Trump has announced a number of times that he is a great man; possibly the greatest man in history; and that rumours to the contrary are a Democrat hoax.
His wide ranging skill set from Biblical studies to economics, to medicine inclusive of statistical analysis; and judging by that video of him leering at cheer leaders with that guy he was never a fan of, the now deceased prisoner Epstein; he is an expert also in women's studies.
@realDonaldTrump
·Mar 8, 2017
On International Women's Day, join me in honoring the critical role of women here in America & around the world.
Well they are critical all right- critical of him.
I wonder what he means by the critical role of women- having dinner ready? Tic tac testing? Furniture shopping?
Road testing his germaphobia by having coitus without a condom with a porn actress?
His universal acumen as I said, extends to economics- particularly debt and bankruptcy, massive borrowing from Deutsche Bank, attempting to build towers in Moscow and Azerbaijan. The universality of his knowledge is a national treasure. Most presidents don't know everything the way Trump does.
The stock market has never been so strong. No president has ever been so great, women never been so protected from stewardship off their own bodies. There is method in his friendship with the Saudis even after the Khashoggi incident. He was economically protecting the USA by maintaining ties. that is why they stand by America now that petroleum is important.
3
I'd truly hate to define 'value' in my life by something as fickle as shares on Wall Street.
Well, at least I don't have to see my tax dollars plowed into investment bankers again like in 2008. That's a plus. And a bunch of traders got really rich today. All good, I guess.
2
JP Morgan did the same thing in '26. He stabilized the markets temporarily. Then the following Monday the market crashed for good and the Great Depression began.
Obama saved our derrieres in 2008. Do you think Trump is up to it? No? Me neither.
Republicans have to fight their traditions like Clint Eastwood is and get Liddle Donny back into bankruptcy court, very familiar ground for him.
Voting can be a tradition in families. Some have voted only republican way back to Eisenhower and beyond. It's a custom, it's just what a family does regardless of facts, changes in party doctrine and bias.
For example: The house just approved a bill, banning candy flavored tobacco products used in vaping and e-cigarettes. Now one would think that this is a good bill, one that prohibits Big Tobacco from treating our children like swine to be rendered for profit regardless of the cost to our children, their families and tax payers, who have to cover the cost of the health consequences. Right?
However, the 'Big Business' supporting Trump gang and the traitorous republican senate, will not pass this bill. Like Oxytocin's release by the Shackler family's Purdue Pharma and others like them, republicans continue to allow Big Business to prey upon the citizenry.
Most republican voting families will not have the capacity to evaluate this. The will do what they're told and vote republican because to do otherwise would challenge their minds in ways that are discomforting. Wake up republicans!
5
Try 1929
1
Throw all your 401k into bonds tomorrow. We lost a bunch yesterday, got some of it back today. I personally am not taking another chance. Tomorrow at 9:01 AM my entire 401k is going into the bond fund (which is up 3.5% this year).
1
There's so many moving pieces related to The Virus, but one personal observation is that restaurants are going to get hit hard.
I like to think that I'm a rational person who filters the facts before acting, however, I find myself suddenly worrying about the people preparing my food. I eat out every meal except breakfast. If I'm thinking about changing my eating habits, I have great concern for restaurant owners and staff.
Hopefully, this all blows over in 2-3 months and they can hang on.
@Jim
It will be April. Cult leader Trump will wave his magic wand and it will miraculously disappear. Perhaps by then the political prisoners on the ship will be allowed to disembark.
The oil war between Russia and Saudi Arabia is inflicting serious collateral damage on the U.S. oil industry. This was actually an intended, but unspoken, consequence by both Putin and MBS.
@Mark McIntyre - They will probably damage themselves much more. Oil is basically the only source of revenue for both countries, and they cannot survive on prices this low. Russia needs $50 oil, and Saudi Arabia needs $80 oil to fully fund their countries.
Bail outs and tax cuts?!?!? How is this letting capital markets function?
Investors took on too much risk, their loss is not our problem. The only stimulus worth while would be checks sent directly to impacted workers (aka unemployment protection). Anything else is just protecting profits by redistributing money from tax payers to investors (aka Socialism).
5
Is it possible that Trump is not being transparent with the number of people who have the virus so it will take longer for the numbers to increase, and therefore the timing will be right for him to declare martial law and cancel the election in November?
2
Great that the very stable genius is meeting with executives.
He can share his long experience of bankruptcies and sending a casino broke with them. What could go right? He is great with numbers- look how he predicted the other day that COVID19 would be reduced to zero just about now He is a wizard. Perhaps there should have been a wizard hunt.
5
I don’t trust the “very stable genius” to do anything of use in a time of crisis. If he could trade the lives of his citizens for a healthy stock market, he’d do it in a New York minute. Fortunately, he can’t do that either.
3
Trump states, “Stay calm, it will go away.” Since the market has clawed its way almost halfway back to its start yesterday, I suppose just under half of stockholders are certifiable Trump cult members.
Unfortunately Trump sees this virus exclusively through an economic lens. How can the stock market be propped up? His focus is absolutely backward. If Trump took leadership on the containment side of this health menace the markets would respond positively in due course. Sadly Trump measures his re-election chances on the Dow Jones. Frankly bad for Trump and more importantly bad for America.
3
Makes no sense why there is a bounce. The conditions are the same as they were yesterday. Bouncing because of the possibility of a stimulus, when we don't know what shape it is or the pricetag? The market is ridiculous. I've already emailed my congressman: no bailout to company, yes to safety net for hourly workers.
3
@CT
Newsflash: The Market always behaves irrationally. But the bottom line? The trend is up. Always.
1
@Matt False. Only since 1981 and unlimited money printing.
Trump keeps minimizing Covid19 and comparing it to seasonal flu incidents and related deaths. We don’t have a stimulus package for seasonal flu, do we? Just another attempt to tease and juice the markets.
1
Trump is promising help to the hotel industry...
He is going to send all his supporters a voucher to stay in Mara Lago or Trump Tower.....on the taxpayer's dime.
Seriously:
If you disagree with Trump's self-enriching plan, call or write your congressperson.
This can NOT be allowed...it is a direct conflict of interest and I do NOT want my tax dollars to support Trump's business.
1
Since Trump is already up at 3 am tweeting his unmatched wisdom, he should have handled the 3 am phone call better.
1
COVID-19 is a temporary event but a major warning sign. If Trump is allowed to corrupt the Fed and force his will on Jay Powell...LOOK OUT BELOW!
In essence he's trying to force Powell to cooperate with his scheme to win reelection even if it means pushing the country into depression, a possibility if the Fed pushes rates too low and runs out of ammunition to stimulate the economy in the next recession.
Trump only cares about reelection NOT what his policies could do to harm American's. Anyone who overlooks his COVID-19 response and fails to apply that to his economic policy making is an utter fool likely to be rewarded with significant loss of wealth.
U.S. DEFICIT:
$1,100,000,000,000 +$500,000,000,000 since 1/20/2017
U.S. DEBT:
$23,300,000,000,000 +$4,000,000,000,000 since 1/20/2017
Of course, nothing like a face-saving gesture as more money for the 1% who hold 60% of the nation's wealth. What I’m missing is the familiar hue & cry from Republicans as we encumber our progeny. That’s right! The Democrats were “saving” the economy then. Prediction: Just as the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act of 2017, this supposed stimulus…No alms in the basket for the Middle Class. It all goes in the aforementioned pockets. A Republican Class taking care of its own!
Market recovering? Don’t make me laugh. Dead cat bounce is all. Wait for the end of this week, which happens to be Friday 13th.
2
Oh look!
Biden must have come to the rescue.
Thank you NYT for praising the people's hero for recovering the market with his mere presence.
1
What’s an economic stimulus going to do when the problem is not grounded in economics???
Throw all the money you want at it but it’s not gonna get people on planes, into hotels, or movie theaters, or basketball games, restaurants and college classrooms!
Money is not the “cure” for everything!
The problem is that this is a new virus whose characteristics are not fully known. Read “uncertainty!” That makes it scary. In the long run it may turn out to be no better or no worse than seasonal flu. But that’s not known now. So caution (rightly) has gripped everyone. No amount of money will change that!
2
This is bad news for Democrats and liberals. They want a total crash along with the epedemic.
1
Financial companies line up and beg for bailouts. But don’t give a penny back when the good times are rolling.
2
hold ur positions for this too will pass. culling of the herd (usualky the weak) is a natural occurance. We all get culled eventually.
Can we now call Wall Street a bunch of communists? They have no problem using government to save Wall Street.
Isn’t this blatant socialism for the rich? Why is it called stimulus? Just like they title socialist Bernie Sanders I demand every article put “socialist stimulus” package. Or communist stimulus package.
How many Americans own the majority of stock? 84% of stock is owned by 10% of the people?
1
The real take away here is that the stable's geniass and his appointed physician of medicinal prayer are not working on a an all out effort to come to terms with the coronavirus for the sake of our citizens health. Instead, he's meeting with his boot (and other things lickers) in the Senate because he doesn't like how this "hoax" is hurting Wall Street.
I guess I shouldn't gripe. Some health policy may sneak its way past Pence's thoughts and prayers and "trickle down" to the rest of us.
I don't get it. The US accuses the Chinese government of providing financial support to companies like Huawei. I don't know whether the charge is true. At the same time, Trump is proposing that the US prop up the travel and cruise industries. I'm enthusiastic about helping individual working people hurt by the epidemic. I don't, however, want my tax money going to the owners of cruise companies. If cruise companies want protection from financial downturns, they should either (1) accumulate case as a buffer against bad times or (2) buy private insurance to protect themselves from these losses. Cruise ship owners are a lot wealthier than I am.
I'd say the same thing about the bailouts of AIG and Goldman-Sachs in 2008. Financial institutions should protect themselves by having sufficient reserves. Taxpayers should NOT be bailing them out, with outright payments, or with loans. And the same was true of the automaker bailouts. Our government is enabling bad financial behavior
We accuse the Chinese of doing something that we do very openly.
Helping workers, great!... enriching cruise ship owners, not so great. This is why businesses are supposed to keep some cash and have appropriate insurance.
3
Did the markets bounce back today?
No they did not.
What happened was The Trump Protection Team got together and massively bought the market.
The TPT is a secret behind the scenes working group the president commands, comprised of Treasury Secretary Mnuchin, representatives from the Comptroller of the Currency and the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation, Chairman of the FED, Chairman of the SEC, and Chairman of the CFTC.
Their brief is to collaborate with the big banks such as Goldman and Morgan Stanley in unrecorded transactions to "enhance the integrity, efficiency, orderliness, and competitiveness of our nation's financial markets and maintain investor confidence."
The Trump Protection Team actively colludes with banks to rig the market.
Their official name is the Working Group on Financial Markets but I prefer, "The Trump Protection Team."
Another meeting is scheduled for tomorrow — so much for transparent and free markets.
2
Evidence, please. Or is this one of those dealieboppers where you can’t give evidence because the MIBs hid the evidence, which proves that it’s real because if it weren’t, why would the MIBs be hising the evidence?
Who is making a lot of money in this up and down market? As they say follow the money and I will not be a surprise if it leads to the CCP (Chinese Communist Party). It will be complicated because the CCP is the biggest corporate conglomerate in the World. Many will say it is a political parity not a corporation; I say it sure act like a corporate conglomerate.
Trump's idea of stimulus focuses on the stock market, helping wealthy corporations that have hoarded cash over the past decade, and creating essentially free debt mostly for those who don't need it to in the words of his economic adviser Kudlow 'buy stocks'. And, worst of all, to provide a temporary across the board payroll tax holiday which will only hasten the insolvency of social security and medicare.
