Am I the only one who is tired of reading about Bernie Sanders? Three articles in three days all supporting the candidate who wrote a rape essay and shouts at his wife. One would think no one else is running. C'mon, Prof. Müller. No one cares if he's a Socialist or Marxist. He's a demagogue just like Trump. I expect better from the NY Times.
5
I would agree that Sanders may turn out to be the best alternative, given the way the Democratic field has evolved. I would agree that, unlike Trump and some populists abroad, Sanders is not a threat to democracy. I would vote for Sanders should he be the Democratic nominee. But this article significantly downplays his demagogic tendencies and the ways in which his campaign does sometimes resemble a left-wing version of Trumpism.
Sanders' tendency to promise pie in the sky is deeply unsettling. "Free college" is as impractical and unlikely as Trump's wall. So many of his policies are non-starters politically, ideas that would never get off the ground in Congress, as Sanders surely knows after decades of failing to build a coalition behind them in the Senate.
And let's not pretend billionaires have been the sole focus of Sanders' rage. Try asking any "Bernie Bro" about Hillary. It's no coincidence that so many Sanders' supporters voted for Trump, unable to draw a distinction between Clinton--whom they decried as a "corporate whore" for not being liberal enough--and Trump, a real threat to American democracy. They believed what Bernie told them.
I remain uncertain about Sanders. He seems to me extremely vulnerable to the negative campaigning Trump will throw at him, and even if he wins, he seems uniquely unsuited to break the partisan gridlock that would likely strangle any policy initiatives. But if the choice is him or Trump, that's not a difficult choice to make.
5
This is going to be interessting. The first thing to remember is that thr NYTimes commentariat is NOT representative of the electorate. Second is that the election process, unfortunately gives the underpopulated parts of the country muh more say than the population centers.
So my gurss is that if Bernie is the democratic nominee, we'll see Trump winning a second term
Livng down here in NC, no one likes Trump, but they'll still vote for him if someone like Sanders or Warren is the alternative
4
"The Gulag Archipelago" became available in English in 1974 and created an enormous stir. Sanders honeymooned in the USSR in 1988. If he had done so in the 1930s or 40s (like a lot of American leftists of the day), I would say that he was just taken in by Uncle Joe's propaganda. But in 1988, he had to be purposely blind, and it seriously calls his judgement into question.
4
Bernie is a populist and Muller is a polemicist -- at least in this column. This column would be far more compelling if Muller conceded that Bernie was in fact a left populist and proceeded to discuss the pro's and con's for the Republic of that particular stance. However, almost everything that has been written regarding candidates has had a specific outcome in mind -- either in terms of primaries or the election. (Perhaps this is inevitable given the toxic nature of the current presidency.) However, at least one noted scholar has written positively regarding Bernie as a left populist, that is, Chantel Mouffe -- whose characterization frank and cogent.
ettps://www.theguardian.com/books/2018/jul/07/left-populism-chantal-mouffe-leftwing-popular-movement-race-nation
1
@Jane Doe,Oh goodness -- a foot note. The Guardian outlines Mouffe's position. It doesn't fully support it. Mouffe's scholarly work also available for those with time/interest. Thanks for your patience, all!
1
It is Chantal.
3
There is a saying in Psalms: "Who is wise? He who learns from all men".
Bernie Sanders is not my top choice to defeat Trump, but using rallies effectively does not seem like a problem to me.
4
Kinda tired of the kneejerk response of Sanders people to all and any criticism here and pretty much everywhere pretty much all of the time. That response is, in and of itself, a refutation of the assertion made here in this opinion piece, namely, that Sanders and his people are nothing like Trump and his people. Your guy is human. Sometimes he makes mistakes. We all do. All of the candidates do. You and your guy are responding to criticism just like Trump and the Trump minions do, by doubling down, never apologizing, hitting back below the belt.
6
Gibberish.
Mr. Muller never did explain why we should stop calling Sanders a populist.
Frankly, there really is no single, definition of "populist".
I think of them as placing the needs of the people, or some specific group, on the same plane as those of the nation.
That's just me, and I would definitely call Bernie a populist.
5
Somewhere Eugene V. Debs is smiling . . . .
3
The difference is Bernie is a real populist and Trump is a fake populist. Or you could even just say left wing populist versus right wing populist. Where the right wing populist (Trump) is racist and sexist, Bernie on the other hand doesn't blame minorities on the nation's problems but rather the corrupt elite.
8
I don't understand why Trump is referred to as a populist. He is not. He's a narcissist and a puppet of establishment republicans.
Bernie Sanders is a true populist and he will appeal to the working class Trump voters.
7
@MS
I think millions of people who voted for Trump, would have voted for Bernie if he had been the Democrat's choice in 2016.
I'm one of them. We just couldn't stomach Hillary's fake "campaign" and her sense of entitlement. You have to EARN the right to be President, as Trump did in his campaign.
The DNC leadership actively conspired to get Hillary Clinton (and her utterly uninspired campaign) the Democratic nomination in 2016.
This is what the Russians exposed before the election, and why Wasserman-Schultz had to resign. This is how the Russians "meddled" in our election (They exposed the truth!).
It's a shame, because Bernie would have beaten Trump.
This is pretty poor behavior, but few Democrats or liberals will even acknowledge that it occurred.
8
Bernie Sanders is a populist.
The core of his message much like Trump is the dichotomy between Us and Them. For Trump the them is immigrants and people of color. For Bernie the them is anyone who is more successful that you are.
The message remains the same. They got what they have unfairly, and they took that from you and I'm and going to get back for you what you are owed from them, but even more so I'm going to punish them for their evil misdeeds.
This is an argument based in anger, demands purity of its membership, and fuels hate. Watching a Trump rally is repulsive but the scorched earth attacks are mirrored in the nastiness of Bernie's supporters and surrogates.
The only difference between the two is who they want to lock up. Both are are threat to democracy.
4
Sander's being inspired by Denmark is a prime example of how crazy and vapid I consider his thinking and, by extension, dangerous to our democracy.
Denmark, a country with a population less than Minnesota, has one of the highest gross debt levels in the world, ranks lower than Greece and Slovenia on the global healthcare index and has a monarchy signed and paid for by its docile supplicants. And they're very good at marking "we're happy'' on happiness surveys regardless of whether they are or not.
But it's cool to talk about and that's what counts for populists like Bernie.
3
Funny -- the lede says, "...voters perceive him as always being his same sincere, authentic self."
And my impression has always been that there's a part of him that is as phony as pleather.
Sanders' head might be partly in the right place, but his presentation is always awkward, bullying, and somewhat pedantic. Plus, he's a boor.
There's still something about him that I (and so many others) find completely inauthentic and I cannot put my finger on it.
6
I hate the term "liberal centrists". Can we just call them moderate Republicans? The Republicans have moved so far right since Regan that there is no longer much of a "center".
Sanders and Warren, who are usually portrayed as foaming-at-the-mouth communists, are in fact simply liberals.
Everyone else to the right of them are to varying degrees conservative because they like the way things are right now, thank you very much.
6
One of the things I ask myself when considering a presidential candidate is whether I could stand to hear his or her voice every day. In Sanders’ case, the answer is “No.” He just irritates me when he speaks. When I read his words I don’t have the same reaction. I think it’s his anger.
3
Bernie Sanders is a destroyer of the Democratic Party.
4
Reading all these moderate Dems (ie 90-2000s republicans) is really pushing me to Bernie. I liked him before but now I know he will beat Trump. I bet a lot of you against him would try to throw Hillary up again if you could.
7
For heavens sake, voting folks at the ballot box decide on what's good for them and for the country. Last time I checked most don't have a PhD in political science and don't spend time figuring the objective of analysts who write and spiel obviously biased articles—as does this one.
7
"It has been claimed that both are populists, both divisive, both ready to break norms, both attack the news media, both have cult followings ..."
I'm sorry. There are many similarities between Sanders and his supporters, and Trump and his base. And these things are just a few of them. Moreover, Sanders is, indeed, a populist according to the textbook definition of populist. Look it up. Trump who has been called a populist is not one. He is a textbook demagogue. Populist is not a pejorative term but demagogue is. Now sometimes Sanders does tiptoe along that demagogue line. There is a difference between a president who never had any intention of fulfilling his populist promises and a president who believes in his pie-in-the-sky promises but has zero probability of carrying them out. Do we want to replace one president who spends all his time at rallies with another who will spend all his time at rallies? Do we want to replace one my-way-or-the-highway president with another my-way-or-the-highway president? Those are some of the questions I have about Sanders. And they are perfectly valid.
6
I went to an excellent out of state university in the 1970s. My four years including, tuition, fees, room & board and books would equate in today's dollars to a grand total of $22,400 for all four years. That same degree at that same University today will cost (drum roll please) $185,000. But, that's not even half the story. The other half of the story is that the degree I received in the 1970s was worth more on the market, than it is today.
What I am getting at is this - we are charging young adults and their parents 5 and 1/2 times more for a college degree today than in the 1970s and that same degree is only worth 2/3 as much as it was then. This in a nutshell is why we have cries for socialist policies, especially from Millennials.
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Bernie is the most humble modest politician in US. He is also truly honest with highest integrity. Even his critics agree with that. Bernie has been pushing for the same things for 40 years and history has shown he has been right all along. He is also the most influential politician. He single-handledly moved the democratic base to the left (from the center where Hillary/Biden stand). Because of Bernie, medicare for all, minimum wage, income inequality, free public college are now very important mainstream issues.
10
This article was written by someone who claims to be an expert on "populism"? The term used to mean any politician who called himself (or herself) or who pretended to be "a spokesperson for the people." It was always a term defined and used very loosely and, depending on who was using it or whom it was pinned on, could have either positive or negative connotations and could describe politicians on either the left or right. (Huey Long earned the sobriquet, so did Ronald Reagan.)
Will only say this, if Bernie Sanders isn't a populist (and proudly so), then the term has truly become meaningless.
7
Who is equating 'populism' with 'anti-establishment'. This appears to be a creation of the author of the article.
The entire article is simple strawman reasoning. Define something in exactly the way you need to to be able to knock it down.
No one is arguing Sanders is like Trump in any meaningful way. No one.
2
@Steve
Have you read these comments? Some people clearly are.
3
Bernie scares voters who would otherwise vote democrat but are worried he would mess with the economy (assuming it’s still booming come election.) so how do we allude those fears and get the voters who hate Trump to vote democrat? You ensure them that the economy will be in good hands with the candidate trying to beat him. Who is the best candidate to ensure the country that the economy will not only continue to boom but grow as well? How about A self made billionaire with MAJOR public service experience and who has done more for progressive causes then the Democratic Party has in 40 years. That man is Michael Bloomberg.
5
Many of our democratic institutions are fragile, in that they rely on public confidence for them to function.
Trump's threat to democracy comes from his undermining confidence in our institutions, the courts, elections, the press, our justice system.
Sure, Bernie Sanders is not even close to Trump.
But when he is silent when his supporters claim the 2016 elections was "rigged", or that the DNC actively interfered with his campaign, that omissions of mention in the media are part of an organized plot by the "establishment" to suppress his campaign, or that anyone taking a contribution from a business interest must necessarily be corrupted by it, he is doing the same sort of damage.
Editorials like these do not occur in a vacuum. It come in response to observations by many, bot just "critics" or "centrists".
And regarding consensus. Nothing durable is achieved without broad consensus. No one is going to be forced into accept something that they strongly disagree with for very long. In politics, the ability to build ture consensus in mot capitulation, it's talent.
If a Democrat wins the next election percent or two, we will be right where are now, with no common sense of national purpose, getting nothing done. We are at a point where the argument itself is more of a problem than the things we are arguing about.
4
@RD
The DNC leadership actively conspired to get Hillary Clinton (with an utterly uninspired campaign) the Democratic nomination in 2016.
This is what the Russians exposed before the election, and why Wasserman-Schultz had to resign. This is how the Russians "meddled" in our election (they exposed the truth).
It's a shame, because Bernie would have beaten Trump.
This is pretty poor behavior, but few Democrats or liberals will even acknowledge that it occurred.
5
Sander's ideas may indeed be inspired by Denmark: but bear in mind it is a tiny country (as is Sweden and Norway) where the democratic socialist philosophy works well as a way of governing . Here in America , there is the wild west of open carry guns , racial divide , bias , elitism , populism , opposition to government , it runs the gamut because it is a country that truly is a melting pot that has descended into divisiveness because of its' size and the influence of many ways of thinking . That is the price of freedom . Mr. Sanders may be the opposite of Trump but is just as entrenched in his way of thinking ; he is not the answer .
4
Bernie Sanders is the best chance Democrats have to take the workers back from Republicans. The question is whether they are interested in doing that. Going center has changed the party, its constituency and its policies, which are shaped now for the upper half of the country. It's an honest question, the New York Times rejects it, for one. And Bernie's age is not a reason to vote against, but for his nomination because it's the last chance for a long time. There's no one quite like him.
If Republicans lose the workers, they're in deep trouble.
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@Liz
Newspaper endorsements mean nothing today,people are getting their information from independent sources.
Sorry to disappoint traditional democrats but Bernie Sanders has a Trump-like following that is only growing.
The democrats party is going hard left, Sanders is a liberal Trump type figure; his rise to the top is only surprising to those who get their information from the mainstream media.
2
@MichaelStein
Yes, Bernie is speaking to those who resent "business as usual" politicians. I do not concede at all that he is a "Trump type figure." They are miles apart in character and policies. As an example, I see no photos of Trump being arrested in the defense of others' civil rights.
10
@Liz In other words , throw them a loaf of bread instead of crumbs ? I don't hear Bernie advocating for the forgotten lower half ; he seems to advocate more for and to the disgruntled middle half who make a career of being disaffected .The working poor don't seem to count .
4
Increasingly, every time I read the comments section of any piece about Bernie Sanders I come to understand just a little bit more that the new democratic party doesn't want people like me in it. I'm constantly informed that I am a "corporate democrat" - whatever that means (last I checked I'm a secretary.) There is no space in this platform for people with the ideas and fears that I have as a voter. In all honesty, it feels very Trumpian - get on board or get out of the way. So, I guess other than voting locally I may do just that- get on out of the way. I'm really tired of being told I'm a shill. I would absolutely have been considered a liberal 5 years ago and I haven't changed. I'm not leaving the party - the party left me.
63
Except that Sanders isn’t a Democrat. Don’t get out of the way.
35
it would be interesting to list the top ten issues you are concerned with and your position on them. Then list where Bernie is on those same issues. I thought he might be too far left for me but when i did this i aligned with him on 8 out of 10. With trump and the gop I got to zero.
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@Lauren I feel the same way as you do sometimes. But don't let that stop you from voting in the first place. If Bernie winds up being the nominee, of course I'll vote for him, even though he's not my first choice. Same if it's Biden or Warren or Klobuchar. Any one of these would make a far better President than who we have in place now.
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Thanks to Prof. Müller for writing this, and to the Times for publishing it. Times columnist David Brooks has repeatedly compared Sanders to Trump, while Bret Stephens compares him to Fidel Castro. Both columnists are off-the-mark.
"Populism" has been a potent force in American politics for decades. If populist anger is not turned toward a good purpose like reducing economic inequality, demagogues like Donald Trump will continue to stoke populist rage and turn it against immigrants and minorities. Sanders and Warren seem to be the only Democratic candidates who understand this.
210
@Chris Rasmussen This is such a good point, Mr. Rasmussen. Experts agree that we've seen a dramatic spike in populist anger across the globe, but especially in the developed world. Your point about being sure to direct that anger towards positive change is smart. A centrist democratic candidate will not make any voters who feel disaffected feel heard and could serve to fan the flames of populism.
22
@Chris Rasmussen I totally agree, but you forgot to mention Paul Krugman who also trashed Sanders.
9
The criticism of Sanders jeopardizing the Republic is not rooted in him being labeled as a populist. It is silly to get hung up on that label, whether it is accurate or not. (Although, he does resemble in many ways Huey Long, who I think qualifies as a populist and advocated some of the same positions found in Sanders' platform. )
Many of us agree with some of Sanders points about inequality and that those need to be fixed, but his solutions are simply inane. That is the real criticism of Sanders as many of his ideas appear to be authored by someone that has no real experience in the working world.
If any use of labels here is harmful, it is slapping the term "Centrist" on anyone who does not take an extreme Progressive position. References to Denmark as a successful democracy as a means to justify those socialist polices is disingenuous at best as that country in no way resembles the diverse population, geography, economy and history of the US. Except, perhaps, Mr. Sanders own homogeneous Vermont.
There are many problems to be solved. Trump is responsible for making some worse. But the answer does not necessarily lie in going to the other extreme. Reason needs to prevail, and both extremes are very short on that quality.
6
@Dr. Strangelove
"References to Denmark as a successful democracy as a means to justify those socialist polices is disingenuous at best as that country in no way resembles the diverse population, geography, economy and history of the US."
Two points:
1) Apart from Denmark, there are plenty of other European countries that are BOTH ethnically diverse AND socially responsible (NOT "socialist", see point 2 below). Examples are Germany and France. Yes, these countries are smaller than the US, but, well, we somehow make Medicare and Social Security work out just in our large country. So you can't just dismiss European countries as irrelevant to the debate. Aside from Canada, they are the best models of what a social democracy - NOT democratic socialism! - looks like.
2) Denmark, Germany, and Frances are NOT socialist countries. They are social democracies with free market - yes, that's right, capitalist - economies. So are Finland, Norway, Sweden, Spain, etc. etc.
As I've said here before, Sanders needs to stop using the label "democratic socialism", as this is not what his platform actually is.
4
@Robert One of my great pet peeves over the last few years is that people don't seem to be able to distinguish between social democracy and socialism. I am a social democrat, and will vote that way. I wouldn't vote for a socialist with a gun held to my head. I want my candidates to know the difference.
5
Our bad: Bernie is *democratic* socialist. Which is kind of a socialist, one that believes in elections. One election: to dismantle the most successful economic system ever dreamed of, to abolish the private property that is at its base, to initiate the extreme regulation that will kill it (all the while swearing it is mere reform). After that, we won't need elections.
Sanders is not a populist; he is an elitist. He is a throwback to the fantasy of a vanguard of intellectuals who will lead the workers into the intellectuals' idea of the paradise they ought to be content with. Such men are dangerous.
5
Here's tp Bernie- a 60s freedom fighter who stayed true to his beliefs!
7
I'll vote for any Democrat except Sanders...and Gabbard.
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@Jim
Is it just a coincidence that those are the two people Hillary Clinton hates?
5
Stick to potatoes. Intelligence is not your forte. At least with respect to Bernie. Tulsi G is a fruit cake so may go nicely with a baked potato.
2
pop·u·list | \ ˈpä-pyə-list \
noun
A person, especially a politician, who strives to appeal to ordinary people who feel that their concerns are disregarded by established elite groups.
44
@RD Thanks for this RD - every time people use populism to equate with evil I get confused. Populism, in my mind, is about the will of the people. And the people really are sick of being ignored by the billionaire class. So what if Bernie's a populist? That's the whole reason why I think he's got my best interests in mind.
15
@A.H. Agreed. Great person to read is historian Thomas Frank. American populism is his area of specialty.
"What's The Matter With Kansas" and "Listen Liberal" are especially of interest. The latter traces how the Democratic Party very purposefully turned its back on the New Deal and working class base. (He has lectures online from when he was promoting the book as well.)
5
Bernie used to tout Venezuela's Socialism as a model to follow. Now that it has failed, he has flip-flopped to Denmark as his "new way". However, many of his supporters still support Venezuela, as bad as it has been confirmed it is. For example, Danny Glover has been campaigning for Bernie this week, while still actively defending Maduro who is responsible for many Venezuelans' deaths.
I am not sure that I can trust Bernie and his "Bros" to successfully lead America.
8
I agree that Bernie is not a populist. But I also think he'd make an abysmal president. I don't see him as "sincere, authentic," he reads more "angry, complaining, dividing" to me.
7
Bernie or any of the democratic candidate won’t win in 2020 though they don’t realize it yet. 4 more years of Trump gives me plenty of time to get my affairs in order to exit the US if necessary.
Bernie is a socialist of the worse type. Anyone would be a better choice than him though I fully expect the establishment to throw him under the bus before it is all done.
4
The voters in the Democratic primaries and caucuses will have the ultimate say. The people will decide who the nominee of our party is. If you don't like it, tough; vote for Trump or stay home and watch what happens to your beloved country between now and 2025 and beyond.
4
@ marsha Pembroke.....One of the errors of Socialism is that it assumes that the economy is a zero sum game. The inevitable result of that assumption is class warfare. There is evidence to support that claim almost everywhere Socialism has been applied. The only exceptions have been in small countries with little or no ethnic diversity.
1
@W.A. Spitzer - Canada is an enormous country with considerable ethnic diversity. Visit Vancouver or Toronto and tell me otherwise. Yes, its population is significantly smaller than America's, but what does that have to do with cultural orientations or the viability of any particular policy?
Canada is more like us than any other country in the world, yet they've got a very popular national healthcare system and comparatively affordable higher education. They were not nearly as badly harmed by the recession as we were. Why haven't these "socialist" and regulatory policies caused Canada to descend into a totalitarian hellhole? You know, the "road to serfdom" and that all paranoid nonsense? Why haven't the Canadian people, who after all live in a democracy, not risen up and voted to abandon their healthcare system and adopt ours?
Also, it's neoliberal economists and their devotees who believe the economy is a "zero sum game." In their model the already well-off win everything; the non-elite work harder and get less. The Sanders/Warren supporters are advocating for a mixed economy with both market-based and socialist elements. It works in every other affluent nation in the world. Absent the kind of silly red-baiting you've rehashed above, it will eventually work for us too.
8
I have no idea if Mr. Sanders is a populist or not. What he says is that he is a Democratic Socialist.
The DSA - Democratic Socialists of America define democratic socialism as follows.
"Democratic socialists believe that both the economy and society should be run democratically—to meet public needs, not to make profits for a few. To achieve a more just society, many structures of our government and economy must be radically transformed through greater economic and social democracy so that ordinary Americans can participate in the many decisions that affect our lives."
My problem with their schtick is that they are never specific what these "radical transformations" will be or how they will work. They are saying, trust us we will do a good job. Right!
Every time the socialist party takes over a government they always claim to be democratic but instead always devolve into dictatorships.
By the way none of the countries in Europe are examples of Democratic Socialism. They are all capitalist countries with a wider welfare net than the US.
Bernie is my last choice but if he is the Democratic nominee I will vote for him in hopes that the Congress will keep him from doing anything really stupid.
8
If these radical changes are ever made most can forget a comfy retirement resulting from a lifetime of saving and sacrifice as well as a steady stock market rising slowly over a lifetime. Those who did little to nothing will be rewarded where is everyone else will suffer.
@JimH
A cancer diagnosis wipes out your well saved savings in two months. Your family getting dementia wipes out your hard earned savings in three moths.
Your hard earned scarfices came from having opportunities that others did not. Spoken like a true elite. We need to force corporations to do their responsibility to the American worker, and stop being nothing but a taker. We need health care, we need quality schools. Your life is no more valuable to your family members as is my life to my family.
We can all work together so justice is a new way at looking at our social compact with each other,
If we don't change our ways we are doomed as a society, the writing is in bold letters already on the wall.
3
I think what's really needed here is an article entitled "Don't Call Bernie Sanders a Socialist". Because he isn't one.
7
An odd, simplistic yet valid perspective: If Americans can absorb, deaf and blind, pejoratives about "capitalism," the system of buying and selling things and owning what you earn (of course there are problems caused by human nature and government), then we surely deserve to disparage "socialism," which deservedly has the worst possible reputation as government control of everyone's lives, under the mirage of egalitarianism.
1
Under the mirage of 'individual freedom,' corporate interests manipulate the political system to enslave the workers and reduce them to powerless poverty.
Socialism breaks the hold of the super rich on society. Socialist democracy makes the government serve, instead, the vast majority--the working class.
2
I disagree with Bernie Sanders on some issues. Maybe I'm right; maybe he's right. But I can tell you this: whatever he will do as president, right or wrong, it will be because he believes that it is in the best interest of working people in the USA and elsewhere.
There has never been a president like that since Abraham Lincoln. We need someone like him more than ever.
9
This did not strike me as either helpful or accurate elucidation of what distinguishes Bernie's perspective.
What I hear Sanders doing is actually an appeal to what might be called 'economic patriotism' and could perhaps best be voiced to "you" billionaires rather than "they," because it's an overdue outing of a lack of conscience among those who have profited most for all that our society provides and allows ... and is too taken for granted by self-serving capitalism (as in "He wins who has the most toys.").
Bernie is targeting exploitation and irresponsibility rather than a "class" - he's targeting the billionaires who are circumventing even the current modest tax bracket they're in and paying zero taxes. He's targeting a mentality that says (as Obama tried to do and failed to defend his intent in 2012) "I built my fortune all on my own and I deserve to keep all my billions for my own discretion."
It's a mentality that ignores just how steeply the billionaires (and multimillionaires) have received exponential advantage from taxpayers and public investment, and this isn't even considering all the corporate welfare that their lobbying and quid-pro-quo campaign contributions get them. This concerns the basics: all the public infrastructure and public airwaves and protections of the environment, police, fire, all the public educations and health provisions that supply them and their subsidiary suppliers with both workers and consumers who make and buy their products.
6
Until and unless Mr. Sanders strongly breaks with the "Bernie Bros.," I will continue to call him a populist for the same reason I call a rose a rose.
4
@Ken D'Ambrosio You say that as if your precious Hillary didn't have her own team of zealots.
2
@Jim - Unlike many Bernie Bros, Hillary’s supporters didn’t viciously go after those who didn’t support her — especially women. Unlike Bernie’s campaign team, Hillary’s campaign team didn’t hack into other opponents’ voter data base. And now Unca Bernie is targeting Democrats — oh, I forgot! That’s what he always does! I marvel at how many people Bernie can fool.
1
As a lifelong Democrat, I will never vote for Bernie Sanders. He is no better than Trump, and his followers are just as awful.
Sanders is the most divisive candidate by far in the democratic field - he does nothing but polarize people, and if he is the nominee, it is sure he will lose to Trump. Swing state voters will not vote for him, and other dems and independents will stay at home - not able to vote for either him nor Trump with a good conscience.
7
@Joe
Bernie's an FDR Democrat. Would you have opposed FDR too?
Here's actual Bernie on 10/20/19:
“I want you all to take a look around and find someone you don’t know, maybe somebody who doesn’t look kind of like you, who might be of a different religion, maybe who come from a different country… My question now to you, is are you willing to fight for that person who you don’t even know as much as you’re willing to fight for yourself? Are you willing to stand together and fight for those people who are struggling economically in this country? Are you willing to fight for young people drowning in student debt, even if you are not? Are you willing to fight to ensure that every American has health care as a human right, even if you have good health care? Are you willing to fight for frightened immigrant neighbors, even if you are native born? Are you willing to fight for a future for generations of people who have not yet even been born, but are entitled to live on a planet that is healthy and habitable? Because if you are willing to do that, if you are willing to fight for a government of compassion and justice and decency, if you are willing to stand up to Trump’s desire to divide us up, if you are prepared to stand up to the greed and corruption of the corporate elite, if you and millions of others are prepared to do that, there is no doubt in my mind that not only will we win this election, but together we will transform this country. Thank you all very much.”
3
Democratic Socialism not= Social Democracy. Every time I see someone talk about "Scandinavian Democratic Socialism", the quarter part of me that is Swede dies a little.
3
I think originally Bernie Sanders was labeled a populist as a nod to the populists of the 1890s-1910s. That's tricky because those populists were vast and not consistent in their beliefs, but the seemingly shared qualities was the idea of a broad-based, worker-oriented, anti-elite movement that aimed to redistribute wealth and nationalize certain important services (the railroads for the 19th century populists, healthcare for Bernie Sanders).
I think Progressive is a clearer label for Sanders and doesn't get people bogged down in the lack of clarity about what populism is, but part of why the populist label has become meaningless is that it was applied to Donald Trump in a totally inappropriate way. There's nothing populist about him except for his misapplied rhetoric.
3
Also please stop calling Bernie Sanders a Democrat.
Can't the Democrats find a Democrat to represent them? The party is being hijacked by outsiders like AOC and Sanders who themselves concede are not Democrats - they're Democratic Socialists. However they define the concept - which seems to depend, to a significant extent, on whoever the audience is - there shouldn't be any reasonable dispute that Democratic Socialism is something else than the core ideology of the Democratic Party (Sanders himself must agree to that, otherwise he would simply call himself a Democrat).
Sanders is not unlike Trump in some important respects: they're both outsiders who do not belong ideologically to the party whose leadership they seek; they both espouse ideologically extreme views and seek to ostracize the moderates in their parties; and they both have supporters whose fanatic zealotry they condone by failing to disavow.
Sanders' Twitterverse supporters - proud ideological descendants of the Jacobins - are as vicious against anyone they perceive as impure as any of Trump's supporters. As they seek to exclude every Democratic moderate, they'll discover that their circle of purity is very, very small, and most Americans will want no part of it. If Sanders wins the primary, his supporters will have handed Trump another four years in the White House, and the Democratic Party will have itself to blame for allowing a party outsider to hijack it.
6
@Alan Why is it so important that he be a card-carrying Democrat? Is it because your party elite will only accept a malleable stooge in the White House?
As over one-third of the electorate are independents, you need to at least pretend that the Democratic Party respects and considers people by who they are, not their labels. Be more open-minded.
5
@Alan
Is the issue Bernie not being a card-carrying Democrat or is it he's too progressive for you? How about Tulsi Gabbard? She's a true-blue Democrat.
2
Wealth and class envy have been taken to a new level by millionaires Sanders and Warren, who try to buy votes by claiming that since all rich people "stole their money," it is acceptable to tax them more than their yearly incomes to give away college educations, student loans, health insurance, etc. Their self serving narratives never address simply re-allocating existing tax revenue and/or taking action to reduce the costs of tuition, health care, housing, etc. Why? Because they obviously feel that won't buy them votes.
3
Ty Professor Muller.
In November the choice may well be between Mr Trump and Mr Sanders. Who knows?
US voters should read your last paragraph carefully.
2
Senator Sanders is not problematic because he is a populist; the anti-gold standard populists helped our country in many ways.
Senator Sanders is a concern because he is a demagogue, by every definition of the word. He has almost no detailed policies, nor does he have presentable plans to pay for the general policies he advocates; yet he says he is the only true representative of the "revolution" simply because he's always pushed broad reforms without specifics. In over forty years, he's never gotten one bill through Congress, yet he claims this means he should be elected to a higher office since he won't compromise. And he uses _ad hominmen_ attacks against those who present facts he doesn't like - as with the doctored video that made Biden's quote of Paul Ryan sound like his own words, as shared by those in his campaign who are close to him.
He is not as broken or as destructive as Donald Trump, but he is clearly the extreme Left's answer to Donald Trump. Supporters of both reject what is workable or factual in favor of visceral responses. Yet the U.S. is being undone by exactly this kind of viscera.
8
The author makes an important distinction between targeting/villainizing a group who has power, affluence and authority and one that is oppressed, themselves - especially if the privileged group CAUSES hardship to the lower group to a significant degree.
But to be fair to Trump - which is a VERY important exercise for liberals to do (especially before a general election) - he and his supporters, by and large, do NOT demonize minorities, per se. They may demonize illegal or undocumented workers, who do tend to be minorities. But it is wrong to conclude that most Trump supporters are racists because some may be, just as it is wrong to conclude the worst about a minority group because of the behavior of a small subset within it. IMO, this unfair generalization (or demonization) of Trump supporters is used by the democratic establishment and mainstream media for their own political/financial purposes.
5
Well said. Bernie Sanders is breaking the norm that Obama and the Clintons furthered. Good riddance. It gave us Bush, Trump and McConnell. It is not inciting hatred to point out accurately that one class of people, the ultra rich and their mega corporations, have stolen our democracy and are running roughshod over the rest of us, aided by corrupt politicians and those afraid to call a spade a spade. Go Bernie!
9
I don't see any point in using labels nobody really knows the meaning of. We end up just arguing about the label and not the problems that need to be solved. Everybody knows the healthcare system is too expensive, too complicated and fails too many people. Let's talk about how to fix it. Everybody knows wages aren't keeping up with costs and too many people don't earn enough for a decent standard of living. Let's talk about how to fix that. Everybody knows good-paying jobs for most people require some higher education and it's too expensive. Let's fix that. Capitalist? Socialist? Populist? Who cares! Let's get it done.
3
I couldn't help but notice that the NY Times picks of comments is weighted towards those that are against Sanders, even though that isn't reflected in the number of "Recommends" as opposed to the actual Reader Picks.
12
@Jim
Yes, I noticed that nearly all of the NYT picks are negative toward Bernie.
As Bernie noted in his recent interview with the NYT editorial board, a lot of people feel the NYT let them down in its coverage of the 2016 election.
That the NYT did publish this opinion piece suggests it's attempting to repair its record. But you're right, the prejudices are not hard to find.
4
Sanders does not only vilify the "billionaire class" but he accuses them of robbing the welfare of the working class. Where have we heard that before Mr. Mueller? Typical nationalsocialist/communist rhetoric. Besides rhetoric, the practice of burdening the successful to pay for the way for the unsuccessful has never worked out in reality, see the SU or German Democratic Republic or....
And then there is the math. Sander's ideology requires universal health care to be a human right. Says who? All the people refusing to pay for their mandatory premiums certainly do not agree. The math says that a nation of largely obese, diabetic or pre-diabetic, drug addicted, alcoholic, dysfunctional people, does not earn enough money to pay for all the free medical care they desire. On top of that, Sanders' ideology ignores the gigantic healthcare fraud underway now, with doctors freely partaking, not just desperate patients, which will balloon in a all you can eat healthcare buffet. This is where Bernie Sanders is more like Karl Marx, then any American politician before him. And that is why the Democrats will lose the election if he became their candidate. If that isn't bad enough, without a heavily Democratic congress, he will not be able to implement any of his plans, and instead will create more derisive division then we already have.
Amy Klobuchar is the only realistic Democratic candidate.
8
@LHP Have you heard of Denmark? Sweden? The UK has a national health service. Are they socialist wastelands? If Sanders were around in the 1940s, we would be a middle of the road, New Deal democrat. He is not a radical. The current US system is what is radical
14
@Tommy G
I lived in them. For good long time. It takes weeks to get an appointment. And while you're waiting for your doctor's ten minutes with you, the waiting room is crammed full with all kinds of patients with all kinds of diseases. You go in with one ailment, and come out with a few more. Europe is NOT a good healthcare model, it is industrial, paint by the numbers, hurry up and wait medicine. I lived it. But their prescription/pharmacy set up is worth copying. The pharmacists there diagnose/prescribe effective medication to common ailments, but that's because it takes weeks/months to see a doctor.
3
@LHP - Your rhetoric is every bit as typical as that which you are disparaging. These are just FOX news talking points, peppered with a few off-the-cuff fever dreams about "a nation of largely obese" citizens who fail to embrace personal responsibility, the "bootstrap" work ethic, and so on.
The recent surge in support for the Sanders/Warren perspective isn't coming from some vast unwashed mass of ne'er-do-wells; it's in large part coming from educated, hard working young (and often not so young) working class and middle class strivers who have finally had to confront just how rigged the casino really is. This has pretty much nothing to do with the scary specter of Karl Marx.
Also, your overworked crystal ball aside, there's more at stake electorally in 2020 than just the White House. Several Republican senate seats are vulnerable, and it's odd that I have to point this out--but the house is already controlled overwhelmingly by Democrats. If Sanders wins (or Warren) and four or five senate seats go blue--it's legislating time come January 2021.
3
In other words, it is ok to incite hatred as long as the ones you hate are perceived as powerful. By this metric, antisemitism is ok because Jews are perceived (wrongly) as powerful and privileged. This is what Bernie’s followers and supporters, such as AOC, undoubtedly think. Interestingly, this article makes no mention of the ideology Bernie is proud to identify himself with: socialism. I am sure that Prof. Muller knows what the consequences of expropriation of wealth from the rich were in Eastern Europe. Can we learn more about it? He is right, though, that Bernie is not a populist. Populism implies nationalism and Bernie is not a nationalist. Whether this is a saving grace is doubtful. As far as I am concerned, Bernie is not as bad as Trump. He is worse.
67
@Mor Sanders doesn't advocate for the socialism of the former Eastern Bloc nor that of Latin America. Only for the same socialism that has worked successfully in most western nations excepting the US.
80
@Mor Are you asserting that Sanders is wrong in arguing the Billionaire Class is very politically powerful and playing a central role in taking the country in the wrong direction?
81
@Mor
The greatest time for US prosperity was post WW2 with highly progressive taxation fueling the rising tide. Checked the wealth distribution percentages since Reagan?
Also, you should have a read of “A Very Stable Genius”, if you believe Sanders would make a worse president than Trump
66
Had Sanders toughed it out in his native Brooklyn during the decades with the rest of us who endured, through torrents of crime, family implosion, the loss of manufacturing and jobs for the un-elite, gyrations of racism and gentrification and renaissance, of a kind. Had he stuck it out to offer real solutions to daily problems instead of fleeing to Vermont to play Socialist, if he just did something with his life other than to grow into an aged, angry, screaming washed-up hippie, I’d support him. But he didn’t. He’s not even a has-been, he’s a never-was. He was nowhere in the battles that others of his his generation fought if imperfectly. He’s in every sense, just like Trump. A conman.
91
@Jim Harris Bernard spent a good deal of his twenties and thirties in the lower middle class, and even had to rely on stealing electricity to power his apartment at one point. Your comment doesnt reflect the reality of his life at all.
70
@Jim Harris I think it’s a bit disingenuous (or perhaps simply uninformed) to say he’s just like Trump and a conman.
Sanders was involved in plenty of civil rights activism in the 1960s, including exposing university housing discrimination based on race after organizing the first civil rights protest in Chicago (for which he was arrested).
Since then he’s had a pretty good run of achievements as a mayor, representative, and senator. It may not be in the same stratosphere as other like Obama, but to equate him with Trump or to say he has done “nothing” just sounds like propaganda from the Warren camp.
55
@Jim Harris
Let's not forget that Sanders has been the point of entry for some people into national politics. His campaigns have given many people a unified voice.
I also think people undervalue a president's main asset: the bully pulpit. Sanders is a tireless advocate on the issues of his campaign--and these are issues that Americans need to hear. If the role of a president is to lead, Sanders will do so effectively.
53
"But it is high time to retire the horseshoe theory according to which extremes of right and left must always meet somewhere, such that the only salvation from “political sociopaths” lies with the center." Well said!
5
@ltj from Utah (who knows the difference in size of Princeton and NYC but not much else it seems)
Do you know who FDR was and what he did? Where did he do what he did? Not in Denmark.
Do you know what the highest tax bracket was before Reagan? Do you know who the presidents were before Reagan. Hint: Not Lenin, Trotsky or even Mitterrand!
Ignorance is a disease in this country.
Vote for Bernie and perhaps your offsprings will be blessed with a better education.
8
Bernie, in every sense, is the "anti-Trump."
7
The NYT and its readers are not an accurate sample of the United States' electorate. 40% of adult Americans could not come up with $400 in an emergency. Few of them read the Times. They can't afford it. These people are the ones who could decide an election, but only if they bother to get out and vote. A centrist Democrat will not inspire these folks to vote. Sanders or Warren are the only candidates that can. Sanders more so than Warren, because Sanders is authentic and has always been consistent with his message.
4
Its time to call him a Conservative and reclaim the word that has been utterly twisted.
True conservatism seeks to protect the water air and land from poisons and dangerous shortsighted exploitation for our and future generations. They seek to conserve these resources. They seek to conserve our wild animals and plants and lands, which is our wealth in spirit and form. They seek to conserve above all the health and wellbeing of humans, which rely on the conservation of all these bounties from mother earth. Bernie is a Conservative. The republican party is exploitation, pure and simple, they wish to plunder and take care of only themselves to the detriment of the future humans and other creatures which give meaning to existance.
3
From a distance, I confess I've also wondered how the Trump/Sanders analogy is sustainable. (And not only because much of Sanders' "socialist" agenda is matched, if not dwarfed by policies that are a foregone conclusion even for conservatives here in Canada.)
Above all, when Sanders speaks of a gap between the wealthy and the poor, and when he points out that taxation is in no way progressive, etc., he is citing facts and statistics that the Bureau of Labour Stats would immediately confirm. (Yes, there is a class-based income gap, and it has only grown for decades. Yes, there is a class-based quality of life gap, and it has only grown for decades.)
When Trump is foaming at the mouth while demonizing an immigrant population on religious and racial grounds, or the "elites" on I don't know what grounds, he is misrepresenting and often outright lying about entire swaths of the American and international population. No, not everyone who wears a burqa is a threat to U.S. sovereignty. No, not everyone who lives in a city, or who writes for news networks that are not Fox, or who works in public service for more than four years, is a threat to the common citizen.
Sanders isn't looking for a class war; he's looking for some semblance of socio-economic equity. Citing the facts of the lived circumstances of the majority of American citizens is not demagogy; speaking and acting in ignorance of these facts is.
5
@Jay - Well said. But you have to realize that in America it's possible to cite the moon landing as an example of American greatness while *also* disparaging a belief in global warming as a matter of being taken in by a Chinese hoax.
When receiving this kind of wisdom you can point out that NASA both undertook the moon landing *and* says that global warming is real, man-made, and an existential threat. Crickets. Easily verifiable, objective facts simply do not register for a large number of American voters, nor do obvious contradictions.
They would likely go on to counter the above with something about "elitism," even though those very elitists at NASA made possible the moon landing, which was their original example of greatness, and . . .
"One might think that Mr. Sanders’s policies are crazy (even if in fact they are inspired by Denmark, one of the world’s most successful capitalist democracies)"
Actually, for those that understand economics and Bernie's history, his policies are akin to those of Venezuela.
The facts are Hugo Chavez' polices were loudly applauded by Bernie Sanders. This is something that must not be ignored.
