Bats are cool.
Come on, admit it. They fly — WITHOUT ANY FEATHERS!
Bats are cool.
150
Is saving a little bit of money worth spreading disease all over the globe. Why are we trading with China? They could have cleaned this up if they wanted to.
38
Before we "blame" bats we should be sure that we keep animal markets clean and wash our hands. The pressures of these markets put risks not only locally but globally.
48
Once I was riding my bike near a small village on the island of Sumbawa, in Indonesia. A local man came out from his home to greet me, holding his pet fox bat. It was hanging from his arm like from a tree branch. He opened a bottle of Fanta orange soda and asked me, in English, if I wanted to feed it. I turned him down, but he proceeded anyway and the bat, still upside down, nearly gulped it all down, my jaw hanging open. Before I said a word,the man finished off the soda. I asked him if he ever got sick from doing that, and he just shrugged.
107
Fantastic article! Thank you.
21
On many islands in the Indonesian archipelago, including Bali, you can often find fox bats high in the fruit trees, sometimes dropping mishandled or half eaten fruit. It isn’t a stretch to imagine someone picking up fruit from the ground and eating it unsuspecting it may harbor a virus from bat saliva.
34
So much discussion about how bats could transmit this pathogen when a far more rational explanation exists.
Wuhan is home to a level 4 biohazard containment lab - the Wuhan Virology Institute.
It recently was seeking to hire one or two post-doc fellows, who will use "bats to research the molecular mechanism that allows Ebola and SARS-associated coronaviruses to lie dormant for a long time without causing diseases."
It sure seems like China was doing research on corona viruses and bats for whatever reasons - though it is difficult to avoid speculation about bioweapons. Something escaped the lab. Whether a full blown weapon or some intermediate stage development isn't known but the long latent stage is a characteristic that is desirable in a bioweapon, allowing it to spread undetected.
Why are the NYT and others going on and on about the natural transference of a virus from bat to man without any mention of research on just such a pathogen going on in a biohazard lab in Wuhan?
75
@cynicalskeptic While it is good to think of alternative explanations, it is our responsibility to refrain from unsubstantiated claims that might lead to fear mongering as most conspiracy theories do.
I found a statement suggesting that the virus is unlikely to be synthetically made/manipulated, don't know how true that is. Also an escape from the lab could have also happened of a natural strain, in which case it is plain wrong to term it as a 'bioweapon'
Quote:
“Based on the virus genome and properties there is no indication whatsoever that it was an engineered virus,” said Richard Ebright, a professor of chemical biology at Rutgers University.
Source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2020/01/29/experts-debunk-fringe-theory-linking-chinas-coronavirus-weapons-research/
97
Even though they carry a lot of viruses, in America we don't typically eat bats, and they feed veraciously on other pests.
45
The arrogance of humans will eventually kill humans.
53
Or, at the least, the foul eating habits of some of us.
27
Interesting. I remember my dad telling me about the Spanish Infuenze of 1918. He was a small boy then but tolded me about horse drawn wagons going around town picking up the people who had died. He always felt that a virus would eventually show up that we couldn't stop. Granted, we have lots of expertise in this field, but Mother Nature seems to keep changing the rules.
36
So is the idea that bats get sick from these viruses, but because they have a weakened immune response, they don't die from the inflammation? The cited research only suggests they don't get as much inflammation, not that they don't get sick.
21
If scientists were fully aware that the next big outbreak would originate from bats, why were animal markets still allowed to sell them in China?
The State in China needs to acknowledge the connection between tradition and reality better and pay attention to their scientists. Hardliner desire to quell the people with "tradition", mixed with dangerous opportunistic exploitation equals a society as mutated as a virus. Wet markets are literally a soup of pathogens. I thank any Chinese activists who are trying to prevent not only global pandemics, but the awful inhumane practice of the reckless yet lucrative wildlife trade.
83
If only we can convince china to ban all wild life meat forever, then We can be safer... positive effect would be tigers, rhino and rest of the near extinct animals might have a chance.
For the poor, poor countries, put a tax on travel for rich, countries and pay the poor in china, amazon etc... also note that canadian mining companies cause worst environmental damage than poor. So maybe it is time we make them accountable also. They go to amazon, ecuador, africa etc. include australia and their govenrment as worst also. Cheers.
31
China's insatiable appetite for wildlife not only threatens all of humanity with grave diseases, it is also responsible for the impending extinction of countless species in the wild: tigers, several bear species, sharks, many species of pangolin, the world's smallest dolphin, river dolphins, uncountable species of birds and reptiles. To say nothing of elephants, rhinos, and all other species disappearing to feed the bottomless market for Chinese 'medicine'.
Only a small fraction of humanity cares about the natural world, but everyone cares about deadly epidemics. The Chinese government has the ability to shut down all wildlife markets overnight, and could severely curtail the demand for ivory and all the bits and pieces of disappearing wildlife devoured by their superstitious citizens. The world must demand an end to the dangerous and destructive decimation of the planet's dwindling animal life.
172
The US needs pour money into the protection of wildlife as well as animal welfare here and around the world and make it part of trade relations. I can't believe China can't do better.
