Another shocking report that, sadly, is not at all surprising. The American political establishment stopped listening to its people long ago. Presidents lie with impunity because they know they can. They only hear what they want to hear and it's not the people. I wish I were not so cynical.
I fought in the Vietnam War where friends died horrible deaths and thousands of civilians died, in a sham war. And here we are again. We never learn. I know one thing for certain: Neither Bush, Obama, or Trump will ever make a public apology that they lied and are sorry.
6
Rumsfeld, with his arrogant demeanor, is one of the bad guys, a replay of McNamara, both of who wrote self-justifying memoirs, except that the latter included a decades too late apology hot his actions. Wouldn't expect "Rummy" - what a tough guy he is! - to follow suit. The problem, folks, is with the misplaced confidence in their judgment, and, of course, failing to acknowledge mistakes, and hanging on to these two losers way too long.
2
When you watch it day to day, it sounds insane. Trump seems ignorant, impulsive, undisciplined on foreign policy and looking like an amateur vis-a-vis the experienced, dedicated, professional "experts", career government officers, and public servants. However, then you look at the results, and the "experts" have dragged us into pointless wars repeatedly, then lied about it (see Afghanistan papers), while Trump is the first President in recent memory who did not ensnare us into another conflict.
Paradoxical, but I'd rather have an idiot with good results, then a bunch of "geniuses" with a proven disastrous record.
3
We all knew it was a bundogle when they let Asama go and claimed it was not important to get him. Thanks Bush. Then Bush decided it would be great to invade Iraq because they had weapons of mass destruction. Thanks Bush. Then let's rebuild Afghanistan so it wouldn't be a staging area for terrorism. Bush and Chaney the military industrial complex in the White House.
This report is no surprise just like the Pentagon papers weren't. I guess we just couldn't do anything about it.
2
The lessons the military and the federal government that oversees the military need to learn should have been learned during the Vietnam War. So it is not out of pure cynicism when I state that We The People will learn nothing from the miserable misadventure in Afghanistan.
3
SHAME ON THE NEW YORK TIMES!
Again and again, they've trusted the claims of the Pentagon, intelligence officials, White House and Congress through the years about this war and other military adventures. Even non-journalists like myself have been deeply skeptical of so many falsities peddled over the years. How could the Times NOT have been?
The Times and the rest of the mainstream media are guilty of incompetence, at best -- corruption, at worst.
Now, tens of thousands are dead, a trillion+ dollars wasted.
...And then we get this limp, useless shrugging of shoulders, this "Lessons" editorial -- what IS this?
The media, supposedly the people's protector, should be demanding hearings. There must be accountability for the incalculable number of lies fed to us about this monstrous scandal; we need hearings on this war with the same scrutiny of the impeachment hearings.
If The Times is not willing to demand hearings and accountability for the egregious lies we've been fed by Republican and Democratic administrations over the past two decades -- for the longest war in our history -- what is the POINT of these editorials in the first place?
Finally, we readers should demand accountability for the growing mountain of mistakes from the fourth estate -- your lack of skepticism of our government's claims is breathtaking in scope; you've become water carriers for warmongers. You HAVE to change your ways.
The casualties of this disastrous war deserve nothing less!
6
People don't read books. If all those naïve troops who enlisted to fight the "War on Terror" had read "1984," "Born on the 4th of July," "Johnny Got his Gun," "Slaughterhouse 5," etc. they would have known better.
24
So they decided to invade Iraq and have 2 wars where they didn't know what they were doing.
2
At the beginning, after 9/11 the accepted wisdom was that we take the war there so we do not need to fight it here. Then while already there, extra benefit, it was decided to turn the place into a "democracy" so new attacks would be unlikely.
It was never clear how this was suppose to work. How having a war there will prevent a war here.
I am not saying there was no chance of success (theoretically). Maybe we live in different times now but for example Japan, Germany became allies after WW2. Still are after 70 years.
1
When it comes to lessons from Afghanistan, retrospective assessments of that conflict should include Vietnam and Korea. The latter employed a draft and we still maintain troops there. At a minimum, a careful reflection would draw attention to the changed nature of modern warfare, in particular that it is fought for limited purposes and within limits to the application of force. As to the goals, these commonly include objectives that are beyond the reach of force, such as building stable civil institutions. These restraints are problematic enough, but add to that the requirement that the execution of such warfare is to be carried out by a democratic society through the “coordinated” and legally authorized work of very large, complex bureaucracies. By comparison, WWII, the “good war” was easy; that was total war, at home and abroad, right up to the fire bombing of Hamburg, Dresden and Tokyo and the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. It is beyond dispute that modern American interests include very important issues in far-away places that are culturally different and unfamiliar. And there is no model of reference for how American democracy can successfully address these issues. But iIgnoring them is not an option.
1
The country of Afghanistan is not ready for Western style democracy. It may never be. It is not America's job to make it so. We need to leave NOW.
I do feel pity for the women of Afghanistan who once again will be relegated to third class status, but again it's not our job. Let Saudi Arabia or any other Muslim country step in to help the country modernize.
1
We can thank Bush2 for two unwinnable wars that have cost dearly in blood and treasure. We have become a militarized society with flags waving and fly byes at football games and military budgets that know no end while the national debt grows and grows.
Meanwhile, the issues that should attract our attention such as climate change are for the most part largely unattended.
It is difficult to see it all ending well.
3
Where is the questioning and analysis of the "what if we had not gone into Afghanistan" and "what if we had pulled out entirely earlier or do pullout out now or the near future" ?
I never expected we could build Afghanistan to be able to stand on its own, but that we would stay there of necessity in the forever asymmetric fight against terrorism -- a metastatic cancer in the world body that we can at best manage and cannot eliminate or cure.
That is the reality missing in essentially all the reviews and opinions out there including media and Congress.
1
Listening to our military leaders talk, I'm amazed to hear them say -- always -- "We didn't know what we were getting into." Well, why not? They teach ancient military history at the Point, don't they?
Afghanistan has been conquered many times in the ancient world, most notably by Cyrus the Great and Alexander the Great. Alexander waged a long, guerilla campaign there, took an Afghan princess, Roxane, as his chief wife and never went home to Macedon, dying in Babylon in modern-day Iraq a month short of his 33rd birthday. Our soldiers continue to walk in his footsteps. Unlike him, I don't think they wish to be conqueror-explorers but would like to come home.
I know we are in an age of anti-elitism and people are always telling me that not everyone is as "old-fashioned" as I am and interested in history, but is it too much to ask that our leaders immerse themselves in a culture before seeking to conquer it? -- thegamesmenplay.com
3
Lessons learned? Didn't the esteemed NY Times fight to publish the Pentagon Papers on Vietnam, and the similarities are not surprising if you've been watching. Didn't the Soviet Union learn the same lessons in the 1980's and the British a century before? Getting involved in Afghanistan is a losing proposition.
We had valid reasons to go in back in late 2001/early 2002, but no plan to get out quickly. The rest is this horrible history, and we the People have paid in blood and money
2
Three years and two Federal lawsuits is the truly shocking part.
3
Simple solutions are available. Withdraw from Afghanistan immediately. Withdraw from military activities in Iraq, Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Israel, other Middle East countries and most of Africa. Stop picking sides in conflicts about which we have little or no understanding, and often very little at stake. Regular annual reductions in military expenditures are long overdue. Let the US go back to being a model liberal democratic society, instead of a world class bad example, boast and bully.
Lets address the existential (overused word, but appropriate) problems facing us and the world - climate change, water scarcity, destructive and unsustainable diets and agricultural practices, corporate interests over societal interests, politics over science, drastic income inequality, etc.
This ain’t just Trump and the Republicans folks. Our politicians are like pigs feeding at a trough of money and influence, and do not represent the long term interests of America. I think most of them know it but cannot help themselves. If we don’t take back our government, we are not even going to go down fighting, we are just going to go down.
4
Trump lies. the CIA and FBI lie, the generals lie...
Trump was elected because he is brash, crude, and if it suits him he can speak truth to power.
" during a 2017 meeting about how to best prosecute the Afghan war, Trump said in Kelly’s presence that the young American soldiers who had died in Afghanistan had died for a worthless cause. Trump said, “We got our boys who are over there being blown up every day for what? For nothing. Guys are dying for nothing.
https://time.com/5744414/trump-generals-military-experience/
Can you imagine Obama saying that?
Or any other president saying that?
Trump was saying an inconvenient truth.
Of course, he does not have the knowledge or courage to demand change, even though he knows the stupidity of US wars.
3
When JFK won the election in 1960, he met with Dwight D. Eisenhower who told him to be aware of the focuses of those in the Military Industrial Complex for they love war for only one reason - MONEY. This problem has only gotten worse as we today are spending even more than JFK's VP did in that equally dumb, "money making for some" war in Vietnam. Obviously, Kennedy did not share this fact with Lyndon Baines Johnson. Does anyone know how we can fix this problem????
2
Mythology has reigned over America since the 17th Century.
2
Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me.
Looks and sounds like Vietnam all over again. The art of deception has no remorse.
3
Meanwhile, the Chickenhawk war criminals, Bush and Cheney, enjoy their government pensions, healthcare and lifetime Secret Service protection.
6
@Miss Anne Thrope - Can they leave the US and travel?
Or will they picked up and tried for war crimes?
1
“If wars can be started [and perpetuated] by lies, peace can be started by truth." — Julian Assange (journalist/whistleblower/political prisoner)
#FreeJulianAssange
4
James, excellent idea. I totally agree.
Actually, lots of lessons from Vietnam; None learned.
'...You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - the most famous of which is "never get involved in a land war in Asia"...'.
That's the lesson we don't learn. Afghanistan has known only a handful of peaceful prosperous years in its long history. Why would we think that our ideas would override the deeply ingrained tribal feuds, blood wars and honor killings?
1
I highly recommend that every person interested in the problem of military interventionism and the use of bombs, tanks and rockets as a substitute for diplomacy take the time to read the brilliant article about Afghanistan in The Washington Post in its entirety.
The work by the reporters there and, particularly, by Craig Whitlock is admirable. There is enough blame for the fiasco to be spread to everyone, stretching over three U.S. administrations.
The George W. Bush – Dick Cheney era probably has greatest culpability, because the Afghanistan adventure was also a highly publicized act of revenge for 9/11 and an extension of the “Ready- Shoot-Aim” stupidity used in Iraq.
Bush, to be fair, had to deal with the dishonesty of the generals and of his first Secretary of Defense, Donald Rumsfeld, as well as Rumsfeld’s arrogance.
Barack Obama had to deal with the problems inherited from Bush, a continued dishonesty of the military plus the outright insubordination of some generals.
Donald Trump and his staff, incredibly, have learned nothing and offered no solutions other than to bomb, to walk away, then to reconsider and, finally, to waffle.
Craig Whitlock’s reporting demonstrates that the chain-of-command mentality of the military brass continues to translate into falsifying data. Not only were no “Lessons Learned” from Afghanistan, none have been learned, apparently, from Viet Nam.
1
Quote from PBS's Nick Schifrin at the beginning of an interview with retired Lt. General Douglas Lute last night: "Afghanistan is the Graveyard of Empires". We need only ask the Russians....and now, after 18 years, it's us. We will never, ever learn. Eisenhower was right: "Beware the Military Industrial Complex".
4
If and when we withdraw from Afganistan we will leave behind thousands of men and women who cooperated with us as translators or served in the military in various capacities. Additionally, there are women who served the Afgan government and people as legislators, mayors, doctors and other professions. These the Taliban will torture and slaughter. I hate that we will be selling these people out just as we did the Kurds.
4
While we are impeaching, isn't it about time to start considering bringing some of these politicians and Generals up for war crimes and/or crimes against humanity?
Is everyone wearing that little flag in their lapel or colorful ribbons on their chest above the law and humanity?
Let's start with G.W.Bush, Donald Rumsfeld, Colin Powell. They lied to us, destroyed two countries, roiled the Middle East, and recruited thousands of Islamic terrorists who now have us in their sights.
2
As some letter-writers in the Times wrote yesterday: "Who has won this war? Raytheon, Lockheed-Martin, Boeing, Northrop-Grumman etc. - and don't forget Dick Cheney's precious Halliburton and the oil and gas industry."
They are delighted with this endless war as the tens of billions pour into their coffers.
10
Both Classical Sparta and Repubican Rome required military service before their men could enter political life. When the nation is at war, we all should shoulder the burden. With a professional military, the democracy gets too mercinary with its use.
2
The decision to invade Iraq and Afghanistan was a turning point in my cynicism about Americans. It seemed like everyone wanted War regardless of whether or not there was evidence for a war or a strategy to win and end it. I was disgusted at the stupidity of George Bush's "mission accomplished" comment and hated the "support our troops" right-winged mantra.
Then the American people brought us Trump and now we can't even impeach him in spite of all the evidence. Soon it won't matter because the climate is going destroy much of what we have.
Human beings are technologically brilliant and emotionally infantile.
3
What a bummer ! So, the only two good things at which the American army excels, dropping bombs on the enemy and throwing billions of $ at the population, failed to install a democratic and un-corrupt regime in Afghanistan. Maybe some nations are not meant to ever become democracies. Afghanistan, Lybia, and Egypt clearly cannot learn how to live in a democracy, Iraq could be a success story some day. Score is 1:3 for US. It's not worth the effort and the lives lost. We should find something else at which to throw money. How's that "space force" going/coming ? Let's spend more on going to Mars. It is guaranteed to be pointless, but I'm sure that it won't kill that many people, unless we find a Martian society that is primitive and needs to be taught our democratic values.
1
I would say the military learned a great deal since Vietnam.
They eliminated the draft. Students lost interest in wars. There was no reason to protest and apathy prevailed. .
2
The choices seem to be to establish and protect permanent counterterrorism bases to police the country and literally ignore what happens to the populace, leave entirely and allow terrorists to go there and operate freely, or do approximately what we have been doing (hopefully with less killing and use of wide-effect airstrikes).
Putting on my game theory hat: "massive attack on the US population leads to two decade occupation by NATO forces and armed American drones" is not something that will be easily forgotten by anyone. What led to that massive attack was a series of failures to use basic game theory to prevent it in the first place.
Maybe I am missing something? As my former manager at a federal agency used to say, "anything worth doing is worth doing poorly".
The generals love wars like sportsmen
love sports and musicians love to sing.
Money is no problem. Congress is
always ready to throw more money
on the war machine. It ignores spending
on infrastructure, low cost housing, day care centers, living wage rate, but money is always available for wars.
Congressmen have probably known what Washington Post discovered but
turned blind eye and let the war go on.
There are no checks on war machine.
Generals call the shot and politicians
go along. Eventually we will have to
pay for the trillions spent in Iraq and
Afghanistan. It will be with our jobs,
cut in social welfare and degradation
of infrastructure.
2
Back in the 1950s, the French warned American politicians about the perils of getting involved in Vietnam. Twenty-some years later, the Soviets found their own Waterloo in Afghanistan. And yet, in both instances, the US jumped in with both feet. The result: mass casualties, tragedy and chaos for millions of Vietnamese, and Afghans, and trillions of dollars spent on lost causes. As the song goes: "When will they ever learn?" Never, apparently.
