Sadly, there's nothing surprising about these revelations.
Nothing surprising about them being Jeffrey Epstein bros. Nothing surprising about all the old white men ogling young models and trying to lure them into having sex.
The culture has been changing, but it needs to change more.
it would be great to see the women running the show at Victoria's Secret. They could probably revitalize the brand and make it relevant again, by diversifying the body types and genders and of the models, and actually modeling clothes besides sexy underwear.
And of course, redefining the culture of the workplace there.
30
What's killing Victoria's Secret is that you can easily buy beautiful underwear on the internet for a lot less money.
32
Let’s expose every one of these creeps! Let’s not stop until they are shamed and handcuffed out of public life, starting with the president of the USA but certainly not stopping there!!!
28
VS has always looked with a soft porn operation to me. None of this surprises me.
39
These men are revolting. But the bottom line is we as a culture have been taught to demean and de-value women according to how they look. The misogyny of the women and men working for this company lived out that philosophy. Women were worth less than men as humans. Equal rights, treating women with respect was not of value to this company. The company existed to demean women at every turn and get rich from it.
546
In short, a then 58-year-old Ed Razek made advances on a 19-year-old employee of his own company, in 2007, as proven by emails that she fortunately preserved. One can only imagine what we don’t know of the horrors this man has inflicted on countless other girls and women of various ages over the course of his 30 or 40 year career.
And he was just the Chief Marketing Officer. Imagine how the CEO and other top executives have behaved, also in ways that will never be revealed. Speaking as a male, heterosexual, professional, let me say this: This is thoroughly disgusting and repulsive. These men have acted like a pack of animals. Let this be cemented into their legacies.
889
@neilends
Why are we just now seeing many reports like this one of 'Weinstein' and this Ed Razek and other men with 'employer' power who force themselves onto women right up to and including rape.
I never saw this kind of behavoir in my many jobs over 60 years , nothing more then a married office mgr. taking a younger secretary to 'lunch' and provoking rumors in the office about it. But my field included mundane offices with book keepers and sales reps. , nothing fashionable or sexy.
Many men with power like to dominate employees, in my experience as a male employee, it was exibited by threats of a reduced bonus , adding extra responsibilities without compensation, asking for favors of an unusual personal task outside of corporate duties.
This is the world over , people in power like to push others around............ look at DT .
32
@neilends well said!
8
Not like a pack of “animals.” A pack of creepy old patriarchal misogynist puerile stunted and entitled white male humans. All these qualities not found in animals.
107
As a former, very popular, yoga teacher of mine once wisely stated in a response to a complaint from a young female participant about how closely crowded we all were on the floor: "In a Mexican restaurant, when you order the taco platter, the beans and rice come with it."
20
@Allen AMEN!
3
What does that mean? I'm missing it entirely.
39
So there is Werner and Razek. Are Epstein and Weinstein involved in this also? What about Moonves, Hoffman, Tambor, Allen, Toback, Ratner, Horowitz, Levine and Schwartz? Are they involved in the troubles at VS also?
10
I got the Victoria's Secret catalog in the '80s, when I was in my 20s. I occasionally flipped through it and could not understand why any young model would degrade herself in this way. In my 20s, I could barely walk down the street in khakis and a white shirt without attracting loads of attention. Young women are, for the most part, incredibly attractive, regardless of the poses they strike or how much they do or don't have on. I have never understood why any woman would so overtly flaunt her sexuality in the workplace or anyplace. This lack of self respect is a magnet for predators, users, and misogynists. For the catalog models, it was obviously about earning money. Shameful. The Victoria's Secret execs were despicable, but the women played a role. If a black man wants to be a respected actor, should he focus on Uncle Tom roles? Women need to stop pretending that they have no power. We have plenty of power when we respect ourselves.
291
@dga classic victim-shaming here. Modeling underwear or any clothing for that matter is not invitation for harassment and mistreatment. Respect for oneself extends to respect for others even when there is a difference of opinion on what constitutes respectable clothing.
139
@dga
Since you were stopping tragic bc of your incredible attractiveness, it seems that you would have more empathy for VS models. VS has had some really big models in their catalogs. Heidi Klum, for example (according to Trump no longer a 10) sad bc he’s just oh so handsome. Being a VS model doesn't give men or women a reason to be exploit them or doubt their intelligence. Modeling is a real job and not an easy one at that. VS used to have nice pajamas and way better stuff in the ’80s and ’90s. If only we treated people as well as PETA wants us to treat animals.
65
@N
"Modeling underwear or any clothing for that matter is not invitation for harassment and mistreatment"...but its plays a major role in promoting and participating into that culture.
52
When will Ohio State take Wexner´s name off the university hospital.
33
It really is time that women stop demeaning themselves by wearing this kind of objectificating clothing.
20
@Xfarmerlaura
Stop the victim-blaming, please. Men need to be taught to control themselves. We need to teach them from little boys on that women are not an "All you can eat" buffet.
38
Straight men getting involved in commercializing sexy women underwear. What could possibly go wrong?
24
If a woman feels she should strut her stuff for a bunch of men, be it for money or fame, she is complicit in the abuses of her sex! I have no pity on the girls, nor, their predators!
18
They signed up to be models, not get hit on by creeps.
30
Victoria's Secret was always about men. Projecting their (impossible) ideals onto the woman, or women, in their lives.
The 2 or 3 times I ventured into a store many years ago, I never saw anything remotely of quality or heaven forbid, comfort and practicality.
And the TV show/special was outright network-sponsored and FCC-permitted prime time porn.
Always creeped me out.
They deserve to fail and fold.
54
It’s the marriage of fantasy porn and cheap merchandise made in China. Or as many “real” Americans would say, wholesome fun. Belongs on a major network during prime time. Their annual lingerie show was beyond weird and creepy.
38
The CEO of Victoria Secrets, John Mehas, and all his boys have created a toxic environment...He is as bad, if not worse than the rest...check him out! Company being run by men who have no clue ...The values the company were founded on are totally ignored by the leadership...it is such a shame! This guy and his followers have run a great company into the ground!
Mehas, Wexner and the rest of the “boys” won’t listen to any ideas or suggestions... they get rid of every strong, intelligent women that works there! Very sad!
Mr. Stewart....you only hit the tip of this iceberg!
19
just looking at the image of those two: wexner and razek...
gives me the creeps...
31
I wondered when we'd get to Branson.
God these guys are gross.
32
I'm shocked. A company run by men and that made its name selling merry widows is misogynistic. crazy. just crazy I tell you. As for the reason they are struggling, look at the merchandise. it is mainly cozy flannel underwear of the Pink line for teens. not sexy at all unless you are a pedophile.
4
Is anyone seriously surprised at this? There are so many instances like this that happened in lots of companies and organizations because men have been in charge and women have been viewed as second class and sex objects for generations. It's disgusting and hopefully with #me too# things are changing for the better but it's obvious there is still a long way to go. Look at fox news as a prime example. Roger Ailes admitted he wanted hot sexy women showing their legs and looking gorgeous to attract the audience. He wanted people to want to watch the channel even if the sound was off. And he had absolute power and created a toxic culture. And you can keep going down the list of how women have been treated. If the NY Times wanted to they could publish articles like this every day for years and years. Sadly none of this is surprising.
11
I went in there once and saw how poorly constructed the lingerie was with low quality fabric. Why would a woman wear that from a shop that was clearly selling a male porn-gazing version of underwear. There is plenty of comfortable attractive underwear out there for a woman to feel comfortable and hot, if that’s the goal for that day or any day. That place is a joke and it’s disgusting that these old guys ran it so (surprise) inappropriately for as long as they did.
12
I've always thought VS was a soft porn version of underwear for women. As soon as I read that Epstein worked with their CEO, I immediately thought of Victoria's Secret little sister brand 'Pink' - grooming the teen market?
22
White Slavery appears to be alive and well, wearing the mask of "fashion."
10
Pink, the Victoria’s Secret brand for teens, has a line named “Date Night” that offers lace thongs. You know, for date nights.
Shocking to know that Pink does not offer crotchless panties to teens.
15
The pictures with this article are very telling especially the one of Razek backstage. Any woman will tell you how they attempt to thwart unwelcome touching if they can.
15
I had the pleasure of meeting Russell a few times.....he didn't seem predatory just a complete knob surrounded by sycophants.
1
"Despised, if ugly; if she's fair, betrayed."
-- Mary Leapor, "Essay on Woman," 1794
18
Why is anyone surprised? The entire premise of those angels and those stupid shows is deeply sexist derogatory.
11
Trolls with money and power— gross as usual
10
Ok then. NYT was on it and “this is nice”. Thank you, journalism
https://nyti.ms/2ZbjDIJ
Their clothes are garbage: cheaply made and for women size zero to8.
Not my idea of femininity!
The catalogues have always been for men similar to Playboy.
Everything about VS says misogyny.
15
This is a perfect picture of these smarmy disgusting men. If only someone could wipe those self satisfied smiles off their faces.
12
"Mr. Razek said in an email: “The accusations in this reporting are categorically untrue, misconstrued or taken out of context."
Hahahaha!! Yeah right, Ed. Whatever.
18
Mr. Wexner was a good friend of the pedophile Mr. Epstein as well and helped to make him wealthy. It appears Mr. Wexner's closet is probably so full of skeletons it is amazing it has stayed "secret" so long.
19
The picture of Wexner and Razek is worth a thousand words: all synonyms for sleazy, pathetic, decrepit and vile.
27
Surprise!
3
Parental guidance suggested-
http://members.efn.org/~hkrieger/m_vicky.jpg
from the series "Mall-aise",
http://members.efn.org/~hkrieger/mallaise.htm
Never have been a fan of Victoria Secret. It was fun to shop in the stores when it was new. It was a lavish and perfumed place with an enormous array of pretty things. However, I think their stuff is cheaply made and the angel thing just annoys me. Who could possibly be comfortable in a diamond brassiere? I'm not really surprised to learn that a crown prince of misogyny sits at the head of this company and the parent company too.
10
Some of this toxic male behavior reminds me of the complaints about Trump backstage at the Miss Universe pageants.
22
The entire company product line was based on misogyny. That would be like being surprised in saying cheerleaders in the NFL are viewed as sexual objects.
9
The picture of those two grotesque beings holding hands will henceforth haunt my nightmares.
15
Never go to HR. Always go to the police & an attorney. HRs job is to protect exes & the company.
42
Is ANYONE surprised by this?
9
NYT's #Me Too expose was truly a watershed in journalism and gender relations across the world. But this piece is mockery of the good work done by Megan Twohey and Jodi Kantor. It reads more like an extension of American evangelical puritanism and prudery. When did asking for phone numbers became a sexual harassment???
5
So you’re saying that a company which sells clothing to objectify women as trashy sexual objects treats women as trashy sexual objects?
Shocking.
16
Reading about the VS culture here is sickening to any decent person. Too bad Wexner and Razek will get away with everything they did.
9
You mean there was someone in the country that didn’t think that VS was just an upscale Fredericks of Hollywood. Didn’t women who work in the soft porn industry which glorifies nudity even consider that they were just meat. Remember the mass murderer who went from Florida to Maine picking up girls in malls to photograph them and then killing them. With all the publicity he still never had a problem finding someone to pose for possible stardom.
5
And no one is surprised.
2
Correct title: “The Culture of Misogyny at Any Corporation In America”
~ Authors, Working Women
10
Surprise! Look who’s in the White House. It’s open season on women
12
Our toxic masculinity- dominated culture is the crux of the problem; young aspiring female models with dreams of being super models are part of that culture. More women are finally starting to push back against longstanding predominant attitudes rampant in toxic masculine dominated culture. I say 'finally' because many of us pushed back a long time ago during the earlier days of the women's liberation movement. Sadly concepts of 'liberated' women often incorrectly included a distorted version of sexual freedom for women that has been coerced and co-opted by people like Wexner who pervert and distort feminine sexuality to fit their own perverted and distorted needs.
We should not blame young girls for wanting to be super models, it is their right to want that glamorous lifestyle. They should NOT be poisoned by creepy men profiting off of them, being inappropriate, exploiting their youth and dreams, using their power to coerce them into compromising situations, posing nude, etc.
I'm glad to see VS culture dying. It is high time we move beyond the gauze, feather and smoke- screened skeeviness to a world where 'sexy' has a wider definition and women are empowered to say no, to eat the extra helping of food, to keep their panties on, to be well paid for their work in front of or behind the cameras, and enjoy their healthy femininity free of toxic influences.
12
I'm shocked. SHOCKED!!! That a corporation with such an archaic and constrained view of female sexuality would embrace misogynistic culture.
4
not only creepy behaviour but creepy looking too.
8
Didn't I read this exact same story about NFL cheerleaders a few years ago?
