The NYT is reporting that Beijing is imposing a 14 day self quarantine to anyone retiring to the city from other cities in China. When will we begin to require those coming in from China to self quarantine? Will our economy suffer that much from their tourist dollars that we’re willing to put public health last?
5
Beyond meat and Impossible burgers are looking better and better!
12
I guess it is time to ban the sale and consumption of wild game in China. But given how the Rhinoceri of the world are going extinct because rich Chinese men think their powdered horns are aphrodasiacs, I hold little hope that the rich in China will comply. I expect these epidemics will happen again and again.
6
If China is building new hospitals that is a red flag. I’m expecting hundreds of thousands of deaths. Pandemic. Like climate change we knew but did NOTHING.
7
I keep wondering what's the big deal? Why is everyone so worked up? The flu is much more prevalent and lethal.
Per the CDC:
While the impact of flu varies,... the CDC estimates that influenza has resulted in between 9 million – 45 million illnesses, between 140,000 – 810,000 hospitalizations and between 12,000 – 61,000 deaths annually since 2010.
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/index.html
7
Canada health experts say when they scanned temperature in airport during sars they didn’t find any sick people. But sick people care in. They think it’s a waste of time. But I see most countries only using temperature scan as defense. This is going to get a lot worse.
1
Things happen. "Keep calm and carry on." Thousands of people die from the flu or its aftermath usually pneumonia annually. So far as the fluctuating market- opportunity for the greedy capitalists.
Life is uncertain.
Frankly, I am more concerned with the electrical grid going out or poisoning of the water supply or Trump selling off more of American public land and making America a horrible place for the poor to live. Disease is much more random.
7
I checked my own medical encyclopedia this morning and found that coronavirus is one of two groups of viruses that can bring on the common cold. The other group is rhinoviruses.
No one seems to mention this fact when they talk hysterically about the epidemic. I asked people in the small town I live in if they knew what a coronavirus was. Not one of half a dozen I asked knew. One women tried to suggest that there was a Drudge report rumor that the virus had been patented? Huh? I told her that didn't make any sense: that diseases can't be patented.
If people are really dying in China in might be helpful if they mentioned their ages. One man in his late 80s died yesterday,apparently, but his death may have been a result of other lung infections and the cold was the coup de grace?
Mass quarantines for the common cold sounds ridiculous.
4
I wish there would be more education promoting hand washing rather than the use of masks and gloves.
A drug store mask serves at best to protect others if one has the virus and is coughing into the mask and at worst adds surface area waiting to infect others. When worn by the non infected person, it offers no protection against becoming infected.
If people are touching the mask with their hands as they inevitably will when taking it off, the mask becomes colonized with all the agents that have been living on the hands. And if they touch their face after that, there wasn't really a point in wearing a mask in the first place. And if the mask is left on a table, it's colonized the table.
The importance of minimizing physical contact, washing your hands repeatedly after touching others and touching surfaces in high traffic places, as well as regular disinfecting of surfaces cannot be overstated.
Resources should be directed to developing a vaccine.
13
The USA should have banned all travel to China of US citizens and all Travel from China other that US citizens returning and they should have been put in a quarantine type of restriction with required health checks and monitoring till cleared. I know these raise questions that may be constitutional in nature but overall public safety is paramount. With today's tech there is NO need to travel there for meetings. All can be done on the internet.
15
As far as I’m concerned, travel to China was never essential. But hey, I’m safely ensconced here in flyover country in a sustainable off the grid home with a view of the Continental Divide. Last year I had four visitors, so a pretty low risk for exposure to Coronavirus.
3
Do you buy products? Do you have electricity? Do you have a bank account? Every libertarian I know has no clue how interconnected we all are.
9
The Chinese can come to the US and go anywhere, buy anything - even your home from out under you - And yet there are many parts of China, in fact most of China, (Tibet and Eastern Turkestan which constitute nearly half the country where Americans either are not allowed at all or are only allowed with a government escort. There is something seriously wrong with this picture. Can you imagine the US government not letting Chinese go to Hawaii because Native Hawaiians want to restore the Hawaiian Monarchy? China has a brutal and murderous dictatorship.
16
@DSD I've travelled through Tibet extensively with my two American friends and yes, our documents were checked several times but we were allowed unrestricted travel. We drove from Katmandu to Lhasa and back and then some sights in between.
I think what China has done with Tibet is an atrocity and I agree with you about China but travel is easily doable.
The further away from democracy, the more problematic a government is.
3
This Coronavirus and the flu are both spread by respiratory airborne droplets, e.g. mainly coughs and sneezes. Every plane, train and bus should have signs urging people to cover their cough or sneeze with their elbow/inner arm or a tissue, with a diagram/illustration of someone doing so, and conductors, drivers and pilots should be making announcements asking people to cover any cough or sneeze with their inside elbow or a tissue. They should be handing out tissues and hand sanitizers at train and bus stations and at airports. People should also be advised to avoid touching their eyes, nose and mouth, especially if they have touched a surface or handrail that is not clean. Wearing a mask can help too, but they may not be available easily now. These simple measures could prevent many cases of illness and should be included in articles and media broadcasts about the spread of this disease.
13
@John Smith
It's not enough. The speed at which a cough or sneeze comes out of you will make sure the passenger sitting next to you becomes sickened, even if you try to cover your face. An airplane is a flying petri dish, delivering some sick chinese passengers to a town near yours.
3
One prominent doctor in China report says there's a possibility of spreading the virus without the evidence of symptoms... a nice healthy looking guy might be a carrier of the virus..just stay vigilant!
7
The NYT did a story on how China’s political system contributed to this getting out of control, but let’s also not forget the fact that they don’t have a free press.
A regime whose basic MO is censorship and propaganda is another important ingredient to this kind of problem getting out of control and becoming bigger than it had to be.
9
I can’t help but notice that when Ebola was raging in Africa, the right wingers were blasting Obama for not banning travel to the US. I don’t seem to hear as much noise about blasting Trump from the right wing.
18
Animal food markets are so last century.
10
Can we really trust the numbers being released by a country that controls the news and social media as China does?
12
@Patrick
I have the same worry. And if we don’t have an accurate read on the situation, we’ll also have a much harder time resolving the issue.
5
Anyone who knows anything about contagious diseases know that they spread in an exponential, or even geometric way.
They do not speed in a linear way.
So when someone says the number of deaths has only “doubled”, they are clearly not being truthful.
I fear the number of deaths is at least 10 times higher than what is reported.
I pray for the Chinese and the rest of us.
11
According to reliable sources online, some 360,000 Chinese students were enrolled here in the 2017-18 academic year.
9
Yes, I called the University of a California President, Janet Napolitano and asked her to please be proactive and protect students vs waiting and needing to react to a major outbreak. I am baffled as to why the US is taking such a hands off approach? What are they waiting for? Fortunately, Schumer is asking the CDC to release funding and not wait until an all out pandemic hits us.
2
The good news is that we got a stable genius to guide us through. NO way he will use this for political, vindictive ends. He's a generous, thoughtful, concerned, decent person that only wants to protect each and ever American.
16
These are warnings from Mother Nature.
We humans have overpopulated large portions of this planet. There will be a reckoning if we don't take our numbers back to a sustainable level.
Are we listening?
17
My hats off to China! Although there were obviously missteps initially in handling this outbreak, the Chinese government has to be commended for quickly mobilizing all its resources to control this crisis. Would the US private sector have allowed our government to shut down or quarantine a population the size of eleven Chicagos in the middle of the Christmas shopping and celebration season, which is what China has done in Wuhan? Would we have been able to build a hospital to accommodate hundreds of patients in 16 hours, which China has done?
There is some positive news. It appears that the incubation period is shorter than the 10-14 days assumed earlier, and that transmission of the disease likely occurs only after the patient is showing symptoms. Earlier we were told that the disease could be transmitted during the incubation period. China’s National Health Commission just issued new guidance on treating this coronavirus. It says “respiratory droplet transmission is the main route of transmission”, but it can also be transmitted through contact. It says “based on current epidemiological investigations, the incubation period is generally 3-7 days, with the longest no more than 14 days”.
11
This could be any of us, anywhere. I would urge anyone reading these articles to think about what if was you, trapped and unable to visit your loved ones? This is global issue and one that should be treated as such. It could be all of us. (As do if not this virus, maybe the next). Here is where we could rise up as people, and help each other out, getting beyond whatever country we happen to to live in.
9
Every where you look personal protective gear is sold out. Just try to buy a surgical mask, gown, gloves, or eye protection.
Don’t worry they can call the manufacturer to get more in. It is a fantasy to think they are going to resupply the USA with the medical equipment they now almost exclusively manufacture, as they need it in China where it is made.
Perhaps another down side to the lost of manufacturing jobs to China. By the way all those medications you take are made there too. We don’t t make squat on the USA any more.
We are the least self sufficient society in the world.
In Wuhan they are pulling together and building two 1000 bed hospitals practically overnight in response to this crisis. We could not pull that off here because Trump has all our construction laborers sequestered at the border.
Well maybe Trump is right and this apocalyptic science is not real either.
9
China has shown itself to be so proficient handling contagious diseases. A model for us to aspire to
The US must be proactive in containing the pandemic. This is one situation when AI can be used to keep track of all passengers returning from China and specially the provinces where the epidemic exploded. Imagine what how quickly the virus can contaminate the public specially in the mass transit systems of our major cities which are magnets for contamination, not to mention restaurants. Ditto, the rest of the world outside China. Imagine the prediction of 60 million casualties
3
It would be nice to know which cities have the 110+ cases of the virus here in the U.S.
No, not street addresses, but whether to be especially careful when out shopping.
3
@Bartolo
There are only five confirmed cases. A total of 110 people were being checked for this virus by CDC's lab (as of January 27th). Of these, five were positive, 32 were negative, and the results for the remaining 73 are still pending.
3
And just when it looked like voting the small government/deregulation Republicans in to office to gut the CDC was paying off.
Turns out we need a robust scientific health community. Who would have thought denying science would be a mistake.
Oh well, with all those tax cuts we will be able to buy all the Made in China surgical mask we need. Assuming they are willing to share given the high tariffs.
23
FDR's famous quote " We have nothing to fear but fear itself" applies here. Influenza deaths number in the thousands annually but many Americans blithely go about the flu season without a flu shot. While I am a doctor I am not an Infectious Disease specialist but I am confident that this virus will be contained by the traditional methods that have conquered prior outbreaks of deadly viruses ( Ebola, SARS); namely quarantine, checking contacts, and eventually a vaccine. The contagion of fear may be more difficult to contain than the virus itself. The CDC is now making available its experts on television and the President has addressed it but if it spreads further, as is likely, further attention may be needed to quiet nerves. Our healthcare system is up to this.
11
The President addressed. Well I guess we are ok then. Greta can stop worrying about climate change too.
8
@alan brown
It is nice that you have such confidence. However, be you doctor or not, I prefer to take reasonable precautions to avoid the disease. I hope my precautions will clearly have been over-reactions when considered in the future in highsight. I prefer to avoid needing your doctoring services. Therefore, I will:
1) Avoid flying
2) Avoid crowded forums like theaters, sporting events, etc.
3) Avoid staying in all hotels, but especially those that cater to international business and government people, and international tourists
4) Stay away from children of school age. If I had kids in school, I would pull them out of school whenever the first case occurs in my community....I would not wait for authorities to close the schools.
5) Wear a mask whenever out in public.
Schools and airplanes are intense disease transmission locations.
4
@alan brown
FDR's famous quote is an example of ingenius jingoism.
But FDR was dead wrong.
I don't mind being wrong. But I would mind being dead or even sick. I'd rather over-react and gain some protection that lazily sit back having confidence in unknown others to come up with everything I will need.
3
In the crucial first days and months of a new disease, leaders and people need to make decisions with incomplete information. You will inevitably over react or under react. Over reacting leads to inconvenience and economic losses. Under reacting can potentially lead to millions of deaths worldwide.
