Don't like Trump's plan? Where was Obama's plan to solve the Isr/Pal conflict?
3
It's time to stop appeasing the Palestinians. Isn't it obviousby now that the last thing Palestinians want is their own state?
3
no, it isn't. maybe turn it all back into Regulatory Palestine as it was known before it was stolen after WWII.
1
Kudos to Jared Kushner and his staff, it is a brilliant plan. It isn't workable given the politics of the Middle East, but it is what peace will look like one day. It is very surprising to me that Netanyahu is okay with land swaps. The plan gives substantial chunks of Israeli territory in exchange for Palestinian land on the West Bank. The U.S. doesn't do land swaps. In fact, I don't any country that I know of has done that. Population swaps, the Turks did that at the end of WWI. Ethnic cleansing yes, but land exchanges, remarkable. Beyond that the expansive economic plans in the appendices are inspiring. The politics remain of course deadly. The radical forces in the Middle East will never accept the plan. Perhaps an Iranian peace plan, approved long after the end of the Trump administration will enable a version of this plan a decade or generation from now.
2
Terrible plan- Palestine becomes a land-locked island within Israel and the "contiguous" part of Palestine is barely contiguous as Israel maintains three land peninsulas that virtually divide Palestine into three pieces. This is a joke of a "peace" plan and should be rejected out of hand.
4
When I think of the word “peace” the absolute last word I think of is “Trump”.
1
The NYT staff and those commenting on this article seem to conveniently leave out an essential fact. The Palestinians were not even willing to come to the table to negotiate this deal. This is because they don't care about making a deal. The only deal Palestinians will agree to is one in which Israel is completely eradicated.
Holocaust Remembrance Day was only two days ago. "Never Again" is not some empty slogan. The state of Israel will do whatever it takes so that the events of the past will never repeat themselves. If that means Israel is disliked by people who don't understand the history of the Jewish people and the true reason a Jewish state exists, so be it.
6
Although this plan is referred to as a peace plan, it is anything but. If adopted, it is more likely to be condemned by all other parties in the Middle East. The US will have to exercise a veto in the UN Security Council to avoid censure. Finally, it will also promote a flare up of violence.
The visuals say it all. Compare the scene at the White House yesterday--the US President in lock step with a triumphant Israeli PM--with the images of Sadat and Begin and of Rabin and Arafat on the White House lawn, instances when US diplomacy and Presidential engagement led to real steps towards peace. I applaud the courage of the 12 US Senators who wrote in opposition to this one-sided, politically motivated scheme.
The intent of this proposal is to allow Israel to continue to control the entire territory between the Mediterranean and the Jordan River while creating an illusion of Palestinian sovereignty. This is meant to disguise the reality that there would be effectively a single entity in the area in which half the population is denied political participation. The US should not be party to such a proposal much less its author.
2
This past weekend here in Santa Maria, I watched a demonstration with a couple hundred, 2, maybe 300 people carrying Israeli flags. Nothing against them, but what caught my eye was that as I got closer, I noticed that the majority of them were Mexicans. Then I noticed some placards for a local Christian Church of a denomination I can't recall. I believe this is a case where the people marching with the signs, are told what to do by the church. I'd be willing to bet that the people marching know nothing of the situation other than what their pastor told and and what he wants them to know. Most of them did not speak English. They were being used.
1
There was one realistic statement in this article, "You've lost, get over it." This plan may indeed be self-serving political cover for Bibi and Trump, but the Palestinians have no leverage anymore, and are incapable of learning from their own past failures.
It is a shame that the Nathan Thrall letter on this issue does not allow comments. It is a classic example of a western useful idiot in thrall to an absurdly distorted account of the history of this conflict.
10
@Frank Knarf
It sounds like you are the one with a distorted account of the history of the region.
3
The world is funny...when your political party controls the media. Obama won a Nobel Prize...less than 8 months after being sworn in. For...what? He did nothing at that point, except accelerate his drone killing program. Trump basically argues the same points...that the US troops need to come home. Because he has a big mouth and is addicted to ridiculous comments on social media, and because he is a Republican, we tirelessly work to tarnish his record, despite real, quantifiable gains. By any measure, he has done far more for people that Barack Obama did in 8 years. This impeachment will not remove him from office. Let's rest assured that Democrats are living off taxpayer dollars coming up with the next big scheme to try and knock him down. It is too bad they can't find a real candidate we can take seriously for America.
12
the question is: what people has Trump done more for?
5
@kabee
The rich corporations and the super wealthy down to the wealthy (poor dears only have millions not billions ahhh such is life).
The rest of us not so much...
But I will take any amount more as I had many years of struggling to make ends meet.
Just an old man's opinion...
3
Sad. So very sad.
1
I am an 82 year old Hindu with no allegiance to either of the "abrahamic" faiths of the middle has lived in the US for 60 +years mostly as a US citizen and has no specal affinity for Hinduism or any religion. And I have been reading the bible = currently the Old Testament, I have also traveled-worked in various middle east countries including Israel. I have been to Mount Nebo and was told about Moses' telling his followers the promised land. And I think tof=day's peace deal is Netanyahu's view of the promise made by Moses with the following bloody settlement of Israel people who followed Moses disregarding the rights of the "Ismaeli"branch of Abraham. And Trump, who probably has not studied the Old testament and now has a "Conservative"Jewish son-in-law to create a peace plan to deny the Ishmali people righjt to leave where they lived before the original settlement of Jews and before their arrival from Europe with the help of British and French winners of the two "world" wars. The real settlement will be if both the Israelis and Ishmaelis live as ine nation with equal rights, worshipping theiorown way and respect each others's religion. Trump does not care what it is as long as he wins in 2020 and stays out of jail for 4 more years.
13
Two elections, two criminals, no peace.
26
Haven’t the Israelis figured out yet the Evangelicals don’t actually like them but instead are only interested in forcing their conversion since that will bring about the end of the world and the return of their intolerant God?
I’m an atheist and even I know that.
11
They know that and they also know that it doesn’t matter.
3
Worth reading:
"Trump’s Middle East Peace Plan Exposes the Ugly Truth"
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/29/opinion/trump-peace-plan.html
1
The “plan” is the will of right wing extremist Israeli zealots. Nothing more, nothing less. They are trying to shove it down the throats of a people who have been subjugated and abused by their Israeli colonizers for years on end. Homes bulldozed, restricted from their own cities and towns, wanton arrests for years on end without ever being charged. The list of humiliations is endless. The Israeli spin here is breathtaking. The Israelis are not the victims, as they continually claim, when they are seizing land and placing another people under quasi apartheid.
11
@PK
Look up the history of the area and how many times the Arabs have attacked Israel. Israel accepted the 1948 UN Partition Plan, the Arabs rejected it. Jordan illegally occupied East Jerusalem and denied Jewish entry to the holiest Jewish places. The Arabs have had several opportunities to 95% of what they want, but always reject it because they have repeatedly refused to accept a permanent Jewish state.
1
Anything the President does to stay in power is in the national interest... per Dershowitz. Great! Because his Ukraingate activity was illegal it is in the national interest to impeach Trump and find him guilty. These guys aren’t lawyers, they’re con artists. They’re not even good con artists!
10
Two pathetic old crooks pretending to create a fair deal in an attempt to get re-elected. As DJT would say SO SAD!
9
I am relieved to hear that the plan is not the complete annexation of Gaza and the West Bank plus the resettlement of the Palestinians in Europe.
1
It is ‘a deal’ ONLY IF the parties have ALL been involved. This is a ‘surrender’ proposal. The Palestinians wont agree. Israel may take it BUT will regret it in a few decades. And the refrain ‘next tear in Jerusalem’ will be reborn.
2
This "peace plan" is yet more evidence that Trump is operating US foreign policy for his own personal political benefit. Add this to the impeachment proceedings.
5
A Carthaginian peace.
7
Shocking that the NYT doesn’t like this deal. If it had been Mr. Obama’s this publication would be calling it a stroke of genius. You folks are so transparent.
8
@Thomas Aquinas, sorry to have to be among the first
to tell you, but...President Obama would never have made
this deal -- a decision which, by the way, would have been
not only correct, but also "a stroke of genius."
8
@Thomas Aquinas: Your comment here is opaque: your opinion which is clear does not match the reporting in the NYTimes all these years and is sophomoric attempt to dig at 44 and apparently support 45.
3
@Thomas Aquinas Shocking that a Peace Plan by businessman Jared Kushner promising $50 Billion would not be loved by poor people. "Let them eat crumbs; you ungrateful dogs'. Jared did the work as a Charity case; only taking 29% of the $50 mbillion
2
Trumpt just trying to put his thumb on another election "scale" for his ilk (Bibi) - recipe for a conflagration
5
It's obvious, they're two peas in a pod. Bibi doesn't want peace and the tweeter-in-chief and his surrogate, the 'princeling' don't care. A perfect trio.
13
CYA!! A band of desperate, corrupt politicians trying to bolster their flagging and crumbling empires without a Palestinian in sight! Why would there be, they can't voice an opinion for four more years. What made any of them think voters from either country could be influenced by the United Emirates Ambassadors?
5
Once again, Trump has proven that he doesn't know how to negotiate or obtain a political agreement.
In fact, just like with his signature campaign promises at home (building a wall and repealing and replacing Obamacare), he doesn't even TRY to make a deal.
So of course, two corrupt politicians agreeing to grab it all, against the will of the Palestinian and the rest of the world, isn't an "agreement" or a deal.
It's a unilateral declaration of intentions, which will go nowhere.
What an utterly weak man.
6
@Ana Luisa
These policies have been going on for decades, the US is footing the bill, it and the EU fund the military and settlements and will veto any resolution against Israel it provides cover for human rights abuses on the WB and in Gaza and the whole brutal occupation. The US is a partner to war crimes and human rights abuses. Trump is only continuing old policies and no one will stop him, they did not when they annexed the Golan Heights either. The silence will be bipartisan. too.
3
January 29, 2020
Surely, it's a greater plan for both States of Palestine and Israel in that economic development is the key note to this Trump / Netanyahu offering. These communities are historic cousins in blood and in historic regional blessings that all the world enjoys the narrative and with peace to celebrate eternally. A proud joint sharing of history and region will transmit to better angels and President Lincoln would say.
2
@Joseph John Amato
One-Party proudly shares with whom a joint history? The oppressor and the oppressed jointly share what? The hatred created during decades of brutal occupation will take a hundred years or more to heal.
6
@Joseph John Amato Trump's promise of $50 Billion is Gold; take it to the Bank; Solid. Trump would never; ever; never back out of his word.
2
This deal is about Don and Bibi. No more, no less.
The fact that Saudi Arabia and other formerly hostile states towards Israel are supportive raises my suspicions even more about the motives. Trump and Kushner are far too personally invested in this.
4
Germany after WWI was so badly punished that they could have had every reason to say what Abbas has said: "No, no, no, tousand times no"
But Germany had a rational leadership, they accepted the extremely hard peace conditions and worked so hard that not even 20 years later they were ready for another war, started by themselves !
That to say with nos you don't go ahead, ypu should accept and build on it.
1
Can somebody explain me why a deal between Palestine and Israel is finalized in USA? Is Israel is a new state in the USA? Is it not right that Israel and Palestine sit, discuss and solve this as it is their bilateral issue? Why Mr. trump need to involve here?
5
The Palestinian perspective, as currently espoused by Hamas, the state of Israel is illegitimate and can not exist. Hamas (a Palestinian Islamic movement founded in 1987 with the aim of establishing a Palestinian state incorporating present-day Israel and the West Bank.) wiki, now speaking for the Palestinian National Authority, will not negotiate and sees armed struggle as the only solution, as it has been for eons in the region, to achieve their goals.
As Hamas is supported by the people of Palestine, then it will be up to the people of Palestine to consider the proposed "Peace Plan", sans Hamas.
The original refugees, those people who were told to stay in place in 1949 because the armies of the surrounding Arab states would soon remove the Zionists, did as they were told, and yet? Didn't happen in spite of multiple tries. Are they hoping: one more time? Eventually a stalemate.
Does Trump's plan encode what is already a reality? especially: no right to return? If so, then the children of the original refugees, and their children, who are jobless with limited opportunities may decide that they just want something rather than the nothingness in which they try to live their lives.
Rather than leave it up to politicians and authoritarian governance, maybe the "plan" is not such a bad idea after all.
4
Israel and the U.S. Trump and Bibi. Clearly, the Palestinians are now not only subject to history's injustices, but also future elections and trials of criminal leaders in these two nations. We hear so little about our allies' positions, or about those of the Palestinians, in all of this. One can only assume that, as with almost all of what passes for U.S. foreign policy these days, important European, Asian and Middle Eastern players see through the charade and are not on board.
4
Do the pro Israel folks in the USA not realize that trump and Netanyahu’s actions are going to backfire on them and their respective countries?
3
“Total abandonment of decades of US Middle East policy”
What else are you supposed to do?
Hold on to yo the dead horse?
Decades of of US Middle East policy , offering Palestinians plan after plan and getting rejected, had failed.
The train has left the station. Your last chance for an independent state.
6
Why can't they just divvy up the "dirt" and go their separate ways. It's Groundhog Day all over again.
2
One must pray hard that openly corrupt Trump is removed from office.
It is unbelievable that any honorable Republican would want to save him. I guess there are near ZERO good men among Republicans.
If there were we would not have wrecked Iraq in Bush’s long senseless war and would not recently have damaged the brains our boys in a thoughtless disgusting murder of one meager Iranian general.
1
Again, despots are on the rise throughout the world. In many ways, this is similar to the despotism the world witnessed in the 1930s , with disastrous outcomes for many nations. Fortunately, the despotism of the 1930s was ultimately defeated because in the words of President Ronald Reagan in the 1980s, the United States was "a shining city on a hill". Meaning, since the continental U.S. was not under direct attack, we were able to provide both the personnel and material resources necessary for ultimate victory by the Allied Powers.
Of course, despots come to power in many ways, including popular elections. Regardless, of how despots gain power, the signs and signals of present day despotism are all around us. However, we have to chose to see this inconvenient truth.
2
@Dearson I think despots come to power when citizens don't understand how important their vote is and stay home. Polititians need to be clea about their long term goals as well as their supporters.
