Nothing is ever as bad as the media portrays it, and the real news remains well below the surface. This Caronavirus hysteria will soon pass, probably because the virus is mutating to a less lethal form. But if it scares the markets into waking up to our financial and political reality, it will have performed a service. Our financial structure is in a state of advanced corruption. Morality and money must keep each other company if either is to survive. This is the reason that Calvinistic Scots became the leading thinkers on economics. We are currently led by a bankrupt casino kingpin/con artist who fits the profile of a classic psychopath. So-called "conservatives" are acting like spectators at a bullfight, unaware that they are surrounded by a deadly virus and sitting in an arena that is about to collapse. Yes, when you hear the timbers groan, panic is the appropriate response.
I was wondering how long it would take Trump to blame Obama. Did not have to wait long.... Truth is that your President, who is supposed to work for you, was so busy watching Fox News, golfing, gutting all Government Departments and attending Gong Show Rallies that he did not have time to prepare for the inevitable. Remember when he said ‘coronavirus is going to be good for America’? He lied.
1
Don’t these corporations have insurance or rainy day funds? If not, why not ? It’s not the taxpayers responsibility to foot the bill for rare, but foreseeable events. As a taxpayer, I wish the White House and Congress would fully fund preventive measures and health care for every American. This is no time to shift the financial burden to middle and working class folks.
1
This reminds me of the War of Worlds- right? tiny virus kills the alien force- except the alien this time is trump administration.
2
A little reality check. Maybe everyone take a deep breath or two or three. We know there are trolls out there stirring up fear and suspicion. Good to have a public forum to vent fears and passions. Please try to be civil and respectful. Maybe share information instead of insults?
It's good that the Wall Street is not the Main Street.
I think these gyrations on the Wall Street reflect more on the Street than the real known impact of Wuhan virus.
The usual saying was ”buy on rumors, sell on news.”
Today, it is ”sell on rumors, buy on news if you still have cash left.”
This behavior of buying everything off the shelves - why is anyone surprised? Folks behave in most irrational ways when confronted with unknown.
That brings to mind Rumsfeld on unknowns:
”.. there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know.”
Finally, please - folks below - not everything is a fault of POTUS - not everything is a credit to him.
Folks need to quit being so laser focused on one man - which actually makes him think he is the Supreme.
11,000 people die each year in the USA from slip and fall. I'm surprised we haven't outlawed walking during the winter months.
The massive "grift" this country has been led down for 3 years is being exposed for what it is right now.
Tech bubble? This is a three year American bubble that's getting ready to blow full stop.
Fox News and a great crew of top notch cons have taken all the "gray" areas the trump administration has managed to hide behind with the largest, most effective propaganda stream the planet has ever known.
The potential for a pandemic always brings out the best in our Drs. and scientists from around the world but with the decision to "cast out" this group who might bring us a harsh case of reality with a hard right religious fanatic, what's left of a sane public is beginning to see through the smoke and what they see is scaring them to death.
I'm just waiting to see who will actually step up and lead? I don't think that's possible. What I see is more like a scene from the movie "The Grifters" where the character Cole simply folds after too many years on the grift.
Do a web search: has China buried the truth about the coronavirus
I read that China are sending workers with the virus back to work and that anything coming into the country will need to be quarantined for the amount of time that the packages or whatever don't have a live virus on them. This is like something out of a horror movie!
1
Regarding coronavirus response, enemy number one is, unsurprisingly, Trump.
Are you listening, Senate Republicans?
1
Almost 50 years ago, I was on a motor trip through the Sierra mountains of California. Every town border in California had a sign, with the name of the town and its population. I remembered specifically Kyburz California, because its population was 7. A month later, I was home in New Jersey, watching a news story about a forest fire in the Sierras. And on the news story, it was declared that "the entire town of Kyburz California was evacuated.". It was never mentioned that the population of Kyburz was 7.
It was then that I learned that the news media tends to sensationalize events in its reporting. We seldom get the information to judge the seriousness of a situation. Corona virus is not a hoax, but to judge its impact on public health, we should compare it to normal annual flu in the USA. Annually, over the last 10 years, The Center for Disease Control says this about our annual flu season:
"While the impact of flu varies, it places a substantial burden on the health of people in the United States each year. CDC estimates that influenza has resulted in between 9 million – 45 million illnesses, between 140,000 – 810,000 hospitalizations and between 12,000 – 61,000 deaths annually since 2010."
Thus, every year we go through an equivalent contagion without the economy grinding to a halt. But I see the media fanning waves of panic over Corona virus. I worry more about the anti-vaccination people spreading measles.
11,000 deaths per year by slip and fall in the USA. I'm surprised we haven't outlawed walking during the winter months.
It’s okay if Americans die from lack of access to healthcare without threat of losing our homes, though.
1
Hopefully, come November, Trump will have been "eradicated" by the coronavirus. If Wall Street investors have to take a hit for democracy, so be it. The Stock Market is, by definition, volatile and extremely high risk, and those who can't afford to ride out these emotional events should not be investing there.
4
I know stock market plummeting is not something to cheer for since it will affect us all but somehow our Earth is going to appreciate this recess. Air pollution in China has hit a new low not seen for two decades and now people are reluctant to hop on a plane. This is cynical but nature may really benefit from this epidemic, well at least there's something to celebrate.
5
The numbers are not equal to the fear stoking. Call it 100,000 cases in a population of 7.53 billion. Do the math on the percentage of the population that have the bug (and hardly all of those very sick) and it's in the thousandths of one percent. Considering how long this has been going on, to me "concern" numbers relative to the world population would be closer to 1 percent. "Greater concern" numbers, again in this time frame, would be around 2 to 3 percent. The Spanish Flu epidemic from Jan 1918 to December 1920 hit 27% of the world population, and this was at a time when travel capabilities were a tiny fraction of what they are now. Considering how many more people are free to move around the world in comparison to 100 years ago, within the scope of peril that has been placed on this 'outbreak' one would think there would be a great many more cases. Plus, it seems the tests are only being administered to those showing symptoms and to those in close proximity to those with symptoms. Considering there are those who test positive but show no symptoms, there must be many more who elsewhere are carrying without having a reason to test.
Unless we see several orders of magnitude of new cases within the next month.. the situation is gonna give lotsa political ammo to those who can justly place blame on the media for contributing to a brush fire that has definitely damaged a lot of nest eggs. Then they will vote with their wallets.
1
Up, down, up, down; that is where my stocks are. I am lucky. My stocks are boring but steady.
I am not expecting anything like the big dot com crash we had in the '90s.
Everyone take a deep breath and calm down. This is not the end of the world, in fact, this is best time to be alive in the history of the world. As far as the stock market goes, wait a couple of weeks until we get a handle on this thing and buy. Historically, panics like this have been a great time to buy.
1
The flu virus doesn't cause this sort of panic because there is a vaccine for the flu. This virus doesn't have a vaccine and there won't be one available, TO THE PUBLIC, for one or two years. Even if one is found they then have to experiment on humans to see if it consistently works and doesn't have any side effects. You can't just invent a vaccine and give it to Joe Public like you can a cake you've baked.
What else is causing people to panic is a shortage of essentials and must have in this age of consumerism.(do a web search; coronavirus causes supply chain shortages)
6
Western countries may need to adopt the same measures that the Chinese adopted. New virus diagnoses are falling in China these days, while in the West they’re increasing.
China’s approach to the virus seems to be working so the West should copy it.
5
If you are a humanitarian, and think people should be helped, vote for Bernie Sanders.
If you want to keep the status quo (or worse), and think the main role of government is socialism for the rich, vote Trump or Biden.
11
Tuesday showed us Biden is the one. Sanders is a lost cause due to fear of what he wants to do or undo. I'll take Sleepy Joe over the hate, division, bullying, lies, poor management, daily firings, immaturity and environmental destruction that Dr.Trump has given us.
Because DementiaJoe who ushered in The Age of American Oligarchs, extreme inaction on climate change and mass extinction is what we need more of? No way. No way in the world.
1
I tend to agree with Trump on this issue. This virus crisis is being over blown and exaggerated by the media and special interest groups. The mortality rate is being inflated to stroke fear in people but it is doing irreparable damage to the economy and the general population's mental and financial well being.
They should quarantine the elderly and the infirm and give the rest of us caronavirus. In the end we will all develop some immunity and the human race will be better equip to handle the next virus that nature throws our way.
Don't be afraid of an insy winsy virus! And don't be afraid of four more years of Trump. When we're not laughing with him we are laughing at him. Either way we are laughing. Sleepy Joe will just put us to sleep.
3
Well, I guess there are sicknesses even medicine can't touch!
12
@Paul King
Yes it is called hysteria. The a lot of people in the US have been suffering it for the last 4 years. Now with corona it will only get worse.
7
Hard not to be hysterical when you understand your own country doesn’t care if you live or die unless you’re worth millions or billions.
1
Strange as this sounds, what's happening in the markets reminds me of the dotCom bubble deflating. Companies would lower profit estimates, the market would reprice, but then the companies would still miss the revised estimates. In some cases executives were disingenuous and hid the truth about the business cratering, but others simply had the floor collapse under them despite what looked like good fundamentals. And they took down much of the market. In this case, nobody knows the true effects of the coronavirus or how long they will go on. So they're giving what sounds like good guesses at estimated revenue and cost. But the longer this goes on the further off they'll be.
2
Not sure we can blame Trump on this one. The stock market is based on buyers' reactions. When they panic, prices go down. This is the time to buy and then sell when they go back up, which they will - if the stock is a solid one. And, no, this is not another crash- just the usual fears.
3
Wow.
Such simple, sage advice.
Now why didn't the rest of us simply buy stocks when prices are low and merely sell them when prices are high?
It's so simple!
Especially because people know exactly when those events occur.
6
@Benni
If we follow this logic, how can we credit stocks going up to his Majesty King Trump ?... Stock market being based on buyers reactions... .
If the success of a presidency is based on a stock market increase, what about things such as improvement of the environment, enhanced medical care, advancement of schooling and support for the poor as yardsticks for a presidential success?...
@Paul King
Almost as simple as Mike Bloomberg's understanding of farming.
Get Trump out of the WH
15
Trump is one lie after another. The man has destroyed our country and needs to be replaced
Immediately.
20
Agreed. And not replaced with the man who helped elect Trump by destroying the lives of most Americans.
2
@Seymour Trump has also ruined our country, the UK! How? By hyping up anti-EU feeling and feelings of nationalism, which in turn led British voters to take the decision to leave the EU, a political community which had brought us stability and prosperity. And for what? For some trumped up promises––pun intended––of a trade deal with the US which, the way things are going, Trump won't even be around to make with us anyway! As you rightly say: Trump needs to be replaced immediately.
1
If this isn’t the best argument for Medicare for all, then nothing can break through the establishment propaganda to you people. Because guess what? Progressives, Independents and Millennials are already aware that your neoconliberal policies have destroyed our civilization and life on earth. We aren’t going to be blackmailed into voting for another Clinton/Biden this time to help you do more. You need us more than we want to help you do more damage. Healthcare. Climate change. Taxes. Basic cornerstones of civilization. Or you can pull up a chair and watch it all burn with us.
14
When all the airlines stop flying... I will cheer. What a nuisance they are.
1
@Wheel Watcher: I know, you just drank a tall, cool glass of Instant Epidemiologist. Just add water! Who needs a lifetime of study and experience? Who needs data... when you can just make it up as you go, the world’s your oyster!
Heck, it works for the current President of the United States... or it did work, until a tiny strand of RNA wearing a protein coat revealed that Emperor Trump isn’t wearing a lick of clothing.
2
I think what is most disturbing about this virus panic is the idea that we have just set the table for some weirdo or terrorist group or disgruntled employee to decide to take a lot of folks out since they are going down with the ship by simply contracting the virus and spread it around for as long as they can. Why check into a Las Vegas hotel and shoot 5 dozen people when you can infect thousands at the casino tables or wherever?
5
All of this seems very irrational. I think the modern press has made a huge deal out of something smaller. The flu has always killed a lot of people each year. This will hasten the deaths of some, but when put in light of the average death rate among the impaired, the increase due to this will likely be a little over 1 %.
Life is fatal. This virus is not a huge deal. Every time I’ve had the flu I’ve wondered if I’d live.
The stock market needed a correction. It used this opportunity well.
Yea, it’s a bummer to die early from this. Yea, especially if it can be prevented. But before we had a flu vaccine, this would have been pretty mundane. Yea, the epidemic of 2018 was bad, but they didn’t have computers then. Computers will show this just hastened the deaths of many due to die soon.
I think this hoopla is ridiculous. Live, that’s my advice. This an almost nothing.
1
@wheel watcher..please comment again here after all of your friends and family have been infected...your views might have changed slightly. An interesting read is Tiger Ye's story on his 3 weeks of suffering coronavirus My Life to Hell and back. He was only 21 and healthy but thankfully survived.
9
And Trump fell back on his usual, lie, deflect, blame others. But this time he won’t be able to sue someone, declare bankruptcy, or get Rudy or Michael to fix it by paying someone off. He owns this tragedy and all the deaths and economic disaster that will follow. You can only cut so much until you kill.
12
Maybe Trump will reduce the interest rates and take care of stock market and everything else. He is a wizard and has everything under control, no worries.
1
Biden too. He’s a real champ. Can’t tell his wife from the town he’s in, but he’ll save the billionaires from a bit of chump change, so that’s alright then, eh?
1
@Layla
Nope. Biden has a heart and soul, unlike trump.
Maybe this is the best way to bring down the carbon footprint by eliminating all "non-essential" business travel. Of course we can provide relief to the airlines - it will be $1. Then for every x million dollar in benefit, it'll be regulations that they will agree to accept to increase customer service (just like how they advertise a low fare and make you pay for everything - legroom, luggage, ...).
4
Don't expect any abatement soon, when you have an administration run by a crime family that makes its living by swindling people, a vice president who doesn't believe in scientific method, a republican gang of senators who are just trying to cash in and move to their vacation properties overseas when all of their abuses and lies are no longer deniable, and a Centers for Disease Control that was gutted to pay for trump's golf junkets and a useless wall of racism that is only benefiting the corrupt contractors who paid into trump's campaign. The USA is the epitome of a dog-eat-dog society now. I hope that 2nd Amendment can deal with the Coronavirus. The trump crime family and poodle Pence certainly can't.
14
When Congress rapidly approved legislation proposing to spend over $8 billion to deal with Covid-19, the new coronavirus, it made me cry.
I cry with joy that we are providing resources to our public health and medical professions to try to deal with it. I also cry as a gay man in my late 70's for all the people who died needlessly because an earlier administration refused for a long time to acknowledge that HIV was a problem that we needed to care about.
I also feel great pride that there was a firestorm of protest in the 1980's, led by ACT UP, Project Inform, and others that under the banner of "Silence = Death" forced American politicians to deal with HIV as a public health and medical issue; and has made it clear that we must never ever again ignore a communicable disease just because we don’t like some of the people who have it or that it presents an inconvenient truth to those in power who want to pretend that everything is fine.
12
I give my permission to remove me from the list of people to not feature in NYT comments.
I’m ready to face the backlash again. You can highlight my comments.
We’re living in a transitional time. We know Bernie’s ideas are inevitable, but we worry it could lead to a Castro regime.
Let me address that:
Castro was a violent general. Bernie is a peaceful Democrat.
All violent socialist regimes were fighting for workers rights. All of them. What do they have in common?
They took a valued and righteous goal and corrupted it.
6
I really don’t get ask these useless political comments, right and left both. This arrival is about the corona virus not about politics. If you can’t stay on topic there are plenty of political articles for you to comment in.
5
Trump's lies about the virus are grounds for impeachment. Democrat leaders, You should be screaming bloody murder to impeach the fool.
12
Been there, done that, you sat.
1
A 2000 point slump the day he, his family, or a cabinet member comes down.
A death, free fall.
4
So put on your collective big boy pants and vote for Bernie.
Or be scared by big bad T.
5
Is Japan communist? Is France? Is every single other developed and successful country communist? Why do you believe Americans can’t have what I experienced while I’ve lived in other countries? Are Americans incapable of civilization?
I had made a comment I feared waking up turning on the radio and hearing that 1929 classic Happy Days are here again, I listened through the whole song on youtube and the next song was Tom Lehrer singing We Will All Go Together when We Go. It is impossible for me to believe in miracles but some days.
4
It was very reasonable for China to react as it did when this was an unknown entity. Unfortunately that set a precedent for the whole world to follow which is unprecedented and UNWARRANTED. It's a flu. The death rate is 3%-4%, mostly old sick people and small kids. Just like all the other flus.
What has changed is the attitudes of the public which is what governments, businesses, transit systems, etc are trying to react to pre-emptively. Why? Cancel culture, that's why. Charging hoards of people in the internet ginned up by the constant drumbeat of media looking for clicks will be demanding that heads of state roll, airline presidents quit, school districts be sued . . .it just goes on and on. Unless you keep me from getting a flu.
Some of the hysteria may be sincere ignorance but unfortunately a lot of it is typical attempts at manipulating politics AT ANY COST and grabbing ANY issue. That behavior is unconscionable, if insincere, and unfortunate if the cause is real ignorance.
The world economy should not be melting down over a flu. This is absurd.
2
Or- your assumption that this is a “flu”, is wrong.
Notice the difference?
7
@ck Covid19 does not target small children, in that it is different from other flus and quite different from 1918. A 3-4% mortality rate is also not at all like seasonal flu, whose rate is.1%. The flu kills about 650,000 annually.
Experts are suggesting that 40 to 70% of the world's population could get the current coronavirus. Yes, the majority of them will survive and for many the disease will be mild. But if we use an average of your mortality figures of 3.5% and assume the lower end figure of 40% of the world's population gets sick, that's almost 100 million deaths. And that's just slightly lower than the total deaths from WW1 and WW2 (115 million combined.)
4
@Middle of the road Flu vaccines don't even work if you check into them. They are a fake to make people feel like they don't need to go to the hospital when they get the flu. Not to mention it wasn't long ago there was no flu vaccine and the death rates, adjusted for things like people living longer, more people and a lot of sick people in general, weren't much different. So if we are waiting to live for a flu vaccine that actually works it could be a very long time.
running for relection since he was elected.
filed for running Jan 21,2017,day after inaugeratiuon
2. Sugar highing the stock market ...until he can't
3. MAGA rallies since he was elected- nio just Nuiremberg style, but actual re eelction rallies
That;s all he;s been doing . If you haven't noticed this by now, you haven't been paying attention.
16
Social media will end up killing the virus, this age cannot let an obscure bat virus take center stage for too long. In a couple of weeks it will not be trending anymore. Spurned and dejected, the virus will die off.
3
He has met his Waterloo.
Is he going to tweet @ Wall St "commanding the indexes to go up"?
is he going to personally delivery the promised vaccine by "soon" and how "soon"??or just shut up?
is he going to maga rally cheer on all the newly unemployed?
Does he plan to catch those jumping from their offices?
Now if only a few of the maga hat wearing idol worshippers could get their heads on straight to actually see the damage the 100% lack of leadership is doing.,....,
nah ............ they're going down with the ship
13
@Middle of the road
Stop propagating the idea that Sanders is a communist. A DEMOCRATIC socialist is not a communist.
Wake up. Trump is the one doing Putin’s bidding.
four confirmed cases in NZ now! One person was at a rock concert. All confirmed cases in Auckland where one third of our population live.
Don't think I'll apply for a job as a clairvoyant! Be sacked on my first day! lol! I predicted NZ wouldn't get any cases.
11
I always like the phrase " Nothing you can do about it"
No not about Corona Virus, about Trump.
5
So, it’s obvious that there is massive under reporting of cases in the US. Everyone knows this right?
21
Remind me. Which famous person makes his money from the high end tourist industry? I can almost see his name on the side of towers......
11
Think it is interesting that England is talking about their national health system has been under austerity measures for years as they wrestle with being able to handle the virus. My guess is, like most government ran programs, they have grossly underestimated the cost it would truly take to keep the program where the citizens want and need it to be.
5
"As dire as the toll could be for global airlines, the industry in the United States is relatively well prepared for the outbreak."
In other words, they're too big to fail.
6
Too little too late, too little too late. Get ready all, now comes our fate.
7
Things could get worse. Just imagine a scenario where Donald Trump would have to face a crisis similar to that which Franklin Delano Roosevelt confronted following the attack on Pearl Harbor.
6
The way Wall Street reacted, you might be forgiven for thinking that the United State's response to the coronavirus threat was muddled, inept, late, and poorly managed.
You might even think that there were plenty of clueless people spreading "alternative facts" without basis in science, who knew nothing but talked and tweeted nonetheless.
You might think that. And you'd be right.
13
@Middle of the road thanks for the laugh, good timing!
3
Guess Trump & Company are worried now. Hmmm. Imagine that.
6
Fact: Pence maybe a sycophant but the COVID-19 is not.
Trump’s reality distortion field cannot stand this one.
Very beautiful to behold.
Looking forward to sick persons attending MAGA rallies because...hoax.
13
@Opinioned!
So are progressives going to start attending MAGA rallies?
Talk about reality distortion. Only the mentally ill would find joy in anyone contracting a potentially deadly illness because they disagree with their political opinions.
3
Well, I guess the Biden Bump has passed.
3
Plague- perfect excuse for the political neutering of the field this week.
1
NYT,
Why is it that the relevant articles your paper has published associated this governmentally mishandled coronavirus health hazard that inevitably will affect all of us in the US are not published by the paper allowing for comment?
The Trump administration and in particular Trump himself deserve the full broadside of castigation deserved.
And how about a comment from you as to the reasons you have not done so?
Open all the articles up to comment NYT. See to the public welfare thereby.
4
Don't say nose!!!
1
It's the coronaviruses world now, we're just living in it... for now
2
Weaker Abroad - Sicker at Home!
Donald Trump - 2020
12
There is one thing of which we can be certain. Our Trump government is filled with IDIOTS. What can possibly go wrong?
How long can we survive by having jerks like Trump in power?
Just like with any athletic team, a goverment's weak links will eventually be savagely exposed. That time has arrived with our country.
13
Perhaps this time when there's a bail out, it won't just be the airline industry.
Think of all the people who are already losing work.
