Weinstein, a predator-capitalist mammal, hunts victim mammals. Perfect together. Comments favor predation or sympathy. Hence, trials.
2
Lots of people are saying:
I don't understand this?
This doesn't make sense?
Why did she do this?
But people who have either been raped or know about rape respond with:
This is really common.
Rape victims often respond like this.
Just because they had a cordial working relationship doesn't mean she had to have sex with him.
Just because she was nice to him doesn't mean she had to have sex with him.
Just because she wanted to do work for him doesn't mean she had to have sex with him.
Just because she signed her emails with hearts doesn't mean she had to have sex with him.
Just because she didn't go to the police, who probably wouldn't believe her, to confront a powerful man who could ruin her career and hound her out of a life she loved, doesn't mean she had to have sex with him.
If she says she didn't want to have sex with him, she's the one who knows! She DIDN'T WANT to have sex with him. Ergo he raped her. What is not to understand about that?
My question is this:
When will folks get it through their thick heads:
ONLY YES MEANS YES.
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i'm sorry - she knew exactly what was going on. they had a quid pro quo relationship - he wanted sexual favors in exchange for career help. after the first bad experience she failed to help herself by terminating the relationship entirely, clearly on some level she felt he was valuable to her regardless of his demons.
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The situation Ms. Haley was in sounds so much like domestic violence. Evidently Mr. Weinstein was able to convince many women that submitting to him was the only way to succeed in show business. That's like a man beating his wife and convincing her that she can't leave. We know that many women may stay with an abusive partner, denying there's a problem - which is very hard for outside observers to understand. It's wrong to blame the victim - what a woman in such a situation needs is a way to get out. In a job situation, it's being able to find other jobs. And having the support of co-workers and supervisors who understand that such abusive behavior in any industry is wrong and unacceptable.
For the commenter who worries about her granddaughters, I have a suggestion: martial arts! Every girl should take a self-defense class. It's great exercise and could save your life.
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Maybe Meryl Streep can be called as a character witness. She did refer to Harvey as a "God, Harvey Weinstein, the punisher, Old Testament."
1
I am so confused...at what point was it okay to put up with harassment and potential rape for a career. I keep hearing these stories over and over again like we have no choice. My parents always told me it was time to leave if you were made to feel uncomfortable and powerless. There are other jobs, and if not, it’s not the industry for you. Your dignity mattered more than a career or money. Who wants to be in an industry that treated woman like that anyway?
19
My mother-in-law was a beautiful woman who, back in the 1930s, worked hard to become a good actress; but she quit when she realized that getting good parts might come with strings attached.
Instead, she went to college and graduate school and had a useful and rewarding life.
I applaud the actresses who call out sexual harassment, but I have a harder time with those who engaged in and profited by the system.
18
Harvey W. may be a world class creep who abused his power, but this story does not add up to putting him behind bars for an actual crime. These look like transactional relationships women negotiated or settled for in order to advance their acting careers or "buy cat food." American women, such as myself, are not helpless little girls. We can and should be expected to learn and adhere to boundaries and avoid getting into negative situations with males or anyone for that matter. As an attractive woman I have dealt with many boorish men, and/or unwanted advances. Absolving us of responsibility for interpersonal relations infantalizes us and is having severe blowback, such as, men no longer mentoring women, choosing women contractors, or having a drink after work with a female colleague. I have daughters and have taught them to set boundaries, adhere to them, communicate clearly, and avoid getting entangled with manipulative creeps like this guy.
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Many commenters are asking, “If she was attacked/raped/sexually abused, why did she ever see him again?
Well. Some women stick with their abusers because they believe they have no choice—-they are just not strong enough to extricate themselves from the situation, and have to play along for a while until they can escape.
This is especially true if the abuser is not only their employer, but someone with the power to blacklist them forever from their chosen line of work.
That may well be true about some of the women HW abused. But such behavior in no way changes the fact that their so-called “consensual relationships” with HW began with criminal, abusive attacks by the defendant. And it in no way obviates the perpetrator’s criminal liability.
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The human body has remarkable ways to protect itself. One is shock. Another is as described here, "checking out." That is such a common autonomous self-protective response to assault that defense lawyers should give up on deliberately misinterpreting it.
In his brilliant semiautobiographical five-novel series about Patrick Melrose, enacted by Benedict Cumberbatch in a 2018 Showtime miniseries, Edward St. Aubyn describes his own response to being raped by his father as a young child in the same way. Was that consensual?
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I’m at a loss on how to provide a fair trial to both the accused and the accuser in these cases.
The testimony of women who never filed charges prior to the expiration the statutes of limitations is inherently and overwhelmingly prejudicial. The late claims prevent a defendant from preparing a defense based on the timely investigation of the physical evidence and interviewing witnesses prior to memories going stale. Jurors are asked to make a finding of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt based testimony not tested by early investigation or a prior trial on the allegations they make.
I’m reminded of one of the witnesses in the Michael Brown investigation who made statements highly damaging to the police officer. Later, she admitted she hadn’t seen anything. When asked why she made the false allegation, she said she just wanted to be involved in something big.
That’s not an allegation that these witnesses are lying but an observation that people do lie on occasion for reasons known only to them or for no reasons at all.
It boils down to whether we’d really prefer that some guilty get acquitted than convict some innocent to insure no guilty go unpunished
10
Girl, if you happen to read the comments, let it be known: I believe you. I've been there--it takes a long time to process what happened and how to deal with it. You're incredible for being willing to go through this circus, knowing that you'll be attacked mercilessly. Thank you for telling the truth.
