I can take a pretty good guess at the race, gender, and political inclination of the majority of folks there.
30
@Walrus Carpenter
You'd be surprised.
5
Liberals have a lot of power through reason, money, and votes. They just need to deploy it strategically and not be afraid to show force.
14
I would be willing to bet that close to 90% of the protesters carrying firearms couldn't say what gun control measures were in any of the bills under consideration. They seem to think the governor has plans to confiscate all weapons.
54
Most gun deaths are suicides.
Red flag laws are designed to allow family or concerned others to take action to prevent this by having the state take away guns temporarily. A court reviews the application to do this so that the grounds for the temporary confiscation can be verified.
I'm waiting to see a sign touting the Constitution right to kill yourself with a gun while psychotic or otherwise mentally incompetent. Because guns get used a lot more for that than for self-defense.
4
Over the last few decades, gun rights legislation has been under the control of a powerful extremist group, the NRA. All is black and white for them, either you support their legislation or you are against guns, against the constitution, against keeping the country safe from a potentially tyrannical government. You are anti-American.
These are not people you can work with, negotiate with, come up with fair and logical solutions with. It's what they dictate or you are the enemy.
Lost in this, of course, is common sense. If the AR-15 and other assault style rifles are going to be legal should there be an age limit for their use? Should there be real background checks to make certain criminals, terrorists and the mentally ill don't have access to them? Should you need proper training in their use and care before being allowed to own one? Should you be allowed to publicly carry a loaded one? These are all sane and logical questions that most Americans would understand should be debated but are all no-go territory for the NRA.
America needs to be able to discuss, negotiate and debate issues around guns within the framework of our democracy. When the most powerful force around that issue is only willing to dictate their own terms to everyone else, our democracy is no longer functioning as it was designed to function.
1
Why do I keep seeing USA Police Officers getting killed frequently on our news? Police are armed with guns. Oh, there's an element of surprise in any situation. Plus the general public is getting better armed (Assault Weapons) than our local Police. Where does this end!? Go Virginia Dems passing common sense gun laws. My Grown and Grand Children will be safer.
3
You don't punish and disarm 330 million good people, for the actions of a very few.
The onus is on the People.
Too often, someone close to the perpetrator knows something is wrong, and they notify no one. Sometimes people just don't execute policies that are already in place (like psychologists not reporting to background check facilities, or school personnel buzzing someone into the building who has been banned...both happened in the Parkland school shooting).
These acts could be easy to stop, IF the people that know the perpetrators, or know of them, would act. Contact someone if you think an individual is on the brink.
This is all on WE THE PEOPLE showing some guts and initiative.
The second amendment exists in our Constitution so that The People can protect themselves from abuse, especially from a corrupt or oppressive government.
It is the only reason the second amendment is there, not for hunting and target shooting...not for fun.
Banning guns is not the answer. It's an old saying and absolutely true: Guns don't kill, people do.
3
Photo of armed demonstrators:
Is this our "well regulated Militia"?
6
22000 demonstrators including bus-ins and visitors. An average NFL game gets 66000 attendees. This proves that the demonstrators were nothing more than a lunatic fringe.
8
Golly, we need to alert the military! These fellas are keen for recruitment! They've already got some pieces of their day uniforms in camo, tan and green. They got up early, marched around a bit, totin' their weapons and pieces of equipment one might find in the military, chest shields, knee pads, radios, vests with lots of pockets and the American flag for heaven's sake. Jeepers, one rarely finds this level of enthusiasm for military drag in such numbers! Local recruiters take notice! These fellas are primed to sign up and serve!
9
Interesting only trouble/arrest was of a women who covered her face ANTIFA like and refused to take it off when asked by the police.
This is the state of the right and in particular, the Trump cult: they stand up for the “rights” of these people to march, armed, on a state capitol after they lose an election. But when Americans in their temples, churches, mosques, places of business, schools, Walmarts, etc. are murdered by right-wingers, they are silent.
4
Build armories, replete with firing ranges, where gun owners can store and fire their weapons. Weapons do not leave the premises. User fees cover building and security costs.
Our military requires them. Why not require the rest of the gun-owning population to do the same?
2
Someone once told me in all seriousness he drove better when he was drunk. Laws based on reality(science/statistics) protect us. We need accurate statistics and further studies on gun safety, which then need to be reviewed and acted upon, just like real adults would do. Firearms manufacturers need to be held accountable just like any other manufacturer. This false narrative based on cultivated ignorance fear and hatred needs to be addressed just like any other health issue.
3
The question that needs to be asked is should extremists and the mentally unbalanced have access to guns? The gun advocates in Virginia just answered yes.
8
If a bunch of untrained and unregulated masked men wearing body armor and carrying high powered rifles and dozens of rounds of ammunition marching through city streets doesn't call for new gun laws, what does?
Can you imagine if a car back-fired or if someone had accidentally fired their weapon? I think these men unwittingly just proved how essential new gun laws are.
17
Is the US a dangerous and violent country or what?!
With the blood of thousands of innocent Americans on his hands, Scalia created a monster. Legislating from the bench, in Heller v. DC Scalia reinterpreted the 2nd Amendment despite the fact that it has been properly interpreted by the federal courts for over 200 years. It was the very first time in over 2 centuries of American history that there became a new constitutional right of individuals to own guns, including even assault weapons (weapons of war).
Scalia's bloody legacy: Americans dying at the point of a gun every single day, death and injury from mass shootings about once a week. So then 22,000 people rally? For what? Do they seek the constitutional right to threaten or kill everyone they don't like? For most of those who rally who are nearly White and all Trump supporters, that would include people of color, the LGBTQ Community, Muslims, immigrants and most definitely Democrats!
America has gone from great (not perfect, but great) to shameful in just a generation. And with an armed, nation-wide mob behind him, Trump is about to become America's first dictator. The proliferation of guns is helping him do that.
14
I would like to know how many mass shootings were carried out by NRA card members. I know all these mass shootings are horrible, but can anyone tell us, with all the rules in place now, how anyone can commit a mass shooting. Short of just banning all guns, what can really be done? I'm a USMC vet. Enjoyed my time in but I don't own a weapon.
1
What are these people doing? How miserable are their lives that this is their number one priority? It's absolutely insane; and that there are so many of them it makes me feel less safe in this country. The "I'm not a criminal" doesn't mean they won't ever be. They're a bunch of overheated hotheads that are just itching for some justification to become vigilante soldiers in some war against the phantoms in their own heads.
11
Very important to uphold the 2nd amendment at all costs while destroying and violating every other amendment as our current administration does. Mass carnage is protected in this country. I love the armed-to-the-teeth white males with face masks and camouflage parading around like it's a video game-they make me feel oh so safe. I'm sure they will protect us. Our lives depend on it.
7
Why do so many view a peaceful protest to protect individual rights so threatening? These weren’t monsters. They are normal every day people who have jobs and families and contribute to society. Their one fatal flaw in the eyes of liberals is the desire to protect gun ownership rights for the Americans who have never harmed another human with a gun and have never used a gun to commit a crime. Infantilizing people simply for being gun owners isn’t a good look.
2
Boys with toys.
5
Just a thought. . .
You want to carry a gun because the other guy might carry a gun. Ok.
Then what happens if the other guy isn't allowed to carry a gun, do you still need one?
1
As these folks attack the 'liberal elite', they fail to recognize that liberals are asking for an end to mass slaughter with military grade weapons. No one is taking your hunting rifle or hand gun. We very simply want to stop school shootings and terrorist attacks like the Las Vegas massacre. As NRA execs use member money to fund lives of luxury, they stir up anger toward the liberals as a distraction, their weapon of choice in these discussions. Can't we all just get along?
6
My brother lives in Florence, CO. He said that the town's mayor allowed open-carry until the citizens of the town pushed back. They said open-carry is nothing more than intimidating and stoking fears among the citizens of Florence. The town no longer allows open-carry.
9
In 2016 alone nearly 500 Americans were killed accidentally by firearms.
It isn't always about bad v. good, is it?
Our collective lack of responsibility toward our right to keep and bear arms is killing us. The 2nd amendment was written by men and reinterpreted by men of a different age and sense in order to justify a lifestyle, not a right.
7
The arms that are being referenced in the second amendment ARE military weapons.
The second amendment exists in our Constitution so that The People can protect themselves from abuse, especially from a corrupt or oppressive government.
It is the only reason the second amendment is there, not for hunting and target shooting...not for fun.
Before you tell me the people in this country could not stand up to our military, consider this.
US Population: 330 million
Guns in the hands of private citizens: about 330 million
Active duty military: <1.4 million
U.S. land area: about 3.8 million square miles
To control a country, not defeat an opposing military force, you need people on the ground. Our military just isn't big enough to defeat the rest of the country, if it came to that.
If there aver was revolt against the government, you have to figure that a lot of military personnel would desert and fight with the people.
Remember, our military could not subdue Afghanistan, Iraq, or Viet Nam. We didn't try Japan's home islands. We dropped the bomb instead.
There are no such things as inalienable rights in this world, except within the context of our Constitution, and even those aren't real. You show me an "inalienable" right, and I'll show you a right that can be taken away.
The only rights that really exist are those that are given by others, and those that you take and defend for yourself.
As for the illegitimate use of firearms, that is a societal problem.
3
@Raz Be advised that at end-2017, Americans owned about 411,000,000 firearms, military items excluded. See U.S. Department of Justice, "Firearms Commerce in the United States", 2000 and 2019.
Americans own about 700,000 machineguns, see the 2019 report, Ex. 8, p. 15. The incidence of abuse of lawfully-owned machineguns is so low, there are no published data.
Finally, the US Supreme Court usually upholds its precedents. In US v. Miller, 307 US 174 (1939), the Court held that the Second Amendment protects ownership of military-type firearms.
Miller, a career criminal and a fugitive, was not represented. No one told the Court that the weapon at issue - a sawed-off shotgun - was widely used by front-line US troops in World War I.
The Germans - outraged by combat use of a "hunting" weapon - protested via the Swiss (neutrals). The US rejected the German protest, see: https://history.state.gov/historicaldocuments/frus1918Supp02/d912 .
In 1939, there were many front-line war-fighters, who had found sawed-off shotguns to be very effective for clearing trenches.
Our Courts rule based on evidence. The Miller Court had no evidence that sawed-off shotguns had recently been a common combat weapon.
Semi-auto firearms, about which many fulminate, derive from military-issue rifles. Ownership of semi-auto weapons plainly is protected by the Second Amendment.
1
I worked in downtown Lansing, near the state capitol building. One day, the gun rights people were making speeches, and four heavily armed guys were walking near my office, and I felt intimidated, thinking "please don't kill me." Why weren't they watching the speeches? It appeared that they were "patrolling" the streets. For what purpose? To provoke? Intimidate? Is that a common practice at these events?
9
What a sight!
All those hunters bearing their guns for hunting game.
Right.
Take a very close look at what you saw.
Right-wing extremists sending a message to the Democratic party: one wrong move and we rebel.
This is what the Declaration of Independence states as the right of the people.
Except, the government is not interfering in your life, liberty or property.
These "hunters" believe that gun rights should have no limitations.
Imagine all of the rights having no limits.
This is a continuation of the "lost cause" culture that bred after the Civil War.
We are never going to get rid of the SLAVE CULTURE OF THE SOUTH.
6
Fact Check......
Virginia has a population of 8.518 million.
22,000 showed up for the rally, and I will bet many came from out of state.
That represents less than .2% of the population..........
That is about as close to a definition of a minority as you can get.........
If the majority EVER got their act together common sense gun laws would be the norm.
It is time that the silent majority governed accordingly........
7
Congratulations to the Governor and law enforcement for making this demonstration peaceful
4
A well-regulated militia being necessary to support a law-breaking president is willing to make sure Impeachment doesn't continue.
6
This demonstration was an attempt at a show of force which had little to do with hunting or sports. The demonstrators expressed deep-seated fear. In fear of what? In fear of whom? Of changing times they do not control?
Assault rifles do not defend against changing times. I sincerely hope this doomsday movement does not turn into self-fulfilling prophecy.
7
If the conservative politicians had not used the Second amendment to support the NRA and gun sales we wouldn’t be so separated right now.The threat from the right to ‘ take away guns’ was never the goal.Now however ANYTHING that might curb
Rampant death by some gun owner with a grudge, is considered
Taking rights away.Not true.You have the right to own but not the unregulated right to use, any where any time in any way.Some restrictions must be applied, not so different from a drivers lisence.
4
22,000 people- predominantely white men- heavily armed with guns and aggressive signs ( "we will not comply", or "you take our guns and we start another civil war") is supposed to "protest" gun control laws from a state legislature? While there was no violence THIS time, it seems to me that these guys were itching for a fight and just had no targets.
If anything, this response just strengthens the resolve of the Gun Control advocates. For these gun fanatics, threat and Intimidation apparently is their only approach to reasonable dialogue. They've got nothing to say or offer to the debate
8
It's unfortunate that these folk are as unconcerned about the civil rights of other citizens as they are with their own inflated notions of "gun rights."
6
It is amazing to note that the largest portion of “gun rights advocates who showed up were not from Virginia. These are the same people proclaiming states rights. Get out and take care of your own business.
9
This proud gun owning Vietnam Vet supports reasonable gun control. The laws proposed in Virginia do not appear to me as I sit here far away in Texas (another gun touting state) to threaten my rights in terms of the 2nd Amendment. The Supreme Court has affirmed gun cotrol laws for the public safety are Constitutional as long as they do not prevent my right of ownership and use.
These VA proposals do not take away my right to own my weapons; they do serve to protect the public safety; they do not confiscate my weapons from me. I can use them for self defense, sport and recreational shooting and hunting where hunting is legal. They also strengthen the tools of law enforcement in working to promote the public safety...and could be made even more stronger at no risk to the intent of the Second Amendment.
So what do I think of these seems protests?
They are conducted by a bunch of testosterone driven yahoos who are acting out their wannabee Rambo like dream images.
10
The message from Gunmerica is stark: Question our grossly exaggerated notions of "gun rights" and you risk assassination, like Martin Luther King.
6
Hmmm, illegal to wear a mask in Virginia. Bet I know where that comes from. There was a time in our nation's History when some Southerners sought justice in the middle if the night with hoods on their heads.
4
The reason people want the right to be armed is to protect themselves and their families from the government, should the government try to usurp the rights granted to us as citizens. If all you are allowed is a pistol or hunting rifle, you may be able to provide security to your family in case of an intruder, but not from the government, who will ALL have powerful weapons. It is the state of this nation that has people afraid, and when afraid, they will revert to self protection. I used to be a Democrat and a faithful, happy NYT reader, but after watching what is happening in this country with mass uncontrolled immigration, immigration of large numbers of people with antithetical cultural values, and the failure of politicians to protect Americans, I have registered Republican and support Donald Trump. You guys are the crazies in my book.
3
"large numbers of people with antithetical cultural values"?
Projection is the trend nowadays it seems.
What happened to the old wisdom?
"Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye."
1
@Alex
The folks who want just a modicum of gun control are the crazies in your book?
Your facts are simply wrong. Until this president, undocumented immigration had been falling for two decades. Folks have been coming here, along with what you call their "antithetical cultural values," since the get-go. Many of your ancestors were almost certainly just that kind of immigrant. What evidence do you have that politicians haven't been protecting Americans? Finally, these 22 thousand marchers were all pro-Trump people. Thousands of them were white supremacists. They are doing this on Martin Luther King Day in Virginia which has just gone top-to-bottom Democrat, voted to approve the Equal Rights Amendment. Come on. You think their motive is protecting their families?
2
If the protesters had been mostly black and armed . . . Wait that would never be allowed. A kneeling black football player causes outrage among middle Americans after all. Even unarmed Black Lives Matter protesters have been manhandled by the police.
Let's be really clear about gun rights. They apply solely to white gun users. And that is why they are allowed to terrorize the rest of us in public spaces.
10
It seems to me that the majority of people of Virginia elected a DEM majority and a DEM governor, fully aware of their position on gun control. Most people, DEM or Republican, favor some level of restrictions. Why then do people from other states feel they have a greater understanding of what the people of Virginia want respecting gun control? While I support anyone's right to peaceful protest, having engaged in it myself where I live, it's especially strange that this group (what percentage from out of state?) is so threatened by the gun control crowd that they must come to their so-called peaceful protest with small arsenals of firearms attached to their bodies. I've lived my entire adult life (including as a single woman) in downtown areas, often asked by my suburban colleagues, if I felt safe. My answer is yes, & I don't own a gun. I exercise pre-cautions: locking doors and windows, having an alert dogs, and generally not engaging in behaviors or with people likely to result in conflict & aggression. When I see trouble, I speak up if reasonably safe to do so or call PD, who have always been responsive & sufficiently armed. I can count on one hand the times I've done this in 37 years. I urge the frightened, armed people to self-reflect, on their possible roles in being so scared that they need to be armed at every moment not involved in hunting deer, geese, or a coyote threatening their livestock. Psychotherapists are wonderful facilitators of this type of work.
3
The placement of the First and Second Amendments in the Bill of Rights was deliberate, not coincidental - the former guarantees the rights of citizens to speak out against their government, while the latter allows to citizens to arm themselves to resist, and (as at the Nation's founding) if it comes to it, overthrow a tyrannical government. "Gun control" is a euphemism, which to many/most Democrats means "gun confiscation". Democrats cannot envision a government that is too powerful - they are happy to hand over all their money in taxes (to be redistributed), happy to allow the government to control health care delivery, happy to have the government teach their children whatever the government decides etc - so the concept of overthrowing a too-intrusive government is meaningless to them. Republicans are more skeptical as regards governments that become too powerful, hence their insistence that the Second Amendment not be compromised.
9
@Richard If the Second Amendment goes first, the First Amendment goes second.
1
@Richard - If you think your right, put it to a national vote. What are you scared of? Apparently everything and everyone. And another thought, ‘gun confiscation’ sounds just fine to me if a majority want to end the gun carnage that inflicts our nation.
3
I read something thoughtful about the rally on Twitter. Someone asked how authorities would have reacted if this was a group of African American men dressed up and armed like the group in Virginia. Think about it.
16
@G Dives I posted exactly the same comment. Certainly wouldn't have been called a 'gun rally'.
3
There were armed African American citizens at the rally protesting for their right to defend themselves.
What's with the military costumes?
Why on earth would anyone want to mimic the streets of Mogadishu in Richmond?
This ain't no demonstration for gun rights. This is prepping for 'The Road'.
12
You have people like AOC claiming little police presence but at the same time multiple media outlets, including this one, reporting tight security. Which of the narratives is to be believed?
4
The gun owners at this rally may be perfectly responsible, but accidents happen and I do not want to be in the area when 22000 excited gun wielding protesters over react to that accident. Before WW 1 it took one bullet from an assassin to set off a war that murdered many many millions. In my local church a man brought his side arm into a service and I know that no one felt safer as they watched hi warily out of the corner their eyes as they prayed for peace.
12
Under a clever ‘constitutional defense’ guise and vocal support from President Trump, Virginia just gave the country a preview of how our democracy is going to work: massive rallies of heavily armed citizens occupy public space and suppress public dialogue with intimidation and the threat of violence. A reported 20,000 in Richmond on Monday was a shot across the bow. With one Tweet, the President could mobilize 100,000 on the Mall . . . and he will if it suits him.
10
The right to openly carry a gun is absurd. What if NYC enacted that law? Thousands of subway riders all pressed against each other gun toting?
With all the stresses of modern urban life, there would be gun deaths every minute.
We in the cities have always faced crime bravely, and WITHOUT guns! Keep your guns in your homes.
10
The fetishization of violent political action is the one element missing for an authentic fascist movement in the States. As an onlooker (Canadian), I think Americans really need to take events like this seriously. Violence or the threat of violence needs to countered by an authentic mass movement in support of non-violence. And it must be done soon before the Antifa types start their own fetishization of violence in defence of the far right militias. At that point it really will be too late, and the logic of violence will seem acceptable to much larger numbers of people.
8
As a Virginian born and raised with a gun carrying friend who suffers from dementia and has threatened his grandson, who he loves dearly, with a gun, I hope all of these proposed laws pass the House of Delegates. I really wish that people that are not from Virginia and don't live in Virginia would stay home. I think there were more out of state people there then Virginians.
13
Vinny McMahon can still defend people if the Virginia gun bills are passed.
I am fine with them having their adult safety blankets if it means we can actually do something about taxing the rich and enacting some sensible campaign finance reform.
One of the most annoying things about being a liberal is watching our legislators commit unforced error after unforced error. Trust me, this did not look good for us.
It is not worth the amount of political capital it is costing in order to prevent the few hundred or so deaths from mass shootings each year. How many more people are dying because our country lacks universal healthcare? If I trusted Democrats to take care of both issues at the same time, then I wouldn't make this comment but, they clearly can't.
2
1700 comments have convinced me: there is nothing new to be said about the topic of gun control. Maybe we should acknowledge the status quo and move on to other topics where progress might be possible.
26
@John "move on to other topics where progress might be possible."
The majority of Americans, the majority of Republicans, the majority of gun owners and the majority of NRA members WANT reasonable gun control.
Are you suggesting that democracy SHOULD be dead? I know it's nearly dead right now, but shouldn't we at least try to revive some of it? Restoring some semblance of democracy seems extremely important to me. As are getting rid of the Electoral College, getting rid of Trump and some Senate Republicans, and getting rid of assault weapons and high-capacity ammunition clips.
If we can't do any of this then we will have to continue living in a violent, dangerous, un-democratic, unjust, racist country.
16
I've never owned a gun my life but when I look at these people I'm convinced to time get on board.
5
This images are frightening, and reminiscent of some dystopian, Mad Max state. I have no problem with the 2nd Amendment. I also have no problem with gun regulation which the Supreme Court has ruled is allowed under 2nd Amendment. I do think that it's very frightening that so many Americans wish to proudly walk around flaunting their arsenals of weapons for mass killing.
25
What happened to the Passage in Isaiah about swords (weapons, guns in today's world) turning not plowshares? That hope is over 2000 years old. When will we ever learn?
3
You provide a quote in this article that Andrew Goddard who had organized a small counter rally after the pro gun rally broke up says
his moment of silence was to commemorate the thousands of people killed in shootings,who was he referring to,mass shootings which don’t come close to thousands
inner city murders which may well be in the thousands and are carried out in cities with very restrictive gun ownership,ie Chicago and Baltimore..Finally
one of your comments makes the point that elites not listening to the wishes of conservatives is fair as conservatives don’t listen to liberal elites.The big difference
is the elites are always about control while conservative policy rarely is.
1
@Able When you own a gun it is all about control and power. first you must be competent enough to control your own use of the gun, then be in control of that gun so that another less controlled than yourself can not use it Then there is the control of your environment through the display and possible use of your gun.
But for us who do not own guns and see the out of control use of guns fear is the result and perhaps fear and for you overcoming fear may be at the root of gun ownership. I for one seek a world where we can all live in a world where this fear is not necessary and we can live in peace with each other. Sigh.
3
20 people killed a mass shooting, especially if it is a school shooting, is much more damaging to the community and the nation than 20 people killed in individual instances such as domestic quarrels or drug deals. The reason is that mass shootings terrorize. They affect almost everyone. Among other repercussions, because of mass shootings schools now have
hold active shooter drills, which is certainly something most of us never had to do as kids and really kind of tragic.
So that’s how you compare mass shootings to individual shootings, not by the numbers.
5
@Able
"inner city murders which may well be in the thousands and are carried out in cities with very restrictive gun ownership"
The year is 2020, and your implied conclusion has been thoroughly debunked for some time now. First, the illegally-purchased guns in these places are mostly coming from nearby counties and states with very lax gun regulations. It doesn't take too much mental firepower to understand through logic alone that this must be the case, even without verification.
Second, guns, like drugs, will always present the greatest problems where societal dysfunction is concentrated. And in the case of suicide, household firearm ownership is a significant risk factor. Firearms deaths are highest in the mountain west and southeastern U.S., driven largely by suicides. The fact that guns have so much potential to do harm should give even the most selfish and geographically isolated among us pause, as so many unfathomable suicides and murders have demonstrated.