Or, better yet, get a Democratic majority in the Senate so that such a concept might actually happen.
I suspect a President Sanders would have this even handedness. I wonder if Joe Biden would as well. We know who would never think of it, and his initials are DJT.
7
The economic turmoil is understandable considering nearly every item or its parts seems to be manufactured in China these days. But here's something else to think about. When this virus crisis eventually passes, China will be more aware than ever of how much leverage it alone has over the entire world economy. The question then will be, what will they do with their leverage?
10
Bully in chief got us the space force, the joke of the portions of the wall against MX, the great tax give away for the 1% and the dismantling of many standards that would have given our children and grandchildren a better world. And now this. While the markets' volatility won't harm those that are swimming in pesos, it has real implications for average people. Corporate America does NOT need nor have my support -talk to me about the working people.
19
He has cut funding for the CDC every year. Fired the pandemic team. Withdrew from global health initiatives. Said the coronavirus is a “hoax” and he has a “hunch “ that the World Health Org’s information is wrong.
11
@Middle of the road
No, but he created the chaotic response to it and that is what the market is reacting to. This isn't a medical crisis or a financial crisis but an existential crisis brought on by lack of Alexandrian leadership -- leadership from the front. -- thegamesmenplay.com
9
Great investor opportunity for followers of the “Shock Doctrine” (read Naomi Klein). Even more, those investors now have the added benefit of the lower interest rates just provided by the Fed.
Neat.
How can this economic system NOT be seen as designed to mainly benefit the wealthy and other shareholders?
21
The Corona 19 virus should be a teaching moment in economic resilience. We need to take the opportunity to re-examine the nature and depth of economic ties between nations and businesses. That doesn't mean withdrawing from economic agreements, business supply chains but rather honestly assessing where these relationships are vulnerable and taking responsible measures to address them.
11
This is just so fascinating. Here we have a virus that is, more or less, as dangerous as the flu. (How much depends on just a couple of percentage points either way depending on localized conditions and methods of data analysis.) Yet it is causing global social and economic havoc. It demonstrates just how fragile is the social fabric into which we are all woven. What jump in percentage of lethality would really tear the fabric asunder? 5%? 10%? 25%?
6
@Middle of the road No, I'm just making observations.
3
@Kevin It is not 'more or less as dangerous the flu'. Nor is the difference ' a couple of percentage points'. It is way beyond 25%. You need to put in some study time if you want to be taken seriously.
1
You know what rattles markets? Uncertainty, that's what. When you have straight up lies, misinformation, misdirection and a general clown car lack of organization from the top this is what happens. Markets crash. Epidemics rage. Still loving Trump? You're getting what you paid for now.
46
Agree! I have more than a hunch that the man is mentally handicapped. What a time for us to be stuck with an imbecile at the helm of the nation. Ten more months and this nightmare will end.
9
Trump has, until this, been singularly fortunate to have not faced a crisis that wasn't of his own making. Now his profound lack of leadership is on display for all to see. Welcome to the NFL Mr. President.
30
Can't traders take a break to see how the facts play out for a week or two? No, all they know how to do is trade, on any ups or downs or whims. They have to trade, or they'll die evidently, like a shark that stops swimming will drown. Supposedly 'Masters of the Universe', instead they're acting like scared rabbits or sheep. Calm down, hold on, and suss out the good information from the bad. Spend some time with your family, traders, or your dog. You're just making things worse by panic trading and speculating about something you have no control over.
9
@JP The false premise you are relying on is that there are actual "traders" (i.e. human beings) doing this. Computers drive the market. They don't have a family or a dog. They act based on algorithms that are already baked in. They are relentless, unfeeling, and unemotional.
9
@Douglas Evans, Point taken, you're right.
Dow 10,000. It’s coming.
8
@Winston Smith 2020 unlikely (unless something really horrible happens with this virus , like causing more deaths than the regular flu--18,000 or so this flu season in the US so far...then I guess we'll just get used to that as well)...likely will settle to 18,000-24,000..S
1
What amazes me is that there is an expectation from everyone that economies will grow and grow and grow. There has to be some top limit. What is, in reality, happening that the economies are not really growing. The prices of assets etc. are just being inflated and inflated till they burst and then come down.
This corona virus is bringing things down to earth. It hasn't done it's job completely as yet. The asset prices really need to come down 40 to 50 percent or even more to make them affordable to everyone. I am shocked to see Apple and Samsung phones costing upwards of $1500. That is simply incredible. There is too much profiteering.
China has created so many corrupt millionairs that they decimating the local economies...so in my view the virus is doing the correction.
The market corrections are a good thing, it is a good disruption. I haven't seen much effect in some sectors of the economy here and for that I want to see more of this Virus. I want to see more restrictions in re China. Let's see for how long these Chinese keep up buying the iron ore from here. Imagine, they are still buying it by the shipload. Unreal. They have to have some ulterior plan to be hoarding so much excess steel.
11
@ANM Nice point. Prior to WWII, Japan bought US steel by the boatload. It then was used to build the fighter planes, battleships, and munitions generally, they needed in order to pull off a surprise attack on us at Pearl Harbor.
1
If this isn’t the best argument for Medicare for all, nothing can break through to you people. Because guess what? Progressives, Independents and Millennials are already aware that your neoconliberal policies have destroyed our civilization and life on earth. We aren’t going to be blackmailed into voting for another Clinton/Biden this time. You need us more than we will help you do more damage. Healthcare. Climate change. Taxes. Basic cornerstones of civilization. Or you can pull up a chair and watch it all burn.
19
@Leah Well said! I could not agree more. My guess though is that we're going to watch it all burn. These people cannot change. Our species will get what we have bought and paid for. The truly horrifying part is taking all the beautiful plants and innocent animals with us. This is a rock hurtling through space at suicidal speed. It is a green oasis in a never ending pit of black vacuum. Somehow a new SUV is more important than this? I will never understand people.
12
Yes!!!
3
Medicare for All is not burning down the house. It is—as you suggest—building and expanding one of our best programs. Too many Americans suffer with expensive for profit health care.
4
I think it's time to stop reporting 'updates' from the White House and stick to the facts from the scientists. Alternatively directly challenge the 'updates' with facts in bold on front pages everywhere. And for goodness sake give DT some bronzer and send him to a mirror to distract him, his glow is as fake as his words. Now is not the time to play ratings.
Here in the rest of the world we can get accurate info (as accurate as a dynamic situation allows). Try some international websites/news outlets, lots of good advice where no-one has to pass through Pence first. They are covering all countries involved, including the USA.
28
The coronavirus is proving we must have Medicare for all. Sanders 2020!
15
These are not hunches but MORE lies.
9
Time to buy stocks
1
@Nycdweller
This drop might have another 10-15000 points left to go on the Dow...
... unless the pandemic gets REALLY bad
9
Good.
3
@Steve - Ummm huh? Who what where why what?
I see where the Trump administration is working to keep the cases of coronavirus low. They seem to be doin very well. If you don't test, you don't get any reported cases. A travesty of the highest magnitude, is staring us in the face.
24
Thanks China for your virus. Another lousy product
6
Airline CEOs meeting with Trump? Could they be asking for a bailout?
When the streets are empty, the mom and pop shop closes, the few employees lose their jobs, and they all file for bankruptcy, can they meet with Trump and ask for a bailout? Will Trump even meet with them? I find more likely that Trump will blame their problems on Obama.
22
@BWCA The airlines will get a bailout, but then the people will have no money to travel.
1
Does this mean the Trump tax cuts are not gonna pay for themselves?
20
@Eric LOL Good one!
2
@Eric - Oh THAT's why tax cuts won't pay for themselves :) Obama too - the whole universe conspires against that dotard.
1
The virus may be nowhere near as bad as the effects of our efforts to contain it. The soft underbelly of our economic survival is a just-in-time supply system dependent on the delivery of goods (food) from foreign countries. Our service industries do not contribute any real product in times of economic shutdown. The jobs disappear.
So are Trump and his cronies preparing the country for the times ahead?
14
Even a month ago I thought that the markets were completely out of touch with the reality of the effect that the virus was going to have worldwide. A lethal combination of wishful thinking, stupidity and hubris. Could they not see that airline manufacturing, ship manufacturing, airlines, cruise lines, the travel industry, tourist destinations, production of consumer goods were in the firing line. Of course in the US a perfect storm is now brewing. Increased infections, a medical system that will fail the poor and a leader completely unfit to lead in a real crisis. MAGA...hmmm.
16
What happens when all the health care worked who are very exposed become sick? A bailout for the hospital corporations?
7
The father of the nation, draft dodging Individual 1, said the following to Hannity about readmitting American victims from abroad even though they have an indisputable right to enter their own country. No wonder the markets have lost confidence.
"I felt we had to do it. And, in one way, I hated to do it statistically. I hated to do it from the standpoint of having people coming in. It's going to be -- is it going to look bad?"
He is up a creek with no moral compass.
In case you have not realised it- everything is all about him.
23
@Bob Guthrie I read a synopsis of the Hannity interview. He took credit for positive developments, and passed the buck when there were negative ones. Otherwise, the number of lies he's publicly made during his time if office increased significantly.
2
Back in the early days of the 20th Century the most famous billionaire of the day, JP Morgan, walked onto the floor of the NYSE during a "panic" and said he'd buy any stock put up for bid.
He almost single-handedly calmed the market.
With this as a precedent now is the time for our phantom-billionaire Investor-in-Chief to do the same.
C'mon Donald, pony up those "billions" and buy the market!
13
@George S.
The stock market will accept his monopoly money as legal tender.
@George S.
Correction: The stock market will NOT accept his monopoly money as legal tender.
2
I believe all of his billions are in rubles and they are being handled by a friend in Moscow.
6
Facebook is trying to stop opportunistic ads but they are fine with political ads that spread lies. What is wrong with this picture? When is it the 1st amendment glory of free speech and when is it dangerous speech? C'mon Zuckerberg. You can't have it both ways. Enough of your hypocrisy.
14
So tell me, how would this “virus” crisis be different under a President Sanders or President Biden vs. Trump? Worse? Better? Same?
1
We’d be able to believe what they told us, for one thing. Trump lies compulsively about everything, large and small, even declaring today that the WHO’s stats on mortality were “false.” Of course he knows nothing whatsoever about the veracity of their calculations — but still the pro-Trump PR just pours out of his mouth nonstop, irrespective of truth or reality.
21
You would have real numbers and free tests and adequate health care.
19
@mjgruskin
TRUST. For one thing they wouldn’t have removed all the scientist from the government and let the CDC and NIH be run by know nothing sycophants.
22
Will the last person to leave Seattle please turn out the lights.
7
This is already in your town, I bet. Let’s hope we get Medicare for all in time to make a difference.
7
I think there is a strong possibility we haven't seen the bottom of this yet. Nobody seems to question the very basis of the stock market which is since shareholders have ownership rights the value of the stock they hold should be based on future earnings. I simply don't believe in that premise as the only real value a shareholder gets (other than appreciation which is highly uncertain) is the dividend which is based on present earnings and doesn't pay hardly anything in comparison to the stock price. So what does this all mean? It means the stock market is not based on economic principles such as payouts to shareholders, but on what direction the majority are guessing the future earnings are going. This is a very shaky basis for determining value as the future direction of a company's earnings is generally unknowable. So how does this relate to today's stock market bottom? A lot lower than it is even today after an 8% loss so far.
4
Climate change is sufficiently "fuzzy" to allow us to not make the needed changes in carbon emissions to save our world. But catching and maybe dying from the coronavirus has a more immediate feeling, one that helps us weed out the necessary from the frivolous. That " $63 billion to $113 billion in annual global airline revenue could be wiped out"? It SHOULD be wiped out. So we don't need those trips now that it is life and death? Guess what - it's already life and death for our species. We just don't feel the urgency. I'm a share holder, but you know what? Before that I'm a human.
18
One thing that has not been mentioned is that President Trump closed the border with China when the coronavirus hit. He also has a senate bill on his desk for $8.3 billion to fight this illness which he about to sign. He promised he would do everything necessary to stop the flow of this disease. And he is.
3
@KMW Wow! you really need to stop drinking the Kool Aid trump is selling. He has NO IDEA what he is talking about. recall his statement that a vaccination is due in a few months? How about realistically over a year at least.
22
@KMW
You better give yourself a like quick. I won't.
8
@KMW
Trump closed the border with China AFTER the airlines announced they were suspending flights.
15
President Trump just appeared at a town hall and the people were ecstatic. Of course, these were his supporters and they will be voting for him in 2020. All sorts of questions came up about immigration, the wall. the economy and the coronavirus. He answered them in a dignified and relaxed manner. He was very impressive and presidential. If he can only keep up this pattern, he is sure to be re-elected.
1
@KMW
He never paid Stormy Daniels, Mexico will pay for the wall, the tax returns will be released after the audit, Russian interference is a hoax, impeachment is a hoax, Climate change is a hoax, The phone call was perfect.......No witnesses, No documents,...
Very presidential...for a banana republic.
28
Of course supporters are conditioned to believe any lie Trump might tell. Least presidential or morally and ethical occupant of the White House ever.
His $$ supporters are making hay off the rest of us, and don’t worry about looking at themselves in the mirror. I think I understand this—although it does affect me negatively!
What I do not understand is Trump support from people who claim to still believe in moral values, such as fidelity to marriage vows, but apparently give Trump a pass on these and other basic ethics. Certainly calls their obvious hypocrisy into the spotlight!
13
@KMW
All it took was a continuing global catastrophe outside his control which may even infect himself, known germophobe he is, to get him to act like an adult human being for 45 minutes.
Meanwhile the only legitimate basis for his reelection, the stock market, is melting faster than the polar ice caps. His reaction? Claim the 10%+ drop in market value, observable to all, is merely 1%! Dont be fooled by the fake news stock ticker!
Dear Leader is truly an American hero and an inspirational profile in leadership...
10
Don't worry everyone, Trump says it's going to be fine!
7
Why does everyone assume this is nothing? Let's talk about financials. Ho hum.
This virus is spreading like a wildfire in 18 states right now, 4x growth per week. WHO says 3.4% of people who get this will die. And we are talking about investments, and the president says this is a hoax by Democrats for political gain.
MORE AMERICANS ARE ABOUT TO DIE THAN IN BOTH WORLD WARS COMBINED!!!
Mr President, We need quarantines now!
8
Don't worry, tax cuts and interest rate cuts will cure the virus. That's the stupid republican answer to every problem.
20
The coronavirus shows what a mistake it was for states to not expand Medicaid. Residents of Alabama, Florida, Georgia, Kansas, Mississippi, Missouri, North Carolina, Oklahoma, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Wisconsin, and Wyoming are now facing the fact that irresponsible Republican politics have put them at a greater risk of catching the coronavirus, as well as a greater possibility of dying from it.
24
@Jack Edwards
All but 4 states listed are rated F in gun control laws. Interesting correlation or causation or just Darwinism.
Florida C-, North Carolina D, Tennessee D-, Wisconsin C-
https://lawcenter.giffords.org/scorecard/
3
One assumes the recent interest rate cut didn't work out either because of Hillary's emails, or because Obama's birth certificate was false, or because of the "Russia Hoax." (Russia, if you're listening!) At least it works out for the top 1% who can now benefit further from the suffering of others.
24
Trump is like a model for a character that Frank Kafka considered when he was writing the novel “Amerika”- a surreal politician that does everything wrong, but claims it’s right. The disconnect between his pathological lies and what we see in reality, and hear from WHO & CD doctors, is astounding, worthy of the bizarre circumstances that Kafka so accurately detailed more than a hundred years ago. Now the bad part: Trump’s lies kill people.
17
Trump coronates Pence as the voice of government coronavirus efforts yet Trump continues to spew Trump Tales.
Today Pence confesses that the testing isn’t so rosy as his boss portrays.
FAUCI FACTS not Trump Tales will engender the trust that might stabilize markets.
10
@Agent 99 coronates??
@John Lusk
Coronated (gr). King Trump smartly avoided calling him a czar/tsar. Plus the wordplay is clever. Corona(te), corona(virus)...
4
Not to diminish the impact of this virus, but we seem to be overreacting, here. Yes, the fatality rate of COVID-19 is much higher than the flu, but the people who have died were already vulnerable and were also susceptible to dying from a severe bout of the "regular" flu or from pneumonia. The medical community has already stated those facts and cautioned against overreaction. Yet, speculators go berserk because they aren't scientists, and so the stock markets play havoc with our retirement funds.
Again, it's tragic that this virus is particularly hurting the elderly and frail, but other "victims" are people who have abused their immune systems such as heavy smokers (witness the high percentage of Chinese men who have died--almost all abused tobacco). We need to take a deep breath here while continuing to wash our hands, working from home if we fell unwell, and covering our mouths when we cough or sneeze. The great majority of us can remain productive as long as we use common sense. Isn't that better than stockpiling bread and water and acting like the world is ending? Remember, this is NOT Ebola.
41
@TFL Covid-19 is highly regressive economically. It may be easy for YOU to work from home, and it may be easy for everyone you know and whose life you are able to imagine to work from home. Perhaps you are a well paid professional who works sitting in front of a computer.
But I have news for you.
Most people cannot work from home. They work standing up in restaurants, factories, and stores. And many of them have no sick leave so they will come to work when they have a dry cough and a fever because they cannot afford not too.
You should just remember that.
669
@TFL
In private, epidemiologists and other infectious disease experts will tell you it's likely the virus is already in most states and most major cities. We aren't testing for it, so it's probably been spreading under the radar. The government is going to try to look competent, so they won't admit that yet.
I'm a teacher. I've got three more sick days left before my pay gets docked. Our administration is telling us essentially nothing, including whether we'd get paid if school were closed for several weeks. They've told us to prepare to teach from home, but they have given no guidance on where we can find resources or guidance to help us plan for an entirely alien system to us. Some teachers will use Google Classroom, some will want to use Skype, some will not want to do anything, some will want to use their own website… it's going to be an absolute mess. And I work for one of the top three public high schools in my state, which has been nominated for a Blue Ribbon award, and which constantly places in the top 100 nationwide.
My point is that while the virus itself isn't that bad compared to our nightmare scenarios, the mishandling of the entire thing is something to be very, very worried about. Especially the election. It's entirely possible Trump will try to postpone or cancel it. And if he does, the Republicans will support him.
72
@Robert "most people cannot work from home." Very true. And there's another population who cannot work from home. In fact, they're not working at all. They're retired and are dependent on their retirement portfolios and SS to get by. These people are taking a big hit.
29
Russia conspiracy didn’t work, so now it’s fabricated health crisis resulting in financial sanctions against the USA. A joke.
7
@Pilot I just sneezed in your general direction, since this is all just a joke. Enjoy your next 2 weeks.
55
Ah, the ostrich approach
46
@Pilot So all of the people who have died around the world were actors who sacrificed their lives to get rid of trump? That makes perfect sense for about 10 people on the planet.
107
I would like to nominate Donald J. Trump for the 2020 Darwin Award, in response to his woeful handling of the COVID-19 pandemic in the USA. Honorable mention also should go to all of Trump's supporters. Their chances of extinction are greatly increased, just by listening to the incoherent ramblings of this ignorant buffoon, or his handlers on Fox News.
133
@Joe Miksis Trump would be dumb enough to brag about it at his next rally...
14
@Joe Miksis
Isn't it the Anti-Darwin Award? Or am I confusing it with the Ignoramus Award?
2
Unfortunately, Trump does not qualify for the Darwin Award. It is for doofuses who take themselves out of the gene pool through feckless behavior, yes, but also cannot be bestowed on someone who has already reproduced.
I wonder what the Chinese people think about their president and his handling of the coronavirus? This is where it all started. One Chinese influential citizen said it was more dangerous than first thought but he was brushed aside. He was the first to die from the disease in China. I am sure the citizens are not saying too many critical things about their leaders for fear of retaliation or worse.
Isn’t freedom of speech and freedom of expression wonderful? The Trump haters can say any nasty thing they want and nothing will ever happen to them. They do it all the time. Now they are blaming President Trump and his administration for this virus. If President Trump discovered a cure tomorrow for this scourge, would they be so charitable? Hardly. They would still find fault.
3
We are not blaming him for the virus; we are blaming him for the SPREAD of the virus. He called it a hoax and is no different from the Chinese leaders in this regard. How can you fail to recognize this?
28
@KMW I personally have not heard anyone blame Trump or his administration for this virus. That being said when somebody criticizes his administration for thing like cutting 80% of the CDC's budget that dealt with fighting global pandemics effectively firing lead people on the our nations global bio-defense team those would be factual and valid criticisms.
To be blunt, anyone claiming that the POTUS is responsible for this virus probably isn't worth listening to. That would of course logically include those who take issue with an issue that couldn't factually exist.
11
@KMW With all due respect, this isn't the place for fantasy, and that's exactly what it is to claim there's any chance that the dumbest president in history could ever find a "cure" for anything.
17
Let it fall! Let the entire system fall! Corporate controlled government and policies are destructive.
8
Oh jeez...
5
sure, just as long as your mom keeps paying your iPhone bill, right?
12
Trump is a stupid man who thrives on chaos but realizes market for him is all that matters.
Trump voter is an ignorant person who has no 401k but thrives on chaos.
Both will now collide.
25
Trump's MAGAs will not read this. They just watch Fox News and nod when Trump calls everything fake news.
The ignorance is more deadly than both the virus or their guns.
15
I am a huge Trump supporter, voted for him in 2016, will vote for him in 2020, and read The NY Times every day!
@Nycdweller I'm not impressed.
6
D'ya think?
"There is a lot of mean spiritedness from the Trump haters. They are ... hoping ... that the coronavirus brings down ... Trump. They thought it would happen with the Russian collusion, his impeachment trial and now this."
1
@Commenter Hey, guy! I’m not a trumpie and I don’t want the corona virus to bring anyone down. If trump and his team can defeat the virus, I will cheer.
2
Oh dear, crybaby Trump now faces a crisis he cannot control, or lie about. Maybe he should visit that cruise ship quarantined off San Francisco to prove his "hunch" that he knows more about the coronavirus than the World Health Organization.