6
Perhaps it's more accurate to say that the VS catalogue defined femininity for men rather than it did for women. So it's no surprise or newsflash that models were treated like porn stars.
act, I would like to know what basis the authors have for saying that millions of women defined femininity as the softcore porn mag that flooded one's mailbox disguised as advertising. Did they survey? Did they just look at sales? Who made those purchases?
Most women I know thought the advertising degrading, the merchandise poorly made costumery. But this article seems to treat as news what was obvious.
8
It’s hard to say which of the men in this story was the grossest and most exploitive in terms of the women-as-inhuman-objects attitude ingrained in most men’s brains even in the year 2020.
But I’ll pick Russell James, the Aussie “mate” with his $3,000 book of Victoria’s Secret models who received zero renumeration for him using their nude and semi-nude pictures to make a dollar profit. Like, it’s such an honor “mate” should have deigned to take their picture, they should forgo being paid. He ought to be run out of New York after being stripped naked, tarred and feathered with VS “angel” feathers.
Everybody: stop the dehumanization of people who are female by boycotting VS and Bath & Body Works, they do not deserve to survive as businesses.
14
First Sterling Jewelers, whose culture of sexual exploitation The Times exposed last year in the Sunday Magazine, now Victoria's Secret. Merchandising "romance" as a front for noxious sexual behavior. Is it any wonder we have a president for whom it wasn't a deal breaker?
7
What ever happened to “never again”? Have the lessons of history not been learned by any one? Seems that Leslie Wexner, Jeffery Epstein’s beat friend and confidant and friends will that other luminary and under age sexual abuser, Alan Dershowitz have a value system that demands public sympathy, even as their criminal activities are still in progress.
6
Great. I read the article and now have to take a long, hot shower to get the stink of lechers off of me.
6
You just have to search, not subscribe.
The Epstein Case, Who is Lex Wexner, and How Is He Connected to Jeffrey Epstein? July 26, 2019, New York Magazine. Emilia Petrarch
3
There are other brands out there.
Do not support sexual exploitation and misogyny. Buy your underwear somewhere else.
7
Unfortunately sexual objectification abounds culturally: whether it’s a burka or a bikini
8
Where is Ghislaine Maxwell and why is she enjoying impunity?
9
Hopefully this piece will be a nail in L Brands’ coffin. It’s given me the heebie jeebies just to read how these adult men preyed on young women and girls. This has to be one of the most disgusting and sordid corporate stories I’ve ever seen.
Those predators designed underwear for 15-22 year olds that said things like/
Kiss Me
Unwrap Me
Let’s Get A Room
Gold Digger
Get Wild
Party With Me
All Nighter
Smile if You’re Easy
Just GROSS.
18
Leslie Wexner and Ed Razek. Apparently both of these sexual predators were Victoria’s “Open” Secret. Sickeningly predictable.
5
I find the photo of the two "Steerers" of Victoria's Secret more interesting than the photos of their models. They look like two little school boys who just peeped in the window of their third grade teacher and watched her undress. Or two vultures who dine on the carcass of what's left of the fashion industry. Can't decide. I'll stick with Chanel and her LBD.
9
Why am I not surprised.
1
One if the most telling things about this article is that it's in the business section, not the style section
6
Well..was trying to hold on and keep my Equinox membership. But, the sleeve=bag Mr. Wexner owns it, and since he has done nothing to rectify the way his company deals with women and ethics —- boycott Equinox.
7
VS Did Not Define Femininity for Me.
May it crash n burn.
5
I think it is well past the time that the NYT creates a special section (on-line tab) for these stories for those really interested at this point.
3
Regardless of this article, years ago I got suckered into buying their products. After a couple of years wearing their products I found them to be cheap and over-priced garbage.
4
How could such a shallow and pathetic phenomena be any other way?
3
I never knew what Wexner and Razek looked like. But seeing their picture they look just like I imagined.
6
Ohio State should return the donations.....but, of course, they won't. Exploiting women is just fine if you're rich...
6
Umm, not sure anyone is surprised Victoria's Secret marketed sex or favored thin women. It's been out there in the open all this time.
3
Defined femininity for women? Perhaps some. But for most of us who shopped there it was just a place to buy relatively cheap and ordinary bras and underpants. True, you had to walk past the bondage lite kinds of stuff, but the sales were in day to day stuff. Sure, it defined sexiness for a lot of guys who never set foot in the place. As for the sexual assaults, I have no doubt that it was a common feature of the culture of the company whose ads were really focused less on what women wanted and more on what guys thought was sexy. But I'm left with a question: could there be two less sexually appealing men than the two pictured in the article? Wait, I forgot: there's always Harvey Weinstein and of course Donald Trump to give them a run for their money.
10
Is it news ? It is actually expected in an era when our top man in the White House is not better example - refer the Hollywood Tape
2
I don’t understand why the Times is trying to make the photographer out to be a bad guy. All of the models he photographed nude gave him their consent to do so, and to have their photos included in his “Angels” book. Why anyone would pay $1800 - $3600 for a book that features the same women you can see for free wearing next to nothing in their catalog or online is beyond me, but yay capitalism for him.
12
Next you should investigate L’Oreal. They are exactly the same and anyone who reports the behavior that goes on there—misogynists, bullies and all around toxic work environment—they turn a blind eye as well. They breed a culture of fear.
8
Cheap, poorly made, ill-fitting mass market junk. They deserve to go out of business. People who wear lingerie deserve beautiful garments that are inclusive across size ranges and (gasp!) gender lines.
6
Culture of Misogyny at Victoria's Secret? This has got to be the least surprising headline of the day.
8
I went into a VS Store, twice, at a Mall. Didn’t purchase a thing, even two decades also. It was “ fast fashion “ before anyone else, but at exorbitant prices, for very cheaply made and horribly designed “ clothing “. A Male idea of what “ sexy “ women wore. IF those Women were genetic freaks, compared to 95 percent of the Female population. And, if those women were part time streetwalkers in Vegas. Laughably cheap and Tacky.
Seriously.
10
When beautiful women stop agreeing to be objectified with an eye to super-stardom, perhaps these lecherous fools will treat them with more respect. But, alas, there's tremendous power in turning heads and once the practice gleans a paycheck as well, a very old game comes into play.
14
A lot of comments here seem to be missing the forest through the trees.
There's nothing wrong with women or men, liking buying wearing cheap sexy lingerie. There just isn't. Being prudish is a question of taste as is being tacky.
What's wrong is abuse.
Actions are not the same as fantasies.
There are no wrong thoughts.
Don't believe me? It's in the legal system.
Abuse is illegal and it needs to stop.
The part you think is tacky or poor taste. You can avoid it easily enough if you don't like it. Raging against the type of men or women you don't like is not a battle against either misogyny or abuse and it doesn't help the victims either.
13
Wait! Stop the presses! Victoria's Secret was salacious and misogynistic? No!
3
VS could just as well have been named Barbie’s Belles.
1
Clothing that women buy in order to entice and excite men. Sigh. Ladies, we’re doing it to ourselves. :(
3
The premise here is that Victoria’s Secret sells femininity. The premise is wrong. It sells sexiness and sex.
4
“I’m shocked, shocked, to find that ... is going on in here.”
1
I am in no way religious anymore and was probably leaving religion around the time the "angels" started; but have always been offended/disgusted by the whole "angels" thing. It's either (or both) making light of religion and/or women - we're all suppposed to be angels. And I say this as someone who bought a lot of items from Victoria's Secret back in the day. But I never cared for the whole stupid angel thing or the angel "fashion show"
6
A strip club in the name of commerce.
11
How is anyone surprised?
2
I think women should be in charge at VS.
Woman CEO
Woman CFO
surround a man with the most beautiful women in the world and expect him not to ask some of them over for dinner? ha!
2
The first thing I did after reading this article was to unfollow Richard Branson and his "charities" on Instagram.
7
Victoria's Secret defined "femininity" for men, not women.
You can read about it in Susan Faludi's "Backlash."
Men bought sexy lingerie that they hoped their wives/girlfriends would put on for them.
Women shopped the sales on underwear.
7
A la Trump - Access Hollywood “ you can do anything to them”.
2
Mr. Florentino in Dublin, Ohio is completely right— it’s embarrassing and scandalous having Wexner’s name imprinted in neon, all over the OSU campus. This pair of sleazy, amoral opportunists are relics from decades ago. Can’t their much younger wives at least clue them in to what is acceptable in today’s society? Not that it was Ever morally appropriate to prey on and cheat employees.
7
Two old, horny men are exposed for the lechers they are. The business model of Victoria’s Secret is dated. Women have moved way beyond its fantasy creations. Men simply don’t get who women are and that they think and act differently than men. This flaw permeates much of our culture and business world. In a recent documentary Taylor Swift pointed out that as her career began, she saw her goal as pleasing others, pleasing millions of anonymous audience members, pleasing advertisers. This was something she had learned as a girl. She said that recording executives told her what “nice girls” are expected to do. Then she had an epiphany and changed. And she continued to be successful. Victoria’s Secret management seems to have failed to make a similar change. It has fallen into a rut that was dug by greedy men. It purveyed feminine “beauty” while most women were looking for something more.
10
The entire concept was set up to satisfy the male gaze. Increasingly, the high-school boy gaze.
C'mon, folks...it may have been high (nudge-nudge, wink-wink) concept 20-30 years ago, but it's mostly "Pink" on the seat of a pair of sweatpants for teenage girls now.
The entire line went downmarket in the age of the Internet. Cheap mall boudoir wear, now.
As for models? They need their day in court, and if the old geezers are guilty, rob them of their wealth and freedom.
2
no kidding. wow. i'm shocked.
1
Good story but needs more reporting. How and why did Wexner let Jeffrey Epstein manage his fortune for so long? What special qualifications did Epstein have to do that work?
As a billionaire, Wexner could have hired just about anyone and yet he gave the job to a sex criminal who didn't even have a college degree! There has got to be more to this story.
And then let's consider the fact that AG Bill Barr's father, then head of the prestigious New York City day school Dalton, also hired Epstein as a teacher at one of the most fashionable, respected and expensive schools in New York. Hired a college drop out with no BA to teach at a ritzy school in Manhattan. Again, Barr as head of Dalton could easily have hired Ivy League graduates, probably Ivy League graduates with advanced degrees, for that plum teaching job in a top private school in a top location. But instead he hires someone with no degree, who also happens to be a sex criminal and pedophile!
Does lightning strike in the same place twice?
18
Any surprise here?
2
I'm shocked -- shocked! -- that old, powerful white men in charge of Victoria's Secret engaged in sexual harassment of women in lingerie. Without this searing exposé, I never would have guessed.
2
Why do women continue to express outrage about a few particularly bad behaving men against the backdrop of Victoria’s Secret’s very existence. Unless and until women stop participating in the entire institution, the individual actions are kind of small potatoes.
3
Victoria’s Secret was never actually about what women wanted—it was about what men wanted. Hardly a secret, anyway.
12
This type of behavior is old news in the modeling world.
Having had friends who modeled in NY in the 1970's
heard that modeling agencies would encourage them to go to parties where captains of industry happen to be. You were to sleep with these guys, they might give you a tip. The agency would not want you around if you didn't comply. Well known that fashion photographers who were not gay-tried to sleep with every model they met. Nude photos always asked for.
8
It is beyond me how anyone can look at a Victoria's Secret ad or display or store or not think the message is: trashy.
I remember when Dov Charney was running American Apparel, and the ads were similarly trashy, and I refused to let my daughters shop there....because it was clear that women were being exploited to sell badly made garments.
So, none of this is surprise. I similarly nixed Victoria's Secret, years ago.
5
I appreciate how the photos used in this article are not contributing to the demeaning treatment of women (no scantily clad skin pictures) and instead further the subject of toxic masculinity with pictures of men with each other, and the audience / consumer (the poster behind the escalator and the "fashion show" audience looking at the production and stage from afar with only a leg and mostly "wings" or whatever as representative of the model) and one with a fully clothed model. The photos show MEN (grabbing the model's wrist appearing aggressive and pointing to each other, looking ridiculous.) Good job curating the photos.
5
I profoundly despise the entire victoria's secret enterprise. The male sense of superiority is about to collapse on itself. Woman have always been solo operators, men were trained to be strategic and derive their strength from numbers. When woman start to do the same they will become a force to contend with. I can't wait to see them take dawn their fake enterprises and fake entitlements , bring them dawn to their senses by becoming financially totally independent and better educated. The only edge man have is financial means and their lobe sided decaying patriarchy, both on their way to extinction.
1
Women bought and loved Victoria Secret. This cannot be blamed on men. If no one bought the product it would have failed long ago. The stereotype of the perfect angel was enhanced by women also.
11
“Victoria’s Secret defined femininity for millions of women.”