4
This is a very odd column. Just because Sanders is not the disaster that Trump is, doesn't mean he'd make a good president. You don't have to believe in a horseshoe theory to notice that in 2016, some (an a not insignificant number) Sanders supporters voted for Trump. Are these "angry citizens" anti-establishment, or people who don't care if the whole system burns down? Moreover, Sanders doesn't demonize the billionaires only. He demonizes all rivals and people who disagree with him -- in the pockets of capitalists, lightweights, etc etc. Do you think he respectfully disagreed with Mrs. Clinton or Madeleine Kunin? Hardly....
6
@Hornbeam - Voters who supported Sanders during the primaries and then shifted to Trump in the general tell us far more about Clinton and her ilk than they do about Sanders.
Those crucial (especially midwest) voters were looking for somebody, anybody, to indicate that he or she cared even a tiny bit about working people. Trump dishonestly made this claim, Clinton couldn't be bothered, and Sanders made it in earnest, but wasn't there in the general. I'm sure that many of these voters were loath to vote for Trump, but they could easily see that four more years of mainstream DNC policy would get them more of the same--so they rolled the dice with Trump.
That some Trump voters (hesitant ones, I think) can be traced back to Sanders in 2016 hardly means that Sanders believes the same things that Trump does.
And how have things worked out for those skeptical voters in the last three years? (And no, the single mom living paycheck-to-paycheck doesn't care what the stock market did last week). If Sanders or Warren get the nomination, will they stick with Trump or go back to their first choice?
2
Anybody who claims Bernie is just like Trump is misinformed.
Bernie is a democratic socialist. Trump is a winner-takes-all, environment-destroying capitalist. They are 100% the opposite of each other.
OK, they're both old White men from the outer boroughs of NYC (ie. not Manhattan). BTW, for the most part Trump is reviled in NYC while Bernie is beloved there. Generally, speaking, of course.
That both are able to draw enthusiastic crowds is only superficially similar. Trump draws angry, racist, gun-loving Republicans who love alternative reality and conspiracy theories as long as they support their otherwise indefensible politics. Bernie draws young, educated, well-informed, environmentally-conscious Democrats who believe in social justice and are anti-racism.
All comparisons between Bernie and Trump are superficial.
BTW, I think we need Biden to defeat Trump, because I don't think Bernie can do it. Far too many Americans just will NEVER get past the label "democratic socialist" even though few even know what that is.
Job No. 1 is defeating Trump.
2
Sanders is the best candidate for president and the most likely to win against Trump. He is no more a populist than FDR.
9
@dr. c.c. The Democratic Party is no more the party of FDR than the Republican Party is the party of Lincoln.
Lotsa limousine liberals are terrified of going back to Democratic core values.
6
@Jim then let's change it.
2
A man who chose to spend his honeymoon in the Soviet Union now wants to be President of the country most Soviet leaders considered their enemy.
Sorry, I'll have to hold my nose while doing it, but I'll vote for Trump.
1
Acule. Great rationale. Because Trump has not constantly helped Putin since elected.......and Putin has not helped Trump. You’re allegedly worried about Russia? Of course, we totally understand IF you received a Trump Tax Cut.
2
Sanders' popularity has a lot to do I think with economic inequality; it becomes more reasonable to criticize an economic regime when the regime becomes so clearly, openly unjust. But our society has always been on its way to where it is now, and folks like Sanders have known it for a long time. This is why I think he is to be trusted. He's been working on these problems since before most of our media and politicians even named them as such.
5
How is Sanders a populist? He espouses measures that he promises personally to get into law, despite the fact that he could not do so without a Democratic Congress, and even then he would have great difficulty in passing them. He does so in full knowledge of this, purely to attract people to the cause of electing him. What more do you need?
3
@Daedalus Yup. If Bernie is a populist then what people does he represent? Not the white working class, Trump’s Base. Not African-Americans, the Democratic Party’s most faithful constituency. Bernie’s people are the socially privileged: the young, beautiful, and cool—not fat old ladies like me. They’re the people who can afford idealism, the luxury of the privileged, who can afford to go for the carrot because they’ve never felt the stick.
2
@Daedalus - One of the houses of Congress is already firmly controlled by the Democrats, and the other one is home to several Republican seats that are vulnerable. If Sanders wins and those seats flip blue, what exactly keeps the new president and Democratic majority from moving forward with the policies the voters put them in office to enact?
And yes, he's trying to get elected. Is that evidence of some kind of shady conspiracy or something?
2
I am a left populist and a socialist and I think it's right to call Bernie a populist. While I agree with nearly all that the author has to say, I disagree with the "run from the populist label" tact. Bernie's populism is a feature, not a bug.
Midwestern populism / prairie populism / agricultural socialism is a movement that produced a number of cooperative enterprises like food co ops, electricity collectives and credit unions. Chances are you have done business with an entity that had it's origins in the early 20th century populist movement.
In Canada, the prairie populist movement gave rise the NDP, Canada's social democratic party. In the U.S. it took the form of the Popular Party. In the south, the PP was dismantled by racist, right populists. In the west the party was incorporated into an movement destined to fail (the free silver movement).
I think populism's defeat in the south and win in the prairie provinces is instructive. The PP failed because it was insufficiently anti-racist -- had the anti racist forces collaborated to defeat a common enemy we would be living a better world.
The Sanders movement understands this -- is is being bolstered by anti-racist, populist movements like the movement for black lives; a movement that is right to believe that the system is rigged in favor of an entrenched elite.
It's also right to believe in virtues of everyday people. Let's stop calling potential voters stupid, let's join together to fight a common enemy.
3
Bernie Sanders is a true man of the people!
Call him by this or that name. Lump him into whatever category you want. But let no one be confused: Bernie is a friend the working class, and he fights for people of all races, genders, sexual orientations, religions...
If that makes him a populist, then we should all be populists and it's the right-wing populists who should have to give up the name.
6
Populism is a long and honorable political tradition in American politics. Both the Populist party and it's great Democratic exponent, William Jennings Bryan, did more than any other movement to make the promise of equality more of a reality than a vain hope. Bernie is a populist. Donald Trump is a reactionary. The two are very different creatures. The fact that reporters and pundits keep using "populist" improperly is the measure of just how ignorant they are of the nation's history.
5
Yes:
The "rhetoric" of "Mr. Sanders" and "Elizabeth Warren" is "just no malarkey."
Unfortunately, former President Obama debases much of his legacy, speaking for the establishment and the status quo, when he asserts that these candidates seeking to heal our nation are actually working to "tear down the system and remake it."
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/15/us/politics/barack-obama-2020-dems.html
Obama Says Average American Doesn’t Want to ‘Tear Down System’
2
@jkemp who thinks Bernie is bad because he is a “Marxist” (could have said Loch Ness Monster to the same effect)
Do you know what a Marxist is?
Have you read anything by Marx in its entirety?
Have you read more than a page of Marx?
Do you know that he was born in Trier in 1818 and not in New York City in 1890?
Do you know that he was probably not related to Groucho Marx?
Probably not (on all of the above).
5
"Right-wing populists, by contrast, insinuate that some people do not belong at all..."
Well, the leftists say that there should be no billionaires.
I think you can argue for higher taxes on the wealthy and highlight some of their power plays, while acknowledging their contributions too. You can't tax someone who hasn't generated any wealth unless all you do is tax inheritances.
Sanders's popularity has and will remain primarily and forever, but never discussed anywhere, tied to the Student Loan Debt he has promised to address for so many, if not most, his supporters are beleaguered with.
Then toss in recent talk from some in the Government about renewing the Draft and, well, Voilla! for Sanders.
Notions like this will forever keep his supporters from re-entering that fugue state they were daily immersed in watching YouTube Videos, like in those earlier years during the runup to the 2016 election when they didn't know Bernie Sanders from Colonel Sanders.
1
Hillary and Biden are now openly attacking Bernie... expect more viciousness and wagon-circling from the "business as usual" Democratic party machine. Everything's fine as long as you don't vote for Trump, they want you to believe. Go back to sleep ...
Bernie has already done much to move the Democrats leftwards. He's built on his success in 2016 and will be hard to beat in 2020. One way he could be defeated (and Trump reelected) is if the party establishment attacks him (or Warren, or others) with Republican-style talking points thoughout this primary campaign. This has begun.
1
Oh thank you Mr. Muller for writing this and I'm amazed that the NY Times published this.
I do actually think one thing is fair in the "name calling" and that is to point out that Billionaires really do have some sort of mental illness. I read in this very paper, an article about how Mr. Bloomberg might be willing to spend $1Billion to defeat Trump. But he "blanched" when he said that and explained, "It's an awful lot of money". But he supposedly is worth $55 Billion. How could he ever run out of money? If he lives to be 100 and spends $1Billion per year he'd still not run out of money. And yet, he worries. That's an illness and it has infected not just our democracy but countries all over the world. When 163 people (according to the latest Oxfam report) have more wealth than the poorest 50% of the population on the whole planet something is seriously out of whack. And the sooner we tackle that, the better for all of us, including "poor" Mr. Bloomberg.
3
@lzolatrov, Bloomberg's company employs 20,000 well-paid people. He has created a charitable foundation with $7 billion dollars. He spends hundred of millions on gun control efforts. He pays more taxes in a week than I've paid in my entire life.
4
Thank you for articulating a sane case against the maximalist rhetoric of the moderates, who have been pooh-poohing Sanders precisely when he rises in the polls (a lot of it appearing on these Opinion pages). Sanders is the only candidate who can unite the country in the age of Trump, and if the Left chooses Biden and loses, it will be making the same mistakes it made in 2016, and I’ll be blaming David Brooks, Paul Krugman, others for their complicity in extending Trump’s reign.
3
@Against Demagoguery
Sanders unite the country? I don't think so. At least not this country. Friendships have been undone by disagreement about Sanders. In that way, he does resemble Trump.
3
Of course Bernie is a populist, which has a long history in this country. The view from Germany may not understand our politics, but there's nothing wrong with being a populist, which means appealing to the great mass of people as opposed to the elites, as traditional politicians like Hillary and Romney did. The fact that Trump twists populism into a bad place with bad intentions, doesn't negate Bernie's positive populism.
3
Bernie may of may not be a populist but he certainly is a hack.
7
And how would you characterize yourself, Sir?
3
The logic here is incoherent. If it's ok for Bernie to demonize billionaires as a threat to the common people, then it's ok for Trump to demonize illegal immigrants, or any other group he considers a threat. You don't get to choose who's fair game and who isn't based on your own subjective preferences. "Right-wing populists, by contrast, insinuate that some people do not belong at all, or should be treated at best as second-class citizens." The only people Trump is saying don't belong are people who are here illegally, people who, according to the law, actually do not belong. He's never said that any American citizens don't belong or should be second-class citizens. "But neither his (Sanders') policies nor his personality poses a threat to the Republic. Mr. Trump does pose such a threat." Of course that's ridiculous. How does Trump pose a threat to the Republic? Just because you say so? How about some facts to back that up? Because otherwise this piece is just saying that it's ok when your side does it but not when the other side does. Truly the most unconvincing of arguments.
2
In this age of AI and bots, I can't help but wonder how many anti-Bernie comments are part of the now fully deployed "perception management" apps which crawl the web and post literally millions upon millions of comments / opinions, in every mainstream media outlet, the sole objective being the manipulation of mass perception.
Several data scientists I know create algorithms which do things, extraordinary things, which few, other than computer scientists, can imagine.
We need to be especially wary this election year, as our corporate owned government is worried as never before now that Biden is nearly toast, the Bloomberg fail-safe option seems to be a non-starter, and Bernie Sanders is becoming the wildfire that will consume them.
So heartening to see their fear.
6
@Mel Farrell
Sounds exactly like what a Russian/Republican "perception management app" would say, because they are afraid of Biden and not of Bernie.
Trumps advisors obviously told him that Biden was the real threat, and Trump got himself impeached trying to damage Biden. And we know the Russians attacked HRC back in 2016, but not Bernie.
I would have to conclude that the very smart Russian and Republican political operatives have it right; Biden could beat Trump, and Bernie can't.
3
@arty
Extraordinary, isn't it; impossible to tell what's real, especially with respect to media reports and comments.
1
@Mel Farrell So now those of us who question Sanders are bots? Ridiculous the amount of conspiracy theories being spun by the Sanders camp.
3
I have a question for Sanders supporters. If Bernie wants to "tear down the border wall" what is his plan for controlling illegal immigration? There are approximately 8 billion people in the world and over 6 billion of them are dirt poor and would love to simply walk into the USA and get "free college" and "free healthcare" along with HUD, food stamps, etc.
How many should we welcome in?
Specific, non-sarcastic answers only please.
5
@Jerome
Bernie did not say he wants to tear down the border wall, he said he wants to take a look at it but is inclined to spend the money elsewhere. His positions on immigration are clearly set out on his website (berniesanders.com) should you be serious about getting answers.
5
@Camille Ok, I took your challenge and went to Mr. Sanders website and read his immigration policies. I was particularly struck by the policy of re-uniting those families separated at the border, (compassionate on it's face) and I suppport it but the bottom line is once that is done what do we do with them? Just let them go with a summons to see an immigration judge in 2 or 3 years and which they will ignore - thereby encouraging more people to come here illegally? Abolish the hugely successful Remain in Mexico policy which has had the practical effect of stopping border agents from having to detain and separate families? Why? It's working. Bernie wants to "bring back middle class opportunities and the 'American Dream: but that cannot be done when we have millions of poverty stricken people literally dying to come here and wiol them be exploited as chep labor, thereby annulling the rise of income by people that are already here? Sounds like making the problem worse, not better to me.
1
I appreciate this piece, as I have been appalled at seeing Sanders equated with Trump in this publication. But part of the problem is the way the media has turned the word “populist” into something pejorative by referring to racist or fascist-leaning right-wing populists simply as “populists.” Here is the definition of populist from the Apple dictionary app: “a member or adherent of a political party seeing to represent the interests of ordinary people.” And here’s one from the Dictionary app: “grassroots democracy; working-class activism; egalitarianism.” The fact that mainstream media uses this term as an insult says something about whom they do and don’t represent. Trump is a demagogue, not a genuine populist.
2
Using Denmark as a model for the US is like saying what works in Princeton would work in NYC. What we see here is rhetoric, not common sense, and just another article indicating that academics are fundamentally unthinking progressives.
5
Do you know who FDR was and what he did? Where did he do what he did? Not in Denmark.
Do you know what the highest tax bracket was before Reagan? Do you know who the presidents were before Reagan. Hint: Not Lenin, Trotsky or even Mitterrand!
Ignorance is a disease in this country.
Vote for Bernie and perhaps your offsprings will be blessed with a better education.
2
Populism is defined by its reliance on apparently simple answers. In the case of Sanders and Warren, they are in a race to see who can give away the most free stuff - medical care, college, for example - paid for with other people's money. Populism and painlessness have always gone together and they usually don't produce realistic results. hence, the recurring failure of populism to take hold. And one has to ask, why is Bernie permitted to run as a Democrat when he has never been Democrat but is a socialist? And when one wants to get back to the "old" Democratic party, just look up the term Dixiecrat and see if that was a good idea.
1
I did not in all good conscience vote for Trump ( I did not vote for Hillary either). Like them, I cannot, under any circumstance, vote for Bernie. Sanders is just like every other politician...promise the people as much as he can think of, thus essentially trying to buy votes. This is no different than the Bread and Circuses of ancient Rome. There has never been a successful socialist styled government or economic system in a country that is diversified among racial and cultural strata. A few...and only a very few...socialist economies in Scandinavia are successful BUT it is because the countries have almost 0% unemployment, the homogeneous culture in the countries values work, production, and ethics, and because the taxes paid into the system are more than the social payments going out. Such is NOT the case in this country. Johnson's Great Society attempt at this has basically been a failure because, instead of promoting self-improvement, the culture of "let the government pay for it" has exploded exponentially. As a result, entire generations of many families have no idea what it mean to have a job. Sanders idea is to tax the rich for the poor; making this a redistribution of wealth whether he claims it or not. But what happens when this is not enough? What Sanders, and others like him, seem to be unable to comprehend is that eventually bills come due. This is what has crashed every major attempt at socialism so far.
3
If we Democrats elect Bernie Sanders as our candidate, we all but guarantee four more years of Trump as president, and huge losses for down-ballot Democrats.
Sanders is as divisive as any candidate I've seen in my 45 years as a voter.
8
Give Bernie a go . . he can't be worse than Trump, and you might even get something useful out of it . . like the elusive Medicare for All. We have it here in Australia and the sky didn't fall in . . its the one thing i think is really good. No other Democrat can beat Trump. Hopefully the days of Republican light are over . .
5
It seems like this is a case where primary voters actually get to decide who the nominee will be. Unlike in 2016, when the Clinton controlled DNC made the decision long before voting began.
Let the best candidate rise to the top via voter enthusiasm and voter support (not corporate or personal fortune support).
5
Thank you for writing and publishing this thoughtful response to the Sanders candidacy. Sanders is rising in the polls because he is addressing real concerns that the majority of Americans are facing. He's consistent and trustworthy and we need someone who is willing to fight for us. No matter who is elected in November-- we face a crisis in health care, wage stagnation, a system that disproportionately imprisons African Americans and people of color, a crisis on our farms, and Climate Change. We're also stuck in a seemingly endless war in the Middle East. Whoever is elected will most likely face the same hostile Senate that is now allowing the criminal Trump to trample our democracy. I fully understand those who just want to return to "normal" but that isn't going to happen. We can't magically resolve these issues. We are going to have to do something Democrats haven't done in many years and that is shift the discourse and change the course of our nation. That's why I support Bernie Sanders and also Elizabeth Warren.
3
I absolutely agree. Not to mention that if Sanders were elected, the balance of power in the Senate and House would create a government that conservatives should not fear. When conservatives argue that Sanders is a problem they need to get the logs out of their eyes.
2
Bernie is a progressive and left populist as defined:
Left-wing populism, or social populism, is a political ideology that combines left-wing politics and populist rhetoric and themes. The rhetoric of left-wing populism often consists of anti-elitist sentiments, opposition to the Establishment and speaking for the "common people". The important themes for left-wing populists usually include anti-capitalism, social justice, pacifism and anti-globalization, whereas class society ideology or socialist theory is not as important as it is to traditional left-wing parties. [Source Wiki]
Bernie is also a modern progressive:
In the modern era, a movement that identifies as progressive is "a social or political movement that aims to represent the interests of ordinary people through political change and the support of government actions"[3] In the 21st century, those who identify as progressive may do so for a variety of reasons: for example, to favor public policy that reduces or ameliorates the harmful effects of economic inequality as well as systemic discrimination, to advocate for environmentally conscious policies, as well as for social safety nets and rights of workers, to oppose the negative externalities inflicted on the environment and society by monopolies or corporate influence on the democratic process.
[Source Wiki]
Note that being anti-capitalist and against negative externalities inflicted to make faux-profits is also consistent with being anti-war & anti-Empire
3
To say all Sander's ideas are inspired by Denmark is inaccurate, to say the least.
This is the man who praised bread lines as a sign of good government, who idolized Castro, who honeymooned in the Soviet Union.
We also know that far too many voters don't vote on economic justice issues; they vote on what effects them personally, and on cultural issues like abortion, guns, and religion. So Sanders' us/them rhetoric based on money alone is hardly likely to win the number of followers necessary for a Democratic win.
The last thing we need in an age of heightened hate crimes, the demonizing of others, and extreme partisanship is yet another demagogue spouting more divisiveness.
3
If Denmark is such a wonderful place ,why is their alcoholism rate so high?
2
@Roger No! You uncovered Bernie's plot to plunge the working class into alcoholism. #MakeAmericaDenmarkAgain
3
@Roger They are happy drunks with health care for all.
What's not to like?
3
If Bernie is the nominee, he has my vote. But please don’t ask me to pretend that his foreign policy isn’t disastrous or that he’s not a populist. I believe he’d be a terrible president, but the current WH occupant is not just terrible; he is dangerous, destructive, and despotic. If my choices are Bernie and Trump, at least let me be honest about what I’m choosing.
6
If you go far enough to the left, you end up with communism; if you go far enough to the right, you end up with fascism. Either way you get a dictatorship. An extreme philosophy combined with "I am the one true champion who can fix everything" is always bad. Stalin and Hitler were both horrors. Trump has preached the "I alone can fix it" ideology from the get-go, and Sanders comes dangerously close, particularly when he attacks more centrist candidates.
5
Think about how ludicrous it is to equate "I alone can fix it" with Bernie's insistent campaign slogan, "Not me, us."
2
Bernie has his points, as do the other candidates. As President he would have passion and commitment, as always; but every stock market hiccup and tiny uptick in unemployment would be laid at his door (by Fox, the Wall St. Journal, and even the NYTimes). This is minor stuff though compared to defeating Trump. Vote blue no matter who.
5
It is astounding that many of the same “moderates” who have spent the last three years blaming Trump’s election not only on those who couldn’t bring themselves to vote for Hillary but also those who did but were insufficiently enthusiastic about doing so are now openly saying that they will sit out the election if Bernie is the nominee. The hypocrisy is galling, especially since we now know exactly how bad a Trump presidency would be in ways we couldn’t have known in 2016. You really think Sanders’ occasional tone deafness about gender and race is worse than Trump’s blatant misogyny, enabling of hate crimes and history of sexual assault? You really think the Green New Deal is worse than voiding all the environmental regulations made in the last thirty years? You really think Sanders would put kids in cages or letting Puerto Rico drown? You really think Sanders - or anyone - would be worse than Trump on foreign policy?
Sanders might have a hard time getting things through Congress, but you might notice that the current Senate isn’t doing anything and both Obama and Clinton faced gridlock. You’re dreaming if you think that Republicans will be any better to Biden or Buttigieg than they would be to Sanders. Obstruction is all they know how to do. Meanwhile Sanders has motivated millions to engage with democracy.
Sanders isn’t my first choice - Warren is - but this Sanders-bashing is poisoning the Democratic Party at a time when we need solidarity more than ever.
6
I don't care if he is labeled is populist, progressive, or petunia. It's his policies that I disagree with.
5
Bernie has spent years in the senate not accomplishing anything memorable. He comes across as an angry old man lecturing the naughty children in the room. If he is the Dem. candidate for 2020 Trump will win. Period. Trump will easily out-shout, out menace and lie his way to be re-elected claiming how badly he has been treated by his opponents (see impeachment acquittal). We can't wait for democratic socialism to catch fire among the American electorate. That will never happen in our lifetimes. Only a candidate with realistic proposals and an unflappable countenance who can stand up to the bully-in-chief will have a chance at the White House. Pease don't let it be Bernie.
6
The main fuel of populists is anger. A populist is someone who pits "us," the homogenized virtuous people vs. "them," the undeserving power and money "mongers." Populists promise you something for nothing, because they think you are "due" it. A chicken in every pot in the case of Huey Long, or in Bernie's, "free everything for everyone," which someone else will pay for, but they'll get your vote. Sanders does demonize others: the "elites," Clinton, Biden, and now Warren to name a few. He also doesn't even join the 230 year old Democratic party who's nomination he so desperately seeks, again, nor does he help party leadership, or share his much heralded donations with the party. Mr. Sanders says he's in it for others, but in the end only a selfish person purports to have the only answers:the leader as personification of the people. Authoritarianism often goes hand in hand with populism because of this. So does corruption, as we are witnessing today. That so many think "let's try his way," speaks to how miserable the Republican minority are making life for so many, but there are other ways and remedies. I'll take flawed pluralism anyday over most brands of populism. By the way, Denmark does not have a populist government.
Sanders is not Trump, but he inspires a similar cult of personality full of people who claim that “Bernie alone can save us” and brook no criticism of the man. The worst of them are like MAGA enthusiasts with better vocabularies. That alone is enough for me to favor other candidates.
7
@TimesnLatte
A personality cult would not have the motto "not me, us."
2
The people who support Bernie live in fantasy land. Tell me exactly how Bernie, who not exactly known for collaboration, will accomplish any of his goals? I'm not seeing a revolution today. The streets look pretty empty, in fact, given the monstrosity in the White House. You all seem, like Bernie, to talk a big game but, in reality, do very little.
6
I don't think that Sanders is an authoritarian, set on quieting opposition, setting up friends to win and foes to lose, bending the law to benefit himself financially, and suppressing the press, while moving past "spin" and into straight out lies and propaganda.
I do think he has the making of a demagogue. Maybe he sees himself as a benevolent demagogue.
But for all I agree with Sanders that the system is rigged to milk the wealth out of everyone and center it into the hands of a few, I don't see him as having any answers.
What good is being full of sound and fury if it signifies nothing?
Trump is dangerous, because his personal leanings toward authoritarianism are being supported by a codependent Senate hellbent on stacking the courts and channeling as much wealth upward as they can before he is stopped. Sanders has a bully pulpit, but no bullies to back him up.
Sanders will be saved from demagoguery only because he will not have the right back-up to promote his agenda. Demagoguery and fascism need not go hand in hand. You can be a populist demagogue, convinced that only he can save everyone, forced to make them bend to his will, simply because he knows that he is right.
2
It's nice to see a positive piece on Bernie in the NYT.
Bernie 2020
8
The media compares BERNIE to Trump because their corporate owners are afraid of him. Corporatist Democrats do it too for the same reason. It’s appalling. BERNIE is what real Democrats used to be, nothing radical just human centered policies.
The CORPORATISTS gave us Trump and, honestly, I’m not so sure they wouldn’t be just as happy to have him for another four years if it meant defeating BERNIE! FDR would be appalled! Go BERNIE.
3
Trump is so much better than socialist Bernie
2
@Andrew from NY (who finally agrees with someone from Princeton)
I know what you mean but Krugman is no longer there.
And there is the wonderful nonagenarian Arno Mayer who makes all historians everywhere proud still on the faculty.
And don’t forget the spirit of Albert Einstein. He is always there peeking at the world and wryly smiling.
2
Actually, none of the stuff mentioned here is what gets me to think about the similarities between Bernie and Trump.
First, it’s the “St. Bernie can do no wrong,” ‘tude that’s all too obvious—and the social media mobbing of anybody who even hints different. Especially women.
Second, it’s the one-note-johnny form everything takes. No, folks, the economic does not simply determine everything. No, you don’t get to lecture black voters on how they need to vote.
Third, it’s the crayola nature of the Big Plans, most obviously on M4A. They’re completely vague, completely unrealistic, and completely unaffordable.
Fourth, it’s the isolationism. And yeah, that’s a thing.
Fifth, it’s the constant distortion of facts. Want to criticize Joe Biden? Go nuts. But he did NOT simply cheer for the Iraq War, and he did NOT demand simple cuts to SSI, and so on.
Then there’s the yelling...
4
Right. He's just a professional Clinton-basher.
2
Donald Trump's own pollster Fabrizio acknowledges that Bernie Sanders would have beaten Donald Trump. Anyone who shows up will beat Donald Trump. Hillary Clinton lost because she did not establish any presence and that vacuum was filled not only by Donald Trump's abuse night after night on national TV but by Russian hackers and all manner of lunatic fringe swamp creatures.
4
I am not a supporter of the current President and did not/will not vote for him. At the same time, neither will I vote for an avowed socialist. For those who are too young to remember how terrible the outcomes have been under socialist states, you should take some history lessons. Wait, we have rewritten history so that socialism was good. In that case, look at the real history and be glad for capitalism, with all its warts.
34
@DickH
Bravo sir! You won't much love here, but your post is spot on. For those of us who love democracy and want to see an improved and fairer capitalism, the nomination of Bernie Sanders brings either 4 more years or Trump or at least 4 years of socialism. There is no lesser of two evils there....both would be devastating.
3
@DickH For someone who wants to preach education, you have a funny way of cherry picking the socialism of Sanders. Cuba did not become a dictatorship because of affordable health care. However, DickH, it's interesting that Cubans, under a dictatorship, have better health care than the average American.
Fun!
41
@DickH
As a child of the Forties who remembers her history well I suggest you need to review yours.
You are talking about socialist states like Denmark and the other countries of Scandanavia?
Socialism IS NOT the same as Communism.
Social Democracies work and have the happiest people on earth.
41
Trump, and his cronies like Erdogan, Orban, Johnson, and others, are not populists, they simply pose as "men of the People" to achieve their true goal of attaining power. Bernie Sanders IS a populist, in the true sense of being "of and FOR the People".
At its root, populism is mainly concerned with economic fairness. Unfortunately it's been hijacked by people and groups who have darker agendas like xenophobia and racism, and who use the much broader support for economic fairness to draw those people into their cause.
But because people from across the political spectrum share this goal of economic fairness, it confounds those who only see things through a "left/right; liberal/conservative; Democrat/Republican" lens. This is why the MSM and pundits got it wrong in 2016, and are still getting it wrong. Yes, a lot of voters crossed party lines, but they didn't cross the ideological line of populism.
As a result, the best way to defeat Trump is to run Sanders who can appeal to the Trump voters and their economic interests, while also appealing to Democrats on that same basis, as well as on the basis of MFA, the GND, the environment, and judicial reform.
Populism isn't bad, it's the people that co-opt it for bad purposes who are bad.
3
The Socialist from Vermont may not be a threat to democracy, but he was and is now again a threat to the Democratic Party he joins only when it suits him. He was one of the people who ended up getting Trump into office. Once again he is attacking Democratic candidates instead of focusing on Trump and the Republicans. I hope Sanders loses the primary. If he wins, I’ll have to vote for him. Will his fanatical supporters vote for any but Bernie?
2
So many people in the US are now like a driver in the wrong lane cursing at all the other cars coming at him.
Even under Obama, the US was already perceived as extreme by all the other developed countries. Its gun laws, its lack of universal healthcare, its at will employment, its lack of paid holidays, its homeless people everywhere, ...
It's just very strange to Europeans, Canadians, ... how someone who proposes to take the country more into their direction is perceived as a populist and extremist in America.
8
@Liz
Your first sentence says it all. When one looks at America being the "poster child" for voters who strangely continue to vote against their self-interest, this attitude comes as no surprise, change is difficult, however, not doing one's homework and always accepting things face value, especially from a corporate/establishment centrist "status quo" media doesn't help either.
From where I observe, It is unfortunate that the "divide and conquer" approach that is festered by many of the politicians to divert away from Americans issues is what holds Americans back and the corporate/establishment media and their cronies just want to keep it that way. Just like during the depression, when workers came to see FDR and told him "if you don't do something about this situation,there will be soon be pitchforks at the gates of the WH". Clearly, in this case, Americans finally got together to force the issue.
Well, even a man of means like FDR recognized that much had to be done and it had to be done NOW!
Bernie is FDR incarnated.
3
@Liz
Sorry if Americans aren't clamoring to be just like economically stagnant Europe with its massive unemployment and declining quality of life. Most Americans don't want their country to be like France, for example, where finding a job is nearly impossible and a long-deferred economic reckoning has led to crippling strikes and endless demonstrations in the streets.
@Liz So many people in the US are now like a driver in the wrong lane cursing at all the other cars coming at him. Great analogy.
1
Sanders is not Trump. But I absolutely believe Sanders supporters are nearly indistinguishable from Trump supporters. Either worship at the altar of the Bern, or face eternal damnation and assault. The revolting commentary I've seen his supporters spew about everyone who has ever dared to challenge him and his omniscience is alarming. There is no discussion of policy, but simply Trumpian politics - either you are for our guy or you are the enemy and we will show you how we treat the enemy. If Sanders can't rein in his supporters, I will not vote for him.
8
Granted, Sanders is in no way like Trump - as a start he's not mentally ill or a womanizer - but the problem with Sanders and his followers is their intolerance and outright anger at those of us who do not support his Presidential candidacy, or agree with his positions. Just look at the vile in the NYT comments section whenever anyone states they will not vote for Bernie, or don't believe he's the best candidate. It's as if we all have some kind of moral obligation to agree with the man. I do not like Bernie. Period. And it's more than his positions - it's him. He screams. He raises his voice. He's unpolished. He's not polite. He's negative. These are traits I've run away from my entire life. Notwithstanding, if he is the Democratic candidate I will of course vote for him, but that's it. If he becomes POTUS, I won't refer to him as "not my President", but I will tune him out much as I've tuned out Trump.
5
Other important differences
Bernie:
believes in our democracy
accepts reasoned arguments
listens to experts
serves others, not himself
is truthful, honest
has a track record of serving the American public
speaks to people's understanding, not their emotions
Trump:
is self-serving
is dishonest and regularly lies
does not understand democracy
has an instinct to be dictatorial
is not willing to learn from experts
is crude
tries to get people angry and is dangerous
lies some more
The worst Bernie would do is try out a policy that doesn't work as he hoped. Such a policy could be quickly amended or removed, given that he accepts democratic government
The worst Trump would do is get us into a war, destroy our relationships with other countries, get some Americans to kill others in a mistaken notion of removing threats to their existence.
This is so obvious, we should not need to have such a discussion.
10
Sanders is a threat because he's a Marxist.
Marxists find a problem and exaggerate it beyond recognition. Then they identify a boogeyman who is responsible. Then the solution is a transfer of power to themselves. Whether they get rich personally from the problem is irrelevant.
At every debate Bernie tells us there are 80 million uninsured and "underinsured" Americans. Last debate it magically increased to 87 million. There are roughly 20 million uninsured Americans. The number goes down each year especially as states opt into the Medicare expansion (2 opted in last year). Many choose not be insured and can buy subsidized insurance whenever they want-even when sick.
"Underinsured" is subjective nonsense. Minimum insurance coverage is mandate by federal law. How many drivers are underinsured? Home owners?
A democratic socialist would propose raising minimum insurance requirements. A Marxist finds a boogeyman-the insurance companies. People choose to buy insurance, over 70% of them want private insurance (WaPo). These companies employ 3 million people, support towns like DeMoines, and 75% of Americans have them in their portfolios.
Taking something people buy away from them because it's unfair is Marxism. Transferring the power to the government is Marxism.
Another boogeyman is "housing speculators". Bernie bought his 3rd house from federal money his wife made running a college into bankruptcy. But, the system is rigged for others?
Nominate him-elect Trump.
2
@JKemp
Do you know what a Marxist is?
Have you read anything by Marx in its entirety?
Have you read more than a page of Marx?
Do you know that he was born in Trier in 1818 and not in New York City in 1890?
Do you know that he was probably not related to Groucho Marx?
Probably not (on all of the above).
2
Finally!
Senator Sanders ? Ask Hilary. A populist, a corrupt lier, a cold politician, no one like him...
Finally we are starting to read and hear things that make sense about Bernie.
He still have formidable enemies not because of their qualities but because of their immense power, like Bloomberg (another billionaire), The "liberal" press, Wallstreet, and the Trumpists , but an article like this one gives hope to reason, and just HOPE...
3
Of course Bernie Sanders is not a populist.
Bernie Sanders the socialist, who loved the labor movement, Cuba, the old Soviet Union and the Nicaraguan Sandinistas, we knew about.
Bernie the millionaire, who knew?
Actually, why is anyone surprised that Bernie is now part of the 1%? He owns three homes, including one on the "Vermont Riviera," the shore of Lake Champlain, that cost a bundle.
Clearly Bernie has become accustomed to the upscale lifestyle he has long made a career of eschewing and excoriating. Now that he is in a higher tax bracket he is surely getting schooled on tax avoidance and sheltering income, lessons that plutocrats learn at their fathers' knees. And I wonder how much of his considerable income he is willing to redistribute. And his wife does their taxes? Right.
I guess Bernie will have to stop ranting and raving against millionaires and spend more time explaining to voters 1) why he is not a hypocrite and 2) how socialism will benefit his "working class" supporters while he is feeding at the trough of good old capitalism.
As Margaret Thatcher so aptly put it, "The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money." That's when everybody's taxes go up.
As for policies, Sanders' espousal of free everything for everyone, not to mention allowing felons to vote from prison, can only guarantee Trump's re-election if Bernie is the Democratic candidate in 2020.
4
@Mon Ray *** Oh you mean Margaret Thatcher from the U.K. The country with the Royal National Health Service, the equivalent of Medicare For All... That Margaret Thatcher.
2
I do believe I will live to see the reincarnation of FDR, Bernie Sanders, be sworn in as our 46th President on January 20th 2021.
What a nationwide sigh of relief will ripple across America as Bernie Sanders places his hand on the bible and intones the words - "I, Bernie Sanders, do solemnly swear that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."
"... preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."
Imagine that, the Gentleman from Vermont, by way of Brooklyn, pledging to - "preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States', steadfastly and with his entirely honorable being, pledging to the people of America and the world, that he will do what is expected of every American President, and that he will not engage in the perfidy that was, and will always be, the hallmark of Donald Trump, the former Impeached 45th President who left no stone unturned in his efforts to destroy our Democratic Republic.
May the wind be at Bernies back, for the eight years thereafter, as he steers our nation one more time into a new and lasting dawn.
8
This is an excellent and well-argued piece by the acknowledged international authority on “populism.” It is fully convincing. Thank you.
4
I disagree. Sanders is trumpish.
Both have a loose relationship with truth . Both are fans of having others spread ies on their behalf. Both encourage the viewpoint that other candidates from their own party are as much of opposition as the other party
I'm a Jewish and atheist refugee from USSR. We had not fled the quality of life. We left the lack of freedom and free thought . The cult of the government . I happened to like the socialist healthcare and education. But when I see Bernie, I see a lot of things we had fled .
Bernie is a million times better than trump. But lack of facing the truth will hurt us. Bernie is a more benevolent dictator that the trump monster. But there is a dictator in him
3
The corporatist wing of the Democratic Part, which pundits label incorrectly "moderate Democrats" fear Sanders as much as the Republicans. Their rabid opposition to Sanders and Warren is due to their panic in their realization that Sanders is a real threat to their power and influence.
The false equivalency with Trump that so called "moderate Democrats" propaganda machine is using to attack Sanders is a real threat to American democracy. If Franklin Roosevelt were running today these false centrists would be attacking him the same way they are Sanders. It's not only foolish, it's dangerous for the American people to buy into the big money Democrats and corporatist media's false equivalency of Trump and Sanders. Once again, "follow the money" is sound advice.
Sanders is the only Democrat who might garner the votes of a few of Trump's followers. Not many, but still a few.
3
The centrist Clinton-Obama axis that has come to dominate the DNC's standard bearers is polluted with money on every side. They were for DoMA, don't ask don't tell, and a slew of other culturally far-right issues until they weren't in the Obama years. What changed? Social networks risked corporate board meltdowns. That's why. They don't have an ounce of basic decency. I don't want them representing us anymore.
A good portion of the population, minus the rabid racists, are finally ready for change. And they are laughing their way to the elections this year. That's why the phonies in the Clinton-Obama camp are terrified. I expect many surprises before every primary and caucus this year. They are busy making stuff up about Bernie when they are not manufacturing consent with their loud mouthpieces on TV.
Look at their narratives: Bernie Bros. Nothing could be comically far from the truth. But that doesn't stop them--we are now Bernie Stans.
By calling us names and reducing us to memes, the hope to tarnish the movement, which by the way is majority women and PoC.
In my experience, the nastiest people online are the centrists from the Clinton-Obama camp. Case in point is Clinton herself, who became the chief schoolyard bully in residence this week. Not only is she the chief bully, she is the bully that doesn't go to this school anymore--she is supposed to have graduated or dropped out, but she keeps coming back to this schoolyard.
6
What an insightful, on-target, well-written (even I can understand and appreciate it quickly and easily), and interesting essay!
We still have good and great thinkers -- surprise! surprise! -- at our sterling-quality universities.
Many gems abide in this political cavern, but one I particularly liked is: "While populists incessantly talk about unifying the people, dividing them is the very basis of their political business model." Yes! That's Trump, the Divider-in-Chief. Of all his civic sins, and they are legion, that one is perhaps his most egregious.
Reading such op-eds helps divert me from the maddening process in the Senate. I can't watch: It's like the climax scene in a movie between good and bad; it can go either way, and you can't take it if the bad guys win. Which, everybody says, looks like the case here. I feel it, too.
Now I need another essay diversion.
Suggestion to editorialists: Have you noticed that Trump is guilty not just of two or three, but of all seven cardinal sins (lust, gluttony, greed, sloth, envy, wrath, and pride), yet possesses none of the cardinal virtues of chastity, temperance, charity, diligence, kindness, patience, humility? What are we dealing with here? He's the complete package, the polar opposite to Socrates, Buddha, and Jesus, the stereotype of a made-for-TV cop drama, the ugliest pup in the litter, a personality only a devoted daughter could love.
Maybe words on paper, though, will be insufficient for widespread, serious change.
2
A country can have a dictatorship from the left just as much as a dictator from the right. If a candidate believes he is right about all things, that everyone who does not agree with him is corrupt, that there is no compromising, then that is dangerous to democracy.
3
Anyone saying Sanders is not running a cult has not felt the force of the Bernie bros after criticizing a Sanders' policy. Not supporting Sanders is the equivalent of being a neo-liberal corporatist lapdog, hardly a 'real working American'.
Very similar really to to Trump trolls on the right and it was quite frightening to see Sander's supporters pushing the same talking points from Fox news against Hillary Clinton in the 2016 election primaries, with blatant disregard/ignorance of the facts. It's not a surprise that an estimated 10-12% of Sanders primary supports voted for Trump. (google Sanders supporters voting for Trump).
3
The media's endless misuse of 'populist' to avoid calling a candidate 'racist' or some similar exclusionary term like 'zenophobe' is a false equivalence. Being a populist means one is popular, and taking advantage of that to swing opinions by celebrity rather than by reasoning. One can be a populist without being a bigot.
When one is both a populist and a bigot they should be described as such, eg. 'the white supremacist now popular among extremists'. Being a popular celebrity is not a danger. Being a popular bigot is.
2
The rallying cry of the far right is to demonize immigrants and the rallying cry of the far left is to demonize billionaires. Many of us in the center are fed up with both.
3
I'd be perfectly happy with a President Sanders, although he is not my candidate in the primary. Instead of appealing to sane democrats, perhaps you should be writing this to the insane, inflamed and emotionally violent absolutists who populate his base. It is they, and not the candidate himself, who turn us off.
2
“Today, this false equation is being pushed by pundits on the right and, until now less loudly, by liberal centrists.”
If memory serves, I’m pretty sure that I’ve personally been consistent in my sustained criticism of Bernie Sanders’ predilection to broadly articulate the outlines of his plans, and then sharply refuse to elaborate as to how those plans might be accomplished.
