To leave or to stay is another way of putting "be very careful what you wish for as you may receive it".
The UK is in deep trouble whether it wants to admit it or not. Scotland and even Wales may well begin to decide that being part of the UK isn't worth the trouble.
Just want to say, despite the seriousness of the subject matter, well done. Beautiful photo-essay.
11
Scotland might well finally free itself from being the second-class citizen of the UK, under English domination. Ireland is still in the EU, but the 6 counties of Northern Ireland are still under England's control, stuck in the UK & being separated from the EU. Let's see what happens when border crossings are set up between Ireland & Northern Ireland and passports & inspections are required to travel across the border, not to mention what this will do to Intra-Irish trade policies, which will have to be negotiated. England & what will be left of the UK wants to go it alone in a nativist & nationalist frenzy. Let's see what happens the next time they're in trouble & find a dearth of allies to help them.
3
Thanks for providing a visual look at Brexit fatigue. This record adds so much to the ongoing back anf forth text we see every day. The photo-journalism is brilliant!
4
For the last decade, I've called into question whether the United States of America should remain together since the majority of people in several regions of our country are diametrically opposed to improving the quality of life of all Americans. I often think it would have been better if the South (including Texas) has parted ways in 1863.
I often imagine the remainder of the United States would be much like Canada, with single payer health insurance, high quality secular education, well paying jobs and a much higher standard of living.
10
We may hope for another hung Parliament. Perhaps then, a coalition of opposition parties can force a second referendum and allow now-informed-Britains to chose the better course: remain. I have watched a lot of debates, and I have concluded that both Johnson and Corbyn are equally odious. In the past, times of crisis have summoned great leaders, Winston Churchill among them. At the moment, crisis has summoned great deceivers.
2
Warden Point, Sheppey (pictured) is at the mouth of the Medway Estuary and has an interesting American connection. It's near the final resting place of the SS Richard Montgomery. Built by the St Johns River Co. at Jacksonville, Fla. she was one of the famous Liberty Ships that kept Britain supplied during WW2. Loaded with munitions at Philadelphia, she sailed to take part in D-Day operations but, due to a habourmaster's error, ran aground 20 August 1944 in the Medway approach channel and began to break up. The nature of the Montgomery's cargo made her too dangerous to salvage.
In addition to white phosphorus, detonators and so on, the Richard Montgomery is still thought to contain 1,500 tons of unstable TNT - likely to cause very severe damage and loss of life to the nearby Medway towns, should it detonate. Nobody knows what to do with the wreck, so it remains there still, festooned with warning markers and buoys.
She foundered on a sandbank and at very low tide, the Montgomery's masts become visible in the nearby towns - an enduring, but unwelcome, monument to Anglo-American brotherhood.
8
What floors me is the grim fatalism. “People say, ‘We voted, so it has to happen, no matter the consequences.’” But it was a fraudulent Brexit campaign. And a nonbinding referendum.
13
What an amazing photo essay, even if it makes parts of the UK seem more like the developing world.
I'm surprised your reporter-photographer didn't cover Cornwall, one of the UK's poorest regions, which despite receiving almost £1 billion in EU funding voted to Leave.
One of the many lies spread across Cornwall by Boris Johnson, Nigel Farage and their ilk is that the EU's Common Fisheries Policy has “destroyed” the British fishing industry or “halved” the number of British fishermen. In fact, the British industry remains one of the most successful in the EU. The "quotas" (of cod and haddock, for example) that many Cornish fishermen blame on the EU were set by scientists after overfishing by British fisheries helped stocks fall to dangerous levels in the late 1990s.
Will the UK remain united? Will the US remain united? As long as disinformation is allowed to spread as truth, as long as scientific facts are ignored as inconvenient, I remain pessimistic about both countries.
9
The referendum should had been weighted according to the age of the voters. As the outcomes put the future of the UK at stake, Why the oldest population should decide about its fate?
3
Andrew, I just love it. The angles. The timing. The light. The significance. Great work.
7
How to create a new world order.
Step one: Dismantle the old one.
Step two: Create new roads to Rome.
Step three: Put everyone on the roads.
Step four: Place tolls on the roads.