How very sad indeed, that one’s underwear should define one’s Identity and sense of one’s worth. It is positively primitive. That such a vision of womanhood still finds acceptance in the 21st century is a sickening thought. And that young women are willing to collaborate with that vision for the sake of money and fame is all the more disturbing.
6
If aliens land tomorrow and ask "Why does there seem to be so much cultural hostility towards the males on this planet?", all anyone has to do is show them any Victoria's Secret show.
"This. THIS is why. Because men have somehow made women believe they have to do THIS to have value in this world."
THAT'S why.
Any other questions?
4
The fact remains that Wexner is connected to Ruzek & Epstein. He is in the middle of it all. Let’ stop pretending otherwise. The real question is will Wexner buy himself out of an investigation?
4
The inclusion of the picture of Wexner and Razek is enough to scare an aspiring model to death. Obviously, it didn't work but these two men and many of their cohorts should be jailed. When you add in Epstein, the whole facade comes tumbling down.
2
I am not surprised. Why would anyone believe that this brand was a “celebration of femininity”? Our culture’s ideas of female sexuality and empowerment are completely debased. Another massive exercise in making sure women believe in and adhere to the venal, debasing standards of male pornography.
4
Another story about another creepy, powerful man, using power to take sexual advantage of young, beautiful women he would have no access to were it not for money & control of opportunity - abetted by other wealthy powerful men, all of whom regard women as inferiors, and chattel for their personal exploitation & enjoyment. I cannot help but think - again - what is wrong with men?,
2
Is anyone really surprised by this? Victoria's Secret did not "define femininity" for many more millions of women than it did. Many of us saw it as an overpriced store with slinky lingerie that we might wear in our fantasies of first-time sex with a beau or husband. To us, it is no surprise that a company that objectified women in skimpy undergarments also embodied a culture of bullying, harassment and more. One just had to look at their products and their sleazy TV specials to figure that out.
3
The image Victoria‘s Secret had given itself put me off the first time I saw a store and read about its shows. This, combined with bad quality underwear, made it easy for me not become a customer.
4
I have always seen the VS merchandise as sleazy, expensive sleazy, but sleazy nevertheless. I was dating a man who asked me "How do you feel about a man giving his girlfriend VS for her birthday and I told him that I thought that it was like a little boy giving his mother a baseball bat for Christmas." I had the "joy" of opening a gift that was a negligee with the front cut out- in front of his 9 year-old son. To say the least, the relationship did not last long.
My point is, the misogyny of the VS should come to no surprise and I have no doubt that they were sorry- sorry that they were exposed for what they really are.
5
No wonder Wexner and Epstein were pals: two peas in a pod.
4
No surprise here. Feels like a store owned by men with women presented as objects. I’m really sick of the gigantic photos outside the stores of silicone breasted women, with ogling men strolling by. Ugh.
Lingerie stores don’t have to have this atmosphere. Some don’t.
6
If you are a size 12 or over, VS does not have anything to fit you. They think all women are a size 2. Sorry, I like my curves, I do not want to be rail thin.
5
NYT, it would be great to have an article focusing on the rise of inclusively sized and diverse lingerie brands and companies that have risen in the past five or so years, that have contributed to the takedown of Victoria's Secret's grossly out of touch marketing and their, quite frankly, horrible quality of product.
There are a lot of women-led startups in the space that deserve your coverage just as much as these disgusting old white men, as well as larger corporate brands that are getting the message. Women are choosing to spend their dollars elsewhere, whether that's at Third Love or Aerie or even Target's new (and pretty good!) bra line. And as a millennial who grew up with the Victoria's Secret angel touted as the ideal woman, I'm really grateful for it.
2
really! Victoria's Secret was about a half-step ahead of
Frederick's of Hollywood...
2
Fredrick's had great bras. They had the cheap and sleezy loungewear later. But I remember the catalogs featuring expensive bras, with drawn illustrations, so you could appreciate the details.
1
I’m shocked. Shocked! To find out that gambling is going on in here.
1
Oops. I think you got the first sentence wrong. Victoria’s Secret did not define femininity for millions of women — unfortunately, it defined femininity for men.
5
From day one, VS struck me as women objectifying. I am stunned that opinions here reflect surprise that there was this awful, misogynistic culture at the very top. Stop saying it's okay to pose women in underwear looking as if they're inviting you to enjoy them. The apparel is just the vehicle.
3
Thank god I don't care about the heterosexuals' males desires. I really feel for women, but they usually side with men in the end against their own sisters.
4
The Epstein subtext is all you need to know. This company is heading down the tubes and quick.
4
Bath and Body Works, Victoria's Secret, and The Limited are about all that is left as anchor stores in our once very busy mall. To think that keeping the mall alive would depend on supporting unethical businesses seems untenable. It simply must be time to shut them all down and move on in life without pink undies. I think I can live with that depravation.
4
It's creepy that these two old guys are in charge of a woman's lingerie company. And, now in light of the charges against them it's even creepier. Ugh.
8
“Nobody goes to a plastic surgeon and says, ‘Make me fat' . . . "
A true statement. What's the problem?
5
One look at their catalogue is enough to tell anyone that this is a misogynistic enterprise. Come on!
6
You men the rich men take care of the rich men no matter what they do? Sounds like the Senate
5
Seriously how can anyone be surprised at the corporate culture in a company that so degraded women with its products and its advertising? Did anyone expect those guys to be radical feminists?
5
It's like a high end cigar store for the elite!
"The sign says ya gotta have a membership card to get inside"
It will never end as money corrupts absolutely and sex is the biggest PR marketing tool in the universe! As long as humans have private parts, the 'publick' will buy into anything portraying them!
It's human nature; we are animals first and foremost, regardless of civility, cosmetics or attire.
Wexner’s name is plastered all over Columbus. To wit:
“Ohio State Wexner Medical Center is a leader in central Ohio ....With a variety of services and locations throughout Ohio...” and so forth. Might it be time to carefully examine all this?
6
Karma is slow in coming but when it does, it hits hard. This isn't "boys being boys," this is and will always be "predators committing felonies." Wexnar and Razek should be prosecuted.
8
So tired of young women volunteering their bodies to be put on display as nothing more than sex objects, then when they are treated like one, they are shocked and dismayed, whatever happened to feminism???
7
Great article and among the authors, I regularly read — and trust — James B Stewart. No one gets corporate “inside intel” like he does (and that’s not to diminish the other authors of this article). This is, sadly, added to the pile of articles about powerful men, young pretty girls and power. I am pleased the Times now refers to Jeffrey Epstein as a “sex criminal” and not a “disgraced financier”.
These stories have become so regular as to become “normal”. VS’s days are long past as girls and women look to other brands (and I suspect the days of “fancy soaps sold in malls” is also just about done. L Brands may have a hard time finding a buyer).
5
My fervent wish is that power tripping, exploiting, abusive men become an extinct breed. The Weinsteins, the Epsteins,the Wexners and yes our President Trump, are just a few examples of how powerful, toxic males use their positions and wealth to violate women. Clearly every workplace and every business relationship needs to question its culture and cleanse itself of anyone who cannot adhere to ethical standards of behavior.
7
I've always hated the brand, and was heartsick when those runway shows became a sensation. It set us back many years, and helped boost the legitimization of toxic and overt objectification of women as objects of pleasure for men, all the while masqurading as feminine empowerment. Much like Playboy's vision of "female empowerment" through the comodification of their bodies, women become complicit in their own degradation. Anyone who would think this behavoir wouldn't be rampantin a culture like that is a fool. That is the point of the culture. Full access to women's bodies.
6
At age 13, my daughter was approached at the mall by a card carrying representative of the Wilhelmina Modeling Agency.
We advised her against this type of career and told her to focus on “decorating the inside of her head instead of the outside”.
I’m so glad she listened.
12
To those that think these women shouldn’t participate in working for a company like VS:
I think we forget that many of the women who get into modelling come from small towns in South America and Eastern Europe. Many of them start when they’re 12-13 years old, unchaperoned.
Most don’t speak English. They’re often shipped off to Japan and New York where they’re immediately indebted to their agency.
They pay exorbitant monthly fees to live in crowded dorms. They owe their agency money for each of the polaroids taken. They don’t have money to fly home, and pay off their debt. They’re often preyed on by their agents. Many are sent to dinners to accompany older men. If they say no, they lose potential work.
If they can survive and gain enough work to get out of debt - this is their career choice - there’s no back up plan. They need to be successful.
VS promises to make them household names. Some of them do make millions. Just a handful. Its unlikely that women will say no to the opportunity VS would bring. It’s just the next step in their career ladder.
I understand that some people here have less sympathy for them, think that they should reject jobs and stop working for companies that exploit them. But, the whole industry is exploitation with no child labor laws in place.
It’s standard practice and it’s easy to acclimatize to it when it means survival and the continual ability to send money home and lift your family out of certain poverty.
15
@Veronica Thank you for that perspective. It gives better insight to portions vaguely familiar world.
2
I've still got some catalogs from before The Limited bought them, from the late 1970s-early 80s. Back then, there was one store in San Francisco, and a growing physical catalog.
One issue includes Geena Davis, before she was a movie star.
Eventually, the then-owner committed suicide, and the company was sold. The rest is misogyny...
4
For some reason, when I was walking my dog, she wanted to go in the VS store. Once inside, she could not get out of there fast enough. I’m sure she picked up on the creepy atmosphere.
6
People must understand. HR exists to protect the company FROM employees who can't work, break laws, prevent other employees from working properly, and those whose behavior stops the company from making money - the company's only true purpose.
The purpose of the company is not protecting people from predators, stopping harassment, or making life pleasant for people. A company ONLY does this when doing so will make more money rather than making less/costing more.
In this case the management team always made more money than models. HR protected the money makers.
If you are threatened, abused, harassed, coerced, or treated unfairly at work, the only entities who have your interest in mind are unions, lawyers, or the police. One visit to HR will show you who they work for.
49
@Moved To Comment Yep. My advice is to collect your own evidence, line up your witnesses, and go to the media. And don't back down. Do exactly the opposite of what they expect you to do.
5
Wouldn’t it be great if companies worldwide insisted that their products be used (or, in this case, worn) by its board members and top executives (all of ‘em).
VS’s options would be:
1. More women directors/senior execs.
2. Men in top positions wear VS underwear, robes, whatever.
Although I’d prefer 1., I’d very willingly accept either (or both).
11
@David H Do the men have to wear bras and panties ?
1
My friends and I consistently shopped at Victoria’s Secret and their line “Pink” from middle school until I graduated from college in 2014. All my little sister wanted for her birthday years ago was a Pink sweatshirt. Although Ed Razeck appears to be the epitome of misogyny he clearly excelled at his position as Chief Marketing Officer. I remember you could look across campus and see multiple groups of girls clad in Pink yoga pants and hoodies. In our developing minds we thought the brand was what they projected it to be but in reality I’m disgusted that we spent our money supporting that company for so long. I’m also unpleasantly surprised that pretty much every female in my life and I have inadvertently supported L Brands by purchasing Bath & Body Works products. As I’ve moved further into adulthood and become more informed I’ve tried to be more cognizant of the companies I buy from and what they stand for but this article is a great reminder to continue doing that.
51
As a former business journalist covering executives and major brands in Columbus, I find it frustrating and unfortunate that this level of meaningful investigative reporting could only come from a publication outside of L Brands' hometown. Much like the Cardinal Health opioid scandal, these serious corporate investigative articles were not within the budgetary reach of our small staff, nor were they prioritized by the former publisher of the Dispatch Magazine Group during my tenure in 2012-2016. I hope the Times and other major publications will continue their work covering the wealthy and powerful in cities like ours.
43
I hope that younger people can appreciate experiences like mine. In the 80's and 90's, the mood was more like, "Dear Mr. Man, please approve of me so that you do not completely ruin my reputation and career". If you were protected by a man in a position of power, you could get away with a polite rebuff. If not, if you didn't get approval one way or another, you were finished, and if Mr. Man felt like it, he would go out of his way to end you. Mr. Trump epitomizes this revenge-based retaliatory obsession with polishing off those who don't support him AS HE SEES FIT.
It's a very different world than it was even five years ago. I understand that it's very difficult to imagine a world where men were almost exclusively in charge and acted very badly whenever they wanted to, but it was real, and I was in NYC and lived it.
I'm so happy that it's changing!
71
@Mary Frances
That happened to you in NYC in the 80's and 90's???
WOW did we have different experiences. Mine were very happy and empowered.
But, the few bad experiences I did have with a manager or boss was when it was a female.
Fancy that.
4
@Mary Frances I’m having that experience right now, actually, so I totally believe you. We’re not equal yet. Still have a long way to go.
7
It's being revealed and minimally responded to by those in power. Given that Trump is still president and those involved with Epstein and, more likely than not, involved in his hideous trade remain engaged in a huge cover-up—some of whom may also be covering up an assassination—I won’t go so far as to say it's changing. The jury hasn’t even met yet, and it's doubtful that it ever will. I fear we're merely being assuaged.
