Don't you remember when good old paper cups were banned by the tree huggers. It only took them some 40 years to figure out ,by now ,plastic has destroyed all their sea creatures.Please call Greta soon ,before it's too late.
17
Just bring your own reusable cup, like all the savvy people do. There is no reason anyone needs disposable cups every day.
103
Lyndon French's homage to Wayne Thiebaud is unmistakable.
1
I stand with Dart.
6
The photo of Jim Lammers is now a Dart board. Thank you for reporting on this despicable company although the headline isn't really appropriate. Mother Earth is fighting for her life.
36
I’m sure fighting back will entail a large donation to trump 2020 and then magically the president will be touting the attributes of poly styrene
36
Its funny how we keep pretending like we just found out that these foam cups and containers are bad for the environment. These will be things that they look back on in couple of generations and curse the billionaires created by exploiting us, them and the future of our planet. And curse us for letting it happen.
We were all too dumb or too lazy to care... Its like, who convinced us all that this was ever ok?
39
I carry a collapsable, plastic-rubber like cup in my purse that usually causes comments as friends fetch and fill up their single use paper?plastic? water glass during catch up chats post exercise classes.
Could / should students bring their own plate (with a cover), and take it home to dishwasher?
Sometimes try to carry reusable fork in purse - must be rinsed after use....
Hmmm......
17
It's time this "family-owned" business became part of the solution rather than part of the problem. Once upon a time, we had paper cups that would actually decompose. It's time to go back to them, if we must use disposables.
31
Polystyrene is made from oil and is part of the fossil fuel industry. It is not renewable and it contributes to climate change. The EPA found styrene in every single sample of human adipose tissue it examined. Better alternatives must be used.
56
I always abhorred foam cups. They just felt wrong and unhealthful as containers for hot liquid. Now, of course, we know the facts about the harm they do. My state of Oregon has been wrestling with a statewide ban on foam containers for a few years and some cities have outlawed them. Hooray for Maine that beat us to it!
29
Worked for DuPont, the better living through chemistry people.
6
Don't use any plastic stuff. What really makes me mad is that those 2 foam brothers are living elsewhere while they let their birth country rot in their produce.
39
Regarding the compostable lunch trays at schools and such, whatever happened to the rigid metal or plastic trays (not disposable, had to be washed) that once were commonly used?
37
It would seem to me that if Baltimore bans foam food containers there would be no need of a recycling facility for them there. It would be nice to know if a brick of recycled foam can be used as a building material.
6
Industry created the throw-away culture. When the first single-use plates and cups came out, consumers had to be told what to do with them after use (throw them in the trash).
As those products spread and not just trash in landfills but litter along our roadsides became a problem, industry blamed consumers. Said figuring out how to solve the problem of single-use trash and litter was consumers' problem. Yet, whenever consumers come up with an answer, industry whines and cries that it can't be done. "My profits, my profits" they cry. "We're entitled to those profits, how dare you demand we behave responsibly."
36
Good riddance to Dart and whatever they choose to call the horrible materials they produce. I have picked up many of their discarded products on group clean ups and just while walking. Often, they are shredded to non-biodegradable bits. And often they wind up in streams, rivers, lakes, ponds, and oceans. Kudos to every entity with the guts to ban them, regardless of threats and lawsuits.
41
Lammers says, “I guarantee you we are going to be different 10 years from now.’’ This is in regard to the recycling and sustainable resource experiments the company is taking. Yet earlier in the article it is reported that the company resists all legal efforts to force them to change. So it's down to the economics of making and selling their products. Consumer pressure is their weak knee. Let's keep hitting there.
One can be assured, were it not for consumer pressure, Dart would be doing things just the same as they've always done.
31
Two Darts...Kenneth and Robert...renounced their American citizenship and moved abroad to avoid paying taxes. Trump's idea of "Patriots."
46
@Boo, Thanks. I was not aware of that.
1
@Steve Beck It was in the article...
10
When are we going to start forcing companies to bear the cost of the environmental harm that their plastic products cause? We should tax the companies producing these products, and tax their sale as well, with the revenue being used to offset the damage caused to wildlife and help fund the development of better alternatives.
213
@SK Why not force consumer to bear the cost?
1
@Sgt Schulz if the companies are bearing the cost, believe me, they will pass it on to the consumer.
34
@lilmissy
Or market how they recycle for you
1
Wouldn't it be nice, just once, for a company like Dart to admit it's time to change? To do the right thing and phase out polystyrene instead of angrily lobbying for the right to pollute? If state regulations put them out of the pollution business, too too bad. They can joint the lead paint association, the uranium watch dial companies and other dangerous polluters in the graveyard of companies who deserve to close.
234
I had to laugh (or cry) when I saw the photo of "bricks of shredded foam cups." Those small pieces that have fallen on the floor around the "brick" are exactly like the probably hundreds that make up the beach upon which my house stands. It is impossible to walk the yard without seeing dozens of pieces. They are so numerous that it would require me to spend a few hours a day cleaning them up. But my little beach town in Belize has already banned foam takeout cups and trays to the great relief of most of the residents. The little bits of foam come in from the sea and the wind carries them all through the town. I look forward to the day when our neighboring countries ban the foam which is thrown into rivers and washed into the sea.
220
@Trent It will get unfortunately get worse. Trade winds, continued dumping of plastic and foam will insure polluted oceans and beaches long after we are all past.
7
Two of the founder's sons renounced their U.S. citizenship to avoid paying taxes? Wow. Nothing I've heard in the last week illustrates the need to vote out the Republicans quite like that does. The styrofoam cup boys are quitting the country because the don't want to pay any taxes here.
310
@Duncan
Like pigeons, they made their contribution and left.
42
@Duncan
Yes indeed - they renounce their citizenship but still want to influence our government. Why not? They are taking the money they saved in not contributing to our tax base to try to buy off politicians with political contributions.
66
@Duncan The one son moved to the Cayman Islands in 1994 when Clinton was President but somehow this is the Republicans fault? The guy deserves criticism but let's not pretend it's only the fault of the Republicans. Plenty of people on both sides of the aisles created the current tax law.
13
Rather than give more spotlight to an outdated, environmental and human health hazard, write some articles about the innovative entrepreneurs and investors developing reusable products and systems to finally take us into the 21st Century.
Old and tired single-use models cannot work given the explosion of population. We need innovative thinking that gets us what we want without all the waste.
Showcase those examples and move us past tired, old school ways of thinking.