Trump is being impeached and Netanyahu is under indictment for a colorful group of felonies.Neither of these thugs have ever, not once, done anything that wouldn't benefit them first.This is Jared's plan he worked on for 4 years?Where did Javanka rustle up the 82 million reported on their 2018 tax return.This is nothing but a crime syndicate and we citizen's are being taken to the cleaner.
9
Someone please explain this fine example of Orwellian logic. Trump promises a "undivided Jerusalem " to Israel and a Palestine capital in..... you guessed it.... in "East Jerusalem." This is like someone who claims he is a virgin who has fathered 6 kids. How stupid does Trump think people are.
5
@KJ Peters Apparently he is calling a place "East Jerusalem" that is not, in fact, actually part of Jerusalem.
1
@MarcS
Yes. A repeat of his sharpie on the map tactic.
This is indeed the deal of the century. For Israel, that is. It can keep everything that it has grabbed, and Jerusalem is now its declared capital. And the cash will keep flowing.
The Palestinians, you ask? Oh, don't worry about them... they'll be just fine. Did we ask them if they like this deal? Oh, I don't see how that matters at al...
6
@PT
They won't be satisfied....ever until Israel is wiped out.
So, much for a globalized thoughts that commentators on this board dish out.
2
PT - look at the map. Three big chunks of Israel would be turned over to the Palestinians. They would also get a road/tunnel to Gaza and access to Israel’s two largest shipping ports. The biggest thing they would have to give up is the ability to turn Israel into the worlds 23rd Arab- majority country.
1
I am repulsed by the anti Israel liberal fantasy that you have to be neutral and respect both "sides" of this conflict..
On one side you have a warmongering corrupt poverty machine daily launching missiles at civilians..... And the other "side" a peace loving, prosperous, democracy..
To my leftist friends.... Which "side" are you on.
12
Wow! I never looked at it in such a clearly biased way before! You have definitely helped close my eyes!
1
Maybe do. But looking at the proposed map I can certainly say it is a product of some idiot amateur 5 min job.
@Freednoe
We are on the side of justice.
And justice means taking history into account.
Palestinians are waging a war against those who stole their parents land and killed many of them.
NO peace will EVER be conceivable as long as you decide to put your head in the sand and ignore recent history.
2
The corollary article to this piece re the muted response of other Arab countries is revelatory. The political landscape and alliances in the Middle East have change dramatically in the last 20 years. The Palestinian cause is no longer a priority.
I agree that Trump and Netanyahu are a couple of self serving , right wing dictators, but they are powerful ones.
Without support from other Arab countries this conflict will die and the Israelis will have their way - which in the end is ‘we take everything ,the Palestinians lose everything’ and the world moves on and accepts the new reality.
The failure of the Palestinian leaders to move on from terrorism to a genuine interest in the welfare of the Palestinian people, which requires compromise and a unequivocal acceptance of Israel’s right to exist has doomed any possibility of a two state solution, or economic viability for their people.
Hamas will now have to move on to being only a proxy terrorist group for Iran ( which they already are) and get their funding from a source other than stealing the aide money given to Palestinians from the EU and the US. Will they survive.? If not their are plenty of other terrorist groups they can join that would be happy to have their well honed skills.
3
@Gwen Vilen
For Israelis, there is no reason to compromise with Palestinians, the US and Europeans are footing the bills for Israel, they don't feel and don't see any kind of restrictions in their personal life, they live in peace, they are not occupied. In return, the Israelis are our PROXIES.
Palestinians have legitimate grievances, we can deny it all we want, but it is a fact and the world knows it.
At least Trump is trying. It’s better than anything previous administrations tried with the Middle East or North Korea. Had this been Obama he would have received a 2nd Nobel Peace Price, because the 1st one was an empty gesture just for getting elected🤣
6
@JOSEPH
Unilaterally deciding, as US president, that you'll support all that a current corrupt Israeli president wants, is not "trying".
To try to negotiate a peace deal, you have to at least try to negotiate, remember?
@JOSEPH Political stunts are not "trying".
This isn't a peace plan. It's a joint clemency petition by two guys with serious legal troubles, with a zoning variance proposal for the West Bank thrown in. Want peace? Bring all parties to the table and negotiate in good faith, steps notably lacking here.
5
@Michael Stevens And if one part does not want (the Palestinians refused to seat at the discussion table) what should you do ?
Waiting gor somone who never is ready ?
@Mary, I think that the Palestinians declined to participate in what they knew was a sham process with a predetermined outcome. Who could blame them? That's not the path to peace.
Wow, maybe Trump is a genius: having one party negotiate agreement with itself really streamlined the process.
13
@JFB It's positively putinesque!
4
I'm shocked. After all presidents before him have FAILED miserably to end Middle East conflict...before the ink has dried on Trump's attempt the liberal media has mocked his plan. This actually gives me hope...considering how wrong the liberal media has been about Trump since he announced his candidacy to run for president.
5
@Tom
This is a deal that one of the two sides has already announced is dead on arrival.
How do you suggest Trump and his Middle-East expert, Jared Kushner, proceed now?
3
@Tom
Tom, a actual deal needs both sides to agree to it. Trump did try a new method. He struck a deal with Israel, they love it, and the Palestinians, well they can like it or lump it. That's not a agreement, it's a ultimatum. Examine the Irish-UK Good Friday accords. that's a peace plan that produced results. Trumps plan is being mocked because he only brought one side of the conflict into the deal. he gets a participation trophy, but you can't have a deal without the Palestinians signing onto it. Have the Palestinians signed on? No. Sorry,the master of the deal struck out.
@Tom
Let's see ... no Iran deal, no deal with the Palestinians, no deal with the GOP to build a wall or repeal and replace Obamacare ... and somehow you still believe that the problem isn't a totally incompetent and lying Trump, but ... the liberal media ... ?
A bit strange, no?
What a show! Tune in next week to find our who goes and who stays.
Heck, this "peace plan" might just work. At least it admits the reality which has existed for decades: it's all over but the shoutin'.
After decades of building in the Occupied Territories, by "eating the cheese while it's being negotiated," Israel has created a de facto Palestinian state, whether anyone likes it or not. Look at the map. How could a contiguous Palestine with regular borders ever be built out of that mess? Be it a "state minus" or a "rump state," or something along the lines of a self-governing enclave like Monaco, Palestine has been born.
The future has, again, everything to do with how the two parties choose to work together. If Israel is magnanimous in victory, and pours massive, sincere support into the new Palestine ala' the Marshall Plan, and the Palestinians are ready to get on with reality, we may find this this doesn't end with a bang, but a whimper - and a really nice high tech/financial hub in the Middle East.
4
Get rid of both of them and the world will be more peaceful.
6
@Paul G Don't forget to add Iran.
Wonder how long it will take for trump to have BiBi nominate him for the Nobel Peace Prize for “settling” the Mideast conflict? Since he didn’t get it for Korea, this must look like a slam-dunk opportunity! Gotta keep up with if not outdo Obama.
3
You’ve lost, get over it :) or more like in the Americans show when after committing injustices, they say: it had to be done for the greater good!
1
A plan for peace that doesn't include any input at all from Palestine by two "leaders" who are among the most corrupt in the world struggling to hold into power so they can avoid jailtime? That's not a peace plan, it's a bad joke. I'm surprised this is getting coverage as if it was anything substantive at all. They might as well have saved 181 pages of this report and written, "Israel seized the land by force and intends to keep it, no matter what anyone says." Because that's all this is. What a farce.
9
Why should Israel compromise, the US and Europeans foot the bill, only the Palestinians suffer and get killed and humiliated?
Congress will support whatever the Israelis do and the US will veto any resolution against the Israelis. Trump and Netanyahu know they will get what they want, no questions asked, no risk involved.
1
"With rare self-discipline, he never mentioned the word impeachment."
You can't say the same for the reporters present at the announcement.
Listen to the video. It's embarrassing.
3
@Raz He didn't mention it because it would have been embarrassing for him considering his impeachment defense is about him being so incredibly concerned with corruption, and yet here he is standing next to, lauding and applauding a leader indicted on corruption charges.
Not a good look, even by Trump standards.
No wonder he didn't want to bring it up.
Four years and International Criminal Court investigations put the Palestinians in a strong position to negotiate. Israel covets the Jordan boarder; Palestinians should go for more of the Mediterranean. The Palestinians should cut a deal with China or Russia for a Belt and Road port, this will give them more bargaining chips. Rent the settlements or internet service back to the Israelis. Make Gaza the headquarters for the war on Climate Change. The Palestinians should hire some of Trumps lawyers, especially Rudy Giuliani. Beat them at their own game!
1
There is never going to be another fully autonomous Palestinian state (apart from Jordan, which occupies 80% of the land that was historic Palestine).
That ship has sailed...thanks to 70+years of Arab intransigence, warmongering, intifadas, and terrorism. They got what they paid for now.
10
This "deal" strangely reminds me of the way Indian tribes were dealt with in North America, land-grab, promises, broken promises and then reservations. In the end, the Palestinians will live on reservations, small pockets of useless land abandoned by Israël because they are worthless. Meanwhile, the Europeans look the other way as they did when the Jews were being deported.
8
If one were to look in Webster's Dictionary for the definition of "Greed", one would find a picture of Benjamin Netanyahu. America never gives him/Israel "enough". Fifty Billion dollars of "just" Military Equipment was "not enough". Yet, America gave the Palestinians zero Military or Financial Support.
Trump/Beni's "Peace Plan" is a hollow piece of garbage.
Trump like's Beni's style of getting what he wants. Both of these "men" are caught in corruption of their own making, and yet ... the beat goes on, (and on ...) as they swagger, and make the World safe for ... themselves.
Governments are supposed to serve their People - not the other way around. Both of these "men" show how low a human being can sink, and yet still think that they can rule.
Lock them up !!
USA...how does THIS deal sound?
Levantine Israel returns to some agreed upon pre-1967 border and Jerusalem is run by a joint Palestinian and Israeli group of technocrats with input from UNESCO and the Disney Corporation (for tourism)
For Israelis whose overarching concerns are security, historic refugee resettlement and expansion the USA will gift the So. California counties of Los Angeles, San Bernardino, Orange, Riverside, San Diego and Imperial to Israel to form the sovereign state of Pacific Israel. Together these SoCal counties add up to about the same area as contemporary Israel, the climate is very similar, economic opportunities better and was already ethnically cleansed in the 19th century. We Americans can collectively put our money where our mouth is and give up some of OUR vast territory for the the sake of “Middle East peace” along with security for the Jewish people. What a fitting end to the last unfinished battle of WW2 and the last millennium’s toxic anti-Semitism. After all...isn’t this what we have been asking Palestinians to do for the last 70 years? What say you patriotic freedom loving US citizens? Wasn’t the creation of the state of Israel in large part thought (by financially broke Europe) to be a convenient “solution” for freedom seeking post-WW2 Jewish refugees anyway?
My guess is that many Israelis would prefer living in LA and out of range of Iran anyway. Many already do!
As for relocating current occupants, I’m sure the new “settlers” can manage.
President Trump could achieve world piece, and the NY Times would find something wrong with it.
7
@Raz
When trump achieves world peace i will cancel my Times subscription and vote to have him be emperor for life. But since the actuary tables only give me ten to twenty more years to live the NYT can count on me for a little more time. Raz, don't hold your breath on that prediction coming through. You won't make it. By the way, how many nukes has North Korea disabled? trump said he solved that problem already.
@Raz
…world peace!
My editing leaves something to be desired.
1
@Raz LOL. He'd probably also spell it "world piece" in his tweet.
1
wonder how much property has been set aside for the trump family to build trump Israel tower.
3
@Restore Human Sanity Probably as many barrels of money sent to Iran set aside for Obama, Biden, Kerry and Clinton.
2
Palestinians will never accept a peace plan that allows Jews to survive as a people, let alone Israel to survive as a nation. The naïveté of those who believe otherwise, especially other Jews, is extreme.
8
I am reminded of the ending of Animal Farm whenever I think of Israel and reading this "Peace Plan".
6
Can you imagine what happens at the next annual UN General Assembly?
Israel puts forward a resolution defining the phony State of Palestine and all of its limitations?
The UNGA votes to retract its former resolution recognizing the State of Palestine?
Ya gotta be kiddin me!!
1
What's pathetic about these "trumped-up" peace talks is that
their architects -- 2 thoroughly Corrupt, Narcissistic Oafs --
because of their stuck-up, horse-blinder personalities, haven't
a clue that, in the court of public opinion, not one Palestinian
(and not one pro-Palestinian) will support their self-interested
tripe.
7
@Ken
Things like this are the seeds for more antisemitism.
1
@ARL -- With all due respect, I beg to differ.
"Things like this are the seeds for more"
Resistance Against Despots.
1
why does America have to pay for this. Is Israel broke? this is a joke right? Why should the tax payers pay for anything in Israel when have they done anything for us? What am I getting for this investment.
Please go on and tell my why we have to keep paying for Trumps friends. Israel seems like a grownup place wit adults that can solve their own problems Israel isn't my problem, with their own MONEY . Go home Bibi.
3
@Travis `
If the Israelis had to pay their own bills they would have reason to compromise, as it is they have no reason to negotiate honestly with the really suffering Palestinian people.
1
@Travis `
If the Israelis had to pay their own bills they would have reason to compromise, as it is they have no reason to negotiate honestly with the real suffering Palestinian people. In return, Israel helps to protect American interests in the ME.
1
@Travis ` What is the US paying for? Trump isn't proposing the US pay the $50 billion. He thinks rich Arab states and others are going to pay it.
The Final Annexation.
3
@Stephen Sad.
1
Only a Trump University graduate would come up with such a "deal" or maybe it is a rehash of one of Jared's childhood fantasies cooked up to entertain Netanyahu on one of his visits to the Kushner family mansion.
1
@Friday
The Trumps are continuing the policies, only much faster than the previous governments did. It has been a steady march to annex the Palestinian land, Trump just did it fast, the congress will support it after a few platitudes against it.
Netanyahu is no better or less corrupt than Trump. If Israelis have a conscience, they need to impeach N and run him out of office into a jail cell.
9
This is sanction Apartheid. The US is the new dictatorship. Shameful.
