroughs who listened to the half-hearted warnings from the W.H.O. back in January. They were the ones who bought N-95 masks from the Paint Dept. at Home Depot or their neighborhood hardware store. They quietly increased their spending at the grocery store & pharmacy. Some made understated suggestions to friends & family members, but most were reluctant to reveal their personal anxiety. The early ridicule of preparation as panic buying had damaging impact on most New Yorkers. While there was a small percentage with the courage to chance the distain of others, none of our political or social leaders dared to speak up in a timely manner. They have all earned our everlasting contempt. Obviously, the germophobe-in-chief heads the list. The C.D.C. has particularly disgraced itself by issuing an endless stream of weasel-words instead of direct, honest information. Clearly, the commands from the White House that, above all the first priority was protecting the Presidents ego & reelection prospects. The news media played along, amplifying the misinformation vetted by lawyers, that protected immediate financial interests rather that providing the information that would guide citizens toward decisions that saved lives. They knew exactly what they were doing!
14
@mike4vfr
This is exactly my experience. I recognized this as a tumultuous crisis in mid January and started reading medical journals and news reports about it. I spent the past 4 days stocking up my elderly mother's house with food, Purell (which I purchased a month ago), wipes, Cold Eeze, 2 N95 masks, and a huge pot of chicken soup. I informed her about the virus and made her promise to stay away from people, telling her to assume everyone has it (she was shocked to hear it spreads asymptomatically). And now I sit watching people gradually start to catch up. It's very alienating. But I am glad I took care of Mom.
5
Good for you! You have earned a clear conscience on this & hopefully additional years of the love & support that your Mom provides. I am motivated by exactly those same circumstances.
Soon. Unfortunately, not soon enough... all restaurants will be required to have wash up sinks outside the bathrooms. Fast food restaurants: several. Right after one orders, the sinks are next. Think of all the diners who start eating with their hands when they just came off the street.
4
Its funny that you think this is remotely plausible. It won't happen, way too expensive and complicated. We can't even test people for coronavirus, let alone implement an ineffective solution that would require billions of dollars in the US alone.
2
@Judith Dyer, I sometimes attend retreats at a center where they have sinks (full counter, sinks and mirrors) outside the bathrooms, adjacent to the dining room. Inside the bathroom they have just a sink, no counter, no mirrors. I think they got that completely backwards!
Kosher restaurants have these already. Kosher diners ritually wash hands before eating.
3
I'm not exactly sure what "self quarantine" means. I am retired, but my husband still works. Does it mean that he has to go live somewhere else?
3
@de'laine, I have been faced with that conundrum myself, as my spouse travels internationally for work. The best advice I found was from BBC.com:
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-51506729
and if that link does not work, Google “BBC should I self isolate and how do I do it”.
It means that everyone should severely limit any time spent outside or gathering with other people. You do not have to isolate yourself from your husband, but most workplaces should be making employees work remotely if possible. If your husbands employer isn't doing that, then your husband should be washing hands regularly.
@Passion for Peaches My husband traveled to Israel for a week and just returned before the country issued a mandatory 14-day quarantine for those entering Israel. He was due to leave to go to an international meeting in Canada next week, but the organizers came to their senses and canceled.
If he had gone, I told him that when he came back he would have to quarantine himself in our master bedroom for two weeks and he would get food on a tray that he could pick up outside his door. He is 70, I am 66.
3
Over here in Spain, one man has been responsible for managing the Covid-19 situation until now. He is an epidemiologist with tremendous experience who successfully guided Spain through the Ebola crisis five years ago. He's been giving a daily briefing on the news for the last few weeks and is known to be forthcoming and transparent and entirely non-political. Yesterday he suddenly "disappeared" and was replaced by the Health Minister: the entire tone has changed, and we are looking at an Italian-style lockdown starting very soon. People were bunker-buying today in the capital... Politicians are not concerned about proper management of crisis situations; their only concern is to have it go on record that they are doing/did something... even if it is useless and only serves to increase anxiety and panic among citizens.
11
@Kris Sorry to hear, and gee, that sounds familiar, sadly.
1
Protip: Stop storing frozen vegetables under your girlfriend's dining room table. They should probably go in the freezer.
161
@JRK
You have a freezer? That's miraculous. As a New York renter, I'd have enough freezer capacity for a 5x11 envelope... folded. I'm not freezing anything that isn't already cooked. That would provide one person 4 or 5 meals per week. That's it.
You also have to assume the power is going out too. A freezer is only good for about 3 days without electricity. What do you do with frozen vegetables when you have an electric range? If your meals aren't ready to eat, you'll run into problems without an alternative fuel source.
You can in fact make a very efficient water boiler with a soda can and some rubbing alcohol. However, you aren't cooking frozen peas for a family of four on an alcohol stove. Before you criticize, you should judge your own preparedness.
3
@JRK Tell our beloved headless leaders to calm down and realize you cannot quarantine a virus you do not understand. Let it run its course develop reliable tests, successful treatment and hopefully a vaccine. We can call it the Chinese disease.When syphilis was introduced to Europe the French called it the Italian disease and the Italians called it the French disease.
karlhatten
@JRK Someone should tell millennials how frozen vegetables work!
8
Makes me glad that I no longer ride the #7, F and R train into the city. Not to say that the virus isn't everywhere, even in New Jersey. Just glad I no longer ride the trains to work.
1
Why are people stockpiling water?
16
PANIC!!! But seriously, most places in the US does not have clean enough tap water to drink so many people need to stock up on bottled water which is clean.
@Gerald 1 gallon of water weighs 8 pounds. Better to have a portable water filter, steri-pen and Chlorine Dioxide Water Purification Tablets and store it all in a HD bucket.
3
@Garrett
‘ most places in the US does not have clean enough tap water to drink’
Not true. Be careful with superlatives.
7
What the heck? Why are you stockpiling water, unless you just want to pollute with all the leftover plastic bottles. Toilet paper - got it, especially if you get a fly-like illness. Water? Don't your taps work?
11
Ohio has some of the worst tap water qualities in the country, with an ancient deteriorating pipe infrastructure. Nearly 1 in 4 americans have contaminated tap water in their homes.
1
In the unlikely event that utility companies were severely understaffed due to illness, it is possible that there'd be a disruption in water service.
The CDC recommends storing two weeks worth of drinking water in the event your water supply is contaminated or cut off. That translates to one gallon of water per day for every member of the household (and additional for pets). This is not hysteria, it’s standard preparation for a potential crisis, or pandemic.
1
Just eat oatmeal.
7
3,287
That’s how many people die every day on average im car accidents, every day, for years. You going to stop driving ?
The NYT is pushing people into a frenzy.
5
I wear my seatbelt. I don't run through traffic. Individuals in a society should minimize their exposure to infectious diseases and attempt to limit transmission. But I guess since it's more likely that I'll die to a car, I'll just give up.