12
The first case here in Colorado is an out-of-state visitor. Maybe people should stay home, stop traveling for business /pleasure and STOP acting like this is normal?
https://www.denverpost.com/2020/03/05/colorado-coronavirus-case-confirmed/
3
Reality Check when airplane stocks hit bottom watch stock dive back dow to 500
1
Today, I finally realized, a person would never risk their job for the sake of it's financial security and means of survival, but, they would risk their pay in the markets.
1
It’s more than just the virus. The edge of the global recession was already pushing its way into the US. ISM was in contraction before any of this happened. The market’s run up was driven by tax cuts fueling share buybacks and increased leverage through low interest rates. The tax cuts were not used to put investment capital into the economy. And now that the distorted earnings growth projections are coming back to reality, and companies are fully realizing the crimp from Trump’s ridiculous tariffs and trade war, coronavirus may push us over the edge and into a deeper recession but it was likely we were already in or close to a recession anyway. Monetary policy is out of ammunition and fiscal stimulus took its shot with a stupid idea (corporate tax cuts) instead of a good one (infrastructure spending), so no help will be forthcoming. Consumers are close to tapped out with debt and layoffs are coming. The ineptitude of this Presidency is coming home to roost. The market run up to the February high was mainly driven by the FANG stocks. Most other stocks have not had similar returns over the last 12-18 month. Defense and yield seeking has also driven investors to yield stocks fueled by artificially low rates.
11
“The concern is that almost nothing has been done to stop the spread of the virus in Europe and the U.S.”
Here in the US, Fox News is trafficking in doubt about whether the virus is deadlier than the flu and ridiculing scientists who say we need to act and act fast. Trump is repeating these false claims. Trump Republicans traffic in doubt, just as they do about climate change, but in this case this epidemic will prove them very wrong, very soon. In China deaths were doubling every five days. We’ve know that and we’ve had plenty of time to prepare but Fox News will kill us instead.
12
Granted markets all over the world are down. Unremarkably , Trump, today, totally ignored them. Just as he ignores the truth staring him in the face. He and his administration are failing the response to this virus. No testing on the scale of smaller countries, no rapid mobilization of resources or unified message, nothing.
The markets know. Trump blinked....about a month ago.
8
This is something Trump could not control, but Trump is subservient to the deals he made with China and more importantly, Russia. I have news for you, Mr. Putin: you'll be coughing soon too.
2
Trump claimed the market rise, even though most if it wasn't his (he was riding on Obama's coattails). The market fall is his, too, even though he didn't cause the coronavirus (he sure lied about it enough, though). Reap what you sow, Emperor Donald.
7
Silver lining? Airlines are canceling flights big time. A tiny little help for reducing global climate change.
5
Wall Street is showing a distinct lack of confidence in Trump's ability to stem the spread of coronavirus, and the smart money is now going to Biden. There's a lesson here: once you lose credibility as a serial liar on the little things, you can't get it back by lying about the big things. And threats to public health and safety are very big things.
14
May I suggest you print the entire scale of the graph and not just a portion as it gives a false impression of the small percenatge decline being much bigger. Thank you. It's all in the interest of stopping a stampede.
A great day!
Hopefully it goes to zero.
It's about time this crooked casino went the way of the dodo.
It's as useless as political parties.
3
@Raven
Wall Street is the tide that lifts all boats. It's not just the 1 percent. It's the retirees, the homeowners, the parents with college-bound kids. Invest prudently over time and you will make money.
You can't say that about a casino. -- thegamesmenplay.com
Virus to Trump Country: your guns and big trucks won't stop me.
11
Not to worry.
The scientist Spent-Pence has this under control.
Not to worry, "mother" will advise him.
OMG, how degraded and disgusting has this country become.
10
“When there is blood in the streets, buy. Even if the blood is your own.”
Baron Rothschild after the Battle of Waterloo
1
Remember the Ebola scare and back in 2009 the Swine Flu hysteria? Remember when President Obama blamed the media and Republicans for trying to hurt the markets to hurt his presidency? Yeah.....me neither ... because he wasn't a narcissistic infant who thought everything was about him.
23
And, at that time, trump sent over 100 tweets, including one suggesting Obama should resign.
7
I heard on TV this morning that trump should not be allowed to speak about the Coronavirus outbreak. What on earth does he think he knows. He is so very incompetent and to say there will be a vaccine in a few months is just idiotic. It will take almost two years to produce a vaccine and then more time for testing. And to say some people just go to work sick and get better. He's the one who is sick, sick in the head. We know he cannot tell there truth about anything. Does he want the deaths resulting from the virus on his head, with his irresponsible advise.
8
The mistrust, distrust, and untrustworthiness of many Americans will render many of the most useful containment strategies impossible. Why do we not have enough test kits?
Trump does not want us to know the truth. Ignorance is bliss, sometimes followed by illness, sickness, and death. The Secret Service cannot protect Trump from the virus, more likely they would be the contact source. For once, his lies won't just make everybody else nauseated, or choking - they might cause him to do the same.
8
It’s like science didn’t exist to Wall Street. We know all about viruses and how to deal with and treat them. It won’t be long before Coronavirus is just another variant of the flu we all get every year. But in the mean time let’s panic so Wall Street can feel like they run the world. Look no further than Joe Biden’s coronation as proof of that.
How many times has the index fallen more than 3% in the past two weeks? This is the steepest one week decline in history, percentage wise.
I wonder why this did not come up in the Democratic Primary bee essing last night.
2
Starbucks has taken their porcelain cups off the shelf, ostensibly to prevent virus transmission.....from the customer to the staff. What would the industry look like if all restaurants did the same and started serving on paper plates and paper cups? Optics vs reality have taken over.
1
@RonRich - What is wrong with protecting front line workers from customers' germs? Staff are people too, you know.
7
@PM
I'm with you...shut down the entire service industry.
1
@RonRich
They have also stopped allowing you to bring in a Starbucks “refillable” cup to have your purchase poured into.
2
You would all do much better not getting excited every minute in front of Televisions. They don't make money being boring, do they?
A few clues in the article; you cite an up and down of close to three percent in the markets. Who is that three percent? Are they institutional investors as I suspect, possibly playing the market? It does indicate a limited group of investors.
Even OPEC is trying cash in on the epidemic by limiting oil
and ultimately natural gas production to drive up prices when we need cheap oil the most now. That will combine with other factors to harm the world's economies.
You all need to calm yourselves and I would suggest turning off your TV's so you are not so confused and excited and can rationally prepare by reading different sources and discussing plans with your families. The TV will take you away from valuable thought and talking time.
Thank you.
2
If behavior changes (for example, hand-washing, masks, not coughing straight ahead) result in a decrease in flu deaths that more than offsets deaths from the coronavirus, will America be better off on balance?
ANSWER: Of course it will.
4
As this Trump economy drowns, m President Pathological reminds me more and more of the villain's demise in the classic film "Cape Fear." Either the Robert Mitchum or Robert De Niro version.
4
It would appear that in a crisis our financial experts and AI are as clueless as the average investor. Uncertainty in the market does not lead to good decisions.
2
I’m sensing that the lack of testing is potentially deliberate because they know that there will be a spike in the numbers and panic will follow. Specifically, the government is worried about the impact this will have on the financial markets. To some extent it is understandable why they are dragging their feet and hoping to catch the virus on the down slope, but they just appear incoherent and further confuse the market, and people are simply making individual decisions based on their best judgement.
14
This market fluctuation is bigger than the coronavirus. It is a symptom of larger sickness - a government that cannot communicate and pedals misinformation. That's the disease that's affected us all - and will continue until he is gone.
24
@Saints Fan
Oh, yes, Obama this and Obama that. Listen, a lot of jobs that were lost were not lost to trade but to technology. And a lot of workers refused to retrain, like all those miners in Kentucky who wouldn't touch the health care industry because that's women's work. Sometimes you have to move, split up a family, work two jobs or you can do what I do -- work twice as hard for two-thirds of what you once made.
Here's a hint: When an industry is depressed for, oh, more than 10 years, it's time to move on. Oddly enough, the vilified Obama spent a lot of time in Kentucky and other depressed places stimulating jobs. He wanted more money for infrastructure. McConnell said no. He tried to make community college free -- another nonstarter for Mitchie, who publicly said it was his job to block Obama in every way.
Don't blame President Barack Obama for the failure of the working class to reinvent itself. -- thegamesmenplay.com
3
It is a sign of the times that so many want to politicize a virus. There is hysteria surrounding the spread of this virus. But this will pass sooner or later, a treatment and or vaccine may materialize. A look at history tells us that those panicking and selling their investments at low prices will be major losers financially in all this.
5
DJT is getting his karmic comeuppance. Witness his treatment of Obama over Ebola. And Obama’s approach to Ebola was professional, not amateur hour.
8
@dave This, too, shall pass; there was a beginning and there shall be an end. Amen! But, wait... where does that leave us NOW? If "only" 2 or 3% die, but ten times as many get sick in a flu season that was already worse than average? How high must the mortality rate climb to demolish American healthcare as we now know it (not great)?
2
There will be more confirmed cases. A LOT more. And soon.
It could easily top 50K. It will reach into every state and most communities.
And it won’t really matter. The vast majority of the increase will simply be an artifact of greater testing.
If cases hit 50K, the U.S. could hit up to 1,000 deaths before it’s all over. Probably not, but it’s possible.
In other words, it will be about 1/25 to 1/40 of a regular flu season. For example, the U.S. already has over 16.000 flu deaths, with 18,000 to 45,000 expected in total.
All flu deaths are sad, especially if they strike a loved one. But statistically speaking, Covid-19 will be a relative non-event.
3
@John What on earth leads you to project 50K cases, as opposed to 5K or 10 million? Science and data, or your supercalifragialisticexpialidocious view of life? Calling, Miss Cleo!
5
@ Who knows
Let’s make a bet.
If the total number of deaths exceed 1,000, I’ll make a $100 donation to Doctors Without Borders.
If it’s less than 1,000, then you make a donation to the same organization.
In either case, we both take a few moments to honor the memory of those who die. Regardless of the final number, each death will be a tragedy for loved ones.
It will be on an honor system.
Deal?
3
@TFL
Not everyone in the world has a computer at home. Yeah, they should. But, hey, they don't because they can't afford it.
You're taking a hit on all these replies to your post because you seem to come across as a person of privilege. And that may be because you DO come across as a person of privilege.
A little sympathy -- for people who work on assembly lines, in restaurants where customers are going to start staying home, seniors who are at risk and who retirement nest eggs are at risk -- a little sympathy for all these people is warranted.
We're not shaming you. But you might want to modify your perspective. We're all in this together.
15
There are so many underlying bad things that strung together, should have all of us worried.
1. Trump cut funding to the NIH and CDC.
2. Scientists need to be leading the response, not politicians
3. Infected people don’t recognize they have the disease until after they have likely spread it around
4. We lack enough test kits
5. Trump will say anything to deflect blame for his mistakes of issue#1
6. Because low earning workers lack affordable healthcare and time off from employers, they cant afford to visit the doctor and will likely continue to go to work and infect others
7. Trump is minimizing the time to market for an FDA
19
@Mark
Accurate post Mark.
Trump has exacerbated the financial crisis with his dishonesty. If he were truthful the market could at least plan. Donald's myrmidons and cronies say you can't blame him for the virus. Yet if he acted honestly and expeditiously in December America would have been protected more. US experts for example should have been sent to Wuhan to gather scientific facts; supplies could have been planned for; testing kits provided.
Your point 5 is cogent.
He clearly is partly to blame for the dishonest response and lack of preparation.
For argument's sake let us just say he is 100% blameless.
But the job of the leader is to take the blame upon himself.
His job is to carry the blame. That is what the presidency is for- not to line his pockets breaking the emoluments clause. It is in the job description to carry the blame when things go wrong- not to shift it on to someone else.
Here is some ancient Chinese wisdom from Lao Tzu ( a better export than the epidemic):
"Therefore the sage says,
One who takes on himself the humiliation of the state
Is called a ruler worthy of offering sacrifices to the gods of earth and millet.
One who takes on himself the calamity of the state
Is called a king worthy of dominion over the entire empire."
That is the job of the president- not to shirk it.
8
“The buck stops here” a la Harry S. Truman
4
Communications coming from public officials have been ridiculously "American". You can never FORCE someone to help prevent the virus if they don't want to. Good philosophy for "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" but not so great for combating Covid-19.
For example, a local county health officer writes on the county website "I am not asking for implementation of the activities below at this time, and the implementation of these activities is not imminent, but these are the types of activities we MAY (my caps) need to implement in the future". And then it goes on to list a bunch of things that would absolutely prevent spreading infection that some are doing and some are not. Because hey, it's a free country.
10
Notice the difference between listing increases and losses, number or percent.
3
In response to a comment which starts, " Thought for the day. In 2018 there were 80,000 deaths in the U.S. from influenza. Where were the tests? Where were the masks? "
As far as anyone can tell, this has a much higher death rate if you are infected and incredibly aggressive measures been taken to contain/mitigate. So your question is like asking, "why worry about those new fangled gun things when swords killed thousands last year?"
9
@Pigsy
Mortality rate is unknown as a large percentage of those infected are asymptomatic or are only mildly sick and are not diagnosed. Mortality rate is almost entirely focused in elderly population.
1
@Pigsy
Also there is a vaccine for the flu; none yet for COVID19.
And despite Trump's refusal to listen to scientists, there wont be one for 12-18 months.
6
Notice the different ways increases and losses are listed.
2
If behavior changes result in a decrease in flu deaths that more than offsets deaths from the coronavirus, will America not be better off, on balance?
1
Trump needs to get out there and breathe the air. Talk is cheap mr trump.
9
@al
Why isn't he out there on the campaign trail shaking hands and kissing babies? Actually keep the babies away from those well-travelled lips.
5
The Times should go back and review their stock market headlines for the past two weeks. I’ll guarantee they find that the big increases are not as prominent as the big decreases, like today. Trump is an idiot, but you don’t have to be much more to see the bias built into everything you report that touches him, presumably in your now completely futile efforts to turn his base against him. But what fun you’re having because now you can use the virus and the market to continue your cause. Frankly, it was old two years ago, now it’s just pathetic - keep in mind that I loathe the guy and his enablers in Congress.
3
Um. The market declines have been more frequent in number and larger in scale (percentage) than the market increases. The market remains significantly off its highs despite and couple of bounce days that quickly reversed. That is just factual. Reporting on the correction and the volatility is not biased it is reporting the factual news of the day. But like most Trumpers you have no appreciation of actual facts or evidence or reality.
5
Well, containing the pandemic might stand a better chance if someone could shut up the Idiot In The Oval Office, who just told people who are sick with a potentially fatal and highly contagious disease to go to work.
22
@DLM
If everyone gets it, they don't have to worry about containment anymore. Just back to business as usual minus 2% of the population.
Problem "solved"
6
Maybe that is actually what Trump and Pence believe and want to happen!
2
@DLM
He also said the WHO statistics were false.
3
Focus on treating the sick and keeping everyone else healthy and the markets will follow. The health of the market will reflect the health of the population.
7
There is a lot of mean spiritedness from the Trump haters. They are saying (hoping really) that the coronavirus brings down President Trump. They thought it would happen with the Russian collusion, his impeachment trial and now this. He has some of the finest and brightest doctors and scientists working on the disease and he will not be defeated. Nothing he does is right and everything is wrong. He will triumph. Just give him a bit more time.
Yes, Dr Pence.
5
Speaking of mean spiritness, Trump posted about 100 awful, nasty tweets criticizing how Obama handled the Ebola outbreak back in 2014. Looks like he's getting a taste of his own medicine.
10
And you don’t see meanness daily in trump’s tweets? Did James know that one (of about 100) of trump’s tweets during the Ebola crisis suggested that Obama should resign over Ebola?
6
Why do I get the feeling that Rome is burning while the prez and his team are fiddling?
23
@Everyman Because they are not fiddling, they are tweeting.
4
All the people on Main Street USA are wondering why the heck do I care? This is all about the rich. All I know is that Trump has decimated my 401K that I needex to live on. Vote out the GOP!
13
The trader needs to stop touching his face!
10
Winning!
10
Heck of a job, Donnie!
16
I love how all the headlines and in-depth articles are about how Wall Street, corporations and investors are affected by Covid-19... meanwhile, news about what’s actually happening with the outbreak, what needs the be done, is barely a mention.
15
NYT, guess what, most people are not concerned about the Presidential Election, as much as they are concerned about the Coronavirus. Where I live, stores are all out of basic essentials: TP, water, disinfectants.
9
The one good thing about living paycheck to paycheck is you don't own stocks and you're always in a recession.
14
Have fun, cruise and airlines. Don't expect bail out when you export your tax bracket to Liberia and Ireland
10
In the midst of a real crisis, Trump is astonishingly quiet, although he may be talking to Hannity. I have a feeling he’s paralyzed. He knows he’s not making any political hay out of this. He has always been a fake - especially as President. He doesn’t have the guts, intelligence, or ability to lead this country in a time of crisis
26
The market is responding to much more that the coronavirus. It's responding to the utter nonsensical chaos of the past 3 and half years. The merry-go-round of Trump propaganda is spinning out of control and starting to catch up to out no-nothing, marketer-in-chief.
19
Trump has his arms crossed and nods when he's terrified.
18
If Hollywood ever makes Trump 2016. This will undoubtedly be Act 3
7
The Trump slump. Trump is incompetent in handling this coronovirus outbreak, the economy, and foreign policy. The sugar hit of tax cuts is over and the increase in the deficit will be a drag on the economy. Corporate debt has increased significantly due to cheap money which was used to buy back shares, not to grow the economy. The Trump slump will see bad debts on the rise and perhaps see the banking system in trouble ala 2009.
As Warren Buffett said, when the tide goes out you see who is swimming naked.
353
@Joseph B
Obama did nothing about H1N1 until over 100 people died and then he only asked for one billion dollars. trump banned flights from certain countries before we had our first death .
The measles kills about 50% of people who contract it in some third world countries so reports about the death rate for corona from China and elsewhere are irrelevant. In this country around 1000 people get measles each year and usually the death rate is zero percent.
Each year the flu kills about 30,000 people here but there isn't the mass hysteria fanned by the left wing media (almost all media) because Trump is president.
Why doesn't everyone go home and stay there given that the flu is far more deadly than corona? The media bruhaha is to damage Trump.
When Trump was elected we were long overdue for a recession but because of trump we haven't had one yet but if we do we will pull out of it quickly as was not the case with obama.
If one considers the cost of regulations and other various fees many people give 50% of their money to the government and the government wastes it and funnels it to cronies so we need more not less tax breaks . the richest counties in the country are those with the most government employees , contractors and consultants. the richest counties in the country vote overwhelmingly democrat.I live in a very rich neighborhood and almost everyone is a democrat. high taxes prevent people from getting rich but they don't make rich people poor
1
@Molly - so your theory is that people all over the world are panicking about coronavirus, as part of a coordinated global conspiracy to make Donald Trump look bad.
98
@Joseph B Agreed Joseph ! Basically, this whole 10-year "rally" in the markets has been totally funded with DEBT.
Manufacturing is well on it's way to collapsing and as soon as the consumer is unable to support the U.S. economy...Down she goes ! It won't be pretty.
42
Uncertainty
Nobody likes it
The stock market/investors hate it
Our government has raised uncertainty to new heights because experts are reporting one thing and trump contradicts those statements time after time.
I don’t believe a word spoken by trump. And even the experts don’t have all the facts yet.
At least the experts are qualifying their comments with a “based on what we know” statements.
Since there is no treatment and no vaccine, nor will there be for much more than the few months that trump claims, containing the virus should be the main objective right now. And everybody knows about washing hands, sneezing into your elbow, not touching your face, and monitoring your own situation for symptoms like shortness of breath and fever.
PLEASE just tell us the truth and stop repeatedly replaying trump’s outrageous lies.
196
@Steve Ell
I fear you do not see how effective the gaslighting has been the last 80 years. Facts are quite not what they used to be.
2
This behavior cracks me up. Never lose sight of the fact that there is always somebody out their generating a profit. And as people overanalyze the stock market to death, never lose sight of the fact that profits matter.
Proctor and Gamble...manufacturer of Chlorox bleach.... you think this virus is affecting their profits?
How about a nice, plain, vanilla, healthcare index fund?
Buy low, Sell high.
Time to buy, people.
38
@Joe B
I’be been shorting the market hard. After peak virus rates hit the US in a few weeks, prices will be lower than they are now.
12
@Joe B
I think you're right in principle.
But I think it's best to wait for "peak panic", which should hit in about two weeks.
7
@Joe B The market isn't low yet. I wouldn't be buying now. By the way, I think P&G sold its bleach business 5 years ago.
6
I'll think about a taxpayer funded bailout of the airlines as I try to find a place to place my legs when seated, and after having had to pay to check in my luggage which I now have to print and place labels on myself.
12
Stock market feels like a house of cards right now. Would seem the rebound was more a political nod than a economic decision.
8
Thought for the day. In 2018 there were 80,000 deaths in the U.S. from influenza. Where were the tests? Where were the masks? Where was the special focus on nursing homes? Where was the daily count? Where were the media pundits sounding the alarm every day?
We were dropping like flies and nobody in the media seemed to care. This was an all time high mortality rate. why no panic? Answer for the day. Not a presidential election year. If in 2021 the U.S. loses 20,000 to influenza nobody will make a big deal out of it. Are we being had?
3
@clarity007 Why was there no panic in 2018, according to your numbers? Because there wasn't an additional pandemic, silly!
3
@Who knows?
Influenza is a pandemic every year. So the first 80,000 we should be ok with
@Who knows?
Up to 500,000 globally. Pandemic?
1
Just imagine those workers of an italian shipyard building a huge cruise ship. Or the thousands of families that rely on the airline industry to make ends meet. This crisis requires some sort of FDR in the driver’s seat. Erase the partisanship and take control sooner than later.
6
What you get when the wealthy speculate on casino Wall Street. If investment was in real things instead of imaginary decimal points this wouldn't be a big problem.
7
And tomorrow the stock market will be up again. We can expect this seesaw occurrence of the stock market to continue while we are in the coronavirus phase. The other countries who are experiencing this virus are also having their ups and downs in the market. People just need to sit back, not sell and know tomorrow is another day.
3
I forget...did Miz Scarlett intone that before or after the Civil War whacked Tara?