3
Poor quality goods sold by low-life guys who pick friends and spend time with people like Epstein.
But I think this story goes too far in its ranting.
It attacks a photographer who it says is popular with models, who it says puts them at ease when they work, who it says got their consent to do nude photos. Those photos available on line carefully cover those bits that are clearly without clothing, and the resulting photos are excellent. While they are "unpaid" they have signed consents. They are no doubt part of the women's portfolios and quite valuable to their future work.
This is what models do. This is how they get work, excellent photographers doing excellent work they can show in their portfolios. This is what good photographers do for them.
He didn't attack them, he put them at ease. He didn't exploit, if he got consent and the resulting work is useful to the models' future careers. They chose to be models, so they need a portfolio.
20
@Mark Thomason I don't work in the business, but IMHO, this *is* business. If you have a problem with it, move on!
3
That is what models do...WHEN THEY ARE BEING PAID TO WORK. At the end of the day, these women are models TO MAKE MONEY. I am a professional photographer in New York City. If photographers stand to profit (i.e. sell coffee table books for upwards of $1000), the ethical and professional thing to do is to pay the models who are in the photos... the people who make the book possible. To do otherwise is exploitation.
61
@JJ The professional thing to do before modelling is to set the fee. That's how all business works.
Why should this be any different?
12
I'm sad and embarrassed that I didn't recognize Victoria's Secret for what it now appears it was. I guess some of my gullibility was it's mainstream presence in so many American malls. Along a similar line though, I'm persistently struck by the accepted differences in athletic attire between men's and women's professional sports events.
34
@tjsiii Why should you be embarrassed? We all shop at stores, many of which are household names, that are involved in activities we might not approve of.
Look no further than your bureau or chest of drawers to find articles of clothing produced in sweatshop factories in other parts of the world. Sexy panties and sexy bras are not the most offensive things you'll find in our world.
@tjsiii Agreed!
1
The "angel" shows have never appealed to me.
Women & girls make up half the world's population. Yet in every single society, they face pressure almost from infancy to achieve a particular exterior appearance; they are judged, criticized & lectured if they fall short; while eating (and what child does not need to eat?) they may face dangerously obsessive discussions about how food "might make them unattractive & thereby unsuccessful in life, or unworthy of being loved." All this, without the least concern for actual medical health parameters. Your heredity gave you "the wrong shape or features? Easy to fix with surgery!"
But there is also this: I have bought undergarments from VS since they opened. It is much easier to pop into a specialty store for these essentials than to waste time in a department store. The service is better. The selection available used to be much better about 15 years ago. Prices are OK & the garments are mostly comfortable.
What women have to deal with in life is awful. I had no idea VS was vicious to its women; for years, I somehow assumed it was a company run by women. I will certainly reconsider shopping there ever again!
But, please, somebody, come up with some better designs & more comfortable undergarments. Because a comfortable, well-fitting bra that doesn't fail, doesn't scratch, doesn't pinch, doesn't warp the outerwear's fit, reveals/conceals what is best revealed/concealed is actually not that common.
Women & girls deserve quality.
48
@Maria Ashot
Shop REI, EMS, Jockey, and the hiking stores. Designed for women who move and are athletic but not into discomfort for appearance.
16
@Maria Ashot There are companies out there who do exactly what you're looking for, in an inclusive and nonjudgemental way. While I doubt the NYT will allow specific identification, one might poke around the web with the keywords "underwear gender size inclusive."
8
@Maria Ashot
I never found the product to be comfortable enough to purchase and realized it wasn't designed for women at all.
The catalog was similarly designed for the male gaze and at my house we humorously referred to it as porn and joked that it should have a plain wrapper. No doubt many an adolescent kept a few copies under their mattresses and perhaps that has contributed to the misogyny we are experiencing today.
3
I worked with Ed Razek for years and never witnessed anything remotely like the behavior described in this article. If some of the details are true, Ed should atone for them, but a number of the insinuations made in this article are blatantly false. Anyone who works in the fashion marketing industry who reads this article will immediately realize how unlikely some of the salacious details about casting for the VS fashion show shared here are. Conflating Ed Razek with Epstein, is just irresponsible, nothing Razek allegedly did is a crime, at best it’s boorish behavior.
23
@Rusty Pepper IMHO, just because it did not happen to you does not mean that it did not happen to others.
120
@Pam, thanks and I understand your POV. Your correct, anything is possible, but I have first hand knowledge and the authors of this article do not. Not everything you read in the NYT or any news outlet is accurate. Most people who have been part of an event or subject that becomes "news" realize afterwards how imperfect reporting can be. IMHO, this is an example of imperfect reporting.
15
@Rusty Pepper How? It features "first hand" accounts from women on the receiving end of this "boorish behavior." If you didn't witness Razek's actions, fine. But you aren't in any position to dispute actions or behaviors you didn't witness.
16
The millions of women who daily walk right past a VS store and take our money else where, are making our final comment on the marketing and merchandise.
140
When I was in high school a friend applied for a job at VS, just to work as a salesperson/cashier. It was over 20 years ago and I still remember her recounting how they examined her teeth, took her hands and inspected every nail. I've been skeeved out ever since. The one or two times I've bought bras there, they've fallen apart almost immediately. Trash on more than one level.
528
The merchandise has always been trashy, cheaply made, and ill-fitting. My daughter was briefly interested in their products when she was around 13. I went with her a few times to shop there. I steered her toward the more reasonable items and was relieved when she was no longer interested by the time she entered high school. I have never bought anything there for myself. Wouldn't touch the junk with a ten foot pole.
247
@Lee
Who brings a 13-year-old daughter to VS to shop? I'd have steered my past the door and not have gone in.
48
@Lee
Actually, in the early days, VS offered real silk fabrics and lovely design. Then it cheapened and switched to man made mass produced schlock under the Wexner empire.
And yeah, what parent lets a 13-year-old shop there??
55
Victoria’s Secret has an entire product line called Pink designed for teenagers and young adults. When I was younger it was extremely popular for middle schoolers, high schoolers, and college students to shop there.
47
There is an undercurrent in these comments that suggests that the women who posed and modeled ‘got what they deserved.’ Good girls wouldn’t do stuff like that and ‘what did they think was going to happen?’
At every turn, whether sexual assault, sexual harassment, there is part of society’s mind that are still ready to pounce on any part of a woman’s story they can possibly be blamed for.
There is also part of society that still objects to, “the tease.” Women flaunting sexuality in front of men, but men aren’t allowed to touch. Part of our society still wants to punish these women, have them ‘get what they deserved.’ A sexy woman walking down the street in attractive clothes complaining about ‘cat calls’ is seen as the height of hypocrisy.
If you really want to see it, imagine that instead of a woman dressed up, see a heterosexual man in a suit and while he walks by a construction worker site where they are all burly, muscle-bound gay men, they all cat call to him, yell at him that ‘he wants it.’
In short, there are multiple undercurrents in our society that help to justify sexual harassment and sexual assault.
If you don’t believe me, look to Trump who bragged that he could sexually assault women with impunity and then was elected President. Rather than automatically and definitively be seen as unfit for office, males saw him as a hero – White, wealthy and male, taking what he wanted, what he deserved, what he earned.
413
@SMcStormy Being a VS model is not an admirable profession, in my opinion. We would do well as a society to return sexuality to being a more private affair. This in no way excuses assault on anyone, but modesty is a virtue for a reason.
43
@SMcStormy You are correct. But you avoid the truth that we females can say no to such victimhood, by refusing employment with such companies, by publicly exposing such behavior, by encouraging boycott of products, by "giving the knee" to males who assault with unwanted touching. This is called WomanPower. Go for it!
43
@Thomas
Modesty is a quality some people prize. It is not necessarily a virtue.
49
There is nothing wrong with beautiful young women wanting to wear whatever they think will attract/arouse men, and nothing wrong with men who find those women desirable. The issue is not
sexuality; it's turning these normal drives into crass marketplace commodities.
Discussion here is heavily focused on the purported poor quality and lack of comfort of VS products; this is not the point. Some women like the style, some men do. The question is: Are there abuses going on?
23
Can I make a suggestion? For this or any other company that you find objectionable, boycott their products/services. Since the only thing that counts in current day America is the almighty dollar, hit them where it hurts.
Nothing else will change anything. We can complain all day about evil CEOs and other executives, but they only care about one thing.
38
When will EVERYONE grow up. Follow the money. All are complicit.
18
As a much younger woman, still a teenager at 17, I was interested in modeling. Between the creepy photographer who the agency I spoke with recommended for headshots and the very uncomfortable audition for an MTV hosting spot I went for, I could tell immediately what that world was about. I received a call back from MTV and didn’t go. I went to college and never looked back. While the behavior of these men is horrible, we as women have to know our worth and refuse to be objectified.
90
@LN .
It can happen to women in ANY field, not just modeling. Why should anyone's career opportunities in any kind of work be limited by the threat of sexual coercion?
9
Just walking down the street we are objectified.
8
As a high school teacher, I see the end results of a misogynistic fashion industry everyday. Why is it that girls' clothes get tighter and more revealing while by boys' clothes get looser and less revealing? Adolescents tend to wear what everyone else is wearing and what they see on their numerous screens, and this, of course, is defined by the fashion industry.
60
Parents, teachers and school counselors: regardless of your means, help your children (especially girls) adopt a mindset of providing for their own financial stability, starting with their school studies - even if they have no intention or aptitude for a conventional college education. My immigrant parents had very little money but urged their three children at a young age to always have our “own money” and what constituted a Plan B - so we wouldn’t be exploited by anyone, at work or elsewhere. My heart and mind go out to these young women who fantasized from their pre-teen mirrors about being ogled, envied and compensated for their beauty, only to be stuck as young adults in situations where they were exploited as if they were prostitutes with no other opportunity or skills to earn a living. The story about the PR woman who was excoriated by the VS thug for wanting seconds at a banquet is horrifying, to say the least.
32
@Liz DiMarco Weinmann
Unfortunately, this also happens to women in any field where there is a male power imbalance, including STEM, arts, and professional careers, especially at the highest levels. Being self-supporting is important, but no guarantee you won't get blackballed from the career you love and have spent a lifetime preparing for.
10
I get a chuckle from the occasional news stories about local officials caught misusing their govt credit cards. It always looks bad when the official rings up a charge to Victoria’s Secret. If it’s a male, the purchase is for a paramour; if it’s a female, the purchase is usually to impress an affair partner. Busted!
3
@Iconic Icon You think that's funny. Some guys I was acquainted with in business were Account Executives schmoozing potential clients for hundreds of thousand of dollar contracts went over the edge.
They actually submitted tabs from strip joints as entertainment expenses! A lot of the time, the charges were billed to "parent" companies that had no obvious connection to the business actually providing the service and collecting the charges. But what a hoot!
Your investment dollars at work.
Surely you have more newsworthy items to cover then report on people that aren’t perfect in positions of authority everywhere. I would take the gentleman covered in this article over our President of the United States any day
7
Their behaviour goes well beyond ‘imperfect’.
In case you missed it, this was a multimillion dollar behemoth whose entire ethos, origin, and corporate culture were ONLY ever about the exploitation of females by and for the benefit of males.
It is one of the more egregiously sordid corporate stories from start to finish, from top to bottom.
Bringing up the man who should be impeached is a) a straw man argument, and b) whataboutism. Both tactics well known to deflect and pivot from the topic at hand.
2
@Anthony Williams ,
Employer sexual harassment and coercion are not "imperfections" -- they are a pervasive evil that destroy souls and careers, just on a smaller scale than the president. This is newsworthy.
2
@Anthony Williams
Are you not clicking on the links to other stories?
2
Ok. I would be more surprised if this organization was NOT a hotbed of misogyny, given its prime role is to foster, profit and exploit the objectification of women.
If I were a journalist, I’d be doing some proactive investigative journalism ...
19
Good riddance to VS and other brands and industries that promote and profit from an overly sexualized view of women and teenagers. It’s demeaning, dated and stale. I hope more women in the public eye follow the lead of true progressives like Billie Eilish, who dresses to please herself, not men.
36
@Emme B Billie Eilish herself has stated that she dresses the way she does not out of personal expression, but rather as a way to avoid being sexualized by men who see her. That is not true freedom. Both VS models and women like Eilish dress based on how they think men will react, which is quite a restriction.
4
When are we going to let the dogs off the leash to go after these creepy billionaires? Oh, that’s right, we live in a nation of laws, so no worries.
11
We USED TO live in a nation of laws, until January 31, 2020 when the GOP-controlled Senate voted to have a no-evidence sham impeachment “trial” permitting the corrupt “President” to defy Congressional oversight with impunity.
No one is above the law except the corrupt tRump administration.
