@Andrew Nelly
I just read two of your posts saying how wonderful Amazon is, and both of them sound like Jeff Bezos or his PR company wrote the script. I hope Bezos pays you well for this--a lot better than he pays his warehouse workers.
8
I'm not willing to overpay for shoddy goods made in some distant country by unwilling children. I'm also not willing to give my money to a company that overcharges for delivery and cheats municipalities all over our country.
Why do we insist on thinking Jeff Bezos and Amazon are doing our country a favor by cheating us and their own sellers, not to mention withholding tax revenue from cities and states that desperately need it?
Just wait until our skies are filled with their drone deliveries and they refuse to pay for all the accidents and erroneous deliveries that ensue.
Amazon isn't a benevolent company. They're a for-profit company that looks for tax loopholes and know no bounds to avarice. Stop looking for convenience and think about what all this greed is doing to our country.
19
So proud of my fellow New Yorkers who organized and protested the planned Amazon HQ in LIC. This article makes that decision look better and better.
22
Last night I'm listening to a radio segment about injuries to Amazon employees. One guy, trying to maintain the desired 'fulfillment speed,' injured, I think, his shoulder. Now, that injury is affecting his new job's performance. Does he still buy from Amazon? Yes. Why? One reason; he likes the quickness of delivery. Same with the people negatively affected by Amazon mentioned in this article. Thus, added to the phrase "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" ........ "even if it kills ya."
4
I live near a small town, with a mostly uneducated population. These people still don't get it. They do not value education in any way. It's all about "God and Guns" but I don't really see much of a religious mindset. You reap what you sow. Uneducated populations are not in demand in any way. It's not up to Amazon to support these small towns. And too bad Kentucky gave away all those tax breaks. Can't complain about it now. These manufacturing jobs are never coming back. Trump lies about that all of the time but these people don't have the brainpower to see through his lies.
25
Every time I read an article about Amazon my first reaction is I don’t like this company. They are ruining America. They don’t pay enough in taxes. They treat their employees terribly. Then I forget about it. I watch Amazon Prime shows, I go on the computer and order things on Amazon. Free shipping and they arrive within 2 days. I ask my Alexa the weather every day. You get my point. They have us over a barrel. I wish more cities like Queens, stopped giving Amazon tax breaks to do business. They are making enough money.
14
New York Times, you are great at complex moving graphics. I'd like to see a graphic that shows the movement of lost tax revenue to municipalities and states that instead flowed up to Amazon its executives. Due to incentives, lack of internet sales tax, etc. What could the municipalities and states have done with that money? Instead, it went to Amazon shareholders and the wealth of private individuals. Show it like a river running backwards. Ending in a backwards waterfall dumping millions into mutual funds, bank accounts, airplanes, expensive real estate. Funding new businesses that have no benefit for anyone in Taylor County but sure must satisfy the desires of the wealthiest men on the planet like Bezos (and Musk) who are building literal exploding phallic symbols with our money. Draw this picture so we can all see it clearly. I think it would be illuminating.
13
Wow! It appears these folks have been totally scammed by this corporation. I kept waiting to see how Amazon helped the town in any tangible way, but it never really appears that they have. And the people, so afraid of not having employment, and short on vision that would allow them to develop other opportunities, are content to just play along with the game and let the corporate dictators call all the shots. Very sad indeed!
15
Please note the bigger picture--the state in which this Amazon
center resides. The state that Mitch McConnell owns and says is becoming so successful. In fact, it is one of the poorest states in the country. The county officials had to make a difficult decision--give benefits to Amazon to provide even a few jobs for the people who still reside there. Many of us would like to believe that companies like Amazon are "good" companies who care about their employees and communities--over and over we now see that they are not. Mitch McConnell has done nothing to protect or improve the lives of these people in the state that he "owns." I see no solution to these types of business vs. people (communities) problems being resolved in the future.
20
“The needle has not moved in the last two decades on the quality of life in Kentucky, especially in places like Campbellsville. What does that tell you?” said Jason Bailey of the Kentucky Center for Economic Policy, a research and advocacy group.
On it's own, that doesn't tell me much. What is the counterfactual? Who's to say that without Amazon, Campbellsville's quality of life wouldn't have significantly deteriorated over the last two decades rather than at least maintaining?
6
Everyone seems to hate the oil and gas business, but just drive through Texas,, and everywhere you see a gorgeous school, more than one ambulance or police car, an esplanade around the town center or a professional-level playing field, the industry built it. Amazon could have avoided its terrible reputation by spending some money on hiring a local community relations person and budgeting for meaningful community outreach. (Keyword; MEANINGFUL)
10
Amazon is really good at what they do. They provide jobs for sure. Not the best paying or easiest jobs but an honest pay check. Their insight in how to get to where they are is incredible. They are the new Walmart.
They have capitalized on the gig economy. Drivers, movie makers, writer, distribution centers and now Cargo carriers. If I had UPS or FedEx stock I would sell. They are going to start hitting the legacy cargo haulers soon. A Captain flying for UPS or FedEx get around $325 per hour of work. What does a Pilot at Prime Air make? Well nothing. Amazon has bought airplanes (used warn out formerly people carriers now box hauler airplanes) for already established smaller cargo airlines. Atlas air and a couple others as well as last week Sun Country Airlines. At those smaller Airlines the pay is substantially lower. Sound familiar? An Atlas Air a Captain Flying Amazon owned Prime Air planes makes $179 per hour. The plan is to farm out the cargo plane flying to multiple airlines. The lowest bidder wins. If pilots at a current carrier demand and get raises then Amazon will not renew the contract the next time it is up.
Very soon you will see an Amazon Prime Vacation. Book it through Amazon and you will not know what airline you are going on. Get Amazon travel points for your next trip. I am sure they are working on this.
I am not saying this is right or wrong. Certainly acceptable in a capitalist society.
4
If local businesses had the same range of products as Amazon at equal or lower prices, or had fair policies for return of shoddy or ill-fitting items, I would shop locally.
As it is, my nearest grocery store is 40 minutes round-trip from my home, and my nearest shopping mall is close to an hour round-trip and traffic/parking is a real hassle, so as you see there are many disincentives to shopping locally.
I am pretty sure the people of Taylor County would be very unhappy to see Amazon leave.
2
The article mentions the Fruit of the Loom plant shut down in the 90’s throwing thousands of Campbellsville’s residents out of work from good paying jobs - which went to Central America. And the town suffered as well from the loss of a good corporate citizen.
This same story was repeated thousands of times in communities across America. And you wonder why Trump got elected - it’s really not that hard to understand.
5
Gee, and here I thought Trump got elected because he sets an example by stealing money from
charities to pay for his campaign and painting his portrait
6
Every adult in that town could be making a thousand dollars a month with Yang's UBI or "Freedom Dividend". Amazon instead of paying ZERO TAXES as it did last year would pay a value added tax on every item that passes through their hands.
$36,000 a year for a couple with an eighteen year old going to community college. Think about it.
5
How do Kentuckians vote on taxes and services? Do they elect politicians who raise revenue for the betterment of the entire community? Or do they elect politicians who cut revenue and leave citizens to wonder why their community is so miserable?
This story tries too hard to find a corporate villain, and elicit sympathy for supposedly blameless townspeople -- but voters are ultimately responsible for the communities they create.
Kentucky is getting exactly what it votes for.
21
The higher the wages Amazon pays, the greater their incentive is to ultimately automate leaving all of those unskilled workers unemployed.
5
Kentucky, remains one of the poorest states in the U.S., but gives generous corporate welfare to Amazon, one of the wealthiest coporations in the world.
Meanwhile, the blue states of California, New York, Massachusetts and others, have to transfer their citizen's wealth to Kentucky and other red states to keep them afloat.
Why
20
I cannot find a point in this article. That industrial-age paternalism should return, with towns dependent on charitable giving of ice rinks, country clubs, etc., leaving the entire town vulnerable to a company’s collapse or defection? That workers are not being properly vetted and trained to be managers (probably)?That wages are too low (oddly, you don’t state current wages and benefits, only what someone started at years ago). That local government immorally gave worker earnings to Amazon? Please have a structure and premise.
7
Some more rural areas of the country are returning their land to nature and promoting hiking, camping and a tourist industry. Could that be done here? One thing Amazon cannot deliver is experiences in nature. Or hot coffee.
2
I feel very badly for the people of Campbellsville. They are suffering. Government needs to heop them now and plan for the future by investing in our workforce.
If Campbellsville was the home of a university with a highly skilled work force the situation would be different. America needs to compete for high skilled jobs. It is easy for companies to move jobs dont require human capital.
2
Amazon is criticized for doing everything to keep its prices low.
This of course benefits the consumer.
Who, by the way, will jump to Walmart for a few cents savings.
5
Amazon achieved an obscene stock market capitalization not because of current profits, but because of investor perception they were building a moat around their business with their fulfillment centers. Short term profits were sacrificed, knowing that at some point in the future nobody could effectively compete. Those bargains that Amazon loyalists use to justify their continuing business with the company? They are temporary. The end game is to raise prices to capture monopoly rents. Maybe not now, but coming soon.
4
Campbellsville - 40 miles from the interstate, a 570,000-sq.-foot warehouse and a 1000 workers reminded me that Amazon closed its 915,000 sq. ft., 1000 workers, interstate deprived, warehouse in 2014 after 15 years near Coffeyville, KS, even turning down a multimillion-dollar incentive package to stay. The company said it was constantly realigning and wanting to put its centers closer to their customers.
So, rent (don't buy or build) in a right-to-work state then move when the incentives are used up. Keep moving closer to your customers in the more populated North-East Corridor as you make money and cut costs. (That '477' link shows a messy US business trail of opening and closing all kinds of distribution centers for various reasons simply because there has never been an internet retail merchant of this scale setting itself up for worldwide domination).
I think Campbellsville, KY still has a future with Amazon since it is on the eastern side of the Mississippi River but I'm not putting any bets on that.
5
Kentucky is a right to work state,and along with the tax breaks makes it an ideal place for any corporation to exploit its workers. To be upset with Amazon,Wallmart,or any number of big companies for taking advantage is equivalent to blaming sharks for being predators. Kentucky's popular senior senator,Mitch Mcconnel, pushed through tax reform giving the biggest tax cut in history to corporations. The electorate in Kentucky may be exploited, but they are volunteers not victims. If Amazon leaves then who or what will rush in to provide jobs
20
It is easy in retrospect to see why the USA became so dominant in the last half of the 20th century: geography meant our cities and industrial infrastructure survived WWII intact while factories of Europe were laid to waste and this also meant talented individuals from emigrated to the US to escape the war. If NAFTA or the opening of China didnt happen, something else would have knocked the USA from its supremely dominant position after a few decades. Jeff Bezos clearly never heard JFK's inaugural speech. Stop asking what your country can do for you, Jeff. You are hastening our country's decline.
9
Minimum wage in Kentucky is $7.25 /hr. Amazon pays about $15.00 /hr. Amazon pays for healthcare and dental for its employees. The article states that nearly 1 in 5 people in Taylor county live in poverty. The poverty rate for all of Kentucky is 17.25%. Seems like we are mad at Amazon for not fixing all of Kentucky's problems. Maybe the US should invest in education for all our poor states? Kentucky is rated 45 in education across the US.
20
What do expect? The residents of Storey County, NV. , where Tesla built its battery megafactory, is still waiting for the company to contribute to the county budget. Meanwhile, Nevada public schools rank #49, just ahead of Mississippi.
5
Citizens United
In deed
6
This is about the best deal Campbellsville could ever have hoped for. Let's face it, unskilled labor is not very valuable these days. It's increasingly difficult to compete with Mexico, China and robots.
18
Leaving Amazon aside for the moment: why does rural America think jobs will come to them?
In my experience it’s a constant struggle to follow the work, retraining at night and putting in 80 hours. Advancing means making others work harder.
A spade is a spade, whether it’s rural or urban, factory or finance.
13
“'The people in Seattle are getting rich,' she [Ms. Allen, the mayor] said. 'They don’t care what happens to the people in Campbellsville, not really.'”
Well, Ms Mayor, not all of us up here are getting rich. And many of us do care, not only about declining/stagnant wages/jobs here, but in the rest of America, as well.
We too want our health, education, childcare, etc to be affordable. If that means Seattle's Billionaires like Jeff Bezos and Microsoft's Bill Gates, two of the Richest human beings on the planet, must pay their Fair Share to help support this country that's been a superb source of workers and materials for their enterprises, then we're good with that.
They'll still be fabulously-well-to-do; the rest of us, a little -- or maybe a lot -- less poor.
19
It's too bad that this story was bumped off the main page of the Times site so quickly. The story and the many excellent comments go to the heart of the problems underlying the deep divisions in our politics and our society at large. If we cannot figure out how to keep a modicum of dignified work that provides both social and economic security for the vast majority of our people we will fail as a nation in every way. That is a dark road that will have no good end for any of us.
17
In a nearby suburb of Syracuse NY, a developer is demanding $75 million of tax credits in order to build a 3 million square foot warehouse nearby. It is assumed that the tenant will be Amazon, although the developer( Trammel Crow), refuses to divulge the name until the tax breaks are approved. It is expected that the facility will employ about 900 people, mostly warehouse staff. Having been involved in this this kind of planning during my working career, I estimate at the employment figure is overstated by about a third. This would suggest a benefit to Amazon of about 125K per full-time employee, which seems pretty generous to this local taxpayer.
20
@David DiRoma Despite their proponents hailing more tax income than the current golf course that operates in the proposed location, I think residents will regret it. First of all, it will be an eyesore compared to the current green space and the traffic will be untenable for the nearby village. I realize this sounds like NIMBY-ism but I truly felt the benefit would be felt more in Oswego County -- like in Fulton area vs Liverpool. I think that property could really be better served with a different kind of business. I am surprised it has not had a greater resistance from the Liverpool First group. I mean, they defeated Walmart!
1
Fruit of the Loom did not just leave. It was legislated out of business by the Democrats.
The supply chain was destroyed in the early 1950s when there was a firesafe to Japan of the technology of the transistor and the flood of Japanese electronic equipment. Then Japan began building, not cars, but high quality sewing machine parts and then whole machines including embroidery machines. Italy and Germany too began to flood the American market with sewing, weaving, knitting and other textile machinery. From there is was open season on American manufacturing as we lost the shoe industry, the brass industry, car parts, tires machine tools, and appliances. We brought our own misery and that begat Donald Trump. Bill Clinton didn't have a clue about NAFTA and what destruction it would cause. Now we know. And the Democrats still don't get it. We need jobs, industry, research and development of new jobs and new manufacturing. Stop importing our nation to death!
14
@Jack Frost democrats, huh? yep, i remember that party line NAFTA vote. oh, wait. that's not how it happened. if memory serves, there were more republican supporters in the senate than democrats. more republican votes in the house, too.
the effects of the legislation are as you described, but everybody sold us out. it's a shame that more people don't remember it that way.
6
I read this article with interest since Amazon is currently constructing a fulfillment center less than 2 miles from my home. The town where I live has lots of businesses, big and small, and we're not dependent on Amazon the way that Campbellsville is, but it's still worrying.
From the article: " Amazon said that the money it paid in wages was an investment in Campbellsville and that it had contributed “$15 million in taxes to Taylor County” over the last 20 years. "
Amazon didn't "contribute" taxes to Taylor County; rather, they paid what they were required to by law. That is a really offensive euphemism, clearly intended to make it seem as if Amazon is beneficent. They aren't.