8
Typical story of corporate greed and selfishness. Imagine how different things would be had Dart put its resources into transforming itself into a green industry in the 1980s, when the writing was already on the wall. Still, why would they care? The owners and managers will bail out with their millions while their 15,000 employees will walk off their plants empty-handed.
14
I like foam cups but at least there are alternatives. There is no replacement for the plastic straw. My kids spill on themselves or complain they have paper in their mouths from the new straws. I heard at a NYC analyst day lunch yesterday they used wooden spoons. I wonder if anyone got a splinter.
1
@Vincent Freeman I have three straws which I carry with me, one is made from borosilicate, one from titanium and one from copper. These are widely available (well, not the titanium one, admittedly). But there are plenty of alternatives now available!
10
@Vincent Freeman That's such a short-sighted attitude. You can't handle the tiny inconvenience of teaching your kids to drink from a cup without a straw, so you prefer to sacrifice the future of their planet. Attitudes like this, which are sadly all too mainstream, ensure that our planet will never re-green. It's not that a dozen paper straws will change anything. It's that people don't feel the crisis in their bones.
27
All of the issues surrounding packaging and the pollution it causes go back to the same source: convenience. People just want to consume and throw away without a second thought.
That's all very well but with 7,5 billion people on the planet, that waste has now become a massive problem. The solution is twofold: First, companies who create the food and drink packaging must get busy coming up with biodegradable options. This is now within reach it just costs more.
Second, consumers must be prepared to pay more for these items, in order to share some of the burden of making the world a healthier place. All of these disposable items we consume, use once and throw away to make our lives easier and more comfortable come with a COST.
It is now time all of us accept that added cost. The earth is not our garbage bin!
18
@Mark Crozier , Actually, we can get what we want without all the waste. Take Fryeburg, Germany for example. If you forget your reusable coffee mug, you can rent one on deposit and return it to any coffee shop in the entire city. The same can be done for to-go food containers. The Indian tiffin system is a perfect example. This isn't rocket science. LCAs show reuse wins of single-use every time. We just need 21st Century reusable products and systems.
Many alternatives to petroleum based plastic exacerbate climate change and behave the same way in the environment (often with the same toxic chemicals). And you're right, they cost more. But reuse costs businesses less!
And if dining in once again is on reusable, we make a ton of headway there is as well. Again, not rocket science.
12
@Jono
To say nothing of how much better everything tastes when consumed from a "real" dish or cup using "real" cutlery.
7
When I was a child the school lunches were served on a tray with dividers that was also the plate. Why not go back?
15
@Patrick Leigh Agree. But it comes down to cost. That's how decisions are made. You have to hire someone to do the washing of the trays. It just costs more.
2
@Glenn Fannick Commercial dish washing is fast and cheap. The labor cost per item is, I'm sure, far less than what a foam or any other tray costs.
Schools would rather not buy the machines, and instead, go for the short term convenience.
I was at a grandkid's school lunch some years ago and it was sickening. Almost all the food was prepackaged and branded, foam trays, plastic utensils. All the lunch ladies, as we used to call them, did was pass out pollution.
When I was a kid....yes, a very long time ago.....the lunch ladies cooked delicious and mostly nutritious meals, everything was reusable.
16
The REAL villains in this world aren't always the political ones— although it would be interesting to find out just how many American politicians Dart owns, on both sides.
N.Y. Times, are you ready to track every last one of them down and publish all their names and exactly how much money they've taken in "contributions"? Go for it, I'll be rooting for you!
14
The very house I inhabit was purchased with trust fund proceeds: from the Hammond meatpacking fortune. Hammond began shipping dressed sides of beef and pork carcasses using a patented refrigerated car early in the 1870s and amassed a staggering fortune a century before our 45 did. In the process of slaughtering millions of pigs and cattle his plant blithely dumped the carcasses into the Calumet River, rendering not only lard and oleo from their bodies but making that waterway unnavigable. The family tooled around heedless in their private railcars and built Detroit's first skyscraper in the 1880s, besides several robber baron mansions for their children and grandchildren of privilege. Did they care back then? Does the Dart family care now? Only about the money...
12
The very house I inhabit was purchased with trust fund proceeds: from the Hammond meatpacking fortune. Hammond began shipping dressed sides of beef and pork carcasses using a patented refrigerated car early in the 1870s and amassed a yuuge fortune a century before our 45 did. In the process of slaughtering countless millions of pigs and cattle his plant dumped the carcasses into the Calumet River, rendering not only lard and oleo from their bodies but making that waterway unnavigable. The family tooled around in their several sumptuous private railcars and built Detroit's first skyscraper in the 1880s, besides several robber baron mansions for their children and grandchildren of trust fund privilege. Did they care back then? Does the Dart family care now? Only about the money...
3
The very house I inhabit was purchased with trust fund proceeds: from the Hammond meatpacking fortune. Hammond began shipping dressed sides of beef and pork carcasses using a patented refrigerated car early in the 1870s and amassed a yuuge fortune a century before our 45 did. In the process of slaughtering countless millions of pigs and cattle his plant dumped the carcasses into the Calumet River, rendering not only lard and oleo from their bodies but making that waterway unnavigable. The family tooled around in their several sumptuous private railcars and built Detroit's first skyscraper in the 1880s, besides several robber baron mansions for their children and grandchildren of trust fund privilege. Did they care back then? Does the Dart family care now? Only about the money...
2
Some friendly advice for Dart: the best way to survive and get even richer is to become a leader in biodegradable containers.
17
It is impossible to make a man understand something if his livelihood depends on him not understanding it. Similarly, it is impossible to make a polluting corporation accept the true environmental cost of its products.
Try asking a cigarette manufacturer if they think people should quit smoking.
12
would have appreciated if the article had explored the potential health impact of drinking hot beverages from foam or plastic containers.
11
It is easy to carry one's own cup or mug. As war veteran, the found of Dart would surely have been used to do so while in action.
16
It's been apparent since their advent that producing single use containers made of materials which are essentially impervious to degradation by natural processes is a dumb idea. Now, of course, as this idiocy is becoming more clearly apparent to more people the industry involved will hide behind the 'jobs/economy' dodge to protect its profits and keep doing what it has been doing, against reason, for several decades. They can join the chorus of coal and oil industry execs bemoaning and bewailing their assignment to purgatory. Meanwhile the rest of us need to get on with the fundamental business of transforming human life to a more sustainable form.
12
I carry a stainless steel water bottle which gets filled up reverse osmosis before leaving home.