Step five: When profits go down, repeat.
2
Britain's problem is difficult to solve because of the basic paradox they face.
Even though a majority of Britons now think that it would be better to remain in the European Union and the vote to leave was a mistake driven by misinformation, propaganda and false promises, at the same time according to the same polls also believe that the result of the Brexit referendum must be respected.
From the questionable promises or lies from Boris Johnson or another set of promises or lies from Jeremy Corbin, they probably need to find a third alternative to achieve what they desire.
Good luck!
4
I had discussions this fall with Brits aboard the Queen Mary 2 about Brexit. They probably skewed wealthier and older.
Most favored Leave, or grudgingly accepted Stay as the lesser of two evils. The main complaint: Bananas. Yes, Bananas, specifically a EU regulation that prescribes the precise curvature that a banana must have to be allowable for trade in the EU. They see the EU banana regulation as a symbol of overreaching EU bureaucracy, which they described as "Unelected and Unaccountable".
4
And the myth of banana regulation was utterly false, promoted in the media by Brexiteers to foster the notion of EU micromanagement. The Brits you met on that cruise need to change their news sources.
3
Thank you for pictures of ordinary Brits going about their lives. Though unintentional, usual press coverage here gives casual readers incorrect images of a Britain composed of Canary Wharf, politicians in expensive suits, glamorous entertainers, and of course the royal family. These pictures helped me understand how ordinary people might favor Brexit.
6
Dear me.......Such doom and gloom!!
I still don't believe that we'll leave the EU. And I don't pick up on the disaster vibe that the author of this piece is so determined to convey.
It's going to be OK, just watch!
5
Oh, human hypocrisy at its best is found here: too many foreign immigrants “would dilute or alter national and regional identities built up over centuries.” Out of the mouths of colonists, whose own culture has invaded and forever changed so many other cultures and societies.
19
As I found during my London life 30 years ago, there is something masochistic in the British character. Perhaps it began with the Dark Ages and was deepened by the Battle of Hastings. Perhaps it has something to do with how Britain persevered during the Nazi bombings - how they huddled together and hunkered down. Perhaps it's the lack of a general civil war such as France and America experienced, which enabled them to re-define who they were as a nation. Despite its great industrial age, Britain is deeply skeptical about "progress," preferring to "muddle through." And, yes, for all the imperial prowess, they are essentially an inward, island nation, congenitally suspicious of foreigners (including "Yanks"). That they cling to their purely symbolic, vastly expensive, papier-mache monarchy as the glue that holds things together, says it all.
7
@Charles Michener
There is a degree of truth to what you say, although scepticism and 'muddling through' are virtues in many minds. However the royal family is not as popular as many outside the country think - about 50% strong support and the rest opposed or indifferent according to a recent poll. I am not suggesting for a moment that the UK will be become a republic any time soon but don't assume the flag wavers represent the whole country.
7
A new study finds 4.5 million UK children living in poverty .... the number of children living in poverty will soar to a record 5.2 million over the next few years. This is not immigrants. It's the Conservative radical free market policies of the last four decades.
10
My earliest known white European American ancestor was born in London in 1613 then married in Virginia in 1640 where he died in 1670.
I am a staunch Anglophile by nature. And I am horrified by the Brexit farce wrought by David Cameron, Theresa May and Boris Johnson.
At the same time in the spirit of droll British humor I am all but certain that this will be depicted as another imperial dramatic triumph on Masterpiece Theater.
When parliamentary democracy can deliver a buffoon like Boris Johnson and a constitutional republic of divided limited different power of united states can birth a fool like Donald Trump you have to blame the people who voted for and elected them to office.
Neither man ran covert stealthy subtle campaigns.
14
Welcome to our Monty Pythonesque life of absurdity -- respect the vote that a majority no longer wants even though that vote was not legally binding and was perverted by politicians' lies and social media hysteria.
No wonder many of us are actually hoping for a hung parliament, as a way to somehow start from scratch again -- because Brexit, which before the referendum was not topmost of concern for most people, can only be defined as voluntary self-strangulation.
5
I’ve lived here 16 years now. A lot has changed. But I would not agree that the majority of Brits want the 2016 referendum result to be honoured, even the ones who voted leave. I don’t know where the NYTimes got that narrative from.