4
The fact that the Democrat majority immediately turned to gun control -- and likely gave Trump a winning strategy in 2020 -- proves that the Dems are incapable of planning and discipline. Gun control is one of the least significant issues facing this country, yet the Dems are obsessed with it: Cars and drugs kill more people -- and 70% of gun deaths are suicides.
It is clear that the dynamic at work is that the Dems want to confiscate all guns but, constrained by the Constitution, enact ineffective "feel-good, look-good" measures that only burden lawful gun owners. This is so off-putting that many person will hold thei noses and vote to re-elect the "very stable genius."
5
@KenC During every rally, Trump has a riff on the Second Amendment. It is part of judicial picks theme. And, usually comes near the end. The next rally, Trump will put this out at the beginning.
1
I own guns (though not assault weapons) and enjoy shooting. Yet, I find it really disturbing to see the picture of the men dressed in their military costumes, flaunting their weapons. Even if you are a proponent of the view that you need a gun for personal protection (a view that has questionable merit), I can’t understand the mindset that would make you comfortable displaying your gun in the public square. Particularly a gun clearly designed for the sole purpose of killing people. Many. Quickly. While dressed in a costume that mimics the military.
These displays of plumage (and only slightly more subtly, insecurity) are about scaring and intimidating people, and feeling some sense of power. It is, in reality, a display of mild derangement. Such demonstrators make a pretty powerful case for why further gun regulations are necessary: why would we want people with that mindset having access to military weapons?
15
Why don't those who insist on owning an assault weapon is as important as ensuring free and fair elections?
4
Looking at some of the photographs in yesterday's paper of people in camo, ballistic vests, AR-15's, etc. made me think that I was seeing scenes from Syria or Iraq or Afghanistan or some other 3rd world country
America is dying under the weight of a Democracy/Congress that does not work anymore. Under the weight of the mental illness of gun possession. The sad part is that, like climate change and the number of guns in America, we have already passed the tipping and will continue to slowly fail as a nation.
10
It seems to me that a certain naive trust brought us here, as perhaps it always brings us everywhere. Some of us have been following this plan of ever more education and cosmopolitan or global life, while others have kept or failed to keep the home fires burning.
What is that old myth about figures throwing stones back over their head that turn into people. Can't recall.
Just saw the 'America's Great Divide' series, with its overhead night shots of glittering NYC under a track of comedic mockery of Trump, before and after election. I think the term hollow laughter fits in there somehow. The front page was clownification of Trump, but the joke was on us.
The fruits of this narrow attack on guns is only thought, assumed and hoped to be beneficial. Where one might identify a gain, somewhere else an unanticipated loss lurks.
I'd concentrate on how governance can be improved; if such results in less anger, bitterness and hatred, great.
It is seductive to take pride in pushback, but it seems clear large numbers feel cornered.
You want 'hands off my body', what does that mean to 'hands off my guns'?
It is far easier to enact new gun control legislation than it is to address why we are raising or hosting so many that pursue homicide/suicide.
Not when political power has shifted, but when other conditions have improved will people give up their weapons, and then only if some are willing to use weapons to make them do so.
I have a family member who killed a home invader with his hunting rifle. He could have waited for the police who would have put chalk lines around his body.
A friend of mine fought a burglar who stabbed him to the extent that his intestines were out of his body. He did not have a gun, but used a kitchen knife and was able to bring the encounter to an end, which was fatal for the burglar.
I know many people dislike guns, but they can be very useful for defense and skeet shooting. I can live without the AR15's, but they do have their supporters.
4
@Balanced I have defended life and limb with my carry firearm. Fortunately I had it with me.
An AR-15 has plastic where "hunting rifles" have wood. AR-15s are NOT assault weapons. In fact, the government calls REAL military guns Personal Defense Weapons (I have copies of requisition requests from the federal government) however, if a U.S. citizen owns the semi-automatic version it's called an assault weapon. This should tell you something.
3
In the beginning of the article, Bob Holsworth said that people are feeling their rights Are being violated and the liberal elite is unresponsive. My question is why should the liberal elite listen to those people? The conservatives don’t listen to the liberal
Elite when they have power. They do whatever they want and step all over people’s rights. No one calls on them to be responsive to the complaints of those who disagree. The conservative governments including the federal government have slowly taken away so many rights from women and they have ignored our protests and told us to sit down and be quiet. Why should liberals be any different?
8
As a Virginian, I resent the influx of armed militias from other states invading our beautiful commonwealth. You do not represent the majority of Virginians who want our legislature to enact reasonable laws concerning gun ownership while ensuring that the 2nd amendment rights are protected.
15
Trump needs to be aware why he lost the popular vote in 2016 and why the Republican party lost its majority in the US house of representatives in the mid term elections in 2018. The Dems fought on promises to end gun violence and prevent the repeal of Obamacare. Independents like me support appropriate gun control that will keep the US safe from random, periodic, hateful and malicious gun violence against innocent Americans.
The second issue that still is in the democratic pockets now that their wasteful partisan impeachment sham is about to be blown to pieces is universal health care. Now that the threat to Obamacare has lost steam and actually gained some acceptance due to its enhancement by restoring the freedom of Americans who just cannot afford to carry any currently available health insurance but no longer need to pay a penalty. For those without means to carry health insurance to support their health care there should be government run hospitals and clinics that can provide needed healthcare and preventive measures at subsidized costs or free.
Remember Republicans looking for reelection, 2 issues will decide the 2020 elections in November. Rapid reduction in gun violence and universal health care for all ages including those who cannot afford any of the current health insurance.
4
1. This demonstration was against ANY form of gun control. Trump has supported these demos, and attacked ANY gun control.
2. Speaking of attacks, Trump also continues—as do Republicans—to loudly attack Obamacare. They are current,y in court fighting to have the whole thing thrown out, and have offered nothing whatsoever as a replacement.
5
@Robert from Out West. These demonstrators do not represent me or other independents. As far as I am concerned they can keep their guns as long as none of them fires a single bullet to kill or injure another human being. How that is enforced is up to the government. You probably have missed the news that the decision by the courts over the legality of the Obamacare has been postponed until after the elections. The Republicans better not keep harping on repeal and replace Obamacare until then. It is the democrats that are trying to overhaul the entire health care with proposals like Medicare for all ages.
1
Our town recently voted to become a 2nd Amendment Sanctuary. The regular town council meeting was unusually full of folks worried they were going to have their guns taken away. The council voted unanimously in favor without many other voices being heard or even aware this issue was on the Agenda. About a week later a bus load of folks arrived in town (all white, men and women, different ages) and convened a meeting in our local theater. When asked who they were, someone told us it was an Arms Manufacture holding a sales meeting. Then I read an article in the Washington Post about a group called the Oath Keepers being deployed around Virginia to train Sheriffs to form militias to subvert State gun laws. That scared the living daylights out of me. My small town which I thought was so safe and peaceful no longer feels that way.
8
@Kim Rockit So, you believe everything you hear? Did you check the validity? Check with any Sheriff's depts by making one simple phone call?
Why haven't there been studies and research about women and guns? Are women less likely to own guns or use guns? In recent memory, all shootings in schools, public places, private homes and more have been perpetrated by men (or boys!). Everything I read is about men and guns.
2
America's gun fetish is not unique to it. The levels of violence are extraordinary. Sensible regulations that a majority of gun owners and NRA agree with should be implemented. The gun manufacturers impact on right wing politicians in particular is stunning.
5
When I was about 8 years old and saw some of the rioting on TV during the civil rights movement, I asked my father if Selma, Alabama was part of the U.S. because I could not understand such cruelty. The answer was, technically they are part of the U.S. but those carrying out the attacks are not real Americans in mindset. As a WWII vet, the reality and horror of oppression never left his mind.
Third world country thugs/dictators use guns to control and brutalize the masses and regularly overthrow their governments through military force. Since when do "hunters" need to walk around with AK47's; since when does anyone have the "right" to walk into any building they choose with a gun? None of this is about "hunting" or "to protect oneself"; it is a justification for terrorism and, that is terrifying! It is impossible to understand why lawmakers continue to pander to the lowest common moral and intelligence denominator.
The sickening scene from Richmond makes me ask if that city and people are part of the U.S. We have seen the enemy and it is us.
16
@Jenna
My thoughts exactly when I saw the deadly riots that engulfed Boston in the mid-70s when its white residents turned to violence rather than desegregate its schools. Could these people and this town really be a part of the U.S.? Like you, I could not “understand such cruelty,” especially when at least one Southern school system had successfully implemented court-ordered busing several years earlier.
7
@Jenna Those aren't real AK47's. We don't have real AK47's in the U.S. Please please please people, get smart on important issues.
1
Your final image says it all: young people of diverse ethnicities holding up flowers, not military weapons. They are our future.
11
American gun extremists are a bizarre group driven by fear and paranoia stoked on by the NRA. They are unable or unwilling to grasp the idea that gun control is intended to keep powerful weapons out of the hands of criminals and the mentally disturbed, not to take guns from law-abiding sportsmen and collectors. The NRA of course is only interested in preserving the multi-billion dollar private weapons market in this country at any cost. Unfortunately the cost can be measured in innocent lives lost to gun violence.
18
So when they ban AR15s in a state, AR15s that are claimed to be powerful weapons, are they only banned for criminals and the mentally disturbed?
I’ve never seen a law like that. Virginia’s proposal certainly isn’t like that.
Unless, of course, everyone who isn’t a police officer or federal agent is automatically defined as a criminal or mentally disturbed.
While the impeachment trial is overhyped, this troubling rally is at the bottom of the page. The gun issue is very much a part of the right wing politics that has fed the fear campaign and double speak. Trump has repeatedly threatened the public regarding his removal from office. It is just another instance of intimidation to anyone who opposes his agenda. His base is being groomed. This has happened in many places in the world. Certainly Russia is a model and the horrific purges in Cambodia where people who wore glasses were targets.
10
Not one comment here has referenced the actually text of the 2nd Amendment, whose first four words are: A well regulated militia. I guarantee the majority of the 22 thousand people at this protest would not be able to recall these words.
13
That's always been my point. These people have never even read the second amendment. It's not a free for all. And the WELL REGULATED militia is meant to be for the defense of the state, not your right to have an arsenal in your house for your own questionable purposes.
8
@Aaron Black Look in a dictionary of the times. Well regulated= in proper working order. "Something that was well-regulated was calibrated correctly, functioning as expected".
Looking at those standing in line at this rally, I myself drafted during the Vietnam War and requesting, and receiving Medic Training and not ever! a gun owner, I would love to hear something along the lines of, "A recent survey was held amongst those who survived the Battle of Khe Sahn during the Vietnam War asking how they felt about keeping and bearing arms and to what degree one needs to own and keep weapons"?
Then the same survey administered to the likes of those lined up at this latest gun rally in Virginia.
Then have a comparative analysis of the results. I'm pretty sure it would result in something as different as apples are from oranges.
3
what I don't understand is the photo of 2 men with faces covered right above this text "In the end, the police reported no major incidents or violence and announced only one arrest, of a woman accused of wearing a bandanna to cover her face after being warned not to. (It is illegal in the state to wear a mask in public to conceal one’s identity.)" Can anyone explain this to me? Also - it's just priceless that the one arrest was a woman whose face was covered, not a man.........
6
@mlssmrchtti You may want to look farther into what you don't understand. You really want an explanation? Use a search engine once in awhile and only refer to credible sites. That's what I did.
When I see these photographs of men lined up in their camouflage, military style, clutching their automatic weapons, their weak expressions of resolve and toughness, I’m dismayed. And I ask myself how do we know if these are the “good guys with guns” we keep hearing about or are they simply what they appear, a bunch of extremists holding us all hostage?
If one of these “good guys with guns” walked into a shop, restaurant or mall I’d find the nearest way out and if the exit didn’t present itself, I’d look for cover. They’re frightening, intimidating and I don’t trust their motives or stability.
Gun rights people are forever taking about their constitutional rights, what about the rest of us? Isn’t it our right to live without intimidation, fear and violence? Why is their agenda, their right to parade around as wanna be “Rambos” more valid?
Why are we forced to question if this is a “good guy” just exercising his constitutional rights or a mass shooter?
I’m sick of it, the killing, the public displays of weapons, the “thoughts and prayers” by our weak, ineffectual Congress. The whole tragic, misguided mess.
How many more murders must we endure before we finally say enough?
20
I listened to a few of these people. They did not appear to be a well regulated militia. Probably better to read the 2nd Amendment prior to protesting agin it. Probably be better for trump to read some things before he's agin them too.
8
As a gun safety advocate in Virginia, I choose not to go to Richmond to support gun safety laws because of the threats to people like me and because Lori Hass the director of the main VA gun safety group called off our rally. I am thankful no one was hurt, but allowing people to bring deadly weapons to public places intimidates my right to peaceful assembly. I am particularly angry at out of state gun nuts who came to my state to infringe my rights and to seek to overturn our state elections that put Democrats in charges of our state legislature. Sensible gun safety laws like universal background checks on gun buyers, a red flag law for identified violent people, and a ban of assault weapons threaten no one's rights to own a gun but are sensible safety for the people.
14
What s being proposed in Virginia is what many states already have on the books. Many guns are bought legally in states such as Virginia, or through straw purchases, and with no back ground checks they are then brought up to the Northeast via I-95 and into the upper Midwest and then sold to criminals.
These weaker or non existent gun laws are a threat to public safety and contribute greatly to gun violence and it's obvious these states that are complacent and need to change their laws to match the rest of the country. If not then they can start paying the costs that folks like me in the NE have to pay to combat crime with these illegally bought weapons..
One of their main arguments is that you should not punish legal gun owners but honestly these new laws won't. If you wan to stop the illegal trade of guns, including being out sourced to Mexico, we need to have reasonable, legally defensible in court and national gun regulations.
I mean there is not even a national data base for the FBI because of lobbying by the NRA.
As for the red flag laws I do share the concerns of many that these may violates you right to due process. It is one thing to be convicted of a crime, but if it is just suspicion or a false claim well that is a very slippery slope to be on.
3
@#OWS veteran What do you mean there's no national database for the FBI? Every single gun manufactured in the U.S. (unless self manufactured and that's legal) is in a federal database.
We've over 20, 000 gun laws in the U.S. Take a look at the ones that don't get enforced. It'll answer many of your questions. I've called the BATFE and asked these types of questions. You might want to as well.
I applaud your support of the 4A and hope that you, some day, will support the Bill Of Rights in it's entirety.
1
One has to ask, "What is missing in the collective psyche of these types?"
And where in the Constitution does it say it is our right to horde armaments like what we're witnessing, have been witnessing ever since the NRA started their campaign to increase paranoia, paranoia defined as being 'when one is consumed by false fears', amongst gun owners chiefly to increase and maintain sales of armaments tied to the notion of imminent urgency.
3
So many of these people are dressed like they are going to war. I wonder how many have actually been in a real warzone? I am sure actual combat experience would cure them quite quickly of their obsession with it. Way too many people in the gun culture appear to have a tenuous relationship with reality. It would be interesting to study the relationship between gun ownership and paranoia because it appears the more you own, the more paranoid you become. Or perhaps its a chicken and egg scenario.
20
Woman arrested for violating state law prohibiting face masks? In one photograph half the men in the picture had their faces covered with masks. Does this law apply to women only?
16
The militant gun rights supporters and NRA convey a message that there is no reasonable limitation on guns, that there is no common sense view that can balance safety and gun ownership, that any limit is a complete abasement of their rights. Implicit in this view is that America is extremist, that we the people are inherently authoritarian. This is in reality a projection of their own extremism, as nothing can be further from the truth. This extremism is individualistic and self absorbed. It seems there is not a thought about duty or sacrifice. They seem unwilling to consider alternatives the may involve slight inconvenience in the name of common good. They can only cast angry accusations and make belligerent gestures. I can only conclude that these extremists (and I am aware that not all NRA members are extremists) do not have any interest in building a better society. They seem to be more interested in throwing tantrums, promoting fear, and displaying their hardware. As a people we are much better than this and need to call this kind of extremist thought and behavior for what it is.
9
WOW 22,000 people showed up to rally against the proposed gun laws. Considering that many were coming from coming from out of State that's really a very small amount of protesters. They're against UNIVERSAL BACKGROUND CHECKS. What, I ask, is the problem with that? Just think about how many people have been murdered because only partial background checks were done. Do they want people with psychological problems carrying guns?
11
As a British person who lives in a country where gun violence is virtually non-existent, I still do not understand this obsession by so many on their right to bear arms and the justification that it’s to protect themselves and their families.
Could someone please tell me how many lives are actually saved each year by people protecting their families with guns?
How many bad guys are stopped by ordinary members of the public intervening with a well placed shot?
How many of your nations vulnerable are saved from crime by an armed private citizen?
Wikipedia states that 1.4 million people have died from firearms between 1968 and 2011.
How many lives have been saved?
189
@Nick First, be advised that in the United States, the average person has no right to police protection. . The U.S. Supreme Court so held in 1855 (South v. Maryland, 59 U.S. 296 (1855)).
In the modern words of a U.S. Appeals Court decision: "But there is no constitutional right to be protected by the state against being murdered by criminals or madmen. It is monstrous if the state fails to protect its residents against such predators but it does not violate the due process clause of the Fourteenth Amendment or, we suppose, any other provision of the Constitution.”(Bowers v. Devito, 686 F.2d 616, 618 (7th Cir. 1982)).
This is “good law”, i.e., this decision has not been over-turned. This decision binds only Federal Courts in the Seventh Circuit. But other Courts may cite to Bowers. The bottom line: if we have no right to protection from the government, it follows that we are responsible for our own protection.
Second, in 2018 American civilians lawfully killed 353 felons, during the commission of a felony. Law enforcement officers killed an additional 410 such felons. Thus, ordinary folks accounted for 46% of all such justifiable killings. Source: FBI, "Crime in the United States - 2018", Extended Homicide Data, Tables 14 and 15. Note that this is a public and published source.
13
@Jay E. Simkin
Dang, I guess this means I need to run out and purchase a AR-15, an AK-47 and a small rocket launcher to protect my kids at their next soccer tournament.
Thanks for writing! I was completely in the dark. Now, when I show up at my kids soccer games with my new AK and AR and rocket launcher I can be sure they are safe!!
62
@Jay E. Simkin, following your argument and assuming the number of felons lawfully killed by both law enforcement and civilians has been a constant every year (763) that means that in the 43-year period Nick in London refers to there have been 32,809 justified killings of felons. That leaves 1,367,191 Americans dead by firearms during that period. Is that a reasonable price to pay for the right to protect ourselves?
58
Any grown man who is so scared of the world that they feel the need to always carry a gun around is really pathetic. I’ve travelled and lived all over the US and the world and some pretty sketchy places, and never once had the thought of needing a gun. Hopefully these people can get the psychiatric help they so desperately need.
27
More of Trump's very fine people.
17
Compared to Antifa rallies, which often turn violent, the pro-gun rally was remarkably peaceful..............Food for thought!
9
True. No counterprotestors drove a car into the crowd this time.
9
Jack, the fact no one was hurt is that the governor and the police in Richmond took preventative measures to keep rival protectors apart.
The vast majority of political violence, including massacres in temples and churches, is committed by the right.
2
I have to wonder if it’s a failure or the education system and the way history is taught. The way we glorify violence. Also, there is no coincidence to this protest being held on MLK day.
These archaic laws helped early Americans move westward, seizing and destroying villages. And the public in the south was expected to help with controlling the slaves and the citizen required slave patrol to keep watch for runaways.
Now these guys want the right to do whatever they want, buy whatever they want and continue this madness of innocent murders. Is it an American tradition ? Passed down in the national consciousness?
6
"...carrying the same vehement message as the rest: Leave gun laws alone."
About the same as abortion rights protesters. No?
3
If more guns, and more lethal models, made us safer, we'd be the safest nation on earth. Hint: we have by far the highest rate of gun deaths of any developed country - look it up.
And signs saying, 'The American revolution started for less,' are either an argument for gun control to protect us from the crazies, or at least grounds for better schooling in history and civics. The closest thing to a king we're likely to have is Donald Trump, but only If Mitch McConnell gets his way.
8
What is everyone in the United States so afraid of?
15
@S "What is everyone in the United States so afraid of?"
We are not afraid of European immigrant rape gangs. But, then again, we have the Second Amendment.
1
I wonder how many of these gun-rights folks would like it if a huge contingent of people of color and LGBTQ people showed up with guns.
14
These are the same folks that support a draft dodger that lies to them on a daily basis, won't allow witnesses at his trial to speak and is fighting tooth and nail from having to divulge his tax records.
Don't beat the "respect the Constitution" drum if you're willing to have it trampled by your latest Golden Calf.
20
Democrats can own guns too and we should have them for true self defense. Not because we wish to, but because we must have our own security force organized to serve the public good. The difference will be that it is not self-interest but selflessness that drives us. How many of those people who marched actually use their guns as a tool for good? Where do they serve as guardians or protectors of the populace? Intent is everything.
2
Enough talk. Enough debate. Just pass the laws. Many of them.
20
This, undoubtedly, was the highlight of the article. “Chris Dement, 22, said that he was glad to see the demonstration was peaceful but that he was prepared to use a 9-millimeter carbine — which he brought to stand in solidarity — for self-defense in case of violence.”
13
If these gun right supports are truly so afraid of their life being threatened that they feel compelled to carry assault rifles around, they are not free.
Real Freedom is living without fear that your fellow man or the government will kill you.
12
“Many of them armed”.’ I’m just going to assume that many, if not all, of them were white males. What do you think the response of law enforcement would be if a large contingent of brown and black people carrying fully loaded assault rifles would be?
19
Sorry America, but there will always be a lot of gnashing of teeth from both sides here. I won't add anything new to that debate. However I think the photo of the actors from Deliverance County should be put forward for an Oscar... for Best Song: Bring Back The Clowns!
4
If you follow the statistics, not just your preferred internet echo chamber, you will find you are much more likely to be killed by a car than a gun.
Yes, we should have reasonable gun control laws, but let's keep some perspective. I, for one, am much more worried about bad, drunk, drugged, and gadgeting drivers than I am about people with guns. And the statistics entirely support my comparative concern.
And, you know how you get state gun laws?
Follow the example of California.
They weren't interested in gun laws.
Then the Black Panthers showed up at the State Capitol.
Fully armed. Legally.
Suddenly there was a great interest in gun control.
4
You care nothing about the laws that enables these high capacity rapid fire machines to shred 7 year olds in minutes? Really?
The car is used for many purposes, it is not designed to kill as many living things as possible in a matter of seconds.
7
Cars and driving them are highly regulated in this country. Why not guns?
4
Military garb at a protest rally - stop playing Rambo around the rest of us. Every time I hear about another mass shooting, I sarcastically think - another responsible gun owner gone bad.
It is time for reasonsble gun control laws and yes we will still have the right to shoot and hunt. Ban all concealed weapons, we have the right to know that the person next to us cannot kill us at any moment.
9
Do these armed gun right "activists" want civil war or is it just me?
11
The second amendment was perverted by the Supreme Court, an innately political body pretending to be apolitical. Your constitutional right to own a gun only applies if you are in a well regulated state militia..
4
Interesting how many NYT readers are frightened to death at the thought of being anywhere near all these gun owners.
I cannot imagine a safer place to be. They know how to handle guns safely. They are not hot-headed anarchists. They do not believe in destroying property. And they are fully familiar with our laws.
These are the kind of people you want in our police and military forces.
8
Yes it frightens me. What is the intent of carrying a 50 caliber sniper rifle in public? Some of these weapons belong in an armory for use in a war by armed forces not in the hands of the public.
12
Then why do they cover their faces?
14
So why haven’t they joined up?
6
These guys just make me want to vote for the Democrats and for more gun restrictions even more.
15
With everyone packing heat, it's gotta be safe as houses, right? Right?