16
A company that was built on the objectification of women has a culture of misogyny. I'm shocked, just shocked!
47
Hang on. As one commentator wrote below, women also played a role in this lamentable story. No one was "beholden" to anyone. The female models accepted a large amount of money to strut scantily-clad down a runway. Don't like it? Then don't do it. Walk away.
21
@Juliet
It happens to women in any competitive, male-dominated career, including the advanced sciences. They often can't "walk away" without getting blackballed from the entire profession to which they've dedicated a lifetime.
10
@Juliet
for the models it is not a large amount of money. Epstein stole every bit of money from wexner. you see he is going broke. consider what the ceos make trust me it is not a large amount of money.
True they can walk away, but it’s that attitude, instead of slaying the beasts where they lay, that gives the pervs a pass. Why should women continually bear the very special onus that comes with being mistreated by misogynists in the workplace?
3
Shoppers of Victoria's secret, viewers of movies/media where women are objectified or excluded are voting for a corrupt concept with their dollars. Why?
People who claim that photographing young women's almost nude bodies is "empowering" found a nice trick to excusing their overt sexism. Real empowerment gains us equal pay, and our partners helping equally around the home, not feeling ashamed and humiliated if we don't look like an 18 year old model. It perpetuates a common excuse from males that we have "let ourselves go" , so we don't deserve to be helped at home, or they can just go find another younger woman.
Women are going along with this. Why? I have always felt personally bullied by Victoria's Secret. A male dominated company built on a corrupt male concept. It reinforces patriarchal attitudes, and definitely showed up in my ex husband throughout our marriage comparing me to much younger women after I had 3 children, and the majority of the housework dumped on me.
Too bad these entities have such a share of our economy. Think of how that money "for women" could be used otherwise?
Shoppers of Victoria's secret, viewers of movies/media where women are objectified or excluded. You are voting for a corrupt concept with your dollars. Why are you doing this to women?
32
@Jennifer Ward I agree with much of what you said but hit the wall with "personally bullied." How is your not using a product you don't like in any way bullying? Please. Real bullying is horrible, personal and hateful. It is NOT the same as offending one's touchy sensibilities.
Another example of the role that a Human Resources department (and those that work in them) plays in enabling sexual harrassment in the workplace.
21
@Mike Edwards Human Resources departments work for the companies in which they function. And think about the term: human RESOURCES.
7
Human Resources departments are a complete and utter joke.
3
Unfortunately America will not get rid of that type of attitude and brand tomorrow. It will take time until the large public realizes that VS is simply pornography.
10
So now we KNOW - the overlap (literally) between Wexner, Epstein, L Brands and Victoria's Secret - soul crushing indecency - Wexner is as guilty as the rest of his execs, and all roads lead back to Epstein.
20
@BabsWC
they had a whole story on how Epstein met wexner. Epstein stole from wexner repeatedly
1
is this the news article all those non disclosure agreements signed by former VS employees was suppose to suppress ?
i think this is only the first chapter of a much larger book ; unfortunately with a corporate culture of secrecy; and Epstein's death under "suspicious circumstances" ; those stories will probably never be told -
but whats in Ed Reziks golden parachute ?
and whats in Les Wexner's golden parachute?
8
Wealthy men with power and scantily clad young women. What could go wrong?
11
I am shocked that the men who run a company that objectifies women would also themselves objectify women.
15
Supermodels who were selected as Angels considered it a badge of honor.... go figure
10
Two old men who can only look and wish. Victoria's Secret clothing are cheap and wont hold up in the washing machine. Why anyone would buy that garbage is a total mystery.
7
If this is Ed Razek's and Leslie Wexner's attempts at "repairing the world," it's not a world I'd like to live in.
7
Victoria's Secret was a success because it facilitated the sexual exploitation fantasies all men have but are not permitted to admit to any more.
2
I know Victoria's Secret. It's that the company makes cheap lingerie. No wonder it's going under.
6
Wow. This report is shocking. Utterly, completely shocking.
You mean to tell me that a company that manufacturers low-quality sweatshop merchandise, has advertisements that exclusively show girls with Barbie-esque proportions, and stages "fashion shows" geared towards every dated cliche of what juvenile men believe hot women look like...is NOT an ideal workplace for female empowerment?
Let me repeat: wow.
Coming up next: McDonald's is not a good diet strategy, and lottery tickets are not a solid retirement plan.
43
Perhaps you are right but that doesn't help the perpetrators who have exploited their situation to hurt people. It is correct to report this.
8
Our opinions about it being bad based on any argument, it was bad.
Industry shaming: big deal has to stop, Ha. Ha.
but ....model shaming, girl shaming, boy shaming, woman shaming, man shaming, aren’t they all subjects of marketing’s known aim to manipulate to obtain sales.
1
@Incognita Businss is business and your perspective changes when you change from employee to employee managers. It's call business. Get it!
Shame on you!
“Victoria’s Secret defined femininity for millions of women.”
Rather, Victoria’s Secret defined femininity for millions of men.
53
@EASabo Agreed. As an example of that, a male friend of mine expressed disgust at seeing 40-yr old women working in the local store. He truly expected to see "angels" working at a retail store, not the "real women" who need real jobs. I had to scold him before he recognized that his expectations of seeing models working for minimum wage at a retail store was an unrealistic fantasy! And how many other men many share that expectation, and are scornful of women who don't meet them?
7
Rich and powerful/obnoxious old men, young beautiful women - the obvious demographic, social and economic disparities aside, these same financial and sexual power dynamics have existed, quid pro quo, since time immemorial
IMHO, having over 30 yrs of inside exposure to LB’s CBUS, New Albany and Manhattan culture, their deep and broad level of gender diversity, at the mid-executive levels and above, was a point of pride and indicative of their progressive attitude of inclusion and meritocracy... this perspective, of course, doesn’t make for captivating headlines and social media trending
2
But that’s kind of the point. I worked there too, in Cbus and NYC, and despite all the women in big positions, we still couldn’t move the brand in a more modern direction. Because the power was held only at the very top. And Les and Ed’s control was unshakeable.
5
The whole business of objectifying women has to stop and it has to stop somewhere, somehow and in our times. As a woman asian techie in the US, I never understood why women liked buying victoria secrets or any of the sexy lingerie. Am glad VS is finally dying its own death and if women stop buying any L brands, these men will stop means to exploit.
9
Some women enjoy being and feeling sexy......on their terms, not on a man’s.
Pick any 100 people out of the nearest grocery store, office, church, or off the street.
Give each of them $1 billion.
You will likely find a good many who become disgusting human beings like Trump, Werner, Epstein and Raznor within a short period of time. Many people are not nice. But when they become ultra-rich they become very not nice and, sadly, almost invincible. Trump and his enablers have just demonstrated this.
We not only don’t need billionaires... they are a threat and a danger to us all.
23
A lot of victim blaming in these comments, inferring the models should have expected sleazy manipulative treatment from men in power. Very disappointing to see this level of sexism; NYT readers should be more sophisticated than that.
13
@Wendy As a 71 year old male, I agree. We are all influenced by the culture in which we grow up and tend to continue to have those views as we get older. It is not easy for all of us to "escape" these perspectives and values. I'm trying to do it, but it is easier now than 50 years ago.
4
Wow, what a surprise. Was Trump when of the men implicated?
2
Sadly, it’s just another expose’ (pardon the pun) of old dudes thinking they have the right to own, critique, and ogle a woman’s body whenever they please. I hope these angels realize they’ve been dealing with devils. I, for one, can’t wait to see this kind of exploitation go away once and for all.
9
I have a lot of personal insight on this. True that there was a senior executive way out of bounds. Les & his wife have done amazing things for employees & for humanity. See the whole picture. Les is an amazing person who has made life better for millions. This is the time for everyone to pile on in thoughtless ways. Go ahead and scream at me in inconsiderate ways. I don't care. Seeing the whole picture, this guy is an asset to the Jewish community & others way beyond that. Wish people could see more broadly, rather than be filled w blind hate.
3
That’s what makes it even more disappointing. Someone who has been so charitable in Cbus and beyond has had such bad judgement in so many ways when it comes to business and his personal finances. And is afflicted with such major narcissism that he has been unable to give someone else control of the brands even when it was painfully obvious that it was needed.
4
Castigating a man for presiding over a corporation that was misogynistic towards females from the origin story to the ethos, and consorting with pedophiles, is not blind hate. But there is plenty of blindness evident on your part.
3
@RiffRaff I know people who looked at Hitler in a broad context - he did so much good for Germany: highways, work, economic prosperity, education and more. Isn’t that how your rationale works?
5
I’ve always found Victoria Secret offensive. Always. It never struck me as a store for women; it was always clearly about men. To buy into the brand one had to accept a woman’s lot as a fetishized plaything for men to use. I never imagined “Victoria Secret” sex as anything that involved pleasure for a woman. After all, the underwear itself was uncomfortable, cheap and ill fitting. Happy to say the few purchases I made there as a newlywed were infrequent and last endured in the 90s. I’m glad that even as “Sex and the City” trained 1990s woman, something about the whole thing seemed off even before I understood what.....
Speaking of SATC, if you want the broader context around the kind of subculture that spawned VS, watch a few episodes now. I did recently, expecting to feel the same glow as I did watching “Friends”. Instead, I was met with the uncomfortable awareness that so much of “sex culture” in the past focused on solely men’s perceptions and their pleasure. It made me sad for my younger self.
Glad #metoo opened my eyes...
16
@GWE as a teen, VS was a very hot commodity. I thought their stuff was cute— unlike a lot of the department store brands it wasn’t matronly. However, I stopped shopping there as an adult because the store appeared to intentionally exclude the upper half of the size range (meaning anything above a 36), and because the quality wasn’t great. Finally, I found the angels shows not exactly offensive, but retrograde and misogynistic. I mean, it’s no accident that Corey Feldman has a troupe of angels, too — it’s a cheap fantasy, as is the notion of a man/small group of men having a coterie off women in lingerie at their disposal. It’s all about the male gaze, and as a woman I’m not into it.
2
Birds of a feather flock together - and I'm not talking about the women.
These men.......what is wrong with them?
8
Let's see. Men make women parade around in underwear. Gee why would they want to do that? To empower women? It's the definition of misogyny, once removed from prostitution. The sooner women start burning those magazines, the better. These men should be prosecuted and jailed for sexual assault and battery. Women should organize pyres of 'beauty' and 'fashion' magazines and make-up. Instead we have middle-class women gussying up their prepubescents like "models" ripe for the picking by these predators. As a father of a young daughter it makes me sick see how women serve as the midwives of their own daughters' oppression by these sick men.
12
@AR 1. Take care of your own children, 2. You went to blaming their mothers, really? You’re part of the problem.
2
I love how stuff like this is now being exposed. Women now have a voice and companies are learning they better listen. NYTimes, you play a big part of this. Thank you.
I also have to say how silly these old men (my age) look with these young beautiful women. Old age is a wonderful time. What a waste pretending it’s not happening.
19
No surprise that this company is run by Dirty Old Men. Their whole marketing premise was built on the premise that girls and women need to look a certain way, highly sexualised and uncomfortable. The hugely padded bras, the completely ridiculous uncomfortable looking underwear - jewels on crotches etc. If VS wants to be relevant to the woke women of 2020 they need to make some big changes Starting with ditching the dinosaur men behind this brand would be good start.
11
I walked into a VS store just yesterday to look for a lightweight robe for travel. As I waited on line to pay, I was assaulted by larger-than-life looped videos playing on a wall behind the cashiers. It was a ridiculous, soft-porn display of perfectly-sized models rolling on a bed “pajama-party” style. Even the models on the videos looked embarrassed. I glanced at the other women on line, of all different normal shapes and sizes, uncomfortably viewing this barrage of images. I thought to myself, “great VS, way to go, alienate your customers as they are about to pay.” After reading this article, I’ll be returning the robe tomorrow and never setting foot in a VS store again.
249
@MR but you say "perfectly sized models", without quotes. See how insidious it is?
20
About 20 years ago, I was briefly head-hunted for the position of Creative Director of Victoria's Secret's in-house ad agency.
At the time, I asked the recruiter, "Why would they even consider a guy for that role?" I thought I must just have been rounding out a list of candidates; a resume there only to be cut in the first round. I never even submitted a resume.
Now, it all makes sense.
7
We all need to disabuse ourselves that HR is a valid safe haven for employees. It is not.
40
@bj HR=Corporate Legal Defense Department
Need I say more?
You might as well walk into a confessional in a parish of 50 and expect anonymity.
3
Some writers here excuse men as simply being "interested" in women- and that women respond as they choose.
In this case, "Interest in" means the "Objectification of" and "Power over" another.
An Abuser, as Predator, is quite "interested" in his/her Object Prey.