When I hear the rhetoric of, “us versus them,” whether it’s in reference to marginalized and oppressed individuals, or directed towards a ‘they’, crafted in the figure of an adversarial gestalt, I know that rhetoric to be something quite familiar.
As the lessons of the past have made quite clear, a broad democratic consensus is insufficient evidence that any individual should be afforded access to such extraordinary power as is provided to the American premiere.
Having said that, the option between Bernie Sanders, and Donald Trump, is no option at all. Donald Trump is truly an existential threat to the Republic, whereas Bernie Sanders almost certainly would not be.
1
Denmark's population is 5.8 million. I lived on Lake Champlain south of Burlington, Vermont and it is one of the whitest states in the country. Sanders and Vermont or Denmark are not comparable to the many issues facing this country. And the GOP is waiting hungrily to "eat Sanders for lunch" if he is the Dems candidate. Warren has the policies and the chops to take on Trump. The Sanders’ cult cost Clinton the election by sitting on their hands rather than voting in 2016. Trump has a cult that likes chanting "lock her up" and considers the important issues of politics not one jot as they drool over Trump’s lies. Sanders' cult like going to rallies and feeling the "Bern." If Sanders’ policies are the issue voting for Warren should not be a problem and she can have Booker or Castro as VP and take back the Oval Office.
3
Not a fan of Senator Sanders. His record in Congress demonstrates him to be ineffective when he authors the bills.
Senator Sanders seems completely uninterested in governing, but wholly obsessed about campaigning.
The gig isn't for campaigner in chief, it is for commander in chief.
5
Regarding the billionaire class,
"We had to struggle with the old enemies of peace--business and financial monopoly, speculation, reckless banking, class antagonism, sectionalism, war profiteering.
"They had begun to consider the Government of the United States as a mere appendage to their own affairs. We know now that Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob.
"Never before in all our history have these forces been so united against one candidate as they stand today. They are unanimous in their hate for me--and I welcome their hatred."
Who said that? Franklin D. Roosevelt.
5
Corporations are not people. But we are. And we want Bernie!
Sanders 2020
7
Dump Trump is the only important issue here. It's unlikely Bernie Sanders will get the nomination so at that point will he really support the nominee or will he like last time do so with so little enthusiasm that Trump wins again since his followers, like Trump's, are fanatical? Bernie is more interested in spouting his agenda than getting rid of Trump and that's the danger. If he wins the nomination, the other candidates will rally around him. We're just not sure if he will rally around them, if he doesn't. My personal choice has rarely been the nominee but I always enthusiastically support the final Democratic nominee. Why? Just look at the other side! They're scary. I just hope the Bernie supporters will rally around the final nominee whether it's him or not. Just dump Trump.
1
The Rust Belt exit polls in 2016 proved incontrovertibly that Bernie was far preferred over Trump by the very white, working-class voters Dems most desperately need to win back to take back the White House. It was arrogant and stupid for the fat cats who ran the 2016 Democratic party to nominate the most hated nominee ever chosen by the party, especially hated in the Rust Belt. Bernie would have crushed Trump from PA to WI, and thus won a huge landslide nationally. Good to see so many people finally figuring out that white Rust Belt workers would once again make Bernie a much stronger candidate against Trump than the former senator from DuPont and the big banks, Biden. If Bernie is nominated, Jill Biden’s threat that progressives would have “no choice” but to vote for Biden would go double for neoliberal moderates, especially Hillary women and Biden blacks. Any woman or black who failed to work and vote for Bernie, who has a flawless progressive record on women and blacks, would be shamefully betraying a woman’s right to choose and a black’s right to vote, and thus a traitor to her gender and/or race, not to mention their daughters and sons, given the way Trump would pack the courts against abortion and voting rights for decades to come.
3
He'll save American Democracy which is currently slave to corporate interests which is why I loathe the DCCC and DNC. I stand with him and AOC.
2
Thank you for this clarification of the difference between Sanders, a Democratic socialist in a great intellectual and political tradition, and Donald Trump, an oligarchic demagogue in a notorious company of dangerous losers. Bernie is like a good doctor: you may not like his manner or his medicine, but his first intention is to do no harm. Trump is a poison that will kill this country by destroying its soul.
4
12 counties in Michigan voted Obama twice and then Trump. 9 voted for Sanders. 22 counties in Wisconsin did the same and all 22 voted for Sanders. About 8m people took the time out of their workdays three times to vote for Obama twice (an anti-system self-claimed progressive) and then Trump. And now? We’re told the best opponent for the graft of Trump? Is Joe Biden, who gets Silver in the Olympics of politicians feeding at the public trough. It’s not as if three different sets of voters supported Obama, Sanders and Trump. This is us. There’s a political nihilism in America now, where after two more shockingly stupid and costly wars, a healthcare system that doesn’t work except if you’re rich and healthy, an education system that fails unless you bribe your way into college, an impeachment “trial” that fails even the most basic notions of fairness because everyone involved is so hopelessly conflicted and corrupt, and more, such that lots of us - Bernie Bros AND Trumpers alike - band together and say, Off with their heads!
Bernie would have beaten Trump in 2016, even with the Wall Street "Democrats" who backed Hillary opposing him. I am not certain that Bernie can beat Trump in 2020, but I am certain that an overwhelming Wall Street banality like Obama, or a Wall Street cheerleader like Hillary, will not win back the working class people who supported Bernie and Trump in 2016.
Hillary is out there bashing Bernie so that she can be responsible for electing Trump twice.
Obama needed to pass a 12 trillion dollar infrastructure investment program when he took office with control of both Houses of Congress, and he needed to require banks he was bailing out to make loans. Instead, he gave 1 trillion in bail outs to Wall Street, trillions more in printed money to the banks without requirements to make loans, and only provided a 1 trillion dollar stimulus for the masses.
Bernie was sincere in 2016 in addressing working class problems, and Trump was insincere but spoke about working class economic issues. And Trump believes in stimulating the economy (no matter how ham-handed it is better than the Obama-Hillary "sound money" policies that only help the wealthy).
Obama and Hillary belong back in the Republican Party where they might tame down its idiocy. Bernie is an old-timey Democrat, and he does not insult gun owners, nor mock other aspects of working class culture. Bernie might not beat Trump in 2020, but he has a better chance than a Hillary clone of either sex.
3
As a woman: 1) I do not another old white man screaming and pointing his finger 2) I don't think that wealthy kids should get a free education 3) free health care for all won't get passed by the House 4) candidates who support Unions need to respect that for many years Union Workers got benefits vs raises and don't want to give that up 5) his supporters love free stuff; they still live at home and take a lot for granted 6) he doesn't have a track record of playing nice with others....need I say more. I'm just so sick of him!
3
You caution readers to stop calling him a populist and then in the next sentence you call him a socialist, a label he and his followers disavow.
You say he's surging. With indignation every time he debates? Curmudgeon seems too benign a term. It recalls one of those cross-eyed rainbow-colored fuzzballs people hang from their rearview mirrors. Benie ain't that. Dyspeptic old .... might be closer to the first base line boxes.
The Bernie Bros need to stop calling people "centrists." I'm not a centrist, I'm a spiritual descendent of radicals like Charles Sumner and Charlie Parker.
By the way...if you want to see what REAL fighting looks like, watch Adam Schiff.
It’s not givng speeches and yelling a lot, you know.
3
Except to say that they are both bad for the Democrat party, there is no comparison.
His policy intentions in foreign policy is isolationist, all similar to the terribly tragic mistakes of the 1930s. Isolationist policies of the 1930s resulted in horrendous tragedies of WII and the Holocaust, which the isolationists and socialists of the 1930s -like Norman Thomas- could not even dream of. I think Bernie is dangerous and irresponsible.
1
OK I won't call him a populist, and I certainly won't call him a realist. What I will say is that here's a 78 year old dude who had a major heart 'event' while campaigning who won't release his full medical records, although at first he said he would. Who is so full of himself he doesn't think this will have any blow-back during the run-up to the election. And most of all, who thinks he's still up to the job with this level of health problems. If this was Biden or Warren, there'd be screams for them to withdraw, they're medically at risk, they're going to lose the election.
This guy is a non-starter in a general election in a country where 'socialism' is treated like a deadly disease. And spare me the "people are suffering, they're going to vote for a candidate who supports Medicare for all, free college, even if Trump calls him a socialist 20 times a day..". No they aren't. Those folks continually vote against their self interest, and they're voting in the swing states.
2
Clearly, those within the mainstream democratic party that look for reasons not to support Sanders, but more importantly his polices, are those that continue to fail to recognize why Trump got elected in the first place. Trump told people what they wanted hear, not what he was going to attempt to accomplish while in power, in other words, he lied to get votes and in doing so, has done quite the opposite of what he "allegedly" promised.
The constant "tinkering around the edges, so-called pragmatic" approach of the corporate/moderate centrist has been a dismal failure in dealing with the real problems that have emerged in the country within the last 35-40 yrs. and Trump's election just confirmed it.
Sanders who has pushed for these same policies his entire political life, is attempting to introduce polices that will help all Americans, that once implemented, will go a long way towards preventing another "Trump style" demagogue emerging in the future and to do less than dealing with these issues "head on" would be a grave mistake for America going forward and that is regardless how the corporate/establishment feels about it.
Sanders approach may seem belligerent, however, he is saying to this same group, "if you are not going to be part of the solution, then just get out of the way".
4
The NYT regularly refers to Bernie Sanders as a populist. I hope that this thoughtful Op Ed will convince them to stop this practice.
3
How quickly Americans for get their own history(assuming they even knew it in the first place). Bernie is an old style democrat, it was what the party USED TO BE not the "Republican Lite" imitation that has turned off so many even within its own party that ultimately got Trump elected in the first place.
America is on its way to a "democracy challenged" Ayn Rand, Libertarian style of society and yet, it seems the only ones that don't realize it are Americans themselves. Record amounts of poverty and inequality, a UN report that confirms millions of Americans don't even have clean drinking water and live beside "third world" open sewer systems and a healthcare system that is imploding with a country whose lifespan is reducing.
From where I sit, Sanders and progressives like him who actually care about ALL of America, not just the few, is your only real hope, yet, based on some of the comments, the "dog eat dog, winner take all" society that infests America seems to be what some prefer.
157
@Deus Unquestionably, America has moved more rightward, and thus the push to go back in Sanders' direction. It can credibly be argued that Reagan would be too "left" for the GOP today. But I don't agree that Bernie cares about ALL of America. Despite his long-ago appearance at civil rights demonstrations, he does not presently seem to care about--or get much support from--people of color and women. Although he certainly cares about getting their votes.
2
@Patrice Fitzgerald
Your idea of lack of support from women and people of color may have been the case the last time around but certainly not now. I suggest you look at the polls that break down the various groups, not just the general overall numbers. you will be in for quite a surprise.
20
@Patrice Fitzgerald
"A potential boost to Sanders’s campaign this time around is support from Latino voters, with whom the senator is leading nationwide, according to a January Morning Consult tracking poll."
"Mr. Sanders is also the leading recipient of donations from Latinos as well as the most popular Democrat among registered Latinos who plan to vote in the Nevada and California primaries. According to Essence magazine, Mr. Sanders is the favorite candidate among black women aged 18 to 34. Only 49 percent of his supporters are white, compared with 71 percent of Warren supporters. Perhaps most surprising, more women under 45 support him than men under 45."
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/10/opinion/bernie-sanders-multiracial-workers.html
check your facts
17
At least Bernie has a sense of humor.
5
The people believe in Bernie and his vision for a progressive America.
Sanders 2020
7
Bernie Sanders not only demonizes the 'billionaire class', he accuses them of standing in the way of the welfare of the working class. That is dangerous for our society, and not something we need preached from the bully pulpit, the presidency. History has seen this play before, it didn't end well anywhere.
2
@LHP
It has been stated by many pundits recently that the 2020 election will be a battle for the future of America, BUT, it will not necessarily be the battle that one believes it to be.
It will NOT be right vs. left
It will NOT be socialism vs. capitalism
It WILL BE Oligarchy vs. democracy. In being able to buy politicians and elections themselves, that alone subverts democracy. it is the BILLIONAIRE class that has subverted those at the lower echelon to receive a higher minimum wage and benefits in their jobs, it is the BILLIONAIRE class that subverts regulation that destroys the environment and the list goes on.
You may want to rethink who are the ones that are the REAL danger to America going forward.
3
Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump are similar in that they both have cult followings and millions of Americans either love them or hate them. So here's the question: does this country, regardless of the political side of the aisle he comes from, need a divisive bloviator who's never wrong and who has no chance of delivering on the promises he makes? I report, you decide.
4
So populism that you agree with is ok because that is not a threat to Democracy? Trump is the same as Putin and Orban? Sanders who advocates confiscating the property of those deemed too wealthy for redistribution to workers (which is not anything done in Denmark) is not proposing Socialism as an alternative economic model? Just trying to get the logic clear, because Bernie sure looks, walks, and talks like someone who wants to dismantle our economic system by motivating a movement against “the rich”. I guess new persons freedom fighter is another’s terrorist...
1
Sorry to hurt your feelings, but Bernie and trump while different in some policies are alike in their methods and using their cult like status to bully opposing views.
I won’t vote for either un democratic candidate.
3
As a lifelong Democrat Bernie's refusal to run as a Democrat has always bothered me. And then how he trashed HRC in 2016 and Elizabeth Warren recently - maybe he really doesn't think a woman can do the job of president. Now the reason I believe that his following is like a cult is that it is irrational to think that someone who will be 79 when he takes office and just had a major cardiac event will make it to the end of his term however pure his ideology is.
1
Just because a qualified doctor and a snake-oil salesman appeal to the same group of people -- the chronically ill -- doesn't make a qualified doctor in any way equivalent to a snake-oil salesman. The tragedy occurs when sick people fail to discern who is the fraud and quack and who is the real healer.
6
A Princeton Professor outdoes an ex-Princeton Professor could be a better title.
Read this versus the OpEd by Professor Krugman a couple of days ago in the same pages and tell yourself what is the difference between academic brilliance and partisan writing.
Bernie is a wonderful person who will help us put the nation in the right track like FDR did.
The Times should stop their attacks on the best person out there and follow reason into a Rawlsian society rather than an Orwellian.
Thank you for publishing this piece.
6
Thank you! Finally at the Times somebody is speaking reason on this subject. Much appreciated.
3
Hard to be a populist if nobody likes you. As Hillary put it yesterday.
While noisy, I suspect his supporters are a minority, clustered in a few towns and campuses and many will not get off the sofa in November.
2
@Me
No, what Hillary REALLY said was that her corporate/establishment elitist friends in Washington didn't like Bernie, the rest of the country is quite the opposite and when you see that the "elitists" don't like you, that should be a "badge of honor".
1
Bernie and Clinton and Biden and billionaires !!!!!
Please stage left !!!! NOW!
You will hasten our Republics’ demise.
Bernie has contrived a legend about himself based on a few ancient college days sound bites.
My sister resided in Vermont among a bunch of politico uplanders. At picnics they would converse about Bernie and shake their heads and laugh. Most thought him benign and useless .A Vermont joke. Pointing to Vermont eccentricity and poor economic footprint. Beautiful state. Beats to mostly trust fund babies drums .
1
Bernie Sanders reminds me of Fidel Castro...only Fidel was a stronger speaker and Bernie just comes across as an angry old man that has missed his mark...
3
Thanks professor.
2
And please stop call him a radical.
3
Well I’ll get Bernie credit. He has a lot of Folks out there shilling for him—all highly educated and some might even be from the US.
2
Trump is a kleptocrat in populist clothing. Sanders is a populist.
Easy, eh?
2
If you seriously believe Republicans are willing to vote for "the right kind of Democrat," you probably have a lot in common with all the suckers who attended Trump University.
3
I'd compare the Bern to a mean
spirited Larry David, but w/ sharper
elbows
2
The saddest thing about this article is that its contents used to to be taught in junior civics class. Y'all got nice guns though, for defending yourselves against government. LOL.
1
While the NYT "officially" endorsed Senators Warren and Klobuchar, it is very clear from recent articles--including the ones lifting Hillary Clinton's remarks out of context from a long interview with a provocative headline and an accompanying scathing to Clinton op-ed from a Gen Y writer--that the NYT favors Bernie Sanders.
1
Inspired by Denmark? Is this author so naive so as to think that what works in Denmark would work in the United States? Is this the best they’ve got to support a socialist agenda? Do you want a list of so called socialist economies that failed miserably or would that get in the way of your blinders? God help us if our only choice is a socialist or a despot.
3
Sanders is a fraud. I’m a Democrat, he’s not. I won’t vote for him.
2
so you would rather have trump as president then?
Sanders's success has a lot of folks showing their true colors.
2
'The socialist from Vermont is not a threat to American democracy. The president is.'
Neither is. The hatred-filled and deranged thoughts of Trump somehow being a danger for US are worthless blabbing of the 'liberals' who believe that they see and understand what one half of America did not and is not. That's their mental issue, amply demonstrated for years, and probably incurable.
Both, BS and DT are prime representatives of democracy in US, which works just exactly as it should, and it would be a nice clash between them in Nov.
2
I think it's a mistake to allow right-wing populists to appropriate the concept of populism and turn it into something necessarily evil. There are varieties and shades of populism, and they are not all inherently anti-democratic. Sanders' appeal is largely classically populist in its language and content, and while one may not agree with his views, there is nothing inherently evil or undemocratic about Sanders' populism. Let's not allow demagogues to rob us of an important political category. Isn't our political language already impoverished enough?
1
Bernie might not be a populist, but he certainly is stubborn, bull headed and doesn't listen to or work well with others. Just like Trump.
78
when it comes to confronting the climate crisis, it is important to be stubborn.
when it comes to achieving universal health care, it is important to be stubborn.
when it comes to insisting that billionaires pay their fair share, it is important to be stubborn.
when it comes to ensuring that the american people, not washington elites, dictate American policy, it is important to be stubborn.
there is no middle ground on human rights. no middle ground on fighting sexism and racism. no middle ground on addressing climate change. no middle ground on whether or not someone should die for lack of healthcare because they're broke. no middle ground on the right of every working american to enjoy a livable and dignified standard of living.
further, take a closer look at his legislative history---he has a clear record of reaching across the aisle and a number of successes that clearly refute the suggestion that he cannot compromise or work with others.
30
Nobody ever claimed Bernie is a populist, and the author here knows it, he is a socialist and proud of it. Mr. Trump is the only populist running for President, who sees the middle class as his base, while Bernie appeals to the young and the poor, who are often the same people. As far as a threat, it is clear Bernie sees himself as an angry Robin Hood, seeing the rich as the enemy of the people, whose wealth is stolen from the
people. Vast redistribution will happen under Bernie in the areas of health care, education and housing. He believes the mantra "You didn't build that" first advanced by Liz, meaning whatever fortune you have made in not really yours, but rather your money is ill gotten and belongs to the people, which really means the government.
4
@Midwest Josh You're saying he's stubborn, but what I'm hearing is that he is strong enough to stand up for what he really believes. You say he's bull headed, but what I'm hearing is that he's willing to fight for what I want in government. You're saying he doesn't work well with others, but I'm hearing that he isn't willing to make political compromises that undermine his goals. This is everything I've ever wanted in a Democratic presidential candidate and I just wanted to thank you for reminding me to donate to his campaign.
21
Thanks, I've always felt such words as "populist were a slur; and they are.
Lately Sanders is getting attacked from left and right because his "message" is correct, honorable and sincere. And is what most people are looking for: authenticity and truth and the possibility of some help. The word "message" is almost a slur in itself, because it implies too much simplicity and connotes some kind of "packaged nonsense." More and more, people are running into the weaknesses of capitalism, Republicanism and the philosophy of Ayn Rand which is and always was a disaster in term of real human growth, understanding of human nature and kindness toward others.
Bernie understands and tries to put forward a true philosophy for making America Great. The corruption in Washington has gotten so obvious that everyone sees it now. Bernie wants to correct it. Populist is a deep misunderstanding of him and the failing of America.
3
But the point is not what or who the candidate is, the point is what the opposition will make them in the eyes of the electorate. The point is power. Even if Bernie were to become the President, the country would be so polarized that nothing would get done. Only a Biden candidacy will not only win the presidency, but also all those folks who want to believe in our government again. Then we'd have the House, the Senate and the power to get things done.
1
in the eyes of his critics, Mr. Sanders does not just criticize corruption, but demonize what for years he has consistently been calling the “billionaire class.”
The problem with Sanders is not that he rails against the "billionaire class." The problem is that he rails against anyone who agrees with any point of the "billionaire class" as being corruptly in their pocket, without considering the possibility that someone would simply do an independent assessment that coincidentally reaches the same conclusion. It's a lesser scale of Trump's accusing anyone who disagrees with his sycophants as being "un-American," but it is not a difference in kind.
2
Bernie is a populist because he is a demagogue who is blaming a zillion problems this country has on a small group of scapegoats - and propagates mythological thinking that by taking wealth from billionaires everyone would live like the Danish, with wonderful free healthcare, education, affordable housing, maternity and paternity leave, good retirement and whatnot. Denmark and some other European countries were able to get there not because they strip their rich of the wealth - for that matter, there are no wealth taxes almost anywhere, and if we include state and local taxes an average billionaire in NYC is taxes on income about as much as in Germany (and more than in Switzerland or Ireland). The talk that Bernie and his "friends" never talk is that Euro middle classes finance their majestic social welfare system by taxing themselves - primarily by the VAT at 20%+ levels, and also by the income tax that gets close to the highest marginal rate at about median income level or slightly higher. If Bernie proposes such scheme I'll be all ears... but he will not!
3
Bernie vs. Donnie—this will be fun—DOW 30,000–Trump 2020!
4
Between the current oversize negative coverage of Hillary Clinton—which among other things triggers associations of the 2016 Democratic campaign (throwing dirt on Hillary morning noon and night) — NY Times does it now, even during an impeachment trial of Trump!—taking the side of Bernie the autocrat, the spoiler. How could you! Why?! It makes no sense at a moment like this.
1
Bernie is an Independent party socialist and leader of his misogynistic Bernie Bros. They are every bit as loathsome as the Trump cult members--sans the Southern accents in fact even worse as they are purportedly educated, but still rabid.
6
Reading these comment makes me sad. The hate the lies the the smears.
Most of them are talking points made by Hillary for payback or the DCCC for their fear of higher taxes of the donor class.
We laugh and scratch our heads at how the republican base will vote against their best interest over and over but here we are doing the same.
Biden who the establishment wants as the nominee is corrupt to the bone. Voted for the Iraq war, Wrote the bankruptcy bill. Wonder why you cant get rid of student loads? Biden did that for his donors , the credit card industry. I have little hope of seeing this post with the NYT censoring anything bad about Biden but its worth a shot.
5
*Democratic Socialist from Vermont...(yes and thank you)
2
Reading the comments is quite depressing. Many demonstrate that they have no knowledge of your own political history. 2 cousins, one Republican, one Democrat at 2 pivotal periods in your history, put the oligarchy in their place; TR & FDR. In my lifetime, LBJ used all of his political capital to pass Voting Rights, Medicare and Medicaid. A few mention that the last 2 Democrat presidents, issued from the same DLC movement of the 80's is what the "true" democrats should choose as their nominee. Clinton gave you NAFTA (that great sucking sound of jobs off shored as Perot said in'92). Clinton campaigned that he wouldn't sign it but did less than a year later. Bill also set you up for the crash in '08 by eliminating Glass-Steagall. He allowed Gringrich to pollute US political process and bowed down and eliminated/decimated the little social safety net that existed in the US at the time. Obama wasted his entire political capital when Democrats controlled both houses in his first 2 years. That was to be expected as he was a novice and appointed so many Clinton hangers on. 2 presidents running on "hope" and "yes we can" alienated so many. 100 million of your compatriots didn't vote in 2016. Democracy takes work. Make your voices heard. Get out in the streets. But by all means, vote. Pay attention to movements in other countries that are working to break the grip of the oligarchy.
6
Here’s a one word response to Mr. Muller’s delusion that only right wing nuts criticize other types of people for who they are: “Deplorable.” That’s a partial quote, Mr.Muller, in case you don’t recognize it.
3
Whether Bernie's a populist or not, there might be such a thing as good populism.
He's got my primary vote.
5
Bernie is the best candidate hands down. Biden has been trying to cut social security for 30+ years. He has taken mountains of cash from the credit card industry. If you are wondering why you cant discharge your student load dept in bankruptcy? Biden.
6
A most interesting debate that suggests that, although News Outlets want to appear impartial by giving equal time and space to bothe opposing parties, they are not similar, one authoritarian, rigid, and discriminatory; the other more open and welcoming of our differences and more inclusive at the end. In that sense, Sanders is, compared to Trump, a gentleman; in other words, one that exercises prudence (advocating for what is right, however difficult, to fight inequality) and where the words 'honest and decent' are in his lexicon. Populism is a charged word that fascists use...to abuse their power in the name of a populace kept clueless on purpose, exploited to no measure to assure their re-election 'in perpetuity'. Vulgar Trump remains a disgrace, as he continues to misgovern with a mantra of 'fear, hate and division'.
2
The professor's premise is Trump poses a threat to the Republic. As an aside he also alleges "spectacular" cruelty. But then he offers a very academic supporting argument for his conclusion by giving us the differences between Sander's populism and Trump's. But that is all that argument is, academic. Because no one cares. If you support Trump you don't buy racism has anything to do with his stance on immigration from the middle east or across the Mexican border. And if you don't support him you do buy that. Sure there are lunatics on the right who support Trump who are racist and even white nationalists. But it's a mistake to project those attributes onto those who can't stomach the so called progressive Sanders or Warren.
1
I think Warren and Sanders are very much like Trump.
Their plans and ideas divide our nation.
They are both demagogues.
They both target certain groups of people and demonize them.
3
Of course Sanders is a populist - and that is a good thing! It is only in the last few years that neoliberal corporate plutocrats and their media lackeys have tried to tarnish the word "populist" by associating it with right-wing demagogues. I wonder why.
5
I guess if wanting everyone to PAY their FAIR share of taxes make me "jealous of what others have" and a "Socialist", then I welcome it. Call me whatever you'd like, but I expect the wealthy to climb off the backs of the working class.
6
"Mr. Sanders as always being his same sincere, authentic self." Many of us don't believe that he is the best candidate. His Trump-like rallies and his cult following are just as obnoxious as Trump's. Campaigns are one thing, but governing is another. I don't believe that Sanders is up to the task.
FDR-JFK-Bernie. They all propose the same policies and they all stand for integrity and defense of the nation.
Anyone who does not agree with those fundamental American principles should be ashamed of themselves.
5
The Socialist from Vermont is indeed a threat to democracy. He’s a Socialist.
Furthermore, he behaves like Donald Trump.
5
Do you know what a Socialist is?
Have you read anything by Marx in its entirety?
Have you read more than a page of Marx?
Do you know that he was born in Trier in 1818 and not in New York City in 1890?
Do you know that he was probably not related to Groucho Marx?
Probably not (on all of the above).
1
Trump is MORE of a threat to Democracy, but *any* demagogue who tries to fire up supporters by blaming one sub-group is a threat to Democracy. Especially if he/she does so by simplifying and distorting the truth.
Yes, Trump is a threat to our form of government but I won't ignore that Sanders was for many years a communist and it was only after the fall of Soviet communism that he became a so-called democratic socialist.
3
I can understand if Mr. Müller's personal political preferences lay with the Democratic Party's radical left, but this bizarre attempt to justify one style of populist politics as acceptable, and the other as a threat to the Republic is simple word twisting. By saying one represents the "real people", somehow that means you're attacking the unreal ones? I hope this author turned himself back outside in before dinner!
1
pop·u·list
noun
a person, especially a politician, who strives to appeal to ordinary people who feel that their concerns are disregarded by established elite groups.
Bernie*is* a populist, just not a dangerous demagogue like Trump. There's no reason to treat populist, i.e., appealing to the people as a whole, as a dirty word.
2
The question that perplexes Trump haters is what his loyal base actually sees in him. Yes, he is a populist demagogue, but he is obviously a lying, self interested blowhard who has pursued a career of self interest at the expense of others. He is a proven conman, but people they appear to have fallen for his con.
It is true that Bernie’s unrealistic, benevolent policies and overstated but justified attacks on the financially powerful are not damaging to our a Democracy.
But just as liberals are blind to Trump’s appeal to his faithful, they are also blind to the reality that Bernie is also pulling a con job. He cannot enact his social legislation; he cannot strip the profit motive from the capitalists; he cannot convert our capitalist system to Danish like Democratic Socialism. The fact is, the Danes have made a social compact that stresses the common good versus the competition that underpins our economy. Thise who profit from our economy are not going to march to Bernie’s version of L’Internationale. Most of us believe we are on the profit side of the ledger.
Bernie pushes all the buttons that stimulate progressive minded Americans to overlook the impracticality of his proposals and his inability to enact them.
Fine tuning Obama’s idea of putting capitalism on a lease with Obamacare, Dodd-Frank and enacting campaign finance reform with teeth is realistic progressiveness. Bernie’s appeal to emotion damages the possibility of realistic solutions.
1
Brilliant piece. Thank you!!
2
In the last congressional elections the Democrats flipped 40 seats. Of those only two were progressives. This should speak volumes to all of us. Here in the Midwest I don't believe that any candidate that is perceived as a socialist has much of a chance. Most of my friends (most of them Democrats) now say that we should prepare ourselves to 4 more years of Trump because around these parts Bernie, Warren and AOC have done harm to the Democrats.
3
A Princeton Professor outdoes an ex-Princeton Professor could be a better title.
Read this versus the half-crazed mush by Krugman a couple of days ago in the same pages and tell yourself what is the difference between academic brilliance and fanaticism.
Bernie is a wonderful person who will help us put the nation in the right track like FDR did.
The Times should stop their rabid attacks on the best person out there and follow reason into a Rawlsian society rather than an Orwellian.
Thank you for publishing this piece.
4
Okay. we won't call him a Populist.
We'll just call him the Grumpy Old Man candidate.
4
Billionaires are great. All Bernie wants is to have them pay their fair share. If that’s socialism, count me in
4
Language is a slippery slope.
People, and particularly journalists, have called Trump a populist.
HA !
Oh, I don’t know, I believe the anti-American Marxist Sanders is a greater threat to America than the pro-American, freedom-loving, capitalistic Pres. Trump.
The only way Sanders should be in the White House is as a visitor. And even then I’m not so sure.
3
I'm getting lost in labels lately. This opinion piece refers to "liberal centrists." One of the comments includes "Centrist, Establishment Left." I've read about liberal fascists and right-wing anarchists.
Huh? I wonder if these sorts of oxymorons have been focus-group tested to sow confusion and expedite the end of the age of reason. I'm only kinda sorta exaggerating.
1
What is lost in the present discussion about Senator Sanders's resume is what his record actually shows. Contrary to what fearful contrarians and political rivals say about him, he has been an effective civil rights advocate, mayor, representative, and senator. His career summary, although from a liberal source, is documented with links to objective sources is below:
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2019/5/5/1855034/-Bernie-Sanders-is-an-accomplished-effective-leader-hope-you-read-this-and-learn-something-new?fbclid=IwAR27yNDIO5YY3FR2tEu7ZD2SBzJNP4wjr_cjHi1xkqiMnGK_GnubdJC8qLA
2
Does any newspaper ever plan to vet Bernie Sanders, or are is it just going to be these occasional tongue baths?
1
Sanders' candidacy is an effort to confront the "populist" Trump's plutocratic revolution. Sanders' legitimately is running on principles that he will follow when elected. Trump's has no compass other than political power to pursue his corrupt vision of making wealthy people free from any constraint on the acquisition of money. Trump's revolution is to use the vast concentration of wealth to allow the concentration of power outside the constraints of democracy. Sanders' grass roots campaign is all about empowering those left out, which is the vast majority of Americans.
4
Bernie believes in the Rule of Law. Trump does not, just as no Republican will support the Rule of Law.
But, then, Obama was not born in Kenya, either.
1
Hmmm. He lies. He fosters, and by his silence encourages, a radical base of followers who spend their scraggly-bearded days hunched over screens, attacking other candidates—especially women—with unparalleled and unbridled misogyny. He has a ridiculously limited view of how our government actually works—you can’t just proclaim it and make it so—and he makes promises that he can never keep.
Sounds pretty familiar to me.
1
Most Sanders supporters are women.
1
Looking forward to seeing my comment at 3!
1
Thanks, this needs to be repeated again and again. Having bold ideas does not make you anti-democratic. Bernie and Trump cannot be compared at all. Trump is a self serving anti-democratic bully pushing hateful rhetoric. Bernie Sanders is a compassionate, pro-democracy man with an inclusive message.
He speaks truth to power, that is very different from painting large groups of people as rapists, murderers, and animals.
4
you can bet that the Right will attack Bernie Sanders- hold on tight to your money, Republicans- we know what you are afraid of!
2
@mildred rein Ph.D.
Bernie is even being attacked from within the democratic party itself, so what does that say about them? The corporate/establishment centrist wing are nothing more than a failed "Republican Lite" appendage of the Republican Party itself that would much rather collect money from rich donors(the same ones that give to Republicans)than actually winning elections with real constructive policies.
4
Excellent column! Whether you're a Bernie supporter or not.
3
Hugo Chavez style policies are indeed the biggest threat to this country
4
Why don't we stop with the name-calling? I'm referring to the term "Bernie Bros," which is an infantile and not useful way of saying that you disagree with certain people. Didn't your mothers ever tell you that it's rude to call people names?
2
Brilliant, simply brilliant.
BUT ... I wonder if the author would - heaven knows, many before him have done just this - find an ingenious argument to support, say, a Chavez-type "populist," one whose "values" ring so true to the author that he'd be ready to overlook an anti-democratic policy or 2 (or 100)?
I know that nobody CAN know the answer, but - while I and many agree with him that comparisons between Bernie and Donald are ridiculous, there ARE tougher calls to be made, and the intelligentsia has lots of blood on its hands over the last couple of millenia.
Would Bernie say - if he could make it stick, "I know better than the avg voter what's in his/her best interest, so I'm going to pull a Mitch and make M4A happen. The heck with 'polls.' "
In my lifetime, Castro certainly "got a pass" from even a few non-Communists "because his country was all but under attack from - among others - US." It's devilishly hard to "play God" at the time these tradeoffs occur. In fact, even 60+ years after he came to power (and took the dramatic early steps that were not universally applauded), it's not clear what judgment Mr. History would make. I very much suspect that it is (and always will be) one of those split verdicts where a truly objective student would say, "There are no axioms in History as there are in Math." "Democracy" can be a lot harder to certify than the author would have us believe. Suppose the first election comes 10 years after a putsch, to name a simple example!
Hooray for the Times printing this favorable article on Bernie Sanders. Besides the plaudits received, what he daily point out must be noted:
He daily advances the cause of millions of Americans who have suffered economic and social injustices in our nation, many most egregious:
We have 500,000 homeless.
3 people owe more than the bottom 50% of the people in out country.
A minimum wage only $7.50 per hourin the richest country on earth is a disgrace.
1/2 people live from paycheck to paycheck.
There is outrageous student debt.
250% of new income in the past 30 years went to top 1%.
The infant mortality rate is double that of whites among blacks.
There is no child-care system in the US, as in all other advanced nations.
Blacks are13% of population, but are only 4% of doctors, 7% public school teachers.
The Health-care industry in our country made 100 billion dollars in 2019.
1/2 million people were made bankrupt paying health-care in 2019.
That is Bernie's message. If this is does not point out what's wrong with our country, what Bernie's trying to fix, I don't know what is.
3
There is only one distinction that matters. One of them is not an amoral lunatic.
6
I mostly agree with the distinctions you draw, but you omit perhaps the most important one. Trump is phony. He lies constantly, apparently making up things as he goes, about himself, about the world, about government. I, for one, am not even convinced that he is as stupid as he pretends to be. Sanders, whether you agree with his vision or not, bases it in reality, and his philosophy reflects his beliefs, not his pursuit of profit & power. You may interpret Sanders’ resumé differently, but he has always played within the rules of Democracy; Trump has always “succeeded” through tax evasion, bankruptcy & making his lenders dependent on him (&, of course, by playing a fictional character on television).
2
I'm less and less of a Bernie fan, especially after he personally reinforced his campaign's fraudulent acontextual video of Biden, but he is obviously not a mob boss, situational gaslighter, sexist, racist, or autocrat.
There is no comparison.
1
@Lee
It wasn't fraudulent, it was VERY accurate.
3
@Deus
Nope. Did you watch it? It was, like Adam Schiff's take on what Trump had said, a rhetorical trope. Biden was RIDICULING the position that he was re-capitulating.
You guys are true believers, it seems.
1
Paul Krugman is a prime example, claiming to have "the conscience of a liberal" while repeatedly bashing Bernie Sanders. His latest column claims Bernie Sanders is a liar comparable to Donald Trump, although he claims he doesn't want to "go overboard." He's already overboard, so it's way too late for that. I hope his conscience starts bothering him soon.
4
Thanks much for this antidote to some current poison. What E.Warren did and then what H.Clinton did
to B.Sanders was terrible and immoral.
Inspired I guess by #MeToo resurrections.
They may have caused the loss of a progressive rally against
the 'neo-conservative' corporate war-machine establishment.
It has nothing to do with gender, but Warren and then Hillary seriously misspoke some accusations of ancient misogyny as if it did.
3
Both have issue with women. In 2016 Bernie attract some very sexists white males accounting to accounts which seem to ahve been forgotten, see https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/02/us/politics/bernie-sanders-campaign-sexism.html.
In 2020, he recently released a highly edited and misleading video about Biden. Sounds too familiar to me.
1
What complete and utter nonsense. If anyone treats others as if they are not worthy of consideration, it's the democrats who still have no clue why trump got elected and treat anyone who supports him as ignorant and unworthy of civil discourse. And citing Denmark is comical. As predicted, once you throw a few minorities into the mix, this utopia is now reverting to form and treating its minorities as animals.
2
Sanders is the Trump of the left: intolerant and crude.
3
Another salient difference between Sanders' brand of populism and that of Trump is that the policies Sanders would actually help that part of the population whose cause he champions - the 99%. Taking money out of politics would undoubtedly benefit those without money. Universal health insurance would undoubtedly benefit those who are currently without health insurance. Recognizing that immigrants are human beings with human rights would undoubtedly help those who are currently treated as sub-human.
Trump's policies, on the other hand, are nothing but lip service designed to divide the 99%. One example is Trump's trade war, which undisputably has hurt American farmers, the same people he pretends to represent. Another is Trump's wall along the border with Mexico, which experts have said will, or would, do nothing to stem illegal immigration and the main purpose of which is to paint immigrants as criminals bent on destroying the US. And so on.
In a nutshell, Sanders' populism is genuine, whereas Trump's populism is a misnomer or, as he would say, fake news.
3
Labels are limiting, especially when used in a pejorative way.
Still, Bernie Sanders and his appeal is very much populist.
The populism of Donald Trump is different from the populism of Bernie Sanders. They have different targets of ire.
Donald Trump also is one of the greatest promoters of misinformation of all time.
If Bernie Sanders poses a threat to American democracy, then it is the potential for his campaign for the Democratic nomination, win or lose, to divide the party's efforts to regain the White House in November.
2
@chris
No one is attempting to divide anything, it is an attempt to turn the democratic party back to what it once was, a party that represented everyone, not just an appendage of the current Republicans that relish money first and everything else second.
2
I've always bristled at Sanders being called a populist. Thanks for making the case to the public at large.
1
Some classic "sappy talk about healing America as a nation" from our 16th president:
With malice toward none, with charity for all, with firmness in the right as God gives us to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work we are in, to bind up the nation's wounds, to care for him who shall have borne the battle and for his widow and his orphan, to do all which may achieve and cherish a just and lasting peace among ourselves and with all nations.
1
It’s really disappointing to me that the Dem nomination may be coming down to Sanders vs Biden when there are several more qualified people in the race.
@Larry Figdill Please don't be so disheartened that you fail to cast a vote and campaign for whoever becomes the Democratic nominee.
Labels create problems. Look at behavior instead. There are many similarities in behavior between Sanders and Trump. There are also some differences that derive from character, authenticity and just not being a mean and nasty person. Pejoratively labeling "liberal centrists" and the feelings and comments assigned/ascribed to that group is not helpful. It is my opinion that the descriptions of Bernie have more to do with his observed behavior and leadership style--also about his followers and how they behave--than ideology or policy ideas or even him as a person. It certainly is not about any label. I guess I have to include myself in that scorned-upon "moderate" group as I have apparently been kicked out of "liberal" and "progressive" simply because I don't care for Bernie's leadership style and have the perception that he would be less likely to accomplish the very things he espouses than someone who has a different set of skills, attributes and approaches. So few so called authorities seem to explicitly recognize that all of the Democrat candidates are essentially the same in terms of where they want to go and what they want to accomplish; that is direction and goals. They differ in how they work with others, strategy for achieving those objectives. We need "thorns" and nudges and even provocateurs but it takes a lot more than that and a completely different set of skills when it comes to leading an entire nation of this size -- and working with Congress.
1
The fact is that Mr. Sanders is a lot closer to being a populist than all the other figures that the people apply the label "populist" to. Calling Mr. Trump a populist is kind of accurate. He does lead a mass movement. But the populist label is really just used to identify Mr. Trump and any politicians--domestic or foreign--who people want to bash as being similar to Mr. Trump. Its only real meaning is as a synonym for "Don Trump." It would be nice if people stopped using it in that way. It is good to use words accurately. Populism used to be a good thing--it was a political movement in the late 19th century.
1
@Gordon Wiggerhaus
I am always amazed at so many Americans obsession with labels and buzzwords. For once, look at the polices of Sanders and forget the labels, you will be much better off for it.
6
@Deus Policies are not the only thing to look at when judging a candidate. Their ability to carry out their policies is just as--if not more--important. Sanders is very ineffectual and has been for 40+ years. He needs to go away.
1
@MMNY
So you would prefer the "dog eat dog, winner take all" mentality that is infesting American society? A corporate/establishment moderate got Trump elected in 2016 and it could happen again and even if the democratic moderate wins there will be another Trump waiting in the wings because just like before, they will have failed to have dealt with the problems "head on" that got Trump elected in the first place.