A lot of second thoughts around, but the (mostly) conservative press won’t give them much circulation. Sort of a parallel to the U.S. climate. Makes us sad.
15
Surely the root of this is that the UK and the Continent never really saw eye to eye on whether the EU should be a de facto superstate. If it had simply been an economic union - a free trade area - then Brexit would not have happened.
It is a shame that, in the run-up to the Brexit referendum, that the EU did not accede to watering down the freedom of movement and role of the ECJ. Had it done so, the referendum would likely have failed.
I other words you would prefer freedom of movement for capital, but not for labor.
1
Wonderful photos by Andrew Testa, and very effective that you display them so large. I learned a lot just looking through the images.
8
I voted remain and firmly believe a second referendum is justified. The first one was held without sufficient information such as the fact that the Good Friday Agreement precluded any form of Brexit which required border posts and therefore the U.K. or Northern Ireland couldn’t leave the customs union with the many practical implications that has. Neither was there any outline of which of the myriad forms of Brexit would be pursued. Furthermore there has been no consultation with the people on any form of possible Brexit only diktats from one political party. And then of course there were all the lies. Any remainer who now thinks we should honour the vote does so because they’ve been bludgeoned into so doing. The U.K. has been the victim of an “anti-elitist” coup led by elites. It’s our fault. We let it happen. Low information voters beaten by austerity into voting against their own self interest have fallen for the con. But they have only themselves to blame for their lack of awareness. It’s a tragic turning inwards which will lead to the break up of the U.K. and hard times for most of those who voted to leave. No politician of the right (and some on the left ) has made sensible attempts to work this through with the opposition. At the very least the opposition parties in the last parliament could have made a successful attempt to get a second referendum but they failed their country as much as the Tories have done. I’m very angry.
92
@Michael
Let's not forget that the Leave campaign also cheated in the referendum. A massive electoral fraud involving huge, illegal, overspending - concealed through a complex. pre-meditated criminal conspiracy. This has been determined to the judicial standard (beyond all reasonable doubt) by Parliament's statutory electoral regulator.
Nothing has been done because of energetic suppression by the ruling Conservative party - the reason that the police have simply failed to take any action (other than stalling and prevarication), despite having had the evidence for more than two years, is yet to emerge.
Many thought that the Intelligence Services' report into Russian manipulation of the Brexit vote might finally force into view the 2016 electoral fraud perpetrated on the British people but, no, Johnson's government have so far refused to release the report citing 'national security' - an argument dismssed by MI5 and MI6 themselves as utterly bogus.
11
Brexit is a big historical disaster. Europe and the EU have helped a continent with many wars in recent centuries to decades of peace and prosperity. In everyday life, Europeans benefit from the many advantages of free travel, free commerce, high health standards and inexpensive phone calls, just to name a few. Myths about excessive bureaucracy are often exaggerated and instrumentalised to strengthen nationalist attitudes against the EU. Nationalism has brought much misfortune to the continent (and the world). Most Europeans regret the Brexit. And the overwhelming majority of the British youth want to stay in the EU. Most of them were still too young to vote in June 2016.
74
Technological advances of the last century has rendered the concept of 'nations' as independent entities an anachronism. What one nation does to its water supply or quality of air it does to nations everywhere. WWII was the last war in which one nation could attempt to wreak havoc upon another without affecting itself geographically or economically. Will humankind be able transition from longstanding medieval concepts of separate nations to the 'planetary consciousness' required to survive is the great question of our time. Our very future depends on our response.
10
@mark
The answer would be "no." There is nothing I see that would lead one to believe we have any chance whatsoever. We are going down, but the planet will be much better off.
6
Powerful story. Sickening situation.
The ‘16 Brexit vote was contaminated by Russian meddling, as was our ‘16 fiasco.
Good luck, Britain.
Wish I could say we had your backs.