8
I feel so lucky because I don't own any stocks. Is this the best time to buy some stocks? It just can't keep declining. Right? But I feel sorry for those rich stock owners. In 1950s I owned some RCA, IBM, and GM stocks but they were poor investments. I stop any interests in stocks. Now I have nothing to worry about. I was poorly advised by my co-workers in my office. Unless you really know about stocks just stay away from buying stocks. That's my advise. A poor man's advise.
3
It's perfectly fine to buy stocks - if you're a layman, just buy mutual funds like the S&P 500, not individual stocks (Disney, etc.) The market always trends upward so as long as you dont need the money for 5-10 years or more, you'll always come out ahead
4
@Tysons123 If you want to stare at your computer all day and worry about your stocks, sure, buy stocks. Anxiety is a great way to keep your mind off of more important things. I would not be in this market until after trump is tossed out of office.
8
Weeks after Trump requested it, House Democrats have finally gotten their act together and passed a bill to fund the fight against the coronavirus. Fortunately the progress of the disease has been slow in the US. Meanwhile, many people are doing something that they would never have considered doing previously. They are assembling an emergency supply kit for possible difficult times ahead. Some are following the advice of the FEMA or the Red Cross websites. Although there have been sensationalist reports of stores selling out of some items, every store I visited the last week has been well stocked with just about everything, even sanitizer and masks at stores that normally sell them. As people buy and sequester items in their homes, there has been enough time to restock popular items that are not made in China. The longer it takes for the epidemic to take hold, the better prepared people be.
2
@Rock Winchester , your comment is patently false. The Democrats in the Senate were prepared weeks ago for over $8 billion package. Trump was talking about under $2 billion. Trump was not even pushing for legislation. It was Schumer who took the bull by the horns and he is not even the leader of the Senate.
9
Trump told everyone it was a hoax, cut the CDC night but what???
3
Heh.
The downside for taking the credit when the stock is strong, is taking the blame when it implodes.
"It's tremendous, folks, believe me!"
17
I still smell talk about a tax cut. The problem is that the Trump administration can't come up with a sane plan. For them, a tax plan that actually might help the middle class is complicated. Who knew?
We'll see that tax proposal along with the administration's health care plan and Trump's tax returns.
Meanwhile, Trump will yell at the Fed. As a result, we could see another ill-advised and ineffective rate cut.
9
@Brian
Not complicated at all. Earned income tax credit or payroll tax rebate for incomes up to $65K.
1
@clarity007
Either one works for me. I just don’t see the Republicans doing anything unless it helps those in the higher tax brackets.
2
@clarity007
Why $65,000? What do you make $64,900?
The headline is very appropriately phrased. Market plunges because of corona virus "Fears".
Without in any way suggesting that this virus should not be treated as a serious health risk, I cannot understand the degree of fear, even panic, and often irrational reactions to it.
The reported cases of corona virus are but a fraction of a fraction of the cases of flu currently afflicting countless Americans. And, like the flu, the fatalities from the virus predominantly result from age or underlying physical conditions.
Arguments that there are probably far more instances of corona virus than have been reported are probably correct, but that serves to prove my point. Symptoms have for the most part been manageable and the people who got it recovered in full health without ever knowing they ever even had the virus.
The corona virus is simply another virus of the type that affects tens of millions of people each year. It is not Ebola. It is not the Plague. It is a virus from which the overwhelming number of people will readily recover.
Yet, many are in a sheer state of panic. Any attempt to inject reason and context into the matter is met by derision and contempt. God help he politician who even suggests that the reaction is overblown.
All we need to do is take the precautions that we normally should to prevent spread of disease.
In a few months, if not sooner, this whole episode will be but a footnote in history, and the media will have long since stopped reporting on it.
6
@Gino G
Perhaps the general citizenry is more anxious than usual.
But they are NOT the traders on Wall Street, who continue to sell.
Why? Because they don't think Trump knows what he is doing and cannot protect the American economy.
10
@Gino G , then why did Trump appoint Pence to run a task force if it is so mild? The problem with the Corona virus is not its severity but its high rate of transmission. That is why hotels are shut down in China and the airlines are doing so poorly.
4
@jonathan
Jonathon, there is no evidence that it has any higher rate of transmission than the flu or any other common virus. If it had such a high rate, millions would be afflicted. Or, maybe millions are afflicted but the cases are so mild that they never knew they had it.
I'm not saying the government should not do anything. Just guard against whipping people into such a frenzy that they fear an apocalypse coming. It is not.
Thank goodness the "Trump" stock market is so high. Investors were anticipating a "correction" at some point, so even these gyrations aren't spooking them. There's still room for some dips before investors believe a buying opportunity exists.
4
@AACNY , the "Trump" stock market? The stock market under Obama tripled from 6000 to 19,000 (the Dow that is) and was much less volatile. By contrast, the Dow has gone from 19,000 to now just about 25,000 under Trump but has been very volatile repeatedly. And with interest rates so low, when the Trumpcession hits, there will be no ammunitiion for the Fed to address it. Another Republican administration ending in economic disaster.
7
I suspect these gyrations have little to do with the Coronavirus or the elections but rather hedge funds using algorithms to play an over valued market both short and long. The technology is so good that they can’t loose as long as there is huge volume. The individual investor and 401-K is at their mercy.
12
There must be some mistake. Mr Trump explicitly said that the virus would peak at 15 cases in the U.S. and then fall to 0. Surely, surely, you're not suggesting that the President lies?
74
@Melbourne Town
Did he actually say that or you just aussie fibbing? Suspect the latter.
And once again the Republicans are leading this country into a Recession.
Thanks for that!
48
When you listen to a spin doctor like Trump instead of to real doctors at the WHO & CDC, you’re in big trouble. The spin doctor is the real threat to America’s security, and to its health, more than the COVID-19 ever will be.
26
Yes. Except that anything Fauci and CDC pros say must be cleared by Pence’s White House censors.
5
Everyone should repent. It could get worse. No vaccine for years and years. It’s a warning. Must change our ways and how we treat each other, the planet, and stop being cruel to animals.
17
@BJ
Wrong of course. Vaccine in 18 months or fewer, drug treatment approved in 6 months or fewer.
@clarity007 Wassup, Miss Cleo? RIP!
With apologies to the rank and file employees who will lose their jobs (not the greedy executives), I sincerely hope this "sinks" the cruise ship industry, which dumps raw sewage by the ton into the ocean and which burns fuel that emits thousands of tons of dangerous toxins into the air. The greenhouse gas emissions of one big cruise ship equals that of a million cars. EVERY DAY.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/may/21/the-worlds-largest-cruise-ship-and-its-supersized-pollution-problem
26
Consumer spending is almost 70% of the U.S. economy. But somehow this administration thought it would be cheaper to cut the safety net than keep that spending going in down times.
Here's a great look at the issue from Reuters:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-economy-analys/fragile-safety-net-leaves-u-s-economy-vulnerable-to-coronavirus-hit-idUSKBN20R2IM
10
you only report the bad stuff. yesterday it was up the same amount.
1
@Mick They reported that. In fact, you can check all the indexes at any time for movement over the day, the week, the month, the year, 5 years, or historically, any time you want. Check it out.
23
@Mick , yesterday the stock market went up several hundred points due to the Biden bump as health care stocks rose thinking Bernie will not be the Dem nominee.
2
@Mick Yesterday’s news reported the big gain so what are you talking about?
3
donald trump is the President. I will assume all NYT readers do research and know history.
How hard a question is this really? Can anyone name anything the guy has ultimately succeeded in accomplishing that was actually positive?
Is there any real reason to believe this same character and his crew can succeed in running the largest economy in the world?
Is there one single reason to believe Stan and Laurel will ever actually make it up those stairs with that piano?
28
@KC
For one. Only time in U.S. history I can remember when there are more job openings than unemployed.
1
The corporate greed hounds may have to lose another five thousand or more before they realize they lost the Trump bet. They might have to give up dreams of a second vacation home.
I'll have little empathy for their misery.
10
What gets me is Trump putting Pence in charge of controlling the message and managing the response to it. That’s a scientist’s job and not someone who doesn’t believe in evolution or climate change. Vote for change this November!
31
@Steve Mason
You must get all your information from CNN pundits. Almost daily there is a briefing with reps from CDC, NIH and FDA doing most of the talking.
Are you saying Half Pence isn’t in charge and that he isn’t controlling the message? Did James at home his presser where no cameras or recorders were allowed?
You must watch Fox.
2
@clarity007 The information is subject to the unqualified VP's agenda, not science or facts.
3
Guess it’s pretty undeniable we have a “president” who doesn’t have a clue what he’s doing. Not that his followers won’t continue to deny it.
20
Well, I guess the heat is off Myth Romney now.
Anyone remember impeachment? It was less than a month ago.
6
The Trump economy is sick and fragile. This slowdown will cause his demise. Few people have any faith that this administration is equipped to deal with pandemics and climate change. We are woefully unprepared as we are delusional about our prospects. Everyone believes that they can weather this storm, but just on its heels, is yet another disaster on the horizon. It's all due to the damage our lifestyle of consumption is causing to the planet. Mother Earth is screaming at us to change course. This is our wake-up call, but first, get rid of this grotesque administration.
19
@Svendska8 The consumptive lifestyle will be forced to radically shift course, whether we like it er not! We will hear the people (us) screaming.
2
@Svendska8 You are correct on every point except one. The slowdown will not cause Trump's demise. Nothing hurts Trump. Nothing.
2
So, volatile, tanking markets may trash Trumpism and Trump? If it takes a rout of equities to cure what ails us, so be it!
13
When stocks fall hard enough, maybe Mike Pence will become believable.....
4
Prepare for Black Friday. Wait ... better still, just stay home.
5
We need not worry any longer. Neither that Socialist Bernie nor the "Shrill" Warren will be able to take all the goodies away from us one percenters. Now it will be a contest between Good Ole Joe and the Orange Occupant. Neither will allow Wall Street to fail us. Bernie will rant and Elizabeth will have a plan for whatever. But Donald or Joe will make sure our portfolios remain fat.
*(all female politicians are "shrill", they just can't help it)
@RLW
You never saw it coming. You never do. Keep saying what you're saying and maybe it will stay up.
Be sure to buy the dip.
The markets have been working on the “greater fool” assumption for a while now. Might we finally have run out of fools?
6
It’s the trump slump
12
Jared Kushner just made a hefty 25 million dollar profit since Trump has been in office on a sale of equity today.
This is a current person in the Trump “administration “ and the son in law of the current president.
Where is the Republican Senate and House outrage? ? ?!
15
@Del
Every Democrat candidate save mayor Pete was a multimillionaire. Two were billionaires
1
@clarity007
Those candidates weren't the illegitimately-installed-can't-pass-a-security-check relative of the President.
2
you own this market donald.
one term and done.
see ya.
15
2 2 is always 6 if it's good for Trump.
Virus doesn't care and will find him soon.
6
it's up it's down it's up it's down. Coronavirus fears, Biden, a little kid in Des Moines sneezed and their tooth fell out. at the end of the day there's no net movement but we sure did tie ourselves in knots second over second didn't we?
2
Hey! You think this is bad? Wait till the effects of global warming really kick in. Half of Manhattan under watery. Etc.
9
@Two Americas
Now that is a positive thought
1
Trump cannot spin his way out of this one. He has been in charge for over three years and clearly he and his government were not ready to deal with this calamity. Trump may try to blame Obama or Clinton or deep state traitors or the media in collusion with the Democrats. But it will not work. The buck stops with him. The stable genius wears it and and the lack of preparation will cost him the presidency. All Americans will pay the price for his ineptitude.
17
Worry not corporate empires! We know that you’re people too. Joseph R. Biden Jr will come to your rescue if needed. The rest of us will pay for that and eat crow. We’re going to party like it’s 2008!
4
Gee, if the president ever says something that's both intelligent and true about the coronavirus outbreak in America, the stock market will take off like a rocket, right?
3
Nero fiddled while Rome burned.
Our germophobe-in-chief trump wants to live in his alternative facts universe when confronted with a true plague.
Hopefully he will continue to hold large rallies of his MAGA hat base......
8
If Mike Pence or Stephen Miller sneezed on Donald Trump, would they be considered heroes, or be arrested for attempted assassination?
10
Thats nothing , just wait until big pharma tells the people that the Covid 19 shot is going to cost thousands of dollars. We give them a billion tax dollars to develop it and they will hold us hostage for all our cash before you get the shot.
10
Make your own hand sanitizer.
2/3cup isopropyl alcohol (sold over the counter everywhere)....or vodka can also be used
1/3 cup aloe Vera gel
8-10 drops of scent....optional
mix and put in squirt bottle
Don’t drink the isopropyl alcohol. Left over Vodka is good for facing the next mess Trump creates
14
Love it!
2
The market is a jittery over-caffeinated psychopath. Why we put so much faith in it is beyond me.
10
Trumpcession.
He OWNS this, although he'll find a scattershot, word-salad way to blame this on Obama too.
7
But wait, Trump told sick people just to go back to work!
6
Germans had similar harsh results from their actions in the 1930-40's.
It is sad to say, but the foolish Trump supporters, who put this megalomaniac in the White House, need to feel some personal impact to their lives, as a consequence of of their mindless actions.
11
Trump should fire the chairman of the SEC!
2
Just imagine the irony of making a huge killing in the stock market right before the Coronavirus strikes you dead. Are these traders really thinking this through logically or just being irrational as usual.
5
Trumpcession!
He OWNS this, but he'll find a scattershot, word-salad way to blame this on Obama too.
1
How soon before Dump moves that money to his misguided wall?
3
I wonder when we will begin hearing about the virus and immigrants in the camps near the U.S./Mexican border.
5
Have the lemmings figured out yet that they are a MAJOR part of the problem??
5
The bigger news is that the President is lying to the people about this dangerous outbreak. The headline should read, "President Trump lies to the American people about the coronavirus".
9
Oh well at least you have your health as the saying goes....
1
Swings are reminiscent of the insider manipulation that went on before the big crash...
Making money for the smart shorts – and separating dumb and small investors from their money...
The new twist – whiplash-inducing 180-degree U-turns that may be engineered to both juice option prices while minimizing payout on same said options...
CD rates of 0.8%???
Effectively confiscates some people's assets...
Election will be – as it always has been – about the economy…
Even the stupid people have learned that by now…
1
All Trump truly cares about. Ironic coming from a mentally-deteriorating germaphobe.
6
Have more people died of Corona or being murdered by undocumented immigrants? What’s the emergency in California now? Just sayin....
@skyfiber More people have died of Coronavirus. Just sayin.
2
@skyfiber
Nobody knows the answer
The fundamental problem with a guy like Trump has always been that sooner or later, he’s an idiot who always runs out of luck—and has always gambled with money he doesn’t have, alienated or just plain attacked anybody who works for him or deals with him, counted on crashing anything that might get in his way, and depended on getting out of the consequences by easing it on down the road to the next sucker.
That’s fine, I guess, if you’re just a dodgy real estate speculator who shows up on TV a lot. There’ll always be new horizons, especially if you’re really aggressive and completely amoral. You won’t even bang your nose on material reality all that often, and whenyou do, you can always just bellow until it goes away.
But as President—well, you better stay really, really lucky. Because sooner or later, Something will always happen. And then, since you’ve trashed everything that the job depends on, and there’s no place down the road to ease it on down to...
Well, you got two choices. You can amp up the crazy even more, and hope everybody bursts into tears and surrenders. Or you can do what Trump seems to be doing currently, which is to flail around helplessly.
Myself, I have this sneaking feeling that an awful lot of Trumpists, up to and including Mike Pence, have had a nasty, embarassing, brief thought at least twice in the last month:
“Man, I wish Obama was still in charge.”
14
The "big one" is here. And we have a con man in the White House who keeps lying to the public.
15
@Avi Houston
What big one. in 2018 80,000 Americans died from influenza. Did you notice? Didn't think so
@clarity007
We don't have a final tally for this one yet.
Did you notice? Didn't think so.
4
Trump has morally bankrupted this country, and now his lies and misinformation about coronavirus will financially bankrupt us. I sincerely believe that this is God’s punishment for putting such an immoral, disgraceful man in the highest office in the land.
11
Trump’s carnage
6
@Iced Tea-party
Very likely in the end more murders in NYC then die from COVID-19
@clarity007 he’s got responsibility for those murders too.
Maybe the religious fundamentalists in this country, who were fine with putting refugee children in cages, will, on cue, flagellate themselves in the streets to ward off God’s punishment? I’m looking forward to that.
10
Since the economy is coming to a halt, why doesn’t Trump just put the markets on hold? Use his unlimited power for something positive.
1
True investors, as opposed to short-term speculators and traders, should be immune to the effects of the coronavirus, because it will pass. There is a lot of short-term thinking and panicking in the market's recent downs and ups.
3
My guess is that the stock market wouldn't be hurting so badly if investors had confidence in this so-called administration's handling of the coronavirus pandemic.
Perhaps they should have set aside some of the money used for tax cuts for the rich, border walls, missile strikes, and the presidents many trips to rallies, golf courses and "secret"meetings with North Korea's leader.
Perhaps they should have kept more scientists and doctors on the payroll.
Perhaps they could send some one out to the microphones who can actually articulate clearly and who actually knows what he's talking about as he reassures the public with facts rather than hunches.
316
@furnmtz
I hear that many scientists left the government during Trump's shutdown when they weren't being paid for their work. Why isn't there more discussion of this?
24
@Charlesbalpha Again I'm guessing that it was probably more than a payday problem. Who knows how they were being treated or what they were being told about their departments' feasibility before and after the shutdown.
9
@furnmtz
Question why no panic when 80,000 Americans died from the flu in 2018? Oh, right not a presidential election year
1
I'm not sure what's scarier: the idea that Donald Trump really doesn't know anything about viruses, and therefore says stupid and ignorant (and dangerous) things; or that he just wants the stock market to stay up, so he'll say stupid, ignorant and dangerous things just to try and make it happen.
Sadly, his mercenary instincts are probably spot on—if the market is up, he probably wins re-election; and if it tanks, he loses. Who cares about people's actual health?
183
@Mark Holmes
Actually, I think he's toast no matter what happens to the Market. The drop will be deep and the recovery slow but the national Democratic turnout for the primaries on Super Tuesday is what he really needs to worry about. The country is turning against him.
17
@Mark Holmes It was reported that he still didn’t seem to process the fact that producing a vaccine means conducting months and months of trials before it can be deployed. He even at one point asked whether the flu vaccine could be used to combat coronavirus.he
I say he is stupid rather than ignorant
8
@YMR
The country has turned against him. Super Tuesday is a follow-through from the 2018 election.
1
China’s numbers are starting to come down. It will run its course. We may see a little more of a spike, but it will run its course. Don’t freak out.
4
@JOSEPH ~
Probably true. Eventually.
Although China has shut down major portions of it's economy and "quarantined" 300 million people in lock downs in their own homes.
Not quite what we can do here.
5
@JOSEPH America's numbers are going up. China can control its population, the USA is ill prepared for this pandemic. Remember a large percent of the US population is uninsured and does not have access to proper healthcare.
Corporate debt has increased over 50% since the last recession. There will be a huge flow on effect that may lead us into the next recession.
4
@JOSEPH wrote: "China’s numbers are starting to come down. It will run its course."
China's numbers are coming down because they took aggressive steps to stop the disease. They locked down entire cities, and put thousands of people in quarantine. This limited total number of patients to 80,430, with about 100 new patients per day now. If they had not done this, millions of people in China would have the disease. If we do not take similar steps, millions of Americans will soon have the disease.
This was best explained by Dr. Bruce Aylward of the W.H.O. who recently returned from China. See:
https://www.vox.com/2020/3/2/21161067/coronavirus-covid19-china
3
Supposing I am holed up in my ten million dollar luxury townhouse today somewhere in New York waiting for a box of Goldenberg Peanut Chews to be delivered to me by Amazon.com, or am anxiously awaiting an order of spareribs and steamed dumplings from Grubhub … and the guy who delivers them to me is coughing.
What do I call?
Is there any safe place for me to go to?
Inquiring minds would like to know.
97
@A. Stanton
C'mon let's be real here.
No one who orders the spare ribs gets the dumplings steamed instead of fried.
43
@A. Stanton
Yes, you can go to your fancy kitchen that is part of your million dollar luxury townhouse and start cooking or learn to cook. It's much healthier, cleaner and you will be happy :-).
14
@A. Stanton Cook your own food if you're "holed up" and bake some cookies Many stores in NYC will deliver the ingredients and leave them outside your door!
11
We seem to have now entered into the realm of complete panic in the marketplace. The reaction from this pandemic seems to have triggered a long overdue correction of what was a way overpriced market.
But now it's headed to declines that are beyond a reasonable correction reaction into the area of manic pandemonium.
Probably nothing can stop this from running its course. No Fed action can stem such a panic and it's as likely as not that anything Trump says will be inappropriate, self-serving and somehow he'll blame it all on Pelosi, Obama and the Democrats!
10
@George S.
I think there's a lot more correction needed.
1
@Thomas Zaslavsky
You may be right but I didn't want to say it!
1
Finally, "the chickens are coming home to roost".
The "Stable Genius" can't escape that the appalling readiness to be in a position to detect, mobilize and quickly and accurately follow the necessary path to cope with a viral epidemic, which is well on its way to becoming a pandemic.
Without belabouring this, even the tools to scan, detect and access the necessary materials to be in a position to determine and act are either faulty or in short supply.
The first approach was to downplay such a reality, with his pronouncement that this will disappear in a few weeks.
Now, the whole exercise is being categorized as an over-amped Democratic stunt which now includes the financial market reaction and consequences.
It can't belong until he will fire some token loyal staff in an attempt to pass the blame along.
The prospect of 4 more years of this playbook is almost beyond belief.
18
@lecourt... Based on the headlines developing, it's going to be Pence for the blame.
1
Fooey on United Airlines. Tried to get a voucher on a non-refundable ticket to London next mo. Even offered to pay extra to change my ticket to a voucher to be used within a yr. United Airlines said NO.
6
Why not more in-depth reportage on the actual effects of those who have it now? No one seems to much at all anything about it. Hopefully it is a pandemic of fear rather than of a virus
5
@M brown
The NYT has previously reported that the number of deaths in China is something like 0.4%. The NYT has also reported that there are many more deaths from the flu than from the virus. The NYT has further reported that the deaths from the present virus were of folks who had other health conditions, such as heart failure.