6
Anytime you see “Analysis” in the headline it means it’s an opinion article from the Editorial team disguised as an objective news article.
1
It Is a great plan for peace. I have no problems with it. But I’m sure The NYT will have a problem with my comment. Oh well.
7
@DK How can it be a great plan for peace if one side has already rejected it?
What grotesque jokes both Trump and Netanyahu are! Not jokes, however, for the people of Palestine and the rest of the Middle East. A casual observer might call their meeting the meeting of two profoundly racist minds.
2
Did anybody really think that Jared Kushner, Donald Trump, and Benjamin Netanyahu were going to achieve peace in the Middle East? This is a short-term political maneuver and nothing more. The LSD-laced ravings of Timothy Leary make more sense than these claims do.
This ranks right up there with Netanyahu's recent accusation that the International Criminal Court's call to investigate alleged war crimes committed by Israeli forces in Palestinian-controlled areas is rooted in anti-Semitism. Really?
Anybody who disagrees with Trump is a traitor and anybody who disagrees with Netanyahu is anti-Semitic. And yet Trump speaks of tiki-torch Nazis in Charlottesville chanting "Jews will not replace us" as "fine people". By Trump's and Netanyahu's criteria the majority of American Jews are both traitors and anti-Semitic. How insane is that?
These people are crude, self-serving opportunists motivated by nothing more than what they perceive to be short term personal interest and operating by wrapping themselves in the fantastical lie-of-the-week. They are a threat to the Jewish people, the Palestinians, America, and the whole of humanity.
6
@Garrett
But who is going to stop them? They annexed the Golan Heights, moved the embassy to Jerusalem and continue to build more settlements all funded with US and European money. And no one stopped them and no one will stop them this time either, there will be no debate and they will quietly move and do what they said they will do. And if there are violent reactions they will blame the Palestinians. They should have signed the peace plane as-is and all would have been fine.
Donald Trump is hallucinating
1
@Rolf
Maybe, but it looks like he gets his way again like last time when they annexed the Golan Heights and no one mentioned it. And what a noise when Russia took the Crimea back.
The sophistry in here is beginning to pile up.
Now it's being said that because Michigan's tip isn't connect to Michigan itself, the Trump-Bibi plan for a Palestinian rabbit-warren is exactly like the good old USA.
Truly, the wasteland of Zionism is well, Trump.
2
I can only hope that the majority of Jewish US citizens find this "peace" plan as unethical, despicable, deviant as I do and recognize it for the desperate distraction attempts by two beleaguered individuals.
2
The whole thing stinks to high heaven, no matter the fate of these two criminals. For once, let’s be totally frank about this: Israel hasn’t done anything since 1967 to justify our continued support for their illegal colonial activity. Everyone else in the world clearly sees that. Too much for you, NYTimes??
2
@Check His Power Now
You are forgetting that Israel was attacked back in 1967 and had to fight as a lion to survive . Israel was capable to reject the attackers beyond the lines where they had come from.
Palestinians have not yet understood why they were defeated and of course they claim Israel "illegally" defeated them. In the meantime Palestinians people are the victims their own leadership
2
Another smoke & mirror 'art if the deal.
What a bunch of baloney. Do they think were all stupid? Kushner spent 3 years working on this project? Go back to your old do-nothing job Kushner.
3
Absolutely right, the leadership of other countries have to consider the interests of themselves and their own citizenry, not that of the Palestinian people. What has the world gotten for propping op the Palestinian people with 80 years of UN charity? What has the United States gotten for sending hundreds of millions of dollars every year to the Palestinian Authority? We have a divided Palestinian people, where Hamas refuses to recognize Israel, Fatah refuses to negotiate with Israel, Hamas and Fatah kill each other, and absolutely no realistic hope that a functioning, viable Palestinian state can be cobbled together. Has their example helped the rest of the Arab world? Those youth are more interested in the economic future of their own countries, and they are terrified of Iran; as one Saudi put it, quoting loosely, "if I'm flying against Iran, I'd just as soon have an Israeli pilot alongside me". So how about we give what we see as a reasonable basis for negotiation, just as Donald Trump has done, and then worry about our own concerns such as American health care and infrastructure? If the Europeans and private donors wish to keep sending money, that's their business. Not that of our government.
5
The Palestinians never negotiate; they simply demand the impossible. Remember when Arafat turned down a deal with Begin and Israel that gave him approximately 95% of his demands for Palestinian autonomy? Arafat never really wanted a deal, or an autonomous Palestinian state. What he wanted was continued conflict, which would maintain him as the leader of the perceived Palestinian martyrs struggling against the evil Jewish state. The current Palestinian leaders will likewise turn down this new deal; they know that their spigot of aid and weapons from Iran and other radical Islamic states will dry up if they sign on to peace. And peace means the end of their power hold over their own people.
12
This is just more of the same tired Trump PR tactics. Make a grand announcement with magical thinking declarations, declare it a brilliant deal in which everyone gets what they want and the unfortunate loser in the deal is promised to be very rich in the end. We've heard this one before. All lovely until people stop and look at the details, as Mr. Sanger has. and then the illusion falls away and we see it for what it is; political theater to try and save two power-hungry,crooked, politicians.
3
Looks to me like this is, among other things, yet another instance of Trump putting his own private interests ahead of the wellbeing of the nation. This is a peace plan like Trump is a president. This will cause more regional chaos, more terrorism, more violence. The picture this paints will be indelible: an impeached president conspiring with an indicted prime minister.
3
The concept of peace is an anathema to a person like Trump. In contrast, the methods Trump employs in his dealings and is entertained by are anger and hatred. Just watch one of his rallies if you doubt it.
3
Is anyone surprised that Trump, who wanted to buy Greenland regardless of the self right of determination of its residents, would disregard those very rights to others in the occupied territory of the West Bank.
I am embarrassed to an American
3
@ed scott Hey, Ed, Long story short and as an FYI - I once got a designer night gown at Bloomingdales for one cent (among other discounts/freebies during my lifetime). If you don't ask, the answer will always be "no."
You can bet that the way the US will push it's plan will be to bully anyone who doesn't get right on board. Imagine what tools Trump might use, once Republicans let him off the hook for his Ukraine crime, to get his way. I fear for the entire world. It isn't a question of what Trump will do but a question of what won't he do.
3
Well, if this little charade doesn't work to distract the country from impeachment, he'll just have to ramp up provocations against Iran.
2
Trump has mostly been successful with his international agreements, and the Palestinians have no leverage. Something is better than nothing, and my expectation is they will agree to it - Unless they think waiting for Biden as president will help, and then they can blow things up and shoot rockets to gain attention and sympathy with the left wing in the US. My guess the Israelis have a contingency for that scenario and the Palestinian leadership knows it.
1
The first peace deal was offered to the Palestinians in 1948; all they had to do is relinguish their ancestral land.
They rejected it.
The second deal came in 1967 in the form of a 'preventive self defense war', that cost them the loss of East-Jerusalem, the entire West bank and the Golan Heights, plus the Sinai, without even giving them time to reject it.
The third came in 1973, when they foolishly thought that they can take back what's theirs. This fallacy cost them huge chunks of land taken up by settlements.
Then came the Gaza evacuation peace deal in 2005, that cut what was still contiguous territory into 2, creating the world's largest open air prison and a giant fish barrel that can be used for target practice. They rejected that too.
I'm at a loss understanding their propensity for rejecting everything.
2
@waldo What is so difficult to get? You spelled it out...GIVE UP YOUR LAND. What if Trump told Trudeau that same? Do you finally get it?
1
Its hard to imagine that the WH has proposed a peace plan with little to no buy in by the Palestinians. That would seem to be doomed to failure.
2
This "dual loyalty" stuff is out in the open now and is not a "conspiracy theory".
Of all US attempts to find 'solution' to the immemorial middle East issue, this one is probably one which cannot be called solution at all and which deserves minimal attention. DT might be the US president who aligned himself with Israel most openly and unrestrictedly, to some sort of delight of the mainstream US, so how could such a person (i.e. team trying to materialize his 'ideas') come with anything which is remotely palatable to the side opposite to Israel?
That said, the Palestinians had in the past some chance to come up with something useful for them, they 'proudly' rejected, and their position in this cat and mouse game remains, and will remain, that of an ever smaller, thinner, sickly mouse which will in the end either perish or join the cat.
"The Israeli-Palestinian peace plan unveiled by President Trump and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu sounds more like a road map for their own futures than for the Middle East."
Hands up - who is surprised?
2
"Trump's Peace Plan"? This is a modern version of the Holy Roman Empire--neither Holy nor Roman, nor an Empire. It is Netanyahu's, not Trump's. It has nothing to do with peace. And it isn't even a plan.
3
Well, Bibi* looks happy! The asterix is to point out that the man will be charged with corruption. Sounds familiar?
And as for 45*'s 'huge and bigly stable-genious-like' peace plan, designed by that son-in-law of him, has a couple of fatal flaws. The biggest one is that you can not design a plan for two parties if one of the parties is not involved. And sure that Bibi*'s side is happy, they get to keep what they took from the other party.
And as for the Dollars thrown into this 'deal', sad how 45* and his son-in-law cannot grasp that money DOES NOT buy you whatever you want.
1
With a demeaning opening offer to the Palestinian people there is no path forward. Embarrassing interview given by Jared Kushner with Christiane Amanpour who opined about his self certified three year study.
This defies reason and integrity and a sad view of the human condition.
2
" The Israeli-Palestinian peace plan unveiled by President Trump and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu sounds more like a road map for their own futures than for the Middle East. "
Shocking I say, shocking....
1
There is nothing like watching bunch of self-serving Europeans trying to continue carving up the Middle East to secure their own interests while throwing a bone to the Middle East populations.
1
How about a 21 Century solution?
While Hamas waits to launch another war this is a Versailles-like threat that after 4 wars, Intifadas and suicide attacks face reality before it's imposed.
Local options are: Syria (600,000 dead, 13 mil displaced), a balkanized Lebanon and drought as Israel flourishes thanks to technology and enough gas to be the new Saudis.
As for liberals, Israelis wonder when they will give Manhattan back and return to Europe, when UK cedes Scotland and Wales and boycotts China over Tibet and the Uygurs. Jews have a 5,000 year claim while Palestinians are a mix of locals, migrants and ancient Jewish converts.
How about a Solomonic deal with a twist: instead of splitting Israel, create two - like separating siamese twins and adding bionic parts. Add Arab cooperation, Iranian retreat - the Jews they expelled are now the backbone of Israel’s right.
The Al Aksa Mosque and Golden Dome should moved to their new capital and the Temple Mount restored - these are symbols of invasions that dispersed the Jews and claimed religious ownership. The Jews however, never lost their deed. It’s called the Bible.
Technology can make this complex separation work. Israel can bring green to the desert, build out artificial islands in the Mediterranean. Blockchain technology, as in Estonia, can digitize citizenship so that people can safely coexist as citizens of different countries in the same land without infringing on each other rights.
The solution must be new.
A failure ab initio!
1
Both Bibi and Trump are criminals and will do anything to avoid justice. They will sell their families if it comes to that after selling their country already.
Classic GOP playbook, create bigger problem some where else so you can hide your own.
We need to change laws and start putting these people in jail for war crimes, starting with #MoscowMitch
1
Typical Trumpian deal. Leave out the people who are most endangered (Palestinians in Israel & Afghans in Afghanistan) and make a deal with their tormentors. Smooth
4
I am always stunned that the Jewish people, given their history of persecution and exclusion throughout history, are doing the same thing onto others.
I support the right of Israel to exist, but they need to extend the same right to the Palestinian people.
133
The Palestinian leadership rejected peace plans proposed by Clinton and other presidents as well. Their position is simply the destruction of Israel. Hamas and the PLO support terrorism to that end. They reject every peace plan.
8
@ed scott
Doesn't sound like a peace plan. More like a plan to start a war.
11
@ed scott
This "peace deal," or rather, declaration of conditions presented by the victor to the vanquished, *does* provide the right of a state of Palestine to exist. In fact, it rather declares a state of Palestine is in existence.
A "'peace plan" that doesn't include negotiations or discussions with one side? Sounds more like a blueprint for sustained hostilities. This also sounds like another convenient opportunity for Mr. Trump to try and shove the limelight off his impeachment trial.
2
That’s no deal. At best it’s a working plan in need of revision ,which will never happen. One more shiny object to distract trumps base from the reality of his impeachment trial.
1
In this conflict there's one ultimate truth - If the Palestinians put down their guns there would be immediate peace. If the Israelis put down their guns their would be no Israel. However things have changed because Arab nations like Saudia Arabia and Egypt that n the past wanted Israel destroyed and were active in the 1948, 1967, and 1973 wars have come out and said that they view this plan positively, so there's definitely a shift in favor of peace no matter the Palestinians protestations.
31
@Ron Smith Trump put out this deal for one reason; to help Trump. Period
8
@Ron Smith
"In this conflict there's one ultimate truth - If the Palestinians put down their guns there would be immediate peace. If the Israelis put down their guns their would be no Israel. "
This is a tired and trite sentiment. If the Palestinians put down their guns would Israel take down all settlements and retreat, allowing the Palestinians to have their own sovereign state, complete with their own security forces and zero checkpoints?
I think not. So how can their be peace?
Don't even get me started on the Golan Heights.
17
@faust Aha! You proved my point - you doubted whether the Israelis would give the Palestinians what they wanted if they put down their guns but you didn’t even bother to address my other point which is if the Israelis put down the means to defend themselves they would be destroyed because there’s no doubt there, it’s obvious. Don’t know why I bother to post any comments in this paper that support Israel because there are so many haters - I guess at least a few of us have to show support for the only democracy in the Middle East, Israel - where a gay man doesn’t have to worry about being attacked and murdere and where you can actually have an LGBTQ parade.
6
The Palestinians should accept. The lessons of the past all show one thing: when they refuse, which they have done every time except Taba, they lose land. If the HAVE a state, on the other hand, they have a more powerful negotiating position to improve their situation from official status.
It’s always going to be a bad deal for them. But they must accept that truth, or be wiped out. This deal is worse than Clinton’s, and the next will be worse still. Or non existent. It is noble, perhaps, to fight to the death, but not practical.
They should accept and finally acquire a state.
