Is minding your own business not an option? Or do thought police never get a day off?
58
I have to wonder how LW#2 got the job of sorting all mail delivered to her address and then hand-delivering the landlord's mail to him. This seems very over-involved to me. Couldn't your objection to touching a magazine -- whose contents is None of Your Business -- be resolved simply by you taking your mail and leaving the landlord's for him to pick-up himself? Or get permission to put up your own mailbox, so your mail isn't tainted by content you find loathsome.
22
@Jennene Colky ...Insofar as sorting and placing the landlord's mail in a place convenient for him is being a thoughtful "good neighbor" I am in a similar situation whereby I sort and question the other three tenants if certain mail belongs to them., or is mis addressed.
Coincidentally I have the only doorbell, which first time visitors for the other tenants and delivery persons will ring. So far it has not been an inconvenience. I notify them with a smile. Consequently we all do small favors for one another, just to be the "good neighbor".
9
No, it isn't ethical to "do something about" someone who may have characteristics that you may not like. No, neither of you get approval for your desire to tell other people what to do.
48
@jlb Agree ... LW#2, as stated, you are renting in "one of the most expensive places to live in the U.S. We have lucked into an exception-to-the-norm situation". And, you are busybodying into what the landlord might be reading? Time to develop a hobby that doesn't involve delivering mail.
38
Wait, they are good tenants and the landlady asks them to recommend their friends to fill vacancies, therefore the landlady is a racist and should be reported?? Are we assuming the landlady couldn't find white tenants (if that's what she's looking for) on her own and she needs them to do it? Maybe she just wants people who come recommended by people that she already knows are good tenants? I'll bet you anything the letter-writer is a good progressive who fears that Trump will create a police state. No need, we're doing it ourselves.
91
@JerseyGirl Exactly right.
18
@JerseyGirl Trump will indeed create a police state but you're also right here. I noticed the language "we've come to believe that she harbors significant gender and racial biases" but nothing to substantiate that belief and an acknowledgement that they "can't point to a particular incident" of the supposed biases.
29
That tenant who doesn’t want to recommend her building to friends has what should be called “rent privilege.”
To be sure every reader is envious.
A little curiosity about the owner’s life experiences and background, especially the fact that she doesn’t seem bitter about having under market tenants, could be an interesting exercise for you.
21
Re: SF MAIL issue: Why not rent a P.O. Box for the tenants’ mail & let the landlord know you’ve done this (w/o explanation since none is owed to the landlord) & that the landlord should retrieve their mail gong forward?
10
"Over the years we have come to believe that the landlord harbors significant racial and gender biases" but "I can't point to a specific incident."
So based on your feelings that you can't substantiate or point to any specific incidents even though you've been living there for years you believe that you have an ethical issue?
I don't see the issue. I do see you as someone who might be needlessly judgmental and someone I would probably not want to interact with either.
You could be right, she could harbor sexist and racial prejudices but based on your letter there is a serious lack of substance.
28
Liberals often think of themselves as open minded and generous. And some are. But many liberal viewpoints can be converted into black and white ideological commitments, creating barriers to both discussion and live and let live tolerance. Of course liberals are not unique in this. We all know shrill conservatives who carry on like jerks.
Wanting to tamper with the mails to prevent a neighbor from receiving media you find offensive is simple to be too full of yourself. The real moral problem here lies within.
38
Have you noticed the glaring omission in your solutions?? Propose a friend as tenant who meets the landlady's prejudiced criteria and see what happens. Surely, YOU have a friend among that group, and, if not, why not, or stop the liberal angst!!!
24
Three words for both sets of tenants. GET OVER IT.
You want to have your cake and eat it. Cordial perfect relations between landlords and neigbours be they owners, renters or sqautters are never movie-like picture perfect with bambi frollicking in the yard. Either put up wth your financial benefits and the discordiality and personal beliefs (however opposed you are to them) or move and find a place with harmony, whatever be the cost to you rent wise.
29
Just hang a second mailbox, problem solved.
2
@Elyse -They can't do that because it is an illegal rental on a property zoned for one. If there are two boxes then the town will know and the LWs will have to leave.
16
As a politically left wing and socially progressive person, I worry about the dictatorship of enlightened virtue that too many woke folks are insisting on. They should not, brother Appiah, be given even tacit aid and comfort. We must learn to live with people of views we don't like --especially given the absence of any real evidence (in either letter) of actual harms done to others.
This dictatorship of enlightened views has helped bring us Trump and will do so again unless we start to think and talk about public policy (which might be uncomfortable for our well off Silicon Valley/LA brethren) rather than private virtue.
47
I get catalogs I don't want from stores I last visited 20 years ago. I get mail for people who have been dead for 10 years, who lived in my house 20 years ago, for people who (apparently) lived in my house so long ago that I have never even heard their names. I have spoken w/ my post-person about this and have been told "I have to deliver mail addressed to this address." It just goes straight into recycling. I also get mail addressed to my next-door neighbor; I take it to her. Moral: mail delivery is a very imperfect process. Let it go.
29
I think that it is dangerous to directly connect someone‘s character to the headlines of his or her subscribed publication and to make any judgement about the first based on the latter (unless this latter crosses the line of the law, for example endorsing child pornography).
24
Everyone harbors some bigotry. Most bigotry is learned from one’s family. You can’t legislate or report it away. I agree with many comments about the sanctimonious renters, who have somehow gotten way below market value housing costs.
24
I'm going to ignore the low rents. That's another, bigger problem. Is it wrong to pay less than other people who can't afford the rents?
More to the point, both examples are of landlords who treat their tenants decently--be they gay, white, Jewish, whatever. What are the examples of racism or homophobia? Is the cause of antiracism here just a little too pure? If I go out of my way to rent to gays and people of color, even poor whites, must I also stop reading and writing whatever I want in the privacy of my home?
Doing matters more than talking, even where talking matters a great deal. That includes the questions the writers ask about what they should do.
16
Interesting how one group has rights and the other only has claims. Just sayin'. Language has become such a minefield in America.
7
Is there a reason why the renter of the rent-controlled apartment has no friends in the racial or gender biased groups to suggest when asked to refer prospective tenants?
11
Since when is being a Christian and having differing views such an offense? How about we mind our own business? Is that so tough to figure out.
32
For the great deal the renters in The Bay Area are getting, and they know it, why not use some of that 'financial rewards' and spend it on your very own P.O. Box at The Post Office or your local UPS Store? I'm thinking for what, $200.00 a year, maybe less, you can have your own private box. Thinking of how to explain it to your landlord is on you. OR, why not put 2 mailboxes marked 'Smith' and 'Lowenstein', right next to or atop one another? I know that I would NEVER want someone going through MY mail, no matter what the savings might be.
17
#1. Landlords like it when their reliable paying tenants refer people, because they are also likely to be reliable paying tenants. Do you have any evidence that if you referred a nonwhite friend, they’d be rejected?
10
Oh, gawd. The problems of the first world!
My sympathies.
34
The situation with the "shared " mailbox is quite possibly illegal. The adjacent space may not have a certificate of occupancy as a separate living unit. The application of sunlight
on this situation is likely to harm both parties.That being said
I would stop handling the landlords mail and consider getting a PO Box for yourself.
11
“she never enfages me directly due to her sexism." Or she has a sense of your egoism and judgmental nature and has decided you not a very nice person too deal with.
45
Seems the old phrase ‘holier than thou” might fit both letter writers. Not, however, “holier than rent control”.
37
And experts scratch their heads over why so many small landlords will let a unit stand vacant or rent on AirBnB.
15
Both letter writers have too much time on their hands! Consider yourselves quite lucky that you have a nice place to live below market rate and that your landlords are run of the mill regular people. Mind your own business...
36
Has anyone bothered to suggest that our anonymous renter just rent out a post office box? That way, he avoids having to deliver mail he deems offensive (although not really knowing it’s actual content), insures continuation of his cheap rent and can ease his conscience into a comfortable frame of mind. Really, this is what is presented as an ethical dilemma?
18
Or you could just take you own mail and leave his for him pick up on his own. That way you don’t have to touch the offending items.
25
Both of these situations reveal deplorable conditions. The only honorable thing to do is move out! (But please post the addresses here.)
59
Most Evangelical Christians are very supportive of Jewish people and Israel. And mainstream Protestant denominations and the Catholic Church certainly do not preach Anti Semitism. I can’t help wondering whether the tenant who does not like the fact that his landlord receives Christian magazines is not the bigot.
39
It is helpful to realize many long time residents are in no position to pay current market rents, the same as other demographics in our community. Yes, it is developers that must be regulated, and as important, to question our values as a society - a diverse community or land grabs by wealthy with threats of moving all away.
