Why do people assume that the Black vote in South Carolina is representative of the Black vote everywhere? Do African Americans in South Carolina skew older, more conservative than, say, Michigan or Wisconsin? I bet they do.
When African Americans take an objective look at Biden, they'll see a Senator who voted to send their kids to war in Iraq; facilitated the confirmation of the worst possible representative of the concerns of African Americans, Clarence Thomas; allowed the humiliation of a principled Black women, Anita Hill; voted in support of credit card companies thereby making bankruptcy harder for the poor; voted for the incarceration of Blacks at record numbers.
Black Americans, if they look carefully, will see a Vice President whose Obama administration saved criminal big banks and protected those banks from prosecution while letting working class home owners, many of them Black, lose their homes. Obama's trip to Flint, Michigan to calm legitimate Black fears of lead in the drinking water was a betrayal of that city's Blacks. Instead of helping Flint's residents confront the lead problem, Obama supported Republican Governor Snyder's neglect of it.
As both a Senator and as Vice President in an administration that promoted the well being of big corporations over the well being of the working class -- many of them Black -- Biden deserves no support from Black Americans.
17
So Sanders got 48% of Nevada and Biden got 48% of SC. OK, so I say, so what? Tuesday is the big test, after which Biden's backers will likely be hauling the antacid back out of the medicine chest, and Joe Scarborough and the rest of the former-Republican fake-Democrats all over MSNBC and CNN will need to find something else to talk about besides their usual nauseating banter, about 75% of which consists of incessant praise for Joe Biden.
14
As a Democrat, I would certainly prefer Sanders over our current dictator. But with sanders, those on the right will hate him as much as those on the lest hate Trump. We will be no better off with Sanders than we are now - two diametrically opposed groups with no accomplishments to show for themselves. I am supprting Biden, who will at least attempt to bring these two warring sides together. With Sanders or Trump, we will continue to battle and go nowhere.
17
@Robert Scull
This is rich. North Carolina voted for Trump, has two Republican senators, horrific gerrymandering, election fraud, and Mark Meadows.
I get your point, but there are liberals, moderates, and conservatives everywhere. And everyone’s vote must count.
1
Is anyone trying to prod Bloomberg, Buttigieg, Klobuchar into throwing their support behind Biden. If they supported him and with Warren in a key cabinet spot like Treasury and Bloomberg and Yang in Commerce, this juggernaut would be hard to beat.
7
For those of you so excited about the prospect of Biden winning the nomination I have to point out 2016!
First: Burisma. It doesn’t matter if the accusations are true or not, just the confusion they cause is enough! And with a compliment government, working towards the sitting President’s re-election, a Comey style broad side is assured.
Second: Biden’s history of tall tales and flat out lies! Trump can get away with it, can lie right to your face about what you know is untrue! Nobody else can!
I don’t know if even Jesus himself would be pure enough to stand against Trump, but I can tell you this, who ever the Democratic nominee ends up being better not have any skeletons in their closet, not even a chicken bone, because the Republican spin machine will blow up into a crime against humanity!
9
There aren't really that many "tough" decisions to be made right now - just a bunch of common sense decisions that rub candidates' egos the wrong way. If Klobuchar and Buttigieg really want a moderate/unity nominee, they need to get out right now, and give Super Tuesday voters a simpler choice between Biden and Bloomberg. If Warren really wants a candidate who will pursue the types of policies she has advocated, she needs to get out right now, and let Super Tuesday voters a simpler choice between Bernie and someone who might win in November.
The really "tough" decisions will likely come on Wednesday, when Biden and Bloomberg, based on Tuesday's results will need to decide whether it's time to get out.
2
Good for Joe. After so many years in politics, he deserved a win like this. For those like me who don't support his candidacy this time, but did in the past, South Carolina is a nostalgic last hurrah for him.
4
Democrats, you face a choice.
Do you want a ticket formed around the candidate the most voters backed in the primaries, but with the downside that a marginal majority might prefer someone else? That comes at the cost of continuing unease among those others.
Or do you prefer a ticket formed around a candidate who got fewer votes in the primaries, but with the downside that you might not get that ticket except by letting the party elite bypass the candidate who won more votes? That comes at the cost of an all-out war within the party—a war which the bypassed bloc, the largest in the party, will continue even after the general election has been decided.
Which seems the wiser choice? Which better serves the long-term interests of the party?
4
If the Dems select Bernie Sanders as their candidate they will be handing the election to Trump which will be a disaster. He is too far left for most voters and is promising pie in the sky.
While I would love to see a woman as president, I fear that too few of my fellow citizens would agree. I think that at this point we must be practical and select a middle of the road man, such as Biden or Bloomberg and a woman as vice president with the expectation that she runs for president in 8 years assuming that the incumbent lasts 2 terms.
11
As a Bernie-or-buster Independent, I somehow found myself relieved by Biden's decisive (ok, crushing) win last night. Like it or not, there was going to be a centrist challenger to Sanders. Much, much better that it should be Biden than Bloomberg. (It was never going to be Amy or Pete.)
93
Biden won S.C. on Saturday and Sanders raised 4.5 million the same day, thats a record, along with a total of 46 million and change for the month of February at around 21 bucks a pop. That is around 2 million individual donors for the month. Do the math. Those numbers are going to translate into votes on Tuesday.
153
@Citizen If I had $60,000 in student loan debt that Sanders promised he would make millions of strangers pay off for me, I would probably send him twenty bucks as well.
22
@ Citizen, Well done. I like the math. "False Promises" indeed, Joe. I wish that someone, like NYTs would do a poll of the MAGA crowds at a Trump rally and quantify their concerns. I would guess that Bernie's platform is closer to their lives than any other democrat, Biden particularly.
15
@Citizen
"Do the math."
Yep, Sanders has more cash than everybody but Bloomberg. However, the number of Sanders donors is miniscule compared to the number of eligible voters. The overwhelming majority of Americans never donate at all to political campaigns.
12
Sunday, 3/1/2020
Biden's "Fox News Sunday" interview with Chris Wallace:
"Mr. Vice President, thank you. Thanks for your time. Please come back in less than 13 years, sir," Chris Wallace said as the interview ended.
“All right, Chuck. Thank you very much," Biden replied.
“All right, it’s Chris, but anyway," an amused Wallace said.
"Chris, I just did Chris. No, no, I just did Chuck. I tell you what, man, these are back-to-back," Biden replied. "Anyway, I can do it early in the morning too. ”
2
Can we be real for a moment.
A.) If African-Americans do not come out in big numbers for whomever the candidate turns out to be, they are as stupid as the worst of Trump supporters.
B.) If Hispanic-Americans do not come out in bigger numbers and percentage of Democrat votes than in 2016, whomever the candidate is will be in big trouble.
C.) If Sanders gets the nomination and is smart enough to pick Julian Castro as his VP running mate, Arizona WILL vote for Sanders and Texas WILL definitely will be in play.
Summary: African-American AND Hispanic-American AND youth turnout are equally important to a Dem victory and the surest way to turn off Sanders huge numbers among 18-29 year olds is to screw him at the Convention.
Oh yeah. IF it is true that suburban women are "anti-Sanders", they too will be total dummies if they do not vote for him if he is the candidate.
7
Your comments overlooked the number one problem with analyzing voter behavior:
Never underestimate the ignorance of the American people.
8
"Mr. Vice President, thank you. Thanks for your time. Please come back in less than 13 years, sir," Wallace said as the interview ended.
“All right, Chuck. Thank you very much," Biden replied.
“All right, it’s Chris, but anyway," an amused Wallace said.
1
If I'm Joe Biden, I have a little sit down with Elizabeth Warren and say:
"Liz, you talk a lot about unity. Fine. How would like to be my VP? We get right out in front of this and announce that you are dropping from the race in order to join me and my team."
4
Offshore for Bernie
Fear of the Bern –
An old true believer
Will tax business income
Like he’s the receiver –
Empty the till
And shake out the pennies
Until you hit empty
With breakfast at Denny’s
Time for deception -
Hide every resource,
No respite for rich folks –
Line up, in due course;
Wear sack cloth and ashes
From a secondhand thrift
Go offshore for “counsel”
Leave no resource to sift.
1
Watching his victory speech, it was like a different man inhabited Biden's body. Can this new, confident, eloquent, super-charged Joe Biden stay the course or will the old one slip back into his skin after Super Tuesday? Biden has always been most comfortable talking the warm-fuzzy personal stuff with some high notes about integrity and unity than about policy. He throws off his "build and improve on Obamacare" and a public option as if we all know what that means and why it would solve the problems. Somehow, it's the "It's not radical" idea we're supposed to buy. He has not been called to account on his healthcare proposals the way Sanders and Warren have. Nor has he been forced to explain how he could get them past Mitch McConnell who dug in against his old boss, Barack. But there will be a time for such accounting and his awshucks, can't we all just get along schtick might wear thin.
5
Was it “normal” when the Senate under McConnell refused to hold hearings for Merrill Garland’s appointment to the Supreme Court? Was Biden able to “work with” Republicans during the Obama administration? No. When one of the major parties has gone completely off the rails, and operates under a scorched-earth war mentality towards the other party, is there a normal to return to?
4
I would like all the billionaires out of the race. Sanders, Warren, or Biden. It's time to narrow the field.
Joe's victory speech in South Carolina yesterday was the best of his life. I hope enough voters see it before Super Tuesday.
9
It appears that Amy’s and Pete’s overly fueled egos, and Warren’s hippocracy on super pac $ will compel them to stay in and assure
Trump’s eventual win over Bernie and his bro’s and whatever is left
of the Democratic House to say nothing of assuring Republican dominance of the Senate.
2
We guarantee health care for the poor, the addicted, the young, and the old. How about we guarantee health care for everyone who works for a living. A Medicaid backstop for all who work. The Democrats should try being the party of Labor. No American worker should be sold into indentured servitude for want of health insurance.
5
Let's see what happens on Tuesday. But today, let's see who takes the lessons from Saturday:
1) Dismissing the message of moderate African American voters in the South and anywhere is offensive. (Me? I think dismissing ANY moderate voters is offensive.)
2) Want to win African American votes? Spend time with African Americans.
9
Joe Biden is an old fashioned retail politicians. Like the Avon lady or the Fuller Brush man he will knock on your door and remind you of a beloved uncle. While he grins at you it is hard not to trust him and wish for the best.
The problem is it is Amazon time, not Avon time, and retail politics seems more like Bernie Sanders firing up a brand new generation of idealists and voters with a pretty savvy modern presence.
Corporate interests, including corporate media, have given us Hilary Clinton, t rump, and Mcconnell and they haven't really turned out so great for the vast majority of US.
t rump's successful con convinced enough voters to try someone outside the corporate establishments; trouble is he was lying about the whole thing, but his clown act keeps enough of his very base base entertained enough to ignore reality.
As Warren keeps saying; it is time to stop voting our fears and start voting our dreams and aspirations.
It is time to stop letting the fears of the establishment about a return to FDR's New Deal style setting the agenda.
Vote Blue
4
Biden's memory lapses are a real concern, what happens when that red phone rings? Will he know where he is and what needs to be done? Really scary.
7
It seems to me that the CNN, MSNBC, and, alas, the New York Times are trying to spin Joe Biden's victory in the South Carolina primary into a major political comeback. These media companies seem to be rooting for and creating a plot line about a Biden vs. Sanders campaign. Perhaps that two-candidate race will occur, but we will not know until after Super Tuesday. The Times's reporting and commentary continues to be too kind to Biden and too critical of Sanders.
8
What fools we Dems are to have allowed the silly Iowa caucus and New Hampshire primary to lead the process. I’m more for Liz than Biden but think how differently this whole election story would be playing out if the more representative South Carolina had gone first. No Bernie “momentum” and no Bernie front runner status letting him gain ground toward this Tuesday. Let’s just press Restart please.
5
Contrast the short, sweet and hopeful speech that Biden made after his South Carolina win with one significant fraction of the Sanders campaign (link to NY Times story about them below). They don't mind a little racism, sexism. When Clinton's name is comes up, they chant, "Lock her up." When Bloomberg's name came up at a recent event, somebody shouted "kill him" and everybody laughed. They claim it's all a joke. Remind you of somebody else we know?
Link:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/29/us/politics/bernie-sanders-chapo-trap-house.html
6
@Robert
I read that article when it appeared and it just about quantified every misgiving I have about a Sanders presidency.
And anyone who has ever commented online already knows about the 'Bernie Bros' approach to quieting dissent.
Is this country really so ready to replace one dogmatic ideologue with another?
These are the questions Americans should be asking themselves.
7
@N. Smith
In South Carolina Mr. Darby, a minister, used the analogy of a house on fire. He said, first put out the fire before you start redecorating. Burning the whole house down isn't putting out the house fire. You don't put out a house fire by starting another fire at the other end of the house.
4
I have been a doctor for over 30 years. I have been a Sanders supporter until the past week. The direction that our country has been on for at least 5 decades has been a slowly rolling disaster. Only a "revolution" offers hope. However, I believe that opportunity has been lost due to the developing Coronavirus pandemic. There is no crystal ball into the future, but we must be ready for the worst. If it doesn't happen all the better. What could unfold is so ominous that all Americans must do their best. The medical scenario that some predict implies that everyone may be exposed to the virus.
The viral spread suggests a change in its vector. It is an airborne virus. That usually means that it is pathogenic for just a few days in a small area. However, global warming and genetic mutation may have changed that. If it can survive airborne for prolonged periods, perhaps it has blown across the Pacific and just landed on our Western shores. Nothing should be dismissed. Despite a quarantine it spread through the cruise ship. The most likely vector was though the ventilation system. Did the jets that evacuated Americans vent into the atmosphere? Medical isolation requires a closed ventilation system. The breakdown of supply chains that could follow a disabling medical pandemic could be biblical. For these reasons radical change is too late. We missed the opportunity in 2016. Right now we need a proven manager. That is Bloomberg. Neither Biden (nor the others) are up to the job.
4
Joe Biden is the best option for progressives if they would only review history. Let’s remember that some of the most progressive legislation that is still in place was passed during the administration of Lyndon B. Johnson. Medicare/Medicaid, the first Clean Air Act, the Head Start Project, financial assistance for housing, the Civil Rights Act, the Voting Rights Act. Like Lincoln, Johnson was a moderate who worked diligently across the aisle. When I was young, I was angry too. I wanted immediate change and voted for a revolutionary radical. Fortunately, he lost. Biden is not the most romantic figure. He stutters. He doesn’t rant and inflame (some call it ‘inspire’ but I don’t) his followers. But throughout his history he has worked across the aisle to get things accomplished. Sanders has accomplished nothing during his time in Congress because he works with no one. Such has been the case since he received his degree in political science. Instead of joining with senior liberals and learning from them he took odd jobs barely supporting his child and the child’s mother. He trashed Governor Kuhn, Hillary Clinton and attempted to do so with Elizabeth Warren. His record with women who have some power is poor and one ought to wonder how he would support women in the future. Rather than vote for another ‘my way or the highway’ con man, I will write in Joe Biden.