3
There seems to be a lack of multidimensional perspective in thinking about this virus. If you are young and healthy, it is established that you are at low risk, it is also established that while you may be asymptomatic you can easily infect others who may not be low risk. Besides, if you were in contact with a known case, then you might be forced into a quarantine situation. Some extra food and supplies might come in handy then. We all have a responsibility toward others and to ourselves to follow the guidelines. Is that too much to ask for?
11
They are going to create a TP shortage! OMG!
2
What a difference a decade or two makes! I see this threat not as an inconvenience but as a real existential threat - like life and death. As I understand it, the risk among young children, millennials and generally anyone born after about 1960 is relatively low for a serious outcome. On the other hand for those of us born in the 1950's and 1940's contracting C-19 can have a terminal outcome, just because of the age factor. Maybe this is nature's way of getting rid of the deadwood...but that doesn't have any comfort for me at all. You won't see me around much!
193
Deadwood? You mean like the most knowledgeable and experienced scientists in the country? Like Nancy Pelosi and RBG? Like Liz Warren? Truly offensive.
14
@bobkarstens
My experience here in Seattle has been the opposite. I’m a Millennial, have been following this since early January, and stocked up a bit over two weeks ago, as soon as the first community transmission occurred here in the US.
In contrast, the older folks I work with—and my parents—are much less concerned and don’t seem to perceive a significant threat. I think I’ve managed to get my mother to come around, but no dice on the rest of the elders in my life.
I feel bad, because while I’m not too concerned about my personal health (under 40, no preexisting conditions), I really don’t want to catch it and spread it to folks who are more vulnerable.
22
@Patrick Moore
Thank you Patrick! So glad to hear of your mindfulness. In my little corner of the same city I’ve watched all ages be thoughtful and mindful. It’s been a bonding experience. Not the one we wanted but the one we have.
1
Refreshing take, thanks. I wish you well in your small space. At least there’s less to disinfect. :)
5
This is reminiscent of the AIDS epidemic with people adamant about not changing their lifestyle even if it meant putting someone else's life in danger. Curious how the cavalier attitude amongst the young and healthy will change in the coming weeks.
6
If you're a Millenial. you should be more scared for your parents' and grandparents' health than your own.
18
Because "Millennials" are the only people in NYC that have low incomes and live in tiny apartments.
12
Am I the only one who believes the panic is way overblown?
It’s a virus. It’s serious on the level, or perhaps slightly greater than, the yearly flu.
The is no current way to immunize yourself.
Therefore, conduct you life as you would for the flu if you didn’t have a flu shot. Cover your mouth/nose if you sneeze, wash your hands regularly, and if you have any symptoms (flu or otherwise) be aware of folks with at-risk immune systems and keep away.
Otherwise, go about your lives. This is nuts.
7
@Mike it does have 30 times the mortality rate of the flu - a bit more than slightly greater
11
@jeffk
We don’t know that, because many cases are undiagnosed and/or selectively diagnosed due to circumstances. Flu diagnoses are over a long time, we’re just gathering data on C, but even so, the overall population data isn’t near your claim.
1
Everyone should have 2 weeks of food per person and pet on hand because you never know what might happen. Since we saw this coming in January, people should have had time to gradually build up supplies to 3-4 weeks.
I would leave the hand sanitizer on the shelf, but that is just me as I prefer to not have that goop getting into my body and food. I also would not go hog wild on the disinfectants for my home. The key is to wash away the bacteria and viruses, not leave the 10% that were not killed in the initial assault on your counter. My Ultra Orthodox Jewish friend was really on to something by cleaning her kitchen with a steam cleaner. We are healthier now that we stopped using so many disinfectant filled cleaners. Read the cleaner's instructions. Most say to 'wash' the surface after using their product.
I am at higher risk because I am taking immune system suppressants to control my auto immune diseases. My family is preparing for 6 weeks of reduced contact and work from home. And if this turns into nothing in my area, then I don't have to go to the grocery store for a month or so (huge bonus).
The only fools are the ones who did not heed the warnings and did not prepare. Props to you Mr. Winters and your girlfriend, ignore the boo birds. May you and your girlfriend enjoy the best of health.
15
Stop panicking and stop fretting. If you are in doubt just get extra Purell, soap, paper towels. Get food for 2 weeks! All this stockpiling only results in shortages for those who really need it. And most just self-quarantine. I'm sure you have enough space if you are living in it.
38
There’s no purell to be had. Nor disinfectant wipes, alcohol wipes, or rubbing alcohol. Gone. I’ve been to four drugstores in a tiny area of New England— nothing available.
21
@NNI, have you been shopping lately? no hand sanitizer to be had. Costco was out of paper towels and TP yesterday, as well as all sanitizing screaming products.
10
I used to live in a 350 square foot apartment in San Francisco with my boyfriend. Where would 2 weeks of food have been stored?
5
Hate to break it to you Talmon. New York is riding this one out. The government's only essential function right now is preventing mass hysteria and lawlessness. We don't want people breaking shop windows. Otherwise you're playing cee-lo with a bank. The virus is the bank.
I've wondered what I would do myself if I were caught in my small New York City apartment. Two-bedroom with the living room converted into a third. The answer is not much. You might have as many as six people sleeping in 700 sq feet. One was a professional dog walker. There's not much chance of avoiding the virus.
My solution is the same one I have here. I assume everyone is getting sick. There's no way to contain the virus in New York. By the time you know, it's already too late. Stock up on food you would eat anyway. If they close the markets, you're pretty much up the creek regardless.
I don't expect New York can or will close markets. You're living in a regional pandemic dude. Manhattan is the viral version of "Escape from New York" or "28 Days Later." You're a diseased island. You'll simply have to deal for the moment.
1
Talman Joseph, I love your article because it’s well written, well reported, and well edited. It gives me hope! The NYT has talented young journalists in its ranks (you among them, obviously) and you had the journalistic chops to tackle what could be viewed as an obvious story (“So Talman, what are you and your Millenial friends doing to prepare??”) and make it ever so much better than that. I don’t know if this is your first NYT byline but I know it won’t be your last. I’m also glad you didn’t wait til you were on your deathbed, struck down by Covid-19, to write this.
6
Italy is going through hell. In 11 days went from a few mild cases to total overwhelm of their medical system capacity to cope. Their doctors are recommending social distancing to flatten the curve of infection and avoid their fate. Be prosocial and start staying home as much as humanly possible for two weeks to slow contagion.
10
@Luccia Doctors in Northern Italy are having to decide who is worth treating on respirators, and who isn't. There isn't enough equipment. And Milano is in the richest region in Italy. Treat a 40 year old, or an 80 year old? At least the older patients had a life. That's what it's come down to in Italy. Other countries could gradually be overwhelmed, as well. At least in Italy, patients don't have medical debt hanging over them. How much does it cost to spend five nights in a U.S. hospital? More than most people have. Thanks, Republicans.
26
@Mike C.
Thank the Dems too. Biden says we cannot have Medicare for All, He was against universal single payer too as was Pelosi.
The Dems will nominate the wrong person and there will be more pandemics in the years to come.