5
After decades of major problems with property managers and neighbors, we decided the best thing was to move out, out, out to an area where we could live in a single family home with land around us. This may be an option, if #1 is willing to sacrifice the city. Otherwise the First Amendment probably applies and you will have to put up with it. We have been so much happier without these stresses that I can't recommend a move highly enough. It's called freedom.
9
@kay We now spend half the year in Portugal and half in China. Such a pleasure to be free of the vicious climate of the US.
Oh, and in Portugal we have a beautiful house in a beach town with a large garden and orchard.
In beautiful Hangzhou, the destination of Marco Polo, we get to enjoy city life.
3
Anyone find it interesting that in BOTH #1 and #2 the renters admit they are getting a GREAT deal on their rent, and do NOT want to give up the GREAT rent?
Both examples show the hypocrisy of how some people who say they dislike something don't walk the talk and put their money where their mouth is.
If you want the lower rent in exchange for not discussing your concerns with the landlord you are complicit in the very thing you say you hate.
52
@Beth Grant DeRoos how would giving up their current positions to do anything to further the cause of a just society? I agree with the Ethicist that their concerns could be better addressed by seeking to make positive change.
I wonder if YOU, who seem to imagine yourself morally superior, partake in any of the benefits of our society. Just the mere fact that you have the time, and are able, to read this weekly column demonstrates your privilege.
10
@Dj
How do you see @Beth Grant DeRoos as presenting herself as morally superior? That is really a stretch. I think these tenants should move out if it bothers them that much. They are the ones that act like they are morally superior. There are people all around us who are prejudiced but we just don't know it since mostly these topic do not come up in work or polite conversation. Several of my neighbors are prejudiced and I do live in single family house but I am not looking to convert them to my way of thinking since quite frankly they are not going to change by just talking to me any more than changing the mind of Trump supporters. I keep limited contact knowing we are never going to be having get-togethers anytime soon.
8
They didn’t say they disliked the apartments. Would you have them do an in-depth study of the racial and sexual attitudes of future landlords? It’s hypocrisy if they nod in agreement, not if they stay put.
There seems to be a lot of hostility towards the admittedly punctilious renters. Is it jealousy over the writers’ good deals?
4
One thing about Christians, after all, is that their faith was founded by a Jewish teacher who thought that the core of the Torah was to love God and love your neighbor.
Dear Ethicist - I am so sick of this "thought" coming up whenever there is discussion of Christians and Jews. Jesus is credited with founding Christianity. Leave it at that - If he existed, he or his followers rejected Judaism. Everyone can love G_D (Jews never spell it out in writing) and their neighbors without invoking the Torah and there are many fine Torah scholars who can tell you the core of the Torah may include such concepts but much much more is at it's core. There should be no "discrimination" in Housing period, which is a far off goal, sadly still and may be getting worse today and going forward.
6
@quality
Wrong. Jesus came to fulfill the prophesies of the Jewish prophets (one reason), He certainly did NOT reject Judaism.
4
Dear Quality,
Thank you SO much for expressing this. Thank you 1000 times. Thank you
Also, Jesus is not the founder of Christianity, the romans are. And if he knew what Christians did in his name during these past 2000 years he’d be absolutely appalled. The romans basically appropriated an eastern religion and reimagined it for their own political purposes. Think of it as the yoga of its day.
2
American millennial culture 101: feeling entitled to live in a rent-subsidized apartment AND feeling self-righteous about others' different beliefs at the same time. Can you imagine the 1960's Freedom Riders instead of confronting racism head-on, writing anonymous complaints to Birmingham's Mayor? I wish upon these two letter writers a chance to become landlords in an urban RE market, so they can exercise their high virtues
65
@Larry I am Gen X and assumed the writers are too. People stay in rent controlled apartments forever, so few Millennials have them.
4
Regarding the Los Angeles case, the most ethical thing people living in rent-controlled, under market housing can do is advocate for building more housing in their neighborhoods.
Los Angeles County needs 500,000 new apartments to meet the needs of everyone, including the 60,000 people who are living in tents and vehicles on our streets. It is not ethical to talk about "maintaining neighborhood character" and having a place to park in front of where you live, or to criticize the design of a building that is going to provide housing for 100 people in your neighborhood. "Not in my back yard" is unethical. The millions of renters in Los Angeles County who have rent-stabilized apartments need to speak up on behalf of others who are not so lucky. In Los Angeles, 40% of unhoused people are African-American, while only 11% of the population is African-American. Landlords pick middle-class white tenants. That's racism, and if you are not actively supporting building new apartments on your block, you are complicit.
11
@abstract668 As you probably know an enormous number of luxury apartments stand vacant. Just as useful would be to advocate for a vacancy tax, vacancy control, and an increase in rent control and social housing in LA. When development occurs, generally people with RSO are evicted as property values rise, and they are displaced to faraway communities or lose housing altogether. It's obviously not the case that unhoused people get to live in the new housing that's built. Market rate housing in LA is just not affordable to anyone but the upper-middle class & above, and building more units is not the most effective way to bring rents down.
6
@RL
Many cities are unaffordable these days and I am sure many smaller towns and suburban areas will be in the same situation soon enough. Developers reap huge profits by building luxury housing and not middle and low cost housing. It will only get worst while basic wages are not enough to afford decent housing near to your job. Just read at the NYT stories about wealthy New Yorkers buying a second home in the suburbs and farm land in upper NYS while other folks are struggling with rent that take up a good portion of their income leaving less to live on. A real divide in our country with no solution given the greed and politics of our time.
3
I, too, have a racist and sexist landlord. I once saw him violently shove an older Asian lady for collecting cans out of our trash. Over time, it's also become obvious that he has a drinking problem. One night he got into an argument with a neighbor at 4:30 a.m. and when I asked them to quiet down, he spent an hour heckling us below our open window, telling us our lease "was up" and we were "outta here." The next morning his wife told me to ignore it.
It's honestly been a nightmare but it costs thousands of dollars to move in NYC, so we're stuck until we can save for a deposit, fee, truck, etc.
Sometimes racists and sexists can be otherwise tolerable, but I find that many times their inability to open their minds in these situations is a sign of a larger need to control and an intolerance of people with whom they do not completely share a worldview. God forbid you are to share your own views with such a person. Meanwhile, they feel completely at ease pontificating, assured that they are in the right. This spills over into other aspects of their lives. When it comes to the home they own and rent out, it can get stifling if you have the wrong person.
It really depends on the person, but my advice is tread lightly and find a more autonomous living situation. Moving is an immense pain, but the fear and, more often, awkwardness we deal with isn't worth the slightly cheaper rent.
6
@Annie B. If the women he shoved were not Asian or was a man would that cause you to "rethink" your position. It sounds like he just simply did not want anyone going through the trash.
6
Amen to all those who replied, Mind Your Own Business.
Might there not be an unlimited number of situations that might possibly offend? PETA magazines and Furrier catalogs requiring one to scan the front cover before putting in the correct pile? Magazines touting how to kill, dress and prepare wild game having to be touched by Vegans? Dog lovers having to handle Cat Fancier magazines. ;-)
If the reader finds it too offensive to have to quickly scan the ADDRESS, then perhaps they might figure out a way to time their mail pick-up that results in their neighbor doing the icky handling/sorting.
42
@Marlene
Love your answer
7
What mail anyone gets is none of your business. What anyone thinks, but doesn’t express in front of you, is none of your business.
And while recommending friends, I hope you consider which of them most needs a financial break on rent rather than just benefiting from a “good deal “. That would be a good moral choice.
48
The Bay Area resident who shares a mailbox may be, likely is in an illegal rental situation or else they would have a separate mailbox and address. Its a bit foolhardy to jeopardise this situation but they should also clarify their tenancy status - for example they may be up a creek if current owner sells and eviction is not a problem if there is no legal occupancy to begin with.
LA person should investigate their legal status, is in no way obligated to recommend friends. Los Angeles consists of many municipalities each with own rent control regulations. Some permit the landlord to raise the rent to market value when a renter leaves a unit and some limit that. Meanwhile count your blessings. https://la.curbed.com/2018/6/4/17302800/rent-control-los-angeles-rules-guide
3
Am I the only one who finds the first letter-writer awfully judgmental, self-righteous, and even vaguely creepy? Evidence for the landlord's attitudes is thin at best, so the writer's desire to report the landlord to somebody in authority seems more a reflection of the writer's animus than any demonstrable commitment to social justice. Unless there's a lot more to this than the writer proves, Ann Landers' old-time advice applies: MYOB.
