We don't need the FBI to show us that this President has been in thrall to the Russians for years. All we need to do is listen to Trump's ramblings.
4
1967, age 16, I worked as night janitor, AT&T switching station. I never saw anybody and was buzzed in to replace light bulbs and sweep.
It was obvious that there were wiretaps all over the place. Must have been a lot of criminals in the very wealthy town.
Over the PA somebody played interesting conversations all night.
Very creepy...
1
Good article. However, the strangest thing about this article, published on Dec 11, is that it (as of Dec 12, 5pm EST) has only 96 comments. Most articles of this nature and importance in the New York Times have at least several hundred by now, if not a thousand.
Likely cause ? --Many of the New York Times readers are hearing the truth about this FISA abuse for the first time and are stunned, -although Conservative media have been sharing it (with any fair-minded readers who would listen) for many months, if not a year or so.
Moral of the story ? -Don't rely on only Liberal or only Conservative news media sources. Listen to both sides, judge what makes sense as the story develops. Don't chisel your opinion in stone early, based on listening only to one side of the story.
4
@Kelly Really? People should not draw conclusions about viewpoints which oppose the ones they possess. I freely admit a bias against Trump but not for any of the reasons you assume. I base my beliefs on:
*the 13,000+ documented lies told by this President
*the callous disdain he displays toward immigrant children, keeping them in cages
*removing food stamps knowing full well,while some may abuse the welfare system, most don't!
*what I see with my eyes and what I hear with my own ears
* his flagrant disregard for laws
* his attempt stack the Supreme Court with people he thinks he can control
* all the frivolous lawsuits he has Lost since coming to office
* bilking Veterans out of $2,000.000.00 he has been court ordered to pay back
* his betrayal of the Kurds and our own military
* his interference in a military ruling against a seal
These are just a few of the things that come to mind. I could go on to mention his friends that are now sitting in jail, the numerous abuses he has inflicted on others , his friendships with the despots he wants to emulate but I have to stop somewhere.
8
I feel to take the IG's opinion with a grain of salt.
He serves at the pleasure of Individual One - a manifestly and notoriously UNFIT person for the office of the presidency EVEN DURING THE 2016 CAMPAIGN (something that was obvious to a great many people, but not so much so to those in the great hinterland of the flyover zone) - and therefore walks on eggshells for his continued employment in that role (as all that gang of adventurers, grifters and con artists who Individual One picks to be in his administration, do).
However, like judges in a majority opinion who, to use a legal term "concur in the result" (which means that they agree with the majority, although perhaps not for the same reasons), I DO agree that the FBI is corrupt.
Look at the New York Field Office, which is a HOTBED of support for Individual One during the 2016 campaign. Look at Rudy Giuliani, and his intrusive influence.
And, let us not forget, that the FBI was meant to be America's answer to the GESTAPO of the Nazis, in the 1930s.
So there's all that.
This said, even this corrupted and demeaned (because that is what happens when you dirty your hands in Individual One's administration - you become degraded) IG had to admit that there was nothing ultimately improper about the FBI's investigation.
So there's THAT.
1
Here's my question, and I've never heard anyone answer it, if the primary concern of the FBI in Crossfire Hurricane was to look into threats to our establishments and elections from Russian infiltration, and if that was the primary focus of the Mueller investigation... why did they not seek a FISA warrant and surveillance of Hillary Clinton campaign personnel that were working with Christopher Steele who was working directly with Russian assets to develop his opposition research? It is now well known that information fed to Steele by Russians were inaccurate and likely intended to undermine one of the two major candidates in the 2016 election. (See NYT earlier this year). Someone in the Clinton campaign communicated with him, approved his work, approved his sourcing and approved his payment. Who was it? Why weren't they surveilled? If the FBI etc were so worried about campaign officials having contacts with foreigners including Russians trying to influence our election, why was no one assigned to look in to the Clinton campaign, Christopher Steele and his sources? And how can you say that the FBI wiretapping Trump campaign advisor Carter Page is OK, but not only looking the other way as Clinton campaign advisors working with foreign agents and Russians but having the FBI use Steele's work with the Russians as your predicate to surveil Page???
And you don't see political bias in the origins of this investigation???
7
@REPNAH What an insane take on the situation.
1
Why wasComey unwilling to get authorization necessary to review the classified documents needed to refresh his memory to be re interviewed? Comey has been lying since he said he didn’t take the notes that were FBI work product. Under oath he said he didn’t know who paid for the dossier, and that his memory of the dossier? it was only a small portion of the FISA applications. Comey is brazenly claiming exoneration, and worse, demanded apologies after he has been referred for prosecution. Let’s see if Durham can wipe that smirk off his face. He is now in jeopardy of not only a criminal referral, but a conviction. They should contact CNN, and make sure the frog march takes place from his home at 4 in the morning.