Yes Senator Bernie Sanders and President Forrest Thump do have something in common, ( the people ) Senator Sanders wants to improve their standard of life for example, medicare for all. A decent standard of edudation for all up to university level and beyond. The release of the financial chains around post graduate students necks and the list of basic human needs goes on and on and on. It is time that the media and other corporate interests started to take notice of the real issues instead of bowing to self centered interest and start to Make America Great Again by supporting Senator Bernie Sanders who only takes the peoples interest with the passion that they deserve. While the current impeached President only has himself to blame for his own mess. Thank you, Patrick Fulham.
5
This a persuasive and strongly articulated column; however, it's important to define the illusive buzzword term, "populism" and the taint it's received during the Trump era. Populism simply means a political view that privileges the voices of the majority of the population, as opposed to the wealthiest citizens with the most social, economic, and political power. Using this definition, Senator Bernard Sanders is a populist. Within a US context, populist movements have been waged to improve workers rights from the Agrarian revolts in the early 1900s to the formation of unions in the first part of the 20th century, which speaks to the popularity of FDR of the day. Since then, countless ethnic and women studies scholars have discussed at length how US populist movements intentionally excluded women and people of color. Bernie's brand of populism centers women and people of color as laborers as opposed to right-wing populism, which is inherently white nationalist. As a queer biracial woman of color, I find the cultural smears against Bernie supporters as white toxic male "Bernie Bros" is intellectually bankrupt and has little data to support it. Bernie's populism in juxtaposition with Trump's brand, will destroy all the fraudulent claims that progressives are elitist and don't care about working-class voters. In short, his electability case is stronger than ever since he has the majority of American's interests are the heart of his campaign.
3
Populism is not necessarily bad. It occurs when the sentiment of the populous runs counter to the thinking of the elites. Populist politicians try to appeal to this sentiment. Trump tries to appeal to our worst side, Bernie tries to appeal to our better kinder side. Both can be populism. In either case the elites feel threatened because they have lost the trust of the people. My advice, listen a little more and speak to people’s concerns.
4
Bernie represents the politics of envy, the urge to punish success, the intellectual dishonesty of socialism. Bernie preaches division and polarization, US and THEM, and leads us to hate other.
The policies of Hugo Chavez, that bankrupt and now starve Venezuela are the biggest threat to our country. Bernie's policies echo Hugo Chavez' so clearly.
truly disturbing.
Bernie ignores the data that shows the lower rungs of income are seeing very rapid wage growth. Look at the statistics, don't believe the divisive rhetoric.
7
Bernie knows that most Americans struggle to pay for expensive for profit health care and high interest student debt. Bernie thinks Americans should have what citizens of every other first world nation have had for decades. Bernie thinks our tax dollars would bring greater dividends to our nation by being invested in the health and education of Americans—rather than thrown at our bloated military industrial complex.
I’m voting for Bernie.
9
@Me Too
What statistics? Republican ones? The minimum wage in America has not risen in almost ten years, primarily because of the constant push back from the wealthy and corporations. Almost 50% of Americans couldn't come with an extra $500 for an emergency, and inequality is at an all time high since the 1920s. Almost 30 MILLION Americans(and growing) are without healthcare, yet, you want everyone to believe things are OK?
I am looking at the REAL statistics, NOT the propaganda put out by the wealthiest of Americans and their "think tanks".
4
@Deus the statistics are clear. Google them. Start with thr Atlanta Fedser Reserve website. Lots of good data. Don’t believe rhetoric , go to the data
1
Bernie's supporters are not a cult. Whatever Trump tweets on a particular day suddenly becomes the policy of his supporters. If Bernie declared, "We're going to cut taxes for the 1%. We're going to abandon the fight for climate change and Medicare For All," his supporters would drop him like a hot potato. That's the difference.
10
The difference between Trump and Sanders is Trump wanted Russia to be more like else. Sanders wants us to be more like them. He is a disaster waiting to happen . . . Only question is when . . . I think it’s much better that Democrats find out now rather than when he runs . . . Or (worse yet) is elected
I can only assume that Mr Muller slept through any class on political theory or economics. Socialism works until you run out of other people’s money to spend!
3
@George
Thank you Margaret Thatcher, a dinosaur even when she was Prime Minister.
2
Don’t worry about the billionaires. They aren’t going to run out of money.
Worry about the sick child whose mother can’t afford the expensive medication (4x the cost of the same drug in Canada). Worry about the elderly woman who rations her meds if she wants to eat 3 meals that day. Worry about the father starting a GoFundMe and begging to pay for his wife’s cancer treatment. Worry about the middle age man who just lost his job and his insurance and he isn’t feeling well but can’t afford to see a doctor.
Only in the USA. And the comfortable readers of the NYT think this is just fine.
1
Had to be said. Hillary should refrain from attacking all the political candidates. Bad form. And to say she won't vote for the Dems unless he or she meets her criteria is just low class. We have to stick together.
7
@Cynthia The Clinton or bust mantra that the Democratic Party practiced in the last election clearly got us Trump.
2
The analysis is overly generous to Sanders. It's also curious that the title of this piece was originally published as "Stop Comparing Bernie to Trump. It's Ridiculous" to a much softer "Please Stop Calling Bernie Sanders a Populist". The original title seems to accurately reflect the author's opinion; why change it?
Arguments in this piece are contradictory to Sanders's stated positions. For example, the author criticizes right-wing populists as "insinuating that some people do not belong at all". Sanders himself has stated publicly numerous times that billionaires should not exist in America, i.e. they don't belong at all. Trump cannot rid America of non-white people to appease his uneducated bigoted supporters any more than Sanders can rid the country of billionaires to appease his own disenfranchised supporters. Trump and Sanders use the same playbook of pandering to people seeking an "other" to blame for lacking what they must feel is some level of status they think they're entitled to.
The author also misses that Trump, like Sanders, does rally his underclass supporters against elites- he just likes to specify it's costal liberal elites that are destroying their life, whereas Sanders paints with a broad brush that all wealthy individuals are bad and must only have become wealthy by ruining the prospects and opportunities for the non-wealthy.
Sanders loves authoritarian rule, as long as he's the one making the rules. Sander's supporters are being duped.
3
So you think Americans should not invest tax dollars in health care and higher education. Americans should never have what citizens of every other first world nation on earth have had for decades.
5
@Zejee There's literally nothing in my post that even remotely suggests that there should be no investment of tax dollars in health care or higher education. You're pulling some pretty weird assumptions out of thin air.
2
Clearly, Sanders is not Trump. Most importantly, he seems to respect the rule of law. He also seems to care about all of those who are disenfranchised, whereas Trump only cares about white voters.
However, this article minimizes those aspects of Sanders's rhetoric that do indeed overlap with Trumpian "populism" -- the conspiracy theory ("the system is rigged"), the demonization of liberalism ("no difference between the parties"), the literal and metaphorical wall-building (pro-guns, anti-trade), the preposterous notion that 65 million Clinton voters--a huge electoral majority--are "elites." Like Trump, he also creates a cult around himself in which no other politician -- not even Elizabeth Warren! -- is considered legitimate.
Sanders's reckless rhetoric promotes cynicism about the messy processes of democracy and helps to create a climate in which populists are elected.
3
Sorry but Sanders is by far the greater threat. He's also for what it's worth a more traditional populist. At least Trump keeps his hand out of my pocket.
5
A threat? For me the threat is being diagnosed with cancer and unable to pay the medical bills that my expensive for profit insurance won’t pay. The threat for me is being unable to afford to send my children to college unless they take on onerous high interest debt that will take decades to discharge.
4
@Frunobulax
I am gathering then you would much prefer the "dog eat dog, winner take all, Ayn Rand Libertarian society" that is currently infesting America would you?
1
I like Sanders. The last thing we need is another Democrat that will compromise with Republicans. My biggest issue though is our commitment to unending wars. Trump’s recent adventures in the middle East have scared me to death. If he is re-elected I’m certain another war will break out. Nothing has hurt America more than war. Bernie is a fighter and there hasn’t been a fighting Democrat since Truman. I’m so so sick of wishy/washy Democrats. I can’t stand Biden but would vote for him against Trump.
11
The ability of the Left to wordsmith and rationalize something they support and condemn what they oppose never ceases to amaze me.
These two candidates do in fact have many similarities in style and temperament as well as many differences as to what they think America needs. To deny a comparison and ignore the extreme things (as viewed by others) that Bernie has said is disingenuous at best and dishonest at worst.
2
@Norville T. Johnstone
So, stating that 45,000 Americans die every year because they have no healthcare, inequality and poverty levels that are at record highs and poverty level minimum wages should NOT be opposed?
By the way, unlike Sanders, Trump doesn't oppose these things, he relishes in them.
3
@Deus
I'm not sure what point you are trying to make here and also don't see any evidence that Trump is relishing in the deaths of these people. If you have any , please share.
1
It's a crafty attempt to dismiss Bernie's message. If one were to draw parallels between others in the Democratic party campaign and vile public figures, past and present, there'd be no end to it. It's one thing for the media to make these silly comparisons. Their pay check depends on attracting the most attention. But it's unwise for progressives and Democrats to join in. At the worst, it only alienates those impressed by Bernie's campaign and message. No patriot wants a repeat of 2016. We need to come together and get trumpy out.
4
I like some of Bernie’s policies. But Bernie is to our election what Corbin was to the UK election. Too far left too quickly.
2
@Meyrick Payne
I don't know, given the momentum that he has built since 2016 and looking at the polls and his campaign donations from the largest cross section of the country, it would seem that a good portion of the populace believe that change has not come fast enough.
3
@Meyrick Payne We can count on the mainstream DNC to moderate his policies. They will not give up their greed any more than the Republicans will.
3
I feel like this entire article conflates populism with demagoguery. I don't think populism is inherently good or bad. Bernie and Trump are both populists by my definition, but only Trump is a demagogue.
3
Hard to imagine anything more selfish than running for president at age 80. Sanders is a career politician who has never accomplished anything legislatively. He doesn't work well with others, people don't like him the way they like Biden, he doesn't seem to be able to admit that he has made his living in politics.
1
Biden is 77, Bernie is 78 so your comments are a wash
2
Yeah we can’t have what citizens of every other first world nation have had for decades.
1
@Ted Hillary Clinton was not much younger than Sanders and she still insisted on running, giving us her one-time pal Trump
1
I'm not incensed that Sanders has a shot at the nomination because he would be an electoral disaster all down the ballot. I'm incensed because this damage would be done by a person whose views and policy prescriptions don't represent the great majority of the Democratic Party, rather a rabid base of fantasy driven socialists. The comparison to Trump is apt because whatever the GOP gains with Trump their brand is being defined for generations by him. Maybe that's okay for the jingoistic, bigoted GOP mouth breathing types but Democrats already have a reputatIon for speaking truth to power, regardless of what AOC and Bernie say, and the good work Democrats do every day should not be unwinded and distorted by an unyielding socialist. it's a canard that the two major parties are the same. Would Hillary have governed like Trump? No! Would Gore have governed like Bush 43? No! Let's make the Democratic party stronger in its push to win and implement its core philosophy of compassion and fairness for the average person and not drive away moderate voters (who are the people that decide elections) for generations.
1
I proudly voted for Senator Sanders while living in Vermont. I will do so again, for he is focused on one thing: Service. Most politicians (think McConnell, Trump, Pence, et al, are interested in one thing and only one thing: Their lousy careers.
9
Denmark is not, never was, and never will be a communist country that bans or restricts free enterprise and economic choice. M4A, GND and Sanders are communist solutions to problems freedom-loving Danes would scoff at.
2
What a wonderful surprise to read a piece from my former professor. I’m glad someone appropriately credentialed also found Mr. Krugman’s hitpiece accusing Bernie of Trumpism absolutely absurd.
Take notes, Paul.
7
@Julia Krugman is afraid of losing his wealth
1
What the Senate, Electoral College, Cabinet and Supreme Court of the United States don't you accept or understand that America is not and never was meant to be a democracy?
What percentage of the white men who didn't own any property, woman, African and Indigenous votes did Presidents George Washington through Woodrow Wilson receive?
Bernie is from Brooklyn. Trump is from Queens.
Bernie didn't have a real estate baron daddy.
Bernie hasn't had as many kids nor wives as Trump.
Bernie hasn't had a reality TV show.
Bernie is older than Trump.
Vermont is smaller and whiter than New York.
Bernie is smarter than Trump.
3
Donald Trump ran as a populist but had governed as a wealthy oligarch. Trump isn’t working on healthcare for all, affordability housing, living wages or education. All of his decrees and deregulation efforts have been to enrich the wealthy.
Voting for republicans is really bad for your health and if you re-elect Trump he is canine for your social security and Medicare to save his personal tax breaks.
4
Populism is a contested idea in American history. In the late 19th century, it picked up social force and led to the Populist Party. It was supported in the mid-west and south by farmers, who were hurting economically and wanted tariffs for protection against foreign competition. They also wanted low interest rates, so they could afford to borrow money to tide them over until their crops sold. So they wanted silver to act as a currency, as well as gold. The most famous leader of the populists and its related ideology, progressivism, was William Jennings Bryan, who ran for president in 1896, declaring that we should not crucify mankind on a cross of gold. In his Pulitzer Prize--winning book, the Age of Reform, Richard Hofstadter argued that many populists harbored anti-semitic and nativist beliefs. Other historians, such as Laurence Goodwyn, argued that they were democrats.
Bernie Sanders is basically on the left-wing of the Democratic Party, whose views can be traced back to Henry Wallace, Secretary of Agriculture and later Vice-President during FDR's third term. Like Bernie, he was an idealist, who argued that we could have cooperative relations with the Soviet Union after World War II. Centrists in the Democratic Party became alarmed, and persuaded Roosevelt to drop him from the ticket in 1944 and replace him with Harry Truman. In September of 1946, Truman fired him as Secretary of Commerce. He then formed a third party the Progressives, and ran for president in 1948.
2
"Democracy is not about consensus or bipartisanship or making us all get along. Its genius consists in the idea that it’s fine to have divisions and open conflicts. In fact, if there were no divisions at all, why would we have competitive elections?"
There's some truth to this statement. But it's also true that when the differences between those nearest the center in each party were relatively small and those at their parties' extremes were not the nominees, we had a period of great progress (with Republican and Democratic presidents ) on civil rights, environmental cleanup, infrastructure investment, women's rights, subsidized housing and education, etc. Some degree of consensus and compromise is perhaps more essential to a lasting, well-functioning democracy than the author suggests.
1
This is a good timely reminder. You're right. Bernie Sanders is not presidential, and he has unique drawbacks among the candidates that cause one to wonder if he would lose to Trump, which would be a disaster for the country. But although he is gravely flawed, and you can wonder about the judgment of his supporters, he is a fundamentally decent person whose heart is in the right place, who holds sincere beliefs. Donald Trump is simply an evil person, with no good qualities at all, and further, as you say, is a threat to our country and our culture. They are not in any way equivalent,
81
@Just Ben Bernie Sanders has the highest favorable rating of any candidate in the race, does the best among independents, defeated a Republican incumbent as an independent, is rated the most honest, and has the most money, volunteers, and donors.
36
@Just Ben
Er, in what way, is Bernie gravely flawed? Would you list his deficiencies in detail?
Is it his lifelong devotion to the underdog? His standing up to corporations? His career in public service? Risking his health and life to change things?
In my view, MLK would gladly work side-by-side with Bernie, because they so profoundly agreed on all issues. That's pretty good company, although many consider them trouble-makers.
33
@Jim Muncy Bernie Sanders is Nathan--not David. In other words, he is quite a good prophet. That is, he does a good job of reminding us where we are falling short, as a society. But that is quite different from being able to lead us in solving those problems. In my judgment, he would fail if given that responsibility.
9
I get what you are saying, but you re making a number of assumptionsthat hold up to careful scrutiny.
Populists = extremists. Populism is a view point that can have any of a number of parents. Heck even centrists can be populists as well. It's probably part of the basis that Sanders supporters are leaning on when they argue that they are the true moderates (?)
That decrying left and right populists places moderates in the preferred center. This in itself makes no sense. Centrism as a split the difference approach with populism = extremist. I'd argue that moderates have their own set of policies (some of which bring them closer to liberals). If populism comes into the equation it's because there isn't a guarantee that populism will lead to liberal policies in an of itself.
Billionaires are bad. Sanders has said on a number of occasions that billionaires shouldn't exist. That is an inherently radical statement that is more nihilistic than moderate or even liberal. Why single out people for their bank account and ignore how even they made those billions. So for example a person who made a billion inventing a new drug should not be lumped in with a billionaire who made his money stripping small businesses of their assets and firing all their employers.
I don't need to label Sanders anything. I'm just not interested in voting for him for a number of reasons: his wanting list of accomplishments, his narrow domestic focus, his inability to compromise when listening to ALL voters, not just his devoted base, his lack of plan for implementation (sorry, Occupy Wall Street was a failure and Bernie's mobilize the masses will be even more so), his foreign policy positions, his health, his temperament. There is nothing he's promising that other current candidates can't actual DELIVER on in some form that represents Democracy, not a "My Way or I'll Huff Off" Bernie-cracy. And please, those of you who feel the Bern, don't @ me. I am an independent thinker and don't need to be lectured, chided, or yelled at in hopes of what? Changing my mind? Bernie needs to work a lot harder to convince the large number of us Bern-undecideds if he wants to win.
2
Sanders had a role to play (opening the Democratic party to income inequality as an essential problem), but it is over. His railing and anger is not appealing or inspiring. And he is a one-note song. The constant harping on "billionaires" gets tedious. And what has Bernie really accomplished in terms of signature bills? Mike Bloomberg, on the other hand, boasts a hugely impressive record. Yes, he has made mistakes, like "stop and frisk", though it was racist in effect not intent--progressives, with their endless purity tests, fail to see this distinction). Give me the "billionaire" Bloomberg over the "millionaire" Sanders any day. Mike is so clearly better equipped to occupy the Oval Office. We need a calm, focused, accomplished hand on the rudder of our ship--a ship torpedoed by Trump and his minions. Bloomberg's lack of charm, his no-nonsense pragmatism is just what is needed after the ridiculous excess, both in style and substance, of the Trump era.
1
Bernie Sanders is the FDR of our time. All he is proposing would be embraced by both FDR and MLK.
Bernie's ideas, as the author says, are not radical. They are mainstream in the happiest countries on earth. Countries where people live longest, have strong social safety nets, and are less violent. Armed men do not roam their streets, and children do not hide in school shooting drills. Oh, the horrors!
The Democratic party expends resources on social identity politics that long forgot that most women are far more afraid of the trapdoor under their feet than they are concerned about the glass ceiling 50 stories above their heads.
Bernie addressed the concerns of those women and their families. I suspect every time they hear someone saying Bernie is "not a real Democrat" they get excited. They don't want "real" Democrats who can tell Camembert from chèvre but can't tell SNAP from Snapple.
Bernie is the real third way. His supporters know, because he tells them, that he cannot accomplish the programs he champions without a Democratic Congress and the strength of popular support. His "revolution" aims to end the Reagan one that has stifled us for forty years. Both sides of the aisle want him defeated. We know that so hit pieces are expected - and have no effect.
It is better to fight the good fight for what you want then to surrender to the status quo that is killing you.
8
Sanders is a socialist. Whether he's a populist or not is irrelevant. He has read "Das Kapital." Have any of us read it? That means he thinks he knows how history will turn out and that is in a utopia of no markets and no money, because we will all receive according to our needs from those according to their means. Without that fundamental ideological belief, Sanders would be content to join the Democratic Party and not just con millions of people by using that party to run for President. It means he would have no qualms about eliminating "capitalists," even if only as a last resort, to achieve socialist "equality." Capitalists are the exploiter in every socialist's worldview. It means he would have no qualms about using coercion to get his way and lock up or otherwise remove people from society if they should disagree with him. That is what Maduro and Chavez have done in Venezuela. It is what the Chinese have done to dissidents and are doing to the Uighurs of Xinjiang now. It is what Stalin did in Soviet Russia. You think benign old Sanders wouldn't, but no one actually knows what he's like yet. Trump is going to get about telling the country. And he's going tap into a sentiment in the country that Sanders' supporters chose to ignore or don't understand. Socialist candidates for President in 2016 got only 94,000 votes nationwide. That means that not even Sanders support voted socialist. The should thin about that.
@Haldor1890 Gaslighting and straw-men abound! Imagine doing a book report when your only references are Sparknotes and the Cato Institute.
This is a great column. Reading the statement "he attacks his critics as un-American," I am reminded of Bush-Cheney's "You're either with us or against us." Because Bush and Cheney were less overtly crude and boorish, the current Never Trumpers were perfectly satisfied with them. I suspect that Never Trumpers disparage Bernie as a radical left version of Trump because they intensely dislike the policies he proposes (he was a topic of concern at the recent Davos conference, the ultimate wellspring of elitism) and want an excuse to vote against him.
1
A centrist will not defeat Trump.
We need progressive change in this country that is in line with the changing world.
A moderate is a waste of precious time.
BERNIE 2020
11
Thank you for, at last, a piece that is thoughtful, well-argued and moderate. We need more of this, NYT, and less of the heavy-breathing, the sky-is-falling op-ed pieces that promote fear of anyone who dares to disagree with conventional middle the road political views.
6
Bernie is proposing common sense, moderate social welfare programs. He's not calling for the workers to rise up and take over the corporations. I wish he was a "socialist," but he's not. He's "demonizing" billionaires and corporations for not joining American society, which they can do by contributing their immense profits to the collective whole. It's the opposite of dividing us up. These universal programs are meant to bring the country together as opposed to the "centrists" who espouse the opposite of a middle ground by writing off 65 million people who voted for Trump as irredeemable racists who are not "really Americans."
6
Bernie's connections to Russia are rightly one way he is compared to Trump and these connections held against him. He has voted against sanctions and even honeymooned in communist Russia.
@Eve He visited the Soviet Union so, therefore, he must have ties to far-right Russia. Makes sense.
Biden is still running strongest among all the Democratic candidates against Trump in the battleground states, where the election will be decided, according to RealClearPolitics polling averages. https://tinyurl.com/vrmcrup
It is the swing voters in these states—independents, moderate Republicans, suburban women, some traditional lunch-pail Democrats—who will decide the Electoral College. https://tinyurl.com/syeyjhu
These swing voters have heard all the promises before and they are jaded. They see Sanders (and Warren) as offering pie-in-the-sky, when what they desperately need is pie-on-the table. The issue is one of credibility.
In 2018, the Democrats flipped 40 Republican House seats—no mean feat—by addressing this credibility gap. They focused on kitchen-table issues important to voters, while avoiding grandiose schemes and divisive cultural issues that turn voters off.
In 2020, Democrats ignore this lesson at their peril.
4
you call him a "socialist from Vermont" whose inspiration is
the "democratic capitalist" country Denmark. Your article
is one more article about Sanders that leaves me without
the slightest idea what he (or you) means by "socialism".
1
And while you agonize over the epic melodrama of Left vs. Right, don’t forget to studiously ignore the 21st Century solution to political polarization: An establishment outsider who redresses the underlying economic grievances that propelled Trump to the White House—without resorting to vindictive rhetoric. Whose 150+ innovative, data-based policies are endorsed by tech insiders like Elon Musk and world class economists like N. Gregory Mankiw. The first choice of independents, disaffected Trump voters, and even international onlookers—basically the leading candidate in every demographic, with the notable exception of Democrats.*
Pay no attention to Andrew Yang, "Not Left, Not Right, but Forward"—if you really want to roll the dice on giving Trump a 2nd term of office.
*A Data Scientists Take on Electability and the Democratic Candidates: https://medium.com/@benamy.yashar/a-data-scientists-take-on-electability-and-the-democratic-candidates-77426ea3f97
2
If populism is an “appeal to ordinary people who feel that their concerns are disregarded by established elite groups,” then Sanders and Trump are both populists.
The difference is that Sanders is sincere and Trump is – well Trump – a disingenuous con artist. His populism is merely a self-serving strategy. A man who has luxury residences purchased by not paying his bills and cheating working people out of tuition payments is no populist.
The two men define “elites” differently. For Trump, elite means liberals who support social programs and education, who resist the idea of a Christian theocracy, and who believe in diversity and oppose the idea that the only legitimate American values are ones inherited from white Western tradition.
For Sanders the elites are the oligarchs and their sycophantic politicians who, like vampires, feed on the blood and labor of working people. They preach free-market ideology as a secular religion in which the purpose of society is to serve the market, rather than the market serving society.
They are drug dealers who aim to keep Americans uneducated and sedated on the false hope of the free-market and American exceptionalism. They prey on the emotions of working people, convincing them that abstractions like meritocracy and individual freedom are religious virtues that will rescue them. These abstractions are more important than their desperate material circumstances.
Sanders’ populism is concerned with material reality.
4
Some see it possible to be right wing populist or left wing populist. Others insist populist is inherently right wing, by definition.
It depends on our definition of populism.
Is it only who the populist objects to -- the establishment in power and its status quo answers?
Or is it the new answer presented -- a right wing answer?
I think it has in the past been the reaction against comfortable elites that benefit themselves and abandon the needs of those who become populists.
In that format, we had left wing populists in the middle of our country in the years from Teddy Roosevelt until FDR, led by Grange Hall movements and the La Follette father and son.
3
Many in the punditry class are millionaires. So they naturally circle the wagons to protect the elites as it is in their own self interest. Bernie wants to upset their apple cart.
144
@Steve I'm more interested in policy than personal wealth. Bernie's a millionaire, too.
14
@Elizabeth
Policy includes how one treats the working class and the poor. Yes Bernie is a millionaire but that obviously has not influenced his thinking. I am a Yang supporter but will gladly vote for Bernie.
8
@Elizabeth Yes, because he wrote a best selling book in the last year or so that basically doubled his net worth. What's more, the man is nearly 80- he's had a very long time to make his money. Lots of regular, working people who are younger than him and who are not in the 1% have joint retirement assets around $1 million just so they can retire comfortably.
8
I have been waiting for this opinion piece. I was baffled when I heard that there were people who, in the 2016 election, supported Sanders in the primary and then Trump in the general. Seemed like they hadn't really been supporting Sanders for the right reasons. Now it seems that there are people who oppose Sanders because they think he's a leftist Trump. Both these categories of people are too caught up in superficial similarities between Trump and Sanders (which, in my view, begin and end with their popular appeal) and are not paying attention to their fundamentally different messages. But I must say, of all the complaints levelled against Sanders, the one I find most inexplicable is, "he's not a Democrat". How does that matter? Is the point of elections to elect a Democrat or Republican or is it to elect someone who you consider to be right for the country? I completely understand people who say that they will not vote for Sanders because they don't like his policies or because they prefer the policies of another candidate. That is their prerogative. But to be opposed to a candidate because he does not identity himself as a card carrying member of your party is yet another example of caring for party over country.
4
Bernie would be a populist if enough of the population was literate about the mechanisms of plutocracy in this country like dark money, lobbyists, super Pacs, and Citizens United to name a few. But because we're a nation that operates on mythological narratives informed by middle school notions of political theory and cable TV entertainment including Fox News, a billionaire demagogue reality TV host is a "populist" to Americans.
7
In 1993, Sanders joined Republicans and voted against the Brady Bill.
If the Sanders supporters who voted for Jill Stein or who abstained had voted for Hillary Clinton, she would have carried Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin in 2016. Trump would not have been elected.
Extremes meet.
8
@George Jochnowitz And how about the disaffected Conservatives who voted for Gary Johnson? They outnumber Stein voters over 2x1. Where in this paint-by-numbers view of where voters line up behind the 2 parties does that fit? If you take all of Stein's voters, and put them toward Clinton, and take half of Gary Johnson's voters, and put them toward Trump, Trump still wins. But of course, that takes some critical thinking, and it's much easier to just invent petty and intellectually dishonest ways to pile on Bernie and his supporters.
3
@George Jochnowitz
But Sanders voted for Obamacare on every occasion and voted against the wars consistently.
The question is: will you vote for Sanders? Otherwise, blaming (some) Sanders supporters for staying home or voting Stein in 2016 is just hypocrisy. I'm starting to wonder, given the strong opinions against Bernie on these pages.
2
Judging by many of the comments here, many of the "vote blue no matter who" centrist Dem voters are going to end up breaking their pledge if Bernie gets the nod.
6
@Vin They already proved in the last election that they would rather have a President Trump instead of President Sanders.
8
@Jim You are wrong. We would rather have had President Hillary Clinton, who had the majority of votes. Instead, those who threw away their votes on third party candidates and write-ins for bernie gave us the current electoral college president mess,
3
Refreshing to read a discussion of Sanders that is rational.
The author understands the problem: the wealthy elites like things just the way they are, so they seek to shepherd us to the "middle", the course of "moderation", effectively keeping us within the two-party corporate consensus.
Curiously, "moderates" as exemplified by Biden, Klobuchar, Buttegeig are rather lukewarm to the poll-proven widely popular policies espoused by Sanders, and to a lesser extent, Warren.
In a democracy, that should earn these "moderates" the title of "extremists".
Biden ridiculously believes that the Republicans will "work with him". You'd think that after eight years under Obama of witnessing Republican obstruction and intransigence, he would've learned.
We have, in Sanders, a candidate who will fulfill the broken promise of "hope and change" with policies that help working people.
It's time that the status quo establishment admit that they have failed most of the public, and get out of the way so democracy can happen.
12
An avowed Socialist cannot win in the most capitalist nation to ever occupy the earth.
I am a life-long Dem and I will never vote for him or Warren.
Just two more losing Dem strategies.
5
Says the man who has direct access to God.
And the Times tells me that “something is wrong.”
1
FDR won 4 times. Yep 4 times.
Bernie is not different than FDR.
Goodbye and good luck as that journalist if yore used to say.
Bernie Sanders is not the exact same creature as Donald Trump. But, that said, he's dangerous. Nominating him is the GOPs greatest fantasy (notice how Trump tweets in support of him) and will be almost certain to get Trump reelected. E.g., Sanders wrote rape porn in the 1970s (seriously, look it up). He didn't have a job til his 30s. He spent his honeymoon in Moscow. He has close to zero legislative achievements, and he doesn't play nicely with others. Most concerning, Sanders appears to have almost no tolerance for dissent from his diagnosis of our problems and/or his preferred solutions. He feeds off the same populist fervor that animates Trump, and like Donald, he's absolutely convinced of his own infallibility. If you don't think Bernie Sanders is dangerous, you haven't been paying attention.
5
The only things Sanders and Trump have in common is the proximities of their births. They're both older New Yorkers.
One promotes a winner take all philosophy and the other to share our wealth.
One lies constantly, the other rarely if ever.
One is an overt, exclusionary racist, the other has pushed for inclusion his entire life.
One is perhaps the greatest con man ever, the other is direct and succinct.
One changes talking points with each breath, the other has had basically the same inclusive, caring message for decades.
Only the aggressively ignorant or obscenely wealthy claim they are the same trope of political populists.
8
@James Siegel And the establishment, moderate, and punditry class takes everything you just wrote and says "Bernie and Trump supporters are the same!" - rinse and repeat. And then we wonder why people distrust the establishment and mainstream media.
Sanders is a threat to the power structure. His goal is to improve the lives of millions.
Like, you can't scramble eggs without breaking them.
Millions who'd like their lives improved don't see any problem at all with shaking up the powers that be.
When you don't have $400 for an emergency expense--and 40% of Americans don't--the gripings of the Summers on the Cape crew are pretty meaningless.
Once upon a time, the US had thriving towns based on manufacturing. People owned their own homes, took vacations, had health insurance and a decent retirement.
That life was gutted and the money moved up. People were told to switch to service jobs, learn programming, move, wave goodbye to the old life out the rear window.
An ounce less greed and self-righteousness--an odious combination--would have served the power brokers well.
7
I get this. People are truly fed up. But what you go on to say could have been lifted verbatim from Trump's populist playbook, the one he used/uses to rouse his base (whom he betrays daily). So, is Sanders a populist? I think so.
1
"...those NeverTrumpers who are now saying they would vote only for the right kind of Democrat" Are really Trump supporters. They are just looking for cover for their next vote for Trump. They seem to want to take over the Democratic Party and turn it into the Republican party prior to the Republicans going off the rails, which started around 1980. I would say to them two things:
1. Saying you'll only vote for the "right" Democrat, is what will get Trump reelected and therefore you really don't have much against Trump, you actually like him and his policies
2. Saying you'll consider voting for a Democrat is nothing more than trying to give your self plausible deniability if Trump is reelected. You will just tell the Democratic party, who you do not support and do not belong to, that they didn't pick the "right" candidate.
It all basically sounds like NeverTrumpers are going to hold others hostage - we'll either reelect Trump or you need to give us the person we want and who cares what the members of the democratic party want
3
"...those NeverTrumpers who are now saying they would vote only for the right kind of Democrat" Are really Trump supporters. They are just looking for cover for their next vote for Trump. They seem to want to take over the Democratic Party and turn it into the Republican party prior to the Republicans going off the rails, which started around 1980. I would say to them two things:
1. Saying you'll only vote for the "right" Democrat, is what will get Trump reelected and therefore you really don't have much against Trump, you actually like him and his policies
2. Saying you'll consider voting for a Democrat is nothing more than trying to give your self plausible deniability if Trump is reelected. You will just tell the Democratic party, who you do not support and do not belong to, that they didn't pick the "right" candidate.
It all basically sounds like NeverTrumpers are going to hold others hostage - we'll either reelect Trump or you need to give us the person we want and who cares what the members of the democratic party want
1
"Stop Comparing Bernie to Trump. It’s Ridiculous.
The socialist from Vermont is not a threat to American democracy. The president is."
Stop Comparing Bernie to Trump. It’s Ridiculous.
The president is not a threat to American democracy. The senator from Vermont is.
2
@Grace
No, they both are.
He is a bit of a demagogue. Warren can get that way too.
3
@Professor Jan-Werner Muller, I agree with you that it's ridiculous to compare Sanders and Trump, but your claim that only right-wing autocrats claim to represent "the people" and punish everyone who disagrees is absurd.
4
"Right-wing populists, by contrast, insinuate that some people do not belong at all, or should be treated at best as second-class citizens."
Trump, who's entire government is one long campaign, demonizes Democrats by attacking their patriotism, their values, their very essence.
He makes broad sweeping lies, most of which aren't countered by the Democratic party, much to my dismay. He seeks to convince his base (which is easy, given their cult-like adoration) that liberals are evil, out to get him (and by extension them), and that they break the law to do it.
Code words include: "open borders," "take away your [guns, freedom, whatever] and "they" as if he was clairvoyant.
Trump thrives by creating sides and insisting only one side is for America. this is dangerous, divisive, and despotic---a demagogue with the power he has presents an ongoing danger to our republic.
Sanders and Trump are unequally distasteful, but both are distasteful, nonetheless.
Both are egomaniacs more concerned with their personal success than with the success of the whole. Sanders's failure to immediately and convincingly support Clinton in 2016 is old news but very telling. He helpful deliver Trump.
Sanders supporters are too often mean, judgemental and divisive. Any similarity to Trump's base?
Obviously, the two candidates have very different messages. But their methods have many similarities.
4
Do some of your remember the comments here in the NYT during the 2016 election year vs now? Much more support for Bernie now. I think he's going to be our next president!
Let's keep up this enthusiasm, spread the word about Bernie and vote! Vote Blue!
Sanders/Warren 2020.
3
He is a populist.
He makes irresponsible promises that appeal to the majority of people. Everything can be free if you vote for a populist like him.
And Trump does not have a monopoly on appeals to people’s dark side. Many people on the left label those that disagree with them as fascist, racist, bigoted, etc. It’s not always true, and it’s not necessarily better than “un-American”.
8
@Yuriy "Irresponsible" is promising to uphold the status quo, where 4 million American children are homeless tonight; 40% of Americans couldn't afford a $400 hospital bill if they got one today; depression, drug abuse, suicide, and mass shootings are going up; life expectancy is going down, etc., I could keep going, but won't.
It's irresponsible to not try and tackle these issues.
2
Thank you for this article. No further comment, just thank you.
3
I am a moderate/left Dem, age 69.
I think the best way to beat Trump is to win back the Middle that HRC threw away in 2016 by insulting working people and ignoring the rust belt. That’s where the most votes are up for grabs. That’s where we can take the most votes away from Trump.
But if Bernie is the nominee, he gets my vote. Same goes for any of the Dem candidates. I had a debate with another old codger like myself yesterday. Another Dem. He just would refuse to vote for the “Socialist Sanders.” He’d stay home or vote third party.
He would, I guess, prefer Trump over Sanders. That horrified me. With some of the Dem candidates, I’d have to hold my nose to vote for them in November. But I’d do it eagerly just to rid us of the festering excuse for a human being now in the WH. Sanders ain’t my fave. But his most extreme ideas would not make it into law.
I’d like to see Sherrod Brown get drafted at a deadlocked convention. The pragmatic progressive. He’d win back the rust belt. He’d govern wisely.
But even though that won’t happen, I won’t sulk or stay home or vote third party. I’ll act like an adult and go out and vote Dem, to end Trump.
3
Our number one priority is to send Trump packing.
We need someone who can win a national election.
Sanders, a man who not only describes himself as a Socialist, who refuses to join the Dem party but wants us to nominate him as a Dem, who calls for a Revolution, who honeymooned in the USSR, who twice (1980.1984) was an elector in Vt. for Andrew Pulley, the presidential candidate of the Trotskyites ( Socialist Worker's Party) cannot win the red states and certainly not a national election.
Mike Bloomberg is the person who is best prepared to put Trump behind us.
He has built a national political machine designed to do just that. With over 1,000 experts in 40 states he is bringing the message of what a real leader looks like to America.
His latest salvo is to focus ads on impeaching Trump.
All of this on his own dime.
A true patriot.
6
Trump is a “populist” in the sense that he represents the worst impulses in any population.
3
One thing Muller is correct about: Bernie is ridiculous.
4
He said that?
1
Talk to actual people from Socialist countries such as Cuba or North Korea, and you will find that socialism is indeed a threat. Most Americans do my want breadlines and gulags. We'll take Trump's phone call with Ukraine any day of the week.
1
@CJT
(I assume your post sounds better in the original Russian)
Or... walk across the bridge and talk to people from Socialist Canada and you'll find they view Americanism as a threat.
Or talk to people from Finland, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Germany, Netherlands, Belgium or France (combined roughly 200 million) and you'll find out what these people (especially the Scandinavian countries) are some of the most happy people on the planet.
The media plays its part by continuing the "Bernie is surging" mantra. Please shut up because media, including the Times, is one reason we have Trump. Maybe Bernie was surging a couple of weeks ago, but not anymore, thank goodness.
3
@Eve Look again, he's overtaken Biden in every national poll, with independents, in battleground states, everywhere but South Carolina really. These are all recent numbers, from this week.
1
Finally an article in the NYT that expresses how many of us feel about Bernie! Thank you.
4
Thank You .. but honestly it is very simple .. Bernie Sanders is a good intelligent man who loves his wife. Trump has evil in is heart and only cares about himself. Unless you are blind, it is easy to see.
167
@Doctor Woo rich folk always feel persecuted. That is why they are greedy. Bottle fed.
@Doctor Woo
Who loves his wife?? What does that even mean? I am no supporter of Trump and will gladly vote for a Biden, Klobuchar or Buttigieg, but Sanders for all his "good" is a socialist who wants to burn down the house to fix the plumbing. He's not getting my vote.
4
@Doctor Woo.... "Bernie Sanders is a good intelligent man who loves his wife.".....True, but it is also true that there are lots of good intelligent men who love their wives who would not be good choices to be President.
5
Wow, yet another article/opinion piece telling us that Bernie is not the "safe" choice that the New York Times wants us to pick. Pipe down, say the elder liberal elites, and focus on the moderates...who don't exist anymore. Sure - let's put in Amy Klobuchar who has the appeal of an underdone piece of toast, and the poll numbers to support it. Insane.
5
Bernie has been as cock-sure about his values, without conceding they can be improved by others, as Trump. As Trump, he lacks administrative experience to run a government and his personal snobbery makes it unlikely he would find top managers to assist him. Yes, his values are antithetical to Trump, but there are reasons to fear that his presidency would have too many similarities.
5
bravo
1
Bernie is obviously a communist.
2
@leaningleft Bravo!
Can someone please tell me one significant accomplishment of Bernie Sanders in 40 years of politics? He votes “ no” on legislation that is better than status quo but imperfect (like NAFTA 2.0). That is a man who won’t be able to get anything done in DC. He is more interested in being “right” than accepting good productive policy. We live in the real world where Rs will have at least 50 seats in the Senate. Join me in the real world.
8
@David Gross
There are none. None. 40 years and his impact is largely on rhetoric and theory rather than actual legislation to help people.
2
@David Gross I suggest that if you honestly want to know you can actually review Bernie's record. It's there for anyone to see. I suspect though that you don't really want to know, you just want to dismiss him.
Bernie's entire platform is built on demagogic hatred of the wealthy. You take his same policies but strip out the demonization of the top couple income brackets and you basically have an older version of Elizabeth Warren. The thing Bernie has that she doesn't is a cult of personality, and that stems entirely from his consistently anti-capitalist rhetoric. You can't throw a stone at a Bernie rally without hitting at least a couple card carrying communists. The man himself may not be one, but his rhetoric is on-message for them, and he knows it, and that's why he employs it.
It's exactly the same kind of populist tactic employed by Trump, whose rhetoric was aimed at the racial and economic anxieties of the white middle class. And Trump, like Bernie, found a convenient enemy to direct these negative feelings toward. For Trump it was immigrants and minorities, for Bernie it's businesses and the rich. Take away the promises to punish these enemies from either one and their platform turns into a whole lot of nothing, indistinguishable from their party rivals.
5
For me, Sanders in this cycle, spells defeat in November. Democratic socialism will simply have to wait until a significant number of trump's "base" either awaken or die.
7
Thanks for the convoluted defense of a corrupt old politician who wants to take control of the wealth that belongs to the people who gave their time and tears to earn it. The difference between Sanders and Trump is not that they can be jammed into different categories set up by political "scientists". They both have imaginary societies floating in their minds, with villains (Bernie's billionaires, Trump's immigrants) and heroes (Bernie's Castro, Chavez and "democratic socialists", Trump's people who wear uniforms). Neither appreciates nor respects the sovereignty of the individuals who inhabit this nation; both see them as subjects in a kingdom.