24
The irony is that this group inserted themselves so forcefully into the lives of others, around the world, for so long. Uninvited. The sun never sets, blah-blah-blah. Examples? The lack of grace and profound evil with how the partition of India created mega death and destruction after WW2. Another unhappy example is the Boer War. Thirty thousand women and children dying in prison camps because the men couldn't be defeated on the battle ground. With a bit of historical insight, the English might be a tad more humble in their bilious view of the demonized "other". You can fix a car engine or a computer but fixing "stupid" is a painful, dubious and time consuming project. "Great" Britain will just remain, after Brexit, another middling theme park on the margins of Europe.
12
This reads like an obituary for the United Kingdom. And perhaps it is.
26
This is the most depressing election of my 70 years on this planet. We have never had such a dreadful choice at the polls. The option is either an amoral liar obsessed with himself or an unreconstructed left wing warhorse from the 1980's whose 36 years in Parliament have achieved precisely nothing. There is only one solution and that is to vote tactically to deny either one a majority. To do otherwise is to give absolute power to extremists of either the left or the right in our first past the post system. This would mean more gridlock and likely another referendum. What is wrong with that? Are people not allowed to change their minds? We generally do at each general election. I'm not exhausted. I welcome further debate on Europe if it will prevent Johnson from crashing us out and bringing the United Kingdom to an end. Scottish, British and European to the end.
36
@Hopeoverexperience
I say learn from the 2016 brexit mistake and move on. Time for a 2nd referendum, especially now that the true consequences have been shown the light of day. Makes for a well informed vote for the people of the UK.
2
Amazing photographs, thank you.
11
The photography is spectacularly haunting, foreboding and creepy. The hollowed out eyes on some people appears Appalachian but not European. The dichotomy was obviously the cash machine called "The City of London" however without any cultural connection to Littlest England anywhere else in the Isle. Yet, the story seems, "over" - as reason and rationality left the barn years ago. Obviously the accident was not the decrepit aspect of Jolly England but the absurdity of (The City of London) landlocked in British Appalachia with a terrible down-trodden mentality that produces children to aspire to be draymen.
10
@terry brady
I agree with what you say and the analogy with Appalachia is vivid (albeit these people have health care etc ) but there is nothing in the piece reflecting the comfortable lives of those in between the two extremes. It is, for all its truthful depiction of lives in the geographical fringes of the nation, not the whole picture. The UK may be divided by opinion, opportunity and income but it really can't be reduced to a dichotomy (as you put it).
2
@Martin
Sorry, the dichotomy is in respect to "The City of London", soon to be split into pieces with some moving to The Netherlands or even Berlin. Otherwise, the UK is Jolly England as the finance center never belonged there. It was an accident of geography and cleverly crafted laws that were artificial and contrived. That windfall seems destined to go to fertile international locations without the call for draymen whatsoever.
Wonderful photos and essay of a dreadful mess. I'm beginning to believe anarchists had the right idea.
4
As a European from a neighboring nation i can only hope the Brits know what they do and that this is what they truly want. It is never too late to reverse a wrong decision. Or to stick by the right one.
On behalf of continental Europe, if you choose to stay you are more than welcome. We missed you already. If you choose to leave we wave you goodbye, you will be dearly missed. But don’t expect any presents, not now, not ever. We will have to prioritize our own interests above yours. Just like you do. We nevertheless wish you well.
44
“No man is an island, entire of itself. Every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main.”
It is not only geological foundations that bind you, but philosophical and legal ones as well. Post-war Britain understood this lesson of history: how have you forgotten it after such hard fought battles? Stay strong with Europe. The world depends on it!
Pp
21
The significance of American media coverage of the UK election is that it offers a preview of how our media would or could deal with the similar danger of a Socialist government taking power, in the event of Senator Sanders being chosen as the Democratic nominee. . . . On one hand, like Bernie Sanders, Jeremy Corbyn and his youthful movement present a dire threat to the Establishment. On the other hand, the media have worn themselves out ridiculing the uncouth reactionary faux-populist in power (Trump, Boris). The solution--for the media--will be a "plague on both your houses" approach, much decrying of the "dismal choices" being offered us, etc. . . . . Working people have learned that, in the crunch, the liberal bourgeoisie will ally with the reactionaries they denounce, rather the working-class, whom they fear.
3
“Danger “? Investing our tax dollars in our health care would pose a “danger”? Giving our youth an opportunity for higher education or vocational education would pose a “danger”?