4
You people are insane if you believe the IG report debunked anything. This was nothing less than an attempted coup of a duly elected POTUS. The only thing that stood in the way was that stable genius DJT. The man is smarter than the Deep State AND the liberal media combined. The good news is, you'll have four more years to try again.
5
better check the mirror. this buffoon and his minions are looking to enrich themselves at the taxpayers trough and stay in power indefinitely.
3
I cannot believe that all this was merely an unbiased comedy of incompetence and error. How is it then all the “errors” consistently cut in only one direction not the other? And with the admission of texts that proclaim the biases, it just looks very, very damning. I cannot wait to see the indictments.
Democrats are now crying for impeachment of one who allegedly “looked for dirt on a potential political opponent,” yet have absolutely no problem with their own side falsifying dirt against and spying on their political opponents. Unbelievable hypocrisy. Vote them all out in November.
10
None of this FBI misbehavior is a surprise. Organizations like the Electronic Freedom Foundation and the ACLU have been raising these issues about FISA warrants and unconstitutional FBI surveillance for over a decade. But when the civil liberties of Muslims, Black Lives Matter protesters or anti-war protesters are the rights being violated, most of Congress is willing to look the other way. Except, once the FBI, or any other organization comes to understand it can skate around the rules for some cases, it is difficult for them to contain themselves to just those people whom the majority is content to see attacked. Lindsey Graham proved during the Kavanaugh hearing that he is not a person of principle, but in this case I have to agree with him about the implications of this for future investigations.
2
We are seeing and hearing what was discovered and revealed in the report. We are not seeing and hearing what has not been discovered and revealed.
1
The Trumpists, I no longer call them Republicans as I have too much respect for the Republican Party, complain the FBI was biased against Trump. What did they expect? FBI agents are highly educated.
4
Well it’s certain they are highly educated. What’s alarming is that they appear to be not very smart.
3
For those Trump supporters let's recall just how many times you indicated that Comey's report on Hillary Clinton did not exonerate her fully. Same thing here.
4
Trump and his crew does something suspect and immediately point to others as doing something to him by playing the role of a victim.
Now the FBI and CIA have to spend time proving that they didn't do anything as alleged by Trump and have to write reports reporting every darned thing they did do and Trump and his crew get away with bloody murder and has to explain nothing or calls what the agency says a lie.
This is a tactic that reminds me of passive/aggressive behavior.
The various agencies are forced to play by the books exactly while the real aggressor does not.
In other words, he is playing the system and because he is president, he is allowed to get away because heaven forbid, we question the actions of a president, especially this one.
Trump did have help from the Russians.
That is clear.
He invited interference from the Russians.
That is also clear.
He has again done the same thing with Ukraine right in front of our eyes.
In all aspects, he is probably getting his marching orders from Putin as he would be the biggest beneficiary in the US looking like the Keystone cops.
When the FBI began its investigations on the Trump campaign, he wasn't president, he was just a person running for president.
As such, he was owed no special treatment.
Why do we act as he did?
The FBI and the CIA were just doing their jobs.
8
Another story about Donald Trump and how he is the victim. All he and his defenders talks about is how great and wonderful he is and how he is always the victim despite all the lies that spews out of his mouth and despite the fact that he is not fit for president. We have over 300 million people that live in the United States yet every single day it's all about Donald Trump. Well news flash the world does not revolve around Donald Trump. What about the rest of us that live here and when are we ever gonna get to business? He has turned his presidency into nothing more then a reality show where no one in America can turn the channel and we're supposed to deal with this for 8 years?! It's amazing how people can't see how we are all being led like little sheep. He needs to go so that we can focus on something else besides him.
4
The FBI is absolutely not the problem, whereas the narcissist-in-chief and congressional Republicans absolutely are. Republicans, the gaslighting party, are failures in terms of country first. Their yelling and "outrage" are thin disguises for the moral-ethical failures the party now represents. Their interest in the constitution and rule of law is highly selective and their defense of the miserable excuse for a president is proof of why so many true moderate conservatives have left the party, which should be burned to the ground.