2
Over the decades so many people, reading the news, listening to the military and political leaders, talking among themselves, family and friends have known that first, in Vietnam, then Iraq, and now Afghanistan, the leadership was all wrong.
How can it be that we, the people, sit at our kitchen tables, as the saying goes, and are so wise while those in power, elected by us (!), are so oblivious to reality and the truth?!
How can it be that these highly trained military folks, for example, are so preoccupied with their advancement that they fear to speak out when the civilian leadership is so wrong or are punished when they do? Likewise the civilian leadership, the cabinet appointees, the Congressional committees?
None of it seems to be working anymore, and that is scary. Fear of standing for truth brought us to Trump. The country has lost its moral compass, as some are fond of saying. It is true.
If it is not true, then those who see that it isn't working must stop squabbling and vote in November 2020, no matter who the candidate is other than Trump. No nit picking, and no staying home in a huff. We cannot re-elect this symbol of all that is wrong with our country now, the one who intentionally continues its downward trajectory. Time to simply stand for what is true and right. Time to defend the Constitution.
Richard Holbrooke! The ghostly presence in this predictable tragedy. Why do his efforts to negotiate a settlement enabling the U.S. to exit this unwinnable war merit virtually no mention in the interviews and articles? Many if not most of the interviews were apparently conducted during the Obama Administration in the aftermath of his untimely death. Yet one sees no evidence of a recognition of a missed opportunity. Holbrooke correctly understood that a military solution was not possible. The Taliban could not be defeated unless Pakistan, sanctuary and supplier of the Taliban, was involved and supportive. Hobrooke saw the Obama military surge in Afghanistan as a necessary component of a comprehensive diplomatic approach. Yet, as we have learned, Obama and his military advisers gave Holbrooke only lukewarm support, if that. After Holbrooke died, any clear exit strategy died with him.
I spent a year in northern Afghanistan in 2005 as U.S. diplomatic advisor to a British Army infantry unit.
In 2011, when Farishta (my novel inspired by that year) was released, the NYT published an op-ed in which I called for sustainable reconstruction and renewable energy in Afghanistan. https://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/20/opinion/20mcardle.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share
My recommendations and those of many others were ignored.
Providing Afghan farmers (more than 70% of the population) with access to village-level distributed solar and wind power instead of massive hydroelectric plants and imported energy from Central Asia, could have made that nation energy independent. Offering modest salaries for local workers to rebuild their country’s infrastructure using Afghanistan's traditional, durable, energy-efficient method of construction (thick walled, mud and straw cob) could have saved billions of dollars. Instead, foreign contractors were paid a fortune to import cement and cinder blocks. To heat and cool these uninsulated buildings we paid for diesel generators, which require imported fuel and which the locals have neither the parts nor the skills to repair. Building and repairing Afghanistan's ancient cobblestone roads using local manual labor could have provided long term employment and passable roads made with local materials. Instead we paid hundreds of millions of dollars to foreign contractors for the now disintegrating, wafer-thin asphalt highways.
Tragic.
5
The US military doesn't declare war on anybody, the civilian government does that. The top generals in the joint chiefs of staff, who are there to advise a president, are there as a result of being not only good military officers, but savvy politicians as well. If the civilian government decides to push ahead with a conflict (even if the Joint chiefs disagree), then being good military men, the top generals will give the best advice they can.
I believe the initial military/political goal in Afghanistan was to find Osama Bin Ladin and kill him. As this became harder, the goal seemed to change, to use NATO as a basis for a coalition to start nation building in Afghanistan. (Something that I suspect an awful lot of people in many countries thought was a very dubious idea) This didn't seem to phase George Bush (who had apparently ceded control of this and later Iraq, to Mr Rumsfeld and Mr Cheney. This wasn't a mistake, it was the policy of two people. Anyone with an ounce of understanding of the American intervention in Vietnam, (the pentagon papers are a good start) and The Soviet experience, earlier in Afghanistan, as just two examples, would realize this nation building would never work. You would need to have a military presence with strong popular civilain US and NATO countries support for those same decades. The question is, how were these two able to exercise so much power over the US government at this time, when so many people disagreed with them?
One detail speaks volumes. One of the best American generals who really did try to get Obama’s strategy to work, Stanley McChrystal, wrote a report on Afghanistan when he took command - 2011 or 2012 - and this report, quite rightly, contained no mention of al Qaeda (they were irrelevant since they no longer existed in Afghanistan). He submitted the report to be sent to Congress but before it got there it was returned to him and he was asked to insert references to the threat posed by, and plans to fight, al Qaeda... which he did (presumably to get budget approval). And there you have it. Those two magic words - al Qaeda - that make American politicians and military lose their reason.
We need to remember bin Laden’s strategic objective was to lure America into getting bogged down in fighting wars in Muslim countries such that it would bankrupt the country. Did no one ever think of warning Congressional oversight committees that they were in danger of fighting al Qaeda’s war for them? Al Qaeda hardly exists today, but the mark it has left on the American psyche has unleashed a far-reaching, self-harming, reaction... the entire strategic axiom of asymmetric warfare as practiced by terrorists. Terrorists can’t win but they can say with some justification, “look at what we made you do to yourselves.”
We cannot undo all the mistakes but we need to stop now from making more before it really is too late. The lesson we need to learn most? Don’t give terrorists what they want,
3
Seems to me that the lessons outlined here are the same ones we should have learned from in Vietnam: we can't clearly identify the enemy, the enemy has a sanctuary where they can hide, the host government is weak and corrupt, and we don't understand the language, history, or culture. Apparently our leaders, especially the civilian variety, have learned nothing.
Jonathan Jones, RA
No draft and a public that is pretty much uninformed or uncaring about what their government is doing in their name; what else would you expect? "A republic if you can keep it" indeed.
1
In finance there's a rule called "sunk cost" which states you don't use the money or resources already squandered on a hopeless investment to justify continued investment in it. With iits splendid little wars, the US disobeys this rule over-and-over.
1
There were similar lessons, from similar but more egregious deceitful conduct, forty some years earlier. Vietnam. We learned nothing from that, so why would Afghanistan be any different? Or Iraq? It may be true that “We were devoid of a fundamental understanding of Afghanistan — we didn’t know what we were doing,” but that may miss the real point. Which is that we didn’t care; we were just rushing off to another cause contrived, not unlike Vietnam and Iraq. And no, Mr. Hawley, the “years of half-truths and outright falsehoods” about Afghanistan are not “shocking”—they are in the vicinity of standard operating procedure.
2
Oh, come now, isn't it all painfully obvious?
Just as Professional Politicians require Endless Controversy, a professional military requires Endless War to sustain careers and a prosperous Military Industrial Complex requires Endless Destruction and Reconstruction.
1
The war in Afghanistan is merely another product of the American military/industrial/political complex. We gave up winning wars in 1945 --- everything since then has been to prove we have the greatest military in the world. Unfortunately the product is flawed. The use of National Guard and Reserve Units as a primary vehicle to deploy has brought the fight to small towns and strengthen the PR needed to support the military/industrial complex. PR and military/veterans messaging have taken the place of conquering the enemy. We would never have won WWII if we fought it in 3, 6, 9 and 12 month personnel and equipment rotations. All we’ve proven in Afghanistan/Middle East is military superiority means very little when most military personnel sit back and manage, plan, supervise, supply ,train and talk a good story
3
This is exactly what bin Laden predicted and wanted. The incompetence and stubborn stupidity of military leaders - frightened to tell the truth - the sheer dimness of Congressional oversight and refusal to challenge the generals even after a trillion dollars had been spent to no effect - and the complicit, embedded, so-called free press who acted as amplification for the lies . This whole thing is a massive exercise in American narcissism where the primary defence mechanism is always denial. Worst of all it shows that bin Laden knew you better than you knew yourselves.
The US needs to withdraw ASAP and allow Afghanistan to lick its wounds. The fact that the pointless bombing of civilians is still continuing is beyond immoral.. they’re war crimes. The Taliban is not your enemy and are no threat as terrorists. They never were.. the problem is that the Lindsay Graham’s of this world have been indoctrinated by years of deliberate misinformation from the military and they are going to struggle to face this reality. America faces much greater threats than al Qaeda and terrorism. The way forward in any event will not be better for remaining in Afghanistan and creating endless enemies for no good reason.
One last thought. Iraq was worse. Much worse. And again the unholy trinity of military misinformation, idiotic political leadership and oversight, and media cheerleaders are still failing to take responsibility for the ongoing catastrophe that is now destroying Western democracy.
15
@Jacques
Those who can stomach Tom Friedman, should check out the slavish worship of his commenters.
Friedman and the NYT could sell the Citizenry on another Iraq War, based on CIA lies, yearly.
And these people are centrist democrats...
They need to be kept away from power, and that includes the presidency.
1
@Lucy Cooke Agree. Democrats are as bad as Republicans on this - another reason why Hillary Clinton would have been a terrible president... she was the most warlike of them all in order to prove her credentials as “commander in chief.” Ironically, Trump’s instinct on military interventions, so far at least, and despite his nonsense bluster, is basically anti-war.
2
The United States hasn't learned a lesson since WWII.
1
Dog bites man. So what is new here? The promoters of our wars in Afghanistan and Iraq had, obviously, little knowledge of history. Long ago they compared the invasion of Iraq to the liberation of Nazi-occupied Europe as if Iraq were comparable to modern France or Germany under Nazi rule! Did they not live through our failed efforts in Viet Nam or failed Soviet eforts inAfghanistan? One need not look back at still more distant in history failures in Afghanistan.
4
This is exactly what bin Laden predicted and wanted. The incompetence and stubborn stupidity of military leaders - frightened to tell the truth - the sheer dimness of Congressional oversight and refusal to challenge the generals even after a trillion dollars had been spent to no effect - and the complicit, embedded, so-called free press who acted as amplification for the lies . This whole thing is a massive exercise in American narcissism where the primary defence mechanism is always denial. Worst of all it shows that bin Laden knew you better than you knew yourselves.
The US needs to withdraw ASAP and allow Afghanistan to lick its wounds. The fact that the pointless bombing of civilians is still continuing is beyond immoral.. they’re war crimes. The Taliban is not your enemy and are no threat as terrorists. They never were.. the problem is that the Lindsay Graham’s of this world have been indoctrinated by years of deliberate misinformation from the military and they are going to struggle to face this reality. America faces much greater threats than al Qaeda and terrorism. The way forward in any event will not be better for remaining in Afghanistan and creating endless enemies for no good reason.
One last thought. Iraq was worse. Much worse. And again the unholy trinity of military misinformation, idiotic political leadership and oversight, and media cheerleaders are still failing to take responsibility for the ongoing catastrophe that is now destroying Western democracy.
3
Instead of working with the corrupt and overlooking child sexual abuse, our mission should have been to shore up those areas that honor a girl’s right to education. That is worth defending like a fortress.
1
@Jill
The real path to "victory" seems to be to help enough girls attend school that they can insist their future children do the same and when those children grow up, they will run a society based on peaceful productivity and human rights.
This, obviously, will take many years and likely requires working with many people that would be jailed in the USA for their behavior, but it would be an enormous victory and benefit to the world - if we do not quit.
Now, think about Obama. He's a bright guy, right? He even ran a campaign in 2008 where one of his big selling points was, "Unlike all those other politicians out there, I'm going to keep America out of stupid wars, and pull us out of ineffective ones."
Yet, with the Afghanistan war under Obama as Commander In Chief, and said war littered with lessons, repeated lies, and outright subterfuges by our military command done at the expense of American lives and treasure, Obama learned nothing.
How to account for this failure to learn? Was Obama stupid? Nope. Was he not smart enough to see what was happening under his command for years and years? Don't think so. I think Obama knew exactly what was going on in Afghanistan (and elsewhere) and for very base reasons chose to look the other way.
The lesson I've learned from this? Obama was a bad president. The lesson you could learn from this, were you not in denial? Obama was a bad president.
PS: I'm a lifelong Democrat and I voted for Obama twice (even though by 2012 Obama's flaws and moral failures were painfully evident to me). I told my friends in 2012 that Obama was the best Republican I'd ever voted for . . .
5
Rajiv Candrasekaran wrote a book, Little America: The War Within The War for Afghanistan.”
Back in the fifties America tried to build a little America. Of course it was abandoned.
Every year of this war people have rotated into and out of Afghanistan. Never had any cohesion.
I hold Rumsfeld and especially Chaney as war criminals. Their actions ot lack there of ought to be scrutinized.
Interview them NYT!!!
3
Just going on a whim and I know it sounds silly, why no mention of Russia? After all they are now the winners, wink wink.
In 2012 or thereabouts I said to a former high official of the Bush Administration, "Time to get out of Afghanistan."
He said "my head says no but my heart says yes." Kudos to the IG -- a breed despised by the Trump administration -- for a modern version of the Pentagon papers.
General Franks complained to at least one visitor that preparations for invading Iraq had taken needed troops from Afghanistan but there is no record he ever said that to President Bush. A question that should be asked of Lt. General Douglas Lute is did he ever tell President Obama that we didn't know anything about Afghanistan.
Books by Vali Nasr, Ronan Farrow and George Packer (an extraordinary work of history) say that President Obama and his advisors, notably Gen. Jones and Lt. Gen. Lute, didn't want to hear Richard Holbrook's comparison of Afghanistan with Vietnam. The IG report suggests Holbrook (disclosure, a friend in the long ago) was spot on. Back then the Taliban might not have entered into negotiations but we never tried.
What emerges from reading the New York Times almost every day since 9/11 2001 is that your paper has supported a war against the Afghan people, when the 9/11 attackers were Saudis and their Al-Qaeda bros had a small camp in Afghanistan that could have been attacked successfully without overthrowing the Afghan government. You have supported the U.S. government agenda in Afghanistan, Iraq, Palestine, etc. The fiasco is on you as much as anyone.
5
Might have been cheeper to just pay the Taliban ½ that money than go to war with them. But no. Now we cut EBT (food stamps) and cut what little public health care we do have. We are better than that. Blame congress? What about the commanders on the ground and in the Pentagon? What are we, the British in Afghanistan? or the Russians? Work hard but work smart, don't just throw money at it.
Bravo to the Washington Post in bringing this sad story to light! What a terrible waste of money and human lives. Americans deserve to know this. The free press is doing the country a great service - even of the news is depressing.
2
Afghanistan is a religious war that cannot be won by Christian outsiders. The Afghan people need to win it themselves. Not one more American soldier should die or be maimed there. Sen. Rand Paul was right on this from the outset.
2
Incredibly tragic! This report will go down the American Memory Hole when the report should be front page news for a decade!
The Bush White House. The Bush White House. Obama wanted out but..those crazy republicans calling him a coward if he pulls out.
Maybe The citizens of the U S deserve a hearing on this. After all you bankrupted the country to take a swipe at Iraq as well. Moral bankruptcy. Grift and kill, repeat. Disaster Capitalism.
It’s been the same for 30 years In the U S.
You are not spreading democracy. You are just adding to the hate machine run by Corporatists and conservatives believing they can scam anyone and anything by buying the legislators like McConnell.
By changing a police action into wars in Afghanistan and Iraq the US under George the Lessor and Dickster Cheney and now Trump, you and this paper that advocated war have no credibility.