75
Understandably, the letter writers are concerned about their landlords' perceived bigotry. But I'm beginning to realize that liberals, for want of a better descriptive noun, can be imbued with the missionary spirit to convert. By the way, the woman who has reminded her landlord that she is Jewish when he used the term "jew him down" probably needs to explain to him that it's offensive because it implies that only Jews try to get the best deal or take advantage of others. She may even need to offer a substitute phrase, such as "dicker him down." Unfortunately, the phrase is so ubiquitous that many people really aren't aware of its origins.
13
My first thought on the biased landlady was that the landlady is assuming that the writer agrees with her in that the writer's friends are all people of whom she approves. As the ethicist notes, "You might have reason to feel better, of course, if those friends were more racially diverse". I think the writer should "remove the log from her own eye before trying to remove the splinter" from the landlady's.
17
Hey guess what rent-controlled tenants: if you can't point to a specific example of your discrimination, you won't gain fans on the Internet or in a court of law.
The fact of the matter is, she's allowed to not like you guys. She has done nothing illegal. In fact, she provides you with an affordable living situation.
Sounds like you have a pretty entitled attitude. Just 20 or 30 years ago, it would've been a lot worse for you - it might have been illegal then. I'm not saying that it means she can persecute - or discriminate - but jeez, just think of how far we've come.
Count your blessings and pay your rent, or feel free to move somewhere else.
28
"Name Withheld", How can you accuse anyone of racial bias or sexism without any evidence? She obviously wants new tenants you may know since you have been good tenants for years. And, over the years you have referred friends that she apparently thought were good tenants. It's logical to look to you for referrals as opposed to accepting complete strangers as tenants. Why is that racist? It would be outrageous of you to file a complaint against her. Maybe she likes your partner better than you. Is that sexist?
42
If these are the problems troubling you in this day and age, you need to step up and look at what's really going on in this world.
And maybe do something constructive to help our dying planet instead of these petty concerns.
34
So nobody's landlord is doing anything illegal, but you don't approve of what you think they may (or may not) be thinking. Hmm.. I'll tell you what, why don't you live your own life as the best possible example to the beliefs and morals you hold. After that, mind your own business and stop trying to be the thought police.
59
Have you ever recommended a friend who is a person of color as a tenant? If you have few friends of color, maybe it's worth redirecting your focus?
22
I'm curious what the landlord thinks of you. Would she still rent to you if she knew how you secretly feel about her? Also, are you white and landlord black. Knowing this information would help me figure out where this bias stems from.
12
Why would someone else’s mail be any of your business? Would you like access to his gmail too? Maybe check his voicemail for offensive comments? You don’t need advice, you need boundaries.
57
I note the irony in the cartoon image introducing the topic which is itself ageist. It's a sort of allegory of the times in which we all find ourselves.
14
Do you assume "Name Withheld" is not caucasian?
2
In my opinion, it is best to consider the lessened rent to be a cost of operation for the landlady. In other words, she pays you to allow her to be a bigot. You should not consider a need to change her. You should enjoy her lessened rent as a trade off for her choice to employ the racist outlook. Look at it as economics. My best. Robert.
6
Both of these letter writers need to get a grip on their perceived fragilities, and self righteous indignations. The world doesn’t revolve around their sensibilities and sensitivities. Listen to this lecture by Jonathan Haidt. https://youtu.be/Xi499A4VsN8
19
It's a Federal offense to tamper with the mail. No one can appoint you censor to anyone. Hands off!
27
The one thing that really stands out as unethical to me (but is not mentioned as such) is that the person complaining about bigoted landlady is okay with using a highly unjust and immoral rent control law (that stops property owners from getting market value for rent -- one can't stop unfair laws like that from existing, but one can certainly stop oneself from using them to oppress others.)
13
Didn’t the landlord pay a purchase price based on the existence of that “unfair” law? Why would you want a windfall for the landlord?
3
The best way to lead, in my view, is through example. In both of these cases, I would take it all quite slowly and softly, as you really have no idea what's going on in their heads. (You also need to decide if you really want to know.)
That said, try to treat them and their views with respect. Try to find some commonality. Don't assume the worst. Old people are hard to change and you haven't walked in their shoes. They may have had unfortunate experiences that (sadly and wrongly) caused them to have some of the views that they have.
10
Love the irony of LW1 complaining about the landlady's racism, while having no people of color in their lives to recommend for a sweet rental deal.
24
@Arthur yeah, struck me that way also.
And since he, or she, can’t remember which way this worked, refers to their “partner,“ I’m guessing maybe they are an unmarried couple (unless everyone refers to their spouse as partner these days). So maybe the landlord is OK with an unmarried couple living together… That in itself is a big step from 50 years ago
8
Acquiescence is complicity. But civil discourse is the best remedy. Nancy Pelosi has it right--hate the sin, pray for the sinner.
4
@John M. WYyie II ...oh yeah we see just how successful all this praying is every time it's incited.
Bang...what was that ? Another dead school kid.
Time to pray again.
2
Well, get a little banner made up, something along the lines of stating, 'it takes a village' Hang it where you can glance at it occasionally, its message reinforcing your concerns and priorities
as you go about your business counterbalancing attitudes like those of your landlady. Life is short.
1
To both letter writers: remember the story about the man with the coat, the sun, and the wind. You are far more likely to be effective, assuming you want to be, if you are pleasant, don't illegally throw away the mail, than you will be if you argue the points and not give an inch on your values.
Live for the day when your landlord/lady realizes that not only are you a liberal Democrat, if you are, but actually a nice person. Or realizes you help him/her despite not sharing similar values.
I'm 71, and I've spent far too much of my life arguing with people who aren't going to change their minds no matter what I say. I can still be friends with them. I don't avoid them unless they don't change their minds and don't change the subject. I believe it was Ben Franklin who called that person a fanatic.
5
What is fascinating to me is that in both of these case, you have a young person wanting to either report someone to the authorities for a suspected sentiment that has not crossed over into actual legal violation... or a young person wanting to withhold someone's mail because they don't like the source of the mail. As a progressive who will scowl at the Salvation Army ringer for the inappropriateness of setting up in my gay neighborhood, I can't help but wonder - what ever happened to a difference of opinion? If you seriously feel that nothing short of totalitarian thought control (as long as it's the thoughts you agree with) is the right direction, by all means report away and withhold the mail and stand proud as you're tossed out on the street and priced out of your city. Perhaps you can consider voting for broader rent control reforms, and devoting your free time to canvassing for candidates who will do this as a better use of your time. If you replace the political sentiment alone in these letters, suddenly we're in Trumpland and progressive snowflakes must be punished - or worse. If you don't like your landlord, move.
15
@Elizabeth Much of your letter while informative then is spoiled by your simplified statements regarding politics - MHO of course.
Why "scowl" at the Salvation Army ringer when they support much good even if you don't agree with their position. Like any other organization they can collect funds for what ever causes they believe in. They are indeed "progressive" and self directed.
"In World War II, the Salvation Army operated 3,000 service units for soldiers and sailors, which led to the formation of the USO. Today the Army carries on a wide range of work, including prison visits, disaster response, refugee assistance, addiction and dependency treatment, daycare and children's homes, homeless and domestic violence shelters, thrift stores, hospitals, clinics, and schools. In fact, the Salvation Army is one of the world’s largest providers of social help."
“Progressive” can mean more social programs - which means more governmental control.
I minored in City Government while in collage long ago and did a scholarship program at the Health Department - Division of Aids, Education and Research. I had to "liaison" with 11 diverse agencies to create my report for the Mayor of the City.
I was stunned at the attitude and animosity by one group which supported gay and lesbian persons. It was only until I informed them that my twin brother was gay that we were able to have a dialogue so that I could obtain the information I needed to assist their division.
5
While the letter writers' hearts are in the right place, these seem like imagined problems. The level of hand wringing doesn't match the supposed crimes. Enjoy your low rents and let the guy get whatever mail he gets. Would you want him confronting you over reading the New Yorker just because he disagrees with it? The old lady landlord, she probably won't be alive forever so her bigotry will depart this Earth eventually. Take a deep breath, stay hydrated, and point your energy and caring to more important battles.
9
@Biz Griz You feel that the desire to look for fault where no evidence is given, and censoring the mail of others is "the right place"?
8
Not sure why (except actually I do know why) people feel that all others around them must share in their political beliefs to be allowed to exist around them!
That is what it comes down to. No one here has actively discriminated against or harmed anyone else. Its just that they hold "dangerous" beliefs which MIGHT lead to such a thing at some future time. Therefore they must be stopped, apparently.