Eclectic Pragmatism — http://eclectic-pragmatist.tumblr.com/
Eclectic Pragmatist — https://medium.com/eclectic-pragmatism
3
So much for Trump being a useful idiot of the Russians or a Russian spy. The media in this country is to be feared at least as much as the Russians or the Chinese. U.S. news media new moniker should be Pravda West. Still trying to figure out who is in the pocket of who: the media in the Democrat's or vice versa. Trump is going to win in a crushing landslide in 2020. I listened to Horowitz's testimony and was aghast at what I heard. This was a carefully orchestrated attempt to entrap Trump and his campaign. Unconscionable that the FBI told Clinton and Feinstein about problems they were having but Trump was left to hang out to dry about possible Russian involvement in his campaign? WOW! Ukraine is just Russia 2.0. Someone had better be fitted for an orange jumpsuit with Schiff leading the pack.
4
Maybe The Times should have waited before publishing Comey's Opinion piece.....?
7
If stupidity and incompetence is all that happened in this one case, then it is likely happening in other cases at the vast FBI. Why isolate stupidity to just this case? Haul out Wray and take a close look at the FBI.
But there is another explanation that people on these pages ignore because they fervently wish it were not true, or not uncovered:
Somebody was directing this show. Somebody gave the word. And the word(s) was: Get Trump.
FBI agents are not in the habit of lying to courts unprompted.
Who gave the word?
Is this a conspiracy theory? Yes, it is a theory that there was a conspiracy. Cui bono? No other explanation fits the facts as well.
8
Here goes the Times again, for a second day at this critical moment in the impeachment debate. Again, Mssrs. Savage and Goldman, where's the NEW news in the Horowitz investigation, the news that addresses the propaganda and lies this president and Republicans have been dispensing about the Russia investigations since Day One and still are? Did Horowitz verify, with documentation, that "Never Trumpers," Hillary supporters and Obama holdovers on the payroll of the FBI who were "out to get" a president they "hated" made the key decisions to start and continue the FBI investigation into possible Russian involvement in the election campaign, for EITHER candidate? No, he made the opposite conclusion, based on facts, not hearsay. And yet the Times focuses on a FISA application process that has been problematic and controversial since its inception as if this were the first time it had been challenged. Your irresponsible journalism is breathtaking.
2
When does reality set in? He did it, regardless of the deflections. What is wrong with these senators that will use any argument, pertinent or not, to deflect from the actual dangers to our democracy and those who are content not to question these deflections. I'm not suggesting that errors shouldn't be corrected for the future, but shouldn't honorable senators be more concerned with the danger of other countries are influencing our elections?
5
Charlie Savage and Adam Goldman wrote: The Justice Department’s inspector general on Wednesday painted a bleak portrait of the F.B.I. as a dysfunctional agency that severely mishandled its surveillance powers in the Russia investigation, but told lawmakers he had no evidence that the mistakes were intentional or undertaken out of political bias rather than “gross incompetence and negligence.”
Heinlein’s Razor circa 1941: You have attributed conditions to villainy that simply result from stupidity.
Hanlon’s Razor circa 1980: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
Johann Wolfgang von Goethe circa 1774: Misunderstandings and lethargy perhaps produce more wrong in the world than deceit and malice do. At least the latter two are certainly rarer.
Jane West circa 1812: Let us not attribute to malice and cruelty what may be referred to less criminal motives.
4
@Michigander, the same philosophy could be assigned to Trump and his actions. Not really malevolent, just pretty poorly thought out and clumsily presented.
3
It should not come as a surprise that the FBI has bureaucracy problems, just as all large bureaucracies do. I have seen it happen that even while a union contract specified that an individual could see his/her file anytime, when a secretary said "no" the department head felt he had to support the secretary so he said "no." His supervisor felt that the department head was owed support, so he said "no". It took a formal grievance and hearing to get an approval as required. Getting to "yes" is not easy in any bureaucracy, and in the case of a super-cautious agency like the FBI it must be harder to reverse anything which might have enforcement issues lurking in the background. Senator Blumenthal's sensible corrective legislation should be passed and not let this be reason to bully an agency while neglecting corrective action. The larger illegal crimes caught should not be ignored and let Trump, like a squid, escape in a flood of ink.
31
@Ed Marth Blumenthal''s stolen valor about serving in Vietnam discredits him.
8
@Kathleen McCook
What about the valor of one who never went because of bone spurs, but was able to play ball with these spurs. Shouldn't he also be discredited according to your logic or is it only selective logic that you use?
4
@Kathleen McCook
So Mr. Blumenthal's "stolen valor" discredits him. Fine. So what are we to make of all the lies that Trump, Fox News and the Republican party spew out every day? Are you so quick to discredit them? And if not, why not?
6
So the bottom line is that senior FBI officials in Obama’s administration falsified FISA requests to influence the 2016 Presidential election.
9
@Rich Simply stated, and obviously accurate.
Thank you.
6
Count on the NY Times to focus on "withering criticism" of the FBI rather than the major finding - no wrongdoing in the overall investigation process and no evidence of political bias - except perhaps toward Clinton. There you go again.