3
What’s up with this crowd? They have nothing to fear but their ignorance should they ever wake up. In fact, I fear them, with their sanctimonious attitudes and guns. What are they worried about? When was the last time this country was occupied by foreign invaders as my parents endured in Southern Europe in the 1940s?
11
It took militants from all over the country to put together a group of 22,000? I suppose they are used to following Trump around to attend his rallies.
9
Silly me. The people in the photo, one with a phone on the shoulder, and another with a hard hat, very much resemble the police, seems to me. Well, all I can say is I learn something new every day.
2
Reminiscent of the armed & masked Russian Federation troops appearing in Ukraine during crisis of 2014.
Hate to see it here.
2
Man, what are those folks so afraid of that they have to arm themselves like a militia?
8
Columbine, Sandy Hook, Vegas concert, Colorado movie theater, Miami night club, Florida High School need any more examples. I am not saying take away your right to bear arms but honestly do you really need an AR 15? We are not at the current times being invaded from a foreign nation so we do not need to create a militia. Too many young people with bright futures have paid the ultimate price for the right to bear an AR 15.
8
A protest because I can't go around with an assault rifle in a peaceful nation? Really?
That's a common sense reversal. The only protest allowed should be that of citizens who are tired of seeing people walking around with assault rifles in a peaceful nation?
9
Can Trump be considered to have incited a riot even though there was none?
2
I hold Dick Heller personally responsible for the dramatic increase in mass shootings since that 2008 decision and the fact that schools and other gathering places have to be fortified as if we were at war
7
It’s a absurd, and the biggest problem is caused by the NRA . They continue donate money for unscrupulous politicians to do whatever is convenient and profitable for them.,We need to mobilize against NRA. We need to remove republicans from senate and have a democrat president to make a strong laws. Maybe??
7
"To suppose arms in the hands of citizens, to be used at individual discretion, except in private self-defense, or by partial orders of towns, countries or districts of a state [i.e. when ordered to by local government authority], is to demolish every constitution, and lay the laws prostrate, so that liberty can be enjoyed by no man; it is a dissolution of the government. The fundamental law of the militia is, that it be created, directed and commanded by the laws, and ever for the support of the laws." - John Adams
Or as it is stated clearly elsewhere, armed citizens constitute a militia, which must remain under strict subordination to, and be governed by, civil authority. When obeying the lawful commands of those appointed by law to command them, they are acting as a militia. A bunch of men with guns trying to force the majority to bend to their wishes is a gang.
7
A beautiful display of free citizens peacefully exercising their 1st and 2nd amendment rights.
5
Yes, lovely pictures. A bunch of unregulated guys with assault weapons.
3
The spectacle of all the pics out from today of the military-clad, fat, middle-aged men with assault weapons is both comedic and terrifying at the same time. One of the most perverted examples of "freedom to gather and protest" that I have ever seen.
12
The Virginia Defense League is entirely about the gun show industry. It isn't about the 2nd amendment really it's about money. Oh, big surprise.
I am so sick of the VDL saying no, claiming "registration" and "conviscation", which 0 people have suggested. They have provided absolutely no constructive ideas to stop shootings. When a mass shootings happens in Virginia all the arguments about a good guy with a gun fall flat. Where was he, that good guy while a dozen people died. If all those gun owners want to be responsible then we should hold them responsible when they fail.
The guy in this article said he wants to defend his family and neighborhood. Where was he when his neighbors were dieing. There are nothing but "good guys" with a gun in Virginia they claim. So how come people keep getting killed?VDL, either step up or shut up.
Thanks nothing VDL.
5
All societies limit citizens' freedoms for the public good; that's why we have speed limits and ages of sexual consent. Most countries have strict laws on gun ownership and it demonstrably pays off. More than 100,000 Americans will die unnecessarily over the next decade because of lax firearms control. Groups of armed civilians in camouflage gear are frankly sinister and disturbing. Against whom are they arming themselves?
5
Ask these "patriots" how many Sandy Hooks it would take for them to accept common-sense limits on guns in America? There is no limit. None. You could stack murdered children to the sky and it wouldn't matter.
They've succeeded in getting their way - the nation is buried in guns and the accompanying gun violence to go with it.
Now they're holding the rest of us hostage. Look at the OVERT suggestions of violence if they don't get their way. Domestic terror.
8
I cannot believe that we need assault weapons to protect our self in America. I am not against hand guns or hunting weapons, but just against deadly weapons of mass killing.
2
The fact that I can carry multiple loaded assault rifles down the street in most places in the USA, while also dressed in camo and a face mask, but can't sit on the sidewalk and sip a beer, about sums up our country's priorities.
258
@Mark
Can you carry multiple loaded assault rifles down the street in Riyadh? What would Saudi police forces do if you attempted that?
As far as sitting on the sidewalk sipping a beer, that is illegal in so many places that bars wishing for their customers to drink al fresco have to obtain permission to do that from city councils, city police, and state police, and fence in areas for outdoor drinking .
You ca, however, you can drink coffee and soft drinks outside anywhere you wish.
2
@Stephen Beard In Lisbon, Portugal you can buy a beer in a bodega then drink it as you walk down the street. In Paris in Luxembourg Park the same kiosk which sells ice cream also sells beer and wine. A much different approach to civilization. I say lets vote on it.
10
@Mark
Maybe. But it's the combination of multiple loaded assault rifles and the consumption of beer that I find most troubling.
6
“I’m a patriotic American,” Mr. Pfaff said. “The left is going so far left right now.”
Excuse me? American left would be considered right-wing in most civilized counties. The left is going so far left argument is ludicrous.
9
The 2nd Amendment always baffled me. I am not a USA citizen, I like guns, I served in my country's army, and I have close ties to the USA. But still, I cannot understand how fixated people are on this Amendment. The right to bear arms was for another era, one that society was not structured when the USA was a young country, and when single-shot rifles and swords were up against single-shot rifles and swords, and some cannons. Now, this argument that you have a gun in order to overthrow the government you don't want does not stand anymore, mainly because of the USA being a democracy. But also, if the government decides to oppress people using tanks, missiles, fighter jets, bombs, and professionally trained personnel, what will an M16 do against those?
I understand that guns are big business, but also a political arena where people are divided among the right, the left, the patriots, the liberals, the crazies, and the lunatics, etc. I also get that it is a hobby and that the USA has so many veterans that they are used to having such tools around them, but is it worth living under such constant fear (that of the evil government or the criminal out there to get you)?
So, go to the range, have fun with guns, but next time a mass shooting happens, do not look for the mental issues excuse or the terrorist or the racist one. The 2nd Amendment as you want it has no exeptions, so think about it for a while.
6
Donald Trump did not complain when the Secret Service banned guns when he addressed the NRA. In fact the NRA did not object. So was that part of a Republican plot to infringe on the 2nd Amendment. Of course, when the founding fathers wrote about the right to bear arms, the term arms meant muskets, flintlock pistols, pikes and swords. And I think that people should be allowed to have all the muskets, pikes, pistols and swords that they want.
6
This is less about guns, in my opinion, as it is yet another gladiator sport that America cherishes: the game of winners and losers.
Across many divides we are unwilling or unable to try to consider and understand viewpoints that are not ours, preferring to form ranks to denigrate "the other."
And I hate guns.
But If I was a single mother living in a dangerous neighborhood I'd own a gun.
If I was a church goer who had watched part of my congregation gunned down, I might want to carry as prevention.
If I'd been shot in the street, or been targeted at a concert or movie or shopping mall I'd probably want all guns banned.
But few of us will ever take the time or have the will to understand "the other."
What none of us should want are reckless or mentally unstable people running around armed. Guns don't kill, people do.
1
I wonder what would happen if by accident or mistake an AK-45 just went off in the midst of this group. I think the very worst would happen.
2
As a British professor of history I taught in US universities for a while, so realising that many young Americans have a rather cartoon understanding of US history (in many cases, literally.) The Second Amendment, which originated in Virginia, has its basis in white fears of slave revolts. In a way, the gun rights movement today harks back to that, although of course it is not justified as such.
Interesting therefore the connections between white power and privilege and the right wing movements (mostly prominently the KKK) which have never accepted a legal or moral order based upon the equality of all Americans. The gun is in effect a true symbolisation of one of the nastier threads of US history which runs on right until today. and of course right up to the door of the current US president, someone, we know, who has supported these proto-fascist movements.
6
Why is, according to fanatic gun owners, the second amendment more important than the first? I bet they cannot remember the last time they had to use their guns to defend themselves...other than to bully the population at large. Reason and common sense seem absent from this conversation. And we remain the most aggressive, if not violent, advanced nation in that regard. Wielding weapons in the open, especially if the military- style used in wars, must be considered a dangerous anomaly if not straight abuse of power. The majority of us are peaceful folks, requiring safeguards for our freedom to express ourselves; and guns ought not be part of it. Certainly not in a civilized society. So, who are we, nuts?
3
The most remarkable thing I find about the righteous hysterical violent indignation from gun rights advocates is that they brand the 2nd amendment as a protection from a potentially tyrannical government and thus a bastion for democracy are the ones who threaten to take up arms if Trump, who was elected with the aid of interference from Putin's Russia, should happen to be impeached and removed from office. They are a threat to democracy, not a defense for it.
7
This train has left the station. One day, God willing, there will be no need for weapons such as these, and the 2nd amendment will be a footnote.
2
We need new constitution: abolish the second amemdment; limit senator's term; change election day on weekend, etc.
4
Canada has one of the strictest gun laws on the planet. Now our Liberal government is planning to take away the firearms of law-abiding honest people. The current government is using concerns about criminal gun violence to attack lawful gun owners in an effort gain votes. Our government will spend 1 billion tax payer dollars to buy back AR-style firearms. Money which is needed for education and developing socio-economic initiatives. This will do nothing to reduce gun violence in our cities. Violence which is driven by an opioid epidemic. In the end, guns will always be available to those with bad intentions.
They will first ask you to be licensed, then they will ask you to resister your firearms, and then they will come take them away.
3
@Dom S Good! You have a smart government, wish we did.
4
Do those 2nd Amendment folk believe in democracy? The people of Virginia have cast their votes on this issue.
8
I don't understand who you are protecting yourself against when you have a stash of guns. The government? Look what the US did to Soleimani who had an entire country protecting him. Swat Team? The SEALS? You don't have a chance. So why?
Growing up my father sent me to high school with a pearl handled 22 pistol, to protect myself, having been assaulted several times. My cousins, shot and killed in a bar fighting over a girl. What I learned is that I needed to get out, where I didn't need a gun. 10 years later, Ph.D in Chemical Engineering, MBA. That is the American dream. Work hard, move where it's safe.
I don't have a gun, and I don't want you to have one either.
5
The majority wants to be able to live with freedom of fearful men (and some women) dressed up for war, trying to intimidate their neighbors. Who, in their right mind, thinks you need to dress up for war to get some milk for breakfast at the neighborhood grocery store? This is not "elitist", it is just simple common sense. This intimidation needs to stop. The people of Virginia have voted. Respect their vote.
5
No one is taking anyones guns away. Their entire fear is irrational and over the top.
3
These Gun Safety laws are fairly tame. How it is that some people want to overrule these laws ( and via violence) that are meant to sanely be applied in order to limit the deaths and murders of our fellow citizens.
Its crazy. As for all those touting assault guns and weapons of mass destruction they should know that congress passed the National Fire Arm act in 1934 to outlawed certain guns described as “any other weapons,” machine guns and firearm mufflers and silencers.
In 1968 Congress passed the Gun Control Act which made a constitutional fix that later passed Supreme Court muster and also amended NFA definitions of “firearm” by adding “destructive devices” and expanding the definition of “machine gun.”
In 1986, Congress amended the NFA definition of “silencer” by expanding the 1934 prohibition to include any part intended for use in the assembly or fabrication of a silencer. The act also amended the 1968 law to prohibit the transfer or possession of machine guns, with certain exceptions.
With this, its a horror-show that all these phony second amendment supporters from around the country and armed with destructive devices gathered on none other than MLK Day to intimidate the electorate and elected officials. Where is the courageous police to protect us and enforce these long-time upheld laws? All Americans have a right to not be intimidated, subjected to gun violence or worst yet slaughtered by destructive device or assault weapons. Limit ammunition now.
3
I marvel at the images of (mostly) white men, armed to the teeth with semiautomatic, military-type weapons and other war-related paraphernalia, blithely strolling the streets, seemingly unconcerned, uncaring about the psychic effect on, and consternation imposed upon a vast swath of the American public. Apparently, it comes naturally to them.
Now, envision, if you will, those same images to which we’ve grown accustomed, only the bearers of those weapons are all black men.
Yes, let’s have a Million Man March of African-Americans for the Second Amendment.
I’d be very interested in reading the post-March analyses and op-eds.
8
The one thing that rabid gun owners have in common is they seem scared of everyone and everything. To them there's always a lurking threat. There's always a bogeyman waiting to get one over on them. What an exhausting way to live. And, it's ironic that the real threat to safety/security in the USA seems to be gun owners themselves.
5
Other people have rights too. It's not just about the right wing anymore. Not in Virginia.
5
I grew up in west Texas so I understand the “gun” thing. Most of my siblings have them, I enjoyed firing them off as a kid, but they’re just not for me. Still, I get why others want them and I’m somewhat Libertarian about people having their own space.
But these pictures today were unreal. A clear sign the Legislature needs to reign this in. You want to go hunting; fine. You want to go target shooting; great. You want to conceal carry into a restaurant; knock yourself out. Carry a shotgun or assault weapon to a political rally at the capitol; you’ve crossed the line in your personal judgment of exercising a weapon.
The Virginia legislature should restore some common sense and decency back into America. One state at a time.
4
When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. When the government fears the people there is liberty. Thomas Jefferson.
If the government managed to ban guns and have a monopoly on violence. There would be tyranny.
2
In other words, in lieu of discussions and arguments: sheer intimidation.
3
Having been born and raised in Germany, I have a quite different stance on the right to bear firearms. In Germany, you need a sound reason to get permission to bear firearms and after some terrorist incidents, legal restrictions were tightened. It seems to me that after all those killings and attacks in the US, finally, a growing number of US citizens realized that restrictions have to be made. The reason why I am pessimistic about any change is the NRA. If even Obama wasn't able to curb the power of that organization and to change legal restrictions fundamentally hoping that President Trump will continue this path feels like Waiting for Godot!
3
I love my country and I honor and respect the Constitution and the institutions it upholds. I am so deeply disturbed by the armed protest today. On MLK day? Come on! What type of dark comedy are we living in?
These people talk about civil war. How dare they even entertain such such self-indulgent and self-destructive possibilities?
3
My question is, don't 22,000 people have anything better to do with their time? With all of the things they could protest or push for, THIS is what activates them politically?
5
I live in Maine which has a relatively good record of gun safety. Most gun violence here involves suicide and the murder of women by their partners, some of which might be prevented by better laws.
Although we have gun extremists who recognize no restrictions on gun ownership, a majority of gun owners here support safety legislation such closing the gun show loophole.
Michael Bloomberg funded a gun regulation initiative which was poorly written and easily exploited by the Republican party and gun lobbyists. The initiative brought a surge of single issue voters who while they were at it also defeated Democratic candidates. Disaster all around.
Although I frequently hear gunfire where I live, I never feel in danger. My neighbors respect their guns and our community. They are not out parading with military weaponry just to show they can. I know not all those at the rally were gun extremists but the organizers invited seditious militias and white supremacist populists - people who promote and practice second amendment solutions to persons and policies they disagree with.
I do not understand why people would build their lives around their guns. Or why they insist on civilians owning military weaponry. It was not always like this. Not until this perverted iteration of the NRA (which used to promote safety above all else) got involved. While they were partying in Richmond, there were mass shootings in Kansas City, San Antonio, and Honolulu.
1
Today in Richmond saw many individuals, probably very different than you, peacefully demonstrating in support of their constitutionally-protected rights.
Legitimately asking, personal politics aside, that can still be a good day for America, no?
1
It seems really important to once again, focus on the facts. The outrageous measures being proposed would limit purchases of handguns to one each month; require that gun buyers submit to background checks; and allow local governments to ban guns in parks and public buildings.
Read that last one again, take your time: ban guns in parks and public buildings.
Many of these comments talk about hunting, protecting your rurally located homes, family heritage of responsible gun ownership. All of that is awesome and wouldn't be touched AT ALL.
What is happening while responsible gun owners lament any type of restriction at all is kids and adults are being slaughtered in public places by largely malcontented, deranged white men with unlimited access to weapons, access no other first-world nation allows.
I will ask responsible gun owners this: where then does it start if you find guns in parks to be too "left-wing" and "elitist?" And slippery slope arguments need not apply.
2
The problem with carrying guns openly is that it dramatically escalates every situation into a life or death manner.
I recall one story of someone standing in line and an argument between him and someone else. The other person lifted their shirt, to show he was armed. It was a subtle threat, saying, "argue with me more and I'll shoot you". If you give all 300 million people guns, those encounters will happen more and more. Gun deaths are often more a crime of passion and anger, not premediated or deliberate. Fits of anger and passion make people out of control and guns are that potent mix.
Guns transform what would ordinarily be a verbal argument, into someone dying. That's not good for a stable society. If everyone had a gun, I would never leave my apartment.
3
“Intimidation is not peaceful,” said Andrew Goddard, the legislative director for the Virginia Center for Public Safety, who led the group in a moment of silence for the thousands of people who have been killed in shootings."
Exactly. Gun lovers have every right to demonstrate their love as loud and as long as they please but not by brandishing weapons intended for war, not peace. What sportsman needs an AR15 to kill a deer?
1
It's sad to see so many people carrying guns being pawns of the gun industry. I have lived in five countries, and owned shotguns for hunting game birds in each one. There were never any problems as long as I followed regulations.
But...America? What is this dependence upon gun ownership to express one's masculinity? As a former NRA member, we need sensible gun laws just like we have laws for automobiles, that include education, training, testing and fees. There are over 110 deaths a day from firearms in the USA. What's more important? Guns or life? When you look at your children, ask yourself that same question.
3
Where I live, the gun is strictly regulated whereas the fireworks are completely allowed, especially for New Year’s Eve. We can’t understand that the US makes the guns available freely whereas the fireworks are illegal because they are dangerous. (Except NH?)
3
Well, if Virginia is an open carry state, I should think that Canadians going stateside on holidays may be wise to avoid Virginia alltogether.
Looking at these Virginia gun faces and hearing their quotes, well, better safe than sorry.
4
I am a 70 year old woman. I have lived and traveled in a number of different places, including New York City in the 70s. My home has never been "invaded." Nor have the homes of any of my friends and acquaintances. I have 2 smallish dogs who bark a lot, and I feel safe in my home and walking around my lower middle class neighborhood. I leave my porch light on all night and keep my door locked. I cannot imagine why I would need a gun to protect myself.
6
This is what the motorcycle lobby used to do. They would wear all the black leather and silver hardware and tough-looking regalia to state legislatures. As a group, they looked intimidating. The visual and physical intimidation works to pass laws that otherwise do not make economic or safety sense for society or even motorcycle riders.
Let freedom ring. I suppose.
1
I'm a gun owner. Dad gave me a rifle when I was 12 years old. As an adult I didn't own guns until I got back into hunting. To be perfectly honest, I like guns. I feel safe owning guns. I feel safe having a rifle in my jeep when I go hunting, camping, hiking, or mountain biking. In the Utah, Colorado, and Idaho mountains, where I'm often found on a day off, I almost always come across men and women carrying guns. Sometimes I feel perfectly safe around them, and other times I don't. I always feel safer knowing I have a gun with me.
I know statistically I'm not safer. I know possessing a gun puts me at increased risk for suicide, or dying by homicide - gun shot. I know there's risks to be mitigated so that the guns I own are never involved in tragedy. But tragedy is in fact their purpose, so it's rather ironic. I know many gun enthusiasts. There's definitely a spectrum of gun owner types. There's hunters who often only own one or two guns, and never touch them unless to hunt or to practice for a hunt. There's the recreational shooters that get them out frequently for the range.
Then there's the survivalist, militia types, and the individuals photographed at this rally fit the picture. These folks are radical. They take guns to protests to intimidate. They believe conspiracy theories that demonize immigrants, liberals, and in fact most people outside their paradigm. They play war games and dress up as if military. These are the dangerous ones.
4
Compare gun deaths in this country to any other civilized country. The only sane explanation is easy access to guns. No reading of second amendment can reasonably interpreted as arming people being protected by police force.
3
Might these enthusiasts enjoy their parade – it is around Chinese New Year. God bless, and might laws promulgated be appropriate for America and its individualistic culture.
Perhaps this should become an insurance issue.
If you insist on having a dangerous weapon in your house, car, or on your person, you have to have a certain amount of liability insurance.
The more guns you have, the more insurance you must carry.
While many gun owners handle their guns safely, liability insurance would help gun owners to focus more on safety issues - and to acknowledge that those of us who do NOT own guns have rights, too!
7
The article mentions someone wearing a sign that says "First gun control, then people control"
What they don't realize is that it has already happened, but the other way around. Their president and the Republican party has effectively controlled their reactions by stoking fear and feeding them misinformation.
4
I would suggest the right should maintain intellectual consistency with their demand for strict Constitutional originalism, as defended by Scalia, Thomas, and Gorsuch. Based on the concept of originalism, this topic should all boil down to the definition and understanding of "arms" at the time the Constitution was written. I believe that would be a single shot musket.
4
The arms that are being referenced in the second amendment ARE military weapons.
The second amendment exists in our Constitution so that The People can protect themselves from abuse, especially from a corrupt or oppressive government.
It is the only reason the second amendment is there, not for hunting and target shooting...not for fun.
Before you tell me the people in this country could not stand up to our military, consider this.
US Population: 330 million
Guns in the hands of private citizens: about 330 million
Active duty military: <1.4 million
U.S. land area: about 3.8 million square miles
To control a country, not defeat an opposing military force, you need people on the ground. Our military just isn't big enough to defeat the rest of the country, if it came to that.
If there aver was revolt against the government, you have to figure that a lot of military personnel would desert and fight with the people.
Remember, our military could not subdue Afghanistan, Iraq, or Viet Nam. We didn't try Japan's home islands. We dropped the bomb instead.
There are no such things as inalienable rights in this world, except within the context of our Constitution, and even those aren't real. You show me an "inalienable" right, and I'll show you a right that can be taken away.
The only rights that really exist are those that are given by others, and those that you take and defend for yourself.
As for the illegitimate use of firearms, that is a societal problem.
2
"a well-regulated militia", not "an un-regulated militia", nor "an over-regulated militia". Gun rights proponents should stop resisting all regulations and help to enact reasonable ones.
3
I am not against guns or gun ownership, but a little more common sense in legislation would go a long way to easing the tension on both sides. Before you can drive a car on the public roads ( no I don't mean the old truck around the farm) you have ti reach a certain age, take a test to prove you have the skill level so you don't endanger your fellow citizens. I mean operating a car/truck in an unsafe manner could kill people. If you have there perquisite skill level you are given a driver's license. If you want to drive a bigger vehicle like a semi / straight truck you take a different test. Once again to prove you have the knowledge and skill to handle the vehicle you are responsible for. So maybe, just maybe, having to qualify on the guns you want to own and operate should be handled that same way.
4
So 22,000 people showed up. Not the biggest protest action that I've ever seen. And I'm curious how many of those people came from Virginia and how many came from other states?
More striking is the photo of protesters dressed in military battle gear and carrying military weapons. Who are these people at war with? Us? The politicians? Or the people who voted them into office? These people are obviously there to intimidate the rest of us. It's not gonna work.
4
As an European, the American legislation for gun control has always looked a bit..."wonky" if I dare say, like a tool that doesn't really control anything.
How exactly the gun control laws ensure one's safety when they give the possibility to anyone (including mentally sick and/or challenged people) to buy a gun for 100 bucks?