9
@jrd I’ve seen nothing that indicates Bernie is corrupt. I personally may find him a scold, but why should the U.S. be the only industrialized nation without universal health care? Why should we have the cavernous separation between a CEO’s pay and the pay of those who work for him ( or her, but it’s still mostly him).
5
@jrd
Good one.
When a candidate divides the voters in half, and plays one against the other, he/she is serving neither side.
3
@jrd where is your evidence? And what makes you think that the centrists have a society any less imaginary in their minds? If the message of elite greed resonates with voters—if they are suffocated by their lack of proper health care, if they are drowning in college debt, if they work multiple meaningless jobs just to get by— and the solutions to the problem of that greed have truly worked elsewhere, then who are you to arbitrarily dismiss a candidate as "corrupt"?
Also, why on earth would you describe the money of the billionaire class as "fairly earned"? I personally don't think that's true, but I also don't think it matters. Even if that money is perfectly "fairly earned"—whatever that really means—what right does that give billionaires to dodge taxes, and what right does that give them to abuse workers whenever the Feds' backs are turned? The idea of "fairly earned" money is a convenient abstraction that is a threat to any healthy society. You are the problem.
Bernie is not actually surging in the polls. The author claims this, without providing any actual proof. Sanders had one good CNN poll, which may be an outlier. According to 538, Biden is still solidly in the lead when you average various polls (which is methodologically better than cherry-picking one good poll as evidence of a surge). If reporters and op-ed columnists want to claim that Sanders is "surging" they should provide some proof.
25
@Susan
100% correct. Sanders popularity and support are largely static over the entirety of his campaign, which is a fact that his supporters avoid at all costs.
13
@John
@John
Wow! 100% correct. That is full certainty. Are you sure there is not even an epsilon of error margin?
I am glad you are so certain. I guess the alien bots manipulated the CNN poll. Who knows, they are everywhere these days. Check your soup just in case :-)
2
I will vote for Sanders if he is the nominee. But what I find similar to Trump is his followers. Their way is the only way. No compromise. Cult-ish. Not healthy in pretty much the same way that Trump's base isn't healthy, although probably better informed.
25
Comparing Trump to anything is ridiculous; but also useful. Trump is the paradigm of a deeply flawed person with an unlikely success and following in politics. Comparing him to honest and able politicians serves to identify his failings; and comparing upstanding politicians to Trump serves to identify traits and trends in them which could be effective in appealing to Trump's base.
Trump has been compared to Washington and to Obama, with predictable conclusions. Sanders should not complain: he is in good company.
2
I’m Gen X and I remember Al Gore in the 90’s being the only person in a position of power seriously talking about climate change. I also remember Hillary Clinton’s Universal Healthcare plan while she was first lady.
The Democratic party has ALWAYS stood for human rights, universal healthcare, environmental protection and everything that liberal minded people have been concerned about.
I have witnessed twice now, green party candidates that took enough of the votes away from the democratic nominee giving us 2 of the worst republican presidents in history. First with Ralph Nader in 1999 then with Jill Stein in 2016. Both times we ended up with Republican presidents who, in their first terms, allowed 3000 people to die from the aftermath of hurricanes: Bush with the hurricane in New Orleans and Trump with the hurricane in Puerto Rico.
American citizens literally die from natural disasters when we have Republican presidents.
The divisiveness that is happening within the democratic party between leftists and so called centrists is ridiculous. Bernie is re-branding the same policies that democrats have been trying to achieve for decades and the reason we don’t have universal healthcare and a green new deal is because the right wing has been fighting against it along with democrat voters who don’t bother to show up for mid-term elections and ensure democrats win seats in Congress, or vote third party candidates because the nominee isn’t liberal enough.
22
@mo I see him as the standard-bearer for that old Democratic party platform instead as the profiteer of it. It should be obvious to anyone who's watching that Democrats have conceded much of their platform as they were besieged by laissez-faire Republicans and moderates. Medicare for All would never have become mainstream if Sanders didn't prove public support for it in 2016.
Of course I agree: any Democratic president is miles more humane than a Republican. But I think you're overlooking the underlying factors at play when you describe natural disasters or other crisis events. Sure, a Democratic centrist will allocate resources to stop people from dying. Maybe people who lost their homes and livelihoods will even be given a safety net. But we can't just be telling voters that they should be grateful Democrats saved their lives in the midst of a blatant threat. We have to be telling voters that we're here to protect everyone from investment banks, endless wars, and—this is probably the kicker— hurricanes and disasters caused by climate change. As long as we're playing centrist whack-a-mole with issues that arise in the nation, we're weak in conviction and vision. The nation can tell, and that's part of why we lose.
1
First let me say that Bernie Sanders is not my choice for the Democrats. I support Pete Buttigieg. I think that we need a moderate to re-unite Our Country. Bernie is ZERO threat to Democracy. His views are a bit on the radical side but his first priority, unlike Donald Trump, is to improve the lives of the people of Our Country.
13
Right and Left populists both claim to represent the "real people" against the Elites. But they have dramatically different definitions of who is Elite. To the Left the Elites are the rich and powerful, the 1% and even 0.1%, those who control and manipulate the system for the own gain. The Right has a very different concept of "Elite". To the Right it is the cultural elite, writers, entertainers, professors, who want to tell us how to live. This is the "don't ruin my lifestyle for climate change", no trans bathrooms, Religious freedom, you don't knee for the National Anthem crowd. In this (crazy) world view Donald Trump is Not Elite but AOC and Greta Thunberg are.
I'm not saying I believe this but I'm just saying this is where the Right/ Trumpists are coming from.
11
A pretty well-argued piece but I would like to make one request. Can we please put an end to people referencing countries like Denmark as models for programs that can be applied to the US? Denmark has about the same number of people as Colorado. And it's less ethnically diverse...than Colorado! And it's 85% smaller...than Colorado! So please, when your write an op-ed or when you propose health care plan in your campaign for President, don't mention Denmark. Of course it's less expensive to deliver health care to a population that is ethnically/genetically similar, living in a small area, eating the same diet, etc. This is not a fair comparison.
Again, good piece but let's stop benchmarking Denmark.
100
@SJG Good point to not rely too much on a single example case. However, there are lots of examples of countries with better-functioning health care systems than ours. And I think most agree that the reason American health care is so expensive (and not better) is that a lot of people are making a lot of money off of it.
32
Good point, let’s just say all of Scandinavia from now on. Scandinavia where I have lived as an expat for the last 12 years. A place where they have about the same GDP per capita as the US, but the US is over 200 million people. Which tells me the US could have the highest standard of living in the world by a massive margin.
In Scandinavia they treat their people as their most precious resource worthy of investment and support. Whereas in the US, they treat their people as disposable consumers.
I live in Norway for example, and in Norway, elections are publicly funded. Election cycles last about two weeks, and tv political ads are illegal.
In the US, the national election cycle now runs for nearly three years. The parties have been completely corrupted by campaign financing loopholes, dark money, SuperPacs and the promise of lucrative lobbying positions or seats on corporate boards after these crooks serve out their term in office. And the TV political ad industry is now a billion dollar industry.
Many candidates showed they could run last midterm election without taking the bribes and win.
Please join our movement in getting money out of politics.
67
@SJG What about Germany? Diverse population, strong unions, high minimum wages, universal healthcare and committed to fighting climate change.
Example: Porsche had a great year in 2018 and decided to give every German employee, worker and manager alike, a $10,000 bonus (https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/2019/company/porsche-employees-bonus-reward-highly-successful-2018-17280.html).
When the economy turns, Porsche unions will be ready to make sacrifices. It works both ways.
Unthinkable in America, where shareholders would choke and roll on the floor with laughter proposing something like that. If the economy turns, just fire them without benefits.
There really are more advanced societies than ours. I wish people would read more and travel to Europe. Of course, most of us barely have enough holidays to visit our folks once in a while.
62
As a lifelong registered Democrat, my problem is that Bernie is not a Democrat. He turned down the Democratic Party nomination for U.S. Senate in 2006, 2012, and 2018. He has no respect for the Democratic Party, and none at all for female candidates like Hilary and Warren. Warren has literally the same policies as Bernie, but is a team player as well. Instead of supporting her, he called her a liar on national TV. Thus, his version of truth is what he believes. In this regard Bernie is like Trump.
About Bernie supporters, if they were really about Bernie’s liberal values, then their second candidate should be Warren. Instead (even before this spat), they preferred Biden or Pete. In this regard they are like Trump supporters.
So you see, the comparison between Bernie and Trump makes total sense.
93
@jen
Well, I am in Independent, so, jen, I guess that I cannot ever vote for a Democrat - right?
Senator Sanders is more of a Democrat than most Democrats.
The Warren-Sanders media hype is just that. I am sure it was nothing more than a misunderstanding. Period.
And, I doubt that Sanders' voters have Biden as 2nd choice. That makes no sense. Senator Warren is the next best thing and after Sanders, I would like to see her as President.
46
@jen If Bernie becomes the candidate, the hygienic distance between him and the city centrists, the establishment that let them down, will prove to be key in winning back the support of workers.
Again, the question is if the Democrats today really are interested in winning back the support of workers.
With Trump being so horrible, they could probably get a narrow victory from the center in 2020.
I do think the only way for America to become politically normal again is for the Democratic party to move left, which will alienate the moderate Republicans in the Democratic Party today and force them to reshape the Republican party around people like Romney and Haley.
23
@jen
Don't worry Jen.
Their are roughly 150 million workers (and their families) that have suffered through 48+ years of declining expectations in an economy that has otherwise grown 150%. 90% of those gains flowing to the <1%.
(see bit.ly/EPI-study)
(The median wage has been flat for 48+years. Since some wages have gone up [health/tech] & some in good unions have floated [<7%] we know that the vast majority of workers have faced declining expectations for 48+years]. Before 1973 we had demand side bias policy bias which FDR gave us. After 1980 we've had supply side bias. Demand = wages, Supply = wage suppression. The <1% favor supply)
The issue is demand side econ policies vs supply side econ policies. Or FDR v Reagan.
Only 1 candidate is committed to demand side bias policies: Bernie Sanders. Others are against it or are suspect (as possibly being captive to the <1% - which is maybe why he has to stay independent). As a result everyone else says that Sanders is radical. In essence they are saying FDR was radical.
While you & a handful might be offended that Bernie is not Democratic enough for you, I can assure you the 150 million workers and their families that benefit from demand side policies won't mind one bit.
The upside is that your Democratic party will still get the credit for saving so many lives and their well being. It will be a new dawn for the Democratic party.
In which case, congratulations on selecting Bernie.
31
I simply don't understand you. Are you aware, that the costs p.c. of the public part of your health care system, Medicare, Medicaid, Veterans adm. and emergency room treatments are roughly equal to what other countries pays for single payer health care that covers all? If you count in the cost of tax deductions, the would be around 7.000 USD PC. On top of that you pay additional 4.000 USD p.c. for private insurance.
State financed health programs in the US already in 2015 costs around 5.700 USD p.c before tax deductions. No other country in the OECD except Schwitzerland spend more than 6.000 USD p.c. for a system, that covers all.
So the time is more than ripe for medicare for all.
On top of that companies placed in the US has a competitive disadvantage, because companies placed in the EU don't have to pay for healthcare for their employees.
12
@Mogens
Don't import your worldview into my own and assume it sells. It doesn't. Many more Americans support a strong public option rather than a public mandate that takes away choice. Choice is the bedrock of our democracy going back to 1776. Americans may want greater economic and healthcare protections, but we are not ready or interested in becoming Europeans. That Bernie Sanders only has the support of about 25% of Democrats, which is about 12.5% of the voting public. That's not a majority, a plurality or anything resembling a winning hand.
8
@John
With Medicare For All, you can go to any hospital or doctor in the country. That's as much choice as you're ever going to get.
1
@John I was taught that 1776 was about "no taxation without representation". No one was considering giving women, non land owning males or slaves a "choice". But I digress. The latest national poll, updated throughout the day in this very newspaper, has Sanders 52% and Trump 44%. https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/
National health care is not only a European social protection schema. The US is constantly compared to the OECD. Try looking at the statistics here and see where the USA, the wealthiest country stands to other member states (for an eye opener).
https://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=HEALTH_PROT
Lastly, a public option will only be the dumping ground on the most high cost patients and the poor. Costs are contained when there is a universal "risk pool".
Cheers.
1
Comparing the threat to democracy between Trump and Sanders is a very low bar. Any of the Democratic candidates are worlds better than Trump in any category you want to name, given "better" is for all the values decent people hold dear.
Being a liberal, my concern is to choose between Sanders and Warren. As no one has figured out who that mythologic middle America voter wants, my primary vote goes to my choice. That would be an honest vote in my name.
I found the NYT write up of their thought process in choosing Warren over Sanders as spokes person for the progressive Democrats exactly my thoughts. Sanders has much to be proud of, consistently decrying the "billionaire class." However, Warren was selected for her understanding of how government works or doesn't work for ordinary Americans and for her legislative accomplishments. I've been saying Sanders is a revolutionary while Warren is a fixer; one sees complete change as necessary, the other would begin with changing the parts of government that produced the "billionaire class".
And so Warren understood the value of a wealth tax as a start to economic equalization in addition to funding programs supportive of the middle class. Several months after Warren's wealth tax was announced, Sanders understood and took on Warren's economic advisers to work on his wealth tax. That's what I mean; Warren has the best plans.
9
noun
noun: populist; plural noun: populists
a person, especially a politician, who strives to appeal to ordinary people who feel that their concerns are disregarded by established elite groups.
"he ran as a populist on an anticorruption platform"
At first I didn't understand what Jan-Werner Muller was writing about so I went to the link so helpfully provided. Well no wonder. It's The Washington Examiner.
3
Read this versus the recent OpEd by Paul Krugman of a couple of days ago and tell yourself what is the difference between academic brilliance and fear of equality for all.
Bernie is a wonderful person who will help us put the nation in the right track like FDR did.
The Times should stop their attacks on the best person out there and follow reason into a Rawlsian society rather than an Orwellian.
Thank you for publishing this piece by Professor Muller.
49
@Blunt
Equality for all is a slogan that really means income redistribution. It's a fallacy that relies on assumptions, like consistent wealth production from the wealthy in high marginal tax areas, that have been disproven throughout history.
Take Sanders and Warren's hypothetical "wealth tax". The concept has failed time and time again, even in Europe, where democratic socialism is more prevalent. Why does it fail? Because of the law of incentives and basic math.
If the government takes 75 cents of every dollar I make over 100, then I have little incentive to maximize my production beyond that amount. In this way high marginal taxes drives a wedge between the social and private incentives to work.
Said another way, high marginal tax rates make it less worthwhile to supply labor on the formal labor market and more worthwhile to spend time on household work, black market activities and tax avoidance.
Now the math. If I have a billion dollars today and am suddenly taxed at said 75 cents on the dollar, then yes, for a time, I will contribute quite a lot to the coffers of the government. But I will not replenish that wealth. It will diminish and with it so will my contribution to the pool of money needed to support what would now be a very large state run social safety net. How does the Government make up that shortfall? By taxing less wealth people, until their money runs out and then again on down until everyone is exactly the same. Madness.
2
@John so... Explain why the United States had a 90% top-bracket wealth tax in the 1950s and nothing fell apart?
5
@John "Now the math" as you say:
"The world’s 2,153 billionaires have more wealth than the 4.6 billion people who make up 60 percent of the planet’s population, reveals a new report from Oxfam today ahead of the World Economic Forum (WEF) in Davos, Switzerland.
Global inequality is shockingly entrenched and vast and the number of billionaires has doubled in the last decade."
Supply side "voodoo" economics on a world scale and lack of global taxation accords is what has brought us to this point.
https://www.oxfam.org/en/press-releases/worlds-billionaires-have-more-wealth-46-billion-people
2
Mr. Trump is no Bernie Sanders for sure. But Sander's surge has more to do with the numbers that Warren and Sanders shared until recently. With Warren and Sanders having to share polling numbers in a near even split, it was only inevitable that sooner or later; a position, move or phrase would teeter the seesaw in one direction.
I believe that in the Warren/Sanders case, the polls of today reflect a backlash on Warren for the manner in which she handled the "a woman can't be elected president" portion of last week's debate. Does any sane person not think that Sanders pulled the leaver for Clinton in 2016?
Of course he did and if a Democratic woman becomes the nominee, he will do so again. I don't know about the conversation they had a few months ago that fed this media frenzy, I wasn't there. But I do know that by making this a talking point for the support of those that could easily back either candidate, the message is clear. Don't throw mud as the electorate has little patience for those that do.
Sander's recent rise in the polls mirrors Warren's recent slips. People have simply shifted weight from one foot to the other and for good reason. Anyone willing to vote for either of these two candidates as their first choice has no stomach for schoolyard skirmishes.
7
My biggest fear about Bernie is that he will choose someone many of us do not see as an intelligent replacement for him should he DIE! AS far as i know he has yet to publish his latest health reports and people comment to me that he will choose one of the younger minority staff working his campaign who will turn off those who will VOTE BLUE NO MATTER WHO! Is there someone among the other candidates he might choose? I will be looking at that component of the final nominee package AND how hard Bernie supports the Senatorial candidates who are Democrats in highly contested states like South Carolina, Georgia, Kentucky and others. It will not matter what you call any Democratic nominee if we continue with a GOP majority Senate or lose the HOUSE; SO Bernie and the others better look at those races too...
Sanders' use of the phrase "billionaire class" is quintessential populist demagoguery. But when you dig into his actual policy proposals it is clear that this is a code word that actually means "the upper 30-40%." His followers, as evidenced by remarks in the comments sections of this paper and many other places, understand this. It seems most have internalized the idea that mere participation in a market economy is inherently evil. Further, as in all left wing populist revolutions, these participants need to be shamed, made to suffer, and their mobility eliminated. Truly scary to see this happening in the U.S.
6
@TMS What is truly scary is the economic polarization which has occurred since the 1970s. Sanders would point out that there is nothing wrong with a market economy, provided it distributes its benefits in some equitable proportion. The shrinking middle class indicates that it does not.
6
@TMS
"Sanders' use of the phrase "billionaire class" is quintessential populist demagoguery. But when you dig into his actual policy proposals it is clear that this is a code word that actually means "the upper 30-40%.""
I don't find the rhetoric appealing, but it's not as though Bernie (or anybody else for that matter) is calling for the *elimination* of this class, however defined, or any sort of repression ("... as in all left wing populist revolutions...). Just a readjustment of the tax structure, perhaps to Clinton or Reagan era levels.
It's not as though his (an a few others') call for a supposed revolution would actually be a revolution, either. Just some reforms.
Leaving aside any criticism of the Bernie Bros, since I don't actually know any, let's note that people and organizations that claim to be socialist or communist all reject him as a sellout or a fraud for calling himself a socialist when they don't consider him to be one.
Full disclosure: I gave him $100 in 2016, which must have made me a "big supporter", but nothing this year. I'll only vote for him if he wins the Democratic nomination. If any Bernie Bros are reading this comment, please note: I'd vote for a ham sandwich if it ran against Trump and recommend that others do the same.
@GPS ,
Actually, no. One of Sanders' signal proposals is to tax equities transactions. He claims it is by a "tiny" amount, but in the real world it is enormous. The imposition of such a tax would shut down brokerages, hedge funds, money managers of all stripes, and private traders large and small, overnight. He knows this, his base knows this, but that's OK, because, hey, Wall Street is evil and must be brought to its knees.
While we are changing the nature of the word "populist" lets remove the negative connotations from words like "compromise"and "consensus." Let's reinvigorate words like "negotiate" and "diplomacy" and understand those two are not only done with foreign powers, but also within our own families and relationships so that maybe not all the people are happy all the time, but a majority of people are happy more of the time.
These days if an elected official "negotiates" a "compromise" to reach "consensus" we label them weak, betrayers, and not loyal to the cause, what ever cause that might be.
Right now, to my mind, there is no terrible Democratic candidate running for office. All are talented individuals. And there is no one candidate that will bring a complete reversal of our current situation, due to the complex make up of the two branches of our government and some of the damage that has already been done.
Let's all do less talking and get out there and do.
Let's redefine what words we use and chose a president not on what the candidates promise but on their character and general policies.
9
@mouseone
Progressive Populist would be most accurate.
It isn't just the right wing populists who tend toward authoritarianism. The current supposedly liberal orthodoxy is trending this way as well. New Yorkers can now be fined a quarter of a million dollars for using the wrong pronoun. Supposedly liberal to centrist Democrats, such as Bill De Blasio and Democratic members of Congress, are promoting political orthodoxies that are attacks on free speech and threaten to gut gains by women in areas such as athletics. Not liberal, not progressive. I see as much authoritarianism in the Democratic Party as I do in Trump, maybe more so. I support Bernie Sanders because he isn't part of the mainstream Democratic Party. That Party has morphed into something that's unrecognizable to people my age.
11
@Anne
"New Yorkers can now be fined a quarter of a million dollars for using the wrong pronoun."
Anne, would you please cite some sources?
Personally, I'd like to impose fines on people who write "That's an offense to We the People" or "Her and me, we went to lunch".
We lived in Europe for a long time. The ideas Bernie is advocating is quite moderate for democrats in those countries and quite normal for any developed democratic country . What he says makes perfect sense for affordable Healthcare and College Education and in-line with in any decent developed country. Some Americans are having difficulty in understanding that healthcare and education for ALL are basic human rights in a democratic country and do not contradict with capitalism.
31
@HA
Exactly. Bernie's running a campaign as if we live in Sweden, rather than America. No offense, but I don't care a whit what Sweden or Denmark or France or any other country does or has or guarantees to it's citizens. What you argue as "decency" and "quite normal" are really just an attempt to claim the moral high ground. Well, you can claim it, but you don't own it and given that 75% of Democrats don't support Sanders, I'd say that many people would agree with me on that.
4
Primary will show how many people agree with you. You may agree or disagree with him, but he gives as a choice that we didn't have before with the moderate Dems
4
John, when you say you don't care what other countries are doing or what their people have, you are really just displaying willful ignorance. I should think you would like to lift your head and look around once in awhile and see how many people in developed countries have it much much better than Americans do. All Sanders is trying to do is improve the lives of the vast majority of Americans. Please tell me what is wrong with that?
2
Mr. Müller can say what he wants but Bernie Sanders remains a left-wing candidate and poses significant risks to the country. Left wing candidates’ attitude toward job creators is best encapsulated in the phrase “You didn’t build that”, which sums up a famous Elizabeth Warren speech pointing out that business owners benefit from taxpayer funded infrastructure.
But we all benefit from good roads and schools. Entrepreneurs take those same roads and educated work force and mold them into something which didn’t previously exist.
The prospect of anti-investor measures under Sanders easily could drive capital abroad, or to unproductive assets like gold - away from the risk-taking which creates jobs and national wealth.
Trump may not have achieved his ultimate foreign policy goals with China, Russia, Iran and North Korea, but at least each of those countries is uncertain how far to go with him in power. Keeping totalitarian countries at bay is no mean feat. Would these countries fear Bernie?
What would rule of law look like under a Bernie Sanders or an Elizabeth Warren ?
If we appoint judges whose judicial philosophy is to “do the right thing”, like routinely ruling against the corporations Bernie dislikes, democracy as we’ve known it is done.
Be careful what you wish for. If Bernie Sanders as President actually were to follow up on his policy pronouncements and political leanings, the downsides could make Trump look like a philosopher-king.
7
@HurryHarry You know what will "really drive away investors" from the country?
If we keep going down the road we're going, and the 4 million homeless kids that the last 2 decades have produced turns into 8 million; and our national health (drug addiction, life expectancy, mental health issues) continue to deteriorate at a very fast clip; and the desperate homeless people conservatives and rich urban liberals can't stand to see start to actually turn to violence; and our water quality, air quality, and the quality of the foods we eat continue to plummet (exacerbating more of the aforementioned health issues); and the millennials stuck in mountains of college debt, who are now reaching 35-40 years old with nothing to their name, decide one day to just... not pay.... etc.
All of these issues I've just mentioned are being catalyzed and profited off of by what amounts to a very small handful of companies.
Once all of these things reach a head, you'll see the wealthy "job creators," as you refer to them, leave this country in droves. Progressives are simply proposing a way to avoid this inevitable collapse. If you want to see what crazy looks like, just keep up the status quo and wait 5-10 years. Movies like The Joker, The Purge, and all of the things we read about in class revolutions of the past in our world history classes will become reality in our country's streets. The "pragmatic" thing would be to avoid that, thank you very much.
10
@Marc - let me suggest that a Sanders economy would produce a whole lot more homeless kids than we have now. And exactly why do you dispute the term "job creators" (not all of whom are wealthy)? Don't the entrepreneurs ridiculed by the likes of Elizabeth Warren create jobs?
@HurryHarry : What do you mean, "ridiculing entrepreneurs"? Her argument was that these successful job creator/entrepreneurs benefit from publicly funded (we the taxpayers) projects such as roads, police, schools and so on. Without these, their success would not be possible.
In response to the popularized talk of how Bernie's supporters are so angry and inflexible, please note in the positive comments (and in my conversations with fellow supporters) :
a consistent appeal of compassion for the poor and despairing; and; a hopeful conviction that given the chance and the investment, we could turn toward the crucial tasks of responding boldly and transformationally to the Climate Crisis, and the many other problems that rampant profiteering has wrought.
If there is an uncomfortable amount of impassioned delivery in the message, perhaps that is a matter of righteous outrage.
For that matter, I cannot see how continuing to allow the ecosystem to be defiled and destroyed, or instead focus on rehabilitation and sustainability, is a decision that calls for "compromise."
21
@Waabananang I've learned this year that the irrational people during times like these are the ones who think the status quo just needs a couple tweaks. Whoever can look down the barrel of the current gun, and see: immigrant kids separated from their parents and put in torturous conditions funded by our tax dollars; declining life expectancy; rising suicide rates, mass shootings, drug addiction, anxiety; environmental standards scrapped en masse for a 1% bump in some political donors' stocks; our teachers struggling to survive, taking on 2-3 jobs, paying for school supplies for their kids out of pocket, etc...
Whoever can look at all of what this country has become in the last 3+ decades, and go *yawn*, and then maintain an opinion that the handful of people trying to tackle these issues most earnestly are the "scary" ones, they are the irrational ones. They are the people we all wondered about in the history books when we asked how certain evils could pervade the societies of fallen empires of the past.
2
Bernie Sanders is not a threat to democracy. But if you look at college campuses you can see better how far things have moved left and the potential threat to democracy from the left. There is a lot of antisemitism on college campuses by leftists. It is hard to look at the left on campus and say there is absolutely no danger to democracy. On many campuses right wing speakers have been unable to speak because of actions on the left. That is not democracy. Colleges should be a place where all types of views are allowed to heard as long as that can take place peacefully. Whether or not this is populism on the left it is concerning and may enter mainstream politics the way extreme views on the right have now entered mainstream politics and are beginning to turn the US into an authoritarian state.
8
I have never called millionaire Bernie Sanders a populist,but I have no problem calling Bernie a tax and spend socialist and predicting the strong American economy and the low unemployment does NOT need Bernie Sanders to wreck it.
7
Here is another gem from our sage Girish Guru Kotwal :-)
1
Later Girish, later.
Millionaire Bernie Sanders indeed!
1
“We may have a democracy or we may have great wealth concentrated in the hands of the few, but we cannot have both.” Supreme Court Justice Louis D. Brandeis
Justice Brandeis made this as clear as it can be made.
47
"Populist" comes from the Latin, "populus", ie, 'the people'. The Preamble to our Constitution begins, "We the People . . . " Our Constitution is a populist document.
But over time "populist" gradually acquired a negative connotation, peasants with pitchforks scaling the castle ramparts, that sort of thing. Anarchy. And if you, like our elites, live inside guard-gated castle walls, I suppose you might see the people outside as a threat, too.
What I don't understand is how the rest of us came to fear ourselves. How have they convinced us to fear each other?
14
@Charles Tiege The Republican party has always depended on The Boogyman to create fear, which in turn creates anger and violence and defensive right wing voters.
2
@Charles Tiege A little money in people's hands in the 80s and 90s changed everything. As a society, we all forgot where we came from. We forgot being raised in public libraries as kids; we forgot how public schools used to be pretty good; we forgot how public colleges were a viable option (and were FREE); we forgot our parents and grandparents, who worked with their hands, who were lifted from poverty and immigration thanks to union jobs and federal investment in infrastructure and society...
Some people made money off the dotcom boom 25 years ago, and it jump started a whole new way of looking at society: from something we're all in together, to something that is simply a means to an end to a better stock portfolio.
The rising rates of child homeless, drug dependency, mass shootings, general nationwide depression/anxiety, and a whole bevy of society-killing ills no longer matters to the average American. Tell them their 401k went up, and "it's all worth it!"
But what 2008 showed is, the vast majority of Americans are one recession away from being homeless. We delivered the mandate to Obama to make sweeping changes to the economic policies of this country, but he settled in, was neutered by the establishment, and all of these issues have persisted, only to be taken advantage of and exploited by bad actors like Trump, a textbook fascist, who only finds success by telling Americans all the problems they feel are "the others'" fault. That's why we're here.
1
@mary bardmess
Boogeymen? Every proposal Bernie makes starts with a boogeyman. It's the insurance companies fault there are uninsured. It's big pharmas greed that medicines cost so much. NAFTA was only done to increase the profits of multinational corporations (said at the last debate). And every solution involves the government taking over.
Every problem is exaggerated beyond recognition. There are 20 million uninsured Americans, not 87 million (said at last debate). How could NAFTA have cost us 10 million jobs when unemployment is at its lowest since WWII?
The most hypocritical boogeyman is "housing speculators". Bernie owns 3 houses.
Let's not call him a populist, a socialist, a progressive or a Democrat or apply any label to him. Let's just compare his ideas and proposals with those of the other candidates.
36
Those terrible far left Democrats!
They want universal healthcare like all the other first world countries.
They want to continue public education with two years of trade school or community college.
We are the richest industrial country on the planet GDP / capita. But we have poverty those other countries don't and the highest incarceration rate in the world.
Those terrible liberals want to protect the air and water and stop global warming.
They want to give women birth control so they don't have unwanted pregnancies and don't have to consider having an abortion.
Shades of Karl Marx!
We pay around $11,000 per capita for healthcare compared to the $5,500 the other first world countries pay.
They get universal coverage and we have parts of the US with infant mortality rates of a second world country. Seriously, look it up.
With the savings to healthcare, we could pay for the additional two years of education.
And maybe that would decrease poverty and crime. Then we would get more people working and paying taxes instead of paying for welfare and prison.
I can't believe how far left these new Democrats want to take us.
What would the Founding Fathers be saying today?
In the meantime, the 2017 Republican tax bill just increased the deficit.
Again.
The deficit is increasing from $600 Billion to $1 Trillion.
To be paid for by ourselves, our children, and grandchildren. Every Republican senator voted for it. Not one Democratic Senator voted for it.
91
@Independent Bravo on this comment.
2
@Independent Bravo!
2
Bernie himself may not be radical or extreme, but it is not unreasonable to be concerned about many of those who surround him.
19
@Want2know .
..and what reasonable concern might we have of these who swarmed the Virginia capital on MLK day... armed to the teeth..to subvert the will of the electorate of that state who voted 83% to enact some small measures of gun control?
You worried about *them*?
1
@Want2know Are you talking about Bernie's Bros? I worry about the same thing. High level of misogamy. Don't worry though, Bernie will mansplain his way out it and you better shut up and listen.....
Everyone should read Martin Malia's "The Soviet Tragedy" if you want to wake up to the distinction that socialism means in politics. He calls it the "Cunning of Socialism," meaning that, it being a utopian ideology whose proponents are willing to use force to gain compliance, they have to promise all kinds of utopian results. Total equality, econcomic and political, will be at hand when their version of the End of History arrives. We will all willingly share with each other, even with people whose language we don't speak or whose religion we don't share. And of course, everyone wants that. Demagogues make a living telling us that. In fact, that's what one group supporting Sanders used as a basis to decide who to endorse. They tallied up what the candidates said about various topics. Barack Obama warned us that we should be careful about what we want because politicians will not hesitate to tell us what we want to hear. That is not a very good way to evaluate a candidate. Beware of their cunning.
8
@Haldor1890
Mr. Sanders is advocating for the same economic and social policies as Canada, France, and Denmark, etc. Hardly a dystopian vision.
He is not advocating for Soviet ideology.
But I imagine in the coming months that MASSIVE distinction will be conveniently overlooked by a lot of people.
16
@Haldor1890
You are tilting at a strawman. Sanders isn't promising utopia; he is promising improvement.
2
Professor Muller speaks of electoral politics in a democracy. The more important work of a democracy is done after elections in crafting policy. Here, democracy is not about "conflict" but about argument and the goal of the argument is to achieve a consensus. This requires, at the very least, that one is able to listen to the other side with care and respect, and to settle for what you can achieve at a given time rather than what you want. Ideologues who tend to demonize the other side have never achieved anything -- case in point, look at Bernie Sanders: great talk and nothing to show for it. But back to electoral politics: democracy demands that if one's candidate does not win one stays in the game and seeks to win another day. Sanders has spawned a cadre of "supporters" who - like spoiled brats - must have their way or would tear the place the down. This is anti-democratic. Sanders's rhetoric is unrelenting, single-minded, refusing to see nuance, and -- frankly -- simple-minded. You would hollow out this country and ruin it if you sent ALL billionaires packing. Therefore, I say that Bernie Sanders in his own way is a threat not just to the democratic party but to democracy itself. Ideologues cannot be democrats. They are authoritarian to the core.
11
Bernie isn't surging. His numbers were always there. They were unreported by the press and underestimated by pollsters (as they both did in 2016 with Trump, as well). I believe we will start to see more accurate poll numbers now that robo-call polls are becoming more popular. Though horrendous, they are safe. We have never known the numbers and composition of all those voters who do NOT respond to phone polls (pollsters rarely address this). Liberals will talk to educated city people conducting surveys about their politics, world views...themselves - ad nauseum. Struggling uneducated people in America (who tend to be socially conservative) have little motivation, time, energy or confidence in the entire enterprise to go on and on about themselves, which may includes chronic pain, a medicated state of mind, joblessness, dysfunctional relationships, considerable shame... you get the picture. No wonder we keep getting blindsided by Trump's success, Brexit and Boris Johnson's success, and even Bernie's support across the general population, i.e. mainly Independents and non-affiliated voters.
7
@carl bumba
Conservatives may not want to talk about themselves, but they sure manage to in the endless rounds of rural-diner interviews.
3
@carl bumba Robocall call polling will never get my opinion. I and others I know are refusing to answer the phone when we don’t recognize the phone number or when there is no caller ID. I’m not sure how that kind of polling is going to be more effective.
3
@April
Rural diner regulars are extremely talkative, but aren't representative of the people there. They are usually retired men of the town who were fairly prosperous, e.g. have way more acreage than the average. They are like male town elders who gossip for hours on end. (It's a Stammtisch.) The senior affluent women of town have their own social circles, usually involving the churches. The struggling people in the area, who are often not retired and close to town, are underrepresented voices. They can be inspired to voter, however - for a CHANGE candidate, like Trump, Obama or Bernie. They tend to be socially conservative (though are NOT racist monsters) and are 'all in' for a level economic playing field. Modern social changes have not been unkind to them and anyone without the privilege of a good education.
1
The Populist Party in the US was short-lived, but it was never like Trumpism. It was a truly grassroots movement that arose from local problems in rural areas and sought to remedy them within a very democratic framework. If one were to associate populism with anything, it would be an "excess of democracy," not the right wing.
The use of the term today is rooted in an aversion to using the term that everyone recoils from and few people truly understand: fascism. Trumpism is American fascism. Populists do not go around saying, "I alone can fix it"; l' etat ce mois; "I love the uneducated"; or punishing disloyalty to the leader.
So, educate yourselves on the difference between the terms, and use them correctly. Bernie Sanders is, however, wrong about how he labels himself--as a "democratic socialist." If he truly is, then he is a communist. If not, then he is a social democrat. Those, also, are terms that are misunderstood and misappropriated.
7
I don't mind the bulk of Sanders' policies. $15/hour min wage? Yes, please. Universal health care? Yes please. Taxing the billionaires? Oh yes, please. The problem, for me, is that Bernie inspires this strain of self-righteousness in his followers. There is this intense belief within his core group of supporters that there is no need to work with other, no need to compromise, that they can just will their reality into being. And if the country were made up entirely of his supporters that would be the case. But it's not. I'll vote for him if he's the nominee, gladly, but much of the time he comes across as a petulant child who is going to pout if he doesn't get his way. We don't need more of that.
29
@Jason Thanks for putting it in this way as I can easily say that I agree w/you. I saw Norman Thomas while a student here at UT LONG ago and he said much had been accomplished. But we've entered into a new period of plutocracy run amok and need the moral vigor of those who would support $15/hr, healthcare for all, but not universal if private insurance is available, and so much more. Socialism is not a dirty word as I try to remind Texans from the days of aggie coops, insurance (socialist), and much more that nenefits the populace. E Pluribus Unum. Jump in, the water's fine. Finland, Denmark, France and other countries have civilized systems in place for children, parents, others in their country. But Bernie's a scold as Jason writes and "we don't need more of that."
2
@Jason Bernie has done us a service by promoting the ideas of universal health care, public funded child care, free college, etc. He is a great advocate for those ideas, but he is unlikely to be able to accomplish those things as president. He is not talking about how he would bring the Congress along. The real question is not what we should do, but how we are going to get it done.
2
What should we do is exactly the question. If the person doesn't believe in the universal healthcare (as the moderate do), he will not fight for that and we will get the system as Obamacare that didn't stop the growth of healthcare cost. Setting the low bar doesn't make things done, they just repackage the old policies with some tweaks, that will be more expensive in long term.
Civics 101-ish
In Anglo-Saxon civics the main purpose of politics is to affect economics.
This is because the Common Law settled/settles the non-economic questions. It does so using systematic pragmatism/common sense. This is why CL prevailed over other competing systems in medieval England. It's the genius that made Anglo-Saxonism a global phenomenon.
As a result of CL A-S societies are patchwork quilts of ideologies: each embraced where they make the most sense & ignored where they don't. This is why A-S societies succeeded.
(Take abortion: long ago CL judges had to determine if a homicide occurred if a child was stillborn after a mother was battered. The law had to draw a line btwn conception & birth: the only inflection point was quickening [3 months]). So it drew the line there. We can re-litigate stuff in the present but it's already been figured out centuries ago.
This leaves mostly econ issues for politics to decide. Econ has only 2 dynamics: supply & demand. Govt policy can have a bias for 1 or the other.
This is why a 2 party system can function well in a large multifaceted country. CL solves cultural problems & Econ has only 2 dynamics. The real issue is: more supply or more demand?
Demand=wages. Supply side=Wage suppression. Prior to 1973 we had FDR's demand side bias. After 80 we had Reagan's supply side.
The real choice? Reagan or FDR?
The median wage has been flat for 48+ years & that's caused much suffering &dystopia for millions of families.
13
Followup:
So The real choice? Reagan or FDR?
FDR=Demand Side Bias Econ policy bias.
Reagan=supply side (wage suppression) bias.
Bernie=FDR, Everyone else=Reagan.
There are times when each is efficacious & each isn't. Between 1973-1981 demand side lost its efficacy: supply side saturation=stagflation. More demand policies didn't create more growth, just more inflation.
Since 1998 we've been in supply-side saturation. The big tell is investment bubbles. Supply saturation means investors cant get good ROI. When a small sector does create good ROI investers flood into it creating a bubble.
Supply side benefits the <1%. Demand side benefits everyone.
Supply is sustained by the <1% buying pols & media to fool voters. Ultimately it's just a delay as people need to eat.
So The real choice? Reagan or FDR?
Bernie=FDR, Everyone else=Reagan.
That's why "everyone else" considers Bernie a radical. - The economics themselves are very sound. Everyone else are easily bought by <1%.
The median wage has been flat for 48+ years. Since some workers wages have gone up (health/tech) & some in good unions have floated (7%) we know that the vast majority of workers have had to face 48+ years of declining expectations in an economy that has otherwise grown 150% (roughly 90% of that growth flowed to the <1%). (The median worker= 150 million people & their families). This in turn has caused much suffering/dystopia for millions of families, an opioid crisis, protofascism & Trump.
3
Populism is a vague term, now practically meaningless. It is far better to describe the behavior and the political speech which we are praising or condemning. William Jennings Bryan and the prairie populists were demanding that the playing field be made more equal for everyone and that the special interests which the manufacturing and financial sectors had carved out for themselves be either discarded or extended to the excluded class, in this case the farmers and the middle class. Trump is not a populist although he claims to be and has convinced his followers that he is one of them and speaks for them. His behavior though is typical Republican when it comes to laws passed as those laws increase the wealth of the people already wealthy. If Bernie were a populist, he would be more in the William Jennings Bryan mode.
6
Very well-said. Sanders advocates the most good for the most people, just like those highly successful Scandinavian social democracies, where political and social conflict, crime and unemployment, are minimal.
36
Thanks you, Prof. Miller, for injecting a little sense into this discussion.
21
Thank you for the insights into the inner workings of Bernie Sanders. What Bernie can never erase nor conceal for a prolonged period is an ego that rivals the current occupant. His campaign staff cannot hide his worst tendencies. He may try to deny his arrogant dismissal of the possibility of a woman in the White House, but his actions have demonstrated otherwise. Who of his potential supporters can forget Senator Sanders tantrum at the 2016 Democratic Convention? Bernie Sanders demonstrated, at that moment, his true regard for our country; self above country. He is not a selfless man, rather just another politician with popular ideas. No, Bernie will not be the next President. The corrosion of his lies are actively working on what was once his charismatic shell. In his scramble to claw to the top of his party, we are seeing the real Bernie, once and for all.
14
@Dejavu Duck : Let's be clear on the accusation Warren was making about Sanders. She claims he said that he didn't think a woman could beat Trump.