6
Good job, Mr. Horowitz. It's high time for non-partisan evaluation of government operations, especially in Congress.
And, it's time for President Trump to end his string of 13 thousand lies and misleading statements as reported accurately by Washington Post. His latest lie that must be stopped in its tracks is that Judaism is now a nationality, It is meant to thwart legitimate criticism of the government of Israel.
5
Horowitz said he found no evidence of political bias in the gathering of the evidence. He did NOT say there was no political bias in the agent's intentions. He simply said he couldn't find any.
I remain unconvinced that the people targeting Trump weren't doing it gleefully because he wasn't "one of them". And that the only way the Dems could win the election is if they dis-enfranchised every single person who voted for Trump.
8
@EconomistOnHealth For over 3 years, the democrats failed to produce any meaningful legislation, failed simply because their entire focus was to criticize and attack President Trump because they hate him; he beat their sure favorite, crooked Hillary. I think the democratic party has exposed a conspiracy, their conspiracy.
3
Adam Schiff recently obtained and published the phone records of his political colleagues and media adversaries. It appears that no FISA application was obtained for his purpose of smearing his opponents and no charges have been filed against him. What is he, the Pope?
7
Neither Sen. Tillis nor anyone else can make a case for there being a plot against Trump from this report. A lot more anti-HRC emails than anti-DJT emails is a fact from the report, but there are no communications referenced to show agents working together to undo either. The deep-state of the GOP “brain trust” is the real deep state.
4
@Peety Supporters of the haters within the democratic party are the true enemies of this nation.
1
911 occurs under a Republican president and American law enforcement is granted sweeping powers to investigate and more lenient justifications to perform surveillance. 15 years later a Republican presidential candidate is investigated for obvious ties with an enemy government (justified investigation) and now American law enforcement is to be restricted and their ability to investigate and perform surveillance must be restricted. Republicans gotta decide which world they are living in; the world of post-911, or the world of President puppet.
7
@TEB Really, obvious ties? Have you heard about the Bidens, the Pelosi clan, or the Clintons? probably not, you just hate the President of the United States.
2
@John; What do the Bidens, Pelosi clan (??), or the Clintons have to do with President puppets wrongdoing? If any of the individuals you have mentioned (Pelosi clan? Really?) have done anything wrong, then the United States Department of Justice* should (and would) look into it.
*Not Ukraine.*
2
@Sully The Mueller report did find ties between the Trump Campaign and the Russians! Trump publicly invited Russian interference in the 2016 elections. It also proved obstruction of justice by Trump! The Mueller Report states the only reason Trump was not charged for his illegal actions was because the Justice Department had issued an OPINION that a sitting President can't be indited. This report did Not exonerate Trump but it did expose his perfidy.
no Collusion is not a legal term but one that Trump likes to regurgitate.
2
One gigantic issue with Republican’s claims of a conspiracy against Donald Trump. Before the election the FBI apparently leaked information damaging to Hillary Clinton, but managed to keep all information damaging to Trump secret. There is ample evidence people in the FBI hated both candidates, but only one was actually damaged before the election.
16
@Dan M Hillary was damaged long before she ran in the election. If there was so much damaging information on President Trump why didn't you, or the rest of the stooge democrats bring it up? You didn't think he had a chance, and the other clowns needed time to develop the story line. You disgust me.
3
It’s interesting, and telling, that the article quotes Senator Lindsay Graham, one of Trump’s most vociferous supporters, to bolster its position. Graham’s goal is not to improve America’s legal system, but rather to discredit it, along with the FBI, all in the service of protecting Trump. If he was interested at all in the truth, he would support allowing the public testimony of the administration officials who have firsthand knowledge of the facts.
10
@Sully Really Sully!?! The impeachment inquiry is based on Trumps own written (incomplete) transcript of the call! Can you say EXTORTION?
1
There is something here that does not ring true.
If the cause were simply "gross incompetence and negligence" (it is unclear whether gross was intended to modify only incompetence or both incompetence and negligence) as Mr. Horowitz claims, one would think the FBI's errors would have been random in nature with some being negative and others being positive in nature.
However, that is not the case here. The report documents that the FBI changed evidence, intentionally ignored exculpatory evidence, and used evidence of known dubious quality. All the errors were clearly negative in nature. The result was that the FBI could spy on an American citizen. In this case, a citizen who was close to the Trump campaign.
When all the actions point a certain way, that is not negligence. That is intentional conduct. Thus, the report fails because there was no effort to try to ascertain the underlying intentions of the persons involved.