40
This kind of press leads to people killing bats outright, or putting up exclusion contraptions to keep them from roosting. Bats are a crucial part of the ecosystem, and should be encouraged and protected. Don’t blame bats for the mutation and spread of novel viruses. Blame the humans who cage, torture, sell and slaughter illegally caught — often endangered — wild animals in the live food markets of Asia. Blame irresponsible meat farmers who keep animals in filthy conditions. This is about cross contamination and poor animal husbandry, not about bats.
Bats everywhere are threatened already by loss of habitat and a fatal and virulent nose disease that is spreading quickly. Their numbers are falling. For 24 years I had bats roosting on my house every summer, eating all of our mosquitos. Last summer I had no bats roosting here. We were plagued by mosquitos.
Provided roosting habitat for bats without worry. If you keep livestock, keep them in clean and humane conditions. Be sensible and responsible.
149
I'm in favor of mosquito-eating bats. I am not in favor of bat-eating people.
129
Way to initiate a pandemic of bat freak out! Buried in this story is a short line people won't notice about bats' vital role in insect control. So ill-informed bat vigilantes will target bats for extermination. Then as temperate zones become tropical with climate change and we are beset with deadly mosquito-carried diseases, people will be crying, "Where are all the bats?"
Moral of the story: Don't bug bats. Let bats bug bugs. That's their job. Let them do it in peace.
114
People, please check your attics and see any signs of bats! Once I lived for 2 years in an old house infested with bats. They made their dwelling in the attic and I had no idea about it until I got into the attic one day and saw a huge pile bat guano. I never went back. I'm pretty sure the air in that attic was toxic. I could feel it. It was evil. I could not breathe in there. There was also a lot of bat urine stain marks in the bathroom that seeped through from the attic. Despite all this evidence, when I mentioned about it to the landlady, she tried to convince me that it's all good. The guano pile and the bats had been there for 40 years and there had not been any problems. Yeah, right. I'm pretty sure whatever spore, bacteria or virus that they carry might have affected her brain too, not only my respiratory system. I did have some difficulty breathing while I was living there, but I thought it was just my allergy to dust. I moved out not long after I discovered the bats issue.
19
Ya. I'm just so relieved Trump is making this his highest priority. Not.
5
The bat in the photo looks likely to weigh more than an ounce
1
Considering the amount of fear everyone seems to have about this virus perhaps people should consider the fact that the CDC estimates almost 80,000 people in the USA alone died of INFLUENZA in 2018. There have been about 200 known deaths from this virus at the moment. And despite the death rate of Influenza most people do not even make the effort to get a vaccination which is widely available. While the new virus is troubling in its ability to spread so rapidly it is probably much less of a risk then the Flu. The point people should be concerned about is that we have known for years that this was likely to happen and nothing has been done to prepare for it. The outbreak of bat linked epidemics were predicted long before this happened. This is in fact what Ebola is as well. People should if anything take this as a serious warning and start doing what can in order to prepare for something with an ability to spread like this new virus but an ability to kill a much greater percentage of the people infected with it. Basically what a human transmissible Ebola virus could do. This could easily wipe out 20% of the human population. On the positive side an epidemic which wiped out 10-50% of humanity (like previous epidemics) would go a long way towards reducing over population.
13
Wild animals carry many pathogens that were contained within their species until humans came along and through deforestation and development, diet for bushmeat, etc. have upset the balance - particularly in the open markets such as the one described in Huwan, there were multiple wild species of animals contained within close proximity or maybe slaughtered using the same chopping block - scientists are trying to find out. Zoonotic disease will probably occur more often if we do not curb our population numbers and our diet for animal protein.
149
I have accordingly curbed my appetite for bat meat.
39
@Larry D
Did it taste like chicken?
15
It may be that being able to harbor so many viruses provides an evolutionary advantage to bat species. Bats, all fragile and delicate in their own right, still have to compete with each other and with other animals for access to food and suitable roosting locations, so hosting a virulent virus without suffering its affects may act as a defensive weapon against incursions into a swarms territory. If this is happening, then it’s an example of biological warfare carried out on an evolutionary timescale, each bat species ratcheting up the viral load and virulence generation by generation as it seeks to perpetuate its existence.
By harvesting these animals, and co housing them with other species in crowded markets, we may have inadvertently invited this evolutionary battle onto ourselves.
106
@doug mclaren Having worked for many years for Dr. Merlin Tuttle (that is his photo) when he was the President of Bat Conservation International, I always shudder when I see articles such as this. Of course these studies are very necessary - but beware if the takeaway of most people is..............ewww not only do they suck blood but their viruses can kill us. I agree with you - in so many ways they are a keystone species and beware the results of thinking the answer is more killing.
46
@doug mclaren
I should have said colony instead of swarm when referring to a group of bats of the same species.
18
I lived in Florence, Italy one summer and quickly came to appreciate the bats that ate mosquitos (preventing the mosquitoes from dining on us).
It seems that the problem with bat-borne viruses is that in some places, people handle and eat them. Not surprising, but dangerous.
267
Is it known whether bats are also less susceptible to sepsis? Sepsis can also be caused when the body's response to an infection goes into overdrive, spurring organ damage and shut down. I'm just wondering if there is something we've learned about bats and sepsis that would be helpful in treating newly septic humans.