32
This is why so many opposed NAFTA when first considered
10
The trouble with one-horse towns is that opportunity and economic growth will always be limited. Amazon is predatory because our system (tax breaks, incentives, etc) gives these companies the advantage. Campbellsville is lucky to have Amazon because without it they would be a disaster zone. Conversely, Amazon leverages their advantage in these small communities to stay competitive. It is a sad construct....with the people of this small town the beneficiary as well as the loser. Take Campbellsville and multiply it times all the places where Amazon is located and we will see a very similar story.
If "Amazon is the future, we'd like to be part of it" is true...then we, as a society are doomed. Sad to say...because I'm from Seattle and love Amazon as an idea and a provider of goods at reasonable prices. Small town, with the corner, family-owned store, and the local mall, and community centers with band-boxes, etc., are done and gone. So, too, will be our small towns if this is the best we can do.
8
First the textile mills, then the shoe factories, and all the other apparel and textile manufacturing, and thousands of other jobs, industries, factories and lives and livelihoods. All gone because of the North American Free Trade Agreement. Americans do not live better because we pay less. We scrounge for jobs. Any jobs. And we work for peanuts.
Amazon is not Fruit. And it's not a contributor to the local economy in any way except low wages and jobs that may disappear due to automation or some other whimsical reason that no one will under stand but everyone should expect. Amazon is not the future for Campbellsville or any other community. It is only a builder of a pipeline of wealth directed back to the home office. What is troubling is that the town was willing to sell out. Amazon needs to dismantled as does Walmart and other mega-corporations that do not return wealth and prosperity as well as a decent future to workers and communities. Kentucky is one of the poorest states in the Union. Yet the poverty of good, decent jobs remains a plague not just in Kentucky. We've made China and other nations filthy rich buying products that should be made here.
Donald Trump, who I loathe, understands and fed into the anger and rage of people unemployed and without a future due to NAFTA. Our middle class was crushed out of existence. And replaced with $7.50 an hour jobs that barely feed a family. If the the Democrats fail to grasp this Donald Trump will win in November.
29
@Jack Frost Much of the textile industry and shoe manufacturing moved to China-- off-shoring that has nothing to do with NAFTA since China and other Asian nations are not part of that treaty.
2
In the meantime the senior Senator from Kentucky (Mitch McConnell) who also holds the powerful position of Senate Majority Leader is doing exactly what from his constituents (besides being a clone for Trump dressed in a senatorial toga)?
15
I get the tenor of the article: Amazon, the world most valuable consumer company v. struggling small-town America: Kentucky subsidizes super-rich Amazon.
Markets are not rational and neither are politicians. Bezos is the richest man on paper only. Think about it: Amazon's price-earnings ratio is a scary 79 v. Walmart's already high P/E of about 23. Both companies generate about the same profits. Business is about making money.
Change happens when people stand up and start voting their interest -- which in Kentucky and elsewhere is not Republican.
9
Why didn’t the state, town or county incent Fruit of the Loom to stay? They left and then the town invites the parasite Amazon to come in with low wages and grants them tax breaks.
4
So it would have been okay for the town to give incentives to fruit of the loom, but not Amazon?
4
Because you can’t possibly provide incentives that would equal the amount of money the company would make by moving to a country with far cheaper labor and possibly far cheaper costs of doing business.
And yes, incentives for an established company with high wages vs incentives to bring a new company to town with much lower wages and minimal community involvement.
4
@MW
Did Fruit move to Mexico? Because NAFTA stands for the North American Free Trade Agreement. Central America nor South America is not a party to it.
It's actually only a handful of exits beyond the city limits of Louisville, but it looks & feels just like every other struggling small rural town in KY. I've stopped at the outlet there when driving through the area and you'd never know a massive Amazon city is just a few hundred yards off the highway. At the interchange, there's a gas station or two and maybe a few small places to grab a bite. It's very clear the community is not thriving.
Good business, ideally, shouldn't be only about profits & transactions, but about cultivating a positive relationship with employees & the community. That fosters trust and in turn, happy customers. Unfortunately, Amazon seems to have little need to bother.
8
I remember a time (before about 1980) when small towns in the American heartland were unique. Joe's Hardware and Jane's Bakery were small businesses, with owners who lived in the town, and they generally took care of their employees. Then the Big Box stores like Wal-mart and those ugly strip malls moved in and wiped out most Mom & Pop shops, and also removed the much of the personalities of the little towns; it seems like one small town looks like the others. The employee were paid so poorly that they needed "welfare" from the government to survive. Taxpayers paid and CEOs profited.
Now the Big Box stores and strip malls are going out of business, thanks to on-line stores like especially Amazon. Maybe this some kind of Karma? Small businesses can sell things on their own "storefront" on Amazon. I'm not sure this is a bad thing. But I do miss going for a walk down a quaint small-town main street, with shops that offer unique quality products, rather than cheap plastic junk. Too much "stuff". Maybe this is some kind of evolution? Sorry to the big Corporations and Economists, but this junk consumerism and economic growth has got to stop. It's killing the planet. Greta is right.
20
This makes me proud to be a New Yorker.
AOC was right about this one.
21
@Kat
Umm, no. AOC was wrong and so are you. This is a story about an Amazon warehouse, with minimum wage jobs. The jobs that would have come to LIC in the HQ2 deal were high-paying, $125k+/year jobs.
7
In NYC you will pay federal income tax, state income tax and city income tax. After those deductions, you’ll have to pay $25,000 to $40,000 a year in rent and commuting costs. (Forget home ownership) So that $125,000 salary isn’t as lavish as it appears. All for shoe-horning a large development project into an area already stressed by density and high demand for services which would clearly increase pressure on prices/costs. And would put pressure on established residents as the marketplace changed as well as pressure on the city to improve/increase infrastructure and services likely at ... taxpayer expense.
Nope. 125K in NYC isn’t the generous salary you imply.
5
And yet, the people of Queens don’t seem to be whining about Amazon like you are.
The raise in rent and congestion was not worth a few six figure jobs.
2
That is probably true that the people in Seattle don’t care too terribly much about life in Kentucky. I met someone 3 years ago who worked for Gatorade in their marketing department in Chicago. When I asked if she’d ever visited the plant where the products she marketed were made she made a look of disgust and said she didn’t like visiting the plant. I can’t say I blame her. Rural, blue collar areas don’t shine like the city, but without them, could cities and companies like Amazon exist and succeed in the way that they do?
10
Campbellsville's White population is declining. the drop is being offset my Hispanic folks. Unskilled White workers are being replaced by unskilled Hispanic workers. This allows Amazon to keep labor costs low until they can replace most workers with automation. That will happen and then the Campbellsvilles will really sufffer.
That said, would Campbellsville be better off eithout Amazon? I don't hear anyone in this article say that. They just want Amazon to contribute more. But that's like mourning the loss of the 1970 Fruit of the Loom jobs that paid $100/hr in 2019 dollars. In a global economy, that was unsustainable. And that's the world we live in today.
11
Wonder how you can support a family on 7 bucks an hour with no medical insurance.
I hear Amazon owner Bezos wants to plow his profits into space exploration and not paying a living wage.
Maybe outgoing governor Bevin can give him a pardon?
Make
The
Rich
Great
Again
9
@Richard Pontone
"Wonder how you can support a family on 7 bucks an hour with no medical insurance."
You can't. If you/re making only $7/hour, you shouldn't be thinking about getting married or having kids. You should be thinking about how to improve your skills so you can get a better job.
12
@Richard Pontone - Nothing is stopping Kentucky from raising their minimum wage law. Would Walmart pay any better?
4
@Richard — You can be certain, that the microbe Jeff finds on Pluto will work for half and no bathroom breaks!
A structural and contagious issue happening in all the developed nations. What can be done ? Probably nothing can be done
Hand-wringing and tears will be multiplied when Amazon pulls out, as the company will inevitably do. Amazon is in business to make a profit, not to enrapture NYT reporters or engender wholesome feelings among members of the local community. Imagine someone in this small KY community being paid $100/hour to sew collars on tee shirts? That’s what was happening prior to NAFTA. Made no sense then and less sense now. That kind of work should be done in Myanmar or Zambia.
2
It should be illegal to give tax breaks to businesses. Cities and states bidding against each other generates nothing except a race to the bottom for everyone. A race to unfunded schools, unfunded services that will only be funded on the backs of taxpayers.
Republicans screamed bloody murder about government picking winners when they heard about Solyndra but republican states throw money at corporations at a much higher rate.
17
Sure. Why don't we just pass a law that says everybody needs to be paid $250,000 a year to do a job that can be done by a monkey or an iPad? Let's see how that works out.
Lesson learned? Doubt it.
2
Good thing he then spends that money on his childish pipe dream of going to Mars or on creating a fleet of noisy drones. looking forward to both ...
5
Yes, the problem is Amazon. And it is Walmart, and it is Jeff Bezos and the Walton family as well as other mega corporations that place selfish gain above all else. When you look at the profits hoarded by the leaders of these companies it becomes clear, they would still be rich beyond all reasonable measure even if they paid their workers better, offered better benefits and reinvested in these communities.
Not all companies operate this way. UPS (here in Kentucky where I live) for instance, offers attractive programs for education for those who want to work hard and they contribute generously to the community. Kentuckians deserve better treatment than what they get from Amazon. They need us more than we need them. In the fulfillment business you cannot move your operation to Mexico and still offer free 2 day shipping. What we're seeing is the result of labor not organizing itself properly.
24
@Johnny Since Reagan, Republicans have succeeded in getting the white working man to hate unions. A propaganda coup for the ages.
11
@Johnny Hooray! Somebody gets it. You can automate and offshore so many jobs. But you can't automate and offshore all jobs. Some of them are inherently local and inherently human. People need to rediscover unions.
11
Here we go with the weekly NYT anti-Amazon hit piece. These weekly despatches are startling in their one-sidedness.
Take the chart in the article for example - The chart on the left shows that Taylor County has generally grown faster than the national median income (including at over +500 bps since 2015), except during the worst years of the great recession. Also, thestock price chart left me scratching my head - amazon stock has underperformed the NASDAQ for at least two years. So, I'm not sure what to make of these data points and how the conclusing that median household income "has barely kept pace with inflation" can be drawn. Interestingly, the data shows a strong surge that exceeds national growth by over 500bps since 2016 which was when Amazon announced its $15 minimum wage and benefits packages.
I'm also curious how the conclusion that this makes Campbellsville a case study for "what may happen" can be drawn from a chart showing median income, when the only thing that indicates is that Taylor County incomes are very susceptible to economic swings given the large temporary workforce. Seems like these stories have a pre-determined narrative and then every effort is made to provide some serious looking artifact (like these charts).
7
@reader You must work for Amazon. Yes Amazon needs some talking about and for good reason.
9
the tech industry has figured out that the real money lies in being a middleman ( Amazon). By that I mean serving as the in-between point for, say, web traffic to newspapers and magazines (Google); or being the go-between for taxi services( Uber), coordinating drivers and passengers through apps. In both of these examples, the original product isn't that different from the pre-tech world: a taxi ride, in the latter case, a news article in the former. OR, the goods sold by Amazon and their third parties.The difference is that a tech behemoth takes a cut of the transaction. And also in many cases, the labor — the people making and producing and doing the things the tech industry takes a slice from — is more precarious, less well-remunerated, and less safe than it was in the pre-tech era.
Looking at it this way, the tech industry doesn't really seem innovative at all. Or rather, its sole innovation seems to be exploiting workers with more cruelty, and positioning itself in the middle of more transactions. Granted, there are certain services that have become more convenient because of apps and smartphones — but there is no reason that convenience must come at the high cost that it does, besides the tech industry's insatiable lust for profit. Here are but a few examples of how our livelihoods and our societies have been worsened by Silicon Valley as it sinks its talons into new industries.
7
Amazon gobbles up everything. This may sound funny, but at holiday time I thank my employees and wish Happy Holidays.
Would have loved to have seen a personal note to sellers wishing them Happy Holidays and thanking the five star sellers for doing a great job and being part of the Amazon eco system. Instead in Amazon fashion, the only anything was the news that Amazon has record sales. (Of course they did, they have more sellers than ever so I ignored this so called news).
Do NOT count on Amazon on being in in your town. They are money centric, metric centric. God forbid someone dies and throws a schedule out for five minutes. Management will immediately fire you.
5
@Oh My When I heard about the record online sales I was not impressed. I mean, hello, record numbers of department, discount and boutique storefronts have closed. Where else are people going to shop?
What would happen to Campbellsville if Amazon left? What happened to much of Detroit when auto factories left.
At least the potential for a job gives people the option to stay who may have elderly parents or other extended family.
2
The problem isn't Amazon, the problem isn't even Kentucky, nor even the Federal government. The problem is we the consumer, we the society, we the taxpayer.
We want to pay less for more, we take now for future generations to pay later, we vote for whoever takes less in taxes even if it means we get less in services and support.
The praise of profit over people, not calling profit what it really is - a corporate tax on consumers or an exploitation of a market due to market inefficiencies (many which are lobbied and paid for with gains from consumers).
The praise of individual rights over society benefits, A world where the leaders follow the writing of Machiavelli's The Prince and Ayn Rands' Atlas Shrugged rather than the lessons of Aesop's Fables or Platos' Gorgias.
The praise of hoarding wealth over pursuit of equality for all, regardless of gender, race, religion, sexual orientation, and economic standing. Such that those getting tax breaks are deemed as capitalist role models and those living off their social security pensions they invested in lifelong as socialist moochers.
This is the false narrative being driven in the media, in the classrooms, in the pulpits of Prosperity Gospel churches.
When will people understand one is only as rich as their poorest neighbour, that leading a wealthy life is different than leading a rich life based on exploitation and hoarding?
Not until Capitalism completely fails, will people wake up.
28
Well put. Amen.
@James Wallis Martin - "When will people understand one is only as rich as their poorest neighbour..."
You are one of the few people to understand this.
2
Just last night we watched the Frank Capra classic "It's a Wonderful Life" I can't help but draw the parallel between the movie villain "Mr. Potter" and Amazon. The citizens of Campbellsville may be happy that they have jobs, but are they happy how they are also beholden to their employer?
Amazon and Jeff Bezo continue to steamroll over the hard working owners and employees of small businesses and expect us to thank them for it. And we do, we thank them by giving them enormous tax breaks and by refusing to demand community involvement, and like hostages with Stockholm Syndrome we develop a gratitude and affection towards our captors.
I have witnessed the effect of Amazon's expansion here in Seattle. I can only imagine in Campbellsville the impact is more pronounced due to it's size and level of dependence. It may not be much, but I prefer to continue to reject that influence by not buying from Amazon. It's my way of helping to slow the transition of Campbellsville to "Pottersville" and the USA becoming Amazonia.
10
I agree, everything would have been better if Amazon had stayed away. Then everyone would have moved away to high paying jobs and the town could have closed up. Did you not see the real cause—-NAFTA. L
2
A good question to ask is where would this town be if Amazon had not arrived at all? Would it be better, or worse? Another large corporation may have arrived, but who can say that the outcome would have been better? It's not likely. Global forces and trade deals are to blame for this situation, not Amazon. Unfortunately, I don't think the new trade deals will "move the needle" and benefit this town very much. It would be good if Amazon was a little more generous with the town, though. A little goodwill could go a long way.
9
Thank you for stating the painfully obvious to many with the exception of the writer. The media believes there always has to be a villain and they are wrong. As H. L. Mencken posited - "For every complex question there is a simple answer - and it's wrong".
6
Our corporate culture needs to change. Shaming Amazon for behaving like every other company feels good, and is likely a good thing for what small good it does, but it doesn't address the real problem: a government that values Amazon shareholders, and doesn't value people.
