We all know they're going to find some way to charge us if we do get tested. Nice try but I'd rather keep my three grand. It's not like we're rich and have health insurance.
7
More braindead cherry-picking and whack-a-mole. Americans don't want universal healthcare except when they want universal healthcare unless it means universal healthcare.
5
Let’s get the test kits first, along with efficient administration. And some daily factual reporting of cases would be beneficial too!
It’s impossible to believe that the former world leader known as the United States of America is the only country* NOT testing and reporting during this epidemic.
Thank-you NYTimes for your great updates.
*Russia
8
Send Coronavirus 2019 invoices to Michael Pence and Mr. Donald Trump.
8
@Steven of the Rockies that's actually a great idea.
3
Charging for tests and quarantines...
...Gun, meet knee...
...knee, meet gun.
Isn't this why we have a government??? Come on guys.
4
and don't have ICE at the hospitals looking for illegals, they're a segment of our populations well, and visitors I forgot them.
3
Let's not pretend that Americans care about their neighbors. If they did everyone would have health care. We can blame the politicians, but we select them, and without a doubt the selections of leaders made by the people do not suggest that they are concerned with others.
Lots of people are frightened now because it could be them that gets ill, but that is the only reason anyone cares and now wants the government to do something. It's pretty standard American whiner attitude. There is no need for government until they individually need government and then spare no expense and accumulate as much debt as you need to protect them individually because they are the center of the universe.
8
I think the Coronavirus is the lesson American healthcare needs to realize it’s folly.
4
Ah yes, the U.S Fee-for-service, pay-or-die medical "system" strikes again! If only we had a system that covered everyone with no deductibles, like any other OECD country would....wait, WHAT?!
2
"Waive Fees for Coronavirus Tests and Treatment, Health Experts Urge"
That this even has to be asked/suggested is outrageous. A nation on top of this issue--and let's please remember that we've had months to get ready--would have had this in place before the first case. What? Were we just pretending China, Italy, South Korea and Iran don't exist and their struggles weren't real?
To call this administration's response "inept" is a gross understatement. It's unacceptable to accept this level of dysfunction in a crisis. This is criminal negligence on this administration's part and they must not be allowed to walk away from those charges.
I can only hope that all scientists and that the CDC, from this moment onward, ignore the administration entirely. It is unconstitutional to have to funnel scientific data through Pence, the great science denier.
To the medical profession...please be direct with us and ignore the WH. This administration has made it plain that those in charge have no interest in keeping us safe. You do and we welcome your honesty and plain speaking.
2
So, Medicare for all is necessary if there is an economic threat to the American oligarchs. Got it.
7
This is one situation where we're all in this together. I know republicans and rich people can't stand that, but it's life or death.
2
What about underinsured? I am on a lame ACA Bronze plan.
5
If there's one bright spot from the Covid19 virus, maybe it will be American citizens on the left and right waking up to how appalling our heath care system is and uniting to demand Universal Care.
We cannot allow the working class to not only pay out thousands of dollars in deductibles to be tested, but then miss paychecks from being quarantined or isolated.
3
If this outbreak doesn’t shine a light on the lousy “healthcare” system in this country plus many employers’ skimpy PTO policies, I don’t know what does!
5
Thank you, NY state and Governor Cuomo for doing what is best to keep this virus in check.
Now let’s just ramp up testing so we have good data.
Lots to learn from the South Koreans with their drive thru tests, widespread testing, etc. More data, please!
4
“as public health officials are increasingly worried that medical bills will discourage the poor and uninsured from getting medical care.”
Really? This is only a concern now, with coronavirus, bc it may impact those who do have money? Wow, let’s not worry that this is the reality for millions of people on a daily basis for diseases and addictions that kill way more. Just pathetic.
8
What about undocumented aliens? Who is going to seek treatment if they fear it will result in being deported?
3
OF COURSE, the test should be free! OMG!
We should also have a daily update from this administration that indicates (among other items) how many people have been tested, what the results are, how many have tested positive, how many are receiving treatment and the number of fatalities - as well as where those people are located.
Also, the CDC info page is vastly different from the John Hopkins running totals page. Why is that?
Americans have so many questions! Answer us!
4
Stop construction on the wall. Take the unspent money and fund this program. The virus is here not south of the border.
5
Just one look at the photo tells you exactly how this virus spreads quickly throughout the community.
2
The current epidemic exposes the real dangers of our current private healthcare insurance system. Healthcare isn't a private consumer good like clothing, televisions, or hairstyling. The majority of Americans, not just those 27 million without insurance, need to weigh the financial costs of seeking medical care when they're ill. The bottom half of Americans make an average of $10.22 per hour (source: Brookings Institution), so ANY deductible and co-payments affect their ability to pay the rent and make car payments. A wrong decision can lead to the loss of their apartment or job.