I don't know why folks are in the box stores buying up everything related to cleaning.
I received a notice today from Staples that they're trying their best to keep cleaning products in stock.
I'm not panicking. The Y2K was enough to know when we've been had!
From what I understand the 3.4 percent death rate is largely caused by people with weaker immune systems. Older folks and those with disorders
1
Is it possible that fear of stock market volatility is a contributing factor in the slow pace of widespread coronavirus testing in the U.S. This is especially curious since such tests appear to be readily available in other nations. Yet, large-scale testing is just emerging in the U.S.
8
Trump gave away the treasury with tax cuts to the wealthy and corporate CEOs who squandered the money on stock buybacks. Now they're cashing out, with ordinary workers and retirees holding the bag. He squandered a rate cut, leaving fewer options for reviving a recessionary economy. Trump will be tossed out of office in November and sent to jail soon thereafter. A democratic placeholder president will take over until 2024, when another democrat with at least half the brain-power of Elizabeth Warren takes over. My only hope at this point is that placeholder president reverses the tax cuts on DAY ONE and plans on a huge infrastructure project starting almost immediately. Oh, and a Democratic Senate and House is required. Otherwise, keep selling your shares and wash your hands.
25
@Angela
Spot on scenario. I also believe that more people than we think will abandon Trump. It's pretty obvious now that he in completely and utterly incompetent in an emergency situation (in addition to everything else) and this is not the last one we will have. Four more years will ruin this country, economically and otherwise.
7
What we have been seeing in the last few days is churning. The virus is the excuse to churn. A full blown pandemic may be coming. And given the way the bone heads in Washington are handling things the virus will be devastating in the US. Then the market will have a good reason to tank. But for now the powers that be or rather the algorithms that be are churning, buying like mad today and selling like mad tomorrow to get the commissions while all the pundits say it's the virus. Up a 1000 yesterday, down a 1000 today..who wants to bet it's up tomorrow? The trick now is to figure when the markets will stay down BECAUSE of the virus and plan accordingly.
8
I hate to see any business suffer as we see the economic ramifications COVID-19. However, I’m having a difficult time finding pity on domestic air carriers and the notion they might lose some revenue. Since 2001, the big airline companies have socked it to the American consumer with fees for every little convenience. Let the airlines hurt a little, it might remind the airline CEO’s who really matters here.
30
@Ladd Smith
"I hate to see any business suffer as we see the economic ramifications COVID-19."
If any businesses are suffering, they can console themselves by meditating on how much money they saved as a result of Trump's huge tax cut.
7
The stock market plunge is reflecting the confidence investors have in Trump and the GOP led government. Perhaps corona isn’t so bad after all if it can highlight the real mess the country is in and pave the way for a blue victory come November.
20
Sounds like industries need to reconfigure their risk management. They may need to set up the equivalent of a Health Savings Account (HSA) for rainy days like this.
8
@Anscombe Please forward this to Bret Stephens, who has glibly fostered the cold-hearted HSA as a super solution for the sick and injured in the USA. Your idea actually makes far more sense for cash rich companies.
my safe full of cash never loses money. and I never have to pay fees to make trades or withdraw when needed.
more of you should be all cash. it as has always been king.
always.
6
@me
Cash looses money to inflation. What little return it makes is taxed at the marginal income rate.
Everyone should have a rainy day fund though and having some on hand to invest in days like this is a good bet as well.
Now is the time, or it soon will be, to put some of that cash to work.
5
I own my own business. if I work smarter and a little harder I can earn 10 to 15 percent more each year. year over year for decades.
the market has lost trillions in the past 2 weeks alone. over decades, tens of trillions.
why does Warren Buffett have billions in liquid cash if it wasn't the smart thing to do?
2
Same here. I don’t trust financial institutions at all. They will always look out for themselves. And what happens if for some crazy reason you can’t access your bank or credit card? No thanks. We keep a little in the bank, but the rest is cash in a safe.
1
This crisis will reshape forever the way businesses are conducted. One thing is 100% sure: China caused this havoc and the price tag for it will be gigantic.
It will have an unprecedented impact. Who will want to deal with China after this disaster? no one!
China at least in its communist version is completely finished. I Will not be surprised of a fake revolution to try to keep themselves afloat.
3
@sebastian
Other things may also affect the way businesses are conducted. By looking at Trump, we have discovered all the trickery that CEOs practice to enrich themselves.
1
@sebastian The lure of China for corporations isn't as much the cheap labor, but the huge market for selling goods. It's also a quickly growing market. Corporations love nothing more than a quickly growing market, so China is the crown jewel of all the world's marketplaces.
1
Hopefully the president can get down to Mar a Lago this weekend. He needs a new sense of direction. We'll have to wait until Monday to learn what many people are saying but it should be worth it.
10
So maybe cramming 300 people on a 5 hour flight, and then giving workers an hour to clean the plane up before the next flight isn’t such a good business model after all.
21
No need for panic. Wall Street will rebound as soon as somebody figures out a way to monetize the problem.
12
@Misterbianco
That's well under way. Invest in Nextfix, Amazon, Kimberly Clark, etc.
It’s all gambling. The stock price is not an indicator for reality. We try to post-rationalize it’s random ups and downs. Creating hypothesis why it goes down and why up. And like always: there are experts who will tell us that they exactly saw this up or this down turn coming.
1
I recently thought I might try investing directly in the market for fun... kind of as a hobby. It quickly became clear to me that the market is largely untethered from reality. There are experts who claim to understand it, but I doubt they do. Has anyone done a statistical analysis of expert predictions vs. what the market actually does? It wouldn't surprise me if expert predictive power was very weak.
1
@Oliver its a "reality indictor" of supply and demand.
Now who is this "we"?
@LA its an I indicator of supply and demand of stocks. which doesn't equal supply and demand in economy. Supply and demand doesn't change within 24 hours. we is we all and the news circle which is eager to amplify breezes into storms. because storms are news.
Maybe if there is a silver lining in all this, is that humans have to accept and meet a new "two flu-like virus" world together.... We need to figure a way together that crosses nation boundaries. The endgame of today's coronavirus times may in fact be when: "On my, I have a real case of the flu!" and "Oh my, I have a real case of Covid-19!!" finally have the same freak-out factor for kids, Moms, Dads, CEOs and Generals etc. Of course we have to firmly establish how equal the two viruses are. But its looking that they pretty much are. We need invent new thinking, new education, new wellness training, new social psychology that can get us to a new "old flu plus this new flu" normality (it may be the best also unavoidable outcome ). We must move forward together around the globe to realign thinking about what is flu danger and risk: adjust the old well accepted influenza standard. It can also help teach us how to do human community design without borders? Gotta hope. Could be applied next to climate, water shortages, food production? They're coming.
1
I would like to see this global crisis impel the US to train and educate far more doctors and nurses than we do now, so there will be enough skilled medical people to care for underserved hospitals and rural areas and to deal with epidemics. So our health care people aren't worked to exhaustion or death.
10
@Hector
Our main problem in turning out primary care doctors is that they cannot afford to pay their student loan burden off anything less than a specialist's salary.
Save a penny, spend a pound.
16
How do you determine the cause of stock market fluctuations? Like most people, I don't have a bunch of money to play with and don't pay much attention to the markets. The markets constantly go up and down. Recently, I've heard a down swing attributed to coronavirus and an upswing attributed to the primary results. From the outside, it feels massively subjective - like there are always a million reasons it could go this way or that, and whoever is writing the headline has free reign (and the cover of confusion) to claim that this or that caused the change. Who accounts for the claims based on markert fluctuations?
6
@Kyle As far as I know, there are no statistical analyses that can point to exactly what causes market fluctuations; even it there were, they would be of little benefit in predicting the market's reactions to unknown future events. But I do believe that the major swings are occurring because of the twins known as Greed and Fear. Fear of the virus's economic effects caused many to sell, for sure (including me!). The Fed's decision to lower rates by half a point gave a temporary boost, because in the past this action has spurred the market, but I don't think that action will matter much compared to the uncertainty about the virus's effects. The markets were certainly relieved that a centrist may win the Democratic nomination, which should minimize the political effects on the market for a while.
All of these factors drive stocks, in addition to the inherent value and future prospects of each company.
The stock market is a bit of a casino, because there is so much beyond an investor's control.
1
@Kyle
Drops are amplified because many funds have to sell when the price has dropped by a certain amount, which then causes the price to drop more, which then triggers more selling, which...
1
@Kyle
Waves go up and down with such regularity that they are usually unworthy of comment. But every once in a while there is a tsunami.
1
Is coronavirus among the class of pathogens that can be tweeted into dormancy? If so I have a plan.
12
What concerns me is a president who will do anything to gain reelection. Trump already squandered the first step — an interest rate cut — so now I expect corporate welfare in an effort to prop up the market indices. The righties who screamed at Obama’s post-2008 measures will no doubt cheer while the government chooses winners and losers. Of course, the ultimate losers are the taxpayers, especially our kids who will be burdened forever with the bill.
Sadly, given the present situation, we probably are heading into a global recession.
29
Americans are expected to have savings to get through the unexpected and yet, big corporations making huge profits are expecting that they will be bailed out.
Who is going to bail out those struggling to live paycheck to paycheck when they can’t work?
62
@T. B. no bailout for you. This is America; if you or I file for bankruptcy it's a moral failing. If a corporation does so it's a sound business decision.
20
@T. B.
And the multiple millions of American Citizens that do not have Health Insurance?
16
@T. B.
Who is going to bail out those struggling to live paycheck to paycheck.....?
Not republicans. And you can take THAT to the bank!
1
Stock markets were priced for perfection in an imperfect world.
As with Wile E. Coyote, investors ran off the cliff with legs churning in mid-air. The virus issue was the catalyst that forced them to look down.
11
@Michael Stocks are "priced" by buyers, just like everything else sold at at an arm's length transaction.
no problem, just cut rates again, and again, and again.
7
The Fed is not going to be able to make this go away with a rate cut. Unlike a lot of other financial market turbulence, this is not just in the fevered imagination of speculators. An epidemic has real world impact. Maybe if people with big stock portfolios were a bit less short-sighted and did not demand low taxes uber alles, and we had a more robust public health infrastructure to get at the root cause of the stock plunge...
35
@citybumpkin maybe our for profit health insurance companies will come to the rescue!
1
There's a silver lining in this cloud of doom. Stocks in pharmaceudicals are trending up by 25%, all other healthcare industries and products following close behind.
Your for profit health care will reap billions on this little bug for the benefit of whom? $3,000 for a coronavirus test one week ago. Enough said.
19
Actually, I’d kind of add that you may want to find out where pharmaceuticals actually get made, and just how well those factories are doing these days.
12
@Robert
The FDA needs to release its list of 2200 "drugs of concern" due to their main ingredients (or entire content) being made in China.
Our current government has no room to talk about China's secrecy to try to avoid "social unrest".
9
@Memi von Gaza Do you know who owns most of the stock in so-called "for profit" health care? Average people nearing retirement. Pharmaceutical stocks are some of the most stable stocks with the best growth potential, so they are disproportionately allocated to retirement funds. You want to chew on the billionaires you think are invested in big pharma? You're picking a fight with the wrong guys.
2
Reliable data coming from Italy indicates that two and a half weeks ago the virus was first detected in a small sample in Northern Italy. In the last 24 hours 45 people have died ..... most of the deaths occurred in seniors 66-90 ...... and the comprehensive total of those sick is 3000 people. This disease could have a devastating impact on the elderly in Florida.
25
@PeterH not could, will, especially with Trump and Pence in control of the narrative!
1
I wonder how the "very stable genius" is feeling now? Will he be able to enjoy his burger and Cola this evening, I wonder? Or will he simply rail that Jerome Powell hasn't acted quickly enough and gone far enough with 'dem da' interest rates? I feel sure that Trump's dreams will turn into nightmares tonight.
25
@Mark Alexander
He'll concoct a way to directly or indirectly blame Obama, in the code words of "The Previous Administration"
3
@Mark Alexander
Actually, no. Our President is an uber narcissist. He's convinced himself that somehow Obama is responsible for our lack of preparedness, and that the stock market decline is due to the Democrats and the media spreading "fake news." As long as he doesn't contract coronavirus, he won't lose any sleep. I suppose that like many narcissists, he views his children as extensions of himself, so he'd probably be upset if they got sick. He thinks he's invulnerable to criticism, and will go on thinking it until he (hopefully) loses in November. In January 2021 the army will probably have to remove him from the White House forcibly.
3
@Mark Alexander
I have every confidence that President Archie Bunker will come up with a plan to deceive the people and manipulate the markets. MAKE AMERICA GYRATE AGAIN!
4
We should bail them out in relation to what they pay in corporate taxes. Let's start with Amazon. Oh wait . . . it's zero.
42
What markets are really pricing into stock values is the incompetence of Trump and his sycophants. I was commenting a month ago that I felt like we were slow walking into a crisis and very few people saw it. I went cash in January so no harm to my pocket but I realise I live in an economy where my income is driven by other people’s spending so it will hit me too just not in my stock portfolio.
23
So it seems all of America - or at least the government and media, are far more interested in preserving the wealth of the rich gamblers on the stock market than the lives of regular people dying of the virus. People who buy stocks are gambling on a market. Bad gamble - they are loosing. Frankly too bad - should have been smarter.
14
@James Ford Rich people don't "gamble on the stock market", suckers do. Its called "day trading"
3
So I guess it wasn’t Bernie’s fault, then. As was reported yesterday based on the the thoughts of a genius with Chase.
9
Looks like the Trump Slump is still with us. Shame he ruined the market.
I mean, he did claim to be responsible for it a few short weeks ago. And now the little man OWNS it.
Nice.
22
As I stated yesterday, it is easy to pick people's pockets when they are in a panic.
6
How can private companies restrict the travel of their employees???
2
They can restrict any travel related to that business, but probably not travel for personal reasons.
7
@Justin They don't pay for the travel and cancel company related business meetings requiring travel
1
@Justin business travel, not personal vacations.
1
The s&p should be around 2000 and dj around 20000, the market is still way too high. And the CV is by no means a terribly deadly virus but it’s incredibly contagious and can make you very sick, and if you are already sick you could die from it, and stop comparing it with the flu.
9
Unsurprisingly, Trump's strategy is to tweet nothing but lies about the present situation. And as the virus spreads - and it will - his lies will continue to tank the market, as it becomes even more evident that we are rudderless - that our government's top priority is to make sure the president looks good.
(and despite this gross mismanagement, he stands a good chance of winning re-election! Insane)
21
I feel sorry for the airlines. It does seem that antiseptic cleaning post and prior to what flights will continue is called for.
There is antiseptic and then mechanical cleaning. Mechanical is pushing germs or virus off of your hands when you wash with soap.
Antiseptic is using a chemical that kills the virus or bacteria.
This is what I remember from my microbiology class, the one I took as an elective. I have reasons to be proud of my D.
Thanks, I had fun, Ms. Moss.
5
@Russell Scott Day
Good for you! I love shout outs to teachers! If Ms. Moss is still with us, I hope you let her know she "did good."
1
Isn't this the same 1,000 or so points that's been bouncing around -- in both directions --all week?
Isn't this the same 3,500 or so points that have been up & down and down and up over and over for the past 2, 2-1/2 weeks?
All this hue & cry, over same narrow number/slice: Not sure warranted.
4
No, it isn’t. Look at a graph of the last weeks.
Maybe we could bail out one plane for each airline and then charge them an extra ransom for each additional aircraft.
2
@Billy
If we do any bailing out of air lines, their not being allowed to charge to check a bag should be part of the deal. They should also be required to assign one overhead compartment to each seat, and to enforce that other bags fit under the seat in front of you.
1
Vote Joe! Vote for the status quo! Get your status quo here!
4
@Andrew your logical fallacy is false equivalency
1
hey press corps, please ask the following in the next coronavirus briefing by Mike Pence:
"When will you initiate the 25th amendment process to remove Donald J. Trump before he kills us all'?
you're welcome.
17
Trump’s family would do well to keep him from making comments about something he knows nothing about which means he’d never say anything. Please, god/whomever, make it so...
12
What happens when daycare facilities start closing?
15
@vm
They should close first. Children are the spreaders of disease. Even if they are less likely to catch Covfefe they can still be carriers.
2
This is the difference between reactive and proactive, that wasteful government socialist stuff. Proactive would have meant we might not have seen a pandemic reach this point and conservatives could complain about government “waste.”
15
@Michael That's exactly what Trump did to the CDC! Cut Obama's pandemic programs because of "government waste"
3
I'm happy that economic activity is slowing which helps protect the environment. Also, the worse the economy is, the more likely it is that tRump will lose in November.
24
@Bertha I wonder you'll still be as happy when the slowdown leads to you losing your job and not being able to pay rent.
Or maybe you're independently wealthy. I think sometimes that's the only possible explanation for some of these comments.
11
@citybumpkin
Or perhaps many of us already live frugal lives not dependent on non-stop consumption, an inhumane stock market, or winner-takes-all capitalism that does literally nothing to address health care, education, and much more for everyone else. I couldn’t care less about losses in the stock market and if vulture capitalists and their enabling employees suffer, so be it. Average Americans have been suffering since Reagan said government was the problem and not the immoral wealth hoarders who destroyed American manufacturing and its dependent communities for the sake of profit.
I’ve already been unemployed and without housing in the past and would be even happier to go back to that condition if it meant the end of American capitalism. Take a look at the article on preparing to live in the Stone Age because it sounds like you may need it. Not everyone is so enamored with American capitalism that they can’t imagine life without it.
24
@Bertha
I'm all for Trump not being reelected. However, people dying or losing their lives' savings are high prices to pay. I can't help but wonder what your economic situation is. I think a person would have to be extraordinarily wealthy or extraordinarily naive economically to be "happy" about the financial repercussions of this situation.
4
Has minority rule sped this once-great nation toward an inevitable status as a minor nation? Leadership, or the lack of it, may have measure-able consequences.
23
@irradiated me Agreed. Some of the behavior can be likened to that of a medieval fiefdom. Brother Cadfael where are you when we need you?
2
As the President continues to make foolish and uninformed statements about the Covid-19 crisis, and as he continues to display an ineffective and highly politicized administrative response to the emergent threat, investors will continue to show their lack of confidence in his leadership by withdrawing from the Market.
It's that simple.
The previous administration, confronted with similar disease pandemics, had built a strong and largely effective governmental apparatus to coordinate an effective governmental response to such threats. The present administration has foolishly and imprudently dismantled that bureaucracy, leaving the government largely as helpless as it once was to mount an effective response to the present disease threat.
Is there any wonder that investors are showing such a strong display of "NO CONFIDENCE" as they are?
85
“The concern is that almost nothing has been done to stop the spread of the virus in the U.S. and Europe…"
I love the concepts of our American experience and experiment.
But, I read that line and had a chilling thought.
Is it possible that the existential threats we may face in the coming decades - economic dislocation, super bacteria and viruses, migrations - climate change exacerbating it all - are all going to need a more centrally based government (like China, doing a better job at least of containment) to effect solutions?
Can we live with the slow wheels of democracy, in Europe and the US, and our prized individual freedoms, in the face of these issues?
Perhaps we need to acknowledge that central, emergency powers may be needed at times which go against every fiber of our belief about our republic.
A conversation is needed to define scenarios and expectations and, most importantly, limitations on emergency powers.
5
@Paul King
I think there needs to be a sort of give and take, an understanding that in the face of a mounting threat we have to collectivize occasionally under a central-based government. The problem with that is that it is a scary and dangerous proposal because, as we know, giving the government more power than it already has over the lives of citizens can be a slippery slope. I don't think that there need be a zero-sum thought process to it, but rather it should be a "what should we do to survive and ensure democracy survives with us?" You know?@Paul King I think there needs to be a sort of give and take; an understanding that in the face of a mounting threat we have to collectivize occasionally under a central-based government. The problem with that is that it is a scary and dangerous proposal because, as we know, giving the government more power than it already has over the lives of citizens can be a slippery slope. I don't think that there need be a zero-sum thought process to it, but rather it should be a "what should we do to survive and ensure democracy survives with us?" You know?
1
@Paul King
Trump, is Paul King your latest fake name? Judging by the big words used Stephen Miller wrote it.
1
Big Finance was trying to keep the bubble going until November to help Trump- and because they are afraid of him. Then they were going to Take their profits and run- again.
But things got too shaky so they are bailing now.
The DOW will be under 20,000 on Election Day- maybe sooner given these 80, 900, 1,000 points in a day drops.
14
The virus outbreak will politically kill Trump. Even if eventually there is an effective treatment - Congress will take credit for helping fund it. Trump handed the Democrats a victory unless they blow it. No, Trump did not cause the virus, but he caused this country to be totally unprepared when more than decimated the CDC (to pay for his tax cuts to the super rich) and no one will or should ever forget it, or forgive Trump for it. Now just watch him try to bail out the companies (including Boeing) who least deserve it.
53
Trump might try to use the risk of contagion to cancel the elections and remain in office just as Giuliani tried to do after 9/11.
4
@Mattfr
He might try it, now that you've given hm the idea.
I know it is working for climate change, but I’m beginning to wonder if small government and science denial will see us through this crisis.
Hopefully everyone used those tax cuts to buy N-95 mask.
Maybe Trump’s decision to put Pence and Azar (both lawyers) in charge of the Coronavirus Task force was the right one.
Gutsy move. I would have gone with a physican and an epidemiologist instead, but I guess it is awkward to use scientists to deny science.
27
@✅✅Dr. TLS✅✅ those tax cuts went to stock buy-backs.
So all the money that flowed into stock holders pockets from the bump in share value (from said buy-backs) was added to the tab that your kids and grandkids are going to have to pay.
THAT'S what happens when you vote for Republicans
4
I hate short term investors. Can we make the system more long term like years at a time.
6
Apart from the human toll, it also saddens me to see the damage done to the airline industry by this virus. As a businessman I am aware that running an airline is, in the best of times, a razor-thin business model. Once you start flying your big rigs half empty, they make a net loss. If you have to park them, they still cost a fortune in storage fees, maintenance and often in multi-million leasing contracts that still need to be honored. Then there are the thousands of well-paying jobs that disappear.