But rendering health care and higher education too expensive for most Americans is not a “danger” at all.
Brexit is part of England's long march to obscurity and irrelevance. That's probably overstating it a bit, but it's not far off.
Brilliant pictures!
16
As an American with European ancestry in 2 continental European Countries, I found my relatives chafing at their watered down sense of national identity and of complex EU laws in addition to their own. Britain never took on the euro and as a country apart geographically form the continent seemed to be further from the EU than the rest of the members. With that said, the reasons of fears that drove voters to leave the union in the first place should have been honored rather then put this proud nation under so much grieve. I wish them the very best what ever occurs today
6
@Other I'm sorry your relatives feel that way. For me, I see no contradiction in being a German AND a EU citizen. A New Yorker can be a New Yorker and a Texan can be a Texan. And both are US citizens without their different origins being watered down. That’s how I feel.
8
@Michael
I agree the EU has brought peace and prosperity to a beaten continent. The EU has been a blessing for the continent and an example for other societies.
5
Brexit is a Nationalistic bandaid for a situation requiring more sober thought of what is actually present and outcomes that are to come to the UK and all Nations of the World. It is the result of failing to look at reality using insecurity and memories of the past to overrule an uncertain future. From a distance, the choice today for UK Voters appears to be a situation of selecting a driver to drive a cart that has been placed in front of the horses. With a choice of 2 very different drivers, the selection will be made, but progress won't be made until a fundamental change has been made. It appears that three and a half years ago, voters were tasked to decide a situation based on less information available with bad information mixed in by groups more interested in themselves than what is good for a people and it's future. I may be too close to our own situation here, but our own two drivers are in the mud fighting while the horses stand behind the cart and our future travels by us nontheless.
10
As a EU citizen who has only lived in the UK for a few years what is fascinating is how little the EU and Europe is known and understood in this country despite being so near. It is almost as if the country was geographically located on the other side of the planet. The media also covers very little news from eu countries other than when there is some comment made by European politicians on brexit. There seems to be little to no interest in understanding of how others countries or societies organize themselves and tackle issues that many countries have in common. The disinformation on the influence of the EU however is quiet widespread. On top of that the 2nd world war is treated as if it happened 10 years ago rather than 80 years ago to the point of that it comes across as an obsession. There is also a very interesting combination of a very friendly kind attitude to each other including foreigners living here and an extremely high level of confidence in being British which can come across as quite arrogant. Ironically you often hear people say that the UK needs to be more confident in its own abilities. There is no rational argument for brexit on the basis of economics and even on the basis of sovereignty but there is the argument of the heart. I suspect that even many of those who voted to remain in 2016 managed to keep their eye on the rational arguments and just suppressed their true feelings. It comes across as a truly insular country living in its own echo chamber
31
@HJ I love visiting the UK and people there are much kinder than in Germany. The way you explain the British attitude towards themselves and the EU is exactly how it appears to me as a foreigner.
7
@HJ It saddens me to say this, but your assessment of my country is spot on.
7
@HJ
Thank you, you put it very well if I may so (as another foreign resident of the UK).
2
I was fortunate to visit Scotland earlier this year. Two cab drivers and a retired financial advisor from London told me they were adamantly opposed to Brexit. Hats off to Mr. Testa for the photographs accompanying this article.
26
While it’s regrettable for the EU and the UK to split; people should realize that elections bear consequences. For years demagogues told British citizenry that they can have their cake and eat it too. Let’s be very clear this is not a decision resulting from rational reasoning but the expression of decades of xenophobic frustrations and economic stagnation.
17
@FCH It wasn't an election, but a referendum, which they rarely have nor were the consequences explained in any rational way. Time after time, voters on both side have said they were surprised by the outcome.
1
Technically this is a Brexit election, that is the sole reason why it was called. Parliament has essentially become increasingly dysfunctional over the past three years since the referendum. As polls stand there appears to be only two possible outcomes, either the Conservatives will win a narrow majority and will be able to push through with their Brexit agreement or it will be a hung parliament and British politics will continue to be dysfunctional for the foreseeable future. We will know tomorrow.
