NYC should close ALL schools. As for the issue with parents not being able to afford breakfast and lunch for their children, schools can keep the cafeteria open so they have access to food. For those that don't have access to wifi or a computer, schools can provide access to that in the cafeteria.
3
There are two approaches the NYC DOE can take--be proactive and close the schools before catastrophe hits (this is a very serious and deadly virus--it is NOT the flu) or they can be reactive and close schools after the damage has been caused. What is unsettling is that the DOE has not announced any plans as to what would happen if schools were to close...
3
"cleaning"in DOE schools consists of sweeping (maybe) and emptying garbage daily...not more than that. There was a faint smell of bleach in one hallway when i came in last week but no bleach smell since then. So they "deep cleaned" once perhaps? Who knows. By the way, nobody has provided hand sanitizer, wipes, spray, gloves, anything to us to help keep our rooms clean. I buy those things myself and the kids bring in the beginning of the year. One parent volunteered a big bottle of hand sanitizer last week but other than that nothing has been supplied by the DOE. No soap is the rule, not the exception, and there is usually no hot water in our bathrooms- today was the first day I've ever washed my hands with hot water in a DOE school! Very exciting.
My point is that the virus will spread like wildfire. Soon the schools will have to be closed because so many adults will catch the virus. I hope the DOE wises up and realizes that we will have to close to stop the spread of Covid 19. How else do you think China stopped it?
7
There's a report on line [ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK525302/#pt5.ch17.sec4.3] from The World Bank entitled Disease Control Priorities: Improving Health and Reducing Poverty. 3rd edition.
Chapter 17, " Pandemics: Risks, Impacts, and Mitigation" a sort of Pandemic 101, gives a far too accurate description of what is unfolding.
With ebola outbreaks in Africa we looked from a distance, and probably believed that those countries had inadequate infrastructure, and under funded, more primitive, hospital care. And so - we assumed - with a sophisticated, advanced medical system we were relatively safe.
We can see that the US was not prepared for this. We have, sadly, shooter drills in schools, but we didn't have a work force ready to respond to an infectious disease threat which can cause more devastation. We don't have enough supplies in storage;
Trump isn't responsible for the infection, but his comments are counter productive - and his elimination of the Global Health Security Team, led by Rear Adm. Timothy Ziemer to "cut costs " (via Bolton) may have been the most costly destructive action he has taken in office.
This must happen before this disease
overwhelms all resources .
4
Let me get this straight: the coronavirus is sweeping the globe; it has now settled on the New York region; 98 people in Westchester County alone have been sickened; Gov. Cuomo has declared a state of emergency; there are not enough virus test kits and all hand sanitizer is gone from stores; schools are closing right and left; and Trump takes to Twitter not to show solidarity with the state from which he hails but to insult Chris Cuomo, the governor’s brother, by comparing him to the weak, ineffectual Fredo in “The Godfather”. This is what the President of the United States is doing in the middle of a public health debacle. Think about that for a second. If your mind ever stops reeling, it’ll no doubt realize, with intense horror, that we’re all in very, very serious trouble with this psycho at the helm.
10
Closing the schools temporarily will be only slightly better than useless.
We have to accept that this virus will run through the population. Those who are vulnerable need to isolate themselves and not expect the rest of the world to stop so they are protected.
It will be far easier to isolate those at risk than to try and isolate everyone.
4
"He (DiBlasio) added that evidence indicated that coronavirus presented “minimal risk” to healthy children, and said “the schools are not the place we’d be looking first” to mitigate the virus."
Ok, that's great but the adults working in the school would certainly be exposed since parents send their mildly ill children to school all the time. Some teachers and staff have family members who are elderly and some even have risky health conditions - so essentially the staff will just be like those people on the cruise ships. And children will most probably spread their droplets, I get sneezed on and coughed upon daily in a K-2 environment.
10
There is another thing we could look into. Not just the “best person as President”, or the “best person as Vice President” – but a best team at the top that can complement each other. In a Trumpian world, a VP is a redundancy; in its reverse version, both the President and the VP are needed to compel our response in all seriousness to a government with a stable discourse.
From that point of view, if VP Biden wins the nomination, Mrs. Warren is going to be the best supporting candidate as VP as she can coalesce a progressive momentum on VP Biden’s plan of “continuity” as his paradigm of choice. On the other hand, if Senator Sanders win the nomination, he would need a balancing actor who could provide him the necessary traversal in the Senate, and that would be a more articulate Mayor Pete Buttigieg.
Most schools remain open. But Scarsdale closed all of its schools after a middle school teacher had a mild case of the virus. Whether closing all the schools makes sense is not for me to say, although it is hard to understand why elementary school kids and high school kids are endangered by a sick middle school teacher.