7
The most important problem we face is climate change. But illegal immigration is connected to climate change, and most NY Times readers are unaware of the connection.
Indeed, there has never been a serious debate of the impact of illegal immigration on the future of the US as it confronts climate change.
We need to stop illegal immigration. Not by treating immigrants badly, but by finding solutions to the problems that drive illegal immigration.
Trump had a simplistic message. Stop illegal immigration by building a wall.
Democrats have adopted similar oversimplified messages. The slogan "children in cages" inflames rather than informs. Both political parties seem more interested in photo-ops to proclaim the moral superiority of their positions then the nitty gritty of policy.
Both parties engage in black and white thinknig. What we need is a realization that problems are complex and that no set of solutions will be perfect.
Because I believe all of this, it will come as no surprise that I have abandoned Sanders, although I once supported him.
The key issue for our country is reestablishing dialog between opposing views so that Congress can function once again in the difficult tax of designing policies that nobody will like, but everyone can live with.
Biden and Bloomberg have the right temperament to help America pull back from the abyss and abjure excessive partisanship.
I think Bloomberg has a better chance of beating Trump.
So he is my choice for now.
3
It’s down to Sanders, Biden, Buttigieg, and Bloomberg now. The rest are done even if they don’t know it yet. The field will quickly contract down to Sanders and Biden after Super Tuesday.
1
A win is a win. Granted, South Carolina is a very red state. But keep in mind that in 2016, Trump won Iowa and New Hampshire was very close.
The reality is that Sanders appears to have a substantial overall lead in the Democratic primaries. Joe Biden is in second place.
Most of the other candidates (Warren, Klobuchar, and Buttigieg) have no real shot (face it, they're toast). Bloomberg is the wild card, but only because of his money.
In head-to-head polls against Trump, Sanders and Biden appear to be about the same. Until recently, Biden was running a bit stronger than Sanders.
I suspect the race for the nomination will tighten a bit, and we'll know a lot more after Tuesday's elections.
My guess is that the most likely outcome is that no candidate with have a majority of pledged delegates heading to a convention.
2
Ms. Cottle,
Joe Biden's strongest suit is he has the greatest potential over all of the other candidates to increase the Democratic majority in the House and a very good chance of delivering a Democratic majority in the Senate. In political language the political coattails to deliver the down ticket candidates.
I was careful in weighing my words because I examined all the candidates and I am reasonably certain that no other candidate has the experience and insider's knowledge. Mr. Bloomberg has the money but I don't believe even with investment of mega millions in electing democrats to Congress
As you know, a Congressional majority is the only way that any President can restore good government and passage of legislation to deliver the social, financial and health, environmental, and economic objectives to address the huge challenges associated with the evolution of the global economy to non-fossil generated energy, while delivering the economic strength of improve the lives of all Americans.
We have a great field of Presidential candidates from the Senate but with all issues considered, the country would be better off if they keep their seats and energy in the Senate.
10
@james jordan
Agree! And the fact that so many Democratic Senators found themselves in the running always struck me as a dangerous gamble when taking Mitch McConnell's Republican stronghold into account.
Because ultimately, that's where the real battle will be if Trump isn't reelected.
3
@james jordan
Your problem with that theory is that Obama (/Biden) and Pelosi already lost you 1000 down ballot seats between '10 and '14. Clinton brought it home by losing the Senate and getting us Trump. Sanders couldn't do much worse, but maybe Bloomberg could buy Joe the House and Senate. If the voters are inclined to get in line, of course.
1
Biden just won big. Big turnout and big lead over Bernie. He is now a credible alternative to the Bernie noise machine. Lots of name recognition helps to compensate for a meager campaign presence in the Super Tuesday states. Plenty of $$ after Carolina will help during March. All he needs is for AK and Pete to drop out.
8
@minimum
And if he wins? Better than Trump but status quo. Leaving us ripe for another demagogue.
1
The short speech Biden gave after he won South Carolina was the best one by any of the candidates this primary season, all other things aside. The South Carolina growth in turnout was massive compared to Iowa, New Hampshire, and Nevada, and Biden gets the credit for that.
7
I will vote anyone who is nominated, though my personal preference in order is Elizabeth Warren, Mike Bloomberg, Bernie Sanders, Pete Buttigieg/Amy Klobuchar followed by Joe Biden.
I am not sure Biden was as outstanding a Vice President to warrant any credit on that score. While he is a good and decent person, at this time, he comes across are the oldest in the field and commits too many gaffes. While Trump can win with gaffes and all, I doubt the democratic voters would give Biden the same benefit. In essence, I don't see him as inspiring (Sanders, Warren) or as capable a leader (Bloomberg) as my top 3 choices, who could defeat Trump.
About the black vote, I find the irony dripping that the media assumes the black voters would stay home if Sanders is the nominee while berating Bernie supporters for not getting behind eventual nominee. I give more credit to black voters than the media, based on the evidence of what happened in Alabama special elections for the senate seat vacated by Jeff Sessions. I doubt they would be lackadaisical in their electoral protest against the white supremacist in chief.
2
Trump is the best thing that's ever happened to Israel...Maybe Biden is the next best? That's all that matters now, and this is precisely why Bernie is being demonized.
6
@Karekin so Israel that can’t even elect its own government is pulling the strings in the US? A textbook example of the lunacy of left-wing antisemitism. Perhaps you should ask Jeremy Corbyn how well the combination of antisemitic conspiracy theories and outdated socialism worked out for him. I don’t want a BDS supporter and Israel-hater in the White House. Do you have a problem with it?
1
What's next is that Joe Biden wakes up when he finds out that the demographics of South Carolina are like his home voting district (because many there are from there) but is in no way representative of the entire country. Me thinks Joe Biden should have been aware of that by now, but maybe that's why his nick is Uncle Joe.
4
@LHP
Sorry. But the same can be said of Sanders, who up until now has stuck exclusively with his tested demographic pool of supporters.
What South Carolina should have taught him is that after 2016, he's done nothing to garner more support among moderates and Black voters.
And by the time Trump and Republicans weigh in, his "nick" won't be a kind one.
3
CONGRATS TO Joe Biden! I'm afraid, however, that his organization is AWOL for Super Tuesday. One of his locations was described as having more tables than volunteers. I guess the only thing that might remotely help would be for Mike Bloomberg to throw his support to Biden, since Mike's got the money to run massive ads for 3 days. Lacking that, I'm afraid that the chances of Joe Biden's success on Super Tuesday are looking, well, chancy.
7
The Joe Biden we see in the debates is a fast talking mechanical head-bound being who often stumbles or rambles seemingly incoherently. I become very concerned when I know this is a person who has lived and suffered a lot of his life; having grown up suffering a stutter and overcoming it, lost his first wife and a child in an auto accident decades ago, lost a son to addiction, and has risen above it. Has he learned anything? WHERE is that Joe Biden? Instead we get the mechanical plastic babbler. Joe, THIS PERSONA DOES NOT WORK. Get out of your head and speak from your heart. You are not the tough guy of your fabricated persona; that's easy to see. When you come across flat and a phony, that's what you attract.
7
Bernie, with the messiah complex, the paranoid rants and the conspiracy theories (Russian bots, not his supporters are saying mean things) is morphing more and more into Trump.
Soon he will have an alien orange tint. And he is going to lead the democratic party, which he is not even a member of, to ruin.
And while we're at, where are his post heart-attack health records? How Trumpian to simply lie about sharing them.
14
Agree completely. Bernie and Trump are essentially angry old men separated at birth.
5
I'm afraid it's Sanders or bust, democrats. Biden is too old.
9
@Jim Anderson
And I'm afraid it's bust .
5
@Jim Anderson
Biden is 77. Sanders is 78 and has had a heart attack.
Who's too old?
8
None of the these candidates can get broad support within the Democratic Party. Sanders has the uncompromising hardcore left plus many Hispanics. Warren has the left with some flexibility and many suburban women. Bloomberg has the economically conservative Democrats who are pro-Wall Street. Biden has the black vote and white Democrats nostalgic for the days of Bill Clinton and Barack Obama. The mayor from South Bend and Klobuchar have many of the more highly educated white voters. It all adds up to a brokered convention which means even people who aren't candidates such as Michelle Obama, Hillary Clinton, and Sherrod Brown can't be entirely counted out.
3
@Bob
To draft Michelle, Clinton, or Brown at a brokered convention would rightfully be fatal to the party. A huge slap in the face to all candidates, volunteers, and donors who worked worked their tails off and gave what they could. I have no faith or trust in the party whatsoever, but even I don't think they could possibly be that dumb.
Scratch that, the Intercept shows that at least some of them can.
3
Biden has a pulse. At least until Super Tuesday. At least there's still hope to save this country from four more years of the vicious, evil and destructive kakistocracy of Trump and his parasites as well as the certain doom of a Sanders candidacy. Will who's left of any wisdom to save our democracy have the common sense to save it? Never underestimate the foolishness of the American voter to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
5
It is impossible to change your habit, especially after seven and a half decades of living. Biden should remember what sank his first presidential bid: an act of plagiarism. A loose mouth that cannot stop fibbing. However, why are the Democrats so harsh on the one who overstates his case, while the Republican maintain their unshakable faith on a pathological lier and race baiter? Why two universes?
4
We can count on the corrupt dark money super pack backed Democratic mafia political machine, with all their super corrupt delegates and Perez to interfere with our democracy more than Putin and Russia if Bernie win the delegate race
7
Thank you Michelle, but whom should I vote for in Tuesday's California primary? I am a liberal. I see what happened in Cuba and Venezuela and so many other places. Contrary to what Bernie says, democratic socialism did not work in Cuba, Venezuela, or any other place that I know of. Whom should I vote for in the California primary , Mike or Joe? Please advise.
7
@David GA (probably Joe B) voter here. It's all a poker game to me with everyday a surprising turn. I wanted Liz to be more successful, but it isn't going well and present calculations are based simply on how to keep Sanders out of the game.
If Bernie really said democratic socialism "worked" in Cuba or Venezuela, that is a disingenuous premise to me. I don't think a dictatorial Chavez or Castro totalitarian govt are at all a fair telling of what democratic socialism is (I would use EU countries as examples, setting aside the argument if their models could happen for the US)
GOP voters in many states have apparently been voting for Bernie where the rules allow them to participate. Consider that? Sorry I'm not Michelle but I think you should vote for Joe. Mike? Notachance IMO
3
Easy: Joe, yes he’s road-weary and long in the tooth, but he has the goods to get us out of Trump’s Reign of Error!
3
When Democrats start winning southern states, I'll pay more attention to these states in the primaries. Only around 500,000 democrats voted in South Carolina total. In 2016, 1.1 million voted for Trump. Tell me, why is this state so important? The Democrats will lose it in 2020. Around 800,000 voted for Hillary. It looks like Democratic turnout was very poor for this primary overall, a bad sign.
3
Joe Biden needed this and Super Tuesday will show if it was enough or not, but Biden must do better in the debates. I realize the format is terrible especially for a person like Biden who appears to not respond effectively in a rapid fire debate, but is that reason enough not to vote for him as president? I don’t want a president that makes rapid fire, shoot from the hip decisions. We already have one of those.
It’s been said before that the qualities it takes to win the candidacy are not necessarily the qualities it takes to be a good president. People need to look past the debates and decide who they want to run this country going forward. For a brief time I thought that Bloomberg would have been the best bet to beat Trump that is until I watched both debates and it’s not him.
It’s time for some of the candidates to drop out and put their support behind one of the candidates, preferably Biden. The Democrats need to go into the convection united and strong because the presidential run against Trump will be the lowest and dirtiest this country has ever seen. I also believe that Biden can bring over the Republican voters that are very unhappy with Trump, but are not ready for a Sanders revolution.
4
A good victory for Joe Biden in South Carolina.
But he has only one chance to overtake Bernie, and it’s mostly beyond his control: Both Buttigieg and Klobuchar need the stop their campaigns NOW, and then Biden needs to publicly announce that he has selected one of them as his running mate. And this needs to happen BEFORE Super Tuesday.
All of the over-70 candidates cannot be expected to survive the rigors of being a thoughtful, responsible President beyond the first 4-year term of office. So whether we’re rooting for Bernie, Biden or Bloomberg, it is imperative that the Democratic nominee choose a running mate who can grow and step into the role. And I think either Buttigieg and Klobuchar would make an excellent VP, but they must step out of the race now.
5
I'm so sorry Tom Steyer dropped out of the race. His environment-Climate Change proposals were the most important issues for me, don't think he was given time in debates to state his programs. He was my man and now sadly he's left the race.
2
@Beverly Kronquest
Props to Steyer for exiting with class and grace, even when he obviously had the money to keep going. Unlike Bloomberg, who says he's in it till the end.
2
It appears to me that in a contest between Biden and Bernie, Biden will be undercut by the fact that he lacks his own real constituency. His candidacy is validated not by a powerful constituency of his own, but his relationship with Obama and his presidency. His big victory in South Carolina was not reflective of his appeal to the black community but rather on the endorsement of a James Cleburne. Essentially he is running on fumes.
8
Biden may not last out the week, unfortunately. If he can't win Texas to offset California and Massachussetts, he may be too far behind to catch up later.
And so Democrats will head to the November election with a deeply flawed candidate the Republicans have always wanted, and actively cultivated, to face.
Then it may be too late and too far to go for the super delegates to pitch in and save the nation from another four years of Trump.
And so, the Democrats will nominate a candidate who led one bill, only one, in his 16 years in the House of Representatives--a bill that renamed a post office.
And a man who served for two terms as vice president, and 37 years in the Senate will be sent out to pasture.
Democrats are going to get the government they deserve.
5
@Dennis
Joe is not going to carry California or Mass, in the primary. Against Trump alone, maybe, as a harbor of last resort.
1
So, Joe Biden is on the same track to the presidency as Hillary. Long time neocons that are super supportive of corporations and who get a boost from democrats in SC. I am sure Biden will be just as successful as Hillary.
7
@Chris
You seem to forget that Hillary won by 3+ million more popular votes.
If Biden goes down because of the Electoral College, the same fate may await Sanders or any other Democratic candidate.
That means 4 more years of Trump.
Be careful what you wish for.
7
One or more of the leaders will likely be deceased by 2028.
The VP choice is everything. It's possible for a 180 degree reversal with a change in leaders. . That matter needs serious discussion.
8
@Lawrence Alexandria Ocasio Cortez will be 35 on October 13, 2024, making her a week past the age threshold when she's elected President or Vice-President in November.
1
Even if all of the other obvious warnings were missed the fact that the media and much of the Democratic establishment is so furiously trying to prop up Biden tells you there is a serious problem with his viability as a candidate. Attempting to anoint such a mediocrity and then threatening to force him upon the people, whatever the will of primary voters, is a kamikaze mission not a winning strategy.
13
"Uniting America" means running as fast as our "moderate" feet will take us to the furthest reaches of the spectrum on the right to make nice with a party that has embraced white nationalism, accepted corruption as a means to an end, cheered at the sight of brown children in cages, cheered at the idea of shooting civilians at the border. Let's all get along, as long as liberals know their place, as second class citizens to the "real" Americans, the "angry" entitled minority waiting impatiently for one-party rule. Let's heal and unite.