I carry a small insulted steel bottle for coffee while out and never drink from paper or styrofoam cups at restaurants or coffee shoe. When the staff offer a paper or foam cup, it's "no I don't want the small amount of chlorine or the styrofoam in my body."
But occasionally it is a paper cup, like airport coffeeshops. They have nothing else...a throwaway world to keep staff time low...cup washing means more minimum wage to pay.
The Dart Container Company is caught between a rock and a hard place.
8
Not sure what they consider recycling, but I have bought plants from garden centers that have foam bits mixed into the potting soil. Environmental disaster in my yard- the yard I am trying to make more environmentally friendly by phasing out the lawn! I have spent hours picking foam bits out of my yard. I'm sure someone thought it was a clever, cheap substitute for perlite, but it's not!
7
Support a native plant nursery, not a big box department store!
7
@N equals 1 That's not foam, it's the mineral perlite, a natural material used to improve drainage.
2
@Susan sometimes it's perlite. sometimes it's plastic sourced foam.
3
Danimer Scientific is now supplying cup mfgs (among others) with marine biodegradable plastic. It seems that the market can provide the solution people are looking for.
5
The main thing is Dart continues to deliver profits to its investors. Of course, they’ll all be dead, but at least they’ll be rich.
7
@Mike Smith No investors. It's privately held.
5
I agree with what Bernie says: Congress doesn't regulate Wall Street - Wall Street regulates Congress. Money and greed run, and ruin, the planet.
20
“If you just give up on foam,” said Michael Westerfield, director of recycling at Dart, “what are they going to want to do next?”
First they came for DDT...and I did not speak out..
Then they came for PCB's...and I did not speak out
Then they came for coal ash...and I did not speak out...
Etc.
31
hate the headline: foam cups ARE NOT alive. & i don't use the horrid things. & foam cups ARE an abomination--not some 'both sides'y' thing.
23
I went to middle school in the late 80s in another country. Over there we had school lunches but brought our own containers and utensils to the dining hall. We had freshly cooked hot dishes every day. After lunch we were responsible for washing our own dishes. Would this be too much to ask for American children?
50
@Phat Katt why yes it would be too much for our Darlings to clean up after theirselves.
21
they should shut this whole company down completely.
that the CEO would act as if this alien substance is not bad for the planet.....
18
Charge the true cost of this garbage and it will die a fast death.
Subsidies for polluting the earth is so 1950's!
Moocher Class and their garbage products are 'Dead Products Walking' they need to change now or go bankrupt and nun too soon.
And take the Private Bone Spur-Draft Dodger with you!
20
Ban them already!! They should have been banned years ago.
31
Having run stream cleanups each year for the last ten years, I see every reason in the world to single out styrofoam. Despite being a small part of the trash being generated, it is a huge percentage of the stuff we clean out of streambanks. It's the same old stuff too, styrofoam, water bottles, mylar chip bags, and plastic bags. Foam is really bad because it is fragile and breaks apart, floats like anything, and is really light. We need to admit foam was a bad idea and phase it out- even McDonald's stopped using it decades ago!
41
When we initiated an effort to replace foam cups with paper cups at our workplace, we quickly faced pushback from others who had been down that road. Our small task-force learned about the differences between one and the other and what initially seemed an obvious solution quickly became a mind boggling confusion. Considering the entire process, including energy use for production, source of materials, true time to biodegradation, cities’ recycling capabilities, supposed carcinogens in foam, wax coating on paper, insulating performance, landfill, trees, etc, we figured that a small amount of water to wash a reusable cup was nothing compared to the impact of any single-use material.
Now the big question is what kind of detrgent.
15
Stop supplying cups all together. People will learn pretty quickly to bring in their own coffee cup or reusable water bottle.
12
Biokleen or Dr. Bronners are great
2
To the owners of Dart Corporation - Enough already!
Where do you think your grandchildren and great grandchildren will hide from the effects of climate change and pollution in the air, water and soil.
Time to wind up your polluting ways.
20
While everyone screams, yucky yucky yucky, Plastic won't go away any time soon, just some of the more commonly used consumer goods. Wires covered in a plastic covering won't stop being made, unless you have something that can replace billions of miles of copper wire coverings.
Your smart phone has plastic in it too. No counting you kindle, laptop, other internet ready devices.
Sure we could do away with a huge glut of things we got lazy about, and cheap about, and now those things haunt our shores with plastic bits. We had a great run with 100's of cubic miles of fossil fuels, we burnt the old sunlight, and now have to live with our own actions. But saying you hate all plastic, means you might have to get rid of the plastics you do still use.
Be careful what you wish for.
4
Copper wire insulation is usually installed into a home for decades so comparing that to SINGLE USE plastics is comparing apples and oranges
12
Can the Dart brothers legally make direct or indirect campaign contributions as they are not US citizens or lawful permanent residents?
What's to stop them from using their company to funnel cash to friendly Americans (e.g., employees and vendors) who will act as conduits and make it clear to the donees whose interests are being advocated?
9
Anybody tempted by any of that product including the coffee??
1
@jwp-nyc: I'm fond of (organic, fair-trade) coffee.
“If you just give up on foam,” said Michael Westerfield, director of recycling at Dart, “what are they going to want to do next?”
Save the world? How 'bout that?
Since you asked, I'm for saving the world next.
35
Another one of those companies that refuses to adapt and evolve.
Research biodegradable products and make your cups out of them.
We only have one world.
13
Do not buy the cups, tell your employers not to buy the cups and if a deli/take uses them, tell them you'll not frequent them again if they continue using them.
Better yet - bring your own re-usable.
Put the monsters out of business.
18
@Sara G2: Better yet, do both.
2
Sorry Dart.
Lead, follow, or get out of the way.
We only have one planet. Keep that in mind when it comes to corporate profits. Once our home is no longer habitable, profits no longer matter.
And, you are not the only ones to fault. It is the end consumer. We do not NEED all these "modern conveniences" that so many have come to rely on for nothing more than laziness!
15
I personally detest foam cups and clam shell food receptacles. They easily cause a mess by breaking into pieces that are easily blown away. For years, I would find foam chunks in our backyard garden.
I carry my own reusable cup into the bagel shop that uses foam cups so as not to add to the problem. I’ll admit foam cups are superior to paper for insulating hot and cold beverages, but I would like to see them go out of existence.
9
@Michael Talbert
well if that's the case "I'd like the see them go out of existence" while you're bringing your own reusable cup into the bagel shop tell them to get rid of the foam containers, coffee cups they are still using - OR you won't support their business if they don't care enough about the environment.