10
The fact that bats are the pollinator of avocadoes, bananas, mangoes, etc. makes me wonder if I shouldn't be washing all of those products when they come in the house from the store. It is interesting information. Having had a huge garden for the last almost 42 years, where I have washed in very hot water all of the vegetables before I used them, and also the cantaloupes, watermelons, apples, even grapes, etc., the fact that we have lots of older trees, and have had about 4 bats get into our older home over that time period, makes me wonder about viruses, disease, etc. I had two children, who had very little sickness growing up compared to the other children, even though we lived in an older home where I had to set mouse traps every fall, and was adamant about hand washing, etc. There are plenty of questions to be answered about transmission of viruses, immunity, and hopefully a vaccine for the deadly corona viruses, especially SARS, MERS, and now this one.
12
@MaryKayKlassen If being supercharged with antibodies ;) does't save us, rigorous hand washing does. It was ridiculed (to my mother) 60 years ago, but now we know it's an appropriate preventive measure. Just take a cruise ship vacation sometime, and notice all the countermeasures to disease proliferation; cleanliness of hands is primary, and the kitchen gets steam cleaned every 24 hours.
12
Very interesting. Another important question : will there be a team of epidemiologists to study the causation of this epidemic, with recommendations to prevent causative conditions in the future?
3
The bat article referenced for their adaptation to flight and lack of inflammation is missing the key detail. Yes, the inflammation response is likely subdued but it is made up elsewhere with interferon alpha. Excessive interferon alpha stimulates the immune system to create more B cells.
Interferon alpha is also a drug given to chemo patients with weakened immune systems. If people have a normal mammalian inflammatory response and a lower level of B cells than bats then we would fight off a bat virus in a suboptimal way.
An infection creates pneumonia due to the inflammatory response of the lungs which is what is killing people. As a science journalist can you find out if the chemo drug interferon alpha is being used to treat people with this coronavirus? I am especially interested in people who are older with underlying health conditions and weakened immune systems. Also I would like to know the name of the companies that produce the drug and their stock symbol. K, thanks!
17
Providing for one’s family doesn’t respect ideological bounds. Poorer populations historically drain their natural resources because it earns them a living, whether ivory or exotic animals. The government can ban bats as a food source but until a standard of living is raised as a whole, perhaps by incentivizing legal operations, it would seem hard to enforce. Just look at overfishing or whaling. The health of the world may depend on the approach.
15
Bats are marvels of nature, perfectly designed to devour hordes of harmful insects, vector mosquitoes in particular. Why on earth anyone would want to eat them is beyond my comprehension- if for no other reason than the fact that they offer so little flesh! Let them be to do their benevolent work, and dine on safer fare.
51
Never knew that people eat bats. I always assumed they were private creatures living in caves, and we stayed away from them and them from us. Guess I was sorely mistaken.
17
@NessaVa Humans will eat anything, that's the real problem. We're a lot like vermin in that sense: too many of us and we consume to the point of madness.
23
@NessaVa I can't think of a single logical reason to eat bats. They are built to be incredibly light and there would be nothing but gristle and bones along with some very tough, stringy muscle . . . the viscera would no doubt be quite disgusting and the numbers of parasites inhabiting the poor beleaguered creatures would no doubt thrill a parasitologist.
No, there are NO reasons to eat bats other than to gain magical powers or some sort of boost to manhood, as usual the reasoning behind the eating of most of these inoffensive creatures; indeed, over my 62 years I've come to the conclusion that there is *no reason for me to have to eat any animals at all; period.*
But I know I need not worry too much—in the not-too-far-off future there will BE no more animals to eat besides the ones we keep in factory farms. What a thrill that will be to our coming generations.
But hey, they can always watch videos of them on their phones.
24
This article helps explain why these killers flu viruses always originate in Asia, and even Africa because the locals eat the wildlife. To include Feral cats!
10
@Moe Millions of Chinese country folk historically live in close proximity to their ducks and pigs, over the long cold winter... sharing air, dirt, everything. Thus the "Asian flu"typically shows avian and porcine influences. Now we're talking about bats... "vespertilionine" influences.
8
@Moe Flu probably starts in chicken and ducks.
1
FYI, the consumption of bats is exceedingly uncommon if non-existent in China. The viral videos floating around social media actually depict a Chinese woman eating "bat-soup" in the context of a travel show in Palau (not China), similar to what you would see in American travel shows. This harkens back to a common trope involving the "disgusting' eating habits of Chinese people, which is misleading and racist. It's unclear the true source of the virus, but it is likely that if it was from a bat, it was from the consumption of an intermediate animal, rather than a bat itself.
26
@Bill
From a Western and specifically American standpoint, SOME Chinese DO consume animals which are disgusting to eat -namely civets, bats, rats, mice, and dogs.
It's not racist to say that in this culture, my culture, consuming such animals, is indeed disgusting.
19
@Bill Not sure about your claim here. I remember seeing the "Bizarre Foods" guy chowing down on shish kabobed bats in an asian market.
14
@Bill
Considering the suspected "intermediate" animal as you call it is suspected to be venomous snakes I'm not sure that really helps your argument concerning the " common trope involving the "disgusting' eating habits of Chinese people, which is misleading and racist".
Where do these "american travel shows" find the things to eat on camera if people are not eating them?
9
It is worth noting that Uighurs, who adhere to ancient muslim halal dietary practices, were not an origin point for either SARS or the coronavirus. The Chinese government should stop oppressing them and instead halt the insane practice of selling and consuming wild animals.
31
The author uses “animal” as a class that excludes humans. However, humans are animals. It’s not in doubt.