5
The Democrat’s are going to waste millions trying to decide on the “One Person” who will beat Trump in the upcoming debates. They should take a deep breath and decide on the future of our Country first. Will it be a Country based on “The Rule of Law” or the “Rule of Money”? Assuming the “Rule of Law” is chosen. Then the theme for the election could be based solely on “Honesty and Empathy”. Presently any of the surviving Candidates going into Super Tuesday could win on that Theme whether or not if they are “Progressive” or “Cautious” Democrats.
The upcoming election will be determined by TV, Print, and Facebook ads along with Fact Checking. Fact Checking the honesty of TV and Print policies are generally known. However Facebook has already dismissed Fact Checking Political Ads. Someone or Some Group has to fill that void. Hopefully the Democrats will make it their #1 Priority and have the financing to do it. Some of the TV Networks are very close to perfecting “Manipulation of the Masses”.
2
My heart is with Joe. Maybe it is not too late.
6
Hillary 2016 = Biden 2020
Flawed candidates with no vision for the future, losers.
14
NEWS FLASH: If Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren were to nationalize the combined $7.5 trillion dollar wealth/value of America's 621 billionaires and Facebook, Amazon, Apple, Netflix and Google (FAANG) and cash it in to pay down the U.S. debt the U.S. will still have a $15.5 trillion dollar debt.
With Sanders' and Warren's trillions upon trillions of new social spending programs, Americans deserve to know how they will avoid bankrupting the U.S. economy as Hugo Chavez and Nicholai Maduro bankrupted the oil rich economy of Venezuela with their social spending programs.
Dump Trump, vote for Amy Klobuchar.
4
If Biden were tough and if he ever had Obama's back he would have proven it by pounding on Mitch McConnell's door until the senate voted on the Merrick Garland supreme court nomination.
But Biden not tough. He only pretends to be by pointing his finger in people's faces and calling his supporters stupid names. Anyone can act tough to their own audience.
He's always caved when it mattered.
9
Everyone has their limits and as a former educator I cannot suppory a serial plagiarizer in the primaries. There are better options.
4
I like Biden as a person and I most definitely am NOT a supporter of Sanders (or Warren, heaven forbid) but I just heard him on CNN talking about the Coronavirus. "I respect Vice President Pence being in charge of managing the pandemic but why did it take so long to get started?" Look, there's NOTHING to "respect" about Pence. I appreciate that Biden wants to show he can be bipartisan and we DO need a degree of bipartisanship in order to survive and get anything done HOWEVER we have to draw the lane SOMEWHERE. No, Joe, I do NOT "respect Vice President Pence" in ANY way. "President Trump blaming Democrats for the Coronavirus, is he out of his mind?" YES, Joe, he IS. No reason to ask a rhetorical question. Yes, I'm glad to lower the tenor of the rhetoric but be careful in going too far in pursuit of consensus. You can work with Republicans BUT you have to draw the line with the Trump administration and their gangster-tactics.
3
Biden needs to do what most of the candidates have not been doing. Comparing and contrasting Sanders versus Trump. Sanders the Revolutionary disrupter, versus Trump the destructive disrupter.
Making the case for himself, making a case for the Democrats in general, why he and the other Dems running this year are the fixes needed in 2020+. All while never failing to point out the sins and failures of Trump and Company. Never let the public forget the damages being done by this Admin.
AND - finally start talking about the Courts! Talking about how the Repubs (McConnell and the Federalists) are literally taking control of the Courts, and how that needs to be stopped dead in its tracks and reversed.
There's a balancing act needed by the Dems, the Presidential candidate, as well those down ticket. Presenting a vision for the Next Act, for where the nation needs to head - all while going straight at Trump, and never wavering in pointing to his sins, and those being committed by those around him. Barr and Pompeo to start...working thru all the Depts and Agencies, their heads, the ruination they and Trump are bringing down, and by default everything the US touches.
This is an Act the Dems are not very good at. The Repubs never need to be so expansive in their rhetoric. They can hit on a few tropes, and move on. Dems need to be expansive, speak to diversity and progressive goals, all while focusing the hardest on what can be done, should be done.
Messaging is the Dem Achilles.
1
With Coronavirus circulating, how enthusiastic will voter turnout be if people are thinking about avoiding crowds at the polling places? Which party benefits from those fears? Probably the Republicans because they are informed the disease is a hoax so not to fear it.
3
This was his first primary victory in over 30 years of failed candidacies, and this is after he was completely annihilated in the first several states. And now, all he has to do is shine on Super Tuesday where the left-leaning candidate consolidates all of the left support, and the moderate vote is divided 5 ways.
Good luck to Joe, but maybe his Pyrrhic victory in terms of betting everything on a state whose constituents are conservative Democrats will allow him to solicit more donations from the credit card and healthcare companies that love him so much.
7
Biden would bring calm and decency to the Presidency again. Revolutionary and socialistic ideas seem very attractive at the moment. But divisiveness we can do without. Socialism and extreme politics will not win the presidency. Pragmatism, bringing people together can. And most important is the factor of who can beat Trump. Biden can and Sanders cannot. More groups of the demographic will vote Biden than the current socialist of the rich. And only a resounding win can do that to overthrow the current dictator.
6
One under-appreciated factor gives Biden an advantage over Trump that none of the other candidates have. Trump’s main argument for re-election—really his only argument—is the strength of the economy. Biden is the only candidate who can say to Trump: “You didn’t build that—I did.” And he would be telling the truth. The current economic expansion is the result of decisions the Obama-Biden administration made, not decisions Trump has made. With some good script writing and practiced punchlines, Biden can flip the economic argument on Trump.
8
@fbraconi. The alleged strength of the economy is the stock market which benefits the investor class, those folks who live off of investments as opposed to wages. The market has been propped up by the fed policies so I am not sure what Biden can take credit for
3
Realistically left
Sanders
Biden
Warren
Bloomberg
2 Progressives 2 Moderates
They need to coalesce because cross teaming up is at hand.
Sanders/Warren
Biden/Warren
Warren/Bloomberg
The balance act will fortify
Mondale, excuse me, Biden, cleaned up in South Carolina. Wonderful.
I can’t wait to hold my nose again in November and wake up the next day to the misery of a Trump second term.
5
Now's the time for Liz, Amy, Pete and the ultimate spoiler-Bloomberg to get out. If they really believe what they have been saying that the important thing is to get rid of Trump then get out-and put your support behind Biden. There is no way they will win the nomination and NO WAY Bernie can beat Trump, but Biden can and will!!
11
It would be amazing if this doesn't wind up in a brokered convention. The leading candidate is mainly supported by people who believe the center-left Democrats are worse than the Republicans because although both follow their corporate masters the Republicans don't even pretend to care about the welfare of the people while the center-left Democrats do pretend and therefore are even more dangerous. Biden is what is left from the Clinton and Obama glory years and he is milking that for all it is worth. Bloomberg has no real reason to stay in but if he does all the more reason to believe this will be a brokered convention. The other candidates except for Gabbard all have quite a few supporters and probably have concluded that their best chance is staying in and getting support from the super delegates to stop Sanders after the first round of voting.
5
Trump is the bully that takes your lunch money...Joe is the uncle who hugs you and gives you more. Next? Hopefully, not Tim Kaine.
1
Just a sidebar for the journalists who enjoy sandbagging Bernie Sanders for quotes he made 40 and 50 years ago.
If you're going to quote 1970's and 1980's Bernie, don't forget to quote 1960's and 1980's Joe Biden.
Biden plagiarized a law review article for a paper he wrote in his first year at law school in the 1960's.
During his failed 1988 run, Joe Biden plagiarized entire portions of a speech by United Kingdom Labour MP and Margaret Thatcher challenger Neil Kinnock. During an event at the Iowa State Fair, Biden mimicked entire portions of Kinnock's speech from earlier in the year.
And then, of course, two weeks ago, Joe Biden said he was arrested in South Africa even though he wasn't arrested.
And journalists also seem to forget that Joe Biden is a former Senator from Delaware, the company state where Corporate America Inc. goes to hide in secrecy.
Biden, “the senator from MBNA”, has always stood up for Delaware's huge credit card companies and he helped ensure that bankruptcy laws favored credit card companies, not consumers.
Joe Biden, whose state is home to student lenders like Sallie Mae and Navient, cast vote after vote to make student loan debt as hard to escape as credit card debt.
Delaware has long been known as “the Luxembourg of the United States”, an American tax haven that corporate tax evaders adore.
Joe Biden, the Delaware Senator, helped Corporate America to work against average Americans, not for them.
How about some balanced reporting on Biden ?
181
@Socrates I agree there's not much value in looking at what people said decades ago for any candidate.
But Sanders, post-heart attack declared people have a right to know about a candidates' health and that he would release his health records and then reneged on it.
That is a much more serious and current lie, and it's quite possible Bernie knows he is quite sick. The democrats have been reluctant to call him on it, because they don't want to alienate his supporters. But Trump is going to paint him as having one foot i the grave, and for all we know, the Orange menace will be right.
14
@Socrates In his 16 years in the House, Bernie led one bill and only one bill, to rename a post office.
There is a record that inspires confidence to get a spate of super costly programs through Congress, especially when even many congressional Democrats oppose them.
12
@Socrates And there is scant evidence that he used his (so he brags) vaunted ability to work with Republicans during the Obama years to dislodge legislation, Cabinet appointments or court appointments from McConnell's cold dead hands.
6
Still don't get why the Joe Biden con is effective with the African American community. Crime bill, drug policy, mass incarceration, draconian welfare reform, his early stance on busing, bankruptcy "reform," coziness with banksters, Anita Hill...all seems anathema. I fully understand these aren't the only issues that matter - to anyone - but they seem central to consideration.
10
Biden is actually the weakest candidate against Trump, because he's such a lousy debate performer, so Trump would chop him to pieces every excruciating time. By far the best potential fighter against Trump on TV would be Bernie, who would fight just as no-holds-barred as Trump and, for the first time in Trump's history, call him a liar, an incompetent fool, etc., etc., right on live TV. That is the only thing that can beat Trump, savage attacks. If Biden just stands there looking 85, as usual, he'd be dead meat.
10
Unless something changes between now and Tuesday, I have changed from voting for Klobuchar and will now vote for Biden. I must say I am disappointed to do so, we are long overdue for a woman president and Klobuchar is more than qualified. A male leader in South Carolina told everyone who to vote for, gave his endorsement... Before that the democratic leadership let a former republican buy his way in bypassing most of the debates and primaries, Sanders isn't even a real democrat... There will be lots of people who sit the election out and will let Trump win. I'm not liking the system right now and blaming the DNC leadership for bad leadership...
2
The fact that corporate news media and the DNC under Tom Perez are trying to force a Biden nomination on Democratic voters means that they have either learned nothing from their 2016 debacle or they are intentionally trying to lose...
American voters don’t want Biden — they want Bernie. If the DNC and Democratic Party keeps pushing for Biden then they will see a high enough percentage of defectors to third-party votes that they will lose the general election. Again. Bernie supporters (and other moderate voters who want an FDR America) compromised in 2016, but are tired of the status quo corporate democrats who do nothing but give republicans everything. Bernie supporters won’t compromise again. The Democratic Party needs to accept that reality and throw their support behind Bernie and Warren, the candidates voters want, or they will lose again.
8
@Misplaced Modifier
know what ? Bernie will have to use Trump's riff
" it's all rigged , folks "
3
@Misplaced Modifier The only people who want Bernie are the Gen Z people. They haven't experienced enough life yet to know the Bernie's 1tn dollar plan, which there are many that cost that much, will never pass. At best Bernie will be a grouchy, lame duck for four years...
6
@Missy Your statement does not ring true. Gen Z? Bernie has broad support among all age (and race, sex) groups, from Millennials to Gen X to Boomers because he has broad support among the largest taxpayer groups -- middle- and working-class voters.
3
"Former Vice President Joe Biden said Sunday he would contest the presidential primary nomination at the Democratic convention if Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) is leading in delegates without securing a majority." The Hill 3-1-20
Biden doesn't have the ground work, the excited base, the money--he should be grateful for South Carolina, zip it and work hard for Democrats. We don't need to hear how he plans to ruin the party.....
12
In this time of great uncertainty and fear over the new virus and how it will impact our lives more than ever we need a candidate that is experienced and moderate to restore confidence in our country's leadership. Biden, for all his faults, is our best hope. If he fails to secure this nomination, we are in for another four years of Trump & company. Bloomberg and Sanders are not going to save us from Trump's tyranny.
7
Does anyone believe that SC is a true representation of the democrats in America. I know it is the first contest with significant number of blacks, but it is also a state that almost always goes red. So, should we care much about what happens there? Or the rest of the historically red southern states? They are not voting for any Dem for president. But if a candidate cannot win in a swing state or state like AZ or Texas, where Trump is not popular, should they be the nominee? If Biden does not win anywhere but the south, is he the best nominee for the Dems? What if he does not win in Pennsylvania or Minnesota or Michigan? So, please do not try to sell this nonsense that a win in SC has any more significance than a win in NH or anywhere near as much importance as a win in a potential swing state.
8
@CA Dreamer
No reason to downplay South Carolina simply because it has fewer delegates than CA. or because the African-American vote is of more significance there than in other states.
ALL votes matter.
And the only "nonsense" here is unfortunately, yours.
5
All of this was pretty much predicted—the primary process is flawed. Only the electoral college is worse it seems. Hopefully this gets down to Biden and Sanders quickly and the nomination doesn’t go to Bernie due to the flaws. If Sanders wins it fair and square, fine. But Sanders seems eager to hide his health records and take advantage of the flawed system and take the nomination with a simple majority delegate count. That will taint is candidacy if it happens.
3
@Mike Voelk
" taint "
Bernie has been working hard since '16 while JB has been declared a front-runner with nothing but general name recognition poll leading .
now he ( Bernie ) has to be WAAAY out front to be viable ?
3
If Biden becomes the candidate in a Brokered convention, decided by those politic insiders who are classified as super delegates, Trump's victory will be assured. Sander's supporters will be outraged. They will feel they are experiencing the same attempt by the DNC and other insiders to prevent Sanders nomination in 2016. Biden may claim he does but he doesn't have any solution to the corona virus. What are the risk now? Approximately 87,000 have been diagnosed as infected. That is out of 7.1 billion people. The death tole is about 2200. The CDC estimates that the flu causes between 9-45 million to be infected, just in the U.S.
The CDC says about 56,000 die annually. -. The death rate from the flu is about 2%. And, we have a vaccine. According to the NYT n the rate for the corona virus is 1.4 or even lower. It is reasonable that scientist work through Pence to coordinate information. But The efforts to deal with the virus are not isolated here. All over the world, scientist are working on this virus. We have no authority over their reports. So Biden doesn't offer anything new. We actually have drugs that won't cure but lessen the symptoms and time to recover. They are being tested now. Trump is right to say his opponents are trying to politicize this.