1
I am a healthy 71 year old in the independent section of a continuing care community. The department of health mandated a no visitor
Policy, no trips, no meetings, no non urgent outside activities. We have no flu or Corona in the community at this time. We are about 85 miles from the epicenter of the epidemic in New Rochelle. Since our age makes us high risk, they are doing this to keep us safe. So I am at the other end of the spectrum. Thanks for following the rules.....be safe....and maybe we will both survive this scary time.
Michele
18
Many people have never heard of the "Spanish Flu" and the 50-100 million world-wide fatalities in 1918. By the way the Spanish Flu wasn't from Spain, it was reported in the Madrid newspapers, who were free to write and cover the news during World War I, they were a neutral country. Turns out the Allies imported 240,000 workers from Northern China to Europe, to help dig trenches and help in the war effort. And they did it in 1917....what a coincidence!
6
i just panic bought a bunch of stuff. get it before it sells out.
3
In my business I have received three eNewsletters so far from marketing agencies each with a feature article recommending how best to handle the Covid-19 outbreak. But of course after that feature article in the eNewsletter is where they tell you how if you hire them they can help grow your business. When I read these eNewsletters two things came to mind. One was why would I take medical advice about a deadly virus outbreak from a marketing agency's eNewsletter? Two was a feeling of disingenuousness, their disingenuousness. Because by pretending they were concerned about the virus outbreak, they were really trying to make money by telling you they can help you grow your business.
2
One more time for luddites: Over 80, smoker with underlying health issues.
@Mia
One more time for the Know-Nothings, experts think ( they don't know) that people under 30 are at lower risk but there have been cases in China where people as young as 9 years old have died from Corona virus. Experts also strongly believe (and have some proof) that the under 30 crowd are very likely spreaders of this disease. As an FYI many under 40 have autoimmune diseases that will put them at a higher risk.
Bottom line, experts really are not sure so they are taking the safest approach.
5
With all due respect to Alexandra and her tweet, the fact of the virus is that a) it is extremely contagious, b) asymptomatic patients make the contagion factor worse, c) living and/or commuting in NYC makes getting it a matter of inevitability or fate, and d) most people will have, at worst, a cold from it. Hence the c'est la vie attitudes and crowded bars. Why avoid getting some drinks with your peers when you spend an hour or so every day crowded in a subway car, maskless, with strangers?
Yes, the highly vulnerable can suffer greatly, but the real danger, as usual, comes from people overreacting or the government taking too heavy-handed an approach.
The best we can hope for now is for speculators to stop hoarding rubbing alcohol. Otherwise, whatcha gonna do?
58
@Clotario
“Yes, the highly vulnerable can suffer greatly, but the real danger, as usual, comes from people overreacting or the government taking too heavy-handed an approach.” Clotario, the highly vulnerable are grandparents, and loved ones suffering from cancer and other illnesses. Why do you downplay that concern? When hospitals are overrun with this disease, which many expect to happen very soon, many of these vulnerable people may not have a hospital bed.
111
@Clotario . . . I think what Alexandra meant was that the older people can overhear younger people saying things like, "what's the big deal, only the old people will die."
Which is a bit insensitive actually.
So she was asking for a little sensitivity from people who are conversing about the virus and the fatality rate. Hard to ask for common courtesy these days.
101
@Selden Prentice
Not sure how any of that applies to my post. As stated, most people will suffer at worst a cold. The vulnerable may/will suffer, but the rest of us need to get on with our lives. Should we all stop taking the subway? And if we have to take the subway, where transmission might well be virtually guaranteed, what practical suggestions for ceasing the spread should we take? Should we all stop going to the store, walking outside, going to work, etc. etc.?
Suggesting the world shuts down until we get an all clear would do more harm than good, for the old, young, healthy, infirm and otherwise.
5
While young people make these preparations, there is one more thing they can do: stop vaping! If you think you are young and healthy, don’t be too comfortable. Young people who vape get very serious respiratory problems that make them deathly ill at the best of times. I have seen one too many spending weeks in ICU on a ventilator just trying to survive.
197
@Jitka
It will be interesting to see if people who are vaping get hit hard. One would think the damage vaping does to the lungs would put average users at a higher risk.
11
@Jitka as I and many others with more knowledge have often said, it's likely that the people who are getting serious respiratory problems from vaping are those who have vaped bootleg THC liquids. I am, however, open to be proven wrong (although I'm tugging away at my nightly Juul as I type).
Actually, I don't see many people at all vaping any more--everyone seems to have gone back to good ole cigarettes, because of all the conflicting information about how and which kind of vaping actually causes problems. Surely they can't be in a better position should they become infected.
But judging from your post you may be a medical professional, so I'd be interested to hear your perspective on that.
1
Thank you for saying this.
The media has blown this way out of proportion for a disease that is not much more deadly than the common flu that kills a few tens of thousands of people in the US every year.
Yes, the number of confirmed cases will go much higher, especially as more testing comes online.
Yes, some more people will die, particularly those already vulnerable (elderly, compromised immune systems, etc.).
Yes, you should wash your hands more than you normally would, and avoid getting sneezed on.
Yes, you should listen to the CDC.
No, you should not listen to Facebook or your friends.
No, you should not hoard toilet paper (seriously?!) or bottled water.
No, you should not wear face masks unless you're a medical professional, have a compromised immune system, or are already sick (see above about listening to the CDC).
No, you will probably not die from this.
No, you should not change your life.
STOP PANICKING. The panic is far worse than the disease.
145
The CDC says this virus IS worse and deadlier than the flu. They are also saying YES you should change some behaviors, including older adults stay off cruise ships (and planes), and have a plan for in case you are quarantined or otherwise affected.
215
@Dave K.
According to Marc Lipsitch, Professor of Epidemiology at Harvard and director for the Center for Communicable Disease Dynamics, current infection models show Covid-19 with the potential to infect 20 - 60% of adults worldwide, with a death rate holding steady in around 2% of those cases. If 20% of America's 320,000,000 +/- population got sick, and of these 64,000,000 people 2% died, that would be roughly 1,280,000 people. There are far too many variables at this stage to state that number with certainty of course, but that is what current projections as of March 10 2020 look like.
Keep in mind: That's the low end of the worst case scenario. While hoarding TP won't do anything to help you, comparing it to the common cold is a bit disingenuous.
268
@Dave K. "not much more deadly than the common flu" This isn't correct. The case fatality rate for the common flu ranges from .5% to around 1% depending on the year. The case fatality rate for COVID-19 is approx. 3%" This might not seem like a big difference but it is.
132
As the caretaker for two parents in their 80's, I can't afford to be snarky or complacent. Their lives may depend on the advice I give or the places they go. At this time, even though there are no confirmed cases in our state, we are flush with hand sanitizer, wipeys, extra food provisions, and a sense that it's arrival is inevitable. To wit, they are not going to the hospital unless it's absolutely necessary, no shaking of hands, no touching of face with hands, move away from someone who looks or acts sick, and I am prepared to self-quarantine to protect them if necessary. I am hopeful that the health authorities will be able to contain this virus before it reaches crisis stage. I yearn for leadership that speaks to truth and scientific fact, not politicizing what could easily end up being a humanitarian disaster.