The first step for clarity of thought is accurate use of language. Some animals are human, some are non-human.
16
THANK YOU! This is one of my pet peeves, too, so glad to have some help in pointing out this very important and common inaccuracy.
6
Clarity of thought need not be taken to the point of priggishness in language.
12
There are some incredibly Western-centric comments out there. Bats aren't widely eaten in China. As for "why bats" in general - not every land has been a spoiled land of plenty. But take a look inwards before we scream "exotic" - exotic to you maybe.
8
How revolting that people still eat bats. Just remember,
Nature Bats Last.
30
Revolting that we eat bats? More revolting than eating ducks or deer?
For that matter, more revolting than that we eat any fellow animal, whether wild or domestic?
Meat eating is revolting. What animal is beside the point. IMO.
20
Do you find it revolting that animals eat meat?
11
@Mike C.
That occurred to me too. Many articles suggest that live exotic food markets are the source of the coronavirus outbreak.
Would people have to eat a Chinese horseshoe bat to catch the virus? If so, do the Chinese eat them, and are they generally sold in exotic food markets? If so, wouldn't cooking the bat kill the virus? Do people eat bats raw? If they buy a bat to eat is it already slaughtered and cleaned, or is it alive (like a lobster)?
7
Not explained here is how the transmission occurs.
Would the virus survive its host (the bat) having been cooked (bat soup)? Fried?
Or does it only happen when handling the bats live?
How are bats sold in China's food markets? Live? Dead?
Follow-up would be appreciated.
31
@David The “wet markets” where these animals are sold (and where this virus started) are called wet because the animals are sold live then killed in front of the customer.
23
@BT Thanks.
Same with snakes, if they were the vector?
Sold live?
(I would assume that the live handling is the issue, not the eating, unless the virus would survive its host being cooked or fried.)
3
@David, the general theory on virus mutation is that bats pass the virus in their droppings. That exposes other animals who are not immune, and the virus mutates as it is spread. A bat is a vector. The perfect petri dish for virus mutation is a farm where there are mammals (pigs), land and water birds (chickens and ducks) and maybe ponds full of fish. A bat roosts in the beams of the livestock shed, drops its excretions into the water and food of the animals below. And there you go.
To be exposed to a virus while eating a bat? I think the bat would have to be partially raw (a real possibility, in many parts of Asia). Or the person who prepared the bat was unsanitary in handling and slaughtering the animal, and spread the virus onto the bowl or some of the uncooked food (herbs or greens, for instance). Poor sanitation is at the heart of all this.
21
First I read that the virus probably came from melting permafrost releasing it into the air, next it probably from snakes being sold in a Chinese market, now it's from bats? What's next? Frankly, I don't much care where it came from, I do care about where it's going and whether we're going to be able to stop it.
6
@lynchburglady Science and discovery, in all its forms, always lurches between hypotheses. Experimental facts slowly emerge and answers are often (usually) more complex than originally assumed.
To stop formulating hypotheses, to "not care" where the virus comes from or its transmission, misses a huge part of the puzzle and makes determining where it's going that much harder.
29
@lynchburglady Were you equally worried about the recent flu that killed 5,000 people in its first 2 months in the USA?
If there is no source found it takes much longer to stop the source and to design a working inoculation. That is why it took so long for SARS.
7
A great number of pandemics (swine flu, avian flu, coronavirus) arise from people eating animal flesh—and not just exotic animals. It is clear that consuming other species is not only morally reprehensible but also dangerous to our microbiomes.
34
@CP - but most pandemics come from tropical or temperate zones, not the northern latitudes where groups are most inclined towards carnivore diets based on fishing and hunting, rather than plant-based diets, due to short growing season.
8
@CP Exactly this.
2
@CP Well I would agree but Romaine is my favorite lettuce and I have been told repeatedly not to touch it or eat it in the USA.
2
Bats in North America are, however, susceptible to fungus infections; specifically, Pseudogymnoascus destructans, the fungus that causes white nose syndrome. Ironically, it appears that bat researchers brought the fungus over from Europe (where the bats are resistant), causing massive death in bat colonies over much of North America.
22
The evidence for a bat reservoir for coronavirus has not been established, although there might some weak circumstantial evidence to support that view.”
3
China has no problem with "regulating" it's human population in Hong Kong but has great difficulty in maintaining safe and clean livestock markets. Wild animals cannot be included in a livestock market. Is their a Chinese Equivalent to the FDA?
Want to avoid introducing bat viruses tot he human population? Don't eat them.
21
FYI, the consumption of bats is exceedingly uncommon if non-existent in China. The viral videos floating around social media actually depict a Chinese woman eating "bat-soup" in the context of a travel show in Palau (not China), similar to what you would see in American travel shows. This harkens back to a common trope involving the "disgusting' eating habits of Chinese people, which is misleading.
It's unclear the true source of the virus, but it is likely that if it was from a bat, it was from the consumption of an intermediate animal, rather than a bat itself.
4
Years ago in Austin, some civic-minded citizens wanting to clean up the world for the good of prospective businesses tried to get the powers that be to eradicate the great free-tail bat population living downtown. Fortunately the farmers along the Rio Grande clogged the avenues with their tractors till people listened: ECOLOGY! ECOLOGY! ECOLOGY!