The absurdity is that even those who are "better off" face exposure to this disease every day, unless they stay home until it "blows over" (or until the next epidemic). Because service workers are the least likely to have insurance, paid sick leave, or be able to afford the deductibles and co-payments, the "better off" can't even go out to eat, to exercise class, or take a bus or an Uber. Going to a party, a community meeting, or a concert is already risky in many places.
So are we, as a society, going to decide to "save money" by tweaking the edges of our current healthcare system? Are we going to sacrifice civilized life in order to avoid taxes?
Simply expanding Obamacare leaves high deductibles and co-pays in place, and doesn't reduce costs. It's well known that Medicare for All would reduce current costs by HALF. We need to get there to protect all of us.
10
This seems obvious.
But then, I live in a civilized country with a national health system.
9
If COVID-19 really explodes, it will break the US healthcare system. Millions will actively avoid surveillance because they cannot afford either the testing or the consequences. It will through tens of thousands into bankruptcy. It may force the US to really admit that adequate healthcare is a necessary expense for society.
21
Waive fees for the poor or uninsured? What about families with $5000 deductibles, school loans and elderly parent responsibilities etc? This demographic has been postponing / avoiding medical care for years.
25
You’ll have to see what the value is to the American oligarchs. They are the ones who decide slash are using Biden as a shield to kill off everyone unworthy to live slash not already a billionaire.
2
I pay $15,000!to have healthcare (with nothing ‘covered’) out of $60,000/year annual income. Yes, (I have a PhD, so I’m not the demographic y’all can ‘easily’ deplore...) Am I considered a necessity to the well-being of the American oligarchs to the extent that I will get the fees paid for me under this emergency Medicare For All? I am already aware they don’t care if I die homeless since they refused to pay for a suspicious mammogram, but since the economic well-being of the oligarchs is at stake now, can I slip in under the radar, or should I just prepare to die quietly, like a good non-billionaire?
4
@a I don't even have a family and my deductible is $8500
4
You can't test, quarantine, and vaccinate an entire population by reducing certain health care costs to a "small fee." You can't have a "little bit" of single payer. It's like trying to fix a flat tire by patching most of the holes.
1. Adam Smith, who praised the free market in Wealth of Nations, also wrote that health care is an appropriate function of government. Smith was familiar with plagues, quarantines, and vaccinations.
2. The 1974 Rand Health Insurance experiment was a randomized controlled trial to find out how people respond to financial incentives. They found that even a small charge will make patients more likely to skip life-saving, cost-efficient medical expenses, like blood pressure drugs. This has been confirmed ever since, in journals like NEJM and JAMA.
3. People either have adequate health care, and get into the habit of going to the doctor with problems, or they don't. More people get mammograms if it's part of comprehensive coverage (like a union "Cadillac plan" or the VA system), than they do if mammograms are promoted as a special service to a targeted community.
4. Only a national health care system can handle an epidemic (or any other health problem I can think of). We have (had) our chance to make this our national goal, by voting for Bernie Sanders. The Democratic Party establishment, and their donors, may have prevented that.
We need new Democrats.
16
@Norman
I think the old Dems are with you--look at how hard HRC pushed for universal care in the 90s-- they just understand that candidates like Sanders will lose, and Trump will be a continuing disaster. We can't wish away the opinions of folks in the swing states, no matter how offensive we find them.
1
I will celebrate the day the private insurers go out of business. Medicare for All.
20
At first I thought you were asking for not-for-profit to actually mean not-for-profit. Then I realized it was about asking taxpayers to pay for the costs. Where I live, a lot of medical facilities and hospitals are owned by the DeVos family, and they are known to charge more. Hospitals have to waive their profits on this one, and fair prices established. I'm fine with paying for the poor and destitute, or even for medical professionals, but not for the ultra wealthy to become wealthier.
13
@Marie This is a very good point.
1
It is nice and wise of the New York State to consider waiving fees for the coronavirus tests and treatment. Failure of other States to follow suit will only result in the coronavirus spreading rapidly across the nation and in the bordering countries like Canada, Mexico and beyond. The insurance companies should put their greed aside and stop playing games with the lives of people who cannot afford to pay the fees, for a change. Is it any wonder Bernie Sanders’ proposed policy of free Medicare for all resonates with the masses. I wish the short sighted politicians and health insurance companies took cost of human life into consideration first instead of their bottomline. If they haven’t learned the lesson from the global carnage caused by the spread of coronavirus yet, they never will.
5
Money spent now on detection will ensure we do not have a run-away plague on our hands.
Money spent now to keep people from bankruptcy and illness means our economy can get its groove back sooner.
Money spent now on sick leave will help families, children, all of us to stay well.
We need to slow this virus down. We can do it. If we have the will.
“Where there’s a will, there’s way.”
16
Envision this: some group you are associated with (work, school, gym, ...) has a member that tests positive for this coronavirus. They want all the contacts to be tested. With the majority of people not on a gold plated medical plan, that is a couple of hundred dollars each (physician + test). Even if you are showing symptoms, what difference will testing make to you? Mostly if you are sick you stay home anyway; some companies encourage this to avoid contagion, but this is nothing new.