The proposal mentioned by Speaker Pelosi would guarantee 14 days sick leave for those workers who aren't already covered, expand the unemployment insurance timeline, and insure that free testing and treatment for the Coronavirus is available to all Americans. This makes far more sense then stimulating an economy that is not in recession and a stock market that may still be overvalued.
But given election year politics, Trump's proposal and its sugar high for investors may pass and if so the democrats as well as republicans should be held accountable for once again favoring wall street over mainstreet.
1
What is a Dead Cat Bounce? I asked myself this after I saw it mentioned here in the comments.
A dead cat bounce is a temporary recovery of asset prices from a prolonged decline or a bear market that is followed by the continuation of the downtrend. A dead cat bounce is a small, short-lived recovery in the price of a declining security, such as a stock.
I learned something today. It is a very interesting phrase and conjures up unusual imagery. I suspect it is correctly use in describing this, because what has change really that would cause a rise. Nothing.
2
A payroll tax cut is a form of economic stimulus. And it benefits the working class. There is a need to stimulate demand and this cut addresses that need. It is similar to what Obama did in 2008 and should not be rejected just because it’s Trump’s idea. Democrats would be making a big political mistake if they rejected a working class subsidy.
Investors are such welfare queens. They LOVE Laissez-faire, minimal government intrusion in the markets as long as they are making money and they want the government to catch them when things inevitably turn down. Privatize the profit and socialize the risk. We have got to change this.
10
@arusso
While busting unions. Don’t forget that. Their authority is beyond question over your well being.
The pattern has been one of volatility more than decline. For every slump there has been a rebound. And this comports with the essence of the coronavirus problem. Uncertainty rules. The harm is not now cataclysmic. But we have no idea where things are headed. And what we don’t know is what causes the most fear.
2
absolutely NO STIMULUS required.
would be a total over-reaction.
let the free-market prevail.
DJIA fair-market-value = 32K
(already massive liquidity & cash in the system with few investment-alternatives for huge-dollar-flows OTHER than U.S. equities and U.S. residential real-estate. coronavirus will be a distant-memory b4 u know it.)
market-corrections are HEALTHY.
some 'backing-&-filling' / consolidation, new-base, short-term & long-term, then next stop = DJIA 32K.
3
@PumpUpTheVolume: Yes, my son explained it to me today. The US is not a capitalist country, where market forces reign, it's a corporatist country, where the role of the government is to support business. And this is true for Democratic, Republican, and Trumpian administrations.
1
Trump better not mess with my social security! His proposed payroll tax cut would undercut social security and disproportionally help richer Americans. Hourly workers (especially in vulnerable service-oriented industries that are already taking a big financial hit) would get zero if they are sent home or fired.
If you want to know how Trump really feels, just check out his Fox cheerleader "Trish Regan" who recently ranted about the great Democratic COVID-19 conspiracy and hoax being levied on her King. Any economic help proposed by Trump would not come from a place of genuine concern for the well-being of our country, but from a calculated PR move meant to give the perception that he's actually being responsive so that he can bolster his re-election prospects or his wallet.
9
Don’t cut employers’ share of payroll taxes.
5
March back the billionaire tax giveaway!
No excuses not too.
Payroll tax, amounts to little and ultimately does not "stimulate" the economy.
Remember GW Bush using that tactic while he was in office. Recession still hit us head on.
13
How is Wall Street's automatic 15-minute shutdown any different from nap time in a pre-school when children get too hyper for no particular reason?
9
@Peter
It’s to prevent automated trading from causing a massive meltdown. It’s a good thing.
1
Well, kind of. My portfolio has been both down $18K and up $33K just today. Anybody want to hold stocks overnight? If not, be sure to sell by 4 PM!
If you were really bold, you could set up a portfolio with an 8-9% dividend and see if you keep collecting - you just might. That not bad with the 10-year under 1%.
2
This novel virus is targeting very elderly people who for the most part were very sick already. In other words, economically non-productive people who constituted a net drain on society's resources. Ultimately such a culling of the most unproductive part of the population will be seen to have been very good for the economy.
@hula hoop - Cruel, but true. The reason workers have no money is that they are supporting a huge number of retirees, which is steadily getting bigger. I'm retired myself, but that's the truth. Why do you think the 50s felt so prosperous? Everybody was really young, and kept all the money they made.
1
President Trump needs a day to figure out how to fix the economy. He could , if he were a wise man,ask a couple questions, shut up , nod his head, and listen. That alone would provide more stimulus than another arm twisting interest rate reduction. And if a frog had wings..
11
@kirk
He will not listen. He was told a number of times that a vaccine was not possible for 12-18 months- right in front of the world - or the part of the world not on that medication Trumpazine that is such a wonderfully effective anaesthetic.
He kept insisting it would be 2 months. How is he going to act when he loses 2020 in a landslide?
8
This pandemic needs more coverage from NYTimes. I really don't care about the markets at all, especially if my family is at risk.
5
This is just a sawtooth on our way down.
Not before China starts opening up for business again will we hit the bottom.
Right now we have no timeline and no idea yet about the level of dysfunction this virus will cause before it’s over.
7
What's the point? Trump's just going to blame Jay Powell because not cutting interest rates has somehow caused this virus to grow.
3
Public. HEALTH
This ‘administration’ has done nothing continues to do nothing and will do nothing to address the underlying cause.
By treating only the symptoms it is guaranteed to spiral
When will the NYT start reporting this significant aspect of the story?
5
Look at those nice calm waters during Obama's second term. Could use a little no drama Obama right about now.
15
Hopefully they have the guts to tell him like it is...that his inability to do anything but take everything personally and electioneer at the expense of policymaking and leadership re: the coronavirus crisis is responsible for the rout of the market, certainly this is what analysts believe in the UK. I am sick of those who dodge the truth. But then this President says he has no symptoms after exposure to someone who did have symptoms, named Gohmert in Texas, who then went to meet people, though he should have been quarantined. Trump thinks lack of symptoms means he has not been exposed. He does not understand then why there is a 14 day period of quarantine suggested by experts. To say nothing of the irresponsible behavior by Gohmert. All of these leadership failures in the Federal and State governments has led to continued market falls.
5
can we all just ignore trump and pretend that he doesn't exist anymore? Can he just go play golf and party at mar a Lago...?
we do not need him, he is not helping and it is all so exhausting listening to his lies. Just stop reporting on him and he will not exist. Report on the smart educated people who are doing their utmost best to deal with all this.
Trump does not fall into that group.
12
The stock market giveth
And the stock market taketh away
Your retirement plans are shaky
When things go south with your 401k
Andrew Yang's $1000.00 a month sounds pretty good right about now.
5
Wall Street appears to live in a land of profound cognitive dissonance. On one hand, you have the analysts, fund managers, financial news anchors and pundits, etc. all spewing from the same "The economy is strong" playbook. And, on the other hand, you have the entire Wall Street investing community and the corporations in which they invest always anxious for the next monetary or fiscal handout to keep the party going (because, apparently this particular "strong economy" can't actually maintain its growth organically). At the first sign of a pullback in this stimulative largesse, the markets go into full-blown tantrum mode (witness the stock market rout in December 2018 after the Fed's multi-month attempt at normalizing rates and reducing its balance sheet - the Fed of course quickly and totally reversed course to soothe the recalcitrant market). And that's where we are: A market whose strength is illusory and fully-dependent on perpetual external stimulus. If stocks were to reflect reality, they'd have a long, long way to go on the downside. Coronavirus is just the black swan sledgehammer to the head that these markets so richly deserve.
11
@Paul 100% correct.
@Paul
Return to 2008 and we are here once again without President Obama and his critical thinking administration . We are told lies by this current administration and everything is a hoax. If Trump doesn’t care about himself how dare he infect other people. How dare his supporters infect the rest of us. Trump is afraid of germs another myth he is afraid of thinking because he has developed this constant mouth that just won’t stop
I hope those people who voted in Trump are very proud of themselves. We are being led to the edge by a pathetic want to be individual.
The VIX Index looks like trump’s signature. Volatile and all over the place.
Just like the 2017 tax change, cuts to SS are just more short term gains traded for long-term losses. In the end only the rich benefit.
8
Under modern Republican presidents, USA's deficits rise (see Reagan, Bush HW, Bush W), and yet even with that "welfare by deficit," Republican run economies fail to help the average worker. Stimulating the economy from the top down doesn't work, no matter how hard Republicans want it to work. The best way to stimulate the economy is to give poor and middle class families spending money beyond what they need to pay bills.
10
Recovery seems simple to me. Give the country an underlying feeling that competent folks are in charge and frequent updates about plan execution. Allow legitimate news media to ask questions followed by reasonably accurate answers. Admit it when miscalculations occur.
And no lying, period.
9
Are the tax cuts for business or for the people who need a pay check if they are sick? If they'people aren't working, they aren't buying OR paying taxes. Seems like a doomed policy from the start.
6
It's incredible. In China, air pollution has gone down dramatically. Global suspension of many flights very positive to provide some relief to the heating up of the atmosphere. Italy under lockdown may experience a loss of 4 or 5% of its GDP if things continue for another two, three months. Italy runs up the highest debt of the Eurozone, but is too big too fail. Only completely new concepts, not same old austerity, are likely to change the game.
1
Why is it that 45 and the R's are so against government intervention in the "free market" except when it impacts them?
11
To blame the Fed chairman, Obama, and I’m sure soon Trump will blame Pence for his lack of whatever he thinks Pence hasn’t properly done as we all know is a trait of Trumps that won’t ever disappear. However, Trump has put our entire Country in a critical position with this deadly virus. Our cities are under prepared, our grocery stores cannot stay in stock of hand sanitizers. All I want for my family of six is one large bottle of hand sanitizer. I’ve been looking for two weeks.
4
Trump and the bank executives will sit around and try to figure out how to prop up the oil industry, then toss the rest of us a couple rolls of paper towels. We can use them as face masks.
18
What investors should understand is that stock prices aren't exactly tied to the economy. Look at what's happening in Venezuela. The economy is a disaster, but prices are way up at the grocery store. The same thing can happen with stocks. We can see stock price inflation even in a bad economy. Warren Buffet said something very important in a recent interview. He said as interest rates approach zero, there's almost no limit to what someone might pay for a stock that produces something more than nothing. He's saying, in theory, there's no upper bound on stocks. We're running over a trillion dollar deficit. The government will print money if necessary to make good on our debts, so inflation will come. Now is not the time to sell stocks.
1
Is any Bank Executive listening to what Trump may have to say? I mean, - "the best ideas" or "the perfect plan" or any other superlative of your choice that comes out of this ignorant brain of his is not going to make the slightest difference.
Listen to the scientists, do as they recommend - and be honest about the effort that is required by all and about the scale of the problem. The virus does not read tweets and does not listen to Fox ´n Friends nor Hannity.
6
Sure. Incoming missiles in eight minutes. Republican plan - a tax cut. More malignant greed.
12
Hey moderates and republicans! Are you all of a sudden becoming socialists?
So why aren’t you voting for Sanders?
10
Socialism for the rich!
13
family business is in restaurants. We are seeing a dramatic drop in sales since the virus hit our city and state. Our insurance company has told us that even if the the New York governor or mayor put out a mandate essentially locking-down our city we will not be covered for our losses. Our state senator says he’s “working on it”. Our city councilman is asleep at the wheel and has no answers. NYC mayor’s office has sent our business a notice that they may lend us money to stay afloat but we don’t need a loan and cant take on anymore debt. And Trump has nothing of real value to add to it in the form of serious aid. Trump the genius liar is a totally inept. The worst crisis-president ever.