How about waiting until they actively break the law in some way to get so exercised?
20
Do these people have nothing important to worry about? While the rest of us worry about the economy, the climate, and the growing lack of civility in daily life, they're concerned about how much guilt they should have about having found what sound like bargain rates for their housing. I'd be delighted to be afflicted with that kind of guilt!!
13
The simple answer to both LW1 and LW2 is to mind your own business. Free speech is a protected right and tampering with the US mail is against the law. I weep for the future if these kinds of ethical questions are becoming the norm.
26
I'm dismayed that Professor Appiah fails to make a crucial point regarding the second letter about the landlord's reading material.
Simply because one reads something doesn't mean one agrees with it--in whole or in pat. A magazine subscription, attendance at a lecture, engagement with a known 'bigot', empathy for those who vehemently disagree with, etc. are NOT endorsements. If Professor Appiah wants to promote reasoned, ethical choices and behavior, based upon what I gather his ethics to be, not only would he have pointed this fact out, he'd actually encourage readers to read texts which they are likely to disagree with. For, is it ethical to disagree with (and judge) people whose positions we don't fully understand?
18
@Good Luck Excellent point. In the past couple of years I have taken to reading magazines with different points of view than my own to get me out of my bubble.
And my own dear late mother in law was a devout Christian in all the positive meanings of that word. I got to see her views evolve over the couple of decades I knew her. I'm guessing some of the publications she got had anti-LGBTQ articles in them, but she only read the items related to devotional and prayer life. And she was the old lady in the church that all the teens and young adults adored and came to talk to about their problems. I know she helped young people struggling with their sexuality, and I am glad she was there for there for them. So, yeah, hard to tell much from mail.
10
My daughter and I were lucky enough to find a rent-controlled unit, astoundingly underpriced, that was across the street from her high scool --- Palo Alto High, one of the top-rated schools in the country.
I could never have afforded to live in this tony neighborhood without this break. The landlady was an eccentric widow of a Stanford professor. But she was a strident "character" and blurted out all kinds of opinions.
One day she was over and was probably anxious to get one of the units ready to rent, and we were helping her.
At one point she blurted that my daughter was "a little Jewish princess" --- which utterly shocked us. We had never discussed religion, of course. I'm Jewish but my daughter's dad is gentile, and she took after him, blue-eyed and fair haired etc. So the landlady must have guessed at her (my) background --- who knows?
I suspected that she knew she had put her foot in her mouth but she never apologized, and I decided to let the matter slide. She was most probably a bigot but I continued to live peaceably in the unit for years after my daughter graduated and went off to a top college (that her quality high school education definitely helped her get into).
The advantage of the location way superseded my need to 'educate' the landlady. I'd have been crazy to confront her or move out on principle!
14
@Trista ironically, perhaps her comment that your daughter was a “little Jewish princess“ was meant to show you that she was open minded.
5
@Dj
Um …. no. Jewish princess is not intended as a compliment, it is a slur.
3
To both LW1 and LW2, I have to agree with Denny's comment. It's often far better (and easier) for a small building landlord to canvas existing tenants when a unit becomes vacant. Pretty much, a lot of the "stuff" LW2 is concerned with involving the mail falls under "mind your own business."
As some of my older relatives would say, "these folks need to get another hobby."
13
Millions of homes and apartments are purposely kept vacant in America, more than enough to solve or significantly alleviate the . affordable housing crisis in many communities. Your first letter touches on why so many owners who could rent don’t rent. A great rule in every relationship is five positives (at least) for every criticism. And sometimes -- often, in fact, looking for and finding what’s wrong is just not worth it for anyone no matter how right we are.
8
@Seth Eisenberg can you provide the source regarding millions of apartments?
1
@Phyllis Sidney https://www.census.gov/housing/hvs/index.html
1
Having lived in the Bay Area in a situation where the landlord and I shared a mailbox, I don’t think letter writer 2 necessarily has the eviction protections you might expect.
In my case, the way the landlord had gone about converting the space was low on permits, thus the city did not acknowledge it. It was thus an illegal unit, affording no protections against, for instance owner move in or removal from the market for repair. It sounds from the description of “landlord choices” that letter writer 2 may be in the same boat. Talk to your city’s rent board or legal aid or a private attorney about your rights before discussing something as controversial as religion with your landlord.
11
My first thought is to talk with her. People of a certain generation sometimes speak without a filter. Not sure if it applies to her but it certainly applied to my father. Hearts and minds can be changed. One of the most beautiful moments for me was hearing my father tell his care-giver, an Liberian immigrant, "You are my good friend". If people have never had the blessing of a friendship with someone who is of a different race or sexual orientation then their comments may simply come from fear. The humanity that connects us all can remove that fear. So invite your friends in and let her get to know them and hopefully one day call them her friends too!
14
Many years ago, when housing in Santa Monica, CA was affordable, a small apartment came vacant in my building. I suggested an outstanding fellow graduate student from UCLA, who happened to be black, to our manager, a young woman who lived in the building and managed it part-time. She was delighted, as it seemed the owner did not really want to rent to African-Americans, but couldn’t legally restrict rentals, and my friend was a perfect tenant. He moved in. As the Ethicist suggests, if we had a more diverse group of friends, there might be other options for tackling bias.
23
From the landlady's point of view, it is much easier to obtain new tenants by word of mouth from trusted existing tenants than it is to open the vacancy up to the public and advertise. The existing tenant has a lot to be grateful for -- they have a bargain, AND they get to choose their own neighbors! The only ethical problem I see here is whether the tenant has the courage of his/her convictions to give up their bargain and move. The article's illustration is misleading. No one appears to be screaming at them. Quite the opposite.
As to the second question, it's illegal to tamper with someone else's mail. As much as I agree with the writer's sentiments, what if someone wanted to "lose" my copy of Church and State or my ACLU bulletin? We can't make these decisions for each other, but we can talk about it.
41
@Denny :
seriously, "the courage of his/her convictions to give up the bargain and move"....why should they? No one has done anything illegal or discriminatory, it is just that someone hold different opinions/ beliefs. (possibly).
5
I enjoyed both answers, thought they were balanced and generous. I feel that care is needed in deciphering moral codes and correctness in our world today. What one person considers out of bounds may not be against the law. If a personal or perceived code of morality stops a relationship, then any financial benefit should be released as well. Money and righteousness, a Molotov cocktail.
12
What the world needs now is ... more civil discourse, especially with people with whom we disagree or think that we disagree, so thank you for speaking up for that, and thank you also for the beautiful comment about what Jews and Christians share.
16
@Larry Berger
You write: ' . . . about what Jews and Christians share.'
Whew! I thought it was just me: I've spoken to many of my Jewish friends and they prefer to be called "Jews", not "Jewish" or "a Jewish person or people".
Therefore: "I am a Jew", "Jesus was a Jewish teacher." Noun and adjective? Don't know about that verb!
(Sorry in advance if I've offended anyone.)
3
@ Passion for Peaches Left Coast Dec. 12
". . . The bad, slimy people open their neighbors’ mail. One of my neighbors has done that to me, opening my financial statements. He is one of the lowest humans I have ever known. And I have made all of my accounts paperless because of him. Just saying."
Is it not a Federal offense to open someone else's mail, even if misdirected? If yes, you could have FBI on your nosy neighbor.
I am sorry that you went paperless -- cyberspace is full of snoopers after others' conficential data.
11
LW2. As long as we have a Constitution which protects our freedom of expression and privacy and a government that doesn't intrude into our thoughts, opinions, and reading, your landlord can have his Christian magazine even though you don't like it. And as long as our fellow citizens are generally fair and open minded, we're safe from intermeddlers who want to censor opposing views. Try to suppress your busybody urges and be a good neighbor and tenant. Just give the guy his magazine, and without the liberal handwringing and sermons.
86
@John
You seem to have missed (or forgotten) that this is not a column about what is legal, but rather what is ethical. You make no ethical claims and do not provide an ethical analysis in your comment.
You might want to consider the consequences of reducing our ethical responsibilities to merely legal prohibitions.
2
@Good Luck Law is often a good starting point for considering questions of ethics. I'm a lawyer, so it's natural for me to to look first to the law when it comes to responsibilities, rights, behavior, and consequences. If you read my answer carefully, you'll see that it goes beyond "legal prohibitions".
What do you think LW2's ethical responsibilities are?
3
LW1 can't cite one example of something racist or sexist that the landlord did, and can only say that there are overheard comments. They can't complain because there is nothing to complain about. But they really think this woman could be bad, so what to do, what to do?