When we look at some of the FBI actors during the relevant time period, we clearly see a very strong anti-Trump bias in some of the key players, such as, Lisa Page and Peter Strzok to mention several. Accordingly, the question is still open and not "debunked" as some of us would like to claim.
21
@jpduffy3 You're making some unfounded logical assumptions: that the errors need be completely random if not politically biased, which leads to the erroneous assumption that the errors must average out evenly "positive" and "negative".
You fail to consider that there was bias, just not the one Republicans were looking for. That bias was moving things along because of laziness, and avoiding more work would tend to favor "negative" errors. Which makes sense, since "positive" errors would require much more investigation and fine tuning of paperwork; "negative" errors would not. I presume by "positive" you mean favorable to the subjects of investigation.
The reason this is just as bad as political bias, but not helpful to Trumpist political messaging, is that if it was political bias, at least some people - those favored politically by the worker bees who made the errors - would get full attention and thorough handling. General laziness, probably in passing stuff that looks sorta "okay" or making them look so if you think they probably are, means everyone is in danger of getting gored by that ox.
Also, though Fox et al. have played up the Pages and Strzoks of the thing (whom I wouldn't really call "key players"), there were (and are) at least as many Hillary haters in the FBI. For example, someone was feeding Rudy Giuliani a lot of information during the investigation into Hillary's emails.
Here is a probable fact: there are WAY more conservatives in the FBI than liberals.
4
NOW THAT TRUMP IS IMPEACHED, The GOPpers are attacking the process since they have submitted NO exculpatory evidence from Trump. Their tactic of changing the subject won't get them very far with the US electorate. Meanwhile I'm trying to determine whether there is any truth to the rumor that Trump's fair-haired boy, Lindsey Graham, is going to join the global panoply of bad hair guys, including Trump and Kim. And since Trump and Kim fell in love, as Trump tells it, does that mean that Lindsey Graham is going to join them in a love triangle of bad hair boys? I think he's a lousy candidate for that honor since his hair is so well coiffed. But boys will be boys. And boys make noise.
3
The FBI has been a political tool for way too long. It seems they still only bust kids for joints while purposely ignoring any and all white collar crimes and of course they cannot be bothered to keep records of bad cops or the murders they commit. They are just not up to the job because their job is political.
9
Why no mention of pro Trump bias in the FBI? There most assuredly is and was.
13
@Allan J. Marcil Totally and utterly irrelevant. Any FBI agent who could be characterized as "pro Trump" was not involved at all in the SPYING (let's call it for what it is and not sugar coat the horrific nature of these crimes). Conversely, Page, Strozok, et al were virulent Trump haters and were near the tip of the spear on this KGB - like activity. Comey has some explaining to do and hopefully Durham is going to bring the hammer down on this self righteous clown who saw fit to leak classified info to his professor friend a while back.
4
@Allan J. Marcil
Hear, Hear.
3
Republicans are surprised FISA is being abused? Hunh.
4
The end of this article is scary and confusing.
"I think it’s pretty clear what his [Christopher Wray's] state of mind is on that: This should not have occurred, Mr. Horowitz said."
Is Mr. Horowitz talking about "opening investigations that involve scrutiny of constitutionally protected activities, such as political campaigns" ? So Russian interference in 2016 should not have been investigated?
4
The real conspiracy is still intact. Our system of goverment is being stonewalled by a criminal-in-chief. The incremental slide of powers to the President over the years has produced a king. Our Constitution has been raped and the "conservatives" who should be protecting its intent, are destroying it. Russia and Fox News are foreign powers. They each have enacted conspiracies against us. Every Citizen needs to take action, reaching out to the persuadables that are being fed conspiracies every day.
13
In all advanced progressive governments, it is essential to have a very strong central state guarded by an even stronger agency of rule compliance. Progressive policies often run counter to human nature, and thus need an extreme agent of surveillance and force projection to control those who will not recomform to being a New Man. America has partially transformed its keyh federal enforcement agencies from typical unbiased police forces to such necessary vehicles. President Obama followed in President Bush's footsteps in advancing this cause. Trump and his radical freedom supporters are attempting to dismantle all these advances and in such stop and reverse the march to Progressive Utopia. Progressives must stand behind these agence heros.
5
@drcmd Precisely why the Federal government must be forced back into the box of "Enumerated Powers" as established by the Constitution, and return the rest back to the States. Radical freedom is exactly the fight worth having, and "deconstruction of the administrative state" operating outside enumerated powers is the most effective pathway to get there.