Decisions to close schools should be made for medical reasons. But the Scarsdale Board of Education is filled with MBA's and lawyers, who surely focus on liability questions.
If I were a parent, I would be less concerned about possible lawsuits and more concerned about the health and well-being of my kids. But, then again, Scarsdale is filthy rich, and everybody has high priced child care providers to look after their kids once their schools are closed..
3
@michjas
Could it be that the middle school students have siblings in elementary and high schools?
2
Taking all possible precautions is the safest strategy for sure. My point is that the wealthiest school district out there can take precautions others can’t. Being wealthy gets you more health safety. Or, simply stated, money is a good thing.
Stony Brook University's Nicole Sampson (Dean, College of Arts and Sciences) circulated an email to profs, staff, and lecturers stating that ALL classes will be moving online beginning March 23, 2020, following spring break. Classes will remain online for the remainder of spring semester.
2
As another NYC teacher, I echo many others who have commented here that our schools seem woefully unprepared to deal with an outbreak.
My middle school (and hundreds more) across the city have parent teacher conferences scheduled for later this week. So far, nobody in my school has gotten any information about how our school is going to handle hundreds of parents and students in crowded hallways, gymnasiums, the cafeteria, etc. People will be waiting, shoulder to shoulder, outside classrooms for at least 30 minutes. Often much longer.
Additionally, I would estimate that at least 20% of my students live in multigenerational homes or with a grandparent as their primary guardian. All live in crowded apartment buildings.
This seems like a great way to spread this thing around as quickly as possible.
18
This seems like a great month to move parent teacher meetings except where needed or to try by phone or online if possible!
3
What is the point of suspending classes at Columbia when students continue to gather at the cafeteria, library, gym, etc.?
11
@Thinker
Partly to protect the faculty and staff. I'm a college professor and have several colleagues over 70 and with other health conditions who might be at serious risk if they were forced into the classroom during this outbreak.
1
It seems negligent that the New Rochelle public schools are still open in the face of this contagiousness of this virus and the hot zone in town.
5
In times of duress we really notice our crumbling infrastructure.
Vote Blue No Matter Who--they ain't perfect but are demonstrably better at caring for people and (re)building infrastructure than the old GOP much less this barbaric megalomaniacal GOP/POTUS we have now, who, in case you forgot, dismantled the CDC in 2018.
15
A friend's father who lives in California but in a neighborhood that's clearly a 'red' state, believes that Covid virus doesn't exist and that it's a hoax. All because of irresponsible talk and incompetent president we have!
12
@Shari Gresh - Trump is stupid for saying that and, I’m sorry, your friend’s father is stupid for believing it.
3
We live in a global news frenzy. I mostly try to ignore the news, in order to preserve my sanity
5
I am so tired of the misinformation from the Trump administration and his continual references to the movie The Godfather. He has some grandiose delusion that he is Marlon Brando in a movie. This is not governing, this is a dangerous sideshow.
9
I was born in 1953. I remember my mother saying - when I was a child - that had I not gotten "German measles" (aka three-day measles or rubella) on my own, she would have tried to expose me to someone who had it because the primary danger of this disease was to pregnant women. Nowadays there's a vaccine against measles/mumps/rubella, but this was before we had the vaccine. The idea of exposing me to rubella was so that I would have it at a point in my life when its impact would be minor. Why can't young and otherwise healthy people just get exposed to this stupid virus and get it over with? Stay home? Bring the economy to a screeching halt with all the damage that does? I'm going to the theater tonight. On public transportation. I'm not going to lie down and die before I'm dead. (And, hopefully, those won't be my "Famous Last Words.")
2
The point is to slow the transmission and flatten the curve, to buy time for a seasonal change or vaccine to take root, which has the potential to save millions of lives of the elderly and vulnerable.
4
@Sarah Lane Yes, thank you for making that sensible point. I was rethinking what I said, but still: a college campus shuts down because one member of the community has symptoms as yet unconfirmed? OK. It's a gorgeous day. Good to have a spring version of a "snow day." But cancelling classes seems totally out of proportion, particularly when people are STILL going to congregate in the relatively close quarters of shared dorm rooms, dining halls, the library, (or the outdoor steps of the library).
And yet, New Rochelle public schools are still open! I fear that this will prove to be a grave mistake made by our new Superintendent.
4
That this president would lash out at anyone during this time is at best counter-productive.
That this president continues to sit in our Oval Office is a blistering festering pustule Mitch McConnell left us with to suffer through.
If there is anything that I hope will be learned from this ferocious tragedy is that keeping America great must translate to care and just treatment for all of our brothers and sisters around the planet.
6
@Guy Walker
And, like the mean child he is, to call someone he doesn't like by a belittling name and say it to his brother. So mature.