We all have to start somewhere & do our part = enlighten others to spread the word - NOT the foam containers everywhere on our precious planet ~
6
One more point - styrofoam containers contain styrene, which is a carcinogen, that leaches into your food making it unhealthy to humans, not to mention what it does to other living things on our Good Earth.
Another reason to ditch it.
14
The Dart family is infamously secretive. If I recall the stories correctly, Ken Dart not only renounced his citizenship, he bought himself an ambassadorship to the US, thereby giving him the right to live here if he wished and not pay taxes. In addition, he also funded a great deal of brain research, specifically regarding the possibility of keeping the brain alive after death, evidently to avoid estate taxes.
Peculiar people, as many of the ultra-rich are.
34
@George
I think Ken Dart lost on the ambassador scam.
1
Foam food containers were light weight, waterproof and most importantly they kept the food hot. They also kept costs down. Now the vendor pays more (and passes the cost along) for inferior cardboard boxes or foil with a cardboard lid. None of these can be recycled due to regulations. The customer now gets a a soggy container with cold food inside.
5
@Donna Gray
In parts of southern Europe many still go home at midday and not only make a wholesome meal, but actually sit down and enjoy it without the use of foam containers. Just imagine that!
17
The mid day commute is actually the main cause of global warming, according to my own research.
3
@joebloe
in many European cities people walk or take public transportation!
5
So... a company that sells its products on the market is ... mad that the public, aka, the market, elects officials who represent their desire to reduce foam products, and then wants to punish the people who don't want to buy everything they offer?
Glad to know they also own Solo, so I can make sure never to buy anything from them, either.
Would love a follow up with a list of all their customers so I can boycott them, too.
53
@WWD Fastest way. Boycott everyone. Simple and easy to do. Remember we grew up not knowing things, so all those years, unless we were mindful back then, we were also part of the problem.
The whole of the planet has to be blamed for this dire place we find ourselves. Only the current babies get off without blame for these actions.
1
Dart's comments about recycling expanded polystyrene are nonsense. The material is not currently recycled in any practical sense.
To start, it cannot be recycled after it has been exposed to food. Second, vast amounts of the material must be collected before it will be accepted by a recycling facility. I live in a community of 40,000 people. The city would need to rent 10,000 square feet of warehouse space in order to collect enough material to warrant recycling. Third, as was noted in the article, shipping costs are prohibitive.
Expanded polystyrene is a terrible material and should not be used in food service. It leaches toxic chemicals into hot food or drink. It never decomposes and will be here hundreds, if not thousands, of years from now. It breaks down into tiny pellets that are impossible to collect and dispose of responsibly.
"Dart executives say many of their customers also want more sustainable containers, but are facing the financial realities. Some food and beverage companies, they said, want containers made from more recycled and compostable material, but not everyone is willing to accept the additional costs."
This is also nonsense. We have seen market transformation in construction and in healthy food, two industries that have introduced new products and brought down costs dramatically. We can do the same in food packaging. We do not need expanded polystyrene at all.
75
@LHSechrist
Much of the insulation used in construction is expanded polystyrene board, commonly just called 'XPS.' At least in that application it helps with mitigating the use of fossil fuels to heat our homes.
Foam is used a lot in the construction industry, both sprayed and as board insulation. I don't believe it's going away any time soon. I'm hoping that as buildings reach the end of their design lives and are slated for demolition the material can be collected and kept from landfills.
1
@CF - Thus, my comment: "Expanded polystyrene is a terrible material and should not be used in food service.
I was not speaking of construction materials, but it would be great to have innovation and alternatives for rigid Styrofoam insulation as well.
2
I'm all for reuse recycle, I take my bag to the grocer and use my travel cup when I buy a cup of coffee to go. But I have little patience for decisions that are made on banning products when they are not based on science. In the 90's Martin B Hocking had a series of papers, in the journal Science and others, suggesting a dramatically lower environmental impact of Polystyrene foam compared to the lined paper hot drink cups (which couldn't be recycled at the time). At the same time environmental groups were pushing companies to get rid of foam cups and move to paper hot drink cups. We need more and better studies and scientific consensus should drive these regulations. According to Hockings calculations, If you have a ceramic mug and it breaks before you use it 1000 times, you might be better off (in terms of carbon footprint) using a foam cup.
4
@T, I can’t imagine how using 1,000 foam cups would have less impact than reusing a single ceramic cup. Will check out your source.
Would you post a link, to save the rest of us a little time? Thanks.
14
@T, I can’t imagine how using 1,000 foam cups would have less impact than reusing a single ceramic cup. Will check out your source.
Would you post a link, to save the rest of us a little time? Thanks.
eta: never mind; here’s one link
https://sustainability.tufts.edu/wp-content/uploads/Comparativelifecyclecosts.pdf
4
@T, I can’t imagine how using 1,000 foam cups would have less impact than reusing a single ceramic cup. Will check out your source.
Would you post a link, to save the rest of us a little time? Thanks.
1
While in college at Michigan State in the 1970's, a girlfriend, raising my awareness of the benefits of recycling, taught me to wash and reuse my "styrofoam" cups. Then I got a part-time job a few miles down the road at the Dart Container Corporation plant mentioned in the article, in Mason, MI. On my 2nd day, if I remember correctly, I learned that the plant made something like 1.5 million of these cups per day. I never bothered to wash another cup.
7
@pionguy
The fact you readily stopped reusing the cups and embraced working at a 1.5 million cups a day polluter says it all!
You might want to check the air you're breathing at that plant!
3
Also, why do students need compostable trays? Compostable isn’t a non-environmental impact product — it requires material and energy to produce, and needs to be transported away and then actually given time to compost.
What’s wrong with a metal tray that, gasp, gets washed in house and reused? Also, food can be served in things called dishes that can also be washed and reused.
63
Mr. Bonn, I am not sure about other school districts, but in the school district, my children go, the district cut the lunch staff down to just one or two per school, because of budget issues. All the food for all the schools in our district is produced at one site and then transported to all the schools. The trays they use are meant to keep the food warm while in transit and then easily disposed of afterward because there is no one to wash them. It is a very sad state at our schools right now, and only getting wrose.
12
@An American In Germany it probably comes back around to cost and safety. safety: kids would likely use the metal trays to hurt each other. cost: theft of trays and the cost of headcount to wash and maintain the trays. the trays would need to sterilized (not just washed), and we're talking 100s or 1000s of tray sanitized a day. Also, union employees with retirement benefits are expensive.
1
My grade school used reusable hard plastic trays, and not even once did anyone hit anyone else with a tray.