Nowadays, people come from miles around to see them emerge from the bridge spanning Lady Bird's river as they begin their long, nightly, journey to the fruit valleys. Afterwards the happy folk head out for some spicy Mexican fare and a delicious fruit liquado. Now that's business we can all live with!
19
Let's not rush to blame a bat, why don't we look at the Asian problem of needing to kill every animal for a source of food or whatever lame reason they come up with.
124
@Joe wow, that's painting roughly 60% of the world's population into a very narrow and racist view. Is it really an "Asian problem"? Or is it a specific cultural norm in a certain region different from the ones that we have in the US, which could be argued is problematic?
29
@Liz wrote: ". . . that's painting roughly 60% of the world's population into a very narrow and racist view. Is it really an "Asian problem"?"
Yes.
43
@Liz When your "cultural norm" results in mass viral infection, you change the cultural "norm"
46
So roaches and bats will roam the earth as other "weaker " species succumb to new viruses.
More seriously, there was an Op-Ed article that mentioned that there are many rural residents in Yunnan that have anti-bodies against Corona virus, so may be vaccine or blood transfusion from individuals already have anti-bodies against the corona virus may help those who have severe reaction to the corona virus. According to the same article, about 3% of those infected by the Corona experience severe health issues, including death: more than the common flue, and less than SARS.
4
Better understanding of evolutionary biology and protein needs of human body would help with many of the health issues we humans face. We don't need animal protein. Plenty of research on this. That's a myth passed down generations in many societies and also promoted by meat industry. Start by thinking where horses and elephants get their protein from and dig deeper from there.
8
A good article for those marginally informed. I expected something with more information.
incredible that the China government issued a statement that the commerce in wildlife will be suspended temporarily. Temporarily? That will for sure guarantee another disease and panic in the not too distant future. China being a
geographically large country with a population huge and diverse, to eradicate the wildlife commerce is understandably very challenging. However, people's habits and customs must change, human behavior being the ultimate culprit in this scenario, and that change is most likely if extremely strong prohibition occurs coupled with aggressive education about need for more 'civilized' eating habits.
25
@blgreenie
Yes, temporarily, just like they did during the SARS outbreak where the culprit was the the illegal consumption of civet foxes.
These temporary bans are done on purpose. The Chinese government doesn't want to change because it looks to these outbreaks to be population culling of certain groups - in this case wealthy people who inevitably threaten the current power structure just by the fact that they have a lot of money.
It's much more palatable to have tens of thousands of people die by "accident" of a completely preventable thing than to have people die in prisons for specious reasons.
3
I really love these fantastic science articles as a great refreshing alternative to the abject idiocy or our political news. Idiocy isn't the right word as it needs a new term, something that is an absurd assault on rationality itself.
16
Viruses invented us for housing and transportation.
30
Bats are so cool. Their fuzzy little faces are so cute. Maybe if humans didn’t make it their life’s mission to encroach on the territory of every single wild animal on the planet, then we wouldn’t be exposed to these exotic viruses in the first place.
65
Bats are very light weight, and can’t yield much food. China’s government must shut down wild life food markets, and focus on the education of its people. They need to understand that eating a particular animal can’t give the diner luck, longevity, or sexual stamina, beyond the basic nutrient value of the food. Why should the Chinese government lock up millions of Uyghurs to eliminate their “superstitious” religious beliefs, while tolerating Han Chinese food folkways that put world in danger?
186
@FreeDem
Hopefully this epidemic has changed the way the Chinese think about eating exotic animals. Recently a well known YouTube sensation in China went on her social media to publicly apologized for eating, filming her eating a bat as a delicacy.
I feel that changing perceptions is done both by the government and its social influencers.
Some of the young Youtubers are filming the daily scenes at Wuhan and I find those YouTube videos so truthful, and complement to news from the West.
Go Wuhan! The world stands with you.
13
@FreeDem I am glad the Chinese do not know eating Lion fish brings them extreme luck and the rarity of it brings it prestige.
5
@FreeDem
America first!
Have you ever eaten Passenger Pigeon or American Bison?
Have you ever eaten fish or deer or rabbit?
1
They don't live for long in New Zealand as our native bat is nearing extinction because they're being eaten by plagues of rats in NZ forests. Good riddance I say! Rats have a purpose afterall!
The problem probably isn't the bats but too many hungary people in the world eating bats and wild animals because their government doesn't feed them or supply enough food from western world nations that has been bred or farmed for the sole purpose of human consumption and has been subject to health and safety regulations. Governments around the world need to educate the public on health and safety when handling and cooking wild foods. New Zealanders eat wild foods and don't get these illnesses because of health and safety regulations in NZ being very strict and fines being heavy for being unlicensed. You're not allowd to take anything out of our government controlled forests so this doesn't happen. And no Chinese person would go into our forests to catch bats at night because they'd get lost and they're in remote spots so no problem for our nation.
2
@CK
These aren't poor people eating bats because they have no other meat sources. It's a Chinese delicacy and extremely expensive, only available to the rich.
12
Don’t cheer too soon for your loss of bats, which will inevitably be followed by uncontrolled mosquitoes and failed crop pollination, two key benefits of healthy bat populations.
23
If you don't listen to Greta, mother nature will strike back and take care of things on her own.
25
Wow. Thanks for the informative article.
3
People should not be eating exotic animals like bats. Case closed.
31
@Adam
Case opens...when famine strikes. When there’s a shipwreck, and you are stranded on a boat with your dead relatives, you may eat your brother’s flash.