What we need is real direct government relief. The situation is developing into a calamity. Emergency Relief is what small businesses like ours need. Such relief is what we pay taxes for and should be what a government does for its people in times of a natural crisis. Its seems if we were a multi-billion dollar airline company our government would be throwing billions of dollars at us. Fact is no one in either party cares for small businesses anymore. Its just radio-silence and every man (business) for himself. Dog eat dog. America has seven hundred billion dollars plus for our annual military and nothing but crumbs for main street and the average american.
21
The real "live update" is the incredible story that De Blasio hasn't cancelled the St. Patrick's day parade - in spite of the fact that Dublin and Boston have cancelled theirs.
I certainly don't want to deprive anyone of the right to march in the parade - just pick a new date after the virus problem is over. That's not complicated - at least not for the kind of leader who actually gets to work in the morning.
Just as the Republican party has Trump, we Democrats have a total disgrace of our own.
4
@Peter Zenger
The Boston parade should be banned outright. Nothing but an inebriated pukefest.
2
The regular flu killed 70,000 Americans last year. Covid-19? A handful so far. People are getting irrational about this and our over-reaction will do more harm to our economy than the virus.
And putting every gyration of the stock market in a headline isn't helping stability either.
2
@Dan Then why is Trump proposing a stimulus that will help gut Social Security?
Ironic....how many older whites voted for this clown and continue to support him?
10
@Dan public HEALTH is the underlying cause
not the economy
Get real about it
1
1. Get your information from the United States Center for Disease Control.
2. Think in ratios.
3. Covid-19 is 5 to 20 times more deadly than typical flu.
4. Covid-19 has been spreading in many communities for weeks.
Science. Humility. Compassion. Courage.
I am just asking my self, scrap Trump presidency but if history is a lesson, then all future republican presidency's going to end with deep economic crisis.
That is very sad and depressing.
2
@SU
Bush II and this clown
No more voting for the selfish GOP
with the sugar economic highs come the depressing lows
Easy to forget
1
@SU
How did George W end with the country involved in an endless war
We went from a balanced budget to deficits because that is what the GOP do.
2
More stimulous, haven't we had enough? There is always a chance of overdoing it, and the obsession over an upcoming election will be an absolutely terrible excuse for doing so. The stock market simply must rise every day, eh?
If there are, somewhere in the US, citizens who need help, can not the Republican Party step up and help them out without pushing the rest of us off a cliff? The shortage of common sense in America today is astounding !!!
3
The irony of globalists seeing their world crumble due to globalism.
3
@Hellen
The madness of reliving nationalist history
That didn’t work too well in WW II
Now did it?
Anybody heard whether Pence is going to broadcast that everyone pray for the next 24 hours while nothing urgent is going on?
5
@Dan Holton NO need...only 12 new cases to report....
4
Ah, life in the United States... billionaire bankers get a bailout, workers are forced into bankruptcy due to healthcare costs. Yup, this is fine...
9
Best idea I've heard. Give every person who filed a tax return in 2018 an immediate cash payment of $2,000 per dependent. That will help them absorb the cost of school closings, cut-back of hours, uninsured medical bills, etc.
Then count that amount as income for 2020 tax purposes. High income persons who obstensibly don't need the money would then be paying back part of the grant.
4
Who's got the CDS (credit default swaps) on corporate debt?
2
@Samuel - No corporate debt has defaulted. In fact, corporations can now refinance at fantastically low interest rates, enabling them to borrow even more.
This is a sucker rally. Many people want out and are looking for any rally to sell into. It is highly likely that there will be many sucker rallies as the markets continue to stair step down. The fundamentals have not changed. The collapse of oil prices, the trillions in securitized junk debt, the commerce killing virus, business crushing Trump tariffs, and weak global growth.
These are the things that are pushing the markets down. None of them will go away any time soon. The fundamentals always catch up with reality, no matter who is in the White House.
15
@Bruce Rozenblit - You have to look at projected corporate earnings and cash flows, and compare them to stock prices, to see if this is a sucker rally or not.
Will the virus stop people from using electricity, driving,, smoking, making phone calls? Maybe a little, but in the long run a lot of companies are attractively priced.
Of course, the market could go lower, because economic reality has never been stock traders' strong point. Momentum can be the ruling force - for a while.
Hey, NYT, stop fueling the idea that "the stock market is the economy." It isn't. There are far more important issues in our lives than the Dow-Jones.
It's like working three jobs at ten bucks an hour to keep a family fed, then turning to the newspaper every morning to find out how the grocery chain's profits are doing.
15
Hey JimBob,
They don’t think us rubes who have to work for $10 per hour, read their precious newspaper.
They probably think we cannot read at all, what with having failed to succeed through Daddy’s connections and not having the foresight to obtain small loans of a million dollars from our rich white fathers, that we all have in this alleged supremacy.
2
Opportunists making a quick buck.
6
“Targeted relief” for “hotels”? As in Trump Organization properties? It’s time for a deal Don the Con: You and your grifter family will receive Congressional consideration of this “relief” after you turn over a complete set of personal income tax returns and business records, the release of which you’ve incessantly stonewalled since you took office.
8
Just saw the meeting between Trump and the heads of pharma, insurance, and healthcare industries on the Beeb.
Now he’s off to a closed door meeting with Republican senators.
McConnell confirmed that the meeting has only one agendum — keeping the donor class happy in the midst of this COVID-19 crisis.
Gotta hand it to Mitch. He doesn’t try to hide the one finger salute to the American Middle Class.
This undisguised contempt for the 99 percent is what makes him the Republican rock star.
21
The way the president and the news media is reporting you would think the stock market was sick with corona and no one is dying. Newsflash people are dying. As you were.
8
It's insane for the stock market to react (up or down) to anything this president has to say. The man is an incompetent fool who only cares about himself. That much is crystal clear.
Just IGNORE HIM, please.
When it comes to the coronavirus and your own health, pay attention to the experts at the CDC and the NIH.
9
I second that.
3
We're about 3 ticks away from where we were on Election Day 2018. Hmmm... maybe the wealth fetishists won't get the return on their devil's bargain investment they were assured of?
9
Trump is now claiming that the US government will help cruise lines and airlines through this crisis. Do such entities not have business interruption insurance? When will the corporate welfare end?
And, just in case you're going to hit the "like" button for my message above, I also am also going to make myself very unpopular by stating that I am also very, very against funds being used for 9/11 victims. Those people were the victims of a horrible, horrible crime - call it terrorism if you will, but from the perspective of the victim there is no difference. But, so are a lot of others in crimes more individual and less, umm, "photogenic." In short, I am strongly against any government policy that goes around throwing money at whatever happened to be in the news on any given day as opposed to via some fair, throught through process (that is - either all crime victims get money or none do, for example).
8
Ok folks, here comes another gigantic foot in the door heist of the Treasury by the banks like the last crisis that the gullible political leaders were duped into. It's the hurry up and hand over the dough or we all go bankrupt hysteria strategy. It worked before, the banks got rich, and all of us paid for it. Banks don't make money caring for customers. I think the meetings in the White House with the nbanks should be public, just to convince them not to rip off the Treasury in secret with Trump and Mnuchin.
Let's hope Trump and Mnuchin don't help Goldman sack America.
11
Trump showing us all his special abilities again. Wonderful!
4
The Dotard is going to meet with bankers? Wish I could be a fly on the wall. Wonder how many of them represent institutions that he's stiffed on loans.
6
A bailout for hotels? Gee, I wonder whose idea that was....
7
"Even a CEO's salary"
Mirabile dictu!
2
The whole administration should resign en mass. In the meantime while they are building up their nerve and self-esteem they should self-quarantine and self shut up until this crisis is over.
6
Help from the government. Trump is a socialist!
13
Trump and his cronies have been manipulating the market for years. Trump would make some announcement on China trade, the market would fall. A few days later, he would say a deal was imminent, the market would rise, his buddies would sell. Rinse and repeat. Money was made. What goes up, must come down. Some of these stocks are way over valued. His slow response to the virus, gave his buddies enough time to dump their shares, before the inevitable panic. The only people being hurt by this are retirees and mutual funds. And of course when people have no insurance and will have to go bankrupt to get care, his buddies can scoop up real estate for fire sale prices. Republican administrations do this time after time. Hopefully a few of his hard core supporters, finally understand this, but we'll see.
11
@thewriterstuff - The stock market reacts to all news. Are politicians 'manipulating the market'? The only way they could not have an effect is to say and do absolutely nothing, and even then the market might miss them after a while, and wonder what is going on.
Anyone have the Senate rule book?
Can a Senator that voted to not impeach move to reconsider?
5
Why is Trump only meeting with Republicans? A TRUE president would, at anytime - but without question in the face of a national crisis - be above partisanship...oh, wait...
14
That graph of market volatility looks very much like Trump's signature.
7
Trump knows that if he tells the truth he’d lose even his faithful base, so he’s resorting to how long can he lie for before he gets caught.
...but Wall Street is now on the cusp of not tolerating his lies because it’s affecting their wealth.
5
Are Wall St. and Bankers the panacea that fixes all our economic woes?... and then the people 'have need' to bail them out again.
When was the last time Wall St. and Bankers bailed out all the other sectors of the economy, when a recession and inflation and a 2007/08 crash/thievery caused massive high unemployment, a return to schools(private ones at that) to be educated to hopefully find a new job, mortgage defaults , housing, auto industry ect... Wall.St./Banking caused this regardless of Bloomberg assertions for the crash and blaming the government. Hope today's meeting goes well for you Bankers/Wall St.'rs, at least you get an audience.
If I play the local/nation wide lottery and lose, do I get a chance to be reimbursed by the Government?(without having to collect all my losing tickets and itemize my tax return). Hey, why not. We all should, once is never enough.
4
just as there are no atheists in foxholes there are no capitalists in a market crash.
9
You are living in the 21 st century, not in the beginning of the 20 th century.
Time to update yourself on both statements, they are both old myths.
2
@Mary Elizabeth Lease
Unless you are shorting the market. Isn’t that what they call it?
3
Am I too dumb to understand this? Someone please help me out.
It sounds as if this proposed tax cut applies only to people currently working (receiving a paycheck),am I correct? The idea being that it will give them more money to spend and therefore stimulate the economy. What about people whose income consists of SS benefits and (hopefully) some personal savings - do they get a tax break as well? If not, why? Their money is just as good when it comes to purchasing power, no?
And BTW, is an economic stimulus the only concern on this president's *mind in the middle of a national/global health emergency? Simply disgraceful.
8
The economic/health crisis will hopefully bring the criminal trump administration down or it should. If the Congress refused to convict Trump it should change course fast it should work this time
1
What happened to wall on our Mexico border?
We are not going to build that ? Why?
1
@SU
the wall won't stop the virus, even though Trump thinks it will.
Turns out Mexico lied. They will NOT pay for the wall.
@SU
I know! We got to stop that Corona from getting into our country!
1
Yes markets are hesitant. Or totally irrationnal as usual, in a state of emotional chock. Traders were already looking to mass sale and cash their profits, they found it with Corona virus. And they are looking to buy cheap from panic investors.
Am I happy to have sold out all my stocks last fall!! Its been three years I diverted my savings in buying... appartement buildings. Yes it involves management but people will always need a roof... Not to mention renting pries when trough... the roof.