3
This win for Joe Biden in South Carolina is not only a boost to his campaign and a victory for moderate Democrats -- it's also a reminder to the candidates that the Black vote should not be taken lightly.
In the past months several of them have made quick visits and staged appeals to a community that is still overwhelmingly overlooked until it comes to Election Day, thinking that the sudden exposure and a fistful of dollars would buy them immediate access -- but that's not the way it works.
Black folks have a good memory when it comes to remembering who has walked the walk and who just talks the talk and the turnout in South Carolina proves it.
This is also the state that failed to come through for Sanders in 2016, but somehow in that time he never changed his course enough to rectify it.
This will matter in the end because there are still enough moderate voices out there that need to be counted and the race is just getting started.
It's not over yet.
4
Progressives have to get more progressives elected to Congress. Otherwise this reform campaign has no chance.
Biden builds a coalition across the center left, center right and some progressives. That is the type of leader needed for now. The Senate is not flipping, the House lead is thin and over half the US states are under conservative control.
I wish progressives would get more state governors and congresspeople do they could come to these Presidential elections with a track record of implementation.
4
What's next?
Money money money money,
Money money money money,
Money money money makes the word go round.
Cabaret
If it don't start flowin,Joe be goinn
3
Biden AND Warren, for the WIN.
That is all.
6
Daddy & Mommy. Might be exactly what we need.
2
Here we go again: Another pro corporate, right-leaning, article from the self-professed 'objective' media-industrial complex, who are disproportionately cut from the same whole cloth of eastern-establishment schools and similar cultural backgrounds, lauding the minor-league win of a center-right blue-collar democrat - by definition and design with small 'd' - !
Biden has always been something of a three-dollar bill throughout his so-called political career, clinging to the coattails of others, to the point of nausea!
Enough of the DCCC, triangulating, establishment candidate's approach of compromise which has netted us huge steps backwards, into the Repubs definition of the 1950's - white, religious, corporate, anti-science / climate change, anti women / minorities / immigrant!!
4
@Jack Jack, did you go to school with my mother? She was a Soviet dissident. Recently I excavated her high-school textbooks of Marxism-Leninism and you sound just like them (including the penchant for hyphens and exclamation points). Of course, Bernie also sounds just like the tired Soviet propaganda that failed to prevent the collapse of the socialist paradise he would so love to recreate on the American soil. On the other hand, he is supported by Russian trolls and Putin, being a KGB man, probably still remembers his old playbook. So what is it, Comrade?
2
Biden should say the following and keep repeating it. “First he tells you how you will get your healthcare. Now he tells you how much money you can earn. Bernie certainly has a lot of opinions on how you should live your life.”
7
@Queenie
you really think he can remember all that ?
6
The results of Super Tuesday will provide more data on which the various claims about various candidates can either be affirmed for refuted.
For example, does or does not Sanders do well in the suburbs? Important, because the suburban vote was in large part responsible for the Nov 2018 Blue Wave that delivered House Democratic majority.
How is the African American vote and Hispanic vote distributed among the candidates?
Does or does not Sanders bring in previous non-voters?
Does or does not Bloomberg bring in the support of independents and /or persuadable Republicans?
How do the various candidates perform in states in which the Senate race is in play?
From reading the comments on the NYTs, a lot of claims about the above (and others) have been made. I would like to see the actual data about these from the Super Tuesday vote. Hopefully the Times will provide that break down of the vote distribution.
As for my politics, on policies I am a progressive. As a voter, I am a pragmatist. The number one goal for me is to vote DJT out of office. Given that the Electoral Colleges dictates that any of the candidates have only a narrow path for an EC victory, my sense is that for a Democrat to win, it will require a coalition among what otherwise might be disparate groups. So if the data described above is provided, I will look at it for which candidate is most effective at putting together a coalition.
93
@Voter Like 2016, this election will be won or lost with Rust Belt voters, not suburbanites. Hillary beat Trump in the suburbs--to no avail. Biden is absurdly overrated in terms of his voter appeal with Rust Belt workers. Bernie's the one who beat Trump soundly in the 2016 Rust Belt exit polls. The one to nominate is the Dem who wins Michigan. Never forget that the fat cats who own and operate the Democratic Party are doing all they can to stop Bernie because their wallets are fine with losing to Trump. Anything to stop the one threat to our oligarchy: Bernie.
15
Voter, congratulations!
Yours is the most thoughtful, balanced, careful, and wise comment today.
You've dispassionately — and skillfully — laid out the realities and the need to look carefully at Super Tuesday's voting data.
I do hope that future exit polling analyses and reports include not just what percentage of certain demographic groups voted for a candidate, but a portrait of that candidate's voters look like!
That's a much different thing. While Sanders has great appeal among young, very liberal, and Latino voters, *most* of his voters are neither young, nor very liberal, nor Latino.
To bring this point home. Just because most billionaires are white men does not mean that most white men are billionaires. Just because seniors favor Biden, e.g., does not mean that most of Biden's supporters are seniors. Just because most young progressives favor Sanders does not mean that most of his supporters are young and progressive. There simply aren't enough of them.
To conclude. The percentage of minority, middle-aged, or moderate voters that supported a candidate is NOT the same thing as the percentage of their supporters that are minority, middle-aged, or moderate.
8
@Voter Excellent post. I have been a Warren supporter, but I'm with you on the pragmatism. Getting rid of DJT is my priority. No way will I vote by mail in advance, because I want to see this type of up-to-date information.
This is far more than looking at a single number like who is ahead in the polls, or the shifting metric of who is likely to beat Trump when there is no Republican campaigning against that person yet.
Single polls can be misleading, as we saw in 2016.
Right now I cast my vote for more of this kind of information from the news, especially the NYT.
11
The results of South Carolina may help moderates have hope. Now Biden and Bloomberg will be competing for the same votes as Sanders and Warren will for theirs. I think Trump would rather run against Sanders or Warren in order to play American's fear of communism than to run against Biden who will give new life at the Ukrainian affair and his impeachment.
At the end of the day, it might be Bloomberg the one ousting Trump by funding the Democratic candidate, if he is good at keeping his word.
42
@Aurace Rengifo
I think Trump would prefer to run against Biden or Bloomberg where he can once again run of false populism. He knows he is powerless against Sanders. Red baiting will not work in 2020 and he has nothing else. Sanders will point out that everything Trump promised has been turned to its opposite and that rather than "draining the swamp" he has empowered it. He will easily be able t point out Trump's threats to public health, Social Security and climate destruction. He will publicly eviscerate Trump and get the support of close to half of those who voted for Trump in 2016.
14
Here’s the deal as Biden would say: I was a Sanders supporter but his staff started to remind me of the Red Brigade cadres of Mao’s Cultural Revolution with their holier than thou doctrinaire insistence on ideological purity and their youthful certitude about all political issues-an easy reach when your parents sent you to Harvard etc. (See e.g., his campaign manager’s tweet “hard no” to any support from Bloomberg in general election). Conversely, Biden is clearly a decent humble person whose life-marred as it has been by multiple tragedies and political missteps-understands that not everything is black and white and not everyone who disagrees with you is an enemy to be denigrated and discarded. If Bernie wins the nomination, I will enthusiastically support him against Trump, while they sit on the sidelines in a Trump/Biden race and plot the next revolution and damage Biden’s chances of victory a la Ralph Nadar in 2000.
35
@Shelly Kulwin I think everyone knows we'll have a brokered convention, with no one arriving in Milwaukee with enough delegates. In that scenario anything can happen. I'm sure everyone believes they would be the perfect compromise candidate so why not stay in as long as possible. Sanders has contempt for the Democratic establishment & intends to eviscerate them once elected. The DNC will not co-operate in their own demise. They will try to undermine his campaign in ways both large & small as they did in 2016. Every candidate is banking on this. They're also betting that moderate suburban voters will not vote for Democratic Socialism. That point can't be emphasized enough. If this election is about kitchen table issues: jobs & affordable education there's no way we lose. If it's about Medicare for All & more illegal immigration there's no way we win. Sanders wants to provide free health care for illegal immigrants, which would be paid for by raising taxes on middle-class Americans. This is the only issue that would compel independent swing voters to hold their nose & vote for Trump again. If Sanders was a moderate you would see people dropping out right & left after Super Tuesday. The key question raised but not answered in this piece is: Do the majority of Dems want a revolution? Certainly, if you're a Bernie supporter the answer would be yes. But the last night's results seem to say mainstream Democratic voters don't want to take that risk given the stakes in this election.
18
In order to win the presidency the Democrats are going to need a coalition made up of seniors, workers, women and young voters of all races. African Americans and Hispanic voters are key but they will also need to attract substantial numbers of white voters both those who are in comfortable circumstances and those who are not.
Thus far the only candidate who has put together a coalition that, judging from his support in Nevada, looks anything like that is Sanders. Importantly he has also shown that he can win in states that will be up for grabs in November.
Biden, as seen from South Carolina does very well with older African American voters. This is an important demographic for sure but one that is less monolithic outside the Deep South. Hillary Clinton romped in South Carolina but one of the groups that failed to show for her in the industrial Midwest were African Americans. No group of voters is monolithic. Black Auto workers are just as scared of their jobs going overseas as white factory workers. Biden’s long standing support for free trade may make him less viable in the Midwest.
Bernie needs to expand his appeal to older voters. Biden needs to get beyond “return to normalcy” and start speaking about how he envisions our future.
56
@Brooklyncowgirl Agree that for the Democrats to win, they need to form a coalition.
This article from the NYT that analyzed in more detail the vote data from NV show mixed results about the claims about Sanders and his coalition building ability when it comes to actual votes.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/24/us/politics/bernie-sanders-democratic-voters.html
I don't bring this up as an anti-Sanders argument. Simply a priority to evaluate the actual vote data.
2
@Brooklyncowgirl
A return to normalcy would have given us a Federal Court system that continued the expansion of rights rather than suppressing them.
A return to normalcy will give us reasonable gun control legislation.
A return to normalcy would have expanded the ACA.
A return to normalcy would have expanded the protection on the environment and would have expanded public lands.
A return to normalcy would have continued to reduce nuclear proliferation across the globe rather than expand them.
Bernie Sanders voted against gun control and against immigration reform. His unmerciful attacks on Hillary Clinton lead to a Court that will be dismantling hard fought rights for decades.
27
@HL
I do hope you realize that I was not saying that Biden would be anywhere near as bad as Trump. If he’s the Democratic nominee and the only thing standing between Trump and another term I will vote for him without hesitation, but I fear that the circumstances which led to the election of Donald Trump will not be alleviated by a Biden presidency.
Sanders and Warren point to ways that can get us out of a situation where the very rich control everything and everyone else fears that a bad medical diagnosis or a corporate takeover could put them out on the street. Joe Biden has been a good servant to the powers that be his entire career. That’s unlikely to change.
I hope that Biden can articulate a vision of the future that is as good or better than our past. If he does he should win but to be honest I haven’t heard anything from him to indicate that sort of vision.
4
Plus, he needs to have an idea! I do not hear any original thinking coming from the Biden camp. Sometimes it is, "I did this," which may or may not be more than half-true, or, "My pal Barack did that," which may or may not be a result of his direct action. One thing is sure, though, this is his third try at becoming President, and there is nothing new in terms of his public policy advocacy. If he should win the nomination, his fantasy about beating Trump might not be enough to get out the vote he will need to do so.
5
Biden likes to say that he can work with Republicans. Then why didn’t he get the Republicans to stop sabotaging everything Obama tried to do for our country when he was Obama’s vice-president? Biden is naive to think that Republicans are at all concerned with the good of the nation and would be willing to work with him for anything other than further enriching the rich.
237
even if Biden did plan on "further enriching the rich", as you baselessly charge, i would still enthusiastically vote for him in the primary, as he's the one Democratic candidate who matches up perfectly against Trump. Joe beats Trump comprehensively on both character and policy, whereas Bernie Sanders is a sitting duck for the kind of attacks that Trump & the GOP specialize in. The Sanders supporters are trying redecorate the house while the house is on fire. Biden will put the fire out.
15
@Mary
Republicans vote in midterm elections -- whether they like their candidate of not -- and Democrats don't so we lost the Senate and didn't have both houses of Congress like FDR so there was no need for Republicans to stop sabotaging everything Obama did.
Three NY Times opinion writers who are Republicans but hardly dogmatic party loyalists have been indicating for years now that they're willing to vote for a Democratic candidate, just not a Democratic Socialist, particularly not Sanders or Warren. (in their opinions, not necessarily mine)
2
It's an odd feat for Biden to win a decisive victory (in a state dems can't win in November) the same week he admitted to lying to black audiences for weeks about being arrested in South Africa and continued to give uncomfortable and at times bizarre rambling speeches to SC audiences. That doesn't seem to be something that can be repeated enough to win the nomination.
What happens now that Bloomberg is added to the mix with his endless money to expose Joe and the campaign moves into liberal states with lots of Hispanics that love Bernie and don't trust Joe should be very interesting.
136
Spot on.
7
@Chris
Hispanics that love Bernie?
Tell that to the Hispanics of Florida or even Puerto Rico.
Ain't gonna happen.
Bernie has been teleported from the sixties and is living on delusions.
Denial is not a winning strategy.
32
@Chris what happens now is Bernie’s lack of support among African Americans becomes even more apparent. To say nothing of his losses among Latinos.
7
The Democratic party is under threat of being taken over by a far left candidate who isn't even a Democrat. Sanders will never win the vote of centrist Democrats, independents, or reluctant Trump supporters. It is time to coalesce around a common sense modeate progressive. Amy Klobuchar and Pete Buttigieg are smart and have a great future, but they need to get out of the race now and endorse whoever can beat Sanders.
143
@Eduardo Bernie doesn’t need those votes if he turns out young people, POC and especially Latinos at the rate he is. A moderate will lose to Trump, plain and simple.
45
@Eduardo
Huh...we know Sanders does pull some reluctant Trump voters from the '16 primary.
Sanders currently leads amongst Indies.
https://morningconsult.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/Morning-Consult-Political-Intelligence-Weekly-Report_January-22-2020.pdf
Sanders leads amongst POC for Dems.
https://www.newsweek.com/bernie-sanders-leads-all-democratic-candidates-support-non-white-voters-new-polls-show-1486807
He'll get the progressives...so you're stipulating that centrist Dems. will sit home or vote Trump?! Yes?
Yet the latest battle ground state poll shows Sanders beating all Dems in Mich., Penn. and Wis.; and also beating Trump.
https://news.wisc.edu/battleground-state-poll-1/
So...are you just hunching here? Intuition? Anecdotal coffeeshop/bar buddies?
What cha got?
By the by...what's up with Texas?
https://www.usnews.com/news/elections/articles/2020-02-14/bernie-sanders-surges-in-texas-leads-among-democrats-poll
31
@Eduardo
The Democratic party has already been taken over. They're the Republican party of yesteryear, living off corporate bribes instead of the ideals of FDR, Kennedy and Johnson.