LW2 has no problem renting an illegal apartment ("a small unit adjacent to our dwelling" sounds like a garage), but is worried about breaking a different law. Sure, steal the mail. Cash his checks, too. Or just mind your own business.
When someone says "that guy jewed me down," it is totally proper to remind them that it's inappropriate to say that (even if you're not Jewish yourself). Kudos for addressing it instead of letting it fester.
49
@Eric
The letter writer is renting the house. The owner is in the "adjacent" unit, which may or may not be illegal.
4
In both cases, if the LWs are so upset by their landlords' racism, sexism, etc., they should move. They evidently feel comfortable asking an "ethicist" from the other side of the country to validate their staying. Only they can decide if their moral code is more important than their wallets. The couple living in SanFrancisco is living in an illegal situation that doesn't seem to bother them. That is a local matter. Stealing from the US mail is a federal offense.
62
Whenever I get mail in my apartment mailbox that doesn’t belong to me, I slide it into the appropriate box or leave it with the doorman. Junk mail, bills, girlie magazines, whatever. Does the landlord deliver your mail to you? Probably not. Then let the landlord pick up his own mail.
13
I have a two family house in the suburbs of NJ about 5 miles from the GW bridge. I have had black, Asian, Latino, white & mixed race tenants, the good, the bad etc. From my point of view it's not about race, but personality. I would always prefer to find a tenant by recommendation rather than advertising & trying to screen people myself. It's a mad, mad, mad world out there & a recommendation of a trusted friend from a trusted tenant is gold. Don't lay your hangups on someone trying to get by in a world that probably makes her head spin.
88
As to the single mailbox for two dwelling units, the mail-sorter need only notice the name on the envelope. Although my tenant and I have separate mailboxes, I am frequently working in my front garden when the carrier delivers our mail. I take all of it and place my tenant's mail in his slot, checking only for his name.
So, maybe I have seen return addresses and such, but never in my life would I say to my tenant, "I noticed you belong to...." or "Who's that 'Jane Doe' who frequently sends you what feels like greeting cards?" How dare I make note of where his mail originates! It's not my business.
129
Both of these writers need to be grateful they're getting a good deal, stop trying to be the thought police, and mind their own business. Especially in the case of the second writer, the landlord has the right to subscribe to whatever magazine he wants. Jeez!
220
LW#1 & 2 both seem a tad self righteous in their superiority to the racist land lords. But they are both benefiting from the perceived racism in advantageous rental terms. Are they willing to give up their cushy rentals over their principles with no concrete evidence of wrongdoing on landlords part? And to LW#2 doing things to other people's mail is definitely a federal crime....
106
@Marti Mart Thanks for your reply to LW#1. As for the renters, separate from the landlord's actual beliefs, which they don't know, in addition to what you so clearly point out, perhaps they are good renters and the landlord is using them to filter out other potential good renters. Secondly, are they feeling guilty because they too don't have many nonwhite friends whom they could also recommend. If they do have some, recommend only those and see what the landlord's response might be.
13
@Marti Mart :
and we don't actually know that either renter/ landlord is "racist" or anti- anything....its just that they MIGHT be.
Maybe the LW's would benefit by re reading Orwell.
10
I would be more concerned about the legality of the unit if the landlord chooses to have all mail delivered to a single address. There seems to be a bit of cheating on the laws for zoning, garbage and water fees, taxes (property, federal, etc.) I'm willing to bet the rent includes all utilities because nothing separates you except a wall. Check to see if the Assessor's office classifies the house as a single or as a two-family dwelling.
Just for reference, where I live, having two units requires a double garbage pick-up fee. I wonder how many people here cheat on that extra $24/mo?
This unusual arrangement doesn't sound "kosher" to me--I've been a law-abiding landlord since 1972.
20
@ultimateliberalone
One mailbox, several units is common in Hawaii, where law allows divided houses if no more than 5 unrelated people live there. Owner must pay excise tax if they rent out part of the house, and only one full kitchen is permitted, which in practice means a microwave rather than full oven in the rental area.
@ultimateliberal That's a good one; turn the ethics challenge around to them- report it and their costs go up!
2
In 1989 a friend referred me to her landlord when she was moving back to Italy. This was for a one-bedroom rent-controlled unit on Boston’s charming Newbury Street. But when I got to the rental office, the landlord told me he didn’t rent to gay couples since “... this isn’t that kind of place.” Are those days behind us? Unfortunately not. I’ve often wondered what would have happened if I’d somehow been rented the unit by “mistake.” If I’d had to share a mailbox with my prejudiced landlord, I probably would have taken some of the money I’d saved on rent and secured a private mail box.
10
I was surprised at the advise for the person who had a landlord who received a religious magazine that sometimes had cover stories that they did not agree with. To begin with, this landlord's reading material is none of the tenants business, and even seeing it as the tenant has, there is no way of knowing whether the landlord agrees with those particular articles. Has the tenant never received a magazine with articles that they did not agree with? What if the landlord wanted to eject the tenant because they got a publication that frequently had articles supporting positions the landlord found offensive? Say for example, the NY Times with articles supporting the right to abortion, or decrying Donald Trump? I'd say its none of his darned business, just as the content of his publications is generally none of the tenants business.
I would make allowances for magazines with blatantly illegal content, for example if either the tenant or the landlord happened to accidently discover the other party was receiving child pornography. This could indicate an actual threat to the physical safety of children nearby, or in the apartments. Even so, one's mail is one's own business. Its best to stay out of it.
88
Everybody has a right to their beliefs, including those you don't believe in. Mind your own business and be thankful you have a less expensive and nice place to live. Neither of these situations mentions direct confrontations.
93
LW#1 : Has it ever occurred to you that, in asking you to recommend potential tenants, your landlady is, in effect, doing you a favor ? She is seeking to populate the roof you live under with likeminded people, apparently of decent means and character, with the ability to make the monthly rent- people who merit YOUR approval. Most likely, she is looking for safe and relaible tenants as well, considering that she lives under the same roof. Would you feel better if she recruited through an open ad in Craig's list, and you had to remind the crack smoker next door to you to take out the trash at least once a month ?
You have a below market rent in a decent building with the option to live among friends, but you need to find something to pick on ?
Isn't there a name for this ?
127
Finally, a column without a third party asking to cast judgment over others' behavior. Thank you for for returning to ethical issues.
11
As mentioned, interfering with someone else's mail is a federal crime, and for good reason. Those boys don't mess around, and there's no parole. As for trying to re-educate your landlord, you're on very thin ice. You may disagree with his views, but they are his, as is the property you live in. If you can't respect his views enough to take him his mail from his own mailbox, you should move. Unless you morality bends with your self-interest.
46
@Frank O agree completely and would only add that thoughts don't hurt people, actions do, he the landlord isn't doing anything that is hurting the tenants. So, they should just mind their own business. Or move, as you and many others said.
7
If you cannot stand your landlord for this or any other reason move.
30
Real ethical questions!
Is LW1's partner the sole leaseholder? If so, the landlord is asking for a recommendation from her tenant rather than his live-in partner w/whom she has no legal relationship. No sexism.
Small buildings (2-6 units) in which the owner/landlord resides are generally exempt from Fair Housing laws.
Are LW1 & her partner racists because they don't have a single racially diverse friend to recommend?
I struggle to understand why merely dropping her landlord's mail into a box by his door causes LW2 such distress.
43
Isn't it interesting that in an ethical dilemma about racism and sexism, the illustration is of an older woman talking (yelling?) at younger renters. Nothing in the question presumes the age of the individuals involved. Isn't this a classic instance of ageism? Illustrator heal thyself!
51
@GAF
The illustrations are always egregious whereas the headlines are only sometimes misleading.
16
It is very interesting that the renter in Los Angeles is decrying the racist/sexist attitude of her landlady but herself has no friends of color! One simple way to test the landlady’s actual conduct rather than attitude is to recommend a person of color next time as “a friend in need of housing”. If the landlady does not rent it out to that person of color than complain. If the landlady does rent it out, then the renter in Los Angeles should re-examine her own biases.
10
Why can these people not mind their own business? Our society has moved from a belief in tolerating those we don't agree with to an obsession with converting or punishing them.
Neither of the letter writers has evidence of malfeasance by their landlords, only the presumption that they are cogs in the great American oppression machine.
What neurotic, limited people.
78
It is amazing, the way that people think they have a right to police each other and impose their morality on people who they are barely acquainted with.
73
Let's imagine the opposite scenario. Your neighbor is receiving a LGBT magazine and you are uncomfortable with it. What would the advice be? Likely "mind your own businesses." That's what the advice should be in this instance as well.