That's a very different accusation than "[dismissing] the possibility of a woman in the White House."
One is claiming that he made a comment about the American electorate's willingness to elect a female president. The other is making a comment about whether or not a woman belongs there.
I prefer Warren to Sanders, and I don't know who is speaking the truth in this he-said-she-said spat. But I do know that the accusation is about electorate's willingness to vote for a female president in 2020.
If it was a true comment, made behind closed doors to a friend, it is not an unreasonable concern. Clinton won the popular votes, but it's reasonable to wonder if a woman can win those "swing states" this year.
It's
12
@Rose
Good point that has been made virtually zero times in the press. If we are to believe that Bernie made the observation that Warren has alleged, we have to treat him very uncharitably if we want it to reflect poorly on him. More likely, if Bernie said this, he was making an observation about the current political climate and framing it in a way that would justify his running for President. (If I say that I don't think a basketball team from the East could win the NBA championship, it says nothing about whether I want one of them to win or whether I like the Knicks. It's just a reflection on my observation of the league and the competition at this point in time.) Whether Bernie made this comment or not tells us very little about him, his ideas or his campaign. However, the timing and way in which Warren's campaign made the allegation tells us a lot about her and her campaign. None of it good.
9
I am no fan of Bernie Sanders, mostly because of the Bros who he does not seem to have any interest in owning or tamping down, but I appreciate your argument.
7
@Lynne Shook : Since when is it a candidate's responsibility to "own" or "tamp down on" supporters?
The fact that some of his supporters are such Bros may be because they are potential swing voters who would otherwise support Trump. It's also possible that at least some of them are plants.
8
I agree with many of Bernie's ideas, but I can't bear having another angry man as President.
25
@RJ Angry man? He's passionate because Trump is in power. He's passionate because wages have been stagnant for 40 years. He's passionate because our climate is deteriorating and we are doing nothing about it. He's passionate that both Republicans and Democrats take money from pharmaceutical companies and pretend that doesn't affect their vote.
News flash: doing nothing, as recommended by status quo Joe, will only continue to allow things to get worse. Trump is a symptom of a greater problem.
36
@Zachary
Don’t bother explaining to these people that he is not angry.
I have noticed that when people cling to the notion of Bernie Bro’s despite abundant evidence to the contrary in both 2016 and now, it really says more about them than it does about people who support Bernie.
The real bullies are in the Clinton-Obama-establishment wing of the party. That is why Bernie and his people are popular.
Just let history be the judge—it won’t judge these Clintonites and the establishment people very nicely.
Meanwhile, canvass for Bernie!
19
@RJ Whoever's not angry during times like these is not paying attention. It's a cliche statement nowadays, but it's oh so true.
You are right. "Marxist" would be a better term. There is no such thing as a "Democratic Socialist" because there is no society on earth that has ever fit that bill. Every socialist experiment in history has eventually devolved into a dictatorship of some sort. When you put the means of production and distribution into the hands of the state the people in power eventually corrupt it to the point where thought, speech and voting are controlled by the state as well.
How about we stop calling Bernie a populist if he stops calling Scandinavian countries socialist democracies. They are as much examples of capitalist countries as the US, just with a tax structure that reflects the priorities of the people. They have private enterprises, billionaires and millionaires, and private health options.
Sanders would be dangerous if he actually had any support in Congress beyond The Squad, but his philosophy is that of a Marxist who thinks he knows better than the people, what is good for them.
11
@Evan Come on, take one actual look at Bernie's policies and read even a few pages of Marx and you'll realize this comparison is absurd. Bernie clearly believes in markets as the underlying driver of the economy, he just wants more taxation and regulation (like you said, with a tax structure that reflects the priorities of the people). I think your confusion comes from the fact that "democratic socialism" is typically applied to countries with fundamentally capitalist economies, like those of Scandinavia.
15
@Evan: there is no socialist democracy, you are right but for the wrong reason. European countries and foremost Scandinavia are social democracies. In socialism the state has control over production means, in social democracies the state tries to ensure that each citizen has equal access to basic services like education, health, transportation, housing to ensure a life in dignity. They regular a market economy with private property and capital in a way that levels the playing field. Your idea of a socialist democracy is pure fantasy.
5
@Oliver Herfort
America has always assisted and regulated the market, as Sweden does. That's what the Whig agenda of internal improvements was about. That's what Lincoln's Homestead, Land Grant College and trans-continental railroad acts were about. That's what the Progressive movement was about and the New Deal and Obamacare. They were enacted within the mainstream body politic. Sanders would have a rich tradition to adovcate within the American political traditon, but he choses socialism. Why is that? What does being a socialist mean? Why does he hide his socialism by running as a Democrat? Shouldn't we think about that? Trump etal are going to tell us and, since only 94,000 people nationwide voted for a socialist party in the 2016 election, I think we're going to lose if we nominate him. Only 94,000 votes means that not even his supporters voted for a socialist party! Think about that.
Populism is as American as apple pie. The assumption that we live in an "us vs. them" world helped inspire the U.S. Constitution ("We the people"). Its appeal has given rise to a wide assortment of political figures and movements, from William Jennings Bryan to George Wallace, the Know Nothings to Occupy Wall Street. Like all attempts at mass persuasion, it has the power for both good and bad. Trump and Sanders are each in their different ways effective populists. Both share an authoritarian, absolutist streak. Both play on the theme of unfairness. The question of which brand of populism is better for the country is one we've been wrestling with for nearly 250 years.
7
A scare word, “populism” takes on a deeper meaning, as Mr. Muller seems to understand, when seen in terms of how both the left and right appear to view what democracy entails. Both left and right seem to view democracy as something that needs to be “managed”—and that’s what government is all about—managing all of us.
I think both the left and the right misunderstand what democracy is all about and I suspect both would label me and those who think like me “populist”—that is, unmanageable.
2
Professor Muller, reflecting his European roots, is fundamentally mistaken in assuming that populism is inevitably 'rightwing', whether meaning socially conservative or economically pro-market. There can be socially progressive and economically leftwing populists as well, such as Podemos in Spain and Corbyn in the UK. It is not about 'socialism' per se but a style of intolerant rhetoric which is both anti-establishment and pro vox populi. The 'object' of the intolerance differs but it remains intolerance. Most populists are radicals but not all; and not all radicals are populists. Mudde and Karvallser said as much years ago by distinguishing what they termed 'inclusive' and 'exclusive' versions of populism. To claim that there is only one variety of 'rightwing' populism is to focus on major cases in Western Europe to the exclusion of populism in the rest of the world.
2
@Pippa Norris
" they termed 'inclusive' and 'exclusive' versions of populism."
At first sight the term inclusive populism looks as more open and liberal than exclusive populism. It should be stresses however, what is the meaning of it. Peron represented that kind of inclusive populism. He used to remark that Argentina under his rule was a pluralist country, "There are communists, socialists, liberals conservatives, etc….and all of them are Peronist." Because…. if they are not ,,,, and would rebuke the leader and especially his wife, they would be certainly in trouble. That is fine for me as well as for a great part of Argentinean people. Liberal democrats including socialists however, suffer that kind of " inclusiveness. It seems that the theoretical distinction works well for Q1 nonsense in Political Science, but not for real political life
Bernie Sanders is the Ralph Nader of 2020.
Starring in his recurring role from 2016, he has sat out to divide the Democratic Party willingly or unwillingly. From a distance it looks like an ego problem. I sincerely doubt the Senator from Vermont has or will ever campaign in Tennessee, Alabama, Georgia, Mississippi, Louisiana because he has no base of supporters in the South. That’s an ego problem, and it’s also political reality that Sanders has about as much chance of winning the presidency if nominated.
There are a lot of people in the South nation that are sick and tired of being ignored.
And you know who campaigns in the South; Donald J Trump.
11
@Bill Tyler
Bernie isn't running third party, so the Nader comparison is completely irrelevant. No Democrat would win in Mississippi, so why would they campaign there?
20
@Bill Tyler, if you bothered to search "Bernie Sanders + southern state x" you'd encounter at least one Sanders website for every southern state -- usually constructed by volunteers who wouldn't have made such an effort had they felt Sanders was deliberately ignoring them. More broadly, Sanders has been advocating a "50 state strategy" since at least 2016 because he feels a president should represent ALL its citizens, not just the coastal "elite." Having said this, the overwhelming reason that left-of-center candidates rarely visit the south is not a disdain for southerners, but rather the winner-take-all design of the electoral college. Complaining that Sanders "ignores" the south is just as silly as me complaining that Trump ignores the West Coast -- which he does. In both cases, its simply not cost-effective for either candidate to place vast resources into an area they're unlikely to win, gather millions of voters, yet ultimately fall short by say, 954 votes resulting in zero gains in the electoral college. If we can somehow change our election criteria such that the popular vote determines the President, it would radically alter how candidates spend their time: every vote would suddenly carry equal weight, be in from Maine, Maryland, or Mississippi.
2
@Bill Tyler One glaring difference I see is that Mr. Nader was never a mouthpiece for anyone, Bernie spent most of his time working for Gun Lobby, a leading cause of death for black youth.
Bernie Sanders vision for income redistribution in our country is completely flawed because it's premised on the idea that wealthy workers will sustain productivity and continue to generate gobs of wealth to be shared with the masses who simply receive more goods and services for simply waking up each morning.
Example: If the top effective tax rate is 75 percent, as in Sweden, a person who contributes 100 additional euros to the economy will only be allowed to keep 25 euros while 75 euros are appropriated by the government. The tax system thus drives a wedge between the social and private return to work. …High marginal tax rates disconnect the private and social returns to economic activity and thereby the invisible hand ceases to function.
For this reason, taxation causes distortions and is costly to society. High marginal tax rates make it less worthwhile to supply labor on the formal labor market and more worthwhile to spend time on household work, black market activities and tax avoidance.
6
The GOP are convinced that Bernie will be easy to beat in the general election, and have begun actively encouraging people to vote for him in the primary. This should be a concern to all of us. Defeating Trump is what's important. Also, Bernie is making promises he'll never be able to keep, unless the democrats win large majorities in both houses of congress. The GOP will never vote for free college or medicare for all. We had 8 years of obstruction when Obama was in office, and electing Bernie is guaranteed to galvanize them into more obstructionism, and would just give them momentum going into the 2024 election. It's easy to see the possibility that Bernie would only makes things worse, regardless of whether he wins or loses.
17
@Jfiddle It is a given that Republicans will obstruct any Democratic administration, regardless of who happens to win the election. Democrats must win the Senate as well as the House.
2
@Jfiddle: Oh, I see. Bernie's going to make things worse because the republicans will be obstructionist so therefore vote for a centrist who will compromise with republicans. That approach hasn't worked so well in the past (see Obama). Progressives (who are the democratic left) must stand up for what they believe in.
3
Thank you, Professor Müller.
"Populist" most often seems, via the practice encouraged by Frank Luntz among other conservative wordsmiths, a term used to denigrate any who might reveal or threaten the privileged status of our US corporate elite - including an established band of mainstream media - which consistently if covertly commands, controls, and benefits from a wide range of political governance, with no concern for the fate or ruination of lesser mortals, we mere voters.
"Populist" is always inflected with a corporate sneer intended to "manufacture consent" among a public to their own defeat by those who have long held - and plan to long maintain - their firm grip on all reins of power driving the so-called or once-admirable American experiment.
We'll leave it to others to research the frequency of NYTimes' linking of "populist" to Senator Bernie Sanders.
11
There a a few glaring problems with Bernie. He has been my representative for quite some time (I have in fact voted for him many times) but he has very little to show for it. No small thing. He is full of vision and grand gruff talk but will not compromise, does not work well with others, seems not to work that much period, and so, his track record is paltry. Worth paying attention to such facts vs. visions. There are better candidates, ones who can get much more done.
29
@Moosh As a lifelong Democrat and Democratic activist, I believe we should nominate a Democrat.
And I believe that with Sanders declaring his intent to tear the party down and his attacks on the Democratic candidates and fundraising, he should be tossed from the primary.
If he wants to be an independent and rail against Democrats, he can do it without my donation to the party.
23
@OrchardWriting
OrchardWriting;
Is it your contention that those individuals calling themselves "Democrat" are not allowed the right of free speech?
I do understand individuals of the far-left has proposed such.
Myself- I am an independent who values highly the rights guaranteed by the Constitution.
1
@OrchardWriting
When someone who isn't even a member of your party is so popular among members of your party, that indicates a flaw in your party, not a flaw in the candidate. He is popular precisely because he is NOT a Democrat. Blindly supporting a political party just because it's your team is one of the biggest mistakes voters in this country have been making for decades.
10
Sanders views are hardly radical and closest to what I enjoy now as a dual citizen living in Canada. But given how far the US has swung to the right, defeating Trump may mean going with a centralist Democrat. As disappointing as that may be to progressive Democrats, it is far better than the dangerous situation we are currently living with.
8
@science prof
Though there are differences between the two, Bernie shares one thing in common with Jeremy Corbyn--both have attracted some less than stellar advisers and supporters and both have very often been less than particular about who they associate with. It is a factor to consider.
1
@science prof Obama was the last person to run on a progressive message, and he won, broke records on voter turnout. Al Gore, John Kerry, Hillary Clinton, all centrist Democrats, all telling us about their pragmatic "reach across the aisle" plans; they all lost.
Bernie is showing he can generate the "Obama effect" and churn out record turnout and excitement, not just among leftists, but Independents as well, and that's who I think is best equipped to beat Trump.
Populist is not inherently anti-democratic. Trump and Sanders just have different populist platforms.
pop·u·list
/ˈpäpyələst/
noun
a person, especially a politician, who strives to appeal to ordinary people who feel that their concerns are disregarded by established elite groups.
"he ran as a populist on an anticorruption platform"
10
Sanders, and Warren, have no chance of winning the general election. As Warren has found out, even a growing majority of Democrats--as they learn the trade offs and politic insanity of mandated Medicare--do not like Sander's health proposal. Warren took ownership of it and is now paying the price.
Sanders will have ownership of it soon enough. But will it come in time to save us from his electoral suicide mission or after he's won the nomination and it becomes clear we are headed to electoral disaster.
No more noble losses for ideological purity. We win, we change this country.
12
@OrchardWriting remember it was said triumphed no chance? the so called pundits have no idea what is going on. Sanders could defeat trump.he will energize his base in a way no other dem does.
8
@A & R I believe we should first nominate a Democrat.
And no, he does not energize the base as I an and every other Democrat will not even consider voting for him in the primary.
He has reached his ceiling of support. He will not win and there is more than ample evidence to prove it.
7
@OrchardWriting
"We win, we change this country."
Tain't necessarily so. The Democratic party has gone too far right to accept change. Saunders isn't an ideologue. He's the same guy today as when he straightened out Burlington.
I wasn't there, but was right across the Champlain in NY and I was astounded at what he accomplished. Still am.
7
Mr Sanders is a classical social democratic politician. A bit more radical. Nothing more than that.
Yet the Trump bashing is exagerated and is a prove of liberal 'hysteria' On the one hand American institutions are strong. On the other hand Trump's populism is not as terrible as it sounds. Moreover, the right wing populist phenomenon is just doing one single thing, rebalancing the equation of liberal democracy. The liberal meritocracy pushed into the direction of globalization and liberal rights abandoning the democratic factor of the equation. Populism do the same in the other direction. Mr Muller is as non democratic as right wing populist are
4
There are 35 OECD countries. Bernie Sanders wanting the United States to provide national healthcare like the other 34 OECD countries is not "radical".
In some instances, being the exception to the rule is desired when such exceptionality is a good thing. In the case of healthcare, the United States pay roughly double the amount per capita as the other OECD countries, while covering fewer people (at least 9% uninsured and close to 30% underinsured), and having middling to bottom results (we rank 8th to 35th along numerous health measure such as life expectancy, infant mortality, etc.). The trifecta of bad - higher cost, fewer covered, worst aggregate results.....
24
@Cee His plan is radical even for the 34 other countries.
Do your homework and you will see that there are huge differences. Only the UK has a single payer system--the rest are a mix of public and private--and all of the 34 have made hard choices about taxes, burden sharing, what is and is not covered, and much, much more.
Sanders and Warren do none of that.
And Corbyn ran on a proposal for the UK's NHS, which would've brought it closer in size and scale to Sanders/Warren's proposal, and he lost badly.
In fact, when proposals in all the 34 countries are made to expand their systems to the size and scale of Sanders, they lose, badly. People in these countries understand the delicate balance and hard choices they must make to maintain their health care systems.
12
@OrchardWriting I live in Europe and you are no representing the truth about healthcare. It's true that none - including the UK - has NO aspects of both public and private, it's just that the proportions are hugely in favour of the public, and that people aren't dying for lack of insulin etc., as in the US. (Trump of course makes everything worse, also). A very disingenuous post, altogether.
4
@OrchardWriting
This is a lie. Single payer refers to the mechanism by which medical claims are paid, not to government ownership of medical institutions (as in the UK).
It sounds like you're the one who needs to do your homework.
I have lived in Vermont since the 1970s and am familiar with Bernie Sanders' political career for the past 40 years. People who compare him to Jeremy Corbyn are quite wrong. Since his days as mayor of Burlington, he has consistently listened to his constituents and reached out to political opponents in the interest of getting things done. As an independent in the Senate without party machinery to back him, he has worked with senators of both parties and achieved much by way of amendments, even though his name does not appear on any bills.
Unlike Trump, he is not trying to subvert the system, just to make it work the way it is supposed to "for the people".
47
@Augusta Umanski He has not one single accomplishment as a member of Congress. If he did, he'd be sure to have mentioned it by now.
1
It has been a long while since I have agreed with anything anyone from Princeton has said or written. But amen, Professor Mueller.
10
I know what you mean but Krugman is no longer there.
And there is the wonderful nonagenarian Arno Mayer who makes all historians everywhere proud still on the faculty.
And don’t forget the spirit of Albert Einstein. He is always there peeking at the world and wryly smiling.
1
I think Professor Muller - I can't find an umlaut key on my laptop! - has written a good essay but I wish commentators would stop referring to Trump, Orban et al. as "populists." Populism was an agrarian movement around the beginning of the 20th century that was aimed at curbing the railroads and other moneyed interests that had cheated small farmers and working people. "Populist", in today's parlance, means "nationalist." That it claims to be an anti-elitist movement, which is largely a subterfuge, should not be confused with early 20th century Populism.
11
@Tom Professor Mueller *literally* wrote the text books on populism. If you are curious about what the term means in an academic (not colloquial) sense, his book "What is Populism?" is intended for a general audience. It is easily read, and super interesting. :)
5
@Arthur Hjorth Hej Arthur - So what do you make pf all these casual comparisons to Denmark? I have to say i find them not only forced but lacking in any real knowledge of Danish history or the progression (and regression) over the decades to maintain the social welfare state along with a strong business community. Don't a lot of these attempts by American politicians to create a "Danish system" in the States seem unrealistic to you?
3
@Tom Arthur Hjorth is absolutely correct when he says that "What is Populism?" is easily read and super interesting. Inside that short book, he indeed discusses exactly the agrarian movement to which you refer.
2
Iowa is my home voting state. I'm there now volunteering for Sanders with a diverse group of people.
You've got to be tough as a boiled owl to run a family farm. Prices for the result of your labour fluctuate, your costs keep rising, your closest towns keep hollowing out.Factory farms have eaten up land and resources. Corporations have implemented "vertical integration" which means they bring their own seeds, feed, equipment and veterinarians.
People in rural Iowa are exhausted-- many have become impoverished, disaffected. They feel betrayed by politicians.Who can blame them?
"Caucus? I don't have time for that. You get Bernie nominated and I'll vote for him."
In Des Moines the people at the rallies are diverse, even in Iowa's supposed predominantly white (and older) demographic.
They are united on Bernie's message "Fight for someone you don't know." A leader who says "Not me, us." inspires them.
39
@Karen DeVito Thank you Karen, for volunteering for Bernie!
@PM I consider it an an honour to do this work. It is amazing to meet the impressive young people coming in carpools and busloads from all over the country to help out. It is inspiring to see their dedication and how much they know about domestic and international affairs.
With wild promises but no realistic plans on how things will be achieved and delivered, Bernie panders to his target audience. There may not be straight racism. But this IS populism.
Bernie reminds of Venezuelan Chavez as candidate in the late nineties, who promised to end corporate dominance in politics, abolish corruption, get good jobs and free healthcare for all, and erradicate poverty. But Chavez had no plan, just oil revenues which he treated as a piggy bank until monies dried up. When he failed, a new corruption class emerged who figured out how to steal from government. The population at large has suffered since.
Bernie, determined to disrupt the status quo, will at best make a lot of things go wrong before they get better (think disrupting 160 million people’s healthcare), and at worst things will become and stay wrong, with potential for a new breed of government corruption and mismanagement.
Bernie may have good intentions but has no realistic plans and lacks experience. I fear that America under Bernie will suffer.
And let’s not forget that Chavez, who died in 2013 leaving an impoverished Venezuela, had a net worth of $2 billion in foreign private banks at the time of his death.
12
Totally bogus argument.
@Gian Piero Messi This is really very funny. Here are people with straight face saying that Buttigieg (the mayor of a very small city) is a contender, and Bernie lacks experience? What kind of experience did Trump have? Thanks for one good laugh today!!!
Thank you for voicing my thoughts, Mr. Müller. The neo-liberal world order does indeed fear Bernie. But neo-liberalism is on its deathbed, because the bulk of humanity is losing out. And we need people like Bernie to address the profound income disparity that is the hallmark of our age, not the right-wing autocrats running much of the world now.
19
@Matt M The Bulk of humanity is losing out? There is currently less extreme poverty in the world than any other time in human history. There has never been a better time to be alive.
I went to hear Sanders speak not too long ago. I wanted to hear what he had to say minus the corporate media filter. He was thoughtful, detailed and proposed real policy remedies for the country I see failing all around me. They are proposals of a type that used to be the standard for the Democratic Party when they represented the working classes. Yet when I left I heard a summary of the speech on the local NPR station, (now dependent on political favor and corporate donations) and they summarized his positions as raising taxes and legalizing marijuana. My only reservation about Sanders is to what degree has he been able to persuade fellow legislators to support his proposals or policies.
22
@Maggie. Your ”only” reservation is a big one.
1
With a self built summer cabin in VT I have heard Bernie often on NPR up there. He has always said the same things. The need for public health, the need to narrow the economic inequality among Americans, the need to not go off willy nilly to war. Listening to him was always like a refresher course in American democracy. To do otherwise is to apply labels that have no meaning.
24
Thank you Professor Muller. Bernie Sanders will be our next President.
Rawls is joyful in his perch up there.
15
@Blunt
Impossible. Presidential elections are always about candidates ability to tack to the center to pick up centrist support to bolster their base on the right or left. Sanders cannot do this, ever. He'll never win over moderates, centrists or Independents. And getting 5 million more voters to turn out in already Blue states doesn't mean diddly for the Electoral College. If he's the candidate get ready for 4 more years of Trump.
11
@John would you care to provide some evidence for your claims? Sanders obviously polls quite strongly among independent voters. And, more to the point, he has far, far more appeal among many working class voters who went for Trump last time around because they despise the policies of “centrism” that you insist upon. But I understand where you are coming from. After all, the “Centrist” paper that these comments are posted in has been trumpeting the same line for six year. And yet, the “centrist” candidate got crushed by Sanders all across the country, in many states that Trump won.
Elect a “centrist” this time around, and you will certainly get more of the same.
8
@Maggie That moderate Dems still continue to force-feed us this reading of the current political landscape is troubling.
Obama ran on a progressive message, he generated limitless excitement and rode that to records on voter turnout. What his policies were that followed were more moderate, and 8 years later, enter: Trump.
Al Gore, John Kerry, Hillary Clinton, they all told us about their moderate "reach across the aisle" plans, and they all lost.
Bernie is polling better than any of the moderates: with Independents, in battleground states, in states Hillary lost that Obama won.
How can moderates keep a straight face and tell us not to believe all the evidence of our eyes and ears? It's almost Trumpian hubris and disinformation to continue to pound this losing strategy into our heads on the basis that "it's a winner," when just 3 years ago, it was not a winner.
Spectacular article. In relatively few words, this piece manages to capture a subtle idea that I think many Bernie supporters feel intuitively, but struggle to express.
That said, I have read the last sentence of this article about ten times now and I still struggle to understand the syntax and intended meaning.
16
@Theo Gifford
"Mr. Trump does pose such a threat and all those NeverTrumpers who are now saying they would vote only for the right kind of Democrat better remember that [Trump does pose such a threat] no less than should liberals who equate democracy with centrist consensus."
1
@Theo Gifford
Agreed! Spectacular article and confusing syntax. As an English teacher I think there is a missing comma. I think this would clarify the message: ....should remember that, no less than...."
I take it as a call to action to both groups referenced to support Bernie.
1
@Theo Gifford This is what I made of it:
Mr. Trump does pose such a threat and all those NeverTrumpers who are now saying they would vote only for the right kind of Democrat better remember that no less than should liberals who equate democracy with centrist consensus.
->
Mr. Trump does pose such a threat, and all those NeverTrumpers who are now saying they would vote only for the right kind of Democrat better remember that, and so should liberals who equate democracy with centrist consensus.
1
Sanders is certainly not a populist in the modern sense. He is, however, a throwback to the early part of the last century, a kind of John Reed figure, fully engaged and given to the idea of a socialist rebellion to solve all the problems of the country and the world. He is an old Red and like John Reed will find himself and socialist followers disillusioned and disappointed.
9
@bellicose
Those are more criminal GOP talking points. No thank you
So don't call him populist. But that doesn't mean he's a good candidate or even a mediocre one. Still waiting for the specifics regarding his positions or proposals, but certainly hear him rail against a "them" as his only theme. He also wants all the benefits of the Democratic Party without joining it. And for a party that presents itself as diverse, that he's among the top 3 is as disappointing as it is infuriating.
20
Optics and presentation is everything in running a successful campaign. It will not matter in the least how authentic and caring Bernie is. The Reps will twist and misrepresent until they scare enough voters to reject him. Do we want to get rid of the current disaster in the WH? Do we want to win? Doesn’t sound like it to me. I believe Bernie but the electorate won’t.
7
They will believe him. Do not worry. Sometimes the truth prevails. Against all odds it seems these days.
1
Maybe it is time to stop labeling all Politicians. Or if you are going to label make it "humane" or "not humane", regarding their policy stances. It is the Pundits who paint the Candidates with a label. Anger or passionate. See the difference in the word? Cannot you be passionate and not angry?
ow can anyone put the name Trump in the same sentence with Sanders. One is not humane and that would be Tump.
8
I would think that someone who wrote a book called "What Is Populism" might provide a useable definition in his column. I've never thought the populism necessarily had to include the trait of being a threat to democracy, which is what the writer seems to be saying. If that's the case, then I agree that Sanders would not qualify. My working definition, though, doesn't include that idea. Rather, I think of populism as a political tactic that provides frustrated and/or angry voters with simplistic answers to complex problems in a way that makes them feel heard and seen. By that definition, Sanders certainly qualifies.
4
@Chris Grasso
Fair, but it's a pretty short article. The author likely had a lot to say in a limited word count. Hard choices to make, and ultimately I think the author's point was successfully made without having to dive too deeply into the meaning of a term that apparently took an entire book to define.
5
@Theo Gifford -- Then why make "populism" the hook of the piece? Why not just say Sanders is not a threat to democracy, but Trump is? By denying that Sanders is a populist, it seems to me the writer actually negates a huge part of his appeal. In many ways, Sanders strikes me as a different answer to the same question that inspired voters who felt unheard/unseen until Trump.
Thank you, thank you, for making sense. Bernie is categorically different from Trump and other so-called populists.
He is honest. check
He is a lower case democrat. check
He is consistent. check
He is intelligent. check
He has always worked within the norms of our republic. check
He has support from across the political spectrum. check
He has never been embroiled in a scandal. check
He has genuine respect for other humans. check
He has humility, despite the power of his convictions. check
He has a surprising sense of humor. check
24
There is nothing wrong with being a populist. The problem is with "populist" leaders like Trump who use the language of populism to entice populist supporters, but then actually "rule" like a dictator for oligarch buddies. I won't vote for Sanders in the primary, but if elected, I would trust his principles to stay true to populist and socialist and democratic norms.
8
When I see Bernie and Trump are very similar like 'populist' (pseudo), attacking news media, breaking norms, cult followings and insulting the opponent like women can not be president or Biden is corrupt, I am very scared. Bernie is not sincere or authentic as his followers perceive. In this op-ed he is compared with Erdogan of Turkey and PM Viktor for attacking the elites and his critics. I hope Bernie will not ruin the chances for the Democratic candidate in 2020 like he did in 2016. Most important thing to remember that the American voters are not ready to vote for a self declared "Socialist".
10
@ASHRAF CHOWDHURY You obviously didn't read the article, because nowhere is he compared to them - Trump was. Also, it's widely discredited that he had anything to do with "ruining" the chances of Hillary Clinton winning. The reality is, she lost by small margins in swing states (where she didn't campaign) and probably also as a result of the Russian intelligence agencies steering it towards Trump.
14
@Maggie How do you account for the larger numbers of disaffected conservatives who voted for Gary Johnson (like 2x1 vs. Jill Stein voters)? Where do you think their votes line up with? Or does that blow the whole premise to shreds?
If the intent of this piece is quell the growing sentiment across party lines that Bernie Sanders platform and focus on "blame politics" is akin to Donald Trump's similar "blame politics" approach, it fails. In fact, after reading this I am more convinced than ever that Mr. Sanders and his supporters act and think very much like Trump's ardent but narrow fan base.
While the author takes his time trying to dispute the various ways in which Trump and Sanders are alike (or at least are two sides of the same coin) his arguments are easily debunked.
First, there is no difference between Sanders blaming Billionaires for everything and Trump blaming immigrants and "vulnerable minorities" for everything. They both know what they are saying is largely untrue, but stick to their guns because of the political traction gained from being consistent. Second, Sanders and his supporters are just a likely as Trump and his supporters to paint themselves as entirely right and good and true, while viewing those with opposing views, including from within their own party, as entirely immoral, elitist and evil.
As a registered Independent, I intend to vote for the candidate that best represents my centrist values, which may mean 3rd party. Neither Trump nor Sanders are viable candidates to lead us and I am not swayed in the least by this ill conceived defense of Sanders. Extremism on the left is not, by definition, inherently better than extremism on the right. The center wins.
13
@John agree strongly. they live in a world of absolutes. the false equivalency between trump vs sanders should be called out for what it is. however, if team sanders thinks that they have a monopoly on viable solutions, and good ideas, that *is* the anthesis of democracy. today's problems are going to require being open-minded to unexpected solutions; not just those that have a (minuscule) chance at being implemented (imperfectly) every 4-8 years
3
@John I'm not sure where Cactose is located. If it is in a competitive state I hope you don't vote 3rd party. I feel your frustration with the possibility of having to chose between Trump and a perceived extreme left wing candidate. But a 3rd party candidate won't win. Choosing what you believe is the lesser of two evils will have more impact.
2
@Chaz
I respectfully disagree. Faced with two horrible choices in 2016, I and about 5% of voters opted to vote 3rd party. The left views those votes (in hindsight) as a "vote for Trump", which is nonsense. A vote against both candidates is just as important a political and democratic statement as voting for either of them. I am not interested in the lesser of two evils. I am interested in reconciliation, compromise and an end to "blame" politics on the right and the left. Neither Bernie Sanders nor Donald Trump can heal what truly ails us and I won't be voting for either of them.
1
Mr. Sanders may not be a threat to democracy or the USA in and of himself. However, many of us hold that he is a weak candidate and thus will lose the general election to Mr. Trump in the fall. As such:
Sanders (weak) + Trump (strong) = 2nd term for Mr. Trump (nightmare)
Those of us who really want Mr. Sanders to lose the primary are NOT saying that Mr. Sanders is an enemy of America (that's Mr. Trump). We just want our candidates to win because we think they are better suited for a general election victory.
I'm sorry that the left thinks this is so personal because it isn't. Maybe if the left could find it in them to refrain from lobbing nasty personal attacks against the centrist candidates, then it might be easier to see that centrists are not interested in demonizing Mr. Sanders because our energy is squarly focused on defeating Mr. Trump.
23
@C.S. I think the point was moreso that, if Sanders is weak against Trump, it's because of moderate democrats who won't vote for him, and that if Bernie wins the nomination they need to get over their distaste.
1
I don't know if anyone could defend Sanders from the charge of being a "populist" but this author certainly failed. The fact that trump -and his brand of populism-is the greater danger to the nation does not exculpate Sanders. He uses the same methods trump does when he vilifies certain "elites" and thus conveniently simplifies deep structural problems in society. He uses essentially the same mantra trump uses: "trust me, I am the one and only person who can fix what is wrong in this country". He promises revolutionary transformations that will solve all of the life difficulties his disaffected followers face. And further, his core of "true believers", or base, idolize him in the same uncritical manner that members of the trump "cult" do their leader. Bernie Sanders is the avatar of economic populism.
19
@Callie
Except he has NEVER said "trust me, I am the one and only person who can fix what is wrong in this country".
Find be the video or quote please.
When in fact he has been saying for over 50yrs. change comes from the bottom up. That it takes We the People to foster change. He has consistently said he cannot do it on his own.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlxuqgMe6WM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuOxoux-ha4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWW2eQ_ga0g
1
@Callie
Sadly this echoes much of what we experienced in 2016 which I described in an article written after that debacle.
https://veermag.com/2016/12/winter-in-america-who-let-the-dogs-out/
1
Bernie Sanders is, in many ways, admirable. But he is also a populist in the sense that his policy ideas make sense if one makes the following common assumptions - that there is a fixed population, technology does not fundamentally change and people behave in good faith when they interact with public systems or the private sector economy.
These assumptions, of course, are quite wrong in critical ways, and are especially wrong in the context of the USA. These assumptions are also fairly common, so people promote a lot of bad ideas and many of these ideas get much more traction than they should. Bernie seems all too happy to reap the harvest of support from those who, in good faith (believing in these policies for their advertised effects) or bad (hoping that bad policies pass so they can exploit them for personal gain) also buy in to a desire for sweeping changes led by government. This is, unfortunately, deeply concerning.
4
Oh, there has been and continues to be a relentless stream of nonsense written about Sanders in the mainstream news media and spoken about him by corporate yahoos on television. When not being ignored, his policies are misrepresented or dismissed. His candidacy has been referred to everywhere, including regularly in this very newspaper, as a radical insurgency, intentionally evoking images of fundamentalists planting I.E.D.'s or with bombs strapped to their chests. Despite having very high likability, approval and trust ratings, he is described in the media as angry and a curmudgeon. I could go on.
What needs to be called out is that all of that anti-Sanders bias, including this nonsense of painting Trump and Sanders with the same brush, is motivated by the greedy interests of the corporations that control our news media and the political establishment beholden to those interests.
Sanders actually cares about people. Those interests do not. He knows, for example, that making college affordable and health care a right will dramatically aid poor African-American families with kids in Detroit, for example, an be profoundly impactful to every socio-economically disadvantaged group across the country. The news media doesn't want to say that. Perhaps they don't want to level the playing field a bit. What's that about?
31
@Joe What's that about? That't possibly about large corporations worried that they will lose value or be broken up by an anti-monopolist. Shareholder value trumps the social good.
5
@Joe
I wish that people would stop trotting out the tired and unsubstantiated trope that "opposition" to Sanders is tied up in some vast Corporations-Elitist-Establishment conspiracy. It's bunk and always has been. Mr. Sanders is grilled explicitly for his beliefs and it is only among his narrow base of supporters that questions about his "extremism" hit a nerve.
By all AMERICAN political and social standards Bernie Sanders is a radical, a populist and his platform would introduce socialist ideology and practice into our daily lives. It's entirely your choice to support that or not, but please stop using a nonsensical defenses like "America is the only country that doesn't provide universal healthcare" or "Socialism works in Europe" or "Democrats who oppose Sanders are really Republicans". Nonsense and blather.
1
"... voters perceive Mr. Sanders as always being his same sincere, authentic self."
No, we don't.
15
@John I would bet a lot of money that if you polled people on candidates perceived sincerity Sanders would win in a landslide. You don't speak for everyone.
16
Yes, we do
@John I think if you ask most folks from Vermont they'll tell you that, love him or hate him, he is the most authentic, unpretentious, consistent politician of our time......
Bernie Sanders applied for official conscientious objector status during the Vietnam war. It states plainly in the application that applying for such status designates the applicant as opposing not one specific war but all wars and can not thru such belief participate in any war, present or future, in any capacity. How does Bernie reconcile such a position yet ask to be Commander in Chief of our armed forces?
Yes, Bernie withdrew the application but only after the war was about to end.
11
@Alvaro Cruz He was what 24 then? Are all you’re opinions exactly the as they were when you were 20?
@Alvaro Cruz Thank you for reminding us that war is a good thing!
@Alvaro Cruz
Clinton, Bush, and Obama never served in the Armed Services either. What is your point?
1
In Denmark, rich people choose to work with people to make their country more socially just. Is this capitalism?
7
@Roland Berger Who cares?
This is an excellent analysis. Everyone voting in 2020 should read it. There are so many poor and invalid reasons to object to Bernie Sanders in 2020. He's too old until you realize the viable alternatives are around the same age. And he can't win in the general, except that that's exactly what was said about Obama and trump. Well, he's too radical, but only if you call universal healthcare and a rise in the minimum wage, which have already been widely accepted now, as radical. Whatever excuse you want to give for his unelectability says more about you than it does about him. Bernie is, by far, the best candidate for president after the current disaster presidency. The only question is why the lower an middle classes aren't propelling him, as enthusiastically as they should, to the top. My hunch is that we are an already broken democracy and nobody believes it can be fixed.
28
Bernie reminds me a bit of Trump. Jeremy Corbyn is closer analogy. Either comparison should give one pause. He’s smarter than Corbyn & more avuncular but he’s prone to a kind of bombast similar to Trump’s and is more of an agitator than a policy-maker. And like Trump he has a high floor but a low ceiling. Would I vote for him in the primaries if I thought he had the best chance of beating Trump? Well, yes. Unfortunately, I think a Bernie candidacy makes a second Trump term considerably much more likely. I’d still vote for him in the general over Trump, but that’s not saying too much. Keep in mind what happened to Corbyn’s Labour Party last month in the U.K. election. The most important thing is to remove Trump from office, from Twitter & look to possibly prosecute him.
You can’t make policy in this country unless you have power, and a Bernie candidacy would make it harder, not easier, to regain that power.
23
@Graham Strouse
He reminds me of FDR.
@Graham Strouse You left out the part of the Lib-Dems, the centrist party in the UK, who lost so badly that their leader Jo Swinson didn't even get re-elected. Stop spreading lies and false analogies.
I couldn't agree more with this analysis and would only add that a big difference between Sanders and others, especially Biden, is that it's clear why Sanders wants to be president.
Of those still in the race, that´s also true of Elizabeth Warren and Tom Steyer, whether or not you think they should be the nominee.
The others are just running to get Trump out and return to the way things were before, promising negligible improvements -- -tweaking and tinkering, to those who can´t afford health care and insurance, rent, medications or food. Where we were before got us where we are today. And anything Biden and other self-described "centrists" do promise to do, to help the poor and the middle class, is prompted by the pressure they feel from Sanders´ supporters. So why not vote for the real thing? The same is true for foreign policy; everyone´s against the Iraq war now but Sanders is the only one who was against it when it mattered.
Being authentic and consistent in your advocacy for those who haven´t benefitted from the policies of the last fifty years doesn´t mean you´re the same as Trump! Is Reverend Barber´s Poor People´s Campaign a "left-wing" analog of right-wing populism? Or a threat to democratic governance? Of course not. Neither is Sanders and equating him with Trump is not just wrong, it´s dangerous.
27
Sen. Sanders wins his support by making un-keepable promises to placate the indignation of people who are angry that others have things they don't. He is a populist.
29
@Jim "...others have things they don't"... such as healthcare. I'm glad I live in Canada, where we've had for over 50 years the type of healthcare Bernie's been talking about. I'd have died 20 years ago if I was in the USA – doctors in Canada told me that in the States my heart transplant wouldn't have been covered, because my cardiac failure was caused by a rare auto-immune condition, & the transplant would be considered 'experimental'.
9
We can frame the argument more simply. Consensus is only desirable where consensus exists. National consensus in a nation as big as the United States is nearly impossible. Do you even know what Wyoming looks like? You have about as much in common with the rest of America as you do with someone in Denmark.
Centerism is convenient for the people who lead this unfathomable mess of humanity. It doesn't really represent who we are though. I urge you to imagine what 300 million people looks like. Think really hard. Think what 300 million people would actually look like. It's impossible. The human brain can't process that much humanity. It's like trying to imagine the ocean as rain drops.
So assuming consensus is neither possible or desirable, what is our best course of action? The Trumpian philosophy follows the "my people first" trajectory. The Sanders philosophy follows a path where we help is many people as we can. This sometimes makes Sanders seem race, gender, or otherwise identity insensitive. However, you'll notice a big difference.
Vilifying the rich is a means to an end. That end is generating revenue for improving the lives of more people. The money needs to come from somewhere. You need to vilify the rich in order to tax them. Sanders is selling a tax increase for general prosperity. In economic parlance, that's known as progressive taxation. What's Trump's selling? Think really hard about that question.
17
@Andy
Your points are well taken and really beautifully put. The human mind seems wired to simplify and generalize. Taking a step back can be really enlightening. I often feel this way about the way that various entire states and regions (and their citizens) are written off -- as if by living in a state where 50 thousand votes that happened to count more than others under our system were for Trump makes you, personally, an invisible part of a "backwards" "stupid" group, etc. Or because you live within 50 miles of a coastline, you are an "elite" etc.
Nice to see all the commenters here that are sure, absolutely positive, that Bernie would lose, Bernie would be a disaster for Democrats, Bernie is too angry, old, or too much like Jeremy Corbyn.
These kinds of predictions are identical in nature to Trump Can't Possibly Win, or A Black Man Could Never Be Elected President.
BTW, I am not a Bernie supporter, although I will definitely vote for him should he win the Democratic nomination. But I'm definitely a critic of rock solid predictions that are based on opinion.