351
@Valerie Wells, your parents are just as susceptible to a bad flu. I’m sixty and was absolutely knocked flat by last year’s flu. I experienced serious breathing problems and was bedridden for nearly two weeks. I was so weak I blacked out, when I got up to use the loo, and broke a couple ribs in the fall. And I had gotten the flu shot!
Just remember to put this into perspective.
That said, it is insulting to “older” people and those with chronic health conditions when reports say that most of the deaths have been among the elderly and those with existing health issues, as if they are a disposable population. A report I heard from Italy mentioned the shortage of ventilators in hospitals, and the real possibility that triage may be necessary to allot them. An 80 year old would go without, in favor of a 30 year old. Horrible thought.
77
That’s the same situation here. Only 70k ventilators available in the US; with many in use.
Should it come to it; many hospitals will have to make heartbreaking decisions about who gets one.
We’re living in a mess of a country. No small thanks to our current leadership.
84
@Valerie Wells - I did notice that New Mexico has yet to report a single Covid-19 case. Do you think it could be the preventative nature of green and red chile?
13
Thanks for keeping the economy going along. We’ll need that as much as our the studio apt. bunker supplies stashed therein.
4
Our son in Sicily is plainly worried. The entire country of Italy is now not allowed on the roads, without written permission. He can't even go to the beach two miles away. He thinks they have enough food and water for a while. Today's one-day death toll in Italy is 168.
10
Highly recommend a bidet attachment, with or without threat of Corona.
6
I'm 40 years old but part of the high-risk population. Feeling pretty smart that we did our stockpiling 2 weeks ago, before people got crazy and greedy. But also feeling quite helpless because while I work remotely, I have two kids under 10 who are still going to school everyday, and both have an amazing ability to bring back germs to our home. I'm hearing recommendations for "social distancing", so I'm hoping they close the schools so that I don't have to stop kissing and hugging my kids.
12
@Tom Thumb
If you stockpiled, even ahead of the crowd, does that not make you crazy and greedy?
3
Not at all.
I’m just going to order all my survival supplies online and let the UPS driver bear the exposure risks for me. Just my luck I’ll catch something from them at my doorstep and it’s the least I can do for my fellow human.
3
There is something to be said for planning ahead. I have been under self-quarantine since this morning. I woke up feeling like a bus had hit me all of a sudden, with a cough and some asthma-like symptoms. No fever though... or maybe a bit... I did not dare go to the store for fear of spreading what probably isn't but could be the Coronavirus. As a result, my preparedness level is the following:
20-pound bag of dry cat food. Check
Coffee. Check
Milk. Check
Two ibuprofen pills
The cat is looking good for the long haul. Me, not so much...
50
@Kris, the pet food is something to keep in mind, especially if it is the mass market variety. Much of the protein ingredients for lower-priced pet food is sourced overseas. Some comes from China. So there could be gaps in supply chains. I have my dog food delivered and it is manufactured in Canada, so I don’t keep an extra month’s worth on hand. But I may order an extra bag just in case.
3
@Kris
Dry cat food is nutritionally complete for humans.
3
@Kris Thanks for the laugh - I needed it.
6
Can no one in this country go without bottled water? This Aquafina obsession is incredibly wasteful of natural resources, nor do we have adequate capacity to recycle all this plastic. Even China now refuses America’s waste. If NYC water tastes so bad, why not just buy a big pitcher and use a filtration system. On the go, get a thermal plastic container. I enjoy spring water too, but rarely buy it. And when I do, the bottles get reused dozens of times. I now see large shopping carts filled with nothing but bottled water. It’s very saddening.
63
@Tom I too find stockpiling water baffling. It's a disease not an earthquake. Taps will still flow.
(FWIW, NYC tap water tastes fantastic)
34
@Tom
NYC tap water tastes great.
I’ve been drinking it from the tap for 70 years.
7
When a hurricane or a blizzard is on the way and everyone stocks up on supplies for being trapped in the house for a long time, no one laughs. They nod and say, "Well, they're being responsible. Goodness, think of going OUT in that weather! You'll put first responders at risk! Good job getting ready and saving lives." How is this any different than a looming hurricane or snow storm?
18
@Kat Literally no one has ever responded to another human being stockpiling supplies by thanking them for saving the lives of first responders. When next you choose to embellish on a perfectly defensible point, please think bells and whistles and not pyrotechnic displays.
3
This corona virus scare will drift out of the headlines, like last seasons wild fire stories. Nonetheless, you should maintain your stash.
Paper products and clothing can be stored in vacuum bags.
Don't store gallons of water. Have clean 1 gallon water bottles ready to fill.
Have rechargeable AA and AA batteries and chargers.
A couple of flashlights.
A backup battery for your phone or tablet.
A paper list of phone numbers, account numbers and passwords.
Small bills, currency. Not small utility bills.
If I left anything out, think "Camping".
1
@Mike
We're prepping for a pandemic, not a hurricane or blizzard. Think food. meds, OTC meds, personal care products, TP and a way to entertain yourself.
2
I'm fascinated by this fixation with loading up on toilet paper. Article on CNN says it's a psychological means of feeling one has some control in an otherwise uncontrollable situation.
Odd way of showing it.
When this crisis passes, and it will pass, I guess no one will need toilet paper for a long time. That should mean great sales prices for the rest of us!
But my other point is why are Millennials stocking up on all this stuff. I though the coronavirus was their plot to kill off all us "woke Boomer" types once and for all.
Seems the death list is weighted towards our end of the age spectrum -- not theirs.
7
@George S. I'm not a millennial... I didn't buy masks or hand sanitizer. The alternative to no tp is worse than no mask , CNN 's expert is overthinking things lol.
BTW don't forget to buy a little extra pet food, just in case.
@George S. "CNN says it's a psychological means of feeling one has some control in an otherwise uncontrollable situation."
Research the toilet paper alternatives. Then go buy some more TP.
@Mike Do people not just... have... toilet paper? That’s what’s confusing to me. My roommate and I can go several months with a big pack of rolls from Walmart, so people buying more than that seems to suggest either a) everyone else’s family literally lives roll to roll in ordinary circumstances or b) everyone else thinks this crisis will last years...
1
I've been buying an extra couple of rolls of toilet paper, soap, and birdseed when I go to the store, the tp was nearly sold out at W-mart here. We have decided to forgo the movies and gathering places for about a month and see if this passes. Worst case scenario, I know how to fish and I have plenty of rabbits that eat my garden in the backyard that should be worried ( don't worry, I couldn't do it :-)
14
I’m making my own homemade toilet paper. It’s easy and fun to do. Wheeeee!
If you're a millennial without health problems that put you at risk and you're stockpiling cleaning supplies, you're part of the problem.
20
@not nearsighted
Well, no. Anyone could get quarantined at any time based on their contact with an infected person. And we have no idea if deliveries to stores will be interrupted in the near future, making it impossible to basic supplies.