54
How about signing him up for an LBTQ magazine?
2
Frankly, I think both letter-writers would be better off not taking on guilt for the presumed bigotry of other people. How does not stealing and throwing out someone else's mail make you complicit in the content of the mail you stole? I mean, seriously, people!
21
Tenants who are deprived of the opportunity to live in a diverse neighborhood are aggrieved parties under the fair housing act. While you would still need
more proof of discrimination, possibly from testing, you are an aggrieved party (as would be any testers that are treated worse than their matched pair). It may be impossible for an agency to test if the place is never advertised. However you could work with your local fair housing non-profit to recommend testers when there is availability. This situation is proof of white privilege—please stop maintaining the status quo and report this immediately. The housing rights center in LA should be able to help.
@Samantha :
and WHY should they or anyone else "test" the rental market when there is no perceived problem except that MAYBE the landlord doesn't think like the renters?
10
@Samantha
Good grief. The writer explicitly said she had no evidence or proof of anything.
George Orwell must be spinning on the grave.
5
Well, I mean this is clearly a vexing issue.
However, let me humbly attempt to provide a solution.
Mind your own business. Her views on anything are no concern of yours.
See, long story short, problem solved.
41
I’m so confused. Is the issue the fact that the landlord only wants people that she associates with or, and more likely, she only has friends that look exactly like her. Sounds like it comes from the same root “problem.” Speaking of problems, what someone else thinks isn’t really your problem right? Keep paying your below market rent and mind your business. Also, If you want to make a change, start with the woman in the mirror....
32
As the author said the world is full of bigots, alas. My advice would simply be to wait for them to all kick the bucket, her landlord included. With each generation comes a more tolerant world I believe.
1
@Keely Whoa. Did people believe that in the 1920's and 1930's?
1
@Keely Sure. Because the people who elected Trump are more tolerant than the people who elected Obama.
These are "problems" of privilege. Both hand-wringers should volunteer or donate to affordable housing or homeless initiatives.
34
Rent control is evil and those who can pay market rate should do so, like the writer here. I believe what the renter is DOING by living in a place that should go to genuine needy people as far more of a problem that whatever the landlady might SAY. Talk about an entitled jerk, so out of touch with reality. What he should do is move out and let the owner find a poor person to rent to, that's the real ethical issue here.
21
Evil, to be profoundly immoral and wicked, is a descriptor for serial killing, not rent control. Let’s keep our wits about us.
We don’t know how much money the writers have or where they live. A NYT subscription is $15 a month, hardly an onerous expense.
I’m a landlord and a liberal. I would prefer not to have a KKK member hanging the Stars ‘n Bars in the window of my rental, but I don’t ask questions about a person’s religious, political or sexual identifications so I don’t end up in a sticky imbroglio. I rent people a home and assume my tenant is purchasing housing, not a subscription to my religious, political or sexual insights. I presume my tenant doesn’t want me in her business and I surely don’t want her in mine. If a tenant is bothersome, I’ll find a reason not to renew the lease.
7
Rent control is property taking without compensation, something that is prohibited in the constitution. How the Supreme court allows this is beyond stupid. It was instituted in WW2 as a TEMPORARY EMERGENCY to provide stable housing for war production. Last I checked the war was over and we won, 70 years ago. I'd say the emergency is likely over. If the government want to provide housing assistance and let them tax the entire population pay for it, not just the property owner. It's immoral to continue this farce.
3
Rent control is different in different places. Any old rent law would have been factored into the purchase price of the building and therefore shouldn’t concern you.
LW1 is happily living there and paying rent, but questions whether she should extend friends/acquaintances similar benefits because of some vague idea that her landlord is bigoted. Newsflash, you are "supporting" or "helping" your landlord by living there and paying rent, albeit below market. The solution? Move, and pay her no rent.
Yeah, I didn't think so.
29
That couching things very carefully. Do you mean, it is ok to for some religions to be anti-gay? "As a matter of jurisprudence, the rights of sexual minorities can indeed be at odds with some religious-freedom claims."
1
M.Y.O.B. and stop guilting yourself. People are as they’ve always been - opinionated and vocal.
Sometimes we agree.
Other times, not so much.
It all boils down to this:
Unless an actual crime is taking place it’s best to just live and let live.
Remember - opinions are like noses and navels - everybody’s got one and no two are exactly alike.
21
LW1: You state no obvious actions/statements made by the landlady to support your claim of bigotry and sexism. Did you stop to think that she's asking for recommendations because she thinks you and your partner are good, responsible people, and that birds of a feather flock together? I know several landlords, and the big challenge each face is finding good tenants.
For LW2: What you propose is against the law, and a blatant act of censorship. Mind your own business.
38
I know some younger people, raised in what might be seen as more enlightened times, who truly believed the phrase was : "...chewed me down." People do mishear common phrases: "... put that in your Chester drawers" and "You said you would behave and you're not being have!"
10
It is fairly common to vet prospective tenants by getting current renters to vouch for them. If you wanted to change things up, find a minority friend to apply for the apartment. Oh wait! You don’t have any! So get off your high horse and stop judging.
32
One man's suggestion...
Enjoy your fortuitously low rent, and leave off the rest. No one needs to be friends with their landlord.
20
The writer should move out at let a truly needy person have the rent, that's what rent control is supposed to help, not some freeloader.
10
So now people who read Christian magazines are bigots? That’s a stretch.
21
@Jennifer I believe the cover featured anti-LGBT content, which is hardly “Christian,” and could be interpreted as potentially fueling homophobia. If the magazine simply celebrated Christianity and didn’t advocate bigotry, there’d be no issue.
2
@Jennifer I find that often, not always, they are bigots. Unfortunately, but after 80 years of living on this planet i can't really say otherwise.
1
I don't believe the SF tenant should talk to the landlord about his mail. It's like when I go to Safeway and the grocery clerk comments on the yummy spaghetti dinner I have to look forward to: I'd rather she didn't. Frankly, what I buy is personal.
For both of these tenants I would recommend, "Live and let live." The first guy may need to expand his racial friend circle, so he only has a small pool of friends to announce openings to.
38
@Diane
Wow! A clerk trying to make conversation is intruding on your personal space, and what you buy in the supermarket is "personal"? Unless your groceries could be made invisible as you remove them from the shelves, they're "public." If that bothers you, you could use an online delivery grocery service.
6
@Linda
Only in recent years have I heard clerks commenting on my purchases. I think clerks used to get better training. They are supposed to be there to serve their customers.
It's fine with me if clerks and chatty customers converse, as long as they don't hold up the checkout line. But I don't like hearing judgments about my purchases, and I don't go to the grocery store to socialize.
So a customer can strike up a conversation with the clerk, but not the other way around.
3
These letters encapsulate the convoluted, confusing times we live in.
You aren't doing your landlord a favor to recommend friends for below market rate housing. Your landlord is doing you and your friends a favor. There would be a line a mile long of prospective renters if you didn't have the inside track.
How you can mentally turn that into you as doing the landlord a favor is beyond me. And people don't get reported to an "authority" for making vague comments--at least not yet, thankfully.
As to sorting the landlord's mail--it's private. It's supposed to go from the postal delivery person to the landlord. Your "screening process"--part of a great rental deal--is technically illegal.
Why and how the landlord came to be reading Christian publications--and what the landlord makes of them--is none of your business.
148
Most people are surprised that the Federal Fair Housing Act also protects those who are denied the right of interracial association because of their landlord’s bias. If these tenants live in a building that lacks diversity they are are also being harmed.
5
Not explicitly stated, but it seems both of these landlords are elderly. Buck up, Kids. They will Die, eventually. In the meantime, live your life and avoid them as much as possible. That’s my mantra, as a known Democrat and feminist in Kansas. And to preempt accusations of ageism, I’m 60.
Cheers.
20
@Phyliss Dalmatian Read the first letter. The landlady is a woman, and thus in your mind can't be sexist? You can be old and ageist.
9
The landlord's mail. Technically, it's his house and address. He should be getting it and giving you your mail. By intercepting it, you are now creating a problem that does not need to be.
Talk to the guy or drop it.
16
I don't know what the solution is, but I had a similar experience while renting in a development of duplexes near the airport in Los Angeles. A grandmotherly, seemingly pleasant lady a few houses down the street asked me if I had a friend she might rent to.
I happened to have a co-worker with troublesome apartment neighbors who was thinking of moving. She was a single woman who lived an assuredly quiet life and was just an all-around nice person. Who happened to be Black. Not suspecting that would be an issue, I passed the information along, expecting I was doing both parties a favor.
