I am a psychiatrist and have observed that men who are obsessed with their daughter's, or sister's, virginity, or sex lives in general, are often manifesting repressed sexual attraction to these young women. Thus, doctors who fail to recognize this are, at the very least, giving tacit approval to poor familial sexual boundaries with incestuous overtones. Strong sexual boundaries in families protect children from trauma.
55
What kind of doctor would agree to do this????
32
Dad sounds completely out to lunch but what’s wrong with an 18-year-old, college coed who participates in such idiocy? That he thought “Not being in the room” was worth mentioning was truly head-spinning...Really? You weren’t looking over the doctor’s shoulder? Well that must make it perfectly fine then. This is way too weird.
31
Any young woman who can "pass" this test is missing out on something. Horse back riding is great and bicycles are more convenient than walking, as long as one wears a helmet.
17
State lawmakers should also take a long hard look at horseback riding.
14
Re: "...The legislation would prohibit medical practitioners from performing virginity examinations, and would subject them to penalties for professional misconduct if they breach the ban. Virginity tests performed outside of a medical setting would be considered sexual assault under the proposal..."
Sounds good, like demand eliminating the equally, unscientific efforts committed under the evangelical 'sexual orientation-change-/-fantasy' known, as 'praying the gay, away'!
Other than the person who's virginity is under, discussion... who would care, about this non-issue? And why would such intimate details be getting this '3rd party' public-discussion, anyway?
4
What kind of physician would perform this test?? If the patient themself asked for the test ( but why ever would they?) then sure. But if anyone other than the patient requested it be done on the patient, then no way...
17
What happened to privacy between doctor and patient from intrusion against the state?
5
It’s not The State. It’s a rapper.
9
We are becoming a country that no longer values the freedoms that are our heritage. Ban this, ban that, and while we're at it ban the other thing too. Ban even speech that we find unpleasant. Do we have to outlaw everything we don't like? Every time something is banned, it becomes that much easier to outlaw something else.
3
@Gene "We are becoming a country that no longer values the freedoms that are our heritage."
Part of that would also be valuing the freedoms of American daughters to not undergo reprehensible "medical" procedures that violate science, common sense and simple human decency. Don't you agree?
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@mpound
What the rapper said was reprehensible, but I do not agree that another law is the answer to one guy making a statement. Do any other American daughters need this protection, and doesn't the proposed draconian bills remind you of abortion laws in years past? It's alright to condemn speech and actions you disagree with, but knee-jerk legislation is uncalled for, in my opinion.
2
@mpound I don't think so, the State is getting totalitarian by prohibiting the virginity test (that practice)... It doesn't violate Science, and even if it does, Science means nothing. The Bible says things about immoral women. The Bible is the supreme law of human beings.
1
This is appalling and infuriating on so many levels that I don't know where to begin. And yes, it should be outlawed.
At 18 years of age, his daughter is legally an adult and should be able to refuse this sexist and brutal assault on her dignity and privacy.
Shame on this man!
64
She shouldn't have had to EVER deal with this treatment or expectation from her father. It's NONE OF HIS BUSINESS what she does with her body. It's his job to teach her about the world, give her the tools and education to deal with what's out there, and then let her be the person she's going to be. What happens between her legs is NOT for him to control, investigate, or know about. Not at 14, not at 16, and definitely not at 18.
25
@JR Democrats like you always love appealing to "sentiments" when judging things... However, his daughter didn't refuse to be subjected to the exam, so you're trying to outlaw something that's not immoral in any way...
Shame on you, because you've became immoral.
I love that TI thought that repeating all his disgusting talking points would somehow make the disgust around issue go away. We heard you the first time, but I guess, thanks for making sure there was no ambiguity about what you're subjecting your child to?
27
hope the poor girl doesnt ride horseback!
5
The note on the door made me retch. What a truly horrific excuse for a human being. I hope his daughter is okay and if not, that she’s able to get help.
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@Cheryl Tunt I'm sure she isn't okay. This is truly horrible.
14
My first thought on hearing this story was; what would he do if the doctor said that her hymen was broken?
T.I., one of the great medieval thinkers . . .