We currently believe that this infection has a 3% mortality rate. 3% of 7 billion means 210 million people dead. I believe the only sane course of action is over reacting, at least till we know more. International travel is not a fundamental human right.
12
The reality is 210 million human deaths out of 7 billion won’t even slow down global warming.
4
Your figure assumes all humans the world over will be exposed to, and contract, the Coronavirus.
@A Cynic Are you saying all 7 billion will be infected?
It important to recognize the brave effort of healthcare workers in
China notwithstanding their leaders and politicians. It is also time to reflect on our own country.
I am in healthcare and I can tell you that right now most hospitals in our major cities are packed because of intense flu activity as well as an unabated opioid crisis. There are approximately a 100 individuals currently undergoing testing for coronavirus and anything more than that would soon overwhelm our system. We cannot build a hospital in 10 days as China did - our regulations would not allow it.
Our hope is that we can develop a vaccine within the next few months. There are a couple of antiviral drugs that have shown some promise and we hope they will be effective.
Short of that we too will be facing a daunting task of isolating large populations but we should learn on what not to do from the China very quickly. Large scale quarantines will be useless. CDC, NIH and State DOHs should issue uniform guidelines in a timely and transparent manner - what is known and unknown. Ensure adequate supplies of essential medical equipment throughout the country. Emergency funds to cover all individuals who are sick from this virus even for those who cannot pay - universal coronavirus care. We got to learn and we cannot afford to panic.
7
Because otherwise, patients who show up at an ER with Coronavirus would be turned away for lack of coverage?
1
Well one thing we could immediately implement is making individuals returning from China to self quarantine for 14 days just like Beijing is doing.
When are our elected officials going to protect us?
6
Would be nice if the Chinese government provided an update on how many people have been infected and how many are dead. Near 3,000 infected and 80 dead was over 24 hours ago. If 50,000,000 are quarantined the human mind will race to the worst outcome. Governments across the world need to demand more from the Chinese government on behalf of all people of the planet.
14
The test needed to confirm the illness as the new Coronavirus is what delays the information. It appears to take time for confirmation due to technical limitations. The US has been testing 110 people but only finished 37 since 1/21 as well I believe they are sending all samples to the CDC for testing. That’s why the Chinese are saying much larger numbers such as 90,000 to over 100,000 are likely affected and more than 106 are likely dead. They can’t test that large of a number right away. That doesn’t mean they are necessarily lying, they can only report confirmed cases that were tested in the laboratories because it’s possible that people had died or suffered from other illnesses such as the flu. This means the actual cases are time lapsed and when you see the numbers it will be a large increase all at once.
7
@Pieter Smit So far, it looks like about 1 death for every 100 people infected. That's enormous. And that's distributed unevenly. For example, it seems that the older you are the greater your chances of dying (not just 1/100).
3
Watch Netflix documentary Pandemic now airing. 1918 flu but potentially much worse.
7
Some thoughts:
1) It is ridiculous and misleading for medical experts to hold themselves out as experts on quarantines and travel bans. Quarantines and travel bans are not medical science. They are exercises of police power and politics.
2) China will probably have a tough time enforcing fully their quarantines since the quarantined area is so large and it is completely bordered by land. Therefore there are innumerable places for sneaking out by simply walking out.
3) There is a huge difference between a travel ban and a quarantine. A quarantine keeps people in whereas a travel ban keeps people out. Keeping people out is something that is done by nearly everyone, every day. We keep people out of our homes etc.
4) A travel ban prohibiting people from entering the US who have been in China during the prior 30 days is easy to enforce. We are separated by oceans on both coasts so the only way to arrive is plane or boat. Either way they must go through one of just a few ports of entry. Passport records show where they have been even if they are not arriving directly from China.
5) Trump should have imposed a travel ban 5 days ago. It is still not too late since we so far have only a tiny number of cases and all are people who came from China, not any transmitted by them to our domestic population. Even when some do start to show up, we have a good chance to contain the outbreak if we stop more disease from arriving from China.
15
Yes! Beijing is making individuals returning from other parts of China to self quarantine for 14 days. We should be doing the same.
4
Xi Jin-ping and his Zhongnanhai war criminals are worse than the Wuhan coronavirus. The same may also be true with Lying Trump and his GOP traitors through their fixed Senate Impeachment trial.
23
@Chinh Dao
Add to that the darn Supreme Court appointing George W Bush at the request of his brother the Governor. And McConnell ignoring Supreme Court nominee Garland for 10 months. Rules, what rules? It is whatever you can get away with, however you can cheat, money talks, even at the highest levels. What a crooked government we have in the US! And short-sighted voters who do not realize where this will lead us.
1
Greta and AOC may get their lower green house gasses after all
10
I'm comforted knowing our science-hating president and his supporters are at the helm. No worries, all fake news. Where's my anti-vaxxers?
37
@Ed
The anti-vaxxers are still here,they just believe that this is a disease in a far away land and they won’t get it cos:USA,USA
3
@Ed
Ha imagine your own mother shoving this anti-vaccination theory down your throat? How can you argue with your own mother? My mother insists that
the flu vaccine will give me cancer. And that Bill Gates is responsible for the latest epidemic in China. It's all manufactured illness so that Bill Gates can control the world. I'm ashamed and really embarrassed by this opinion. This is what the Internet has caused. A proliferation of fake news which ordinary people and non-specialists in the field of medicine will subscribe to since they are scared to death of losing their wealth to a simple virus that is no more virulent (let's hope) than the simple Influenza that kills how many Americans each winter? Hahaha it's laughable how certain she is that the latest epidemic was started by Bill Gates. What an embarrassment to me since I work for a world class medical school and I know that we have a lot of virologists working here who know a lot about viruses. So they should be the first people to consult during an epidemic, because they have year and years of training!
Bring back Ellis Island, only for health reasons, mind you.
4
@Ozma My grandfather and his two cousins came through Ellis Island. One of my grandfather's cousins became ill on the ship in route to the US and was not allowed to disembark when the ship arrived. My grandfather and one cousin stayed in New York while the other cousin returned home.
1
I suspect the ACLU and immigration advocates are preparing to defend the rights of sick people to come to the United States without restriction.
To do less would be unAmerican.
17
@Willt26
Diseases have Constitutional rights. And anti-discrimination laws protect diseases. We may even face political effort to mandate a minimum quota for disease immigration.
5
Well I am all for ACLU doing their job and protecting citizens, but will pull my hefty annual contribution if they put my health at risk. The health that allows me to run a successful business and make that contribution.
1
The Center for Disease Control (CDC) estimates that the annual number of flu deaths has been about 36,000 in the United States, and 250,000 to 500,000 deaths worldwide. The number of fatalities per cases of influenza is quite low.
Of this recent coronavirus we know little yet. The ratio of deaths per cases of this new coronavirus cannot be known, because we cannot know how many people have already been infected. This is due to the nature of the virus: people can be infected, asymptomatic, and carriers of the virus for two weeks, and we cannot know how many infections there have been because there could have been many cases that have come and gone without diagnosis. In sum, it is too early to know whether this coronavirus is any more deadly that the common flus that we contract every year.
Just as the stock markets are reacting in a volatile way to daily news, people and governments are currently panicking at every news release about the coronavirus. It may turn out that this new strain of virus is more lethal than what we usually experience. On the other hand it may turn out not to be such a "pandemic" after all is said and done. The human race appears to be developing into a mob that panics at the slightest signal, whereas the background signal concerning the global warming catastrophe is being ignored by vast swaths of people and governments.
9
@D M A very early estimate is 3% mortality compared to around 0.1% for the flu.
8
@D M
So we don't have full information of the magnitude of the threat. So what? Should we just sit here and pray that god protects us? Or, should we take precautions to keep the disease out, to find a cure or at least a very good treatment, and to find a vaccine.
You can sit there and pray if you like. But I say let's do all that we can to keep it out and to defeat it as it arises here. I will let you calculate how bad it would have gotten if we don't do those things.
7
@Errol D M never said that governments should stand by, doing nothing to mitigate the coronavirus. D M wrote that we don’t have enough data yet to predict what will happen.
1
from the article: China has tried to increase infrastructure to deal with infectious disease,
“But they apparently didn’t anticipate something so sudden, so acute, and so tremendous,”
Outrageously disingenuous. The Chinese know darn well their habits of terrible, profoundly disturbing animal husbandry and disgusting hygiene in food markets directly caused the SARS outbreak, and now here we are again. not to mention all the new varieties of influenza they pump out.
Unless China decides to join the rest of the world and stop these barbaric practices for good they will continue to be known as the world’s pathogen cesspool.
Is that really the legacy they wish to have?
33
The media's coverage is making this worse, it's stressing me out at least, that's for sure.
Can we please have some coverage/information about:
Who and how the virus kills people?
Are there specific demographics of people who die from it? What are the chances of dying if you contract it?
Do the masks actually work?
Is there a diet fix?
Is there anything we can do?
Do we stay out of the local Chinatown?
Is everyone infected Asian?
Should we stay home?
Currently, it's just raising the fear level and anxiety as we hear yet another reported case, and we helplessly wait for the next reported case to get closer to us.
8
I don't want to sound alarmist or hysterical, and I know China has halted outgoing tour groups, but many Chinese come to US on tours and some who left China before ban were here recently and may still be here. I live in east midtown near a restaurant that seems to cater almost exclusively to large Chinese tour groups. Sometimes there are lines of them stretching down the block waiting to get in, their tour buses idling nearby. When their meal is over they may linger in the herb shop recently opened next door or go to the Morton Williams supermarket across the street for a look and maybe a purchase of several boxes of powdered mill (go figure). Given the fact that this virus was known to exist in December,not to mention the long incubation period, I wonder if there has been any monitoring of these people and places they have visited or are visiting in US.
15
I fear we in the US have no idea just how vulnerable our ridiculously overpriced US Health Care system is against the next pandemic, due to its haphazard overall coverage, & for-profit (over patient care) incentives.
12
Actually, I don't think keeping us safe in a case like this is totally the responsibility of our overpriced health care system. While everyone has a role to play, I think leadership responsibility/ coordination is with our public health officials. Do we have any such officials at federal level? I know we do at state and local level, at least where I live.
7
@BC except this outbreak occurred in a country with a non-profit, socialized health system.
2
why aren’t we closing the border and inpose travel ban... oh wait that would be inhumane against the sick
13
@CD I imagine it has more to do with economic concerns. America the land of the almighty dollar.
8
@CD
Ask Trump why he hasn’t closed the border. Ask why the republicans haven’t ask for closing the border.
Aside from the cruelty of it all, an international body should be formed to regulate wild animals being consumed as food in third world countries to prevent new viral strains. The consumption of apes in Africa gave rise to HIV, and now the consumption of bats, civets, and other exotic wild animals in Wuhan has given rise to the Corona virus. Better yet, have the world go vegan before it is too late.
21
@Reswob This is why no likes vegans. Now that we know trees talk to each other, have you had a little empathy for them and stopped using paper? Yeah, animal consumption needs to change, but you're just using it as a hindsight platform to push your ideals, not save human lives. That's the cruel part.
6
@Reswob Tell that to the deer hunters in Wisconsin... Not only "3rd world" countries eat wild animals.
If anything good comes out of this, i hope it'll be actual enforcement of illegal wildlife trade. If not enough people cared about endangered species before, maybe a couple millions of humans would finally wake them up.
34
One hundred possible cases now scattered across 22 US states. Very, very alarming.
13
@HotGumption
Out of those, 32 have been tested negative.
1
It would be good to see some finer detail on the fatality rates. It’s reported at around 3% of total cases and that most of the fatalities have been older men with pre existing illness. Since the total case rate covers a broad range of age and all sexes, the slice of the total case load that comprises older ill men might be rather small. If so, recalculating the fatality rate just for older men with pre existing disease might result in a very high number, perhaps close to 50%. That could make it more dangerous than the flu for this specific demographic.
12
@doug mclaren Yep. No country for old men.