I think that if one is a person of sound mind with a very clear idea on how they'll use their gun and if the new proposed laws are following the global approach towards guns, then there is no violation of anyone's rights. I can understand the purchase of a gun from an ex-military person who wants to shoot on the range, but please pass a psychologic evaluation which states that they don't have any mental illness and are no danger to anyone with a gun. I can also understand it for hunting: the same approach also applies. This is sensible, no?
But owning a gun just because and going to a peaceful protest with a sniper or a .50 caliber gun/rifle? That I don't understand. For what do you need any of those guns?
The laws should enforce a governance of gun ownership making sure that no person with possibility to harm others owns a mass-murder tool.
From this perspective I am happy I live in Europe and although we also have issues here, I know that we have some kind of governance over the ownership of guns and a gun shooting is an exception, not a norm...
(written from the perspective of an outsider)
2
There were 53,000 protesters at this event, not 22k.
The VA Legislature needs to reconsider their gun grab.
Article 1: Freedom of Speech
Article 2: The Right to Bear Arms
Both are a fundamental right for all US citizens explicitly formulated by the Founding Fathers.
It is this Constitution, the results of bloodshed for independence, that have made the country great. Those who try to change and undermine the Constitution, are only attempting to weaken those hard earned rights.
1
Message to gun owners:
You might put some of your energy in protecting the rights of children to eat, to have equal opportunities for safe housing and opportunity based education. Also, you might consider that your "right to bear arms" has been re-defined by a right wing inspired SCOTUS justice, not by the framers of the Constitution. The claim that guns protect our country is laughable. 1.4 million people died from firearms in the U.S. between 1968 and 2011. Tell the parents from the kids at Parkland, or the parents of the virtual babies in Sandy Hook. Guns in homes have killed toddlers, mothers, and those who suffer from depression. Andy by the way, no one is coming to get your guns.
If you try to say that regulation of guns is a slippery slope to regulating people...what about regulating boats, automobiles, motorcycles, drugs produced in other countries, food that otherwise might be contaminated?
I am sorry to sound intolerant, but guns ownership is a privilege, and all the rest of the people who don't own guns have rights too. As to Ar-15 and other weapons, if you want the "thrill" of using a weapon that is designed to kill an enemy, there are a ton of virtual reality video games you can employ.
A majority of Americans want gun ownership to be responsible, and to keep them and the homes they are in safe. They also want fewer of them on the streets, and without regulations that track weapons and restrict purchase to safe buyers, this will not happen.
3
Guns do not have rights, people do. We are ruled by the law, not by the end of a gun barrel.
The law protects our rights, not guns.
We can choose to outlaw assault style or military style weapons - and that does not limit a person's right own a gun.
It's pretty simple in my view.
1
About this proposed legislation, if it felt that this discussion were honest and dealt clearly with issues like hunting, police safety, simple self defense, and practicing at a rifle range, then it would become self evident that there really needs to be a distinction between the different firearms, what they are used for and who can own them. But this discussion is not honest. It is instead angry and volatile.
The right to have a gun is in the constitution. It is also an amendment that was put in place for reasons other than self-defense and protecting the nation; fear of the abolition of slavery was central in the crafting and intention of the amendment. As we have learned over the course of the history of our nation, even our constitution has flaws. This amendment as it currently exists is one of those flaws.
1
Though these people have the right to peaceful protest, I do not believe they truly understand what they are protesting. They are extremely fearful that their right to gun ownership is being stripped away, however, that is not the case. The proposed laws are sensible and basic regulations that could potentially prevent someone unfit to own a gun. These laws are especially needed in Virginia since just last year there was a shooting that killed 12 people. Protestors act as if they lived in 19th century America where self-defense is much more likely to be needed. Instead, people are using guns for malicious intent, which is the complete opposite of what they claim they need guns for. More people are being harmed than protected because basic gun regulations are not put into place. Education is the most powerful and efficient way to potentially end gun violence for future generations. There has been too much unnecessary death due to weapons getting into the wrong hands. Though it seems unfair that the actions of a few people abusing their right to own guns are affecting the rest of gun owners, preventative measures need to take place as more innocent lives will keep being taken. I think it is selfish for some of these people, especially those who are older, to be against gun regulation when it is the children who are being affected. There have been far too many school shootings and too many deaths of children who have not yet experienced life. They should be the main priority.
2
I find that showing up to a gun-rights rally armed with weapons undermines its intended purpose. With the existing negative perception of firearms, the terrifying sight of having thousands of people freely parade the streets with weapons of possible mass destruction instills greater fear in the public.
I agree that everyone has the right to protest, but whether or not I agree with what they are protesting against is another story.
I am on the side of enforcing stricter gun laws. I come from a country much smaller than the United States and even there, people do not always agree on the same things. In a state bigger than where I am from, I can only imagine that opinions are severely divided. Compromise, I believe, is key in this case. In today's world where we tend to think about ourselves, we must not forget to be compassionate. Everyone plays a role in creating a civil society.
Having stricter gun laws does not take away people's abilities to possess firearms completely. Allowing people to roam around without any restrictions on guns, however, could possibly take away someone's freedom to live completely. It might be harder to obtain guns, yes, but if it keeps people safer by a ton, I am all for it.
There is no doubt that guns have protected the country for a couple of hundred years. But it has also resulted in the loss of countless innocent lives in recent years. I believe that policies should be implemented with the times, and there is no better time than now to do so.
41
None of those weapons are “weapons of mass destruction” though.
If anything, this rally just shows how that many armed people can be free and walk around without any violence or issues coming out of it. It shows how the overwhelming majority of gun owners are responsible and law abiding citizens who are no threat to their fellow man.
To say that just because they would scare or intimidate people near them is enough reason to restrict them would be over reaching.
I'm a 22 year Army veteran, former Drill Sgt.,rifle range safety instructor, distinguished rifle marksman and gun owner. I enjoy going to the rifle range 2 or 3 times a year. I load one round at a time into my 20 round magazine and practice my skill on a paper target. Give me a good reason why I should not be able to own and use my AR-15 when I choose. Enforce the gun laws and prosecute the criminals. I am not a criminal and no law that the government can pass can not make me one! Leave me alone!
144
@Daveyboy You live in a society which imposes a social contract by majority will with rights for minors. Sorry but your right to bear and fire arms is limited by the will of people who do not want to be future victims of gun violence.
Sure folks like you have a sound argument for bearing arms and folks like you should be able to bear arms. But there are far, far too many who should never have a finger on the trigger and they are awash in guns.
293
@Daveyboy .... "Give me a good reason why I should not be able to own and use my AR-15 when I choose........1) Because the AR-15 is designed to kill lots of people very quickly and no rational civilian needs to kill lots of people very quickly. 2) Because the AR-15 attracts whakos and terrorists and is a primary weapon of choice for people intent on mass murders. 3) Anyone who seriously wants to practice marksmanship would use a bolt action rifle. Using an semi-automatic weapon makes absolutely no sense. None. 4) Whether you like it or not you are a member of a larger society and you have an obligation to that society.
468
@Daveyboy
"no law that the government can pass can not make me one" At least you got that part right - unintentionally.
49
"The measures limit purchases of handguns to one each month; require that gun buyers submit to background checks; and allow local governments to ban guns in parks and public buildings."
This is the feeblest attempt at gun control - a single person can still buy 12 handguns every year! - and yet the protesters claim its an unconstitutional attack on their rights. It is clear we are not dealing with a reasonable and thoughtful subset of the population. Even more reason to be terrified that they are armed to the teeth.
Isn't the military always looking for more soldiers? Perhaps the local law enforcement can point these 22,000 brave men and women to the nearest recruitment center.
58
The reason they don’t enlist in the military is because they are opposed to our country instead of willing to defend it. They want a revolution, which means to overthrow the government.
3
Question for 2nd amendment guys. If right to bear ANY arm is absolute because it is in the constitution, then violation of the Emoluments clause, Article one and Foreign influence clauses are inviolable. Therefore they should be arguing (with demonstrations) adamantly arguing for Trump's impeachment because his administration violates the constitution all the time
44
This is, like it or not, is democracy and or free speech on display.
Better to live in a country that not only tolerates, but makes way for, this type of gathering than not.
Good for us!
20
You can’t claim to be part of a nonviolent protest when you’re armed to the teeth.
4
The open carry laws enacted by so many states in our recent past were obviously set up by right wing politicians to scare the majority of the people in America to submit to a future of endless war, interracial hatred and corporate control. Today’s protest in Virginia is only the beginning. When the “stable genius” in the White House incites more and more people to bring their extremist views into the mainstream it’s only a matter of time until their guns will be used at the ballot box in November.
Unless the Senate has the guts to stop Trump in his tracks and hold a real impeachment trial - which isn’t likely - protests like this will get out of hand. Carrying semi-automatic weapons in a crowd of 22,000 people isn’t going to stay peaceful for long. Not if Mr. Trump continues to get away with his dangerous and unconstitutional actions.
27
Well. This reinforces my conviction that I won't make a trip to visit the US, or even pass through, if I can help it, any time soon. There are several reasons for this - current administration, unanswerable questions if asked about what I might have partaken of in the '70's. And now these pictures to remind me of how unsafe I could feel.
You don't care, and I can stay home? Sure. No problem.
38
Many gun owners claim that their guns are harmless, to be used for hunting and target shooting. Ok, but when a gun or thousands of guns are used to intimidate our government and its functions, it unveils the true intent of some, that is to use their weapons as vehicles of power and force against their fellow citizens. Is this the beginning of a militia meant to overthrow our rule of law and to over throw the constitution that protects your right to bare arms? Perhaps not, but the vision of your thousands surrounding a stat building creates those fears.
35
Its not being used to intimidate anyone. It’s a protest protected by the first amendment. If anything this further solidifies and proves the beauty of this country that you can be that free.
Your feelings do not matter as long as others rights are exercised properly.
1
Absolutely. Freedom of speech is one thing. Protest is one thing. Doing either with a gun in your hand is very much another thing: It’s a revolutionary threat. People tend to react to that a little differently than they do, say, 22,000 people flashing peace signs.
5
When I see photos of these (non-military) young men decked out in military gear trying to look as authoritative and intimidating as possible, all I see is insecurity. A desperate wish to be validated somehow. I can’t help but wonder whether any of them have much pride in other accomplishments. I’m not speaking of the protestors in general. Although I don’t agree with them, I have no problem with people coming out to express their views. But playing soldier is just childish wish fulfillment, but one that poses a real danger to innocent citizens.
69
They are immature people and this behaviour is the equivalent of dressing up like pirates for a children's party.
3
I’m a high school debate kid. I am not allowed to bring a club or gun or anything else that might be physically intimidating to a debate competition.
Let’s be honest, bringing weapons to a political protest reduces the chances of civil discourse as does wearing body armor and masks.
Seems like the pro unfettered 2 nd amendment gang want to bring about what they profess to worry about. Anarchy.
Ps they would lose any debate guns or no. That well regulated militia is a problem on the debate stage that they always lose to.
36
But it does not. It is an expression protected by the first and second amendment. It proves the point that that many armed and free people can rally together with no violence or issues at all. It is a particular political statement, not an intimidation tactic. All laws were followed.
7
The first amendment was for a well-regulated militia, not for people to march against their government. Arming lawless individuals against the government is probably treasonous.
3
Sorry...bringing weapons to a protest is intimidation. Full Stop.
3
No one is taking your guns. Background checks to purchase and restrictions on bringing guns into municipal buildings is not taking your guns.
26
Great that all these folks showed up with their guns so they could be on camera and have their faces entered into law enforcement databases to be recognized later by AI software. Thanks for helping that effort, people!
26
Whatever happened to States’ Rights that the so-called
“patriots” cherish so much? It’s the voters of VIrginia that elected the state legislature. It’s a VIrginia issue.
26
@Bob Well, apparently 100 cities, towns and counties in Virginia have voted to become gun sanctuaries and the local officials (cops and prosecutors) are pledging not to enforce the new gun control laws coming out of the state capital. I personally find this deliciously ironic given the immigration sanctuary movement.
I don't get it. Why don't we treat the rights to guns the same way we treat the right to drive cars. Cars can be lethal. So can guns. It would mean gun owners get the same kind of license needed to drive a car. Application, tests, a card that you carry with you. Nobody objects to having to have a driver's license. What's the problem? It oughta take us a good way to a solution.
30
Practically all mass killings are committed by gun owners. Those protesters have shot up a good part of America and caused untold trauma and suffering, all while preaching to people who mostly just want to live their lives in safety, that is only they, the gun owners, that can offer pure and total security and safety. This is simply some new kind of warped religion. No, I am not safer when training, licensing, and certification for firearms is disregarded.
18
22,000 people armed to the teeth with military assault weapons gathering in public sums up just how crazy and extreme the right wing has become in this country. The fact that this could even happen is utterly insane.
Contrast this with the Women’s March one day earlier, in which millions marched peacefully all over the country with no need for firearms or violence of any kind, and you’ll understand exactly which faction has become totally irrational and dangerous.
Anywhere but Virginia is where I’m very glad my family was while this was taking place.
36
There was a woman’s march?!
Wonder what trumped that in grabbing the media’s attention...
America is circling the drain. We just can't seem to evolve and protect what truly matters, life. Dragging around a gun or guns is a big clue that you're expecting trouble, or looking for trouble. What's wrong with living in peace? Where are the "pro-life" people? Shouldn't they be out there with their signs against weapons of death?
When did all the gun crazy start? I don't remember this many Americans being obsessed with guns and hate. But then, I grew up in New England.
19
Almost half the country voted for Trump. Many of those carrying those guns today probably voted for Trump. He won’t be impeached but they are worried. Maybe even scared. The democrats and previous republicans sure didn’t care about families who couldn’t put food on the table. Let alone pay their rent or get a job after the last recession. These gun owners represent fear. The majority of these gun owners are probably hard working Americans who love our country but not our govt. The majority are probably poor folks, struggling to pay bills, angry at their lack of education and chance to get ahead in this world. Not all of them but the majority of them feel their lives are out of control. Carrying those guns makes them feel like they still have some sense of control. It’s a false sense of control and it’s wrong and terrifying to someone like me It makes them look like crazy, nut jobs. But its all they have. That doesn’t make it right or even slightly rational but fear is a powerful motivator.
15
@Weiler
"Almost half the country voted for Trump."
Things are bad, but not that bad.
Of 230 million eligible voters in 2016, 63 million cast a ballot for Trump.
Nowhere near "almost half."
3
Actually, not that you would probably care, but only one quarter of the US electorate voted for Trump. Hardly overwhelming then.
4
Why are these dudes walking around in camo with their faces covered? Excuse me, but that smells of armed insurrection to me. Take off your masks and protest like a citizen should, openly, freely and coherently. When the second amendment encroaches upon the rights of all of the citizens of the United States, we need to amend those rights. We have an epidemic of mass killings in this country. If that reflects merely a "mental health "issue, then this demands a full blown restructuring of our health care system to address the problem. Not a fan of that either? Get real and get out of your own head. We need sensible gun laws or we will lose the right to bear arms.
29
@EAP If you have been reading about the protests in Hong Kong, you would be aware of the use of facial recognition by the Hong Kong government. This is a concern.
It was a terrible misstep to label those protestors "white nationalists". Just as calling those who hold different views on climate "deniers" (which resulted in the cause being set back a decade), this kind of hostility likely set the gun control debate back several years.
11
This is what Trump got excited about, so you would simply react without thinking with resulting possible violence. Trump has been trying to start an internal war since the day I saw him say there might be trouble if I'm not elected, back in 2016. Trump tried to excite you after being lured there by a former sheriff and now the authorities know who all you are and all your connections they will be looking for. You've been had by Trump. I'm not playing divide and conquer. I have practical experience with this national dragnet as a focus and victim of the government. We have all been had.
If you really care about your loved ones, calmly send them to live new lives in peaceful unarmed nations to prosper and be safe. The military is trying to spark unrest as an excuse to be an all powerful fascist military regime. You have guns, they have nukes. They've used them before so take my advice.
And thank you so much for a lack of violence so we still have freedom. Do you understand now?
3
Looks like some of the protesters made the case for the other side.
11
If this is what they mean when they say that "Virginia is for Lovers", then I think I'll take a pass.
5
Such a sad day for Richmond and for our country. I fear we are headed for a civil war and no one in Washington cares.
10
Today I celebrate the birthday of Robert Edward Lee of Old Virginia, a man of superior character and valor. More than respected across the South: he was loved. Not only for military prowess but his loyalty to his family, state and men. It's fair to say few who might read this have ANY factual knowledge of General Lee. So let me help you: obtain and read the four book series "R.E. Lee" by Douglas Southall Freeman. Mr. Freeman was awarded the Pulitzer Prize for his historical biography of R.E. Lee; as fine a piece of historical documentation as ever written.
Today the original Southern call for independence is mocked and Lee's name associated with slavery by a generation with no historical insight. That slavery is an evil, there is no doubt. At the same time, before you are quick to besmirch a man you never met and know nothing of, do yourself a favor: display the intellectual honesty required to wrap your mind around truth on truth's terms.
Thus before anyone surrenders to blind prejudice, to emotional myopia, to political manipulation, invest a bit of life force in acquisition of historical fact. Not just in regard to General Robert E. Lee, but across the board ... otherwise we are mindless puppets of cultural deception and manipulation. How can one trust and respect their own opinions without a firm foundation of factual evidence and intellectual honesty? Do your homework and you will be better for it.
3
In essence many, if not most, of these folks aren’t even residents of Virginia.
10
Seeing the photos of this protest- in addition to reading about the latest Presidential outrage - in addition to what appears to be a sham hearing effort in the Senate- in addition to reading about another shooting and I am so overwhelmingly tired, angered, unimpressed and uninspired by American men today as a whole on a day remembering a truly great American man.
22
Bravo to the peaceful demonstrators who objected to the new Dem lib government's blatant disregard of their constitutional rights. I would imagine many of them will become active in recalling as many Dem lib officials as they can.
6
Peaceful demonstrators don't carry guns.
3
@Stephanie Wood Smart ones do, Stephanie. Your position is typical of those who are Dem libs and know next to nothing about firearms. How many active shooter incidents could have been quickly brought to an end by an armed law-abiding citizen? "Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples’ liberty’s teeth." - George Washington... Stephanie, if you disagree with George Washington and the Founding Fathers you might be more comfortable emigrating to Mexico which has some of the most restrictive gun laws on the planet.
It is illegal to wear a bandana that covers,one face, so they arrested a woman. The men in the photo, three of them covering the face with a bandanna, did not get arrested. Maybe because they were men and heavily armed?
13
The US now has 1.2 guns per capita -- roughly 4x (or more) as many as any other industrialized nation. (Wikipedia, estimated guns per capita by country)
In the US, death by gunshot is 5x (or more) as common as it is in other developed nations.
( https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/14/upshot/compare-these-gun-death-rates-the-us-is-in-a-different-world.html )
Yet unrestricted-gun-rights advocates insist that having a gun makes one safer than not having a gun.
What threat do they fear? When has the US ever rounded up or harmed its own citizens? Apart from the events in Nazi Germany in the late 1930s through 1945, when has any developed nation ever rounded up or harmed its own citizens?
And if the US *did* mount an attack on its own citizens, just how is an armed citizen going to hold back an armored tank?
I am sick almost to death of this ongoing insanity; I am sick of living in a nation that is being held hostage by a minority that continues to behave like petulant teenagers when confronted with real problems -- the climate crisis, the health-insurance crisis, gun safety.
Deplorable, deplorable, deplorable -- and if they don't like being characterized thus, then they should stop behaving deplorably, in deplorably anti-social ways.
14
These people absolutely have a constitutional right to peacefully assemble, even though I think what they are practicing is gundolatry, not patriotism. My concern is, once Virginia voters decide, if things don't go their way, will their assemblies STAY peaceful. The very act of a mass gun march on the state capital has a threat implied.
Here's a New York Times article you may have missed that is massively important. "The Secretive Company That Might End Privacy as We Know It
A little-known start-up helps law enforcement match photos of unknown people to their online images — and “might lead to a dystopian future or something,” a backer says." https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/18/technology/clearview-privacy-facial-recognition.html?searchResultPosition=1
It's rallies like this one that start to make people sympathetic to having the "all knowing eye" of Clearview anywhere and everywhere.
3
The second amendment zealots just want their guns, period. They justify it, with nuanced reasons, after the fact.
4
The 2nd Amendment ratified in 1791, when guns took one minuet to load and shoot one shot. And what about that pesky "well-regulated Militia" part in the same one sentence. Shouldn't guns stores sell AR15s and bazookas? Those NRAers could really protect us at the malls with them babies.
Who needs 2 years of training to pack deadly weapons? Cops.
8
You really should be quicker and expand your comment capabilities as freedom is receding under Republicans.
McConnell blew a dog whistle a few hours ago when he set the date of opening arguments to Wednesday the 22nd, as in 22,000
This is how they operate, dates, names, places, maps.
4
This is scary! This is the United States of America?
I don’t understand the gun culture in this country.
Let these people play with their guns somewhere out in a field far from our towns and cities.
These people are terrorists. They are trying to scare all of us so that no sensible gun laws are passed!
10
If the Original Sin of America was Slavery and the Genocide
of the Native People's then the lasting sin of America
is the lack of Gun-Control.
No one needs a semi-automatic rifle.
No one needs a semi-automatic pistol.
Write a law that limits any rifle to a four cartridges capacity.
Write a law that limits any pistol to a four cartridge capacity and
that it has to be a revolver.
10
Who do these people carrying guns to a peaceful protest intend to defend themselves from? It's insane that they should mimic authorized military personnel.
10
I really do worry that the US is descending into a lawless, 3rd World country. I mean look at our government and the crazies carrying guns in the street and into Walmart. I'm glad that so many people would support me owning a box of grenades and maybe an antitank weapon. And my house is perfect for a cannon. After all, I'm a single female liberal who is fairly non-religious. So now that liberals are enemies and traitors according to the president, I guess I'm a target. But with my weapons and stuff, I could lob grenades down on all those crazy people threatening civil war. And then shoot at their pickup trucks with my cannon and antitank weapon. I mean 41-43 % of the nation is a lot of people to fend off with an AR-15. And until Civil War II happens, I could fend off the door-to-door salesmen.
10
There is symbolism in this so-called gun rally that goes way beyond concerns about Second Amendment rights and that symbolism is extremely ugly.
11
Someone needs to create an app to make guns completely inoperable. I'm looking at you, Gen Z.
4
Wow, it's almost as if white Republican owners of legal rifles aren't exactly the people committing the vast majority of gun murders ...
7
@Steve Sailer
"Stop-and-frisk" is not necessary to prevent gun murders with this group.
1
PBS somehow found the one black guy at the gun rally who said he had a God-given right to have his gun. I wanted to go through the TV screen and ask him where that passage is in the Bible. Ignorance makes strange bedfellows.
5
Isn't it funny how we keep score on who kills Americans. but if Americans kill Americans by gun it's just soooo patriotic it doesn't matter to us. But if 1 American dies by surrogate we must bomb Iran. Saudis always pay so they get a voucher/pass.
10
Nice. Picking the capitol of the Confederacy on MLK
day to protest guns.
11
I love Virginia. It's a great state. But I don't think permissive firearms purchase and ownership laws are what make it a great state. The landscape is beautiful, there are great wineries, the public university system is one of the better among the 50 states (UVA, George Mason, James Madison, Virginia Commonwealth, etc.) and the economy is prosperous in large part because of the state's proximity to Washington, DC and the resulting huge number of very well-educated and capable government employees who live in the counties of Northern Virginia.
I'm not sure what any of this prosperity in Virginia has to do with being able to walk into a gun shop and buy an AR-15 and ammunition no questions asked.
14
I'm grateful there was no violence today in Virginia, but I'm sure it was frightening for people in that area.
I know I feel less safe when I see people carrying guns. I'm grateful I live in a city where there is basic gun control.... I would certainly never move to a place where they were openly carried... I won't even visit such a place....