1
It's too late now for the US to declare victory, buy up the
annual opium crop and get out.
1
Just watched Amazon’s “The Report”, not sure we learned that lesson even though the study in the 1970’s proved torture got garbage for intel and then under Bush/Cheney two con men Psychologists were able to destroy our country in everyone’s eyes while making off with $80 million dollars while drowning people.
2
I have done a lot of reflecting about whether we learn from history, and I have concluded that we really do not learn. They say that those who don't learn from history are condemned to repeating it, and I see history repeating itself over and over because we have not and do not learn from it. The tribalism of the Republican party, where facts don't matter and don't exist has happened before. The rise of fascist (and similar) leaders has happened over and over again. History doesn't repeat itself in exactly the same way (there isn't a guy with a little mustache) but it repeats itself over and over. We have not learned very much at all from history.
1
Afghanistan been grave yard of empires. American to lazy to look at history. Exceptionalism about self or hubris.
BenLaden knew what Afghanistan was "grave yard of empires."
1
Boys with their toys. Lots of nifty weapons and things to blow up, lots of companies making billions, It's sick.
5
In what god-forsaken world would such lying not be considered the ultimate of war crimes... only in the moral vacuum of American politics!
When does the fourth estate rise to expose, in real-time, such defacing of the honor & sacrifice of the young Americans & Afghans who’ve died in the last 18 years?
3
From Rudyard Kipling's Epitaphs of the War
Common Forrm
If any question why we died,
Tell them, because our fathers lied.
4
Like Dale Carnegie said, “You never win an argument.” and this applies to wars too.
1
Shoot first, don't aim, don't ask questions and let's get it behind us, it's the American Way, except when Raytheon, General Dynamics, Northrop Grumman and Boeing are concerned. In that case, let the atrocities continue for perpetuity.
3
As Bette Dam has explained in her book the Taliban offered to negotiate a peace after it had been beaten in 2001. But US politicians arrogantly rejected their offer.
Success has many fathers but failure is an orphan. And compromise is quite lonely too.
2
Why would anyone wonder why the US citizenry is cynical? This kind of thing is endemic to our society. Since Vietnam we have heard a litany of lies about the international goings on. We are being governed by self serving elected amateurs who have no interest in learning anything. A bunch of dummies are running this country and its international interests.
3
"We think dying for our country, we die for industrialists"
Anatole France
3
Immediately after 9/11, everyone I knew was so gung ho to attack Afghanistan. To point out that in 20 years we would look back and realize what a colossal failure, as Afghanistan was well known to be the “graveyard of empires”, was to be labeled a wimp at best and a traitor at worst.
Oh, well. On to the next quagmire.
3
The Russians warned us. And looking at a map of the country, without considering the culture, should have raised a red flag. Fools rush in.
1
Afghanistan?
At least Afghanistan had a slightly rational reason for its initiation.
Iraq!
Lies and coverups, not from the start, but for the start.
Lies costing thousands of American lives and billions of American dollars and uncounted numbers of Iraqi citizens' lives and livings.
Any why?
Weapons of mass destruction?
The ultimate lie.
And yet the trio of perpetrators was never inconvenienced for their slaughter of their countrymen.
George W. himself was treated to a second term, and today, from time to time appears, smiling and waving, from the first tee of some Texas golf course while his victims, American men and Women, decompose in underground holes.
2
War is politics by other means. The first and foremost thing the leaders must understand is WHAT IS THE NATURE OF THE WAR.
We failed to do that, as we have many times...and here we are again.
Just this past summer, the New York Times published an article titled: “A School With No Heat or Computers but Many College-Bound Students. Mostly Girls.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/27/world/asia/afghanistan-education-girls.html
The last few days of “oh woe is us Afghanistan has been nothing but a disaster we’ve been lied to lied to lied to” makes it sound as if there is not a single good thing happening anywhere in Afghanistan. America is not ‘winning,’ has never been ‘winning,’ so the entire country is just a lost cause.
In the back of my mind I thought I had read an article, somewhere, about Afghan girls going to school, so I did a quick search. Look at the photo heading the article in that link—girls trekking over mountains to learn math and hopefully go to university. I wish Americans had their drive.
I don’t know whether our presence helped to spark or snuff this glimmer of light. The article says, “foreign aid has dried up.” Why is that? What’s happening in this remote village is the future of the country. Taliban free, these girls are going to school.
Maybe we did more harm than good. But, there is light, and hope, in the minds of some people in Afghanistan. As the wealthiest nation on earth, it should be our goal to focus that light because people like these are the future of Afghanistan.
Has no good come of this at all?
1
So Donald "Help" Rumsfeld, Dick "We'll be welcomed as heroes" Cheney and George "I love my dad" Bush got us into a 19-year mess.
The American military's self-serving lies kept us in. Thousands of lives lost, hundreds of thousands maimed. For what?
The U.S. military budget needs to be cut in half.
5
You just have to wonder if anybody anywhere has read any Afghan history. This is a country that has undergone foreign invasions since ancient times, from India, Greece, the Mongols, later the British and more recently the Russians. The Afghans base their national pride on the fact that this land has never been colonized. This is not fertile ground for foreigners who, one after the next, have been forced out. These new Pentagon papers just demonstrate that the current situation in Afghanistan is different -- but the same.
1
What happened in Afghanistan is what always happens in unspecified wars: military contractors get richer and soldiers die. History teaches us nothing.
3
If I was an American citizen I would be really angry. This just can’t go on.
I heard that Americans buy bottled water for 20 billion a year. Ralph Nader argued that for those money quite a lot could be done to make better water quality. They wasted trillions in those stupid wars. All those good investments in infrastructure lost.
The unipolar moment sure was expensive.
And like the 2008 financial crisis no one will be held accountable.
2
Vietnam, Iraq and now Afghanistan makes all our talk about freedom and democracy pure hypocrisy. The US has an imperialist foreign policy and continues to lie to the American people in order to keep the profits flowing and it's illusions of power.
5
Lessons Learned, indeed. Learned in Viet Nam, forgotten in Afghanistan, only to be forgotten the next time civilian leaders want to flex their weak muscles at others’ expense.
1
Take a page out of the Vietnam debacle: Declare victory and leave. That's one lesson...the only one...we will have learned.
3
Gee, and here I thought politicians took money from corporations to be re-elected to do work for the people. You know, the raytheons, honeywells, boeing, etc. give money and expect nothing in return. Funny how that works.
2
Misleading us began long before Afghanistan. It began when media began and "spin" was invented: Korea, Vietnam and all the duchies in the Middle East. It's been perpretrated by both policital parties, from Bill Clinton's venial "spins" to Bush's outright mortal "lies."
Amazing, is it not, how words get twisted to serve the so-called "greater goal." T.S. Eliot put it this way:
“Words strain,
Crack and sometimes break, under the burden,
Under the tension, slip, slide, perish,
Decay with imprecision, will not stay in place,
Will not stay still.”
It's the "imprecision," often known as "lies" that caused Danté to put liars on the Inferno's lowest ring. We can't say we haven't been warned.
1
Had the planners bothered to read even a smidgen of Afghan history they would have known that no foreign power has ever succeeded. It is not strength that matters, it is the will. And that belongs to the Taliban.
3
Is there something broken about our military academies that today's audacious George S. Pattons are now converted into see-no-evil go-alongs playing up to whoever's in charge?
The pursuit of Truth is even more important in the military services than in the diplomatic corps, the rot in which we saw played out in living color during the hearings at the Clown College meeting in the U.S. Capitol basement.
When Truth is intentionally covered over in war, needless risks become acceptable and good people are often harmed for NO good reason.
The inventive mechanic can find things to 'fix' in the best car, and the inventive warrior can easily be seduced by the prospect of victories-for-a-day in a place that no civilization has ever improved.
The trusted detectives James Crockett and Ricardo Tubbs of old Miami would tell you to 'blow this popstand' pronto and to go find a place that can be fixed, or at least improved.
Capitalists who invest their money in the arms industry have been increasing their fortune with the war in Afghanistan. That is why the United States’ military is there. In the meantime America has made itself the enemy of the entire Muslim world, which represents one quarter of humanity. Why should we be surprised when a Muslim becomes psychotic in the Pensacola navy base and kills Americans? Americans shouted at Russians that they were breaking international law when they occupied Ukrainian territory but said nothing when Israel occupied Palestinian territory.
1
So we’ve wasted a little over 2.5 trillion dollars for regime change, the ousting of al-Qaeda. Al-Qaeda is gone but that’s about it. What does that amount to? 500 million dollars per al-Qaeda person spent?
At least Halliburton and the other defense contractors made out like bandits. (pun intended).
So where does this leave us?
America, at the risk of alienating our precious defense contractors, I advocate recalling ALL American troops back home. No foreign military engagements. Will the world be better off? No. But we will have saved 2.5 trillion dollars needed for other things like schools, roads, research and development, and infrastructure. I advocate buying a new Congress and Defense Department with that money, maybe ones not so inept.
But as long as the defense contractors hold sway, lining the pockets of our politicians, I expect our troops to continue to die needlessly, our children to languish in poverty, while hundreds, if not thousands of Islamic extremists live and thrive.
Is radical Islam OK? No. Quite the contrary. But we must develop a new way of combatting them, like not combating them.
Bring our troops home. Let the world go to hell. Develop lethal defensive capabilities because they will come after us, repeatedly, until they learn. Let the rest of the world do business with the extremists. It’s horrendously expensive and it’s futile. Maybe in this way we’ll have defeated our enemies without firing a shot.
Because that’s what they’re doing to us.
1
“The type of guerilla-style fighting that Alexander the Great faced during the Afghan campaign was described centuries later by the chronicler Plutarch, who compared Afghan tribesmen to a hydra-headed monster: as soon as Alexander cut off one head, three more would grow back in its place.”
Finally he figured out the correct strategy – leave Afghanistan. That was over 2300 years ago. US still can’t get it.
Afghanistan is an illusion. It has always been since Alexander the Great narched in to find a series of warring tribes and later commented that "Bactria" as it was known then was, "...easy to March into but hard to get out of."
Our strategic nation building effort, like the British and Russian occupations is and always has been futile efforts of perpetual tactics just as South Vietnam was.
With no viable political endgame we have an 18 year old quagmire.
Among the Lessons Learned is one particularly troubling one that is difficult to talk about, our societal acceptance of lying.
There is a telling observation by Gen. Michael Flynn in the WP report that speaks to this:
"U.S. Army brigade and battalion commanders were given the same basic mission: to protect the population and defeat the enemy,...
So they all went in ... and were given that mission, accepted that mission and executed that mission... Then they all said, when they left, they accomplished that mission. Every single commander. Not one commander is going to leave Afghanistan . . . and say, ‘You know what, we didn’t accomplish our mission.’ ”
In other words, every commander lied about the results of their mission, as did Gen. Flynn later who was convicted of lying to the FBI.
This war has produced a generation of military leaders whose word cannot be trusted. Combine that with politicians who deservedly rank low in trust and you have a greater cancer than John Dean spoke of in Nixon's presidency.
2
Who didn't know that what is happening in Afghanistan is an ethnic sectarian civil war being exploited by both regional powers and foreign superpowers?
A Cuba and Vietnam historical redux rerun. Avarice plus hubris guarantees defeat.
The root of Afghanistan's struggles against colonial conquerors rest in the ethnic Pashtun quest for a nation state where they are a majority. While the Pashtun are a 40% plurality of Afghans a majority of them live in Pakistan where they are a mere 15% of Pakistanis.
Although the Taliban is all Pashtun, not all Pashtun are Taliban. And while the ethnic Tajik, Uzbek etc. Afghan minorities may be in opposition to the Pashtun. they are also as much against the Americans as they were the Soviets and the Russians. The Taliban hasn't threatened to attack nor attacked the American homeland.
Finally, they don't call Afghanistan the 'Graveyard of Empires' for nothing. As Alexander the Great, Queen Victoria and Mikhail Gorbachev learned from being repeatedly humbled by these fierce mountain warriors across the millennia.
3
Over the past two months something extraordinary happened in Afghanistan. Local Nangarhar Province Elders and Local Afghan Government officials defeated the Islamic State in Kurasan. Over 1000 mostly Afghan and Pakistan Orakzai fighters with their families surrendered. None were delivered to the Central Governments of Afghanistan or Pakistan. The were repatriated back to their elders and tribes. Those foreign ISIS fighters unwilling to surrender are being hunted in the mountains by local militia and eliminated. All this accomplished without US, Kabul Government or Central Pakistan Government Diplomats, Military or known politicians. This was accomplished by local leaders on both sides of the Durand Line which exists on maps and Central Government documents but not to the people who have lived here for the last 1000 years. Locals have been telling us how to end this war for a long time, and every NATO military leader and State Department official heard that one can't end this war without facing Pakistan's greed and fear of India that drives its support of the insurgent mafia and extremist groups who fight the proxy war which is the Afghan conflict. Those innocent civilians referred to as "Collateral Damage?" That's us in a gunfight with a liquor store holdup man on a crowded bus. When we have listened and worked with the people who actually live in the contested areas, the outcome is much better. Works in New York too.
1
Is anyone surprised a tranche of documents reveal the Bush administration didn't know what they were doing? We're talking about the same government who invaded Iraq without thinking that maybe Sunnis and Shiites might not get along. Is it any wonder Rumsfeld was completely ignorant about the cultural and social dynamics governing Afghanistan?
After the failure at Tora Bora, the US government was left with two choices. Surrender Afghanistan to the Taliban or stay there indefinitely. Both Bush and Obama chose to stay there indefinitely. Obama at least produced Bin Laden's death. However, the overall situation is not much improved. His legacy had already fueled legions of anti-American energy into a well organized insurgency. The damage was done. The choice remains the same.
Trump keeps flirting with Nixon-style surrender in Afghanistan. However, he is constrained just as his predecessors were. How do you surrender while avoiding the political costs of surrender? Americans don't like defeat. They especially don't like defeat when Americans were force fed a decade's worth of 9/11 brouhaha and the war on terror.
Trump is attempting to surrender quietly by simply failing to replace rotating units. His gamble is he can unilaterally surrender but the US-backed Afghan government won't collapse until after the 2020 election. In which case, he doesn't care what happens in Afghanistan. Not until the next terrorist attack makes him look bad. That's the general calculus.
Lessons never learnt. examples are Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan and many others (Bangladesh, Somalia). reasons of foreign policy failures are:
1) US was not a honest broker though they think they are because they are powerful and can get away with anything
2) they always presented inflated or false reasons to get involved
3) they sided with apparent wrong side who does not have popular support of mass
4) us cannot forget the ego of power and arrogance when they go internationally
1
"You can take the person out of the Stone Age, not the Stone Age out of the person" according to the theory of evolutionary psychology as to how the human mind came to be constructed.
“We were devoid of a fundamental understanding of Afghanistan — we didn’t know what we were doing,” sums up very clearly of the quagmire of American military escapade in Afghanistan.
An article in Harvard Business review named motions Before Reason “in an uncertain world, those who survived always had their emotional radar—call it instinct turned on. And Stone Age people, at the mercy of wild predators or impending natural disasters, came to trust their instincts above all else. That reliance on instinct undoubtedly saved human lives, allowing those who possessed keen instincts to reproduce. So for human beings, no less than for any other animal, emotions are the first screen to all information received”.