So many points come from the left media as well as from the right media in the US on how China is inefficient when dealing with the virus. Some "leading medical experts" are even being doubtful about efficiency of the lockdowns across the country because "too many people already left the city so let the rest go out as well". This is great indeed, that we all have an opportunity to share so many diffirent points on solving the problem. But really, if those medical experts were so productive in drug development as they are in condemning China's efforts we could have the different tally of deaths caused by viruses . Secondly, it is easy to debate the flaws, while being far from the epicenter. But if the same outbreak occured in any highly populated city outside China, the outcomes could be even more severe. When it comes to SARS, there were dozens of deaths among medical personnel in Hong Kong and Toronto, although their medical systems deemed more "advanced" in both cities at that time, when compared to China. So, I believe,instead of continuous criticism there should be a deep cooperation between the authorities around the world and China to prevent the spread of the germ.
11
@Vitali
Yes, there should be ‘deep cooperation’ internationally. But economic and political interests stand in the way. Look at how drugs are approved and sold around the world. You would Have thought medicine would be deeply international, but each country it’s own set of policies and requirements for drugs. For example, drugs information are labeled differently because the US FDA and the EU EMA have different goals. Similarly with global policies on climate change, economic interests and politics stand in the way of deep collaboration. We are defined by our countries, not by our collective human species.
2
@Joanna
"We are defined by our countries, not by our collective human species."
Yeah, but the way human species die is not defined by our countries. So, in some cases, we have to put the deep collaboration above our economic and political interest, since we all live in our common home -the planet Earth.
Yes but because no one in our Siberian President Donald John Trump,Sr.'s White House nor his Cabinet accepts nor understands science nor is known for telling the truth nor knowing the facts.
Nor are they adept at differing them from their fantasies and fictions.
26
My theory on the spread of this disease is that it may have first started with the pigs in China. About three to four months ago over 100 million to 120 million pigs were supposedly put to death due to infection
Why and how the pigs got infected is still undecided. Well before these pigs were put to their death my guess is that a large supply were not put down and that is why this new disease became a derivative and stretched to other live stock and now can be spread through the air. Pigs were also diseased in North Korea. China may have to investigate the North Koreans to find out any modifications made. After the infection China is really showing a very weak system for they are used to bring dictated to outside of consumption and saving. This is why the average Chinese family tries to save as much as possible. This is the tip of the ice berg and travel internationally should be stopped immediately until investigations are completed.
12
@Ralph Petrillo
Pigs? What about the theory that this virus came from an experiment gone wrong at a high security virology research area that Wuhan has? Research on bioterrorism gone wrong? Who knows.
1
What has already transpired is now irrelevant. Why is the US not placing controls on travelers from China? This is not about bias; it would be prudence.
30
"China’s efforts to contain the spread of the disease by keeping tens of millions of people corralled in the major cities in Hubei Province have drawn skepticism from some experts in public health and epidemiology"
At this point it makes no difference to the rest of the world whether the Chinese are doing enough to contain the spread of this illness or not, they have already exported this illness to the outside world
Unfortunately, there is no vaccine available to protect against this virus known as 2019-nCov. I don't know how the CDC is going to handle this epidemic if it spreads in this country. As per CDC 110 people in this country are being evaluated at this time
The U.S. government was racing Monday to evacuate Americans from the city (Wuhan) at the center of the deadly coronavirus outbreak in China.
At least 81 people have died in China from this new virus, there are unconfirmed claims from anonymous health workers in China that many thousands more than their government is acknowledging could already be infected. We will never know the truth from the Chinese government, this is a tragedy for China and for the world.
14
@Padman
The government isn't evacuating private Americans now, rather, the evacuation effort is for diplomats and their families, with some left over seats for private citizens.
I have family in Wuhan right now, and I have read that there are about 1000+ Americans there. The scheduled plane only has 250 seats. I contacted the Department of State several times regarding the evacuation, so far I wasn't aware of plans to evacuate private citizens.
The whole city is locked down, no private cars to central area, no public transportation. With the number of deaths rising, I am extremely concerned.
1
I received an email from the State Department Saturday, telling me that they were arranging “limited” transportation for private citizens, with information how to register. The flight is scheduled for January 28.
Calm down. The death rate is about 3%. This is not the plague that will ravage humanity; that comes later.
27
@Richard Schumacher
3% for now. Unknown when the virus mutate. No, do not calm down. Remain on alert but don’t panic. This is serious.
6
In the potential second term.
1
@Richard Schumacher 3% is huge, for a death rate. But I agree: calm down.
1
While it’s easy to blame the Chinese for their lack of sanitary habits when it comes to wet markets and the selling of exotic foods, I think the spread of the virus could be blamed largely on the political landscape.
There was absolutely NO SENSE OF EMERGENCY during the first few phases of the virus. This could have been limited, but it seems that the communist party only cares when there are already alarm bells ringing everywhere.
I can only empathize with the Chinese on this pandemic as I am sure no one is deserving to be wiped out because of a disease they were not aware of.
In fact, I don’t think majority of them are educated on the consequences of exotic animal consumption. Despite it being a “cultural” problem I feel like this could have been prevented had the Chinese known the hazards. Some of the wildlife they consume are just barbaric to be honest.
May god bless the Chinese, and everyone else.
19
@Bianca
It might be harder than you think to convince the Chinese to stop eating exotic animals, which are thought to confer significant health benefits. It would be like trying to convince anti-vaxxers in this country that children need shots. When convictions take deep root, the shoots are hard to eradicate.
5
The Chinese government should spend more time and money on the health and well-being of its citizens instead of trying to control them.
It should also stop trying to colonize the world with its One Belt One Road initiative.
13
Everyone in China received free health care. US is the nation that invades other nations with bombs and other weapons of mass destruction.
17
@Zejee then surely you should move to the country with better healthcare. Why don't you?
5
Is the efficient health system also responsible for the deaths of 81 people and counting? Ironic how all the deaths has just occurred only in China.
3
Mother Nature always wins. Perhaps she’s decided we are overpopulated and on the edge of extinction. We have too many people & are draining the world’s resources.
I’m rooting for Mother Nature.
26
@Weary Liberal Here are some facts for you to consider as you wring your hands about human overpopulation and being on the edge of extinction:
- World poverty is significantly lower now than at any time in history;
- Average life-span is much higher globally than at any time in history;
-Access to clean water, dependable energy, and healthcare across the globe is at an all-time high;
-Deaths from disease and natural disasters are lower now than at any time in human history.
-Deaths from war at are significantly lower today than at any time in the last few hundred years.
By all means, Google all of the above and see for yourself.
8
@Weary Liberal
if you really feel that way why are you still here? The fact that you are writing comments shows you’d at lest like to stick around a little, and therefore have a shred of optimism.
The corona virus may be the demographic bombshell that the planet needs to shrink its overwhelming population, now out of control at over 80 million new humans per annum. If it succeeds in decimating China, who in the USA or elsewhere would really care? Until it surfaces in their neighborhood, of course.
12
@Tournachonadar
It has already surfaced in this country and students who returned to China for college break will be back soon, if they are not already. What does the US do about that?
8
"The Chinese health care system strains to serve patients even under normal circumstances. Those weaknesses are most pronounced in the poorer areas of China" -- The exact same thing can be said of the US health care system.
46
“But the country’s political weaknesses can have serious consequences for the world. Disease and pollution don’t respect borders, so a unified national policy is typically needed to prevent or stop them.”
Good news, in 2019, China installed more renewable energy capacity than any country in the world for the 4/5 years straight.
18
I woke up at 3:15 am this morning with a horrible thought.
How much confidence can we have with President Trump as our leader that he would have a clue how to use his:
1. Presidential Leadership, Competency, and Political Experience to marshall U.S. government resources and talent to move in quickly to try to contain an epidemic or pandemic. Note: Scientists working for our Trump government have been resigning/leaving/retiring in droves, according to the Washington Past last week
2. Positive Role Modeling and Demeanor to calm the U.S. population and inspire us to do the right thing and comply with the necessary measures to contain the epidemic.
3. Track Record of Honesty and Truthfulness to give us citizens the confidence and trust that he is telling us the truth about the spread of the virus, its seriousness, and how best to deal with the epidemic.
4. Or does President Trump even care, and is he preparing to handle the possibility of an epidemic/pandemic killing many citizens? Or, is he too busy obsessing about himself, his impeachment, and getting even with his many perceived enemies?
My guess is Trump will he treat this epidemic just like he has been treating the threat and reality of climate change.
Contemplate that stock market!
73
Trump has overturned every environmental safeguard that was put in place before he took office. How can anyone be happy about that?
44
@PB
I would not count on trump to do anything either compétant or caring.
He would hide somewhere with his stepford family and send out tweets blaming Obama for the virus.
53
Oh ye of little faith. Trump is not the sun the moon and the stars. Dont let the TDS cloud logic. The CDC has plans to deal with these kinds of things despite who is in in power.
5
When there is an actual crisis that requires innovation for a solution, note it is the US biotech/Pharma sector to which people look, not the NIH or Denmark. It will be well to remember this as progressives continue their assault on US companies.
14
Aren’t progressives going after lying, corrupt politicians and drug peddling big pharma types such as the Sackler family. Progressives like innovation and opportunity when done with transparency.
34
@LTJ
You mean the US government that funds such research which they profit off of?
Feel free to post your hypothesis that only in the US a solution will be researched. The for profit system sure has been good at killing our citizens by hooking them on legalized opioids.
27
Seriously? That is ridiculous / assault on American companies ? That charge how much for medicine ? How much profit do they make per year off of our illness?
I lived in Nepal for two months. I still have a stock pile of antibiotics and burn cream I got for ten dollars. It would be hundreds here. I know it.
It’s obscene. Do not deflect from the rampant greed in this industry.
35
The mainland Chinese corona virus reveals the gross incompetence, negligence and governance of the CCP in protecting the health and welfare of not only its people but of hundreds of millions of Asians and non-Chinese worldwide. In 2006, it was warned that China’s wildlife markets were "poorly managed and insanitary" and were “a dangerous source of possible new infections". This came from a leading expert.
It is so ironic that Chinese Communist leaders have been distracted, worried and concerned that Chinese society might be “infected” or “contaminated” by Western values and ideals. Instead, Xi Jinping ignored the real threats to its people.
The corona virus was preventable and avoidable. China should have learned from previous pandemics in China (especially SARS in 2003). It clearly did not. Maybe this time will be different. But if it’s failure to protect its own domestic pig population from African Swine Flu (a virus) is instructive, future prospects are dismal.
So if Xi Jinping is afraid of Western values, we should be terrified by what the CCP does NOT value, such as human health, governance, transparency, truthfulness and being a responsible member of the world community. Xi should be concerned about his own future. Rightfully so.
348
@Charlie Chan So, if a contagious disease originates from the Republic of China, then I suppose it would be fair game to be terrified of Taiwan, its president at the time, and it's governing party.
8
@Charlie Chan
Anti-Sinoism at its most virulet. That’s all this comment is.
First, China’s response to this crisis has extraordinarily fast and effective. I’d like to see the US build a hospital in 15 days. And closing off Chicago would work about as well as catching sand with a net.
Second, anyone who tried to use Hurricane Katrina to attack the legitimacy of the US government clearly has no interest or concern for the victims, but is just a hater trying to twist a tragedy for political propaganda. The exact same principle applies here.
41
@Mary
Well said.
Are there lessons to be learned from the initial handling of the outbreak? Yes. Are there weaknesses in the Chinese system that helped the rapid spread of the this coronavirus? You bet. But to completely dismiss the Chinese government’s response and its effort to contain the spread is just ridiculous. It is just irrational and illogical ranting.
20
Looks like Greta and AOC will get their emissions reduction after all
19
@Nycdweller
They already got them. No flights, no cars in Wuhan and other places.
2
Let’s see: 3,000 infected with this virus from China.
6,000 dead from this year’s flu season in the US.
somebody, please: what am I missing here?
4
Less is known about the transmission of this new flu. Also, no vaccine is available for prevention as is available for some strains of known flu viruses. That doesn't mean the novel flu is worse or more dangerous, but only time will tell.
3
@unreceivedogma
Statistics on coronavirus have just begun to be recorded. The flu has
been around for months. Perhaps this is what you are missing.