1
I've been investing for over 20 years. I lost money during the dot-com bust. I lost money (a lot of money) during the Great Recession. And I just lost a lot of money during the last few weeks. The last time I bought stock was in January 2018. Even after this sell off, I'm still ahead on that purchase, because I collected over 2 years worth of dividends. I haven't sold anything during this panic and I don't plan to. I would buy more stock if I could, but all my money is already in there. I have only enough cash to last about 3 months. If you have money to invest, I would do it now. This is a chance to buy in at the level I got over 2 years ago. I don't think it's going to last long.
1
@Mark
Is this like the real estate guys who were trying to get people to buy so they can unload their inventory?
I would honestly wait to buy. Corona virus isn’t going anywhere. We have several months to the rest of the year to deal with this super powered flu.
1
This is starting to feel like a reprise of everything that was wrong with the official response to the 2008-9 financial crisis. Utmost care given to prop up the stock market and the banks and everything, and everyone, else is an afterthought.
People who work for a living have seen marginal to no wage gains for years while the costs of housing, health care, and college more than eat up whatever gains they do make. Yet that never inspired any sense of urgency among Republicans. But oil prices and the stock market dropping 20% is a five alarm fire.
7
Currently, The “Deficit Increase Act of 2020” is being debate. These days, Republicans never seem to miss a beat to increase the deficit.
4
The irony of the GOP policies (make no mistake, this is all McConnell) is that they will make the Bernie policies happen faster.
6
Reading the NYT comments one would conclude that if Obama were a president, for example, or Clinton, there would be no problem of any sort, there would be no virus, I guess, and even if there was the virus, we would have handled it breezily.
All is Trump's fault in their eyes, the virus and all around it - their hatred knows no boundaries or limits.
Back to normal folks - something needs to be done, has to be done, with the economy to alleviate issues that are here to stay for a while. Absolutely not sure Trump has any clue what he will be doing but hoping that people around him, and from both sides, will come up with something to combat this crisis. But for now, leave hatred aside and work against the common enemy, the virus and its consequences.
1
@ss
Trump was the one claiming that the virus coverage was a Democratic campaign against him . ( Lie)
-He has no idea as to how to cope with what is confronting him right now. Stop lying in public,no one believes you are an expert on viruses and start showing some compassion rather than talking about how the case " numbers " will reflect on him personally.
4
Actually what we figure is that we wouldn’t have cheesed off every ally we have, that there would have been mechanisms and supplies in place, that we wouldn’t have a Prez spend last long weekend golfing, that we wouldn’t have gotten lied to by a fool for the last month or so, that the primary concern wouldn’t have been power and politics, and that we would be dealing with the problem in an orderly, proficient fashion.
We figure that because it is true.
3
@ss. "hoping that people around him..." is not a plan. And I, for one, am tired of hearing that.
1
I hear a constant call from trump to find ways to support a crumbling stock market, finagle tax ideas that are very questionable, and invite bankers to a meeting to discuss "...their views of the recent trading activity and their own economic outlooks..." as the Coronavirus continues to sweep across the country.
Trump has also announced that he will meet with "...senate republicans...on his ideas for an economic stimulus package to respond to the coronavirus...". And what about meeting the Democrats? hmm.
But what I still do not hear is any acknowledgement from the White House about the seriousness of this epidemic or any statements of "real" reassurance to the American people.
In the midst of a Health Crisis the country deserves Health experts leading the campaign not politicians, or bankers, or a 'stable genius' acting on hunches.
13
Our disaster of a President, along with, strangely, this newspaper, seem a lot more obsessed with the stock market than with how we’re going to prevent more Americans from dying of this thing.
Sort of an encapsulation of all that’s wrong with our country right now.
6
The Republican response to every crisis is the same. Recession - tax cut. Global warming -tax cut. Corona virus - tax cut. Meteor heading towards earth - tax cut.
14
@Bernice K
You forgot: reasonable likelihood of blue wave purge - tax shelter offshore
3
Yet again, Republican deregulators supporting this time around,
an individual with at least 4 bankruptcies, a man unaccustomed to reality or the truth,
a businessman unwilling to reveal his tax forms.
America, when will you grow up and stop supporting a political
party that rejected the hopes of President Abraham Lincoln and President Grant, a party that runs up the Federal Government Deficit to heights unimaged,
only to cut the funds for American embassy security in Benghazi, and then crucify the Secretary of state, a person not remotely involved with the defunding of American Embassy security.
2
I wouldn't shake his hand, if I were them.
4
"Several U.S. airlines on Tuesday said they were further slashing service and costs — including a cut to at least one chief executive’s salary — in response to the dramatic decline in bookings caused by fear over the coronavirus."
OMG, this must really be a CRISIS! At least one CEO will take a small pay cut. There's America in a nutshell, the super rich, a government run by criminal sociopath, and a Republican party that enables him.
3
I understand that Trump disbanded the pandemic response team that Obama had assembled. How’s this revenge working out for the rest of us?
11
Why use dramatic descriptors in your articles concerning COVID and the stock market. It just perpetuates the challenges.
Okay, so the Obama recovery is now unofficially over with. Trump & Co have been skating along on work someone else did.
Now let's see how this group manages their own financial crisis. So, far? [A giant raspberry!]
3
“We’ll be talking to them about what they can do to help small businesses and companies that are impacted,” Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin said on Monday. Lol.
4
Since when do our Presidents only meet//brief Senators from their affiliated party?!
7
@tdillon
since we have a dictator.
4
I would pay cashy money to see just one of the CEOs who’s been dragged to Washington so that Trump can posture (when teleconferencing would work fine, and set an example) haul off and administer a serious dope slap.
After washing their hands, of course. And right before washing them again.
2
People who invest in the market and look at their returns in the context of a few months rather than years should not be investing in the stock market.
5
Oh well, I guess that Payroll Tax idea wasn't the secret to a 4000 point one-day recovery. What now, fumes Donald?
Here is an idea - how about transparency on the number of COVID tests actually available, and the number of people actually tested to date? How about some human compassion and empathy.
Donald: Nah, those 15 people will be down to 0 in a couple weeks....
8
"While U.S. markets were crashing, the Chinese stock market actually went up by 10% in February. How could that be? ...
In 2008, China beat the global financial crisis by pouring massive amounts of money into infrastructure, and that is apparently the policy it is pursuing now. " Ellen Brown, chairman of the Public Banking Institute: https://www.truthdig.com/articles/the-feds-baffling-response-to-the-coronavirus-explained
4
“We’ll be talking to them about what they can do to help small businesses and companies that are impacted,” Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin said on Monday.
If anyone believes a word of this self-serving grifter, I've got a trillion and a half dollar tax giveaway to the rich to sell you. That's sure to stimulate the bejeezus out of small businesses for decades to come, right?
8
Markets have illustrated they have zero confidence in a conman leading the nation through this.
8
Go out on the street and ask about the stock market. No one cares.
6
At risk of sounding like a broken record... THE EMPEROR HAS NO CLOTHES. There is nowhere to hide from this naked truth any longer. I hope someday many in the GOP find themselves with plenty of time to contemplate their dereliction of duty in their quiet jail cells.
5
How about a "poverty tax"? Or perhaps a "you're not white tax"? Or maybe a "you're not a republican tax"? All are just as viable, reasonable, well-thought out, and, most importantly, politically equivalent to whatever Trump Clowns & Assoc will offer up.
11
It would be far too foolish to expect Trump and the Republican party to do just anything to solve the issue. The best thing they would be doing is to ensure Trump's re-election and postpone all the symptoms of the issue to appear in public, even if that makes the situation worse, far worse.
5
All of Trump's tricks to manipulate the Stock Market have used up any reserve to handle a crisis he had no part in making. The money the GOP borrowed heavily to give their rich constituents a tax break is probably evaporating with current slide.
Stagnant old time Republican senators like Grassley and Cornyn who were all so thrilled to give un-needed tax gifts to the rich now slip back into conservative mode and see no need to help those who will soon be needing a break.
8
@Michael Kelly
We have a remedy
The Blue Tsunami Nov 3
1
A cut in "payroll taxes" isn't going to do a thing for us retired folks living on a fixed income, not paychecks, and in fact it will hurt us if they reduce the revenues coming in for Social Security and Medicare.
Meanwhile, my age group (though not me particularly) are among the most at risk from coronavirus. What does the "stable genius" suggest the government do about that? Oh, that's right -- nothing, which in any event was farmed out to Pence.
9
Two reasons of the 11 year long US stock rally while the rest of the world is stagnate are: (a) America literary prints money for the world. Think QE1 and 2. (US dollar as the world trade currency) (b) US corporations make products overseas and then sell them overseas the same price as they sell them in developed countries, hence healthy corporations especially in Tech. Think Apple, all clothing lines, and almost all consumer goods.
Now America can (a) Keep printing money and drop them off the helicopter. (b) Stop trade wars and halt inflicting pain on the US tech sector (Amazon and the like) (c) Elect a president that understands world economy.
7
Too bad the President and the GOP have used so many of the tools we have to prop up the stock market already, just to make sure the numbers look good.
What’s left in the tool box at this point beyond further debt for our children and grand children to bear?
6
@S
Chinese are not able to give us couple more Trillion dollars, where they put their money, I don't get it.
@SU The Chinese use their money for infrastructure projects around the world, which bring them a decent ROI. The USA use their money on weapons to destroy weaker nations so so as to get contracts to rebuild said nations and steal their resources. Russia and China are trying to put a stop to that.
1
How will a tax cut help poor and homeless people? More money for the rich. Time for free healthcare for all.
6
Trump’s “great” economy has been a house of cards long before the coronavirus. His bullying of the Fed for the last two years to cut the interest rate made no sense If the economy was so strong. It was simply a way to artificially inflate the economic outlook to give Trump talking points for his “Look How Great I Am” rallies.
Everyone but the Kool Aid drinkers recognize that Trump and his incompetent administration don’t have a clue how to solve these real crises.
22
One of the joys of reading the NYT and comments from its readers is learning something new almost everyday, to wit, the term "dead cat bounce".
Strikes me as somewhat similar to "Schrödinger's cat" that is simultaneously dead and alive which may describe markets at the moment.
Why a payroll tax reduction would do much good is beyond me but then I'm not a Trump advisor.
4
Trump's proposals make no sense. A drop in an enormous bucket. We need to direct our resources toward health care and those who are out of work, quarantined, sick or will become sick. Thankfully, the Democrats control the House and Nancy is in charge.
8
Two reasons of the 11 year long US stock rally while the rest of the world is stagnate are: (a) America literary prints money for the world, thus the biggest/only true currency manipulator in the world. Think QE1 and 2. (US dollar as the world trade currency) (b) US corporations make products overseas and then sell them overseas the same price as they sell them in developed countries, hence healthy corporations especially in Tech. Think Apple, all clothing lines, and almost all consumer goods.
To put it simply, China is one of the main reasons US stock market has been up for so long. Now America can (a) Keep printing money and drop them off the helicopter. (b) Stop the dumb trade war and halt inflicting pain on the tech sector (Amazon and the like) which is the only great thing US has left holding on the facade. (c) Find a president that reads books and understand the world economy, and what really are making America afloat.
Or, stock up food and toilet paper real fast, winter is coming.
2
How will we pay for the tax cut? The unprecedented growth you promised last time? How's that working out GOP?
8
the inherent evil of the GOP to use a pandemic as a targeted weapon to achieve their decades long effort to get rid of Social Security and Medicare is monstrous.
10
@Mary Elizabeth Lease
they will do , no doubt, blink of an eye.
The problem is people react out of paranoia and begin selling, then they keep selling and selling increasing the dumb spiral. I understand the decline in the tourism industry, but eventually it will bounce back. Give it time. The problem is all the short sellers!