People want to read the news and know the results, at least until the bill is up close and personal. Then, not so much. The system is generally designed this way, to dissuade use that isn't necessary to improve YOUR health (cynical fine print: and the health of the CEO's wallet). Improving community health isn't a feature with a few specified exceptions like vaccinations. Coronavirus isn't an exception, so the user gets to directly pay even though coronavirus testing will not improve the user's health.
4
As we brace for the potential pandemic, I’d like to remind those of us who may have forgotten just what the federal government is for:
We the People of the United States,
A) in Order to form a more perfect Union,
B) establish Justice,
C) insure domestic Tranquility,
D) provide for the common defence,
E) promote the general Welfare,
F) and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity,
do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
In particular, point E is the most relevant at this time. Notice it makes no mention of keeping Trump in office as a priority.
17
It doesn't matter what any government official says. Health insurance companies go after you for charges they were supposed to cover ALL THE TIME and they make your life hell. Even if you are able to fight them and even if you do ultimately prevail.
16
Heresy! Diseases are opportunities to extract cash from the sick. Does the NYT not understand vulture capitalism?
17
Hopefully there will be enough test kits soon
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2020/03/02/coronavirus-new-york-city-doctor-has-to-plead-to-test-people.html
2
Finally, a sensible move towards Medicare For All.
10
@Corbin Americans were never going to willingly adopt M4A. We have to be absolutely shoved toward it, unfortunately, and lack any better alternative. It's a shame.
Capitalism at its best. You are poor? Die.
16
This article fails to mention the biggest impediment to testing, the fear of quarantine. How can the average American worker afford a week or more off work?
Personally I would never get tested. I can afford a week or 2 off financially but not professionally. Call me selfish but my primary concern is my ability to support my family.
10
@Phil
Right, so you’ll risk getting sick and being out of work for longer than two weeks and potentially getting your partner sick so they also can’t work and your kids getting sick so they also can’t go to school just to avoid having two weeks of health in quarantine?
1
I would still need to work my job, need the pay to cover my basic expenses (home, food, electricity) and it barely does that as it is. If you are poor or near poor (paycheck to paycheck) in US, you just suffer and or die.
4
If the federal government and the GOP doesn't understand why this is important, they need to have the meaning of "community spread" and "public health" explained to them. Many, many, many times, if President Trump's public performance with the heads of drug companies is any indication. Beating this virus is not going to happen if we regard it as another for-profit venture, designed to enrich the President and members of his Cabinet. Sorry, guys--this one isn't going to work unless you think of it being for the entire US of A, Democrats, sanctuary states and Puerto Rico included!
8
This is exactly why the US needs medical care for all payed for by a fair tax system. If people are offering insurance with the aim of making money, they will not forego profit for public welfare. The flip side of that is just what we have in this article - if people with limited means are going to have to pay money they don’t have, they will not seek medical help and will continue to go to work and take public transport, spreading the virus as they go.
Similarly, people with no sick leave can not stay home in self quarantine. You can’t expect them to choose financial ruin for the common good.
The US is the only modern democracy with no national health care. I am very afraid your country is about to pay a terrible cost. People will die. Make it all free now. It may not yet be too late. Surely the “best country in the world” can see its way to do the only possible thing that can mitigate the inevitable deaths of thousands of its citizens.
16
Why isn’t New York paying all fees for anyone who thinks that they might be infected or who is infected? Is there a fear that people from neighboring states will seek free medical care in New York? That sort of foggy thinking is keeping thousands of people in Mexico and other countries from getting free medical care in the US.
2
It is absolutely shameful that Alex Azar, whose qualifications to head HHS seem to be only that he was a pharmaceutical CEO and lobbyist, has implied that the vaccine for the coronavirus might not be affordable to poor people because the drug companies creating it need their profit margin. What is “public health” after all, if not a way to ensure that the public is healthy?
15
Gee, you mean to say that private insurance doesn’t actually work very well? If only there was a candidate who supported universal health insurance!
12
Newsflash!! It’s no longer just the poor and uninsured who cannot afford to access healthcare. Most self-employed people who earn a decent living can now only afford policies that are basically bankruptcy protection. We need to start recognizing how widespread medical care access is- maybe this experience will help to illuminate the issue.
12
@Elizabeth Simpson Please don't forget people who actually have insurance through their employer but need to meet 6K deductible before they see anything. Seriously. Who has good insurance besides government employees?
4
You better believe I'm not getting tested if I come down with a cough/fever. It's the start of the year, I have a $2000 deductible, that's a huge chunk of my overall savings, and who knows how much more it would cost me after that.
This testing needs to be FREE and I hope the conversation about how absolutely ridiculous it is that people have to pay anything related to covid19 helps lead us to the universal health care we all deserve.
17
Your deductible is only $2000? Luck you. Ours is $7500. We have stopped seeing doctors altogether.