9
@unreceivedogma Antibodies, vaccine, and oh yeah, the source of it being wildlife humans have no business eating!
2
So the Trump administration has no problem throwing grade school children in cages, but the FAA is still allowing people into the country whose trips originate in Wuhan? Since people can be asymptomatic but contagious, how does a simple temp check protect the public? Is Trump afraid of offending the Chinese Communist Party all of the sudden? His BFF Kim Jong Un suspended cross-border traffic into North Korea, Trump won't do the same?
15
If it is true that Wu chan died and 112 000 people were burned and millions are infected, then logic tells me that only a biohuel weapon can do that.Why would they immediately close hermetically cities for 3 people and declare quarantine .
‘The State Department said it had chartered a flight to take consular staff members and other American citizens to San Francisco from Wuhan on Tuesday.’
So what happens when they arrive in SFO? Are they going to impose mandatory quarantine like France?
13
@Concerned SF Resident -- They are supposed to be held in quarantine for 14 days on a California Military Facility. My concern is what happens when someone decides that they don't want to be quarantined for 14 days and leaves ? It took only one person to start the Captain Trips pandemic !
@Concerned SF Resident
I live 15 min from SFO! :(
We need to hold all entries into the USA from China. I doubt Trump will have the courage to do this; however, it is the only way to reduce the risk.
9
@Philip W - You mean stop all shipping of products from China to your store? Those ships are not run on autopilot.
4
@Philip W that would be considered inhumane
1
While China may have enacted a lock-down too late, we in the US are not mandating quarantines at this point for people who have come into contact with the confirmed ill, those who have returned from Wuhan in the last few weeks, nor those who have come in contact with those returning from Wuhan in the last few weeks. This doesn't seem wise of us considering that we suspect people who have no signs/symptoms may be infectious, and that it may take up to 2 weeks for a person to develop signs/symptoms. Think about all of the people you come into contact with in 2 weeks time!
5
"The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated"
Mahatma Ghandi
There's a tendency to view the autocratic Chinese government as the prime mover of repeat pandemics. Of ignoring safe practices for it's population. I see the Chinese people working in tandem. They choose to disrespect their environment and all it encompasses time and time again. They demand live animal markets and uphold archaic superstitions. They repeatedly choose to put everything at risk. They turn a blind eye to extinction. Thailand, Vietnam, Indonesia and many others are responsible as well. The US and its tenacious, greedy industrial complex is guilty on a massive scale. I shudder to think how this will end.
9
The Chinese authorities appear to have traced the origin of the virus to the wild game sold in the Wuhan open-air markets. So why has this trafficking not been closed down permanently throughout China, instead of just temporarily? I understand that there’s a cultural issue involved—the deep-rooted Chinese belief that eating exotic wild animals confers health benefits. (Oh, the irony!) Repeatedly, however, this practice has resulted in the transmission of human-to-animal pathogens. Therefore, to continue to allow the sale and consumption of wild game under any circumstances seems the ultimate human folly.
13
@Drusilla Hawke
They used to eat humans on islands in the Pacific. Not sure what they thought the benefits of this were. But the practice was stopped. No reason why the same cannot be done with eating bats, rats and other wild animals potentially harboring deadly diseases.
1
This not an unexpected pandemic unraveling. That 1.5 Billion people handle and eat feral and wild animals, the likelihood of disease transference is 100%. Modern transportation ensures spreading the contagion faster than the one begun in 1918. Yes the Chinese want to be Number One by 2025 and they just may get there through the same means that brought down the Roman Empire.
3
@ladps89
Agreed except we are all the Roman Empire. Look at Trump’s son, happily shooting endangered species. Until we are willing to realize that we’re not, globally, a superior animal, we will all suffer. get beyond “China” and “Australia” and the “US”. There is only one planet.
Its difficult to reconcile the modern day China and the China of old with open markets and unhygienic processes.
When we forget that the world doesn't share the same concern about cleanliness , health care we are remember that disease is far from being conquered. It the right mixture that gives us ebola and this disease in China that is spreading across the world.
In order to stop these epidemics we all have tp get on the me page. Countries need to prioritize health care and do everything that brings them into a society where people are just not becoming ill. Upgrade their farmer markets.
Tourist trips to Egypt, the Middle East, the public bathrooms are petri dishes of disease. It doesn't have to be that way. Countries want tourist money then tourist should feel comfortable every place they travel and not worry about becoming ill /
USA travel needs to clean up their sites and there are plenty of places where hook worm is a part of life. Across this country , get off the main highway our politicians need to get busy
Measle vacinations should be routine at this time and we all need to start thinking not only about ourselves but the world. There are diseases that we are not even aware of that are waiting to strike and as the world we are not prepared. Fancy words are not going to save lives, quality medical care for all will. In China Using standard construction vs cheap quality that will collapse as their schools have in the past.
5
I think that there may be more to worry the stock market then Cronavirus. The stock market has been looking for a reason to correct.
4
OK, Everybody panic. Especially those of you who did not get a flu shot because you believe you can get the flu from it.
4
@Alan Snipes
Well if you got the flu shot great, but should you encounter H1N1 it’s really not going to be any help. You might want to panic a wee bit.
2
@Alan Snipes Sorry but the flu shot will not prevent this virus.
2
@Alan Snipes
You do understand that this is an entirely different type of flu, and one that is perplexing health experts??
1
The only profitable business ' market' that our Siberian President Donald Trump cares about is the Trump Organization.
By failing to declare, disclose and divest his personal assets into a blind-trust you can't tell where Trump Organization Mar-a- Lago ends and Trump Administration White House begins.
4
Whereas it is a great news for the American diplomats and some lucky citizens who will be evacuated from Wuhan soon in the next few days, I heard that they might fly into San Francisco International Airport but there will not be quarantine.
2
@John I had heard that they were going to be quarantined in a California Military facility for 14 days before being allowed to go home.
Remembering the many stories of immigration here in our nation, I recall quarantines of immigrants were routine sometimes as the passengers were screened for health, and a normal precautionary logical thing to do. I would never propose imprisoning immigrants or in this case, travelers, but I don't think a two week quarantine of incoming people would be too much of a hardship. I would certainly comply.
Those coming here should be educated on the importance of self isolation during the possibly contagious asymptomatic time they may be a carrier of the disease for the greater good of everyone. It's a matter of personal responsibility everyone should consider, not be forced into. Simply tell passengers, they would save other lives.
2
@PATRICK
Why should they not be forced? I value my life enough to ask.
3
I would lay odds that this epidemic did not just emerge from a meat market and into the most vulnerable populations. I would bet that it spun up in the schools undetected, like many flu and parainfluenza outbreaks do. How would this be possible? Well, you can't test for something that you don't know is there, and nobody gets tested unless they are hospitalized or dead. This very well may have infected young people first, who presented with "flu-like" symptoms and recovered. A survey of school attendance records would either support or refute this theory. It should be looked into - because if this did proceed like a flu epidemic, then it is probably more widespread than any quarantine can contain.
2
My friends in China, who are not in Hubei province nor a province adjacent to it, are reporting via videos on WeChat that the streets are empty, and that protective masks are sold out, as are vegetables. They are also complaining about the censorship of seemingly benign posts about the virus. I'm not sure what to make of the situation, which is what happens when nobody can trust the official sources of information, i.e. the Chinese government.
38
I can understand the Chinese government wanting to censor information from civilians in regards to the epidemic, as people have a tendency to create mass hysteria over false/inaccurate information. It’s not like they’re trying to hide the fact that there’s an outbreak, so it’s more likely they’re trying to keep the peace and order while the Chinese government works to contain the spread of the virus.
3
You are too subjective, evil people spread false information trying to make a panic, thats when the censorship comes in. The internet is full of nonsense we have to think carefully before we can make the judgement.
2
Finally a rational mind !
Let's not forget to note the importance for governments to be factually correct and not give-in to spin, both at the national and international tiers.
For when governments are no longer factually correct, mistrust and misinformation thrives, thus hampering decision-making efforts.
A virus does not care about your political leanings; it is just chemically programed for survival and sustainability.
9
Fatalities seem to have been three percent, so far. Given the populations where the disease has been detected, the fatalities could amount to very high numbers.
8
Given a less than thorough analysis of the comments to this article and the others that have proceeded it I have come to the conclusion that we should: lockdown the affected cities, not lockdown the affected cities, ban travel from China, not ban travel from China, blame the Chinese government and/or people, not blame the Chinese government and/or people, expect the Spanish flu redux, not expect the Spanish flu redux, panic, not panic, and so on. The air of authority in which some of these opinions have been presented is remarkable. Likewise the ignorance of some is staggering. I don’t know where the truth lies and apparently most of you lot don’t either.
20
Americans should be careful to tone down the 'holier than thou' attitude towards this outbreak especially when the so called 'experts' in the article even have varied options about quarantine. (Of course quarantines are not 100% effective but it's better than nothing.) The US has plenty of its own issues from e coli contamination to lack of clean drinking water due to fracking with plenty of dis-information from the government as well. Also, let's remember that this is the birth place of the anti-vaxer movement as well.
Instead of blame, maybe we should spend more time on how to partner with the Chinese to help this situation.
If you've been to a US airport and on a flight in the past few weeks you realize just how ill prepared we are in the US to face this potential. Many not even covering their mouths when coughing or sneezing, lack of hand washing, etc.
31
@Casual Observer
Best reply sofar. It could be any country anywhere. We aren’t Chinese or Russians or whatever we are PEOPLE. This is a chance for us to rise above, dig in, and do our bit. Whatever that might entail. Granted, Americans might not like the fact that Pangolins, Rhinos and Tigers are sold on the Chinese black market, or that caged and mistreated wild animals are on the menu, but do you see where your meat comes from or what it goes through or what pandemic may be next?
1
I read POTUS said he had a plan for this potential disaster moving forward. Anyone know what it is yet? Does he know what it is yet? A nervous mind wants to know.
6
@Jay He's building wall. Remember?
6
14 day incubation?
Isn’t the normal flu several days?
2
Coronavirus is not an influenza...
3
CDC says this coronavirus has short incubation period, 3-5 days. (Which is actually helpful.)
1
I'm not confident that Donald Trump can a manage a crisis of this magnitude the way that Barack Obama ably handled the Ebola outbreak some years ago. This will take interagency coordination and our agencies and their leadership have been more than decimated by the failed casino operator now portraying our president on television.
30
@AJ
That’s funny. As if Obama did it all by himself. There are written protocols for just this type of scenario with the same teams on alert. Trump has proven to be more timely responding to natural disasters than the last 2 administrations. When we had wildfires in Texas Obama & FEMA ignored calls for help up to 90 days. I feel better with Trump because he gets things done, which is his best quality.
1
Given the veracity of Chinese government representations, it’s very suspect and would appear reasonable given the context and apparent circumstances to proceed cautiously.
1
Frankly, I’d trust the Chinese government over the current gang of pathological liars in the current US government. I’m surprised Trump hasn’t labeled the viral outbreak a hoax, Poompeo heralded it as some biblical sign of the coming rapture, or Kellyanne Con-way called it an alternative epidemic.
7
I’m a little concerned, not going to lie.
Rumors that this started in a biowarfare facility were reported in the Washington Times. I would have dismissed it but the Chinese governments reaction seemed extreme given the initial information. The flu is supposedly deadlier and I don’t see cities being walked off for that....
Don’t want to paranoid. Don’t want to spread fear.
.... but NYT please explain the discrepancy and weigh in on the rumors.
21
I read the WT article and consider it irresponsible journalism at its best. They presented not one iota of evidence for a leak. The animal market is more believable given the presence of wild animals, livestock and humans in a confined space with little controls. I do think the virus was in the general population for awhile before health authorities recognized it. Pneumonia in the elderly is not uncommon. If a person can be an asymptomatic carrier for up to two weeks that is a huge problem.