Capitalism itself isn't the problem, the problem is government tax breaks to business. Low wage work isn't really the problem, the problem is the downward pressure that local governments purposely put on wages with low minimum wages and no tax penalty for businesses that pay so little their workers need public assistance.
The fixes for this are not terribly complicated. Make minimum wage line up with the minimum wage required to meet basic needs, switch from employer based healthcare to a non-profit, government run, model. Free job training and college for workers reduces stagnation, and a basic minimum income would remove the yoke of slavery that employers can hold in a small town.
The fixes are simple, obvious, and all being discussed and debated by Democrats running for President. It's time for the Republican Racists to wake up and start caring about people in this country, not profits.
10
"Fruit...built the first public tennis courts and paid the city $250,000 in 1965 to expand the wastewater disposal plant. Factory executives spurred the creation of a country club and the public swimming pool.
The easy times ended with the North American Free Trade Agreement, which took effect in 1994..."
That was when Businesses were not elevated to God-hood. They were seen as a crucial member of the community, not held above them! Which is what the GOP basically did with their historically sudden quick turn of adoration and zealotry of Corporate America. They took the Corps, out of the community and raised them to the Mountain tops...like Gods. They became the only reasons for this country to exist. To provide a base and labor for their needs. And when the labor became too costly and demanding, aka Unions, they began their attack on that structure. Winning their demise, by seducing the very people who most benefited from and often were members of those Unions! Less educated, white males, who believed they were owed the very jobs their daddy, Grand daddy worked.
Simultaneously aligning with the higher paid, better educated white males in the cities where the financial decisions were being made that pushed for those employers out in the hinterlands to go elsewhere, so to raise their stock values.
It was a pretty deft play. Lying to and winning alliance from white males out in fly-over land, while dining and drinking with those white males wearing the expensive suits.
4
Maybe the people and politicians in Cambellsville should take a class on corporate governance at Cambellsville University. It might ignite them to weed out Amazon and any future googly-eyed CEOs.
3
The local community seems to appreciate Amazon. Who are we better to know what’s going to work for them?
Let them decide if they’re getting the short end of the stick. If it materializes then that’s the way they’ll need to learn...
4
If the people working in that warehouse organized they could bargain better wages and avoid the sort of arbitrary management they now must endure. Extracting a greater share of the value they create might better their community as well.
2
No, Pollyanna, that's not how it works. If the workers in this fulfillment center organize themselves into a union, Amazon will simply move their jobs to a different city that would be happy to have them.
10
Take a look at the cars in the Amazon Warehouse Parking lot. I don't see many over 5 yrs old. Just saying.
7
@Making it … I was thinking the same thing. Looks like a fairly well-off middle class.
4
Boy, you two have really good eyesight and know a LOT about cars. Based on the picture there are definitely some cars less than five years old but to make a generalization is challenging and ridiculous. Having lived in Campbellsville and I can say it is not a thriving area. Furthermore to make an assumption of how well a town is doing based on 25 - 30 cars is also ridiculous but thanks for the enlightening comments. You have made the world a better place.
10
People don't seem to notice the decimation of their town until the whole downtown becomes a ghost town. By then, it's too late to start buying things at an actual store. Amazon is taking advantage of people's natural preference for convenience and we are all suckers to get addicted to it. Why in the world do we really need things in one or two days -- even at the cost of injuring fellow human beings working at the break neck pace at these warehouses? If you need it that badly, go to the store.
5
Predatory capitalism that ONLY cares about profit risks alienating enough people that a backlash can occur. I warned my Venezuelan friends 25 years ago. They chuckled. Now they sweat that theirs will be the next property to be expropriated. Sad.
2
The reason there are Amazon facilities in places like KY is because Bezos wanted to influence politicians like McConnell and the same thing applies if you look at his other facilities in red states. Bezos will drop his lawsuit against the government over the awarding of the JEDI contract to Microsoft because Trump has most likely assured him of numerous other contracts. You can tell Bezos is softening because he is being really nice towards Trump in the Washington Post. Ugh! Vote out the GOP!
6
NAFTA was signed into law by Bill Clinton. 23 years later, Obama tried to foist the TPP on us all. It’s a good example of how voting for a corporate Democrat is essentially the same as voting for a Republican. Take note Biden supporters.
Bernie Sanders recognizes these corporate-friendly trade agreements for the wrecking balls they are, destroying communities and offshoring jobs. Hillary, on the other hand, praised them before running for President in 2016 and then cynically appeared to oppose them on the campaign trail. It’s this lack of conviction and empathy for ordinary Americans by the political establishment that should taint their candidacies, were it not for the corporate media running interference on their behalf.
14
Amazon is a monopoly on a scale that is unprecedented in history. It has its tentacles in every American pocketbook. And Jeff Bezos owns The Washington Post, the most powerful lobbyist in the US... But let's talk about impeachment.
4
@PGB - "It has its tentacles in every American pocketbook."
Not in mine. People act like Amazon is the only store online but guess what? Every product I ever look at on Amazon is made by a company who has their OWN website and I can order from them directly leaving Bezos out of the loop. I use Amazon for the reviews which gives me a half-decent idea of what customers think of any given product.
2
So my interpretation of this article is that Amazon has been a huge benefit to Campbellsville.
1) The unemployment rate was 28% before Amazon came to town. I don't see the current figure, but given that Campbellsville median income is outpacing national income, I'd guess it's a fraction of where it started.
2) Amazon paid $350,000 in taxes to the school system just this year. They also paid the county $410,000 in property taxes. They spent $53M in building a warehouse which improved that property and generated those taxes. That building probably benefitted the local construction industry as well.
3) It employs upwards of 1,000 people who pay a 4% income tax to the state. If the state gives that money to Amazon, blame that on the state politicians. If the schools keep having to cut expenses, blame that on the elected officials as well. If need be, raise income or property taxes to offset those cuts
In the early days of Amazon, analysts used to question whether they would ever be able to make money, as they weren't profitable for many years. The investment paid off and now everyone blames them for making too much.
No question that Amazon's most glamorous jobs are elsewhere. I'm not sure how many computer programmers, IT specialists and financial wizards live in Taylor County. They have flocked to the northeast and west coast. However Amazon has clearly brought jobs and money to a part of KY that was struggling.
11
You've clearly convinced yourself of that!
I'm not.
I'm tired of industry bullying counties, cities, towns and states for socialized hand-outs.
And Amazon is only doing what every other company looking for a site location does- out one community against another for the best "deal".
My father was economic developer in the county we lived in in upstate NY many years ago. He had to play by those rules then too.
Reduced electric rates, tax abatement, IDA bonds, etc.
And all of the profits go to the big, fancy cities on the coasts, while these communities hold bake sales to keep the heat on in their schools.
It's so gross.
But these are the rules that are played by. So amazon is no villain, per se.
But when I hear politicians railing against "socialism", I only wish they were talking about this!
9
Unfortunately, humans prefer simple to simplistic answers to very complex questions. Hence we accept the idea that somehow the POTUS and big corporations create jobs. It sounds right but the reality is that customers with disposable incomes create jobs by purchasing non-essential goods and services.
Yet, we're convinced that regions, states, counties and towns have to compete with lower-and-lower taxes and giveaways in order to get these big corporations in their towns to "create jobs."
This only adds to the income gap that has become a chasm that few of us ever cross.
What is the solution? I don't know but I do know that almost everyone will gravitate to the best sound-byte and simplistic answer provided by the wealthiest folks because, as Tevea said: "When you're rich they think you really know..."
6
It's the shut-down of Fruit of the Loom that got my attention. This was a basic American name in basic utilitarian clothing, something everybody needs. I am reminded of Levi Strauss & Co. who largely outsourced all of their production to foreign places. Their classic 501 jeans are grossly inferior to the ones that were made here. Sizes are inaccurate, dye is erratic and the jeans literally do not last as long as they did.
For years I didn't grasp what people were saying about "neoliberalism." I thought the global economy was good because it helped raise people out of poverty around the world. It probably had been good to a degree but obviously we badly overshot the sweet spot. Trump saw this and exploited it. None of the New Democrats had a clue. And neither did I.
I'm luckier than most people. When I needed a new bed a few years back I could afford to buy one manufactured in San Francisco. It was impressively expensive. But it is made to be flipped and rotated! To last a long time! And making it employed some of my compatriots.
Those of us who are able to really need to buy local when possible. Forget the prices. Sit down and think long and hard about the concept of false economy.
8
They say developed nations like the US have predominantly service-based economies. Lesser-developed nations are where manufacturing happens because the labor is cheaper. If manufacturing were to return more to the US it will not result in higher manufacturing employment because labor costs are high here. It would all be automated. It’s just reality.
3
Amazon isn't the future folks. Governments, voters, ext. will eventually outlaw this type of set-up. A business that doesn't support the community isn't a business worth having. Amazon will likely be nationalized in the course of my lifetime.
6
OK, what is the problem? Is it that people want more money, or that the town wants more?
Is the problem that they don't make as much as Jeff Bezos?
Or perhaps towns and states should not be able to give tax breaks?
Until you specify the problem, you won't be able to come up with a solution.
And if you want the economy of Seattle, why not move there?
9
The benefits are work. People have a reason to get up in the morning. Yes, the wages are low but for
marginal people and or people who want to work a second job... it's an opportunity. It's something for them.
6
And it’s an opportunity for us taxpayers to relieve Jeff Bezos of the burden of paying a living wage for his workers, by kicking in for food stamps and housing assistance, and make up the shortfall in tax revenue for schools and infrastructure.
25
@Xoxarle
Yes, they should get paid more. We all should get paid more for that matter. But it's up to individuals if they accept employment... not a political orthodoxy.
2
Yeah, I mean who doesn’t want to work a second job?
4
Amazon and the other GAFAs need to be broken up into separate companies and heavily regulated so that they can no longer form vertically integrated, market dominant conglomerates. The power these corporations have is destroying any remnants of democracy and rule of law.
15
Amazon's presence not working out too well?
Could be why Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez began an extensive review of the company's plans to open a location in Queens.
8
@Mike Edwards
That would have been headquarters #2, not a distribution center. This project probably now goes totally to Virginia, instead of half and half. And it would have been inside the city limits, not just across the line, as in Kentucky, so all benefits to NYC and the local communities. Finally, she just jumped on the bandwagon, it's not in her district. 12/27/19 5:31 pm
2
Why doesn't Campbellsville do what tons of other cities have done and expand the city boundaries to include big tax payers like this Amazon fulfillment center? That something the city could do but instead, we just get this non-starter, “I really would feel better if they would contribute to our needs.” Great, make them instead of wishing into the void. Really, what business - any business - pays taxes to a city that it is not located in?
16
An excellent question. Other cities in Kentucky have done just that.
DNC/Democrats - pay attention. Action speaks louder than words.
Conduct a few pilots in the USA where you team up with towns and companies to apply the right incentives and taxes to help the town, people, and company to be successful.
I could lay out a formula but smarter wealthy liberals should be able to determine the metrics and kick-start a success.
When it's successful THAT IS HOW YOU GET THE VOTES not only in red states but blue. It would be a model platform for the country.
OH..another idea - while you're at it add in a ton of sustainability and show how it saves money, provides a healthier environment, and puts us on the road to meet global warming challenges.
8
I am currently a prime user. At the end of the year last year I created a spreadsheet of the items I purchased during that year on Amazon with corresponding costs for the item and costs that I paid in shipping. I then went shopping again for the same items without using Amazon. I learned that I actually didn't save much money and the amount of money I did save wasn't worth destroying communities. I found that most of the items where sold directly from the manufacturer's website for the same cost and sometimes less and most of the time shipping was also free. I've been mindful of this over the last year. I just did another inventory of this previous year's purchases and confirmed my results from last years report. What it really comes down to is better planning on my part as a consumer. If I don't wait until the last minute to buy something there are actually plenty of other options than purchasing from Amazon.
This article has been a great reminder of what this company is doing to our society.
I am canceling Prime today. I'm going back to supporting my local economy.
The true cost of Amazon to your community... https://www.indiebound.org/spotlightamazon
43
@s.r Prime products are not the best deal in town. I made a conscious effort not to buy many gifts from Amazon, but bought from other websites which had great prices, free shipping and returns. I also shopped local, and bought locally made goods.
I HATE in particular that Amazon looks like Aliexpress and filled with overseas junk of the lowest quality. This was NOT the case two years ago, and Amazon represented quality merchandise. As a seller of niche goods, the cheap, counterfeit, secondhand goods bring down the quality and unique items on the website. It’s just very bad at the moment.
1
@s.r. - "I found that most of the items where sold directly from the manufacturer's website for the same cost and sometimes less and most of the time shipping was also free."
I keep wondering when folks will wake up to this fact.
The only solution to this problem will be massive levels of redistribution.
Coders will have to settle for the basic Tesla, as horrifying as that prospect may be.
6
Bravo! This is what the New York Times and the Wall Street Journal do best: major investigative journalism projects. Well done! Well balanced! Why doesn't PBS Frontline do a study of Amazon's impact on the nation? They've gone way off track--obsessed with Donald Trump. Not to mention CNN which is nothing more than chattering heads.
5
Corporations as incentivized taxing operations. Enuf winning yet?
#Socialism?
2
Are those bloodsoaked wedding dresses selling like hotcakes? I think I'm gonna go there and get one even though I would have to get "re-assigned",To be able to fit into one!
1
Way to go Mitch McConnell! And yet these people continue to vote for the most corrupt Senator EVER! They get what they deserve.
15
@Marc R
This is a state issue, not federal. McConnell has nothing to do with it.
4
I don’t understand the point.
McConnell is “state” as a senator.
And he is catastrophic as a human being or as anybody who cares about anything other than Trump or the fascist right wing!
Who is not paying attention to his behaviors and lack of principles?
Maybe Kentucky deserves whatever they are,in fact, not really getting from him.
But both Mitch and wife Elaine are making MILLIONS from their Chinese and other investments. Kentuckians voted them in; no Kentuckians who contributed to their kleptomaniac tendencies have no standing to complain!
Dumbest article ever. Adapt or Die. Too many of us have forgotten what it means to be human, to anticipate and quickly adapt to change. It's what sets us apart from other species... Oh right - it's the sheeple complaining about this. Wake up folks, change will only get faster from here!
4
@M
Best article ever. The Dems will be taxing Bezos big time now.
Frankly, I'm sick of my federal tax dollars going to our bottom-of-the-barrel poorest states like Kentucky. They wouldn't need my money if they'd wake up and stop giving tax breaks to Bezos--Bezos should be paying more taxes to them so I don't have to.
1
@CF
If they stopped giving incentives like this to companies like Amazon, they would need even MORE of your money. Did you read the article? The town lost thousand of jobs when FOTL left. By bringing Amazon to town, they mitigated some of that damage. But without Amazon, there would be at least 600 more people who need unemployment benefits, food stamps, rental assistance, etc.
All of us as Americans need to stop subsidizing profitable companies and the billionaires that own them with our tax dollars.
12
You can have Wealth in the hands of a few or a Democracy. You cannot have both.
20
Boycotting Amazon does little harm to it unless many people join in, and often harms the boycotters by limiting their choices and increasing their prices. Regulating and taxing it would do more to control its behavior and its effects on the structure of our communities, but such regulation must be on a national or even international level to be effective. Our national government has lost the ability to regulate effectively and is not trusted to do so.
Amazon is a means by which money is transferred from consumers to investors and from small local businesses to huge national/international ones. Of course, investments are profitable because they make stuff to be consumed; investors themselves as investors do not consume. So as the economy is dominated more by investors, it shrinks and the profit that feeds investments (the return on investments) diminishes.