Stony Brook University is moving all classes online for the rest of the semester beginning after Spring Break (March 23).
1
Numbers in NYC and LI are much higher than reported...my husband, a doc at one system, is dealing w this. No one in city/state government is “lying” - they r just way behind in getting and releasing accurate information.
11
Thank you China. Not only do you give us the cheapest, lousiest products ever made, but now you gave us CORONAVIRUS. You gave us this virus China, no one else!
9
There are only two ways to stop the virus. Either create a countermeasure for it, or let it burn itself out. There's no countermeasure drug even on the horizon, so that option is unavailable. We must then let it burn itself out, with people shielding themselves from infection, and those infected prevented from contact with the unaffected. If you're healthy, distance yourself socially. It's a good time to get a little paranoid and get OCD about hand washing. If you're sick, stay home, avoid contact with others, and call your doctor if you're feeling dreadful.
2
America is a country of 2 working parents. When schools all shut down next week we loose half the American workforce to stay home with their kids.
6
Young students are not, thank goodness, in the demographic that is badly affected by this virus, but they are a demographic that is really good at spreading the virus. In most societies, closing schools is considered a vital tool in limiting or slowing the spread of an epidemic. Here, the argument is that the schools should stay open to provide vital services to underserved children. But what about teachers and parents? There is a moral duty, and a societal need, to protect them too.
Short term goods can produce longer-term harms. Here, the harms include a serious risk of dying for the older and the more vulnerable human beings around us. I hope the experts know what they are doing.
9
@Malcolm
Something like 75% of NYC school children quality for free lunches. That means they can eat at school and their parents don't need to pay for lunch. But their parents do work, so who is going to feed them and watch them when school is closed. Their grandmothers?
Well, aren't we trying to avoid them having contact with vulnerable people like the elderly?
I wonder what happens as this makes its way north of Westchester County. I teach at a high school in Dutchess County. I already told my honors classes I'd make and post video lessons and take questions by skype or email.
After the honors classes - good luck! Even if I made the videos my regular and lower level class students wouldn't watch them or claim they have no access (but have some really nice cell phones).
It'll be a complete disaster. NYSED is no help either - they love their tests, the heck with reality!
3
As a professional internet commentator, I and I alone understand that there is an obvious, simple solution to dealing with this complex problem. Everyone else is handling it the wrong way - my outrage meter has been turned up to 10. Please listen to me and hit the Recommend button so I can feel the satisfaction of knowing others understand that I and I alone is right.
10
Is there a reason why Mr. Cotton's HIPAA rights are being ignored?
1
I'm frustrated with the lack of preventative measures taken by Pace University when considering most major private universities in New York have already canceled face to face classes. We have all necessary resources to convert to an online class format and yet we haven't utilized any of them. I use public transit to commute into the city almost everyday, traveling through the area of New York that has been most affected by the spread of the virus. Although I don't feel I'm at risk for being hospitalized because of the virus, as a healthy young adult, I fear for my family and other people that are at an increased risk in my household, due to my daily commute to class. In theory, stay home if you're ill works, but when you're approaching midterms and upcoming deadlines without access to class lectures or materials, staying home just isn't an option.
5
Stay home and don't take public transport? How about the hospital staff, and doctors who take public transport to get to work?
They are all essential service providers and must be at work to help others and save lives, They cannot follow this simplistic advice. The leaders must be able to come up with better and more practical solutions.
4
And so it begins: no classes, no meetings, no travel, no congregating in public spaces, no offices. We sit at home, connected virtually and in fear of the other. I am a university professor. Executives and Administrators will seize on this opportunity to close schools. Can save a lot of money that way: no physical plant, no instructors, no cleaning crew, no lunch servers. And these shuttered schools will not reopen. This is because there will always be a case of coronavirus, or just plain flu, somewhere out there, nearby, so how can we risk it? And then, of course, no summer camps, no field trips, no excursions, other than through virtuality. What a childhood!!! I think we stand at a huge inflection point: on the cusp of isolation-fascism, hysteria about the other, and massive joblessness the likes of which we haven't seen since 1929. I think we need to be very very careful because once these measures become set, they quickly become the 'new normal', and that will radically alter what it means to be a society.
12
By next week, a plan should be in effect for NYS that strongly suggests closing school systems, having office workers telecommute and funds made available for any business impacted by a loss (gyms, restaurants, daycares, retail etc.) The DOE can keep certain schools open in districts as Centers to serve meals and provide child care for those families that need it. Pay those workers OT if they are willing to risk their lives to be there. Cut train service / stop all flights into the NYC area. Pretend like it's 9/11 and do it for a week / maybe 2 to STOP the opportunity for the virus to take hold of cities and spread. My life changed for a few months living through 9/11 in NYC but I didn't fall apart. My life changed during Superstorm Sandy...again I made due. Most people make due.