32
I'm totally anti-gun, but some day, I think it would be fun to arm all the homeless people in San Francisco. I won't visit Virginia again because of its propensity to violence, but San Francisco's economic violence against its people is just as horrible.
2
I can't believe twenty thousand civilians believe the Constitution gives them a right to own an assault rifle and parade around public streets with it. That's not just poor judgement: It's genuine insanity! And in a time when we need people to be standing up for important social issues like racial equality!
40
We should have total ban of guns in this country. Also, remove all guns from police, whose responsibility should be enforcing law and order, not killing civilians. There is no place for guns in civilized society.
18
@Kodali
And what about all the "bad guys" that already have guns or can always get them illegally? Since that's how the majority of those "bad guys" get them. The police should then enforce law and fight criminals with illegal fully automatic weapons using their nightsticks and whistles?
You've completely missed the point. All this "gun control" doesnt take the guns out of the hands of criminals or make it any tougher for criminals to get them. All it does is make it tougher for the legal, law abiding citizens to obtain them.
You saw this protest by law abiding, legal gun owners. Was anyone hurt? Now go back and look at some antifa "gatherings".
5
I come from a family of hunters. It’s an inexpensive way to fill the freezer for a lot of rural people. The hunters in my family are not NRA members and do not own automatic or semiautomatic weapons. They even support gun control laws. But if you had your way they could no longer own a hunting rifle to feed their family. I find that to be as unreasonable and overreactive as the NRA crowd.
2
Who ordered this militia?
19
I'm guessing thst all those protesters with those big caliber guns have, ummm.... very small hands.
38
@confounded
Ridiculing gun owners is so elitist.
5
@AACNY
I'm a gun owner and I find confounded's point funny. No intelligent person should be against background checks and keeping unstable persons and guns separated.
3
These protesters imagine themselves using their firearms to protect themselves and their families from such perceived threats as agents of the “deep state,” Muslim terrorists, and violent illegal immigrants. However, they are much more likely use their guns on themselves, considering the high and rising rates of suicide in the white male demographic to which they belong, and firearms as a common means of suicide. Based on current stats, it’s reasonable to expect that within 5 years a dozen or more of today’s marchers will have done away with themselves with guns—perhaps the weapons they displayed today.
24
@CA Meyer
Where's the link to this "research"?
You completely made up this anecdotal foolishness.
1
Nope, it’s real. Gun owners are 5 times more likely to be shot than non gun owners. People who live in a house where there is a gun are 10 times more likely to be shot, usually with the gun in that house. More guns in a town leads to more deaths by guns (both murder and suicide by gun). Just some basic, commonly known facts.
3
America, meet the American Taliban.
The always toxic mix of white nationalism, Trump conservatism, fundamentalist Christianity, conspiracy theories, and guns. Lots and lots of guns, paramilitary attire, and--despite their calm behavior--the clear threat of violence.
Yet these are American patriots while BLM, kneeling, healthcare, progressive taxes, etc. are all anti-American plots by socialists.
Like the Republican party, demographic changes are against them. Each year less-and-less people own guns, gun manufactures go bankrupt, and our laws inch closer and closer to more gun control.
If America really cared about the Second Amendment, Richmond and every urban center across the states would have had millions marching, instead of a measly 22,000 from the entire nation.
These marchers are the clear minority, but as their power erodes, I fear that their treat of violence will turn real and unleash a spasm of destruction.
38
@Jeong Yeob Kim
Many of the people in this even like me are Asian, or are African American or Hispanic Americans.
I guess you think we are all "white" nationalists.
2
A young cowboy named Billy Joe grew restless on the farm
A boy filled with wanderlust who really meant no harm
He changed his clothes and shined his boots
And combed his dark hair down
And his mother cried as he walked out
"Don't take your guns to town, son
Leave your guns at home, Bill
Don't take your guns to town" - JOHNNY CASH
12
Something else to note in regards to these right-wing militias is the use of the name "The Base." That is the literal meaning of "Al-Qaeda." This use of the same name suggests that these right-wing extremists and Neo-Nazis are imitating that very dangerous movement. You can verify this by looking up origins of Al-Qaeda and meaning of the name. See for example https://www.collinsdictiona... , where it is noted, "Word origin: from Arabic 'the base.' "
14
The NRA is a terrorist organization.
The intent of showing up with these guns at their behest is to intimidate us.
That sheriff needs to be arrested and removed/prohibited from holding office.
This phony gun rights hoopla, they had "rallies" all over the country, is invented by the republicans to start a different "talking point" to distract you from Trump's and their obvious guilt.
Count on it becoming another fake issue for the election in November.
28
@magicisnotreal
Soon reporter's in mock innocence will be asking democratic candidates to comment on the fake talking points raised by this GOP endeavor.
Too bad these wonderful people are not versed in the 13th, 14th and 15th amendments. And the establishment clause. And Scalia writing for the Court in Heller on the limits of Second Amendment.
Putin must be so proud today. Americans doing his dirty work. Not proud? The Americans who served as anti-Fascists in WWII.
Oh, and from appearances, these folks are very versed in the 21st Amendment.
10
@James J not everything is a Russian plot, my guy.
2
"I only have a scoped .50 caliber sniper rifle because I'm paranoid about someone taking it away from me!" - Oh, perfect.
14
America is absolutely a scary place to live. This makes me not want to leave my house.
11
Wow! They look so tough and heroic with their guns and gear.
Would they consider perhaps helping out the country in Afghanistan or Iraq?!
Or, do they just like to dress up?!
31
Little boys playing war. Using an 18th century statue for a militia to excuse their game. Time to grow up, Boys!
25
I don’t understand. Didn’t Obama take every gun?
23
Poor People's March. Poor People's Campaign. Oakland's Homeless Mothers. All these people are barely surviving and at the same time, Boys With Toys occupy the front page of the newspaper displaying their love on this planet, in this nation, flawed yet with all capability to provide health and security for those without Bush Tax Cuts, but yonder stand the boys with their toys believing in themselves and their ideas of violence against others as a daily habit they bring to the Capital of Virginia while others starve for food. It is genocide, a final solution is what these boys have in mind.
6
@Guy Walker
Oakland and Calfornia are deep blue. How could there be "homeless" mothers?
1
It's ironic that as often as people here complain about a looming totalitarian/facist state, y'all fail to recognize that the first step in implementing one has always been to remove the right of the people to arm themselves.
8
Try to imagine what would have happened if 20,000 people — many of them with a darker skin tone — had shown up for a civil rights rally armed to the teeth and in military regalia, as these bozos did. Do you think the constabulary would have just stood and watched, studiously avoiding rubbing them the wrong way?
The fact that those who oppose these armed extremists stayed home rather than appear in protest, to avoid being drawn into violent confrontation, speaks volumes as well. We, the vast majority of peaceful, unarmed Americans, have been browbeaten into submission and silence by the threat of armed violence by the belligerent few.
And to think the big baboon in the White House tried to pour gasoline on this fire with his ‘they’re coming for your guns’ nonsense.
This nation is in a world of hurt.
43
@chambolle
That's some imagination. Always worst case scenario.
3
Is it normal in America for grown men to play solider like eight-year old boys?
24
Actually ...Yes!
5
The entire spectacle reminded me of my childhood in the late 1940’s and early 1950’s when we played at war against the Germans and Koreans, pointing our flesh gun hand at each other and saying “Bang, bang... you’re dead.” To which the ‘enemy’ (aka friend) you were shooting at would invariably reply “No I’m not, you missed me.” And off everyone would run. Well, the children are still here only now they are carrying real guns and threatening all who oppose their mental illness with real death. It’s time for the adults to take their guns and put them to bed. Amend the 2nd Amendment and stop the gun slaughter and madness in our nation. One last thought, why were 99 % of the protestors white? Is it their collective sin that drives their fear? Are they armed to kill their sin, or hide it?
20
He said it, unempathetic Boys playing dress up "Army Guys" with weapons that are slaughtering people.
12
These whining white men need purposes for their lives. I would suggest some combination of whisky and women, ballgames and bookstores, travel and fine food, just for starters, preferably preceded by a job -- gainful employment. The Gun Of The Month Club they're members of in Virginia is obviously not getting the job done.
14
Guns destroy our freedom by denying the right to live free from fear of easy violent death.
Guns make America weak by destroying tens of thousands of productive lives every single year.
Guns are America's everlasting tragedy and disgrace!
22
Isn't it funny that Antifa never turn up where people can protect themselves.
5
@Mr Chang Shih An
Hard to not contrast this massive rally of mature and responsible adults with the behavior of those violent leftwing protestors.
2
@Mr Chang Shih An
Sorry, but accorinding to an eye witness acquaitance, ANTIFA was there, in soldidartity with the anti-government crowd.
1
The gun culture in our country has gotten exponentially insane with every passing year since the NRA decided to hype the 2nd amendment in the 70s. These folks (and their ideology) we see today at the rally are not unlike the extremist, violent religious zealots we criticize in the Middle East like Daesh, al Qaeda, or the Taliban.
They want no sane safety measures, no compromise, and have visions of being the next Dirty Harry dancing in their heads ("Do you feel lucky punk? Well, do you?).
They use explosive, hystrionic, fear driven divisive language and have no rational thought behind their stated positions other than the unstable paranoia of their perverted interpretation of the 2nd, and their desire to keep deadly force (such as convertible semis and virtually unlimited clips) accessible to the hands of the mentally unstable.
A "law abiding gun owner" is "law abiding", until he isn't.
We're the only civilized country on the planet that allows this, and has a major political party that runs interference for it.
I realized in the aftermath of Sandy Hook that fixing this was a lost cause.
20
Gun extremists are a direct threat to law and order.
16
Hey GI Joes! Is the camouflage supposed to make you invisible? Doesn’t seem to be working
11
Is this the Russian backed Texas separatists?
6
Masked men legally carrying loaded assault weapons on MLK Day sends a nice message to African Americans.
15
Exactly as they intended.
6
@Hector: No coincidence either that this gathering was held in Richmond, one of the capitals of the Confederacy. If I recall correctly, the Confederate Congress convened in the Virginia State Capitol Building. “The South shall rise again,” remember?
Think I’ll play “The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down” for good measure.
2
Per § 18.2-422 of Virginia code, it's illegal to wear a mask in public, and yet a lot of these burly white fellows with enormous firearms wearing paramilitary gear seem to be doing so today with impunity, while an unarmed young woman with a slight build who appears to be a counter-protestor is the only one who gets arrested for a face covering? Hmm.
19
They have no clue and could care less how stupid and juvenile they look, and to be sure they’re dangerous, just not for the reasons they dress up, and they’ll take down or take out anyone whoever he or she is, however helpless, or whatever age if only to prove that they’re pawns of a fraud, just like the corporate fools who put him where he is and where they are today. They couldn’t win elections, to suit their charade, so they stole them, and hypocrisy and fear are writ huge over every face, and impunity and entitlement are their motive and goal.
10
Contrary to the believe of many of you, which am sure you aren’t happy that the protest was not violent, there were other people that were not white, there were Hispanics and Asians and African Americans there, there were gay people and there were women. 2A rights is not a white people problem only, it is also a minority problem.
Sorry that the protest turned out to be non-violent and you hateful bunch have to find something else to talk about.
3
The media scaremongers overacted as usual. This has grown so tiresome.
4
The media scaremongers overacted as usual. This has grown so tiresome.
5
There is no question in my mind that many members of the media were hoping for a roving band of jerks show up wearing swastikas and/or klan outfits (that was the governor by the way), with confrontations and perhaps a couple of deaths. I honestly believe that. Turned out to be a nothing burger.
3
@Erik
It would have been better if the media just ignored the protest instead of giving them free publicity.
2
Where the Wimmin’ at ????
Explains a lot, doesn’t it ?
10
This country is toast.
8
Most of the protestors are proud GOP voters. You know, the ones who support states' rights -- except when they don't. So here we have plenty of the 22,000 from out of state trying to influence what goes on in Virginia, because they didn't like the outcome of last year's election.
It's the same kind of off-kilter GOP logic that said two recent presidents who won the electoral college but lost the popular vote somehow had a "mandate" to govern and neither they nor their counterparts in Congress need ever cross the aisle.
15
Many writers claim that other countries that strictly enforce heavy restrictions of gun ownership are far safer than the United States. That is a false and mislead statement. Countries like Mexico, the Philippines and many others where guns are restricted have tens of thousands of deaths of innocent civilians by drug cartels, and government forces that run amok too. An armed citizen can defend him or her self. A disarmed citizen is just one more victim. Look at the slaughter of the dictators in the Mideast, Africa, South America and in Asia too. It's a blood bath because the citizens cannot defend themselves.
Look that the demagogues and dictators that rule all through South American and African countries. Look how many thousands have been slaughtered not just by criminals and gangs but also by government forces!
The founding fathers had in mind that the citizens of the new nation should be, collectively more powerful than the government. For that reason they opposed creation of a monarchy and a standing army. Militias were part of the Colonies long before the Revolution. The were formed not only for defense but also for offense. American militia forces fought with the British against the French and Indians in 1757 only 19 years before the Revolution. And they defended communities long before that.
The right to bear arms is enshrined in the Constitution for many valid reasons still valid today. Understand and respect our "right" to bear arms.
8
Approximately 75,000 illegal guns are in the hands of Mexican drug cartels. You wanna take a guess from which country that borders Mexico those guns came from?
The good ole USA!
15
It’s misleading a inaccurate to compare economically and educationally deprived countries to the situation at work in the United States in term of gun violence.
Keep and enjoy your guns. Protect yourself reasonable means. However, many of your fellow countrymen don’t believe that sad superior firepower is the the answer to this plague.
5
@Jack Frost
That is mostly fiction.
The nations where rule of law is functional have safer societies. The nations where they were like us freer with gun rights, AUS and NZ, that chose to restrict them after a single mass shooting, are not now or likely to ever be less free or any different except for being more safe than they were.
There is no rational need for these military weapons to be in civilian hands.
14
Richmond avoided becoming another Charlottesville due to the mature and well founded actions of state and local government, law enforcement, and Virginians who know the real power in addressing gun control is in the ballot box. Thanks go to the brave and tempered officials and law enforcement contributed to today’s peaceful demonstration in the face of heavily armed protesters.
10
A uniquely American phenomenon. Most other civilized societies have figured out that allowing virtually unrestricted access to guns leads to more deaths..like about a hundred years ago! ( well ..the Aussies were kind of late to the game but they got there) This is right up there with the Saudis not allowing women to drive...but at least they sort of fixed this in 2018! Depending on the year about 20,000 to 30,000 Americans lose their lives needlessly because of lack of Federal level gun control pursued over long time frames. This is a low-hanging fruit kind of problem but I have zero expectation that it is going to get fixed anytime soon.
14
Yeah yeah, we get it. You like your semi-automatics over and above the rights of others to stay alive in our schools, movie theaters, offices, Walmarts, or food festivals (among other places).
If a person wants to walk around with a weapon that can kill multiple people in a few seconds, why not join the military, or an overseas militia group? See the world, and exercise that trigger finger while you're at it.
22
Glad people care about something enough to protest—too bad this is it.
5
Supposedly the US is the only country in the world which has a constitution that includes the right to bear arms, although the phrase a well-regulated militia in the Second Amendment makes it ambiguous as to who this right actually applies to. In any case, the number of gun fatalities in various countries seems to correlate only with the number of guns in the possession of private citizens. With gun fatalities now surpassing traffic fatalities in the US it seems hard to deny that this country has a gun problem. It is understandable that at least Democratic legislators and governors want to do something to address this problem to save lives.
6
It was nice that the media hype about this rally proved to be false. These people were peacefully assembling, protesting, speaking truth to power, as the saying goes. This is protected by the US Constitution. So is the peaceful possession of firearms. This state allows open carry. Some do not and there is room to argue about effective gun control laws.
22,000 protesters and no arrests and no injuries. People may not agree with their position on guns but we should all be pleased that they were well-behaved.
5
22,000 looks imposing in the state capitol. It's just the equivalent of one town in the state of Virginia-- or any state. Virginia gun lovers were reinforced by gun lovers from other states all over the country, which makes it an even smaller town. These gun lovers are a very loud and very intimidating armed minority. The rest of us, the majority of us, want sensible gun control laws to curb the worst excesses, the heinous crimes committed against innocent citizens in "soft targets" like schools and churches and concerts and shopping centers. No one wants to repeal their 2nd Amendment rights and take away their guns, but most of us want their gun responsibilities enforced more stringently as we have too much evidence that many of them are not responsible gun owners. Let's not let this loud and intimidating armed minority infringe on our right to life, our reasonable expectation of public safety, and our common good.
13
I think the most frightening thing about this event is the estimated 22,000 people, most presumably pro-gun ownership, who attended. How are all of them going to vote in November? How does anyone think it is appropriate to own an assault weapon or carry one hidden in public as a regular citizen? I would not deny hunters or people who enjoy the rifle range their "sports," but owning weapons of war and concealed carrying of guns simply can't be beneficial to American society, or our children.
7
Texas recently passed legislation allowing concealed carry in a church if that is approved by the members of the congregation. About a week ago, an enraged and violent man, for whatever reason took his concealed weapon to the church intent upon wreaking death and havoc on people who he probably believed would have been easy prey. The man, who never should have ever had a gun in his possession, opened fire, killing two congregants before one licensed concealed carrying church member felled him with a single shot. A total of 7 members of the church were video recorded drawing their licensed weapons and charging to the defense of the congregation.
Say what you will but legal concealed carry saved lives. The problem wasn't the gun that was carried. The problem was the man carrying it. This newspaper, the NYT usually fails to publish the number of lives saved by armed citizens. People routinely defend themselves and others using licensed concealed carry weapons or weapons kept in their homes. It is not far-fetched or once in a while. Armed citizens are critical in defense of our homes, work places, parks, hospitals, businesses, and places of worship. The police, as good and dedicated as they are cannot be everywhere and cannot respond quickly enough. Let the criminals beware and be afraid. The Constitutional right to bear arms is even more relevant in today's America. Let's go after the criminals. They are the problem. Guns save lives threatened by criminals.
5
Although gruesome, perhaps it is time the media begins sharing pictures of people wounded or killed by firearms. There’s nothing glorious about it.
12
@Patagonia
I think we can get em all to make some kind of reality show. that will reveal what needs to be seen by those who somehow do not see it right now.
1
Real men don't need camouflaged outfits, rifles, sidearms and masks to stand up for their rights.
23
Bless their little hearts.
And any woman who has the misfortune of coming in contact with any one of them.
13
I'd like my conservative, second amendment supporting friends to imagine that these protesters in full battle rattle were Black Panthers, ANTIFA sympathizers, or Arab Power demonstrators instead. Imagine they are threatening to overthrow the government if certain laws are passed? Not so good, is it? Bringing weapons of any kind to a protest isn't free speech, it's intimidation! And remember that after the Panthers started parading with assault weapons, Ronald Reagan pushed a ban through as Governor of California.
15
"...a flag with the president’s head photoshopped on Rambo, occasionally drove past the entrance of the Capitol grounds and was greeted with cheers from the crowd."
Much of our country has officially gone insane.
20
When I think back to the phenomenal womens march of 2017 this seems pathetic by comparison, and by doing it on MLK day these people show their true colors.
11
I have a concealed carry license, as does my wife. We both believe in far stricter gun control legislation. Neither of us believe we'd be a match for the mighty US military. The people at this rally are delusional, willfully ignorant, or both.
12
These guys in camo dress up are the right wing fringe wingnut equivalent of the Village People. Dangerous, quite possibly, but not to be taken as representative of anything well reasoned, thought out or philosophical. It's a Halloween Carnival for the deeply insecure.
6
How does universal background checks morph into no knock door kick in confiscation. People who own guns seem to have a need for high drama. A peaceful rally is appreciated. The militias in camo give some sense of how tight a grip the NRA has on many Americans. Gun regulation to prevent psychos from getting guns will not be easy it seems. Relent on the easy stuff, guys and dolls. Nobody is trying to take your precious guns away.
5
Can we kindly adjust the proportions here for a comparison?
NYT- how about a graphic?
4-5 MILLION people showed for the 2017 Women's March.
What 22K people getting this much attention means is that our Congress is owned by a dinosaur of a lobby - Wayne LaPierre's paycheck lobby. Trump's fear lobby. It is time to tell these folks to get real for once. There is no boogeyman taking guns away. We literally have grown men play-acting.
How many times bigger is 5 million than 22K - my calculator says 227 X as large. Can the rest of America get some attention for once.
17
Nothing ended up happening and it was peaceful.
Expect the story to be dropped tomorrow.
5
There's something about adult men who have to dress up and play soldiers that indicates something lacking in their lives.
19
You know how you get state gun laws?
Follow the example of California.
They weren't interested in gun laws.
Then the Black Panthers showed up at the State Capitol.
Fully armed. Legally.
Suddenly there was a great interest in gun control.
15
@Steve Fankuchen
Oh yea I forgot about that. Ol ronnie wasn't havin none of that now was he? My favorite part was how they followed the police around to monitor how they conducted themselves. For a very short period of time the tables were turned!
4
@magicisnotreal
That was a generation which to its opposition to the streets, not the internet.
1
You know how you get state gun laws?
Follow the example of California.
They weren't interested in gun laws.
Then the Black Panthers showed up at the State Capitol.
Fully armed. Legally.
Suddenly there was a great interest in gun control.
3
I find it terrifying.Carrying guns outside- to a protest-or to anywhere.As a Canadian,it's seems mad.
12
Go hunting! How do these groups have so much artillery, so many war vehicles, and why do they hide behind dark glasses and face covers? Frankly they look ridiculous marching around city streets with their undoubtedly expensive props.
10
They look like folks from Cormac McCarthy’s The Road.
4
No liquor stores robbed. No cars burned. No shops looted. No one beaten.
Yup, definitely not a BLM or an Antifa rally.
8
Far too small of a protest. Like comparing apples and oranges. How much violence happened at the women’s march which had millions of participants?
3
I love the guy in the pic dishonoring the American Flag by wrapping it around his face as a mask. All of these guys look very needy for attention. Someone please give them a hug.
11
I suggest listening to Bundyville season 1 and 2. Brilliant podcast about the sovereign citizens, the militia movement, the Bundys and the weird connective tissue between these extreme groups and extremist religiosity.
https://www.opb.org/news/article/bundyville-occupation-podcast/
Virginia is leading the way to sensible gun laws and gun ownership.
6
I can't take this nonsense violence (carrying a gun is violent act)
I just watched a few Mr. Rodgers videos on youtube. I feel better.
5
Please. Dear God can we please get rid of this nightmare! Impeach, or in some other way, please. Please. End this scary bad bad thing.
7
Interesting that the NYTimes didn't bother to mention that today is called Lobby Day (a state capitol tradition) until the very end of the article. It would have been helpful to many readers if this was reported pretty much in the opening paragraph. Virginians are allowed to lobby state legislators in January every year. Coincidentally, it happen to fall upon MLK day. Gun rights advocates scared off other lobbying efforts once the governor declared a state of emergency based on rumors of trouble brewing. The national media simply called it a gun rally and this left the entire stage for 2nd amendment protestors. Nothing happened. Just images of MAGA white guys dressed in camo gear with telescopic lenses and the latest equipment from the army & navy store.
4
Why do these gun loving thugs have a right to come to Virginia in the first place? It is not their state and to me they are very threatening and they worst of all are empowered by DJT. The fact that these people do not allow those who are elected to do their job, that is to propose legislation...since it does not agree with them. This issue is very dangerous now I feel thanks to this government (of Trump) and his very violent rhetoric.
6
So~ they have guns, ready to shoot people, for not letting them have too many guns, to shoot people...But you can only shoot one gun at a time! So shooting people, with one gun at a time, to defend your rights to have too many guns, to shoot people who won't let them have too many guns, while just shooting one gun at a time...I guess it makes sense to them.
Methinks they'd rather have several more sets of arms and hands attached to their bodies, then they could shoot several more guns all at once~ now wouldn't that be something!
But, I see a dog, or quite a few very sick dogs, chasing their own tails here.