Inability to fundamentally understand of foe in distant foreign world of Afghanistan may be be explained away as an extreme form of evolutionary psychology — the view that many behaviours of modern humans were genetically hard-wired in our distant ancestors by natural selection.
2
So, we now have proof from our own military that they cannot solve Afghanistan. They do not have the capability, nor will they likely ever have such capability to make Afghanistan an adequately functioning country. So, what is the response of Congress?...stay in Afghanistan. It’s insane. We cannot fix it, so we continue to stay with no chance of ever fixing it. Who does that?
Our best military skills seem to be two skills: bombing and invading. After that our military capabilities take a real nosedive.
“The American government refuses to be honest with itself.” — I think it’s more accurate to say the American government always looks out for itself through lies or whatever means necessary, even if it results in the countless deaths of people here and/or overseas.
1
The neocons of the administration of George W.Bush knew we had no hope for victory in Afghanistan when they chose to lie to us about Saddam Hussein supporting terrorism, in spite of what experts, including Jerrold Post, told us. The subsequent diversionary invasion of Iraq is still unresolved as one of the Bush flunkies disbanded Saddam's. military. Our missteps have made a mess wherever we go. "Mission Accomplished" will be the lie that will forever maintain George W. Bush as one of our worst presidents - until Donald J.Trump.
1
OF COURSE we're being misled.
Deception and manipulation are key to keeping a war going forever.
Start off with a dramatic enough event and you can con people into anything.
Why was it necessary in the NDAA (2012?) to include the authorization of propaganda against the American public? That allowed the chipping away of our democratic republic. For shame.
Perhaps the members of the editorial board are too young to remember that these lessons were available to be learned from the Vietnam War. But they weren't.
The only ‘Lesson Learned’ that I can think of is that this first, unique, and last 21st century Disguised Global Crony Capitalist Empire — only nominally HQed in, and merely ‘posing’ as, our formerly “promising” and sometimes progressive country (PKA) America, but has found out how to wage war when no other modern enemy “can be invented” — is to invent a shift from fighting the former Soviet “Evil Empire” (aren’t they all, Ronnie?) to fighting a faux-war against the 13th century country that beat the Soviet Empire.
1
Until we stop conflating “patriotism” and completely blind support for our massively overfunded military industrial complex, these “wars to nowhere” will just keep happening.
1
Back at the start of this whole Afghan thing, Afghanis claimed that great armies had tried to conquor them before and failed. That they had...
Resisted Alexander
Resisted Great Britain
Resisted Russia
And now they've succeeded pretty much succeeded in resisting the US.
Oh well... insert gratuitous comment about learning from history and repetition here.
Rumsfeld called Afghanistan a target-poor environment even before the American invasion. We should pull out now and let the Taliban build some respectable targets that they would not want to lose.
Vietnam, Afghanistan. Nothing will change because there's too much money to be made by private individuals and the MIC, all paid for by young American men and women. Ravenous Greed is the motivating factor in our society and will be our downfall if we continue on the same path.
No doubt that 32,000 civilian deaths is another screaming lie. The real number is probably an unbelievable toll worthy of international war-crimes prosecution.
What number should we assign to this question:
How much richer did the 1% investment class become, investing in all the rockets and bombs used in the thousands of air-strikes?
After the world-class disaster that has been and is Iraq, how could we just roll-over and do the almost same thing again in Afghanistan?
The Saudi's blamed our polluting presence in Muslim holy land for the attacks of 9/11 and yet somehow we justify our continued intervention and death-dealing because of an insensate belief that by being there and killing more innocent people we will be reducing the possibility of future terrorism.
This war on terrorism promiscuously unleashes more bloodshed on a world that knows who is to blame, and without real military options, more terror is the only weapon it has to make us answer for our crimes.
The Saudi Pensacola shooter, "...I hate you because every day you support funding and are committing crimes not only against Muslims, but also humanity."
Yes, let's just keep on killing to stop the killing.
1
“Your job was not to win, it was to not lose"
that seems apposite with the war in Vietnam
where the US won every battle
but lost the war
I think it is foolish to think that this war was started without a plan. There was a concrete plan alright, not in the interest of Americans or the Afghans. Remember Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, and the other prominent figure heads who cooked up stories to go to war in Iraq and on to Afghanistan. They never had an exit strategy, all they had in mind was dump a lot of bombs and make the military industrial complex uber rich. The show has been going on for close to two decades now, while hard working Americans have been paying with their wallets. Yes, democrats are equally responsible for this debacle because they never had the spine to challenge the status quo and change policy. What moral right, for that matter any right, do we have to go to any country, destroy it and continue our transgressions there indefinitely when we have not been truthful and transparent to our own citizens. As a naturalized citizen, I cannot help but wonder, what is the future of the American Experiment?
3
Blood, treasure, obscene amounts of money and filthy lies. How many times, in how many places have we seen this movie yet we keep coming back for more? Where's the next war going to be?
One shudders at the myriad of choices, so we might as well try them all. And thanks to the next generations of sophisticated military and entertainment technology, the next generations of Americans will sacrifice themselves and their fellow Americans with more and more perverse video games to keep themselves addicted to the insanity of it all.
1
Add George W. Bush's war in Iraq to this list. Nothing really was accomplished in that war, besides spending trillions of dollars, losing tens of thousands of innocent Iraqi's, losing thousands of American lives and emboldening Iran.
2
Right from the beginning there were lessons to be learned about fighting in Afghanistan, no one ever wins--not the English, not the Soviets and on it goes. At the time I thought the goal was go into Afghanistan and get Bin Laden then leave. What did Afghanistan have to do with 9/11 or for that matter Iraq? All lies from the very beginning and so many lives lost..................
1
What is shocking is that no one who was/is in charge read a book about Vietnan. Even more shocking is those who may have read one did not learn any lessons.
Only a universal - and I mean universal - draft will stop this madness. When a Senator must send his beautiful 18 year old daughter to the front lines to die, he will make darn sure it's a cause worth dying for.
This was know at the start.
It was reported.
It just wasn't acknowledged.
1
Anyone with any knowledge of the history of the Vietnam era would have heard echoes of William Westmoreland, Robert Macnamara, Lyndon Johnson and Dean Rusk in all of the comments of Petraeus and the other generals, and in Bush, Rice, Rummy, Obama and the rest.
Neither the main article nor any of the comments I have read so far makes any mention of the event that provoked the invasion of Afghanistan. That event is the elephant in the room in this conversation (hint: it happened on the eleventh of September, 2001) and unless it too was a conspiracy (is the NYT, based in New York, really suggesting it was?) it puts paid to the absurd idea that the 2002 military operation was a conspiracy. America was shocked. The world was shocked. Against all expectations it was the US, not a European ally, that invoked article 5 of the NATO treaty ("Help!"). NATO came to your aid. The real question (also ignored in this article) is whether the war would have had more success if Bush had not squandered lives, time and resources on his quixotic adventure in Iraq. I am immensely proud of my own country for supporting the one war (just) and not the other (unjust). What else was the US to do in 2001? Just shrug?
We need a mind set in this country that heroes come in all shapes and sizes. Yes, there are military heroes. But those who keep us out of war, or limit how long we fight it when it is becoming obvious we have little more to gain, are also heroes.
Perhaps if we had required national service, not just military, with no excuses, and we had a special surtax fo pay for these wars, so people could see what it is costing in real time, we might not make these mistakes.
I might be wrong, but I bet this approach would save a lot of blood and treasure.
Vietnam 2.0. And thousands and thousands of my brothers and sisters dead or with PTSD, moral injury, and devastating physical injuries. And for what? If you want to support the troops, then demand peaceful solutions, not endless war.
3
I wrote the other day that I teach a university class on the Vietnam War and discuss in class the parallels between that conflict and the one in Afghanistan. No two conflicts are exactly alike however it seems that any lessons we might have learned from Vietnam are lost to the civilian and military leadership of today. Furthermore judging from the fact that this war has continued through 3 presidents from both parties without any discernible strategy or end game suggests that it will never end. War has become an industry at the expense of everything else we could be doing domestically right now. LBJ had to sacrifice his "Great Society" at the altar of Vietnam and it seems like we are doing the same today
3
The information in this report should not have come as news to anyone who was paying attention. The invasion of Afghanistan was a huge mistake, and entirely unnecessary. It was done to provide a show of American power after the terrible humiliation of 9/11, supposedly to bring Osama bin Laden to justice. The government of Afghanistan had offered to turn bin Laden over to a third party -- the Dutch -- so he could be tried in the ICC, but that was not enough for the US, which does not recognize the validity of such international organizations, and needed to take action in the true American way -- extra-judicially. It was all hubris, and totally ignored the lesson of the Russian experience there.
1
Our generals, our political leaders -- why did they not know at that time? All were well educated under the liberal arts model and they had general knowledge of a range of subjects that would have informed their military decisions and supplemented their expertise. Why were they ignorant of the parameters of the invasions of Alexander, the British, the Sikhs, and the Russians? Did they succumb to the "unknown unknowns" that Rumsfeld alluded to, or to the "known unknowns" that General Shinseki pointed out prior to the invasion of Iraq.
Since Vietnam was "my war" so to speak. I would like to add that the saddest thing about the Afghan war is that we learned nothing from Vietnam. Every time I read or saw info about the "progress" or direction in Afghanistan, I swear I was having flashbacks about what Westmoreland, et.al said about Vietnam. Talk about history repeating itself!
2
Had General Lute and his colleagues actually listened to the experts sent over to Afghanistan to advise them--such as those from the State Department--maybe they would have not been "devoid" of fundamental knowledge about the country. But instead they ignored those delegations and sent them home. To say that the expertise was absent is absolutely false. The truth is that the military didn't want to hear what diplomats and country experts had to say.
1
The reality is no US Official can publicly admit defeat without incurring the wrath of "red blooded" Americans who think the US can do no wrong. This has always been the situation.
Thought experiment: try to think of a case where the US has admitted a mistake, apologized, said it will learn from the mistake and ensure it will not happen again.
1
Funny thing -- an awful lot of Americans knew this all along. They had simply read the newspapers, watched the Vietnam war, listened to the banal boosterism of the generals. Or read Report from Iron Mountain - published in 1967. How come our government didn't know it? Same reason they won't know it next time: they don't want to, as it would make most wars untenable.
2
One can only hope that the tragedy of Afghanistan will cause a profound rethinking of flawed concept of Pax Americana. One can think of dozens of positive ways the the two trillion spent on the Iraq & Afghanistan fiascos could have been spent domestically. And meanwhile, whie the USA has been fighting thee useless wars, China has been buying up the world, without firing a shot.
3
They will fight us for a thousand years.
And if we are still there, they fight us for a thousand more.
I don't even blame them.
I can't really blame 'the government, industry, etc.'
It is our fault. We don't care. Not a priority.
Absolutely no interest whatsoever.
As I type this, there are only 127 comments on this nearly 24 hour old article. Many excellent comments, but only 127 posters.
We "Support The Troops" by buying a load of flags and gimcracks. Donating canned goods and blankets. Remodeling the occasional house or buying a van. Waving at a parade, wearing a flag pin. Forward and like 'brave veteran' stories on social media.
They are 'nice' things to do. Makes us feel better.
Fundamentally devoid of meaning or influence.
Lets us tune out 'war news' and return to watching whatever we're watching this year.
We don't care enough to stop.
1
Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan -- to name the longer-lasting ones. One wonders who truly knew they were hopeless, but they were profitable, so they continued, despite loss of life -- almost like the drug companies, the cigaret companies, the chemical companies that promoted products leading to death.
As the American presence across the world, post-WWII, began to wither, we could not give up the patriotic notion that American was not a country that could lose, ever. Even when, ongoing, it meant lives sacrificed. All the while, silent economic interest, particularly oil, was making slick money. And still is.
With Trump in power, with his ability to fire up his base, and with the world's political-economic leadership uncertain -- we can only wonder what wars will next befall America's future. And given the fire-power still resident, with money always lavished on the military -- what kind of damage might be done to the U.S. people, and the world's population.
Any amount of lessons can be heaped upon people -- but learning means change, and that is a completely different matter.
2
Money. All those billions have kept us there. It would be interesting to know whose pockets were most deeply lined but then that's why we have been there so we'll never really know.
2
Anyone who knew anything about Afghanistan in 2001 understood that this "mission" would not end well. Just before and as the war started, the Taliban offered to try Bin Laden themselves or expel him to a third country. Bush refused both offers, even though either could have prevented this now-endless war.
Cheney, Rumsfeld, and their acolytes -- not least John Bolton -- wanted the war. Fighting in Afghanistan offered the US a footprint in the Middle East easily sold to the American public while an excuse was cooked up for the real aim: a war against Iraq.
Now we are embroiled in a true hot mess, sold with lies as endless as the death we have dealt. Aside from irreplaceable lives and families who will never be whole, we've spent or will spend, by the Times' reckoning, something like $3.5 trillion. If that money had been directed toward climate mitigation. . . but never mind. Cheney got his wars, the military-industrial complex got richer, and we, as Bush advised after 9/11, continued to "shop as usual" (to quote Negativeland).
4
Here is a test to check whether to get involved in a foreign situation.
Ask a representative sample of Americans if they can find the place on an unmarked map. If less than 50 % can, stay out. In that case the decision makers are likely to know very little either. And one could put the number higher.
1
@Scandiman
Amusing, but not quite right.
I have to admit, if you had given me an unmarked map when the Russian incursion into Crimea occurred, I couldn't have identified Crimea. I made myself knowledgeable on the situation. Sadly, I would venture that most Americans couldn't find Crimea on a map today.
I hate to tell you this, but most Americans would have trouble finding Finland. If Russia, right next door to you, made incursions your way, would you like us to check how many Americans could identify Finland on a map?
2
Vietnam all over again, without a merciful rout to end it!
Our meddling in the Vietnam civil war was presaged by a failed French attempt. Our meddling in the continual civil wars in Afghanistan was presaged by the failed Soviet invasion of 1979.
Let's consider a grim possibility! The American military/industrial complex instigates our involvement in conflicts halfway around the world to provide continual deployment and economic justification for our massive military power, which far exceeds the defense needs of the United States.
Eisenhower warned us, but we forgot.
2
Not sure how anyone who looked at a newspaper or turned on a news program or talked to anyone in the military in the past few years could have believed the reports of our succeeding in Afghanistan. Seriously? Nearly 20 years later and whatever the spin is we are supposed to believe this is what success looks like? There was once a 30 years war in Europe. Looks like we are headed that way.....
Increasingly, my country is not the country I was brought up to think it was. Probably it never was.
Maybe we have all bought some brand of snake oil at some point in our lives. Transparency? Is there really any such thing in government?
3
Unlike Viet Nam, Afghanistan harbored an enemy of the United States in the form of Al-Qaeda. After the 9/11 attacks, the American people demanded a military response against bin Laden. It wasn't unreasonable to go after Osama bin-Laden. He was almost captured in Tora Bora in December of 2001, but according to Frontline, Donald Rumsfeld refused to provide CIA fighters with additional military support which might have cut off bin-Laden's retreat into Pakistan.