19
Better safe than sorry. I know it sounds easy to say, but it's the truth. Think about the optics of even one death of a student or educator that could have otherwise been prevented if there was a sharp, well planned response. Protect lives first.
9
Schools need to be closed now. Kids don't get symptoms, but they transmit the virus to everyone else. Keeping schools open is asking for disaster. There is no way to slow down the spread with schools still open.
Cases are growing at 20% per day with schools open. At that rate we will have a health disaster and thousands unable to get a hospital bed in just the next 2-3 weeks.
27
@Jake Agreed--and it's shameful that this article doesn't raise the issue of risk to teachers and other school staff. Young children may not be susceptible, but their educators, nurses, cafeteria staff, and security certainly are.
3
Cuomo and de Blasio were so busy trying to blame Trump and his administration for the outbreak of the Coronovirus in the U.S., they failed to realize that their incendiary words would start a real panic when no panic was warranted. Now the panic is spreading to schools which are closing down without any real health threat. This all goes back to the doorstep of the governor and mayor, and they will reap the just rewards of the fear that they have sewn.
7
Yeah! The coronavirus is a hoax! Donald Trump says so and he knows more than any scientist!
4
We lack good data to realistically assess risk. Nobody seems to know how many people who are infected actually become seriously ill, because we are only testing the sickest/highest risk people. We have influenza as well as illnesses without vaccines like cocksackie virus, strep, etc. every year, but don't typically close schools for outbreaks. I'm not sure how anyone can tell from the information available what response is warranted.
10
The public schools can't be closed because many children would go hungry. True. Would it be possible to keep the lunch rooms open & the meals served without classes being in session? Child care is another problem, but some smart organizer might come up with a plan for group care for kids who have no other option. Limited contact with a smaller number of adults however possible. This is a real emergency, friends. We need to work together.
24
@Patsy47 That's called welfare. If parents cannot afford to feed their own children, they should have thought twice before having them.
6
@paul So children should starve?? Thousands of kids depend on schools to provide breakfast and lunch.
1
DiBlasio and Cuomo are telling us we have to avoid public transport if possible and telecommute if possible. And yet the city is telling CUNY faculty, staff, and students to come to class. I know from experience it's not hard to temporarily shift to online learning.
The DOE is in a tougher situation, but DiBlasio says we're keeping schools open so kids needing breakfast and lunch and laundry and medical services can get them. There must be other ways the city can provide those facilities, for students who need them, without forcing everyone to go to school. We do manage to feed kids in summer, after all.
The evidence is that people can spread the virus for days before showing symptoms. "Stay home if you're sick" isn't going to cut it.
123
Fully agreed. Just visited several schools and I can tell you that there was no sanitizer anywhere. People act as if it is business as usual and teachers have to go along with it. We will have major outbreak of we don’t close schools and public transportation.
16
@CUNY faculty : Absolutely. If it would be harmful to some students to cancel, make school OPTIONAL. There should be zero penalties for failure to attend, but services available to the students who need them.
12
@CUNY faculty That's my concern as well... many people may in fact have the virus, but not yet know it or be showing symptoms. I feel like a city such as NYC, and with its vast public transit system, is a 'perfect storm'. Not only do we have tourists from all over the world on the subway (and who obviously came through international airport hubs), but we also have NYC residents from all over the world, and who may have recently returned from visiting with family in their respective home countries.
With a 14-day or so incubation period, it seems we may have more cases popping up over the next few days....
9
NYC has dealt with 9/11, major hurricanes, blackouts, and snowstorms. We can deal with this too, but our leadership needs to take clear decisive action NOW, in enough time for said clear decisive action to have a beneficial impact. Let's set the example for the rest of the country!
19
The problem with closing schools is this: There are many working parents, and many workplaces with draconian sick leave policies (or none).
If we want school closures to be effective, then the government will have to reimburse parents for the lost time from their jobs. (Or some other equivalent policy). Otherwise, you are simply transferring kids from schools to day care centers.
Of course, long term, we need adequate sick leave for all employees.
11
@TCP
or try to speed create some form of daycare?
Of course we are all relieved that the virus is not a threat to children.
Something that not many people are considering is the fact that kids can still carry and transmit the virus. Little thought has been given about what will happen when teachers and staff start to become ill with the virus. What about their families that are also being put at risk?
I know firsthand that there hasn’t been any disinfecting in my school. We struggle to maintain a steady supply of paper towel, toilet paper and soap in the bathrooms... no one is wiping down our classrooms or sanitizing anything.