19
@David Siegel it's that kind of paranoid thinking that will ensure that the people at most risk of serious illness or death (older people and/or people with respiratory conditions) will not have access to the preventative supplies that they absolutely do need (*need* as opposed to *want*) to prevent getting sick. Sometimes you have to weigh the benefits against the costs, and in this case that means that as a younger person (which I am) you should try to take only the supplies that you need in the present. Hoarding cleaning supplies only slightly diminishes your individual risk while greatly increasing the risks of more vulnerable populations. It's not ethical.
7
So you want infected millennials to wander the streets and spread the virus just because it’s very unlikely to kill them?
4
I've begin a generation Z Coronavirus prep. All I really need is my cell phone.
19
@CJT If your neighborhood/area is quarantined, who is going to amazon deliver or grocery deliver to you? Yea, your phone and computer will come in real handy then. geez.
@cz don’t forget to stockpile a sense of humor while you’re at it :)
1
Why has not our department of health made it mandatory to chlorine wipe dining tables after every customer leaves ,I was at a popular fast food yesterday in Chelsea and no one even wiped the tables in the hour we were there ,even crumbs from previous
customers were noticed ,this is a large chain of fast food places and shame on them in this virus spread crisis?
4
@Carlyle T.
FACT: if if they did so, you could not trust that they did a proper job anyway.
You must take matters into your own hands to protect your own health and safety.
Carry disinfecting wipes with you and use them on any table and seating before you sit down.
AND... AND.. do NOT touch any condiment bottles at the table unless you disinfect them first.
3
@Carlyle T. B.Y.O.W. (Bring Your Own Wipes)
@Chuck
As you know even disinfecting the area you eat in these NYC establishments like Fresh & Co,Pret e Manger ,ParisBaguette & many Pizza places still
bunch up knives ,forks ,spoons and napkins where everyone touches those implements to just get one service.
We are way behind in at the very least having DOH dictation mandates for restaurants to do this even taking a chance that we have to trust employees to do this ,in any event even disinfecting wipes should be available for public use in food establishments for patrons to use on the chairs and tables, here in NYC it ain't happening .
Oh! also ,where i live in the city all disinfection wipes ,even drugstore alcohol bottles are sold out.
The coronavirus crisis is hardly limited to millennials, though I do remember the days of living in a tiny apartment in NYC.
Two days ago the US State Department advised Americans, especially the elderly, to avoid cruises, warning that they present a higher risk of coronavirus infection and make U.S. citizens vulnerable to possible international travel restrictions, including quarantines.
However coronavirus and quarantines aren’t the only dangers cruise lines pose to travelers.
My wife and I are in our 70’s so yesterday I called Regent cruise line to cancel our upcoming cruise to the Baltic. I was informed that our $4,000 deposit would not be refunded but put in a “Reassurance Account” and applied to a future cruise that must be booked within a year.
No one knows if the coronavirus will be gone in a year, my wife and I are getting older, and based on recent events we have no confidence in the ability of Regent and other cruise lines to keep their ships from becoming floating Petri dishes.
Exposure to coronavirus is frightening, disruptive and dangerous whatever one’s age, so think twice—or 3 or 4 times—before booking with Regent or any other cruise line; they do not refund deposits even when their trips are scheduled to stop in countries with confirmed coronavirus cases and the US government recommends not taking cruises.
Contact your Senators and Congresspersons to let them know the other dirty secret of Regent and other cruise lines: no refunds of deposits.
48
Same with me on a United Airlines tik to and from japan. Have to book by August (as if I’ll know where I want to go, or if it’ll be safe by then) AND have to use it by June 2021. Like this writer, I don’t travel frequently and don’t want to arbitrarily use a 1700.00 credit. So bogus and infuriating. And it’s in US to call our representatives? As if.
3
@Mon Ray Forget about that $4,000, you don't want to be on a cruise ship for the next two years or so. A friend in Miami Beach says there must a dozen of those monsters lined up at the dock, not going anywhere. Probably being fumigated. I would pay at least $4K to never ride on a cruise ship, and be their prisoner. Never did like their big crowds and the cruise ship norovirus, anyway.
9
But the crazy thing is that that isn’t a dirty secret. It’s in your booking agreement. No travel contract, of any nature, will hold up to an out-of-left-field pandemic. Assuming otherwise is foolhardy and presumptive.
4
The "millennial" term attached to this piece notwithstanding, why are so many sneering at Mr. Smith's concerns about preparedness? I just spent last night and this morning talking to my friend who is on complete lockdown on short notice in Italy. Imagine what getting supplies was like last-minute there. I don't think it's selfish of me to go to the store today and make sure I have a full pantry of non-perishables in case NYC goes on some form of lockdown, or one of my family members or I become a risk to others. Seems practical to me.
85
Water? Water??? What's wrong with NYC tap water? My kitchen and bathroom faucet seem to have a decent supply of cold (or hot - your choice) water without having to stockpile it in my small apartment.
39
@Barbara Your water travels through thousands of miles of piping monitored daily by scientists to make sure it's safe. Imagine a scenario where there are no staff to perform these operations.
Apparently you've never lived in a city with a boil water notice or two before.
9
@Michael Note that I did specify *NYC* tap water. And the "Halfhearted Millennial" presumably is prepping for a stay in his (or his girl friend's) small NYC apartment. I'm reasonably confident that NYC apartment gets its water from the miles of piping you cite. I think he's better off stockpiling wine, which sadly does not come out of my kitchen tap!
13
@Barbara I don't understand why some are stockpiling water either. NYC tap water is well known for excellence.
4
The frame of this story — that stockpiling is necessary or prudent — is another example of this paper’s contribution to public panic. Clicks (and comments!) may sell papers, but The Times might consider its responsibility to the public.
19
@Fintan How is anyone supposed to "self-quarantine" at home if they display symptoms if they don't have food already in their house to eat?
24
@Benjamin Winters, that is why Amazon is currently airing so many commercials for their one-day delivery service. Monetize everything, even pandemics.
1
@Fintan
Sounds pretty responsible to me. If you wish to be unprepared, be my guest.
1
As a millennial, I think I need a lot more guidance on what is going on and what specifically I should do. It seems like the media is turning this into some BIG story, partially for click bate. I also suspect that older well-educated professionals (not elderly and retired) are genuinely panicked about coronavirus.
It seems like coronavirus is one of those situations that has to be responsibility managed since the virus is highly contagious and has a higher death rate than the flu especially amongst the elderly and already sick. I certainly don't want to get anyone else sick. That said, if you manage the situation, not a whole lot will happen if you are your 30s like me. You might never get coronavirus. If you do, you'll get sick and stay home a few days and that's it. The biggest threat to me is the lack of good information and everyone else's reaction.
I need (and don't have) good answers on the following:
1. I was planning to visit a friend and attend a work trip next week. The work event is canceled but I still would like to see my friend. Is domestic travel okay? Which cities should I avoid?
2. I am single and live in an apartment. Realistically, when should I stock up on two weeks of supplies (not a month and not this second for sure). If I run low on supplies like food, what do I do?