It's questionable, considering American demands for retribution after the shock and horror of the 9/11 attacks, that we would have been satisfied with killing bin-Laden and returning home.
If we look back on our invasion of Afghanistan without recalling the high emotion of the time, we will fail to fully recognize how we got into the quagmire.
The Afghanistan fiasco is the result of reckless incompetence by the Bush administration (Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, Powell et al); Jingoistic US domestic politics where realistic foreign policy decisions cannot be made because they are immediately politicized; and Daniel Patrick Moynihan's well known adage that no officer corps ever lost a war. The US was never going to make the commitment that would be required to pacify Afghanistan. The sainted David Petraeus posited that it would require a "Reliable" force (ie. US plus European allies) of some 625,000 men for at least 10 years, plus the expenditure of trillions on this force and social programs. This was inconceivable. 18 years later we have spent or will face legacy costs of trillions, have caused the deaths of thousands, and achieved nothing. The protestations of ignorance for Congress are nonsense. This reality has been apparent for years to ordinary citizens from an intelligent reading of newspapers so Senators on the Armed Services Committee have no excuse.
2
@John Hindsight is 20/20. At the time 72% of the populous supported the invasion. Democracy, bro.
Iran will never accept a liberal democracy to be set up next door, let alone one with US military bases. Religious leaders in Saudi Arabia and Pakistan will not either. The US invasion may have seemed an appropriate response to the American public after 9/11, but a realistic exit strategy did not exist.
If military and civilian leaders are honest, the US will admit defeat and leave Afghanistan, and leave the people of that country to deal with the consequences.
1
@gkm
Iran has nothing do with the situation in Afghanistan where they are not a player!
1
The invasion did not seem “appropriate” to the American public—but the huge demonstrations against going to war failed to convince our leaders.
George W Bush and his cronies have a heck of a lot to answer for, but instead are enjoying comfortable retirements. Shame!
According to Wikipedia, "International public opinion on the war in Afghanistan", polls showed strong support for the war in Afghanistan among the American public following 9/11.
Some reports have stated that the Taliban are being armed and trained by Iran. "Iran 'trains Taliban fighters' in four camps" - The Telegraph. Certainly they are receiving help from outside of Afghanistan.
Most everyone agrees the present situation is untenable.
So what do we do?
Walk away?
We partition Afghanistan. We stay in the North, allow the Afghan government and the Taliban to decide on southern government. We administer the north as we did in Japan, Germany, after WWII. We wait to see if the south adheres to its claim it will fight further extremism.
And we provide refugee status in the north to any women, families from the south, asking for it.
And we tell Pakistan, this time, to stay out of Afghan business.
The Russians were in Afghanistan bankrupting themselves for more than 25 years before they gave up, went home, and broke their own country into pieces. The US government laughed at Russia, then, but then went and did the same thing over global antiwar protests. The only winners are the tools of war manufacturers and their lobbyists.
3
Fabrications from the George W. Bush cabinet got us into this war. No one in charge paid attention to the lessons of history which uniformly demonstrated that Afghanistan is and continues to be a geographic area dominated by ethnic Warlords who have no understanding of how representative governments work. This warlord culture values dominance over accomodation and basic human rights. We can never install a democractic form of government in Afghanistan backed up by our armed forces. Is it too much for us as to act responsibly by pulling our troops out of Afghanistan so funds dedicated to our failure there can be used to fight climate change?
3
Shock and surprise.
Afghanistan did not go well? Who knew? It has looked like such a grand success from here. (sarcasm)
Pentagon Papers Redux. They did an internal review, then tried to hide it, and meant to ignore it too.
So someone finally leaked it.
Aren't leaks grand? Really, they are.
When your ox is gored, usually you deserved that and should have known better. The leak is still true, and truth is good.
5
Leaks? This material was released after litigation.
1
I served in the US Marines from 1989-1993, witnessing the tremendous geopolitical change from a unique vantage point. The first nation I visited overseas was Germany in late 1990, right after reunification. I was a proud young American, with a humble, prudent, but inarticulate president. America had made many mistakes in its past, but we seemed to be moving in the right direction.
It is really depressing to see where we are now. I am still shocked that we invaded Iraq, that we are still in Afghanistan, and Donald Trump is our president. American history from 9/11 to today is truly profound. Back in late 1991, I remember looking at the Soviet Union and wondering what it was like to feel utterly disillusioned at what had happened to their empire. Now I fully understand, and they are getting their revenge by dividing us and weakening us even further.
7
@William I yes. Bin Laden permanently damaged the US psyche and drove it to enormous self-harm. He knew you better than you knew yourselves.
fought there as a young Soviet buck in 1985... The Russians did not waste nearly as much there. On the contrary, they imported a bunch of young kids (boys and girls alike) into the USSR and educated them in school universities. To this day, Afghans of my generation (50+) speak passable (some very good) Russian. We were well on our way to pacifying the country, if not for the CIA-supported (and that is a fact) and funded Osama-bin-Laden types. In its quest to win over the major global foe (the Soviet Union), this country has thrown the Afghan people under the bus and walked away (lost all interest after the battle was won and we withdrew). Cold hard facts...
3
Those who fail from the mistakes of history....England could not subjugate Afghanistan in the 19th century, the Soviet Union could not in the 20th century, why was the US so arrogant they could think that they'd be able to control the country in the 21st century? OK, leave that aside. Next question what is the basis for thinking that a nation that consists of numerous tribes, cultures, living essentially in a system based middle aged style cronyism and corruption (which had worked for them in terms of rejecting outsider control;), was ready for democracy? Strategically being an influencer rather than imposer could have worked better. Plus, even at the time, the evidence was not particularly convincing, and the US got baited into a morass. Politically kind of embarrassing since US outspends Russia by about 10x ($600 billion to $ 60 billion per year). Perhaps the real "deep state analogy" is that a war in Afghanistan was started to pump up military stocks and military govt spending on which the US unquestionably leads the world on so that those in on the deal could make bank.
At the risk of sounding cynical, while stating the obvious, Afghanistan, like many military conflicts and wars, advance political and military careers, and transfer tax payer wealth to the military-industrial-complex. Then the military-industrial-complex feeds tax deducible money back to politicians, who keep the wheels of conflict and war spinning. Money and power will eventually corrupt any good intentions or legitimate actions to protect our nation.
9
This is a non story. It's been obvious after this length of time, the misdirection and spin. What it should do is temper our teary eyed submission to the military myth that we have been subjected to over my lifetime...that of heroic American actions to protect freedom and the downtrodden. The evidence since WW ll has been scant (perhaps Korea and Iraq 1 are exceptions). Otherwise our military escapades have been projections of power pure and simple. They justify and give life to the military industrial complex that underlies the economy of so many regions of our country (SC, CT, VA, Southern California, TX etc. etc.). We've wasted vast resources. And now under Trump, we have even lost the respect of allies. The real scandal are the untold number of lives lost and massive casualties of civilians and combatants on both sides. The next time there is a Flyover at a sporting event, or another movie about the suffering of a soldier who was a sniper/killer, we should carefully reflect on the reality. It's mixed at best and certainly not heroic.
3
Vietnam and Afghanistan are two wars separated by about 25 years that are identical in their result: Quagmire and loss. More importantly, they are identical in their inception: Pride and ignorance.
It seems that when it comes to war, America has an institutional problem starting with Presidents who cannot plan, Congress’ that will not authorize and oversee the plan, and a Pentagon that cannot execute the plan tactically and lies about it.
What ever happened to the Powell Doctrine?
3
Doesn’t anyone have ideas on a way out? Can we simply adopt the original plan: get rid of the group who attacked us on 9/11 and nothing more? Then see if we have, and if so, go home? A “win” of the original objective.
Or has this become a war to impose our culture on a foreign country? If so, absent all out war, including use of any and all weapons in our arsenal, we will not win. But our country has yet to agree to use nuclear weapons to secure religious freedom or women’s rights for people in other countries. We continue to fail to learn than nation building is a pipe dream in places that don’t ask for it, and one with no limit in cost.
Maybe if there was a vital left wing in American political culture pacifistic views would have a more influential voice. The right wing accuses the NY Times of representing left wing politics, and yet their editorial was mostly gung-ho for the invasion of Iraq.
After the disaster of Vietnam, many of us us in harms way via exposure to the draft became life long pacifists, including veterans that experienced the horrors of that war.
However, that influence was not enough to counter the overall sense of our people that America is virtually omnipotent militarily.
One wonders of the influence of the military industrial complex in sustaining this thinking after so much disaster.
The clearest link is by way of Dick Cheney who got a free ride from the media while the corporation he was CEO of (and still owned part of) made millions from no-bid contracts in that war after he helped persuade the president and the country that the invasion was justified under false pretenses.
Our press simply doesn't seem to be up to the task of taking on billion dollar corporations of any type. Weather it involves military or health care, the influence of money wins.
7
It is as disheartening as it is unsurprising to read this.
The U.S. debacle in Vietnam and Soviet misadventures in Afghanistan are just two of the more recent examples of the need of a coherent objective and realistic exit strategy.
The American military-industrial complex still rules. Lessons learned: None.
1
@Alan R Brock - I disagree, the lessons learned from Vietnam include not sending draftees from the general public to fight wars of empire, and to co-opt and control the media.
The US lost the war in Afghanistan the moment they diverted their military resources towards the invasion of Iraq. Their only chance in Afghanistan lay in quickly crushing the Taliban as a fighting force. In 2002, the Taliban had been soundly defeated and were at the mercy of the coalition forces, and had no support from any other nation or entity. All that was required was administering the coup de grace.
The situation is very different now. With Pakistan alienated and driven into the arms of China, the Taliban get material and moral support from across the border. The Russians seem to be aiding the Taliban as well to get their own back on the US for the sanctions imposed on them. There is no way the Taliban can be defeated now. Talking to them is next to useless because they are not known to honour their word. The US has no option but to leave Afghanistan.
@Shekhar Why crush the Taliban? They’re not the enemy of the US, never attacked it nor threaten to do so... there was never a good reason to attack the Taliban in any form after 2001 when Al Qaeda had been defeated.indeed they surrendered to the US in January 2002 but Bush and Rumsfeld - disgracefully - refused to accept the surrender. Since up to 14 million people might support the Taliban, crushing the Taliban would require genocide. And still America would lose...
1
I serve 33 years of service in the US Army Reserve with 5 deployments, one of those in Afghanistan. I discover the following issues:
Contracting Army Officers bring the millionaries contract to Specfic people as Retired Army Officers that use Afghanians to perform the services on the ground while they are on the US, they are just in front of the company, doing nothing. The high level personnel on the Army Contracting Officers don't allow nobody penetrate on that scheme that make millios of dollars while Afghans still on poverty. I recommend a deep investigation on that. Thats why the war have to continue, check my information and the result was shoking the American citizen.
6
It would be funny if it weren't so tragic. I heard one of the former generals interviewed last night on PBS talking about lessons learned or lessons should be learned from this. I wanted to scream because this is just a repeat performance: Vietnam.
3
Meanwhile, we are standing up a new Space Force that will need to feed at the trough.
Meanwhile, executives of Amazon and Microsoft argue that big tech companies need to get involved in defense for the good of the country = more giant corporations driving more defense spending.
Meanwhile, we are told there is no money for healthcare for all, free college, adequate food stamps for hungry people, infrastructure, etc.
What is the point of all this?
13
To this revelation, all I can say is read the late Barbara W. Tuchman's book "The March of Folly: From Troy to Vietnam".
It's essential message is that governing bodies (not just individuals) too often pursue policies contrary to the own interests. They get stuck in an echo chamber of their own creation and even when they have access to good information as to what the reality is they continue to latch onto a false narrative.
In it she looks in detail at four historical incidents:
1. The fall of Troy.
2. The Renaissance popes giving rise to the Protestant Reformation.
3. The British Experience in North America (i.e. the American Revolution from the British perspective).
4. And finally, following the Pentagon Papers, the War in Vietnam.
So here we go again!
George Santayana long ago noted "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
I note all of this sitting in the midst of the dynamic of Hong Kong.
9
@John Babson,
Thanks for the Tuchman recommendation, I’ll put it on my list as I loved her book The Guns of August about the run up to WWI.
It was a page turner, which says everything you need to know about her writing ability, since everyone knows how the story ends.
The reason I mention it is that she meticulously presents a case that at some point, it all became inevitable, even though nobody really wanted it to happen.
That has always haunted me, and we’re living in a similar dynamic now. At some point, it all becomes inevitable.
What’s inevitable?
Well we don’t know that yet, but there’s a sense of foreboding in the air, so whatever it is, it’s right around the corner, and it probably won’t be any more fun than WWI.
Best of luck to you in Hong Kong. I wish you all the best.
We’re all going to need some good luck.
If the fatal consequences and cost of foreign wars have to be borne by the young soldiers used as the fodder of the US war machine or by the public with no choice but to bear the brunt of war what lessons remain to be learned by the civil-military ruling establishment that is sustained by lies, deceit and divesionery missions like the Vietnam,Afghanistan, Iraq, and the similar wars on foreign soil? It was to this stark reality that the former US President Eisenhower had indicated long back by saying that it was the formidable military-industrial complex that really governs the US.
5
Let Afghanistan simply be governed by the Taliban and a new generation of Al Qaeda? Let Pakistan use these folks to attack India, “liberate” Muslims from oppression there? Please don’t confuse this fight with tired old tropes about generals and war profiteers wishing to continue. Our military wants to get out, but only if the enemy is sufficiently crippled.
@Prof. Jai Prakash Sharma,
Yes it is a supreme irony that America is such a powerful nation, but the people are mostly powerless.
But this trajectory that we’re on is unsustainable, so the sequel to this story is sure to be ugly.
3
Allowing Afghanistan to be ruled again by the Taliban, Al Qaeda or now ISIS is also unacceptable. Letting those who terrorize us off the hook, well see what happened the last time we decided to ignore them. It will energize all the jihadists around the world, and once again plunge Afghanistan into worse carnage and chaos. No one who has closely followed this tale of woe should be surprised by these revelations. We and our allies will be in Afghanistan a long time, unless we take the risk of the replay from the 1990s culminating in September 11, 2001. There is progress, change and hope. But it’s going to require adaptive strategy, innovation and most of all ownership by Afghans, committed to not becoming Jihad central again. Killing large numbers of Taliban and associated terrorists will be required, while sparing the innocent, a tall order. Supply chain, of men and material, of Taliban and associates must be broken. Critical mass of Afghans rejecting jihadis and insisting on human rights formed, and yes it might take 100 years. Our simply leaving does not end the war, it does make us more vulnerable. Abandoning our Afghan allies to be slaughtered is not acceptable or in our national interest. Any negotiated settlement must preserve our ability to hold counter parts accountable. That means military force in Afghanistan. Wishing the world was different does not make it so.
1
@Rational Person
'They' would not be 'terrorizing' us if we were not trying to kill them in their own countries.
Keep in mind that the US created alQaeda to fight the Soviets. The Taliban arose to fill the void left after th Soviets left Afghanistan. A minimal amount of aid for rebuilding would have limited their power. And ISIS happened when Iraqi Sunni Army officers got fired and abused by Shiite officials. We were more than happy to use them in our efforts to overthrow the Syrian government.