18
@Mr. Little
"The lessons of the past all show one thing: when they refuse...they lose land. It’s always going to be a bad deal for them. But they must accept that truth, or be wiped out. "
Is this comment really a NYT pick? I can't quite decide if it is more reminiscent of Neville Chamberlain or worse...
5
@Mr. Little are you a Palestinian living there that has been usurped? your family? we are not so all entitled to decide what's best for others.
8
@Mr. Little
Except that Netanyahu and Trump aren't proposing them a state, remember?
And apart from that, Trump's policies in the Middle East strongly empower Iran, which supports the Palestinians. As does the rest of the world.
You don't give up a fight to recuperate your land, in such circumstances...
3
The very stable genius's plan seems to have two pillars. First, it gives away other $50 billion of people's money, that of the Arab states. Second, it gives away other people's, Palestinian, land, with access to the most important asset in the region, water, in return for a few acres of Sinai desert. Then, Israel illegally and simultaneously annexes the water-accessible land, thereby dismantling the very structure upon which the "deal" is built.
There are a couple of flaws in this plan. No Arab states have signed commitments, much less funded Trump's giveaway of their money. Second, no Palestinian leader could ever agree to these terms. It's like forcing Illinois farmers at gunpoint to give up their farms in return for a promise that they'll receive a few acres of desert in Nevada, with a promise that Pennsylvania to pay for it, a promise that Pennsylvania hasn't, and never would, agree to.
The only surprise was that no one laughed out loud when the two "leaders," both currently facing charges, presented it.
21
Mr. Thrall is right, there will be platitudes from every elected official if they say anything, to pretend to oppose the Trump policy.
Election time they will all make their pilgrimage to AIPAC to kiss the ring and take the money. Trump and Netanyahu knew that no one would have the character to do what is right. They all are in for the money, that makes voting so difficult, many voters know how corrupt our government really is. International agreements and laws mean nothing if it is about more power, and that is what it is all about, POWER over others and control of resources. It is bipartisan too.
4
@ARL You mean Trump & Netanyahu are in it for the money? Oh, I agree then. You speak in generalizations...Who are they? Simple thinking me thinks.
"Deal"? What "deal"? (Confession: I grow nauseous every time I hear the word used for anything other than a distribution of playing cards).
To imply that an agreement has been reached is a sham. There has been no input from the Palestinians, who I see as the most aggrieved party as their ancestral homeland was wrested from them without their consent. Any proposed solution must have their input before an agreement can be reached. I have read nothing that said they were consulted.
This is nothing but fake theater to distract everyday citizens in the U.S. and Israel from their corrupt politicians.
20
That’s nauseated. Nauseous means you are sickening
It seems to me that this deal makes it clear we are an agent of Israel and subsumes US policy to Israel’s wishes. These days Israel’s main wish is to eliminate the Iranian threat. Perhaps this will result in the Armageddon that precedes the second coming so desired by Trump’s evangelical supporters.
9
@Jeff No we are in thrall to the Republicans, specifically to the bully pulpit of Trump. But let's hope we are tuning out to his bullying and moving to a soon to come 4 years, minus Trump and his acolytes.
1
lol- man, you gotta hand it to groupthink/herd mentality.
the ideas that have been discussed until now have been complete and utter failures. over and over the same theme, and each time- zilch.
trump tries to accept reality on the ground and comes up with a much different approach, and this writer scolds him for abandoning an approach that hasnt worked for decades.
uh huh. brilliant.
same thing with china--every president tries to deal with china, and it only gets worse- trump tries a different approach and gets scolded.
i have zero confidence in these career bureaucrats and the groupthink media. zero.
cant wait to vote for him again....
6
Forgive my ignorance but doesn't Palestine have TWO competing governments: Hamas and PA? How is this deal supposed to solve that problem and foster consensus, unity and peace?
4
@Nick, dealing with the issue without either of them makes their own internal ideological conflict moot and a chance for everyday people to just move past and get a life.
I understand the little spidery links to Jewish settlements in what would be the proposed Palestinian state-minus, but what about the large patches that don't appear to contain an enclave already? What are those giving away?
1
@MJB, but look at the nice industrial zone they get near Gaza. Finally some thoughtful urban planning being introduced beyond just building and firing rockets.
1
"... it asked them to take the bet that, as Mr. Trump promised..." Say no more. My advice to the Palestinian authorities is to follow the fifth rule of negotiation: Never be afraid to walk away.
2
Anyone who thinks Trump can bring peace is mistaken. Sure, for a month, maybe. Maybe even a year or two. But Trump is all about “winning,” and the “winning” he’s about can’t, by his own “logic,” exist without losers.
Conflict is inevitable, as predictable as gravity.
It’s basic, and relatively simple: Conflict is a function of change, of two dimensions of change, it’s magnitude and the speed with which it occurs. The greater the change, or the faster it happens, the more distributive it is—and the greater the violence it generates.
As night will follow day, violence will follow Trump.
4
@David H
You're correct: This "deal" that left out one of the crucial parties (Palestinians) can only end in even more violence and more war in the region. Evertything Trump touches inevitably ends in disaster for others. And Netanyahu is equally or even more unscrupulous than Trump.
It seems funny, certainly amusing, to see news outlets taking this "plan" seriously, when few, if any, have ever been serious, least of all, the Oslo accords. Until the so-called Palestinian, the terrorists, are on board with having peace, it is completely pointless, mere posturing. And until they lose all the funding they get for their terrorism, they will never accept peace. I think the world has had quite enough of the Palestinian lies, fakery, deceit, terrorism, corruption, and evil. They may have lost the support of the Arab nations already, but they still get millions and millions of dollars from elsewhere. That flow of money has to be stopped. Then, the best thing to do is offer them money to leave and be rid of them. They have no ancestral claims, no actual identity, they are no more than a political tool, a club with which to hammer Israel. Without them, the media would have to actually acknowledge what a wonderful country Israel is, a light among nations.
2
@Pank
Unfortunately that Palestinian terror funding comes from the entire Islamic world. Until they stop fundraising money for terrorist, the Palestinians will continue their activities.
2
Who funds Israel?
US funds go to Israel to buy some US weapons systems. Those US defense contractors employ US citizens and pay US taxes. What does Israel get? An enhanced ability to deter/fend-off Iran. Win-win (unless you want Israel wiped off the map, as Iran does).
Israel taxpayers fund everything else in their country.
Where was the Palestinian representative at this announcement? You don't announce a "peace plan" without both sides being present at the announcement. Not a single person in that room believed that this plan has a chance of being implemented. What a cynical and deceptive ploy.
7
Is it any surprise that the proposed map for Palestine looks remarkably like a Republican gerrymandered congressional district?
12
Completely ignoring Palestinian involvement and participation in this "peace plan" make it invalid--just another plot by two world criminals to pad their pockets. The whole "deal" is a sham and a travesty. I'll wait for the future headlines about missiles and rockets flying into Israel. Will that be a "big deal"?
4
You call it disputed territory. It is illegally occupied territory under international law. Your choice of language is critical.
11
This is absolutely outrageous. A "plan" patently unacceptable to the Palestinians and benefitting only two parties to the dispute: a shady president looking to bag Jewish votes in the 2020 election and a shady prime minister hoping to overcome three embarrassing elections. The Palestinians lose the heart of their territory. "Fair and Balanced"? Criminal.
6
After 70+ years of rejecting compromise in favor of perpetrating war and terrorism in their efforts to destroy Israel, did the Arabs really expect Israel to offer yet another ‘Land For No Peace’ concession?
4
We need coverage that starts with what should be outrage over the use of an oppressed people living under an apartheid-like regime as a pawn in yet another political game dictated by a western power. This “peace plan”, in ignoring the already unfair borders in both the UN and Oslo Accords, and sanctioning the illegal Israeli settlements, may very well lead to war. Having just returned from the region, I have seen first hand that Palestinians literally live behind bars and high walls, with no economic or educational prospects, no cultivatable land, and sewage-contaminated water. Outrage is the only moral response to this plan.
7
@Noreen Weiss
“Palestinians literally live behind bars and high walls...”
All bought and paid for by the Arab Palestinians themselves...the consequences of 70+ years of their intransigence, warmongering, and terrorism. Too bad.
4
Where is Trump’s hotel going to be located?
4
@Pilot
Hopefully in Jerusalem! The city is in need of good 5 star hotel.
3
This ‘plan’ should be known as the Sheldon Adelson Protocol or SAP.
4
My wish for the this deal is very simple...May they both lose...both losers to me.
This isn’t a Middle East “Deal” as the Times proclaims in their headline. There is only one side — Israel. A deal takes at least two.
6
Distract, deceive and delude. The Trump M.O.
7
This is not a peace plan but a PR announcement for two crooked politicians who need a feel good story - Trump gets to stand up at the State of the Union speech and say how he has solved the Middle East and Netanyahu gets a story for his election
131
@David And Trump will say it's the greatest peace plan ever and I should get the Nobel prize. (I do get a big check with that, right?)
9
@David He will also boast at the State of the Union how he has been vindicated and is not guilty of the Impeachment Articles since Republicans are putting on a sham trial for the World to watch.
6
@David
And they will get their way because every American politician will support it, they will do nothing else, as always. Israel has no reason to negotiate anything, America and the Europeans fund the military and all the settlements, the US will veto any resolution, not in Israel's favor in the UN.
Trump and Netanyahu know it and so does Israel. We will hear some platitudes from some politicians, and then they all give their blessings, just as they did when the Golan Heights were annexed and the embassy moved to Jerusalem and the building of settlements continues and the taxpayers keep paying.
Neither Trump nor Netanyahu nor Israel risk anything, why compromise, what for?
2
Here is Trump's strategy for everything, because his supporters are all about the fluff - no content needed:
"For election purposes, Mr. Trump does not need a deal, he simply needs the impression that progress is being made."
Same as his request for the Ukraine to announce their investigation into the Bidens - no need to actually do it, just announce it. So transparent.
19
@Kathy Shields yea. he's been working on this deal fro almost 3 years..and it's all for the election.
and no other president has EVER done foreign policy to bolster their election hopes.
uh huh. good point. everyone is a hack....
i bet a zillion dollars if obama came up with something, you'd give it thoughtful consideration. oh never mind...
2
@Kathy Shields
But when it is all over and done and it is before the Congress and Senate all members of the parliament will vote in support of the Trump deal, every single one of them, they will march in lockstep to get paid by AIPAC, as they always do. That is why there is no progress for the Palestinians, the Israelis have no reason to compromise, and they know it.
Jared's youth/inexperience/incompetence are the least of my concerns.
The boy/man is a hardliner as far as Israel is concerned, he has donated money to causes that support the building of MORE settlements and essentially oppose a two state solution.
Were Jared Muslim we would call him an extremist for his fanatical views. He has NO BUSINESS leading these talks.
55
@Oroblah This is not peace...it is a rebuke of fairness & a call for war, just like any other terrorist. Fanatical belief.
2
@Oroblah
No American has any business to lead the talks, the USA is financing the military actions and occupation and the settlements, Israelis have no reason to compromise in any way, it is all paid for by American taxpayers.
One thing one can say for the Trump Mafia, they are not hypocrites, they are in our face here is what I do and then say to us, "and what are you going to do about it? "
2
@Oroblah
And he knows it.
Jared Kushner did not initially disclose on government filings his position as a director of a family foundation that funded projects in West Bank settlements - a ‘potential conflict with his job negotiating Middle East peace’, and the Office of Government Ethics.
Beit El Yeshiva, located in one of the more hard-line ideological settlements, built on private Palestinian land seized by the Israeli government, is a leading beneficiary of the Kushner family donations via American Friends of Beit El Yeshiva.
The president of American Friends of Beit El Yeshiva was (is?) David Friedman, a bankruptcy lawyer, he represented Donald Trump and The Trump Organization. He became Trump’s politically appointed Ambassador to Israel.
Smoking gun, drug deal or business as usual?
4
Bone spurs, net worth, dealmaker, Trump University, massive electoral win, inauguration attendance figures, booming economy for all . . . and on and on and on. Now comes the “Middle East peace plan.” How many more of these shams must we endure?
21
Another bad day for the media (and indiscriminating media consumers), who continue to provide obeisant coverage to Trump, Netanyahu and Kushner on the issue of Middle East peace, inspite of the absence of Palestinian counterparties. Trump knows how to play the media, which would be better off not showing up to such “deal of the century” reveals.
11
Here is what I see when I look at a picture of these two "strongmen" together:
Criminals.
How the world can sanction their making policies at the highest level for anyone defies the imagination.
They will only have their vested interests at heart, no one else's.
20
The only peace plan that will work is the one that Israelis and Palestinians make by working together. All others butt out.
14
One self-serving leader of state, serving himself with the help of another self-serving leader of state, serving himself, and there is nothing anyone can do about it.
Two dictators with the same vision - "What's best for me?"
It's amazing both their egos could fit in the same hallway.
19
@Chicago Guy Only neither one is a dictator, and Netenyahu is a very effective leader for Israel, which is why he won so many elections. Mind your own business.
1
@Pank
What do you call someone who runs a country, but has never once had the support of the majority, and is above the law?
This is everyone's business! What's yours? Besides defending the indefensible?
3
I have now joined the BDS Movement. When governments fail to act, the people must act.
19
I fail to understand how a plan which will permanently legitimize the illegal Israeli settlements on the West Bank in clear violation of International Law, is any different from Putin’s land grab in the Crimea. Netanyahu and Trump ignore any laws that don’t benefit them personally. Corrupt and lawless men both of them.
46
@Susan
No one gave Trump the right to rule by decree to give to Israel something that does not belong to him to give in the first place either.
He is a criminal with delusions of grandeur.
15
@ARL It is obvious Israel is depending on our military support to protect them in their illegal land grab. That makes us, America, complicit in the crime.
6
Ahem ... a “peace plan” put together by the son-in-law of Trump (what’s about Hunter Biden?) that affects our national security, and aside from the fact that it is grossly unfair to the Palestinians, has nothing to do with peace. It is a diversion for two world leaders who both are seeking approval from their bases during investigations into their corrupt activities that border on treason as they put their personal political ambitions before any concern for their countries. Both these guys should be removed from power in the international scheme of things.