3. How fast is the disease spreading within the USA and which areas are impact? This determines #1 and #2.
4. What should I do if I get sick with maybe Covid-19?
8
@James Most of these questions can be answered with some fairly quick research.
If you are in WA like your profile says, I would not travel domestically. That is irresponsible.
For stocking up on supplies, the time is now. If you run low on food while isolating yourself, you may go out to get more, while practicing social distancing and excellent hand-washing practices.
For up to date information on impacted areas in the U.S. and internationally, this is an excellent resource: https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
Finally, if you think you may be sick, call your primary care doctor and ask for additional guidance. They will walk you through screening questions to determine need for testing.
14
@MR I do not, nor have I ever, lived in Washington. I just wanted to protect my privacy. I live in a state that has fewer than 10 cases. Most likely it's still too early to stock up, that would be mostly wasted supplies and panic.
I don't actually have a primary care doctor. I move frequently for work and I'm very busy with work on the day-to-day. I am in my 30s in good health. I just haven't bothered.
I think part of the point of the article and motivation for my post is that advice like "stock up on supplies for a month now" or "call your primary care doctor" are great when you are settled down with a family, house, etc. People don't necessarily marry in their 20s any more. That advice doesn't necessarily apply to millennials. To freak out and this sort of advice to a millennials who at most will get sick for a week and recover and aren't settled down yet... it's not taken seriously and in many ways is grossly unrealistic. More facts and more realistic advice would be appreciated.
@James
You had a sentence in the middle of your post that gets to the real issue for everyone around you If you get sick, you put others at risk. If you get unnecessarily sick, you put others at unnecessary risk. If, as a millennial, your unnecessary case is mild, you still put others at unnecessary significant risk. That said, us old folks also have a responsibility to avoid folks like you - lucky enough to be young and healthy, but still able to be a vector. Herd culling is not a moral proposition.
6
Rice is very cheap and calorie intensive. 50 pounds of dried white rice takes up practically no space in a closet. Ditto dried beans, which with rice make full proteins. Ditto a few containers of vitamin and minerals. In an emergency, the goal is to stay alive, not meals fit for the French Laundry.
57
@Snowball Don't forget the hot sauce for those rice and beans...and by the way brown rice is more healthy.
3
@Snowball, yes, when in crisis mode, think soups and stews. Maybe the Times should run a recipe collection for those stuck at home with pantries full of cans and dry goods. But — oh — only those with a recipe subscription will be able to read them. Darn.
4
I'm retired. As such, I can avoid crowds, sneezing, sniffles, hand shaking, elbow bumping, fist bumping, nodding, smiling, laughing and crying in public. The odds of my contracting the virus, given my self imposed , circumstantial, semi isolated lifestyle will, from a mere statistical point of view, serve me well with this virus. I do have to go out for small group yoga, small group Pilates mat classes , shopping at 2 a.m., and dog walking. Other than those activities I don't go into crowds.
9
@Harley Leiber
Honestly, even small group yoga and pilates is a risk right now. These are activities you can and should do at home.
I still visit my sports club, but I am very strict about what I do there and how. No group classes, no use of free weights (which are hard to sanitize), I only use three machines (and only if there is no adjacent machine in use) and I use the same ones each day, sanitizing with my own BKZ wipes before AND after use. I sanitize my hands when I enter the locker room, again after changing clothes, and again after showering and dressing. Basically, I assume anything I touch in public at this point may be contaminated.
9
@Harley Leiber, you shop at 2 a.m.?
@Chuck, yes on even small exercise classes being potential petri dishes. I contracted foot warts (a virus) from my old yoga studio, and there were occasionally outbreaks of head lice in that same studio.
2
Most of the people at my job are young, 30 and under. One of the partners (age 30) told everyone that this virus is "no biggie" and that the media is overdoing it. I wouldn't have minded it except he is a senior-level person who is supposed to be in a leadership role. The few people at the office with diabetes, asthma, etc. were totally trivialized. And you would think most people would be concerned about elderly relatives... oh to be young and thoughtless! I remember those days!
68
@figure8
The partner, in a ‘leadership’ role, is very likely correct.
1
@Mike - Tell that to the people whose relatives have died, or who have elderly family members stuck in nursing homes and whom they can't visit.
5
I guess the answer to the issue posed in the subtitle is simple. Everything any of us do is better than nothing.
7
Surprised at some comments here. I'm impressed with this young person's commitment to not spreading the virus to more vulnerable populations. Yes, the hoarding he's witnessed is selfish and cosmically bad karma, but The Spanish flu of 1918 returned in the Fall to kill large numbers of 20-40 year olds, so maybe young Smith's prep is both wise and fortuitous.
24
But this is not the Spanish Flu. This is nothing like the Spanish Flu.
3
@PeteH
Actually, the initial phase of the Spanish Flu (nobody yet knows exactly what the virus was) was fairly modest, not unlike what was seen from COVID-19 in this first round in China.
But the Spanish flu subsided over the summer and returned with a vengance in the fall of 1918, which is when it really became the killer it is now known to be.
My point? We are still early in the life cycle of COVID-19, and a simple mutation of the virus as it spreads could rapidly raise the mortality rates in those infected by it. I'm not saying it will, only that we must respect the fact that it might.. and prepare accordingly and give it the proper level of healthy caution NOW... not later.
12
Can we just be adult and kind? Get your advice from government health agency sources and listen to the requests from other government agencies (transit, governor, mayor, etc.) about the best community behaviors right now. And please, lets all think about each other, not just ourselves. Actually, focusing on others is a good antidote to fear.
23
@JS
Sage advice.... probably falls on a lot of tone-deaf selfish egos though.
3
Articles like this are not helpful. Just stop. Don't encourage people to panic and run to the store to buy up supplies that we all will eventually need.
27
@Sallie
The author is NOT encouraging hoarding.
The author is encouraging, by example, how to prepare in advance if you are forced into a 14 day forced quarantine, and not starve in the process. When forced into quarantine at home.. the last thing you should be doing at that point is running out for groceries.
A 14 day supply for a small household is NOT a cause for local supplies concern. People buying up large supplies of items though... and thinking about reselling them later at inflated prices IS a problem.. and that is hoarding for profit.
11
In other words, wait, and THEN panic.
@Sallie
It is a good idea for EVERYONE to have some backup supplies of food and other essentials no matter what their age or living situation. This will help them if they need to stay home and not go out shopping due to a big storm, pandemic, unrest, they're home sick or whatever. Articles like this ARE helpful. It's good for millennials and Gen Z to read and act on. Too many are getting the message that they don't have to worry and it's just the "old people" who are going to die.
4
The shelves of my local Trader Joe’s is stripped bare of avocados and bread, there’s nary a toaster to be found at Target, and the local med supply pop up store is sold out of Yeezy face masks.
Come on. A millennial-specific corona virus article?
16
@T. Rivers ==No avocados? The horror.
3
@T. Rivers
This is funny. I'm surprised Kanye hasn't come out with a line of Yeezy face masks.
1
i dont know anyone who is stockpiling for or meds. And we all still go to the gym and Trader Joes etc...