1
Ah yes, the bankers are heading to Washington, HAT IN HAND, about to beg for a bailout.
It never fails.
8
What? We were promised “really great, really big” plans for boosting the economy and they’re likely nonexistent? Shocked!
5
Trump should cancel his wall for good and give the money to the people living paycheck to paycheck who aren't getting any paychecks due to illness, quarantine, and layoffs. But that would help too much and would be socialism, and what would there be to put his big face on every mile or so?
9
Trump will never stop the building of his wall. He will come up with some promotion to fill each section of the wall with engraved brass plates that have his donors named inscribed on them that donated $1k or more to funding the wall. And his base will gladly donate with smiles on their face.
Time for the big banks to pay back for the tax cut. The WH resident will bring out the Quid Pro Quo cabinet cheerleaders & assorted hangers-on, to push for pumping money into his drowning stock market. Then he'll announce it in the evening while reminding us Corona is not that big of a deal. Not nearly as big as him of course with his incomprehensible comprehension of medical research.
8
Two reasons of the 11 year long US stock rally while the rest of the world is stagnate are: (a) America literary prints money for the world. Think QE1 and 2. (US dollar as the world trade currency) (b) US corporations make products overseas and then sell them overseas the same price as they sell them in developed countries, hence healthy corporations especially in Tech. Think Apple, all clothing lines, and almost all consumer goods.
Now America can (a) Keep printing money and drop them off the helicopter. (b) Stop trade wars and halt inflicting pain on the US tech sector (Amazon and the like) (c) Elect a president that understands world economy.
I love that the administration seems more concerned with the economy than the public health crisis. Dont get me wrong, the economy is important, but.. priorities?
8
How about some bi-partisanship on the President's part? It would be nice to think that he's meeting with all political leaders during this crisis. Remember how George Bush had candidate Obama to the White House during the 2008 crash when they had a confab to discuss the crisis and responses to it? Gone are those times. But without some unity the way forward will be a lot more bumpy.
About economic stimuli -- payroll tax cuts only serve those who are not hourly wage workers and they will be the one most affected by this current downturn. What would be nice is a one to one government match to small companies/businesses who keep their hourly workers employed as the economy heads downward in the next few months. The big companies like Amazon can afford to keep workers on, but the mom & pop businesses can't. They are the ones who need to be helped.
7
@historyprof
Trump, having assumed the persona of Il Duce, can hardly now morph into FDR.
1
Oh, good. Meeting with the banks. Because siphoning more money from the bottom to the top is working so well already.
31
@Nathan
Exactly.
How can they loan to people hurting? I recommend their student tactic of making it unforgivable like student debt. A nice tax of several percent on Main Street for nothing of value in infrastructure. Just money wealth siphoned.
Imagine if the wealthy had to pay 20% on loans. Yet they whine about taxes.
If Trump has his way, we will never know the true extent of the outbreak. At least 2 experts said 50% or more of the world population will eventually become infected. That would mean tens of millions of deaths. I hope they’re wrong, but the global impact of such a pandemic is hard to conceive.
There are 700 known cases so far in the U.S. The actual number could be 10 or 100 times that. We may never know.
Even when the bodies start piling up, Trump will deny the numbers or tell hospitals to blame the flu. And his followers in Congress and the country will believe him (or say they do).
12
@Eric He lies about EVERYTHING, Do you really think this Administration will supply accurate numbers? Example - deaths in Puerto Rico, say no more.
1
@Eric Sounds like China!
How much time do you think Donald Trump and his Administration are spending right now on trying to figure out a way to turn this tragedy to their advantage, while making it "seem" as if they're actually doing something to help the American people, without actually doing anything to help the American people? The answer is obvious. It's all of it.
And the payroll tax reduction "solution" proves it.
What's next? Government paid for stays at Trump owned properties converted into quarantine spaces? How about a few billion in tax dollars to open up a Trump Hospital?
It's all so "perfect", you can almost get sick.
10
@Chicago Guy How to turn this tragedy to their advantage? Simple. Cancel the 2020 election. Claim a national emergency (which may not be too farfetched) and in the best interest of the American people blah blah blah.
2
According to a report I just read, twice as many Republicans think this Virus is overblown. I think they should have a meeting to discuss it in more detail after visiting their districts to meet with their constituencies. Voter input is important here.
13
"and even a CEO's salary" really says it all doesn't it.
7
do not steal from Social Security by reducing Payroll tax.
These airlines and travel industry should have Business Interruption insurance.
Ease rules for unemployment making it easier to file maybe increase the amount being paid. Allow people taking sick leave to use unemployment.
Do not bail out these corporations. Or at least very conservative in what is offered during this time.
Republicans scream about the free market place until they want a socialist bail out.
30
@lisa yes, bailouts for big business, never for the most vulnerable.
1
How about a another round of tax breaks for the rich? We've seen over and over again, over the last five decades or so, how that gives a such a big lasting boost to the economy!
12
The worst part of the stroy, "President Trump plans to brief Senate Republicans on Tuesday on his ideas for an economic stimulus package to respond to the coronavirus, including a payroll tax cut."
It's really scaring to hear that Trump has "ideas" and once he get an "idea" it will be steamrolled over anyone in the US, particularly for few rare Republican leaders who still there in the party and still dare to raise even slightest concern about
any of Trump's "ideas"!
10
@Bonku Who are you thinking of, they all folded during impeachment trials and the Mueller report. even Romney voted to not impeach on one the two charges, and that, I believe, was for political reasons.
As is often the case, profits will be privatized and losses socialized.
27
The last few miles of this ten year marathon 'economic recovery' have been supported by consumer confidence, propped up by a Santa Claus tax cut, and a supplicant FED.There are no new factories to speak of.In fact there have been factory closings. How the economy has continued to grow through the tariffs and trade wars is a mystery. Arthur Andersen accountants, Lehman Brothers financial advisers, and laid off Well's Fargo sales associates now in charge of the Trump economy? No one wants the economy to fail, except Putin, but it would be comforting to know what has kept it afloat these last three years.
5
I’ll repeat what I said earlier. I believe the federal government doesn’t have money when 20, 30 or more states declare State of Emergency to get federal funds.
The deficit is already astronomical. The rich will never return their tax giveaways. Then what?
13
A Cu in Payroll tax will be born entirely by the working poor while it relieves the employer their share of Social Security and Medicare payments. This is a terrible idea.
34
@Chocolate But it's the typical Republican and Trump idea. "Trickle down" has always ended up being more "trickle on" but the GOP can't risk alienating their money supply - the rich and the corporations.
5
How does that help someone who does have sick pay and if they dont show up for work they risk losing their job.
I would love to be a fly on the wall with those bankers attempting to have a serious discussion with a man who does not even bother to brief himself on the day to day stuff never mind important events.
Should be a real eye opener.
4
@Chocolate It's not a terrible idea if it's consistent with a long-term goal of crippling Social Security and Medicare.
3
I do not recall a President meeting as much, only with his party as he will be doing here, about our economy which, due to his prior actions at attempting to run our economy, is responsible for yesterday's lowest point ever, in our history.
It is my recollection that prior Presidents met with both sides in Congress, in order to pass successful legislation.
These days will be remembered forever, in our history.
37
@Quandry
Look on the bright side.....they won't be able to blame the Dems, HIllary's e-mails, Obama, the witch hunt or the hurricanes in Colorado..
We'll know EXACTLY where to go.
1
the Covid-19 pandemic is nature's way of getting our attention and mandating change we lack the political will to do for our own survival.
Viruses hijack nearly every function of a host organism's cells in order to replicate and spread, so it makes sense that they would drive the evolution of the cellular machinery to a greater extent than other evolutionary pressures such as predation or environmental conditions.
This shows what's wrong with our government. Why just talk to the GOP senators, all should be included in a national emergency
25
@Thomas Renner
this shows what is wrong with the GOP.
The Republican Party, as an institution, is a danger to the rule of law and the integrity of our democracy.
The problem isn't just Donald Trump it is Congressional Republicans choosing to collaborate with him.
The only hope of defending the country from Trump’s Republican collaborators is to vote against Republicans at every opportunity.
25
Unlike in 2008, if the big banks shake down Trump, or their insider, Mnuchin, insist that any bank bailout be first routed through bank customers who in turn can use the funds from a bailout to reduce their debt before it goes to the banks.
2008, the funds were given directly to the banks, from the treasury where it came from the taxpayers who were left holding the debt.
5
Instead of asking big banks about the stock market, why not ask them about easy and speedy debt relief for people must self-quarantine yet who have no savings, no affordable health insurance, and will be at high risk of homelessness?
25
Now things are getting real: the bankers are flocking to their proxy to make sure priorities are handled, like their rescue before anyone gets sidetracked with the pandemic. It's been only a week now and it seems that is the period required for our financial infrastructure to crumble without drastic bailout by the taxpayers.
14
The majority of the people on Wall Street voted for Trump. They loved his Tax Cut, it brought them millions.But they are not loyal to Trump when it comes to protecting their wealth. And they recognize incompetence when they see it. There is no amount of tweeting and "hunches" that will restore their faith in the Trump economy. They recognize a con job when they smell it and they are looking for safer harbors for their cash. Trumps tax cut gave the market a sugar high rush but it was never a long term solution.Trumps chickens have come home to roost.
8
@KJ Peters
I don't believe that's true. We had a terrific sustained expansion under President Obama that was great for stock holders and wall street. Hillary Clinton would have been far better for the economy and sustained long term growth. To believe that wall street doesn't understand that is naive at best.
The first thing I did when Trump was elected was reduce my stock portfolio.
Trumps tariffs, leaving both Paris and the Iran Nuclear deal have been very destabilizing for Wall Streat.
2
Well done, Mr. Kelly! One day you will be remembered for taking a pay cut so your employees could stay on. We all want to work for a leader like you. This is another reason I love to fly Southwest.
“Southwest Airlines said it was managing costs in a different way: by cutting the salary of its chief executive, Gary C. Kelly. In an update to employees on Monday, Mr. Kelly said that he was reducing his pay by 10 percent.”
15
Let's remember, Trump is "The Wall" Street.
Unlike in 2008, if the big banks shake down Trump, or their insider, Mnuchin, insist that any bank bailout be first routed through bank customers who in turn can use the funds from a bailout to reduce their debt before it goes to the banks.
2008, the funds were given directly to the banks, from the treasury where it came from the taxpayers who were left holding the debt.
2
Where are the wealthy in all of this? It's time for them to GIVE IT BACK.
21
@Emma Ess
No thanks. We made it, and we'll keep it.
How about this time we let the Bankers and the Market Manipulators languish, and help out the folks on Main Street? Ooops. My bad. That would be socialism.
107
for those of a certain age who recognize the name 'Tom Waits'
I'd recommend 'Step Right Up' as the day's theme music.
5
Nothing makes me feel better than knowing a group of honest, selfless people like bank presidents and CEOs are being called in for their advice. We know that, as always, they will put the best interests of the country ahead of what's best for their wallets.
52
A payroll tax cut throws money at a problem without a strategy and underscores a void of leadership the US. I suspect that after the initial euphoria of another tax cut, investors will react to the bigger issue which is...the administration is out of ideas. But we are not out of options. 1) mandate free healthcare for all with flu like systems and position going to the doctor as a patriotic duty, 2) expand availability of testing to get accurate data on scope of the problem 3) nightly news conferences that focus on facts 4) depoliticize rhetoric and use words of sympathy and empathy for those affected 5) halt or curtail market trading for the rest of the week. Taking extraordinary measures demonstrates that while there is a crisis someone is in charge to right the ship and stop the panic. Americans have time and again demonstrated they will come together in times of crisis, but leadership is required.