We spend our days caring for and supporting students, we come to school sick so that they kids don’t miss critical learning time. We jump through hoops and bend over backwards for our kids, because they are just as much our children.
When we talk about schools remaining open, people aren’t considering who else they are putting at risk. What about teachers battling cancer and those with underlying illness? When will people consider that teachers are people too?
More needs to be done to adequately protect us. Whether it is masks, stricter rules about kids coming to school sick or even screenings in school.
Right now nothing is being done at all and that is unacceptable.
184
@NYC Teacher I couldn't agree more. I wonder where the Teacher's Union is with this.
62
@Sparky check your email if you are an employee, plenty of info being sent by the union and the DoE each of which is consistent with the other one.
1
@NYC Teacher As a husband to a teacher in Snohomish County, Washington I completely agree you. We seem to be waiting for the virus to enter the schools before announcing closures. This is a reactive strategy that will only further the spread of the virus throughout communities. Kids are the worst at mitigating the spread. To say they have a low rate for the worst symptoms of the disease completely misses the point of preventing the spread. The State and Feds are acting completely behind the curve. I fear we are far too late to contain CoVid 19 now.
34
Seems backwards to wait to close a school until a kid or teacher is infected.
13
No word from our "illustrious" Mayor DeBlasio. The trains were empty today. High school students and their parents are unsure what to do as they all take the subway yet there has been a state of emergency declared? Sure would be nice to have some type of guidance from the DOE or someone, anyone in a position of authority.
7
Close all schools
Flu is spread in schools and so is this virus
Close schools
13
This NYT article gives a convincing argument for school closure.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/06/opinion/coronavirus-schools-closed.html
10
Good . Now it’s the time to bring on line schools into action. The students won’t have sexual assaults to deal with or bullies. Tax payers will get a reduced rate since they won’t have to pay billions any more for brick buildings and over payed teachers
2
Several years ago, schools across the country were closed because of the norovirus (a/k/a "vomit virus"). SOP. Expect more of it because it works.
2
"While large lecture courses at Columbia can be streamed relatively easily, for example, an official at the school said it would not be so simple to translate other types of classes into an online format."
That's an understatement. Some classes do translate well into online learning. High school history for instance. Some math and science classes too. Generally speaking though, I've found online learning to be a tedious exercise in self-education.
A problem made worse if you don't have reliable access to online or in-person libraries. Successful remote learning requires a shocking amount of resources along with the digital literacy and self-discipline to use them. I'm guessing a fair amount of students and parents lack both.
By all means, do the best you can. Better than nothing. However, I suspect the entire plan is doomed to failure. Colleges are going to end up with either a backlog of remedial students needing basic education. Alternatively, you'll have a series of under-prepared students advancing to more advances classes.
Like I said, CrashCourse World History and some assigned reading and writing assignments will probably work just fine for an AP test. You begin discussing the neo-marxist impact on post-processual archaeological theory and you're going to run into problems. That much seems obvious.
We should perhaps consider rescheduling advanced courses in favor of crash courses in other less complicated subjects. That or summer school.
3
As a doc, first some facts about epidemics:
- Social distancing decreases human to human virus transmission.
- 2% or even 1%dead are a lot of dead, if it happens quickly to enough people. Life is fatal but not all at once.
- it's not just about the fatality rate but also how easily transmitted and how sick people get. Many severely ill at once cannot be managed.
- When medical services are overwhelmed, more die, including from other diseases.
- While infection can't always be stopped, buying time is critical. Vaccines don't happen overnight.
- Data helps. Funny how we worry about Chinese data but can't or won't collect our own.
For weeks I have been ranting that we need to take more aggressive action. Then last week I read a NYT article reporting that NYC schools basically can't close because of the social cost, down to literally leaving kids hungry. I finally got why China's measures are hard for Americans to fathom. It's because *we* can't survive them. We lack the safety net, infrastructure, community and access to health care to even make a real attempt at containment and mitigation. We really can't afford it. It's what many individual Americans already face all the time. "I don't know if treatment would save me, but the cost will ruin me". Many can't even afford a sick day. For America, the cure would ruin us, so we have no choice but to bear the full brunt of this epidemic and hope for the best. To take it on the chin and pray. God help us.
78
@Pigsy Fully agree! Yes, all life is fatal, because we all will die eventually. Even a 1% fatality rate is quite enormous for any infection. For the US alone, that would equal about 4 million Americans - more than died in any war the US ever found itself in.
1
NYC teachers should be walking out. Teachers are not babysitters or meal providers. An inspection of ALL schools should take place re: sanitation practices. Do all children, teachers, other staff wash their hands upon entering classroom? Do all staff and teachers have sanitizer, wipes, tissues?
22
Are there a dozen law firms in NY figuring out how to sue institutions for letting kids get sick by exposure to unknown patients? I'd shut the doors, too.