43
In 2016, Hillary Clinton won the South Carolina Democratic primary in by a landslide margin of more than 47%, receiving a larger percentage of the African American vote than Obama did in 2008. But in the general election Trump won South Carolina by a landslide margin of 54.94 percent to Hillary’s 40.67 percent. South Carolina’s nine electoral votes went to Trump.
Joe Biden will continue to do well in Southern states with their large black voter populations, but these are red states that in November will give all their electoral votes to the Republican candidate. Do Democrats want to nominate the candidate who runs best in red states or the candidate who runs best in states they have a chance of winning in November.
279
Except for California, where the crush of candidates makes it possible no one other than Sanders will exceed the 15% minimum for delegates in CDs, the remaining candidates will pick up a hodgepodge of delegates across the Super Tuesday states. Klobuchar will limit Sanders in MN. Warren will accumulate delegates in MA.
And many big states such as Florida, Illinois, New York, New Jersey, Ohio, and Pennsylvania remain. Some are months away. The electorates in a number of them are not favorable to Sanders. Regardless of the money he throws at Florida, he’s not going to do well there. And even in New York, he’s in trouble. Remember Clinton crushed Bernie in NYC and the surrounding suburbs in 2016. The wide majority of votes here will probably go to Biden or Bloomberg in 2020.
If you can’t win a majority of Democrats in large diverse states like Florida and New York, that vote later in the primaries, your chances of success in the general election are muted.
11
Don't agree that Biden will do poorly in the crucial states of PA, MI, WI or OH. i think he is stronger in those
26
@JoeBiden And will get wiped out in them in the general.
8
Here's a suggestion to the Democrats that could diffuse the biggest problem they are having on health care, including Biden. Stop talking for or against Medicare-for-All, a devisive issue. Instead campaign to make Medicare, not the 'public option' voluntary for any age. Not a federal insurance alternative like the ACA, but just sign up and have largely free medical care if you want it.
I remember the cries that Medicare would bankrupt America when LBJ passed it. It didn't. The same has been said of Social Security for 75 years. It also hasn't. But we are Americans. If some want to pay their own way with or without insurance, let them. Both Soc. Sec. and Medicare are actually voluntary already for those old enough. Stop bickering about Mandatory Medicare and instead offer it to those who would like to join.
1
Great to see the candidate who can build coalition of voters snag a landslide last night. Bernie, while I like him, may actually scare a lot of moderate republicans into voting for DJT or moderate democrats to stay home. Bide. is the only viable candiafte who can build a coalition of Midwest working class white black coalition besides the majority of democrats. Biden Bernie ticket may be form a powerful coalition of progreesive blacks moderates working class whites that can deliver major states for the Dems. Also Biden Stacey Abrams could be a good choice, and there is a potential to deliver Georgia and even SC. Ability to build a COALITION is the key!
2
Let's be practical.
Trump will never win the majority of votes, heck, he may even fall behind last time when he lost by nearly 2.9 million votes. But he may just win the Electoral College if he can come close to what he did before, winning Michigan, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Florida, Ohio, and Iowa.
Those aren't majority black voter states, they are majority old white voter states, dominated by the last blast of my baby boomer demographic, and yes, with a lot of enthusiastic college kids.
But SC showed that it is possible to get out many black voters if they are encouraged to vote for an old white guy, encouraged by very experienced and trust black leaders like Jim Clyburn. And if Bernie, my pick, gets to be at the top of the ticket, the only way he gets past the Electoral College problem is with the help of not only people like Clyburn, but with the help of people like Biden, who might be able to sooth voters' worries over Bernie being the next Joseph Stalin, which is, I am sure, how Trump will run the ads.
Hugh
3
@Hugh Massengill they will all get behind the nominee, but it will be a tall order if it is Bernie.
In the Bernie/Biden matchup, I support Bernie. That said, I haven't drunk the Kool aid and Bernie has liabilities just like Biden has. At this point, if Democrats come together, we will defeat Trump. But there are too many recalcitrant people who go around the internet and say they won't vote for Biden, if Bernie loses, and won't vote for Bernie, if Biden loses. How are those Supreme Court justices working out for you? Your privilege has protected you so far, but Trump in his second administration means all bets are off.
4
This was a Tyler Perry style primary. A moment of jubilee, of hope, of ridiculously and otherwise implausible outcomes.
But like other Tyler Perry style moments, it was an extremely niche outlier. While older black women may be well regarded within the Democratic Party and across the United States, they’re an extremely small slice of the voting public, even within the Democratic Party.
While Biden galvanizes them and has their support, Sanders does well with the young, with Hispanics, and with dedicated progressives. Bloomberg does well with well heeled white moderates, while Pete, Amy, and Liz seem to be splitting the die-hard Hillary crew - the people who prefer a mix of technocracy and yuppie inflected identity politics.
While Sanders’ coalition is the largest within the Democratic tent, it’s still too small to defeat Trump and to boot it’s also the scariest to most independents and swing voters.
And thus the lie that diversity is strength. It never is and never has been. From Yugoslavia to Iraq to the Roman Empire to the modern Democratic Party - the more a group becomes dominated by disparate coalitions, the less cohesive it becomes.
As the modern Democratic Party crumbles, let this be a lesson to everyone else, about the truth of their main message that diversity is strength. It’s just not true. Turning the United States into a set of wildly disparate tribes and coalitions via continued mass immigration won’t work. It’ll just lead to Democratic style division.
3
Biden does have the best (probably the only) chance to win against Trump. But, I don't see this happening because I don't believe that voters will allow this to happen--Democratic voters, that is.
The reason? By comparison to Trump, Biden is dull, both in manner and in elucidating his policy ambitions. And he's a normal politician, not a compulsive liar, which would give media pundits and--admit it, most of the rest of us--much less to kvetch about.
1
With Coronavirus/CORVID, we are moving toward a major global crisis of both health and economics.
Trump is completely incompetent – things will continue to get worse.
But does anyone really believe that Sanders could deal with a crisis of world financial markets?
Biden, as a boring but reliable unifier, is looking better and better.
5
I don’t get it. Yes he totally won S.C. And yes, S.C. will vote for trump in the November election. How is this a win?? We need winners in the states that could take us back to checks and balances and out of authoritarianism... that’s not S.C.
2
One primary victory in 32 years makes Biden some kind of force. If he wasn’t trying to foil any attempt to champion working people by trying to beat the only candidate that does so, he’d gladly be on a train to DE.
1
Biden has the passion and decency; Bloomberg has the money and ads. Perhaps they should get together. Amy also has some good ideas and ability. United the moderate Democrats can win.
Bernie just lost Florida with his semi-defense of Fidel Castro.
Trump has shown his incompetence with the new virus and the negative impact on the economy strips Trump of his best argument for another four years as president.
2
It's hard to miss the point that the two candidates endorsed by the Times (Warren and Klobuchar) added together barely crossed the double-digit threshhold in South Carolina. While 49% of women voted for Biden, slightly higher than the 48% level of support he received from men. One can go on about the reasons for this, but it's hard to draw the conclusion that between the voters and the Times editorial board, that it's the voters who are out of touch.
2
Biden has to prove he can win in a non-Trump state. South Carolina is irrelevant to Democrats in the general. Don’t get your hopes up, it will make Tuesday less painful.
2
Joe Biden should talk to Stacey Abrams, to see if she would now agree to become his running mate. If she would agree, it would really help Biden in all the remaining primary states.
1
Biden supporters are now demanding that all other non-Socialist contenders fold their campaigns so that he alone can take on Bernie.
Considering that this is the first state that Biden has ever won in his career I find this offensive.
Steyer has dropped out. Others may do so as we get closer to the nomination. I doubt that Warren, Pete and Bloomberg will. Amy will find that she runs out of money.
We must run a two pronged campaign. Take out all the extremists. Trump and the Socialist must be removed ASAP.
The only person who can do this is Mike Bloomberg.
I went to a rally for Women for Mike yesterday in No. Virginia. To expect anyone to turn out at 8 am on a Saturday in DC is unheard of.
The place was packed. When Mike spoke the energy was amazing.
I have no doubt that he will leave a lot of naysayers wondering what happened on Super Tuesday.
It is all about getting delegates. It's a numbers game. Mike has 2,500 people working on this and will make it happen.
Yesterday Bernie Bros threw a rock into the window of his Vt office. Google vandalism bloomberg and you will find many such incidents. This is their response to the one who will take their Dear Leader down.
Watch him tonight at 7pm, EST, on CBS Sixty Minutes.
Mike will get it done.
2
I’m glad Biden was able to save face before Tuesday’s crushing defeat according to the polls which have been accurate so far, including about Biden winning this Republican state.
2
Listen up democrats (and the few independents or republicans reading this article) vote for who you need not who you want.
You did the opposite with Hillary and handed us the ego maniac demagogue Trump on a silver platter.
Yes Biden may be adjudged senile by a few doctors,(his VP could take over) prone to gaffes, not your boy but he consistently scores high or higher against Trump than any opponents especially in the swing states.
Bernie has the socialist tag just like Hillary had the identity/social engineering tag on her. One was fatal, another could be fatal.
Learn from history or be condemned to repeat its worst mistakes.
2
The left is done with status-quo shills for the rich like Biden. He won't make America one iota better for the rest of us in the 99% and everyone except the people in SC get that.
Bernie is going to crush it on Tuesday. That's what comes next. Then the egomaniacs like Biden, Bloombeg, et al. need to realize they're done and fall into line to get Bernie the win if they're serious about defeating Trump and making America better. I doubt they'll do that however. Because they don't really care about beating Trump, or you or me. They're only driven by ego and money. Precisely the reasons they don't deserve the nomination and will not get support from anyone whose actually on the left.
I'd rather see Trump and the GOP burn America to the ground than see another Biden or Bloomberg in office again.
Occupy Wall Street and the White House!
1
Keep it up! Your scary rhetoric is going to help us elect Biden.
4
The calls for other younger candidates--Warren, Klobuchar--to drop out are dangerous. Biden and Sanders are beyond the male life expectancy age. What if G-d forbid something happens to them between now and the convention? We need them to be back ups and then after the convention as vice presidential candidates.
Biden wins South Carolina according to CBS News due to the black vote.
(1) Black voters comprise among the highest percentage of poor American voters;
(2) Poor American voters lost the most amount of wealth under the Obama / Biden administration than under any administration since Herbert Hoover;
(3) The Clinton administration made it possible by abolishing Glass-Steagall;
(4) South Carolina has not voted for a Democratic presidential candidate in modern times;
(5) Black voters made the most economic gains in history under a Democratic Socialist President - Franklin Roosevelt.
So why are we not hearing these facts?
3
@Frank
mostly because of point ( 4 )
FDR didn't say he was a Socialist or socialist !!
Niche victory. He polled less than Jesse Jackson in 1988 in a monocultural majority state useless Democratic chances. Good luck in truly multiethnic California.
1
It appears that the US just isn’t ready for a woman to lead the country. Canada is no better. This isn’t even disillusioning. I realize I knew it already but hope springs eternal.
What this tells me is that despite the fact that there are some men who are enlightened and supportive in their understanding and actions, there is a majority of men who don’t want a leader who is woman. It has become one of the defining measures of sexism. Much of the time, men who feel and think this way are not misogynist. They just can’t imagine a woman having that kind of power.
How long, oh Lord? Lord. That is part of the problem. Since God is a male, no woman should have ultimate authority. After 71 years, I have no idea how to convince half the human race that until woman have true equality with men, we are all disadvantaged.
True words - when you are used to privilege, equality seems like oppression.
37
@MJM
I'm female, and you have to do a lot more than just wear the same kind of undies that I do to get my vote. Sanders is my first choice, but I would happily vote for Warren if she was well ahead of him. Kloubuchar, Harris Gillibrand, and especially Clinton, never. And just for the record, most of the other men who were in the race get a never too.
9
@MJM
We are ready for anyone, of any sex, to lead us.
Hillary won the popular vote in 2016. Don't forget that.
She is now warning us against voting Socialist for good reason.
Mike Bloomberg will get more and more delegates as this thing plays out.
He will become the nominee and make us all breathe a collective sigh of relief.
Tonight, watch him on Sixty minutes, CBS, 7pm EST.
3
@MJM
"...the US just isn't ready for a woman..."
Anyone who claims that we "...just aren't ready for (fill in the blank)..." clearly doesn't have a PhD in modern American history. And if you need examples, you don't either.
5
Most important is to keep your eyes on the real opponents - Trump and the Republicans.
Any of the Democratic candidates will sign any piece of progressive legislation that comes out of the House & Senate.
Positively support your favorite and then rally around the nominee with everything you've got.
Whether it's Bernie, Joe or Bloomberg, please keep your eyes on the ball - Vote Blue No Matter Who. They all have their faults, but they are all light years ahead of Trump and the Flat Earth Society.
8
Two things happen to Biden. He does poorly on Super Tuesday as he is low on money and out of time to promote himself. Then he learns that the black vote is overhyped and not enough to win on. You can lose without but you can’t win with all of it)
As for the rest of the Dems, we see see Gabbard, Klobuchar, Warren and Mayor Pete follow Steyer and drop out.
Then some ridiculous groveling trying to get support from the previously shed wannabes while three old whitened try to represent the identity politics diversity coalition.
Then we watch the DNC arrange a way to block Bernie. ( Remember: the Dems are the party of the people, but Super Delegates aren’t and they have the real power)
The circular firing squad continues. No one goes to the Democratic convention for fear of the Coronavirus.
Trump coasts to an easy EC win. (There is no popular vote).
2
Biden's campaign is based on the hope that Francis Fukuyama was right and the 1990s really were The End of History.
1
Turn out topped 500,00 compared to 370,000 in 2016.
There you have it - Get Out the Vote! That is the Democratic Party’s dire necessity. Get Out the Vote!
13
Aren't we all living in a dystopic world, Ms.Cottle? The reality is that 3 old white men in their late 70s are running in the Democratic primaries against Donald Trump, our unfit and ignorant president in his ranting 70s. How can democracy spin gold out of all that old straw? Biden says we are battling for the soul of the United States of America. Yes, big changes are afoot. Where do the black, brown, tan, Americans of color fit into this old white male leadership scenario? Are we rolling our eyes at a "Weekend with Bernie" redux? Time, not seers, will tell.
1
@Nan Socolow
Where do the black, brown, and tan Americans of color fit in? I dunno, ask, say, the CBC who backed Biden over the likes of Booker or Harris. Ask the Latinos who backed Sanders over Castro. And ask the many females who backed male candidates over other females.
Michael Bloomberg is a very pragmatic decent man. He has very good polling at his disposal. I suspect at the right time he will hand his organization and money to Biden. Klobuchar and Pete will be out either Monday or Wednesday.
Biden has been a horrible debater. His town hall meeting in SC and his speech last night were magnificent. Anyone painting Joe Biden as anything other than the decent, honorable man he is should be ashamed of themselves.
It's good to see the pundits who have been praising Warren's debate skills have been proven wrong. As she has gotten nastier she has gone down the drain. The country doesn't want division. Bernie's supporters better think twice about recklessly attacking Joe Biden.
3
with a strong showing among women, older voters, moderates and conservatives, along with 60 percent of the black vote.