3
We also need to make it possible for people to stay home if they are sick! That means extending unemployment coverage to low wage workers ... you know, the people who do face to face retail and food prep! Ditto for caregivers if the schools close or childcare shuts down. Job security for quarentined workers and caregivers, too. It also means relaxed school absence policies. All of these are under state control and need to be addressed now!
15
Sounds like an endorsement of Medicare for all.
7
We need universal healthcare. Sanders is running to give us healthcare. Help us elect him.
8
This is only half the solution. The other half is that sick people have a right to stay home and still get paid rather than forced to work and spread their diseases to co-workers and customers.
11
I remember getting free polio vaccine when I was a child. It was a public good, financed by taxes, to benefit everyone. Same thing here. Free testing for all who need it. Free isolation care if medically necessary. Paid time off for those who are sick.
18
I have a friend in Seattle whose daughter is home sick with Corona type symptoms and her workplace was shutdown for “cleaning”. Her daughter was told she can’t be tested because she doesn’t meet “criteria” but her father works for a company that has an employee with active infection. What’s wrong with this picture? Why aren’t free tests being actively deployed for any potential contagious person? We know people can be contagious even without symptoms!
This is a breakdown of epic proportions due to: lack of preparation, poor communication with state & local governments; poor coordination & integration with state, local & international governments; lack of policy development at federal level; lack of protocols for testing; lack of safety standards & training for quarantines and communication with state & local governments; and finally: lack of training, lack of protective gear, lack of testing kits & poor communication for emergency & health officials who have patient contact.
9
Testing should be FREE FOR ALL. You shouldn't have to prove your income in order to get a virus test!
8
It is very, very difficult to come to any other conclusion but that this administration does not want the numbers of those infected to blossom - NOT due to any real concern for people but rather because those burgeoning numbers would reflect badly on them - and upon the stock market.
Shame on them!
14
The fact that this is even being discussed is proof positive that the government is not interested in containing the virus. Maybe they think it will only affect Democrats.
8
Like all infectious diseases the coronavirus absolutely will disproportionately affect the poor, working and middle classes, which is the Democratic base and population least likely to afford medical care. So yes.
2
It's unbelievable that after all this there are still people against universal health care! It's time to get rid of all these private insurance companies running our health care and educational systems. Those two are basic human right needs for everyone in this planet!
7
President Trump and Republicans cheer for individual rights, personal freedom, lower taxes and self-reliance. Are they still crowing about slashing the Center for Disease Control budget? Where has Pence's crisis team advised citizens with high deductibles and low income go for treatment if infected? Where does the administration advise
people terrified of ICE deportation go if infected,
already castigated as "murderers" and "animals"?
We are in this together whether Trump and Republicans like it or not.
7
Exactly, what about immigrant on path to green card with limited income stays home with symptoms fearing taking government assistance will make him or her liable for “ public charge “ clause and nullifies future green card ?
1
In the White House, a sitting President heading a team of scientific experts seems not to understand that they are telling him a vaccine to combat the novel corona virus might not be safely available for a year or more. On the streets of the nation, ordinary citizens learn that the vaccine will not be free, that likely it will be unaffordable for millions of Americans who will continue to spread it. Solution: Ditch the president; ditch the health system.
9
If we can spend billions of dollars to subsidize farmers hurt by ridiculous and unnecessary tariffs, we can spend billions to help average Americans.
11
As usual, America's for-profit healthcare system is the biggest health crisis we face.
10
Free coronavirus testing paid for by the government? Next you’ll be asking for a living wage and a life of dignity and respect. Back to your quarters.
4
Well! I guess it's 'obvious'. When the health of one of us can threaten all of us-we need-health care for all!
6
Epidemics don't care whether or not people have papers. A must be found to make it possible for undocumented aliens to come forward to be tested. If they think they will be picked up by ICE they won't and they also won't stay home because they can't afford to. That will mean the rest of the population will be exposed when could be avoided.
3
Pence said Medicare and Medicaid would pay for testing. How generous, Mr. Pence. Just as the Supreme Court takes on the legitimacy of the Affordable Care Act - you know, the healthcare insurance that gives those afflicted with pre-existing conditions a lease on life?
The ineptness, lack of medical knowledge, of those at the helm is almost mystifying. They just have no clue. Pence has no understanding of the resources of Medicare and Medicaid - and furthermore - Trump is threatening and pushing to defund those programs! Also Social Security which affects people with disabilities to begin with!
Too little too late. While China was multiplying germs exponentially, what was the US doing? What would we expect from Donald Trump? Wake up, people.
Awful.
6
This should be a heads up to Trump and the Republicans in Congress that the millions of people they don't seem to care if they have medical coverage or not may be the ones that transmit this or some other viruses to their neighborhood. All the hotel workers and cooking staff in Trump's hotels and restaurants are the ones he would be denying coverage if he defeats Obamacare. Viruses do not discriminate they will infect the rich and poor alike, so heads up Republicans the virus is also coming your way.