20
@GWE
Responsible media outlets don't "weigh in" on rumors... if the WT's mentions this angle it is bc some (cough) are stirring up paranoid chafe absent facts. They aren't giving credence to the rumors. The WTs is telling us that some fearful people are feeding the fear cycle with rumors. If you don't want to spread fear and paranoia, then don't do it. There appears to be more than one contagion loose now...
7
@mmk There are infected that had no connection to the animal market.
2
It’s only a novel pathogen, which can spread asymptomatically through aerosolized body fluids, emerging at a point in time when antibiotics are beginning to lose their efficacy due to widespread over-use.
How big a deal could this ‘crown-virus‘ possibly be? The Spanish Flu only killed every third person on the planet.
4
@ubique
antibiotics wouldn't work on this virus anyway. And every third person on the planet was infected with the Spanish flu, but not every infected person died (although it was still quite significant--10-20% death rate of those infected)
22
@ubique
I don’t believe antibiotics work on viruses do they?
8
@Mathias You are correct.
The United States is one of the most highly segregated countries on the planet. The odds of an American of any ethnicity other than Chinese contracting this virus is basically .00000000000001%.
It’s astonishing how many Americans are so terrified of a virus that is thousands of miles away, but they’re completely unconcerned with the fact that there is fentanyl and fracking fluid in their drinking water and cadmium and silicon nanoparticles in the air they are breathing.
62
There are dozens of suspected cases across the USA, the virus is already there, and spreading.
3
@Austin Ouellette
I agree with you about the lack of outrage by the American public over the contamination of our air and water, and the spread of lethal substances by corrupt corporations and government regulating entities. Our government has failed us.
In regard to the various influenzas that land is the U.S. every year, almost all of them come from South East Asia. They make the trip to the U.S. efficiently and most are deadly for at least part of the population, especially children and the elderly. Others may affect healthy adults.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/that-flu-you-caught-it-ca/
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/4135122/ns/health-infectious_diseases/t/asia-traditional-cradle-influenza/#.Xi9dRC2ZNjc
@Austin Ouellette it’s typical main stream media and of course, the government at work, keep them in fear and people will do anything they want.
4
In marketing, stratified advertising is used to target an audience whose members share certain traits and who are most likely to actually purchase a particular product. The
common characteristics of this audience match the product traits that are very effective in differentiating, selling and enjoying the product. With this simple paradigm, consumer data is often used to design many internet sales campaigns to better match the audience and marketing message.
The coronavirus seems to work similarly. It seems to be especially effective in targeting stratified samples of the elderly, and their decreased lung capacities; and their older, less effective immune systems. Also, other individuals with opportunistic infections that tax their immune systems seem vulnerable to this virus. And, males seem to be more vulnerable to this virus than females.
Perhaps the coronavirus just emphasizes anew how vital the delivery and exchange of O2 for CO2 via the lungs is to human health. And, how influenza, smoking, and obesity can all, individually and as an interrelated group, degrade this critical respiratory system.
[01/27/2020 M 2:48 pm Greenville NC]
4
I know Wuhan well - spent much time there with their health leaders. The Chinese health authorities in Wuhan are very capable, which will make this outbreak better managed than if it had occurred in many other places (including many places in the US). However, Wuhan is essentially the world's largest university town, with about 1 million university students, most of whom probably started traveling outside of Wuhan before travel was banned to be with their families during the Chinese holidays. The timing is what is making this so horrific for the Chinese.
The reflex of people to travel away from the Wuhan area is probably a bad reaction for them and for all of us. Best to isolate one's self away from sick people and take universal precautions with all humans, rather than to get out in public and travel on trains and airplanes.
The US is poorly prepared for these types of outbreaks, as Congress wishes to micromanage the CDC budget, which has been stripped of flexibility to manage the next outbreak. Congress tends to fund weeks to months after the next outbreak instead of funding baseline funds to prepare. CDC leaders have warned about this problem for decades, and hopefully soon Congress and the American people will listen before the "big one" hits.
296
@Edwin influenza and parainfluenza epidemics tend to build up in schools among young people who recover before they start killing medically challenged and elderly people. These universities might have built the epidemic before it was recognized as a novel virus.
3
@Edwin Absolutely. Remember when two American health care workers contracted Ebola treating one patient? Meanwhile, a mixture of international and African medical staff treated thousands of patients in makeshift tents and about 10 of them got sick? I had a hospitalized family member here in Canada contract c-diff and MRSA in hospital. When will we Westerners get over ourselves?
5
@Edwin
The Wuhan medical authorities you encountered may be capable, but they are living in a country where they have zero autonomy of action. Information flows towards the top, the top issues directives and the people at the lower level execute the directive. Period.
This is the reason why (per the published Lancet articles from Friday) someone started investigating the cluster of suspicious illnesses, but nothing was really done for about 2-3 weeks, resulting in disaster.
As the mayor of Wuhan said today, he reported the findings up the chain of command, but the chain did not issue directives guiding action and response for a while. The result if what we see now.
7
It feels like with all the information the US has, it’s playing a very reactionary role to the virus. Kinda waiting until things get ugly. For instance, the LA case was a person returning to Wuhan—who did he infect since we know the virus can be transmitted before symptoms show up? Or are they keeping us in the dark like the Chinese government does? Our government and public institutions need to be proactive like other countries are doing. I read that France is bussing citizens out of Wuhan and doing a waiting period before flying them to France in contrast the US is flying citizens directly to SF, how about if they don’t have symptoms and are carriers of the virus?
10
@LP I live in China for the past 15 years. I totally disagree with your statement about the Chinese government trying to keep people in the dark. I don’t think any government could match the Chinese in mobilizing efforts to prevent the spread. No way could the US government act with this speed. While I enjoy reading the NYT and support it with my years of subscription, I find its stance on China too negative. Where is the balance in reporting???
7
They let the horse out of the barn early on in Wuhan and there is no putting it back after the fact.
8
Trump offers to give China all the help they need to fight the corona virus, which is a good and generous thing on his part, but gives and offers nothing to help our United States citizens in Porto Rico in their time of desperate need. What does that tell you about Trump? He's a conniver and is not to be trusted.
26
More than the disease it is panic that will cause immense problems. My suggestion is for the chinese govts. to set up pop up booths In each neighborhood, that dispense hot medicinal teas in disposable cups. There are plenty of herbs that can help people feel better. Boiled herbs, less chance of infection, makes people believe that the govt. cares and gives people hope that the tea might help. Chinese star anise, lots of thyme, galangal root, ginger, lavender, throw in the gamut. Make it mild so it does not interfere with medications. Ask other countries for help. Ask for cleaners, wipes that can be distributed to the populace. Get people from uninfected regions to volunteer to cook and distribute vegetarian foods. Offer incentives to people volunteering instead of silly threats.
With the proposed cuts to the CDC, may I point out anyone voting republican is decidedly myopic. Rich, rebellious and very dead does no one any good. Please vote blue in 2020, else we might be brewing homemade teas to combat this virus right here too.
10
We have seen this show before, swine flu, SARS, Ebola, it seems this time every year some epidemic threatens to wipe out the human race, The panic is always 10 times more dangerous than the disease itself. The sad part is that so much that should have been done this far into the 21st century has yet to be done . The Flu itself is reaching epidemic proportions on an annual basis. Every public restroom should have motion detection technology built into the water , soap and paper towels. Any place in which thousands of people a day traffic there should be no door handles to touch , even elevators should be voice or motion detector activated . The less things you have to touch the better. Eyes should be protected by eye ware just as the mouth can be protected by a mask. And let’s end the darn handshake. And please keep your distance no need to invade a person personal space during virus season. All of these ideas and other will work to reduce viral contagion. And please keep your sick children at home and don’t send them to school.
11
@Lonnie The reason that many of these outbreaks did not get any worse than they did is because of the uproar and pressure to do something about them. Or would you prefer we do nothing? We must be hyper-vigilant in our new, highly connected world where people move within hours from any part of the planet to the other at all hours of the day.
3
China's going to do what it's going to do.
So are the markets.
The important thing now is to focus on preserving the health of the populations we can help, both in the US and abroad. As with climate disruption, the US must lead the entire world in fighting a developing pandemic before it's too late.
We can take lessons, both what worked and those "learned", from the past waves of Ebola epidemics.
The CDC has laid the groundwork for rapid response.
Call your congressperson, demand that Congress give the CDC immediate and generous emergency funding in order for their experts to get cracking.
https://www.cdc.gov/globalhealth/healthprotection/gdd/what-we-do.html
https://www.cdc.gov/outbreaks/index.html
https://www.cdc.gov/globalhealth/security/cdcrole.htm
7
What? The mayor of Wuhan offers to resign? I am against it.
First of all, taking personal responsibility is, I think, against the system that believes the Party Central and therefore its minions are always correct and the "system" is paramount compared to the individual. Besides this is a natural disaster thrown at them by God. You say they don't believe in God? OK, thrown at them by the supernatural in which they do believe. Remember they legislate about the reincarnation of the Dalai Lama?
Second of all, resigning over "personal responsibility" sets an extrenely bad precedent. All powers are forever until purged by The Leadership Core. It is never up to the individual to "resign".
1
Having abandoned the term- limited collective leadership model Chinese President and Chinese Communist Party Chairman Xi Jinping is going to either have to take singular personal responsibility or punch down the government and party leadership and force someone else to take the fall for him.
3
How do doctors treat pneumonia? Does it require an IV drip, intubation and a ventilator? How long does it take to train someone in one of those tasks? There will soon be a portion of the population who has immunity from this disease just as the number of new infection explodes. Why not trade the cost of their medical care with helping car for the sick.
Building a new hospital in a few weeks is impressive but army tent hospitals with cots and portable generators can be deployed within hours. Infectious diseases kill more people than any modern war. It makes sense at a minimum to fully utilize those resources now.
6
@PictureBook The flaw in your logic is that it fails to recognize that just as populations with immunity increase, so do new viruses that get around that immunity. It's Darwin at work in real time. And with climate change, it doesn't get cold enough in parts of the world (like mine) over the winter to kill off the viruses and other germs. We are seeing viruses we never saw before, but even the old standard flu viruses are getting tougher to combat. Remember a couple years ago we all got flu shots but still got the flu, because the A strain came up and the predictors who make the shots didn't see it coming? Darwin at work in real time, aided and abetted by human foolishness.
5
@PictureBook - One of my dearest friends got pneumonia last fall in her nursing facility. She already had severe diabetes and literally overnight, she went septic, went into a coma and later that day the family pulled the plug after doctors told them she wasn't coming back.
Otherwise, you generally are given meds and sent home requiring no IV's, or constant medical supervision. But when combined with preexisting medical conditions, it is a whole 'nother ball game.
10
If you get sick enough, it sure does. Because basically our antivirals don’t do much, and what you’re trying to do is keep the patient alive until their own immune system can kick in.
Same as if you’re told go home, rest, stay home, and call us if things get worse.
5
So a Chinese factory worker sneezes on a product destined for the U.S. and you buy it and tear open the packaging, is the virus still viable ?
Coronavirus spreads more easily from person to person than previously thought, says WHO official.
14
@Everyman omg that’s scary majority of merchandise comes from China
2
@Everyman Unofficially, I've heard it can stay alive on surfaces for up to 24 hours.
2
@Everyman
Some viruses can survive on non-organic surfaces for a period of time... strains of hepatitis for several days as I recall but then has a higher barrier threshold to enter the body and establish itself. So though it might be on a surface, people need a strong direct exposure to contract it ie, needles, broken skin contact, unprotected sex. Other viruses are more robust in there transmissibility, sure. However, the three week trip on a shipping container followed by time for distribution, purchase and use would not be a scenaio to worry over if someone sneezes on products. I would not worry about this type of transmission. It is more immediate, intimate contact that is of concern.
8
It makes little sense for the mayor to resign. He knows the most about the city now and should remain as mayor. People's lives are far more important than pride.
12
The major deserves time in jail. Hidding the severeness of the desease from the public (He didn't acknowledge the possibility of human to human transmission until mid January. Wuhan government also organized a big party involving 40k people despite the epidemic.) and blocking supplies (Wuhan is in dire situation, but he is reporting that everything's fine and no support is needed.) is nothing less than crimes against humanity.