The Chinese survived famines by eating anything. People used to go to the warehouses to harvest maggots grown on rotten produce to eat the maggots to survival.
What caused the famines? Well, some were due to political upheavals. What caused the political upheavals? Some were due to the West, who introduced Opium. The many histories to list here.
But the remarkable thing about the Chinese is they don’t hold demands for payments of past aggression from anyone. They don’t wait for generations of repatriation, or affirmative actions. They survive by whatever means, and pick up the work, and morph into something stronger. We can learn a lot from each other.
Go Wuhan! The world sees what’s happening.
2
@Adam Amen.
@Adam
Are snails, oysters, mussels, clams, squid, sardines, tuna etc. 'exotic animals'?
Case open.
7
It's not the bats' fault. It's those who eat them, those same who have depleted the world of rare species: rhinoceroses, tigers, pangolins, and other animals exterminated to satisfy the bizarre beliefs of the primitive and uneducated. Call it the revenge of the pangolin.
50
@Ronald Weinstein wrote: "It's not the bats' fault. It's those who eat them..."
That would be mostly the Chinese.
12
Let’s agree to stick with buffalo wings and not let that guy in who shows up to watch superbowl with bat wings. No jus no!
13
Do not eat: Chicken of the Cave.
17
just as people do not eat poison ivy, perhaps we could learn not to eat bats.
16
Really interesting, thank you! Just one gripe with this section of a sentence: “...Africa, Malaysia, Bangladesh and Australia.” Which countries in Africa? For too long we in the West have referred to the continent as a country, oversimplifying and possibly leading to stereotypes.
28
Who needs biological warfare when bats are going to wipe out the human race. Who'd have thought that!
5
They are related to the GOP in lineage and DNA. It is heredity completely.
7
Mental note to self: cut back on eating bats for 2020
26
If bats have so many viruses inside them, and in NZ, plagues of rats have nearly made the NZ native bat, that lives in remote forests, extinct, then why aren't the plagues of rats dying. Maybe study the rats that ate the bats to find a cure for airborne viruses.
10
How many vendors selling wild animals in the market in Wuhan have contracted the virus? How many of those animals were confiscated and tested ?
11
I never hear about bats in NZ and think they live in native forests owned by the government; and I read that the NZ species is nearing extinction because of rat plagues. Probably need to cull all bats in the world so people can't eat them or have them as pets then eat them in China. Maybe the government in China needs to have harsh fines for people who sell bats. And pay people to cull them.
1
@CK
Excellent idea. A similar way to prevent the person-to-person spread of HIV would be to cull all humans so HIV cannot be transmitted. Thank you for your excellent contribution.
6
@CK
And when there's mass starvation because of unfertilized crops, and an increased in insect borne diseases because of the slaughter of so many insectivores, which other species will we scapegoat for that?
8
Another bat marvel:
Some bats can even tolerate deadly venoms. The desert long-eared bat makes short work of scorpions, including the venomous variety.
22
Since so many of these disease outbreaks seem to occur in Africa and China where they are known to eat wild animals including bats the simple solution is to ban the capture, trading and eating of bats. The live animal markets at least in China seem to be the source.
11
People capturing and eating bats almost reminds me of kids who like to squash then pick them up by their wings to examine honey bees then get stung by them after the fact. I learned rather quickly as a kid that was a terrible idea and as an irrelevant side note I also learned quickly running around barefoot on clover filled ground wasn't too bright.
It's not as if most bats are so large they provide enough meat to feed entire communities and they don't exactly like to just sit around waiting to be killed. It's just nuts..
11
Bats contribute to the world's ecosystems by being important pollinators, as well as through their consumption of vast numbers of insects.
Mr. Gorman provides some great information about bats, and I thank him for it. I have a question, tho: is he up on White Nose Syndrome, which is killing many thousands of bats in the United States?
14
@LJMerr
It apparently came from Europe.
1
Among the vertebrate winners of the last major mass extinction were the birds and the bony fishes.
Among the mammal winners of that same extinction as noted here were the rodents and bats.
Modern humans have been around for about 300, 000 years since 1st appearing in Africa. And the most ancient humans and their diseases still live in Africa.
Infectious diseases long protected Africa from European colonization and exploitation except along the coasts and the slave trade and on paper.
5
I have always read that every living being plays a vital and necessary part in Nature's food chain.
But for the life of me, I cannot figure out how or where bats, rats and fleas fit in.
Rats and fleas were the primary carrier of the bubonic plague and now it looks as if bats are probably the ones responsible for spreading the coronavirus.
Good grief - what is around the corner yet to be discovered?
6
Don’t forget that cholera was originally a bovine disease!
3
@Marge Keller In case you are interested, here is a page on the numerous benefits of bats. https://www.nps.gov/subjects/bats/benefits-of-bats.htm
11
Hi Marge .. off the top of my head, I can't account for where bats and fleas fit into the the web of life. But rodents (rats and their cousins) are the food source for a huge percentage of the world's predators.
As for transmitting diseases such as plague, we're just collateral damage. The rats suffer and die from it first, and it's the hungry fleas that jump ship and go after whatever warm blooded creature's nearby.
Btw ... I do enjoy your comments in the political section. Keep 'em coming!