A few days later, my co-worker informed me the neighbor had refused to rent to her, and was rude and racist about it. Co-worker reported this to an equal housing rights non-profit. They sent out testers, but my neighbor figured it out and evaded their trap. And I heard back from my own landlady that the neighbor was complaining bitterly about me doing her wrong! Apparently she assumed all my friends must be White like me, that the color of my skin meant I must share her worldview. Should I have asked beforehand if she was willing to rent to a person of color? Not kosher in my book!
25
It's incredible to me that the Ethicist did not immediately up front before anything else point out that stealing mail is a federal offense.
I get several science publications. If I shared an address with a person like the first questioner and they were a fundamentalist Christian, would anyone entertain the idea that that person could throw out some of my mail?
46
There are tradeoffs you make when you live in a rent stabilized or rent controlled apartment. You can't take what essentially is a rent subsidy with you to your next place. So you must constantly be assessing the negatives of your current location versus the savings in rent you get. You don't like your landlady. Can you possibly move to another rent-controlled apartment? That's very unlikely in the tight rental market. Do you have any minority friends? Maybe you should only recommend your friends of color to your landlady, then at least you are not contributing to her evil scheme, and you have the benefit of having friends in your building.
4
@David Binko One of the coolest things to happen would be for the landlady to get some fabulous tenants who happen to be members of the group she hates. The best way to truly eradicate prejudice is to truly get to know the feared "other." Of course, making that happen requires that the landlord not reject the applicants on sight. And it could involve significant burden for the applicants, who rightfully shouldn't have to be model minorities for the sake of educating yet another bigot. (Macro-aggression much?) I would give my friends a heads up of what may await them and ask if they want to pursue the vacancy - and let the landlady know they pay their rent on time and live respectfully. If she rejects them capriciously, they certainly have the right to pursue a complaint. A way to eradicate biased behavior - if not underlying beliefs - is with a legal stick.
3
@David Binko :
even though we're not sure what "hateful" beliefs the landlady holds, lets do our best to make her life harder, because she may not 'think' like us?
1
I have a question I wish I could pose to LW1. If you feel you are reinforcing the landlady's prejudices by referring your friends to her, aren't you saying that none of your friends are in the racial or gendered categories that you regard her as bigoted toward?
So if you do not associate with people whose identities she discriminates against, I am earnestly unclear about why you are judging her. I don't mean to be unfair or to miss your point (I may well be doing exactly that!), but couldn't someone look at your friend group and see exclusivity or discrimination if these identities aren't represented?
Obviously this is a question for anyone who cares to answer. It's posed sincerely and without prejudgment.
Or is LW1 saying she refers friends who may indeed present with these identities, and she feels bad because they are unknowingly renting from someone who feels bigoted toward them? And the landlady doesn't reveal her bigotry in front of them?
Don't the friends, whether or not they are targets of the bigotry, have a right to know about it in case they would prefer not to direct money toward such a person?
33
Both letter writers should mind their own business. Or move.
For #1, the complaint of bigotry is really soft. Moreover, she continues to rent there! The business of not recommending a vacant unit to friends is hypocritical (or to be kind, inconsistent).
Letter writer #2 apparently believes censoring/stealing the landlord's mail is OK? In no way is giving him the magazine is "perpetuating hate". Consider the reverse: Would "losing the magazine" be perceived as "promoting love"? I seriously doubt it.
A response is in order if/when the landlords make a direct insult/slur. But without cause, it's a fool's errand to confront the supposed bigots to change their views.
These letters do not describe authentic ethical dilemmas, and are best solved by minding their own business.
210
Housing agencies do “secret shopper” visits for rentals. If a unit is about to become available, reach out to the agency with your concerns and let them handle it. I had a landlord make several unacceptable comments to me during my tenancy (like she didn’t want to rent to X type people because their food smelled) and as I prepared to move out at the end of my lease, I contacted the housing authority. She was dumb enough to reply to my texts about how a showing went with “they had kids” and “I don’t trust people on disability.” I supplied all this documentation. They sent out test tenants. I don’t know what the final result was, but I know there were consequences. And my next apartment was so much nicer, with non-discriminatory landlords and diverse neighbors.
15
@Anne :
funny how you waited until you were moving out to drop her in it?
And I suppose you are now proud of yourself for this? Did it change her views, or wasn't that the point ?? Just punishing her was enough , was it?
4
@RLiss You’re on a pretty high horse. Don’t fall off.
6
I think people have a right to privacy. Regarding the issue with the landlord’s mail, I would do my best to oblige him this right and not mention anything about the mail he receives. If you witness bigoted behavior then by all means speak up, otherwise avert your eyes from his mail and deliver it to his box per your agreement. I wouldn’t want a check out clerk commenting on my groceries.
35
"I value being able to extend what really is an extremely good financial deal to friends who would really benefit from it, but am deeply uncomfortable about the fact that, in doing so, I am enabling her racism and sexism."
Don't you have any friends of color? Or women friends? If not, maybe the bigotry is closer to home than you realize.
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The ethical solution in both cases is to enjoy the good deal you're getting while it lasts, and to otherwise MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS.
Neither of these landlords seem to be doing anything even close to illegal, and they definitely both seem to be offering their tenants the very important human kindness of providing them with a good cheap place to live.
The tenants, on the other hand, are looking for a way to cause trouble by somehow turning the 'woke' knob up to 11. 'Let sleeping dogs lie' is good advice here.
In a more concrete vein, I might suggest that the SF people take a trip to Cole Hardware (since I doubt they'd be caught dead at a politically incorrect place like Home Despot) and get an extra mailbox. Put it next to the first one, and put different names on each box. Your mail carrier should be able to figure things out.
As for the magazine itself, you should NOT ask why he gets that magazine or even attempt to discuss it; It Does Not Matter whether he chooses to subscribe to it or if his overzealous brother in the midwest has it sent to him, because that Is None Of Your Business. If the situation were reversed, and he was picking up the mail and choosing to 'lose' your copy of LGBTQIA Monthly in a misguided attempt to save you from sin, you'd be outraged and thinking about suing him into homelessness.
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@SB That the landlord and tenants share a mailbox is a huge hint this is an illegal unit.
15
@P Wilkinson , I took that as an unethical given! I was disappointed wasn't raised in the reply.
3
@joan Not true! I live in a legal apt in a 2 family house and there is one mailbox for both units. It's not some secret code for "illegal unit".
3
Although I can empathize with the concerns of our letter writers, I was bothered by 2 issues:
1 - Although one might have concerns that someone is biased, she hasn't done anything to merit this concern, at least not that was mentioned. The mere suspicion of bias is not sufficient to report her. You need something more concrete, anything, not just one's intuition.
2- That the writer responded to the anti-semitic comment in the personal, rather than the general, is wrong. The correct response is rebut the generalization about Jews, not that one is personally offended or derided. My spouse is Jewish, and any anti-semitic comments are an affront to all Jews, in fact to all people, not just her personally.
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@James Igoe :
Tell me to whom are we supposed to "report" people who happen to disagree with us? And why is it a good thing?
2
@RLiss - To clarify, if their landlord had actually made biased remarks, that indicated she was violating laws that prevent discrimination, this is no longer a simple difference of opinion. If there was something actionable, that you knew of or strongly suspected to violate such laws, one could report them to the appropriate government authorities.
Quote: The Fair Housing Act prohibits housing discrimination on the basis of race, color, national origin, religion, sex, familial status, and disability.
1
One should remind LW 2 that he is considering interfering with someone else's rights because he doesn't like what they read and is uncomfortable with possible underlying attitudes. (It's also illegal to mess with the mail, BYW, a crime, actually and a bigger one than renting out an unapproved separate unit). Where, frankly does LW2 get the chutzpah to expect better values from his landlord than in himself, while taking advantage of a beneficial rent situation to boot?
LW!: It isn;t entirely clear to me how the LW is certain about the landlady's racism and sexism, but I'll accept that it's there. If s/he wants to create an issue, s/he could refer a potential renter whom the landlady, she assumes, will reject, and who would then have a justified complaint to take to the proper authorities, if they so wished.
Agreed with the Ethicist, referring would be renters seems more a help to them than to the landlady. FWIW, I learned - decades ago - that my landlady had refused to rent to two young black men: I'm pretty sure they were out on two strikes -being male and being black, but I also know she was fearful about anyone except women, and very wary even then. And it was a three-family house, exempt from most rules. My roommate and I stayed: moving wouldn't have helped anyone else.
9
@cheryl
In your reply to lw1 I smell entrapment.