19
@Trevor Downing
The Brexit issue is not going away Trevor whatever the outcome of the election. Even if Johnson wins and manages to push through the WA there will years of negotiating the subsequent trade agreement while the UK will be legally locked into the commitments made in the WA (contributions, Irish border etc.). And so business has another lengthy period of uncertainty and it's on the detail of the trade agreement that the future of large tracts of the UK economy depends. The British auto industry for example (which I know very well) is imho pretty much doomed under any trade scenario and the financial services and pharmaceutical industries of which I have some second hand knowledge are going to take a serious hit. This election is just the second act of one of those endless Greek tragedies.
24
Interesting photos that portray mostly a rather worn and shabby aspect of Britain. A picture is worth a thousand words it is said but a picture can also tell only one part of a story. Unemployment in Britain is low compared to Europe. New, stylish houses are springing up in towns and villages, a different and more affluent picture than that portrayed in some of these photos. London is seen by many of us as a foreign land, culturally, racially and politically unrelated to us.
Knife murder in London is endemic as various ethnic groups fight over territory. This is the growing story in many of our big cities.
We need to control our own destiny once more. Britain should not be a one stop shop for all and sundry.
We do not need to be just another state of a United States of Europe. We do not need a European army to which we would have to contribute. We support NATO and pay our full contribution unlike France and Germany. We do not need to be contributing to the gravy train of Brussels. We voted by a one and a third million majority to leave the EU. That was not a narrow margin as some claim. Democracy demands that Brexit happens.
14
@midenglander, most of the UK looks delapidated compared to mainland Europe. Housing in britain is some of the worst, build after outdated standards from the Victorian age and resulting in shoddy, mouldy barracks the size of a phone booth. London is rich because it's where the money went, outside London there are many areas that are as run down as the NHS which is a national embarassment.
The referendum wans't democratic. First, it was advisory. Also, democracy doesn't mean "Rule Of Majority" or completely ignoring the opinion of those that "lost", democracy is a representation of all voices in a way that considers all votes. But being a parliamentary monarchy that uses the undemocratic First Past the Post voting system certainly explains why the true meaning of "democracy" is hidden to many Brits.
Besides, only 34% of the voting population voted for BREXIT which is hardly the majority, and most of the ones voting for it were Boomers who talked about a "war spirit" they never had to show themselves and who are, on general, pretty ignorant about the EU and what it does and how Britain benefits from being a member.
BREXIT was a vote where the Gullible where taking for a ride by the Establishment. What a joke of a country.
15
@midenglander London is the powerhouse of England's economy, is peopled by immigrants or the immediate descendants of immigrants and voted overwhelmingly to remain.
The bulk of the leave vote was a protest against austerity.
Your statement "We need to control our own destiny once more" is genuinely bizarre and is an example of how paranoia is at the heart of the Brexiteer world view. The EU laws the UK agrees to are limited to free trade and related issues. The truly significant issues - how much to spend on education, the NHS, defense budget, foreign policy - are almost entirely the UK's to decide. The UK will always be tied to the rest of Europe, but once again it will be looking in as a supplicant rather than help guiding it's future.
19
@midenglander You make claims that you don't support with evidence. Endemic knife crime in London? Prove it with numbers. Compare them with the stats of knife crime over the last decade and compare them with gun crime and murder with blunt. instruments. EU gravy train? Prove it. How different are the salaries and benefits of EU civil servants and MPs compared with those working in the home countries? Do you know what they are? If not how do you know it's a gravy train?
I know. Because the Daily Mail, Daily Express and right-wing politicians, like Boris Johnson, say so and you believe them without question. And yet we all know Johnson tells lies almost every time he opens his mouth - his relative say so as do those he has worked for - he was sacked twice for lying.
6
Since the referendum in 2016, nearly 3 million have died,nearly 2 million have turned 18, the legal age to vote in the UK. For the Scottish referendum the voting age was 16 and for the election of Johnson as PM the age was 15 and the total eligible Tory party membership 180 000. To continue with Brexit is a travesty of democracy. There should be a second vote with a qualifying age of 16 for the decision to be truly representative.
19
If that one doesn't work, do a third referendum with 14 year old voting. Probably can get the results you want eventually.