2
Amazon pays no taxes because about half the people in the country vote against themselves ( but in Kentucky I’m guessing it’s close to 100%.)
15
Amazon ruthlessly innovates, optimizes and applies pressure to ALL aspects of its operations. A year or so ago, there were articles about how their well-paid knowledge workers are also under relentless pressure.
The result is that you can buy a replacement part for your trackhoe from Amazon for HALF what it costs at a traditional dealer.
And folks do. They will take that deal every time. People want to, as WalMart advertises, "Save money, live better." Amazon is driving down the cost of distributing items that people want to buy. That's a good thing, but there needs to be protection from the harsh impacts of economic disruption and prohibition of monopolistic practices; education, labor unions, environmental regulations, and an end to government give-aways to companies that surely do not need the boost.
5
Three changes would help Amazon and all the communities in which it is situated:
1) Amazon should pay more in taxes everywhere it has fulfillment centers, data centers, and offices.
2) As the most influential corporation in the US, Amazon should regularize its charitable giving to its host communities.
3) Amazon should institutionalize and make easy for its managers and workers to participate in community service, voting and political office, and building up of strong communities.
None of these changes would change Amazon’s business model, but they would buffer Amazon from self destruction, and they would help make our towns and cities more deeply meaningful places.
7
A confession:
I have lived my American dream working for high-tech companies for more than 20 years.
I strongly disagree with my wife when it comes to buying things online.
I have relatives living in Wisconsin, Tennessee. I know how their American dreams have been shattered, and why their towns became ghost towns.
In short: I hate my career. I hate high-tech. I feel guilty seeing thousands of people living in tent all around Silicon Valley.
10
@NguyenSJC
Don't live with hate and guilt. Change your career! Surely your skills can adapt to another platform.
3
This community is suffering because Kentucky citizens elect Republicans to office. They cut taxes in a race to the bottom. If you want services, it requires something. Kentucky is a state resolutely fails to invest in its citizens.
34
@James cunningham
"Kentucky is a state resolutely fails to invest in its citizens."
That's true! What isn't true in the rest of your comment is that this failure to invest is solely the fault of Kentucky Republicans. Kentucky Democrats have a dismal record of investing in its citizens, too.
Signed,
A Kentucky Democrat
3
The real problem here is the concentration of wealth in the USA among the rich few percent has never been higher. Like many large multinationals, Amazon pays virtually no corporate income tax.
How do you reverse this situation to where wealth is more equally distributed? I would suggest eliminating corporate tax and replace it with Value add tax, property taxes, reduce capital gains tax, and tax companies that do not pay for health care. Then increase the minimum wage to $15 per hour for all.
6
@Joseph B - Or, folks could just quit buying from billionaires. People throng to Starbucks when there are sooooo many other, better coffee shops. But rather than spread our shopping dollars around giving every American the chance to become a billionaire, we just keep going back to the same ones and give them more.
I live in Seattle and don't shop at Starbucks or Amazon. I admit to having a copy of Windows on my pc but it came with the box. I have never been inside a Walmart.
The problem is the shoppers of America.
Interesting that you tend to point to a successful company as being the culprit for the city, county and the people being "unsuccessful". Your history should include the threats that Union Underwear (later Fruit of the Loom) made to the city and county about bringing in more industry and businesses to the area. Another consideration is the lack of forward-looking leadership this community has had for years. You should also note that Taylor County is always on the edge of someone's Representative district - we are never the center. While we have good roads, good access and a great airport, we are several miles from an interstate highway. You also must consider the people. You must also consider that the graduation rate at Campbellsville University for incoming freshmen is 31%.
There are several more components to the issue than one company, one industry, or even places of employment in general. The American Dream is alive and well for those who believe it and work to achieve it! Just because Walmart and Amazon has achieved a higher degree of success does not mean that they are the cause and reason that others have not.
13
@Tim An interesting comparison with Campbellsville would be Georgetown and Scott County's growth due to Toyota.
3
I’m reminded of the good folks in Maine who lost the good furniture making jobs to North Carolina who offered those companies tax incentives and a non- union labor force. And when those residents of NC cried out when those jobs moved overseas... well I had to laugh. What goes around comes around. Hopefully the politicians and the share holders of AMZN will get theirs soon enough
9
Not that long ago, the land Bezos has turned into his empire in Seattle's South Lake Union area was up to be made a park on the scale of New York's Central Park. If only.
8
Blame that on activists and the Seattle city council. They were afraid low income residents of “cascadia” as it was called, would be forced out if a park was created. Guess what? They were forced out anyway and now we have Amazons really ugly and dystopian looking black glass boxes instead of a park.
4
And which Omaha based holding conglomerate purchased Fruit of the Loom and moved it to Central America--I think it was El Salvador?
Tax to the boss needs to be explicitly illegal. But not just in Kentucky of course.
6
What else do we expect when we go from a country that makes things to a country that sells things made by others, and those service jobs are replaced by machines. Effectively, we have imported cheap labor from countries that practice mercantilist trade policies.
But, hey, make government out to be the bad guy, destroy the social fabric, and then vote for an Oligarch acting for the 1%. That will make American great again, sure.
7
A number of commenters on this well-written article seem to think that the tax incentives that corporations like Amazon received from the State of Kentucky or from local governments here have anything to do with Republican policies, solely, and in particular that of the Trump Administration and/or Senator McConnell. As a Democrat who has lived in Kentucky for the majority of my life, I'd like y'all to know that most of those incentives were probably granted at the state level by Democratic administrations. Kentucky has (thankfully) only had two Republican Governors during my lifetime, and both were one-termers (and perhaps our most recent one, Matt Bevin, may be indicted soon, we'll see). While it's true that Taylor County is and has been a solidly Republican County, Kentucky's turn into a GOP stronghold has only been recent. Indeed, registered Democrats still outnumber Republicans here, and back in the halcyon go-go '90s, Bill Clinton won the state twice.
The problem isn't that the Trump Administration, Mitch McConnell, Rand Paul, Matt Bevin and the entirety of the Republican Party aren't terrible, especially for workers -- clearly they are! The problem is that tax giveaways to large corporations are popular with politicians of both parties, much to the public's detriment. Louisville's Democratic Mayor, Greg Fischer, gave Omni Hotels $5 million in tax incentives to build here, for example. Guess who he endorsed in 2020 already? Michael Bloomberg, ugh.
19
Corporate America cares nothing about anything but profit. CEO's only want to increase their paychecks and golden parachutes. Politicians only care about their re-election and which companies will hire them after they leave office. At some point we have to limit all elected officials to one term, for our sake.
3
@Bob Drdul - "At some point we have to limit all elected officials to one term, for our sake."
Hear, hear! If politicians only served one term, they would actually get something done rather than spend their lives campaigning and making every decision based upon their chance for reelection.
Or it would incentivize them to quickly sell their souls because they only have one bite at the apple.
The root issue here's the tax cut incentive. When you allow this much power to consolidate into a business or an individual, you relinquish the say you once had in a democracy & the possibility of legislating the dire circumstances associated with their strangle hold on the society or economy at large. This is Capitalism & a Capitalists ability to own large swaths of land for personal profits, not collective security, safety or meritocracy. Readers should view the desolate moonscapes left by other manufacturing locations or the economic despair retained various by shipping facilities...
9
@Julian
"The root issue here's the tax cut incentive. When you allow this much power to consolidate into a business or an individual..."
What does that mean? No individual or corporation has the power to grant any tax incentive to itself.
We have seen moments like these in our economy before. Shortly before the Great Depression, there were monopolies everywhere, specifically oil. John D. Rockefeller created such poor conditions for the nation and the common worker. Jeff Bezos is our modern day JDR. Amazon is creating a monopoly of the online business market and has begun to take control of the governmental loop holes. It won’t be too long before another collapse like the Depression will come back to bite us again.
7
@Jacob Helton
The retail part of Amazon is only half its business. The other half is an enormous cloud computing empire that has enormous government contracts which support his takeover of retail. Our tax payments are subsidizing this and I wish that the Times would include that in its reporting. The Bezos owned Washington Post certainly won't.
@Jacob Helton - I did a fair amount of online shopping this past year and no Amazon. I shopped online with a local cannabis store (I then went and picked it up), with ethnic takeouts, Home Depot and Lowes (2/3rds of what they sell is "online"), Performance Bicycle, Jenson USA, Sweetwater, and others. Amazon is not a monopoly but everyone seems to think it is the only online store there is...kind of like the way people think that Starbucks is the only coffee shop.
Bezos raised his minimum wage to $15 per hour which is twice the national amount. Did Rockefeller ever do such a thing? Or the owners of Walmart?
Tax breaks for locating to a city must become illegal. Bezos has so much money he bought a national newspaper AND a grocery chain, to mention a few of his acquisitions. The money that should have gone to U.S. infrastructure and education is in the pockets of Bezos and Amazon shareholders.
17
If Americans demanded and were willing to pay for American made goods, there would be many decent jobs available and much better products. If you object to off-shoring, stop buying things built off-shore. American consumers and hyper-consumerism is a huge part of the low-wage job problem. Any family that is getting “stuff from Amazon almost every day of the week” is not in a position to complain.
20
Let's start with the fact this is Kentucky, whose senator has enabled more wanton destruction of people's lives than anyone else in the country. Without him, Trump wouldn't have gotten anywhere. And yet, he gets elected every time easily.
But the fundamental expectation that a big company will come in and fix the town seems really strange to me. This town had that - Fruit. They put all their eggs in that basket and never diversified, then got demolished when Fruit left. Countries that rely on a single product for their economy (e.g. Venezuela on oil) also get destroyed in the same way. You can't survive like that in a marketplace. Small towns across the country need education and training initiatives so they can survive in the future world. The US should be creating a highly educated workforce that can run the computers instead of being replaced by the automation.
Amazon is a terrible company for treating people so poorly, but that's why you should support a strong government that provides support for workers and balances that with support for investing in companies. The US will not lose all it's big businesses just because they tax more. But they will lose any educated workforce, and that will do far more damage in the long run because other countries are improving their education.
61
@RB
"But the fundamental expectation that a big company will come in and fix the town seems really strange to me. This town had that - Fruit. They put all their eggs in that basket and never diversified, then got demolished when Fruit left."
The article clearly mentions Campbellsville's hospital (Taylor Regional Hospital) and university (Campbellsville University, natch). From Wikipedia:
"Campbellsville University (CU) published its 2016/2017 economic impact report showing an annual impact of $106,482,540. Of that, $42.9 million impact the local economy. The university's operations directly employ and support over 13.26% of all jobs in Taylor County, Kentucky.
"Taylor Regional Hospital (TRH) - The expanding healthcare system serves the region of 110,000 people. TRH is one of the area's largest employers. In 2016, TRH served 98,900 patients."
Campbellsville is also home to a factory for INFAC North America, an auto parts manufacturer/supplier which, from a quick Google search, got something like $700K in incentives from Kentucky in 2013. Those incentives were approved by then-Governor Beshear's administration, and I am pretty sure Mitch McConnell had little-to-nothing to do with it, since he's our lousy senior U.S. Senator, not a state official.
A more complete, concise, and depressing look at rural/small town economies would perhaps contrast Campbellsville with communities that don't have a regional hospital system or university, of which there are plenty in my state.
6
Good points there. It is interesting. And about strong government... We keep saying that there are three branches of government here in the USA. When actually there are four - the Executive Branch, the Representative Branch and the Judiciary Branch. But, what is the fourth Branch? The fourth branch is us - we the people! Lol. The US Citizen. And as US Citizens of the fourth branch we have our governmental responsibilities, too! And voting is only one of them. We cannot expect the other three branches of government to work unless we take better hold of our responsibilities as the most important branch - the Fourth Branch! Lol.
@David Well that's really who wins every election in Kentucky -- the plurality of eligible voters who don't vote. Just about every terrible decision made in Kentucky politics during my lifetime is a result of the majority of eligible voters here who don't bother to vote. Just look at recently-departed-from-Frankfort Matt Bevin! He won in 2015 with 16% of registered voters! It's a travesty.
3
As NBC News reported, deliveries increased this year, just as the American consumer increased spending––by 3.4% over the holidays, according to the NYTimes. This is having an unacknowledged impact on jobs, pollution and city planning. The factories are increasingly stacked to the gills; the pace is inhumane, worker safety is compromised and the pay isn't great. Also, delivery trucks are clogging the streets in cities and causing pollution. (Buildings are a huge source of carbon emissions and those factories are gigantic.) What kind of jobs are we producing? And are we promoting an instant gratification type of lifestyle?
13
If the jobs are terrible and demanding, workers can quit or their unions can call for a strike to bargain for better benefits and higher wages. But I’m sure that some people believe that they should be getting $40/hr plus great benefits for filling boxes and shipping them. Unlike those who were laid off when manufacturers left the US, Amazon’s workers can expect their jobs to continue. Two day shipping from China or even Mexico is not possible.
2
@Mark McDonald — In your attack on the workers you cleverly left out the compensation ratio of those at the top of Amazon and the workers. In the days when America was actually great for vast numbers management was not compensated at the obscene levels of today.
Inequity is the scourge of American capitalism. The few take all and the masses flomder—sort of feudal don't you think? The French Revolution had a cure for that problem.
9
@David: I did almost all my Christmas shopping online this year. If I had bought all those things in person I would have gone to 12 different stores and spent hours in traffic getting to them. Instead, a truck brings everything to my home or office - places I am going to be anyway. Take all the packages delivered from a single UPS truck in one day and that represents about 120 trips to a store an individual is not making.
3
I would like to understand the history of nytimes and subcontractors for their workers on the printing press and home delivery lines, their numbers and income levels. Do all sub contractors get paid a “living wage”.
Low skilled workers will be poorly paid. Period. Their jobs will be replaced with automation or provided by someone else in the supply chain over time. The government of KY is far more responsible for the 20 year fate of its workforce.
4
Isn’t the the really culprit of stagnate wages, particularly lower end wages, NAFTA and free trade in general?
If NAFTA (under Clinton) didn’t happen Fruit and many others would not have moved to Mexico and Amazon would need to compete for employees by paying higher wages.
Then again, the reason for NAFTA, and free trade in general, is to provide jobs for countries living in property.
Perhaps we went too far with free trade, which resulted in a new NAFTA agreement and import taxes on China. But then again we now compete in a global economy, perhaps we have to ride it out until all countries have the same wages.
No easy answer, and certainly there hasn’t been any good solutions coming out of the current presidential candidates. There needs to be systemic changes with short and long term plans for global trade, not just tax bandaids.
47
@Pam L.
"Then again, the reason for NAFTA, and free trade in general, is to provide jobs for countries living in property"
No it wasn't. FTA and NAFTA launched the largest and longest economic growth that America and Canada experienced to that point. That was the intention. Shareholders are to blame for offshoring and seeking the lowest wage areas for the greatest return.
90
@Canadian Roy Bravo! Finally, someone else sees the real culprit for offshoring jobs. The incentive for corporations is to maximize profits. The easiest way to do that is to pay lower wages. The easiest way to do that is to offshore the jobs. If it were not for the greed of Wall Street, America would still have manufacturing and many companies that built America, now gone dut to the financial mismanagement of their hedge fund buyers who only care about getting richer.