And for the teenagers and young women and men who seem so eager to please, they started learning their role in that dynamic much earlier in life, hoping to feel safe and to get their own material needs met. As children, they learned the power to be safe and well was outside themselves, so they try to please others. Not everyone gets the help they need to grow out of that belief.
If you're wondering what a relationship is really about, consider a Power Differential and then see what you think.
13
Well duh! There's is not one thing about the VS Brand that is not sexist and manipulative and wholly from a males POV.
Anyone who has paid a small amount of attention to the behind the scenes of modeling, at any level, knows its a male dominated culture that is awash in sexual manipulation and abuses. Why would a Corporation like VS be any different?
Every model, whether they are courageous enough to admit it or not, has several abuse, manipulation stories. And one of the saddest aspects...is that so many veterans of the industry have not come forward, have not spoken up and brought the realities to the forefront. But I get it, they are addicted to the lifestyle, the glamor, the celebrity, and wealth - at least for the upper echelons of the industry. However, they should be the ones being most vocal. They are the ones who could force the changes.
Work should not be this way for anyone, male or female. Predation at the work place, whether the worker is wearing the skimpy clothes, or buried in protective gear - should not be tolerated!
The models, the female (or male) support staff, are not there for the bosses (male or female) pleasure and/or abuse. Period! The sooner we as a culture get that message delivered and soundly enforce it, across all workplaces, the better. Workers are not prey!
You can mistakenly think models are bimbos, but that doesn't negate providing workplace protections. Staff are not prey for the bosses, the owners or their friends! This is not hard!
11
My first reaction to this article is that when you play with fire you get burned. However, upon further thought I know that young women have limited opportunities to enjoy the same pay-scale that men do and physically beautiful, model-esque ones might naturally want to monetize those gifts of nature. The very existence of a brand such as Victoria’s Secret says it all; men are animals (and so are women.)
4
I'm glad the Times investigated VS, even if the outcome is so predictable, but why now? What took them so long? This has been known "for decades".
24
How can people be surprised that a company that encourages women to be valued for their physical attributes would be run by misogynists? What i find shocking about the exploitation at Victoria Secret isn’t the exploitation itself but rather that people are surprised about it. The side of feminism that encourages women to exploit themselves for the benefit of these corporations (and men) is NOT any side of feminism I want my daughter to support. The shedding of clothing has done little to advance women’s intellectual opportunities but has done wonders for the wallets, egos, and libidos of men everywhere.
89
@a Your post expresses. my thoughts about this much more concisely than I could have. It is an awful situation. I also wonder what would have happened had someone -a model or a witness called the police, and filed a report.
3
@a How well put. IMHO, the Victoria's Secret's type of "feminism" that VS puts out is like the "feminism" put out by Cosomopolitan magazine with articles like "How to Please Your Man." Take off the masthead and it is hard to tell Victoria''s Secret catalogs from Playboy or Hustle.
2
@a That's not any side of feminism.
5
Should we be surprised to find bullying, harassment, and sexism in the women's fashion industry? VS models are experienced professionals and none of the alleged conduct could have come as a total surprise to them. This is why parents of past generations warned their daughters against going into modeling (esp underwear modeling), acting, or any other field where youth and beauty were the most important qualifications. VS has been going downmarket for years, their stores catering increasingly to young teenagers. The models are realizing that if they're ever going to shake some money out of the business it must be now, before VS declares bankruptcy.
7
At the VS store nearest me, a black woman was caught shoplifting and the store clerk asked all the other black customers to leave—as though they were complicit. One of the customers complained and it made national news. Of course, the young clerk made a mistake and it’s not necessarily reflective of the management. But that marked the end of my buying VS brands, especially since they source they garments from overseas factories where the workers are poorly paid. I now buy my underwear from an American woman-owned company that features diverse models including tomboys. It also lasts better and is more comfortable.
59
@BamaGirl The point that you make about generalizations about Black people and the "criminal element" is well taken; however, in recent years there has been a wave of shoplifting involving multiple parties. One person is engaging an employee discussing an item, a couple of others are dispersed around the store taking an article off the shelf for a minute and putting it back to draw other employees' attention as well as customers' attention while 1 or 2 others perform the actual shop lifting. So that much is real.
These days, when a pocketbook at Macy's can go for $150 to $200, shop lifting can be quite lucrative and profitable even if it takes 2 or 3 people to pull it off.
2
No one deserves to be assaulted or feel unsafe. However, we do have a responsibility to avoid situations that are inherently risky. Accepting a trip to a private island with nude photography or a 1:1 dinner with an executive who is much older, particularly in a business where you’re hired for your appearance... both parties know, or should know, that a negotiation is in the works.
36
@Eric I suspect that many of these young women aren’t terribly bright or self-confident, and they have spent their teens fantasizing about modeling and acting jobs. Very easy prey for the Wexners and Weinsteins of the world. Please don’t blame the victims.
107
@Eric This doesn’t just happen in the lingerie business. Question: if a young male professional hoping to benefit his career accepts a dinner invitation from a man in position to mentor him, should he also expect to be sexually exploited if he wants career help.
15
@V
"aren't terribly bright"... remembering when we were kids we used to say "takes one to know one".
4
I wish all people in the world happiness and freedom from predation and oppression.
39
It seems to me that Mr. Epstein drew his power from knowing potentially-damaging information about some very high-powered people. I challenge the media to explore the exploitation of under aged males in these relationships.
65
I remember walking into one Victoria’s Secret store in Santa Monica but was put off by their cheap, tacky merchandise and in-store imagery. I’m so glad they’re about to go away- hopefully forever.
145
The one time I went into a VS shop it felt like a fantasy store for men. Now I know it was.
44
@Mercedes Sandberg
But there's nothing inherently wrong with fantasies as long as the women who like VS items and the men who like seeing them in VS items are in private, and in agreement.
20
It is women who make a brand like Victoria Secret. They have it in their power to break it or make it undergo changes that stand for what women rightly deserve in the 21st century.
Someone needs to take the lead to ensure that L Brands does not get away lightly from all this and that the governance and culture changes it ushers in are not band aids on top of a fracture. It can’t be an organisation that feasts on the rights of the very women it makes money from.
33
@AC Like capitalists feast on the rights of workers? (I'm find with capitalism for the record, of any sort, just making a point.)
I agree with you 100% BTW. The power is with the workers not with the capital due to their numbers, which is why ...
3
Actually young women these are turning away from VS and “breaking” it, i.e. making it less relevant. They shop at Aerie and Third Love where women of many body types are presented. It’s very refreshing!
11
I am shocked, shocked, that these lingerie models were sometimes asked to reveal more, or that they were hit on by wealthy older men at exclusive private islands. Victoria's Secret was always like Playboy Magazine with a little more cover. The women who chose this work were compensated and paid for the use of their bodies in almost nude pictures. If they wanted to play a sex tease, is anybody surprised that some insiders wanted more? These women were not 14. They were old enough to meet the age of consent. They exploited the system and the system exploited them. Why is anyone surprised by any of this?
91
You’re right the models were not 14 - one was 17 when she first participated in the fashion show. Why, that’s almost legally an adult!
138
@Mom
Why did her parents allow it? They apparently were ok with trading the use of her body for cold, hard cash.
10
@DRR Yeah, one was nineteen when she was harassed. Do you have any daughters? Think about them and what they were like at nineteen.
7
This is a wake up call for everyone. I think everyone is equally to be blamed here. The entire system from top to bottom. The executives, photographers, models everyone is equally guilty. Everyone is an adult, and when models went on supporting and also motivating young girls to follow thier lead, the entire system becomes chicken or egg thing.
25
I don’t quite get why you think the models are equally as guilty too.
77
Not all models were legally adults. And 18 and 19 yr olds, though legally no linger considered minors, are still relatively inexperienced in life and business and still often manipulatable or coercible by peers and adults older than them who place their own interests ahead of those of the young women.
71
@Radhika
There is an analogy here with dancers.
Young female ballet students spend a large part of their lives in ballet studios. An oversupply of good dancers still in their teens means jobs are much sought after. This includes The Moulin Rouge in Paris, where dancers wear skimpy costumes and lots of feathers.
The girls are encouraged by the Company, others and money to become topless dancers. Those who dance topless are paid significantly more than those who don’t. They are told that these are the elite dancers. They’re young, often under twenty, come from various countries,may not have French as a first language, impressionable and away from friends and family in Paris.
31
I stopped buying Victoria's Secret brand years ago because something felt wrong about them. Now I know that feeling was correct.
147
It’s the only way these brands will change their way. You were right in doing so.
20
How Wexner escaped any real scrutiny given that he substantively enabled Jeffrey Epstein’s career and, hence, his predations isn’t a mystery. Big money scares off DA’s. At best, Wexner chose to look the other way. At worst, well, that’s only speculation as law enforcement turned a blind themselves, but it’s all ugly stuff.
Now that we have a pattern emerging there’s a language Wexner understands - boycott Victoria’s Secret and L. Brands. The company Wexner runs seems to have systematically devalued women. Seems only fitting to boycott and, therefore, to devalue L Brands in return.
221
Agreed. I wonder what additional details about Les Wexner’s tawdry behavior will finally force the Ohio State University to address the number of school buildings named after the Wexner family. My guess is that, short of Les shooting someone on High Street, OSU will continue to look the other way.
49
@Robert
Amen. Divest now or suffer the consequences.
2
@Jim Ohio : I grew up in Columbus, went to Ohio State and your reference to High Street makes me home sick!
My mother was an artist in Columbus and always touted the Wexner family and the art center. She'd be plenty ashamed of ol' Les now.
Wexner gave Epstein power of attorney over all of his fortune. And somehow Epstein ended up with the mansion in NYC. Now....why would that have happened? Perhaps Mr. Wexner was truly involved in Epstein's crimes. Or was being blackmailed for something else. Whatever it was....it is suspicious.
9
Finally...Victoria’s Secret has been revealed!
143
@Opinioned! 'Revealed,' but just enough so that it's still 'legal.' I wonder what might also be there, and am so riveted and fascinated! Actually, I know entirely what else is there -- as does nearly everyone else -- but let's all play along with these 'rich' and 'beautiful' emotional juveniles, who live as though life is skin deep.
Gross old guys. Rich old gross guys so the skys the limit. One very crucial fact was not presented in the article. The bras and underwear were cheap. The manufacturing produced an inferior product. The lingerie didn’t hold a candle to a lot of other companies. Maybe they should have added those giant wings as a package deal.
173
@Dixie I gave up on VS after I was about 23 years old. The bras were always itchy and uncomfortable. Who cares about the image or look if it's not wearable.
8
@Dixie
Just remember that not all "old, rich guys" are gross. There are a whole lot of genuinely decent ones around.
3
I always thought their merchandise looked cheap in horrible colors. I'm grateful my wife likes French lingerie.
70
@Somewhere
But some other men prefer VS.
1
Now we know what Victoria's secret was.
64
I'm shocked and disappointed to learn that there was a culture of misogyny, sexual harassment, and abuse at Victoria's Secret. Who might have suspected such a thing?
115
My only personal connection to this skeevy company is that some years ago, charges were made to it with the stolen credit card number (the card itself wasn't missing) of an ex-boyfriend. The credit card company didn't make him pay. And no, he wasn't lying.
4
Les Wexner is the money behind Jeffrey Epstein. It makes sense that Mr Wexner would associate with someone like himself, being Mr Epstein. But because he has billions of dollars, he’ll never be brought to justice as an Epstein associate. It all makes sense now.
81
I think Juicy Couture has problems for the same reason; just the name alone hints at what that is. It’s a problem that we see in many of these sex abuse cases, but few are willing to talk frankly about it.
39
@Thomas
that and it isn't even couture. c'mon
4
I’d like to see more reporting on how Jeffrey Epstein ingratiated himself into the company. In particular did JE have any actual investing and business skills or was he simply stealing from an old man based in Ohio (Wexner).
Does VS have much of an online presence? Mall-based retailers in all categories are suffering, so if VS is doing poorly that may be a function of troubles faced by all brick-and-mortar retailers, in addition to its customer base becoming more woke.
10
I've never been tempted even once to step inside a VS store. Ever.
39
Who would shop there? I found it offensive 30 years ago.
131
@Grace Clark Me too. Really cheap and tacky merch. Yuck.
1
I’m a part time online clothing reseller (most of which I source in thrift shops). Victoria’s Secret doesn’t sell well, and I never buy it. It’s about as desirable as LulaRoe, which is to say, not at all. Their PINK line does better, but aside from vintage items, I only sell better quality brands and mostly natural fibers. I refuse to have brands in my inventory whose business ethics I don’t respect.
71
@Julie Zuckman I have found on those rare occasions when I walked into Victoria's secret that the clothes were impractical and appeared unrelated to women's real bodies. I am not surprised to hear that at the helm of such a business, apparently specializing in superficial sex appeal, that there are two misogynous men.