........And? Young ---what about the future?
That could be a problem
I was beginning to be tempted by Bernie. Then I noticed the tone of Bernie supporters going after Biden. It is often strident and demeaning. For the most part Biden folks criticizing Bernie speak more analytically about "electability." I've had it with thin skinned "counterpunching." We already have a president who does that. Bernie's supporters can't take a punch without hitting below the belt. I'm back with Biden.
12
Thank goodness South Carolina voters gave JoeMo (mentum) and elbowed Bernie's tiresome finger-pointing tape-loop out of the news cycle. Of course we'll need more proof in the Super Tuesday pudding, but with Steyer out and Bloomberg barely in, hopefully, character and experience will prevail over megabucks. Biden's strong case-unstated- will be that he can do a lot to restore Barack Obama's decency and legacy and choose a woman or bona fide African-American a running mate.
3
Nobody knows what will happen next. Like a game of poker.
2
I would faint if the press or some pundit ever managed to claw their attention away from the horse race to take an actually informative look at Biden's background, particularly the many years when he was known as the "senator from MBNA." He represented Delaware, for crying out loud! Why is this off limits?
This reminds me of Mitt Romney's presidential run when his horrid tenure at Bain Capital got a brief once-over that utterly ignored the vast destruction wrought by private equity and hedge funds across the economy, playing a key role inflicting what is, in fact, a new decades-long second Great Depression across most of flyover country.
Biden is now getting a similar kid-gloves treatment, while pundits appear to feel duty-bound to repeatedly advise him and the other so-called moderates on what they need to do to beat Sanders. Just keep it up.
4
@Pelham Recommend 100 times! A Biden nomination will result in nothing more than four more years of impeached 45.
2
The scenario isn't that hard to imagine: Biden and Bloomberg will split the moderate vote like Moses parting the waters, allowing Bernie to walk through the opening without having to exert himself in the least.
2
@Muddlerminnow
Valid point! Bloomberg needs to bow out NOW, unite in time for Super Tuesday.
1
@Muddlerminnow And then lead to the biggest wipe out since McGovern. If you believe otherwise, tell me where Sanders wins. Florida? No way. Anywhere in the south? Yeah, right. Wisconsin? Not outside of the metro areas. Pennsylvania? Not a chance between Philadelphia and Pittsburgh. Purple states? Maybe a 25% chance somewhere.
Sure, I'll vote for him, but I'd be willing to bet on his chances of winning.
2
Don't count out Bloomberg.
His poll numbers in Super Tuesday states mean that he's almost certainly going to be 2nd or 3rd in the overall delegate count by mid next week.
This is a three person race: Sanders, Biden and Bloomberg.
2
@John Time to start checking out other counties immigration policies.
The Democratic party is up the creek, fractured and with a presidential field dominated by retreads Biden and Sanders and vanity candidate Bloomberg - too big too ignore, too problematic to prevail - who've blocked less well known and potentially better candidates from gaining traction.
Had the DNC been on its toes, it would have urged state committees to hold ranked choice primaries. Let voters sort out the field - without acrimony and resentment. We'd have our say to produce majority wins. It would have unified the party and better prepared us for the general election.
Electability depends on voter determination. The Democratic party seems determined to lose. Again. Hopefully this time, opposition voters will make Never Trump a priority and a reality.
4
If Biden wins it's also a big win for the fossil fuel industry, the healthcare industry, agribuisness, real estate developers, the military industrial complex and the status quo. So much for being progressive.
5
Amid allegations of plagiarism in 1988 Joe Biden never made it to a primary when he first ran for President of the UnitedStates.
Due to the primary power of Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama in 2008 Joe Biden folded after Iowa and New Hampshire in his second run at the Presidency.
Joe Biden winning the Democratic Party primary in Lindsey Graham's and Tim Scott's South Carolina in February as his 1st primary victory ever is not going to bring any South Carolina Electoral College votes to the Democrats in November, 2020.
4
Get out of the race Amy and Pete! At this point, persistence is pure selfishness.
10
@YN and Warren too? Pete has won more votes and delegates than Liz
1
Biden did pretty well for a guy that this past week said he was running for the Senate and if you don't like him vote for the other Biden.
This is the person the DNC anointed to take Hillary's place in the ring to defeat the greatest threat to our country since WW2?
Vote for Biden if a vote to destroy our country.
3
If you want a general election campaign that dwells on Burisma and Hunter Biden and Trump’s huge impeachment “victory” then please vote for Biden in the primary.
Has anybody learned anything from 2016?
11
In this weak Dem field Biden has always been the best bet to beat Trump. Now Bloomberg and Steyer need to put their bucks behind Biden leading up to superTuesday.
2
The notion that Bloomberg’s public speaking is fatally lacking – at a time when Biden can’t go more than 45 seconds coherently, without then rounding out the minute with babble…
With the media so inured to this, they often let the cameras run…
Well – it’s right up there with all of the (media or consultant) polls that are now so wide of the mark, it’s clear that most have been biased to the point of being propagandized…
For clarity, thought (Bill) Clinton was a great centrist president – though “superpredator” was the stuff for which far more profound apology is needed, than for stop-and-frisk…
For further clarity, Bloomberg wanted to get guns off the street – while the solution (both the WH and Congress) to superpredation was to get certain people off the street, for decades…
In any case, I’d have been content with another two (still Bill) Clinton terms…
But no way, at this point in his life…
See, Bill is not the person he was 25 years ago…
Though – like back then – he’s still four years younger than Joe Biden…
And still noticeably more cogent…
So – how does Joe “capitalize”?
More money for TV ads??
GOP will hammer back with a blooper reel that – like The Irishman – have to leave most on the cutting room floor to get down to three hours…
Obama endorsement???
It would have been his, a while back – if Obama thought Joe could go the distance…
Pledge to serve one term????
GOP will hammer back with the chance of one-year – or one month…
Good night, and good luck…
3
Biden should run for Governor of South Carolina.
Otherwise, he should become a Board of Directors member for Burismo in the Ukraine for millions of dollars without ever having to attend a Board meeting.
Who says the American Dream is dead?
5
The Times and commentators here seem reluctant to celebrate Biden's huge victory for what it was... decisive and transformative for this race for the Democratic nomination. If Bernie had won there would be no such equivocation. Your biases are showing
6
America is about to get hit by a virus that will drive millions of people in medical debts, cause many of them to lie about having been in contact with known infected people and even hide to avoid forced hospitalization.
The rich are buying healthcare stocks right now and rubbing their hands.
How can the NYT root for a candidate who opposes universal healthcare at this point? Honest question.
5
Maybe Bloomberg can channel
Is money towards Biden now that he’s finding his step
2
I thank Sanders for changing the conversation and making real changes in our healthcare system front and center, but now that he has done that, I think there are other candidates who would better over all presidents than Bernie. Unfortunately, Biden is not one of them. Why with such a field of talented candidates did it come down to the two worst of the pack? I'm thoroughly disgusted. I will vote for Joe if I have to but at this point, I'm just as unenthusiastic about Bernie as I am with Biden. Once again the democratic party has screwed up and screwed up for the long term future keeping our country at the back of the pack, losing reputation, power, and good futures for the next generations to come.
“Talk is cheap, false promises are deceptive, and talk about revolution isn’t changing anyone’s life.”
We of course know how he has changed people's lives. Support for the war on Iraq, mass incarceration, his treatment of Anita Hill signaling how [un]seriously he took sexual harassment. Obviously whether Bernie Sanders or Joe Biden as politicians they are ready to do things that will often involve violence and death. And a mistake, can lead to consequences, that can be horrific. So politicians for better or worse are an order of person different from most people.
There is very little in Biden's present that makes me at all confident that he won't continue to make big tragic horrible decisions. That quote is pretty revealing. It contains in it a kind smug hubris that will try and dampen real movements towards change. A Biden's presidency would be a moment's relief from the relentless hell we are experiencing. Not unimportant in itself. But I doubt it would be much more than that. Since many of us are the targets of that quote his call to unity very clearly doesn't include us.
6
What comes next from Joe Bidenb has to be getting the notion across to the voting public, President Trump will easily defeat Bernie Sanders by simply expressing the view every time he works the rope line at those press gaggles on the White House Lawn before boarding a helicoipter and from the podium before those guaranteed crowds at his MAGA rallies, that Bernie Sanders is a self avowed Socialistwhose getting elected will 'crash the stock market and destroy their cherished 401K's'.
And with that said, it's pretty evident Trump's plan is to place that target on Sanders' back much like he put that damning Benghazi target on Hillary Clinton's.
2
"Finally"?
This ought to be funny, but it's not: the Times just can't bear the thought of an actual liberal running for president on the Democratic ticket.....
3
There are literally only 4 data points. One from a poorly run caucus, 3 from states that Democrats could care less about in general, and 1 from a state that put Harry Reid in the Senate. A bit of over-interpretation at this point with respect to who could win in 2020.
5
Mamy months ago, I stated my firm belief that Joe Biden was the best candidate because of his vast experience, his centrist position that would be best re-unite the country and return it to a sane level of normalcy, his ability to work and succeed with Republicans, and most of all, his great heart.
I believe that more than everPlus:ALL debates, as presently structured, should be eliminated. NO funding should be allowed. Instead:onlyPublicly aired TOWN HALL MEETINGS . with NO MONETARY DONATIONS FROM ANYONE AT ANY TIME. Eliminate themillions of dollars to pay for ads or commercials. Eliminate thep ossibility of billionaires, however well-intended, to qualify for a 'free pass'. This is a far more equitable solution, bring more level playing field to the arena that is now more like a circus- candidates shouting over each other; 'he said my name, I go next,' Now let''s see who has the healthiest egos among them. I salute Steyer for his good grace and clear vision. Pete B is pompously eloquent, Sanders is way too far left and has never fully explained how all his programs will be paid for, Warren, also has never explained how all her 'plans' would be paid for.The problem with Sanders is he's attracted many people who feel dis-enfrannchised/worried about health care and college debt. His panacea views are dangerously close to Trump's statements that 'Only I can fix that." I appeal to all voters who are on the fence to re-consider and look at Biden more closely.
5
South Carolina primary voters skewed old. South Carolina is a conservative state. That's why Biden won.
The Black vote in South Carolina is not representative of the Black vote nationwide. First of all, Black voters aren't a monolith. Like everyone, Black people have different ideals, biases, and preferences. That said, Bernie Sanders is the current leader among Black voters nationally. He's the leader for nearly every demographic. Biden's win makes for good spin, but the media response to it tells us far more than the win itself.
13
I hope Biden will finally go on TV, as Trump did, and not worry about possible blunders because when he does it's inspiring and impressive!
Take his CNN interview just now and how he spoke about what he'd do about coronavirus, drawing on his clear experience and heart. Ditto for his cogent thoughts on Afghanistan. Now that's how an inspiring President should look and talk!
12
To me, the Bernie - Biden debate comes down to hope vs. reality. In his speech last night Bernie asked for people to join his "revolution." Joe forcefully espoused decency and morality. I'm actually tired of the destruction of our country by the Republicans, I'd hate to see Bernie's revolution scare people into voting Republican. Biden's election will bring in people who want to restore sanity and who are tired of the Republican "revolution." Biden will likely better help down ballot Democrats across the country, and a Democratic Congress will steer Biden in the right direction. I really can't see Bernie helping elect a Democratic Congress, or working with one if it is elected.
11
@Eero It's disingenuous of Biden to stake his campaign on decency and morality. He's told several whoppers in his attempts to appeal to demographics with good reason to be skeptical of him—arrested with Nelson Mandela? Really?—and he has a terrible record: arguing to cut social security, voting for pointless wars, fighting for credit card companies and against the needy. Don't fall for it.
2
Joe Biden's rise from the dead will be comforting to those who were petrified and panicking that Bernie was a sure thing towards being crowned (Coronad) as the Democratic nominee. Stock Markets can take comfort that for now Bernie is not invincible and then there is Bllomberg waiting in the wings. So there is considerable uncertainty as to who will be nominated by the Democratic party even though Trump may be looking stronger and more of a sure thing.
1
I don't think South Carolina is any more representative of all of American than Iowa or New Hampshire. And, as other commentators have noted, it won't be in the democratic column in November no matter who is nominated. I believe that Bernie Sanders is the candidate who is most able to restore the moral authority that the United States has squandered under Trump. I would be heartbroken if he does not win the nomination. But I would still favor Biden over Trump in a heartbeat. At a minimum, even if Biden lacks vision and passion, he would safeguard the minimal democratic norms such as the rule of law and the balance of power that are at risk of disappearing under Trump.
29
@Rmark6
"[South Carolina] won't be in the democratic column in November no matter who is nominated."
But I love the enthusiasm Biden (and Clyburn) have raised for the Senate candidate who is running against Lindsay Graham!
4
Only after Tuesday will we know if Biden can become the moderate alternative to Sanders. The problem with Biden is that he does not provide the fire that many want to see in opposition to Trump and his slogan might as well be MANA: Make America Normal Again, not exactly inspiring. I don't particularly like Sanders style and his over the top promises but he has put his finger on what ails US society: gross inequality and a grotesque health care system that charges astronomical prices not seen anywhere else in the world. I think Sanders by insisting on running again may have ruined Warren's chances; a true progressive with a deep understanding of the financial sector who would have a much better chance of getting progressive legislation passed by accepting inevitable compromises. Sanders is actually decreasing the chances of any progressive legislation after 2020.
16
I see nothing inspiring about Biden. He’s likable, but very obviously past his prime. Not an age comment, just a fact for him. Why would I want to “go back” to ridiculously expensive health care, and out of control college costs? I know that Sanders won’t be able to accomplish much of his agenda, but I want a candidate who talks about it. A revolution? I’m in. And I’m a fifty something middle class mom.
But all that being said, I will vote for whoever is the nominee, because I’m not crazy.
65
Well, congratulations are due to the media. Their candidate won one state. Now they'll continue spinning their hate for Bernie and his supporters with renew gusto to see if they can throw the people off balance. Maybe, maybe not but don't forget that times are a changing and the people are watching.
20
@Adlibruj
"Well, congratulations are due to the media."
Actually, the media has been saying that Bernie is the front=runner who possibly could win SC and that Biden was toast.
But those are just facts, not Bernie's trumpian "The world is against us" spin
2
After this coming Tuesday, Warren, Mayor Pete and Klobuchar will officially be done. They need to drop out so that the left and the moderates can consolidate. From then on it seems it will be Biden/Bloomberg versus Sanders. I still cannot see sanders winning the nomination. In spite of his youthful following, his socialist/communist baggage and extreme compromising positions cannot win.
18
@Mitchell myrin It is interesting that you see Bernie's social democratic philosophy as a crippling liability but see no such problem with Bloomberg's racism, misogyny, direct financial support of Republicans, and history of troubling comments (including promising to "protect the bankers" and joking about Predator-droning people who "annoy" him if he became president).
3
@Mitchell myrin the only viable moderate alternative is Pete Buttigieg, me thinks. He has all his mental faculties, it seems, and his way to the Presidency is not tainted, like he who must not be named.