28
@Jack Lemay I believe that had Sanders been the Democratic nominee in 2016, he would have beaten Trump. Yes, he wouldn't have won California by the margin that Hillary did, but he would have prevailed in the swing states of Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania.
2
Senator Sanders states political principles that are mainstream per consensus of the 1940s, the "greatest generation." His proposals are to the right of established policies in thriving European countries. For example, Germany has had long-term care insurance since the 1990s - once you need support at home, you get it, after a physician's examination and certification.
It is the American 1% who have not only grabbed unprecedented proportions of national wealth, but also convinced large numbers of the 99% that they deserve it. Actually, they are morally different from the rest of us: they have less compassion and are more ruthless and uncaring. Numerous academic studies have shown the distinct psychology of the rich which tends towards the antisocial.
Of course they and their allies in the political class - like Secretary Clinton - are not happy about Senator Sanders' campaign.
The question is whether the rest of us will turn towards compassion and solidarity as our solution, or persist in the dream that we could be one of them.
The latter may be the case - then we are headed towards a very steep cliff at the bottom of which lies climate chaos with crop failures, famine of those who cannot buy scarce food, vast homelessness of the poor and of climate refugees, and civil violence.
45
These distortions of the history, and German health care—it’s basically Obamacare, okay?—plus the binary logic of angels/devils is orecisely why I am voting for somebody else in the primary.
I disagree. Both Sanders and Trump attack elites and foster divisions and name enemies.
The real difference is that Sanders’s naming of enemies make a lot more sense: it’s more just and credible to point out the one percent as hurting America than to point out California, immigrants, Baltimore, Colin Kirkpatrick, Canada, BLM, gun control and Democrats as threats to the nation.
18
Professor Muller writes, "the fact is that Mr. Sanders (and, to an extent, Elizabeth Warren) are simply daring to diverge from sappy talk about healing America as a nation. They are saying loudly that we are not all equally in this together, but instead that we have sharply opposed interests."
Respectfully, I think Muller almost gets there, but not quite.
I am presently faced with a situation where I must put my career and economic well-being second, and my commitment to the rule of law--and, not to put it too grandiosely--the subject of my oath as an officer of the court, first. Although I may not be able to retire for many years if I make the right choice, I feel there really is no choice--and I feel our country is in much the same predicament. If Trump does not go, it may be decades until we can repair the damage, if at all.
Although all Americans are not lawyers, in my view we nevertheless have an ethical--if not a moral--obligation to remind ourselves that beneath the "sharply opposed interests" Prof. Muller highlights run a shared interest in certain principles, without which the Republic itself will not survive.
17
When I think of Bernie Sanders, I don't think of Donald Trump. I think of Jeremy Corbyn.
Another social-democatic politician in a nation that is not that, and that does not want a revolution. I suspect that a majority in both nations want some of what Sanders proposes, but not enough to stop a Democratic nominee Sanders from going down in flames like Corbyn did and taking the party with him.
Why do you think the Trump folks never criticize Sanders and refer to him as the logical Democratic candidate. They WANT him to win the nomination because he would be the absolute easiest to demonize and defeat. The vast majority of Americans, I believe, want a government that supports evolution and not revolution: An Obama democrat and not a Corbyn democrat.
43
@M. K. - Your analogy is flawed. The main issues in the UK were Brexit and Corbyn's alleged anti-semitism. The other policy issues were a side show.
This is NOTHING like the US.
And explain to me why simply expanding a well-functioning and beloved program like Medicare is not evolution. not revolution.
And BTW, we can see how successful Obama was with compromising with the Republicans by looking at the ACA. Obama started with a Heritage Foundation health plan that had been implemented by a Republican governor. He then allowed a conservative Senator on the payroll of the medical industrial complex to get it thru Congress. Over 200 Republican amendments were added.
And how many Republican votes did he get?
And we are left with a system in which
200,000 people die each year because they did not get the care that could have saved their life (look up amenable mortality)
530,000 families go bankrupt each year because of medical expenses
our system will cost over $50 TRILLION over 10 years (We paid $3.65 TRILLION in 2018 and long term medical inflation is 5.25%) while no estimate of Bernie's plan is over $35 TRILLION.
Tell me why we should emulate that.
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different result.
21
@Len Charlap I agree with you last comment, and it summarizes why I believe Sanders would, if nominated, lead the Democrats to a crashing defeat. In the aftermath of the UK election, Corbyn has been saying that Labor "won the argument" despite getting so badly defeated. This, I'd argue, is the true definition of delusion.
Obama did not succeed in many ways, and as a progressive Democrat myself I regret that. But he moved forward on health care, on the environment and climate change, on racial issues, on gender issues, on income inequality and so much more that Trump has in 3 years undone in his venal return to the 1920s. But the answer is not to resurrect Norman Thomas, but to elected an Obama-like candidate and also win the Senate.
The British electorate was even divided on Brexit but Corbyn lost overwhelmingly - and I'd argue BECAUSE of his proposed social programs. He promised what he could not deliver because so many people didn't want it delivered.
When the first Brexit vote unexpectedly passed, it was said by many that it presaged the election of Trump soon after. If Sanders is nominated, I fear that the trend will be repeated and our improved but still-so-vulnerable Jeremy Corbyn will be crushed as well.
2
@M. K.
The median wage has been flat for 48+ years (see graph#2 at: bit.ly/EPI-study).
Since some wages have gone up (health/tech) & some in good unions have floated (7%) we know that the vast majority of workers have faced 48+ years of declining expectation in an economy that has grown over 150% (90% of those gains flowed to the <1%)
The work force=150 million & affects their families.
From 1945 to 72 wages grew in lockstep with GNP (up 100%). Presumably this is when America was great.
Pre 1973=demand side economics, given to us by FDR.
Post 1980=supply side economics given us by Reagan.
Demand=wages. Supply=wage suppression, thus the 48 years of flat wages.
Supply favors <1%
Demand favors everybody
Both demand & supply can be efficacious in certain conditions, but after a while lose their efficacy through saturation (too much of said policy bias). From 1973-1980 we had demand side saturation (stagflation).
Since 1998 we've had supply side saturation (investment bubbles). (By the way the Great Recession was solved by a short burst of demand side Rx, but in the end 90% of the gains went to the <1%).
In 2016 a pro-hillary supporter economist put Sanders policy proposals through the standard model and announced numbers that were so good that everyone assumed he made a mistake. Turned out he was right but the media didn't cover it because it's owned by the <1% who want to continue supply indefinitely no matter the harm it causes soceity or planet.
5
No candidate who identifies him- or herself as a "Socialist" can win a national election in the USA in 2020. That may not be reasonable or fair given Sanders' actual policy proposals, but it is reality. Yes, Bernie is actually a "Social Democrat" and yes, his agenda would merely put the USA on a path similar to that of virtually every other developed nation with a democratic form of government. But the plain fact is that choosing Sanders is a dead end in a national race,
35
@J
You MIGHT be right and Bernie could lose if nominated.
You might be WRONG and Bernie could still lose (for other reasons) if nominated.
Or you might be wrong.
But you don't know and nobody else does. And none of this is a matter of "plain fact."
26
@Stewart -- Show me a poll of states outside the coasts that show a majority of voters have a favorable opinion of Socialism or Socialists. If you can do that, I'll rethink my position.
Meanwhile, sure--the voters of the US *might* elect a ham sandwich (they did vote for Trump, after all). I don't want to roll the dice in 2020 on hoping voters in western PA, Wisconsin, etc. will suddenly overcome a lifetime aversion to (what they understand as) Socialism.
6
It’s far too big a risk to take this year.
1
The fact that Sanders is surging is just common sense. There’s nothing mystical about it.
Bernie applies strongly to working class people. Their wages haven’t budged in over 40 years. They know that the system is rigged against them – and it is. Bernie is the one that single highhandedly got Amazon to raise their wages to $15/hour.
Universal health care at a reasonable in the developed world is taken for granted – except in America where it seems to be a novel concept.
Young people like Bernie since he pays attention to the fact that college tuition is ludicrously expensive. If we don’t make it affordable, how do we compete against China and win?
The people that are really scared of Bernie are those that have been huge beneficiaries of a system that very strongly favors the wealthy people at the expense of the ordinary people.
Let’s hope that Bernie doesn’t get silenced.
88
@American Expat You are exactly right. The comfortable middle class in the metropolitan areas like the Democratic party right where it is. Low taxes, restricted competition in education (by school district real estate prices or tuition), benefits of free trade and cheap products and services.
Being a Democrat absolves them from feeling guilty about the homeless people on every intersection. They really do not want the party to go left and do not see the connection between losing the workers' support and Republican victories.
7
St B. Isn’t arguing for some type of universal health coverage and care.
@American Expat very well said! thanks
Well I am 80 and two yrs senior to Bernie. I would never vote for anyone with a bad ticker and as we know more heart attacks are coming. If elected he will be running a tram line to Walter Reed. The burdens and intense nature of the presidency is not something Sanders could endure with his age and history of heart attack which he incidentally tried to keep private. If this is ageism so be it but I know and feel every one of my 80 yrs with all of my current trips to docs and clinics. I doubt anyone would take a chance putting me in public office let alone the presidency.
39
@art Speak for yourself Art. Bernie is what we have to seriously combat the Oligarchy, and he has spent years building this coalition. Let him pick tulsi Gabbard as his VP and we are off to a better start than 4 more of the evil dictactor.
@art
If Sanders wins the primary, yes, we do expect you to vote for his presidency.
We do NOT know more heart attacks are forth coming.
When Dr.'s implanted the two stents they naturally did a complete heart study. NO other blockages were seen or detected. Sanders has been given a complete health study and greenlighted to campaign and continue his run.
www.msnbc.com/msnbc/doctor-bernie-sanders-overall-very-good-health
https://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/story/news/2019/12/31/bernie-sanders-releases-medical-records-showing-good-health/2781926001/
As for being private, yes...for less than 3 days.
C'mon art, a little empathy and understanding here.
Bernie is NOT you art. He is functioning extremely well, out pacing many of the other front runners, still.
Hope you'll vote Blue no matter.
2
"Democracy is not about consensus or bipartisanship or making us all get along. Its genius consists in the idea that it’s fine to have divisions...."
Consensus may not be inherent but it is characteristic in true Democracy that the best leaders facilitate consensus and bipartisandhip among differing factions within society, to help unite people of differing ideas, values and beliefs. Bernie and Trump are similar in that they show no interest or skill in helping us as a nation find compromise and common ground (both hallmarks of democratic process and good leadership). Without that process - finding consensus through bipartisanship - there is the danger creating the diviseness we now have. My concern about Bernie is that he displayed a lack of bipartisanship during the 2016 election by his reluctance to concede to HRC and help create a consensus with her. If he had done so early and more assertively during the campaign we may very well be in a different place now. Instead hr held rigidly to his campaign rhetoric and continued sowing divisions within the ranks.
Also, it used to be he demonized "the millionaires and the billionaires"; since becoming a millionaire himself he only targets billionaires.
19
Bernie is nothing more than a career politician, albeit one who would not be happy unless he turned our economy into some version of "Venezuela Lite". He cannot win a national election and his supporters would do well to contemplate the damage that a landslide election defeat might do to the national democratic party when he loses to Trump in November.
28
@javamaster because gradualism has worked so well for somebody making $13.25 an hour and is just trying to survive? They'll contemplate that damage alright.
10
@javamaster - Why is it always Venezuela and not Denmark or Sweden or, more likely, Canada (if you really want a fair comparison) when anti-socialists consider what the US might look like with a little more Socialism?
1
Thank you Mr Muller for describing the false equivalence that plagues our (supposedly neutral) media, "centrist Democrats," etc. I remembers LBJ, and FDR is not the distant past for me. Bernie is not promoting extreme policies when seen in the context of mainstream US policy in the mid-20th century when our economy thrived, creating far more jobs than what followed.
Medicare provides universal coverage for those over 65. Why not for all Americans? Radical?
Bernie's "socialism" does not advocate "nationalizing the means of production." He advocates reasonable regulation, universally accepted by Democrats and most Republicans before the disastrous extreme right wing policies of Ronald Regan began transferring ownership of assets and growth in income to the billionaire class. That was extreme!
Pragmatic regulation prevented the crises that have destroyed so much of the 99%, like the Savings bank crash in the 1980's and the crash in 2008. Unregulated capitalism always leads to such crashes, as it has throughout much of US history. Regulation prevented such crashes from FDR through the 1970's.
"Neutral" media and "mainstream" critics labeling Bernie a fringe candidate is ahistorical. Returning to the low level of income inequality we had during the halcyon days of reasonable regulation during much of my lifetime is hardly extreme.
Tax cuts that reduced taxes by trillions providing benefits exclusively for the wealthy, that's extreme.
31
Those who oppose Bernie Sanders’ populism don’t actually fear that it poses a threat to our democracy. What they really fear is that his populism threatens to make our country too democratic.
40
Not really. What we fear is that his policy ideas are impractical & that a Bernie candidacy makes a second Trump term more likely. Like Trump, he has a high floor bit a low ceiling.
20
@Graham Strouse
Bernie's policy ideas are practical outcomes to aim for - the goal is to reduce the extremes of poverty in this country, particularly when those extremes are experienced by working people.
There's a democratic process for working on this, and he's fully aware of the give-and-take, the details to be worked through with a lot of different proper. He's also aware of the long days, months and years that this work requires. With decent representation and good-faith participation, these changes won't be a rash of top-down edicts from above - this will be a product of who we are
The revolution he speaks of is a change of attitude towards the purpose of government - that protecting the vulnerable protects the stability of our society. That stability is the source of our wealth, it's the optimum environment for commerce and it's the best place to raise our children.
And Bernie is not the only one that can do this.
Such ideas are baked into the founding of this country - it's in the job description for every member of our government.
1
@Graham Strouse And four more years of high drama. Ideologues don't make good leaders.
Spare me “the amendment king” Bernie Bro’s. That’s just silly.
Sanders speaks of the realities faced for those who have no voice. Whatever campaign promises are made by Democrats are watered down by Republicans until a vast amount of people are abandoned, Senator Sanders reach for the stars. The Republicans did with their warped tax plan and knowingly achieved a trillion dollars deficit a year. Nordic countries have a higher standard of living and according to Nat Geo are higher up on the, " happiness scale," which translates into less stress. You would think looking into why that is so and adapt that success to enhance all lives rather than begrudging SS and Medicare or and labeling them with the offensive word, " entitlements, " which eliminates the fact a working person paid into the system with every paycheck they received In addition Finland's education scores are the highest globally, we don't even have standardized textbooks throughout the nation and conservative states can distort or eliminate history at will. Learning from others is something elected leaders resist, as if the are all knowing like the current baffoon residing in the White House.
46
Change is very difficult for some and the privileges garnered by the very rich are not going to be surrendered without a fight.
The maldistribution of income would not be such a serious problem if that income did not guarantee political power.
If anyone doubts the corrosive effects of Citizens United I give you two examples.
One is the tax cut passed last year the benefits of which went to corporations and the 1%. Republican congressmen publicly stated their large donors threatened them with withholding donations if the bill did not pass.
The second is Mr. Parnas who gained access to Trump via a large donation that he mortgaged his home to get.
The centrists of the Democratic Party have had a very cozy relationship with very large donors and are loathe to see that end.
Both Sanders and Warren acknowledge what we all know. In politics money talks and we all know what walks.
There is a Democratic primary and the voters will decide this time who the Democratic nominee is not some nervous Nellie pundits or centrists.
24
How do you propose that a President Sanders would get any of his policies enacted? Progressives didn’t flip a single Republican seat in 2018. Bernie’s Beliebers are staunch, but there aren’t enough of them.
7
@Edward B. Blau Let's hope when he loses this time, he gets out quickly and with grace.
5
@Graham Strouse
Progressives flipped seats in Virginia. Giving up in advance is a sure road to defeat that we cannot afford.
1
Taking MLK's example- a leader who spoke to the power of radical compassion while also addressing the need for economic justice, I take exception to the use of the term "sappy" when describing the need for healing in this country. Love, compassion and the commitment to healing aren't sappy- they're transformative and absolutely critical in ensuring that we work effectively, in a thorough & sustainable way for change.
>>"(Sanders and Warren) are saying loudly that we are not all equally in this together, but instead that we have sharply opposed interests. "
I'd make a distinction between A) ensuring we have a society that respects and cares for those most at risk, that protects the right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness built into our declaration of Independence on one hand and B) focusing specifically on the idea that one or more classes of people are personally to blame, morally bankrupt and simply committed to maintaining an unjust society. I hear a lot of this from some activists and supporters within the party- and Steyer is a clear example showing where the idea breaks down, one among many.
wealth and power absolutely need to be circulated in a productive way- and it's also possible for some of this change to occur through increased access and opportunity. There's an important (non-sappy) case to be made about how we are connected- about how our future depends on building policies that promote social, environmental and economic justice.
8
Bernie and AOC will, in the end, be the final tear that rips the Democratic Party into Two Distinct Parties. It is the biggest gift to the Republicans they could ever wish for.
25
I wouldn’t go that far. America isn’t that much like the UK. For better or worse, ours is very much a two-Party system. We’re more conservative overall then the U.K. & the progressive base, though sizable, is neither sizable enough nor savvy enough to make itself into a viable third party.
3
@GregP I disagree that "Bernie and AOC" are what will rip the Democratic party apart -- it's already deeply rent, as is our society. The comfortable class that serves the financial elite of both parties is what has been the biggest gift to the Republicans over the past few decades, moving the center ever further right until that group is now further right than were the Republicans of the 1970s.
8
@Graham Strouse
I wonder if it won't be the progressive base at all but moderates from both parties. I think people underestimate how very many Americans are exhausted with extremes. They agree that there are problems and that they must be addressed but have very serious, very reasonable doubts that either party will fix them because both parties' bases are polar opposites and are driving the conversation. I won't be shocked at all, if Sanders is nominated, if a moderate third party candidate gets into the fray. I also won't be shocked if they get some pretty decent turnout. Most voters I know are exhausted and they want the contention to go away. They are trying to see a way that half of America isn't livid the day following Election Day.
1
To talk about the differences in left wing vs. right wing populism, a little borrowing from the world of comedy and satire is in order.
Left wing populism generally "punches up"; it tries to comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable, or at least guilt the comfortable into sharing its comfort to a greater extent.
Right wing populism "punches down"; it scapegoats groups that are already afflicted as sources of all problems with the "in-groups" it wants to support it. It basically says "not one of us".
Which do you think is a fairer approach?
44
I think of it more like an early ‘80s video game like Pac-Man. When you hit the edge of the screen on one left you come out in the same position on the right.
@Glenn Ribotsky If I could recommend this 1000 times I would!
@Glenn Ribotsky Yes, that is exactly the difference.
From an early Democratic debate:
Senator Sanders, what are the first steps that you will take to roll out Medicare for all nationwide when you get into office?
Millions of people will rise up and demand it-there will be a revolution!
With all due respect, sir, if rising up and demanding something were an effective project plan, then any terrible two-year-old in the country could be elected President.
Oh...that's right, that did happen! I can see why you'd stick with that strategy.
14
@common sense advocate The "revolution" strategy is about as realistic as Mexico paying for the wall. But the media never really called Trump out on that ridiculous strategy and no one is asking Bernie to explain how "revolution" is going to tip the Senate his way. Is the "revolution" coming to deep red Alabama, Montana, South Dakota? Who knows?
In the 1870s the first telephone lines were being constructed, and soon people around the world could access the telephone. The landline based telephone is largely dead today. In the early 1990s IBM invented the predecessor to the "smart phone", and in 2007 Steve Jobs introduced the iphone. Virtually everyone on the planet now has one.
It took over 100 years for well-placed investors to accrue the financial benefits of the old telephone, but only a few to accrue the benefits of the iphone. The compression of new wealth over a few years for the iphone compared to the phone it replaced is enlightening. The old telephone created millionaires over many decades. The iphone has created bilionaires over just a few years.
At the same time the phone was aging out, Reagan and subsequent Presidents and Congresses gradually lowered the tax rates from 92% in the fifties down to current rates.
Sanders is not attacking Billionaires so much as he is attacking the system that has allowed their creation and proliferation, as shown by the iphone and big tech generally.
23
@Olebamadude In that case, please surrender your smart phones and laptops, since those objects are merely tools for your oppression by the billionaire class.
Although I agree with the title of this article, I nonethelss found it to be troubling because it indicates that the author is surrounded by colleagues who are very prejudiced against Bernie supporters.
I have met dozens of Bernie supporters over the past seven months the characterization of them as "angry" is not true. A more accurate stereotype may be “overly optimistic.” I am 68 years old and have never been more optimistic about the future.
Donald Trump is not a populist, but a con-man, pretending to be a populist. The only difference between a true populist and a true progressive is that we tend to apply the word populist to working class people and progressives to middle class or upper income people. People who demonize populists need to read a book on the Populist movement of the 1890s. It was not perfect, but over all very progressive and many populist proposals of the 1890s were later achieved in the Roosevelt-Truman years.
Elites rule in countries that are not democracies, so why would it be wrong to be concerned about elite control in a society that pretends to be a democracy?
Finally, what is wrong with billionaires paying more taxes? Why is this considered to be demonizing them? If I was a billionaire I would be happy to pay higher taxes because I would still have more money than anyone else. The upper income tax rate during World War II was 94%. But billionaires were more patriotic in those days.
50
I have never made a negative comment about Bernie without being attacked. I really, really dislike him. if he is the nominee he better have a centrist as a running mate or I will have a hard time voting for him.
12
@Pamela Trowbridge
This does not sound credible to me. Are you experiencing this talking to a real person or are you expericing this on line where you don't know who you are communicating with?
3
@Pamela Trowbridge In my experience, Bernie supporters aren’t just angry, they are furious. Trump supporters are also angry. Where is this getting us? I wish Al Gore or John Kerry were running, but that is pointless. I will vote for Bernie as a nominee, and I do feel he is sincere, but I don’t like him either.
1
"rightly or wrongly, voters perceive Mr. Sanders as always being his same sincere, authentic self"
Not all voters
29
Bernie has never been subjected to real scrutiny.
The Russians through their algorithms made sure to answer any criticisms or any praise of Hillary by flooding Facebook Twitter and comment sections with disinformation, greatly inflating Bernie's real support.
Broadcast Networks did not want to risk losing newly discovered Progressive viewers by criticizing any of Bernie's half baked ideas. And they loved that ratings would grow even if they touted an imaginary fight for the nomination ( Hillary had overwhelming support among Democrats.)
Trump was chomping at the bit to run against Sanders.
And Hillary held off a lot knowing full well that the cult that Sanders created was totally capable of throwing the election to Trump. We see how that worked in MI WI PA.
Sanders is the dream candidate for Trump. and mainstream media needs to stop enabling him.
14
@CLSW2000 If the "mainstream media" is supporting Bernie how is it that there has been virtually no coverage of him by the NYT over theses past months UNTIL his polling numbers demanded it? And most coverage has been in opinion pieces?
@dharmagirl MSM has helped Sanders both this year and in 2016 by neglecting to point out the flaws in the policies that he is promoting. They gave him a pass and let him babble on. They went after Elizabeth Warren on the cost of her proposals but neglected to go after Sanders. He was able to demagogue and make ridiculous claims and the only ones who pointed this out were some of the op-eds. Finally this year he is getting some well deserved and long overdue scrutiny.
“One might think that Mr. Sanders policies are crazy (even if in fact they are inspired by Denmark, one of the world’s most successful capitalist democracies).”
When I heard Bernie say that Denmark was a model for his vision for America I immediately googled tax rates in Denmark. I suggest anyone reading this comment do the same. They are very different from the tale that Sanders and Warren are telling.
I have always thought that our country should look at how others handle health care and other problems we have and am open to implementing their policies if they have a better way.
But Trump, Fox News and the GOP will have a field day pointing out to voters how much their taxes will go up if Bernie is elected.
Democratic Socialism doesn’t mean getting free stuff by soaking the rich. Yes, the tax advantages big corporations enjoy need to be eliminated and that would raise a lot of money but democratic socialism means that as a society, the people choose to contribute (pay much higher taxes) to help the society as a whole. They give more and get more in return. Sounds good to me.
Sanders is like Trump in that he is winning support by not being totally honest with his supporters. Woe to us if he allows Fox News and Trump to be the ones to present their distorted version of this truth.
14
@Me Good grief! How could it get any worse? Sanders is not the problem, he's the solution to the rise of the Oligarchy that started with Reagan. Don't blame the messenger for the problem.
The system is broken that's what Bernie is saying. Critics are killing the messenger.
24
It's comparisons in general that inform and educate voters.
3
@tovah wax
It's comparing records and backing that matters in choosing candidates.
Is Mr. Sanders a registered Democrat?
How is it not the essence of Trumpian to decide an agreement to caucus with the Democrats on the Senate floor, is the same as permission to run on the Democratic ticket and, if challenged about membership say it doesn't matter?
I find this a sticking point (DS affiliated since the 1970s, but always a registered Dem) that surprises even me.
26
There are more independents than Democrats or Republicans. In Vermont you don’t have to register as a Democrat to participate in the Democratic Party.
15
@sally
A house is on fire. You are looking at the person who is throwing water at the fire and trying to douse it. And you call them to stop because they are not firefighters. Meanwhile, the firefighters are the ones causing the fire.
Bravo! Excellent argument.
32
It is pure American phenomenon, where the only representative of two parties have a realistic chance to win the Presidency. The members of others parties should adapt if they want to have shot on Presidency.
7
Rather than comparing two of the most prominent political personalities, I find more meaning in comparing the Democratic Party and the Republican Party, and their records of shaping American Society. When Democrats were in power, they tried to create a more inclusive society, and reduce social and economic inequality. When Republicans were in power, they tightened restrictions on all those below the upper economic echelons, and increased social and economic inequality. The coming election is about which Party will be chosen to continue its historical mission.
15
The author likes to compare Sanders’ vision to that of Denmark but this isn’t an accurate depiction. Denmark taxes all of its citizens at high rates but has a really low corporate tax rate that encourages economic activity, especially in comparison to other EU nations that it competes with. This isn’t what Sanders is pitching at all.
20
But they also have much more equal distribution of incomes.
7
A very selective opinion! Mr. Sanders idolized Castro, Che, Ortega and Chavez! That group is not too different from the populist crowd the author claims Trump favors. The Sweden Mr. Sanders says the US should follow was dismantled in the 1990's when the money ran out. Now Sweden has more billionaires per population than the US, and allows freer capitalism. They merely are less corrupt with their tax policy and government administration.
24
If it is so, more reasons to vote for Sanders. Clearly, reforms he promotes brought freer capitalism to Sweden without division of American society.
9
@yulia - Actually Mr. Sanders favors the Swedish model of the 1960s-1980's that created the financial crisis and resulted in the needed pullback from more socialist tendencies. Swedish policies of that period chased away the most productive members of society, and the tax revenues they produced. "Without cows, who can society milk?". That is now occurring the highest taxed areas of the US (see articles on Greenwich, CT)
6
@Donna Gray
Please stop with the Commies under the bed thing. At the time, the alternatives to Castro, Che and Ortega were brutal right-wing regimes, complete with torture chambers and armies for domestic use only. You may recall that in Nicaragua, the dynastic Somoza regime actually used its air-force against neighborhoods in the nation's capital.
Meanwhile, it's great to hear you support the Swedish social welfare system. Too bad you'd never support a presidential who proposed it.
I’m curious as to exactly why Bernie is surging in the polls. Truly just wondering. It’s rather unexpected.
11
@RjW
No one has a rock solid answer to that, but I suspect more people are paying attention to policy positions and voting record as we get closer to the primary.
Even if what Biden and his son have done is not illegal, it seems like it ought to be. I'd take a cushy no-show job I wasn't qualified for paying 50K a month. The self-dealing among those in Washington is staggering.
There's a reason why Clinton's criticisms about Sanders not having any friends in Washington actually struck many as an endorsement. Fight for the working class over huge corporations and the wealthy?
What sacrilege!
49
@RjW
I can understand why Sander’s rise is puzzling to much of the NYT readership. Most white, relatively affluent, members of the professional and managerial class, homeowners, with decent health care benefits may find it difficult to relate to the 70-80 percent of Americans that have no such advantages. Struggling from paycheck to paycheck, constant worry about debt, lack of adequate health care, and concerned about their job security, may make them attracted to someone who promises to actually address these issues. And if they, despite their desperate circumstances, give it a moments thought, they may also worry about climate change, endless wars and a failing democracy that has been hijacked by the big money of billionaires and corporations.
22
@RjW Beginning with Reagan, the Oligarchy of the wealthy, the corporations,and the MIC have gradually taken over our democracy. That's the problem. The oligarchy is also destroying the environment with its greed. People have finally figured this out. Electing a centrist Democrat like Biden will change nothing. Biden is too compromised to deal with these needed changes. That leaves only Bernie as a reliable change agent.
7
I basically agree with the analysis here, but just because it is okay to bash billionaires (not for being rich but for gaining and using their wealth unfairly), does not make it a wise campaign strategy. To his credit, Sanders dwells on wealth inequality than the press would have you believe. What he more often talks about are practical policy proposals that would benefit all Americans ("not just millionaires and billionaires"). Growing economic inequality is of course a serious problem in its own right, as multi-billionaire Warren Buffett himself has pointed out, but it is not the only or even the main problem this year.
8
Correction:
I meant to say, "dwells on wealth inequality LESS"
@Sage "Growing economic inequality is...a serious problem in its own right...but it is not the only or even the main problem this year."...
...unless you think voter rage and despair at the hardships of inequality - and distrust of right liberal Democrats as seriously addressing it - is causing voters to stay home or vote for a Trump.
1
There is definitely something radical about a person who supports totalitarian states such as Cuba and Venezuela in the name of "good intentions". Senator Sanders doesn't seem to prize liberty except for himself. This is antithetical to the historical mission of our country.
29
Many of the founding fathers didn't value liberty - they were the slaveowners. By that standard, Bernie is definitely an improvement.
10
@yulia that's a very strawman argument, as no one is pushing for slavery in this election. Many Americans are not accustomed to a centrist, top down because we are suspicious of authoritarianism. Having lived in a country where that is the style of governance, I can say that it has both advantages and disadvantages. The virus outbreak in China showcases both. People have a right to think carefully what style of leadership they want to put in place.
9
@JEH You are so off base. Have you actually ever listened to his speeches?
The voice of the BernieBro is heard through the land. The notion that only Sanders has the purity of socialist insight to lead us from the wilderness, and that staying away from the polls is preferable to sullying one's hand by voting for someone else, gave us trump in 2016. It may again.
58
@Neal
More than 50% of white women voted for Trump. We've spent trillions on endless wars in the Middle East that have not stabilized the region or made us safer. We have a healthcare system that costs twice per capita compared to the rest of the industrialized world, doesn't cover everyone and 500K+ Americans go bankrupt primarily because of medical bills every year.
I think its fair to say that middle-of-the-road Democrats have not been effective representatives of anyone besides the wealthy and corporations. How else can you explain the huge amount of despair in the working class today? The decrease in life expectancy is a result of more people working longer hours for minimum wage and receiving less government benefits. That drives despair and a willingness to back anyone who promises a change of direction in DC (even falsely like Trump). Let's hope voters go with Sanders and not the false promise of Trump.
20
@DJ In 2018, only 2.1% of American workers had minimum wage hourly salaries. This is down from 2.8% the year before.
3
@Neal "The notion that...staying away from the polls is preferable to sullying one's hand by voting for someone else, gave us trump in 2016."
What Sanders supporters - or progressives - tell citizens to not vote?
Unless you can support your claim, you're just making things up.
13
There is nothing radical about wanting a healthy, educated, productive, safe, socially secure population, and a clean and healthy environment.
When I advocated on behalf of Sanders in 2016, I was usually told by healthy, educated, productive, safe, socially secure journalists and liberal political leaders "but how are we going to pay for it?" They had theirs and they couldn't imagine how those "less than them" could also aspire to a similarly safe and productive life.
But no one ever says that about all the wars the US engages in around the globe. And at least half the country doesn't complain about the massive tax cuts the government gives out like candy to keep the richest of the rich on their side.
In 2020 I will vote for Elizabeth Warren if she makes it to our primary (Montana votes late) because I think she has a better vision not of the future but of how to get us there. But I am 100% behind Bernie Sanders as well and would happily get out there and work for him in the fall. Or even better, for both of them.
It's time to get our nation's priorities right.
126
@avrds
"but how are we going to pay for it?" was never a topic of discussion leading up to the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq ($2T+).
That question only comes up when rich people and corporate executives see a proposed reform they do not like.
24
@DJ
Exactly!
Or even better, the wars will pay for themselves. An island on a sea of oil is what they called Iraq.
And if that doesn't work, keep the costs off the books altogether, like George W. did. Another way to "pay for them."
11
Actually, other voters do complain about the tax cuts to the rich, the wars in the middle east, and the influence of corporate interests. Bernie supporters sort of alienate themselves by assuming that practical, logistical questions are equal to apathy. Yes, sometimes you need to just try something new and adjust as you go along. However, when a candidate is pitching himself as the savior of America, he needs to be able to convince skeptics and welcome suggestions. My problem with Bernie is that he lacks the ability or the will to consider or respect other viewpoints, even those of people who share the same goals. His followers are the same, immediately ridiculing anyone who has the audacity to question the path he's proposing. And yes, that does remind me of Trump, though I would gladly take Sanders over Trump.
11
Excellent. It might do well to remember that Republican ‘never trumpers’ are still much further to the right than their party ancestors, e.g Eisenhower, Dole, even Reagan. The ‘Center’ by which we measure extremes has been dragged very far to the right of what it once was .
I remember distinctly the summer of 2008 in Antigua, Guatemala talking with Dutch business owner (a tulip producer no less!).
He remarked that in the Netherlands he is considered a solid right winger for his business views. ‘But’ he remarked, ‘ I would now be seen as a socialist in America’s new context.’
‘What happened?’ He asked me.
Whatever the answer , a large percentage of ‘the people’ are done with it. Bernie’s story is more coherent and economically based, and when you hear Trump’s ‘story’ , and see their separate prescriptions, the difference could hardly be further apart.
23
I would say that in actuality, Sanders is far more likely to endanger the Republic than Trump. Aside from the tax cut bill, Trump has had very limited legislative achievement to speak of. The vast majority of Trump’s impact could be undone by executive order relatively quickly. On the other hand, Sander’ agenda threatens the stability of our nation. The divisions in our country are not likely to diminish under a President Sanders, they are likely to increase. A moderate Democrat would be far more likely to calm down the currently hostile political atmosphere.
14
@John the moderate Democrats LOST to Trump in 2016, and are only keeping their heads above water because of Republican ineptness.
Business as usual got us Trump and will keep Trump in power. Even if he is defeated next election, moderate Democrats have no plan for moving beyond, especially since they stated that they are willing to sacrifice their House majority to oust him.
20
@Jim Moderate Democrats do have a vision to move forward. It’s more likely to gain approval from a large swath of Americans. Additionally, 2016 is hardly a barometer of how the 2020 election is likely to play out.
5
@John
The Republic is on its deathbed. Citizens who are not billionaires have little if any real representation and corporate influence defines public policy. Sanders and the broad citizen movement behind him are the last chance we have to revive the Republic -- or at least to remove the banana from it.
23
The problem with Sanders is not that he is a demagogue or that he demonizes the wealthy. The problem is that he cannot beat Trump, he demonizes potential allies and he has a 40 year track record of failing to accomplish the revolution he rants about. He and his allies fail to understand why Republicans and their Russian trolls lent him support in 2016 and are doing so now. They fail to understand that Trump’s demagogic victory was built on 40 years of incremental change by Republicans of the sort Sanders scorns. They fail to understand that their level of support is no larger, in fact, is smaller, than the number of people who wanted that revolution 50 years ago, and because we were more interested in proclaiming our ideals than in doing the hard work of incremental change, ushered in 50 years of Republicans doing that work, the end result of which is Trump.
29
The moderate Dems were in power for many years. The modern situation is the result of their activities. They were able to prevent Sanders revolution, but were not able to stop the right wing revolution that culminated in the election of DT. Why should we give more chance to the moderates?
6
@Margaret Speas
Respectfully, I'm not sure how Sanders has demonized potential allies. Can you give some examples?
He's drawn a contrast with Biden over social security because he is trying to show how his policies would benefit women and the elderly. He's made it clear in many recent public statements that the party needs to be unified to beat Trump and that he feels infighting is counterproductive. Have I missed something?
In terms of incrementalists, the incremental approach Obama took was stymied for years through all of the legislation (even legislation with bipartisan support) that was blocked by Mitch McConnell. It was an approach Obama had to practically abandon to get things done in his second term.
https://www.democrats.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/in-senator-mitch-mcconnells-legislative-graveyard-senate-republicans-block-commonsense-legislation-to-secure-our-elections-protect-americans-health-care-and-safeguard-pensions-earned-by-working-americans
Taking in to consideration the current state of the Congress under McConnell's leadership, why would an incremental approach work now? Perhaps it's time to try something new.
Incidentally, I'm a woman in my 40s who voted for Obama twice and voted for Hillary when Bernie lost the primary. #bluenomatterwho #partyunity
3
Amen!
1
Sanders is "surging"? Coulda fooled me.
The RCP average shows Sanders with the same level of support that he had last spring. He gets credit for a durable base, but show me any poll - in any state - that shows him with a statistically significant lead.
Voters in IA and NH are justifiably nervous about their responsibilities and commitments in the next couple of weeks. At the end of the day, I'm pretty sure that they are are going to choose a less divisive candidate than Bernie Sanders.
18
@Cousy
Sanders is at least as competitive as Biden everywhere except SC.
Do you see the irony here though?
You choose a less gutsy, less policy-driven candidate and suddenly the electorate is uninspired and you end up with 70% of those under 35 staying home and more than 50% of white women voting for Trump again.
“Show me any poll...”
CNN's latest poll shows Sanders *ahead* of Biden and all the rest! Even the Real Clear Politics average shows Sanders gaining ground over the last several months among the electorate.
Sanders is even gaining among those who prioritize beating Trump. Indeed, he beats Trump in national match-ups by almost as large as Biden does.
Here's for starters.
“If you’re going to surge in a presidential primary contest, a few weeks before the Iowa caucuses is a good time to do it. A new CNN-SSRS poll released Wednesday morning suggests that Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) may be doing just that....
The good news for Democrats is that each of their leading candidates beats Trump in national head-to-head polling (although that’s not a guarantee of future performance). Sanders leads Trump by seven points; Biden leads him by nine...
He [Sanders] has also gained six points with a key group: people who say the most important factor in their vote is beating President Trump in November.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/01/22/story-democratic-primary-continued-uncertainty/
Time to remove ideological, anti-Bernie blinders, and attend to the facts!
Bernie would have beaten Trump badly in 2016.
If the stars align, let’s not overthink it. Let Bernie run and win this time. No more infighting. Whoever gets the nomination must get full support from all Democrats.
58
I think that the fact that Bernie cannot beat Trump is the point.
25
It could not be a fact, because it has not been tried yet. The fact is Hillary who positioned herself as a moderate could not beat Trump. Why should we believe other moderate could?
10
@RjW Democrats will struggle with the Senatorial and Presidential elections until they win back support from the workers. Bernie is the best chance but the price is treating weak people in this country better and that seems like a step to far from many commenters here.
5
Is this election about making our country better or electing a particular person? That's where the similarity is found: The supporters and their cults of personality.
Support the primary candidate of your choice with passion!
But we need unity if we are going to defeat the worst, most corrupt administration ever. Most of us, according to the polls, will be disappointed when our preferred candidate doesn't win. No one is polling above 25%.
I'll vote for Bernie if he wins the nomination. But if the Bernie or bust crowd can't make the same commitment we'll see RBG's replacement chosen by trump and the most vulnerable paying the price of their ideological purity.
The same goes for "centrists" who can't accept a majority decision if Bernie or E. Warren gets the nomination.
Its time to stand up together and get a simple job done for our country and our world.
47
@MIPHIMO It is exactly the cult of the personality that alarms me about some of Bernie’s supporters as their fierce devotion and unwillingness to acknowledge any of his weaknesses strikes me as similar to the same unwavering attachment of many Trump supporters. Both these groups reject thoughtful criticism, instead attacking those who voice it. Please note that I do not include all supporters of these two men in this group. As a liberal Democratic I will vote for the candidate who is nominated whether Bernie or someone else. Positions on issues matter more to me than electing my first choice. On another matter, I hope Sanders supporters will drop the absurd assertion that he would have won in 2016. No one can know or ever will know if that is true. There are reasons to believe the outcome would have been the same. Why keep insisting on this point?
22
@MIPHIMO Bernie is my last choice among the first tier candidates, but I will vote and volunteer for him to stop Trump if he is the nominee.
We will not be a democracy in 4 years if Trump is re-elected. I hope those who consider moderates as no different from Republicans realize that.
7
Because the other side insists that Bernie is not electable. We don't know that it hasn't been tried yet. And 'old' 'grumpy' 'nobody likes him' 'socialist' are hardly a 'thoughtful criticism'
9
Not so simple.
Obviously, one cannot equate Trump's racial and gender-based divisiveness with any of Bernie's policies or attitudes.
But, if Trump is following the traditional right wing populist playbook of dividing by race, gender or any other cultural marker, Bernie is following the traditional left wing populist playbook of dividing people by class.
Who could tell what would happen if, once elected, Bernie was able to place a complete stranglehold on the Democratic Party, as Trump did with republicans? All with the bullying help of the Bernie Bros squad? Factionalism would be the result too with an antagonistic clivage in politics. Who can tell whether we would not see a different kind of ugly rift? I certainly don't think I was able to predict the range of disruption brought up by Trump once elected.
9
@R
Do you disagree that dividing people up by class (at least between those who worth $50M+ and the rest of us) has some relevance now?
Americans are living in a period of extraordinary inequality. Almost all of the financial gains of the past 30 years have gone to the top 1%. The top income tax rate now is less than half what it was in the 1950's. At that time it was common for a corporate chief to earn 20-30 times the wage of the typical worker in that company. Now that ratio is more like 200-300.