4
Waiving test and treatment fees seems like a no-brained to me.
4
What would we think if another country, say Russia, was making people pay to get tested/treated for COVID-19?
Endangering the free world maybe?
5
Dear Republicans Lawmakers: Take note that your insistence to take away health insurance from the poor created the perfect storm for this virus to spread to the poor and the rich alike.
4
Free testing for EVERYONE at easily accessible locations. But, of course, our for-profit dysfunctional behemoth of a healthcare system is going to prevent that kind of common sense. So far the good ol’ USofA gets a D for the handling of COVID-19.
6
How about sick leave? If people are feeling sick, do they have the luxury to stay home and rest?
3
In China, the treatment for COVID-19 is free, including the usage of ECMO if necessary, for everyone (including foreigners). Here, the test alone costs ~$3K. Some beautiful American capitalism at work indeed.
6
What about the immigrant who have applied for green card status and are financially modest ? Will any possible government help for virus testing and treatment will invite “ public charge “ clause and undermine their green card status ? Lots of brazen and ill thought out policies consequences are becoming clear now
2
The US is the wildcard in this potential pandemic. The rest of the developed world has socialized health care where as the US has a pay for play system. My fear is that people with the virus with avoid getting tested due to the potential costs which could cause a mass outbreak.
7
What is sad is that we actually have to have this discussion. All of these tests and quarantines should be paid for by the Government in order to reduce the possibility of pandemic levels in these United States.
10
Related topic. Airlines are waiving change fees for recent purchase. I bought my tkts in February for July flights. The fees for 3 tickets will be $600 !! How do we bring pressure on Airlines to cover earlier purchases?
3
So we want universal healthcare when there's an infectious pandemic, but no other time? Medicare for All sure would be pretty handy right about now.
23
The moment the US health care system gets tested it quickly shows its cracks. Uninsured not getting tested due to costs...I get it, and at the same time endangering everyone else. Still against health care for all? If you still are wait until the next virus that could be more lethal.
Everyone has to have free or covered access to test or whatever they need in a situation like this.
16
Making coronavirus testing and treatment will still be inadequate measures if millions of people continue to have no paid sick leave and there is still no national standard for a living wage. If people cannot afford to take time off when they are sick, they will go to work sick and the disease will continue to spread. Happens with the flu every year.
10
We pay for all manner of public services - transportation infrastructure, defense, education etc., but when it comes to healthcare rational thought and calm discussion appears impossible.
The premise that allowing the profit motive will result in efficient resource allocation in healthcare has gone unchallenged - the entrenched insurance and pharma businesses (and their proxies) swiftly demonize and kill attempts to change.
Somehow, providing for the health and well-being of your fellow citizen, and therefore yours, has turned into a "radical" idea!
23
And this article doesn't even mention paid sick days. And what happens when schools close, and parents have no affordable babysitter/daycare access?
19
Free testing is critical. I can vouch for that from personal experience: as a former nurse, I’m sure I have CoVid19, but no way am I going to pay over $3,000 to verify it. It’s unbelievable to me that our country got caught so flat-footed. There was more than enough time to at least prepare for testing! I’ve been laying in personal supplies for over two weeks, but our government seems to have done nothing. That’s “American Exceptionalism” at work. Hubris.
21
How much of this price is the real cost of the test? That's the real question here. The national debt is sky-high as it is, no way Americans can afford to pay tens of millions of tests at 3000 dollars a piece. Does the test cost 3000 dollars in South Korea, Italy, France?
1
@Marie The actual cost of RT-QPCR testing is around 20 US$ for the test and equipment usage. Had 30$ for cost of personnel time. 50$
I don't include profit in this of course;
1
The effete elite just don't get it. I've been working 60 hours a week with two part-time jobs, neither of which offered insurance. The better paying job has been precarious for a year and a half, threatening to shut its doors due to the poor economy. So during each ACA enrollment period, I didn't opt in, because I didn't know if I would have the funds to buy the not-so-affordable insurance plans. Sure enough, that job folded mid-January. The remaining gig? It pays $3 to $5 per hour. The only thing going for me is that I haven't procrastinated, and have been using gloves, Lysol wipes, hand sanitizers, hand washing and social distancing for at least six weeks. And I've got a two month supply of food and water stockpiled. Bring on the zombies.
10
I think it will be good to make medical care free for coronovirus cases / suspected cases as well and not just testing. The less well-off are the ones most vulnerable to the virus as they cannot afford masks or sanitisers or others basic hygiene measures that the richer people can. Plus expensive medical care, they will want to get tested and seek medical care - thus increasing spread in the community.
Paying for medical care for coronovirus is not new or novel. Some countries are already doing it, such as in the Asian country of Singapore, which allowed it to quickly put the virus spread under control in the country and people are willing to go to get tested.