23
There are lots of reasonable uses for this material. I even once saw a house built out of it - and someone parked a tractor-trailer cab on its roof to demonstrate its strength. "Lost foam casting" is used in manufacturing some metal components. A company should exist to serve these needs.
Disposable food containers, however, are not among these reasonable uses.
2
We should ban plastic and polystyrene. Period. Full stop. The minute it's no longer available some smart postmillenial will invent a replacement.
17
@Barb Gazeley Don't be so naive. Like it or not, our world depends on plastics. Everything would come to a screeching halt, especially the economy.
I presume you don't use a cell phone or own a car. For starters. (FYI, plastics are a big reason for fuel economy gains over the years. Your bumpers are now light weight plastic instead of those heavy chromed things of yesteryear, for example. )
1
Shame on the Dart family. Don't y'all have enough money? Do the planet (and yourselves) a favor and give up polystyrene foam. In case you haven't noticed, the world is burning!
27
@Andrea I wonder how much $ they donated to Trump?
3
The photo of Jim Lammers is telling. Surrounded by nature's beauty. Ironic? What do his products do to that kind of setting?
25
@paplo I'm not sure it's ironic. (I'm not being critical- I really dont know.) I think for something to be ironic, it must be created or designed with the exact intention of generating a feeling of irony in the viewer. Because Mr Lammers and the photographer probably were not looking to generate irony with the photograph, I'm guessing the better word to describe the phenomenon is: coincidence. Specifically, a tragic marketing coincidence.
1
@Jhett Thank you for taking the time and enjoying language. I do believe irony can be unintended and often seen from a distance.
A picture can speak a thousand words. Not sure it's a coincidence. Agree with tragic.
8
@paplo
Also telling is inscribing boulders with insipid words.
8
“If you just give up on foam,” said Michael Westerfield, director of recycling at Dart, “what are they going to want to do next?”
Long ago I asked a kid in my grammar school class if I could have a stick of his Juicy Fruit Gum. "Well," he said, "if I give you a stick, I have to give everyone else a stick." I replied that there was no one else there.
Why does The Times feel the need to record the observations of this corporate stooges, who will be out on their ears if they tell the truth?
By the way the oligarchs who own Dart are vulture capitalists. They didn't get their billions from humble coffee containers.
Let's get the whole story, please. Inclduding how many lobbyists are on their payroll.
34
You’re right. He employed the “slippery slope” fallacy. It’s a scare tactic intended to stop the discussion.
9
An industry whose time has gone. Regulate them out of business. They make their money by polluting our world.
Are you listening, oil companies?
28
Hey, Dart dinosaurs. Change or die out.
How about instead of fighting lobbying you accept the science that your product is indeed bad. For us and for the environment. Just focus on designing the new future product rather than actually trying to defend foam with a straight face.
34
I had a sympathetic mindset till I got to ex-pat anti tax malarkey. At that point they are complaining to the wrong parties, tell their new government and newspapers. Pack up and go home wherever that is.
7
After reading this I bought a stainless steel reusable to-go container to use anytime I have lunch on the go.
13
@Simon Storey How do you wash it? Chemical detergents transported by trucks? Hot water fueled by oil and gas? There is no zero cost alternative.
2
@Anonie just because there's no zero cost alternative does that mean we stop striving to do better?
6
@Anonie No, there is no “ perfect”, that does not mean there are not varying levels of harm. No one is proposing we move back in to caves, but Simon Storey is reducing resources used, and that is a good thing. Unless you buy into the “ If you can’t do everything, do nothing” school of thought.
7
Styrofoam's horrid effects on the planet aside....
Does anybody actually 'enjoy' drinking from a styrofoam cup?? Could anything be more disgusting to drink from?
...not to mention the horrid sound that styrofoam sometimes makes (i.e., nails on a chalkboard).
When I see any business that is still offering takeout food, coffee, etc. in styrofoam, I think 'clueless dinosaur' of a business.
30
foam cups.......it's only a fraction of the problem ....plastic is much, much worse....
Humans are buying 1 million plastic bottles of water per minute around the globe - 1 million per minute
...of which less than 20% is recycled -the rest is finding it's way into landfills and our oceans
....when's the last time you bought a Poland Spring bottle of water
...don't talk to me about the Green Movement while you're sipping your water...
..we can all do much more - but most of us choose not to...
12
@JMS
I dont agree- this company is as bad as all the other stuff that the oil companies make
1
If Dart Container is so awesome, so massive, and founded by such brilliant folks, they can certainly do some innovation to atone for their polluting products.
Man up, Jim Lammers.
12
Why is it that human beings are the only species on earth actively destroying their own habitat?
The cruel irony of “convenience.”
6
A strategically- oriented company that recognizes a negative trend of one of its portfolio would seek alternative opportunities rather than to fight a global trend. It’s a wast of resources to take this to court. A public company would see a “sell” next to it ticker symbol.
5
@Glenn Omura Dart is privately owned. Not listed. no ticer symbols
Dart is spending a lot on R&D to figure this out. They should be given credit for their efforts
3
@Brad Burns Then why does Dart need to file lawsuits and make the City of San Diego waste taxpayers funds to write an EIR? If the CIty of San Diego wants to ban foam food service products, they have the democratic right to do it. Democratically elected officials voted to ban the #plasticpollution.
2
The long-term effect is the eternity of Styrofoam in the oceans, beaches and everywhere else. But maybe people enjoy living among their waste products, of all kinds. The short-term effect is the elution of carcinogenic chemical binders within the cups themselves into your hot coffee. Your liver, kidneys and bloodstream are not pleased.
11
We have come to believe that single-use disposable items are normal, even essential. Society must retrain itself to recognize the ecological limits of this little planet. Circular economy, folks. It's where we have to go. And soon.
15
It's not a Midwestern company. It's owned by a couple of silver spoon ex-pat billionaires (and I would guess probably some others) who renounced their US citizenship because they didn't want to pay taxes.
IMHO a fitting end for these folks would be to live an extraordinary long life of poverty.
43
Refuse to purchase items packaged in poly/styro-foam.
24
@McG
I haven't bought the foam cups in many many years.
but there's a lot of other stuff we have to get rid of.
4
Wasn’t the founder the fellow that took Ronald Reagan under his wing and changed him from a Democrat and former union leader into a Republican and conservative crusader?
1
“We don’t believe there are good, objective reasons to single out certain materials,” Dart’s chief executive officer, Jim Lammers, said in a recent interview at the company’s headquarters.
Oh really?