There are two Joe Bidens.
There is the Joe Biden who evokes a return to the past, where people accepted "how things are", and if they didn't like it, at least they had learned to live with it. That was a time when "compromise" was still possible - even if most of the compromising was from the left being moved to the right. This is the Joe Biden, and the time, that people want to bring back.
Then there is the Joe Biden of today, of reality. The man who often cannot string two cogent thoughts together, who seems confused and like he just woke from a dream. And the time is now, when compromise is just a three syllabel way to say "NO!", and the majority of Americans are fully aware of the scam they've been living under for forty years bby the Establishment of both parties.
Yesterday the voters of SC voted overwhelming for the first Joe Biden. The problem is that he's a ghost from the past. Ghosts only exist in fairy tales, and it's going to take more than that to beat Trump.
76
I guess we won't know until after Tuesday. I am definitely a Bernie guy, and can't really imagine Biden beating Trump. Not that he wouldn't be able to carry this or that state but more because he simply has lost several steps in age. Sanders and Warren have not.
That being said if Mr. Sanders does not get a couple hundred points ahead on Super Tuesday he is not in a great position. Most other candidates will drop out and behind the scenes push to unseat him will truly begin. Its already started. So many media people started to push this new narrative about a week ago about how if Biden can just pull this one out, while others rolled out their best Sanders is a scary Communist........ No doubt if Biden can keep it close and other moderates drop out the establishments new efforts will become more frantic.
That being said Sanders does have money, the message and the presence in all the Super Tuesday states. Hopefully for the party sake he will be able to close this out soon.
9
The big story is that Warren and Klobuchar are really no longer viable for the nomination. Neither can even muster 10% support.
12
Hmm, Biden finally wins one, but unlikely to be enough to offset his liabilities. Sanders continues to scare half the potential Dem voters. Warren and Mayor Pete are just not competitive. So, if he does well on Tuesday, Bloomberg begins to look like the best option. Yes, he has baggage, but who doesn't.
3
Cue the Bernie Sanders supporters and surrogates saying "primary support in the South doesn't matter" because those states will likely go for the GOP in the general election. It's what they said in 2016.
6
@Patrick
And it’s true.
1
And wasn’t it true in 2016? Hillary lost, despite her massive win in SC then. So tell me, why does it matter?
3
To all the Bernie supporters out there.... he cannot win against Trump. I like Bernie and will vote for him if he happens to be the nominee but, he is not a realistic candidate. Yes we are all frustrated with greedy corporations the lack of affordable healthcare, debt ridden student loans and on and on. But remember, he is spewing unrealistic policy goals that have ZERO chance of passing in this current Congress or any Congress for that matter. Bernie is the ‘feel good’ candidate, not the candidate who can actually get a piece of legislation passed. Change is incremental my friends, it doesn’t happen overnight. So, if you want to ‘feel good’, then by all means, vote for Sanders. If you’re goal is to beat Trump and begin the healing process, then vote for the ‘boring’ moderate candidate whomever that may be.
29
@Beth
The polls show Bernie beating Trump by a larger margin than any other candidate. This is because he doesn't pander, can be trusted and speaks truths many of us live with. Sanders is the only candidate with a broad movement behind him and the only candidate with a record of standing up to corporate influence.
Our Representative Republic is on its deathbed. Citizens like those of us who are not billionaires have little if any real representation. Corporate influence has come to define public policy. Sanders and the broad citizen movement behind him are the last chance we have to revive and protect the Republic and to insure that we address the climate issue in a way that really matters. He can be counted on to actually drain the swamp of corporate lobbyists and self-serving moneyed interests.
27
@Beth
My goal isn't to beat Trump. It's to get rid of Trump, and also the types of Republicans and Dems who got us here in the first place. That includes any corporate moderate the Dems toss up.
7
Biden, if he's the nominee, may indeed have the best chance to win. He's liked well enough by most Dems, and he doesn't scare off some as Sanders does.
That said, I have four reservations about Biden as the nominee:
1. There's a large enthusiasm gap, particularly among the young. I'm not sure he's going to inspire high turnout among Dems or attract many new voters. It will be more an anti-Trump election than a pro-Biden one.
2. I don't completely trust him to hold up once Trump turns his guns on him full bore. Biden isn't a consistently strong speaker, he's prone to gaffes, and can sound old, tired, and bumbling. And Trump won't let up on Hunter Biden. Sleepy Joe and Corrupt Joe are characters who will stick.
3. Is he the leader to counter McConnell and the rest of the Republican obstruction/distortion machine?
4.. Finally, is this the best the Democrats can produce in this era of rising fascism, an impending climate catastrophe, and massive economic and social disruption? Really? A guy who's major message is pointing to everything he did during the Reagan-through-Obama eras and saying "I did that." But isn't the zeitgeist of today exactly a reaction against that period? Isn't that why Trump won and why Sanders has such support? Biden does appeal to a lot of older voters who are tired of Trump's commotion and would love to go back to the 90s. But going backwards isn't a real option. It's not what most want and it's certainly not what the young—who are the future—wants.
66
@617to416
Biden is a fundamentally decent human being and even people who don't support him for president know that. If Trump - make then when Trump - goes full psychopath on him it will backfire in a huge way among the mid-western moderates who Democrats need to win because I believe that they are fundamentally decent people, too.
5
I agree with Bernie that the country needs big changes, but not all at once. Even AOC advocates an incrementalist approach, which Bernie has rejected out of hand. Economists estimate that Bernie's plans would cost $60 Trillion over a decade, but his "tax the rich" policies will only cover half of that, facts that Bernie also rejects.
The first step to moving the country forward should be undoing the massive damage that Trump has done. Adding a public option to the ACA and rolling back Trump's tax cut for corporations and the wealthy are also achievable. That would be progress, not the "status quo", and would give us a solid base to address other pressing issues.
13
@David so which candidate will you vote for?
@David S
The US President is not a king. Yet. He/She still needs approval of congress to pass any of these bold ideas you fret about.
Are you worried that his candidacy would also sweep in an overly progressive congress?
@Tina
I'd like to vote for Buttigieg, but it's clear that he can't get the support of communities of color.
I'll probably vote for Biden and be moderately happy about it. In 2016, I voted for Hillary because she was better than Trump, which isn't saying a lot.
3
Whoever planned out the schedule for the primaries should be fired. Why are so many states voting on the same day allows the mob mentality to hijack the election. And he real kicker is electing a nominee on their ability to debate and not about governing is the real head scratcher.
10
The states plan out the primary schedule, the parties do not. The Constitution gives the states that power.
California shifted to Super Tuesday from the start of June because all too often, the most populous state was an afterthought during the primary season. Well, not an afterthought, but rather just a cash cow. Come here, get millions from private $$$$ from per plate dinners or wine tasting, or meet-greets, and then go back to the states where primaries/caucuses still mattered.
As we have seen in a number of the last general elections, not even national popular vote totals matter as much. It is the Electoral College that really matters, unless no one wins outright there. Then it is the House of Representatives that matters, and there, population does not matter. Each state gets only one vote. The state delegations meet individually and decide who gets their one vote. California’s 53 Representatives meet, pick one of the top three finishers, and that is one vote for that person. Wyoming’s one Representative does not need to meet with anyone and Wyoming’s one vote goes to whomever that person wishes.
Welcome to a voting sandwich, very little meat, but a whole lot of bread being thrown around.
1
Did Biden ever have to sit down and navigate the bait and switch insurance companies offer with the Affordable Care Act? Did he ever owe taxes to repay the reduced rate for insurance he paid throughout the year? Was he ever subject to Credit Card debt and the impossible payoff due to the interests rates through unexpected family tragedies? It is a fact the winner is on these 2 subjects are both industries Biden has protected. He is beyond a moderate. He is a reactionary. The poorest states have always been exploited by both parties by instilling fear of change rather than progress. Sure Biden's message of his desire to return character and dignity to the White House is one we all desire. Warren or Sanders would restore a government for the people rather then compromising with lobbyists who propelled them into office. They would also conduct themselves with honor as they have throughout their careers. Biden's South Carolina win comes with a burden and weight of decades of the majority being subject to dog bones being tossed and telling them change is just not viable.
22
@rdelp
I think Biden's administration would depend on the makeup of Congress. If he helps down ballot democratic candidates win the Senate (and Jones keep his seat in Alabama), and keeps the House blue, then the legislation Congress passes will be signed by Joe. This will offer some protection from the problems you identify. I think he will do better at protecting and supporting the down ballot democrats than Bernie, that is enough reason for me to vote for him.
7
"It was Mr. Biden at his best, passionate and personal. If he had looked half this good in any of the debates, this might have been a very different race."
Exactly. By the way, remind me again - what is the purpose of a "debate" with five or more participants instead of two, on numerous topics instead of one, where random questions are thrown in and a severe limit is placed on how much time you have to answer - other than serving as a form of "entertainment" which distorts what the candidates really are like and what they stand for?
50
So Joe Biden has won the South Carolina democratic primary. In the coming weeks he , Sanders and Trump will meet hoards of people and shake countless hands--all in the time of a pandemic that's lethal mostly to old men.
Some say the Corona virus will finally force us to adopt
nationalized health care, and I hope that's true. Another effect may be limit candidates for president to a more realistic age bracket.
4
Kudos to VP Biden on a huge win. He needed a big, big win and he got just that. Bernie keeps saying he's bringing in everyone, and in many cases he is, but African-Americans don't seem to be moved by his pitch.
That being said, Super Tuesday will certainly provide a much more focused picture on what we can expect over the next few months.
One thing is certain, Amy needs to get out, and probably Warren as well. Their home states not withstanding, if neither of these two wins another state, then they need to do what is best for the party and drop out. Same goes for Bloomberg. These people need to win primaries, not come in fourth, fifth or last.
IMHO - Amy is too stubborn and will stay in, Warren I think it more of a realist and will get out.
8
Biden does not need to beat Sanders Tuesday, or in most states afterward. He needs to wound Sanders, keep Sanders’s plurality to a minimum, and wait for the pragmatic mindset to evolve at the convention. Sanders cannot beat Trump, and the Dems know that. They also know that a trifecta, of Trump plus Senate and House in Republican control, cannot be allowed to occur.
24
Biden should drop out now. It seems unlikely help be able to repeat his SC performance outside of the Deep South (which votes republican anyhow).
Let's be clear here, Bernie didn't win SC in 2016 either, but this time he got significantly more votes than last time. Biden got fewer votes than Clinton. And last, but best news for all: There were almost 2x as many primary voters in 2020 than 2016. Sounds like the Democratic base is fired up and ready to kick Trump and the GOP to the curb, regardless of the nominee!
30
Democratic turnout has been disappointing in every state except South Carolina, the one Biden won. And Biden winning by less than Hillary is moot because Hillary was in a two candidate race; Biden had a clown car of other moderates—Pete, Amy, Steyer—splitting the vote. The turnout and margin of his victory makes him plainly viable.
3
The theory of Bernie's candicacy is that he will expand the base. If that theory is correct, he should win the nomination easily, but the primary results so far have not yet made his case convincingly. It is interesting that the South Carolina primary vote increased substantially over 2016, in a big win for Biden. The primary field will likely be cleared of Klobuchar, Buttigieg, Warren and possibly Bloomberg after Super Tuesday. We won't need to suffer through these ridiculous large debates in which the Moderators score points against the candidates to boost their egos and ratings. Both Biden and Sanders and flaws and strengths. The primaries after Super Tuesday should provide a fair evaluation of who will be the strongest against Trump in the general election. I am glad that I have until March 10th to make up my mind who to vote for in the WA State primary.
18
“Winning means uniting America, not sowing more division and anger. It means not only fighting but healing the country.”
He took an oblique poke at Mr. Sanders. “Talk is cheap, false promises are deceptive, and talk about revolution isn’t changing anyone’s life.”
For Biden to make a dig @ Sanders, & dismiss the voices of Americans that believe in Sanders vision is not going to bring us together.
I went to a Bernie rally yesterday to see the people that support him. What a diverse group. He made one comment about Bloomberg and other then that, focused on the issues, & DefeatingTrump.
If Biden continues to look away from these many faces, and continues to dismiss Bernie and his supporters, you will not be uniting us Biden, you will divide us. And Democrats might not get the turn out they need.
To say these people just want “free” stuff, you need to get out and talk to these voters.Voters that are going bankrupt by medical bills. Voters that are concerned about their futures.
Trump got one thing really right in 2016. There’s a “silent majority”, and if the centrist democrats play their importance down this election season, or criticize their legitimate concerns, then we will have a repeat of 2016.
125
"For Biden to make a dig @ Sanders, & dismiss the voices of Americans that believe in Sanders vision is not going to bring us together." That's awfully selective outrage given the divisive and false things Bernie has said and the hateful language we here from Elizabeth
7
@KateS Sanders got crushed in SC, the first voting state with a very significant black population. To say Sanders has a diverse coalition, but very limited support from African Americans, seems odd.
3
It's really tragic that Biden did so well in South Carolina. He's as inadequate as Trump on today's issues and he would lose the general election. The Third Way is the wrong way. They have been losing more often than not, and frequently to monsters, ever since Bill Clinton's big mistake. It does not work politically, and it's been ruining the world by always prioritizing for money.
42
@Mark Battey
Well, Third Way has been winning.
We the people...not so much.
As designed. Thus many Dems would rather lose with Trump, than win with Bernie.
By the by...Third Way Dems are/were funded by the Koch Bro's. Surprise~!
https://theintercept.com/2019/08/13/koch-brothers-third-way/
8
If Biden wins, it will be a form of Democratic capitulation, an admission that the Democrats have nothing to offer to counter Trump other than a return to the pre-Trump status quo—exactly the status quo Trump defined as "American carnage" and successfully ran against.
The Democrats may indeed win on a "back to the past" platform in 2020. But I don't see that as a recipe for lasting success. On the contrary, I worry the Democrats (as they did with Bill Clinton after Reagan) are going to sacrifice broader and longer-term strength for a short-term victory in the presidential election.
76
@617to416 Trump becomes more of a dictator daily. He is now demanding to control all information about intelligence and the coronavirus personally. Scary times!
Biden is not a great candidate, but Sanders is a terrible one who will likely cost us our democracy. I can live with 4 years of Uncle Joe to get the madman in the White House away from the nuclear codes (and the CDC).
I simply cannot see how Sanders beats Trump in the swing states I grew up in and know well. Polls now don't reflect how Trump is going to come after him. They are useless.
4
Two things I will predict right now (and we'll see how accurate this down the road):
Bernie will go to the convention with more delegates than anyone else, but not a majority, meaning brokered convention.
When no one gets a majority on the first ballot and the superdelegates come into play, you will see an attempt to draft a relatively moderate "national unity" candidate--and I think it will be someone not currently running. My money is on Sherrod Brown,with Mitch Landrieu also a possibility. (I don't think the delegates will go for Oprah Winfrey or Michelle Obama, although the latter should be asked to head Health and Human Services in a Democratic administration.)