12
Well, it's true. I won't go and get tested if I feel ill, since 1) my doctor wouldn't see me for about 8 weeks, and 2) I have no idea how much it would cost. So I won't go. I'll stay home and hope for the best. And so will millions of others I'm afraid. Private health companies will make a profit until we die.
42
@just someone Me neither - nor anyone in my immediate family. Can't afford to go to the doc when sick, and generally go into work because no sick days.
Now, once they get a vaccine and count it as "preventative care" - the only part of our plan that seems like actual coverage - then we'll all go in and get the shot.
7
On every dimension - medical, economic, social, humanitarian - it's a no-brainer. I fear that the inhumane among us won't see the sense of it until they and their loved ones are affected.
20
In a medical crisis, if health care is not universally available to all people, we all are endangered. this should be an important lesson about the need for universal health care in general too. It's crazy to leave millions of citizens without coverage and now the SCOTUS is deliberating about destroying the ACA. I can't think of anything more insane than that.
43
This is a rather illuminating story. It seems incomprehensible that a first world country would need legislation to enable affordable access to medical care for treatment of a flu. We are not talking of a complex or resource intensive medical procedure here but instead a simple and relatively inexpensive test and corresponding course of treatment. There is no where else in the western industrialized world where such an issue would be a factor in devising a protocol for flu treatment.
The simple conclusion is that private, for profit health insurance makes illness or injury in an otherwise civilized country a possible financial disaster. The "competition" that is supposed to naturally limit profit taking in the medical industry is in fact a competition to maximize profits.
I would urge U.S. residents to re-examine their thinking regarding medical care; with a view to determining if profit at the expense of the individual's health and well being is a morally defensible position in 2020.
You have a constitutional right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, founding principles that inspired the rest of the world. ... Perhaps now it would be advisable to let the rest of the world inspire you to consider the premise that these aforementioned constitutional rights are in-congruent with such a uniquely punitive and outdated healthcare system
40
Waiving the fees and expenses for testing coronavirus and treatment of those infected is the only real solution in the US to ensure folks get help when needed.
Many people will not get tested and spread the virus if they are staring down a $3,000 bill just to get tested. I hope every state in the union takes New York's lead.
28
I hope the NYT will pursue this issue. I’d like to see the topic of payment raised at the daily briefing with the VP. Are the insurers at the table with the other response team members? It seems we ignore the significance of and direct impact on individuals of the cost of receiving heath care.
26
“When a patient who has potentially been exposed to the virus develops symptoms consistent with Covid-19, they should be able to seek appropriate medical care without being worried they cannot afford it,”
Umm, why should this idea be restricted to symptoms of Covid-19?
Yes, lets be sure to lolly gag around and spend a LOT of time talking about this novel concept of not dissuading people from seeking medical help due to concerns over not being able to afford it.
32
Senator Murray must know that deductibles and co-payments are a huge barrier to care in Washington State. Hospitals make the problem much worse by suing patients afterward; bankruptcy is just the tip of the iceberg. In Jefferson County across the ferry from Seattle, nearly 10,000 patients have been sent to collection since 2013, and hundreds have been sued. The average gross wage of families who don't declare bankruptcy and whose wages are garnished? $36,000. Medical debt has become the number one civil legal problem according to a Supreme Court survey. Hospitals ignore charity care law.
Of course it's not as bad as Kansas where they throw people in jail for failing to show up for medical debt hearings.
Senator Murray, short of waiving deductibles and co-payments, please consider national legislation to outlaw sending patients to collection and suing them for medical debt which they do not choose, and which is driving Americans further into poverty.
39
Under my ACA insurance plan I pay 100 percent of costs up to $7200. Being tested for Covid-19 largely needs to be done for public health reasons in order to do our best to contain spread of the virus and should be paid for publicly if the effort is to succeed.
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Everyone should have access to healthcare. I lived in Japan and had access to free healthcare as a foreigner living there for five years. I have friends who moved to South Korea so they could have healthcare for a hundred dollars that would have made them homeless in America. We need healthcare here. Bernie 2020.
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This is why we need universal healthcare. Stop the insurance craziness. Yes people that are uninsured will avoid the emergency room and ambulances and they need to be covered, but a problem for the middle class, too. Who wants to pay $14,000 for deductible? Maybe the coronavirus will catapult us into Medicare for all.
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@Elizabeth
Indeed Elizabeth. I immigrated to Canada 14 years (and not because of the healthcare), so I've been somewhat removed from healthcare costs in the US. If people have a $14K deductible and the family makes on average $36K a year, it is no wonder everyone is fearful of hospital and healthcare debt.
Health insurance in the US is the biggest scam next to pharmaceutical price gouging.
I retired here in Canada at age 55 - I see now I would never have been able to afford to do so in the US. I feel blessed to be living in a country that embraces socialized medicine. It is truly the *only* solution.
Until the insurance lobby is run out of DC, the US will be hard-pressed to get "medicare for all" - even under Biden. Biden helped write the ACA which still kowtows to the medical insurance industry.