4
"It’s statistically unlikely that I’ll be affected..."
One of theses columns, I would love an ersatz-statistical expert to explain this to me.
You can talk up to me - I do have post grad work in statistical modeling.
15
@SteveRR, I took that to mean that he is in the age group that is — according to statistics — not seriously sickened by Covid-19 exposure. He’s young and healthy, darn him.
3
@SteveRR Haha exactly. These millenial writers... (I am a millenial by the way)
Even a viral outbreak, the greatest equalizer of all, has to be framed in special "Millenial" terms? I really look forward to the day when that term is buried forever.
27
@A reader
How, exactly, is a viral outbreak "the greatest equalizer of all?" Can you not see how this virus outbreak will specifically affect certain groups far more than others? Specifically, people's ability to self-quarantine by working from home or taking sick leave, people's ability to get childcare for their kids whose schools may be closed, people's ability to stock up on supplies / prescriptions, etc.
While I don't agree with the writer's passive endorsement of a supermarket raid, I think there is merit to their assessment of how the virus will affect different generations. Millennials now make up the largest chunk of the US workforce and face economic challenges some older generations simply don't. Naturally, facing a viral outbreak will mean different challenges for younger working Americans.
Your assessment, and the writer's, could use way more nuance. The writer's at least has more thought and substance than yours.
@Connor All good points. I was of course referring to the fact that viruses infect all (and in this case seem to kill older people more than younger ones), but you're correct that there are vast differences in privilege, access, and work benefits, and that needs to be talked about.
I was hasty in my comments, and if I could retract them I would.
1
I have decided that people in this country have gone mad. Selfishness rules. Yesterday I went to a Costco store, in a small city that is not in the grip of an epidemic. The area that usually is stacked head-high with paper goods on pallets was empty. The shelves held no products made by Clorox or Lysol (or their Kirkland versions, either). The pharmacy section was out of isopropyl alcohol (people making their own hand sanitizer). People need rubbing alcohol for injections and first aid! An employee told me that they stock the paper goods in the morning and the crowds rush in when the doors open and grab everything. Why? I think people must be reselling the stuff. I was there for regular shopping, not for panic hoarding — we keep a supply of paper goods and cleaners at all times because...ahem...we shop at Costco — but this shook me. The only people I saw in masks, at Costco, were a Chinese man and his son, and they were wearing the serious version that the news reports even hospitals can’t buy anywhere now. They were not wearing gloves, and the masks don’t make a difference, in exposure, so why hoard them? Elsewhere in town, the only masks I have seen were cheap versions worn by pharmacy employees (the senior citizen cashier at the drug store did not have a mask, which is interesting). None of this is logical. I have been using more hand sanitizer and consciously avoiding face touching. I have always been a devoted hand washer. But hoarding? No. Calm down.
69
@Passion for Peaches : Just FYI, in Asia, it is customary for a sick person to wear a mask in order to protect everyone else. The fact that he wasn't wearing gloves reinforces that interpretation. (But I do agree that everyone should quit hoarding, etc.)
2
@Passion for Peaches Items are flying off of the shelves near the third coast. I saw some dazed folks yesterday stocking up on … toilet paper. Lots of folks in the Walmart had full shopping carts. That's rare. I've even begun thinking about getting a freezer, just to stock up on frozen veggies...
@Cynthia, don’t assume that I am some kind of xenophobe! I was just waiting for someone to insinuate that, because that is the usual pattern here on NYT comment threads. I have traveled extensively through Asia. My husband does so constantly, for his job. These were not the everyday, pleated, loop over the ear masks you see there. They were medical-grade masks. I know the difference. The lack of gloves coupled with those medical-grade masks indicates a lack of understanding about how the virus infects people, blind panic, and a self-centered approach to dealing with Covid-19.
3
The biggest question is how old are you? Are you over 65, do you have major health issues or a suppressed immune system?
Are you a health care worker who is constantly coming in contact with the virus without adequate protection?
What we're seeing from the data coming out of China is the old, the sick and the highly exposed are at risk of death, not everyone else.
If my husband didn't have COPD, and I didn't take care of my 85 year old mother, I wouldn't be too fussed about it. It isn't hitting young people and kids.
I don't get why nobody is mentioning church, with their high proportion of old people and mixed ages, as a place of spreading infection. Churches are way more likely to be sources of contamination than schools full of the young, who are relatively unaffected. This is not an anti-religion, anti-church comment! God doesn't protect against viruses.
35
@Sharon
Top officials have indicated any one above 60 or with the chronic conditions, should not be attending church.
12
@Sharon As Cathy says, they are suggesting that people over age 60 limit any trips outside, including church, senior centers, etc.. Not religious myself but I believe the mega-churches are prepared: many already hold some services, archive videos online. The Buddhist meditation group near me has also been doing this for years.
3
@Sharon
A DC church rector who gave Communion and shook hands with worshippers is now hospitalized with the virus. I can't imagine how many people have to self-quarantine now and wonder how many may become sick. Most churches stream their services online so it is less of a risk to worship at home for the time being instead of going to the services.
4
New Yorkers worrying about catching the coronavirus is like Californians worrying about earthquakes, or South Floridians worrying about hurricanes. For the most part people choose to live where they live and understand and accept the "risks" associated with it. You take reasonable precautions and go on with your life. You don't whine about it or look for sympathy from others.
13
50,000+ of New Yorkers may die from this by the end of the year.
But stiff upper lip, everyone!
1
Talk about being over dramatic. Buy some oatmeal or whatnot and be done with it. You don’t need 6 months of food.
13
@AW
You know YOU are right. YOU don't need 6 months worth of food. Please keep making your daily trips to the market. You know better than the experts.
If people want to have a month or so worth of food on hand it won't hurt. We have no idea how this is going to affect food supplies since we get so much imported food.
2
You guys are so funny. You do know cornavirus can cause lung lesions, which you'll have to live with for the rest of your lives. And to be honest, your New York spaces aren't really that small. Hong Kongers live in much smaller (and more expensive) spaces than you and they're well prepared.
22
@J.Abroni Dwayne Johnson I'm an immunologist specialized in lung biology. Coronaviruses do not cause 'lesions' that last the rest of your life.
21
@local Doctor, your information is not up to date. The fact is that not enough study has been done to draw any firm conclusions. This is a situation where most doctors are not well informed as there is very little literature out yet.
"During the third phase, lung damage continues to build—which can result in respiratory failure. Even if death doesn’t occur, some patients survive with permanent lung damage. According to the WHO, SARS punched holes in the lungs, giving them “a honeycomb-like appearance”—and these lesions are present in those afflicted by novel coronavirus, too."
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2020/02/here-is-what-coronavirus-does-to-the-body/
3
@Nick Actually my info is UTD. I work at an NYC hospital and separately, I've published peer reviewed research articles on lung tissue repair after viral infection. The literature is much, much more complicated than that 1 article cherry-picks. (That's the fault of the media). Of course we don't know the long term effects of this novel strain of coronovirus yet, but it's just panic-inducing and not helpful to say that it will cause lung lesions for the rest of your life. First of all, SARS and MERS are related viruses, but not the same. Also the studies on SARS that reported focal pts of lung 'lesions' were acute in severely affected patients, not chronic (not life-long). These areas of damage ARE largely repaired and aside from short-term risk of pneumonia, the evidence isn't out there that remnants of repaired tissue cause lifelong problems.