23
@Mountain Dragonfly kushner got an important administrative job with no prior experience...just like Hunter Biden. barr is blocking any investigation in this country of corruption by the president & his advisers. What is the difference in the two cases? one is son in law of president not son of Vice President.
4
@Nostradamus Said So
The difference is that Jared Kushner -- unlike Hunter Biden -- is not receiving a salary.
"with rare self-discipline, he [Trump] never mentioned the word impeachment."
rare self-disipline?
Could it be that his defense for withholding aid is based on his being so very, very, very concerned with corruption, and yet here he is hosting, applauding and doing deals with a leader indicted on corruption charges, after a two-year investigation, and Israel is still getting billions in aid. No whistle blower, no one overheard the personal benefit foreign policy deal that he made.
14
A connecting tunnel isn’t a result of “gerrymandering” it’s the result of an obvious necessity to have the territory of a Palestinian state connected.
3
Doubling the Palestinian territory is a brave move. When you add the East Jerusalem capital, 50 billion in investment, a connecting tunnel, a complete demilitarization of the zone, and no “pay to slay” you have a big win. Very imaginative!
Make Palestine Great Again!
1
@Charlie
They had their land stolen and home bulldozed. And they get the worst land with poor water access.
Kinda like how we've treated indigenous Americans.
7
@Stealth Exactly. The map reminded me of the map of the Native American reservations and all that they imply.
At least they’re offering a two state solution. The Palestinians only want a one state solution.
7
This isn’t a 2 state solution at all. It’s just the impression of 2 states, Netanyahu himself calls it a “State-minus”. A state without a military. It would have to rely on the Israeli military for protection and security. Essentially they would just be Israel’s vassal state with no authority.
54
@T. Varadaraj With 1/2 million settlers in situ one state is the only solution. The 2 state idea has been dead in the water as a practical matter for decades. It's back to basics, 1 person 1 vote. Negotiations should be about the structure of such a state and how to guarantee that one community does not dominate the other and how each can have lived self determination.
Trump's mad 'deal' with the Israelis is notable only as the end point of the US as a phony mediator. It's been clear since Bush snr that there is no political possibility for the US elite to deliver anything that's sustainable as a peace deal so this is the end of the line for those delusions. But elsewhere there is potential, young people in the US are already way ahead of their parents on this stuff, and I expect young Israelis and Palestinians aren't far behind.
@T. Varadaraj
They are offering a reservation [Palestine]masquerading as state within the state of Israel. Look at how their land is cut up, pock marked by settlements, resources controlled by Israel, and surrounded on by Israel.
It's like having a house in the middle of someone else's field with no right of access to and from the house, not even any control over airspace or port access.
Even if the plan were viable for the Palestinians on some levels, no one will invest in a country whose borders can be closed on a whim by a third party. The plan controls the Palestinians physically and economically and their right to evolve autonomously. It's a slap in the face.
1
Whatever Israel does to the Palestinians, the Arab world blames on us as Tel Aviv's protector.
That's how we have ended up in the conflict with the Arab and Muslim world.
Is it worth spending several trillion dollars on waging the conflict that could be resolved just with the love, tolerance, coexistence and sharing of the ancestral land that both sides rightfully claim as theirs.
8
Underscoring how frequent policy decisions are influenced by politics, underscoring how dumb this impeachment is.
1
It was only a shiny distraction any way
Does Trump really believe that the human rights are on sale and that the Palestinians might sell them?
That's the very definition of insanity.
7
The two areas on the map in southern Israel to be connected by a tunnel remind me of Indian reservations in the southwest USA. Apparently most of the Israelis living there are Arabs. What kind of citizenship will these people have? Will they have to accept Palestinian citizenship or will they have to move to stay in Israel? It looks to me that the so-called win-win here is that Israel will get what it wants in territorial terms while potentially throwing unwanted non-Jewish citizens under the bus.
7
Looking at the revised map, I see divide and conquer as the prime objective.
9
The proposed non-contiguous Palestinian state is ridiculous. Is there any non-contiguous state anywhere in the world?
Muster some courage and tell West Bank Palestinians that they can forget about an independent state on the West Bank. They had their chance. They didn't take it. That ship has sailed. The region's demographics have changed.
The West Bank should be incorporated into Israel-proper. West Bankers would get full Israeli citizenship and rights. Palestinians who lost land, money or businesses should get Just Compensation as under the legal Doctrine of Eminent Domain. Forget about "right of return". People get cash instead. You want something back, take your cash and buy it back if it's available.
West Bank Palestinians can get some autonomy as do French Canadians in Quebec. And that's it. Case closed.
With the huge influx of Jews since 1948 the region originally allotted for Jews is too small to support a viable state for Jews much less two states.
At the same time, the UN should declare Gaza an independent state whether Gaza wants it or not. Israel vacated Gaza years ago. Egypt doesn't want Gaza back. Right now Gaza is a big nothing. Independence is the only viable outcome. There's your Palestinian State. Gaza!
2
Take a look at Michigan on a map.
3
@MIKEinNYC
Croatia is divided in two by a small corridor that gives Bosnia access to the ocean.
Angola has a province that is non-contiguous, separate from the main body of the nation by Democratic Republic of the Congo.
Brunei is cut in two.
Arguably the UK has Northern Ireland as a non-contiguous portion.
It happens.
3
@MIKEinNYC The USA is a non-contiguous nation state.
3
Peace is a messy business it always has been and always will be. This plan was dead on arrival because it didn't include the Palestinians who live there. Lets keep in mind that the Israelis are the minority here and are trying to impose their will on the majority. This type of governance has never worked it angers the majority and endangers the minority. Jimmy Carter and Barack Obama tried hard to bring peace to the region but until the two parties realize that they need to live together and work together there will never be peace here. Maybe its up to the new generations, just as its up to them here to lead the way. Clearly, the old generation doesn't care enough to take a step back and swallow some pride to do the right thing.
4
This is a joke. Two military power houses decided to take lands from Palestinian territory. It proves no justice existed in the international arena. Who would want to argue with US and Israel on Palestinian behalf?
And how could this be a Peace Plan with the directly involved party absent in the discussion of this peace plan?
US is a proud and honorable nation. How would you accept this when other nations are doing the same to you one day?
2
@Usok US once was a proud & honorable nation. No longer. We have turned our backs on our true allies & are palling around with dictators & authoritarians & indicted corrupt prime ministers (who can't form a true government).
1
A bright shiny useless diversion. The Silence of the Scams.
Seriously.
7
So, let's just look at the 50 billion dollar part of this sham "deal" whose non-ratification does not exist in Trump's self-serving PR:
Trump--dead center amidst his impeachment trial--touts this as FINALLY achieving peace in Israel, describing the Palestinian "win" (which Palestinians oppose) as massive funds for developing Gaza and other Palestinian territory.
In other words: Real estate development--framed as a peace deal (in reality barely a plan), hatched by KUSHNER and TRUMP, and supposedly funded by Saudi Arabia (it just gets better and better, doesn't it?) Does Netanyahu have a part in this "take"?
One huge, venal profit scheme for himself and others dressed up as a peace plan for Israel.
9
What does this "plan" remind me of? Treaties of the 19th Century creating reservations for Native Americans on undesirable land (at least at the time, before oil was discovered) in the American West? A plan to be enforced by power, or peddled by dollars, not intended to appeal to the nominal beneficiaries, but to the political interests of its creators and sponsors? Trump is right; no American president before him has been cynical enough to try such a naked ploy.
8
Meanwhile, the talking heads on the TV are speculating on whether the other guy with a big stake in the normalization of corruption will demand witnesses at the impeachment trial.
Trump, Kushner, and Netanyahu have a big interest in seeing their corrupt plans succeed. John Roberts has a big stake in seeing that all laws banning corruption are deemed unconstitutional. Which one's worse?
2
Assuming it was a possibility prior, the assassination of Rabin signaled the death knell of the ever dubious two-state solution. The extremists on both sides have never been in favor of it. The right wing Zionists have always desired expansion, and the arrival of immigrants from Eastern Europe turned it into a zealous need. On the other side, The Nakba is not some small event in the Palestinian mind that can be brushed under the carpet and simply forgotten. Imagine your family had been swept from its home. Would a grudge linger? Jews harbored the idea of return for 2000 years, should the Palestinians simply walk away?
Right wing thinking today is that only through vanquishing Palestinian aspirations completely - which is to say, winning the ongoing conflict unconditionally - can peace be achieved. Once Palestinians accept they have lost, they might come to the table and beg for scraps. It should be obvious that conflict has succeeded time and again only to diminish their position, and that 70 years on the rest of the Arab world has little interest in elevating their cause. They are too busy watching their own countries being demolished.
This is not a peace plan so much as the imposition of conditions by a victor on the vanquished. It manifests the age old maxim that might is right. Forget reciprocity, the conservative view is based on the concept of duality, of winners and losers. This so-called peace plan is a brazen recognition that Israel is the victor.
3
Fascism is fascism. Neither of these two leaders want the Palestinians to have the right to their past private property. Nor do they want the Palestinians to have the right to vote. What a bizarre situation. Having a meeting discussing the land rights for a group of people without inviting that group of people to the meeting. Israel has the right to exist in a peaceful manner but this plan does not address the third party that is of concern. Imagine if this occurred to the Israelis in foreign countries in the future where that foreign country simply meet with a strong foreign power like Russia that simply takes all of private property of all Jewish residents, do not allow Jewish residents to vote , and then does not invite them to a meeting to discuss their future existence. There is a more diplomatic approach that would be successful.
So in five years when looking back on this issue Trump and Netanyahu had a meeting where they dictated policy.
3
The US has a solid track record of diplomacy and democracy building in the region, all done without spending a dime of its taxpayers money. This Peace Plan is solidly built on that proven record, by two masters of local and international diplomacy. A resounding success already and a virtual blueprint on how conflict on the world’s most sensitive regions should be dealt with. Bravo!
/sarcasm off
3
who are these voters that don't care about the practical implementability of a proposal?
Is a proposal just an incumbent's version of a campaign promise?
The corrupt intent of Trump and Netanyahu aside, Israel should learn a lesson from their unilateral withdrawal from Gaza that had made the situation worse for both them and and the Palestinians.
Any attempt to create a permanent solution for the conflict that will not be negotiated and accepted by both sides , and by an objective American leadership, is doomed to fail.
3
Since Oslo, the Palestinians have not made a single statement or gesture that demonstrated willingness to even talk with Israelis much less to negotiate with them.
When will the world’s politicians and media hold them accountable for something?
3
One look at the proposed map provided by the Administration is all that needs to be seen to understand the chances of success.
3
This is just another example of Trump attempting to play to a single-issue constituency like his recent Roe v. Wade grandstanding. The issue doesn't matter to him, just a cynical calculation of how many votes it will attract.
It's a game plan that can and does work when the electorate doesn't bother to get up off the sofa and dive a little deeper into a multi-issue, complicated world. Even scratching just below the surface exposes Trump as an incompetent leader with dangerous, self-serving motives.
If we're to act as responsible, informed citizens in a democracy, we need to put forth more effort.
4
A "deal" quite similar to the one American settlers gave to Native Americans while using similar "negotiation" tactics. It's the kind of deal Trump is known for making. The only kind he's known for making.
7
Why is there no mention of US apocalyptic evangelicals, who constitute a large part of Trump's base and are likely the main reason he's pushing this scheme through?
11
Palestinians walked from good ‘deals’ - starting with the original U.N. PartItion in 1948. They could have been building a viable country in all this time, instead they allowed their leaders (Arafat among them) to make them pawns of their larger wealthy Arab brothers like Saudi Arabia who have now turned their backs on them.
I don’t think looking back is helpful but sometimes it helps clarify the situation. Perhaps they should make a counter offer here. Trump wants a ‘win’. He doesn’t care about anyone outside himself - including the Israelis. If the Palestinian leaders can make him look good, they might finally get a start of a country.
3
@Maxi
That was a good deal in 1948 for the Palestinians? The land was taken from them and given to others. The Palestinian people were driven off the homeland that belonged to them, it did not belong to the British to give away. What was good for the Palestinians in that deal?
Trump never gives, he only takes, to believe he gives is pie in the sky.
6
@Maxi
That was a good deal in 1948 for the Palestinians? The land was taken from them and given to others. The Palestinian people were driven off the homeland that belonged to them, it did not belong to the British to give away. What was good for the Palestinians in that deal?
1
When I was a tourist in Israel a few years ago and discussed the Israeli-Palestinian conflict with Israelis, they told me that what is going to happen, sooner or later, is that Israeli settlements will continue to grow and that eventually Israel will (as it has already been doing), build a meandering fence around the isolated pieces of Palestinian territory and simply declare the settlement pieces part of Israel proper in a fait accompli.
If the Palestinians continue to insist on Jerusalem as their capital and the "Right of Return," there will never be a negotiated agreement with Israel, and the Palestinians will be left with the fait accompli described above.
5
@ALB Exactly. That is what happens in reality
This plan was always a PR stunt for the two elections. This will bring peace to the region in the same manner that Trumps "historic" North Korea deal, the one were Trump claimed he had "solved' the issue, has brought a North Korea free of nuclear weapons. Not a single nuke has been dismantled, no inspectors on the ground, no ongoing talks. In other words, nothing accomplished. Trump will boast of his peace plan at his rallies, he will boast of his diplomatic skills, but until he gets the Palestinians to the table this plan is as valuable as Trump Tower Moscow.
14
Kushner has pre-arranged $50 billionth finance the buy-out of Palestinian legal and human rights.
Yes Israel gets a green light to move forward with its illegal colonization project, but the "Deal of the Century" consists mainly of Saudi Arabia (the main source of the funds) getting US nuclear technology transfer and US maximum pressures on Iran in return for the Trump real estate empire getting a lifeline by means of Saudi debt forgiveness.
20
@Greg
What makes you think that the US will not be on the hook for guaranteeing the financing of this trump real estate deal.
3
This is a peace plan like the World Series is a championship where one team isn't invited to participate. Trump and Netanyahu, the two abject criminals, are dancing on the ceiling claiming victory; meanwhile the Middle East has never been more perilous. This is a disaster on myriad levels.
31
@H. Clark It's so obvious that this is no victory that only Trump and Netanyahu don't realize they are falling on their heads.