BTW, you *can* still get "supplemental" medical insurance here in Canada - Blue Cross is one of the biggest supplemental medical insurance providers. So do not ever let anyone tell you that you cannot have your "special healthcare perks" if you go to socialized healthcare.
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@Radha
Just a little reminder that BC residents pay a nominal monthly premium for provincial health coverage, which does not cover things such as annual check-ups. In Ontario we have no monthly premium, and what is covered by the annual physical has been decreasing over the years. Each province has its own plan, mostly funded by the Feds.
I do not agree that Canada has socialized healthcare in the way Bernie Sanders envisions it.
We have taxpayer-funded healthcare. Most importantly, we have a guarantee that we will not have to die, or live under a bridge, because we cannot afford to be tested or treated. And I would not trade it for anything.
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@maggie
Maggie, that co-pay for MSP (Medical Service Plans) in BC has been waived. We no longer pay a co-pay. Mine was $18.25 per month before they dropped the fee.
I too would not trade Canadian healthcare coverage for the for-profit healthcare coverage in the US. I feel blessed to live in Canada.
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officials and advocates want to ensure that medical bills, especially for the poor or uninsured, are not an obstacle to seeking care.
Wow- what a concept. But why did it take to the year 2020 and a terrifying pandemic for this to be considered? Maybe the rich are thinking that a healthy population might just be the most important thing to ensure their own longevity and continued wealth....
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To the extent that reimbursement and access to care can be influenced at the start level, we may have an interesting experiment here. Will infection and mortality rates be higher in red states that won’t act to change insurer policies or pay for evaluation and testing of uninsured people?
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I’m currently dealing with a severely herniated disc and potential surgical procedure, and all of the associated joys regarding my health insurance policy- what it covers, what it doesn’t, what I owe, what I don’t. And this is with insurance, mind you. I think of the growing case load of Coronavirus patients, and how many uninsured will steer clear of care entirely, thanks to our utterly broken healthcare system. If there was ever a flashpoint moment demonstrating how crucial public healthcare is, this is it.
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The government, right now, should fix the prices that can be charged by doctors, hospitals, labs, pharmacies, ambulances, etc. for coronavirus related expenses and be billed directly - and make the penalties for fraud scary. Of course this is how it happens in countries with universal health care already.
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@ExPat The Trump Administration will do no such thing, unfortunately. Neither Trump nor the Republican Party believes that the government should play any role at all in ensuring that citizens receive health care. As a result, if COVID becomes more deadly, America is probably among the worst-positioned countries to deal with it.
Too many Americans won't see a doctor or go to the hospital because they fear receiving massive medical bills (tens of thousands of dollars) that they then have no way to pay. And in this country, doctors and hospitals regularly obtain legal judgements against poor people for unpaid medical bills (a judgment liens all future wages, forcing poor people into bankruptcy). The entire model of health care in the U.S. is designed to discourage patients from seeking care. There's no way you're going to stop a pandemic with that kind of model. There's just no way.
And having a carve-out just for COVID-related costs won't work, either. If an uninsured/underinsured American thinks they're infected, they likely still won't risk getting tested/seeking treatment. Because if it's not COVID, again, they're then on the hook for huge medical bills. You literally couldn't design a worse system if you tried.
After all, it's the American wealth-care system we're talking about (I refuse to call it a 'health care system' because it has nothing to do with health care. Its sole purpose is to fleece the American people in order to line the pockets of the rich).
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Ah, suddenly in a crisis we care about people having access to medical care? That seems to have more to do with making sure this administration doesn’t look bad rather than it does with the principle of ensuring people can access affordable healthcare regardless of their background.
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There is ordinary incompetence, and then there is anti-competence. Trump and his administration always do exactly the opposite of what any competent administration would do.
The Coronavirus/COVID crisis continues to worsen, not only in America, but across the world.
The testing fiasco is only one example, and it will not be the last.
Widespread testing on the West Coast and elsewhere will show thousands of cases of Coronavirus, and more deaths that had been attributed to something else.
Economic disruption from the pandemic will lead to a worldwide recession.
I do not believe that full recovery is possible until after Trump is defeated in the November election, and leaves the White House in January.
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I wonder how many people will scream "Socialism!" and turn down government payment for the thousands of dollars they may be charged for testing or treatment?
How is it ok to have the government--the taxpayers--pick up the tab for whatever grossly inflated cost providers choose to set, but not ok to have a universal healthcare system in which taxpayers pick up the tab for a rationally negotiated price?
The mind boggles.
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@Terry
It's evil socialism if it helps other people, but when it helps me it's just good government.
And get your government hands off my Medicare.
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@Terry They will scream "socialism" about other getting free testing/treatment, but demand the same thing as a "right" for themselves.
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What about all those studies that allegedly show how much people "love" their private health insurance? Could that somehow be an exaggeration or even a complete and utter falsehood by those seeking to preserve the current system?