4
The FISA application process should be reformed. However, a clear pattern by Trump and his organization of publicly requesting that Russian hack Hillary Clinton's emails as well as private meetings with Flynn, Donald Jr., Page, Manafort, and other unsavory types to swing the election actually worked in 2016. Trump is peeved because his legitimacy to be the American president as always been in question for good reason. Most recently, the impeached president asked the President of Ukraine for a favor in return for the release of the military aid that Congress had approved. The "favor" was the announcement of an investigation into a political rival for 2020, so that Fox and Friends could endlessly fulminate conspiracy theories about Biden in support of Trump's theatrical, fantasy-based presidency. If Trump wins he will prove the corruption of the American government and the uselessness of the taxpayers in propping up a no longer democratic nation.
21
This country is so divided, no one knows what end is up. Here’s another example.
One thing learned from Donald Trump, if a truth can be turned over by a lie, and getting others to believe it, he gets a score of 100+ in accomplishing brain washing to his favor.
We seniors are witness to a vicious, dangerous, and reckless state of affairs. And it gets more disheartening every day. It’s not about democracy, one nation indivisible. It’s not about leadership that encourages working together. It’s about scoring points with Donald J. Trump, no matter legislators or citizens.
And Americans had better compare this to historical failures across the world. We are being led down a very dangerous path...and being led from the top down.
31
I think this impeachment process is actually good for our government. It has allowed both sides to articulate some of their long held grievances going all the way back to the 80s, openly, on T.V. It has shed light on government functions that ordinarily might be vague for many Americans. It has showcased the character, intelligence and integrity of our individual representatives. Hopefully, we will have a slightly more informed public at the end of this process.
8
And the utter lack of morals and character of the Corruptlican members of Congress...absolutely shameful, for which they have none.
Vote Blue across the board in 2020.
1
@Jonathan I was just thinking exactly the same thing about the Republiscams! Perhaps the new chant at ralleys should be 'Dump Trump!'
1
This article is somewhat biased. If the authors researched, or even read research on organizational functions they would find that most organizations are indeed dysfunctional m. There are an exceptional few that are mindfully led. That said the report’s significance is that it debunks a conspiracy theory, that of the deep state. Trump uses conspiracy theories to control the narrative to keep his base. Please editors encourage your writers to do more research and less sensational writing.
41
@Diane J Abatemarco So when someone is believed to have committed a crime, it's okay for the police to make mistakes and negligently handle/create evidence to convict that person we believe is a criminal? Having worked with government agencies, I can agree that all agencies have dysfunction, as do companies and most any other organization that involves human beings interacting on a task. However, I do find it more than suspicious that all the "incompetence and negligence" went in the same direction. I cannot believe it was not a deliberate attempt to get Trump out of office. Not possible this was an accident.
I think most would agree, if the target was not Trump.
2
The FISA warrant system was established by Congress in 1978 to oversee surveillance requests against foreign spies inside the U.S. As of 2013, the FISA Court had reviewed more than 35,000 surveillance requests; only 12 were rejected. Carter Page had been investigated and subject to regularly renewed FISA warrants since 2013. To say the FBI "misled" the court with the Steele dossier in getting his warrant renewed yet again in March 2017 is ludicrous -- they would grant an application to surveil a ham sandwich! What should disturb everyone is that the FISA Court exists at all, and that the FBI and NSA are using it to spy not just on foreign nationals, but on American citizens.
Both parties are conning us. Trump definitely tried to squeeze a foreign government to get dirt on a political enemy; the DNC and Hillary's campaign definitely worked with Ukrainian operatives for what became the Steele Dossier to dish dirt on Trump; Hunter Biden's very presence on the Bursima board was corrupt, whether or not his dad tried to protect him; Hunter's accompanying his dad to China to further his business interests there was corrupt; Ivanka's accompanying her President Dad to China and furthering her business interests there was corrupt. They are all corrupt. McConnell, Graham, Pelosi, Schiff -- corrupt. Both parties are, as Upton Sinclair observed, "merely separate wings of the same bird of prey." It is time to take the red pill. We need a revolution, not more circuses to distract us.
16
@Boris Jones Ah Boris, I agree, I agree. And I'm all for the revolution. What gives us pause is only that we sometimes fear to get what we wish for. I was all aboard with Castro in the 50s, I gave my heart to Mustapha Barzani, I thought Gaddafi an improvement over the king, Johnson was going to get us out of the war. As a boy I watched bemused as all the bright lights of British Intelligence finally fled to Russia (except Anthony Blunt, of course, whose exposure would have embarrassed the government even more). But perhaps you meant a revolution of our moral compass, our moral fiber. A culture in which all of the examples you give would not even get off the ground. Now THAT would be a real revolution.