2
This is not a real deal or even the blueprint/roadmap to a deal. This is clear by the fact that not a single Palestinian has been involved or has said a nice word about it. Basic rule of any deal as Mr Trump knows or should know is that both sides must agree the starting point, the process and have an objective in mind. This so called deal probably suits Israel but even more importantly suits both Trump and Netanyahu as a PR stunt to obscure and divert the public away from both men's obvious problems. It will be forgotten in six months and in 12 months a new peace process may start!
7
Mr. Trump, the disrupter, has made it clear he does not believe that approach would work.
Is that what what he is being called now "the disrupter"? How charming.
2
I see two criminals trying to escalate the smoke and mirrors that have kept them in control to this point and a large audience with jaws agape at the "magic" that they propose.
20
What Trump and Kushner don't get, with their 50 billion offer as they carve up Palestine, is that there are people in the world who don't care about money as much as they care about their actual land and water, their homes, their history, their quality of life, their right to self-governance, their freedom and their honor. This real-estate "deal of the century" is but a paltry excuse for a genuine resolution of centuries of conflict.
19
@Guillemot Trump and his people really do believe they can buy anyone and anything, because they themselves can be bought and frequently are.
7
Looking at the map and the borders redrawn by Trump, Netanyahu and Kushner for this peace deal reminds me of the gerrymandering that happens here in the US. Although, Democrats as well as Republicans have redrawn the electoral maps in the past and each party tries to draw the map in their favor, right now the Republicans have been the worst. One just has to look at the present electoral maps that was drawn by the Republicans, they look just as ragged as does the recommended Israeli-Palestinian border and that should come to no one as a surprise for just look who drew those borders.
13
The solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is well-known, is acceptable to the West and the to rest of the world, is consistent with past official US foreign policy, is consistent with UN Resolutions and international law, is consistent with the principles laid out by the UN Quartet, and is consistent with the proposal put forward by the Arab League.
It is what the world demands and what Israel refuses to accept: 2 viable states; 1967 boundaries with mutually agreed land swaps, right of return negotiated using both (limited) property and (fair) compensation.
It comes down to what Zionist extremists want versus what the rest of the world needs.
21
@Greg
You would be surprised to know that your solution involves Israel committing suicide- sorry that ship has sailed- 75 years after the liberation of concentration camps you just don't get it- if that is extremism then let it flow like a might stream.
@Jeffrey
The ship of fools, with no future for the State of Israel.
1
Far from being a peace plan for the Middle East, it is rather a formal burial of the two-state solution plan approved by the Camp Dabid and the Oslo efforts. It is also a distraction plan for Trump and Netanuahu currently facing the job crisis.
12
There is a clear distinction between an Israeli wish list and a serious peace plan.
I wish the best for all parties in Palestine. This publicity stunt does not offer that.
8
This "deal" is typical of real estate developer thinking and looks more like gentrification than negotiation. Real estate developers never want to deal with the "little people" living there. It'll just be great for them, they tell residents. And of course, the carrot is that money will flow in, which if it comes, destroys the neighborhood feel, or else the people living there have to move out.
16
The history of American peace plans is one of tragedy for those being "pacified." One need only to look at the treaties made with native peoples. In my time, there was "pacification" in Viet Nam. Boy, did we pacify them......
There is no way to call this new deal as anything other than what it is: subjugation of a less-powerful people by a more-powerful. It will surely bring neither peace nor prosperity for either side. True peace requires acceptance of another's right to be, which this deal does not.
34
@OldPadre
The dictator tramples on international, it tops his Ukraine extortion for his personal benefit. He is piling more problems on the ME as if that is not enough, yes, he will add Iran to it all too. The nation should get ready for a rough ride, we do have a criminal head of state.
3
@OldPadre
The dictator tramples on international law, it tops his Ukraine extortion for his personal benefit. He is piling more problems on the ME as if that is not enough, yes, he will add Iran to it all too. The nation should get ready for a rough ride, we do have a criminal head of state.
2
@OldPadre
The dictator tramples on international law, it tops his Ukraine extortion for his personal benefit. He is piling more problems on the ME as if there are not enough, yes, he will add Iran to it all too. The nation should get ready for a rough ride, we do have a criminal head of state.
2
I'm not a fan of Trump. But I don't believe in giving people false hope. There's currently NO "Middle East Peace Process." It is & has been a fraud. We all know that. So let's stop the hypocrisy. Last time I checked, the founding document of the PLO included a prime commitment to the elimination of the "Zionist entity." The Palestinians are why we are here at this juncture - not Israeli settlements or anything like that. The Palestinians will never accept Israel - period. They refuse to recognize it as a Jewish state but insist that any Palestine nation be Islamic. Our European allies have kept this farce going for decades by cowardly succumbing to Arab demands. Who can forget how they consistently released PLO murderers & terrorists from prison whenever threatened? How Germany released the Munich Olympic murderers it had arrested when the PLO kidnapped some Germans? And how the French paid off the PLO not to commit terrorist attacks in France? At this point what the Palestinians want is immaterial. Peace will only come when the Sunni Arab states tell the Palestinians the jig is up & stop supporting them. Let Jordan take a bigger role in this - it was Jordan that lost the West Bank in 1967 when it entered the war. The old "borders of 1967" were never borders - just armistice lines from 1949. They change. The Palestinians will have to make major concessions if they want peace. If they don't then one day they will find themselves on the other side of the Jordan River.
22
@Bill Brown
So why is it only the Palestinians who must make major concessions? You have a VERY selective grasp of history in your narrative, one that completely ignores everything except the carefully tailored Israeli official excuses for their ongoing subjugation of Palestinian peoples. This sort of shameful reimagining of reality is pretty typical of US policy.
14
Finally an opinion of the situation I totally agree with. The history of the world includes countries formed and countries lost, borders changed by war and the "losing" side accepting a new reality. I am a never Trumper but it is time for the Palestinians to a accept reality that was formed in 1949. They are the last remnants of WWII refugees who refuse to believe they lost the war. Move on.
26
@Aunt Amy But you have made a fundamental error in your statement that the war is over. Clearly, it is not. How about another narrative? A small peace-loving native population is marginalized and discriminated against by a mainly foreign oppressor (overwhelmingly recent immigrants from another continent) and the local population is disenfranchised and herded onto a sliver of land that is economically nonviable and they don't accept it, but fight for their former homeland for generations. Not a bad story, noble almost. That is not reality either and neither is yours but you can see how both stories are attractive and believable. The fact is the resolution is difficult, if not impossible, until there is a cessation of violence. That is the tragic legacy of the PLO and the early zionists as well, violence. Nothing will get resolved until there is peace without oppression. Good luck.
3
How can this be a peace plan if the Palestinians were not invited to the table? This is just another con job from Trump.
38
@susan They definitely were invited to the table. Repeatedly. By the Obama administration and then by this one. They refused. Just like they refused the two state solution, including Jerusalem and a lot more territory than this plan, not one, not twice, but three times President Clinton's admin.
Two desperate men refuse to give up power. Their corruption is so invasive that it spews from their mouths, leers from their eyes, seeps from every pore of their bodies. They are dictators of diminishing democracies. But right along side them are those who insist on supporting them, those who are of the same ilk, who care less of the plight of those who have no say in their deserved rights. We here watch in disgust while McConnell “scrambles” to hide from the American people the truth. Before our eyes we watch obstruction of justice with a Chief Justice presiding. I do not live in Israel so I can not be certain of what I write, but I would posit that too many Israelis also experience such complete betrayal of what is civil, decent, and good.
25
President of division seeks "peace" amongst the long divided.
10
Ironically, Trump isn't capable of doing long division.
1
The response from the Palestinians should be kept short and simple, stating:
"The human and legal rights of the Palestinian people are not for sale."
32
@Greg What "legal" rights do the Palestinians have?
@Greg Then why do the Palestinian people keep selling them to Fatah and Hamas? Israel and US and the UN and the Europeans and Russians have offered them statehood and independence four times since 1948. Their leaders refused, but milk the refugees and massive billions in aid to enrich themselves. Rebel guerilla leader Yassir Arafat died a wildly wealthy man, maybe a billionaire. How exactly? And what's not for sale again?
@abraham kleinman
It is quite telling that you do not ask about their human rights.
As for the legal rights, I refer to international law, specifically the Fourth Geneva Convention.
2
This makes my heart and brain sick. I see a Coalition of Corruption forming across the planet, and it does not bode well for us.
43
All readers are old enough to remember when presentation of the "peace plan" was delayed so as not to interfere with an Israeli election. That (bogus) excuse was taken as a sign that the "plan" would present Israel with some tough love. The current version is so transparently intended to affect elections in both countries that any claim to take it seriously can be discarded without further comment. Indeed, the many delays in publishing it seem now to have stemmed from the desire to time it to Trump's and Netanyahu's electoral advantage. The "plan" thus takes its rightful place with Trump's Mexican-built wall, "infrastructure",eliminating the deficit, paying off the national debt - and the "painful choices" adumbrated and never made by Netanyahu.
17
"Mr. Trump has embraced a plan that essentially dismantles 60 years of bipartisan support for a negotiated process between Israelis and Palestinians
60 Years. The 1967 Six Day war happened in 1967, only 52 and 1/2 years ago.
From 1960 thru 1967, the were no Palestinians living in the West Bank Of Jordan. The people living there were Jordanian citizens.
9
@MenachemP And the plans that are based on the '67 lines seem to assume that there was "peace" before '67. Of course, this was not the case, so why should it work now?
4
Once again Trump legitimizes ugly and ancient practices of conquest and subjugation of oppressed peoples. He smiled on Putin’s land grab in Crimea and now beams at Israeli consolidation of occupied territories. While the details still matter, the major thrust of this administration is that power is the only important thing. If we want something, like Greenland, we should be able to get it.
None of this is new in human history. We have been fighting each other for millennia over scraps of land and access to resources. But with the globe shrinking every day and facing multiple existential threats—a warming planet, metastasizing viruses, chronic wars—the breakdown of international systems of cooperation bodes ill.
People who gained wisdom in the catastrophe of world war set up the post-war framework to guard against the very forces we see on the march today. Trump is gleefully tossing all that aside merely to renew his lease on the White House. There is something structurally and deeply wrong with a system of government that gives one person that power.
27
The Name of The Rose. Thanks for pointing out exactly what this is. Impeachment and Incarceration distraction. They both should be in jail.
20
The ultimate effect of this ludicrous "plan" will be to vastly increase the recruiting power of ISIS and their supporters, exacerbating the endless Middle East wars, killing more Americans, Arabs, Persians and Israelis, and helping no one except the arms manufacturers.
12
I enjoyed the sensible map proposal, but where's the Adelson-Kushner-trump tower placed?
14
The spookiest aspect of President Trump's decision making is that one of the stars he has hitched his wagon to is fellow demagogue Benjamin Netanyahu. Brokering a lasting peace between Israel and Palestine is a bit more complicated than getting foot-dragging contractors to repair a Central Park ice skating rink.
12
The deal sounds like a bunch of kids divided the stolen candy and chocolate bars.
22
Past and present administrations have it all wrong and will continue to fail. The Palestinians will be happy only after Israel is out of the region and the Palestines take back their land. The only difference between then and now is that support for the Palestines from the Arab nations no longer exist, so perhaps there is a slim chance that Palestines will "sell" their land to the Israelis, making it a business transaction (real estate). We shall see.
1
@3Rs
sounds like everything is for sale, even a homeland, could we add the USA to the list too? What is Trump willing to pay for the land and who would pay, he surely would not, he never pays his bills.
5
Only absolutely crazy person would create and endorse this plan.
18
@Kenan Porobic If previous plans were not "Crazy" why were they utterly rejected by the Palestinians time and time again. Were they "crazy" in rejecting them?
1
@abraham kleinman
Crazy is to prevent the refugees that fled the war-torn areas during the conflict to save their lives and families from returning back to their homes after the situation normalized and the fighting ended.
@Kenan Porobic
Isn't it crazy to permit the "enemy" to return without a binding peace treaty which has still not been achieved. What about the 950,000 Jews who were exiled from the Arab countries after the 1948 war? They have all been resettled in Israel and elsewhere but the 1948 Arabs and their future generations were placed in camps where they have continue to languish to this day and used as a bargaining chip.
“There were years of talks, stalemates, ‘road maps to peace,’ collapsed negotiations and intifadas.”
There was even a slain Israeli Prime Minister, whose death can quite plausibly be traced to highly specific incitement, voiced by the man who would become King Bibi.
The only peace that can be achieved absent diplomacy, is that which comes after exterminating ones’ enemies.
4
This is not a peace plan or a peace proposal. I am very pro-Israel- but I am also pro-Palestinian. A deal is something that both parties can agree to. This offers nothing but an insulting bribe to the Palestinians.
This is a sick joke by two leaders who are little more than traitors to their own countries.
35
Famous last words before they were escorted to prison.
20
"With rare self-discipline, [Trump] never mentioned the word impeachment" in revealing his Mideast peace plan.
That's not the only self-discipline Trump exercised. Apparently, he did not condition his pro-Israel peace plan on Netanyahu launching an investigation of the Bidens. (Or at least he was disciplined enough this time not to say so publicly)
6
Why is Trump deciding what happens to thousands of Palestinians on the other side of the world who have had their lands taken away by Jewish settlers? What makes it ok to now make this permanent, and squeeze the Palestinians into tiny pieces of uninhabitable land that aren’t even connected?
And how is this a “deal”? A deal implies agreement by both parties, it’s not a deal when it’s decided by one side and benefits only that one side; it’s a forcible imposition then.
And how can the world watch by and say yes let’s allow this to happen, we are tired and bored of watching this on the news year after year - that’s essentially what most of the commentators are saying here, not stopping to think what this really means for the poor Palestinians. Shocking that this is coming in the same week as the Auschwitz anniversary when people mouthed “never again” - except that it is happening again, only the targeted group is now Palestinians.
27
The issue is much larger and more important than the article and comments portray.
The critical issue is whether or not the peoples of the world value living in a rules-based society. Do we support the ideas of our forefathers who established those rules; the United Nations Charter, the Geneva Conventions, international law, the WTO rules, etc.
If we allow these rules to be ignored, we are condemned to chaos, bloodshed, and bankruptcy.