3
We are all caught between a rock and a hard place.
What's the next step after schools are closed?
Closed until the summer?
Closed until a vaccine is developed in 2021?
Closed until more testing can be done and it can be determined whether the mortality rate is actually 0.1%, 1% or 6%?
It feels very much like our elected official, which are elected to have plans exactly for these kinds of events, are making things up as they go along. There's no long-term view.
13
As an NYC public school teacher I can say with confidence that surfaces are not being sanitized or even being cleaned. Desks are not wiped. Knobs are not sprayed. The only place where bleach is used is the bathroom. This means that viruses can easily spread throughout our schools, infecting and killing the older adults who make up the bulk of the workforce. Many teachers and staff are in their 60s and will be ravaged by the coronavirus.
To keep schools open because they serve meals to low-income families does not justify the enormous risk to adults.
60
@CP How about each teacher pick up a $.6.99 bottle of Clorox wipes and wipe down their own doors and desks? This seems like a relatively simple short-term solution for your problem.
3
Yes, because our already under-paid teachers should be responsible not just for their own (at home/transport) sanitation supplies AS WELL as the supplies for their school. Teachers already spend their own money on classroom supplies— this is the responsible of our officials.
22
First NYC public school teachers are actually paid well.
And even if they weren’t it seems spiteful to say that just because they not paid well that they shouldn’t do something that would be useful.
2
I think it's interesting that New York University, though bigger, I think, than other universities in the city to have cancelled classes—and almost undoubtedly a university that has among its community members people who have been exposed to the virus—has not as of this writing announced plans to cancel in-person classes at its New York campus this week. It closed its Florence campus two weeks ago before the virus had barely reached Florence. A strange and I think potentially dangerous kind of inconsistency as well as exceptionalism. As though if it's not self-reported in a city that is just beginning to have widespread and fairly local access to testing, it's not among us.
That's not at this stage a safe bet, especially given the university's global profile, not to mention the number of local employees who use mass transit to commute to work from all over the Tri-state area. And then there's the fact of NYU academic and administrative offices located in the same building and using the same elevators as the university's student health center.
The university keeps saying that the safety and health of its students, faculty, and administrators are a primary concern of its leadership. Doesn't seem so. The strategy, and I've seen it at universities before and certainly at NYU, seems to be to wait until the public relations risk is too great not to act. If PR isn't at stake, be quiet and wait. As far as this virus goes, that strategy hasn't worked out so well elsewhere.
17
@SM Update: NYU's senior leadership announced that classes would go on as scheduled this Tuesday and would move to remote instruction for the rest of this week, beginning Wednesday the 11th and remain remote through the week after spring break (March 23-27). I don't understand why classes ought to be remotely taught, say, the day after tomorrow...but not tomorrow. Has the virus agreed to wait until Wednesday to try to spread?
https://www.nyu.edu/about/leadership-university-administration/office-of-the-president/communications/important-new-coronavirus-related-measures-and-restrictions-and-possible-future-steps.html
And how many people who work in NYC can afford to live there? Many surely travel from areas where there has already been infection...
6
At my university, we are now having training sessions on how to move the remainder of our semester online if necessary.
The plan is to mostly use existing online systems that we already use to support regular in-person classes, such as Blackboard that most faculty already used to post readings, lecture slides, and assignments, as well as to create online discussion groups.
So it would be possible to create online alternatives for both lectures and discussions. It would be very disruptive and not quite as as good as regular instruction, but it could be done.
Not quite as as good as
7
Glad to see leaders in the NY area are treating this situation with the seriousness it deserves. Here in Oregon our leadership has been extremely opaque and hasn’t shut down schools where students have already tested positive, yet they won’t say how the student was infected or if they’re hospitalized. Those are the conditions that lead to panic among the public.
8
@JD
Are you aware Gov. Brown has declared a state of emergency, which opens up more millions of $ for testing for and treating Covid-19, and supporting workers?
2
Not surprisingly, deBlasio is playing politics with the Coronavirus.
Because many poor children have no supervision outside of school, he will keep schools open no matter what and when those poor children infect each other and their neighbors, some of whom are elderly and infirm, and many of whom don't have adequate health insurance, deBlasio will talk about the tragic death toll and how it was completely unavoidable when it wasn't.
I have more confidence in deBlasio than Trump. But not that much more.
31
@BCBC I agree there are no good choices. And I don't want to minimize the upheaval of closing the public schools. Yes, that will create a horrific set of problems on its own.
We really don't know if most of us will get the coronavirus or half or less. And we also don't know what the fatality rate will be. But deBlasio needs to consider there are many elderly in the city. Both my next door neighbors have compromised immune systems, and they need people to be concerned about them, too.