10
@Boris Jones I seemed to remember and then researched my thought, Senator McCain gave the Steele Dossier to the FBI for investigation, yet no one yesterday at the hearings and today in you post mentioned it. One Republican thought it was serious, and no most of it was not debunked. Here's a link to the story.
https://www.mediaite.com/online/lindsey-graham-says-he-told-john-mccain-to-give-steele-dossier-to-fbi-he-acted-appropriately/
And another of many.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/sen-lindsey-graham-says-he-told-john-mccain-to-give-trump-russia-dossier-to-fbi/2019/03/25/f35e28ca-4f26-11e9-a3f7-78b7525a8d5f_story.html
15
@Boris Jones "Both parties are coning us" has been true for decades. Imho, the increase in economic inequality grew with Reagan's "trickle down" revolution. The Citizens United decision prompted me to adapt unique job experience to campaign finance reform. But the criminal Trump administration, its coziness with our adversaries, and Republican accomplices, has moved my effort from political necessity to moral imperative. They've put sustainable life on Earth in danger.
We, the People, failed Civics 101 when we forced candidates to beg for campaign funds. Political parties are just private clubs that inserted themselves between the People and Our government. They obstruct competition, isolate disfavored voters, enrich their donors and empower themselves. Voters got what they didn't pay for: legislators who serve the same birds of prey. Without opening the Constitution for amendments that these vultures would devour, we could legislate campaign finance reform that would mitigate the status quo. Voters have the same fundamental needs, but differ on implementation and financing. By "buying" our own legislators with a tax on individual I.R.S. tax filers, we can alter the balance of power. Draft gratis effort is titled The Fair Elections Fund--a Whole New Ball Game©️, @thefaireection.
5
Well, I don't know about you, but as an American citizen I take great comfort in knowing that the F.B.I.'s severe mishandling of its surveillance powers resulted from "gross incompetence and negligence" rather than being intentional or undertaken out of political bias.
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While this was one of the more even-handed stories I have seen from the Times concerning Trump, it is a gigantic stretch to believe that three hand-picked teams of about a dozen agents each could have “gross incompetence or negligence” to this degree. Even if it’s not political bias, it’s scary to think the “FBI always gets its man” mentality led agents to overlook evidence that debunked the Steele dossier, and even worse, intentionally altered a document that would likely have stopped FBI surveillance of a private citizen. My personal view is much darker as to the origin and execution of this investigation.
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Do we need more false equivalents? Yeah, the FBI is another dysfunctional government bureaucracy—but that's not the question. Stop arguing "process" and carrying water for the GOP. The IG report makes it clear that there was zero forethought and/or conspiracy by any in the FBI to undermine Trump's candidacy or presidency. That's the lede, don't bury it. Democracy isn't dead, not quite... not yet.
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@Patrick Hasburgh "The IG report makes it clear that there was zero forethought and/or conspiracy by any in the FBI to undermine Trump's candidacy or presidency."
Exactly. The culprits are merely bad professionals, probably just too lazy to be trusted with this kind of work, and not Never Trumpers. I mean, c'mon, back then no one thought Trump even had a real shot at winning, so why bother purposeful bias? What the FBI needs to do is track down everything else the bums worked on, most of which would have nothing to do with Trump. The errors crept in at a low enough level such that up at the McCabe and Comey level there would have been no way for those guys to know there was a mess in the works.
As for the demise of Democracy - we'll know come the day after Election Night, 2020.
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What a sad state of affairs. As each partisan camp lurches further right and left I find myself desperately clinging to the middle like a shipwreck victim clings to floating debris in a vast ocean.
No quarter asked, no quarter given, it is a fight to the death between the extremes. And somewhere in the middle lies the truth waiting to be discovered.
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So if you can't debunk Trump's accusations that the investigation was baseless, continue smearing the FBI. The Trump administration is a shining success for the Russia's security and intelligence services. And the entire Republican Party is compromised.
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Someone should explain to liberals that an IG stating he did not find documentary or testimonial evidence to confirm bias basically means nothing. Most criminals don’t document their reason for committing a crime, then confess. Horowitz stated all the explanations didn’t add up. In cases like this, RICO statutes are very successful. Instead of charging individuals separately, where everyone claims an error, mistake, or lack of proof, A RICO prosecution does not even require each of the accused actors to know of the conspiracy, only that their actions participated in the crime. Durham can easily show many people had biased intent without confessions or written confirmations. Their combined efforts were intentional to commit a crime before the court, and deprive Americans of their constitutional rights. A conviction of RICO statutes involves a lot more time than the usual 6 months for perjury. Jailing them all would be a far better deterrent than revising 40 policies of government procedures. I believe section 1510 of the RICO Act, obstruction of a criminal investigation fits the crime, but other sections could be used for different crimes. I hope Durham goes after every person involved as doggedly as Weismann did in the Mueller Investigation.