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@ Pat
I, for one, don’t love our employer-based health insurance. It’s functional but not cheap. Love and health insurance are two words that don’t really go together.
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@Pat
As I wrote elsewhere, I moved permanently to Canada 14 years ago and am blessed to live under a socialized medical system.
But do not every let anyone tell you that there is no "supplemental health insurance" in Canada, because I can swear to you that there is. I retired at 55 and have Blue Cross supplemental insurance - it helps pay for little extras that the national healthcare system doesn't currently cover, like pharmaceutical.
There is *indeed* supplemental insurance in socialized healthcare countries. Employers could still offer those perks.
Americans need to get over their fear of losing their health insurance from employers. Employers should *all* embrace socialized medicine. It would save them millions if not billions across the country.
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@Pat
They don't love their current insurance so much as they are afraid the government version will turn out to be worse... and given the stranglehold that the health industry has on Washington I can't call them crazy for that. It is not patient centric, it is profit centric.
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The fact that we have a private, for-profit healthcare system will mean the pandemic will look very different in the United States. People who cant afford big medical bills for isolation and treatment will avoid getting tested at all until direly sick. Before then, they will stay in the community and spread the virus. This wont just be low income folks but also middle income folks who are living close to the edge. Our choice of healthcare system will result in a much worse epidemic than other countries.
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@Carol
Sure, but shareholder value...
1
The government and insurers need to do some cost/benefit analysis.Making testing free and paying for hospitalization would be an incentive to have sick individuals come forward.They could be treated and prevented from exposing more people.Task one in a public health Emergency is to,identify and isolate-that is much cheaper than paying the costs for a full blown , widespread epidemic.
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Yes, but then CEOs of pharma and insurance companies would have to think twice about buying that third yacht. Republicans weep, thinking of that poor man's suffering. Negotiated prices? Cost/benefit analysis? It's been done, over and over and over. The U.S. pays more for less, because unfettered capitalism must run through America, vacuuming profit and wealth for the already wealthy.
Such is the trumpian way.
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it is the cynic in me that wonders how much of the drive for profit was behind the current CDC testing fiasco. It explains the incomprehensible choice to not use the WHO's test.....it is much easier to justify charging if you can claim credit for the 'work'.
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All one has to do is look at the multi- billion dollar profits medical insurance companies make year after year (even quarter to quarter) to know they care about profits and not the health of their customers.
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My experience with Kaiser is that they recognize that they actually make money when people are NOT sick- they do a lot in the area of prevention and healthy living. Makes sense- if your revenue comes from collecting premiums you will make more money when you do NOT have to shell out services to heal the sick. Their business model is they make money when people are well. Of course they are a non-profit...
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The ONLY way to contain Coronavirus in the US is free testing and treatment.
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@Shaz I completely agree, but it absolutely won't happen .....there is no profit to be made in that course of action.
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Given the horrendous result if the Virus takes hold in the US the costs of the testing et al should be handled by the government - federal - state. We are being told to get tested if we feel ill. What happens if the person has no or very limited insurance and doesn't get checked out. We all pay in different ways -hospitalization and/or death and the costs become huge.
Lets get our head squared away and pay for the testing and if necessary the hospitalization. We will ALL benefit.
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@paul s Yes...but at negotiated prices.
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I called my Representative last week to suggest two things:
1. That the federal government cover all diagnostic and care costs relating to COVID-19 for all.
2. That the federal government give money to research institutions at universities and hospitals to study the virus as it moves. The information may help us the next time we face a similar threat.
Both seem like great uses of taxpayer money to me.
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Because you are not really their actual constituent, your suggestions will likely be ignored.
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This is a no-brainer. Seriously, if people are going to be charged thousands of dollars as they have a huge deductible(or no insurance at all), they're not likely to go get tested. Those such as the homeless may well get tested as they really aren't likely to be pursued for payment but not those without medical insurance or with high-deductibles.
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@Greenie Hello, Im a registered nurse. My specialty ( before I retired) was filing Health insurance for the care given by 2 thoracic surgeons. I began in 1985 until present. This is what I see: At the present time health insurance companies are "racking up millions in profit" by not paying a large portion of sick patient's medical bills. By forcing upon the patient excessive monthly premiums--deductibles, co pays, and annual out of pocket maximums ( average being up to $6,000.00 per year.)
Is the USA a civilized country or not? Of course many middle class and poor people are not going to get tested for this Corona Virus due to fear of losing their meager saving to pay for the treatment. What does this say about our health care deliver system in the United States of America mostly related to money and profits. Its deplorable . I recently had a colonoscopy. My attending nurse told me. Your Doctor only can spend 45 minutes doing your colonoscopy and probably afterwards he will not have time to speak to you before you return to his office for follow up. Because he must do 10 colonoscopies per day to pay his office overhead, malpractice ins, and take home pay. I think Pres Trump has missed the ball on improving health care delivery in USA. Ann C.
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