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@Eve Me too, in another kind of circumstance of abuse, but I understand fully. The lines become blurred and the confusion is such that one doesnt even think clearly about ones actions. Only fellow victims, or psychologists specialized in trauma, can fully understand these seeming contradictions in behavior.
21
People react to trauma in many different ways including Zoning Out or Freezing, Pretending it didn't happen, making it into something else and even displaying amicability. I've seen it in victims many times. It is a way of maintaining a sense of control over an event or situation and holding onto one's identity after having been attacked or hurt or even raped. No one can really know what is in a person's heart, but Ms Haley's reaction and continuing contact with the abuser is not unusual. It is why a person with a missing limb just blown off or shot or stabbed will say, "I'm Fine."
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I was hoping that Weinstein would be nailed but I'm afraid it won't happen based on this witness. Too much reasonable doubt I would think. I hope I'm wrong.
26
After she was raped once:
"..and she went to see him at the TriBeCa Grand Hotel. When she entered his room.."
Why would she enter his hotel room after being raped. I'm not "blaming the victim" but it doesn't add up.
65
Yep, you’re blaming the victim
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@Spandex Pony
Perhaps, but this is not the point. Mr. Weinstein's defense is going to take advantage of any perceived inconsistencies to discredit the character witnesses.
9
@Spandex Pony No, it is not blaming a victim to use empirical evidence to raise reasonable doubt in a criminal case - that is kind of the essence of what a criminal defense does, and it appears that Haley is not going to be able to be a very strong asset for the prosecution here.
26
Why do some people believe that being in a relationship precludes someone from being able to refuse having sex with their partner?
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@Richard Phelps
That's an awesome point. Yeah ,maybe they had some kind of relationship, and of course there was a professional relationship, but no means no.
If she said no and he forced himself, it's rape. None of that other stuff matters.
51
Why would the prosecutors call Ms Haley?
I understand this man's conduct towards women as a general proposition includes contact like that directed towards Haley, but this does not strike me as a winning strategy if the aim is a criminal conviction (which it surely should be.)
25
What we are when we fear the consequences of our actions is never going to be quite the same as when we feel immune to punishment, and there's a lot of evidence this is especially true of men- I really don't think we want to know what percentage of men would be rapists it they knew they wouldn't be punished for their crime.
Is the capacity to rape others embedded in our DNA? It is such an uncomfortable question but evidence shows that when cultural restraints are removed a lot of men go rogue, whether in war or in prison.
Some necessary evolution is simply required to occur through culture. When a woman says she was raped, in all probability she was, but he says-she says if not beyond reasonable doubt. When multiple women claim to have been raped by the same man, it's probably pretty open and shut.
Let our culture drive rape from the vocabulary of human behavior. Lock them up!
Another thing- any man caught on tape bragging of multiple sexual assaults should be excluded from any chance of becoming president.
69
Forcing sex on an unwilling person, even one who eventually numbly acquiesces, is rape no matter what, and I hope this guy - if guilty, which judging by all we've heard seems likely - goes to jail for it just like anybody who's not a famous, powerful, unappealing millionaire would.
Unrelated to that, I wonder why women, or even men, would agree to go alone to their boss' apartment if the boss is a known sexual predator, which Weinstein almost certainly was by everyone in the business at the time of these occurrences.
One assumes there was professional pressure on them to do so. Maybe they thought or hoped that sexual activity not going to be expected in their cases, or were just flattered to be asked. Whatever the reason, hopefully some of the women coming forward are willing to clarify that part of their experience if they haven't already. Could be helpful to others.
30
I find these Weinstein stories (and others like them--Epstein, Cosby, Lauer, Kelly) so disturbing. I have 2 beautiful granddaughters, both in high school. One has always been involved in theatre & musical performance & will start college next year with this interest in mind. They are such sweet girls, but I fear for them. They are used to being around loving, trustworthy adults, what defense would they have around such predators? I recall having to handle early in life the sexual aggression of boys & men.
I prod my son to talk to them frankly about these likely incidents, make sure he warns them and tells them what to do, who to talk to if something happens. And I'm 100% sure something will. Why? Because law enforcement has been so reluctant to go after these guys & so skillful at intimidating the women involved. That Epstein was actually protected & allowed to continue his predation worldwide is shocking & unforgivable. That these attorneys, powerful & highly accomplished, rush to defend these guys by pointing out that they deserve the best defense, often pro bono, nauseates me. They rarely rush to defend the poor, the women, in these instances.
I almost wish I didn't have such sweet, lovely granddaughters because I dread what is in store for them.
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@Macktan
Defense attorneys do not represent accused victims in any legal capacity because the parties in a criminal case are the accused and the State.
Maybe you are thinking of the civil attorneys who end up suing these guys?
I'm pretty sure no one is trying to represent accused rapists for free.
6
@EDM Lawyers will if they feel the evidence is not sufficient and he accused rights are being denied.
You’re assuming the accused is guilty, first of all, resolving all doubt in favor of the women. You should afford him due process. A lot of the women accusing him had consensual relationships with him long after the incidents ... which is an inconvenient fact for those alleging forced rape. Also, re: your grandchildren, teach them to be skeptical of men in power and avoid getting into obviously difficult situations. This guy is no doubt a creep and maybe a criminal (we’ll see), but to most of my female friends the whole situation would be completely avoided out of a shred of skepticism. Don’t go back to this guy’s room, don’t get drunk w/ him, don’t invite him to yours.
23
Wow, the defense is gaslighting. Just because a woman lets a man into her apartment doesn't mean she's inviting him to have sex. What is this, 1950?
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