My manufacturing business will survive this crisis. We build stuff, our supply chain is unperturbed, our customers are still buying. But we are not traveling for business anymore. We don't even accept visitors from countries like Italy or China anymore. Every interaction with external stakeholders is moving to online conferencing. Employees are discouraged from taking vacation that involves flying to foreign destinations.
For the airline business this could be a crippling blow. Once the dust settles, when many airlines around the globe have gone bust, we will find ourselves with less choice, poorer service, thousands of highly qualified unemployed people, and a heavily crippled travel industry.
14
@Andy oh well! Them's the breaks of free enterprise.
Those airlines and other businesses can "grab their bootstraps" just like Republicans ALWAYS suggest to folks who cant live off their wages
3
They are now saying that money has all kind of bacteria so handle accordingly. It has been touched by so many people and germs can linger. Constant washing of hands helps and just using common sense. We should not become paranoid but cautious.
8
@KMW - Yes, I have started a pro-bono public health service to take care of this problem. Please seal all your cash in clear plastic envelopes and send it to me. I will bear the risk and take care of its disposal.
30
@KMW
A few points:
Who uses "cash" to pay for anything anymore?
Any surface (including door knobs, your skin stomach) can be inhabited by bacteria. Even the outside and inside of anything. Most are not harmful and we could not live without them. Get over that.
FYI - a virus is not a bacteria
Just because you are paranoid does not mean there are not things out to kill you. Both can be true at the same time.
Finally, it is later than you know. Go out do something nice for someone else and stop worrying about yourself so much. None of us is that important (none being singular, not plural).
It is never too late for a single malt.
4
That is a threat long before Coronavirus with flu and drugs on the surfaces.
1
STOCKS CRASH: The Dow dropped over 1,100 points near closing time, losing more than 3% in a single day for the fourth time in two weeks. Coronavirus fears have been driving recent wild market swings, but Twitter has been following SNL's lead in describing this month's big losses as the 'Trump Slump.'
18
@Christine
Since we are living in a time of extreme sloganeering I think "Trump slump" could be killing the stable genius. It is very short, very precise and it hits the sweet spot.
1
What is the current objective of working from home, limiting travel, etc.? Is it to completely eradicate the virus, or to limit its spread until a vaccine can be developed? This virus is extremely contagious, and its worldwide spread is inevitable, regardless of prevention efforts, at least until some sort of vaccine is created. So any effort to eradicate the virus is futile.
At what point do we accept that we are up against something that we don't really have much control over? Unless an effective vaccine is near completion, is it worth total disruption to merely slow down the inevitable spread of the virus? Obviously we should take reasonable and practical preventive steps to avoid the spread of the virus, especially for at-risk individuals, but some of the efforts thus far (e.g., quarantining of cruise ships) seem overly drastic, given the inevitability of the virus's spread. We need to develop a realistic game plan that acknowledges the extremely contagious nature of the virus, instead of pretending that it's not too late to eradicate it completely.
8
@Tyler
Slow it down. Limits exposure.
Gives us time to prepare.
8
@Mathias I'd say it buys some time to react. The time to prepare was weeks ago, but Trump said it was all good!
5
@Tyler For one thing, to prevent hospitals from being overwhelmed all at once.
6
If nobody travels and stays close to home, wouldn’t that be good for the local economy. Certainly gas prices will go up, people at home driving locally. Let’s face it, it’s because people fly and sail around so much that is the cause of the problem. Maybe this is all for the best, if everyone stays close to home.
10
@Vin yes yes... all that "sailing around" is absolutely "the problem"
1
These pro traders and their machine algos have transformed the stock market into more of a casino than it's ever been. Unlike a regular casino though, the house here always cheats those customers unwise enough to be active traders. While they try to hide their trading profits using various financial tricks, the big houses make money literally every day of the trading year. So much for "efficient markets".
29
@Kidcanuck
That's why there are zero commission trades being offered at many brokerages.
@Kidcanuck I'd argue its "unwise" to be an "active trader". The old adage 'its not "timing the market" its time IN the market' is very applicable to our current times
1
"Policymakers have responded by cutting interest rates to prop up economic growth. They are expected to do so again, but the sell-off in part reflects the fact that lower interest rates will not address the immediate impact of the virus if factories close, workers are furloughed and consumers stop spending."
So with interest rates dropping, will the piddly rates on savings drop also? It seems the only effect that the rate drop has is to further hurt seniors and others who rely on savings for their immediate investment. With the drop in rates and stock values, average citizen investors are being hurt. Where is our bailout?
31
@oregon valley girl
Our bailout? The silence is deafening.
2
@oregon valley girl "savings accounts" are always going to trail interest rates. For decades the interest rates on savings accounts have trailed inflation. This particular "writing on the wall" is 100 stories high, and impossible to miss.
@oregon valley girl you should have bailed out when Trump got elected.
1
Global growth weakest since 2009. There’s your reason for the stock market crash.
29
@Rod
Yep - the Smart money was trying to keep the bubble growing until November to help Trump but the Market Fundamentlas Do Not Lie.
WE are headed toward more losses. I predict a DOW under 20,000 on Election Day.
6
@Lefthalfbach
Q: how does "the smart money keep the bubble growing"?
please be specific and cite examples thanks .
The financial concern is based mainly on recognition of real declines in global business activity (supply, demand, trade, manufacturing, distribution, consumption, etc.).
But it is arguably compounded by the COOTWH's (Current Occupant of the White House) lies, which rightly inspire mistrust in any response the government he is nominally adminstering might offer.
34
Do not believe any words spewing from Donald's mouth. It is a cliche by now. Section Brief Report from New England Journal of Medicine published report from Chinese scientists (Vol. 382 No. 8 p. 727-733) described their observations in three patients. These patients with clinical symptoms of pneumonia had common locus in a seafood and wet animal wholesale market in Wuhan. The 49 year woman and 32 year old man survived but the 61 year old man died. It is my opinion which is not of the report suggests that age is prognostic factor. Further, COVID-19 survives better in humans in my opinion.
7
Well, I'm sure glad we got your opinion!
Are Stocks losing because of Corona virus fears? Are stocks gaining yesterday because of a Biden surge? Who in the heck knows and why does WAPO and other news organizations speculate the cause of the volatile market?
The greatest single day losses in the market have happened in the last 3 years during the volatile Trump administration.
This is a fact that should be considered. We need to get rid of the Trump”administration “ and hopefully Mitch McDonal and the rest of the complicit Congress November 3rd 2020.
I would like to Thank Michael Bloomberg for his Current and future financial support in removing the cause of our financial and Economic volatility.
40
@Del
Totally agree and thanks.
2
@Del
Anthropomorphizing the stock market is one of the most annoying aspects of the media.
1
@Del excuse the typos
1
Capitalism, you are profitable and succeed or you loose and fail.
But, the Republicans who spout less government will have financial aid for all of the "people"; sorry, those "people" who are defined in Citizens United.
Are the Farmers still receiving subsidies for soybeans?
Let's help the energy industry, the airlines, the Fortune 100, may the Fortune 500.
Stomp on Bernie as he wanted to help the little guy.
10
Monetary policy is going to do squat as the problem is fear of going out.
Fiscal policy is the only thing that will work and instead of Congress looking to bail out large corporations who are better prepared to weather this criss, they need to be looking at bailing out small businesses as they create most of the jobs in this country.
Given the partisan divide, the denial of reality by today's right and the Trump administration making scientists clear what they say by Pence, I'm not hopeful.
We're well on our way to making this worse than it needs to be. We need a leader who knows how to lead in a crisis he didn't manufacture himself. Too bad we don't have that anymore...
17
@Alord How's about we don't "bail out" ANY businesses.
Since Reagan our Federal Government has sided with corporate interests over interest of citizens, shifting the income tax burden FROM corporations on TO individuals.
This has resulted in ever-increasing disparity of income, drop in union membership, and explosion of personal debt. In short, the rich got richer and the poor got poorer.
And whenever some nut says "government should be run like a business" ask them this:
who are the customers of this business?
and
who are the owners of this business?
then watch them gasp for answers......
2
In the recent past the political and business emphasis has been on energy self sufficiency. Now we are. But we are unable to meet our own needs in medicine and manufacturing. That would have entailed paying decent wages, earning only reasonable profits and pay real prices.
Too much!
36
@Martin Cohen
Reasonable profits? Wow, that's so late 70's-early 80's.
4
@Martin Cohen who defines what "reasonable profits" and "real prices" are?
@LA
Try Adam Smith in "The Wealth of Nations"
To build trust in a people leaders need to give information to people that is true. True means verifiable through multiple observer reports. This includes things such as census counts, water quality reports, mortality rates of discreet populations and so on. In this country since Rove's famous statement about not being from the reality based community through Trump telling people contagious with novel coronavirus this morning that it is safe for them to go to work our Republican leaders have encouraged people to believe whatever they are told, not what can be observed.
And so at the birth of a pandemic no one really knows what to believe. My suggestion is to pay attention to scientists and mathematicians and doctors. Ignore Republicans.
70
@greg
It is not enough to ignore Republicans in an Election year.
Vote for well-qualified Democrats to replace science denying men with their heads in the sand. Republican ignorance and unwillingness to tell voters the truth requires consequences. The USA needs better educated women and men in government service than the Republicans have given us. Elect Democrats at all levels of government in 2020 elections so government will work for you again.
41
@Lynda Amen sister. I meant ignore what they present as facts. By all means build the Blue Wave that swept the country in 2018 into a tsunami.
20
How do we have the money to max out military expenditures, and IC spending to meddle in foreign and domestic elections?
How do we have the money to bail out the airlines that have been bilking us for 10 years?
But we don't have the money to fight the pharma industry and outrageous healthcare bureaucracy?
Democratic party is so feeble.
13
@Fried Shallots
And for the past three years which highly intelligent party has been in charge of the country?
Senate?
White House?
House from 2016-2018?
2
@Fried Shallots
Re: the outrageous profits made by the insurance and pharmaceutical companies: the Democratic Party isn't "feeble;" it's complicit. Biden is the favored DNC candidate because Sanders and Warren would have cut into industry profits. Do the Democrats really care about "the little guy"? Not really.
@Fried Shallots Democratic? Try Republican and its leader the willfully ignorant non- science believer in chief.
1
As much as Trump's critics would like this to be the "beginning of the end" of the market it isn't. If you listen to participants in the market, you'll see they are not panicked. This market is so high it can withstand these gyrations.
Thank goodness for Trump's economy. It will allow us to withstand the effects of this virus. We should be grateful.
3
@AACNY This volatile economy is because of Trump. President Obama brought us out of a deep recession caused by Republicans in the Bush Presidency.
28
I am a trump critic. I do not want this to be the end of the market. I do sense panic in the market. I do not have confidence in or trust what this administration says, as it has lied so many times over 3 years.
25
@AACNY Don't be so sure. Trump squandered many of the economic levers that can be used to correct sudden downturns in order to unnecessarily "stimulate" the already healthy economy he inherited from his predecessor. Also, retirees who use income-generating funds to maintain themselves in retirement. But I'm sure you're right. The very wealthy will be fine, in fact, they can probably turn a profit by buying in low.
15
The markets are panicking because Trump is lying daily about a public health crisis and investors know he cannot be trusted. His administration will have more deaths on their record due to outrageous cuts to NIH, CDC and his pathological hatred for the very infrastructure we rely on in emergencies.
101
I work in the airline business mainly air cargo, started in 1980 so 40 years and counting. We move the tip of the spear of the world economy on our planes, I have always described our business this way, if the world economy has a cold we have the flu if the world economy has the flu we have cancer. I see more than a few bankruptcies over the next 6 months.
I don’t think Americans generally know but there are Chinese airlines that have seen up to a 90 percent reduction in traffic since the lunar new year and are still still flying reduced schedules, their losses have to be staggering. Parked airplanes only generate costs but zero revenue to offset those costs.
In our own case the restrictions on travel from one country to another are going to make it impossible to schedule the pilots to fly the planes. Currently if a pilot lays over in Japan for a day he can’t then fly to China for a minimum of 14 days. Israel just put out a list of countries to long to list. Won’t matter if we have cargo to move or not we won’t be able to crew the jets. This is going to get really really ugly.
76
@Chris Several weeks ago this city of 8 million, not particularly hard hit by the virus, stopped. Shops were closed. Streets were empty. This happened across the entire country. The number two economy of the world was stopped. Supply side of the global economy was stopped. The US stock markets continued up, to record highs. I couldn't figure out why. Didn't they know the scope of this thing? I got out of stocks. I'm too old to hunker down and ride this one out. Now the demand side (US, Europe) of the global economy will soon slow. I fear this is just the beginning.
10
@ChrisK I got out of stock and went all cash when I was talking with my Chinese co workers like you at 61 losing 1/3 of my net worth was not something I wanted to risk. I too could not believe the US stock market and a few co-workers have now said they wished they would have listened to me when i said this is the peak run for the hills.
4
A lot of people are getting rich from the stock market slump.
The traditional name for this is called "shorting the market," which is to say betting on a decline, either on specific stocks or the market as a whole, Treasury bills, etc.
And you can bet that more than a few of those are either members of the Trump administration or people close to them.
And cynical as this may sound, some of them are betting on the continued incompetency of Trump and his "team."
I am sure Mar-a-Lago is teeming with folks who are celebrating, albeit quietly.
Don't get fooled people. Some people do get rich when the country as a whole suffers.
59
@ernieh1 In my non-professional opinion, if you're shorting now, you're just going to incur more losses. This downhill ride isn't stopping any time soon...
3
Such as in a war! Some get rich - many suffer.
@Tom Professional short traders do not stick around for the long haul. They get in early, take their profits, and then lay low for the next opportunity.
It is the non-pros who get the message too late, and go short at the bottom of the market, and then watch it turn up, having to buy back their short sale at a loss.
1
Markets are still attempting to price in the effects of this virus. Tomorrow AM when economic data is released, we will see more of the actual impact. But fear and greed are the two most prevalent emotions in human experience and right now we are being whipsawed by the greed phase.
It appears that the mortality rate of this virus is not commensurate with the amount of fear we are presently witnessing. Healthy, relatively young (under 65) non-obese, non-diabetic, those w/o cancer, or COPD, or other lung disorders fare rather well. And it seems that young children, and adolescents have virtually nothing to fear. And yet, we can throw out all of my rational sentences here, while people are selling purell for $300 for a $2 bottle. (Those people should be put in jail)
13
Why should those selling sanitizers be put in jail when hospitals sell tylenols for $50 day in day out?
4
Is it any wonder that the markets are so volatile? Our leader gives the world absolutely no confidence that his administration can manage even the fundamentals of this crisis. Trump said last night: "If we have thousands or hundreds of thousands of people that get better, just by, you know, sitting around and even going to work, some of them go to work, but they get better.” Yes, Trump actually suggested that sick people can go to work. What will that do to our workplaces, and, at the macro level, our economy? Good god!
64
Interesting article on "Thin Liquidity" in the WSJ today. One reason for the amplified moves. Also margin calls and general heard like behavior. Coronavirus fears are not ranging this much day to day. Do nothing, do what you normally do, re balance a bit.
2
@Daphne
Participants in the market have been anticipating a correction, so these temporary gyrations aren't spooking them. If anything, they're still waiting for the correction.
2
I saw energy and for some reason didn't think about cars. Electricity usage is the one thing that'll actually go up if everyone just stays home.
Not if factories are shut down.
Don’t make assumptions. Correlation does not prove causation. The viruses popping up across the world are similar but not the same. And I suspect the epidemiologists aren’t being allowed access to the information needed to make the proper diagnosis because national security interests are at stake. But until they are. Markets will continue to tumble. And soon no one will know who to trust. And how to go about solving the underlying problem.
5
@Rebel r. Radio
@ Rebel, Let me help you replace your assumptions with facts, please see www.nextstrain.org which clearly shows the genetic epidemiology of novel coronavirus. HCoV-19 by time and geographic location.
1
I thought it was bad when we were having greater than 1% swings daily in the stock indexes. Then it was routine to have 2% and now we're up to almost 4% day to day. In an individual stock not so unusual especially smaller companies but the whole index? And all in lockstep with one another. Welcome to the world of program trading where you can pre set up some parameters and let it run. I guess in some ways it still tracks the emotions of the people setting it up but what a way to lose money! All fun and games until somebody gets a sharp stick in the eye.
6
The big question is; why did stocks even go up? The temporary climb made no sense. None of the underlying fear or uncertainty had been addressed.
28
@Jim
They are not fearful that's why. It's those who don't understand the market who are frightened.
2
@Jim Some thought it was rock bottom pricing. One day of bargain hunting!
@Jim "buy on the dip". Plenty of companies are still making money but the stock prices has gone down, therefore their P/E ratios are lower.
10 years from now these corporations will still be around, still making money. The effects of the virus long forgotten
1
For these who think you are immune to the virus. The very courageous Chinese doctor who passed away is just 34 years old. God bless him such a beautiful soul who dare to speak out! RIP.
Why do I think the US government need to someone like him, especially in the current administration!!
16
Yes, but very likely a heavy smoker for many years. Smoking damages the lungs and suppresses the immune system. Plus, we don’t know what other underlying issues may have contributed to his inability to fight of this virus.
4
@Jason @Joe , Exactly... The 34 y.o. doctor's primary "underlying issue" may just have been with the Chinese government, which has proven to be quite adept at permanently silencing dissenters.
7
The 34-year-old eye doctor had seen a minimum of seven patients with corona virus, likely more. None of the articles on him talk of his having any other conditions that would increase his chance of death. Stress may have been a trigger: He was threatened with arrest if he did not withdraw his belief that a new corona virus existed and that people needed to be cautious. His crime: “making untrue comments” and “severely disturbing social order.”
1
A major Orlando conference set to feature President Trump as a keynote speaker was canceled Thursday because of concern over the coronavirus. Wash Post 03/05/2020.
After the president takes to a bunker watch the market plummet.
27
@Lawrence
I was really hoping he'd go and someone there would kiss him on the lips, then cough.
1
Why did they cancel it? Trump said people can just work as normal! He should set a good example by living his beliefs!
2
Looks like the market didn't buy into the stable genius' latest hunch.
81
The US need an NHS...reading reports here in the states they are stating that it is hard to keep an eye on what is actually happening with Coronavirus.
You need a stystem where the country works as one...in Britain they know exactly how many have been infected and died (one so far as he had underlying health problems) the reason being that the NHS works like an Army...they have the same Health Care stystem right across the UK and all information is shared.
29
@scarlett You are exactly right. I had surgery in England and was amazed by the superiority of care to that in the U.S. in SO MANY ways, including the scrupulous tracking of outcomes.
Perhaps when large numbers of xenophobic, individualism-obsessed Americans die of this or another preventable virus, the survivors will finally see the importance, wisdom and cost-effectiveness of a unified public health system.
26
Why must every front-page story on the novel coronavirus first tell us what's going on in the stock market?
14
@Matthew Walker I'm thinking because a lot of people (slightly under 50% of Americans) are invested in stocks in some form. And they are tumbling - it is news.
6
they're "tumbling" back to where they were a month, 6 months maybe a year ago. and over all that's still way up from when the economy was doing much better than 2008. the media now has a vice grips on our attention and know they can turn everything into breaking news even when it's not so major when you zoom out a little bit.
1
@jeffk
And pension funds.
1
The key focus for America is money, never people.
42
@Andrew Roberts Republicans, mostly. I'm not one, and all my money is in the markets - but I still believe PEOPLE are most important.
7
I would like to mention also another observation.
Since Trump presidency, Stock break records and reach highs.
all this braggadocios attitude , you think that Corporates have giant cushions because their stock has impressive prices at high before corona virus pandemic and than in a week or so they are becoming beggars , panhandlers.
What happened those billions -trillions, nope nothing , no cushion . it is vapor , and evaporated.
No resilience what so ever. ZILCH
12
@SU stocks broke records but DJIA would have to reach 40k+ to beat the growth under Obama.
3
The $8+bn "emergency" aid may remind one of the hysteria following September 2001, which this program is very similar to. Coronavirus is the new terror, and nothing fights terror like Congressmen spending more money, and handing it out to their constituents. As for the virus itself, essentially a flu pathogen--its propagation, like any other bacterial or virus, cannot be stopped by congressional spending. The actual status of those most exposed, and most active in its dissemination, are those least manageable by government fiat. See the very smart opinion in the FT, "If Covid-19 takes hold in the US, it will spread like wildfire," https://www.ft.com/content/78183f86-5c7a-11ea-8033-fa40a0d65a98
2
Spending may not stop the virus, but it will help hospitals treat the virus. We need to take care of all people!
1
How ironic. The thing that might finally get rid of Trump once and for all is a mere 20 nanometers in diameter.
25
@Kristin 20 nanometers is more than twice the thickness of Trump's skin!
3
Covid-19 is a health crisis, not an economic one. While it is true there will be a serious economic impact from this, what is really troubling is the Trump administration is using all possible tools to keep the stock market up, as though that alone were some kind of a popularity poll on Trump and Republican policies. What are they going to do when the real economic fallout if a fully global pandemic (with thousands of cases in dozens of countries, including the US) actually manifests? They'll have burnt all possible responses just not to look bad in the short term. Dealing with the health crisis now and the economic impact later accepts that there will be a recession (as there would be anyway), but desperately attempting not to look bad now and ignoring the fallout longterm will result in a full-blown depression later; one that will last for years, regardless of the outcome of the health crisis.
25
And this is where Republicans want everyone to park their retirement funds.
Make that loud and clear in November, Biden.
Loud and clear.
69
@Fedelia Vidal I thought 3 weeks ago when the market was at record highs it was due to Obama? Right?
Two-faced far lefties...want to take credit when times are good and then run in the other direction when bad news comes up.
Give it a rest...a very long rest.
@MM
That's the other way around, and you know it.
To the righties, when the sun shines, it's because of trump. When it rains, Obama is directly responsible. trump is even falsely blaming Obama for the lack of available corona virus testing
Besides, the strength of the market has not caused liberals to advocate for abolishing Social Security in favor of putting retirement monies into the stock market. As such, your comment misses the mark laughably.
Enough, already. Righties are tiresome. Really.