56
@Pam L. :I agree "a cent pourcent" about the lack of substance in the Democratic Party debates and the last thing of interest was said , I believe by EW when she alluded to the elitism of Buttigieg and his penchant for fine wines, the finest @900.00 per bottle served in wine caves.But that was the exception. There appears to be an consensus among all the candidates not to go after Joe Biden's "offshore corruption, " a term coined by Peter Schweitzer who has done extensive research on Biden's influence peddling on behalf of his son..Not one word. In the name of intellectual honesty, one is almost forced into the Trump camp. I disapprove of his sons' false heroics and cruelty towards innocent animals , evidenced by their fondness for "canned hunting" in east Africa, as well as his attacks on environmental laws protecting the "faune and the flore,"but Trump is right about the millions of birds killed by wind turbines per year. Rachel MADDOW is all out for the increased use of those turbines, said so on her t.v. show, despite the cruelty that one can almost feel towards birds caught in the blades!Bad judgement on Maddow's part!Gave her credit for more perspicacity. sensitivity towards our aviary population!
4
The solution isn't taxes so much but wages. This is what government policy needs to address. For instance, as companies grow to significant levels, so should the wage rate in the organization for every level of employee. Exploitation ensues without this kind of progressive rate increase in relation to the growth of a business. The health of society requires government to establish and require reasonable standards to how profits are shared in the form of wages. Putting more money in society's hands through wage increases makes better use of capitalism than taxes and government spending.
8
@Al
" For instance, as companies grow to significant levels, so should the wage rate in the organization for every level of employee. "
Why? Someone who fills boxes for a living at a small company is doing the same work as someone filling boxes for a giant corporation. Why should someone get paid more for doing the same work just because the employer is larger? That makes no sense.
2
@GMooG
A fair wage shouldn't be based purely on the type of work someone does, but also the success of the organization the employee is a part of and contributes to. Allowing small companies to pay box fillers a smaller wage gives small businesses a greater opportunity to exist competitively while preventing large companies from spreading low wage jobs across they land for their own profits like a caner. By considering the performance of a whole organization as it relates to wages is a necessary check to extreme concentrations of wealth. Money to society is like blood the to body; a healthy amount needs to flow freely throughout the whole system to stay strong.
1
@Al
" By considering the performance of a whole organization as it relates to wages is a necessary check to extreme concentrations of wealth."
Totally wrong. Even if you believe that "checking extreme concentration of wealth" is a good thing, redistribution is the job of the income tax system.
To enrich the lives of your employees, to build on communities in which they live, and bring hope for generations to follow.
Is that so much to ask these corporations to provide in exchange for the obscene profits they post?
We aren't biting the hand that feeds us; they are starving the hands that feed them.
15
@Erich Hayner Why should that be a company's responsibility (it may be a good idea overall, but it's not a responsibility)? A company is there to make profits. That's their job.
It's the government's responsibility to do those things - that's what taxes are for. That's why Republicans trying to drown govt in a bathtub results in disaster for communities because there isn't anyone there to look out for their collective future.
2
The problem is American consumers. We want the cheapest goods possible. Look at our socks and shoes and the labels on our clothes. Had we as Americans demanded that Fruit make in America, and paid up, they would have. My feet have made in Minnesota shoes on and they aren't cheap, but they are 8-9 years old and going strong. Tell that to the products coming out of an Amazon warehouse.
48
@sly creek That has nothing to do with giving 100's of millions or billions in tax breaks to companies to open shop in your state. There's no reason to give these huge tax breaks, overall it doesn't benefit the state. It's just a sham pushed by politicians taking credit for creating jobs and bigger profits for the corporation.
12
@David
"There's no reason to give these huge tax breaks, overall it doesn't benefit the state."
But they do benefit the state. Without these tax breaks, employers would go elsewhere, and these employees would have no jobs, thus increasing the burden on the local community & state for unemployment, food stamps, rental assistance, etc. It's math.
1
@GMooG
Not true. Read the statistics on Walmart workers who qualify for food stamps.
6
In my humble opinion, and living in a state where tax rebates are prevalent, it appears the tax base shifts dramatically to the very people that populate the area to make up the difference in taxes.
There are many tax avoidance issues granted by the local authorities, and many times, the authorities will state the employer needs to pay X amount of dollars on the average for the employment employees in wages and salaries. Some studies indicate those averages are skewed in the favor of management and the rank and file are still paid a wage that barely sustains them and their families.
And in the end, the rest of the community wrestles with making up the difference in taxes the authorities discounted for the jobs.
Basically, false promises, and a false economy.
9
It took almost a year for Amazon to cut a promised $10,000 check for the library. This from a company that has figured out how to charge your credit card in the blink of an eye and get your package to your door in less than a day.
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@Michael I do not understand why we will not see the flaws in this business's behavior, and just keep ordering from this greed-based company. Just like Donald Trump, Jeff Bezos cares only about himself! Certainly not the people of Campbellsville.
Rural economies around much of the country are struggling, and blaming Amazon is missing the point. Would Campbellsville be better off without having a local Amazon warehouse? The real problem is that many of the best jobs are moving to urban areas. You can’t really expect a warehouse that employs less than a thousand low-skilled employees to prop up the region’s economy.
5
@Rick You're right, a warehouse can't prop up the regions economy. So they shouldn't get any of these huge tax rebates or not pay taxes at all.
6
@David I couldn’t agree more. Giving tax breaks to companies is unfair and generally sleazy. It’s just like all the deductions and loopholes that make up our insanely complicated income tax system.
Whether we’re taxing companies or people, our goal should be to tax everyone the same way, to raise revenue to fund the government. We shouldn’t be trying to use taxes to influence behavior. As soon as you go down that rabbit hole, it gets very twisted very quickly.
1
Isn't there a call for an investigation into how Amazon runs its warehouses with its speed-up model from a century ago (I think it was called Taylorism)? I spoke with a former warehouse worker, who at the time of my call to Amazon was a customer relations person. She said that the reports coming out of Amazon warehouses are true... the speed-ups, the harassment of those who aren't fast enough for managers, the way some older and less able workers are driven from their jobs. This is not a pretty picture.
15
Amazon's market capitalization is about one trillion dollars of yes paper but also passive income. With their roughly, 500,000 rank and file workers I do believe that would be about $2,000,000 per capita employee. Yes $2,000,000 per employee. Greed came in fashion and acceptable to the public in the eighties and now many people with the lotto mentality believe one person controlling 100 billion dollars is great and most likely well deserved as if Bezos actually created something new. What a joke. Just like people falsely believe that Zuckerberg invented something new. What a joke they are playing on us.
9
@Big Tony - All Bezos did is put the Sears and Roebuck catalogue online. When I was a kid, my grandma would relish the day the new one showed up at her doorstep. She would peruse the pages, make an order, and wait for the item to show up on her doorstep. The catalogue offered her items that were nowhere to be found near her farm.
There are quite a few comments on this post bashing corporate America, and in particular Amazon. There is, of course, some truth that corporate America has morphed into a heartless monster.
However in this particular case Fruit folded and left 1,000 people without jobs and no tax revenue for the government. Amazon came in and hired 600+ of those workers when nobody else would.
I don't care how you describe this but at its core this is a story of good news for a lot of people in Campbellesville.
11
This is what happens when companies only care about upper management, and when the philosophy of companies is profits at all cost. Amazon's upper management takes care of itself and its stockholders - they are the pipers picking the tune.
Amazon presages a future of poor, homeless, and uneducated people. The difference is that there will be no impetus for the rich governing our nation to care about its citizens at all. The world economy means that companies can look for customers overseas, and the rich can simply move on. That wasn't true during previous depressions.
The great steel barons of Pittsburgh made out like, well, bandits. Frank Lloyd Wright's masterpiece was built on the backs of its worker at 25 cents an hour because it was during the Great Depression. (However, I remember being told 5 cents an hour at one of the tours I went on, and that they didn't like that being talked about)
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@ms
What you describe sounds nothing like Amazon. Absolutely. Nothing. Like. Amazon. It just goes to show that Amazon is the great corporate boogeyman of our era, let the facts be damned. Is Amazon perfect? No. Is global techno-capitalism perfect? Absolutely not. Amazon is simply the embodiment of that.
It is not Amazon that presages a future of poor, homeless, uneducated people. It is our society, our tribalism, our government, that will be responsible.
4
The top 1% has drained the US Treasury of needed funds to the detriment of the 99% through tax avoidance schemes legalized by an unjust tax code.
The 1% own the vast majority of stock in businesses, which when locating, then prey on local communities for local and state tax abatements, infrastructure improvements, and other concessions, paid for by local taxpayers. The Federal and State tax laws have been written in their favor by lawmakers whose own positions are largely reliant on their largess.
Fairly taxing the 1% has been miss-characterized as "class warfare" by Republicans in the pocket of their wealthy benefactors. Until the tax burden is fairly shared by all, we will lack the money needed to meet our needs. Europe, devastated by WWII now enjoys transportation and infrastructure superior to our own. We need the wealthy to fund the needed Marshall Plan for America.
"What's good for General Motors is good for the country." may have once been true... when companies employed for life, and taxation was more equitably shared by all. That was then, this is now.
31
The problem here is not Amazon. The problem is the government officials who granted crony capitalist tax breaks to induce the company to locate there.
389
Ken M, surely you think Amazon has a moral obligation to support the communities it depends on for labor and infrastructure?
27
@AlexM I wish I could say there were any "morals" ANYWHERE at Amazon.
14
@Ken M. Well said, and not sufficiently explored in this article.
10
The stock casino and fixed incomes are two different things: one is for the rich, the other is for the rest. Bezos serves stocks for the rich and harried wage slavery for the rest.
Expecting paychecks to rise because stocks go up is like saying turtles will sprint at 70 mph because they saw cheetahs—and insisting the economy's better because stocks transiently go up while worker rights and benefits get maimed is covfefean.
373
@SR "Covfefean". :)
21
@SR No connection to the stock market, but a report was just released today showing that income of lower wage workers (non-supervisory) rose in November at the fastest rate in about 10 years. This is the effect of labor shortages.
3
@SR
Years ago I got in the habit of switching the station whenever the stock market report came on the radio. The stock market that celebrates massive layoffs and funnels more riches to the rich has nothing to do with my life, except if a culture capitalist decides my industry is the next one to strip for parts.
I guess this is the inevitable endpoint of capitalism that is not free market but rather arranged with giant pots of cash for some and deprivation for others. Even the farmers are seeing the divide, where family farmers get $4,000 a year to offset trump's idiot tariffs, while the large corporate farms rake in the free money.
8
Amazon, for all the consumer benefits it offers, is just another huge, predatory company. One that requires and takes tax breaks, one that runs other companies out of business, one that puts downward pressure on workers' wages. They are simply a glitzier and more modern WalMart, with all the baggage that implies.I will us Amazon to research prices but I will not buy from them, and I discourage others from doing so. But at a certain income level – that of people who never have to worry about working for wages at Amazon – Amazon has become a necessity. It's just another example of affluence buying cheap household help.
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@larry bennett
Amazon is just another large corporation participating in a global marketplace. To call it predatory is to call all such companies predatory. For all that has been written about Amazon, it seems largely forgotten that Amazon grew to what it is today by reinventing the shopping experience, along with being a highly customer focused company. I love shopping at Amazon because they sell everything, I’m nearly always guaranteed the lowest prices, and I get amazing customer service on the back-end. They handle returns, missing items, damaged goods, and have amazing shipping and delivery so I get what I ordered so fast I often don’t need to go out to the store. It’s simply the most convenient and reliable shopping option out there.
6
@Andrew Nelly
If you think you are getting the lowest prices on Amazon, you are simply not paying attention. It has been years since Amazon competed on price. And, at one time and perhaps still, Amazon inflated so-called list prices in order to display a nonexistent discounted price.
7
@mls Amazon uses dynamic pricing. How fast the product is selling and your aggragated demographics. Where you live, what computer you are using.
My brother in FL was online looking at something his gf was in northern California. Her price was quite a bit higher. Because she was on a Mac? That's our theory.
Always the lowest? Of course not. Almost always, yes. Contrary to what you think. I don't shop Amazon for price, I know that will always be good. I find things I can't get locally. Never could, never will.
They invented the better (retail) mousetrap. Kudos.
3
The amount of cognitive dissonance going on in the minds of the workers (the two mentioned in the middle of the article) who have seen how Amazon manages their warehouses and still have Prime memberships just blows my mind. How can they watch people pass out on their line and still demand that 2 day shipping? Yeah it's convenient, but at what cost to your fellow townspeople?
Stop buying from this company. I am a 22 year old female in the middle of nowhere, I'm sure one of their target demographics, and I still do not buy from Amazon. It's not hard. Support your local economy or literally any other business at this point.
48
Keep voting for Mitch, Rand and the GOP. They'll nickel and dime you to death with all the tax breaks they give billionaire businesses.
17
Kentucky sales tax is 6% and U.S. sales tax is not much higher. Talk about shooting oneself in the municipal foot! Sales tax should be 20% minimum clear accross America! From sea to shining sea!
Europe calls their sales tax “value added“ which i thought was a completely stupid term for many years! It’s just a tax! I thought. But how does one pay for roads and bridges, police and fire protection, schools and colleges without tax money? You don’t!
Funny enough, those things bring lots of value! So them slightly more socially leaning “Europa People” ain’t as dumb as we make them out to be!
4
Consumption taxes like you suggest disproportionately impact low income citizens. It’s the opposite of what we should be doing to increase tax revenue without hitting the pocketbooks of the middle class and working poor.
8
@Melba Toast simple. Let’s just go to the monopoly game approach and call it a luxury tax. No or low taxes on the all the stuff that the little people need and want. High taxes on the fur coats and $100,000 cars. Problem solved.
5
@Melba Toast
Contrary to what progressives think, taxes in say Sweden or Denmark are quite flat. That's how they pay for such generous social welfare programs.
Liberal Americans love ideas like Medicare for all as long as they themselves pay nothing for it. It's opm-other people's money that has to pay for it.
If everyone with an income of 60 k paid 50% in taxes and every household income over 80k or so paid 60%, plus a 20% vat, plus a substantial gas tax, we'd be just like Denmark.
Sounds like Amazon is saving this town.
4
@sf I guess it depends on how you define "saving."
1
One word: unions
40
Taxes are the cost of civilization.....and corporate America refuses to pay them....or pays them them at highly discounted rates.
Until Americans stop voting for Randian Reverse Robin Hoods who treat corporations as religious dieties exempt from social responsibility, this nation and its states and towns will continue to bankrupt itself for corporate and 0.1% welfare queens.
This country needs a corporate income tax raise and alternative minimum tax reform to ensure that America's corporate tax deadbeats contribute to society.
D to go forward; R for Reverse Robin Hoods.
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@Socrates Jeff Bezos of Amazon owns the Washington Post - the biggest D supporter ever (maybe second to the NYT). Most of the 0.1% are D's too. The D's play a little game of moral superiority by falling over illegal immigrants, LGBTQ+ people, refugees, etc. but totally neglect ordinary working class US citizens, their towns, and schools.
I do agree that Amazon should be properly taxed and legal immigration should be limited so that the tech companies are forced to train Americans rather than importing cheap skilled labor.
It is as big a D problem as an R problem!
5
@IndependentVoter
The Grand One Percent Party has been leading America over a tax-cut cliff for 39 years.
Clinton and Obama raised taxes.
Dubya, Trump and the GOP lowered taxes.
False equivalence is something you should be ashamed of, not embracing.
The Republican party is a billionaire's best friend by far; no contest.
“many or most billionaires appear to favor, and quietly work for, policies that are opposed by large majorities of Americans” — cutting Social Security, reducing taxes on the rich, and freezing or even scrapping the minimum wage.
https://jacobinmag.com/2019/07/billionaires-and-stealth-politics
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@IndependentVoter
Then the Democrats insult their religion, try to take away the firearms that are a huge cultural symbol in these communities and then wonder why they can't get any votes.