3
Flu is far worst. The CDC estimates that up to 42.9 million people got sick during the 2018-2019 flu season, 647,000 people were hospitalized and 61,200 died in US alone. During SARS outbreak between November 2002 and July 2003 there are a total of 774 combined deaths reported in 17 countries.
11
@Trek
The overall number of deaths is the wrong metric. The percentage of deaths among people who have the flu is well under 1%. And there are flu vaccines that offer protection against the flu.
In contrast, the death rate for SARs and MERS was 10% and 35%. There are no vaccines or treatment against the Wuhan coronavirus, and no one knows what the death rate will be.
82
@Trek Total numbers don’t tell the full story. Using your numbers and China’s current reported numbers, the Coronavirus death rate is significantly worse than flu: .0014 for flu vs. .03 using China’s current figures of 2700 cases and 82 deaths. Yes, flu has affected many more people, but your chance of dying from it is, as far as we can tell so far, much lower and that is worry.
8
2700 infections in China, 80 deaths. That's hardly a terrifying mortality rate.
2
Doesn’t seem like those “Temperature Checkpoints” mean much any more given the recent revelation that the virus can be spread during the incubation period (which is two weeks) when people don’t show any symptoms.
18
@BlueBird
Two weeks? That seems like a really long incubation period.
1
Below is a link to the Johns Hopkins online "dashboard" that is tracking nCoV2019 in real time. Data is not reported until lab tests show an DNA match with the pathogen, resulting in significant delays, especially in mainland China where medical personnel are overwhelmed.
https://hub.jhu.edu/2020/01/23/coronavirus-outbreak-mapping-tool-649-em1-art1-dtd-health/
14
@M Davis Thank you; this is the kind of information that has been lacking. Still, denominators like: how many people were tested but were negative, and how many people are suspected cases that aren't tested would be helpful also. Also, ages, hospitalization rates, etc. etc., but this is a great start.
I just saw on another international news site that Trump has said “US & China are in close contact” about virus outbreak. Shudder. Putting aside the bizarre pun - I am truly terrified of Trump getting involved through words and/or actions - his and his administration’s disdain for science and hard scientific facts, and tendency to denial, are completely at odds with what will be required in such a crisis as this.
23
Until the animal market and animal trade are banned, this panic will happen again after the current coronavirus... it is not easy to deal with a totalitarian regime that only cares about making money
14
@jim "it's not easy to deal with a totalitarian regime that only cares about making money"...like The United States?
10
The virus has been out in the wild for a month and a half. This could be a global Black Swan event. Prepare accordingly.
16
If only they used the resources silencing detaining journalists and deleting, censoring the internet, to ban illegal markets (or crack down on the corrupt officials who accepted bribes to allow these markets to exist) and enforce better food and health safety standards. They need to focus less on saving face and more on saving people. #Coronbyl
9
Fear gives way anger as we confront another virus incubated by those who ‘enjoy’ tormenting, clubbing, slicing and eating live animals in the name of ancient rituals and beliefs. China’s open air ‘markets.’ Japan’s brutal Taiji dolphin slaughter. Spain’s hideous bull ‘fights’. Our own and other’s torture and slaughter of animals on a unprecedented industrial scale. Or the mass shootings and marketing of opioids. Anger at the barbarity. Anger at the greed. Anger over the deaths. We should be disgusted with our behavior and furious with ourselves.
38
Xi Jinping is the one who should be resigning for his administration's lies, deceit, and manipulation of the people. He has badly mismanaged this crisis and allowed thousands of people around the world to get deathly ill and possibly die. By continuing to allow thousands of flights a day out of the country, the contagion is not unstoppable.
5
@CP - Don't forget all of those container ships with crews onboard bringing literally everything on your store shelves. They sail into the Puget Sound everyday.
If they stopped those ships for 2-4 weeks, watch what happens to everyone's 401K.
Who has gotten deathly ill here in the U.S. or died from this? The first case in the country only called his doctor because he felt a little ill when he landed, saw a news report about the city he had just visited, so he called to be on the safe side. The only reason he is in the hospital is to be quarantined. Otherwise, he would be at work right now.
2
The problem in China is that they have something in their constitution (CCP rules) that says unchinese-like conduct is punishable with imprisonment or worse, i.e. the opposite of free speech. So that all lower echelon officials are afraid to say anything that those above can say is unchinese-like, which includes any bad news. Fires in nightclubs are not reported; a whole train was attempted to be buried after a major crash.
Unreported infectious disease outbreaks is just one of the problems. Major air and water pollution is also not reported, because all the emphasis, reports from below to above, must fill yearly development quotas. The rush to oblivion through global warming/climate change is written into the Chinese constitution.
Unless those at the top realize that this is the major problem facing the world today and decide to do something about it. Maybe they could even have influence in persuading our own climate deniers--paid off by our oil and coal oligarchs--to do something about it. Anyway, in a top down system, the Chinese could get something done fast if they wanted to.
Here not removing Trump is not the only stonewalling going on. Stonewalling sponsored by Exxon, the Saudis, and the Russians on climate change is keeping the voice of the people from being heard.
11
I’m living in Thailand and closely China.Moreover,Chinese tourism came to our country during this situation.Now,Having 8 Thai people contacted Coronavirus.This crisis is a big problem that we faced because we haven’t medicine for this virus.Furtheremore,It’s easily contact one person to another one.We cannot do anymore than wearing the mask and avoiding to be among crowded people or tourist spots.
Not only effect to medical industry but also effect to Economic across the world especially in Asia. I don’t know when this virus will decline or disappear.I just hope we can control this crisis and find out the method to treat people contacting Coronavirus.
13
The concern is the unprecedented quarantine zone. It is a possible harbinger of a much greater problem than China is presently indicating. (A characteristic common in their past.) China, and its leaders, are experiencing a very serious "loss of face". And that conceivably brings political instability into the equation.
14
The 1918 flu wiped out five percent of the world's population. Anything like it would probably equal or exceed that in today's society. We simply aren't equipped to deal with a constantly changing virus that is airborne. Scientists are racing to come up with vaccines even now but human testing will take awhile. Then it takes six weeks to grow a vaccine in a chicken egg. Shouting at them doesn't make it any faster.
17
A lot of fear and concern about day traders but not much info about the virus.
So you’re leaving us in the dark to guess what to expect? Isn’t it just a more virulent form of the flu?
So protect our kids and the elderly as best as possible?
7
WHO is meeting in Beijing today, no doubt we will find out more concrete facts soon.
7
@Mathias Influenza is an entirely different type of virus.
4
@Mathias Thank you for your comment. Authorities have said that information about the outbreak is still developing but here are some of our journalists' articles about the virus itself, including its symptoms and treatments:
- https://nyti.ms/30Ws3W6
- https://nyti.ms/30Z2PXb
- https://nyti.ms/30Z2sMh
- https://nyti.ms/2TWncD0
- https://nyti.ms/2t2rI7X
I hope this helps. Thank you for reading.
8
Wuhan's mayor got one thing absolutely right: closing off a city of 1.1 million is unprecedented in human history. I can't see how this could possibly happen in any other country on earth. While it would cerntainly be unconstitutional in the US, I truly admire the collectivism and self-sacrifice demonstrated by the vast majority of Wuhan residents who willingly canceled trips and stayed at home.
The fact that China has had many virus outbreaks should also be put in context. You probably never heard of Wuhan before but it is more densely populated than NYC. Keeping a large population healthy is difficult and China's GDP per capita is about 1/6 that of Japan. SARS, as bad as it was, was eliminated in under a year. Unlike Ebola in Africa, in all likelihood this coronavirus will also go away in half a year. In that sense, we need to appreciate China's effectiveness.
46
Wuhan has eleven million people, not 1.1 million.
15
Thank you for putting things into perspective.
1
11million. Even more intimidating of a task.
IMHO, this virus is comparable to the "Spanish Flu" influenza virus when it appeared in 1917. In that year, many people did not take it seriously because the total number of cases was small. By 1919, everyone knew better but it was much too late to stop the worldwide pandemic. The same thing can happen now unless drastic action is taken, regardless of the economic impact. All travel to East Asia from the Western Hemisphere should be stopped immediately. That means not just tourism but also business travel and diplomatic travel. The virus does not care whether it is attacking a tourist, a business traveler or a diplomat.
14
It's far too late for that, it's reached every continent except South America (and that is only a matter of time).
4
@David Friedlander
In my opinion all travel from China to the US should be stopped immediately. That means not just tourism but also business travel and diplomatic travel.
We have no control over whatever course of action other countries in the Western Hemisphere ( I suspect Canada is the other main destination) choose to adopt with regards to the 2019 -nCoV but we should attempt to protect the US. A ban on travel from China will at least mitigate the severity of the outbreak (fewer infected people coming in) and buy us some time to gather accurate information, assess the situation and formulate a response. A quick glance at the number of direct flight from China to the US is not reassuring.
I recognize this is not politically correct. I do not care.
4
The American response to this crisis is quite telling. All condemnations and glee at the misery of others, and not a single ounce of aid.
46
@Mary
How did we help Puerto Rico? You know where our own citizens live?
We have a misinformation problem tied to the Republican Party that denigrates anyone outside their red states. This is our problem.
And they can use this as just more fuel to isolate further instead of work together.
10
@Mary One has to hope that there is no "glee at the misery of others" since the virus is just as capable of killing an American as it is capable of killing a Chinese person. If even one person gets off an airplane from Beijing to New York while incubating the virus, that person can expose all of the passengers on an entire train and they in turn can expose their families and everyone else that they contact. The virus can spread geometrically and cause a pandemic here in the United States before we even know what is happening.
11
@Mary What do you suggest Americans do? Send aid to the second most powerful nation with virtually unlimited resources but a horrible record of human rights abuses? This is a cultural problem for them to solve: Open-air, unregulated, unhygienic food markets selling exotic live wildlife for almost immediate consumption in highly dense urban areas. The only aid we should are get-well wishes and pamphlets on food safety. Maybe a copy of, "The Jungle."
38
Thanks, globalization!
9
@M Davis Globalization has very little to do with it. Epidemics happen, they happened thoughout history. All people move around and pratice trade. The Black Death, Smallpox, Yellow Fever, Cholera, Scarett Fever, Typhoid, Polio, Diptheria, HIV/Aids to name a few. Plus major flu epidemics, such as the one in 1918.
10
Panic will be unproductive. Get the politics out of this global health crisis caused by Wuhan Corona Virus (WCV) and bring in the cavalry of virologist and public health officials. China is the 2nd largest economy in the world and can easily shovel billions of dollars to come up with a multi pronged approach to effectively stop the spread of the WCV. One of the prongs that is currently missing is a prophylactic response to enable those already exposed or in early stages of infection to give a chance to the immune system to ward off the infection.
When there is a viral infection with a deadly virus like Ebola or WCV there is a race between the virus multiplying rapidly and the immune system being able to clear it. If the virus prevails and spreads through the lungs rapidly then the infected person could choke to death of inability to breathe. If the infected person can survive LONG ENOUGH to put up a robust immune response then the person can recover. Time is of the essence when a person is infected or exposed to WCV. The goal should be to keep an infected person alive as long as is possible with all means possible.
I have spent 1/2 my life understanding how viruses trick our immune system starting from my NIH days and I am trying to find out how I can help the planning and execution of an effective strategy to out smart WCV and save lives. An antiviral that could be deployed right away are EVNCs.
https://www.futuremedicine.com/doi/abs/10.2217/fvl-2017-0154
13
@Girish Kotwal EVNC is not explained here. The reference is pay-for-view. (1/2 my lifetime, though impressive, is not a reference). Another article: Harnessing Host-Virus Evolution, Heaton, 2019. About targeting host proteins, rather than virus proteins, for new therapeutic treatment--a review. Major problem with RNA viruses is a shorter genome, less error checking with reproduction, and therefore a rapid mutation rate that gets around drug treatments.