1
It needs to be noted that Covid-19 is significantly less deadly that SARS (~6%), and likely much less deadly than most current estimates (2-4%).
According to the last update (~15 minutes ago) at the Johns Hopkins Webtracker (https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6), the overall numbers are 3347 deaths / 97841 confirmed cases = 3.4%.
The numbers for Hubei province (with Wuhan) are 2902 / 67466 = 4.3%, likely reflecting how an overwhelmed public health system is unable to devote enough resources on tracking cases with low levels of symptoms.
A better estimate of mortality comes from a well studied cohort, the cruise ship stuck in Yokohama harbor, since testing was performed on most if not all on board: 6 / 706 = 0.85%.
Taking into consideration that the cruise passengers average age was relatively high, and thus at high risk for severe disease, it looks like this virus will end up on the high end of the influenza spectrum, usually quoted at 0.1%, but variable (the 1918 pandemic flu was around 2%).
12
@cbum: Scientists don't predict mortality rates on one small sample of the population like one cruise ship because the numbers are too a small.
23
@Jeff
I'm not predicting anything, just putting the currently available numbers in some context.
The crux of the matter, as you probably know, if how much testing is done on cases with mild symptoms, which as we know, constitute the vast majority of infections.
Almost all reports currently available have a very strong sampling bias in favor of severe cases, under-reporting mild cases, and overestimating the mortality rate.
With the disastrous response by our administration so far, we are essentially flying blind as to what is happening here in real time for lack of any meaningful testing.
Get ready for a sensational increase in cases when testing is finally available more widely, but that should also depress the reported mortality rates quite a bit.
4
@Jeff 700 is NOT a small sample. That is precisely how most of the tests are done. Presidential polls, by the way, use fewer than 1000 samples and get excellent predictions. There is no doubt that there are thousands and tens of thousands untested people with almost no symptoms. I am not saying that one should not worry.
3
This title that the stock tumble of Coronavirus fear is appropriate. I call it unfounded, irrational and unwarranted panic selling caused by the California Governor Mr. Nuisance calling an unjustified state of emergency in his state and then saying it is not about money. Yes it is not about some pocket change money. It is about the federal Gold pot of 8 billion dollars that becomes available on the very same day, the greedy Golden state governor would like to lay his hands on. We all know what the real emergency in the California mega cities is and that is "HOMELESSNESS".
6
@Girish Kotwal Stocks were well overpriced to begin with, and overdue for correction. This was merely the catalyst. I am concerned with a lot more than just the stock market. You should be as well.
12
@Girish Kotwal: I've noticed that irrespective of the subject of NYT articles, you always find a far right slant in order to blame whatever and whoever is not far right. So to you only Republicans have any right to say anything about anything?
18
@Girish Kotwal People who have the capacity to think for themselves call that stock tumble a lack of confidence in the carnival barker fraud artist who isn't demonstrating leadership because he hasn't a clue what leadership is.
How, exactly, do you think anyone will be safe when the virus breaks out among homeless people in the streets?
The inability of the right wing to think beyond their own pocketbook or stock portfolio is appalling.
22
Strange to see that airline stocks are only now starting to crash. There was a very good visualization here in the Times a few weeks ago showing how much air traffic was reduced in China as a result of the coronavirus.
19
Again, remember that the market as measured by the DJIA has risen 23,000 points in the last 11 years. (03/09/09 DJIA close = 6547.05. One old adage is the market takes the stairs up and the elevator down.
20
@James No, not really.
Fear of the coronavirus is going to be less impactful than the unfolding reality of the coronavirus.
Think of where we are now as the first minute of the Super Bowl of disasters with 59 minutes of worsening of the disaster still yet to happen.
Stock market down ten percent? What do you think of down 60 percent or more? Really could happen.
Donald Trump is not going to lie his way out of this catastrophe.
Anyone that has hitched their wagon to Donald Trump will suffer the same fate.
Hunker down, folks.
It's going to get a lot worse before it gets any better.
It will take a year or more for this catastrophe to start to pass.
Many lives will be lost and America will be changed forever.
I am not a praying man, but I will offer my prayers for America and Americans anyway.
Good luck.
89
@S Butler - "Stock market down ten percent? What do you think of down 60 percent or more? Really could happen."
Your post is pure fear-mongering. All emotion, zero facts, zero science.
2
@K. Are you a Trump supporter? I can barely tell.
1
Interesting that the association president immediately goes to a government bailout to help the airlines. But I guess that's what the airlines pay him for - to do the ask they don't want to do themselves.
On the other end of the spectrum, as a small business owner, that was hardly my response. We don't have an association president to run cover nor would the government listen. Instead, we've started managing our own business. What a novel idea. Stay focused on finishing the work we have. Hiring freeze. Take vacations while you can even if they're going to be stay at home. Freeze salary increases and forgo bonuses if necessary. As much as we can do before forced to lay anyone off. But government bailout? Wasn't on the list.
13
I was at Costco and it was pandemonium. It’s so crazy how worked up people are over this. Do you really need cart fulls of bottled water? Is the water going to stop working?
Since the flu season started in October, over 16,000 Americans have died from the flu. 10 people die from Coronavirus and it’s pandemonium.
24
@Kevin
It might be best to quit comparing the coronavirus to the flu, since health experts are not doing that. There's a reason for such a dramatic and very serious response from health care experts in many countries.
53
In fairness, I guess it depends on how your tap water tastes. Mine is pretty soft. So I only buy bottled water if I am out and about or if I need distilled water for special applications. But my sister’s tastes horrid.
8
@Kevin
I was at my Billings Montana Costco late Tuesday morning (3/3/20) and it was somewhat slim of shoppers IMO. No shortages of flour, rice, toilet paper, water. Nobody making a mad dash for them. Employees said over the weekend they exceeded sales projections but nowhere near the bedlam I read about CA or WA. No one was wearing masks or gloves (I was the only one I could see with gloves on) A good cross section of the shoppers appeared to over 60. Being that Montana is 4th largest in land mass but a little over a million in population makes a difference, I guess.
5
BC
AC
Before Coronavirus
After Coronavirus
20
Silver lining: less air travel is good for the planet (not for the airline employees of course).
23
@Eric: Air travel per mile and per person is far better for the planet than the personal automobile.
With daily gyrations of the market, the only people that benefit from this are the stockbrokers.
Does the threat from coronavirus fluctuate daily as the stock market would have us believe?
4
Of course not. The stock market is controlled almost entirely by computers buying and selling in fractions of a second running trading software. That's why any outsider can't make big gains anymore like in the old days.
14
@Monsp The computers mostly react when other people buy and sell. They just add a layer of trade orders. Of nobody buys or sells stocks the computers will remain idle.
4
@Janak
Clearly it sells papers too.
1
This economy is as fragile as Trump's ego. Shares under pressure appear to be in the "service sector", meaning that the growth on these exchanges is in peril because a family won't go to Applebees. Sheez, we used to to make things in America; but, under Trump, market pressure comes from the lost sales of Nacho plates.
27
@James Well we've been in a brainless Trade war for three years as well and really have nothing to show for except some shut down factories trillions in increased consumer costs.
2
Real economic damage resulting from real world-wide health damage is starting to occur with the airlines and the travel industry at the forefront of the damage. But, the focus must be on providing appropriate health information, materials, and care rather than talking about bailouts. This is a health crisis first, and an economic crisis second. Avoiding cramped, highly-congested spaces like airplanes, cruise ships, theaters, auditoriums and public spaces is recommended, especially if travel and attendance is discretionary. All attempts to bail out big corporations who yell "Too big to fail!" will be all too reminiscent of 2008 when the needs of the public were also neglected. The next two months will require a focus on health care and human well-being something sorely lacking in the Trump administration.
40
Seems that lately the stock market has been modeling the ultimately fatal movements that brought down two Boeing 737 Maxes.
Basically up, down, up down.... Crash!
26
Why isn't the Trump Administration's obvious incompetence in handling this crisis the main story? So much could have been done by now. And so much remains to be done, but there's no plan.
162
@Bill
Trump and Pence need to be front and center every day to assure the public and let them know what is being done.
Instead, they are out on the campaign trail.
Priorities.
33
@Bill come on now. There is a plan to take all reports and filter them through Pence to ensure there is a positive message. Thoughts and Prayers everybody.
8
@Bill There's no plan and there never was.
5
This is what the travel industry has done for the world. Anyone who travels right now or has traveled in the last month is a potential carrier of the virus. Our connected world and people with bucket lists to complete before they leave this world might just have moved their departure date up. If you are sick or get sick, the best place to be is at home. If things continue to get worse, the snowball effect to the market pulling back might just get us a responsible person elected as president.
12
@Bella: Just what are you blaming on the Airline industry? Or is it just that you hate all businesses?
Watch what happens to the market when the White House, Senate,House, and other federal buildings are closed to tours.
Those buildings are full of septuagenarians, and to have failed to do so yet is insane.
26
@Lawrence Best to keep those tours going. Coronavirus may be the only way to get rid of some of those legislators.
17
@Andrew too funny, "Everybody ensure you lick the doorknobs on the way out".
1
Trump, who probably believes that coronavirus is linked to flying too close to the sun, is busy trying to figure out a way to blame the market's severe gyrations on President Obama. He'll find a way.
79
@H. Clark , President Trump has blamed President Obama. Check yesterday's news.
5
@H. Clark He already has found a way to blame it on Obama.
3
All you folks who think the Coronavirus is a hoax should be buying shares today. Best of luck to you.
33
It is not so much the CV that is dinking the market but the incoherent response from the administration. Powell announes a 1/2 percent drop in the fed rate and the market immediately climbs 280 points. Within hours. Trump is speaking about the CV response with lies, half truths and outright fantasies, and it immediately tanks 1200 points. Next, Biden wins the nomination and the market climbs some 1200 points. The Trump the next day announces more tomfoolery about the CV and it drops a 1000 points. Any pattern here?
109
@pkelly
Yes. A lack of confidence in this president* and his administration.
3
As others have said, at least the reduction of carbon and gadgets is a plus! We SHOULD be flying less! Buying less! Take care of and love your own corner of the planet, your neighbors, your life!
The overuse of masks will be yet another stream of pollution. Science, people!
22
I cannot believe only yesterday investors were buying up the market! I mean are they serious? just look at the cascading cases popping up the length and breath of the nation. One only has to look at South Korea, Japan Italy, Hong Kong, Australia to see what happens, less travel, less spending, isolation and disruption.
15
@Dac Hang in there Chicken LIttle.
Again I know this is mean, but less CO2, and less stuff in landfills bc big events are cancelled. Mother Earth get a break in this.
24
@Calleen Mayer
Listen Mother Earth will be fine...its us humans that we need to save ourselves from ourselves.
12
What will be the response when it hits the migrants stuck in the border area of Mexico? Venezuela? The refugees in and fleeing Syria to the EU?
8
Ever notice how in disaster movies the walls never work?
2
@Just Me: Something to ponder. Trump and the Republican Party refuses to make the Federal E-Verify Program mandatory or to enact punishments for the employers who hire illegals. Follow the money. If you want the illegals to leave, take away their ability to get jobs! Of course that would mean the the Republican owners will have to pay higher wages and provide better benefits to get Americans to take those jobs.
3
@Lawrence "So Sad, Too Bad."
No worries. Donald (Houdini) Trump says the coronavirus will just disappear.
66
@Joe Berger A miracle! You're welcome! Do I get a Nobel Peace Prize now, huh?? Whaddaya!
1
Only a fool would think the inadequate ability to test for the coronavirus is an accident. The current administration wants to keep the public in the dark to help the stock market and Trump's reelection.
114
@Somewhere Do you really think they'd be able to execute this grand plan? The stock market is down over 10% so it doesn't seem to be working very well.
Further, inadequate testing will lead to large numbers of new infections and more deaths. These won't go unnoticed.
2
@Somewhere
This is the sort of plan Trump would devise. Of course the low testing may have helped for a week or 12--but the election is over 6 months away. Trump and his crew have ensured this will still be a big deal in November -- and a far bigger deal than it might have been with an aggressive campaign to stop it.
1
“It’s nature’s way of telling you something’s wrong’
-Spirit, 1971
22
@William
One of the Twelve Dreams of Dr. Sardonicus.
8
This is not a good sign, expectation for this problem is not been managed well. This is not an issue to be solved with PR stunt. The urgency to find a vaccine is the only thing that would tame the crazy bull market slump into a spiral disaster.
9
@Emmanuel In a 12/18 months period we may be able to deploy a vaccination program...but do not believe Trump when he says in about "a couple of months"!Trump is lying to the people, as usual...
8
Praise G-d for the New York Stock Exchange: the one and only American institution that accurately mirrors the hopes and beliefs of the American people and will finally and decisively rid us of Trump in November.
41
@A. Stanton Unless it is deemed too dangerous for citizens to be in public and voting is cancelled.
4
@Andrew
mail-in ballots
1
Feeling human again?
2
Praise G-d for the New York Stock Exchange: the one and only American institution that accurately mirrors the hopes and beliefs of the American people that will finally and decisively rid us of Trump in November.
6
Not easy, having a dangerous clown in the White House, while a virus with up to 3 percent mortality creeps across the land. If only 100 million Americans catch the virus, which seems like a low estimate for the year(s) ahead, that will mean 3 million deaths in America. And what do we get from the White House? First, call it a hoax from the Democrats. Failing that, blame it on Obama.
162
@Mike C.
Relax. Most of the COVID-19 deaths will occur to Trump supporters, who believe what this clown says. Darwinism at its finest!
15
@Joe Miksis , that's just not so. People get it from other people of all kinds in all kinds of places. Your glee at the idea of people dying, in any case, is unseemly, the kind of thing Trump supporters might well engage in as they argue for cutting help for the sick and dying. Stop it.
7
@jb While I agree with your disgust at glee in other's innocent deaths--this virus is far harder on the elderly, and smokers. Both of these groups skew toward Trump.
A true breakdown of our interconnected society may lead to far more deaths than from the virus alone. Those deaths will skew toward Democrats and non-voters.
Trump's incompetent crisis management will likely lead to far more damage and deaths than COVID-19.
"Coronavirus death rate is 3.4%, World Health Organization says, Trump says 'hunch' tells him that's wrong"
"WASHINGTON – The World Health Organization reported this week that the death rate for the coronavirus increased to 3.4% and is more lethal than the flu, which kills tens of thousands of Americans each year. But President Donald Trump, citing only a "hunch," called the number provided by world health leaders "false." "
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/citing-hunch-trump-disputes-virus-death-rate/ar-BB10MMRK?ocid=msedgdhp
During a worldwide pandemic, it is alarming to have such a profoundly ignorant buffoon as Donald J. Trump and his mob of sycophants leading the USA.
294
@Joe Miksis Did you catch the video of the stable genius telling pharma execs they could use a "solid" flu vaccine to stop coronavirus. And it was released by the White House!
https://www.indy100.com/article/coronavirus-trump-vaccine-flu-us-symptoms-9372566
4
@Joe Miksis ... "Buffoon" is just too kind of a word. How about "menace to humanity."
7
The headline refers to the fall-off of up to $113 billion as a “loss.” In actuality, it’s a drop in REVENUE. A “loss” is a drop in PROFIT. There’s a world of difference between the. This is elementary, and editors should not have allowed it.
11
The Stable Genius Trump has a plan for that, cut Social Security.
https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/486110-dont-shortchange-social-security-for-short-term-economic-stimulus
34
COVID-19: Check the numbers people. The numbers ring of truth. It is now world wide just short of 100k confirmed people infected (That's 100k of an exposure base of maybe 500mill to 2 billion people) and we have just over 3k deaths. That's just above 3% mortality rate and quite normal for any flu. Over 56k have already recovered. Stay in the know. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
Someone is earning big bucks on the big short. Don't let them cause the next recession by sucking out needed capital of Americas companies and Americans savings.
1
@StayingCool Yes, very cool, but 500M to 2B people have not yet been exposed, so there's a tiny gap in your logic. Also recovery numbers are no longer being tracked so there are no accurate numbers for that. But please go ahead and buy into the crashing market. You will help stabilize the market and probably you'll do fine. Many thanks for taking one for the team.
10
@StayingCool
We shouldn’t overreact or panic. We should use common sense measures like frequent hand washing and staying home if sick. We may not know the true mortality rate yet since there may be a large number of undiagnosed mild cases; in other words, the denominator might be much larger than current estimates.
Having said that, 3.4% (as is being reported by the World Health Organization) is not a normal morbidity rate for the flu. Most strains are around 0.1%. 3.4% would be an even higher fatality rate than the 1918 Spanish Flu pandemic.
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/12/1/05-0979_article
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/index.html
8
@StayingCool
Tell that to the industries affected. Most people are sitting tight with their stocks but the fact that there are possibly hundreds of people roaming around the US spreading the disease rightfully concerns us.
The T administration has botched this royally - there's a truth you can take to the bank.
5
Is there any reason at all for the picture of a couple doofi on the trading floor or a picture of airplanes on a tarmac? I know Trump needs pictures, but NYT readers? Really?
9
How ironic- Trump thinks he is able to con the public with utterly false’hunches’ that minimize the pandemic. In fact, his failure to be smart & competent is freaking markets, corporations and even his base.
You cannot fool Mother Nature...you can’t con covid-19.
40
Meanwhile you have a "President" who calls it a Democrat hoax,calls it a bad cold, makes up stories about vaccines, and tells sick people to go to work.
129
@Just Me
that we know of so far
3
Those of in/near retirement not flush with home equity and multi million dollar 401K/IRA accounts are looking increasingly vulnerable to not being able to sustain themselves through their latter years. Dividend returns are not guaranteed, fixed income returns are falling from already mediocre returns. Now or soon Certificates of Deposit Treasuries/bonds/money market funds with already low returns are headed lower and will have negative return when inflation is factored in. Too many seniors who put off retirement and cannot any longer are vulnerable. Sequence of returns appears it will hit current crop of retirees especially hard.
19
@bt365
Many of the people you describe are Trump supporters. This could be a good thing for America.
@Joe Miksis
Hi Joe - my husband and I retired 6 months ago. We are never-Trumpers and lifelong Dems. It pains me to read that as retired individual, I may have to rely on our children to see us through or have to sell our home in a down market.
7
@Joe Miksis , Joe, you're just absolutely off on this. It's so wrong that I think maybe a Trump supporter would write it to make Trump's adversaries look like horrid people. At least I hope that's what it is. I still have a few illusions about our "side" being better than theirs.
4
The air lines and oil companies are looking to the government for “stimulus relief” in response to their losses due to the Coronavirus.Why can’t the government stress relief to those who are ill and have to miss work or those who don’t have health insurance and will therefore not go to the doctor when they feel ill.If the patients and potential patients were given relief there would be less panic and people would be more willing to travel and spend.That would stem some of the losses to business.The fact that the government has not ramped up testing because they don’t have enough test kits sounds phony to me.If the government wanted to test all the ill they could-other governments have.I suspect that they don”t want to know the actual number of people who are infected!
9
@JANET MICHAEL : Relief for those who have to miss work due to illness, quarantine, or kids unable to attend school absolutely MUST include workers in the gig economy -- not just those who work under W2s. Otherwise, why should our tax dollars go to support only those who are paid on W2s rather than 1099s?
8
What happened to the Federal Reserve Coronavirus vaccine ?!
I thought it was going to be an 'incredible, tremendous' cure-all to the pandemic ?
Could Doctor Trump and Pastor Pence possibly have been wrong ?
Oh Lordy !
96
@Socrates Not the Very Stable Genius. He is never wrong.
10
The big question: is all this stock market arrhythmia the prelude to a major financial heart attack?
11
Not so fast. The Fed defibrillator and the Trump Admin mouth-to-mouth is here to save the day as a warped First Responder. Obama, Geitner, Paulson and Bernanke rescue a la 2009, this is not.
6
@DAC
The current market arrhythmia is following the same form as the kind of uncontrollable lurching up and down that crashed two Boeing 737s, you know the kinds of things that happen in any system that's gone chaotic.
2
Socialism for corporations, free market capitalism for workers.
74
Day-by-day the projected losses keep escalating and the failure to spend now on a coordinated global response will undoubtedly cost trillions in the near future. Not to mention who knows how many lives?
Penny-wise and pound foolish. The overabundance of caution has unfortunately been on the side of responding prudently to the threat. Failing to act, however, is still an... act. Pretending otherwise is obfuscation.
You would have thought that the Spanish Flu, HIV, and Ebola would be etched on peoples' minds. Complacency, however, has had the upper hand.
The problem with contagions is that halfway measures may leave the impression that "at least something is being done" but that's like saying leaping off of a ten-story building is twice as safe as jumping off of a 20 story building. Not really. Halfway is, in actual fact, mathematically far less than half of what a responsible solution would have yielded. You can't measure black and white (either the virus spreads or it doesn't) in shades of gray.
Those in a position to allocate the money and other resources: 1) have made inadequate advance preparations, and 2) hesitated when confronted by an actual crisis. Both are proving fatal.
You don't fight fire with the garden hose. You call in the Fire Dept. and extinguish the blaze forthwith.
Is this a proverbial Act of God? Hardly. Don't blame God for the foolishness, greed, and timidity of those in a position to do something - government officialdom from Wuhan to Washington.
8
If elected, I would immediately pass an executive order that all elected representatives without exception, are required to have their finances forensically examined now and in the future, prior to taking office and that the findings be made public without exception.
If that law alone, started today, my guess is we'd lose well over half of government at City, County, State and Federal levels.
I'd also order that the forensic examiners also be randomly examined to make sure they stay clean and honest with their findings.
End greed and corruption and begin representation government again. A few simple decrees and laws and the swamp is drained.
"So let it be written, so let it be done."
Pharaoh Rameses (Yul Brenner)
The Ten Commandments, 1956
11
@HoodooVoodooBlood
He was Yul Brynner (born Yuliy Borisovich Briner).
2
@Joe Miksis Thanks Joe,
Sorry for the spelling error of Mr Brynner's name.
Of course, bailout those at the top because those at the bottom don’t need a bailout.
“Socialism at the top; rugged individualism for those at the bottom”.
Thank you Dr. King.