US interference in the region has had HUGE blowback - making things worse. You should go back to European preWWI efforts to get to the start of things but you can start with the US installing the shah in Iran after overthrowing an elected government. DID you know the US financed Saddam Hussein in Iraq's decade long war with Iran? And THAT led to him invading Kuwait which led to Gulf I and US troops in Saudi Arabia - supposedly enraging binLaden... and on and on and on.......
1
Having lived through the Vietnam War and subsequently reading the Pentagon Papers, all of this sounds much too familiar. I hope this issue is brought up during the next Democratic debate. It will be interesting to hear how the participants handle this and what their proposals are for extricating our country from this mess.
1
Easy as, defense industry is more important than human lives.
3
I’m old enough to remember the Pentagon Papers, and though I didn’t read the entire book, I was able to get a fair understanding of the dynamics, cultural, political and economic, that sustained this decades long tragedy that led to the deaths of over 3 million Vietnamese and 58,000 Americans.
The same self sustaining dynamics applied to Afghanistan in spades. Americans, having the most powerful military in the history of the world, sees its global challenges essentially in military terms. As it is said, when your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.
5
@Jack Shultz
Look up "Project For a New American Century' - the neo-con plan for using US military might to dominate the world in the 21st century and guarantee cheap supplies of raw materials (especially oil). Their plan was titled 'Rebuilding America's Defenses'. Credit Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz and others
A list of recommended 'regime changes' was provided. We've been working our way down the list for two decades - no matter who was in the White House.
Funny how rarely PNAC is mentioned with regards to our current wars when they were described here in detail long before 9/11
I disagree with all the complaints about our mission in Afghanistan. If decent people don't resist evil when it is practical to do so, then evil men take over the planet. Remember the little girl with acid burns on her face, her crime having been attending school? People who do such things should never be allowed to run a country, if we can manage to stop them. Even if it takes 100 years. People whine that the war is over and lost. It hasn't even begun. The war is to prevent certain monsters from taking over, and to prevent all the horror they would bring upon the population. At very little cost we can stay there as long as it takes, and we should.
2
@William Murdick
We will stay there - but not for any humanitarian reasons.
Afghanistan is likely home to rare earth metals, lithium and who knows what when it comes to other mineral wealth.
Never mind its strategic importance between Pakistan and Iran and the former Soviet 'stan' states. We've been trying to get pipelines through Afghanistan and Pakistan to the Gulf as a path out for oil from the old Soviet states for some time.
Nice to know that the 'feel good' propaganda works - as if we really care at all about girls going to school in a brutally patriarchal society. Have you read the stories about the sexual abuse of boys there?
The Times Opinion and several reader comments do an excellent job of criticizing the US failure to learn in Afghanistan. I was strongly opposed to the war in Vietnam and the Iraq war, but thinking that I could see the strength and need of the women and moderates in Afghanistan I mistakenly thought the US military could support a transition to a successful stable culture there. It took me at least a year to recognize my ignorance. Later when I saw the Restrepo documentary I saw the absolute hopelessness of thinking the US military can bridge a cultural divide. God, I hope America can learn.
3
Replace every "Afghanistan" and replace it with Vietnam, and you get a pretty accurate summary of our involvement in Vietnam. After the pentagon papers, and Snowden's revelations, we really should not be surprised that congress is in the dark. Time and time again, members of the military and executive branch have proven that they will lie to congress.
Daniel Ellsburg's (he leaked the pentagon papers) memoir "Secrets" was my favorite book I read this year. It is an amazing look into the inner dynamics of the executive branch, and it shows how well the government can keep secrets from the public, reporters, and even congress.
1
It should have been clear to all that creating a lasting modern national government given the history and status quo is a generational or even multi-generational effort. This does not mean it is impossible or even a bad idea.
Shrugging and ceding society to criminals does not work out well in any country and the result can hurt other countries. Lying about this is less than noble, but counter-insurgencies are often difficult to sustain in a democracy.
2
So, the public was blinded by patriotism, the civilian leadership was blinded by politics and the military was sent in blind. I know hindsight is twenty twenty but it would have helped if someone thought to aim before firing. This could have been handled differently but it's hard to imagine success when the blind are leading the blind.
1
A few years after 9/11, it became clear Americans can be played like a fiddle. The only difference now is that the music has been in the background so long that no one pays attention to it anymore.
7
In 2002, the War against Climate Change was still winnable. And a trillion dollars would likely have won it. So, we didn't just spend a trillion dollars to not win in Afghanistan. We spent a trillion dollars to lose to Climate Change. Which actually does threaten our farms and ranches, our homeland, and our children, unlike the Afghans. We're not just not winning the wrong wars... we're actually losing the right ones.
27
@Phil
To repurpose a line from "Charlie Wilson's War", a great movie about American intervention in the Soviet war in Afghanistan, "One trillion dollars to fight climate change is such a low figure it could be mistaken for a joke."
Once is a mistake, many times is a conspiracy.
Ike had it right...the military-industrial complex is a machine that demands conflict, and billions of dollars. It hires true believers, and in the military, to be a nay sayer is to be subject to real charges and jail time.
Hugh
185
@Hugh Massengill The military brass and the NSC did not argue Afghanistan was "winnable." Gen. Lute obviously knew that wasn't the case, and in 2008 the NSC informed Bush of that uncomfortable fact. In a 2018 NYT op-ed, scholar Steve Cole cited Bush, Obama's and Trump's incoherent Afghanistan policies; that is W.H. incompetence. Add to that AWOL congressional leaders of both parties. Trouble is there's no accountability in our polarized partisan environment. Pointing out that Obama was about as incompetent as Bush, or that Gillibrand and the late John McCain were asleep at the wheel, won't get you invited to parties.
None of these latest "revelations" should come as a shock to readers of the NYT. Back in 2013 a headline read "With Bags of Cash, C.I.A. Seeks Influence in Afghanistan" detailing the Obama Admin's bribery of Hamid Karzai. Even as far back as 2009, the NYT reported on how taxpayer dollars and resources ended up in the hands of al-Qaeda among other malefactors. It was pretty clear to anyone with a sixth grade education that the policy was in complete disarray. The fault ain't in the stars, it lies with American public who preferred not to see it.
BTW: Ike's was referring to the massive domestic opposition he encountered to his arms control efforts. But it was Ike who pioneered the secret war, both in Iran and Honduras, paving the way for imbroglios like Vietnam and Afghanistan.
8
@Hugh Massengill
When was the last time that the American people demanded and expected that their Congress debate, declare and pay for war and peace?
8
@Hugh Massengill
In a draft of that speech Ike had written the "military-industrial-CONGRESS" complex but in his speech he deleted the word Congress concerned he might offend Congress.
Ike's draft was even better than the released speech.
6
Reading Sir Max Hastings masterful "Vietnam" recently, I was struck by how familiar the "winning the hearts and minds" theme sounds in Afghanistan, and how predictable the lies about the failure of American troops in winning over local cultures to a mission which neither the troops nor the locals can understand.
The only conclusion I could draw is that the military needs wars, and wars must profit someone to go on for so long, but clearly Afghanistan does not profit most Americans.
Even the mercenaries we send to fight profit little in the long run.
The military did learn from Vietnam: if you draft the unwilling rather than send soldiers who see war as a career, you have an unsustainable proposition. But if you make war an industry, it can just go on and on.
166
@Claudia -- "but i you make war an industry, it can just go on and on".
You are so right. And on and on it goes.
Meanwhile there is no money left in the kitty to improve our crumbling infrastructure, help struggling citizens, etc. It's all about war.
32
@Claudia
Ours is a country that is on a permanent wartime footing.
War is our main industry.
33
@Claudia You are so right! Max Hastings book "Vietnam" was so insightful and hard to read because of the sad truths it expounded upon (I also recommend the Pulizer Prize winning Vietnam novel "The Sympathizer") -- especially being of Vietnam era draft age and saw what was happening -- unlike Korea where we had the support of the local population to fight communist forces.
"Vietnam" should be required reading of every American and a class devoted to it and the lessons needed to be learned in all our military academies.
5
Essentially what we have done is create more people who hate us. The idea of turning Afghanistan into a. "modern country" is one of the most ludicrous things I've read lately. We could have done a survey asking Afghans if this is what they wanted. They are a distinct people and culture. Why mess with that. Maybe wage a war against Denmark to turn them into a US style shopping mall with no healthcare.
118
@Suzanne Wheat
First - Afghanistan is made of various tribal and ethnic groups - it is NOT a monolithic culture. Conflicts between those groups have gone on for centuries. The term 'Warlord' applies to the heads of many of these groups.
We did use the Aghans as proxies in our cold war with the Soviets. The US was all too willing to provide a variety of arms for fighting but when the war was over we simply left.
The ethical, moral and practical thing to do would have been to extend that arms funding for a year - except spend the funds on hospitals, wells and things the Afghans NEEDED and WANTED. Watch 'Charlie Wilson's War' for a simplified view of things
Schools may sound like a good idea but might not be so good in some places. Trying to change attitudes towards women may be impossible coming from the outside. We didn't care about that when they were fighting the Soviets. Why make it a condition for later aid?
Simply funding basic infrastructure and hospitals would have shown the Afghans that we cared about them - in a manner that might have curbed the rise of the fundamentalist Taliban (which the US was more than willing to tolerate for years)
13
The "lessons" could have been learned from day one by listening to ALL the former Soviet military officers who warned us that we were making a mistake.
Or, by reading a few books on the topic.
But nope. Nearly four thousand dead soldiers and tens of thousands of dead civilians later we still haven't learned anything.
But hey, defense stocks are up big. So at least investors did well. After all, that's the only thing that really counts anyway. Fiduciary responsibility and all that...
230
@Raven
The alternative seemed to be to allow terrorist groups to indefinitely operate both freely and openly. Sustaining the deployment seems awful but we keep doing it. This means we are either fools or the alternative is worse...
@Raven
Since 9/11/01 a mere 0.75% of Americans have volunteered to wear the uniform of any American armed force.
While the rest of us pretend to be brave honorable patriots by rising to sing the national anthem and saluting the flag at sporting events like Trump and sons and daughters.
5
@Raven
"The "lessons" could have been learned from day one by listening to ALL the former Soviet military officers who warned us that we were making a mistake."
Reading the WAPO series, those are the lessons that we *thought* that we had learned in Vietnam 50 years ago.
5
An abject lesson in why our Constitution granted to Congress ONLY the power to declare, and thus wage, war. (Art. I Sec. 8). No president has this power; nor should he (and one hopes someday she). A wise protection that has been kicked to the curb with such utter disdain and cowardly sycophancy that few persons even know that it exists.
2
@Concerned - Not Truly
Congress last declared war in 1942 when it added Hungary, Romania and Bulgaria to the Axis.
Congress has pretty much gone along with whatever our Imperial Presidency wants since then.
1
Annie Gramson Hill just made some interesting points. The way to stop this military nonsense is to resume the draft. When you have people in the military who don't want to make it a career, you have people who are not afraid to speak up and will tell the truth. The answer is simple.
6
@witschi When you have the sons and daughters of the President, Vice President, Cabinet Members, Congressmen and Women,the sons and daughters of the executives of all defense companies the sons and daughters of the wealthy, the sons and daughters of the influencers the sons and daughters of every American placed in harm's maybe this would put an end to this madness.
1
So many comment from armchair experts. Government ignored the known threats that manifest themselves in remote places. Sudan, Somalia, Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya, North Korea. Ignore what exists at our own uncertain risk.
When peace is threatened summon the military. Then criticize the military and the industry that provides our armed forces with the best materiel from your place of comfort.
Be very thankful if you’ve never known fear. It is a luxury.
2
@Col Flagg, oh and you're going to lecture us about "threats" in the world? I noticed you didn't list the Saudis. Who perpetrated 9/11? Whose form of Islam has been the gold standard for anti-western activities in the world?
I'm thankful that you're not in charge.
2
NYT, please don’t let this story go. I am very concerned this highly important, tragic report is being drowned out by 24/7 impeachment analysis and repetition. No mention of these findings on NBC Nightly News or Rachel Maddow the last two nights, for example.
We cannot ignore this economic, diplomatic and moral disaster.
4
In today's Wall Street Journal, Walter Russell Mead writes, "Much of the American foreign-policy establishment ... believe that America's chief task is to build a world order on liberal principles." Really?
Go to any political rally today and ask those who believe that statement to raise their hands.
Then mention the Bay of Pigs, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Yemen and Ukraine and ask if anybody present believes that our foreign policy elite know what they are doing. The response might just blow the lid off the building.
@Doolin66
The scarier thing is that we keep using the same ignorant and arrogant people as 'experts' in Washington - administration after administration despite their track record of failures.
But we've institutionalized failure. Our Intelligence Agencies have spent unaccounted for fortunes yet failed abysmally at their defined task
What ever happened to JFK's plans and then Carter's plans to break up the CIA? A continual record of failure - from failing to see China going Communist, North Korea invading the South, the whole Vietnam situation, the revolts in Eastern Europe that we encouraged but then left hanging...
The vastly overestimated the Soviet Union's power and economy, missed Castro in Cuba and then made things even worse...... we won't even mention their involvement in drug running - Vietnam, Iran-Contra and ........
English majors’ revenge. “Privy to classified assessments”? Anyone who’d read Flashman knew the foolishness of our Afghanistan ambitions.
1
Afghanistan is certainly a place where Steve Bannon could do some useful disestablishment. A few thousand good young people killed and tens of thousands more consigned to a life limited and pain filled just to make billions of dollars for defense contractors and the millions of people employed in the defense industry, this includes the lackey politicians who cater to their every whim and the. Nothing is ever learned by the useful idiots who run the government.
1
Didn’t we see this movie before?
1
A question stubbornly remains: has the NYT (i.e. one of the main cheerleader for that useless Nas costly war) learned its lesson? Obviously not ...
Nyt has the cheek! They were the ones beating the drums of the twin wars, Iraq and Afghanistan. Now they dare to speak up! It’s only because Washington post uncovered the documents. Too late NYT you changed the world forever when you got behind the Iraq Afghanistan war wagons!
18
Republicans are shamelessly corrupt and Democrats, when they get power, are too cowardly to use it.
The only lesson is give DC a dollar, and they'll burn $1.50
1
Vietnam.
All over again.
5
Lessons from Vietnam war has been lost by the political/military leadership
You do not fight a guerrilla war by conducting bombing campaign and causing collateral damage to civilians and antagonizing them
You do not prop up a regime which is totally corrupt
You do not prop up warlords by hiring who can change sides
You do not fight a war with unrealistic goals.
You do not confine your strength to fortress when your opponent fights in periphery and disappears into general population
You do not rely on overwhelming armed strength to fight a guerrilla war
you do not try to impose your culture and way of thinking on the local population
you do not misunderstand the longstanding local culture and history
You do not try to win the war by pouring in money
112
@Azad
Lots of "do not's" but no suggestions as to "do."
Finding fault is a child's game. Finding workable solutions is for adults.
3
@Azad
And you don't fight a war for no good reason.
1
@M Clement Hall
There is no winning strategy at this point. The only answer is to leave. It's possible that the war in Afghanistan could have been successful if we had applied Marshall Plan-level resources to rebuilding the country and did not get distracted by Iraq, but it's way too late for that.