Of course, the real out of the box pick in that scenario is Stacey Abrams, but I don't think the risk-averse superdelegates would go for it. I do think there'll be a lot of people pushing her for the VP nod, though.
6
@Glenn Ribotsky
Your second assertion might be the most ludicrous thing I have heard regarding this current democratic scenario. For the convention to stray away from one of the current candidates is ridiculous at best. It is not even remote possibility and to even think if only reinforces how out of touch people are with the process.
Stacy Abrams? really? She couldn't win in a state that is 1/3 African American (shenanigans notwithstanding).
3
@Glenn Ribotsky The last time the Democratic Party selected a nominee who had not even been a candidate, it helped elect Richard Nixon!
1
@Glenn Ribotsky
If the Dems actually do that, then they're snd even dumber party than I already think they are. Brown would have been a great candidate, and he had plenty of opportunity to run and test it out. Many people would have considered and supported him, self included. But never would many vote for him if just drafted by the party out of the blue.
Should Sanders win the primaries with a plurality, and the convention is brokered, Biden would be an easier sell to the electorate than Bloomberg. And certainly easier than some random candidate or slob who never even bothered to run.
2
While true that money is the lifeblood of a campaign, one must also be an effective communicator in the current media environment to perpetuate the bid and spread the gospel.
Platform aside, Biden is not an effective communicator and cannot seem to generate enthusiasm across a wide enough swath of the electorate. Sanders and Trump know how to communicate and energize their base, albeit in fundamentally different ways.
Biden’s reason for running (best choice?) is reminiscent of Clinton’s (it’s my turn?) which did nothing to motivate people to vote. If Biden is relying on the silent majority he had better hope the polls are way off.
If the Democrats want to take the White House, they need the Millennials to do it, and Biden just ain't gonna cut it. There are not enough Boomers left to float Biden’s bid, regardless of his financial strength. But even if he can win the nomination, he still has to take on Trump’s cult of personality and his mastery of television and online media.
No one wants our presidency decided on superficial standards, but does anyone actually see Biden winning a debate against DJT?
69
@Jonny B
I remember watching Mondale crush Reagan in the debates. Thought for sure he had it in the bag. Stupid me.
6
@rtj
and Ferraro vs. Bush !
didn't matter
also , will Trump debate at all ?
2
@Jonny Boy Trump will never agree to debate period. I am seriously wondering if Biden is nominated whether or not I will vote at all. Putin wants to sow chaos. Home run on that with despair going right along with in my heart.
1
I have great admiration for Barack Obama, especially for his movement-like 2008 campaign. But, on the other side of the ledger, Obama helped advance the presidential aspirations of Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden, neither of whom is a particularly good candidate.
65
@Chris Rasmussen Well Obama thrashed Clinton in the 2008 Primary so I don't think he can be held accountable for helping to advance her presidential aspirations...I'd think that one through a little more.
3
@NYBrit it was hardly a thrashing. Check your numbers. She would have won were it not for the mishaps in Michigan and Florida - and super delegates walking him over the finish line. Hillary beating Bernie in 2016 was a a thrashing.
1
@NYBrit My point was that President Obama appointed Hillary Clinton as Secretary of State, and in 2015 mistakenly concluded that Clinton stood the best chance of succeeding him and preserving his policies and his "legacy." As I say, I supported Obama. He was a great campaigner, but he sometimes made political judgments that proved wrong. The Democratic Party has too often nominated candidates who were not particularly gifted campaigners--Dukakis, Gore, Kerry, Clinton. Biden, should he win the nomination, will join that group.
5
Biden is making a mistake clinging so closely to Obama. Obama made a mistake when he stopped his "stimulus" after one year, impeding the nation's recovery. Obama then reduced funding to NIH and NSF, putting research scientists out of work. Bill Clinton at least funded science at appropriate levels, whatever harm he did elsewhere. I supported Hillary because of what her husband did as President. Obama's "accomplishments" are arguments against, not for, Biden.
10
@hiuralney I am an NIH funded scientist. The stimulus funding included alot of extra money for NIH. There were many GO grants funded through stimulus funding. Let's also recall that Mitch McConnell and the Republicans blocked the larger stimulus bill that Obama wanted.
Obama's accomplishments included saving the auto industry (with NO Republican votes) and increasing fuel efficiency standards as part of the deal, an enormous expansion in Medicaid (moving us much closer to universal coverage with lower costs), making pre-existing condition clauses illegal, getting rid of life-time dollar caps on health insurance, ensuring coverage for kids on the health insurance policies until they were 26, signing the Paris Climate accord, the nuclear agreement with Iran, among many others.
Obama's accomplishments were made with a Republican Party united to try to make him a one-term President by blocking legislation that would improve the economy, actions that amounted to treason given the state of the economy at the time. Their concern about budget deficits evaporated once they controlled the Presidency.
38
Obama could've and would've done more if the republicans had not forced him to enact austerity measures. Obama made plenty of mistakes (like missing an opportunity to go after the banks), but he's not the one to blame for the slow recovery
12
@MVonKorff Well said, thank you.
A return to decency and sanity. Biden and Bloomberg can each achieve this goal.But who is better equipped to run the government? To take charge of the current health crisis and the next one. I will take Bloomberg.
16
" I think he will have to do better, no question about that. I have those same concerns. Hhe has to fundraise. It is a tough thing to do. I remember when I first got into this business, I hated to fundraise. I kind of enjoy it a little bit now. I don’t know that anybody really enjoys fundraising. And also, Joe Biden is such a good guy, he hates to say no to his good friends. If we are successful tonight in this campaign, if he has the relaunch, I think we will have to sit down and get serious about how we retool this campaign, how we retool the fundraising, how we do the GOTV, and at that point in time many of us around the country will be able to join with him and help him get it right. We need to do some retooling in the campaign, no question about that. I did not feel free to speak out about it or even deal with it inside, because I had not committed to his candidacy. I have now. I’m all in. And I’m not going to sit idly by and watch people mishandle this campaign. We are going to get it right.”
I have to say that I found this statement by Clyburn after endorsing Biden extraordinary. Imagine if backers had sat Hillary Clinton down and given her a talk like this. Imagine if Dems hadn't endorsed her so early, and so removed their leverage. Made her actually work for endorsements, took her to task for the obvious incompetence of her campaign. We might be in a very different place now.
3
@rtj And if he can't build a primary campaign apparatus (apparently he has had nothing going on in most of the Super Tuesday states) how can anyone expect him to build a winning general election campaign, or if, despite that, flukes a win there, expect him to be able to build an administration to take on the immense challenges it will face.
2
Early voting has probably already determined who will win the California primaries. Mote than 2.5 million had already voted as of Thursday.
10
Biden needs to deliver well crafted speeches in the next three days about how Trump is mishandling the Coronavirus pandemic, for example. It’s timely, everyone is afraid because it could infect them. It seems that Biden performs better that way than winging it “from the heart”, which comes out muddled. The line about his citing that Democrats need to elect a real Democrat was a good shot at Bloomberg/ Sanders. Cheap talk is cheap, and faux TV ads expensive, but faux.
You note that Bloombergs knows how to get under Trump’s skin; well, Trump seems so not to be bleeding politically from the attacks.
1
"Finally!" That is exactly the right word. Finally, in his third campaign for president, Joe Biden actually won a primary.
I cannot help pointing out that the Times's articles on Joe Biden's victory in South Carolina all crow that Biden's candidacy is still "alive," or at least not yet dead. These are hardly ringing endorsements for a guy who has been in government for nearly 50 years and served as vice-president for eight. We will see what the press has to say about Biden's vital signs 72 hours from now. His campaign may be alive, but it hardly seems to be thriving.
92
@Chris Rasmussen That Sanders has survived the daily pile on by the NYTs speaks loudly to his authenticity. It seems that it is only the NYTs and the Democratic establishment that is able to discern any life in Joe Biden's descending campaign. He will win the deep south black states on Tuesday and would lose them to Trump in November. They are meaningless to the final outcome and will only give the never Bernie crowd false hopes. Bernie will sweep the must win mid-west states in the primary and would be poised to do so again in November.
8
@Chris Rasmussen Sanders has claimed to have a multicultural coalition. We now know that he has little traction among blacks. Perhaps that will change on Super Tuesday, but unless he gets a majority of the delegates by July, (unlikely) he has no legitimate claim on the nomination.
1
South Carolina was part of the solid South that voted against the party of Abraham Lincoln in every election after the Civil War. We all know why this changed in the 1960s. After 1960 the only Democrat to win Electoral College in South Carolina was Jimmy Carter in 1976.
In other words, Biden's win in South Carolina is irrelevant to a Democratic path to victory in 2020. Biden will try to project a high African-American turnout in South Carolina as proof that he can gain the African-American vote in other parts of the country, but just as Whites are more conservative in South Carolina, so are African-Americans.
African-Americans in the swing states up North are more optimistic about what is possible than in the heart of the old Confederacy. A look at the polls shows Sanders performing better than Biden throughout the rest of the country, including Texas, which is the biggest electoral prize in the South.
I personally like Biden, but he has no path to victory in 2020 other than in a brokered convention. If he gets the nomination, Trump will defeat him for the same reason he defeated all those Republican candidates in 2016. Trump will portray him as an establishment politician who voted for all those trade deals that sent jobs overseas and voted in favor of the invasion of Iraq. Sanders has a better record on both these issues than Trump.
McCarthyism may still work in South Carolina, but the rest of the country is different from the Dixiecrat states.
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@Robert Scull Hillary Clinton won the popular vote by 3 million and only lost in 3 key states by a total of approx. 75,000 votes. No Trump landslide. Moderate Democratic candidates won back the house in 2018 with the exception of about 5-6 Progressives (AOC, etc.). There is not a widespread desire for hard-left reform in this country.
The support for Sanders is amazing ($46 million raised in Feb.) but it’s not too surprising for someone that has literally been campaigning for president for five years. The question is how broad is his coalition now? Sure he’s a lock in places that will always vote for Democrats but how about AZ, FL or your state?
Obama could quash a brokered convention with an endorsement for Biden if Super Tuesday numbers look promising.
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@Robert Scull
"Trump will portray him as an establishment politician"
That strategy worked for Trump in 2016 since he was new to politics. After four years as president, with dictatorial control of the Republican Party, Trump is no longer an outsider.
Many of the people who voted for Trump were actually voting against Hillary. Trump also now has a record that he has to defend. If he continues to mishandle the COVID-19 pandemic and the economy continues to falter, his chances of reelection will be greatly reduced. That's why he's trying to blame it all on the Democrats, which nobody but his base believes.
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@Dudesworth
Yes, Hillary did win the popular vote in 2016, but once again the real battle will be in those swing states like North Carolina and Virginia, but especially the bigger rust belt swing states in the North.
Just how much of boost Biden will receive from his victory in South Carolina is hard to predict. He put all his eggs into the South Carolina basket, has no real ground game for Super Tuesday, and has very little money to go forward.
The media clearly favors Biden over Sanders, but Trump's popularity is largely grounded in distrust in the media among independent voters.
Much like South Carolina, the electoral college in Arizona has only gone once to the Democrats since 1948.
Sanders popularity among independent voters, Latinos, and youth is key to his lone ability to beat Trump in 2020.
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Actually it's more than 4 states. Before South Carolina, Biden hadn't won a single state in three presidential primaries. He didn't win a majority in South Carolina either. Let's keep things in perspective.
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I do not feel that South Carolina is representative of the nation as a whole. Speaking as one voter (white male age 69) I could not enthusiastically vote for Biden . I see him as a career politician who has zig-zagged around most of the important issues of our time - criminal justice, war in Iraq , gay rights, death penalty. As with Hillary Clinton I see Biden as politician that does not leave the house in the morning until he sees which way the wind blows. I am ready for the over seventies to to step down and encourage a younger generation to take their place in leading the fight for the future of our country. The one bright spot in the campaign for the democratic nomination has been Pete Buttigieg - smart, thoughtful, strategic and most importantly courageous. I look forward to others of his generation joining him in the national spotlight.
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@Gadin Scott
I think it is is Buttigieg who is the more scripted and poll tested. That said, if somehow he got the nomination, I would still vote for him.
@Gadin Scott
You put your finger on it for me. I see Biden as Hillary Clinton all over again, just with more charisma. That last part may be enough to carry him--maybe not. I'll vote for him if it comes to it (anybody but Trump) but won't like it.
I would love for Uncle Joe to win.
In spite of his shortcomings, he emanates kindness, warmth and empathy — traits which we have seen nothing of during the last few years.
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@Von Jones
"Emanates"? Meanwhile, he's been associated with every public policy folly of the Democratic party since he's been in office. One disaster after another. Clinton at least has repudiated his major policy choices in the 1990s; it was all good except for most of it. Not so, Joe.
And he didn't miss a one of them.
So much to look forward to! After one term, the country will be primed for Eric.
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@Von Jones
Lol...yeah, nothing says kindness and warmth much less empathy than an old man poking his finger in people chests, grabbing them by the shoulders, or not letting go of their hands, looming over women who dare question him, telling voters to "go vote for someone else!", picking fights with townhall attendees, calling them "fat", or this chestnut " You’re a lying dog-faced pony soldier.”
Lol...Joe is all about warmth and kindness, except for when he's not. Maybe his imprisonment in South Africa was too much for him eh?
{yes, I'll vote Blue...}
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@Von Jones
Wish he could show me some of his warmth and empathy like he did getting his troubled son Hunter a cushy job serving on a board of directors of a foreign gas company pulling in 50k a month.
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"Even if Mr. Biden collapses ..."
And there is the scariest subtext of all, that Biden will win the nomination (despite everyone holding their breath every time he starts to speak), and then have a medical event.
Biden (and his vanity candidacy) is well past his political sell-by date. Hopefully, Super Tuesday brings that message home.
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@Ray With redistricting and the seats in Congress and legislatures across the country at play, Biden may not win, but he will not drive moderates (remember, they are the majority in the country) to the Republican Party. Sanders will. And, when Sanders fails, you'll get not four more years of Trump, but 10 more years because of the Republican gerrymandering that will occur during redistricting.
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@Ray But it was Sanders who had the heart stent scare right? Or was I reading fake news???
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@f Well, that certainly brightens things up considering (in your best case scenario) that there might be something worth winning after four more years of impeached 45.
Biden should have never been in the race. All he's done is suck votes away from viable candidates. I hereby nominate him for the Ralph Nader/Jill Stein Presidential Futility Award of 2020.
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What comes next? A crushing super Tuesday defeat.
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@gene
The one to watch is Mike Bloomberg.
He is already being written off as irrelevant.
He may not win states on Super Tuesday but he will win delegates and that is what really matters.
Mike is in this to win and he will.
Watch him tonight, sunday, CBS, 7pm EST, Sixty minutes.
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@Simon Sez I'm not sure how well he'll do, but Bloomberg's advertising is all over the media here in Texas (and he got an endorsement from Houston's mayor, which can't hurt). We'll see soon enough.
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It would be nice to extricate personalities and deal in substance, but in an “either-or” match against Trump, Biden has a welcome mat waiting for him at the front gate of the White House. Trump has one waiting for him at his hotel.
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