15
To take an ancillary positive view of a potentially horrendous situation with supply chains seriously interrupted:
Perhaps people will figure out that they don't actually need a lot of the STUFF they feel they can't possibly live without, such as ahi steaks, the latest gadget, or a new car.
Perhaps people will figure out that the globalized economic model that brings them all their can't-do-without STUFF, also means they are dependent on foreign sources for stuff they actually do need, such as many medicines and medical supplies, a supply chain out of our control.
Perhaps people will figure out that if they lessened their consumption of all the latest STUFF, it would do much to lessen anthropogenic global warming, more than the feel-good banning of plastic straws for instance. ["Dramatic fall in China pollution levels ‘partly related’ to coronavirus"; https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/mar/01/dramatic-fall-in-china-pollution-levels-partly-related-to-coronavirus]
Perhaps I'm just doing you-know-what into the wind.
No, make that likely.
3
All stores out of Purell. No Purell available from Amazon Prime. the panic is upon us.
5
@Bill Wilkerson Get thee to a store and buy some aloe vera and denatured alcohol and make your own; Google has the recipe.
4
purell ain't going to save any of us at this point Bill.
1
Gee, I guess Trump's whining on Fox/"Hannity" about the virus crisis being exaggerated by Democrats to weaken him didn't reassure the stock market at all. What a surprise that the man thinks only of himself.
19
Long term investor here...Going to "stay the course....."
I'm lucky...I have a pension and a large nest egg, because, for fifty years I got up and went to work. I earned my way. I NEVER ONCE lost a minute of sleep worrying about if there were or are millionaires, billionaires, etc out there. There are. There were. We can't all be one.
Today, everyone is so worried about someone else's money. Make your own way...there seem to be many jobs, and if you don't like any of them,with money cheaper than dirt, start a business. Buy a rental and parlay it. Buy a dump truck and haul dirt to new homesites ( need a CDL though....get one instead of worrying if there is some guy out there will millions...)
There will be more large swings I predict:
They find a therapeutic does? Market up 1000.
One of the candidates has corona? Down 1500 points.
President ( ours or one of our allies) gets corona? Down 3000 points.
Vaccine? Drop off in cases? UP 2000 points.
Political leader dies of coronavirus? Donw 5000 points.
Terrorist attack in the USA while were hand wringing? Down 3000 points.
Earthquake? Airliner crash in the US? Mass shooting god forbid of any leaders or candidates? Down 10,000 points.
Get a chart of the DOW last 100 years and look at it. Calm down.
Wash your hands. Be sensible and be kind to others. YES that can help and tho corny, it'll help YOU feel better too.
15
@Ignatz Agreed, perfect example of A Random Walk.
1
It feels like someone or something pumping and dumping stocks. Who is most profitable from selling short right now?? Where is the financial reporting on that SEC? CNBC?
9
I’m guessing if we had an educated, honest, intelligent person in the WH the market would be a whole lot less volatile.
28
@Psst
But our President is a supposedly educated person, a graduate of the University of Pennsylvania business school (Ivy League). I have a good idea about how he got in. But how did he graduate? Does a surrogate take the exams and write the papers? Trump has trouble reading.
Look at the state of China's economy right now. Many, many business and factories are still shut a month after the initial outbreak. Although new transmissions seem to be slowing in those initial areas, the situation they've faced is what we'll facing here in the USA over the coming weeks.
There's no reason to think we'll handle it any better If anything, it'll be harder. Our government can't bulldoze our highways to cutoff access to outbreak cities and we can't go door to door forcing folks to hospitals (not that we have the needed number of hospital beds anyway).
Investors see the writing on the wall: we're looking at a significant slowdown very soon.
22
@John You are correct I'm afraid.
My associates and I are closing out our business by the end of this month and the timing is just right. We are one of the lucky ones I think. Even before now, the trade wars and other factors of stupidity were killing our customer flow.
It's time to move on.
8
Stock brokers just aren't listening. Everyone has said the numbers of people with coronavirus will increase. Yet when it does they panic. Why are we letting these people manipulate our wealth? One day up one day down.
2
Brokers don’t affect prices. They are the tools of the buyers and the sellers decisions given to them. They simply execute the orders placed. Beyond that, I would submit most stock trading is done by machines nowadays, be it online traders or automatic algorithmic machine orders aka program trading that is a preset array of buys and sells based on predetermined market criteria. The old fashioned retail stock brokers calling his clients to advise to buy and sell is a thing of the past.
8
Market down big today. I'm sure that Trump will coerce the Fed to lower rates by another .5%. Could be a weekly thing
6
@David Bowers
At least for four weeks . . . then we start going negative.
3
One talking point Trump lost this week. When Biden is perceived as a front runner, the stock market performs better. So Trump cannot still play the Bernie market drop card he played the week before after NH and Nevada. Biden will play the Obama economy card.
45
I studied finance and economics to avoid being inundated by drama in my daily life.
Then came the financial media.
11
I would add that we have not yet heard any reports on COVID 19 infections from the Philippines or Indonesia. Two populous countries with minimal health care infrastructure and deep economic ties to the U.S. and frequent travel to and from infected countries.
In addition birth those countries have governments that control the flow of information.
All in all, a recipe for two more significant vectors to the world economic environment.
13
The Philippines was the country to report a death outside of China. And they report only one existing case...
3
On the bright side, emissions are way down and companies around the world are rethinking their work from home policies, which would also greatly reduce emissions among many other benefits. I look forward to a day when the 50% of the country who're now against it, will also see that maybe universal healthcare would be a help in this situation. It'd certainly be a lot cheaper than the trillions and trillions this coronavirus is costing us.
46
The volatility is driven by the fact that two groups of traders/investors are 1. buying on the dip and 2. Trying to exit a market that is too scary.
Both behaviors are amplified by computational trading that takes into account a relatively few simple informational cues despite the swagger of the Wall St. bros who like to tell us that this is all very sophisticated.
These algorithms accelerate stock prices as quickly into disaster as they move them towards positive numbers.
The uncertainty in the markets also reflect the opinion of the markets as to the incompetence of the Trump administration in their handling of the COVID 19 outbreak and the botching of the trade negotiations and tariffs in general.
Ironically, the "Biden Bump" is bad news for Trump as it meant that Sanders was seen as a viable candidate to beat Trump and that his effective sidelining meant that the market would be spared the regulatory restraint they dreaded.
5
Allowing anyone who can to work from home and banning non-essential travel seem like wise actions, not only to deal with corona virus but also to deal with climate change.
With any luck, this will become the new normal.
38
@Rose
Oh good, we can outlaw all non-essential travel. This virus is as good an excuse as any. Everyone’s carbon footprint would be reduced if they were under house arrest.
What’s my motivation to, I dunno, accomplish anything at all?
2
@Robert : No motivation to accomplish anything if you can't fly on vacation? Is that what you live for? If so, I feel bad for you.
I work to support my family, to give my child a better life than I had. I work so I can own a house a love, in a community I adore (no longer in Seattle, not sure how to change display town). I work so I can do things I love, like hiking, biking, gardening, watching films, reading books.
I work so I can donate to the church community that I am actively involved in. I work so that some day I can retire and do more volunteer work in my community.
I work so that I can eat good food -- and I work hard at what I do so I can build my skills, earn more money, work a little less, and spend more time with my husband, kid, and elderly parents.
I hope that there is more to life than accomplishing something so I can fly to Europe or Hawaii or wherever to vacation or make a work presentation.
I'm happy I've found a way to work from home so I don't have to travel. I wish more companies allowed their employees to do the same.
8
@Rose
You misunderstand my point.
Any of the above items that involve you leaving your house, involve travel that someone might call non-essential.
If they can outlaw my trip to Florida, they can outlaw your trip to the hardware store. I don’t want either of those things to happen.
2
By and large, people are still working and getting paid, just not spending the income on "things" like travel (that 113B in lost revenue ends up in the pockets of people for instance). Also, not commuting saves a huge pile of time, a valuable commodity in and of itself. I suspect that by the time coronavirus dies out, if you add all the claimed losses, the sum would rival the GPP (gross planetary product).
For the most part, the greedy short termist negativity of Wall Street hides the fact that driving the lemmings over a cliff is an opportunity to gain wealth... except for the lemmings that become fish food and end up living out their elder years solely on the meager sustenance of social security.
3
"So if, you know, we have thousands or hundreds of thousands of people that get better, just by, you know, sitting around and even going to work." - Trump on Hannity Interview
With comments like this coming from Trump, the markets are quite rightly beginning to question both Trump's leadership and his basic intelligence. They don't like the answers they come up with and the implications of those answers on the economy. This is being priced into the markets.
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@Bruce1253
It's called GIBBERISH.
THe language of Donald Trump.
25
@Bruce1253 I rather doubt that they are "beginning" to question trump's leadership or intelligence! These deficiencies are obvious to any even reasonably intelligent person who is paying even slight attention these days.
8
@aoxomoxoa
I would like to agree with you, but for some time Wall Street has been enjoying the fruits of Trump's economy. Prior to the Coronavirus debacle they would have been happy with a Trump 2nd term. Now it has come to them that there may be a down side to supporting someone who has the attention span and intelligence of a gnat.
22
In keeping with trump’s practice of laying claim to only superlative accomplishments, he can now lay claim to overseeing the hugest one-day point drop in the history of the Dow.
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@Alex
Maybe it was a bigly drop too
4
On the brighter side, international vacations could be cheaper this summer. I'd say book those flight tickets and hotel rooms NOW !! Lot of folks on the older side of age must be cancelling their plans ..
7
@Lord Varys
that's not funny...
6
@Matt Sorry, My comments weren't meant to be sarcastic or funny, may be poor choice of words. Apologies !!
1
As alarming as this virus outbreak is, a Silver Lining, if there is one, is less Fossil Fuels are getting burned and there are less flights. It might help us imagine a future where these decreases in Fossil-fueled travel are mandatory, or the norm. The current level of air travel is unsustainable and is a prime driver of the Climate Crisis. People should be flying alot less as it is if we want any hope of avoiding Climate Catastrophe.
45
The airline’s top leadership makes millions while their companies- esp. Boeing—tank. Now we the people are supposed to bail them out? Only if it comes with strict limitations on corporate pay and hourly worker positions on the board. And only after the corporate leaders themselves have pledged their own cash to help their companies.
I constantly am told that all work is valued and that people should feel lucky to have a job. Same goes for corporate leadership.
102
Business - unless you're in the business of making hand sanitisers or face masks - depends vitally on public confidence. When you have a President who is in denial instead of moving forward with clear and transparent mitigation measures, business confidence will slump radically as reality starts to seep in. Calling the WHO's mortality estimates into question on Fox News because of a Presidential "hunch" doesn't help. These figures are based on the Chinese experience. What the President overlooks is that the vast majority of cases have been in Wuhan and at one stage officials there were instructed to go door to door to assess who might be infected. There has been little chance of evading detection and thus skewing the data and China does not benefit from skewing data upwards. My "hunch" is that the WHO's estimate is based on sound analysis. Certainly high rates of mortality are being seen in South Korea, Italy and Iran - the countries at the forefront of outbreaks outside China. That does not bode well for business or the community in other countries. Places like Singapore and Hong Kong have done relatively well so far in containing the disease but that is because they have been very proactive and have kept their public extremely well informed, unlike many other countries. The Straits Times web page, Coronavirus cases in Singapore: What we know so far, updated daily, is a model of highly informative transparency that facilitates business forward planning.
12
And Trump goes on saying its a hoax. That the story is being made more ominous seeming because of political bias. That it is Obama's fault. The WHO is lying about the death rate of the Coronavirus. The Biden bounce is now a memory. Uncertainty about the coronavirus, leading to market volatility and terrible political leadership from Trump make for a serious situation on Wall Street and the economy.
26
@c harris
And don't forget, every day at about 5PM, Pastor Pence comes out and, after orally praising Trump, says:
"There are now 12 known cases in the USA"...when EVERY OTHER OUTLET reports tens or hundreds, and it will soon be thousands.
9
I don’t understand why these whining companies don’t save for a rainy day theme. Most people are called upon to save for emergencies. They make billions and pay low to nothing in taxes. Why do we have to give them socialism/welfare in bailouts? Why can’t they prepare and save for the volatile times?
432
@Texdeb
At this point they all know the Fed will come bailing them out again again and again...this is called MORAL HAZARD. In good times, they keep the profits and bad times taxpayers eat the bills. ITS just wrong
38
@Texdeb They don't save for rainy days because our financial system promotes short term business thinking. When forced to pick between making a short term investment or performing a stock buy-back vs. putting money away for dangers - we all know what a business is going to pick. We have an irrational system that promotes inefficient and poor decision making.
33
@Texdeb: Shouldn't these companies be pulling themselves up by their Republican bootstraps?
56
Boeing and Corona virus Crisis will may be the death sentence for many airlines.
Let see who will survive from this.
This two incidents are really breaking neck type of events.
I believe there should be some remedy from Government, Folks I understand your reaction, they always come for our tax payers money, but do not forget these are serious job creating sectors.
3
@SU Only if, as a condition of the bailout, the company CEO, CFO, etc. have to work for a certain number of years at the median income for the company's home state, with no bonuses or other goodies.
8
@SU Why should we try to help Americans by bailing out the rich. Last time, they kept 95% of the bailout. Why don't we just bail out the Americans in need.
The stock market is a terrible indicator of how well Americans are actually doing. Bailing out Boeing might help their shareholders, but will not help anyone who gets fired when the company lays off the workers who they have already had trouble finding work for. Maybe we should actually invest in programs that actually help the employees.
5
The coronoavirus scare is another "9-11" event for airlines. And as was the case with 9-11, eventually airlines will recover.
13
I think it’s another 911 for the world
6
@Jay Orchard Yes as a whole, but look for another round of mergers, even if there’s a direct government bailout.
"Oil producers are looking for a large cut to production as demand softens." - In other words, we now have a glut of oil so we need to cut production to keep the price artificially elevated.
Maybe if the captured the vast volumes of methane lost from flairs and leaks they could "make ends meet".
24
Corporations making case again for bailout from taxpayers. Watch out folks.
301
@Ugly and Fat Git , yes. That's exactly what's coming, make no mistake. If it hits before the election, and Trump gives it to them, we may have a democratic president afterward. But that does assume the election process is actually functioning.
3
Corporate Socialism at its finest. Using pooled taxpayer money for their “common survival.” Funny how voters don’t see this...
2
And Warren is out of the race. :/
Southwestern Airlines financial woes aren't good news for Boeing. SWA has been the uber cheerleader for the 737 Max - biggest orders, greatest enthusiasm for getting it flying.
Not so much, now...
9
Don’t you love how analysts say the airlines will need help? From who? You guessed it! From us, the taxpayer. Where is our relief? It’s ‘save the corporations’ but ‘forget everyone else’ all over again (the 2007 financial crisis). I’m tired of bailing out companies who care nothing about me. Aren’t you?
751
@ mike, amazing isn’t it that the horror of socialism is not only ok but absolutely necessary for corporations but if it’s for society, the common person it’s derided and demonized as one of the Four Horsemen and destroyer of America and freedom and Liberty ...oh my god, the horror.
58
@Mike L
I'm OK with helping the airlines--as long as they provide 5 roundtrip tickets to anywhere in the US for free to every human taxpayer (Based on Individual and joint 2019 tax returns: 10 for joint + another 5 for dependents).
After all, the tourism business will be very hard hit. Making flight irresistible would be a huge benefit for tourists. (Writing this while on vacation on Maui.)
11
@Mike L
Look, we need functioning transportation system in this country. However, I would like the condition for bailout to be: "No layoffs for lower tier employees and no bonuses for executives. Period".
19
I hope someone is tracking the reduction in humanity's carbon footprint during this outbreak.
I have always said that the way to unite the world is to find a common enemy. Viruses fit the bill.
Imagine if we, humanity, were able to significantly reduce military spending and increase healthcare spending, fund clean energy and infrastructure projects, create water purification and water reclamation systems.
The bottom line is we should spend our wealth on things that improve the human existence.
Does having a new and improved nuclear warhead do anything to improve life on earth? Peace.
217
@Tom Walker Agree 100%
10
@Tom Walker
Thank you for articulating so well what I have been feeling all along about this, and possibly, other looming crises.
2
@Tom Walker - somebody will definitely be tracking the reduction in humanity's carbon footprint - it will be interesting to see the result.
2
Stock market: erratic, emotional, irrational, timid, easily distracted, myopic.
Just the kind of institution I'd want to check to see how we're doing.
48
Soon the airline industry, oil industry and others will be lining up to ask for relief from the Federal Government. Might we call this "Socialism for the Rich?"
799
@Grandpa Bob And savage capitalism for those at the bottom.
101
@Grandpa Bob
Yep. And if I, making $18/hr, with only paid time off—which will disappear quick—no savings, will be financially wiped out, what about the tens of millions who make minimum? The tens of millions who are in my situation?
I also have no family to speak of.
If you try to put us out on the street because we can't pay rent, there will be blood.
Some hard times ahead, and perhaps a cultural reckoning, a humbling afoot.
171
Yup Socialism is alive and well in US!
22
I’m so tired of these pronouncements from so-called Wall Street analysts. What they say one day is often disproved the next. The stock market is not about “investment”, but speculation. It’s a giant Ponzi scheme/casino.
190
@Eugene
A quibble. It's NOT Wall Street analysts, (generally) playing these "Buy! Sell!" games. The vast majority of the actual analysts writing reports will lay out the pros and cons of a situation, and not change with the wind every 5 minutes.
It's the "pundits" I think you object to, from Cramer at the worst to a semi-rational TV commentator... the people who get paid by views and clicks.
Just look at the last two days. Yesterday up 1,000 and "Oh, that's nice, whatever".... today we give it back and apparently "We're all gonna DIE!"
3
As much as the airlines charge for their overcrowded seats I don't have much sympathy for them but sorry for their workers
326
Some countries have zero community transmission (so far). Leadership matters.
The 'Fruit Loops' sugar high is stale; maybe it's time for some good, olde-fashioned Vermont oatmeal.
36
"The stock market sell-off is fake news. The fake media says it is a 10+% downturn. But I think it is far less than 1%. That's just my hunch."
Donald Trump
269
@Mtkailas
Talk about fake news. . . every news outlet reports the exact same thing, but that one person who speaks with such ignorance defies those reports? Think about that. . . If the news outlets report good news for Trump, he touts it loudly and boldly. It is only when it is something he doesn't want to hear that he decries it as "fake news". After 3.5 years of this craziness, how can I still be amazed at the audacity and ignorance of our President and his ability to con our populace?
41
Donald sought to reassure people today, saying don't worry, there are plenty of unreported cases of this so-called virus out in the community, and many of these people are still going to work.
36
@Mtkailas did the market go up 1,000 points today? Oh, because Chuck Schumer took a jab at the SC, the market went down 1,000. Dems are to blame for the last 2 weeks...
2
They'll need to change those facts, Trump won't like it.
106
@Tom J - sounds like it's sharpie time.
6
Just as the Industrial Revolution changed the way man did business………
THIS
Coronavirus revolution will and is today changing the way we see and do business………
Globalization is great - until it isn't……..
Like it or not,
We have entered the isn't stage……...
11
Globalization is great and it is here to stay. Is.
15
@RB
Hang on a minute. How does COVID-19 prompt this comparison of globalization to the industrial revolution: Infections? Human mobility? Viruses? COVID-19 is genetically new but infections, mobility and viruses the lot were part of the human condition since before the industrial revolution.
13
Omigosh, here we go again?
Let's take our tax money to bail out businesses hurt by the virus. It might be expensive, but we can always cut back Medicare, Medicaid, and other health programs.
Remember, America..... Corporations are people, too!
819
I’ll consider feeling sorry for airlines when they give me my arm and leg room back and stop charging for checked bags....
Maybe not even then.
184
@ImagineMoments corporations are the “deep state.” And the lobbyists will keep is that way.
42
And people are corporations too.
15
Fewer people traveling around for no real good reason.
I guess this is a silver lining to it all.
135
@Will. Travel is the best education in life, there are many, many good reasons to travel.
Don't tell me what you know; tell me where you have been.
10
@Will. ~
Oh, so you ARE like Trump, who claims unto himself he can judge what is best for he rest of the world?
1
@Will.
What reason do you want??
Personal Enrichment / learning and do you know what tourism is for the world economy.
Many - not rich will be affected.
Planet Earth is fighting back. NO2 and Carbon emissions from China are down significantly. Less travel will make 2020 the first year for an emissions decrease across the planet.
Silver lining is that maybe people will realize they can do without all the things that are destroying our planet like shipping products from China, all the plastics, and unnecessary business travel.
I don't wish ill on anyone - but the reality is COVID-19 is here and we can either look at is as a tragedy and do nothing or try to see it as an opportunity wherever we can.
176
@Tom I hate to challenge your optimism, but unless this creates a lasting recession, most of that demand will come roaring back once the virus fades or a vaccine is found. Most people will rebook flights or buy the items they were not able to buy, factories working overtime to catch up with demand.
16
@Kaveh
The human army, like army ants, will simply regroup the moment it perceives the All Clear, and demolish all in its path.
It's gonna take a lot more than this to keep these enterprising creatures down!
16
@Tom Oh, and also think about our Social Security pending insolvency. COVID-19 will take care of it by reducing the number of recipients quickly and efficiently. Shall we also treat it as an opportunity?
7
I found it ironic that the stock market soared and bankers got out their checkbooks yesterday when Biden appeared to be on the ascendancy.
Biden is the one promising to not change much in our for-profit healthcare system, and yet if ever there was a need for universal coverage now is the time.
Rich and poor, and banker and restaurant workers alike are all at risk and can pass this disease on to all around them. Seems like a good time to ensure that everyone has access to paid family and sick leave, as well as quality healthcare nationwide. But I guess that's not how Wall Street thinks.
382
@avrds
It's not how stupid America thinks, or doesn't, really.
11
@avrds Yes yesterday Wall street said "Thank god we wont have to pay for this pandemic." Today, reset.
13
The rich have hide aways.
8
So travel is down, which means airplane emissions and car emissions are also down...can't say that is entirely a bad thing. The atmosphere can breathe a little better, even if just a smidge.
341
@LV
The air pollution in China after just a month is something like 90% reduced.
71
@Glenn Source of this true fact?
4
@LV
Even if people can't.
4