67
Les Wexner has contributed millions to Ohio State University’s medical facilities that are now named for him. As a public institution, they should be forced to strip his name from every building that bears it.
209
New Albany with all of its white picket fences, fancy buildings, and posh neighborhoods seems like a big joke now as Wexner gets exposed for the poor character he has been all along. Another thing to note which people may find interesting is that Wexner was also a member of the Sigma Alpha Mu fraternity at OSU, which has a recent record of female abuse in addition to hazing. There were rumors I heard (or maybe it's well known) that he has supported that fraternity financially. I'm sure not all brothers can be generalized the same way but it makes you wonder how far does the apple fall from the tree. Well, at least all the Columbus nonresidents who work in New Albany can continue paying city income taxes on behalf of the city residents' needs, which doesn't include supporting homeless shelters or addiction clinics. You can only keep up a pretty charade for so long.
20
@Patrick Absurd to drag the young men currently involved in the fraternity though the mud because Wexner was a donor and former member.
If we're going down the guilt by association fallacy should we target all past, present and future members the "Ohio Staters" student org? It is well-known that it is the only student organization that Wexner outright refuses to work with because they were filled with anti-semites during his days as a student.
Maybe that will hope you see the ridiculousness of painting with such a broad brush. I say this as someone who despised frat "culture" while in school and now.
4
@Mr. Florentino
Absolutely. Strip his name from the buildings and, of course, return every dime.
9
So, these shows were featuring teenagers?
34
@Texan Dem yes. The whole thing was designed to appeal to men buying for women, especially young women. Millions of men buying gifts for girlfriends and wives, thinking it was a complement. Millions of women flattered by the gift, taking it was a complement. Women buying the garments themselves to feel sexy. It was the brand.
@WhiteBearLake
All of this is perfectly normal. Lots of women and men like sex and sexy, and liked this particular purveyor. What they should now no longer support is a brand with predation in its mix.
You will not stop men's interest in women, especially men that feel entitled.
8
True, but we can stop wrong behavior.
29
@sdt
In this case, "Interest in" means the "Objectification of" and "Power over" another.
An Abuser, as Predator, is quite "interested" in his/her Object Prey.
And for the teenagers and young women and men who seem so eager to please, they started learning their role in that dynamic much earlier in life . . . hoping to feel safe and to get their own material needs met in life. They learned the power was outside themselves, so they try to please others.
If you're wondering what a relationship is really about, consider a Power Differential and then see what you think.
6
@sdt
Men's interest in women's bodies, you mean.
2
Ultimately the objective is to have women wearing as little as possible. This especially includes wearing as little underwear as possible.
This objective fulfills two sides of the coin here. We misogynists can have our cake and eat it too, with viewing women who choose not to wear underwear. There's nothing better than a woman "going Commando"!
On the other side if women choose to "go Commando," that wins the battle fot those who would put Victoria's Secret out of business. If women choose not to wear underwear then there is no market, and no retail opportunity for Victoria's Secret Stores.
This ultimately can be a win-win for both sides of the issue.
4
@Reggie, women spend 35 years bleeding, 9 months building, and on average 14 hours of painful labor, then excruciating delivery to build and produce every single human being on this planet. Half of the human beings women build and produce are men.
Most men are thankful for the amazing work their mother did - and all women do - so they can exist - and so that all men can exist.
One wonders how some commenters can be so trite and frivolous with their comments about women - and so very, very oblivious and thankless.
271
@Other Just so you know, Reggie is a female satirist. Your comments are still valid, however!
@Reggie : I my late forties I gave up both panties and bras. There really is a feeling of freedom. I didn't have an outside job to go to. I keep them around if I need them, but I rarely do.
Maybe I’m a cynic, but frankly, I’d have been shocked if the findings were any different.
132
@Fed Up Exactly. Color me surprised.
1
Let's see: "regret". I think that means we sure liked the way things were and are going to miss it, until we figure out a different way to do the same thing. Which I am sure they are working on.
43
Why would this surprise anyone? Young women beholden to their employers while modeling underwear, what could possibly go wrong?
267
I am SHOCKED that a lingerie company would turn out to be a toxic place to work.
98
@Jonas Kaye Let’s just say this is why I and so many women I know switched to underwear companies led and designed by women years ago. The products at VS were trash, as were the owners.
37
@Jonas Kaye A lingerie company doesn’t have to be a toxic place to work. There are more and more brands (such as Fenty) run by women with the goal of empowering women of all shapes and sizes. -NW
5
I would hate to find out that Bali, Vanity Fair, Calida or Carol Hochman are toxic workplaces. What would I wear?
2
Victoria Secrets did NOT define femininity for millions of women. It defined it for millions of men. Are we really surprised it was a misogynistic cesspool?
1461
@Cat
Yes, women don't really want that stuff. And your dog keeps telling you that he wants to be a vegan - right?
I completely agree that abusive managers are totally unacceptable in any industry, but your view of how women's shopping behavior is generated, is ridiculous.
Do you really thing any man cares about all the nuances of fashion that women see right away? When women go shopping, they bring another woman along - not a man.
9
@Cat Not so sure VS defined femininity to that many men either. Companies like VS have led us to believe such though. At the end of the day, very few men seem to care what kind of lingerie a woman wears.
17
@Cat
As a former rural mail carrier, I can attest to the fact that a significant number of men received the free Victoria's Secret catalog in the mail. Hmm... can't imagine why...
24
Every time I walk past a Victoria’s Secret in the mall now all I can think of is a bunch of dirty old man taking advantage of teenage girls and Jeffrey Epstein.
601
Our president did! Might still do! And it’s OK.
39
@Ignacio J Silva
Trump, Mr. Harvard, Barr since his daddy hired Mr. Epstein with no degree to work at the Dalton school nor any old school but the Dalton for the rich and special.
Remember that picture of Melania with Epstein she looked like she had walked out of a Victoria's photo shot especially the pictures that the Daily News ran.
Women need to wake up and know your rights. Walk out the door if you dont like the culture otherwise nothign will ever change.
Is the Pope Catholic? .... One glance at the VS merchandise illustrates that it is , and always has been, a misogynistic enterprise.
129
@GBR Come to think of it, VS exploits greed for sex the same way the church exploits greed for afterlife. Maybe that's the root of the whole 'angel's wings' thing.
3
Turns out basic internet research is answering, in part, my question about who Epstein represented besides VS fellas. Follow the money.
34
@Incognita Seriously, how it possible Times is doing these deep dives a decade too late.
Like Trump and his taxes. Epstein and Trump were literally in your backyard. How about some timely investigations. Might have saved a few teens and our democracy.
116
I was hired at VS on July 31, 2019 and worked my first PINK sale on Aug. 2, 2019. After that, I completed 8 trainings in the office but was never put back on the floor. I gave them my schedule for when I could work full time with them but they kept making excuses for no work hours available for me at the time. Also, if you looked into the job posts, u could find my job description at the store for hire...weird. I believe it was AGE DISCRIMINATION in why I was never put on the floor again and excuses were made for when I asked to work and they said there were no hours to give. I reported it to the supervisor who did nothing and I went above her to the head of the HI division of VS and claimed age discrimination and they only told me that if they aren't any hours that that was the problem. They wouldn't believe me when I said it was age discrimination, as I'm an attractive 61 yrs old woman surrounded by girls that are < 30 years old. Just dont get why I was hired on the spot and not allowed to work...Dont think highly of the company and now this scandel...
84
Get a lawyer
40
I’ve always shied away from all the “Virgin” companies (records, airline, etc.) because of the sexual connotation of the name. Now, after all these years, my suspicions about Richard Branson have been confirmed, despite all the positive profiles I’ve seen about him.
165
@Martha Goff
Excellent point. I too balked at the "virgin" labels popping up, and I've never consumed anything they've been selling.
64
I take it you don’t use olive oil then?
7
"...two powerful men presided over an entrenched culture of misogyny, bullying and harassment..."
Like a foretelling in a way of what has happened to the presidency.
106
I never really liked Victoria's Secret---it always seemed sleazy to me, and now the company is a dinosaur, totally out of touch with the current women's apparel market, as the article states. None of this is surprising. With a president in the Oval Office who, himself, is accused by women for inappropriate behavior, is it any wonder that allegations against wealthy and powerful men will continue to surface? The problem is that this rampant behavior continues by men who see themselves as blameless and untouchable.
180
@Birdygirl : Our 'president' has been accused on more than one occasion of rape, in addition to 'inappropriate' touching. And at least one rape accusation is now in the courts with a credible woman making the case.
7
@Birdygirl
Sleazy. Exactly the word for this whole operation. Thank you!
1
Victoria Secret certainly never defined my femininity and I have never had a problem attracting the attention of desirable men. In fact, I rarely wear makeup, have never gone out of the house wearing underwear, and find VC completely offensive. Women, and for that matter men, are worth far more than the cheap sexuality they sell.
78
@navybrat 'I have never had a problem attracting the attention of desirable men.' Well, right -- it's attracting the attention of undesirable men that's the problem, isn't it! Too bad they can't reliably be identified by what they wear. Just like women.
1
@navybrat
A woman not wearing underwear will easily attract male interest.
3
It seems like every story like this about corporate malfeasance includes a HR department that does nothing. I know when I worked for one we didn’t report anything to them because we knew they would just go tell the VP and he would squash it if was someone important (someone who made money for the company). We need HR to do their job.
108
@Kath Bl
Human Resources, in many companies, weed out employees that could be deemed a 'problem' for the company. Their job is not to help the employee. It's to protect the company image.
239
I work for Moody’s and the HR Dept (aka HR Connect) is useless. The HR objective in this age is to protect Sr. Management and ignore employee complaints.
31
@Kath Bl Going to HR in ANY corporation only invites retaliation. The only complaints that will get resolved to any satisfaction are those against another equally powerless colleague. Any registered against management only makes your situation worse. From someone who has been there.
26
I have a little trouble feeling terribly sorry for supermodels who millions of women and girls starved, implanted, waxed, and otherwise tortured themselves in an effort to become. But apparently and, really, unsurprisingly, even in winning these hunger games, they still lost.
More importantly, the Culture of Misogyny was not only inside the firm, but spewed across the planet. I remember the catalogs that (unsolicited) arrived in the mail at least weekly. Absolutely toxic.
I am sure that almost every kid (boy or girl) studied these catalogs that showed up in their homes. What did that regular misogynystic messaging do to their ideas about women and relationships? I expect its destructiveness, while impossible to measure, was nonetheless collectively enormous.
It's really not so very different from opioids or any other industry that enriches itself by damaging people. We really need to react more swiftly to destructive forces. This one is so Gen X. And new and awful reincarnations are no doubt lurking in plain sight.
95
@Katherine It is common for models to be told that they need to starve themselves in order to remain competitive. It can be a highly competitive industry, and many develop eating disorders and drug problems. The issue isn’t with the women, it’s that they feel it’s their only choice if they don’t want to destroy their careers. -NW
26
@Dr D
There is no place anymore for women stating they have no choice but to sell themselves to keep certain careers. Not true. Total fiction. QUIT. Do something else. There are other jobs that do not entail strutting around, starved and naked.
7
@Katherine
Geez, the women seem to be hating on the models in these comments. Now let's just agree that many women, myself included, adore beautiful lingerie. La Perla, Chantelle, and other high quality, beautifully made lingerie is a wonderful luxury. And the models of those brands are beautiful too. They are representing a fantasy. I won't be wearing any big, old, white, granny underwear anytime soon. Also, since when is it wrong to want to feel lovely or sexy? Now these VS men are just a bunch of pigs but let's not confuse them with the victims/models.
4
Is there a list of the people/corporate entities etc whose finances were previously managed by Jeffrey Epstein? And who is in charge now.
50
When I see nearly nude, seductively posed young women, rarely are my first thoughts of feminism and women’s empowerment. Women largely have themselves to blame - not the models of course, but the millions of women who have bought and continue to buy Victoria’s Secret products. I so admire Billie Eilish for rejecting such expectations.
120
@SheBear Men have entirely themselves to blame for harassing and abusing women, not young women who have been bombarded from childhood with messages about how they are supposed to look and how much they are supposed to weigh. Victoria’s Secret sells a fantasy. A teenage girl wanting to look like a model is little different from one ten years younger wanting to look like a princess. -NW
65
@Dr D
Where were their parents (fathers and mothers) while these young women were growing up, to teach them that a body is not to be sold? Families set the standards.
6
@Dr D Female children are often, from birth, continuously bombarded with messages around the role of their appearance in their value. Maybe I am in some weird demographic, but my observation is that mothers push this much moreso than do fathers. Cute! Adorable! Pretty! Beautiful! and on and on. Also, so much of social media is females praising one another's 'beauty,' and such. Males are exposed to this, and swallow the same line, unfortunately. Yikes.