1
A question for the second letter writer: How would you feel if your landlord or a neighbor brought up that he disagreed with the politics of the materials that you receive in the mail? How about if that person threw away a piece of the offending material? A simple application of the golden rule seems to be in order here.
104
You 'feel' something about someone else's beliefs and imagine behaviors, and you want to do something? Report her why? Or to change her how? People can believe whatever they want. and we cannot control that, nor should we. You can move out if you wish. What is the ethical issue here?
45
It can be almost impossible to get off a mailing list. It takes numerous attempts. Those that service the list get paid by the piece and the larger the list the more money they make.
Not suggesting that those who service such lists might be the least bit greedy.
9
@Lawrence I was thinking the same thing. Moreover, I receive 5, yes 5, magazines that I have never subscribed to. I donate 3 to the library, and 2 I leave in the breakroom at work.
7
To clarify one point: Once mail has been delivered to the recipient’s mailbox, there is no federal mail offense in interfering with that mail as I was rudely taught when my employer started opening my mail after it was delivered to the organization but not yet to my mailbox in the mailroom
1
@Kerry Edwards
Mail delivered to companies or organizations is different from personal mail. Things delivered to your company are delivered to your COMPANY, not to you.
https://www.askamanager.org/2010/08/is-it-legal-for-my-boss-to-open-my-mail.html
Not nice of your boss to do, but not illegal. Among other things, business processes would be greatly slowed down if someone leaves and the replacement isn't legally allowed to open invoices addressed to the predecessor.
3
“I can’t point to a particular incident.” So mind your own business. Living in an apartment building, as I also do, means being tolerant of others who say and do things you don’t agree with as difficult and frustrating as that may be. Unless someone is breaking the law, let it go.
48
Why is it any of the tenant’s business if his landlord is a Christian who has traditional, conservative Christian beliefs about gay marriage and why would it be contributing to oppression not to tamper with his landlord’s mail? So long as the landlord is “decent” and fulfills his obligations, the tenant has no particular reason to interject what will probably be an unwanted opinion about his choice of reading material.
39
I'd like to gently object to the strategy proposed in the second scenario.
One of the pitfalls of urban life is that we're forced into more intimate proximity with our neighbors than we might like. The solution we've found to preserve a little mutual privacy is to politely ignore each other (a courtesy often misinterpreted as rudeness by outsiders).
The fact that you are familiar with the contents of your landlord's mail due to the specifics of your living situation is a perfect opportunity to employ the situation described above. Were you to attempt to discuss the magazine with him, he would likely feel as violated as my parents would if their suburbanite neighbors tried to discuss the contents of their mailbox.
Certainly feel free to discuss any issues you like, and definitely respond when he steps out of line ("jewed me down"? Really?!), but leave his mail out of it.
As for complicity in the matter, consider yourself an extension of the postal service. I don't think you're responsible for the contents of the mail, but I do think, given that your landlord has come to rely on you, you're responsible for making sure the mail gets to him.
30
There seems to be a lot of judging going on here. How about a little more live and let live. That is an under appreciated virtue these days.
67
The first writer sounds a little bit paranoid to me. He or she (why do I sense that it is a she?) doesn’t give any concrete evidence that the landlady is bigoted or sexist. Things heard while eavesdropping? Not evidence of anything more than bad character. And the practice of filling empty units with friends of long term tenants is common. Where is the problem here? If the letter writer was sincerely flummoxed over the ethics of dealing with the Big Bad Landlady, “they” would move out and find another apartment. Why pull you want to pay rent to such a horrible woman, if you are so pure? I smell hypocrisy.
37
@Passion for Peaches First writer is justifiably paranoid of the Thought Crimes Police breaking down his door.
2
Call the police, the FBI and the CIA. No one has the right to voice opinions that differ from yours. Your landlady should be arrested and imprisoned without option of bail. Criminal justice reform be darned.
65
Wow. These two LWs are two pieces of work. They really really really don’t like their landlords’ opinions but they really really really don’t want to mess up their below market rent lives! What to do. What to do!
146
Just mind your own business. Crusading against bigotry here could alienate your landlord enough to get you a non-renewal of your lease. Is it worth it? No. So respect his right to get a Christian magazine you shouldn't be reading in the first place.
26
Her opinions are none of your business.
33
@Jonathan Katz The opinions matter of they violate the fair housing act.
@PrairieFlax
But there's no evidence that they do so.
3
@PrairieFlax
Opinions don't violate law (yet), actions do. And there's no evidence of any.
5
Two thoughts:
Separate mailboxes make good neighbors!
and
What would Stalin say?
17
@TMJ They can't have separate mailboxes, because it would reveal that there is an illegal accessory apartment. And if the City issue violations, LW would lose the apartment.
Stalin,and the Stasi, the Red Guard, the Tonton Macoute , and maybe HUAC . . Where it helps to have two faces.
4
@TMJ
Seems clear enough to me, LW2 is benefitting from what is probably an illegal situation: "...Due to housing codes, and decisions the owner (our landlord) has made, we share an address and mailbox..."
Neither of them would want a pair or mailboxes as it would announce the situation to any housing inspector.
8
Ah, the indignity of it all. Someone has made a racist or sexist comment in front of me. If it really bothers you, than just move even if you have to give up the financial benefit.
27
I might suggest to the renter that it’s possible your landlord chooses not to talk to you not because she’s sexist but rather because she doesn’t like you, perhaps intuiting that you just might be the type of person to turn to a national newspaper to accuse someone of racism and sexism “based on casual observations and overheard comments.” Hey, it’s a possibility.
149
@JFB
They say they are not an aggrieved party but sure sound aggrieved to me! But not enough to give up the sweet rental deal.
26
@JFB
It's also a possibility that she moved in w/a guy who had the lease in his name & the landlord speaks to him directly because he's the tenant. The landlord isn't asking LW1 anything by proxy or otherwise.
Note LW1 doesn't use the legal term of landlord found in the lease & instead refers to the "sexist" landlady.
16
Perhaps. But are overheard comments not revealing? If I hear someone say something derogatory about a race or religion, it’s no less racist if the remark wasn’t made to me.
1
Before you "lose" his U.S. Mail, be aware that you are probably committing a felony when you do so. I don't think pleading that your mail theft was "ethical" will cut you any slack.
38
@David Absolutely! This fact should have been included in The Ethicist's reply.
8
Toss that magazine, without hesitation.
Okay, I'm kind of kidding, but I wonder if that's what I would do in this situation.
2
Housing discrimination based on several protected classifications is against Federal and a lot of state laws. Housing enforcement agencies send testers out all the time. Giving an anonymous tip to such an agency would seem to be a very ethical way of letting someone know that there might be a cause for them to check. A lot of the time, small violations result in mandatory Fair Housing education. If they don't find anything wrong, no problem.
14
"I don’t know if he subscribes to this magazine, or if it is sent to him because he made a donation,..."
Good point. I am a college professor and, for who-knows-what reason, I somehow got on the mailing list of an organization that routinely sends me an unsolicited subscription to a magazine replete with all manner of conspiracy theories and bizarre claims. I could try to get off the mailing list, but my guess is that the organization buys names from professional organizations to which I belong and eventually I will be back on the list.
Just because someone gets a magazine in the mail does not necessarily mean they have any interest in receiving it. In this particular case it could straight to the recycling bin.
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@Metaphor I agree. My father is a military veteran and thus he and my mom have made donations to various veterans groups. In exchange for that, we end up getting the oddest stuff from right-wing groups who presume if you support veterans and soldiers, you must be a Republican or conservative, which our family is not.
34
@Metaphor Or maybe he gets it for the pictures and not the articles?
5
@Metaphor
One may request removal from mailing lists, including unwanted newsletters or "magazines" (the propaganda described by Metaphor) on catalogchoice.org.
6
I am surprised that the Times did not suggest a perfectly innocent reason why the landlord might ask the rent controlled tenant is he or she has any friends that might be interested in the apartment. In California, it is difficult to get tenants, even those that cause problems, out of an apartment. Since raising the rent is not an option to do so, the landlord has an incentive to find tenants that pay reliably and do not cause problems.
As this tenant has been in the apartment for several years, it is reasonable to assume that he/she is such a tenant. A reasonable landlord would think that any friend his tenant would recommend would have a high probability of behaving in a similar manner. And if previous recommendations have done so, even a better reason to ask.
184
If you truly feel it appropriate and helpful in the moment to comment on a problem with another's choice of words--and sometimes it is--try something along the lines of "you know, that comes off badly." No labels, no questioning motives, just pointing out that it's considered a problem. Lots of the time people just use things that are part of the language without really thinking about it.
Then if it goes well you can have the wider discussion.
57