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@Sparky true true. It seems there are hard choices all around us. My best to you and your neighbors, and I’ll keep those like them in mind as I follow the news.
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@Sparky I hear what you're saying, but there's always a cost. We need to make sure the cost is worth it. These are grim calculations, but why hide it?
It looks like we're nearly all going to get this thing eventually, and I've heard they want to slow the spread to "flatten the infection curve", a.k.a. spread out the cases so there are enough hospital resources to treat the extreme cases and get better outcomes.
But on the other hand: take education away from 1.1 million children for a month, and that's 3.3 million lost months of education. That's many educations lost, in a way! There is a cost to that. Or, look at a 8 year old whose single mom has to make a choice: leave the kid unsupervised (a low risk of a drastic cost), or not work for a month (a high risk of a moderate cost). Multiply that by ~300,000 (kids in poverty whose parents may make that kid of choice, who are in the younger half of the school system), and you'll see another cost to closing schools.
On the other, other hand: if the infection spreads faster hospitals may be overwhelmed, which has a cost in coronavirus deaths and decrease in quality and availability of other care. Another cost. Or, kids come to school and spread the virus to their elderly caretakers if they are living with grandma. Another cost.
It may still be right to close schools, but it's responsible to look at all the outcomes and choose thoughtfully.
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Trump must stop attacking governors who are trying to responsibly manage a difficult and potentially dangerous situation. Name-calling is childish and petty. Trump complains that Democrats are using the virus outbreak to harm his campaign, and in doing so, he is himself using this crisis as a political weapon. I wish Trump would just grow up already and take his job (rather than his re-election) more seriously. He is failing the country at a critical time when real leadership is sorely needed.
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@QED You may be right, but you have no evidence to support your position. The fatality rate will almost certainly come down as many mild cases are added to the data, but we really don't know how contagious the virus is. At a 1% fatality rate, it might easily kill a million people. Remember, no one is vaccinated against it, while many of us got a flu shot. This is not the sort of thing you want to be wrong about.
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@QED It is quite dangerous for certain populations, i.e. the elderly and those of us with chronic health conditions. Unlike the flu, there is currently no vaccine. Many of us regularly get the flu vaccine to prevent exposure because we know we're in a high risk population. What would you have us do? Don't our lives matter?
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@QED It takes an impressive level of cynicism to believe that the response to the virus is manufactured to "get Trump out of office." We can take protective actions to limit virus spread and potentially save lives. If, in the end, the virus does not spread widely and relatively few lives are lost, will people credit the precautions taken for having a beneficial effect, or will they claim that it was really no big deal to begin with? Time will tell.
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The Philips School of Nursing at Mount Sinai Beth Israel, located in Manhattan, closed as well which had students working in Mount Sinai Hospital the day the woman who is currently on isolation in her apartment after being sent to their ER tested positive. Students are still to attend any clinical work in hospitals but for the week all lectures and exams have been canceled.
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So now this virus is affecting our youths education, and to make it worse this virus is all over social media with fake google alerts and fake virus scares. By this occurring it’s making the problem worse then it is and I don’t see any of these social media owners doing anything about it.
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Read about the 1918 pandemic
Call me cynical and uncaring, but isn't this a convenient way for colleges to find a way to cut staff and faculty? There are probably emergency clauses in the full-time faculty contracts that will allow for termination. People are going to lose their jobs. Non-tenured faculty and the mostly adjunct professors will most likely not receive any pay. What about librarians, janitors, food service, sports coaches and maintenance, will they be let go temporarily or permanently? We have such a thin safety net in this country and educational institutions are always in need of finding ways to cut costs, so finding an online alternative to education will most likely lead to a deep lose of jobs with no safety net to fall into for many workers.
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@SB Italy is in lockdown and their colleges are teaching on-line. If they can do it why can’t New York?
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@SB More likely current folks will keep their jobs. People in education have talked for years about flipping the classroom, and this is great way to try the concept.
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@SB
The cynic in me sees federal bureaucrats warning those of Medicare age from taking unnecessary risks because they don't want to be saddled with the bills.
But that's just pure cynicism.
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Since the proof is now conclusive that corona virus is life threatening only to the elderly with ppre-existing conditions, and to a lesser extent others with serious pre-existing conditions, the idea of shutting down school systems, or other institutions is not logical while causing severe disruption and panic.
Are we going to shut down hospitals, police depts., fire depts, if someone in any of these organizations develops corona virus ?? Ramping up to wide scale testing in schools and other places when an individual is identified with corona virus is the logical response. Then only separating those who test positive.
Until an effective vaccine is developed we must admit there is no adequate response except logic and not panic.