In the communities where it opens warehouses and distribution centers, Amazon does not make good jobs. It makes subsistence jobs that let worker bees live paycheck to paycheck with the minimum number of benefits so they don’t die or become a drag on productivity. Amazon is truly the most rapacious corporation in the history of the world and we are all too happy to let it consume our economy.
17
@CP
Which still is better than no jobs. It wasn't Amazon who put Fruits out of business. They moved to a country where they could pay their employees a lot less (and lot less of what Amazon pays, I assure you) for the same or more work. But Amazon is the bad guy.
2
If Amazon is smart they will use their influence wisely, and to the benefit of the communities where they are located. Little evidence of that so far. Pity.
They should well remember that their shareholders are consist of more than just those who own their stock. It is the communities where they are located and their customers.
I for one am done with the greedy. NO more amazon and minimal purchses online. I buy local, buy from companies that support their communities, pay living wages or in the case of imported products, support fair trade practices. Or I do without, preferring to use my influence and my dollars to the benefit of others.
9
@elise - "I buy local..."
If I shop Amazon, I AM buying local:)))
I know that you don't only buy local or you would not be able to post your comment using your computer's software which was not made in your community. Or your car. Or the oil that goes into it. Or your avocados or...
If I buy an item at Home Depot or Lowes, that is not shopping local anymore than someone in tiny-town shopping at Amazon.
If my grandma had spent her life "buying local", she would have had nothing but corn and soybeans (which grandpa grew). Fortunately for grandma, Amazon existed back in her day. It was called the Sears and Roebuck catalogue. Everything in her home came from ordering from that catalogue and waiting for it to show up on her doorstep. The closest town to grandma had a convenience store that sold beer and cigarettes. After that, the next tiny town had a high-school and a grocery. After that, you hit the county seat of 6,000 people that had nothing to offer but a car museum remembering the glory days of the 20's and 30's when the little town built the Duesenberg.
Boycott Amazon! Boycott Walmart! They're killing our communities.
13
@ActOnClimateCrisisNow
Yes, of course. Putting these employees out of work via a boycott will do much more good for these people than having jobs.
1
The free trade agreement killed communities like this
2
@Ewen
Yes but mega corporations like these aren't helping matters. Indeed the opposite.
Reading the NYT is one continuing saga about how the wordl is a tragedt. Is there a private employer that the NYT admires? If yes, then let's feature that employer. If not then that tells us that the NYT does not beleive in America.
2
@Steve:
"That tells us that the NYT does not believe in America."
What??
Your comment makes no sense.
This was an excellent explanatory article. Evidently you didn't understand it.
2
@Steve You've just read about Amazon's impact on a small town and you're seeking a cheerleader? It's not the role of journalism to be cheerleaders for anything. There are plenty of PR firms who will fill your inbox with the do goody stuff they claim to do.
2
Median income in Taylor County is higher than that national median income. So what is the problem? There's a lot people can do to make a dollar stretch -- just look at the parking lot photo for a clue. Lots of newer cars, lots of inefficient pickup trucks. Every one of those pickup truck owners could save thousands of dollars had they purchased an economy car instead.
I'm not sure how accurate the site globalrichlist.com is, but it states that someone earning $20,000 annually is in the top 3.65 percent richest people on the planet.
A lot of people don't realize how rich they really are. They only know that they want more. More more more, forever more.
1
@Chris You're OK with the 5% tax and few benefits AMZ brings to the town? As for the median income, the article did report a college and hospital. Lots of employees in those two locations to be on the top end of the median.
4
@bresson I don't know the details of that tax. That tax has since expired anyways.
I had the same thought when surveying the warehouse parking lot, but the salary rankings you cite are specious because a "global" sweep includes the earnings of workers the world over, most of whom earn $2 a day. A salary of 20k is poverty in the US. As has been reported here and elsewhere, Amazon pickers often qualify for public assistance because they don't earn enough from their wages to make ends meet. One would have thought we'd have learned valuable lessons from Walmart's decimation of our local economies.
5
Wages as a share of GDP are at their lowest levels since 1929. Corporate tax levies are at their lowest in decades as well. Trump's tax cut increased Tim Cook's personal wealth by tens of millions of dollars. Don't forget the doubling in the exemption for the estate tax.
We are back to the Lochner era of pay to work, paying the boss for the right to work, like a cabbie forking over $25 to the dispatcher so as to receive car keys on a busy weekend night in the big city. Jeff Bezos is a financial terrorist, contributing not one dime of federal income tax to the beautiful country in which he became the wealthiest man on the planet.
10
Elections matter. Public policy matters.
Obama signed the affordable care act. Andy Beshear’s dad, the former governor of Kentucky, accepted the Medicaid expansion that came with the act.
As a result thousands of Kentuckians were covered by health insurance for the first time. Thousands more found new employment in healthcare.
By comparison the recently defeated Republican governor as a parting act pardoned hundreds of murderers and child rapists.
Elections matter.
46
@Larry Dickman
Elections matter when the candidates support contrasting policies. Both Democrats and Republicans supported NAFTA and normal trade with China both of which have been detrimental to the manufacturing base of this country.
1
Can we please stop mainstreaming corporate-framed phrases like “fulfillment center”? As plenty of recent reporting has shown, nobody in those places is fulfilled, only orders are.
Please call them what they are: warehouses and distribution centers. Alternatively, you could swing in the other direction (my preference) and call them sweatshops.
11
@Kimron C. Thomas While we're at it, Russia didn't "annex" Crimea, either.
@Kimron C. Thomas
"Processing Plants,"
@Big Tony
That's what you call a big place where fresh apples go in one end and jars of applesauce come out the other.
Of COURSE amazon pays no tax to the town.
People, it’s simple. Stop buying from amazon.
4
@S - Amazon pays no taxes to the town because that is what the town agreed to. The voters elected the government that made the deal. If the voters want Amazon to pay taxes, they need to elect new leadership.
The Seattle City Council passed a law sometime back raising minimum wage to $15 an hour which is twice the federal law across the country.
1
The article is timely. This community's future is broken and powerless. Amazon wins, they lose. It is America of the future and has become worse, more quickly, in red states. The poorest states have been "primed" to be grateful for their low wage jobs so they can live in "their" community. Walmart was king, and now Amazon rules. The governance and politics of Kentucky are manipulative and sadistic. Campbellsville residents are being boiled alive and, like the proverbial frog, will know, too late.
7
@purpledot I'm guessing the warehouse's days are #d. I bet bezos will close it & move it bf many more years pass. Even it doesn't happen soon, it seems like the type of operation that can be moved easily. Seems obvious that azn not investing in the community proves there's no intention of being a permanent part of it. They act more like a parasite than a company that communities are built on. But what do I know. I need more discipline to work on treating my dependence on this company.
1
The data in the chart at top of article does not reflect the statements made by the reporter; in fact it contracts it in the last five years. Neither does quoting left wing interest groups as sources of supposedly objective sources of facts. Amazon is certainly not a good citizen in too many cases, but bad reporting such as this article does not provide effective rebuttal.
2
Amazon is a last resort for me. I make it a point to spend my money in local small businesses whenever possible. Maybe think before reflexively ordering everything on Amazon which also means ordering the garbage that is needed to bring it to your door (packaging, fuel) Leave a good review for a restaurant or store you would like to see survive instead of just those scathing reviews for those that offended you for whatever slight. It’s already hard to be in business use your $$ and your time to support businesses that would otherwise be empty storefronts.
10
And here we find reason number 1,481,987 not to shop at Amazon.
7
Campbellsville is reaping the rewards of their Red State Republican policies-- huge tax cuts for the rich and corporations and crumbs for workers. It is pathetic to watch these towns and their people grovel to companies like Amazon and still only get chump change in terms of investment in education and the local economy. I am sure the majority of these townspeople are Trump supporters who respond "..but the economy is doing well under him". The economy is doing well for the rich but most people are struggling to make it like the people of Campbellsville. Most of them deserve it for voting for these lying Republican crooks who treat them with contempt. If the people of Kentucky want their lives to improve, they will need to vote their Republican Senators out of office.
10
Is any mystery why small town America loves Trump’s protectionism? (and let’s be honest, Bernie’s too!) Free trade took away a homegrown business that made a town. On the bright side, Tighty Whities are a lot cheaper now, and in Cambellsville I bet same day delivery is pretty much guaranteed with a prime account!
2
Are we better off with twice the stuff at half the cost with half the jobs at half the pay? That seems to be the existential question for small town America.
35
@Perfect Commenter
Its the existential question for all of America, not just small town America.
4
While I was reading this article, I couldn’t help but think that Amazon is now behaving at the national level like Western countries behave towards third world countries. They give low-paying jobs to local workers, but don’t care much about the places where they do business and can always go elsewhere when they feel like it. Instead of one country exploiting another, it’s now one town (Seattle) getting rich at the expense of another town. And it’s the same all over the world with companies like Uber, Airbnb, etc.
41
Schools are having to sell naming rights now to cover budget shortfalls and Amazon hasn't bought naming rights yet? Schools used to be named after people we wanted our children to emulate. Heroes, and presidents, and writers, and educators. Do we really want kids to go to Amazon Elementary School? Is that who we want children to emulate today?
Move over Lincoln. We want our school to be named Bezos.
19
@Linda any takers for Trump High School?
2
@Linda - Our state legalized cannabis and use the profits to fund schools. I have yet to see a building, school, or park in Seattle with Bezos' name on it. If you head over to the University of Washington, you will see a building or two with Bill and Melinda Gates' name on it but they just gave the university another $278 million check so small price to pay:)
Kentucky has been welcoming to small and large businesses and yes they are generous often too generous to set up businesses in Kentucky. When you are competing with 49 other states you better be competitive if you want to attract businesses.
Maybe some times Kentucky goes over board. It had a program of matching funds provided by the cabinet for economic development for outside Kentucky innovative small businesses to move their business head quarters to Kentucky if they moved their federal small business innovation research grant to Kentucky and some times the small business take advantage of the Kentucky state tax dollars futz around for a few years in Kentucky and then leave Kentucky. Similar things happened with the bucks for brains programs that invested in out of state Professors to take positions in KY state universities. After a few years of burning their Kentucky bucks and advancing their research, some of the recipients would then leave with their brains. So yes small businesses and large ones should appreciate the contribution of Kentucky tax payers by contributing to the dreams of a better life for Kentuckians especially those living in the poorer areas of Kentucky.
4
@Girish Kotwal
"Maybe some times Kentucky goes over board"
See also: Investing $15 million in Braidy Industries.
See also: Oleg Deripaska
@Joel from Louisville. Is there something you want to enlighten me about Braidy industries and the Russian oligarch Oleg Deripaska? I see that they received tax incentives from Kentucky of 10 million dollars.
1
Amazon has 49.1% of home delivery sales in 2018, and growing. At what point does it become a monopoly? And why not institute a national minimum wage at $15 per hour? Amazon can certainly afford it.
17
@John Barry
FYI, Amazon announced in 2018 that it was raising the minimum wage for all of its U.S. employees to $15 an hour.
I guess they could afford it.
2
@John Barry
Amazon has 7% of total merchant sales during the same time fram John..... so waaaaaaay distant from any sort of monoploy.
Walmart, the biggest retailer in the world, is much more a monopoly than Amazon.... by miles in fact. Not to mention Walmart was allowed to completely destroy entire small town community businesses through predatory deployment of Walmarts... and then later shuttering them after they wiped out local business and forcing community members to drive 30-50 miles to the local Walmart super store.
3
@Chuck
Some of us have as much respect for the Walton family as we do for Bezos, which is zero, and patronize their businesses as much, which is zero.
1
It's all a misunderstanding. The system is working exactly as designed. The job creators determine what type of jobs they need to create, if any. And then they determine where to create them. This naturally gravitates to low-wage, right to work, tax-subsidized places that welcome any type of economic growth. And the workers decide if they want those jobs or not. It's called "capitalism" not "humanism", the latter of which is something different altogether.
6
So many competing ideas here, but the biggest is capitalism, with or without guardrails.
Where is the bell curve? On the upslope, innovation, growth, adding employees, building value, customer convenience, creativity.
Then the peak.
On the downslope, so to speak, beyond peak and to grow/maintain power, there is extreme greed, concentration of wealth/political power resulting in anti-competitive behavior, monopoly, exploitation of partners/employees, unfair/unsafe lab or practices, extraction of value from communities (think locusts).
When a company starts down the slope, ethically, there needs to be regulation as laws are being broken and morals abandoned.
5
Well written article, good analysis of the deleterious effects that follow after inviting Amazon into your locality. Does the good outweigh the bad?What does Jeff Bezos do with all those billions he has earned,and perhaps, just perhaps, AOC was prescient, right in saying negative to the installation of an Amazon outlet in her c.d.I hate to see the death of small time commercial enterprises all over the US as large corporations enter a community and make it impossible for many small merchants to earn a living but that is what is apparently happening, and the changes are happening all over the Western world!
4
If they think it's ok now, just wait until more automation rolls in. In exchange for efficiency and, thankfully, fewer accidents on the warehouse floors, there will be fewer people needed to handle all those orders. And because of the ever shorter fulfillment time (I suppose in order to combat the last advantage of the brick-and-mortar store), the stress on speedy performance will improve.
But even before Amazon, it's the danger of the one-company town, in a world where more and more goods are not locally produced or, these days, sold.
6
Fascinating examination of the deterioration in corporate civic engagement.
One problem is that state governors are forced to compete with each other for economic development in a disastrous race to the bottom. The solution would be a cooperative agreement that prevents corporations from taking advantage.
Another issue is NAFTA. Mexican auto production has boomed compared to the stagnant US. Those were all good-paying jobs.
11
@NYC -> Boston
NAFTA made Mexico's auto industry and it has wedded the US to Mexico and Mexico's internal problems. As the NYT coverage of the El Chapo trial showed, Mexico's drug cartels ship much of their product to the US through modifications of trucks and rail cars carrying such items as auto parts and Mexican cooking sauces. Corporations refuse to commercial traffic stops at the border to search vehicles for drugs. The drugs end up in small industrial cities in Ohio killing young men whose fathers worked in the auto plants that were shipped to Mexico after NAFTA passed. Now a leading Democratic presidential candidate, Mayor Pete of Indiana, is asked whether the US should send its military to Mexico to clean up the drug cartels. This is not what Democrats and Republicans promised this country when NAFTA passed.
1
There are two separate realities here, life before Fruit closed and life with Amazon. Fruit was a manufacturer, whereas Amazon is a strictly service based facility - they don't make anything. Yes, there are benefits to the area with Amazon's employment base, but what that area really needs is higher paying manufacturing jobs. Sadly it is my belief that if/when these jobs do come back to the U.S. that robots will be competing directly with their human counterparts, and often winning.
8
I am in Seattle, and you are correct, employees for Amazon in Seattle are getting rich from their pay and their stock options.
The average non-tech person is having a difficult time paying for rent. It is almost impossible to buy a house in Seattle.
There are so many millionaire because of the stock, that young folks can buy houses for a million dollars.
Seattle has other tech companies that are also doing quite well.
The medium price for a house is $729,000. Not exactly affordable for non tech jobs.
20
@Kathy - "The average non-tech person is having a difficult time paying for rent."
I completely disagree with that. My building is full of immigrants, half of whom don't even speak a word of English and not only do they have no problem with rent, they all own huge new SUVs or trucks. I see the one family just bought a brand new monster truck. Dad works construction. His English is so bad that I need his daughter to translate for us but they are doing quite well:) Another immigrant family spent Christmas at Disneyland. The immigrant family that manages the building? They went to New Zealand for xmas this year. Last year it was London for the holidays.