“A paper cup, as far as I know, has never killed any sea creatures,” said Jan Dell, an engineer who used to work in the plastics industry and now runs the Last Beach Cleanup, an advocacy group focused on plastic pollution.
Sounds like a good objective reason to me.
19
@Damolo EXACTLY! Thank you.
3
I live in Staten Island where consumers are horrified that on March 1, their beloved plastic supermarket bags will disappear, and they’ll have to pay a nickel for a paper sack if they don’t bring their own bag.
As for styrofoam.... OMG of course there are alternatives.
When will it meet its death?
When pigs fly.
Excuses are the rule.
11
@Susan Anderson
I’m in my mid-sixties, thus set in my ways according to stereotypes.
Yet, I find it easy to use reusable bags at the store, a insulated mug for coffee, and reusable straws.
As to leftovers from restaurant meals, what was that my parents used to say?
Clean your plate. ;-)
6
@Susan Anderson
The paper vs. plastic debate is a silly one, in part because almost everyone buying paper grocery bags periodically buys a box of plastic garbage bags...
Paper cups vs. styrofoam cups does not have this same reuse dynamic.
1
There is no decision to make about paper or plastic bag: you bring your own reusable bags. As a bonus, they are of a decent size, easier to carry, and don’t rip.
5
Since there are viable alternatives to polystyrene containers it is time to phase them out. Since Dart amassed a fortune making them, they should be funding the R&D on ways to clean the residual polystyrene from the environment.
10
Your foam coffee cup isn't fighting for it's life, the planet is.
71
“…We don’t believe there are good, objective reasons to single out certain materials,” Dart’s chief executive officer…said…
Actually has a point…
Unfortunately for the guy, about two dozen coal and vaping company CEO’s that’ve been using the same line for too long…
PS
A mindbender for the STEM and Styrofoam-averse…
Suppose these folks decided to sequester CO2 in their wares…
And – because the stuff lasts for 40 billion years, even outliving asteroid hits and Trump 2nd terms – all that CO2 would be safely put away…
Would Greta Thune be down with that…
PPS
A mindbender for M’Kinsey and G’’gle job interviewees…
How many Styrofoam cups containing sequestered CO2 could be sequestered in Yucca mountain over a century, if they compacted them – say, every 5 years or so – using a MOAB…
(of course, after making sure the door is bolted shut)
The clincher job-clinching answer…
Depends on whether Mike wins – because he’d ban all container sizes larger than 64 ounces, and that’d change the quantum container-count density of the toxic trash…
And whether Harry Reid would be down with that...
That’s a lot of work to store CO2 that could just go into a big ballon or into the type of storage used for natural gas (look it up). The hard part is capturing the CO2. Not storing it.
2
@Norm Vinson
Next time you set out for Banff using a giant CO2 balloon, send some aerial videos...
But there're four consultants trying to reach you on LinkedIn, as we correspond...
Best wishes for career success...
Dart's products ALL use NEW plastic made from newly produced fossil fuels which were previously sequestered in frack seams, so foam cups ADD new CO2 above the earth's crust.
Conversely, paper cups are made from old CO2 that has been sequestered in trees. No net gain of CO2. (except for machinery driven by fossil fuels).
Just get rigid Plastic trays you can put in the dishwasher. Jeez!
7
They don’t want to pay the minimum wage to the dishwasher. They probably got rid on on site dishwashing equipment and staff as a cost savings measure.
1
I'm very disappointed in the New York Times for not even mentioning an even worse problem with these products: Styrene is a CARCINOGEN. Personally I refuse to drink or buy hot beverages or hot food packed in these containers. And I'm glad they are being banned in more and more places.
21
Good 'ol American Capitalism. Privatize the profits, while socializing the costs of the damage caused. USA, USA.
36
@SteveH Capitalist on the way up, socialist on the way down.
1
I’ve successfully avoided using a foam cup in 10 years. They serve no purpose but to add ok to waste destroying the earth. Go away!
9
Peoples jobs depend on us destroying ourselves. So, die for the jobs, jobs, jobs. The serfs are willing.
4
The Dart heir in the Caymen Islands is worth 5.8 billion dollars? Do these cups cure cancer?
6
"Your Foam Coffee Cup Is Fighting for Its Life"
I prefer the headline "Environmentalists are Fighting for the Planet's Life."
27
Yet another example of how the “economy” will always trump the environment unless we are brave enough to tell the industry to either up their game or get out of town. We also need to have the backs of the workers these companies are prepared to sacrifice for the sake of profit. We can all start by choosing to use reusable containers just like we had to do in the days before plastics.
15
@D. Knight agree. Cue the Yang Freedom dividend proposal for the displaced workers ...
"The backlash against foam is taking its toll. Polystyrene foam sales have been declining, and the company has been broadening its offerings to include more paper products, including coffee cups sold at Starbucks and Dunkin’. It is also experimenting with containers that can be composted or fashioned from recycled content."
Exactly - so why are you fighting it, Dart?
11
@mainer because the foam is more profitable?
Because they know we're coming after those hard plastic polystyrene lids and solo cups next.
2
This is an industry ripe for disruption.
Time for the heirs to pull out their copies of Atlas Shrugged and think a little about why they’re heirs rather than founders.
24
Dart's welcome to devise its own environmentally friendly, biodegradable, refillable products. Isn't that what capitalism's all about, after all? Adapt to the changing market, or another company (hopefully American) will capitalize on the opportunity.
Of course, I suppose the Trump campaign can start selling MAGA-branded cups to go along with the plastic straws it's already selling. "Take that, nature-loving liberals!"
12
On January 1, Assembly Bill 619 went into effect in California. It allows restaurants to use customers’ reusable containers for their leftovers and takeout instead of the restaurants’ disposable containers. First, the restaurants have to have written procedures they’ll use to ensure no contamination from customer containers. (If you box up your own leftovers at your table, that takes care of that concern.) My husband and I now have a takeout kit we keep in the trunk with reusable napkins, stainless steel cutlery, our own containers that we take with us when we eat out. Once you get in the habit, no big deal – much like taking your reusable coffee cup with you. And nice reduce our plastic waste at home. If more Californians start asking to use their own containers, restaurants will get these written procedures in place and start saving money on disposable containers, too. See this Surfrider Foundation article (if the link carried over). This is a nice example of the enactment of a needed legislative fix coupled with individual action.
17
@Linden this is brilliant !
1
@Linden
That may work for Californians, but is difficult for New Yorkers who came by subway.
@Susan Levy Nothing a little creative problem-solving can't handle. Where there's a will, there's a way!