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I’m worried because we tend to be more reactive instead of proactive. Should the virus show up in the NYC public schools, they’ll be no stopping it, and it will spread not at arithmetic rates but exponentially. Then the disease will show up in those high risk groups. And will be forced to react. I hope I’m wrong and the virus goes away. But it seems to be not the case.
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@AH2
There are many high-risk groups in addition to the elderly. Cancer patients of all ages undergoing radiation and chemotherapy, for example, are immune-suppressed. Many, many people have autoimmune disorders that require immunosuppressive drugs; they will be more susceptible to virus and complications. Consider that the rubella (German measles) virus causes severe birth defects, and that the effects of COVID-19 on pregnant women are unknown. If you have diabetes, you're more at risk. So the risks are broad.
Closures are intended to slow the inevitable gradual spread of disease so that cases occur over a much longer timeline. This is so that medical, pharmaceutical, and emergency services will not be overwhelmed. If that were to happen, many people will die of other conditions, beyond those with the actual coronavirus.
Once a case is found in a school, we can assume that that person has been spreading the disease asymptomatically for weeks--perhaps 500 or 1000 people will have been exposed or infected. Schools are vectors of disease for the rest of the community; although children have mild illness, they can't be expected to follow precautions as adults do, and they will spread disease widely. So closing schools IS the proactive and "logical response". It is the way of getting out ahead of the disease before contagion is widespread.
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@AH2 If you live in NYC then you know we live on top of each other. My family is all healthy, but one next door neighbor is an elderly man with a heart condition and the other is a cancer survivor with a seriously impaired immune system.
If we don't shut down the schools it is unlikely it will kill many school children, but what about their neighbors?
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It looks like universities across the US will consider cancelling classes but to prevent the spread of the Coronavirus the students need to go home. Having 50,000 students not attending class but continuing their social life and traveling domestically and international will continue to spread the coronavirus. When the university I work at closes for weather events students immediately go on vacation and travel far and wide.
I work at university where spring break just ended. Today and tomorrow 50,000 students return to town from domestic and international trips.
We have at least 40 students that returned from Italy and hundreds that have traveled to China, Japan, and South Korea in the previous month.
Just shifting classes online will do little prevent the spread of the virus. Even at universities that have shifted classes online the students are still in the dorms and athletic events continue.
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"Transferring to remote learning" is being reported as if it's something a professor can do with a couple of key strokes. The fact is, however, that courses not originally designed for online delivery--courses that depend for example, on oral practice in class or music performance and so on--cannot be taught online the same way they are taught in person and in some cases not at all without becoming a wholly different course--different content, different methods. Trying to go online halfway through the semester is just going to create chaos within chaos.
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NYC School teachers are nervously awaiting the arrival to our schools. We don't see the clean up that we were told was going to happen. There is no warm water in our sinks and no disinfectant in our rooms. It is coming. Our kids do need a place to be and the food that comes with the school day, but what happens when they become ill and then bring it back to their families in poorer communities? They will all get sick and spread it to one another. Something will have to be done. We want to know what.
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@Public School Teacher
Dear NYCBOE: It is not going to be feasible to have children washing for 20 seconds under cold running water, even if the soap dispenser is filled and the kids have to push the lever to get soap. Just saying. I don't think there is any hand sanitizer for purchase or mail order right now.
The kids need to stay in school. A 1-2 day disinfection of the physical plant is lovely until you let the kids back in and reinfect it.
The children are the most likely to come through unscathed.
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@Public School Teacher
For the most part, children get a mild version so that it's not much more than a mild flu or bad cold. It's the elderly and those with preexisting conditions who are hit hard because the pneumonia wipes them out. Pretty shocking that so much of the spread is from that one self-important attorney who went to work sick and spread it throughout his entire community.
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@English The concern is not for the kids, but for their families that live in small apartments in poor crowded neighborhoods with lack of healthcare. Great article in the Times about schools being the harbinger for the spread of viruses a few days ago.
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With the coronavirus gaining momentum every day, how does closing a school for a couple of days or a week accomplish anything? Barring a miracle, there will be more cases of the virus in week, so it makes no sense to bring the students back then.
If closing the schools today is a good idea, then keeping them closed until the virus stops spreading is the only logical move.
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@John H. The idea is to slow the virus so the public health system can manage it. Otherwise, China.
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You do not want hundreds of thousands of young people at loose ends. Closing schools temporarily in order to give them a good bleaching and then making sure students with sniffles stay home will be our best bet.
You might as well shut down New York City altogether. No supermarket shopping, no elevators, no subways. Want that yet?
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@Ellen Freilich
I am not proposing that schools be shut down, which obviously would present lots of problems for lots of people. I just don't understand what good a temporary closing does. Maybe this article should spell out what a school closing for the next week hopes to achieve.
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