4
The payroll tax decrease proposal should be limited to those making less than $75,000 and should be offset by a payroll tax increase, namely getting rid of the salary cap. Seems fair and protects social security. Finally, since Munchin said this will all be over in a matter of months, the cut should be limited to six months, and subject to congressional approval of any extension.
4
The best stimulus to the economy Trump, governors and mayors of states and large cities like NYC could give is to send everyone home for a few weeks before infection is out of hand like in Italy. It is not clear why the US is not doing this as we know what is going to happen if people keep mingling with each other. Once we have a full blown outbreak, then the economy is really going to suffer. No stimulus package is going to work then when lock-downs will need to be longer if a lot of people are infected and the economy comes to a halt. So Trump, governors and mayors start acting now if you want to help the economy in the long term, and in the process save some lives as a collateral benefit of caring for the economy and sending people home before contagion is out of hand.
2
@Hoping For Better The flaw in your thinking is in your last paragraph. There is nothing about Trump that is remotely interested in the long term of anything, especially not "the economy" and how average people are faring through this, health-wise or money-wise. Trump cares only about Trump and is only thinking about the next 8 months.
1
@Brookhawk Trump cares about re-election = the economy. He also cares about his own interests which are based on service. If the economy goes south, so does his wealth. Our only hope is that governors, mayors, and even Trump, are proactive dealing with the COVID19 because of their political careers/ personal interests.
All of this really illustrates just how fragile our system is. Just a few weeks of reduced economic output sends the whole system into complete chaos.
16
You can make good economic arguments to bail out a lot of industries if they hit hard times- Manufacturing, mining for sure. Even airlines contribute to connecting the country together and facilitating tourism and economy in rural or hard to reach places, especially since we have not kept up the rail infrastructure.
But considering bailing out the cruise industry? Does that make sense? And they all scream that Bernie Sanders is the Socialist?
21
The market rally has stalled because even the dimmest minds of Wall St. realize that Trumps musings about a payroll tax cut are just new versions of his many claims that a trade deal with China was "just around the corner".
Even the President's ardent supporters know that he has nothing in policy or expertise but will deliver more bluster, contradiction and distraction.
12
@Mark In PS
The market bounce was moronic day traders trying to guess the bottom. The Pros are now raking in what's left of the takings. Just like 1007, there will be very volatile swings before reaching the bottom.
Trump sees this as financial crises for his finances and election crises for his re-election. Anything but a health crises.
10
Why are the banks meeting with Mr. Trump? They don’t need any bailouts. Why isn’t he meeting with small business councils, retailers, restaurant owners, hospitals, nurses union, etc?
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@JCAZ because all those organizations would need to go to banks to financing
@JCAZ My thought exactly.
1
@C
Debt slaves. Socialism for the rich bank taxation via interest for the rich as well.
Win win.
Please stop treating the stock market as the most important story.
The stock market is NOT an indication of the economic security of the majority of citizens. It is NOT an indication of the strength of our country.
The front page, now and always, should feature articles on how the working class and middle class, and yes also the destitute, are faring in our country.
During the run up to the election, voters should be getting in depth information about how their lives are being affected by governmental policies and corporate practices.
Then we could all make informed choices on Election Day.
Please put the stock market mythology on the business page where it belongs.
I don’t care if it goes up or down, because it doesn’t affect my day to day life in the least, and it never has.
29
@TJ Although I agree we need to focus more on the plight of the working class, I would argue that for millions of retired or near retirement people —including me—have watched their money vanish. I am not rich, so this this does worry me. My husband and I lost a lot of money in 2008, and it took years to get back to where we were in 2007.
9
@TJ
so you have no elderly parents or aunts or uncles or siblings or neighbors that you care for?
or perhaps you have independent wealth that allows you to float along above the fray of daily survival of billions of people.
@Kb Me too but if it takes a tanking stock market to get Trump out of office, I'll consider my money well spent.
The "dead cat bounce" of today's market is a classic demonstration of the predictability of irrationality in the market.
The smugness of the "Masters of the Universe" has evaporated into panic in two short weeks laying bare the emptiness of the "wisdom" of those with their hands on the wallets of the nation.
It remains to be seen how much abuse Americans will tolerate before a wholesale revolt erupts against those who have lied their way to wealth at the expense of the credulous voters who have supported the policies of inequality.
28
What happened to the market crash on Bidens recent wins? Didn’t we see a bunch of Sanders ones before?
The stock market will keep bouncing up and down until there is a clear sign that the US and China has a handle on this virus. Again the market volatility is not a result of a lack of cash. Trump's continued harping on the Fed to lower rates is still missing the big picture and just proves that Trump does not have a true business understanding. Manufacturing is nothing like real estate. In addition, propping up Wall Street doesn't do anything to deliver products. Wall Street can deliver the funds, but if the supply chain is down because factories overseas are closed, money means nothing. Our factories and product suppliers cannot ship what they don't have. Companies cannot forecast gains if there aren't any and if there's not real understanding when this crisis will end. The markets will eventually recover, but possibly not before the election no matter how much pressure Trump puts on the Fed or blames others for his inaction and lack of understanding. The whole world is not in on a hoax. It's real and it has to be dealt with with real action not false claims.
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@VMG Well said! Financially, Trump only knows one thing well, bankruptcy. After all, he's had a lot of practice.
If the economy is in great shape, the best shape, as Trump always says and will continue to say, why the stimulus?
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@Kvetch Because he's so smart. He's a genius, as he has told us numerous times.
38
@Kvetch
I wouldn't like to insist about Trump's words credibility.
Until now it was reality show and Particularly republicans was entertaining Trump WH apprentice , but it changed
It is reality , Trump doesn't believe what he says, Melania doesn't even listen him. Why You?
7
@Kvetch
It all for politics. Trump is desperately trying to redeem himself from this coronavirus series of massive blunders.
Meanwhile Trump will force the taxpayers to bail out the billionaires running the cruise line and airline industry.
Shades of the bank bailouts in 2008... wher NO bankers, mortgage brokers or ratings agencies personnel who blatantly and illegally falsified records and cause the collapse, went to jail.
9
A ‘cat bounce’. Nothing has changed on the COVID-19 front; companies have not suddenly become debt free; airlines are reducing flights, venues are closing and people are being urged to ‘work from home’.
Sounds like snake oil salesmanship.
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@George Costa
There is only one factor is extremely crucial: Time.
How many weeks more we are going to see Virus is spreading and case number increase continue ?
If this goes until mid April with out any sign of stop, Economy will stop.
Italy is closed to shop, entire nation , period.
@George Costa
It’s a cat with many lives. So after each death, a bounce!
Beware. Sit tight. Relax. Do not panic.
5
@George Costa
Yep. The "cat" is dead.
2
Trump's proposal to cut "payroll taxes" is nonsense. What that means is that the government would take less to apply to Social Security. Big Deal!
What we should do is lift the $10,000 cap on the deduction of state and local taxes. That would provide tax relief and ease an injustice. The injustice is that under the tax reform legislation which recently went into effect we cannot now deduct those state and local taxes which exceed $10,000. It is unfair because that is money which is CONFISCATED from us by state and local governments and we have no choice but to go along.
You want to cut some deductions? Cut the deduction for contributions. THAT we have some say over.
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@MIKEinNYC ....no thanks...with 90% of people filing taxes using the higher standard deduction it is a much fairer system...why should I pay for a break on your state and local taxes??...maybe move to New Hampshire with no sales tax and no income tax...or help change the tax structure of your state...deducting state and local taxes from federal tax never made any sense to begin with...
16
@MIKEinNYC
Better still, lifting the cap on income taxed for Social Security that would shore up the system. But as the wealthy don't need SS, they have no concern if it collapses.
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@MIKEinNYC
That's a big tax cut for the rich. Living in socialist NJ, it would benefit me personally, but it's still bad policy. If you want relief from state and local taxes, vote Republican.
DT is also wrong about payroll tax cuts. As BHO demonstrated, "temporary" cuts do nothing for the economy. And they would undermine SS.
Likely the best thing government can do right now is nothing. With freedom, economies always fix themselves.
That said, this would certainly be a wonderful opportunity to bring corporate rates down to their Canadian levels in the interests of competitiveness. And removing regulations and mandates which give Chinese companies such a great advantage over their American (and Mexican) counterparts. When American government policy makes it hugely profitable to build/manufacture overseas, that's precisely what will happen.
No, we shouldn't be increasing deductions. The merits of tax policy remain the same, always. That means low, flat rates with no deductions.
5
We've heard many times how Bernie Sanders is proposing things that we can't pay for. Yet somehow that payroll tax reduction that Trump is calling for will reduce the money that goes to supporting the Social Security and Medicare system. How is that not offering something that we don't have any idea how we will pay for it without reducing benefits which the Republicans promise not to do.
That they can get away with promising these mutually exclusive things just indicates how ignorant many Americans are about the tax system.
436
Pay for any stimulus package by turning back a portion of those tax cuts for the very wealthy. They can afford to help out and we don’t need a larger budget deficit.
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@Steve “ Larry Kudlow, the director of the National Economic Council, and Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin will brief Senate Republicans at their weekly lunch. Among the items to be discussed: a payroll tax cut, financial help for workers who don’t get paid sick leave, and targeted relief for industries battered by the virus, including cruise lines, airlines and hotels.”
Americans WILL need help in paying huge medical bills and to keep them from bankruptcy and resultant homelessness.
But wasn’t Trump and his campaign railing against the ‘socialist’ proposals of some Democratic candidates?
Bailing out specific industries sounds like interference in capital markets and ‘socialist’ policies, if not Chinese command economic actions.
Call the pot black.
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@Steve Trump has already said he wants to make cuts to Social Security and Medicare- this payroll tax reduction will pave the way.
28
Stock markets are rebounding because there is nothing to fear but fear itself. Several factors contributed to yesterday's crash. None of those hold any water today and those scaredy profit taking fat cats would not like to be left out after their panic selling are filing back stealthily to the flock they left a couple of weeks ago. Yes there is extreme volatility but those holding on to what they are left with have nothing to lose if they don't sell at a loss. Time is the best healer of pain and losses from the stock market.
I think that the the stable rise of the stock market will return after the panic pandemic disappears into thin air and China's worst export, the Corona virus is dispatched to history books. China should bear the brunt of the blame for this deadly blame and one of the consequence should be that it no longer is recognized as a permanent member of the UN, it should volunteer to step down if not the rest should strip China from the big 5 permanent member of the UN club.
1
@Girish Kotwal
"I think that the the stable rise of the stock market will return after the panic pandemic disappears into thin air "
Disagree, same arguments made last time, usually by Wall Street pros to the little guys to keep them in market propping up there own bailing out at better prices. Most people "rode it out" through a 10,000 point drop and then took ten years to get even.
Get out now and then get back in when the smoke clears in six months.
1
@Glenn from New Jersey. Feel free to take your own advice. I will stick to the proven strategy of not selling at a loss, as long as it takes.
1
How will a payroll tax deduction help a person who’s going to lose their job in the downturn?
455
Or if hours are cut back. Or if you are taking time off to care for a sick family member. Or self quarantined.
“The wages you didn’t earn are being taxed at a lower rate” is a nonsense response.
A payroll tax cut is the government pretending to do something about the economic effect of Coronavirus.
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@Mary It helps reduce the number of employees that will lose their job.
6
@Yeah It will help high wage workers though. I guess that means Congress.
20
The real panic selling hasn’t even begun. It’s just these fake-out bounces where Wall Street sings the song of recovery and scalps retail optimism to sell their holdings before the REAL drop.