This is reminiscent of the ongoing discussion about chopsticks. Whether plastic or wood, disposable chopsticks are a huge problem in China, with Japan not far behind. It is (largely) not acceptable to bring your chopsticks with you when you go out to eat (you don't bring your fork to Denny's), but that's the only truly-viable solution.
There was a time, not twenty years ago, when businesses had stocks of ceramic mugs, which some minion washed at meeting's end. I realize in today's world that's not acceptable work, and, besdes which, we've now adapted to the "convenience" of taking our drinks with us where we go. But.... I carry a ceramic mug, and use it. Not a bad idea.
5
And I take my chopsticks with me. Not a bad idea either.
2
We use corn starch straws. They resemble plastic but they are compostable. Bowls, cups and plates and utensils are also available that are made from corn starch. Recycled paper bags and recycled to-go containers are also available. If a restaurant is using plastic and especially styrofoam cups and to-go containers, I just won't go there. There are plenty of other restaurants that don't use plastic.
8
@ana When I order a drink in a restaurant, I usually say, right off, "no straw", but last summer, I went to a restaurant and ordered a drink. They brought it with a straw, and guess what it was made of? Straw! I couldn't get over it! And I didn't ask whether it was organic ...
2
One can only hope humanity will evolve and take care of itself despite the ignorance that has led us to where we find ourselves today. It happened somewhat with tobacco, and certain pharmaceuticals. Just as better dietary habits were discovered and much of the mentality behind what our parents fed us in the 50's and 60's has evolved, so must manufacturing, packaging, and reducing mankind's impact on the planet. Oil has simultaneously been a triumph and defeat of mankind. The awareness is growing, the action needs to follow. Times change, the world changes with them. We're not cleaned up and fully aware yet, but more people seemed to be concerned about it and are taking action. You've gotta start somewhere. As usual greed and power are the biggest obstacles.
5
My wife and I drink way too much gas station fountain pop, but decided 2 years ago to only use our Ozark Trail (Walmart brand like the Yeti) tumblers. No tumblers, no pop. Saves 5 or 6 huge styrofoam cups from ending up down the trash stream every week. Make it a habit just like your metal water bottles. Every little effort counts.
22
The Dart CEO's comment that all products have environmental costs so why single out styrofoam is disingenuous to the extreme. Not all environmental costs are equally severe nor are their effects felt on the same time scale. Sea life--whales, dolphins, albatrosses, fish, oysters--are reeling from the effects of plastics pollution right now. They are showing evident signs of contamination and many of their populations are in decline now, and nonbiodegradable plastics like styrofoam are part of the problem. By placing its narrow corporate interests over the common good, Dart is effectively refusing to be part of the solution. I'm sorry Dart, but R&D on potentially more environmentally sustainable options that might be implemented two decades in the future no longer cuts it as a corporate sustainability gesture.
41
Polystyrene foam is "being labeled...as environmental blights contributing to the world’s plastic pollution problem" because it IS. The research is in. Am I supposed to care that Dart is so backward looking that they are making themselves irrelevant in their market?
They are causing harm to our environment (and ultimately to our health) even though the information exists about the impact their product is having. If they don't have the smarts to compete in today's and tomorrow's markets, another company will.
25
In an EU airport recently I saw bowls and cups that resembled styrafoam but were of a composite recyclable material and went into "paper" recycling bins. Worked just fine. Time for their lab people to get out of Michigan and explore the world.
53
This is the problem with American Business - they refuse to adapt. They hold communities hostage until they get their way. The reality is, we know that things like polystyrene and other petroleum based articles are not sustainable. Why not move to designing products that are compostable or use less and less plastic.
Because let's face it - a dead customer is not a good customer.
64
@M.F.
Perhaps they'll go into the plastic coffin market. Then the cemeteries can be as polluted with plastic as our oceans and landfills.
9
We know too much about plastic now not to change.
Make a sustainable product or go out of business so someone else can.
73
There’s no sense in sitting around waiting for the market to do the right thing. It’s time to tax all single-use plastics to fund a mitigation effort. The environmental cost of these products is so much greater than the production cost.
44
@Amanda
Here in my Canadian province we pay a recycling fee on every plastic, glass and aluminum beverage container, as well as consumer electronic products. Most, I imagine, eventually get recycled.
Plastic shopping & grocery bags are on the way out and efforts are being made to eliminate heating oil as a winter fuel in favour of heat pumps.
Smart meter technology in anticipation of increased demand is being paired with rooftop solar panels to supplement reliance on fuel generated electricity as also are wind turbines and commercial solar panels. Experiments are being conducted on the feasibility of harnessing tidal power.
I'm hoping that better late than never adage still applies.
However the intransigence and denialism regarding our environmental degradation coming from industry and certain national leaders is disheartening and will be, I fear, eventually deadly....for all of us.
5
@Amanda
Not while any Republicans remain in office and while lobbyists run rampant through the halls of power.
3
@Amanda
Not while any Republicans remain in office and while lobbyists run rampant through the halls of power.
We are besieged by the ubiquitous Styrofoam. When are people going to learn that this stuff is bad for the environment? I stopped delivery of some items because they come packed in Styrofoam, and no longer frequent my favorite take-out place because they use Styrofoam clam-shell take out containers.
29
Depressing, but enlightening to see this company's response to the intensifying blowback against foam - "We don't believe there are good, objective reasons to single out certain materials", and "what are they going to want to do next?". Oh, and renounce your citizenship if taxes on your vast wealth become too onerous.
How about evolving, investing in new materials that aren't actively adding to the despoiling of the planet, admitting what's worked since the 50's might not cut it now. I think as most people are made aware of how pernicious plastics are, they really are trying to change. These manufacturers won't keep making it if if doesn't sell, regardless of how many lawsuits they file to fight the bans.
109
Fast food used to be called street food and wrapped in a strong pastry or bread crust or masa or lettuce or leaves or rice ball or a potato skin so it can be consumed without utensils. No need for mountains of paper.
52
@Carmen
I remember when the go to packaging for fries and fish & chips from the truck was newspaper.
10
Before there was styrofoam, there were paper coffee cups. They had little foldout handles that didn't work so well. I believe the Dixie Cup company Yet still, I absolutely HATED drinking from the styrofoam ones. The taste, the texture, the fingernails-on-the-blackboard squeaky noise. Was glad to see paper cups make a comeback once the craft coffee shops realized taste was more important than heat.
38
Remember the three R's in this order: REDUCE, Reuse, recycle. For most of us, there is no excuse for needing a disposable cup/lid for our beverages.