6
People who are so enthralled with military weapons such as assault rifles should volunteer in the real combat zones that at their home towns
5
Judging from some of the comments, I disagree that it was racist. Because MLK is honored with a holiday, many people pro and con guns had the day off and could travel So maybe that was why today was picked.
4
The pre event reporting on this story was appalling. The media wanted violence to continue their mantra of falsehoods. Time and again left wing protests include violence and looting. When was the last time there was mischief at a pro life rally? Never. Antifa protests....always violence.
4
You’re right. The far right just commit murder at their rallies, or go into Walmarts to slaughter children, or send bombs to Democratic politicians, or are domestic terrorists arrested by the FBI for plotting mass murder.
The idiotic Antifa should never light a car on fire, but to call out the left for violence when the violence on the right is disproportionately (massively) greater is just dishonest and wrong.
8
I can't help notice from the pictures that many of the protesters are too cowardly to show their faces. Is that what being a "real man" is about?
13
If only these good brave men would take off their costumes, enlist in the armed services, and fight for America and her allies...
11
The laws passed in Virginia: A limit to one handgun purchase per month, a requirement for universal background checks on gun sales and a rule allowing localities to ban guns in some public areas.
Where, in these 3 laws, does it say guns are being taken away? Where is it said that "war" is being declared against gun owners in VA? Nowhere.
The collective hysteria of gun rights people is either due to poor reading comprehension and/or an intentional misrepresentation of the facts to rally support. No one is coming to take your guns away. One of the laws specifically permits a pistol purchase every month in fact! Wow, assuming starting at 20 yrs old, living to 100, you're going to get to own 960 pistols by the time you die!! Freedom!!!!
Everyone should be very afraid that one political party's members own the majority of the guns in this country, and they are so easily influenced by lies, misinformation, and conspiracy theories.
8
It's a somewhat startling reality the cover photo sums up the look of middle America.
5
Not really, in middle America, someone would be driving a tractor.
1
It is a blatant insult to MLK that these goons have come out to rally. These people are consistently crossing the lines of civility and getting away with it. This cannot go on.
2
People who are so possessed with assault rifles should volunteer at war zones not conceal their cowardice at their home towns
6
I don't own a gun now but this has inspired me to buy one or more before democrats find a way to outlaw them.
3
These guys look so fierce with their body armor and assault rifles. If we send these militia men to the mid-East, the Taliban, ISIS, etc. would give up immediately. Let's get our best shots over there.
8
As usual whenever they get a majority demcrats start ramming their lifestyle laws down the throats of their constituents, a la Obamacare. Not sure what motivates someone to want to control others lives to such a degree. Gun control? These people demonstrating are the ones who follow the rules. Criminals don't license their guns, so if you really want to do something about gun violence go after them. Yeah, that's too hard. The only good news here is that demcrat overreach always causes a reverse reaction, and then they wonder why they lose. Try running your own lives please and stay out of mine.
5
Actually, the losers are the ones who give in to the right wing propaganda. The winners are the gun manufacturers. They have you right where they want you. Ka-ching!
6
Never before have so many involuntarily celebate males gathered together in one place!
They should consider loosening restrictions on prostitution and viagra in exchange for some (obviously long overdue) common sense gun controls.
5
I support each and every one of these Patriots in their support of the Second Amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America. The right to bear arms is a necessary corollary to the First Amendment, the right to free speech and assembly, which is gradually being taken away across America, especially on the nation's college campuses. Both of the rights need to be defended by any measures necessary. Thank you.
7
@Southern Boy
forgot the link
https://www.archives.gov/founding-docs/bill-of-rights-transcript
1
@Southern Boy
The "right to bear arms" is actually the right to join the army. It was common at the time of the founding for national armies to prohibit minority groups in their nation from serving.
Give the original list of amendments and the final copy a read. It is very clear in both that the militia is what is today called the US Army.
11
Those who do not reside and vote in Virginia are not affected by any decision made by the VA legislature, nor are they entitled to a view on policy in a state in which they neither reside nor vote.
7
@expat
The same can be said about legal challenges to state laws. Because those outside that state are not affected, they should have no input to the legal challenge. But that is not the case. People, especially State Attorney Generals, from other states are permitted to file Amicus briefs all the time. The fact is, what happens in one state is likely to influence legislators in other states. That is reality.
2
@RM
Attorneys General, not "Attorney Generals".
Well, my expat friend, there’s this little thing called Free Speech...
2
Whether or not we support gun control, we feed this culture by being obeisant consumers. The gun lobby is just another group of businesses who want to sell us stuff we don’t need. You may prefer cookware or couture, but we’re all complicit in creating a consumerist society in which our economy is heavily reliant on non-necessity spending. That’s our religion.
3
The intensity over the second amendment has escalated since Trump took office. Periodically, he makes mention of how his base will respond if he is impeached. Sounds like a threat and a plan.
3
I hope the sight of heavily armed and disgruntled civilians walking down the streets of Richmond backfires on these gun activists, and that instead it will increase calls for responsible gun regulation, including a permanent ban on military-style assault weapons in civilian hands.
I worry about the psychological well-being of people who think that the unregulated and unimpeded ownership of semi-automatic weapons, and many of them, is a reasonable response to any problem whatsoever.
10
I'm so surprised to learn that Virginia has such a loud pro-gun population. I thought that the gun culture had something to do with the culture of the West and the Southwest. When the long rifles of the men of Kentucky and Missouri formed the most feared infantry in the world: able to take out an enemy officer at the length of two football fields.
Not that I really understood why those people still worshipped their guns hundreds of years after the fact.
Virginia I thought was a modern industrial state adjacent to the seat of power in the United States. Even when the Civil War broke out, Virginia was the only Southern state with any capacity for heavy industry. Cannon and Warships.
I was also surprised to learn of the large percentage of guns that were owned by women. At least 35%. The only way any of this makes sense is if people fear personal attacks against their persons and property. But, no matter how many still go around crying "racist," we don't hear much anymore about attacks or city riots made by bitter and envious minorities.
I here will insert that we may be building more angry and envious groups of young white men and black men by ignoring the over-decade long under-enrollment in college of young white and black high school graduates. A ten million a year difference in enrollment that will lead to a dangerous underclass of angry whites and black. But these boys have no constituency or lobbies working on their behalf, so nothing is done.
Proud to be an American right now. They say "sensible gun control," but remember what Beto said. Any gun control will be a precursor to confiscation.
7
@Sam Lubje
And "Beto" is in a position to enforce that how?
4
The Second Amendment is clear that the right to bear arms is within the context of a "well-regulated militia". It, like every other right in the Bill of Rights, is not an absolute right. The measures being considered by the Virginia Legislature are modest and reasonable.
Meanwhile the gun manufacturers will rake in millions more in gun sales while laughing at the ease with which they manipulate these protesters with yet another example of false alarm hysteria.
5
Of all the things to take the streets for, they chose this one. I'd hate to see the rest of their list of political priorities.
3
The American Revolution was not prompted by the desire for guns in private hands. During the time Washington was in the colonial military, he frequently complained that colonialists would come to the militias without arms. See Washington Irving "Washington" five volumes.
2
These armed demonstrators and so-called militia members are the best advertisements gun control advocates could ask for. I especially like the ones sporting tactical gear and helmets like they’re on foot patrol in Fallujah rather than walking around Richmond. Most people who see that will conclude we need more gun control rather than less.
12
Guns are banned from Trump rallies.
I have not heard his very base, base say they will not comply.
8
I've never owned a gun and never needed one even though I've lived in some of the most dangerous places in the world.
All my life I've known people who love guns. Some of them love guns because the love to kill innocent, unarmed animals in the animal's habitat.
Others love guns because the gun gives them the power to end other people's lives. It makes them feel stronger and more assertive.
I know people who fetishize guns, lovingly describing the killing power of their weapons.
When you see gangs of face-covered people armed with semi-automatic weapons aggressively parading around on MLK holiday, you're seeing another sign that America is in deep trouble.
15
@Steve Davies
Maybe they read the Times article a day or two back of how the Chinese use facial recognition software to identify everyone in a mass photograph of a crowd.
I am -so- impressed that these men (mostly men in every picture I see) have the courage to drive for hours, and then kit up and stand outside, in the open, where they might be attacked. Thankfully they have their AR-15s, their multiple magazines, and their laser sights, in case *something happens* that might need them defending themselves.
What must it be like to live so sure that 'things will go wrong' and 'something might happen' or 'they will come to get me and my guns' -- so full of fear that you have to arm up and "defend myself" from, well, whatever might happen? Here in the "liberal" wasteland of California, I think I'll place my faith and my security in the hands of our highly-professional and well-trained police. They're not perfect, but somehow I think they are more level headed and 'fair and balanced' than many who fear everything within range of their guns.
And before you protest that you're "not afraid of anything" - why then do you need those guns?
5
@Jim Brokaw
Where I live, out in the boonies of Vermont, there are no local police. If you call 911, especially at night, you might get a police response in 90 minutes or so.
This show is of to intimidation to every normal citizen who believes in safe school, safe city and safe homes leading towards a just safe society.
These people do not believe in peaceful protest.. they bring fire power with them because they have no real argument except bullets.
What do they want to achieve? a show or a peaceful co-existence for all? answer is clear from their side..
7
No restriction gun rights individuals have a twisted interpretation of the 2nd amendment, with no acknowledgement of how destructive firearms are in present day compared to 1787. Our country has also grown in population drastically and some of these people aren't playing with a full deck. Why should the disturbed have unrestricted access to a gun?
I ask, why is it our children's lives are worth the sacrifice for no restriction gun laws? In a sane country, one mass shooting is enough. New Zealand took immediate action after they experienced a mass shooting. New Zealand's Prime Minister is also a women. They seem to be progressing on two fronts in New Zealand while America seems to be regressing.
5
No better argument for gun control than the photos in this story. These military wannabes and such give responsible gun owners a bad name.
I am an NRA member, hunter and military veteran.
I fully support background checks, limits on magazine sizes and more.
14
Ever wonder why there is no mention of regulation in the First Amendment but there is in the Second?
6
Hate to break it to you, gun fans, but you are outnumbered. Most of the US supports gun control.
No reason for assault weapons. And no reason you can't have a waiting period or background check.
10
What legislators fail to understand is that the problem is not so-called assault rifles. The most fearsome weapon is the easily concealable and transportable small caliber handgun. The FBI Uniform Crime Report, published annually with data provided by the States, clearly shows that in the last 10 years more than 400,000 Americans have been killed by handguns! Half of those deaths were suicides. In that same decade only (not said as if they don't matter) about 300 people have been killed by AR and AK type rifles. No one has been reported killed by a .50 caliber sniper weapon. If we're going to have sensible, enforceable and equitable gun laws, let's focus on the guns that and people that are doing the most killing. I suggest that no handguns ever be sold to former criminals. No one under 25 should ever be allowed to purchase a handgun least of all carry one. Saturday night specials, that is cheap, small handguns of any caliber should be illegal for any reason and we should demand they be turned in. The lowly .22 pistol is perhaps the most dangerous and should be prohibited for concealed carry. I would extend that to .32 caliber, and .380 caliber too. I would also ban the 5.7 X28 caliber which is essentially a rifle caliber but is used in pistols. Let's focus on the real problem firearms and let's go after criminals not innocent civilians. Leave the ARs and AK weapons alone. Get rid of the junk guns. They are the killing machines. And make criminals pay a steep price.
3
The people in the photos look very sad. It is a crying shame that their lives have devolved to valuing guns over people, because its essentially what they're rallying for.
10
I get the whole 'parading around with a gun' thing. It's happened sporadically throughout my lifetime. What I don't get is the tendency of today's gun folks to dress up as the troops? They're all in military fatigues and camouflage and whatnot. What's the deal? Are these paramilitary groups? If so, then we as a nation probably need to have a serious discussion about the fact that we now have paramilitary groups freely parading on our streets. That's a new one. Or is it just grown adult men dressing up and playing make-believe? If that's the case, how depressing. I'm generally sympathetic to gun rights advocates (the not-nutty ones), but this soldier cosplay thing is yet another example of how bizarre and dumbed-down our country has become.
6
Had the Second survived the events of October 13, 1812, the US would extend from the North Pole to the Rio Grande and from the end of the Aleutian chain to Newfoundland. At the site of the Second's failure there is a Nelson-like statue to the man who brought it down. How can any American forget such infamy?
When I see one of the pictures in this article, all I can think of is next November, when Trump is defeated but claims that the elections were rigged and refuses to leave the White House.
And then what comes next...
4
I’m with you. The only way Trump is leaving the WH is by being dragged out kicking and screaming like a 2 yo child throwing a temper tantrum
2
it's also sad that counter protesting was blocked due to fear of escalation and potential violence. why? Because people who must carry guns to a protest rally is just plain threatening...and yes, threats of violence were made. So we have to tip toe around these volatile weapon holders. This is the definition of an abusive relationship.
2
I wonder if there are any Trump supports in that crowd?
I am genuinely fearful with what will happen when Trump is defeated in November (or sooner) and what he will tell his supporters. Is he crazy enough to incite violence?
Once again people think their gun rights are being taken away due to a few common sense law's. Obviously none have ever had they're own kids mowed down at school, a movie theater, concert. church, mall, workplace, or any public arena. Why can't some of these people help with making some common sense rules? Keep the NRA, and troublemakers
Trump and Fox News out of it. We all are Americans and just want to keep our families safe and be able to protect ourselves. It's not rocket science. We need to get our stuff together people.
2
The most chilling quote of the day, via WaPost.
`The sea of weaponry, he said, made him feel less alone.'
So many troubled people. So many guns.
No wonder the nation is covered in blood.
5
MLK day was chosen specifically for the symbolic but not quite subliminal message...
We may yet need to carve out a separate country that runs from the lower edge of WVA at the north, with rural swatches of KY, VA, TN, NC, with a western border incorporating a potion of southern MO, then widening as it moved south to take portions of SC and GA, flowing to the southern “heart” of Dixie to cover a patch of LA, all of MS & AL and a portion of the FL panhandle—thus giving these folks their own sovereignty. Hoping we can salvage Pennsyltucky and the southern portions of IN and OH. They can call it the Confederacy and act as if they won the Civil War—and the two nations will split the cost of building the DJT Wall—to keep them away from the rest of us, who will refer to their nation as “White Supremistan.”
A bleak scenario, but it may be the only way to resolve this lingering cauldron of hate.
But we better make sure they don’t have any nuclear weapons...
3
A commenter writes, "I don't understand why a gun is not required to be at least far enough away from people that bullets won't reach them. A gun that ranges 200 yards, should be kept at least 200 yards away from human beings that are not part of the hunting group/gun range participants. My life and liberty outweighs your right to have a gun within killing distance of me."
Is there any valid reason one could not substitute "car" for "gun" in that comment? I, for one, am much more worried about bad, drunk, drugged, and gadgeting drivers than I am about people with guns. And the statistics entirely support my comparative concern.
1
“I don’t like what they are doing to our rights,”
Why couldn’t they protest without the show of guns? It’s sad and unfortunate these gun toting supporters are not as passionate about more important things like the environment, division in our country, etc. instead of weapons that are used to kill innocent human beings especially in this country. They’re content so long as they keep their guns.
1
"We did not hesitate to call our movement an army. But it was a special army, with no supplies but its sincerity, no uniform but its determination, no arsenal except its faith, no currency but its conscience."
Dr Martin Luther King
6
Taking away the citizens guns is the first step to tyranny in the govt. And a police state.
4
On first glance I assumed the photograph on the front page shows a street corner in Kabul. Then I saw the headline.
1
Granted, no one died at this rally today.
AND?
At the very least, to protest and hold a rally of this nature on the Martin Luther King, Jr. federal holiday shows great insensitivity, poor taste and even poorer judgement.
I come from a long family history of family members who served this great country in the Civil War, WWII, Korea and Vietnam. I am ashamed and outraged by this rally occurring on January 20th. Disgraceful and despicable are just two of the feelings I can write in this public forum.
7
When someone brings a .50 caliber sniper riffle to a political protest, that's a pretty good sign that we need sensible gun laws in this country -- not to mention better public education and mental health care.
1873
@Joe
Best comment I've seen today.
76
@Joe, the Army's standard sniper rifle weighs more than 32 pounds. Anyone able to carry such a weight around for a day probably frightens you for entirely dfifferent reasons.
24
@Joe
I'll second the mental health care idea!
73
I don't get it , but no one died. They gotta right to protest. They can make their points , but the people of VA will decide the case for themselves. That same Heller case included Scalia's opinion that restrictions on firearms were not unconstitutional. So we all make our arguments , and the people decide.
121
Given the history of gun violence in our country, don’t you feel it’s intimidating to have a crowd of strangers you never met, mostly men, carrying weapons and wearing combat gear? Maybe the reason they aren’t allowed to bring guns into the Capitol.
23
@Cliff Stephens, they absolutely have a right to protest peaceably. But protesting while armed is an obvious show of force-- of the potential for violence.
They can make their voices heard equally well without the guns.
32
@Miriam Webster
No, because I view my fellow citizens as equals, deserving the same rights and the same trust that I would like to enjoy myself.
As the entire rally passed without violence and the participants even cleaned up after themselves, perhaps it's time for you and your ideological fellow travelers to admit that there was nothing to fear from the protesters. A gun is a fearsome tool, but so is a car, and in the hands of the law-abiding, neither is a threat to the public.
8
I don't understand why a gun is not required to be at least far enough away from people that bullets won't reach them. A gun that ranges 200 yards, should be kept at least 200 yards away from human beings that are not part of the hunting group/gun range participants. My life and liberty outweighs your right to have a gun within killing distance of me. My right to carry a gun is outweighed by your right to pursue life and liberty without fear of death by my hand, accidental or not.
A rag-tag armed militia with hidden faces and loaded weapons marching down the streets of Richmond is outrageous and a threat to public safety. Who feels safe to walk the city streets with this gang roaming around?
31
From our side of the pond, I find the whole report scary. Held on MLK day, and also keeping away the even more frightening groups normally associated with them does not calm those fears.
22
@Will You are the people who cannot be trusted with butter knives, per the Metropolitan police.
1
Our gun laws are an incomprehensible mosaic of laws which utterly fail in their mission to deter gun violence.
We need FEDERAL GUN CONTROL which requires that all guns be issued Certificates of Title like with cars, that they be Federally registered, and that gun owners be required to maintain liability insurance with high deductibles to indemnify people harmed by their guns. Limit the number of guns that people may own to some reasonable number.
Like with cars, require prospective gun owners to demonstrate proficiency and mental competence, plus impose strict, vicarious liability upon gun owners for their direct or otherwise negligent conduct in connection with their guns. Leave a gun lying around unsecured and someone gets access to it, you're in trouble.
As far as bullets go, the eggs I buy are imprinted with a traceable code. Do that with bullets so we know who is buying them and in what quantity.
This will not eliminate all gun violence but it will cut it back and provide at least some compensation for victims. As far as I can see, none of this in any way conflicts with that pesky 2d Amendment which would, of course, stay in full force and effect.
Presently we have a patchwork of gun legislation in 50 states which is ineffectual. You can still get a gun in a state with lax firearms laws and take it anywhere you want. If states, to meet their own needs, want to impose laws that are more stringent than the Feds, like with booze and drugs, fine.
16
@MIKEinNYC Gun ownership is a right, not a privilege subject to government licensing, as with driving a car. There is no right to drive.
1
@MIKEinNYC
Dear MIKEinNYC,
Your proposals are not radical. They do not rescind the 2nd Amendment.
They are reasonable controls that only a misfit moron (read typical shooter) would protest.
I am not in favor of some draconian ban on guns. For good or for ill, guns are part of our culture. That is America.
But there is a limit. We don't allow "machine guns" for private use. We do not allow grenade launchers for private use...
In my view, in a rural setting a shotgun is all you need. In an urban setting I can see a convenience store owner with a hand gun.
But assault rifles...for what exactly?
4
Toting a loaded weapon to display and intimidate at a political rally is antithetical to our democracy. Unfortunately, gun safety laws probably won't help with such folks. Bullying is a matter of character not the law. These poor souls have lost their way, but are more visible because our President gives them a voice. If the GOP starts losing elections we won't see as many.
18
The answer to all this mess about guns lies somewhere in the middle, not on the opposing fringes. The sane and rational amongst us would agree that personal arsenals are not necessary and impractical for most people and that not everyone should have access to them. A long rifle, a shotgun and a side arm are normal hunting and self defense tools for those licensed to have them. Automatic and assault rifles, perhaps to those with advanced licenses and excise taxes. Regulate all assault ammunition production and sales. Americans will never be denied their right to bear arms, but I believe that there is room compromise if everyone will take just take one step forward and use their indoor voices.
8
@Kurt Pickard
Dear Kurt,
I found the demonstration in Virginia a bit disturbing. Still, I agree, for good or for ill, Americans are not going to give up their guns, nor do I think they should.
But there do need to be limits and an AR-15, seems to be at the extreme end of civilized gun use. If such weapons were rigidly controlled, I cannot see why anyone should complain.
But my 20 gauge over under, how can any reasonable person complain.
1
My view is that the argument over guns has become highly emotional and full of mistrust. People in this country have owned and used many many guns since the first Europeans set foot on the hemisphere. Living safely with so many of them has been integral to life in this country. The conflict over gun ownership began with the assassination of Kennedy. The ease with which Oswald obtained the weapon used to kill Kennedy appalled many people and the shootings and deaths of other prominent leaders over subsequent years made many feel that private gun ownership was a threat to all which was unjustified.
What was forgotten was that these events obscured the fact of how very rare they were in regards to how many guns were privately owned. Liberty is act of trust whereby unless people betray society’s presumption that people will respect others and act considerately that they shall be so trusted. The political movement to institute controls upon who owns guns and how to render those guns as least dangerous as possible totally withdraws all trust in gun ownership, no more liberty related to owning and using guns. To be trusted with guns is presumed to be illogical.
So we have fanatics who see gun control as designed to end liberty and to institute a totalitarian dictatorship and fanatics who see gun ownership to be proof of homicidal tendencies.
The only result is a lack of means to remove guns from truly disturbed individuals who present a clear and present danger to others.
2
I have no issue with the right of responsible individuals to own guns. I would want them to demonstrate not just their ability to safely use a gun but to prove they have a secure place to store them. This is what other countries require.
However,I do have an issue that this right must be protected by the constitution. I am sure they all cheered when someone said "right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed." But they conveniently forgotten the part about "a well regulated militia". The founders could not have imagined a military with the level of technical sophistication and skill of our modern military. Not even the best armed citizenry would be a match.
We have other tools to hold our elected officials accountable -- the most powerful of which is our right to vote. And vote we must.
But we are in a crisis against which guns have no power.The impeachment proceedings, the deep corruption of the Trump Administration including the Attorney General of the United States, the reprehensible behavior of Mitch McConnell and his Republican henchmen are overwhelming my faith in our system of governance. We are faced with now a divide that has put in question the power of our constitution. And all the guns that all the gun owners are screaming is their protection against such corruption are impotent.
5
Nobody questions the right to bear arms. You can go hunting and do normal gun activities, but, why should gun owners own assault weapons? If someone wants that go join the military and stay in it. These days too many people, especially children are hurt by guns in this country. Its not all mental issues. It is this attitude that gun owners need unquestioned and un-monitored access to all kinds of guns. A sensible gun control plan is needed in every civilized society, including the US.
7
Assault weapons were banned at one point and America survived just fine.
Another cynical move from GWBush....allowing assault weapons ban to expire.
4
@Sudha Nair Handguns are used for the vast majority of firearm fatalities per the FBI. Modern sporting rifles account for a few hundred deaths annually.
@JDK and your point?
As I understand it, the proposed “gun control” laws in Virginia would (1) restrict hand gun purchases to one per month; (2) require background checks before purchasing guns; and (3) local governments would be able to prohibit guns in parks, certain events and government buildings. I own one hand gun and have friends who collect and own lots of guns, old, new and in between; hand guns, rifles and semi automatic guns like the ones used in recent mass shootings. We all are responsible gun owners and honor the Second Amendment. Yet, we are not freaking out about these proposed laws.