Brace for it.
340
You should always live like there’s a Reese’s soon coming tomorrow.
2
This is a manipulative effort to weaken the economy especially for the older people who are supportive of the President.
Find out who is profiting off the market these past weeks and see who the political ties are behind this guise to use the virus outbreak as a means to a what’s.
If the market swings as rapidly as it has this morning, large blocks of holdings are fueling the turbulence, while retirement accounts suffer.
8
@MDCooks8 Nobody's manipulating the market to hurt Trump. How does slitting my wrist hurt him? The market is doing what markets do - it's reacting to COVID, the response to it (or lack thereof), and it's going through that correction it's been dying to do for at least a year. You are just drinking the kool-aid fed to you by Fox and Trump.
17
Careful. Dead cat bounces are the norm, not the exception. Expect several more deep falls over this week, and perhaps a sucker rally or two. Oil, too, will remain unstable. About all that's certain is interest rates & returns on bonds are going no where but down anytime soon. Trump will fulminate but that will have its usual mostly negative effects. If corona virus really gets going in the US, a bear market and full blown recession are pretty much guaranteed.
7
A flicker of an up-turn is good news. All is not lost.
Leave it to Republicans to think that a tax cut would help fight the coronavirus. These people are intellectually inapt.
12
@Mike All that matters, truth, decency, democracy, government accountability, care for the poor and sick, all was lost the day the creep was elected.
Just wait a few days when the market drops again because Wall St will be reminded that they cannot trust this administration because Trump will tell another lie that contradicts the facts.
...so he will try to do something again to artificially “stoke” the market, each time, creating the groundwork for a major recession.
Trump is a house of cards — his entire career proves that.
11
Wall Streeters, CEO’s and other leaders need to DUMP TRUMP and his TRUMP SLUMP.
It’s bad enough that things like the Coronavirus are unpredictable — you cannot pair that with leadership that is unpredictable.
1
Market is going to oscillate up and down before it hits it's new normal level...in the meantime: These words should be inscribed on Trump's tomb: "His preening narcissism, his compulsive lying, his vindictiveness, his terror of germs and his terrifying inability to grasp basic science — all of it eclipsed his primary responsibilities to us as Americans, which was to provide urgent care, namely in the form of leadership". That would be only fitting.
15
Well said..... Trump is a master at mis-direction and chaos. It’s all to appear as if he’s helping the working and middle class voters.
Isn’t it Ironic, that it was Trump that broadcast the term “fake news” so loudly in the mainstream dialogue?
The concept of a rational market, in which investors have access to all relevant data and use that information to price appropriately has been rendered ridiculous, if it was ever true (look up the Dutch tulip farce). So we coast along through all the idiotic and dangerous actions of the Trump Administration without a care in the markets since, after all, money is nearly free and we know Trump will stimulate in any way possible. But, egad, perhaps there is something within the government's portfolio of concerns, like an epidemic, that cannot be solved by tax cuts - so the market drops because it knows no one is serious about risk planning and mitigation (though corporations sure talk a good game).
But all it takes is the mention of another type of tax cut by the imbecile in chief for the markets to express relief. We have no plan for dealing with the volume of cases, we do not report the numbers of total tests and the results, we have nothing but a one-page handout for schools, businesses and individuals in terms of concrete information, but ah, perhaps there will be another tax cut....all is well on Wall Street.
7
This is a great example of a failure in leadership. Any President with vision and intelligence would have had a news conference a month again outlining his plans for both combating the virus and economic stimulus.
10
Capitalism as practiced in the US has always been red in tooth and claw.
5
for those wishing to pull back the curtain on what is being billed as a "price war" between Russian Oligarchs and Saudi Royals this article tells the tale.
"Tesla’s Success in Europe Catches Industry Off Guard"
'The Model 3 outsold some of the most popular luxury models in recent months. BMW, Mercedes and Audi risk missing the transition to electric cars.'
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/04/business/tesla-europe-success.html
1
I believe the correct term is "dead cat bounce"
5
Short lift. No snow.
1
Payroll taxes fund Social Security
11
@New World
Maybe Trump can work with Biden to promote austerity. Need someone who can cross the isle and get things done.
The GOP’s one size fits all solution to everything: when things go well, tax cut. When things do not, tax cut.
9
"Because it's the economy, stupid...." apparently applies to the coronavirus as well. Trump is only concerned with how any economic downturn - no matter the cause - will affect his re-election campaign. And the 1% Wall Street people have been disconnected from reality in America for years as they have plundered for vast profit.
Trump can bully his GOP Senate and the FED Chairman. He can't bully the coronavirus away. Trump has made the economy about HIM and it must shine like his golden coif or else.
Besides, the coronavirus is mostly affecting the "coastal elite" states right now and we all know that we're not "real" Americans so who really cares? Not the Trump GOP!
Interesting that Trump's 2 BFFs are staging an oil price war right now. Didn't Trump lie enough for Putin or MBS? Why are they giving him so much aggravation at this time? Looks like Putin is moving to be in power for most of the rest of his life so maybe he wants to get rid of Trump baggage? Same with MBS. Both will outlast Don the Con.
Money talks America! We're on our own. Wash your hands.
4
Oh no! A pandemic. Quick! Call the bankers.
What problem are you trying to solve?
10
@dyeus , when airlines, tourism, restaurants, retailers, factories and more are closed, there's going to be some economic effect--and it won't be small. And those are just a taste of the end of business-as-usual now on us, for how long, we do not know.
1
When a market is falling, it falls much faster and deeper than a market rising.
I'm sure the short sellers, banks, investment companies and brokerages are doing a "booming" business in this bust bear market!
2
I strongly suspect that these banking representative executives have nothing more credible and useful to say about coronavirus than the airlines executive representatives who preceded them to the Oval Office.
Kind of like the Trump Administration response. Nothing but political shade and smoke.
6
@Blackmamba , he will ask them what they want, and do it. His hope is that they will bail him out as he bails them out. And in himself, he has no idea what to do. If they want the US treasury opened to them so they can prove that the market can't fail--even if the rest of the nation does--he'll do that. Already he's wanting to cut the amount paid in to social security, calling it a payroll tax cut, so the program will be weakened just as people need it most. You may be sure the meeting won't get into what we need, however.
5
The economy doesn't like Republican presidents.
It's as though the economy knows it needs government guidance to prevent exploitation and ensure social justice.
The economy likes fairness and common decency.
Hmm ...
8
@Alex Cody The economy likes stability and predictability. We don't have a lot of either right now, and none in the WH.
The expected added federal deficit would be balanced with the revenues if a financial transaction tax (FTT) was in place raising hundreds of billions of dollars in revenue.
3
Looks like a dead cat bounce. Coronavirus was not the cause but only a trigger for this dive in the overvalued stocks. Looks like a classic case of bear market.We may see a lot more fall before we reach the bottom. Virus is a side story. America will not see any 3-4 % growth anymore for a long time with little manufacturing, no immigration, no population growth and older population. Will mirror Japan and the EU eventually. Good for mankind with less pollution and making world more livable and bad for power and profit hungry corporations ant political bigwigs. Nature is probably hitting back after tipping point is gone.But life will go on well enough with some meaningful adjustments. I am an optimist.
24
Republicans will do anything - anything! - to disable Social Security. This is just another excuse to create a financial disaster so they can dismantle one of the few social programs that work(ed) for everyone.
What should be done is to charge it on all income, not just the lowest part that is needed for ordinary people's expenses (rent, food, medical care, necessities, which makes it regressive.
It it was made a flat rather than a regressive fee, they might even be able to lower the rate for everyone while fully funding it.
By the way, the market leap has pulled back. It might be an idea to hold back and put a wider perspective on it.
12
@Susan Anderson , that's far from all this is, alas. But yes, republicans will use it to hurt the programs that we need; any public good is a target for destruction, more money they could have if we didn't.
9
Rather than taking money out of the social security fund by a payroll tax "break" how about installing a modest fee on stock trades, especially short term trading? Then use these monies to provide sick leave pay to those who can't afford not to work, in particular to those in the medical, child care, and teaching professions.
66
The company I started working for in 2008 discontinued pension plans the same year and instead provide an involuntary 401k contributions as well as a partial matching funds contribution. Even maxing out my contribution, I’m never going to be able to retire, if I keep losing more every day than I’m putting in in a week. 401k as a retirement account is a scam.
61
It’s not, in the long run, if you have a decent set of choices in your plan (including a variety of low-cost stock and bond index funds) and you remember to rebalance or set up automatic rebalancing. But most people don’t have those things.
1
@Eirroc
And that is what they can't do to Social Security
4
@La Resistance
so many ifs and buts...
the only certainty is that in the long run we are all dead.
1
@Mary
Right now we should be having tax increases, drawing on the massive tax cuts Trump gave to his wealthy friends. In the process, he left behind such a massive debt that there's little left to work with to address the problems we face right now.
Instead of investing in himself and the richest of the rich, Trump could use those savings to invest in the healthcare system writ large. The American people are at risk here, not just the stock market.
Sadly, he appears to be only interested in saving his reelection; he should be more focused on saving lives.
32
So let's recap: the drop in oil prices is a Bad Thing now because it affects the US fracking industry?
And that's because the fracking industry is economically viable only if oil prices hover around $85/barrel, or higher?
A drop in oil prices is a net positive for the economy. It lowers the cost of transportation.
What about this coronavirus thing? Are we still concerned about the human cost of this epidemic, or are people just collateral damage at this point.
We should be laser-focused on the stock market and oil prices instead. We must pump before we dump. On Monday, there was a lot of dumping without much pumping, and that was not part of our regularly scheduled programming.
6
The instability of the stock market reveals clearly the lack of real fundamental value and you can be sure that there are some people making money off every single drop and surge.
IT’S A CASINO FOLKS!
57
@frank Really? So the very nice gains my portfolio has earned over the past 11 years were due to an instable stock market? And I got lucky because I gambled with my money these past 11 years?
As always, keeping investment costs low, being diversified, rebalancing as needed, and staying the course is the way to go.
I guess the market can be called a "casino" for those who let their emotions dictate their investment decisions and sold everything during the Great Recession, got too greedy these past couple of years as certain stocks (Amazon, Microsoft, etc.) did so well, and are now selling out of their portfolio due to the panic of the past three or so weeks.
4
@Bill Loney It's been pumped up by 10 years cheap money, since the printing presses were turned on in 2009 and never turned off again. The stock market is massively, massively overvalued. The market is going down, at lest another 50% and will take more than 10 years to recover this time, without all the free money. You're going to cry in 6 months time that you didn't sell everything at these levels (which are still absurdly high). Good luck!
4
@Bill Loney
you want to believe due diligence is the reason for your successes, that may be the case but within the larger context of chance and random occurrence—otherwise known as "the odds."
Also to consider, in a casino there are ruthless efforts made to protect the house's reputation for maintaining the integrity of those odds—capitalism's stock markets not so much.
5
Why is the president and his administration only meeting with Republican lawmakers today? As I recall there was a closed door meeting with only Republicans yesterday, too.
This should be seen as a nonpartisan crisis, not a political one. Or do Republicans only care about themselves?
222
@avrds : I'm an independent. We've only seen obstructionism from the democrats for the last three years. Why should trump expect anything else now?
@avrds—incompletely agree. There should be a formal objection of some sort made
3
@James But you did not see any obstruction from the republicans during the Obama presidency, did you? Just because you say you're independent does not make it so- you're so obviously True Red.
16
It’s up. it’s down. Let it ride. Wait it out if you can. After 2001 and 2008, we all should know that by now.