PS SARS first appeared ~17 yrs ago, MERS ~7-8 yrs ago. Too short a timeframe to be claiming lifelong 'lesions' causing problems.
Let's both agree that more scientific research is important, and in the meantime it's best to avoid broad, panic-inducing claims. We're all in this together!
12
I don't get the people hoarding toilet paper and bottled water. Do this many people really not have water filters or are they just in total panic mode and think the water mains will shut down? And seriously, how much TP does a person need? These folks do realize they'll run out of food long before their 3 year supply of TP goes dry, right?
16
@Mr. Adams
It takes a least a 0.2 micron filter to remove viruses, check what your water filter has. Most water filters pore size is too large at 1 micron to remove viruses.
1
@Cathy Smithson We're not getting this virus from the water supply.
4
@Cathy Smithson
The chlorine in the water kills viruses and bacteria. Many municipal systems now use UV light to treat water. So if you are really that paranoid, you can and should boil your water or put it in clear bottles outside in the sun.
By the way, you had better check your bottled water source since most use municipal water supplies anyway. And since municipal water tends to be a closed system, the likelihood that viruses will reach the inside of your water pipes is tiny.
4
Talmon, you seem very calm and prepared. I share your nervous anticipation. Perhaps you could lend some tips to Jennifer Senior? I read her article prior to yours, it seems much more frantic on the state of the Coronavirus and unclear on how to handle it.
2
I understand the urge to do something, anything at times like this. My suggestion is to visit the Red Cross's website and follow their emergency preparedness guidelines as best you can.
4
I'm enjoying the opportunity to accrue overtime while others stay home. I live near the epicenter of this outbreak, too. Time and half is time and a half.
4
I am living temporarily in my travel trailer right now and have most all the things recommended. Admittedly, modern trailers have a lot of storage space, but I also get very creative with how I use my space.
Because I live in an isolated area, I have always kept a healthy supply of food, medicine and other emergency supplies. Power can be out for days here and internet is spotty at the best of times. The upside is that it’s pretty easy to avoid human contact!
9
I read the warnings from the health care people at the CDC while waiting to board a flight last Friday. They said that those over 65, like me, should not fly. Oh well. The short flight to San Jose was not crowded and all seats around most passengers were empty. No one was wearing a mask either but we all had hand sanitizer.
2
Don’t worry at all. Just think rationally about what makes sense to do given the situation, and act accordingly.
Life will unfold as it does - your worrying won’t change it one way or the other.
15
"While a 10 out of 10 level of alarm has been rightly discouraged by responsible reporting, establishing what amount of fear is an appropriate sum can feel tricky. Most of us are unsure whether we should be at a three or an eight."
Turns out bouncing between three and eight is more exhausting than being at 10 all the time. I can deal with whatever happens, I just want it to happen already.
16
Stop stockpiling bottled water. It's unnecessary, it's beyond wasteful, and If we lose municipal water, a 30 day supply of food isn't going to save you from what's about to happen.
Do people forget that media sensationalizes things in order to get more people reading / watching and thus more subscribers and/or ad revenue?
140
@Sam The Red Cross recommends that everyone have a 14 day supply of bottled water for emergencies. I generally find their preparedness advice practical and helpful.
70
@Sue That's honestly news to me, but I'm pretty sure that's a catch-all recommendation. Say for if a hurricane or earthquake completely knocks everything offline. This isn't happening here.
17
@Sue
A 14 day supply for a person is about 14 gallons. And even with that you can forget about washing or flushing the toilet. That advice is highly prospective; it is both impractical and unhelpful without an impending issue to be dealt with (hurricane, etc). And for family of four? Unless you have space for a few 55-gallon drums, forget it. Did you read the part in the article about apartment space?
I was at Shop Rite in Jersey City over the weekend and it was a madhouse. And SO MANY people hauling off crates of bottled water! It is wasteful in packaging and money; if you want to have a supply of water for a short-term emergency then fill a few pots. Not really sure what emergency they were preparing for, but it was not a virus.
49
I loved the recommendation yesterday: In NYC, avoid crowds. HAHAHAHAHAHAHHA
256
@Gary J Depending where you are, it can be very easy to do. I walked from the far west village through soho to little italy yesterday morning, and at 9am it was practically empty of walkers. Not even many cars or bikers.
11
@Gary J You do know that most New Yorkers do not live in Times Square, right? It is very easy to avoid crowds here.
8
@Gary J
Dear Gary, In your honor, I am going to avoid the crowded subway and walk across the street to my local pizza parlor and have a mushroom pizza washed down with that health beverage, Diet Coke.
This is going to celebrate the assorted cans of fish that I will buy this afternoon at my packed supermarket. I will walk two blocks in this noble venture.
Yesterday I bought six extra rolls of toilet paper.
Tomorrow I am taking the crowded subway from Manhattan to Fort Greene, Brooklyn, and meet friends at Juniors Restaurant. I love their brisket.
2
There was an article in yesterday's paper about Canadians trusting their health professionals. In 2008 we trusted our economic professionals and 2008 doesn't mean nearly as much here as it did in the USA.
We never had the leadership of Ronald the script reader Reagan to tell us not to trust the experts.
Yesterday's long scheduled appointment for a routine examination at the local hospital was refreshing. No masks they even took away the hand alcohol wash at the front door. The smiles were bigger than usual.The hugs were as warm as ever.
Reagan destroyed America and Trump is just proof of the fine job conservatives have done in in rending the social fabric.
104
@Montreal Moe
Reagan was a very effective frontman for the wealthy right-wing. He looked "Presidential," read his lines convincingly, and never asked any questions.
Trump is a different kind of frontman; an endlessly distracting dumpster fire who keeps everyone so busy they don't notice while agencies are gutted, public functions are privatized, right-wing judges are installed for life, etc.
24
@Montreal Moe
Thanks there Moe, this cannot be emphasized enough.
All that wholesale destruction served with a smile, and still they cheer. The systems and laws put in place then have and still are vacuuming wealth upward, ever upward to just a few individuals. Still they cheer, (and sneer, I might add).
Canadian envy here from a former Detroiter with fond Windsor and St Catherines rowing club memories.
Oh Canada! indeed.
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@Montreal Moe "Don't use hand sanitizers & hug strangers. Ronald Reagan."
Yes, I trust people who haven’t the faintest more than the No biggies or the alarmists. Seems like this bug plays out differently in different populations, so we’ll just have to wait and see.
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@Peter Silverman It plays out differently according to how well the country tests for it and treats it, and according to the availability of hospital beds and ventilators. It's true that Italy is particularly hard hit because they have an older population, but the epidemic is on track to be very bad here if we don't take steps now to slow it. Waiting and seeing is a bad policy.
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