2
I find it fascinating that in the world's second largest economy, people can still purchase live wildlife (to eat!) in open-air markets and the leader of the country refers to an infectious disease as a "devil."
It wasn't clear to me whether the disease spreads from the animals through eating the animals, or if the virus is airborne and spread simply through contact with them. But whichever the case, it really makes me wonder about the strength of the Chinese economy when this outbreak (and others in the past) could likely have been prevented if the government put its own citizens' safety above their dietary preferences and shopping practices that keep causing these outbreaks.
Too bad that people want to eat bats and buy live poultry at medieval markets -- it's not good for anyone in our interconnected world.
47
@JM
Why? Economy or economic success does not equal "sophistication" or even "civilization".
Perhaps there is a problem with this view?
3
@JM all cultures have aspects which should be left in the past. The chinese really need to come to grips with these barbaric practices and finally civilize this aspect of their culture.
9
Dracula on the loose? I am not convinced that Bats were the original source of corona virus but may be the intermediate source of the speedy spread.
7
James Gorman has deftly written a thorough-yet-brief, informative article for the non-professional scientist on the subject of the coronavirus and its hosts, including why it is more than just a hot topic of the moment.
I was going to share this article until reading the last line with the terrorism analogy. I too like to use analogies, but ever since a more experienced colleague cautioned me against their use, I have cut back. This article may have cured me from using analogies forever.
21
@Lone Poster
Excellent point.
2
While I'm sure Dr. Dazzak would like his field to be supported by a budget the size of Homeland Security, I think we should invest our resources more into protecting bats and their habits and simply keeping humans away from them - even scientists, to some degree. There is a worldwide decline in bat populations likely caused by humans (including researchers) disturbing their habitat and introducing pathogens TO THEM and global warming, which disrupts their hibernation, food supply, etc..
We seem to know enough about them to be cautious and respectful toward them and to simply keep ourselves from encroaching on their worlds. If we can't keep ourselves from collecting and selling bats in animal markets and bazaars, after all of this, we've got some political issues to tend to that go beyond bats.
42
I bought a beautiful intarsia sweater decorated with bats from a Chinese online company. A bit strange outside of Halloween season, but then, I like things a bit strange. I get lots of compliments on it from young guys with piercings and tattoos.
I finally asked some Chinese acquaintances, why bats? They said the bats are considered good luck.
10
I think the author was very objective and responsible about the given information. Very informative
5
Why oh why are people eating bats?
191
@Bis K People don't eat bats, the issue that this article does not touch upon is the role that amplifiers play in the zoonosis process. Amplifiers are the go-between the bat and humans. A civet, wild pig or other animal that is consumed by humans will transmit the virus from the bat to us-- usually because they are exposed to bat feces on the fruit they eat. Still, the issue remains that humans simply have to stop eating wild animals.
42
@Bis K Maybe Ozzie Osborn knows the answer to that.
7
@Bis K
The same reasons they eat fish, snails, frogs, deer and rabbits.
Aboriginal Australians didn't eat the same foods as the British Empire criminal Australians.
5
China must ban consumption of wildlife and ban these dangerous markets.
How can wealthy people want to spend high prices for diseased wildlife? What an ignorant way to flaunt one’s wealth!
96
@Judy
America first!
Have you ever eaten Labrador Duck, Auk, Passenger Pigeon or American Bison?
Donald Trump and Rudy Giuliani aren't 'smart New Yorkers.
5
@Blackmamba people don’t eat these....
@Jay His point is that they are all extinct.
The birds were probably eaten to extinction but the bison was shot for its hides, tongues, and to deprive the plains Indians of their mainstay.
8
Bats are not the source of the virus; people doing stupid things with bats is the problem. And in this day when PEOPLE DON'T READ BEYOND THE HEADLINE, possibly you could be more responsible so stupid people all over don't start killing bats!
86
But even if we leave them alone, their droppings are a problem, no? People can very easily unwittingly made contact with bat feces, I would think...especially in rural areas...
5
@AGJ Rural people know how to avoid the feces of any animal, I assure you.
5
Jim, I believe you are misleading readers in your comments about bats being essential for pollination of mangoes, avocados, and bananas. Mangoes and avocados are mainly insect-pollinated; their flowers are quite small and hardly provide enough reward for a bat. All commercial bananas are parthenogenic and do not require pollination - it is only the native Asian species that would require pollination, and they produce large, hard seeds that could likely break your teeth if you bit into them. There is a lot of misinformation on bat pollination on various web pages, and many of them mysteriously refer to the "US Forest Service Rangeland Management Botany Program", which I could not find information on and which would hardly be qualified to be reporting on bat pollination anyways. Otherwise congratulations on a fine article. Paul Berry (University of Michigan emeritus botany prof)
54
Thank you for the clarification. Good information.
4
https://www.fs.fed.us/wildflowers/pollinators/animals/bats.shtml
Not hard to find
8
Maybe if people would simply LEAVE BATS ALONE, we would not have these problems. Stay out of their caves, don't capture them to sell live at markets, just let them do their work - which we all profit from - in peace.
289
take a breath Sally . . .
3
@Sally
They eat huge numbers of mosquitoes. Reason enough to leave them alone!
25
I'm extremely disappointed this article didn't mention the role of bats in eating insects. When articles like this stress gaining "knowledge and monitoring of bats" to prevent the spread of their viruses to human beings, and neglect to mention the role of bats in ecology,, it's a mere hop, skip and jump for homo sapiens to decide bats meed to be eradicated. After all, that's our general approach, throughout all of history, to all wild animals--understand and control, then wipe out.