35
“You can’t tell if someone is a virgin, so how can you ban something that is not possible?”
In the same way that you can ban conversion therapy for gay children.
43
Dr. Quinlan appears to be confused. It's quite clear what the "test" is that is being banned under the proposed law. If it makes her more comfortable I suppose the legislature could put "virginity test" in quotes.
12
I'll bet T.I. doesn't worry about the virginity of his sons, if he has any. Boys will be boys, but girls will be property.
92
What’s the ICD 10 (medical diagnosis/billing code) for “virginity test”? Is it covered by insurance? Or is it strictly a cash pay procedure? Whatever the answer, please get rid of it...
13
Why should her "virginity" be such a big deal for him? Is he planning on selling her to the highest bidder?
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@Hypatia
Uh, he's her father and is concerned. While I'm not excusing what he takes his daughter through by doing this, I understand his concern. No doubt that the parents love their child although their approach is a bit off scale.
3
@Steve His concern about what? What business is it of his? The extent of his concern should be providing her with access to contraception, STD education, and a sense of her own power in decisionmaking and her personal values. Men who are concerned about "virginity" have other motives than "love."
34
@Hypatia If virginity were to be sold, I would want the girls/young women to do it. I did read about an 18 or 19 year old who tried to do that, but I think she was trying to afford college or maybe just start a discussion.
1
What century are we living in, that this procedure would even be performed, and in the US no less?
TI is a misogynist, pure and simple. His poor, poor daughter.
25
Why do some folks feel the need to display their ignorance for all to see? This fool embarrassed his family and himself trying to peacock on a radio show. He gives rappers, fathers, husbands, and human beings a bad name.
I’d say shame on him...but I doubt he has any.
29
Sounds as though this rapper has an unhealthy interest in his daughter's anatomy -- along with a lack of any trust in her ability to speak openly with her parents.
Not to mention a really pathological suspiciousness regarding young men, whom he evidently regards as predators.
33
Exceedingly Creepy. Incest adjacent.
Seriously.
37
A rapper concerned about virginity, oh please!
35
Totally dude. As a rapper, your life must be SO squeaky clean. Who would ever have thought of that??
16
Weaponizing an intimate and invasive gynecological exam for misogynistic purposes can severely damage the trust a young female places in medical ‘professionals’. Any perversion of such a delicate professional relationship deserves scrutiny. Just ask the gymnasts ‘examined’ by Dr. Larry Nassar about trust. And how awful for that young woman, that her own father perpetrated this clinical rape every birthday. Happy birthday, darling: gyno tomorrow at 0900. What a perv.
46
SOOOOooooo Saudi Arabia.
28
Doesn't this fool know your hymen get be broken while riding a bike?
4
So if the hymen isn't intact......then what does the parent do?
Start beating the girl?
Ground her for the next 3 years?
Withhold food and water?
Psychological or verbal abuse?
Any other thoughts or opinions?
30
Virginity tests for daughters represents the patriarchal pattern of treating women like herds of breeding animals. The right wing practices of governance of women’s medical care, birth control, and abortion deny girls and women the right to own their own bodies.
31
The notion of a virginity test is ridiculous and misogynistic, no doubt. Nobody is testing their sons for virginity, and while there's no physical symptom of virginity there either, it would serve close to the same purpose to test them for STD's.
Nonetheless, kids are having sex younger and more often these days, and it's definitely a concern for parents. Probably what parents need are instruction on how to have an honest enough relationship with their kids that the kids would talk to them about sex, preferably prior to engaging in it.
At least now we know that T.I.'s initials stand for Terribly Incompetent.
12
TI : Totally Insensitive
4
TI's actions were sick, deplorable and speaks to a society overly saturated with puritan ideals. I applaud the women in positions of legislative power who are moving to stop this arcane practice.
9
"A 2016 survey of 288 doctors found that one in 10 had treated patients who requested virginity tests in the previous 12 months."
When I began reading this article, I thought virginity tests were about as common as exorcisms in this country - that they were utterly rare and anachronistic. I then read the sentence above, which shocked me. I hope the NYT delves more deeply into this subject and can determine just what kind of people are doing this to their daughters in the 21st century and why they are doing it.