11
Two leaders accused of high crimes, misdemeanours, corruption and bribery, decide to redraw the map of Palestine, then they call it the Deal of the Century, universally dismissed as the Steal of the Century.
What a waste of time and tax-payer money. I wonder how many First Class trips Trump's slumlord son-in-law, and his entourage, made to conjure up such a 'deal'.
If you want to 'give peace a chance' you have to remove extremists from any future negotiations.
37
@Hamid Varzi well said Sir
5
On October, 11, 1995, right before Rabin was murdered, I published in my weekly column in “Yedioth Ahronoth” an article headlined “Too Small for History”. In it I stated that given the uniquely advantageous terms of both the global and regional situations for achieving a stable settlement, the presently signed and celebrated “Oslo B” agreement was actually a missed opportunity of historical proportions. I emphasized that “Rabin and Peres seem to have decided that a bold initiative requiring settlements evictions and the drawing of permanent borders” is beyond their political abilities and, in parallel, the Palestinians asininely still believe and act as if time is on their side, as if Israel's power will melt away and it's nationalistic ambitions will be thwarted by international pressure.
I forecasted that it’s a matter of “few years” before an intensive armed conflict will erupt in which Israel will crash the Palestinians and will go on to establish the occupation (including gradual transfer and annexations) as the “Permanent Solution” -- the “Second Intifada” started in September 2000. And here we are now, on the “Deal of the Century” road -- from United Jerusalem to Greater Israel.
Indeed, "A great deal for Israel" -- for Netanyahu's Israel and for Netanyahu the defendant, and will get better and better for them.
3
@Meir Stieglitz
and most likely much worse for the people in the region and maybe much more. The world will be lucky if the ME is only imploding but Israel can be a part of it too. Who knows how the violence will end.
2
@Meir Stieglitz
and most likely much worse for the people in the region and maybe much more. The world will be lucky if the ME is only imploding but Israel can be a part of it too. Who knows how the violence will turn.
@Meir Stieglitz
and most likely much worse for the people in the region and maybe much more. The world will be lucky if the ME is imploding but Israel can be a part of it too. Who knows how the violence will turn.
1
I propose creating one non-sectarian country and giving each adult the right to vote.
10
Which then will be run by Hamas I suppose?
Trump must be impeached for committing the treason - the crime of betraying his country for monetary reasons. The situation fits this description.
The incumbent has the real estate holdings in the Middle East and America that depend on income received by spending of the Middle-eastern royalties - a bunch of kings, princes, emirs and sheiks.
Those are exactly the same people whose financial donations have created the extremely radical Wahhabism and the Al Qaeda.
Why those royalties would initially need them? Because they were the dictators oppressing the local population and looting the national oil reserves.
However, those individuals need the White House for the additional military support in the case of popular uprising like the Arab Spring was.
By providing it Trump is turning the local population against both those local tyrants and the USA. That’s why those terrorist organizations have an easy task of finding and recruiting the suicidal bombers.
It means president Trump has betrayed the national interests for the sake of personal monetary gains.
That’s why none of those local tyrants dared to object Trump “peace plan” although it’s insulting and disparaging toward the Palestinian people, and by extension to the Arab and Muslim world.
If we care about America we must defeat this treasonous plan that betrayed the foreign policy of Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Reagan and Bush who served in the US armed forces.
3
Two criminals concocted this ruse to help them, not the middle east problem. Why anyone would believe a word coming from either of these two “leaders” is a question history will wrestle with for ever.
11
If those two isolated areas were shtetls, what would the world say then?
2
Get ready for a phenomenal peace agreement with North Korea, brokered by the world's most powerful leader.
3
The proposed map looks a lot like a Republican gerrymandered House District. It was, of course, drawn by two men who know that their political lives are coming to a serious bad end, so there is that.
6
The real question is why these two dangerous criminals are still in office? Maybe the real danger is people that support them.
17
@Anxious
Both are so evil and so are the people surrounding them and applaud them.
1
Is this the best Jared can do? I know we gave him a couple years to make Peace In The Middle East, but this seems a wee bit slipshod.
This only shows how little Trump knows, or cares, about such things, but it sounds good for him. Good until you look at the irritation it is causing but denying those living in the area any say whatsoever for 4 or more years.
Unfortunately for peace, I have a feeling those affected will not remain silent for 4 years.
4
1938 - Germany, Britain, France, and Italy all meet in Munich to discuss German expansion into Czechoslovakia The Czechs are not invited to the summit. This "plan" is essentially the same thing.
15
“The Arab Heads of State have agreed to unite their political efforts at the international and diplomatic level to eliminate the effects of the aggression and to ensure the withdrawal of the aggressive Israeli forces from the Arab lands which have been occupied since the aggression of 5 June. This will be done within the framework of the main principles by which the Arab States abide, namely, no peace with Israel, no recognition of Israel, no negotiations with it, and insistence on the rights of the Palestinian people in their own country.”
From the text of the Khartoum Resolution that was issued on 9/1/1967 by eight Arab Heads of State in the aftermath of the Six-Day War.
"… no peace with Israel, no recognition of Israel, no negotiations with it …."
The more things change, the more they don’t.
8
@A. Stanton
Except that Egypt, Jordan, and Lebanon have since negotiated with Israel, recognized Israel, and made peace with Israel. However, they still insist on the rights of the Palestinian people in their own country.
This plan can succeed if 3 factors come together: (1) Egypt and Jordan support the plan. (2) Saudi Arabia supports the plan and (3) Europe seeing that these Arab states support the plan begin to support the plan. Keep in mind that the palestinians have rejected all prior peace plans except the one calling for the destruction of Israel. Keep in mind that the Palestinians have encouraged and rewarded terrorists who have wrought carnage to Israel.
This plan also supports giving the Palestinians billions in aid and lifting the living standard of the Palestinians.
5
@Ann N
Why on earth would Egypt, Jordan, and Saudi Arabia support it?
The headline should read "A Deal That IS DEAD ON ARRIVAL Has Two Elections, Rather Than Mideast Peace, as Its Focus"
Nobody in their right mind on the Palestinian side would agree to a "deal" such as the one Jared has cooked up (and I strongly support the people of Israel).
I guess the very wonderful negotiating skills of Donald Trump and his equally competent son-in-law are on full display.
5
EVERY politician performs their official acts with an eye to enhance their own political standing. In that regard, Trump and Netanyahu are acting like every other politician does and would.
What is important to the people, is the character of their action, not their selfish purposes for doing it.
The character of this announced position by Trump is wonderful. The Palestinians have always rejected as grossly inadequate every concession Israel has ever made under pressure from past presidents of both parties. Nothing less that the elimination of Israel will ever satisfy the Palestinians.
At least now, for all his many faults, we have a president who is an ally of Israel. That unity of position of American and Israeli leadership sends a powerful message to Palestinians that might move the Palestinians to a more realistic attitude that they will get something only by truly compromising. It might finally move them to recognize the truth that they lost the war 53 years ago.
4
60 years might, for some, seem the length of their lifetime. Perhaps everyone just has to – eventually – give up, and to submit to what is wanted by those who have high and earthly positions, wherever they might be heard and whatever happens to be listened for –
Israel rules, and Palestine shall never.
There will be an Israel and a Palestine in my mind, though I do never what to go to either of the places.
1
This is not a peace deal, it is an outline for Israel to unilaterally impose its will once and for all and eliminate Palestine as a viable entity. At its core, this is another "smoke and mirrors" project in which Trump overpromises and underperforms - except that he and his family always seem to get paid off in some manner.
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@Jason Shapiro
Of course. It is absolutely about a victor unilaterally imposing its will on the vanquished. That's typically how wars work.
The reality is that the Palestinians have been vanquished for generations. What's been happening since 1947 is an endless, quixotic rearguard action by defeated Palestinians.
The Palestinians would be fools not to take this "deal." And the Israelis would be fools not to do everything in their power to use this "deal" as a way to help build a real future for the Palestinians.
1
@Jason Shapiro
Generous campaign donations from "his conservative Jewish donors and evangelicals", no doubt. Quid pro quo!
5
US and all authoritarians governments around the globe have to be stopped. Europe, it’s time to raise up before it’s too late. This world is spiraling out of control!
4
We are to the point where nation leaders work hard to be elected in order to avoid jail time.
50
The only plan that would work is to grant equal rights to all the inhabitants of the area between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean. Isn’t equal rights and democracy what the US stands for and promotes throughout the World. Isn’t this is what is expected for the “Shining City on the Hill”.
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@Denis
That's the only viable, functional, economic, just, fair, tolerant, human and democrats solution to this problem.
4
Nathan Thrall is right about this. As bad as Trump’s plan is, and it is awful, it is the logical conclusion of many decades of posturing and theater. Americans who claimed to support a two state solution were, for the most part, not serious about it or the settlement project would have been stopped decades back. Even if one leans over backwards and tries to blame the Palestinian leadership for everything ( which I think is wrong) yiu can’t expand settlements and talk about a nebulous peace process that goes on forever as settlements increase.
I happen to think the Palestinian leaders have been incompetent , but the Americans and the Israelis have just been kicking the can down the road. Maybe that is competence. It depends on what the goal is. Nobody was supposed to say out loud what Trump has now done. Basically the settlements will continue to grow.
So now it is one man, one vote.
7
Let's assume for a moment that the Palestinians give up any notion of honor or pride and accept Israel as their master. That they willingly abandon their claims to their ancestral lands in return for some piece of desert.
What would they get in this deal?
50 bn Dollars that have not been committed by anyone.
That's roughly 10.000 Dollars per head one time.
Absolute peanuts and certainly not anywhere near the costs that the development of infrastructure and nation building require.
Maybe a zero is missing in the plan.
So Trump is not only lousy in history and geopolitics, he also doesn't understand economics.
20
If you look closely you’ll see the proposed map is really the electoral map of swing states showing the counties Trump will lose in November.
6
This is exactly how we get embroiled in the Middle East military conflicts.
9
This is a peace plan that does not have peace as an outcome. This will result in more violence in the region.
15
@Sherlock
That seems to be happening now there were strong protests in Bethlehem and other cities in the West Bank.
I assume that the only reason bipartisan Israel loves "the deal" is because it favors Israel and allows it to keep the settled land. The deal unsettles the Palestinians because what they consider as their land occupied by the settlers belongs to them. I assume the deal is a plan that will bring the Palestinians to tango on talks across the table. No independent should think that the deal will be an easy bite for the Palestinians. UAE, Oman and Bahrain have gone along with the plan but that does not mean that it will become a deal. Iran and its proxy Hamas will instigate the Palestinians to reject the deal. Nice try for the past 3 years. It will take two to tango. right now I only see one trying to tango while the other is going to refuse to tango. But then I am no expert in the middle east. I have been to Israel and the Palestinian territory of Bethlehem 23 years ago and I have seen too many hopes dashed including the one that Clinton tried to broker at camp David.
2
@Girish Kotwal
It takes an honest and fair broker and time, but nothing like that can be seen. And Trump and Jared Kushner are the pits
Peace, in the sense of absence of war, requires Israel military control of the Jordan Valley and airspace.
Partial sovereignty or "state minus" for the Palestinians is an essential element of any agreement.
So it's good that the U.S. is recognizing that fact as a starting point.
5
@Mmm This proposal is that of a conqueror - and will not be accepted. Not by the 'vanquished', not by the world. It WILL come back to haunt Israel - possibly with a repeat of the historical 'persecution' cycle that the Jews have dealt with over the centuries.
1
@Tamza It'll be accepted in any agreement because it's an essential element of any agreement.
Or it won't be accepted and the status quo will continue.
There's not a chance Israel will grant the Palestinians the power and authority to control Israel's external borders.
And of course, the veiled threat of "persecution" you allude to would be an all out war/invasion scenario. Which would be pretty ugly for everyone in the region to say the least. Israel isn't going away--you just have to accept that reality.
All timing issues and ulterior motives aside, this is an unrealistic plan because it is missing mutual assent amongst the necessary parties. The U.S. has engineered a peace bargain between Israel and Palestine by proposing the creation of “East Jerusalem,” an area carved out within Israel where Palestinians could have sovereignty. However, the U.S. and Israel failed to involve representatives from Palestine in the construction of this “bargain.” In fact, such representatives have spoken publicly against this “bargain.” So, in actuality, there is no deal. But one is needed.
Israel and Palestine have warred for generations. Theirs is one of the longest raging conflicts on Earth. A peace deal between the two peoples must be struck eventually, but it will require a sincere commitment from Palestine and Israel, with or without the help of the U.S. Historically, when the U.S. attempts to inflict governmental change in the Middle East it does more harm than good. Lets hope we learn from that history and that the two groups that actually need to reach an accord choose to meet and make the world a safer place.
5
@Jack
There are similarities in the history of the humiliating treaty of Versailles, one consequence that followed was the second world war.
1
This is not a good deal for Palestinians. However, the Palestinians have never really attempted to get a good deal. Their rejection of prior proposals and strategy of not negotiating until pre-conditions were met, merely allowed Israel to create facts on the ground by building more settlements. While the Palestinians may have been waiting for pressure to build against Israel, time has not been on their side. While there is plenty of blame to go around, the Palestinian leadership bears a major portion.
Unfortunately, the tensions in the area remain. This new proposal is not likely to solve them.
19
@TomL
I agree with you, and I am not optimistic that Palestinians will ever accept anything less than elimination of Israel.
However, nothing is lost if this latest effort fails. The Palestinians will just be behaving no different than they have been since 1967 (actually since 1948). Previous concessions to them have been a total failure to accomplish peace. So, if this effort also fails, then nothing is lost. But much just might be gained if by some small chance this unity of American and Israeli leaders causes the Palestinians to accept that they lost the war 53 years ago and act accordingly.
5
Their lands were colonized and appropriated and you expect the Palestinian people to be “reasonable”?
The Israeli and Palestinian people deserve peace. As it stands, both are made perpetually insecure. Both peoples are being fed to the machinations of domination by and dependence upon government régimes that use them as pawns on their chessboard of Empire with its stratagems of economic and political colonization.
The Israeli people are in danger and there is waning sympathy in this world for their long term safety in this crisis. Israel is being used, too, by unscrupulous leaders in the US who play with this issue to excite religious fundamentalists and extremist partisans of Zionism.