1
Vietnam without the Jungle. How to stop this Insanity, in any locale ? Restart the Draft. Once ALL able-bodied 18 year olds, Male and Female, can be forced to serve, THIS will stop. NO student deferments, NO bogus “Bone Spurs “, NO excuses.
Seriously.
98
@Phyliss Dalmatian As a draftee who went to Viet Nam, I agree wholeheartedly. It evens the playing field, allows for some growing up and once you have "skin in the game" you become more reluctant to send our youth into harm's way.
10
@Phyliss Dalmatian As a former draftee during Vietnam, I agree wholeheartedly but with one caveat. No exemptions except for children and grandchildren of veterans who served in the Vietnam era and, oh yes politicians kids first.
2
@Phyliss Dalmatian Totally love this idea. One more thing: every single politician's child must fight. When a Senator sends his beautiful 18 year old daughter to the front lines to die, it had better be a cause worth dying for.
7
During the financial crisis back in probably ‘09, I read an interview with a financial expert who was asked, “how does something like this happen?”
He answered: “It happens very slowly, and then it happens all at once.”
That has always haunted me (wish I could remember the person.)
America is a failing state, and it seems to be happening very slowly. Will we eventually reach a tipping point where it will all suddenly crater?
Are we Yugoslavia with millions of guns and nukes?
America had the potential to transform the world for good after the fall of the Soviet Union. We could have helped create a livable planet for billions of people.
Instead we unleashed our greed, arrogance, hubris and violence to terrorize vast numbers of people as if our objective was to turn the planet into a living hell.
The Ancient Greeks had a saying that there was one sin the Gods always punished: hubris. There’s no happy ending here.
145
@Annie Gramson Hill The original quote is from Hemingway:
“How did you go bankrupt?"
Two ways. Gradually, then suddenly.”
― Ernest Hemingway, The Sun Also Rises
7
This comment below is telling:
"As a Vietnamese General asked Robert McNamara many years after the war "Don't you people read books.""
Anyone who ever read Rudyard Kipling's "KIM" about the adventures of the English and Russians in Afghanistan in the 1800s knew immediately that our more recent adventures would fail. Out military apparently doesn't take into account the NATURE of the people they choose to go to war with. Because "the enemy" don't have the "modern" up to date society we equate with civlilization, we think of them as "backward" and thus "lesser".
What the Vietnamese had and what the Afghanis have is resolve. They insist on being masters of their own destinies. That is a core value of who they are. And something they are willing to fight for to the death. No mercenaries have that. And if it takes them hundreds of years, they will keep on fighting.
Yes, we need better educated leaders, politicians and generals.
9
This war, and other "police actions," around the world will come to a screeching halt if a brave President with support from Congress called for a civilian draft with no "bone spur" exemptions or student deferments. The outcry from those disconnected Americans, those who thought these were wars fought by a "volunteer" military but they have to give up their own sons and daughters will be fierce. The politicians have no escape from this reckoning.
The Taliban should surely know by now if they play footsie with the big dog they are going to get crushed. We should remind them of that before we leave. While we are at it, we should tell their patrons, our fair weather "friends," the Pakistanis the same thing. Why are we coddling a corrupt military regime?
3
When our current president sets the tone with alternative facts and the last one bought into the need to keep the myth alive and the one before him started the whole thing based on lies and fabrications we have had 18 years of a bleeding treasury and shattered lives, both Afgan an American, and a ruined reputation around the world. It’s time to end the nightmare, bring our troops home and try to figure out how we heal ourselves.
1
As Socrates taught us: we can only – by dialog or experience - learn what we already know. “The West” know only that gunning down the bad guys is the way to freedom – for others – to do what we want them to do. Iran next.
2
Relevant questions to ask are what would have happened if we never engaged and what will happen when we leave? Maybe like Europe, Japan and South Korea sometimes our long term presence and influence is what is required for our long term safety and to maintain peace. Sometimes foreign diplomacy and commitments reflect dark choices and require selecting the lesser of two evils.
2
Just as John Kennedy's car took an incredible turn when it went onto ELM STREET... 300 feet later... our form of Government, our way of life, our way of respecting our government, our way of being respected by our government... took that same kind of bizarre wide turn. And we haven't gotten back on the straight and narrow yet. The Kennedy assassination was the end of faith in Government...and things won't get better until that is addressed. Someone has to keep fighting the odds and even though you know that you're never going to get a resolution to what you're fighting for, you have to fight for it anyway - just for the principle of justice. Just for the principle of American Democracy.
1
We could have learned from the Russians when they threw in the towel in Afghanistan, and withdrew. But we thought we knew better. Two decades have since passed. How many billion/trillion of Dollars wasted?
6
In 1812 the Brits sailed across the pond & burned Washington to the ground. I submit that we declare war on them, again, and hope for the best!
1
Our politicians and our military leaders have forgotten that human beings fight wars and follow orders.
They forget that they are HUMAN also.
This After Action Report is painfully familiar, repeating what we say we learned in Vietnam. So when I suggested the only difference between our war in Southwest Asia and Southeast Asia was the desert and the jungle I was told we weren't allowed to make that observation. This conversation took place in the Pentagon in 2004 or 2005. Sadly the warning "beware the military industrial complex from retired General and President of the United States Dwight D, Eisenhower was on time and on target. Here is a lesson to take to the bank. Not until very fundamental changes are made in the way our military is used will we break the cycle of increasing military spending on wars and conflicts for which there is no victory. No one likes to tell the Emperor he has no clothes!
4
Same song, 22nd verse. This is the direct result of two things:
—First, the bloated DOD budget that’s equal to the next NINE countries in the world combined. This becomes a circular argument: Gotta keep all those people employed, whether it’s building weapons of war or fighting in the hills of Khandahar;
—Second, the incredibly arrogant attitude of those in power who blithely believe that the US is somehow so much better than anybody else on the planet to clean up a mess like that in Afghanistan. Seriously? Hubris doesn’t even begin to explain this disaster. Comparisons to Vietnam are apt, but perhaps only in the sense that the same attitude of “I’m smarter than all those other guys/cultures/nations” still applies. Still. When will it end?
30
There is one lesson that Americans need to learn: the symbiosis relationship between the generals and the all-volunteer forces.
There are decent individuals working in government, but every institution we have is corrupt and works to perpetuate itself and make small numbers of private contractors wealthy.
Once an individual rises through the bureaucratic ranks, he can retire with a pension and then sell his access to the private sector.
This is the real quid pro quo that is destroying our nation. What bureaucrat is going to question what the contractors are doing if it means he will lose his own eventual place at the trough?
I’m surprised they were able to keep it quiet as long as they did, although the journalists I read over the years basically painted a picture of kleptocracy in a medieval setting.
Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, et al, should all be in The Hague awaiting trial, but that will never happen.
Unfortunately Obama didn’t do our country any favors in Afghanistan either, but at least he inherited the mess.
The bottom line is that our country has been overrun by a grifter class comprised of government contractors, their armies of lobbyists, PR specialists, think tanks, bureaucrats, politicians and their staffers.
They have plundered our country and we will continue to decay with our 3rd world infrastructure, violent police state, inadequate education system, and the criminal enterprise that is our health care system.
We are a kakistocracy and someday all those karmic chickens will come home to roost.
Let’s hope we can be like Czechoslovakia instead of Yugoslavia.
18
This shows where four decades of all-volunteer forces can lead.
As our elected leaders have less and less first-hand military experience, they have ceded expertise to military professionals, and with it less civilian control--at least tacitly.
Instead of conscription to spread the military burden around, we've supplemented the full time professional forces with severely overtasked national guard and militia troops.
12
@grennan The exact same thing happened in Vietnam, and was revealed by the Pentagon Papers, during a time when there was a draft. I absolutely agree with you, we should have some sort of public service, including military service, as part of every citizens' responsibilities, but even mandatory military service will not change the profit motive of the "military-industrial complex." A corporation large enough to have manufacturing facilities in every state of the union is able to whisper in the ear of every senator, and acquire contracts for weapons our military does not want. Once we have them, eventually we will find a use for them. Only later will we read it was a lost cause.
2
@John Taylor
For at least 15 ysars it's seemed like nobody in Washington had read anything serious about Vietnam. But it's also possible the wrong people learned the wrong things.
Our involvement in Viet Name ended because a very wide cross section of the population had a personal stake. Some of the military/arms class learned that if people's kids weren't being yanked somewhere involuntarily, they could operate a lot more freely because many fewer Americans were paying much attention.
Even worse than arms manufacturing and selling was the dreadful innovation of hiring private contractor forces. The arms makers at least created jobs here and are theoretically subject to US laws. Their factories can be converted to other things (my household has chainsaws, other lawn tools, and sewing machines made by Husvarna, founded in the 17th century strictly to make weapons).
2
It is ironic, or maybe just sad, that we (mainly Republicans) believe the government manages the military well (when it obviously doesn’t), and demonizes the government for things it does do well (such as health care).
The next time a president wants to use the military to invade another country, Congress must say No.
7
Can anyone explain why the heck we have ever had troops in Afghanistan?
What have we been trying to accomplish over these endless years of military adventure?
We all know that whenever we leave that benighted country almost immediately the Taliban will once again take control. We have not, nor will we ever defeat, or even subdue, this indigenous force. Whether we like them or not; whether we despise their philosophies and beliefs or not -- they will ultimately prevail in controlling that country.
Meanwhile we have needlessly expended thousands of American and Afghani lives in a mindless conflict that more than ever seems driven by pride rather than policy.
It took us a decade and a half to realize the fruitlessness of our once misguided policy in Vietnam. Now we are well beyond that time frame stuck in Afghanistan in a similar no-win situation.
So will someone please tell me what it is we are trying to accomplish in Afghanistan other than needlessly bleed both ourselves and the Afghani people?
4
@George I've heard it said that if the United States stopped fighting all our wars tomorrow, the country would be bankrupt within a few weeks.
When you build the world's most powerful military, you have to keep it on a growth trajectory; the only metric that Wall Street recognizes is growth.
Of course, all those young men and women could have become teachers or doctors or musicians, but our education system is so shot, and the propaganda machine so tightly-wound, that they were never going to do that.
7
Not really. The main reason people join the military is they aren't smart and otherwise would be flipping burgers.
How can this be truly shocking? At what point should we blame those who accept the lies and misdirection from our military and intelligence officials that should OBVIOUSLY not be believed, prima facie - after Viet Nam, after WMDs, after all our covert operations for regime change that have come to light. Those who peddle these lies, including many at this paper, are either knowingly complicit or astoundingly ignorant about misinformation concerning our military interventions here and elsewhere that is fed to us. For example, why haven't we seen a Times or Post investigation or our complete Cyberwarfare budget and typical activities of our US Cyber Command in other countries, many of which are democracies or even allies.
The presidential candidate who is pushing us to end these regime change wars more than any other is Tulsi Gabbard. Yet her campaign has been either avoided or ridiculed by NYT and the mainstream press since it began. Even writers for this paper suggested (along with Hillary) that she is a Russian asset (along with Jill Stein) basing it mainly on her serious nature about these serious issues. Only in America can an adult act like an adult and get accused of being a Russian operative because of it! (Those cartoons with Boris and Natasha really did a number on us.) Just watch Joe Rogan's podcast interview with her to see a real person with real courage trying to end the killing - and then go back and see how she has been portrayed by the media. It's shameless.
8
@carl bumba,
It’s Orwellian and terrifying, and thank you for making the point.
This should have been a critic’s pick, but of course you knew it wouldn’t be.
2
@carl bumba : You are exactly right. Tulsi had the guts to calmly call for an end to these wars. But does the establishment and military industrial complex like this ? No !! You are also right that NYT coverage of her has been regrettably biased - an article of her had pics all of which were shot in poor light - normally NYT pic standards would never have allowed those photos !
2
Hasn't Afghanistan been called the graveyard of empires? Must be some reason for that appellation.
19
I'm not against Congress doing its job, but the military could sure clean up its act, too. It doesn't help the war effort that US generals live like kings--private chefs, enlisted men mowing their lawns and pressing their uniforms, military bands playing at their parties, and so on. Some of them know more about fundraising in the Hamptons than they do about the battlefield. That's not a recipe for success.
13
Words matter!
The invasion of Afghanistan was a remarkable military success. The country was overrun and its government dismantled in about nine days.
What followed was the installation of a garrison to impose a government of our choosing.
This has also been a success. We have installed and maintained a puppet government for 13 years. It will fall when and if we decide to leave.
The garrison business has always been messy, expensive and emotionally unrewarding. Such is life!
To characterize our occupation of Afghanistan as a failure is to unjustly stigmatize the men and women who have maintained it.
The real failure here lies with politicians who conceived the invasion as an emotional response to 9/11without thinking through the occupation and a press corps that was content to idly mischaracterize this venture.
The editorial board owes our troops an apology.
Oh please. Nobody is suggesting the troops are to blame. This was a colossal error of strategy, to fight an entirely unnecessary war in “the graveyard of empires” with no discernible yardstick for what would constitute a win.
3
During the 2016 campaign, Donald Trump, of all people, said he was going to take the US out of the business of nation building and end our unending military interventions.
During the 2019 Impeachment Inquiry, many of the impressive State Department Officers. Ambassadors, Under Secretaries etc. mentioned with pride and approval the consistent 70 year foundation of American foreign policy that includes strong support for NATO and sustaining our economic, political and military alliances with our traditional allies. What was alluded to but not mentioned directly is that since the end of WWII the US began to see its national interests as global, putting it into potential conflict with virtually every nation on the globe. Add to this the military promotions that generally come as a result of combat and the military contracts to those companies whose bottom line soars during military conflict and one can see the causes of the militarization of our Foreign policies.
The dozens of military interventions since WWII have been tragic failures, squandering the lives of our young men, women as well as our treasure and the lives of millions of innocent non combatants of the countries unlucky enough to receive our help.
Gen. Lute's assessment of our 18 year war in Afghanistan that "We didn't know what we were doing." can be said to be true for almost all of our undeclared wars. As a Vietnamese General asked Robert McNamara many years after the war "Don't you people read books."
9
It's the money, stupid. Too much profit in war. And when all you've got is a hammer (or bomb) everything looks like a nail (or target).
9
One lesson I learned:
Never get in where someone else got out when it comes to imperialistic wars. We did not learn from Indochina and the French and we definitely were beautifully sucked in Afghanistan thanks to the Russians. Freedom fighters cum Taliban included.
3
Ultimate strategic objective of Americans was to establish democratic government which controls and contains religious extremism which is not exported . Americans have failed even before it started involvement .How do you establish viable democracy in a country which is illiterate , relies on opium trade as main economic source and lays emphasis on extremist interpretation of religion? This is compounded by active sabotage by active provision of sanctuaries by Neighboring failing insecure state.
All the lessons from Vietnam war are there.You cannot make a country in your image by overwhelming force alone.