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@mpound I also found that statistic incredible.
4
It is none of the state's or reader's business to regulate this practice.
1
Re: "It is none of the state's or reader's business to regulate this practice..." {@No}
No competent doctor / other medical practitioner should consider / offer this one sided virginity testing, nor ('M/F/'), circumcision, nor withholding B/c, S.T.D., 'N, abortion information / otherwise, harassing the young in such grotesque fashion!
2
Why are you going after the doctor? The Dad should be questioned by child protective services for emotional abuse. Where's the trust? Is such a man treating his daughter with any dignity? Once she grows up, how can they have an equal relationship as adults?
10
Ms. Persaud's choice of words ("sanctity and purity of a female") seems pretty weird/worrying as well though.
15
The saddest part here is the lack of trust and kinship between father and daughter.
6
Good.
And by the way, rapper T.I. has to be one of the creepiest guys out there.
10
Wasn’t Lady Diana Spencer subjected to this prior to her marriage to Prince Charles? Thank God this is no longer the case for the British royal family. It’s horrific that any woman is subjected to this, anywhere in the world.
7
@Lawyermom I couldn't find anything that substantiates that.
3
Why are people so obsessed with their female children's sexual activity? I have three children - 2 girls and a boy - and I hope they all experience full and rewarding sex lives at whatever age they feel they are ready. Nothing magic happens when a person first has sex any more so than any other first experience- first airplane ride, first kiss, first root canal. The TI's of this world are living in some pre-enlightenment reality.
31
It's absolutely astounding that a father can convince himself that his daughter's hymen is any of his business—and then make it an object of public debate.
Sounds less like love, and more like ownership. And it's disgusting.
53
“You can’t tell if someone is a virgin, so how can you ban something that is not possible?” - Dr Maura Quinlan
With that said, a hymen test to establish virginity, would be malpractice.
6
What do we think of a father who publicizes so that the whole world knows that his teenage daughter has received and presumably "passed" a yearly virginity test scheduled by him? Does the publicity violate her privacy? Does this man have any sense of the feelings of a person examined for this purpose, in this case his own daughter? Why do we make such a person a celebrity who entertains our young people?
100
@blgreenie It's telling that he asked the gynocologist for "my results."
42
Do we need to ban something that is not founded in science? Medical professionals who agree to this should have their licenses removed. Period.
85
@Lissa Yes, we do. Somehow, there are gynecologists in New York who agree to do it, and we can't penalize them for doing something obtrusive and anti-science unless it is illegal.
19
I can’t think of any other medical procedure where the doctor is enlisted to serve as a tattletale. For parents who absolutely must have this bizarre lack of boundaries with their children, a private investigator might be a better choice.
45
I can: drug testing. Nowadays though you can purchase drug tests over the counter, so doctors are no longer necessary, but a lot of parents probably still ask for drug and STD testing for their kids during a physical.
4
@Dan Stackhouse But at least there is a legitimate reason for drug and STD testing, there is not for "virginity testing". As a parent, if I am concerned for my minor child's health and I have reason to believe they may have a drug problem or be suffering from an STD, it is absolutely appropriate for a medical professional to do drug testing OR for me as a parent to buy a drug test to adminster to my minor child.
Virginity testing has zero medicinal use and is an invasive and possibly painful exam. There is a huge difference in these situations.
32
Fair concern re 'legitimizing' a procedure that is not medically possible, but I think these so-called virginity exams should be considered as something along the spectrum of FGM and be legally banned. The legislation can say "so called virginity exam" instead of "virginity test", so we don't 'legitimize' it.
60
As a pediatrician, I find the fact that there are physicians who agree to do these tests appalling. It is well known that they are useless. Just as important, they are invasive, insulting, and violate doctor-patient confidentiality. There is also a good case to be made that this constitutes sexual abuse by the physician, since it is highly unlikely that these exams are truly voluntary. Not only should they be made illegal, any physician who does such "certifications" should be investigated by the state licensing board and their specialty board and considered for suspension of their license and/or specialty certification.
173
@Angela
Your comment leads me to wonder how many of this "test" are being done on under the age of consent girls.
11