With coverage of this new virus, more deadly is ebola and the problems healthcare workers are now having to get to those infected in Africa--a day to day touch and go situation with doctors and nurses being evacuated because their lives are in danger from anti-science militants.
@Girish Kotwal
Yes, panic is never helpful. But don't be complacent, either. This looks to get bad.
Respiratory person-to-person contagion, right out of the gate.
2019-nCoV has been identified on three continents.
From the earliest numbers out of China, the early mortality rate is 81/3,000 cases. We don't know the infection rate.
I'll post the CDC's response on another entry.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nCoV/summary.html
1
@maybemd Maryland. You are right being complacent and uncaring will not help and in fact my comments is asking for everyone who could be helpful should help.
2
Not to worry. Donald Trump has proposed a 200% tariff on the virus and has also promised to tweet out a vaccine later today.
138
The DOW has dropped 440 points at the opening bell today, and CNBC Business blames it on this Virus scare that is spreading like the winds...Very scary time, and it almost always originates in Asia. Why?
14
@Moe Two reasons:
1) Dense population makes for an ideal breading ground
2) Consumption of "bushmeat" (wild animals) such as snakes, rats and bats known to be carriers
44
@Moe
The Chinese refused to crack down on their wet meat markets and now the rest of the world is going to pay the price in suffering and death. Isn't globalization wonderful.
38
@Moe
The yield curve is also down again. That could spell a recession in the offing.
We’ve basically got a Trifecta this morning:
A. Lethal new virus out of control in China. Spreading...
B. Markets telling us this virus is BAD for business.
C. GOP Senate may have to call Bolton! This could be lethal for the Trump presidency.
8
I am sorry to sound insensitive to human suffering, I am not, it is simply that animals have been suffering to the point of annihilation from this market of
“ medicinal” animals parts.
You know this has stopped the sale of endangered and close to extinction animal parts. Nothing will stop this horrible poaching of the worlds most beautiful animals. So many are on the brink of being lost forever. All for the Chinese market - the market where this started has been doing this for years . The big business of animal poaching. Killing the elephants and rhinos.
The only thing good about this virus is that the market is closed. I wish it was forever.
Maybe the people counting on tigers going extinct so their tiger wine can sell at a huge profit will think a bit more about what they are doing.
You can see more on this market and what it promotes in ‘ chances of the world changing’ about the international and illegal trade of turtles, and a man in NYC trying to save species. Also - planet in peril.
Surely the authorities have been bribed or in on this lucrative business , perhaps they can end it forever .
73
@Lulu - Doubtful, we can't end the sale of heroin in our country.
4
@Lulu Your heart is in the right place. However, I don't believe that this had anything to do with a "medicinal" animal parts market. I think this was basically a food market. Think of it like a place with a lobster tank but also some other tanks and cages. And while some animals there may have been genuinely "exotic", creatures like civets don't seem particularly rare or endangered. Unfortunately, despite all their technology thefts, the Chinese have yet to steal the secret of immaculate meat production employed by America's supermarkets.
9
No, there is a story about the market . It’s the same market. They deal in internationally illegal animal parts.
8
I don't understand why the fact that China's only BSL-4 Biosafe facility is located in Wuhan is so underreported. To me, the only storage and testing facility for the virus affecting the worth being in the epicenter of the outbreak is a redflag.
62
And most likely a pure coincidence.
4
@Julien I don't see why you would jump to it being a coincidence. One of the pathogenic viruses studied at the lab was the coronavirus. I think a virus escaping from the lab is a lot more plausible than anything else. Let's see some real reporting.
12
@Hannah There have been publications from scientists working in the lab on the bat coronavirus also
5
On a scale of one to ten with ten being the worse possible outcome, the virus is a one , maybe a two, but the panic it will bring is already an eight . Since there are five cases of the disease in the United States it will be helpful to hear reports how the patients are being treated and what we are learning of the disease from the doctors treating them
Panic is never healthy. What is needed is wisdom and good health practices like washing your hands, covering your mouth when you cough, using alcohol based hand sanitizers . What the public needs is guidance and knowledge not fear and ignorance.
41
@Lonnie - I can give you a local view of the Washington case. He felt ill when he landed. The only reason he even called his doctor was because he saw the news report of the Wuhan virus (where he had just been) and played it safe. He was moved to a hospital in a city the size of South Bend, Indiana that has a review rating online of 2.8. They did not move him to either Harborview or the University of Washington Hospital in Seattle which would have made sense if he was seriously ill with a strange new bug. He has been kept in the hospital simply to be on the safe side. But I have not read anything that indicates that he is particularly ill, that anyone working there has caught anything nor anyone he came into contact with after he landed at Sea-Tac and then headed at least two hours home to whatever tiny burg he lives in (they have not reported this). Not one medical person in the area seems at all alarmed. He is in his thirties and says that he did not visit the market when he was in Wuhan. I believe he has been in the hospital a week now so we are half way through a 14-day exposure cycle and no new cases. We had a worse medical scare last year with measles in the area.
6
@Lonnie
Heard it at the start of every prior epidemic. "Nothing to see Here" says Lonnie Assuredly.
2
@tom harrison He was transported in a protective gurney to an isolated room where he is being monitored by a robot and communicates with doctors via microphone. Officials are monitoring 69 people who were in close contact with him. https://www.heraldnet.com/news/robot-doc-treats-man-in-everett-with-coronavirus/
3
Wuhan was the site of the first Bio Safety Lab in China to study dangerous pathogens, just opened a couple of years ago. I would feel pretty guilty if I would be the mayor.
22
@Hannah
The mayor is not in charge of the lab. The national insitute of virology of the national academy of sciences of China is, together with (perhaps) the PLA.
There is nothing to worry about. Trump let us know last week that China and the U.S. have the situation totally under control.
21
It would be fantastic for him to travel there and check it out firsthand - for the benefit of the entire world.
56
@Biji Basi - They just have headaches. Its a nothing-burger.
8
From a country that surveils their people incessantly and controls what they read say, you’d think they would after similar outbreaks such as Sars, clamp down on live animal markets that seem to be the cause of these virulent outbreaks. Recently they’ve set checkpoints to peer into the trunks of cars. Where we in the US might think the target would be illegals aliens or drugs (or guns), it was live animals for private consumption they were looking for. Take note: there is a reason we and other first world countries have bans and enforcement on this type of activity.
19
I don't think the numbers provided by the Chinese government is correct. It looks to me that the number of sick people is around 100K based on the urgency that Chinese government is dealing with. I hope the Chinese government is truthful
21
The Chinese government is never truthful . I met an epidemiologist years ago who said whatever numbers China puts out , the truth is ten times greater .
35
I think the Chinese are attempting to react and report real data as fast as possible but with a virus of this scale and size it is simply not possible. The data you see is clearly not up to date.
We know nCoV2019 (the official ID of this virus) is airborne, we know its spreading fast and is fatal in many cases. The best hope is a vaccine but that will take months, at best.
Wash your hands!
6
@ap
It’s a flu it sounds like. It’s going to spread like all flu does.
2
1. california fires. 2. impeachment trial. 3. australia fires and animal loss. 4. coronavirus. following all these. sending donations. there is one bright spot and forgive me for doing this, but where can I purchase the headgear worn by the chinese couple in the Beijing picture. those embroidered ears with the fluffy stuff (cause I hope it's not bunny fur) gave me a lift. (if it is bunny fur, never mind)
5
Definitely insomnia causing. I have not slept right since the fires.
All of this is causing great suffering in the animal kingdom. This eden we use and abuse for money.
One would think one billion animals would get as much coverage as this- but no- we will
Never care enough for other species to stop what we are doing .
Or will we ? Will you?
21
@Jenny
Laughing out loud. They are sure to be made in China. Maybe Amazon? Good luck.
4
@Lulu - I have not bought a gallon of gas in 10 years now or been on a plane since 1991. The only new clothes I ever buy are socks and underwear. I have not been on a plane since 1991. Perhaps once a month, I ride a bus otherwise everywhere I go is by foot or bike. There are no plastic water bottles in my fridge (I use Mason jars instead). I could go on and on. My city is powered by hydro/nuclear. I heat my apartment with the grow lights I use to grow a lot of my food year round so my heat doesn't just make me feel good, it feeds me as well.
I can do this because I live in a city with great bike lanes, public transportation, etc. It will be harder to match my footprint if you live in the sticks of Wyoming and can't walk to at least 4 large groceries, two major home centers, etc.
10
On a scale of one to ten with ten being the worse possible outcome, the virus is a one , maybe a two, but the panic it will bring is already an eight . Since there are five cases of the disease in the United States it will be helpful to hear reports how the patients are being treated and what we are learning of the disease from the doctors treating them
Panic is never healthy. What is needed is wisdom and good health practices like washing your hands, covering your mouth when you cough, using alcohol based hand sanitizers . What the public needs is guidance and knowledge not fear and ignorance.
4
@Lonnie
Agreed. This entire report was fear but little substance. What do we do at home? I’m assuming it is a really dangerous strain of the flu. So that’s what I’m preparing for as it filters through society.
1
I think it’s difficult as they have an enormous country with a huge population, a centrally led government and local party government that is evidently not allowed to act without top down direction.
While a quarantine of the area where the infection originated might have helped in the early stages, given that evidently 5 million people left Wuhan alone and the global nature of Chinese travel, it’s likely too little too late.
What’s a big concern is that whatever happens in one country now places the rest of the world at risk. How to demand high levels of health and safety standards worldwide without infringing on the sovereign rights of a country is indeed a conundrum.
106
Doesn’t help that China bans Taiwan from WHO. It’s clear China’s top priorities are political.
3
Closing the barn door after the horses escape is all I keep thinking as I read about quarantines and hospitals that learned from the bird flu and SARS and are now ready. Well, perhaps are ready. This is the third - think of that - the third global pandemic orginating due to food hygiene in China. Why not control the source and have a set of sanitary restrictions on certain practices set up by A Board of International Health and Welfare as an independent body? My biggest worry is the direct link now between China and Africa. A conduit for disaster as those countries are certainly not ready to treat an onslaught of their sick citizens. Another trope to end - the fish stinks from the head.
178
Illegal Animal trade - end it and this won’t happen.
Call for the end of this horrible poaching and slaughter .
58
@me Flu is far worst. The CDC estimates that up to 42.9 million people got sick during the 2018-2019 flu season, 647,000 people were hospitalized and 61,200 died in US alone. During SARS outbreak between November 2002 and July 2003 there are a total of 774 combined deaths reported in 17 countries.
9
@Trek
Yes, we should be concerned about all the deaths from flu, especially since annual vaccines are available. Please don't allow the flu numbers to make you complacent about what is a developing pandemic.
2019-nCoV is just getting started. It's early mortality number is 81/3,000. That's way higher than the flu. For comparison, an Ebola outbreak in Guinea had 59 deaths out of 1,130 cases.
2019-nCoV has already been reported on three continents, in the short time since the first reports out of China.
Person-to-person respiratory transfer right out of the gate. That's unusual and not good. Even bubonic plague took a while to go pneumonic.
Stock markets around the world are reacting; 2019-nCoV has already begun affecting the world economy.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nCoV/summary.html
8
In 2012, members of an advanced Western culture (sarcasm intended) contracted the zoonotic disease caused by Hantavirus. They were not plundering Nature like the unwashed masses on the other side of the world, they were paying homage to Her at one of her greatest temples, Yosemite.
The threat of zoonotic disease is real. Instead of smugly repeating "you reap what you sow" and gleefully waiting for China to fail, to be punished, we should be supporting her in any way possible. I admit, my reasons are somewhat selfish. China is essentially attempting another Great Wall. There is much to be learned that will be useful for everyone later. What worked and what did not? We should also be doing everything in our power to help with the Wall. Much better to have the bulk of the battle fought there, to contain the Wuhan virus there. If China breaks and this turns out to be a bad one, I have little hope that any other nation will be able to mobilize as she has. This is a nation that has locked down 10s of millions of people during their equivalent of Christmas. If she breaks, what chance does anyone have? And if this turns out to be an overreaction, what we learn can still be applied to The Big One that is surely coming.