Only beneficiaries of this war are the Afghan ruling elite who have stashed their share of one trillion dollars in Dubai banks and offshore tax havens
The only way to deal with the situation is total pullout ,isolate the incoming Taliban regime and use punitive sustained bombing campaigns in case of taliban transgressions like in Serbia
Let Pakistan pay a cost of having hostile Taliban regime next door . Taliban has never recognized its border Durand Line with Pakistan Do not be surprised if Talban once in power turns its back on its benefactors in Pakistan
Let the other neighbors Russia ,Muslim Central Asian Republics ,China ,India and Iran who have much to lose from TalibAn ideological extremist regime deal with the situation. Right now they are sitting on sidelines while the burden is borne by Americans
1
The US military industrial,now joined by the surveillance industrial complex has been telling us for...well forever, that we can get in and get out swiftly and cheaply with little loss to life and treasure. And they have been wrong every damn time. There is always another hill, another village, city or mission to get us to the promised land. Always more diplomatic work to be done, but first we fall back on military efforts...just to get us to that perfect place for diplomacy to do its job. But we never reach that place.For a multitude of reasons, most of which involve our belligerent ignorance. Not only about the locals we're screwing with, but more so our own lack of self awareness. We are so not self aware to our imperfections it's scary.
anyone who didn't think we'd end exactly in this place is not only delusional, but just plain stupid. Once we entered Afghanistan, then for not good reasons Iraq, I was yelling, "Okay, everyone sit tight and watch us never leave. not without some sort of reports that we wasted billions and billions for no measurable gains what so ever." Vindication sucks
1
No surprise here. Afghanistan is where empires go to die. The only western leader to get out of there with his military reputation intact was Alexander the Great who after getting bogged down married a local chieftains daughter, declared victory and got out.
Bush should have done the same—without the marrying the chieftain’s daughter part of course. That of did not happen. Obama also carried on the same misguided policy as has Trump.
I feel for the people of Afghanistan especially for the women but it seems to me that we are not making anything better. Maybe it’s time to leave.
We
I am not sure anybody believed that things were/are going well for the US military. The tricky point is exactly what will happen if the US military left tomorrow. Likely Taliban will rule all of Afghanistan within a few months? Or whatever it is, let us spell it out. And then have a conversation if we are ok with that and move forward. My point is, instead of worrying whether we are winning or losing, let us admit that we are fine with losing.
42
Taliban is a USA creation. Same as ISIS. We “used” the first against the Russians (they were called Freedom Fighters) and the second allies when they were Saddam’s guys fighting Iran.
Let me not teach you about us and Iran. Stephen Kinzer who used to work for the NYT then, wrote the brilliant “All the Shah’s Men”, read that.
13
@Blunt , I suppose you are suggesting the Taliban is an offshoot of the mujahadeen we supported to fight the Soviets in the 80's. That wuld only be partially true as the mujahadeen spun off in to various groups, many of which later fought against each other. We hardly created them. Nor did we create ISIS. We did, by getting rid of Saddam and turning that territory in to unstable territory provide Al Qaeda in Iraq which formed in 2003 to get a foothold and then they became ISIS.
1
Funny, but I, who certainly have no insider information, but have for decades read various news sources, am not the least surprised by these reports. We did not learn from the lessons the Soviets learned in the 1980s; we did not look at this country - a backwater even by 20th century standards. While lovely in places, it has few natural resources, a mostly rural and poorly educated population, and a decentralized tribal system with many leaders, and diverse and shifting loyalties. It is also a place where it is infinitely difficult for Westerners to tell the "good guys" from the "bad guys."
What exactly the plan was was never clear. To take out the remnants of Al Qaeda? Sure, if we know who that is. To prevent the area from being used to "train terrorists"? Sure, but it is a very big area with many remote valleys, mountains, and caves - and, again, hard to tell who is a terrorist. To bring stability? That, in itself, is a bit humorous considering the pre-war nature of the society... As I said, no real surprise in these revelations.
121
@Anne-Marie Hislop
See wikipedia: Afghanistan has abundant non-fuel mineral resources, including both known and potential deposits of a wide variety of minerals ranging from copper, iron, and sulfur to bauxite, lithium, and rare-earth elements.
2
@ST
Rare earth elements are critical for high performance electronics. They are used in the production of LCD and plasma screens, fiber optics, lasers, as well as in medical imaging.
3
@Anne-Marie Hislop
Wasn't the goal simply to avenge 9/11 by shooting at somebody - anybody?
7
We always blame everyone in the government. We never seem to blame our own ignorance due to our own disregard for research, for learning, for critical thinking.
A war without a clearly described end goal; no exit strategy. That in itself should be of concern. Everyone who has lived through the Vietnam War should be asking about this.
A war that for all practical purposes now matches the length of the Vietnam War. Everyone who has lived through the Vietnam War should be asking about this.
It is only now that someone bothers to blame the government? If we relinquish our responsibility to question and seek accountability, then we enable others' propensity for obfuscation, for manipulation and for simply hood-wink us.
Are we reading to wake up yet? Do we still remember this is a government of the people? by the people? for the people?
Time to do what our parents did once, bring our troops home. This Afghanistan mission is done.
138
I think that there has been plenty of criticism of this war by the public, made by Democrats, Republicans and independents. The last president and the current one both ran on a platform of pulling the US out of endless wars, which is strong evidence as to where the public sentiment is. What’s been missing is a political and media establishment willing to fight for any significant policy change. Yes there have been journalists and politicians willing to criticize US military engagements, but simply not enough to turn the tide of mainstream groupthink.
12
@LazyPoster agree and woe to the politician who engineers a withdrawal 'cause he or she will be an immediate target of their political opposition and every other armchair patriot who bothers to vote
10
@LazyPoster
Yes, but..., and I speak as a father of an Infantryman who did a tour in Afghanistan: the butchery that will ensue in that country, particularly to women, if we withdraw, is likely to be unspeakable, and then the
Medieval Taliban will resume as usual. We started
this mess there, like it or not. We now owe some people there. Cut and run doesn't cut it, sorry. How long have we been in South Korea? How long have
we been in Europe? Our waste and mistakes in Afghanistan have been clear, but some moral and practical resolution must be worked out, even if it means flying out every single Afghan-- man, woman and child-- who wants to leave that benighted country, and settling them here as Americans.
8
Perhaps this our Pentagon Papers moment, when we learn our leaders have known along that we don't know what we are doing, but do know that we can't win. Yet, they keep spending our tax money and our soldiers continue to suffer casualties. For what? So the military-industrial complex can keep making money? It seems that we are still in Afghanistan simply because we can't figure out how to leave. At least in a way that doesn't make it obvious that much of our time and effort there has been unnecessary and futile, and at great cost in men, women, materiel, and treasure.
My question is could a more limited mission with additional resources have succeeded?
If we’d simply said we’re here to get the guys who attacked us -something the Afghans might understand- and will leave as soon as we have and applied some of the resources we wasted on Iraq would that have worked? I don’t know the answer but I can’t help wondering
2
Actually, there is one lesson that seems to have been learned, or at least reinforced again and again. Dishonesty, obfuscation, and sometimes outright lying works. Trillions of dollars changed hands, political fallout was avoided, and the military industrial machine hummed along for 17 years in Afghanistan fueled by money, fear, and the blood of Americans and Afghans alike. There is a valuable lesson here to consider, regardless of what the current administration would like you to believe. There is only one way that the government can be held to task, and that is under the watchful eye of a free press. I offer my sincerest thanks to the Washington Post and the NYT for uncovering the truth, since in fact, it really does matter.
48
And yet as soon as President Trump or his predecessors made any move to finally withdraw our toops or massive financial commitments to this part of the world we hear knee jerk opposition by a combination of anti-Trump liberals or hawkish Republicans join forces to prevent this from happening. Here is the simple truth: There are NO good guys in the Middle East. There will ALWAYS be oppression of some group or the other for the foreseeable future. It is NOT our job to intervene unless our safety or security are directly threatened.
16
What a disgrace is waging a war with no end in sight and no long-term plans for Afghanistan's self government. Did we ever ask Afghan what they want, and need, as opposed to the following of the dictates of a foreign 'command' (which we are)? Can't we see that our presence there will never be viewed as an integral part of their nation, but that of invasors instead? That the Taliban has all the prerrogatives that 'natives' have, however misaligned with our democratic values? We ought not continue to force ourselves on them, it just won't work. Vietnam's war showed what reality was to teach us, the need to get out of there, let them lead their lives, however different they may be from ours. And ours are not a panacea either, right?
5
well, can the editorial board tell me why that war was started?
And..what's about Iraq and its 500,000 civilian casualties? No accountability, I guess not, since Bush is still free and so all the others that started these horrors.
PS: one dishonorable mention to the guy that knowingly went with a little vial containing baby power making himself a full in front of the entire world.
How many American boys were killed so Nixon could claim to have negotiated a deal with Ho Chin Minh and save America the embarrassment of withdrawal without honor. What did that "honor" buy us.
For almost a decade our military leaders knew that war was unwinnable but kept the fact from the American people while drafted and volunteer kids still years away from even achieving functional frontal lobes were sacrificed.
We learned nothing from that, why would we learn anything from Afghanistan or Iraq?
How much blood and treasure can an empire squander before it sinks into history? At what point does it deserve it?
43
A reminder that the title of a book published in 2015 by an editorial team from National Defense University — and which included input from General Martin Dempsey, 18th Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff (2011-2015) and dozens of top Senior Leaders from across the Services — was “Lessons Encountered: Learning from the Long War.”
The title was knowingly juxtaposed with the military concept/activity of using “lessons learned” to enable better decision making, and to highlight the USG’s seeming inability to learn from and correct its mistakes in Afghanistan. The best it could do was “encounter” them; nothing learned at all.
If ever there were a moment for bipartisan action this is it.
But it appears both sides are too busy hating each other to stop and focus.
7
This is or ought to be a very disturbing report. I greatly appreciate Washington Post for breaking it. We citizens entrust power to others on the faith that morality will prevail in their decisions on our behalf, and that we will not be betrayed in this regard. Never! But with our endless Afghanistan involvement, we have been betrayed ... for God only knows why. But w3 have been betrayed! And far beyond that, the so many killed and so many injured/ maimed for life, not to mention others related to these ... parents, husbands and wives, children, relatives and friends ... who suffer broken often forever. We all of us should honor our military; but we ought to be suspect of any politician who uses these as front to go unaccounted and rally a lie.
9
I lived through the Viet Nam era. And anyone who did so should have understood that there was to be no "victory" in Afghanistan or Iraq.
The fact is, Dubya got us into both wars because he, and a large portion of our citizenry, were angry after 9/11, and wanted to strike back against any brown-skinned people in the Middle East or Central Asia.
Never mind that these disastrous actions had nothing to do with the 9/11 hijackers, most of whom were Saudi nationals. This didn't matter to Trump and his supporters. They just were glad to see his military kill large numbers of brown skinned people. They thought they were "striking back", but had no idea exactly what - or who - they were striking. And they didn't care.
Fast forward to today. We've lost thousands of U.S. service men and women. Tens of thousands of Afghani and Iraqi citizens are dead. We've spent into the billions of dollars there, these past two decades. Neither government in those countries is remotely functional now.
The fact is, Americans need to grow up. They need to understand that there is rarely any kind of "success" for large scale U.S. military operations in parts of the world we, as a nation, are wholly ignorant of. This sadly includes Dubya, his administration, the military under his command, and his voters.
But maybe that's all Dubya's supporters ever wanted. To kill brown skinned people - no matter the cost to any of us - or them. Because this is the only "win" they got.
25
Just another example of why Americans have lost faith in their leaders and are willing to “blow the whole thing up” by voting for someone like Trump.
21
@Roberta Shaw Amen to that! And unfortunately this sorry excuse of a human being that occupies the White House has not the will or intelligence to try and navigate a solution. Hopefully the next occupant will.
“The time frame for creating a strong central government is 100 years, which we didn’t have,” an unidentified former State Department official told investigators in 2015. But to admit that the goal is unattainable is to admit failure.
In 2008 Mr. Obama campaigned on ramping up the war in Afghanistan
"And that’s why, as President, I will make the fight against al Qaeda and the Taliban the top priority that it should be. This is a war that we have to win."
https://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/15/us/politics/15text-obama.html
It 2015 it could not be said because it would have stained the Obama foreign policy
So why aren’t we leaving tomorrow?
24
Imagine if that 2 trillion was used for infrastructure over the last 18 years. 2 trillion dollar that is $60,000 per Afghani.
Meanwhile American student wallow in debt. Healthcare debt is a problem in the US. Our Grandchildren will condemn our stupidity.
70
@GUANNA
Not to mention our decaying infrastructure.
@GUANNA oh, how i hope the grandchildren do! we have it coming.
@GUANNA They already do
Here's a lesson: more blood never washes out the stains of bloodshed.
11
Lots of Lessons from Vietnam; None Learned
58
The Editors assume a "success.' That apparently means some kind of "win." A win means we killed more of their guys than they killed of ours: That the evening news could show pictures of territory captured, borders re-defined, countries surrendering, US GI's coming home to cheering fans and adoring wives. But that isn't what Afghanistan was about, or for. Afghanistan was about opium: who controls the trade, who gets the money ($200bn per year in cash, funneled through London and New York banks), and of course, what military assets can be established to finish surrounding Iran, the actual objective. Afghanistan has been a complete success in these regards. Mission accomplished.
4
the key sentence in all of this is that these documents were available to congress all the time -- they have access to classified documents, after all.
But they did not access them. One wonders if they ever access anything regarding the operation of the government they supposedly run. Given that congresspeople now spend very literally all their time running for reelection, I highly doubt it.
94
@Charles Trentelman
In a radio interview yesterday on WGBH with Representative Lynch of Massachusetts, he stated he was consistently lied to on Congressional investigation trips to Afghanistan. He noted the complexity of the information (or perhaps disinformation) as provided was such that it took him three years to determine the inherent lies. His trips had to do with U.S. funds going into Afghanistan if I understood him. So truths hidden by intent.
So let's not discount the impact of Trump's and the GOP's lies. Lies matter. A lot.
2
In the early 80s I made dozens of trips to Pakistan and one memorable three day trip to Afghanistan. I returned from my short stay in Kabul, and started telling my colleagues that Afghanistan would certainly be the Soviet Union’s Vietnam.
Two decades later, I had a sinking feeling that Afghanistan would become Americas second Vietnam.. I wish it hadn’t been so, but it seemed obvious to me that the potential for failure was exceedingly high.
When will we ever learn?
34
It is pitiful that the leaders that we depend on to make sure things are right are claiming innocents. One of the comments in the Washington Post Article covering these releases quoted a contractor who questioned a congressperson about why we were spending $3 million a day on a mud hut village and seemed to indicate it was by congressional mandate.
What is going on in this alternate universe????
9
Immediately reminded me of Viet Nam. Maybe the last thing you want to do is send in the military. Didn't Eisenhower warn about this kind of thing, the motivations of the military-industrial ediface? Don't they help elect politicians too? A big corporation has the same right to donate to politics as do individuals?
7
One of many truisms: As long as officer promotions and budgets are tied to "successes", the situation will not change. Nobody who is an officer wants failures documented on their records, or their career becomes dead-ended, especially combat-related failures. Bad news goes nowhere.
10
Robert MacNamara and Clark Clifford will live forever. I think those of us who survived Vietnam knew this all along. Politicians always lie to us and the Generals wont disagree.
18
@Rich Murphy The Generals will always lie to us and the Politicians won't disagree.