The very rich cannot be trusted to spread their wealth equitably through charity and good causes. I trust the government to do the right thing with money far more than I trust a billionaire.
5
@DJ
I am actually a Warren supporter, obviously I share the diagnosis. Just not how to practically go about implementing large scale bureaucratic change in Washington. The concern with Bernie is simple: what will happen and how will he or his supporters react if they are unable to achieve much other than via executive and regulatory powers? And without much democratic elected support in DC? How will he do it without the help of the Obama, the Clinton? We will see then what happens. Not now
1
Bernie isn't dividing people by class... the billionaire class and the power elite have been doing that for decades or, rather, centuries.
There has been an ongoing class warfare against the people... highlighting that doesn't mean that one is engaging in class warfare but, rather, pointing out its pernicious existence!
Don’t shoot the messenger!
121
Sanders is not identical to Trump. He is nonetheless uncompromising. Like Trump, I have never heard him admit to being wrong or in need of advice. He, like Trump has little regard for the REAL diversity of America only his own version. His and his supporters' half-hearted support of the ticket in 2016 contributed to the crisis we have today. There is little evidence to suggest that Sanders will be able to bring this broken and divided country together.
29
It is too much to ask of any politician. How many of them admit their mistakes? Hillary blamed everybody, except herself for the loss. Actually, asking advice and admitting mistakes is seen as a weakness of politicians by voters. Ask Warren.
2
He's admitted he's wrong.
https://commons.commondreams.org/t/i-was-wrong-bernie-sanders-admits-barbara-lee-only-member-of-congress-in-2001-who-had-it-right-on-afghan-war/71408
You're probably used to politicians lying to you 3-5x a day.
3
@HPower
Good grief! Bernie does admit mistakes. Take the claim that someone in his 2016 campaign was being sexually inappropriate with women. Bernie took it seriously and set up safeguards against it happening again. His staff all receive training on sexual harassment, are unionized, and women and minorities earn the same as men. How many other campaigns have done as much for their staff?
Oh, and his campaign goods are made in unionized American shops.
I first had the thought that Sanders reminded me of Trump when I read his interview with the Times for the endorsement. He said his administration would be the best and that he would get his agenda accomplished by rallying people so that Congress couldn't ignore it.
Saying that he would be the best sounded exactly like Trump. Having rallies that you imagine converts a majority of Americans to your side sounds like Trump.
I didn't read anywhere that people were thinking he sounded like Trump before I thought that on my own. Plus, the fact that his supporters, most of them that I have met, will not vote for anyone else, regardless of who gets the nomination, reminds me of a cult.
I hope Sanders falls to Klobuchar, or at least Warren.
37
@Jenna
Yeah, he should have said "My administration won't be the best, but it'll be alright. Don't get your hopes up". Because why should a candidate running for office try to sell themselves as the best possible option?
1
Thank you. I am a Democrat living in Iowa who will caucus for Bernie. I have close friends who are caucusing for Warren, Biden and Buttigieg. We do not try and dissuade each other but recognize we all have the right to vote for whomever we choose.
We do agree on one thing. No matter who gets the nomination we will do anything in our power to ensure a Democrat wins in 2020.
It is unfortunate to see those democrats who are not running try and defame those who are. It is time for Democrats who are puffed up with their own importance to support the party not try and fracture it.
We Democrats need to be united and we get that out here in Iowa.
32
@Elaine Donovan Are you sure the Bernie and his supporters will support another candidate wholeheartedly? He and they did not in 2016.
10
@HPower they did, and had the thanks of HRC and the party at the time to prove it. I’m sure you remember 2008 since it wasn’t very long ago, but please research the PUMA movement among HRC supporters who wouldn’t stomach Obama, and the various dirty tricks they pulled on him, including photos with turbans, inventing the smear of the “Obama Boys”, claiming they needed to stay in later than Bernie did because black candidates can get “assassinated.”
2
@HPower
NO candidate gets "wholeheartedly" support.
The whole idea in a duopoly is who else are you going to vote for? The Lesser of two evils.
Pick ONE, Red or Blue. Hold your nose and pull the lever. Be pragmatic.
In your estimation Bernie and his supporters didn't "support" another candidate.
That flies in the fact that over 80+% of his primary voters went to HRC. A percentage above HRC's PUMA's by a vast amount. It is also inline with all elections. It is a normal percentage. Without our millions of votes, HRC wouldn't of even won the popular vote.
As for Bernie...he set a record by a primary contender on behalf of the nominee. 41 events in more states and cities than HRC did for herself in that timeframe. He wore himself hoarse on her behalf.
https://www.newyorker.com/news/amy-davidson/bernie-sanderss-hard-fight-for-hillary-clinton
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/bernie-sanders-hillary-clinton-eye-post-election-goals/story?id=43300037
https://www.wsj.com/articles/bernie-sanders-packs-schedule-with-campaign-stops-for-hillary-clinton-1475928002
By the by...When Hillary stumped for Pres. O. she did 10, TEN rallies on his behalf.
1
Sanders and Warren are the two politicians who squarely face the ruinous consequences of the corporate capture of American government: corruption, self-dealing, climate chaos, gross wealth disparities, rampant injustice and misery, and the rise of a demagogic monster. Sanders goes further to talk about how imperialist resource wars are the external arm of the same machine, and to say plainly all this deformation of society is inherent in deregulated capitalism that doesn’t actively redistribute wealth and proscribe bribery.
Everything he says holds up our common interests in justice, equality and a livable future. In any sane world, the term “populist” would describe his views. In the bizarro world we inhabit, “populist” describes a lying bully who whose wealth derives from money-laundering and whose political allies are murderous dictators.
We’re facing an unprecedented global crisis. Climate destabilization is intensifying. It lays bare the tragic flaws in our economic model and the true externalized costs of our pursuit of growth and luxury. Here’s the immediate truth: there is no middle ground now. There is no moderate path. There is no incremental change. The world we knew is over. All our possible futures are radically different from the past.
We can push to meet this crisis by uniting, sharing, committing to help one another, or by submitting to authoritarians whose goal is for themselves to stand astride the world’s ruin, imagining they alone can survive it.
36
It is a longstanding fiction of the American elite to cast any mild leftist policy as dangerous “Socialism” that cannot be tolerated or accepted in American democracy. Why? Because they get socialism in the form of tax cuts; they get to make tremendous amounts of wealth from an infrastructure that we *all* pay for; and their resources allow them access to the American dream, so everything looks peachy for them. Meanwhile, in reality, all Bernie Sanders is really pointing out is that we can *easily afford to live as well as the rest of the First World*, where the majority of inhabitants inarguably have better life opportunities, healthcare, vacations, etc. than Americans. But the obfuscation from the establishment continues.
63
Thank you - the younger generation is speaking - listen! Another four years of corruption under Trump and McConnell will mean a loss of Medicare, Social Security, and healthcare. Natural disasters will deplete food sources. Doom and gloom - no reality. No one is talking about another year of a flooded Midwest.No one is talking about the drying up of the Colorado River and the West. Let the voters decide - not the Clintons, not the NYT with its dismal record of endorsements, not the DNC.
79
@Barbara
Barbara, people need to move out of the flood zones, in the Midwest, along the shore, anywhere. Why should the all the taxpayers pay to rebuild beachfront homes? The policy of the federal government paying for anyone's bad luck day, and poor decision making, is not sustainable.
2
Sanders and Trump are not the same, certainly. But what does it say that seemingly not a small number of voters who support the former would choose the latter if “their guy” doesn’t get the nomination? Nothing good, nothing progressive.
16
It says that people are desperate to break the stranglehold that big money has on our politics.
28
@MMB : "But what does it say that seemingly not a small number of [Sanders] voters ... would choose [Trump] if “their guy” doesn’t get the nomination?"
It says that there are people desperate for a change from the status quo, which both of these men, in their own way, represent.
It says that Sanders in a progressive with independent and cross-over appeal.
The Democrats *say* they want a candidate who appeals to the so-called swing voters. But then they react negatively upon learning that Sanders appeals to a small segment of Trump voters.
We need to stop worrying so much about the values of the *voters* and start worrying about defeating Trump. If Sanders can take some votes away from Trump, we should be rejoicing, not mourning the fact that people we don't like (aka people willing to vote for Trump) are voting for *against* Trump.
22
Or it says that there are a lot of angry white men who see themselves in both these men, and would throw citizens of color, among others, under under the bus, rather than make the best choice under a dilemma. Candidate of one’s dreams are great, until the current system says they are not up for nomination. And then most reasonable people, certainly people for whom voting can be a matter of life and death, vote according to what is possible under the system. I do not say this lightly or maliciously but many Sanders supporters absolutely need to get a grip.
16
A President Sanders will be able to get virtually none of his agenda through the Senate. Would a President Sanders be willing to work with Congress on incremental improvements or would Sanders remain uncompromising, leading to existential level gridlock? That being said, I would vote for the moss on a tree stump over Donald Trump, and Bernie Sanders more than meets that criteria.
28
@IMS it’s all irrelevant. Obama was willing to compromise on absolutely everything and we had existential gridlock, unless you count the non-accomplishment of privately run Obamacare (having had family on it, the plans stink) or various drone strikes. The point is that gridlock can only be broken by outside force and primaries, which only Bernie seems to understand.
3
@IMS
A candidate Sanders will motivate the largest voter turnout in history and that means Congressional changes. A Sanders Presidency will motivate mass citizen action in support of his agenda. The times they are a changin,
https://youtu.be/OythsfCi6JA
4
To paraphrase Dostoevsky, all politicians are flawed, they are just flawed in different ways. There is no perfect candidate. Bernie has his issues, to be sure. He’s uncompromising and unwilling to acknowledge our limited ability to fund expansive new social programs.
But ... he has (in my opinion) correctly diagnosed the problem, and at least he cares and is trying to reform our system to better care for the most vulnerable members of our society. Contrast this with Trump, who cares for no one but himself and behaves in a manner that would get a teenager grounded for weeks.
55
@Ed Martin I think you meant to write "Tolstoy."
@Ed Martin
Tolstoy
I paid my $700 health insurance bill the other day.I’m a 63 year old women with no health issues and no prescriptions. This is just flat out robbery.We paid a quarter of a million for college tuition for our 2 children.We saved for retirement and own our home.I’m not looking for a handout. I am looking for a more fair society for my children’s generation. I admire and trust Senator Sanders . The Republican lites of the Democratic Party have had their chance, and failed many of us.Bernie 2020
561
@Nora : I hear you. Our family of 3 (parents in their 40s, kid in elementary school) pay $27K per year for insurance that has a $6500 deductible. Since we seem to meet the deductible every year, we're now paying $33K/year for insurance -- and that doesn't include vision benefits, limits us to care in our state, and only includes meager dental benefits.
Robbery is the best description of this.
106
@Nora
A fair and just society would everyone pay their own insurance premiums. A fair and just society would not encourage every child to acquire a useless quasi-academic degree in liberal arts at the expense of a house. Reading books from the library, and internet resources, provide the same educational value, at no expense. A fair and just society would make it clear to their youth that they must acquire a productive job skill that will pay for their living expenses. Yes, society needs academics, and researchers, but very few of the college graduates go on into the professional academic world, because doctors, engineers, chemists, etc. The vast majority graduate with huge entitlement expectations, college loans, and no marketable skill to pay for it all.
6
@LHP Our oldest has a PhD and is a computer programer for one of the giant tech companies.Our youngest is a Naval Flight Officer.Yes I wish it was as simple as going to the library,which by the way was a weekly activity when our kids were growing up.Despite their academic and job successes they don't know how they will be able to buy a home,or when they will be able to have kids.They are in a much more fortunate situation than most their age.I guess I have too soft a heart,but I think all of our nation's people should have the same opportunities that we and our parents did.We have become an oligarchy,and most of the younger generation does not stand a chance.
79
Stop making believe there is no comparison,
- Both prefer yelling and finger pointing
- Both are dismissive
- Both are divisive
- Both would prefer to fight rather than cooperate and need enemies as foils
- Both prefer "my way" or the highway approaches rather than compromise
- Both apparently appeal more strongly to men, and particularly white men.
- Both appear to have an authoritarian streak and prefer acting unilaterally when it comes to getting what they want done.
- Both have a tenuous relationship with colleagues of the party they belong to and are out of step with their mainstream platforms.
- Both have a core almost cult-like following who feel they can do no wrong.
In short, both are temperamentally akin.
66
@Jonathan Peizer i derived amusement from a great many of your points. (Was "my way or the highway" in this week's talking points memo from Correct The Record? It's _everywhere_ right now.)
But the one that actually made me laugh out loud was the "Sanders is an Authoritarian!" The guy who is reaching out to millions of new/disaffected/disenfranchised voters, exhorting them to get informed and involved? The guy who wants to strengthen labor and empower grassroots activist movements, partnering with them as a promised 'Organizer-in-Chief?'
He is the least authoritarian major national pol I've seen in my lifetime. (Hazy memories of Jackson not withstanding.) Thanks for the morning chuckles.
68
@K kell
There are few positions more authoritarian than "Medicare for All". Bernie want's to abolish private insurers. Does he not realize that private insurance companies are the ones that administer the public health insurance programs? That rigorous accreditation standards must be met for an insurance company to do so? Or is it just more shouting and hand waving to give the appearance he has something important to say about healthcare.
The American healthcare system is undoubtably in need of serious overhaul; the ACA was an enormous step in the right direction- crafted by some of the most accomplished health policy experts in the world, and yet, it still needs major fixing before the big picture goals of improved quality at lower cost can be achieved.
An authoritarian pulling the rug out with a seemingly feeble grasp on how anything works is the worst way to try to deal with it. But, whatever riles up the base, I guess. Just like Trump.
7
They are not akin. As the author of the article said “rudeness does not equal cruelty.” Trump takes pleasure in inflicting pain - Sanders does not.
And this comment is from a centrist.
75
Endless wars, drug prices going up two three ten times inflation for decades on end.Health Insurance cost as much as a home mortgage monthly. Wages are the same decade after decade. I can carry a hundred dollars worth of groceries out to the car in one trip.
If you think Bernie doesn't have a chance against Trump you are fooling yourself.
Bernie Sanders is running against the system that let all this happen.
177
All these countries in Europe are not considered populist, They tax the rich, they have free medical care and good free education. Correcting the injustice created by powerful corporations who hog the wealth and control politics has to be adressed and Bernie Sanders gets that.He is no populist,but a defender of real democracy. 1% owning 90% is not democracy but oligarchy.
187
@raymond jolicoeur . You are unfortunately repeating a common misconception. Yes, European countries (well, maybe excluding Switzerland) taxes its richer inhabitants at a higher rate than the middle and lower income earners, but they also basically tax everyone. Here in the US almost 50% of the population pay no federal income tax which is unheard of in e.g. Germany of France. Health care is not free and is actually more expensive than the rates many of us are paying in the US under employer sponsored health plans. It is correct that those with limited incomes have better access to healthcare in many European countries, especially in the richer countries. There is no free college. Tuition is lower in many European countries and free in some (Germany), but students still have to pay for housing (most universities don't have dorms), food, books, etc.
1
@Jube Oh please, a year in a University in Barcelona costs 1000-2000$, a year in the University of Santa Barbara costs my friend's daughter about 70000$. And don't get me started comparing SB and Barcelona levels of education.
2
@Alex. If your friend was willing and rich enough to pay $70K per year for a (mediocre?) education at SB, good for your friend. There are so many alternatives available in the US to get a similar education for a fraction of the cost (e.g. my son got a BA in Global Security and Intelligence for a total of ~$10K in tuition here in AZ through a combination of community college and university). But that's not the point. I already commented that tuition is lower in many European universities, so I am not sure what your "oh please" is all about. I am getting tired of people regurgitating the same stereotypes about the free education, healthcare, etc. in Europe when they omit the whole picture. It is not free, someone has to pay for it. And it ain't just the top 10% in Europe who pay for it with their taxes.
1
Maybe it is his integrity. Beyond that rare characteristic, the vast majority support his agenda and understand that he is incorruptible and the only politician who will stand up to the enormous power of corporations to do what needs doing in addressing public health and the climate catastrophe. Sanders represents the best of our country and a return to civilized norms and the hard won gains off working people and minorities. If we as a nation have a future, it is the progress that Sanders -- with the rest of us -- represent.
108
and just like Trump he has not really ever accomplished anything - just talk, talk, talk. Look at his record. The only thing he's done successfully is run for office.
26
@gizarap this is the most tired trope about Sanders yet. Check out his Congressional record. He has cosponsored hundreds of bills. More than 90% of the time his votes coincided with those of Hillary Clinton. Do you consider the ACA or working with Mc Cain to improve Veterans Services as negligible? How about his resistance to the Iraq war and his sponsorship of the resolution against war in Yemen?
4
@gizarap
I feel bad repeating the same comment over and over, but it is easier than constantly refuting these lies with fresh words. SO...
What has Bern accomplished:
Wrote 'n passed an $11billion HC Clinics Bill, serving an estimated 30 million citizens in 11000 rural and urban locals, ea. yr.
Negotiated the $5 billion bipartisan Landmark Veterans Bill of '14.
Recently helped workers in the Fight for $15 win a doubling of wages. 350,000 Amazon workers, 60,000 Disney workers, 20,000 Wholefoods workers and more.
Restored $320 million in pension benefits to 130,000 IBM workers.
Passage of the first and only audit of the Federal Reserve in '10.
Passage of $3.2 billion Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy grants.
Stopping bailed-out banks from replacing US workers with low wage guest workers.
Stopping the Postal Service from closing up to 15000 post offices and over 100 mail processing plants, ending Saturday mail and slashing over 100,000 jobs.
Passage of the National Affordable Housing Trust Fund Act.
Raising wages of Federal contractors to a min. of $10.10 hr. or more.
Created the Northeast Home Heating Oil Reserve.
Passed the bipartisan Yemen War Powers Act. A first in 45 years.
As The Amendment King. He passed more amendments under heavily partisan Republican controlled gov. than any other congresswo/man.
Here is a good story, and why you often don't hear or read about Bern and his bills... https://youtu.be/C08mO4BxRBs?t=10m20s
Research gizarap
3
@gizarap
We have heard this endlessly. It came from the Clinton campaign. Need I say more?
1
Sorry, but I agree with Michael Moore. Bernie and Donald are appealing to two sides of the same coin - a group who feels disenfranchised and frustrated at the establishment.
33
The point, though, is not who they are appealing to, but what they are doing with that appeal. In that, Sanders and Trump could hardly be more different, as this article rightly argues.
56
@Dale
Sanders is an authentic populist. Trump, like most fascists, is a false populist. They are not two sides of the same coin. One is gold, the other a counterfeit sham. Beyond shallow nonsense, the truth is in their records.
As to what constitutes demagoguery is a matter of opinion it is always subjective viewed through the prism of the subject. Take away the subjective filters and what do you hear. I hear vilification of classes of society, I hear attacks against the media, against journalists who do not report favorably about the candidate.
In one case it is fake media and the other it is corruption and media owned by corporations and billionaires.
I also hear Bernie calling political opponents as unfit to lead or corrupt because they disagree with his playbook from the communist manifesto.
Maybe all this is OK is for some people who are absolutely convinced in their ideas of right and wrong, but to me that is fanaticism.
His ideas of socialism nothing new, before Denmark he said that the American dream was more alive and society more equal in places like Venezuela and Argentina. After their collapse he has latched onto Denmark and Sweden.
10
Who disagrees with: a.) Big Corporations rule this country. b.) The tax laws are in their favor. c.) Their CEO’s make outrageous salaries, ( would like someone to explain to me why they deserve 300+ times what the average worker makes), while lower level employees are struggling to get ahead.
The discrepancies grow wider each year. Addressing this problem with small steps at a time, as the centrist Democrat’s would have you believe, isn’t the answer to “making America great again”. We need to return to the tax policies and government-supported programs of post-WWII to make it possible for the next generations’ middle class to live the American Dream.
Sanders’ message has not wavered on this subject. He does not take big corporate donations, and corporations only donate to candidates who will make policy in their favor. I have supported Warren as well, but I am afraid she is already making concessions.
By the way, I am a woman, 60, and own a small business with under 10 employees.
354
While the average CEO may make 300 times a workers salary, the median CEO makes something like 1000 times a workers salary. In the largest tech companies this ratio approaches 10,000 times. These are historic inequalities that have never appeared before. I guess it’s nice to own a government and make your own tax laws.
21
@Bobotheclown How much more should the risk taker make? You do know that most small businesses fail in this country.
I don't disagree with many of your specific points. But in the general case, YOU need to STOP telling other people how to look at things! Any two things can be compared to find some similarities; even the canonical apple and orange.
12
@MadManMark
Chill mad man. This is the opinion section. It is precisely the designated place for telling other people how to look at things.
Surely one of the biggest differences between them is that Bernie cannot be bought - not with flattery, not with fame, or power or anything. Maybe even bigger is that Bernie knows who he is, whereas Trump has never tried to find out who he is - he just knows he's perfect.
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@Ruskin
I think many, many people around the world would breath a sigh of relief if Bernie became president.
He is honest and will pull not out of agreements unilaterally. He is consistent and won't make impulsive moves that destabilize a vulnerable world. He will work cooperatively with other nations in good faith for the benefit of all. He respects life and will be a good steward of the earth.
Gee, that really is scary - if you are a military contractor or fossil fuel executive. For the rest of us? Not so much.
12
@Ruskin
@Ruskin
Not so fast. Sanders refuses to disclose some big donors to his tax-exempt non-profit, Our Revolution.
https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2020/01/22/us/politics/ap-us-election-2020-sanders-our-revolution.html?searchResultPosition=1
Sanders may well be far dirtier than most of his doe-eyed followers wish to admit.
2
@Ruskin
Not so fast. Sanders refuses to disclose some big donors to his tax-exempt non-profit, Our Revolution.
https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2020/01/22/us/politics/ap-us-election-2020-sanders-our-revolution.html?searchResultPosition=1
Sanders may well be far diritier that most of his doe-eyed followers wish to admit.
1
I would argue that Bernie IS working for the 100 percent. After all his Medicare for all and free college plans do not exclude the billionaire class. Climate change affects all of us. He is simply trying to return some sense of balance to what is unsustainable economic inequality.
363
Some comment that the Bernie supporters are to young, they haven't lived, have no life experience, lack diversity, don't stand a chance in an election, so forth and so on. Bernie isn't liked by anyone. Don't believe a word of it. He is Trumps worst nightmare. When the CEO makes more in one day than the average worker makes in one year that is a problem. When these same CEO's outsource/offshore countless jobs for cents on the dollar that is a problem. When insurance and drug companies price people out the market and seniors have to decide between prescriptions and groceries that is a problem. When a single medical event leave families destitute that is a problem. When a Military Industrial Complex has both parties in their back pocket that is a problem. When the youth of America has known nothing but war and endless foreign intervention you know it is time for radical change. Not some middle of the road philosophy that procrastinates. They talk a good ballgame and most are decent people but they never deliver. Did I mention climate change... The road to change is at the ballot box. Some would attempt to put the ballot box (Republican Elite) out of reach or male it difficult or suppress. Nothing could be more dangerous to our freedom. Now is the time to find that ballot box. Its time for the people to take back their country from the entrenched corrupt establishment elites. Vote for Bernie Sanders!
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@Citizen
Absolutely, Trump is afraid of Sanders. What can Trump say to Sanders that hasn't already been said? And Trump knows that Sanders will just respond by bluntly, very bluntly, returning to the facts of Bernie's message which do resonate with the majority of Americans: The billionaire class--like Trump--have way too much power and we feel it every day, from rising healthcare costs, to college debt, to wages that don't keep up with inflation, and on and on. A Sanders primary win would be a disaster for Trump.
114
I am a senior citizen and I have supported Bernie for years. I am part of his base that seems to be invisible to the pundits. Bernie is the only candidate who has supported social security all of his life and the retired know it. Their are enough over 55 people out there to put anyone in office if they try. With Bernie they finally have someone who gets it and they will come out. He will win because he has both the young and old on his side.
23
@Bret
The centrist cry:
They will call Bernie a (gasp!) socialist!
First, they call all Democrats socialist - even Obama. Second, that is rich coming from Putin's poodle whose father-in-law was a registered communist.
No, Trump stands to lose more voters to Bernie than he ever will to Biden. Trump voters see Biden as another of those hated Democrats they will never support; they see Bernie as someone of neither tribe. They can vote for him without feeling disloyal to Republicanism itself.
5
Mr. Mueller rightly points out that,”It’s ( Democracy’s) genius consists in the idea that it’s fine to have divisions and open conflicts.” It’s fine for Trump to keep blaring that the the economy is at its best ever, employment figures up, and Bernie to point out that in this great economy ,school children are hungry, many people are homeless, many have no health care and the environment is in grave danger. Bernie thinks WE should do something about it.
So, no problem . Just vote for one or the other. Get others out to vote.
16
Centrist Democrat presidents have led this country for 16 of the last 28 years and skillfully created incremental change for the American people- for those other 12 years our presidents have been decisively and unabashedly denizens of the right. The change they have implemented feels like a tidal wave in comparison.
The problem here may be that centrist presidents just don't inspire the passion needed to get voters out in the mid-terms so they can't hold the congress.
Obama lost power after passing the ACA, his single great "incremental" accomplishment that did almost nothing to get the profiteers out of our medical care. This incredibly talented politician lost the power to accomplish much else for the next 6 years.
Maybe a centrist is what is needed to defeat Trump, but what concerns me is that a more revolutionary president may be the only prescription for what now ails our politics and planet.
The media defines Sander's policies as being left wing. Perhaps that's really the crux of the problem.
Only in America.
188
@alan haigh -- "incremental" changes by supposed centrists aren't doing the trick -- because they are supported by the people who benefit from the status quo. Whether that's climate change, getting rid of the pharmaceutical racket, the military-industrial taxation racket, higher education racket, or the healthcare racket, only a candidate like Sanders has a chance to do the right thing.
3
@Alan haigh
"Maybe a centrist is what is needed to defeat Trump..."
On the other hand, maybe the centrist nominee will predictably lose, just like the last centrist nominee:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jan/04/joe-biden-electable-trump-2020-election
2
The people who voted Obama in punished him two years later for not keeping his promises. It was clear by then that he was just another DINO who could not be trusted. Once he lost the support of the people his administration was essentially nullified by the Senate. And at no time during his disastrous last six years did he realize what he did or ask for forgiveness from the people. Instead he just kept drifting to the right in hope of getting a few Republicans to support his watered down centrist bills. The Republicans rejected him as everyone but he knew they would. Had Bernie been on the ballot in 2016 he would have been the winner as most polls show. But Hillary was simply another Obama and so was rejected. Biden is yet another Obama and he even brags about it. He will be rejected as well because Trump at least has the brains to lie to the base. Biden tells them what he really thinks and it is too horrible to contemplate.
2
Please run Bernie against Trump. A millionaire socialist with 3, count em, 3 homes. Why won't Bernie invest his excesses into "to those in need"? Socialist leaders always become wealthy even in the poorest of countries. What the US would change is having many wealthy in government and private life now would become the private side taking a huge hit and the government side would blossom. Do I think someone like Bernie or Elizabeth should be making all the decisions. That is why I want you to run them. After you have offered EVERYTHING for free, what do you have left of our society to bargain with?
9
@William Grey Oh dear. Can we please retire this '3 home' nonsense. He must live in Vermont, as he is their Senator. He spends a huge portion of the year in DC - and has a modest condo. His '3rd' home is a Cabin which was essentially a trade-up from a house inherited by Jane.
If a 70-year-old who has earned 150K a year for the last 20 or so years didn't have around a million in assets, it would be more shocking. Folks who bought 200,000 dollar homes in California in the 80's are also millionaires.
Finally - let's address this FREE stuff nonsense: As a late-boomer, early x-er, I enjoyed free vaccinations at school throughout my childhood (as the government felt there was sufficient concern to make sure all kids were protected.) Growing up in a rural farm community, the schools all offered free breakfast and subsidized lunch (because the Govt determined in the WWII that it was in the national interest to have kids healthy enough to serve should the need arise.). And as a high-school graduate, I attended a public university, funded by tax dollars, because my state government felt it was in the best interest of the country to have an educated populace. It isn't a matter of 'free' - it's a matter of where best to invest our shared resources.
72
@William Grey Bernie has held a white collar job with a very comfortable salary for at least 40 years. This job also requires constant travel, oftentimes with family. 3 homes? Have you ever seen these homes? They're modest to say the very least. Government side would blossom? Government employees are paid through uniform salary steps based on experience and education. Offering "everything for free?" College tuition at public universities would cost $81B paid for by taxing Wall Street. This is the same amount as Trump's pentagon budget increase this past year. The Wall Street Bailout in 2008 cost around $700B and a sizable amount of that went to executive bonuses. So with all due respect.. What are you talking about?
14
@Terry @Shaun Are you both arguing that Sanders is not a millionaire? Have you noticed that since 2015 and 2020 his campaign shifted from railing against the "millionaires and billionaires" to only against the "billionaire class"? There's no coincidence. Where did Bernie make his million-plus? Senate salary? Yeah, nope.
1
I live in a fairly conservative part of the country. From what I observe, Bernie Sanders is the only one who can go into coal country and talk to the people about their struggles. While some may have a misperception of him initially as this radical "socialist", after they listen to him, they seem to realize that he's one of them and has their best economic interests at heart. Even those who still don't buy into what he is saying, acknowledge that they like him because he is at least honest and genuine, a personality trait so foreign to your typical conniving, scheming politician (even those that one may support) that it like a breath of fresh air, and as a result, there is a respect given to him that I don't see extended to other politicians from an opposition party. What is also very telling to people is to watch his own party elites attack him with obvious disingenuous smears. It tells them that he's on to something and doing something right and it gets their interest in what he has to say. I see Bernie Sanders uniting the American people to take back their democracy from the oligarchs and the monied elects who have structured the system to their benefit at the expense of so many. Maybe that is why polls show him with the highest approval rating of any politician, from either party.
627
“His own party elites” are not attacking him. He is not a member of the Democratic Party but a Democratic Socialist, which is perfectly fine. (I admire and identify with many of his policies and positions, that are beyond America’s effective two-party system.) Except Sanders attacks the Dems until he has to use their platform to run his presidential campaigns. Perhaps party elites find that at the very least, self-serving.
30
@MMB
It’s interesting how the Democrats embrace Sanders as one of their own when it comes to him caucusing with them and when they ask for, and he willingly gives, his vote. A Democratic voting record that is ironically more consistently Democratic than so-called Democrats vote. I’m referring to all those “Democrats “ that have voted with Trump and the Republicans so many times. Funny how they aren’t called out for that. In fact, they are given committee leadership positions (think of Joe Manchin as the poster boy of what I’m referring to) So while Sanders may not be a Democrat, officially, his policies represent what the Democrats use to stand for (go back and watch JFK talking about the need for a single payer healthcare system) and strengthening unions and your average middle class worker. That’s the Democratic Party I remember, not this Republican-lite, neoliberalism that it has morphed into.
88
@FXQ
Spot on. He would have won in 2016, although that's a low bar; anyone other than Clinton would have won.
He can also win this time around, but unlike 2016 he may be the only one who can.
29
Sanders is not a direct threat to democracy, but he is an indirect threat. If he is the nominee of the Democratic party or runs independently, he will insure the reelection of Trump. That outcome will result in the end of democracy as we know it.
21
@Eric Richter
But nominating a moderate, "mainstream" politician is what got us Trump in the first place.
134
@Mike Not just nominating a moderate, but having a moderate "mainstream" president for 8 years also contributed to Trump.
24
@Mike
And your comment is the reason I consider Bernie and his supporters to be equivalent to trumpists, even though politically Sanders and trump are opposites. If to you, Clinton and all Republicans are the same, as to Naderitees Gore and W were the same then this is a fatal problem for the world
5
I have long voted for Sanders and support much of his agenda, but his inability to admit fault and self-reflection has long concerned me.
His political style is very ends-justify-the-means. His use of the Democratic party when it serves him is one example. In Vermont, he has long run on the Democratic ticket, won the primary and then declined the spot. Why? Because he lost decades ago in a split vote and it helps HIM, but hurts the party. While he claimed taking the high road, he was slow to respond when the Bernie Bros made horrible attacks because it benefited him. The recent low attacks on Warren and Biden happen to every campaign, but Bernie's sheepish acknowledgement and quick "move on" is typical of his lack of ownership.
His issues and conviction speak for many (me, too), but his inability to listen to POC, women and anyone who disagrees should create pause prior to voting for him instead of other progressives.
55
Neither Obama nor Hillary were perfect either. Bernie works well with others. He doesn't smooze as well, he doesn't want to. He wants to represent the needs and wants of the people. Look at his platform. And he has spoken about small steps to attain all of our goals. And not only if you're rich, but for everyone.
141
@Tom Triumph that's not my experience with Bernie re: POC and women. Case in point, Nina Turner, his support of women's health, his past civil rights actions. Bernie is hardly a god, but I am tired of these broad brushstrokes painting him with unsubstantiated negativity.
130
@Tom Triumph You do realize that he has now taken the lead over Biden among people of color?
As to using the Democratic ticket to run in Vermont - well, as long as we have a duopoly, that is about the only way an independent can win. If you have a problem with this - I understand, but I think the solution is to move towards a non-party or multiple-party solution. Our current two-party system is no longer functioning.
42
I would take issue with only one premise discussed by the author that is not an essential part of his argument, but a general misconception: namely, that Sanders is divisive.
Sanders' message is not divisive. He does not pit people against one another, except in regard to the outrageous disparity in the distribution of wealth. And then he's representing the 99%, not the 1%.
The divisiveness comes from the Centrist, Establishment Left that doesn't want to change the status quo. While many Clintonites still complain that Sanders' supporters didn't vote for Hillary in 2016, I see far more Centrists say they could never vote for Sanders in 2020. In fact, some of Sanders supporters who didn't vote for Hillary were never going to. They were Trump supporters that Bernie took away with his populist message. And in that the author is correct. That's where the Trump and Sanders overlap, and where Sanders has the advantage relative to other Democratic candidates of being able to reduce the size of Trump's base by appealing to a significant enough percentage of his voters. And significant could be 3,4 or 5%. That's all it could take to swing the election.
388
@allseriousnessaside
If Bernie just gave one house away, of his 3, or a small portion of his millions away, he would be more believable. He isn't living the truth of the socialism he espouses.
20
@William Grey
He does not espouse giving away everyone's wealth and then sharing it. He advocates a fair tax system, including taxes on large inheritance. He is not against people making money. He is against unreasonably low minimum wages and unreasonable big tax breaks for the wealthy (including himself).
All Congress people who live far from D.C. have to have at least two homes. One in their home state, one in DC. Many middle class also have a vacation/summer home. Good for them -- as long as they are willing to pay fair taxes on their earnings.
To criticize Bernie for things he does not stand for is not fair. And when you examine his policies they are not very radical -- they are fair, which perhaps today seems radical. But it is not. Bernie's desire for democracy is refreshing, not dangerous.
217
@William Grey
He's not a socialist. He's a Democratic Socialist. He has never been against being rich or making money on the market. He is against a country having its political policies and economy geared towards favoring the the super-rich at the expense of everybody else. He has spent his entire career fighting for that message, and there is no reason not to believe, except for silly little observations taken out of context, like--"but, wait how could Bernie be against the billionaire class ruling the country when Bernie has over a million dollars!"
105
I believe it is uniquely Sanders supporters who "will only vote for the right kind of Democrat" And therein lies the problem. The rest of us will vote for any Democrat running. His current attacks on Biden, given the extreme danger in which the republic finds itself, are an expression of ego, not patriotism.
58
@Safta
I’m tired of people lumping sanders supporters into one category. Everyone I know who supported him in 2016 voted for Hillary, perhaps begrudgingly but they did. We will do the same in 2020 if necessary.
258
This is a myth. Every Sanders supporter I know who was eligible to vote voted for Hillary in 2016 -- although some had to figuratively "hold their nose" to do so. This myth is just part of the die-hard Clintonite "everyone was to blame, except for Hillary" narrative to explain the 2016 defeat. It has never been substantiated by any serious research.
252
@Safta Not true. My household supported Sanders in the primary and voted Clinton in 2016. Pretty sure that was the norm amongst liberal dems.
126
There are two very revealing videos one can watch to see just how much the Democratic Party has changed over the last 50 to 60 years. One is a film clip of Franklin Roosevelt laying out his plan for a Worker’s Bill of Rights in his final inaugural address. The other is of John Kennedy laying out a bold plan for his medical care program at Maddison Square Garden. JFK’s plan is no different that what Bernie Sanders is proposing today. And FDR’s bill of rights pitch goes much much further.
These are not “crazy” or “radical” ideas, when one measures these against what the party used to stand for before it turned it’s back on the poor, the working class, the elderly, unions, and peace, in favor of the barons, the bankers, big Pharma, for profit war and for profit prisons.
The people want their representation, and that is what the punditry class fails to grasp when they call Bernie “radical” and “unelectable”. I think the polls are beginning to bear this out.
802
@Matthew Gray
I grew up in the 1960s and 70s. It was considered perfectly normal for one parent without a high school degree to be able to support a family on one salary. College was affordable—in my case going to Brooklyn College was tuition free. Health insurance was provided by nonprofit organizations and paid for by employers negotiated by unions. Admittedly not everyone got a fair share. African Americans in particular were systematically excluded from much of the prosperity. This was wrong but what came later was worse.
By the time I hit the working world things had started to change. Profit became the be all and end all. Greed as the saying went “is good”. Corporations aided and abetted by politicians of both parties abandoned American workers in search of cheap labor devastating entire regions. Reagan cut taxes for the rich. The safety net had begun to develop holes. Politicians spoke of privatizing social security. We saw a massive transfer of wealth from the poor and middle class to the rich.
Bernie Sanders, in my opinion, seeks to swing the pendulum back from a society where the winners get all and the losers fight for crumbs That is a very good thing.
202
@Matthew Gray
Exactly correct. The 50 year campaign by wealthy right-wing interests have pushed the dialogue in this country so far to the right that policies considered fundamental to the rest of the civilized world (universal health care) are considered here to be crazy fantasies.
136
@Matthew Gray The Democrats have been moved so far to the right I would say that any changes look extreme! FDR and the new deal is what Democrats should stand for and be about. The have's are doing just fine.
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I agree that Sanders does not pose a threat to the Republic. The populists of the right are far more dangerous to the nation as a whole than anyone involved in electoral politics on the left could ever be.
But in terms of personal pain caused in day-to-day life, the angry old men of the left have a lot to answer for. I'd say that when it comes to misery inflicted by people actually in the room with you, angry men of the left have done far more to hurt me than any Republican. (Republicans inflict misery at a distance.) And I think it's a problem when people who claim to be working for the good of "the people" in the abstract behave badly to the specific people who are standing right there.
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@Maria
Your comment is so vague and personal that absent examples of how, by whom and the context you've been hurt, it's mere spleen venting, and therefore meaningless.
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@Maria
Never forget that if you wish to measure pain in human life, governments have no equal. By embracing socialism you are giving up on doing things yourself and you are only accepting what others put upon you. If things get tough, Venezualia, people die. I desire smaller government with less restrictions and control. I believe in Free Will. Something left out of socialism. It is the most Progressive idea in history and practiced by a small part of the worlds populations. Be tough and stand up for the Individual!
@Maria What an extraordinary declaration of privilege it is to be able to say that the policies of the Republican Party, which have done so much to enervate the middle classes and to drive the working classes to early deaths, have had less effect on you personally than an angry left-wing man who was in the room with you. I don’t know what happened to you, and if it was a terrible thing, then I am sorry for you - but it is difficult to put this into any meaningful comparison with the loss of mental health, healthcare, jobs, good schooling, etc. etc. etc. for *tens of millions* of Americans since 1980 under the aegis of Republican (and “Republican Lite”) policy, except to suggest that your perspective on this is wildly myopic.
Sanders is working with all his might -as he has been for decades- to get the 100 million citizens who are disenfranchised and disaffected informed, involved, asking questions of our leaders, voting, running for office themselves at all levels.
(Republicans have the reputation for voter suppression, but I've seen plenty in my 50 years that leaves me pretty disgusted with both parties on that general score.)
Sanders is not a danger to Democracy: he's got a cure for our ailing, lopsided system: And it's not him; it's us.
"Not Me, Us" isn't just his/our campaign slogan. It's the sincere belief, the motor that keeps us going.
I'm surprised to find I still have a small flickering light of hope in me. With Sanders, we can unite as a country of decent people with big dreams and plenty of know-how to make our families, our communities, and our planet healthier and more just.
This woman is all in for Sanders. (My 80 yr old mother wants to get involved now. She's wondering if there's a way a Silent Gen volunteer can make calls specifically to Boomers to talk some sense into those youngins?)
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@K kell
The Sanders campaign -- or I should say "our" campaign -- has made millions of calls and has a goal of 10 million calls by Feb 3. There is room for every kind of caller and in Spanish and Chinese too. Your mom sounds smart to think of talking to other older voters and I'm sure there is a channel through which she could do that. There are lots of local phone banks or you can do it in your own home, signing up for shifts on the website. Cheers and good wishes to you and your mom!
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I am a boomer and I have been talking up Bernie since before the last election. I think I am pretty persuasive but I have not been able to crack through the simple mindedness that has taken over the country. Even liberals spout some of the old Fox News garbage now that they see that Bernie is leading in the polls. I have come to believe that if someone is so thick as to not support Bernie by now that they will never come around. But that is human nature. What is also true is that Bernie has never been on a national ballot and so the phenomenon of his vast potential base has never been seen. The pundits will again be shocked when Bernie wins in a landslide. They will ask how the polls could have been so wrong. The answer is plain to everyone who can see. The people have not had a candidate who represented them for 50 years and when one shows up they notice.
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@K kell
You and your mother would be VERY welcome to volunteer you voice and actions to the Sanders campaign.
There are LOTS of different ways to lend a shoulder to the wheel. Your mother could easily find a fit that suites her. From tabling to texting to calls and even door knocking. It's fun and a great way to meet liked minded people. You and your mother would have a great time.
https://act.berniesanders.com/signup/volunteer
https://berniesanders.com/volunteer/
https://www.peopleforbernie.com/volunteer/
Hope to see ya there.
Not Me, Us
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