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We don't usually get sick from walking around outside. We get sick from communicable pathogens by coming into close proximity to other people who are infected and exhibiting symptoms, or who are vectors who are asymptomatic, or immune. Usually indoors.
That's why the quarantine in Wuhan scares me. Stay indoors in a worried, sedentary state; avoid fresh air and exercise. I picture the population unknowingly cooperating in their own destruction after infecting those they are closest to. Maybe I should not have watched all four seasons of "The Strain."
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People should realize there’s only so much governments can do.
Respiratory pathogens are essentially unstoppable; the only thing quarantined of any size will do is slow the inevitable spread.
Anyone who has traveled anywhere in the world away from the source has been in contact with hundreds of people in the process, and so the spread of the virus worldwide would be inevitable even if just ONE infected but not yet symptomatic person left Wuhan.
We must stop getting angry at governments and scapegoating individuals; nothing they have done will make any long term difference.
The coronavirus will take about 60 days to spread across the entire globe.
The only real question is its lethality. That remains to be seen. If it is high, no matter what is done, medical systems worldwide will be overwhelmed.
The only solution is a vaccine, and that will take awhile to prepare, manufacture and distribute. There will be shortages, if it can be made.
The words and actions of governments are meant only to prevent panic. Panic helps no-one.
But neither does anger and scapegoating.
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@Steven
Yes! Ranting and Raving will do nothing to stop this virus.
We all need to remain calm, realistically consider the risks, do what we personally can, and understand that this is not something that is easily stopped or dealt with.
We will likely have more problems due to panic than due to the virus. As this thing gets going. Like a tide coming in - that we just have to watch - till it goes out.
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@Steven
Agreed. One step folks can take is get vaccinated for flu, if they haven't already. This will reduce the likelihood they will need to get medical attention for a preventable illness, reducing the risk of their getting infected by visiting health care facilities where others might have the coronavirus. It will also reduce the burden on our health care system, so it can focus on the challenges of the spreading coronavirus.
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@Sandwich
Unsure vaccinations would help? It only works on a flu virus they captured and killed. I suppose it won’t hurt but it may not have any affect either.
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Really surprised how little aid China has recieved since the outbreak. Major organisations such as the world health organisation has not yet pulled the trigger that it is a global crisis, and China seems to be dealing with this issue on it's own
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@Stephen
Don't you think that the second largest economy in the world can afford to handle a crisis such as this one?
That said, I saw pictures on the television of US aid being unloaded in China to help them.
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@Stephen
China don’t need financial assistance, just consumable medical supplies like masks, suits, and testing kits but it seems China’s industrial capacity can mostly keep up with demand. No countries stock enough though (unless you are Singapore) so it is always a global effort. I believe a few organizations are accept bulk donations of masks, shields for shipment to Wuhan.
Kinda like how earthquake rescue teams are always flying because no country ever have enough on hand.
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Trusting China to have given an accurate accounting when the virus first hit is akin to trusting Russia whenever they have a nuclear accident.
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@denise ,
Or trusting Trump when he says anything.
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@denise
Name a WTO press release that states China is underreporting number of infected.
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How is it a good (and moral) idea then for the US to "rescue" its citizens who are currently within quarantine zones?
Seems pretty self-centered and Ugly-American-ish if you ask me.
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@JFR Well, if it makes you feel any better, they're NOT rescuing their citizens. There are over 1000 Americans in Wuhan (including my daughter) and 250 seats on that ONE plane, with diplomatic (and one supposes well-to-do business people) given preference. People vying for the other seats were told they'd have to pay for them (no pets, no people with coughs or colds). They aren't sending reassurances, they aren't providing medical aid. They are doing exactly nothing past that paltry, inadequate flight.
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@JR
Several countries, not only the U.S. are doing this.
France is flying its Nationals out and into a mandatory 14 day quarantine at home. Russia, and Sri Lanka are chartering planes.
Please don’t blame this terrible thing on “Ugly Americans”.
I think everyone there should be made to stay and put into mandatory quarantines but I’m sure that is a logistical impossibility.
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@JFR
I am not against evacuating citizens with proper quarantine procedures in place once they are out because face it, it is less people the Wuhan government have to worry about.
What I want is enough seats so all citizens and their family can leave if they wish. Transpacific flights really aren’t expensive at $500-something round trip so for the government to be so stingy at time of emergency doesn’t inspire confidence.
1
A mayor taking responsibility and offering to resign. What an alien culture.
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He and the other Hubei/Wuhan officials are the reason this became such a mess.
He would be lucky if the only thing he lost is his job when it's over.
1
"The State Department said it had chartered a flight to take consular staff members other American citizens to San Francisco from Wuhan on Tuesday. At least one American, a father of three young children, declined the offer after the United States government said his wife, a Chinese national, would not be offered a seat. "
We ought to be very proud of this American father, and of his decency...and totally repulsed by our State Department directives.
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I am sure the situation is more complicated than what it appears to be. Was the wife a permanent US resident? Did she at least apply for such a residency? Just being the spouse of a US citizen doesn’t give one any US rights.
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Sadly , if both of them die , the children will be orphaned
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@PaulN Her being the mother of three American children ought to trump this bureaucratic nonsense especially by a nation wealthy and blessed as we are.
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As a scientist, a pandemic’s spread is fascinating to watch, even though I and people whom I know and love could end up being its victims.
But, in this instance, the virus *bug* has plainly gone global, it can be transmitted by an asymptomatic vector (i.e., no outward signs of the disease in the infectious person; nice evolutionary step, virus), and we have no targeted vaccines to counter the bug.
Perhaps this is that particular Horseman of the Apocalypse we humans have been imagining for centuries.
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@LynnBob
Great! Thanks...
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It is good to watch evolution of the planet videos, the coming and going of life. We are the most destructive species that has ever existed. A blip in the vastness of time. Yet, we still think we are the chosen ones.
How many species have been living in relative harmony and balance for millions of years ?
The ones being sold at this market. The ones choking on our plastic and dying en masse in the climate change caused Australian continent on fire .
These innocent beings did nothing to cause their destruction and extinction. We are doing it at an incredible rate per day. 250 species are estimated to go extinct DAILY.
Why do we think we are above nature ?
It was the biggest mistake we ever made.
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@Lulu Scientists have offered myriad potential answers to Fermi's question, including that aliens are hibernating or deliberating hiding from us. Some researchers have also suggested that highly advanced technological civilizations destroy themselves before they have the opportunity to get in contact with other intelligent life in the universe.
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Re: “... public health experts have so far warned against mass anxiety. “ Under what conditions should we anticipate these experts recommending mass anxiety?
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From the photo it looks like Wuhan in China enjoys much better streets (that is, has better infrastructure) than we have here -- for example, in the District of Columbia. How can this be?
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No construction unions makes labor low cost.
@Percy41 DC is in an infinitely more beautiful city.
@Percy41 because the Chinese government will break all the eggs necessary in order to make an omelette. Most other governments won't.
Wow. A government official who acknowledges his failures, accepts responsibility for them, and offers to resign. Meanwhile, the square peg in the Oval Office has systematically cut CDC funding, thus hobbling its efforts to respond to an outbreak of the Wuhan coronavirus here. Enamored as trump is of strong-arm leaders in authoritarian countries like China, I’m sure he will also take responsibility and offer to resign, should the epidemic ravage our own shores.
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I have personally visited these markets. They need to be closed.
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The only good part of this is that they are. They need to be permanently shut down. Humans have been destroying the greatest thing about living on earth for far too long now.
End the Chinese medicinal animal trade.
Acupuncture and herbs but no more tiger parts and elephant tusks and rhino tusks. Stop killing the things I love about being alive on planet earth. Without them there is no point to any of this living.
For what ? Concrete and money?
22
As difficult as the situation is with this virus, we have to keep it in perspective. On average 30,000 people die from the flu in the US each year. Malaria alone kills 3,000 children a day in Africa, one -million- people a year. TB kills 1.3 -million-. HIV/AIDS one -million-. There’s an Ebola epidemic going on right now in west/central Africa that’s killed tens of thousands in just a few months.
Why don’t we ever hear about the absolute horror of these diseases? Why isn’t there wall to wall coverage of the horrors these infections cause while there is breathless coverage of the Wuhan virus? You already know the answer.
The diseases listed above kill almost exclusively poor people. Charities and multinational organizations do wonderful work in these places, but no matter what politicians might say these poverty riven areas are not a priority. We have more important, wealthy country things to think about like nuclear war and how quickly we should destroy the environment (oh which also increases the infection rates of these diseases).
You want to change things? Elect politicians who have a long history of caring for the poor. Force your elected officials to open their eyes even if they don’t want to see. Normalize this so that we can care for the poor not just at home, but see it as a priority internationally too. We can make a difference, but first we have to have perspective.
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@John
You must have somehow missed the 24/7 coverage of the big (2014-2016) Ebola breakout in west/central Africa just a few years ago. It went on for months.
It was news then because it was becoming pandemic, its parameters unknown, and it was unconfined at that time.
I notice that you do not blame the corrupt leaders of these countries, who keep their populations poor and ignorant about disease transmission.
Ebola doesn't care if you are rich or poor--or finger-pointing and moralistic; ebola does what any opportunistic virus does: it spreads in whatever available way it can.
Even a government of a poorer country can warn and educate its citizens. They receive millions in international largess every year, expressly for this purpose. But the record there is not good, even though this is the region the Ebola and Marburg viruses originated in (The Ebola River is located in the Central African Republic). And despite the fact that it is nothing new: Ebola Virus was identified by the W.H.O. in 1976 and was known locally before that, due to occasional localized outbreaks.
Even when the local governments do try, age-old customs like bathing and wrapping the dead for burial--the ideal way to transmit the virus--stubbornly continue.
The American Government exists primarily to protect American citizens.
Instead of pointing the finger and declaring victory, why not be the change? Volunteer. Tithe your income. Commit to your concern. Adopt. Sponsor a family. Act.
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@John
If we are not hearing about this what responsibility do you accord the media whose job is reporting to the public what is happening in the world? Yes, politicians will steer our attention to issues they choose to champion but the press itself decides everyday in editorial process what to feature.
I don't look to politicians for health and science reports. All the major media outlets have bureaus in these countries. They have journalists doing "something" 52 weeks a year and some portion of coverage alotted to science and health. Maybe editors need to be reminded of their responsibility to report with breadth and depth from these far flung areas so readers are informed when our politicians are doing what politicians do.
5
It’s a sewage problem in many places. Nepal doesn’t have clean water out of faucets .
Water is an issue many places and it’s carried in containers from one main source and has to be boiled.
2
President Trump has repeatedly proposed massive cuts to funding for our global pandemic prevention programs. For now, we are ok, despite the short sighted, unscientific decisions made by this president. How long will our luck hold out?
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Netflix posted a new documentary series called "Pandemic" and it could not be more timely. In watching the program go thru the history and probability of quickly spreading viruses such as the coronavirus we may be seeing a new outbreak of the 1917 Spanish Flu.
15
Unfortunately, there are still no clear indications of the extent and duration of the crisis. However, the overt developments and actions of the Chinese government portend a very serious conclusion. China Has Fallen. It is now just a matter of how far. Hopefully the ravage of the disease can be minimized. But irrespective, the global economy is entering uncharted waters. An economic recession is now unavoidable. And the consequences of that event will most likely be equally destructive.
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@R
China's actions seem extremely excessive for the number of cases and deaths it has reported. The overall picture strongly suggests that an extremely severe and easily transmittable disease is on the loose. Sometimes actions really do speak louder than words.
"For any health or environmental regulation to work, Mr. Yasuda said, “you want it to be standardized, you want it to be transparent, you want it to be accountable.”
As with any other legislation you also need open public scrutiny and discussion.
16
could this potentially disastrous epidemic become china's chernobyl, exposing the calamitous weaknesses and corruption of the political system and bringing about real change? alas, probably not.
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You should be more afraid about it becoming a pandemic that kills Americans as well. I know I am. I'm sure Trump thinks a few people just have headaches.
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