It is also not clear why switching to "compostable" food trays is better. It requires energy to make those trays (including the transport costs). It would be nice if the NY Times could investigate the energy behind making various forms of food containers and compare it to the energy required to wash reusable containers.
54
@Jennifer (expat) Even better, remember the 5 R's in this order: REFUSE, Reduce, Reuse, Repurpose, Recycle.
8
@Jennifer (expat) That's a wise idea, Jennifer. And, from what I have read, "compostable" may not mean compostable, as we think of it - they only fully degrade in high volume highly controlled environments of "commercial" compost facilities, not your backyard bin. Further, the paper coffee cups, as I understand it, are made with a plastic lining so they won't leak and shouldn't be recycled with ordinary paper.
4
Kind of milking all they can out of the good old meritocracy of the original founders. Isn't time the company evolved to the times and beyond?
79
@Arthur
Under the Trump administration company owners are encouraged to do whatever will generate the most profits without regard to environmental or societal destruction. Why? The prosperity gospel says so and Trump was sent by god to be worshipped. Forward planning and morality don’t enter into this discussion of profits, neither does sanity.
5
Personally I love foam cups. They keep hot drinks hot, and cold drinks cold longer. You don't scorch your fingers like you do with hot coffee in paper cups. Or require an additional paper "holder."
I do a lot of things to minimize my footprint on the environment including recycling, driving a small car, super-insulating my house, PV solar.
I'll give up using foam cups when a quarter of the cars on the road aren't super-size pickup trucks with no passengers and hauling no cargo. When the idiots who "roll coal" get pulled over and ticketed for disabling or removing the emissions systems on their trucks, a federal offense.
QT marts in Arizona give customers a choice of cups. That's the way to go.
6
@Wade Nelson Surely they can make a container that behaves like foam, for a cost effective price. I too am tired of the debate of "well, at least it's something!" that gets applied to everything nowadays. For example, plastic straws. Now everyone is going out and buying expensive reusable straws that have a much greater carbon footprint than the number of plastic straws they will replace, and they think they're doing a good thing. We need common sense regulations, not knee jerk reactions.
7
@Wade Nelson Have you tried a stainless steel travel mug/tumbler? I have one that keeps my coffee hot all day. Literally — it's almost bizarre how it can stay hot by 5 p.m. when I'd filled it at 8:30 a.m. (I don't usually put cold beverages in them, but my husband does with ice water and that stays cold, too.) I didn't realize until recently that coffee shops have no problem filling it up (regular drip or speciality coffee, you name it) and I usually get a discount for bringing it in.
111
@Wade Nelson why not a Keep Cup or similar? bring your own cup, not hard to do
7
I carry with me in a backpack or tote bag (or large jacket pocket) a 12 oz wide-mouth glass Ball jar with lid. Any kind of coffee, especially espresso, tastes enormously better than from a foam or paper cup.
35
"His sons Robert and Kenneth Dart have been involved in running the company, to varying degrees, since the 1980s. ... The Dart brothers’ moves [out of the US] partially spurred the Senate to propose a law in the 1990s closing a tax loophole for expatriates."
Gee. How utterly not-shocking that a co. whose heirs think it's perfectly OK to exploit the US (raised here, educated here, accumulated a fortune from factories here, which rely on US infrastructure and US workers) are fighting to continue producing a product that recklessly takes from, and damages, the planet.
262
@DW99 And let’s not forget Dart’s retaliatory hissy fit of closing a factory and betraying its workers in Maryland. Reprehensible.
38
@DW99 It is called Human Greed. Our form of Government allows it to get out of hand a lot easier than it would if we just chopped the head off the offenders like france did for a while, then it was just as bad under the other rulers, so lesson learned maybe we need alien overlords, Ha.
Just look at current budgets, kill the EPA as much as possible, fund more wars. Kill citizen safety nets, fund wars, Yay wars, oh and Take the Oil, more plastics.
8
@DW99
Too bad the company's leadership is so myopic. Their product is an abomination with what we know today. Does anyone like seeing foam floating down the rivers, washed up on shore or floating in the bay? Nope. Nobody.
I won't do business anywhere that uses foam. I'm not remotely close to alone in that sentiment. If the company can't innovate to stay relevant then I can't shed a tear as they fade into oblivion.
13
Buy some bespoke or custom-made travel coffee mugs or thermoses. Keep a few in your car. Take them everywhere you buy coffee. Most baristas will rinse them out before refilling them. I do this at home and abroad. It says something about the kind of person you are. If I go to a McDonald’s or another takeaway joint here or abroad, I take my own container (from Muji) and compact utensils. Instead of creating paper waste, you have your own reusable covered plate. Take a few cloth napkins too. You’ll feel better. Trust me.
74
@Charlie Chan
I do the same! Cloth napkins... hmmm. I'll have to think on that, paper napkins are just TOO convenient.
1
@Charlie Chan -- I don't want my barista rinsing out everyone's personal cups/containers. Why can't the big outfits (Starbucks) just set-up a self-serve station (like soft drinks at McDonalds). You pay. You take your cup... and you fill-up... YOURSELF.
2
A really important conversation that needs to involve product developers, consumers, and marketers. As on-the-go eating is a fact of life, and so are large events and mass transit, we need good solutions to the disposable food container problem. One of my favorite - which may have some ideas we can learn from - are the clay pots for tea that used to be found in Indian railway stations. After consuming the tea, the terra-cotta pots could be broken and reformulated.
8
Quit buying it. Doesn't take an act of congress or world leaders. Only takes people willing to do the right thing and m a y b e . . . be subject to a slight inconvenience. . . such as using an actual ceramic cup, a paper cup, a re-used glass.
Tell your fast food server you don't want foam. Ask for foil or bring a little container from home to pack left overs. Again it's a slight inconvenience.
165
@Donna V
Exactly correct.
This company, like others who profit while sticking the rest of us with the costs and consequences, will continue to bribe politicians to continue their business. But no amount of political bribery can help if enough people simply refuse to buy/use their products. That's the only way.
54
@Donna V
Ah yes. The good old libertarian method. Which won't change a darn thing.
If I'm on the road, and want a cup of coffee, many stores have only foam cups (although this is changing in the NYC area).
Shall I tote around a ceramic mug in the car? All the time?
Laws get passed to ensure quick, universal compliance. We don't wait for everyone to slow down before we enact speed limits.
19
@Donna V The paper cup has a plastic liner to keep it from leaking. That renders the paper cup non-recyclable in most curb-side recycling programs.
20