Two of the 20-somethings in the building got a job at the new Chick-Fillet. The one was offered $17 per hour even though she had been fired from her last job in fast food. The other got hired as a lead making $19.50 per hour.
Two coffee baristas could get an apartment together. At $15 per hour, they would pull in over $5,000 per month before taxes and would have no problem finding an apartment.
Yes, the median price of homes is high but how much of that is because of all of those mega-mansions on Lake Washington or Queen Anne? The richest people on earth live in our county. Yeah, homes are expensive. Blame it on Microsoft which started it all.
1
Back in the 80’s, I worked for the telecommunications company providing services to Sears nationally. The reputation they had within our ranks was that Sears would contract a supplier for exclusive manufacturing sourcing. The manufacturer would expand production, accumulating debt in the process, then Sears would cut the price they would give the manufacturer. Financial leverage can be a prison.
My father had a long history in management with Montgomery Wards, including time at their Chicago HQ, from before WWII until he retired. In the end, both Sears and Wards suffered the same fate, failure at the hands of two Brennan brothers who got very wealthy in the process. Amazon will likely enjoy the same fate. Behind most extremely wealthy families there is a similar story.
4
It is ironic and tragic that "right to work" states that "protect" workers from paying union dues (because why should someone be required to pay to support their union) have no problem requiring workers to pay part of their wages to the company they work for.
301
@Mark Kuperberg Kentucky only recently became a right to work state (2017), long after that "deal" was made. Just another nail on the proverbial coffin for labor there.
13
@Mark Kuperberg
One hint of a union and Amazon would be out of there like a flash. Union-friendly laws do not prevent business relocations which warehouse operations can do very easily, nor do they prevent well-heeled employers from mounting legal but scorched earth anti-union campaigns. Blaming this situation on right-to-work laws alone shows an incredibly superficial understanding of what is a very complex problem that has been allowed to fester in areas of the country that are both pro and anti-union historically.
5
We are drowning in convenience.
Amazon clearly has too much power, but it is power that we ourselves give them by making them our default place to order from.
I can order nearly anything I can think of while sitting in my underwear if I choose. That is a miracle of the modern age, but one that would scarcely change if Amazon were to disappear tomorrow.
Many of the alternative sellers are the ones Amazon itself uses to ship you the product. But for the tiniest extra bit of perceived convenience, we endow one company with the power to dictate terms to companies, towns, cities and states.
Start with baby steps. Look a little further down the Search Result list. Or - even easier - if you find an item on Amazon, see who the third party seller is. Buy directly from them.
Your "convenience" - if it is affected at all - will change negligibly. But you will be spreading out your buying power a little, paying the people who actually do the stocking, shipping and possibly even the "making", without carving off Amazon's cut.
36
So many people saying how proud they are of having Amazon in their town - a company that invests next to nothing in the community. Giving $2,500 here, even $100K, is like a slap in the face, especially when the people being hurt admit to being solid Amazon customers.
Both of the other major employers in the community contribute greatly to worthwhile projects such as education as mentioned, while Amazon does "zero"...absolutely nothing; and then refuses to provide even a hint of an explanation of where its minuscule contributions go, which sounds like a coverup. You can't trace it, you can't prove they didn't actually give the contribution. A sad, sad management philosophy. One can bet WaPo won't be reporting on this story.
30
Did we all read the same article? I read an article that says a startup company located to a town where 28% of the people were out of work, hired them, and the town 's median income has grown faster than the national median income.
23
@WER The article also mentioned free college training that Amazon offers, and didn't mention that all those full time employee get paid medical and vacation as well as a stellar insurance package. But those points don't fit the narrative.
14
@WER It's also a company where people were passing out in the warehouse from lack of air-conditioning. They'd better provide health insurance and vacations, which should be a given in the first place for employees.
19
@WER The article has nothing to do with the facts like those you saw in it. The whole purpose of this article is to convince the NYT's hometown readers that it sure was a good thing that the city and state told Amazon to take a hike
3
A fascinating account of modern economics with some traditional biases thrown in. Has the population "stalled," or has the county retained the qualities of life that are lost to high density population growth? Were Fruit of the Loom employees paid more because they had higher levels of training and skills, and because higher pay was needed to reduce turnover and the expense of training new workers? If low skilled jobs are paying less, but the county is keeping up with inflation, doesn't that mean that higher-skilled workers are making more to offset the difference? Do employee taxes diverted to employers coffers resemble similar diversions for employer-provided health care?
At the same time, corporate "citizenship" and responsible behavior should be demanded. Since corporations enjoy many of the rights of living and breathing citizens, courtesy of conservative "judicial activism," they need to behave with the sort of conscience possessed by a real human being. It's only fair.
8
75% of Taylor county voted for Trump and the Republican ticket. They can't vote for policies of human neglect and corporate enrichment then turn around and complain about it. They made their bed, so sleep in it.
152
Yes, but Clinton gave us NAFTA. Neo-liberal Democrats are just as unwilling to challenge corporate power. It is a bi-partisan sham(e).
7
@Alma
Clinton only signed it. It was negotiated and written under Bush. Look it up and turn off faux noise.
7
Clinton "only signed it"? That's pretty much all that matters, isn't it? he had the ability to veto it, and he chose not to. That's what matters.
3
The chart presented in this article runs counter to the articles narrative.
The recovering of median income has been steep and positive since Amazon moved in.. essentially a slope line that mimics Amazons share price.
If you are insistent on prsecuting Amazon in the press NYT.. at least make sure data you rely on matches your narrative.... OR... better yet.. vice versa.
15
@Chuck There is a Big difference between a 9% increase over 20 years and a 11,500% increase over 20 years. The problem isn't the NYTimes; the problem is your ability to read graphs.
6
@Mark Kuperberg
Growth in a stock price of a new entrant during their path to market winner in a booming category during a booming stock market is very different than growth in median income in vulnerable county during a stretch that involves one a severe recession and significant global shifts. We really should not expect those percentage changes to be close, and should anticipate median income to be a fraction of the stock price change. The question is whether any of the growth in firm value gets passed through to employees. We can't say that it does, but the graph the NY times presented would move my priors in the direction that it does---especially considering the odds against areas like Taylor County during this same period.
It's also worth noting there's a bit of visual malpractice here. The NYT appears to be using somewhere around 1998 to calculate percentage change of AMZN, but is using 2000 values for median income changes. If you use the January 2000 AMZN price, the percentage change is more on the order of 2,151%. Still massive, but a significant difference from 11,500.
@Mark Kuperberg Love Swats! Had you for EC 1 Fall '78.
Don't worry, Mitch just got you a billion in welfare checks, you're covered.
15
This was almost the fate of Long Island City, Queens. Same old tax break swindle. Campbellsville’s mayor perhaps not quite the ninny our Mayor and Governor are.
3
@Edwin
Sounds like you didn't understand the Amazon NY deal any better than AOC. People get what they vote for.
It’s what happens when you dance with the devil.
5
Pretty soon most of these kinds of places will have Amazon on-line and a Dollar General. Yippee. Local stores and store owners invest in their communities. Corporate chains whose business plan is to drive every other competitor out of business in general do not -or as noted in the article only do it for self serving purposes. Owners of small businesses were active in the local Chamber of Commerce, took part in service groups like Kiwanis or Lions Club, they initiated and supported charitable organizations. Now, towns dominated by Amazons and Dollar Generals have lost that, and the communities have lost something more than better paying jobs. They have really lost the sense of community that made them what they were.
25
We all know that we are living in the age of the Internet. This firm has utilized it to improve market efficiencies just as when horse-drawn milk wagons transitioned to trucks. Laborers with picks and shovels were replaced by backhoes. Now the evolution is occurring faster propelled by geniuses: Bezos, Jobs, Zuckerberg who know how to utilize and capitalize on it. The Oregon trail has been replaced by fiber-optic cables transmitting at 10 gigabits per second. Sales orders travel between vendors at near the speed of light. Disruption of human activity is an expected consequence of this evolution - occurring faster than humanity has ever experienced.
5
When reading this I was reminded of NYC's collective ire at a deal for Amazon coming to New York - they can come here like everyone else - and rolled my eyes at the comment that the “needle has not moved in the last two decades on the quality of life in Kentucky". Although Amazon hasn't helped, would we expect anything different in a state that votes almost entirely for Republicans in the Senate and the House?
Our government has been captured by the wealthy and corporations, as they destroy our welfare, our environment, and our politics. Democrats have some of the same biases, but obviously liberal pols generally work to improve human welfare or at least balance it with other concerns.
It is obvious the choices Kentucky makes politically only makes its suffering worse and the likelihood of reform less likely while increasing the probability that they will continue to make counterproductive choices.
28
The difference between Fruit and Amazon, Fruit located there not due to tax breaks but good business plans. Changing commerce has always challenged businesses to adapt, look at Sears or Radio Shack.
My town had local businesses like hardware and drug stores all within walking distance. now located in the mall. The local big box store, chain grocery with an increasing number of self-service checkouts, the restaurants offering delivery services and the future is predictable.
Most low tech manufacturing jobs and even high tech mechanical assembly are done by machine/IA and continue to replace workers. Gone are the days of the uniformed attendant rushing out to wipe your windows or the rollerskating waitperson with your burger and fries, drive-in movies and you see the pattern.
I watched with some amusement as local officials in Boston tried to bribe Amazon to locate a campus here. The voters did not support the tax incentives due in part to the strong economy here in Massachuttes.
I traveled across the country for over 35 years on business and have seen the ghost towns and shuttered malls. The economic reality is the Republicans have not helped the common man, and even hard-working, well-educated workers have paid the price for the tax ripoffs that have taken place. Hard choices are made every day at the checkout online or in person. Support local businesses, and they will support the communities. Amazon has enough money already; they should be paying a living wage....
68
@David
Marty Walsh had no desire to pay Amazon a nickel to come here. He had the good sense to realize that Bezos should be paying us--we have what he needs, massive amounts of tech talent. Perhaps some of our local buffoons thought we should give Bezos anything he wanted, but not everyone was of that mindset.
21
@David
Check the record of the Democrats on trade agreements and tax incentives for businesses and get back to us.
1
Not to nit-pic, but New Jersey and Oregon* require full-service attendants. *Yes, as of 2018 sparsely populated Oregon counties (under 40,000) are now exempt. What I can’t understand how companies like Amazon (and Apple, ad nauseas) get to use our public roads and electronic infrastructure for free. Then again, this town - and state - votes blue and is a federal tax benefactor while my state Californa is a federal tax “donator” to states like Kentucky.
1
I did some research: Forbes, CNBC, WJS, Fortune, others.......
1. They give nearly all employees stock that increases in value. That’s deductible. Employees win because they have more potential retirement savings, if they keep it.
2. They earn a tax credit for reinvesting a lot in R&D, a bipartisan idea. Makes a stronger company. (Remember when the big 3 auto companies had to ask for bailouts because hey became uncompetitive?)
3. They deduct for spending in equipment, again largely bipartisan.
Now, what Amazon doesn’t do is
1. Report profits from foreign subsidiaries located is low tax countries.
2. Stock buybacks.
3. Shelter profits overseas.
Look, I’m fairly Liberal. I don’t like Trump. But let’s not cast successful companies as evil (Sanders and Warren).
And they follow the tax code. They are audited. I have money invested with them, as do their employees. I don’t want them to pay a penny more in taxes than they have to.
How many out there say to themselves, “I’m going to send that refund check due me back to the IRS?”
8
Um, Amazon didnt pay one cent in federal taxes in 2019.
Unsustainable, dumb, wrong.
6
@Dan Rewarding hourly employees with stock ended in 2018. The company told these workers they could no longer do it as their hourly wage had increased to $15.
6
@TIM
because it didn't earn any profit in 2019; that's how taxes work.
1
“If they can figure out a way to cut me out and take my business, they’ll totally do it,” he said. “They would destroy me, absolutely. But I am a 100 percent supporter of Amazon. I have five kids. We get stuff from Amazon almost every day.”
He paused, acknowledging his own contradictions. “That’s why they’re winning,” he said.
Though apparently Trump and Bezos have no love for one another, they share a philosophy of taking and taking and giving little or nothing in return. The tyranny of Amazon and the tyranny of Trump arise out of the same impulse.
50
Anyone who orders a case of toilet paper for same or next day delivery is contributing to this horror.
121
@Mary A I made a decision years ago to research companies that I buy from. I do not buy from WalMart and the most recent addition to my DNB list is Amazon.
When will folks use their brains, read a little and do some critical decision making? Yes, I know, when pigs fly.
12
I’ve seen cases of bottled water with a delivery sticker I affixed to it sitting in my apartment lobby. Not sure if it was an Amazon purchase or not. It baffles me that someone would mail-order bottled water. (Not to mention that bottled water is evil regardless of where it’s purchased from.)
10
@Chris - Yup. That's a great example of a 'double evil' purchase.
2
Good article, especially if you're interested in understanding why so many people voted for Trump in 2016.
17
Good ‘ole NAFTA, corporate tax incentives, broken federal government, wage stagnation for workers. Amazon isn’t the sole issue here. What a mess is the U.S.
25
You left out China’s entry into the WTO (2001)
1
I was a Prime member for many years (they gave it to me free initially in graduate school). I didn't buy a lot from Amazon overall, but after their attempt to exploit New York (to have us New Yorkers pay for their company's expenses) and their treatment of their own employees that I read about, I canceled my Prime membership and have not bought anything from them since. You know what? I don't miss that bullying behemoth of a company at all. Now, if only I could rid them of using New York sidewalks as their private staging areas with paying any of us anything for this. This company and Mr. Bezos are parasites in my opinion.
137
@Thomas When the full story comes out (if ever) it will be shown that NY's Amazon deal was negotiated between billionaires Bloomberg and Bezos long before the purported "search" for an east coast HQ was ever announced. During this period, Cuomo and de Blasio were sitting at the kiddies table waiting for instructions.
Since everything in NYC boils down to real estate, Bloomberg had rezoned the entire stretch of East River waterfront up to Astoria. Long Island City was turned into a glimmering landing pad for the Amazon mothership by his cronies, Not coincidentally, just a stone's throw from LIC is Bloomberg's tech campus on Roosevelt Island. Finally, this also helps explain de Blasio's seeming harebrained proposal for a streetcar line along the waterfront into LIC. It has languished because nobody could see a justification for it, but had Amazon moved to Queens, it would have been tailor made to transport their workers to their glass palaces in Brooklyn,
2
@Thomas Totally agree! It's immoral to shop at Amazon, just as it is to shop at Walmart. Of course, it's nearly impossible to get a large enough group of people to boycott these days, so we need government regulation to keep corporate greed in check. Apparently even those who are being victimized the most by Amazon et al are seduced by the easy and cheap access to goods. "Cheap" because of exploitation like this, obviously.
1
What is happening is that all the social capital that companies like Fruit of the Loom built up in their communities over the years is being given away to vulture companies like Amazon.
This is the fault of the political system that allowed it to happen. These tax give-aways seemed like good policy but obviously were not. When it became apparent that a new model was needed, the political system should have reacted.
It did not.
We now have an angry, disenchanted electorate that does not understand why their lives have changed for the worse so much in that past 30 years.
We now have a lying republican cult headed by a flim-flam man like djt.
What a waste.
Vote for people who care. Vote Democrat in 2020.
97
@kirk "an angry disenchanted electorate" who think the whole thing is a zero sum game and don't want anyone to have more than they do. They also think Republicans will solve their problems. HA!