The Palestinian and Israeli people have both been led into terrible and dangerous errors by their leaders who operate like they still are caught up in the intrigues of the Ottoman court permeated with spies and assassins of peace.
So, I conclude that lecturing the victims of this terrible disorder won’t work either. In fact, upon a close reading of recent history, it’s likely to fail disastrously for both sides.
6
@TomL
Time is on their side due to demographics.
1
Kush baby didn’t have to do much to think up this peace plan. All he had to do was copy the treaties signed with native Americans and apply it to the Palestinians. The Israelis get the bounty and the Palestinians get the reservation. So let’s talk peace and forget illegality and corruption. We are solving the Middle East’s most intractable problem.
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@PDH
Shia vs Sunni is pretty intractable, too and has been going on longer. Kurds vs Turkey is pretty intractable, too. The region is a target rich environment for intractable problems..
1
Kushner is making bad real estate deals. It’s what he does. Maybe, Qatar can bail him out on this one, too.
5
@PDH This plan was dreamed up and proposed by someone who has ignored those who have spent their lives studying this problem and have offered guidance in how to approach it. However there are two bullheaded and arrogant parties who just want it done their way.
Would you fly on an airplane that had been just serviced by a teenager who barely knows what a screwdriver is? That is about the quality of knowledge and expertise that has gone into this. But time was running out and Jared had to propose something.
7
Great work Jared! Maybe for your next act you can make the oceans recede.
70
@Kara bloom
Before or after walking on water?
I am suffering from TOS (Trump Overdose Syndrome) as I am tired of lies, misdirection, untruths (yup saw a article on that), and the ongoing sales of the cure all Snake Oil.
This is another thing that is ill advised and poorly thought out. The comparison to American Indians and the "Deal" they got is a good one.
When this was announced I was watching the BBC and all I could think was "Did all the involved parties agree to this?".
Then came the answer The Palestinian People were boycotting the U.S. and Israeli negotiations.
I understand why the Palestinians boycotted this but I think they passed up a chance to make their case known to those who don't understand what has happened years ago.
I have no problem with Israel but I have a problem when some folk are left out of decisions that affect them.
Just an old white man's opinion...
3
@Kara bloom
I thought Obama did that already.
1
This is not a peace plan but rather a plan for the United States to give something it doesn’t own and has no conceivable right to give - Palestine - to the Likud Party and the settler movement.
207
Forget the history. The traditional track, for many reasons, did not bring peace.
The problem with this one is that it treats Palestinians like dirt, segregating them to the equivalent of the old South's "other side of the tracks." This is not straightening out lines and including pockets; it's a major annexation, likely to displace numbers of Palestinians.
There will be consequences for Israel. Don't know exactly what they will be, more years of Netanyahu maybe, but the old Chinese curse "beware of getting your wishes" applies.
42
Trump and Netanyahu are cut from the same cloth, corrupt, venal, dishonest, mean-spirited and less interested in Middle East peace than their own political fortunes. The one-sided Kushner plan was dead even before it arrived. King Abdullah of Jordan, where half the population is Palestinian, could never accept it. Nor can Saudi Arabia, Egypt and the Gulf emirates, no matter how tired they are of supporting the Palestinian cause. And if Kushner naively expected his good friend and murderer of a Washington Post columnist to be in his corner, he should by now be aware that MBS has been having discreet back-channel contacts with Iran to stave off further rocket attacks on Saudi oil fields.
73
@Christy Since the Palestinians have said no to every peace initiative and brought none themselves what else can they expect? They have lost territory due to their own intranscience so it's a bitter pill for them now and the left should stop supporting them.
I’ve been negotiating deals for over 30 years and it ain’t a deal until everybody signs. This is art of marketing. A proposal, with no input from the other side. Don the Con.
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@Billy Bobby
They had a couple decades at trying to get a negotiated deal. This plan forces the issue to get something going. You can always go back to poverty, fighting, and dying. The Palestinians need a new younger firebrand. Hammer this deal until you like it.
Its striking how much Israel and the us have come to resemble one another; both with big disenfranchised, cosmopolitan liberal populations, endangered far-right autocratic kleptomaniacs as leaders, outsized military presences spoiling for renewed conflict. Of course T and N are best buddies. Both nations full of peaceful, intelligent citizens who hate and fear what their governments have been warped into and how little they can do about it.
148
@Julia
Great comment, Julia. Thank you.
1
Don’t forget the component of fundamentalist religion.
4
This is not a “deal”. It’s an imposition.
113
Just looking at that proposed map should make it clear that this is a bogus plan. Would you like to live in a country that is laid out like a grocery store?
45
@plons Maybe they should have thought of that before they rejected every deal that has ever been proposed...
@Alison Rubin
That is no excuse for such an absurd deal. If it would be realized the whole ME could explode and Israel too would pay a heavy price.
1
Narcissism is ubiquitous among all politicians. As Charles DeGaule said with pride and strong leadership narcissism, "I AM FRANCE"!
8
Ignoring Netanyahu for the moment, has Trump ever negotiated a deal in his entire life that hasn't been entirely motivated by self interest? Art of the Deal leverage tactics may work in the zero sum world of business , especially if you have more money and lawyers than the other party, but it is not suited to diplomacy or public policy. Israel should name those annexed settlements Trumpville because they will have as much legitimacy as one of Trump's bankrupt fraudulent businesses or charities.
40
As we have seen over the decades, whether in Northern Ireland or Belgium, tensions cannot be dismissed. In Ireland, the Protestants could not ultimately suppress the Catholics. In Belgium there is peace but no accord. This settlement will never be accepted. A people without autonomy will continue to fight.
35
How is it possible to have a peace plan when there was no agreement with some of the major stakeholders?
110
I find it hypocritical that a 36 year old real estate executive is allowed to lead a peace plan in Israel because he is Trump's son in law, while we have the GOP doubting the competency of Hunter Biden who sat on a private board of directors. Has the world gone insane?
460
@Yuseph Ivanka Trump and her brothers are pocketing millions from this presidency. She has several patents from China and who knows what else in the works.
Ivanka is now under investigation for improper use of inauguration funds going into to her own pocket.
Biden's son should have used more common sense about working in Ukraine but he didn't line his pockets like the Trump children.
27
@Yuseph
And Kushner isn’t even a successful RE exec! Hunter may have benefitted from his father’s position, but Kushner is setting international policy and cannot even pass the bar for a security clearance. I am tired of the Trumpist shadow government running our republic.
26
@Mountain Dragonfly Kushner is effectively ruining lives for another generation with his policies.
Compared to that, Hunter Biden's (admittedly distasteful) $85K/month job seems more trivial than ever.
15
I sincerely doubt that either Trump or Netanyahu are able to focus on anything but what helps them personally. Their respective countries only exist for them to justify their personal agendas and no one else matters in the least.
154
Good example of more gaslighting by Trump and Kushner to look like they are getting something done. Of course Trump had to announce it during his impeachment trial to deflect from the not so good news on that front.
Jared worked so hard on the plan and didn't even get to be on TV for the announcement.
109
@Jacquie
Jared's appearance on TV might remind people that his father-in-law placed him in a cushy position that he was totally unqualified for.
4
two nations, self-proclaimed moral arbiters, led by crooks. let's make a deal in our echo chambers.
236
All other issues aside ( and there are many / as outlined in other comments )
This smells like a real estate developers “ deal” - when a 20 story
building is proposed for land that is currently zoned for 10 stories .
56
This “plan” is typical of how Trump thinks and acts. There is little to no acknowledgment or understanding of the long and complex history of the region. It’s focused on the countries and leaders that Trump and his company have benefited from and ignores a vital party to any Mideast peace plan - the Palestinians. It’s transactionally based, mistakenly thinking that tempting the Palestinians with money, most likely with no real credibility or facts behind the amounts being thrown around, will be successful. And it’s all show with little substance. Trump wants to be seen as a deal maker so that he can brag about it at his rallies and help himself and his indicted friend Bibi win re-election. He really doesn’t care about peace in the Mideast. As usual it’s all to benefit Trump.
82
This is a plan for war and explicit apartheid. At least it makes bare what has always been true- the settler colonial Israeli project is fully US supported, indeed Israel floats on a sea of US money and lives under a US diplomatic umbrella. This also means the US is explicitly hitching its future in the region to the most retrograde and corrupt forces and undermining the hopes of millions upon millions of people. This, along with deliberately acting to worsen relations with Iran will very likely lead to even worse long term bloodshed and chaos in the region. We all will reap the whirlwind.
75
This is another example of Trump blatantly trying to influence foreign elections himself. Given his behavior it’s clear he sees nothing wrong with soliciting influence from foreign entities to help himself, whether it’s appropriate or legal or not.
33
The proposed map looks like something the RNC would have come up with in a gerrymandering meeting.
296
@UH It may be that they used the same software program to draw the maps based on intended outcomes.
15
"It was pretty familiar Trump language, born of a certainty that economic incentives will overcome ethnic, tribal and religious differences, despite considerable evidence to the contrary."
So this is "imposed peace" through the "deal of the century" effectuated by two leaders desperate for an escape hatch for their legal troubles.
It's also "take it or leave it, but whatever you do doesn't matter" with some sort of pledge that Palestininans can vote on it way later when terms are cemented in place.
Is this for real? How on earth can you say this is a peace plan, when the terms are dicatated, the advantages all accrue to Isreal, and it was dreamed up by the son of a US president, not any joint Palestinian-Israeli commission?
206
@ChristineMcM And the Palestinians will be accused of rejecting another "generous deal". But this, as it unilaterally goes forward to completion of what has been happening all along, is also the US and Israel giving the finger, or a firmer finger, to international law.
63
@ChristineMcM It is not its son, but close enough.
1
@ChristineMcM
Peace by oppression. It's an old colonial ruse.
6
How much to buy out the settlements?
11
"... process created in the Oslo Accords, which began in 1993 and largely ended with the failed summit in 2000 at Camp David."
To understand this peace plan the failure of 2000 has to first be appreciated. As Dennis Ross, the key negotiator of that Summit, said, the reason for the failure was what Arafat really wanted was a "...one-state solution. Not independent, adjacent Israeli and Palestinian states, but a single Arab state encompassing all of Historic Palestine." In other words, the elimination of Israel.
At the time, Saudi Arabia's response was that if Arafat did not accept what was on offer then, "it won't be a tragedy; it will be a crime"
The Palestinian's chose to wait it out hoping, as in 1948, that Israel would be somehow defeated and they would be given the spoils. Instead, they got this Trump plan which is the worst of any proposed.
Trump's plan, while a non-starter, does indicate what the state of play is today. Perhaps, the Palestinians will finally appreciate that realistic negotiations must again begin. History is not encouraging on this point, but what other choice is there?
15
It is not a peace deal, but the destruction of the "Oslo agreement" in favour of the Israeli-American extreme right. With no positive future, at all.
98
A blip in the signal to noise ratio. Just another deal that will end up in the trash bin.
49
This is not a plan for peace. The Palestinians were not involved in this plan. The plan terminates in four years. The Arab states are supposed to cough up $50 billion to create a Palestinian economy; pigs will fly when that happens. The mountain rumbled and all that came out from it was a mouse and not a very viable mouse either.
270
@Stephen Kurtz
I agree.
Please read the excellent Thrall article in this paper.
It outlines the event that led to the current "peace" plan.
9
@Stephen Kurtz
Palestinians were not involved in the peace plan? They were invited and refused. That's like complaining about the House impeachment inquiry because Trump was not involved in it.
9
@Stephen Kurtz
The $50 billion has already been arranged by Kushner. Saudi Arabia is the main finance source in return for US nuclear technology transfer and US maximum pressures on Iran. The Trump real estate empire gets a lifeline by means of Saudi debt forgiveness.
18
Call it what it is.
This is the imposition of annexation on a people by main force, with neither voice nor vote in the matter.
It has nothing to do with Democracy; indeed it is the very antithesis of democratic government.
The article mentions—but does not press—the role of evangelicalism.
That is what this is about, at least here in the US.
Trump is reminding the GOP Senators, and reassuring his evangelical base, of his original contract with white conservative evangelicalism: he will do ANYTHING to keep them in power (as they see it). He will keep doing whatever he wants, and it is up to them to protect his back.
Needless to say, from the point of view of every democratic norm—I refer to the system of government, not the political party—this is hideously shameful behavior, an autocrat flaunting his abuse.
I should add, from the point of view of the Christian gospel, treating Palestinians this way—treating ANYONE this way—is despicable.
317
@Paul C. McGlasson "The only Christian who has ever lived, died on the Cross." [Paraphrased per F. Nietzsche]
5
Generally speaking, to declare that a "deal" has been made, you must have the agreement of the disputing parties in question...not a deal between on the parties and the so-called honest broker. That sounds more like a con or a scam.
39
Senator Christopher S. Murphy, Democrat of Connecticut, who was among the lawmakers briefed by Mr. Kushner at the White House, called it “a total abandonment of decades of U.S. Middle East policy.”
First step in the right direction.
21
@Josh. F. Right direction being?
Or do mean "it is jump to to the right"wingers position?
5
@Josh. F.
Words are cheap, nothing will be done to change anything, just like last time around when the Golan Heights was annexed and the embassy moved to Jerusalem and all the other times when Gaza was bombed and all UN resolutions vetoed. The US has a terrible record, it is bipartisan to boot.
1
Your article only disparages President Trump and his effort to get a peace accord. You allude to the efforts of prior administration as being moderately successful but ultimately a collection of failures, failures that were the result of Palestinian intransigence and bellicosity. Perhaps this is a take it or leave it plan. But given the fact that the Palestinian leadership refuses to accept Israel, that's the reality.
9
@MCH Actually this is more a "we took it and you need to leave" plan.
67
@Yuseph
They "took"it after they were attacked by Egypt Syria and Jordan and before there were any settlements. Israel is entitled to "secure" borders and the existing nine mile width between the 1949 lines and the sea are what has been previously described as "Aushwitz" borders.
2
@abraham kleinman
It was the Palestinian homeland. What did you expect they would do, just pack and leave? What other people would have done that? Even the American Indians fought for their homeland, they too lost it, but they did fight for it.
5