But, it’s a terrible year to retire or get sick and the money cannot be left in another year.
5
@Susan C What do you mean by "the money cannot be left in another year?" Are you saying that people who are retiring should put everything in cash? Right now, after the market has had a significant drop during the past few weeks?
What if someone is retiring this year at, say, age 65, and might live another 25 years? If 100% of their portfolio is put into cash, the ravages of inflation -- even the low inflation we've had for years -- would most likely make that decision of getting out of the market entirely a very bad one.
3
@Bill Loney
Ok I get your point. But most retirees need to take some substantial money out of their retirement funds every month when they don’t work any longer.
@Susan C In my opinion, any money that is expected to be needed in the next three to five years should not be invested in the stock market. Having at least the next three years of expected withdrawals from retirement funds kept safely in cash, CDs, and/or the safest bond funds does not put any of that near-term money at risk of stock market declines.
1
A couple round of headlines in recent days have announced STOCKS REBOUND or MARKET BOUNCES BACK. So the Dow must be at 30,000, right? Trump is correct after all? No, I am only complaining about the hype when the price slides reverse. I guess headline writers are trying to compensate for the justifiably negative headlines on the plummets.
5
As I lie sick in bed my mind can only focus on payroll tax cuts and the possibility of another interest rate cut. Seriously? What problem is being solved? The stock market has become the Trump metric for success, so they’re working to the metric rather than an actual root cause. Can one say the words “healthcare” in the midst of a pandemic?
170
The Dems are right to reject a payroll tax. It won't help the unemployed or the underemployed gig workers.
150
@Pam Agreed. “Workers” aren’t the only segment of the population. As usual, tRump has a very narrow and simplistic view of economics.
27
And if the Dems were smart they’d shout it from the housetops.
We've seen this movie before--people rushing into stock market crashes to take advantage, but opening up the opportunity for "sucker rallies," that fizzle once the buying stops.
There is not one single person who knows where all these terrible cross currents are taking us, most especially this president. He's grasping at straws, and if history if prologue, seeking the easiest and flashiest short-term solution to the current problem.
A payroll tax cut? That only postpones the inevitable, and leads to less revenue, something this country can ill afford given the huge deficits his administration has already run up since the Tax Cut of 1017.
Quite frankly, he should roll that one back effective immediately. Then those who can afford to reduce our growing deficit will finally be paying their fair share.
161
@ChristineMcM
Agreed. We need more revenue to help the national public health departments, not less.
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@ChristineMcM The so-called leaders of our country, both Republican and Democrat, refuse to acknowledge the very painful financial things that need to be done for the long-term health of our country. It's all about getting re-elected and helping party members get re-elected or elected.
At some point in the future, the people in charge at that time are going to have to start passing laws (tax increases, etc.) that are painful but necessary. They'll probably get voted out of office because they'll be blamed for those laws being passed, despite the fact that those laws will be passed because of the poor leadership of prior administrations.
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@ChristineMcM
Any competent economist will tell you that there are two potential problems with deficits:
(1) that the interest rates will go so high that it will prevent private firms from borrowing, or
(2) that the economy will overheat so much that wages will rise enough to eliminate most corporate profits.
I realize that cable news has convinced many people that the deficit is a problem. However, (1) interest rates are not very high, and (2) the 99% are not making so much money that it's eliminating profits for the 1%, in fact, the 1% are doing very well.
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The crash of 1929 took four days for the market to fully collapse. Until it did there were rallies and lots of brave talk about certain recovery. And that was without a potential pandemic threatening to destroy weak economies and possible unacknowledged recessions in many countries. Then there's the oil wars between the Saudis and Russians tanking energy markets. I would never wish any of this on anyone BUT if the virus ends up destroying Putin and his puppet Trump I just might visit a church to praise God!
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@Charles and I'll chip in the $2 for the candles.
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Changing payroll taxes and cutting Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid.
Wall Street issues take action.
Guess we see who’s important...just ask Donald Trump.
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The markets rebounded in China first in Shanghai with the US following soon after. Good news came out of China with new cases dropping sharply and Xi visiting Wuhan. South Korea also announced fall in new cases.
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...and tomorrow, after further White House incompetence, the senseless short-term stock market will tumble, surely followed by a rebound...Someone is making a lot of dirty money here.
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@John Grillo
".Someone is making a lot of dirty money here."
Heavy risk takers betting the bounces will be making or losing a lot of money over the next few weeks (months?).. Not sure how that is any dirtier than other money made in the stock market.
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“Heavy risk takers”? No, this is an experienced and very wealthy, financial subclass equivalent to professional gamblers, who correspondingly treat Wall Street like an oversized casino with a short turn churning of “bets”. Over time, they always “win”, while the “small people” cyclically get walloped. What don’t you understand?
While the dead cat is bouncing today might be a good time to liquidate your remaining long positions.
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everything is going to be ok! great time to buy! :)
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@alex , very funny.
Dead cat bounce. Dow 10,000. It’s coming.
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If you look back at the 2008-2009 S&P 500, you might get a gist of where we're headed. In November 2008 the market bottomed, then it took 4 months of volatility before it started it's climb out of the abyss.
It seems to me that we're still at the beginning stage of high volatility, and it could be a few months or longer before the markets and economy figure out where it's headed.
Difficult times ahead.
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@cherrylog754 The market didn't bottom in November 2008. The final bottom was March 9, 2009. Oddly enough, yesterday's debacle was on the 11th anniversary of that bottom.
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@Bill Loney
I thought the same as you, but looked at a graph today and Nov, 2008 was a tad lower on the S&P 500 than March 9th.
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Most new oil production in North America is either shale fracking or tar sands.
Most of that is done by small and medium sized companies who are not equipped wth the deep pockets of cash needed to withstand low prices for any length of time. Production will stop, companies will close, when oil consumption returns we will become net importers again. This price war is a shell game.
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Don't you find it interesting that of all the remedies possible they have chosen payroll taxes? It appears the Social Security fund will take a hit and will play into the Republican strategy to cut back on its coverage. It seems like they are using Coronavirus to achieve their goal.
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@John You hit the nail on the head. Not to mention the cost of administration of a tax 'reprieve'.. the payroll genie or tooth fairy doesn't exist. Pay systems will have to scramble to accomplish this.
And people who are home with no pay won't get much help from a payroll tax cut.
But, anything to keep from actually helping the actual needy, right?
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@John
Why should trump tax the rich, the banks, the mega-corporations, the 1%, the brokerage companies......
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@John
Underemployment and 'the gig economy' over the last 10 years has been a perfect way to underfund Social Security. Death by a thousand cuts.
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This pandemic is nothing compared to what’s luring with global warming . Meanwhile the three evil amigos ( USA , Russia and Saudi Arabia) are doing their best to stop alternative technologies and progress in general . We somehow have to penetrate the small minds , with convincing arguments. Hopefully, cov 19 is a terrifying example of what our fragile ecosystem, our economy, the impact of our way of living, and our surviving skills really is all about . Everyone has an impact on everything we do, we think. Global elite economy has always tried to shut the masses and the none rich . We the people have the power to change everything for our best or is it too late ?
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Panics are the reciprocal of bubbles. In a bubble, no one wants to be the first to sell; in panic, no one want to be the first to buy. But when they deflate, things return to normal.
If this virus behaves like the flu, and takes the Spring and Summer off, there will a lot of money to be made in the next few months. And the best economic policy for government to follow is likely the same as that which is generally the best for government to follow: do nothing. Certainly, this is no time whatsoever for ratcheting up spending, especially on handouts, freebies, and giveaways, which never go away.
On the upside, this virus demonstrates that government policy can create the conditions for prosperity -- freedom -- but cannot guarantee it. (Whereas leftist policy can, and does, guarantee catastrophe) Hopefully, it will reinforce the difference between causation and coincidence. W didn't cause the 2008 meltdown; leftist "affordable housing" policies did. BHO had nothing to do with the improving economy; quite the contrary: he did everything he could to prevent it.
And nothing DT, or anyone, could have done, would have ameliorated the effects of a virus-born panic.
The economy will fix itself, like it always does, and the less government tries to "help", the faster the recovery will occur.
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Greed, predatory lending and credit default swaps caused the housing bubble crisis. W’s response and Obama’s policies made the crisis far less painful for many and did help lead to a recovery avoiding a Depression versus a recession.
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I wonder how one could conclude the economy fixes itself. Government subsidizes and intervenes heavily in agriculture, manufacturing, and the financial sector. We don’t have a free market and never have; we have a semi-autonomous market with highly preferential treatment for some.
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When this virus causes millions to be hospitalized at the same time will that tilt the major health insurers toward bankruptcy?
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@RLG
No, they'll find a way saying the care wasn't covered just like they always have.
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The great trickle down begins. No crisis to waste, billions for well placed corporations and literally ten bucks or so for the average payroll tax commoner.
How about an expansion for Medicaid across the board? Or drug testing any CEO receiving a bailout?
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The Emperor has no clothes. His "base" may or may not finally come to grips with the fact that he used them to get elected and cares none about them in reality. The markets are showing us that leadership counts, even if it means being honest, humble and empathetic, but mostly being engaged and taking ownership. Trump clearly has had no practice at any of this.
What is even more basic in the concerns is that we are all so smart, the internet gives us everything we need, technology has solved all of our problems and made our lives so simple, and yet here we are spreading germs around the globe that might kill us. And all the internet and our government can do is spread misinformation. It is almost shocking that this interruption of our lives can't be avoided...we are powerless and our mortality is now quite evident.
Us "Okay Boomers" are not the ones spreading the virus, we survived polio, smallpox, measles and the cold war, and we know humans aren't as smart as we think. Except for our Boomer President of course...he makes us all look bad.
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Rome was not built in one day. So was the stock market crashing to near the bear market level. It will take effort and time by the Trump administration to make it right. And his future of presidency depends on his performance.
Trump needs a victory tour before November after the Covid-19 crisis and stock market recovery if there is one. Xi Jinping just did that with a visit yesterday to the city of Wuhan, the epicenter of Covid-19. It instantly enhanced his credibility and trustworthiness. Trump badly needs one like that.
We will see how good Trump really is as the leader of this country. We will find out who is naked during low tide.
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When all this is through, we will see who really helped our economy to boom. If the economy crashes then it could point, but not prove, that trump was riding Obama’s market. If the market exploded again, it will suggest that trumps policies are working.
This will be an interesting few months until election
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@Nathan - Money is the only thing that makes the economy boom. If interest rates aren't low enough by now, they will never be.
Well money and confidence. You can have all the money in the world but if you have zero confidence to invest then the economy will never grow
Hopefully this is the beginning of a serious turn in the markets which will make millions of retirees feel somewhat better. And not a dead cat bounce.
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@Milton Lewis - Actually, a serious turn will occur at much lower prices, when there is financial pain... as well as blood running in the streets (as they say). I'm not willing to pay to make millions of retirees feel somewhat better (without actually being better)!
Good luck. A dead cat bounce will be followed by more financial pain. Nowhere to hide. Thank you Susan Collins and the rest of the Senate Republicans who are responsible for allowing the Dangerous One, blessed be He, to remain in office. Hey, could be worse. There could still be a nuclear exchange.
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Let’s not forget to thank the GOP tax scam of 2017. Agreed it will bounce up today but all signs point to panic!!!!!
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@Marc One of the few benefits of having a Russian mole in the White House is that Putin is already getting everything he wants without threatening us with nukes.
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@Marc
So which is it. Are we now blaming Trump for the virus, the overreaction in the equity markets, or both? I've no affection for the man but I have even less for our penchant to politicize the time of day.
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