This is not a problem with Amazon. The problem lies solely with the GOP stranglehold on KY. Make the rich pay a fair share of taxes, raise the minimum wage to something reasonable, provide healthcare and education, and then we can discuss the evils of corporations.
100
@Tom in Copenhagen Amazon has an obligation not to exploit. Of course, government needs to regulate and not encourage them to exploit, as this town in KY is doing. But that doesn't take away from Amazon's responsibility to its community.
How is the story of modern America any different than an updated Dickens novel? You barely make enough to live, and the boss makes $387 trillion dollars.
184
The lead photo reminds me of a story of my niece who sold Westpoint Pepperill sheets tp department stores up and down the eastern US. She took a tour of one of their factories in the South, then returned home crying. The working conditions in those places were horrible.
12
I would like to tell the mayor that it is simply not true that “the people in Seattle don’t care” about her city or her state. Indeed, the people of Seattle, and Washington for that matter, pay out more in federal taxes than their own state receives. And those taxes get redistributed to the rest of the country, in many places where folks aren’t as fortunate. Like Kentucky. We’re all in this together. I too come from an industrial town that pretty much died after the timber industry collapsed (a perfect storm of overcutting, automation and environmental regulations). 30 years later, things have not improved, nor will they. My kids grew up, went off to college, and got jobs where there are good opportunities. We moved. You do what you have to do, no matter which state you’re in. It has always been thus. Please don’t make divisive statements, there is no need. We know your issues, we’ve had them too. This country is only as strong as our commitments to one another, corporate as well as personal. And yes, Amazon should, and can, pay a lot more — family wage jobs, good benefits, and taxes appropriate to the burden placed on local and state infrastructure and communities. Jeff Bezos chooses not to. His shareholders apparently agree. Shame on them all. Shame on us for championing policies that make it easy for them to escape all responsibility so the rest of us can pay extra for the social programs needed for our fellow citizens to survive.
318
@T Garrow. I’m willing to bet that when Ms. Allen, the mayor, referred to “the people of Seattle,” she was thinking about Jeff Bezos, the corporate directors, those in management positions in Seattle who set policy for fulfillment centers across the country. It seems that her comment, though, has struck a nerve. It might be appropriate for Seattle’s city government to work with Amazon to make changes to the company’s policies that extend outward to other parts of the country. After all, Amazon, along with Microsoft, Boeing and other corporations based there, are the public face of the city. If Amazon’s practices vis-à-vis other places it does business are notoriously tight-fisted, the reputation of Seattle suffers as well. It’s not fair, but it does.
My father grew up in the small mill town of Fairhaven, MA. One of the local residents was Henry Huttleston Rogers, an early oil pioneer and later executive of Standard oil. He used a small part of his fortune to build civic institutions in Fairhaven, including a public library, a grammar school, a high school, the town hall, public parks. That generosity was replicated by many other tycoons from the so-called Gilded Age, which is often compared to our current situation. But in one respect, Bezos and his colleagues cannot hold a candle to their predecessors: Bezos apparently thinks he hasn’t yet earned enough to give back to the communities that fostered his wealth.
37
@T Garrow
Not everyone is college material, and not everyone can pick up and move so easily. Elderly and fragile family members who do well in smaller communities often cannot adapt to larger metropolitan areas. Someone has to stay home and care for them.
It is also not clear that concentrating so many people in so few metropolitan areas is a plan that we can continue infinitely. The strains on housing, transportation and the environment cannot continue indefinitely while maintaining a quality of life that nurtures our minds and souls in addition to our pocketbooks and those of businesses.
Perhaps we as a nation need policies that will spread the wealth and opportunity throughout the country to preserve our social and political continuity.
12
@T Garrow
Yeah, moving is good. The odds of an improved quality of life are far better in other countries at far less risk. Americans are likely to lose every thing they earned in their lifetime if they are the one who gets sick.
Other countries have healthy tax systems that provide something in return.
Americans who pay taxes get pretty much nothing in return. While corporations that pay nothing in taxes get pretty much everything. Good gig if you can get it.
Americans like their vulture capitalism. They just can't live with it.
14
People and companies should pay taxes. All benefit from our infrastructure. We need paved roads, police to investigate criminal activity, fire protection, clean water, waste treatment, garbage collection, public education etc.
72
And so should most “non-profits”. Our taxes are paying for their infrastructure too.
6
@Pamela
and " churches "
9
@B Miller said "People and companies should pay taxes."
Since companies "are" people (according to the Supreme Court), of course they should pay taxes.
Historically, companies were not "people," which created a problem when it came to the standard language in contract and tax law.
In 1819, the Supremes opined on the rights of Corporations to enter into contracts.
Trustees of Dartmouth College v. Woodward, 17 U.S. (4 Wheat.) 518 (1819).
In 1886, an opinion was published with a headnote (not part of the opinion) declaring that for the purpose of tax law, companies (corporations) were "people."
Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad Company, 118 U.S. 394 (1886)
Another rich business man Jeff Bezos not paying the local area taxes for decades. Sounds like a Republican formula for getting the business in . They have been there for 20 years and still have lower wages than the Fruit of the loom textile jobs. I bet their apartment rents went sky high also and more people are homeless like Amazon caused in Seattle Washington. Lock these Republican men like Trump and all his like minded tax cheaters up. Business is suppose to earn money and pay taxes . You should have learned that in college economics 101.
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Amazon paid ZERO taxes.
Corporate welfare.
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@confounded I'd call it socialism...supported by the Republicans..
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"Median household income has barely kept pace with inflation."
What are you talking about? Median household income is 8% higher. That's 8% higher purchasing power per family. Tell me--what would that town be like if Amazon had not shown up? This is the kind of slanted reporting that conservatives gripe about. There are plenty of things wrong with Amazon, but they are providing jobs at a starting pay of $15/hr--higher than places like WalMart, Target, McDonalds, and Apple, which subcontracts its work to Chinese citizens treated so badly that they kill themselves on the job.
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@tanstaafl Remember when Henry Ford paid his employees a real wage? His reasoning was that if he did, his own employees could buy his cars and the whole economy would get better, not just put nickels in his pocket. Today's business owners like Mr. Bezos have such wealth that they make Henry Ford look like a common man and yet are so unwilling to treat most of their employees well and never treat their communities well. Just because Amazon is slightly better in wages than the lowest common denominators does not make this company a hero.
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@tanstaafl Saying Amazon is "better than China" is a twisted argument. What would that town be like if Amazon hadn't shown up? Perhaps its residents would still have their local businesses to buy from.
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They were literally paying taxes to Amazon. Does that sound like a good state of affairs?
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Ironically, if this town and these employees had modestly invested in Amazon - which has one of the best employee investment plan anywhere - they would be millionaires by now.
They want the reward without the risk - just like all non-investors who wail about the return of capital to actual investors in public companies while wondering where is their 'free-stuff'.
Just in case you are interested:
a $1,000 initial investment in Amazon would be currently worth just north of $1.4 million dollars.
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@SteveRR Part time employees on the line aren't eligible for these programs. And who has $1,000 to "invest" in stock when one is barely making the mortgage on a wage that low?
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@Mary A
The initial hiring in this town and the folks quoted were full-timers.
And you don't have to invest $1,000 if was an example - you could invest $100 or $500.
The math still applies but I do understand that most folks have zero interest in pursuing an investment of their employer versus a new truck or a better TV.
I had a matching program of up to 3% of wages and then 50% for the next 2% and still over half of my guys could not be bothered.
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@SteveRR They want real wages and benefits. It's not too much to ask.
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I try to buy local, but even in a city of 2.5 million, I frequently can't find a part or something else I might be after at a local hardware store or even at a hardware big box.
The default then? Amazon.
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@JK
The big boxes always have a major online presence. Even some of the locals are part of larger groups--ask them before you go Amazon. There are options to Bezos. I know. I have yet to order from Amazon and I do not live in a metro area.
Economic development in Kentucky has always been about promoting the advantages of a population that is willing to work and remain poor. When Kentucky opted into the Medicaid expansion there were 500,000 new insurance cards issued to people who mostly had jobs. Mitch McConnell and Matt Bevin believed that such socialism weakened the character of the common citizen. This reminded me of an observation by Will Durant, “Freedom, in the slogans of the strong, means freedom from restraint in the exploitation of the weak.”
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@Ralph
Funny how the warehouse worker has to hand back 5% of their pay to amazon because only with wealth as an incentive with the company and its leader have the incentive to produce, while the people getting $7.50 an hour can't handle a raise as that would *remove* their incentive.
I sure wish we had a little more government with a sufficient will to stop paying subsidies and stop allowing rapacious employers to ravage families and towns.
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What an awesome business model. Having the employees pay a portion of their paycheck for being able to work there. Clever, clever.
But honestly , it seems to me that the majority of the people are just happy with the way things are. First, they repeatedly vote people into power that created the big business friendly policies. If voters do not look out for their own economic interest by voting than no change will happen.
Change also takes place on a personal level. Order less from Amazon. Whenever I can, I shop local. I hate how Bezos operates his business. I hate how Amazon is creating this giant commerce behemoth and how it is trying to enter our homes via Alexa.
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@Karen B. Exactly. “I hate these Republican policies that have keep stifling my economic opportunity” says the people who vote for Republican politicians who stifle their economic opportunity.”
But they hate abortion, brown people, and the gays, so they simply must receive the votes.
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All the Amazon Prime tractor trailers I have seen on the road
have Hyundai trailers, made in Baja California, Mexico. Hyundai
trailers are top selling brand in the USA.
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To see the evolution of a challenged small town over time is heart breaking.
But, to lay this completely at the feet of amazon and “wealthy people from Seattle” and only offer higher taxes as the solution seems simplistic and demonizing.
Maybe the problem is multifactorial and there is no clear “robber baron” at whose feet this can be laid down...I suppose that would not make for exciting copy and would not neatly fit into a political dialogue (which this article is doing in a quiet way...)...
Of course I am not offering solutions ...but suspect any help will likely come from many small sources with many unsung heroes who simply believe in their community and will work tirelessly to improve it...
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74% of voters in Campbellsville voted for Trump. The pattern is much the same in other struggling small towns across the country. They reflexively vote Republican (even when the vile Trump is the offering). How long will largely rural folk think their salvation lies with the Republicans? Democrats simply must learn how to talk to these people if the country is to be saved.
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@Jeffrey Waingrow one can ask the same about struggling urban communities that voted nearly 100% for democrats and have for decades with similarly terrible results.
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God point. One of the reasons Amazon doesn’t pay fed taxes is because of the Trump tax bill. Trump, as you pint out, they voted into office.
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@Ariel
Actually, the poorest urban dwellers vote in relatively small numbers, period. And their plight is often wrapped up with racial barriers of various sorts. So these two communities are not particularly comparable, though both are marginalized in one way or another.
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Back to the days of not only the company town, but also the company store. I'm reminded of Tennessee Ernie Ford's lyrics:
"You load sixteen tons, what do you get
Another day older and deeper in debt
Saint Peter don't you call me 'cause I can't go
I owe my soul to the company store."
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@hdtvpete so the question is, who will be the Eugene Debs of today?
Perhaps corporations *never* felt any sense of civic responsibility, but it is an absolute certainty modern corporations feel absolutely no sense of civic responsibility whatsoever. Indeed, it seems modern corporations specifically go out of their way to be problematic to their communities and the fight tooth and nail against owning any civic responsibility at all.
The time has long since passed for our society, our culture, to *devalue* the importance of corporations. We give them far, far too much, rely on them far, far too much, and expect virtually nothing in return other than jobs (most of which clearly aren't very good). That's a cultural issue as much as it's a legal, moral or ethical issue.
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@M.A.A
Actually, right in the article Fruit of The Looms relationship with the town is discussed and shown to have been one of mutual respect and cooperation; nothing at all like that of Amazon.
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@lzolatrov
Because Fruit was a local outpost that grew. Companies that begin and grow in a town tend to benefit the town as a "thank you" (oversimplification but to make a point): look at what Amazon did for Seattle - the billion-dollar campus.
Frankly, Amazon owes no allegiance to Campbellsville because it is simply a distribution center. As much as the city would like Amazon to be a better corporate sponsor, why would they? It's simply another warehouse location.
The days of companies feeling a "moral obligation" to do right by the town they're in is long gone. It's transactional, and nothing more. If companies want better tax participation that should be set up from the get-go. Dangling large tax incentives for <1000 jobs is counterproductive. But that's what they chose and this is the outcome.
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@lzolatrov
Yeah, right. So much "mutual respect and cooperation" that they left town, leaving thousands without jobs. Ask the town's residents which they would rather have (a) Fruit of the Loom's "mutual respect & cooperation," or (b) the jobs that Amazon provides.
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This is exactly why big corporations must pay taxes. They go into small towns and exploit the labor because there is no competition for jobs. That allows them to set wage rates as low as possible. They drive out other legacy small businesses. The town becomes totally dependent upon them. Then they get massive local tax breaks to operate, otherwise, they would not have set up shop there.
The profits go somewhere else. They go to the shareholders. If those profits were taxed, a portion of them could be recycled back into the local community for things like schools, infrastructure, daycare, healthcare, stuff that people need.
The company, Amazon in this case, holds the small town in a vice grip. Local politicians crow that they got Amazon, which saved the town. But then the town is put on an economic starvation diet.
This is the same argument conservatives make when they try to eliminate minimum wages. They claim that will produce more jobs. Sure it does. Slavery produced a lot of jobs.
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@Bruce Rozenblit Why support building schools with good teachers? The kids might grow up to read and think. A recipe for disaster for the politicians and corporations.
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@Bruce Rozenblit: You've been listening to my mantra! Well said, I will only add that a company that truly invests in its community stays in the community.
Anyone who has been in the corporate world has heard executives say just that, in reverse: "Employees who invest in the company, stay in the company! And they work harder, are more productive! Rah, rah, sizz boom bah!" What's good for the goose apparently isn't good for the gander.
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@Bruce Rozenblit Why shouldn't Kentucky vote for Republicans, especially the town of Campbellsville? The article says "The easy times ended with the North American Free Trade Agreement, which took effect in 1994."
As I recall, there were main two candidates in 2016, one was firmly against globalization, and the other said there was nothing we could do to stop it.
Who would you vote for?
( Brief history, is it was a Reagan idea, then Bush, then Clinton, from wikipedia: "The agreement's supporters included 132 Republicans and 102 Democrats. The bill passed the Senate on November 20, 1993, 61–38, 34 Republicans and 27 Democrats )
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The unanswered question, likely unasked, is how many early employees took advantage of Amazon’s stock purchase program?
Not a cautionary tale, this should be an encouraging one. Kids, when your employer offers stock at a discount, buy as much as you can. Drive the old car for another year, and cut back everywhere else.
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@Alex Emerson I know someone who just lost a soul wrenching amount of money doing what you’re describing. These are not wealthy people and amazon was not a sure bet at the time. Not everyone is fortunate enough to be able to take that sort of risk with even $10k responsibly. Every person commenting this suggestion exposes that they haven’t spent much time in these sorts of communities.
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@Alex Emerson
I'm sure this advice worked out extremely well for employees of Enron/WeWork/Global Crossing/Lehman Brothers, etc.
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@Alex Emerson Buying company stock is a risk just like any other. There is a risk that the shares fall in value and never recover. And if you sell your stock purchase plan shares just after they are purchased, you make up that 15% discount but have to pay taxes for a disqualifying disposition. It's not as "easy" as you state.
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Stunning photography. The opening photo puts the site in the context of moody landscape painting, which makes the industrial residue seem ephemeral - quite a feat.
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what happened to ft campbell
@foster Ft. Campbell is two and a half hours away in a different part of the state.
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