8
Seems like the marketplace HAS voted with its pocketbook. VS products have always been poorly made. Its outdated marketing image has only hastened its decline.
89
@SomethingElse
I have worn VS cotton undies for years and still have and wear some that are probably 20 years old! So not everything is poorly made!
30
As a company whose clientele is made entirely of women, or men purchasing products for women, Victoria's Secret could be easily targeted by a boycott. Women should vote with their pocketbooks and stop shopping there. That's really the only language wealthy powerful men understand. For once women are in a position of power against the perpetrators.
204
actually they are. the company is not as popular or profitable now and there has been a backlash from the consumer. give it time and they will file for bankruptcy.
20
@Mattfr The company is already suffering. Their exclusive advertising and refusal to make comfortable products for larger sizes doesn’t work in an era where most women are above a size 14. Victoria’s Secret has completely alienated women by marketing a fantasy nobody can relate to. -NW
21
It’s messy.
First, what do these girls expect when their brand is their bodies.
Second, these so called entrepreneurs, who launched Victoria’s Secrets, they aren’t exactly church going people, they have made a conscious choice to make a business of women’s bodies.
The right thing to do is to encourage girls to pursue education to pursue ‘non-body’ oriented careers (it is a bit disingenuous that they go for careers in Victoria Secrets, and then not think that male attention for other things would not be forthcoming). AND, call these leches who run things like VS - the men owners - the leches they really are.
Why doesn’t a Hillary or a Chelsea or a Warren or a Klobuchar or a Harris pick up these causes for women? And clean the swamp that is these VS men, and encourage women to not use their bodies for careers?
Seriously there is hypocrisy here on sides more than one.
61
@Vsh Saxena: Agreed. But men's weakness will always make being sexy an easy path to comfort and power for women. It's worth fighting such a seductive and constantly-reinforced but corrupting and less-fulfilling path, even for women who believe they don't have much to offer beside their good looks.
11
@Vsh Saxena
Hillary, Chelsea, Warren, Klobuchar and Harris are already leading by example. As "Me Too" so clearly shows, we women are capable of defending and advocating for ourselves. It's a changing world and we are the changemakers.
53
@Vsh Saxena
It might be useful to investigate the career options of the women who became VS models over the past decades. It's not messy. It's clear as a bell.
8
Never a VS customer, but not surprised. However, I did not know until recently that L Brands owns Bath and Body Works, a store I do patronize occasionally. Now there’s an “ick factor” about shopping there.
343
@Liberal In a Red State If you have a choice, similar price point, better quality ingredients, and an ethical company can be found instead at the Body Shop. They're often in the same malls as Bath and Body Works. Body Shop is slightly more expensive but not by much, esp. with sales. Also started by a woman.
54
@ms
Or help the planet and switch to natural emollients instead of that chemical-laden, plastic-packaged schlock. Get a glass jar of coconut oil or a metal can of grapeseed oil at your supermarket. Make your own bath bombs; there are a million recipes online. Think before you buy.
5
Wexner and Razek and his son are tremendously creepy men. So’s Richard Branson. So is Russell James. As a photographer, it’s baffling to me that he expected models to pose nude for him without compensation. But it also baffles that many models were cooperative and consented to have their images published in Jame’s book, again with no compensation.
234
@Tom its a dog eat dog kind of industry, I feel bad for the young models. They are practically teenagers being thrust into adult world with these old creepy exploitive men. Who is there to mentor or educate them to watch out for themselves. Most only learn from their own bad experiences.
9
@Tom Guess what? They believed they were receiving something of value. It was a trade.
1
Only a leach wouldn't pay his models for a published book. I'm sure he's been careful not to let people know that he's been doing so.
7
Wow! Glad that my total VS lifetime purchases are under $50. Though I regret even having spent that much.
63
I am also glad that I didn’t vote for the man who bragged his bravo in his Hollywood Tape..... though the Elected Republicans appears to be cheering his bravado !
39
@HN I only went there once- my sister had asked for a gift card for her birthday present. I have never understood how and why women got convinced that they have to buy and wear uncomfortable things whose sole purpose to arouse men.
9
I’m completely uncomfortable, as we walk, with my 11 year old son and my 17 year old daughter, in to the local Mall, and we see VS pictures of model, in a provoking pornographic pose. I don’t say anything; the boy says “why do women need to show their bodies like that just to sell underwear’s?” , my daughter says “because men are disgusting”. I said not all men are. But, seems hard to explain why in 2020, we still treat women as an object, rather than an equal being.
So, my family agree, we don’t buy/support VS. We try to donate to NP fighting human trafficking.
597
@SL Moran You're not crazy. Victoria's Secret is literally a physical real world equivalent of a skeezy pop up web ad and you're not the target audience. I haven't been to a mall in at least ten years minimum. I miss Orange Julius a lil, but that's about it.
46
Talk with them every chance you get about this and many other things, despite your discomfort!!
37
I’m sorry, but it’s hardly pornographic. Pictures of scantily clad women are not inherently wrong noe embarrassing for parents to have to explain. It’s those kinds of attitudes that cause so much of the rest of the world to marvel at how hypocritical Americans can be with sex- obsessed yet easily offended by its portrayal.
What’s more, we need to be extremely cautious in having our culture censored because our children asked difficult questions. That’s what kids do. And I’m not sure about anyone else, but my children will not be raised in an environment that seeks to denigrate portrayals of things that are regarded as sexy.
10
They may have tried cultivate a (male) fantasy with their ads and the ridiculous "fashion show" on television, but a trip to one of their stores revealed shoddy, overpriced merchandise, with store clerks who were often unwilling or unable to help with sizing. It's been about 15 years since I've been to a VS store, and even that revelation embarrasses me. My teenager says the brand is "not relevant" and shops instead at stores that feature all types of models, not the Barbie-standard of VS. Hopefully these latest revelations will be the death knell of this horrible brand run by horrible men.
406
Agreed on all points. I loved VS in high school (90s) when their items were satin, silk, cotton & romantic. They even sold clothes! But then word is they were purchased by equity investors (?) & it was all downhill: padded Everything, cheap material, flimsy fabrication & poorly paid & trained employees (with managers barking orders all the time). Totally unpleasant experience. Haven’t purchased there in Years. Aubade, la Petite Coquette, Journelle anyone? Why, Yes :)
52
OMG! Misogyny at Victoria’s Secret? Who would have thought???
“Some of its ad campaigns, for example, seem more like a stereotypical male fantasy”.....
SOME of its ad campaigns? You’ve got to be kidding!
Anyone who couldn’t see this a mile off intentionally had blinders on.
And as for the Victoria’s Secret “fashion show,” which many celebrities attended, what a joke. It has always been a trashy strip show.
I never shopped there, and when my daughter was old enough and she understood those giant images of women on the store windows, we laughed about how backwards and out of touch they were.
She introduced me to Aerie, which has much healthier images of the female body. I assume their photographers and executives aren’t creepy old men.
Why are people STILL not teaching their children, ESPECIALLY GIRLS, to trust their own common sense about what is good or bad, appropriate or inappropriate, healthy or not healthy?
It doesn’t require much intelligence to see that Victoria’s Secret was never about female empowerment, and was in fact all about the opposite.
764
@TJ
You are right. The feminist platform plank that invited (demanded) that girls/women "claim their sexuality" turned out to be more about displaying sexual availability in actual practice. VS was positioned to invite the male gaze but adolescent and teen girls were the real target and it paid off - for along time.
29
It is obvious what they are selling no secrets.
4
@TJ Adele in the past was the opposite of a healthy representative of the female body.
This is no revelation: the brand exploits women, not surprising that its work culture exploits women. Toxic masculinity indeed. Very happy to hear of its imminent collapse.
233
@S. E. D. Don't hold your breath.
Rather than “Victoria’s Secret defined femininity for millions of women” would it not be more accurate to say that men, corporate consumerism and the media messaged and sold the “definition” of “feminity” that was for the male gaze?
The Victoria’s Secret “definition” was that only thing that mattered was being young and sexy for men....
252
Was any of this a surprise to anyone?
It is so disturbing is that everyone just looked away and the masses just ate it all up.
It is all well and good to expose it retroactively but why not in the moment? Why can’t these revolting power hungry exploitive men be stopped in their tracks?
64
There has never been a time and a place where sexual harassment was OK. I long for a society in which my daughters and wife don't have to put up with piggish brutes.
147
misogyny is power arrayed against women. this story is horrible but not in any way surprising.
64
And this surprises who? Sigh...
60
I remember about 20 years ago wanting to buy something sexy for my girlfriend (now wife). They didn't have anything in her size. She is and was not obese or strangely proportioned, but that is not really the point. I had no trouble finding clothing and lingerie for her at other shops. It's just that her breast were larger than the small range of allowed breast size by Victoria's secret.
That failure to have clothing for a sizable portion of the population told me everything I needed to know about this despicable company.
97
@Edward Allen Same here. Then I gave birth and learned they didnt sell nursing bras. VS lost me then as a customer.
17
@Chris
That’s kind of a stretch. They aren’t JC Penney.
1
@Edward Allen
They don't promote "sexy women"...they promote "sexy teenagers"...
There's your breast size limit.
6
Poorly made, overpriced, thoroughly uncomfortable clothing that promoted men's notions of what women should wear. Never spent a dime in any of the stores and won't be sad to see them all disappear.
295
@FormerSubscriber Clothing made in sweatshops by poorly paid women & children.
4
Lingerie companies that go for sex appeal in their ad campaigns aren't ever targeting women. Instead, they're trying to tell women what men want. Victoria's Secret has been going downhill for ages. The quality is cheap, the prices are high, and the staff have a propensity to lie about measurements to get you to buy sizes that they have in-store. This is just another fantastic reason to avoid them, and I'll happily continue boycotting them until they shut their doors.
143
What? THE Victoria's Secret? The same company that deliberately keeps mall stores on life support as interactive advertisements to sell softcore modelling videos to cash flush old men? I mean, many women can fit into the underwear if they just go on a starvation diet, but how did this even happen?
46
Tammy Roberts Myers statement sounds like something the manager of a hotel would post when responding to a complaint on TripAdvisor.
54
What is astonishing is that, as any man in a position of influence can attest to, these men don't need to "try" to be with a model, to touch them inappropriately, to attempt to control them-- a man in power (just as a woman in power) will always attract people to him/her. But it is never enough, just like it is never enough money. Rather than receiving what is offered (and taking a professional risk), they become grasping, disgusting gluttons. I say this as a former teacher of adults, and a corporate manager. One must never pursue a student, patient, or report. And it is an abuse of power to respond to their advances.
177
@Jorge well said!
2
Jeffrey Epstein managed Mr. Wexner’s multibillion-dollar fortune. Sounds like Epstein also managed his PR.
97
It typically takes two to make a deal and thus I feel the complaints made should consider this fact.
I was introduced to Leslie Wexner at the Hemisphere's Condos by the pool in Hallandale Florida back around 1977. I was only 17 and he was in his upper 30's at the time. I was with a family caring for their child who knew him. He had just started the Limited stores at that time.
He seemed nice and we chatted about one of his stores in Peabody, MA.
I think people's fashion has changed as one big reason behind the fall of Victoria Secret which has been around for a long time and the 'casual' dress appears to be in for sleepwear. I have three girls in college in their ealy twenties and they have no interest in the products in the store.
I think research might have been missing and keeping up with the times.
20
How about rather then. “ Fashion???? Changing “
Perhaps some people are waking up to the obscene and tragic sexualization of young women and girls and all women,
And the wholesale pimping them out for profit .
It’s true, it’s a free country,
Except for the IV feeds of media and
Constant selling of women as objects,
For observation
Used to sell soap,cruises and cars.
68
Yes
“ Two to make a deal”
As a therapist for many years, it’s common knowledge that sexually abused little girls
Often come to this kind of work from a wounded and damaged self, this kind of emotional abuse is familial to them.
This type of man is familiar to them.
No
It isn’t a
“ Two to make a deal”
The cards are stacked
The Body Keeps Score
139
If one of your daughters filed a complaint, would you insist on an investigation to determine if she was complicit in making a “deal”?
78
Proud to say I have never shopped at Victoria’s Secret. They sell cheap, low quality merchandise.
460
@Lisa often manufactured in sweat shops with extremely low paid female workers trying to support families. Capitalism at it's best.
69
@Lisa This is what has always fascinated me about its popularity. The quality of its product is just terrible - ill-fitting, poorly constructed, and prone to fall apart.
11
@Lisa
Exactly! My opinion was always that the models were expensive, the underwear was cheap. I never bought any of it.
7
No wonder Wexner's talking about stepping down. I remember the pre-L Brands Victoria's Secret, and what it is today is no improvement but a gigantic step backwards.
51