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A RICO charging of the entire Trump fiasco is called for. Even the NRA is transferring money from Russia to support it.
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@Jay Maybe someone should explain to you that no one is a mind reader, but actions of a person doing their job will reveal whether there is bias or not. If we used RICO standards then Trump should already be in jail. His cohorts with him. The liberals as you put can reason for themselves that from the day Trump assumed office he has broken every rule applying to him. Emoluments, Nepotism, using his ability to declassify anything he wants simply by uttering it out loud to his Russian friends certainly seems to fit the bill of a completely incompetent President. It really rankles me that our tax dollar is going to pay for Guiliani and Durham's witch hunt.
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@Sandra Andrews since no one is a mind reader, and all the comments and opinions about what Trump when he asked for a favor, under your standards, Trump cannot be impeached. He has never admitted to any of the charges, and no documentary evidence exist. Democrats should ask Horowitz for his interpretation of the accusations of Trump.
I watched this hearing practically all day. I am deeply disturbed by the edit by adding additional words to a letter from the CIA that then was presented as original. That I am a liberal leaning Democrat does nothing to change the above fact. I feel embarrassed for my country. I was elated to hear Lindsay Graham state indisputably that Russia did meddle in the 2016 election. Both parties must focus on seeking truth and not just talking points to bolster our opinions. I was very impressed with the straight talking and reasoned Mr. Horowitz. The forceful grandstanding by some I find simply distracting and degrading to any meaningful dialogue. We must remember the many convictions and guilty pleas in conjunction with 2016 election that stand in striking contrast to the words "witch hunt."
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I have finished reading much of this report.
I just crossed 70 - and don't get exercised over a lot of things - especially political.
But this report shook me.
The callousness of FBI, it's officers and management to push this probe, investigation - on the thinnest of thinnest evidence - really upset me.
The report written as a summary of all interviews, reviews of paperwork etc - is all good. But it would have been nice if IG had weighed in along the way - what he thought of these decisions.
The "original sin" was that famous conversation with Mr. Alexander Downer - the Aussie ex Foreign minister. He met up with Papadopoulos who told him offhandedly about Russians tipping him off.
But long before FBI latched on to this and opened serious investigation - he had already told FBI covert agents that he was exaggerating.
And that Steele dossier- the IG shows how it was debunked within bureau long before FISA search warrants.
But FBI folks with anti Trump ax to grind - marched on.
If nothing else, Congress should amend FISA to require FBI to have a preclearance from a congressional bi-partisan committee to investigate a political campaign - presidential or any.
I woul prefer a legislative complete ban, period.
This was FBI meddling in our elections and not Russians.
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@Neil The Steele Dossier was passed to the FBI by Senator McCain at the behest of Senator Lindsay Graham. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/sen-lindsey-graham-says-he-told-john-mccain-to-give-trump-russia-dossier-to-fbi/2019/03/25/f35e28ca-4f26-11e9-a3f7-78b7525a8d5f_story.html
How soon everyone conveniently forgets that. Most of that report has not been debunked.
Your suggestion that the FBI should have a preclearance from a congressional bi-partisan committee to investigate a political campaign is ludicrous. We would never have found out about the sins of the Trump campaign and Administration otherwise.
Russians meddled in our elections in 2016 and are today very active in meddling in this one, at the invitation of this President. If it was not so, the President would have allowed his administration to testify at anyone of these hearings and turned over the documents each of the committees requested. They did not, they had something to hide.
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Do you seriously believe that even a bipartisan committee of these Congresspersons could do anything efficiently, wisely, expeditiously, sensibly, and effectively?
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@Neil No. Stop attacking the FBI. It was already exhaustively confirmed that Russia did and still is meddling in our elections. Trump would not be president otherwise and he is fulfilling all that Russia desired. You are not paying attention.
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SOrry to seem off task but perhaps there should be a law to defund the FBI until it reaches unattainable benchmarks in criminal justice reform: "ACLB" = All Crime Left Behind. This should lead to a crime free future just as NCLB reformed public education.
Unmet Benchmarks in Criminality would lead to closures of FBI offices in a given region. Agents in the region could be retrained or released based on criminality scores of the local population.
We could make a similar law for healthcare.
Point being nothing is perfect, and top down directed Institutional reforms of career workers by pass-through reformists is likely to do little. Me thinks reforms should have a basis in reality and not politics--reforms should be about reform not re-election.
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Please, please, please, do not allow this to stifle continuing, legitimate investigations into Trump's criminality. If there has been any presidential candidate more in need of investigation, it is Trump.
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