4
@JerseyGirl
It was not a binding referendum. That alone allowed people to protest vote. Not happy with x,y, and z, here’s a chance to show those politicians in London what you really think.
What should have happened is a legal binding referendum with actual thoughtful and more importantly truthful debates. Instead nothing but political show boating.
1
Brexit is partly about many Britons antipathy to "foreigners" living in their midst, supposedly being a burden on the Health Service, depriving indigenous Brits of places in schools, social housing, and taking welfare payments.
Some of these complaints are justified, but almost all EU citizens who live in Britain contribute to the wealth of the UK.
People from some ex empire countries, perhaps not so much. However, we have always had the power to restrict immigration from non EU countries, but have chosen not to do so.
The point being that the problems immigrants pose are largely of our own making not the EU's who it is convenient to blame
Taking back control is a mantra peddled by Leave.UK before the 2016 ref.. Before the referendum, most people saw the EU as overall positive. (free movement, frictionless trade, a giant market on the doorstep
So it's no surprise that the young (on whom our future depends) voted heavily to remain in the EU.
The old still hark back to Empire and how Britain "won" WW2. The old look at Germany and resent its' success. They also forget that had it not been for the USA (and indeed Russia) Britain would have lost
Logic says the UK should be part of Europe, but vested interests mounted a campaign to give Leave a slender majority.
The rest is history
52
@Richard, it's not the really "old" (i.e. those that least experienced the end of WW2 themselves) which wanted out (those who lived through these times all know that it's better to work together), it's mostly Boomers who lived through an era of good jobs and who amassed decent pensions who voted out. And not enough of them have died to change the picture I'm afraid.
Also, Britain could have limited EU immigration as well but was the only EU member state who made not use of it.
8
don't blame the older people. at the Remain marches older people were there in greater numbers than the young even though it was not a working day for most. but the oldies go out to vote in greater numbers
5
@Richard Terrific comment. I agree with every word.
2
England and Mr. JOhnson are not holding a whole lot of hole cards. The UK's biggest exports are oil & gas, pharmaceutics, tobacco & alcoholic beverages. The EU & the rest of the world are competitively well stocked in all of these. With Brexit, the City of London will lose most of its significant EU centric financial business to Dublin, Frankfurt, Paris and Amsterdam. Scotland will surely hold another referendum in the near term and, on separation, break over to join the EU. Other than a lot more leisure time, coupled with less foreigners on their soil, it is unclear how this makes England - let alone Wales or Northern Ireland - better off.
49
@Joe Miksis - after Brexit there will not be fewer immigrants, they will just not be from the EU. Brexit is built on a pack of lies, fantasy and self delusion.
12
@Joe MiksisCertainly we have little leverage on the EU when negotiating an FTA. However we have more than we had when negotiating the Withdrawal agreement. We export £291B to them our biggest market by far, and import £357B
With numbers as big as that, both sides need a good FTA.If we lose financial business, it is more likely to be to the USA or Frankfurt. However, the EU shows signs of recognising the value of London as a global hub for finance.
Indeed Brexit is likely to see the splitting up of the UK. A united Ireland is likely (let us hope it does not cause too much bloodshed this time), and a scottish ref.
My feeling is that Scotland will not leave.
Believe me there will not be less foreigners. We need them to do work Brits don't want to do and the NHS would stop if you reduce the number of foreign staff.
BTW
Here are Britain's biggest hard exports
Machinery including computers: US$72.3 billion (14.8% of total exports)
Vehicles: $54.6 billion (11.2%)
Gems, precious metals: $47.4 billion (9.7%)
Mineral fuels including oil: $43.7 billion (9%)
Pharmaceuticals: $30 billion (6.2%)
Electrical machinery, equipment: $28.8 billion (5.9%)
Optical, technical, medical apparatus: $19.1 billion (3.9%)
Aircraft, spacecraft: $19 billion (3.9%)
Plastics, plastic articles: $12.3 billion (2.5%)
Organic chemicals: $11.3 billion (2.3%)
5
@Joe Miksis
Movement in the financial sector will have an adverse effect on London and the UK in general. The EU will find solutions to their financial markets and needs independent of London.
4