All of us are middle class and above and have the money to buy several guns and all question why anybody would object to being able to buy only one hand gun per month. None of us has anything to hide and thus are not afraid of any background checks. Finally, while all of us have permits to carry guns none of us feels compelled to do so when going grocery shopping or taking the kids to a park.
So, what are the protesters so afraid of? The people protesting fail to understand that one has to submit to a background check to secure, among others, a law or medical license, and to obtain a TSA or Global Entry permit. We get background checks when applying to rent an apartment, even when applying for a job. Yet, it must be out of bounds to conduct a background check when a person is about to buy a killing machine? Seriously, these people need to grow up.
11
The photos of the armed activists remind me of the search-and-rescue guys we used to call "rah rahs". They would keep the rescue gear loaded in their cars at all times, just waiting for a climbing accident so they could rush up to the mountain and be heroes. Some people like the adrenalized feeling that at any time an emergency could occur so they could be "responders."
Unfortunately, the rest of us would rather live in a calmer, friendlier, happier environment, where wars and emergencies are not a lurking possibility. The more people in our country are armed (and thus, whether they intend it or not, dangerous), the further we are from living in a civilized society.
May these folks' fear subside. May they be open to to connecting with the rest of us. May we create a culture of love, not fear. May all of us have productive work to do, sufficient resources for a good life, and time to enjoy friends and family. That's how I recall my childhood. Despite the nuclear threat and the Vietnam war, we still had more civility in life. I miss that.
6
All of the big guns, all of the camouflage, all of the shouting, all of the calls for revolution cannot change one fact: the people of Virginia exercised their constitutional right in a democracy to vote and voted overwhelmingly in favor of candidates who promised common sense gun legislation to prevent guns from getting into the wrong hands and bans on military-style weapons that can kill so many in mere seconds and always have the element of surprise in their favor. The lawmakers' first stakeholders are the voters in their state, not the protesters who wish to deny the Virginia electorate the measures they voted for.
11
22000 out of the population of Virginia is 0.25%. 22000 out of the population of the East coast is less than 0.025%. The behavior of our elected officials in Washington is inconsistent with this overwhelming show of electoral power.
2
Here's the truly troubling message sent today by the Virginia Citizens Defense League, the NRA, and the associated white nationalist hate groups.
"We really hate the way the majority of Virginia voters chose to vote last November. So we are here today and we brought our guns" And they sure made it a point do display a lot of their guns.
Another confirmation of the accuracy of the quote of David Frum " If conservatives become convinced that they cannot win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. They will reject democracy. "
12
All this posturing and debating. The truth is that USA has the highest death by gun rate of any advanced country. States with lax gun laws have high death rates by gun also, suicides and homicides and accidents.
Now we are awash in guns with no way of tracking what is handed down from generation to next generation and what is stolen or sold without a trace. Again, because of lax gun laws.
This will come back to create a nightmare at some point in our ever contentious future.
4
While many of these guys revere Robert E. Lee and The Lost Cause in support of a confederation of states, they suddenly become federalists when the state wants to insure a "well regulated militia."
6
The gun rights folks got to vent and no one was hurt so that’s good. But the Supreme Court needs to clarify what the 2nd amendment means by a ‘well regulated militia’. It seems that means regulated by the State. If that is the case the governor could have just told them to stand down and go home and they would have willingly obeyed his orders.
3
@AG The Supreme Court clarified the Second Amendment in the Heller decision.
2
Adults who drive across the country, dressed in camo, wearing vests, carrying walkie-talkies and carrying semi-automatic weapons have simply put - no respect for their country and/or fellow Americans. This is yet another major disappointment to me as an American about the direction in which my country has turned under the current president. America is exponentially less great than it was 4 years ago.
12
The reasonableness of "reasonable gun laws" is in the eye of the beholder and virtually impossible to agree upon.
Gun Control for some means confiscation of all guns, for others it means putting ten rounds in the X ring.
Interesting that inside the secure compound where the rally was held they only allowed people who were known, and outside the rally grounds weapons were prohibited. That the organizers of the really itself don't feel safe if anyone carrying a weapon can walk in says it all.
1
Thousands of gun owners arriving armed to the teeth. No reported violence. Society has nothing to worry about allowing the vast majority of people from owning firearms.
People organize when they think their Constitutional rights are being jeopardized by legislation. If the Virginia Legislature were proposing more restrictive abortion laws, a different group of people would be out there demanding that their rights not be infringed. The difference is, the Bill of Rights directly addresses the rights of law abiding people to own firearms. On the other hand, the right to an abortion is not directly addressed, and is derived from judicial inferences of general rights to privacy.
Nobody wants to kill children. The anti-gunners think that by depriving the entire public of unfettered rights to firearms, they will save children. The anti-abortionists, thinking that fetuses are children who have just not yet had the chance to slide down the birth canal, also think they will save children.
As the late, great Rodney King once said, "Can't we all just get along?"
5
I remember a few years ago reading about 4 police officers who were having lunch at a fast-food place. They were armed and well-trained in the use of their weapons. Yet a man with a gun was able to walk into that restaurant and kill all four of them. And a toddler a couple of years ago reached into his mother's purse, pulled out her gun and killed her. I'll never understand why anyone thinks that owning or carrying a gun makes them safer. Do they honestly think that they could stand against the government which has all sorts of weapons at their disposal? Do they think they could be a Rambo and outshoot someone...those well-trained cops couldn't. Was that mother safer because she had a gun? Sensible gun control laws just might save your life and carrying a gun just might cost you your life.
12
The irony of the sign stating "Liberty over tyranny". These demonstrators are the tyrants. They infringe upon my liberty. Our country needs to be protected from them! I have more confidence in elected officials, democracy and accountable public servants than misguided, self-appointed enforcers like the gun rights crowd.
14
@Steve
Dear Steve,
While I agree the demonstration was a bit disconcerting, I cannot agree that I have any confidence in our elected officials. Exhibit 1 - Donald Trump.
2
The American origin myth of "sanctified" violence, with fantasies of racial/ethnic/cultural superiority asserted by intimidation and the threat of lethal violence, continues to hold this country in thrall. And so, I'll continue to support--vote for and work actively for--common-sense gun control measures. I will also link arms and arguments with those who are raising serious questions about the fundamental cogency and applicability of the Second Amendment and its MIS-interpretations over the past two decades.
3
Of the 22,000 protesters, how many are from neighboring states? Last I checked, Virginia recently decided that Democrats--not Republicans--would control both statehouses in the Commonwealth. Given that fact, it's striking that folks from around the region come to protest against what a majority of Virginia's own citizens think is best for the state: common sense gun laws.
10
Several terrorists attacked the USA and we went to war and spent trillions. We redid security checks to stop weapons getting on planes that costs billions and billions of dollars. Over 40,000 men women and children die from guns, most of which are legal. The cost of repairing the damage is well over 250 billion a year. Are gun owners willing to pay for this damage? I think that is some $600 per legal gun out there for just the damage done by legal guns. How many people whose parent or son or daughter used a gun, bought for keeping the family safe, to kill themselves. There must be tremendous despair in these tens of thousands of families. Sorry gun rights activists, the material and human cost tremendously outweighs your argument and your rights. Where are the rights of the rest of us?
7
These demonstrators ignore the fact that the US is the gun homicide epicentre, of the developed world.....by a considerable margin. There are no other developed nations that have regular, tragic school shootings.
If Sandy Hook couldn’t lead to moderate gun reform, then the US will remain awash with guns and tens of thousands of Americans will continue to be killed by guns each year.
6
All the pro-gun people interviewed in this article were not from Virginia.
The gun control advocates were from Virginia.
Virginia voted for changes their state’s gun laws. Out of staters can return to their gun toting states and stay out of the commonwealth of Virginia’s electorates desire to change their laws.
Trump, the tweet agitator in chief, tried to stoke controversy and gain votes by using the 2nd amendment in vain by criticizing Virginia for wanting to make gun ownership safer.
Trump is so disconnected from reality that he ignored that he has proposed some of the changes Virginia will enact.
He obviously has no shame.
6
Well as a retired Marine I’d like to ask:
How many of these guys dressed in camo, wearing Kevlar helmets, sporting flak jackets, strutting around with their assault rifles with all the unnecessary cool fittings (and the three-point slings) they can buy at the gun show (I know, my brother was a gun dealer and I used to sit with him at gun shows and I swear there was enough material for a doctorate in antisocial behavior) radios, medical kits, etc. ever wore a uniform? Because based on what they’re wearing and how they’re wearing it, my guess is a minority.
12
I read that gun rights advocates fear that any restrictions on ownership will snowball into confiscation of their guns. It won't but if this is their position, then I ask one thing - if you want guns with no restrictions, then will you assume full responsibility? That means secure storage of all firearms and appropriate training and safe use and probably more.
Will gun rights activists accept full responsibility if their gun harms someone, anyone? If a child finds your gun - you are responsible for the result. Same if an angry or depressed adult harms another or him/her self. Same if your gun is stolen and used for any harm (injury, robbery, intimidation, any harm). If you know someone with access to a gun, be it relative, friend, co-worker, neighbor, anyone, and you have prevented the police and courts from intervening, will you take responsibility?
Responsible gun owners - please make it your responsibility to teach other gun enthusiasts.
5
This is democracy. Let everyone demonstrate and present their positions, peacefully. Then vote. Like they did in Virginia, already.
2
22 000 people is a sadly low turnout when organizers expected 120 000. $70 000 raised for an event that had a lot of national coverage is pathetic. It’s just a small minority of gun obsessed people trying to control the common sense majority.
4
I am not against responsible gun ownership. Under no circumstances should civilians be able to purchase military weapons. What is wrong with these men? What are they protecting themselves from in full camouflage, face masks, helmets, night googles? This is beyond ridiculous; if their worst nightmare came true- that the government would come to take away their land- do they really think their little personal arsenals would hold off the army. What is the point of all of this lunacy ?
4
I joined the MLK march through downtown Yakima today, a time to remember that The Dream lives on still as a dream. The way the organizers of these gun rallies work, they actually cause division. I find it disgusting that this group would co-opt this day of service and day of remembrance.
6
I can barely contain my fury at these protesters. There are so many things you can do to be a good citizen in our country. You can be a foster parent, volunteer at a hospital, attend a protest that protects American’s right to vote, teach a child to read or an immigrant English. But these utterly selfish and self serving individuals find that protesting modest proposals to regulate gun ownership that may make our country safer is the cause they choose. I despise them and their fake fealty to the constitution when all they care about is the 2nd amendment and their favorite toys. I doubt most could pass a high school civics test. Grown men in camouflage and carrying big guns to show and powerful they are. Enough of them. They are despicable.
10
How many of the pro-gun marchers in Richmond today mentioned or acknowledged the 1.2 to 2 MILLION people who turned out for the March For Our Lives protest in March of 2018? How many of today's pro-gun marches would you have to hold to equal those numbers? How many friends would each of these guys have to bring to match those totals?
3
I thought I was looking at photos of Chechnya or Libya or Syria, or Iraq.
Ballistic vests, civilian M-16's, fake militia groups. Militia groups formed so that they can march around and pretend they are protecting a fake America.
Unfortunately, this is the real America. A failing Government, a failing system. Not due solely to Trump but supported by him. We will never get guns out of the U.S. and we will not excise racism. The U.S. is destined to fail as a Democracy, faster if Trump is reelected and we do not remove firearms from our society.
4
A picture is worth a thousand words.
A bunch of dudes who get turned on by the thrill of carrying lethal weapons, dressing up in costumes and showing the world their pathetic fantasies of playing the hero in a shoot-out. Who think their gun would allow them to withstand the "tyranny" of governments that have nuclear weapons. But in reality are most likely to just use it to commit suicide. Enabled by an industry that makes lots of money peddling fantasies of lethal power to aging men. Absolute absurdity.
And a mall group of young women who merely want to not be threatened with the possibility of being shot by a deranged man with a power fantasy.
Who sponsored this rally? My guess would be a bunch of OTC supplements for impotence. These guys should stick to video games and movies to fulfill their pitiful power fantasies, and it's unbelievable we indulge them at the expense of endangering the life and limb of the rest of us.
P.S. My active-duty, special operations family member, who has hundreds of hours of professional training and drills on actually using these arms in combat with other human beings (and has done so), finds the idea of any random citizen being allowed to bear such lethal weapons absolutely appalling.
10
@ Kentucky Female Doc: The idea that people will rise up and overthrow the government—a government that has M1 tanks, F15s and nuclear weapons—is naive. Aren’t you angry paying taxes and not having adequate police protection where you live—no matter how rural. Why don’t people protest about that? You’re right—I have never even held a gun in my 56 years on the planet. But another thing I have also not experienced is the feeling that I shot and killed someone—even if that person made a mistake and was rummaging through my garage or trying to break into my house. As other readers suggest, this is really about what type of society we want to have moving forward. I for one do not want live in the Wild West!
8
Bravo to the law enforcement and governor of the Great State of Virginia! We are so proud of you for protecting both the 2nd Amendment and American citizens from bad gun laws. Virginia is a class act!
3
A gun rally held on MLK day.
That decision is as unbelievable as it is brazen and arrogant.
And yet folks are to believe that neither prejudice nor hate was involved when determining THIS DAY, of all days, was an appropriate choice.
5
@Marge Keller It is Lobby Day in Virginia, traditionally a day when citizens go to Richmond to express themselves on all sorts of legislation. It happened to be guns this time but the tradition of lobbying the legislature on the MLK holiday is long-standing.
You have to register cars, why not guns? Both are lethal and both require training and practice to use safely.
3
Trump said that the 2nd amendment is under "serious attack".
What is really really being attacked? The people in our churches, our schools, our theaters, our stores, our concerts, our places of entertainment, our places of work, where we travel, and where we live. That is what is being attacked. Literally attacked with the dead of our country paying the ultimate price.
I don't believe Trump knows what a serious attack is even though he's said he could shoot someone on 5th Avenue.
8
@ Marie
I found the President’s comments rich considering his impeachment for not following and defending our Constitution. He seems to have some sort of sense for what the Second Amendment is, but I’d be surprised if he knew any of the others, let alone any of the Articles of the Constitution.
His protest would mean more if he was consistently fighting for the grand idea of America rather than his own perverted idea, which is not based upon our laws.
3
Some children never get over their need for a buckie. Also known as a security blanket. The rest of us adults have moved on. And we will continue to do so.
The only "tyranny" going on here is the very real and very dangerous threat these gun-toting lunatics present to the rest of us who simply want to go about our day without being shot to death, en masse, with a military grade assault weapon.
"Don't touch me, because I'm just crazy enough to use this!", does not instill fear of reprisal, as much as it instills a desire for the paranoid and mentally ill to be disarmed.
Yes, guns are used to fight wars, but it is the survival mechanism that wins them.
And I have little doubt that the survival mechanism of the vast majority of the people in this country, the ones who want sensible gun-control laws, etc, will eventually prevail over the wholly contrived pseudo-survival mechanism of a small minority of tin soldiers who want to play "militia-men" in public.
In time, the NRA spigot will dry up. The political pendulum will swing. New laws will be passed. And the vast majority of us will breathe a sigh of relief, knowing that our chances of being senselessly shot to death at any given moment has just significantly decreased.
To that breath! And to that day!
(I just hope I live long enough to see it)
5
Regrettably these folks have always been here... the current administration has given them a shield. Hopefully not much longer.
3
I look at these pictures and wonder: Just what world do these people think they live in? Why do they mostly seem so angry? How many of these people "protest" out of ideology and how many just because they're trying to fit in or be "cool"? What contribution to society do they think they're making by carrying weapons openly? Isn't that sheer provocation?
4
Armed protestors? Anytime I see citizens with more firepower than my Marines and I had in the Middle East (and better body armor?), I just have to wonder who thinks that's a good idea and why.
That's not protest, that's intimidation.
5
I've never quite understood how a stranger carrying a gun can make anyone feel safer.
6
I am a Virginia taxpayer and voter. The majority of us wanted Democrats in control in our state and tougher gun control to go with it.
How dare these cowards presume to defy our voice.
I am sick of the pro-2A crowd presuming they get to decide when the government has gotten out of control. If they're upset they should convince voters of their view instead of waving guns around.
8
These gun rights advocates say we should be armed in case we are unhappy with our government, we would be able to overthrow it.
In a time when foreign influences are at its highest through social media, this argument falls apart. All Russia, China, Iran has to do is Flood social media with anti government ideas and these clowns, with theirHigh capacity weapons will try to overthrow the government.
Do we really want these people deciding who should govern us?
3
Why can’t we enforce the laws prohibiting criminal behavior that we have on the books now, rather than criminalizing law abiding citizens lawfully abiding by the constitution?
2
A sad day in America. No counter-protest, and who would dare with thousands of far-right ideologues armed to the teeth. I fear it’s just the beginning.
2
Why the masks? It wasn't that cold there today.
2
Background checks weed out felons. A significant number of American men have felonies. Many want guns. Gun manufacturers dont want to miss out on this felon market.
Thus, no closing loopholes or universal background checks.
3
I don't understand what these heavily armed men are so afraid of. And do they think they look tough? They look scared and pathetic and like they're a danger to society. They look like the last people you could trust to be responsible gun owners.
4
Why protest if the Constitution "guarantees" your right to guns? Why use encryption to avoid the surveillance state when the Constitution guarantees your right to privacy? (How can we even know which encryption program has not been surreptitiously hacked by government?) Why support groups opposing censorship when the Constitution prohibits it?
Obviously, it doesn't "guarantee" anything, as Japanese Americans learned incarcerated in concentration camps. The Constitutional right to life did not protect the millions of innocent people who were killed by the American Government. The Constitution does not prevent thousands of innocent people from being caged.
When the slave owning founders promised a Bill of Rights to prevent their new government from doing bad, they deceived themselves.
If you trust the rulers for ever and ever, just look at the case of Wikileaks publisher Julian Assange.
There is nothing that the Russians-who dominated WSJ comments - like more than a gun rally dominated by folks who dislike Democrats.
That gives amble opportunity for the Russians to slag Democrats, engaged in incendiary rhetoric against the Federal Government, and make calls for armed secession.
It is entirely - and very sadly -predictable
I live in Central Washington in what would be considered a Libertarian leaning county where just about every truck you see has an NRA sticker affixed to the back. I go on daily runs along the Columbia River and cannot go a day without being startled by the sound of gunfire. People here shoot AR15s off in their yards, as well as off the sides of the road into canyon walls. I feel like I live in a war zone. This is not normal. When did the right to bear arms become the right to shoot their guns anywhere they want? When did this right to bear arms become the right to walk into a McDonalds (as another commenter mentioned) with a pistol strapped to your back, freaking out customers who are all triggered now by this "right" as we live in fear of being shot in a mass shootings?? People who are just trying to live thier lives and have lunch. Where are our rights under the Constitution?
I lived in Japan for 4 years and miss it every single day. A civilized country without guns This country is sick and I am very seriously considering my exit strategy, once and for all.
7
"Gun rights" is a term that symbolises the decadence of American society that has managed to dissociate and compartmentalise every aspect of life so that it seems disconnected from the HORROR it can produce. An empire doomed to fall.
1
Have any of these people ever traveled to free countries where people are unafraid of being shot and where police are chosen on the basis of intelligence, education and politeness and are also unafraid of being shot?
5
My guess is no.
2
Im Australian. Is that why I dont understand why people find it necessary to arm themselves to the teeth in public? To me they look like the army in civilian clothes. What do they get out of brandishing guns at people? Is it some kind of power buzz?Does it make them feel superior? It all looks extremely childish to me. Why the insecurity?Is the world going to end if their guns are taken away?
2
Imagine if all of those who attended had, instead, spent the day helping the elderly, the impoverished, the disabled.
4
Fat chance that would happen. It’s about them after all!
This country I’m afraid is gradually spiraling out of control...
3
Who's actually afraid here? The men and women wearing helmets and Kevlar vests carrying multiple weapons designed for killing people—or the "liberals" wearing street clothes choosing to use the weapons of their voices, their votes and their presence to affect change? On this MLK day, I choose to reach for the hand of a stranger in friendship, instead of reaching for a deadly weapon.
5
Were these people responding to a Trump dog whistle? That has to be worrying, doesn't it?
@ Kentucky Female Doc. I’m guessing you don’t work in the emergency department. And, while you doubt liberal NYT readers experience growing up around and using guns, you fail to ask whether any of us have had one pointed at us. I have. It is scary. Not sure how the mentally ill person behind the gun got ahold of it, but he shouldn’t have been able to. More gun control is a good thing. Oh, and amendments are not written in order of importance.
3
22,000 oppose new Virginia laws, 5,000 of them are Virginians. How do they feel about state's rights?
I've owned guns for over 70 years, and have lost track of how many deer and pigs I've killed, so I'm not anti-gun or scared of guns. But, I also accept the traditional interpretation of the 2nd Amendment, just as I accept that human activity causes global warming. I'll be that most of the people at the rally are really motivated by fear of "white replacement." Pretty pathetic.
4
What I find more alarming than this rally occurring on MLK day, is the thousands of advocates who attended. It is no accident that this rally occurred today.
2
The Photographs I looked at of these gun-rights protestors sums up the saying " a picture is worth a hundred words." Male, white, angry, hostile, codified. And this was scheduled on our somber Martin Luther King holiday. No coincidence. No code needed.
3
Martin Luther Kings day...and these folks have a Gun rally. Everyone knows this was not a coincidence.
I call it a Gun Rally...not a Second Amendment Rally. A Second Amendment Rally would have the same signs, the same speakers...but it would not need guys in full camo, bullet-proof vests, Face masks, two and three rifles and semi-automatics slung across their shoulders and their belt laden with at least with at least two handguns and maybe a shoulder carry holster under one arm... A number of them looked like guys looking to be cast as narrow-eyed mercs in the next Hollywood Action thriller--not responsible gun-owning citizens.
A Number of them walked with their hands on the grip and the fingers lingering near the triggers.
Imagine if a large group of Black gun owners showed up in these folks small towns hold a rally, long guns with sniper sights in full view with fingers lingering near triggers... And they would have a permit, too.
...These same Gun Rights folks would be screaming into 911 for the Sheriffs to haul out and arrest everyone.
But when THEY do it...they call it a Rally.
Maybe for many of them it was...but for too many, it seems more like some people itching for something to happen.
But then they all went home... Good.
What these guys really are protesting against is the fact that the most POWERFUL Right currently exercised by the rest of us is the one exercised in the Poll Booth on Election Day.
3
To paraphrase Bill Clinton, "it's the guns,stupid. " More guns on the streets than citizens. "In order to maintain a strong militia...". Um,we already have a "citizens militia", it is called the military. A militia staffed by citizens. And look up the definition of amendment.
1
Is being armed to the teeth a peaceable way to assemble to petition for redress of grievances? One sad state of affairs
2
It’s sad that these ultra right wingers refuse to recognize the clearly articulated supreme court decisions that states and the feds can set regulations for gun ownership and use. They are really nothing more than spoiled brats. The fact many of them are clearly arming themselves to fight our government puts them on the verge of treason. It’s about time we stop coddling these people and start making them act responsibly.
2
The story puts squarely the gun advocates with if not the extreme right, then Trumpish kind of right.
Despite the presence of Neo-Nazis, I wouldn't associate the gun advocates with them. But I don't see why banning guns in certain places (airplanes?) constitutes confiscation of weapons as some in the crowd were saying.
In a TV news show, a lady who is attending the rally speaks, "I always carry a gun. I am a single woman." I see. This is America.
I think there should be a day that the masses should take to the streets to show our concern for the negative effects that fox news has on the country.