I realize this article doesn't call for the eradication of bats, but people are often stupid about these things, and draw the wrong conclusions because knowledge is always and forever incomplete. Mao caused an ecological disaster with his "Four Pests" campaign. Part of it was to eradicate sparrows, which, in Chinese fashion, was completely effective. The problem was this led directly to the spread of locusts.
118
Fifth paragraph: "they devour disease-carrying insects by the ton, "
18
@Emile Graf 5: "they devour insects by the ton"
10
@Emile It did. And bad that the recommenders didnt read it either
3
This is a wonderfully informative article.
It's unfortunate for the bats that the 19th paragraph, about bats themselves as blameless, rather than human encroachment and predatory behavior, wasn't further up in the column. Reading half the column could inspire the killing of bats out of fear and panic.
Sharks were hunted down in parts of Florida when "Jaws", the movie, came out. Years ago, wild ducks and other migratory wildfowl were slaughtered by the millions in China because of fear of bird virus.
65
Who is eating bats? It doesn't seem like one would make much of a meal.
18
Maybe a appetizer for some, still I don’t understand why anyone would eat a bat. Bats are a necessary evil they keep insects at bay while carrying so many germs and other unhealthy things
2
@Kristen
Ozzy Osbourne.
1
Look up “bay soup”, but not while you’re eating.
2
I appreciated the excellent article. I very much hope that no misplaced antagonism toward bats results from this latest outbreak. As you suggest, it is human encroachment on bat territory that causes problems for ourselves. China needs to permanently ban the cruel practice of trapping and selling wild animals for humans to eat. (Ditto for poor treatment of farm animals.) Some respect for the rights of all living creatures is sorely needed.
175
It seems obvious that if we stop eating animals we'll reduce a lot of new disease risk. Unlike cats, humans are not obligate carnivores. Our systems are designed to function fine on a plant-based diet.
49
@Paul Smith Well humans have been eating meat for thousands of years. Unfortunately you cannot get the entire population to simply stop eating meat. In addition, not everyone agrees that a plant-based diet is most nutritious. Highly processed fake meat also has health consequences. Certain people with anemia rely on red meat for source of iron that is more easily absorbed than plants. I think the key is to raise animals humanely and stop cramming them all in factories.
23
False. Where did you get these claims? Not at all human “systems” are able to eat just plant based foods. Many bodies need animal protein in order to physically, mentally? and emotionally survive.
Let’s not also forget that eating plant based can be emotionally restrictive in humans, causing anxiety, depression, and eating disordered like behavior.
12
@Linda respectfully, the purveyors and customers of these "wet markets" make exactly the same kinds of unsupported health claims; they eat bat soup for it's supposed health effects, ignoring the fact that billions of people around the world live just fine without it, and causing externalities that endanger the rest of us.
Hundreds of millions of people around the world eschew meat their whole lives, and they're fine.
14
Thanks Mr. Gorman, especially for writing a clear-headed article.
To re-emphasize — bats are most dangerous when humans initiate irresponsible contact with them. Untrained people should never purposefully contact bats and most other wildlife. A bat box in your yard is great (and fun!), but don’t touch even dead bodies with bare hands and don’t eat them!
70
I am concerned that there is not enough narrative around eating animals, and especially wild animals, being the cause of these problems. Bat are not the issue, it is human beings' blind consumption of all other species.
230
@Reasonable
What 'problems' are you talking about?
Humans spent the first 290,000 years of their existence hunting and gathering wild fauna and flora.
Humans didn't blindly domesticate animals and plants. to eat.
7
@Reasonable ... it does seem odd that China/USA/WHO know these close contact exotic animal meat markets are a major biological catastrophe in the making, yet very little is being done to change human behavior to address it. There were some good public education campaigns in West Africa with the last Ebola Z. outbreak about not eating "bush meat". While suspected initial transmission for that outbreak, was from a kid playing in a tree that was a bat roost, the risk reward for close contact with exotic animals seems way out of balance in China right now. Maybe the final costs for nCo19 will be enough for the Chinese gov. to take preventive action? Their ongoing and repeated swine flue issues look relatively self inflicted from these practices as well. Hate to say it, but, China's meat issues and America's gun issues, seem culturally resistant to life saving needed change.
24
@Reasonable
Do you have a problem with all other life forms consuming any other animal/organism they can for sustenance as well? Or is your "beef" only with humans?
Also, what do you suggest we eat? Presumably plants if I'm reading you correctly. Those forms of life aren't as cute and cuddly which tends to be the unit of measurement for how much were supposed to care.
7
Terrific article. Thanks for making the effort to be so clear, informative and engaging.
32
Just wondering if this "Coronavirus" is a mutant variant of some other virus? Maybe we should be investigating what triggered the mutation, as well as what is spreading the virus. Do bats possess a metabolism that serves as catalyst for mutation?
4
@DMH
The extremely high mutation rates of viruses are not matched by any other organism in the kingdom of life.
The high mutation rates of viruses, coupled with short generation times and large population sizes, allow viruses to rapidly evolve and adapt to the host environment.
This has important implications for the pathogenesis of viral infections.
From sciencedirect.com/topics/neuroscience/virus-mutation
8