4
So sadly apropos during Trump rule -- the right-to-bear-arms guy saying the protest was like a family gathering despite the reality of people wearing masks and brandishing automatic weapons throughout the streets of Richmond. What kind of family gatherings do you go to? A regular NYT reader, I must criticize your coverage. No explicit mention of why people fear life in the heavily armed, de facto open-fire zone that the United States has become. You fail to explain what happened in Charlottesville -- that a peace demonstrator was killed by a right-wing zealot. And not enough stress early in your story of why the Virginia legislature is considering gun restrictions. A reminder: Mass shootings within the state, including 12 dead in Virginia Beach. Please be accurate as well as thorough if you are dedicated to balance and fairness.
I want freedom FROM the threat of guns. Where are my rights?
6
We have so-called President who advocates violence in the name of gun rights. These nabobs ought to be at their jobs if they have one. They are the ones that Trump has taken away their healthcare, food stamps, and doomed them to a $7.75 an hour jobs. They are the same ones who are bussed to his cornball rallies for fast food chits. These nabobs dont vote, thank goodness. If they did the GOP wouldnt have to work so hard to disenfranchise them.
2
22,000 People on a federal holiday with people coming from out of State included is unimpressive.
Virginia Democrats have nothing to worry about.
4
Nothing says delusions of granduer better than, " I am holding something in my hand that can overthrow my government".
36
You are projecting your fear of something which you do not understand. Those people in the tactical gear in the picture are doing exactly the same.
There are hundreds of millions of guns in around a third of the households of this country. Those are normal people who have consciences and understand and accept the responsibilities of owning and using very dangerous devices. The proportion who are risks to others and themselves are no higher than anyone else.
If we are to reduce gun violence, we need to know the risks and to avoid acting out of thoughtless fear of the unknown.
@ak Yeah. It is rather funny. I am a concealed carrier, as is my wife. I'm sure we'd be a match for the might of the US military machine.
@ak And not understanding the fundamental Constitutional principle that if you have a problem with the government, you have a problem with yourself.
WE are the government. The people are the government.
And in other news:
NYTimes: Kansas City Shooting Leaves 2 Dead and at Least 15 Wounded
Kansas City Shooting Leaves 2 Dead and at Least 15 Wounded https://nyti.ms/2sDnZ0e
18
And the shooter was dealt with by an armed security guard. Those people in line had no way to defend themselves-the police were minutes away.
1
The gun laws in Virginia should mirror the success of Chicago.
6
Why don’t you check out the rates of per-capita gun violence by state? You’ll see that Illinois ranks lower than many red states. In fact almost all of the states with the most gun violence per capita are red and almost all with the least are blue. Gun violence correlates with gun ownership.
Chicago is part of America, and America is awash with guns and gun violence. Chicago is not part of some other country with radically different gun laws. Chicago is not some gun proponents clinching argument to neutralize gun control advocates.
Any Chicagoan who wants to arm themself just has to drive to the state border. Contrast with residents of London, Sydney, Paris or Tokyo. A lot harder to obtain guns and kill innocents in countries with laws enforced nationally than regionally.
2
@Edward Yeah, heard that mantra many times. Until those restrictions are nationwide, so guns can't stream in illegally from the city next door, your opinion has no merit. Sorry.
@Edward it’s a 30 minute drive tops from Chicago to the gun shops, firework shops, casinos and other joy for sale in Indiana. Great neighbors!
1
Dressed to kill. I don't get it.
12
Where is the president on MLK day?
22
At Davos. Any problem with that?
At the MLK memorial in DC with the Vice President.
1
Probably never heard of him.
The day you reach for your gun to overthrow the government is the day you get taken out from above by a drone. You won't see it coming, and your precious guns will be useless.
Let's stop pretending armed citizens are an effective check on government corruption. They aren't.
61
I think these aren’t really guns rights people!!! If they were, they’d be more reasonable after the massacres of innocent people! They’d be like people in New Zealand which also has guns rights people, but real guns rights people!!
This isn’t about guns!!! This is about politics and the culture wars and a changing country and demographics and intolerance and hate. This is about thinly veiled racism and the support it feels it has found in the White House!
This isn’t about guns!!! A reasonable person can have a gun and still try to prevent kids being killed in schools by other kids!!
Guns are their excuse, but their real issue is people who don’t look like them!!!
They are racists and guns are simply the excuse!!!
If it’s not guns tomorrow it’s another excuse!!! Guns are perfect as an excuse because they represent an issue that they won’t really allow to be solved and they also represent their power: violence, which they really need most of all against people who don’t look like them!!
If a compromise was reached on guns they would find something else! It would be taxed or the crime etc etc. they can never run out of excuses, there’s too many!!!
These are people with a different motive, but guns are the perfect foil!!!
32
Fread, I’m not sure what you are basing your comments on, but I’m guessing it’s not first-hand knowledge. I live in Virginia. Of all the people I encountered who talked about going, all but one were hunters (the one who was not a hunter lives in an isolated area with disabled parents, and keeps one gun “for varmints”). They hunt to put food in their freezers. They hunt to donate meat to feed the homeless. They hunt because many of them are also farmers who have to manage deer in order to have crops. They are responsible people who use guns safely and appropriately. They have not behaved irresponsibly nor used used their weapons illegally. Consequently, they are not happy about the prospect of being slapped with new requirements and registrations (which always end up costing something).
I don’t find that surprising. I am not a gun owner; I wouldn’t watch Fox News if you paid me; and I’m saddened by the scheduling of the rally on MLK day, but I can understand some of the frustration and anger the hunters in attendance feel. It’s not pleasant to be penalized for the transgressions of people who won’t be following the laws or paying the fees any more than they are now. It would be like making everyone in Virginia pay a traffic ticket because there are a bunch of people in the city who run red lights. For onlookers, rather than groping for the worst possible motive and stating it as if it were a fact, I would like to suggest that it’s usually wiser to reserve judgment.
My father was a chemical engineer but really wanted to be a farmer. He bought 120 acres of land in eastern Oklahoma that was just oak, hickory, elm and blackjack trees. He labored in the city during the week, but on Saturday we went to the "farm".
He also bought a single shot 12 gauge shotgun. My brother and I were jostled out of bed every Saturday morning at 5 am to go and work on the "farm". We built fence, built a barn and corral, bulldozed a big hole for a pond...
One Saturday, we were picking up the rocks that were everywhere when a copperhead snake came within an inch of striking my dad. The 12 gauge was employed. One shot was enough.
Funny, no AR-15 needed.
34
What world do you live in!
4
@Jobi I got the reference. Best "TED talk" on the internet.
The crowds...all white... and all male.
30
That’s is incorrect, there crowd wasn’t all white, there were blacks, Hispanics, Asians and even people who are gay. You should go and do some googling and see for your self that the crowd was very diverse. We, obviously are the minority, there for there were not many of us.
2
@Allie Enough of them to get Trump elected, right?
Not really. Only the photos you saw.
Their message seems to be Gun Rights for Whites.
41
It is very hard not to note that these folks have decided to hold their gun rally on the Martin Luther King holiday commemorating a revered national leader who was assassinated (with a gun). The racist overtones of this rally is extremely difficult to ignore.
68
This is the day to Celebrate Martin Luther King Jr. Why did the Virginia Capital allow this atrocity to occur on his day of remembrance?
24
A fair question is how much of this spectacle is a product of hysterical media overhype about an imagined apocalyptic death cage match between good (the left) vs. evil (gun rights). When the Nazis tried to protest in Skokie and Chicago in the late 70s they were marginalized, dismissed as malign, offensive cranks. But now equally fringe actors behind far right wing protests are heralded as dangerous, organized armies of reactionary shock troops. Giving them such exaggerated credit with banner headlines or breathless breaking news coverage is counterproductive and of dubious journalistic merit.
6
I think the incident on Charlottesville, which also occurred in Virginia, has the locals on edge about large right wind rallies. And the mayor had already called a state of emergency before the NY Times story.
1
You know what I find interesting?
In America a white man can dress in full combat gear and brandish an assault weapon while threatening terrorism upon our elected government, without repercussion, because he’s a freedom loving patriot; yet black men can’t wear hoodies on the street because that makes them look shady and threatening. Why is that, do you think?
115
@Dan Very valid point.
2
Perhaps someone should point out to Ms. Horne from Texas that Thomas Jefferson himself banned guns from the campus of UVA.
10
I am remembering the "debate" between Alex Jones and a Brit --was it Pierce Morgan? Have I got that right?
Back in 2013.
Mr. Jones comported himself like a sane man for the first few minutes. The talk then veered to statistics.
How many gun-related homicides took place over this or that year in the USA? Speaking calmly, Mr. Jones replied: eleven thousand and something. Bingo. I had already checked.
How many gun-related homicides took place in the UK?
Mr. Jones went ballistic. He screeched. He threatened. This (he screamed) was Lexington and Concord all over again. He invited Mr. Morgan (?) to become an American citizen. He challenged him to a wrestling match--himself of course wearing red, white, and blue trunks.
He finished with an incredibly lame, embarrassing imitation of a British accent. We Yanks stink at doing that. Mr. Jones certainly did.
How many gun-related homicides (over one year) in the UK?
Thirty something.
No wonder Mr. Jones ranted and raved.
He HAD to keep that single, damning little statistic--
--from coming out.
And he did.
14
To the gun-toting men who for some odd reason showed up at this rally wearing camouflage: you know that we can see you, right?
39
@pedigrees
Hilarious! It is like a Monty Python skit!
1
Welcome to the New America.
3
@Julio Wong
This is not a new America, it’s just legitimized by the commander in chief
I hope all these gun enthusiasts are serving or have served in the military so their love of guns can be put to a patriotic.
7
I'm progressive on economic issues and voted Democratic all my life. I also like shooting guns. I think many, maybe most of these anti gun control people would be voting Democratic if the party wasn't pushing gun control. The core values of the Democratic party were those of economic progress and the party represented the working class. If working class people like guns maybe Democrats should represent that.
6
@Thomas B
Get a new hobby that doesn't also have the byproduct of murder.
Sorry, I don't feel bad if they pull the ability for you to get your jollies watching bullets hit things while pretending to kill stuff and feel powerful and all that.
Not worth the trade off to my rational mind.
3
If they are so proud of their gun rights, why are they hiding their faces?
38
@Bill Wilkerson for the same reason the police were wearing masks.... for the same reason AntiFa wears masks....
@Bill Wilkerson
Good question!
So these people staged a rally on gun rights on a holiday that celebrates a man who was assasinated by a gun?
45
@Kat and the state of Virginia okayed it.
Why don’t these guys join the military if they like the weapons and clothing. In the military, the guys you shoot at have guns too, and they shoot back, bonus !
26
No. These people are far more comfortable shooting at unarmed Americans, which we saw in the Pittsburgh, Charleston, Poway and Texas temple and church massacres, the Las Vegas concert massacre, etc.
1
This rally happening this morning after the mass shooting in Kansas City last night is very fitting, I guess.
10
So, the NRA is paying for all the Security/Police overtime, etc....
Right ???
9
Only in America can you have a pro-gun rally on Martin Luther King Day.
18
More of Trump's very fine people.
18
Anti-government militias?
4
A rally filled with white men demanding their right to carry weapons that destroy lives don't represent me or most of the country. The photo of the men carrying military grade assault weapons in camo look like they want to be in the military. It is a disturbing image. Assault weapons have no place in our society.
22
Assault weapons should not be available to anyone except military and police.
3
@ana
They look like middle aged men who did not serve.
1
Even the guns are like, whoa. Let's talk about this.
3
Why does having a gun have to be the defining identity of an American!!!!? Can’t we be a peaceful country? This just is not right. In any way. I do NOT CARE about the second amendment that has been so manipulated from original meaning. It means nothing now except for the radicals. STOP!
8
I guess the anti gun control leaders don't know who Charles Whitman and Lee Harvey Oswald were when they stated that many of their members were ex-military so that kept things in order. Haa! Ignorance is bliss I guess.
4
Some of the best mass shooters were ex military.
This is his army.
This is his base that believes in every single falsehood he tells them. He is their protector from Lib/Dems/Deep State out to get them and their guns. And at the same breath, he threatens all of us he will unleash his army if we dare challenge him.
How many times he mentioned civil war if he is forced out of office, regardless of any election outcome.
Fear is his biggest weapon.
And he plays both sides ( them vs us) with perfection.
14
Today is a day to remember a great man killed by an assassin’s bullet. Is this the day to chant about your need to own a killing machine?
14
The NRA actually means Not Respect for Americans.
9
Even with all our fires I'm glad I live in Australia.
12
Wouldn't a more powerful voice have been to come to Richmond without guns and lobby for their position. Instead, they rely on intimidation to make their point, and in doing so display the type of tyranny they say they oppose. The gun rights folks argue it is not about hate but then line up with the very organizations whose existence is based on it. When you align with Nazi groups on the gun issue, it is impossible to differentiate you from them.
13
I truly believe that these people who worship guns are sick, really sick.
20
I will never understand this fascination and entitlement by mostly white middle-aged men to own (and flaunt) military grade weaponry. Really, it's not a good look. They look pathetic, like they are trying to compensate for something.
18
Why does the Times (and other media) ignore the fact that these are MEN?
It is the key to this issue.
10
Question what kind of jobs do these people have that they can just take off to go to a gun rally? “Hey boss I need off on Monday so I can dress up in my camouflage gear and carry an ar-15 around at a gun rally”. Really?
10
I’d bet a fair percentage are drawing tax-free VA disability checks, and using free DV license plates on their vehicles. The ones with the ‘Don’t tread on me’ stickers.
@Martha I guess today was not a holiday in Kansas?
Why hide your face if you believe in what your doing?
Just asking.
12
@paplo are you asking this of the police that were there... are you asking this of AntiFa rallies? Or is it just when law abiding citizens are gathering to assert their constitutional rights?
That’s it? 22,000 out of Virginia's population of 8.5 million. And that number includes wingers from other states, too. On a National holiday?
SMH.
12
Can you imagine what would happen if several thousand armed black men descended on state grounds to protest something? Meanwhile these guys are afraid of their rights being taken away.
16
@Naomi
Exactly!
As Shaun King put it earlier today, what would happen if any of these people were any race other than white? And what if they were seen “open carrying” in full military garb on any day that wasn’t a protest?
19
Allowing former slaves to keep and to bear arms after the Civil War was one of the reasons which the second amendment was not amended.
The first four words of the 2nd Amendment,
“A well regulated militia....”
“Regulated” early 15c., "adjust by rule, control," from Late Latin regulatus, past participle of regulare "to control by rule, direct," from Latin regula "rule, straight piece of wood," from PIE root *reg- "move in a straight line," with derivatives meaning "to direct in a straight line," thus "to lead, rule." Meaning "to govern
For those who believe that the 2nd amendment is beyond any sort of regulation whatsoever you might want to check the definition of “regulated” in a dictionary.
27
The second amendment was related to having a population of citizens able to stand up to militaries with military guns, who were not subject to regulations by the national government. When the fourteenth amendment applied the bill of rights to the states., the fear of violence against former slaves and protecting their rights to self defense allowed the similar protections to apply to the right to bear arms.
However, given the dangers of armed people in highly dense populations, cities began to regulate the carrying of weapons which was perfectly okay with the Supreme Court.
The well regulated militias were just that. While all males from youths to old men were eligible, they were part of a formal arrangement for self defense determined by society, not a license for individuals to go to war with the rest of society.
6
You might want to check a dictionary from the era of the ratification.
Regulated meant functional, in good working order.
If the people’s right to keep and bear arms was denied, they wouldn’t be competent when called to militia duty.
Language changes.
If you wanted to know what one of the founders meant by “those men are gay”, it would be equally inappropriate to consult modern language.
@Stephen
It's the militia that needs to be "well regulated". The right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
Virginia is for Lovers, right?
9
What does it say about race relations in America when "gun rights" advocates hold a rally on the day designated as a memorial to Martin Luther King who was murdered by a gun carrying bigot.
27
@RLW
I can only imagine how these "patriots" would react if ,say, the Black Panthers showed up bearing assault rifles and wearing body armor.
12
Right: the vast majority of people at the gun rally were white.
Guns are so old hat...
3
I wonder if these were non whites protesting for their second amendment rights how much tolerance they’d enjoy.
25
@MG
I know they would enjoy a great deal of tolerance from the readers of this site.
You know how you get state gun laws?
Follow the example of California.
They weren't interested until the Black Panthers showed up at the State Capitol. Fully armed. Legally.
Suddenly there was an interest in gun control.
28
@Steve Fankuchen
When Ronald Reagan was their governor.
Gun ownership are expressions of white privilege, toxic masculinity, fantasy/delusion and white supremacy. Thankfully the gun culture is slowly dying along with religion, but not nearly fast enough.
Why should the 78% of Americans who don't own guns be bullied by the minority who do own guns, especially the ones who demand to walk around in public carrying guns and looking for trouble with vigilante justice in their minds?
45
I would respect them more if they were bearing muskets and homemade bullets like their forefathers, who originally wrote the law.
Are the majority being bullied? I think that the minority who own guns are being demonized and characterized as demented by a minority who simply mistrust strangers.
The "military-style gear" in the photo looks like it's brand-new and never been worn. Sort of feel a little embarrassed for these guys.
23
The Second Amendment is “One of the greatest pieces of fraud, I repeat the word fraud, on the American public by special-interest groups that I have ever seen in my lifetime.”
Chief Justice Warren Burger (appointed by Eisenhower) on the National Rifle Association's agenda, PBS NewsHour, 1991
26
How sick is this part of our country?
13
A white nationalist gun rally on MLK day is by definition not peaceful. The protest was designed to intimidate people. It was a warning. I am sure many locals stayed inside especially people of color. That’s not peaceful by any definition.
40
The "guns and God" words always gets me.
You'd think that their belief in their chosen deity would protect them.
So it looks like religion is partly to blame for the guns fetish.
I'm not surprised, since 2000 years of christianity gave us Donald Trump.
16
@Stephen . I would add that religion is not what it pretends to be.
1
@Stephen Forty years of the far right and extreme fundamentalism along with the demonizing of big government and Fox news gave us Trump.
@Cate R The fundamentalism you mention is the christian kind.
The far right types also are christian.
It's time to reevaluate this religion.
It's clearly not the answer it pretends to be.
1
In a democracy there has always been the danger of the 'tyranny of the majority'. For more than one hundred years after the Civil War and the freeing of the slaves, blacks were legally excluded from the benefits provided 'all' citizens in the constitution. It was understood blacks counted less( or not at all) than their white counterparts. By the hardest that has changed somewhat.
Today what we are experiencing is a 'tyranny of the minority' caused by a failure to correct the undemocratic injustice enshrined in our constitution to benefit that Minority who enjoyed the benefits of slavery. Those lofty words "all men are created equal and endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, among these the right to life, liberty. and the pursuit of Happiness" did not include,was never intended to include slaves,women, indentured servants, and many others. The man who wrote this seemingly unambiguous tripe owned over six hundred slaves, some his own children by slaves. What he meant, and his peers understood completely , was all men of property and of a certain class and station. The last two hundred years have been spent trying to make Thomas Jefferson a better man, redefining the meaning of those words The election of our current President, the Supreme Court's ridiculous, murderous interpretation of the Founder's intention with the Second amendment is a real set back.
13
Americans need to be honest with each other about the "Fine People" who attended this second amendment pro gun rally in Virginia. These "Proud Boys" are the rightful heirs of the Confederacy. This whole rally is just code for the White supremest agenda that Donald Trump MAGA and the GOP stand for.
39
Take a good look folks, these are the people who will turn their weapons on their neighbors, the police and the military if you dare to ask them to make allowances for purchasing a deadly weapon. The fact that more people have assembled outside the protest zone than inside, because of the arms restrictions, speaks volumes. They do not feel comfortable unless they can weaponize their every interaction. I'm surprised those treating their guns like security blankets aren't pictured sucking their thumbs.
31
Interesting to read the comments....
There wasn't any violence or tragic deaths so the only thing left is to snark and make fun of white guys wearing camo who were expressing their opinions by waving banners and legally displaying firearms.
Both this rally and the Women's march reminded me of Geraldo Rivera opening Al Capone's Safe on live TV - lots of hype to get a viewing audience and then.....nothing.
5
@B Dawson
I don't remember a lot of women with their faces covered carrying firearms.
Perhaps, they weren't so ashamed of the reason for their "right to peaceably assemble" than these gun-toting masked men?
2
@B Dawson There has already been plenty of violence my friend. Plenty. And these guys aren't helping to stop it.
2
22,000? That's half the number of people killed each year by guns.
11
If you need an AK-47 , deer hunting might not be your sport.
19
@kel
Great comment!
Not only can they not shoot straight with one shot to kill a deer, they can't think straight.
1
“The internet stuff I read made it sound like tanks were rolling in the streets and neo-Nazis were marching and antifa has descended,” he said. “But none of that stuff happened. It was like a family gathering.”
These algorithms influencing social media, newsfeeds and gaming platforms are hugely problematic. This person, who sidestepped his families concerns for his and his children’s physical safety (based on the information they read in their newsfeeds), fueled himself on Red Bull in order to drive for 24 hours straight, across states, to attend. I would like to point out that there is a very real difference between “participating” and “actively rallying” due to a perceived threat.
3
The beauty about the USA . Woman Marched yesterday for their rights and today people march for their gun rights !!
Cant pick and choose who gets to express and march for their rights . It is all America and we can express our right and feelings
11
“It’s like a family gathering.” Where to begin with such an insane sentiment?
I for one am extremely glad that at certain gatherings of my family no one has been armed.
15
What are those people protecting? Nothing. the right to bear arms is nothing. Nowadays the US military and police fill that job. Those supposedly minute men don't know anything about history and constitutional law.
Those "don't thread on me" flag bearers are too weak to protect America against Russia. A Russia they now love.... They would be wiped out in seconds.
Let the professionals do their job and protect your family the only you can: leave the guns out of your hands.
10
@exo how long will it take for the police to arrive at your house if you call 911?
@Shocked
A minute. Why?
Do you really think guns protect people?
Every statistic proves the opposite. But it is meaningless to discuss about it. Every information brought to the attention of the minority of pro gun people is just denied without any effort to connect the dots.
Europe is safe because of strong gun laws. You might thing gun laws means the full banning of guns. But no. Just look at Switzerland. They are very permissive about guns but still, they have strong regulations.
But there is no point discussing this. Your question is just the proof of it.
Do you know how ridicule those people are comparing 2020 to the 1760's?? The second amendment spirit would be to protect America from those people who keep AR15 in their homes...
So I repeat it.
The right to bear arms is nothing. It's nothing but a whim encouraged by a freewheeling lobby. And it kills tens of thousand of people each year for nothing but a fantasy. Yeah, a great security policy...
Interesting that a lot of these "law abiding citizens" toting AR-15 style rifles, are in fact violating Virginia Law which prohibits magazines larger than 20 rounds
"It shall be unlawful for any person to carry a loaded (a) semi-automatic center-fire rifle or pistol...that ...is equipped at the time of the offense with a magazine that will hold more than 20 rounds of ammunition"..."or designed by the manufacturer to accommodate a silencer or equipped with a folding stock "
Virginia Law link here,
https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/18.2-287.4/
Many of these 2A supporters are carrying AR-15s, or clones with collapsible stocks/30 round magazines. But they just like to wave them around, to intimidate others.
13
And this, in a nutshell, is why the rest of the world shakes our heads sadly and waits patiently for news of the next gun massacre out of the U.S. We won't have to wait long.
Americans. You just don't get it, do you?
24
@Flossy A majority do. We are being terrorized by a minority of our population.
3
Why was this hate rally allowed to be held? If black groups had called for race war and planned to bring weapons to a “rally,” the event would have been shut down and all participants arrested and labeled terrorists. Yet these white men were allowed to bring assault weapons, wear battle gear and are now roaming around Richmond. Really?
16
@Lynn in DC I missed the hate part?
Congratulations ralliers showing the Left that armed people can peacefully gather. The Left would have liked nothing better than for their to be violence... not because they are concerned for people but because it would validate their unconstitutional gun grab agenda.
7
@Mystery Lits It's not like they were going to shoot each other, so it's no mystery that there would be no violence.
1